From ruturaj at gmail.com Sat Dec 1 05:54:57 2007 From: ruturaj at gmail.com (Ruturaj) Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2007 11:24:57 +0530 Subject: The Great Content Migration In-Reply-To: <4750902A.5010205@redhat.com> References: <4750902A.5010205@redhat.com> Message-ID: <75a9cec80711302154p289d69e0nb84efdec8f1632c6@mail.gmail.com> > I've created an initial > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Removables page for stuff thats > in the wiki that is a good candidate for the static content. The trick > here is that, and lets be honest, much of what is on the wiki right now > is garbage. This is especially true with regards to our end users. I > think focus on fp.o should be on consolidation. Users have short > attention spans, so less is more. If we find the need to have a > higher-detail document, it should probably be in the docs realm and use > its processes. > I certainly agree, As of now a lot of documentation/stuff is spread on docs.fedoraprojet or the Wiki, No centralized structure.. Its definitely going to be a pain to centralize, manage with ACL, and integrate with current DocBook style documentation. -- regards, Ruturaj K. Vartak http://www.ruturaj.net From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 2 04:11:34 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 20:11:34 -0800 Subject: The Great Content Migration In-Reply-To: <4750902A.5010205@redhat.com> References: <4750902A.5010205@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1196568694.26101.100.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 16:35 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > (sent to both docs and websites, though not cross posted) OK, but I'm going to talk on this list and hope some of the right people are on here. Maybe it belongs on f-websites-l? I don't think we actually have any content that needs permanent moving from the wiki to docs.fp.o, so this is all just general websites stuff about fedoraproject.org. > Now that F8 shipped and F9 is on the horizon, its time to look at moving > some more of that content out of the wiki and either into > docs.fedoraproject.org and fedoraproject.org. This won't be a fun task. > > Pros: > 1) We'll have more control and process around the content that goes to > these sites. This allows us to make it more 'official'. > 2) It will be more easily translatable. > 3) Less reliance on Moin > > Cons: > 1) It raises the barrier to create these pages > 2) It adds more process > 3) Its difficult to determine what content belongs where. It doesn't have to raise the barriers or add more process or be difficult, if we had a CMS. I'd like to see us running *two* instances of Plone. The hacked up craziness for docs.fp.o that Jon is doing, and a straight-and-plain-Jane version for fp.o. Can we do that? > I've created an initial > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Removables page for stuff thats > in the wiki that is a good candidate for the static content. I'm not sure you can put anything on a list for docs.fp.o. If there is content in the wiki that is not in the Docs/Drafts/ namespace to be worked on, that is where to put it. From there it gets forked into XML. None of that is permanently moved from the wiki because the wiki is the drafting workspace for that content. > The trick > here is that, and lets be honest, much of what is on the wiki right now > is garbage. In what sense? I see a huge mix of items that are there because that has been the only place for putting non-source code content. Meeting minutes, short how-tos, scratch notes, task lists, tables, process forms and templates, etc. We could imagine replacing each of those items with a separate technology. But they aren't really garbage, in the sense of being worthless. They just belong somewhere else, ultimately. I would work on tackling each problem area. Going after 'static and formal content', such as you suggest, seems like a good one. BTW, doing a search for 'a' in a title (pulls up about 1/2 of all pages) shows a lot of content, but I would say a lot of it is actual content with a purpose. *Lots* of user pages. Yeah, let's move those out to fedorapeople.org, only use them for a personal wiki drafting namespace. > This is especially true with regards to our end users. I > think focus on fp.o should be on consolidation. Users have short > attention spans, so less is more. If we find the need to have a > higher-detail document, it should probably be in the docs realm and use > its processes. The challenge is that we will see a huge drop-off of content management from the general contributors if we force longer items off the wiki and into Plone or XML. > What do you guys think? This is what I think we want to do: 1. Call the wiki "community documentation"; define that to mean: - Very fluid - Quality and consistency of writing not guaranteed - Community needs to vet and police - Good, simple procedures in place - Every page needs an owner or the 'wiki police' are going to vaporize it 2. Move any content that does not fit that description into Plone for fp.o - Still give projects/contributors appropriate access and control - Content can have lifecycle (EOL, archiving, etc.) - Information architecture is easier In addition, consider ... a. Running MediaWiki as the "community docs" wiki engine b. Having Moin be the "docs wiki" that is used by the Fedora Docs writers and contributors for drafting content that is going to land in XML - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Sun Dec 2 04:39:57 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 22:39:57 -0600 Subject: The Great Content Migration In-Reply-To: <1196568694.26101.100.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <4750902A.5010205@redhat.com> <1196568694.26101.100.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <4752371D.5050904@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 16:35 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> (sent to both docs and websites, though not cross posted) >> > > OK, but I'm going to talk on this list and hope some of the right people > are on here. Maybe it belongs on f-websites-l? I don't think we > actually have any content that needs permanent moving from the wiki to > docs.fp.o, so this is all just general websites stuff about > fedoraproject.org. > That could very well be, I guess I had just assumed you guys had content on the wiki but having thought about it you've had a pretty solid release / authoring procedure for a while now. I guess it's just the web team thats catching up :) >> Now that F8 shipped and F9 is on the horizon, its time to look at moving >> some more of that content out of the wiki and either into >> docs.fedoraproject.org and fedoraproject.org. This won't be a fun task. >> >> Pros: >> 1) We'll have more control and process around the content that goes to >> these sites. This allows us to make it more 'official'. >> 2) It will be more easily translatable. >> 3) Less reliance on Moin >> >> Cons: >> 1) It raises the barrier to create these pages >> 2) It adds more process >> 3) Its difficult to determine what content belongs where. >> > > It doesn't have to raise the barriers or add more process or be > difficult, if we had a CMS. > > I'd like to see us running *two* instances of Plone. The hacked up > craziness for docs.fp.o that Jon is doing, and a straight-and-plain-Jane > version for fp.o. > > Can we do that? > I think it will be very unlikely to have multiple instances of Plone (one for docs and one for the web team) >> I've created an initial >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Removables page for stuff thats >> in the wiki that is a good candidate for the static content. >> >> The trick >> here is that, and lets be honest, much of what is on the wiki right now >> is garbage. >> > > In what sense? > Content duplication, multiple redirects, poor software on the backend for what we're doing, no integration with FAS, out-dated inaccurate information. I guess when I look at the docs site I see good accurate information and when I go to the wiki (and when people come to me with links from the wiki) I often feel like some (not all) of the content just is old or otherwise inaccurate. Either way, very little of it is for users and I can see a non-developer getting lost easily. For example, the tours. What's the clickstream supposed to be to get to: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours/Fedora8 There's a lot of good content there, but its not linked to from anywhere on our site except beats AFAIK: http://tinyurl.com/2glg9l One thing I'd discussed with Max and Jesse on the phone once is getting reps from all the main groups together for a few meetings before we release. This bit us this time around for a couple of things like sometimes calling it the "Gnome Desktop Spin" when in fact its just the "desktop spin". /me makes note to talk to John about that. > I see a huge mix of items that are there because that has been the only > place for putting non-source code content. Meeting minutes, short > how-tos, scratch notes, task lists, tables, process forms and templates, > etc. We could imagine replacing each of those items with a separate > technology. But they aren't really garbage, in the sense of being > worthless. They just belong somewhere else, ultimately. > That's a good point, I had thought fedorapeople would take some of this load off (and it has) but it does feel ill suited to many tasks (like meeting notes) I'm not really concerned about size so much as target content. >> What do you guys think? >> > > This is what I think we want to do: > > 1. Call the wiki "community documentation"; define that to mean: > - Very fluid > - Quality and consistency of writing not guaranteed > - Community needs to vet and police > - Good, simple procedures in place > - Every page needs an owner or the 'wiki police' are going to > vaporize it > But who's the target audience for the wiki? In the past its sort of been targeted for everyone but the content was mostly just for developers. > 2. Move any content that does not fit that description into Plone for > fp.o > - Still give projects/contributors appropriate access and control > - Content can have lifecycle (EOL, archiving, etc.) > - Information architecture is easier > > In addition, consider ... > > a. Running MediaWiki as the "community docs" wiki engine > We've looked into migrating to MediaWiki (I've considered migrating as well as just making Moin RO at some point and having people migrate the content manually. Power in numbers :) So far though both have initially seemed like a lot of work and I don't think any serious consideration / plan has been put together. > b. Having Moin be the "docs wiki" that is used by the Fedora Docs > writers and contributors for drafting content that is going to land in > XML > Once Jon's Plone instance is up will you guys need a wiki anymore at all (for your actual docs workflow and stuff?) -Mike From rlengland at verizon.net Sun Dec 2 05:13:43 2007 From: rlengland at verizon.net (Richard England) Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2007 21:13:43 -0800 Subject: Admin Guide - managing disks In-Reply-To: <474C6B9A.6000408@mkc.co.nz> References: <474C585F.1020306@mkc.co.nz> <1196188146.2138.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <474C6B9A.6000408@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <47523F07.5060904@verizon.net> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 06:48 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> >>> Hi people. >>> >>> Admin guide lists two sections related to disk management: >>> >>> 1] Working with disks and removable storage: >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Disks >>> >>> 2] Managing storage: >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/ManagingStorage >>> >>> I reckon: >>> >>> * split ''1]'' and move ''working with disks'' to ''2]'' >>> * exclude ''removable storage'' - better suited for inclusion in DUG >>> * revise the structure of ''2]'' to include: >>> i. "classical" partitioning /w tools (fdisk, parted, mkfs) >>> ii. mounting, fstab >>> iii. software RAID >>> iv. LVM >>> v. disk quotas >>> >>> Does this sound like a (cunning) plan? >>> >> We should encourage use of LVM. This is now anaconda installation >> default, but moreover it's a better choice by far when you're >> administering a system for service provision. >> >> > Yes, that's the idea - my plan is to write pretty comprehensive LVM > subsection (iv). I also want to include all this other stuff (not so > extensively), mostly as a background info and an aid to better > understanding of the LVM concept. I've found this more than useful when > introducing people to LVM. > > Vladimir > > Pardon me for intruding, here, but I hop this does not mean that you will be ignoring the "classical" partitioning methods. LVM may be the default but for many situations (non-server and laptops, notably) LVM may not be the optimal solution. Thanks for all the hard work being put in on this. ~~R From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 17:06:22 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:06:22 -0500 Subject: Admin Guide - managing disks In-Reply-To: <47523F07.5060904@verizon.net> References: <474C585F.1020306@mkc.co.nz> <1196188146.2138.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <474C6B9A.6000408@mkc.co.nz> <47523F07.5060904@verizon.net> Message-ID: <1196615182.10532.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 21:13 -0800, Richard England wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > >> On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 06:48 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > >> > >>> Hi people. > >>> > >>> Admin guide lists two sections related to disk management: > >>> > >>> 1] Working with disks and removable storage: > >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Disks > >>> > >>> 2] Managing storage: > >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/ManagingStorage > >>> > >>> I reckon: > >>> > >>> * split ''1]'' and move ''working with disks'' to ''2]'' > >>> * exclude ''removable storage'' - better suited for inclusion in DUG > >>> * revise the structure of ''2]'' to include: > >>> i. "classical" partitioning /w tools (fdisk, parted, mkfs) > >>> ii. mounting, fstab > >>> iii. software RAID > >>> iv. LVM > >>> v. disk quotas > >>> > >>> Does this sound like a (cunning) plan? > >>> > >> We should encourage use of LVM. This is now anaconda installation > >> default, but moreover it's a better choice by far when you're > >> administering a system for service provision. > >> > >> > > Yes, that's the idea - my plan is to write pretty comprehensive LVM > > subsection (iv). I also want to include all this other stuff (not so > > extensively), mostly as a background info and an aid to better > > understanding of the LVM concept. I've found this more than useful when > > introducing people to LVM. > > > > Vladimir > > > > > Pardon me for intruding, here, but I hop this does not mean that you > will be ignoring the "classical" partitioning methods. LVM may be the > default but for many situations (non-server and laptops, notably) LVM > may not be the optimal solution. > > Thanks for all the hard work being put in on this. I'm sure the writers won't ignore the old partitioning methods, but LVM is recommended for all installations, including laptops and non-servers. Using LVM makes it possible to reallocate space as you need it on any system. I have frequently made use of this capability on my laptop, where the older partitioning method would have created an enormous headache, if not inviting outright disaster. Anaconda defaults to LVM for very good reasons! ;-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 17:15:16 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:15:16 -0500 Subject: Release notes POT Message-ID: <1196615716.10532.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> New POT is available for the last few days for the Release Notes module. We plan to gather updated PO and push an update on or about December 11. We welcome any additional L10N work for the following Docs modules: release-notes readme readme-live-image readme-burning-isos about-fedora -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 17:16:46 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 12:16:46 -0500 Subject: The Great Content Migration In-Reply-To: <4752371D.5050904@redhat.com> References: <4750902A.5010205@redhat.com> <1196568694.26101.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <4752371D.5050904@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1196615806.10532.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 22:39 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 16:35 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> Now that F8 shipped and F9 is on the horizon, its time to look at moving > >> some more of that content out of the wiki and either into > >> docs.fedoraproject.org and fedoraproject.org. This won't be a fun task. > >> > >> Pros: > >> 1) We'll have more control and process around the content that goes to > >> these sites. This allows us to make it more 'official'. > >> 2) It will be more easily translatable. > >> 3) Less reliance on Moin > >> > >> Cons: > >> 1) It raises the barrier to create these pages > >> 2) It adds more process > >> 3) Its difficult to determine what content belongs where. > >> > > > > It doesn't have to raise the barriers or add more process or be > > difficult, if we had a CMS. > > > > I'd like to see us running *two* instances of Plone. The hacked up > > craziness for docs.fp.o that Jon is doing, and a straight-and-plain-Jane > > version for fp.o. > > > > Can we do that? > > > > I think it will be very unlikely to have multiple instances of Plone > (one for docs and one for the web team) I am completely talking out of my sitting apparatus here, but isn't it possible for Jon's docs workflow to be applied to only some of the content of a Plone instance -- i.e. the stuff in a Docs-type namespace? In other words, everything else, like marketing pages, front page, etc. could be put through "normal" ("default"?) workflow. I have no idea if this is so; hopefully Jon can say for sure. > >> I've created an initial > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/Removables page for stuff thats > >> in the wiki that is a good candidate for the static content. > >> > >> The trick > >> here is that, and lets be honest, much of what is on the wiki right now > >> is garbage. > >> > > > > In what sense? > > > > Content duplication, multiple redirects, poor software on the backend > for what we're doing, no integration with FAS, out-dated inaccurate > information. I guess when I look at the docs site I see good accurate > information and when I go to the wiki (and when people come to me with > links from the wiki) I often feel like some (not all) of the content > just is old or otherwise inaccurate. Either way, very little of it is > for users and I can see a non-developer getting lost easily. Biggest risk of the community contribution model -- it's easy to "fire and forget"... with the emphasis on the last half. I think everyone agrees the benefits outweigh the risk, but it does create maintenance needs. > For example, the tours. What's the clickstream supposed to be to get > to: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tours/Fedora8 Linked at the top of the release notes and the release announcement, ISTR. > There's a lot of good content there, but its not linked to from anywhere > on our site except beats AFAIK: http://tinyurl.com/2glg9l One thing > I'd discussed with Max and Jesse on the phone once is getting reps from > all the main groups together for a few meetings before we release. This > bit us this time around for a couple of things like sometimes calling it > the "Gnome Desktop Spin" when in fact its just the "desktop spin". > > /me makes note to talk to John about that. Great idea, +1. > > I see a huge mix of items that are there because that has been the only > > place for putting non-source code content. Meeting minutes, short > > how-tos, scratch notes, task lists, tables, process forms and templates, > > etc. We could imagine replacing each of those items with a separate > > technology. But they aren't really garbage, in the sense of being > > worthless. They just belong somewhere else, ultimately. > > > That's a good point, I had thought fedorapeople would take some of this > load off (and it has) but it does feel ill suited to many tasks (like > meeting notes) > I'm not really concerned about size so much as target content. That reminds me to point out that the user "personal" page content on the wiki is worthwhile to keep where it is. We can't assume every contributor is going to write his or her own HTML for fedorapeople.org if we want folks like artists, documentation writers, marketing people, and so forth to be attracted to work on the project. Those who are comfortable doing so can certainly choose their location and link as desired. > >> What do you guys think? > >> > > > > This is what I think we want to do: > > > > 1. Call the wiki "community documentation"; define that to mean: > > - Very fluid > > - Quality and consistency of writing not guaranteed > > - Community needs to vet and police > > - Good, simple procedures in place > > - Every page needs an owner or the 'wiki police' are going to > > vaporize it > > > > But who's the target audience for the wiki? In the past its sort of > been targeted for everyone but the content was mostly just for developers. We have to strike a delicate balance in Fedora, because our distribution is fast-moving. New ideas are coming up all the time and it's too much work to ask contributors to do more than write up a quick wiki page. Having a function to alert users to stale pages of theirs -- pages that haven't been updated or visited in X months -- might help. Pages that seldom change might be better suited as official documentation, but it would depend on how tight the focus of the page is, to avoid jacking up the maintenance cost for trivia pages. > > 2. Move any content that does not fit that description into Plone for > > fp.o > > - Still give projects/contributors appropriate access and control > > - Content can have lifecycle (EOL, archiving, etc.) > > - Information architecture is easier > > > > In addition, consider ... > > > > a. Running MediaWiki as the "community docs" wiki engine > > > > We've looked into migrating to MediaWiki (I've considered migrating as > well as just making Moin RO at some point and having people migrate the > content manually. Power in numbers :) So far though both have > initially seemed like a lot of work and I don't think any serious > consideration / plan has been put together. > > > b. Having Moin be the "docs wiki" that is used by the Fedora Docs > > writers and contributors for drafting content that is going to land in > > XML > > > > Once Jon's Plone instance is up will you guys need a wiki anymore at all > (for your actual docs workflow and stuff?) Not really, I guess. We should also note that there are Plone modules available for wiki functionality if they're really needed, although honestly the Plone document writing tools are as easy and inviting as the wiki tools, only better. I have no idea what the ETA of the new workflow stuff is. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 2 18:10:47 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 10:10:47 -0800 Subject: The Great Content Migration In-Reply-To: <4752371D.5050904@redhat.com> References: <4750902A.5010205@redhat.com> <1196568694.26101.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <4752371D.5050904@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1196619047.3560.20.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-12-01 at 22:39 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: > I think it will be very unlikely to have multiple instances of Plone > (one for docs and one for the web team) OK, this is probably just my ignorance of how Plone operates. I suppose our custom workflow just sits in a special space, and the regular Plone workflow can be applied to the rest of fedoraproject.org. > Content duplication, multiple redirects, poor software on the backend > for what we're doing, no integration with FAS, out-dated inaccurate > information. I guess when I look at the docs site I see good accurate > information and when I go to the wiki (and when people come to me with > links from the wiki) I often feel like some (not all) of the content > just is old or otherwise inaccurate. Either way, very little of it is > for users and I can see a non-developer getting lost easily. ... > I'm not really concerned about size so much as target content. ... > But who's the target audience for the wiki? In the past its sort of > been targeted for everyone but the content was mostly just for developers. Yep, this is the central question. Can we answer it? Is it for: * Helper contributors writing/maintaining content for end-users (#fedora, fedora-list)? * Project contributors tracking notes, processes, scratches, ideas, hacky workflow, hacky web forms, etc.? * Administrators creating hacky processes, etc.? * Content creators working on drafts and collaborating? Maybe all that can continue to happen, but we only craft a clickstream for one audience. If choosing that, I would seriously consider 'community docs for helper contributors.' That is, start to pull in all this helper docs that are all over the place into one place, and make them easy to find. Then each ProjectName/ namespace would be responsible for it's *own* clickstream from the ProjectName and ProjectName/Join pages. > Once Jon's Plone instance is up will you guys need a wiki anymore at all > (for your actual docs workflow and stuff?) For a while most likely yes. If the WYSIWYG editor in Plone spurs adoption, maybe we'll be able to move e.g. the release notes beats entirely there. The challenge is, right now, we can encourage *all* contributors (with EditGroup) to easily contribute to the release notes. If we move that to a Plone space, we'll see that dry up. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 2 18:19:39 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 10:19:39 -0800 Subject: The Great Content Migration In-Reply-To: <1196615806.10532.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4750902A.5010205@redhat.com> <1196568694.26101.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <4752371D.5050904@redhat.com> <1196615806.10532.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1196619579.3560.28.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 12:16 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 16:35 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > I am completely talking out of my sitting apparatus here, but isn't it > possible for Jon's docs workflow to be applied to only some of the > content of a Plone instance -- i.e. the stuff in a Docs-type namespace? > In other words, everything else, like marketing pages, front page, etc. > could be put through "normal" ("default"?) workflow. I have no idea if > this is so; hopefully Jon can say for sure. I think you are right and I forgot this. Our custom workflow can be applied to just a section of the Plone install, and leave the standard workflow for the rest of the content. > Biggest risk of the community contribution model -- it's easy to "fire > and forget"... with the emphasis on the last half. I think everyone > agrees the benefits outweigh the risk, but it does create maintenance > needs. ... and ... > > But who's the target audience for the wiki? In the past its sort of > > been targeted for everyone but the content was mostly just for developers. > > We have to strike a delicate balance in Fedora, because our distribution > is fast-moving. New ideas are coming up all the time and it's too much > work to ask contributors to do more than write up a quick wiki page. > Having a function to alert users to stale pages of theirs -- pages that > haven't been updated or visited in X months -- might help. Pages that > seldom change might be better suited as official documentation, but it > would depend on how tight the focus of the page is, to avoid jacking up > the maintenance cost for trivia pages. A big wiki really needs a team tasked to touching pages. One job is to decide if a page needs a maintainer (owner) and get that person to commit to it (put their name at the bottom as owner). Another is to fix inconsistencies in markup, format, etc. An important one is to create and maintain clickstreams that are useful on the front page and other sub-pages that are starting points (i.e., ProjectName/ namespaces.) > That reminds me to point out that the user "personal" page content on > the wiki is worthwhile to keep where it is. We can't assume every > contributor is going to write his or her own HTML for fedorapeople.org > if we want folks like artists, documentation writers, marketing people, > and so forth to be attracted to work on the project. Those who are > comfortable doing so can certainly choose their location and link as > desired. Good point. The wiki isn't a bad place for this content. > Not really, I guess. We should also note that there are Plone modules > available for wiki functionality if they're really needed, although > honestly the Plone document writing tools are as easy and inviting as > the wiki tools, only better. I have no idea what the ETA of the new > workflow stuff is. The part you aren't considering is that the Docs workflow is access controlled. Just anyone cannot drop in and work on it without going through the join-the-project steps. The wiki is different, culturally and programmatically. I'd suspect that most on-team writers would stop using the wiki, but we still need to be open for contributions from the entirety of the Fedora Project in places such as Docs/Beats/. The fact is, there are going to be some docs that will never leave the wiki because the subject matter expert doesn't want to work on it in another location. *Maybe* we can get them to work it as a normal workflow Plone document, but not likely to get that xhtml => xml-in-SCM that our custom workflow is for. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 2 18:48:46 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:48:46 -0500 Subject: The Great Content Migration In-Reply-To: <1196619579.3560.28.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <4750902A.5010205@redhat.com> <1196568694.26101.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <4752371D.5050904@redhat.com> <1196615806.10532.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1196619579.3560.28.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1196621326.18291.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 10:19 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 12:16 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Not really, I guess. We should also note that there are Plone modules > > available for wiki functionality if they're really needed, although > > honestly the Plone document writing tools are as easy and inviting as > > the wiki tools, only better. I have no idea what the ETA of the new > > workflow stuff is. > > The part you aren't considering is that the Docs workflow is access > controlled. Just anyone cannot drop in and work on it without going > through the join-the-project steps. The wiki is different, culturally > and programmatically. > > I'd suspect that most on-team writers would stop using the wiki, but we > still need to be open for contributions from the entirety of the Fedora > Project in places such as Docs/Beats/. > > The fact is, there are going to be some docs that will never leave the > wiki because the subject matter expert doesn't want to work on it in > another location. *Maybe* we can get them to work it as a normal > workflow Plone document, but not likely to get that xhtml => xml-in-SCM > that our custom workflow is for. Is it possible, even with our workflow, to allow the community to edit something in Plone under Docs/Beats (or whatever namespace this becomes), without the changes immediately being published? This is a question to which maybe we don't know the answer. I would love someone Plone-knowledgeable to explain it without launching into undefined jargon. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 2 21:44:36 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 13:44:36 -0800 Subject: The Great Content Migration In-Reply-To: <1196621326.18291.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4750902A.5010205@redhat.com> <1196568694.26101.100.camel@erato.phig.org> <4752371D.5050904@redhat.com> <1196615806.10532.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1196619579.3560.28.camel@erato.phig.org> <1196621326.18291.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1196631876.3560.41.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-12-02 at 13:48 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Is it possible, even with our workflow, to allow the community to edit > something in Plone under Docs/Beats (or whatever namespace this > becomes), without the changes immediately being published? Not sure if we would care about changes being immediately published to *Plone*, since it is a draft space anyway. IIRC, publishing to CVS happens outside of Plone and is an event we trigger. I believe there is a way we could get it working. It might mean having something that lives in the non-Docs workflow until it is 'done', then we move it into the Docs workflow. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 2 23:15:01 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2007 15:15:01 -0800 Subject: election calendar [RFC] Message-ID: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> Can we approve this ASAP? I like what was suggested last week for dates. Nominations Open 05 December Close 12 December Voting Open 14 December Close 24 December We have three seats open for (re)election, currently held by: John Babich (jmbabich) Pawel Sadowski (mcgiwer) Bart Couvreur (couf) These four seats are held until the next election: Paul W. Frields (pfrields) Karsten Wade (kwade) Dimitris Glezos (glezos) Robert 'Bob' Jensen (bjensen) I just updated this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Policy/FDSCoElections Voting system details may have changed, but the policy is otherwise up-to-date. One delta -- in that policy I put "last two weeks of November and May" and no language about slipping as a regular event. I mentioned one historical slip for # of nominees, to fill the ticket for the all-seven-seats that only happened one time. After this election, the new FDSCo has to hold discussions with all contributors and decide how we are cycling seats and how often we are holding elections for the future. This was a direction left by the current FDSCo after the previous round of elections: "After the next election, review election policy and how often elections should be held." Source URLs: Last election results announced: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-February/msg00164.html Nominees page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations Voting software: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/voting/ - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Mon Dec 3 02:57:30 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:57:30 +1300 Subject: Admin Guide - managing disks In-Reply-To: <47523F07.5060904@verizon.net> References: <474C585F.1020306@mkc.co.nz> <1196188146.2138.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <474C6B9A.6000408@mkc.co.nz> <47523F07.5060904@verizon.net> Message-ID: <4753709A.9010703@mkc.co.nz> Richard England wrote: >>>> >>>> * split ''1]'' and move ''working with disks'' to ''2]'' >>>> * exclude ''removable storage'' - better suited for inclusion in DUG >>>> * revise the structure of ''2]'' to include: >>>> i. "classical" partitioning /w tools (fdisk, parted, mkfs) >>>> ii. mounting, fstab >>>> iii. software RAID >>>> iv. LVM >>>> v. disk quotas >>>> >>> We should encourage use of LVM. This is now anaconda installation >>> default, but moreover it's a better choice by far when you're >>> administering a system for service provision. >>> >>> >> Yes, that's the idea - my plan is to write pretty comprehensive LVM >> subsection (iv). I also want to include all this other stuff (not so >> extensively), mostly as a background info and an aid to better >> understanding of the LVM concept. I've found this more than useful when >> introducing people to LVM. >> >> Vladimir >> >> > Pardon me for intruding, here, but I hop this does not mean that you > will be ignoring the "classical" partitioning methods. LVM may be the > default but for many situations (non-server and laptops, notably) LVM > may not be the optimal solution. > No Richard, not at all. Everything from the list proposed in my original post will be included. LVM will receive more attention though - it is the default Fedora option and it is very useful technology. Vladimir > Thanks for all the hard work being put in on this. > > ~~R > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Dec 3 18:16:24 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 3 Dec 2007 21:16:24 +0300 Subject: Useful Reference for the Upcoming FDSCo Election Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712031016g59f63fadtda24bf836df452f2@mail.gmail.com> Any Fedoran who is interested in voting in the upcoming FDSCo election, or in running for one of the positions: I recently completed converting all of the IRC logs of FDSCo (Fedora Documentation Steering Committee) meetings for the entire year of 2007 into HTML. This greatly improves their readability and usefulness in understanding the issues surrounding the Fedora Docs Project activities. You can view them at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes. You may find the 10 January 2007 meeting minutes of special interest, since it discusses the preparations for the last election in February 2007. Enjoy, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From couf at skynet.be Mon Dec 3 18:39:07 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 19:39:07 +0100 Subject: election calendar [RFC] In-Reply-To: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1196707147.31310.3.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> Op zondag 02-12-2007 om 15:15 uur [tijdzone -0800], schreef Karsten Wade: > Can we approve this ASAP? I like what was suggested last week for > dates. > > Nominations > Open 05 December > Close 12 December > > Voting > Open 14 December > Close 24 December > Looks good, time enough for everyone > We have three seats open for (re)election, currently held by: > > John Babich (jmbabich) > Pawel Sadowski (mcgiwer) > Bart Couvreur (couf) > > These four seats are held until the next election: > > Paul W. Frields (pfrields) > Karsten Wade (kwade) > Dimitris Glezos (glezos) > Robert 'Bob' Jensen (bjensen) > > I just updated this: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Policy/FDSCoElections > > Voting system details may have changed, but the policy is otherwise > up-to-date. > > One delta -- in that policy I put "last two weeks of November and May" > and no language about slipping as a regular event. I mentioned one > historical slip for # of nominees, to fill the ticket for the > all-seven-seats that only happened one time. > > After this election, the new FDSCo has to hold discussions with all > contributors and decide how we are cycling seats and how often we are > holding elections for the future. This was a direction left by the > current FDSCo after the previous round of elections: "After the next > election, review election policy and how often elections should be > held." > > Source URLs: > > Last election results announced: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-February/msg00164.html > Nominees page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations > Voting software: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/voting/ > > - Karsten One thing, I'm wondering about: do we really need 7 people aboard FDSCo? Looking at the attendees to meetings the last couple of months, we've done about almost everything with 4-5 max. Anyway, looking forward to the elections, bring em on! Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Mon Dec 3 18:28:36 2007 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:28:36 -0600 Subject: election calendar [RFC] In-Reply-To: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47544AD4.10105@fedoralinks.org> +1 Karsten Wade wrote: > Can we approve this ASAP? I like what was suggested last week for > dates. > > Nominations > Open 05 December > Close 12 December > > Voting > Open 14 December > Close 24 December > > We have three seats open for (re)election, currently held by: > > John Babich (jmbabich) > Pawel Sadowski (mcgiwer) > Bart Couvreur (couf) > > These four seats are held until the next election: > > Paul W. Frields (pfrields) > Karsten Wade (kwade) > Dimitris Glezos (glezos) > Robert 'Bob' Jensen (bjensen) > > I just updated this: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Policy/FDSCoElections > > Voting system details may have changed, but the policy is otherwise > up-to-date. > > One delta -- in that policy I put "last two weeks of November and May" > and no language about slipping as a regular event. I mentioned one > historical slip for # of nominees, to fill the ticket for the > all-seven-seats that only happened one time. > > After this election, the new FDSCo has to hold discussions with all > contributors and decide how we are cycling seats and how often we are > holding elections for the future. This was a direction left by the > current FDSCo after the previous round of elections: "After the next > election, review election policy and how often elections should be > held." > > Source URLs: > > Last election results announced: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-February/msg00164.html > Nominees page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations > Voting software: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/voting/ > > - Karsten > Robert 'Bob' Jensen http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen Fedora Unity Project http://fedoraunity.org/ From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 3 19:54:38 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 11:54:38 -0800 Subject: quote order (was [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts" by VladimirKosovac]) Message-ID: <1196711678.3560.88.camel@erato.phig.org> The correction below brings up a small thing we can be consistent about, but first we can decide how we prefer it. So let's vote! (+1 for your preference) su -c 'command -c "quoted text" foo' su -c "command -c 'quoted text' foo" In other words: " '' " ... or... ' "" ' ;-) Karsten -------- Forwarded Message -------- {{{ - su -c "/usr/sbin/useradd -c "Luke McAlister" -g primary -G additional,another -d /home/second -s /bin/tcsh luke2" + su -c "/usr/sbin/useradd -c 'Luke McAlister' -g primary -G additional,another -d /home/second -s /bin/tcsh luke2" }}} {{{ - su -c "/usr/sbin/usermod -c "Luke McAlister" luke" + su -c "/usr/sbin/usermod -c 'Luke McAlister' luke" }}} -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Dec 3 20:21:08 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:21:08 -0600 Subject: quote order (was [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts" by VladimirKosovac]) In-Reply-To: <1196711678.3560.88.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1196711678.3560.88.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47546534.5030904@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > The correction below brings up a small thing we can be consistent about, > but first we can decide how we prefer it. > > So let's vote! (+1 for your preference) > > su -c 'command -c "quoted text" foo' > su -c "command -c 'quoted text' foo" > > In other words: > > " '' " > > ... or... > > ' "" ' > > ;-) Karsten > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > {{{ > - su -c "/usr/sbin/useradd -c "Luke McAlister" -g primary -G additional,another -d /home/second -s /bin/tcsh luke2" > + su -c "/usr/sbin/useradd -c 'Luke McAlister' -g primary -G additional,another -d /home/second -s /bin/tcsh luke2" > }}} > > {{{ > - su -c "/usr/sbin/usermod -c "Luke McAlister" luke" > + su -c "/usr/sbin/usermod -c 'Luke McAlister' luke" > }} I vote for " ' ' " -Mike From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 3 20:27:11 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 12:27:11 -0800 Subject: election calendar [RFC] In-Reply-To: <1196707147.31310.3.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> References: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> <1196707147.31310.3.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <1196713631.3560.100.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 19:39 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: > One thing, I'm wondering about: do we really need 7 people aboard FDSCo? > Looking at the attendees to meetings the last couple of months, we've > done about almost everything with 4-5 max. Starting from this discussion on IRC[1], I think we do still need enough people to cover when others are not available. Otherwise, sure, it could all be done with a minimally sized leadership. However, I don't think we can so easily change these details at this point. The reason we have a review of these details/policies *after* the election is to be fair and equitable: * The three seats up for (re)election would reduce get reduced to "one", which is not encouraging for potential nominees. * Electing three people now is for a twelve month term, but after the elections the new FDSCo could vote to shorten that term to six months and hold elections for a new, smaller body in May. * Mainly, we said we would follow this pattern and switching this late is not a good time to switch; wisely, the previous FDSCo created the trigger to discuss changes to the policy for *after* this election, just to avoid (the appearance of) election improprieties. Thus, I think the entire policy is up for discussion after the election, including how long all active seats are held, etc. - Karsten [1] Bob and Bart on IRC: 10:40 < couf> jee, john seems to be pretty busy, bursting into wiki-edit mode 10:41 < EvilBob> couf: RE: 7 seats in FDSCo, I think 7 are needed so we can have a quorum with only 4 members available 10:42 < EvilBob> couf: that was one of the ideas behind the number 7 is that not everyone is going to be available. 10:43 < couf> EvilBob: right, it just struck me atm of writing :-) 10:43 < EvilBob> couf: we could trim it back to 5 but then a quorum is only 3. 10:43 < couf> indeed 10:43 < EvilBob> IMO 3 is to easy to make 10:44 < couf> I don't know, it seems that the project is going fairly well, and we're doing it with 5 right now -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From couf at skynet.be Mon Dec 3 20:39:02 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 21:39:02 +0100 Subject: election calendar [RFC] In-Reply-To: <1196713631.3560.100.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> <1196707147.31310.3.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1196713631.3560.100.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1196714342.31310.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> Op maandag 03-12-2007 om 12:27 uur [tijdzone -0800], schreef Karsten Wade: > On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 19:39 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: > > > One thing, I'm wondering about: do we really need 7 people aboard FDSCo? > > Looking at the attendees to meetings the last couple of months, we've > > done about almost everything with 4-5 max. > > Starting from this discussion on IRC[1], I think we do still need enough > people to cover when others are not available. Otherwise, sure, it > could all be done with a minimally sized leadership. > > However, I don't think we can so easily change these details at this > point. The reason we have a review of these details/policies *after* > the election is to be fair and equitable: > > * The three seats up for (re)election would reduce get reduced to "one", > which is not encouraging for potential nominees. > > * Electing three people now is for a twelve month term, but after the > elections the new FDSCo could vote to shorten that term to six months > and hold elections for a new, smaller body in May. > > * Mainly, we said we would follow this pattern and switching this late > is not a good time to switch; wisely, the previous FDSCo created the > trigger to discuss changes to the policy for *after* this election, just > to avoid (the appearance of) election improprieties. > > Thus, I think the entire policy is up for discussion after the election, > including how long all active seats are held, etc. > > - Karsten Fair play, just something we need to keep in mind later on. Carry on, Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Mon Dec 3 21:16:08 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 10:16:08 +1300 Subject: quote order (was [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts" by VladimirKosovac]) In-Reply-To: <47546534.5030904@redhat.com> References: <1196711678.3560.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <47546534.5030904@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47547218.4050905@mkc.co.nz> Mike McGrath wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: >> The correction below brings up a small thing we can be consistent about, >> but first we can decide how we prefer it. >> >> So let's vote! (+1 for your preference) >> > > > I vote for " ' ' " > > -Mike > Yes, kind of more consistent this way... -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Dec 3 21:37:47 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:37:47 -0600 Subject: quote order (was [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts" by VladimirKosovac]) In-Reply-To: <47547218.4050905@mkc.co.nz> References: <1196711678.3560.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <47546534.5030904@redhat.com> <47547218.4050905@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <4754772B.4000407@redhat.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: > >> Karsten Wade wrote: >> >>> The correction below brings up a small thing we can be consistent about, >>> but first we can decide how we prefer it. >>> >>> So let's vote! (+1 for your preference) >>> >>> > > > >> I vote for " ' ' " >> >> -Mike >> >> > Yes, kind of more consistent this way... > My main concern is how some languages escape different strings. For example in perl: #!/usr/bin/perl $p = 'some value'; print "This 'is a' string: $p"; print "\n"; print 'This "is a" string: $p'; #EOF The output is different for each, one escapes $p the other prints the value. Though, in the example given I don't think there was any issue of this. -Mike From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 3 21:53:10 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 13:53:10 -0800 Subject: quote order (was [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts" by VladimirKosovac]) In-Reply-To: <47547218.4050905@mkc.co.nz> References: <1196711678.3560.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <47546534.5030904@redhat.com> <47547218.4050905@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1196718790.3560.118.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 10:16 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > Mike McGrath wrote: > > > > I vote for " ' ' " > > > > -Mike > > > Yes, kind of more consistent this way... How so? I was thinking that choosing one and enforcing it would be the consistency. Agreed that " '' " is probably more widely used across the wiki/docs, thus making it easier to get consistency ... What I was unclear on is the way the shell interprets the order; it seems to make a difference in some cases, where we'd want to change our usage per the requirement: 13:49 < mmcgrath> quaid: it only really makes a difference when you're dealing with variables. 13:50 < mmcgrath> In which case it depends on whether you want to print $var or the value of $var Sounds like " '' " is the chosen way. I'll make that clear on the WikiEditing page. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Mon Dec 3 23:10:41 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 12:10:41 +1300 Subject: quote order (was [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts" by VladimirKosovac]) In-Reply-To: <1196718790.3560.118.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1196711678.3560.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <47546534.5030904@redhat.com> <47547218.4050905@mkc.co.nz> <1196718790.3560.118.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47548CF1.1060704@mkc.co.nz> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 10:16 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> Mike McGrath wrote: >>> I vote for " ' ' " >>> >>> -Mike >>> >> Yes, kind of more consistent this way... > > How so? > In a way that when su -c is used, the actual commands follow wrapped in double quotes (regardless of whether there is anything within the command string to escape), ie: su -c "yum install foo" seems to be used throughout the wiki, rather than su -c 'yum install foo' Vladimir > I was thinking that choosing one and enforcing it would be the > consistency. Agreed that " '' " is probably more widely used across the > wiki/docs, thus making it easier to get consistency ... > > What I was unclear on is the way the shell interprets the order; it > seems to make a difference in some cases, where we'd want to change our > usage per the requirement: > > 13:49 < mmcgrath> quaid: it only really makes a difference when you're dealing > with variables. > 13:50 < mmcgrath> In which case it depends on whether you want to print $var > or the value of $var > > Sounds like " '' " is the chosen way. I'll make that clear on the > WikiEditing page. > > - Karsten > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 3 23:31:31 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 15:31:31 -0800 Subject: quote order (was [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts" by VladimirKosovac]) In-Reply-To: <47548CF1.1060704@mkc.co.nz> References: <1196711678.3560.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <47546534.5030904@redhat.com> <47547218.4050905@mkc.co.nz> <1196718790.3560.118.camel@erato.phig.org> <47548CF1.1060704@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1196724692.3560.125.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 12:10 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > su -c "yum install foo" seems to be used throughout the wiki, rather than > > su -c 'yum install foo' Yes, it was not being sure about that consistency that made me ask. Ironically, the example in WikiEditing used: su -c 'foo' It's fixed now, with notes: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Writing_Example_Commands - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Mon Dec 3 23:42:59 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 12:42:59 +1300 Subject: quote order (was [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts" by VladimirKosovac]) In-Reply-To: <1196724692.3560.125.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1196711678.3560.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <47546534.5030904@redhat.com> <47547218.4050905@mkc.co.nz> <1196718790.3560.118.camel@erato.phig.org> <47548CF1.1060704@mkc.co.nz> <1196724692.3560.125.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47549483.2050204@mkc.co.nz> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 12:10 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > >> su -c "yum install foo" seems to be used throughout the wiki, rather than >> >> su -c 'yum install foo' > > Yes, it was not being sure about that consistency that made me ask. > Ironically, the example in WikiEditing used: > > su -c 'foo' Heh, I wonder when exactly did we start ignoring WikiEditing page? > > It's fixed now, with notes: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Writing_Example_Commands > > - Karsten > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Dec 4 01:04:15 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 17:04:15 -0800 Subject: election calendar [RFC] In-Reply-To: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <4754A78F.3090906@redhat.com> Karsten Wade said the following on 12/02/2007 03:15 PM Pacific Time: > Can we approve this ASAP? I like what was suggested last week for > dates. > > Nominations > Open 05 December > Close 12 December > > Voting > Open 14 December > Close 24 December > I added to the schedule http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-docs-tasks.html John From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 4 02:33:30 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:33:30 -0800 Subject: election calendar [RFC] In-Reply-To: <4754A78F.3090906@redhat.com> References: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> <4754A78F.3090906@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1196735610.3560.139.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 17:04 -0800, John Poelstra wrote: > Karsten Wade said the following on 12/02/2007 03:15 PM Pacific Time: > > Can we approve this ASAP? I like what was suggested last week for > > dates. > > > > Nominations > > Open 05 December > > Close 12 December > > > > Voting > > Open 14 December > > Close 24 December > > > I added to the schedule > http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-docs-tasks.html Thanks. We seem to have a consensus on these dates, according to our lightweight consensus model (all + no -). - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From noriko at redhat.com Wed Dec 5 00:52:38 2007 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:52:38 +1000 Subject: Request to withdraw outdated tqsg translated version In-Reply-To: <1196446210.26101.19.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <474F55AA.5090904@redhat.com> <1196427292.18165.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1196446210.26101.19.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <4755F656.2090005@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 07:54 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> I wonder if it might make sense to have some sort of notice on the index >> page stating what the current released version is, to avoid confusion. >> However, that wouldn't be as much help if someone links directly to a >> locale-specific document. In other words, we could put a notice here: >> >> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/index.html >> >> But if someone linked to: >> >> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/ja/index.html >> >> ...they'd never see the notice. Probably still worthwhile, I would >> think. >> >> I'm not too keen on constantly removing and adding documents from CVS, >> which could end up being a maintenance nightmare, not to mention a major >> abuse of SCM functionality. Does anyone have some better ideas for >> marking these documents to make sure that readers know they're looking >> at something out of date? > > Two thoughts: > > 1. Put a notice onthe t-q-s-g/index.html that says what is updated and > what is not; > 1.1 Put a similar notice on the top of all translated guides that refers > to the canonical index.html as a reference to see what is up-to-date of > translations > 1.2 This is a manual process, so sucks for that. > 1.3 This could be applied to other translated documents. > > 2. Another manual process would be to populate all out-of-date > translations with a watermark image "Translation Out of Date" > 2.1 This could be made automagic, that is, when the POT file in CVS is > changed for a guide, all translated guides get the watermark until the > corresponding PO file is updated. This would be eye catching, also 'automagic' sounds charming :) So that the idea#1's notice can be simple and static?! noriko > >> /me notes ruefully that this would probably be easy in Plone. > > Most likely, since this is an essential CMS need. > > - Karsten > From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 03:55:50 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:55:50 -0500 Subject: Request to withdraw outdated tqsg translated version In-Reply-To: <4755F656.2090005@redhat.com> References: <474F55AA.5090904@redhat.com> <1196427292.18165.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1196446210.26101.19.camel@erato.phig.org> <4755F656.2090005@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1196826950.23366.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-12-05 at 10:52 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-11-30 at 07:54 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > >> I wonder if it might make sense to have some sort of notice on the index > >> page stating what the current released version is, to avoid confusion. > >> However, that wouldn't be as much help if someone links directly to a > >> locale-specific document. In other words, we could put a notice here: > >> > >> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/index.html > >> > >> But if someone linked to: > >> > >> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/ja/index.html > >> > >> ...they'd never see the notice. Probably still worthwhile, I would > >> think. > >> > >> I'm not too keen on constantly removing and adding documents from CVS, > >> which could end up being a maintenance nightmare, not to mention a major > >> abuse of SCM functionality. Does anyone have some better ideas for > >> marking these documents to make sure that readers know they're looking > >> at something out of date? > > > > Two thoughts: > > > > 1. Put a notice onthe t-q-s-g/index.html that says what is updated and > > what is not; > > 1.1 Put a similar notice on the top of all translated guides that refers > > to the canonical index.html as a reference to see what is up-to-date of > > translations > > 1.2 This is a manual process, so sucks for that. > > 1.3 This could be applied to other translated documents. I was thinking about this a little bit, and this process might be achievable using XSLT. I'm not sure exactly how to implement it, but there may be a way to do a conditional during the make(1) procedure for the "fdp-info-${LANG}" step that injects some specific XML with this information. Might be more work than it's worth, or it might be a lot of fun to figure out; or it might be more time than I've got. I will see if I get some time to play with this soon-ish. > > 2. Another manual process would be to populate all out-of-date > > translations with a watermark image "Translation Out of Date" > > 2.1 This could be made automagic, that is, when the POT file in CVS is > > changed for a guide, all translated guides get the watermark until the > > corresponding PO file is updated. > This would be eye catching, also 'automagic' sounds charming :) > So that the idea#1's notice can be simple and static?! It seems to me that the logic behind doing this would be extremely hacky. I think trying to solve the problem with a pure XML solution may be the right way to go. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 5 03:47:43 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:47:43 -0500 Subject: election calendar [RFC] In-Reply-To: <1196735610.3560.139.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1196637301.3560.54.camel@erato.phig.org> <4754A78F.3090906@redhat.com> <1196735610.3560.139.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1196826463.23366.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 18:33 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2007-12-03 at 17:04 -0800, John Poelstra wrote: > > Karsten Wade said the following on 12/02/2007 03:15 PM Pacific Time: > > > Can we approve this ASAP? I like what was suggested last week for > > > dates. > > > > > > Nominations > > > Open 05 December > > > Close 12 December > > > > > > Voting > > > Open 14 December > > > Close 24 December > > > > > I added to the schedule > > http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-docs-tasks.html > > Thanks. We seem to have a consensus on these dates, according to our > lightweight consensus model (all + no -). I'm late to the party because of other commitments, but +1 here FWIW. Note the close of voting on December 24 (Christmas Eve) makes it unlikely that there will be many people around to do any posting of vote totals. As long as everyone's OK with a short lag, seems fine to me. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 5 18:53:06 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:53:06 -0800 Subject: quote order (was [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts" by VladimirKosovac]) In-Reply-To: <47549483.2050204@mkc.co.nz> References: <1196711678.3560.88.camel@erato.phig.org> <47546534.5030904@redhat.com> <47547218.4050905@mkc.co.nz> <1196718790.3560.118.camel@erato.phig.org> <47548CF1.1060704@mkc.co.nz> <1196724692.3560.125.camel@erato.phig.org> <47549483.2050204@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1196880787.25124.11.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 12:42 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Heh, I wonder when exactly did we start ignoring WikiEditing page? Someone has actually read that thing enough to start ignoring it? That is one document that could use some trimming. The main parts we use are just two sections, combined with our own guidelines to keep things DocBook ready: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Marking_Technical_Terms http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Writing_Example_Commands http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jaredsmith at jaredsmith.net Wed Dec 5 19:20:31 2007 From: jaredsmith at jaredsmith.net (Jared Smith) Date: Wed, 05 Dec 2007 14:20:31 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: fop built] In-Reply-To: <1196300790.6350.1.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <474D1082.8040809@redhat.com> <1196300790.6350.1.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1196882431.2847.61.camel@hockey.jaredsmith.net> On Wed, 2007-11-28 at 17:46 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > Unleash the flying monkeys! > > I'll see about getting a Rawhide instance going in the next few weeks > for testing. Hereby letting all others interested in quality PDF > production from DocBook, here's a way to lend a hand - test the new FOP > build. Hot diggity dog! I finally got around to trying this out today, and I have to say this is a beautiful thing! Everything just worked! Wonderful! To give you some background, I've spent the past several weeks working on Docbook/FOP stuff for another project, and been fighting the whole Java stack the entire time. Karsten and Thomas (and anyone else who worked on this), please contact me offline and I'll find a way to buy you a pizza. (Now if I could just get this other project finished, so that I can work on Fedora docs...) -Jared Smith From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 7 14:22:37 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:22:37 +0900 Subject: DUG Message-ID: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, Can we come to a consensus on what else needs to be done to make this doc a reality. At the moment it's in pieces which is fine and people are working on it. I'm just curious as to what topics need to be covered in order to make it useful to the end user. There is (IMO) some overlap between the Admin guide and the Desktop one and there will always be so with that thought should we transfer some topics across? Would love a target in place makes things easier to say yup completed edit ready etc. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 7 14:37:02 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 23:37:02 +0900 Subject: Daily Package Message-ID: <1197038222.14595.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey All, There is a website linked to fedora weekly news called daily package. There are a few packages there that might help the admin guide. Such as the example linked. If people are looking at the admin guide or working on it there might be some added info for you guys/gals :) Cheers, Marc http://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/index.php?/archives/160-System-Recovery-Week-Recovering-RAID-Devices.html From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 7 18:48:00 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 21:48:00 +0300 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712071048w69641f92u9ced467292f42c05@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 7, 2007 5:22 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey all, > > Can we come to a consensus on what else needs to be done to make this > doc a reality. > To kick off the conversation, let's keep in mind what is the main purpose of the DUG. 1. The DUG is first of all a DESKTOP user guide. The emphasis is on GUI apps vs. CLI apps. So almost all apps are GUI apps rather than detailed explanations of apps and/or servers running in a terminal session. The beauty of Linux is the tremendous number of choices of apps to use. Chris Tyler's Daily Packages site does an excellent job of uncovering lesser-known apps of great value. 2. Our aim is the opposite: to explain to the new Fedora user what the mainstream apps are. There are two types of apps: common and desktop manager-specific apps. 2a. Common apps are Mozilla Firefox, OpenOffice.org, etc. Most of these are not only available for Linux, but other OS platforms like Windows and Solaris. 2b. Desktop manager-specific apps are apps considered part of the GNOME, KDE and Xfce desktop manager projects, for instance. > At the moment it's in pieces which is fine and people are working on it. > I'm just curious as to what topics need to be covered in order to make > it useful to the end user. See above. > There is (IMO) some overlap between the Admin guide and the Desktop one > and there will always be so with that thought should we transfer some > topics across? Keep in mind who are the target audiences for the Admin and Desktop guides. The Admin guide is intended to help sys admins who maintain Fedora Linux systems running servers such as HTTP, FTP, IMAP/POP3, etc., among other tasks. The DUG has already been pretty well-explained above. Most new users see GNOME apps first, then some KDE apps, and perhaps explore Xfce for use with older, lower-memory machines. > > Would love a target in place makes things easier to say yup completed > edit ready etc. Do you have something like http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Contributors in mind? I can make one up for DUG if you like. Thanks for being interested in contributing to the DUG and let's get a Fedora 8 version out before Fedora 9 is released. :-) Best Regards, John Babich Lead writer, DUG From kwade at redhat.com Sat Dec 8 00:18:10 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 16:18:10 -0800 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:22 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > There is (IMO) some overlap between the > Admin guide and the Desktop one and there will always be so with that > thought should we transfer some topics across? What is the overlap you see? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 8 00:27:17 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 09:27:17 +0900 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 16:18 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:22 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > There is (IMO) some overlap between the > > Admin guide and the Desktop one and there will always be so with that > > thought should we transfer some topics across? > > What is the overlap you see? > > - Karsten Yum and user administration I would think? Since there is/was system-config-users which is the gui side but it's possibly an admin tool. Samba for file sharing. There are gui tools as well but setting up the config. Associated selinux details. I'm picking stuff that I consider to be important to the average desktop at the moment :) Cheers, Marc From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Dec 8 01:09:08 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:09:08 +1300 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 16:18 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: >> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:22 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>> There is (IMO) some overlap between the >>> Admin guide and the Desktop one and there will always be so with that >>> thought should we transfer some topics across? >> What is the overlap you see? >> >> - Karsten > > Yum and user administration I would think? > > Since there is/was system-config-users which is the gui side but it's > possibly an admin tool. I don't think this stuff is out-of-place in a DUG. To teach people new to Fedora how to use PC effectively, basic system administration should be included. Probably just a matter of figuring the right amount of information. Vladimir > > Samba for file sharing. There are gui tools as well but setting up the > config. Associated selinux details. > > I'm picking stuff that I consider to be important to the average desktop > at the moment :) > > Cheers, > > Marc > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 02:20:58 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 07 Dec 2007 21:20:58 -0500 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:09 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 16:18 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > >> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:22 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >>> There is (IMO) some overlap between the > >>> Admin guide and the Desktop one and there will always be so with that > >>> thought should we transfer some topics across? > >> What is the overlap you see? > >> > >> - Karsten > > > > Yum and user administration I would think? > > > > Since there is/was system-config-users which is the gui side but it's > > possibly an admin tool. > > I don't think this stuff is out-of-place in a DUG. To teach people new > to Fedora how to use PC effectively, basic system administration should > be included. Probably just a matter of figuring the right amount of > information. John posted earlier with reasons why these subjects all belong in the Administration Guide, not the DUG. If someone needs to "administer" their system to make basic use of it, that's a *bug*. Whether a tool is GUI or not has no bearing on it being included in one guide or another; in fact, a good case could be made that almost *nothing* non-GUI should be in the Desktop User Guide. The AG should, in fact, prefer GUI tools to hand-editing configuration files whenever possible. This is part of the "best practices" for which we should shoot. Where the GUI tools are deficient, the basic use cases should be the first covered, using the GUI tools, and the more advanced or infrequent use cases requiring other admin interactions should follow. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 8 05:34:28 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:34:28 +0900 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 21:20 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:09 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 16:18 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > >> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:22 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>> There is (IMO) some overlap between the > > >>> Admin guide and the Desktop one and there will always be so with that > > >>> thought should we transfer some topics across? > > >> What is the overlap you see? > > >> > > >> - Karsten > > > > > > Yum and user administration I would think? > > > > > > Since there is/was system-config-users which is the gui side but it's > > > possibly an admin tool. > > > > I don't think this stuff is out-of-place in a DUG. To teach people new > > to Fedora how to use PC effectively, basic system administration should > > be included. Probably just a matter of figuring the right amount of > > information. > > John posted earlier with reasons why these subjects all belong in the > Administration Guide, not the DUG. If someone needs to "administer" > their system to make basic use of it, that's a *bug*. Whether a tool is > GUI or not has no bearing on it being included in one guide or another; > in fact, a good case could be made that almost *nothing* non-GUI should > be in the Desktop User Guide. > > The AG should, in fact, prefer GUI tools to hand-editing configuration > files whenever possible. This is part of the "best practices" for which > we should shoot. Where the GUI tools are deficient, the basic use cases > should be the first covered, using the GUI tools, and the more advanced > or infrequent use cases requiring other admin interactions should > follow. The question then is why yum should not be covered in the DUG. An example use case: You have yum-updatesd and to update you need to disable the cdrom update since it won't find it. Those are all gui tools and are part of yum. You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a server set up would be an administration part. I'm not trying to be pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is different. Desktop is everything a desktop user would require including samba, yum, desktop sharing etc. Administration network login, advanced samba, advanced yum such as setting up local repo's etc. The advanced stuff. Am I off on my own? If so can I have some guidance so I don't add stuff that is technically not considered appropriate for a desktop user? Cheers, Marc From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 05:42:10 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 00:42:10 -0500 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197092530.9342.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:34 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 21:20 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:09 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > > > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 16:18 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:22 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > >>> There is (IMO) some overlap between the > > > >>> Admin guide and the Desktop one and there will always be so with that > > > >>> thought should we transfer some topics across? > > > >> What is the overlap you see? > > > >> > > > >> - Karsten > > > > > > > > Yum and user administration I would think? > > > > > > > > Since there is/was system-config-users which is the gui side but it's > > > > possibly an admin tool. > > > > > > I don't think this stuff is out-of-place in a DUG. To teach people new > > > to Fedora how to use PC effectively, basic system administration should > > > be included. Probably just a matter of figuring the right amount of > > > information. > > > > John posted earlier with reasons why these subjects all belong in the > > Administration Guide, not the DUG. If someone needs to "administer" > > their system to make basic use of it, that's a *bug*. Whether a tool is > > GUI or not has no bearing on it being included in one guide or another; > > in fact, a good case could be made that almost *nothing* non-GUI should > > be in the Desktop User Guide. > > > > The AG should, in fact, prefer GUI tools to hand-editing configuration > > files whenever possible. This is part of the "best practices" for which > > we should shoot. Where the GUI tools are deficient, the basic use cases > > should be the first covered, using the GUI tools, and the more advanced > > or infrequent use cases requiring other admin interactions should > > follow. > > The question then is why yum should not be covered in the DUG. An > example use case: You have yum-updatesd and to update you need to > disable the cdrom update since it won't find it. Those are all gui > tools and are part of yum. Does installing from a DVD automatically enable the DVD as a repo? I honestly don't know, since I haven't used a DVD to install in a very long time. The act of updating a system is one area I would say deserves attention in the DUG and the AG. That area of overlap, to me, would be understandable. > You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a > server set up would be an administration part. I'm not trying to be > pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is > different. Setting up file sharing in the DUG is using System -> Preferences -> Network -> Personal File Sharing. Anything beyond that is AG material. > Desktop is everything a desktop user would require including samba, yum, > desktop sharing etc. As far as Samba goes, all a DUG audience member does is Places -> Network. Beyond that is AG material. > Administration network login, advanced samba, advanced yum such as > setting up local repo's etc. The advanced stuff. Sure, these are all use cases for the AG. > Am I off on my own? If so can I have some guidance so I don't add stuff > that is technically not considered appropriate for a desktop user? That's exactly what this list and this discussion are for, and I for one sincerely applaud you for using it. A lot of people are driven to handle all of this stuff on IRC, which is really a very poor choice for discussion that you want to filter out to the larger community. We love talking on IRC and I think it's a great place for quick help or to discover new issues, but to really get the issues pinned down with details requires thoughtful discussion, and the mailing list is best for that. Again, and in all sincerity, thank you for continuing this dialogue! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 05:50:17 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 15:50:17 +1000 Subject: Daily Package In-Reply-To: <1197038222.14595.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197038222.14595.