From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 1 13:35:25 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 06:35:25 -0700 Subject: DTDs soon available via PUBLIC URI In-Reply-To: <1177882587.4657.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1177882587.4657.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1178026525.4646.64.camel@erato.phig.org> Fly! Dope! Rad! Awesome! On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 17:36 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > This means that all our rpm-info and entities documents can start using > those URIs to avoid pesky validation errors when your docs-common/ > directory ends up in a different place than it was when the rpm-info or > entities XML was first written. If you have an XML-aware editor that's > net-savvy, it will automatically retrieve the DTD over the network and > validate using it. It also means we don't have to be waiting constantly to hit e.g. oasis-open.org, which is a very popular PUBLIC DTD source, so can be a bit, her, pounded on at times. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 1 14:55:58 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 10:55:58 -0400 Subject: DTDs soon available via PUBLIC URI In-Reply-To: <1178026525.4646.64.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1177882587.4657.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1178026525.4646.64.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1178031358.4086.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 06:35 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > Fly! Dope! Rad! Awesome! > > On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 17:36 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > This means that all our rpm-info and entities documents can start using > > those URIs to avoid pesky validation errors when your docs-common/ > > directory ends up in a different place than it was when the rpm-info or > > entities XML was first written. If you have an XML-aware editor that's > > net-savvy, it will automatically retrieve the DTD over the network and > > validate using it. > > It also means we don't have to be waiting constantly to hit e.g. > oasis-open.org, which is a very popular PUBLIC DTD source, so can be a > bit, her, pounded on at times. Well, let me be clear that these FPI's are *only* for the DTDs for our "rpm-info.xml" and "doc-entities.xml" documents. DTDs for DocBook XML should still come from one of the canonical locations at oasis-open.org or docbook.org. (I usually use docbook.org, but that's just me.) If you're on a system with the "docbook-dtds" package installed, your system resolves entities through your local SGML catalog (in /etc/sgml) before trying to hit the network, anyway. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 1 14:56:59 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 10:56:59 -0400 Subject: DTDs soon available via PUBLIC URI In-Reply-To: <1178031358.4086.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1177882587.4657.60.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1178026525.4646.64.camel@erato.phig.org> <1178031358.4086.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1178031419.4086.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 10:56 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-05-01 at 06:35 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > Fly! Dope! Rad! Awesome! > > > > On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 17:36 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > This means that all our rpm-info and entities documents can start using > > > those URIs to avoid pesky validation errors when your docs-common/ > > > directory ends up in a different place than it was when the rpm-info or > > > entities XML was first written. If you have an XML-aware editor that's > > > net-savvy, it will automatically retrieve the DTD over the network and > > > validate using it. > > > > It also means we don't have to be waiting constantly to hit e.g. > > oasis-open.org, which is a very popular PUBLIC DTD source, so can be a > > bit, her, pounded on at times. > > Well, let me be clear that these FPI's are *only* for the DTDs for our > "rpm-info.xml" and "doc-entities.xml" documents. DTDs for DocBook XML > should still come from one of the canonical locations at oasis-open.org > or docbook.org. (I usually use docbook.org, but that's just me.) > > If you're on a system with the "docbook-dtds" package installed, your > system resolves entities through your local SGML catalog (in /etc/sgml) > before trying to hit the network, anyway. Sorry to reply to myself, but perhaps it would be interesting SomeDay(tm) to enter these things in /etc/sgml... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 1 23:33:03 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 19:33:03 -0400 Subject: Small about-fedora change Message-ID: <1178062383.5191.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> I made one more very small change in about-fedora -- our RSS feed aggregator should be called "Planet Fedora" to match the rest of our web sites and documents. Sorry about the extra string. The statistics are looking GREAT -- you guys are amazing! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 2 00:21:51 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 01 May 2007 20:21:51 -0400 Subject: README-BURNING-ISOS Message-ID: <1178065311.5191.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> We have a neat Making Fedora Discs guide, but it needs some extra love before the release. When I started worrying about how to update this document so late, and yet have it make the release, I realized I was thinking about it all wrong: 1. Including the document in the fedora-release-notes is relatively worthless; once you have a system installed, you've either burned the discs already, or didn't need to. 2. Putting the files on the ISO images is similarly worthless. I was thinking the following idea is much more logical: 1. Torrents and mirrors should carry a single tiny ASCII file, README-Making-Discs, which will be a one-sentence link to http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/ -- that URL carries the full document in all its newfound glory. 2. Revising the existing R-B-I document is not a big job and will only take about an hour -- but it will produce a lot of fuzzy strings for translators. However, they'll have several weeks to fix the PO files, because the real document can be published on the fly, as late as the day before the release (and errata issued just like any other doc). Comments? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ncorrare at fedoraproject.org Wed May 2 14:57:57 2007 From: ncorrare at fedoraproject.org (Nicolas Antonio Corrarello) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 11:57:57 -0300 Subject: Artwork Proposal for Fedora (Worth watching) Message-ID: <4638A6F5.1040900@fedoraproject.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 We should use for our new CD-Cover something like this from ubuntu - -- http://bp1.blogger.com/_vPl4ID4L64Q/Rie68NCY33I/AAAAAAAAACU/1wTqKIr0whg/s1600-h/ubuntu_5-1.11.jpg - - -- Nicolas A. Corrarello p: +54 (11) 4341-6233 Global Support Services LATAM c: +54 (911) 6398-5974 Red Hat Inc. e: ncorrare at redhat.com GPG Key: DFC893EE h: www.latam.redhat.com GPG Fingerprint: 5C93 42DA 98E1 4EEF B24B 7F8C E145 B2F9 DFC8 93EE Import my key: $ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-key 0xDFC893EE Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit San Diego | May 9-11, 2007 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/2007 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGOKbT4UWy+d/Ik+4RAuK8AJ920gnIFibk1D84tPxr6ib40yyWpACgnJX1 MLISBcEDYW4vce/SNpioCPg= =+GuB -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cranston_tom at asapchoice.com Wed May 2 18:11:27 2007 From: cranston_tom at asapchoice.com (Thomas W. Cranston) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 13:11:27 -0500 Subject: [Spam] Artwork Proposal for Fedora (Worth watching) In-Reply-To: <4638A6F5.1040900@fedoraproject.org> References: <4638A6F5.1040900@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4638D44F.8060100@asapchoice.com> Nicolas Antonio Corrarello wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > We should use for our new CD-Cover something like this from ubuntu > > - -- > http://bp1.blogger.com/_vPl4ID4L64Q/Rie68NCY33I/AAAAAAAAACU/1wTqKIr0whg/s1600-h/ubuntu_5-1.11.jpg > - - -- > Nicolas A. Corrarello p: +54 (11) 4341-6233 > Global Support Services LATAM c: +54 (911) 6398-5974 > Red Hat Inc. e: ncorrare at redhat.com > GPG Key: DFC893EE h: www.latam.redhat.com > GPG Fingerprint: 5C93 42DA 98E1 4EEF B24B 7F8C E145 B2F9 DFC8 93EE > Import my key: $ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-key 0xDFC893EE > Learn. Network. Experience open source. > Red Hat Summit San Diego | May 9-11, 2007 > Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/2007 > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFGOKbT4UWy+d/Ik+4RAuK8AJ920gnIFibk1D84tPxr6ib40yyWpACgnJX1 > MLISBcEDYW4vce/SNpioCPg= > =+GuB > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Whats the back (bottom?) side look like? Tom From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed May 2 18:17:22 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 19:17:22 +0100 Subject: Join page Message-ID: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> Evening all, I was just looking at the DocsProject/Join page and was wondering if anyone had ever considered condensing it? There's a huge amount of information on there and I just thought it might make it less overwhelming for people looking to get involved if we had a really simple Join page which linked of to the other bits of information. Some sections have very similar content too, like the "Signing up" and "Checklist" sections. Thought it was appropriate to the recent conversations about recruiting and retaining. Just a crazy thought anyway... Hope everyone is well! Jon From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 2 19:00:03 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 15:00:03 -0400 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 19:17 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Evening all, > > I was just looking at the DocsProject/Join page and was wondering if > anyone had ever considered condensing it? There's a huge amount of > information on there and I just thought it might make it less > overwhelming for people looking to get involved if we had a really > simple Join page which linked of to the other bits of information. > > Some sections have very similar content too, like the "Signing up" and > "Checklist" sections. Thought it was appropriate to the recent > conversations about recruiting and retaining. > > Just a crazy thought anyway... Not crazy at all. Please have at it. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed May 2 19:05:45 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:05:45 +0100 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> > Not crazy at all. Please have at it. Have at it? From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 2 19:18:26 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 00:48:26 +0530 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> Not crazy at all. Please have at it. > > Have at it? Do the changes you feel is necessary. Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed May 2 19:36:35 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 20:36:35 +0100 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> > > Have at it? > > Do the changes you feel is necessary. Oh lol, OK! Bit slow this evening... I'll have a crack :D Jon From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed May 2 21:45:32 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 22:45:32 +0100 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> OK, I've gone for it! A lot of the material I've simply pushed to new pages for now and will need editing to make them stand alone, but I think I will get to that tomorrow. What do people think? I personally would like to try and slim down everything under "Signing up" to make it less *big* (for lack of a better term). Jon From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 2 21:48:25 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 17:48:25 -0400 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178142505.10714.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 20:05 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Not crazy at all. Please have at it. > > Have at it? Whoops, is that a Yankeeism? :-) "Have a go at it"? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed May 2 21:48:49 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 2 May 2007 22:48:49 +0100 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705021448r7950fcb2l6d10c07de6119a62@mail.gmail.com> > What do people think? I personally would like to try and slim down > everything under "Signing up" to make it less *big* (for lack of a > better term). i.e. try to reduce the paragraphs to single lines where ever possible? > > Jon > From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 2 22:28:53 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 15:28:53 -0700 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 22:45 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > OK, > > I've gone for it! > > A lot of the material I've simply pushed to new pages for now and will > need editing to make them stand alone, but I think I will get to that > tomorrow. It looks good, thanks. At least 5x better than before -- roughly the amount of content you trimmed and moved as a multiplier :) > What do people think? I personally would like to try and slim down > everything under "Signing up" to make it less *big* (for lack of a > better term). They could be links to more info: * Get a GPG key ([How?] [Why?]) * Join the mailing list and send a self-introduction ([Where?] [How?] [Why?]) * Register for a bugzilla account ([Where?] [How?] [Why?]) * Register for a Fedora account ([Where?] [How?] [Why?]) You actually could then push the content either farther down the page or to a new page. It wouldn't have to be separate pages, either; it can all be a "Signing Up" page and you use Anchor() to deep link. Come to think of it ... is "Signing Up" an idiom that is ambiguous or confusing? Just curious ... - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 2 22:38:33 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 15:38:33 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Homepage link for sr relnotes] Message-ID: <1178145513.4646.130.camel@erato.phig.org> FYI. I failed to cross-post my reply back. :) -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Karsten Wade Reply-To: Fedora Translation Project List To: Fedora Translation Project List Subject: Re: Homepage link for sr relnotes Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 15:35:21 -0700 On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 22:49 +0100, Milo? Komar?evi? wrote: > Hi, > > Since we're now above the required 90% mark for the sr relnotes > translation, I expect it will be included with the final release? Excellent! > However, the link in the homepage module seems to incorrect, it > references "index-sr.html\" instead of (yet to be) > "RELEASE-NOTES-sr.html". I hope there is enough time before the freeze > to push this correction through? That's a funny typo, probably a "search and replace" mistake. It is fixed in CVS. We also have a few extra days because the freeze got moved until after the Core+Extras package merge happening today, so there is no doubt this fixed in time for the release. Thanks for spotting the bug! - Karsten -- Fedora-trans-list mailing list Fedora-trans-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 2 23:16:04 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 16:16:04 -0700 Subject: Wiki starting points? Drafts... In-Reply-To: <1177955550.4134.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1177881762.5943.38.camel@thabox.home> <1177948072.3470.142.camel@erato.phig.org> <1177955550.4134.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1178147764.4646.172.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 13:52 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 08:47 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > Fortunately, we also have a Style Guide which documents grammar, usage, > etc. for use in the official docs: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide Yes, but it doesn't cover voice[1]. We could set an overall voice that is a little different from e.g. traditional corporate technical content. Here are some that I could see us adopting: * Jokey (light-hearted) * Casual (mildly jokey, addition of more pronouns) * Metal ("This guide teaches you how to *brutalize* your Fedora install...") [1] Voice is the tone that writing takes. It is the overall tone (sarcastic, excited, didactic, bored, informative, etc.). It is also the individual character, which usually comes from a single writer (Neil Gaiman's voice is different from Stephen King's, Neal Stephenson's, and H.L. Mencken's.) > And don't forget that we can also update our Jargon Buster with these > terms, including a citation to Wikipedia, et al. Are we comfortable with setting a requirement for inclusion in the Fedora Glossary (was Jargon Buster)? Such as, "Include the term if the term has a special meaning in Fedora that is different or in addition to a meaning found in an upstream dictionary/glossary." For example, "yum repo" and "yum repository" could use a canonical definition. > > Heh, heh ... now that this has come up on list a few times recently > > (refer to the archives for more of the same), maybe I need to write all > > this up at DocsProject/Screenshots. :) > > How about in the Style Guide? Currently this is in the Documentation > Guide, but if it doesn't fit we could yank it from there and link to it > instead. Sure, StyleGuide. Maybe we'll eventually pick the Documentation Guide of all the meat and bury the carcass? It's not that the content isn't relevant, it's that it has found its way into more relevant or actively maintained places. Anyway ... - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fcdocs at fletchersweb.net Wed May 2 23:21:20 2007 From: fcdocs at fletchersweb.net (David Fletcher) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 00:21:20 +0100 Subject: README-BURNING-ISOS In-Reply-To: <1178065311.5191.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1178065311.5191.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200705030021.20372.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> On Wednesday 02 May 2007 01:21, Paul W. Frields wrote: > We have a neat Making Fedora Discs guide, but it needs some extra love > before the release. When I started worrying about how to update this > document so late, and yet have it make the release, I realized I was > thinking about it all wrong: > > 1. Including the document in the fedora-release-notes is relatively > worthless; once you have a system installed, you've either burned the > discs already, or didn't need to. > > 2. Putting the files on the ISO images is similarly worthless. > > I was thinking the following idea is much more logical: > > 1. Torrents and mirrors should carry a single tiny ASCII file, > README-Making-Discs, which will be a one-sentence link to > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/ -- that URL carries > the full document in all its newfound glory. > > 2. Revising the existing R-B-I document is not a big job and will only > take about an hour -- but it will produce a lot of fuzzy strings for > translators. However, they'll have several weeks to fix the PO files, > because the real document can be published on the fly, as late as the > day before the release (and errata issued just like any other doc). > > Comments? Is this by any chance the document I started 15 months ago? The one I wrote with the intention of it being included in the ISO download folders for FC5? I followed the link provided above, and it's changed a lot but parts of it still look vaguely familiar. No matter, it's taking a while, but so long as it gets there in the end I'm happy to have contributed and made a small difference to the good. Dave Fletcher -- Registered Linux user number 393408 From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 3 00:13:51 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 20:13:51 -0400 Subject: README-BURNING-ISOS In-Reply-To: <200705030021.20372.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> References: <1178065311.5191.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200705030021.20372.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> Message-ID: <1178151231.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 00:21 +0100, David Fletcher wrote: > On Wednesday 02 May 2007 01:21, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > We have a neat Making Fedora Discs guide, but it needs some extra love > > before the release. When I started worrying about how to update this > > document so late, and yet have it make the release, I realized I was > > thinking about it all wrong: > > > > 1. Including the document in the fedora-release-notes is relatively > > worthless; once you have a system installed, you've either burned the > > discs already, or didn't need to. > > > > 2. Putting the files on the ISO images is similarly worthless. > > > > I was thinking the following idea is much more logical: > > > > 1. Torrents and mirrors should carry a single tiny ASCII file, > > README-Making-Discs, which will be a one-sentence link to > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/ -- that URL carries > > the full document in all its newfound glory. > > > > 2. Revising the existing R-B-I document is not a big job and will only > > take about an hour -- but it will produce a lot of fuzzy strings for > > translators. However, they'll have several weeks to fix the PO files, > > because the real document can be published on the fly, as late as the > > day before the release (and errata issued just like any other doc). > > > > Comments? > > Is this by any chance the document I started 15 months ago? The one I wrote > with the intention of it being included in the ISO download folders for FC5? > I followed the link provided above, and it's changed a lot but parts of it > still look vaguely familiar. > > No matter, it's taking a while, but so long as it gets there in the end I'm > happy to have contributed and made a small difference to the good. Yes, you made a BIG difference by contributing this. The doc you see was captured from the wiki and subsequently edited. Here's a couple mirrors that carry it: http://mirror.hiwaay.net/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/iso/ ftp://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/iso/ Unfortunately, these are in the minority, and they're only carrying the US English version. Since it is difficult to get mirrors to host *all* the translations of this document, we may be far better off including a one-sentence README pointing to the new canonical publication: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/ If you want a glow of pride, check out all the languages your doc appears in now! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 3 00:19:34 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 20:19:34 -0400 Subject: Wiki starting points? Drafts... In-Reply-To: <1178147764.4646.172.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1177881762.5943.38.camel@thabox.home> <1177948072.3470.142.camel@erato.phig.org> <1177955550.4134.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1178147764.4646.172.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1178151574.4319.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 16:16 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 13:52 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-04-30 at 08:47 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > Fortunately, we also have a Style Guide which documents grammar, usage, > > etc. for use in the official docs: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide > > Yes, but it doesn't cover voice[1]. We could set an overall voice that > is a little different from e.g. traditional corporate technical content. > Here are some that I could see us adopting: > > * Jokey (light-hearted) > * Casual (mildly jokey, addition of more pronouns) > * Metal ("This guide teaches you how to *brutalize* your Fedora > install...") > > [1] Voice is the tone that writing takes. It is the overall tone > (sarcastic, excited, didactic, bored, informative, etc.). It is also > the individual character, which usually comes from a single writer (Neil > Gaiman's voice is different from Stephen King's, Neal Stephenson's, and > H.L. Mencken's.) I know which one I'm going to use... BESERKER!!! ;-D > > And don't forget that we can also update our Jargon Buster with these > > terms, including a citation to Wikipedia, et al. > > Are we comfortable with setting a requirement for inclusion in the > Fedora Glossary (was Jargon Buster)? Such as, "Include the term if the > term has a special meaning in Fedora that is different or in addition to > a meaning found in an upstream dictionary/glossary." For example, "yum > repo" and "yum repository" could use a canonical definition. +1. > > > Heh, heh ... now that this has come up on list a few times recently > > > (refer to the archives for more of the same), maybe I need to write all > > > this up at DocsProject/Screenshots. :) > > > > How about in the Style Guide? Currently this is in the Documentation > > Guide, but if it doesn't fit we could yank it from there and link to it > > instead. > > Sure, StyleGuide. > > Maybe we'll eventually pick the Documentation Guide of all the meat and > bury the carcass? > > It's not that the content isn't relevant, it's that it has found its way > into more relevant or actively maintained places. I think the main problem is that our toolchain is like much of Fedora development, and changes faster than the docs can keep up. Since this particular doc is more or less *about* those tools, built *by* those tools, it's exponentially harder to keep updated. This may get easier in a XHTML <-> DocBook/XML Plone-y world... In the meantime, sure, cutting this down to size would be good. I've done a big update in the module structure area, but it probably needs new work since there are changes made in just the last 30 days that affect it. See, there you go... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 3 01:30:02 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 18:30:02 -0700 Subject: README-BURNING-ISOS In-Reply-To: <200705030021.20372.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> References: <1178065311.5191.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200705030021.20372.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> Message-ID: <1178155802.4646.182.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 00:21 +0100, David Fletcher wrote: > Is this by any chance the document I started 15 months ago? The one I wrote > with the intention of it being included in the ISO download folders for FC5? > I followed the link provided above, and it's changed a lot but parts of it > still look vaguely familiar. It in fact is that document, evolved to now. > No matter, it's taking a while, but so long as it gets there in the end I'm > happy to have contributed and made a small difference to the good. Not just your idea and authorship, but your perseverance in not letting us forget it. Um, now as to why it never made it in the last two ISO folders, I'm just not sure. It sure made it into the fedora-release-notes package[1], which as Paul pointed out is pretty much worthless. Anyway, the new plan is great, AFAIC. Also, I think Paul was looking for volunteers to help update the document. Work could be divided by OS, so if you have access to e.g. Windows Vista or Mac OS X Leopard or such, here's something to help with. - Karsten [1] In ten languages, too: rpm -ql fedora-release-notes | grep README-BURNING-ISOs /usr/share/doc/HTML/README-BURNING-ISOS-el.txt /usr/share/doc/HTML/README-BURNING-ISOS-en_US.txt /usr/share/doc/HTML/README-BURNING-ISOS-es.txt /usr/share/doc/HTML/README-BURNING-ISOS-it.txt /usr/share/doc/HTML/README-BURNING-ISOS-pl.txt /usr/share/doc/HTML/README-BURNING-ISOS-pt.txt /usr/share/doc/HTML/README-BURNING-ISOS-pt_BR.txt /usr/share/doc/HTML/README-BURNING-ISOS-ru.txt /usr/share/doc/HTML/README-BURNING-ISOS-sv.txt /usr/share/doc/HTML/README-BURNING-ISOS-zh_CN.txt -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 3 01:32:17 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 18:32:17 -0700 Subject: README-BURNING-ISOS In-Reply-To: <1178151231.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1178065311.5191.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200705030021.20372.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> <1178151231.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1178155937.4646.185.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 20:13 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > http://mirror.hiwaay.net/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/iso/ > ftp://ftp-stud.fht-esslingen.de/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/iso/ Ha! I based my understanding from our own mirror: http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/6/i386/iso/ ... which strangely has it in no languages. :( -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu May 3 03:15:01 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 08:45:01 +0530 Subject: README-BURNING-ISOS In-Reply-To: <1178151231.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1178065311.5191.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200705030021.20372.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> <1178151231.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <463953B5.20304@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/ > > If you want a glow of pride, check out all the languages your doc > appears in now! I was thinking of posting a query on this before why does the main docs page at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ have a list of language codes instead of full descriptions like the above page? Is it because of space constraints. It might be still be better to list in two columns instead of abbreviating it. The above document doesn't appear in the main page either. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 3 04:54:54 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 02 May 2007 21:54:54 -0700 Subject: README-BURNING-ISOS In-Reply-To: <463953B5.20304@fedoraproject.org> References: <1178065311.5191.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200705030021.20372.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> <1178151231.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <463953B5.20304@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1178168094.4646.191.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 08:45 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > I was thinking of posting a query on this before why does the main docs > page at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ have a list of language codes > instead of full descriptions like the above page? Is it because of space > constraints. It might be still be better to list in two columns instead > of abbreviating it. Paul just made the change to readme-burning-isos/index.html to make those appear. The story on the main page is that I did a minimal amount to make it accurate and better than it was before, but I didn't try for major improvements for what is a temporary situation. > The above document doesn't appear in the main page either. Ah, you are correct. In fact, a number of documents went to the -en version as some type of default, yet it was inconsistent. I made all links got to the document landing page, where all the locales are listed. That's probably enough for now. Time is currently better spent on getting Plone ready to do this job for us. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu May 3 07:48:49 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 10:48:49 +0300 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> On 5/3/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > It looks good, thanks. At least 5x better than before -- roughly the > amount of content you trimmed and moved as a multiplier :) > I heartily agree. > > What do people think? I personally would like to try and slim down > > everything under "Signing up" to make it less *big* (for lack of a > > better term). > Anything to make the sign-up process less intimidating is good. > They could be links to more info: > > * Get a GPG key ([How?] [Why?]) > * Join the mailing list and send a self-introduction ([Where?] [How?] > [Why?]) > * Register for a bugzilla account ([Where?] [How?] [Why?]) > * Register for a Fedora account ([Where?] [How?] [Why?]) > +1 Also, this might be a good time to retire the fedora-dsco-list and remove the reference to it on this page. See https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2007-April/msg00001.html for details. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu May 3 09:25:30 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 10:25:30 +0100 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705030225t1aa4c4bbsbb889c0c67637c19@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I've finished pushing the content out and trimmed the "Signing up" section with anchor links to further info on a new page entitled "CheckList". I think this checklist page will need a bit more work and also the other new page I created, CompleteReference (i.e. a generic page that links to all our more detailed info, I've basically used it as a dumping ground for a lot of the material that was on the DP/Join page) will need to be tidied at some point. I'm happy to do both of these things but I think I'm all joined out right now...Next few days perhaps :D The other thing that I think would be awesome to put on the DP/Join page is a link to a "Todo" list - I'm not sure I have the knowledge of everything going on to create that myself however. Still, a nice future goal? Cheers, Jon From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 3 12:33:39 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 08:33:39 -0400 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705030225t1aa4c4bbsbb889c0c67637c19@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705030225t1aa4c4bbsbb889c0c67637c19@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178195619.4295.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 10:25 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi all, > > I've finished pushing the content out and trimmed the "Signing up" > section with anchor links to further info on a new page entitled > "CheckList". > > I think this checklist page will need a bit more work and also the > other new page I created, CompleteReference (i.e. a generic page that > links to all our more detailed info, I've basically used it as a > dumping ground for a lot of the material that was on the DP/Join page) > will need to be tidied at some point. > > I'm happy to do both of these things but I think I'm all joined out > right now...Next few days perhaps :D > > The other thing that I think would be awesome to put on the DP/Join > page is a link to a "Todo" list - I'm not sure I have the knowledge of > everything going on to create that myself however. Still, a nice > future goal? I did a smidgen of editing, fixing a link and some usage. It's always good to have our online documentation follow the online style guide! ;-) Refer to the page info for diffs and hints. Great work Jon -- it's a HUGE improvement! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 3 12:40:36 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 08:40:36 -0400 Subject: README-BURNING-ISOS In-Reply-To: <1178168094.4646.191.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1178065311.5191.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200705030021.20372.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> <1178151231.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <463953B5.20304@fedoraproject.org> <1178168094.4646.191.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1178196036.4295.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-05-02 at 21:54 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 08:45 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > I was thinking of posting a query on this before why does the main docs > > page at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ have a list of language codes > > instead of full descriptions like the above page? Is it because of space > > constraints. It might be still be better to list in two columns instead > > of abbreviating it. > > Paul just made the change to readme-burning-isos/index.html to make > those appear. The story on the main page is that I did a minimal amount > to make it accurate and better than it was before, but I didn't try for > major improvements for what is a temporary situation. Not to mention which, putting the language names all on the main page isn't helpful, since it just puts too much content on the page. We already know that too many links on a page is bad for usability. In the meantime, simply linking the document name to a page full of localized language names would be better, because Rahul is absolutely right that e.g. "italiano" is better than "it." What *would* be helpful is different pages, by locale, that include the translated titles of all the documentation, so for example, pt_BR speakers see "Guia R?pido de Tradu??o" instead of "Translation Quick Start Guide" on their page. > > The above document doesn't appear in the main page either. > > Ah, you are correct. In fact, a number of documents went to the -en > version as some type of default, yet it was inconsistent. I made all > links got to the document landing page, where all the locales are > listed. > > That's probably enough for now. Time is currently better spent on > getting Plone ready to do this job for us. :) Hear, hear -- Plone should be able to put up a different page for each user based on his or her locale. Something tells me this is going to be some work and growing pains, but that should be the goal. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gayathri.swa at gmail.com Thu May 3 12:49:28 2007 From: gayathri.swa at gmail.com (Gayathri Swaminathan) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 07:49:28 -0500 Subject: [Spam] Artwork Proposal for Fedora (Worth watching) In-Reply-To: <4638D44F.8060100@asapchoice.com> References: <4638A6F5.1040900@fedoraproject.org> <4638D44F.8060100@asapchoice.com> Message-ID: I am not sure if ya guys are just kidding around ( joking) But does'nt it look a tad bit insensitive somewhat for an ad? Gayathri On 5/2/07, Thomas W. Cranston wrote: > > Nicolas Antonio Corrarello wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > We should use for our new CD-Cover something like this from ubuntu > > > > - -- > > > http://bp1.blogger.com/_vPl4ID4L64Q/Rie68NCY33I/AAAAAAAAACU/1wTqKIr0whg/s1600-h/ubuntu_5-1.11.jpg > > - - -- > > Nicolas A. Corrarello p: +54 (11) 4341-6233 > > Global Support Services LATAM c: +54 (911) 6398-5974 > > Red Hat Inc. e: ncorrare at redhat.com > > GPG Key: DFC893EE h: www.latam.redhat.com > > GPG Fingerprint: 5C93 42DA 98E1 4EEF B24B 7F8C E145 B2F9 DFC8 93EE > > Import my key: $ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-key 0xDFC893EE > > Learn. Network. Experience open source. > > Red Hat Summit San Diego | May 9-11, 2007 > > Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/2007 > > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > > > iD8DBQFGOKbT4UWy+d/Ik+4RAuK8AJ920gnIFibk1D84tPxr6ib40yyWpACgnJX1 > > MLISBcEDYW4vce/SNpioCPg= > > =+GuB > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > Whats the back (bottom?) side look like? > > Tom > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Gayathri Swaminathan gpgkey: 3EFB3D39 Volunteer, FDP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu May 3 12:55:30 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 13:55:30 +0100 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <1178195619.4295.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705030225t1aa4c4bbsbb889c0c67637c19@mail.gmail.com> <1178195619.4295.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705030555g3de369efh8daecba4a5fe7736@mail.gmail.com> > I did a smidgen of editing, fixing a link and some usage. It's always > good to have our online documentation follow the online style guide! ;-) Oo sorry - I didn't make a conscious effort to stick to the guides as I thought it was an intro rather than a doc it might not apply! I'll keep it in mind for the future :D Jon > Refer to the page info for diffs and hints. Great work Jon -- it's a > HUGE improvement! > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 3 13:02:32 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 09:02:32 -0400 Subject: [Spam] Artwork Proposal for Fedora (Worth watching) In-Reply-To: References: <4638A6F5.1040900@fedoraproject.org> <4638D44F.8060100@asapchoice.com> Message-ID: <1178197352.4295.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 07:49 -0500, Gayathri Swaminathan wrote: > I am not sure if ya guys are just kidding around ( joking) > > But does'nt it look a tad bit insensitive somewhat for an ad? No point dragging this thread out any longer, let's move on. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu May 3 13:04:55 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 13:04:55 -0000 Subject: [Spam] Artwork Proposal for Fedora (Worth watching) In-Reply-To: References: <4638A6F5.1040900@fedoraproject.org> <4638D44F.8060100@asapchoice.com> Message-ID: <455B5A84.1070201@fedoraproject.org> Gayathri Swaminathan wrote: > I am not sure if ya guys are just kidding around ( joking) > > But does'nt it look a tad bit insensitive somewhat for an ad? > > Gayathri I don't know about insensitive (that might be a matter of culture and tastes) but it sure does look cheap to me. I don't think anyone in Fedora is interested in doing this atleast officially. For one thing people would have to be in rather awkward positions to emulate the Fedora logo. This discussion does not belong here anyway. