From couf at skynet.be Fri Jun 1 04:39:50 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 06:39:50 +0200 Subject: where to meet In-Reply-To: <1180652743.5217.200.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1180606404.5217.182.camel@erato.phig.org> <1180608527.4364.7.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> <1180616602.9835.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0705310805l3bcf1111m859eb08aba860ffd@mail.gmail.com> <1180652743.5217.200.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1180672790.5903.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op donderdag 31-05-2007 om 16:05 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Karsten Wade: > On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 18:05 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > Tuesdays at 1600 hrs UTC in #fedora-meeting works for me. > > +1 > > It's not my favorite time on Tuesday, but it works well enough, and > certainly much better than Sunday. > > I'll further suggest that we move the coming meeting to the following > Tuesday, if we get consensus. > > This will help us get pulled into the FWN, which has a Sat. deadline > prior to the Sunday meeting. I've been manually putting in our content, > but I wouldn't mind letting the beat writer take care of that > instead. :) > > - Karsten Cool, 1600 UTC Tuesday is good! Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Fri Jun 1 12:17:23 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 1 Jun 2007 13:17:23 +0100 Subject: Fwd: [Revisor-devel] Documentation In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706010515j1c226a7cm4733370b7bdc1794@mail.gmail.com> References: <465FFBC2.9030909@kanarip.com> <3263b11b0706010515j1c226a7cm4733370b7bdc1794@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706010517g5fa1072bg319c0cc9b6d5fa9d@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I've offered to help write the revisor documentation, and got this message in reply. Wondered if any body had any suggestions what the best method to do this would be? Cheers, Jon ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Jonathan Roberts Date: 01-Jun-2007 13:15 Subject: Re: [Revisor-devel] Documentation To: Revisor Development Discussion List Hey, > I suppose there's a few ways we can do this... We would want the > documentation to be available on the Revisor website as well as in the > Revisor RPM package, and if it's possible to get them on docs.fp.org > we'll be able to just pull the sources from there enabling collaborative > editing (right?) and translation (both are huge advantages I think!). OK, well I'm no expert on this, but I think the two best options for collaborative work are the Fedora Wiki or docbook in the Fedora CVS...how ever we write it though, I guess we can always port it to different formats if necessary after it's written? I'll forward this message on to the Fedora docs list and someone there will be able to advise us on the best way to achieve this :D Jon From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Jun 1 14:27:53 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:27:53 +0100 Subject: where to meet In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0705310805l3bcf1111m859eb08aba860ffd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1180606404.5217.182.camel@erato.phig.org> <1180608527.4364.7.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> <1180616602.9835.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0705310805l3bcf1111m859eb08aba860ffd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46602CE9.5030105@glezos.com> O/H John Babich ??????: > Tuesdays at 1600 hrs UTC in #fedora-meeting works for me. Works for me as well. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 1 17:14:11 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 13:14:11 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [Revisor-devel] Documentation In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706010517g5fa1072bg319c0cc9b6d5fa9d@mail.gmail.com> References: <465FFBC2.9030909@kanarip.com> <3263b11b0706010515j1c226a7cm4733370b7bdc1794@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706010517g5fa1072bg319c0cc9b6d5fa9d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1180718051.6315.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-06-01 at 13:17 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > I've offered to help write the revisor documentation, and got this > message in reply. Wondered if any body had any suggestions what the > best method to do this would be? If you need portability and translatability, you want to do this as DocBook in CVS. It's very easy to get started; for instance, you could read this: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/example-tutorial/en_US/example-tutorial2.xml?root=docs&rev=HEAD&view=markup Alternately, you can get DocBook: the Definitive Guide online as well at http://docbook.org/ although you have to cope with version mismatch, since they don't publish every version there. We're always around on #fedora-docs to help. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kanarip at kanarip.com Sat Jun 2 00:19:10 2007 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 02:19:10 +0200 Subject: Fwd: [Revisor-devel] Documentation In-Reply-To: <1180718051.6315.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <465FFBC2.9030909@kanarip.com> <3263b11b0706010515j1c226a7cm4733370b7bdc1794@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706010517g5fa1072bg319c0cc9b6d5fa9d@mail.gmail.com> <1180718051.6315.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4660B77E.4020202@kanarip.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > If you need portability and translatability, you want to do this as > DocBook in CVS. It's very easy to get started; for instance, you could > read this: > > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/example-tutorial/en_US/example-tutorial2.xml?root=docs&rev=HEAD&view=markup > > Alternately, you can get DocBook: the Definitive Guide online as well at > http://docbook.org/ although you have to cope with version mismatch, > since they don't publish every version there. > > We're always around on #fedora-docs to help. > > We were thinking about the possibility of getting the docs from CVS and have them in the RPM package; is it possible to just like run a script, get the latest DocBookXML and have it output (selected) .html files? -kanarip From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 2 00:39:32 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 01 Jun 2007 20:39:32 -0400 Subject: Fwd: [Revisor-devel] Documentation In-Reply-To: <4660B77E.4020202@kanarip.com> References: <465FFBC2.9030909@kanarip.com> <3263b11b0706010515j1c226a7cm4733370b7bdc1794@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706010517g5fa1072bg319c0cc9b6d5fa9d@mail.gmail.com> <1180718051.6315.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4660B77E.4020202@kanarip.com> Message-ID: <1180744772.3700.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-02 at 02:19 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > If you need portability and translatability, you want to do this as > > DocBook in CVS. It's very easy to get started; for instance, you could > > read this: > > > > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/example-tutorial/en_US/example-tutorial2.xml?root=docs&rev=HEAD&view=markup > > > > Alternately, you can get DocBook: the Definitive Guide online as well at > > http://docbook.org/ although you have to cope with version mismatch, > > since they don't publish every version there. > > > > We're always around on #fedora-docs to help. > > > > > > We were thinking about the possibility of getting the docs from CVS and > have them in the RPM package; is it possible to just like run a script, > get the latest DocBookXML and have it output (selected) .html files? Absolutely. All part of our prefab build toolset. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From josemanimala at gmail.com Sat Jun 2 04:21:47 2007 From: josemanimala at gmail.com (jose manimala) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 09:51:47 +0530 Subject: RPM task Message-ID: <53a863600706012121r63a466e7va84e7764378c2cf6@mail.gmail.com> Hello, i am really interested in the rpm guide. i'd like to help maintain it. i've been using rpm and have almost used all of the feautres it has, i know everyone has. but since its up there on the list and someone is needed to maintain it i am here. So just let me know. i might need some guidance to get started!! Thanks -- Jose M Manimala S6 Computer science and engineering Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology Ph: +919846367850 http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Jun 2 11:30:06 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 14:30:06 +0300 Subject: Fwd: [Revisor-devel] Documentation In-Reply-To: <1180744772.3700.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <465FFBC2.9030909@kanarip.com> <3263b11b0706010515j1c226a7cm4733370b7bdc1794@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706010517g5fa1072bg319c0cc9b6d5fa9d@mail.gmail.com> <1180718051.6315.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4660B77E.4020202@kanarip.com> <1180744772.3700.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706020430s14448228x27a0d4b45774ecfb@mail.gmail.com> How about we get content started on the wiki and then move it to CVS for translation and packaging? See also the discussion on the Fedora Marketing mailing list starting with http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-June/msg00001.html through http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-June/msg00014.html and beyond (I am sure). John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Sat Jun 2 12:04:41 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 13:04:41 +0100 Subject: Fwd: [Revisor-devel] Documentation In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706020430s14448228x27a0d4b45774ecfb@mail.gmail.com> References: <465FFBC2.9030909@kanarip.com> <3263b11b0706010515j1c226a7cm4733370b7bdc1794@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706010517g5fa1072bg319c0cc9b6d5fa9d@mail.gmail.com> <1180718051.6315.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4660B77E.4020202@kanarip.com> <1180744772.3700.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0706020430s14448228x27a0d4b45774ecfb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706020504t3832c9e1s1680b4a678b92944@mail.gmail.com> Sounds good to me, I'll happily help out - just as soon as I get sound working on my F7 install! (Lol, on a sidenote, if anybody knows anything about why my Intel HD audio isn't working on my laptop drop me a note off list!!!) Cheers, Jon On 02/06/07, John Babich wrote: > How about we get content started on the wiki and then move it to CVS > for translation and packaging? > > See also the discussion on the Fedora Marketing mailing list starting with > > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-June/msg00001.html > > through > > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-June/msg00014.html > > and beyond (I am sure). > > John Babich > Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jun 2 13:56:12 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 02 Jun 2007 19:26:12 +0530 Subject: Release notes USB Booting In-Reply-To: <4661750E.5070909@tvtransilvania.ro> References: <4661750E.5070909@tvtransilvania.ro> Message-ID: <466176FC.6070501@fedoraproject.org> Alexandru Ciobanu wrote: > Hello Rahul, > > Looking at the release notes I've noticed that > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f7/en_US/sn-Live.html#sn-USB-Booting > > > says to use /usr/bin/livecd-iso-to-stick. > > It should be /usr/bin/livecd-iso-to-disk. > (CC'ed fedora-docs list) This is correct in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Live. Looks like someone made a mistake before publishing. I have also made some minor changes to clarify that x86_64 images are DVD sized. Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Sat Jun 2 16:41:33 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sat, 2 Jun 2007 17:41:33 +0100 Subject: Fwd: [Revisor-devel] Documentation In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706020504t3832c9e1s1680b4a678b92944@mail.gmail.com> References: <465FFBC2.9030909@kanarip.com> <3263b11b0706010515j1c226a7cm4733370b7bdc1794@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706010517g5fa1072bg319c0cc9b6d5fa9d@mail.gmail.com> <1180718051.6315.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4660B77E.4020202@kanarip.com> <1180744772.3700.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0706020430s14448228x27a0d4b45774ecfb@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706020504t3832c9e1s1680b4a678b92944@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706020941q26caf99em8abed97e4b7c4f61@mail.gmail.com> On 02/06/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Sounds good to me, I'll happily help out - just as soon as I get sound > working on my F7 install! (Lol, on a sidenote, if anybody knows > anything about why my Intel HD audio isn't working on my laptop drop > me a note off list!!!) FIxed :D I'll create a wiki page now unless anyone has any other thoughts? Jon From mwilby at googlemail.com Sun Jun 3 20:31:32 2007 From: mwilby at googlemail.com (Matt Wilby) Date: Sun, 03 Jun 2007 21:31:32 +0100 Subject: Self Introduction: Matt Wilby Message-ID: <46632524.4000100@googlemail.com> Hi, I'd like to take this opportunity to introduce myself and offer my services to the Fedora community. Having spent 4 years working in IT in the motorsport industry, generally doing all sorts from Linux HPC Administration to SAN Administration to Network Administration, I fancied a career change and now work as an EMC SAN Administrator Symmetrix & Clariion) in the public sector here in the UK, which is where I have been for over a year and a bit. I've been a Linux enthusiast since 1998, first distro was RH5. Since then I've used SuSE -> Debian -> Gentoo -> Fedora. I've used Fedora on and off since FC4, but have now settled for FC6 (soon to be Fedora 7) as the OS of choice on my workhorse laptop. IMHO Fedora is the most polished and mature distribution available. I only use Windows when I really have to... :-) The articles I would like to see written about or hopefully write about if given the opportunity are :- - iSCSI - AoE - SAN Boot (FC & iSCSI) - MPIO - Volume Management (PVM2, EVMS etc.) - File Systems - Benefits of each, performance tweaks etc. (Reiser, ext3, JFS, XFS etc.) - Open Source Backup Software - What's out there? Comparison between them etc. - File replication software etc. to name a few... I have never worked directly with a distribution before, other than contributing via forums. I am however one of a rare breed of people who actually enjoys writing technical documentation & procedures. This is something that I have done pretty much every day of my working life, some people shy away from doing documentation, I'm the opposite. I find it very rewarding when others learn from shared knowledge. I'm not a programmer. I'm a Sys Admin. I cannot profess to know anything other than bash shell scripting. I do however have good people skills and a talent to pick up new things. I'm enthusiastic about Open Source Software, and I feel that this and the other qualities I have mentioned make me an ideal candidate. To conclude it would be exciting to be able to contribute or give back to a (Linux) community that brings so much to the table. Thanks, Matt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0x96D9ABCA.asc Type: application/pgp-keys Size: 2393 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 4 16:03:33 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:33:33 +0530 Subject: Fwd: [Revisor-devel] Documentation In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706020504t3832c9e1s1680b4a678b92944@mail.gmail.com> References: <465FFBC2.9030909@kanarip.com> <3263b11b0706010515j1c226a7cm4733370b7bdc1794@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706010517g5fa1072bg319c0cc9b6d5fa9d@mail.gmail.com> <1180718051.6315.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4660B77E.4020202@kanarip.com> <1180744772.3700.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0706020430s14448228x27a0d4b45774ecfb@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706020504t3832c9e1s1680b4a678b92944@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <466437D5.5070704@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Sounds good to me, I'll happily help out - just as soon as I get sound > working on my F7 install! (Lol, on a sidenote, if anybody knows > anything about why my Intel HD audio isn't working on my laptop drop > me a note off list!!!) ICH7? See fedora-test list for a workaround. Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Jun 4 16:16:05 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 17:16:05 +0100 Subject: Fwd: [Revisor-devel] Documentation In-Reply-To: <466437D5.5070704@fedoraproject.org> References: <465FFBC2.9030909@kanarip.com> <3263b11b0706010515j1c226a7cm4733370b7bdc1794@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706010517g5fa1072bg319c0cc9b6d5fa9d@mail.gmail.com> <1180718051.6315.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4660B77E.4020202@kanarip.com> <1180744772.3700.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0706020430s14448228x27a0d4b45774ecfb@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706020504t3832c9e1s1680b4a678b92944@mail.gmail.com> <466437D5.5070704@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706040916v3f09e062va1745da3f3ee1dd4@mail.gmail.com> > ICH7? See fedora-test list for a workaround. Cheers Rahul :D Jon From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Jun 4 20:55:21 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 21:55:21 +0100 Subject: CVS walk through and spins in IRC Message-ID: <3263b11b0706041355x5ffe51a8s61b6bacede48db6@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, Just to let people know: Bart Couvreur has offered to give a session on CVS and XML in the #fedora-docs channel on freenode. The idea is to get people who are new to the docs project, CVS and XML in particular, off the ground. We'll also be talking about documentation for the new spin tools in F7, Revisor etc... Feel free to drop by! Oh, and the time: Thursday 7th June, 1800-1900 UTC. Jon From mmahut at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 4 22:18:29 2007 From: mmahut at fedoraproject.org (Marek Mahut) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:18:29 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Marek Mahut Message-ID: <46648FB5.8040505@fedoraproject.org> Hello everyone! My name is Marek and I'm working for Red Hat in Brno, Czech Republic in Desktop helpdesk support team. My goal in documentation team is to make better the Slovak translation of Fedora as it's pretty bad [1]. I speak English, Slovak, Czech, French and I understand Dutch and Polish. My gpg keyid is B0179D09. Feel free to ask any question, I have only one: somebody who translated already Fedora in Slovak or Czech? [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=242024 -- Marek Mahut Tel.: +420-532-294-111 (ex. 826-2046) Fedora Ambassador GSM: +420-731-076-674 http://www.fedoraproject.org http://www.jamendo.com ____________________________________________________________________ From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 05:57:53 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 08:57:53 +0300 Subject: CVS walk through and spins in IRC In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706041355x5ffe51a8s61b6bacede48db6@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0706041355x5ffe51a8s61b6bacede48db6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706042257h617aad8fq44948bfacaf9ef5c@mail.gmail.com> On 6/4/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey all, > > Just to let people know: > > Bart Couvreur has offered to give a session on CVS and XML in the > #fedora-docs channel on freenode. The idea is to get people who are > new to the docs project, CVS and XML in particular, off the ground. > > We'll also be talking about documentation for the new spin tools in > F7, Revisor etc... > > Feel free to drop by! > > Oh, and the time: Thursday 7th June, 1800-1900 UTC. I'll be there, especially for the new spin tool documentation. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From matthewwilby at btinternet.com Tue Jun 5 06:07:28 2007 From: matthewwilby at btinternet.com (Matt Wilby) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 07:07:28 +0100 Subject: Self Introduction: Matt Wilby (Matt Wilby) Message-ID: <1181023648.4057.2.camel@wks01.home> Hi, I'm going to use a different email address for this list rather than the Gmail one. It's difficult to get access to Gmail at work. Thanks, Matt -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jtgray23 at yahoo.com Tue Jun 5 07:21:32 2007 From: jtgray23 at yahoo.com (jt gray) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 00:21:32 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Self-Introduction: JT Gray Message-ID: <682965.77639.qm@web39714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> JT Gray Seattle, US Web Dev / Admin intarwebz.com Your goals in the Fedora Project I want to learn more about Fedora while I refine existing material I would like to broaden the appeal and deepen the penetration of Linux and open source software Historical qualifications I have a language(s)-oriented BA from The University of Texas at Austin I have worked as a web developer since college at an insurance company where command-line Linux is central to my existence and success I have a good sense of "cool" I am on a mission to expand Linux usage throughout the world and my passion will serve as an inspiration to others GPG KEYID and fingerprint A86E4429 jtghome:~ jtg$ gpg --fingerprint A86E4429 pub 1024D/A86E4429 2007-06-05 JT Gray (be cool, stay in school) Key fingerprint = 9E0B ECA4 16A7 4B8C E703 52F0 509A AAD6 A86E 4429 sub 1024g/4D3E3E87 2007-06-05 --------------------------------- Boardwalk for $500? In 2007? Ha! Play Monopoly Here and Now (it's updated for today's economy) at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 18:25:57 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 21:25:57 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: Marek Mahut In-Reply-To: <46648FB5.8040505@fedoraproject.org> References: <46648FB5.8040505@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706051125u7961bf4t1cb99d356947fabf@mail.gmail.com> On 6/5/07, Marek Mahut wrote: > Hello everyone! > V?tejte! Welcome to the Fedora Docs Project! > My name is Marek and I'm working for Red Hat in Brno, Czech Republic in > Desktop helpdesk support team. My goal in documentation team is to make > better the Slovak translation of Fedora as it's pretty bad [1]. I speak > English, Slovak, Czech, French and I understand Dutch and Polish. My gpg > keyid is B0179D09. > Personal trivia: my first international FTP session way back in the early days of the internet (pre-WWW) was with a university in Brno. > Feel free to ask any question, I have only one: somebody who translated > already Fedora in Slovak or Czech? > That's a good question which I cannot answer at the moment. I read your bug report and am willing to a little research. You may want to ask that same question on the fedora-trans-list. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project (Caution: Most of my language skills come from Google Translate) From paulo.banon at googlemail.com Tue Jun 5 18:40:46 2007 From: paulo.banon at googlemail.com (Paulo Santos) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 20:40:46 +0200 Subject: CVS walk through and spins in IRC In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706042257h617aad8fq44948bfacaf9ef5c@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0706041355x5ffe51a8s61b6bacede48db6@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706042257h617aad8fq44948bfacaf9ef5c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7a41c4bc0706051140u175cb275jaa19a7aa384798c3@mail.gmail.com> I'll try to be there also. But in case im not, is it possible to save the IRC log or document it? this would be a nice source of information for future reference and/or a new spin tool documentation ?! :) Thanks, Paulo On 6/5/07, John Babich wrote: > > On 6/4/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > Just to let people know: > > > > Bart Couvreur has offered to give a session on CVS and XML in the > > #fedora-docs channel on freenode. The idea is to get people who are > > new to the docs project, CVS and XML in particular, off the ground. > > > > We'll also be talking about documentation for the new spin tools in > > F7, Revisor etc... > > > > Feel free to drop by! > > > > Oh, and the time: Thursday 7th June, 1800-1900 UTC. > > I'll be there, especially for the new spin tool documentation. > > John Babich > Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Jun 5 18:57:05 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 5 Jun 2007 21:57:05 +0300 Subject: CVS walk through and spins in IRC In-Reply-To: <7a41c4bc0706051140u175cb275jaa19a7aa384798c3@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0706041355x5ffe51a8s61b6bacede48db6@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706042257h617aad8fq44948bfacaf9ef5c@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706051140u175cb275jaa19a7aa384798c3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706051157x7f301217vde8d5090dd9e00dc@mail.gmail.com> Sorry, but I probably won't be able attend after all. However, if you save the IRC log, I will be glad to make it into a very nice page using irclog2html,py, my favorite new tool. You can email me the log if you like so I can convert it, or post it to a page as raw output. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From sbulicek at redhat.com Tue Jun 5 20:29:11 2007 From: sbulicek at redhat.com (Stanislav Bulicek) Date: Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:29:11 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Stanislav Bulicek Message-ID: <4665C797.4010005@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, I'd like to introduce myself to the Fedora community. I'm working with Linux since 1997. I was working as Unix Sys Admin. Currently I'm employed as a Help Desk Engineer in Global Help Desk team at Red Hat in Brno, Czech republic. My main goal is to help improving Czech translation. If you have any questions on me feel free to catch me on #fedora-cs or #fedora-docs. Kind regards, Stan - -- Stanislav Bulicek irc: stanlly Phone: +420 532 294 111 ext. 826 2047 OpenPGP Key ID: 2434 DF66 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGZceXaxDZUCQ032YRAmWsAJkBoAHANKFW5xeVUFERjyzZ8PXfsACfXUHI xhgn0SkcTKyQfaeHmEFur9I= =6K4O -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Jun 6 01:27:50 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 06:57:50 +0530 Subject: Fedora installation guide - suggestion In-Reply-To: <20070606012103.GI3889@charlescurley.com> References: <4665BCEB.5020200@fedoraproject.org> <4665CD75.3070903@fedoraproject.org> <4665D5E1.9000103@fedoraproject.org> <20070606012103.GI3889@charlescurley.com> Message-ID: <46660D96.3000103@fedoraproject.org> Charles Curley wrote: > On Wed, Jun 06, 2007 at 03:00:09AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Kam Leo wrote: >> >>> Users not able to boot any of the CD/DVDs is a problem. Not able to >>> boot after installation is also related. Unfortunately, problem >>> booting is not uniquely F7's. It really needs to be posted at a >>> prominent place so we can direct people to go there. >> If there are generic solutions they can be in the installation guide >> itself. Post to fedora-docs list if you are interested in contributing >> any documentation. > > What, another dang list to subscribe to? If you want to contribute, yes. It is pretty much impossible for the project to function with a single list. You might use something like gmane if you aren't fond of lists. > Please mention Smart Boot Manager: url="http://btmgr.webframe.org/">Smart Boot Manager (SBM) is > an OS independent and full-featured boot manager with an easy-to-use > user interface. There are some screen shots available. It is > essential if your BIOS will not allow you to boot to CD-ROM and you > want to use a CD-ROM based Linux for Stage 1 recovery. > > Folks may find useful some of the resources in my Linux Complete > Backup and Recovery HOWTO, > http://www.charlescurley.com/Linux-Complete-Backup-and-Recovery-HOWTO.html CC'ed fedora-docs list. Rahul From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 05:43:10 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 08:43:10 +0300 Subject: Self Introduction: Matt Wilby In-Reply-To: <46632524.4000100@googlemail.com> References: <46632524.4000100@googlemail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706052243v7b2e7d82mf141d1e1fabeb9@mail.gmail.com> On 6/3/07, Matt Wilby wrote: > Hi, > > I'd like to take this opportunity to introduce myself and offer my > services to the Fedora community. > Welcome to the Fedora Docs Project, Matt! > Having spent 4 years working in IT in the motorsport industry, generally > doing all sorts from Linux HPC Administration to SAN Administration to > Network Administration, I fancied a career change and now work as an EMC > SAN Administrator Symmetrix & Clariion) in the public sector here in the > UK, which is where I have been for over a year and a bit. > > I've been a Linux enthusiast since 1998, first distro was RH5. Since > then I've used SuSE -> Debian -> Gentoo -> Fedora. > Interesting migration path. > I've used Fedora on and off since FC4, but have now settled for FC6 > (soon to be Fedora 7) as the OS of choice on my workhorse laptop. IMHO > Fedora is the most polished and mature distribution available. I only > use Windows when I really have to... :-) > No argument there. > The articles I would like to see written about or hopefully write about > if given the opportunity are :- > > - iSCSI > > - AoE > > - SAN Boot (FC & iSCSI) > > - MPIO > > - Volume Management (PVM2, EVMS etc.) > > - File Systems - Benefits of each, performance tweaks etc. (Reiser, > ext3, JFS, XFS etc.) > > - Open Source Backup Software - What's out there? Comparison between > them etc. > > - File replication software etc. > > to name a few... > These look like good topics for updating the Administration Guide. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide. > I have never worked directly with a distribution before, other than > contributing via forums. I am however one of a rare breed of people who > actually enjoys writing technical documentation & procedures. This is > something that I have done pretty much every day of my working life, > some people shy away from doing documentation, I'm the opposite. I find > it very rewarding when others learn from shared knowledge. > We are a rare breed :-) > I'm not a programmer. I'm a Sys Admin. I cannot profess to know anything > other than bash shell scripting. I do however have good people skills > and a talent to pick up new things. I'm enthusiastic about Open Source > Software, and I feel that this and the other qualities I have mentioned > make me an ideal candidate. To conclude it would be exciting to be able > to contribute or give back to a (Linux) community that brings so much to > the table. > Once again, welcome and drop by the #fedora-docs on Freenode sometime and get to know the other FDP members. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 05:48:51 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 08:48:51 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: JT Gray In-Reply-To: <682965.77639.qm@web39714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <682965.77639.qm@web39714.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706052248q17e5f34fwd08892d32db74958@mail.gmail.com> On 6/5/07, jt gray wrote: > > JT Gray > Seattle, US > Web Dev / Admin > intarwebz.com > Your goals in the Fedora Project > I want to learn more about Fedora while I refine existing material > I would like to broaden the appeal and deepen the penetration of Linux and > open source software JT, welcome to the Fedora Docs Project! Writing docs is definitely a good way of learning the ins and outs of Fedora. Good documentation does indeed help spread the adoption of FOSS Linux and apps. > Historical qualifications > I have a language(s)-oriented BA from The University of Texas at Austin > I have worked as a web developer since college at an insurance company where > command-line Linux is central to my existence and success > I have a good sense of "cool" > I am on a mission to expand Linux usage throughout the world and my passion > will serve as an inspiration to others Join us on #fedora-docs channel on Freenode and introduce yourself there as well. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Jun 6 06:11:50 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 6 Jun 2007 09:11:50 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: Stanislav Bulicek In-Reply-To: <4665C797.4010005@redhat.com> References: <4665C797.4010005@redhat.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706052311p6c6cd655tee7fa40b80a95ff@mail.gmail.com> On 6/5/07, Stanislav Bulicek wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all, > > I'd like to introduce myself to the Fedora community. I'm working with > Linux since 1997. I was working as Unix Sys Admin. Currently I'm > employed as a Help Desk Engineer in Global Help Desk team at Red Hat in > Brno, Czech republic. V?tejte! Welcome to the Fedora Docs Project! > > My main goal is to help improving Czech translation. > I'm sure you must know Marek Mahut. He's hoping to improve the Czech translation as well. > If you have any questions on me feel free to catch me on #fedora-cs or > #fedora-docs. Introduce yourself sometime on IRC. My nickname is jmbuser. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project (Fluent via Google search and Google Translate) From angelascanio at hotmail.com Wed Jun 6 17:26:32 2007 From: angelascanio at hotmail.com (Angel Ascanio) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:26:32 -0400 Subject: Introducing myself - Angel Ascanio - New member Message-ID: Good afternoon. According to the information published in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SelfIntroduction, I want to introduce myself to become a member/collaborator of the Fedora Project as a TRANSLATOR in the Spanish language; so please find a recap about myself: Then tell us what you would want to know about yourself. Subject * Self-Introduction: Your Name Here Name: ANGEL Last name: ASCANIO email: angelascanio at hotmail.com Body * Full legal name (as you use it is fine) ANGEL ASCANIO * Age: 37 * Gender: Male * Birth : February 1970 * City, Country: VALENCIA, VENEZUELA. TIMEZONE: -4 GMT * Profession or Student status: BACHELOR DEGREE. SYSTEMS ENGINEER GRADUATED IN 1992 - MBA Studies in current progress. Postgraduate in IT Management -CCNA: 5 Levels approved -MCSE/MCP: Specialist in Windows 2003 servers/Active Directory Management -Routing, WAN / LAN Specialist. * Company, School, or other affiliation: Currently I work at FEDEX (Federal Express, www.fedex.com) as a Senior Telecom Specialist, managing the WAN network, routers programming, servers management (inclulding RedHat servers), and applications development. I have intermediate-to-high expertise level in Application Development in PHP+MySQL, Linux, and Apache. I also manage Network services like DNS, DHCP, Samba, and others * Your goals in the Fedora Project o What do you want to write about? I want to collaborate as a doc translator in the FedoraProject, since my English is Fluently, with a TOEIC value of 85.0 o Anything else you'd like to do? I can collaborate openly in research, testings, docs translating, manual/white paper/job aids creation/edition, and websites management. * Historical qualifications o What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? I've worked in Hundreds of Systems Development for over 20 years. Most recently, I've written Open Source applications, like a Thesaurus of Public Domain for the Home-Building Institute, part of the National Government. This is my first time working in a project such Fedora. o What level and type of computer skills do you have? I have 21 years of experience in computer science as a Systems Engineer (Bachelor Degree). I started as a Developer, working in many languages from GWBasic and Pascal, until PHP and Visual Basic. I'm a project leader, and a research engineer. I speak both English and Spanish languages fluently. o What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. I have Programming Skills in PHP and Visual Basic, MySQL DB Management and design, Websites Setup and maintenance, etc. o What makes you an excellent match for the project? I've been a Linux Enthusiast since its beginning, and I feel I have the skills necessary to collaborate in such project, which benefits the whole humankind. * GPG KEYID and fingerprint pub 1024D/0882DD6E 2003-10-21 Key fingerprint = 87CA E229 8D04 0E55 7EFD CB6B 1771 96FC 0882 DD6E uid Angel Ascanio (Venezuela) sub 2048g/FE4BA82E 2003-10-21 Regards, _________________________________________________________________ Las mejores tiendas, los precios mas bajos, entregas en todo el mundo, YupiMSN Compras: http://latam.msn.com/compras/ From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Jun 6 20:37:30 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 13:37:30 -0700 Subject: moinmoin {en,em}dash Message-ID: <46671B0A.8050802@redhat.com> Is there a way to do endash (--) or emdash (---) on our wiki pages? I didn't see any guidance here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#head-fd34d4a6d1ed33ec3d1ab35c2dd8f47074f75990 Haven't found much on Google except to partially conclude that maybe it isn't possible. Thanks, John From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Jun 6 21:38:11 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 22:38:11 +0100 Subject: moinmoin {en,em}dash In-Reply-To: <46671B0A.8050802@redhat.com> References: <46671B0A.8050802@redhat.com> Message-ID: <46672943.1070000@glezos.com> O/H John Poelstra ??????: > Is there a way to do endash (--) or emdash (---) on our wiki pages? I > didn't see any guidance here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#head-fd34d4a6d1ed33ec3d1ab35c2dd8f47074f75990 > > > Haven't found much on Google except to partially conclude that maybe it > isn't possible. The guys at Moin don't seem to believe that they should neither auto-convert "--" and "---" to en and em dashes respectively, nor use Javascript-based character maps: http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/FeatureRequests/LongDashes FWIW, I tend to agree in the first argument; it's something the keyboard layout of a user should take care of instead of the wiki syntax. Most keyboard nowadays have dead keys (at least 2 of them) which are not being used in the en_{us,uk} layout (in a extended greek layout the euro sign is Alt_Gr+5). And even on the en_US extended & international layouts, there are no en and em dashes. For a no-hacking solution, the GUI editor on the wiki has a character selection map. Or you could type – — to get them. (eek) I'm not sure what the effect of a bug report on the GNOME keyboard component would be. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 7 02:39:56 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2007 19:39:56 -0700 Subject: what is v. how to Message-ID: <1181183996.3469.151.camel@erato.phig.org> Just a general note, because it happens to all of us, and it is always worth mentioning. When writing technical docs, it is easy to slip into a descriptive mode, where we: * List what is on the screen and what happens when you click it * List all the commands available and what some combinations do (examples) What we forget is that much of that is available by reading the help docs or the man/info pages. All that content is actually "what is" information. Docs written to that spec are like maps, guiding you to a location, but not telling what you can do once you get there. How-to/what-you-can-do documents are different. They focus on one or more specific tasks the user wants to accomplish: * Setting up a home firewall to supplement or replace an appliance * Hardening a system beyond the defaults * Programming a Python application that interacts with a Web service * Creating a custom live spin of Fedora Honestly, those documents assume the existence of the other content -- the help/man/info pages. We want to keep our content focused on what hasn't been written. Focus on specific examples, tasks the reader wants to accomplish. Make them specific enough *and* generic enough, so they can be applied to different situations. When working, read all the associated documents that come e.g. with the RPM package (/usr/share/doc/foo). If those are lacking, make notes about what needs to be added. Keep adding to those notes as you write your how-to-do-it, noting what needs to be added to the default content to make it (more) complete. This summer, there is a student project[1] that is working to provide a Wiki-based front end to editing man and info pages. A goal is to produce patches that can be submitted upstream, probably through bugzilla. This is going to give you somewhere to input all those good ideas you've been saving. Then we can reference the default package docs from within our supplemental docs, relying upon them to be complete and useful. - Karsten [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/VillePekkaVainio More is coming from Ville-Pekka on this. -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Jun 7 08:33:26 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 09:33:26 +0100 Subject: what is v. how to In-Reply-To: <1181183996.3469.151.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1181183996.3469.151.