From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 01:35:29 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 17:35:29 -0800 Subject: Clearing out release notes In-Reply-To: <1172701933.23731.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172701933.23731.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1172712929.4651.382.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 17:32 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I'd like to suggest that we take the Docs/Beats/* pages, and strip out > all existing data up through the original FC6 final release. Any > remaining content is likely fresh enough for F7 release. I think I understand what you mean, but not for certain from the way this is worded. If you strip out everything, then there is nothing left to be fresh or stale for F7. But I believe you to mean that you are going to use the Get Info tool to generate a diff of the content added after the date of FC6 release from the content added before that date. > That way, we > don't risk contributors coming in to the "alpha" release thinking > there's no work to do when there's really quite a bit. > > I will volunteer to help if we can get enough +1's. +1 based on my understanding of the above situation/recommendation. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 02:16:32 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 21:16:32 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Election Results] In-Reply-To: <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> References: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0702272117n4b580819q240ad1bc2c513965@mail.gmail.com> <36695.192.168.100.90.1172648933.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <9d2c731f0702280106p5bc6cf62recdba785fa248b37@mail.gmail.com> <38141.80.229.93.1.1172658627.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 04:56 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Gavin Henry wrote: > > > >>> > >> I'm looking forward to them, especially the one on OpenLDAP. > >> Will that doc also address Fedora Directory Server? > > We can find documentation from the FDS wiki. Actually, there is very little documentation on the FDS wiki itself other than a (good) FAQ, feature list, and standard developer information. The majority of the "good" documentation is the Red Hat Directory Server Documentation, which does not offer very good practical hands-on information that puts it in reach of the majority of Fedora users. (It is *very* helpful for enterprise administrators, but they are less likely to use Fedora solutions for long-term support scenarios for good reasons.) Not to mention that none of these Red Hat documents are licensed in a compatible way content-wise. > > We don't know anything about FDS, and don't really want to ;-) OpenLDAP is > > far superior. > > I dont know anything about A but B is definitely better. Amusing. Isn't it? Actually, this *is* an interesting perspective of many users (of anything, as a matter of fact), that tends to take root when the vendor or offering entity doesn't have any clear hooks on which they can "sell" a product. This has been written about in a bunch of places, but I think most recently I've seen it come up tangentially on the "Creating Passionate Users" blog, which everyone around here should probably check out -- if only for a couple of priceless articles on good user manuals. FDS may or may not be fantastic, but it is poorly "marketed" and for darn sure it doesn't get talked about much. Quite a lot of that may be due to the fact that the folks working on it are very busy trying to make it better and don't have time to do that important user outreach. Fedora does a pretty good job project-wide on the whole, but even we can have problems from time to time getting our important messages out. And FDS is a weird subproject that hasn't received a lot of love from the community, and has been more of a "throw it over the wall" contribution, albeit a really cool one. I think this is a user perspective that we can actually learn from. Every opinion is a chance to learn how we can improve outreach. Well, *almost* every opinion. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 04:56:43 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 20:56:43 -0800 Subject: Clearing out release notes In-Reply-To: <45E60EE0.7070903@fedoraproject.org> References: <1172701933.23731.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E60EE0.7070903@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1172725003.4651.391.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 04:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I'd like to suggest that we take the Docs/Beats/* pages, and strip out > > all existing data up through the original FC6 final release. Any > > remaining content is likely fresh enough for F7 release. That way, we > > don't risk contributors coming in to the "alpha" release thinking > > there's no work to do when there's really quite a bit. > > > > I will volunteer to help if we can get enough +1's. > > Sure. We should do that as soon as we do a non-test Fedora release and > write down that as the process we follow after Fedora 7. This page should have the high-level workflow for everything from here forward. It should point out to detailed process pages, where needed. I just added the following: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow#ReleaseNotes I see there being only a few pages people need to know about to get work done in this project: DocsProject/Join DocsProject/WorkFlow Everything should be linked out from those pages. The first tells you how to get involved, the other directs you within each activity. Just a first stab at a simplifying idea for our project docs. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 05:06:48 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 21:06:48 -0800 Subject: Docs Project Structure? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1172725608.4651.403.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-02-19 at 16:02 -0500, Griff 5watt wrote: > I just recently got involved in the Docs Project and while getting my > head into it all, I had a few thoughts. Please let me know if I am > missing something. Sure thing; didn't mean to let this email stay unreplied-to for so long, but it is worth pausing and considering your points. > I read through the information in the wiki and did not see anywhere an > explicit mission statement about the Docs Project. Specifically what > I was looking for was information as to who the documentation was > geared for. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Mission Yep, it's definitely missing from that page. Ironic. I know it's been discussed before. One thing that we think of as self-evident, and which is obviously not, is that our mission is derived from the overall Fedora Project mission. Yet ... yet, this doesn't include some of the mission that we have accepted over the years, such as the care and feeding of the newbie user. > The 'Documentation' link on the front page of the Fedora Project wiki > brings up an unclear picture of the documentation as well. The > designation between the target audiences is not clearly defined, > flowing from [End User] Published Documents and Draft Documents right > into New Contributors and Developers. This is a natural consequence, originally, of the dichotomy we have. The formal project *specifically and explicitly* does not have the care and feeding of the newbie at the center. So, starting from that, we would want to focus only on power and expert users. However, in Linux documentation, that space is fairly well occupied. And more people came to this project interested in helping out newer users. We have yet to reconcile that dichotomy into a new, encompassing mission. > From what I have seen, there are three major categories that > documentation falls under. 1) The End User [defined below]; 2) The > Developer; 3) Other contributors. > > For me, the End User is the person looking to install and use Fedora > Linux. This person may be a home user doing email and watching videos > on the web; or the office worker doing email, documents and > spreadsheets; or the administrator supporting the office worker; or > the web developer who is doing their work on Linux. [+1] Agreed. There is also a cross over, in that developers and contributors are also end users. > Those who are involved in the development of Fedora Linux or > contribute in other ways are separate from the End User. There was > some talk at FUDCon about dividing the front page into three > sections... End User, Contributor, Developer. Documentation should > follow this division as well. It was more like, "Get, Learn, Join." Then from within each of those would be striations by experience. For example: Get => Fedora Linux (Anyone, newbies) Specialized ISOs (Anyone) Source code (power users) CVS access (developers) Learn => How to general stuff (new users) How to do system admin stuff (power users) How to hack the distro (developers) Join => Promote and spread the word (ambassadors) Essential and fun work (trans, docs, infrastructure, websites) Make the distro (packagers) Code the distro (developers) > If the real focus currently is the End User, then the main documents > required are: What I think has happened is this: * Sub-projects provide how-to-do-stuff-here for their own projects (covers packagers, developers, trans, infrastructure, etc.) * The power user/system administration level is still quite well covered from the community * This leaves the end user (as you call them), which we still need to define to some degree Maybe a good working definition of End User is, "New to Linux but not new to computing." For example, we don't want to be telling people how to use a mouse or what a GUI windowing system is. We are presuming some experience. One way we have tackled this was to have *each document* define its own audience, rather than picking one audience for the whole project. If you look at the top of each/most of these draft documents, you'll see the audience specified: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts > - The Installation Guide (How do I get Fedora Linux onto my machine?) > [available on fedora.redhat.com/docs/] > - The Desktop Users Guide (Now, what can I do with this default > install?) [available from the fedoraproject.org wiki] > - System Maintenance (How can I keep it running well?) [not > available?] > - Software Installation (How can I get more applications that will > hose my system?) [available? from fedora.redhat.com/docs/ 'Managing > Software with YUM'] > - and Support (What do I do to solve my problem?) [not available?] > [+2] > > Are there documents for Maintenance and Support? Some of the topics are covered in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide Calling them out as separate functions like that (maintenance, support) ... is that from the viewpoint of your identified audience? > Anyway, I am going to get back to reading what is currently out there > and try to be a constructive member of the group. > > ------------------------ > 1) I expect that our sponsor would prefer that the Office Worker, > Developer and the Administrator end-users would be using RHEL rather > than Fedora Linux, otherwise they would be eager for Fedora to provide > a server spin, thereby negating the need for the Fedora Project to > handle this documentation. However, if Fedora is truly to provide the > base for RHEL, then this would include documentation for these > users. This requires more direction from the appropriate > people. This leaves us with the Home User. I don't think we really need to consider Red Hat's commercial/business desires in this area. We are here to respond to the Fedora community. Otherwise we wouldn't have any focus on the new-to-Linux, with the historic attitude of Fedora-for-the-Linux-hobbyist. As for documentation provided for the various other audiences, the RHEL content services team has that pretty well sewed up: http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-5-manual/ Rumor has it that Fedora is supposed to receive that content as a contribution. If we accept the contribution, we are either upstream, downstream, forked, or cross-stream of that content. Either way, we'll see what we do when we have actual source in hand. > 2) In my view this document would start out with a brief list of those > tools that would be helpful in trouble shooting problems, and how to > use them. Then a list of external sites would be provided that would > allow the user to research their individual issue on their own, i.e. > fedoraforum.org, linuxforums.org, and linuxquestions.org. I like this idea. If there is not something that covers this in Docs/Drafts, you might want to start outlining there and see where it goes. There are some other pages that might be worth including: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugzilla http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BugsAndFeatureRequests cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Mar 1 07:50:34 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 13:20:34 +0530 Subject: PDF format guides Message-ID: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> Hi I would like to have our guides like the Installation one in PDF format. Is there any quick way to get them? Rahul From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Thu Mar 1 08:42:52 2007 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 08:42:52 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fwd: Election Results] In-Reply-To: <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> References: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0702272117n4b580819q240ad1bc2c513965@mail.gmail.com> <36695.192.168.100.90.1172648933.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <9d2c731f0702280106p5bc6cf62recdba785fa248b37@mail.gmail.com> <38141.80.229.93.1.1172658627.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <44211.192.168.100.90.1172738572.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> > Gavin Henry wrote: >> >>>> >>> I'm looking forward to them, especially the one on OpenLDAP. >>> Will that doc also address Fedora Directory Server? > > We can find documentation from the FDS wiki. True. > >> >> We don't know anything about FDS, and don't really want to ;-) OpenLDAP >> is >> far superior. > > I dont know anything about A but B is definitely better. Amusing. Isn't > it? Heh, yeah. That came out wrong ;-) > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Thu Mar 1 08:51:45 2007 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 08:51:45 -0000 (UTC) Subject: [Fwd: Election Results] In-Reply-To: <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0702272117n4b580819q240ad1bc2c513965@mail.gmail.com> <36695.192.168.100.90.1172648933.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <9d2c731f0702280106p5bc6cf62recdba785fa248b37@mail.gmail.com> <38141.80.229.93.1.1172658627.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <37116.192.168.100.90.1172739105.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> > On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 04:56 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Gavin Henry wrote: >> > >> >>> >> >> I'm looking forward to them, especially the one on OpenLDAP. >> >> Will that doc also address Fedora Directory Server? >> >> We can find documentation from the FDS wiki. > > Actually, there is very little documentation on the FDS wiki itself > other than a (good) FAQ, feature list, and standard developer > information. The majority of the "good" documentation is the Red Hat > Directory Server Documentation, which does not offer very good practical > hands-on information that puts it in reach of the majority of Fedora > users. (It is *very* helpful for enterprise administrators, but they > are less likely to use Fedora solutions for long-term support scenarios > for good reasons.) Not to mention that none of these Red Hat documents > are licensed in a compatible way content-wise. Agreed. > >> > We don't know anything about FDS, and don't really want to ;-) >> OpenLDAP is >> > far superior. >> >> I dont know anything about A but B is definitely better. Amusing. Isn't >> it? > > Actually, this *is* an interesting perspective of many users (of > anything, as a matter of fact), that tends to take root when the vendor > or offering entity doesn't have any clear hooks on which they can "sell" > a product. This has been written about in a bunch of places, but I > think most recently I've seen it come up tangentially on the "Creating > Passionate Users" blog, which everyone around here should probably check > out -- if only for a couple of priceless articles on good user manuals. > > FDS may or may not be fantastic, but it is poorly "marketed" and for > darn sure it doesn't get talked about much. Quite a lot of that may be > due to the fact that the folks working on it are very busy trying to > make it better and don't have time to do that important user outreach. > Fedora does a pretty good job project-wide on the whole, but even we can > have problems from time to time getting our important messages out. And > FDS is a weird subproject that hasn't received a lot of love from the > community, and has been more of a "throw it over the wall" contribution, > albeit a really cool one. > > I think this is a user perspective that we can actually learn from. > Every opinion is a chance to learn how we can improve outreach. Well, > *almost* every opinion. :-) Agreed. > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From dimitris at glezos.com Thu Mar 1 12:57:38 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:57:38 +0000 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> O/H Rahul Sundaram ??????: > I would like to have our guides like the Installation one in PDF format. > Is there any quick way to get them? You can quickly convert any HTML page to PDF using the `htmldoc` package. First build the doc using `make html-nochunks` and then pass it through the program. It's in Extras. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From gayathri.swa at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 14:06:51 2007 From: gayathri.swa at gmail.com (Gayathri Swaminathan) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 08:06:51 -0600 Subject: Clearing out release notes In-Reply-To: <1172725003.4651.391.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172701933.23731.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E60EE0.7070903@fedoraproject.org> <1172725003.4651.391.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: This my friend..is plenty useful. Will be very useful to have this one stop / process explained page especially to the n00bies. I also think the ordering works well. Excellent first stab! On 2/28/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > This page should have the high-level workflow for everything from here > forward. It should point out to detailed process pages, where needed. > I just added the following: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow#ReleaseNotes > > I see there being only a few pages people need to know about to get work > done in this project: > > DocsProject/Join > DocsProject/WorkFlow > > Everything should be linked out from those pages. The first tells you > how to get involved, the other directs you within each activity. > > Just a first stab at a simplifying idea for our project docs. > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- Gayathri Swaminathan gpgkey: 3EFB3D39 Volunteer, FDP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 15:30:49 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 07:30:49 -0800 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 12:57 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Rahul Sundaram ??????: > > I would like to have our guides like the Installation one in PDF format. > > Is there any quick way to get them? > > You can quickly convert any HTML page to PDF using the `htmldoc` package. First > build the doc using `make html-nochunks` and then pass it through the program. > > It's in Extras. If anyone wants to submit a patch to our toolchain to make this an option for 'make pdf', please do so. It's ugly but it's better than broken. Any objection to putting up PDF versions of our HTMl docs built using htmldoc, even though they are ugly? Other thoughts? - Karsten, in a "perfect is the enemy of good enough"-mood -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 15:41:36 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 10:41:36 -0500 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1172763696.31548.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 07:30 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 12:57 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > O/H Rahul Sundaram ??????: > > > I would like to have our guides like the Installation one in PDF format. > > > Is there any quick way to get them? > > > > You can quickly convert any HTML page to PDF using the `htmldoc` package. First > > build the doc using `make html-nochunks` and then pass it through the program. > > > > It's in Extras. > > If anyone wants to submit a patch to our toolchain to make this an > option for 'make pdf', please do so. > > It's ugly but it's better than broken. > > Any objection to putting up PDF versions of our HTMl docs built using > htmldoc, even though they are ugly? > > Other thoughts? > > - Karsten, in a "perfect is the enemy of good enough"-mood I think you mean, "Perfect is the enemy of pretty ugly but what else have we got?" :-D -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 15:50:13 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 07:50:13 -0800 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <1172763696.31548.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <1172763696.31548.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1172764213.4651.423.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 10:41 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I think you mean, "Perfect is the enemy of pretty ugly but what else > have we got?" :-D Careful with the clever quotes, I like "I'm in ur docs correctin ur speling" as the tag-lie quote on #fedora-docs /topic. I don't want to replace it too soon, just when that joke is thoroughly stale. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 17:05:13 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:05:13 -0500 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <1172764213.4651.423.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <1172763696.31548.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172764213.4651.423.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1172768713.32577.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 07:50 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 10:41 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > I think you mean, "Perfect is the enemy of pretty ugly but what else > > have we got?" :-D > > Careful with the clever quotes, I like "I'm in ur docs correctin ur > speling" as the tag-lie quote on #fedora-docs /topic. I don't want to > replace it too soon, just when that joke is thoroughly stale. Reports of my cleverness have been greatly exaggerated. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Mar 1 17:09:54 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:39:54 +0530 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 12:57 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> O/H Rahul Sundaram ??????: >>> I would like to have our guides like the Installation one in PDF format. >>> Is there any quick way to get them? >> You can quickly convert any HTML page to PDF using the `htmldoc` package. First >> build the doc using `make html-nochunks` and then pass it through the program. >> >> It's in Extras. > > If anyone wants to submit a patch to our toolchain to make this an > option for 'make pdf', please do so. > > It's ugly but it's better than broken. > > Any objection to putting up PDF versions of our HTMl docs built using > htmldoc, even though they are ugly? > > Other thoughts? Yes. Please do this. People have been bugging me to get a redistributable PDF for a while now. Rahul From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 17:46:44 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:46:44 +0300 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> FDP Team: PDF creation is a great idea. I brought it up in the past, and, until we get it automated in the toolchain, I'm glad to produce PDFs via cups-PDF and upload them and link them to the page. By simply changing settings using "File > Page Setup" in Firefox, you can produce pretty clean PDFs. Also, using explicit link references in a wiki page also makes it easier. (I need to change a few pages I worked on to follow this existing guideline). This method, although off-line, is clean and simple. I also created single-page views and encourage it to be adopted as a standard for multi-page docs in the wiki. This makes the PDF creation very straightforward. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Mar 1 18:25:11 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 23:55:11 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Election Results] In-Reply-To: <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0702272117n4b580819q240ad1bc2c513965@mail.gmail.com> <36695.192.168.100.90.1172648933.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <9d2c731f0702280106p5bc6cf62recdba785fa248b37@mail.gmail.com> <38141.80.229.93.1.1172658627.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45E71A87.5060609@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Actually, this *is* an interesting perspective of many users (of > anything, as a matter of fact), that tends to take root when the vendor > or offering entity doesn't have any clear hooks on which they can "sell" > a product. This has been written about in a bunch of places, but I > think most recently I've seen it come up tangentially on the "Creating > Passionate Users" blog, which everyone around here should probably check > out -- if only for a couple of priceless articles on good user manuals. > > FDS may or may not be fantastic, but it is poorly "marketed" and for > darn sure it doesn't get talked about much. I dont know where you are looking but I see it talked about in even other distribution forums quite often. Quite a lot of that may be > due to the fact that the folks working on it are very busy trying to > make it better and don't have time to do that important user outreach. > Fedora does a pretty good job project-wide on the whole, but even we can > have problems from time to time getting our important messages out. And > FDS is a weird subproject that hasn't received a lot of love from the > community, and has been more of a "throw it over the wall" contribution, > albeit a really cool one. Are you talking about perception or reality? Reality is that Fedora Directory Server has full time developers working on cleaning up the codebase (lots of cruft from its life as Netscape Directory Server) and adding new features. fedora-ds-base is even in Fedora Extras now thanks to folks from the community working on the reviews and sending patches. Java is a blocker for the nice gui on top but we should reach there soon. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 19:09:48 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 11:09:48 -0800 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 20:46 +0300, John Babich wrote: > FDP Team: > PDF creation is a great idea. > > I brought it up in the past, and, until we get it automated > in the toolchain, I'm glad to produce PDFs via cups-PDF > and upload them and link them to the page. Can you post or email me (so I can post) a version of the FC6 Installation Guide done using this method? Here is the one I built this morning using htmldoc, as per Dimitris suggestion: http://people.redhat.com/kwade/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en_US.pdf I'd like to compare the quality of the two. I put up the no-chunks HTML that I used, in case you don't have a build environment handy. :) http://people.redhat.com/kwade/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en_US.html > By simply changing settings using "File > Page Setup" in > Firefox, you can produce pretty clean PDFs. > > Also, using explicit link references in a wiki page also > makes it easier. (I need to change a few pages I worked on > to follow this existing guideline). > > This method, although off-line, is clean and simple. > > I also created single-page views and encourage it to be > adopted as a standard for multi-page docs in the wiki. > > This makes the PDF creation very straightforward. Right, this is a good idea for Wiki-sourced content. However, I think we still want to move documents from Docs/Drafts => XML, rather than having them at Docs. I got an email this morning from someone pointing out that not letting people edit or make comments on a document in Docs defeats the purpose of having it in a Wiki. I agree, and want to get our formally published documents out of the Wiki. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 19:10:14 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:10:14 -0500 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1172776214.32577.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 20:46 +0300, John Babich wrote: > FDP Team: > PDF creation is a great idea. > > I brought it up in the past, and, until we get it automated > in the toolchain, I'm glad to produce PDFs via cups-PDF > and upload them and link them to the page. > > By simply changing settings using "File > Page Setup" in > Firefox, you can produce pretty clean PDFs. > > Also, using explicit link references in a wiki page also > makes it easier. (I need to change a few pages I worked on > to follow this existing guideline). > > This method, although off-line, is clean and simple. > > I also created single-page views and encourage it to be > adopted as a standard for multi-page docs in the wiki. > > This makes the PDF creation very straightforward. This might be preferable to the htmldoc method, which is automatable but *extremely* ugly. Lots of intrusive hi-ASCII characters in headings, for one thing. If anyone can help fix that, great. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 19:14:12 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:14:12 -0500 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1172776452.32577.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 11:09 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 20:46 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > FDP Team: > > PDF creation is a great idea. > > > > I brought it up in the past, and, until we get it automated > > in the toolchain, I'm glad to produce PDFs via cups-PDF > > and upload them and link them to the page. > > Can you post or email me (so I can post) a version of the FC6 > Installation Guide done using this method? > > Here is the one I built this morning using htmldoc, as per Dimitris > suggestion: > > http://people.redhat.com/kwade/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en_US.pdf Ouch, and I see misplaced graphics overwriting text, et al.... :-P -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 19:16:55 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 11:16:55 -0800 Subject: [Fwd: Election Results] In-Reply-To: <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0702272117n4b580819q240ad1bc2c513965@mail.gmail.com> <36695.192.168.100.90.1172648933.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <9d2c731f0702280106p5bc6cf62recdba785fa248b37@mail.gmail.com> <38141.80.229.93.1.1172658627.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1172776615.4651.467.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 21:16 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > for good reasons.) Not to mention that none of these Red Hat documents > are licensed in a compatible way content-wise. IIRC, the content is licensed under the OPL without restrictions. Red Hat made sure that our control over the copyright was enough to do this, or we made separate arrangements with the other copyright holders (Sun, AOL). The problem is not the license but the notable absence of source XML. > FDS is a weird subproject that hasn't received a lot of love from the > community, and has been more of a "throw it over the wall" contribution, > albeit a really cool one. I think it is much more than that, it is quite active, and all the development of the enterprise product happens on the tip of CVS in cvs.fedoraproject.org. The problem seems to be more of knitting together the existing FDS community with the Fedora community. Not quite as hard as the idea of knitting jboss.org and Fedora, but still something that needs to be done deliberately. Being close physically to the FDS team and having at one time been the lead content writer for that team, I'd be happy to work on this knitting. Umm, sometime. Soon, maybe even, if we have an imperative. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 19:20:05 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 11:20:05 -0800 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <1172776214.32577.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> <1172776214.32577.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1172776805.4651.470.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 14:10 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > This might be preferable to the htmldoc method, which is automatable but > *extremely* ugly. Lots of intrusive hi-ASCII characters in headings, > for one thing. If anyone can help fix that, great. The method John used might also be automated, if there is a CLI for cups-PDF. Alternately, maybe a nice Dogtail script. It can't be part of the Makefile, but could be at least be easier to do. All stop-gap, of course. I expect great things from the Java kids for F7. Right? - Karsten, who needs to find out the latest on the Java dependencies -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 19:21:35 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:21:35 -0500 Subject: [OT] Re: FDS In-Reply-To: <45E71A87.5060609@fedoraproject.org> References: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0702272117n4b580819q240ad1bc2c513965@mail.gmail.com> <36695.192.168.100.90.1172648933.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <9d2c731f0702280106p5bc6cf62recdba785fa248b37@mail.gmail.com> <38141.80.229.93.1.1172658627.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <45E71A87.5060609@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1172776895.32577.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 23:55 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > Actually, this *is* an interesting perspective of many users (of > > anything, as a matter of fact), that tends to take root when the vendor > > or offering entity doesn't have any clear hooks on which they can "sell" > > a product. This has been written about in a bunch of places, but I > > think most recently I've seen it come up tangentially on the "Creating > > Passionate Users" blog, which everyone around here should probably check > > out -- if only for a couple of priceless articles on good user manuals. > > > > FDS may or may not be fantastic, but it is poorly "marketed" and for > > darn sure it doesn't get talked about much. > > I dont know where you are looking but I see it talked about in even > other distribution forums quite often. I don't think its visibility is as good as it could be. In part that could be due to the fact that good practical documentation is a little harder to find (and, to be fair, produce) for this kind of product. > Quite a lot of that may be > > due to the fact that the folks working on it are very busy trying to > > make it better and don't have time to do that important user outreach. > > Fedora does a pretty good job project-wide on the whole, but even we can > > have problems from time to time getting our important messages out. And > > FDS is a weird subproject that hasn't received a lot of love from the > > community, and has been more of a "throw it over the wall" contribution, > > albeit a really cool one. > > Are you talking about perception or reality? Reality is that Fedora > Directory Server has full time developers working on cleaning up the > codebase (lots of cruft from its life as Netscape Directory Server) and > adding new features. fedora-ds-base is even in Fedora Extras now thanks > to folks from the community working on the reviews and sending patches. > Java is a blocker for the nice gui on top but we should reach there soon. Number of developers is not equal to marketing. New features and presence in the repositories is not equal to marketing. GUI is not equal to marketing. My point was not that FDS is not good -- I actually like it and use it at work. But this is not the first time I've heard people say "Huh?" or misunderstand the feature set when I tell them about it. That tells me our message is not getting out. *That's* about marketing. This is merely a reminder that we also want to guide perception in addition to providing real results. Further discussion probably belongs elsewhere for now since we're way OT here. Reality is for developers, and perception is for marketers. There's good work to be done by both. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 19:28:43 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:28:43 -0500 Subject: FDS In-Reply-To: <1172776615.4651.467.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0702272117n4b580819q240ad1bc2c513965@mail.gmail.com> <36695.192.168.100.90.1172648933.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <9d2c731f0702280106p5bc6cf62recdba785fa248b37@mail.gmail.com> <38141.80.229.93.1.1172658627.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172776615.4651.467.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1172777323.32577.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 11:16 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-02-28 at 21:16 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > for good reasons.) Not to mention that none of these Red Hat documents > > are licensed in a compatible way content-wise. > > IIRC, the content is licensed under the OPL without restrictions. Red > Hat made sure that our control over the copyright was enough to do this, > or we made separate arrangements with the other copyright holders (Sun, > AOL). > > The problem is not the license but the notable absence of source XML. The wiki says the best documentation is at rh.c/docs/manuals/dir-server, where I find this (the Administrator's Guide, for example): http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/dir-server/ag/7.1/titlepg.html OPL + restrictions. > > FDS is a weird subproject that hasn't received a lot of love from the > > community, and has been more of a "throw it over the wall" contribution, > > albeit a really cool one. > > I think it is much more than that, it is quite active, and all the > development of the enterprise product happens on the tip of CVS in > cvs.fedoraproject.org. The problem seems to be more of knitting > together the existing FDS community with the Fedora community. Not > quite as hard as the idea of knitting jboss.org and Fedora, but still > something that needs to be done deliberately. > > Being close physically to the FDS team and having at one time been the > lead content writer for that team, I'd be happy to work on this > knitting. Umm, sometime. Soon, maybe even, if we have an imperative. I don't know about imperative, but perhaps this is just a matter of lots of people still doing very useful and cool work, but none of them writers now. The RH docs are great, but very little for FDS seems to be helpful from a hands-on perspective. Only about a million or so sysadmins would like to see cookbooks for providing FDS services for their heterogeneous networks! There's probably a great place for that in FDP if we ever have someone with the requisite KSAs and writing time... (Not pointing in Karsten's direction since he's already working on a *lot* of stuff.) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 19:34:21 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 14:34:21 -0500 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <1172776805.4651.470.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> <1172776214.32577.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172776805.4651.470.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1172777661.32577.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 11:20 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 14:10 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > This might be preferable to the htmldoc method, which is automatable but > > *extremely* ugly. Lots of intrusive hi-ASCII characters in headings, > > for one thing. If anyone can help fix that, great. > > The method John used might also be automated, if there is a CLI for > cups-PDF. Alternately, maybe a nice Dogtail script. It can't be part > of the Makefile, but could be at least be easier to do. Did somebody say Dogtail? :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 20:00:23 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:00:23 -0800 Subject: FDS In-Reply-To: <1172777323.32577.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0702272117n4b580819q240ad1bc2c513965@mail.gmail.com> <36695.192.168.100.90.1172648933.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <9d2c731f0702280106p5bc6cf62recdba785fa248b37@mail.gmail.com> <38141.80.229.93.1.1172658627.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172776615.4651.467.camel@erato.phig.org> <1172777323.32577.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1172779223.4651.474.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 14:28 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > The wiki says the best documentation is at rh.c/docs/manuals/dir-server, > where I find this (the Administrator's Guide, for example): > > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/dir-server/ag/7.1/titlepg.html > > OPL + restrictions. Oh, boy, another windmill to tilt at. *sigh* I believe it is not the intention of Red Hat to restrict those documents, but I could be wrong about these ones. Could be. > I don't know about imperative, but perhaps this is just a matter of lots > of people still doing very useful and cool work, but none of them > writers now. The RH docs are great, but very little for FDS seems to be > helpful from a hands-on perspective. Only about a million or so > sysadmins would like to see cookbooks for providing FDS services for > their heterogeneous networks! There's probably a great place for that > in FDP if we ever have someone with the requisite KSAs and writing > time... (Not pointing in Karsten's direction since he's already working > on a *lot* of stuff.) I'm not a subject matter expert (SME); my main role in that product line was driving the idea and then the activities to get the 3000+ pages of content converted from FrameMaker-produced-HTML into DocBook XML. So, I know the documentation set far better than the material covered by it. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 1 20:01:25 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 12:01:25 -0800 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 36, Issue 28 In-Reply-To: <51617.198.82.185.72.1172599905.squirrel@webmail.fedoraunity.org> References: <20070227170035.C22BF735EA@hormel.redhat.com> <51617.198.82.185.72.1172599905.squirrel@webmail.fedoraunity.org> Message-ID: <1172779285.4651.477.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 18:11 +0000, jbwillia at fedoraunity.org wrote: > i just tried to vote and it says voteing closed Yes, it probably closed before you received the daily-digest. Sorry. :( - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ncorrare at fedoraproject.org Thu Mar 1 21:03:59 2007 From: ncorrare at fedoraproject.org (Nicolas Antonio Corrarello) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 18:03:59 -0300 Subject: OLPC In-Reply-To: <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> Message-ID: <45E73FBF.6030503@fedoraproject.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Some shots of myself in the OLPC press conference http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicolasCorrarello/OLPC27022007 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF5z+/4UWy+d/Ik+4RAmDoAJ91U50+4+LhWobm3/xWnDerJ+6T9QCfbmO1 JJiijv8UfKs8Ujg+2rxb8ag= =jREY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 22:43:32 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 17:43:32 -0500 Subject: FDS In-Reply-To: <1172779223.4651.474.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0702272117n4b580819q240ad1bc2c513965@mail.gmail.com> <36695.192.168.100.90.1172648933.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <9d2c731f0702280106p5bc6cf62recdba785fa248b37@mail.gmail.com> <38141.80.229.93.1.1172658627.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <45E60F9C.1090306@fedoraproject.org> <1172715392.27726.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172776615.4651.467.camel@erato.phig.org> <1172777323.32577.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172779223.4651.474.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1172789012.32577.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 12:00 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 14:28 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I don't know about imperative, but perhaps this is just a matter of lots > > of people still doing very useful and cool work, but none of them > > writers now. The RH docs are great, but very little for FDS seems to be > > helpful from a hands-on perspective. Only about a million or so > > sysadmins would like to see cookbooks for providing FDS services for > > their heterogeneous networks! There's probably a great place for that > > in FDP if we ever have someone with the requisite KSAs and writing > > time... (Not pointing in Karsten's direction since he's already working > > on a *lot* of stuff.) > > I'm not a subject matter expert (SME); my main role in that product line > was driving the idea and then the activities to get the 3000+ pages of > content converted from FrameMaker-produced-HTML into DocBook XML. So, I > know the documentation set far better than the material covered by > it. :) *nod... In no way did I mean to implicate you in the process. :-) But maybe this is something Gavin could start with if and when he's available and driven... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Mar 2 01:37:06 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 01:37:06 +0000 Subject: promoting Docs/Beats as relnotes for test3 In-Reply-To: <1172663315.4651.270.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172663315.4651.270.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45E77FC2.5080808@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > Since test3 is also going to be a one-sheet for release notes, how does > this idea sound? I'm +1 on this. Do we already send a reminder on -maintainers every time a release is about to come? If not, we should schedule it to urge maintainers put content. This reminder could be embedded in Jesse Keating's freeze reminder or could shortly follow it. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Mar 2 02:10:42 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 02:10:42 +0000 Subject: [Fwd: Election Results] In-Reply-To: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172620259.4651.192.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45E787A2.90401@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > Thanks to all of you who voted. The top four vote receivers hold their > seats (voluntarily) for twelve months. The next three have their seats > up for re-election in six months; they of course may run for their seat > again at that time. > > After the next election in six months, we can review as a group if we > like to do twice-yearly or yearly elections for FDSCo. > > Nominees -- thanks again for stepping up. You rock. Keep up the good > work you know that you do. Thanks to all for the vote of confidence. :-) In case someone has missed it, Karsten has recently written some thoughts [1] about the elections that (at least) I, found very nice: [1]: http://iquaid.livejournal.com/14413.html Keep up the good work everyone! Lets see those plans [2] get implemented right away. :) [2]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Nominations -d > > - Karsten > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > Results for the Fedora Documentation Steering Committee February 2007 > > Votes | Candidate > ------+---------------------------- > 20 | Paul W. Frields pfrields > 18 | Karsten Wade kwade > 17 | Dimitris Glezos glezos > 16 | Robert 'Bob' Jensen bjensen > 14 | John Babich jmbabich > 10 | Pawel Sadowski mcgiwer > 10 | Bart Couvreur couf > 7 | Gavin Henry ghenry > > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Fri Mar 2 08:31:19 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:31:19 -0800 Subject: h1 in Wiki Message-ID: <1172824279.4651.516.camel@erato.phig.org> I've lost track of what we want to appear as a primary header (h1) on a Wiki page. That is, we sometimes use this: {{{#!html