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 3 13:15:54 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 03 May 2007 09:15:54 -0400 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705030555g3de369efh8daecba4a5fe7736@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705030225t1aa4c4bbsbb889c0c67637c19@mail.gmail.com> <1178195619.4295.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705030555g3de369efh8daecba4a5fe7736@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178198154.4295.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 13:55 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > I did a smidgen of editing, fixing a link and some usage. It's always > > good to have our online documentation follow the online style guide! ;-) > > Oo sorry - I didn't make a conscious effort to stick to the guides as > I thought it was an intro rather than a doc it might not apply! I'll > keep it in mind for the future :D Not a problem, that's why we all have wiki watching available -- as Karsten is so fond of saying, "Many hands make lighter work." -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mspevack at redhat.com Thu May 3 18:05:29 2007 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 14:05:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Artwork Proposal for Fedora (Worth watching) In-Reply-To: <4638A6F5.1040900@fedoraproject.org> References: <4638A6F5.1040900@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 2 May 2007, Nicolas Antonio Corrarello wrote: > We should use for our new CD-Cover something like this from ubuntu This sort of a link is inappropriate from anyone, but even more so from a Red Hat employee. I have asked that the link be removed from the public archives. Don't post things like that again. While it might not seem like a big deal to you, it has generated some complaints, and rightfully so. Thank you, Max -- Max Spevack + http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MaxSpevack + gpg key -- http://spevack.org/max.asc + fingerprint -- CD52 5E72 369B B00D 9E9A 773E 2FDB CB46 5A17 CF21 From fcdocs at fletchersweb.net Thu May 3 18:11:12 2007 From: fcdocs at fletchersweb.net (David Fletcher) Date: Thu, 3 May 2007 19:11:12 +0100 Subject: README-BURNING-ISOS In-Reply-To: <1178155802.4646.182.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1178065311.5191.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200705030021.20372.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> <1178155802.4646.182.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <200705031911.31630.fcdocs@fletchersweb.net> On Thursday 03 May 2007 02:30, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 00:21 +0100, David Fletcher wrote: > > Is this by any chance the document I started 15 months ago? The one I > > wrote with the intention of it being included in the ISO download folders > > for FC5? I followed the link provided above, and it's changed a lot but > > parts of it still look vaguely familiar. > > It in fact is that document, evolved to now. > Maybe I'll look for something else to write, now that this one is just about out of the way. Dave -- Registered Linux user number 393408 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri May 4 14:12:56 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 07:12:56 -0700 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178287976.4218.107.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 10:48 +0300, John Babich wrote: > Also, this might be a good time to retire the fedora-dsco-list and > remove the reference to it on this page. See > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2007-April/msg00001.html > for details. +1 -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 4 19:18:20 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 15:18:20 -0400 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <1178287976.4218.107.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> <1178287976.4218.107.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1178306300.25786.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 07:12 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 10:48 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > > Also, this might be a good time to retire the fedora-dsco-list and > > remove the reference to it on this page. See > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2007-April/msg00001.html > > for details. > > +1 +1. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat May 5 05:23:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 22:23:22 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Beats/PackageNotes" by PaulFrields] Message-ID: <1178342602.4218.139.camel@erato.phig.org> -------- Forwarded Message -------- > The comment on the change is: > Z/P note for F7. Sure wish someone would have got this on the Beats for the ISO spins. +1 To mitigate such damage, I had an idea. Let's insert at the top of each XML file a link to the latest release notes. We could even just copy/paste the already translated admonition that is at the top of Welcome.xml: Latest Release Notes on the Web These release notes may be updated. Visit http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/ to view the latest release notes for Fedora. That way we can do it after we get all the PO files back and before we hand off to releng. - Karsten, applying bandages as solutions -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat May 5 05:31:44 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 22:31:44 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Beats/Kernel" by RahulSundaram] Message-ID: <1178343104.4218.146.camel@erato.phig.org> Comments inline below ('twixt tags) ... -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: fedorawiki-noreply at fedoraproject.org To: fedorawiki-noreply at fedoraproject.org Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Beats/Kernel" by RahulSundaram Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 19:27:34 -0000 Dear Wiki user, You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Fedora Project Wiki" for change notification. The following page has been changed by RahulSundaram: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Kernel?action=diff&rev2=105&rev1=104 The comment on the change is: I think this fits here better I considered putting it here, but then I thought, "Where would someone who is wondering about support for a sound card look: Multimedia or Kernel?" Now, we who know Linux know that a sound card requires a kernel module, etc. But is that how an ISA sound card user is going to think about it? To be honest, I actually expect most folks would look for "Is my sound card supported?" under something such as "hardware", "sound cards", or "multimedia". What do the rest of you think? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Refer to http://kernel.org/pub/linux/docs/lkml/reporting-bugs.html for information on reporting bugs in the Linux kernel. You may also use http://bugzilla.redhat.com for reporting bugs that are specific to Fedora. === Preparing for Kernel Development === Fedora [[GetVal(DocsDict,BeatsVer)]] does not include the kernel-source package provided by older versions since only the kernel-devel package is required now to build external modules. Configured sources are available, as described in the kernel flavors section. [[Admonition("important", "Custom Kernel Building", "For information on kernel development and working with custom kernels, refer to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/CustomKernel.")]] + === ISA Sound Cards === + + The kernel in Fedora 7 no longer loads modules by default for ISA + sound cards. Load the module by hand {{{modprobe module-name}}} or by + putting an entry in `/etc/modprobe.conf`. For example, for the + Creative SoundBlaster AWE64: + + {{{install snd-sbawe + }}} + -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat May 5 05:37:09 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 11:07:09 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Beats/Kernel" by RahulSundaram] In-Reply-To: <1178343104.4218.146.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1178343104.4218.146.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <463C1805.5080902@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > > I considered putting it here, but then I thought, "Where would someone > who is wondering about support for a sound card look: Multimedia or > Kernel?" Now, we who know Linux know that a sound card requires a > kernel module, etc. But is that how an ISA sound card user is going to > think about it? To be honest, I actually expect most folks would look > for "Is my sound card supported?" under something such as "hardware", > "sound cards", or "multimedia". > > What do the rest of you think? > I am not sure whether ISA cards are not supported or whether it is a bug. Also my suggestion is to completely remove the multimedia section. It does not change from release to release, is duplicated and unnecessarily increases the length of the notes. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Sat May 5 13:52:08 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 09:52:08 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Beats/Kernel" by RahulSundaram] In-Reply-To: <463C1805.5080902@fedoraproject.org> References: <1178343104.4218.146.camel@erato.phig.org> <463C1805.5080902@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1178373128.3750.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-05-05 at 11:07 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: > > > > I considered putting it here, but then I thought, "Where would someone > > who is wondering about support for a sound card look: Multimedia or > > Kernel?" Now, we who know Linux know that a sound card requires a > > kernel module, etc. But is that how an ISA sound card user is going to > > think about it? To be honest, I actually expect most folks would look > > for "Is my sound card supported?" under something such as "hardware", > > "sound cards", or "multimedia". > > > > What do the rest of you think? > > > > I am not sure whether ISA cards are not supported or whether it is a > bug. Also my suggestion is to completely remove the multimedia section. > It does not change from release to release, is duplicated and > unnecessarily increases the length of the notes. You could say much the same thing about the ProjectOverview. But I too can see removing material in Multimedia other than the first paragraph (with the important link to the wiki, where most of this already appears). Mark this as a TODO for post-F7, since it's not a showstopper by any means. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat May 5 13:52:17 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 09:52:17 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Beats/Kernel" by RahulSundaram] In-Reply-To: <1178343104.4218.146.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1178343104.4218.146.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1178373137.3750.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 22:31 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > Comments inline below ('twixt tags) ... > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: fedorawiki-noreply at fedoraproject.org > To: fedorawiki-noreply at fedoraproject.org > Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Beats/Kernel" by > RahulSundaram > Date: Fri, 04 May 2007 19:27:34 -0000 > > Dear Wiki user, > > You have subscribed to a wiki page or wiki category on "Fedora Project Wiki" for change notification. > > The following page has been changed by RahulSundaram: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Kernel?action=diff&rev2=105&rev1=104 > > The comment on the change is: > I think this fits here better > > > I considered putting it here, but then I thought, "Where would someone > who is wondering about support for a sound card look: Multimedia or > Kernel?" Now, we who know Linux know that a sound card requires a > kernel module, etc. But is that how an ISA sound card user is going to > think about it? To be honest, I actually expect most folks would look > for "Is my sound card supported?" under something such as "hardware", > "sound cards", or "multimedia". > > What do the rest of you think? > That was my first thought too. As it exists right now, the note is in both places, which isn't necessarily a huge problem, although it looks a bit crufty that way. We do have to balance the needs of users against technical rigor. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Sat May 5 19:29:43 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 05 May 2007 20:29:43 +0100 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <1178306300.25786.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <1178132403.6896.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> <1178287976.4218.107.camel@erato.phig.org> <1178306300.25786.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <463CDB27.6040603@glezos.com> O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 07:12 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: >> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 10:48 +0300, John Babich wrote: >> >>> Also, this might be a good time to retire the fedora-dsco-list and >>> remove the reference to it on this page. See >>> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2007-April/msg00001.html >>> for details. >> +1 > > +1. I'm a +1 for this as well. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun May 6 05:24:46 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 6 May 2007 08:24:46 +0300 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <463CDB27.6040603@glezos.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> <1178287976.4218.107.camel@erato.phig.org> <1178306300.25786.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <463CDB27.6040603@glezos.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705052224v23b8d92apd042be26ed3048cb@mail.gmail.com> On 5/5/07, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > O/H Paul W. Frields ??????: > > On Fri, 2007-05-04 at 07:12 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > >> On Thu, 2007-05-03 at 10:48 +0300, John Babich wrote: > >> > >>> Also, this might be a good time to retire the fedora-dsco-list and > >>> remove the reference to it on this page. See > >>> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/2007-April/msg00001.html > >>> for details. > >> +1 > > > > +1. > > I'm a +1 for this as well. > Since there was such a consensus, I went ahead and pulled the reference to fedora-dsco-list from the "CompleteReference" page, which is linked from the new "Join" page. Is there a procedure for retiring the actual mailing list? John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 6 17:55:51 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 10:55:51 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-06 IRC log Message-ID: <1178474151.4218.151.camel@erato.phig.org> The raw text is below, and attached is a nice output from irclog2html.py :) 09:06 < stickster> :-) 09:06 < quaid> there :) 09:07 < stickster> Relnotes translation status is documented on wiki at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics 09:07 < couf> hah :) 09:07 < stickster> Making great progress in smaller modules. Release notes module, less so. 09:07 < stickster> There are several locales for relnotes done, though -- notably es, pt, pt_BR and sr if memory serves 09:07 < stickster> I think el and zh_CN are either done or almost done too 09:07 < quaid> should we drop an email to the in-danger languages? is that easily done? 09:08 < stickster> I don't have membership on the per-lang lists, but I can certainly send an email to f-trans-l with a summary 09:09 < couf> 1 e-mailadress to all lang-lists 09:09 * stickster shakes couf awake 09:09 < glezos> Here are some key people for languages: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Teams 09:10 * couf thanks stickster 09:12 * glezos will send an email to -trans-de (german) 'cause they seem a bit inactive 09:12 < stickster> glezos: You may be able to just forward my email -- going to f-trans-l in a minute or two 09:12 < glezos> ok 09:14 < quaid> well ... anything else to do there? 09:14 < quaid> when do we have to drop the package to RelEng 09:15 < stickster> Around the 10th AIUI 09:15 < stickster> I will certainly coordinate with Jesse since I'll see him in DS 09:15 < stickster> *SD 09:15 < quaid> ok 09:15 < stickster> It's possible there could be a day or two of slide time given the Summit 09:15 < glezos> stickster: please remember to remind the (new) deadline for translations in your mail 09:16 < stickster> Yup, doing so -- sent it before, sending it again 09:17 < stickster> OK, off 09:18 < stickster> IG status: doing some heavy refactoring today, hope to have the whole thing ready in ~48 hours 09:18 -!- aalamS [n=aalam at 59.94.178.183] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:18 < quaid> quick side question ... 09:18 < quaid> are we Ok with the idea of merging all project tasks into DP/Tasks? 09:19 < quaid> it's "different" from other projects; we adoped the TaskSchedule from e.g. FESCo, and I sort of hate it :) 09:19 * stickster gives +1, we need to simplify... and I hate it too :-) 09:19 < quaid> ok 09:19 * quaid works on that in the background, so he can get a list of "Guides for F7" on Tasks 09:20 < glezos> +1 here 09:21 < couf> +1 here aswell 09:22 < jmbuser> simplifying is good 09:23 < stickster> BTW, thanks to the folks cleaning up our project page. Much easier to read and navigate now! 09:23 < jmbuser> JonRob deserves a round of applause 09:23 < couf> +1, thanks JonRob 09:23 < JonRob> jmbuser: you'll make me blush 09:24 < JonRob> glad you'll like it tho :D 09:25 < glezos> :) 09:25 * quaid does a golf clap 09:25 < quaid> jmbuser: tell us about CompleteReference 09:26 < glezos> this is a great example on how a new member could do something really useful for a project 09:26 < quaid> fresh perspective + enthusiasm == life blood :) 09:27 < JonRob> the DP/Tasks page would be a good addition to the join page 09:27 < JonRob> help other newbies get involved 09:27 < quaid> yes! 09:27 < quaid> that is exacly the reason, to get all the real tasks in one place, organizes by difficulty, etc. 09:28 < JonRob> yeah 09:28 < JonRob> cool :D 09:28 < couf> indeed, keep it simple and people will want to jump in 09:29 < glezos> a list with simple, hands-on tasks each one having a mentor is a great way to encourage new members to get their hands dirty and have fun 09:29 < quaid> right ... instead of jamming all on that page, if a sub-project (e.g. release notes) needs lots of tasks, then we can just reference a sub-page (DP/Tasks/ReleaseNotes) 09:30 < JonRob> quaid: take away from the fear of random wiki edits! 09:30 < JonRob> (probably just me on that one :D) 09:31 < jmbuser> jmbuser: random wiki-editing is fun 09:31 * jmbuser talks to himself 09:32 < JonRob> lol 09:32 < couf> jmbuser: you seem to like doing that :-) 09:32 < jmbuser> couf: only lately :-) 09:32 * quaid wonders what happened to the Wiki patch that kept the table from floating under the darn right nav 09:32 < couf> well then an FYI: I'm working on to small FDP-howto's (wiki-2-xml and publishing to docs.fp.org) 09:32 < quaid> cool 09:33 < quaid> although on the later ... 09:33 < quaid> latter 09:33 < quaid> that exists, doesn't it? 09:33 < couf> yeah, but more refining it 09:33 < quaid> ok 09:33 < quaid> don't kill yourself on it, since we are sunsetting that method 09:33 * quaid didn't want to say "killing" 09:33 < couf> i've got some .conf-file around, making it just copy-paste -> restarting apache 09:34 < couf> quaid: gotcha 09:34 < stickster> couf: There is part of the publishing to docs.fp.org in the /cvs/fedora branch README 09:34 < stickster> couf: You may be able to leapfrog using that 09:34 < couf> stickster: thanks, didn't see that file 09:34 < stickster> under config/HOWTO* 09:36 < couf> well it's just mentioning a sort of differnet approach (alternative method), for people already running a site 09:36 < stickster> couf: cool 09:37 < couf> okay, should we move on? 09:38 < jmbuser> +1 09:38 < stickster> =1 09:38 < stickster> +1, sorry 09:39 < couf> we've had the IG, so that makes: admin guide and/or FUG 09:39 < quaid> so for the other guides 09:39 < quaid> I don't see us having them ready w/ translations by F7 09:39 < quaid> ready, yes; l10n, no 09:39 < quaid> which is not optimal, but its ok 09:40 < jmbuser> quaid: I have to agree with the FUG not being ready for translation 09:40 < quaid> so the list of target guides is: Installation, Administration, (New) Users ... 09:40 < quaid> Yum ... 09:40 < quaid> (Software Management) 09:40 < quaid> anything else? 09:41 < couf> guess not, we shouldn't go too far with this 09:41 < couf> having 4 guides ready will be nice 09:42 < quaid> yes, we can look at producing more between releases 09:42 < quaid> I see two general classes of guides 09:42 < quaid> one is essential to have with a new release 09:42 < quaid> those help you install, use, and administrate the system 09:42 < quaid> the other kind are more bonus, and go into different areas people care about 09:42 < quaid> some of those other kind may end up getting pulled later into e.g. Administrationg guide 09:43 < quaid> those are the "how to run your own repo" and etc. types 09:44 < JonRob> has the docs project ever considered trying to establish a set of less formal guides, to compliment the formal ones? 09:44 < quaid> how do you mean less-formal? 09:45 < quaid> wiki-based or? 09:45 < JonRob> quaid: good question, there's loads of info spread around fedora forums etc that are useful (and that don't have legal/patent issues) 09:45 < JonRob> but they're so scattered 09:45 < quaid> right 09:46 < JonRob> might be nice to have something that makes those easier to find 09:46 < JonRob> not same quality 09:46 < JonRob> but useful none the less 09:46 < quaid> well, all the fedoraunity sites are under the OPL, so that is one souce 09:46 -!- Netsplit pratchett.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: mether, stickster, tsAWAY, vpv, jmbuser, couf 09:46 < quaid> once we have document publishing out of the Wiki, we can turn the Wiki into 100% community collaborate documentation 09:46 < quaid> whoops 09:46 < quaid> hold on until the net desplits 09:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: jmbuser 09:46 -!- mether [i=ask at fedora/mether] has joined #fedora-docs 09:46 -!- Netsplit over, joins: stickster, couf, vpv, tsAWAY 09:47 < JonRob> sure 09:47 < JonRob> what was that? 09:47 < jmbuser> stickster: What happened? 09:48 < stickster> wacky 09:48 < quaid> netsplit 09:48 < quaid> we waited for you :) 09:48 < quaid> only thing I said was ... 09:48 < quaid> once we have document publishing out of the Wiki, we can turn the Wiki into 100% community collaborate documentation 09:48 < stickster> roger that 09:49 < quaid> JonRob: netsplit is when the servers we are chatting on drop their connection; we are all connected to a random IRC server that is all part of an IRC network, and sometimes a server splits off, then comes back 09:49 < quaid> (e.g. those guys were all on pratchett.freenode.net) 09:49 < JonRob> quaid: thanks :D 09:49 < glezos> Ideally we'll be able to fix the defragmentation of our docs and get them all in a "bigger picture" thing.. although low-level they will be modular. 09:49 < glezos> with the publication from the wiki we might be able to get this "right". 09:50 < jmbuser> +1 09:50 < quaid> yep 09:50 < quaid> it's going to be quite a productive summer with the two GSoC projects solving long standing problems :) 09:51 < jmbuser> yes! 09:52 < couf> will be great :) 09:52 < JonRob> is there anywhere with details on these longstanding problems?! 09:52 < stickster> let's hope so! 09:52 < stickster> oops, I meant that as a response to quaid 09:52 < JonRob> lol 09:53 < jmbuser> JonRob: May I humbly recommend http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlowIdeas ? 09:53 * jmbuser shamelessly plugs his doc 09:53 < JonRob> jmbuser: thanks 09:56 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Plone#head-bd3aef95681e959064f783eba789c6288d8f8b7b 09:56 < quaid> that's a good summary of one of the problems/solutions 09:57 < jmbuser> quaid: agreed 09:58 < JonRob> sounds like it will be useful once plone arrives! 10:00 * quaid sits down with some breakfast 10:00 < quaid> one of those days where the effort to make coffee is too much 10:00 < quaid> ok, what else ... 10:00 * stickster buried in PXE server provisioning 10:01 < quaid> whee! 10:02 < quaid> so, I'm going to get the Tasks page updated .... 10:02 < quaid> and I'll get the list-o-Guides up there as tasks 10:03 < quaid> anything else of the "other business" sort? 10:04 < couf> don't think so 10:04 < quaid> ok, then ... 10:04 * quaid does the final thirty second count down 10:04 < stickster> nope, nada here 10:05 < quaid> thanks for attending all 10:05 < jmbuser> quaid: Thanks 10:05 < JonRob> cheers all 10:05 < quaid> ... and thanks to our families and friends who put up with us giggling at IRC jokes in the middle of a Sunday :) 10:05 < quaid> 5 10:05 < quaid> 4 10:05 < quaid> 3 10:05 < quaid> 2 10:05 * quaid looks at stickster for the final joke 10:05 < quaid> 1 10:05 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 6 18:49:22 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 11:49:22 -0700 Subject: Join page In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0705052224v23b8d92apd042be26ed3048cb@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705021117u7d0275d2gf77b5a0d5c38107d@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021205m2f93157bs4b98c410c458d008@mail.gmail.com> <4638E402.7030505@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705021236x7ae622f0i24ff2af4317ce15@mail.gmail.com> <3263b11b0705021445m1bdb1d83g8b5aad204c762056@mail.gmail.com> <1178144933.4646.123.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705030048q30cafaf6h7e2d9697c7016cf9@mail.gmail.com> <1178287976.4218.107.camel@erato.phig.org> <1178306300.25786.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <463CDB27.6040603@glezos.com> <9d2c731f0705052224v23b8d92apd042be26ed3048cb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1178477362.4218.156.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-05-06 at 08:24 +0300, John Babich wrote: > Since there was such a consensus, I went ahead and pulled the > reference to fedora-dsco-list from the "CompleteReference" page, which > is linked from the new "Join" page. > > Is there a procedure for retiring the actual mailing list? Not necessarily, but I did all the right things. I sent a final message to the list, then I tweaked the settings so that all subscribers are moderated and no one can subscribe without approval. This gives list admins a chance to catch and redirect any messages. The archives are left open for posterity. That list is now retired. This is pretty much what Thorsten did when closing down fedora-extras-list, fwiw. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 6 22:29:18 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 15:29:18 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting YYYY-MM-DD Summary Message-ID: <1178490558.4218.175.camel@erato.phig.org> Attendees: ----------- Dimitris Glezos (glezos) Paul W. Frields (stickster) Bart Couvrier (couf) Karsten Wade (quaid) Jonathan Roberts (jonrob) Summary: --------- * stickster to email f-trans-l with a reminder about the 10 May deadline for translations for F7 to languages groups that have incomplete translations of the release notes * couf - coordinate with L10n leaders via f-trans-l to create one f-trans-announce that has *all* sub-lang project lists subscribed * glezos - forwarding deadline reminder to -trans-de, maybe others * stickster - coordinate fedora-release-notes package drop details with f13 * stickster - Installation Guide complete within 72 hours * quaid - consolidate all tasks to DocsProject/Tasks, then highlight the "good for new contributors" tasks at the top; include mentors for tasks, where possible * couf is working on a wiki2xml and "publishing to current PHP-based docs.fp.o" * Four guides for F7 release are: Installation, Users, Administration, Software Management; quaid to put these guides on the task list * FDP to look at what content to gather and work on *between* releases, such as gathering content from compatible community sources -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 6 22:33:13 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 06 May 2007 15:33:13 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2006-05-06 Summary Message-ID: <1178490793.4218.177.camel@erato.phig.org> (Pardon the double sending of this message; I forgot to change the Subject, and to proof read Bart's last name :) Attendees: ----------- Dimitris Glezos (glezos) Paul W. Frields (stickster) Bart Couvreur (couf) Karsten Wade (quaid) Jonathan Roberts (jonrob) Summary: --------- * stickster to email f-trans-l with a reminder about the 10 May deadline for translations for F7 to languages groups that have incomplete translations of the release notes * couf - coordinate with L10n leaders via f-trans-l to create one f-trans-announce that has *all* sub-lang project lists subscribed * glezos - forwarding deadline reminder to -trans-de, maybe others * stickster - coordinate fedora-release-notes package drop details with f13 * stickster - Installation Guide complete within 72 hours * quaid - consolidate all tasks to DocsProject/Tasks, then highlight the "good for new contributors" tasks at the top; include mentors for tasks, where possible * couf is working on a wiki2xml and "publishing to current PHP-based docs.fp.o" * Four guides for F7 release are: Installation, Users, Administration, Software Management; quaid to put these guides on the task list * FDP to look at what content to gather and work on *between* releases, such as gathering content from compatible community sources -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From paulo.banon at googlemail.com Mon May 7 12:36:43 2007 From: paulo.banon at googlemail.com (Paulo Santos) Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 14:36:43 +0200 Subject: Main wiki docs page Message-ID: <7a41c4bc0705070536u71069a46p6e8ad605a88ae4be@mail.gmail.com> Hi guys, Just something that came to my atention when adding the top banner in the Infrastructure wiki page... I think that all H1 headers are different and dont follow the same lines, as well as one page is lacking the top banner. I havent changed anything since im not "oficially" part of the Docs team, and this can be considered like the main pages for the FDP. You guys also have alot more experience in this are then me, so please feel free to correct me, i always like to learn :) In http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject you have: * Top banner * H1 - Fedora Documentation Then on the four links (Get Docs, Draft Docs, Translate Docs, Join the Team) Get Docs - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs * no Top banner * H1 - Fedora Project Documentation Draft Docs - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts * Top banner * H1 - Docs/Drafts Translate Docs - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation * Top banner * H1 - DocsProject/Translation Join the Team - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join * Top banner * H1 - Joining the Fedora Documentation Project Just my two cents, Paulo -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 7 21:48:30 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 03:18:30 +0530 Subject: Updated release notes for Fedora 7 Message-ID: <463F9EAE.4030102@fedoraproject.org> Hi There has been a number of important changes to the release notes made after the translation freeze for various reasons and we need to make sure we push an update. My suggestion would be to * Confirm that a note is there pointing to the updated web version from the one in the ISO image. * Update the web content to highlight the updated release notes a week before the Fedora 7 release so that we can refer to it elsewhere and during launch time * Provide a zero day update to the release notes package Comments? Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 7 21:58:40 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 17:58:40 -0400 Subject: Updated release notes for Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <463F9EAE.4030102@fedoraproject.org> References: <463F9EAE.4030102@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1178575120.3931.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 03:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > There has been a number of important changes to the release notes made > after the translation freeze for various reasons and we need to make > sure we push an update. Some of the most important changes were imported to the POT several days ago so the translators could work on them. They will be included in the ISO spin. You can see the actual content at: http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/devel/en_US/?root=docs > My suggestion would be to > > * Confirm that a note is there pointing to the updated web version > from the one in the ISO image. Already done. > * Update the web content to highlight the updated release notes a week > before the Fedora 7 release so that we can refer to it elsewhere and > during launch time Already planned. > * Provide a zero day update to the release notes package Yes, this should be easy enough, but it is highly dependent on the translation teams. After the ISO drop next week: * "Unfreeze" CVS for XML and POT/PO updates * Notify the translators about plans for an update * Set deadline for PO content, can be as late as 24-48 hours before final release * Gather and publish updates to web immediately, coordinate package release with RelEng -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 7 22:09:51 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 08 May 2007 03:39:51 +0530 Subject: Updated release notes for Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <1178575120.3931.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <463F9EAE.4030102@fedoraproject.org> <1178575120.3931.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <463FA3AF.3080803@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 03:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hi >> >> There has been a number of important changes to the release notes made >> after the translation freeze for various reasons and we need to make >> sure we push an update. > > Some of the most important changes were imported to the POT several days > ago so the translators could work on them. They will be included in the > ISO spin. You can see the actual content at: > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/devel/en_US/?root=docs That reminds me, what happened to the rawhide docs idea? > Yes, this should be easy enough, but it is highly dependent on the > translation teams. I think we should do async release for the errata and let translators catch up when they can. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 7 23:56:13 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 07 May 2007 19:56:13 -0400 Subject: Updated release notes for Fedora 7 In-Reply-To: <463FA3AF.3080803@fedoraproject.org> References: <463F9EAE.4030102@fedoraproject.org> <1178575120.3931.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <463FA3AF.3080803@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1178582173.3931.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 03:39 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 03:18 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Hi > >> > >> There has been a number of important changes to the release notes made > >> after the translation freeze for various reasons and we need to make > >> sure we push an update. > > > > Some of the most important changes were imported to the POT several days > > ago so the translators could work on them. They will be included in the > > ISO spin. You can see the actual content at: > > > > http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewcvs/release-notes/devel/en_US/?root=docs > > That reminds me, what happened to the rawhide docs idea? A good idea but nobody had the time or inclination to make it work. It worked sporadically for a while but build problems brought the scripting down IIRC. Contributions still gratefully accepted but we probably need a new host to make it work. If we had more people actively working in the project it would be nice for this to work, but personally I don't see it as a priority. > > Yes, this should be easy enough, but it is highly dependent on the > > translation teams. > > I think we should do async release for the errata and let translators > catch up when they can. Since this is a packaged product, certainly we can post work to the web as it's finished, but I would prefer not to do a zero day update without the translations; that would be a regression. The good news is that the differences should be small enough that the translators can hopefully not have any problem getting their pieces done quickly. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue May 8 18:44:42 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 00:14:42 +0530 Subject: Accessibility beat Message-ID: <4640C51A.2090901@fedoraproject.org> Hi Now that we have a long need accessibility beat at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Accessibility can someone add the important details from the thread at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-livecd-list/2007-May/msg00003.html? Anyone interested? Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Tue May 8 18:56:04 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 19:56:04 +0100 Subject: Accessibility beat In-Reply-To: <4640C51A.2090901@fedoraproject.org> References: <4640C51A.2090901@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705081156m29f05de6t84795989145ee925@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I could take a look at this but I probably won't be able to get on to it for a few days. If anyone else has a bit more spare time (which is probably very unlikely!) then I'd say they should jump on it ahead of me :D Best, Jon On 08/05/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Now that we have a long need accessibility beat at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Accessibility can someone add > the important details from the thread at > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-livecd-list/2007-May/msg00003.html? > > Anyone interested? > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From verduin at ameritech.net Wed May 9 14:59:28 2007 From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin) Date: Wed, 09 May 2007 14:59:28 +0000 Subject: REQUEST: specific narrow focus list for my participation Message-ID: <1178722768.17964.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org> Greetings, It is my expectation that your interests and mine are best served by my participation in some area that is a fairly narrow focus - networking. I could use your guidance. I am actively developing a documentation wiki for application software in ham radio digital communication topic area. It fits on my own FC platform and as such I expect to provide links to specific FC Docs project pages. That is the easy part which does not need help from yourselves. I have come upon a feature in FC-6 that does not function, has little written about it, but probably does not constitute a bug. It is here that I see I might fit. Specific to this subject, using the "ifconfig" statement to establish an alias IP address does produce what seems to be a valid definition, but when a packet is built it contains an incorrect source IP address. This is true on FC-6 up-to-date within weeks, but not true on ubuntu platform operated by an associate of mine. Until FC documentation contains the passage to describe the "should be" definition (that I can not locate and believe may not exist) I can not consider this situation to be a software bug. IF I am correct in my assertion, I am willing to draft a topic specific FC-docs text as well as the alert text to my software users regarding FC and an appropriate workaround. If I am not correct, perhaps I have wasted your time... So, I ask your direction into the group of developers for this subject area to explore the options at hand? Warmest regards from here, George From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu May 10 13:50:40 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 14:50:40 +0100 Subject: Accessibility beat In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705081156m29f05de6t84795989145ee925@mail.gmail.com> References: <4640C51A.2090901@fedoraproject.org> <3263b11b0705081156m29f05de6t84795989145ee925@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705100650y58723bdalb8e68ecc582f6cfe@mail.gmail.com> > On 08/05/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > Now that we have a long need accessibility beat at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Accessibility can someone add > > the important details from the thread at > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-livecd-list/2007-May/msg00003.html? > > > > Anyone interested? I've added some information, hope it's what you had in mind :D Jon > > > > Rahul > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > From guillermo.gomez at gmail.com Fri May 11 01:22:25 2007 From: guillermo.gomez at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?Ikd1aWxsZXJtbyBHw7NtZXogUy4i?