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706070133k6d8fdc4crbd2d176a2570513f@mail.gmail.com> Hey, I don't know but I'm guessing this was prompted by the Revisor doc? I'll quickly add that with the Revisor doc, the unity team were looking for something to be included with the RPM, so I guess a more descriptive tone would be appropriate here? Perhaps a set of docs that are more how-to in nature can be created from the doc I've started now? I'd be happy to do them at some point. Lol - saying that, had you not pointed it out it's something I'd probably never have considered (so it was certainly not an intentional choice for this doc!!) and I think it's something I've done elsewhere, so it's good to know and I hope I improve it in my writing :D Cheers, Jon On 07/06/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > Just a general note, because it happens to all of us, and it is always > worth mentioning. > > When writing technical docs, it is easy to slip into a descriptive mode, > where we: > > * List what is on the screen and what happens when you click it > * List all the commands available and what some combinations do > (examples) > > What we forget is that much of that is available by reading the help > docs or the man/info pages. All that content is actually "what is" > information. Docs written to that spec are like maps, guiding you to a > location, but not telling what you can do once you get there. > > How-to/what-you-can-do documents are different. They focus on one or > more specific tasks the user wants to accomplish: > > * Setting up a home firewall to supplement or replace an appliance > * Hardening a system beyond the defaults > * Programming a Python application that interacts with a Web service > * Creating a custom live spin of Fedora > > Honestly, those documents assume the existence of the other content -- > the help/man/info pages. > > We want to keep our content focused on what hasn't been written. Focus > on specific examples, tasks the reader wants to accomplish. Make them > specific enough *and* generic enough, so they can be applied to > different situations. > > When working, read all the associated documents that come e.g. with the > RPM package (/usr/share/doc/foo). If those are lacking, make notes > about what needs to be added. Keep adding to those notes as you write > your how-to-do-it, noting what needs to be added to the default content > to make it (more) complete. > > This summer, there is a student project[1] that is working to provide a > Wiki-based front end to editing man and info pages. A goal is to > produce patches that can be submitted upstream, probably through > bugzilla. This is going to give you somewhere to input all those good > ideas you've been saving. > > Then we can reference the default package docs from within our > supplemental docs, relying upon them to be complete and useful. > > - Karsten > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/VillePekkaVainio > > More is coming from Ville-Pekka on this. > -- > Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > From rpjday at mindspring.com Thu Jun 7 11:22:34 2007 From: rpjday at mindspring.com (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 07:22:34 -0400 (EDT) Subject: an XSL/xsltproc-based TLDP toolchain? Message-ID: i've just become a maintainer of one of the guides over at tldp.org, and the current build infrastructure is based on DSSSL stylesheets, whereas i'd really prefer to work with XSL and xsltproc. does anyone have a working toolchain that runs under FC6/F7 that uses strictly the XSL-based stuff? thanks. rday From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 13:41:14 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 09:41:14 -0400 Subject: an XSL/xsltproc-based TLDP toolchain? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1181223674.3733.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 07:22 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > i've just become a maintainer of one of the guides over at tldp.org, > and the current build infrastructure is based on DSSSL stylesheets, > whereas i'd really prefer to work with XSL and xsltproc. > > does anyone have a working toolchain that runs under FC6/F7 that > uses strictly the XSL-based stuff? thanks. I think this describes our build tools: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/docs-common/?root=docs If you have specific questions about how we're doing something please feel free to drop another line here! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rpjday at mindspring.com Thu Jun 7 14:54:16 2007 From: rpjday at mindspring.com (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 10:54:16 -0400 (EDT) Subject: an XSL/xsltproc-based TLDP toolchain? In-Reply-To: <1181223674.3733.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1181223674.3733.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 7 Jun 2007, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 07:22 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > i've just become a maintainer of one of the guides over at tldp.org, > > and the current build infrastructure is based on DSSSL stylesheets, > > whereas i'd really prefer to work with XSL and xsltproc. > > > > does anyone have a working toolchain that runs under FC6/F7 that > > uses strictly the XSL-based stuff? thanks. > > I think this describes our build tools: > > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/docs-common/?root=docs > > If you have specific questions about how we're doing something > please feel free to drop another line here! not trying to sound lazy, but what i was after was a top-level Makefile that was the XSL-based version of the Makefile that's already at the top of this project. i've reproduced it below -- you can see how it's clearly DSSSL-based and, in fact, it won't even work under FC6 given that the directory locations are just plain wrong. so i'm looking for an equivalent XSL version that would work under FC6. am i making sense here? TARGET=lkmpg TARBALL = ${TARGET}.tar.bz2 EXAMPLES = ./${TARGET}-examples BACKUPDIR=/usr/local/backup/${TARGET} LDPDSL='/usr/share/sgml/docbook/stylesheet/dsssl/modular/html/ldp.dsl\#html' DOCDSL='/usr/share/sgml/docbook/stylesheet/dsssl/modular/html/docbook.dsl' TIMESTAMP=`/bin/date +'%Y-%m-%d-%H-%M'` JADEOPTIONS=-t sgml -i html -V nochunks -d $(LDPDSL) WEBDIR='/www/linux/writing' # Make the darn thing... # new: make images make index jade ${JADEOPTIONS} ${TARGET}.sgml > ${TARGET}.html -ldp_print ${TARGET}.html #make tidy # This target creates index stuff # index: collateindex.pl -N -o index.sgml jade -t sgml -V html-index -d ${DOCDSL} ${TARGET}.sgml collateindex.pl -g -t Index -i doc-index -o index.sgml HTML.index publish: @make clean @make @./extractor cp ${TARGET}.html /www/linux/writing/lkmpg cp ${TARGET}.ps /www/linux/writing/lkmpg @make clean cd ..; tar jcv lkmpg > ${TARBALL} mv ../${TARBALL} . cp ${TARBALL} /www/linux/writing/lkmpg # Create images # images: fig2dev -L png figures/seq_file.fig > figures/seq_file.png # Get rid of the temp files created during the index and document build. # tidy: @rm -rf body.html title.html HTML.index index.sgml [a-km-z]*.html [a-km-z]*.htm ln14.html figures/*.png # Get rid of everything. # clean: make tidy @rm -rf ${EXAMPLES}/*/*.o ${EXAMPLES}/*/*.ko ${TARBALL} *.html *.htm *.ps *.pdf # Build the modules SUBDIRS += lkmpg-examples/[0-9][0-9]-*/ modules: @for i in $(SUBDIRS); do \ echo "make all in $$i..."; \ (cd $$i; $(MAKE) all); done modules_clean: @for i in $(SUBDIRS); do \ echo "make clean in $$i..."; \ (cd $$i; $(MAKE) clean); done From dimitris at glezos.com Thu Jun 7 17:05:11 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 18:05:11 +0100 Subject: homepage language auto-selector Message-ID: <46683AC7.2060807@glezos.com> So, it seems that we have forgotten that Fedora 7 ships Firefox 2, which fixes the auto-selection of the browser homepage language, so we missed including Tommy's adaptive index in F7. http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-October/msg00104.html Can we fix this and push an update on the release-notes package for F7, so that user's default browser homepage starts properly localized instead of english? -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 17:22:04 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 13:22:04 -0400 Subject: homepage language auto-selector In-Reply-To: <46683AC7.2060807@glezos.com> References: <46683AC7.2060807@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1181236924.3686.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 18:05 +0100, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > So, it seems that we have forgotten that Fedora 7 ships Firefox 2, which fixes > the auto-selection of the browser homepage language, so we missed including > Tommy's adaptive index in F7. > > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2006-October/msg00104.html > > Can we fix this and push an update on the release-notes package for F7, so that > user's default browser homepage starts properly localized instead of english? "Someone" should work on this, absolutely. File a bug to start the ball rolling! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Jun 7 19:30:43 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2007 20:30:43 +0100 Subject: CVS walk through and spins in IRC In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706051157x7f301217vde8d5090dd9e00dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0706041355x5ffe51a8s61b6bacede48db6@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706042257h617aad8fq44948bfacaf9ef5c@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706051140u175cb275jaa19a7aa384798c3@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706051157x7f301217vde8d5090dd9e00dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706071230x44086f08pb83aa0f523e97cab@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, Here's the log from the lesson: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19:17 < couf> 19:18 < couf> so today, I'll try to give a rundown of CVS and maybe start off with Docbook 19:19 < couf> basicly, a cvs workflow starts with a checkout, editing your files and committing them back to the server 19:20 < couf> cvs needs to know, where to find the server and on which path it should look on that server, this is called the CVSROOT 19:20 < couf> in FDP's case the cvsroot is: :ext:@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs 19:21 < couf> where is your account name in the fedora account system 19:21 -!- BobJensen-Away is now known as BobJensen 19:21 < JonRob> ok, and what is the ":ext:" bit? 19:22 < couf> the ext bit tells the server how to authenticate the user 19:22 < JonRob> oh ok, cool 19:22 < couf> in fedora's case we use ssh 19:22 < couf> which should be defined in CVS_RSH 19:22 < couf> so first step: checkout a directory-tree from cvs 19:23 < couf> this just downloads all files that exist in that tree on the server, with information that lets you know which version of a file you've downloaded 19:24 < couf> you can download a whole cvs repository, a module or a specific directory 19:24 < couf> s/download/checkout 19:24 < couf> if you don't have, don't download the whole repository, keep to a module or a directory 19:25 < couf> a module is a configured item that tells cvs to grab directory foo and bar if need be 19:25 < couf> so let's cut to the chase: checking out the example-tutorial 19:26 < couf> cvs doesn't know our CVSROOT, nor our CVS_RSH so they need to be set as environnemnt variables 19:26 < couf> export CVSROOT=:ext:@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs 19:26 < couf> export CVS_RSH=ssh 19:27 < couf> if everything goes well, you should be able to issue "cvs co -c" which will show the possible modules 19:28 < couf> JonRob: with me so far? 19:28 < JonRob> nuts...got an error :S 19:28 < couf> what's the error? 19:28 < JonRob> permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). 19:29 < couf> ah, are you part of the cvsdocs group in FAS? 19:29 < JonRob> good question! 19:29 < JonRob> i don't think so 19:30 < couf> heh, you probably should do that, otherwise you can't commit anything to the repository 19:30 < JonRob> i'm just logging in now 19:31 < JonRob> ok, i've added cvsdocs to my account 19:31 < couf> jonrob right? 19:31 < couf> duuh probably 19:31 < JonRob> same error 19:31 < JonRob> :( 19:32 < couf> okay, yeah that'll change in an hour, I just approved you 19:32 < couf> or better on top of the hour 19:32 < JonRob> lol ok, i'm taking detailed notes so we should be good to keep going 19:33 < couf> anyways if you want to try it, you could you anonymous login, cvsroot is :pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs 19:33 < couf> cool 19:34 < couf> so if you want to checkout a module, you look up it's name with "cvs co -c" 19:34 < couf> now you can "cvs co " 19:35 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=sglaser at fedora/sonarguy] has quit ["Sonar_Guy has Left the Building!!"] 19:35 < couf> ow yeah, the modulename is the first word on a line :-) 19:35 < JonRob> cool 19:36 < JonRob> (cvs co -c seems very slow?) 19:36 < couf> this will checkout (download) the module, eg "cvs co example-tutorial" will get the example tutorial and put it in a directory with the same name 19:36 < couf> JonRob: not really slow here 19:36 < JonRob> hmm 19:37 < JonRob> OK, well keep going...will figure out details like that later! 19:37 < couf> okay, so what you've got now is known as a working copy of the module 19:37 < couf> you can edit every file in there, add new ones, del, move, copy 19:38 < couf> keeping it up-to-date with the cvs server is wise 19:39 < couf> you do this by going into the directory and using "cvs up" 19:39 < couf> this will check the file versions on the server and locally and update accordinly (download the newest version) 19:40 < couf> if you've edited a file, that's changed on the server aswell, it'll try to merge the edits 19:40 < couf> if you've got the luck of editing in the same part of the file this'll give a conflict, which must be resolved as fast as possible 19:41 * couf notes: conflicts don't really happen around here 19:41 < couf> so once you're done editing, or just updated a file 19:42 < couf> you should commit it back to the repository 19:42 < couf> if you've added files, you should use "cvs add ..." to let cvs know these files should become part of the repo 19:43 < JonRob> from the appropriate local directory? 19:43 < couf> if you want to remove files, don't just "rm"-delete them, use "cvs remove " 19:43 < couf> JonRob: not per se, but best pratice 19:43 < JonRob> ok 19:44 < couf> what's also a best practice is doing an update before committing, as to avoid conflicts when committing 19:44 < couf> so how to commit: 'cvs co -m "" ' 19:45 < JonRob> couf: one second... 19:45 < JonRob> to do an update: cvs up 19:45 < JonRob> ? 19:45 < couf> jep 19:45 < JonRob> and that won't erase your changes? 19:45 < couf> no, it checks for local modifications, and keeps does 19:45 < couf> s/does/thoose 19:46 < JonRob> heh, cool 19:47 < couf> okay so is basicly a message you enter explaining your commit 19:47 < JonRob> (cool - cvs co -c just worked!) 19:47 < couf> neet :) 19:48 < couf> ow hang on, made a mistake above: it shoud be 'cvs ci -m "" ' 19:48 < couf> co = checkout, ci = commit 19:48 < couf> you can use "cvs checkout" and "cvs commit" aswell btw 19:48 < couf> and "cvs update" 19:48 < JonRob> ok 19:49 < couf> somewhat clear? 19:49 < JonRob> yeah crystal 19:49 < couf> cool :-) 19:50 < JonRob> - do they commit specific files? 19:50 < JonRob> can you commit entire directory? 19:50 < couf> you can, yes 19:50 < couf> which is sometimes easy, iirc it even works recursivly 19:51 < JonRob> awesome - and you don't need to specify -r or anything? 19:51 < couf> ah no, it's -R 19:51 < couf> damm, that's why it never worked :-/ 19:52 < couf> heh, ow well, now I know again 19:52 < JonRob> ha yeah...you're learning too :D 19:52 < couf> so to summurize: first check out a directory (a one-time thing) 19:52 < couf> -> keep your checkout's up to date with "cvs up" 19:53 < couf> -> editing files 19:53 < couf> (like you do with normal files) 19:53 < couf> -> adding a new file: cvs add 19:53 < couf> -> deleting a file: cvs remove 19:53 < couf> -> committing: cvs ci -m "" 19:54 < couf> there's a lot more to cvs (tags, branches) but we don't really use that around here 19:54 < JonRob> ok cool 19:55 < JonRob> will cross that bridge if i ever need it 19:55 < couf> heh, yeah it took some time before I started to get the hang of thoose concepts aswell 19:56 < couf> but in the end: what you know now is quite standard for every revision control system 19:56 -!- |DrJef| [n=onefjef at fedora/Jef] has quit ["Leaving"] 19:56 < couf> as subversion, git, hg, bazaar, ... 19:56 < JonRob> *awesome* 19:56 < couf> the concept is the same, the name of the tool changes a bit 19:57 < couf> ow yeah, one more thing: you can always see the contents of the cvs at: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/?root=docs 19:57 < JonRob> that gives you something similar to cvs co -c? 19:58 < couf> not really, that's the actual repository layout 19:58 < couf> not everything has been made a module 19:58 < couf> it's largely old stuff that didn't make it into modules, so not to worry about that 19:58 < JonRob> oh ok...if i did need something that wasn't a module 19:58 < JonRob> i could check at http://... 19:59 < couf> yeah, and use the name of the directory as the checkout 19:59 < JonRob> cool 20:00 < couf> heh, any questions ;-)? 20:00 < JonRob> umm no i think you got it all covered! 20:01 < JonRob> oh, what about commiting something new to cvs? 20:01 < JonRob> i.e. the spins stuff 20:01 < couf> ah, right 20:01 < couf> actually you need to checkout everything (I think) to do this right 20:02 < couf> but I'll save you that work 20:02 < couf> you should actually create a top-level directory to hold everything beneath it 20:02 < couf> so that's "cvs add " 20:03 < couf> adding a directory committs it directly aswell 20:03 < couf> something that doesn't happen to a file, which you have to commit seperatly 20:03 < JonRob> ok 20:03 < couf> so I'll add the top-level directory for now, and a basic structure 20:04 < JonRob> and then i can just commit into that? 20:04 < couf> yep 20:04 < JonRob> ok awesome thanks :D 20:04 < couf> so how do you want that directory to be called? 20:05 < couf> respin-guide? 20:05 < couf> or revisor-guide? 20:05 < JonRob> yeah that's good, then we can add docs for livecd-tools and pungi to their if need be? 20:05 < JonRob> there* 20:05 < couf> ah right, so respin it shall be 20:06 < couf> ah btw, you should be subscribed to the fedora-docs-commit list 20:07 < JonRob> oh ok, i'll do that now 20:07 < JonRob> what does that do? 20:07 < couf> that sends a mail everytime a cvs commit happens 20:07 < JonRob> oo ok 20:07 < couf> with a diff showing what changed for a file 20:08 < JonRob> like wiki subscribed pages 20:08 < couf> something like that yeah 20:08 < JonRob> cool 20:08 < couf> so what language: en_US or en_UK? :-) 20:09 < JonRob> heh, go with en_US, will make it easier for everyone else and i think i get it right most of the time 20:10 < couf> stickster_work, quaid: could you guys add respin-guide to the modules, I can't edit the CVSROOT 20:10 < couf> JonRob: I've to go for a couple of minutes 20:11 < JonRob> couf: no problem 20:11 < couf> bb in 10 min 20:11 < JonRob> ok...i don't have too much longer this eve... 20:11 < couf> ok, maybe we should close this lesson, and continue another time? 20:11 < JonRob> but i feel like i get cvs now - at least until i start using it and finding places i get stuck :p 20:11 < JonRob> if that's ok? 20:11 < couf> yeah, no problem 20:12 < couf> if you get stuck, just jump in and ask 20:12 < JonRob> i'll do the log and put it on the list 20:12 < couf> all right cool 20:12 * couf closes 20:12 < couf> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hope it's OK - never done a log before (evening of firsts for me :D) Jon From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 7 21:13:20 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 14:13:20 -0700 Subject: RPM task In-Reply-To: <53a863600706012121r63a466e7va84e7764378c2cf6@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706012121r63a466e7va84e7764378c2cf6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181250800.3469.234.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-06-02 at 09:51 +0530, jose manimala wrote: > i am really interested in the rpm guide. i'd like to help > maintain it. i've been using rpm and have almost used all of the > feautres it has, i know everyone has. but since its up there on the > list and someone is needed to maintain it i am here. So just let me > know. i might need some guidance to get started!! Ah, yes, the RPM Guide. What a fantastic task to work on! It is an already-to-go guide in XML. http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/ Even if you are familiar with the pieces of CVS, XML, and DocBook, it is worth having a look through the IRC log posted today: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-June/msg00037.html You can check out the guide from CVS, it is the 'rpm-guide' module. It *may* need an update to match the current toolchain. We should also make an alias of 'rpm-guide-devel' as just the development branch. OK, but what about a team to work on it? There are two considerations: 1. What is going on upstream at rpm.org? Do they want to help contribute? Do they want to make this a part of the actual SRPM for rpm itself? 2. How to get started and attract a team? I do not know the answer to the first question/consideration. There are some rpm.org folks here, if they can speak up; if you know who they are, please point their attention here for this discussion. More below ... As for the second question/consideration, that is an easy answer: just get started. Once you know where to start (in cvs.fedoraproject.org or $VCS.rpm.org) ... 1. Just start. 2. Open the document files - start listing what needs to be changed - change stuff you know needs fixing 3. Commit early and often - use verbose commit messages explaining *why* you changed content (since the "what was changed" is in the CVS diff). 4. Ask questions on this mailing list 5. Before you realize it, two or three other dedicated people will materialize. Just like that. More about upstream/downstream for the RPM Guide ... I'm not saying we toss the RPM Guide to rpm.org, "Here, this is your problem now." I'm pausing to consider where the best home for the source document should be. Once we have that figured out, we can resolve the technical situation. Remember -- Fedora is made up of thousands of packages that come from an upstream. Why not the same with the content? Anyway, it doesn't hurt to think about the connection. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 7 22:44:50 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 15:44:50 -0700 Subject: Revisor's what-is and spin how-to content (was 'what is v. how to') In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706070133k6d8fdc4crbd2d176a2570513f@mail.gmail.com> References: <1181183996.3469.151.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706070133k6d8fdc4crbd2d176a2570513f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181256291.3469.256.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 09:33 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey, > > I don't know but I'm guessing this was prompted by the Revisor doc? More accurately, it was prompted by your asking for input in one of the comment logs. I realized that, as I said, you were facing a common dilemma, and an open, common discussion would work best. The rest of this, then is, more about the Revisor/Spin Recipes documentation, Subject: adjusted accordingly. > I'll quickly add that with the Revisor doc, the unity team were > looking for something to be included with the RPM, so I guess a more > descriptive tone would be appropriate here? So, we have both types that need filling -- Revisor needs some default what-is documentation, and Fedora Docs thinks there should be a how-to/recipe-type document. Or am I presuming the latter? > Perhaps a set of docs that are more how-to in nature can be created > from the doc I've started now? I'd be happy to do them at some point. Sure. I think we need to specify the two different documents as separate Docs/Draft/ namespaces. There are already existing content bits we may be able to pull together for recipe-type content. The consequent creation of a what-is/descriptive document complements nicely. > Lol - saying that, had you not pointed it out it's something I'd > probably never have considered (so it was certainly not an intentional > choice for this doc!!) and I think it's something I've done elsewhere, > so it's good to know and I hope I improve it in my writing :D From the perspective that you have the specific goal of mainly providing a what-is viewpoint of Revisor, I found the tone and content informative. I'll have to go through it again with just that in mind, and maybe the only direct question I could have had for you was, "Is this what-is, how-to, or strictly recipes?" - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 7 23:18:35 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 19:18:35 -0400 Subject: an XSL/xsltproc-based TLDP toolchain? In-Reply-To: References: <1181223674.3733.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1181258315.3616.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 10:54 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Thu, 7 Jun 2007, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 07:22 -0400, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > > > i've just become a maintainer of one of the guides over at tldp.org, > > > and the current build infrastructure is based on DSSSL stylesheets, > > > whereas i'd really prefer to work with XSL and xsltproc. > > > > > > does anyone have a working toolchain that runs under FC6/F7 that > > > uses strictly the XSL-based stuff? thanks. > > > > I think this describes our build tools: > > > > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/docs-common/?root=docs > > > > If you have specific questions about how we're doing something > > please feel free to drop another line here! > > not trying to sound lazy, but what i was after was a top-level > Makefile that was the XSL-based version of the Makefile that's already > at the top of this project. i've reproduced it below -- you can see > how it's clearly DSSSL-based and, in fact, it won't even work under > FC6 given that the directory locations are just plain wrong. > > so i'm looking for an equivalent XSL version that would work under > FC6. am i making sense here? [...snip...] Probably, but I'm just dense. :-) I think the "Makefile.common" file has the targets in which you're interested. We have "html" and "html-nochunks" targets as well as other assorted goodies. The docs-common folder can sit in or up to a couple levels above your source doc... you can see example usage at: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/example-tutorial/?root=docs -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 02:13:56 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2007 22:13:56 -0400 Subject: Introducing myself - Angel Ascanio - New member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1181268836.3616.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 13:26 -0400, Angel Ascanio wrote: > Good afternoon. > > According to the information published in > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SelfIntroduction, I want to > introduce myself to become a member/collaborator of the Fedora Project as a > TRANSLATOR in the Spanish language; so please find a recap about myself: Thanks Angel! Nice to have you aboard. You will probably want to also check out the Localization (Translation) Project at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N Welcome! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi Fri Jun 8 07:13:40 2007 From: vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi (Ville-Pekka Vainio) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:13:40 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: Ville-Pekka Vainio (and something about my summer project) Message-ID: <200706081013.41119.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Hi all, I have already been doing Finnish translations and hanging out in #fedora-docs for a while, but I haven't posted a self-introduction yet, so here it is. I'm a Computer Science major at the University of Helsinki. During the academic year I live in Helsinki but now during the summer I'll be staying at my parent's place in Kuopio, Eastern Finland. The time zone here is EEST, that's UTC + 3. I have just finished all the courses required for a B.Sc. degree, I will officially graduate in the fall and then begin my M.Sc. studies. I have used Fedora since FC2, Fedora was also the first distribution I've ever installed. I installed Fedora just because I really liked using the Linux installation at the CS Department, which was and still is Fedora based. I've been in the Translation Project for bit more than a year now, doing GUI translations. I joined originally because I wanted pirut in Finnish, but I think I've done some translations to nearly every module there is in translation CVS during this time. Translating documentation to Finnish is also the reason I joined the Docs project. I translated release-notes, about-fedora, readme and readme-burning-isos for Fedora 7 and contributed to the homepage translation. Besides Fedora, I've also done Finnish translations for CMS Made Simple and KDE. I'm closely following the LinuxTV and VDR projects, since I'm running a personal video recorder box based on FC6 and those projects. Two of my remote control related patches have made it to kernel via the LinuxTV project :) I first started programming about 10 years ago and have been doing it more actively for the last five or six years. The languages I know best are Java, C and C++, Python and PHP. Here's my GPG fingerprint: pub 1024D/00E249C3 2007-03-16 [expires: 2008-03-15] Key fingerprint = 7BEE AC1C 3E2C B29F F9D1 2ED7 CB89 F00F 00E2 49C3 uid Ville-Pekka Vainio sub 2048g/F68EB3FD 2007-03-16 [expires: 2008-03-15] Then something about my summer project. I was chosen to take part in an event called Summercode Finland 2007. The basic idea is similar to GSoC, but as the name suggests, this is for Finnish university students. The event is organized by COSS, The Finnish Centre for Open Source Solutions. My project is about extending MoinMoin to support publication and editing of man/info pages. The initial idea came from FedoraBounties and Karsten, who's also mentoring me during this project. Here are some links about the project: - My project page at Fedora Wiki - My project page at Moin wiki, this will propably be more about technical details than the Fedora wiki page. - Summercode Finland main page My IRC nick is vpv and I'm usually in #fedora-docs. Feel free to contact me, my intention is to work closely with both Fedora and Moin communities. -- Ville-Pekka Vainio vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 07:16:41 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:16:41 +0300 Subject: CVS walk through and spins in IRC In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706071230x44086f08pb83aa0f523e97cab@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0706041355x5ffe51a8s61b6bacede48db6@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706042257h617aad8fq44948bfacaf9ef5c@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706051140u175cb275jaa19a7aa384798c3@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706051157x7f301217vde8d5090dd9e00dc@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706071230x44086f08pb83aa0f523e97cab@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706080016s5e9045f8h333a2f1a6fa0839@mail.gmail.com> On 6/7/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey all, > > Here's the log from the lesson: > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 19:17 < couf> > 20:12 < couf> > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- As promised, here is the HTML version at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/CvsLesson We may want to set a location under DocsProject to capture these special IRC sessions for posterity. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Fri Jun 8 07:19:15 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:19:15 +0100 Subject: CVS walk through and spins in IRC In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706080016s5e9045f8h333a2f1a6fa0839@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0706041355x5ffe51a8s61b6bacede48db6@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706042257h617aad8fq44948bfacaf9ef5c@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706051140u175cb275jaa19a7aa384798c3@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706051157x7f301217vde8d5090dd9e00dc@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0706071230x44086f08pb83aa0f523e97cab@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706080016s5e9045f8h333a2f1a6fa0839@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706080019o6e2d504dlf1d7bee88c5538d2@mail.gmail.com> Awesome :D > As promised, here is the HTML version at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/CvsLesson > > We may want to set a location under DocsProject to capture these > special IRC sessions for posterity. Would be cool. Thought it was a really good way to learn, though I guess it looses some of its impact once it's no longer interactive! Cheers, Jon From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Fri Jun 8 07:26:12 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 08:26:12 +0100 Subject: Revisor's what-is and spin how-to content (was 'what is v. how to') In-Reply-To: <1181256291.3469.256.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1181183996.3469.151.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706070133k6d8fdc4crbd2d176a2570513f@mail.gmail.com> <1181256291.3469.256.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706080026t5c41cfbbrfbd77de12b02829c@mail.gmail.com> On 07/06/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 09:33 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Hey, > > > > I don't know but I'm guessing this was prompted by the Revisor doc? > > More accurately, it was prompted by your asking for input in one of the > comment logs. I realized that, as I said, you were facing a common > dilemma, and an open, common discussion would work best. Lol yeah! Thanks for the reply too :D Like I'd said, something I'd not taken into mind before and will do in the future... > > Perhaps a set of docs that are more how-to in nature can be created > > from the doc I've started now? I'd be happy to do them at some point. > > Sure. I think we need to specify the two different documents as > separate Docs/Draft/ namespaces. There are already existing content > bits we may be able to pull together for recipe-type content. The > consequent creation of a what-is/descriptive document complements > nicely. OK cool. I can move the content around to do that. > > > Lol - saying that, had you not pointed it out it's something I'd > > probably never have considered (so it was certainly not an intentional > > choice for this doc!!) and I think it's something I've done elsewhere, > > so it's good to know and I hope I improve it in my writing :D > > From the perspective that you have the specific goal of mainly providing > a what-is viewpoint of Revisor, I found the tone and content > informative. I'm not sure it was intentional! But I guess it worked out OKish in the end. >I'll have to go through it again with just that in mind, > and maybe the only direct question I could have had for you was, "Is > this what-is, how-to, or strictly recipes?" I guess I've already answered that last question for the time being? I've gone through and finished marking technical terms too since your last post, and I think the content in regard to "what is" is almost finished. Anyway, thanks a million for taking the time to look through and give feedback! Jon From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 07:32:28 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:32:28 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: Ville-Pekka Vainio (and something about my summer project) In-Reply-To: <200706081013.41119.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> References: <200706081013.41119.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706080032q7d3b43a4k44204ea67821f8ae@mail.gmail.com> On 6/8/07, Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote: > Hi all, > > I have already been doing Finnish translations and hanging out in #fedora-docs > for a while, but I haven't posted a self-introduction yet, so here it is. > Tervetuloa! Welcome to the Fedora Docs Project! > I'm a Computer Science major at the University of Helsinki. During the > academic year I live in Helsinki but now during the summer I'll be staying at > my parent's place in Kuopio, Eastern Finland. The time zone here is EEST, > that's UTC + 3. > I'm also in UTC+3 at the moment, but a lot further south. > I have just finished all the courses required for a B.Sc. degree, I will > officially graduate in the fall and then begin my M.Sc. studies. > Congratulations on your degree > I have used Fedora since FC2, Fedora was also the first distribution I've ever > installed. I installed Fedora just because I really liked using the Linux > installation at the CS Department, which was and still is Fedora based. > > I've been in the Translation Project for bit more than a year now, doing GUI > translations. I joined originally because I wanted pirut in Finnish, but I > think I've done some translations to nearly every module there is in > translation CVS during this time. > > Translating documentation to Finnish is also the reason I joined the Docs > project. I translated release-notes, about-fedora, readme and > readme-burning-isos for Fedora 7 and contributed to the homepage translation. > Great work. > > Then something about my summer project. I was chosen to take part in an event > called Summercode Finland 2007. The basic idea is similar to GSoC, but as the > name suggests, this is for Finnish university students. The event is > organized by COSS, The Finnish Centre for Open Source Solutions. > > My project is about extending MoinMoin to support publication and editing of > man/info pages. The initial idea came from FedoraBounties and Karsten, who's > also mentoring me during this project. > That's a tool that would make life easier and encourage better built-in documentation. > Here are some links about the project: > - My > project page at Fedora Wiki > > - My project page at > Moin wiki, this will propably be more about technical details than the Fedora > wiki page. > > - Summercode Finland main > page > > My IRC nick is vpv and I'm usually in #fedora-docs. Feel free to contact me, > my intention is to work closely with both Fedora and Moin communities. > I've seen you in the #fedora-docs channel. Introduce yourself to me sometime. And good luck on the summer project. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 07:50:15 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 10:50:15 +0300 Subject: Revisor's what-is and spin how-to content (was 'what is v. how to') In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706080026t5c41cfbbrfbd77de12b02829c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1181183996.3469.151.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706070133k6d8fdc4crbd2d176a2570513f@mail.gmail.com> <1181256291.3469.256.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706080026t5c41cfbbrfbd77de12b02829c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706080050k640db1d7n87efabaef42c04ac@mail.gmail.com> On 6/8/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > On 07/06/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 09:33 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > > Hey, > > > > > > I don't know but I'm guessing this was prompted by the Revisor doc? > > > > You may already know this, but I had occasion to chat recently with daMaestro of Fedora Unity, who also is a contributor to the Fedora Project. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/RevisorChat for details. Basically, all docs on both the fedoraproject.org and fedoraunity.org sites are under the Open Publication License (OPL), so that there's no problem freely borrowing material from revisor.fedoraunity.org. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 13:57:46 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 16:57:46 +0300 Subject: FDSCo Meeting IRC log for 5 June 2007 Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706080657t160c3a7fjbcb49d86057d6aeb@mail.gmail.com> Did anyone get a complete transcript of FDSCo IRC Meeting log for 5 June 2007? John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs project From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 8 16:46:27 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 09:46:27 -0700 Subject: Revisor's what-is and spin how-to content (was 'what is v. how to') In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706080050k640db1d7n87efabaef42c04ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <1181183996.3469.151.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706070133k6d8fdc4crbd2d176a2570513f@mail.gmail.com> <1181256291.3469.256.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706080026t5c41cfbbrfbd77de12b02829c@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706080050k640db1d7n87efabaef42c04ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181321187.3469.287.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 10:50 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On 6/8/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > On 07/06/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > On Thu, 2007-06-07 at 09:33 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > > > Hey, > > > > > > > > I don't know but I'm guessing this was prompted by the Revisor doc? > > > > > > > > > You may already know this, but I had occasion to chat recently with daMaestro > of Fedora Unity, who also is a contributor to the Fedora Project. > > See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/RevisorChat for details. > > Basically, all docs on both the fedoraproject.org and fedoraunity.org sites > are under the Open Publication License (OPL), so that there's no problem > freely borrowing material from revisor.fedoraunity.org. +1 Our friends in Fedora Unity did that on purpose. :) If there is enough content that you wonder if you have to fork it, let's get together with the Revisor folks and work out where they want their canonical documentation to live, and can we contribute to the SRPM with content for /usr/share/doc/revisor-*. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Jun 8 17:04:06 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 20:04:06 +0300 Subject: Revisor's what-is and spin how-to content (was 'what is v. how to') In-Reply-To: <1181321187.3469.287.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1181183996.3469.151.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706070133k6d8fdc4crbd2d176a2570513f@mail.gmail.com> <1181256291.3469.256.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706080026t5c41cfbbrfbd77de12b02829c@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706080050k640db1d7n87efabaef42c04ac@mail.gmail.com> <1181321187.3469.287.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706081004s2e78f7bbw803542490b2dd042@mail.gmail.com> On 6/8/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 10:50 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > On 6/8/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > > > > > You may already know this, but I had occasion to chat recently with daMaestro > > of Fedora Unity, who also is a contributor to the Fedora Project. > > > > See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/RevisorChat for details. > > > > Basically, all docs on both the fedoraproject.org and fedoraunity.org sites > > are under the Open Publication License (OPL), so that there's no problem > > freely borrowing material from revisor.fedoraunity.org. > > +1 > > Our friends in Fedora Unity did that on purpose. :) > > If there is enough content that you wonder if you have to fork it, let's > get together with the Revisor folks and work out where they want their > canonical documentation to live, and can we contribute to the SRPM with > content for /usr/share/doc/revisor-*. > That's an excellent idea. What's the best way to arrange that? I'll do it if you point me in the one direction. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 8 19:59:15 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:59:15 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting IRC log for 5 June 2007 In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706080657t160c3a7fjbcb49d86057d6aeb@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0706080657t160c3a7fjbcb49d86057d6aeb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181332755.3469.355.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 16:57 +0300, John Babich wrote: > Did anyone get a complete transcript of FDSCo IRC Meeting log for 5 June 2007? Right, sorry, sure, I have one; as those who were there know, I had to drop out in the middle of the meeting. However, my client was logging; I'll send it right out. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From samfw at redhat.com Fri Jun 8 21:22:39 2007 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:22:39 -0400 Subject: How do I edit the Fedora Wiki CustomKernel page? In-Reply-To: <4669C52D.9000709@redhat.com> References: <4669C52D.9000709@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4669C89F.1090809@redhat.com> Chuck Ebbert wrote: > I want to update the documentation, but I can't > I'm in the EditGroup but it still says "Immutable Page". This is something I still don't understand... Docs folks - can this page be made generally editable? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/CustomKernel Thanks, Sam From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 8 22:50:26 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:50:26 -0700 Subject: How do I edit the Fedora Wiki CustomKernel page? In-Reply-To: <4669C89F.1090809@redhat.com> References: <4669C52D.9000709@redhat.com> <4669C89F.1090809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1181343026.3469.375.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 17:22 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > Chuck Ebbert wrote: > > I want to update the documentation, but I can't > > I'm in the EditGroup but it still says "Immutable Page". > > This is something I still don't understand... It's two purposes, coming across each other. Purpose 1 -- Fedora needs a "formal documentation location"; FDP needs a way to make it easy enough to contribute that is also easy to publish to the formal docs location. For the Wiki, right now, that means Docs/ is a formal publication location. For reasons that are ideally somewhat obvious, we don't want to give every contributor equal ability to override formal content. We don't do it for the kernel, we don't do it for Web front-pages, or parts of the infrastructure, or build system, etc. Purpose 2 -- Fedora needs a community documentation location where (nearly) anyone can edit, and it is recognized that the content is not vetted the same as the formal content is. Until we can separate those purposes into distinct locations (coming this summer to a docs.fedoraproject.org near you), we have to have Purpose 1 override Purpose 2. > Docs folks - can this page be made generally editable? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/CustomKernel That all said, we could technically set an individual ACL for this document so the e.g. all of EditGroup can edit it. I guess I'm in favor of that, since I know you are watching edits and will fix stuff, etc. But you have to understand it is a rather temporary fix, not a permanent solution. In the near future, if you want the Custom Kernel to continue being a main, formal piece of content instead of a community documentation effort, getting changes in to docs.fp.org/custom-kernel/ is going to require a different yet essentially similar process. Is all that OK with you? BTW, you may wonder why it matters to move content from community documentation to formal project documentation. Why keep two buckets? It's mainly a tooling issue. To get a document translated and available for packaging (stand-alone for install (yum install admin-guide) or as part of the distro), it needs to be in XML in CVS. Ask anyone who has tried to translate the Wiki ... as it changes daily ... to find out which system is currently working better. For anything where the Wiki or Plone is an editor for content directly in CVS[1][2][3], we'll be able to skip the other in-between. Still, though, in the end, someone has to be responsible for approving/pushing back changes to formal content ... just like with the kernel, etc. - Karsten [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/VillePekkaVainio [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/RiaDas [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/JonathanSteffan -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 8 22:52:37 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 15:52:37 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-06-05 IRC log Message-ID: <1181343157.3469.379.camel@erato.phig.org> HTML version of this is at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20070605 09:15 < quaid> 09:16 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda 09:16 < quaid> JonRob: you happen to be around? 09:16 < quaid> who else is working on the Live Spin Guide 09:16 < JonRob> quaid: yeah 09:16 < couf> we're having a cvs+xml tutorial on Thursday to start them up 09:17 < JonRob> i've started writing the text however 09:17 < JonRob> and it's about 2/3 the way through, at least covering revisor 09:17 < couf> JonRob: excellent 09:17 < JonRob> grabbed loads of stuff from revisor.fedoraunity and edited for docs style 09:17 < JonRob> (tried to edit :D) 09:18 < JonRob> quaid: and to answer your original question, I don't know 09:18 < JonRob> jmbuser was interested? 09:19 < jmbuser> One advantage of wiki collaboration 09:19 < jmbuser> jmbuser: is easy to determine state of a document 09:19 * jmbuser talks to himself again 09:19 < JonRob> i'm happy to throw what i've got so far onto the wiki 09:20 < JonRob> and then port to cvs 09:20 < jmbuser> JobRob: Let me know where it is in CVS and I can view it with yelp 09:20 < jmbuser> JonRob: (Freudian slip?) LOL 09:21 < JonRob> lol 09:21 < jmbuser> JonRob: CVS is fine 09:21 < JonRob> well it's not in cvs yet, cos i don't know how to get it in there :p 09:21 < couf> yeah, once you use it, you'll see that it works likewise as the wiki 09:21 < couf> it's just some more tagging 09:21 < jmbuser> JonRob: Then the wiki is fine for now 09:22 < JonRob> ok, it's on other comp so i'll throw it up later this evening 09:22 < JonRob> say about 1900utc +1 09:22 < quaid> IME, you'll get a faster kick-off if you go with the Wiki 09:22 < quaid> thenn convert 09:22 < jmbuser> JonRob: No problem 09:22 < jmbuser> quaid: +1 09:22 < quaid> there are many people who will not contribute outside of the wiki 09:23 < quaid> when we have Plone + Kupu, that will get traction, but in the meantime ... 09:23 < JonRob> quaid: yeah, we've been having a lot of discussion about best place to put it 09:23 < JonRob> on that subject 09:23 < JonRob> what's happening with plone? 09:23 < JonRob> and what's kupu? subject for another time? 09:24 * couf needs to run for some minutes 09:27 < quaid> sorry, jumped networks 09:28 < quaid> JonRob: Plone coming over the Summer, Kupu is an XHTML WYSIWYG editor built into Plone 09:28 < JonRob> cool 09:28 < JonRob> thnx 09:29 < quaid> ok, any else on this topic? 09:30 < jmbuser> I'm cool 09:30 < quaid> ok 09:30 * jmbuser loves irclog2html.py - thanks, quaid - see the agenda 09:30 < quaid> word! 09:31 < quaid> heh 09:31 < quaid> ok, on to the UG 09:31 < quaid> along with the Live Spin, this is our top focus 09:31 < quaid> status and thoughts? 09:32 -!- gomix [n=gomix at 200.84.243.8] has left #fedora-docs [] 09:32 < jmbuser> quaid: I have downloaded the GNOME and KDE Live CDs 09:32 < jmbuser> quaid: I'm about to upgrade to F7 09:32 < quaid> jmbuser: how about the team organization, etc.? 09:33 < jmbuser> quaid: Sorry, I just finished up my day job rush - and am now ready to roll 09:33 < quaid> right, end of Q is done :) 09:33 < quaid> making sure the team is enabled is #1 09:33 < jmbuser> quaid: Therefore, not much team organizing 09:33 < jmbuser> quaid: true 09:33 < quaid> then stuff happens while you sleep 09:33 < quaid> so, there have been requests for a "to do" list 09:34 < quaid> that would be a great place to start, then announce it to the list 09:35 < jmbuser> quaid: So far , no volunteers from the KDE team (AFAIK) - (hint to ongoing meeting in fedora-meeting channel) :-) 09:35 < jmbuser> quaid: Agreed on the "to do" list 09:37 < jmbuser> Now that I have the F7 spins, I will list the "default" apps for each spins and ask for writers 09:38 < jmbuser> quaid: Agreed? 09:39 < JonRob> jmbuser: how detailed are we going to be? 09:39 < JonRob> i've removed a lot of screenshots from the backend of the guide 09:39 < JonRob> and updated some content 09:39 * couf returns 09:39 < JonRob> and created sections for new material to be added 09:39 < JonRob> but i don't know how detailed we're going? 09:40 < jmbuser> JonRob: That is a good contribution on the GNOME side of the house - much appreciated BTW 09:40 < JonRob> jmbuser: np 09:41 < jmbuser> JonRob: Setting up Evolution is an example of how detailed I think we should go. 09:41 < JonRob> but...are we going to add more info about how to use evolution aswell? 09:41 < jmbuser> jmbuser: For instance, Firefox in itself is an ocean one can swim in for days 09:42 < jmbuser> JonRob: Not being an Evolution user, I would gladly accept more detail from someone more knowledgeable on the subject. 09:42 < JonRob> ha...i've used it in the past, but not so much anymore 09:42 < JonRob> so we're happy to have stuff about how to use it? 09:42 < JonRob> it being $program 09:43 < couf> beware that we've got to go indepth for all subjects if we're doing this 09:43 < jmbuser> I believe it still is a default app in GNOME - is that right? 09:43 < JonRob> yeah 09:44 < JonRob> couf: good point, but should we not be aiming for something like that? 09:44 < JonRob> or is that above and beyond? 09:44 < jmbuser> This is where it is important to determine the target audience - the beginning user 09:45 < jmbuser> My wife is a former mainframe programmer and pretty savvy, but she complains that I don't give enough detail sometimes 09:45 < couf> jmbuser: right on the button 09:45 < jmbuser> That's where walking through the program's basic features is valuable. 09:46 < couf> I'm feeling this will take a long run, maybe target F8? 09:46 < JonRob> i've added material to the firefox along those lines 09:46 < jmbuser> Then, you can point the user to other places for further information 09:46 < JonRob> have people looked at those pages? is that about right for detail? 09:46 < JonRob> because that wasn't *huge* amounts of work 09:47 < JonRob> couf: +1 i think 09:47 < jmbuser> JonRob: I will review what you've written and give you my feedback 09:47 < JonRob> jmbuser: cool 09:47 < jmbuser> Regarding F8, we finished and announced FC6 DUG about halfway through the release cycle. 09:48 < JonRob> ? 09:48 < couf> jmbuser: true that, but F8 schedule is not so long (5 months) 09:48 < couf> it would be nice to take our time, to get it right 09:48 < couf> no pun intended there 09:49 < jmbuser> couf: That's true, so maybe the release cycle is too short this time 09:49 < JonRob> worried about volunteering too much 09:49 < JonRob> but i'll have time over the summer to contribute plenty 09:49 < jmbuser> At the same time, we don't F8 to work with yet, so we need to start with F7 ASAP. 09:50 < JonRob> yeah 09:50 < couf> true, although a lot of this stuff doesn't really have to change 09:50 < jmbuser> s /don't/don't have/ 09:50 * quaid is about to disappear 09:50 < quaid> I'll keep logging 09:50 < jmbuser> couf: Also true 09:50 < quaid> can someone close the meeting when you can 09:50 < quaid> sorry 09:50 < couf> quaid: sure, cya around 09:50 < quaid> I have an unusual convergence this AM, off to my eldest's physics in motion demonstration 09:50 < JonRob> cheers :D 09:51 < jmbuser> quaid: Enjoy 09:51 < jmbuser> If no objects, I can guide us through the rest of the agenda 09:51 < couf> so can we agree on getting this *done* for F8, but starting with the topics that won't change 09:51 < jmbuser> s /objects/objections/ 09:51 < jmbuser> couf: +1 09:52 < couf> jmbuser: be my guest :-) 09:52 < jmbuser> On to topic 3 then - Administration Guide 09:52 < jmbuser> Who would like to cover that subject? 09:53 < JonRob> somebody volunteered for that recently didn't they? 09:54 * jmbuser checks wiki 09:55 < jmbuser> The only solid contributor so far appears to be Dimitrios Typaldos - no lead writer listed 09:56 < couf> yeah, that's a guide we should get some interested guys on 09:56 < couf> put out a list of topics (or refine it) 09:56 < jmbuser> Any volunteer from the FDSCo to drive it? 09:56 < JonRob> i'm sorry but i have to run 09:57 < JonRob> i'll post what i've done on the spin stuff soon 09:57 < glezos> I didn't know Typaldos was contributing to the admin guide... 09:57 < JonRob> until then 09:57 < JonRob> bye! 09:57 -!- JonRob [n=jon at 88-110-90-7.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has quit ["leaving"] 09:57 < jmbuser> JonRob: Thanks 09:58 < jmbuser> glezos: He put his name down for directory structure, but only quaid has touched it this year 09:58 < jmbuser> glezos: Do you know Typaldos by any chance? 09:59 < glezos> he has contributed a ton of translations in greek 09:59 < couf> I'm kinda tied up for the moment, in a month I could try to start driving it 10:00 < jmbuser> couf: Can you put yourself down as lead writer? 10:01 < jmbuser> couf: No pressure...:-) 10:01 < couf> heh, yeah, but it's a pending thing then, if someone else jumps in, I'm okay with that 10:01 * couf adds to takslist 10:01 < jmbuser> couf: That's fine - thanks 10:02 < jmbuser> Moving on to Topic 4? 10:02 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:04 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has joined #fedora-docs 10:04 < couf> yeah, move on 10:04 < jmbuser> sorry - lousy ISP 10:05 * couf notes with 2, this isn't a real meeting 10:05 < jmbuser> Topic 4: Release Notes update / zero-day drop status 10:06 < jmbuser> Who would like to address this topic ( we will speed things up, I promise) 10:06 < jmbuser> Any takers? 10:06 < couf> jmbuser: btw while I'm editing the tasklist, you up for mentoring the Live CD? 10:06 < couf> heh, some groups are committing stuff and ready to publish the web-notes 10:06 < jmbuser> couf: Yes, count me in. 10:07 < couf> and IG asweel 10:07 < couf> s/asweel/aswell 10:07 < jmbuser> couf: Great 10:07 < jmbuser> couf: Do we have names? 10:08 < jmbuser> Shall we skip topic 4 then? 10:08 < couf> yeah, I'll try to do some publishing tonight 10:08 < jmbuser> Topic 4, going... 10:09 < couf> move on :-) 10:09 < jmbuser> going...gone! 10:09 < jmbuser> Topic 5? 10:09 < jmbuser> couf: You are editing it as we speak? 10:09 < couf> iirc, quaid was gonna check this 10:10 < jmbuser> couf: the master task list, I mean 10:10 < couf> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks 10:10 < couf> yeah 10:10 < jmbuser> couf: Topic 5? or 4? 10:10 < couf> euh 5 10:11 < couf> we should skip this aswell 10:11 < jmbuser> couf: okay 10:11 * couf notes we're not at quorum anymore 10:12 < jmbuser> glezos: Topic 6! 10:12 < glezos> wha? 10:12 < glezos> :) 10:12 < jmbuser> couf: I think that's ok regarding quorum 10:12 < couf> hey, it's your idea glezos :-) 10:12 < glezos> tags? 10:12 < jmbuser> glezos: According to the IRC, you brought it up. 10:12 < couf> aye tags 10:13 < jmbuser> glezos: Yes 10:13 < glezos> well, before each release we'll tag the documents like this: 10:13 < glezos> cvs tag 'fedora-8' 10:13 < glezos> just to know which version we 10:13 < jmbuser> glezos: Your name is in green :-) 10:13 < glezos> which version we've shipped, and to have it checkout-able in the future. 10:14 < glezos> jmbuser: stickster said he wrote a 'make tag' rule, so it's quite easy 10:14 < couf> glezos: so we could maybe use a QUEUE and PUBLISH-tag 10:14 < glezos> couf: ? 10:14 < couf> for the publish-queue, so we only publish the stuff tagged PUBLISH, and QA happens to QUEUE 10:15 < jmbuser> couf: "yay for tagging :)" 10:15 < couf> something analogic with the LIVE tagging for the websites 10:15 < couf> jmbuser: I'm all up for tags and branches :-) 10:15 < jmbuser> couf: Sounds good - is it difficult to implement? 10:16 < couf> not really, it's basicly part of cvs 10:16 < glezos> couf: Do we need tagging to decide whether something is publishable? I guess an email on the list or a wiki page would suffice, right? 10:16 * jmbuser noticed that glezos already answered the question 10:16 < couf> glezos: it could automate the process 10:17 < couf> send an e-mail to foo to QA something, let him publish -> script that does live tagging to website 10:18 < jmbuser> More automation is good - since there's no quorum, we can bring it up on the list for agreement 10:18 < jmbuser> You've got my vote 10:18 < couf> yeah +1 to list-decission 10:19 < jmbuser> Should we conclude the meeting? or any more topics? 10:19 < glezos> sorry, I didn't get what needs decision 10:19 < couf> actually, as I understand it, glezos you're basiclly talking about tagging something, whilst it's branching 10:19 < couf> glezos: idea of using tags as publishing mechanism 10:19 < jmbuser> glezos: +1 10:20 < glezos> couf: tags would be useful if for example, we had a file saying: "*this* version of the document gets published *there*".. and fully automate it. 10:20 < glezos> Soneone has to write that script though. :) 10:21 < couf> heh, yeah, that's why it's an idea ;-) 10:21 < jmbuser> I think Stickster can handle it - but we have to check with him 10:22 < jmbuser> Okay - shall we adjourn the meeting? 10:22 < couf> you know what, I'll ponder my head around it, send it to the list and we'll see what happens 10:22 < jmbuser> couf: Sounds good 10:23 < couf> jmbuser: close it ;-) 10:23 < jmbuser> 5... 10:23 < jmbuser> 4... 10:23 < jmbuser> 3... 10:23 < jmbuser> 2... 10:23 < jmbuser> 1... 10:23 < jmbuser> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 8 23:05:05 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:05:05 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Ville-Pekka Vainio (and something about my summer project) In-Reply-To: <200706081013.41119.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> References: <200706081013.41119.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <1181343905.3469.387.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 10:13 +0300, Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote: > Hi all, > > I have already been doing Finnish translations and hanging out in #fedora-docs > for a while, but I haven't posted a self-introduction yet, so here it is. Welcome! > My project is about extending MoinMoin to support publication and editing of > man/info pages. The initial idea came from FedoraBounties and Karsten, who's > also mentoring me during this project. You are now linked in from the main Fedora page on all things Summer and coding: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007 We have a great Summer ahead of us for Fedora content. Very committed students who also happen to have solid grounding in the Fedora community. We are moving *very far* with improvements to the Fedora content process. More ways to write and edit! More content to edit from packages! More people can push content to docs.fedoraproject.org! All one version control system! All translatable with a very nice Web UI for project tracking! I'm running out of exclamation points, and the month has only just begun. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 8 23:06:47 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 16:06:47 -0700 Subject: Revisor's what-is and spin how-to content (was 'what is v. how to') In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706081004s2e78f7bbw803542490b2dd042@mail.gmail.com> References: <1181183996.3469.151.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706070133k6d8fdc4crbd2d176a2570513f@mail.gmail.com> <1181256291.3469.256.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706080026t5c41cfbbrfbd77de12b02829c@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706080050k640db1d7n87efabaef42c04ac@mail.gmail.com> <1181321187.3469.287.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0706081004s2e78f7bbw803542490b2dd042@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181344007.3469.390.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 20:04 +0300, John Babich wrote: > That's an excellent idea. What's the best way to arrange that? I'll > do it if you > point me in the one direction. Are kanarip and daMaestro on this list? Can we get them to come join the conversation? That's probably the best place to start. If we need to, we can work up a proposal for the revisor-list, keep 'um all in the loops. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jun 9 03:24:04 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 08:54:04 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 FAQ Message-ID: <466A1D54.4000602@fedoraproject.org> Hi See https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2007-June/msg00055.html. I would appreciate if someone here could list the FAQ in docs.fp.o. If you have access please link the FAQ from the frontpage of fp.o too. Other changes can probably wait till someone within the websites team bothers to look into it. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 9 03:46:53 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 08 Jun 2007 23:46:53 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 FAQ In-Reply-To: <466A1D54.4000602@fedoraproject.org> References: <466A1D54.4000602@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1181360813.3667.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 08:54 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > See > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2007-June/msg00055.html. > I would appreciate if someone here could list the FAQ in docs.fp.o. If > you have access please link the FAQ from the frontpage of fp.o too. > > Other changes can probably wait till someone within the websites team > bothers to look into it. I dig the FAQ, but didn't we just go through a redesign to slim the front page down so that it had far fewer links? I think linking this from docs.fp.o is a great idea -- from the front fp.o page, it's not. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jun 9 04:03:09 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 09:33:09 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 FAQ In-Reply-To: <1181360813.3667.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <466A1D54.4000602@fedoraproject.org> <1181360813.3667.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <466A267D.7050104@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 08:54 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> See >> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2007-June/msg00055.html. >> I would appreciate if someone here could list the FAQ in docs.fp.o. If >> you have access please link the FAQ from the frontpage of fp.o too. >> >> Other changes can probably wait till someone within the websites team >> bothers to look into it. > > I dig the FAQ, but didn't we just go through a redesign to slim the > front page down so that it had far fewer links? I think linking this > from docs.fp.o is a great idea -- from the front fp.o page, it's not. Atleast for sometime I think linking from the front page would help direct end users quickly to the answers they are likely to be looking for. These are not anticipatory FAQ's but questions I have repeatedly answered in fedora list and forums so they have a high chance to be actually useful. I think we should have a similar release specific FAQ for a month or two after release time linked prominently from the front page. If you strongly feel that this is unnecessary a docs.fp.o link is still better than nothing. Can you do that? Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 9 04:05:20 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 00:05:20 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 FAQ In-Reply-To: <1181360813.3667.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <466A1D54.4000602@fedoraproject.org> <1181360813.3667.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1181361920.3667.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 23:46 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-06-09 at 08:54 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > See > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-websites-list/2007-June/msg00055.html. > > I would appreciate if someone here could list the FAQ in docs.fp.o. If > > you have access please link the FAQ from the frontpage of fp.o too. > > > > Other changes can probably wait till someone within the websites team > > bothers to look into it. > > I dig the FAQ, but didn't we just go through a redesign to slim the > front page down so that it had far fewer links? I think linking this > from docs.fp.o is a great idea -- from the front fp.o page, it's not. To close the loop on at least part of this, a link is now up on docs.fp.o. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From josemanimala at gmail.com Sat Jun 9 05:11:45 2007 From: josemanimala at gmail.com (jose manimala) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 10:41:45 +0530 Subject: RPM task In-Reply-To: <1181250800.3469.234.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <53a863600706012121r63a466e7va84e7764378c2cf6@mail.gmail.com> <1181250800.3469.234.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <53a863600706082211w30e01fact691dc96599998cd3@mail.gmail.com> On 6/8/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2007-06-02 at 09:51 +0530, jose manimala wrote: > > i am really interested in the rpm guide. i'd like to help > > maintain it. i've been using rpm and have almost used all of the > > feautres it has, i know everyone has. but since its up there on the > > list and someone is needed to maintain it i am here. So just let me > > know. i might need some guidance to get started!! > > Ah, yes, the RPM Guide. What a fantastic task to work on! It is an > already-to-go guide in XML. > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/ > > Even if you are familiar with the pieces of CVS, XML, and DocBook, it is > worth having a look through the IRC log posted today: > > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-June/msg00037.html > > You can check out the guide from CVS, it is the 'rpm-guide' module. It > *may* need an update to match the current toolchain. We should also > make an alias of 'rpm-guide-devel' as just the development branch. > > OK, but what about a team to work on it? There are two considerations: > > 1. What is going on upstream at rpm.org? Do they want to help > contribute? Do they want to make this a part of the actual SRPM for rpm > itself? Hey they have listed it there for development.? Exact quote: " A more recent book by Eric Foster-Johnson, this has recently been released under the Open Publication License and a draft close to the published version is available. Participation in updating the Guide can be done via the Fedora Documentation Project. Discussions about moving this content and work upstream to rpm.org can occur on fedora-docs-list." I guess we can work on it dont you think. They are not planning on anything i guess. > 2. How to get started and attract a team? > > I do not know the answer to the first question/consideration. There are > some rpm.org folks here, if they can speak up; if you know who they are, > please point their attention here for this discussion. More below ... > > As for the second question/consideration, that is an easy answer: just > get started. Once you know where to start (in cvs.fedoraproject.org or > $VCS.rpm.org) ... > > 1. Just start. > 2. Open the document files > - start listing what needs to be changed > - change stuff you know needs fixing > 3. Commit early and often > - use verbose commit messages explaining *why* you changed content > (since the "what was changed" is in the CVS diff). > 4. Ask questions on this mailing list > 5. Before you realize it, two or three other dedicated people will > materialize. Just like that. I am starting out on the work on it. will put up a list of changes soon!! > More about upstream/downstream for the RPM Guide ... > > I'm not saying we toss the RPM Guide to rpm.org, "Here, this is your > problem now." I'm pausing to consider where the best home for the > source document should be. Once we have that figured out, we can > resolve the technical situation. Remember -- Fedora is made up of > thousands of packages that come from an upstream. Why not the same with > the content? > > Anyway, it doesn't hurt to think about the connection. Well develop the document... i think fedora is the best home for it because of th large number of contributors and people involved!! > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- Jose M Manimala S6 Computer science and engineering Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology Ph: +919846367850 http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 From three_hat at yahoo.com Sat Jun 9 20:50:42 2007 From: three_hat at yahoo.com (Three Hat) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 13:50:42 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Self-Introduction: Free Hat Message-ID: <777310.31561.qm@web63914.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Hello to all, My name is Ohad Feiner (aka Free Hat) and I should like to begin doing some translations of the documents in to Hebrw. I live in Tel-Aviv, Israel and am starting my Computer Science degree in TAU in a few months. Right now I am working as a customer support rep for an online game. My wish is to have the release notes and official documentation available in hebrew - thus making it easier for others to use this great distro (been using fedora [and linux in general] for almost a year now, had FC5 and recently upgraded to F7). This is for starters of course - perhaps someday more will come. I speak Hebrew and English pefectly (spent 2 years as a kid in the US) and I have had some non-professional experience translating from english to hebrew (mainly for the hebrew wikipedia). I had also writtem several english and hebrew e-zines a few years back as a BBS-kid (yeah, those days :). My computer skills are above-average (not in the linux world), but im not a wizkid - and cannot code too well (at the moment - though i have a good grasp of some concepts within that area). I am, however, relatively good with editing and design. I am not all that experience in Fedora or Linux yet, but I have a relatively good technical vocabulary, and hopefully this would do for translations :) Hereś my GPG thingy (I actually never used it bfeore and have just created one): [ziggy at kwest4 ~]$ gpg --fingerprint three_hat at yahoo.com pub 1024D/78867C2F 2007-06-09 Key fingerprint = 0EA3 018A ED01 B3C3 AFCF 0CAC 63FA E8C5 7886 7C2F uid Ohad Feiner (Free Hat) sub 2048g/B589C9A0 2007-06-09 Well, i guess this is it. Cheers everyone! Ohad (aka Free Hat) --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jun 10 02:31:30 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 09 Jun 2007 19:31:30 -0700 Subject: Introducing myself - Angel Ascanio - New member In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1181442690.3469.444.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-06-06 at 13:26 -0400, Angel Ascanio wrote: > * Birth : February 1970 I know this is silly, but I am always excited when someone's birthday is close to mine. :) I was born 15 February 1970. ?Bienvenudo! - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From raven at pmail.pl Sun Jun 10 14:09:51 2007 From: raven at pmail.pl (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgJ1JhdmVuJyBEcsSFZw==?=) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 16:09:51 +0200 Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "DocsProject/PublishQueue" by KarstenWade In-Reply-To: <20070610022652.405.95099@app1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> References: <20070610022652.405.95099@app1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> Message-ID: <466C062F.4020101@pmail.pl> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 fedorawiki-noreply at fedoraproject.org pisze: > fixed the confusion with versions and positions; renamed the fc6 tarball of the HTML to match naming conventions; please check and confirm I got it right; it may take up to 1 hour after this to go liv > F7 is now ok, but there is still F7 guide (from docs/install-guide/devel/) at FC6 location: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/fc6/pl/ There should be FC6 guide (from docs/install-guide/FC6/). Sorry for my English. ;) - -- Piotr "Raven" Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFGbAYvjBBsaE0M6qkRAkHmAKCt1YyOb0ZolaP2SYZuZqFR/tmcWQCglgFr 0erp26IoB0j0jl164Kj0ELM= =jd+Q -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jun 10 16:27:23 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 09:27:23 -0700 Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "DocsProject/PublishQueue" by KarstenWade In-Reply-To: <466C062F.4020101@pmail.pl> References: <20070610022652.405.95099@app1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <466C062F.4020101@pmail.pl> Message-ID: <1181492843.3469.456.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-06-10 at 16:09 +0200, Piotr 'Raven' Dr?g wrote: > F7 is now ok, but there is still F7 guide (from > docs/install-guide/devel/) at FC6 location: > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/fc6/pl/ > There should be FC6 guide (from docs/install-guide/FC6/). OK, fixing niw, thanks. Sorry for the confusion! I solved my side with: cvs co install-guide-FC-6 :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Sun Jun 10 22:41:42 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sun, 10 Jun 2007 23:41:42 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Free Hat In-Reply-To: <777310.31561.qm@web63914.mail.re1.yahoo.com> References: <777310.31561.qm@web63914.mail.re1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <466C7E26.5050005@glezos.com> O/H Three Hat ??????: > Hello to all, > > My name is Ohad Feiner (aka Free Hat) and I should like to begin doing > some translations of the documents in to Hebrw. Hey Ohad, welcome on board! :-) > My wish is to have the release notes and official documentation > available in hebrew - thus making it easier for others to use this great > distro (been using fedora [and linux in general] for almost a year now, > had FC5 and recently upgraded to F7). This is for starters of course - > perhaps someday more will come. Cool, as far as I know, we haven't had any documentation translated in hebrew, and the (essential) applications also lack behind: http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status?page=status&branch=HEAD&locale=he&essential=1 Make sure you check out the following two pages: * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Join * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation And put up your team at: * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Teams We hang around #fedora-l10n on Freenode in case you need something. Otherwise, feel free to email fedora-trans-list for issues regarding translations. -d > I speak Hebrew and English pefectly (spent 2 years as a kid in the US) > and I have had some non-professional experience translating from english > to hebrew (mainly for the hebrew wikipedia). I had also writtem several > english and hebrew e-zines a few years back as a BBS-kid (yeah, those > days :). My computer skills are above-average (not in the linux world), > but im not a wizkid - and cannot code too well (at the moment - though i > have a good grasp of some concepts within that area). I am, however, > relatively good with editing and design. > > I am not all that experience in Fedora or Linux yet, but I have a > relatively good technical vocabulary, and hopefully this would do for > translations :) > > Here? my GPG thingy (I actually never used it bfeore and have just > created one): > > [ziggy at kwest4 ~]$ gpg --fingerprint three_hat at yahoo.com > pub 1024D/78867C2F 2007-06-09 > Key fingerprint = 0EA3 018A ED01 B3C3 AFCF 0CAC 63FA E8C5 7886 7C2F > uid Ohad Feiner (Free Hat) > sub 2048g/B589C9A0 2007-06-09 > > > Well, i guess this is it. Cheers everyone! > > Ohad (aka Free Hat) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. > Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. > > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 11 14:56:46 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:56:46 -0700 Subject: mailing list admins Message-ID: <1181573806.3469.516.camel@erato.phig.org> I find myself in solo control of our two FDP mailing lists (this one and f-docs-commits). My practice is to always make sure that I have another mail list admin listed. I'm wondering, could we just make the rule, "All FDSCo members are named admins and have the shared password for all FDP lists"? The downside is the continuous "post by non-member" notices one receives, and if they get annoying, a simple filter makes them go away. I also try to go in once every few weeks and clear out the pending admin tasks, which are always about a mass delete of held-for-approval spam. Thoughts? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tchung at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 11 16:59:33 2007 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 09:59:33 -0700 Subject: mailing list admins In-Reply-To: <1181573806.3469.516.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1181573806.3469.516.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <369bce3b0706110959l1cfec9dbwb3d98d284d88e71b@mail.gmail.com> On 6/11/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > I find myself in solo control of our two FDP mailing lists (this one and > f-docs-commits). My practice is to always make sure that I have another > mail list admin listed. > > I'm wondering, could we just make the rule, "All FDSCo members are named > admins and have the shared password for all FDP lists"? > > The downside is the continuous "post by non-member" notices one > receives, and if they get annoying, a simple filter makes them go away. > I also try to go in once every few weeks and clear out the pending admin > tasks, which are always about a mass delete of held-for-approval spam. > > Thoughts? > > - Karsten Hi Karsten, I don't mind being admin for another mailing list. :) I already monitor several other fedora mailing lists as shown below: famsco-list administration fedora-ambassadors-list administration fedora-marketing-list administration fedora-freemedia-list administration fedora-websites-list administration fedora-livecd-list administration fedora-test-list administration fedora-news-list administration I set "Discard" for all non-member postings by default and forward to admins/moderators for review later. This saves *a lot* of time for admin tasks and catches 90% of spams. 