Page Title

}}} Is this strictly for visual affect? In the case of the Docs/Beats, I think we need to stick to a strict usage of each page having only one h1 and all other content being a sub: = Page Title = == A Section == === Sub-section A === === Sub-section B === == Another Section == According to this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki ... that is our method. Seem reasonable? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Mar 2 14:14:28 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 14:14:28 +0000 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45E83144.5050607@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Thu, 2007-03-01 at 20:46 +0300, John Babich wrote: >> FDP Team: >> PDF creation is a great idea. >> >> I brought it up in the past, and, until we get it automated >> in the toolchain, I'm glad to produce PDFs via cups-PDF >> and upload them and link them to the page. > > Can you post or email me (so I can post) a version of the FC6 > Installation Guide done using this method? I mentioned `htmldoc` many months ago on the IRC but maybe everyone was drunk back then and didn't pay attention. Darn, I *really* should start writing everything (ideas, tasks) down for future reference... :/ I've updated our wiki page about the PDF creation together with some TODOs. Anyone wants to help out with those? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tools/PDFconversion Attached on the page you can find a PDF I created and instructions/info about the use of `htmldoc`. Here's a quick link [1]. [1]:http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tools/PDFconversion?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=FIG-htmldoc.pdf The cool thing with this is that we can add many 'no-chunks' files to naivly create a big Guide. > I think > we still want to move documents from Docs/Drafts => XML, rather than > having them at Docs. I got an email this morning from someone pointing > out that not letting people edit or make comments on a document in Docs > defeats the purpose of having it in a Wiki. I agree, and want to get > our formally published documents out of the Wiki. :) I think we should really try to find a way not only to create our docs online but to also *maintain* them. "Wiki -> XML" is indeed great, but unless we get it as much automated as possible, the overhead is a nightmare. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Mar 2 15:33:14 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:33:14 +0000 Subject: h1 in Wiki In-Reply-To: <1172824279.4651.516.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172824279.4651.516.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45E843BA.80802@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > I've lost track of what we want to appear as a primary header (h1) on a > Wiki page. That is, we sometimes use this: > > {{{#!html >

Page Title

}}} > > Is this strictly for visual affect? The above is the same as `== Page Title ==`, so we could just strip the obfuscation and use the syntax. After ``, `<h1>` is the most important heading. On the wiki, I believe the correct way to use it would be a title-style description of the page. Something like a more decriptive of the pagename. For example: /DocsProject has: = The Documentation Project = In general, only one h1 should exist on a page, unless the page contents are so disorganized that cannot fit under one category. This does not apply to our wiki though (we just split the page in two if this happens). > In the case of the Docs/Beats, I think we need to stick to a strict > usage of each page having only one h1 and all other content being a sub: > > = Page Title = > > == A Section == > ... Correct. The way I see best a wiki page to be structured is shown below. Of course, Beats don't have a TOC or breadcrumbs. > You are here: Home > Foo > Bar< > > = Page title similar to page name = > > Some text describing the page. No more than 3 paragraphs, no less than one. > > [TableOfContents] > > == Foo section == > > Text that describes/introduces the content of Foo section. > > === Subsection === > > ... > > ---- > CategoryFoo -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Fri Mar 2 16:26:03 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:26:03 -0800 Subject: promoting Docs/Beats as relnotes for test3 In-Reply-To: <45E77FC2.5080808@glezos.com> References: <1172663315.4651.270.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E77FC2.5080808@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1172852763.2865.34.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 01:37 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > > Since test3 is also going to be a one-sheet for release notes, how does > > this idea sound? > > I'm +1 on this. > > Do we already send a reminder on -maintainers every time a release is about to > come? If not, we should schedule it to urge maintainers put content. This > reminder could be embedded in Jesse Keating's freeze reminder or could shortly > follow it. Added: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow#ReleaseNotes We need more to it than that, obviously. The workflow step hopefully reminds us. Probably want to get the URL into a template that Jesse uses, and discuss if we want to/can automate nagmail. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070302/dd94dfc6/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Fri Mar 2 16:31:58 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 08:31:58 -0800 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <45E83144.5050607@glezos.com> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E83144.5050607@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1172853118.2865.40.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 14:14 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > I think we should really try to find a way not only to create our docs online > but to also *maintain* them. "Wiki -> XML" is indeed great, but unless we get it > as much automated as possible, the overhead is a nightmare. One concern is that we are creating two classes of document -- static formal publications and appears-to-be-dynamic because it is published at wiki/Docs. The overhead to produce and maintain the static content is considerable, compared to the Wiki. However, the Wiki is trapping -- it makes you comfortable with its workings, your content gets trapped there in a way that is increasingly difficult to extract, it's nearly impossible to localize with Fedora L10n tools, etc. This is why, despite the pain, I've been driving us toward a "Wiki as $EDITOR" approach. Unfortunately, doing this requires more resources doing Web app programming, and that is not a big skill in this project. So, our project is vying for resources in Infrastructure and Websites. We could choose to go backward/sideways from here and make it all Wiki. Or ... Well, the point is, it is always open for discussion what we can and should do. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070302/292c9da1/attachment.sig> From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 16:28:37 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 19:28:37 +0300 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0703020828w3524de6ey7b5ab521dd4f15f2@mail.gmail.com> On 3/1/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > Here is the one I built this morning using htmldoc, as per Dimitris > suggestion: > > http://people.redhat.com/kwade/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en_US.pdf > > I'd like to compare the quality of the two. I put up the no-chunks HTML > that I used, in case you don't have a build environment handy. :) > > http://people.redhat.com/kwade/fedora/fedora-install-guide-en_US.html > I uploaded a quick PDF I created with no attempt to beautify it. I took your no-chunks HTML and just printed it using cups-PDF. I didn't see any graphics in your web page, except for admonitions icons, so you won't see any in the doc. The links for the PDF files are: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=FC6UG.pdf Another example is the Desktop User Guide, complete with screenshots, at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=DUG.pdf This was produced from this link: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/DesktopUserGuide/Print using File > Print (using printer CUPS/cups-PDF). The output is even cleaner if you select http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/DesktopUserGuide/Print?action=print which is the same as "Print View" under "More Actions" on the wiki page. Let me know what you think of these samples. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From stickster at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 17:49:56 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 12:49:56 -0500 Subject: h1 in Wiki In-Reply-To: <45E843BA.80802@glezos.com> References: <1172824279.4651.516.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E843BA.80802@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1172857796.14117.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 15:33 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > > I've lost track of what we want to appear as a primary header (h1) on a > > Wiki page. That is, we sometimes use this: > > > > {{{#!html > > <h2>Page Title</h2>}}} > > > > Is this strictly for visual affect? > > The above is the same as `== Page Title ==`, so we could just strip the > obfuscation and use the syntax. It's not necessarily obfuscation -- the point is not the appearance, but rather how it gets converted to DocBook. To find out the effects, try converting a Beats page to DocBook and see how the sectioning using '=', '==', etc. changes the resulting markup. The end goal in converting the Beats is for each Beat to be a file containing a top-level <section>, all of which are XIncludes in the parent <article> file. Before we declare a standard here, check to see what it implies for the conversion process and how much more editing is required to get the resulting file in shape for publication. I remember having to deal with this several times, and unfortunately I took crappy (meaning "no") notes on the right and wrong ways of doing this. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070302/d272b5e3/attachment.sig> From couf at skynet.be Fri Mar 2 18:40:51 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:40:51 +0100 Subject: agenda for 06-Mar-2007 FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <1172644131.4651.216.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172644131.4651.216.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45E86FB3.8070207@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade schreef: > We have a few items that have backed up to deal with; please help me > make sure that enough of these *decision* items make it on the agenda. > Bringing them up on-list means we can work out the details *before the > meeting*. This is a new paradigm for FDSCo, but one we have all spoken > of following (iirc). ;-) > So let's get the on-list decision stuff done then :) > 0. Meeting time -- [LIST DECISION] So I've been looking through our previous thread[1] on this very subject and the small consensus seemed to be the three-hour window. Tue 2100 UTC +3 to Tue 0000 UTC +3 Tue 1800 UTC to Tue 2100 UTC Tue 1300 EST to Tue 1600 EST Tue 1000 PST to Tue 1300 PST Is this still probable? We should identify specific "full committee" decisions ahead of time, to make sure we have a quorum hanging around. (candidates see below) > > 1. Elect new chair/project leader [MEETING DECISION] > 1.1 Decide if chair is 12 mon. or 6 mon. position? [MEETING DECISION] > -- on-list discussion? - -> This would be a candidate > > 2. Meetings on #fedora-docs v. #fedora-meeting [MEETING DECISION] > > 3. Confirm FDP schedule for F7 [LIST DISCUSSION],[MEETING DECISION] We should consider L10N workload here, maybe only do a final version of guides on L10N-level. > 4. AOB > > - --Bart [1]: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-February/msg00066.html - -- Bart <couf at fedoraproject.org> <couf at skynet.be> key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6G+yrbZrKtk/D5MRAtFwAJ9km+FtH2ZxC6YwvFUW+JPUe4TGrQCdHs8w PDj5NwEMhEnTCHbRhrMENEo= =Os8L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Fri Mar 2 18:57:51 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 10:57:51 -0800 Subject: agenda for 06-Mar-2007 FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <1172644131.4651.216.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172644131.4651.216.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1172861871.2865.57.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-02-27 at 22:28 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > We have a few items that have backed up to deal with; please help me > make sure that enough of these *decision* items make it on the agenda. > Bringing them up on-list means we can work out the details *before the > meeting*. This is a new paradigm for FDSCo, but one we have all spoken > of following (iirc). ;-) > > 0. Meeting time -- [LIST DECISION] > > 1. Elect new chair/project leader [MEETING DECISION] > 1.1 Decide if chair is 12 mon. or 6 mon. position? [MEETING DECISION] > -- on-list discussion? > > 2. Meetings on #fedora-docs v. #fedora-meeting [MEETING DECISION] > > 3. Confirm FDP schedule for F7 [LIST DISCUSSION],[MEETING DECISION] > > 4. AOB 4. Decide to keep or retire fedora-dsco-list [MEETING DECISION] > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070302/6ac211d2/attachment.sig> From couf at skynet.be Fri Mar 2 18:58:13 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:58:13 +0100 Subject: DocsProject wikispace reorganization [RFC] Message-ID: <45E873C5.90700@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hey *, in spite of the recent "Docs Project Structure" mail, I've been trying to get my head around the wiki-space we own. People who want to see how - should I call it unorganized? - our project's pages are, go to the DocsProject page and add anything to the url that doesn't exist, it'll give you a list of all pages beneath DocsProject/ (e.g. fp.o/wiki/DocsProject/foo) So here's a reorganization proposal: DocsProject/ |-- Join | |--Writer | |--Editor | \--Translator |-- Goals / Mission |-- Schedule | \--some pages with details (e.g. specific schedules on DUG, IG) |-- Tasks (considering all FDP related tasks and processes) | |--Guides | |--Relnotes | |--Browser splash page | |--Plone | |--Ideas-page | \--Release announcement (not sure if we should do this) |-- FDSCo (or steering committee) | |--Charter | |--Meeting minutes | |--Elections | |--Nominations | \--Task Schedule \-- Workflow |--Docbook (how to write + intro) |--CVS (usage) |--Wiki (how to write) |--Publishing (web, PDF?) \--Tools And some general ideas: a) Create a default template for all Docs-related pages on the wiki (breadcrumb, default header, ...) to create a common look-and-feel b) Move everything in /Docs/Drafts to DocsProject/Drafts so users know that everything in /Docs is published documentation. As I said, it's all just an idea / proposal. Comments? Bart - -- Bart <couf at fedoraproject.org> <couf at skynet.be> key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6HPFrbZrKtk/D5MRAundAJ4mfftwtgspoZZBb2y8yXn2zRlqmwCeMDUT FXP6QRJZlJNCaM7in+JooEI= =Yi2v -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Mar 2 20:37:25 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 20:37:25 +0000 Subject: DocsProject wikispace reorganization [RFC] In-Reply-To: <45E873C5.90700@skynet.be> References: <45E873C5.90700@skynet.be> Message-ID: <45E88B05.8050404@glezos.com> O/H Bart Couvreur ??????: > Hey *, > > in spite of the recent "Docs Project Structure" mail, I've been trying > to get my head around the wiki-space we own. > > People who want to see how - should I call it unorganized? - our > project's pages are, go to the DocsProject page and add anything to the > url that doesn't exist, it'll give you a list of all pages beneath > DocsProject/ (e.g. fp.o/wiki/DocsProject/foo) > > So here's a reorganization proposal: > > DocsProject/ > |-- Join > | |--Writer > | |--Editor > | \--Translator > |-- Goals / Mission > |-- Schedule > | \--some pages with details (e.g. specific schedules on DUG, IG) > |-- Tasks (considering all FDP related tasks and processes) > | |--Guides > | |--Relnotes > | |--Browser splash page > | |--Plone > | |--Ideas-page > | \--Release announcement (not sure if we should do this) > |-- FDSCo (or steering committee) > | |--Charter > | |--Meeting minutes > | |--Elections > | |--Nominations > | \--Task Schedule > \-- Workflow > |--Docbook (how to write + intro) > |--CVS (usage) > |--Wiki (how to write) > |--Publishing (web, PDF?) > \--Tools > Seems like a good idea. Would require some work though: pages renamed and `#REDIRECT` statements put in the old ones, making sure links are changed etc. Take a look at the FUDCon Boston brainstorming [1] page and the recent Artwork Team page redesign process [2]. [1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/MainPageRedesign2007 [2]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ArtTeam Some other suggestions: * Add "Various" for misc stuff * Rename Schedule to Roadmap? * Add a "Requests" page, as in RFE/bugs. > And some general ideas: > a) Create a default template for all Docs-related pages on the wiki > (breadcrumb, default header, ...) to create a common look-and-feel This is something me and Mairin were talking about: introduce page templates in various parts of the wiki. It would be a good idea to > b) Move everything in /Docs/Drafts to DocsProject/Drafts so users know > that everything in /Docs is published documentation. Not sure this is worth the effort. :/ -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Mar 2 21:16:03 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 21:16:03 +0000 Subject: Yet another PDF export tool -- WikiPublisher Message-ID: <45E89413.2030607@glezos.com> And here is our interesting-new-tool-of-the-week. :) Trying to find something similar to `doc-book.sf.net` I stumbled upon WikiPublisher [1]: [1]: http://www.wikipublisher.org It's basically a plugin for 'pmwiki' that outputs a 'WikiBook XML' and a server that converts this syntax to PDF. This allows to ouput a PDF from any wiki page *and* create whole books based on inter-wiki links. You can try this by clicking Typeset book at [2]: [2]: http://www.wikipublisher.org/wiki/index.php?n=Wikipublisher.UserGuide The server is written in Perl and uses Latex to do the job. To use it, we'd need to write a plugin for Moin to export to the Wikibook XML and run the Perl server. Pros: * Backend is upstream and actively developed * Customizable PDF * Backend is in Perl (not PHP) Cons: * Requires yet another export mechanism * Backend is in Perl (not Python) * DocBook out of the way -- how to do translations?? -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 20:21:45 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:21:45 -0500 Subject: DocsProject wikispace reorganization [RFC] In-Reply-To: <45E873C5.90700@skynet.be> References: <45E873C5.90700@skynet.be> Message-ID: <1172866905.14117.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 19:58 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hey *, > > in spite of the recent "Docs Project Structure" mail, I've been trying > to get my head around the wiki-space we own. > > People who want to see how - should I call it unorganized? - our > project's pages are, go to the DocsProject page and add anything to the > url that doesn't exist, it'll give you a list of all pages beneath > DocsProject/ (e.g. fp.o/wiki/DocsProject/foo) > > So here's a reorganization proposal: > > DocsProject/ > |-- Join > | |--Writer > | |--Editor > | \--Translator > |-- Goals / Mission > |-- Schedule > | \--some pages with details (e.g. specific schedules on DUG, IG) > |-- Tasks (considering all FDP related tasks and processes) > | |--Guides > | |--Relnotes > | |--Browser splash page > | |--Plone > | |--Ideas-page > | \--Release announcement (not sure if we should do this) > |-- FDSCo (or steering committee) > | |--Charter > | |--Meeting minutes > | |--Elections > | |--Nominations > | \--Task Schedule > \-- Workflow > |--Docbook (how to write + intro) > |--CVS (usage) > |--Wiki (how to write) > |--Publishing (web, PDF?) > \--Tools > > And some general ideas: > a) Create a default template for all Docs-related pages on the wiki > (breadcrumb, default header, ...) to create a common look-and-feel > b) Move everything in /Docs/Drafts to DocsProject/Drafts so users know > that everything in /Docs is published documentation. > > As I said, it's all just an idea / proposal. Comments? As an exercise in -- I don't know, hubris? ignorance? -- I'm going to look at this list and make sugggestions, *completely blind* to the actual content of the current wiki. 1. Goals/Mission should be combined, cut down to a single concise paragraph or list, and appear on the front page. 2. The FDSCo/TaskSchedule stuff should be moved under the Schedule/ namespace. Everyone can work on these tasks, not just FDSCo members, and both the Publication Schedule and the DocTools Schedule should be linked or transcluded on the main schedule page. 3. The Workflow pages are a great asset and should relieve the Documentation Guide of some of its content. I think Karsten was in agreement with this point, since we worked on that some at FUDCon. 4. The browser splash page now exists, and there's probably no need to document it on the wiki -- we can use Bugzilla for RFE's or to track problems and to-do's. 5. There should perhaps be a Join item for Toolchain Builder. That's all I have. This is a great goal and I would love to see people start cobbling on this stuff ASAP once we have buy-in from enough contributors. Bart, I think you just elected yourself point-man! :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070302/f295bf15/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Fri Mar 2 20:36:15 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 15:36:15 -0500 Subject: agenda for 06-Mar-2007 FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <45E86FB3.8070207@skynet.be> References: <1172644131.4651.216.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E86FB3.8070207@skynet.be> Message-ID: <1172867775.14117.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 19:40 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Karsten Wade schreef: > > We have a few items that have backed up to deal with; please help me > > make sure that enough of these *decision* items make it on the agenda. > > Bringing them up on-list means we can work out the details *before the > > meeting*. This is a new paradigm for FDSCo, but one we have all spoken > > of following (iirc). ;-) > > > So let's get the on-list decision stuff done then :) > > > 0. Meeting time -- [LIST DECISION] > > So I've been looking through our previous thread[1] on this very subject > and the small consensus seemed to be the three-hour window. > > Tue 2100 UTC +3 to Tue 0000 UTC +3 > Tue 1800 UTC to Tue 2100 UTC > Tue 1300 EST to Tue 1600 EST > Tue 1000 PST to Tue 1300 PST > > Is this still probable? We should identify specific "full committee" > decisions ahead of time, to make sure we have a quorum hanging around. > (candidates see below) I have two problems here, one of them selfishly motivated and the other decidedly not: 1. Selfish reason: That's smack in the middle of my workday, and my $DAYJOB cuts me *ZERO* time for Fedora. That's not to say I don't sneak some in here and there, but Fedora is the first thing that gets eliminated when I have deadlines or priorities to meet. I would REALLY like to be involved in these meetings, but I simply can't commit to it during these hours. :-( Nevertheless, there's always IRC logging and catchup that would make up for it somewhat, and waiting for me to get home automatically pushes our European contingent into very late hours, so I understand. Is there no one interested in a weekend meeting? (I know, we all need lives.) 2. Unselfish reason: This project has really begun to do a LOT of work on IRC and not on the mailing list. The number of people on IRC is *FAR* fewer than the number of people on the mailing list, and I worry that our opportunities for public collaboration are being stifled in that regard. We have a lot of lurkers who might be drawn in by the right conversation or idea. The 3-hour meeting idea might contribute to this, but I'm not sure. If I'm retreading old ground or reversing myself, mea culpa, I am legion. > > 1. Elect new chair/project leader [MEETING DECISION] > > 1.1 Decide if chair is 12 mon. or 6 mon. position? [MEETING DECISION] > > -- on-list discussion? > - -> This would be a candidate > > > > 2. Meetings on #fedora-docs v. #fedora-meeting [MEETING DECISION] > > > > 3. Confirm FDP schedule for F7 [LIST DISCUSSION],[MEETING DECISION] > > We should consider L10N workload here, maybe only do a final version of > guides on L10N-level. The benefit of pushing it a couple times is that small changes (which inevitably happen from the last test => final, regardless of whining to the contrary!) can make it into the guides. We've made a lot of progress toward minimizing string changes so I would hope the extra work would be minimal, unlike the release notes situation we landed in last release, which was unintentional and shouldn't recur with our current procedures. Pushing twice also means that if a translation team puts off one project in favor of the other (relnotes, guides), they have that opportunity without having to accomplish everything at one time on a short deadline. (Yikes!) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070302/e263a2dc/attachment.sig> From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Mar 3 13:25:24 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 13:25:24 +0000 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0703020828w3524de6ey7b5ab521dd4f15f2@mail.gmail.com> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0703020828w3524de6ey7b5ab521dd4f15f2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45E97744.80304@glezos.com> O/H John Babich ??????: > On 3/1/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > >> Here is the one I built this morning using htmldoc, as per Dimitris >> suggestion: > I uploaded a quick PDF I created with no attempt to beautify it. I took > your no-chunks HTML and just printed it using cups-PDF. I didn't see > any graphics in your web page, except for admonitions icons, so you > won't see any in the doc. So we now have two ways to create PDFs. One is `htmldoc` and the other is `cups-PDF`. Although none of them at the time is integrated into our toolchain, they are not bad at all to manually create some PDFs and upload them to fedora.redhat.com/docs/. I prefer the second way for three reasons: It works, it gives us with no extra work a high-quality PDF and CSS is effective there, so we can control the output pretty well before getting the PDF. I'll investigate producing PDFs from `make html-nochunks` and see whether the CSS property `page-break-before:` works and try to make it more usable a bit. Does anyone know whether we can use it from the command-line? -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 14:48:44 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 09:48:44 -0500 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <45E97744.80304@glezos.com> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0703020828w3524de6ey7b5ab521dd4f15f2@mail.gmail.com> <45E97744.80304@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1172933324.21116.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-03-03 at 13:25 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H John Babich ??????: > > On 3/1/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > > > >> Here is the one I built this morning using htmldoc, as per Dimitris > >> suggestion: > > I uploaded a quick PDF I created with no attempt to beautify it. I took > > your no-chunks HTML and just printed it using cups-PDF. I didn't see > > any graphics in your web page, except for admonitions icons, so you > > won't see any in the doc. > > So we now have two ways to create PDFs. One is `htmldoc` and the other is > `cups-PDF`. There are others that are less hacky that I haven't seen yet on the list -- for example, XSLT to convert DocBook to RML and then using ReportLab (python-reportlab package) to convert to PDF. The results are much cleaner, and still allow very customizable styling. To do this properly, someone would have to actually write the XSLT in question, which is probably not a simple task of a few hours. I am a bit dismayed at the fact that there seem to be gazillions of ways to produce PDFs, but no one has invested time in getting DocBook to use them. Apparently "laziness" trumps "hubris" in this case.? I'd bet this project warrants a GSoC pitch, since it would benefit pretty much the entire FOSS community and not just Fedora. = = = ? e.g. http://www.netropolis.org/hash/perl/virtue.html -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070303/ee4413fb/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Sat Mar 3 17:42:46 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 09:42:46 -0800 Subject: PDF format guides In-Reply-To: <1172933324.21116.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45E685CA.4060304@fedoraproject.org> <45E6CDC2.70504@glezos.com> <1172763049.4651.420.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E708E2.7010105@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0703010946h5823fe5fq23273120f89dc5b5@mail.gmail.com> <1172776188.4651.462.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0703020828w3524de6ey7b5ab521dd4f15f2@mail.gmail.com> <45E97744.80304@glezos.com> <1172933324.21116.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1172943766.2865.100.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-03-03 at 09:48 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I am a bit dismayed at the fact that there seem to be gazillions of ways > to produce PDFs, but no one has invested time in getting DocBook to use > them. Apparently "laziness" trumps "hubris" in this case.? I'd bet > this project warrants a GSoC pitch, since it would benefit pretty much > the entire FOSS community and not just Fedora. +1 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties#DocBook2PDF I've received two contacts regarding our man page bounty on there for GSoC and similar SoC projects. Seems like a good idea to put our request out front. /me files separate thought on getting some early exposure value by hyping Fedora GSoC-worthy projects *immediately* -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070303/67c87d05/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Sat Mar 3 17:49:31 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 09:49:31 -0800 Subject: pump up the mailing list Message-ID: <1172944171.2865.104.camel@erato.phig.org> $SUBJECT is an idiom for, "Make bigger, better, faster, and more popular." Just a reminder to those of us who do lots of stuff together on IRC to at least send a note on discussion outcomes back to the list. Thus: 09:47 < quaid> mailing-list-over-IRC++ 09:47 < quaid> at least, we should make an effort to turn our discussions into short notes to the list, "We just discussed Foo on IRC and ..." 09:47 < quaid> has the effect of giving us a common place to keep notes (the list) and hopefully attract more people here :) cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070303/1ef85d44/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Sat Mar 3 18:02:05 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 10:02:05 -0800 Subject: agenda for 06-Mar-2007 FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <1172867775.14117.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1172644131.4651.216.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E86FB3.8070207@skynet.be> <1172867775.14117.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1172944809.2865.109.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 15:36 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Is there no one interested in a weekend meeting? (I know, we all need > lives.) I would be OK with an early Saturday (such as 1600 UTC), perhaps. Unfortunately, I think that is in the middle of John's workday. I swear, there *is* a day _and_ a time we can all meet. It need only be 30 minutes, especially if we ... > 2. Unselfish reason: This project has really begun to do a LOT of work > on IRC and not on the mailing list. The number of people on IRC is > *FAR* fewer than the number of people on the mailing list, and I worry > that our opportunities for public collaboration are being stifled in > that regard. We have a lot of lurkers who might be drawn in by the > right conversation or idea. The 3-hour meeting idea might contribute to > this, but I'm not sure. If I'm retreading old ground or reversing > myself, mea culpa, I am legion. more-list-less-meeting++ We need to take the action of following Bob's advise this time around and do more work on list. Being able to collaborate asynchronously is key to our success. So, let's continue this search for a 30 minute window we can all do. How early can we go? How late? What days? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070303/8b7fd105/attachment.sig> From couf at skynet.be Sat Mar 3 18:13:26 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 19:13:26 +0100 Subject: agenda for 06-Mar-2007 FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <1172944809.2865.109.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172644131.4651.216.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E86FB3.8070207@skynet.be> <1172867775.14117.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172944809.2865.109.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45E9BAC6.9040006@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade schreef: > On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 15:36 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> Is there no one interested in a weekend meeting? (I know, we all need >> lives.) > > I would be OK with an early Saturday (such as 1600 UTC), perhaps. > Unfortunately, I think that is in the middle of John's workday. Likewise, I'm OK with weekend meetings, if it's not gonna take too long. 1600 UTC is fine for me, but yeah John might have a work-problem. > I swear, there *is* a day _and_ a time we can all meet. It need only be > 30 minutes, especially if we ... > >> 2. Unselfish reason: This project has really begun to do a LOT of work >> on IRC and not on the mailing list. The number of people on IRC is >> *FAR* fewer than the number of people on the mailing list, and I worry >> that our opportunities for public collaboration are being stifled in >> that regard. We have a lot of lurkers who might be drawn in by the >> right conversation or idea. The 3-hour meeting idea might contribute to >> this, but I'm not sure. If I'm retreading old ground or reversing >> myself, mea culpa, I am legion. > > more-list-less-meeting++ > > We need to take the action of following Bob's advise this time around > and do more work on list. Being able to collaborate asynchronously is > key to our success. > Total agreement > So, let's continue this search for a 30 minute window we can all do. > How early can we go? How late? What days? > Earliest for me is 0500 UTC, latest 22OO UTC. A slight preference for weekends (lost of possible hours), weekdays at O5OO, or starting from 17OO UTC. > - Karsten > Bart - -- Bart <couf at fedoraproject.org> <couf at skynet.be> key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6brGrbZrKtk/D5MRAjyXAKCidl5XeMJ1LkpCZdy4BoApvbx13QCeLFZ9 TBjVrMgsT/QFaoJBiyIxzY0= =ClKl -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From couf at skynet.be Sat Mar 3 18:19:50 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 19:19:50 +0100 Subject: DocsProject wikispace reorganization [RFC] In-Reply-To: <1172866905.14117.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45E873C5.90700@skynet.be> <1172866905.14117.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <45E9BC46.1030004@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul W. Frields schreef: > On Fri, 2007-03-02 at 19:58 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: [snip] >> >> So here's a reorganization proposal: >> >> DocsProject/ >> |-- Join >> | |--Writer >> | |--Editor >> | \--Translator >> |-- Goals / Mission >> |-- Schedule >> | \--some pages with details (e.g. specific schedules on DUG, IG) >> |-- Tasks (considering all FDP related tasks and processes) >> | |--Guides >> | |--Relnotes >> | |--Browser splash page >> | |--Plone >> | |--Ideas-page >> | \--Release announcement (not sure if we should do this) >> |-- FDSCo (or steering committee) >> | |--Charter >> | |--Meeting minutes >> | |--Elections >> | |--Nominations >> | \--Task Schedule >> \-- Workflow >> |--Docbook (how to write + intro) >> |--CVS (usage) >> |--Wiki (how to write) >> |--Publishing (web, PDF?) >> \--Tools >> >> And some general ideas: >> a) Create a default template for all Docs-related pages on the wiki >> (breadcrumb, default header, ...) to create a common look-and-feel >> b) Move everything in /Docs/Drafts to DocsProject/Drafts so users know >> that everything in /Docs is published documentation. >> >> As I said, it's all just an idea / proposal. Comments? > > As an exercise in -- I don't know, hubris? ignorance? -- I'm going to > look at this list and make sugggestions, *completely blind* to the > actual content of the current wiki. Yeah, that's the actual reason of the exercise, find out what works best without looking into what we have now. > 1. Goals/Mission should be combined, cut down to a single concise > paragraph or list, and appear on the front page. +1 > > 2. The FDSCo/TaskSchedule stuff should be moved under the Schedule/ > namespace. Everyone can work on these tasks, not just FDSCo members, > and both the Publication Schedule and the DocTools Schedule should be > linked or transcluded on the main schedule page. True, this is the reason that I added some 'schedule-details' pages to the idea-tree. > > 3. The Workflow pages are a great asset and should relieve the > Documentation Guide of some of its content. I think Karsten was in > agreement with this point, since we worked on that some at FUDCon. Good idea. > > 4. The browser splash page now exists, and there's probably no need to > document it on the wiki -- we can use Bugzilla for RFE's or to track > problems and to-do's. Bugzilla could be workable, but it's easier for externals to the project to add ideas to a wiki-page, imo. Dimitris what's your point of view about this? > > 5. There should perhaps be a Join item for Toolchain Builder. > > That's all I have. This is a great goal and I would love to see people > start cobbling on this stuff ASAP once we have buy-in from enough > contributors. Bart, I think you just elected yourself point-man! :-) Don't shoot the point-man! Sure, I'm willing to spearhead the effort :-) Bart - -- Bart <couf at fedoraproject.org> <couf at skynet.be> key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6bxGrbZrKtk/D5MRAt4QAJ9ddZB5D4mN86o6gaUtlSAs/V6Q6QCdES41 I7z8qMgPCLZYReDKuXUt4G4= =Zxia -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From couf at skynet.be Sat Mar 3 18:25:44 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 19:25:44 +0100 Subject: DocsProject wikispace reorganization [RFC] In-Reply-To: <45E88B05.8050404@glezos.com> References: <45E873C5.90700@skynet.be> <45E88B05.8050404@glezos.com> Message-ID: <45E9BDA8.9030401@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Dimitris Glezos schreef: > O/H Bart Couvreur ??????: [snip] >> >> So here's a reorganization proposal: >> >> DocsProject/ >> |-- Join >> | |--Writer >> | |--Editor >> | \--Translator >> |-- Goals / Mission >> |-- Schedule >> | \--some pages with details (e.g. specific schedules on DUG, IG) >> |-- Tasks (considering all FDP related tasks and processes) >> | |--Guides >> | |--Relnotes >> | |--Browser splash page >> | |--Plone >> | |--Ideas-page >> | \--Release announcement (not sure if we should do this) >> |-- FDSCo (or steering committee) >> | |--Charter >> | |--Meeting minutes >> | |--Elections >> | |--Nominations >> | \--Task Schedule >> \-- Workflow >> |--Docbook (how to write + intro) >> |--CVS (usage) >> |--Wiki (how to write) >> |--Publishing (web, PDF?) >> \--Tools >> > > Seems like a good idea. Would require some work though: pages renamed and > `#REDIRECT` statements put in the old ones, making sure links are changed etc. Is there a way to see which pages links to a certain page? I remember seeing such a function, but can't find it anymore. > Take a look at the FUDCon Boston brainstorming [1] page and the recent Artwork > Team page redesign process [2]. > > [1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Websites/MainPageRedesign2007 > [2]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ArtTeam > > Some other suggestions: > > * Add "Various" for misc stuff Right > * Rename Schedule to Roadmap? Well, I would use the Schedule place to keep everything that has to happen (tasks, deadlines etc), not sure if that's a real roadmap + everywhere else on the wiki the term Schedule is used (consistency). > * Add a "Requests" page, as in RFE/bugs. Or a link to the Bugzilla component? > >> And some general ideas: >> a) Create a default template for all Docs-related pages on the wiki >> (breadcrumb, default header, ...) to create a common look-and-feel > > This is something me and Mairin were talking about: introduce page templates in > various parts of the wiki. It would be a good idea to Great, IMO it helps a lot in keeping the projects pages consistent in style and format. > >> b) Move everything in /Docs/Drafts to DocsProject/Drafts so users know >> that everything in /Docs is published documentation. > > Not sure this is worth the effort. :/ Heh, yeah, on second thought it would be a very very big thing to move, scratch one idea :-) > > -d > > > - -- Bart <couf at fedoraproject.org> <couf at skynet.be> key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF6b2orbZrKtk/D5MRAs72AKCBDjiKEsfUgVU1bsecoiVzjq/ZHQCfWATB xJkCwsA46cNClyOziX8fOHQ= =R6Wc -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 22:16:46 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2007 17:16:46 -0500 Subject: agenda for 06-Mar-2007 FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <45E9BAC6.9040006@skynet.be> References: <1172644131.4651.216.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E86FB3.8070207@skynet.be> <1172867775.14117.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172944809.2865.109.