=) Date: Thu, 10 May 2007 21:22:25 -0400 Subject: Reintroducing myself Message-ID: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> Hi, my name is Guillermo Gomez and would like to contribute with translating (spanish) some docs (dug, yum). Im still very confused how to make some progress on this regard. Can someone tutors me to get going ? kind regards -- Gomix Guillermo G?mez S. cms fedora-ve http://www.fedora-ve.org blog http://blog.gomix.org soporte fedora-ve en irc.freenode.net, canal fedora-ve lista email fedora-ve at googlegroups.com Key fingerprint = 3143 8BDB 48A2 3241 E62A B743 D177 CAD7 3205 A464 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Fri May 11 03:00:20 2007 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 11:00:20 +0800 Subject: Reintroducing myself In-Reply-To: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> References: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800705102000t64d9079djc9f2c6086fb3488@mail.gmail.com> 2007/5/11, "Guillermo G?mez S." : > Hi, my name is Guillermo Gomez and would like to contribute with > translating (spanish) some docs (dug, yum). > > Im still very confused how to make some progress on this regard. Can > someone tutors me to get going ? > > kind regards > Hi, What is your account in fedora account system? Let's see what you are going to do next. Have you signed the CLA? Have you requested for various cvs group access priviledge? -- bbbush ^_^ From guillermo.gomez at gmail.com Fri May 11 11:19:30 2007 From: guillermo.gomez at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Guillermo_G=F3mez?=) Date: Fri, 11 May 2007 07:19:30 -0400 Subject: Reintroducing myself In-Reply-To: <76e72f800705102000t64d9079djc9f2c6086fb3488@mail.gmail.com> References: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> <76e72f800705102000t64d9079djc9f2c6086fb3488@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <63a901070705110419u6794b7bs8de10ee7434e0acc@mail.gmail.com> On 5/10/07, Yuan Yijun wrote: > 2007/5/11, "Guillermo G?mez S." : > > Hi, my name is Guillermo Gomez and would like to contribute with > > translating (spanish) some docs (dug, yum). > > > > Im still very confused how to make some progress on this regard. Can > > someone tutors me to get going ? > > > > kind regards > > > > Hi, > > What is your account in fedora account system? Let's see what you are > going to do next. Have you signed the CLA? Have you requested for > various cvs group access priviledge? Here follows the info i have Fedora Account: gomix cla_done gomix None user approved Unneeded cla_fedora gomix None user approved Unneeded cvsdocs gomix user approved Unneeded cvsl10n gomix user unapproved None Bugzilla account (done), GPG adn SSH keys (done) thanks for your support Guillermo > -- > bbbush ^_^ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From stickster at gmail.com Sun May 13 16:26:18 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 12:26:18 -0400 Subject: Meeting rescheduling Message-ID: <1179073578.4422.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> For this week, since we have a number of people out of commission due to Mothers Day, jet lag, and other issues, are people willing to reschedule for later in the week? I see that if I can free up my lunch hour this Tuesday 15 May (1600 UTC/1200 Eastern/0900 Pacific), that will make everyone free according to the schedule we all posted at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes So can everyone do Tuesday at 1600 UTC then? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun May 13 16:45:47 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 19:45:47 +0300 Subject: Meeting rescheduling In-Reply-To: <1179073578.4422.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1179073578.4422.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705130945j76e01fa4k4071783acb9592@mail.gmail.com> On 5/13/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > For this week, since we have a number of people out of commission due to > Mothers Day, jet lag, and other issues, are people willing to reschedule > for later in the week? I see that if I can free up my lunch hour this > Tuesday 15 May (1600 UTC/1200 Eastern/0900 Pacific), that will make > everyone free according to the schedule we all posted at: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes > > So can everyone do Tuesday at 1600 UTC then? > Tuesday is fine for me. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From couf at skynet.be Sun May 13 16:55:51 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sun, 13 May 2007 18:55:51 +0200 Subject: Meeting rescheduling In-Reply-To: <1179073578.4422.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1179073578.4422.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <46474317.9030201@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul W. Frields schreef: > For this week, since we have a number of people out of commission due to > Mothers Day, jet lag, and other issues, are people willing to reschedule > for later in the week? I see that if I can free up my lunch hour this > Tuesday 15 May (1600 UTC/1200 Eastern/0900 Pacific), that will make > everyone free according to the schedule we all posted at: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes > > So can everyone do Tuesday at 1600 UTC then? > Sure, Tuesday is fine :) Bart - -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGR0MXrbZrKtk/D5MRAm4lAJ0W5GQRGj0SiLLo3VdeQ2HeJvanIACgkZlb GUMywjqvCWuyUISt9oWKXhI= =VkW6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 14 07:20:05 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 00:20:05 -0700 Subject: Meeting rescheduling In-Reply-To: <1179073578.4422.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1179073578.4422.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1179127205.3439.69.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-05-13 at 12:26 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > So can everyone do Tuesday at 1600 UTC then? +1 thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 14 15:19:24 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 14 May 2007 20:49:24 +0530 Subject: Making beagle optional In-Reply-To: <1179154692.3560.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1179154692.3560.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <46487DFC.3020402@fedoraproject.org> Alexander Larsson wrote: > I just commited a change to comps which makes beagle optional instead of > installed by default. The idea with beagle (and tracker) is nice, but > bugs keep on showing up causing the search daemon to use a lot of cpu > and/or memory, and this makes the default install look pretty bad. > > This is somewhat of a feature regression in the default install, but at > this point we just don't have the manpower to make it work 100%. But if > people want it its still there, and eventually it'll be good enought to > turn on by default without affecting the general distro quality. > A very good decision. Thank you. Rahul From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Tue May 15 20:17:27 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 21:17:27 +0100 Subject: Welcome wizzard Message-ID: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I don't know if this is off topic, or even just wishful thinking, but has any sort of a welcome wizard been considered? GNU/Linux (and Fedora) is different to what a lot of new users will have been used to, and some sort of a welcome wizard which just points them in the right direction for common items, i.e. software installer etc might be useful. I have no idea if other people think this would be worthwhile, or how you might go about creating it! Thoughts? Jon From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 16 00:18:53 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:18:53 -0700 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 21:17 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi all, > > I don't know if this is off topic, or even just wishful thinking, but > has any sort of a welcome wizard been considered? > > GNU/Linux (and Fedora) is different to what a lot of new users will > have been used to, and some sort of a welcome wizard which just points > them in the right direction for common items, i.e. software installer > etc might be useful. > > I have no idea if other people think this would be worthwhile, or how > you might go about creating it! Thoughts? You're thinking of a local/fat application? Something that is kicked off by the completion of firstboot? What about putting that into the welcome page for the browser, and auto-starting Firefox? Whatever that page looks or acts like, it could have a nicely visible "New Users Start Here" widget that kicks off what you are describing. It sounds like a confluence of tool and content/media creation, so it is like an interactive tour. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 16 00:25:48 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 15 May 2007 17:25:48 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-12 IRC log Message-ID: <1179275148.3439.185.camel@erato.phig.org> Also at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20070515 09:07 < quaid> 09:07 * quaid was busy handing out oatmeal and toast 09:08 * gomix my first... just listening 09:08 < stickster_work> hi everybody 09:08 < couf> hi all 09:08 < stickster_work> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 09:08 * EvilBob is still here 09:09 * stickster_work just posted an update to the relnotes schedule to closer match reality 09:09 < quaid> ok 09:09 < stickster_work> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule 09:09 < stickster_work> didn't do guide schedule tho' 09:10 < quaid> we can discuss that one 09:10 < couf> yeah, guides in somewhat uncertain 09:10 < stickster_work> Also, check out those statistics: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics 09:10 < couf> s/in/is 09:11 < quaid> wow, are those, like, complete? 09:11 * quaid works on his, you know, King of the Comma thing 09:12 < stickster_work> Yeah, and ignore the funkiness in the homepage-ja -- there's a trivial error in the PO but that one is done too. 09:12 < couf> nice stats, thanks for keeping this up2date 09:12 * quaid was just going to ask about that one 09:12 < stickster_work> Unfortunately, Emacs is terminally busted in Rawhide right now so I can't open it to fix it! :-) 09:12 < quaid> I bet Vim isn't busted! :) 09:13 < stickster_work> Oh, AS IF I'd use that... ;-) 09:13 < EvilBob> lol 09:13 < jsmith> stickster_work: You *will* and you'll like it :-) 09:13 < stickster_work> I like eating chinese food with one chopstick too 09:13 * quaid side notes that he is happy that jsmith is a DocBook and Vim user, might help us to improve our story in that area 09:13 < stickster_work> No kidding 09:13 < jsmith> That's right! 09:13 < stickster_work> By the way, everyone, welcome jsmith, a great guy who lives about 20 min. from my house, believe it or not 09:14 * quaid *boggles* 09:14 < quaid> a real-life person :) 09:14 < stickster_work> OK, maybe 30 09:14 < stickster_work> Published author extraordinaire 09:14 < jsmith> So, I signed up for an account... still need to introduce myself on the list 09:14 < couf> sweetness 09:14 < jsmith> Make my new gpg key, etc. this morning too 09:14 < EvilBob> legends don't need introduction? 09:14 < quaid> ok, i declare myself happy with the state of the relnotes and translations 09:14 < EvilBob> or something 09:14 < couf> quaid: ++ 09:15 < quaid> EvilBob: they do, unless they want people to make up their own story about their legend status 09:15 < EvilBob> lol 09:15 < stickster_work> We'll drop this to releng 'round about Thursday 09:15 < stickster_work> If I can interject a little status here 09:15 < quaid> aye? 09:15 < quaid> or, rather, aye! (?) 09:15 < stickster_work> I spoke with glezos at RHS about this, in particular, whether we wanted to try and sneak in any additional content the last few days 09:15 < quaid> heh heh 09:16 < stickster_work> He felt it would be a bad idea. I was hoping to get in one or two Very Important Things, but I thought better of it on the plane coming home. 09:16 < quaid> after all, if it ain't broke yet, keep on hitting it with a hammer! 09:16 < quaid> stickster_work: now you feel like all the other people who worry about our early schedule for trans 09:16 < quaid> remember our secret plan? 09:16 < stickster_work> What I think made up my mind was a bit of thread I saw on either f-devel-l or f-maintainers-l 09:16 < quaid> that we are going to put a link at the top of all pages to the Web-version? 09:17 * quaid actually never got a confirmation that this plan was a good idea 09:17 * couf likes linking 09:17 -!- jmbuser [n=chatzill at 212.70.37.3] has joined #fedora-docs 09:18 < stickster_work> What does "at the top of all pages" mean, remind me? 09:18 * jmbuser joins you late via a 26.4 kbps dial-up connection 09:18 < quaid> ok, like this ... 09:18 < couf> welcome jmbuser 09:18 < stickster_work> Hi jmbuser! 09:18 < EvilBob> Hey look jmbuser is here kinda 09:18 < jmbuser> carry on 09:18 < EvilBob> jmbuser: Don't worry we will type slow for you 09:19 < quaid> stickster_work: we copy the admonition from the OverView (in all $LANGs) and paste it at the top of each XML page 09:19 < quaid> probably the best way is to ... 09:19 < quaid> do the change in the XML in en_US, then make new POT, then copy in the msgstr to each POT file 09:20 < stickster_work> quaid: Shouldn't have to even do the copying -- the gettext utilities should be smart enough to do all this automagically 09:20 < quaid> cool 09:20 < stickster_work> I mean, the copying of other LANGs. 09:20 < stickster_work> I'll give this a whirl real quick and tell you results before we're done here 09:20 < quaid> I know it makes the pages a bit busy, but ... 09:20 < stickster_work> I was going to suggest that we put it at the top of all the "substantive" parts, i.e. not the colophon, stuff like that 09:21 < quaid> anything else on the relnotes? 09:21 < quaid> ok, sure, colophon we can skip 09:21 < stickster_work> Also, we should be dropping the PackageChanges content from the XML version 09:21 < quaid> oh, yeah, def. 09:21 < stickster_work> coolness 09:21 < couf> aye 09:21 < stickster_work> ha! 09:21 < quaid> we're going to leave that on the wiki, right? 09:21 * stickster_work keeps typing "emacs " by habit and gets ugly stack dump 09:21 < stickster_work> quaid: +1, right 09:22 < stickster_work> just eliminate from shipping version 09:22 < quaid> 'scool 09:22 * stickster_work cries over his lost Emacs 09:22 < quaid> no doubt 09:22 < stickster_work> "You never gave up on anything in your life, you bitch! Now fight! FIIIIIGHT!!!!" 09:23 < stickster_work> (Ed Harris, "The Abyss"? Anyone? *sigh) 09:23 * stickster_work simmers down 09:23 < jsmith> Yeah, I got it 09:24 < jsmith> Good movie, considering 09:24 < stickster_work> thank goodness... 09:24 < quaid> +1 to the director's cut, -1 to the theater release 09:24 < stickster_work> true dat 09:24 < jsmith> Haven't seen the director's cut 09:24 * jsmith needs to do that 09:24 < quaid> it's like "2.5 stars" becomes "3.5 stars" 09:25 < quaid> ok ... 09:25 * couf needs to see it 09:25 < quaid> on to IG talk 09:25 < quaid> (and other guides, one at a time) 09:25 < jmbuser> focus 09:25 < stickster_work> Uh-oh, IG is me too 09:25 < quaid> jmbuser: well, yeah, since you may disappear in a cloud of modem at any time 09:25 < jmbuser> ok 09:25 < stickster_work> Actually, I've made quite a bit of progress, been committing steadily 09:26 < stickster_work> Still encouraging people to check out, patch, whatever 09:27 < stickster_work> the RHS interfered somewhat, as I suspected, and when I got back I had a horrendous back spasm that put me out of commish for the last 48 hours 09:27 < stickster_work> I should be able to do quite a bit more work this week 09:27 < stickster_work> The week's slippage is a bit of a godsend if for no other reason than that 09:27 < EvilBob> +1 09:27 * quaid has been reading IG, but not for a week 09:27 < quaid> I'll def. add an edit this week 09:28 < quaid> we can talk about the schedule here, too 09:28 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#Guides 09:28 < EvilBob> For those of you who don't know the internet access in the rooms at the RHS was worse than jmbuser's connection plus it was shared 09:28 < stickster_work> That is NO lie. 09:29 < stickster_work> The only decent wifi was set up by RH, which meant a 1/4 mile walk from my tower to the convention area 09:29 < EvilBob> Several of us worked a lot in the summit spaces even after hours 09:29 < couf> ouch 09:29 < stickster_work> So, back on topic -- 09:30 < stickster_work> From my vantage point, I think a F7 GA of 5/31 is somewhat... optimistic. 09:30 < stickster_work> It could happen. 09:30 < stickster_work> But the QA efforts have been hampered by the Rawhide slump during the final parts of the merge. 09:30 < stickster_work> There are a number of regressions that the developers are trying to overcome 09:31 < EvilBob> Yeah looking like early June from the voices I have been hearing 09:31 < stickster_work> So we may be in good shape by setting a CVS freeze up for, say, 22 May 09:31 < stickster_work> Maybe even 27 May 09:31 < quaid> let's presume a later release for all guides, except ... 09:31 < quaid> maybe we can be prepared with just the IG in case they finish "on time" 09:31 < stickster_work> I think 22 May gives the translators more time for these guides, but we should keep in mind that translations may not come out until significantly after GA 09:31 < stickster_work> quaid: Roger that 09:32 < jmbuser> BTW, has anyone else had some hiccups in F7T4 after updating? 09:32 < EvilBob> quaid: +1 09:32 < quaid> yes, that's OK, as long as the English is out on time and we are updating with l10n rapidly 09:32 < stickster_work> jmbuser: Yes, let's save that discussion for after meeting tho' 09:32 < couf> quaid: +1 09:32 < jmbuser> ok 09:32 < couf> May 27 seems like a reasonable freeze-date 09:33 < EvilBob> I think if we can team up with Paul on the IG and get it done then start looking at other targets it would be a good idea 09:34 < quaid> sure, just not all of us :) because we have other stuff to get done, too 09:35 < stickster_work> +1 09:36 < jsmith> So, assuming I find some time this week to help out, what should I begin with? 09:36 < stickster_work> I'd appreciate if someone files a bug saying, "You forgot " 09:37 * EvilBob goes to file that bug 09:37 < quaid> I think jsmith is probably needed on either the user guide or the admin guide 09:37 < jsmith> OK... I'll look for those modules in CVS 09:37 < stickster_work> yeah, I think a large part of this is reviewing what's been written for style and audience consideration 09:37 < stickster_work> Is either of those in CVS yet? 09:38 < couf> dug version 6 yes, devel not yet 09:38 < couf> or fug or whatever 09:39 < couf> admin not afaik 09:39 < quaid> sorry, Wiki 09:39 < stickster_work> yeah, jsmith, here's where you find out how much work there really is to do :-D 09:39 < stickster_work> We've been paying a penalty on "few writers, lotsa work" 09:40 * stickster_work considers briefly analogy to budget deficit and give sup 09:40 < stickster_work> s/give sup/gives up/ 09:40 < jsmith> That's fine... I can't guarantee how much time I can devote to the project, but I'll do my best 09:41 < stickster_work> Rather than divvying up our forces too much, why not let jsmith collaborate on either the UG or the IG as he sees fit? 09:41 < stickster_work> We can set other targets after those are done, with a better chance of getting things done for F8 09:42 < jmbuser> jsmith: Are you willing and able to add some KDE love to the DUG/FUG? 09:42 * couf nots yum-guide is sorta getta some love in the wiki 09:42 < jsmith> I haven't touched KDE in ages 09:42 < couf> s/nots/notes 09:43 < jsmith> Of course, that might mean I'll see it with fresh eyes! 09:43 * couf loves our new tagline ;) 09:44 < stickster_work> Who is helping mether with the yum SMG? 09:44 < jmbuser> jsmith: I overcame my writer's block today (on the wiki) and am trying to figure out how to deal fairly with both KDE and GNOME apps 09:45 < jmbuser> jsmith: without totally confusing the reader. 09:45 < couf> stickster_work: iirc JonRob 09:46 < jmtaylor> I have some time this week to devote, if someone could point me in a direction :) 09:46 < stickster_work> jmtaylor: Do you have a Rawhide box? 09:46 < stickster_work> Or F7test4 09:46 < stickster_work> ? 09:46 < jmtaylor> I can make one yes 09:46 < stickster_work> jmtaylor: OK, you're going to need to be a little proactive here 09:47 < stickster_work> Install one, then check http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide 09:47 < stickster_work> There are some "to-do's" at the top 09:47 < stickster_work> So start checking chapters, find out what doesn't work right anymore (has become outdated), and fix it on the wiki 09:47 < stickster_work> That's an easy way to have a BIG impact right away 09:47 < jmbuser> +1 09:47 < stickster_work> Rahul, Jon and lots of the rest of us can watch your commits. 09:48 < stickster_work> jmtaylor: Do you have watch pages set in your wiki user prefs? 09:48 < stickster_work> At the very least, you should set one for Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagement* 09:48 < jmtaylor> stickster_work: yes, I do 09:48 < stickster_work> That will show you any changes that we make in response 09:48 < stickster_work> So you can pick up tips and hints on how to write more clearly (or at least more in line with our style preferences) :-) 09:49 < stickster_work> Assuming, of course, that the changes are improvements -- which is not necessarily a given! :-D 09:49 < stickster_work> We all try our best ;-) 09:49 < jmtaylor> heh, true 09:49 < stickster_work> OK, my time is running short guys, for whatever that's worth 09:50 < EvilBob> I figure about $143 per hour 09:50 < stickster_work> Is there anyone thinking "Gee, I don't have enough to do."? 09:50 < stickster_work> :-D 09:51 < jmbuser> you or me? :-) 09:51 < couf> jmbuser: okay to start converting the fug to xml so we have an xml in the back? 09:51 * stickster_work blows outta here like the wind, back to $DAYJOB 09:51 < couf> stickster_work: thanks dude 09:52 < jmbuser> couf: You may have noticed that I'm starting to edit the docs/drafts version 09:52 < jmbuser> stickster_work: thanks 09:52 < couf> yeah, that's why :-) want to be a bit proactive here aswell 09:52 < couf> some stuff won't change, give translators some chances to get it ahead of time 09:53 < stickster_work> couf: Keep in mind, once you go XML, it gets exponentially harder to bring in chnages 09:53 < stickster_work> well, exponentially is not quite right... but somewhat more difficult, to be sure 09:53 < jmbuser> couf: Unfortunately, I'm not a methodical writer - I will probably be banging on it for some time - and seeking feedback 09:53 < quaid> right, there is a gray line 09:54 < couf> stickster_work: thanks for the warning there :) 09:54 < jmbuser> couf: wiki is good for getting feedback quickly 09:54 < stickster_work> couf: np, let me know if I'm annoying you :-D 09:54 < quaid> there is a point where it is easier to re-convert than to manually port changes 09:55 < couf> jmbuser: sure go ahead, warn us in time to do the conv 09:55 < stickster_work> true 09:55 * jmbuser wants to go wild on the wiki :-) 09:56 < quaid> go baby go! 09:56 * quaid looks at the agenda again 09:56 < jmbuser> couf: give me a deadline 09:56 < quaid> I think we need to seek AG status on list 09:56 < quaid> and that ties up all the business 09:56 < couf> quaid: yeah, not sure if that's even alive 09:57 < couf> jmbuser: take your time, my friend :-) 09:59 < couf> quick question: are we still using the publish queue for putting docs online? 10:00 -!- jmtaylor [n=jason at c-68-42-82-39.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:00 < stickster_work> yes 10:00 < stickster_work> At least, I do 10:00 < stickster_work> It's an easy way to spot documents that are ready 10:01 < couf> yeah, although most translators don't even know about it 10:01 < stickster_work> yes, it probably needs to go into TQSG 10:01 < stickster_work> couf: Maybe you could file a bug on that? 10:02 < couf> sure 10:02 < stickster_work> I'll fix it as soon as I get a few min 10:02 < stickster_work> Or you could feel free to do it yourself, I'll see the commit and edit as necessary 10:02 < couf> yeah, I might do that 10:02 < couf> I'll open the bug in any case 10:03 < quaid> the pub-queue was sort of a stop-gap ... 10:03 < quaid> we can continue using it until glezos' magic system does auto-alerts :0 10:04 < couf> oooh magic :) 10:04 < stickster_work> right 10:04 < quaid> ok, that looks like the stuff 10:04 < quaid> any other business? (AOB) 10:05 < couf> heh lol, bug already exists (#198848) 10:06 < couf> quaid: nothing here 10:06 < quaid> right on from me, too 10:06 * quaid does the 10 second count down to close 10:07 < quaid> 10 10:07 < quaid> 9 10:07 < quaid> 8 10:07 < quaid> 7 10:07 < quaid> 6 10:07 < quaid> 5 10:07 < quaid> 4 10:07 < quaid> 3 10:07 < quaid> 2 10:07 < quaid> 1 10:07 < jsmith> 3.14 10:07 < quaid> curses, caught by pi! 10:07 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed May 16 09:00:28 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 10:00:28 +0100 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705160200k77324731uc68229da4e92d8fc@mail.gmail.com> > You're thinking of a local/fat application? Something that is kicked > off by the completion of firstboot? Is more or less what I had in mind. > > What about putting that into the welcome page for the browser, and > auto-starting Firefox? Whatever that page looks or acts like, it could > have a nicely visible "New Users Start Here" widget that kicks off what > you are describing. That would be a simple way to achieve the launching of it I would assume, or possibly an option at the end of the firstboot, like you said before. > > It sounds like a confluence of tool and content/media creation, so it is > like an interactive tour. I think that might be the most useful way for it to go, but it could even be made simpler and just point to the essentials that new users might miss. Jon From draciron at gmail.com Wed May 16 16:48:15 2007 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 11:48:15 -0500 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705160200k77324731uc68229da4e92d8fc@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705160200k77324731uc68229da4e92d8fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: I like Jonathan's idea. Pointing to the unofficial Fedora FAQ would be one good start. When setting up a new machine most people are going to want MP3 support, plugin support for the browser and many of the other topics covered by the unofficial FAQ. How to automount windoze shares, SMB configurations and how to mount NTFS partitions will be very important to people using mixed environments and dual boots. Even more important to windoze users first trying out LInux is going to be equivalents. Send them to VI and they'll run screaming into the night back to windoze. So Kedit/Gedit = notepad Openoffice = Word GIMP= photoshop kinds of tutorials would be a big help. So too would how file permissions and such work. How to set up cups is pretty essential. Scanners, digital cameras and such as well. Another crucial aspect is pointing folks toward K3b. It will make CD burning easy for even the most novice windoze user. Nothing comes close in the Linux world to K3b. Though this implies auto installing at least the KDE libs, technically you want to just install KDE. Folks that have space issues that would preclude KDE's installation are not going to use such a wizard anyway. That is one thing I wish Fedora would correct, the default install will put only Gnome on. That leaves half of the important apps uninstalled. A default Fedora install is not a very friendly install to a new Linux user. Vets can easily remove things they don't want, so I feel the install should default more toward the kitchen sink rather than the lean install that is currently used. The feedback I get from lots of first time Linux users is that they get lost. They have no idea what to do with their brand spanking new Linux installation. Some things like how to configure networking has to be local on the HD. Without it they cannot reach the FAQs on the net. Other things like pointers to the better Linux games while not important for business users would help generate more interest in Linux. A tutorial on window managers with snap shots of what the major ones look like, how to install them and such would also be a big help. What is especially important is how to configure repositories. They will be unable to use the Unofficial FAQ to get anything through Yum without first adding a repository. I know Redhat does not add this repository to avoid getting sued over copywrites and such but don't see where there'd be any harm in using a certain repository as an example of how to add a repository :) Going a step farther and automating that process is actually a good idea. While Redhat couldn't support it because of various potential litigation it could point users to the scripts that would auto configure the system to play DVDs, MP3s, add a repository, grab the latest Firefox browser instead of the 1.5 branch that officially comes with Fedora but is nearly obsolete now. Plugins could then be auto installed. Even for Linux vets that would be a huge time saver. Creating a functional machine takes a good hour or two of downloading and installations. I usually wind up forgetting at least a couple plugins then when I need them I wind up having to restart my browser or putting it off. Novice users often get lost in the process. Get frustrated and it gives Linux a bad name. Fedora is also falling behind some distros in facilitating multi-media which is key to many home users. There is a learning curve no matter what we do but it can be made a whole lot less steep with Jonathan's idea and the script I am proposing. On 5/16/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > > You're thinking of a local/fat application? Something that is kicked > > off by the completion of firstboot? > > Is more or less what I had in mind. > > > > What about putting that into the welcome page for the browser, and > > auto-starting Firefox? Whatever that page looks or acts like, it could > > have a nicely visible "New Users Start Here" widget that kicks off what > > you are describing. > > That would be a simple way to achieve the launching of it I would > assume, or possibly an option at the end of the firstboot, like you > said before. > > > > It sounds like a confluence of tool and content/media creation, so it is > > like an interactive tour. > > I think that might be the most useful way for it to go, but it could > even be made simpler and just point to the essentials that new users > might miss. > > Jon > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed May 16 17:30:30 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 18:30:30 +0100 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705160200k77324731uc68229da4e92d8fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705161030p13944450g5f9d8e063a0e8372@mail.gmail.com> I fear you might have taken my idea past what I was thinking of... > Even more important to windoze users first trying out LInux is going to be > equivalents. Send them to VI and they'll run screaming into the night back > to windoze. So Kedit/Gedit = notepad Openoffice = Word GIMP= photoshop > kinds of tutorials would be a big help. So too would how file permissions > and such work. How to set up cups is pretty essential. Scanners, digital > cameras and such as well. This seems a pretty comprehensive list, going beyond what i originally had in mind. These sorts of things probably belong more in a formal document (thinking the Fedora/Desktop User guide) rather than a quick wizard which orientates you. >Another crucial aspect is pointing folks toward > K3b. It will make CD burning easy for even the most novice windoze user. > Nothing comes close in the Linux world to K3b. Though this implies auto > installing at least the KDE libs, technically you want to just install KDE. > Folks that have space issues that would preclude KDE's installation are not > going to use such a wizard anyway. That is one thing I wish Fedora would > correct, the default install will put only Gnome on. That leaves half of the > important apps uninstalled. A default Fedora install is not a very friendly > install to a new Linux user. Vets can easily remove things they don't want, > so I feel the install should default more toward the kitchen sink rather > than the lean install that is currently used. I think there's good reasons why they've gone with the default package manifest. I don't know exactly what they are but I'm sure others could explain :D > > The feedback I get from lots of first time Linux users is that they get > lost. They have no idea what to do with their brand spanking new Linux > installation. Some things like how to configure networking has to be local > on the HD. Without it they cannot reach the FAQs on the net. > > Other things like pointers to the better Linux games while not important for > business users would help generate more interest in Linux. A tutorial on > window managers with snap shots of what the major ones look like, how to > install them and such would also be a big help. What is especially important > is how to configure repositories. They will be unable to use the Unofficial > FAQ to get anything through Yum without first adding a repository. I know > Redhat does not add this repository to avoid getting sued over copywrites > and such but don't see where there'd be any harm in using a certain > repository as an example of how to add a repository :) Most of these things are currently covered by the Desktop/Fedora User Guide... > > There is a learning curve no matter what we do but it can be made a whole > lot less steep with Jonathan's idea and the script I am proposing. Check out Fedora Frog? Might be what you're thinking of. This isn't really what I had in mind though. Best, Jon From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 16 18:51:53 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 11:51:53 -0700 Subject: hardware solutions and other one-off Message-ID: <1179341514.3439.222.camel@erato.phig.org> Below is an example of a request that we haven't been able to fill, to support a community-based set of content about hardware compatibility and solutions. I think a knowledgebase solution (kbase) is the best way to tackle this, and it has been discussed here before. We can get this specified, planned, and put into a queue for deployment by Fedora Infrastructure. Anyone interested in moving ahead on this? A post Fedora 7 project, to be sure. Sam Folk-Williams, iirc, was interested ... who else? Any other ideas for supporting this kind of thing in a non-crazy way? < whojarr> is there a documentation project for hardware specific setups? < whojarr> want to put my laptop specific issues and resolution somewhere. < vpv> maybe the fedoramobile site would be the right place? < jmbuser> whojarr: I get results from www.linux-on-laptops.com < jmbuser> whojarr: It points to other sites, though < jmbuser> whojarr: Assuming it's a laptop you're talking about < whojarr> yeah. cheers.. my solutions are all specific to ferdora. will see what fits best. < quaid> I think a kbase is probably the best technical and collaborative solution to "community hardware compatibility and solutions" -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed May 16 19:42:57 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 20:42:57 +0100 Subject: hardware solutions and other one-off In-Reply-To: <1179341514.3439.222.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1179341514.3439.222.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705161242n568a7749m318e28d4e4216f36@mail.gmail.com> > Anyone interested in moving ahead on this? A post Fedora 7 project, to > be sure. Sam Folk-Williams, iirc, was interested ... who else? I'd be willing to help where I can. Best, Jon From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 16 19:53:46 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:23:46 +0530 Subject: hardware solutions and other one-off In-Reply-To: <1179341514.3439.222.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1179341514.3439.222.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <464B614A.8060407@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > Below is an example of a request that we haven't been able to fill, to > support a community-based set of content about hardware compatibility > and solutions. I think a knowledgebase solution (kbase) is the best way > to tackle this, and it has been discussed here before. We can get this > specified, planned, and put into a queue for deployment by Fedora > Infrastructure. > > Anyone interested in moving ahead on this? A post Fedora 7 project, to > be sure. Sam Folk-Williams, iirc, was interested ... who else? > Any manual solution like Kbase won't scale. Look at http://wtogami.livejournal.com/16659.html for something more automated. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 16 19:56:47 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:26:47 +0530 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705160200k77324731uc68229da4e92d8fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <464B61FF.40803@fedoraproject.org> Dan Smith wrote: > Going a step farther and automating that process is actually a good > idea. While Redhat couldn't support it because of various potential > litigation it could point users to the scripts that would auto configure > the system No. It can't. This would lead to potential contributory infringement issues. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 16 19:59:04 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 01:29:04 +0530 Subject: Making beagle optional In-Reply-To: <200705141632.18242.jkeating@redhat.com> References: <1179154692.3560.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200705141614.51678.jkeating@redhat.com> <200705141632.18242.jkeating@redhat.com> Message-ID: <464B6288.2050706@fedoraproject.org> Jesse Keating wrote: > On Monday 14 May 2007 16:14:48 Jesse Keating wrote: >> The beagle package set will be added to the manifest for the 'Fedora' spin >> of Fedora 7. This will help folks upgrading from Fedora Core 6 that may >> have beagle installed. > > To clarify, this will make the beagle packages available on the Fedora spin > isos, but still only optional packages. They will be available for the > upgrade case, and users would have to click on them specifically in the > package selection screen to get them on the install case. It won't be available within the live images. Right? Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 16 21:36:00 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:36:00 -0400 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1179351360.15623.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 17:18 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 21:17 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Hi all, > > > > I don't know if this is off topic, or even just wishful thinking, but > > has any sort of a welcome wizard been considered? > > > > GNU/Linux (and Fedora) is different to what a lot of new users will > > have been used to, and some sort of a welcome wizard which just points > > them in the right direction for common items, i.e. software installer > > etc might be useful. > > > > I have no idea if other people think this would be worthwhile, or how > > you might go about creating it! Thoughts? > > You're thinking of a local/fat application? Something that is kicked > off by the completion of firstboot? In other words, a firstboot module. These can be fairly rich in content. > What about putting that into the welcome page for the browser, and > auto-starting Firefox? Whatever that page looks or acts like, it could > have a nicely visible "New Users Start Here" widget that kicks off what > you are describing. I think firstboot is a better place for this. > It sounds like a confluence of tool and content/media creation, so it is > like an interactive tour. It is likely someone else will gleefully advocate pointing to non-free solutions, so I'll just put in my zwei Pfennig (in an equally gleeful way) to say, "not in FDP space." :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 16 21:52:28 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 17:52:28 -0400 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705160200k77324731uc68229da4e92d8fc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1179352348.15623.