1) Action to take for postings from non-members for which no explicit action is defined. (Details for generic_nonmember_action) Accept( ) Hold( ) Reject( ) Discard(X) 2) Should messages from non-members, which are automatically discarded, be forwarded to the list moderator? (Edit forward_auto_discards) No( ) Yes(X) Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Jun 11 17:11:23 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 12:11:23 -0500 Subject: BTW Guys Message-ID: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> If I haven't said it in a while. great job: http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.html Thats a lot of unique users seeing the docs site. -Mike From tchung at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 11 17:12:41 2007 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:12:41 -0700 Subject: BTW Guys In-Reply-To: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> Message-ID: <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> On 6/11/07, Mike McGrath wrote: > If I haven't said it in a while. great job: > > http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.html > > Thats a lot of unique users seeing the docs site. > > -Mike Windows 57.1 % Linux 35.1 % Interesting. :) -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From paulo.banon at googlemail.com Mon Jun 11 17:16:11 2007 From: paulo.banon at googlemail.com (Paulo Santos) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:16:11 +0200 Subject: BTW Guys In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> And we should take a look into this: http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.errors404.html Its not much, but it would help a bit :) Thanks, Paulo On 6/11/07, Thomas Chung wrote: > > On 6/11/07, Mike McGrath wrote: > > If I haven't said it in a while. great job: > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.html > > > > Thats a lot of unique users seeing the docs site. > > > > -Mike > > > Windows 57.1 % > Linux 35.1 % > > Interesting. :) > -- > Thomas Chung > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmahut at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 11 17:20:47 2007 From: mmahut at fedoraproject.org (Marek Mahut) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:20:47 +0200 Subject: BTW Guys In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <466D846F.5020609@fedoraproject.org> Thomas Chung wrote: > On 6/11/07, Mike McGrath wrote: >> If I haven't said it in a while. great job: >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.html >> >> Thats a lot of unique users seeing the docs site. >> >> -Mike > > > Windows 57.1 % > Linux 35.1 % > > Interesting. :) Another funny thing: Search Keyphrases (Top 10) -------------------------- disable selinux 569 2.4 % =) -- Marek Mahut Tel.: +420-532-294-111 (ex. 826-2046) Fedora Ambassador GSM: +420-731-076-674 http://www.fedoraproject.org http://www.jamendo.com ____________________________________________________________________ From tchung at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 11 17:22:00 2007 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 10:22:00 -0700 Subject: BTW Guys In-Reply-To: <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <369bce3b0706111022v5bdcbbb7p4f8c28246acca947@mail.gmail.com> On 6/11/07, Paulo Santos wrote: > And we should take a look into this: > http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.errors404.html > > Its not much, but it would help a bit :) > > > Thanks, > Paulo Right, http://fedoraproject.org/404 BTW, should we still point to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraMain for main site? Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 11 19:56:48 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:56:48 -0400 Subject: mailing list admins In-Reply-To: <1181573806.3469.516.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1181573806.3469.516.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1181591808.16199.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 07:56 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > I find myself in solo control of our two FDP mailing lists (this one and > f-docs-commits). My practice is to always make sure that I have another > mail list admin listed. > > I'm wondering, could we just make the rule, "All FDSCo members are named > admins and have the shared password for all FDP lists"? > > The downside is the continuous "post by non-member" notices one > receives, and if they get annoying, a simple filter makes them go away. > I also try to go in once every few weeks and clear out the pending admin > tasks, which are always about a mass delete of held-for-approval spam. The downside's not too steep. I think I'm on f-dsco-l admin roster (which represents slightly >0 work now) ;-) so I don't mind helping with this too. Putting all of FDSCo on this makes sense. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 11 19:59:39 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 15:59:39 -0400 Subject: BTW Guys In-Reply-To: <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181591979.16199.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 19:16 +0200, Paulo Santos wrote: > And we should take a look into this: > http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.errors404.html > > Its not much, but it would help a bit :) I see a *LOT* of these are people looking for "fc7/" in a hierarchy, which we should probably fix with a mod_rewrite rule on docs.fp.o. Can we log that as a ticket on OTRS? How else do we put these sorts of requests in nowadays? (He said, noticing that so many things have been done perfectly that he hasn't needed to do this in a while.) :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From couf at skynet.be Mon Jun 11 20:05:43 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:05:43 +0200 Subject: mailing list admins In-Reply-To: <1181591808.16199.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1181573806.3469.516.camel@erato.phig.org> <1181591808.16199.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1181592343.1114.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op maandag 11-06-2007 om 15:56 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Paul W. Frields: > On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 07:56 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > I find myself in solo control of our two FDP mailing lists (this one and > > f-docs-commits). My practice is to always make sure that I have another > > mail list admin listed. > > > > I'm wondering, could we just make the rule, "All FDSCo members are named > > admins and have the shared password for all FDP lists"? > > > > The downside is the continuous "post by non-member" notices one > > receives, and if they get annoying, a simple filter makes them go away. > > I also try to go in once every few weeks and clear out the pending admin > > tasks, which are always about a mass delete of held-for-approval spam. > > The downside's not too steep. I think I'm on f-dsco-l admin roster > (which represents slightly >0 work now) ;-) so I don't mind helping with > this too. Putting all of FDSCo on this makes sense. > Yeah, I'm okay with it and it does make sense to me somehow. BTW: Shouldn't we just kill f-dsco-l? Or do we need to keep the old logs of meetings? Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 11 20:05:54 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:05:54 -0700 Subject: BTW Guys In-Reply-To: <466D846F.5020609@fedoraproject.org> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <466D846F.5020609@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1181592354.3469.602.camel@erato.phig.org> >> If I haven't said it in a while. great job: >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.html >> >> Thats a lot of unique users seeing the docs site. >> >> -Mike On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 19:20 +0200, Marek Mahut wrote: > Another funny thing: > > Search Keyphrases (Top 10) > -------------------------- > disable selinux 569 2.4 % After looking at the stats for a while, I think this is one of the most important metrics on there. Dan -- we don't have anyone maintaining a canonical SELinux FAQ. If you google for "disable selinux", the top two hits are the FC3 SELinux FAQ and the RHEL 4 SELinux Guide. We need a new, permanent URL that we can work on getting up the ranks. fedoraproject.org/security/SELinux ??? fedoraproject.org/SELinux ??? selinux.fedoraproject.org ??? It can redirect to wiki/SELinux for now, but I think we want a better-maintained project and help page than what we get with the Wiki. That is, an actual Plone page. Easy to maintain as the Wiki, better tooling. To get it up the ranks, we may want to update the top page on all versions of the SELinux FAQ to point people at the page. But it all starts with getting the SELinux content under one location, and some regular contributors from this project helping out. I think the XML in CVS + archaic publishing method barrier struck again when it came to keeping the SELinux FAQ updated. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 11 20:09:57 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:09:57 -0700 Subject: mailing list admins In-Reply-To: <1181592343.1114.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1181573806.3469.516.camel@erato.phig.org> <1181591808.16199.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1181592343.1114.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1181592597.3469.607.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 22:05 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > BTW: Shouldn't we just kill f-dsco-l? Or do we need to keep the old logs > of meetings? It is effectively dead; the archives stay as archives. Anyone trying to join gets bounced to the admin, and the last message to the list is "here be deprecated". - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From notting at redhat.com Mon Jun 11 23:28:43 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:28:43 -0400 Subject: BTW Guys In-Reply-To: <1181592354.3469.602.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <466D846F.5020609@fedoraproject.org> <1181592354.3469.602.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20070611232843.GA9096@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Karsten Wade (kwade at redhat.com) said: > > Search Keyphrases (Top 10) > > -------------------------- > > disable selinux 569 2.4 % > > After looking at the stats for a while, I think this is one of the most > important metrics on there. FWIW, if you combine all the various permutations, SELinux accounts for over 10% of the search phrases that lead to docs.fedoraproject.org. Bill From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 01:39:52 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:39:52 -0400 Subject: Stagnant TQSG entries Message-ID: <1181612392.3708.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Four (4) of the 14 translations of the Translation Quick Start Guide are outdated and I believe they should be removed. Old and likely misleading information is damaging to new contributors' morale and process understanding. However, this has obvious implications for links. A future publishing platform should provide some safeguards here, since an out-of-date translation could be redirected along with a helpful banner message telling the contributor why he's reading the canonical version and not the translation he originally wanted. I'm going to add this to tomorrow's agenda; if for some reason I can't make it to the meeting please feel free to discuss, although I hope to be there this time. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Tue Jun 12 10:25:30 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:25:30 +0100 Subject: Stagnant TQSG entries In-Reply-To: <1181612392.3708.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1181612392.3708.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <466E749A.2080601@glezos.com> O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > Four (4) of the 14 translations of the Translation Quick Start Guide are > outdated and I believe they should be removed. Old and likely > misleading information is damaging to new contributors' morale and > process understanding. However, this has obvious implications for > links. A future publishing platform should provide some safeguards > here, since an out-of-date translation could be redirected along with a > helpful banner message telling the contributor why he's reading the > canonical version and not the translation he originally wanted. +1. With a WUI for docs trans stats (wow, what a killer of the english language!) and `-trans-commits`, monitoring POT files like this one would be easier. The TQSG needs an overhaul anyhow. -d > I'm going to add this to tomorrow's agenda; if for some reason I can't > make it to the meeting please feel free to discuss, although I hope to > be there this time. -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi Tue Jun 12 12:33:45 2007 From: vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi (Ville-Pekka Vainio) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:33:45 +0300 Subject: Questions regarding my man/info summer project Message-ID: <200706121533.50219.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Hi, (I'm CCing fedora-docs-list and Ivana Varekova who seems to maintain Fedora's man-pages package, I hope that's ok) As some of you may have noticed already, I'm working on a summer coding project that's about man/info page publication and editing with MoinMoin. There's a more detailed description here: I've hit a problem now and I'd like to get your feedback, I assume there are some people here who maintain man or info pages with their software. The problem is choosing the correct storage format for the man/info pages in MoinMoin. Publication of those pages is relatively simple, but editing them and getting the edits upstream is a completely other thing. For brevity, I'll be talking about man pages here only. It's possible to store the man pages "as such" (as described in man.7) and then display them through a Moin parser. But then users editing the pages through the wiki would have to know *roff, which probably isn't very newbie friendly. On the other hand, Moin would generate "upstream compatible" patches from the edits (almost) automatically. Another possiblity is to store the man pages in wiki markup. That would be very easy for the users to edit, as they probably already know it and it's simple. But how to get the changes upstream then? A wiki markup -> man source exporter would be possible to make, but it's probable that the man source generated automatically from the wiki markup would differ a lot from the original upstream man page source. So producing meaningful and clean patches that could be easily applied would be difficult this way. The main question here concerning this whole project is: what do we want from the project? Do we want the system to be an information source to man page maintainers ("this man page could have these points") where they could take material from and then add it to the corresponding man pages themselves? Or do we want the system to be a tool for the maintainers where they just take patches from and apply them with minimal human interaction? Of course the latter sounds better, but it's also a lot more difficult to implement. That's why I'd want some feedback from those who maintain man/info pages for their projects. If the system only produced wiki markup or plain text diffs, would you still incorporate the changes into your man pages (assuming they are reasonable content-wise)? Also, how would you maintainers describe your workflow when it comes to updating man pages? Do you usually get ideas from users and if so, how do you incorporate them into your man pages? Or are the man pages usually written by the same individual who maintains that specific piece of code? Even though it seems that the main "audience" for this system would be the users and administrators, it definitely wouldn't hurt if it helped the developers/maintainers in their work too :) Thanks in advance for your input! -- Ville-Pekka Vainio vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From couf at skynet.be Tue Jun 12 12:24:29 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:24:29 +0200 Subject: Stagnant TQSG entries In-Reply-To: <466E749A.2080601@glezos.com> References: <1181612392.3708.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <466E749A.2080601@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1181651069.8787.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op dinsdag 12-06-2007 om 11:25 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Dimitris Glezos: > O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > > Four (4) of the 14 translations of the Translation Quick Start Guide are > > outdated and I believe they should be removed. Old and likely > > misleading information is damaging to new contributors' morale and > > process understanding. However, this has obvious implications for > > links. A future publishing platform should provide some safeguards > > here, since an out-of-date translation could be redirected along with a > > helpful banner message telling the contributor why he's reading the > > canonical version and not the translation he originally wanted. > > +1. With a WUI for docs trans stats (wow, what a killer of the english > language!) and `-trans-commits`, monitoring POT files like this one would be easier. Ow definitely > The TQSG needs an overhaul anyhow. Yeah, but I guess waiting until the WUI is up and functional (well it already is, but you know) would be best. Adding more stuff will just complicate it later on. It's good as it is for now. > > > I'm going to add this to tomorrow's agenda; if for some reason I can't > > make it to the meeting please feel free to discuss, although I hope to > > be there this time. > Absolutly -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 12 18:26:04 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:26:04 -0700 Subject: SELinux content (was BTW Guys) In-Reply-To: <1181592354.3469.602.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <466D846F.5020609@fedoraproject.org> <1181592354.3469.602.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1181672764.3469.713.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 13:05 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > Dan -- we don't have anyone maintaining a canonical SELinux FAQ. I wrote up a better set of questions for Dan, and communicated it directly. He is recommending that we point upstream (selinuxproject.org) to a "What Makes Fedora Different?" page. (See below for that thread.) Personally, I'm not sure. I think having Fedora-specific how-to information should live *here*, referring to the upstream as the overall source for FAQs and such. But then it needs to be maintained here. And someone has to take all of Dan Walsh's blog entries, and some of James Morris's, etc., and include them, etc. One thing we can try is to take the latest content from the SELinux FAQ (FC5) and put it at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SELinux/FAQ. I hesitate to do it, but we could redirect all of docs.fp.o/selinux-faq.* to that page. That would peel off 10% of docs.fp.o traffic to the Wiki, but it's all the same hardware right now so the load difference may not matter to anyone. Then at least there would be a fighting chance for it to be updated ... On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 12:45 -0400, Daniel J Walsh wrote: > > Dan: > > > > I Cc:'d you on a discussion on fedora-docs-list. We need to resolve the > > fact that SELinux is a popular document hit, but the content is two > > releases outdated. > > > > Can you join us in that discussion? > > > > Ideas we had so far: > > > > * Find a writer to update it (slim success) > > * Dump the current version into fp.o/wiki/SELinux/FAQ and get you all to > > update it, then set up an Apache redirect to send > > docs.fp.o/selinux-faq.* to that page > > * Donate the content upstream to selinuxproject.org > > > > On the last, we're pretty sure it is valuable to have a Fedora-specific > > document. However, we _could_ push the content upstream and then do our > > own custom version of that, if upstream (selinuxproject.org) would be > > interested _and_ would maintain it. > > > > thx - Karsten > > > Yes I was trying to respond to that but I did not understand what you > wanted me to do. I think the best idea is to link to the > selinuxproject.org and have a What makes Fedora Different page. -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 12 18:28:00 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:28:00 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-06-12 IRC log Message-ID: <1181672880.3469.717.camel@erato.phig.org> HTML version of this log is at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20070612 09:03 < quaid> 09:04 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 09:06 < BobJensen> stale docs... Fresh Docs are better 09:06 < quaid> :) 09:06 < quaid> stickster_work: do you want to kick that off? 09:06 < jmbuser> +1 09:08 < BobJensen> Do we have examples of what does are now stale? 09:08 < glezos> Bob-Laptop: some translations of the TQSG 09:09 < glezos> we haven't found a way to monitor the "expireness" of docs 09:09 < glezos> even with per-release docs like the relnotes 09:10 < BobJensen> Looking at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ I don't even see our most popular document from what mmcgrath was telling us, "SElinux" 09:13 < glezos> maybe we should create a big, single table with all our docs, their published points and their last updates to help management? 09:14 < jmbuser> for reference only, +1 09:17 < BobJensen> I don't know what to suggest 09:19 -!- |DrJef| [n=onefjef at fedora/Jef] has joined #fedora-docs 09:19 * quaid is finishing a call, sorry he's distracted 09:19 < quaid> done! 09:19 < BobJensen> Do we have examples of what does are now stale? 09:19 < quaid> I think Plone best handle this 09:19 < quaid> or it's not a CMS 09:20 < quaid> but automagic notice? 09:20 < quaid> that's going to require CVS + CMS magic 09:20 < quaid> I recommend ... 09:20 < quaid> when daMaestro asks us onlist for requirements for Plone, we make sure this is there 09:20 < BobJensen> +1 09:20 < quaid> "Automagic notice of when a document is stale with translations" 09:21 < quaid> and maybe automagic changing of an icon "Document trans out of date" 09:22 < BobJensen> Should I call daMaestro and get him in here? 09:22 * couf returns after being called away, sorry 09:22 < quaid> BobJensen: you don't see that document because it hasn't been updated since FC5 09:22 < quaid> BobJensen: I'd like to do it onlist 09:22 < BobJensen> quaid: K 09:23 < BobJensen> quaid: that will help Jon track things also 09:23 < quaid> yep 09:23 * quaid sends that email he forgot to send 09:23 < quaid> yeah, I've already given him crap that I'm going to watch to make sure the RH internship doesn't distract too much :) 09:23 < quaid> right now, afaict, the Plone stuff is the highest priority activity in all of FEdora 09:24 < quaid> but that's just my opinion :) 09:24 < BobJensen> I see a need to get the SElinux Document updated 09:24 < quaid> I emailed dwalsh about it 09:24 < BobJensen> things have changed a lot 09:24 < quaid> he was on the Cc: of my last message 09:25 < couf> yeah, I'm guessing we don't have the real knowlegde to keep that up2date 09:25 < BobJensen> I would be willing to work with Dan to get the SElinux stuff updated 09:25 < quaid> that's the thing 09:25 < quaid> I think we need to reconsider how we do that document 09:25 < quaid> maybe we do need to move the FAQ to the Wiki for now 09:26 < quaid> it would be updated if it had been in the Wiki, because Dan has been working on that 09:26 < BobJensen> Dan's Blog has a ton of stuff in it 09:26 * quaid knows the evils of moving content backward to the Wiki, though 09:26 < couf> quaid: +1 09:26 < jmbuser> BobJensen: There used to be quite a few pundits recommending to turn selinux, which seemed to have prompted many of the searches AFAICT 09:26 < quaid> fucking developers ... 09:26 < jmbuser> s/selinux/selinux off/ 09:26 < quaid> if they would take 1/10th of their blogging time and make it actually part of the project ... 09:27 < quaid> jmbuser: right, and we need clear docs that say why those pundits are wrong :) 09:27 < jmbuser> Now selinux is very stable and is considered a big plus 09:27 < quaid> fwiw, I passed on the maintainership a while ago, and that person has dropped maintaining it, despite nagmails and such 09:28 < quaid> so, the best way from here 09:28 < quaid> is to enable the developers 09:28 < jmbuser> quaid: we should definitely nag the developers to write at least a decent doc which can be improved 09:28 < quaid> or ... push the content upward to the SELinux Wiki and likn there 09:29 < couf> can we link to the selinux faq? http://www.nsa.gov/selinux/info/faq.cfm 09:29 < BobJensen> We need plone 09:29 < BobJensen> period 09:29 < couf> and add some fedora-specifcs in the wiki 09:29 < couf> BobJensen: +1000 09:30 < quaid> couf: that one is useless to users, though 09:30 < BobJensen> on top of that we need plone to do what we need 09:30 < couf> quaid: didn't really check it, came up as top-google search 09:31 < quaid> yeah 09:31 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SELinux/FAQ 09:31 < quaid> we could dump all of the FC5 FAQ there and ask the Fedora guys to update it 09:31 < quaid> then setup a redirect from docs.fp.o/selinux-faq/.* to go there :) 09:32 < couf> or could we use the RHEL4 SEL Guide? 09:32 < quaid> http://selinuxproject.org/page/Main_Page 09:32 < couf> opening that can again ... 09:32 < quaid> couf: that piece of shit :) 09:32 < BobJensen> yeah those worms are now snakes 09:32 < quaid> also outdated :) 09:32 < couf> hey it's better than nothing 09:32 < quaid> so, the question is ... 09:33 < quaid> does FEdora need a Fedora-specific how-to/FAQ? 09:33 < quaid> or should we donate the content to selinuxproject.org 09:33 < quaid> and redirect all stuff there 09:33 < quaid> that is, isn't SELinux generic enough to not need FEdora-specific stuff? 09:33 < BobJensen> aI think Dan would have to answer that 09:33 < quaid> true dat 09:34 < couf> yeah, we should give Dan some time to anwser and see from then on 09:34 < BobJensen> Having a "fedora" document does have some value IMO 09:34 < quaid> ok 09:35 < BobJensen> When most people search for solutions they are including "fedora" in the query 09:35 < quaid> true dat 09:36 < quaid> ok, dan isn't around, I'll email him separate to get his attention, 09:36 < quaid> ready to finish statle doc discussions? 09:36 < couf> so remove thoose docs (like ol' translations)? 09:36 < BobJensen> plus even if they are using DistroX and they do not include the distro name in the search maybe they find our document and give Fedora a look for their next distro 09:37 < BobJensen> +1 next item 09:38 < quaid> hmm 09:38 < quaid> remove old 09:38 < quaid> tough 09:38 < quaid> sometimes it's not neccesary, since the difference isn't important 09:38 < couf> heh, that's actually the basic question imo 09:38 < quaid> other times it is a big difference 09:38 < quaid> so, case-by-case? 09:38 < couf> yeah 09:39 < quaid> ok, um 09:39 < quaid> do we need to decide here? 09:39 < quaid> or can we discuss and decide on list? 09:39 < couf> I'd say list, could get some translaters attention and make them update 09:39 < quaid> that too 09:40 < quaid> for paul's specific question, I think remove and send email to f-trans-l 09:40 < quaid> ok, moving on ... 09:40 < quaid> so, we need to keep our momentum going with the current guides 09:40 < quaid> is anyone spread too thin to keep their momentum? 09:41 * quaid notices raven updated the TQSG trans for pl today 09:43 < glezos> quaid: translators need to be informed when the POT changes and these POTs should appear on the statistics page so that one can see where his language is lacking, how many strings behind etc. 09:43 < quaid> yep 09:43 < Bob-Laptop> momentum is at a crawl here but you all know that 09:43 < couf> heh that's where you come in glezos :-) 09:44 < couf> momentum is a bit slow here aswell, lot's of daily life, should be better in a week or two 09:44 < couf> when I'll try to get started with the AG 09:45 < quaid> well, we /= just FDSCo 09:46 < Bob-Laptop> BB in 5 09:46 < quaid> for example, jonrob is doing a lot lately, is he spreading himself too thin? should we recommend/ask him to focus on just one guide? 09:46 * quaid picks on jonrob as an example only! 09:47 < couf> aah good point 09:47 * quaid remembers his AOB was "FDSCo elections" 09:47 < quaid> maybe we want a gang-on approach 09:47 < quaid> all gang-on FUG, then all gang-on AG, etc. 09:48 * quaid thinks our TLAs are a bit risque 09:49 < jmbuser> quaid: +1 on concentrated approach - prioritize and conquer one at a time 09:49 < couf> hmm yeah 09:49 < Bob-Laptop> Back 09:50 < quaid> maybe we should 09:50 < quaid> I mean, I could contribute a bit to each guide in series better than in parallel 09:50 < quaid> anyone thing that is a bad approach right now? 09:51 < quaid> or other objections to it? expansions? 09:51 < quaid> I propose these priorities: 09:51 < BobJensen> quaid: I like the team work idea as long as we have a "master editor" to fix things like tone 09:51 < quaid> 1. SMG (split) => UG, AG 09:51 < quaid> 2. UG 09:51 < quaid> 3. AG 09:51 < quaid> sorry,w ait 09:52 < quaid> 3. SpinG 09:52 < quaid> 4. AG 09:52 < quaid> 5. Devel Guide and/or RPM Guide 09:52 < quaid> BobJensen: maybe that is the lead writer's job? and then an editor comes afterward 09:52 < BobJensen> quaid: Sure 09:53 < quaid> ok 09:53 < jmbuser> quaid: Does the editor do the XML conversion? 09:53 < quaid> hmm 09:54 < quaid> jmbuser: I think that is a team effort 09:54 < quaid> jmbuser: since it isn't automated yet 09:54 < quaid> no one is forced to help, but no reason not to :) 09:54 < BobJensen> I have no desire to write anything in the wiki at this point 09:54 < quaid> BobJensen: where do you want to write? 09:55 < BobJensen> quaid: LOL I don't even know 09:55 < BobJensen> I will figure that out and do something 09:56 < quaid> ok 09:56 < quaid> BobJensen: I asked jonrob (iirc) to get with fedoraunity.org to decide where the upstream was for Revisor docs 09:57 < quaid> check out the recent threads there 09:57 < quaid> so we have two separate live media needs 09:57 < quaid> 1. Help document the new GUI tool (revisor) 09:57 < quaid> - these should be the docs that are in the package (/usr/share/doc) 09:58 < quaid> 2. Write a Fedora Spinning Live Media Guide that tells how-to do some common stuff using these tools 09:58 < quaid> - "make a live CD" "make a custom distro" 09:58 < quaid> - 09:58 < quaid> - "make a USB live media that boots and shit" 09:58 < quaid> etc. 09:58 < BobJensen> quaid: Yeah we are a bit slpit on where we want upstream to be, I will force a decision, if they don't have one yet 09:59 < glezos> quaid: the last guide sounds like something that should be written on the wiki rather than on a guide. (freqent changes) 09:59 < couf> for the record +1 on the team effort idea 09:59 < quaid> BobJensen: we're cool with fu being the upstream, from a content view, IMHO 10:00 < quaid> couf: rockin' 10:00 < quaid> glezos: good enough for now, we can make a stub for where the Plone version lives 10:00 < quaid> since Plone has a WYSIWYG HTML editor, there is *no* reason to continue using the Wiki for docs drafting :) 10:00 < glezos> quaid: right. 10:01 < quaid> e.g. docs.fp.o/spinning-live-media/ has a link or a redirect to the Wiki version until we can Plone-ify it 10:01 < couf> hey maybe a sort of round trip, we do the guides, release time (relnotes and IG), we revise the guides again, blabla 10:01 < quaid> couf: yes 10:01 < quaid> couf: I thnk it is working out that way, sort of 10:01 < quaid> while it's nice to have all new content with a release ... well, stuff changes after the release, too 10:01 < quaid> if the community can edit the docs after a release 10:01 < couf> yeah, but this time do everything as team effort 10:02 < quaid> that is, we immediately copy over the old into the new and start updating live 10:02 < quaid> .... with a way to mark that content has been updated 10:02 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:02 < quaid> maybe it appears in RED if it hasn't been marked as updated for the latest release :) 10:02 < couf> absolutly 10:02 < quaid> we've hit our hour btw 10:02 < quaid> I can give Plone status in a few lines 10:03 < quaid> I asked Jon to get his requirements list from f-docs-l 10:03 < quaid> we need to heavily participate there, kick out a Wiki page later, etc. 10:03 < quaid> there is lots of existing stuff to work from 10:03 < quaid> he is waiting for Plone 3 release and availability 10:04 < couf> do we need to flesh out workflows etc? 10:04 < quaid> yep 10:04 * quaid pastes in Jon's email 10:04 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has joined #fedora-docs 10:04 * quaid pastes in Jon's email 10:04 < quaid> What I need from docs is a feature 10:04 < quaid> list. There are a lot of cool things we could do, but I would like to 10:04 < quaid> just do what we will actually use. Maybe something that would be helpful 10:04 < quaid> for everyone would be an example document workflow. Some example flow 10:04 < quaid> that shows how a document would make it from an end-users keyboard to 10:04 < quaid> our structured documentation platform. Some other things that would be 10:04 < quaid> helpful to me would be a draft of "where" we can edit documents from. 10:04 < quaid> Such, once a document is published to the platform.. does it leave the 10:04 < quaid> wiki (if that is where it was started)? Another question that is more 10:04 < quaid> technical, what VCS back-end are we wanting to use? What document 10:04 < quaid> storage format? Does anyone have any ideas on "states" we can put our 10:04 < quaid> documents into? How many teams will be working on a given document? How 10:04 < quaid> are we going to define roles? Are we going to be able to use FAS2? 10:04 * jmbuser is back 10:04 < quaid> 10:04 < couf> jmbuser: topic Plone update 10:04 < quaid> so, I asked him to bounce that to the list 10:05 < quaid> there is a certain amount of that existing under DocsProject/ 10:05 < quaid> and in our brains :) 10:05 < quaid> my only AOB 10:05 < quaid> is to say that it's time to start planning FDSCo elections and sucession stuff 10:05 < couf> Plone update -> list discussion 10:05 < quaid> aye 10:05 < quaid> heads up to those who missed it, RHT appointed me to the Project Board effective 1 July 10:06 < couf> 10:06 < quaid> coincidentally, I had already pledged to *not* run for FDSCo chair 10:06 < quaid> although I'll certainly run for the committee itself 10:06 < jmbuser> quaid: saw it - congrats 10:06 < quaid> thanks :) 10:07 < quaid> so, in the best interests of all, having me out of this seat without too much crossover is a good idea 10:07 < quaid> just so the chair here gets enough focus, which I don't give enough currently 10:07 < quaid> so, that was that, just that we need to pick a date, how about by next meeting? 10:07 < quaid> we can discuss on list as well 10:08 < couf> well yeah, the real elections would be in August-September (Feb + 6) 10:09 < couf> but we could use the intermediate to settle the new chair 10:09 < EvilBob> quaid: So you joining the board will mean that you will be at the next FUDCon, great 10:09 < jmbuser> quaid: Is there a rule for succession? 10:09 < quaid> hmm 10:09 < quaid> couf: oh, that long? 10:10 < quaid> I'm not trying to get out early :) 10:10 < quaid> I was thinking it was end of July 10:10 < EvilBob> the targeted release dates have been suggested 10:11 < quaid> ok 10:11 < quaid> how about we put this topic aside until the end of July 10:11 < quaid> it'll be here before we know it 10:11 < couf> aye 10:11 < EvilBob> I would hope that we would have Aug and Feb Elections 10:11 < quaid> 26 Aug is 6 months 10:11 < quaid> so it should be rolling by mid-August 10:11 < EvilBob> that would put our elections halfway between releases 10:11 < quaid> "Current schedule is the first two weeks in February and August," 10:12 < quaid> that is what the pages say 10:12 < EvilBob> right 10:12 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Policy/FDSCoElections 10:12 < couf> jep 10:12 < quaid> yeah, that was the point 10:12 < quaid> sorry, I forgot to read that page before talking it up here 10:12 < quaid> let's talk about this in 30 days 10:12 < quaid> any other bidness? 10:12 < jmbuser> +1 10:13 < EvilBob> If quaid needs/wants us to get a new chair before that I feel we should respect his wishes 10:13 < couf> EvilBob: +1 10:13 < jmbuser> +1 10:13 < glezos> +1 10:14 < EvilBob> the new chair would simply get an extra month or two IMO 10:14 < jmbuser> EvilBob: Is it an election or an appointment? 10:14 < couf> jmbuser: FDSCo decision 10:14 < quaid> true all of that 10:14 < quaid> I wasn't trying to squirm out early 10:14 < EvilBob> jmbuser: we had agreed that the FDSCo would choose their own leader 10:14 < quaid> I can wait 60 days 10:15 < quaid> but if you guys feel my attention is too split, let's fix it 10:15 < quaid> I dunnot yet what FPB is going to mean 10:15 < quaid> it might be the same plus a few additional meetings 10:15 < jmbuser> FDSCo decision is fine by me 10:15 < EvilBob> jmbuser: if someone is inteested perhaps a 2 month co-chair is a solution 10:15 < quaid> another good idea 10:15 < couf> yeah very good 10:15 < EvilBob> a breaking in period if you will 10:16 < couf> have a vice-chair like other-projects 10:16 < quaid> ah, yes 10:16 < quaid> we've gotten away with not doing that because, erm, RHT pays me to be on IRC during my work hours :) 10:16 < jmbuser> +1 10:16 < quaid> but it's not really fair to anyone, IMHO 10:17 < quaid> ok, steady on 10:17 < quaid> if there is nothing else ... 10:17 < EvilBob> rather than tabling this for a month how about we think on it for two weeks and adress ideas then 10:17 < EvilBob> a month is a long time 10:17 < couf> EvilBob: +1 10:18 < glezos> quaid: I've put up some issues concerning our docs source structure, but these could be discussed on-list 10:18 < EvilBob> if anyone is interested in being the new chair bring your resume to that meeting in two weeks 10:19 < EvilBob> Motion to close the meeting? 10:19 < couf> coolness 10:20 < quaid> EvilBob: good call 10:20 < couf> +1 10:20 < jmbuser> +1 10:20 * quaid notes for the Brits in the audience, "tabling" is being used in the American vernacular, "to put aside for discussion later" 10:21 < quaid> where in the Brit vernacular, 'tabling' means "to put the idea on the table right now for discussion" 10:21 < quaid> OK! 10:21 < EvilBob> interesting 10:21 < quaid> EvilBob: yeah, one of my favorites because of how (in)obvious it is 10:21 < quaid> more? 10:21 < quaid> no mas? 10:21 < couf> nope, close away 10:21 < quaid> deal 10:21 < quaid> 5 10:21 < quaid> 4 10:21 < EvilBob> wrap it up boss 10:21 < quaid> 3 10:21 < quaid> 2 10:21 < quaid> 1 10:21 < quaid> 10:21 < EvilBob> Happy New Year! 10:22 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From paulo.banon at googlemail.com Tue Jun 12 18:42:44 2007 From: paulo.banon at googlemail.com (Paulo Santos) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:42:44 +0200 Subject: SELinux content (was BTW Guys) In-Reply-To: <1181672764.3469.713.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <466D846F.5020609@fedoraproject.org> <1181592354.3469.602.camel@erato.phig.org> <1181672764.3469.713.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <7a41c4bc0706121142qf900454lcf4c7c3bfa661786@mail.gmail.com> Karsten, If you dont mind having a "noob" writer to start with this, i wouldnt mind to maintain it. I've allways been wanting to enhance my knowledge about SELinux, so i find this a good oportunity if you guys want of course. Thanks, Paulo On 6/12/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 13:05 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > > Dan -- we don't have anyone maintaining a canonical SELinux FAQ. > > I wrote up a better set of questions for Dan, and communicated it > directly. He is recommending that we point upstream > (selinuxproject.org) to a "What Makes Fedora Different?" page. (See > below for that thread.) > > Personally, I'm not sure. I think having Fedora-specific how-to > information should live *here*, referring to the upstream as the overall > source for FAQs and such. > > But then it needs to be maintained here. And someone has to take all of > Dan Walsh's blog entries, and some of James Morris's, etc., and include > them, etc. > > One thing we can try is to take the latest content from the SELinux FAQ > (FC5) and put it at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SELinux/FAQ. I > hesitate to do it, but we could redirect all of docs.fp.o/selinux-faq.* > to that page. That would peel off 10% of docs.fp.o traffic to the Wiki, > but it's all the same hardware right now so the load difference may not > matter to anyone. > > Then at least there would be a fighting chance for it to be updated ... > > On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 12:45 -0400, Daniel J Walsh wrote: > > > Dan: > > > > > > I Cc:'d you on a discussion on fedora-docs-list. We need to resolve > the > > > fact that SELinux is a popular document hit, but the content is two > > > releases outdated. > > > > > > Can you join us in that discussion? > > > > > > Ideas we had so far: > > > > > > * Find a writer to update it (slim success) > > > * Dump the current version into fp.o/wiki/SELinux/FAQ and get you all > to > > > update it, then set up an Apache redirect to send > > > docs.fp.o/selinux-faq.* to that page > > > * Donate the content upstream to selinuxproject.org > > > > > > On the last, we're pretty sure it is valuable to have a > Fedora-specific > > > document. However, we _could_ push the content upstream and then do > our > > > own custom version of that, if upstream (selinuxproject.org) would be > > > interested _and_ would maintain it. > > > > > > thx - Karsten > > > > > Yes I was trying to respond to that but I did not understand what you > > wanted me to do. I think the best idea is to link to the > > selinuxproject.org and have a What makes Fedora Different page. > > -- > Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 12 18:55:46 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:55:46 -0700 Subject: SELinux content (was BTW Guys) In-Reply-To: <7a41c4bc0706121142qf900454lcf4c7c3bfa661786@mail.gmail.com> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <466D846F.5020609@fedoraproject.org> <1181592354.3469.602.camel@erato.phig.org> <1181672764.3469.713.camel@erato.phig.org> <7a41c4bc0706121142qf900454lcf4c7c3bfa661786@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181674547.3469.730.