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712072150j11f29600sead48ece87ed0c7b@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 8, 2007 12:37 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey All, > > There is a website linked to fedora weekly news called daily package. > There are a few packages there that might help the admin guide. Such as > the example linked. > > If people are looking at the admin guide or working on it there might be > some added info for you guys/gals :) > > Cheers, > > > Marc > > http://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/index.php?/archives/160-System-Recovery-Week-Recovering-RAID-Devices.html Hi Marc, That is an excellent site. Thanks for sharing! Regards, Murray. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 8 05:54:55 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:54:55 +0900 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1197092530.9342.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092530.9342.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197093295.14595.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 00:42 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:34 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 21:20 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:09 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > > > > > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > > On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 16:18 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > > >> On Fri, 2007-12-07 at 23:22 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > >>> There is (IMO) some overlap between the > > > > >>> Admin guide and the Desktop one and there will always be so with that > > > > >>> thought should we transfer some topics across? > > > > >> What is the overlap you see? > > > > >> > > > > >> - Karsten > > > > > > > > > > Yum and user administration I would think? > > > > > > > > > > Since there is/was system-config-users which is the gui side but it's > > > > > possibly an admin tool. > > > > > > > > I don't think this stuff is out-of-place in a DUG. To teach people new > > > > to Fedora how to use PC effectively, basic system administration should > > > > be included. Probably just a matter of figuring the right amount of > > > > information. > > > > > > John posted earlier with reasons why these subjects all belong in the > > > Administration Guide, not the DUG. If someone needs to "administer" > > > their system to make basic use of it, that's a *bug*. Whether a tool is > > > GUI or not has no bearing on it being included in one guide or another; > > > in fact, a good case could be made that almost *nothing* non-GUI should > > > be in the Desktop User Guide. > > > > > > The AG should, in fact, prefer GUI tools to hand-editing configuration > > > files whenever possible. This is part of the "best practices" for which > > > we should shoot. Where the GUI tools are deficient, the basic use cases > > > should be the first covered, using the GUI tools, and the more advanced > > > or infrequent use cases requiring other admin interactions should > > > follow. > > > > The question then is why yum should not be covered in the DUG. An > > example use case: You have yum-updatesd and to update you need to > > disable the cdrom update since it won't find it. Those are all gui > > tools and are part of yum. > > Does installing from a DVD automatically enable the DVD as a repo? I > honestly don't know, since I haven't used a DVD to install in a very > long time. The act of updating a system is one area I would say > deserves attention in the DUG and the AG. That area of overlap, to me, > would be understandable. > I would assume it does since on the fedoraforum there was a severe amount of complaints about having to put a cd/dvd. The purpose of it is a feature since you can now upgrade the fedora version using yum and a dvd which is a huge plus. The problem arises is that the cd/dvd repo itself is usually enabled by default after this. An update fails because it can't find the cd/dvd repo since your cd/dvd is not in the drive so it can't find it so the update fails. That is possibly a bug however I'm not sure of the status of that bug or even if it is considered a bug. The simplest method to fix it is disabling the repo and then voila yum-updatesd works by default updating the software. I hope thats clear because I personally have never experienced it since I've always just used yum upgrade and edited the config files manually. > > You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a > > server set up would be an administration part. I'm not trying to be > > pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is > > different. > > Setting up file sharing in the DUG is using System -> Preferences -> > Network -> Personal File Sharing. Anything beyond that is AG material. > Has anyone got that to work? I've never actually got it to function properly. > > Desktop is everything a desktop user would require including samba, yum, > > desktop sharing etc. > > As far as Samba goes, all a DUG audience member does is Places -> > Network. Beyond that is AG material. > > > Administration network login, advanced samba, advanced yum such as > > setting up local repo's etc. The advanced stuff. > > Sure, these are all use cases for the AG. > > > Am I off on my own? If so can I have some guidance so I don't add stuff > > that is technically not considered appropriate for a desktop user? > > That's exactly what this list and this discussion are for, and I for one > sincerely applaud you for using it. A lot of people are driven to > handle all of this stuff on IRC, which is really a very poor choice for > discussion that you want to filter out to the larger community. We love > talking on IRC and I think it's a great place for quick help or to > discover new issues, but to really get the issues pinned down with > details requires thoughtful discussion, and the mailing list is best for > that. Again, and in all sincerity, thank you for continuing this > dialogue! > I've got a lot of questions like this which is the essence of the original email. Can we put together a list of what topics should be covered and to what limits each category should move to. Then we have a target to move towards? Cheers, Marc From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 06:02:19 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:02:19 -0500 Subject: Daily Package In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712072150j11f29600sead48ece87ed0c7b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1197038222.14595.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <95f1114b0712072150j11f29600sead48ece87ed0c7b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1197093739.9342.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 15:50 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > On Dec 8, 2007 12:37 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Hey All, > > > > There is a website linked to fedora weekly news called daily package. > > There are a few packages there that might help the admin guide. Such as > > the example linked. > > > > If people are looking at the admin guide or working on it there might be > > some added info for you guys/gals :) > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Marc > > > > http://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/index.php?/archives/160-System-Recovery-Week-Recovering-RAID-Devices.html > > Hi Marc, > > That is an excellent site. Thanks for sharing! In case some of you may not be using it, Mugshot is an excellent way to pick up very interesting site information as well. Run: su -c "yum -y install mughost" If you don't see the Mugshot icon appear in your notification area, from the main menu, run Applications -> Internet -> Mugshot. Once you've created an account, join the "Fedora" group for lots of cool datafeeds from your Fedora friends! For anyone interested in getting a little work done using Mughost (wha? huh?), there is a Fedora Docs Bugs feed in there somewhere... oh yes, here it is: http://mugshot.org/group?who=MyslpM0YCsGJ9Q -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 06:19:54 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 01:19:54 -0500 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1197093295.14595.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092530.9342.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197093295.14595.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197094794.9342.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:54 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Does installing from a DVD automatically enable the DVD as a repo? I > > honestly don't know, since I haven't used a DVD to install in a very > > long time. The act of updating a system is one area I would say > > deserves attention in the DUG and the AG. That area of overlap, to me, > > would be understandable. > > > I would assume it does since on the fedoraforum there was a severe > amount of complaints about having to put a cd/dvd. Before documenting it, whoever is writing that section should definitely confirm the behavior first. > The purpose of it is a feature since you can now upgrade the fedora version > using yum and a dvd which is a huge plus. The problem arises is that the > cd/dvd repo itself is usually enabled by default after this. > > An update fails because it can't find the cd/dvd repo since your cd/dvd > is not in the drive so it can't find it so the update fails. > That is possibly a bug however I'm not sure of the status of that bug or > even if it is considered a bug. > > The simplest method to fix it is disabling the repo and then voila > yum-updatesd works by default updating the software. > > I hope thats clear because I personally have never experienced it > since I've always just used yum upgrade and edited the config files manually. It is clear, but editing the configuration files manually is not the appropriate solution for the DUG. Instead, the documentation should indicate how the desktop user can use the Edit Repositories option in pup and pirut. Again, focus on ease of use and GUI desktop usage wherever possible. > > > You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a > > > server set up would be an administration part. I'm not trying to be > > > pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is > > > different. > > > > Setting up file sharing in the DUG is using System -> Preferences -> > > Network -> Personal File Sharing. Anything beyond that is AG material. > > > > Has anyone got that to work? I've never actually got it to function > properly. It works if the firewall is disabled. This is not ideal, and I would call this a bug unless both of us are doing something very wrong. I thought one of the points of ConsoleKit was to be able to punch a hole in the firewall for personal files sharing. In the meantime, I would simply document the behavior indicating that the user should consult the AG for firewall configuration info. > I've got a lot of questions like this which is the essence of the > original email. Can we put together a list of what topics should be > covered and to what limits each category should move to. Then we have a > target to move towards? Unfortunately I don't have the cycles to do it, but you are welcome and encouraged to start such a list, and float it to the mailing list for discussion. I think that's a very thoughtful process, and I'm sure others will pitch in their ideas. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 8 06:32:58 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:32:58 +0900 Subject: Daily Package In-Reply-To: <1197093739.9342.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197038222.14595.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <95f1114b0712072150j11f29600sead48ece87ed0c7b@mail.gmail.com> <1197093739.9342.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197095579.14595.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 01:02 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 15:50 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > > On Dec 8, 2007 12:37 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > Hey All, > > > > > > There is a website linked to fedora weekly news called daily package. > > > There are a few packages there that might help the admin guide. Such as > > > the example linked. > > > > > > If people are looking at the admin guide or working on it there might be > > > some added info for you guys/gals :) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > http://dailypackage.fedorabook.com/index.php?/archives/160-System-Recovery-Week-Recovering-RAID-Devices.html > > > > Hi Marc, > > > > That is an excellent site. Thanks for sharing! > > In case some of you may not be using it, Mugshot is an excellent way to > pick up very interesting site information as well. Run: > > su -c "yum -y install mughost" > > If you don't see the Mugshot icon appear in your notification area, from > the main menu, run Applications -> Internet -> Mugshot. Once you've > created an account, join the "Fedora" group for lots of cool datafeeds > from your Fedora friends! For anyone interested in getting a little > work done using Mughost (wha? huh?), there is a Fedora Docs Bugs feed in > there somewhere... oh yes, here it is: > > http://mugshot.org/group?who=MyslpM0YCsGJ9Q > I didn't know that group was up there I've just joined it :) Cheers, Marc From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 08:38:28 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 11:38:28 +0300 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1197094794.9342.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092530.9342.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197093295.14595.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197094794.9342.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712080038u101d99b0qdb4767dba7d3e452@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 8, 2007 9:19 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:54 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > I've got a lot of questions like this which is the essence of the > > original email. Can we put together a list of what topics should be > > covered and to what limits each category should move to. Then we have a > > target to move towards? > > Unfortunately I don't have the cycles to do it, but you are welcome and > encouraged to start such a list, and float it to the mailing list for > discussion. I think that's a very thoughtful process, and I'm sure > others will pitch in their ideas. > This is a rather lengthy reply to the ongoing discussion for the benefit of the newer contributors to the DUG. First of all, let me say it's great that the DUG is getting some needed attention from volunteers like you, Marc. Having said that, let's make sure we avoid "re-inventing the wheel". THE PAST Hence, here is some brief background information on the DUG: There is a published Fedora Core 6 (FC6) version of the DUG, announced on Sunday, 18 February of this year (see http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2007-February/msg00008.html). You can view the FC6 DUG at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/desktop-user-guide/en/. This is the immutable verson rendered from DocBook XML source. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first edition of the DUG. Back in FC6, the task was simplified by the fact that GNOME was the default desktop manager for Fedora, even though there's been an active KDE community in Fedora for some time. Although generally well-received, the FC6 DUG was severely criticized by a few individuals as too "GNOME-centric". For various reasons, a Fedora 7 (F7) version was never published. Fedora 7 introduced the Live CDs, including a KDE Live CD. Obviously, the DUG has to be expanded to include KDE apps as well as GNOME apps. I personally use Xfce on one of my laptops, so I am sensitive to the fact that there are other Xfce users like me out there in Fedora userland. THE PRESENT The goal now is to get a Fedora 8 version of the DUG out before Fedora 9 ships. KDE apps will definitely be included, Xfce apps time permitting. As far as the boundary between the DUG and the Administration Guide (AG), I agree with Paul that the GUI/non-GUI distinction has very little relevance. We should always point to the GUI apps first, except in those rare cases where GUI apps don't exist or don't provide the required functionality. I think the main distinction is the target audience. The DUG's audience is the first-time or less-experienced user who wants to perform common tasks like web-browsing, creating simple spreadsheets and text documents. The AG's audience is the more-experienced person who wants to manage a group of users with various access levels, or set up and administer servers such as HTTP/FTP, IMAP/POP3, authentication, proxy, DHCP, etc. The current table of contents for the FC6 DUG is the general outline and is still valid today. THE FUTURE However, some changes definitely need to be made (some have already been completed): 1. GAIM has been replaced by Pidgin (already done). 2. Codec Buddy is now shipping with F8 (requires a rewrite of the multimedia section). 3. Improvements have been made to NetworkManager (may be more appropriate for AG). 4. Include default KDE apps (some work had been done). 5. Include default Xfce apps (placeholders for the desktop created, no apps added yet AFAIK). 6. Other non-default apps can be added sparingly (alternate CD/DVD burner K3B a good example). If a task-assignment table similar to the one for the AG (see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Contributors) is useful, let me know and I will make one up for the DUG. Best Regards, John Babich Lead writer, Fedora Desktop User Guide From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 09:42:33 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 19:42:33 +1000 Subject: NSA guide to securing Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 Message-ID: <95f1114b0712080142p79055a4bs9c1e0a8d176c9457@mail.gmail.com> Hi, There is a fantastic "Guide to the Secure Configuration of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5" PDF available here: http://www.nsa.gov/snac/downloads_redhat.cfm?MenuID=scg10.3.1.1 It looks like it would be an invaluable resource for research for the Fedora Admin Guide. Among many other things, it covers IMAP/POP3, DNS, Web, Samba, Proxies, LDAP etc. Kind Regards, Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Dec 8 11:14:31 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 00:14:31 +1300 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1197094794.9342.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092530.9342.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197093295.14595.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197094794.9342.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <475A7C97.5080007@mkc.co.nz> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:54 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>> Does installing from a DVD automatically enable the DVD as a repo? I >>> honestly don't know, since I haven't used a DVD to install in a very >>> long time. The act of updating a system is one area I would say >>> deserves attention in the DUG and the AG. That area of overlap, to me, >>> would be understandable. >>> >> I would assume it does since on the fedoraforum there was a severe >> amount of complaints about having to put a cd/dvd. > > Before documenting it, whoever is writing that section should definitely > confirm the behavior first. I've tried two different installs - DVD and http, in both cases install source ends up on the list of pre-selected repositories. If DVD install is used and DVD not inserted post-install, pup and pirut fail until ''install media"" repo is de-selected. Vladimir > >> The purpose of it is a feature since you can now upgrade the fedora version >> using yum and a dvd which is a huge plus. The problem arises is that the >> cd/dvd repo itself is usually enabled by default after this. >> >> An update fails because it can't find the cd/dvd repo since your cd/dvd >> is not in the drive so it can't find it so the update fails. >> That is possibly a bug however I'm not sure of the status of that bug or >> even if it is considered a bug. >> >> The simplest method to fix it is disabling the repo and then voila >> yum-updatesd works by default updating the software. >> >> I hope thats clear because I personally have never experienced it >> since I've always just used yum upgrade and edited the config files manually. > > It is clear, but editing the configuration files manually is not the > appropriate solution for the DUG. Instead, the documentation should > indicate how the desktop user can use the Edit Repositories option in > pup and pirut. Again, focus on ease of use and GUI desktop usage > wherever possible. > >>>> You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a >>>> server set up would be an administration part. I'm not trying to be >>>> pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is >>>> different. >>> Setting up file sharing in the DUG is using System -> Preferences -> >>> Network -> Personal File Sharing. Anything beyond that is AG material. >>> >> Has anyone got that to work? I've never actually got it to function >> properly. > > It works if the firewall is disabled. This is not ideal, and I would > call this a bug unless both of us are doing something very wrong. I > thought one of the points of ConsoleKit was to be able to punch a hole > in the firewall for personal files sharing. In the meantime, I would > simply document the behavior indicating that the user should consult the > AG for firewall configuration info. > >> I've got a lot of questions like this which is the essence of the >> original email. Can we put together a list of what topics should be >> covered and to what limits each category should move to. Then we have a >> target to move towards? > > Unfortunately I don't have the cycles to do it, but you are welcome and > encouraged to start such a list, and float it to the mailing list for > discussion. I think that's a very thoughtful process, and I'm sure > others will pitch in their ideas. > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Dec 8 11:27:46 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 00:27:46 +1300 Subject: NSA guide to securing Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712080142p79055a4bs9c1e0a8d176c9457@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0712080142p79055a4bs9c1e0a8d176c9457@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <475A7FB2.6060904@mkc.co.nz> Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi, > > There is a fantastic "Guide to the Secure Configuration of Red Hat > Enterprise Linux 5" PDF available here: > > http://www.nsa.gov/snac/downloads_redhat.cfm?MenuID=scg10.3.1.1 > > It looks like it would be an invaluable resource for research for the > Fedora Admin Guide. This is pretty comprehensive doc but mostly directed at 'best-practice' from the security point of view. As such it would work the best as an add-on reading to admin guide. BTW, how did the exam go? Vladimir Among many other things, it covers IMAP/POP3, DNS, > Web, Samba, Proxies, LDAP etc. > > Kind Regards, > > Murray. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 8 14:02:47 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 07:02:47 -0700 Subject: Who I am Message-ID: <475AA407.1040002@zianet.com> Good morning. My name is Karl Larsen and I want to write the help for the gui device called Users and Groups. I am 72 years old and may die before a project is complete. On the Fedora list one person said there is a help for this device but I sure do not have it on my F7 or F8. I can write but it is likely to be old fashioned. I hope that is not a problem. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 8 14:07:31 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 23:07:31 +0900 Subject: Who I am In-Reply-To: <475AA407.1040002@zianet.com> References: <475AA407.1040002@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1197122852.14595.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 07:02 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > Good morning. My name is Karl Larsen and I want to write the help > for the gui device called Users and Groups. I am 72 years old and may > die before a project is complete. > > On the Fedora list one person said there is a help for this device > but I sure do not have it on my F7 or F8. > > I can write but it is likely to be old fashioned. I hope that is not > a problem. > > Karl > > -- > > Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI > Linux User > #450462 http://counter.li.org. > Welcome Karl enjoy your stay. The more help the better I say and any help is appreciated. You'll find out who heads up the different parts of the project in due course. If you have any spare time the desktop user guide is in need of some love as well so if you can help there that would be great. Cheers, Marc From dan at new2linux.com Sat Dec 8 16:54:09 2007 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 11:54:09 -0500 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <475A7C97.5080007@mkc.co.nz> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092530.9342.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197093295.14595.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197094794.9342.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475A7C97.5080007@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <475ACC31.8040408@new2linux.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:54 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> >>>> Does installing from a DVD automatically enable the DVD as a repo? I >>>> honestly don't know, since I haven't used a DVD to install in a very >>>> long time. The act of updating a system is one area I would say >>>> deserves attention in the DUG and the AG. That area of overlap, to me, >>>> would be understandable. >>>> >>>> >>> I would assume it does since on the fedoraforum there was a severe >>> amount of complaints about having to put a cd/dvd. >>> >> Before documenting it, whoever is writing that section should definitely >> confirm the behavior first. >> > I've tried two different installs - DVD and http, in both cases install > source ends up on the list of pre-selected repositories. If DVD install > is used and DVD not inserted post-install, pup and pirut fail until > ''install media"" repo is de-selected. > > Vladimir > This didn't used to be the behavior of a fedora install, but (afaik) it has been like this since F7. For things like this maybe it would be worth having a common problems section in the DUG? Most of us here have installed Linux, weather it be Fedora or another Linux distribution, more times than we can count. But the DUG is geared towards people that may have never installed it, and may not know how to disable a repo. In any event we really should have a section to help people solve these issues. >>> The purpose of it is a feature since you can now upgrade the fedora version >>> using yum and a dvd which is a huge plus. The problem arises is that the >>> cd/dvd repo itself is usually enabled by default after this. >>> >>> An update fails because it can't find the cd/dvd repo since your cd/dvd >>> is not in the drive so it can't find it so the update fails. >>> That is possibly a bug however I'm not sure of the status of that bug or >>> even if it is considered a bug. >>> >>> The simplest method to fix it is disabling the repo and then voila >>> yum-updatesd works by default updating the software. >>> >>> I hope thats clear because I personally have never experienced it >>> since I've always just used yum upgrade and edited the config files manually. >>> >> It is clear, but editing the configuration files manually is not the >> appropriate solution for the DUG. Instead, the documentation should >> indicate how the desktop user can use the Edit Repositories option in >> pup and pirut. Again, focus on ease of use and GUI desktop usage >> wherever possible. >> Using the situation above (the one Vladimir mentioned about needing the install media) as an example, pup and pirut won't start until you insert the install media, so you can't use them to disable a repo. While I do agree that the primary focus should be on using GUI tools to solve problems, sometimes it is necessary to use the CLI. >>>>> You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a >>>>> server set up would be an administration part. I'm not trying to be >>>>> pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is >>>>> different. >>>>> >>>> Setting up file sharing in the DUG is using System -> Preferences -> >>>> Network -> Personal File Sharing. Anything beyond that is AG material. >>>> >>>> >>> Has anyone got that to work? I've never actually got it to function >>> properly. >>> >> It works if the firewall is disabled. This is not ideal, and I would >> call this a bug unless both of us are doing something very wrong. I >> thought one of the points of ConsoleKit was to be able to punch a hole >> in the firewall for personal files sharing. In the meantime, I would >> simply document the behavior indicating that the user should consult the >> AG for firewall configuration info. >> >> Maybe an introduction to using system-config-firewall isn't such a stretch for the DUG. We don't necessarily need to go into detail, but at least giving a quick overview on how to do it would be sufficient for most desktop users. >>> I've got a lot of questions like this which is the essence of the >>> original email. Can we put together a list of what topics should be >>> covered and to what limits each category should move to. Then we have a >>> target to move towards? >>> >> Unfortunately I don't have the cycles to do it, but you are welcome and >> encouraged to start such a list, and float it to the mailing list for >> discussion. I think that's a very thoughtful process, and I'm sure >> others will pitch in their ideas. >> >> >> > > From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 17:44:09 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 8 Dec 2007 20:44:09 +0300 Subject: User Feedback on Fedora CD and DVD Writing Guide Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712080944o12bd4d6cp7a8cfe0157e74cd0@mail.gmail.com> To Whom It May Concern (especially stickster): A computer-savvy friend of mine downloaded the DVD ISO and needed to burn a bootable DVD to install Fedora 8. (He finally had enough of Windows XP and Windows Genuine Advantage, but that's another story.) I pointed him to the "Fedora Guide on Burning CDs and DVDs", my paraphrase of the title. Here's his feedback: "OK, now coming to you from a Fedora 8 system using a Firefox web browser. At least a few things are familiar! I think I've figured out the problems a bit better now. The application Fedora recommends to write bootable files is hard-coded to use CDs. If you follow the links on the man's page, you can see where his Vista release is where he started supporting DVDs. The other applications, Nero, Roxio, HonestSoft and several others also had some hard-coding inside. Specifically, they assumed a 3.2GB file must be a video and it modified the format to something appropriate for delivering video data but was no longer bootable. They also assumed that if a bootable DVD was wanted, the information to be written was very small. They would not write the file in UDF but instead used some other format which in turn, did not support files over 2GB. Obviously this resulted in an error code followed by exit." I hope this is useful. At least this story has a happy ending. :-) Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 8 18:32:00 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 11:32:00 -0700 Subject: Public key Message-ID: <475AE320.2040807@zianet.com> I was asked to get a Public Key number and got KGpg from yum and it seemed to do what was needed and I have 2 long numbers one called ID and the other is a real huge number. Which of these or another do I need to put in my signature file? I do not see the use yet. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Dec 8 20:04:57 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:04:57 +1300 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <475ACC31.8040408@new2linux.com> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092530.9342.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197093295.14595.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197094794.9342.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475A7C97.5080007@mkc.co.nz> <475ACC31.8040408@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <475AF8E9.3020300@mkc.co.nz> Dan O'Brien wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:54 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>> >>>>> Does installing from a DVD automatically enable the DVD as a repo? I >>>>> honestly don't know, since I haven't used a DVD to install in a very >>>>> long time. The act of updating a system is one area I would say >>>>> deserves attention in the DUG and the AG. That area of overlap, to me, >>>>> would be understandable. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I would assume it does since on the fedoraforum there was a severe >>>> amount of complaints about having to put a cd/dvd. >>>> >>> Before documenting it, whoever is writing that section should definitely >>> confirm the behavior first. >>> >> I've tried two different installs - DVD and http, in both cases install >> source ends up on the list of pre-selected repositories. If DVD install >> is used and DVD not inserted post-install, pup and pirut fail until >> ''install media"" repo is de-selected. >> >> Vladimir >> > This didn't used to be the behavior of a fedora install, but (afaik) it > has been like this since F7. > > For things like this maybe it would be worth having a common problems > section in the DUG? > Most of us here have installed Linux, weather it be Fedora or another > Linux distribution, more > times than we can count. But the DUG is geared towards people that may > have never installed it, > and may not know how to disable a repo. In any event we really should > have a section to help people > solve these issues. >>>> The purpose of it is a feature since you can now upgrade the fedora version >>>> using yum and a dvd which is a huge plus. The problem arises is that the >>>> cd/dvd repo itself is usually enabled by default after this. >>>> >>>> An update fails because it can't find the cd/dvd repo since your cd/dvd >>>> is not in the drive so it can't find it so the update fails. >>>> That is possibly a bug however I'm not sure of the status of that bug or >>>> even if it is considered a bug. >>>> >>>> The simplest method to fix it is disabling the repo and then voila >>>> yum-updatesd works by default updating the software. >>>> >>>> I hope thats clear because I personally have never experienced it >>>> since I've always just used yum upgrade and edited the config files manually. >>>> >>> It is clear, but editing the configuration files manually is not the >>> appropriate solution for the DUG. Instead, the documentation should >>> indicate how the desktop user can use the Edit Repositories option in >>> pup and pirut. Again, focus on ease of use and GUI desktop usage >>> wherever possible. >>> > Using the situation above (the one Vladimir mentioned about needing the > install media) as an example, > pup and pirut won't start until you insert the install media, so you > can't use them to disable a repo. While I > do agree that the primary focus should be on using GUI tools to solve > problems, sometimes it is necessary > to use the CLI. This one is actually 'fixable' through GUI: Open Applications-->Add/Remove Software If the repo is not available, pirut will fail but will also present the dialogue box [1]. Click the ''Repository Manager'' button. This opens ''Repository Manager'' [2], where the repository can be enabled/disabled. I am not sure who will write this stuff and where is it supposed to be. Example [1] and [2] screenshots are here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VladimirKosovac/RepoManager /!\ Note, [1] and [2] are not to be used for DUG - they don't look like defaults. Vladimir >>>>>> You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a >>>>>> server set up would be an administration part. I'm not trying to be >>>>>> pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is >>>>>> different. >>>>>> >>>>> Setting up file sharing in the DUG is using System -> Preferences -> >>>>> Network -> Personal File Sharing. Anything beyond that is AG material. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Has anyone got that to work? I've never actually got it to function >>>> properly. >>>> >>> It works if the firewall is disabled. This is not ideal, and I would >>> call this a bug unless both of us are doing something very wrong. I >>> thought one of the points of ConsoleKit was to be able to punch a hole >>> in the firewall for personal files sharing. In the meantime, I would >>> simply document the behavior indicating that the user should consult the >>> AG for firewall configuration info. >>> >>> > Maybe an introduction to using system-config-firewall isn't such a > stretch for the DUG. We > don't necessarily need to go into detail, but at least giving a quick > overview on how to do it > would be sufficient for most desktop users. >>>> I've got a lot of questions like this which is the essence of the >>>> original email. Can we put together a list of what topics should be >>>> covered and to what limits each category should move to. Then we have a >>>> target to move towards? >>>> >>> Unfortunately I don't have the cycles to do it, but you are welcome and >>> encouraged to start such a list, and float it to the mailing list for >>> discussion. I think that's a very thoughtful process, and I'm sure >>> others will pitch in their ideas. >>> >>> >>> >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dan at new2linux.com Sat Dec 8 20:03:57 2007 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:03:57 -0500 Subject: Public key In-Reply-To: <475AE320.2040807@zianet.com> References: <475AE320.2040807@zianet.com> Message-ID: <475AF8AD.7020809@new2linux.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > I was asked to get a Public Key number and got KGpg from yum and it > seemed to do what was needed and I have 2 long numbers one called ID > and the other is a real huge number. Which of these or another do I > need to put in my signature file? I do not see the use yet. > > Karl > Karl, Welcome. you can find the information you need as for what to do with your gpg key here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys Hope this helps Regards, Dan O'Brien From dan at new2linux.com Sat Dec 8 20:08:02 2007 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:08:02 -0500 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <475AF8E9.3020300@mkc.co.nz> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092530.9342.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197093295.14595.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197094794.9342.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475A7C97.5080007@mkc.co.nz> <475ACC31.8040408@new2linux.com> <475AF8E9.3020300@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <475AF9A2.3000408@new2linux.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Dan O'Brien wrote: > >> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> >>> Paul W. Frields wrote: >>> >>> >>>> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:54 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>>> Does installing from a DVD automatically enable the DVD as a repo? I >>>>>> honestly don't know, since I haven't used a DVD to install in a very >>>>>> long time. The act of updating a system is one area I would say >>>>>> deserves attention in the DUG and the AG. That area of overlap, to me, >>>>>> would be understandable. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> I would assume it does since on the fedoraforum there was a severe >>>>> amount of complaints about having to put a cd/dvd. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Before documenting it, whoever is writing that section should definitely >>>> confirm the behavior first. >>>> >>>> >>> I've tried two different installs - DVD and http, in both cases install >>> source ends up on the list of pre-selected repositories. If DVD install >>> is used and DVD not inserted post-install, pup and pirut fail until >>> ''install media"" repo is de-selected. >>> >>> Vladimir >>> >>> >> This didn't used to be the behavior of a fedora install, but (afaik) it >> has been like this since F7. >> >> For things like this maybe it would be worth having a common problems >> section in the DUG? >> Most of us here have installed Linux, weather it be Fedora or another >> Linux distribution, more >> times than we can count. But the DUG is geared towards people that may >> have never installed it, >> and may not know how to disable a repo. In any event we really should >> have a section to help people >> solve these issues. >> >>>>> The purpose of it is a feature since you can now upgrade the fedora version >>>>> using yum and a dvd which is a huge plus. The problem arises is that the >>>>> cd/dvd repo itself is usually enabled by default after this. >>>>> >>>>> An update fails because it can't find the cd/dvd repo since your cd/dvd >>>>> is not in the drive so it can't find it so the update fails. >>>>> That is possibly a bug however I'm not sure of the status of that bug or >>>>> even if it is considered a bug. >>>>> >>>>> The simplest method to fix it is disabling the repo and then voila >>>>> yum-updatesd works by default updating the software. >>>>> >>>>> I hope thats clear because I personally have never experienced it >>>>> since I've always just used yum upgrade and edited the config files manually. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> It is clear, but editing the configuration files manually is not the >>>> appropriate solution for the DUG. Instead, the documentation should >>>> indicate how the desktop user can use the Edit Repositories option in >>>> pup and pirut. Again, focus on ease of use and GUI desktop usage >>>> wherever possible. >>>> >>>> >> Using the situation above (the one Vladimir mentioned about needing the >> install media) as an example, >> pup and pirut won't start until you insert the install media, so you >> can't use them to disable a repo. While I >> do agree that the primary focus should be on using GUI tools to solve >> problems, sometimes it is necessary >> to use the CLI. >> > This one is actually 'fixable' through GUI: > > Open Applications-->Add/Remove Software > > If the repo is not available, pirut will fail but will also present the > dialogue box [1]. Click the ''Repository Manager'' button. This opens > ''Repository Manager'' [2], where the repository can be enabled/disabled. > > I am not sure who will write this stuff and where is it supposed to be. > Example [1] and [2] screenshots are here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/VladimirKosovac/RepoManager > > /!\ Note, [1] and [2] are not to be used for DUG - they don't look like > defaults. > > Vladimir > > > Maybe mine was a special case, (although it did happen on two separate F8 installations) no matter what I did, I could not get pup or pirut to work untilI manually disabled the repo by changing the enabled=1 to enabled=0 in /etc/yum.repos.d/Fedora-install-media.repo. > >>>>>>> You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a >>>>>>> server set up would be an administration part. I'm not trying to be >>>>>>> pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is >>>>>>> different. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> Setting up file sharing in the DUG is using System -> Preferences -> >>>>>> Network -> Personal File Sharing. Anything beyond that is AG material. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Has anyone got that to work? I've never actually got it to function >>>>> properly. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> It works if the firewall is disabled. This is not ideal, and I would >>>> call this a bug unless both of us are doing something very wrong. I >>>> thought one of the points of ConsoleKit was to be able to punch a hole >>>> in the firewall for personal files sharing. In the meantime, I would >>>> simply document the behavior indicating that the user should consult the >>>> AG for firewall configuration info. >>>> >>>> >>>> >> Maybe an introduction to using system-config-firewall isn't such a >> stretch for the DUG. We >> don't necessarily need to go into detail, but at least giving a quick >> overview on how to do it >> would be sufficient for most desktop users. >> >>>>> I've got a lot of questions like this which is the essence of the >>>>> original email. Can we put together a list of what topics should be >>>>> covered and to what limits each category should move to. Then we have a >>>>> target to move towards? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Unfortunately I don't have the cycles to do it, but you are welcome and >>>> encouraged to start such a list, and float it to the mailing list for >>>> discussion. I think that's a very thoughtful process, and I'm sure >>>> others will pitch in their ideas. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> > > From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 8 21:10:46 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 16:10:46 -0500 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <475ACC31.8040408@new2linux.com> References: <1197037357.3186.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197073090.20273.10.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197073637.14595.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4759EEB4.30306@mkc.co.nz> <1197080458.9342.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092068.14595.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197092530.9342.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197093295.14595.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197094794.9342.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475A7C97.5080007@mkc.co.nz> <475ACC31.8040408@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1197148246.9342.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 11:54 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> Before documenting it, whoever is writing that section should definitely > >> confirm the behavior first. > >> > > I've tried two different installs - DVD and http, in both cases install > > source ends up on the list of pre-selected repositories. If DVD install > > is used and DVD not inserted post-install, pup and pirut fail until > > ''install media"" repo is de-selected. > > > This didn't used to be the behavior of a fedora install, but (afaik) it > has been like this since F7. I do almost entirely HTTP installs and I've never seen this behavior yet. Something's rotten in the state of Denmark, methinks... > For things like this maybe it would be worth having a common problems > section in the DUG? > Most of us here have installed Linux, weather it be Fedora or another > Linux distribution, more > times than we can count. But the DUG is geared towards people that may > have never installed it, > and may not know how to disable a repo. In any event we really should > have a section to help people > solve these issues. I'm not sure stretching the mission of the DUG is the right thing to do. If there's a known problem in the distro, it should be documented there. But opening the gates to Yet Another Bug List is probably overkill. There is already a place on the wiki to which we can direct users, which makes more sense since bug behavior gets updated there more quickly. > >> It is clear, but editing the configuration files manually is not the > >> appropriate solution for the DUG. Instead, the documentation should > >> indicate how the desktop user can use the Edit Repositories option in > >> pup and pirut. Again, focus on ease of use and GUI desktop usage > >> wherever possible. > >> > Using the situation above (the one Vladimir mentioned about needing the > install media) as an example, > pup and pirut won't start until you insert the install media, so you > can't use them to disable a repo. While I > do agree that the primary focus should be on using GUI tools to solve > problems, sometimes it is necessary > to use the CLI. Understood, if you have to, then you have to. But as I said, I haven't had this problem using HTTP installs here, so the behavior needs to be nailed down. It might make sense for the writer of that area to contact the anaconda folks to confirm any problems for writing up canonical docs on it. > >>>>> You need to set up file-sharing which I would call desktop capability a > >>>>> server set up would be an administration part. I'm not trying to be > >>>>> pedantic but maybe my definition of desktop to administrator is > >>>>> different. > >>>>> > >>>> Setting up file sharing in the DUG is using System -> Preferences -> > >>>> Network -> Personal File Sharing. Anything beyond that is AG material. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> Has anyone got that to work? I've never actually got it to function > >>> properly. > >>> > >> It works if the firewall is disabled. This is not ideal, and I would > >> call this a bug unless both of us are doing something very wrong. I > >> thought one of the points of ConsoleKit was to be able to punch a hole > >> in the firewall for personal files sharing. In the meantime, I would > >> simply document the behavior indicating that the user should consult the > >> AG for firewall configuration info. > >> > >> > Maybe an introduction to using system-config-firewall isn't such a > stretch for the DUG. We > don't necessarily need to go into detail, but at least giving a quick > overview on how to do it > would be sufficient for most desktop users. It doesn't help in this situation, because the port potentially changes with each use. That's why *Kit is supposed to be doing the work. Telling the users to keep punching firewall holes every time they log in just looks... bleccch. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 8 21:27:04 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:27:04 -0700 Subject: Public key In-Reply-To: <475AF8AD.7020809@new2linux.com> References: <475AE320.2040807@zianet.com> <475AF8AD.7020809@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <475B0C28.5070501@zianet.com> Dan O'Brien wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: > >> I was asked to get a Public Key number and got KGpg from yum and it >> seemed to do what was needed and I have 2 long numbers one called ID >> and the other is a real huge number. Which of these or another do I >> need to put in my signature file? I do not see the use yet. >> >> Karl >> >> > > Karl, > > Welcome. you can find the information you need as for what to do with > your gpg key here > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys > > Hope this helps > > Regards, > Dan O'Brien > > Hi Dan, I am spending way to much time on this. I got the first thing on the web page, a Knog like thing that seemed to work but with no docs it was bad. I yum removed it and used the simple terminal method which is a bit more clear. I have the finger to put in my signature on Thundirbird but now I forget where my signature is. I looked at the setup files but missed the place if there. I recall it is tricky to find. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 8 21:53:30 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:53:30 -0700 Subject: Past the signature problem Message-ID: <475B125A.2090404@zianet.com> Well now the signature appears as I want it. It was far harder to do than I thought. But it is now done. -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 8 22:27:16 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 15:27:16 -0700 Subject: Users and Groups Message-ID: <475B1A44.4080105@zianet.com> I got interested in writing some documentation for this Application since there appears to not be any. Who is in charge of this task? Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From kwade at redhat.com Sat Dec 8 22:45:59 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 14:45:59 -0800 Subject: NSA guide to securing Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 In-Reply-To: <475A7FB2.6060904@mkc.co.nz> References: <95f1114b0712080142p79055a4bs9c1e0a8d176c9457@mail.gmail.com> <475A7FB2.6060904@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1197153959.10202.5.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-12-09 at 00:27 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > This is pretty comprehensive doc but mostly directed at 'best-practice' > from the security point of view. As such it would work the best as an > add-on reading to admin guide. +1 Definitely in the references and further reading section. I've already heard Linux security experts call it a best-in-class guide, and it appears to be generic enough to apply to any Fedora-like derivative. Great for admins and writers of admin content :) to learn from. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 8 23:13:22 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 08:13:22 +0900 Subject: Users and Groups In-Reply-To: <475B1A44.4080105@zianet.com> References: <475B1A44.4080105@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1197155602.14595.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 15:27 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > I got interested in writing some documentation for this Application > since there appears to not be any. Who is in charge of this task? > > Karl > > -- > > Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI > Linux User > #450462 http://counter.li.org. > GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 > I think that goes in the admin guide but I'm not to sure. I'm sorta confusing the issue in myself of whats desktop use and whats admin use. Cheers, Marc From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 9 00:20:37 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 08 Dec 2007 17:20:37 -0700 Subject: Users and Groups In-Reply-To: <1197155602.14595.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <475B1A44.4080105@zianet.com> <1197155602.14595.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <475B34D5.20906@zianet.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 15:27 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> I got interested in writing some documentation for this Application >> since there appears to not be any. Who is in charge of this task? >> >> Karl >> >> -- >> >> Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI >> Linux User >> #450462 http://counter.li.org. >> GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 >> >> > > I think that goes in the admin guide but I'm not to sure. I'm sorta > confusing the issue in myself of whats desktop use and whats admin use. > > Cheers, > > Marc > > Hi Marc, if I have a choice I think this should be part of Desktop. I have been looking at the various Help tools and dislike those that go to a web page. I like the way Gedit calls it's help from Desktop and would like to see Users and Groups called the same way. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sun Dec 9 01:52:25 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 14:52:25 +1300 Subject: Users and Groups In-Reply-To: <475B34D5.20906@zianet.com> References: <475B1A44.4080105@zianet.com> <1197155602.14595.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475B34D5.20906@zianet.com> Message-ID: <475B4A59.9000604@mkc.co.nz> Karl Larsen wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 15:27 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> I got interested in writing some documentation for this Application >>> since there appears to not be any. Who is in charge of this task? >>> >>> Karl >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI >>> Linux User >>> #450462 http://counter.li.org. >>> GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 >>> >>> >> >> I think that goes in the admin guide but I'm not to sure. I'm sorta >> confusing the issue in myself of whats desktop use and whats admin use. >> >> Cheers, >> >> Marc >> >> > Hi Marc, if I have a choice I think this should be part of Desktop. I > have been looking at the various Help tools and dislike those that go to > a web page. I like the way Gedit calls it's help from Desktop and would > like to see Users and Groups called the same way. Karl, I'm afraid this would not be possible. This is a separate application [`system-config-users`]. ''Users and Groups'' is a GUI wrapper for the `system-config-users` and is placed in the System-->Administration menu for a reason - it handles "system administration" type task and requires root privileges. It is covered here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts DUG guidelines have been posted to the list not so long ago by John Babich, DUG Lead Writer. Here is the relevant excerpt: ######################################################################## As far as the boundary between the DUG and the Administration Guide (AG), I agree with Paul that the GUI/non-GUI distinction has very little relevance. We should always point to the GUI apps first, except in those rare cases where GUI apps don't exist or don't provide the required functionality. I think the main distinction is the target audience. The DUG's audience is the first-time or less-experienced user who wants to perform common tasks like web-browsing, creating simple spreadsheets and text documents. The AG's audience is the more-experienced person who wants to manage a group of users with various access levels, or set up and administer servers such as HTTP/FTP, IMAP/POP3, authentication, proxy, DHCP, etc. ######################################################################## John, Paul, Karsten and the rest of doc writers, I still maintain that the basic parts of a User Manager (Creating users and groups) have their place in a DUG, though. Users new to Fedora may also have a need to quickly create multiple accounts on the machine without having to read the administration guide. Is this still for discussion or the whole thing will be handled by the admin guide alone? Cheers, Vladimir > > Karl > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 9 13:06:10 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 06:06:10 -0700 Subject: Users and Groups In-Reply-To: <475B4A59.9000604@mkc.co.nz> References: <475B1A44.4080105@zianet.com> <1197155602.14595.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475B34D5.20906@zianet.com> <475B4A59.9000604@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <475BE842.2060709@zianet.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> >>> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 15:27 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I got interested in writing some documentation for this Application >>>> since there appears to not be any. Who is in charge of this task? >>>> >>>> Karl >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI >>>> Linux User >>>> #450462 http://counter.li.org. >>>> GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> I think that goes in the admin guide but I'm not to sure. I'm sorta >>> confusing the issue in myself of whats desktop use and whats admin use. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Marc >>> >>> >>> >> Hi Marc, if I have a choice I think this should be part of Desktop. I >> have been looking at the various Help tools and dislike those that go to >> a web page. I like the way Gedit calls it's help from Desktop and would >> like to see Users and Groups called the same way. >> > > Karl, I'm afraid this would not be possible. This is a separate > application [`system-config-users`]. > > ''Users and Groups'' is a GUI wrapper for the `system-config-users` and > is placed in the System-->Administration menu for a reason - it handles > "system administration" type task and requires root privileges. > > It is covered here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts > > DUG guidelines have been posted to the list not so long ago by John > Babich, DUG Lead Writer. Here is the relevant excerpt: > I can't seem to unpack what DUG means. > ######################################################################## > As far as the boundary between the DUG and the Administration Guide > (AG), I agree with Paul that the GUI/non-GUI distinction has very > little relevance. We should always point to the GUI apps first, except > in those rare cases where GUI apps don't exist or don't provide the > required functionality. > In the case of making Users with Groups the current writing on the web is fine but the GUI part is shown late in the writing. This is not a problem if, when a user clicks Help it brings up just the part dealing with the GUI system. And, my desire is to put the best possible Help up for a user that finds Users and Groups on their computer. Last week I needed to make my login include the uucp Group so I can use the Serial Port Com1. I went to the GUI and could not do it. I had to use #usermod karl -a -G uucp which worked fine but took 3 hours to find :-) Later I stumbled onto Edit and found how to show all the users. This is what I needed. Karl > I think the main distinction is the target audience. The DUG's > audience is the first-time or less-experienced user who wants to > perform common tasks like web-browsing, creating simple spreadsheets > and text documents. The AG's audience is the more-experienced person > who wants to manage a group of users with various access levels, or > set up and administer servers such as HTTP/FTP, IMAP/POP3, > authentication, proxy, DHCP, etc. > ######################################################################## > > John, Paul, Karsten and the rest of doc writers, > > I still maintain that the basic parts of a User Manager (Creating users > and groups) have their place in a DUG, though. Users new to Fedora may > also have a need to quickly create multiple accounts on the machine > without having to read the administration guide. Is this still for > discussion or the whole thing will be handled by the admin guide alone? > > Cheers, Vladimir > > >> Karl >> >> >> > > -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 9 16:38:46 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:38:46 -0700 Subject: Users and Groups In-Reply-To: <475BE842.2060709@zianet.com> References: <475B1A44.4080105@zianet.com> <1197155602.14595.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475B34D5.20906@zianet.com> <475B4A59.9000604@mkc.co.nz> <475BE842.2060709@zianet.com> Message-ID: <475C1A16.6070100@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 15:27 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> I got interested in writing some documentation for this Application >>>>> since there appears to not be any. Who is in charge of this task? >>>>> >>>>> Karl >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> >>>>> Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI >>>>> Linux User >>>>> #450462 http://counter.li.org. >>>>> GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I think that goes in the admin guide but I'm not to sure. I'm sorta >>>> confusing the issue in myself of whats desktop use and whats admin >>>> use. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> >>>> Marc >>>> >>>> >>> Hi Marc, if I have a choice I think this should be part of >>> Desktop. I >>> have been looking at the various Help tools and dislike those that >>> go to >>> a web page. I like the way Gedit calls it's help from Desktop and would >>> like to see Users and Groups called the same way. >>> >> >> Karl, I'm afraid this would not be possible. This is a separate >> application [`system-config-users`]. >> >> ''Users and Groups'' is a GUI wrapper for the `system-config-users` and >> is placed in the System-->Administration menu for a reason - it handles >> "system administration" type task and requires root privileges. >> >> It is covered here: >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts >> >> >> DUG guidelines have been posted to the list not so long ago by John >> Babich, DUG Lead Writer. Here is the relevant excerpt: >> > I can't seem to unpack what DUG means. > > > >> ######################################################################## >> As far as the boundary between the DUG and the Administration Guide >> (AG), I agree with Paul that the GUI/non-GUI distinction has very >> little relevance. We should always point to the GUI apps first, except >> in those rare cases where GUI apps don't exist or don't provide the >> required functionality. >> > In the case of making Users with Groups the current writing on the > web is fine but the GUI part is shown late in the writing. This is > not a problem if, when a user clicks Help it brings up just the part > dealing with the GUI system. > > > And, my desire is to put the best possible Help up for a user that > finds Users and Groups on their computer. > > Last week I needed to make my login include the uucp Group so I can > use the Serial Port Com1. I went to the GUI and could not do it. I had > to use #usermod karl -a -G uucp > which worked fine but took 3 hours to find :-) > > Later I stumbled onto Edit and found how to show all the users. > This is what I needed. > > Karl > > > >> I think the main distinction is the target audience. The DUG's >> audience is the first-time or less-experienced user who wants to >> perform common tasks like web-browsing, creating simple spreadsheets >> and text documents. The AG's audience is the more-experienced person >> who wants to manage a group of users with various access levels, or >> set up and administer servers such as HTTP/FTP, IMAP/POP3, >> authentication, proxy, DHCP, etc. >> ######################################################################## >> >> John, Paul, Karsten and the rest of doc writers, >> >> I still maintain that the basic parts of a User Manager (Creating users >> and groups) have their place in a DUG, though. Users new to Fedora may >> also have a need to quickly create multiple accounts on the machine >> without having to read the administration guide. Is this still for >> discussion or the whole thing will be handled by the admin guide alone? >> >> Cheers, Vladimir >> >> >>> Karl >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > Here is a little writing to start a caution. Recall that you just provided the Root password to get Users and Groups to come up. Now YOU are Root. A word of Caution. A simple error can ruin your computer! If you feel unsure of what your doing,read this Help and if your still not sure turn off Users and Groups. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 9 17:37:55 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 09:37:55 -0800 Subject: nominations open Message-ID: <1197221875.10202.13.camel@erato.phig.org> Forgot to remind us the nominations are open: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations Go ahead! Details here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Policy/FDSCoElections Elections start on 14 December. -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Dec 9 19:55:59 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 9 Dec 2007 22:55:59 +0300 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-12-09 IRC log Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712091155q764fa6f2s4a2f73886e74e662@mail.gmail.com> all righty, roll up your sleeves meeting topics: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings go for it * couf has changed the topic to: Fedora Documentation -- guide status How are we doing on the DUG and AG? jmbuser: Interest remains high in producing a quality DUG, as witnessed by the mailing list. * jmbuser excuses himself for mumbling to himself * couf missed this weeks productivity, been working nuts I am now the beat writers for docs, so read all about it cool jmbuser couf: Not much else to report - hoping to do some revisions myself and encourage others to do the same couf: I am encouraged by new volunteers with fresh energy and ideas end of my DUG report as I said, I've been out of the loop, so I've got to catch up with the AG * stickster appreciates jmbuser making objectives clear on ML stickster: Thanks other guides we need to touch? Is Admin Guide ready for publication? * quaid comes by purely out of chance but chooses to hang out quaidL Howdy! jmbuser: for my part, not yet, it's still a bit scaterred information, it needs some integration works foundation is great, and I'm thankfull for all the work that's gone in too it, but it misses some coherence couf: That suggests freezing the content and doing an editorial pass. I think there are people still asking on the list about subject matter areas to include Those discussions should probably be explored and concluded before we freeze * EvilBob is glad to see quaid's name on the FUDCon list stickster: true that couf: Next agenda item? I'm wondering if we want to put some deadlines on that work? as in, get it done before we dive into the release-specific stuff again couf: +1 current schedule, says 24 Jan is alpha-release notes deadline http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule couf: Now that you're back, you can probably crack some whips on the list okidoki so next up: * couf has changed the topic to: Fedora Documentation -- elections https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-December/msg00011.html I remember us all agreeing that this was doable, although, we might have a slight problem: ambassadors election has been moved back a week, due to lack of nominees it might happen that they don't have an election, but if they do, we're having it at the same time and the voting app can't cope with dual elections well if ambassadors needs to reschedule they should now have to reschedule around us ah, voting app limitations I recall John adding FDSCo election to the official schedule EvilBob: +1 true that\ jmbuser: correct, http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f9/f-9-all-details.html well then, we missed our start, nominations should be open right now It should not be our projects fault that not enough people care about ambassadors leadership, if we ave to wait until they have an election we might never get our turn. EvilBob: right We have three seats up this time? stickster: correct argh, sorry meant to send a note * jmbuser throws his hat in the rng s /rng/ ring/ about the nominations start * jmbuser is running on his typing skills :-) * stickster moves we clear out the current nominations page and make way for new writeups yeah, mine, jmbuser's and pawel's seat are up for election * stickster hopes you guys will be putting yourselves in for re-election lets just get this rolling, announce the opening NOW, and stick to our other dates it is not like the opening for nominations has been a secret +1 True dat, it was posted to the mailing list did it make Fedora News? oops, s/News/Weekly News/ I put it in for this week that I don't know but it can be in tomorrow's complete with dates EvilBob: It's in tomorrow's edition * quaid sends note about nominations being open I'm blogging it too. good yep, I'll blog it too okay, the rest of the election process has been done already, so * couf has changed the topic to: Fedora Documentation -- AOB +1 FUDCon * couf can't come :-( I see three of us on the list, are we doing anything Docs related to get some fresh blood? I see "Developer Guide Reboot -- Paul W. Frields" likewise :-( Yup, this is a pet project of mine, but I want to find out at FUDCon what the developers think I should probably blog something in advance too to gather input I would really like to put together a Packaging guide, maybe FUDCon is the right place to look at that again. I want to canonize current documentation on Fedora code development. This could be a difficult project depending on how much is projected to change over the next cycle with packaging + engineering. great idea stickster I want to be careful to avoid trying to pack fast-moving targets into a Development Guide because it will simply create maintenance nightmares. Working on my SIG (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/AmateurRadio) I have found a lot of holes in the existing packaging stuff on the wiki But there is a lot that could be written up to get people started on Fedora as a development platform, including software setup and tips. EvilBob: Have you brought it up with the Packaging committee? spot is pretty darned good about coverage in the packaging docs, the majority of which he's worked on or written stickster: it is all about "experience" really stickster: yeah spot has been a big help I would really like us to do the "multi-location" hackfest for FUDCon if we have stuff to work on. +1 * stickster is into that idea. +1 too * couf needs to run for a bit word Any other business? nope wrap it up +1 +1 In 60 45 30 15 5 4 3 2 1 From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 00:14:57 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:14:57 -0500 Subject: NSA guide to securing Red Hat Enterprise Linux 5 In-Reply-To: <1197153959.10202.5.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <95f1114b0712080142p79055a4bs9c1e0a8d176c9457@mail.gmail.com> <475A7FB2.6060904@mkc.co.nz> <1197153959.10202.5.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1197245697.14779.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 14:45 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2007-12-09 at 00:27 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > This is pretty comprehensive doc but mostly directed at 'best-practice' > > from the security point of view. As such it would work the best as an > > add-on reading to admin guide. > > +1 Definitely in the references and further reading section. I've > already heard Linux security experts call it a best-in-class guide, and > it appears to be generic enough to apply to any Fedora-like derivative. > Great for admins and writers of admin content :) to learn from. Typically first-class work from the NSA as usual. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 00:19:10 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:19:10 -0500 Subject: Users and Groups In-Reply-To: <475B4A59.9000604@mkc.co.nz> References: <475B1A44.4080105@zianet.com> <1197155602.14595.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475B34D5.20906@zianet.com> <475B4A59.9000604@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1197245950.14779.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-09 at 14:52 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > DUG guidelines have been posted to the list not so long ago by John > Babich, DUG Lead Writer. Here is the relevant excerpt: > > ######################################################################## > As far as the boundary between the DUG and the Administration Guide > (AG), I agree with Paul that the GUI/non-GUI distinction has very > little relevance. We should always point to the GUI apps first, except > in those rare cases where GUI apps don't exist or don't provide the > required functionality. > > I think the main distinction is the target audience. The DUG's > audience is the first-time or less-experienced user who wants to > perform common tasks like web-browsing, creating simple spreadsheets > and text documents. The AG's audience is the more-experienced person > who wants to manage a group of users with various access levels, or > set up and administer servers such as HTTP/FTP, IMAP/POP3, > authentication, proxy, DHCP, etc. > ######################################################################## > > John, Paul, Karsten and the rest of doc writers, > > I still maintain that the basic parts of a User Manager (Creating users > and groups) have their place in a DUG, though. Users new to Fedora may > also have a need to quickly create multiple accounts on the machine > without having to read the administration guide. Is this still for > discussion or the whole thing will be handled by the admin guide alone? I think you may be confused on what is a typical use case for a desktop user. Dekstop users (that is, users who are unfamiliar with an operating system or Linux) do not need to create multiple accounts on the machine. The description of the target audience, if memory serves, is covered in the "Assumptions" section in the DUG. Some folks may recall me harping many moons ago on the need to accurately describe your target audience and assumptions when you write a doc, and now you'll see whence that need arises. Among other purposes, it helps to figure out what belongs in a given document. This is definitely a topic for the AG. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 00:26:01 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:26:01 -0500 Subject: User Feedback on Fedora CD and DVD Writing Guide In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712080944o12bd4d6cp7a8cfe0157e74cd0@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0712080944o12bd4d6cp7a8cfe0157e74cd0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1197246361.14779.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 20:44 +0300, John Babich wrote: > To Whom It May Concern (especially stickster): > > A computer-savvy friend of mine downloaded the DVD ISO and needed to > burn a bootable DVD to install Fedora 8. (He finally had enough of > Windows XP and Windows Genuine Advantage, but that's another story.) > > I pointed him to the "Fedora Guide on Burning CDs and DVDs", my > paraphrase of the title. > > Here's his feedback: > > "OK, now coming to you from a Fedora 8 system using a Firefox web > browser. At least a few things are familiar! I think I've figured out > the problems a bit better now. > > The application Fedora recommends to write bootable files is > hard-coded to use CDs. If you follow the links on the man's page, you > can see where his Vista release is where he started supporting DVDs. I can't figure out what this last paragraph means. To what "man's page" is he referring? Can you give more details? > The other applications, Nero, Roxio, HonestSoft and several others > also had some hard-coding inside. Specifically, they assumed a 3.2GB > file must be a video and it modified the format to something > appropriate for delivering video data but was no longer bootable. > They also assumed that if a bootable DVD was wanted, the information > to be written was very small. They would not write the file in UDF but > instead used some other format which in turn, did not support files > over 2GB. Obviously this resulted in an error code followed by exit." Wow, it only gets worse for Windows users. So glad I escaped that trap years ago. :-) But in any case, if someone has these applications available, what I really need to improve this doc is testing help -- that means someone who can (1) use the English language in a manner sufficient to give me detailed and relevant information on how this works for an app he has installed, and (2) can test directions without variance and offer appropriate feedback. > I hope this is useful. At least this story has a happy ending. :-) Well, I'm glad it has a happy ending, for sure! However, it would be more useful if I had more details than the above. I don't have any of these OM-burning applications at my disposal, so I rely purely on the input of equipped contributors to deliver any fixes or solutions. If your friend would like to file a bug and enter a dialog with me that way, I'm all for it! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 00:27:39 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:27:39 -0500 Subject: User Feedback on Fedora CD and DVD Writing Guide In-Reply-To: <1197246361.14779.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <9d2c731f0712080944o12bd4d6cp7a8cfe0157e74cd0@mail.gmail.com> <1197246361.14779.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197246459.14779.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sorry to reply to myself... On Sun, 2007-12-09 at 19:26 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I hope this is useful. At least this story has a happy ending. :-) > > Well, I'm glad it has a happy ending, for sure! However, it would be > more useful if I had more details than the above. I don't have any of > these OM-burning applications at my disposal, so I rely purely on the > input of equipped contributors to deliver any fixes or solutions. If > your friend would like to file a bug and enter a dialog with me that > way, I'm all for it! By the way, the "Burning Discs" document is not my private playground, and I would encourage contributors to help out with the doc. I will see commits and do editing on the XML in CVS as required. If you're on the list and interested, please correspond *on the list* and not by sending me private email. Keep it open and free! :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Dec 10 05:25:36 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 08:25:36 +0300 Subject: User Feedback on Fedora CD and DVD Writing Guide In-Reply-To: <1197246361.14779.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <9d2c731f0712080944o12bd4d6cp7a8cfe0157e74cd0@mail.gmail.com> <1197246361.14779.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712092125l3b9b9fd4p177c40885ea9b9bb@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 10, 2007 3:26 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 20:44 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > To Whom It May Concern (especially stickster): > > > Wow, it only gets worse for Windows users. So glad I escaped that trap > years ago. :-) But in any case, if someone has these applications > available, what I really need to improve this doc is testing help -- > that means someone who can (1) use the English language in a manner > sufficient to give me detailed and relevant information on how this > works for an app he has installed, and (2) can test directions without > variance and offer appropriate feedback. > > > I hope this is useful. At least this story has a happy ending. :-) > > Well, I'm glad it has a happy ending, for sure! However, it would be > more useful if I had more details than the above. I don't have any of > these OM-burning applications at my disposal, so I rely purely on the > input of equipped contributors to deliver any fixes or solutions. If > your friend would like to file a bug and enter a dialog with me that > way, I'm all for it! > I realize this is pretty fuzzy for a "bug report", but I promised my friend I'd pass along his experiences. I'll see if I can get him to give a more detailed account of what happened for the benefit of other Windows users who which to switch. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 10 17:35:28 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 09:35:28 -0800 Subject: system-config-users help files (was Who I am) In-Reply-To: <475AA407.1040002@zianet.com> References: <475AA407.1040002@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1197308128.3078.24.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-12-08 at 07:02 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > Good morning. My name is Karl Larsen and I want to write the help > for the gui device called Users and Groups. Users and Groups has perfectly good documentation within it, last time I checked. Is it out of date or inaccurate? You should be able to see the content appear in your web browser (Firefox) when clicking on either the Help button or the menu Help > Contents. It pulls up this content: file:///usr/share/doc/system-config-users-/index.html Fedora Docs does not contribute directly to that guide. It is maintained by the upstream, which, ironically, is a Fedora developer. But that developer has not asked Fedora Docs to help with that guide, etc. The best place to submit fixes to that content is via bugzilla against the system-config-users component. This is one area that we probably don't need to cover as well, since the content in the application is sufficient and we can refer to it. I notice that it is under the OPL but doesn't have the options removed. I'll file a bug about that, and once it is fixed, we have the option of pulling in some or all of that content into our guide. We can then start submitting patches upstream and maintain the content as a part of our guide as a downstream consumer. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 10 20:08:24 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:08:24 -0800 Subject: cvsdocs requests In-Reply-To: <1196009217.24326.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1195926889.5074.31.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0711241001r7a8fa903g450943c60312c2d1@mail.gmail.com> <1195933129.28180.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0711250442m5c5ac63t5deabc85a8358016@mail.gmail.com> <1196009217.24326.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197317304.3078.55.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-11-25 at 11:46 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Well, the translators have their own signup routines, as codified in the > Translation Quick Start Guide: > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/ > > Note that the instructions only ask them to sign up for the "cvsl10n" > group (Sections 2.6 and 4). I suppose we could put in a warning of some > sort, but that seems like overkill -- after all, the Packagers group > doesn't put up admonitions not to sign up for "cvsdocs," right? All CVS > access is granted by need with an extremely low barrier, but in this > case the need is zero, since translators in the "cvsl10n" group > automatically can deal with any documentation's "po/" folder in CVS. As a follow-up to this ... We aren't restrictive per-se on who can have 'cvsdocs' access; one just needs to follow the instructions. But there is value to us in having 'cvsdocs' be populated with "people who have this access for the intention of writing or editing documentation." Then we can look at the number of people in the 'cvsdocs' group and use it to inform us as to how many folks are "writing for Fedora." Also, we use the 'cvsdocs' group to define who can vote in Fedora Documentation Project elections; this is a common practice in other groups to only allow voting from those within the commit group. To me, it's a relatively low barrier that ensures: i. The person hurdling it actually intends to do so; ii. The person hurdling it proves capable of making the hurdle - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 10 20:17:43 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 12:17:43 -0800 Subject: Gnome and KDE In-Reply-To: <1196177948.3486.8.camel@bruiser.localdomain> References: <1196177948.3486.8.camel@bruiser.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197317863.3078.65.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-11-27 at 10:39 -0500, Jason wrote: > Last night in IRC it came up about documenting both KDE and Gnome > walk-throughs when writing docs. This is sort of aimed at John and his > group working on KDE stuff already, do you want KDE docs written > separate? For example would it be OK to include a menu walk-through for > both Gnome and KDE when writing an independent doc (e.g. not > attached/related to the DUG)? My thought is that a single doc that > includes all the relevant instructions for a particular task would be > good. However, if the larger idea is to have 2 separate doc trees (i.e. > Gnome and KDE) then this would not be a good idea. Obviously this is not clear enough. Is there somewhere good in the wiki we can put down this rule? Under DocsProject/WorkFlow? I think this is just knowledge shared on the list and not yet documented. :) The idea is to have all you need in one doc, and in a consistent manner that is useful. Also, this gives you a cascading pattern of importance, so if you have to fall short in content or need to bring in help, it is easier to assign them to a broad range (all KDE, all CLI, etc.) So, a chapter and sections could go like this: = Cool Tech = Summary. == Using Cool Tech for Task 1 == == In GNOME == == In KDE == == Using CLI == == In XCFE == ... (It's not necessary to make separate == sections == for each, that could just be the order used within a single section.) That means we prioritize documenting by the default (GNOME), the next popular (KDE), the useful anywhere but not a GUI (CLI), and the last popular/used (XCFE). By using a consistent order, if anything is missing we can either put a NO CONTENT WRITTEN mark or otherwise leave it out, and hopefully give the reader enough clues to not get lost. As ugly as it sounds, it seems like it's necessary to be useful to the widest range of potential readers. Let's confirm or fix, iterate, and get a consensus on what form we want this to take. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Dec 11 03:37:59 2007 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:37:59 -0500 Subject: [Bug 244505] [INFORMATION] Upgrading from FC6 to F7 via yum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200712110337.lBB3bxUw015230@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug report. Summary: [INFORMATION] Upgrading from FC6 to F7 via yum https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=244505 razvan.sandu at mobexpert.ro changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |CLOSED Resolution| |NOTABUG -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Dec 11 13:41:11 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:41:11 +0900 Subject: Dug contents Message-ID: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, I changed to a new title since I want to flesh out some content that needs to be done in order to complete the DuG. I'm hoping that I can get some work done this week. I think in two weeks it should be ready since next week I'll be on holidays at home on my own :-) Table of Contents 1. Introduction 1. About this document 2. Desktops - Description of Gnome and Kde (could add XFCE) 3. Logging into the Desktop 1. Logging in 2. Loggin in: An Explanation 3. I cannot login: Help! 4. Tour of the GNOME Desktop - Associate things relating to gnome. Trash, icons etc. 5. Tour of the KDE Desktop - Kicker minimal icons? 6. Tour of the Xfce Desktop - 1. XFCE desktop panel 2. Xfce Window list Panel 7. Using Media 1. Understanding 2. Exploring Media 3. Writing CD's 4. Using Nautilus in Gnome 5. Using K3b in KDE 6. Using Gnomebaker in Gnome 8. Connecting to Internet 1. Configuring Internet access 2. Configuring PPPoE 3. DHCP Connection 4. Static IP 5. Wireless 6. VPN 7. Network Manager 9. Accessing the Web 1. Using firefox 2. Navigating the web 3. Tabs 4. Exentions 5. Going further 10. Communications (Email, IM) 1. Evolution 1. Using Evolution 2. Pidgin 1. Configuring Pidgin 2. Using Pidgin 11. Office Tools 1. Openoffice description then a reference to a website 12. Financial Software 1. Gnucash 2. Kmymoney 13. Playing Multimedia (Music & Video) 1. Playing audio cd's 1. Converting audio cd's to music files 2. Organizing your multimedia files 1. playing videos 3. Fedora's approach to multimedia support 4. Further Info 14. Playing Games 1. Brief description of default games 15. Managing Photos 1. Connecting your Camera 2. Organizing and Importing Photos 1. Selecting a Filing Method 2. Categorizing your photos 16. Sharing Your Desktop 17. Customizing the Desktop 1. Changing your theme 2. Changing the background 3. Customizing file browsing behavior 18. Managing Software With Pirut 1. Browse Software 2. Dependancies 3. Search Software 4. List Software 19. Updating Software With Pup 1. Update Notification 2. The package updater I'm going to reply to my own post so I don't muddy the original purpose of this thread. Cheers, Marc ________________________________________________________________________ From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Dec 11 13:54:11 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:54:11 +0900 Subject: Dug contents In-Reply-To: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 22:41 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey all, > > I changed to a new title since I want to flesh out some content that > needs to be done in order to complete the DuG. I'm hoping that I can > get some work done this week. I think in two weeks it should be ready > since next week I'll be on holidays at home on my own :-) > > Table of Contents > 1. Introduction > 1. About this document > 2. Desktops - Description of Gnome and Kde (could add XFCE) > 3. Logging into the Desktop > 1. Logging in > 2. Loggin in: An Explanation > 3. I cannot login: Help! > 4. Tour of the GNOME Desktop - Associate things relating to gnome. > Trash, icons etc. There used to be video tours of Gnome, KDE ???? Can this be linked to the marketing group for showing the new Gnome, KDE? > 5. Tour of the KDE Desktop - Kicker minimal icons? Lacks pictures seems very bland. I haven't used KDE for a long time is there a way to spice it up??? > 6. Tour of the Xfce Desktop - > 1. XFCE desktop panel > 2. Xfce Window list Panel Nice looking desktop is there a way of using the tour that we used for marketing if possible? > 7. Using Media > 1. Understanding > 2. Exploring Media > 3. Writing CD's > 4. Using Nautilus in Gnome > 5. Using K3b in KDE > 6. Using Gnomebaker in Gnome USB sticks? Creating CD's? not mp3 not sure if this is legal but just asking. > 8. Connecting to Internet > 1. Configuring Internet access > 2. Configuring PPPoE > 3. DHCP Connection > 4. Static IP Don't think static ip's can be done 'easily' with the new networkmanager. Lots of discussion on devel if I remember correctly. > 5. Wireless Big job but mostly for me it works out of the box so I'm not sure what to achieve here? > 6. VPN No content needs content since I use it a fair bit. > 7. Network Manager New F8 features. Is there a feature list available from the packager maybe? > 9. Accessing the Web > 1. Using firefox > 2. Navigating the web > 3. Tabs > 4. Exentions > 5. Going further Could useful links for fedora be put in here? Such as fedoraforum.org brief explanation. So on and on. > 10. Communications (Email, IM) > 1. Evolution > 1. Using Evolution Needs content? > 2. Pidgin > 1. Configuring Pidgin > 2. Using Pidgin Needs content > 11. Office Tools > 1. Openoffice description then a reference to a website Very limited info. Can we link templates or openoffice extras > 12. Financial Software > 1. Gnucash > 2. Kmymoney Needs content > 13. Playing Multimedia (Music & Video) > 1. Playing audio cd's > 1. Converting audio cd's to music files > 2. Organizing your multimedia files > 1. playing videos > 3. Fedora's approach to multimedia support > 4. Further Info gtkpod? I believe it is shipped or going to be shipped within fedora. > 14. Playing Games > 1. Brief description of default games minimal content needs to fill it out. > 15. Managing Photos > 1. Connecting your Camera Can we give examples of different cameras? > 2. Organizing and Importing Photos > 1. Selecting a Filing Method > 2. Categorizing your photos Mugshot? > 16. Sharing Your Desktop Needs content > 17. Customizing the Desktop > 1. Changing your theme > 2. Changing the background > 3. Customizing file browsing behavior Can we give an explanation or an example walk through to make fedora really nice. Also would be great with pics of some desktops that look good. > 18. Managing Software With Pirut > 1. Browse Software > 2. Dependancies > 3. Search Software > 4. List Software iscussion about disabling cdrom repo? Also could be used like a FAQ for continued questions > 19. Updating Software With Pup > 1. Update Notification > 2. The package updater > Again same issues as above. How to disable it or enabled it amybe? I would love some feedback on additional programs used to improve the DUG Cheers, Marc From dan at new2linux.com Tue Dec 11 14:18:47 2007 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 09:18:47 -0500 Subject: Dug contents In-Reply-To: <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 22:41 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> Hey all, >> >> I changed to a new title since I want to flesh out some content that >> needs to be done in order to complete the DuG. I'm hoping that I can >> get some work done this week. I think in two weeks it should be ready >> since next week I'll be on holidays at home on my own :-) >> >> Table of Contents >> 1. Introduction >> 1. About this document >> 2. Desktops - Description of Gnome and Kde (could add XFCE) >> 3. Logging into the Desktop >> 1. Logging in >> 2. Loggin in: An Explanation >> 3. I cannot login: Help! >> 4. Tour of the GNOME Desktop - Associate things relating to gnome. >> Trash, icons etc. >> > > There used to be video tours of Gnome, KDE ???? Can this be linked to > the marketing group for showing the new Gnome, KDE? > > >> 5. Tour of the KDE Desktop - Kicker minimal icons? >> > > Lacks pictures seems very bland. I haven't used KDE for a long time is > there a way to spice it up??? > I refrained from adding to many pictures because I saw something mentioned in another post about it being harder when it comes to translating the document. I can definitely add more pics if you'd like? I still have some from when I did this page originally. > >> 6. Tour of the Xfce Desktop - >> 1. XFCE desktop panel >> 2. Xfce Window list Panel >> > > Nice looking desktop is there a way of using the tour that we used for > marketing if possible? > > >> 7. Using Media >> 1. Understanding >> 2. Exploring Media >> 3. Writing CD's >> 4. Using Nautilus in Gnome >> 5. Using K3b in KDE >> 6. Using Gnomebaker in Gnome >> > > USB sticks? > Creating CD's? not mp3 not sure if this is legal but just asking. > > > >> 8. Connecting to Internet >> 1. Configuring Internet access >> 2. Configuring PPPoE >> 3. DHCP Connection >> 4. Static IP >> > > Don't think static ip's can be done 'easily' with the new > networkmanager. Lots of discussion on devel if I remember correctly. > > >> 5. Wireless >> > > Big job but mostly for me it works out of the box so I'm not sure what > to achieve here? > There's no way we could possibly explain all the ways on getting wireless working in Fedora. Maybe a document that explains how to get things working for cards that work out of the box, and a link to the madwifi, ndiswrapper, etc. sites? > >> 6. VPN >> > > No content needs content since I use it a fair bit. > > >> 7. Network Manager >> > > New F8 features. Is there a feature list available from the packager > maybe? > > >> 9. Accessing the Web >> 1. Using firefox >> 2. Navigating the web >> 3. Tabs >> 4. Exentions >> 5. Going further >> > > Could useful links for fedora be put in here? Such as fedoraforum.org > brief explanation. So on and on. > > >> 10. Communications (Email, IM) >> 1. Evolution >> 1. Using Evolution >> > Needs content? > >> 2. Pidgin >> 1. Configuring Pidgin >> 2. Using Pidgin >> > Needs content > >> 11. Office Tools >> 1. Openoffice description then a reference to a website >> > > Very limited info. Can we link templates or openoffice extras > > >> 12. Financial Software >> 1. Gnucash >> 2. Kmymoney >> > > Needs content > > >> 13. Playing Multimedia (Music & Video) >> 1. Playing audio cd's >> 1. Converting audio cd's to music files >> 2. Organizing your multimedia files >> 1. playing videos >> 3. Fedora's approach to multimedia support >> 4. Further Info >> > > gtkpod? I believe it is shipped or going to be shipped within fedora. > Yes gtkpod is shipped with Fedora (starting with f7 I believe). >> 14. Playing Games >> 1. Brief description of default games >> > > minimal content needs to fill it out. > > >> 15. Managing Photos >> 1. Connecting your Camera >> > > Can we give examples of different cameras? > > >> 2. Organizing and Importing Photos >> 1. Selecting a Filing Method >> 2. Categorizing your photos >> > > Mugshot? > > >> 16. Sharing Your Desktop >> > > Needs content > > >> 17. Customizing the Desktop >> 1. Changing your theme >> 2. Changing the background >> 3. Customizing file browsing behavior >> > > Can we give an explanation or an example walk through to make fedora > really nice. Also would be great with pics of some desktops that look > good. > Should things like compiz and emerald, be added as well? > >> 18. Managing Software With Pirut >> 1. Browse Software >> 2. Dependancies >> 3. Search Software >> 4. List Software >> > > iscussion about disabling cdrom repo? Also could be used like a FAQ for > continued questions > > >> 19. Updating Software With Pup >> 1. Update Notification >> 2. The package updater >> >> > Again same issues as above. How to disable it or enabled it amybe? > > I would love some feedback on additional programs used to improve the DUG > > Cheers, > > > Marc > > From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 11 18:13:54 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 10:13:54 -0800 Subject: Dug contents In-Reply-To: <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> References: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1197396834.3078.166.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 09:18 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > I refrained from adding to many pictures because I saw something > mentioned in another post about it being harder > when it comes to translating the document. I can definitely add more > pics if you'd like? I still have some from > when I did this page originally. We called out this type of page as being an exception to the rule. It is useful to show the pieces of the desktop when describing how it all works. This use to be how the GNOME intro was handled, but it looks as if those were removed. Sorry about the confusion; let's see if this clears it up, then I can update the appropriate StyleGuide pages. For example, imagine a section in a document that explains how to use a mouse. It would be useful to show a picture of the mouse icons and explain what they mean -- the arrow, the clicking HTML hand, the timer, etc. When that document section gets to explaining about the mouse preferences dialog, there is no need to show the GUI; explaining it is better, for the reasons you allude to about pictures being harder to deal with in many ways. If the section was on "understanding GUI elements" then you would certainly show GUI elements in explaining. In this way, the images work as simple diagrams. A diagram is something useful in a document, where a screenshot often is more trouble than it is worth. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Dec 11 21:36:53 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:36:53 +0900 Subject: Dug contents In-Reply-To: <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> References: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1197409013.3144.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > >> 17. Customizing the Desktop > >> 1. Changing your theme > >> 2. Changing the background > >> 3. Customizing file browsing behavior > >> > > > > Can we give an explanation or an example walk through to make fedora > > really nice. Also would be great with pics of some desktops that look > > good. > > > Should things like compiz and emerald, be added as well? Yeah I was mainly thinking of doing a quick guide to add gdesklets etc. Not sure if that would fit with the DuG but I don't think it would fit within the AG. > > > >> 18. Managing Software With Pirut > >> 1. Browse Software > >> 2. Dependancies > >> 3. Search Software > >> 4. List Software > >> > > > > iscussion about disabling cdrom repo? Also could be used like a FAQ for > > continued questions > > > > > >> 19. Updating Software With Pup > >> 1. Update Notification > >> 2. The package updater > >> > >> > > Again same issues as above. How to disable it or enabled it amybe? > > > > I would love some feedback on additional programs used to improve the DUG > > Excuse typo's I was half asleep writing the original email and basically fell asleep while writing it. Cheers, Marc From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 11 23:53:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 15:53:22 -0800 Subject: stand up Message-ID: <1197417202.16180.4.camel@erato.phig.org> If you have interest in setting the direction of this project ... If you'd like to help lead a premier Linux documentation project ... Nominate yourself: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations I'm serious ... with a wink and a smile. ;-) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 00:03:35 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 19:03:35 -0500 Subject: Dug contents In-Reply-To: <1197396834.3078.166.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> <1197396834.3078.166.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1197417815.3312.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 10:13 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 09:18 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > > > I refrained from adding to many pictures because I saw something > > mentioned in another post about it being harder > > when it comes to translating the document. I can definitely add more > > pics if you'd like? I still have some from > > when I did this page originally. > > We called out this type of page as being an exception to the rule. It > is useful to show the pieces of the desktop when describing how it all > works. This use to be how the GNOME intro was handled, but it looks as > if those were removed. > > Sorry about the confusion; let's see if this clears it up, then I can > update the appropriate StyleGuide pages. > > For example, imagine a section in a document that explains how to use a > mouse. It would be useful to show a picture of the mouse icons and > explain what they mean -- the arrow, the clicking HTML hand, the timer, > etc. > > When that document section gets to explaining about the mouse > preferences dialog, there is no need to show the GUI; explaining it is > better, for the reasons you allude to about pictures being harder to > deal with in many ways. > > If the section was on "understanding GUI elements" then you would > certainly show GUI elements in explaining. > > In this way, the images work as simple diagrams. A diagram is something > useful in a document, where a screenshot often is more trouble than it > is worth. I wonder if we should try and trim this section down to a minimum -- there is an entire GNOME (or KDE, if KDE is installed) Desktop User Guide already installed on the system. The DUG would need to explain enough for the user to be able to use input devices -- mouse *and* keyboard, remember not everyone has or can use a mouse -- to locate the menu, choose System > Help, and select the Desktop User Guide (or equivalent KDE doc). The GNOME DUG is exceptional and rewriting it seems redundant. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 02:33:50 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 18:33:50 -0800 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> Moving over to f-docs-l for discussion. FAMSCo is politely requesting our slot to do their elections, since they are now ready; details below. If we had a full slate of candidates, I wouldn't want to move our election and would ask them to take it up after the 24th of December. However, we're a bit shy on candidates. Should we take the extra time? On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 17:32 -0800, Thomas Chung wrote: > Dear Docs Project Steering Committee. > > Fedora Ambassadors Project would like to have FAMSCo Election in next few days. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/SteeringCommittee/Election/2007Nominations > > I understand FDSCo Election is scheduled for between 14 and 24 December 2007. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations > > Would it be possible to reschedule FDSCo Election dates so that we can > have our FAMSCo Election between 12 and 19? ... then ... Thomas Chung wrote: > I just learned from Toshio that we can't have multiple election at the > same time. > > So if Board Election ends on 14th. > We can have FAMSco Election between 15th through 22nd. > Which gives more time Docs Teams to nominate more candidates. > Would it be possible to reschedule FDSCo Election dates after 24th? > -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 02:40:43 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 21:40:43 -0500 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 18:33 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > Moving over to f-docs-l for discussion. > > FAMSCo is politely requesting our slot to do their elections, since they > are now ready; details below. > > If we had a full slate of candidates, I wouldn't want to move our > election and would ask them to take it up after the 24th of December. > However, we're a bit shy on candidates. > > Should we take the extra time? Thanks for bringing this to the list. FWIW, I think we should decide at nomination closing time, 2359 UTC on 2007-12-12. If we don't have enough nominations, no reason to make a logjam. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Wed Dec 12 02:44:23 2007 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 20:44:23 -0600 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <475F4B07.9090903@fedoralinks.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 18:33 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: >> Moving over to f-docs-l for discussion. >> >> FAMSCo is politely requesting our slot to do their elections, since they >> are now ready; details below. >> >> If we had a full slate of candidates, I wouldn't want to move our >> election and would ask them to take it up after the 24th of December. >> However, we're a bit shy on candidates. >> >> Should we take the extra time? > > Thanks for bringing this to the list. FWIW, I think we should decide at > nomination closing time, 2359 UTC on 2007-12-12. If we don't have > enough nominations, no reason to make a logjam. > > I agree with Paul. Robert 'Bob' Jensen From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 03:47:08 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2007 22:47:08 -0500 Subject: Release Notes goof Message-ID: <1197431228.3966.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Apparently there was a validation error in one of the en_US XML files for the Docs release-notes module, F-8 branch. When I fixed it, it perturbed a few of the strings. Therefore, we will wait another week to roll a new package update, to give translators time to look at the changes and correct them. The problem may be constrained to just a handful of strings. I apologize for the inconvenience! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 05:41:27 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 08:41:27 +0300 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <475F4B07.9090903@fedoralinks.org> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475F4B07.9090903@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712112141s72070791kd5479a3eca51ce41@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 12, 2007 5:44 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 18:33 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > >> Moving over to f-docs-l for discussion. > >> > >> FAMSCo is politely requesting our slot to do their elections, since they > >> are now ready; details below. > >> > >> If we had a full slate of candidates, I wouldn't want to move our > >> election and would ask them to take it up after the 24th of December. > >> However, we're a bit shy on candidates. > >> > >> Should we take the extra time? > > > > Thanks for bringing this to the list. FWIW, I think we should decide at > > nomination closing time, 2359 UTC on 2007-12-12. If we don't have > > enough nominations, no reason to make a logjam. > > > > > > I agree with Paul. > > Robert 'Bob' Jensen > +1 From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Dec 12 09:17:20 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:17:20 +0900 Subject: stand up In-Reply-To: <1197417202.16180.4.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1197417202.16180.4.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1197451040.3144.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 15:53 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > If you have interest in setting the direction of this project ... > > If you'd like to help lead a premier Linux documentation project ... > > Nominate yourself: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations > > I'm serious ... with a wink and a smile. ;-) > > - Karsten > -- Do we have a list of how many nominations we should/usually have. So far there is only one nomination is that normally how many we have? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Dec 12 09:48:48 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 18:48:48 +0900 Subject: stand up In-Reply-To: <1197417202.16180.4.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1197417202.16180.4.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1197452928.3144.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 15:53 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > If you have interest in setting the direction of this project ... > > If you'd like to help lead a premier Linux documentation project ... > > Nominate yourself: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations > > I'm serious ... with a wink and a smile. ;-) > > - Karsten I've put myself up for nomination but I will withdraw if someone who I feel is more experienced steps up and there are no spots left. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Dec 12 10:17:31 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:17:31 +0900 Subject: Dug contents In-Reply-To: <1197417815.3312.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> <1197396834.3078.166.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197417815.3312.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197454651.3144.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 19:03 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 10:13 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 09:18 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > > > > > I refrained from adding to many pictures because I saw something > > > mentioned in another post about it being harder > > > when it comes to translating the document. I can definitely add more > > > pics if you'd like? I still have some from > > > when I did this page originally. > > > > We called out this type of page as being an exception to the rule. It > > is useful to show the pieces of the desktop when describing how it all > > works. This use to be how the GNOME intro was handled, but it looks as > > if those were removed. > > > > Sorry about the confusion; let's see if this clears it up, then I can > > update the appropriate StyleGuide pages. > > > > For example, imagine a section in a document that explains how to use a > > mouse. It would be useful to show a picture of the mouse icons and > > explain what they mean -- the arrow, the clicking HTML hand, the timer, > > etc. > > > > When that document section gets to explaining about the mouse > > preferences dialog, there is no need to show the GUI; explaining it is > > better, for the reasons you allude to about pictures being harder to > > deal with in many ways. > > > > If the section was on "understanding GUI elements" then you would > > certainly show GUI elements in explaining. > > > > In this way, the images work as simple diagrams. A diagram is something > > useful in a document, where a screenshot often is more trouble than it > > is worth. > > I wonder if we should try and trim this section down to a minimum -- > there is an entire GNOME (or KDE, if KDE is installed) Desktop User > Guide already installed on the system. The DUG would need to explain > enough for the user to be able to use input devices -- mouse *and* > keyboard, remember not everyone has or can use a mouse -- to locate the > menu, choose System > Help, and select the Desktop User Guide (or > equivalent KDE doc). The GNOME DUG is exceptional and rewriting it > seems redundant. Maybe in the KDE, XFCE and Gnome section the basic settings such as keyboard, screen resolution, mouse, sound and keyboard shortcuts should be added to each to show users where to go? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Dec 12 11:59:33 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 20:59:33 +0900 Subject: CentOS Message-ID: <1197460773.3144.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, http://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks Has a lot of info while not directly related to Fedora will help guide people to do certain tasks. I know they have copied the Red Hat docs as well and licensed them appropriately if someone is interested in having a look. Adjustments can be made or reference to the docs can be done possibly? Cheers, Marc From k5di at zianet.com Wed Dec 12 13:57:11 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 06:57:11 -0700 Subject: Dug contents In-Reply-To: <1197454651.3144.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> <1197396834.3078.166.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197417815.3312.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197454651.3144.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <475FE8B7.8040602@zianet.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 19:03 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 10:13 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: >> >>> On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 09:18 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: >>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I refrained from adding to many pictures because I saw something >>>> mentioned in another post about it being harder >>>> when it comes to translating the document. I can definitely add more >>>> pics if you'd like? I still have some from >>>> when I did this page originally. >>>> >>> We called out this type of page as being an exception to the rule. It >>> is useful to show the pieces of the desktop when describing how it all >>> works. This use to be how the GNOME intro was handled, but it looks as >>> if those were removed. >>> >>> Sorry about the confusion; let's see if this clears it up, then I can >>> update the appropriate StyleGuide pages. >>> >>> For example, imagine a section in a document that explains how to use a >>> mouse. It would be useful to show a picture of the mouse icons and >>> explain what they mean -- the arrow, the clicking HTML hand, the timer, >>> etc. >>> >>> When that document section gets to explaining about the mouse >>> preferences dialog, there is no need to show the GUI; explaining it is >>> better, for the reasons you allude to about pictures being harder to >>> deal with in many ways. >>> >>> If the section was on "understanding GUI elements" then you would >>> certainly show GUI elements in explaining. >>> >>> In this way, the images work as simple diagrams. A diagram is something >>> useful in a document, where a screenshot often is more trouble than it >>> is worth. >>> >> I wonder if we should try and trim this section down to a minimum -- >> there is an entire GNOME (or KDE, if KDE is installed) Desktop User >> Guide already installed on the system. The DUG would need to explain >> enough for the user to be able to use input devices -- mouse *and* >> keyboard, remember not everyone has or can use a mouse -- to locate the >> menu, choose System > Help, and select the Desktop User Guide (or >> equivalent KDE doc). The GNOME DUG is exceptional and rewriting it >> seems redundant. >> > > Maybe in the KDE, XFCE and Gnome section the basic settings such as > keyboard, screen resolution, mouse, sound and keyboard shortcuts should > be added to each to show users where to go? > > Cheers, > > Marc > > > I am so new to Help I had no idea what a Dug was. This message let me figure out it is the Desktop User Guide. Before that I had no idea. Now at least I can get to the Dug and comment on it. I like all the Help that is on the computer. I dislike Help that causes the web browser to be sent to a particular web page. The Help you need may include how to get ON the Internet :-) You need to know it exists to find Dug. It is sort of a Gnome Help. What about the guys using KDE? In any case it appears I have some reading ahead to learn what exists now. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Dec 12 14:26:05 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 17:26:05 +0300 Subject: Dug contents In-Reply-To: <475FE8B7.8040602@zianet.com> References: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> <1197396834.3078.166.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197417815.3312.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197454651.3144.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475FE8B7.8040602@zianet.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712120626i43ceb760u9a44a3d7eec66320@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 12, 2007 4:57 PM, Karl Larsen wrote: > I am so new to Help I had no idea what a Dug was. This message let > me figure out it is the Desktop User Guide. Before that I had no idea. > Now at least I can get to the Dug and comment on it. > > I like all the Help that is on the computer. I dislike Help that > causes the web browser to be sent to a particular web page. The Help > you need may include how to get ON the Internet :-) > > You need to know it exists to find Dug. It is sort of a Gnome Help. > What about the guys using KDE? > > In any case it appears I have some reading ahead to learn what > exists now. > Karl: First of all, welcome to the Fedora Docs Project. I am the lead writer for the Desktop User Guide (DUG) and am delighted with the renewed interest in getting the DUG up-to-date and complete for Fedora 8. Here are links to the mailing list where I try to explain what's going on with the DUG. The second one is probably more useful. http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-December/msg00035.html http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-December/msg00047.html A good way to get up-to-speed with what's happening around the Fedora Project, including the Documentation Project, is the Fedora Weekly News (FWN). You can always see the most current edition at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/LatestIssue Don't worry if you can't make heads nor tails of some of the articles in the FWN - neither can I. The important thing is to get a sense of what the priorities are at the moment. One of the priorities for the Docs Project right now is to finish up the DUG so we can publish it before the release of Fedora 9. I hope that helps. Best Regards, John Babich Lead writer, Fedora Desktop User Guide Volunteer, Fedora Project From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 15:06:55 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:06:55 -0800 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712112141s72070791kd5479a3eca51ce41@mail.gmail.com> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475F4B07.9090903@fedoralinks.org> <9d2c731f0712112141s72070791kd5479a3eca51ce41@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1197472015.31357.35.camel@erato.phig.org> As per this consensus, we'll proceed until the previously decided nomination closing time (23:59 UTC today) to see if enough candidates appear to stand for FDSCo election. If not, we'll postpone FDSCo elections until the end of the month, freeing up the voting system for others to use. On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 08:41 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On Dec 12, 2007 5:44 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 18:33 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > >> Moving over to f-docs-l for discussion. > > >> > > >> FAMSCo is politely requesting our slot to do their elections, since they > > >> are now ready; details below. > > >> > > >> If we had a full slate of candidates, I wouldn't want to move our > > >> election and would ask them to take it up after the 24th of December. > > >> However, we're a bit shy on candidates. > > >> > > >> Should we take the extra time? > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this to the list. FWIW, I think we should decide at > > > nomination closing time, 2359 UTC on 2007-12-12. If we don't have > > > enough nominations, no reason to make a logjam. > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Paul. > > > > Robert 'Bob' Jensen > > > +1 > -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 15:08:12 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:08:12 -0800 Subject: stand up In-Reply-To: <1197451040.3144.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197417202.16180.4.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197451040.3144.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197472092.31357.38.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 18:17 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 15:53 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > If you have interest in setting the direction of this project ... > > > > If you'd like to help lead a premier Linux documentation project ... > > > > Nominate yourself: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations > > > > I'm serious ... with a wink and a smile. ;-) > > > > - Karsten > > -- > > Do we have a list of how many nominations we should/usually have. So > far there is only one nomination is that normally how many we have? Ideally we'd have enough for the three seats that are open. To have a choice amongst candidates, we'd need four or more. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 15:09:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:09:22 -0800 Subject: stand up In-Reply-To: <1197452928.3144.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197417202.16180.4.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197452928.3144.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197472162.31357.40.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 18:48 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 15:53 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > If you have interest in setting the direction of this project ... > > > > If you'd like to help lead a premier Linux documentation project ... > > > > Nominate yourself: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations > > > > I'm serious ... with a wink and a smile. ;-) > > > > - Karsten > > I've put myself up for nomination but I will withdraw if someone who I > feel is more experienced steps up and there are no spots left. I'm glad you did. :) It looks as if we are going to postpone until the end of the month. That would give us extra time to discuss wtf good FDSCo does and why someone might want to join and contribute. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 15:44:09 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 07:44:09 -0800 Subject: Dug contents In-Reply-To: <1197454651.3144.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> <1197396834.3078.166.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197417815.3312.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197454651.3144.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197474249.31357.65.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 19:17 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 19:03 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > equivalent KDE doc). The GNOME DUG is exceptional and rewriting it > > seems redundant. > > Maybe in the KDE, XFCE and Gnome section the basic settings such as > keyboard, screen resolution, mouse, sound and keyboard shortcuts should > be added to each to show users where to go? Once upon a time we decided that was too low level for Fedora, that we had to presume our users had *some* computer experience and that Fedora wasn't the first time they had booted an OS. Myself, I'd steer clear from working at that level of content. But maybe the time has come for it? Let's discuss. As for the existing GNOME and KDE DUGs, that is a good point Paul makes. I don't think we ever intended to duplicate that guide. Obviously, there is much more to a Fedora desktop user experience than the GNOME/KDE DUG can cover. Maybe we should focus on what the GNOME/KDE DUG does not provide, and use them together, with our DUG referring liberally to the GNOME and KDE DUGs. Unfortunately, these GNOME and KDE docs are under the current GNU Free Documentation License (GFDL) and cannot be modified by Fedora. This is because we cannot use the GFDL, so would not be able to adhere to the terms of the license. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 19:07:12 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 11:07:12 -0800 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <1197472015.31357.35.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475F4B07.9090903@fedoralinks.org> <9d2c731f0712112141s72070791kd5479a3eca51ce41@mail.gmail.com> <1197472015.31357.35.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1197486432.31357.111.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 07:06 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > As per this consensus, we'll proceed until the previously decided > nomination closing time (23:59 UTC today) to see if enough candidates > appear to stand for FDSCo election. If not, we'll postpone FDSCo > elections until the end of the month, freeing up the voting system for > others to use. I'm a bit torn here, showing my indecisive side quite clearly: * We have not enough candidates for an election (3 nominations, 3 seats, so voting isn't useful) * To fill up the nominations is feeling very rushed, with four hours left to go * People on this project are not fully aware of the election * Serious people have put up their names for nomination, and they deserve respect and a fair/useful election * Putting off until 24 Dec. or later for elections really means we want to wait until the New Year, which is _very_far_off_ our schedule of "just after the release." Oops. * FAMSCo seems ready to go and chomping at the bit * If we postpone we risk losing the momentum we have * Someone is potentially upset with the outcome no matter what the decision Oops, sorry, the last point is just my "place of always being stuck" as a leader. :) Tick tick tick ... - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Wed Dec 12 19:14:28 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:14:28 -0700 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <1197486432.31357.111.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475F4B07.9090903@fedoralinks.org> <9d2c731f0712112141s72070791kd5479a3eca51ce41@mail.gmail.com> <1197472015.31357.35.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197486432.31357.111.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47603314.3050003@zianet.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 07:06 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > >> As per this consensus, we'll proceed until the previously decided >> nomination closing time (23:59 UTC today) to see if enough candidates >> appear to stand for FDSCo election. If not, we'll postpone FDSCo >> elections until the end of the month, freeing up the voting system for >> others to use. >> > > I'm a bit torn here, showing my indecisive side quite clearly: > > * We have not enough candidates for an election (3 nominations, 3 seats, > so voting isn't useful) > I agree that voting is not required IF the rules accept the current situation of no contested seat. But voting might be useful if a voter can choose to vote for another person, or vote against the person running. If voting is required by rules then do it asap. Before one of the three have have cold feet :-) Karl > * To fill up the nominations is feeling very rushed, with four hours > left to go > > * People on this project are not fully aware of the election > > * Serious people have put up their names for nomination, and they > deserve respect and a fair/useful election > > * Putting off until 24 Dec. or later for elections really means we want > to wait until the New Year, which is _very_far_off_ our schedule of > "just after the release." Oops. > > * FAMSCo seems ready to go and chomping at the bit > > * If we postpone we risk losing the momentum we have > > * Someone is potentially upset with the outcome no matter what the > decision > > Oops, sorry, the last point is just my "place of always being stuck" as > a leader. :) > > Tick tick tick ... > > - Karsten > -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Dec 12 20:03:00 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 09:03:00 +1300 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <1197486432.31357.111.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475F4B07.9090903@fedoralinks.org> <9d2c731f0712112141s72070791kd5479a3eca51ce41@mail.gmail.com> <1197472015.31357.35.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197486432.31357.111.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47603E74.3040908@mkc.co.nz> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 07:06 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: >> As per this consensus, we'll proceed until the previously decided >> nomination closing time (23:59 UTC today) to see if enough candidates >> appear to stand for FDSCo election. If not, we'll postpone FDSCo >> elections until the end of the month, freeing up the voting system for >> others to use. > > I'm a bit torn here, showing my indecisive side quite clearly: > > * We have not enough candidates for an election (3 nominations, 3 seats, > so voting isn't useful) > 6 ought to be enough for anybody! :-) Vladimir > * To fill up the nominations is feeling very rushed, with four hours > left to go > > * People on this project are not fully aware of the election > > * Serious people have put up their names for nomination, and they > deserve respect and a fair/useful election > > * Putting off until 24 Dec. or later for elections really means we want > to wait until the New Year, which is _very_far_off_ our schedule of > "just after the release." Oops. > > * FAMSCo seems ready to go and chomping at the bit > > * If we postpone we risk losing the momentum we have > > * Someone is potentially upset with the outcome no matter what the > decision > > Oops, sorry, the last point is just my "place of always being stuck" as > a leader. :) > > Tick tick tick ... > > - Karsten > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 20:03:48 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:03:48 -0800 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <47603314.3050003@zianet.com> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475F4B07.9090903@fedoralinks.org> <9d2c731f0712112141s72070791kd5479a3eca51ce41@mail.gmail.com> <1197472015.31357.35.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197486432.31357.111.camel@erato.phig.org> <47603314.3050003@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1197489828.31357.148.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 12:14 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > > > I agree that voting is not required IF the rules accept the current > situation of no contested seat. But voting might be useful if a voter > can choose to vote for another person, or vote against the person running. I should have been clearer about the voting system. The application uses 'approval voting'[1]. So, there is a little value in voting even when there are the same number of candidates as seats. For example, someone could get zero votes and not earn a seat. It would also rank the candidates by approval, although that doesn't matter here since ranking has no other effect. Last election it did, since the three lowest ranked seats are the ones up for election currently. - Karsten [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Approval_voting -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 12 20:11:46 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 12:11:46 -0800 Subject: Voting System Conflicts In-Reply-To: <1197472015.31357.35.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <369bce3b0712111732h5fe0e64cw10fcedf1211549a0@mail.gmail.com> <1197426830.16180.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197427243.3966.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475F4B07.9090903@fedoralinks.org> <9d2c731f0712112141s72070791kd5479a3eca51ce41@mail.gmail.com> <1197472015.31357.35.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1197490306.31357.155.camel@erato.phig.org> (Evilly cross-posted to f-docs-l and f-marketing-l.) On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 07:06 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > As per this consensus, we'll proceed until the previously decided > nomination closing time (23:59 UTC today) to see if enough candidates > appear to stand for FDSCo election. If not, we'll postpone FDSCo > elections until the end of the month, freeing up the voting system for > others to use. We are on the path to having an election. Four people have self-nominated: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations Unless the consensus changes, we'll close the nominations in four hours and move to the voting phase in two days. I hope this doesn't put too much of a twist in FAMSCo's plans. FWIW, it was never clear to me/us why the request was made. - Karsten > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 08:41 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > On Dec 12, 2007 5:44 AM, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 18:33 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > >> Moving over to f-docs-l for discussion. > > > >> > > > >> FAMSCo is politely requesting our slot to do their elections, since they > > > >> are now ready; details below. > > > >> > > > >> If we had a full slate of candidates, I wouldn't want to move our > > > >> election and would ask them to take it up after the 24th of December. > > > >> However, we're a bit shy on candidates. > > > >> > > > >> Should we take the extra time? > > > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this to the list. FWIW, I think we should decide at > > > > nomination closing time, 2359 UTC on 2007-12-12. If we don't have > > > > enough nominations, no reason to make a logjam. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I agree with Paul. > > > > > > Robert 'Bob' Jensen > > > > > +1 > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Dec 12 21:38:55 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:38:55 +0900 Subject: XFCE - (Dug) Message-ID: <1197495535.2992.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, Quick question I've started to add some screenshots to the XFCE guide though I'm not to sure that they are correct. As per the screenshot I have uploaded it doesn't match what is written. Can someone double check if they have XFCE that when I installed last night the screenshot is the default? E.g. The Xfce desktop has three distinct areas. From top to bottom, the areas are: * The menu panel * The desktop area * The window list panel The menu panel and window list panel are opposites on mine. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Dec 12 21:47:34 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 06:47:34 +0900 Subject: XFCE - (Dug) In-Reply-To: <1197495535.2992.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197495535.2992.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197496054.2992.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-12-13 at 06:38 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey all, > > Quick question I've started to add some screenshots to the XFCE guide > though I'm not to sure that they are correct. > > As per the screenshot I have uploaded it doesn't match what is written. > Can someone double check if they have XFCE that when I installed last > night the screenshot is the default? > > E.g. > The Xfce desktop has three distinct areas. From top to bottom, the areas > are: > > * The menu panel > > * The desktop area > > * The window list panel > > The menu panel and window list panel are opposites on mine. > I should have added the link. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop From stickster at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 00:14:22 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:14:22 -0500 Subject: CentOS In-Reply-To: <1197460773.3144.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197460773.3144.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197504862.3491.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 20:59 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey all, > > http://wiki.centos.org/TipsAndTricks > > Has a lot of info while not directly related to Fedora will help guide > people to do certain tasks. > > I know they have copied the Red Hat docs as well and licensed them > appropriately if someone is interested in having a look. > > Adjustments can be made or reference to the docs can be done possibly? CentOS doesn't *license* the Red Hat docs, actually. Only someone who holds copyright over a work can license it. The CentOS project copies the Red Hat documentation verbatim, which is allowed under the license which Red Hat gave the docs. According to the license used, no one is permitted to adjust the docs without the permission of the copyright holder. As for their wiki docs, they are under a CC BY-SA 3.0 license -- which may be compatible with OPL without restrictions, but we'd need a lawyer to make that call. Nothing prevents us from linking though! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 00:24:02 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:24:02 -0500 Subject: Dug contents In-Reply-To: <1197474249.31357.65.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1197380471.3144.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197381251.3144.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <475E9C47.8060905@new2linux.com> <1197396834.3078.166.camel@erato.phig.org> <1197417815.3312.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197454651.3144.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197474249.31357.65.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1197505442.3491.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 07:44 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-12 at 19:17 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-12-11 at 19:03 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > equivalent KDE doc). The GNOME DUG is exceptional and rewriting it > > > seems redundant. > > > > Maybe in the KDE, XFCE and Gnome section the basic settings such as > > keyboard, screen resolution, mouse, sound and keyboard shortcuts should > > be added to each to show users where to go? > > Once upon a time we decided that was too low level for Fedora, that we > had to presume our users had *some* computer experience and that Fedora > wasn't the first time they had booted an OS. > > Myself, I'd steer clear from working at that level of content. But > maybe the time has come for it? Let's discuss. > > As for the existing GNOME and KDE DUGs, that is a good point Paul makes. > I don't think we ever intended to duplicate that guide. Obviously, > there is much more to a Fedora desktop user experience than the > GNOME/KDE DUG can cover. Maybe we should focus on what the GNOME/KDE > DUG does not provide, and use them together, with our DUG referring > liberally to the GNOME and KDE DUGs. Absolutely, Fedora is more than just GNOME/KDE/XFCE/et al.! I think this strategy is the best one -- to build on what already exists -- the FOSS way, eh? Then the DUG can concentrate on getting the user familiar with the default environment. > Unfortunately, these GNOME and KDE docs are under the current GNU Free > Documentation License (GFDL) and cannot be modified by Fedora. This is > because we cannot use the GFDL, so would not be able to adhere to the > terms of the license. Yes, it's too bad about this, really. But we can look on the bright side, which is that if we run into a situation where the GNOME/KDE/etc. DUG doesn't suffice as a reference, we can always submit patches upstream, much as Fedora does for code, thus improving the docs ecosphere for everyone. (Why yes, the world *does* look rosy today!) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Dec 13 00:26:43 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 19:26:43 -0500 Subject: XFCE - (Dug) In-Reply-To: <1197496054.2992.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197495535.2992.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197496054.2992.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1197505603.3491.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-12-13 at 06:47 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Thu, 2007-12-13 at 06:38 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > Quick question I've started to add some screenshots to the XFCE guide > > though I'm not to sure that they are correct. > > > > As per the screenshot I have uploaded it doesn't match what is written. > > Can someone double check if they have XFCE that when I installed last > > night the screenshot is the default? > > > > E.g. > > The Xfce desktop has three distinct areas. From top to bottom, the areas > > are: > > > > * The menu panel > > > > * The desktop area > > > > * The window list panel > > > > The menu panel and window list panel are opposites on mine. > > > I should have added the link. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop To check the default setup, create a brand new user account, and login to that account in an XFCE session. This is actually a good way to test default setup for any documentation! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Thu Dec 13 20:05:43 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:05:43 -0700 Subject: XFCE - (Dug) In-Reply-To: <1197505603.3491.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197495535.2992.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197496054.2992.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1197505603.3491.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <47619097.3090309@zianet.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2007-12-13 at 06:47 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> On Thu, 2007-12-13 at 06:38 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> >>> Hey all, >>> >>> Quick question I've started to add some screenshots to the XFCE guide >>> though I'm not to sure that they are correct. >>> >>> As per the screenshot I have uploaded it doesn't match what is written. >>> Can someone double check if they have XFCE that when I installed last >>> night the screenshot is the default? >>> >>> E.g. >>> The Xfce desktop has three distinct areas. From top to bottom, the areas >>> are: >>> >>> * The menu panel >>> >>> * The desktop area >>> >>> * The window list panel >>> >>> The menu panel and window list panel are opposites on mine. >>> >>> >> I should have added the link. >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop >> > > To check the default setup, create a brand new user account, and login > to that account in an XFCE session. This is actually a good way to test > default setup for any documentation! > > Hello Paul, I just looked at what you have and to my un-trained eye it looks just fine. I don't have a XFCE window so I can't check that :-) Also having a bad time with Thunderbird. Messages to this group winding up on the main Fedora List. It is my fault I think... Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 17:10:05 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:10:05 -0500 Subject: Relnotes content feed spam Message-ID: <1197652205.428.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Is there any way to cut down or stop spam to our relnotes content list feed? Is it because we don't require membership so that we can feed content from non-human sources? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Dec 14 17:08:46 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 11:08:46 -0600 Subject: Relnotes content feed spam In-Reply-To: <1197652205.428.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197652205.428.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4762B89E.80108@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Is there any way to cut down or stop spam to our relnotes content list > feed? Is it because we don't require membership so that we can feed > content from non-human sources? > Aside from requiring membership there might be some spam headers built in from Red Hat's scanner to deny some mail if it goes through the normal list. Is it going to an @redhat.com or an @fedoraproject.org address? Example headers: X-RedHat-NoId: 209.197.145.189 sent message with No ID X-RedHat-Spam-Warning: 9.7 (*********) ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2,ADVANCE_FEE_3,ADVANCE_FEE_4,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID,NA_DOLLARS,NO_REAL_NAME,RAZOR2_CHECK,SARE_SUB_NEED_REPLY,UNDISC_RECIPS X-RedHat-Spam-Score: 9.7 ********* -Mike From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 20:10:34 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 15:10:34 -0500 Subject: Relnotes content feed spam In-Reply-To: <4762B89E.80108@redhat.com> References: <1197652205.428.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4762B89E.80108@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1197663034.428.130.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 11:08 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Is there any way to cut down or stop spam to our relnotes content list > > feed? Is it because we don't require membership so that we can feed > > content from non-human sources? > > > > Aside from requiring membership there might be some spam headers built > in from Red Hat's scanner to deny some mail if it goes through the > normal list. Is it going to an @redhat.com or an @fedoraproject.org > address? > > Example headers: > > X-RedHat-NoId: 209.197.145.189 sent message with No ID > X-RedHat-Spam-Warning: 9.7 (*********) ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2,ADVANCE_FEE_3,ADVANCE_FEE_4,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID,NA_DOLLARS,NO_REAL_NAME,RAZOR2_CHECK,SARE_SUB_NEED_REPLY,UNDISC_RECIPS > X-RedHat-Spam-Score: 9.7 ********* The address for the content is fedora-relnotes-content (at) rh d0t com. The mail we're getting in is being stripped of its HTML attachments, so whatever AV solution is there, seems to be working fine. It would be nice to simply have these vanish before they get passed to the list, but honestly I'm not much of a mail mechanic. If this is worth a ticket for someone to investigate, I'll be happy to fill one out, but I don't want to create a difficult job for someone when my Del key suffices. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Dec 14 20:09:00 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:09:00 -0600 Subject: Relnotes content feed spam In-Reply-To: <1197663034.428.130.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197652205.428.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4762B89E.80108@redhat.com> <1197663034.428.130.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4762E2DC.9020104@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 11:08 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >>> Is there any way to cut down or stop spam to our relnotes content list >>> feed? Is it because we don't require membership so that we can feed >>> content from non-human sources? >>> >>> >> Aside from requiring membership there might be some spam headers built >> in from Red Hat's scanner to deny some mail if it goes through the >> normal list. Is it going to an @redhat.com or an @fedoraproject.org >> address? >> >> Example headers: >> >> X-RedHat-NoId: 209.197.145.189 sent message with No ID >> X-RedHat-Spam-Warning: 9.7 (*********) ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2,ADVANCE_FEE_3,ADVANCE_FEE_4,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID,NA_DOLLARS,NO_REAL_NAME,RAZOR2_CHECK,SARE_SUB_NEED_REPLY,UNDISC_RECIPS >> X-RedHat-Spam-Score: 9.7 ********* >> > > The address for the content is fedora-relnotes-content (at) rh d0t com. > The mail we're getting in is being stripped of its HTML attachments, so > whatever AV solution is there, seems to be working fine. It would be > nice to simply have these vanish before they get passed to the list, but > honestly I'm not much of a mail mechanic. If this is worth a ticket for > someone to investigate, I'll be happy to fill one out, but I don't want > to create a difficult job for someone when my Del key suffices. > My mailman foo is a little weak but I think the admin of that list can make rules to reject mail with the above headers listed in the message. I can assist with this if you guys are interested, I'll just need the list password. -Mike From k5di at zianet.com Fri Dec 14 21:58:47 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 14:58:47 -0700 Subject: console.perms Message-ID: <4762FC97.3030804@zianet.com> I used the info in info console.perms and from several other sources to teach me how to write a file that changes /dev/ttyS0 ownership from root to me when I am on the console. As it happens this is the devise in Fedora that lets you use a serial port which in windows talk is Com1. The info console.perms is written by Michael K. Johnson and I suspect he wrote the software. Alas what he wrote is real bad. It tells him what it does but it was way over my head. After reading a lot of other things I figured out how to use this software and it did work. But it took a whole day. I would like to re-write this console-perm man page from the pov of a user rather than the writer of the code. This I can do from what I did to make the serial port work. Is this something we do? Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 15 01:00:27 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 10:00:27 +0900 Subject: Voting Message-ID: <1197680427.3042.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, Voting has been opened at the following address. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/voting Cheers, Marc From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 01:57:53 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:57:53 -0500 Subject: console.perms In-Reply-To: <4762FC97.3030804@zianet.com> References: <4762FC97.3030804@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1197683873.428.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 14:58 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > I used the info in info console.perms and from several other sources > to teach me how to write a file that changes /dev/ttyS0 ownership from > root to me when I am on the console. As it happens this is the devise in > Fedora that lets you use a serial port which in windows talk is Com1. > > The info console.perms is written by Michael K. Johnson > and I suspect he wrote the software. Alas what he > wrote is real bad. It tells him what it does but it was way over my > head. After reading a lot of other things I figured out how to use this > software and it did work. But it took a whole day. > > I would like to re-write this console-perm man page from the pov of > a user rather than the writer of the code. This I can do from what I did > to make the serial port work. > > Is this something we do? I think any quality judgment of that man page is a really subjective measurement. For instance, I find it pretty darn informative, but if you asked me ten years ago, I'd probably argue with myself. The man pages use a specific style and tone that is particular to console users (power users, administrators, and developers), and the information they convey uses terminology that is somewhat consistent across the whole set. I have a feeling that trying to change that tone for one particular man page may not be a worthwhile effort. What I'd suggest, instead, is that you do one of the following: 1. (A little harder, but allows you to participate in this project:) Follow the steps at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join to join Fedora get wiki access, and make a tutorial page that explains this procedure in common user language. We can look at using that in future guides as appropriate. 2. (Easier:) Get yourself a weblog account at Wordpress.org or any of the other free blogging sites, and you can post advice on what you discover there, and share it with the world. Heck, you could do both if you wanted. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Sat Dec 15 02:34:22 2007 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 21:34:22 -0500 Subject: console.perms In-Reply-To: <4762FC97.3030804@zianet.com> References: <4762FC97.3030804@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1197686062.3925.4.camel@ignacio.lan> On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 14:58 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > I would like to re-write this console-perm man page from the pov of > a user rather than the writer of the code. This I can do from what I did > to make the serial port work. > > Is this something we do? pam_console is obsolescent. I'd rather see decent documentation for ConsoleKit. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Dec 15 04:45:41 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 20:45:41 -0800 Subject: Relnotes content feed spam In-Reply-To: <4762E2DC.9020104@redhat.com> References: <1197652205.428.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4762B89E.80108@redhat.com> <1197663034.428.130.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4762E2DC.9020104@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1197693941.27703.10.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 14:09 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 11:08 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > > > >> Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> > >>> Is there any way to cut down or stop spam to our relnotes content list > >>> feed? Is it because we don't require membership so that we can feed > >>> content from non-human sources? > >>> > >>> > >> Aside from requiring membership there might be some spam headers built > >> in from Red Hat's scanner to deny some mail if it goes through the > >> normal list. Is it going to an @redhat.com or an @fedoraproject.org > >> address? > >> > >> Example headers: > >> > >> X-RedHat-NoId: 209.197.145.189 sent message with No ID > >> X-RedHat-Spam-Warning: 9.7 (*********) ADVANCE_FEE_1,ADVANCE_FEE_2,ADVANCE_FEE_3,ADVANCE_FEE_4,MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER,MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID,NA_DOLLARS,NO_REAL_NAME,RAZOR2_CHECK,SARE_SUB_NEED_REPLY,UNDISC_RECIPS > >> X-RedHat-Spam-Score: 9.7 ********* > >> > > > > The address for the content is fedora-relnotes-content (at) rh d0t com. > > The mail we're getting in is being stripped of its HTML attachments, so > > whatever AV solution is there, seems to be working fine. It would be > > nice to simply have these vanish before they get passed to the list, but > > honestly I'm not much of a mail mechanic. If this is worth a ticket for > > someone to investigate, I'll be happy to fill one out, but I don't want > > to create a difficult job for someone when my Del key suffices. > > > > My mailman foo is a little weak but I think the admin of that list can > make rules to reject mail with the above headers listed in the message. > I can assist with this if you guys are interested, I'll just need the > list password. I haven't seen any of the SA headers in what goes through relnotes (at) fedoraproject.org, which feeds to fedora-relnotes-content (at) rh.c. It also seems to have HTML in the email, but maybe that's not an attachment? The open nature of the address is to: i. accept incoming email from unknown contributors ii. accept email from bugzilla - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 15 16:19:08 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 09:19:08 -0700 Subject: console.perms In-Reply-To: <1197683873.428.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4762FC97.3030804@zianet.com> <1197683873.428.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4763FE7C.3080505@zianet.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 14:58 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> I used the info in info console.perms and from several other sources >> to teach me how to write a file that changes /dev/ttyS0 ownership from >> root to me when I am on the console. As it happens this is the devise in >> Fedora that lets you use a serial port which in windows talk is Com1. >> >> The info console.perms is written by Michael K. Johnson >> and I suspect he wrote the software. Alas what he >> wrote is real bad. It tells him what it does but it was way over my >> head. After reading a lot of other things I figured out how to use this >> software and it did work. But it took a whole day. >> >> I would like to re-write this console-perm man page from the pov of >> a user rather than the writer of the code. This I can do from what I did >> to make the serial port work. >> >> Is this something we do? >> > > I think any quality judgment of that man page is a really subjective > measurement. For instance, I find it pretty darn informative, but if > you asked me ten years ago, I'd probably argue with myself. The man > pages use a specific style and tone that is particular to console users > (power users, administrators, and developers), and the information they > convey uses terminology that is somewhat consistent across the whole > set. I have a feeling that trying to change that tone for one > particular man page may not be a worthwhile effort. > > What I'd suggest, instead, is that you do one of the following: > > 1. (A little harder, but allows you to participate in this project:) > Follow the steps at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join to > join Fedora get wiki access, and make a tutorial page that explains this > procedure in common user language. We can look at using that in future > guides as appropriate. > > 2. (Easier:) Get yourself a weblog account at Wordpress.org or any of > the other free blogging sites, and you can post advice on what you > discover there, and share it with the world. > > Heck, you could do both if you wanted. > > I really do not need to be a member of the Fedora Documentation Project to write a blog on console.perms or anything else. The problem with a blog is finding it. What I wanted was the person who uses "man console.perms" should see an example of what is done. What exists assumes a good working knowledge of bash and, as you say is a power user. I'm not a power user. But I had a need to use this tool. I was happy it had a man page. I was unhappy it didn't tell me how to use it. It took Google and just rooting around to find out how the 50 examples works. If you need to be a power user to be on this Project, then I better quit. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 15 23:29:41 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 16:29:41 -0700 Subject: console.perms In-Reply-To: <4763FE7C.3080505@zianet.com> References: <4762FC97.3030804@zianet.com> <1197683873.428.196.