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-05-16 at 11:48 -0500, Dan Smith wrote: > I like Jonathan's idea. Pointing to the unofficial Fedora FAQ would > be one good start. When setting up a new machine most people are going > to want MP3 support, plugin support for the browser and many of the > other topics covered by the unofficial FAQ. How to automount windoze > shares, SMB configurations and how to mount NTFS partitions will be > very important to people using mixed environments and dual boots. Ha! Guess I wrote my earlier thread reply too soon. Cf. "contributory infringement." We point to FedoraForum.org already, and I'm sure plenty of people there are willing to help corrupt systems with non-FOSS wherever needed. > Even more important to windoze users first trying out LInux is going > to be equivalents. Send them to VI and they'll run screaming into the > night back to windoze. So Kedit/Gedit = notepad Openoffice = Word > GIMP= photoshop kinds of tutorials would be a big help. So too would > how file permissions and such work. How to set up cups is pretty > essential. Scanners, digital cameras and such as well. Another > crucial aspect is pointing folks toward K3b. It will make CD burning > easy for even the most novice windoze user. Nothing comes close in the > Linux world to K3b. Though this implies auto installing at least the > KDE libs, technically you want to just install KDE. Folks that have > space issues that would preclude KDE's installation are not going to > use such a wizard anyway. That is one thing I wish Fedora would > correct, the default install will put only Gnome on. That leaves half > of the important apps uninstalled. A default Fedora install is not a > very friendly install to a new Linux user. Vets can easily remove > things they don't want, so I feel the install should default more > toward the kitchen sink rather than the lean install that is currently > used. This is a huge scattershot of topics, but I think most of these are covered in the sketchpad/checklists of topics for our guides. Perhaps you would like to actually contribute some content for these guides on the wiki? It is open for community contribution; please refer to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join for information. If wishes were horses... :-) > The feedback I get from lots of first time Linux users is that they > get lost. They have no idea what to do with their brand spanking new > Linux installation. Some things like how to configure networking has > to be local on the HD. Without it they cannot reach the FAQs on the > net. Again, we are open to contributions in the docs. I would consider this a possibility for including in the on-DVD "README" file, if nothing else than telling people where to find the easy network configuration tool already present in the default installation. > Other things like pointers to the better Linux games while not > important for business users would help generate more interest in > Linux. A tutorial on window managers with snap shots of what the major > ones look like, how to install them and such would also be a big help. > What is especially important is how to configure repositories. They > will be unable to use the Unofficial FAQ to get anything through Yum > without first adding a repository. I know Redhat does not add this > repository to avoid getting sued over copywrites and such but don't > see where there'd be any harm in using a certain repository as an > example of how to add a repository :) See above. Plus the software management guide, which could also use your help. Please feel free to contribute elbow grease as desired. > Going a step farther and automating that process is actually a good > idea. While Redhat couldn't support it because of various potential > litigation it could point users to the scripts that would auto > configure the system to play DVDs, MP3s, add a repository, grab the > latest Firefox browser instead of the 1.5 branch that officially comes > with Fedora but is nearly obsolete now. Plugins could then be auto > installed. Even for Linux vets that would be a huge time saver. > Creating a functional machine takes a good hour or two of downloading > and installations. I usually wind up forgetting at least a couple > plugins then when I need them I wind up having to restart my browser > or putting it off. Novice users often get lost in the process. Get > frustrated and it gives Linux a bad name. Fedora is also falling > behind some distros in facilitating multi-media which is key to many > home users. Feel free to write that script, publish it, and support it on your own website. The Fedora Project and its contributors (including me, a non-Red Hat person) are passionately devoted to free and open source software, and we want our solutions to be supportable in the sense that the community has the power to take them apart and build on them at will without legal repercussions. > There is a learning curve no matter what we do but it can be made a > whole lot less steep with Jonathan's idea and the script I am > proposing. Again, I would urge you to step up and get involved beyond simply listing areas where you feel there are weaknesses. If you have time, we have a number of documents in draft form that are waiting for energetic folks to improve. Thanks for your time and consideration, and we look forward to hearing back from you. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mclasen at redhat.com Wed May 16 22:25:48 2007 From: mclasen at redhat.com (Matthias Clasen) Date: Wed, 16 May 2007 18:25:48 -0400 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <1179351360.15623.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <1179351360.15623.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1179354348.3068.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-05-16 at 17:36 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 17:18 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 21:17 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > > Hi all, > > > > > > I don't know if this is off topic, or even just wishful thinking, but > > > has any sort of a welcome wizard been considered? > > > > > > GNU/Linux (and Fedora) is different to what a lot of new users will > > > have been used to, and some sort of a welcome wizard which just points > > > them in the right direction for common items, i.e. software installer > > > etc might be useful. > > > > > > I have no idea if other people think this would be worthwhile, or how > > > you might go about creating it! Thoughts? > > > > You're thinking of a local/fat application? Something that is kicked > > off by the completion of firstboot? > > In other words, a firstboot module. These can be fairly rich in > content. > Firstboot is NOT a good solution for this. 1) it runs outside a regular session, so the user cannot actually see what you explain to him 2) only the first user to start the machine after installation gets to see it 3) you cannot easily revisit it at a later time What you want is a firstlogin that runs after the first login of every new user. From romal at gmx.de Thu May 17 07:51:07 2007 From: romal at gmx.de (Robert M. Albrecht) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:51:07 +0200 Subject: hardware solutions and other one-off In-Reply-To: <464B614A.8060407@fedoraproject.org> References: <1179341514.3439.222.camel@erato.phig.org> <464B614A.8060407@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <464C096B.8070708@gmx.de> Hi, I am interessted. It should be both: - manual - automatic I don`t think smolt is enough. There are several other places: gutenprints test page, sound-card-detection, xsane, ... Has smolt an API, so other apps like digikam, sane, ... could send information about non-working scanner, digital-cameras, 1394 camcorders ? I have a tft-display that does screw up x.orgs autodetection because of faulty ddc-readouts. Such devices should be possible to add manually. And we could add the inform-vendor-button for non-supported devices we talked about: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2007-April/msg00087.html https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2007-March/msg00139.html cu romal Rahul Sundaram schrieb: > Karsten Wade wrote: >> Below is an example of a request that we haven't been able to fill, to >> support a community-based set of content about hardware compatibility >> and solutions. I think a knowledgebase solution (kbase) is the best way >> to tackle this, and it has been discussed here before. We can get this >> specified, planned, and put into a queue for deployment by Fedora >> Infrastructure. >> >> Anyone interested in moving ahead on this? A post Fedora 7 project, to >> be sure. Sam Folk-Williams, iirc, was interested ... who else? >> > > Any manual solution like Kbase won't scale. Look at > > http://wtogami.livejournal.com/16659.html for something more automated. > > Rahul > From couf at skynet.be Thu May 17 08:26:59 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 10:26:59 +0200 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <1179354348.3068.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <1179351360.15623.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1179354348.3068.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <464C11D3.5040005@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Matthias Clasen schreef: > On Wed, 2007-05-16 at 17:36 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 17:18 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: >>> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 21:17 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> I don't know if this is off topic, or even just wishful thinking, but >>>> has any sort of a welcome wizard been considered? >>>> >>>> GNU/Linux (and Fedora) is different to what a lot of new users will >>>> have been used to, and some sort of a welcome wizard which just points >>>> them in the right direction for common items, i.e. software installer >>>> etc might be useful. >>>> >>>> I have no idea if other people think this would be worthwhile, or how >>>> you might go about creating it! Thoughts? >>> You're thinking of a local/fat application? Something that is kicked >>> off by the completion of firstboot? >> In other words, a firstboot module. These can be fairly rich in >> content. >> > > Firstboot is NOT a good solution for this. > > 1) it runs outside a regular session, so the user cannot actually see > what you explain to him > > 2) only the first user to start the machine after installation gets to > see it > > 3) you cannot easily revisit it at a later time > > > What you want is a firstlogin that runs after the first login of every > new user. > Yeah, firstboot wouldn't scale enough, to let new users come to an existing system and learn about it. So something like "About Fedora" turned into an interactive, "this is how you do foo, bar"-type of program? More like a small tour of the system, which ends with a list of links to the other guides we've got lying around here. Could be doable with firefox as Karsten mentioned earlier. Bart - -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGTBHTrbZrKtk/D5MRAi21AJ9N4nHjTl6gRT9tZjqnonX0hSHPOgCfSpYp FWHYXoGg3v3Fe6mGIlI4w18= =jNEA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu May 17 08:31:16 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 09:31:16 +0100 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <464C11D3.5040005@skynet.be> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <1179351360.15623.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1179354348.3068.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <464C11D3.5040005@skynet.be> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705170131h40f3fbc3r4afd2238fa34d4f5@mail.gmail.com> > Could be doable with firefox as Karsten mentioned earlier. Do people think it's worthwhile though!? If so perhaps it could be something aimed for F8? Best, Jon > > Bart > > - -- > Bart > key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFGTBHTrbZrKtk/D5MRAi21AJ9N4nHjTl6gRT9tZjqnonX0hSHPOgCfSpYp > FWHYXoGg3v3Fe6mGIlI4w18= > =jNEA > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 17 11:44:40 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 07:44:40 -0400 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <464C11D3.5040005@skynet.be> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <1179351360.15623.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1179354348.3068.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <464C11D3.5040005@skynet.be> Message-ID: <1179402280.4900.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 10:26 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Matthias Clasen schreef: > > On Wed, 2007-05-16 at 17:36 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 17:18 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > >>> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 21:17 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> I don't know if this is off topic, or even just wishful thinking, but > >>>> has any sort of a welcome wizard been considered? > >>>> > >>>> GNU/Linux (and Fedora) is different to what a lot of new users will > >>>> have been used to, and some sort of a welcome wizard which just points > >>>> them in the right direction for common items, i.e. software installer > >>>> etc might be useful. > >>>> > >>>> I have no idea if other people think this would be worthwhile, or how > >>>> you might go about creating it! Thoughts? > >>> You're thinking of a local/fat application? Something that is kicked > >>> off by the completion of firstboot? > >> In other words, a firstboot module. These can be fairly rich in > >> content. > >> > > > > Firstboot is NOT a good solution for this. > > > > 1) it runs outside a regular session, so the user cannot actually see > > what you explain to him > > > > 2) only the first user to start the machine after installation gets to > > see it > > > > 3) you cannot easily revisit it at a later time > > > > > > What you want is a firstlogin that runs after the first login of every > > new user. > > > > Yeah, firstboot wouldn't scale enough, to let new users come to an > existing system and learn about it. > > So something like "About Fedora" turned into an interactive, "this is > how you do foo, bar"-type of program? More like a small tour of the > system, which ends with a list of links to the other guides we've got > lying around here. > > Could be doable with firefox as Karsten mentioned earlier. Again, firefox is not a good place for this. Some users will never see it if they install epiphany or konqueror instead. I understand the problems with firstboot now, but this kind of function should be an independent program of some sort. Which means if anyone wants it, they will have to code it. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From webmaster at imathematica.com Thu May 17 13:32:16 2007 From: webmaster at imathematica.com (Gregory Umukoro) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 06:32:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <1179402280.4900.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <131743.83853.qm@web810.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Take me off your mailing lists --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Paul W. Frields" wrote: On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 10:26 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Matthias Clasen schreef: > > On Wed, 2007-05-16 at 17:36 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 17:18 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > >>> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 21:17 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > >>>> Hi all, > >>>> > >>>> I don't know if this is off topic, or even just wishful thinking, but > >>>> has any sort of a welcome wizard been considered? > >>>> > >>>> GNU/Linux (and Fedora) is different to what a lot of new users will > >>>> have been used to, and some sort of a welcome wizard which just points > >>>> them in the right direction for common items, i.e. software installer > >>>> etc might be useful. > >>>> > >>>> I have no idea if other people think this would be worthwhile, or how > >>>> you might go about creating it! Thoughts? > >>> You're thinking of a local/fat application? Something that is kicked > >>> off by the completion of firstboot? > >> In other words, a firstboot module. These can be fairly rich in > >> content. > >> > > > > Firstboot is NOT a good solution for this. > > > > 1) it runs outside a regular session, so the user cannot actually see > > what you explain to him > > > > 2) only the first user to start the machine after installation gets to > > see it > > > > 3) you cannot easily revisit it at a later time > > > > > > What you want is a firstlogin that runs after the first login of every > > new user. > > > > Yeah, firstboot wouldn't scale enough, to let new users come to an > existing system and learn about it. > > So something like "About Fedora" turned into an interactive, "this is > how you do foo, bar"-type of program? More like a small tour of the > system, which ends with a list of links to the other guides we've got > lying around here. > > Could be doable with firefox as Karsten mentioned earlier. Again, firefox is not a good place for this. Some users will never see it if they install epiphany or konqueror instead. I understand the problems with firstboot now, but this kind of function should be an independent program of some sort. Which means if anyone wants it, they will have to code it. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From samfw at redhat.com Thu May 17 19:33:01 2007 From: samfw at redhat.com (Sam Folk-Williams) Date: Thu, 17 May 2007 15:33:01 -0400 Subject: hardware solutions and other one-off In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705161242n568a7749m318e28d4e4216f36@mail.gmail.com> References: <1179341514.3439.222.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705161242n568a7749m318e28d4e4216f36@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <464CADED.3070601@redhat.com> Jonathan Roberts wrote: >> Anyone interested in moving ahead on this? A post Fedora 7 project, to >> be sure. Sam Folk-Williams, iirc, was interested ... who else? > > I'd be willing to help where I can. > Yup I'm still down with this idea. We've been held up before trying to choose the right software. Last I heard we were thinking maybe plone already has a module? It's always nice to have some bit of automation, but there's no way it can be totally automated. We could hopefully get a system that makes it really easy to add entries though. Sam > Best, > > Jon > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu May 17 20:49:30 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 02:19:30 +0530 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <131743.83853.qm@web810.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <131743.83853.qm@web810.biz.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <464CBFDA.1060601@fedoraproject.org> Gregory Umukoro wrote: > Take me off your mailing lists You subscribed on your own. You should be able to unsubscribe. http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list The instructions to do this are on the footer of every mail send to the lists. Rahul From romal at gmx.de Fri May 18 09:20:33 2007 From: romal at gmx.de (Robert M. Albrecht) Date: Fri, 18 May 2007 11:20:33 +0200 Subject: hardware solutions and other one-off In-Reply-To: <464CADED.3070601@redhat.com> References: <1179341514.3439.222.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705161242n568a7749m318e28d4e4216f36@mail.gmail.com> <464CADED.3070601@redhat.com> Message-ID: <464D6FE1.4020109@gmx.de> Hi, > It's always nice to have some bit of automation, but there's no way it > can be totally automated. We could hopefully get a system that makes it > really easy to add entries though. If we use a wiki smolt could create pages like /bus/pci/$vendorsid/$deviceid and deposit the information about successfull installation or failures. This pages could be manually edited as it is a wiki. cu romal From hyu_gabaru at yahoo.co.jp Sat May 19 09:15:20 2007 From: hyu_gabaru at yahoo.co.jp (Hyuugabaru) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 18:15:20 +0900 Subject: Q: Docs Translation statictics Message-ID: <20070519181520k?viY?@yahoo.co.jp> Hi, all: I'm translating messages and docs into Japanese these three weeks or so. I've translated "about-fedora", "homepage", "readme", and "readme-burning-isos". (At the starting, the scores were 1/8/31, 11/2/24, 1/9/54, and 54/34/10) Now, I'm suffering to translate "release-notes". There are so many fuzzies and untranslateds. I've been checking from the web page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics but currently, it does not show translation statistics of Japanese release-notes. So, I copied and modified the shell script on the web page and executed, but it shows: ja: /396/ /396/34/ /397/ /3/ just like at 09:10 in "FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-12 IRC log" saying the statistics of homepage-ja. The first scores I logged were 112/195/233/ and, the last scores showed on the web page were 146/170/224. I'm not so familiar with cvs command. How do I get the correct statistics? Thanks in advance. p.s. I'm new to translate on Fedora Project, and made some handing errors. --> Thanks Paul W. Frields for correctings. Hyu_gabaru Ryu_ichi hyu_gabaru at yahoo.co.jp Shizuoka, Japan -------------------------------------- Easy + Joy + Powerful = Yahoo! Bookmarks x Toolbar http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/toolbar/ From stickster at gmail.com Sat May 19 14:16:42 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 14:16:42 +0000 Subject: Q: Docs Translation statictics In-Reply-To: <20070519181520k?viY?@yahoo.co.jp> References: <20070519181520k?viY?@yahoo.co.jp> Message-ID: <1179584202.5613.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-05-19 at 18:15 +0900, Hyuugabaru wrote: > I'm translating messages and docs into Japanese these three weeks or so. Hi Hyu (and I apologize if I am getting your name wrong, please correct me if so). I've seen all the work you've done, so thank you! > I've translated "about-fedora", "homepage", "readme", and "readme-burning-isos". > (At the starting, the scores were 1/8/31, 11/2/24, 1/9/54, and 54/34/10) > > Now, I'm suffering to translate "release-notes". There are so many fuzzies and > untranslateds. Yes, these are a big job, which is why they're usually done by small teams. I seem to remember we had a young lady doing some translation for the ja locale, but haven't heard from her in some time. You may find her name in the PO file, and get in touch with her for additional help. > I've been checking from the web page: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics > > but currently, it does not show translation statistics of Japanese release-notes. Yes, because the "ja" locale is not part of the OTHERS variable in the Makefile yet, due its incomplete state. > So, I copied and modified the shell script on the web page and executed, but it > shows: > ja: /396/ /396/34/ /397/ /3/ > just like at 09:10 in "FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-12 IRC log" saying > the statistics of homepage-ja. > The first scores I logged were 112/195/233/ and, the last scores showed on the > web page were 146/170/224. > > I'm not so familiar with cvs command. How do I get the correct statistics? You can override the Makefile definition like this: make OTHERS="ja" postat-ja You can also simply run the manual command "msgfmt --stat ja.po" at any time. However, this won't fix the problem you're seeing, which is due to the errors in your PO file. I think I've fixed those, so make sure you PO is up to date ("cvs up"). Another helpful command: make OTHERS="ja" validate-xml-ja If you have errors in your PO file, this will certainly expose them as well. Feel free to post errors and ask for help here or on IRC in #fedora-docs at any time! > p.s. > I'm new to translate on Fedora Project, and made some handing errors. > --> Thanks Paul W. Frields for correctings. No problem, that's the essence of teamwork! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat May 19 17:00:29 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 13:00:29 -0400 Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Desktops" by JohnBabich In-Reply-To: <20070519142157.17451.97568@app1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> References: <20070519142157.17451.97568@app1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1179594029.4125.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm using this wiki commit message as an opportunity to talk about some problems I'm seeing in composition and style that writers should keep in mind. This hopefully will benefit a bunch of folks... On Sat, 2007-05-19 at 14:21 +0000, fedorawiki-noreply at fedoraproject.org wrote: > The three major desktop managers included with Fedora 7 are: > > - * GNOME - previously the desktop manager installed by default > + * GNOME - previously the default desktop manager, still an > excellent choice > - * KDE - a desktop manager known for its large collection of > applications and great customization > + * KDE - a desktop manager known for its large collection of > applications and great customization features > - * Xfce - an excellent desktop manager for legacy PCs and laptops, > due to its low-memory requirements > + * Xfce - an excellent desktop manager for legacy PCs and laptops, > due to its low-memory requirements, with great add-on features PROBLEM: Making judgment calls in writing. Do not classify things as "good," "bad," "ugly," or anything else subjective. Do not show bias or qualitative comparison. > Many others are also available, some of which can be installed from > Fedora's extensive library of applications, or ''repositories''. > > Before describing the desktop managers in greater detail, it's good > to know that applications written for one desktop manager work with > other managers with very few exceptions. > > - For instance, '''konqueror''' is a combination web browser/file > manager which is part of the KDE suite of applications. Although a KDE > application, Konqueror also runs seamlessly with the GNOME and Xfce > desktop managers available with Fedora. > + For instance, '''Konqueror''' is a combination web browser/file > manager which is part of the KDE suite of applications. Although a KDE > application, Konqueror also runs seamlessly with the GNOME and Xfce > desktop managers available with Fedora. PROBLEM #1: Do not use "/" in writing, such as "he/she," "and/or", or any other construct. Some languages do not allow this construct -- therefore avoid it. Use "and" or "or," or simply restructure the sentence to avoid this issue. PROBLEM #2: The word "combination" is unnecessary here. By using the word "and" the implication is that the application is indeed a combination, so fixing Problem #1 will take care of this issue. PROBLEM #3: Avoid adverbs where possible, since they often indicate qualitative judgments (see above). PROBLEM #4: Avoid misleading technical cues. "[A]vailable with Fedora" seems to imply that the user's Fedora system comes with these desktop managers installed, which often may not be the case. SOLUTION: "Konqueror is a web browser and file manager included in the KDE suite of applications. Konqueror can also be used with the GNOME and Xfce desktop managers." > Another example is the '''Open``Office.org''' office suite. > Open``Office.org applications run on the three major desktops shipped > with Fedora. In fact, once an application is in use, it's sometimes > difficult to tell which desktop manager is active. PROBLEM #1: Avoid contractions such as "it's." PROBLEM #2: The use of "In fact" here is unnecessary and implies that we're not being factual in other parts of the document, which I would assume is not the case. :-) > Remember, Fedora Linux is all about choice. There are many > applications from which to choose in order for Fedora users to browse > the World Wide Web, write and edit documents, and display and edit > photos. PROBLEM #1: Telling the user "Remember" is an unnecessary instruction. Furthermore, there is a qualitative judgment that "Fedora Linux [sic] is all about choice." Rephrase this to remove these issues. PROBLEM #2: The phrase "in order" (such as "in order to" or "in order for") is usually redundant. Avoid it whenever possible. PROBLEM #3: Avoid passive voice to make sentences stronger. SOLUTION: "Fedora offers an array of choices for performing many common tasks. Users may choose from many applications to browse the World Wide Web, write and edit documents, and display and edit photos." > - This guide describes the most common applications which are > installed. Other applications are also described as equally good > alternatives to the "default" applications. In fact, the idea of a > "default application" is becoming rather meaningless, as the ease of > installing Fedora applications increases. > + This guide describes the most common applications which are > installed. Other applications are also described that are equally good > alternatives to the "default" applications. In fact, the idea of a > "default application" is becoming rather meaningless, as the ease of > installing Fedora applications increases. PROBLEM #1: Qualitative judgments ("equally good alternatives," "rather meaningless.") PROBLEM #2: The FDUG's objective is to describe the default installation of Fedora. Avoid mission drift. SOLUTION: "This guide describes the most commonly installed desktop applications." (And then ensure the FDUG actually *DOES* this.) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat May 19 17:12:55 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 20:12:55 +0300 Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Desktops" by JohnBabich In-Reply-To: <1179594029.4125.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070519142157.17451.97568@app1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <1179594029.4125.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705191012t6c92e1edxae7f5dfcfde97834@mail.gmail.com> I guess I'll have to do my very rough drafts offline from now on :-) John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From hyu_gabaru at yahoo.co.jp Sat May 19 23:53:39 2007 From: hyu_gabaru at yahoo.co.jp (Hyuugabaru) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 08:53:39 +0900 Subject: Q: Docs Translation statictics In-Reply-To: <1179584202.5613.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070519181520k?viY?@yahoo.co.jp> <1179584202.5613.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070520085339uzY%lF@yahoo.co.jp> "Paul W. Frields" wrote: <> > > So, I copied and modified the shell script on the web page and executed, but it > > shows: > > ja: /396/ /396/34/ /397/ /3/ > > just like at 09:10 in "FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-12 IRC log" saying > > the statistics of homepage-ja. > > > The first scores I logged were 112/195/233/ and, the last scores showed on the > > web page were 146/170/224. > > > > I'm not so familiar with cvs command. How do I get the correct statistics? > > You can override the Makefile definition like this: > > make OTHERS="ja" postat-ja > > You can also simply run the manual command "msgfmt --stat ja.po" at any > time. However, this won't fix the problem you're seeing, which is due > to the errors in your PO file. I think I've fixed those, so make sure > you PO is up to date ("cvs up"). Another helpful command: > > make OTHERS="ja" validate-xml-ja > > If you have errors in your PO file, this will certainly expose them as > well. Feel free to post errors and ask for help here or on IRC in > #fedora-docs at any time! > <> Thanks, I found the error and corrected, and got the status of 193/162/185. Hyu_gabaru Ryu_ichi hyu_gabaru at yahoo.co.jp Shizuoka, Japan -------------------------------------- Easy + Joy + Powerful = Yahoo! Bookmarks x Toolbar http://pr.mail.yahoo.co.jp/toolbar/ From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 20 00:03:32 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 19 May 2007 17:03:32 -0700 Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Desktops" by JohnBabich In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0705191012t6c92e1edxae7f5dfcfde97834@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070519142157.17451.97568@app1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <1179594029.4125.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0705191012t6c92e1edxae7f5dfcfde97834@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1179619412.3439.423.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-05-19 at 20:12 +0300, John Babich wrote: > I guess I'll have to do my very rough drafts offline from now on :-) While I'm sure you have your tongue in your cheek with this comment (hence, the smiley), I want to take the chance to point out why community documentation *can* be better than solo-doc writing. It is because of open collaborative teamwork. The open collaborative process gives us a chance to fix problems early and often. If writers keep their prose secretive until they feel it is perfect, several things may happen: * If it is not perfect, there is less time and inclination to fix it * The longer you hold in to a piece of writing, the harder it is to let go of it when changes must be made * Others are given less of a chance to learn from common mistakes and guidelines. * Ongoing editing (a strength of a content control such as Wiki or CVS) is harder to do when content arrives in huge blobs. (Note that all this can be said about code.) The last one is where I often fall short. I follow the traditional route of saving my edit for the end, and then I have a HUGE amount of work ahead of me -- all of the work needs to be done in one pass, and any lessons I want to pass (similar to Paul's) are less visible when passed during a massive edit campaign. For example, a few weeks ago I actually did some editing of FWN before the writer's deadline. The tips I passed along in that edit were then followed for newly written content, which reduced my final edit workload. - Karsten, hoping he can do the same again tonight -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun May 20 04:20:03 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 07:20:03 +0300 Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Desktops" by JohnBabich In-Reply-To: <1179619412.3439.423.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20070519142157.17451.97568@app1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <1179594029.4125.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0705191012t6c92e1edxae7f5dfcfde97834@mail.gmail.com> <1179619412.3439.423.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705192120u5d95f26aj33b2b969cc86322b@mail.gmail.com> On 5/20/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2007-05-19 at 20:12 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > I guess I'll have to do my very rough drafts offline from now on :-) > > While I'm sure you have your tongue in your cheek with this comment > (hence, the smiley), I want to take the chance to point out why > community documentation *can* be better than solo-doc writing. It is > because of open collaborative teamwork. > The above remark was definitely made tongue-in-cheek with a hint of frustration. The frustrating part is trying to figure out the best way to change the format to fit the greatly expanded scope of coverage. Also note the emphasis on the "very" in the "rough draft". > The open collaborative process gives us a chance to fix problems early > and often. If writers keep their prose secretive until they feel it is > perfect, several things may happen: > > * If it is not perfect, there is less time and inclination to fix it > * The longer you hold in to a piece of writing, the harder it is to let > go of it when changes must be made > * Others are given less of a chance to learn from common mistakes and > guidelines. > * Ongoing editing (a strength of a content control such as Wiki or CVS) > is harder to do when content arrives in huge blobs. > > (Note that all this can be said about code.) > This is the strength of open source - release early and often. I agree with you that it also applies to writing documentation. > The last one is where I often fall short. I follow the traditional > route of saving my edit for the end, and then I have a HUGE amount of > work ahead of me -- all of the work needs to be done in one pass, and > any lessons I want to pass (similar to Paul's) are less visible when > passed during a massive edit campaign. > > For example, a few weeks ago I actually did some editing of FWN before > the writer's deadline. The tips I passed along in that edit were then > followed for newly written content, which reduced my final edit > workload. > I have been suffering from "analysis paralysis", also known as "writer's block". That's why I decided to go with a "brain dump" to get the creative juices flowing. At the same time, it was a bit upsetting to have this doc critiqued rather heavily while clearly in the early stages (at least in my mind). It's like trying to write a song and somebody comes along and says, "Hey, dude, your instrument's out of tune". Keeping On Keeping On, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun May 20 11:00:42 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 14:00:42 +0300 Subject: FDSCo Meeting Today? Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705200400k6fb90fd2oc15e03bbe62279da@mail.gmail.com> Are we having the regularly scheduled meeting today (Sunday) at 1400 hrs UTC? John Babich Fedora Docs Project From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun May 20 11:19:27 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 14:19:27 +0300 Subject: FDSCo Meeting Today? In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0705200400k6fb90fd2oc15e03bbe62279da@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0705200400k6fb90fd2oc15e03bbe62279da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705200419v5881e02coca0d1ff95efa8f9e@mail.gmail.com> On 5/20/07, John Babich wrote: > Are we having the regularly scheduled meeting today (Sunday) at 1400 hrs UTC? > Sorry, I meant to write 1600 hrs UTC. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From couf at skynet.be Sun May 20 11:22:32 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 13:22:32 +0200 Subject: FDSCo Meeting Today? In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0705200419v5881e02coca0d1ff95efa8f9e@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0705200400k6fb90fd2oc15e03bbe62279da@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0705200419v5881e02coca0d1ff95efa8f9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <46502F78.5070102@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 John Babich schreef: > On 5/20/07, John Babich wrote: >> Are we having the regularly scheduled meeting today (Sunday) at 1400 >> hrs UTC? >> > Sorry, I meant to write 1600 hrs UTC. > Yeah, I would assume that it's back to regular schedule. Haven't heard any reason why not. Bart - -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGUC94rbZrKtk/D5MRAhvMAKCA6x/R6cw7QeR0wjrXyPIRH0VNjwCeIYoO erOXg9pUyvCrbfaNqh+2JzA= =fO85 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mcgiwer at fedoraproject.org Sun May 20 11:37:31 2007 From: mcgiwer at fedoraproject.org (Pawel Sadowski) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 13:37:31 +0200 Subject: I'm back! Message-ID: <1179661051.5742.3.camel@redhat> Hi guys! I'm writing to inform you that I'm already back after my exams. I have 5170 mails to read, so I can find out what's going on :) Ok, I think that's all for now. It's wonderful to be here again :) Cheers, Pawel From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun May 20 11:59:50 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 14:59:50 +0300 Subject: I'm back! In-Reply-To: <1179661051.5742.3.camel@redhat> References: <1179661051.5742.3.camel@redhat> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705200459i16a1ee1auc3edbfad39752f09@mail.gmail.com> Welcome back, Pawel! Be sure to join the FDSCo meeting today at 1600 hrs UTC on #fedora-docs. As usual, you can add any topics for the meeting agenda at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings. Hope to see you there, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From stickster at gmail.com Sun May 20 14:11:59 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 10:11:59 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting Today? In-Reply-To: <46502F78.5070102@skynet.be> References: <9d2c731f0705200400k6fb90fd2oc15e03bbe62279da@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0705200419v5881e02coca0d1ff95efa8f9e@mail.gmail.com> <46502F78.5070102@skynet.be> Message-ID: <1179670319.6987.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 13:22 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > John Babich schreef: > > On 5/20/07, John Babich wrote: > >> Are we having the regularly scheduled meeting today (Sunday) at 1400 > >> hrs UTC? > >> > > Sorry, I meant to write 1600 hrs UTC. > > > Yeah, I would assume that it's back to regular schedule. Haven't heard > any reason why not. I may not be able to make today's meeting; it will depend on connectivity at my destination since I'll be on the road. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun May 20 14:36:36 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 10:36:36 -0400 Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Desktops" by JohnBabich In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0705192120u5d95f26aj33b2b969cc86322b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20070519142157.17451.97568@app1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <1179594029.4125.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0705191012t6c92e1edxae7f5dfcfde97834@mail.gmail.com> <1179619412.3439.423.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705192120u5d95f26aj33b2b969cc86322b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1179671796.6987.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 07:20 +0300, John Babich wrote: > I have been suffering from "analysis paralysis", also known as "writer's > block". That's why I decided to go with a "brain dump" to get the creative > juices flowing. > > At the same time, it was a bit upsetting to have this doc critiqued rather > heavily while clearly in the early stages (at least in my mind). It's > like trying > to write a song and somebody comes along and says, "Hey, dude, your > instrument's out of tune". Sorry I broke your momentum. (I did remove the name from the commit to protect the innocent, but you outed yourself!) ;-) I was hoping someone -- preferably a lurker volunteer -- would see the note and say, "hey, I could help correct those kinds of problems," and hop in to help. We'll see if that happens... I picked up a lot of the style and composition tips I posted while working on this very project as a new user. There are good reasons to take a more objective approach in writing, and you, I, and other writers can keep these things in mind as we write. But if you're simply trying to beef up content quickly, there's no reason to spend a lot of time self-editing, to be sure. In other words, you can look at those criticisms, and say to yourself, "Great, I'll look at that once I've finished dumping raw content." -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Sun May 20 16:45:02 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 17:45:02 +0100 Subject: Pushing content from SMG Message-ID: <3263b11b0705200945k572efc57v83d6cc12b0204a16@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, What do people think of moving some of the content from the software management guide to the DUG and the AG. i.e. Updating and installing software with pirut/pup in the DUG Adding repos in the AG Whatever the split, I think the idea is to move the simple content aimed at end users to someone less scary than all the command line yum stuff... Jon From couf at skynet.be Sun May 20 16:44:46 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 18:44:46 +0200 Subject: Reintroducing myself In-Reply-To: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> References: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46507AFE.3080104@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Guillermo G?mez S. schreef: > Hi, my name is Guillermo Gomez and would like to contribute with > translating (spanish) some docs (dug, yum). > > Im still very confused how to make some progress on this regard. Can > someone tutors me to get going ? > > kind regards > > Sorry for the quite late reply, The process of translating has been described on a number of places around the wiki [1], [2] and we also have the translation quick start guide [3] (TQSG). Just a suggestion: start translating something small (like the TQSG) to get to know the process, before diving into the guides. If things aren't clear, just call back to the list, we'll help you out. Bart [1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation [2]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Join [3]: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/ - -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGUHr+rbZrKtk/D5MRAiLdAJ9hZAndqaSOvRIXs4pfPXt13dww0QCfbVG5 FyzxACtGzQMJXe68rWPKMec= =gqqM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun May 20 16:57:32 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:57:32 +0300 Subject: [Fedora Project Wiki] Update of "Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Desktops" by JohnBabich In-Reply-To: <1179671796.6987.