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 20:42 +0200, Paulo Santos wrote: > Karsten, > > If you dont mind having a "noob" writer to start with this, i wouldnt > mind to maintain it. > I've allways been wanting to enhance my knowledge about SELinux, so i > find this a good oportunity if you guys want of course. Go, man, go! IMNSHO, the best idea is a dedicated writer and forge ahead with the existing XML. But there are some advantages to enabling the community to update, so you might want to convert to the Wiki and manually carry the diffs into the XML. It's easier to get updates that way than just about any other method (excepting some kind person editing the XML directly.) We can still take a bunch of the SELinux-specific content and push it upstream to selinuxproject.org; link to that as canonical; and focus our FAQ content on Fedora. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From amit.uttam at gmail.com Tue Jun 12 22:01:12 2007 From: amit.uttam at gmail.com (Amit) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:01:12 -0700 Subject: Working, Elegant DocBook to PDF Solution Message-ID: <90ee5fbb0706121501y46e6d1acv967db6a7c72bae7d@mail.gmail.com> Hey guys, I applied for a position in the GSoC project for Fedora. The title of the project is "Working, Elegant DocBook to PDF Solution." I was in correspondence with Karsten Wade throughout the application process. However, the last student slot was cut and this project was not chosen. A few days ago, I received an email from Karsten asking me if I was still interested in the project. I was very much interested and thus I am posting my original proposal (abridged - removed some items such as schedules) for the GSoC project here. If the solution sounds viable and applicable, we could definitely get the project going. Thank you for your time, Amit ******************* Application for Summer of Code 2007: Amit Uttamchandani ******** Synopsis ******** I will a propose a solution to convert DocBook XML files into PDF. The approach is a simple three-pronged solution that will focus on simplicity and extensibility. ******* Project ******* The solution involves creating a command line utility to accomplish the task described above. In its simplest form, the utility takes a DocBook XML source and converts into a PDF file. To accomplish this task, I decided to set a criteria for the finished product. ******** Criteria ******** 1. Simple 2. Extensible 3. Standard ************** Implementation ************** The three-pronged approach involves the following: a front-end, a parser and validator, and a PDF toolkit. First, the front end will be based on Python. Python provides a simple yet powerful development environment for implementing our utility. The command line tool would have following interface: docbook2PDF .xml .pdf Second, an XML parser needs to be utilized to parse the DocBook XML source. After studying various implementations, the standard Python XML parser expat is the best choice. Advantages of Expat include its speed in parsing, simple python bindings, and its implementation as a standard python module. Expat, however, does not validate XML files. To validate the XML source, xmlinit will be used. Third, the reportlab open-source toolkit will be used to output the parsed XML data structure into a PDF file. The reportlab toolkit allows for easy output of python data structures into a PDF file. Thus, once a DocBook XML source is parsed and validated, the resulting Python object can then be formatted and outputted to PDF file using reportlab. The above implementation provides a simple, extensible, and standard implementation for the python utility. The solution is based on standard implementation and does not try to over complicate the process. It is extensible because the command-line utility can be easily expanded to include additional options and features. ******** Road map ******** 1. Publish a more detailed description of the implementation and specification, including initial flowcharts and function descriptions to the fedora developers mailing list. Obtain feedback and incorporate suggestions into design. 2. Complete initial version of docbook2PDF utility that successfully validates and parses existing DocBook XML source. 3. Implement reportlab toolkit into docbook2PDF and successfully output parsed XML object into PDF. 4. Thoroughly test the implementation and make sure it meets the requirements and specifications. Write up documentation on usage of the docbook2PDF utility. *************** Future Road map *************** 1. Utility can be extended to batch process DocBook XML files. The utility can be passed a directory and convert all DocBook XML sources it finds into PDF files. 2. A GUI can be added using PyGTK to further extend the functionality of the utility. ********* Biography ********* My name is Amit Uttamchandani and I will be completing my Bachelor's degree in Computer Engineering this Summer at California State University in Northridge. Before my current internship, I had been working for the Information Systems department at the university. During this time, our group was given the task to perform an inventory of all the computers and peripherals such as printers and scanners in the Engineering department. The current tool used at that time was an Excel sheet. I found this to be quite disturbing. The data that we were collecting would be put to much better use if it were stored in a database. The entire engineering department could benefit from this data. Thus, I suggested to implement a web-based solution involving a PHP front end to a MySQL database back end. Now, everyone could input the data virtually from anywhere in a simple and easy to use web front end. Also, predefined queries are available to output the data into a PDF file, complete with charts and graphs. The hidden gem comes with Python and reportlab. As soon as the query is made, a python script was called to retrieve the data from a MySQL database and format it using reportlab and provide a link to the outputted PDF file. This whole process worked seamlessly and allowed our department to analyze how many computers where still using Windows NT or how many computers had less that 256MB of RAM, etc. The above project took 3 months during the summer to complete. The python and reportlab toolkit integration was truly a beauty that shined and impressed. I have been working with reportlab and python ever since to generate on-demand PDF files and reports from databases. I have also worked with Python and XML. I successfully created a Python script 'prop' to parse and propagate XML test case data from one project to another. The implementation used Python and expat to accomplish the task. Implementing this solution took around 3 weeks and the result was a stable utility. By using standard python libraries, I was able to develop using an OpenBSD system and still use the script in a Windows machine. That is beauty of Python. I have been involved with open source software ever since my exposure to Mac OS X. From that point on, I strived to use open source software wherever possible. After sometime I felt the need to return the favor the community and I believe this is an opportunity for me to give something back and be part of the open source ecosystem. ******************* From sdodson at sdodson.com Wed Jun 13 00:56:08 2007 From: sdodson at sdodson.com (Scott Dodson) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:56:08 -0400 Subject: Intro Message-ID: <1181696168.23532.20.camel@rage> Hello, My name is Scott Dodson. I live in Raleigh and work as a lab manager for Red Hat. No specific goals or qualifications, just a general geek with free time. I've been building a set of documentation for my own projects and find the Fedora docs to be a great resource. Every now and then I come across outdated pages I wish to update but I've never had an account. So now I've finally signed up for an account. Hopefully as I gain more experience with the documentation work flow I'll find an area to contribute. Cheers, Scott pub 1024D/99A958D8 2007-06-02 fingerprint 835A 0183 B4AC DC48 F606 AC0C 67CD 7973 99A9 58D8 From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 13 03:13:04 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2007 20:13:04 -0700 Subject: tix for docs tasks (was BTW Guys) In-Reply-To: <1181591979.16199.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> <1181591979.16199.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1181704384.3469.783.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 15:59 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 19:16 +0200, Paulo Santos wrote: > > And we should take a look into this: > > http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.errors404.html > > > > Its not much, but it would help a bit :) > > I see a *LOT* of these are people looking for "fc7/" in a hierarchy, > which we should probably fix with a mod_rewrite rule on docs.fp.o. Can > we log that as a ticket on OTRS? How else do we put these sorts of > requests in nowadays? (He said, noticing that so many things have been > done perfectly that he hasn't needed to do this in a while.) :-) I've been going nuts watching requests fly on mailing lists, so I am about to start a "use the ticket system!" campaign. This would mainly be for Websites and Infra, Docs and L10n next. Anyone object to use using OTRS? What for, you say? Well ... * Feature request * Document request * Formatting change * Email in a ticket when you have a document ready to push to publish Maybe this sort of thing is more useful for Infra/Websites-type projects? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From josemanimala at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 06:58:49 2007 From: josemanimala at gmail.com (jose manimala) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:28:49 +0530 Subject: cvsdocs approval Message-ID: <53a863600706122358l3fd352b2g34631dace57bbeae@mail.gmail.com> Hello, i am helping maintain the rpm-guide i need to be added to the CVSDOCS group. can someone please approve me for it. thanks -- Jose M Manimala S6 Computer science and engineering Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology Ph: +919846367850 http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 12:36:00 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:36:00 -0400 Subject: tix for docs tasks (was BTW Guys) In-Reply-To: <1181704384.3469.783.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> <1181591979.16199.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1181704384.3469.783.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1181738160.3609.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 20:13 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 15:59 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 19:16 +0200, Paulo Santos wrote: > > > And we should take a look into this: > > > http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.errors404.html > > > > > > Its not much, but it would help a bit :) > > > > I see a *LOT* of these are people looking for "fc7/" in a hierarchy, > > which we should probably fix with a mod_rewrite rule on docs.fp.o. Can > > we log that as a ticket on OTRS? How else do we put these sorts of > > requests in nowadays? (He said, noticing that so many things have been > > done perfectly that he hasn't needed to do this in a while.) :-) > > I've been going nuts watching requests fly on mailing lists, so I am > about to start a "use the ticket system!" campaign. This would mainly > be for Websites and Infra, Docs and L10n next. > > Anyone object to use using OTRS? > > What for, you say? Well ... > > * Feature request > * Document request > * Formatting change > * Email in a ticket when you have a document ready to push to publish > > Maybe this sort of thing is more useful for Infra/Websites-type > projects? I object. Why do we want yet another ticketing system for Docs? I was under the impression Wil Woods and Luke Macken were collaborating on a better, easier face for Bugzilla. Is there something that Bugzilla is not providing? People can make feature and document requests there because we have a docs-request component for it. We may not be linking to it well, but that's not Bugzilla's fault. We've got components for all our authored documents, etc., etc. This seems uncomfortably like the "let's make new lists" problem. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 12:39:27 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:39:27 -0400 Subject: tix for docs tasks (was BTW Guys) In-Reply-To: <1181738160.3609.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> <1181591979.16199.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1181704384.3469.783.camel@erato.phig.org> <1181738160.3609.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1181738367.3609.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 08:36 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 20:13 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 15:59 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 19:16 +0200, Paulo Santos wrote: > > > > And we should take a look into this: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.errors404.html > > > > > > > > Its not much, but it would help a bit :) > > > > > > I see a *LOT* of these are people looking for "fc7/" in a hierarchy, > > > which we should probably fix with a mod_rewrite rule on docs.fp.o. Can > > > we log that as a ticket on OTRS? How else do we put these sorts of > > > requests in nowadays? (He said, noticing that so many things have been > > > done perfectly that he hasn't needed to do this in a while.) :-) > > > > I've been going nuts watching requests fly on mailing lists, so I am > > about to start a "use the ticket system!" campaign. This would mainly > > be for Websites and Infra, Docs and L10n next. > > > > Anyone object to use using OTRS? > > > > What for, you say? Well ... > > > > * Feature request > > * Document request > > * Formatting change > > * Email in a ticket when you have a document ready to push to publish > > > > Maybe this sort of thing is more useful for Infra/Websites-type > > projects? > > I object. Why do we want yet another ticketing system for Docs? I was > under the impression Wil Woods and Luke Macken were collaborating on a > better, easier face for Bugzilla. Is there something that Bugzilla is > not providing? People can make feature and document requests there > because we have a docs-request component for it. We may not be linking > to it well, but that's not Bugzilla's fault. We've got components for > all our authored documents, etc., etc. This seems uncomfortably like > the "let's make new lists" problem. Oops, sorry to reply to self -- but I also wanted to say two additional things: 1. Did this answer my original question ("Does a mod_rewrite request go to OTRS?")? 2. The right answer to flying requests is "If it's not in Bugzilla, it doesn't exist." Something the development guys insist on that is very sane. Note this doesn't have to mean "File the bug or I'll ignore you"; it could mean "If you don't/can't file the bug, I will get it in there for you to tracak the work." At least, it should when you're the kindler, gentler subproject. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 13:49:30 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 16:49:30 +0300 Subject: cvsdocs approval In-Reply-To: <53a863600706122358l3fd352b2g34631dace57bbeae@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706122358l3fd352b2g34631dace57bbeae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706130649v598cff17l6d061b753c15bbe8@mail.gmail.com> On 6/13/07, jose manimala wrote: > Hello, > i am helping maintain the rpm-guide i need to be added to > the CVSDOCS group. can someone please approve me for it. > Jose, you are now approved. > thanks No problem - enjoy! John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Jun 13 14:45:31 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 09:45:31 -0500 Subject: BTW Guys In-Reply-To: <1181591979.16199.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> <1181591979.16199.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4670030B.8010508@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2007-06-11 at 19:16 +0200, Paulo Santos wrote: > >> And we should take a look into this: >> http://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs/awstats.docs.fedoraproject.org.errors404.html >> >> Its not much, but it would help a bit :) >> > > I see a *LOT* of these are people looking for "fc7/" in a hierarchy, > which we should probably fix with a mod_rewrite rule on docs.fp.o. Can > we log that as a ticket on OTRS? How else do we put these sorts of > requests in nowadays? (He said, noticing that so many things have been > done perfectly that he hasn't needed to do this in a while.) :-) > Yeah, send that right on to OTRS. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/tickets/customer.pl -Mike From guillermo.gomez at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 14:46:24 2007 From: guillermo.gomez at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Guillermo_G=F3mez?=) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 10:46:24 -0400 Subject: cvsdocs approval In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706130649v598cff17l6d061b753c15bbe8@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706122358l3fd352b2g34631dace57bbeae@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706130649v598cff17l6d061b753c15bbe8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <63a901070706130746w6c296fe7j74ce3a1e33158672@mail.gmail.com> Where's this guide published? cant find it at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ rgds Guillermo On 6/13/07, John Babich wrote: > On 6/13/07, jose manimala wrote: > > Hello, > > i am helping maintain the rpm-guide i need to be added to > > the CVSDOCS group. can someone please approve me for it. > > > Jose, you are now approved. > > > thanks > No problem - enjoy! > > John Babich > Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Ing.Guillermo Gomez S. http://fedora.gomix.org From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 15:58:53 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:58:53 +0300 Subject: cvsdocs approval In-Reply-To: <63a901070706130746w6c296fe7j74ce3a1e33158672@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706122358l3fd352b2g34631dace57bbeae@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706130649v598cff17l6d061b753c15bbe8@mail.gmail.com> <63a901070706130746w6c296fe7j74ce3a1e33158672@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706130858p771621a5of8c17ccd5d57beae@mail.gmail.com> On 6/13/07, Guillermo G?mez wrote: > Where's this guide published? cant find it at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/ John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From couf at skynet.be Wed Jun 13 16:55:36 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 18:55:36 +0200 Subject: cvsdocs approval In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706130649v598cff17l6d061b753c15bbe8@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706122358l3fd352b2g34631dace57bbeae@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706130649v598cff17l6d061b753c15bbe8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181753736.3509.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op woensdag 13-06-2007 om 16:49 uur [tijdzone +0300], schreef John Babich: > On 6/13/07, jose manimala wrote: > > Hello, > > i am helping maintain the rpm-guide i need to be added to > > the CVSDOCS group. can someone please approve me for it. > > > Jose, you are now approved. > > > thanks > No problem - enjoy! > > John Babich > Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project > Ha, this makes me wonder, anyone received an notification when jose requested cvsdocs? I didn't for that matter. Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From josemanimala at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 16:59:57 2007 From: josemanimala at gmail.com (jose manimala) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:29:57 +0530 Subject: cvsdocs approval In-Reply-To: <1181753736.3509.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <53a863600706122358l3fd352b2g34631dace57bbeae@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706130649v598cff17l6d061b753c15bbe8@mail.gmail.com> <1181753736.3509.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <53a863600706130959o357fbab4ucf6171bf4d45f827@mail.gmail.com> hmm.. that is true.... i wonder why that didnt happen... i went to the fas page and typed in cvsdocs... did i do something wrong?? On 6/13/07, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Op woensdag 13-06-2007 om 16:49 uur [tijdzone +0300], schreef John > Babich: > > On 6/13/07, jose manimala wrote: > > > Hello, > > > i am helping maintain the rpm-guide i need to be added to > > > the CVSDOCS group. can someone please approve me for it. > > > > > Jose, you are now approved. > > > > > thanks > > No problem - enjoy! > > > > John Babich > > Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project > > > > Ha, this makes me wonder, anyone received an notification when jose > requested cvsdocs? I didn't for that matter. > > Bart > > -- > Bart > key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 > -- Jose M Manimala S6 Computer science and engineering Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology Ph: +919846367850 http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 From paulo.banon at googlemail.com Wed Jun 13 17:14:27 2007 From: paulo.banon at googlemail.com (Paulo Santos) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 19:14:27 +0200 Subject: cvsdocs approval In-Reply-To: <53a863600706130959o357fbab4ucf6171bf4d45f827@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706122358l3fd352b2g34631dace57bbeae@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706130649v598cff17l6d061b753c15bbe8@mail.gmail.com> <1181753736.3509.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <53a863600706130959o357fbab4ucf6171bf4d45f827@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7a41c4bc0706131014j45c622e1yf46aaba6fe5f6edf@mail.gmail.com> Then another one... I requested cvsdocs yesterday and i received my own request notice, dont know about everyone else. Thanks, Paulo On 6/13/07, jose manimala wrote: > > hmm.. that is true.... i wonder why that didnt happen... i went to the > fas page and typed in cvsdocs... did i do something wrong?? > > On 6/13/07, Bart Couvreur wrote: > > Op woensdag 13-06-2007 om 16:49 uur [tijdzone +0300], schreef John > > Babich: > > > On 6/13/07, jose manimala wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > i am helping maintain the rpm-guide i need to be added to > > > > the CVSDOCS group. can someone please approve me for it. > > > > > > > Jose, you are now approved. > > > > > > > thanks > > > No problem - enjoy! > > > > > > John Babich > > > Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project > > > > > > > Ha, this makes me wonder, anyone received an notification when jose > > requested cvsdocs? I didn't for that matter. > > > > Bart > > > > -- > > Bart > > key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 > > > > > -- > Jose M Manimala > S6 Computer science and engineering > Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology > Ph: +919846367850 > http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr > GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 13 18:15:14 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:15:14 -0700 Subject: cvsdocs approval In-Reply-To: <7a41c4bc0706131014j45c622e1yf46aaba6fe5f6edf@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706122358l3fd352b2g34631dace57bbeae@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706130649v598cff17l6d061b753c15bbe8@mail.gmail.com> <1181753736.3509.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <53a863600706130959o357fbab4ucf6171bf4d45f827@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706131014j45c622e1yf46aaba6fe5f6edf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181758514.3469.838.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 19:14 +0200, Paulo Santos wrote: > Then another one... > > I requested cvsdocs yesterday and i received my own request notice, > dont know about everyone else. I approved yours. Everyone else in the queue may be a translator, who no longer need cvsdocs. We need to modify the docs to show that translators no longer need cvsdocs, unless they are writing original docs. There are some pieces that require cvsdocs to create files in docs-common. We need to just do that for the translators, maybe make out stubs for all languages. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 13 18:20:00 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:20:00 -0700 Subject: Intro In-Reply-To: <1181696168.23532.20.camel@rage> References: <1181696168.23532.20.camel@rage> Message-ID: <1181758800.3469.841.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 20:56 -0400, Scott Dodson wrote: > Hello, > > My name is Scott Dodson. > I live in Raleigh and work as a lab manager for Red Hat. > > No specific goals or qualifications, just a general geek with free time. > > I've been building a set of documentation for my own projects and find > the Fedora docs to be a great resource. Every now and then I come across > outdated pages I wish to update but I've never had an account. So now > I've finally signed up for an account. Hopefully as I gain more > experience with the documentation work flow I'll find an area to > contribute. Welcome, Scott. Always happy to see more @redhat folk here, we've been long underrepresented. :) We're working on updating the tasks page, which is where you'll find specific things to do. Otherwise, watching the Wiki, reading this list to help with reviews, and so on are good things to do. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 13 18:22:25 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 11:22:25 -0700 Subject: Working, Elegant DocBook to PDF Solution In-Reply-To: <90ee5fbb0706121501y46e6d1acv967db6a7c72bae7d@mail.gmail.com> References: <90ee5fbb0706121501y46e6d1acv967db6a7c72bae7d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181758945.3469.845.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 15:01 -0700, Amit wrote: > Hey guys, > > I applied for a position in the GSoC project for Fedora. The title of > the project is "Working, Elegant DocBook to PDF Solution." I was in > correspondence with Karsten Wade throughout the application process. > However, the last student slot was cut and this project was not > chosen. > > A few days ago, I received an email from Karsten asking me if I was > still interested in the project. I was very much interested and thus I > am posting my original proposal (abridged - removed some items such as > schedules) for the GSoC project here. If the solution sounds viable > and applicable, we could definitely get the project going. Amit, thanks for your continued interest. This is a great chance for us all to collaborate on something often asked for, a good PDF toolchain. The proposal is pretty well vetted, in that Paul, Patrick, and I went over all the concepts and agree that this is the currently best approach. We also think it is useful for our toolchain to support multiple methods for accomplishing a goal. There are reasons why one would choose passivetex, FOP, or ReportLab as ways to get a PDF. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Jun 13 19:08:19 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 22:08:19 +0300 Subject: Working, Elegant DocBook to PDF Solution In-Reply-To: <1181758945.3469.845.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <90ee5fbb0706121501y46e6d1acv967db6a7c72bae7d@mail.gmail.com> <1181758945.3469.845.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706131208l2dfc710dx391ad83793b972c7@mail.gmail.com> It would be great to have a completely free and flexible tool to do this. I'm a big fan of the PDF format. You may have seen this article on Linux Journal: "A guide to using PDFs on GNU/Linux", http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000235 I find CUPS-PDF (available in Fedora) pretty handy. Editing DocBook XML, then generating PDF, would be a very powerful solution. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jon at fedoraunity.org Wed Jun 13 19:25:21 2007 From: jon at fedoraunity.org (Jonathan Steffan) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 13:25:21 -0600 Subject: GSoC - Target Practice Message-ID: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> Hello, I am now announcing my availability to take RFEs. We will basically be targeting Plone 3 which has a lot of the features we want to use as a documentation platform. Please, we need to start a nice task list for me so I can budget my time between all of the projects I have going. Basically, I would like to as the docs team what they would like to see. Details such as final format (i.e. DocBookXML), VCS backend (i.e. svn, cvs, git, etc.), and *where* we can edit the documents once they hit the documentation platform would help me get a better idea of what we are up to. I don't want to program anything that we wont end up using. Also, and example document workflow would be awesome. Example: * User creates wiki object 1 on the wiki * People edit it for a few days/weeks and then it starts to become a usable document * Someone with access; Admin publishes the wiki object as a draft into the documentation platform - What happens to the content that *was* on the wiki.. can it still be edited? Is it read only, pulling its data from the doc platform? - Can we edit from both locations? (oh no... /me sees lots of work piling up) * The document goes through it's life-cycle in the documentation platform. This is a very flexible system as we can define a very strict/granular workflow (states, transitions, etc) for individual objects... primarily document content types. * Where do we go from here? Automagic "this is all our documentation" DocBookXML generation? Please, understand all of this is not point and click for me to setup... but it can be done. ;-) Jonathan "Your personal GSoC slave" Steffan daMaestro From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 13 19:30:07 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 12:30:07 -0700 Subject: Working, Elegant DocBook to PDF Solution In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706131208l2dfc710dx391ad83793b972c7@mail.gmail.com> References: <90ee5fbb0706121501y46e6d1acv967db6a7c72bae7d@mail.gmail.com> <1181758945.3469.845.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0706131208l2dfc710dx391ad83793b972c7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1181763007.3469.850.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 22:08 +0300, John Babich wrote: > It would be great to have a completely free and flexible tool > to do this. I'm a big fan of the PDF format. > > You may have seen this article on Linux Journal: > > "A guide to using PDFs on GNU/Linux", > http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000235 > > I find CUPS-PDF (available in Fedora) pretty handy. I haven't looked at CUPS-PDF closely, but does it handle other useful PDF conventions? * Table of Contents * Links rendered as footnotes * Control over the styling for improved print quality - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 01:19:48 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:19:48 -0400 Subject: Intro In-Reply-To: <1181758800.3469.841.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1181696168.23532.20.camel@rage> <1181758800.3469.841.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1181783988.3705.37.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 11:20 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2007-06-12 at 20:56 -0400, Scott Dodson wrote: > > Hello, > > > > My name is Scott Dodson. > > I live in Raleigh and work as a lab manager for Red Hat. > > > > No specific goals or qualifications, just a general geek with free time. > > > > I've been building a set of documentation for my own projects and find > > the Fedora docs to be a great resource. Every now and then I come across > > outdated pages I wish to update but I've never had an account. So now > > I've finally signed up for an account. Hopefully as I gain more > > experience with the documentation work flow I'll find an area to > > contribute. > > Welcome, Scott. Always happy to see more @redhat folk here, we've been > long underrepresented. :) +1 that, we only have a couple currently and we love all, serve all. :-) > We're working on updating the tasks page, which is where you'll find > specific things to do. Otherwise, watching the Wiki, reading this list > to help with reviews, and so on are good things to do. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks Right, I think you might also want to look at our recent meetings to see information on hot tasks that you might be able to help with -- particularly pig-piling on the "Guide" set of works that really badly need drafting/polishing/updating for F7 and beyond. More hands means lighter work, to use a Wadeism. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 01:25:26 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:25:26 -0400 Subject: cvsdocs approval In-Reply-To: <1181758514.3469.838.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <53a863600706122358l3fd352b2g34631dace57bbeae@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0706130649v598cff17l6d061b753c15bbe8@mail.gmail.com> <1181753736.3509.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <53a863600706130959o357fbab4ucf6171bf4d45f827@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706131014j45c622e1yf46aaba6fe5f6edf@mail.gmail.com> <1181758514.3469.838.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1181784326.3705.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 11:15 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 19:14 +0200, Paulo Santos wrote: > > Then another one... > > > > I requested cvsdocs yesterday and i received my own request notice, > > dont know about everyone else. > > I approved yours. > > Everyone else in the queue may be a translator, who no longer need > cvsdocs. We need to modify the docs to show that translators no longer > need cvsdocs, unless they are writing original docs. > > There are some pieces that require cvsdocs to create files in > docs-common. We need to just do that for the translators, maybe make > out stubs for all languages. This is a great point. This was actually committed a little while ago in CVS but I hadn't sifted through all my commit email to see it until just a couple days ago. http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/en_US/sn_accounts.html#sn-accounts-docs I immediately published a new 0.3.7.2 in quite a few languages. That's when I discovered the 4 locales that were *WAY* out of date, which prompted my issue for the FDSCo meeting on Tuesday re: stale translations. If you look at some of these locales you'll see some way out-of-date guidance. It's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem when you think about it: how does a new contributor figure out how to get involved to fix the document on getting involved? :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 14 01:37:53 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 Jun 2007 21:37:53 -0400 Subject: GSoC - Target Practice In-Reply-To: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> References: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> Message-ID: <1181785073.3705.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 13:25 -0600, Jonathan Steffan wrote: > Hello, > > I am now announcing my availability to take RFEs. We will basically be > targeting Plone 3 which has a lot of the features we want to use as a > documentation platform. Please, we need to start a nice task list for me > so I can budget my time between all of the projects I have going. > Basically, I would like to as the docs team what they would like to see. > Details such as final format (i.e. DocBookXML), VCS backend (i.e. svn, > cvs, git, etc.), and *where* we can edit the documents once they hit the > documentation platform would help me get a better idea of what we are up > to. I think DocBook XML is the only sane way to do this, yes. Right now our SCM is CVS but we are as flexible on that as any other part of Fedora. If everyone decides tomorrow we're going git, then we'd move to it as soon as practical (and someone more dev-savvy gave us recipes for doing it 98% guaranteed not to break stuff). The best idea for this would be, I'd assume, genericizing a function that could getattr() or otherwise be directed to use an appropriate SCM-specific function, to ensure long and healthy code life. > I don't want to program anything that we wont end up using. Also, > and example document workflow would be awesome. Example: > > * User creates wiki object 1 on the wiki > * People edit it for a few days/weeks and then it starts to become a > usable document > * Someone with access; Admin publishes the wiki object as a draft into > the documentation platform > - What happens to the content that *was* on the wiki.. can it still be > edited? Is it read only, pulling its data from the doc platform? Once ported to Plone, wiki pages should be either (1) expired/redirected to the Plone site, or (2) made read-only and subsequently generated/posted by Plone. > - Can we edit from both locations? (oh no... /me sees lots of work > piling up) I think this is madness, plain and simple. Plone will be just as easy (or more so) for newbies to edit, using Kupu and styles you+we provide that generate a substantial portion of the important XML tagging. The wiki simply cannot accommodate this without imposing large sets of non-mnemonic tagging "rules" that either (1) scare off contributors even more easily than DocBook XML if we insist on them, or (2) require moderate to large increases of work from DocBook-savvy editors to check and correct later. With Kupu and styles, almost anyone can improve tagging! > * The document goes through it's life-cycle in the documentation > platform. This is a very flexible system as we can define a very > strict/granular workflow (states, transitions, etc) for individual > objects... primarily document content types. I guess I don't understand this part well enough to comment on it meaningfully. Seeing this in action may be a breakthrough for me. I'm planning on being at FUDCon 8 and the following hackfest, if that's any help. > * Where do we go from here? Automagic "this is all our documentation" > DocBookXML generation? > > Please, understand all of this is not point and click for me to setup... > but it can be done. ;-) Well understood. Please continue to push back detailed questions, and we will do as much as we can to help. I'd like to keep ideas flowing here on f-docs-l as much as possible to keep the community involved, or at least aware, and I'm sure others feel the same. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 15 23:19:08 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 15 Jun 2007 19:19:08 -0400 Subject: New POTBASE definition Message-ID: <1181949548.4113.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've updated our Makefile.common with the capacity for a new "POTBASE" variable, in the event that we need the POT file for a module to be differently named from the ${DOCBASE}. This is the case for the following modules: readme readme-burning-isos release-notes These files use an all-caps ${DOCBASE} to generate files in the manner to which RelEng is accustomed. (There may be a point when we change this, but now is not that particular point.) Now our POT files can be named after the module name rather than the ${DOCBASE} which apparently is good for Dimitris and the new L10N WUI. Love all, serve all! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Jun 16 13:18:48 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 16:18:48 +0300 Subject: Working, Elegant DocBook to PDF Solution In-Reply-To: <1181763007.3469.850.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <90ee5fbb0706121501y46e6d1acv967db6a7c72bae7d@mail.gmail.com> <1181758945.3469.845.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0706131208l2dfc710dx391ad83793b972c7@mail.gmail.com> <1181763007.3469.850.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706160618r7d2a25dau273e585bfa2d968d@mail.gmail.com> On 6/13/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > I haven't looked at CUPS-PDF closely, but does it handle other useful > PDF conventions? > > * Table of Contents No > * Links rendered as footnotes No > * Control over the styling for improved print quality No CUPS-PDF, as far as I know, provides the ability to capture any output that is print-capable to a PDF file. What I was doing previously was generating a PS file, then using ps2pdf to create a PDF file. CUPS-PDF saves me from doing the additional steps and it creates output with text and which can be copied and pasted into another document, unlike ps2pdf. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 16 15:02:17 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:02:17 -0400 Subject: Candidate Schedule Message-ID: <1182006137.3600.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've published a candidate for a new documentation release schedule at the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule \=> includes http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule/8 Comments invited and appreciated. Note that we have about 6 weeks from today to collect info for the first one-sheet release notes. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Sat Jun 16 15:07:11 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 16:07:11 +0100 Subject: Candidate Schedule In-Reply-To: <1182006137.3600.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1182006137.3600.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706160807t71ed935erb7aaf79c1f759fe@mail.gmail.com> Not that I've got much of an idea about these things, but...what about adding to the schedule for other docs? i.e. UG, AG etc Might help to bring about some focus? I might be completely off the mark here and it's posted somewhere else! Jon On 16/06/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I've published a candidate for a new documentation release schedule at > the wiki: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule > \=> includes http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule/8 > > Comments invited and appreciated. Note that we have about 6 weeks from > today to collect info for the first one-sheet release notes. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jun 16 18:24:15 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:24:15 -0700 Subject: GSoC - Target Practice In-Reply-To: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> References: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> Message-ID: <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 13:25 -0600, Jonathan Steffan wrote: > Hello, > > I am now announcing my availability to take RFEs. We will basically be > targeting Plone 3 which has a lot of the features we want to use as a > documentation platform. Please, we need to start a nice task list for me > so I can budget my time between all of the projects I have going. Can you start with deriving a task list from here? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/JonathanSteffan Maybe just derive it into a new Tasks/ sub-page. Plone is an important part of that solution-set, but only a step along the way. So, for example, when looking at the i18n features of Plone, we have to decide if we are using them for just displaying l10nized content, or do they have some value to use beyond that. Otherwise, we're best off sticking with using Plone as a tool on top of existing l10n efforts. Similar with writing, except Plone has the *potential* of replacing the Wiki with the nice Kupu editor. To make it work with our systems, Plone needs to keep that XHTML somewhere where: * Either it sits in CVS directly and we modify our docs toolchain to pull POT/push PO from XHTML, or * The XHTML is converted to XML, then built back to XHTML for publishing > Basically, I would like to as the docs team what they would like to see. > Details such as final format (i.e. DocBookXML), VCS backend (i.e. svn, > cvs, git, etc.), After writing the above, I realize we pretty have to keep it all in the same VCS as our other docs, which means CVS. > and *where* we can edit the documents once they hit the > documentation platform would help me get a better idea of what we are up > to. I don't want to program anything that we wont end up using. Once content has e.g. left the Wiki, maybe we want it to be a one-way street? That is, it gets converted to XML and Plone handles it now. If you need to edit with a WYSIWYG approach, use Kupu. > Also, > and example document workflow would be awesome. Example: > > * User creates wiki object 1 on the wiki > * People edit it for a few days/weeks and then it starts to become a > usable document > * Someone with access; Admin publishes the wiki object as a draft into > the documentation platform Here is a dump. Please pull these and put them on a SoC/2007/JonathanSteffan/Workflows or /UseCases page. 1. Users write content in $EDITOR; when ready, they "Push Draft": 1.1 If in the Wiki, they have a new action that we push upstream to Moin, "Push Draft to External Toolchain", which is configurable; basically, choosing the option causes a script to run, so our script isn't in Moin, just the generic trigger. Our script then: 1.1.1 Uses Moin to convert to XML 1.1.2 Puts that in CVS (may need to gather some module info from the user) 1.1.3 Builds the document to XHTML 1.1.4 Pushes the XHTML into the start of a Plone workflow queue 1.2 If in Plone, "Push Draft" puts the XHTML into the start of a Plone workflow queue 1.3 If in CVS/XML directly, have a 'make cms-draft' target that: 1.3.1 Builds the doc 1.3.2 Pushes it Plone at the start of a workflow queue > - What happens to the content that *was* on the wiki.. can it still be > edited? Is it read only, pulling its data from the doc platform? Paul had some thoughts here ... My thinking is that any editing we are pushing from is likely to come from Docs/Drafts/, so it's clear it is not a canonical source. For something like Docs/Beats/, the Wiki source remains the source of content. However, once a draft is pushed, that draft goes into CVS and is tagged with a test/release-specific label. In that situation, the Wiki is a sort of pre-HEAD. We can review the Wiki-usage; maybe the Beats can be maintained via Plone instead. I tried to use the #REDIRECT feature for external (URI) linking, but it doesn't work that way. The idea I had was, once a document is pushed from the Wiki as a draft, we could turn the old page into a redirect to the new location. To do that, we would need a way to detect document names for URL creation, or create one according to guidelines. Maybe part of the use case/process includes a jump to an interstitial page (GatherFoo) for gathering information for the next step: Wiki => GatherFoo => Plone workflow CVS => GatherFoo => Plone workflow Kupu => Plone workflow GatherFoo would pull together all unanswered questions -- what is the final URL destination (maybe select or start from a drop down menu?), which editor's queue to put it in, is this a test or a release (alpha, beta, RC, GOLD, etc.) > - Can we edit from both locations? (oh no... /me sees lots of work > piling up) Part of me doesn't want to limit editing in the Wiki source (i.e., not turn it read-only.) However, this seems like a path to further insanity -- dead-end unmaintained pages, etc. Better to limit some Wiki freedom for the overall good? > * The document goes through it's life-cycle in the documentation > platform. This is a very flexible system as we can define a very > strict/granular workflow (states, transitions, etc) for individual > objects... primarily document content types. I understand what you mean from a CMS standpoint. We can version documents, specify an expiration date (where appropriate), and have the documents go through many states: Document_Foo_Lifecycle (Draft => Editor (approve or push back) => Published Draft; Update Draft => Editor => Publish Updated Draft; Loop last until satisfied; Expire Drafts; Final => Editor => Publish Final) What do you mean by "document content types"? > * Where do we go from here? Automagic "this is all our documentation" > DocBookXML generation? Some automagic we'd like to see in the doc publishing platform: * Autobuild of HEAD for all documents (listed in a special file somewhere?) as "docs rawhide"; could be done into Plone or just as static builds off docs.fp.o * As alluded to above, some additions to the toolchain, new make targets (make cms-draft, make cms-publish). - Depending on the individual user, someone with sufficient rights should be able to instantly publish a document from CVS - Use case: Editor fixes a small typo and wants to publish as a new point release; after fixing the typo and saving, the editor types 'make cms-publish', which i) builds, ii) checks-in to CVS, iii) drops the document into Plone as "publish immediately to the configured location". - 'make cms-newdraft' does something similar, except it republishes the document into the special state of "new draft of previously published draft." Some other ideas: * Ability to make all workflows happen quickly/near-instantly, by admin fiat and using one or more "Build Now" instead of the default "Schedule Build." - In general, we don't want people to be able to kick off instant, overriding builds; they should be queued, run by cron/schedule, and automatically niced; but it should be possible for either an editor, publisher, admin, or maybe anyone to push a build near-instantly > Please, understand all of this is not point and click for me to setup... > but it can be done. ;-) Heh, wouldn't be much of a coding project if it were point and click. Let's get all these ideas and others you gather from IRC and the Wiki, put them on a page as a #'d list, and sort them by priority. That gives us a chance to identify all the dependencies, esp. the ones that are off your personal radar/control. We may decide to push some features out until after the summer. One thing we *must* do is plan the future, so you aren't the go-to guy for this always. Ideally, we can build up a bit of a project around this; there will be other people who use the same tools (SCM + XML + Plone + Moin). Let's make sure that building a community around our solution is one of the tasks on the list. Getting upstream acceptance for any changes to Plone or Moin is another must-have. Good start? ;-D - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jun 16 18:33:54 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 11:33:54 -0700 Subject: GSoC - Target Practice In-Reply-To: <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1182018834.21966.93.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 11:24 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > Some other ideas: I forgot another idea we should throw in the pool: * Bugzilla integration: - For every document that is a published 'final' version, Plone displays a link to a pre-filled bug report via the new bugs.fp.o interface - This can be enabled optionally for draft documents, to allow for bug tracking against drafts - Linking feature, so a document can be linked to one or many bug reports - E.g. link to usage of requires_fedora_release_note from the resulting relnotes content - Back-linking feature, to automatically write published document URLs back in to bugzilla comments - Ease-of/auto-creation of tracking bugs Some version of the first item is probably the most important, and also the easiest to do. We could use a pre-filled bugzilla URL and cleverly write into it with document-specific content. See recent discussions on fedora-websites-list for what Will has planned for the Fedora-specific bugzilla interface. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jun 16 19:03:49 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 12:03:49 -0700 Subject: tix for docs tasks (was BTW Guys) In-Reply-To: <1181738367.3609.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> <1181591979.16199.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1181704384.3469.783.camel@erato.phig.org> <1181738160.3609.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1181738367.3609.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1182020629.21966.108.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 08:39 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > 2. The right answer to flying requests is "If it's not in Bugzilla, it > doesn't exist." Something the development guys insist on that is very > sane. Note this doesn't have to mean "File the bug or I'll ignore you"; > it could mean "If you don't/can't file the bug, I will get it in there > for you to tracak the work." At least, it should when you're the > kindler, gentler subproject. :-) But bugzilla is universally understood to be neither kinder nor gentler. :) I'm not sure what the bottom line is here ... is it better to have one tool, albeit one with a high barrier to entry? Or should we accept an easier to use tool, therefore attracting more usage, but increasing our workload across the two tools? If I had to file a bug for every error I found, I'd go nuts. I'd much rather fill out a quick ticket or, better yet, email docs-bugs at fp.o and have a ticket automagically created. I don't care if it uses BZ or OTRS on the backend. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 16 19:33:20 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:33:20 -0400 Subject: Candidate Schedule In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706160807t71ed935erb7aaf79c1f759fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <1182006137.3600.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0706160807t71ed935erb7aaf79c1f759fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1182022400.3600.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 16:07 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Not that I've got much of an idea about these things, but...what about > adding to the schedule for other docs? i.e. UG, AG etc Might help to > bring about some focus? I might be completely off the mark here and > it's posted somewhere else! You're not off the mark at all. I purposefully left out the other Guides' schedules to prompt discussion. You'll see the last release's schedule (opinions will likely vary on how well we hit that particular mark) at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule/7 . -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 16 20:04:42 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 16:04:42 -0400 Subject: tix for docs tasks (was BTW Guys) In-Reply-To: <1182020629.21966.108.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <466D823B.5090103@redhat.com> <369bce3b0706111012r6997740fr89e5393b6d85a48e@mail.gmail.com> <7a41c4bc0706111016j1cec0071v2f0b9e71b41de6c2@mail.gmail.com> <1181591979.16199.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1181704384.3469.783.camel@erato.phig.org> <1181738160.3609.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1181738367.3609.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182020629.21966.108.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1182024282.3600.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 12:03 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-06-13 at 08:39 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > 2. The right answer to flying requests is "If it's not in Bugzilla, it > > doesn't exist." Something the development guys insist on that is very > > sane. Note this doesn't have to mean "File the bug or I'll ignore you"; > > it could mean "If you don't/can't file the bug, I will get it in there > > for you to tracak the work." At least, it should when you're the > > kindler, gentler subproject. :-) > > But bugzillaedoraMain is universally understood to be neither kinder nor > gentler. :) True, but I believe wwoods and lmacken are working on making it quite a bit more so. I'd rather not short-circuit that with YABugTool. > I'm not sure what the bottom line is here ... is it better to have one > tool, albeit one with a high barrier to entry? Or should we accept an > easier to use tool, therefore attracting more usage, but increasing our > workload across the two tools? An easier tool might be as simple as a pretty PyGTK helper that picks all the right things up until the point of a document, a summary, and a description. What would you say to that? > If I had to file a bug for every error I found, I'd go nuts. I'd much > rather fill out a quick ticket or, better yet, email docs-bugs at fp.o and > have a ticket automagically created. > > I don't care if it uses BZ or OTRS on the backend. :) The automagic email thing sounds good, but might represent a good bit of programming work for someone. I suppose it could send a generic bug that any FDP contributor (or Fedora bugwatcher for that matter) could edit and fix as needed. In any case, there's enough low hanging fruit here that I don't think doubling up our bug trackers is worth while. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 16 20:21:51 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 16:21:51 -0400 Subject: GSoC - Target Practice In-Reply-To: <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1182025311.3600.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 11:24 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > Similar with writing, except Plone has the *potential* of replacing the > Wiki with the nice Kupu editor. To make it work with our systems, Plone > needs to keep that XHTML somewhere where: > > * Either it sits in CVS directly and we modify our docs toolchain to > pull POT/push PO from XHTML, or > * The XHTML is converted to XML, then built back to XHTML for publishing The second bullet is the one I was specifically hoping for. I don't like the idea of adapting our toolchain for a less portable document model; I'd rather Plone took care of turning the XML into XHTML for publishing. So here's my take on how things would work: 1. A clueless n00b writer can write using Kupu. The document on Plone is XHTML. The Kupu styles allow tagging, but we can assume the n00b won't do it. That's fine because... 2. A clueful editor comes along and uses the Kupu styles to "tag" the document. For instance, he turns some XHTML that just reads: ...use the Anaconda installer... into: ...use the Anaconda installer... 3. When a document is updated, Plone transforms that document into real DocBook XML: ....use the Anaconda installer... 4. I suspect "workflows" are ways to allow humans to approve changes or do other things to documents. Preferably, then, a human is allowed to look over the proposed changes to the document and, if approved, the human stamps them for a SCM (CVS for now) commit. Does this make sense and look achievable? This is not the be-all, end-all for the entire solution, but it's a big part of what we're worried about. We want n00b writers to be able to write as easily as they do on the wiki, but with the added benefit of allowing "half-skilled" editors to do tagging. Fully skilled editors can do really hard work however they like. Plone would need to watch the SCM to make sure it is not generating conflicts, in case I check in a document to CVS while a n00b is changing the content on Plone. I think things like hourly polls are probably simpler but worse than having Plone "read" or trigger on SCM commit messages to know when it needs to update something. > > Basically, I would like to as the docs team what they would like to see. > > Details such as final format (i.e. DocBookXML), VCS backend (i.e. svn, > > cvs, git, etc.), > > After writing the above, I realize we pretty have to keep it all in the > same VCS as our other docs, which means CVS. +10. > > and *where* we can edit the documents once they hit the > > documentation platform would help me get a better idea of what we are up > > to. I don't want to program anything that we wont end up using. > > Once content has e.g. left the Wiki, maybe we want it to be a one-way > street? That is, it gets converted to XML and Plone handles it now. If > you need to edit with a WYSIWYG approach, use Kupu. Yes, one-way street is sane. In a beautiful, shiny world, we'd bring the whole wiki into Plone and have steering committees deciding on what basis any content appears as "published" in their official namespaces. This might well be "wide open" for many groups to encourage freshness. Individual contributors could use their personal spaces for drafts however desired, of course. > > Also, > > and example document workflow would be awesome. Example: > > > > * User creates wiki object 1 on the wiki > > * People edit it for a few days/weeks and then it starts to become a > > usable document > > * Someone with access; Admin publishes the wiki object as a draft into > > the documentation platform > > Here is a dump. Please pull these and put them on a > SoC/2007/JonathanSteffan/Workflows or /UseCases page. > > 1. Users write content in $EDITOR; when ready, they "Push Draft": > 1.1 If in the Wiki, they have a new action that we push upstream to > Moin, "Push Draft to External Toolchain", which is configurable; > basically, choosing the option causes a script to run, so our script > isn't in Moin, just the generic trigger. Our script then: > 1.1.1 Uses Moin to convert to XML > 1.1.2 Puts that in CVS (may need to gather some module info from the > user) > 1.1.3 Builds the document to XHTML > 1.1.4 Pushes the XHTML into the start of a Plone workflow queue > 1.2 If in Plone, "Push Draft" puts the XHTML into the start of a Plone > workflow queue > 1.3 If in CVS/XML directly, have a 'make cms-draft' target that: > 1.3.1 Builds the doc > 1.3.2 Pushes it Plone at the start of a workflow queue The above piece that I wrote may be subsume or be subsumed by this -- if Plone watched for SCM commits, quite a bit of this could be automated. It doesn't need to necessarily parse entire commit messages, just trigger on them to update its own XHTML content as required. > > - What happens to the content that *was* on the wiki.. can it still be > > edited? Is it read only, pulling its data from the doc platform? > > Paul had some thoughts here ... > > My thinking is that any editing we are pushing from is likely to come > from Docs/Drafts/, so it's clear it is not a canonical source. > > For something like Docs/Beats/, the Wiki source remains the source of > content. However, once a draft is pushed, that draft goes into CVS and > is tagged with a test/release-specific label. In that situation, the > Wiki is a sort of pre-HEAD. > > We can review the Wiki-usage; maybe the Beats can be maintained via > Plone instead. I think Beats, Drafts, and anything else can and should be maintained via Plone. Easier, web-based account management should make it a very simple operation to add people to FAS and various authorized groups. Rather than giving out CVS access willy-nilly, we can simply add people to access groups on Plone. > Part of me doesn't want to limit editing in the Wiki source (i.e., not > turn it read-only.) However, this seems like a path to further insanity > -- dead-end unmaintained pages, etc. Better to limit some Wiki freedom > for the overall good? Yes, it's become clear from the amount of cruft accumulated on the wiki that "everybody have at it!" is not a winning strategy in the long term. It raises exponentially the chances that people are going to find bad, outdated, and wrong information, which has been one of our guiding lights for Things Not To Do. Certainly we don't want to dictate to other subprojects what they do, but moving editing of Things That Matter out of the wiki and over to Plone permanently seems pretty rational to me. > > * The document goes through it's life-cycle in the documentation > > platform. This is a very flexible system as we can define a very > > strict/granular workflow (states, transitions, etc) for individual > > objects... primarily document content types. > > I understand what you mean from a CMS standpoint. We can version > documents, specify an expiration date (where appropriate), and have the > documents go through many states: > > Document_Foo_Lifecycle (Draft => Editor (approve or push back) => > Published Draft; Update Draft => Editor => Publish Updated Draft; Loop > last until satisfied; Expire Drafts; Final => Editor => Publish Final) > > What do you mean by "document content types"? > > > * Where do we go from here? Automagic "this is all our documentation" > > DocBookXML generation? > > Some automagic we'd like to see in the doc publishing platform: > > * Autobuild of HEAD for all documents (listed in a special file > somewhere?) as "docs rawhide"; could be done into Plone or just as > static builds off docs.fp.o > > * As alluded to above, some additions to the toolchain, new make targets > (make cms-draft, make cms-publish). (Redundant point: might be unnecessary depending on whether Plone can be trained to watch for changes.) > - Depending on the individual user, someone with sufficient rights > should be able to instantly publish a document from CVS Ahh, this is sensible and cool, I hadn't thought hard enough there! > - Use case: Editor fixes a small typo and wants to publish as a new > point release; after fixing the typo and saving, the editor types 'make > cms-publish', which i) builds, ii) checks-in to CVS, iii) drops the > document into Plone as "publish immediately to the configured location". > - 'make cms-newdraft' does something similar, except it republishes > the document into the special state of "new draft of previously > published draft." > > Some other ideas: > > * Ability to make all workflows happen quickly/near-instantly, by admin > fiat and using one or more "Build Now" instead of the default "Schedule > Build." > - In general, we don't want people to be able to kick off instant, > overriding builds; they should be queued, run by cron/schedule, and > automatically niced; but it should be possible for either an editor, > publisher, admin, or maybe anyone to push a build near-instantly Yeah, the "scheduled build" idea is an idiom we should probably try to avoid in any future endeavor. It uses a lot of time and disk activity that is largely unnecessary and my interfere with real usage. Much better to have something external *trigger* the requirement to build or publish (or whatever), so it only gets done when needed; cf. IRQs or D-Bus messages. > > Please, understand all of this is not point and click for me to setup... > > but it can be done. ;-) > > Heh, wouldn't be much of a coding project if it were point and click. We *might* have done it ourselves if so... You know, in our "free time." :-D > Let's get all these ideas and others you gather from IRC and the Wiki, > put them on a page as a #'d list, and sort them by priority. That gives > us a chance to identify all the dependencies, esp. the ones that are off > your personal radar/control. We may decide to push some features out > until after the summer. One thing we *must* do is plan the future, so > you aren't the go-to guy for this always. Ideally, we can build up a > bit of a project around this; there will be other people who use the > same tools (SCM + XML + Plone + Moin). Let's make sure that building a > community around our solution is one of the tasks on the list. Getting > upstream acceptance for any changes to Plone or Moin is another > must-have. Hope my ramblings here are not muddying the waters. If any of this exceeds scope, please take it down as a "do-later" so we can still track progress as the project proceeds after the deadlines have been met. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 16 20:32:19 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 16:32:19 -0400 Subject: GSoC - Target Practice In-Reply-To: <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1182025939.3600.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 11:24 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > I tried to use the #REDIRECT feature for external (URI) linking, but it > doesn't work that way. The idea I had was, once a document is pushed > from the Wiki as a draft, we could turn the old page into a redirect to > the new location. By the way, moin allows you to do this with #REFRESH , i.e.: #REFRESH 0 http://docs.fedoraproject.org/new-stuff/ This needs to be enabled in the wiki; I've left a ticket in OTRS for the webmasters. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 16 21:10:52 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:10:52 -0400 Subject: GSoC - Target Practice In-Reply-To: <1182025939.3600.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182025939.3600.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1182028252.3600.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 16:32 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 11:24 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > I tried to use the #REDIRECT feature for external (URI) linking, but it > > doesn't work that way. The idea I had was, once a document is pushed > > from the Wiki as a draft, we could turn the old page into a redirect to > > the new location. > > By the way, moin allows you to do this with #REFRESH , > i.e.: > > #REFRESH 0 http://docs.fedoraproject.org/new-stuff/ > > This needs to be enabled in the wiki; I've left a ticket in OTRS for the > webmasters. And, done! Thanks to Marvelous Mike McGrath and his Many Meandering Ministers of Magical Moin Mastery. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jon at fedoraunity.org Sat Jun 16 21:35:19 2007 From: jon at fedoraunity.org (Jonathan Steffan) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 15:35:19 -0600 Subject: GSoC - Target Practice In-Reply-To: <1182028252.3600.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182025939.3600.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182028252.3600.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1182029719.5437.25.camel@damaestro> This will be ideal for a one way street kind of migration from the wiki to plone. The more I see the interaction between systems, the more I see we need to review and keep aware of security. I know nothing about moin's ACL system or how we would allow a user to interactively (on moin) specify where the document is to be published in plone. Most likely, once things are all said and done on the wiki and the wiki has figured out where the document is going, what it is to be named, etc I will just add a global action to deal with the rest. Example: 'Publish to Draft' is selected by someone with access on the wiki: (it is inferred they also have access to move the document to plone) Moin quizzes the user on where the document is to go. User selects "/toolchain/cvsdocs/howtocheckoutmodule". At this point we seem to have everything for the move. Moin would: - Push the current content into CVS - Replace the content with #REFRESH 0 http://docs.fedoraproject.org/toolchain/cvsdocs/howtocheckoutmodule - Redirect the user to http://docs.fedoraproject.org/toolchain/cvsdocs/howtocheckoutmodule/global_action_name So, maybe: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/toolchain/cvsdocs/howtocheckoutmodule/init_cvs_document Basically, the init_cvs_document will be an accessor for our defined method. This will most likely (a) force a user to auth before we can really do anything (b) invoke portal_factory and pull the needed information from CVS (c) start the document in a non-public draft and start the edit chain. I will need to look more into Plone 3 before I can comment on the ability of plone to poll CVS. Does anyone know what locking support CVS has? Basically we could store the "last known copy" in the ZODB and then do all of the revision control in CVS. This aspect of things is going to take some time. We don't want to lose edits or end up having a document locked and need a manual unlock when someone closes their browser when they had a document open for edit. Jonathan Steffan On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 17:10 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 16:32 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 11:24 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > I tried to use the #REDIRECT feature for external (URI) linking, but it > > > doesn't work that way. The idea I had was, once a document is pushed > > > from the Wiki as a draft, we could turn the old page into a redirect to > > > the new location. > > > > By the way, moin allows you to do this with #REFRESH , > > i.e.: > > > > #REFRESH 0 http://docs.fedoraproject.org/new-stuff/ > > > > This needs to be enabled in the wiki; I've left a ticket in OTRS for the > > webmasters. > > And, done! Thanks to Marvelous Mike McGrath and his Many Meandering > Ministers of Magical Moin Mastery. From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 16 21:52:02 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 17:52:02 -0400 Subject: GSoC - Target Practice In-Reply-To: <1182029719.5437.25.camel@damaestro> References: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182025939.3600.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182028252.3600.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182029719.5437.25.camel@damaestro> Message-ID: <1182030722.12077.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 15:35 -0600, Jonathan Steffan wrote: > Does anyone know what locking support CVS has? http://ximbiot.com/cvs/manual/cvs-1.11.22/cvs_10.html#SEC82 CVS locking is a little underwhelming, but there are safety features to keep people from overwriting each other's changes. Our CVS instance doesn't reserve anything so there's no fear about locking other people out from that direction at least. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Jun 17 06:45:36 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 09:45:36 +0300 Subject: Interesting Survey Results Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706162345h25ac3b30iee04bf016e6662af@mail.gmail.com> Here are the results of a very interesting survey done by Andy Oram, an editor for O'Reilly Media. "Why Do People Write Free Documentation? Results of a Survey" http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/onlamp/2007/06/14/why-do-people-write-free-documentation-results-of-a-survey.html The topic of this survey is people's motivations, not the techniques used. It still is part of the "FOSS way". When we have our "FOSS Docs the FOSS Way" summit, we should definitely invite to participate. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From kwade at redhat.com Sun Jun 17 08:29:40 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 01:29:40 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-06-12 Summary Message-ID: <1182068981.21966.127.camel@erato.phig.org> Attendees: ----------- Bob Jensen (BobJensen) John Babich (jmbuser) Dimitris Glezos (glezos) Bart Couvreur (couf) Karsten Wade (quaid) Summary: --------- * Jon Steffan is going to ask the list about requirements/RFEs for docs publishing platform * SELinux content needs updating - May push some content upstream for a new home - Paulo Santos (pauolobanon) working on Fedora-specific content * Until we have Plone and Damned Lies alerting us, we need to manually cut inaccurate versions/translations of content * All hands requested to focus on finishing guides individually, one after the other: 1. SMG (split) => UG, AG 2. UG 3. SpinG 4. AG 5. DevelG 6. RPM Guide * FDP is helping with Revisor documentation in two main ways: 1. Help documentation for the new tool (in package) 2. Stand-alone how-to (Fedora Spinning Live Media Guide, or something) * Doc Publishing Platform - Waiting for Plone 3 to deploy - Requirements gathering via f-docs-l * Election discussion in a few weeks; need to keep end-of-July open for making early-August elections happen - Discussion around electing a vice-chair - as done in other projects - useful to split duties - helps train others for leadership -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Jun 18 03:54:44 2007 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 23:54:44 -0400 Subject: [Bug 244505] [INFORMATION] Upgrading from FC6 to F7 via yum In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200706180354.l5I3sii1006320@bugzilla.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug report. Summary: [INFORMATION] Upgrading from FC6 to F7 via yum https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=244505 notting at redhat.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Product|Fedora Core |Fedora Documentation Version|f7 |devel Component|distribution |docs-requests AssignedTo|notting at redhat.com |kwade at redhat.com QAContact|notting at redhat.com |stickster at gmail.com CC| |fedora-docs-list at redhat.com ------- Additional Comments From notting at redhat.com 2007-06-17 23:54 EST ------- This is probably best redirected to the docs product somehow. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 18 05:52:32 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 22:52:32 -0700 Subject: GSoC - Target Practice In-Reply-To: <1182029719.5437.25.camel@damaestro> References: <1181762721.11883.11.camel@damaestrojr> <1182018255.21966.85.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182025939.3600.56.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182028252.3600.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182029719.5437.25.camel@damaestro> Message-ID: <1182145952.21966.171.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-06-16 at 15:35 -0600, Jonathan Steffan wrote: > Moin would: > > - Push the current content into CVS > - Replace the content with #REFRESH 0 > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/toolchain/cvsdocs/howtocheckoutmodule > - Redirect the user to > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/toolchain/cvsdocs/howtocheckoutmodule/global_action_name Maybe we want the Apache server on the Moin machine to get these redirects written to a mod_rewrite rule. Maybe once a week, a cronjob would go look for new Moin #REFRESH uses, and write a rewrite rule from it. The reason for weekly is to give people a chance to experiment before a rewrite/redirect is made permanent. It would be much harder to remove Apache rules once a rule is implemented. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From samfw at redhat.com Mon Jun 18 14:42:25 2007 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 10:42:25 -0400 Subject: How do I edit the Fedora Wiki CustomKernel page? In-Reply-To: <1181343026.3469.375.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <4669C52D.9000709@redhat.com> <4669C89F.1090809@redhat.com> <1181343026.3469.375.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <467699D1.2070503@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2007-06-08 at 17:22 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: >> Chuck Ebbert wrote: >>> I want to update the documentation, but I can't >>> I'm in the EditGroup but it still says "Immutable Page". >> This is something I still don't understand... > > It's two purposes, coming across each other. > > Purpose 1 -- Fedora needs a "formal documentation location"; FDP needs a > way to make it easy enough to contribute that is also easy to publish to > the formal docs location. For the Wiki, right now, that means Docs/ is > a formal publication location. For reasons that are ideally somewhat > obvious, we don't want to give every contributor equal ability to > override formal content. We don't do it for the kernel, we don't do it > for Web front-pages, or parts of the infrastructure, or build system, > etc. > > Purpose 2 -- Fedora needs a community documentation location where > (nearly) anyone can edit, and it is recognized that the content is not > vetted the same as the formal content is. > > Until we can separate those purposes into distinct locations (coming > this summer to a docs.fedoraproject.org near you), we have to have > Purpose 1 override Purpose 2. > >> Docs folks - can this page be made generally editable? >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/CustomKernel > > That all said, we could technically set an individual ACL for this > document so the e.g. all of EditGroup can edit it. > > I guess I'm in favor of that, since I know you are watching edits and > will fix stuff, etc. But you have to understand it is a rather > temporary fix, not a permanent solution. In the near future, if you > want the Custom Kernel to continue being a main, formal piece of content > instead of a community documentation effort, getting changes in to > docs.fp.org/custom-kernel/ is going to require a different yet > essentially similar process. > > Is all that OK with you? > > BTW, you may wonder why it matters to move content from community > documentation to formal project documentation. Why keep two buckets? > It's mainly a tooling issue. To get a document translated and available > for packaging (stand-alone for install (yum install admin-guide) or as > part of the distro), it needs to be in XML in CVS. Ask anyone who has > tried to translate the Wiki ... as it changes daily ... to find out > which system is currently working better. > > For anything where the Wiki or Plone is an editor for content directly > in CVS[1][2][3], we'll be able to skip the other in-between. Still, > though, in the end, someone has to be responsible for approving/pushing > back changes to formal content ... just like with the kernel, etc. > Thanks for the explanation Karsten. Makes good sense. I wonder if this page should be a community page and not a formal page? I took the initiative to create it, but I'm not the subject matter expert. We definitely need those subject matter experts (like Chuck) to be able to edit. If making it a community page is the best way to do that then perhaps we should. Or if we could add specific people to the ACL for this page it that would also be good. Chuck - do you think this page should be editable by anyone or should we control access somewhat? -Sam > - Karsten > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/VillePekkaVainio > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/RiaDas > [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/JonathanSteffan > From cebbert at redhat.com Mon Jun 18 15:42:58 2007 From: cebbert at redhat.com (Chuck Ebbert) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 11:42:58 -0400 Subject: How do I edit the Fedora Wiki CustomKernel page? In-Reply-To: <467699D1.2070503@redhat.com> References: <4669C52D.9000709@redhat.com> <4669C89F.1090809@redhat.com> <1181343026.3469.375.camel@erato.phig.org> <467699D1.2070503@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4676A802.1080904@redhat.com> On 06/18/2007 10:42 AM, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: >>> Docs folks - can this page be made generally editable? >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/CustomKernel >> >> That all said, we could technically set an individual ACL for this >> document so the e.g. all of EditGroup can edit it. >> >> I guess I'm in favor of that, since I know you are watching edits and >> will fix stuff, etc. But you have to understand it is a rather >> temporary fix, not a permanent solution. In the near future, if you >> want the Custom Kernel to continue being a main, formal piece of content >> instead of a community documentation effort, getting changes in to >> docs.fp.org/custom-kernel/ is going to require a different yet >> essentially similar process. >> >> Is all that OK with you? >> >> > > Thanks for the explanation Karsten. Makes good sense. I wonder if this > page should be a community page and not a formal page? I took the > initiative to create it, but I'm not the subject matter expert. We > definitely need those subject matter experts (like Chuck) to be able to > edit. If making it a community page is the best way to do that then > perhaps we should. > > Or if we could add specific people to the ACL for this page it that > would also be good. > > Chuck - do you think this page should be editable by anyone or should we > control access somewhat? > I think access should be controlled. Maybe we can just tell you what needs changing... For example, can you look at: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=240878 where the users are reporting that the directions don't quite work? From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 18 16:00:46 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 09:00:46 -0700 Subject: How do I edit the Fedora Wiki CustomKernel page? In-Reply-To: <4676A802.1080904@redhat.com> References: <4669C52D.9000709@redhat.com> <4669C89F.1090809@redhat.com> <1181343026.3469.375.camel@erato.phig.org> <467699D1.2070503@redhat.com> <4676A802.1080904@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1182182446.21966.200.camel@erato.phig.org> /me approved this non-member post On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 11:42 -0400, Chuck Ebbert wrote: > On 06/18/2007 10:42 AM, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > > > Thanks for the explanation Karsten. Makes good sense. I wonder if this > > page should be a community page and not a formal page? I took the > > initiative to create it, but I'm not the subject matter expert. We > > definitely need those subject matter experts (like Chuck) to be able to > > edit. If making it a community page is the best way to do that then > > perhaps we should. > > > > Or if we could add specific people to the ACL for this page it that > > would also be good. > > > > Chuck - do you think this page should be editable by anyone or should we > > control access somewhat? > > > > I think access should be controlled. Note that access is controlled in that one needs a Fedora account to edit the Wiki pages. I'm inclined to think that we want to have this be editable by account holders. Only ones with an interest and knowledge in the subject are likely to edit it, and Sam and others watch those pages, and he can run any questions by Chuck and others. > Maybe we can just tell you what > needs changing... It's good to work with the writer who is working on the content, especially if he is amendable to being the 'mouth piece.' However, if it is easy enough for a subject matter expert to fix it, that's probably the best way; then Sam or others can clean up the language, etc. Aside from the value of community documentation, as we do with community code, there is the fact that Fedora writers are volunteers who can use all the help we can get. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From samfw at redhat.com Mon Jun 18 22:19:56 2007 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 18:19:56 -0400 Subject: How do I edit the Fedora Wiki CustomKernel page? In-Reply-To: <1182182446.21966.200.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <4669C52D.9000709@redhat.com> <4669C89F.1090809@redhat.com> <1181343026.3469.375.camel@erato.phig.org> <467699D1.2070503@redhat.com> <4676A802.1080904@redhat.com> <1182182446.21966.200.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <4677050C.1060907@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > /me approved this non-member post > > On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 11:42 -0400, Chuck Ebbert wrote: >> On 06/18/2007 10:42 AM, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: >>> Thanks for the explanation Karsten. Makes good sense. I wonder if this >>> page should be a community page and not a formal page? I took the >>> initiative to create it, but I'm not the subject matter expert. We >>> definitely need those subject matter experts (like Chuck) to be able to >>> edit. If making it a community page is the best way to do that then >>> perhaps we should. >>> >>> Or if we could add specific people to the ACL for this page it that >>> would also be good. >>> >>> Chuck - do you think this page should be editable by anyone or should we >>> control access somewhat? >>> >> I think access should be controlled. > > Note that access is controlled in that one needs a Fedora account to > edit the Wiki pages. > > I'm inclined to think that we want to have this be editable by account > holders. Only ones with an interest and knowledge in the subject are > likely to edit it, and Sam and others watch those pages, and he can run > any questions by Chuck and others. > >> Maybe we can just tell you what >> needs changing... > > It's good to work with the writer who is working on the content, > especially if he is amendable to being the 'mouth piece.' > > However, if it is easy enough for a subject matter expert to fix it, > that's probably the best way; then Sam or others can clean up the > language, etc. Aside from the value of community documentation, as we > do with community code, there is the fact that Fedora writers are > volunteers who can use all the help we can get. :) > I think part of the problem here is that I don't necessarily see a BZ like this one that gets filed. I made those changes. If someone needs to make changes and they aren't an account holder... do they email me directly? Do they email this list? Open a BZ? Sam > - Karsten > From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 19 00:22:28 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:22:28 -0400 Subject: How do I edit the Fedora Wiki CustomKernel page? In-Reply-To: <4677050C.1060907@redhat.com> References: <4669C52D.9000709@redhat.com> <4669C89F.1090809@redhat.com> <1181343026.3469.375.camel@erato.phig.org> <467699D1.2070503@redhat.com> <4676A802.1080904@redhat.com> <1182182446.21966.200.camel@erato.phig.org> <4677050C.1060907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1182212548.3973.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 18:19 -0400, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: > > /me approved this non-member post > > > > On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 11:42 -0400, Chuck Ebbert wrote: > >> On 06/18/2007 10:42 AM, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > >>> Thanks for the explanation Karsten. Makes good sense. I wonder if this > >>> page should be a community page and not a formal page? I took the > >>> initiative to create it, but I'm not the subject matter expert. We > >>> definitely need those subject matter experts (like Chuck) to be able to > >>> edit. If making it a community page is the best way to do that then > >>> perhaps we should. > >>> > >>> Or if we could add specific people to the ACL for this page it that > >>> would also be good. > >>> > >>> Chuck - do you think this page should be editable by anyone or should we > >>> control access somewhat? > >>> > >> I think access should be controlled. > > > > Note that access is controlled in that one needs a Fedora account to > > edit the Wiki pages. > > > > I'm inclined to think that we want to have this be editable by account > > holders. Only ones with an interest and knowledge in the subject are > > likely to edit it, and Sam and others watch those pages, and he can run > > any questions by Chuck and others. > > > >> Maybe we can just tell you what > >> needs changing... > > > > It's good to work with the writer who is working on the content, > > especially if he is amendable to being the 'mouth piece.' > > > > However, if it is easy enough for a subject matter expert to fix it, > > that's probably the best way; then Sam or others can clean up the > > language, etc. Aside from the value of community documentation, as we > > do with community code, there is the fact that Fedora writers are > > volunteers who can use all the help we can get. :) > > > > I think part of the problem here is that I don't necessarily see a BZ > like this one that gets filed. I made those changes. > > If someone needs to make changes and they aren't an account holder... do > they email me directly? Do they email this list? Open a BZ? Any official documentation should have a link to a pre-filled Bugzilla ticket. Here's what I find works best: 1. Fill in everything *except* the Summary. Filling in the summary encourages people not to bother with it, meaning any bug list will have meaningless boilerplate text there. 2. Include very short boilerplate text in the Description field, such as "Include details on problem here." 3. Log problems to the "docs-requests" component. These are pretty general, and a copy goes to this list so any subscriber with access can try to fix the problem. 4. Surround the link (best turned into a TinyURL, see http://tinyurl.com to get one) with a bit of text about why the person might want to use it. We have boilerplate language in several documents, such as here: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f7/en_US/sn-feedback.html Email to the list isn't a problem but requires the person to join the list first, which isn't fun when they just wanted to inject a couple lines about what's wrong. HTH! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 19 16:13:31 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 09:13:31 -0700 Subject: help with tools, CVS Message-ID: <1182269611.21966.306.camel@erato.phig.org> Anyone have experience or interest in helping with documentation toolchain and CVS-related stuff? Right now we want to re-enable the language auto-selection for the release notes, since a bug was fixed in Firefox 2. This means changes to the Makefile, looking up how the auto-selection is accomplished, maybe digging up the details of the implementation we did before. Interested? Reply here. - Krsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue Jun 19 16:48:39 2007 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:48:39 -0500 Subject: help with tools, CVS In-Reply-To: <1182269611.21966.306.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1182269611.21966.306.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20070619114839.08539cd1.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > Right now we want to re-enable the language auto-selection for the > release notes, since a bug was fixed in Firefox 2. This means changes > to the Makefile, looking up how the auto-selection is accomplished, > maybe digging up the details of the implementation we did before. Being one of the original perpetrators, I am available for questions about this. IIRC there was a small (really small) javascript front end that detected the browser language and then auto-loaded the correct relnotes translation. At one time, I had the list of languages automatically generated by the relnotes Makefile. I'll check my private CVS reserves, since that hard drive failed long since. However, I lost touch with FDP about then so another technique may have been chosen. Cheers, Tommy -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Tue Jun 19 17:44:21 2007 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 13:44:21 -0400 Subject: help with tools, CVS In-Reply-To: <20070619114839.08539cd1.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <1182269611.21966.306.camel@erato.phig.org> <20070619114839.08539cd1.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1182275061.9517.2.camel@ignacio.lan> On Tue, 2007-06-19 at 11:48 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > IIRC there was a small (really small) javascript front end that > detected the browser language and then auto-loaded the correct > relnotes translation. Wait a minute, wouldn't it make more sense to check the HTTP request headers for the desired language and serve the proper pages based on that? ISTR using that mechanism with a website and gettext long ago. -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Jun 19 18:07:58 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:07:58 +0300 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-06-19 IRC log Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706191107y776cf755u4cb05a8debc67b9f@mail.gmail.com> HTML version of this log is at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20070619 09:02 < quaid> 09:02 < quaid> howdy all 09:02 < glezos> yo. 09:02 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 09:02 < couf> hi 09:02 < jmbuser> hi 09:03 < quaid> and we know how it is with Paul, so here we are 09:03 < couf> huh? did I miss something? 09:04 < quaid> just that he's here sort of 09:04 < quaid> anyway, short agenda today 09:05 < quaid> first item then ... 09:05 < quaid> anyone feeling secretarial today? 09:05 < jmbuser> me! 09:06 < couf> woohoo :-) 09:06 < couf> quick fist point 09:06 * couf bows to jmbuser 09:06 < quaid> ok, then 09:07 < quaid> I'm guessing stickster_afk put in the second item ... 09:08 < glezos> BTW, on release notes, is someone feeling moody to make them again to work with the language auto-selection? 09:08 < quaid> that's avail in F7 now, right? 09:09 < glezos> quaid: we haven't enabled it for F7, although we should, because the Firefox language bug was fixed. 09:09 < quaid> right, that's what I mean, bug fixed 09:09 < glezos> oh sorry. yes, it's fixed since FF2 09:10 < glezos> basically someone needs to enable it somewhere in the Makefile, and it would be nice if stickster wasn't the one (again) :) 09:10 < glezos> anyway, I'll open a bug report and we'll see from there. 09:10 < quaid> we have a need for some help in tools/CVS 09:10 * quaid sends email to the list 09:13 < quaid> request sent 09:13 < quaid> seems to work for Mike 09:14 < quaid> as for this agenda item ... 09:14 < quaid> anyone available to work on the Wiki-diff => XML? 09:14 * quaid notes this is easy stuff, just takes a few hours 09:15 < couf> I could get it done this weekend 09:15 < couf> maybe Friday 09:15 * glezos shamelessly notes that couf has experience on that. 09:15 < couf> need to run, bb in 10 min 09:16 < quaid> heh 09:16 < quaid> yeah, I don't think there is a hurry 09:16 < quaid> there are just new changes to get out 09:16 < quaid> and get translated, of course 09:16 < glezos> quaid: what doc? 09:16 < glezos> ah relnotes, sorry 09:16 < quaid> couf: since you stepped out, we'll accept your offer :) 09:16 < quaid> yep 09:17 < quaid> couf: can you email the list and see if anyone else wants to help/learn? 09:17 < glezos> quaid: so we can push the update both for relnotes and homepage 09:17 < quaid> emphasize easy + good learning :) 09:17 < quaid> glezos: yes 09:17 < quaid> glezos: all the same package (f-r-n) 09:19 < quaid> ok, I think that is all there was to that item 09:19 < quaid> stickster_afk can add anything else later, or to the list, if he needs 09:19 < quaid> move along? 09:19 < glezos> yup 09:20 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:21 < glezos> the Director for Launching split. :) 09:24 < quaid> right on 09:24 < quaid> I'll send out the log 09:24 < quaid> :) 09:24 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has joined #fedora-docs 09:24 < glezos> quaid: heh. 09:24 < quaid> next/last item ... 09:25 * jmbuser is back - so much for logging 09:25 < quaid> we decided last week 09:25 < quaid> jmbuser: I'll send out the log; do you want me to leave the log2html to you? :) 09:25 < quaid> anyway 09:25 < jmbuser> quaid: fine 09:25 < quaid> last week we decided to tackle the current guides one-at-a-time 09:27 < quaid> I didn't make any announcement about that, though 09:27 < quaid> suggestions on approach? 09:27 < glezos> quaid: important ones first? 09:28 < quaid> well, we set the list 09:28 < quaid> that can adjust 09:28 < quaid> it's more ... how do we get people involved who aren't sitting here right now? 09:28 < quaid> ... or do FDSCo members want more to do? 09:28 < quaid> I know jmbuser does :) 09:28 < glezos> quaid: modularize work in small independent pieces 09:29 < glezos> quaid: for example: FDP Task 524: Get the install-guide. Copy GNOME's audio applications XML file and adjust it to cover the KDE ones. 09:30 < quaid> that sounds like a lot of work 09:30 < quaid> one could spend a lot of time organizing like that :) 09:30 < glezos> quaid: really? more than, like, one hour? 09:31 * glezos thinks of the number of new members we have had in the past 5 months and how many of them *did* find a way into contributing, and gets a bit sad. 09:31 < quaid> welcome to the club! 09:32 < glezos> quaid: I *really* think that we try to leave the abstract, not-precisely-defined tasks behind for new members and request from each maintainer to write up from 3 to 10 small tasks that a new member could tackle with his help. 09:33 < jmbuser> +1 09:33 < glezos> Even if this means that he might spend more time explaining for 50% of them. Cause then the newbie won't be a newbie any more. 09:34 < quaid> I agree with the drill 09:34 < glezos> We could even arrange a time window for online collaboration (or call it help from the experienced, whatever) 09:35 < quaid> well, that means us, basically 09:35 < quaid> and a few others on list :) 09:36 < glezos> yes 09:36 < quaid> I admit that lately I've been overwhelmed trying to get to that position you describe 09:36 < quaid> where I am able to get something to where someone else can step in and help 09:36 < quaid> just the task list itself is like that 09:38 < glezos> quaid: the tasks need to be less vague and more directed, with steps.. :-/ 09:38 < quaid> glezos: that's what I'm saying 09:38 < quaid> I've had that task to do that for about three weeks 09:38 < quaid> and it's not getting done 09:38 < jmbuser> quaid: I think we need to keep on keeping on while some tools are put into place... 09:38 < quaid> glezos: I'm saying that I agree with what you are saying 100%, but I am not able to make it happen 09:38 < quaid> :) 09:39 < glezos> quaid: OK, we can split it with each maintainer. I can handle homepage for example, and the translation infrastructure. 09:40 < quaid> anyway, let's go with that ... ask maintainers to put up 3 to 10 definite tasks 09:40 < quaid> and to put them in a sub-page, linked from the main tasks page 09:40 < glezos> quaid: +1 09:40 < glezos> quaid: well, we can try, right? Experiment. 09:40 < quaid> yep 09:40 < jmbuser> +1 09:41 < jmbuser> +1 09:42 < quaid> +1 09:42 < quaid> :) 09:43 < glezos> +1.. I almost forgot. 09:43 -!- paulobanon [i=50efac68 at gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-1560426eddd22922] has joined #fedora-docs 09:43 < glezos> Maybe we should re-consider the meeting time? 09:43 < quaid> ok, I'll try to get this task list in shape to be abused by everyone 09:43 < glezos> so that stickster could attend. 09:43 < quaid> well, you've seen the open times ... 09:44 < paulobanon> hi all 09:44 * stickster_afk comes back from meeting 09:44 -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster 09:44 < paulobanon> when is the docs meetings ? 09:44 < glezos> quaid: I'm sure some of us could reconsider our open times. Paul is one of the most important members of FDSCo 09:44 < stickster> thpppt, I'm just another nobody 09:44 < glezos> stickster: shut up. :) 09:45 < quaid> paulobanon: 1600 UTC on Tue 09:45 < quaid> glezos: can you send out an email to the list on that subject then? point back at the page we made with meeting times, get others to adjust, look for a new hole 09:46 < glezos> quaid: ok 09:46 < stickster> So it looks from my IRC buffer that we've been tangentially discussing #2 and #3 here 09:47 < quaid> hmm, yes 09:47 < quaid> the intersection I guess 09:47 < quaid> tasks, motivating, etc. 09:48 * couf returns aswell 09:48 < quaid> I'm trying to make the tasks list a template others can fill 09:49 < stickster> Good idea that 09:50 < couf> ow yeah, that'd be nice 09:51 < jmbuser> +1 09:51 < paulobanon> quaid: mmm thats like 8am PST ? 09:51 < quaid> paulobanon: 9a 09:52 < stickster> I will find some small tasks to get people started on some of our core technologies. 09:53 < glezos> stickster: cool. 09:53 < stickster> We've got to find people who are willing to do more than just fill in a wiki page 09:53 < quaid> I think they are 09:53 < quaid> we just aren't enabling people easily 09:53 < glezos> quaid: exactly. 09:53 < quaid> there is an unintended barrier 09:53 < quaid> that is in all FLOSS projects 09:53 < stickster> but writers would be good too 09:53 < quaid> but we're trying to break through thoses classic barriers 09:53 < glezos> stickster: even new writers need specific tasks to get started.. 09:54 < stickster> yes 09:54 < quaid> ok, stubs are there 09:54 < quaid> and so are the laundry list that can provide some source for new tasks 09:54 * quaid makes some more tweas 09:54 < quaid> tweaks 09:57 -!- gomix [n=gomix at 200.84.243.8] has left #fedora-docs [] 09:57 < quaid> anyone know how to force a linebreak in Wiki syntax? 09:58 < quaid> equiv. to
09:58 < couf> [[BR()]] ? 09:58 < quaid> a macro? 09:58 < couf> yeah, seen that happen, can't remember where though 09:58 < quaid> wow, that worked 09:58 < glezos> I think it's [[BR]] 09:59 < quaid> yep 09:59 < quaid> thx 09:59 < couf> heh, it's moin, it's strange in more than one way ;-) 10:01 < quaid> ok, then 10:01 < quaid> anything else? 10:01 < quaid> jmbuser: want me to send you the log directly, or should I convert and post it, and let you do just the summary? 10:01 < quaid> winding down ... 10:02 * quaid starts the closure countdown 10:02 < quaid> 5 10:02 < quaid> 4 10:02 < quaid> 3 10:02 < couf> kill it 10:02 < quaid> 2 10:02 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:02 < quaid> 1 10:02 < quaid> From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 19 18:55:12 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2007 11:55:12 -0700 Subject: help with tools, CVS In-Reply-To: <1182275061.9517.2.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <1182269611.21966.306.camel@erato.phig.org> <20070619114839.08539cd1.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1182275061.9517.2.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <1182279312.21966.353.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-06-19 at 13:44 -0400, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Tue, 2007-06-19 at 11:48 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > IIRC there was a small (really small) javascript front end that > > detected the browser language and then auto-loaded the correct > > relnotes translation. > > Wait a minute, wouldn't it make more sense to check the HTTP request > headers for the desired language and serve the proper pages based on > that? ISTR using that mechanism with a website and gettext long ago. I think we're talking about file:/// calls, not http:// calls. Does Firefox make an HTTP request via that method? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From maxime.carron at fedoraproject.org Wed Jun 20 07:46:05 2007 From: maxime.carron at fedoraproject.org (Maxime Carron) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 09:46:05 +0200 Subject: [Packaging docs] more advices about security Message-ID: <4678DB3D.50505@fedoraproject.org> Hi folks, I'm a packager beginner and I'm about to push my first package on fedora cvs. To put it on cvs i need my ssh private key, and of course my spec and srpm. But it's written in the doc that we have to build our package with a different user (which can't have any access to data like ssh private key). My question was, how can i use cvs (ie have my ssh private key in my homedir) and have access to my specs, ... Thanks to Anvil and RemiCollet's advices, i do this well now. I use : - "builder" user to build my package (no private keys in this one) - "fedoracvs" user to communicate with fedora cvs (cvs co , ...) In this account, i can use my ssh key. - I added fedoracvs in builder's group - chmod 770 /home/builder In this way "fedoracvs" user can access to builder homedir, and security risks are avoided. This probably seems obvious for lots of fedora packager, but it isn't for everybody. And if *one* person give an access accidentally to fedora cvs (a malicious makefile could send a private key to evil people) it's all the fedora cvs and repository that are in danger. So IMHO it's better to write it down. My problem is that English isn't my mother thong and I'm not sure to be able to write something comprehensible. If some can update this document, or help me to do it, this would be great. Cheers Maxime From Darren.Fields at glencore.co.uk Wed Jun 20 16:57:05 2007 From: Darren.Fields at glencore.co.uk (Darren.Fields at glencore.co.uk) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 17:57:05 +0100 Subject: CN=Darren Fields/OU=london/O=glen is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 20/06/2007 and will not return until 27/07/2007. I will respond to your message when I return. LEGAL DISCLAIMER. The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are strictly confidential and they may not be used or disclosed by someone who is not a named recipient. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by replying to this email inserting the word "misdirected" as the message and delete this e-mail from your system. From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 20 22:45:18 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 15:45:18 -0700 Subject: [Packaging docs] more advices about security In-Reply-To: <4678DB3D.50505@fedoraproject.org> References: <4678DB3D.50505@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1182379518.21966.536.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 09:46 +0200, Maxime Carron wrote: > If some can update this document, or help me to do it, this would be great. We need to update the Fedora Developer Guide to include all the packaging information. http://docs.fedoraproject.org/developers-guide/ You do not need to write English well (although you seem fine). Is anyone interested in working on the Developer Guide? Is it worth doing the work on the wiki or wait for the CMS? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 20 23:18:32 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 16:18:32 -0700 Subject: guide writers, fill out your tasks Message-ID: <1182381512.21966.552.camel@erato.phig.org> This page now has a number of stub pages: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks For every guide we are working on, there needs to be three to ten tasks that a newer contributor can work on. Work on right away. For example: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/ReleaseNotes I threw in a few things that I thought contributors of different levels of experience would be able to do to help get the update of `fedora-release-notes` out. If there is a stub page missing, add it. Then fill it in. ;-) If you want to take on a task that is a single person item, so can come off the page, move it to a new sub-page named after the task. Then use that to keep notes on the work as you do it. For example, the person who helps build `fedora-release-notes` creates: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/ReleaseNotes/fedora-release-notes-Push You'll note there is a long table on that page. The content from table needs to migrate into the other pages or become active tasks underneath a Tasks/Foo page. You might note that doing this job is an open task on this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/ProjectManagement "But Karsten," you say, "The DocsProject/Tasks page still looks scary!" Yep, it does. But once we get a good list of tasks, we can do something like: * Select a bunch of tasks to randomly highlight on the *top* of the page, with "More below..." that links to the master list. * Use some Wiki randomness to pull in a DP/Tasks/Foo page, so with every load it highlights a different area of tasks to do, with a "More below..." link Kids, I'm making this up as I go. Please help make it better. Note that is _also_ a task in DP/Tasks/ProjectManagement. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jun 21 00:37:25 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 06:07:25 +0530 Subject: [Packaging docs] more advices about security In-Reply-To: <1182379518.21966.536.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <4678DB3D.50505@fedoraproject.org> <1182379518.21966.536.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <4679C845.5080809@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 09:46 +0200, Maxime Carron wrote: >> If some can update this document, or help me to do it, this would be great. > > We need to update the Fedora Developer Guide to include all the > packaging information. > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/developers-guide/ > > You do not need to write English well (although you seem fine). > > Is anyone interested in working on the Developer Guide? Is it worth > doing the work on the wiki or wait for the CMS? If someone is willing to do it, do it in the wiki or whatever is available currently. Waiting on the Great Something(TM) usually delays it till the contributors lose the interest. We have had it happen several times before in Fedora. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 03:33:03 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2007 23:33:03 -0400 Subject: Links on docs.fp.o Message-ID: <1182396783.3575.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> A link to a "Live CD Howto/Introduction" showed up on the front page recently. I know Karsten probably added this to get this page some extra juice from the community, and that is a noble goal. However, I'd like to raise an ominous spectre, that of wikifying our docs.fp.o presence (where "wikifying" means "reducing content quality and translatability"). Our mission is to publish high-quality documentation, and the page in question hasn't been edited at all in the three weeks since it was linked, which tells me that users are getting there from someplace else, and/or our many potential contributors looking for work are not seeing these changes when they happen. Is it out of place for me to suggest we require wiki pages to be edited before they're linked from here? Otherwise we risk being just a front end for the wiki, which is practically the same as simply keeping all our docs there. *shudder* Would there be a major objection to removing this from our docs.fp.o front page, and adding it as a task on the wiki? This would be an excellent task for someone who's a good wordsmith but doesn't have time to learn any high-powered docs tools. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 04:10:48 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 00:10:48 -0400 Subject: about-fedora POT change Message-ID: <1182399048.3575.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> In the Docs CVS, I just made a tiny change to fix bug #245055. This means there is one extra string to be translated in the "about-fedora" module before we can push out an update for the fedora-release-notes package (hopefully soon). Thanks for your help! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From josemm at fedoraproject.org Thu Jun 21 05:59:31 2007 From: josemm at fedoraproject.org (jose manimala) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 11:29:31 +0530 Subject: guide writers, fill out your tasks In-Reply-To: <1182381512.21966.552.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1182381512.21966.552.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <53a863600706202259k2bf28f1cy5db0c5ac0a33ecb8@mail.gmail.com> Hey karsten, whats the Leadership task on the Docsproject/tasks page? On 6/21/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > This page now has a number of stub pages: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks > > For every guide we are working on, there needs to be three to ten tasks > that a newer contributor can work on. Work on right away. > > For example: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/ReleaseNotes > > I threw in a few things that I thought contributors of different levels > of experience would be able to do to help get the update of > `fedora-release-notes` out. > > If there is a stub page missing, add it. Then fill it in. ;-) > > If you want to take on a task that is a single person item, so can come > off the page, move it to a new sub-page named after the task. Then use > that to keep notes on the work as you do it. For example, the person > who helps build `fedora-release-notes` creates: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/ReleaseNotes/fedora-release-notes-Push > > You'll note there is a long table on that page. The content from table > needs to migrate into the other pages or become active tasks underneath > a Tasks/Foo page. You might note that doing this job is an open task on > this page: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/ProjectManagement > > "But Karsten," you say, "The DocsProject/Tasks page still looks scary!" > > Yep, it does. But once we get a good list of tasks, we can do something > like: > > * Select a bunch of tasks to randomly highlight on the *top* of the > page, with "More below..." that links to the master list. > > * Use some Wiki randomness to pull in a DP/Tasks/Foo page, so with every > load it highlights a different area of tasks to do, with a "More > below..." link > > Kids, I'm making this up as I go. Please help make it better. Note > that is _also_ a task in DP/Tasks/ProjectManagement. :) > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- Jose M Manimala S6 Computer science and engineering Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology Ph: +919846367850 http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 21 09:35:36 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:35:36 -0700 Subject: guide writers, fill out your tasks In-Reply-To: <53a863600706202259k2bf28f1cy5db0c5ac0a33ecb8@mail.gmail.com> References: <1182381512.21966.552.camel@erato.phig.org> <53a863600706202259k2bf28f1cy5db0c5ac0a33ecb8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1182418536.10205.52.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 11:29 +0530, jose manimala wrote: > Hey karsten, > whats the Leadership task on the Docsproject/tasks page? Similar to the others, it is a page to list out tasks related to being a leader in this project (FDP). My idea was to put down some tasks that help with FDP growth, progress, recruiting, project completion, etc., which are tasks focused on what FDP leaders are supposed to be doing. It's part of cultivating more leaders from within. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 21 09:39:48 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 02:39:48 -0700 Subject: Links on docs.fp.o In-Reply-To: <1182396783.3575.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1182396783.3575.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1182418788.10205.57.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 23:33 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Would there be a major objection to removing this from our docs.fp.o > front page, and adding it as a task on the wiki? This would be an > excellent task for someone who's a good wordsmith but doesn't have time > to learn any high-powered docs tools. Heh, not going to just do a take-down, have to pause to swing the dirty laundry around the room a few times, eh? Yes, I put up the link; probably in a bit of hasted and confusion around the F7 release, I admit to only giving it a cursory glance. I was relying upon the project behind the document to have made it technically accurate, if not otherwise. But if it needs that much more love, then it *must* be removed until then. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Jun 21 11:48:47 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 12:48:47 +0100 Subject: guide writers, fill out your tasks In-Reply-To: <1182418536.10205.52.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1182381512.21966.552.camel@erato.phig.org> <53a863600706202259k2bf28f1cy5db0c5ac0a33ecb8@mail.gmail.com> <1182418536.10205.52.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706210448n62246085w89968cef1d8bfc0@mail.gmail.com> Hey, I've added info to the Spins tasks section, but not sure I've formatted it quite as you'd hoped? I expect other docs will need adding to this page too, but I'm not sure of their status. Also, John, you were looking at the current LiveCD-howto? Should that be added to this task page? Cheers, Jon On 21/06/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 11:29 +0530, jose manimala wrote: > > Hey karsten, > > whats the Leadership task on the Docsproject/tasks page? > > Similar to the others, it is a page to list out tasks related to being a > leader in this project (FDP). > > My idea was to put down some tasks that help with FDP growth, progress, > recruiting, project completion, etc., which are tasks focused on what > FDP leaders are supposed to be doing. > > It's part of cultivating more leaders from within. :) > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 21 12:25:38 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 08:25:38 -0400 Subject: Links on docs.fp.o In-Reply-To: <1182418788.10205.57.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1182396783.3575.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182418788.10205.57.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1182428738.3698.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 02:39 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 23:33 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > Would there be a major objection to removing this from our docs.fp.o > > front page, and adding it as a task on the wiki? This would be an > > excellent task for someone who's a good wordsmith but doesn't have time > > to learn any high-powered docs tools. > > Heh, not going to just do a take-down, have to pause to swing the dirty > laundry around the room a few times, eh? Oops, it was probably ill-advised for me to send this before we zeroed in on the issue in IRC... I think I sent it mid-conversation without realizing it was so finger-pointy. I sometimes forget that not everyone reads CVS and I could have let this slip by unattributed.... :-\ But in all seriousness, I thought it would be worthwhile to get other people's take on a policy issue -- so I hope someone else comments now! :-D What I was *really* hoping is that we'd have lurkers on this list who would think, "Hey, wiki editing! *I* can do that!", then clean it up according to our guidelines, and everyone could go home happy. > Yes, I put up the link; probably in a bit of hasted and confusion around > the F7 release, I admit to only giving it a cursory glance. I was > relying upon the project behind the document to have made it technically > accurate, if not otherwise. But if it needs that much more love, then > it *must* be removed until then. Well, you're always proactively looking for ways to promote new content and the work that people are already doing around the project, which is a Good Thing. Occasionally if we cast too wide a net, it's no crime. I'd like more volunteers to be aware that if they keep their eyes open, they can find plenty of content to work on that doesn't require amazing deity-like superpowers. Come on lurkers, help us out here! Check out our general style guidelines[1] and see what you can do to fix this page[2]. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/LiveOS_README -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Jun 21 12:37:39 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 13:37:39 +0100 Subject: Links on docs.fp.o In-Reply-To: <1182428738.3698.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1182396783.3575.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182418788.10205.57.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182428738.3698.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706210537u6c067881ra3df42b9df7c4541@mail.gmail.com> Is this content to be added to the spins tasks? Haha, after taking a bit of a break from docs writing I'm back and eager again - at least for the next few days! Also, what are we focusing on, docs wise? I've seen a few posts, meeting logs, suggesting that we're going to team up on one doc at a time, but which ones have priority? Cheers all, Jon > Well, you're always proactively looking for ways to promote new content > and the work that people are already doing around the project, which is > a Good Thing. Occasionally if we cast too wide a net, it's no crime. > I'd like more volunteers to be aware that if they keep their eyes open, > they can find plenty of content to work on that doesn't require amazing > deity-like superpowers. > > Come on lurkers, help us out here! Check out our general style > guidelines[1] and see what you can do to fix this page[2]. > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/LiveOS_README > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 21 16:47:20 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:47:20 -0700 Subject: Links on docs.fp.o In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706210537u6c067881ra3df42b9df7c4541@mail.gmail.com> References: <1182396783.3575.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182418788.10205.57.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182428738.3698.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0706210537u6c067881ra3df42b9df7c4541@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1182444440.10205.65.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 13:37 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Is this content to be added to the spins tasks? Haha, after taking a > bit of a break from docs writing I'm back and eager again - at least > for the next few days! Yes, that is content you can choose to include in the spin guide. We were trying to link to something of value in the meantime, and cast the net pretty wide. :) It's the nature of a wiki, it is easy to do braindumps, and the formatting makes it look "good". > Also, what are we focusing on, docs wise? I've seen a few posts, > meeting logs, suggesting that we're going to team up on one doc at a > time, but which ones have priority? You know, that list never got out of the meeting, did it? Here, I'll send that out now for comments. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 21 16:55:32 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 09:55:32 -0700 Subject: one at a time Message-ID: <1182444932.10205.72.camel@erato.phig.org> In recent meetings, FDSCo decided it would be a good idea for all of us to focus on completing one guide at a time. Right now we are running in parallel and making slower progress. What do you think of this idea? How does this order sound? 1. SMG (split) => UG, AG 2. UG 3. SpinG 4. AG 5. DevelG 6. RPM Guide I think the first task is going to be fairly easily accomplished, and it supports the second. We've all agreed that the spin work is important, but it is targeted at a much smaller audience than the User Guide. My thinking for putting the spin work in front of the Admin Guide is that i) the spin work is easier (shorter, more material existing), and ii) the AG is going to be a bit harder to do. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Jun 21 17:05:45 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:05:45 +0100 Subject: one at a time In-Reply-To: <1182444932.10205.72.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1182444932.10205.72.