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4763FE7C.3080505@zianet.com> Message-ID: <47646365.2070600@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Fri, 2007-12-14 at 14:58 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> I used the info in info console.perms and from several other sources >>> to teach me how to write a file that changes /dev/ttyS0 ownership >>> from root to me when I am on the console. As it happens this is the >>> devise in Fedora that lets you use a serial port which in windows >>> talk is Com1. >>> >>> The info console.perms is written by Michael K. Johnson >>> and I suspect he wrote the software. Alas what >>> he wrote is real bad. It tells him what it does but it was way over >>> my head. After reading a lot of other things I figured out how to >>> use this software and it did work. But it took a whole day. >>> >>> I would like to re-write this console-perm man page from the pov >>> of a user rather than the writer of the code. This I can do from >>> what I did to make the serial port work. >>> >>> Is this something we do? >>> >> >> I think any quality judgment of that man page is a really subjective >> measurement. For instance, I find it pretty darn informative, but if >> you asked me ten years ago, I'd probably argue with myself. The man >> pages use a specific style and tone that is particular to console users >> (power users, administrators, and developers), and the information they >> convey uses terminology that is somewhat consistent across the whole >> set. I have a feeling that trying to change that tone for one >> particular man page may not be a worthwhile effort. >> >> What I'd suggest, instead, is that you do one of the following: >> >> 1. (A little harder, but allows you to participate in this project:) >> Follow the steps at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join to >> join Fedora get wiki access, and make a tutorial page that explains this >> procedure in common user language. We can look at using that in future >> guides as appropriate. >> >> 2. (Easier:) Get yourself a weblog account at Wordpress.org or any of >> the other free blogging sites, and you can post advice on what you >> discover there, and share it with the world. >> >> Heck, you could do both if you wanted. >> >> > I really do not need to be a member of the Fedora Documentation > Project to write a blog on console.perms or anything else. The problem > with a blog is finding it. What I wanted was the person who uses "man > console.perms" should see an example of what is done. What exists > assumes a good working knowledge of bash and, as you say is a power user. > > I'm not a power user. But I had a need to use this tool. I was > happy it had a man page. I was unhappy it didn't tell me how to use > it. It took Google and just rooting around to find out how the 50 > examples works. > > If you need to be a power user to be on this Project, then I better > quit. > > Karl > > I went to the wiki page but they say it has been changed to make it much harder to join. I agree. My username is KarlLarsen and my password is wikipoop. Anyone who cares to can try and get on the wiki pages but I expect it will not work. I asked it to send me the stuff about I wrote by clicking on it and that has not worked either. If anyone can get on just let me know and I will try one more time :-( Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 16 12:28:59 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 04:28:59 -0800 Subject: not avail for 16-Dec FDSCo meeting Message-ID: <1197808139.27703.13.camel@erato.phig.org> Sorry, I won't be available to meet with FDSCo later today. Feel free to do your usual great job without me. :) -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 13:35:59 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 16:35:59 +0300 Subject: not avail for 16-Dec FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <1197808139.27703.13.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1197808139.27703.13.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712160535t752a6b0q5deafe6efd857dd4@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 16, 2007 3:28 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > Sorry, I won't be available to meet with FDSCo later today. Feel free > to do your usual great job without me. :) Should we have a FDSCo meeting today? Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 15:43:15 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 10:43:15 -0500 Subject: not avail for 16-Dec FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712160535t752a6b0q5deafe6efd857dd4@mail.gmail.com> References: <1197808139.27703.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0712160535t752a6b0q5deafe6efd857dd4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1197819795.23760.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-16 at 16:35 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On Dec 16, 2007 3:28 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > Sorry, I won't be available to meet with FDSCo later today. Feel free > > to do your usual great job without me. :) > > Should we have a FDSCo meeting today? In all honesty, I've had a weekend packed full of Fedora already, and I really need to get to some other things. I'd just as soon drive some more discussion on the list. Besides, with elections going on, this is a good time for an intake of breath before re-orienting ourselves after Christmas. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Dec 16 16:59:18 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 19:59:18 +0300 Subject: not avail for 16-Dec FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <1197819795.23760.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1197808139.27703.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0712160535t752a6b0q5deafe6efd857dd4@mail.gmail.com> <1197819795.23760.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712160859s7d9fa5c7sc80ad19210fa19a3@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 16, 2007 6:43 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2007-12-16 at 16:35 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > Should we have a FDSCo meeting today? > > In all honesty, I've had a weekend packed full of Fedora already, and I > really need to get to some other things. I'd just as soon drive some > more discussion on the list. Besides, with elections going on, this is > a good time for an intake of breath before re-orienting ourselves after > Christmas. > Let's cancel the meeting..I will get on IRC and announce it... BR, John Babich From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 17 20:12:58 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:12:58 -0700 Subject: wiki problems Message-ID: <4766D84A.1080902@zianet.com> Here is my latest wiki problem. I can get up to what appears to be my page because it has my wiki name in upper left which is KarlLarsen. Just below that is the words Create New Page. I click on that and get this error message: You are not allowed to edit this page. I'm at a stop now because I can't start. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 20:46:51 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:46:51 -0500 Subject: wiki problems In-Reply-To: <4766D84A.1080902@zianet.com> References: <4766D84A.1080902@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1197924411.2955.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:12 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > Here is my latest wiki problem. I can get up to what appears to be > my page because it has my wiki name in upper left which is KarlLarsen. > Just below that is the words Create New Page. > > I click on that and get this error message: > > You are not allowed to edit this page. > > I'm at a stop now because I can't start. I don't see your name listed in the Fedora Account System, Karl. Did you follow the instructions at the page to which I sent you a link earlier?: http://fedoraproject.org/DocsProject/Join If so, did you register under some other name? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 17 20:58:33 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:58:33 -0700 Subject: wiki problems In-Reply-To: <1197924411.2955.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4766D84A.1080902@zianet.com> <1197924411.2955.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4766E2F9.80701@zianet.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:12 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Here is my latest wiki problem. I can get up to what appears to be >> my page because it has my wiki name in upper left which is KarlLarsen. >> Just below that is the words Create New Page. >> >> I click on that and get this error message: >> >> You are not allowed to edit this page. >> >> I'm at a stop now because I can't start. >> > > I don't see your name listed in the Fedora Account System, Karl. Did > you follow the instructions at the page to which I sent you a link > earlier?: > http://fedoraproject.org/DocsProject/Join > If so, did you register under some other name? > > First, When I try to get to the web page you show I get a "Page does not exist" error and a lot of other choices. I have been getting to this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarlLarsen and it is the one that does not work. What do you recommend? Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 17 21:02:31 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:02:31 -0500 Subject: wiki problems In-Reply-To: <4766E2F9.80701@zianet.com> References: <4766D84A.1080902@zianet.com> <1197924411.2955.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766E2F9.80701@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1197925351.2955.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:58 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:12 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > > > >> Here is my latest wiki problem. I can get up to what appears to be > >> my page because it has my wiki name in upper left which is KarlLarsen. > >> Just below that is the words Create New Page. > >> > >> I click on that and get this error message: > >> > >> You are not allowed to edit this page. > >> > >> I'm at a stop now because I can't start. > >> > > > > I don't see your name listed in the Fedora Account System, Karl. Did > > you follow the instructions at the page to which I sent you a link > > earlier?: > > http://fedoraproject.org/DocsProject/Join > > If so, did you register under some other name? > > > > > First, When I try to get to the web page you show I get a "Page does > not exist" error and a lot of other choices. I'm sorry, that link should have been: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join Please try again. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 17 21:28:07 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 14:28:07 -0700 Subject: wiki problems In-Reply-To: <1197925351.2955.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4766D84A.1080902@zianet.com> <1197924411.2955.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766E2F9.80701@zianet.com> <1197925351.2955.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4766E9E7.6070009@zianet.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:58 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >>> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:12 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Here is my latest wiki problem. I can get up to what appears to be >>>> my page because it has my wiki name in upper left which is KarlLarsen. >>>> Just below that is the words Create New Page. >>>> >>>> I click on that and get this error message: >>>> >>>> You are not allowed to edit this page. >>>> >>>> I'm at a stop now because I can't start. >>>> >>>> >>> I don't see your name listed in the Fedora Account System, Karl. Did >>> you follow the instructions at the page to which I sent you a link >>> earlier?: >>> http://fedoraproject.org/DocsProject/Join >>> If so, did you register under some other name? >>> >>> >>> >> First, When I try to get to the web page you show I get a "Page does >> not exist" error and a lot of other choices. >> > > I'm sorry, that link should have been: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join > > Please try again. > > Well in another way I got to a page that seems to be a sign-up page and it does not like the things I put in for my GPG numbers. This is because I know shit-nothing about them except that if you just put $ gpg in a window it calculates a lot of things. I put my "finger" on my messages but that may be wrong too. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 17 21:44:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 13:44:22 -0800 Subject: not avail for 16-Dec FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712160859s7d9fa5c7sc80ad19210fa19a3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1197808139.27703.13.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0712160535t752a6b0q5deafe6efd857dd4@mail.gmail.com> <1197819795.23760.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0712160859s7d9fa5c7sc80ad19210fa19a3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1197927862.27703.17.camel@erato.phig.org> > Let's cancel the meeting..I will get on IRC and announce it... You guys rock. Thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 17 22:05:35 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:05:35 -0700 Subject: wiki problems In-Reply-To: <4766E9E7.6070009@zianet.com> References: <4766D84A.1080902@zianet.com> <1197924411.2955.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766E2F9.80701@zianet.com> <1197925351.2955.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766E9E7.6070009@zianet.com> Message-ID: <4766F2AF.1030908@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:58 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> Paul W. Frields wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:12 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >>>> >>>>> Here is my latest wiki problem. I can get up to what appears to be >>>>> my page because it has my wiki name in upper left which is >>>>> KarlLarsen. Just below that is the words Create New Page. >>>>> >>>>> I click on that and get this error message: >>>>> >>>>> You are not allowed to edit this page. >>>>> >>>>> I'm at a stop now because I can't start. >>>>> >>>> I don't see your name listed in the Fedora Account System, Karl. Did >>>> you follow the instructions at the page to which I sent you a link >>>> earlier?: >>>> http://fedoraproject.org/DocsProject/Join >>>> If so, did you register under some other name? >>>> >>>> >>> First, When I try to get to the web page you show I get a "Page >>> does not exist" error and a lot of other choices. >>> >> >> I'm sorry, that link should have been: >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join >> >> Please try again. >> >> > Well in another way I got to a page that seems to be a sign-up page > and it does not like the things I put in for my GPG numbers. This is > because I know shit-nothing about them except that if you just put $ > gpg in a window it calculates a lot of things. I put my "finger" on my > messages but that may be wrong too. > > Karl > > Here is what I did. I removed the old gpg things and did a new one. Here is what it printed when it was done: gpg: checking the trustdb gpg: 3 marginal(s) needed, 1 complete(s) needed, PGP trust model gpg: depth: 0 valid: 1 signed: 0 trust: 0-, 0q, 0n, 0m, 0f, 1u pub 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 Key fingerprint = 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) sub 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 Which number do I need to put in the two spaces on the sign-up page? It is not at all clear to me. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From vnk at mkc.co.nz Mon Dec 17 22:11:56 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:11:56 +1300 Subject: wiki problems In-Reply-To: <4766F2AF.1030908@zianet.com> References: <4766D84A.1080902@zianet.com> <1197924411.2955.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766E2F9.80701@zianet.com> <1197925351.2955.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766E9E7.6070009@zianet.com> <4766F2AF.1030908@zianet.com> Message-ID: <4766F42C.1070801@mkc.co.nz> Karl Larsen wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: >> Paul W. Frields wrote: >>> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:58 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >>> >>>> Paul W. Frields wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:12 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Here is my latest wiki problem. I can get up to what appears to be >>>>>> my page because it has my wiki name in upper left which is >>>>>> KarlLarsen. Just below that is the words Create New Page. >>>>>> >>>>>> I click on that and get this error message: >>>>>> >>>>>> You are not allowed to edit this page. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm at a stop now because I can't start. >>>>>> >>>>> I don't see your name listed in the Fedora Account System, Karl. Did >>>>> you follow the instructions at the page to which I sent you a link >>>>> earlier?: >>>>> http://fedoraproject.org/DocsProject/Join >>>>> If so, did you register under some other name? >>>>> >>>>> >>>> First, When I try to get to the web page you show I get a "Page >>>> does not exist" error and a lot of other choices. >>>> >>> >>> I'm sorry, that link should have been: >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join >>> >>> Please try again. >>> >>> >> Well in another way I got to a page that seems to be a sign-up page >> and it does not like the things I put in for my GPG numbers. This is >> because I know shit-nothing about them except that if you just put $ >> gpg in a window it calculates a lot of things. I put my "finger" on my >> messages but that may be wrong too. >> >> Karl >> >> > Here is what I did. I removed the old gpg things and did a new one. Here > is what it printed when it was done: > > gpg: checking the trustdb > gpg: 3 marginal(s) needed, 1 complete(s) needed, PGP trust model > gpg: depth: 0 valid: 1 signed: 0 trust: 0-, 0q, 0n, 0m, 0f, 1u > pub 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 > Key fingerprint = 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 > uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) > sub 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 > > Which number do I need to put in the two spaces on the sign-up page? It > is not at all clear to me. Karl, it's your public key ID: FA8EC752 Vladimir > > Karl > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 17 22:43:15 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 15:43:15 -0700 Subject: wiki problems In-Reply-To: <4766F42C.1070801@mkc.co.nz> References: <4766D84A.1080902@zianet.com> <1197924411.2955.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766E2F9.80701@zianet.com> <1197925351.2955.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766E9E7.6070009@zianet.com> <4766F2AF.1030908@zianet.com> <4766F42C.1070801@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <4766FB83.6080304@zianet.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> Paul W. Frields wrote: >>> >>>> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:58 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Paul W. Frields wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:12 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Here is my latest wiki problem. I can get up to what appears to be >>>>>>> my page because it has my wiki name in upper left which is >>>>>>> KarlLarsen. Just below that is the words Create New Page. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I click on that and get this error message: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You are not allowed to edit this page. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm at a stop now because I can't start. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> I don't see your name listed in the Fedora Account System, Karl. Did >>>>>> you follow the instructions at the page to which I sent you a link >>>>>> earlier?: >>>>>> http://fedoraproject.org/DocsProject/Join >>>>>> If so, did you register under some other name? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> First, When I try to get to the web page you show I get a "Page >>>>> does not exist" error and a lot of other choices. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I'm sorry, that link should have been: >>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join >>>> >>>> Please try again. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Well in another way I got to a page that seems to be a sign-up page >>> and it does not like the things I put in for my GPG numbers. This is >>> because I know shit-nothing about them except that if you just put $ >>> gpg in a window it calculates a lot of things. I put my "finger" on my >>> messages but that may be wrong too. >>> >>> Karl >>> >>> >>> >> Here is what I did. I removed the old gpg things and did a new one. Here >> is what it printed when it was done: >> >> gpg: checking the trustdb >> gpg: 3 marginal(s) needed, 1 complete(s) needed, PGP trust model >> gpg: depth: 0 valid: 1 signed: 0 trust: 0-, 0q, 0n, 0m, 0f, 1u >> pub 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 >> Key fingerprint = 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 >> uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) >> sub 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 >> >> Which number do I need to put in the two spaces on the sign-up page? It >> is not at all clear to me. >> > > Karl, it's your public key ID: > > FA8EC752 > > Vladimir > >> Karl >> >> >> > > I think another problem is the MIT keyserver. When I try to send my key to them Iget: [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys FA8EC752 gpg: sending key FA8EC752 to hkp server pgp.mit.edu gpg: keyserver timed out gpg: keyserver send failed: keyserver error [karl at k5di ~]$ It appears to be a MIT problem. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 17 23:01:47 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:01:47 -0700 Subject: wiki problems In-Reply-To: <4766FB83.6080304@zianet.com> References: <4766D84A.1080902@zianet.com> <1197924411.2955.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766E2F9.80701@zianet.com> <1197925351.2955.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4766E9E7.6070009@zianet.com> <4766F2AF.1030908@zianet.com> <4766F42C.1070801@mkc.co.nz> <4766FB83.6080304@zianet.com> Message-ID: <4766FFDB.5050103@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> Karl Larsen wrote: >>> >>>> Paul W. Frields wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:58 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Paul W. Frields wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, 2007-12-17 at 13:12 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Here is my latest wiki problem. I can get up to what appears to be >>>>>>>> my page because it has my wiki name in upper left which is >>>>>>>> KarlLarsen. Just below that is the words Create New Page. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I click on that and get this error message: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You are not allowed to edit this page. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm at a stop now because I can't start. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> I don't see your name listed in the Fedora Account System, >>>>>>> Karl. Did >>>>>>> you follow the instructions at the page to which I sent you a link >>>>>>> earlier?: >>>>>>> http://fedoraproject.org/DocsProject/Join >>>>>>> If so, did you register under some other name? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> First, When I try to get to the web page you show I get a "Page >>>>>> does not exist" error and a lot of other choices. >>>>>> >>>>> I'm sorry, that link should have been: >>>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join >>>>> >>>>> Please try again. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Well in another way I got to a page that seems to be a sign-up page >>>> and it does not like the things I put in for my GPG numbers. This is >>>> because I know shit-nothing about them except that if you just put $ >>>> gpg in a window it calculates a lot of things. I put my "finger" on my >>>> messages but that may be wrong too. >>>> >>>> Karl >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Here is what I did. I removed the old gpg things and did a new one. >>> Here >>> is what it printed when it was done: >>> >>> gpg: checking the trustdb >>> gpg: 3 marginal(s) needed, 1 complete(s) needed, PGP trust model >>> gpg: depth: 0 valid: 1 signed: 0 trust: 0-, 0q, 0n, 0m, 0f, 1u >>> pub 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 >>> Key fingerprint = 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E >>> C752 >>> uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) >>> >>> sub 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 >>> >>> Which number do I need to put in the two spaces on the sign-up page? It >>> is not at all clear to me. >>> >> >> Karl, it's your public key ID: >> >> FA8EC752 >> >> Vladimir >> >>> Karl >>> >>> >>> >> >> > I think another problem is the MIT keyserver. When I try to send my > key to them Iget: > > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys FA8EC752 > gpg: sending key FA8EC752 to hkp server pgp.mit.edu > gpg: keyserver timed out > gpg: keyserver send failed: keyserver error > [karl at k5di ~]$ > > It appears to be a MIT problem. > > Karl > > This is what worked after reading man gpg: [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --keyserver-options honor-keyserver-pgp.mit.edu --send-keys FA8EC752 gpg: sending key FA8EC752 to hkp server subkeys.pgp.net [karl at k5di ~]$ Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 17 23:22:06 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2007 16:22:06 -0700 Subject: I quit Message-ID: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> The instructions to join this group are old and out of date. I have spent enough time trying to get the gpg and ssh things right but your web page says it is all wrong! I have spent 4 days on this and that is too much. I quit. -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. GPG DF28 8F18 94F8 D5C6 9E44 163F 7FD1 3D06 C325 DA40 From ccurran at redhat.com Tue Dec 18 01:42:08 2007 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:42:08 +1000 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> Message-ID: <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > The instructions to join this group are old and out of date. I have > spent enough time trying to get the gpg and ssh things right but your > web page says it is all wrong! > > I have spent 4 days on this and that is too much. I quit. > > Sorry to hear that :( I'll do some QE on it and see if it can be fixed. This is the sort of feedback we need though, we need to know when things don't work. Documentation is an endless hurdle with testing and assurance. This sort of feedback is helpful and much appreciated. Chris Curran From ccurran at redhat.com Tue Dec 18 06:58:28 2007 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:58:28 +1000 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> Christopher Curran wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: >> The instructions to join this group are old and out of date. I >> have spent enough time trying to get the gpg and ssh things right but >> your web page says it is all wrong! >> >> I have spent 4 days on this and that is too much. I quit. >> >> > Sorry to hear that :( > > I'll do some QE on it and see if it can be fixed. This is the sort of > feedback we need though, we need to know when things don't work. > Documentation is an endless hurdle with testing and assurance. This > sort of feedback is helpful and much appreciated. > > Chris Curran > I hope I assisted with this issue. I hit many of the same problems (and a few others myself). There are certainly problems with the guide. The main issues are: * gpg isn't straight forward nor presented in a step by step manor, some steps are missing. * some people (including myself) did not have ssh access configured before starting. * The wiki editing process is not documented. Tooltips from within the wiki itself are nether helpful nor practical. We need a separate section within the original Join information describing the steps to get connected and editing on the wiki. In all honesty the process is too long. I've been a community contributer to a number of projects before fedora and none of them too this long or involved so many loops. It probably means we are losing the few how do not have the patience nor the troubleshooting skills to persevere through such a process. Can we automate it :D Chris -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ccurran.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 101 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in Tue Dec 18 07:18:17 2007 From: sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in (Sudheer Satyanarayana) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:48:17 +0530 Subject: Ready to spend few hours in a week Message-ID: <47677439.70800@binaryvibes.co.in> Hello, I had introduced myself to this list couple of months back. I do have a Fedora Account and a Wiki Name. Initially I was very interested to work on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CommandLineSurvivalGuide. Unfortunately people who were already working on it did not respond. I am willing to contribute to any docs project I can. I read that DUG needs some love. Can I have the pleasure of someone assigning specific tasks to me? -- Thanks and regards, Sudheer Satyanarayana http://binaryvibes.co.in From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 08:06:48 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:06:48 +1000 Subject: Ready to spend few hours in a week In-Reply-To: <47677439.70800@binaryvibes.co.in> References: <47677439.70800@binaryvibes.co.in> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712180006w3b99bcc2g8ff4140777ef34b8@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 18, 2007 5:18 PM, Sudheer Satyanarayana wrote: > Hello, > > I had introduced myself to this list couple of months back. I do have a > Fedora Account and a Wiki Name. Initially I was very interested to work > on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CommandLineSurvivalGuide. > Unfortunately people who were already working on it did not respond. > > I am willing to contribute to any docs project I can. I read that DUG > needs some love. Can I have the pleasure of someone assigning specific > tasks to me? > > -- > Thanks and regards, > > Sudheer Satyanarayana > http://binaryvibes.co.in > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Hi Sudheer, If you wanted to work on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CommandLineSurvivalGuide you should just go for it. If people are so upset they you changed something, it can easily be reverted - so don't worry and just go for it :-) Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 08:19:13 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:19:13 +1000 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712180019q778e4789lb9649b61c90ef80f@mail.gmail.com> > * gpg isn't straight forward nor presented in a step by step manor, some > steps are missing. What steps are missing? I copied+pasted the steps and they seemed to work fine :( > * some people (including myself) did not have ssh access configured > before starting. > * The wiki editing process is not documented. Tooltips from within the > wiki itself are nether helpful nor practical. We need a separate section > within the original Join information describing the steps to get > connected and editing on the wiki. Instructions for using a wiki: * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpForBeginners * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpOnNavigation * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpOnPageCreation * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpOnEditing For a compelte list please visit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/HelpContents Please ask if you have trouble with a specific step and someone will be able to get you started. Hope that helps. Cheers, Murray. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 18 12:55:36 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 05:55:36 -0700 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4767C348.2030301@zianet.com> Christopher Curran wrote: > Christopher Curran wrote: >> Karl Larsen wrote: >>> The instructions to join this group are old and out of date. I >>> have spent enough time trying to get the gpg and ssh things right >>> but your web page says it is all wrong! >>> >>> I have spent 4 days on this and that is too much. I quit. >>> >>> >> Sorry to hear that :( >> >> I'll do some QE on it and see if it can be fixed. This is the sort of >> feedback we need though, we need to know when things don't work. >> Documentation is an endless hurdle with testing and assurance. This >> sort of feedback is helpful and much appreciated. >> >> Chris Curran >> > I hope I assisted with this issue. I hit many of the same problems > (and a few others myself). There are certainly problems with the > guide. The main issues are: > > * gpg isn't straight forward nor presented in a step by step manor, > some steps are missing. > * some people (including myself) did not have ssh access configured > before starting. > * The wiki editing process is not documented. Tooltips from within the > wiki itself are nether helpful nor practical. We need a separate > section within the original Join information describing the steps to > get connected and editing on the wiki. > > In all honesty the process is too long. I've been a community > contributer to a number of projects before fedora and none of them too > this long or involved so many loops. It probably means we are losing > the few how do not have the patience nor the troubleshooting skills to > persevere through such a process. Can we automate it :D > > Chris Probably not. The problem is, there is not a place where it says this is how you fill out registration form. And it IS complex. As I keep saying I do not understand the pgp system even with it's good man page. The step of sending the pgp you made to MIT is not working as shown. It just errors out and you cannot register if that is not working. This is a MAJOR problem. I will send my pgp information and ssh information for you to see. -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 18 13:09:32 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:09:32 -0700 Subject: settings Message-ID: <4767C68C.10509@zianet.com> Here is what I have at the time. It doesn't work :-) [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -K /home/karl/.gnupg/secring.gpg ----------------------------- sec 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) ssb 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 [karl at k5di ~]$ [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --fingerprint /home/karl/.gnupg/pubring.gpg ----------------------------- pub 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 Key fingerprint = 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) sub 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 I do have a /home/karl/.ssh/ directory and it has: [karl at k5di .ssh]$ ls id_dsa id_dsa.pub known_hosts I think when I put the full address of id_dsa it works on the register page. But FA8EC752 has never worked in the pgpID entry on the register form. This may be because I'm not on the MIT list? Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 18 13:18:13 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:18:13 -0700 Subject: settings In-Reply-To: <4767C68C.10509@zianet.com> References: <4767C68C.10509@zianet.com> Message-ID: <4767C895.1010102@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Here is what I have at the time. It doesn't work :-) > > > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -K > /home/karl/.gnupg/secring.gpg > ----------------------------- > sec 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 > uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) > ssb 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 > > [karl at k5di ~]$ > > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --fingerprint > /home/karl/.gnupg/pubring.gpg > ----------------------------- > pub 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 > Key fingerprint = 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 > uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) > sub 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 > > I do have a /home/karl/.ssh/ directory and it has: > > [karl at k5di .ssh]$ ls > id_dsa id_dsa.pub known_hosts > > > I think when I put the full address of id_dsa it works on the > register page. But FA8EC752 has never worked in the pgpID entry on the > register form. This may be because I'm not on the MIT list? > > Karl > I just tried to send my pgp to MIT and it worked fine! So now to try and register :-) -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From davidsonpaulo at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 13:21:18 2007 From: davidsonpaulo at gmail.com (Davidson Rodrigues Paulo) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 11:21:18 -0200 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <4767C348.2030301@zianet.com> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> <4767C348.2030301@zianet.com> Message-ID: 2007/12/18, Karl Larsen : > The step of sending the pgp you made to MIT is not working as shown. > It just errors out and you cannot register if that is not working. This > is a MAJOR problem. Have you tried using Seahorse (graphical interface to manage PGP and SSH keys)? The documentation covers this method since I updated it, some weeks ago: * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo Regards, -- Davidson Paulo Administrador de Sistemas Linux Certificado LPI N?vel 1: LPI000132770 L?der Nacional dos Grupos de Usu?rios BrOffice.org http://davidsonenatalia.blogspot.com/ From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 18 13:31:16 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:31:16 -0700 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> <4767C348.2030301@zianet.com> Message-ID: <4767CBA4.4080201@zianet.com> Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: > 2007/12/18, Karl Larsen : > >> The step of sending the pgp you made to MIT is not working as shown. >> It just errors out and you cannot register if that is not working. This >> is a MAJOR problem. >> > > Have you tried using Seahorse (graphical interface to manage PGP and > SSH keys)? The documentation covers this method since I updated it, > some weeks ago: > > * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys > * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo > > Regards, > > For some reason it worked this morning and it was the problem! I am now registered in the Doc Group. I think the rest will go faster. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 18 13:53:31 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 06:53:31 -0700 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <4767CBA4.4080201@zianet.com> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> <4767C348.2030301@zianet.com> <4767CBA4.4080201@zianet.com> Message-ID: <4767D0DB.5080300@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: >> 2007/12/18, Karl Larsen : >> >>> The step of sending the pgp you made to MIT is not working as >>> shown. >>> It just errors out and you cannot register if that is not working. This >>> is a MAJOR problem. >>> >> >> Have you tried using Seahorse (graphical interface to manage PGP and >> SSH keys)? The documentation covers this method since I updated it, >> some weeks ago: >> >> * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys >> * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo >> >> Regards, >> >> > For some reason it worked this morning and it was the problem! I am > now registered in the Doc Group. I think the rest will go faster. > > Karl > > But then this problem showed up trying to sign my CLA: [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available gpg: signing failed: secret key not available [karl at k5di ~]$ I have no idea how to fix this. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 18 20:21:50 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:21:50 -0700 Subject: Status of effort Message-ID: <47682BDE.2070502@zianet.com> Here is what worked and did not today: [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -K /home/karl/.gnupg/secring.gpg ----------------------------- sec 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) ssb 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 [karl at k5di ~]$ [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --fingerprint /home/karl/.gnupg/pubring.gpg ----------------------------- pub 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 Key fingerprint = 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) sub 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 I do have a /home/karl/.ssh/ directory and it has: [karl at k5di .ssh]$ ls id_dsa id_dsa.pub known_hosts I think when I put the full address of id_dsa it works on the register page. But FA8EC752 has never worked in the pgpID entry on the register form. This may be because I'm not on the MIT list? Here after I got the dam thing to work it sent FA8EC752 to MIT in nothing flat! Yesterday it thought and thought and then provided an error message. Of course I used the instructions exactly as written on the web page. The point I want to make is that sometimes you can't reach MIT and that MUST be explained in the Instructions. Registration: Went to the web page to register and after correcting some problems it went through. So I am a registered member of the Doc Group, whatever that might mean, but for certain my gpg and ssh numbers were good enough to register. For certain the registration job includes going to gpg.mit and finding my stuff. Contributor License Agreement: I learned that I must fill out and send back a Contributor License Agreement but when I tried to it I got an error. This is what happened: [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available gpg: signing failed: secret key not available [karl at k5di ~]$ I have no idea what a "default secret key" is and I guess I need one but no-where in the Instructions does it say do this to make a default secret key. Summary: There are serious errors in the Instructions. I have no way to send the CLA to Fedora except by printing the thing and signing it in ink and mail it to the address given. I have no way to join this Doc and I have D/L "seahorse" and it seems to work. It found both of my GPG and SSH passwords. I will tear up my registration and delete both my keys and re-do it with "seahorse" ONLY if you agree to remove all the manual Terminal Instructions. I ask this because what I did does not work. The new GUI software uses gnupg2 which must be required now. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 20:31:40 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 07:31:40 +1100 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <4767D0DB.5080300@zianet.com> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> <4767C348.2030301@zianet.com> <4767CBA4.4080201@zianet.com> <4767D0DB.5080300@zianet.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712181231l67bcc4ebx7b69caac1b667223@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 19, 2007 12:53 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: > > Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: > >> 2007/12/18, Karl Larsen : > >> > >>> The step of sending the pgp you made to MIT is not working as > >>> shown. > >>> It just errors out and you cannot register if that is not working. This > >>> is a MAJOR problem. > >>> > >> > >> Have you tried using Seahorse (graphical interface to manage PGP and > >> SSH keys)? The documentation covers this method since I updated it, > >> some weeks ago: > >> > >> * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys > >> * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo > >> > >> Regards, > >> > >> > > For some reason it worked this morning and it was the problem! I am > > now registered in the Doc Group. I think the rest will go faster. > > > > Karl > > > > > But then this problem showed up trying to sign my CLA: > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt > gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available > gpg: signing failed: secret key not available > [karl at k5di ~]$ > > I have no idea how to fix this. > > > Karl > > > > -- > > Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI > Linux User > #450462 http://counter.li.org. > PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Karl, thanks for your persistence and not leaving :) No idea about the MIT problem you had, I was lucky and could just copy+paste the examples and it worked first time. If gpg -K lists your keys, try running: gpg --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt What is the "-a" for? I tried before and it also works on mine, and asks for a passphrase... Cheers, Murray. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 21:39:34 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 07:39:34 +1000 Subject: Status of effort In-Reply-To: <47682BDE.2070502@zianet.com> References: <47682BDE.2070502@zianet.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712181339h7a3910c1tcf7f97bc34b0dedf@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 19, 2007 6:21 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > > Here is what worked and did not today: > > > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -K > /home/karl/.gnupg/secring.gpg > ----------------------------- > sec 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 > uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) > ssb 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 > > [karl at k5di ~]$ > > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --fingerprint > /home/karl/.gnupg/pubring.gpg > ----------------------------- > pub 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 > Key fingerprint = 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 > uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) > sub 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 > > I do have a /home/karl/.ssh/ directory and it has: > > [karl at k5di .ssh]$ ls > id_dsa id_dsa.pub known_hosts > > > I think when I put the full address of id_dsa it works on the > register page. But FA8EC752 has never worked in the pgpID entry on the > register form. This may be because I'm not on the MIT list? > > Here after I got the dam thing to work it sent FA8EC752 to MIT in > nothing flat! Yesterday it thought and thought and then provided an > error message. Of course I used the instructions exactly as written on > the web page. You mentioned this worked the other day. Once you have uploaded your keys to MIT you don't have to do it again. Do you remember what the error was? Perhaps it was because you already have your keys there... > > The point I want to make is that sometimes you can't reach MIT and > that MUST be explained in the Instructions. This may have been a home internet/router problem. Most home routers sometimes/eventually allow connections on ports, even if you specifically block said port :( > > Registration: > > Went to the web page to register and after correcting some problems > it went through. So I am a registered member of the Doc Group, whatever > that might mean, but for certain my gpg and ssh numbers were good enough > to register. For certain the registration job includes going to gpg.mit > and finding my stuff. > > Contributor License Agreement: > > I learned that I must fill out and send back a Contributor License > Agreement but when I tried to it I got an error. This is what happened: > > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt > gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available > gpg: signing failed: secret key not available > [karl at k5di ~]$ > > I have no idea what a "default secret key" is and I guess I need one but > no-where in the Instructions does it say do this to make a default > secret key. > > Summary: > > There are serious errors in the Instructions. I have no way to send > the CLA to Fedora except by printing the thing and signing it in ink and > mail it to the address given. > > I have no way to join this Doc and I have D/L "seahorse" and it > seems to work. It found both of my GPG and SSH passwords. > > I will tear up my registration and delete both my keys and re-do it > with "seahorse" ONLY if you agree to remove all the manual Terminal > Instructions. I ask this because what I did does not work. The new GUI > software uses gnupg2 which must be required now. I'm sorry to hear you had trouble with the terminal instructions. They have worked fine for thousands before you. What specifically was wrong with them, and where were your problems (I have already noted signing and sending to mit - but that should work, and if it doesn't, then it is most likely a problem with your machine.). Hope that helps, probably doesn't :P Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 21:41:14 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 07:41:14 +1000 Subject: Status of effort In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712181339h7a3910c1tcf7f97bc34b0dedf@mail.gmail.com> References: <47682BDE.2070502@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181339h7a3910c1tcf7f97bc34b0dedf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712181341j52f20202t500419a97eaec313@mail.gmail.com> > > > > Here is what worked and did not today: > > > > > > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -K > > /home/karl/.gnupg/secring.gpg > > ----------------------------- > > sec 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 > > uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) > > ssb 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 > > > > [karl at k5di ~]$ > > > > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --fingerprint > > /home/karl/.gnupg/pubring.gpg > > ----------------------------- > > pub 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 > > Key fingerprint = 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 > > uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) > > sub 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 > > > > I do have a /home/karl/.ssh/ directory and it has: > > > > [karl at k5di .ssh]$ ls > > id_dsa id_dsa.pub known_hosts > > > > > > I think when I put the full address of id_dsa it works on the > > register page. But FA8EC752 has never worked in the pgpID entry on the > > register form. This may be because I'm not on the MIT list? I vaguelly recall exporting my public key using something like: gpg --export keyname or something like that. I do know that the instructions provided for this work. And then adding that key file to my account... Cheers, Murray. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 18 21:46:51 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:46:51 -0700 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712181231l67bcc4ebx7b69caac1b667223@mail.gmail.com> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> <4767C348.2030301@zianet.com> <4767CBA4.4080201@zianet.com> <4767D0DB.5080300@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181231l67bcc4ebx7b69caac1b667223@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47683FCB.4010701@zianet.com> Murray McAllister wrote: > On Dec 19, 2007 12:53 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: >>> >>>> 2007/12/18, Karl Larsen : >>>> >>>> >>>>> The step of sending the pgp you made to MIT is not working as >>>>> shown. >>>>> It just errors out and you cannot register if that is not working. This >>>>> is a MAJOR problem. >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Have you tried using Seahorse (graphical interface to manage PGP and >>>> SSH keys)? The documentation covers this method since I updated it, >>>> some weeks ago: >>>> >>>> * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys >>>> * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> For some reason it worked this morning and it was the problem! I am >>> now registered in the Doc Group. I think the rest will go faster. >>> >>> Karl >>> >>> >>> >> But then this problem showed up trying to sign my CLA: >> [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt >> gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available >> gpg: signing failed: secret key not available >> [karl at k5di ~]$ >> >> I have no idea how to fix this. >> >> >> Karl >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI >> Linux User >> #450462 http://counter.li.org. >> PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> >> > > > Karl, thanks for your persistence and not leaving :) > > No idea about the MIT problem you had, I was lucky and could just > copy+paste the examples and it worked first time. > > If gpg -K lists your keys, try running: > > gpg --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt > > What is the "-a" for? I tried before and it also works on mine, and > asks for a passphrase... > > Cheers, > > Murray. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > > Hi Murray it still makes the same error message. I'm using F8 and wonder if that is the key? [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available gpg: signing failed: secret key not available [karl at k5di ~]$ [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -K /home/karl/.gnupg/secring.gpg ----------------------------- sec 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) ssb 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 [karl at k5di ~]$ Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 18 21:57:53 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:57:53 -0700 Subject: Status of effort In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712181339h7a3910c1tcf7f97bc34b0dedf@mail.gmail.com> References: <47682BDE.2070502@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181339h7a3910c1tcf7f97bc34b0dedf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47684261.8000801@zianet.com> Murray McAllister wrote: > On Dec 19, 2007 6:21 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Here is what worked and did not today: >> >> >> [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -K >> /home/karl/.gnupg/secring.gpg >> ----------------------------- >> sec 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 >> uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) >> ssb 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 >> >> [karl at k5di ~]$ >> >> [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --fingerprint >> /home/karl/.gnupg/pubring.gpg >> ----------------------------- >> pub 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 >> Key fingerprint = 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 >> uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) >> sub 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 >> >> I do have a /home/karl/.ssh/ directory and it has: >> >> [karl at k5di .ssh]$ ls >> id_dsa id_dsa.pub known_hosts >> >> >> I think when I put the full address of id_dsa it works on the >> register page. But FA8EC752 has never worked in the pgpID entry on the >> register form. This may be because I'm not on the MIT list? >> >> Here after I got the dam thing to work it sent FA8EC752 to MIT in >> nothing flat! Yesterday it thought and thought and then provided an >> error message. Of course I used the instructions exactly as written on >> the web page. >> > > You mentioned this worked the other day. Once you have uploaded your > keys to MIT you don't have to do it again. Do you remember what the > error was? Perhaps it was because you already have your keys there... > > No! Yesterday I could not get MIT to accept my offer of a public key. > >> The point I want to make is that sometimes you can't reach MIT and >> that MUST be explained in the Instructions. >> > > This may have been a home internet/router problem. Most home routers > sometimes/eventually allow connections on ports, even if you > specifically block said port :( > It was not a problem like that. >> Registration: >> >> Went to the web page to register and after correcting some problems >> it went through. So I am a registered member of the Doc Group, whatever >> that might mean, but for certain my gpg and ssh numbers were good enough >> to register. For certain the registration job includes going to gpg.mit >> and finding my stuff. >> >> Contributor License Agreement: >> >> I learned that I must fill out and send back a Contributor License >> Agreement but when I tried to it I got an error. This is what happened: >> >> [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt >> gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available >> gpg: signing failed: secret key not available >> [karl at k5di ~]$ >> >> I have no idea what a "default secret key" is and I guess I need one but >> no-where in the Instructions does it say do this to make a default >> secret key. >> >> Summary: >> >> There are serious errors in the Instructions. I have no way to send >> the CLA to Fedora except by printing the thing and signing it in ink and >> mail it to the address given. >> >> I have no way to join this Doc and I have D/L "seahorse" and it >> seems to work. It found both of my GPG and SSH passwords. >> >> I will tear up my registration and delete both my keys and re-do it >> with "seahorse" ONLY if you agree to remove all the manual Terminal >> Instructions. I ask this because what I did does not work. The new GUI >> software uses gnupg2 which must be required now. >> > > I'm sorry to hear you had trouble with the terminal instructions. They > have worked fine for thousands before you. What specifically was wrong > with them, and where were your problems (I have already noted signing > and sending to mit - but that should work, and if it doesn't, then it > is most likely a problem with your machine.). > > I do not think it was my machine. Could be but it was working for everything else. > Hope that helps, probably doesn't :P > Nope. It is still a problem. Also in one place in the instructions it says to give the registration form the finger, not the ID. That slowed me down too. > Karl > Cheers, > > Murray. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > > -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 18 22:16:39 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:16:39 -0700 Subject: Status of effort In-Reply-To: <47684261.8000801@zianet.com> References: <47682BDE.2070502@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181339h7a3910c1tcf7f97bc34b0dedf@mail.gmail.com> <47684261.8000801@zianet.com> Message-ID: <476846C7.8060608@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Murray McAllister wrote: >> On Dec 19, 2007 6:21 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> Here is what worked and did not today: >>> I have reached the point where I think I must do the whole darn thing over after making sure there are no old keys on my computer. Seahorse showed me I have 2 "sub keys". I was able to delete one but the other could not be deleted. So I will start over after I kill ALL KEYS on my computer. Karl >> > > -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Tue Dec 18 23:17:45 2007 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:17:45 -0500 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <47683FCB.4010701@zianet.com> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> <4767C348.2030301@zianet.com> <4767CBA4.4080201@zianet.com> <4767D0DB.5080300@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181231l67bcc4ebx7b69caac1b667223@mail.gmail.com> <47683FCB.4010701@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1198019865.13385.3.camel@ignacio.lan> On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 14:46 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt > gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available > gpg: signing failed: secret key not available > [karl at k5di ~]$ > > [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -K > /home/karl/.gnupg/secring.gpg > ----------------------------- > sec 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 > uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) > ssb 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 > > [karl at k5di ~]$ Edit ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf and set the default-key directive to the key you want to sign with. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 18 23:30:47 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:30:47 -0700 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <1198019865.13385.3.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47672570.4000707@redhat.com> <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> <4767C348.2030301@zianet.com> <4767CBA4.4080201@zianet.com> <4767D0DB.5080300@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181231l67bcc4ebx7b69caac1b667223@mail.gmail.com> <47683FCB.4010701@zianet.com> <1198019865.13385.3.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <47685827.7070101@zianet.com> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 14:46 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt >> gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available >> gpg: signing failed: secret key not available >> [karl at k5di ~]$ >> >> [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -K >> /home/karl/.gnupg/secring.gpg >> ----------------------------- >> sec 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 >> uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) >> ssb 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 >> >> [karl at k5di ~]$ >> > > Edit ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf and set the default-key directive to the key you > want to sign with. > > I will try that. Right now I'm trying to understand Seahorse :-) Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From k5di at zianet.com Wed Dec 19 00:40:18 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:40:18 -0700 Subject: Enough Message-ID: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> The key things are just killing me. I have Seahorse running and it is no help at all. It is just too much for me. Since you will not not let me write for Fedora without all these things done, I will not write for Fedora. Karl Goodbye -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 01:20:48 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:20:48 +1000 Subject: I quit In-Reply-To: <47685827.7070101@zianet.com> References: <4767049E.1060402@zianet.com> <47676F94.5050204@redhat.com> <4767C348.2030301@zianet.com> <4767CBA4.4080201@zianet.com> <4767D0DB.5080300@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181231l67bcc4ebx7b69caac1b667223@mail.gmail.com> <47683FCB.4010701@zianet.com> <1198019865.13385.3.camel@ignacio.lan> <47685827.7070101@zianet.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712181720q48f9ea28w5485cd12161b6f2a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 19, 2007 9:30 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-12-18 at 14:46 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > > > >> [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt > >> gpg: no default secret key: secret key not available > >> gpg: signing failed: secret key not available > >> [karl at k5di ~]$ > >> > >> [karl at k5di ~]$ gpg -K > >> /home/karl/.gnupg/secring.gpg > >> ----------------------------- > >> sec 1024D/FA8EC752 2007-12-17 > >> uid Karl Larsen (For Fedora Doc work) > >> ssb 1024g/9A70DE59 2007-12-17 > >> > >> [karl at k5di ~]$ > >> > > > > Edit ~/.gnupg/gpg.conf and set the default-key directive to the key you > > want to sign with. > > > > > I will try that. Right now I'm trying to understand Seahorse :-) > > Karl No idea, but I'm pretty sure key signing would work the same in F8 as it did in F7. I don't understand why you need to set a default key, unless you had lots of private ones. Hope it works. Cheers, ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 01:26:36 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:26:36 +1000 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 19, 2007 10:40 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > The key things are just killing me. I have Seahorse running and it > is no help at all. It is just too much for me. Since you will not not > let me write for Fedora without all these things done, I will not write > for Fedora. > > Karl > > Goodbye Karl, what steps do you use to generate keys? I followed these steps verbatim: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys 1. gpg --gen-key (I used all the default values) 2. gpg --fingerprint your at email.address For me this prints something such as the following: pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Maybe the GPGKEYID is confusing? Using my example, first line (pub), it is the second hex value (81B3FDEB) 3. Upload to MIT: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys 81B3FDEB 4. To export them, and possibly upload them to make an account: gpg --export --armor murray.mcallister at gmail > murray_pub.asc will export my public key to murray_pub.asc If you are still around, could you please run through the steps I have here (even though they are a copy of the website), and let me know how you go. All the best. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From k5di at zianet.com Wed Dec 19 01:43:43 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 18:43:43 -0700 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> Murray McAllister wrote: > On Dec 19, 2007 10:40 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> The key things are just killing me. I have Seahorse running and it >> is no help at all. It is just too much for me. Since you will not not >> let me write for Fedora without all these things done, I will not write >> for Fedora. >> >> Karl >> >> Goodbye >> > > Karl, what steps do you use to generate keys? > > I followed these steps verbatim: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys > > 1. gpg --gen-key (I used all the default values) > 2. gpg --fingerprint your at email.address > > For me this prints something such as the following: > > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > > Maybe the GPGKEYID is confusing? Using my example, first line (pub), > it is the second hex value (81B3FDEB) > > 3. Upload to MIT: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys 81B3FDEB > > 4. To export them, and possibly upload them to make an account: gpg > --export --armor murray.mcallister at gmail > murray_pub.asc > will export my public key to murray_pub.asc > > If you are still around, could you please run through the steps I have > here (even though they are a copy of the website), and let me know how > you go. > > All the best. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > > Murray, The last straw is after I got the stupid thing to put my signature into the message back to fedora It didn't do that right. And I just get Sorry your file is currupt. So having made 3 key rings and numerous tries at getting the thing to work I am done. There is something odd about F8 or something I am not aware of is causing trouble. But I'm tired of chasing problems. Everything else seems to work fine. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From ccurran at redhat.com Wed Dec 19 03:18:30 2007 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:18:30 +1000 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> Message-ID: <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Murray McAllister wrote: >> On Dec 19, 2007 10:40 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> The key things are just killing me. I have Seahorse running and it >>> is no help at all. It is just too much for me. Since you will not not >>> let me write for Fedora without all these things done, I will not write >>> for Fedora. >>> >>> Karl >>> >>> Goodbye >>> >> >> Karl, what steps do you use to generate keys? >> >> I followed these steps verbatim: >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys >> >> 1. gpg --gen-key (I used all the default values) >> 2. gpg --fingerprint your at email.address >> >> For me this prints something such as the following: >> >> pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >> Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB >> Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) >> >> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >> >> Maybe the GPGKEYID is confusing? Using my example, first line (pub), >> it is the second hex value (81B3FDEB) >> >> 3. Upload to MIT: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys 81B3FDEB >> >> 4. To export them, and possibly upload them to make an account: gpg >> --export --armor murray.mcallister at gmail > murray_pub.asc >> will export my public key to murray_pub.asc >> >> If you are still around, could you please run through the steps I have >> here (even though they are a copy of the website), and let me know how >> you go. >> >> All the best. >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >> Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB >> Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) >> >> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >> >> > Murray, The last straw is after I got the stupid thing to put my > signature into the message back to fedora It didn't do that right. And > I just get Sorry your file is currupt. > > So having made 3 key rings and numerous tries at getting the thing to > work I am done. There is something odd about F8 or something I am not > aware of is causing trouble. But I'm tired of chasing problems. > > Everything else seems to work fine. > > Karl > > Did you edit the .txt file before applying the key? It didn't explicitly say that so that may be your issue. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ccurran.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 101 bytes Desc: not available URL: From k5di at zianet.com Wed Dec 19 03:38:08 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2007 20:38:08 -0700 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> Message-ID: <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> Christopher Curran wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: >> Murray McAllister wrote: >>> On Dec 19, 2007 10:40 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: >>> >>>> The key things are just killing me. I have Seahorse running and it >>>> is no help at all. It is just too much for me. Since you will not not >>>> let me write for Fedora without all these things done, I will not >>>> write >>>> for Fedora. >>>> >>>> Karl >>>> >>>> Goodbye >>>> >>> >>> Karl, what steps do you use to generate keys? >>> >>> I followed these steps verbatim: >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys >>> >>> 1. gpg --gen-key (I used all the default values) >>> 2. gpg --fingerprint your at email.address >>> >>> For me this prints something such as the following: >>> >>> pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>> Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB >>> Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) >>> >>> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>> >>> Maybe the GPGKEYID is confusing? Using my example, first line (pub), >>> it is the second hex value (81B3FDEB) >>> >>> 3. Upload to MIT: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys 81B3FDEB >>> >>> 4. To export them, and possibly upload them to make an account: gpg >>> --export --armor murray.mcallister at gmail > murray_pub.asc >>> will export my public key to murray_pub.asc >>> >>> If you are still around, could you please run through the steps I have >>> here (even though they are a copy of the website), and let me know how >>> you go. >>> >>> All the best. >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>> Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB >>> Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) >>> >>> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>> >>> >> Murray, The last straw is after I got the stupid thing to put my >> signature into the message back to fedora It didn't do that right. >> And I just get Sorry your file is currupt. >> >> So having made 3 key rings and numerous tries at getting the thing to >> work I am done. There is something odd about F8 or something I am not >> aware of is causing trouble. But I'm tired of chasing problems. >> >> Everything else seems to work fine. >> >> Karl >> >> > Did you edit the .txt file before applying the key? It didn't > explicitly say that so that may be your issue. Geeze you guys take for a stupid jerk? Of course I did! Your fucking instructions say nothing but the message said to do it so I did. But good by. I am not going to write for your group because it is way too hard. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Dec 19 04:30:07 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 17:30:07 +1300 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> Message-ID: <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> Karl Larsen wrote: > Christopher Curran wrote: >> Karl Larsen wrote: >>> Murray McAllister wrote: >>>> On Dec 19, 2007 10:40 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: >>>> >>>>> The key things are just killing me. I have Seahorse running and it >>>>> is no help at all. It is just too much for me. Since you will not not >>>>> let me write for Fedora without all these things done, I will not >>>>> write >>>>> for Fedora. >>>>> >>>>> Karl >>>>> >>>>> Goodbye >>>>> >>>> >>>> Karl, what steps do you use to generate keys? >>>> >>>> I followed these steps verbatim: >>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys >>>> >>>> 1. gpg --gen-key (I used all the default values) >>>> 2. gpg --fingerprint your at email.address >>>> >>>> For me this prints something such as the following: >>>> >>>> pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>>> Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB >>>> Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) >>>> >>>> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>>> >>>> Maybe the GPGKEYID is confusing? Using my example, first line (pub), >>>> it is the second hex value (81B3FDEB) >>>> >>>> 3. Upload to MIT: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys 81B3FDEB >>>> >>>> 4. To export them, and possibly upload them to make an account: gpg >>>> --export --armor murray.mcallister at gmail > murray_pub.asc >>>> will export my public key to murray_pub.asc >>>> >>>> If you are still around, could you please run through the steps I have >>>> here (even though they are a copy of the website), and let me know how >>>> you go. >>>> >>>> All the best. >>>> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>>> Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB >>>> Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) >>>> >>>> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>>> >>>> >>> Murray, The last straw is after I got the stupid thing to put my >>> signature into the message back to fedora It didn't do that right. >>> And I just get Sorry your file is currupt. >>> >>> So having made 3 key rings and numerous tries at getting the thing to >>> work I am done. There is something odd about F8 or something I am not >>> aware of is causing trouble. But I'm tired of chasing problems. >>> >>> Everything else seems to work fine. >>> >>> Karl >>> >>> >> Did you edit the .txt file before applying the key? It didn't >> explicitly say that so that may be your issue. > Geeze you guys take for a stupid jerk? Of course I did! Your fucking > instructions say nothing but the message said to do it so I did. > Way to respond to people who are trying pretty hard to help by providing instructions that worked for everybody else. Granted, this process ought to be simplified but the statements how it's so hard because there are no good instructions... come on. Vladimir > But good by. I am not going to write for your group because it is way > too hard. > > Karl > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ccurran at redhat.com Wed Dec 19 04:47:21 2007 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:47:21 +1000 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <4768A259.7020305@redhat.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Christopher Curran wrote: >> >>> Karl Larsen wrote: >>> >>>> Murray McAllister wrote: >>>> >>>>> On Dec 19, 2007 10:40 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> The key things are just killing me. I have Seahorse running and it >>>>>> is no help at all. It is just too much for me. Since you will not not >>>>>> let me write for Fedora without all these things done, I will not >>>>>> write >>>>>> for Fedora. >>>>>> >>>>>> Karl >>>>>> >>>>>> Goodbye >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> Karl, what steps do you use to generate keys? >>>>> >>>>> I followed these steps verbatim: >>>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys >>>>> >>>>> 1. gpg --gen-key (I used all the default values) >>>>> 2. gpg --fingerprint your at email.address >>>>> >>>>> For me this prints something such as the following: >>>>> >>>>> pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>>>> Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB >>>>> Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) >>>>> >>>>> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>>>> >>>>> Maybe the GPGKEYID is confusing? Using my example, first line (pub), >>>>> it is the second hex value (81B3FDEB) >>>>> >>>>> 3. Upload to MIT: gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys 81B3FDEB >>>>> >>>>> 4. To export them, and possibly upload them to make an account: gpg >>>>> --export --armor murray.mcallister at gmail > murray_pub.asc >>>>> will export my public key to murray_pub.asc >>>>> >>>>> If you are still around, could you please run through the steps I have >>>>> here (even though they are a copy of the website), and let me know how >>>>> you go. >>>>> >>>>> All the best. >>>>> >>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>> >>>>> pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>>>> Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB >>>>> Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) >>>>> >>>>> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> Murray, The last straw is after I got the stupid thing to put my >>>> signature into the message back to fedora It didn't do that right. >>>> And I just get Sorry your file is currupt. >>>> >>>> So having made 3 key rings and numerous tries at getting the thing to >>>> work I am done. There is something odd about F8 or something I am not >>>> aware of is causing trouble. But I'm tired of chasing problems. >>>> >>>> Everything else seems to work fine. >>>> >>>> Karl >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Did you edit the .txt file before applying the key? It didn't >>> explicitly say that so that may be your issue. >>> >> Geeze you guys take for a stupid jerk? Of course I did! Your fucking >> instructions say nothing but the message said to do it so I did. >> >> > Way to respond to people who are trying pretty hard to help by providing > instructions that worked for everybody else. > > Granted, this process ought to be simplified but the statements how it's > so hard because there are no good instructions... come on. > > Vladimir > > >> But good by. I am not going to write for your group because it is way >> too hard. >> >> Karl >> >> >> > > I have to agree, fedora docs project is by far the hardest project I've ever tried to join. Previous development projects all I had to do is send an email and hey presto SVN write access. This whole process is so long and drawn out it is probably marginalising a whole swathe of potential contributers. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ccurran.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 101 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Dec 19 09:16:46 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:16:46 +0200 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <4768A259.7020305@redhat.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> <4768A259.7020305@redhat.com> Message-ID: <6d4237680712190116h412434fi4c22a1ec8c2030af@mail.gmail.com> On 12/19/07, Christopher Curran wrote: > I have to agree, fedora docs project is by far the hardest project I've > ever tried to join. Previous development projects all I had to do is > send an email and hey presto SVN write access. This whole process is so > long and drawn out it is probably marginalising a whole swathe of > potential contributers. Sounds like a good discussion for the upcoming FUDCon. People from RH Legal will be there, so we can think of how to overcome some of the challenges and re-evaluate our processes. I think we all agree we should lower the barrier to entry -- we just want to do it "the right way". I'm frustrated as well with all the discussions around licenses and I hope we can stop worrying too much about all these things soon. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 10:22:56 2007 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:52:56 +0530 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <6d4237680712190116h412434fi4c22a1ec8c2030af@mail.gmail.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> <4768A259.7020305@redhat.com> <6d4237680712190116h412434fi4c22a1ec8c2030af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4768F100.20307@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dimitris Glezos wrote: > I'm frustrated as well with all the discussions around licenses and I > hope we can stop worrying too much about all these things soon. In a world where content usage is directly related to the rights of usage the content allows, discussions around licenses would continue to come up. I do not see how worrying less is going to resolve the issue - -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHaPEAXQZpNTcrCzMRAqUNAJ4wzuhGpZnSqeaDTdtuCD4D8kkTIACgvzXd d8XOZHa6A6U1SrJnMz7f3aQ= =b12A -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 11:07:39 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:07:39 +0300 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <6d4237680712190116h412434fi4c22a1ec8c2030af@mail.gmail.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> <4768A259.7020305@redhat.com> <6d4237680712190116h412434fi4c22a1ec8c2030af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712190307g3fa03039gde3f08ab8a6f25ea@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 19, 2007 12:16 PM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > On 12/19/07, Christopher Curran wrote: > Sounds like a good discussion for the upcoming FUDCon. People from RH > Legal will be there, so we can think of how to overcome some of the > challenges and re-evaluate our processes. I think we all agree we > should lower the barrier to entry -- we just want to do it "the right > way". > > I'm frustrated as well with all the discussions around licenses and I > hope we can stop worrying too much about all these things soon. > +1 For what it's worth, I know that there has been an ongoing effort to simplify the process of contributing docs to the Fedora Project. I remember all too well my initial difficulties in getting on board. I appreciate the need to exercise some discipline in who can edit the wiki - otherwise the overall quality would suffer from random edits and spam postings. At the same time, we need to make sure the legitimate contributors like Karl don't get frustrated by the process, as happens all too often. I plan to be at the FUDCon and I'll post a session now on "Simplifying the Onboarding Process for the Fedora Project" or something similar. I'm not sure I'm the best guy to lead it though. Red Hat Legal should definitely be involved in the discussion at FUDCon. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 11:47:51 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 14:47:51 +0300 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712190307g3fa03039gde3f08ab8a6f25ea@mail.gmail.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> <4768A259.7020305@redhat.com> <6d4237680712190116h412434fi4c22a1ec8c2030af@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0712190307g3fa03039gde3f08ab8a6f25ea@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712190347q1c86d4d7h2534e27877b5fb1e@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 19, 2007 2:07 PM, John Babich wrote: > +1 > > I plan to be at the FUDCon and I'll post a session now on "Simplifying > the Onboarding Process for the Fedora Project" or something similar. > > I'm not sure I'm the best guy to lead it though. Red Hat Legal should > definitely be involved in the discussion at FUDCon. Done. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/SimplifyingOnboarding. > Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From techwriter at documentwrite.com Wed Dec 19 12:11:53 2007 From: techwriter at documentwrite.com (Malcolm Jacobson) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 22:11:53 +1000 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712190347q1c86d4d7h2534e27877b5fb1e@mail.gmail.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> <4768A259.7020305@redhat.com> <6d4237680712190116h412434fi4c22a1ec8c2030af@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0712190307g3fa03039gde3f08ab8a6f25ea@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0712190347q1c86d4d7h2534e27877b5fb1e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47690A89.5060203@documentwrite.com> Speaking strictly as an interested observer, can anyone explain why Fedora Docs doesn't use the same license and sign up process as Wikipedia? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights Cheers, Malcolm. John Babich wrote: > On Dec 19, 2007 2:07 PM, John Babich wrote: > > > > >> +1 >> >> > > >> I plan to be at the FUDCon and I'll post a session now on "Simplifying >> the Onboarding Process for the Fedora Project" or something similar. >> >> I'm not sure I'm the best guy to lead it though. Red Hat Legal should >> definitely be involved in the discussion at FUDCon. >> > > Done. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/SimplifyingOnboarding. > > > Best Regards, > > John Babich > Volunteer, Fedora Project > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Dec 19 13:31:33 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:01:33 +0530 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <47690A89.5060203@documentwrite.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> <4768A259.7020305@redhat.com> <6d4237680712190116h412434fi4c22a1ec8c2030af@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0712190307g3fa03039gde3f08ab8a6f25ea@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0712190347q1c86d4d7h2534e27877b5fb1e@mail.gmail.com> <47690A89.5060203@documentwrite.com> Message-ID: <47691D35.6050406@fedoraproject.org> Malcolm Jacobson wrote: > Speaking strictly as an interested observer, can anyone explain why > Fedora Docs doesn't use the same license and sign up process as Wikipedia? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights The needs are entirely different. They are a non-profit entity using the wiki as a form of mass encyclopedia where anonymous contributions are encouraged. Fedora Documentation Project uses a much more structured form and we need to much more careful about licensing. Rahul From dan at new2linux.com Wed Dec 19 14:03:21 2007 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 09:03:21 -0500 Subject: DUG Message-ID: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> Hello all, It's been a busy couple weeks and I haven't had much time to get much work done on the DUG. I'm going on a business trip for a couple days and had planned on spending the weekend catching up on the DUG. IIRC there was talk of having the DUG complete by sometime next week? What needs to be done? Regards, Dan O'Brien From k5di at zianet.com Wed Dec 19 20:45:16 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 13:45:16 -0700 Subject: CLA problem + Message-ID: <476982DC.6000509@zianet.com> I have been looking at what has been happening and decided to see where I got my information on your web site. Below are where I found instructions for getting a key: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join/CheckList Next I want to check out the CLA problem because it can be that this problem is a BUG for Fedora 8. Since most of you got this step done with zero trouble on earlier versions of Fedora it smells like something changed. Well you ask for and get a file attached to an email that is: fedora-icla-karl.txt and you are instructed to write: If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: I agree Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 E-mail: k5di at zianet.com Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 As you can see I did that. Then your supposed to sign this file with your GPG key using a gpg call. Here is what happened. At first it would error out with a complaint that a default was wrong. This went on for some time but then it seemed to work. It asked me for my password which I gave it and it made a new file that looks like this: fedora-icla-karl.txt.gpg This file is not what Fedora wants. I sent it in and it sent an error email back. This file is a binary file now and I have no way to read it. The file that is expected is fedora-icla-karl.asc but on F8 I don't get that. A question. Does anyone get the desired file on F8? This might be another problem. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From davidsonpaulo at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 21:04:29 2007 From: davidsonpaulo at gmail.com (Davidson Rodrigues Paulo) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 19:04:29 -0200 Subject: CLA problem + In-Reply-To: <476982DC.6000509@zianet.com> References: <476982DC.6000509@zianet.com> Message-ID: 2007/12/19, Karl Larsen : > At first it would error out with a complaint that a default was > wrong. This went on for some time but then it seemed to work. It asked > me for my password which I gave it and it made a new file that looks > like this: > > fedora-icla-karl.txt.gpg I think you forgot using "-a" parameter when running gpg tool. You need do run: $ gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt If you forget "-a", the result will be a .gpg file. The "-a" parameter is to generate a ASCII armor (text) signed file. > This file is not what Fedora wants. I sent it in and it sent an error > email back. This file is a binary file now and I have no way to read it. Yes. The file *need* to be a ASCII armor signed file with .asc extension. > A question. Does anyone get the desired file on F8? This might be > another problem. Well. I ran command above and got a .asc file, so I think all it's working well. Have you access on IRC? If yes, what is your nick? Join the #fedora-docs channel on irc.freende.net server. Regards, Davidson Paulo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DavidsonPaulo From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Dec 19 21:07:45 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:07:45 +1300 Subject: CLA problem + In-Reply-To: <476982DC.6000509@zianet.com> References: <476982DC.6000509@zianet.com> Message-ID: <47698821.3090006@mkc.co.nz> Karl, if you specify -a option as well, you should end up with .asc file produced, ie: 1] open terminal and cd to the directory where you saved the .txt attachment 2] gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt 3] fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc should now be in the same directory Vladimir Karl Larsen wrote: > I have been looking at what has been happening and decided to see > where I got my information on your web site. Below are where I found > instructions for getting a key: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join/CheckList > > Next I want to check out the CLA problem because it can be that this > problem is a BUG for Fedora 8. Since most of you got this step done with > zero trouble on earlier versions of Fedora it smells like something > changed. > > Well you ask for and get a file attached to an email that is: > > fedora-icla-karl.txt > and you are instructed to write: > > If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: I agree > Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen > Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 > E-mail: k5di at zianet.com > Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 > > As you can see I did that. Then your supposed to sign this file with > your GPG key using a gpg call. Here is what happened. > > At first it would error out with a complaint that a default was > wrong. This went on for some time but then it seemed to work. It asked > me for my password which I gave it and it made a new file that looks > like this: > > fedora-icla-karl.txt.gpg > > This file is not what Fedora wants. I sent it in and it sent an error > email back. This file is a binary file now and I have no way to read it. > > The file that is expected is fedora-icla-karl.asc but on F8 I don't > get that. > > A question. Does anyone get the desired file on F8? This might be > another problem. > > Karl > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Dec 19 21:50:28 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:50:28 +1000 Subject: CLA problem + In-Reply-To: <47698821.3090006@mkc.co.nz> References: <476982DC.6000509@zianet.com> <47698821.3090006@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712191350v4ce4d65fq3ea5fcc496873265@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 20, 2007 7:07 AM, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Karl, if you specify -a option as well, you should end up with .asc file > produced, ie: > > 1] open terminal and cd to the directory where you saved the .txt attachment > > 2] gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt > 3] fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc should now be in the same directory > > Vladimir > > > > > Karl Larsen wrote: > > I have been looking at what has been happening and decided to see > > where I got my information on your web site. Below are where I found > > instructions for getting a key: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join/CheckList > > > > Next I want to check out the CLA problem because it can be that this > > problem is a BUG for Fedora 8. Since most of you got this step done with > > zero trouble on earlier versions of Fedora it smells like something > > changed. > > > > Well you ask for and get a file attached to an email that is: > > > > fedora-icla-karl.txt > > and you are instructed to write: > > > > If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: I agree > > Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen > > Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 > > E-mail: k5di at zianet.com > > Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 > > > > As you can see I did that. Then your supposed to sign this file with > > your GPG key using a gpg call. Here is what happened. > > > > At first it would error out with a complaint that a default was > > wrong. This went on for some time but then it seemed to work. It asked > > me for my password which I gave it and it made a new file that looks > > like this: > > > > fedora-icla-karl.txt.gpg > > > > This file is not what Fedora wants. I sent it in and it sent an error > > email back. This file is a binary file now and I have no way to read it. > > > > The file that is expected is fedora-icla-karl.asc but on F8 I don't > > get that. > > > > A question. Does anyone get the desired file on F8? This might be > > another problem. > > > > Karl Hi, I believe that would have been my fault, I did not realise you could use -a instead of "--armor", so when I couldn't find "-a" I thought it might have been causing him problems. Yes, I'm a big help :) I should have checked "gpg --help" before opening my mouth :( Cheers, Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From k5di at zianet.com Wed Dec 19 22:04:39 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:04:39 -0700 Subject: CLA problem + In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712191350v4ce4d65fq3ea5fcc496873265@mail.gmail.com> References: <476982DC.6000509@zianet.com> <47698821.3090006@mkc.co.nz> <95f1114b0712191350v4ce4d65fq3ea5fcc496873265@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47699577.3090309@zianet.com> Murray McAllister wrote: > On Dec 20, 2007 7:07 AM, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > >> Karl, if you specify -a option as well, you should end up with .asc file >> produced, ie: >> >> 1] open terminal and cd to the directory where you saved the .txt attachment >> >> 2] gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt >> 3] fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc should now be in the same directory >> >> Vladimir >> >> >> I have been looking at what has been happening and decided to see where I got my information on your web site. Below are where I found instructions for getting a key: >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join/CheckList >> >> Next I want to check out the CLA problem because it can be that this problem is a BUG for Fedora 8. Since most of you got this step done with zero trouble on earlier versions of Fedora it smells like something changed. >> >> Well you ask for and get a file attached to an email that is: >> >> fedora-icla-karl.txt >> >> and you are instructed to write: >> >> If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: I agree >> Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen >> Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 >> E-mail: k5di at zianet.com >> Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 >> >> As you can see I did that. Then your supposed to sign this file with your GPG key using a gpg call. Here is what happened. >> >> At first it would error out with a complaint that a default was wrong. This went on for some time but then it seemed to work. It asked me for my password which I gave it and it made a new file that looks like this: >> >> fedora-icla-karl.txt.gpgfedora-icla-karl.txt.gpg >> >> This file is not what Fedora wants. I sent it in and it sent an error email back. This file is a binary file now and I have no way to read it. >> >> The file that is expected is fedora-icla-karl.asc but on F8 I don't get that. >> >> A question. Does anyone get the desired file on F8? This might be another problem. >> >> Karl >> >> OK. I wrote a file as you suggested using -a and the file is now ascii readable and the name of the file is: >> >> fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc >> >> and the file looks like this: >> >> [karl at k5di ~]$ more fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc >> -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) >> >> owG1Wc9vJEcVXog4YMEhEpcckEojgWylZ9a/vZ4IkYnXTkbx2ovHSxQhDjXd1TOF >> e7pbVd0eDwcEF4TEJVKExAGJEwIJIeXEP5C/hAMIhX+AAxJ871X1r/EEcmG12dg9 >> Xa/e+973vveq5qOvv/bky6/vr/7xyZ+//eZPvvSnb95NvxGrKDOyr8NE9u+kSQbF >> Q/Gu/uh74nauxAV/KF6a7EcqLLbEOI30vY5KmYizLC2MnpZFZsSlDlVqlRjNjFIL >> lRZi++xytLMl5kWRD58+XS6XA7fPwKhoLotBmC2eJm6Vfbq1JfDndi7TO7HKShHD >> JP5vhE4LZZQt8MMGd8R2MVe8 >> >> I sent this file back in exactly the way it was asked and I got this email back: >> >> With regards to "Re: Fedora Individual Contributor License Agreement". >> >> Your message could not be processed. >> >> Reason: >> >> The signature could not be processed. The signature may have been created or attached improperly, it might not match the key ID you have registered in the Account System, or the public key may not have been found on the key server. For guidance, please see the following page: >> >> It refers me to the wiki where I was before many times. >> >> A little progress but still not right. >> >> Karl >> >> -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 28AC 2D41 EF25 0417 7166 DD81 44BD ABFC FA8E C752 From k5di at zianet.com Wed Dec 19 22:52:47 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 15:52:47 -0700 Subject: CLA problem + In-Reply-To: <47699577.3090309@zianet.com> References: <476982DC.6000509@zianet.com> <47698821.3090006@mkc.co.nz> <95f1114b0712191350v4ce4d65fq3ea5fcc496873265@mail.gmail.com> <47699577.3090309@zianet.com> Message-ID: <4769A0BF.30800@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Murray McAllister wrote: >> On Dec 20, 2007 7:07 AM, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> >>> Karl, if you specify -a option as well, you should end up with .asc >>> file >>> produced, ie: >>> >>> 1] open terminal and cd to the directory where you saved the .txt >>> attachment >>> >>> 2] gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt >>> 3] fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc should now be in the same directory >>> >>> Vladimir >>> >>> >>> I have been looking at what has been happening and decided to >>> see where I got my information on your web site. Below are where I >>> found instructions for getting a key: >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join/CheckList >>> >>> Next I want to check out the CLA problem because it can be that >>> this problem is a BUG for Fedora 8. Since most of you got this step >>> done with zero trouble on earlier versions of Fedora it smells like >>> something changed. >>> Well you ask for and get a file attached to an email that is: >>> >>> fedora-icla-karl.txt >>> and you are instructed to write: >>> >>> If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: >>> I agree >>> Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen >>> Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 >>> E-mail: k5di at zianet.com >>> Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 >>> >>> As you can see I did that. Then your supposed to sign this file with >>> your GPG key using a gpg call. Here is what happened. >>> >>> At first it would error out with a complaint that a default was >>> wrong. This went on for some time but then it seemed to work. It >>> asked me for my password which I gave it and it made a new file that >>> looks like this: >>> >>> fedora-icla-karl.txt.gpgfedora-icla-karl.txt.gpg >>> This file is not what Fedora wants. I sent it in and it sent an >>> error email back. This file is a binary file now and I have no way >>> to read it. >>> The file that is expected is fedora-icla-karl.asc but on F8 I >>> don't get that. >>> A question. Does anyone get the desired file on F8? This might >>> be another problem. >>> Karl >>> >>> OK. I wrote a file as you suggested using -a and the file is now >>> ascii readable and the name of the file is: >>> >>> fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc >>> >>> and the file looks like this: >>> >>> [karl at k5di ~]$ more fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc >>> -----BEGIN PGP MESSAGE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) >>> >>> owG1Wc9vJEcVXog4YMEhEpcckEojgWylZ9a/vZ4IkYnXTkbx2ovHSxQhDjXd1TOF >>> e7pbVd0eDwcEF4TEJVKExAGJEwIJIeXEP5C/hAMIhX+AAxJ871X1r/EEcmG12dg9 >>> Xa/e+973vveq5qOvv/bky6/vr/7xyZ+//eZPvvSnb95NvxGrKDOyr8NE9u+kSQbF >>> Q/Gu/uh74nauxAV/KF6a7EcqLLbEOI30vY5KmYizLC2MnpZFZsSlDlVqlRjNjFIL >>> lRZi++xytLMl5kWRD58+XS6XA7fPwKhoLotBmC2eJm6Vfbq1JfDndi7TO7HKShHD >>> JP5vhE4LZZQt8MMGd8R2MVe8 >>> >>> I sent this file back in exactly the way it was asked and I got >>> this email back: >>> >>> With regards to "Re: Fedora Individual Contributor License Agreement". >>> >>> Your message could not be processed. >>> >>> Reason: >>> >>> The signature could not be processed. The signature may have been >>> created or attached improperly, it might not match the key ID you >>> have registered in the Account System, or the public key may not >>> have been found on the key server. For guidance, please see the >>> following page: >>> >>> It refers me to the wiki where I was before many times. >>> >>> A little progress but still not right. >>> Karl >>> >>> > > I just checked, and changed my email signature and am now certain the keys my registration has are the ones I'm now using. I have changed them a lot trying to get this system to work. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From gayleard at eircom.net Thu Dec 20 01:41:19 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 01:41:19 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy Message-ID: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> My name is Timothy Murphy. I am a retired mathematics lecturer at Trinity College Dublin (TCD) (although I still give courses, this year on Elliptic Curves: ). I have a fairly precise idea of what I would like to do for the Fedora Documentation Project, namely to bring Miles Brennan's "Linux Home Server HOWTO" within the Fedora Documentation Project. I should say that this has Miles' blessing. The latest version of his HOWTO is based on Fedora Core 5, and Miles says he does not have time to bring it up to date, and would welcome someone else taking on the task. This HOWTO assumes that the reader is running Fedora, so it is entirely appropriate that it should be brought under the auspices of the Fedora Documentation Project. It seems to me that this HOWTO serves a growing need, as more and more of us become administrators of small home systems, with several laptops and perhaps a desktop shared among family members and friends. I don't think this HOWTO as it is requires many content changes, although I appreciate that the Fedora Documentation Project has fairly precise style and format requirements. I have been using Linux since it first came out, having been a Minix user before that. (I still find Andy Tanenbaum's refusal to bring Minix to the 386 difficult to comprehend.) Much earlier, I introduced the first Unix system in Ireland, Unix V6 on a pdp-11/23, in the School of Mathematics at TCD, in 1979. I was also a very early user of TeX. and wrote one of the first TeX output drivers, for an IBM golf-ball typewriter. I am not a computer guru, but have a circle of highly-qualified friends in the Irish Linux Users Group (ILUG) who will ensure that any changes I make to the HOWTO will be accurate. gpg key: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Dec 20 01:46:57 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:46:57 +0900 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> Dan O'Brien wrote: > Hello all, > > It's been a busy couple weeks and I haven't had much time to get much > work done on the DUG. I'm going on a business trip for a couple days and > had planned on spending the weekend catching up on the DUG. IIRC there > was talk of having the DUG complete by sometime next week? What needs to > be done? > > Regards, > Dan O'Brien > > Hi Dan, Thats my fault I was supposed to be working on it this whole week but my son's been sick since last Friday and he's only just gone to day care today. I found some issues with the [1] xfce desktop which I'll fix tonight. Other things that need to be added if I remember was screenshots for kde? [2] Communications section [3] some information about getting compiz working though I see issues since the only opensource driver that works currently is the intel one. Some wireless, vpn and NetworkManager info[4], Kmymoney [5] and Multimedia should have and ipod howto since we are allowed to ship it should also have the steps to get mp3's using the links provided within the distribution. (I need feedback on this) I think if all those can be fixed today and I'll endeavor to work my way down the list if you want to work up the list we can have another look at it on the list to see what else people think needs to be added. Regards, Marc 1: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop 2: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/KdeDesktop 3: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Communications 4: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringInternet 5: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Financial From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Dec 20 01:49:55 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:49:55 +0900 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <4769CA43.3040308@mwiriadi.id.au> Timothy Murphy wrote: > > My name is Timothy Murphy. > I am a retired mathematics lecturer at Trinity College Dublin (TCD) > > (although I still give courses, > this year on Elliptic Curves: > ). > > I have a fairly precise idea of what I would like to do > for the Fedora Documentation Project, > namely to bring Miles Brennan's "Linux Home Server HOWTO" > > within the Fedora Documentation Project. > > I should say that this has Miles' blessing. > The latest version of his HOWTO is based on Fedora Core 5, > and Miles says he does not have time to bring it up to date, > and would welcome someone else taking on the task. > > This HOWTO assumes that the reader is running Fedora, > so it is entirely appropriate that it should be brought > under the auspices of the Fedora Documentation Project. > > It seems to me that this HOWTO serves > a growing need, as more and more of us > become administrators of small home systems, > with several laptops and perhaps a desktop > shared among family members and friends. > > I don't think this HOWTO as it is > requires many content changes, > although I appreciate that the Fedora Documentation Project > has fairly precise style and format requirements. > > I have been using Linux since it first came out, > having been a Minix user before that. > (I still find Andy Tanenbaum's refusal > to bring Minix to the 386 difficult to comprehend.) > Much earlier, I introduced the first Unix system in Ireland, > Unix V6 on a pdp-11/23, in the School of Mathematics at TCD, in 1979. > I was also a very early user of TeX. > and wrote one of the first TeX output drivers, > for an IBM golf-ball typewriter. > > I am not a computer guru, > but have a circle of highly-qualified friends > in the Irish Linux Users Group (ILUG) > who will ensure that any changes I make to the HOWTO > will be accurate. > > gpg key: > > Hi Tim, You would probably want to take a look at the Administration guide[1] that would be your area of expertise and area where it looks like you enjoy. Your best bet is to speak to Bart who will talk to you further. If you do have spare time the Desktop User Guide needs some loving as well. [2] Regards, Marc [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Dec 20 01:42:51 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:12:51 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <4769C89B.80607@fedoraproject.org> Timothy Murphy wrote: > > My name is Timothy Murphy. > I am a retired mathematics lecturer at Trinity College Dublin (TCD) > > (although I still give courses, > this year on Elliptic Curves: > ). > > I have a fairly precise idea of what I would like to do > for the Fedora Documentation Project, > namely to bring Miles Brennan's "Linux Home Server HOWTO" > > within the Fedora Documentation Project. > > I should say that this has Miles' blessing. > The latest version of his HOWTO is based on Fedora Core 5, > and Miles says he does not have time to bring it up to date, > and would welcome someone else taking on the task. Welcome to the Fedora Documentation Project Note that Linux Home Server Howto is under a different license than OPL without options which is what the documentation project uses. If you are planning to copy paste content from the HowTo, you would need explicit permission to relicense. Rahul From k5di at zianet.com Thu Dec 20 01:51:41 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2007 18:51:41 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <4769CAAD.3090507@zianet.com> Timothy Murphy wrote: > > My name is Timothy Murphy. > I am a retired mathematics lecturer at Trinity College Dublin (TCD) > > (although I still give courses, > this year on Elliptic Curves: > ). > > I have a fairly precise idea of what I would like to do > for the Fedora Documentation Project, > namely to bring Miles Brennan's "Linux Home Server HOWTO" > > within the Fedora Documentation Project. > > I should say that this has Miles' blessing. > The latest version of his HOWTO is based on Fedora Core 5, > and Miles says he does not have time to bring it up to date, > and would welcome someone else taking on the task. > > This HOWTO assumes that the reader is running Fedora, > so it is entirely appropriate that it should be brought > under the auspices of the Fedora Documentation Project. > > It seems to me that this HOWTO serves > a growing need, as more and more of us > become administrators of small home systems, > with several laptops and perhaps a desktop > shared among family members and friends. > > I don't think this HOWTO as it is > requires many content changes, > although I appreciate that the Fedora Documentation Project > has fairly precise style and format requirements. > > I have been using Linux since it first came out, > having been a Minix user before that. > (I still find Andy Tanenbaum's refusal > to bring Minix to the 386 difficult to comprehend.) > Much earlier, I introduced the first Unix system in Ireland, > Unix V6 on a pdp-11/23, in the School of Mathematics at TCD, in 1979. > I was also a very early user of TeX. > and wrote one of the first TeX output drivers, > for an IBM golf-ball typewriter. > > I am not a computer guru, > but have a circle of highly-qualified friends > in the Irish Linux Users Group (ILUG) > who will ensure that any changes I make to the HOWTO > will be accurate. > > gpg key: > > Hello Timothy Murphy and Welcome to the Group. I am not yet a member because part of the setup will not work for me on F8. I suspect it worked fine on FC5. Your papers will be a god-send to this Group! Anything that is near perfect for FC5 can be updated to say F9 in good time. If you have run into any problems with joining the Group please share them. In particular were you able to complete the legal part of joining? I was not able to return my signed document for some reason. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From gayleard at eircom.net Thu Dec 20 02:12:48 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 02:12:48 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <4769CA43.3040308@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769CA43.3040308@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <200712200212.48303.gayleard@eircom.net> On Thursday 20 December 2007 01:49:55 am Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > You would probably want to take a look at the Administration guide[1] > that would be your area of expertise and area where it looks like you > enjoy. > > Your best bet is to speak to Bart who will talk to you further. If you > do have spare time the Desktop User Guide needs some loving as well. [2] I will indeed look at the project guides. But my aim is fairly precise, as I said, namely to bring Miles Brennan's "Linux Home Server HOWTO" within the Fedora Documentation Project. If that proves to be impossible for some reason (including licensing) I would not really be interested in any other aspect of the documentation - I would probably help to update the HOWTO outside the Project. From gayleard at eircom.net Thu Dec 20 02:28:49 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 02:28:49 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <4769CAAD.3090507@zianet.com> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769CAAD.3090507@zianet.com> Message-ID: <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> On Thursday 20 December 2007 01:51:41 am Karl Larsen wrote: > Hello Timothy Murphy and Welcome to the Group. I am not yet a member > because part of the setup will not work for me on F8. I suspect it worked > fine on FC5. > > Your papers will be a god-send to this Group! Anything that is near > perfect for FC5 can be updated to say F9 in good time. > > If you have run into any problems with joining the Group please share > them. In particular were you able to complete the legal part of joining? I > was not able to return my signed document for some reason. I haven't reached that hurdle yet. I agree with you that the documentation about Fedora documentation leaves a lot to be desired. I followed the instructions for sending one's gpg key to the MIT server in but they did not work - the command gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys 0x1381C1A4F resulted in the error message gpg: "0x1381C1A4F" not a key ID: skipping I was able nevertheless to send the key by registering the server hkp://pgp.mit.edu:11371 in kgpg (it did not appear among the servers there, as the wiki documents suggest it does) and then exporting my key. I'm not convinced that whoever wrote this wiki document ever tried out his own instructions; I suspect that he (or she) just "knew" they must work. From gayleard at eircom.net Thu Dec 20 02:37:59 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 02:37:59 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <4769C89B.80607@fedoraproject.org> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769C89B.80607@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200712200238.00015.gayleard@eircom.net> On Thursday 20 December 2007 01:42:51 am Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Welcome to the Fedora Documentation Project > > Note that Linux Home Server Howto is under a different license than OPL > without options which is what the documentation project uses. If you are > planning to copy paste content from the HowTo, you would need explicit > permission to relicense. Well, I haven't sold my soul to the Fedora Documentation Project. If the HOWTO doesn't suit the project I'll probably update it anyway, and leave it outside. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Dec 20 02:41:40 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:11:40 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712200238.00015.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769C89B.80607@fedoraproject.org> <200712200238.00015.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <4769D664.1020609@fedoraproject.org> Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Thursday 20 December 2007 01:42:51 am Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Welcome to the Fedora Documentation Project >> >> Note that Linux Home Server Howto is under a different license than OPL >> without options which is what the documentation project uses. If you are >> planning to copy paste content from the HowTo, you would need explicit >> permission to relicense. > > Well, I haven't sold my soul to the Fedora Documentation Project. I have no idea what this means and it's relevance to what I said. Maybe you have a misunderstanding. I am merely pointing out a licensing requirement. If you are deriving your work from existing content, you need a explicit permission from the original authors to relicense it. This is true regardless of whether you work with the Fedora Documentation Project or not. The author has previously confirmed that he would be ok with others basing their work on his but it would courteous to reconfirm at this point. > If the HOWTO doesn't suit the project I'll probably update it anyway, > and leave it outside. The content itself is very well suitable however the license is not. The non-commercial restriction the document currently has is not acceptable. Refer http://www.brennan.id.au/01-Introduction.html#copyright Fedora Documentation Project as with Fedora itself requires content to be under a free and open license and it has selected OPL with no options to meet this requirement. If the authors are willing to relicense content, you can copy paste directly. Otherwise you can just use the factual information and will have to write a new document based on those factual information. Rahul From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 05:27:31 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:27:31 +1000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769CAAD.3090507@zianet.com> <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712192127t57ddeff8n562568d261b7bc62@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 20, 2007 12:28 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Thursday 20 December 2007 01:51:41 am Karl Larsen wrote: > > > Hello Timothy Murphy and Welcome to the Group. I am not yet a member > > because part of the setup will not work for me on F8. I suspect it worked > > fine on FC5. > > > > Your papers will be a god-send to this Group! Anything that is near > > perfect for FC5 can be updated to say F9 in good time. > > > > If you have run into any problems with joining the Group please share > > them. In particular were you able to complete the legal part of joining? I > > was not able to return my signed document for some reason. > > I haven't reached that hurdle yet. > > I agree with you that the documentation about Fedora documentation > leaves a lot to be desired. > I followed the instructions for sending one's gpg key to the MIT server > in > but they did not work - the command > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys 0x1381C1A4F > resulted in the error message > gpg: "0x1381C1A4F" not a key ID: skipping > Hi Tim, Thanks for joining. I'm glad you got your keys sorted out. That was almost correct, but you do not need the 0x pre-pended (so it would be 1381C1A4F). Out of curiosity, where did you find that information (0x)? Kind Regards, Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From miles at brennan.id.au Thu Dec 20 07:36:01 2007 From: miles at brennan.id.au (Miles Brennan) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:36:01 +1000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <476A1B61.5040508@brennan.id.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Timothy Murphy wrote: > > My name is Timothy Murphy. > I am a retired mathematics lecturer at Trinity College Dublin (TCD) > > (although I still give courses, > this year on Elliptic Curves: > ). > > I have a fairly precise idea of what I would like to do > for the Fedora Documentation Project, > namely to bring Miles Brennan's "Linux Home Server HOWTO" > > within the Fedora Documentation Project. > > I should say that this has Miles' blessing. > The latest version of his HOWTO is based on Fedora Core 5, > and Miles says he does not have time to bring it up to date, > and would welcome someone else taking on the task. > > This HOWTO assumes that the reader is running Fedora, > so it is entirely appropriate that it should be brought > under the auspices of the Fedora Documentation Project. > > It seems to me that this HOWTO serves > a growing need, as more and more of us > become administrators of small home systems, > with several laptops and perhaps a desktop > shared among family members and friends. > > I don't think this HOWTO as it is > requires many content changes, > although I appreciate that the Fedora Documentation Project > has fairly precise style and format requirements. > > I have been using Linux since it first came out, > having been a Minix user before that. > (I still find Andy Tanenbaum's refusal > to bring Minix to the 386 difficult to comprehend.) > Much earlier, I introduced the first Unix system in Ireland, > Unix V6 on a pdp-11/23, in the School of Mathematics at TCD, in 1979. > I was also a very early user of TeX. > and wrote one of the first TeX output drivers, > for an IBM golf-ball typewriter. > > I am not a computer guru, > but have a circle of highly-qualified friends > in the Irish Linux Users Group (ILUG) > who will ensure that any changes I make to the HOWTO > will be accurate. > > gpg key: > > > Tim, Thanks for the post and email off-list. Your offer to support the Linux Home Server HOWTO is greatly appreciated. I have replied to your original email off-list so we can sort out some of the finer details. Regards, Miles Brennan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHahthcSPa0xQu/fARApkfAKClQ4HcG0TmnnKcVV04wgR3RhEXjgCeNrjm eIot+PXoTNSJAmnlzZA2ZQo= =A7DZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gayleard at eircom.net Thu Dec 20 11:43:59 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 11:43:59 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712192127t57ddeff8n562568d261b7bc62@mail.gmail.com> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> <95f1114b0712192127t57ddeff8n562568d261b7bc62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200712201143.59246.gayleard@eircom.net> On Thursday 20 December 2007 05:27:31 am Murray McAllister wrote: > > I followed the instructions for sending one's gpg key to the MIT server > > in > > but they did not work - the command > > gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys 0x1381C1A4F > > resulted in the error message > > gpg: "0x1381C1A4F" not a key ID: skipping > Thanks for joining. I'm glad you got your keys sorted out. That was > almost correct, but you do not need the 0x pre-pended (so it would be > 1381C1A4F). Out of curiosity, where did you find that information > (0x)? I actually tried with and without 0x, as well as using capitals and lowercase. All resulted in the same error. I'm afraid my conclusion is that the command as given in simply does not work. In any case, it is bad documentation to say that one should give the KEYID without explaining precisely what that means, or better, giving an explicit example. I note that kgpg adds the port (11371) to the URI; I don't know if that is necessary. As for using the prefix 0x, you will find that if you google for "gnupg keyid" almost all the examples given do this. It is of course the Unix standard for hexadecimal notation. However, I tried with and without, as I said. From gayleard at eircom.net Thu Dec 20 12:13:18 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 12:13:18 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <4769D664.1020609@fedoraproject.org> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200238.00015.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769D664.1020609@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200712201213.18287.gayleard@eircom.net> On Thursday 20 December 2007 02:41:40 am Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Note that Linux Home Server Howto is under a different license than OPL > >> without options which is what the documentation project uses. If you are > >> planning to copy paste content from the HowTo, you would need explicit > >> permission to relicense. > > > > Well, I haven't sold my soul to the Fedora Documentation Project. > > I have no idea what this means and it's relevance to what I said. I think what I said is reasonably clear. But to put it brutally: it doesn't seem to me to matter greatly if a document does or does not come within the auspices of the Fedora Documentation Project. I doubt if it makes much difference to those who read it. This HOWTO _is_ a Fedora-oriented document, so the Document Project is a fairly natural place for it to live. > Maybe you have a misunderstanding. I don't think so. > I am merely pointing out a licensing > requirement. If you are deriving your work from existing content, you > need a explicit permission from the original authors to relicense it. > This is true regardless of whether you work with the Fedora > Documentation Project or not. The author has previously confirmed that > he would be ok with others basing their work on his but it would > courteous to reconfirm at this point. As it happens, Miles Brennan wrote to me to say, more or less, that he was happy with the Document Project licence. I must admit I am slightly allergic to the endless discussion of the myriad of open source licences, which seems to me to cause much more trouble than any good it does. (I suspect that I follow in the footsteps of Linus Torvald in this.) I don't usually agree with Karl Larsen (that is an under-statement) but I agree with him that the Fedora Documentation Project seems to be run in an excessively formalistic way, with pointless hurdles erected in the way of those who want to help. The idea of making life simple does not seem to rank high in the order of priorities. If the Project was a roaring success this might be understandable. But as far as I can see the result of this formality has been that the output of the project has been meagre, to put it mildly. In fact there seems to be far more discussion _about_ the Project than actual documentation produced by it. From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 13:46:37 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:46:37 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712201213.18287.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200238.00015.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769D664.1020609@fedoraproject.org> <200712201213.18287.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712200546h4148fd8bi17b70ad5ba1c1924@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 20, 2007 3:13 PM, Timothy Murphy wrote: < some material snipped > > I don't usually agree with Karl Larsen (that is an under-statement) > but I agree with him that the Fedora Documentation Project > seems to be run in an excessively formalistic way, > with pointless hurdles erected in the way of those who want to help. > The idea of making life simple does not seem to rank high > in the order of priorities. > As a member of the Fedora Docs Project for past 18 months, I definitely agree. However, there's a great opportunity to solve this at the upcoming FUDCon. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/SimplifyingOnboarding. Things get done at FUDCons. > If the Project was a roaring success this might be understandable. > But as far as I can see the result of this formality > has been that the output of the project has been meagre, to put it mildly. > In fact there seems to be far more discussion _about_ the Project > than actual documentation produced by it. In my opinion, two big blocking issues are 1. complications due to licensing 2. too complex a procedure to join the Docs Project I'm still optimistic that these are growing pains and can be successfully dealt with. Please hang in there. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From lambert1791 at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 14:47:53 2007 From: lambert1791 at gmail.com (Marcel Lambert) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 17:47:53 +0300 Subject: Self-introduction for Fedora documentation project Message-ID: <4cc838cc0712200647t6f445262ge4ac0a965a35aec5@mail.gmail.com> Hello, My name is Marcel Lambert. I became a practitioner of Linux due to internet security reasons with the release of Red Hat 9 and since then I live with it and maintain occasional notes at http://netston.tripod.com/Windows_Linux.htm. When choosing OS I am a conservative (you can call me rational minority), and I use both Linux and Windows and live with advantages and disadvantages of both. Originally, I got closely acquainted with computers about 25 year ago being a student in natural sciences, and moved to IT entirely shortly after. I designed and developed software, managed numerous IT projects. A turning point in my career was in Tradescape.com, later purchased by E*Trade, where I had managed a project (and was a key architect/developer) for MTrade platform for trading stocks on NASDAQ/NYSE. My internet nickname is ARMADILLO, and I am interested in writing about security topics and all the things in Fedora that help adventurous, safety-demanding armadillos explore the world with Linux :-) A+ # gpg --fingerprint 753472E1 pub 1024D/753472E1 2007-12-20 Marcel Lambert Key fingerprint = 3C9D C0F6 F337 B3C0 C099 4BC6 3380 95D1 7534 72E1 sub 1024g/0BA991E9 2007-12-20 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From k5di at zianet.com Thu Dec 20 15:25:04 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 08:25:04 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712201143.59246.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> <95f1114b0712192127t57ddeff8n562568d261b7bc62@mail.gmail.com> <200712201143.59246.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <476A8950.4010204@zianet.com> Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Thursday 20 December 2007 05:27:31 am Murray McAllister wrote: > > >>> I followed the instructions for sending one's gpg key to the MIT server >>> in >>> but they did not work - the command >>> gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys 0x1381C1A4F >>> resulted in the error message >>> gpg: "0x1381C1A4F" not a key ID: skipping >>> > > >> Thanks for joining. I'm glad you got your keys sorted out. That was >> almost correct, but you do not need the 0x pre-pended (so it would be >> 1381C1A4F). Out of curiosity, where did you find that information >> (0x)? >> > > I actually tried with and without 0x, > as well as using capitals and lowercase. > All resulted in the same error. > > I'm afraid my conclusion is that the command as given > in > simply does not work. > > In any case, it is bad documentation to say that one should give the KEYID > without explaining precisely what that means, > or better, giving an explicit example. > > I note that kgpg adds the port (11371) to the URI; > I don't know if that is necessary. > > As for using the prefix 0x, > you will find that if you google for "gnupg keyid" > almost all the examples given do this. > It is of course the Unix standard for hexadecimal notation. > However, I tried with and without, as I said. > > Hi Tim, the error your getting from MIT sounds like the real thing. Your key might well be bad. I suggest you make a new key with gpg which should be on your computer. Then try it again with MIT. On all your other observations about the Fedora Doc web pages I agree. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Dec 20 15:26:59 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:26:59 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <476A8950.4010204@zianet.com> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> <95f1114b0712192127t57ddeff8n562568d261b7bc62@mail.gmail.com> <200712201143.59246.gayleard@eircom.net> <476A8950.4010204@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1198164419.2674.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> > On all your other observations about the Fedora Doc web pages I agree. Hey, You know if you're still interested in helping out with docs after all your troubles with getting started, why not try updating the pages you found problems with and improving them!? Might not be documenting the actual operating system but it shouldn't take too long and once you've done it could well make it a lot easier for new contributors in the future - would be a great help :D Best wishes, Jon > > > Karl > > > -- > > Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI > Linux User > #450462 http://counter.li.org. > PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E > From davidsonpaulo at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 15:46:28 2007 From: davidsonpaulo at gmail.com (Davidson Rodrigues Paulo) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:46:28 -0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <1198164419.2674.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> <95f1114b0712192127t57ddeff8n562568d261b7bc62@mail.gmail.com> <200712201143.59246.gayleard@eircom.net> <476A8950.4010204@zianet.com> <1198164419.2674.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: 2007/12/20, Jonathan Roberts : > You know if you're still interested in helping out with docs after all > your troubles with getting started, why not try updating the pages you > found problems with and improving them!? Yes. I updated 2 wiki pages to insert instructions on how to use only graphical tools to create PGP keys and sign files during CLA request just after my fianc? had problems doing this. You have a problem -> You fix the problem -> You document the fixing process -> You share it to the world -> The world turns better :-P Davidson Paulo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DavidsonPaulo From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Dec 20 16:32:01 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:32:01 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> <95f1114b0712192127t57ddeff8n562568d261b7bc62@mail.gmail.com> <200712201143.59246.gayleard@eircom.net> <476A8950.4010204@zianet.com> <1198164419.2674.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712200832j3fa1c515sc53ced9063d09ecb@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 20, 2007 6:46 PM, Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: > You have a problem -> You fix the problem -> You document the fixing > process -> You share it to the world -> The world turns better :-P > +1 John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From k5di at zianet.com Thu Dec 20 16:37:40 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 09:37:40 -0700 Subject: CLA problem + In-Reply-To: <47698821.3090006@mkc.co.nz> References: <476982DC.6000509@zianet.com> <47698821.3090006@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <476A9A54.3000703@zianet.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Karl, if you specify -a option as well, you should end up with .asc file > produced, ie: > > 1] open terminal and cd to the directory where you saved the .txt attachment > > 2] gpg -a --sign fedora-icla-karl.txt > 3] fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc should now be in the same directory > > Vladimir > > > > Karl Larsen wrote: > >> I have been looking at what has been happening and decided to see >> where I got my information on your web site. Below are where I found >> instructions for getting a key: >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem/CLAHowTo >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join/CheckList >> >> Next I want to check out the CLA problem because it can be that this >> problem is a BUG for Fedora 8. Since most of you got this step done with >> zero trouble on earlier versions of Fedora it smells like something >> changed. >> >> Well you ask for and get a file attached to an email that is: >> >> fedora-icla-karl.txt >> and you are instructed to write: >> >> If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: I agree >> Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen >> Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 >> E-mail: k5di at zianet.com >> Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 >> >> As you can see I did that. Then your supposed to sign this file with >> your GPG key using a gpg call. Here is what happened. >> >> At first it would error out with a complaint that a default was >> wrong. This went on for some time but then it seemed to work. It asked >> me for my password which I gave it and it made a new file that looks >> like this: >> >> fedora-icla-karl.txt.gpg >> >> This file is not what Fedora wants. I sent it in and it sent an error >> email back. This file is a binary file now and I have no way to read it. >> >> The file that is expected is fedora-icla-karl.asc but on F8 I don't >> get that. >> >> A question. Does anyone get the desired file on F8? This might be >> another problem. >> >> Karl >> >> >> > > Another plan to get your CLA accepted. It says in fedora-icla-karl.txt that I can send them a signed pdf file. As it happens Gedit has a way to make a pdf of my file so I did it and sent it to there legal address. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From k5di at zianet.com Thu Dec 20 20:26:24 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 13:26:24 -0700 Subject: CLA work Message-ID: <476ACFF0.6030301@zianet.com> I had trouble with converting the file sent to me by the CLA page which has the needed words to satisfy the requirements when I put in "I Accept" and Karl Larsen. The method I tried was to convert this .txt file to a .txt.asc file. I got that to work after some trouble but when I emailed that back to Fedora it failed. Next I tried another method which may work as well. In the words of the file I got is below: If necessary, you may send it by facsimile to the Project at +1-919-754-3704 or e-mail a signed pdf copy of the document to fedora-legal at redhat.com. Please read this document carefully before signing and keep a copy for your records. I decided to make a pdf of the text file called fedora-icla-karl.txt after adding the words asked for in it. This can be done on F7 and F8 using Gedit. You can start Gedit by clicking Applications-> Accessories-> Text Editor and it will come up ready to use. Click New and then look for where your CLA file is and bring it up. Down near the end it asks you to write on the file as shown below: If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: I agree Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 E-mail: k5di at zianet.com Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 Notice where "I agree" and "Karl Larsen" are written. Using your own name fill these out. Now click on Print... and you have a new panel appear and near the top see where you click for a pdf file. Another panel comes up and you can give the pdf file your own name or take the default "output.pdf". Make sure you save the file by clicking on "Save". On the file is the email address for Red Hat legal which is: fedora-legal at redhat.com On this email attach the pdf file you made. When your done you have finished all requirements for joining the Fedora Documentation Group. It might take a day or two before the file is read and approved. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 20 22:47:23 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:47:23 -0800 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <47690A89.5060203@documentwrite.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> <4768A259.7020305@redhat.com> <6d4237680712190116h412434fi4c22a1ec8c2030af@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0712190307g3fa03039gde3f08ab8a6f25ea@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0712190347q1c86d4d7h2534e27877b5fb1e@mail.gmail.com> <47690A89.5060203@documentwrite.com> Message-ID: <1198190848.3593.85.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-12-19 at 22:11 +1000, Malcolm Jacobson wrote: > Speaking strictly as an interested observer, can anyone explain why > Fedora Docs doesn't use the same license and sign up process as > Wikipedia? > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights While we cannot use the GNU FDL as Wikipedia does (see below for background[1]), we certainly can allow a simpler process to get contributors on the wiki. A click-through CLA (read, then click "OK, I agree") is sufficient, but not enabled in our version of Moin Moin. Resolving this should be a higher priority. We're challenged by a release process not our own. Let's ask Mike (under a new thread) about what it would take to circumnavigate this. - Karsten [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Licensing/FAQ > Cheers, > > Malcolm. > > > John Babich wrote: > > On Dec 19, 2007 2:07 PM, John Babich wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > +1 > > > > > > > > > > > > > I plan to be at the FUDCon and I'll post a session now on "Simplifying > > > the Onboarding Process for the Fedora Project" or something similar. > > > > > > I'm not sure I'm the best guy to lead it though. Red Hat Legal should > > > definitely be involved in the discussion at FUDCon. > > > > > > > Done. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/SimplifyingOnboarding. > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > John Babich > > Volunteer, Fedora Project > > > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 20 22:51:18 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 14:51:18 -0800 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA Message-ID: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> Mike and other fellow Fedorans: We've discussed this a small amount on f-infrastructure-list, and even more on IRC. Can we run a beta of Moin 1.6 so we can get the click-through CLA? What do you want to do about the wiki, in general? The poor wiki beast. It sits in the middle of all of us, and while Infrastructure owns it operationally ("keep the lights on"), who owns it spiritually? Should that be Fedora Docs? Could that be Fedora Docs? Be careful, those may be different answers. :) What would such an ownership/stewardship role mean? For one, we would have to push through the click-through CLA and enable an army of people to own and help maintain page quality. As Wikipedia has learned before us. For other thoughts here, I open the floor to you all ... - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 20 23:09:23 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:09:23 -0800 Subject: fixing what we can Message-ID: <1198192163.3593.108.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-12-19 at 14:47 +1000, Christopher Curran wrote: > I have to agree, fedora docs project is by far the hardest project I've > ever tried to join. Previous development projects all I had to do is > send an email and hey presto SVN write access. This whole process is so > long and drawn out it is probably marginalising a whole swathe of > potential contributers. It is certain there are people who fall to the wayside with this process. The inevitability of that is a separate, semi-philosophical discussion. When you say "the fedora docs project", do you mean this sub-project itself? Or "the Fedora Project" in general? Most of the challenges we've discussed so far are all about the overall project joining process and not specific to Fedora Docs. We can do best by improving what we have in our purview. What have we discovered in the recent threads that we can directly fix from Fedora Docs or our positions elsewhere in Fedora? The second iteration of the Fedora account system (FAS2) is close to release. It resolves a lot of the historical problems of the old system. It does not, however, remove the requirement to agree to the CLA. However, the need to GPG sign the CLA may be required only for people who work on code and content that goes into a release. Since code and content from places such as bugzilla and the wiki can be filtered through people who have GPG-signed the CLA, a click-through can suffice where needed (the wiki, not bugzilla.) As Fedora has grown, we have a strange irony. Work we did in the past to resolve single-point problems ("Need wiki, must be Python? Moin Moin it is) have come to bite us as we are growing because they don't scale the way we need to. However, now that we have grown, it is harder to replace semi-broken stuff we have relied upon ("Migrate from the wiki? But we have 10,000 pages, DocBook XML dependencies, and on and on ...") Rooting these cases out and making them flexible, scalable, and best fit is a challenge that the Fedora Infrastructure and (now) Websites teams are doing a great job with over the last (almost) year. I'm *very* encouraged about our future here. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Thu Dec 20 23:10:26 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:10:26 -0700 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <1198190848.3593.85.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> <47689E4F.5030006@mkc.co.nz> <4768A259.7020305@redhat.com> <6d4237680712190116h412434fi4c22a1ec8c2030af@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0712190307g3fa03039gde3f08ab8a6f25ea@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0712190347q1c86d4d7h2534e27877b5fb1e@mail.gmail.com> <47690A89.5060203@documentwrite.com> <1198190848.3593.85.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <476AF662.2090803@zianet.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-12-19 at 22:11 +1000, Malcolm Jacobson wrote: > >> Speaking strictly as an interested observer, can anyone explain why >> Fedora Docs doesn't use the same license and sign up process as >> Wikipedia? >> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Copyrights >> > > While we cannot use the GNU FDL as Wikipedia does (see below for > background[1]), we certainly can allow a simpler process to get > contributors on the wiki. A click-through CLA (read, then click "OK, I > agree") is sufficient, but not enabled in our version of Moin Moin. > > Resolving this should be a higher priority. We're challenged by a > release process not our own. > > Let's ask Mike (under a new thread) about what it would take to > circumnavigate this. > > - Karsten > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Licensing/FAQ > > >> Cheers, >> >> Malcolm. >> >> >> John Babich wrote: >> >>> On Dec 19, 2007 2:07 PM, John Babich wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> +1 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>>> I plan to be at the FUDCon and I'll post a session now on "Simplifying >>>> the Onboarding Process for the Fedora Project" or something similar. >>>> >>>> I'm not sure I'm the best guy to lead it though. Red Hat Legal should >>>> definitely be involved in the discussion at FUDCon. >>>> >>>> >>> Done. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/SimplifyingOnboarding. >>> >>> >>> Best Regards, >>> >>> John Babich >>> Volunteer, Fedora Project >>> >>> >>> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> All of this legal crap is too too much for me. I know it is necessary but it appears I decided to join the group at the single worst time. I expect the changes in the Documentation is so in progress it is why the things I am trying to do don't work. To my understanding right now no-one is writing a thing. I tried to join to write and feel good about improving things so you stop hearing how poor the Fedora Help is. So I will just wait until it is possible to sign up in an hour. Until then there will be few new writers. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 20 23:37:51 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:37:51 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712200546h4148fd8bi17b70ad5ba1c1924@mail.gmail.com> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200238.00015.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769D664.1020609@fedoraproject.org> <200712201213.18287.gayleard@eircom.net> <9d2c731f0712200546h4148fd8bi17b70ad5ba1c1924@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1198193871.3593.125.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 16:46 +0300, John Babich wrote: > In my opinion, two big blocking issues are > 1. complications due to licensing Cannot be helped. The OPL is the only good license for Fedora content. If the situation changes or a sufficient license arrives, we can use it. The complications of copyright law, US law, and other intellectual property laws are not the fault of this project. We do with what we can. :) > 2. too complex a procedure to join the Docs Project How? This oft-repeated phrase needs some justification. I'd like to see a specific list of what is too complicated. For that, I started a separate thread, "fixing what we can". Thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 20 23:40:49 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:40:49 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769CAAD.3090507@zianet.com> <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <1198194049.3593.129.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 02:28 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > I'm not convinced that whoever wrote this wiki document > ever tried out his own instructions; > I suspect that he (or she) just "knew" they must work. Probably old instructions needing updating? "'Tis the cobbler's children who are barefoot and the carpenter's roof that leaks." - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 02:00:22 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 20:00:22 -0600 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > Mike and other fellow Fedorans: > > We've discussed this a small amount on f-infrastructure-list, and even > more on IRC. > > Can we run a beta of Moin 1.6 so we can get the click-through CLA? > a test instance to setup or migrate the production wiki to Moin 1.6? > What do you want to do about the wiki, in general? > pretend it doesn't exist :) > The poor wiki beast. It sits in the middle of all of us, and while > Infrastructure owns it operationally ("keep the lights on"), who owns it > spiritually? > > Should that be Fedora Docs? > > Could that be Fedora Docs? > Not sure, the websites team should probably work with docs on this. I feel like there's a lot of content on the wiki that should be elsewhere. I think removing content from the wiki and moving it elsewhere (docs.fp.o or fp.o) Almost like no end-user content should end up in the wiki. (probably a dream world) > Be careful, those may be different answers. :) > > What would such an ownership/stewardship role mean? > > For one, we would have to push through the click-through CLA and enable > an army of people to own and help maintain page quality. As Wikipedia > has learned before us. > Now this click-through CLA is one that is not tied to the user correct? Just something they're prompted with when editing the page with an unverified account. I worry what an army of people who don't have enough stake in Fedora to fully sign the CLA will do for/to Fedora. But it is the open way :) I'd like to get rid of the CLA all together. On a side note, there's going to be an FAS session during FUDCon, I'd encourage anyone that is interested to come on by. -Mike From kwade at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 03:07:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 19:07:22 -0800 Subject: Enough In-Reply-To: <476B0116.4070809@zianet.com> References: <47686872.5050909@zianet.com> <95f1114b0712181726t50b384f7i2771e03b03070b2e@mail.gmail.com> <4768774F.1080209@zianet.com> <47688D86.1010208@redhat.com> <47689220.8090809@zianet.com> <1198193214.3593.121.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B0116.4070809@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1198206442.3593.143.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 16:56 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > I was tired and frustrated. I revert to slang when in this mood and > it is in bad taste. But years ago I owned a business and it was not bad > manners to cuss in business. Sure, we all get tired and frustrated and do some version of cussing. My concern was mainly with the tone and attitude from a contributor toward another contributor. > The current Fedora Doc is almost impossible to join. Much of the > Fedora features have no, or very poor documentation. So I now know why > the documentation is poor. I do not wish those of you who have been here > for years any ill will. > > Please look at the demographic numbers for your group. How much > money did you make last year? How many more are on the staff? All this > will be small and it is because of the way you run it. I presume you mean that as a metaphor? Because there are no staff or profits. Fedora Docs is 100% volunteer contributors, including myself. > Perhaps I should have quit when I planed to. Looking at your plans > the Legal work will take lots of hours through March 08 and that will > slide I'm sure :-) > > Merry Christmas to you all. And to you, as well as a happy New Year. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 06:14:25 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:14:25 +0900 (WST) Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Hey all, I have added the screenshots and modified the page since it was a copy of the Gnome Desktop page. Can someone look at it and tell me if I'm missing something. Any associated edits done will be greatly appreciated. The screenshots were manually done and look pretty rough. If someone knows where to get the actual icons from I will go and grab them and replace the ones currently there with the actual icons. Cheers, Marc http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 06:21:09 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:21:09 +0300 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 5:00 AM, Mike McGrath wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: < snipped Karsten's insightful and carefully crafted words > > Now this click-through CLA is one that is not tied to the user correct? > Just something they're prompted with when editing the page with an > unverified account. I worry what an army of people who don't have > enough stake in Fedora to fully sign the CLA will do for/to Fedora. But > it is the open way :) I'd like to get rid of the CLA all together. > I've seen the alternative and it ain't pretty. > On a side note, there's going to be an FAS session during FUDCon, I'd > encourage anyone that is interested to come on by. Thanks for the plug, Mike. I think fixing this at FUDCon is possible and will reap real benefits. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/SimplifyingOnboarding for the latest refinement of the session. Best Regards. John "freedom in a framework with mutual respect" Babich From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 06:32:49 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:32:49 +0300 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712202232h6585bc10j9b206e6c03e55ac@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 9:14 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey all, > > I have added the screenshots and modified the page since it was a copy of > the Gnome Desktop page. Thanks for the updates, Marc. > > Can someone look at it and tell me if I'm missing something. Any > associated edits done will be greatly appreciated. I'm using Xfce right now as my desktop manager, so I will be glad to do so. > > The screenshots were manually done and look pretty rough. If someone knows > where to get the actual icons from I will go and grab them and replace the > ones currently there with the actual icons. I'll check it out and get back to you. > > Cheers, > > > Marc > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 06:51:44 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:51:44 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1198219904.7443.1.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Another update for Multimedia I just added the gtkpod section at the bottom of the page. I haven't had a fresh install for awhile so if someone has a fresh install please tell me if automounting of ipod's working out of the box because I have said they haven't. I'm not to sure whether I should put the menu location or whether I should add a screenshot. Regards, Marc http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Multimedia From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 07:34:18 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 10:34:18 +0300 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1198219904.7443.1.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198219904.7443.1.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712202334r73f8db1ava363d0c8561033d4@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 9:51 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Another update for Multimedia I just added the gtkpod section at the > bottom of the page. > I saw it and did some minor editing already. > I haven't had a fresh install for awhile so if someone has a fresh > install please tell me if automounting of ipod's working out of the box > because I have said they haven't. > I'm getting the F8 DVD soon and can verify it. > I'm not to sure whether I should put the menu location or whether I > should add a screenshot. Better to do 1. Menu method Select menu -> submenu -> application 2. Console method At the console, type {{{su -c yum install someapp}}} and press [Enter] 3. Screenshot (last resort) Keep on updating - just me know when you're finished your editing session so I don't accidentally clobber your updates. BR, John Babich Lead writer, DUG From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 07:50:02 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:50:02 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1198223402.7443.6.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Hey all, I just added Compiz-Fusion does someone want to proof read this I've got to go out for a little bit so feel free to modify and change it. I've changed some other sections changed the screenshot to F8 and generally checking things out. I'll work on it a bit later on as well but feel free to look at it. Regards, Marc http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 07:56:24 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 16:56:24 +0900 Subject: DUG = Gnome centric Message-ID: <1198223784.7443.11.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Hey All, Need a bit of feedback I know there was discussions about adding KDE/XFCE to the DUG did we get a definite response as to whether we were separating the KDE into a separate DUG or whether we were combining the whole lot? The reason I ask this is because there are a lot of gnome centric lines in there which doesn't bother me but it may affect a new user. My thoughts simply put are create separate guides with overlaps such as copying everything and making a Fedora kde guide. Would love feedback on this one because as I go through I'm trying to remember how KDE runs things. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 10:56:08 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:56:08 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> I have modified Managing Software with Pirut by adding the section about removing the dependency of the Fedora Media Repository. In my opinion it is a bug and I believe it has been posted in bugzilla but yeah I've added it to the howto just in case. Your feedback is appreciated regarding this. Regards, Marc http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Fri Dec 21 11:06:19 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 11:06:19 +0000 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1198235179.2704.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey, I just changed it *slightly*...Are you going to add a section about the repository manager? Best wishes, Jon On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 19:56 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I have modified Managing Software with Pirut by adding the section about > removing the dependency of the Fedora Media Repository. > > In my opinion it is a bug and I believe it has been posted in bugzilla > but yeah I've added it to the howto just in case. > > Your feedback is appreciated regarding this. > > Regards, > > > Marc > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut > From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 11:27:47 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:27:47 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1198235179.2704.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198235179.2704.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1198236467.29509.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 11:06 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey, > > I just changed it *slightly*...Are you going to add a section about the > repository manager? > > Best wishes, > > Jon Just added it to the beginning as a new section Regards, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 13:52:12 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:52:12 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1198245132.7443.24.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> I've added a bit of content which may or may not be correct for Configuring the Internet.[1] I would love a quick review on this for guidance relating to Network Manager and whether it's confusing. I've also contacted Bill Notting because the wireless section is going to take a bit of work and the feature page had him as the point of contact. I'll update it with information once I get some information as in what wireless drivers are supported etc. VPN wise I have no real clue how to do this so can someone add content for the VPN section. I've never used VPN personally and when I tried at university I had severe issues in getting connected so this is important for me to learn as well. Regards, Marc Wiriadisastra [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringInternet From tombo at adamantio.net Fri Dec 21 14:56:29 2007 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:56:29 +0100 Subject: DUG = Gnome centric In-Reply-To: <1198223784.7443.11.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <1198223784.7443.11.