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070519142157.17451.97568@app1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <1179594029.4125.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0705191012t6c92e1edxae7f5dfcfde97834@mail.gmail.com> <1179619412.3439.423.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705192120u5d95f26aj33b2b969cc86322b@mail.gmail.com> <1179671796.6987.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705200957k40030f73t64473bdfdd2863da@mail.gmail.com> On 5/20/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 07:20 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > I have been suffering from "analysis paralysis", also known as "writer's > > block". That's why I decided to go with a "brain dump" to get the creative > > juices flowing. > > > > At the same time, it was a bit upsetting to have this doc critiqued rather > > heavily while clearly in the early stages (at least in my mind). It's > > like trying > > to write a song and somebody comes along and says, "Hey, dude, your > > instrument's out of tune". > > Sorry I broke your momentum. (I did remove the name from the commit to > protect the innocent, but you outed yourself!) ;-) I was hoping someone > -- preferably a lurker volunteer -- would see the note and say, "hey, I > could help correct those kinds of problems," and hop in to help. We'll > see if that happens... > > I picked up a lot of the style and composition tips I posted while > working on this very project as a new user. There are good reasons to > take a more objective approach in writing, and you, I, and other writers > can keep these things in mind as we write. But if you're simply trying > to beef up content quickly, there's no reason to spend a lot of time > self-editing, to be sure. In other words, you can look at those > criticisms, and say to yourself, "Great, I'll look at that once I've > finished dumping raw content." > No problem :-) I was a bit touchy because I was doing quite a bit of thinking out loud. I should have put up a warning sign that this was in a very rough state. You know we agree on proper style and composition. My next step is to complete the outline and invite others to join in. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From couf at skynet.be Sun May 20 17:21:12 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 19:21:12 +0200 Subject: Bye bye inconsistencies Message-ID: <46508388.8080801@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, Some old habits should change. We're going to update all the /en/ to /en_US/ on our http://docs.fedoraproject.org site. This will allow us to use a consistent language code throughout the whole toolchain and will allow en_UK / en_AU versions of our docs to coexist with the current en_US versions. Any objections, possible complications by doing this change? Bart - -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGUIOIrbZrKtk/D5MRAut+AJ4jetXKmXHiaL9tl8rH/j5d1b+7OgCfQlgX jMv3lbVvPoWJpItqtCy35xQ= =a7JI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 20 18:03:13 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:03:13 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting YYYY-MM-DD IRC log Message-ID: <1179684193.3439.443.camel@erato.phig.org> HTML output is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20070520 09:04 < quaid> 09:05 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda 09:06 < quaid> 07:42 < stickster> If I can connect from my buddy's house I will do so 09:06 < quaid> 07:45 < stickster> In case I don't make it, release-notes are currently building fine from CVS HEAD 09:06 < quaid> 07:45 < stickster> The IG is progressing, see f-docs-commits for detail 09:06 < quaid> 07:46 < stickster> Closd a number of bugs yesterday for IG 09:07 < quaid> so, at least those essential pieces are in the clear 09:07 < quaid> I still plan a good round of edits to the IG 09:07 < quaid> anyone should give it a go; you can use Yelp to display the XML in real-time for easy editing fun. 09:08 < JonRob> (still to get my teeth into cvs...maybe this is a good chance) 09:09 < quaid> yeh, it's pretty easy 09:10 < couf> ah yeah, saw that some time ago, any link? 09:11 < quaid> sorry, CVS usage? 09:11 < couf> quaid: yelp :-) 09:11 < quaid> ah 09:11 < couf> my bad 09:11 < quaid> hmm, you know ... we haven't a write up 09:11 < quaid> maybe under DP/Tools ? 09:11 < JonRob> it's in the archives...the bit about yelp 09:12 < quaid> anyway, you just do 'yelp /path/to/RELEASE-NOTES.xml 09:12 < quaid> anyway, you just do 'yelp /path/to/RELEASE-NOTES.xml &' 09:12 < quaid> it will build up the whole document that is called by that parent XML file, and display it 09:12 < couf> ah right, thanks 09:13 < quaid> then when you edit, you just reload (I close and reopen, since there isn't a reload function I've seen) 09:13 < quaid> so, about the guides ... 09:13 < JonRob> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-April/msg00199.html 09:13 * jmbuser will document this soon - very slick 09:13 < JonRob> is the message 09:13 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule 09:13 < couf> thanks JonRob 09:14 < quaid> ok, now that schedule is for anything that we want to get translated in time for release 09:14 < quaid> last week we decided that the relnotes and IG are the two "must haves" for release 09:15 < quaid> so, yes, anything the group can do to help make sure that the IG goes to trans on time is a Good Thing. 09:15 < quaid> as for the other guides ... 09:15 < quaid> we have strong leadership from jmbuser for the UG, but ... 09:16 < quaid> jmbuser: do you have an identified team helping? or is it a loose group? do you want it formalized more? 09:16 < jmbuser> quaid: No identifiable group so far...correct me if I'm wrong 09:17 < quaid> hmm 09:17 < JonRob> i'll jump in if you need it 09:17 < JonRob> will have a lot more time this week 09:17 < quaid> well, yes the folks on the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Contributors page ... aren't that evident currently 09:17 < jmbuser> quaid: I'm willing to solo, but I would prefer an ensemble effort 09:17 < jmbuser> JonRob: Thanks 09:17 < quaid> JonRob: consider yourself engaged with this then :) 09:18 < quaid> add yourself to the Contributors page 09:18 < JonRob> quaid: sure 09:18 < JonRob> jmbuser: no problem :D 09:18 < jmbuser> I need to put the framework in place - and then please fill in where you can 09:18 < jmbuser> quaid: +1 09:18 < couf> jmbuser's grand idea for the FUG :-) 09:18 < quaid> jmbuser: one tip, feel free to brain-dump into the wiki, just put a comment in the commit note about the state of the content 09:19 < quaid> that helps editors know "ignore, edit, or make pariah from" :) 09:19 < jmbuser> quaid: NP - I noticed an "es" translation of the docs/drafts version today - very scary 09:19 < quaid> in the wiki? eek 09:19 < couf> yeah, should we talk to that guy? 09:19 < quaid> definitely shouldn't be translating in the Wiki 09:19 < jmbuser> quaid: I was thinking of a warning label 09:20 < quaid> yes 09:20 < couf> he's been keeping up with your work for most of it 09:20 < quaid> at this point, we are moving clearly to Plone, although the schedule is a bit unknown when what will be where 09:20 -!- [splinux] [n=[splinux at fedora/splinux] has joined #fedora-docs 09:21 < quaid> hey, there's one of the folks who has written for the UG 09:21 < jmbuser> I deinitely need to put something like a "blasting zone" danger sign up :-) 09:21 < couf> [splinux]: damien run ;-) 09:21 < jmbuser> s/deinitely/definitely/ 09:21 < quaid> [splinux]: we're on the final push for the Fedora User Guide for F7, if you are interested in helping with this release 09:21 < quaid> :) 09:22 < jmbuser> [splinux]: Welcome 09:23 < [splinux]> hey all 09:23 < couf> so first call is IG, anyone willing to spend some time, get into the FUG 09:23 -!- pingou_laptop [n=pingou at haar113.athome221.WAU.NL] has joined #fedora-docs 09:23 < pingou_laptop> hi 09:23 < quaid> in fact, the IG is just a few days from going out for translation, so that is quite timely 09:23 < [splinux]> quaid, I'm busy for this week :( 09:24 < jmbuser> I will take responsibility for not hassling, er, following up with contributors 09:24 < quaid> [splinux]: no worries, just pouncing since you walked in the channel in a timely fashion :) 09:24 < [splinux]> :) 09:25 < jmbuser> IG is higher priority - we can do an F7 FUG announcement later, like for FC6 DUG 09:26 < quaid> yep 09:26 < quaid> ok, let's try another on-list reminder this week to help with the UG 09:27 < jmbuser> I plan to finish the outline, so that volunteers can pick a section and fill it out 09:27 < quaid> cool! 09:27 < jmbuser> I can also advertise it on my blog - after the outline's in place 09:27 < couf> yeah, get that out somewhere too 09:27 < JonRob> jmbuser: are you going to clean out a lot of the screenshots from later on in the guide? 09:27 < quaid> let's feature it a bit on the DP/Tasks page 09:27 < JonRob> i'll put it in fwn if appropriate 09:28 < quaid> not all the pieces, just a few pointers, maybe start a DP/Tasks/UserGuide for everythin 09:28 < jmbuser> JonRob: I plan to remove all screenshots except for the three desktops and I will leave in icons 09:28 < couf> quaid: +1 09:29 < JonRob> jmbuser: cool 09:29 < jmbuser> JonRob: This will speed things up and make it easier to translate 09:29 < JonRob> will look better too i think 09:29 < jmbuser> JonRob: agreed 09:30 < quaid> I haven't been able to do much extra at all, such as the Tasks page, we still need to jam it ahead as a collaboratively built page 09:32 < JonRob> quaid: if i find the time i'll help out here too 09:33 < quaid> ok, so for the rest of the guides ... 09:34 < couf> AG guide is something we should get started on post F7 09:35 < couf> and as fast as possible, to get this out somewhat half of the F8 cycle, as this doesn't change that much between releases 09:36 < quaid> we're having a bit of a lull in writing participation, is this just the time of year (school end) and near-to-release? 09:36 < quaid> maybe we should do the bulk of writing for these kind of guides between releases, and just have them updated lightly when the next release near? 09:36 < JonRob> quaid: sounds like a good approach, minimises stress! 09:36 < jmbuser> quaid: +1 09:36 < couf> quaid: yeah, a combination of both 09:36 < couf> quaid: +1 09:38 < JonRob> what do people think of the software management guide? 09:39 < JonRob> could a lot of that be pulled into the admin guide? 09:39 < JonRob> or maybe the essentials 09:39 < quaid> well 09:39 < quaid> it's for end-users 09:39 < pingou_laptop> I have to go ... 09:39 -!- pingou_laptop [n=pingou at haar113.athome221.WAU.NL] has left #fedora-docs ["Salut!!"] 09:40 < quaid> JonRob: we wouldn't want to send end-users into a chapter of the AG to learn something, too scary 09:40 < quaid> the idea of the stand-alone is to empower those users, "oh, this is easy" 09:40 < couf> part in DUG, part in AG? 09:40 < JonRob> quaid: yeah but a lot of the SMG is pretty scary! 09:40 < couf> as in updating your software -> DUG, adding repo's -> AG 09:40 < quaid> hmm 09:40 < quaid> true that 09:41 < quaid> mether: you about? 09:41 < quaid> that's a sensible proposal, i think 09:41 < quaid> JonRob: can you make that suggestion (as couf laid it out) on-list? 09:42 < JonRob> quaid: sure 09:42 < quaid> mether has been doing the bulk of the work there, I'm sure he'll think it's a good idea, and the advantage of adding a little content to grow an existing team effort is a good one 09:43 < quaid> ok, then, let's cover the last item ... 09:44 < quaid> en v. en_US etc. 09:44 < quaid> now, I claim near-ignorance here, I've never researched the standards and UTF needs and such 09:45 < JonRob> (posted to the list, hope i got the message across) 09:47 < couf> hmm it seems the official list says it's a three character thing right now 09:47 < couf> http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ISO-639-2_values_8bits-utf-8.txt 09:47 < couf> http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php 09:47 < couf> last one is a bit easier to read 09:49 < quaid> so what is the deal with the _XY 09:49 < couf> it seemed to have never been an ISO-standard 09:49 -!- [splinux] [n=[splinux at fedora/splinux] has left #fedora-docs ["Quitte"] 09:51 < couf> so that would mean ... 09:52 < couf> a) everything has to a ab-type code 09:52 < couf> b) change like everything to the newest ISO standard, meaning docs, software, .... 09:52 < couf> and hope that gettext get's this 09:57 < couf> ah, got the _XY, it's the country code, which may be added to specify to which country this specific translation applies 09:59 < quaid> ah 09:59 < quaid> cool 10:00 < quaid> couf: we do specifically use US English in these cases 10:00 < quaid> why? 10:00 < quaid> I want a Brit to be able to write en_UK and then I can become a translator! 10:01 < couf> quaid: you're americans ;-) 10:01 < couf> as such, should we move everything on docs.fp.org to use en_US instead of en? 10:02 < quaid> probably 10:02 < quaid> in fact, that is a leftover inconsistency yes 10:03 < quaid> ok, let's confirm this detail to the list so there are no surprises 10:03 * quaid asks couf to send that email 10:03 < quaid> and then we can close this meetin' 10:03 < couf> sure 10:04 < quaid> rather ... any other business/topics? 10:04 < couf> ow yeah, I've got one left 10:04 < couf> are we gonna update the style to the new static page style, or stay like it is and wait for plone? 10:05 < JonRob> there's a new static page style!? 10:06 < couf> JonRob: yeah, it's coming http://fedora.riczho.dyndns.org/static/ 10:06 < quaid> oh, we can wait 10:06 < quaid> well, I see what you mean 10:06 < quaid> we could update docs.fp.o, sure 10:06 < quaid> ultimately, yes, Plone will handle it, and we'll port the CSS to the Wiki as well 10:06 < JonRob> couf: cool :D 10:07 < quaid> JonRob: static page because we want the front of fp.o to load fast for the release, unlike for FC-6 10:07 < quaid> so we're doing two-birds, one-stone -- static page and new style for the site 10:07 < JonRob> quaid: yeah, is awesome idea i think 10:07 < quaid> couf: let's plan on updating docs.fp.o with the new style, once it is fully baked 10:08 < quaid> it's actually in CVS now, so we could start experimenting 10:08 < couf> quaid: cool 10:08 * quaid is not sure if there are any here who like to play with CSS 10:08 < quaid> actually, I like it now, but I'm jammed on time, so I probably won't play 10:08 * couf thinks glezos ;-) 10:08 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:08 < quaid> but it is all in cvs.fp.o:/cvs/web/static 10:09 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has joined #fedora-docs 10:09 < quaid> yeah, when glezos gets back from galavanting around, we'll ask him, if it's not done already :) 10:09 < couf> okay, well if I find some time, I'll have a got at it 10:10 < couf> that's all for me 10:10 < quaid> it's probably pretty straightforward 10:10 < quaid> esp with the Web Developer plugin for Firefox 10:10 < quaid> ok, if there is nothing more ... 10:10 * quaid waits 30 seconds 10:10 < couf> Web Devel + Firebug ++ :-) 10:11 < quaid> do they do similar things? or are they complementary? 10:11 < quaid> final countdown ... 10:11 < quaid> 5 10:11 < quaid> 4 10:11 < quaid> 3 10:11 < quaid> 2 10:11 < quaid> 1 10:11 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 20 18:04:32 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:04:32 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-20 IRC log Message-ID: <1179684272.3439.445.camel@erato.phig.org> ... must ... remember ... to change ... canned Subject ... HTML output is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20070520 09:04 < quaid> 09:05 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda 09:06 < quaid> 07:42 < stickster> If I can connect from my buddy's house I will do so 09:06 < quaid> 07:45 < stickster> In case I don't make it, release-notes are currently building fine from CVS HEAD 09:06 < quaid> 07:45 < stickster> The IG is progressing, see f-docs-commits for detail 09:06 < quaid> 07:46 < stickster> Closd a number of bugs yesterday for IG 09:07 < quaid> so, at least those essential pieces are in the clear 09:07 < quaid> I still plan a good round of edits to the IG 09:07 < quaid> anyone should give it a go; you can use Yelp to display the XML in real-time for easy editing fun. 09:08 < JonRob> (still to get my teeth into cvs...maybe this is a good chance) 09:09 < quaid> yeh, it's pretty easy 09:10 < couf> ah yeah, saw that some time ago, any link? 09:11 < quaid> sorry, CVS usage? 09:11 < couf> quaid: yelp :-) 09:11 < quaid> ah 09:11 < couf> my bad 09:11 < quaid> hmm, you know ... we haven't a write up 09:11 < quaid> maybe under DP/Tools ? 09:11 < JonRob> it's in the archives...the bit about yelp 09:12 < quaid> anyway, you just do 'yelp /path/to/RELEASE-NOTES.xml 09:12 < quaid> anyway, you just do 'yelp /path/to/RELEASE-NOTES.xml &' 09:12 < quaid> it will build up the whole document that is called by that parent XML file, and display it 09:12 < couf> ah right, thanks 09:13 < quaid> then when you edit, you just reload (I close and reopen, since there isn't a reload function I've seen) 09:13 < quaid> so, about the guides ... 09:13 < JonRob> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-April/msg00199.html 09:13 * jmbuser will document this soon - very slick 09:13 < JonRob> is the message 09:13 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule 09:13 < couf> thanks JonRob 09:14 < quaid> ok, now that schedule is for anything that we want to get translated in time for release 09:14 < quaid> last week we decided that the relnotes and IG are the two "must haves" for release 09:15 < quaid> so, yes, anything the group can do to help make sure that the IG goes to trans on time is a Good Thing. 09:15 < quaid> as for the other guides ... 09:15 < quaid> we have strong leadership from jmbuser for the UG, but ... 09:16 < quaid> jmbuser: do you have an identified team helping? or is it a loose group? do you want it formalized more? 09:16 < jmbuser> quaid: No identifiable group so far...correct me if I'm wrong 09:17 < quaid> hmm 09:17 < JonRob> i'll jump in if you need it 09:17 < JonRob> will have a lot more time this week 09:17 < quaid> well, yes the folks on the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Contributors page ... aren't that evident currently 09:17 < jmbuser> quaid: I'm willing to solo, but I would prefer an ensemble effort 09:17 < jmbuser> JonRob: Thanks 09:17 < quaid> JonRob: consider yourself engaged with this then :) 09:18 < quaid> add yourself to the Contributors page 09:18 < JonRob> quaid: sure 09:18 < JonRob> jmbuser: no problem :D 09:18 < jmbuser> I need to put the framework in place - and then please fill in where you can 09:18 < jmbuser> quaid: +1 09:18 < couf> jmbuser's grand idea for the FUG :-) 09:18 < quaid> jmbuser: one tip, feel free to brain-dump into the wiki, just put a comment in the commit note about the state of the content 09:19 < quaid> that helps editors know "ignore, edit, or make pariah from" :) 09:19 < jmbuser> quaid: NP - I noticed an "es" translation of the docs/drafts version today - very scary 09:19 < quaid> in the wiki? eek 09:19 < couf> yeah, should we talk to that guy? 09:19 < quaid> definitely shouldn't be translating in the Wiki 09:19 < jmbuser> quaid: I was thinking of a warning label 09:20 < quaid> yes 09:20 < couf> he's been keeping up with your work for most of it 09:20 < quaid> at this point, we are moving clearly to Plone, although the schedule is a bit unknown when what will be where 09:20 -!- [splinux] [n=[splinux at fedora/splinux] has joined #fedora-docs 09:21 < quaid> hey, there's one of the folks who has written for the UG 09:21 < jmbuser> I deinitely need to put something like a "blasting zone" danger sign up :-) 09:21 < couf> [splinux]: damien run ;-) 09:21 < jmbuser> s/deinitely/definitely/ 09:21 < quaid> [splinux]: we're on the final push for the Fedora User Guide for F7, if you are interested in helping with this release 09:21 < quaid> :) 09:22 < jmbuser> [splinux]: Welcome 09:23 < [splinux]> hey all 09:23 < couf> so first call is IG, anyone willing to spend some time, get into the FUG 09:23 -!- pingou_laptop [n=pingou at haar113.athome221.WAU.NL] has joined #fedora-docs 09:23 < pingou_laptop> hi 09:23 < quaid> in fact, the IG is just a few days from going out for translation, so that is quite timely 09:23 < [splinux]> quaid, I'm busy for this week :( 09:24 < jmbuser> I will take responsibility for not hassling, er, following up with contributors 09:24 < quaid> [splinux]: no worries, just pouncing since you walked in the channel in a timely fashion :) 09:24 < [splinux]> :) 09:25 < jmbuser> IG is higher priority - we can do an F7 FUG announcement later, like for FC6 DUG 09:26 < quaid> yep 09:26 < quaid> ok, let's try another on-list reminder this week to help with the UG 09:27 < jmbuser> I plan to finish the outline, so that volunteers can pick a section and fill it out 09:27 < quaid> cool! 09:27 < jmbuser> I can also advertise it on my blog - after the outline's in place 09:27 < couf> yeah, get that out somewhere too 09:27 < JonRob> jmbuser: are you going to clean out a lot of the screenshots from later on in the guide? 09:27 < quaid> let's feature it a bit on the DP/Tasks page 09:27 < JonRob> i'll put it in fwn if appropriate 09:28 < quaid> not all the pieces, just a few pointers, maybe start a DP/Tasks/UserGuide for everythin 09:28 < jmbuser> JonRob: I plan to remove all screenshots except for the three desktops and I will leave in icons 09:28 < couf> quaid: +1 09:29 < JonRob> jmbuser: cool 09:29 < jmbuser> JonRob: This will speed things up and make it easier to translate 09:29 < JonRob> will look better too i think 09:29 < jmbuser> JonRob: agreed 09:30 < quaid> I haven't been able to do much extra at all, such as the Tasks page, we still need to jam it ahead as a collaboratively built page 09:32 < JonRob> quaid: if i find the time i'll help out here too 09:33 < quaid> ok, so for the rest of the guides ... 09:34 < couf> AG guide is something we should get started on post F7 09:35 < couf> and as fast as possible, to get this out somewhat half of the F8 cycle, as this doesn't change that much between releases 09:36 < quaid> we're having a bit of a lull in writing participation, is this just the time of year (school end) and near-to-release? 09:36 < quaid> maybe we should do the bulk of writing for these kind of guides between releases, and just have them updated lightly when the next release near? 09:36 < JonRob> quaid: sounds like a good approach, minimises stress! 09:36 < jmbuser> quaid: +1 09:36 < couf> quaid: yeah, a combination of both 09:36 < couf> quaid: +1 09:38 < JonRob> what do people think of the software management guide? 09:39 < JonRob> could a lot of that be pulled into the admin guide? 09:39 < JonRob> or maybe the essentials 09:39 < quaid> well 09:39 < quaid> it's for end-users 09:39 < pingou_laptop> I have to go ... 09:39 -!- pingou_laptop [n=pingou at haar113.athome221.WAU.NL] has left #fedora-docs ["Salut!!"] 09:40 < quaid> JonRob: we wouldn't want to send end-users into a chapter of the AG to learn something, too scary 09:40 < quaid> the idea of the stand-alone is to empower those users, "oh, this is easy" 09:40 < couf> part in DUG, part in AG? 09:40 < JonRob> quaid: yeah but a lot of the SMG is pretty scary! 09:40 < couf> as in updating your software -> DUG, adding repo's -> AG 09:40 < quaid> hmm 09:40 < quaid> true that 09:41 < quaid> mether: you about? 09:41 < quaid> that's a sensible proposal, i think 09:41 < quaid> JonRob: can you make that suggestion (as couf laid it out) on-list? 09:42 < JonRob> quaid: sure 09:42 < quaid> mether has been doing the bulk of the work there, I'm sure he'll think it's a good idea, and the advantage of adding a little content to grow an existing team effort is a good one 09:43 < quaid> ok, then, let's cover the last item ... 09:44 < quaid> en v. en_US etc. 09:44 < quaid> now, I claim near-ignorance here, I've never researched the standards and UTF needs and such 09:45 < JonRob> (posted to the list, hope i got the message across) 09:47 < couf> hmm it seems the official list says it's a three character thing right now 09:47 < couf> http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/ISO-639-2_values_8bits-utf-8.txt 09:47 < couf> http://www.loc.gov/standards/iso639-2/php/code_list.php 09:47 < couf> last one is a bit easier to read 09:49 < quaid> so what is the deal with the _XY 09:49 < couf> it seemed to have never been an ISO-standard 09:49 -!- [splinux] [n=[splinux at fedora/splinux] has left #fedora-docs ["Quitte"] 09:51 < couf> so that would mean ... 09:52 < couf> a) everything has to a ab-type code 09:52 < couf> b) change like everything to the newest ISO standard, meaning docs, software, .... 09:52 < couf> and hope that gettext get's this 09:57 < couf> ah, got the _XY, it's the country code, which may be added to specify to which country this specific translation applies 09:59 < quaid> ah 09:59 < quaid> cool 10:00 < quaid> couf: we do specifically use US English in these cases 10:00 < quaid> why? 10:00 < quaid> I want a Brit to be able to write en_UK and then I can become a translator! 10:01 < couf> quaid: you're americans ;-) 10:01 < couf> as such, should we move everything on docs.fp.org to use en_US instead of en? 10:02 < quaid> probably 10:02 < quaid> in fact, that is a leftover inconsistency yes 10:03 < quaid> ok, let's confirm this detail to the list so there are no surprises 10:03 * quaid asks couf to send that email 10:03 < quaid> and then we can close this meetin' 10:03 < couf> sure 10:04 < quaid> rather ... any other business/topics? 10:04 < couf> ow yeah, I've got one left 10:04 < couf> are we gonna update the style to the new static page style, or stay like it is and wait for plone? 10:05 < JonRob> there's a new static page style!? 10:06 < couf> JonRob: yeah, it's coming http://fedora.riczho.dyndns.org/static/ 10:06 < quaid> oh, we can wait 10:06 < quaid> well, I see what you mean 10:06 < quaid> we could update docs.fp.o, sure 10:06 < quaid> ultimately, yes, Plone will handle it, and we'll port the CSS to the Wiki as well 10:06 < JonRob> couf: cool :D 10:07 < quaid> JonRob: static page because we want the front of fp.o to load fast for the release, unlike for FC-6 10:07 < quaid> so we're doing two-birds, one-stone -- static page and new style for the site 10:07 < JonRob> quaid: yeah, is awesome idea i think 10:07 < quaid> couf: let's plan on updating docs.fp.o with the new style, once it is fully baked 10:08 < quaid> it's actually in CVS now, so we could start experimenting 10:08 < couf> quaid: cool 10:08 * quaid is not sure if there are any here who like to play with CSS 10:08 < quaid> actually, I like it now, but I'm jammed on time, so I probably won't play 10:08 * couf thinks glezos ;-) 10:08 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 10:08 < quaid> but it is all in cvs.fp.o:/cvs/web/static 10:09 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has joined #fedora-docs 10:09 < quaid> yeah, when glezos gets back from galavanting around, we'll ask him, if it's not done already :) 10:09 < couf> okay, well if I find some time, I'll have a got at it 10:10 < couf> that's all for me 10:10 < quaid> it's probably pretty straightforward 10:10 < quaid> esp with the Web Developer plugin for Firefox 10:10 < quaid> ok, if there is nothing more ... 10:10 * quaid waits 30 seconds 10:10 < couf> Web Devel + Firebug ++ :-) 10:11 < quaid> do they do similar things? or are they complementary? 10:11 < quaid> final countdown ... 10:11 < quaid> 5 10:11 < quaid> 4 10:11 < quaid> 3 10:11 < quaid> 2 10:11 < quaid> 1 10:11 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 20 18:24:21 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 11:24:21 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-15 Summary Message-ID: <1179685461.3439.454.camel@erato.phig.org> Attendees: ----------- = FDSCo = Bart Couvreur (couf) Paul W. Frields (stickster) Karsten Wade (quaid) Bob Jensen (EvilBob) John Babich (jmbuser) = Peanut Gallery = Guillermo Gomez (gomix) Summary: --------- * Translation of release notes and related files that comprise the fedora-release-notes package are essentially complete: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics * No additional items were added to the release notes, we'll be relying upon the Web-only version * Each XML page of the release notes is going to have a copy of the admonition to refer to the Web-based notes for the latest information. Annoying, but with deep-linking and such, it makes sure people know about those Web-only notes. This will be on substantive pages, not e.g. Colophon.xml * PackageChanges content is going to be on the Wiki only, so is removed from the packaged notes * Installation Guide (IG) on schedule for translation drop and release: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#Guides * Translations of the guides are released on a rolling basis -- when done, they are published. This is different from e.g. the release notes, which need to ship with the ISO. When a translation is completed, the translator posts a note on the publish page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue * Target content for F7 release is: release notes (and related bits) and the Installation Guide. We are pushing to release the English version of the guides * The PublishQueue needs to make it into the Translation Quick Start Guide: http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/198848 ... at least until we have a new method in the middle of this summer :) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun May 20 22:09:27 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 18:09:27 -0400 Subject: Bye bye inconsistencies In-Reply-To: <46508388.8080801@skynet.be> References: <46508388.8080801@skynet.be> Message-ID: <1179698967.17364.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 19:21 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Some old habits should change. We're going to update all the /en/ to > /en_US/ on our http://docs.fedoraproject.org site. > > This will allow us to use a consistent language code throughout the > whole toolchain and will allow en_UK / en_AU versions of our docs to > coexist with the current en_US versions. > > Any objections, possible complications by doing this change? None whatsoever, +1. I'm sure you'll safeguard all links and such as you move things around. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ccheng at redhat.com Mon May 21 01:34:30 2007 From: ccheng at redhat.com (Chester Cheng) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 11:34:30 +1000 Subject: Bye bye inconsistencies In-Reply-To: <1179698967.17364.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <46508388.8080801@skynet.be> <1179698967.17364.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4650F726.1070307@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 19:21 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > >> Some old habits should change. We're going to update all the /en/ to >> /en_US/ on our http://docs.fedoraproject.org site. >> >> This will allow us to use a consistent language code throughout the >> whole toolchain and will allow en_UK / en_AU versions of our docs to >> coexist with the current en_US versions. >> >> Any objections, possible complications by doing this change? >> > > None whatsoever, +1. I'm sure you'll safeguard all links and such as > you move things around. > > Hi, Wouldn't it be "en-US" / "en-AU", based on RFC3066? http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt Cheers, Chester From couf at skynet.be Mon May 21 04:48:11 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 06:48:11 +0200 Subject: Bye bye inconsistencies In-Reply-To: <4650F726.1070307@redhat.com> References: <46508388.8080801@skynet.be> <1179698967.17364.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4650F726.1070307@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4651248B.9080701@skynet.be> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Chester Cheng schreef: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 19:21 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: >> >>> Some old habits should change. We're going to update all the /en/ to >>> /en_US/ on our http://docs.fedoraproject.org site. >>> >>> This will allow us to use a consistent language code throughout the >>> whole toolchain and will allow en_UK / en_AU versions of our docs to >>> coexist with the current en_US versions. >>> >>> Any objections, possible complications by doing this change? >>> >> >> None whatsoever, +1. I'm sure you'll safeguard all links and such as >> you move things around. >> >> > Hi, > > Wouldn't it be "en-US" / "en-AU", based on RFC3066? > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt > > Cheers, > Chester > Aha, I knew I missed something when looking up the standards yesterday. OTOH, this would mean inconsistencies in our main CVS, as we use en_US everywhere. The same counts for the trans CVS, which we should update accordingly, if we want to be okay with the rfc. Thanks, Bart - -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGUSSLrbZrKtk/D5MRAsBfAJkBHmEnAkrCwBBsI4cOpbDXi+gLGgCfYAjX bUGtyiwoWa0Oib1HfRQcHlM= =L9lZ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 21 05:12:50 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 20 May 2007 22:12:50 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-20 Summary Message-ID: <1179724370.3439.483.camel@erato.phig.org> Attendees: ----------- = FDSCo Folken = Bart Couvreur (couf) John Babich (jmbuser) Karsten Wade (quaid) [[Note]] No quorum of FDSCo were present = Ye Olde Peanut Gallery = Jonathan Roberts (jonrob) Summary: --------- * Release notes are building from CVS HEAD, ready for F7 * Top writing and editing need this week is the Installation Guide; help if you can: export CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedora.redhat.com:/cvs/docs cvs -z3 login cvs -z3 co install-guide-devel cd install-guide-devel/install-guide make xml-validate ## this step generates needed XML files yelp en_US/install-guide.xml & * Post-edit, Installation Guide on-target for POT drop for translation * All other guides are not essential for F7 release; they will complete ASAP, then be made available for translation on a rolling basis * Bulk of writing for other guides (User, Administration) to be done between releases, then updated as needed just prior to the next release * Proposing that the Software Management Guide content be divided into the User and Administration Guides: "updating your software -> DUG, adding repo's -> AG" * We need to make sure that our published documents on docs.fp.o are using the ab_XY (language_COUNTRYCODE) designation, e.g. en_US, pt_BR. * docs.fp.o could happily take on the new CSS look/feel being rolled out for F7 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 21 10:09:43 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 03:09:43 -0700 Subject: Wiki as user manual (was Re: Self Introduction: Frank) In-Reply-To: <1177878360.5943.26.camel@thabox.home> References: <1177878360.5943.26.camel@thabox.home> Message-ID: <1179742183.3439.525.camel@erato.phig.org> This was an unsent email that had some value, so I am completing and sending. We'll have to start these ideas in earnest once Fedora 7 is out the door. On Sun, 2007-04-29 at 13:26 -0700, Francis Earl wrote: > There are no User Manuals for Fedora users, I believe the wiki should > become exactly that. A User Manual for Users by Users, and I don't think > such things can be written by anyone but the users :) I've been sitting with this idea all day (month), and it keeps popping back forward into my thoughts. I'm really liking this idea; it's a reinventing of what the Fedora Wiki has become. It has been the *everything* Website. For that reason, you find: * Tighter ACLs * Unobvious and confusing mixture of "formal project content" from "community documentation." * Too many processes in confusing places being applied through the Wiki * The Wiki is a beat-up hammer, and every problem is a nail * Etc. The CMS we are very actively working on making live (Plone) gives us a way to make "easy to write and edit" available, similar to a Wiki, without having to force the Wiki to be a pseudo-CMS. This means we can reinvent the Wiki as a community open collaboration space. We can change the rules to be easier on "how docs should sound". Frank, what you have come across (that isn't making sense to you from where you have been before) is this -- the Wiki was forced into services it really wasn't made for. > I feel like I just went through an interview process, is that really the > feel people want for contribution to the project? Maybe not so much, but maybe just a little bit. To contribute to the bigger documentation effort, yes, we want to know that you have a clue, can write, can put thoughts together coherently, and (very importantly) are going to stick around long enough to help maintain the content you are contributing. For the Wiki and community documentation, nope, we probably do not need anything like this. Fortunately, we have the all-clear to make the Wiki easier with a click-through CLA and no GPG-signing of anything. Another post-Fedora 7 release task to handle. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 21 10:35:44 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 03:35:44 -0700 Subject: Fragmentation in Linux Documentation? In-Reply-To: <462A77D3.5070105@gmx.de> References: <46281308.3060400@fedoraproject.org> <1177033934.3286.326.camel@erato.phig.org> <46281F56.4050107@fedoraproject.org> <1177041620.3286.343.camel@erato.phig.org> <462A77D3.5070105@gmx.de> Message-ID: <1179743744.3439.554.camel@erato.phig.org> A belated follow-up that has been sitting on my desktop ... On Sat, 2007-04-21 at 22:45 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote: > Has docbook something like ifdef ? Yes, although the exact mechanism for XML escapes my ability to recall at the moment. > So a > > make fedora > > would produce the manuals in Fedora oder Ubuntu flavor ? Right. I think the mechanics of sharing a common base with distro variants is the easy part. The hard part is stuff such as - different community styles; different expectations of quality, quantity, etc.; different writing styles; difficulty in creating an upstream with the authority to enforce style guidelines, etc. > Another problem I hit several times is to keep various languages in > sync. If you don`t see excatly what changed in the original-document, > it`s near to impossible. > > So keeping the documentation per chapter or even smaller in a cvs would > help. We typically do this modularity for DocBook, sometimes down to the