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E9BAC6.9040006@skynet.be> Message-ID: <1172960206.5412.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-03-03 at 19:13 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: > > So, let's continue this search for a 30 minute window we can all do. > > How early can we go? How late? What days? > > > Earliest for me is 0500 UTC, latest 22OO UTC. A slight preference for > weekends (lost of possible hours), weekdays at O5OO, or starting from > 17OO UTC. /me has deja vu :-) Weekdays, 2200 - 0400 UTC I can usually do. (Sorry, long workday, little time windows.) Weekends, just about any time, say: 1300 - 0300 UTC. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070303/9e457981/attachment.sig> From paulo.banon at googlemail.com Fri Mar 2 08:52:45 2007 From: paulo.banon at googlemail.com (Paulo Santos) Date: Fri, 2 Mar 2007 09:52:45 +0100 Subject: h1 in Wiki In-Reply-To: <1172824279.4651.516.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172824279.4651.516.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <7a41c4bc0703020052jc3599fat811262f195a97dc2@mail.gmail.com> Karsten, If i'm not mistaken the = h1 = or even ==h2 == didn't work well in the previous version of Moin. Right now that should be fixed, so yes, i think you guys should follow the guidelines already defined by FDP. Paulo On 3/2/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > > I've lost track of what we want to appear as a primary header (h1) on a > Wiki page. That is, we sometimes use this: > > {{{#!html > <h2>Page Title</h2>}}} > > Is this strictly for visual affect? > > In the case of the Docs/Beats, I think we need to stick to a strict > usage of each page having only one h1 and all other content being a sub: > > = Page Title = > > == A Section == > > === Sub-section A === > > === Sub-section B === > > == Another Section == > > According to this page: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki > > ... that is our method. > > Seem reasonable? > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070302/1653539b/attachment.htm> From kwade at redhat.com Sun Mar 4 20:42:23 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 12:42:23 -0800 Subject: conduct of meetings and voting in FDSCo Message-ID: <1173040944.2865.143.camel@erato.phig.org> We just had a proposal/idea on #fedora-docs: * The mailing list is for making decisions * IRC meetings are for discussions, working-on-stuff * FDSCo can call a vote/consensus check in IRC if 4+ members are present: - If only 4 members, the vote must be unanimous - If not unanimous, vote must be put-off for a majority presence - If only 5 members, the vote must be 4+ - If fewer than 4 members, send a message to the list - If urgency/emergency situation, the members present on IRC make the best decision they can, alert the list, and hope for the best - This kind of thing happens around release time when release engineering needs a decision and we have five minutes to decide or lose our chance. :) * We have the ability to call for a consensus check or vote on IRC even when a formal meeting is not being held: - Notice must be sent to the list so members not present can have a say - Decisions made this way can change after more list discussion - The email you are reading as self-referential example of this The idea is to make it a pleasure to attend meetings but not mandatory. The pleasure is that, for the most part, the FDSCo participants have preferred a "working meeting"-style instead of a "decision making"-style of meeting. Working can mean "active discussion and problem solving", which can lead to decisions that are sent to the list (like this message!) Because decisions are not the focus of an IRC meeting, it means that FDSCo can have meetings at dual-times to cover all members timezones, and there is not an obligation to attend. Discussion and decision is pushed to IRC. But there is room to make decisions in a fair manner. Then our fixed meeting time/window becomes a place to: 1. Check/update status 2. Regroup and reissue the week's agenda The outcome of this fixed meeting is: 1. A log to IRC 2. An updated of scheduled tasks 3. A new thread for the week that details the new/updated agenda under discussion/decision Thoughts? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070304/abb2d539/attachment.sig> From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Mar 3 18:36:28 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2007 21:36:28 +0300 Subject: agenda for 06-Mar-2007 FDSCo meeting In-Reply-To: <1172944809.2865.109.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1172644131.4651.216.camel@erato.phig.org> <45E86FB3.8070207@skynet.be> <1172867775.14117.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1172944809.2865.109.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0703031036w33dc9b67ke7bde25c270f8147@mail.gmail.com> On 3/3/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > I would be OK with an early Saturday (such as 1600 UTC), perhaps. > Unfortunately, I think that is in the middle of John's workday. > > I swear, there *is* a day _and_ a time we can all meet. It need only be > 30 minutes, especially if we ... 1600 UTC = 1900 UTC+3 = 7 PM local time for me on Saturday is fine. :-) John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 05:16:44 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 08:16:44 +0300 Subject: conduct of meetings and voting in FDSCo In-Reply-To: <1173040944.2865.143.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1173040944.2865.143.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0703042116lece6aa8yf4504553312cc06a@mail.gmail.com> On 3/4/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: < snip > > Because decisions are not the focus of an IRC meeting, it means that > FDSCo can have meetings at dual-times to cover all members timezones, > and there is not an obligation to attend. Discussion and decision is > pushed to IRC. But there is room to make decisions in a fair manner. > > Then our fixed meeting time/window becomes a place to: > > 1. Check/update status > 2. Regroup and reissue the week's agenda > > The outcome of this fixed meeting is: > > 1. A log to IRC > 2. An updated of scheduled tasks > 3. A new thread for the week that details the new/updated agenda under > discussion/decision > > Thoughts? As long as the IRC meetings can alternate and cover all the participants, I'm in agreement. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From kwade at redhat.com Mon Mar 5 17:15:56 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 09:15:56 -0800 Subject: conduct of meetings and voting in FDSCo In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0703042116lece6aa8yf4504553312cc06a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1173040944.2865.143.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0703042116lece6aa8yf4504553312cc06a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1173114956.2865.247.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-03-05 at 08:16 +0300, John Babich wrote: > As long as the IRC meetings can alternate and cover all the participants, > I'm in agreement. I think the key is to choose one of these formats: A. Three-hour meeting that goes across enough timeslots to get everyone (still looking for a good cross) B. Two meetings times that alternate (every other week), e.g. Sunday/Monday (first losses Bob, second losses Paul) We just need glezos to weigh in on this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes ... and we can pick a time to start with. When mcgiwer is back in the fold, we can revisit. :) If the meetings are more optional, that is, if we get business done on-list, then we can be flexible about when until we get the right mix. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070305/d60d3a85/attachment.sig> From dimitris at glezos.com Tue Mar 6 01:50:58 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 01:50:58 +0000 Subject: conduct of meetings and voting in FDSCo In-Reply-To: <1173114956.2865.247.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1173040944.2865.143.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0703042116lece6aa8yf4504553312cc06a@mail.gmail.com> <1173114956.2865.247.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45ECC902.30402@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > B. Two meetings times that alternate (every other week), e.g. > Sunday/Monday (first losses Bob, second losses Paul) > > We just need glezos to weigh in on this page: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes OK, I weighted in on the page (thankfully, not too much). There are no free slots on it, so it will probably be alternate times. If someone of us *could* be a bit more flexible, now is probably a good time to re-visit the page and re-think his availability. :) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Tue Mar 6 21:11:05 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 13:11:05 -0800 Subject: no FDSCo meeting today, Sunday first new meeting time Message-ID: <1173215465.2865.326.camel@erato.phig.org> We had a short discussion in #fedora-docs and decided that we could finally retire the Tuesday meeting time. So, 0100 UTC is no longer. :) We're going to meet on Sunday this week 11-Mar-2007 at 1600 UTC on #fedora-docs. In that meeting we'll ratify (if we need to) that our next meeting will be the first of an alternating time. We'll set a time for Mondays based on what we all blocked. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070306/1223a49c/attachment.sig> From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Mar 7 07:40:50 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2007 10:40:50 +0300 Subject: no FDSCo meeting today, Sunday first new meeting time In-Reply-To: <1173215465.2865.326.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1173215465.2865.326.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0703062340l3e4216c5gfcd9b406671cc98c@mail.gmail.com> On 3/7/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > We had a short discussion in #fedora-docs and decided that we could > finally retire the Tuesday meeting time. So, 0100 UTC is no longer. :) > > We're going to meet on Sunday this week 11-Mar-2007 at 1600 UTC on > #fedora-docs. In that meeting we'll ratify (if we need to) that our > next meeting will be the first of an alternating time. We'll set a time > for Mondays based on what we all blocked. > +1 Thanks fine for me. John Babich From stickster at gmail.com Wed Mar 7 14:34:33 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:34:33 -0500 Subject: no FDSCo meeting today, Sunday first new meeting time In-Reply-To: <1173215465.2865.326.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1173215465.2865.326.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1173278073.4488.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-03-06 at 13:11 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > We had a short discussion in #fedora-docs and decided that we could > finally retire the Tuesday meeting time. So, 0100 UTC is no longer. :) > > We're going to meet on Sunday this week 11-Mar-2007 at 1600 UTC on > #fedora-docs. In that meeting we'll ratify (if we need to) that our > next meeting will be the first of an alternating time. We'll set a time > for Mondays based on what we all blocked. Yup, that should work for me too. Talk to you guys then (if not sooner). -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070307/302183c7/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Wed Mar 7 17:26:09 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:26:09 -0800 Subject: Self Introduction Ben Williams In-Reply-To: <55928.198.82.185.72.1172365771.squirrel@webmail.fedoraunity.org> References: <55928.198.82.185.72.1172365771.squirrel@webmail.fedoraunity.org> Message-ID: <1173288369.21816.26.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-02-25 at 01:09 +0000, jbwillia at fedoraunity.org wrote: > * Ben Williams Hi, Ben, a belated welcome. Are you doing fine looking around yourself, finding something interesting? Or do you want some pointers or direction on where is good to start? Pardon me if I've asked or answered this for you already, been a busy month. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070307/c05af2e0/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Wed Mar 7 17:38:55 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:38:55 -0800 Subject: Comments on DUG update In-Reply-To: <eq4utu$vl7$2@sea.gmane.org> References: <9d2c731f0702040048v5e839d18we1b34bda51f27da0@mail.gmail.com> <eq4utu$vl7$2@sea.gmane.org> Message-ID: <1173289135.21816.34.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-02-04 at 15:43 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > This is a nice document, IMHO, > though with a rather odd selection of topics. > Maybe more will be added later? Sure. We went with what we had ready in time for FC6. Do you have any specific topics you think should be covered? Time is running for F7. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070307/062972f1/attachment.sig> From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Mar 7 22:37:21 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 22:37:21 +0000 Subject: Docs translations Message-ID: <45EF3EA1.50203@glezos.com> Hey all. Today we had a lengthy discussion on IRC about the way we should handle translations in Fedora. The plan is basically to move applications (and their PO files) that are being developed on elvis (a RH server) over to 'cvs.fedoraproject.org'. It seems that this will not happen before the F7 release. We have already created a CVS group 'cvsl10n' and all translators will be asked to open Fedora accounts and will be added to this group. As a Docs project, we have the choice *not* to wait for F7 and migrate the translation process right away. The 'fp.org -> i18n -> fp' process for PO files is tedious for quaid and stickster. This means that translations for Docs will happen in the Docs repository, which is much easier for translators (as long as they have a Fedora account). If there is no objection, we can apply the 'cvsl10n' ACLs on the po directory right away and test the translator's access. The L10n team will try its best to make sure we get as much translations as possible, even if our po files will be hosted on a different SCM than the rest of the Fedora apps. Comments? -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Mar 7 22:48:47 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:48:47 -0600 Subject: Docs translations In-Reply-To: <45EF3EA1.50203@glezos.com> References: <45EF3EA1.50203@glezos.com> Message-ID: <45EF414F.8080609@redhat.com> Dimitris Glezos wrote: > Hey all. > > Today we had a lengthy discussion on IRC about the way we should handle > translations in Fedora. The plan is basically to move applications (and their PO > files) that are being developed on elvis (a RH server) over to > 'cvs.fedoraproject.org'. It seems that this will not happen before the F7 release. > > We have already created a CVS group 'cvsl10n' and all translators will be asked > to open Fedora accounts and will be added to this group. > > As a Docs project, we have the choice *not* to wait for F7 and migrate the > translation process right away. The 'fp.org -> i18n -> fp' process for PO files > is tedious for quaid and stickster. This means that translations for Docs will > happen in the Docs repository, which is much easier for translators (as long as > they have a Fedora account). > > If there is no objection, we can apply the 'cvsl10n' ACLs on the po directory > right away and test the translator's access. The L10n team will try its best to > make sure we get as much translations as possible, even if our po files will be > hosted on a different SCM than the rest of the Fedora apps. > > I can get started on this soon, are there any objections / questions? -Mike From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 8 00:52:50 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2007 16:52:50 -0800 Subject: Docs translations In-Reply-To: <45EF3EA1.50203@glezos.com> References: <45EF3EA1.50203@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1173315170.3935.42.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-03-07 at 22:37 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > Hey all. > > Today we had a lengthy discussion on IRC about the way we should handle > translations in Fedora. The plan is basically to move applications (and their PO > files) that are being developed on elvis (a RH server) over to > 'cvs.fedoraproject.org'. It seems that this will not happen before the F7 release. > > We have already created a CVS group 'cvsl10n' and all translators will be asked > to open Fedora accounts and will be added to this group. > > As a Docs project, we have the choice *not* to wait for F7 and migrate the > translation process right away. The 'fp.org -> i18n -> fp' process for PO files > is tedious for quaid and stickster. This means that translations for Docs will > happen in the Docs repository, which is much easier for translators (as long as > they have a Fedora account). > > If there is no objection, we can apply the 'cvsl10n' ACLs on the po directory > right away and test the translator's access. The L10n team will try its best to > make sure we get as much translations as possible, even if our po files will be > hosted on a different SCM than the rest of the Fedora apps. > > Comments? +1 Many translators have made the move to get a Fedora account already. We risk losing a few people who might have translated through elvis/i18n CVS, but IMO it is a low risk. We also may gain some translators because of the publicity or the move-toward-fedoraproject.org (which matters to some people.) We have agreement to completely migrate off elvis when F7 is out, so the translators are doing themselves a favor to get a FAS account now. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070307/e7df1bac/attachment.sig> From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Thu Mar 8 14:09:13 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 15:09:13 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction / Fedora Translation Project Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> *Self-Introduction: John Charron - Fedora Translation Project* John Charron (fcrhuser) Montpellier, France *Mother tongues*: English and French *Other language*: Italian *Source/Target Languages*: French -> English English -> French Italian -> French French -> Italian* *Although Italian is not my mother tongue, I would like to do *some* French to Italian translation. Having a good number of contacts, the final version of any such translations will be proofread and corrected by a person whose mother tongue is Italian before being submitted. *University Studies* -Doctor of Music, Juilliard School, New York (1994) -Master of Applied Linguistics, University of Montpellier, France (2002) -Master of Technical Translation (English-French-Italian), University of Montpellier, France (2006) Hi all! Linux and Fedora are relatively new to me and so is ICT. As translator, I don't yet know what aspects of the Fedora Project would interest me most. Although the translation of material related to my areas of specialization interests me (programs for amateur and professional musicians, electronic dictionaries, translation software, applications for foreign language training, etc.), I would also be interested in translating more technical documentation on various ICT-related topics. I will be studying computer science at the local university here in Montpellier from September 2007 and would like my work for the project to be both a contribution and a learning experience. In addition to having an excellent working knowledge of general applications (word processing, spreadsheets, multimedia applications, Internet, etc.) and typing from 50 to 60 words per minute, I am learning more and more about Linux, scripts, UNIX commands and some basic programming in C++, and am really enjoying it all. I am looking forward to participating in the Fedora Translation Project and eager to becoming more involved in the Fedora community! John P.S. - I need cvsdocs membership approval (see below) and may need some help getting started as well. Many thanks. * * * [linux at localhost ~]$ gpg --fingerprint E40B581F pub 1024D/E40B581F 2007-02-19 Key fingerprint = E313 ED96 E8DD 2D7A C69D 07E0 D4FA 455C E40B 581F uid John Charron (Linux Man) <fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com> sub 2048g/20F0F8C5 2007-02-19 * * * from accounts at fedoraproject.org <accounts at fedoraproject.org> to cvsdocs-sponsors at fedoraproject.org cc fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com date 25-Feb-2007 01:42 subject Fedora cvsdocs membership approval needed for fcrhuser Fedora user fcrhuser, aka John Charron <fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com> has requested membership in the cvsdocs group - that membership needs approval. Please go to https://admin.fedora.redhat.com/accounts/groupbox.cgi?_editme=Edit&name=cvsdocsto take action. -- The Fedora Account System * * * -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070308/79980be3/attachment.htm> From ncorrare at fedoraproject.org Thu Mar 8 14:11:21 2007 From: ncorrare at fedoraproject.org (Nicolas Antonio Corrarello) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 11:11:21 -0300 Subject: Docs translations In-Reply-To: <45EF3EA1.50203@glezos.com> References: <45EF3EA1.50203@glezos.com> Message-ID: <45F01989.5040904@fedoraproject.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 OK WITH ME - -- - - -- Nicolas A. Corrarello, RHCE c: +54 (911) 6398-5974 Fedora Ambassador Argentina e: ncorrare at fedoraproject.org GPG Key: DFC893EE h: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicolasCorrarello GPG Fingerprint: 5C93 42DA 98E1 4EEF B24B 7F8C E145 B2F9 DFC8 93EE Import my key: $ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-key 0xDFC893EE Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit San Diego | May 9-11, 2007 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/2007 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF8BmJ4UWy+d/Ik+4RAo+ZAJ9ZSG0KlHf+EvJGpjwkSuYhezdV4wCgxjQ4 HFUQqB2C34kjugNkuck3p6E= =6GGR -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Mar 8 20:31:13 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 23:31:13 +0300 Subject: Self-Introduction / Fedora Translation Project In-Reply-To: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0703081231t54fba8feyebf9d7976faacb02@mail.gmail.com> John: Welcome to the Fedora Docs Project! John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From kwade at redhat.com Fri Mar 9 22:44:17 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 14:44:17 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction / Fedora Translation Project In-Reply-To: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1173480257.3935.290.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 15:09 +0100, John Charron wrote: > Self-Introduction: John Charron - Fedora Translation Project Hola John, > Linux and Fedora are relatively new to me and so is ICT. As > translator, I don't yet know what aspects of the Fedora Project would > interest me most. Although the translation of material related to my > areas of specialization interests me (programs for amateur and > professional musicians, electronic dictionaries, translation software, > applications for foreign language training, etc.), I would also be > interested in translating more technical documentation on various > ICT-related topics. I will be studying computer science at the local > university here in Montpellier from September 2007 and would like my > work for the project to be both a contribution and a learning > experience. Excellent; you are starting in a good place within Fedora. From here you'll be able to see into many places and decide what else is interesting to you. You may want to look into fedora-music-list; it's been mainly technical about e.g. Planet CCRMA. One great thing about free software is how many people have talents and interests in other areas. Always dynamic people doing interesting things! > I am looking forward to participating in the Fedora Translation > Project and eager to becoming more involved in the Fedora community! Welcome! > P.S. - I need cvsdocs membership approval (see below) and may need > some help getting started as well. Many thanks. Done. Thanks for the reminder, it sometimes takes us a while to notice people's requests. You'll also want to request access to the new 'cvsl10n' group; we are currently working on bringing documentation translation back into the Fedora infrastructure. Keep your eyes open here and on fedora-trans-list for more details. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070309/b18aec89/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sat Mar 10 00:51:29 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 19:51:29 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction / Fedora Translation Project In-Reply-To: <1173480257.3935.290.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> <1173480257.3935.290.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1173487889.11733.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 14:44 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 15:09 +0100, John Charron wrote: > > Self-Introduction: John Charron - Fedora Translation Project > > Hola John, > > > Linux and Fedora are relatively new to me and so is ICT. As > > translator, I don't yet know what aspects of the Fedora Project would > > interest me most. Although the translation of material related to my > > areas of specialization interests me (programs for amateur and > > professional musicians, electronic dictionaries, translation software, > > applications for foreign language training, etc.), I would also be > > interested in translating more technical documentation on various > > ICT-related topics. I will be studying computer science at the local > > university here in Montpellier from September 2007 and would like my > > work for the project to be both a contribution and a learning > > experience. > > Excellent; you are starting in a good place within Fedora. From here > you'll be able to see into many places and decide what else is > interesting to you. > > You may want to look into fedora-music-list; it's been mainly technical > about e.g. Planet CCRMA. One great thing about free software is how > many people have talents and interests in other areas. Always dynamic > people doing interesting things! Yes, and make sure you say howdy to Dimitris Glezos (IRC nick "glezos"), who is involved with us, the Translation (L10N) project and Infrastructure. He may have some tips, advice, or just a good word of the day. :-) > > I am looking forward to participating in the Fedora Translation > > Project and eager to becoming more involved in the Fedora community! > > Welcome! Ditto! > > P.S. - I need cvsdocs membership approval (see below) and may need > > some help getting started as well. Many thanks. > > Done. Thanks for the reminder, it sometimes takes us a while to notice > people's requests. > > You'll also want to request access to the new 'cvsl10n' group; we are > currently working on bringing documentation translation back into the > Fedora infrastructure. Keep your eyes open here and on > fedora-trans-list for more details. And feel free to ask questions here or in IRC (irc.freenode.net, #fedora-docs). Someone is almost always around to help. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070309/73a9a24b/attachment.sig> From samfw at redhat.com Sat Mar 10 15:49:04 2007 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:49:04 -0500 Subject: bullets/lists not rendering right on wiki? Message-ID: <20070310154904.GJ3544@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> Hi, I'm noticing that the syntax for bullets and numbered lists seems no longer to be working as expected. I wonder if this is due to the template change? For example, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraXenQuickstartFC6 Under the "system requirements" section, for instance, has the right syntax in the raw text: * bullet * syntax * as such But it renders as an indent with extra spaces between each line. Is this a known issue? Thanks, Sam -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA From samfw at redhat.com Sat Mar 10 16:02:39 2007 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:02:39 -0500 Subject: bullets/lists not rendering right on wiki? In-Reply-To: <20070310154904.GJ3544@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> References: <20070310154904.GJ3544@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20070310160239.GK3544@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> On 03/10/07 10:49 -0500 Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > Hi, > > I'm noticing that the syntax for bullets and numbered lists seems no longer to > be working as expected. I wonder if this is due to the template change? > > For example, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraXenQuickstartFC6 > > Under the "system requirements" section, for instance, has the right syntax in > the raw text: > > * bullet > * syntax > * as such > > But it renders as an indent with extra spaces between each line. Is this a > known issue? OK this looks like a bug with the Kind of Blue template.... Sam > > Thanks, > Sam > -- > Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services > Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Sam Folk-Williams, RHCE Red Hat Global Support Services Phone: 919/754-4558 GPG ID: 1B0D46BA From stickster at gmail.com Sat Mar 10 16:22:25 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:22:25 -0500 Subject: CVS reorg Message-ID: <1173543745.11733.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> I am planning to do a little housecleaning in CVS, but particularly the "docs-common" module. We have a number of areas in that module in which rendered content is saved along with source data, when this content could be produced on an "as-needed" basis by the user. Here are some examples: 1. Eliminate PNG and EPS files from docs-common/images/ and docs-common/stylesheet-images/, instead saving only SVG (XML) and using PO and librsvg2 to generate new PNG files. Include a single fallback watermark so that users do not need to install librsvg2 (and drag in GNOME) to test document builds. + Saves >800 KB of d/l bandwidth for users. + po/ directory should pick up ACL mask for translators. 2. Eliminate repetitive XML files from docs-common/common/ and docs-common/common/entities/, again using PO instead, and adapting build tools to use PO on-the-fly rather than requiring users to download unused files. + Saves >600-700 KB of d/l bandwidth for users. + No additional tools required other than what is already used (xml2po) 3. I also see there is some chaff in the docs-common/stylesheet-images/, particularly a "titlepage.png" and "titlepage.eps" that were probably there for testing the press release stuff back in the day. I will probably remove those to the attic; SVG gladly accepted to replace them if desired. + Saves 1 MB (!) of d/l bandwidth for users. Although a simple "du -sk" command shows that docs-common is over 6.5 MB in size, that's a bit misleading, as we're seeing *disk block usage*. That number reflects 50-75% overhead for many of the small (< 4KB) files in use. "du -sbc" shows a much more reasonable ~3.3 MB. The savings above should cut that down to just several hundred KB. Discussion? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070310/fed7cf8b/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Sat Mar 10 16:46:26 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 08:46:26 -0800 Subject: bullets/lists not rendering right on wiki? In-Reply-To: <20070310160239.GK3544@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> References: <20070310154904.GJ3544@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> <20070310160239.GK3544@unplugged.rdu.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1173545186.3935.333.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 11:02 -0500, Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > On 03/10/07 10:49 -0500 Sam Folk-Williams wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm noticing that the syntax for bullets and numbered lists seems no longer to > > be working as expected. I wonder if this is due to the template change? > > > > For example, see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraXenQuickstartFC6 > > > > Under the "system requirements" section, for instance, has the right syntax in > > the raw text: > > > > * bullet > > * syntax > > * as such > > > > But it renders as an indent with extra spaces between each line. Is this a > > known issue? > OK this looks like a bug with the Kind of Blue template.... It looks as if the CSS is calling a PNG that is not appearing for some reason: I see two different styles when looking at the CSS with the Web Developer extension, but only (ii) appears in http://fedoraproject.org/wikidata/kindofblue/css/screen.css: (i) *|#page *|ul *|li (line 686) { list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; list-style-position: outside; padding-left: 1.7em; margin-bottom: 1.3em; } (ii) #page ul li { list-style: none; background: transparent url('http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiGraphics?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=blue-bullet.png') circle; padding-left: 1.7em; margin-bottom: 1.3em; } So, the additional line space is the margin-bottom: 1.3em. The indent is the left padding. But there is supposed to be an image (and you can reach it with that URL) but it doesn't show up on the page. Maybe we should move the bullet to wikidata/kindofblue/images? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070310/f3a9c9d7/attachment.sig> From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Sat Mar 10 16:38:52 2007 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:38:52 -0600 Subject: FDSCo agenda for 11-Mar-2007 Item 0 Meeting time Message-ID: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> Meeting times have been discussed in IRC and on the list. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes shows the results of our survey to find a time that will work for us all. -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Sat Mar 10 17:57:13 2007 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:57:13 -0600 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 1 Project Lead Message-ID: <45F2F179.9020400@fedoralinks.org> With our new status as the first fully elected FDSCo we need to choose a Project Lead. We should also discuss what our options are to ensure a smooth transition in this time of change. 1. Elect new chair/project leader [MEETING DECISION] 1.1 Decide if chair is 12 mon. or 6 mon. position? [MEETING DECISION] -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Sat Mar 10 17:57:56 2007 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 11:57:56 -0600 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 2 Meeting Location Message-ID: <45F2F1A4.6040600@fedoralinks.org> It has been suggested that we hold our meetings in #fedora-meeting. As a group we should decide this for ourselves and choose the venue that works best for our project. -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Sat Mar 10 18:01:59 2007 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 12:01:59 -0600 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 3 FDP Schedule Message-ID: <45F2F297.7080809@fedoralinks.org> We have a schedule that is dependent on others as release time approaches we keep this schedule updated as the release date shifts. The schedule can be found at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule We will need to look at the current schedule discuss the time line we have before us and also find a volunteer to manage changes to the schedule as target dates change. -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From stickster at gmail.com Sat Mar 10 18:23:04 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:23:04 -0500 Subject: FDSCo agenda for 11-Mar-2007 Item 0 Meeting time In-Reply-To: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> References: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <1173550984.11733.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 10:38 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > Meeting times have been discussed in IRC and on the list. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes shows the results > of our survey to find a time that will work for us all. > > -- > Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen > gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 > Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject Right, looks like: Weekend - tomorrow (Sun) at either 1600 UTC (1100 EST/0800 PST) or 1700 UTC (1200 EST/0900 PST) Weekday - Mon/Tue/Wed at 1800 UTC (1300 EST/1000 PST) or 1900 UTC (1400 EST/1100 PST) Either we pick one and disenfranchise someone, or go with two. I would say if we do the latter, do Sunday and Wednesday to keep momentum up. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070310/074c2127/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sat Mar 10 18:23:53 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:23:53 -0500 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 2 Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <45F2F1A4.6040600@fedoralinks.org> References: <45F2F1A4.6040600@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <1173551033.11733.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 11:57 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > It has been suggested that we hold our meetings in #fedora-meeting. > > As a group we should decide this for ourselves and choose the venue that > works best for our project. For very long "working meetings" using #fedora-docs is the right answer. However, if we can reduce the scope of our meetings to actual business, I'm not opposed to meeting in #fedora-meeting for one or both weekly meetings. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070310/6ec34988/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sat Mar 10 18:26:06 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:26:06 -0500 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 3 FDP Schedule In-Reply-To: <45F2F297.7080809@fedoralinks.org> References: <45F2F297.7080809@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <1173551166.11733.51.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 12:01 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > We have a schedule that is dependent on others as release time > approaches we keep this schedule updated as the release date shifts. The > schedule can be found at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule > > We will need to look at the current schedule discuss the time line we > have before us and also find a volunteer to manage changes to the > schedule as target dates change. I did the schedule update for this time around, and got no comments on what I put up. The derivation of time was a tradeoff between what we previously used and making a little bit more wiggle room for the L10N team and eventual, unavoidable goofs. It's absolutely vital that we are keeping this schedule on our own daily calendars for tracking progress with e.g. IG, relnotes, etc. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070310/6d36fc67/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Sat Mar 10 18:40:11 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:40:11 -0800 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 2 Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <45F2F1A4.6040600@fedoralinks.org> References: <45F2F1A4.6040600@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <1173552011.3935.337.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 11:57 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > It has been suggested that we hold our meetings in #fedora-meeting. > > As a group we should decide this for ourselves and choose the venue that > works best for our project. Another option is to hold the formal meeting (discussions and decisions) on #fedora-meeting, and work in parallel in #fedora-docs. For example, tomorrow we're going to be making decisions on a few items. At the same time, Bob and I could be on #fedora-docs doing the weeding of Docs/Beats/ - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070310/4d1c84d1/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Sat Mar 10 18:46:09 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 10:46:09 -0800 Subject: FDSCo agenda for 11-Mar-2007 Item 0 Meeting time In-Reply-To: <1173550984.11733.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> <1173550984.11733.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1173552369.3935.343.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 13:23 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 10:38 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > > Meeting times have been discussed in IRC and on the list. > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes shows the results > > of our survey to find a time that will work for us all. > > > > -- > > Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen > > gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 > > Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > Right, looks like: > > Weekend - tomorrow (Sun) at either 1600 UTC (1100 EST/0800 PST) or 1700 > UTC (1200 EST/0900 PST) And in fact, that is when we are meeting tomorrow. :) > Weekday - Mon/Tue/Wed at 1800 UTC (1300 EST/1000 PST) or 1900 UTC (1400 > EST/1100 PST) I note that we have around 4 to 6 weeks until Bob is unavailable on weekends. So, we could use the weekend meeting time for a month and then add a weekday meeting time when we need to. One reason to do this is >1 of us are likely to have a scheduling change in that time that makes it necessary. > Either we pick one and disenfranchise someone, or go with two. I would > say if we do the latter, do Sunday and Wednesday to keep momentum up. Alternating weeks? Also, any reason to choose Wednesday over Tuesday? We have a historic Tuesday alignment and there are 4 common open hours on Tue. v. 2 common on Wed. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070310/b573d9ef/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sat Mar 10 19:04:49 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 14:04:49 -0500 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 2 Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <1173552011.3935.337.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45F2F1A4.6040600@fedoralinks.org> <1173552011.3935.337.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1173553489.11733.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 10:40 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 11:57 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > > It has been suggested that we hold our meetings in #fedora-meeting. > > > > As a group we should decide this for ourselves and choose the venue that > > works best for our project. > > Another option is to hold the formal meeting (discussions and decisions) > on #fedora-meeting, and work in parallel in #fedora-docs. > > For example, tomorrow we're going to be making decisions on a few items. > At the same time, Bob and I could be on #fedora-docs doing the weeding > of Docs/Beats/ +1 -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070310/51a81762/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sat Mar 10 19:09:41 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 14:09:41 -0500 Subject: FDSCo agenda for 11-Mar-2007 Item 0 Meeting time In-Reply-To: <1173552369.3935.343.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> <1173550984.11733.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173552369.3935.343.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1173553781.11733.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 10:46 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 13:23 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 10:38 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > > > Meeting times have been discussed in IRC and on the list. > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes shows the results > > > of our survey to find a time that will work for us all. > > > > > > -- > > > Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen > > > gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 > > > Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > > > Right, looks like: > > > > Weekend - tomorrow (Sun) at either 1600 UTC (1100 EST/0800 PST) or 1700 > > UTC (1200 EST/0900 PST) > > And in fact, that is when we are meeting tomorrow. :) 11:00 Eastern, right? Cool. > > Weekday - Mon/Tue/Wed at 1800 UTC (1300 EST/1000 PST) or 1900 UTC (1400 > > EST/1100 PST) > > I note that we have around 4 to 6 weeks until Bob is unavailable on > weekends. > > So, we could use the weekend meeting time for a month and then add a > weekday meeting time when we need to. > > One reason to do this is >1 of us are likely to have a scheduling change > in that time that makes it necessary. True dat. > > Either we pick one and disenfranchise someone, or go with two. I would > > say if we do the latter, do Sunday and Wednesday to keep momentum up. > > Alternating weeks? Hey, that would work, good idea. /me wishes once again that there were a real Hula server or something like it available for Fedora taskmasters to organize our project schedules. Using the wiki for this is ridiculous. > Also, any reason to choose Wednesday over Tuesday? We have a historic > Tuesday alignment and there are 4 common open hours on Tue. v. 2 common > on Wed. Roger that, my eyes were apparently only half on the screen. Works for me, since the weekday meeting will be the one I'd miss. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070310/5fbcc37c/attachment.sig> From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Sat Mar 10 19:48:57 2007 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 13:48:57 -0600 Subject: FDSCo pages updated Message-ID: <45F30BA9.3090408@fedoralinks.org> I updated the Steering Committee page[1] with our new FDSCo members. I also created a meeting agenda page[2] and updated the meeting time information. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingAgenda -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Mar 10 20:26:55 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:26:55 +0000 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 2 Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <1173552011.3935.337.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45F2F1A4.6040600@fedoralinks.org> <1173552011.3935.337.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45F3148F.2070503@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 11:57 -0600, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: >> It has been suggested that we hold our meetings in #fedora-meeting. >> >> As a group we should decide this for ourselves and choose the venue that >> works best for our project. > > Another option is to hold the formal meeting (discussions and decisions) > on #fedora-meeting, and work in parallel in #fedora-docs. Good idea. -d > For example, tomorrow we're going to be making decisions on a few items. > At the same time, Bob and I could be on #fedora-docs doing the weeding > of Docs/Beats/ > > - Karsten > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Mar 10 20:39:01 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:39:01 +0000 Subject: FDSCo pages updated In-Reply-To: <45F30BA9.3090408@fedoralinks.org> References: <45F30BA9.3090408@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <45F31765.5040206@glezos.com> O/H Robert 'Bob' Jensen ??????: > I updated the Steering Committee page[1] with our new FDSCo members. I > also created a meeting agenda page[2] and updated the meeting time > information. > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee > [2] > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingAgenda Let's point out here that these meetings are open to anyone to attend and participate. Don't you mind the "SteeringCommittee" string on the URL of that wiki page (actually, I could argue to remove it). If there is any Docs member that would like to attend the meetings and has some suggestions for the meeting times, please just say it! We work as a team here. FDSCo exists to help the project decide, not to decide for it. Same goes for work done and ideas brought forward. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Mar 10 20:52:18 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2007 20:52:18 +0000 Subject: FDSCo agenda for 11-Mar-2007 In-Reply-To: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> References: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> Message-ID: <45F31A82.2040202@glezos.com> (Why did we start numbering from 0? Honestly, people! :) ## Item 4: Recruitment processes I'd like us to discuss the way we enable new members of the FDP to contribute to the project. Currently, we have a Schedule wiki page and we ask new members to choose on what they'd like to work. While this is very liberal, I think its too overwhelming for new members. I got lost at the beginning by watching 1K technical discussions. Maybe we could have smaller and more precisely defined tasks so that new members can understand how we work by working with a mentor. Let me write down some examples of tasks that could be picked up and worked with a mentor (on top of my head): * Take a look at DUG and propose 5 suggestions to improve it * Discuss with your mentor what we need to document and how to organize DUG to provide info for KDE and XFCE desktops as well * Grab our Docbook sources for Guide X, compile it, produce translations and update PO files * Checkout the web directory and report on the way we do redirects It would be great if new members, which haven't found a way to contribute, participated in the above discussion. Bring your ideas forward, tell us what you'd like us to do to help you contribute to the project! :) -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Sat Mar 10 23:50:10 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 00:50:10 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction / Fedora Translation Project In-Reply-To: <1173487889.11733.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> <1173480257.3935.290.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173487889.11733.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703101550m766fe7e8w869dd72397169790@mail.gmail.com> John, Karsten, Paul, Thanks for the warm welcome. I'm eager to get started, but having trouble getting access to the documents to be translated. I must be missing something here. I was able to 'take' the "French (France) timezones" translation at http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status using the login and PIN sent to me via email a couple of weeks ago by fedora-trans-list-owner at redhat.com, however I then 'released' it because I would like to have a look at it before taking it. The problem I'm having is from the terminal. This is what I get when I enter the following commands (from translator's quick start guide): [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVS_RSH=ssh [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at i18n.redhat.com:/usr/local/CVS [linux at localhost ~]$ cvs -z9 co translate/ Connection closed by 66.187.233.241 cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any) [linux at localhost ~]$ I read the FAQ and some other documentation, but just can't figure out what's missing or not quite right. I don't really understand the procedure and how this system of accessing documents works yet. Could somebody give me a hand? Many thanks, John P.S. - I've also tried figuring out how to use IRC to chat on #fedora-docs, but haven't had any success yet. I'll do some more searching and googling though... On 10/03/07, Paul W. Frields <stickster at gmail.com > wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-03-09 at 14:44 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-03-08 at 15:09 +0100, John Charron wrote: > > > Self-Introduction: John Charron - Fedora Translation Project > > > > Hola John, > > > > > Linux and Fedora are relatively new to me and so is ICT. As > > > translator, I don't yet know what aspects of the Fedora Project would > > > interest me most. Although the translation of material related to my > > > areas of specialization interests me (programs for amateur and > > > professional musicians, electronic dictionaries, translation software, > > > applications for foreign language training, etc.), I would also be > > > interested in translating more technical documentation on various > > > ICT-related topics. I will be studying computer science at the local > > > university here in Montpellier from September 2007 and would like my > > > work for the project to be both a contribution and a learning > > > experience. > > > > Excellent; you are starting in a good place within Fedora. From here > > you'll be able to see into many places and decide what else is > > interesting to you. > > > > You may want to look into fedora-music-list; it's been mainly technical > > about e.g. Planet CCRMA. One great thing about free software is how > > many people have talents and interests in other areas. Always dynamic > > people doing interesting things! > > Yes, and make sure you say howdy to Dimitris Glezos (IRC nick "glezos"), > who is involved with us, the Translation (L10N) project and > Infrastructure. He may have some tips, advice, or just a good word of > the day. :-) > > > > I am looking forward to participating in the Fedora Translation > > > Project and eager to becoming more involved in the Fedora community! > > > > Welcome! > > Ditto! > > > > P.S. - I need cvsdocs membership approval (see below) and may need > > > some help getting started as well. Many thanks. > > > > Done. Thanks for the reminder, it sometimes takes us a while to notice > > people's requests. > > > > You'll also want to request access to the new 'cvsl10n' group; we are > > currently working on bringing documentation translation back into the > > Fedora infrastructure. Keep your eyes open here and on > > fedora-trans-list for more details. > > And feel free to ask questions here or in IRC (irc.freenode.net , > #fedora-docs). Someone is almost always around to help. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- John Charron Montpellier, France Volunteer, Fedora Project GPG key: E40B581F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/540d8479/attachment.htm> From dimitris at glezos.com Sun Mar 11 03:54:03 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 03:54:03 +0000 Subject: Self-Introduction / Fedora Translation Project In-Reply-To: <a7a7eb0b0703101550m766fe7e8w869dd72397169790@mail.gmail.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> <1173480257.3935.290.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173487889.11733.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <a7a7eb0b0703101550m766fe7e8w869dd72397169790@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45F37D5B.2090005@glezos.com> O/H John Charron ??????: > John, Karsten, Paul, > > Thanks for the warm welcome. > > I'm eager to get started, but having trouble getting access to the > documents to be translated. I must be missing something here. Hey John. A big "Welcome!" from me too. I hope you have a great time with us folks. :-) > I was able to 'take' the "French (France) timezones" translation at > http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status using the login and PIN sent > to me via email a couple of weeks ago by > fedora-trans-list-owner at redhat.com So, this raises the Ultimate Question: How many accounts/passwords do we use in Fedora? 1. Fedora Account System & password for SSH key 2. Wiki & password 3. i18n system 4. i18n Take/Apply web & pin (I didn't even remember having this one...) 5. Mailing lists & several passwords Anything I forget? > <mailto:fedora-trans-list-owner at redhat.com>, however I then 'released' > it because I would like to have a look at it before taking it. The > problem I'm having is from the terminal. This is what I get when I enter > the following commands (from translator's quick start guide): > > [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVS_RSH=ssh > [linux at localhost ~]$ export > CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at i18n.redhat.com:/usr/local/CVS > [linux at localhost ~]$ cvs -z9 co translate/ > Connection closed by 66.187.233.241 <http://66.187.233.241/> > cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages > if any) > [linux at localhost ~]$ You have to substitute substitute the username 'fcrhuser' with the username you acquired from the following page: http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-signup/ So, to make it simple, we have two systems: The above one (i18n.redhat.com) and the Fedora Account System. You will use the second one in most cases. Only for translations, you will have to use the i18n one. > I read the FAQ and some other documentation, but just can't figure out > what's missing or not quite right. I don't really understand the > procedure and how this system of accessing documents works yet. Could > somebody give me a hand? > > Many thanks, > > John > > P.S. - I've also tried figuring out how to use IRC to chat on > #fedora-docs, but haven't had any success yet. I'll do some more > searching and googling though... Open `xchat`, connect on the Freenode network and join #fedora-docs. If you have any questions, you can contact me on the Jabber network ('glezos at jabber.org') or even msn ('dimitris at glezos.com'). Have fun! :-) -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 07:58:39 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:58:39 +0300 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 2 Meeting Location In-Reply-To: <45F3148F.2070503@glezos.com> References: <45F2F1A4.6040600@fedoralinks.org> <1173552011.3935.337.camel@erato.phig.org> <45F3148F.2070503@glezos.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0703102358m53fb2fa0l62e32a8f556b9a9b@mail.gmail.com> +1 I will be logging into #fedora-docs and #fedora-meeting at the same time for today's meeting. John Babich From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 08:28:55 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:28:55 +0300 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 5 KDE & Xfce Coverage Message-ID: <9d2c731f0703110028o382fe885r5f06931327be05b0@mail.gmail.com> FDP Team Members: I propose that we address the topic of expanding our coverage of the desktop and applications to include more KDE and Xfce in addition to GNOME. This is in line with the merger of the Core and Extras repositories, and the new KDE LiveCD spin. More coverage will require a timetable (should this be included in Fedora 7) and how best to assign the work. This may be a good assignment for a new FDP member who feels passionately about KDE or Xfce. Also, what docs should be created or modified? Candidates may be the - Desktop User Guide - Installation Guide - Special Topics - etc. John Babich From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 08:35:08 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:35:08 +0300 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 6 PDF Versions Message-ID: <9d2c731f0703110035y70ac77foe3a4f103b1364ce@mail.gmail.com> FDP Team: I propose a short discussion of the possibility of including PDF versions for certain key documents on the wiki. These would need to be manually created until all the pieces are in place for an automatic creation process. Any referenced links should be made explicit, which would require modifying some wiki pages. Single-page views should be created to make it easier to manually produce the desired PDFs. John Babich From kwade at redhat.com Sun Mar 11 11:56:28 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 03:56:28 -0800 Subject: FDSCo agenda for 11-Mar-2007 Item 0 Meeting time In-Reply-To: <1173553781.11733.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> <1173550984.11733.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173552369.3935.343.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173553781.11733.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1173614188.3935.350.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 14:09 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > > Weekend - tomorrow (Sun) at either 1600 UTC (1100 EST/0800 PST) or 1700 > > > UTC (1200 EST/0900 PST) > > > > And in fact, that is when we are meeting tomorrow. :) > > 11:00 Eastern, right? Cool. Oh, we are now in trouble, aren't we. The meeting time we discussed was 1600 UTC. Now, of course, we have just had a time change in the US. So, I'll guess we'll see what happens in the morning. Depending on when we start, #fedora-meeting might be already busy (1600 UTC scheduled for the EPEL SIG.) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/9173bca3/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 14:35:38 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:35:38 -0400 Subject: FDSCo agenda for 11-Mar-2007 Item 0 Meeting time In-Reply-To: <1173614188.3935.350.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> <1173550984.11733.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173552369.3935.343.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173553781.11733.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173614188.3935.350.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1173623738.20019.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 03:56 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 14:09 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > > > > Weekend - tomorrow (Sun) at either 1600 UTC (1100 EST/0800 PST) or 1700 > > > > UTC (1200 EST/0900 PST) > > > > > > And in fact, that is when we are meeting tomorrow. :) > > > > 11:00 Eastern, right? Cool. > > Oh, we are now in trouble, aren't we. > > The meeting time we discussed was 1600 UTC. > > Now, of course, we have just had a time change in the US. > > So, I'll guess we'll see what happens in the morning. Depending on when > we start, #fedora-meeting might be already busy (1600 UTC scheduled for > the EPEL SIG.) Perhaps we should shoot for 1700 UTC since that is the other block that looks most open on our draft schedule: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/88d3f03b/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 14:37:24 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:37:24 -0400 Subject: FDSCo pages updated In-Reply-To: <45F31765.5040206@glezos.com> References: <45F30BA9.3090408@fedoralinks.org> <45F31765.5040206@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1173623844.20019.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 20:39 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Robert 'Bob' Jensen ??????: > > I updated the Steering Committee page[1] with our new FDSCo members. I > > also created a meeting agenda page[2] and updated the meeting time > > information. > > > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee > > [2] > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingAgenda > > Let's point out here that these meetings are open to anyone to attend and > participate. Don't you mind the "SteeringCommittee" string on the URL of that > wiki page (actually, I could argue to remove it). > > If there is any Docs member that would like to attend the meetings and has some > suggestions for the meeting times, please just say it! > > We work as a team here. FDSCo exists to help the project decide, not to decide > for it. Same goes for work done and ideas brought forward. +1 from me; more participation would be warmly welcomed, the only caveat being we should try and get the agenda handled quickly and efficiently, and have plenty of AOB time available for people to bring up those new ideas. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/30a4ac47/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 14:40:14 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:40:14 -0400 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 5 KDE & Xfce Coverage In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0703110028o382fe885r5f06931327be05b0@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0703110028o382fe885r5f06931327be05b0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1173624014.20019.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 11:28 +0300, John Babich wrote: > Also, what docs should be created or modified? Candidates may > be the > - Desktop User Guide > - Installation Guide > - Special Topics > - etc. I doubt the Installation Guide needs modification, since it doesn't make any recommendations for package groups and doesn't have a Qt-based installation mode. But I'm all for integrating KDE stuff into guides where needed. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/e34561c9/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 15:01:10 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:01:10 -0400 Subject: FDSCo agenda 11-Mar-2007 Item 6 PDF Versions In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0703110035y70ac77foe3a4f103b1364ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0703110035y70ac77foe3a4f103b1364ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1173625270.20019.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 11:35 +0300, John Babich wrote: > FDP Team: > > I propose a short discussion of the possibility of including > PDF versions for certain key documents on the wiki. > > These would need to be manually created until all the > pieces are in place for an automatic creation process. > > Any referenced links should be made explicit, which would > require modifying some wiki pages. Single-page views > should be created to make it easier to manually produce > the desired PDFs. Great discussion topic! My US $0.02: * I think you're getting yourself into a world of pain when you start talking about non-automated generation of wiki => PDF. The wiki lends itself well to "update early and often." Manual generation, by definition, does not. * To which key documents do you refer? * What use case is driving generation of PDF for these documents? A PDF may be useful for printing things "prettily," but a document that lives (in the sense of "lives and breathes") on the wiki and is being updated regularly shouldn't be relied on in frozen, dead-tree form, where it can't receive updates. And if the document *doesn't* change often, we should be converting it to XML and maintaining it in CVS/${SCM}. I can easily envision, and even see simple mental pseudocode for, a script that watched RSS for changes, and regenerated and posted new PDF as needed. But that seems like a huge kludge crying out for CMS: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Plone My preference is (almost always) to expand our ability to perform these tasks in a more scalable way. I realize that often those goals require a much larger technical skill set, and I certainly don't profess to possess it, but sometimes what's needed is not so much "the doing" as the wrangling and coordination of other people who can do. However, as far as the wiki goes, I certainly am not going to stand in the way of people editing, since that is in fact the point! I notice that all the sentences above are passive voice ("<X> should be done"); did you mean to say you were volunteering to do this? If so, nothing prevents you from "just doing it," Nike-style. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/e452fd56/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Sun Mar 11 15:14:34 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 07:14:34 -0800 Subject: FDSCo agenda for 11-Mar-2007 Item 0 Meeting time In-Reply-To: <1173623738.20019.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> <1173550984.11733.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173552369.3935.343.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173553781.11733.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173614188.3935.350.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173623738.20019.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1173626074.3935.358.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 10:35 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Perhaps we should shoot for 1700 UTC since that is the other block that > looks most open on our draft schedule: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes OK. I put time my times before the time change, so I'll have to review that the chart is still accurate for me. In general 1700 is a little late in the morning for me, but I'll make do today. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/71cd02a9/attachment.sig> From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 15:17:23 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:17:23 +0300 Subject: FDSCo agenda for 11-Mar-2007 Item 0 Meeting time In-Reply-To: <1173626074.3935.358.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> <1173550984.11733.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173552369.3935.343.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173553781.11733.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173614188.3935.350.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173623738.20019.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173626074.3935.358.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0703110817n4058998cpe92aa8783d28f0c4@mail.gmail.com> On 3/11/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 10:35 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > In general 1700 is a little late in the morning for me, but I'll make do > today. 1700 UTC is fine by me. John Babich From stickster at gmail.com Sun Mar 11 15:21:41 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 11:21:41 -0400 Subject: FDSCo agenda for 11-Mar-2007 Item 0 Meeting time In-Reply-To: <1173626074.3935.358.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45F2DF1C.9060008@fedoralinks.org> <1173550984.11733.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173552369.3935.343.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173553781.11733.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173614188.3935.350.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173623738.20019.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173626074.3935.358.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1173626501.20019.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 07:14 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 10:35 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > Perhaps we should shoot for 1700 UTC since that is the other block that > > looks most open on our draft schedule: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes > > OK. I put time my times before the time change, so I'll have to review > that the chart is still accurate for me. > > In general 1700 is a little late in the morning for me, but I'll make do > today. Should we adjust the chart to the new DST? I suppose that could be as easy as rearranging the left-most "time" cells and scooting one row to the other end of the table. If so, all my times will apply again (i.e. before 5:00 p.m. is always bad for me whether that's UTC-5 or UTC-4), and I guess everyone else is about the same. But since DST moves differently for many places, I didn't want to be too presumptuous by scootching the entries around like that. /me hates DST and wishes it could just evaporate, or that we would base all time on British standard/summer time instead. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/5f77a651/attachment.sig> From mg at hacka.net Sun Mar 11 16:56:55 2007 From: mg at hacka.net (Magnus Glantz) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 17:56:55 +0100 Subject: Some questions from a new member In-Reply-To: <20070311160022.17CFD73076@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070311160022.17CFD73076@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1173632215.3423.5.camel@blaa> Hello, 1) I'm new to the translation project and are trying to create a personal description page at the wiki, but I'm getting a 'access denied' kind of message when trying to create any page. I saw that a lot of people have a personal page at the Wiki but perhaps this does to apply to translation members? Or is it something I have to do exect for regestering a user at the Wiki. 2) I've looked thru the http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status for my language (Swedish), but everything seems translated, does that mean there is nothing to do at the moment? :) Best regards, Magnus Glantz From kwade at redhat.com Sun Mar 11 18:08:58 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:08:58 -0800 Subject: Some questions from a new member In-Reply-To: <1173632215.3423.5.camel@blaa> References: <20070311160022.17CFD73076@hormel.redhat.com> <1173632215.3423.5.camel@blaa> Message-ID: <1173636538.3935.363.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 17:56 +0100, Magnus Glantz wrote: > Hello, > > 1) I'm new to the translation project and are trying to create a > personal description page at the wiki, but I'm getting a 'access denied' > kind of message when trying to create any page. I saw that a lot of > people have a personal page at the Wiki but perhaps this does to apply > to translation members? Or is it something I have to do exect for > regestering a user at the Wiki. Sorry about how confusing all this is. You need to be added to the EditGroup page by someone who is already on that page. What is your WikiName username? One of us can add you. > 2) I've looked thru the http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status for > my language (Swedish), but everything seems translated, does that mean > there is nothing to do at the moment? :) For documentation, we haven't put up anything to translate yet. Here is our schedule: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule Keep your eyes on this list (and fedora-trans-list) for announcements about translations. thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/534a893e/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Mon Mar 12 01:32:16 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 21:32:16 -0400 Subject: CVS reorg In-Reply-To: <1173543745.11733.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1173543745.11733.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1173663137.3750.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 11:22 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I am planning to do a little housecleaning in CVS, but particularly the > "docs-common" module. We have a number of areas in that module in which > rendered content is saved along with source data, when this content > could be produced on an "as-needed" basis by the user. Here are some > examples: I laid some groundwork for this tonight by updating both the Makefile.common and all the document-specific Makefiles. These changes will allow users to do either single-module or full repo checkouts and have their documents build properly. If you have anything checked out from CVS, you need to update, including your copy of docs-common. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/18cff011/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Mon Mar 12 02:08:03 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:08:03 -0800 Subject: Wiki templates Message-ID: <1173665283.3935.374.camel@erato.phig.org> Here's one for our "new writer task list": * Work out a set of what kind of pages need a template on the Wiki; do this on fedora-docs-list * Solicit for examples of existing pages that we want to exemplify * Build a series of pages that float to the top of template list, such as AbcProjectTemplate, AbcUserPageTemplate, etc. Yet another thing I keep meaning to do ... :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070311/aa6ed3c5/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Mon Mar 12 18:50:39 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:50:39 -0800 Subject: CVS reorg In-Reply-To: <1173543745.11733.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1173543745.11733.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1173725439.3935.418.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 11:22 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Discussion? None required here, your ideas rock. I particularly like that we can have SVG + PO to make localized images very easy ... right? What do we do about screenshots and other raster images? In terms of i) common files (when needed), and ii) l10n. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070312/7dd35eb5/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Mon Mar 12 18:58:52 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 10:58:52 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction / Fedora Translation Project In-Reply-To: <45F37D5B.2090005@glezos.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> <1173480257.3935.290.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173487889.11733.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <a7a7eb0b0703101550m766fe7e8w869dd72397169790@mail.gmail.com> <45F37D5B.2090005@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1173725932.3935.427.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 03:54 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > So, this raises the Ultimate Question: How many accounts/passwords do we use in > Fedora? John -- sorry about all the confusing stuff it takes to get started. We are working very actively in improving all this, but it has grown organically and is a bit crazy. > 1. Fedora Account System & password for SSH key > 2. Wiki & password > 3. i18n system > 4. i18n Take/Apply web & pin (I didn't even remember having this one...) > 5. Mailing lists & several passwords > > Anything I forget? BTW, Marvelous Mike does a break down for some other projects in this video: http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/fudcon-boston-2007-lowering-barriers.ogg.torrent (Yep, that's me, the second speaker, in dark-framed glasses, blue-button down shirt over a GSoC t-shirt; Greg DeK is the guy in the Fedora t-shirt; and so forth) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070312/bfba2fa3/attachment.sig> From dimitris at glezos.com Mon Mar 12 18:59:40 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 18:59:40 +0000 Subject: DocWritersGroup & DocsRawhide Message-ID: <45F5A31C.2030600@glezos.com> Do we need the $subject pages? -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Mon Mar 12 19:21:35 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:21:35 -0800 Subject: DocWritersGroup & DocsRawhide In-Reply-To: <45F5A31C.2030600@glezos.com> References: <45F5A31C.2030600@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1173727295.3935.432.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-03-12 at 18:59 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > Do we need the $subject pages? DocWritersGroup provides us a group to use for ACLs. That supports this scheme on the Wiki: wiki/ProjectPages => EditGroup r/w wiki/Docs/Drafts => DocWritersGroup r/w wiki/Docs => DocEditorsGroup r/w We put that together when we thought we might need more control in Docs/Drafts/. I no longer hold that opinion personally, but we might want to use this in the future. I don't know. DocsRawhide ... well, we wanted that but haven't revitalized the rawhide of documentation builds. We can host that elsewhere and link to it elsewhere, so this interstitial page is probably not needed. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070312/764fce53/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Mon Mar 12 19:44:23 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 15:44:23 -0400 Subject: CVS reorg In-Reply-To: <1173725439.3935.418.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1173543745.11733.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173725439.3935.418.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1173728663.31081.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-03-12 at 10:50 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2007-03-10 at 11:22 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > Discussion? > > None required here, your ideas rock. > > I particularly like that we can have SVG + PO to make localized images > very easy ... right? > > What do we do about screenshots and other raster images? In terms of i) > common files (when needed), and ii) l10n. Well, these are all on a module-by-module (doc-by-doc) basis. We want to rely on SVG as much as possible. There's really no way to "translate" raster images; we have to rely on three things: 1. We only use screenshots where absolutely necessary 2. Users can always fall back to en_US as a crutch since the UI should remain relatively constant 3. The build tools already allow for other l10n versions of screenshots Did I interpret your question right? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070312/5874668c/attachment.sig> From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Mon Mar 12 20:11:43 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:11:43 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction / Fedora Translation Project In-Reply-To: <1173725932.3935.427.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> <1173480257.3935.290.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173487889.11733.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <a7a7eb0b0703101550m766fe7e8w869dd72397169790@mail.gmail.com> <45F37D5B.2090005@glezos.com> <1173725932.3935.427.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703121311j14544550w81e9ce2001e5f8bd@mail.gmail.com> Karsten, Thanks for the message. Solved the problem (message from Chester at i18h): Hi John, > > I think I find the problem. Your ssh key is incomplete in our database. > Can you send me your public key as an attachment to me? > It should be ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub > > I'll update your ssh key then you should be able to connect to > elvis.redhat.com > > Regards, > Chester I was able to download the 'translate' directory. I'm still not sure about what's in the directory. Everthing in it is already translated, or at least it seems so. And when I go to the http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-statuspage [French (France)], everything seems available! I've submitted a request (email) for the 'timezones' translation, but I'd like to see it before taking it. I'm waiting for a reply. I get the impression that the source language of all documents is English US. Is that right? Anyway, we're getting there... slowly but surely. I'll keep you posted on how things are going. John On 12/03/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > > On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 03:54 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > > So, this raises the Ultimate Question: How many accounts/passwords do we > use in > > Fedora? > > John -- sorry about all the confusing stuff it takes to get started. We > are working very actively in improving all this, but it has grown > organically and is a bit crazy. > > > 1. Fedora Account System & password for SSH key > > 2. Wiki & password > > 3. i18n system > > 4. i18n Take/Apply web & pin (I didn't even remember having this > one...) > > 5. Mailing lists & several passwords > > > > Anything I forget? > > BTW, Marvelous Mike does a break down for some other projects in this > video: > > > http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/fudcon-boston-2007-lowering-barriers.ogg.torrent > > (Yep, that's me, the second speaker, in dark-framed glasses, blue-button > down shirt over a GSoC t-shirt; Greg DeK is the guy in the Fedora > t-shirt; and so forth) > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- John Charron Montpellier, France email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com Volunteer, Fedora Project GPG key: E40B581F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070312/6a20b1f5/attachment.htm> From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Mon Mar 12 20:15:26 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:15:26 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction / Fedora Translation Project In-Reply-To: <a7a7eb0b0703121311j14544550w81e9ce2001e5f8bd@mail.gmail.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> <1173480257.3935.290.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173487889.11733.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <a7a7eb0b0703101550m766fe7e8w869dd72397169790@mail.gmail.com> <45F37D5B.2090005@glezos.com> <1173725932.3935.427.camel@erato.phig.org> <a7a7eb0b0703121311j14544550w81e9ce2001e5f8bd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703121315u7aceb765x5be54df3e52a8255@mail.gmail.com> P.S. - I've just downloaded Bittorrent, but the download is very slow (the video you sent me). I'll watch it as soon as I can though. Cheers. On 12/03/07, John Charron <fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com> wrote: > > Karsten, > > Thanks for the message. > > Solved the problem (message from Chester at i18h): > > Hi John, > > > > I think I find the problem. Your ssh key is incomplete in our database. > > Can you send me your public key as an attachment to me? > > It should be ~/.ssh/id_dsa.pub > > > > I'll update your ssh key then you should be able to connect to > > elvis.redhat.com > > > > Regards, > > Chester > > > I was able to download the 'translate' directory. I'm still not sure about > what's in the directory. Everthing in it is already translated, or at least > it seems so. And when I go to the > http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status page [French (France)], > everything seems available! I've submitted a request (email) for the > 'timezones' translation, but I'd like to see it before taking it. I'm > waiting for a reply. I get the impression that the source language of all > documents is English US. Is that right? Anyway, we're getting there... > slowly but surely. > > I'll keep you posted on how things are going. > > John > > On 12/03/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com > wrote: > > > On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 03:54 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > > > > So, this raises the Ultimate Question: How many accounts/passwords do > > we use in > > > Fedora? > > > > John -- sorry about all the confusing stuff it takes to get started. We > > are working very actively in improving all this, but it has grown > > organically and is a bit crazy. > > > > > 1. Fedora Account System & password for SSH key > > > 2. Wiki & password > > > 3. i18n system > > > 4. i18n Take/Apply web & pin (I didn't even remember having this > > one...) > > > 5. Mailing lists & several passwords > > > > > > Anything I forget? > > > > BTW, Marvelous Mike does a break down for some other projects in this > > video: > > > > http://torrent.fedoraproject.org/torrents/fudcon-boston-2007-lowering-barriers.ogg.torrent > > > > > > (Yep, that's me, the second speaker, in dark-framed glasses, blue-button > > down shirt over a GSoC t-shirt; Greg DeK is the guy in the Fedora > > t-shirt; and so forth) > > > > - Karsten > > -- > > Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > > > -- > John Charron > Montpellier, France > email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com > msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com > Volunteer, Fedora Project > GPG key: E40B581F > -- John Charron Montpellier, France email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com Volunteer, Fedora Project GPG key: E40B581F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070312/3b40a54f/attachment.htm> From kwade at redhat.com Mon Mar 12 21:02:19 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 13:02:19 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction / Fedora Translation Project In-Reply-To: <a7a7eb0b0703121315u7aceb765x5be54df3e52a8255@mail.gmail.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703080609u3faf7e0blb602ca9ec61f4799@mail.gmail.com> <1173480257.3935.290.camel@erato.phig.org> <1173487889.11733.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <a7a7eb0b0703101550m766fe7e8w869dd72397169790@mail.gmail.com> <45F37D5B.2090005@glezos.com> <1173725932.3935.427.camel@erato.phig.org> <a7a7eb0b0703121311j14544550w81e9ce2001e5f8bd@mail.gmail.com> <a7a7eb0b0703121315u7aceb765x5be54df3e52a8255@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1173733339.3935.435.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-03-12 at 21:15 +0100, John Charron wrote: > P.S. - I've just downloaded Bittorrent, but the download is very slow > (the video you sent me). I'll watch it as soon as I can though. You are welcome to, but I meant it as a response to Dimitris list of accounts to get involved. :) It is a session at the last FUDCon where we discussed this exact issue -- how to lower the barriers to contributing to Fedora, while keeping the important parts intact. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070312/f3943ea2/attachment.sig> From ed at rpath.com Mon Mar 12 21:33:46 2007 From: ed at rpath.com (Edward C. Bailey) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2007 17:33:46 -0400 Subject: Tech writing position available... Message-ID: <7s4poqywn9.fsf@logo.rdu.rpath.com> Hello all, rPath is looking for a Technical Writer to be based at our Raleigh, North Carolina office. Details are available on LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/emailContacts?context=2&itemID=284382&itemLinkName=Technical+Writer+at+rPath%2C+Inc%2E&goback=%2Evjs_284382_0_1173734273186 ...or on Craigslist: http://raleigh.craigslist.org/sof/292748059.html We return you to your regularly-scheduled documentation project... :-) Ed -- Ed Bailey http://public.xdi.org/=edward.c.bailey rPath, Inc. http://www.rpath.com/ From kwade at redhat.com Tue Mar 13 20:12:30 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:12:30 -0700 Subject: translation theory question Message-ID: <1173816750.4220.16.camel@erato.phig.org> I was wondering ... would it be desireable to be able to flag a chunk of content as, "Don't retranslate"? The case I'm thinking of is where a small change in the source language fixes punctuation, grammar, or style without affecting the meaning. The current translation tools flag that section as fuzzy or untranslated, after the change is made. I can do this manually by diffing the two POT files, finding the changed msgid sections, and sending out a note not to bother translating those msgids. But that throws off the automagic tools that say how much needs to be translated, etc. So I'm wondering: 1. Is this a good idea? 2. Can we do it with xml2po? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070313/c4fa0d2c/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Tue Mar 13 20:14:23 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 13:14:23 -0700 Subject: cvsdocs => cvsl10n in our processes Message-ID: <1173816863.4220.21.camel@erato.phig.org> We need to quickly update our processes to point translators at the new group, cvsl10n. At the same time, we'll make sure to create a new, straight forward process for joining the new cvsl10n. For example, we don't need to require existing project members to reintroduce themselves. We'll devise a better process. :) Heads up to change references in any content you maintain or come across. For example, we'll need to update, rebuild, and republish the Translation Quick Start Guide. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070313/5c7580a4/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Tue Mar 13 22:08:05 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:08:05 -0400 Subject: translation theory question In-Reply-To: <1173816750.4220.16.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1173816750.4220.16.