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706211005g252e598ex534c9f4641dc8ab4@mail.gmail.com> On 21/06/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > In recent meetings, FDSCo decided it would be a good idea for all of us > to focus on completing one guide at a time. Right now we are running in > parallel and making slower progress. > > What do you think of this idea? Looks good to me :D > > How does this order sound? > > 1. SMG (split) => UG, AG Pirut and Pup tutorials have already been moved to the UG, does anything else need moving to the UG? I'll move across what I guess is appropriate to the AG now, unless others have objections? > 2. UG Could do with the task list updating for this so we have know what we're doing when we get started? Lol, well I guess somebody knows what still needs doing, but I'm a little lost. > 3. SpinG I've done some updates to this today: talked to kanarip and he gave me a load of use cases he would like to see documented, which I threw onto a wiki page. I've written one and will progress on the others as we go. > 4. AG > 5. DevelG > 6. RPM Guide > > I think the first task is going to be fairly easily accomplished, and it > supports the second. We've all agreed that the spin work is important, > but it is targeted at a much smaller audience than the User Guide. Yeah, definately :D > > My thinking for putting the spin work in front of the Admin Guide is > that i) the spin work is easier (shorter, more material existing), and > ii) the AG is going to be a bit harder to do. :) Haha yes I like this thinking. Hope my comments were helpful/relevant. Jon From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 21 23:18:48 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2007 16:18:48 -0700 Subject: one at a time In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706211005g252e598ex534c9f4641dc8ab4@mail.gmail.com> References: <1182444932.10205.72.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706211005g252e598ex534c9f4641dc8ab4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1182467928.10205.148.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 18:05 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > On 21/06/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > 1. SMG (split) => UG, AG > > Pirut and Pup tutorials have already been moved to the UG, does > anything else need moving to the UG? I'll move across what I guess is > appropriate to the AG now, unless others have objections? Solid, thanks. Looks good so far. Is there any 'orphaned' content? > > 2. UG > > Could do with the task list updating for this so we have know what > we're doing when we get started? Lol, well I guess somebody knows what > still needs doing, but I'm a little lost. Mr. Babich has a fair number of ideas. There may in fact be a to-do list in the Docs/Drafts/UserGuide ... or a bunch of stubbed-out pages with to-do information in them. Those could be turned into some tasks ... > > 3. SpinG > > I've done some updates to this today: talked to kanarip and he gave me > a load of use cases he would like to see documented, which I threw > onto a wiki page. I've written one and will progress on the others as > we go. OK. I don't mind any of these being worked in parallel, within the frame of the "one at a time" idea. That's how stuff works, it needs little shifts forward. The idea is to keep going back to the "current task document" and pushing on it toward completion. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From josemm at fedoraproject.org Fri Jun 22 05:35:58 2007 From: josemm at fedoraproject.org (jose manimala) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:05:58 +0530 Subject: rpm guide Message-ID: <53a863600706212235s200c9335v10ee72a5fc1496d3@mail.gmail.com> Ok as on the tasks page, i will move the rpm guide to a new page stub with the docs template in mind. i will take over as maintainer for it. But i saw a mail corresponding to an order in which tasks are to be completed: do i go according to that or should i move the rpm guide to a new page... i require guidence here. Thanks -- Jose M Manimala S6 Computer science and engineering Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology Ph: +919846367850 http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Jun 22 06:34:10 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:34:10 +0300 Subject: one at a time In-Reply-To: <1182467928.10205.148.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1182444932.10205.72.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706211005g252e598ex534c9f4641dc8ab4@mail.gmail.com> <1182467928.10205.148.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706212334p7a1cacb8xf299528426fe599d@mail.gmail.com> On 6/22/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 18:05 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > On 21/06/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > 1. SMG (split) => UG, AG > > > > Pirut and Pup tutorials have already been moved to the UG, does > > anything else need moving to the UG? I'll move across what I guess is > > appropriate to the AG now, unless others have objections? > > Solid, thanks. Looks good so far. Is there any 'orphaned' content? > Thanks, Jonathan, for the updated material. I am reviewing it and will do some wordsmithing on it. > > > 2. UG > > > > Could do with the task list updating for this so we have know what > > we're doing when we get started? Lol, well I guess somebody knows what > > still needs doing, but I'm a little lost. > > Mr. Babich has a fair number of ideas. There may in fact be a to-do > list in the Docs/Drafts/UserGuide ... or a bunch of stubbed-out pages > with to-do information in them. Those could be turned into some > tasks ... > Mr. Babich wishes to inform Mr. Wade that he does indeed have ideas which he shall implement in the near future. Mr. Roberts and others are most welcome to continue their laudatory efforts. (Translation: Thanks, quaid, I do. Kudos once again to JonRob.) I'm working on getting more reliable internet access from home. It's been very frustrating lately with my current ISP. I should have a decent, if slow, DSL connection in 6-8 weeks. Meanwhile, I'll keep on keeping on. John Babich Volunteer, FDP From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 22 07:50:23 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 00:50:23 -0700 Subject: one at a time In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0706212334p7a1cacb8xf299528426fe599d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1182444932.10205.72.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0706211005g252e598ex534c9f4641dc8ab4@mail.gmail.com> <1182467928.10205.148.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0706212334p7a1cacb8xf299528426fe599d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1182498623.10205.165.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 09:34 +0300, John Babich wrote: > I'm working on getting more reliable internet access from home. It's > been very frustrating lately with my current ISP. I should have a decent, > if slow, DSL connection in 6-8 weeks. Meanwhile, I'll keep on keeping > on. One thing that saves me ... I can load a bunch of wiki pages in a browser, edit them, then use It's All Text[1] to put them all in an editor (Emacs) for later. Then I have something to work on when offline. :) - Karsten [1] https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/4125 -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 22 10:16:44 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 03:16:44 -0700 Subject: rpm guide In-Reply-To: <53a863600706212235s200c9335v10ee72a5fc1496d3@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706212235s200c9335v10ee72a5fc1496d3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1182507404.10205.183.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 11:05 +0530, jose manimala wrote: > Ok as on the tasks page, i will move the rpm guide to a new page stub > with the docs template in mind. i will take over as maintainer for it. > But i saw a mail corresponding to an order in which tasks are to be > completed: do i go according to that or should i move the rpm guide to > a new page... i require guidence here. Go ahead and start writing up some tasks here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/RPMGuide?action=edit&template=DocsTaskListTemplate As for the order of completion, this is related but different. We are suggesting that *all* writers/editors in this project work to get each guide completed, one at a time. I.e., in serial not in parallel. Of course, some work happens in parallel, but our "push to publish" is one guide at a time. This is a suggestion, optional, etc., but it might be a good way for us to get next versions published. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Fri Jun 22 10:54:45 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 11:54:45 +0100 Subject: SMG -> AG Message-ID: <3263b11b0706220354h6f6fb30eleb894ea97304b701@mail.gmail.com> I've just finished dumping all the bits from the SMG -> AG. I think links etc will still need updating, and a few other things, so I'll try and take a look at them later today... Cheers, Jon From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 22 12:49:43 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 12:49:43 +0000 Subject: rpm guide In-Reply-To: <1182507404.10205.183.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <53a863600706212235s200c9335v10ee72a5fc1496d3@mail.gmail.com> <1182507404.10205.183.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1182516583.10662.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 03:16 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 11:05 +0530, jose manimala wrote: > > Ok as on the tasks page, i will move the rpm guide to a new page stub > > with the docs template in mind. i will take over as maintainer for it. > > But i saw a mail corresponding to an order in which tasks are to be > > completed: do i go according to that or should i move the rpm guide to > > a new page... i require guidence here. > > Go ahead and start writing up some tasks here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/RPMGuide?action=edit&template=DocsTaskListTemplate > > As for the order of completion, this is related but different. We are > suggesting that *all* writers/editors in this project work to get each > guide completed, one at a time. I.e., in serial not in parallel. > > Of course, some work happens in parallel, but our "push to publish" is > one guide at a time. > > This is a suggestion, optional, etc., but it might be a good way for us > to get next versions published. As we get these guides finished, we'll also be transitioning them to CVS and XML, meaning we can have members of the whole group take just a small number of chapters to convert to DocBook XML. This gives everyone a chance to learn how to use it, and CVS. I put a little more information up this morning on the wiki concerning DocBook: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocBook -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 22 12:50:10 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 08:50:10 -0400 Subject: SMG -> AG In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0706220354h6f6fb30eleb894ea97304b701@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0706220354h6f6fb30eleb894ea97304b701@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1182516610.10662.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 11:54 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > I've just finished dumping all the bits from the SMG -> AG. I think > links etc will still need updating, and a few other things, so I'll > try and take a look at them later today... Excellent, keep up the good work Jon! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 22 13:39:51 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:39:51 -0400 Subject: Again, DocBook Visions Message-ID: <1182519591.13124.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> If you're a Fedora Documentation Project contributor, or you want to be, this message is for you. We keep a lot of our work -- the really good stuff -- in DocBook XML in a CVS source code repository. Learning to use it is pretty easy, but if you're not a hardcore geek, it can be scary getting stared. (I know, I was scared of it when I started too.) This morning I updated http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocBook to point to our example tutorial, a sort of "show and tell" device for learning DocBook XML. It has long segments of explanatory text that tell you how to get started using DocBook. http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/example-tutorial/en_US/example-tutorial2.xml?root=docs&view=markup If you've never used DocBook, or only used it a little, and want to be a powerful contributor to the project, this tutorial may help! It would be great if all new contributors would check out the tutorial through the link above. Read it, and feel free to ask questions here or on IRC (irc.freenode.net) at #fedora-docs. I'd also appreciate feedback if you feel something's missing or confusing. You can even be a superstar and file a bug at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/ under Fedora Documentation => example-tutorial. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Fri Jun 22 15:38:59 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 16:38:59 +0100 Subject: SMG -> AG In-Reply-To: <1182516610.10662.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3263b11b0706220354h6f6fb30eleb894ea97304b701@mail.gmail.com> <1182516610.10662.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3263b11b0706220838h6a637b3ag8a681e44adac247f@mail.gmail.com> On 22/06/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 11:54 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > I've just finished dumping all the bits from the SMG -> AG. I think > > links etc will still need updating, and a few other things, so I'll > > try and take a look at them later today... OK, I've just finished updating the links through the AG SM stuff...so, it would probably be good if somebody could check through it at some point because I've probably missed bits and pieces somewhere!! Also, I've removed numbering on it because Karsten informed me docbook does this automagically so that might save some headaches later :D Anything else need doing to finish splitting the content from the SMG -> AG/UG? Cheers, Jon From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 22 17:01:48 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 10:01:48 -0700 Subject: rpm guide In-Reply-To: <1182516583.10662.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <53a863600706212235s200c9335v10ee72a5fc1496d3@mail.gmail.com> <1182507404.10205.183.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182516583.10662.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1182531708.10205.215.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 12:49 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > As we get these guides finished, we'll also be transitioning them to CVS > and XML, meaning we can have members of the whole group take just a > small number of chapters to convert to DocBook XML. This gives everyone > a chance to learn how to use it, and CVS. I put a little more > information up this morning on the wiki concerning DocBook: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocBook I heard a rumor that Bart had some useful notes after his last wiki2xml experience. Raw though they may be, can we get them up on ... DP/Wiki2XML(?)? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tommy.reynolds at megacoder.com Fri Jun 22 22:02:23 2007 From: tommy.reynolds at megacoder.com (tommy.reynolds at megacoder.com) Date: Fri, 22 Jun 2007 17:02:23 -0500 Subject: Again, DocBook Visions In-Reply-To: <1182519591.13124.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1182519591.13124.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1182549743.8900.1196607019@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Fri, 22 Jun 2007 09:39:51 -0400, "Paul W. Frields" said: > This morning I updated http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocBook > to point to our example tutorial, a sort of "show and tell" device for > learning DocBook XML. It has long segments of explanatory text that > tell you how to get started using DocBook. > > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/example-tutorial/en_US/example-tutorial2.xml?root=docs&view=markup Paul, I think Harlan Ellison would be proud. You've done well in annotating the example material. Folks should also know that although our DocBook/XML toolchain is a shell command, not a GUI, once you have a DocBook XML source file you can produce the finished product with one command: $ make Of course, finer control is available but nobody should be reluctant to try the DocBook and CVS tools because they are not fluent with shell commands, Makefiles, and the lot. Cheers From josemm at fedoraproject.org Sat Jun 23 05:37:04 2007 From: josemm at fedoraproject.org (jose manimala) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:07:04 +0530 Subject: Rpm-guide page Message-ID: <53a863600706222237n2f9186aeide61680c0d762d17@mail.gmail.com> Hey i have made the rpm-guide page and the tasks need to be updated. i am going to list a few tasks soon. Anyone can contribute feel free to add tasks as required!! cheers -- Jose M Manimala S6 Computer science and engineering Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology Ph: +919846367850 http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 From josemm at fedoraproject.org Sat Jun 23 06:15:52 2007 From: josemm at fedoraproject.org (josemm at fedoraproject.org) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 11:45:52 +0530 Subject: rpm guide In-Reply-To: <1182531708.10205.215.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <53a863600706212235s200c9335v10ee72a5fc1496d3@mail.gmail.com> <1182507404.10205.183.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182516583.10662.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182531708.10205.215.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <53a863600706222315me914594n842b23d893c2c5fa@mail.gmail.com> Hello, should there be a link to the rpm guide on the docs.fedoraproject.org wiki. or is it that only the completed tasks are put on the bar on the left hand side. anyway there is no reference to the rpm guide on the docs.fedoraproject.org wiki. Its almost as if the guide is not present on the site. A few questions 1. can there be a link on the main page that points to the rpm guide? Jose Manimala On 6/22/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 12:49 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > As we get these guides finished, we'll also be transitioning them to CVS > > and XML, meaning we can have members of the whole group take just a > > small number of chapters to convert to DocBook XML. This gives everyone > > a chance to learn how to use it, and CVS. I put a little more > > information up this morning on the wiki concerning DocBook: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocBook > > I heard a rumor that Bart had some useful notes after his last wiki2xml > experience. Raw though they may be, can we get them up on ... > DP/Wiki2XML(?)? > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > -- Jose M Manimala S6 Computer science and engineering Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology Ph: +919846367850 http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 From josemm at fedoraproject.org Sat Jun 23 07:03:58 2007 From: josemm at fedoraproject.org (jose manimala) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:33:58 +0530 Subject: rpm guide In-Reply-To: <53a863600706222315me914594n842b23d893c2c5fa@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706212235s200c9335v10ee72a5fc1496d3@mail.gmail.com> <1182507404.10205.183.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182516583.10662.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182531708.10205.215.camel@erato.phig.org> <53a863600706222315me914594n842b23d893c2c5fa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <53a863600706230003y62e32330y7027dd25f125d2b3@mail.gmail.com> Hello everyone, i have added the first task to the RPM guide page. If there are any problems or if the task is not clear please email me with the corrections that need to be done or feel free to edit the page(just let me know). Thanks in advance On 6/23/07, josemm at fedoraproject.org wrote: > Hello, > should there be a link to the rpm guide on the > docs.fedoraproject.org wiki. or is it that only the completed tasks > are put on the bar on the left hand side. anyway there is no reference > to the rpm guide on the docs.fedoraproject.org wiki. Its almost as if > the guide is not present on the site. A few questions > > 1. can there be a link on the main page that points to the rpm guide? > > Jose Manimala > > On 6/22/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-06-22 at 12:49 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > As we get these guides finished, we'll also be transitioning them to CVS > > > and XML, meaning we can have members of the whole group take just a > > > small number of chapters to convert to DocBook XML. This gives everyone > > > a chance to learn how to use it, and CVS. I put a little more > > > information up this morning on the wiki concerning DocBook: > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/DocBook > > > > I heard a rumor that Bart had some useful notes after his last wiki2xml > > experience. Raw though they may be, can we get them up on ... > > DP/Wiki2XML(?)? > > > > - Karsten > > -- > > Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > > > > -- > Jose M Manimala > S6 Computer science and engineering > Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology > Ph: +919846367850 > http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr > GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 > -- Jose M Manimala S6 Computer science and engineering Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology Ph: +919846367850 http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 From josemm at fedoraproject.org Sat Jun 23 07:04:44 2007 From: josemm at fedoraproject.org (jose manimala) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 12:34:44 +0530 Subject: rpm guide In-Reply-To: <53a863600706230003y62e32330y7027dd25f125d2b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706212235s200c9335v10ee72a5fc1496d3@mail.gmail.com> <1182507404.10205.183.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182516583.10662.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182531708.10205.215.camel@erato.phig.org> <53a863600706222315me914594n842b23d893c2c5fa@mail.gmail.com> <53a863600706230003y62e32330y7027dd25f125d2b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <53a863600706230004h4f550c82x32040f18c33d1303@mail.gmail.com> The link to the new page is: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/RPMGuide -- Jose M Manimala S6 Computer science and engineering Rajagiri School Of Engineering And Technology Ph: +919846367850 http://www.jmm-blog.co.nr GPGkeyID: 98FF52D2 From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jun 23 13:51:40 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 23 Jun 2007 06:51:40 -0700 Subject: rpm guide In-Reply-To: <53a863600706222315me914594n842b23d893c2c5fa@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600706212235s200c9335v10ee72a5fc1496d3@mail.gmail.com> <1182507404.10205.183.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182516583.10662.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182531708.10205.215.camel@erato.phig.org> <53a863600706222315me914594n842b23d893c2c5fa@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1182606700.10205.281.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-06-23 at 11:45 +0530, josemm at fedoraproject.org wrote: > Hello, > should there be a link to the rpm guide on the > docs.fedoraproject.org wiki. or is it that only the completed tasks > are put on the bar on the left hand side. Second part is correct -- only completed docs are supposed to be published on the front of docs.fedoraproject.org. > anyway there is no reference > to the rpm guide on the docs.fedoraproject.org wiki. Its almost as if > the guide is not present on the site. It's true that it is not made obvious anywhere; you have to know where to look. http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/ That content is generated from: cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs/rpm-guide/ You can check out that module from anonymous CVS or with a user account. It may need some updates to work with current version of the toolchain; let's find out. > A few questions > > 1. can there be a link on the main page that points to the rpm guide? The RPM Guide is two years out of date. I agree there could be a box for "DRAFT" documents on the front of docs.fedoraproject.org. This guide needs more work, then we can put out a new draft. We've talked about having an automagic way that builds all the documents from HEAD in CVS, then publishes them at for example docs.fedoraproject.org/rawdocs or /docs-rawhide. So, there are a couple of ways we can make the guide available while it is being worked on. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From anton.n.petrov at gmail.com Sun Jun 24 00:23:41 2007 From: anton.n.petrov at gmail.com (Anton N. Petrov) Date: Sun, 24 Jun 2007 04:23:41 +0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Anton N. Petrov Message-ID: <467DB98D.2090706@gmail.com> # Full legal name (as you use it is fine) Anton N. Petrov # City, Country Saint-Petersburg, Russia # Profession or Student status Software Engineer # Your goals in the Fedora Project I intend to begin with translation of the software and documentation into Russian. Also I want to do as much as I can to change the "Disable SELinux"-all-around situation. SELinux was a decisive point when I chose Fedora Core as an OS for my [Web]server, so I'm very concerned about it. # Historical qualifications Experienced in project planning/management, C/C++ programming, *ML/PHP/MySQL, network administration. I have some knowledge in Java, Perl, and linux kernel :) I spend a lot of my time with Fedora. # GPG KEYID and fingerprint pub 1024D/BBC51CDA 2007-06-19 [expires: 2008-06-18] Key fingerprint = FD2F C8C2 D4A8 EDA3 315D 85C7 B670 BAC8 BBC5 1CDA uid Anton N. Petrov (Fedora Project) sub 2048g/50DA3D51 2007-06-19 [expires: 2008-06-18] Best regards, Anton. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Jun 25 09:24:07 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:24:07 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: Anton N. Petrov In-Reply-To: <467DB98D.2090706@gmail.com> References: <467DB98D.2090706@gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706250224h6aad3504i85bf913eea44302d@mail.gmail.com> ????? ??????????!* I agree with you that SELinux is one of the great tools which sets Fedora apart from other linux distributions. As you may know, there is an ongoing effort to provide updated documentation for SELinux. See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SELinux/, for example. You may want to contribute to the English version and/or translate it into Russian. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project *(courtesy of Google) From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 25 22:57:45 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 25 Jun 2007 22:57:45 +0000 Subject: Meeting tomorrow (2007-06-25) Message-ID: <1182812265.3424.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> I am so sorry, guys, but I will have to miss tomorrow's meeting. Work has me out of the office tomorrow at an all day (and most of the night) meeting. I will be around on IRC for a while tonight and if I have something to ask/report/raise, I'll send mail and put it on the agenda page at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings. Of course I'll be logging per usual, so feel free to nick-drop as needed. ;-) Apologies again. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 26 00:45:43 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 00:45:43 +0000 Subject: rpm guide In-Reply-To: <1182606700.10205.281.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <53a863600706212235s200c9335v10ee72a5fc1496d3@mail.gmail.com> <1182507404.10205.183.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182516583.10662.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182531708.10205.215.camel@erato.phig.org> <53a863600706222315me914594n842b23d893c2c5fa@mail.gmail.com> <1182606700.10205.281.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1182818743.3424.50.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-06-23 at 06:51 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > You can check out that module from anonymous CVS or with a user account. > It may need some updates to work with current version of the toolchain; > let's find out. A "make validate-xml-en_US" generates no errors, so I'm guessing we're good to go there. > > A few questions > > > > 1. can there be a link on the main page that points to the rpm guide? > > The RPM Guide is two years out of date. I agree there could be a box > for "DRAFT" documents on the front of docs.fedoraproject.org. This > guide needs more work, then we can put out a new draft. My predilection would be to avoid the ever-present lure of "too many links" syndrome and just have a "Drafts" link after the existing boxes. That could point to a list that also includes the wiki. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 26 09:34:42 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 02:34:42 -0700 Subject: Meeting tomorrow (2007-06-25) In-Reply-To: <1182812265.3424.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1182812265.3424.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1182850482.10205.586.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 22:57 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I am so sorry, guys, but I will have to miss tomorrow's meeting. Work > has me out of the office tomorrow at an all day (and most of the night) > meeting. I will be around on IRC for a while tonight and if I have > something to ask/report/raise, I'll send mail and put it on the agenda > page at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings. > Of course I'll be logging per usual, so feel free to nick-drop as > needed. ;-) Apologies again. Hmmm ... Turns out I need to be in transit during the meeting tomorrow. Also, looking over the potential agenda, I wonder what we have to discuss? It all really needs to be focused on this list, what we are doing, and getting it done. Any thoughts about canceling this week and doing a status update via the ML? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Tue Jun 26 12:54:36 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 13:54:36 +0100 Subject: Meeting tomorrow (2007-06-25) In-Reply-To: <1182850482.10205.586.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1182812265.3424.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182850482.10205.586.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <46810C8C.3050508@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 22:57 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> I am so sorry, guys, but I will have to miss tomorrow's meeting. Work >> has me out of the office tomorrow at an all day (and most of the night) >> meeting. I will be around on IRC for a while tonight and if I have >> something to ask/report/raise, I'll send mail and put it on the agenda >> page at >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings. >> Of course I'll be logging per usual, so feel free to nick-drop as >> needed. ;-) Apologies again. > > Hmmm ... > > Turns out I need to be in transit during the meeting tomorrow. Also, > looking over the potential agenda, I wonder what we have to discuss? It > all really needs to be focused on this list, what we are doing, and > getting it done. > > Any thoughts about canceling this week and doing a status update via the > ML? Fine by me. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From couf at skynet.be Tue Jun 26 13:06:11 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 15:06:11 +0200 Subject: Meeting tomorrow (2007-06-25) In-Reply-To: <1182850482.10205.586.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1182812265.3424.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182850482.10205.586.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1182863171.25818.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op dinsdag 26-06-2007 om 02:34 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Karsten Wade: > On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 22:57 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I am so sorry, guys, but I will have to miss tomorrow's meeting. Work > > has me out of the office tomorrow at an all day (and most of the night) > > meeting. I will be around on IRC for a while tonight and if I have > > something to ask/report/raise, I'll send mail and put it on the agenda > > page at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings. > > Of course I'll be logging per usual, so feel free to nick-drop as > > needed. ;-) Apologies again. > > Hmmm ... > > Turns out I need to be in transit during the meeting tomorrow. Also, > looking over the potential agenda, I wonder what we have to discuss? It > all really needs to be focused on this list, what we are doing, and > getting it done. > Yeah, I'll be missing this week and next week's meeting as well. > Any thoughts about canceling this week and doing a status update via the > ML? Sure, no problem Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Jun 26 13:17:33 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 16:17:33 +0300 Subject: Meeting tomorrow (2007-06-25) In-Reply-To: <1182863171.25818.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1182812265.3424.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182850482.10205.586.camel@erato.phig.org> <1182863171.25818.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706260617x181d5b85hcb18148df16ccc6@mail.gmail.com> It's OK by me if we skip the meeting this week as I am extremely busy at work today. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 26 15:03:59 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 08:03:59 -0700 Subject: Meeting tomorrow (2007-06-25) In-Reply-To: <1182850482.10205.586.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1182812265.3424.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1182850482.10205.586.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1182870239.10205.591.camel@erato.phig.org> Done; meeting is canceled for this week. I'll throw out some status and request the same from others, a little later today. On Tue, 2007-06-26 at 02:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2007-06-25 at 22:57 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I am so sorry, guys, but I will have to miss tomorrow's meeting. Work > > has me out of the office tomorrow at an all day (and most of the night) > > meeting. I will be around on IRC for a while tonight and if I have > > something to ask/report/raise, I'll send mail and put it on the agenda > > page at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings. > > Of course I'll be logging per usual, so feel free to nick-drop as > > needed. ;-) Apologies again. > > Hmmm ... > > Turns out I need to be in transit during the meeting tomorrow. Also, > looking over the potential agenda, I wonder what we have to discuss? It > all really needs to be focused on this list, what we are doing, and > getting it done. > > Any thoughts about canceling this week and doing a status update via the > ML? > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jun 27 00:32:27 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 17:32:27 -0700 Subject: misc status 26 June Message-ID: <1182904347.10205.687.camel@erato.phig.org> Since we didn't have a steering committee meeting today, I thought I would update some status on a few things I'm doing or overseeing: * Some increased activity around the idea of working through all guides one at a time. The first task, of getting software management content into the user and admin guides, is complete. ** Now we all need to write, read, edit, fix, and pay attention to: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide (John - what is the idea with Docs/Drafts/UserGuide redirecting to DesktopUserGuide? ** Anyone care that "FUG" (Fedora User Guide) and "FAG" (Fedora Administrator Guide) might have other meanings to people? * New content publication system. We are waiting for a Plone version to become available before deploying. In the meantime, we have been working up the enhancement requests (RFEs) for the system, via this mailing list. Expect some update from Jon Steffan, who is doing the custom coding and roll-out as a GSoC project. * New translation system quietly went live this week. As content providers, we should be happy at the integration and overall quality of what is going on. Personally, I'm very excited by the surge of energy in the Translation Project. http://translate.fedoraproject.org * One project quietly making progress is the man/info page wiki editor: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/VillePekkaVainio Ville-Pekka's blog was just added to planet.fedoraproject.org; sorry I didn't think of that previously. You can catch up on the project status with this tag: http://vpv.kapsi.fi/blog/category/summercode/ * New canonical legal pages. We might want to migrate the Wiki-based content there and make it all one location, forevermore: http://fedoraproject.org/legal /me adds that to a task ... DocsProject/Tasks/Wiki2CMS That's what is occurring to me right now. I'm going to send this before I forget to send it and it becomes another unfinished task. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jeevanullas at gmail.com Fri Jun 29 02:01:10 2007 From: jeevanullas at gmail.com (Deependra Singh Shekhawat) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 07:31:10 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Deependra Singh Shekhawat Message-ID: <1183082470.21964.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Deependra Singh Shekhawat #City, Country, TimeZone Jodhpur, India, IST #Profession Student: Doing Master of computer application from Engineering College #School School of Engineering Jai Narain Vyas University Jodhpur, Rajasthan, India #Goals in Fedora Project I want to write more about the existing guides covering the topics about "Cobbler", "Virtualization" , "Python" etc. In etc. I would like to include the different server packages like sendmail, qmail, bind, apache, nfs and samba. The above servers I have included because I have done RHCE (Redhat certified Engineer) and in the past worked as a Redhat Trainer in a local training partner here. So I would like to contribute my knowledge into the Docs covering them. I have included "Cobbler" and "virtualization" because I have been experimenting with them for the past few months. Mainly configuring them and testing them. "Python" because I am currently learning it. If I can help in this it will be my pleasure. #Historical qualifications BCA (Bachelor of Computer Applications) RHCE (Redhat Certified Engineer) in January 2006. Redhat Trainer at local training center for 4 months. Efficient in: C/C++/Data-Structures/User Interface Design/Network administration Some knowledge in Python/RPM/GTK/PyGTK I have been using Fedora and Redhat Enterprise Linux for about 3 years for my personal use and otherwise. #GPG KeyID and FingerPrint [deepsa at localhost ~]$ gpg --fingerprint jeevanullas at gmail.com pub 1024D/483B234C 2007-06-29 [expires: 2008-06-28] Key fingerprint = ED45 62EA A4D7 53FB 44C7 774A D55B F3F0 483B 234C uid Deependra Singh Shekhawat (Fedora Project) sub 2048g/7E098D45 2007-06-29 [expires: 2008-06-28] Deependra Singh Shekhawat irc at freenode: openbysource From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jun 30 02:48:02 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 19:48:02 -0700 Subject: autobuild Message-ID: <1183171682.10205.1012.camel@erato.phig.org> Is it time to consider running an autobuild server for docs? 16:10 < daMaestro> also, i'll need to test render time for these documents -> all_lang ... because we really don't want to have a 5 minute render process triggered by plone.. that would just suck 16:11 < stickster> We may need to look at having those triggered and performed elsewhere, and picked up when finished http://autobuild.org/ We get two benefits: * Somewhere for Plone to pick up specific tags/branches * Docs rawhide - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Jun 30 16:52:58 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2007 19:52:58 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction: Deependra Singh Shekhawat In-Reply-To: <1183082470.21964.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1183082470.21964.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0706300952r21064b16t4984ca99a7a6bdd5@mail.gmail.com> On 6/29/07, Deependra Singh Shekhawat wrote: > > > #Goals in Fedora Project > > I want to write more about the existing guides covering the topics about > "Cobbler", "Virtualization" , "Python" etc. Welcome to the Fedora Docs Project, Deependra! > In etc. I would like to include the different server packages like > sendmail, qmail, bind, apache, nfs and samba. > The above servers I have included because I have done RHCE (Redhat > certified Engineer) and in the past worked as a Redhat Trainer in a > local training partner here. So I would like to contribute my knowledge > into the Docs covering them. Thanks for being willing to share your knowledge. > I have included "Cobbler" and "virtualization" because I have been > experimenting with them for the past few months. Mainly configuring them > and testing them. > "Python" because I am currently learning it. If I can help in this it > will be my pleasure. > You may consider using your Python skills to improve some of the tools we use. Right now, there are some "Summer of Code" projects being done in this area - afterwards, we may need someone to help maintain and further enhance them. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project