-per-file. Not sure how this would work with the POT file; perhaps there could be some way to group/ungroup/regroup from modular files. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 21 10:42:13 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 03:42:13 -0700 Subject: REQUEST: specific narrow focus list for my participation In-Reply-To: <1178722768.17964.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org> References: <1178722768.17964.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org> Message-ID: <1179744134.3439.563.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 14:59 +0000, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote: > Specific to this subject, using the "ifconfig" statement to establish an > alias IP address does produce what seems to be a valid definition, but > when a packet is built it contains an incorrect source IP address. This > is true on FC-6 up-to-date within weeks, but not true on ubuntu platform > operated by an associate of mine. Until FC documentation contains the > passage to describe the "should be" definition (that I can not locate > and believe may not exist) I can not consider this situation to be a > software bug. The way you describe it, it sounds more like a bug. Is there any reason not to file a bug report on it? Search for a similar report: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/query.cgi?format=simple And/or file a report on the 'net-tools' package that provides /sbin/ifconfig: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=Fedora%20Core If it does turn out to need a mention in the documentation, then it would belong here somewhere: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 21 10:52:00 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 03:52:00 -0700 Subject: content developer, writer, oh my! Message-ID: <1179744720.3439.576.camel@erato.phig.org> On this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join It previously said "Content Developer" for this link: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join#ContentDeveloper Where it says, "Description of this role: Communicate through words." So why don't we say "Technical Writer"? Well, I did update the role today to say "Content Developer (Writer)" instead, so at least it's not deceiving. One reason is to maintain the developer/contributor paradigm -- everyone is a developer. Another is to align with new industry standards. Yet, I have personally had problems with this label, so I am mixed about the usage. The main reason is that most job roles look for "technical writing" skills, which are specific to technical roles/needs. A "content developer" could be developing content about toothpaste and cat food; there is nothing in the title that specifies that it is focused on the technical aspects. Your thoughts? Do you care? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon May 21 11:21:14 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 14:21:14 +0300 Subject: Fragmentation in Linux Documentation? In-Reply-To: <1179743744.3439.554.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <46281308.3060400@fedoraproject.org> <1177033934.3286.326.camel@erato.phig.org> <46281F56.4050107@fedoraproject.org> <1177041620.3286.343.camel@erato.phig.org> <462A77D3.5070105@gmx.de> <1179743744.3439.554.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705210421j2ecd1240t2387d6616edbef35@mail.gmail.com> On 5/21/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > A belated follow-up that has been sitting on my desktop ... > > On Sat, 2007-04-21 at 22:45 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote: > > > Has docbook something like ifdef ? > > Yes, although the exact mechanism for XML escapes my ability to recall > at the moment. AFAIK, the most syntactically correct mechanism for conditionally branching in XML is XPATH. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XPath for a quick explanation. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Dcos Project From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 21 13:28:05 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 09:28:05 -0400 Subject: content developer, writer, oh my! In-Reply-To: <1179744720.3439.576.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1179744720.3439.576.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1179754085.28017.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 03:52 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On this page: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join > > It previously said "Content Developer" for this link: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join#ContentDeveloper > > Where it says, "Description of this role: Communicate through words." > > So why don't we say "Technical Writer"? Well, I did update the role > today to say "Content Developer (Writer)" instead, so at least it's not > deceiving. > > One reason is to maintain the developer/contributor paradigm -- everyone > is a developer. > > Another is to align with new industry standards. > > Yet, I have personally had problems with this label, so I am mixed about > the usage. The main reason is that most job roles look for "technical > writing" skills, which are specific to technical roles/needs. A > "content developer" could be developing content about toothpaste and cat > food; there is nothing in the title that specifies that it is focused on > the technical aspects. > > Your thoughts? Do you care? Meh. No strong feelings either way -- I doubt anyone comes to our site to learn about cat food, but certainly if we are interesting in capturing into our contributor base folks specifically looking for "Technical Writer" via google or elsewhere, this seems like a good idea. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 21 13:25:17 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 09:25:17 -0400 Subject: Fragmentation in Linux Documentation? In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0705210421j2ecd1240t2387d6616edbef35@mail.gmail.com> References: <46281308.3060400@fedoraproject.org> <1177033934.3286.326.camel@erato.phig.org> <46281F56.4050107@fedoraproject.org> <1177041620.3286.343.camel@erato.phig.org> <462A77D3.5070105@gmx.de> <1179743744.3439.554.camel@erato.phig.org> <9d2c731f0705210421j2ecd1240t2387d6616edbef35@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1179753917.28017.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 14:21 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On 5/21/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > A belated follow-up that has been sitting on my desktop ... > > > > On Sat, 2007-04-21 at 22:45 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote: > > > > > Has docbook something like ifdef ? > > > > Yes, although the exact mechanism for XML escapes my ability to recall > > at the moment. > > AFAIK, the most syntactically correct mechanism for conditionally > branching in XML > is XPATH. > > See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XPath for a quick explanation. I was under the impression that XPath was more a specification for locating or addressing parts of an XML document. There's much easier ways to deal with this in DocBook using simple XSLT, e.g.: http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/Profiling.html -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mhideo at redhat.com Mon May 21 16:07:58 2007 From: mhideo at redhat.com (Michael Smith) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 02:07:58 +1000 Subject: Bye bye inconsistencies In-Reply-To: <4650F726.1070307@redhat.com> References: <46508388.8080801@skynet.be> <1179698967.17364.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4650F726.1070307@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1179763678.4589.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Great spot, Chester! On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 11:34 +1000, Chester Cheng wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 19:21 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > > > >> Some old habits should change. We're going to update all the /en/ to > >> /en_US/ on our http://docs.fedoraproject.org site. > >> > >> This will allow us to use a consistent language code throughout the > >> whole toolchain and will allow en_UK / en_AU versions of our docs to > >> coexist with the current en_US versions. > >> > >> Any objections, possible complications by doing this change? > >> > > > > None whatsoever, +1. I'm sure you'll safeguard all links and such as > > you move things around. > > > > > Hi, > > Wouldn't it be "en-US" / "en-AU", based on RFC3066? > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt > > Cheers, > Chester > From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 21 19:54:07 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 12:54:07 -0700 Subject: Bye bye inconsistencies In-Reply-To: <4651248B.9080701@skynet.be> References: <46508388.8080801@skynet.be> <1179698967.17364.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4650F726.1070307@redhat.com> <4651248B.9080701@skynet.be> Message-ID: <1179777247.3439.655.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 06:48 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Chester Cheng schreef: > > > > Wouldn't it be "en-US" / "en-AU", based on RFC3066? > > http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt > > > > Cheers, > > Chester > > > Aha, I knew I missed something when looking up the standards yesterday. > OTOH, this would mean inconsistencies in our main CVS, as we use en_US > everywhere. The same counts for the trans CVS, which we should update > accordingly, if we want to be okay with the rfc. When you say trans CVS, do you mean cvsl10n/cvs.fedoraproject.org or i18n.redhat.com? Oh, I see, yes, the same error is used throughout i18n.redhat.com. I believe Fedora Docs inherited our usage habits from there. So, considering the scope, this sounds like something we'll save for post-F7 release. It includes updating our toolchain, all content in CVS, and how we publish. - Karsten, eye on Plone :) -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ml at deadbabylon.de Mon May 21 23:01:38 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 01:01:38 +0200 Subject: Notes about some issues in KDE-LiveCD for Web-bases Relnotes? Message-ID: <20070522010138.737f154b@localhost.localdomain> Hi. I'm not familiar with your process of the web-based release notes. But I've written down some notes about bugs or issues with the KDE-LiveCD (section "Release Notes"): http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/Notes Of course they must be polished and my english is quite bad. And I'm also not shure if they are worth to mentioned? This is up to you. Sebastian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ccheng at redhat.com Mon May 21 23:51:01 2007 From: ccheng at redhat.com (Chester Cheng) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 09:51:01 +1000 Subject: Bye bye inconsistencies In-Reply-To: <1179777247.3439.655.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <46508388.8080801@skynet.be> <1179698967.17364.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4650F726.1070307@redhat.com> <4651248B.9080701@skynet.be> <1179777247.3439.655.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <46523065.6080603@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 06:48 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > > >> Chester Cheng schreef: >> >>> Wouldn't it be "en-US" / "en-AU", based on RFC3066? >>> http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3066.txt >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Chester >>> >>> >> Aha, I knew I missed something when looking up the standards yesterday. >> OTOH, this would mean inconsistencies in our main CVS, as we use en_US >> everywhere. The same counts for the trans CVS, which we should update >> accordingly, if we want to be okay with the rfc. >> > > When you say trans CVS, do you mean cvsl10n/cvs.fedoraproject.org or > i18n.redhat.com? > > Oh, I see, yes, the same error is used throughout i18n.redhat.com. I > believe Fedora Docs inherited our usage habits from there. > > So, considering the scope, this sounds like something we'll save for > post-F7 release. It includes updating our toolchain, all content in > CVS, and how we publish. > > - Karsten, eye on Plone :) > Hi Karsten and all, Please contact engineers before this change because this may affect software. Regards, Chester From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 22 01:51:36 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 21:51:36 -0400 Subject: Notes about some issues in KDE-LiveCD for Web-bases Relnotes? In-Reply-To: <20070522010138.737f154b@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070522010138.737f154b@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1179798696.22038.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 01:01 +0200, Sebastian Vahl wrote: > Hi. > > I'm not familiar with your process of the web-based release notes. But > I've written down some notes about bugs or issues with the KDE-LiveCD > (section "Release Notes"): > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/Notes > > Of course they must be polished and my english is quite bad. And I'm > also not shure if they are worth to mentioned? This is up to you. I don't see why not. Sebastian, hope it's OK with you, I went ahead and edited this section right on your page. Whenever you're ready you can put it in the KDE pages where appropriate. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 22 06:26:49 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 23:26:49 -0700 Subject: Bye bye inconsistencies In-Reply-To: <46523065.6080603@redhat.com> References: <46508388.8080801@skynet.be> <1179698967.17364.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4650F726.1070307@redhat.com> <4651248B.9080701@skynet.be> <1179777247.3439.655.camel@erato.phig.org> <46523065.6080603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1179815209.3439.688.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 09:51 +1000, Chester Cheng wrote: > Please contact engineers before this change because this may affect > software. +1 That's why we'll wait unto after Fedora 7 releases. It is easy enough for us to change the documentation side, but this will affect any software projects that choose to migrate from i18n.redhat.com to cvs.fedoraproject.org. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 22 06:41:14 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 23:41:14 -0700 Subject: Pushing content from SMG In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705200945k572efc57v83d6cc12b0204a16@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705200945k572efc57v83d6cc12b0204a16@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1179816074.3439.693.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-05-20 at 17:45 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi all, > > What do people think of moving some of the content from the software > management guide to the DUG and the AG. > > i.e. Updating and installing software with pirut/pup in the DUG > Adding repos in the AG > > Whatever the split, I think the idea is to move the simple content > aimed at end users to someone less scary than all the command line yum > stuff... +1 The idea would be to take the system-administration type content (such as setting up a local repo), put that in the Administration Guide. Content about using GUI/CLI to update a system, put that in the User Guide. Rahul, other SMG authors -- what think ye? Looking over the ToC here, I'm not sure what _doesn't_ belong in the UG: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From guillermo.gomez at gmail.com Tue May 22 08:26:10 2007 From: guillermo.gomez at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Guillermo_G=F3mez?=) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 04:26:10 -0400 Subject: Reintroducing myself In-Reply-To: <46507AFE.3080104@skynet.be> References: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> <46507AFE.3080104@skynet.be> Message-ID: <63a901070705220126k746c64fdp889de187b087f03b@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Bart I did finish the TQSG translation (es). Im waiting for an editor for reviewing and publishing it. :) regards Guillermo On 5/20/07, Bart Couvreur wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Guillermo G?mez S. schreef: > > Hi, my name is Guillermo Gomez and would like to contribute with > > translating (spanish) some docs (dug, yum). > > > > Im still very confused how to make some progress on this regard. Can > > someone tutors me to get going ? > > > > kind regards > > > > > Sorry for the quite late reply, > > The process of translating has been described on a number of places > around the wiki [1], [2] and we also have the translation quick start > guide [3] (TQSG). > > Just a suggestion: start translating something small (like the TQSG) to > get to know the process, before diving into the guides. > > If things aren't clear, just call back to the list, we'll help you out. > > Bart > > [1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation > [2]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Join > [3]: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/ > > - -- > Bart > key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQFGUHr+rbZrKtk/D5MRAiLdAJ9hZAndqaSOvRIXs4pfPXt13dww0QCfbVG5 > FyzxACtGzQMJXe68rWPKMec= > =gqqM > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Ing.Guillermo Gomez S. http://fedora.gomix.org From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 22 11:37:41 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 07:37:41 -0400 Subject: Reintroducing myself In-Reply-To: <63a901070705220126k746c64fdp889de187b087f03b@mail.gmail.com> References: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> <46507AFE.3080104@skynet.be> <63a901070705220126k746c64fdp889de187b087f03b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1179833861.22038.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 04:26 -0400, Guillermo G?mez wrote: > I did finish the TQSG translation (es). Im waiting for an editor for > reviewing and publishing it. Hi Guillermo, You should be able to find someone on the "es" translation list to review your work. Once they've done so, mark the Publish Queue page appropriately: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue Then we can publish your translation. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From apocalypse-now at yandex.ru Tue May 22 14:44:54 2007 From: apocalypse-now at yandex.ru (apocalypse-now) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:44:54 +0400 (MSD) Subject: Alexander Bub. SelfIntroduction Message-ID: <465301E6.000002.12877@mfront7.yandex.ru> Alexander Bub My name's Alexander Bub. I am from Rubtsovsk, Altai region, Russian Federation. I work as the teacher of computer subjects at Rubtsovsk technical school for machinebuilding ( databases, operating systems, administration of local networks) and system integrator ( linux & windows heterogenious networks interoperability). The goal of my participation in the project is to help people in my country interested in Fedora OS to get the latest and the most actual information on Fedora linux achievements and the deployment of Fedora OS as the main OS on boxes in my technical school and other institutions country-wide. (Fedora OS is the only worthy alternative I see at my place opposing to the proprietary and pricey Windows XP) I have graduated from one of our local universities and majored in English language. I am a qualified technical writer, thus, I think my skills and experience can help a lot in achievement of my goals. I am an experienced linux user and system administrator. Working at tech school gives me a good opportunity to test Fedora OSes at my computer labs and get my students' opinions on problems we sometimes face when using this operating system. I think my own Fedora experience and interest to this OS would be of certain help to the Fedora community in my country. From apocalypse-now at yandex.ru Tue May 22 14:56:45 2007 From: apocalypse-now at yandex.ru (apocalypse-now) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:56:45 +0400 (MSD) Subject: Alexander Bub. SelfIntroduction + GPG Message-ID: <465304AD.000004.19801@webmail10.yandex.ru> Alexander Bub My name's Alexander Bub. I am from Rubtsovsk, Altai region, Russian Federation. I work as the teacher of computer subjects at Rubtsovsk technical school for machinebuilding ( databases, operating systems, administration of local networks) and system integrator ( linux & windows heterogenious networks interoperability). The goal of my participation in the project is to help people in my country interested in Fedora OS to get the latest and the most actual information on Fedora linux achievements and the deployment of Fedora OS as the main OS on boxes in my technical school and other institutions country-wide. (Fedora OS is the only worthy alternative I see at my place opposing to the proprietary and pricey Windows XP) I have graduated from one of our local universities and majored in English language. I am a qualified technical writer, thus, I think my skills and experience can help a lot in achievement of my goals. I am an experienced linux user and system administrator. Working at tech school gives me a good opportunity to test Fedora OSes at my computer labs and get my students' opinions on problems we sometimes face when using this operating system. I think my own Fedora experience and interest to this OS would be of certain help to the Fedora community in my country. [root at fedora endorphine]# gpg --fingerprint 5E02C3D9 pub 1024D/5E02C3D9 2007-05-22 Key fingerprint = 8C7F 24AF DD9D 9F2C A3F0 DF1C 09DD 3407 5E02 C3D9 uid Alexander Bub (Fedora rules!!!) sub 2048g/D5F152D4 2007-05-22 From romal at gmx.de Tue May 22 16:57:56 2007 From: romal at gmx.de (Robert M. Albrecht) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:57:56 +0200 Subject: hardware solutions and other one-off In-Reply-To: <464CADED.3070601@redhat.com> References: <1179341514.3439.222.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705161242n568a7749m318e28d4e4216f36@mail.gmail.com> <464CADED.3070601@redhat.com> Message-ID: <46532114.1040107@gmx.de> Hi, I found phpmyfaq today: http://www.phpmyfaq.de/ Could be a usable tool for a knowledgebase ? cu romal Sam Folk-Williams schrieb: > Jonathan Roberts wrote: >>> Anyone interested in moving ahead on this? A post Fedora 7 project, to >>> be sure. Sam Folk-Williams, iirc, was interested ... who else? >> >> I'd be willing to help where I can. >> > > Yup I'm still down with this idea. We've been held up before trying to > choose the right software. Last I heard we were thinking maybe plone > already has a module? > > It's always nice to have some bit of automation, but there's no way it > can be totally automated. We could hopefully get a system that makes it > really easy to add entries though. > > Sam >> Best, >> >> Jon >> > From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 22 18:16:20 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 14:16:20 -0400 Subject: hardware solutions and other one-off In-Reply-To: <46532114.1040107@gmx.de> References: <1179341514.3439.222.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705161242n568a7749m318e28d4e4216f36@mail.gmail.com> <464CADED.3070601@redhat.com> <46532114.1040107@gmx.de> Message-ID: <1179857780.4990.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 18:57 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote: > Hi, > > I found phpmyfaq today: http://www.phpmyfaq.de/ > > Could be a usable tool for a knowledgebase ? I think Rahul's previous comment is spot-on, that anything not driven by automated, hard data is not scalable and not a good solution. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From guillermo.gomez at gmail.com Tue May 22 19:40:53 2007 From: guillermo.gomez at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Guillermo_G=F3mez?=) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:40:53 -0400 Subject: Reintroducing myself In-Reply-To: <1179833861.22038.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> <46507AFE.3080104@skynet.be> <63a901070705220126k746c64fdp889de187b087f03b@mail.gmail.com> <1179833861.22038.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <63a901070705221240p64fed6c7oc572be20c1873815@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Paul Should i first put my entrie in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue ? regards Guillermo On 5/22/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 04:26 -0400, Guillermo G?mez wrote: > > I did finish the TQSG translation (es). Im waiting for an editor for > > reviewing and publishing it. > > Hi Guillermo, > > You should be able to find someone on the "es" translation list to > review your work. Once they've done so, mark the Publish Queue page > appropriately: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue > > Then we can publish your translation. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- Ing.Guillermo Gomez S. http://fedora.gomix.org From draciron at gmail.com Tue May 22 20:00:51 2007 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:00:51 -0500 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <1179352348.15623.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705160200k77324731uc68229da4e92d8fc@mail.gmail.com> <1179352348.15623.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 5/16/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-05-16 at 11:48 -0500, Dan Smith wrote: > > I like Jonathan's idea. Pointing to the unofficial Fedora FAQ would > > be one good start. When setting up a new machine most people are going > > to want MP3 support, plugin support for the browser and many of the > > other topics covered by the unofficial FAQ. How to automount windoze > > shares, SMB configurations and how to mount NTFS partitions will be > > very important to people using mixed environments and dual boots. > > Ha! Guess I wrote my earlier thread reply too soon. Cf. "contributory > infringement." We point to FedoraForum.org already, and I'm sure plenty > of people there are willing to help corrupt systems with non-FOSS > wherever needed. FedoraForum.org has some helpful people there. Some of the FAQs are helpful but the primary focus of a "wizard" would be people new to Linux. People who'll have no idea what they are doing. Those of us that know Linux tend to already know or Google quickly. One problem with the organization of much of the information is the navigation of the information. A second problem is the lack of updates. Thus the inspiration to update the NFS through firewalls FAQ which is very obsolete as an example of how much ancient information is what people will see. I have no love of Microsoft. I do not run windoze. I have often considered porting all my mp3s to OGG. The reality is that mp3 is the current standard. Oggs are better and there are no patent issues with them but most windoze and Mac users have never even heard of an Ogg. Pngs tend to be much larger than jpgs or I feel pngs would have overtaken jpg as the standard for images. I look at things from a practical viewpoint. We cannot stand on a mountain and expect people too look way up there and say that must be a cool place to be. We have to go down there and show them how to get up that mountain. We are not going to do that by being elitist about anything. I suspect I am like most here in that when I started with Linux I still used windoze for some stuff for a few years until I converted completely to Linux. True Linux has evolved quite a bit since then but we have to deal with reality. A very common situation I've seen is the Techie in the family running Linux machines and maybe having a windoze dual boot for gaming. The non-techie in the house says "don't touch my computer" and runs windoze because that is what they know. So SMB is quite necessary, though I was in one lab where we ran SMB instead of NFS because it was faster and easier despite being a pure Nix shop. So I don't see the shouts of not supporting anything that isn't FOSS. That's just unrealistic at this point. Five or ten years from now might be a different story. The network tool might seem easy but I've been answering questions from people as young as 12 years old who have no idea what any of this means who are trying out Linux. I'm seeing large numbers of people, some even with obvious edges of technophobia giving Linux a try. I hate seeing any give up and return to windoze. On blogs and such you often see people who tried Linux and failed and you can feel the bitterness dripping in their posts. Especially when the topic of Linux for desktops comes up. My heart drops every time I see one of those. The biggest problem is ourselves really. Linux is more than mature enough to take the desktop world by storm. It is a far superior OS to any other out there in every aspect except for the number of games availible. Linux is easier to run, more secure, less expensive, could require less technical knowledge (unfortunately Linux has not taken advantage of this aspect yet) and can just plain do more on less hardware than any other OS. It is a magnatude more powerful than windoze. Our worst enemy is ourselves. The old school nix elitism. It's been done this way for x many years it should always be done this way kind of thing. That don't cut it with many people and it drives them away. That is why this idea about a wizard can be such a powerful tool for helping people adapt to Linux. It collects information in a single easy to use place for desktop Linux users, especially those new to Linux but even for vets it can be an easy list of links needed to configure a desktop on a fresh install rather than doing it peicemeal as you run into various file formats and such. > Even more important to windoze users first trying out LInux is going > > to be equivalents. Send them to VI and they'll run screaming into the > > night back to windoze. So Kedit/Gedit = notepad Openoffice = Word > > GIMP= photoshop kinds of tutorials would be a big help. So too would > > how file permissions and such work. How to set up cups is pretty > > essential. Scanners, digital cameras and such as well. Another > > crucial aspect is pointing folks toward K3b. It will make CD burning > > easy for even the most novice windoze user. Nothing comes close in the > > Linux world to K3b. Though this implies auto installing at least the > > KDE libs, technically you want to just install KDE. Folks that have > > space issues that would preclude KDE's installation are not going to > > use such a wizard anyway. That is one thing I wish Fedora would > > correct, the default install will put only Gnome on. That leaves half > > of the important apps uninstalled. A default Fedora install is not a > > very friendly install to a new Linux user. Vets can easily remove > > things they don't want, so I feel the install should default more > > toward the kitchen sink rather than the lean install that is currently > > used. > > This is a huge scattershot of topics, but I think most of these are > covered in the sketchpad/checklists of topics for our guides. Perhaps > you would like to actually contribute some content for these guides on > the wiki? It is open for community contribution; please refer to > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join for information. If > wishes were horses... :-) I've actually joined and submitted a rough. Unfortunately I'm a bit of a heretic. I started in DOS, moved to windoze and didn't discover Linux until the mid 90s. Didn't move full time to Linux until the late 90s. I find many old school nix concepts as awkward or just obsolete. For example putting everything in the home dir is insane if you ask me. It is a security problem, it makes for a zillion false alarms when you grep for something and it potentially leads to problems such as a download filling up the partition the home dir is on and the subsequent complaints by Linux when it cannot write to the home dir. So I advocate the seperation of the home dir and data dir. One dir should be for NOTHING but configuration information. The other for user data such as downloads, spreadsheets and such. I do have a rough for NFS. Been out of town most of the last 2 months so I havn't been able to finish it. It is really more of an update on older works showing how to configure NFS to work through firewalls. I still have a glitch to fix and it'll be ready. Would love to have somebody look it over. They could probably see what I'm forgetting at a glance. Had it working, then power went out and had to reboot. When I did one of the daemons went back to random port assignments. Haven't been in town long enough lately to figure out which one. I am quite happy to put my fingers to work on such projects. The whole reason I joined the documentation project was to give back to the OSS community. I do bring a very different perspective though. I try to see through the eyes of people new to Linux. I'm also going by the kinds of questions I'm seeing on various Linux lists and forums or that I get through IMs and emails. > The feedback I get from lots of first time Linux users is that they > > get lost. They have no idea what to do with their brand spanking new > > Linux installation. Some things like how to configure networking has > > to be local on the HD. Without it they cannot reach the FAQs on the > > net. > > Again, we are open to contributions in the docs. I would consider this > a possibility for including in the on-DVD "README" file, if nothing else > than telling people where to find the easy network configuration tool > already present in the default installation. Ah but our target audience isn't going to read a read me. I personally like the idea of using the default browser and opening a local page with the basics and links to other references. Simple HTML will be more than sufficient for the task. Some of it needs to be local such as network configuration. Those who know how to configure a network will for example just skip right past that. Me I find it easier to just edit the various files in a text editor. It's what I've been doing for years and I have more control over the system that way. People new to Linux will want to use the GUI however. Step by step network configuration for dummies would be a big help with some new users. The firewall configuration tool is simple and very good. Most users need only the default settings. The goal is to create a roadmap to a fully functional system in as short a time as possible presented in such a way that somebody with no technical knowledge can follow this map with little or no frustration and have a fully functional Linux system. Advanced users and functionality of course require the more traditional and more complex documentation. > Other things like pointers to the better Linux games while not > > important for business users would help generate more interest in > > Linux. A tutorial on window managers with snap shots of what the major > > ones look like, how to install them and such would also be a big help. > > What is especially important is how to configure repositories. They > > will be unable to use the Unofficial FAQ to get anything through Yum > > without first adding a repository. I know Redhat does not add this > > repository to avoid getting sued over copywrites and such but don't > > see where there'd be any harm in using a certain repository as an > > example of how to add a repository :) > > See above. Plus the software management guide, which could also use > your help. Please feel free to contribute elbow grease as desired. Point me to whatever areas need work and I'd be glad to help out. > Going a step farther and automating that process is actually a good > > idea. While Redhat couldn't support it because of various potential > > litigation it could point users to the scripts that would auto > > configure the system to play DVDs, MP3s, add a repository, grab the > > latest Firefox browser instead of the 1.5 branch that officially comes > > with Fedora but is nearly obsolete now. Plugins could then be auto > > installed. Even for Linux vets that would be a huge time saver. > > Creating a functional machine takes a good hour or two of downloading > > and installations. I usually wind up forgetting at least a couple > > plugins then when I need them I wind up having to restart my browser > > or putting it off. Novice users often get lost in the process. Get > > frustrated and it gives Linux a bad name. Fedora is also falling > > behind some distros in facilitating multi-media which is key to many > > home users. > > Feel free to write that script, publish it, and support it on your own > website. The Fedora Project and its contributors (including me, a > non-Red Hat person) are passionately devoted to free and open source > software, and we want our solutions to be supportable in the sense that > the community has the power to take them apart and build on them at will > without legal repercussions. I understand your point of view but have to disagree with you. I like you would love nothing more than to see Microsoft wiped off the face of the earth. To see all software fall under OSS. I find the current patent laws to be an obstruction to the advancement of technology. They were never written to cover free efforts. The concept of people working for free for the good of the community as a whole just never occured to the authors of the patent laws. As I said above we have to be realistic. If we want the world to eventually be that way we have to out and lead people to the water. Show them how to swim. They might come near the river but there is quite a bit of fear in the air and many people have had bad experiences with Linux because they could not find the best apps and wound up doing stupid things like attempting to burn a CD with something other than K3b. With K3b they have an interface and style that they are used too. One that's easy and reliable but there was nothing pointing them to how to do it. Ex-VB developers who might have never heard of Gambas and saw only C based languages and said "forget that!" or people terrified of command lines who could not find Yum GUI tools. Or who got trapped in dependancy hell on an RPM they downloaded. When I see a post/blog/comment by somebody or listen to somebody who tried Linux and didn't like it I try to find out why and most of the time it is purely because they were using old school and klunky apps when nice apps existed that they were completely unaware of. By the same token we cannot tell people just because you have 50 gigs of MP3s but because some idiot corporation wanted to suddenly squeeze extra money out of people that they have to convert all those mp3s to OGGs. They are going to turn around and head right back to windoze. Hell I've been using Linux for years but only about a quarter of my collection is in the Ogg format. I rip to MP3 because that's what I trade with other people, many of them widnoze users. I despise Windoze media formats but I often have to open such files. Pretending they don't exist only makes us look backwards. Give them time and they'll discover the other formats. Eventually when a critical mass of people are using Linux then we can advance the Ogg format as a standard to supplant MP3s. We are not going to convert people by limiting what they can do with their machines. Linux means the opposite, it is freedom, even if it means supporting sometimes backwards standards like Microsoft formats. Another lie that many people have bought from Microsoft is that being technically illiterate is ok. To me knowing nothing about computers is like not knowing how to change a tire. Sure you can get by like that but why? Learning a bit about computers I feel is essential. Unfortunately we have a whole generation of people who bought into that lie that we have to contend with. We can preach until we are blue in the face, but we are not going to convert many that way. Somebody who's seen a lake for the first time is going to have a much higher opinion of it when they willingly jump in rather than if they are thrown in. So lets let users adapt at a pace that suites them. > There is a learning curve no matter what we do but it can be made a > > whole lot less steep with Jonathan's idea and the script I am > > proposing. > > Again, I would urge you to step up and get involved beyond simply > listing areas where you feel there are weaknesses. If you have time, we > have a number of documents in draft form that are waiting for energetic > folks to improve. Thanks for your time and consideration, and we look > forward to hearing back from you. Point me to them and I'd be glad to help as I am able. I'd also be quite happy to help. -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From draciron at gmail.com Tue May 22 20:04:28 2007 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 15:04:28 -0500 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <1179402280.4900.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <1179351360.15623.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1179354348.3068.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <464C11D3.5040005@skynet.be> <1179402280.4900.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: If we use the default browser and use clean HTML who cares what browser they install as long as at least one is installed and the window manager has some browser configured to handle HTML files. For the most part these will be new users who'll accept a default install anyway which will put Firefox (side note, why is 1.5 still the default for Firefox?) on the machine. On 5/17/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-05-17 at 10:26 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Matthias Clasen schreef: > > > On Wed, 2007-05-16 at 17:36 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > >> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 17:18 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > >>> On Tue, 2007-05-15 at 21:17 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > >>>> Hi all, > > >>>> > > >>>> I don't know if this is off topic, or even just wishful thinking, > but > > >>>> has any sort of a welcome wizard been considered? > > >>>> > > >>>> GNU/Linux (and Fedora) is different to what a lot of new users will > > >>>> have been used to, and some sort of a welcome wizard which just > points > > >>>> them in the right direction for common items, i.e. software > installer > > >>>> etc might be useful. > > >>>> > > >>>> I have no idea if other people think this would be worthwhile, or > how > > >>>> you might go about creating it! Thoughts? > > >>> You're thinking of a local/fat application? Something that is > kicked > > >>> off by the completion of firstboot? > > >> In other words, a firstboot module. These can be fairly rich in > > >> content. > > >> > > > > > > Firstboot is NOT a good solution for this. > > > > > > 1) it runs outside a regular session, so the user cannot actually see > > > what you explain to him > > > > > > 2) only the first user to start the machine after installation gets to > > > see it > > > > > > 3) you cannot easily revisit it at a later time > > > > > > > > > What you want is a firstlogin that runs after the first login of every > > > new user. > > > > > > > Yeah, firstboot wouldn't scale enough, to let new users come to an > > existing system and learn about it. > > > > So something like "About Fedora" turned into an interactive, "this is > > how you do foo, bar"-type of program? More like a small tour of the > > system, which ends with a list of links to the other guides we've got > > lying around here. > > > > Could be doable with firefox as Karsten mentioned earlier. > > Again, firefox is not a good place for this. Some users will never see > it if they install epiphany or konqueror instead. I understand the > problems with firstboot now, but this kind of function should be an > independent program of some sort. Which means if anyone wants it, they > will have to code it. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From verduin at ameritech.net Tue May 22 21:29:57 2007 From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 17:29:57 -0400 Subject: REQUEST: specific narrow focus list for my participation In-Reply-To: <1179744134.3439.563.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1178722768.17964.38.camel@tango.gfvhome.org> <1179744134.3439.563.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1179869397.20970.29.camel@tango.gfvhome.org> Thanks for the kind reply Karsten. On Mon, 2007-05-21 at 03:42 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 14:59 +0000, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote: > > The way you describe it, it sounds more like a bug. Is there any reason > not to file a bug report on it? Yes - incomplete understanding that my research has not yet resolved. It is equally (more?) likely I missed a step in configuration as it is there is a bug, and I am facing a topic that seems to be very little published. Admittedly I have not read the appropriate RFCs. Please appreciate my use of the alias feature is based on verbal (plus email) exchange with a network pro using the same feature on another linux variety without error in his install - and he is stumped. My real problem is lack of reading material to check the details of my configuration. So yes I hesitate to call this error a bug until I can read this material - and it seems as though the admin doc is the place I *should* find it? I don't see bugzilla as an aid to education... > > Search for a similar report: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/query.cgi?format=simple > > And/or file a report on the 'net-tools' package that > provides /sbin/ifconfig: Did the search - could not get a hit. > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi?product=Fedora%20Core > > If it does turn out to need a mention in the documentation, then it > would belong here somewhere: Searched the text - could not get a hit again. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide > > thx - Karsten I am adding a search for the RFCs that apply as well as scouring Linux doc project as well as RedHat doc until I can qualify my configuration. After that I'll pull together what I can and suggest added material for the admin guide you point out. Thanks again for your reply - chat later... > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list Warmest regards from here, George From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 22 22:14:58 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 18:14:58 -0400 Subject: Reintroducing myself In-Reply-To: <63a901070705221240p64fed6c7oc572be20c1873815@mail.gmail.com> References: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> <46507AFE.3080104@skynet.be> <63a901070705220126k746c64fdp889de187b087f03b@mail.gmail.com> <1179833861.22038.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <63a901070705221240p64fed6c7oc572be20c1873815@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1179872098.4990.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 15:40 -0400, Guillermo G?mez wrote: > Thanks Paul > > Should i first put my entrie in > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue You can certainly put it there right away if you like. Then you could get a second translator to check the work and that person can enter his or her name after finishing. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From notting at redhat.com Wed May 23 01:08:43 2007 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Tue, 22 May 2007 21:08:43 -0400 Subject: Vote for the (probable) name of Fedora 7! Message-ID: <20070523010843.GA28513@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> The board has sent a list of suggested names for Fedora 7 to our legal department, and they have responded with the names that have passed preliminary legal approval. Please vote for your favorite choice at: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/voting/vote.cgi The choices are 'Lee', 'Sherman', 'Nothing', 'Cylon', 'Moonshine', 'Siegfried'. You will need to log in with your Fedora account system user/password. Voting will be open until 2007-05-25 00:00:00 UTC. Thanks to Toshio Kuratomi for getting this set up. We apologize for the short voting timeframe - final legal approval can take up to five days, and we'd really like to avoid slipping solely for the name of the release. If there end up being legal issues with the name selected, the Board will decide on the name. (Who knows, could end up being Zod 2: Electric Zod-a-loo). Bill From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed May 23 05:11:24 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 08:11:24 +0300 Subject: Alexander Bub. SelfIntroduction + GPG In-Reply-To: <465304AD.000004.19801@webmail10.yandex.ru> References: <465304AD.000004.19801@webmail10.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705222211o2cedd7caub2fe50e60911ee18@mail.gmail.com> On 5/22/07, apocalypse-now wrote: > Alexander Bub > > My name's Alexander Bub. I am from > Rubtsovsk, Altai region, Russian Federation. I work as the teacher of computer subjects at Rubtsovsk technical school for machinebuilding ( databases, operating systems, administration of local networks) and system integrator ( linux & windows heterogenious networks interoperability). > Welcome to the Fedora Docs Project, Alexander! > The goal of my participation in the project is to help people in my country interested in Fedora OS to get the latest and the most actual information on Fedora linux achievements and the deployment of Fedora OS as the main OS on boxes in my technical school and other institutions country-wide. (Fedora OS is the only worthy alternative I see at my place opposing to the proprietary and pricey Windows XP) > You've come to the right place. > I have graduated from one of our local universities and majored in English language. I am a qualified technical writer, thus, I think my skills and experience can help a lot in achievement of my goals. > Yes, your English is excellent. > I am an experienced linux user and system administrator. > > Working at tech school gives me a good opportunity to test > Fedora OSes at my computer labs and get my students' opinions on problems we sometimes face when using this operating system. > > I think my own Fedora experience and interest to this OS would be of certain help to the Fedora community in my country. > I'm sure you language and technical skills will be of help to your country and the global community of Fedora users. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From ml at deadbabylon.de Wed May 23 08:37:56 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 10:37:56 +0200 Subject: Notes about some issues in KDE-LiveCD for Web-bases Relnotes? In-Reply-To: <1179798696.22038.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070522010138.737f154b@localhost.localdomain> <1179798696.22038.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20070523103756.78f6448a@localhost.localdomain> Am Mon, 21 May 2007 21:51:36 -0400 schrieb "Paul W. Frields" : > On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 01:01 +0200, Sebastian Vahl wrote: > > Hi. > > > > I'm not familiar with your process of the web-based release notes. > > But I've written down some notes about bugs or issues with the > > KDE-LiveCD (section "Release Notes"): > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SebastianVahl/Notes > > > > Of course they must be polished and my english is quite bad. And I'm > > also not shure if they are worth to mentioned? This is up to you. > > I don't see why not. Sebastian, hope it's OK with you, I went ahead > and edited this section right on your page. Thanks. It sounds (and looks) better now. So it's ok to edit it, of course. :) > Whenever you're ready > you can put it in the KDE pages where appropriate. They are mostly related to the live cd, so this page might be the best choice: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Live But I'm not sure about that. Sebastian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 24 08:34:20 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 01:34:20 -0700 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705160200k77324731uc68229da4e92d8fc@mail.gmail.com> <1179352348.15623.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1179995660.3439.784.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 15:00 -0500, Dan Smith wrote: > > > On 5/16/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Feel free to write that script, publish it, and support it on > your own > website. The Fedora Project and its contributors (including > me, a > non-Red Hat person) are passionately devoted to free and open > source > software, and we want our solutions to be supportable in the > sense that > the community has the power to take them apart and build on > them at will > without legal repercussions. > > I understand your point of view but have to disagree with you. [snip] > Linux means the opposite, it is freedom, even if it means supporting > sometimes backwards standards like Microsoft formats. You are not saying anything that hasn't been discussed to death on many, many Fedora mailing lists. Here is the bottom line: 1. Fedora does not ship encumbered stuff, nor do we commit infringement by pointing to be how to illegally do something; 2. Fedora folks are always looking for changes in the landscape that allow us to do something different, in a legal and safe way; 3. One reason we do this is to not bite our US-based friends, who are subject to things such as the DMCA; 4. A main reason we do this is because true software freedom is more important than illusory freedom; 5. Fedora Documentation works on free and open content that is related directly to the Fedora distribution of Linux; we only focus on what is "in Fedora." So, if we could figure out a *legal and unencumbered* way to, for example, put up a Website that would upload, convert, and return audio files (mp32ogg.org), maybe that could help. Some idea like that. What is not going to happen anytime soon, aiui, is a Fedora distributed wizard/client that sits on the desktop and helps people find the way to play their MP3 files. No matter how many impassioned arguments are made. The laws are the laws until they are changed or expire. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From josemanimala at gmail.com Thu May 24 08:36:38 2007 From: josemanimala at gmail.com (jose manimala) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:06:38 +0530 Subject: an intro Message-ID: <53a863600705240136v324d07c4ha96837ada640f90@mail.gmail.com> Hey, i am jose. i would like to help in writing documents for the fedora project. i am a server administrator and have good knowledge of configuring servers. Wanted to write a few documents for setting up a server on FC6. Hope i can be of help. i can also help with editing drafts. Jose From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 24 08:41:00 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 01:41:00 -0700 Subject: tasks Message-ID: <1179996060.3439.788.camel@erato.phig.org> We need to populate this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks An important goal of that page is to be where we send new contributors looking for something to take on. To that end, you'll notice that unassigned tasks have a column for "Mentor". This person would help a new contributor to be successful with the task. If you know of any task that needs doing, make sure it gets on that list. If it requires many sub-tasks that can be modularized, consider creating a sub-space for it, such as, DocsProject/Tasks/FooGuide. In that sub-space, list out all the detailed tasks. This helps to organize by project, and keep the DP/Tasks from getting too crowded. When we have something more to look at/work from there, we can link the page in directly from DocsProject/Join and DocsProject itself. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 24 08:42:55 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 01:42:55 -0700 Subject: an intro In-Reply-To: <53a863600705240136v324d07c4ha96837ada640f90@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600705240136v324d07c4ha96837ada640f90@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1179996175.3439.791.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-05-24 at 14:06 +0530, jose manimala wrote: > Hey, > i am jose. i would like to help in writing documents for the > fedora project. i am a server administrator and have good knowledge of > configuring servers. Wanted to write a few documents for setting up a > server on FC6. Hope i can be of help. i can also help with editing > drafts. Excellent, Jose, welcome. After you have started here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join ... there will hopefully soon be useful tasks to start on here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks Many folks have been busy with doing stuff for the Fedora 7 release, but the time has come for us to get better at enabling new folks to "just get started." - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From josemanimala at gmail.com Thu May 24 08:48:19 2007 From: josemanimala at gmail.com (jose manimala) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:18:19 +0530 Subject: an intro In-Reply-To: <1179996175.3439.791.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <53a863600705240136v324d07c4ha96837ada640f90@mail.gmail.com> <1179996175.3439.791.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <53a863600705240148q35e80e74p24ced10d6593d0fe@mail.gmail.com> hey, i need some help with getting started!! 1. how do i get access to docwritersgroup? 2. is there any group in the fedora account system i need to add myself to. thanks jose From josemanimala at gmail.com Thu May 24 09:20:19 2007 From: josemanimala at gmail.com (jose manimala) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 14:50:19 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Jose M Manimala Message-ID: <53a863600705240220w5da07767t188db9a31dd99245@mail.gmail.com> I just saw the pattern for the introduction mail. Jose M Manimala Cochin, India student Rajagiri school of information and technology Goals: Write a guide to configure a server for apache/tomcat. internet related documents. Historical Qualifications: I write on my blog. System admin level computer skills. i am a cousellor for jesus youth and help people in their troubles. know almost all Scripting languages. I can help the project by writing about things i know. Any system if i am given a day to understand it will have a guide by the end of the next day. GPG Key: pub 1024D/98FF52D2 2007/05/22 Jose M Manimala (Not for the faint hearted!!) Key fingerprint = 1C7A 2E7C FC45 0F79 1CFC 7368 0494 FB95 98FF 52D2 Jose M Manimala From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 24 09:47:36 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 02:47:36 -0700 Subject: an intro In-Reply-To: <53a863600705240148q35e80e74p24ced10d6593d0fe@mail.gmail.com> References: <53a863600705240136v324d07c4ha96837ada640f90@mail.gmail.com> <1179996175.3439.791.camel@erato.phig.org> <53a863600705240148q35e80e74p24ced10d6593d0fe@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1180000056.3439.815.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-05-24 at 14:18 +0530, jose manimala wrote: > hey, > i need some help with getting started!! > 1. how do i get access to docwritersgroup? That group doesn't do much right now except be able to edit documents that are *published* at fp.org/wiki/Docs. The Docs/Drafts namespace is open to all registered users, and that is the one you want to start in. > 2. is there any group in the fedora account system i need to add > myself to. cvsdocs should do it. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ml at deadbabylon.de Thu May 24 22:15:29 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 00:15:29 +0200 Subject: Needed some polish of a howto of the creation of a localized KDE-LiveCD Message-ID: <20070525001529.336b3ceb@localhost.localdomain> Hi. some time ago I've written some note about the needed steps of the creation of a localzide KDE-LiveCD: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD/LocalizedVersions Maybe this is worth to be included in the *docs* part of fp.o. But before this it should be polished a little bit. Feel free to edit the page directly. And I'm also happy for some comments (or questions). Sebastian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri May 25 03:26:33 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 24 May 2007 20:26:33 -0700 Subject: Alexander Bub. SelfIntroduction + GPG In-Reply-To: <465304AD.000004.19801@webmail10.yandex.ru> References: <465304AD.000004.19801@webmail10.yandex.ru> Message-ID: <1180063593.3439.905.camel@erato.phig.org> Alexander, welcome. Something you wrote caught my attention: On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 18:56 +0400, apocalypse-now wrote: > The goal of my participation in the project is to help people in my > country interested in Fedora OS to get the latest and the most actual > information on Fedora linux achievements and the deployment of Fedora > OS as the main OS on boxes in my technical school and other > institutions country-wide. Do you have some specific ideas as to what people need for documentation? Do you think Fedora Docs is going in the right direction to fill that need? Thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 25 11:48:50 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 07:48:50 -0400 Subject: Needed some polish of a howto of the creation of a localized KDE-LiveCD In-Reply-To: <20070525001529.336b3ceb@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070525001529.336b3ceb@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1180093730.5412.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 00:15 +0200, Sebastian Vahl wrote: > Hi. > some time ago I've written some note about the needed steps of the > creation of a localzide KDE-LiveCD: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD/LocalizedVersions > > Maybe this is worth to be included in the *docs* part of fp.o. But > before this it should be polished a little bit. > > Feel free to edit the page directly. And I'm also happy for some > comments (or questions). This would be a great time for an interested (lurking) community member to step in and offer to edit for style. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide Then we could put this on the main Docs page. I suspect the tools in this area are fairly fluid and moving this to CVS might be counterproductive. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri May 25 20:58:31 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:31 -0700 Subject: Needed some polish of a howto of the creation of a localized KDE-LiveCD In-Reply-To: <20070525001529.336b3ceb@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070525001529.336b3ceb@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1180126711.3439.959.camel@erato.phig.org> A general question to all: Do we need to champion a Fedora Live-CD Guide? This content would fit in there. Where is Live CD content? I see this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/NetworkHowTo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/LiveCDHowTo Do we want to put together a formal document from that content? Seems pretty straightforward. I can add it to our DP/Tasks, if we should. On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 00:15 +0200, Sebastian Vahl wrote: > Hi. > some time ago I've written some note about the needed steps of the > creation of a localzide KDE-LiveCD: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureFedoraKDE/KDELiveCD/LocalizedVersions > > Maybe this is worth to be included in the *docs* part of fp.o. But > before this it should be polished a little bit. > > Feel free to edit the page directly. And I'm also happy for some > comments (or questions). > > Sebastian > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 25 21:48:22 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 17:48:22 -0400 Subject: Needed some polish of a howto of the creation of a localized KDE-LiveCD In-Reply-To: <1180126711.3439.959.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20070525001529.336b3ceb@localhost.localdomain> <1180126711.3439.959.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1180129702.4636.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 13:58 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > A general question to all: > > Do we need to champion a Fedora Live-CD Guide? *ABSOLUTELY!* > This content would fit in there. > > Where is Live CD content? I see this: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/NetworkHowTo > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/LiveCDHowTo > > Do we want to put together a formal document from that content? Seems > pretty straightforward. > > I can add it to our DP/Tasks, if we should. This is going to be one of the #1 things people will want quickly after F7 release. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri May 25 23:06:25 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 16:06:25 -0700 Subject: Needed some polish of a howto of the creation of a localized KDE-LiveCD In-Reply-To: <1180129702.4636.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070525001529.336b3ceb@localhost.localdomain> <1180126711.3439.959.camel@erato.phig.org> <1180129702.4636.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1180134385.3439.977.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 17:48 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2007-05-25 at 13:58 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > A general question to all: > > > > Do we need to champion a Fedora Live-CD Guide? > > *ABSOLUTELY!* I'll add it to DP/Tasks. More than one person to work on this is probably a good idea. :) > > > This content would fit in there. > > > > Where is Live CD content? I see this: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/NetworkHowTo > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/LiveCDHowTo > > > > Do we want to put together a formal document from that content? Seems > > pretty straightforward. > > > > I can add it to our DP/Tasks, if we should. > > This is going to be one of the #1 things people will want quickly after > F7 release. Yeah, and I'm getting a bit tired of other people beating us to the punch (producing content that could be canonical from Fedora). Sebastian -- are you interested in contributing and maintaining the KDE Live-CD content for a Fedora Live CD Guide? Anyone else? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri May 25 23:23:06 2007 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 19:23:06 -0400 Subject: [Bug 241438] New: Testing bug, ignore this. Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug report. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=241438 Summary: Testing bug, ignore this. Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: medium Component: docs-requests AssignedTo: stickster at gmail.com ReportedBy: stickster at gmail.com QAContact: stickster at gmail.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com This bug is for testing a feed and should go away shortly. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From ml at deadbabylon.de Fri May 25 23:27:50 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 01:27:50 +0200 Subject: Needed some polish of a howto of the creation of a localized KDE-LiveCD In-Reply-To: <1180134385.3439.977.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20070525001529.336b3ceb@localhost.localdomain> <1180126711.3439.959.camel@erato.phig.org> <1180129702.4636.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1180134385.3439.977.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20070526012750.2ab6a796@localhost.localdomain> Am Fri, 25 May 2007 16:06:25 -0700 schrieb Karsten Wade : > > > This content would fit in there. > > > > > > Where is Live CD content? I see this: > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/NetworkHowTo > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/LiveCDHowTo > > > > > > > Do we want to put together a formal document from that content? > > > Seems pretty straightforward. > > > > > > I can add it to our DP/Tasks, if we should. > > > > This is going to be one of the #1 things people will want quickly > > after F7 release. > > Yeah, and I'm getting a bit tired of other people beating us to the > punch (producing content that could be canonical from Fedora). As an addition to that there IMHO should be also a guide for revisor. This provides a nice click&run interface for creating livecds: http://revisor.fedoraunity.org/development/feature-list It should be in the repo soon but I haven't used it yet. > Sebastian -- are you interested in contributing and maintaining the > KDE Live-CD content for a Fedora Live CD Guide? Sure. But ATM I'm not sure what other content could be fit. (And someone must polish my writings..) Sebastian -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri May 25 23:49:26 2007 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 19:49:26 -0400 Subject: [Bug 241438] Testing bug, ignore this. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <200705252349.l4PNnQRv030395@bugzilla.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug report. Summary: Testing bug, ignore this. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=241438 stickster at gmail.com changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |CLOSED Resolution| |NOTABUG ------- Additional Comments From stickster at gmail.com 2007-05-25 19:49 EST ------- Removing bug for more testing. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug, or are watching someone who is. From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 25 23:53:44 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 25 May 2007 19:53:44 -0400 Subject: Needed some polish of a howto of the creation of a localized KDE-LiveCD In-Reply-To: <20070526012750.2ab6a796@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070525001529.336b3ceb@localhost.localdomain> <1180126711.3439.959.camel@erato.phig.org> <1180129702.4636.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1180134385.3439.977.camel@erato.phig.org> <20070526012750.2ab6a796@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1180137224.8680.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-05-26 at 01:27 +0200, Sebastian Vahl wrote: > Am Fri, 25 May 2007 16:06:25 -0700 > schrieb Karsten Wade : > > > > > This content would fit in there. > > > > > > > > Where is Live CD content? I see this: > > > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/NetworkHowTo > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/LiveCDHowTo > > > > > > > > > > Do we want to put together a formal document from that content? > > > > Seems pretty straightforward. > > > > > > > > I can add it to our DP/Tasks, if we should. > > > > > > This is going to be one of the #1 things people will want quickly > > > after F7 release. > > > > Yeah, and I'm getting a bit tired of other people beating us to the > > punch (producing content that could be canonical from Fedora). > > As an addition to that there IMHO should be also a guide for revisor. > This provides a nice click&run interface for creating livecds: > http://revisor.fedoraunity.org/development/feature-list > > It should be in the repo soon but I haven't used it yet. See below --- > > Sebastian -- are you interested in contributing and maintaining the > > KDE Live-CD content for a Fedora Live CD Guide? > > Sure. But ATM I'm not sure what other content could be fit. (And > someone must polish my writings..) We'll take care of that, don't worry. And you beat me to the punch with the above. This should definitely include the idea of spinning your own using Revisor. I think having this be a more general document for making Fedora Live CD's is a good idea, and we can use as the primary example throughout the document: creating a KDE Live CD. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat May 26 09:42:33 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 12:42:33 +0300 Subject: Needed some polish of a howto of the creation of a localized KDE-LiveCD In-Reply-To: <1180137224.8680.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20070525001529.336b3ceb@localhost.localdomain> <1180126711.3439.959.camel@erato.phig.org> <1180129702.4636.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1180134385.3439.977.camel@erato.phig.org> <20070526012750.2ab6a796@localhost.localdomain> <1180137224.8680.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705260242m2b8f0579m5a98c791b5ce4e2d@mail.gmail.com> You guys must do mind reading in your spare time. You may have noticed that I volunteered to keep the web page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD/LiveCDHowTo updated. It would be great to formalize the process now that things are being finalized for the Fedora 7 release. I also received quite a bit of feedback, in the form of comments and even other blog posts, on my blog concerning my attempts to recruit KDE and Xfce writers See http://jmbuser.livejournal.com/2965.html. (BTW, this is the first time I got any comments on a blog entry.) One very instructive comment suggested a User Guide for each Live CD, which I agree is a very good idea. I would like to keep the wiki version going to capture new material from contributors. As has been previously discussed. there are certain apps in common, such as OpenOffice.org and Mozilla Firefox. There are also apps which are associated with particular desktop managers, such as GNOME, KDE and Xfce. One solution appropriate to the wiki version is to use includes, similar to how we use them now to produce a printable version. Using includes, the "common apps" section would be combined with the appropriate "desktop manager apps" section. For example, the "common apps" section would be included first, then the "GNOME apps" section, resulting in a GNOME version of the FUG. The GNOME FUG would become the basis for the GNOME Live CD Guide, which may include other sections. As far as customs respins, the basic sections could be combined as needed to produce the custom doc. For example, if no OpenOffice apps are included, drop the OOo section by not "include"-ing it. BTW, no matter what approach we adopt, I'm afraid it's impossible to avoid mentioning what windows manager in use. This definitely deserves further discussion in the FDSco meeting on 27 May. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From kwade at redhat.com Sat May 26 17:09:20 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 10:09:20 -0700 Subject: meeting 26 May Message-ID: <1180199360.3439.1010.camel@erato.phig.org> The agenda is updated, maybe more to come? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda Although it's last on the list, the most important thing I think we are doing is the task list. We need to: * Get it updated with *all* tasks * Find a way to present it better than a HUGE AND SCARY TABLLLLLLEEE!! * Order by difficulty (maybe separate tables by complexity? by task (guide, tool, etc.)? * Consider what we want to get busy with between releases, with our scant breathing room http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks It is a holiday weekend in the US, so don't expect to see the US-based folks. :) I'll be there, though, since my major plan on any Sunday morning at 1600 UTC is to listen to Car Talk (http://cartalk.com/). :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Sat May 26 17:10:58 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 18:10:58 +0100 Subject: meeting 26 May In-Reply-To: <1180199360.3439.1010.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1180199360.3439.1010.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705261010p2057da97na0e33dc0c28f0a9e@mail.gmail.com> Isn't it the 26th today!?!? On 26/05/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > The agenda is updated, maybe more to come? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda > > Although it's last on the list, the most important thing I think we are > doing is the task list. > > We need to: > > * Get it updated with *all* tasks > * Find a way to present it better than a HUGE AND SCARY TABLLLLLLEEE!! > * Order by difficulty (maybe separate tables by complexity? by task > (guide, tool, etc.)? > * Consider what we want to get busy with between releases, with our > scant breathing room > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks > > It is a holiday weekend in the US, so don't expect to see the US-based > folks. :) I'll be there, though, since my major plan on any Sunday > morning at 1600 UTC is to listen to Car Talk (http://cartalk.com/). :) > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat May 26 18:30:53 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 21:30:53 +0300 Subject: meeting 26 May In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705261010p2057da97na0e33dc0c28f0a9e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1180199360.3439.1010.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705261010p2057da97na0e33dc0c28f0a9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705261130k723b9574i5dbaccafc70c5bca@mail.gmail.com> On 5/26/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Isn't it the 26th today!?!? > Yes, but the meeting is tomorrow, 27 May. :-) I will definitely be attending the meeting. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 27 01:26:14 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 26 May 2007 18:26:14 -0700 Subject: meeting 27 May In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705261010p2057da97na0e33dc0c28f0a9e@mail.gmail.com> References: <1180199360.3439.1010.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705261010p2057da97na0e33dc0c28f0a9e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1180229174.3439.1059.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2007-05-26 at 18:10 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Isn't it the 26th today!?!? Fixed in $SUBJECT. :) -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 28 07:43:58 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 00:43:58 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-27 IRC log Message-ID: <1180338238.3439.1144.camel@erato.phig.org> HTML version available at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20070527 09:07 < quaid> 09:07 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda 09:07 < quaid> good morning (again) all 09:08 < megacoder> hello 09:08 * couf does a gang-wave 09:08 < McGiwer> howdy 09:08 < McGiwer> :) 09:08 < quaid> I'll do the log/summary again today; it's been useful for me 09:09 < quaid> when we get to the tasks list, we'll pick one of us to do the editing for the group 09:09 < couf> cool :-) 09:09 < McGiwer> ok! :> 09:09 < jmbuser> +1 09:09 < quaid> jmbuser: for the record before we get started, sorry Luis was all mean to you this week, although I *think* it wasn't really about you :) 09:09 < quaid> I've been trying to figure out a reply ... and not sure if there is 09:10 < jmbuser> quaid: Silence is golden :-) 09:10 < quaid> jmbuser: just remember, he is about to become a lawyer, so he'll be getting his perdition on Earth without any help from us 09:10 < quaid> right! 09:10 < quaid> moving right along ... 09:10 < jmbuser> jmbuser: Lawyers are people, too. 09:11 < quaid> worthy of pity 09:11 < quaid> capable of sin 09:11 < jmbuser> nuff said 09:11 < megacoder> jmbuser, that _is_ newsworthy! 09:11 < quaid> so, to the agenda ... 09:12 < quaid> paul, help me out ... i really want to do a final read through of the IG but haven't found time, are we "too late"? 09:15 < couf> quaid: he might not be around due to wife's birthday 09:16 < quaid> d'oh! 09:16 < quaid> sorry, i forgot that 09:16 * quaid stupidly waiting for no respoonse 09:17 < megacoder> nak 09:17 < quaid> I guess he put his answers in the Agenda then 09:17 < couf> yeah, it mentions "final draft" so you'll still have time to read through, I guess 09:17 < quaid> ... I'll find out about that later, see what the l10n status is 09:18 < quaid> ok, next 09:18 < quaid> jmbuser: do you want to define a final production schedule for the UG? 09:19 < quaid> not something set in stone, just something to work against 09:19 < jmbuser> quaid: Sure 09:19 < quaid> you could make a subpage DP/Schedule/UserGuide, for example 09:20 < jmbuser> quaid: ok - one big deadline or phases? 09:21 < quaid> well, there have to be some phases 09:21 < quaid> finished in wiki, converted to XML, finish that draft, then publish and drop for trans 09:21 < quaid> jmbuser: but any more granular than that, it's up to you all 09:22 < quaid> ok, and I think we need the same thing for the AG 09:22 < quaid> but we need to take it off the regular agenda, since we are pushing it out a bit to land between releases 09:22 < jmbuser> quaid: ok, any thoughts on a realistic date for "finished in wiki"? 09:23 < quaid> ... since we don't have a team formalized around it, per se ... 09:23 < couf> jmbuser: within 2-3 weeks? 09:23 < couf> quaid: +1 09:23 < quaid> yeah, try two weeks 09:23 * stickster drops in for a sec 09:23 < quaid> here's the thing ... we want to make it better than before, resolve as much of the bad stuff as we can 09:23 < stickster> IG copy is available at my page fp.o/PaulWFrields/Drafs 09:24 < quaid> so I might argue for a feature-based release of the UG v. a time-based release 09:24 < quaid> however! 09:24 < stickster> I resolved many bugs with it, but Rawhide has been difficult to test with recently 09:24 < jmbuser> couf: I do end-of-month reporting in my day job...and it's end of the month, unfortunately 09:24 < stickster> It is back today 09:24 < quaid> we don't want the kitten to die .. 09:24 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 09:24 < quaid> so, I reckon we set an artificial deadline 09:24 < stickster> re IG: didn't make any special notice to l10n but some teams are keeping up, notably "pt" 09:24 < quaid> and see how much we can do in that timeframe, then call if we want to stop or continue 09:25 < quaid> stickster: ok 09:25 * stickster ducks out again, sorry to intersperse comments 09:25 < quaid> stickster: I'll make a point to read through ASAPso we can put it to bed 09:25 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.24.83] has joined #fedora-docs 09:25 * quaid repeats for jmbuser 09:25 < quaid> we don't want the kitten to die .. 09:25 < quaid> so, I reckon we set an artificial deadline 09:25 < quaid> and see how much we can do in that timeframe, then call if we want to stop or continue 09:25 < couf> jmbuser: no problem, just an idea :-) 09:25 < quaid> jmbuser: so, a "time based release" that is influenced by how we feel the features are close to complete 09:25 * couf needs to drop for some minutes 09:26 < quaid> so, three weeks to give you the week you need here for $DAYJOB 09:26 < jmbuser> quaid: Sounds good 09:26 < quaid> I intend to do the Heavy Editing Hammer of Thor part, and I'll need a few more weeks to be able to do that anyway :) 09:26 < quaid> ok, then 09:27 < quaid> the relnotes are good 09:27 < quaid> all GOLD and stuff 09:27 < quaid> and looks like we'll have some zero-day updates 09:27 < quaid> I presume that means we'll update the package as well as push live to the Web 09:27 < quaid> now ... 09:27 < quaid> there is the Web-only update 09:27 < jmbuser> I would like to do the common apps/desktop-specific apps approach, allowing for "include" magic to create a GNOME and KDE Live Cd edition 09:28 -!- EvilBob [n=Robert at fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 09:28 < jmbuser> jmbuser (to wrap up the topic of FUG) 09:28 < quaid> I think we're happy with that approach (?) 09:28 < quaid> yes? 09:29 < quaid> i.e., if you choose a KDE install, it's going to install different defaults for certain things, and that is what we are documenting. 09:29 < jmbuser> quaid: Capture updates in the wiki first? 09:29 < quaid> jmbuser: for the relnotes? 09:29 < quaid> yeah, that was what I was pondering here 09:29 < quaid> yes, we need to i) diff the Wiki for the updates, ii) update the XML,and iii) publish from that 09:31 < McGiwer> hm 09:31 < McGiwer> is the final iso spin already done? 09:31 < McGiwer> for F7 release? 09:32 < quaid> yes 09:32 < McGiwer> theoretically it should be 09:32 < McGiwer> but from practice 09:32 < McGiwer> ... ;) 09:33 < McGiwer> ok 09:33 < quaid> ready to move on to tasks? 09:33 < McGiwer> yeah 09:33 < quaid> anything more on stuff to publish for F7? 09:34 * quaid waits a few seconds ... 09:34 < McGiwer> i think i'll translate the relnotes to Polish 09:34 < McGiwer> to be ready for the final release 09:34 < McGiwer> but only for web version 09:34 < McGiwer> as the iso spin is already done :) 09:35 < McGiwer> eof 09:35 < quaid> right 09:35 < quaid> they can go into an update of fedora-release-notes 09:35 < quaid> and people who make Live CD spins of the updated packages will get the Polish translation 09:36 < McGiwer> hmm, indeed 09:36 < McGiwer> good idea :) 09:36 < McGiwer> thx 09:36 < McGiwer> so ok, i think we can go on 09:36 < McGiwer> with the agenda 09:37 * couf comes back 09:38 < couf> quaid: one thing, should we add a relnotes link on the static pages? 09:39 < quaid> ah, good question ... 09:39 < couf> meaning, the static homepage that is (not docs) 09:39 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/_/ 09:39 < quaid> that is where the F-7 changes are being worked out 09:39 < quaid> where would we want to put a link? under TOOLS? 09:40 < McGiwer> hm 09:40 < McGiwer> could be 09:40 * megacoder doesn't think folk should need to drill for that 09:41 < couf> yeah tools or maybe on the same level as the "Get it now"-links 09:41 < quaid> "Release Notes" 09:41 < glezos> btw, great work with the re-engineering of the homepage (i'm sure quaid had something to do with it too) 09:42 < megacoder> "get it now" +1 09:42 < glezos> I have to go guys, if there is something I am needed, ask away, otherwise I'll respond to the list 09:42 < McGiwer> hmm, Get it now would be better 09:42 < McGiwer> than tools, i think 09:42 < McGiwer> ;] 09:43 < McGiwer> so +1 for "Get it now" 09:44 < quaid> glezos: yo, good to see you around; I helped steer the monkeys, ricky zhou and mizmo did all the CSS lifting for sure 09:44 < quaid> I'll try Get it now and we'll see how it looks 09:45 < quaid> well, that is not the same thing as Get it now, though 09:45 < quaid> we'll keep looking 09:45 < quaid> moving along to the Tasks List ... 