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1173823685.3720.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-03-13 at 13:12 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > I was wondering ... would it be desireable to be able to flag a chunk of > content as, "Don't retranslate"? > > The case I'm thinking of is where a small change in the source language > fixes punctuation, grammar, or style without affecting the meaning. The > current translation tools flag that section as fuzzy or untranslated, > after the change is made. > > I can do this manually by diffing the two POT files, finding the changed > msgid sections, and sending out a note not to bother translating those > msgids. But that throws off the automagic tools that say how much needs > to be translated, etc. > > So I'm wondering: > > 1. Is this a good idea? > 2. Can we do it with xml2po? I think the answer to (1) may be "no." How, for example, do we tell that a translation does not misinterpret the original POT entry based on a stylistic mistake, confusion, or technicality, and that the change might allow the translators to better understand and translate the content? If the change very subtly erases the confusion because it is a wording change, we would *want* translators to see the change and fix their translations. I'd think it's possible even for two translators to agree that their understanding of wording is correct, yet make a mistake simply due to an ambiguity created by the author and editor. These sorts of changes would cause an "untranslated" message more often than not, and the automatic flag to the translator is to at least look at the meaning and decide for themselves (as the SMEs) whether a change is warranted. Punctuation changes, on the other hand, might make a "fuzzy" message, but are very easy for translators to cope with. I don't think we really want to munge around with established tools just for the purpose of creating uncertainty about PO stats. That way lies madness. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070313/c51f9929/attachment.sig> From mg at hacka.net Tue Mar 13 22:23:28 2007 From: mg at hacka.net (Magnus Glantz) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:23:28 +0100 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 37, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: <20070312160032.E34B97338E@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070312160032.E34B97338E@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1173824608.4155.5.camel@blaa> Karsten, My Wiki username is: magnusg Thanks for the link, looking forward to the next round :) //M > Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 10:08:58 -0800 > From: Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> > Subject: Re: Some questions from a new member > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Message-ID: <1173636538.3935.363.camel at erato.phig.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > On Sun, 2007-03-11 at 17:56 +0100, Magnus Glantz wrote: > > Hello, > > > > 1) I'm new to the translation project and are trying to create a > > personal description page at the wiki, but I'm getting a 'access denied' > > kind of message when trying to create any page. I saw that a lot of > > people have a personal page at the Wiki but perhaps this does to apply > > to translation members? Or is it something I have to do exect for > > regestering a user at the Wiki. > > Sorry about how confusing all this is. > > You need to be added to the EditGroup page by someone who is already on > that page. > > What is your WikiName username? One of us can add you. > > > 2) I've looked thru the http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status for > > my language (Swedish), but everything seems translated, does that mean > > there is nothing to do at the moment? :) > > For documentation, we haven't put up anything to translate yet. Here is > our schedule: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule > > Keep your eyes on this list (and fedora-trans-list) for announcements > about translations. > > thx - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2007 18:08:03 -0800 > From: Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> > Subject: Wiki templates > To: Fedora Documentation Project <fedora-docs-list at redhat.com> > Message-ID: <1173665283.3935.374.camel at erato.phig.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Here's one for our "new writer task list": > > * Work out a set of what kind of pages need a template on the Wiki; do > this on fedora-docs-list > * Solicit for examples of existing pages that we want to exemplify > * Build a series of pages that float to the top of template list, such > as AbcProjectTemplate, AbcUserPageTemplate, etc. > > Yet another thing I keep meaning to do ... :) > > - Karsten From dimitris at glezos.com Tue Mar 13 23:43:10 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 23:43:10 +0000 Subject: translation theory question In-Reply-To: <1173816750.4220.16.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1173816750.4220.16.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45F7370E.7010102@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > I was wondering ... would it be desireable to be able to flag a chunk of > content as, "Don't retranslate"? > > The case I'm thinking of is where a small change in the source language > fixes punctuation, grammar, or style without affecting the meaning. The > current translation tools flag that section as fuzzy or untranslated, > after the change is made. > > I can do this manually by diffing the two POT files, finding the changed > msgid sections, and sending out a note not to bother translating those > msgids. But that throws off the automagic tools that say how much needs > to be translated, etc. I agree with Paul in general. However, if we are talking about the Release Notes in particular (huuuge with huuuuge strings) then as a translator I think that a diff file would be very useful. How? Well, if one large string is added a comma, it becomes fuzzy but this minor change isn't shown in kbabel (and friends). You can't tell what has changed since the last version. Instead of reading through the whole paragraph *and* the translated one (in parallel) (basically, re-translating), it would be more quick if I had the answer one "Alt-Tab + /<start-of-msgid>" away. So, I think some translators would appreciate the diff file, or a list of msgid's from the POT that have had only minor changes. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Wed Mar 14 00:06:55 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:06:55 -0400 Subject: translation theory question In-Reply-To: <45F7370E.7010102@glezos.com> References: <1173816750.4220.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <45F7370E.7010102@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1173830815.3720.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-03-13 at 23:43 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > > I was wondering ... would it be desireable to be able to flag a chunk of > > content as, "Don't retranslate"? > > > > The case I'm thinking of is where a small change in the source language > > fixes punctuation, grammar, or style without affecting the meaning. The > > current translation tools flag that section as fuzzy or untranslated, > > after the change is made. > > > > I can do this manually by diffing the two POT files, finding the changed > > msgid sections, and sending out a note not to bother translating those > > msgids. But that throws off the automagic tools that say how much needs > > to be translated, etc. > > I agree with Paul in general. > > However, if we are talking about the Release Notes in particular (huuuge with > huuuuge strings) then as a translator I think that a diff file would be very useful. > > How? Well, if one large string is added a comma, it becomes fuzzy but this minor > change isn't shown in kbabel (and friends). You can't tell what has changed > since the last version. Instead of reading through the whole paragraph *and* the > translated one (in parallel) (basically, re-translating), it would be more quick > if I had the answer one "Alt-Tab + /<start-of-msgid>" away. > > So, I think some translators would appreciate the diff file, or a list of > msgid's from the POT that have had only minor changes. So, that diff file is automatically created by CVS commits. How about using that to seed the solution for this problem, then? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070313/7e65cf8f/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Wed Mar 14 01:25:40 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 18:25:40 -0700 Subject: translation theory question In-Reply-To: <1173830815.3720.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1173816750.4220.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <45F7370E.7010102@glezos.com> <1173830815.3720.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1173835540.4220.40.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-03-13 at 20:06 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-03-13 at 23:43 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > So, I think some translators would appreciate the diff file, or a list of > > msgid's from the POT that have had only minor changes. > > So, that diff file is automatically created by CVS commits. How abo'tut > using that to seed the solution for this problem, then? Feature request for our new system, then ... ... presuming it sends email alerts of changes in the POT and that it has been automerged with the PO ... ... then we can filter the incoming stream of the SCM diff, looking for special characters as the only change (punctuation), and so forth. Is there any logic or algorithm we can apply to the stream of changes to look for larger meaning changes v. minor corrections (spelling, punctuation, minor grammar)? If not, perhaps part of the WUI gives writers a place to tag a bunch of msgids as having minor changes. Only if the writer did a commit for every change with a keyword (minor, major, etc.) could we get a granular, per-msgid stream of the type of change. However, with a smart editor, you could do this fairly easily (background SCM commit). That's a lot of tools and process to require of writers. We're likely to only get to be so granular. Would that level of detail be useful? Sounds like it. Should we add this somewhere on the "new Web UI wish list"? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070313/7429b2dd/attachment.sig> From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Mar 14 02:01:03 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 02:01:03 +0000 Subject: translation theory question In-Reply-To: <1173835540.4220.40.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1173816750.4220.16.camel@erato.phig.org> <45F7370E.7010102@glezos.com> <1173830815.3720.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1173835540.4220.40.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45F7575F.3080808@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Tue, 2007-03-13 at 20:06 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Tue, 2007-03-13 at 23:43 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >>> So, I think some translators would appreciate the diff file, or a list of >>> msgid's from the POT that have had only minor changes. >> So, that diff file is automatically created by CVS commits. How abo'tut >> using that to seed the solution for this problem, then? > > Feature request for our new system, then ... > > ... presuming it sends email alerts of changes in the POT and that it > has been automerged with the PO ... > > ... then we can filter the incoming stream of the SCM diff, looking for > special characters as the only change (punctuation), and so forth. > > Is there any logic or algorithm we can apply to the stream of changes to > look for larger meaning changes v. minor corrections (spelling, > punctuation, minor grammar)? > > If not, perhaps part of the WUI gives writers a place to tag a bunch of > msgids as having minor changes. I'd say to go with the automatic way. Let's have in mind here that this feature is probably only relevant to the Release Notes. Also, another thing to have in mind is that translators like 100% translations. So, in most cases the above would be useful to sort the file so that important translations are made ASAP. A plan would be to diff and count the character changes for each string and sort the messages in the PO file wrt to the number of diffs. A plus would be a checkbox to enable "smart" diffs (lower the weight of punctuation diffs for example). > Only if the writer did a commit for every change with a keyword (minor, > major, etc.) could we get a granular, per-msgid stream of the type of > change. However, with a smart editor, you could do this fairly easily > (background SCM commit). That's a lot of tools and process to require > of writers. Sounds too much for me. Even the first suggestion is probably a bit too special-purpose. Let's just make one step at a time. If we see we need such a system, we can plug it in the existing one. Definitely sounds like a do-able WUI tool. -d PS: Glad to see some people understand the pain a translator is going through... :) > We're likely to only get to be so granular. > > Would that level of detail be useful? Sounds like it. Should we add > this somewhere on the "new Web UI wish list"? -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From kwade at redhat.com Wed Mar 14 03:29:46 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:29:46 -0700 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 37, Issue 15 In-Reply-To: <1173824608.4155.5.camel@blaa> References: <20070312160032.E34B97338E@hormel.redhat.com> <1173824608.4155.5.camel@blaa> Message-ID: <1173842986.4220.47.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-03-13 at 23:23 +0100, Magnus Glantz wrote: > Karsten, > My Wiki username is: magnusg Magnus, A Wiki username is normally in the form of FirstnameLastname, such as MagnusGlantz. This is a requirement/preference of the Wiki engine, and we don't have any other implementation working. If you'll create a user with the form FirstnameLastname, many of us can add you right away. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070313/a821e048/attachment.sig> From mospina at redhat.com Wed Mar 14 03:57:00 2007 From: mospina at redhat.com (Manuel Ospina) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 13:57:00 +1000 Subject: cvsdocs => cvsl10n in our processes In-Reply-To: <1173816863.4220.21.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1173816863.4220.21.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1173844620.4322.20.camel@dhcp-118.brisbane.redhat.com> Where can I find information about these? is there any wiki page describing this process? Once I get all the necessary information I will update the Translation Quick Start Guide. Manuel El mar, 13-03-2007 a las 13:14 -0700, Karsten Wade escribi?: > We need to quickly update our processes to point translators at the new > group, cvsl10n. > > At the same time, we'll make sure to create a new, straight forward > process for joining the new cvsl10n. For example, we don't need to > require existing project members to reintroduce themselves. We'll > devise a better process. :) > > Heads up to change references in any content you maintain or come > across. For example, we'll need to update, rebuild, and republish the > Translation Quick Start Guide. > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Mar 14 05:02:09 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 05:02:09 +0000 Subject: DocWritersGroup & DocsRawhide In-Reply-To: <1173727295.3935.432.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45F5A31C.2030600@glezos.com> <1173727295.3935.432.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45F781D1.4000702@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Mon, 2007-03-12 at 18:59 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> Do we need the $subject pages? > > DocWritersGroup provides us a group to use for ACLs. > > That supports this scheme on the Wiki: > > wiki/ProjectPages => EditGroup r/w > wiki/Docs/Drafts => DocWritersGroup r/w > wiki/Docs => DocEditorsGroup r/w > > We put that together when we thought we might need more control in > Docs/Drafts/. I no longer hold that opinion personally, but we might > want to use this in the future. I don't know. > > DocsRawhide ... well, we wanted that but haven't revitalized the rawhide > of documentation builds. We can host that elsewhere and link to it > elsewhere, so this interstitial page is probably not needed. Just asking because they reside ouside of Docs/ namespace (in the whole context of the discussion about re-organizing our wiki pages). -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Wed Mar 14 19:29:01 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 20:29:01 +0100 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Self-Introduction_en_fran=E7ais=2E=2E=2E?= Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703141229x78e09823m680cebc24f5d8f14@mail.gmail.com> ** Bonjour ? toutes et ? tous ! Je me permets de me pr?senter car la 'self-presentation' que j'ai envoy?e ? l'?quipe de la documentation il y a quelques jours ?tait ?crite exclusivement en anglais... Toutes mes excuses... * * * *Je me pr?sente... John Charron - Fedora Translation Project* John Charron (fcrhuser) Montpellier, France *Langues maternelles* : anglais et fran?ais *Autre langue pratiqu?e* : italien *Langues sources -> cibles* anglais -> fran?ais fran?ais -> anglais italien -> fran?ais fran?ais -> italien* *Bien que l'italien ne soit pas ma langue maternelle, j'aimerais faire quelques traductions vers l'italien. Ayant un grand nombre de contacts de langue maternelle italienne, la version finale de toute traduction sera relue et corrig?e par une personne de langue maternelle italienne avant d'?tre d?pos?e. *Etudes universitaires * -Doctorat de Musique, Juilliard School, New York (1994) -Ma?trise Sciences du Langage Mention FLE, Universit? Paul Val?ry, Montpellier, France (2002) -Ma?trise Traduction Sp?cialis?e, Universit? Paul Val?ry, Montpellier, France (2006) Ayant utilis? Linux et Fedora depuis relativement peu, je ne sais pas encore quels aspects du projet Fedora Core m'attirent le plus. Quoique la traduction li?e ? mes champs de sp?cialisations m'int?resse (logiciels pour musiciens amateurs ou professionnels, dictionnaires ?lectroniques, la TAO, des applications pour l'apprentissage des langues ?trang?res), je suis un passionn? de l'informatique et j'aimerais aussi traduire des documents ayant un rapport avec des notions plus pointues dans le domaine des nouvelles technologies. En effet, je compte suivre une formation en informatique ? l'IUT ? partir de septembre 2007 et je souhaiterais ? la fois apprendre et contribuer au projet. En plus d'avoir une excellente ma?trise des logiciels classiques - traitement de texte, tableurs, applications multim?dias et outils Internet - et de dactylographier entre 50 ? 60 mots par minute, c'est avec grand plaisir que j'apprends tous les jours de plus en plus ? propos de Linux, la ligne de commande, des scripts et les rudiments de la programmation (C++, Java). J'ai h?te de contribuer au projet de traduction et de participer ? la communaut? Fedora ! John -- John Charron Montpellier, France email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com Volunteer, Fedora Project GPG key: E40B581F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070314/db32c864/attachment.htm> From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Wed Mar 14 20:25:26 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:25:26 +0100 Subject: To the French-speaking members of the documentation/translation team... Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703141325q69615e3bx73d4994a1001e43d@mail.gmail.com> Y a-t-il des francophones parmi vous ? Je viens juste de m'inscrire comme traducteur b?n?vole pour le projet Fedora Core et j'aurais quelques questions ? vous poser... Existe-il des logiciels de type Trados pour Linux ? Y en a-t-il parmi vous certains qui auraient des m?moires Trados disponibles pour la TAO (j'ai acc?s ? Trados, ?a pourrait aider) ? Y a-t-il une liste de diffusion ou une adresse mail sp?cifique pour les francophones travaillant sur le projet de documentation et de traduction ? Est-ce que la langue source des documents ? traduire est toujours l'anglais am?ricain ou est-ce qu'au contraire on rencontre parfois des documents ou des logiciels ?crits d'abord en fran?ais ou en italien (ou en d'autres langues) ? J'aimerais aussi faire du FR -> AN, IT -> FR & Fr -> IT. Puis, je n'ai pas pu traduire un seul document encore car j'ai des probl?mes pour t?l?charger le r?pertoire 'docs'. J'ai envoy? un mail ? i18n ? ce sujet, mais ils n'ont pas pu r?soudre le probl?me encore. C'est assez frustrant car j'ai h?te de commencer, mais je ne peux, pour l'instant, rien faire. Voici ce qui arrive lorsque j'essaie de faire la manip : [linux at localhost ~]$ su - Password: [root at localhost ~]# export declare -x CVS_RSH="ssh" declare -x DISPLAY=":0.0" declare -x G_BROKEN_FILENAMES="1" declare -x HISTSIZE="1000" declare -x HOME="/root" declare -x HOSTNAME=" localhost.localdomain" declare -x INPUTRC="/etc/inputrc" declare -x KDEDIR="/usr" declare -x KDE_IS_PRELINKED="1" declare -x KDE_NO_IPV6="1" declare -x LANG="en_US.UTF-8" declare -x LESSOPEN="|/usr/bin/lesspipe.sh %s" declare -x LOGNAME="root" declare -x LS_COLORS="no=00:fi=00:di=00;34:ln=00;36:pi=40;33:so=00;35:bd=40;33;01:cd=40;33;01:or=01;05;37;41:mi=01;05;37;41:ex=00;32:*.cmd=00;32:*.exe=00;32:*.com=00;32:*.btm=00;32:*.bat=00;32:*.sh=00;32:*.csh=00;32:*.tar=00;31:*.tgz=00;31:*.arj=00;31:*.taz=00;31:*.lzh=00;31:*.zip=00;31:*.z=00;31:*.Z=00;31:*.gz=00;31:*.bz2=00;31:*.bz=00;31:*.tz=00;31:*.rpm=00;31:*.cpio=00;31:*.jpg=00;35:*.gif=00;35:*.bmp=00;35:*.xbm=00;35:*.xpm=00;35:*.png=00;35:*.tif=00;35:" declare -x MAIL="/var/spool/mail/root" declare -x OLDPWD declare -x PATH="/usr/lib/qt-3.3/bin:/usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/root/bin" declare -x PWD="/root" declare -x QTDIR="/usr/lib/qt-3.3" declare -x QTINC="/usr/lib/qt-3.3/include" declare -x QTLIB="/usr/lib/qt-3.3/lib" declare -x SHELL="/bin/bash" declare -x SHLVL="1" declare -x SSH_ASKPASS="/usr/libexec/openssh/gnome-ssh-askpass" declare -x TERM="xterm" declare -x USER="root" declare -x XAUTHORITY="/root/.xauthbygGuo" [root at localhost ~]# CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs [root at localhost ~]# cvs co -c cvs checkout: No CVSROOT specified! Please use the `-d' option cvs [checkout aborted]: or set the CVSROOT environment variable. [root at localhost ~]# Est-ce que quelqu'un voit d'o? pourrait provenir le probl?me ? Merci d'avance, John -- John Charron Montpellier, France email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com Volunteer/B?n?vole, Fedora Project GPG key: E40B581F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070314/37154881/attachment.htm> From xavier.lamien at fedoraproject.org Wed Mar 14 21:08:57 2007 From: xavier.lamien at fedoraproject.org (Xavier Lamien) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:08:57 -0400 Subject: To the French-speaking members of the documentation/translation team... In-Reply-To: <a7a7eb0b0703141325q69615e3bx73d4994a1001e43d@mail.gmail.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703141325q69615e3bx73d4994a1001e43d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62bc09df0703141408o2d5a33b1l20bb3104fd1d0e29@mail.gmail.com> Le 14/03/07, John Charron <fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com> a ?crit : > > Y a-t-il des francophones parmi vous ? > > Je viens juste de m'inscrire comme traducteur b?n?vole pour le projet > Fedora Core et j'aurais quelques questions ? vous poser... > > Existe-il des logiciels de type Trados pour Linux ? > > Y en a-t-il parmi vous certains qui auraient des m?moires Trados > disponibles pour la TAO (j'ai acc?s ? Trados, ?a pourrait aider) ? > > Y a-t-il une liste de diffusion ou une adresse mail sp?cifique pour les > francophones travaillant sur le projet de documentation et de traduction ? > > Est-ce que la langue source des documents ? traduire est toujours > l'anglais am?ricain ou est-ce qu'au contraire on rencontre parfois des > documents ou des logiciels ?crits d'abord en fran?ais ou en italien (ou en > d'autres langues) ? J'aimerais aussi faire du FR -> AN, IT -> FR & Fr -> IT. > > > Puis, je n'ai pas pu traduire un seul document encore car j'ai des > probl?mes pour t?l?charger le r?pertoire 'docs'. J'ai envoy? un mail ? i18n > ? ce sujet, mais ils n'ont pas pu r?soudre le probl?me encore. C'est assez > frustrant car j'ai h?te de commencer, mais je ne peux, pour l'instant, rien > faire. Voici ce qui arrive lorsque j'essaie de faire la manip : > > [linux at localhost ~]$ su - > Password: > [root at localhost ~]# export > declare -x CVS_RSH="ssh" > declare -x DISPLAY=":0.0" > declare -x G_BROKEN_FILENAMES="1" > declare -x HISTSIZE="1000" > declare -x HOME="/root" > declare -x HOSTNAME=" localhost.localdomain" > declare -x INPUTRC="/etc/inputrc" > declare -x KDEDIR="/usr" > declare -x KDE_IS_PRELINKED="1" > declare -x KDE_NO_IPV6="1" > declare -x LANG="en_US.UTF-8" > declare -x LESSOPEN="|/usr/bin/lesspipe.sh %s" > declare -x LOGNAME="root" > declare -x > LS_COLORS="no=00:fi=00:di=00;34:ln=00;36:pi=40;33:so=00;35:bd=40;33;01:cd=40;33;01:or=01;05;37;41:mi=01;05;37;41:ex=00;32:*.cmd=00;32:*.exe=00;32:*.com=00;32:*.btm=00;32:*.bat=00;32:*.sh=00;32:*.csh=00;32:*.tar=00;31:*.tgz=00;31:*.arj=00;31:*.taz=00;31:*.lzh=00;31:*.zip=00;31:*.z=00;31:*.Z=00;31:*.gz=00;31:*.bz2=00;31:*.bz=00;31:*.tz=00;31:*.rpm=00;31:*.cpio=00;31:*.jpg=00;35:*.gif=00;35:*.bmp=00;35:*.xbm=00;35:*.xpm=00;35:*.png=00;35:*.tif=00;35:" > > declare -x MAIL="/var/spool/mail/root" > declare -x OLDPWD > declare -x PATH="/usr/lib/qt-3.3/bin:/usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/root/bin" > > declare -x PWD="/root" > declare -x QTDIR="/usr/lib/qt-3.3" > declare -x QTINC="/usr/lib/qt-3.3/include" > declare -x QTLIB="/usr/lib/qt-3.3/lib" > declare -x SHELL="/bin/bash" > declare -x SHLVL="1" > declare -x SSH_ASKPASS="/usr/libexec/openssh/gnome-ssh-askpass" > declare -x TERM="xterm" > declare -x USER="root" > declare -x XAUTHORITY="/root/.xauthbygGuo" > [root at localhost ~]# CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs > [root at localhost ~]# cvs co -c > cvs checkout: No CVSROOT specified! Please use the `-d' option > cvs [checkout aborted]: or set the CVSROOT environment variable. > [root at localhost ~]# > > Est-ce que quelqu'un voit d'o? pourrait provenir le probl?me ? > > Merci d'avance, > > John > > -- > John Charron > Montpellier, France > email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com > msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com > Volunteer/B?n?vole, Fedora Project > GPG key: E40B581F > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Salut et Bienvenu ? toi John. pour ton probl?me, il te faut exporter ta variable. $ export CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs Sans quoi elle ne pourra ?tre d?fini. Tu peux aussi, si tu le souhaite cr?er un alias pour ?viter ? taper ? chaque fois cette longue commande. -- Xavier.t Lamien -- French Fedora Ambassador Fedora Extras Contributor GPG-Key ID: F3903DEB Fingerprint: 0F2A 7A17 0F1B 82EE FCBF 1F51 76B7 A28D F390 3DEB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070314/a9a14ab2/attachment.htm> From xavier.lamien at fedoraproject.org Wed Mar 14 21:17:11 2007 From: xavier.lamien at fedoraproject.org (Xavier Lamien) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 17:17:11 -0400 Subject: To the French-speaking members of the documentation/translation team... In-Reply-To: <a7a7eb0b0703141325q69615e3bx73d4994a1001e43d@mail.gmail.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703141325q69615e3bx73d4994a1001e43d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <62bc09df0703141417v6180b049n8bf1569020d7ef27@mail.gmail.com> Le 14/03/07, John Charron <fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com> a ?crit : > > Y a-t-il des francophones parmi vous ? Bien sur, et on est nombreux. website: fedora-fr.org irc: #feodra-fr #fedora-devel-fr #fedora-mktg-fr (pour les meetings) tous cela sur irc.freenodes. Je viens juste de m'inscrire comme traducteur b?n?vole pour le projet Fedora > Core et j'aurais quelques questions ? vous poser... > > Existe-il des logiciels de type Trados pour Linux ? oui, malheureusement, je ne m'en rappel plus. Y en a-t-il parmi vous certains qui auraient des m?moires Trados disponibles > pour la TAO (j'ai acc?s ? Trados, ?a pourrait aider) ? > > Y a-t-il une liste de diffusion ou une adresse mail sp?cifique pour les > francophones travaillant sur le projet de documentation et de traduction ? fedora-trans-fr at redhat.com Est-ce que la langue source des documents ? traduire est toujours l'anglais > am?ricain ou est-ce qu'au contraire on rencontre parfois des documents ou > des logiciels ?crits d'abord en fran?ais ou en italien (ou en d'autres > langues) ? J'aimerais aussi faire du FR -> AN, IT -> FR & Fr -> IT. Cela peut arriv? mais, g?n?ralement c'est de l'anglais. Puis, je n'ai pas pu traduire un seul document encore car j'ai des probl?mes > pour t?l?charger le r?pertoire 'docs'. J'ai envoy? un mail ? i18n ? ce > sujet, mais ils n'ont pas pu r?soudre le probl?me encore. C'est assez > frustrant car j'ai h?te de commencer, mais je ne peux, pour l'instant, rien > faire. Voici ce qui arrive lorsque j'essaie de faire la manip : > > [linux at localhost ~]$ su - > Password: > [root at localhost ~]# export > declare -x CVS_RSH="ssh" > declare -x DISPLAY=":0.0" > declare -x G_BROKEN_FILENAMES="1" > declare -x HISTSIZE="1000" > declare -x HOME="/root" > declare -x HOSTNAME=" localhost.localdomain" > declare -x INPUTRC="/etc/inputrc" > declare -x KDEDIR="/usr" > declare -x KDE_IS_PRELINKED="1" > declare -x KDE_NO_IPV6="1" > declare -x LANG="en_US.UTF-8" > declare -x LESSOPEN="|/usr/bin/lesspipe.sh %s" > declare -x LOGNAME="root" > declare -x > LS_COLORS="no=00:fi=00:di=00;34:ln=00;36:pi=40;33:so=00;35:bd=40;33;01:cd=40;33;01:or=01;05;37;41:mi=01;05;37;41:ex=00;32:*.cmd=00;32:*.exe=00;32:*.com=00;32:*.btm=00;32:*.bat=00;32:*.sh=00;32:*.csh=00;32:*.tar=00;31:*.tgz=00;31:*.arj=00;31:*.taz=00;31:*.lzh=00;31:*.zip=00;31:*.z=00;31:*.Z=00;31:*.gz=00;31:*.bz2=00;31:*.bz=00;31:*.tz=00;31:*.rpm=00;31:*.cpio=00;31:*.jpg=00;35:*.gif=00;35:*.bmp=00;35:*.xbm=00;35:*.xpm=00;35:*.png=00;35:*.tif=00;35:" > > declare -x MAIL="/var/spool/mail/root" > declare -x OLDPWD > declare -x PATH="/usr/lib/qt-3.3/bin:/usr/kerberos/sbin:/usr/kerberos/bin:/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin:/root/bin" > > declare -x PWD="/root" > declare -x QTDIR="/usr/lib/qt-3.3" > declare -x QTINC="/usr/lib/qt-3.3/include" > declare -x QTLIB="/usr/lib/qt-3.3/lib" > declare -x SHELL="/bin/bash" > declare -x SHLVL="1" > declare -x SSH_ASKPASS="/usr/libexec/openssh/gnome-ssh-askpass" > declare -x TERM="xterm" > declare -x USER="root" > declare -x XAUTHORITY="/root/.xauthbygGuo" > [root at localhost ~]# CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs > [root at localhost ~]# cvs co -c > cvs checkout: No CVSROOT specified! Please use the `-d' option > cvs [checkout aborted]: or set the CVSROOT environment variable. > [root at localhost ~]# > > Est-ce que quelqu'un voit d'o? pourrait provenir le probl?me ? d?j? r?pondu plus haut.... ^^ Merci d'avance, > > John > > -- > John Charron > Montpellier, France > email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com > msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com > Volunteer/B?n?vole, Fedora Project > GPG key: E40B581F > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Xavier.t Lamien -- French Fedora Ambassador Fedora Extras Contributor GPG-Key ID: F3903DEB Fingerprint: 0F2A 7A17 0F1B 82EE FCBF 1F51 76B7 A28D F390 3DEB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070314/9bb838b7/attachment.htm> From kwade at redhat.com Wed Mar 14 23:14:50 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 16:14:50 -0700 Subject: To the French-speaking members of the documentation/translation team... In-Reply-To: <62bc09df0703141417v6180b049n8bf1569020d7ef27@mail.gmail.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703141325q69615e3bx73d4994a1001e43d@mail.gmail.com> <62bc09df0703141417v6180b049n8bf1569020d7ef27@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1173914090.23924.59.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 17:17 -0400, Xavier Lamien wrote: > > website: fedora-fr.org fedora-fr.org++ John - have you seen? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation#TranslatingDocumentsIntoEnglish Are you interested in grammatical and semi-technical editing and translation of content the fedora-fr.org team wants to submit into this project? A writing-editing team needs to be formed to make it work. Note that the content needs to be dual-licensed (or re-licensed) to the OPL[1]. The author also needs to let us know if Fedora Documentation is the new upstream (host the content, etc.) or is going to become a downstream (reuser of the content.) - Karsten [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Licensing/FAQ http://www.opencontent.org/openpub -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070314/8a52e428/attachment.sig> From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Mar 15 02:08:58 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 21:08:58 -0500 Subject: Web GUI Message-ID: <45F8AABA.90700@redhat.com> For good or bad its here. I'm keeping it semi-enabled. What do you guys think? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MikeMcGrath?action=edit&editor=gui Basically append &editor=gui to whatever your editing. -Mike From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Fri Mar 16 09:36:25 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:36:25 +0100 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Still_can=27t_download_the_=27docs=27_directory_/?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_Pbm_de_t=E9l=E9chargement_=3A_r=E9pertoire_=27docs?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=27?= Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703160236m33d678e9m3c72d1d979bbff27@mail.gmail.com> Hi all! I still can't download that 'docs' directory: / Bonjour ? tous ! Je n'arrive toujours pas ? t?l?charger le r?pertoire 'docs' : [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs bash: export: `:/cvs/docs': not a valid identifier [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=:ext:username at cvs.fedoraproject.org :/cvs/docs [linux at localhost ~]$ cvs co -c The authenticity of host 'cvs.fedoraproject.org (209.132.176.51)' can't be established. RSA key fingerprint is dd:0d:f1:d6:e2:f6:39:cf:ca:6b:03:28:8d:84:3a:d5. Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? y Please type 'yes' or 'no': yes Warning: Permanently added 'cvs.fedoraproject.org,209.132.176.51' (RSA) to the list of known hosts. Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any) [linux at localhost ~]$ su -c 'yum install gnome-doc-utils xmlto make' Password: Loading "installonlyn" plugin Setting up Install Process Setting up repositories livna 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 core 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 updates 100% |=========================| 1.2 kB 00:00 extras 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB 00:00 Reading repository metadata in from local files primary.xml.gz 100% |=========================| 119 kB 00:00 livna : ################################################## 423/423 primary.xml.gz 100% |=========================| 526 kB 00:03 updates : ################################################## 1213/1213 primary.xml.gz 100% |=========================| 1.4 MB 00:02 extras : ################################################## 4529/4529 Parsing package install arguments Nothing to do [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=:ext:username at cvs.fedoraproject.org :/cvs/docs [linux at localhost ~]$ cvs co -c Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if any) [linux at localhost ~]$ su - Password: [root at localhost ~]# cvs co -c cvs checkout: No CVSROOT specified! Please use the `-d' option cvs [checkout aborted]: or set the CVSROOT environment variable. [root at localhost ~]# cvs co -d cvs checkout: No CVSROOT specified! Please use the `-d' option cvs [checkout aborted]: or set the CVSROOT environment variable. [root at localhost ~]# Ughhh!! What's wrong! / Que faut-il faire ? I'd appreciate a helping hand here... / Merci d'avance, John On 15/03/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 17:17 -0400, Xavier Lamien wrote: > > > > > website: fedora-fr.org > > fedora-fr.org++ > > John - have you seen? > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation#TranslatingDocumentsIntoEnglish > > Are you interested in grammatical and semi-technical editing and > translation of content the fedora-fr.org team wants to submit into this > project? A writing-editing team needs to be formed to make it work. > > Note that the content needs to be dual-licensed (or re-licensed) to the > OPL[1]. The author also needs to let us know if Fedora Documentation is > the new upstream (host the content, etc.) or is going to become a > downstream (reuser of the content.) > > - Karsten > [1] > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Licensing/FAQ > http://www.opencontent.org/openpub > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- John Charron Montpellier, France email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com Volunteer/B?n?vole, Fedora Project GPG key: E40B581F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070316/4c1a47ad/attachment.htm> From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Fri Mar 16 09:56:57 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 10:56:57 +0100 Subject: P.S. (fr_FR webpage) Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703160256h1d64067fy2d0d327588af3893@mail.gmail.com> P.S. - According to the information on this webpage, nothing has been translated yet. Is this correct?http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status?page=status&locale=fr_FR&branch=HEAD&essential=0 On 16/03/07, John Charron <fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com> wrote: > > Hi all! I still can't download that 'docs' directory: / Bonjour ? tous ! > Je n'arrive toujours pas ? t?l?charger le r?pertoire 'docs' : > > [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs > bash: export: `:/cvs/docs': not a valid identifier > [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=: ext:username at cvs.fedoraproject.org > :/cvs/docs > [linux at localhost ~]$ cvs co -c > The authenticity of host 'cvs.fedoraproject.org (209.132.176.51 )' can't > be established. > RSA key fingerprint is dd:0d:f1:d6:e2:f6:39:cf:ca:6b:03:28:8d:84:3a:d5. > Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? y > Please type 'yes' or 'no': yes > Warning: Permanently added 'cvs.fedoraproject.org,209.132.176.51' (RSA) to > the list of known hosts. > Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). > cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if > any) > [linux at localhost ~]$ su -c 'yum install gnome-doc-utils xmlto make' > Password: > Loading "installonlyn" plugin > Setting up Install Process > Setting up repositories > livna 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB > 00:00 > core 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB > 00:00 > updates 100% |=========================| 1.2 kB > 00:00 > extras 100% |=========================| 1.1 kB > 00:00 > Reading repository metadata in from local files > primary.xml.gz 100% |=========================| 119 kB > 00:00 > livna : ################################################## 423/423 > primary.xml.gz 100% |=========================| 526 kB > 00:03 > updates : ################################################## 1213/1213 > primary.xml.gz 100% |=========================| 1.4 MB > 00:02 > extras : ################################################## 4529/4529 > Parsing package install arguments > Nothing to do > [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=:ext:username at cvs.fedoraproject.org > :/cvs/docs > [linux at localhost ~]$ cvs co -c > Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). > cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages if > any) > [linux at localhost ~]$ su - > Password: > [root at localhost ~]# cvs co -c > cvs checkout: No CVSROOT specified! Please use the `-d' option > cvs [checkout aborted]: or set the CVSROOT environment variable. > [root at localhost ~]# cvs co -d > cvs checkout: No CVSROOT specified! Please use the `-d' option > cvs [checkout aborted]: or set the CVSROOT environment variable. > [root at localhost ~]# > > Ughhh!! What's wrong! / Que faut-il faire ? > > I'd appreciate a helping hand here... / Merci d'avance, > > John > > > > -- John Charron Montpellier, France email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com Volunteer/B?n?vole, Fedora Project GPG key: E40B581F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070316/a66dc3b8/attachment.htm> From couf at skynet.be Fri Mar 16 13:22:55 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 14:22:55 +0100 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Still_can=27t_download_the_=27docs=27_direc?= =?iso-8859-1?q?tory_/_Pbm_de_t=E9l=E9chargement_=3A_r=E9pertoire_=27docs?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=27?= In-Reply-To: <a7a7eb0b0703160236m33d678e9m3c72d1d979bbff27@mail.gmail.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703160236m33d678e9m3c72d1d979bbff27@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45FA9A2F.3000706@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 John Charron schreef: > Hi all! I still can't download that 'docs' directory: / Bonjour ? tous ! > Je n'arrive toujours pas ? t?l?charger le r?pertoire 'docs' : > > [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org > <mailto:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org> :/cvs/docs > bash: export: `:/cvs/docs': not a valid identifier > [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=: > ext:username at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs > [linux at localhost ~]$ cvs co -c > The authenticity of host 'cvs.fedoraproject.org > <http://cvs.fedoraproject.org> (209.132.176.51 <http://209.132.176.51>)' > can't be established. > RSA key fingerprint is dd:0d:f1:d6:e2:f6:39:cf:ca:6b:03:28:8d:84:3a:d5. > Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? y > Please type 'yes' or 'no': yes > Warning: Permanently added 'cvs.fedoraproject.org > <http://cvs.fedoraproject.org>,209.132.176.51 <http://209.132.176.51>' > (RSA) to the list of known hosts. > Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). > cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages > if any) [snip] And what happens when you run: export CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs export CVS_RSH=ssh cvs co -c It looks like your cvs isn't tunneling with ssh, that's why you need the export CVS_RSH=ssh bit. Bart - -- Bart <couf at fedoraproject.org> <couf at skynet.be> key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF+pokrbZrKtk/D5MRAhypAJ4tV3owiYb+iOkxLdSoNrv7VL/IBgCfYarF mcMCO5tYOYfomlJ1eYiDaSo= =sAtL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From thomas.canniot at laposte.net Fri Mar 16 15:06:17 2007 From: thomas.canniot at laposte.net (Thomas Canniot) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 16:06:17 +0100 Subject: P.S. (fr_FR webpage) In-Reply-To: <a7a7eb0b0703160256h1d64067fy2d0d327588af3893@mail.gmail.com> References: <a7a7eb0b0703160256h1d64067fy2d0d327588af3893@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1174057577.4475.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> Le vendredi 16 mars 2007 ? 10:56 +0100, John Charron a ?crit : > P.S. - According to the information on this webpage, nothing has been > translated yet. Is this > correct?http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status?page=status&locale=fr_FR&branch=HEAD&essential=0 No. Look at this link : http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status?page=status&locale=fr&branch=HEAD&essential=0 Thomas -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070316/c8abaca8/attachment.sig> From develop5 at datawiz.co.th Fri Mar 16 22:21:48 2007 From: develop5 at datawiz.co.th (Pittayakom Sa-ingtong) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 22:21:48 +0000 Subject: Thai Documents Message-ID: <20070316152148.2A662C4C1CF@dwizhosting.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070316/d7553e8d/attachment.htm> From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Mar 17 04:06:52 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 04:06:52 +0000 Subject: Docs translations In-Reply-To: <1173315170.3935.42.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45EF3EA1.50203@glezos.com> <1173315170.3935.42.