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <476BD41D.3080102@adamantio.net> Marc Wiriadisastra ha scritto: > Hey All, > > Need a bit of feedback I know there was discussions about adding > KDE/XFCE to the DUG did we get a definite response as to whether we were > separating the KDE into a separate DUG or whether we were combining the > whole lot? > > The reason I ask this is because there are a lot of gnome centric lines > in there which doesn't bother me but it may affect a new user. > > My thoughts simply put are create separate guides with overlaps such as > copying everything and making a Fedora kde guide. > > Would love feedback on this one because as I go through I'm trying to > remember how KDE runs things. > > Cheers, > > > Marc > > + 1 -- Francesco Tombolini Key fingerprint = EDA9 7504 AA93 CEFC 5990 1356 8584 6B05 F140 5F73 http://www.adamantio.net From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 14:05:04 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:05:04 -0600 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> John Babich wrote: > On Dec 21, 2007 5:00 AM, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> Karsten Wade wrote: >> > > < snipped Karsten's insightful and carefully crafted words > > > >> Now this click-through CLA is one that is not tied to the user correct? >> Just something they're prompted with when editing the page with an >> unverified account. I worry what an army of people who don't have >> enough stake in Fedora to fully sign the CLA will do for/to Fedora. But >> it is the open way :) I'd like to get rid of the CLA all together. >> >> > > I've seen the alternative and it ain't pretty. > > >> On a side note, there's going to be an FAS session during FUDCon, I'd >> encourage anyone that is interested to come on by. >> > > Thanks for the plug, Mike. I think fixing this at FUDCon is possible > and will reap real benefits. > > See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/SimplifyingOnboarding for > the latest refinement of the session. > > I was actually talking about the Fedora Account System 2 session :) That sounds very much like the lowering the barriers session from last year (which, really, we should have every FUDCon and I'm quite glad to see you doing it). Just in case things go for worst and I can't make it to yours and you can't make it to the FAS session. Take a look at this: https://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/fas/ Its currently still in test so feel free to make up a user, it will have no barring on your actual user and you can just come up with whatever you want. There is a CLA process in there that I think you'll find MUCH easier then the current method. There's also some bits for signing a clickthrough CLA though I'm not sure how far along those bits are. Let me know what you think. -Mike > Best Regards. > > John "freedom in a framework with mutual respect" Babich > > From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 14:25:48 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 23:25:48 +0900 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1198247148.7443.27.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> > > > > I was actually talking about the Fedora Account System 2 session :) > That sounds very much like the lowering the barriers session from last > year (which, really, we should have every FUDCon and I'm quite glad to > see you doing it). Just in case things go for worst and I can't make it > to yours and you can't make it to the FAS session. Take a look at this: > > https://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/fas/ > > Its currently still in test so feel free to make up a user, it will have > no barring on your actual user and you can just come up with whatever > you want. There is a CLA process in there that I think you'll find MUCH > easier then the current method. There's also some bits for signing a > clickthrough CLA though I'm not sure how far along those bits are. Let > me know what you think. > > -Mike I entered my phone number and generated this error. Error! The following error(s) have occured with your request: * telephoneNumber: Please enter a number, with area code, in the form ###-###-####, optionally with "ext.####" Not everyone will have the same number format e.g. 618 1234 5678 is my phone number including the country code being the 618. Cheers, Marc From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 14:34:57 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:34:57 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <1198193871.3593.125.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200238.00015.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769D664.1020609@fedoraproject.org> <200712201213.18287.gayleard@eircom.net> <9d2c731f0712200546h4148fd8bi17b70ad5ba1c1924@mail.gmail.com> <1198193871.3593.125.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1198247697.29350.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 15:37 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 16:46 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > In my opinion, two big blocking issues are > > 1. complications due to licensing > > Cannot be helped. The OPL is the only good license for Fedora content. > If the situation changes or a sufficient license arrives, we can use it. > > The complications of copyright law, US law, and other intellectual > property laws are not the fault of this project. We do with what we > can. :) Timothy mentioned that Miles was in favor of him bringing this document to us. That means if Miles dual-licenses the document, with the new license being the OPL with no restrictions, Timothy could bring it here and work on it. Timothy, if you want to bring that question to Miles, and he simply plops a bit of text into the document at his site stating that, that's probably sufficient. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 14:37:59 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 09:37:59 -0500 Subject: Self-introduction for Fedora documentation project In-Reply-To: <4cc838cc0712200647t6f445262ge4ac0a965a35aec5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cc838cc0712200647t6f445262ge4ac0a965a35aec5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1198247879.29350.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 17:47 +0300, Marcel Lambert wrote: > My name is Marcel Lambert. I became a practitioner of Linux due > to internet security reasons with the release of Red Hat 9 and since then I live with > it and maintain occasional notes at http://netston.tripod.com/Windows_Linux.htm. > When choosing OS I am a conservative (you can call me rational minority), and > I use both Linux and Windows and live with advantages and disadvantages > of both. Marcel, great to meet you. There are several guides being worked on right now that include security topics, including the Administration Guide. Bart Couvreur heads up the work on that particular document, so I'm sure he'll be glad to give you a shout and direct you to where he could use some help. If you have problems or questions, please let us know on the list and we'll be glad to help you out. You can also find us on IRC at FreeNode, on channel #fedora-docs. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 14:58:53 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:58:53 -0600 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <1198247148.7443.27.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> <1198247148.7443.27.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <476BD4AD.8000905@redhat.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>> >>> >> I was actually talking about the Fedora Account System 2 session :) >> That sounds very much like the lowering the barriers session from last >> year (which, really, we should have every FUDCon and I'm quite glad to >> see you doing it). Just in case things go for worst and I can't make it >> to yours and you can't make it to the FAS session. Take a look at this: >> >> https://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/fas/ >> >> Its currently still in test so feel free to make up a user, it will have >> no barring on your actual user and you can just come up with whatever >> you want. There is a CLA process in there that I think you'll find MUCH >> easier then the current method. There's also some bits for signing a >> clickthrough CLA though I'm not sure how far along those bits are. Let >> me know what you think. >> >> -Mike >> > > I entered my phone number and generated this error. > > No doubt, we'll want to get that fixed. In the future, the best place to put these bugs is the FAS2 hosted instance: https://fedorahosted.org/fas2 In the meantime, feel free to enter a false number :) -Mike From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 15:15:33 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:15:33 +0900 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476BD4AD.8000905@redhat.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> <1198247148.7443.27.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <476BD4AD.8000905@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1198250133.7443.33.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> > > > > No doubt, we'll want to get that fixed. In the future, the best place > to put these bugs is the FAS2 hosted instance: > > https://fedorahosted.org/fas2 > > In the meantime, feel free to enter a false number :) > > -Mike > Done. https://fedorahosted.org/fas2/ticket/19 Thanks, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 21 15:32:04 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:32:04 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1198251124.7443.36.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Hey all, The gdesklet guide is complete as best as I can. I went through adding the weather plugin in the guide so at least people can get one plugin functioning. You will find it at the bottom of the page. Now it's sleep time for me those people waking up have a great day. Feedback as always is welcome. Regards, Marc http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing From kwade at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 16:53:38 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 08:53:38 -0800 Subject: DUG = Gnome centric In-Reply-To: <1198223784.7443.11.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <1198223784.7443.11.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1198256018.3593.176.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 16:56 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey All, > > Need a bit of feedback I know there was discussions about adding > KDE/XFCE to the DUG did we get a definite response as to whether we were > separating the KDE into a separate DUG or whether we were combining the > whole lot? Did we reach a consensus? Not sure, to be honest. My opinion is to put it all in one guide. Use a regular structure that presents information in the same order: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DocTemplate > The reason I ask this is because there are a lot of gnome centric lines > in there which doesn't bother me but it may affect a new user. > > My thoughts simply put are create separate guides with overlaps such as > copying everything and making a Fedora kde guide. That is more work for not any more benefit (that I can see.) > Would love feedback on this one because as I go through I'm trying to > remember how KDE runs things. Also remember not to duplicate what is already in the GNOME and KDE User Guides. We can cover something with a sentence and a pointer (deep link) the appropriate upstream guide. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 17:34:57 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:34:57 +0300 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712210934o2d99b3b6gfc8b444b66230d97@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 5:05 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: > I was actually talking about the Fedora Account System 2 session :) > That sounds very much like the lowering the barriers session from last > year (which, really, we should have every FUDCon and I'm quite glad to > see you doing it). Just in case things go for worst and I can't make it > to yours and you can't make it to the FAS session. Take a look at this: > > https://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/fas/ I stand corrected. Should we combine the two sessions? There seems to be enough overlap to justify it. On the other hand, perhaps my proposed session should be broader in scope and address all ways to improve the contributor experience, AKA lowering the barriers. > Its currently still in test so feel free to make up a user, it will have > no barring on your actual user and you can just come up with whatever > you want. There is a CLA process in there that I think you'll find MUCH > easier then the current method. There's also some bits for signing a > clickthrough CLA though I'm not sure how far along those bits are. Let > me know what you think. > I'll check it out. Thanks, John "lower those barriers" Babich From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 17:57:09 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 20:57:09 +0300 Subject: DUG = Gnome centric In-Reply-To: <1198256018.3593.176.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1198223784.7443.11.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198256018.3593.176.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712210957g36c716e4j5b66820190210f5a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 7:53 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 16:56 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Hey All, > > > > Need a bit of feedback I know there was discussions about adding > > KDE/XFCE to the DUG did we get a definite response as to whether we were > > separating the KDE into a separate DUG or whether we were combining the > > whole lot? > > Did we reach a consensus? Not sure, to be honest. As leader writer, I proposed that we keep it together, with cross-links and a clear direction where to go regarding each desktop manager and what apps are shared in common, such as OpenOffice,org and Mozilla Firefox. See http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-December/msg00047.html. > > My opinion is to put it all in one guide. Use a regular structure that > presents information in the same order: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DocTemplate > That's my view. > > The reason I ask this is because there are a lot of gnome centric lines > > in there which doesn't bother me but it may affect a new user. > > > > My thoughts simply put are create separate guides with overlaps such as > > copying everything and making a Fedora kde guide. > > That is more work for not any more benefit (that I can see.) > Let's concentrate on the integrated DUG. Later on, if we want a tailor-made guide for a given LiveCD, for example, we can excerpt it from the main guide. > > Would love feedback on this one because as I go through I'm trying to > > remember how KDE runs things. > > Also remember not to duplicate what is already in the GNOME and KDE User > Guides. We can cover something with a sentence and a pointer (deep > link) the appropriate upstream guide. Agreed. The perfect example are the common apps. We might have something on how to launch them in the common section and point to that from each desktop manager section - just one approach. Best Regards, John Babich Lead writer, DUG From k5di at zianet.com Fri Dec 21 19:03:07 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:03:07 -0700 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712210934o2d99b3b6gfc8b444b66230d97@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712210934o2d99b3b6gfc8b444b66230d97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476C0DEB.6020801@zianet.com> John Babich wrote: > On Dec 21, 2007 5:05 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: > > >> I was actually talking about the Fedora Account System 2 session :) >> That sounds very much like the lowering the barriers session from last >> year (which, really, we should have every FUDCon and I'm quite glad to >> see you doing it). Just in case things go for worst and I can't make it >> to yours and you can't make it to the FAS session. Take a look at this: >> >> https://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/fas/ >> > > I stand corrected. Should we combine the two sessions? There seems to > be enough overlap to justify it. On the other hand, perhaps my > proposed session should be broader in scope and address all ways to > improve the contributor experience, AKA lowering the barriers. > > >> Its currently still in test so feel free to make up a user, it will have >> no barring on your actual user and you can just come up with whatever >> you want. There is a CLA process in there that I think you'll find MUCH >> easier then the current method. There's also some bits for signing a >> clickthrough CLA though I'm not sure how far along those bits are. Let >> me know what you think. >> >> > > I'll check it out. > > Thanks, > > John "lower those barriers" Babich > > Just a point about Lowering the Barriers. Right now if you follow the instructions on the web pages you will never join the Doc. There are ways to do it in other places and I tried one. Not sure yet if it worked :-) If this lower those barriers do not address the real problems I have presented, then they will not help. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 19:02:09 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:02:09 -0600 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476C0DEB.6020801@zianet.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712210934o2d99b3b6gfc8b444b66230d97@mail.gmail.com> <476C0DEB.6020801@zianet.com> Message-ID: <476C0DB1.1000106@redhat.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > John Babich wrote: >> On Dec 21, 2007 5:05 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: >> >> >>> I was actually talking about the Fedora Account System 2 session :) >>> That sounds very much like the lowering the barriers session from last >>> year (which, really, we should have every FUDCon and I'm quite glad to >>> see you doing it). Just in case things go for worst and I can't >>> make it >>> to yours and you can't make it to the FAS session. Take a look at >>> this: >>> >>> https://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/fas/ >>> >> >> I stand corrected. Should we combine the two sessions? There seems to >> be enough overlap to justify it. On the other hand, perhaps my >> proposed session should be broader in scope and address all ways to >> improve the contributor experience, AKA lowering the barriers. >> >> >>> Its currently still in test so feel free to make up a user, it will >>> have >>> no barring on your actual user and you can just come up with whatever >>> you want. There is a CLA process in there that I think you'll find >>> MUCH >>> easier then the current method. There's also some bits for signing a >>> clickthrough CLA though I'm not sure how far along those bits are. Let >>> me know what you think. >>> >>> >> >> I'll check it out. >> >> Thanks, >> >> John "lower those barriers" Babich >> >> > Just a point about Lowering the Barriers. Right now if you follow > the instructions on the web pages you will never join the Doc. There > are ways to do it in other places and I tried one. Not sure yet if it > worked :-) Karl listen, I've been nice by not saying anything but now I'm going to. Over 1500 people have completed the very process that you're complaining about. Even in the time you've tried to apply people have succeeded. Its not an easy process but it does take a level of competence and independance to complete (we're working on making it better, really) I'm not making fun, but your jabs and quips aren't helping anyone. The docs mailing list is not the place for technical support for signing the CLA and the fedora-list is not a blog. -Mike From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Dec 21 19:04:03 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:04:03 -0600 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712210934o2d99b3b6gfc8b444b66230d97@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712210934o2d99b3b6gfc8b444b66230d97@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476C0E23.7040603@redhat.com> John Babich wrote: > On Dec 21, 2007 5:05 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: > > >> I was actually talking about the Fedora Account System 2 session :) >> That sounds very much like the lowering the barriers session from last >> year (which, really, we should have every FUDCon and I'm quite glad to >> see you doing it). Just in case things go for worst and I can't make it >> to yours and you can't make it to the FAS session. Take a look at this: >> >> https://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/fas/ >> > > I stand corrected. Should we combine the two sessions? There seems to > be enough overlap to justify it. On the other hand, perhaps my > proposed session should be broader in scope and address all ways to > improve the contributor experience, AKA lowering the barriers. > I thought about that as well. The thing about FAS is we were going to discuss some developer specific things (the api, etc) as well as possible integration in the future with things like having LDAP on the back end and OpenID on the front. Perhaps you and I can talk a bit before we all go up on stage and announce our topics and see if maybe we should combine our sessions and then take FAS to a hackfest or something. -Mike From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 19:33:02 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:33:02 +0300 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476C0E23.7040603@redhat.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712210934o2d99b3b6gfc8b444b66230d97@mail.gmail.com> <476C0E23.7040603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712211133t5aa2354q1736601329c81da3@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 10:04 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: > John Babich wrote: > I thought about that as well. The thing about FAS is we were going to > discuss some developer specific things (the api, etc) as well as > possible integration in the future with things like having LDAP on the > back end and OpenID on the front. Perhaps you and I can talk a bit > before we all go up on stage and announce our topics and see if maybe we > should combine our sessions and then take FAS to a hackfest or something. > Sounds like a plan. BR, John Babich From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 21 19:39:26 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 22:39:26 +0300 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476C0DEB.6020801@zianet.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712210934o2d99b3b6gfc8b444b66230d97@mail.gmail.com> <476C0DEB.6020801@zianet.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712211139n266e6542g4e9ec09923c5b157@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 21, 2007 10:03 PM, Karl Larsen wrote: > John Babich wrote: > Just a point about Lowering the Barriers. Right now if you follow > the instructions on the web pages you will never join the Doc. There are > ways to do it in other places and I tried one. Not sure yet if it worked > :-) > I beg to differ with you there, but I think there is definitely room for improvement. > If this lower those barriers do not address the real problems I have > presented, then they will not help. > That's the challenge, Karl. I feel your frustration and will do my best to address the stumbling blocks. All I ask is that you to hang in there while we sort it out. BR, John Babich From k5di at zianet.com Fri Dec 21 19:41:42 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 12:41:42 -0700 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476C0DB1.1000106@redhat.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476B1E36.6040202@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712202221q20422f3dhc18c57c4a1884e04@mail.gmail.com> <476BC810.9020002@redhat.com> <9d2c731f0712210934o2d99b3b6gfc8b444b66230d97@mail.gmail.com> <476C0DEB.6020801@zianet.com> <476C0DB1.1000106@redhat.com> Message-ID: <476C16F6.6050405@zianet.com> Mike McGrath wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: >> John Babich wrote: >>> On Dec 21, 2007 5:05 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: >>> >>> >>>> I was actually talking about the Fedora Account System 2 session :) >>>> That sounds very much like the lowering the barriers session from last >>>> year (which, really, we should have every FUDCon and I'm quite glad to >>>> see you doing it). Just in case things go for worst and I can't >>>> make it >>>> to yours and you can't make it to the FAS session. Take a look at >>>> this: >>>> >>>> https://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/fas/ >>>> >>> >>> I stand corrected. Should we combine the two sessions? There seems to >>> be enough overlap to justify it. On the other hand, perhaps my >>> proposed session should be broader in scope and address all ways to >>> improve the contributor experience, AKA lowering the barriers. >>> >>> >>>> Its currently still in test so feel free to make up a user, it will >>>> have >>>> no barring on your actual user and you can just come up with whatever >>>> you want. There is a CLA process in there that I think you'll find >>>> MUCH >>>> easier then the current method. There's also some bits for signing a >>>> clickthrough CLA though I'm not sure how far along those bits are. >>>> Let >>>> me know what you think. >>>> >>>> >>> >>> I'll check it out. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> John "lower those barriers" Babich >>> >>> >> Just a point about Lowering the Barriers. Right now if you follow >> the instructions on the web pages you will never join the Doc. There >> are ways to do it in other places and I tried one. Not sure yet if it >> worked :-) > > Karl listen, I've been nice by not saying anything but now I'm going > to. Over 1500 people have completed the very process that you're > complaining about. Thank you Mike! I have asked if anyone else has succeeded in joining and never got an answer. If 1500 people have done so then there is a problem with my Linux F8 or my way of doing it. > Even in the time you've tried to apply people have succeeded. Its > not an easy process but it does take a level of competence and > independance to complete (we're working on making it better, really) > I'm not making fun, but your jabs and quips aren't helping anyone. My jabs were because it seemed like nothing worked. Now I know I am too stupid to succeed. > The docs mailing list is not the place for technical support for > signing the CLA and the fedora-list is not a blog. > > -Mike > Actually signing the CLA is duck soup. You print the file they send you and mail it to the address given. Could not be more simple. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From dan at new2linux.com Fri Dec 21 19:59:56 2007 From: dan at new2linux.com (dan at new2linux.com) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:59:56 +0000 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA Message-ID: <831631655-1198267198-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1650434168-@bxe015.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Actually signing the CLA is duck soup. You print the file they send you and mail it to the address given. Could not be more simple. Karl Karl, Did you send your cla via postal mail? If so then that's porbably why you cannot edit the wiki. In order to get wiki edit privileges the have to have your signed cla on file, if the haven't received it yet, or processed it, they cannot give you edit rights on the wiki. Regards, Dan O'Brien From k5di at zianet.com Fri Dec 21 20:54:08 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 13:54:08 -0700 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <831631655-1198267198-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1650434168-@bxe015.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <831631655-1198267198-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1650434168-@bxe015.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <476C27F0.1010901@zianet.com> dan at new2linux.com wrote: > Actually signing the CLA is duck soup. You print the file they send you > and mail it to the address given. Could not be more simple. > > Karl > > Karl, > > Did you send your cla via postal mail? If so then that's porbably why you cannot edit the wiki. In order to get wiki edit privileges the have to have your signed cla on file, if the haven't received it yet, or processed it, they cannot give you edit rights on the wiki. > > Regards, > Dan O'Brien > > Hi Dan, I did it 2 ways. Mail and also I made a pdf of the form they sent and I emailed that to legal at redhat.com yesterday. I had hoped to hear if it was right or wrong. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From gayleard at eircom.net Fri Dec 21 21:45:25 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 21:45:25 +0000 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476C0DB1.1000106@redhat.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476C0DEB.6020801@zianet.com> <476C0DB1.1000106@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200712212145.25436.gayleard@eircom.net> On Friday 21 December 2007 07:02:09 pm Mike McGrath wrote: > Karl listen, I've been nice by not saying anything but now I'm going > to. Over 1500 people have completed the very process that you're > complaining about. Even in the time you've tried to apply people have > succeeded. Its not an easy process but it does take a level of > competence and independance to complete (we're working on making it > better, really) I'm not making fun, but your jabs and quips aren't > helping anyone. The docs mailing list is not the place for technical > support for signing the CLA and the fedora-list is not a blog. Since you have put the boot in ... I take it the aim of the Fedora Documentation Project is to produce documentation that makes it easier to use Fedora. If the documentors cannot produce documentation that makes it easy to use their own system, can we have confidence that they will do better with Fedora? From vnk at mkc.co.nz Fri Dec 21 22:21:17 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:21:17 +1300 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <200712212145.25436.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476C0DEB.6020801@zianet.com> <476C0DB1.1000106@redhat.com> <200712212145.25436.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <476C3C5D.2040409@mkc.co.nz> Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Friday 21 December 2007 07:02:09 pm Mike McGrath wrote: > >> Karl listen, I've been nice by not saying anything but now I'm going >> to. Over 1500 people have completed the very process that you're >> complaining about. Even in the time you've tried to apply people have >> succeeded. Its not an easy process but it does take a level of >> competence and independance to complete (we're working on making it >> better, really) I'm not making fun, but your jabs and quips aren't >> helping anyone. The docs mailing list is not the place for technical >> support for signing the CLA and the fedora-list is not a blog. > > Since you have put the boot in ... > I take it the aim of the Fedora Documentation Project > is to produce documentation that makes it easier to use Fedora. Indeed. > If the documentors cannot produce documentation > that makes it easy to use their own system, How so? As Mike pointed out already, there are over 1500 people who managed to accomplish this, following the procedure from those pages. Regardless of the fact that the accounts system needs revision due to its complexity, procedure seems to be clear for a large number of people. > can we have confidence that they will do better with Fedora? > I don't know. Can you? > > This is becoming a bit silly. Can we finally wrap-up? Vladimir -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From dan at new2linux.com Fri Dec 21 22:14:37 2007 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 17:14:37 -0500 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476C3C5D.2040409@mkc.co.nz> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476C0DEB.6020801@zianet.com> <476C0DB1.1000106@redhat.com> <200712212145.25436.gayleard@eircom.net> <476C3C5D.2040409@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <476C3ACD.7060603@new2linux.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Timothy Murphy wrote: > >> On Friday 21 December 2007 07:02:09 pm Mike McGrath wrote: >> >> >>> Karl listen, I've been nice by not saying anything but now I'm going >>> to. Over 1500 people have completed the very process that you're >>> complaining about. Even in the time you've tried to apply people have >>> succeeded. Its not an easy process but it does take a level of >>> competence and independance to complete (we're working on making it >>> better, really) I'm not making fun, but your jabs and quips aren't >>> helping anyone. The docs mailing list is not the place for technical >>> support for signing the CLA and the fedora-list is not a blog. >>> >> Since you have put the boot in ... >> I take it the aim of the Fedora Documentation Project >> is to produce documentation that makes it easier to use Fedora. >> > > Indeed. > > >> If the documentors cannot produce documentation >> that makes it easy to use their own system, >> > > How so? As Mike pointed out already, there are over 1500 people who > managed to accomplish this, following the procedure from those pages. > Regardless of the fact that the accounts system needs revision due to > its complexity, procedure seems to be clear for a large number of people. > > >> can we have confidence that they will do better with Fedora? >> >> > I don't know. Can you? > > >> > This is becoming a bit silly. Can we finally wrap-up? > > Vladimir > > +1 Regards, Dan O'Brien From k5di at zianet.com Fri Dec 21 22:35:23 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 15:35:23 -0700 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476C3C5D.2040409@mkc.co.nz> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476C0DEB.6020801@zianet.com> <476C0DB1.1000106@redhat.com> <200712212145.25436.gayleard@eircom.net> <476C3C5D.2040409@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <476C3FAB.8090301@zianet.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Timothy Murphy wrote: > >> On Friday 21 December 2007 07:02:09 pm Mike McGrath wrote: >> >> >>> Karl listen, I've been nice by not saying anything but now I'm going >>> to. Over 1500 people have completed the very process that you're >>> complaining about. Even in the time you've tried to apply people have >>> succeeded. This being fact, and my computer with me working it has failed, I would like to go off line with someone who was able to complete the CLA part sending a file made on their computer back to Fedora. I will be out of town for about a week. If you have time to help please write me direct. Karl >>> Its not an easy process but it does take a Snip -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From miles at brennan.id.au Fri Dec 21 23:46:34 2007 From: miles at brennan.id.au (Miles Brennan) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 09:46:34 +1000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <1198247697.29350.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200238.00015.gayleard@eircom.net> <4769D664.1020609@fedoraproject.org> <200712201213.18287.gayleard@eircom.net> <9d2c731f0712200546h4148fd8bi17b70ad5ba1c1924@mail.gmail.com> <1198193871.3593.125.camel@erato.phig.org> <1198247697.29350.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <476C505A.5010306@brennan.id.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 15:37 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: >> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 16:46 +0300, John Babich wrote: >>> In my opinion, two big blocking issues are >>> 1. complications due to licensing >> Cannot be helped. The OPL is the only good license for Fedora content. >> If the situation changes or a sufficient license arrives, we can use it. >> >> The complications of copyright law, US law, and other intellectual >> property laws are not the fault of this project. We do with what we >> can. :) > > Timothy mentioned that Miles was in favor of him bringing this document > to us. That means if Miles dual-licenses the document, with the new > license being the OPL with no restrictions, Timothy could bring it here > and work on it. Timothy, if you want to bring that question to Miles, > and he simply plops a bit of text into the document at his site stating > that, that's probably sufficient. > Paul, I attempted to bring the HOWTO into the FDP in Jun/Jul 2006. http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-June/msg00149.html http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-July/msg00006.html Tim was willing then to bring the document to FDP and work on it. At the time I was happy to change the licensing to meet the objective. However I did find there seemed to be more emphasis on the format, style and inclusion into the wiki, than the content of the HOWTO. Although the document was written to suit Fedora Core, I tried to maintain generic configuration and commands where possible so other distros could also benefit from it. Also stayed away from the GUIs. Converting the plain HTML version of the document to wiki format was much more painful than first anticipated. I wanted to keep the feel of the original HOWTO styled document, as I believe they are much easier to read and follow than the current wiki construct. However the wiki code does not easily support the formatting of tables, cells, preformatted text and other basis formatting. Working in RAW wiki code was very time consuming. Here is the draft of the HOWTO I worked on: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/ServerInstallationGuide I installed moinmoin on my own server to work on the formatting issues a little easier and found I needed to make some significant changes to the CSS for the document to look and feel the way I wanted it to. It was also mentioned at the time that FDP would be moving to a Plone and Zope based system, making these type of migrations easier. Although I had no experience with these two applications, I was happy to try something new. I eventually gave up on transferring the documentation because the new system has not been implemented and I found the wiki frustrating. If FDP is still willing to accept the documentation, I am happy to change the licensing and Tim is prepared to start some work on it. Perhaps we start a new thread on updating the HOWTO and moving it into the FDP. Open to suggestions. Regards, Miles Brennan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHbFBacSPa0xQu/fARAk02AJ4nd6ftY5wMig3Dwzajg1qxYEy3gQCgjPPJ dzSj6SVetX9Z3lY25UtzwF0= =Byre -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gayleard at eircom.net Sat Dec 22 02:03:02 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 02:03:02 +0000 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <476C3ACD.7060603@new2linux.com> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476C3C5D.2040409@mkc.co.nz> <476C3ACD.7060603@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <200712220203.03071.gayleard@eircom.net> On Friday 21 December 2007 10:14:37 pm Dan O'Brien wrote: > > This is becoming a bit silly. Can we finally wrap-up? > > > > Vladimir > > +1 > > Regards, > Dan O'Brien I always find it strange when people write to a thread asking why people don't stop writing to the thread ... From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 22 02:23:04 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:23:04 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1198290184.7443.84.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Just added some content to the media page as listed below and some icons would love some feedback. I added a fair few icons but then if its to much just tell me and I will remove them. Regards, Marc http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Media From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 22 02:35:28 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Fri, 21 Dec 2007 19:35:28 -0700 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1198290184.7443.84.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198290184.7443.84.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <476C77F0.2010306@zianet.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Just added some content to the media page as listed below and some icons > would love some feedback. > > I added a fair few icons but then if its to much just tell me and I will > remove them. > > Regards, > > > Marc > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Media > > Hi Marc, I see what your doing but to find the Gnome cd-dvd burner you click on Places and the CD/DVD Creator. I use this all the time and it is my best way. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 22 02:45:04 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:45:04 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <476C77F0.2010306@zianet.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198290184.7443.84.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <476C77F0.2010306@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1198291504.7443.87.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 19:35 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Just added some content to the media page as listed below and some icons > > would love some feedback. > > > > I added a fair few icons but then if its to much just tell me and I will > > remove them. > > > > Regards, > > > > > > Marc > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Media > > > > > Hi Marc, I see what your doing but to find the Gnome cd-dvd burner you > click on Places and the CD/DVD Creator. I use this all the time and it > is my best way. > > Karl > > > Hi Karl, That is one of the options there I believe. While I agree that is an option personally I find k3b to be significantly better and that is just my opinion. I've tried to add the K3b for KDE users as well since we need to make sure that everyone is happy. If you find any errors/omissions please point them out so I can fix them. Thanks for reading btw :) Cheers, Marc From gayleard at eircom.net Sat Dec 22 02:53:37 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 02:53:37 +0000 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO Message-ID: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> Miles Brennan said: -------------------------------------------------------------- Although the document was written to suit Fedora Core, I tried to maintain generic configuration and commands where possible so other distros could also benefit from it. Also stayed away from the GUIs. Converting the plain HTML version of the document to wiki format was much more painful than first anticipated. I wanted to keep the feel of the original HOWTO styled document, as I believe they are much easier to read and follow than the current wiki construct. However the wiki code does not easily support the formatting of tables, cells, preformatted text and other basis formatting. Working in RAW wiki code was very time consuming. Here is the draft of the HOWTO I worked on: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/ServerInstallationGuide I installed moinmoin on my own server to work on the formatting issues a little easier and found I needed to make some significant changes to the CSS for the document to look and feel the way I wanted it to. It was also mentioned at the time that FDP would be moving to a Plone and Zope based system, making these type of migrations easier. Although I had no experience with these two applications, I was happy to try something new. I eventually gave up on transferring the documentation because the new system has not been implemented and I found the wiki frustrating. If FDP is still willing to accept the documentation, I am happy to change the licensing and Tim is prepared to start some work on it. Perhaps we start a new thread on updating the HOWTO and moving it into the FDP. Open to suggestions. -------------------------------------------------------------- I'm not quite sure if I am the Tim referred to here, but if I am then I would be happy to try my hand at bringing the HOWTO into the Fedora Documentation Project. On the content side, there are a couple of points that I wondered about: 1. You talk a little about PPPoE in chapter 5. Is this still necessary? I had the impression that all *DSL modems now do this for you, and basically give an Ethernet connection to the Internet? 2. Does one have to understand IPtables any more (chapter 6)? I use shorewall, which seems to me to make this bit of life much easier. Am I right in thinking shorewall is more or less the default Fedora firewall nowadays? 3. Do people still use FTP (chapter 14)? 4. I wonder if a chapter on SVN might be worth while? But these are probably better discussed off the list, if indeed I am given the task of trying to bring your HOWTO (and it would remain your HOWTO) into the FDP? Tim From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 22 03:13:44 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 12:13:44 +0900 Subject: DUG - Additional Topics Message-ID: <1198293224.7443.90.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Hey All, Before we start working towards the final stages of the DUG (I hope) is there any further requests for additional topics? Cheers, Marc http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide From miles at brennan.id.au Sat Dec 22 05:21:14 2007 From: miles at brennan.id.au (Miles Brennan) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 15:21:14 +1000 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <476C9ECA.1030301@brennan.id.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Timothy Murphy wrote: > > I'm not quite sure if I am the Tim referred to here, > but if I am then I would be happy to try my hand at bringing the HOWTO > into the Fedora Documentation Project. http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-July/msg00000.html My apologies, you commented in favour of bringing it into FDP, not actually doing the work. > On the content side, there are a couple of points that I wondered about: > > 1. You talk a little about PPPoE in chapter 5. > Is this still necessary? > I had the impression that all *DSL modems now do this for you, > and basically give an Ethernet connection to the Internet? Most modem/routers can connect to your ISP in "bridged" or "routed" modes. In routed mode your modem connects to the ISP and handles the PPPoE connection and firewall filtering, in bridged mode your modem makes a simple connection to the ISP's equipment and the PPPoE connection and firewalling is done by your Linux server (passing through your modem). Your setup choice will normally be determined by your network topology and what you feel comfortable with. http://www.brennan.id.au/05-Broadband_Connectivity.html#ethernet > > 2. Does one have to understand IPtables any more (chapter 6)? > I use shorewall, which seems to me to make this bit of life much easier. > Am I right in thinking shorewall is more or less the default Fedora firewall > nowadays? Shorewall is a graphical tool for configuring iptables (Netfilter) and is similar to Firestarter. Chapter 6 is constructed to "walk" a new user through the complexities of iptables and Linux firewalls, so they have an understanding of what happens at the "packet" level. Shorewall is a higher level GUI that configures iptables with mouse clicks. > 3. Do people still use FTP (chapter 14)? Surprisingly, this is the chapter that has the highest access. > 4. I wonder if a chapter on SVN might be worth while? If Subversion is available as a Fedora package then theres no reason why not (I'm unfamiliar myself), is SVN something a home network user would use? The normal trend for FDP docs addition is if the application is available as a Fedora package, otherwise sources that have to be unzipped and compiled into a Fedora installation are far more complex (FDP can't cater for all the different possibilities). If its "yum-able" then yep, if its not theres much more work. > But these are probably better discussed off the list, > if indeed I am given the task of trying to bring your HOWTO > (and it would remain your HOWTO) into the FDP? > > Tim > Regards, Miles Brennan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHbJ7KcSPa0xQu/fARAr1gAJ9AskY/CbVomIYgXgqB4b2oqBcYuwCgiXW8 OjebEb+n4Q9vSQAT7sounYQ= =udYy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From gayleard at eircom.net Sat Dec 22 11:57:22 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:57:22 +0000 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <476C9ECA.1030301@brennan.id.au> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> <476C9ECA.1030301@brennan.id.au> Message-ID: <200712221157.23116.gayleard@eircom.net> On Saturday 22 December 2007 05:21:14 am Miles Brennan wrote: > > 2. Does one have to understand IPtables any more (chapter 6)? > > I use shorewall, which seems to me to make this bit of life much easier. > > Am I right in thinking shorewall is more or less the default Fedora > > firewall nowadays? > > Shorewall is a graphical tool for configuring iptables (Netfilter) and > is similar to Firestarter. Chapter 6 is constructed to "walk" a new user > through the complexities of iptables and Linux firewalls, so they have > an understanding of what happens at the "packet" level. Shorewall is a > higher level GUI that configures iptables with mouse clicks. I take your other points. But shorewall, at least as I use it, is not graphical at all. It provides 2 or 3 recipes - I use "two-interfaces" - and then it is easy to open any further ports with something like SSH/ACCEPT loc $FW HTTP/ACCEPT loc $FW in the "rules" file. (These use macro.SSH, macro,HTTP in /usr/share/shorewall . There are 20-30 macros for all conceivable services.) From adamcooper at rogers.com Sat Dec 22 16:46:07 2007 From: adamcooper at rogers.com (Adam Cooper) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 08:46:07 -0800 (PST) Subject: Adam Cooper - Self Introduction Message-ID: <543137.55376.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Adam G.F. Cooper Orillia, Ontario, Canada Landscape Labourer Michaelis Landscape I would be interested in helping with documentation for new users to fedora. Especially people migrating from Microsoft platforms. I have been involved with writing manuals for other charitable organizations. I documented a policy/manual for safe interaction with children. I have been working with computers for over 16 years now, unfortunately most of my skill currently is in Microsoft Platforms, as I have only enough skill currently to use Fedora and its applications I would not consider myself a "Power" user with Fedora, yet. I have my MCP and an older A+ Certification. I am able to type and I am able to use most word processing programs, and have been using the OpenOffice.org suite exclusively for 5 years now. I do have some programming skills but mostly with the BASIC language. I'm currently actively trying to learn HTML, PHP, and JavaScript. I would be a good candidate for this project because I believe in the Open Source concept, and would like to be able to contribute to it's projects and to help out where I can. GPG KEY: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/0A249BB4 2007-12-22 [expires: 2008-12-21] Key fingerprint = 4158 B090 CAFB 8C4B 6471 36A0 80A6 9B45 0A24 9BB4 uid Adam Cooper (Documentation Project) sub 2048g/327C2834 2007-12-22 [expires: 2008-12-21] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jaredsmith at jaredsmith.net Sat Dec 22 18:06:51 2007 From: jaredsmith at jaredsmith.net (Jared Smith) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:06:51 -0500 Subject: fixing what we can In-Reply-To: <1198192163.3593.108.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1198192163.3593.108.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1198346811.6005.7.camel@hockey.jaredsmith.net> On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 15:09 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > We can do best by improving what we have in our purview. What have we > discovered in the recent threads that we can directly fix from Fedora > Docs or our positions elsewhere in Fedora? So in the interests of making this process easier for new contributors, I cornered Paul at our local LUG meeting this morning and we looked at the GPG key instructions with fresh eyes. We've gone through the instructions at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys and organized it, cleaned it up, and added a bunch of additional documentation in places where it was sorely lacking. If there are people out there that are struggling with the process of setting up their GPG key pair, I'd encourage them to take a look at the shiny new changes. -Jared From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 22 18:29:09 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 11:29:09 -0700 Subject: fixing what we can In-Reply-To: <1198346811.6005.7.camel@hockey.jaredsmith.net> References: <1198192163.3593.108.camel@erato.phig.org> <1198346811.6005.7.camel@hockey.jaredsmith.net> Message-ID: <476D5775.8070406@zianet.com> Jared Smith wrote: > On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 15:09 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > >> We can do best by improving what we have in our purview. What have we >> discovered in the recent threads that we can directly fix from Fedora >> Docs or our positions elsewhere in Fedora? >> > > So in the interests of making this process easier for new contributors, > I cornered Paul at our local LUG meeting this morning and we looked at > the GPG key instructions with fresh eyes. We've gone through the > instructions at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys and > organized it, cleaned it up, and added a bunch of additional > documentation in places where it was sorely lacking. > > If there are people out there that are struggling with the process of > setting up their GPG key pair, I'd encourage them to take a look at the > shiny new changes. > > -Jared > > I looked and it is the same stuff but much better organization. I have been reading Help Seahorse and they talk about sub-keys as being the way to do things. But the help is not real clear there. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 18:56:01 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 13:56:01 -0500 Subject: fixing what we can In-Reply-To: <476D5775.8070406@zianet.com> References: <1198192163.3593.108.camel@erato.phig.org> <1198346811.6005.7.camel@hockey.jaredsmith.net> <476D5775.8070406@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1198349761.5339.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-22 at 11:29 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > Jared Smith wrote: > > So in the interests of making this process easier for new contributors, > > I cornered Paul at our local LUG meeting this morning and we looked at > > the GPG key instructions with fresh eyes. We've gone through the > > instructions at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys and > > organized it, cleaned it up, and added a bunch of additional > > documentation in places where it was sorely lacking. > > > > If there are people out there that are struggling with the process of > > setting up their GPG key pair, I'd encourage them to take a look at the > > shiny new changes. > > > > -Jared > > > > > I looked and it is the same stuff but much better organization. I > have been reading Help Seahorse and they talk about sub-keys as being > the way to do things. But the help is not real clear there. We are still working on it; please be patient, and remember that we are all volunteers doing this in our spare time. :-) Jared and I are testing this as we go to make sure the instructions get as clear as possible. I noticed a lot of the material and organization has "drifted" since I first wrote this page, making the steps very cluttered. Jared and I are making a concerted effort to make the workflow clickable using anchors and clear procedural links. Once we're finished, I think this would be worthwhile for us to consider when revising other procedural guides. We are organizing this in much the way John Babich and others are talking about organizing the DUG, where each section branches for GNOME, KDE, and CLI. A link at the bottom of each section directs the user within the same branch, or for single-branch sections, includes a link for each following branch, like this: (This is ASCII art, so you will need to be using a fixed-width font to view it correctly. -- GNOME Step 1 -- -- GNOME Step 3 Intro --+-- KDE Step 1 --+-- Unified Step 2 --+-- KDE Step 3 ... -- CLI Step 1 -- -- CLI Step 3 There should be at the end of Intro links to all three Step 1 branches. Each Step 1 branch has a link to Step 2. Step 2 has links to all Step 3 branches, and so forth. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 19:51:48 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:51:48 -0500 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 19:56 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I have modified Managing Software with Pirut by adding the section about > removing the dependency of the Fedora Media Repository. > > In my opinion it is a bug and I believe it has been posted in bugzilla > but yeah I've added it to the howto just in case. > > Your feedback is appreciated regarding this. Putting this in the manual means that there is now an onus to make sure it's removed when we move to F9, assuming that particular bug is fixed. Do you take the responsibility to do that? :-) My point is that bug listings have their place, and manuals are probably not that place. Technical documentation generally includes release notes for that purpose. We have a bugs page that tracks these: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common I wouldn't link everywhere you find a bug, either, because again, this multiplies the effort required to re-edit the guide for each release. Having a link to bug lists or errata in a general information page at the front of the Guide is enough. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in Sat Dec 22 20:02:42 2007 From: sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in (Sudheer Satyanarayana) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 01:32:42 +0530 Subject: Feedback on my first post Message-ID: <476D6D62.4020102@binaryvibes.co.in> Hello, I posted draft content to Apache Web Server under the "How to configure multiple domains on same host" section. This is the first time I added content to the Wiki. I would like to hear your feedback on the same. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/WebServer -- Thanks and regards, Sudheer Satyanarayana http://binaryvibes.co.in From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 22 21:20:30 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:20:30 -0700 Subject: Feedback on my first post In-Reply-To: <476D6D62.4020102@binaryvibes.co.in> References: <476D6D62.4020102@binaryvibes.co.in> Message-ID: <476D7F9E.6050005@zianet.com> Sudheer Satyanarayana wrote: > Hello, > > I posted draft content to Apache Web Server under the "How to > configure multiple domains on same host" section. This is the first > time I added content to the Wiki. I would like to hear your feedback > on the same. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/WebServer > > I liked what you have but suggest a few changes. Rather than the su-c command replace that with the words " using a root terminal do these things". Most people know how to do that with su - . I was confused by your referance listing. I thought it should be better defined. I subscribed to your page and will watch it grow. It is much needed. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 21:30:29 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:30:29 -0500 Subject: Feedback on my first post In-Reply-To: <476D7F9E.6050005@zianet.com> References: <476D6D62.4020102@binaryvibes.co.in> <476D7F9E.6050005@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1198359029.5339.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-22 at 14:20 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > Sudheer Satyanarayana wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I posted draft content to Apache Web Server under the "How to > > configure multiple domains on same host" section. This is the first > > time I added content to the Wiki. I would like to hear your feedback > > on the same. > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/WebServer > > > > > I liked what you have but suggest a few changes. Rather than the > su-c command replace that with the words " using a root terminal do > these things". Most people know how to do that with su - . I was > confused by your referance listing. I thought it should be better defined. > > I subscribed to your page and will watch it grow. It is much needed. Actually, 'su -c' is the recommended usage for our guides. That usage works at any terminal and thus one need not insert additional references to how to get a root shell. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Dec 22 21:44:29 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 00:44:29 +0300 Subject: Adam Cooper - Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <543137.55376.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <543137.55376.qm@web88002.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712221344k52368dfbq64e4fd18ee85aafa@mail.gmail.com> Adam, welcome to the Fedora Docs Project. I am the lead writer for the Fedora 8 Desktop User Guide (DUG). There are some active volunteers working on the DUG now, but we can always use another set of eyes and fingers. I assume that you are using Fedora on a daily basis as your regular desktop. This experience is invaluable in fact-checking the current material and, if you are comfortable with it, making edits to the DUG. The target audience is the new Fedora user, who may be familiar with Windows, but not with GNOME, KDE or Xfce. I can can give more details if you decide to dive into the DUG. If not, there are other draft docs which can use some help. Best Regards, John Babich Lead writer, DUG From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 22 21:46:31 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 14:46:31 -0700 Subject: Feedback on my first post In-Reply-To: <1198359029.5339.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476D6D62.4020102@binaryvibes.co.in> <476D7F9E.6050005@zianet.com> <1198359029.5339.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <476D85B7.4060808@zianet.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-22 at 14:20 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Sudheer Satyanarayana wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I posted draft content to Apache Web Server under the "How to >>> configure multiple domains on same host" section. This is the first >>> time I added content to the Wiki. I would like to hear your feedback >>> on the same. >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/WebServer >>> >>> >>> >> I liked what you have but suggest a few changes. Rather than the >> su-c command replace that with the words " using a root terminal do >> these things". Most people know how to do that with su - . I was >> confused by your referance listing. I thought it should be better defined. >> >> I subscribed to your page and will watch it grow. It is much needed. >> > > Actually, 'su -c' is the recommended usage for our guides. That usage > works at any terminal and thus one need not insert additional references > to how to get a root shell. > > Well that is new for Fedora docs. I have lots of Red Hat docs from way back and they all use the "in a root terminal" as standard. I agree su -c is a working way but it is also a pain-in-the-ass if you have a good root password :-) Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Dec 22 22:36:54 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 07:36:54 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> On Sat, 2007-12-22 at 14:51 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-21 at 19:56 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > I have modified Managing Software with Pirut by adding the section about > > removing the dependency of the Fedora Media Repository. > > > > In my opinion it is a bug and I believe it has been posted in bugzilla > > but yeah I've added it to the howto just in case. > > > > Your feedback is appreciated regarding this. > > Putting this in the manual means that there is now an onus to make sure > it's removed when we move to F9, assuming that particular bug is fixed. > Do you take the responsibility to do that? :-) > > My point is that bug listings have their place, and manuals are probably > not that place. Technical documentation generally includes release > notes for that purpose. We have a bugs page that tracks these: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common > > I wouldn't link everywhere you find a bug, either, because again, this > multiplies the effort required to re-edit the guide for each release. > Having a link to bug lists or errata in a general information page at > the front of the Guide is enough. I'd be more than happy to delete it if the change does occur in F9, I haven't had a look at any further changes so I can't be sure. Cheers, Marc From sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in Sat Dec 22 21:43:12 2007 From: sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in (Sudheer Satyanarayana) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 03:13:12 +0530 Subject: Feedback on my first post In-Reply-To: <1198359029.5339.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476D6D62.4020102@binaryvibes.co.in> <476D7F9E.6050005@zianet.com> <1198359029.5339.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <476D84F0.40108@binaryvibes.co.in> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-12-22 at 14:20 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Sudheer Satyanarayana wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I posted draft content to Apache Web Server under the "How to >>> configure multiple domains on same host" section. This is the first >>> time I added content to the Wiki. I would like to hear your feedback >>> on the same. >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/WebServer >>> >>> >>> >> I liked what you have but suggest a few changes. Rather than the >> su-c command replace that with the words " using a root terminal do >> these things". Most people know how to do that with su - . I was >> confused by your referance listing. I thought it should be better defined. >> >> I subscribed to your page and will watch it grow. It is much needed. >> Thanks for your valuable feedback, Karl. I intend to edit the document to improve its quality. I wanted to know what part of it needs most attention at the moment. > > Actually, 'su -c' is the recommended usage for our guides. That usage > works at any terminal and thus one need not insert additional references > to how to get a root shell. > > I agree that we all should follow the recommended usage to maintain consistency in our documents. Most of the people who know about su - would also know about su -c, IMO. Further feedback is welcome. -- Thanks and regards, Sudheer Satyanarayana http://binaryvibes.co.in From k5di at zianet.com Sat Dec 22 23:00:30 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 16:00:30 -0700 Subject: CLS problem Message-ID: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> I am not able to do this. I have been trying to reply to email sent to me with the file fedora-icla-karl.txt which I added the I Agree and Karl Larsen to. The new Instructions show how to do this with Gedit and I used that. The resulting file is very different than the one made directly with gpg. Here is the new file: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Fedora Project Individual Contributor License Agreement (CLA) http://www.fedora.redhat.com/licenses/ Thank you for your interest in The Fedora Project (the "Project"). In order to clarify the intellectual property license granted with Contributions from any person or entity, Red hat, Inc. ("Red Hat"), as maintainer of the Project, must have a Contributor License Agreement (CLA) on file that has been signed by each Contributor, indicating agreement to the license terms below. This license is for Your protection as a Contributor as well as the protection of the Project and its users; it does not change your rights to use your own Contributions for any other purpose. If you have not already done so, please complete an original signed Agreement. Use black ink, and hand-print or type the items other than the signature. Send the completed Agreement to Fedora Project, c/o Red Hat, Inc., Attn: Legal Affairs 1801 Varsity Drive Raleigh, North Carolina, 27606 U.S.A. If necessary, you may send it by facsimile to the Project at +1-919-754-3704 or e-mail a signed pdf copy of the document to fedora-legal at redhat.com. Please read this document carefully before signing and keep a copy for your records. Full name: Karl Larsen E-Mail: k5di at zianet.com Address: 3310 East Street, Las Cruces, NM 88005 Telephone: 575 524-3303 Facsimile: You and the Project hereby accept and agree to the following terms and conditions: 1. Contributors and Contributions. A. The Project and any individual or legal entity that voluntarily submits to the Project a Contribution are collectively addressed herein as "Contributors". For legal entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common control with that entity are considered to be a single Contributor. For the purposes of this definition, "control" means (i) the power, direct or indirect, to cause the direction or management of such entity, whether by contract or otherwise, or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or more of the outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such entity. B. A "Contribution" is any original work, including any modification or addition to an existing work, that has been submitted for inclusion in, or documentation of, any of the products owned or managed by the Project, where such work originates from that particular Contributor or from some entity acting on behalf of that Contributor. C. A Contribution is "submitted" when any form of electronic, verbal, or written communication is sent to the Project, including but not limited to communication on electronic mailing lists, source code control systems, and issue tracking systems that are managed by, or on behalf of, the Project for the purpose of discussing or improving software or documentation of the Project, but excluding communication that is conspicuously marked or otherwise designated in writing by you as "Not a Contribution." D. Any Contribution submitted by you to the Project shall be under the terms and conditions of this License, without any additional terms or conditions, unless you explicitly state otherwise in the submission. 2. Contributor Grant of License. You hereby grant to Red Hat, Inc., on behalf of the Project, and to recipients of software distributed by the Project: (a) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, royalty free, irrevocable copyright license to reproduce, prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly perform, sublicense, and distribute your Contribution and such derivative works; and, (b) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, royalty free, irrevocable (subject to Section 3) patent license to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and otherwise transfer your Contribution and derivative works thereof, where such license applies only to those patent claims licensable by you that are necessarily infringed by your Contribution alone or by combination of your Contribution with the work to which you submitted the Contribution. Except for the license granted in this section, you reserve all right, title and interest in and to your Contributions. 3. Reciprocity. As of the date any such litigation is filed, your patent grant shall immediately terminate with respect to any party that institutes patent litigation against you (including a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that your Contribution, or the work to which you have contributed, constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement. 4. You represent that you are legally entitled to grant the above license. If your employer(s) has rights to intellectual property that you create that includes your Contributions, you represent that you have received permission to make Contributions on behalf of that employer, that your employer has waived such rights for your Contributions to the Project, or that your employer has executed a separate Corporate CLA with the Project. 5. You represent that each of your Contributions is your original creation (see section 7 for submissions on behalf of others). You represent that your Contribution submission(s) include complete details of any third-party license or other restriction (including, but not limited to, related copyright, patents and trademarks) of which you are personally aware and which are associated with any part of your Contribution. 6. You are not expected to provide support for your Contributions, except to the extent you desire to provide support. You may provide support for free, for a fee, or not at all. Your Contributions are provided on an "AS IS" BASIS, WITHOUT WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, either express or implied, including, without limitation, any warranties or conditions of NON-INFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. 7. Should you wish to submit work that is not your original creation, you may submit it to the Project separately from any Contribution, identifying the complete details of its source and of any license or other restriction (including, but not limited to, related patents, trademarks, and license agreements) of which you are personally aware, and conspicuously marking the work as "Submitted on behalf of a third-party: [named here]". 8. You agree to notify the Project of any facts or circumstances of which you become aware that would make these representations inaccurate in any respect. 9. The Project is under no obligations to accept and include every contribution. If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: I agree Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 E-mail: k5di at zianet.com Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHbZIgMnnrsLYmK34RAq9MAJ40OYkyGvAHEqtpPxwBD3wORTTMPQCfcGhz FchikxppPFbM11rVkd7L3BU= =xxyA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- When I reply to the email I put this file in as an Attachment as the Instructions say on Thunderbird but the return message says it didn't work. Any ideas? Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Dec 22 23:47:28 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:47:28 +1300 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> Message-ID: <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> Karl, please try in exactly this order: 1] save the original fedora-icla-karl.txt attachment to your Desktop 2] start Applications-->Accessories-->Text Editor 3] In Text Editor, click File-->Open and browse to: Desktop/fedora-icla-karl.txt 4] Fill in required details 5] In Text Editor, click File-->Save and close the editor. 