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45FB695C.8060800@glezos.com> O/H Karsten Wade ??????: > On Wed, 2007-03-07 at 22:37 +0000, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> Hey all. >> >> Today we had a lengthy discussion on IRC about the way we should handle >> translations in Fedora. The plan is basically to move applications (and their PO >> files) that are being developed on elvis (a RH server) over to >> 'cvs.fedoraproject.org'. It seems that this will not happen before the F7 release. >> >> We have already created a CVS group 'cvsl10n' and all translators will be asked >> to open Fedora accounts and will be added to this group. >> >> As a Docs project, we have the choice *not* to wait for F7 and migrate the >> translation process right away. The 'fp.org -> i18n -> fp' process for PO files >> is tedious for quaid and stickster. This means that translations for Docs will >> happen in the Docs repository, which is much easier for translators (as long as >> they have a Fedora account). >> >> If there is no objection, we can apply the 'cvsl10n' ACLs on the po directory >> right away and test the translator's access. The L10n team will try its best to >> make sure we get as much translations as possible, even if our po files will be >> hosted on a different SCM than the rest of the Fedora apps. >> >> Comments? > > +1 Done and tested: Members of the 'cvsl10n' group now have read-write access in `/cvs/docs/*/po/` but read-only access in the rest of the Docs dirs. I believe it would be good if we give translators a list of recommendations on what to translate and the priority of that translation. For example, `homepage` is of very high priority (highly visible, small), one should translate the PO inside the `devel` directory but also FC-6 (and notify us if we really need to push an update) and it would be OK to do it now because it will get very few changes before the release. These are a lot of information for each of our docs, but I think such a page with detailed information for all our Docs would be highly beneficial for all. The only page related to what I mention is '/wiki/Docs'. Here's a list of things we might want to consider listing for each of our Docs: * Name * Short name * Target audience * Maintained at * Published at Translation-specifics: * Exposure / priority * Need to translate also non-devel branch? (ie, will it be republished?) * Start translating at * Stop translating at Do you think this is unnecessary, not rational? Comments? I've also prepared a very quick page for new translators, over at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Join Please make any corrections & suggestions before we announce it. did-you-know-that Q of the day ------------------------------ Did you know that... ...probably more than 2500 people have contributed translations to the Fedora Project? People with access on Fedora CVS are about 1200. -d > Many translators have made the move to get a Fedora account already. We > risk losing a few people who might have translated through elvis/i18n > CVS, but IMO it is a low risk. We also may gain some translators > because of the publicity or the move-toward-fedoraproject.org (which > matters to some people.) > > We have agreement to completely migrate off elvis when F7 is out, so the > translators are doing themselves a favor to get a FAS account now. > > - Karsten > -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Sat Mar 17 08:51:05 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 09:51:05 +0100 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Re=3A_Still_can=27t_download_the_=27docs=27_direc?= =?iso-8859-1?q?tory_/_Pbm_de_t=E9l=E9chargement_=3A_r=E9pertoire_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=27docs=27?= In-Reply-To: <45FA9A2F.3000706@skynet.be> References: <a7a7eb0b0703160236m33d678e9m3c72d1d979bbff27@mail.gmail.com> <45FA9A2F.3000706@skynet.be> Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703170151n7dd373e9j1d0f08d381ecf256@mail.gmail.com> Bart, Bingo! Everthing works now. I'm getting closer and closer to actually translating something (lol)! I don't have time to have a look at what I've downloaded, but will do as soon as I can. Many thanks, John On 16/03/07, Bart Couvreur <couf at skynet.be> wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > John Charron schreef: > > Hi all! I still can't download that 'docs' directory: / Bonjour ? tous ! > > Je n'arrive toujours pas ? t?l?charger le r?pertoire 'docs' : > > > > [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org > > <mailto:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org> :/cvs/docs > > bash: export: `:/cvs/docs': not a valid identifier > > [linux at localhost ~]$ export CVSROOT=: > > ext:username at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs > > [linux at localhost ~]$ cvs co -c > > The authenticity of host 'cvs.fedoraproject.org > > <http://cvs.fedoraproject.org> (209.132.176.51 <http://209.132.176.51>)' > > can't be established. > > RSA key fingerprint is dd:0d:f1:d6:e2:f6:39:cf:ca:6b:03:28:8d:84:3a:d5. > > Are you sure you want to continue connecting (yes/no)? y > > Please type 'yes' or 'no': yes > > Warning: Permanently added 'cvs.fedoraproject.org > > <http://cvs.fedoraproject.org>,209.132.176.51 <http://209.132.176.51>' > > (RSA) to the list of known hosts. > > Permission denied (publickey,keyboard-interactive). > > cvs [checkout aborted]: end of file from server (consult above messages > > if any) > [snip] > > And what happens when you run: > export CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs > export CVS_RSH=ssh > cvs co -c > > It looks like your cvs isn't tunneling with ssh, that's why you need the > export CVS_RSH=ssh bit. > > Bart > > - -- > Bart <couf at fedoraproject.org> <couf at skynet.be> > key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFF+pokrbZrKtk/D5MRAhypAJ4tV3owiYb+iOkxLdSoNrv7VL/IBgCfYarF > mcMCO5tYOYfomlJ1eYiDaSo= > =sAtL > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- John Charron Montpellier, France email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com Volunteer/B?n?vole, Fedora Project GPG key: E40B581F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070317/c04ae175/attachment.htm> From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Sat Mar 17 08:56:53 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 09:56:53 +0100 Subject: Traduction de documentation Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703170156u48176a3flcbfa6b6f02050dfa@mail.gmail.com> Thomas, Merci pour ton mail. Tout marche bien maintenant, gr?ce ? Bart : export CVSROOT=:ext:fcrhuser at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs > export CVS_RSH=ssh > cvs co -c Merci quand m?me. John On 16/03/07, Thomas Canniot <thomas.canniot at laposte.net> wrote: > > Le vendredi 16 mars 2007 ? 10:56 +0100, John Charron a ?crit : > > P.S. - According to the information on this webpage, nothing has been > > translated yet. Is this > > > correct?http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status?page=status&locale=fr_FR&branch=HEAD&essential=0 > > No. > > Look at this link : > > > http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status?page=status&locale=fr&branch=HEAD&essential=0 > > Thomas > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- John Charron Montpellier, France email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com Volunteer/B?n?vole, Fedora Project GPG key: E40B581F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070317/d5112e48/attachment.htm> From mg at hacka.net Sat Mar 17 13:28:36 2007 From: mg at hacka.net (Magnus Glantz) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 14:28:36 +0100 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <20070314160032.056777335A@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20070314160032.056777335A@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1174138116.3764.6.camel@blaa> Karsten, Ooops, the username is 'Magnus Glantz', it was my alias that was 'magnusg' (which has now aswell been changed to 'Magnus Glantz'). :-) BG, //M > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2007 20:29:46 -0700 > From: Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> > Subject: Re: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 37, Issue 15 > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Message-ID: <1173842986.4220.47.camel at erato.phig.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > On Tue, 2007-03-13 at 23:23 +0100, Magnus Glantz wrote: > > Karsten, > > > My Wiki username is: magnusg > > Magnus, > > A Wiki username is normally in the form of FirstnameLastname, such as > MagnusGlantz. This is a requirement/preference of the Wiki engine, and > we don't have any other implementation working. If you'll create a user > with the form FirstnameLastname, many of us can add you right away. > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > -------------- next part -------------- From kwade at redhat.com Sat Mar 17 18:12:01 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2007 11:12:01 -0700 Subject: moving to docs.fedoraproject.org Message-ID: <1174155121.18755.89.camel@erato.phig.org> We are in the process of moving our documentation publishing to http://docs.fedoraproject.org. To start, it is going to mirror what was formerly at fedora.redhat.com/docs. For the next few days/until the end of the coming week, publishing (such as new translations like the Installation Guide in Polish) is going to be ... sporadic. In a few days we'll ask for everyone to help us find Web site bugs and make things flow better. thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070317/5b909f60/attachment.sig> From dimitris at glezos.com Sun Mar 18 03:16:27 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 03:16:27 +0000 Subject: Meeting 18/3 16:00 Message-ID: <45FCAF0B.40002@glezos.com> Reminding everyone for tomorrow's meeting, 16:00 UTC (12:00 Eastern). Meeting agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingAgenda -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From mohamedimran.kr at gmail.com Sun Mar 18 05:16:14 2007 From: mohamedimran.kr at gmail.com (Mohamed Imran K R) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 10:46:14 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction Message-ID: <45FCCB1E.2060404@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi I am Mohamed Imran from Chennai, India. I have used RH and fedora as far as my professional computing experience goes. I have complete faith in the abilities of Fedora as i have used the same in many deployments. Fedora has given me lots of freedom and choice and i want to contribute something back, initially in the form of documentation. Hope we could elevate Fedora into a higher trajectory. Regards, Mohamed Imran K R AU-KBC Research Center pub 1024D/7A039813 2007-03-11 Key fingerprint = CD40 3983 C441 B3FD 4187 F4AE B8C3 D733 7A03 9813 uid Mohamed Imran K R (AU-KBC) <mohamedimran.kr at gmail.com> sub 1024g/DB3B0940 2007-03-11 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF/MsduMPXM3oDmBMRAm1oAJ9yXjC3EGaBdZfrKSVSlxXJbMwnbQCggQ4S ECBo0jdCxhRaaY5yoG6yysk= =2JBF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From nihedmm at gmail.com Sun Mar 18 07:17:04 2007 From: nihedmm at gmail.com (nihed mbarek) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 08:17:04 +0100 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <45FCCB1E.2060404@gmail.com> References: <45FCCB1E.2060404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <5bddd8fd0703180017y32895e7tc3e2654fbf16d812@mail.gmail.com> Welcome mohamed :) 2007/3/18, Mohamed Imran K R <mohamedimran.kr at gmail.com>: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi > I am Mohamed Imran from Chennai, India. I have used RH and fedora as > far as my professional computing experience goes. I have complete faith > in the abilities of Fedora as i have used the same in many deployments. > Fedora has given me lots of freedom and choice and i want to > contribute something back, initially in the form of documentation. > Hope we could elevate Fedora into a higher trajectory. > > Regards, > Mohamed Imran K R > AU-KBC Research Center > > pub 1024D/7A039813 2007-03-11 > Key fingerprint = CD40 3983 C441 B3FD 4187 F4AE B8C3 D733 7A03 9813 > uid Mohamed Imran K R (AU-KBC) <mohamedimran.kr at gmail.com > > > sub 1024g/DB3B0940 2007-03-11 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFF/MsduMPXM3oDmBMRAm1oAJ9yXjC3EGaBdZfrKSVSlxXJbMwnbQCggQ4S > ECBo0jdCxhRaaY5yoG6yysk= > =2JBF > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- M'BAREK Med Nihed, Fedora Ambassador, TUNISIA, Northern Africa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070318/ef37d868/attachment.htm> From fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com Sun Mar 18 08:53:55 2007 From: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com (John Charron) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 09:53:55 +0100 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <5bddd8fd0703180017y32895e7tc3e2654fbf16d812@mail.gmail.com> References: <45FCCB1E.2060404@gmail.com> <5bddd8fd0703180017y32895e7tc3e2654fbf16d812@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <a7a7eb0b0703180153w9d958b9x5b021829481d9b79@mail.gmail.com> Welcome aboard Mohamed! John On 18/03/07, nihed mbarek <nihedmm at gmail.com> wrote: > > Welcome mohamed :) > > 2007/3/18, Mohamed Imran K R <mohamedimran.kr at gmail.com>: > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Hi > > I am Mohamed Imran from Chennai, India. I have used RH and fedora as > > far as my professional computing experience goes. I have complete faith > > in the abilities of Fedora as i have used the same in many deployments. > > Fedora has given me lots of freedom and choice and i want to > > contribute something back, initially in the form of documentation. > > Hope we could elevate Fedora into a higher trajectory. > > > > Regards, > > Mohamed Imran K R > > AU-KBC Research Center > > > > pub 1024D/7A039813 2007-03-11 > > Key fingerprint = CD40 3983 C441 B3FD 4187 F4AE B8C3 D733 7A03 > > 9813 > > uid Mohamed Imran K R (AU-KBC) <mohamedimran.kr at gmail.com > > > > > sub 1024g/DB3B0940 2007-03-11 > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > > > iD8DBQFF/MsduMPXM3oDmBMRAm1oAJ9yXjC3EGaBdZfrKSVSlxXJbMwnbQCggQ4S > > ECBo0jdCxhRaaY5yoG6yysk= > > =2JBF > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > > > > -- > M'BAREK Med Nihed, > Fedora Ambassador, TUNISIA, Northern Africa > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- John Charron Montpellier, France email: fedora.redhat.user at gmail.com msn: fcrhuser at hotmail.com Volunteer/B?n?vole, Fedora Project GPG key: E40B581F -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070318/f62c00ab/attachment.htm> From kwade at redhat.com Sun Mar 18 17:49:28 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 10:49:28 -0700 Subject: IRC log FDSCo 18-Mar-2007 (summary to follow separately) Message-ID: <1174240168.18755.112.camel@erato.phig.org> SSIA 09:01 < quaid> <meeting> 09:01 < quaid> Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingAgenda 09:01 < quaid> :) 09:02 < stickster> Good $TIMEOFDAY, everyone 09:02 < stickster> First up: GSoC 09:02 < quaid> lots of new energy there this week :) 09:03 < couf> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode 09:03 < quaid> yep 09:03 < glezos> Quoting from 2 hours ago: 09:03 < glezos> KillerX I'm interested in applying for the docbook to PDF converter project :) 09:03 * quaid saw that confab 09:03 < stickster> Yup, may have a sucker^Wtaker 09:03 < glezos> KillerX So I'll whip up a proposal and get back to you then 09:03 < quaid> well, yeah, rather than back to us, its really, back to the proposal process via code.google.com 09:04 < glezos> quaid, how about crafting a proposal for L10N WUI? 09:04 < glezos> mmcgrath also thought it would be a good idea 09:04 < quaid> ok, but same question I have about timing. 09:04 < quaid> August seems pretty late 09:04 * quaid looks at Releases/8/Schedule 09:04 < stickster> Here's KillerX's web site: http://anant.wordpress.com/ 09:05 < quaid> see, the problem is ... 09:05 < quaid> if you go 6 mon. forward from current string freeze (which is tomorrow) 09:05 < quaid> that makes string freeze Sep. 09:05 < quaid> that is awfully close, isn't it? 09:06 < glezos> quaid, well, we can start with a WUI for statistics (fairly easy) and stage 2 could be the remotely-hosted-PO-thing 09:06 < stickster> quaid: We could raise that with RelEng and craft a time buffer into the next cycle 09:06 < stickster> Slips happen, and all 09:06 < couf> time buffer++ 09:07 < glezos> Do we have any other stuff we'd like to craft as GSoC proposals? 09:07 * stickster notes that string freeze will likely be Tuesday instead 09:07 < couf> so we've got 3 bounties which have something to do with docs 09:08 < glezos> For example, say, a Web frontend for DocBook+CVS in Python? 09:08 < glezos> Ie. port of http://doc-book.sourceforge.net/homepage/ to Python 09:08 < glezos> just throwing ideas here 09:08 * quaid doesn't want to port that one, but knows what you mean 09:08 < couf> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties is the place 09:08 < quaid> yes, it is the place 09:09 < stickster> Once again, I think that hiding that in Plone code would be ideal 09:09 < stickster> Once again, I think that having Plone folks would be ideal++ 09:09 < glezos> stickster, well, port to Python/Plone then 09:09 < couf> aye Plone++ 09:09 < stickster> heh 09:10 * stickster still thinks we need some expert opinion on using ReST/docutils for easy writing and better portability to DocBook 09:10 < glezos> There are 800 positions for students.. I guess crafting proposals that will not certainly be used by us doesn't hurt that much 09:11 < stickster> Wow, that's a load of positions 09:12 < stickster> OK, so glezos, you want to draft a proposal then? Is there any time left for the students to see it and apply by deadline? 09:12 < stickster> < 1 week? 09:12 < quaid> six days 09:12 < quaid> I need to do the same for the Plone install 09:12 < quaid> does that count as a student project? 09:12 < glezos> dunno.. I could write one I guess 09:12 < stickster> Hmm 09:12 < quaid> i.e., there isn't much code in a Plone install 09:13 < stickster> right 09:13 < stickster> Plone module for interaction with SCM/DocBook though... 09:13 < stickster> Whether using ReST go-between or not... 09:13 < quaid> mspevack_out threw up a request for Plone help internally, and the best so far is a team that just wrangled an install, but they seem to be offering "answers to questions" v. actual task-doing. 09:14 < stickster> understood 09:14 < glezos> quaid, maybe dubbing it "Make Plone a publishing platform" and include stuff like the one stickster just mentioned 09:14 < quaid> ah, plone module, ok 09:14 < stickster> If you asked me what the scope of that work is, I couldn't begin to tell you. 09:15 < stickster> I want to get myself to some Plone training but don't see it happening any time soon. 09:15 < EvilBob> Morning All 09:15 < EvilBob> Sorry I over slept 09:16 < couf> we should get a Plone.org guy doing a GSoC for us :) 09:16 < stickster> Hi Bob 09:16 < EvilBob> GSoC, damaestro is interested in doing one 09:16 < couf> alas, the deadline is very very soon 09:16 < stickster> OK, before we get too off-track, maybe we should set the action items for this and move on 09:16 < EvilBob> A plone item would be right up his alley 09:17 < quaid> ok 09:17 < quaid> that might do it 09:17 < quaid> I'll write up the plone thing 09:17 < stickster> suggestion: Notify Anant to let him know where to send proposal 09:17 < quaid> glezos if you can post up a first pass at the l10n wui 09:18 < glezos> quaid, I think you have a clearer idea for it.. :) 09:18 < quaid> how did KillerX find us here and not find the Google page? 09:18 < glezos> I can expand on it 09:18 < quaid> glezos: oh :) 09:18 < quaid> ok 09:18 < stickster> no idea :-D 09:18 < quaid> I'll put up first passes at both, then 09:18 < glezos> quaid, thanks. 09:18 < couf> ok, who's mentoring or wants to help mentoring? 09:19 < glezos> I can mentor for L10N WUI 09:19 < quaid> looks like anant.wordpress.org has links to SoC site already, I reckon we don't need to contact him wit hthat 09:19 < couf> glezos: /me can co-mentor on that one 09:20 < glezos> how can we make sure the applicants indeed take it seriously and will walk it through? 09:20 < couf> basicly the money does it all :) 09:20 < stickster> quaid: Good point, /me needs to read more 09:21 < couf> anyone want to take the PDF conversion? 09:22 < stickster> I can't commit for any mentoring this summer, my schedule is more than spoken for at this point :-\ 09:22 < stickster> I'm happy to drop in and advise ad-hoc anytime though 09:22 < quaid> hmm 09:22 < stickster> "asst. mentor" 09:22 < quaid> I was looking to step back a bit and give others a chance to mentor 09:23 < quaid> maybe we can co-mentor on the Plone one and I'll catch all the slack 09:24 < stickster> Guys, we need to get quaid out of doing every task. I wish I could do more but I can't commit more time until probably around July. 09:24 < EvilBob> I am willing to co-mentor however It would not be right to Mentor Damaestro because of our other working relationship 09:24 < stickster> Oh, do you employ him on the side? Like $$$? 09:24 < stickster> or maybe just 1 $ :-D 09:24 < glezos> is there no chance any older FDSCo members to help out? 09:25 < quaid> we'll have to ask 09:25 < EvilBob> stickster: something like that 09:25 < quaid> we can proceed and work out the mentoring as we go, too 09:25 < couf> sure 09:25 < EvilBob> stickster: he is a resource in my business I will put it that way 09:25 < stickster> I see 09:26 < couf> Shall we move on? 09:26 < quaid> k 09:26 < glezos> I should mention that mmcgrath might be interested in co-mentoring the L10N WUI too (the multi-repository thing anyway). 09:27 < glezos> docs.fedoraproject.org 09:27 < glezos> quaid, any comments/updates? 09:28 -!- hers [n=chatzill at 222.248.201.228] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.2/0000000000]"] 09:28 < quaid> you know ... 09:28 < stickster> Hmm, mmcgrath as mentor -- great way to ensure things are Done Right 09:28 < stickster> s/mentor/co-mentor/ 09:29 < quaid> I'm unclear, sorry, if when we tag LIVE in CVS which site it is going to 09:29 < quaid> I've asked mmcgrath but I haven't noticed his response :) 09:29 < stickster> quaid: I haven't tried it lately to see 09:29 < quaid> we need the LIVE tagging to affect docs.fp.o now 09:30 < quaid> so we can reorganize that side 09:30 < couf> iirc, it's still only going to f.r.c 09:30 < stickster> Does Mike know where that CVS=>Web glue is on f.r.c? 09:30 * quaid posted a change last week, looks 09:30 < quaid> he does 09:31 < glezos> I know it's pretty late, but I'd like once more to raise the issue of doing it under fp.org/docs/ 09:31 < quaid> ok, that change went to fr.c 09:31 < quaid> glezos: FI said it would be easier to handle a sub-domain 09:31 < quaid> and we want one URL, right? 09:31 < stickster> yup 09:31 < quaid> and there is an existing trend in the project to use name.fp.org 09:31 < couf> +1 09:32 < quaid> hosted.fp.org, cvs.fp.o, git.fp.org, etc. 09:32 < stickster> quaid: What was your change? 09:32 < stickster> nm 09:33 < quaid> http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/developers-guide/s1-ui-gnome-guidelines.html 09:33 < glezos> if plone comes, it will be under fp.org/. If we then decide to integrate docs in there, we'd do it at fp.org/docs/, right? 09:33 < quaid> wrapped HIG citetitle with a url 09:33 < quaid> glezos: nope 09:33 < quaid> glezos: that is our choice, right? 09:33 < glezos> quaid, ok.. I'm just trying to make sure we won't have to make redirects in the future. 09:34 < quaid> well, we likely want to redirect from /docs 09:34 < glezos> ok. 09:34 < couf> with Plone we could have fp.org/docs which collects links to docs.fp.org 09:34 < quaid> let's put it this way ... 09:34 < quaid> we can still debate this, if we want 09:34 < quaid> I'm not locked in anything 09:34 < quaid> and yes this is the best/last chance, I think 09:35 < stickster> But if FI has reasons why they want it docs.fp.o, argue it there 09:35 < quaid> mike said we can do it any way we want, but the sub-dmain was "easier" or "better" I disrecall which 09:35 < quaid> but it is up to us what we want 09:35 < stickster> I haven't observed us really caring one way or the other, so we yield to FI 09:36 < stickster> As long as Google leads readers to the good stuff 09:36 < glezos> quaid, I don't have a preference. Only to not have to change it in the future. 09:36 < stickster> We shouldn't have to, I would think. 09:36 < stickster> mod_rewrite makes everything OK, yes? 09:37 < glezos> stickster, well.. not exactly. Cookies might have a problem for subdomains for example. 09:37 < stickster> That only depends on our giving them out properly, though, right? 09:37 < glezos> My only reservation is that subdomains are usually totally separate systems or software. They serve completely different functionality. But sure, with mod_rewrites you can get it all done. 09:37 < EvilBob> ! 09:37 < stickster> Again, this is for an FI argument. As a Doc'er, I totally don't care. 09:38 < glezos> OK, let's move on. I don't want to delay discussions. I will talk it up with mmcgrath to make sure. 09:38 < EvilBob> I would suggest our plone work happen under fp.o 09:38 < EvilBob> use docs.fp.o for published xml results 09:39 < quaid> yet docs.fp.o is going to be a plone front-end 09:39 < quaid> that is, it will be a virtual folder or something, right? 09:39 < glezos> quaid, no idea. 09:40 < EvilBob> I would think that d.fp.o would be static only 09:40 < stickster> I disagree, I see GNOME using subdomains for working projects 09:40 < stickster> And they're using Plone AIUI 09:41 * glezos is OK with both ways. 09:42 < glezos> shall we move on? 09:42 < quaid> EvilBob: I think static is orthogonal in this case; yes static output, but it should be put in that location by plone via workflow 09:42 < quaid> well 09:42 < quaid> I guess I'm not done 09:42 < stickster> heh 09:42 < quaid> I want to get a "litmus test" here 09:42 < quaid> Red Hat IS 'recommends' that we just redirect from f.r.c/* to fp.org and let people find what they want from there 09:43 < quaid> this is because they maintain a >1000 line set of redirects around redhat.com and say it is crazy-making 09:43 < quaid> so, mmcgrath and I discussed and we recommend a mod_rewrite rule 09:43 < quaid> that will preserve the post / content and let us parse it on the Fedora side (so no hassle to RH IS any more) 09:44 < glezos> quaid, sounds rational. 09:44 < quaid> so, this is still in negotiation, afaict; since we don't get to tell them what to do but only ask, we can't be sure how things are going to land. 09:44 < quaid> so there is a chance it will be the first 09:44 < quaid> that is, all redirect to front page, start googlejuice from scratch, etc. 09:44 < EvilBob> NOTE: there are issues when using multiple domains and subdomains in plone 09:44 < quaid> my assumption is that this is bad from a user experience, but I want to hear from ya'll 09:45 < quaid> EvilBob: what about subdomains in one domain/. 09:45 < quaid> ? 09:45 < EvilBob> that is what I was trying to make clear and failed 09:45 < quaid> EvilBob: meaning, subs in one domain should be OK, but across multiple domains is crazy? 09:45 < EvilBob> quaid: each (sub)domain requires a swperate plone instance 09:46 < EvilBob> errr instance is the wrong word 09:46 < EvilBob> testing.fu.o is not the same plone site as fu.o for example 09:47 < stickster> Can't it be, if you mod_rewrite from Apache as the front end? 09:47 < glezos> Unfortunately, it is not uncommon for a software system to choke with subdomains.. That's why usually they are intended for different systems (bugzilla, cvs-frontend, web content). Heck, even web designers have problems (grabbing images with relative paths) 09:47 < EvilBob> each and every one of the unity sites are separate 09:48 < glezos> We can further discuss this on the mailing list CCed with -infrastructure. 09:49 < quaid> how a bout just on f-i-l? 09:49 < stickster> glezos++ 09:49 < glezos> quaid, ok 09:49 < stickster> Oops, I'm not on f-i-l 09:49 < quaid> since it's really a technical issue 09:49 < EvilBob> we have hacked together a system that shares the user accounts but the content is completely separate and you need to login when changing name space 09:49 < quaid> stickster: :D 09:49 < quaid> EvilBob: ok, great point, thanks 09:49 * stickster refuses to join another mailing list until he drops at least two 09:49 < stickster> :-d 09:49 < stickster> :-d 09:49 < quaid> stickster: i've got some suggestions ... :D 09:49 < stickster> aw, hell with it 09:49 < stickster> heh 09:49 < stickster> awright, trans update 09:50 < quaid> is that me? 09:50 * quaid guesses so 09:51 < couf> hmm no it's glezos :) 09:51 < quaid> oh, good 09:51 < quaid> except I guess I have something to report to him :) 09:51 < couf> then go on :) 09:51 < glezos> um 09:51 < glezos> well, I tried GNOME's Damned Lies interface 09:51 < quaid> on Friday i talked with mmcgrath and poelcat (John Poelstra); poelcat is now looking into the feasibility of him being a facilitator within Red hat for those parts 09:52 < glezos> Which seems to have future. I contacted it's maintainer and he said he's willing to help out in porting (it's already well written and supoprts modules etc) 09:52 < quaid> meaning we'd need to PM the Fedora side ourselves 09:52 < glezos> The second part of L10N WUI that quaid and I are thinking is make it possible to serve remotely-hosted POs (ie act as a SCM client) 09:53 < glezos> See: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/RFR/L10nCVSandUI 09:53 * EvilBob is away (phone) 09:53 < glezos> Sonar_Gal, if we find a student to investigate these two for GSoC we'd be perfect. 09:53 < couf> poor Sonar_Gal 09:53 < glezos> agr. So, So, *So* 09:54 < glezos> We could also write them as two different proposals, right? 09:55 < stickster> 11 min/me reads 09:55 < stickster> oops, I mean: 09:55 < stickster> me reads 09:56 < quaid> from what I was reporting, a different twist has come up that I think we should address/decide upon 09:56 < quaid> but I'm unclear if it is ours to decide :) 09:56 < quaid> so maybe a step back ... 09:56 < quaid> do we feel we have enough representation from all the involved communities? 09:56 < quaid> to form a short-term SIG so we can vote/decide on stuff. 09:57 < stickster> having couf and glezos here helps, but we should probably reach out for some more input, yes 09:57 < quaid> in that I don't think this is really FDSCo's to decide ... 09:57 < couf> hmm, good question, sig++ both involvment: not that much imo 09:57 < quaid> ok, so here is the ponderable ... 09:57 < couf> s/both/but 09:57 < quaid> poelcat is checking on a possible resource offer from the group that 'owns' elvis.rh.c internally 09:58 < quaid> not knowing yet what that means ... I want to figure out what parameters we have for accepting such help/. 09:58 < quaid> for example, here are two ways I could see help coming: 09:58 < quaid> i. Help comes to work within the community on a joint solution; sharing of resources; Fedora/RHEL model, etc. 09:59 < quaid> ii. Help comes to "fix" problems in elvis.rh.c, and keeps all their work and processes internal until they are ready for us to start testing externally 09:59 < quaid> would we want help in both of those cases? or only in i)? 09:59 < stickster> only i. 09:59 < couf> only i 10:00 < quaid> I share this feeling :) 10:00 < quaid> but ... 10:00 < quaid> the problem is I don't speak the 100+ languages of our trans community 10:00 < glezos> quaid, I'm for i too, and AFAICT, mspevack shares this opinion. 10:00 < quaid> and what if 80% of them want "big Daddy Red hat" to take care of this for them, and they don't care 10:01 < glezos> (ie bring Fedora-affected systems & processes to the community space) 10:01 < couf> hmm, I'm noticing a change of attitude towards this on the trans-list, people are stepping up 10:01 < quaid> I'm concerned that we are acting from a perceived opinion, that is, we perceive that the rest of the l10n community shares our opinion, when we can't directly know that because of lang and cultural differences 10:01 < couf> and are feeling things have to change 10:01 < glezos> quaid, I'll make that clear enough: 99% of the L10N community does translations for Fedora, not RHEL. 10:02 < quaid> yes, but does "vocal" == "majority"? 10:02 < quaid> glezos: :) 10:02 < couf> quaid: fair enough 10:02 < stickster> We want to avoid disenfranchising folks, especially since it could affect overall Fedora l10n 10:03 < stickster> But FOSS has always been about taking ownership/responsibility for doing things 10:03 < quaid> ok 10:03 < glezos> stickster, certainly. But we need to be able to do our jobs. We want to do much more than what elvis can provide and we are willing to do them quickly. 10:03 < stickster> We could take a better quality, lower drag poll, I suppose 10:03 < couf> the big problem is that not everyone is on the list, and looks at it 10:03 < quaid> right 10:03 < stickster> If people don't have to write an email to the list, we may get more responses. 10:03 < stickster> sure, there's that as ewll. 10:03 < stickster> s/ewll/well/ 10:03 < quaid> and the thing is ... the translators who work for RH are on many sub-lists and they could tell us, but what would they tell us? 10:04 * EvilBob is off the phone 10:04 < EvilBob> I need to run, buddy is broke down.... 10:04 < quaid> ok, I guess the point is not really moot 10:04 < quaid> EvilBob: cheers 10:04 < glezos> My goal for L10N WUI is for it to support upstream translations. If this works, then RH could use it for any project it likes. 10:04 < quaid> in that Fedora leadership doesn't want systems that happen behind doors for us to "benefit" from 10:05 < quaid> we have taken the lesser-quality-for-now because it is open stance 10:05 < quaid> glezos: +1 we could do this the right way, for sure 10:05 < stickster> We can attract more interest and participation by simply starting the gears turning 10:05 < quaid> ok, I just wanted to be sure we all agreed oon this direction, and my thinking was sound. 10:06 * stickster wants to make sure someone keeps in the back of their head that we would like to connect this, as well, to Plone in the far-flung future if at all possible 10:06 < glezos> Ideally, this shift towards the community space will benefit all of us. So, I see the best thing would be for RH L10N team to help materialize our vision, just like the Merge. 10:06 < quaid> glezos: I saw you wondering about "does scml10n need to sign the GPG" and I can't see any way around it 10:06 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarstenWade/Drafts/CLAAcceptanceHierarchies#preview 10:06 < stickster> glezos: Right. The reason that has worked out so well is that people Just Did It. 10:06 < quaid> the proposal there is clear -- once in SCM, the risk is higher, etc. 10:07 < stickster> Extras is the biggest success story in Fedora 10:07 < couf> yeah certainly CLA for cvsl10n 10:07 < quaid> note that ... Fedora didn't do the best internal marketing job around the mere 10:07 < stickster> quaid: CLA++ 10:07 < quaid> merge 10:07 < glezos> quaid, right now they don't have to sign the CLA for i18n.redhat.com. 10:07 < quaid> and we are trying to avoid stepping in that bear trap 10:07 < quaid> glezos: yes, I know; they should have; IMNSHO that was a big mistake 10:07 < stickster> quaid: I'm not so sure that it was a bad job... but I don't see the internal lists. ;-) 10:07 < couf> glezos: CLA was concieved after i18n 10:08 < quaid> we are shipping lots of content we don't have a clear right to use, unless there is something in i18n I don't get 10:08 < stickster> There hasn't been much public grumbling, and what there was of it was mostly due to misunderstandings and people entrenching for no good reason. 10:08 < glezos> quaid, there is an alternative. Give the option through the WUI for a person to submit a translation and the language maintainer has to approve/commit it. 10:08 < quaid> glezos: sure 10:08 < quaid> glezos: that's like the Wiki model 10:08 < couf> QA is realy needed 10:09 < quaid> they still need to agree to something when submitting that is essentially the CLA :) 10:09 < quaid> that is, the WikiLicense is really the CLA + OPL 10:09 < glezos> OK. Once we have a prototype WUI we can figure more complex stuff then. 10:09 < stickster> This all comes back to the click-through, waiting on Legal. 10:09 < quaid> I think it is a big mistake to ever debate if a contribution "should" be under the CLA 10:10 < quaid> when an Ambassador makes a speach, it's a contribution, needs to be covered, etc. 10:10 < quaid> stickster: working on that one :) 10:10 < quaid> my "PlainEnglishCLA" did offend, which I was afraid of :), and got justly shot-down 10:10 < glezos> quaid, let's just say that the actual committer takes responsibility for the submitted contributions. I think these are slightly minor issues. 10:10 < stickster> Careful with extending the license agreement to vocal speech 10:10 * quaid had called it "HumanSpeakCLA" but changed that to not offend the lawyers 10:11 < glezos> lol 10:11 < quaid> glezos: good point, like bugzilla; minor point 10:11 < stickster> I think you'd find a lot of trouble in that. If it's a written presentation that's held somewhere or committed to paper, sure... but speech is not generally licensed :-) 10:11 < quaid> stickster: yes, I mean, written and put on wiki 10:11 < quaid> or whatever 10:11 < stickster> heh 10:11 < stickster> ok, +1 that 10:11 < quaid> I just mean, don't try to classify what is or is not a contribution 10:11 < couf> :) 10:12 < stickster> right 10:12 < quaid> rather classify what is the risk in taking that contribution 10:12 < stickster> If it goes in, it has to be covered, period. 10:12 < stickster> If we hold on to it, it has to be covered. 10:12 < quaid> and applyu CLA difficulties by risk levels 10:12 < quaid> submit via bugzilla or ml as a patch, low risk, etc. 10:12 < quaid> ok, we've beaten on this one enough? 10:13 < glezos> guess so 10:13 < quaid> I'll let you know what poelcat says 10:13 < quaid> but we're essentially on our own on the Fedora side 10:13 < couf> yay 10:13 < quaid> and we're seeking clarity on what "don't break our system" means so we can achieve or reject that 10:14 < stickster> OK, so back to agenda then... wiki reorg ==> couf 10:14 < stickster> yes? 10:14 < couf> all right 10:14 < couf> everyone has seen it, and approved right? 10:15 < couf> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-March/msg00039.html 10:16 < stickster> Yes, with comments as posted earlier 10:16 < couf> I'm just looking for the best way to get this started 10:16 * quaid admits to not having dived into that one 10:16 < couf> i) get an wiki from FI (RFR) 10:16 < glezos> couf, write a wiki page with the structure as bullets? 10:17 < couf> ii) personal wiki-userspace 10:17 < couf> iii) just dive in 10:17 < glezos> I'd vote for iii) 10:17 < stickster> iii) 10:18 < quaid> fine with me 10:18 < stickster> couf: See how much you can do by only reorganizing, and cutting, pages 10:18 < stickster> Rather than writing *more* 10:18 < couf> right on, I'm planning on doing this in the next two weeks 10:18 < couf> stickster: I'm going for less rather than more 10:19 < stickster> We can always hand-craft later as needed 10:19 < quaid> yes, odds are, what we need is there, and needs to be trimmed and combined 10:19 < stickster> hoo-rah 10:20 < stickster> couf: Anything else you need before starting? 10:20 < couf> hmm, not really, I'm gonna setup a template this week 10:20 < quaid> ref. Docs/Drafts => DocsProject/Drafts ... I think we want to keep those in Docs/ because we want people to 'beta test' them 10:21 < stickster> Yeah, I think someone mentioned that on the list... hmmm, lemmesee 10:21 < couf> yeah I got that one :) 10:21 < quaid> ok, good 10:21 * quaid missed that, just read through the thread 10:21 < stickster> coo' 10:21 < quaid> otherwise it sounds great to me, and I'll help wherever I can as we proceed 10:22 * stickster notes, moving up on 90 minutes, meeting red alert! 10:22 < couf> okay guys, in two weeks the project-wiki will be totaly different :) 10:22 < couf> cool 10:22 < couf> let's move on then :) 10:22 < stickster> OK, PDF 10:22 < couf> Last item on list is PDF 10:23 < glezos> next subject: PDF guides. Should we bother going after them *now* or wait for F7 to make them through the tolchain? 10:23 < stickster> I would rather do this right (and leverage GSoC) than do it twice 10:24 < glezos> stickster, we could get F7 IG in PDF with cups-pdf with a couple of clicks.. 10:24 * stickster has yet to see a stunning argument for PDF production other than allowing people to print something prettier than HTML, which isn't necessarily in our interests... 10:24 * glezos thinks PDFs will increase the popularity of our Docs 10:24 < stickster> We can allow users to do this now with a print CSS and save the trouble 10:25 < glezos> people just save it on their Desktops for future reference for example... 10:25 < stickster> In the web includes: "Print me!" 10:25 < stickster> For future reference when? After they install? 10:25 < stickster> We want people to come back for the latest version 10:25 < quaid> it's all about different styles 10:25 < stickster> yeah, I'm not opposed to PDF at all, just for the record 10:25 < quaid> enough people like the PDF style for a guide, but honestly its hard to tell how much it matters 10:26 < glezos> I guess people just don't know that some HTML is very nicely printable 10:26 < stickster> I just think having to keep up with republishing manually is dreary 10:26 < stickster> glezos: the "Print Me" button can take care of that. 10:26 < couf> right, we should just have the "print me" link on the page and let users do it 10:27 * stickster has printed several articles from RHM for example, to distribute to bosses and peers 10:27 < quaid> that would be worth rebuilding docs for, yes 10:27 < stickster> Well, the print me button should appear courtesy of SSI's and not in our publishing process, IYAM 10:27 < quaid> since some of them aren't even buildable but need porting to the new Makefile/tools 10:28 < couf> and if anyone comes up with *the* solution to PDF production, we'll handle it then 10:28 < glezos> anyway. just thinking that people do like PDFs, not sure for what reasons though... probably the self-packed one-file-contains-everything idea 10:28 < stickster> Oh I see, you mean, "Wow, I'd even fix <XYZ> doc if it got that button slapped on it" 10:29 < stickster> For our *real* PDF's, I really want an actual to-die-for style, including stylish page markings and sidebars from admonitions. 10:29 < couf> stickster++ 10:29 < glezos> stickster+++ 10:29 * couf has to bail 10:29 < glezos> we've even found a name for the style... to-die-for.xsl 10:30 < couf> see ya (buffer rolling) 10:30 -!- couf is now known as couf_away 10:30 < stickster> heh 10:30 < stickster> bye couf 10:31 < glezos> Haven't received any emails on this: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-March/msg00139.html 10:31 < quaid> so, can we do the SSI version? 10:31 < stickster> quaid: that depends on how we publish to docs.fp.o 10:31 < quaid> stickster: today it is the same as f.r.c 10:31 < stickster> Right now, there's bare PHP sitting up there with nothing backing it up 10:31 < quaid> and is likely to stay that way for a while 10:32 < stickster> So we certainly can move the includes there as well, and restyle if necessary 10:32 < stickster> Is PHP running on that host? And is it likely to? 10:32 < stickster> (if not) 10:33 < stickster> glezos: Give it a couple days, weekend work is sketchy 10:33 < quaid> I don't know how he has it set up 10:33 < stickster> me neither 10:33 < quaid> well, presumably like before 10:34 < quaid> PHP builds static pages on the backend 10:34 < quaid> I can include the SSI wherever we want 10:34 < stickster> Yeah, I think we need the images up there too 10:34 < stickster> And the CSS for now, so we can monkey with it 10:35 < stickster> Wait... where will we access all that? 10:35 < quaid> via cvs 10:35 < stickster> Oh, I guess if he just hooks those in from the Web module in CVS the same way, should be fine 10:35 < stickster> jinx 10:35 < quaid> yep, and I'm ready to reorganize to chop out all the non-docs from the Nav 10:35 < stickster> OK, may have just missed those pieces then 10:35 < stickster> I can help too 10:35 < quaid> cool 10:36 < stickster> The "Print Me" shouldn't be too hard 10:36 < quaid> let's first get the word that pub of LIVE is on docs.fp.o, which it appears it is not 10:36 < stickster> We'll add a publishing bit for html-nochunks to fit into, that would be the best printable I would think 10:36 < glezos> CSS can do very neat things.. unfortunately not everything, but OK. 10:37 < mmcgrath> quaid: I'll set that up today (the whole live publish) 10:38 < glezos> should we publish the meeting log? Or probably trancuate it leaving only the TODO stuff (as reminders for next week)? 10:39 < stickster> Marvelous Mike makes a miraculous meeting materialization! 10:39 < quaid> mmcgrath: ok, I was just emailing f-i-l 10:39 * quaid cancels that 10:39 < quaid> glezos: both; full log with summary above 10:41 < quaid> </meeting> -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070318/80eda6eb/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Sun Mar 18 17:51:30 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 10:51:30 -0700 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 37, Issue 17 In-Reply-To: <1174138116.3764.6.camel@blaa> References: <20070314160032.056777335A@hormel.redhat.com> <1174138116.3764.6.camel@blaa> Message-ID: <1174240290.18755.115.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-03-17 at 14:28 +0100, Magnus Glantz wrote: > Karsten, > > Ooops, the username is 'Magnus Glantz', it was my alias that was > 'magnusg' (which has now aswell been changed to 'Magnus Glantz'). Done, you are now in EditGroup. Happy Wiki-ing! - Karsten, King of Necessary Evils -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070318/7ca6a798/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Sun Mar 18 17:54:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 10:54:22 -0700 Subject: Web GUI In-Reply-To: <45F8AABA.90700@redhat.com> References: <45F8AABA.90700@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1174240462.18755.119.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 21:08 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > For good or bad its here. I'm keeping it semi-enabled. What do you > guys think? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MikeMcGrath?action=edit&editor=gui > > Basically append &editor=gui to whatever your editing. OK, that's great, as long as it makes matching (1:1) markup to what is done by hand. We may need to update some styles we use if we can't get a GUI editor to do things the same. Some markup styles are due to our manual output for XML, so those could change either way. The #!rst is just a code block, right? Not a call to use ReST? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070318/8d94c9a0/attachment.sig> From mmcgrath at redhat.com Sun Mar 18 20:42:25 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2007 15:42:25 -0500 Subject: Web GUI In-Reply-To: <1174240462.18755.119.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <45F8AABA.90700@redhat.com> <1174240462.18755.119.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <45FDA431.4060104@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-03-14 at 21:08 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> For good or bad its here. I'm keeping it semi-enabled. What do you >> guys think? >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MikeMcGrath?action=edit&editor=gui >> >> Basically append &editor=gui to whatever your editing. >> > > OK, that's great, as long as it makes matching (1:1) markup to what is > done by hand. We may need to update some styles we use if we can't get > a GUI editor to do things the same. Some markup styles are due to our > manual output for XML, so those could change either way. > I have noticed some funkiness with using the gui editor. Take a look at the main landing page. > The #!rst is just a code block, right? Not a call to use ReST? > Yeah, you can mix #!rst with normal wiki markup on a page if you want AFAIK. -Mike From ncorrare at fedoraproject.org Mon Mar 19 21:23:30 2007 From: ncorrare at fedoraproject.org (Nicolas Antonio Corrarello) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:23:30 -0300 Subject: Document in need for an editor Message-ID: <45FEFF52.50708@fedoraproject.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello Everyone: Some of us have been working on the document http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/NetworkInstall and I think it is in need for an editor because its becoming really mature. Y.S. Nicolas Corrarello -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF/v9S4UWy+d/Ik+4RAgaBAKCU05K3a3xJVHpmQnBzFXV7oaZOCQCcD0// M4iRfsYjWkUR2PCFZrOxJpk= =1xRV -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Tue Mar 20 01:50:10 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 18:50:10 -0700 Subject: moving to docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <1174155121.18755.89.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1174155121.18755.89.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1174355410.18755.222.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-03-17 at 11:12 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > We are in the process of moving our documentation publishing to > http://docs.fedoraproject.org. Most of this is complete, as of today. We are publishing on that URL in the same was as at fedora.redhat.com/docs. All(?) links in the English-originals on the Wiki are updated, although there are still plain-old fedora.redhat.com links to be found. We have some intelligent redirects happening, so e.g. f.r.c/docs/foo is redirected to docs.fp.o/foo. Let us know any bugs you find. I think Paul is working on fixing some ULINKs in XML-sourced content. I should have most of the HTML (PHP) based content converted. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070319/735db3e6/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Tue Mar 20 02:07:42 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:07:42 -0400 Subject: moving to docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <1174355410.18755.222.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1174155121.18755.89.camel@erato.phig.org> <1174355410.18755.222.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1174356462.28467.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 18:50 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2007-03-17 at 11:12 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > We are in the process of moving our documentation publishing to > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org. > > Most of this is complete, as of today. > > We are publishing on that URL in the same was as at > fedora.redhat.com/docs. All(?) links in the English-originals on the > Wiki are updated, although there are still plain-old fedora.redhat.com > links to be found. > > We have some intelligent redirects happening, so e.g. f.r.c/docs/foo is > redirected to docs.fp.o/foo. > > Let us know any bugs you find. I think Paul is working on fixing some > ULINKs in XML-sourced content. I should have most of the HTML (PHP) > based content converted. With the redirect working, do we gain/lose anything through republishing? Just wondering, before I go hogwild. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070319/95d88dce/attachment.sig> From dimitris at glezos.com Tue Mar 20 02:11:14 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 02:11:14 +0000 Subject: Fedora Bounty for translations Message-ID: <45FF42C2.9040709@glezos.com> Hey all. I just written a proposal for a Google Summer of Code for "an upstream-compatible L10N platform for Fedora". http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties#L10NPlatform Comments? Suggestions? Anyone experienced in Python thinking of taking it? GSoC pays around $4000 (?3000) for each successfully completed project plus $500 that go to the Fedora Project. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Tue Mar 20 02:22:46 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2007 22:22:46 -0400 Subject: DUG Review Message-ID: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> http://distrocenter.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/13/1919208 Contributors to the DUG: 1. Read. 2. Cry/wail/gnash teeth. 3. Ingest. 4. Discuss. 5. Fix. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070319/9a63efc7/attachment.sig> From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Tue Mar 20 11:41:36 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 07:41:36 -0400 Subject: Document in need for an editor In-Reply-To: <45FEFF52.50708@fedoraproject.org> References: <45FEFF52.50708@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1174390896.21526.3.camel@buster.blogdns.net> If no one has picked this request up yet, I would be willing to do it. -Jason On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 18:23 -0300, Nicolas Antonio Corrarello wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello Everyone: > Some of us have been working on the document > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/NetworkInstall and I think it > is in need for an editor because its becoming really mature. > > > Y.S. > Nicolas Corrarello > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFF/v9S4UWy+d/Ik+4RAgaBAKCU05K3a3xJVHpmQnBzFXV7oaZOCQCcD0// > M4iRfsYjWkUR2PCFZrOxJpk= > =1xRV > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070320/d2520c57/attachment.sig> From ncorrare at fedoraproject.org Tue Mar 20 12:46:26 2007 From: ncorrare at fedoraproject.org (Nicolas Antonio Corrarello) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:46:26 -0300 Subject: Document in need for an editor In-Reply-To: <1174390896.21526.3.camel@buster.blogdns.net> References: <45FEFF52.50708@fedoraproject.org> <1174390896.21526.3.camel@buster.blogdns.net> Message-ID: <45FFD7A2.9050405@fedoraproject.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 OK Jason, let me know if you need anything. I'm the Lead writer but it's already have 2 or 3 contributors (KWade and FabianAffolter) Y.S. nc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF/9ei4UWy+d/Ik+4RAtu8AJ4y7nKGkbvZ9YlgKLg81/GaH/xy5gCfYkYY /rifPA5pQxG4EIyMczjn9Tk= =v3Vt -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ncorrare at fedoraproject.org Tue Mar 20 14:11:42 2007 From: ncorrare at fedoraproject.org (Nicolas Antonio Corrarello) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 11:11:42 -0300 Subject: Network Configuration Message-ID: <45FFEB9E.5060800@fedoraproject.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello Ppl. I was thinking to add to the Desktop user Guide a per provider "Connecting to Internet Chapter" It has to be localized, with each country brand to help starting users. I was thinking to write first a generic guide of: Using PPPOE Using DHCP Using a Fixed IP Address Using Wireless That someone from each country could localise, for example in Argentina: Using PPPOE (For ADSL, like Speedy(TM), Arnet(TM)) Using DHCP (For CableModem(TM), like Fibertel(TM), or Ciudad Internet Flash(TM)) Using a Fixed IP Adress (For you LAN, or major providers, like IPlan(TM), or Telmex(TM) Using Wireless Comments? NC -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFF/+ue4UWy+d/Ik+4RAmXXAJ0W/8Osjpv6YIovGtITBZLTRDnpbQCeJzCU 0NPfkCa5ZT6KwxNiIr4dwac= =8Jux -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Tue Mar 20 16:14:25 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 09:14:25 -0700 Subject: DUG Review In-Reply-To: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1174407265.18755.233.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-03-19 at 22:22 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > http://distrocenter.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/13/1919208 > > Contributors to the DUG: > > 1. Read. > 2. Cry/wail/gnash teeth. > 3. Ingest. > 4. Discuss. > 5. Fix. First observations: * It is a fair review and accurate in its guesses * We feel into traps in the FDUG that are described in the review - Inconsistency - Focus on lists of features instead of what can be done and how to do it * As a first-effort it was good enough to publish * The FDUG has many shining parts, and many other bruises FWIW, we saw many of the problems that the article details before publishing, but we couldn't delay publishing any longer. Fortunately, we now have a review to balance against and make adjustments with. Technical writing is a lot harder in the work of it than many people realize. I'm very glad we got this guide out there and are receiving reviews we can work against. Let's turn this all to our advantage; make big improvements in the F7 version; and carry over the improvements to the Administration Guide. Rock on! - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070320/fb468361/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Tue Mar 20 19:46:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 12:46:22 -0700 Subject: your thoughts on screenshots? Message-ID: <1174419982.18755.273.camel@erato.phig.org> I was explaining something this morning that I thought all could benefit from. I want to convince writers to avoid using screenshots. What do you think of this? Here are the reasons: * They are hard to translate. * They have to be redone every time there is a change in the UI (string or graphical change). - This comes from the rule, "Make certain what you tell/show the reader is 100% accurate to what they see on the screen, or the reader loses trust in you." - Changing text that refers to a UI is *much* easier to fix and translate than the same change in a screenshot. * They take up a lot of space on the screen/on paper. * They don't show anything more than the reader is already looking at in the application on their computer screen. * At most, they confirm for the reader, "Yes, I see the same thing in the documentation as I do on the screen, I am in the right place." This can be done with words alone. * A description of a screen takes up less space than a screenshot. * Since we do not want our documents to be a catalog of what can be done in a UI screen, we're never interested in everything visible to the reader. We're interested in only a subset of what is in the UI. Showing the entire UI in a screenshot is therefore distracting. * A screenshot is not the same as a diagram or other useful graphic. Okay, what are the advantages of using a screenshot? * Useful if the reader cannot read the language of the document; the screen shows them they are in the right place. * Useful if the reader believes they cannot follow a document without screenshots. * Nice for desktop tours, to show what applications look like. * Useful for when you need to define a specific term on the desktop, as in the FDUG where the elements of the desktop are explained with a graphic to show which piece it is. I would like to make this part of our guidelines. What do you all think? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070320/3c6712c2/attachment.sig> From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Tue Mar 20 20:11:44 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 16:11:44 -0400 Subject: your thoughts on screenshots? In-Reply-To: <1174419982.18755.273.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1174419982.18755.273.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1174421505.21526.17.camel@buster.blogdns.net> I agree with the points/arguments made with the caveat that most people are visually oriented types, especially non-technical users. They aren't interested necessarily in reading through a paragraph of text where if they look at a picture with the information they need they are happy. I agree with you but that doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to do, I would personally lean more toward a use them *sparingly*, which is to say, use them only if for some reason you can't concisely describe with text what you are trying to accomplish, and that would be where editing/peer-review comes in? my $.02 -Jason On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 12:46 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > I was explaining something this morning that I thought all could benefit > from. I want to convince writers to avoid using screenshots. What do > you think of this? > > Here are the reasons: > > * They are hard to translate. > > * They have to be redone every time there is a change in the UI (string > or graphical change). > - This comes from the rule, "Make certain what you tell/show the > reader is 100% accurate to what they see on the screen, or the reader > loses trust in you." > - Changing text that refers to a UI is *much* easier to fix and > translate than the same change in a screenshot. > > * They take up a lot of space on the screen/on paper. > > * They don't show anything more than the reader is already looking at in > the application on their computer screen. > > * At most, they confirm for the reader, "Yes, I see the same thing in > the documentation as I do on the screen, I am in the right place." This > can be done with words alone. > > * A description of a screen takes up less space than a screenshot. > > * Since we do not want our documents to be a catalog of what can be done > in a UI screen, we're never interested in everything visible to the > reader. We're interested in only a subset of what is in the UI. > Showing the entire UI in a screenshot is therefore distracting. > > * A screenshot is not the same as a diagram or other useful graphic. > > Okay, what are the advantages of using a screenshot? > > * Useful if the reader cannot read the language of the document; the > screen shows them they are in the right place. > > * Useful if the reader believes they cannot follow a document without > screenshots. > > * Nice for desktop tours, to show what applications look like. > > * Useful for when you need to define a specific term on the desktop, as > in the FDUG where the elements of the desktop are explained with a > graphic to show which piece it is. > > I would like to make this part of our guidelines. What do you all > think? > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070320/17cc3e19/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Tue Mar 20 21:03:15 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:03:15 -0700 Subject: Thai Documents In-Reply-To: <20070316152148.2A662C4C1CF@dwizhosting.com> References: <20070316152148.2A662C4C1CF@dwizhosting.com> Message-ID: <1174424595.18755.280.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 22:21 +0000, Pittayakom Sa-ingtong wrote: > Hi, > I am interesting to translate to Thai Document.Is there others person > to do it? Have you tried fedora-trans-list or other translators of software? Many times that is where translators of documentation come from. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070320/32479331/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Tue Mar 20 21:39:44 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 14:39:44 -0700 Subject: your thoughts on screenshots? In-Reply-To: <1174421505.21526.17.camel@buster.blogdns.net> References: <1174419982.18755.273.camel@erato.phig.org> <1174421505.21526.17.camel@buster.blogdns.net> Message-ID: <1174426784.18755.297.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 16:11 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > I agree with the points/arguments made with the caveat that most people > are visually oriented types, especially non-technical users. They aren't > interested necessarily in reading through a paragraph of text where if > they look at a picture with the information they need they are happy. What you are describing is more like a diagram. Just a plain screenshot is as uninformative as staring at the actual program. Now, if that screenshot is covered in arrows and numbers and such that *provide additional meaning*, then, that is a diagram. :) I agree that a good diagram can replace many lines of text, and do it much better. Diagrams are also a hassle to translate, etc., but they are worth it. If we can keep most of them in SVG format (such as from Inkscape), then translating them is relatively easy (strings can be extracted, translated, and reinserted during rasterizing.) > I agree with you but that doesn't necessarily make it the right thing to > do, I would personally lean more toward a use them *sparingly*, which is > to say, use them only if for some reason you can't concisely describe > with text what you are trying to accomplish, and that would be where > editing/peer-review comes in? Well, yes, in fact, I think that is a good/the common practice. Use sparingly. http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/s1-screenshots.html So, not a blanket rule. A guideline. When tempted to use a screenshot, be sure that it is the best way to convey the information. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070320/f31150d0/attachment.sig> From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Tue Mar 20 22:11:35 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:11:35 -0400 Subject: your thoughts on screenshots? In-Reply-To: <1174426784.18755.297.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1174419982.18755.273.camel@erato.phig.org> <1174421505.21526.17.camel@buster.blogdns.net> <1174426784.18755.297.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1174428695.21526.24.camel@buster.blogdns.net> So the thinking being then, use text whenever possible, if you ge an itch to use a picture, try and use a diagram, if you don't want to or for whatever reason can't use a diagram then use a screenshot with associated text, with the last 2 options being used as sparingly as possible. -Jason On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 14:39 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 16:11 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > > I agree with the points/arguments made with the caveat that most people > > are visually oriented types, especially non-technical users. They aren't > > interested necessarily in reading through a paragraph of text where if > > they look at a picture with the information they need they are happy. > > What you are describing is more like a diagram. > > Just a plain screenshot is as uninformative as staring at the actual > program. > > Now, if that screenshot is covered in arrows and numbers and such that > *provide additional meaning*, then, that is a diagram. :) I agree that > a good diagram can replace many lines of text, and do it much better. Learn something new every day. :) <snipped> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070320/db62aaee/attachment.sig> From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Mar 20 23:47:17 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 05:17:17 +0530 Subject: DUG Review In-Reply-To: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <46007285.9030205@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > http://distrocenter.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/13/1919208 > > Contributors to the DUG: > > 1. Read. > 2. Cry/wail/gnash teeth. > 3. Ingest. > 4. Discuss. > 5. Fix. Want a more spicy "review"? http://beranger.org/index.php?article=2452 Rahul From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Wed Mar 21 00:11:43 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 20:11:43 -0400 Subject: DUG Review In-Reply-To: <46007285.9030205@fedoraproject.org> References: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46007285.9030205@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1174435903.21526.29.camel@buster.blogdns.net> Meh, there is always going to be bias, people use one thing more than another they are more prone to document on it. Granted as a whole we should try and avoid tunnel vision on a particular software package(s) but it is bound to happen to a degree and these docs are still, even after publication as I understand it, living documents. So we fine tune what we have and plan additions etc. and move on just like anything else.. :) -Jason On Wed, 2007-03-21 at 05:17 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > http://distrocenter.linux.com/article.pl?sid=07/03/13/1919208 > > > > Contributors to the DUG: > > > > 1. Read. > > 2. Cry/wail/gnash teeth. > > 3. Ingest. > > 4. Discuss. > > 5. Fix. > > Want a more spicy "review"? > > http://beranger.org/index.php?article=2452 > > Rahul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070320/c028b0cc/attachment.sig> From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Mar 21 00:54:42 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 06:24:42 +0530 Subject: DUG Review In-Reply-To: <200703210001.43673.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> References: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46007285.9030205@fedoraproject.org> <200703210001.43673.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> Message-ID: <46008252.6060607@fedoraproject.org> Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Tue 20 Mar 2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Want a more spicy "review"? >> >> http://beranger.org/index.php?article=2452 > > I complete agree with the complaint in this review > that the DUG is excessively Gnome-centric. > > I asked some time ago about a problem I had > following some instructions in the DUG, > and was told that the assumption was that > the reader was running Gnome rather than KDE. > > It seems to me pretty silly to start by discarding > half (or more) of one's audience. Complaining is only half the part though. The guide is GNOME centric because the volunteers who wrote it preferred to focus on the default environment and applications. If you want to you are welcome to contribute to a KDE specific equivalent. Rahul From tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie Wed Mar 21 01:26:14 2007 From: tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 01:26:14 +0000 Subject: DUG Review References: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46007285.9030205@fedoraproject.org> <200703210001.43673.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <46008252.6060607@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <etq1ji$k4j$1@sea.gmane.org> Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> I asked some time ago about a problem I had >> following some instructions in the DUG, >> and was told that the assumption was that >> the reader was running Gnome rather than KDE. >> >> It seems to me pretty silly to start by discarding >> half (or more) of one's audience. > > Complaining is only half the part though. The guide is GNOME centric > because the volunteers who wrote it preferred to focus on the default > environment and applications. If you want to you are welcome to > contribute to a KDE specific equivalent. As I said before, if the authors assume the reader is running Gnome then it would be more honest to call the document the "Gnome Users Manual". It's actually pretty damaging to Fedora to give the impression that if you prefer KDE you should choose another distribution. I think I am fairly broad-minded, but when I was told that my enquiry was inappropriate because I was running KDE I more or less lost interest in the documentation project - which in my opinion should be the most important aspect of Fedora. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From kwade at redhat.com Wed Mar 21 01:39:36 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:39:36 -0700 Subject: DUG Review In-Reply-To: <etq1ji$k4j$1@sea.gmane.org> References: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46007285.9030205@fedoraproject.org> <200703210001.43673.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <46008252.6060607@fedoraproject.org> <etq1ji$k4j$1@sea.gmane.org> Message-ID: <1174441176.18755.309.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-03-21 at 01:26 +0000, Timothy Murphy wrote: > As I said before, if the authors assume the reader is running Gnome > then it would be more honest to call the document the "Gnome Users Manual". > > It's actually pretty damaging to Fedora to give the impression > that if you prefer KDE you should choose another distribution. > > I think I am fairly broad-minded, but when I was told > that my enquiry was inappropriate because I was running KDE > I more or less lost interest in the documentation project - > which in my opinion should be the most important aspect of Fedora. I think you are presuming a bias toward GNOME, vs. the real situation -- a limit in scope to get this first-time document available. The scope can grow as the people committed to actually writing for it grows. Sorry if that seems like we are marginalizing KDE. I've heard discussions about adding KDE-focused content to make the FDUG more balanced. Myself, I'd prefer us to get a small set of items done very well, then grow it. Every day. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070320/d6c18739/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Wed Mar 21 01:41:53 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2007 18:41:53 -0700 Subject: Network Configuration In-Reply-To: <45FFEB9E.5060800@fedoraproject.org> References: <45FFEB9E.5060800@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1174441313.18755.313.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 11:11 -0300, Nicolas Antonio Corrarello wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hello Ppl. > I was thinking to add to the Desktop user Guide a per provider > "Connecting to Internet Chapter" +1 > It has to be localized, with each country brand to help starting users. Getting into specifying local brands and such choices seems out of scope for the Fedora Project. > That someone from each country could localise, for example in Argentina: Our content is under the OPL, and a perfect reuse would be for a local group to combine it with region-specific information. It seems to me that group would be outside of Fedora, but it could be a LUG or similar group. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070320/7d5ac20b/attachment.sig> From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Mar 21 01:52:54 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 07:22:54 +0530 Subject: DUG Review In-Reply-To: <etq1ji$k4j$1@sea.gmane.org> References: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46007285.9030205@fedoraproject.org> <200703210001.43673.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <46008252.6060607@fedoraproject.org> <etq1ji$k4j$1@sea.gmane.org> Message-ID: <46008FF6.7070501@fedoraproject.org> Timothy Murphy wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >>> I asked some time ago about a problem I had >>> following some instructions in the DUG, >>> and was told that the assumption was that >>> the reader was running Gnome rather than KDE. >>> >>> It seems to me pretty silly to start by discarding >>> half (or more) of one's audience. >> Complaining is only half the part though. The guide is GNOME centric >> because the volunteers who wrote it preferred to focus on the default >> environment and applications. If you want to you are welcome to >> contribute to a KDE specific equivalent. > > As I said before, if the authors assume the reader is running Gnome > then it would be more honest to call the document the "Gnome Users Manual". GNOME users manual would be inappropriate since the guide covers both the default desktop environment for Fedora Core 6 and associated default applications. For example it covers Firefox which not be there in a GNOME user manual. > It's actually pretty damaging to Fedora to give the impression > that if you prefer KDE you should choose another distribution The fact that Fedora includes KDE and that we have many KDE specific applications and a active special interest group having weekly meetings planning on the KDE live CD and spin for Fedora should be sufficient enough for users to understand that they can very well use KDE on Fedora. > I think I am fairly broad-minded, but when I was told > that my enquiry was inappropriate because I was running KDE > I more or less lost interest in the documentation project - > which in my opinion should be the most important aspect of Fedora. Where were you told your enquiry was inappropriate? Can you point me to that? It just appears you are reading things that werent there. Again if you want KDE specific content feel free to contribute. I can guarantee you that it is desirable to do that especially since we will have a KDE specific live CD as well as a spin for Fedora 7 release and you would be welcome to help to create the necessary equivalent content to match that. Rahul From emmanuel.seyman at club-internet.fr Wed Mar 21 09:50:27 2007 From: emmanuel.seyman at club-internet.fr (Emmanuel Seyman) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 10:50:27 +0100 Subject: DUG Review In-Reply-To: <etq1ji$k4j$1@sea.gmane.org> References: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46007285.9030205@fedoraproject.org> <200703210001.43673.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <46008252.6060607@fedoraproject.org> <etq1ji$k4j$1@sea.gmane.org> Message-ID: <20070321095027.GA4293@orient.maison.lan> * Timothy Murphy [21/03/2007 10:25]: > > As I said before, if the authors assume the reader is running Gnome > then it would be more honest to call the document the "Gnome Users Manual". The manual spends a substantial amount of time on Firefox and OpenOffice so I really wouldn't call it a Gnome user's manual. This would just mislead people. Adding a paragraph to the introduction about the fact that the guide describes the default Desktop and that contributors wanting to write about non-default installations will be welcomed with open arms would be nice, though. Emmanuel From stickster at gmail.com Wed Mar 21 12:47:29 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:47:29 -0400 Subject: DUG Review In-Reply-To: <20070321095027.GA4293@orient.maison.lan> References: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <46007285.9030205@fedoraproject.org> <200703210001.43673.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> <46008252.6060607@fedoraproject.org> <etq1ji$k4j$1@sea.gmane.org> <20070321095027.GA4293@orient.maison.lan> Message-ID: <1174481249.5677.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-03-21 at 10:50 +0100, Emmanuel Seyman wrote: > * Timothy Murphy [21/03/2007 10:25]: > > > > As I said before, if the authors assume the reader is running Gnome > > then it would be more honest to call the document the "Gnome Users Manual". > > The manual spends a substantial amount of time on Firefox and OpenOffice > so I really wouldn't call it a Gnome user's manual. This would just mislead > people. > > Adding a paragraph to the introduction about the fact that the guide > describes the default Desktop and that contributors wanting to write > about non-default installations will be welcomed with open arms would > be nice, though. The first part of your suggestion is already there -- but the second part would be good to add, I agree. It is a wiki, please contribute your ideas in the form of an edit! :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070321/ec4b512c/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Wed Mar 21 12:58:31 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 08:58:31 -0400 Subject: your thoughts on screenshots? In-Reply-To: <1174428695.21526.24.camel@buster.blogdns.net> References: <1174419982.18755.273.camel@erato.phig.org> <1174421505.21526.17.camel@buster.blogdns.net> <1174426784.18755.297.camel@erato.phig.org> <1174428695.21526.24.camel@buster.blogdns.net> Message-ID: <1174481911.5677.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-03-20 at 18:11 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > So the thinking being then, use text whenever possible, if you ge an > itch to use a picture, try and use a diagram, if you don't want to or > for whatever reason can't use a diagram then use a screenshot with > associated text, with the last 2 options being used as sparingly as > possible. It's worth pointing out that the Documentation Guide basically says this already -- use text wherever possible. Screenshots are only appropriate where text can't be used to describe something properly. The instruction "Select OK" does not require a screenshot. The instruction "Enter the root password at the dialog" does not require a screenshot. The instruction "Choose desired <dingbats> from the list" does not require a screenshot. A screenshot *may* (repeat, *may*) be appropriate for showing the appearance of a complex user interface. Otherwise it becomes burdensome to the reader to read guidance like "From the top left pane, select one of the options. From the bottom left pane...." -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070321/ee9af900/attachment.sig> From ncorrare at fedoraproject.org Wed Mar 21 14:20:14 2007 From: ncorrare at fedoraproject.org (Nicolas Antonio Corrarello) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2007 11:20:14 -0300 Subject: Novell and Microsoft Message-ID: <46013F1E.80200@fedoraproject.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Lets support Bruce, Richard Stallman, and everyone in the FSF. http://digg.com/linux_unix/Perens_blasts_Microsoft_Novell_protection_racket -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGAT8e4UWy+d/Ik+4RAvqzAJ93kMfdiyHiE2o9+nkIe5hGps1PawCeJ2kO +6NKCLtXHrlJcjar7dVRivY= =wBVJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Mar 22 00:22:09 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 05:52:09 +0530 Subject: DUG Review In-Reply-To: <200703211259.01695.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> References: <1174357366.28467.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <etq1ji$k4j$1@sea.gmane.org> <46008FF6.7070501@fedoraproject.org> <200703211259.01695.tim@birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie> Message-ID: <4601CC31.7060401@fedoraproject.org> Timothy Murphy wrote: > > My conclusion is that the DUG editors, > as some others associated with Fedora, > are pushing Gnome for essentially "political" reasons, > rather than out of any consideration for prospective users. I think it has been amply clarified that this in not the case now. Looking forward to your contributions. Rahul From maburns at gmail.com Thu Mar 22 18:50:01 2007 From: maburns at gmail.com (MBurns) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 11:50:01 -0700 Subject: GSoC: Publishing man/info pages Message-ID: <919559610703221150w16810491oa4ee9c48a6df5935@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I'm interested in working on one of the Fedora bounties, specifically the 'publishing man pages' project [1]. For those that might not know, the project is to have an automated way to grab all the man and info pages from a release and put them on the web to be searched and browsed online. Extending that, putting the documentation into a wiki system is also possible (and open some interesting opportunities, in my eyes). I was wondering what some of the groups thoughts and goals of this project might be. Both so that ideas can be brought out early, but also to know what I might be getting myself into :) So I pose the questions: *Would you like to see man/info pages be online? (broken down by release version, etc, or not) *Would you want them in a wiki? *What about pushing changes on the wiki back to the maintainers of the respective packages? *Would this be a welcome addition or just more work? *What would you like to see this project accomplish in terms of Fedora Documentation? (hopefully beyond just googling for a man page and having it return a fedoraproject.org URL) Cheers! [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraBounties#head-f4affa8058dbc6a6b0568c30659cba5ccf14100d -- Michael Burns * Open Source Lab Oregon State University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070322/48f75500/attachment.htm> From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 22 19:56:49 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 12:56:49 -0700 Subject: GSoC: Publishing man/info pages In-Reply-To: <919559610703221150w16810491oa4ee9c48a6df5935@mail.gmail.com> References: <919559610703221150w16810491oa4ee9c48a6df5935@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1174593409.18755.444.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-03-22 at 11:50 -0700, MBurns wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm interested in working on one of the Fedora bounties, specifically > the 'publishing man pages' project [1]. For those that might not know, > the project is to have an automated way to grab all the man and info > pages from a release and put them on the web to be searched and > browsed online. Extending that, putting the documentation into a wiki > system is also possible (and open some interesting opportunities, in > my eyes). > > I was wondering what some of the groups thoughts and goals of this > project might be. Both so that ideas can be brought out early, but > also to know what I might be getting myself into :) Good idea. Having this discussion in the open makes sure we are all working from a common ground. > So I pose the questions: > *Would you like to see man/info pages be online? (broken down by > release version, etc, or not) Yes. Able to be indexed for a search. > *Would you want them in a wiki? Depends. If we could make the Wiki accept changes and write them to the real man page source, then it makes sense. That seems like a very hard thing to accomplish. Maybe just a subset of the man/info pages, such as the ones where Fedora is the upstream (anaconda, system-config-*, etc.). Otherwise, I'm not sure it makes sense to put in a wiki. We could use it as a way to accept edits/suggestions, but if we have to manually port them to the man/info source ... well, we have to think if it is worth it. If that is a role this project wants to take. My sense is that we want to see improvements in the man/info pages, but cannot take on too much work around it without an improvement in the basic tools. Committing changes to TeX files in CVS does not sound like an improvement. :) > *What about pushing changes on the wiki back to the maintainers of the > respective packages? Such as, have a mapping of content to who owns it? Then issue an email that is a diff or a patch? That's not a bad idea. It could get annoying, so maybe we need a way to bundle up all the changes into one send, v. sending every time someone saves a change to the wiki. > *Would this be a welcome addition or just more work? As detailed above. If it is more work but gives a great benefit, we should consider doing it. > *What would you like to see this project accomplish in terms of Fedora > Documentation? (hopefully beyond just googling for a man page and > having it return a fedoraproject.org URL) That is a really good question! This project is fairly old, so maybe the motivations are lost in the mists of time. I think this stretches waaaaaay back to an old Red Hat Docs Team goal of converting all the man pages to a DocBook format, and then work on improving them. The main motivations I can think of are: 1. Provide useful, Fedora-specific content (man/info pages that only appear in Fedora) 2. Make this content available in many ways (CLI, WUI, but if they were XML, they could appear in GNOME Yelp or KDE Help) 3. Contribute fixes back upstream to improve the state of all content It is the latter that is truly the most interesting ... and also the hardest to accomplish. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070322/f9179933/attachment.sig> From maburns at gmail.com Thu Mar 22 21:00:40 2007 From: maburns at gmail.com (MBurns) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2007 14:00:40 -0700 Subject: GSoC: Publishing man/info pages In-Reply-To: <1174593409.18755.444.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <919559610703221150w16810491oa4ee9c48a6df5935@mail.gmail.com> <1174593409.18755.444.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <919559610703221400i4e45178dydc8b12243f108e22@mail.gmail.com> On 3/22/07, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > > Good idea. Having this discussion in the open makes sure we are all > working from a common ground. Absolutely. Thanks for replying! Such as, have a mapping of content to who owns it? Then issue an email > that is a diff or a patch? This was my thinking, yes. That's not a bad idea. It could get annoying, so maybe we need a way to > bundle up all the changes into one send, v. sending every time someone > saves a change to the wiki. Two ways that jump out at me. (1) Do a batch run. So N days before a release, we run a script that makes one big diff per page and send it out to each respective maintainer. (2) Have a Stable page version. So each change doesn't get a patch release, but once we have a reviewer/editor approve a set of changes, they move the Stable bit up to that version of the page. I think this stretches waaaaaay back to an old Red Hat Docs Team goal of > converting all the man pages to a DocBook format, and then work on > improving them. > > The main motivations I can think of are: > > 1. Provide useful, Fedora-specific content (man/info pages that only > appear in Fedora) > 2. Make this content available in many ways (CLI, WUI, but if they were > XML, they could appear in GNOME Yelp or KDE Help) > 3. Contribute fixes back upstream to improve the state of all content > > It is the latter that is truly the most interesting ... and also the > hardest to accomplish. > #3 Is really my end goal, I think. First, get all the documentation into some common format (DocBook, XML, a MySQL database), and then have some facilities to export (and push changes) to various upstream and user interfaces. Web, GUI, CLI, etc. The more the better, so long as they serve a useful purpose. Of course, this is a big project that most be broken down into various, bite-sized steps. -- Michael Burns * Security Student NET * Oregon State University -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070322/e1ebe684/attachment.htm> From vmlinz at gmail.com Sun Mar 25 12:02:12 2007 From: vmlinz at gmail.com (vmlinz) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:02:12 +0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: vmlinz Message-ID: <1174824132.3732.0.camel@vmlinz.swjtu.edu.cn> Hi all, I'm vmlinz ,a student of Southwest JiaoTong University,China. When I know something about linux ,I'm longing for learning anything of it ,but here in my University there are not so much person involved in it. I'm not so skilled in linux ,but I want to learn it. Here my chance comes, the project give me a chance to do it. And i will try my best to do it . My GPG KEYID and fingerprint: [unconscious at vmlinz ~]$ gpg --fingerprint B87CD498 pub 1024D/B87CD498 2007-03-23 Key fingerprint = 05AF 9C1D 7A87 CCFB 499E 60F1 2D43 555C B87C D498 uid vmlinz (college student) <vmlinz at gmail.com> sub 2048g/F2A5B0C6 2007-03-23 Sincerely VmlinzQi. From fabian.affolter at fedoraproject.org Sun Mar 25 16:02:26 2007 From: fabian.affolter at fedoraproject.org (Fabian Affolter) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 18:02:26 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Fabian Affolter Message-ID: <46069D12.6080603@fedoraproject.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, My Name is Fabian Affolter and I'm living in Berne / Switzerland. After 15 years of using computers my skills are only between intermediate and advanced stage, I'm not an expert. I wrote articles for it-relateted magazines in Switzerland about WLAN. Today most of my articles and tutorials are placed in the german fedora wiki ( fedorawiki.de ). Now I think it's time to add some stuff in german to the original fedoraproject wiki. Please visit this page for more details about me: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FabianAffolter Regards, Fabian 2F6C 930F D3C4 7E38 6AFA 4EB4 E23C D2DD 36A4 397F -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGBp0S4jzS3TakOX8RAiFmAJ9Rva9SF1TfTrKeVwymWKBxcHwGpACghxF3 ofTgUz9itSfDmLBbJ0RuYgQ= =/wx5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Sun Mar 25 17:18:37 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:18:37 -0400 Subject: More wiki cleanup Message-ID: <1174843117.25234.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Here's a very simple task that we could use a new volunteer's help on -- cleaning up our Meeting Minutes page and making sure all the meeting IRC logs and summaries that can be found in the list archives are there. Logs and summaries are probably found in the fedora-docs-list archives?, but there might be a little material lingering in the fedora-dsco-list archives? as well. Simply update the Meetings page at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings and follow the template of the logs below. (The March 18, 2005 meeting needs to follow that convention as well, so you may need to post a message to fedora-docs-list with the missing log.) Reply here if you're up to the task. Thank you! = = = = = ? http://redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/ ? http://redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/ -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070325/b3826269/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sun Mar 25 17:35:40 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:35:40 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting YYYY-MM-DD IRC log Message-ID: <1174844140.25234.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> 12:13 < quaid> ok 12:13 * stickster just updated page with his item 12:13 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings?action=edit&editor=text 12:13 < stickster> crud, sorry 12:13 < quaid> the first is easy 12:13 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 12:13 < quaid> there isn't a GSoC update; aiui the deadline for entries was extended to tomorrow 12:13 < stickster> Ah OK 12:13 < quaid> and I don't have a view yet into what has been proposed 12:14 < glezos> and I don't have a decision yet whether i'll participate as a student. 12:14 < quaid> but it does look like, except for FDP, Fedora didn't get as many ideas up on pages for people to propose against 12:14 < quaid> kind of our usual, "How about you dream up something you'd like to do?" 12:14 < stickster> *sigh 12:15 < stickster> I think the Board will need to start proactively dealing with this better in 2008 12:15 < quaid> hey, you know, if all we had to do was put out GNOME or something, then maybe we'd have time for niceties :) 12:15 < stickster> And to do that, we need a better planning system. I think there was an unfortunately short thread on a better project-wide calendaring system in one of the lists 12:15 < glezos> stickster, right 12:16 < quaid> ok, we can move on 12:16 < stickster> All right, my item next, yes? 12:16 < stickster> So, obviously if you look at f-docs-commits you'll see I've spent a bunch of time in Makefile.common recently 12:17 < stickster> We are now set up so people can check out single documents as a module, and automatically get docs-common included. 12:17 < quaid> but this is docs-common at ,/ v. ../? 12:17 < stickster> Things should Just Work(TM) regardless of whether you do that, or mirror the whole repository down 12:17 < stickster> gotcha! 12:17 < quaid> :) 12:18 < quaid> ok, so you dealt with the concern about multiple docs-common copies/ 12:18 < stickster> You'll see the "find-common-dir" near the top (or some name like that, can't recall off the top of my head) 12:18 < stickster> It looks in current dir first, then parents up, then looks for a system dir in case we ever get around to packaging it 12:18 < quaid> ok 12:18 * quaid kicks CVS for not supporting symlinks 12:18 < stickster> Boo-ya! 12:18 < stickster> Nah, symlinks bad for people using Windowsw 12:18 < stickster> s/sw$/s/ 12:19 < quaid> ? 12:19 < quaid> and the rest of it works on Windows? 12:19 < glezos> stickster, :) 12:19 < stickster> Well, cygwin 12:19 < quaid> well, as long as you got it to work 12:19 < stickster> OK, and... 12:20 < quaid> If it had to be a choice, cygwin would lose out 12:20 < stickster> sure 12:20 < stickster> But I think symlinks are generally a bad way of doing things anyway 12:20 < stickster> fragile 12:20 < stickster> So... 12:20 < stickster> 2. entities 12:20 < stickster> The entities files originally in docs-common/common/ are now gone (fdp-entities-<LANG>.ent) 12:21 < stickster> They were useless anyway, a pain for translators, and mostly stale 12:21 < stickster> All system wide entities have migrated to docs-common/common/entities/ using PO, the way that God intended 12:21 < stickster> Next up, I'm going to do the same for docs-common/common/ snippets like bugreporting, legalnotice, etc. 12:21 < quaid> ah, good, ok 12:22 < stickster> hang on , brb 12:22 * quaid saw cruft and didn't know which was cruft and which was gold 12:29 * quaid gets distracted in EPEL SIG meeting 12:29 < quaid> I got the new CVS bits and didn't have any questions so far 12:29 < quaid> but this is good because it simplifies the l10n process 12:30 < quaid> should we have the QSTG updated? 12:31 < quaid> or maybe wait until things settle down some more? 12:32 < glezos> dunno 12:33 < stickster> back 12:33 < glezos> quaid, I'd say that we could wait to get it done right 12:33 < glezos> It's 2 months more 12:34 < stickster> It won't be nearly that long before I have everything done 12:34 < stickster> In the next few days, after I'm done, I'll update it 12:34 < stickster> *: I also want to bring up the whole "xml2po -e" vs. "xml2po -k" thing 12:34 < stickster> I think we're better off with the latter. 12:35 < stickster> We tried it before but it didn't work because of the stupid stuff in docs-common/common/ (i.e. snippet inclusion without XInclude) 12:35 < stickster> I think we can safely go back to keeping entities in the POT/PO files now 12:35 < stickster> That means that translators will simply translate, e.g. &DISTRO; as &DISTRO; 12:36 < stickster> If we update one of them, like the Fedora release number, the translation doesn't immediately catch "the fuzzies" 12:36 < glezos> stickster, whatever you believe it's better 12:36 < stickster> Yeah, we tried to do it this way before, and fell back because we couldn't make it work 12:37 < stickster> Now we have more XML savvy and fewer crazy things we're trying to do, so things like that should now be possible again 12:38 < quaid> ok, cool 12:38 < quaid> stickster: good work, padewan 12:38 < stickster> Oh, one more thing 12:39 < stickster> I'm putting per-branch aliases in CVSROOT/modules, so you can now check out, e.g. "install-guide-devel" to get just the devel branch. It cuts down on bandwidth as well 12:39 < stickster> So, next up: 12:39 < stickster> 1. fixing snippets => XML+PO 12:39 < stickster> 2. fixing graphics => SVG+[tools] 12:40 < quaid> GuGu: we're meeting here for the next 20 minutes (or so); do you want to save your question(s) until then, then we can talk here? 12:40 < quaid> stickster: sorry, what are snippets? 12:41 < stickster> quaid: bugreporting-*.xml, legalnotice-*.xml, etc. 12:42 < stickster> all found in docs-common/common/ right now 12:42 < quaid> ah, right, those 12:42 * quaid forgot the special term 'snippet' 12:42 < quaid> ;-D 12:43 < stickster> OK, I'm done too 12:43 < stickster> couf_away is still away, so we can safely skip his item 12:44 < glezos> I have a suggestion 12:45 < glezos> that might urge translators get more Docs translated for F7 12:45 < glezos> if we had on the web some l10n statistics for cvs.fp.org, that might urge them to push their translation too 12:46 < quaid> hmm 12:46 < quaid> can we do that semi-manually? 12:46 < stickster> boo, hiss 12:46 < quaid> that is, write some Perl that dumps stats to SVG? 12:46 < stickster> heh 12:46 < quaid> err 12:46 < glezos> Sonar_Gal, would it be a good idea to ask FIP for a place to run the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation#statistics 12:46 < quaid> Python I meant 12:46 < stickster> Poor Sonar_Gal 12:47 < quaid> her fault, if she chose Sonar_Gyrl, then Sonar_Guy would get all the "So[tab]" 12:47 < glezos> quaid, we could do a cron job to run this script and publish the results.. they are not pretty, but they are usable... Especially if you run them through a search-n-replace script that transforms them into an HTML table... 12:47 < quaid> +1 12:47 < quaid> at least that 12:48 < quaid> maybe an update hourly (or at :20 or something) 12:48 < glezos> quaid, should we ask FIP for l10n.fedoraproject.org? 12:48 < stickster> And translation.fp.o 12:48 < quaid> as a CNAME? 12:48 < stickster> whatever 12:49 * stickster doesn't trust people to guess "l10n" 12:49 < quaid> ok, whatever, I mena, as a pointer v. stand alone host 12:49 < stickster> Oh yeah 12:49 < quaid> then I want documentation.fp.o ! 12:49 < quaid> :D 12:49 < glezos> ok.. we could standarize on translations.fedoraproject.org and take it from there.. I guess this is something -trans-list should decide 12:49 < stickster> +1! 12:49 * quaid is all about the "docs is unprofesional, spell it out" :) 12:50 < quaid> glezos: yes, propose and see what they prefer, just as we did for docs.fp.o and then we'll put up what we have as we hae it 12:52 < glezos> k. then I'll just send an email to FIP 12:53 < quaid> cool, or file a ticket 12:53 < quaid> if there is nothing to discuss, just request 12:54 < quaid> (http://admin.fedoraproject.org/tickets) 12:54 < quaid> and there we go 12:54 < quaid> anything more here? 12:55 < glezos> nah 12:55 < stickster> nope 12:55 < quaid> heh, no quorum even 12:55 < quaid> rockin', thx getns 12:55 < quaid> gents even 12:55 < quaid> </meeting> -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070325/a54de179/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sun Mar 25 17:38:21 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:38:21 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-03-25 IRC log Message-ID: <1174844301.25234.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sorry for the last message, here's the proper thread title for archive happiness. 12:13 < quaid> ok 12:13 * stickster just updated page with his item 12:13 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings?action=edit&editor=text 12:13 < stickster> crud, sorry 12:13 < quaid> the first is easy 12:13 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 12:13 < quaid> there isn't a GSoC update; aiui the deadline for entries was extended to tomorrow 12:13 < stickster> Ah OK 12:13 < quaid> and I don't have a view yet into what has been proposed 12:14 < glezos> and I don't have a decision yet whether i'll participate as a student. 12:14 < quaid> but it does look like, except for FDP, Fedora didn't get as many ideas up on pages for people to propose against 12:14 < quaid> kind of our usual, "How about you dream up something you'd like to do?" 12:14 < stickster> *sigh 12:15 < stickster> I think the Board will need to start proactively dealing with this better in 2008 12:15 < quaid> hey, you know, if all we had to do was put out GNOME or something, then maybe we'd have time for niceties :) 12:15 < stickster> And to do that, we need a better planning system. I think there was an unfortunately short thread on a better project-wide calendaring system in one of the lists 12:15 < glezos> stickster, right 12:16 < quaid> ok, we can move on 12:16 < stickster> All right, my item next, yes? 12:16 < stickster> So, obviously if you look at f-docs-commits you'll see I've spent a bunch of time in Makefile.common recently 12:17 < stickster> We are now set up so people can check out single documents as a module, and automatically get docs-common included. 12:17 < quaid> but this is docs-common at ,/ v. ../? 12:17 < stickster> Things should Just Work(TM) regardless of whether you do that, or mirror the whole repository down 12:17 < stickster> gotcha! 12:17 < quaid> :) 12:18 < quaid> ok, so you dealt with the concern about multiple docs-common copies/ 12:18 < stickster> You'll see the "find-common-dir" near the top (or some name like that, can't recall off the top of my head) 12:18 < stickster> It looks in current dir first, then parents up, then looks for a system dir in case we ever get around to packaging it 12:18 < quaid> ok 12:18 * quaid kicks CVS for not supporting symlinks 12:18 < stickster> Boo-ya! 12:18 < stickster> Nah, symlinks bad for people using Windowsw 12:18 < stickster> s/sw$/s/ 12:19 < quaid> ? 12:19 < quaid> and the rest of it works on Windows? 12:19 < glezos> stickster, :) 12:19 < stickster> Well, cygwin 12:19 < quaid> well, as long as you got it to work 12:19 < stickster> OK, and... 12:20 < quaid> If it had to be a choice, cygwin would lose out 12:20 < stickster> sure 12:20 < stickster> But I think symlinks are generally a bad way of doing things anyway 12:20 < stickster> fragile 12:20 < stickster> So... 12:20 < stickster> 2. entities 12:20 < stickster> The entities files originally in docs-common/common/ are now gone (fdp-entities-<LANG>.ent) 12:21 < stickster> They were useless anyway, a pain for translators, and mostly stale 12:21 < stickster> All system wide entities have migrated to docs-common/common/entities/ using PO, the way that God intended 12:21 < stickster> Next up, I'm going to do the same for docs-common/common/ snippets like bugreporting, legalnotice, etc. 12:21 < quaid> ah, good, ok 12:22 < stickster> hang on , brb 12:22 * quaid saw cruft and didn't know which was cruft and which was gold 12:29 * quaid gets distracted in EPEL SIG meeting 12:29 < quaid> I got the new CVS bits and didn't have any questions so far 12:29 < quaid> but this is good because it simplifies the l10n process 12:30 < quaid> should we have the QSTG updated? 12:31 < quaid> or maybe wait until things settle down some more? 12:32 < glezos> dunno 12:33 < stickster> back 12:33 < glezos> quaid, I'd say that we could wait to get it done right 12:33 < glezos> It's 2 months more 12:34 < stickster> It won't be nearly that long before I have everything done 12:34 < stickster> In the next few days, after I'm done, I'll update it 12:34 < stickster> *: I also want to bring up the whole "xml2po -e" vs. "xml2po -k" thing 12:34 < stickster> I think we're better off with the latter. 12:35 < stickster> We tried it before but it didn't work because of the stupid stuff in docs-common/common/ (i.e. snippet inclusion without XInclude) 12:35 < stickster> I think we can safely go back to keeping entities in the POT/PO files now 12:35 < stickster> That means that translators will simply translate, e.g. &DISTRO; as &DISTRO; 12:36 < stickster> If we update one of them, like the Fedora release number, the translation doesn't immediately catch "the fuzzies" 12:36 < glezos> stickster, whatever you believe it's better 12:36 < stickster> Yeah, we tried to do it this way before, and fell back because we couldn't make it work 12:37 < stickster> Now we have more XML savvy and fewer crazy things we're trying to do, so things like that should now be possible again 12:38 < quaid> ok, cool 12:38 < quaid> stickster: good work, padewan 12:38 < stickster> Oh, one more thing 12:39 < stickster> I'm putting per-branch aliases in CVSROOT/modules, so you can now check out, e.g. "install-guide-devel" to get just the devel branch. It cuts down on bandwidth as well 12:39 < stickster> So, next up: 12:39 < stickster> 1. fixing snippets => XML+PO 12:39 < stickster> 2. fixing graphics => SVG+[tools] 12:40 < quaid> GuGu: we're meeting here for the next 20 minutes (or so); do you want to save your question(s) until then, then we can talk here? 12:40 < quaid> stickster: sorry, what are snippets? 12:41 < stickster> quaid: bugreporting-*.xml, legalnotice-*.xml, etc. 12:42 < stickster> all found in docs-common/common/ right now 12:42 < quaid> ah, right, those 12:42 * quaid forgot the special term 'snippet' 12:42 < quaid> ;-D 12:43 < stickster> OK, I'm done too 12:43 < stickster> couf_away is still away, so we can safely skip his item 12:44 < glezos> I have a suggestion 12:45 < glezos> that might urge translators get more Docs translated for F7 12:45 < glezos> if we had on the web some l10n statistics for cvs.fp.org, that might urge them to push their translation too 12:46 < quaid> hmm 12:46 < quaid> can we do that semi-manually? 12:46 < stickster> boo, hiss 12:46 < quaid> that is, write some Perl that dumps stats to SVG? 12:46 < stickster> heh 12:46 < quaid> err 12:46 < glezos> Sonar_Gal, would it be a good idea to ask FIP for a place to run the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation#statistics 12:46 < quaid> Python I meant 12:46 < stickster> Poor Sonar_Gal 12:47 < quaid> her fault, if she chose Sonar_Gyrl, then Sonar_Guy would get all the "So[tab]" 12:47 < glezos> quaid, we could do a cron job to run this script and publish the results.. they are not pretty, but they are usable... Especially if you run them through a search-n-replace script that transforms them into an HTML table... 12:47 < quaid> +1 12:47 < quaid> at least that 12:48 < quaid> maybe an update hourly (or at :20 or something) 12:48 < glezos> quaid, should we ask FIP for l10n.fedoraproject.org? 12:48 < stickster> And translation.fp.o 12:48 < quaid> as a CNAME? 12:48 < stickster> whatever 12:49 * stickster doesn't trust people to guess "l10n" 12:49 < quaid> ok, whatever, I mena, as a pointer v. stand alone host 12:49 < stickster> Oh yeah 12:49 < quaid> then I want documentation.fp.o ! 12:49 < quaid> :D 12:49 < glezos> ok.. we could standarize on translations.fedoraproject.org and take it from there.. I guess this is something -trans-list should decide 12:49 < stickster> +1! 12:49 * quaid is all about the "docs is unprofesional, spell it out" :) 12:50 < quaid> glezos: yes, propose and see what they prefer, just as we did for docs.fp.o and then we'll put up what we have as we hae it 12:52 < glezos> k. then I'll just send an email to FIP 12:53 < quaid> cool, or file a ticket 12:53 < quaid> if there is nothing to discuss, just request 12:54 < quaid> (http://admin.fedoraproject.org/tickets) 12:54 < quaid> and there we go 12:54 < quaid> anything more here? 12:55 < glezos> nah 12:55 < stickster> nope 12:55 < quaid> heh, no quorum even 12:55 < quaid> rockin', thx getns 12:55 < quaid> gents even 12:55 < quaid> </meeting> -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070325/31e67daa/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Sun Mar 25 17:55:44 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 13:55:44 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-03-25 Summary Message-ID: <1174845344.25234.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below Attendees: ----------- * Karsten Wade * Paul Frields * Dimitris Glezos Absent: * Bart Couvreur * Bob Jensen * John Babich * Pavel Sadowski Summary: --------- * GSoC has extended their deadline until tomorrow, 2007-03-26. Karsten is waiting to see what proposals come in. We expect at least a PDF proposal at this point. * Paul has revamped docs-common; docs writers and editors should be updating that module. Paul will work on converting existing XML "snippets" from docs-common/common to PO, removing repetitive graphics content in favor of SVG only + tools, and reverting repository-wide CVS behavior to using "xml2po -k" so entity changes do not cause spurious translation statistic changes. * Dimitris will enter and track a request ticket on getting a translation stats cron job and a host to run it on from Infrastructure. No committee votes taken. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070325/4788b155/attachment.sig> From peti at sulyok.hu Sun Mar 25 18:08:11 2007 From: peti at sulyok.hu (Sulyok Peti) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2007 20:08:11 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Peter Sulyok Message-ID: <1174846091.4774.8.camel@sutty.homelinux.net> Dear Fedora Members, My name is P?ter Sulyok. I am from Budapest, Hungary. (+0100) I work on software development for a multinational mobile corp. I would like to take part in translation of docs/websites/packages, and start the Hungarian Welcome page in the wiki. I have been hanging around Fedora Project since the beginning. I have translated several packages for Fedora and other projects. I tried to write documentation (Firewall Tutorial), develop config tool (GUI for iptables) for Fedora. I have graduated in computer sciences, but I have got my computer skills mainly from the free softwares in the Internet. I work with Java, Oracle PL/SQL, and shell scripts now. I am also familiar with Python, C, C++, PHP, GTK+, QT, autoconf/automake, cvs, subversion, PostgreSQL, and system administration. Some of my products are available here: http://sp.web.elte.hu/index.html.en [peti at sutty ~]$ gpg --fingerprint E2EA75DC pub 1024D/E2EA75DC 2004-10-07 Key fingerprint = EE9A 945B C9FA 2943 656A A75A A92A 82E9 E2EA 75DC uid Sulyok P?ter <peti at sulyok.hu> sub 2048g/DE2CE616 2004-10-07 Best Regards, Peti -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Ez az ?zenetr?sz digit?lis al??r?ssal van ell?tva URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070325/f174153d/attachment.sig> From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Tue Mar 27 14:11:06 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 10:11:06 -0400 Subject: more wiki cleanup Message-ID: <1175004667.18279.2.camel@buster.blogdns.net> I started working on this today (27.mar.2007). -Jason >Here's a very simple task that we could use a new volunteer's help on >-- >cleaning up our Meeting Minutes page and making sure all the meeting IRC >logs and summaries that can be found in the list archives are there. <snipped> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070327/2b52acb1/attachment.sig> From vmlinz at gmail.com Wed Mar 28 00:09:26 2007 From: vmlinz at gmail.com (vmlinz) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 08:09:26 +0800 Subject: Need someone to sponsor me in cvsdoc In-Reply-To: <mailman.89032.1174667033.1982.fedora-docs-list@redhat.com> References: <mailman.89032.1174667033.1982.fedora-docs-list@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1175040566.2972.5.camel@vmlinz.swjtu.edu.cn> Hi,all I Need someone to sponsor me in cvsdoc menbership. My user name vmlinz Thanks From kwade at redhat.com Wed Mar 28 05:31:54 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2007 22:31:54 -0700 Subject: Need someone to sponsor me in cvsdoc In-Reply-To: <1175040566.2972.5.camel@vmlinz.swjtu.edu.cn> References: <mailman.89032.1174667033.1982.fedora-docs-list@redhat.com> <1175040566.2972.5.camel@vmlinz.swjtu.edu.cn> Message-ID: <1175059914.27529.216.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 08:09 +0800, vmlinz wrote: > Hi,all > > I Need someone to sponsor me in cvsdoc menbership. > > My user name vmlinz Thanks for your email reminder, you are now approved. Same for 'fab' (Fabian Affolter). Sorry for the delay. :) cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070327/f606a02b/attachment.sig> From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed Mar 28 13:46:38 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 14:46:38 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Jonathan Roberts Message-ID: <3263b11b0703280646y53bfdcfx518ae813673516eb@mail.gmail.com> Hi! My name is Jonathan Roberts and I've been following the list for a while and thinking about contributing but not really sure about the best place to start - I figured I can't go wrong with a self-introduction :D Things you may want to know about me: I live in the UK and I'm currently taking a gap year before heading off to university to study Theology, rather bizarely after changing my mind about studying Physics and Philosophy last year! To help me pass the time I've worked on a few projects: the Questions Please... podcast (http://questionsplease.org) where I've interviewed a range of very exciting people including Richard Stallman, Jeremy Allison, Jeff Waugh and Mark Shuttleworth - though struggling to get a hold of someone from the Fedora Project; I've also almost finished producing the "Free Me" DVD - an attempt to promote free culture in general (http://questionsplease.org/freeme/) which I'm quite excited about. As for my qualifications as a writer/editor: I studied English at higher level on the International Bacallaureate and scored a 5 (hugely disappointed not to have got a 6); I've been doing a bit of writing for Free Software Magazine (http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/blog/31677) and also a bit of editing when they've been short on time. I don't really have an idea of specific documents I would like to (help) write at the minute, I'll be sure to give this some thought over the next few days, but I do know that I would like to contribute back something to Fedora and I have the time and the inclination to, hopefully, make a reasonable contribution to the documentation project; if there's ever any editing that needs doing I'm happy to look over things like that as well. Well, that is possibly the longest self introduction you're ever likely to see?! Oh, and my GPG Key ID etc: B923BC72 1735 EF16 3EF2 EF9D A2DD 02B0 A791 8B23 B923 BC72 I prefer, however, to use webmail because I often access my e-mail from a number of different systems and it's easier for me to stay organised this way. I hope this is OK. Yours kindly, Jonathan Roberts From stickster at gmail.com Wed Mar 28 20:43:13 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 16:43:13 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Jonathan Roberts In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0703280646y53bfdcfx518ae813673516eb@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0703280646y53bfdcfx518ae813673516eb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1175114593.7466.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 14:46 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi! > > My name is Jonathan Roberts and I've been following the list for a > while and thinking about contributing but not really sure about the > best place to start - I figured I can't go wrong with a > self-introduction :D Good to meet you Jonathan! The best place to start is often to simply look at the draft documentation on the wiki at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts and see what you'd like to improve. (I'd lean away from creating brand new documents since we're still trying to wrangle a number of these into shape, including the Desktop User Guide.) > Things you may want to know about me: > > I live in the UK and I'm currently taking a gap year before heading > off to university to study Theology, rather bizarely after changing my > mind about studying Physics and Philosophy last year! To help me pass > the time I've worked on a few projects: the Questions Please... > podcast (http://questionsplease.org) where I've interviewed a range of > very exciting people including Richard Stallman, Jeremy Allison, Jeff > Waugh and Mark Shuttleworth - though struggling to get a hold of > someone from the Fedora Project; I've also almost finished producing > the "Free Me" DVD - an attempt to promote free culture in general > (http://questionsplease.org/freeme/) which I'm quite excited about. I am CC'ing Max and Greg on this email so they can see whether one of them has time to participate as a resident BMOC and Voice of Fedora. :-) [...snip...] > I don't really have an idea of specific documents I would like to > (help) write at the minute, I'll be sure to give this some thought > over the next few days, but I do know that I would like to contribute > back something to Fedora and I have the time and the inclination to, > hopefully, make a reasonable contribution to the documentation > project; if there's ever any editing that needs doing I'm happy to > look over things like that as well. I started this way too, back in 2003, and since then I've been fortunate enough to have people willing to help me learn DocBook and XML, XSLT, GNU Make, CVS and Subversion, some Python, and a few other odds and ends. Much of it was done on Fedora Docs "property" and with generous dollops of patience on the part of the victims^Wother volunteers. ;-) Getting involved is basically a matter of rolling up one's sleeves and delving into something interesting, however new or unfamiliar. You will reap great rewards as a result! (That's my Chinese fortune cookie mode in full view.) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070328/a446c136/attachment.sig> From vincenzo at aniceweb.com Wed Mar 28 21:43:28 2007 From: vincenzo at aniceweb.com (Vincenzo Di Biaggio) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:43:28 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Vincenzo Di Biaggio Message-ID: <460AE180.5000603@aniceweb.com> Hi! I am Vincenzo Di Biaggio, i live in San Salvo, (CH), Abruzzo, Italy ( beautifulst sea and landscapes :D ) I work in a small company that it works in the automotive (quality control) I have studied until the 4 ' year of industrial and technical institute, but I have achieved a certificate for webmastering. I would want to participate to the translation of the documentation, which it's a your choice. I know the system linux much good, I php and know to realize Internet web sites with xhtml, xml, xslt, php, msql and much moore. I love the software open-source and the translation is useful also to improve my English :?) I hope that you will accept to me, I will be much happy! From vincenzo at aniceweb.com Wed Mar 28 21:52:34 2007 From: vincenzo at aniceweb.com (Vincenzo Di Biaggio) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 23:52:34 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Vincenzo Di Biaggio Message-ID: <460AE3A2.70608@aniceweb.com> Hi! I am Vincenzo Di Biaggio, i live in San Salvo, (CH), Abruzzo, Italy ( beautifulst sea and landscapes :D ) I work in a small company that it works in the automotive (quality control) I have studied until the 4 ' year of industrial and technical institute, but I have achieved a certificate for webmastering. I would want to participate to the translation of the documentation, which it's a your choice. I know the system linux much good, I php and know to realize Internet web sites with xhtml, xml, xslt, php, msql and much moore. I love the software open-source and the translation is useful also to improve my English :?) I hope that you will accept to me, I will be much happy! -- ______________________________ Vincenzo Di Biaggio www.aniceweb.com aniceweb.wordpress.com ______________________________ gpg fingerprint= 9F02 2634 E190 A640 14F1 6FCB 2928 1DF4 E8FD BFA2 From tchung at fedoraproject.org Wed Mar 28 22:09:06 2007 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 15:09:06 -0700 Subject: Fedora News Project is Looking for Writers Message-ID: <369bce3b0703281509x9daa3d3w23b22b8ac54690cc@mail.gmail.com> Currently Fedora News Project[1] is looking for two or more writers for up-coming-issue of Fedora Weekly News. Selected writers are expected to pick out the several major topics discussed in that week from following mailing lists and summarized them in a few paragraph.: * Development Section: fedora-devel-list, fedora-extras-list and fedora-maintainers-list * Documentation Section: fedora-docs-list * Events and Meetings: fedora-ambassadors-list and fedora-marketing-list These paragraphs will be edited by our editors and eventually published in our next issue of Fedora Weekly News. If you're interested in this project, please contact me as soon as possible. Regards, [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NewsProject -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From stickster at gmail.com Wed Mar 28 23:11:58 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 19:11:58 -0400 Subject: Fedora News Project is Looking for Writers In-Reply-To: <369bce3b0703281509x9daa3d3w23b22b8ac54690cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <369bce3b0703281509x9daa3d3w23b22b8ac54690cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1175123518.7466.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 15:09 -0700, Thomas Chung wrote: > Currently Fedora News Project[1] is looking for two or more writers > for up-coming-issue of Fedora Weekly News. > > Selected writers are expected to pick out the several major topics > discussed in that week from following mailing lists and summarized > them in a few paragraph.: > > * Development Section: fedora-devel-list, fedora-extras-list and > fedora-maintainers-list > * Documentation Section: fedora-docs-list > * Events and Meetings: fedora-ambassadors-list and fedora-marketing-list > > These paragraphs will be edited by our editors and eventually > published in our next issue of Fedora Weekly News. > > If you're interested in this project, please contact me as soon as possible. > Regards, > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NewsProject > -- > Thomas Chung This is a great opportunity for new writers to get involved in a "low-hanging fruit" project. You can get to know other people around the project, and bring news of their work to the larger community. Plus, your name in lights! Step right up and dig in. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070328/2f933f96/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 29 00:28:47 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:28:47 -0400 Subject: Changes in Docs CVS Message-ID: <1175128127.7466.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> During the last year the Docs Project has made significant strides in working with the XML in our CVS repository. Our toolchain has improved along with our understanding of how to make better use of our XML content assets. We are making a change that will turn quite a number of translations "fuzzy" but the changes themselves will be quite minimal. Some time ago, because of some toolchain deficiencies, we elected to use the "xml2po -e" option to parse entities when creating POT and PO files. So if our XML looked like this: <para>This paragraph is about &FED;.</para> The POT would use contain this msgid: This paragraph is about Fedora. We are moving now to a better XML handling infrastructure where the POT's msgid will instead look like this: This paragraph is about &FED;. These entity definitions, such as &FED; or &FCVER;, are defined in our docs-common/ module under docs-common/common/entities, and can be translated using normal POT/PO tools. By translating that content, you will allow these entities to be "filled in" after translation, and during the build process. Previously, if an entity changed, the msgid's using that content would all change too. Now changes in the entities can be entirely independent of the content and if we change &FCVER; from "7" to "8," you will not need to update any content. (Entities with actual language content would need to be kept up-to-date, of course!) So, while there will be some temporary minor inconvenience, in the long run this will improve the translation process and lighten your workload. Thank you to everyone who works so hard on the translations of Fedora content! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070328/2db7eb00/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 29 00:33:18 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2007 20:33:18 -0400 Subject: Changes in Docs CVS In-Reply-To: <1175128127.7466.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1175128127.7466.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1175128398.7466.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 20:28 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > During the last year the Docs Project has made significant strides in > working with the XML in our CVS repository. Our toolchain has improved > along with our understanding of how to make better use of our XML > content assets. We are making a change that will turn quite a number of > translations "fuzzy" but the changes themselves will be quite minimal. > > Some time ago, because of some toolchain deficiencies, we elected to use > the "xml2po -e" option to parse entities when creating POT and PO files. > So if our XML looked like this: > > <para>This paragraph is about &FED;.</para> > > The POT would use contain this msgid: > > This paragraph is about Fedora. > > We are moving now to a better XML handling infrastructure where the > POT's msgid will instead look like this: > > This paragraph is about &FED;. I will be making this change in Makefile.common at some point in the next 24 hours. (Simply put, we're changing the standard xml2po option from "-e" to "-k".) I will be updating POT and PO files for some but not all documents -- probably the following modules only: release-notes install-guide about-fedora readme readme-burning-isos homepage example-tutorial documentation-guide jargon-buster translation-quick-start-guide It is up to any other documents' maintainers to do a "make pot po" and then commit the new POT/PO in their module(s) to update the message content. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070328/49c10611/attachment.sig> From vmlinz at gmail.com Thu Mar 29 04:42:58 2007 From: vmlinz at gmail.com (vmlinz) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 12:42:58 +0800 Subject: Need someone to sponsor me in cvsdoc In-Reply-To: <1175059914.27529.216.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <mailman.89032.1174667033.1982.fedora-docs-list@redhat.com> <1175040566.2972.5.camel@vmlinz.swjtu.edu.cn> <1175059914.27529.216.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1175143379.2716.30.camel@vmlinz.swjtu.edu.cn> On Tue, 2007-03-27 at 22:31 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 08:09 +0800, vmlinz wrote: > > Hi,all > > > > I Need someone to sponsor me in cvsdoc menbership. > > > > My user name vmlinz > > Thanks for your email reminder, you are now approved. > > Same for 'fab' (Fabian Affolter). Sorry for the delay. :) > > cheers - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list hi,Karsten Thank you for help :),I'm now member of cvsdoc group, glad to join you sincerely From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Mar 29 15:22:32 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 16:22:32 +0100 Subject: Self-Introduction: Jonathan Roberts In-Reply-To: <1175114593.7466.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3263b11b0703280646y53bfdcfx518ae813673516eb@mail.gmail.com> <1175114593.7466.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3263b11b0703290822x4291d3efl79dc6a422d9ce156@mail.gmail.com> > Good to meet you Jonathan! The best place to start is often to simply > look at the draft documentation on the wiki at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts and see what you'd like to > improve. (I'd lean away from creating brand new documents since we're > still trying to wrangle a number of these into shape, including the > Desktop User Guide.) I've looked over this - and the documentation as a whole! - some bits look like they're pretty close to being finished? Or is it just my imagination, I don't know your criteria for defining a completed doc. For example the ISO burning tutorial. I'll keep looking over the documents abouts writing documents and try and sort membership of the fedora project etc so I can start editing. > I am CC'ing Max and Greg on this email so they can see whether one of > them has time to participate as a resident BMOC and Voice of > Fedora. :-) Thanks :D > Getting involved is basically a matter of rolling up one's sleeves and > delving into something interesting, however new or unfamiliar. You will > reap great rewards as a result! (That's my Chinese fortune cookie mode > in full view.) Haha well hopefully it will turn out like this! I'll get my membership and everything sorted - what do I need to do to get added to the docs writers group? - and then (try to) make myself useful... Jon From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 29 15:30:54 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:30:54 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Vincenzo Di Biaggio In-Reply-To: <460AE180.5000603@aniceweb.com> References: <460AE180.5000603@aniceweb.com> Message-ID: <1175182254.3298.72.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-03-28 at 23:43 +0200, Vincenzo Di Biaggio wrote: > Hi! > I am Vincenzo Di Biaggio, i live in San Salvo, (CH), Abruzzo, Italy ( > beautifulst sea and landscapes :D ) Ciao, bienvenuto! > I work in a small company that it works in the automotive (quality control) > I have studied until the 4 ' year of industrial and technical > institute, but I have achieved a certificate for webmastering. > I would want to participate to the translation of the documentation, > which it's a your choice. > I know the system linux much good, I php and know to realize Internet > web sites with xhtml, xml, xslt, php, msql and much moore. I love the > software open-source and the translation is useful also to improve my > English :?) You can coordinate with the Italian translation team, through fedora-trans-list. All of our documents in CVS are open for translation. The priority is usually: release-notes, homepage, about-fedora, and install-guide. This time I think we'll be adding the desktop-user-guide to that. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070329/ec7ba331/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Thu Mar 29 15:34:29 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 08:34:29 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 DUG Message-ID: <1175182469.3298.76.camel@erato.phig.org> We need someone to step forward as a lead writer for the DUG. Is that John? You certainly did the bulk of that work in the last months before release. For Fedora 7, we can address some of the issues that we've known about, and which have come up in recent discussions: * Adding KDE * Continue focusing around tasks (what you can do, how to do it) * Push concept material (what is) to other documents For KDE, we'll need someone who knows KDE to write matching sections with the equivalent software. Anyone here interested? Or do we need to recruit someone? Bart has wrote down the process he used for converting the Wiki to XML. While I'm tempted to keep it in XML and edit that directly, I wonder if we'll still get more and better content if we use the Wiki and convert in a few weeks. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070329/65e6c79d/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Thu Mar 29 15:51:18 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2007 11:51:18 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Jonathan Roberts In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0703290822x4291d3efl79dc6a422d9ce156@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0703280646y53bfdcfx518ae813673516eb@mail.gmail.com> <1175114593.7466.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0703290822x4291d3efl79dc6a422d9ce156@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1175183478.13896.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-03-29 at 16:22 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Good to meet you Jonathan! The best place to start is often to simply > > look at the draft documentation on the wiki at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts and see what you'd like to > > improve. (I'd lean away from creating brand new documents since we're > > still trying to wrangle a number of these into shape, including the > > Desktop User Guide.) > > I've looked over this - and the documentation as a whole! - some bits > look like they're pretty close to being finished? Or is it just my > imagination, I don't know your criteria for defining a completed doc. > For example the ISO burning tutorial. I'll keep looking over the > documents abouts writing documents and try and sort membership of the > fedora project etc so I can start editing. I think everything you need to do for membership is outlined here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/NewWriters#SigningUp > > Getting involved is basically a matter of rolling up one's sleeves and > > delving into something interesting, however new or unfamiliar. You will > > reap great rewards as a result! (That's my Chinese fortune cookie mode > > in full view.) > > Haha well hopefully it will turn out like this! I'll get my membership > and everything sorted - what do I need to do to get added to the docs > writers group? - and then (try to) make myself useful... Once you have your GPG key and go through the account creation process, you should be good to go. A Bugzilla account is a good idea too, if you don't have one. Use the same public email address for everything to avoid confusion. If you have any questions or hardships, please drop a line to the list! :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20070329/de43fe73/attachment.sig> From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Sat Mar 31 11:37:58 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 12:37:58 +0100 Subject: Getting started: DUG Message-ID: <3263b11b0703310437k5e5cd4fnabaac6c173039f31@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I've been looking over all the information and feel I'm ready to get started. The only trouble is that I'm reluctant to in case I over step the mark and make changes that I think are necessary/useful but others might not agree with and I'd hate to create further work for people in undoing my changes! For now there are some paragraphs on the DUG that definitely need a few changes just to read properly and I guess I'll make those as they're only going to be minor and it will be a start :D Guess I'll just take things gradually and ask that somebody tell me if I do something horrible and I'll fix it! Yours, Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Mar 31 12:04:42 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2007 17:34:42 +0530 Subject: Getting started: DUG In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0703310437k5e5cd4fnabaac6c173039f31@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0703310437k5e5cd4fnabaac6c173039f31@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <460E4E5A.80502@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi, > > I've been looking over all the information and feel I'm ready to get > started. The only trouble is that I'm reluctant to in case I over step > the mark and make changes that I think are necessary/useful but others > might not agree with and I'd hate to create further work for people in > undoing my changes! > > For now there are some paragraphs on the DUG that definitely need a > few changes just to read properly and I guess I'll make those as > they're only going to be minor and it will be a start :D Guess I'll > just take things gradually and ask that somebody tell me if I do > something horrible and I'll fix it! Just go ahead. All changes in the wiki can be reverted. So we won't really lose any content. Rahul