6] Open Terminal 7] run this command: gpg -a --sign Desktop/fedora-icla-karl.txt and enter your GPG passphrase when prompted 8] File fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc should now be in ~/Desktop 9] Send this file as an attachment to email message 10] (optional) let us know whether it worked Vladimir Karl Larsen wrote: > I am not able to do this. I have been trying to reply to email sent > to me with the file fedora-icla-karl.txt which I added the I Agree and > Karl Larsen to. The new Instructions show how to do this with Gedit and > I used that. The resulting file is very different than the one made > directly with gpg. Here is the new file: > > > The Fedora Project > Individual Contributor License Agreement (CLA) > http://www.fedora.redhat.com/licenses/ > > Thank you for your interest in The Fedora Project (the > "Project"). In order to clarify the intellectual property license > granted with Contributions from any person or entity, Red hat, > Inc. ("Red Hat"), as maintainer of the Project, must have a > Contributor License Agreement (CLA) on file that has been signed > by each Contributor, indicating agreement to the license terms > below. This license is for Your protection as a Contributor as > well as the protection of the Project and its users; it does not > change your rights to use your own Contributions for any other > purpose. > > If you have not already done so, please complete an original signed > Agreement. Use black ink, and hand-print or type the items other than > the signature. Send the completed Agreement to > > Fedora Project, c/o Red Hat, Inc., > Attn: Legal Affairs > 1801 Varsity Drive > Raleigh, North Carolina, 27606 U.S.A. > > If necessary, you may send it by facsimile to the Project at > +1-919-754-3704 or e-mail a signed pdf copy of the document to > fedora-legal at redhat.com. Please read this document carefully before > signing and keep a copy for your records. > > Full name: Karl Larsen E-Mail: k5di at zianet.com > > Address: > 3310 East Street, Las Cruces, NM 88005 > > Telephone: 575 524-3303 > > Facsimile: > > You and the Project hereby accept and agree to the following terms > and conditions: > > 1. Contributors and Contributions. > > A. The Project and any individual or legal entity that > voluntarily submits to the Project a Contribution are > collectively addressed herein as "Contributors". For legal > entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other > entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common > control with that entity are considered to be a single > Contributor. For the purposes of this definition, "control" > means (i) the power, direct or indirect, to cause the direction > or management of such entity, whether by contract or otherwise, > or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or more of the > outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such > entity. > > B. A "Contribution" is any original work, including any > modification or addition to an existing work, that has been > submitted for inclusion in, or documentation of, any of the > products owned or managed by the Project, where such work > originates from that particular Contributor or from some entity > acting on behalf of that Contributor. > > C. A Contribution is "submitted" when any form of electronic, > verbal, or written communication is sent to the Project, > including but not limited to communication on electronic > mailing lists, source code control systems, and issue tracking > systems that are managed by, or on behalf of, the Project for > the purpose of discussing or improving software or > documentation of the Project, but excluding communication that > is conspicuously marked or otherwise designated in writing by > you as "Not a Contribution." > > D. Any Contribution submitted by you to the Project shall be > under the terms and conditions of this License, without any > additional terms or conditions, unless you explicitly state > otherwise in the submission. > > 2. Contributor Grant of License. You hereby grant to Red Hat, > Inc., on behalf of the Project, and to recipients of software > distributed by the Project: > > (a) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, > royalty free, irrevocable copyright license to reproduce, > prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly > perform, sublicense, and distribute your Contribution and such > derivative works; and, > > (b) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, > royalty free, irrevocable (subject to Section 3) patent license > to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and > otherwise transfer your Contribution and derivative works > thereof, where such license applies only to those patent claims > licensable by you that are necessarily infringed by your > Contribution alone or by combination of your Contribution with > the work to which you submitted the Contribution. Except for > the license granted in this section, you reserve all right, > title and interest in and to your Contributions. > > 3. Reciprocity. As of the date any such litigation is filed, your > patent grant shall immediately terminate with respect to any > party that institutes patent litigation against you (including > a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that your > Contribution, or the work to which you have contributed, > constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement. > > 4. You represent that you are legally entitled to grant the above > license. If your employer(s) has rights to intellectual > property that you create that includes your Contributions, you > represent that you have received permission to make > Contributions on behalf of that employer, that your employer > has waived such rights for your Contributions to the Project, > or that your employer has executed a separate Corporate CLA > with the Project. > > 5. You represent that each of your Contributions is your original > creation (see section 7 for submissions on behalf of others). > You represent that your Contribution submission(s) include > complete details of any third-party license or other > restriction (including, but not limited to, related copyright, > patents and trademarks) of which you are personally aware and > which are associated with any part of your Contribution. > > 6. You are not expected to provide support for your Contributions, > except to the extent you desire to provide support. You may > provide support for free, for a fee, or not at all. Your > Contributions are provided on an "AS IS" BASIS, WITHOUT > WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, either express or > implied, including, without limitation, any warranties or > conditions of NON-INFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, or FITNESS FOR > A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. > > 7. Should you wish to submit work that is not your original > creation, you may submit it to the Project separately from any > Contribution, identifying the complete details of its source > and of any license or other restriction (including, but not > limited to, related patents, trademarks, and license > agreements) of which you are personally aware, and > conspicuously marking the work as "Submitted on behalf of a > third-party: [named here]". > > 8. You agree to notify the Project of any facts or circumstances > of which you become aware that would make these representations > inaccurate in any respect. > > 9. The Project is under no obligations to accept and include every > contribution. > > > > > > If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: I agree > Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen > Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 > E-mail: k5di at zianet.com > Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 When I reply to the email I put this file in as an Attachment as the Instructions say on Thunderbird but the return message says it didn't work. Any ideas? Karl -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 23 00:21:56 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:21:56 -0700 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> Hi Vlad, nothing back from fedora yet. attached is the file I made. Karl PS: Thank you and Merry Christmas from an old Jew :-) Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Karl, please try in exactly this order: > > 1] save the original fedora-icla-karl.txt attachment to your Desktop > 2] start Applications-->Accessories-->Text Editor > 3] In Text Editor, click File-->Open and browse to: > Desktop/fedora-icla-karl.txt > 4] Fill in required details > 5] In Text Editor, click File-->Save and close the editor. > 6] Open Terminal > 7] run this command: > > gpg -a --sign Desktop/fedora-icla-karl.txt > > and enter your GPG passphrase when prompted > 8] File fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc should now be in ~/Desktop > 9] Send this file as an attachment to email message > 10] (optional) let us know whether it worked > > Vladimir > > Karl Larsen wrote: > >> I am not able to do this. I have been trying to reply to email sent >> to me with the file fedora-icla-karl.txt which I added the I Agree and >> Karl Larsen to. The new Instructions show how to do this with Gedit and >> I used that. The resulting file is very different than the one made >> directly with gpg. Here is the new file: >> >> >> The Fedora Project >> Individual Contributor License Agreement (CLA) >> http://www.fedora.redhat.com/licenses/ >> >> Thank you for your interest in The Fedora Project (the >> "Project"). In order to clarify the intellectual property license >> granted with Contributions from any person or entity, Red hat, >> Inc. ("Red Hat"), as maintainer of the Project, must have a >> Contributor License Agreement (CLA) on file that has been signed >> by each Contributor, indicating agreement to the license terms >> below. This license is for Your protection as a Contributor as >> well as the protection of the Project and its users; it does not >> change your rights to use your own Contributions for any other >> purpose. >> >> If you have not already done so, please complete an original signed >> Agreement. Use black ink, and hand-print or type the items other than >> the signature. Send the completed Agreement to >> >> Fedora Project, c/o Red Hat, Inc., >> Attn: Legal Affairs >> 1801 Varsity Drive >> Raleigh, North Carolina, 27606 U.S.A. >> >> If necessary, you may send it by facsimile to the Project at >> +1-919-754-3704 or e-mail a signed pdf copy of the document to >> fedora-legal at redhat.com. Please read this document carefully before >> signing and keep a copy for your records. >> >> Full name: Karl Larsen E-Mail: k5di at zianet.com >> >> Address: >> 3310 East Street, Las Cruces, NM 88005 >> >> Telephone: 575 524-3303 >> >> Facsimile: >> >> You and the Project hereby accept and agree to the following terms >> and conditions: >> >> 1. Contributors and Contributions. >> >> A. The Project and any individual or legal entity that >> voluntarily submits to the Project a Contribution are >> collectively addressed herein as "Contributors". For legal >> entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other >> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common >> control with that entity are considered to be a single >> Contributor. For the purposes of this definition, "control" >> means (i) the power, direct or indirect, to cause the direction >> or management of such entity, whether by contract or otherwise, >> or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or more of the >> outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such >> entity. >> >> B. A "Contribution" is any original work, including any >> modification or addition to an existing work, that has been >> submitted for inclusion in, or documentation of, any of the >> products owned or managed by the Project, where such work >> originates from that particular Contributor or from some entity >> acting on behalf of that Contributor. >> >> C. A Contribution is "submitted" when any form of electronic, >> verbal, or written communication is sent to the Project, >> including but not limited to communication on electronic >> mailing lists, source code control systems, and issue tracking >> systems that are managed by, or on behalf of, the Project for >> the purpose of discussing or improving software or >> documentation of the Project, but excluding communication that >> is conspicuously marked or otherwise designated in writing by >> you as "Not a Contribution." >> >> D. Any Contribution submitted by you to the Project shall be >> under the terms and conditions of this License, without any >> additional terms or conditions, unless you explicitly state >> otherwise in the submission. >> >> 2. Contributor Grant of License. You hereby grant to Red Hat, >> Inc., on behalf of the Project, and to recipients of software >> distributed by the Project: >> >> (a) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, >> royalty free, irrevocable copyright license to reproduce, >> prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly >> perform, sublicense, and distribute your Contribution and such >> derivative works; and, >> >> (b) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, >> royalty free, irrevocable (subject to Section 3) patent license >> to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and >> otherwise transfer your Contribution and derivative works >> thereof, where such license applies only to those patent claims >> licensable by you that are necessarily infringed by your >> Contribution alone or by combination of your Contribution with >> the work to which you submitted the Contribution. Except for >> the license granted in this section, you reserve all right, >> title and interest in and to your Contributions. >> >> 3. Reciprocity. As of the date any such litigation is filed, your >> patent grant shall immediately terminate with respect to any >> party that institutes patent litigation against you (including >> a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that your >> Contribution, or the work to which you have contributed, >> constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement. >> >> 4. You represent that you are legally entitled to grant the above >> license. If your employer(s) has rights to intellectual >> property that you create that includes your Contributions, you >> represent that you have received permission to make >> Contributions on behalf of that employer, that your employer >> has waived such rights for your Contributions to the Project, >> or that your employer has executed a separate Corporate CLA >> with the Project. >> >> 5. You represent that each of your Contributions is your original >> creation (see section 7 for submissions on behalf of others). >> You represent that your Contribution submission(s) include >> complete details of any third-party license or other >> restriction (including, but not limited to, related copyright, >> patents and trademarks) of which you are personally aware and >> which are associated with any part of your Contribution. >> >> 6. You are not expected to provide support for your Contributions, >> except to the extent you desire to provide support. You may >> provide support for free, for a fee, or not at all. Your >> Contributions are provided on an "AS IS" BASIS, WITHOUT >> WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, either express or >> implied, including, without limitation, any warranties or >> conditions of NON-INFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, or FITNESS FOR >> A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. >> >> 7. Should you wish to submit work that is not your original >> creation, you may submit it to the Project separately from any >> Contribution, identifying the complete details of its source >> and of any license or other restriction (including, but not >> limited to, related patents, trademarks, and license >> agreements) of which you are personally aware, and >> conspicuously marking the work as "Submitted on behalf of a >> third-party: [named here]". >> >> 8. You agree to notify the Project of any facts or circumstances >> of which you become aware that would make these representations >> inaccurate in any respect. >> >> 9. The Project is under no obligations to accept and include every >> contribution. >> >> >> >> >> >> If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: I agree >> Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen >> Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 >> E-mail: k5di at zianet.com >> Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 >> > > When I reply to the email I put this file in as an Attachment as the > Instructions say on Thunderbird but the return message says it didn't > work. Any ideas? > > Karl > > > -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 4390 bytes Desc: not available URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 23 00:29:10 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 17:29:10 -0700 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> Message-ID: <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Hi Vlad, nothing back from fedora yet. attached is the file I made. > > Karl > > PS: Thank you and Merry Christmas from an old Jew :-) > > > > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> Karl, please try in exactly this order: >> >> 1] save the original fedora-icla-karl.txt attachment to your Desktop >> 2] start Applications-->Accessories-->Text Editor >> 3] In Text Editor, click File-->Open and browse to: >> Desktop/fedora-icla-karl.txt >> 4] Fill in required details >> 5] In Text Editor, click File-->Save and close the editor. >> 6] Open Terminal >> 7] run this command: >> >> gpg -a --sign Desktop/fedora-icla-karl.txt >> >> and enter your GPG passphrase when prompted >> 8] File fedora-icla-karl.txt.asc should now be in ~/Desktop >> 9] Send this file as an attachment to email message >> 10] (optional) let us know whether it worked >> >> Vladimir >> >> Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> I am not able to do this. I have been trying to reply to email sent >>> to me with the file fedora-icla-karl.txt which I added the I Agree and >>> Karl Larsen to. The new Instructions show how to do this with Gedit and >>> I used that. The resulting file is very different than the one made >>> directly with gpg. Here is the new file: >>> >>> >>> The Fedora Project >>> Individual Contributor License Agreement (CLA) >>> http://www.fedora.redhat.com/licenses/ >>> >>> Thank you for your interest in The Fedora Project (the >>> "Project"). In order to clarify the intellectual property license >>> granted with Contributions from any person or entity, Red hat, >>> Inc. ("Red Hat"), as maintainer of the Project, must have a >>> Contributor License Agreement (CLA) on file that has been signed >>> by each Contributor, indicating agreement to the license terms >>> below. This license is for Your protection as a Contributor as >>> well as the protection of the Project and its users; it does not >>> change your rights to use your own Contributions for any other >>> purpose. >>> >>> If you have not already done so, please complete an original signed >>> Agreement. Use black ink, and hand-print or type the items other >>> than >>> the signature. Send the completed Agreement to >>> >>> Fedora Project, c/o Red Hat, Inc., >>> Attn: Legal Affairs >>> 1801 Varsity Drive >>> Raleigh, North Carolina, 27606 U.S.A. >>> >>> If necessary, you may send it by facsimile to the Project at >>> +1-919-754-3704 or e-mail a signed pdf copy of the document to >>> fedora-legal at redhat.com. Please read this document carefully before >>> signing and keep a copy for your records. >>> >>> Full name: Karl Larsen E-Mail: >>> k5di at zianet.com >>> >>> Address: >>> 3310 East Street, Las Cruces, NM 88005 >>> >>> Telephone: 575 524-3303 >>> >>> Facsimile: >>> >>> You and the Project hereby accept and agree to the following terms >>> and conditions: >>> >>> 1. Contributors and Contributions. >>> >>> A. The Project and any individual or legal entity that >>> voluntarily submits to the Project a Contribution are >>> collectively addressed herein as "Contributors". For legal >>> entities, the entity making a Contribution and all other >>> entities that control, are controlled by, or are under common >>> control with that entity are considered to be a single >>> Contributor. For the purposes of this definition, "control" >>> means (i) the power, direct or indirect, to cause the direction >>> or management of such entity, whether by contract or otherwise, >>> or (ii) ownership of fifty percent (50%) or more of the >>> outstanding shares, or (iii) beneficial ownership of such >>> entity. >>> >>> B. A "Contribution" is any original work, including any >>> modification or addition to an existing work, that has been >>> submitted for inclusion in, or documentation of, any of the >>> products owned or managed by the Project, where such work >>> originates from that particular Contributor or from some entity >>> acting on behalf of that Contributor. >>> >>> C. A Contribution is "submitted" when any form of electronic, >>> verbal, or written communication is sent to the Project, >>> including but not limited to communication on electronic >>> mailing lists, source code control systems, and issue tracking >>> systems that are managed by, or on behalf of, the Project for >>> the purpose of discussing or improving software or >>> documentation of the Project, but excluding communication that >>> is conspicuously marked or otherwise designated in writing by >>> you as "Not a Contribution." >>> >>> D. Any Contribution submitted by you to the Project shall be >>> under the terms and conditions of this License, without any >>> additional terms or conditions, unless you explicitly state >>> otherwise in the submission. >>> >>> 2. Contributor Grant of License. You hereby grant to Red Hat, >>> Inc., on behalf of the Project, and to recipients of software >>> distributed by the Project: >>> >>> (a) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, >>> royalty free, irrevocable copyright license to reproduce, >>> prepare derivative works of, publicly display, publicly >>> perform, sublicense, and distribute your Contribution and such >>> derivative works; and, >>> >>> (b) a perpetual, non-exclusive, worldwide, fully paid-up, >>> royalty free, irrevocable (subject to Section 3) patent license >>> to make, have made, use, offer to sell, sell, import, and >>> otherwise transfer your Contribution and derivative works >>> thereof, where such license applies only to those patent claims >>> licensable by you that are necessarily infringed by your >>> Contribution alone or by combination of your Contribution with >>> the work to which you submitted the Contribution. Except for >>> the license granted in this section, you reserve all right, >>> title and interest in and to your Contributions. >>> >>> 3. Reciprocity. As of the date any such litigation is filed, your >>> patent grant shall immediately terminate with respect to any >>> party that institutes patent litigation against you (including >>> a cross-claim or counterclaim in a lawsuit) alleging that your >>> Contribution, or the work to which you have contributed, >>> constitutes direct or contributory patent infringement. >>> >>> 4. You represent that you are legally entitled to grant the above >>> license. If your employer(s) has rights to intellectual >>> property that you create that includes your Contributions, you >>> represent that you have received permission to make >>> Contributions on behalf of that employer, that your employer >>> has waived such rights for your Contributions to the Project, >>> or that your employer has executed a separate Corporate CLA >>> with the Project. >>> >>> 5. You represent that each of your Contributions is your original >>> creation (see section 7 for submissions on behalf of others). >>> You represent that your Contribution submission(s) include >>> complete details of any third-party license or other >>> restriction (including, but not limited to, related copyright, >>> patents and trademarks) of which you are personally aware and >>> which are associated with any part of your Contribution. >>> >>> 6. You are not expected to provide support for your Contributions, >>> except to the extent you desire to provide support. You may >>> provide support for free, for a fee, or not at all. Your >>> Contributions are provided on an "AS IS" BASIS, WITHOUT >>> WARRANTIES OR CONDITIONS OF ANY KIND, either express or >>> implied, including, without limitation, any warranties or >>> conditions of NON-INFRINGEMENT, MERCHANTABILITY, or FITNESS FOR >>> A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. >>> >>> 7. Should you wish to submit work that is not your original >>> creation, you may submit it to the Project separately from any >>> Contribution, identifying the complete details of its source >>> and of any license or other restriction (including, but not >>> limited to, related patents, trademarks, and license >>> agreements) of which you are personally aware, and >>> conspicuously marking the work as "Submitted on behalf of a >>> third-party: [named here]". >>> >>> 8. You agree to notify the Project of any facts or circumstances >>> of which you become aware that would make these representations >>> inaccurate in any respect. >>> >>> 9. The Project is under no obligations to accept and include every >>> contribution. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> If you agree to these terms and conditions, type "I agree" here: >>> I agree >>> Enter your full name here: Karl Larsen >>> Signing code: 6314c512cb565e955aec16204c1fad48 >>> E-mail: k5di at zianet.com >>> Date: 2007-12-18 17:00:49.46 >>> >> >> When I reply to the email I put this file in as an Attachment as the >> Instructions say on Thunderbird but the return message says it didn't >> work. Any ideas? >> >> Karl >> >> >> > > I got the old and bad message that it didn't work. I'm about to say no more. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sun Dec 23 01:00:26 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:00:26 +1300 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> Message-ID: <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> >> > I got the old and bad message that it didn't work. I'm about to say > no more. > I am guessing but I think you may be signing invalid (old) CLA agreement. Try to obtain a fresh CLA here: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/send-cla.cgi and then repeat the steps from my previous message. Also, if you haven't yet, make sure that you are going through the process in correct order [more info below]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ Vladimir > Karl > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 23 01:45:18 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 18:45:18 -0700 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <476DBDAE.8070300@zianet.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> I got the old and bad message that it didn't work. I'm about to say >> no more. >> >> > > I am guessing but I think you may be signing invalid (old) CLA agreement. > > Try to obtain a fresh CLA here: > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/send-cla.cgi > > and then repeat the steps from my previous message. > > Also, if you haven't yet, make sure that you are going through the > process in correct order [more info below]: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ > > Vladimir > Hi Vlad, the last try was with a whole new file from cla. And it didn't work. I am certain that something is wrong here. I am going to drop clear out of this group tonight. Tomorrow I will make a new gpg key after closing this one down, if I can, and try ONE MORE TIME. Failure of the new try will be permanent Karl . > >> Karl >> >> >> > > -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From mmcgrath at redhat.com Sun Dec 23 03:38:12 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 21:38:12 -0600 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <476DD824.3080801@redhat.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> I got the old and bad message that it didn't work. I'm about to say >> no more. >> >> > > I am guessing but I think you may be signing invalid (old) CLA agreement. > > Try to obtain a fresh CLA here: > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/send-cla.cgi > > and then repeat the steps from my previous message. > > Also, if you haven't yet, make sure that you are going through the > process in correct order [more info below]: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ > > Vladimir > > Also quite possible the new key is not uplodaed to pgp.mit.edu -Mike From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 23 03:58:13 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 22 Dec 2007 19:58:13 -0800 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <1198382294.3593.200.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-12-22 at 02:53 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > But these are probably better discussed off the list, > if indeed I am given the task of trying to bring your HOWTO > (and it would remain your HOWTO) into the FDP? It's generally a good practice to keep all discussions on the list, if you can. We'd all like the chance to learn and help each other. thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tombo at adamantio.net Sun Dec 23 08:04:40 2007 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 09:04:40 +0100 Subject: TQSG wrong submit link Message-ID: <476E1698.6090200@adamantio.net> Hallo all, in the TQSG the link to submit translated .po file is still https://publictest5.fedora.redhat.com/submit/ but recently I found that is https://translate.fedoraproject.org/submit/module/ Should this be fixed in the next release? -- Francesco Tombolini Key fingerprint = EDA9 7504 AA93 CEFC 5990 1356 8584 6B05 F140 5F73 http://www.adamantio.net From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 07:37:22 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 07:37:22 +0000 Subject: TQSG wrong submit link In-Reply-To: <476E1698.6090200@adamantio.net> References: <476E1698.6090200@adamantio.net> Message-ID: <1198395442.5339.127.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 09:04 +0100, Francesco Tombolini wrote: > Hallo all, in the TQSG the link to submit translated .po file is still > https://publictest5.fedora.redhat.com/submit/ > but recently I found that is > https://translate.fedoraproject.org/submit/module/ > Should this be fixed in the next release? Ciao Francesco, I just fixed these links and committed the POT change in Docs CVS. In the future, however, it would be great if you could file these problems in Bugzilla, where it's easier to track them than a mailing list. Thanks for the catch! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sun Dec 23 10:34:09 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:34:09 +1300 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476DD824.3080801@redhat.com> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> <476DD824.3080801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <476E39A1.2010607@mkc.co.nz> Mike McGrath wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >>> I got the old and bad message that it didn't work. I'm about to say >>> no more. >>> >>> >> >> I am guessing but I think you may be signing invalid (old) CLA agreement. >> >> Try to obtain a fresh CLA here: >> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/send-cla.cgi >> >> and then repeat the steps from my previous message. >> >> Also, if you haven't yet, make sure that you are going through the >> process in correct order [more info below]: >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ >> >> Vladimir >> >> > > Also quite possible the new key is not uplodaed to pgp.mit.edu > Actually, this is the most likely reason, since query on pgp.mit.edu shows different public key http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=k5di%40zianet&op=index than the one in Karl's email messages [B6262B7E], which doesn't exist on the key server. Vladimir > -Mike > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From gayleard at eircom.net Sun Dec 23 15:16:54 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:16:54 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712192127t57ddeff8n562568d261b7bc62@mail.gmail.com> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> <95f1114b0712192127t57ddeff8n562568d261b7bc62@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <200712231516.54888.gayleard@eircom.net> On Thursday 20 December 2007 05:27:31 am Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi Tim, > > Thanks for joining. I'm glad you got your keys sorted out. That was > almost correct, but you do not need the 0x pre-pended (so it would be > 1381C1A4F). Out of curiosity, where did you find that information > (0x)? I've been experimenting with pgp a little, and it seems to me that pgp.mit.edu _does_ expect 0x to precede the key. I've looked again at , and in my view the advice given there is not the best. What for instance do the lines ------------------------------------------------------ gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --send-key KEYNAME For KEYNAME, substitute the key ID of your primary keypair. ------------------------------------------------------ actually mean? Why not just give an example instead of this abstract terminology. Assuming the "key ID" means something like "D575F650" then the advice in my experience does not work. I believe a far better procedure is to create a key-pair on one's computer (I use kgpg) and an ascii version of this (in kgpg with Keys=>Export public keys). Then go to and enter the ascii version there. When this has completed, check that the key is entered by trying something like 0xD575F650 . (You can enter the longer version - 0xC9010A47299E1F3A643D8AB2C9C110DFD575F650 - in my case, but you must, as far as I can see, precede the hexadecimal in all cases with 0x.) In my experience, it is much easier to do things like this as directly as possible, rather than using "clever" procedures that are meant to make it quicker. After all, one is not likely to be creating key-pairs every day. From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 23 15:43:18 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:43:18 -0700 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476DD824.3080801@redhat.com> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> <476DD824.3080801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <476E8216.6000108@zianet.com> Mike McGrath wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >>> I got the old and bad message that it didn't work. I'm about to say >>> no more. >>> >>> >> >> I am guessing but I think you may be signing invalid (old) CLA >> agreement. >> >> Try to obtain a fresh CLA here: >> >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/send-cla.cgi >> >> and then repeat the steps from my previous message. >> >> Also, if you haven't yet, make sure that you are going through the >> process in correct order [more info below]: >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ >> >> Vladimir >> >> > > Also quite possible the new key is not uplodaed to pgp.mit.edu > > -Mike > It has been there a week or more Mike. You can't get the first thing to work without that. Please give me more credit. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 23 15:50:15 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:50:15 -0700 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476E39A1.2010607@mkc.co.nz> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> <476DD824.3080801@redhat.com> <476E39A1.2010607@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <476E83B7.2010104@zianet.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: > >> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> >>>> I got the old and bad message that it didn't work. I'm about to say >>>> no more. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> I am guessing but I think you may be signing invalid (old) CLA agreement. >>> >>> Try to obtain a fresh CLA here: >>> >>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/send-cla.cgi >>> >>> and then repeat the steps from my previous message. >>> >>> Also, if you haven't yet, make sure that you are going through the >>> process in correct order [more info below]: >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem >>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ >>> >>> Vladimir >>> >>> >>> >> Also quite possible the new key is not uplodaed to pgp.mit.edu >> >> > Actually, this is the most likely reason, since query on pgp.mit.edu > shows different public key > > http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?search=k5di%40zianet&op=index > > than the one in Karl's email messages [B6262B7E], which doesn't exist on > the key server. > > Vladimir > > > >> -Mike >> >> > > WOW! I do not know how to test it guys but I made [B6262B7E] with Seahorse and followed exactly the instructions to send it to MIT. It looks like it didn't work. I will start again with a new key and make dam sure it gets to MIT. This key business is a lot of trouble for a tiny payback. I will try and learn to check for my key on MIT. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 16:42:07 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:42:07 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712231516.54888.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712200228.49872.gayleard@eircom.net> <95f1114b0712192127t57ddeff8n562568d261b7bc62@mail.gmail.com> <200712231516.54888.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <1198428127.5339.141.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 15:16 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Thursday 20 December 2007 05:27:31 am Murray McAllister wrote: > > > Hi Tim, > > > > Thanks for joining. I'm glad you got your keys sorted out. That was > > almost correct, but you do not need the 0x pre-pended (so it would be > > 1381C1A4F). Out of curiosity, where did you find that information > > (0x)? > > I've been experimenting with pgp a little, > and it seems to me that pgp.mit.edu _does_ expect 0x to precede the key. > > I've looked again at > , > and in my view the advice given there is not the best. > > What for instance do the lines > ------------------------------------------------------ > gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --send-key KEYNAME > > For KEYNAME, substitute the key ID of your primary keypair. > ------------------------------------------------------ > actually mean? > Why not just give an example instead of this abstract terminology. > > Assuming the "key ID" means something like "D575F650" > then the advice in my experience does not work. I just performed this step on my machine again, using my key ID "BD113717," and the procedure worked fine. I have done this many times, both with a prepended "0x" and without, and all of these operations succeeded. I've confirmed the success using wireshark to look at the network traffic. I think if you are having a problem -- the nature of which I can't tell from the information you gave -- it might be on your end. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 16:46:56 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:46:56 +0000 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476E83B7.2010104@zianet.com> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> <476DD824.3080801@redhat.com> <476E39A1.2010607@mkc.co.nz> <476E83B7.2010104@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1198428416.5339.147.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 08:50 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > WOW! I do not know how to test it guys but I made [B6262B7E] with > Seahorse and followed exactly the instructions to send it to MIT. It > looks like it didn't work. > > I will start again with a new key and make dam sure it gets to MIT. This > key business is a lot of trouble for a tiny payback. I beg to differ, the payback is HUGE. I've been working with the Fedora Project for over four years now, and it is one of the most rewarding parts of my life. I've been part of a worldwide movement that continues to change the nature of the global information economy; I've learned a huge number of new skills, maybe some better than others; I've helped seed work (in some very tiny way, surely) to put technology in the hands of children in developing nations, and I've met many fantastic and brilliant people while doing it. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 23 16:52:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 08:52:22 -0800 Subject: meetings through 2007 and beyond Message-ID: <1198428742.3593.207.camel@erato.phig.org> Considering that our standing FDSCo meeting is so close to the major holiday season for 1/3rd of the world's population, and everyone is busy with $stuff, let's cancel the FDSCo meetings for the remainder of 2007. For the Sunday 6 January 2008 meeting, we'll be convening with the new FDSCo. One thing I'll recommend we decide is to have some combination of fewer meetings (twice monthly) and rotating schedule (to catch convenient times for all members.) Meanwhile, plenty to discuss and do here on list, asynchronously. ;-) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 23 17:03:30 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:03:30 -0700 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <1198428416.5339.147.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> <476DD824.3080801@redhat.com> <476E39A1.2010607@mkc.co.nz> <476E83B7.2010104@zianet.com> <1198428416.5339.147.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <476E94E2.5010507@zianet.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 08:50 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> WOW! I do not know how to test it guys but I made [B6262B7E] with >> Seahorse and followed exactly the instructions to send it to MIT. It >> looks like it didn't work. >> >> I will start again with a new key and make dam sure it gets to MIT. This >> key business is a lot of trouble for a tiny payback. >> > > I beg to differ, the payback is HUGE. I've been working with the Fedora > Project for over four years now, and it is one of the most rewarding > parts of my life. I've been part of a worldwide movement that continues > to change the nature of the global information economy; I've learned a > huge number of new skills, maybe some better than others; I've helped > seed work (in some very tiny way, surely) to put technology in the hands > of children in developing nations, and I've met many fantastic and > brilliant people while doing it. > > I am on the web at http://gpgMIT.com and it is broken at 10 AM Sunday December 23 2007. It will not accept FE2353A7 or 0xFE2353A7 or anything so I can't join now. I will try again later today but Monday may be the soonest I can get my new key to them. This is a big problem if you need to do it, and a bigger problem if you thought you did but you didn't. The web page is good because when it says it did you can see if that is so. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 23 17:24:44 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 10:24:44 -0700 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476E94E2.5010507@zianet.com> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <476DA210.8000500@mkc.co.nz> <476DAA24.8010608@zianet.com> <476DABD6.5090106@zianet.com> <476DB32A.7020605@mkc.co.nz> <476DD824.3080801@redhat.com> <476E39A1.2010607@mkc.co.nz> <476E83B7.2010104@zianet.com> <1198428416.5339.147.camel@localhost.localdomain> <476E94E2.5010507@zianet.com> Message-ID: <476E99DC.8070808@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 08:50 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> WOW! I do not know how to test it guys but I made [B6262B7E] with >>> Seahorse and followed exactly the instructions to send it to MIT. It >>> looks like it didn't work. >>> >>> I will start again with a new key and make dam sure it gets to MIT. >>> This key business is a lot of trouble for a tiny payback. >>> >> >> I beg to differ, the payback is HUGE. I've been working with the Fedora >> Project for over four years now, and it is one of the most rewarding >> parts of my life. I've been part of a worldwide movement that continues >> to change the nature of the global information economy; I've learned a >> huge number of new skills, maybe some better than others; I've helped >> seed work (in some very tiny way, surely) to put technology in the hands >> of children in developing nations, and I've met many fantastic and >> brilliant people while doing it. >> >> > I am on the web at http://gpgMIT.com and it is broken at 10 AM > Sunday December 23 2007. It will not accept FE2353A7 or 0xFE2353A7 or > anything so I can't join now. I will try again later today but Monday > may be the soonest I can get my new key to them. This is a big problem > if you need to do it, and a bigger problem if you thought you did but > you didn't. The web page is good because when it says it did you can > see if that is so. > > Karl > > Well I used the manual way to send the key out and that went just now and wrote: gpg: sending key FE2353A7 to hkp server subkeys.pgp.net I will check and see if MIT has it yet. Well MIT has not got it so still dead in the water...how do you check for a key using gpg or seahorse? -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 7025 BB6C 7CC3 CFE7 43B2 1574 3279 EBB0 B626 2B7E From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 19:16:22 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:16:22 -0500 Subject: meetings through 2007 and beyond In-Reply-To: <1198428742.3593.207.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1198428742.3593.207.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1198437382.5365.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 08:52 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > Considering that our standing FDSCo meeting is so close to the major > holiday season for 1/3rd of the world's population, and everyone is busy > with $stuff, let's cancel the FDSCo meetings for the remainder of 2007. > > For the Sunday 6 January 2008 meeting, we'll be convening with the new > FDSCo. One thing I'll recommend we decide is to have some combination > of fewer meetings (twice monthly) and rotating schedule (to catch > convenient times for all members.) > > Meanwhile, plenty to discuss and do here on list, asynchronously. ;-) The rotating schedule seems like an excellent idea. I normally can make the Sunday meeting, but it's likely to become harder for me to do so regularly in 2008 -- having an alternate time to meet would be a good thing. Driving more traffic to the list is likely to invigorate the populace somewhat, so I'm always in favor of that. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 23 19:33:00 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:33:00 -0700 Subject: Important observation Message-ID: <476EB7EC.1070804@zianet.com> As I try to join the Fedora Doc I know a lot more about what is going on. The key issue is two fold. Did you get your key to MIT? Is MIT working now? The answer to both questions must be yes. I have known for some time that MIT is a key deposit computer and I once got a key to MIT. Now I know how to tell the answers. You MUST BOOKMARK on your web browser this: http://pgp.mit.edu/ And anytime you do anything with the Fedora Doc web page, you must first check to see if mit is working. Today the instructions tell you to send your key to another place that seems to work better. I found it worked fine,but, my key is not at mit so I can do nothing towards joining. It is important to tell the new member this information and let them know there is no way to continue joining. You just have to wait for someone to fix mit. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 19:34:14 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:34:14 +0300 Subject: meetings through 2007 and beyond In-Reply-To: <1198437382.5365.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198428742.3593.207.camel@erato.phig.org> <1198437382.5365.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712231134v321158b4hde48ab0db7f081df@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 23, 2007 10:16 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 08:52 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > Considering that our standing FDSCo meeting is so close to the major > > holiday season for 1/3rd of the world's population, and everyone is busy > > with $stuff, let's cancel the FDSCo meetings for the remainder of 2007. > > > > For the Sunday 6 January 2008 meeting, we'll be convening with the new > > FDSCo. One thing I'll recommend we decide is to have some combination > > of fewer meetings (twice monthly) and rotating schedule (to catch > > convenient times for all members.) > > For the sake of completeness, I will change the meeting page for 6 January 2008. > > Meanwhile, plenty to discuss and do here on list, asynchronously. ;-) > True > The rotating schedule seems like an excellent idea. I normally can make > the Sunday meeting, but it's likely to become harder for me to do so > regularly in 2008 -- having an alternate time to meet would be a good > thing. Driving more traffic to the list is likely to invigorate the > populace somewhat, so I'm always in favor of that. > I'm open to new approaches. Best Regard, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 20:02:44 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:02:44 -0500 Subject: Self-introduction for Fedora documentation project In-Reply-To: <4cc838cc0712200647t6f445262ge4ac0a965a35aec5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4cc838cc0712200647t6f445262ge4ac0a965a35aec5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1198440164.17121.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Marcel! On Thu, 2007-12-20 at 17:47 +0300, Marcel Lambert wrote: > Hello, > > My name is Marcel Lambert. I became a practitioner of Linux due > to internet security reasons with the release of Red Hat 9 and since then I live with > it and maintain occasional notes at http://netston.tripod.com/Windows_Linux.htm. > When choosing OS I am a conservative (you can call me rational minority), and > I use both Linux and Windows and live with advantages and disadvantages > of both. > > Originally, I got closely acquainted with computers about 25 year ago being a > student in natural sciences, and moved to IT entirely shortly after. I > designed and developed software, managed numerous IT projects. A turning point > in my career was in Tradescape.com, later purchased by E*Trade, where > I had managed a project (and was a key architect/developer) for MTrade platform > for trading stocks on NASDAQ/NYSE. > > My internet nickname is ARMADILLO, and I am interested in writing > about security topics and all the things in Fedora that help adventurous, > safety-demanding armadillos explore the world with Linux :-) Glad to have you aboard. As someone interested in security, would you be interested in getting involved by updating our SELinux FAQ for Fedora 8 and beyond? It has not really been updated since Fedora Core 5, but that doesn't mean there's necessarily a huge amount of material to add. Mainly it needs someone to go over it, compare it with some of the other available SELinux pages on the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SELinux ...and make the FAQ agree. I think Marc was working on this but he could probably use some extra hands. Please take a look at our style guide so that you can learn to approximate the tone we shoot for in our documents: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide If you have anything else in mind to do, please feel free to talk about it here. Again, welcome! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 20:11:42 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:11:42 -0500 Subject: Passive voice == evil. Message-ID: <1198440702.17121.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have looked over a wide variety of random insertions in some of our docs and see a lot of passive voice being used. Please try to use active voice in docs instead of passive voice wherever possible. The folloiwng is an example of the difference between active and passive voice: PASSIVE (incorrect): In Fedora 8, a new tool called "FooBar" has been introduced to help users create foobars. ACTIVE (correct): Fedora 8 includes a new tool called "FooBar" that helps users create foobars. Generally, passive voice includes unnecessary forms of the verb "to be," such as "has been," "is," or "was." Passive voice is unnecessarily difficult for translators in some locales to address. Here is one way to test for unnecessary passive voice. If the sentence includes a form of the verb "to be," does it: (A) describe an *attribute* of the sentence's subject, or (B) describe something that happened? If the answer is (B), the sentence probably uses passive voice and should be reworded. Today's English composition tip is brought to you by the letter "M" and the number 4. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi Sun Dec 23 20:29:06 2007 From: vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi (Ville-Pekka Vainio) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:29:06 +0200 Subject: Election reminder Message-ID: <200712232229.06355.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Hi all, As Karsten mentioned on his blog , tomorrow (the 24th of December) is the last day to vote in the FDSCo Elections. Nominations: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations Election page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Policy/FDSCoElections Voting system: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/voting/ So, don't forget to vote! Also, happy holidays everyone! -- Ville-Pekka Vainio From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 20:38:59 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:38:59 +0300 Subject: Self-introduction for Fedora documentation project In-Reply-To: <1198440164.17121.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4cc838cc0712200647t6f445262ge4ac0a965a35aec5@mail.gmail.com> <1198440164.17121.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712231238s51189776w39fad896109526db@mail.gmail.com> Marcel: Welcome to the Fedora Docs Project! I heartily endorse Paul's suggestions and wish you success with the project. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sun Dec 23 20:43:39 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:43:39 +1300 Subject: Passive voice == evil. In-Reply-To: <1198440702.17121.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198440702.17121.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <476EC87B.4010609@mkc.co.nz> Passive voice will not be used anymore! :-) Paul W. Frields wrote: > I have looked over a wide variety of random insertions in some of our > docs and see a lot of passive voice being used. Please try to use > active voice in docs instead of passive voice wherever possible. The > folloiwng is an example of the difference between active and passive > voice: > > PASSIVE (incorrect): In Fedora 8, a new tool called "FooBar" has been > introduced to help users create foobars. > ACTIVE (correct): Fedora 8 includes a new tool called "FooBar" that > helps users create foobars. > > Generally, passive voice includes unnecessary forms of the verb "to be," > such as "has been," "is," or "was." Passive voice is unnecessarily > difficult for translators in some locales to address. > > Here is one way to test for unnecessary passive voice. If the sentence > includes a form of the verb "to be," does it: > > (A) describe an *attribute* of the sentence's subject, or > (B) describe something that happened? > > If the answer is (B), the sentence probably uses passive voice and > should be reworded. > > Today's English composition tip is brought to you by the letter "M" and > the number 4. :-) > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 20:45:28 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:45:28 +0300 Subject: Passive voice == evil. In-Reply-To: <1198440702.17121.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198440702.17121.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712231245y2703ce3bsf4df8b54815bdaf@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 23, 2007 11:11 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Here is one way to test for unnecessary passive voice. If the sentence > includes a form of the verb "to be... Thanks to Paul, we now know that the answer to Hamlet's famous soliloquy is "NOT to be." BR, John "Ho Ho Ho" Babich From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 20:48:19 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:48:19 +0300 Subject: Election reminder In-Reply-To: <200712232229.06355.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> References: <200712232229.06355.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712231248h427d4a8ct89b3a57d10e14b8a@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 23, 2007 11:29 PM, Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote: > > So, don't forget to vote! Also, happy holidays everyone! > +1 on both accounts. Best Wishes, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 21:20:38 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:20:38 -0500 Subject: Passive voice == evil. In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712231245y2703ce3bsf4df8b54815bdaf@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198440702.17121.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0712231245y2703ce3bsf4df8b54815bdaf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1198444838.17121.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 23:45 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On Dec 23, 2007 11:11 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > Here is one way to test for unnecessary passive voice. If the sentence > > includes a form of the verb "to be... > > > > Thanks to Paul, we now know that the answer to Hamlet's famous > soliloquy is "NOT to be." > > BR, > > John "Ho Ho Ho" Babich Maybe I should have made an exception for either the infinitive or the Bard? :-D -- Paul "Slings and Arrows" Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gayleard at eircom.net Sun Dec 23 21:40:57 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:40:57 +0000 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <476E94E2.5010507@zianet.com> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <1198428416.5339.147.camel@localhost.localdomain> <476E94E2.5010507@zianet.com> Message-ID: <200712232140.57720.gayleard@eircom.net> On Sunday 23 December 2007 05:03:30 pm Karl Larsen wrote: > I am on the web at http://gpgMIT.com and it is broken at 10 AM > Sunday December 23 2007. It will not accept FE2353A7 or 0xFE2353A7 or > anything so I can't join now. I will try again later today but Monday > may be the soonest I can get my new key to them. This is a big problem > if you need to do it, and a bigger problem if you thought you did but > you didn't. The web page is good because when it says it did you can see > if that is so. (NB not gpg) seems to me to be working fine. >From my experience the best procedure is to create a key-pair and ascii version on one's computer, then go to pgp.mit.com and paste in the ascii version (in the "Submit a key" box) This takes a minute or so to complete. Then you can see if it has been registered by entering one's key in the "Extract a key" box. As far as I can see, you have to preface the key ID with 0x. The kgpg command to export a key to pgp.mit.edu did not seem to me to work. It said "Sending the key" but this seemed to continue indefinitely. As far as I can see, seahorse is the gnome equivalent of kgpg. If that is so, it should be mentioned in the wiki page. From gayleard at eircom.net Sun Dec 23 21:52:20 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:52:20 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <1198428127.5339.141.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712231516.54888.gayleard@eircom.net> <1198428127.5339.141.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200712232152.20644.gayleard@eircom.net> On Sunday 23 December 2007 04:42:07 pm Paul W. Frields wrote: > > What for instance do the lines > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --send-key KEYNAME > > > > For KEYNAME, substitute the key ID of your primary keypair. > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > actually mean? > > Why not just give an example instead of this abstract terminology. > > > > Assuming the "key ID" means something like "D575F650" > > then the advice in my experience does not work. > > I just performed this step on my machine again, using my key ID > "BD113717," and the procedure worked fine. What precisely are you doing? My statements are: 1. It is not clear what "key ID" means. If you google for this term, you will find that the ID is normally prefaced with 0x. Here for example is the entry in "PGP glossary" ------------------------------------------------------ To enable PGP to distinct between a username (userID) and the key ID, the keyID is prefixed with 0x, for example 0xDD934139. ... ------------------------------------------------------ But my main point is the term "key ID" _is not clear_, and should be accompanied by a concrete example. > I have done this many times, > both with a prepended "0x" and without, and all of these operations > succeeded. If you go to pgp.mit.edu (which appears to be the point of the exercise) and put in your ID without 0x, is it found? > I've confirmed the success using wireshark to look at the > network traffic. I think if you are having a problem -- the nature of > which I can't tell from the information you gave -- it might be on your > end. I'm not having a problem at all. I'm saying that the documentation is not clear. From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 23 22:18:52 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:18:52 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712232152.20644.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712231516.54888.gayleard@eircom.net> <1198428127.5339.141.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200712232152.20644.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <476EDECC.5090001@zianet.com> Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Sunday 23 December 2007 04:42:07 pm Paul W. Frields wrote: > > >>> What for instance do the lines >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>> gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --send-key KEYNAME >>> >>> For KEYNAME, substitute the key ID of your primary keypair. >>> ------------------------------------------------------ >>> actually mean? >>> Why not just give an example instead of this abstract terminology. >>> >>> Assuming the "key ID" means something like "D575F650" >>> then the advice in my experience does not work. >>> >> I just performed this step on my machine again, using my key ID >> "BD113717," and the procedure worked fine. >> > > What precisely are you doing? > > My statements are: > > 1. It is not clear what "key ID" means. > If you google for this term, > you will find that the ID is normally prefaced with 0x. > Here for example is the entry in "PGP glossary" > ------------------------------------------------------ > To enable PGP to distinct between a username (userID) and the key ID, the > keyID is prefixed with 0x, for example 0xDD934139. ... > ------------------------------------------------------ > > But my main point is the term "key ID" _is not clear_, > and should be accompanied by a concrete example. > > >> I have done this many times, >> both with a prepended "0x" and without, and all of these operations >> succeeded. >> > > If you go to pgp.mit.edu (which appears to be the point of the exercise) > and put in your ID without 0x, is it found? > > >> I've confirmed the success using wireshark to look at the >> network traffic. I think if you are having a problem -- the nature of >> which I can't tell from the information you gave -- it might be on your >> end. >> > > I'm not having a problem at all. > I'm saying that the documentation is not clear. > > > Please go to the MIT web site at http://pgp.mit.edu/ and put your own good key in and see if it finds it. if it does please put FE2353A7 in as a new key and see if it takes it. I have been trying all day without success. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From miles at brennan.id.au Sun Dec 23 22:27:22 2007 From: miles at brennan.id.au (Miles Brennan) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:27:22 +1000 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <200712221157.23116.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> <476C9ECA.1030301@brennan.id.au> <200712221157.23116.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <476EE0CA.9050500@brennan.id.au> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Saturday 22 December 2007 05:21:14 am Miles Brennan wrote: > >>> 2. Does one have to understand IPtables any more (chapter 6)? >>> I use shorewall, which seems to me to make this bit of life much easier. >>> Am I right in thinking shorewall is more or less the default Fedora >>> firewall nowadays? >> Shorewall is a graphical tool for configuring iptables (Netfilter) and >> is similar to Firestarter. Chapter 6 is constructed to "walk" a new user >> through the complexities of iptables and Linux firewalls, so they have >> an understanding of what happens at the "packet" level. Shorewall is a >> higher level GUI that configures iptables with mouse clicks. > > I take your other points. > But shorewall, at least as I use it, is not graphical at all. > It provides 2 or 3 recipes - I use "two-interfaces" - > and then it is easy to open any further ports with something like > SSH/ACCEPT loc $FW > HTTP/ACCEPT loc $FW > in the "rules" file. > (These use macro.SSH, macro,HTTP in /usr/share/shorewall . > There are 20-30 macros for all conceivable services.) > The shorewall package is an application designed to assist users in configuring iptables, in fact the structure of the files from what I have seen, mimic the iptables scripts to some extent. At the end of the day however, if shorewall makes live easier for a home user to establish a secure firewall, then theres no reason not to add it. It could be added as an extra chapter, or better suited at the end of the iptables chapter itself. Cheers, Miles -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHbuDKcSPa0xQu/fARApgtAKDDVk9G0bolPUvUax3j7kohGFnV6QCeJaIT rZ2azXaWDLS5VTXZ1JJ0/Uw= =EiC/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 22:45:27 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:45:27 -0500 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <200712232140.57720.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <1198428416.5339.147.camel@localhost.localdomain> <476E94E2.5010507@zianet.com> <200712232140.57720.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <1198449927.12113.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 21:40 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > As far as I can see, seahorse is the gnome equivalent of kgpg. > If that is so, it should be mentioned in the wiki page. The wiki page already uses these two programs as the examples for each of the GUI environments: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys "Equivalence" in this case is a subjective measure. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 23 22:56:38 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:56:38 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <200712232152.20644.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712231516.54888.gayleard@eircom.net> <1198428127.5339.141.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200712232152.20644.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <1198450598.12113.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 21:52 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Sunday 23 December 2007 04:42:07 pm Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > What for instance do the lines > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > gpg --keyserver hkp://subkeys.pgp.net --send-key KEYNAME > > > > > > For KEYNAME, substitute the key ID of your primary keypair. > > > ------------------------------------------------------ > > > actually mean? > > > Why not just give an example instead of this abstract terminology. > > > > > > Assuming the "key ID" means something like "D575F650" > > > then the advice in my experience does not work. > > > > I just performed this step on my machine again, using my key ID > > "BD113717," and the procedure worked fine. > > What precisely are you doing? > > My statements are: > > 1. It is not clear what "key ID" means. > If you google for this term, > you will find that the ID is normally prefaced with 0x. > Here for example is the entry in "PGP glossary" > ------------------------------------------------------ > To enable PGP to distinct between a username (userID) and the key ID, the > keyID is prefixed with 0x, for example 0xDD934139. ... > ------------------------------------------------------ That only applies if there is a collision between a user name and a key ID, which rarely happens in practice. The gpg command line program otherwise will find the right key. > But my main point is the term "key ID" _is not clear_, > and should be accompanied by a concrete example. > > > I have done this many times, > > both with a prepended "0x" and without, and all of these operations > > succeeded. > > If you go to pgp.mit.edu (which appears to be the point of the exercise) > and put in your ID without 0x, is it found? No, but since that's not part of the process we're documenting, does it matter in terms of our procedure? > > I've confirmed the success using wireshark to look at the > > network traffic. I think if you are having a problem -- the nature of > > which I can't tell from the information you gave -- it might be on your > > end. > > I'm not having a problem at all. > I'm saying that the documentation is not clear. I've added a short paragraph in each "creating a keypair" section to note that in most cases, using "0xNNNNNNNN" is sufficient usage. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gayleard at eircom.net Mon Dec 24 00:18:38 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:18:38 +0000 Subject: CLS problem In-Reply-To: <1198449927.12113.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476D970E.7000503@zianet.com> <200712232140.57720.gayleard@eircom.net> <1198449927.12113.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200712240018.38298.gayleard@eircom.net> On Sunday 23 December 2007 10:45:27 pm Paul W. Frields wrote: > > As far as I can see, seahorse is the gnome equivalent of kgpg. > > If that is so, it should be mentioned in the wiki page. > > The wiki page already uses these two programs as the examples for each > of the GUI environments: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys I'm sorry, that page is perfectly clear - use seahorse with Gnome, kgpg with KDE. From gayleard at eircom.net Mon Dec 24 00:25:31 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:25:31 +0000 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <476EE0CA.9050500@brennan.id.au> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712221157.23116.gayleard@eircom.net> <476EE0CA.9050500@brennan.id.au> Message-ID: <200712240025.32192.gayleard@eircom.net> On Sunday 23 December 2007 10:27:22 pm Miles Brennan wrote: > The shorewall package is an application designed to assist users in > configuring iptables, in fact the structure of the files from what I > have seen, mimic the iptables scripts to some extent. Exactly. I found it quite difficult to set up iptables directly (this was before I read your HOWTO!) and more importantly I had no confidence that my iptables gave me reasonable security. I'm not sure, as I said earlier, to what extent shorewall has become the standard way of setting up iptables. But I certainly think, if you are lazy like me, that it saves a lot of brain cells. From gayleard at eircom.net Mon Dec 24 00:07:28 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:07:28 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction: Timothy Murphy In-Reply-To: <476EDECC.5090001@zianet.com> References: <200712200141.19848.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712232152.20644.gayleard@eircom.net> <476EDECC.5090001@zianet.com> Message-ID: <200712240007.28634.gayleard@eircom.net> On Sunday 23 December 2007 10:18:52 pm Karl Larsen wrote: > Please go to the MIT web site at http://pgp.mit.edu/ and put your own > good key in and see if it finds it. if it does please put FE2353A7 in as > a new key and see if it takes it. I have been trying all day without > success. When I put in my key 0xD575F650 I get the response ------------------------------------------- Type bits /keyID Date User ID pub 1024D/D575F650 2007/12/23 Timothy Murphy ------------------------------------------- When I put in D575F650 I get ------------------------------------------- No matching keys in database ------------------------------------------- I get this with the key you gave, whether preceded by 0x or not. [Nb I disabled the key I gave earlier, as I had included a photo - which appears to be the default in pgpg - and this made the key awkwardly large.] If you actually want to register your key at pgp.mit.edu may I suggest you get an ascii version and paste it in the "Submit a key" window at pgp.mit.edu . From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 24 02:02:11 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:02:11 -0700 Subject: At last Message-ID: <476F1323.4030306@zianet.com> I followed the instructions for putting a ascii enclosed key into mit on their web site and it worked. At least it said it did. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 03:24:10 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:24:10 -0500 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <200712240025.32192.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712221157.23116.gayleard@eircom.net> <476EE0CA.9050500@brennan.id.au> <200712240025.32192.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <1198466650.8985.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 00:25 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Sunday 23 December 2007 10:27:22 pm Miles Brennan wrote: > > > The shorewall package is an application designed to assist users in > > configuring iptables, in fact the structure of the files from what I > > have seen, mimic the iptables scripts to some extent. > > Exactly. > I found it quite difficult to set up iptables directly > (this was before I read your HOWTO!) > and more importantly I had no confidence > that my iptables gave me reasonable security. > > I'm not sure, as I said earlier, > to what extent shorewall has become the standard way > of setting up iptables. > But I certainly think, if you are lazy like me, > that it saves a lot of brain cells. To whatever extent is possible, it would be good if the HOWTO used system-config-firewall, since that's the new and future tool. If you find places where s-c-fw falls short, you could file an enhancement bug or two. :-) Shorewall is in the repositories too, so you're good to go there. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 05:26:38 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:26:38 +0300 Subject: At last In-Reply-To: <476F1323.4030306@zianet.com> References: <476F1323.4030306@zianet.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712232126j678833ebj6af7ff5f9bc3d14f@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 24, 2007 5:02 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > I followed the instructions for putting a ascii enclosed key into > mit on their web site and it worked. At least it said it did. > > Karl > > -- > > Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI > Linux User > #450462 http://counter.li.org. > PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 > Karl: I haven't tested your key yet, but I'll take a leap of faith and say: Congratulations and thanks for hanging in there and working with everybody to find a solution, and, as a result, helping to improve the docs and the process of getting on board. Best Wishes, John Babich From tombo at adamantio.net Mon Dec 24 07:27:24 2007 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:27:24 +0100 Subject: Other very little fix to TQSG Message-ID: <476F5F5C.9030405@adamantio.net> In the xml file the section:
Obtaining and Translating Modules Now that you have prepared a directory structure, you can download a file to translate. Visit and select a target module. The interface will redirect you to a page for that module, such as . should be:
Obtaining and Translating Modules Now that you have prepared a directory structure, you can download a file to translate. Visit and select a target module. The interface will redirect you to a page for that module, such as . the links should point to http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module/ beccause the "submit" url cannot permit to show the files to translate... the url http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module/comps must end without / or it redirect the visitor to http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module/ content. btw, if a visitor point to http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module without the / the webserver goes in error. I try to post those problems via bugzilla but I have a problem with bugzilla too: Internal Error Bugzilla has suffered an internal error. Please save this page and send it to bugzilla-owner at redhat.com with details of what you were doing at the time this message appeared along with the full URL string from your browser location window. A legal Version was not set. -- Francesco Tombolini Key fingerprint = EDA9 7504 AA93 CEFC 5990 1356 8584 6B05 F140 5F73 http://www.adamantio.net -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 06:41:58 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 01:41:58 -0500 Subject: Other very little fix to TQSG In-Reply-To: <476F5F5C.9030405@adamantio.net> References: <476F5F5C.9030405@adamantio.net> Message-ID: <1198478518.8985.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 08:27 +0100, Francesco Tombolini wrote: > I try to post those problems via bugzilla but I have a problem with > bugzilla too: > > Internal Error > > Bugzilla has suffered an internal error. Please save this page and > send it to bugzilla-owner at redhat.com with details of what you were > doing at the time this message appeared along with the full URL string > from your browser location window. > > A legal Version was not set. Make sure you have the Version set to "devel" when you try to post a bug. Want to try it again? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tombo at adamantio.net Mon Dec 24 08:04:40 2007 From: tombo at adamantio.net (Francesco Tombolini) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 09:04:40 +0100 Subject: Other very little fix to TQSG In-Reply-To: <1198478518.8985.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476F5F5C.9030405@adamantio.net> <1198478518.8985.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <476F6818.5040009@adamantio.net> Paul W. Frields ha scritto: > On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 08:27 +0100, Francesco Tombolini wrote: > >> I try to post those problems via bugzilla but I have a problem with >> bugzilla too: >> >> Internal Error >> >> Bugzilla has suffered an internal error. Please save this page and >> send it to bugzilla-owner at redhat.com with details of what you were >> doing at the time this message appeared along with the full URL string >> from your browser location window. >> >> A legal Version was not set. >> > > Make sure you have the Version set to "devel" when you try to post a > bug. Want to try it again? > > Done :) -- Francesco Tombolini Key fingerprint = EDA9 7504 AA93 CEFC 5990 1356 8584 6B05 F140 5F73 http://www.adamantio.net From gayleard at eircom.net Mon Dec 24 12:00:40 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:00:40 +0000 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <1198466650.8985.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712240025.32192.gayleard@eircom.net> <1198466650.8985.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200712241200.40429.gayleard@eircom.net> On Monday 24 December 2007 03:24:10 am Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I'm not sure, as I said earlier, > > to what extent shorewall has become the standard way > > of setting up iptables. > > But I certainly think, if you are lazy like me, > > that it saves a lot of brain cells. > > To whatever extent is possible, it would be good if the HOWTO used > system-config-firewall, since that's the new and future tool. If you > find places where s-c-fw falls short, you could file an enhancement bug > or two. :-) Shorewall is in the repositories too, so you're good to go > there. I'll certainly look at that, but my experience of the system-config scripts (particularly system-config-printer and system-config-network) is not good. They seem to me to be simply add a layer of obfuscation which makes it harder to diagnose any problems that arise. And I certainly don't think it is any part of a HOWTO to try to improve the system. But I will look at it in due course, if I am updating the HOWTO. From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 24 12:15:11 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:15:11 -0700 Subject: At last In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712232126j678833ebj6af7ff5f9bc3d14f@mail.gmail.com> References: <476F1323.4030306@zianet.com> <9d2c731f0712232126j678833ebj6af7ff5f9bc3d14f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476FA2CF.3060804@zianet.com> John Babich wrote: > On Dec 24, 2007 5:02 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> I followed the instructions for putting a ascii enclosed key into >> mit on their web site and it worked. At least it said it did. >> >> Karl >> >> -- >> >> Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI >> Linux User >> #450462 http://counter.li.org. >> PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 >> >> > > Karl: > > I haven't tested your key yet, but I'll take a leap of faith and say: > > Congratulations > > and thanks for hanging in there and working with everybody to find a > solution, and, as a > result, helping to improve the docs and the process of getting on board. > > Best Wishes, > > John Babich > > Take nothing on faith :-) But I did find out what a ascii enclosed file is and a sample should be in the instructions. I was not aware it is 15 lines of code. I was putting in the 8 bit short ID and the web page barfed. Here is what I would like to see in the join instructions. -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) mQGiBEdujCIRBACPBiDeezDnWTWjUV7Scz23tXMYZ7Sa4AAz8aNBRRMCYd65T5ka jng2wTpSCrOSoAYfq6B4dk/vt6AKp+buOzxrUAXMqGBIdmMob8WcywuR8pxy4IWa WNlZBjknzfh3L0AgBGebyexsjiK2DLsGLJkmYbhdcfENXSQ62omJoKa1ewCghQZw FVL/XLxq4/IHBQZMj2LKMMUD/RSPhwmJny120Sr9xJOV04cnQcv9wQtFgoYzGTBz tkjGmDHCLobDR511nwx6EAfUtaxjF0ed08A135xL5Vu/ab8tvyiCSq2wksEVeiyF wV3NJVNPr8fBzQm7da2tdloNWqG+SZb9n+Kt0RY31Z5RLW5r85vzyZKDpATPysCs oPiXA/0e3wt71MBmuVoHTswfcxbjLoBbfvEpoKHGqBDqZe//rM1jiDQSLMHbHc41 IzwnmN9Oha40coNMrF6NwHyANFMmz0EwkmDTPPp7SwOHhqfYAsv+aSAVD8Mz80cr CISqAWK9jRmx+fsMrKeKAiv0U1LDpAnrKcYZRMfQewDTA5Sne7Q2S2FybCBMYXJz ZW4gKFRoaXMgaXMgZm9yIEZlZG9yYSBEb2MpIDxrNWRpQHppYW5ldC5jb20+iGYE ExECACYFAkdujCICGwMFCQHhM4AGCwkIBwMCBBUCCAMEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBK PCxU/iNTpyeyAJwK4b2CD2M2rlLJ1PFTQglPpa9DRQCaA2r1re1lQBtsWrDh32ZW e3ovw+i5Ag0ER26MIhAIAKqXEYP24yhTepp4ohGMinm7NUn7Q32LcK8NeRHVBTwX ju9UVkot0XWuZVzYqt5jPqUukMmxV1P5iT84b9/VumVfgGdjXfsIpcaKrFjwCQ9F PeRkPOENCq3sXqT6MAKdpyG3AgtJPn3exmIAmv0dCBeWMszB/CJnfOunDO2uk/qZ 3y8dcsSXkd1lVSmqNW0qwP1wa4/7sTeqiMMKnyA5gu3GzZHYsKkGgUdAa3D5gnH7 IreMneiFhaFtc0IciPDEeFVdhjzZ/M8XuN20gNrj6INbwYEbM7B05/4rvXqMApW0 LBhnNSv3Z8gjshajhduMyVppZi0Fmc/i2TLWSfBx8qcABA0H/RNmiZEAzr+icvFa 0vcFcau7SiO10CxgPowxJ1X3E+jfXXKFLgHDG3zb9vzQjbQ89Tszev8IoMniwmdT B4olKNzDR+SOgCxFS/vbOsL4Elz3z+79o6hf90s2f/HRIBFWXt8AK9c3VA7kVExp BXe6IR/P1xy5bpKQknn9qwyIDYbFo2iS6d6G00j0z9dBl+K0QmQg/IbuyCzQWcvE 8d9fqlVT0Q4sjSOhgiAHwWWjigRDVlBEqbuyXwaaYFc0udnF430FJhUSNUpVYtyG fPkpHty9/Mn0xYvbqZoIJfY0whhCHxOXRZ1irkvwkvLI/2fX9zbrnunVJwtzY9vB zr8bG/2ITwQYEQIADwUCR26MIgIbDAUJAeEzgAAKCRBKPCxU/iNTp0b3AJ4huAoE 9txKfqYxnzgFeof363xhggCfWTXIYjLC0zgA0IkBkda7NaFiU5k= =oz/M -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- You say that this is what you send to a server. I was surprised that the file was put in the "clipboard" by seahorse and the file was paste to the MIT web page on Firefox. This step needs some more help because you need to make sure the paste goes to the right window on the web page. -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From gayleard at eircom.net Mon Dec 24 12:53:30 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:53:30 +0000 Subject: At last In-Reply-To: <476FA2CF.3060804@zianet.com> References: <476F1323.4030306@zianet.com> <9d2c731f0712232126j678833ebj6af7ff5f9bc3d14f@mail.gmail.com> <476FA2CF.3060804@zianet.com> Message-ID: <200712241253.31059.gayleard@eircom.net> On Monday 24 December 2007 12:15:11 pm Karl Larsen wrote: > You say that this is what you send to a server. I was surprised that the > file was put in the "clipboard" by seahorse and the file was paste to > the MIT web page on Firefox. This step needs some more help because you > need to make sure the paste goes to the right window on the web page. I take it you followed my suggestion. Isn't it much easier, if you want to register a key with pgp.mit.edu to go there and follow their instructions? They seem to me perfectly clear, which is more than I can say for those in the wiki. From gayleard at eircom.net Mon Dec 24 13:01:39 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:01:39 +0000 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <200712241200.40429.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> <1198466650.8985.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200712241200.40429.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <200712241301.39590.gayleard@eircom.net> On Monday 24 December 2007 12:00:40 pm Timothy Murphy wrote: > > To whatever extent is possible, it would be good if the HOWTO used > > system-config-firewall, since that's the new and future tool. If you > > find places where s-c-fw falls short, you could file an enhancement bug > > or two. :-) Shorewall is in the repositories too, so you're good to go > > there. > > I'll certainly look at that, > but my experience of the system-config scripts > (particularly system-config-printer and system-config-network) > is not good. Also, I think Miles Brennan wanted the HOWTO to be as distribution-independent as possible, given that it does assume the reader is running Fedora. I assume that system-config-* is a RedHat speciality? From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 24 12:57:23 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 18:27:23 +0530 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <200712241301.39590.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> <1198466650.8985.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200712241200.40429.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712241301.39590.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <476FACB3.1080005@fedoraproject.org> Timothy Murphy wrote: > Also, I think Miles Brennan wanted the HOWTO to be > as distribution-independent as possible, > given that it does assume the reader is running Fedora. > I assume that system-config-* is a RedHat speciality? There isn't much Red Hat specific about it. System-config-printer is the default printer utility in the latest Ubuntu release as an example. Besides it is pretty ok for any Fedora documentation to assume that the user is running Fedora. Rahul From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 24 13:26:59 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 06:26:59 -0700 Subject: At last In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712232126j678833ebj6af7ff5f9bc3d14f@mail.gmail.com> References: <476F1323.4030306@zianet.com> <9d2c731f0712232126j678833ebj6af7ff5f9bc3d14f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <476FB3A3.4080901@zianet.com> I wanted to test the key I put in pgpMIT so using seahorse I find that "Find Remote Keys" will go out on the Internet and try to match and get key data for the key ID you give it from the remote sites. There are two listed. I looked for my new key but it was not to be found. I tried some other peoples key and they could not be found either. I have found my own this way in weeks past. Why is it not working now? I am an Electrical Engineer and I can visualize what pgpMIT must have in a hardware sense. For sure it has a computer with a database which is backed up very well to other computers at MIT. The problem is some hardware that was hand made or perhaps software written on another computer that can be reached by the Internet. It has to have handshake system that takes data at unknown speed and stores it for a short time. It has to have logic that knows what the input must be, and when it is done. Also it checks the data it saved and if it passes it tells the sender it is done. Another program is needed to also listen to the Internet for a person wanting to check/get the public key of someone. This data is shorter like 8 bytes and can be selected in that way. There are problems however with selecting a path based on data length alone. In any case this data is sent to the main computer database and the proper data withdrawn and sent to the remote computer connected to it. There is a rats-nest of loops in such a device and I bet it fails a lot of the time. It gets a lot of garbled data input from the world and that does the trick. At this moment I can't reach this server with my seahorse and I know at least in concept why. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From R.Boussen at audax.nl Mon Dec 24 13:29:31 2007 From: R.Boussen at audax.nl (Roger Boussen/audax) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:29:31 +0100 Subject: Roger Boussen/oper/ai/gi/audax is afwezig. Message-ID: Ik ben niet aanwezig vanaf 24-12-2007 en kom terug op 02-01-2008. Ik antwoord op uw bericht wanneer ik terug ben. From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 24 20:37:28 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:37:28 -0700 Subject: pgp-MIT status Message-ID: <47701888.10701@zianet.com> Well, http://pgp.mit.edu/ is now working at 2027Z on Dec 24 2007. I wanted to "extract data" so read the help and it said if your using a Hex ID you must precide the number with zero and then x (0x) When I did this for Adam Cooper's key ID it worked after a long delay reading the database I suspect. Then I put in my new key ID and in a long delay it was FOUND! So my data is in that server. For fun I selected a verbose out put including my finger and started the search. This what it sent me: Type bits /keyID Date User ID pub 1024D/FE2353A7 2007/12/23 Karl Larsen (This is for Fedora Doc) Key fingerprint = 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 sig FE2353A7 Karl Larsen (This is for Fedora Doc) So I am certain that I am in this server but over the Internet I can't get this yet. I try for it with seahorse but it just can't do it. Expect there is one guy working at MIT today... Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From gayleard at eircom.net Mon Dec 24 20:53:01 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:53:01 +0000 Subject: At last In-Reply-To: <476FB3A3.4080901@zianet.com> References: <476F1323.4030306@zianet.com> <9d2c731f0712232126j678833ebj6af7ff5f9bc3d14f@mail.gmail.com> <476FB3A3.4080901@zianet.com> Message-ID: <200712242053.01730.gayleard@eircom.net> On Monday 24 December 2007 01:26:59 pm Karl Larsen wrote: > I wanted to test the key I put in pgpMIT so using seahorse I find > that "Find Remote Keys" will go out on the Internet and try to match and > get key data for the key ID you give it from the remote sites. There are > two listed. > > I looked for my new key but it was not to be found. I tried some > other peoples key and they could not be found either. I have found my > own this way in weeks past. Sigh. Why use seahorse? Which is more likely, in your view, that there is something wrong with seahorse or that there is something wrong with pgp.mit.edu ? From gayleard at eircom.net Mon Dec 24 20:57:48 2007 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:57:48 +0000 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <476FACB3.1080005@fedoraproject.org> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712241301.39590.gayleard@eircom.net> <476FACB3.1080005@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <200712242057.48347.gayleard@eircom.net> On Monday 24 December 2007 12:57:23 pm Rahul Sundaram wrote: > There isn't much Red Hat specific about it. System-config-printer is the > default printer utility in the latest Ubuntu release as an example. Ok, I didn't see them on the live Kubuntu CD when I ran it recently, but I probably didn't look in the right place. > Besides it is pretty ok for any Fedora documentation to assume that the > user is running Fedora. Of course. But it is also OK for the author to want the HOWTO to be valuable to non-Fedora users, if that can be done without sacrifice. From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 24 21:11:11 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:11:11 -0700 Subject: CLA Message-ID: <4770206F.5090105@zianet.com> Do I need to say more? Your signed Fedora Contributor License Agreement titled "Re: Fedora Individual Contributor License Agreement" was processed successfully. You can now contribute to the Fedora Project. If you intend to work with a specific Fedora project, you may need to join additional groups in the Account System. For more information, please see the following page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem Thank you for joining our team! -- The Fedora Project -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 24 21:26:46 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:26:46 -0700 Subject: I am in Message-ID: <47702416.8040606@zianet.com> Well now that is over. I need to put my key in a safe place that will be a 1 gb Kinston pocket device. After a while the problems of wiki navigation and other things I can now do will be explored. I would like a chance to add to the Join wiki with some things I have learned about how the gpg key system works. It will make it longer but the goal is make it more clear what you need to do. Without this you do not know how the key system works. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 22:53:25 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 01:53:25 +0300 Subject: pgp-MIT status In-Reply-To: <47701888.10701@zianet.com> References: <47701888.10701@zianet.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712241453p2510dd56oa103901f909a2f67@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 24, 2007 11:37 PM, Karl Larsen wrote: > > Well, http://pgp.mit.edu/ is now working at 2027Z on Dec 24 2007. I > wanted to "extract data" so read the help and it said if your using a > Hex ID you must precide the number with zero and then x (0x) > > When I did this for Adam Cooper's key ID it worked after a long > delay reading the database I suspect. Then I put in my new key ID and in > a long delay it was FOUND! So my data is in that server. For fun I > selected a verbose out put including my finger and started the search. > This what it sent me: > > Type bits /keyID Date User ID > pub 1024D/FE2353A7 2007/12/23 Karl Larsen (This is for Fedora Doc) > > Key fingerprint = 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 > sig FE2353A7 Karl Larsen (This is for Fedora Doc) > > > So I am certain that I am in this server but over the Internet I > can't get this yet. I try for it with seahorse but it just can't do it. > > Expect there is one guy working at MIT today... > Now I can say with scientific accuracy, congratulations! Best Wishes, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 22:54:56 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 01:54:56 +0300 Subject: CLA In-Reply-To: <4770206F.5090105@zianet.com> References: <4770206F.5090105@zianet.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712241454n59db211fg592c6c068bd81834@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 25, 2007 12:11 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > Do I need to say more? > > Your signed Fedora Contributor License Agreement titled "Re: Fedora Individual Contributor License Agreement" > was processed successfully. > > You can now contribute to the Fedora Project. If you intend to work with a > specific Fedora project, you may need to join additional groups in the > Account System. > > For more information, please see the following page: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/AccountSystem > > Thank you for joining our team! > > -- The Fedora Project Well, now it's official. :-) BR, John Babich From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Dec 24 22:56:16 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 01:56:16 +0300 Subject: I am in In-Reply-To: <47702416.8040606@zianet.com> References: <47702416.8040606@zianet.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712241456v2663b0dfg9e2847aecccb603c@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 25, 2007 12:26 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > Well now that is over. I need to put my key in a safe place that > will be a 1 gb Kinston pocket device. > > After a while the problems of wiki navigation and other things I can > now do will be explored. I would like a chance to add to the Join wiki > with some things I have learned about how the gpg key system works. It > will make it longer but the goal is make it more clear what you need to > do. Without this you do not know how the key system works. > > Karl > I appreciate you wanting others to benefit form your experience. BR, John Babich From k5di at zianet.com Mon Dec 24 23:02:43 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:02:43 -0700 Subject: pgp-MIT status In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712241453p2510dd56oa103901f909a2f67@mail.gmail.com> References: <47701888.10701@zianet.com> <9d2c731f0712241453p2510dd56oa103901f909a2f67@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47703A93.5050309@zianet.com> John Babich wrote: > On Dec 24, 2007 11:37 PM, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Well, http://pgp.mit.edu/ is now working at 2027Z on Dec 24 2007. I >> wanted to "extract data" so read the help and it said if your using a >> Hex ID you must precide the number with zero and then x (0x) >> >> When I did this for Adam Cooper's key ID it worked after a long >> delay reading the database I suspect. Then I put in my new key ID and in >> a long delay it was FOUND! So my data is in that server. For fun I >> selected a verbose out put including my finger and started the search. >> This what it sent me: >> >> Type bits /keyID Date User ID >> pub 1024D/FE2353A7 2007/12/23 Karl Larsen (This is for Fedora Doc) >> >> Key fingerprint = 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 >> sig FE2353A7 Karl Larsen (This is for Fedora Doc) >> >> >> So I am certain that I am in this server but over the Internet I >> can't get this yet. I try for it with seahorse but it just can't do it. >> >> Expect there is one guy working at MIT today... >> >> > > Now I can say with scientific accuracy, congratulations! > > Best Wishes, > > John Babich > Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project > > Same to you and hope Christmas is the best for you and yours. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Dec 25 10:06:31 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:36:31 +0530 Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <200712242057.48347.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712241301.39590.gayleard@eircom.net> <476FACB3.1080005@fedoraproject.org> <200712242057.48347.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <4770D627.8050602@fedoraproject.org> Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Monday 24 December 2007 12:57:23 pm Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> There isn't much Red Hat specific about it. System-config-printer is the >> default printer utility in the latest Ubuntu release as an example. > > Ok, I didn't see them on the live Kubuntu CD when I ran it recently, > but I probably didn't look in the right place. It probably isn't default there. Kubuntu usually plays catch up to Ubuntu (with GNOME as default) the way things are developed. >> Besides it is pretty ok for any Fedora documentation to assume that the >> user is running Fedora. > > Of course. > But it is also OK for the author to want the HOWTO to be valuable > to non-Fedora users, if that can be done without sacrifice. One of the reasons why we go through the licensing checks is to ensure that the content itself remains open for derivatives of forks. Rahul From k5di at zianet.com Tue Dec 25 16:46:43 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 09:46:43 -0700 Subject: pgp-MIT status In-Reply-To: <47703A93.5050309@zianet.com> References: <47701888.10701@zianet.com> <9d2c731f0712241453p2510dd56oa103901f909a2f67@mail.gmail.com> <47703A93.5050309@zianet.com> Message-ID: <477133F3.8010809@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > John Babich wrote: >> On Dec 24, 2007 11:37 PM, Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> Well, http://pgp.mit.edu/ is now working at 2027Z on Dec 24 2007. I >>> wanted to "extract data" so read the help and it said if your using a >>> Hex ID you must precide the number with zero and then x (0x) >>> >>> When I did this for Adam Cooper's key ID it worked after a long >>> delay reading the database I suspect. Then I put in my new key ID >>> and in >>> a long delay it was FOUND! So my data is in that server. For fun I >>> selected a verbose out put including my finger and started the search. >>> This what it sent me: >>> >>> Type bits /keyID Date User ID >>> pub 1024D/FE2353A7 2007/12/23 Karl Larsen (This is for Fedora Doc) >>> >>> Key fingerprint = 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 >>> 53A7 >>> sig FE2353A7 Karl Larsen (This is for Fedora Doc) >>> >>> >>> So I am certain that I am in this server but over the Internet I >>> can't get this yet. I try for it with seahorse but it just can't do it. >>> >>> Expect there is one guy working at MIT today... >>> >>> >> >> Now I can say with scientific accuracy, congratulations! >> >> Best Wishes, >> >> John Babich >> Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project >> >> > Same to you and hope Christmas is the best for you and yours. > > Karl > > On Chrismas day the server is again not working properly. I guess it is ols stuff :-) Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Wed Dec 26 15:26:50 2007 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 10:26:50 -0500 (EST) Subject: documenting all the available spins Message-ID: just an observation: the available fedora spins listed here: http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ don't mention the additional (admittedly tentative) spins mentioned here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CustomSpins not sure if that's deliberate or not. in addition, given that there is a relatively new f8 live developer release, is there any compelling reason to continue to list the (older) F8t3 version of the same spin? (one could ask the same question about the FEL spin as well, i guess.) rday ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA http://crashcourse.ca ======================================================================== From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Dec 26 15:28:45 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:58:45 +0530 Subject: documenting all the available spins In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4772732D.5020504@fedoraproject.org> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > just an observation: the available fedora spins listed here: > > http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > > don't mention the additional (admittedly tentative) spins mentioned > here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CustomSpins > > not sure if that's deliberate or not. That is deliberate. Spins.fp.o only holds the actual downloadable spins at this point. > in addition, given that there is a relatively new f8 live developer > release, is there any compelling reason to continue to list the > (older) F8t3 version of the same spin? (one could ask the same > question about the FEL spin as well, i guess.) This is actually a infrastructure question. CC'ing Mike Mccgrath. Rahul From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Wed Dec 26 16:18:25 2007 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 11:18:25 -0500 (EST) Subject: random observations on the F8 release notes Message-ID: (since i'm perusing those notes, might as well comment on them.) http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Installer.html "After you complete the mediacheck function successfully, reboot to return DMA mode to its normal state." - but there's no mention of DMA before this point, so this is probably going to confuse readers who will wonder what they should have done that's related to DMA before now. "Use of /dev/hdX is deprecated on i386 and x86_64 for IDE drives, and has changed to /dev/sdX except on PPC." - that doesn't seem to be the proper use of "deprecated," which normally suggests a choice. wouldn't it be more correct to say that that notation has simply changed? http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Live.html "There are four Live images available for Fedora 8." - the list given there doesn't quite seem to match the available spins listed at http://spins.fedoraproject.org/. (games is not listed, and the KDE spins are for only F8t3, not F8.) "To do this, install the livecd-tools package from the development repository." - livecd-tools is not in the dev repo, it's in fedora. that's all for now. rday ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA http://crashcourse.ca ======================================================================== From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Dec 26 16:23:18 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:53:18 +0530 Subject: random observations on the F8 release notes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47727FF6.2070901@fedoraproject.org> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > (since i'm perusing those notes, might as well comment on them.) > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Installer.html > > "After you complete the mediacheck function successfully, reboot to > return DMA mode to its normal state." > > - but there's no mention of DMA before this point, so this is probably > going to confuse readers who will wonder what they should have done > that's related to DMA before now. Adjusted the sentence at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Installer and dropped the info about different modes. > "Use of /dev/hdX is deprecated on i386 and x86_64 for IDE drives, and > has changed to /dev/sdX except on PPC." > > - that doesn't seem to be the proper use of "deprecated," which > normally suggests a choice. wouldn't it be more correct to say that > that notation has simply changed? Fixed. > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Live.html > > "There are four Live images available for Fedora 8." > > - the list given there doesn't quite seem to match the available spins > listed at http://spins.fedoraproject.org/. (games is not listed, and > the KDE spins are for only F8t3, not F8.) Long story, short. This was correct in the time of writing the release notes but changed since my games spin got approved late. I have fixed this now in the overview. The live page information was already fixed in the wiki. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/OverView http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Live > "To do this, install the livecd-tools package from the development > repository." > > - livecd-tools is not in the dev repo, it's in fedora. Already fixed in the wiki. Thanks for the feedback. Rahul From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Wed Dec 26 17:47:44 2007 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:47:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: more observations on F8 release notes Message-ID: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-PackageNotes.html "The cryptsetup-luks package has been renamed to cryptsetup." - not that i can see -- it still seems to be cryptsetup-luks. the *command* is cryptsetup, though. rday ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA http://crashcourse.ca ======================================================================== From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Dec 26 17:47:25 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 23:17:25 +0530 Subject: more observations on F8 release notes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <477293AD.7020002@fedoraproject.org> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-PackageNotes.html > > "The cryptsetup-luks package has been renamed to cryptsetup." > > - not that i can see -- it still seems to be cryptsetup-luks. the > *command* is cryptsetup, though. Right but this section will entirely change between releases. So changes are not necessary now. Rahul From dan at new2linux.com Wed Dec 26 20:23:08 2007 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:23:08 -0500 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Dan O'Brien wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> It's been a busy couple weeks and I haven't had much time to get much >> work done on the DUG. I'm going on a business trip for a couple days and >> had planned on spending the weekend catching up on the DUG. IIRC there >> was talk of having the DUG complete by sometime next week? What needs to >> be done? >> >> Regards, >> Dan O'Brien >> >> > Hi Dan, > > Thats my fault I was supposed to be working on it this whole week but > my son's been sick since last Friday and he's only just gone to day > care today. I found some issues with the [1] xfce desktop which I'll > fix tonight. Other things that need to be added if I remember was > screenshots for kde? [2] > > Communications section [3] some information about getting compiz > working though I see issues since the only opensource driver that > works currently is the intel one. > > Some wireless, vpn and NetworkManager info[4], Kmymoney [5] and > Multimedia should have and ipod howto since we are allowed to ship it > should also have the steps to get mp3's using the links provided > within the distribution. (I need feedback on this) > > I think if all those can be fixed today and I'll endeavor to work my > way down the list if you want to work up the list we can have another > look at it on the list to see what else people think needs to be added. > > > > Regards, > > Marc > > 1: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/XfceDesktop > 2: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/KdeDesktop > 3: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Communications > 4: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringInternet > > 5: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Financial > All, Well i had intended to get some work done on the dug this past weekend, but thanks to the lovely people at my ISP my internet connection has been up and down since Saturday morning and no one seems to know when it will be back up. Is there any other way I can get the content of the dug locally on my laptop (without installing Moin), then I can edit it locally and post it when i get to work? Regards, Dan O'Brien From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Dec 26 20:35:43 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 02:05:43 +0530 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> Dan O'Brien wrote: > Well i had intended to get some work done on the dug this past weekend, > but thanks to the lovely people at my ISP my internet connection has > been up and down since Saturday morning and no one seems to know when it > will be back up. Is there any other way I can get the content of the dug > locally on my laptop (without installing Moin), then I can edit it > locally and post it when i get to work? This isn't possible yet but MoinMoin 1.6 just got released and it has support for offline editing and sync back. Infrastructure team is currently evaluating updating the Fedora instance to this version. http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinRelease1.6 https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2007-December/msg00119.html Rahul From dan at new2linux.com Wed Dec 26 20:45:48 2007 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 15:45:48 -0500 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Dan O'Brien wrote: > >> Well i had intended to get some work done on the dug this past weekend, >> but thanks to the lovely people at my ISP my internet connection has >> been up and down since Saturday morning and no one seems to know when it >> will be back up. Is there any other way I can get the content of the dug >> locally on my laptop (without installing Moin), then I can edit it >> locally and post it when i get to work? > > This isn't possible yet but MoinMoin 1.6 just got released and it has > support for offline editing and sync back. Infrastructure team is > currently evaluating updating the Fedora instance to this version. > > http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinRelease1.6 > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2007-December/msg00119.html > > > Rahul > bah. ok, well hopefully everything will be back up and running today or tomorrow. From stickster at gmail.com Thu Dec 27 02:01:40 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:01:40 -0500 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 15:45 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > >> Well i had intended to get some work done on the dug this past weekend, > >> but thanks to the lovely people at my ISP my internet connection has > >> been up and down since Saturday morning and no one seems to know when it > >> will be back up. Is there any other way I can get the content of the dug > >> locally on my laptop (without installing Moin), then I can edit it > >> locally and post it when i get to work? > > > > This isn't possible yet but MoinMoin 1.6 just got released and it has > > support for offline editing and sync back. Infrastructure team is > > currently evaluating updating the Fedora instance to this version. > > > > http://moinmo.in/MoinMoinRelease1.6 > > > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2007-December/msg00119.html > > > bah. ok, well hopefully everything will be back up and running today or > tomorrow. CVS/$SCM: +1, Wiki: 0. ;-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From huzaifas at redhat.com Thu Dec 27 02:06:40 2007 From: huzaifas at redhat.com (Huzaifa Sidhpurwala) Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:36:40 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction - Huzaifa Sidhpurwala Message-ID: <477308B0.2010607@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi All, My name is Huzaifa, I am currently working in Red Hat in the Help Desk, I am doing some contribution to the fedora laptop project. Along the same lines i would like to start contributing to the documentation project as well. Any idea where i can start with, or what doc i help draft/edit etc. - -- Regards, Huzaifa Sidhpurwala, RHCE, CCNA (IRC: huzaifas) GnuPG Fingerprint: 3A0F DAFB 9279 02ED 273B FFE9 CC70 DCF2 DA5B DAE5 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHcwiwzHDc8tpb2uURAn05AJ4/VkO+QQy4fSxFZr1ySAkPO4xfPACfafge 3dJYUDZXxWXCFeRqeD5XNS4= =Lf4F -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 28 03:22:22 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 12:22:22 +0900 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1198812142.31625.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Just a quick update on the wifi guide and all of that. I'm looking to put a list of cards that are supported however I don't know which cards are supported. I've contacted Bill and he replied to contact John Linville which I have done but I'm assuming he's out of the office/holidays and I'm waiting for that list. I'm assuming next week he'll be back or the week after so I will update that page when I get the confirmed information. The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we should provide a guide on how to use the b43-cutter program? The cutter program is supported but the drivers are proprietary therefore in order to provide a guide I would have to point them to the proprietary websites. Would love some feedback on that last issue. Cheers, Marc From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Dec 28 12:55:53 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 15:55:53 +0300 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1198812142.31625.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198812142.31625.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712280455o1a83b8ddgc89bdb7aefd9859f@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 28, 2007 6:22 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > Just a quick update on the wifi guide and all of that. > I'm looking to put a list of cards that are supported however > I don't know which cards are supported. > > I've contacted Bill and he replied to contact John Linville > which I have done but I'm assuming he's out of the > office/holidays and I'm waiting for that list. I'm assuming > next week he'll be back or the week after so I will update that > page when I get the confirmed information. > > The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we should > provide a guide on how to use the b43-cutter program? The cutter > program is supported but the drivers are proprietary therefore > in order to provide a guide I would have to point them to the > proprietary websites. > As you may know,. wifi connectivity is getting better, with more unencumbered wifi drivers. At the same time, there are some manufacturers, such as Boardcom, who won't release open-sourced drivers and no one has yet reverse-engineered one. There are two ways to use proprietary Windows drivers with Linux: ndiswrapper and b43-cutter. Both require the use of encumbered binaries It is no secret that the Fedora Project does not condone the use of encumbered binaries, as this is against the spirit and practice of promoting FOSS software and practices. Official Fedora docs should not contain directions on how to do this. Of course, the tools are there and there's always the repository-which-must-not-be-named. This repository exists because there are countries in the world where the laws are different. However, Red Hat, incorporated in the US, is subject to US laws. This is both for well-documented legal and practical reasons at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems. Of course, codeina is another story, even if controversial. It's already documented at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/Codeina. We may want to link to this page or incorporate it directly into the DUG. > Would love some feedback on that last issue. You just got it :-) Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 28 13:38:35 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:38:35 +0900 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712280455o1a83b8ddgc89bdb7aefd9859f@mail.gmail.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198812142.31625.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0712280455o1a83b8ddgc89bdb7aefd9859f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1198849115.31625.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 15:55 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On Dec 28, 2007 6:22 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > > > Just a quick update on the wifi guide and all of that. > > I'm looking to put a list of cards that are supported however > > I don't know which cards are supported. > > > > I've contacted Bill and he replied to contact John Linville > > which I have done but I'm assuming he's out of the > > office/holidays and I'm waiting for that list. I'm assuming > > next week he'll be back or the week after so I will update that > > page when I get the confirmed information. > > > > The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we should > > provide a guide on how to use the b43-cutter program? The cutter > > program is supported but the drivers are proprietary therefore > > in order to provide a guide I would have to point them to the > > proprietary websites. > > > > As you may know,. wifi connectivity is getting better, with more > unencumbered wifi drivers. At the same time, there are some > manufacturers, such as Boardcom, who won't release open-sourced > drivers and no one has yet reverse-engineered one. > > There are two ways to use proprietary Windows drivers with Linux: > ndiswrapper and b43-cutter. Both require the use of encumbered > binaries > > It is no secret that the Fedora Project does not condone the use of > encumbered binaries, as this is against the spirit and practice of > promoting FOSS software and practices. Official Fedora docs should not > contain directions on how to do this. Of course, the tools are there > and there's always the repository-which-must-not-be-named. This > repository exists because there are countries in the world where the > laws are different. However, Red Hat, incorporated in the US, is > subject to US laws. > > This is both for well-documented legal and practical reasons at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems. > > Of course, codeina is another story, even if controversial. It's > already documented at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/Codeina. We may want to link > to this page or incorporate it directly into the DUG. > > > Would love some feedback on that last issue. > > You just got it :-) > > Best Regards, > > John Babich > Volunteer, Fedora Project > No disagreements with what you have said my question relates to the fact that b43-cutter is shipped with Fedora itself. I would only be pointing out what is already in the readme and what is given with the package itself which Fedora ships. Thats why I'm confused by the situation since Fedora ships b43-cutter which has as it's sole purpose the steps for installing proprietary or closed source software. I'll quote from the description of the package. This package contains the 'b43-fwcutter' tool which is used to extract firmware for the Broadcom network devices. See the README.Fedora file shipped in the package's documentation for instructions on using this tool. Cheers, Marc From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Fri Dec 28 13:47:59 2007 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 08:47:59 -0500 (EST) Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1198849115.31625.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198812142.31625.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0712280455o1a83b8ddgc89bdb7aefd9859f@mail.gmail.com> <1198849115.31625.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Dec 2007, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: ... snip ... > No disagreements with what you have said my question relates to the fact > that b43-cutter is shipped with Fedora itself. I would only be pointing > out what is already in the readme and what is given with the package > itself which Fedora ships. ... snip ... just FYI, http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Broadcom_wireless_on_Fedora_8 rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA http://crashcourse.ca ======================================================================== From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 28 13:39:07 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:09:07 +0530 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1198849115.31625.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198812142.31625.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0712280455o1a83b8ddgc89bdb7aefd9859f@mail.gmail.com> <1198849115.31625.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4774FC7B.1020709@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 15:55 +0300, John Babich wrote: >> On Dec 28, 2007 6:22 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>> >>> >>> Just a quick update on the wifi guide and all of that. >>> I'm looking to put a list of cards that are supported however >>> I don't know which cards are supported. >>> >>> I've contacted Bill and he replied to contact John Linville >>> which I have done but I'm assuming he's out of the >>> office/holidays and I'm waiting for that list. I'm assuming >>> next week he'll be back or the week after so I will update that >>> page when I get the confirmed information. >>> >>> The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we should >>> provide a guide on how to use the b43-cutter program? The cutter >>> program is supported but the drivers are proprietary therefore >>> in order to provide a guide I would have to point them to the >>> proprietary websites. >>> >> As you may know,. wifi connectivity is getting better, with more >> unencumbered wifi drivers. At the same time, there are some >> manufacturers, such as Boardcom, who won't release open-sourced >> drivers and no one has yet reverse-engineered one. >> >> There are two ways to use proprietary Windows drivers with Linux: >> ndiswrapper and b43-cutter. Both require the use of encumbered >> binaries >> >> It is no secret that the Fedora Project does not condone the use of >> encumbered binaries, as this is against the spirit and practice of >> promoting FOSS software and practices. Official Fedora docs should not >> contain directions on how to do this. Of course, the tools are there >> and there's always the repository-which-must-not-be-named. This >> repository exists because there are countries in the world where the >> laws are different. However, Red Hat, incorporated in the US, is >> subject to US laws. >> >> This is both for well-documented legal and practical reasons at >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems. >> >> Of course, codeina is another story, even if controversial. It's >> already documented at >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/Codeina. We may want to link >> to this page or incorporate it directly into the DUG. >> >>> Would love some feedback on that last issue. >> You just got it :-) >> >> Best Regards, >> >> John Babich >> Volunteer, Fedora Project >> > > No disagreements with what you have said my question relates to the fact > that b43-cutter is shipped with Fedora itself. I would only be pointing > out what is already in the readme and what is given with the package > itself which Fedora ships. > > Thats why I'm confused by the situation since Fedora ships b43-cutter > which has as it's sole purpose the steps for installing proprietary or > closed source software. Firmware, not software and we do have a exception for shipping firmware as long as they are redistributable. As long as the software itself is Free and open source, there is no judging it by what it is going to be used for. Wine for example, falls under the same class. Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 28 13:51:09 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:51:09 +0900 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198812142.31625.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0712280455o1a83b8ddgc89bdb7aefd9859f@mail.gmail.com> <1198849115.31625.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1198849869.31625.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 08:47 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Fri, 28 Dec 2007, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > ... snip ... > > > No disagreements with what you have said my question relates to the fact > > that b43-cutter is shipped with Fedora itself. I would only be pointing > > out what is already in the readme and what is given with the package > > itself which Fedora ships. > > ... snip ... > > just FYI, > > http://www.crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Broadcom_wireless_on_Fedora_8 > > rday > -- > ======================================================================== > Robert P. J. Day > Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry > Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA > > http://crashcourse.ca > ======================================================================== > I'm not sure what the link is for since I know how to install it. My question relates whether I should document it and what the stance of the Fedora docs project is towards this. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 28 13:53:39 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 22:53:39 +0900 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <4774FC7B.1020709@fedoraproject.org> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198812142.31625.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0712280455o1a83b8ddgc89bdb7aefd9859f@mail.gmail.com> <1198849115.31625.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4774FC7B.1020709@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1198850019.31625.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 19:09 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 15:55 +0300, John Babich wrote: > >> On Dec 28, 2007 6:22 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Just a quick update on the wifi guide and all of that. > >>> I'm looking to put a list of cards that are supported however > >>> I don't know which cards are supported. > >>> > >>> I've contacted Bill and he replied to contact John Linville > >>> which I have done but I'm assuming he's out of the > >>> office/holidays and I'm waiting for that list. I'm assuming > >>> next week he'll be back or the week after so I will update that > >>> page when I get the confirmed information. > >>> > >>> The other thing that I'm wondering about is whether we should > >>> provide a guide on how to use the b43-cutter program? The cutter > >>> program is supported but the drivers are proprietary therefore > >>> in order to provide a guide I would have to point them to the > >>> proprietary websites. > >>> > >> As you may know,. wifi connectivity is getting better, with more > >> unencumbered wifi drivers. At the same time, there are some > >> manufacturers, such as Boardcom, who won't release open-sourced > >> drivers and no one has yet reverse-engineered one. > >> > >> There are two ways to use proprietary Windows drivers with Linux: > >> ndiswrapper and b43-cutter. Both require the use of encumbered > >> binaries > >> > >> It is no secret that the Fedora Project does not condone the use of > >> encumbered binaries, as this is against the spirit and practice of > >> promoting FOSS software and practices. Official Fedora docs should not > >> contain directions on how to do this. Of course, the tools are there > >> and there's always the repository-which-must-not-be-named. This > >> repository exists because there are countries in the world where the > >> laws are different. However, Red Hat, incorporated in the US, is > >> subject to US laws. > >> > >> This is both for well-documented legal and practical reasons at > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems. > >> > >> Of course, codeina is another story, even if controversial. It's > >> already documented at > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/Codeina. We may want to link > >> to this page or incorporate it directly into the DUG. > >> > >>> Would love some feedback on that last issue. > >> You just got it :-) > >> > >> Best Regards, > >> > >> John Babich > >> Volunteer, Fedora Project > >> > > > > No disagreements with what you have said my question relates to the fact > > that b43-cutter is shipped with Fedora itself. I would only be pointing > > out what is already in the readme and what is given with the package > > itself which Fedora ships. > > > > Thats why I'm confused by the situation since Fedora ships b43-cutter > > which has as it's sole purpose the steps for installing proprietary or > > closed source software. > > Firmware, not software and we do have a exception for shipping firmware > as long as they are redistributable. As long as the software itself is > Free and open source, there is no judging it by what it is going to be > used for. Wine for example, falls under the same class. > > Rahul > Does that mean it can be documented or not? Either or doesn't bother me I would like to know since obviously it's a waste of effort if it can't be used. Sorry yes firmware and Fedora isn't shipping the firmware rather the means of installing the firmware. Does that mean with installing wine you couldn't document how to install dvdshrink? Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 28 13:55:23 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 19:25:23 +0530 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <1198850019.31625.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198812142.31625.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0712280455o1a83b8ddgc89bdb7aefd9859f@mail.gmail.com> <1198849115.31625.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4774FC7B.1020709@fedoraproject.org> <1198850019.31625.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4775004B.5000505@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Does that mean it can be documented or not? Either or doesn't bother me > I would like to know since obviously it's a waste of effort if it can't > be used. Note that the firmware itself *might* be redistributable and is waiting on legal review at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=383271. I think, you should leave out documenting it for now. If we can actually ship the firmware, the documentation would be redundant since it would just work out of the box. > Sorry yes firmware and Fedora isn't shipping the firmware rather the > means of installing the firmware. Does that mean with installing wine > you couldn't document how to install dvdshrink? You could but Fedora docs project wouldn't publish it. Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Dec 28 15:38:42 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 00:38:42 +0900 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <4775004B.5000505@fedoraproject.org> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> <4772BB1F.70106@fedoraproject.org> <4772BD7C.6090008@new2linux.com> <1198720900.17296.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198812142.31625.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0712280455o1a83b8ddgc89bdb7aefd9859f@mail.gmail.com> <1198849115.31625.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4774FC7B.1020709@fedoraproject.org> <1198850019.31625.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4775004B.5000505@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1198856322.2664.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> > > Sorry yes firmware and Fedora isn't shipping the firmware rather the > > means of installing the firmware. Does that mean with installing wine > > you couldn't document how to install dvdshrink? > > You could but Fedora docs project wouldn't publish it. > > Rahul > Thats what I mean no point in me documenting it if it isn't going to be published. Thanks for the clarification. Cheers, Marc From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Fri Dec 28 22:17:24 2007 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:17:24 -0500 (EST) Subject: more observations on fedora release notes Message-ID: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Multimedia.html "GNOME users can burn directly from the Nautilus file manager, choose the gnomebaker or graveman packages ..." - graveman? yum doesn't know anything about graveman in the standard repos. "KDE users can use the robust k3b package for these tasks ..." - you don't need to be running KDE to use k3b. but you knew that. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA http://crashcourse.ca ======================================================================== From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 28 22:32:01 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 28 Dec 2007 17:32:01 -0500 Subject: more observations on fedora release notes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1198881121.32577.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 17:17 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Multimedia.html > > "GNOME users can burn directly from the Nautilus file manager, choose > the gnomebaker or graveman packages ..." > > - graveman? yum doesn't know anything about graveman in the standard > repos. > > "KDE users can use the robust k3b package for these tasks ..." > > - you don't need to be running KDE to use k3b. but you knew that. The release notes source material is on the Fedora wiki, and you're invited to fix problems directly in the appropriate "beat" page for that content: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Multimedia The update that will be out shortly will probably not include this fix -- due to the lead time for translation -- but we can always do a later one that does. I guess I would eliminate all these desktop-specific blurbs and simply name a few popular available packages. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Dec 28 22:36:32 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:06:32 +0530 Subject: more observations on fedora release notes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <47757A70.2030802@fedoraproject.org> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Multimedia.html > > "GNOME users can burn directly from the Nautilus file manager, choose > the gnomebaker or graveman packages ..." > > - graveman? yum doesn't know anything about graveman in the standard > repos. > > "KDE users can use the robust k3b package for these tasks ..." > > - you don't need to be running KDE to use k3b. but you knew that. > Fixed these and the command line equivalents since cdrecord has been replaced by wodim http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Multimedia Rahul From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 08:08:02 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 11:08:02 +0300 Subject: News of the Election Results Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712290008v40a5d181y5aa6474000254593@mail.gmail.com> Fedora Docs Steering Committee Members: What are the results of the recent FDSCo election? I would like to publish them in the FWN for this week. Best Regards, John Babich FWN Beat Writer, Fedora Docs Project From kwade at redhat.com Sat Dec 29 15:50:21 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 07:50:21 -0800 Subject: FDSCo results Message-ID: <1198943421.5788.17.camel@erato.phig.org> With a slight delay for the holidays to get the results :), the following persons will be staying or joining the Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSCo): Bart Couvreur John Babich Jared Smith Congratulations to those chosen. All candidates are doing great work in Fedora Docs, and by virtue of that are already leaders within the project. When we next have a round of formal elections, I hope you all consider running again. We'll have our first FDSCo meeting after the new year. Members - let's work out a meeting time. To start, we need to refresh our matrix: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingTimeMatrix You can refer to the old one[1] for what you put in last time. Our goal is to pick a meeting time or two; we can alternate between then, if that works. Another option is to have two meetings a month and do more preparation and work in them. Open for discussion! Thanks - Karsten [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Sat Dec 29 17:03:40 2007 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:03:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: more observations on fedora release notes In-Reply-To: <1198881121.32577.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198881121.32577.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 28 Dec 2007, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 17:17 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Multimedia.html > > > > "GNOME users can burn directly from the Nautilus file manager, choose > > the gnomebaker or graveman packages ..." > > > > - graveman? yum doesn't know anything about graveman in the standard > > repos. > > > > "KDE users can use the robust k3b package for these tasks ..." > > > > - you don't need to be running KDE to use k3b. but you knew that. > > The release notes source material is on the Fedora wiki, and you're > invited to fix problems directly in the appropriate "beat" page for that > content: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Multimedia the problem is that i don't know *how* i would fix that content in terms of rewording. in most cases, i can only point out what appear to be inaccuracies -- i don't quite have the background to know what it *should* say. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== From stickster at gmail.com Sat Dec 29 17:31:27 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:31:27 -0500 Subject: more observations on fedora release notes In-Reply-To: References: <1198881121.32577.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1198949487.11832.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-29 at 12:03 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Fri, 28 Dec 2007, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > On Fri, 2007-12-28 at 17:17 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f8/en_US/sn-Multimedia.html > > > > > > "GNOME users can burn directly from the Nautilus file manager, choose > > > the gnomebaker or graveman packages ..." > > > > > > - graveman? yum doesn't know anything about graveman in the standard > > > repos. > > > > > > "KDE users can use the robust k3b package for these tasks ..." > > > > > > - you don't need to be running KDE to use k3b. but you knew that. > > > > The release notes source material is on the Fedora wiki, and you're > > invited to fix problems directly in the appropriate "beat" page for that > > content: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Multimedia > > the problem is that i don't know *how* i would fix that content in > terms of rewording. in most cases, i can only point out what appear > to be inaccuracies -- i don't quite have the background to know what > it *should* say. None of us have degrees in technical documentation. :-) There are probably many different ways you could fix the notes, such as: "Fedora offers a number of other disc-burning applications, such as GnomeBaker and k3b." "Users who want more disc-burning options can install programs such as k3b and GnomeBaker." "The Fedora software repositories contain many other applications for burning CDs and DVDs." The possibilities are endless! You don't even have to get it right on the first try; that's why many people have watches on the release notes beats. If something comes out written oddly, we just fix it to something that we think works better with the Fedora Style Guide. Please feel free to try your hand in the future, your contributions are welcome. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 30 02:11:07 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 18:11:07 -0800 Subject: At last In-Reply-To: <200712241253.31059.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <476F1323.4030306@zianet.com> <9d2c731f0712232126j678833ebj6af7ff5f9bc3d14f@mail.gmail.com> <476FA2CF.3060804@zianet.com> <200712241253.31059.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <1198980667.5788.56.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 12:53 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Monday 24 December 2007 12:15:11 pm Karl Larsen wrote: > > > You say that this is what you send to a server. I was surprised that the > > file was put in the "clipboard" by seahorse and the file was paste to > > the MIT web page on Firefox. This step needs some more help because you > > need to make sure the paste goes to the right window on the web page. > > I take it you followed my suggestion. > > Isn't it much easier, if you want to register a key with pgp.mit.edu > to go there and follow their instructions? > They seem to me perfectly clear, > which is more than I can say for those in the wiki. Do you have a URL for those instructions? I'd like to compare them to the refreshed content at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 30 02:16:24 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 18:16:24 -0800 Subject: DUG In-Reply-To: <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <4769C991.5050509@mwiriadi.id.au> <4772B82C.2070505@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1198980984.5788.61.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-12-26 at 15:23 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > Is there any other way I can get the content of the dug > locally on my laptop (without installing Moin), then I can edit it > locally and post it when i get to work? This is slightly different, but I use it to a similar effect. It lets you load each page from edit mode, one at a time. For an intermittent connection failure, this can let you work on content off-line in your preferred editor, saving to the temporary file. https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4125 - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jon at fedoraunity.org Sun Dec 30 02:21:49 2007 From: jon at fedoraunity.org (Jonathan Steffan) Date: Sat, 29 Dec 2007 19:21:49 -0700 Subject: Fedora Docs Platform - Roles Message-ID: <20071229192149.51f7a94e@damaestrojr> So yes. More Plone questions. Role = User class = Group membership in FAS Who are going to be our editors? Are they "gods" over content objects? Do we have multiple level of editors or do we just say "you're on the team... go edit"? Do we have multiple tiers of workflow permissions (who can move a document between states, for example) or do we just say "wow, you'll help? here are your permissions"? >From what I've taken from MikeM we will want to require special permissions for users to even be able to create content, is this another role? Do we need "workspaces" in the sense "create anything here, we can all edit it we can all see it, but the public can't"? Do we lock down plone to be super secure and do very little at first and then open it up with new releases? (Yes, this causes me a little more work making sure changes are upstream compatible but i think this concept is worth it) What is the state of LDAP queries to FAS? -- Jonathan Steffan daMaestro Fedora Unity - http://fedoraunity.org/ GPG Fingerprint: 93A2 3E2F DC26 5570 3472 5B16 AD12 6CE7 0D86 AF59 From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Dec 30 08:58:05 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 17:58:05 +0900 Subject: FDSCo results In-Reply-To: <1198943421.5788.17.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1198943421.5788.17.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1199005085.31625.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-29 at 07:50 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > With a slight delay for the holidays to get the results :), the > following persons will be staying or joining the Fedora Documentation > Steering Committee (FDSCo): > > Bart Couvreur > John Babich > Jared Smith > > Congratulations to those chosen. All candidates are doing great work in > Fedora Docs, and by virtue of that are already leaders within the > project. When we next have a round of formal elections, I hope you all > consider running again. +1 congratulations to all who have been chosen to help lead the Docs project. Cheers, Marc From k5di at zianet.com Sun Dec 30 12:24:05 2007 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 05:24:05 -0700 Subject: At last In-Reply-To: <1198980667.5788.56.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <476F1323.4030306@zianet.com> <9d2c731f0712232126j678833ebj6af7ff5f9bc3d14f@mail.gmail.com> <476FA2CF.3060804@zianet.com> <200712241253.31059.gayleard@eircom.net> <1198980667.5788.56.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47778DE5.8050102@zianet.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 12:53 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > >> On Monday 24 December 2007 12:15:11 pm Karl Larsen wrote: >> >> >>> You say that this is what you send to a server. I was surprised that the >>> file was put in the "clipboard" by seahorse and the file was paste to >>> the MIT web page on Firefox. This step needs some more help because you >>> need to make sure the paste goes to the right window on the web page. >>> >> I take it you followed my suggestion. >> >> Isn't it much easier, if you want to register a key with pgp.mit.edu >> to go there and follow their instructions? >> They seem to me perfectly clear, >> which is more than I can say for those in the wiki. >> > > Do you have a URL for those instructions? > > I'd like to compare them to the refreshed content at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg/CreatingKeys. > > - Karsten > The instructions are on the web page. They are VERY old and I really do not call them good. And you should never have to go to that page. I just checked and it has been fixed so it should work for awhile. I was sending them bug messages. When I registered and got the CLI sent back it was duck soup following the Instructions. During my earlier problem it was a broken pgp.MIT.edu that caused it all. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 12:36:57 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 15:36:57 +0300 Subject: FDSCo results In-Reply-To: <1199005085.31625.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1198943421.5788.17.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199005085.31625.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712300436i2478a625sc1eb47f565942031@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 30, 2007 11:58 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-12-29 at 07:50 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > With a slight delay for the holidays to get the results :), the > > following persons will be staying or joining the Fedora Documentation > > Steering Committee (FDSCo): > > > > Bart Couvreur > > John Babich > > Jared Smith > > > > Congratulations to those chosen. All candidates are doing great work in > > Fedora Docs, and by virtue of that are already leaders within the > > project. When we next have a round of formal elections, I hope you all > > consider running again. > > +1 congratulations to all who have been chosen to help lead the Docs > project. +1 Congratulations to Bart on your re-election and to Jared on your election. Also, thanks for re-electing me. :-) Finally, thanks to Pawel Sadowski, AKA mcgiwer, for his months of service to the cause. Thanks, mcgiwer! Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 15:42:09 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 10:42:09 -0500 Subject: Fedora Docs Platform - Roles In-Reply-To: <20071229192149.51f7a94e@damaestrojr> References: <20071229192149.51f7a94e@damaestrojr> Message-ID: <1199029329.17320.70.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-12-29 at 19:21 -0700, Jonathan Steffan wrote: > So yes. More Plone questions. Role = User class = Group membership in > FAS > > Who are going to be our editors? Are they "gods" over content objects? > > Do we have multiple level of editors or do we just say "you're on the > team... go edit"? > > Do we have multiple tiers of workflow permissions (who can move a > document between states, for example) or do we just say "wow, you'll > help? here are your permissions"? Karsten had floated around an idea at some point about the following roles: Writer - Can create and change at least their own documents Editor - Can create and change anyone's documents Publisher - Can promote documents to public Sponsor - Can give people access to one of the above roles Administrator - obvious? I was thinking that "Lead Writer" is also a good role, which differs from a Writer in that a Lead Writer can grant permission for other people to change his documents. However, this then makes me worry about the old "stomping grounds" problem, where there's a risk of people becoming proprietary about "their" work. I don't think we've really had that problem in Docs, but it's always something one should guard against in a FOSS project. > >From what I've taken from MikeM we will want to require special > permissions for users to even be able to create content, is this > another role? > > Do we need "workspaces" in the sense "create anything here, we can all > edit it we can all see it, but the public can't"? That would be a step up from the current Docs/Drafts space we have on the wiki, which is viewable by everyone. There might be some use for this, but we should also be mindful that work that happens out of the public eye in FOSS, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist. I'm not sure what the right answer is, except possibly to simply have a namespace that's not linked from anywhere but which everyone can go to if they want. (I.e. "docs.fp.o/drafts" is somewhere public but we don't link it from the front docs.fp.o page.) > Do we lock down plone to be super secure and do very little at first > and then open it up with new releases? (Yes, this causes me a little > more work making sure changes are upstream compatible but i think this > concept is worth it) I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to, whether it's site security, functionality, or what, but I think it's sometimes difficult to close up gates after they're opened, if it turns out they really should have been closed. However, I think you probably want to shift your mindset away from "causes me a little more work" and more toward thinking that as needs come up, that's an opportunity for you to school others in how that need ties into the system and how to make the changes properly. We already have learned through many hard knocks that individuals don't scale well, and we should try and spread the work (and pain) however possible. > What is the state of LDAP queries to FAS? This may be the wrong list for that question, maybe try f-websites-l? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 30 17:55:38 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 12:55:38 -0500 Subject: FDSCo results In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712300436i2478a625sc1eb47f565942031@mail.gmail.com> References: <1198943421.5788.17.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199005085.31625.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0712300436i2478a625sc1eb47f565942031@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1199037338.17320.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-12-30 at 15:36 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On Dec 30, 2007 11:58 AM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-12-29 at 07:50 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > With a slight delay for the holidays to get the results :), the > > > following persons will be staying or joining the Fedora Documentation > > > Steering Committee (FDSCo): > > > > > > Bart Couvreur > > > John Babich > > > Jared Smith > > > > > > Congratulations to those chosen. All candidates are doing great work in > > > Fedora Docs, and by virtue of that are already leaders within the > > > project. When we next have a round of formal elections, I hope you all > > > consider running again. > > > > +1 congratulations to all who have been chosen to help lead the Docs > > project. > > +1 Congratulations to Bart on your re-election and to Jared on your > election. Also, thanks for re-electing me. :-) > > Finally, thanks to Pawel Sadowski, AKA mcgiwer, for his months of > service to the cause. Thanks, mcgiwer! +1 to all above. There's much to be done and glad to see good people around to do it! :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 30 23:37:22 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:07:22 +0530 Subject: Overview rewrite Message-ID: <47782BB2.8010704@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Finally did a quick rewrite of the overview page that I have been wanting to do for a while now. Appreciate a review and additional content. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview Rahul From tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie Mon Dec 31 00:58:08 2007 From: tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 01:58:08 +0100 Subject: Overview rewrite References: <47782BB2.8010704@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Finally did a quick rewrite of the overview page that I have been > wanting to do for a while now. Appreciate a review and additional content. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview I found it interesting and informative. But I didn't understand the section on Upstream Focus, "Fedora Project has a strong focus on not deviating from upstream as much as possible in all the different software it includes in the repository", until I read the link provided, when it became clear. But if the document is intended for non-gurus, it might be worth re-wording this bit. Something like, "Fedora tries to follow the development of packages as closely as possible, only adding its own patches where this is essential." -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 31 01:08:04 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 06:38:04 +0530 Subject: Overview rewrite In-Reply-To: References: <47782BB2.8010704@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <477840F4.2030909@fedoraproject.org> Timothy Murphy wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Finally did a quick rewrite of the overview page that I have been >> wanting to do for a while now. Appreciate a review and additional content. >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview > > I found it interesting and informative. > But I didn't understand the section on Upstream Focus, > "Fedora Project has a strong focus > on not deviating from upstream as much as possible > in all the different software it includes in the repository", > until I read the link provided, when it became clear. > > But if the document is intended for non-gurus, > it might be worth re-wording this bit. > Something like, "Fedora tries to follow the development of packages > as closely as possible, only adding its own patches > where this is essential." Fixed. Thanks. Rahul From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 05:44:26 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:44:26 +1000 Subject: copying+pasting screen examples Message-ID: <95f1114b0712302144y4f5dd116l135a89656e494b57@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am trying to re-do the DNS section for use with RPMs instead of tarball. I have just noticed that I can't correctly copy and paste the examples I have done using {{{ }}}. I assume these will be converted to tags eventually, maybe the problem will go away then. For example, copying the /etc/named.conf options section from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/DNSBIND/BINDConfiguration appears as the following in vim: options { directory "/etc/bind"; allow--?query {any;}; recursion no; pid--?file "/var/run/named/named.pid"; zone--?statistics yes; statistics-?f-ile "/etc/bind/named?stats.log"; }; There are double "-" characters, however these characters did not appear when I copied them from vim into here :( . These options will not be valid when double "-" characters are used. I'm not sure if this is a huge problem, but I thought it would be ncie if people could copy and paste these samples to get a basic working configuration before changing it to suit their needs. I was thinking of putting a warning to look out for this, but I thought it would look sloppy. Has anyone had this problem before? Kind Regards, Murray. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Dec 31 05:56:23 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:56:23 +0900 Subject: copying+pasting screen examples In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712302144y4f5dd116l135a89656e494b57@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0712302144y4f5dd116l135a89656e494b57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <47788487.4060100@mwiriadi.id.au> Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to re-do the DNS section for use with RPMs instead of > tarball. I have just noticed that I can't correctly copy and paste the > examples I have done using {{{ }}}. I assume these will be converted > to tags eventually, maybe the problem will go away then. > I have always found that {{{}}} works perfectly? Are you keeping an extra line? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Dec 31 05:57:45 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 14:57:45 +0900 Subject: copying+pasting screen examples In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712302144y4f5dd116l135a89656e494b57@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0712302144y4f5dd116l135a89656e494b57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477884D9.2040503@mwiriadi.id.au> Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi, > > I am trying to re-do the DNS section for use with RPMs instead of > tarball. I have just noticed that I can't correctly copy and paste the > examples I have done using {{{ }}}. I assume these will be converted > to tags eventually, maybe the problem will go away then. > > For example, copying the /etc/named.conf options section from > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/DNSBIND/BINDConfiguration > appears as the following in vim: > > options { > directory "/etc/bind"; > allow--?query {any;}; > recursion no; > pid--?file "/var/run/named/named.pid"; > zone--?statistics yes; > statistics-?f-ile "/etc/bind/named?stats.log"; > }; > It's fixed I just edited it and added the extra dash and it works fine? Cheers, Marc From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 06:55:28 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 16:55:28 +1000 Subject: copying+pasting screen examples In-Reply-To: <477884D9.2040503@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <95f1114b0712302144y4f5dd116l135a89656e494b57@mail.gmail.com> <477884D9.2040503@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712302255k1c25d2c2q732fd27018b5ca46@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 31, 2007 3:57 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Murray McAllister wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I am trying to re-do the DNS section for use with RPMs instead of > > tarball. I have just noticed that I can't correctly copy and paste the > > examples I have done using {{{ }}}. I assume these will be converted > > to tags eventually, maybe the problem will go away then. > > > > For example, copying the /etc/named.conf options section from > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/DNSBIND/BINDConfiguration > > appears as the following in vim: > > > > options { > > directory "/etc/bind"; > > allow--?query {any;}; > > recursion no; > > pid--?file "/var/run/named/named.pid"; > > zone--?statistics yes; > > statistics-?f-ile "/etc/bind/named?stats.log"; > > }; > > > > It's fixed I just edited it and added the extra dash and it works fine? > > > Cheers, > > Marc Hi Marc, Thanks for your help. I could not get it to work, when an extra dash is added (foo--bar) I end up with 3, for example, foo---bar. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I'll have to look at it more. I was using kate to edit the content then copy it into the wiki, I noticed when I copied from kate into the wiki it added an extra dash, for example, copying "foo-bar" from kate appeared as "foo--bar" in the wiki. I'm definitely doing something wrong here! I'll look at it more tomorrow, at the moment I'm wrestling with trying to use a package instead of the tarball. A few hours lately and I finally have it running :P Cheers, Murray. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 31 08:55:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 00:55:22 -0800 Subject: copying+pasting screen examples In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712302144y4f5dd116l135a89656e494b57@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0712302144y4f5dd116l135a89656e494b57@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1199091322.5788.85.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-12-31 at 15:44 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > There are double "-" characters, however these characters did not > appear when I copied them from vim into here :( . I'm seeing the same behavior. The original source in the markup seems correct, but if you copy from the edit window, you get the extra '-' when you paste into an editor that shows real ASCII, such as Vi or Emacs, one single additional '-' appears. The same occurs from the displayed page. Looking at the HTML generated by Moin from the wiki markup, I don't "see" the additional '-'. But if I copy and paste from the Firefox view source window, the additional '-' appears. So it's there, as a hidden character. Pasting from an editor that is not revealing all the ASCII in a plain text fashion might be the culprit. As a test, I wrote a replacement text piece in Emacs, which shows all the characters when in 'text-mode', and the extra '-' disappeared. I am saving this new version in replacement of the other, you should find that it works when pasted into Vim. So, blame Kate? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 12:14:27 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 15:14:27 +0300 Subject: Overview rewrite In-Reply-To: <477840F4.2030909@fedoraproject.org> References: <47782BB2.8010704@fedoraproject.org> <477840F4.2030909@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0712310414y504eceeci3f03c83997d453aa@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 31, 2007 4:08 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Timothy Murphy wrote: > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > >> Finally did a quick rewrite of the overview page that I have been > >> wanting to do for a while now. Appreciate a review and additional content. > >> > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview > > > > I found it interesting and informative. > > But I didn't understand the section on Upstream Focus, > > "Fedora Project has a strong focus > > on not deviating from upstream as much as possible > > in all the different software it includes in the repository", > > until I read the link provided, when it became clear. > > > > But if the document is intended for non-gurus, > > it might be worth re-wording this bit. > > Something like, "Fedora tries to follow the development of packages > > as closely as possible, only adding its own patches > > where this is essential." > > Fixed. Thanks. > Rahul: I copied what you did and performed a fairly large rewrite - the result of being an obsessive-compulsive word-hacker. It's at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/Overview. Use whatever you like. Best Regards, John Babich Hacker of the Written Word From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 31 12:10:32 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:40:32 +0530 Subject: Overview rewrite In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0712310414y504eceeci3f03c83997d453aa@mail.gmail.com> References: <47782BB2.8010704@fedoraproject.org> <477840F4.2030909@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0712310414y504eceeci3f03c83997d453aa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4778DC38.3010501@fedoraproject.org> John Babich wrote: > Rahul: > > I copied what you did and performed a fairly large rewrite - the > result of being an obsessive-compulsive word-hacker. > > It's at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/Overview. > > Use whatever you like. I have taken it with some minor adjustments. Thanks. Rahul From paulo.banon at googlemail.com Mon Dec 31 16:11:27 2007 From: paulo.banon at googlemail.com (Paulo Santos) Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2007 17:11:27 +0100 Subject: wiki questions, Moin versions, and click-through CLA In-Reply-To: <200712220203.03071.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <1198191078.3593.90.camel@erato.phig.org> <476C3C5D.2040409@mkc.co.nz> <476C3ACD.7060603@new2linux.com> <200712220203.03071.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <7a41c4bc0712310811v6eacb1e7h9552c9a3da2faed8@mail.gmail.com> Getting back on topic... Karsten, Moin 1.6 was _finally_ released. The Fedora Infrastructure are currently discussing the plans about upgrading Moin. More news soon :) Paulo On Dec 22, 2007 3:03 AM, Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Friday 21 December 2007 10:14:37 pm Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > > This is becoming a bit silly. Can we finally wrap-up? > > > > > > Vladimir > > > > +1 > > > > Regards, > > Dan O'Brien > > I always find it strange when people write to a thread > asking why people don't stop writing to the thread ... > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Dec 31 21:35:08 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 07:35:08 +1000 Subject: copying+pasting screen examples In-Reply-To: <1199091322.5788.85.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <95f1114b0712302144y4f5dd116l135a89656e494b57@mail.gmail.com> <1199091322.5788.85.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712311335g454e3866h89834cf429b915cc@mail.gmail.com> On Dec 31, 2007 6:55 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2007-12-31 at 15:44 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > > > There are double "-" characters, however these characters did not > > appear when I copied them from vim into here :( . > > I'm seeing the same behavior. The original source in the markup seems > correct, but if you copy from the edit window, you get the extra '-' > when you paste into an editor that shows real ASCII, such as Vi or > Emacs, one single additional '-' appears. The same occurs from the > displayed page. > > Looking at the HTML generated by Moin from the wiki markup, I don't > "see" the additional '-'. But if I copy and paste from the Firefox view > source window, the additional '-' appears. So it's there, as a hidden > character. > > Pasting from an editor that is not revealing all the ASCII in a plain > text fashion might be the culprit. > > As a test, I wrote a replacement text piece in Emacs, which shows all > the characters when in 'text-mode', and the extra '-' disappeared. I am > saving this new version in replacement of the other, you should find > that it works when pasted into Vim. > > So, blame Kate? > > - Karsten > -- Hi Karsten, Thanks for working that out for me, I'll start using something else for the wiki. I noticed there is a plug-in for jEdit that allows you to edit wiki pages, I might give that a go and see if the problem persists. Thanks again! Regards, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18]