09:45 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks 09:46 < quaid> so, that is a bug, ugly beast 09:46 < quaid> s/bug/big/ 09:46 -!- glezos [n=d at fedora/glezos] has quit ["runnin runnin runnin..."] 09:47 < couf> who's gonna update it? 09:47 < quaid> heh 09:47 < quaid> I'm going to keep working on this stuff after we close, so unless anyone else is hanging around ... 09:48 < quaid> I'll just go ahead and do the edit this week 09:48 < quaid> s/edit/edit and update/ 09:48 < quaid> so, ideas to make it work better ... 09:48 < McGiwer> do u need help? 09:48 < quaid> McGiwer: yes, in that we all need to talk about what changes to make to it 09:49 < couf> quaid: any way, we can do something like happend with the */Join stuff 09:49 < quaid> make sub-pages? 09:50 < McGiwer> hmm 09:50 < couf> probably yeah, and keep the main tasklist very small (KISS) 09:50 < quaid> like .... 09:50 < couf> as in, not scaring away people 09:50 < McGiwer> we could create some main points 09:50 < quaid> DP/Tasks/Easy ? 09:50 < jmbuser> Prioritize 09:50 * stickster stops in for 60 sec 09:50 < McGiwer> and then connect to the main points some sub-tasks 09:50 < McGiwer> :> 09:50 < stickster> quaid: -1 09:51 < couf> ow yeah, that's a different approach, may be better 09:51 < stickster> quaid: DP/Tasks/Difficult 09:51 < quaid> jmbuser: but we can't leave it as one big list, though 09:51 < stickster> bury the things for experts, not the other way 'round 09:51 < quaid> right 09:51 < couf> stickster: +1 09:51 < jmbuser> quaid: Agreed 09:51 < quaid> well, not buried as much .. 09:51 < quaid> ok, so then how about 09:51 -!- [splinux] [n=splinux at fedora/splinux] has joined #fedora-docs 09:51 < quaid> we divide by difficulty, then use Include() to pull in the /Easy tasks to be front-and-center? 09:52 < quaid> right below a Table of Contents 09:52 < jmbuser> quaid:+1 09:52 < quaid> do we want to group by type? 09:52 < McGiwer> great! 09:52 < McGiwer> :) 09:52 < couf> hmm, not sure 09:52 < McGiwer> +1 for quaid's idea 09:52 < quaid> i.e., "short writing" "long writing" 09:52 < quaid> "editing" "tools" etc. 09:52 < McGiwer> the second 09:52 < McGiwer> rather 09:52 < McGiwer> editing, tools etc. 09:53 < couf> seems to really bury the "more difficult" stuff 09:53 < couf> I'd use the main tasks as a "You want it Easy -> check out this page and you might wanna learn a+b+c (learn will working)" 09:54 < quaid> that argues for *not* displaying any tasks on that page, but having it be a pointer to sub-pages 09:54 < couf> yeah, that's the only drawback 09:55 < quaid> we could pull the list in below, so it is still there v. a click deeper 09:55 < couf> which seems to be more like the join-page should look like 09:56 < McGiwer> hm 09:56 < quaid> ToC 09:56 < quaid> How To Take a Task 09:56 < quaid> Easy Tasks 09:56 < quaid> Challenging Tasks 09:56 < quaid> Hard Tasks 09:56 < quaid> == How to ... == 09:56 < quaid> [[Include(Easy)]] 09:56 < McGiwer> ;d 09:56 < McGiwer> :) 09:57 * stickster likes only listing Easy tasks, than linking at the bottom "If you are looking for something more challenging, *go here*" 09:57 < stickster> repeat as necessary 09:57 < couf> quaid: okay seems sane +1 09:57 < quaid> stickster: I think that is nearly the same thing ... 09:57 < quaid> maybe move the How to around 09:58 < McGiwer> hmm, and what about listing the categories 09:58 < McGiwer> and then, inside 09:58 < McGiwer> divide it to easy and more challenging tasks? 09:58 < quaid> i think organize the list themselves by categories 09:58 < quaid> oic 09:58 < quaid> you mean, "Easy Editing". "Easy Writing", etc 09:59 < quaid> or rather, "Editing > Easy, Editing > Hard" 09:59 < quaid> I guess my concern there is ... putting scary stuff in front of new people :) 09:59 < McGiwer> i mean sth like this: 10:00 < McGiwer> ToC 10:00 < couf> aye, I'd even think the word "edit" will be scary 10:00 < McGiwer> one category 10:00 < McGiwer> second category 10:00 < McGiwer> and inside one category 10:00 < McGiwer> == Easy stuff == 10:00 < McGiwer> == More challenging stuff == 10:00 < McGiwer> ;d 10:00 < McGiwer> :) 10:01 < couf> aah, just two categories 10:01 < quaid> that is going to make a list that is too long, though 10:01 < JonRob> one big improvement that is really easy - remove the finished tasks? 10:01 < McGiwer> couf no 10:01 < McGiwer> more catogories 10:01 < McGiwer> this is just an example 10:01 < McGiwer> hmm 10:01 < couf> JonRob: remove, or move somewhere else? 10:02 < quaid> JonRob: sure, move to another page 10:02 < McGiwer> or just move it to the end of the list 10:02 < McGiwer> or create a new category 10:02 < McGiwer> "Finished" 10:02 < McGiwer> or "Done" 10:03 < JonRob> are you thinking of still keeping the table layout? 10:03 < couf> okay, so we'll have Tasks/Easy, Tasks/Challenge, Task/Difficult, Task/Finished 10:03 < McGiwer> look here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks 10:04 < McGiwer> there are Closed/Completed Tasks 10:04 < couf> JonRob: good question 10:04 < McGiwer> but in Open tasks 10:04 < McGiwer> thera are still some remaining 10:04 * quaid is not sure how to do this without a table, though 10:04 < McGiwer> and there's a "Done" comment 10:04 < McGiwer> i would be for a table layout 10:04 < JonRob> quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Join 10:05 < couf> if we keep the list very small, it's doable without table 10:05 < JonRob> i think this layout works well 10:05 < JonRob> with a ToC 10:05 < couf> JonRob: +1 10:06 < McGiwer> yep, if it's very small 10:06 < McGiwer> :) 10:06 < McGiwer> hmm, brb 10:06 < McGiwer> i have guests 10:06 < McGiwer> :| 10:06 < McGiwer> brb 10:06 < quaid> ok, we can try the list format 10:06 < quaid> it is friendlier 10:06 < JonRob> quaid: sounding enthusiastic! 10:09 < jmbuser> quaid: +1 10:09 < McGiwer> ok, re 10:10 < couf> so what is "Easy"? 10:10 * quaid finishes brushing a little girl's hair 10:10 < quaid> yeah, what is easy 10:11 < quaid> I'm thinking that once we have the right structure, it becomes more obvious what goes where 10:11 < couf> wiki = easy, xml = challenging 10:11 < jmbuser> couf: +1 10:11 < quaid> only if you don't know XML already 10:11 < quaid> actually 10:11 < couf> true that 10:11 < quaid> I think XML is easier for those who know XHTML than a Wiki can be :) 10:12 < quaid> brb, one minute 10:12 < couf> heh, that's a sweeter approach 10:12 < couf> although, that would mean learning CVS for some, which could be a challenge 10:12 < jmbuser> GUI-oriented people like the wiki, CLI-oriented people (AKA developers) like XML 10:13 < JonRob> is there a huge difference between wiki and xml!? besides cvs 10:14 < couf> JonRob: xml is more like xhtml like quaid mentioned above, a bit more formal 10:14 < JonRob> (this is something i'd like to learn at some point :D) 10:15 < couf> the wiki is just text which gets parsed 10:15 < JonRob> couf: thanks 10:15 < couf> JonRob: please do, the more people who know XML, the better :-) 10:15 < jmbuser> XML is good in that it can be used to create many different formats from the same source 10:16 < JonRob> what scares me off it at the min is cvs i think 10:16 < JonRob> and messing up docs! 10:16 < quaid> cvs is easy, if you are worried, use a GUI CVS client :) 10:16 < JonRob> (sorry for distracting the convo, can talk about this another time!) 10:16 < quaid> no, it's poignant, actually 10:16 < jmbuser> Think of cvs as check-in and check-out of docs 10:16 < couf> JonRob: the messing up part is where cvs is so usefull 10:17 < quaid> what is "Easy"? 10:17 < quaid> we cater to the idea that Wiki == easier 10:17 < quaid> and we'll organize around that principle 10:17 < quaid> but it is not necc. true :) 10:17 < couf> aye 10:18 < quaid> ok, so the only decisions is ... 10:18 * quaid writes the two options: 10:18 < quaid> 1. organize by challenge level (easy, hard), then within that have categories (writing, editing, etc.) 10:18 < quaid> 2. organize by category, then within that by challenge level 10:19 < couf> 1st approach seems better, if one wants to do something, one will want to do say something easy 10:19 < couf> not have to dive into "writer" vs "editor" 10:20 < quaid> I think I agree because I think people think of themselves as part of a multiple role, not just one role 10:20 < couf> at first glance 10:20 < JonRob> some people might consider themselves great writers tho, but terrible editors 10:20 < quaid> "sure I develop, i also test, release, etc.) 10:20 < JonRob> so if they went to writer, they might take on a harder task then normally 10:20 < couf> quaid: +1 10:20 < quaid> "so if they want to writer" he heh 10:20 * quaid pokes fun at JonRob 10:20 < JonRob> ooops 10:22 < couf> btw, we should let go of the "open" - "assinged" distinction 10:22 < couf> let people get into a task that is already assinged 10:22 < JonRob> couf +1 10:22 < couf> s/assinged/assigned 10:23 < couf> (twice) 10:24 < couf> We do need one hitman per task 10:24 < quaid> ok 10:24 < McGiwer> ok, guys 10:24 < McGiwer> i'll read the log later 10:25 < McGiwer> i gotta go 10:25 < McGiwer> i'll send my ideas to the list 10:25 < McGiwer> bye 10:25 < quaid> we're done I thnk 10:25 < McGiwer> ahm, ok 10:25 < McGiwer> :) 10:25 < McGiwer> so bfj 10:25 < McGiwer> bfn 10:25 < McGiwer> ;) 10:25 < quaid> we'll org by difficulty, drop the open/assigned distirnction 10:25 < quaid> and do some light categorization but not so as to scare people off 10:25 < quaid> like "Skills used in this task" "Writing, editing, research" 10:26 < couf> +1 10:27 < couf> note to all (including myself): the hitmen on the task should *not* be only quaid and stickster 10:28 < quaid> heh 10:29 < quaid> that's just cruft from old lists, we'll leave those more open 10:29 < quaid> ok, that should do it 10:29 < quaid> I'll work on that list that way, see where it takes us 10:29 < quaid> since it is just couf and JonRob and I left ... 10:29 < quaid> anything else? 10:30 < JonRob> not that i know off 10:30 < JonRob> didn't notice everyone else leaving! 10:30 < couf> who's publishing the relnotes, I might have missed that? 10:32 < quaid> oh, hmm 10:32 < quaid> unfortunately the list of who can is quite small, not by design 10:32 * quaid wonders if there is time to update the CSS for docs.fp.o 10:33 < JonRob> quaid: what does that involve? i can do css if it helps 10:33 < quaid> JonRob: yes, that mainly 10:33 < quaid> JonRob: are you on #fedora-admin? 10:33 < JonRob> nope 10:34 < quaid> I was just asking riczho, who worked on the CSS for the new front page, if he thought it was possible 10:34 < quaid> we'd want to work with him to make it happen faster 10:34 < quaid> that said, we can update the CSS anytime we want :) 10:34 < JonRob> would be cool to have it in place for f7 10:34 < couf> yeah, but timing is quite short 10:34 < JonRob> mm...4 days? 10:34 < quaid> couf: probably stickster will do it, just because it is faster and easier to do it ourselves than to teach a deprecated publishing system :) 10:35 < quaid> the problem is the static v. SSI, I think 10:35 < couf> quaid: sure, just wondering 10:35 < quaid> docs.fp.o is all PHP SSI built, where the other is static 10:35 < quaid> ok, closing meeting 10:35 < quaid> 5 10:35 < quaid> 4 10:35 < quaid> 3 10:35 < quaid> 2 10:35 < quaid> 1 10:35 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 28 08:46:39 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 01:46:39 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting YYYY-MM-DD Summary Message-ID: <1180341999.3439.1161.camel@erato.phig.org> Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below Attendees: ----------- = FDSCo Members = * Pawel Sadowski (McGiwer) * Bart Couvreur (couf) * John Babich (jmbuser) * Karsten Wade (quaid) * Paul W. Frields (stickster) = Other Friends = * Tommy Reynolds (MegaCoder) * Jonathan Roberts (JonRob) Summary: --------- * Final draft of Installation Guide done, available via: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields/Drafts * Release note preparation - Ready for zero-day updates for translation - Need to prepare this coming week for Web-only release that captures updates made to Docs/Beats * John -- working on a production schedule for the UG, intended to balance "time-based release" and "feature-based release" of the UG. * User Guide -- working to be modular for use with different spins/Live CD versions. Focus on documenting common apps as separate from desktop environment, so common sections can be used by all variations. * Admin Guide -- pushing work beyond the release, need to recruit and organize around this one * Looking to add a link to the release notes from the new static front-page * Team working on updating project tasks list; lots of discussion and decisions on how to organize it: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks * Pushing new CSS/style for docs.fedoraproject.org until after Fedora 7 release; should be done as part of refreshing all Fedora web presences -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 28 08:47:34 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 01:47:34 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-05-27 Summary Message-ID: <1180342054.3439.1163.camel@erato.phig.org> Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below Attendees: ----------- = FDSCo Members = * Pawel Sadowski (McGiwer) * Bart Couvreur (couf) * John Babich (jmbuser) * Karsten Wade (quaid) * Paul W. Frields (stickster) = Other Friends = * Tommy Reynolds (MegaCoder) * Jonathan Roberts (JonRob) Summary: --------- * Final draft of Installation Guide done, available via: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields/Drafts * Release note preparation - Ready for zero-day updates for translation - Need to prepare this coming week for Web-only release that captures updates made to Docs/Beats * John -- working on a production schedule for the UG, intended to balance "time-based release" and "feature-based release" of the UG. * User Guide -- working to be modular for use with different spins/Live CD versions. Focus on documenting common apps as separate from desktop environment, so common sections can be used by all variations. * Admin Guide -- pushing work beyond the release, need to recruit and organize around this one * Looking to add a link to the release notes from the new static front-page * Team working on updating project tasks list; lots of discussion and decisions on how to organize it: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks * Pushing new CSS/style for docs.fedoraproject.org until after Fedora 7 release; should be done as part of refreshing all Fedora web presences -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon May 28 15:00:43 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 16:00:43 +0100 Subject: Broken page Message-ID: <3263b11b0705280800w1c3f0c41pe65b8807c09fb200@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, was just doing a bit of editing - small stuff really - but an error message appeared when I tried to save changes to the DUG/Games page and I don't know where to report it to. For now that page appears to be down, at least on my system: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Games Sorry all! Jon From paulo.banon at googlemail.com Mon May 28 15:11:52 2007 From: paulo.banon at googlemail.com (Paulo Santos) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 17:11:52 +0200 Subject: Broken page In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705280800w1c3f0c41pe65b8807c09fb200@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0705280800w1c3f0c41pe65b8807c09fb200@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7a41c4bc0705280811x75b9a170n3d928817a0cf7386@mail.gmail.com> Hi Jon, This should be fixed :) There is no procedure for these reports, dont know if this should go to the ticketer or not Thanks, Paulo On 5/28/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Hi all, > > was just doing a bit of editing - small stuff really - but an error > message appeared when I tried to save changes to the DUG/Games page > and I don't know where to report it to. > > For now that page appears to be down, at least on my system: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Games > > Sorry all! > > Jon > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mpascucci at gmail.com Mon May 28 18:12:33 2007 From: mpascucci at gmail.com (Mario Pascucci) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 20:12:33 +0200 Subject: Presentation and some questions Message-ID: <71dc09d30705281112o5f9c254bt3f3143193f7eb39a@mail.gmail.com> Hi all. I apologize if this is wrong list, but I was wondering about... I'm a very happy Fedora user (and before I was happy RadHat user from rel 6.1), and I maintain a blog on Linux and Fedora, in italian, where I publish some guides about Linux and one on Installing and configuring Fedora (always in italian). I done a lot of work with Qemu to capture installation screenshots (both graphical and text mode) of Fedora 6. The manual is here: http://www.ismprofessional.net/pascucci/?p=56 For generating it I use Docbook 4.2 XML with xmlto utility to generate html docs (I use vim to wrote it). Anyone found some part of it useful? Can I contribute to the documentation in any way with it? Screenshots, maybe? My gpg key ID is 0?5F0AC7D3 Key fingerprint = 8727 1264 83D7 4BE4 7721 05DE 929B 848B 5F0A C7D3 I already have a Bugzilla account. Thanks in advance. -- Mario 'Reliant' Pascucci http://www.ismprofessional.net/pascucci/ From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 29 01:25:59 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 18:25:59 -0700 Subject: Presentation and some questions In-Reply-To: <71dc09d30705281112o5f9c254bt3f3143193f7eb39a@mail.gmail.com> References: <71dc09d30705281112o5f9c254bt3f3143193f7eb39a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1180401959.3439.1188.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-05-28 at 20:12 +0200, Mario Pascucci wrote: > Hi all. > > I apologize if this is wrong list, but I was wondering about... No, no, you definitely found the right place. At least a good place to start. Have you seen/used this page? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join > I'm a very happy Fedora user (and before I was happy RadHat user from > rel 6.1), and I maintain a blog on Linux and Fedora, in italian, where > I publish some guides about Linux and one on Installing and > configuring Fedora (always in italian). I done a lot of work with Qemu > to capture installation screenshots (both graphical and text mode) of > Fedora 6. > The manual is here: > http://www.ismprofessional.net/pascucci/?p=56 > > For generating it I use Docbook 4.2 XML with xmlto utility to generate > html docs (I use vim to wrote it). Great. We're using DocBook v.4.4. In many cases, work is done on the Wiki, then converted to XML for final edit, translation, and publishing. Writers choose their preferred starting place. > Anyone found some part of it useful? Can I contribute to the > documentation in any way with it? Screenshots, maybe? Are you interested in writing, in English or in Italian? We can work with documents in any language, as long as there are enough native speakers who can help edit per Fedora Documentation standards. We currently have an Installation Guide, and the Fedora 7 version is in the very final draft. You can obtain it easily from here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields/Drafts Paul put up a link to a tarball of the full XML source. There is just enough time for you to read and provide any comments back; you can send them to this list. Do you have other interests in documenting? User or administrator guides? How-to use specific tools? Live CD, custom spins, or other installation/customizations? Over this week we are working to fix up the tasks page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks Watch this list for an announcement that the task list is ready for peer review, etc. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 29 01:29:23 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 28 May 2007 18:29:23 -0700 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <1179995660.3439.784.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705160200k77324731uc68229da4e92d8fc@mail.gmail.com> <1179352348.15623.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1179995660.3439.784.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1180402164.3439.1192.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-05-24 at 01:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > What is not going to happen anytime soon, aiui, is a Fedora distributed > wizard/client that sits on the desktop and helps people find the way to > play their MP3 files. No matter how many impassioned arguments are > made. The laws are the laws until they are changed or expire. Ironically, this came out nearly totally wrong. In fact, we are definitely doing just as I describe: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureCodecBuddy What I meant was that we are not going to create a client or tool or anything that permits illegal stuff, or points to how to do illegal stuff. The whole point of CodecBuddy is to provide legal solutions where they are available, and to at least explain when they are not available. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From draciron at gmail.com Tue May 29 06:44:18 2007 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 01:44:18 -0500 Subject: Welcome wizzard In-Reply-To: <1180402164.3439.1192.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <3263b11b0705151317j706e1939wcf394b51a91815d1@mail.gmail.com> <1179274733.3439.179.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705160200k77324731uc68229da4e92d8fc@mail.gmail.com> <1179352348.15623.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1179995660.3439.784.camel@erato.phig.org> <1180402164.3439.1192.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: Playing MP3s, wma, wmv, flv files and such is not illegal. The reason I understand that it cannot be packaged in Fedora while it is standard in other distros is that if Fedora did so it would get Redhat sued for patent royalties. Redhat is not going to pay money to give people free software. It could not afford to do so, as such because Redhat is involved support for such media formats is not included in the official distro. It is easily availible and the unofficial FAQ as well as FAQs on places like Fedoragorums.org do point to where to download codecs, and set up your machine for various plugins and how to play various media. I wish nobody used wmv files. I hate that format. Oggs are superior by far to Mp3s but people need to play those files to function. Obviously because of potential litigation they could not be included in the distro but a link to a website that did pertain to such files would be helpful and I suspect would not make Redhat liable for any patents as it is independently maintained. I didn't suggest that Fedora include anything in the distro to set this up. Only a link to a website that would contain such information such as the unofficial FAQ. You could describe it as "Here you will find answers to some questions not answered in this documentation. This FAQ has no connection with the Fedora organization. Use at your own risk" and leave it at that. Most of what I spoke of has nothing to do with propriatory formats. Automating the setup of NFS and SMB through firewalls for example. Or at least making the documentation easy to find and up to date. Configuring media players for free formats. How to burn a CD in Linux using popular software (especially K3b which will give them quite a few options and an interface close to windoze burners. I don't know many people that actually burn CDs through windoze explorer or on the Linux side through Nautilaus.) My ideas are geared toward new Linux users primarily and to a lessor extent to making some things easier to find for vet Linux users. Setting up a web site using LAMP is something that is commonly asked about for example. Using SSH instead of ftp. How to talk to windoze machines using SSH/SCP, things people do in other words. Think about it. What was your first experience with Linux? Mine was after a week of hassles I finally got it installed and working. The biggest challenge was my CD was controlled by my sound card (a common configuration in the mid 90s.). I eventually got it all sorted out. X was not auto started yet. So here I was sitting at a brand new prompt. Don't think it was even a Bash shell thinking now what? While starting in X helps a great deal most new users have the same problem. They sit there with a nice blinking prompt saying now what? Many of Fedora's defaults are highly unfriendly to new Linux users. They don't want to go to extreme effort to burn a CD. Installing a burner app however is something they will be happy to do and automating the process of installing at least KDE libs and installing K3b would go a long way to solving that issue for new Linux users. The same script could download any extras needed to burn CDs from Nautiles. There is probably even a way to burn ISOs as images from Nautilis but not sure if that comes in default support. The documentation from this group on burning CDs never touches K3b. Never touches how to burn an ISO as a bootable CD. Doesn't cover any of the potential problems such as removing a CD if something goes wrong. Nor does it step them though how to get that software. In my opinion the VERY first thing a user should see is how to update their machine. Then how to add software using a Yum GUI. The default load is not really functional for most users. Far too much software is left out. The welcome wizard could be interactive in many areas in this way. By letting them using just plain HTML download scripts to install software that is needed. By pointing them to Yum GUIs. Sorry command line YUM is not going to impress people. Even vets don't often use it because you almost have to know the exact version of what you are looking for. I use the command line to mass updates. The rest I do from Yum extender or Gnome Yum. We introduce new LInux users to installing software like that and they will LOVE Linux. No more downloading a zip file, extracting it, running and install program and hoping that later if they don't like it they can uninstall as is the Windoze experience in installing software. No more tarballs which often send new Linux users screaming into the night or dependancy hell all to common with rpms downloaded from sites. Yum takes care of the messy stuff and YUM GuIs make it organized and very easy to find and download software. Yet by default there is only the software updater which is good for getting Yum extender but not much else. Not sure if Gnome Yum is even availible through the updater. I'm on a very different page from you guys apparently. The way I see it is the reason almost everybody who tries Linux and leaves Linux is because they simply don't know where to start and what software to use. A welcome wizards not going to have too much value to those of us that already know Linux because we already know what we like, what we want, how we want our machines set up. It is new users that would need this info and need it badly. So giving them choices, showing them screenshots of what various applications look like, links to detailed documentation if such exists would go a long way to making many peoples first Linux experience a good one. Being realistic but avoiding doing something that is could cause litigation is a fine line but a worthy effort. Me I love Fedora as a distro. I hate the defaults. I would NEVER work for long on a system set up as a default Fedora install. No problem as Fedora makes it easy to build my system like I want it built. What they do not do is make it easy to learn how to do this. If all I knew was the software updater tool and used a default Fedora install I would feel like I was using half the machine a windoze box was. I would be constantly frustrated in how hard it was or unable to find how to do many things. I would be unaware that it was Fedora not Linux that did not support the use of certain file formats. File sharing would be damn near impossible to do securely. Can't count how many times I've seen users that made their home dir rwx to the world. Anyway my point is I want to see Fedora continue to be the top distro out there. I also want to see more people using Linux. I have my ways and many of them are not for the average user. Some are because I've done it this way or that way for years and for me it's just easier. For example setting up networking by editing the files. I would NEVER send a new Linux user into that mess. For me though it's just easier to do it that way than try to figure out where the networking was in the GUI, then find all the setting I want and battle Fedora defaults for things like net mask. So I try to think through a new Linux users eyes rather than mine when I try to help them get things set up the first time. Something I do very frequently and people I introduce to Linux who ask me questions have a very high retention rate. Very few go back to Windoze and many are full time Linux users in less than 2 years. That is because I point them to easy to use apps. Spend time teaching them how Linux works, show them the benefits and NEVER let them suffer through a default install. I am constantly frustrated when I try to introduce people to Linux and they give me these horror tales of trying to use default Linux installs (Mostly Fedora and Ubuntu lately, though a sprinkling of Mandriva and SUSE). How they couldn't do this or that. I'd of course be able to point them to an app that they'd like and every so often I'd get some to retry Linux and they'd have a much better experience. Many times they were so frustrated by their first effort they are now scared of Linux. They feel technically challenged. Those were people interested enough to try Linux but I feel like we slapped them in the face with our refusal to provide good help. Remember we are the underdog here. We need to help people get out from under MIcrosoft's thumb. Help them breath free for once. They are not going to endure much. They know windoze. They may not be happy but a known evil with most people is always less scary than the unknown. So lets shed some light for them. Show them the EASY way to do things. Not the "right" way as defined by old school Nix. For exanple what is the most popular burner out there? K3b by far! So lets show them how to set it up and use it and point them to the K3b documentation for advanced functionality. Lets show them how to download and install flash player for common browsers. How to set up networking in baby steps so that even non-techies can set up their network. Setting up networking is actually easier in Linux than in windoze. If there are no legal repercussions we might even include snapshots of windoze networking configuration and the equivalent in Linux. Give them reference points. Compare software and give them choices and options to explore. Documentation is not just how to, it is also the first thing a new user should encounter. Yet the current way of doing things a user has to seek it out. They are not going to explore endlessly. They want to Rock N Roll right out the door then explore to find more. So the welcome wizard is an awesome way to open the door to the documentation. Point them in different directions and increase the retention rate of new Linux users. Anyway what's my ideas on the topic. On 5/28/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Thu, 2007-05-24 at 01:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > What is not going to happen anytime soon, aiui, is a Fedora distributed > > wizard/client that sits on the desktop and helps people find the way to > > play their MP3 files. No matter how many impassioned arguments are > > made. The laws are the laws until they are changed or expire. > > Ironically, this came out nearly totally wrong. > > In fact, we are definitely doing just as I describe: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureCodecBuddy > > What I meant was that we are not going to create a client or tool or > anything that permits illegal stuff, or points to how to do illegal > stuff. The whole point of CodecBuddy is to provide legal solutions > where they are available, and to at least explain when they are not > available. > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project > Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject > quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 > ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mpascucci at gmail.com Tue May 29 08:53:53 2007 From: mpascucci at gmail.com (Mario Pascucci) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 10:53:53 +0200 Subject: Presentation and some questions In-Reply-To: <1180401959.3439.1188.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <71dc09d30705281112o5f9c254bt3f3143193f7eb39a@mail.gmail.com> <1180401959.3439.1188.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <71dc09d30705290153s1f9e017cj7d964fed565492e9@mail.gmail.com> 2007/5/29, Karsten Wade : > On Mon, 2007-05-28 at 20:12 +0200, Mario Pascucci wrote: > > Hi all. > > > > I apologize if this is wrong list, but I was wondering about... > > No, no, you definitely found the right place. At least a good place to > start. > > Have you seen/used this page? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join > Yes. > > I'm a very happy Fedora user (and before I was happy RadHat user from > > rel 6.1), and I maintain a blog on Linux and Fedora, in italian, where > > I publish some guides about Linux and one on Installing and > > configuring Fedora (always in italian). I done a lot of work with Qemu > > to capture installation screenshots (both graphical and text mode) of > > Fedora 6. > > The manual is here: > > http://www.ismprofessional.net/pascucci/?p=56 > > > > For generating it I use Docbook 4.2 XML with xmlto utility to generate > > html docs (I use vim to wrote it). > > Great. We're using DocBook v.4.4. In many cases, work is done on the > Wiki, then converted to XML for final edit, translation, and publishing. > Writers choose their preferred starting place. > I write directly DocBook XML. > > Anyone found some part of it useful? Can I contribute to the > > documentation in any way with it? Screenshots, maybe? > > Are you interested in writing, in English or in Italian? We can work > with documents in any language, as long as there are enough native > speakers who can help edit per Fedora Documentation standards. > I prefer italian, but anyway I can read english, at least the typical technical documentation style. > We currently have an Installation Guide, and the Fedora 7 version is in > the very final draft. You can obtain it easily from here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields/Drafts > > Paul put up a link to a tarball of the full XML source. There is just > enough time for you to read and provide any comments back; you can send > them to this list. > > Do you have other interests in documenting? User or administrator > guides? How-to use specific tools? Live CD, custom spins, or other > installation/customizations? > I wrote an installation guide, that is similar to Paul Frields guide, but I talk more estensively about preparing system, using SystemRescueCD to backup existing (windows) partitions, resize them and, eventually, restore the system after erasing Linux. I talk about "practical installation", with tips about packages choices, partition sizes and structure, little troubleshooting with X, generic peripheral trobleshoot (with lspci, lsusb and google) and rescue mode use (this is for the specific situation in case of Windows reinstall that overwrites Grub). I also wrote: * a quick guide to setup an external storage (USB disk or pen drive) encrypted with LUKS: http://www.ismprofessional.net/pascucci/?p=52 * installation report of Fedora 6 on some notebooks: HP nx7300, nc6400 and Thinkpad z60t * tips for play MP3, DVDs and DivX with Livna and tips for using OGG and FLAC instead of MP3 * quick install for Flash Player 9 * quick install for Java runtime 5 * quick install for bluetooth mouse * quick install for Wacom tablet * quick install of Return to castle Wolfenstein game in native mode * a full guide/tutorial on GnuPG on Windows and Linux * quick install of logitech quickcam webcam and more, all available on my website. I understand that many of them are "product related", but I think that can be useful for many people that use Fedora. > Over this week we are working to fix up the tasks page: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks > > Watch this list for an announcement that the task list is ready for peer > review, etc. > Ok. Thanks. -- Mario 'Reliant' Pascucci http://www.ismprofessional.net/pascucci/ From guillermo.gomez at gmail.com Tue May 29 12:15:15 2007 From: guillermo.gomez at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Guillermo_G=F3mez?=) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 08:15:15 -0400 Subject: Reintroducing myself In-Reply-To: <1179872098.4990.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4643C551.5080902@gmail.com> <46507AFE.3080104@skynet.be> <63a901070705220126k746c64fdp889de187b087f03b@mail.gmail.com> <1179833861.22038.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <63a901070705221240p64fed6c7oc572be20c1873815@mail.gmail.com> <1179872098.4990.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <63a901070705290515p6627627bp720f7a9336542015@mail.gmail.com> Hi I got the other reader approval in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue . What's next ? regards Guillermo On 5/22/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-05-22 at 15:40 -0400, Guillermo G?mez wrote: > > Thanks Paul > > > > Should i first put my entrie in > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/PublishQueue > > You can certainly put it there right away if you like. Then you could > get a second translator to check the work and that person can enter his > or her name after finishing. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- Ing.Guillermo Gomez S. http://fedora.gomix.org From diegobz at gmail.com Tue May 29 17:23:07 2007 From: diegobz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Diego_B=FArigo_Zacar=E3o?=) Date: Tue, 29 May 2007 14:23:07 -0300 Subject: Desktop Users Guide - Devel Message-ID: <6600c1b10705291023y35818736m2d3dbff220089968@mail.gmail.com> Hello, all! I have checked out the desktop-user-guide at the CVS, however there are no files into devel/ directory. I would like to know what's the plans about that guide for F7. 1 - Who's working on that guide? 2 - Is there a data/freeze to the guide to be available to the translators? The DocsProject/Schedule[1] looks like no-updated to me. Or... am I wrong? :) Best regards [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#head-f047efd6ccc686c96cfa021696ed57bb17ba87d9 -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o Linux User #402589 USE SOFTWARE LIVRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 30 22:28:14 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 03:58:14 +0530 Subject: Fedora 7 installation guide and release notes Message-ID: <465DFA7E.4060004@fedoraproject.org> Hi When are these getting published? It would make it easier to link to if they were published a bit earlier to the actual release. Is there any other documents waiting to be published on the pipeline? What's the status on the updated Fedora user guide. I still need to update the software management guide which is hopefully done soon. It might be useful to link to all the relevant user specific docs esp ones focusing on Fedora 7 prominently from http://docs.fedoraproject.org There was a short document on burning images, virt guide in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Fedora7VirtQuickStart and possibly others. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 31 10:12:15 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 03:12:15 -0700 Subject: Fedora 7 installation guide and release notes In-Reply-To: <465DFA7E.4060004@fedoraproject.org> References: <465DFA7E.4060004@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1180606335.5217.180.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 03:58 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > When are these getting published? It would make it easier to link to if > they were published a bit earlier to the actual release. Is there any > other documents waiting to be published on the pipeline? Continual balance of resources and effort. Both have a schedule and some fairly obvious reasons for that: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#relnotes-schedule http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule For the release notes, we wait until the last possible moments to merge content from the Wiki. This is part of the promise made to provide latest content. For the Installation Guide and other guides, you'll note in the schedule that PO files were due for guides yesterday. This is part of the promise made to translators to give them long enough to translate. In this release, we took advantage of the extra time we had to get additional content included for translation and inclusion in the ISO. Finally, the release notes are modified at the last minute to contain the release name, which is traditionally kept "secret" until the release is made official. > What's the status on the updated Fedora user guide. I still need to > update the software management guide which is hopefully done soon. You might have missed the proposal made on this list a few weeks ago. A group of us in a FDSCo meeting (including UG and AG contributors) felt that we could merge the SMG content into the UG and AG. All of the user-oriented content goes into the UG, and any special repo making content goes into the AG. So, the content still needs updating with each release, but the title would go away, merged into two others. What think ye? > It might be useful to link to all the relevant user specific docs esp > ones focusing on Fedora 7 prominently from http://docs.fedoraproject.org > > There was a short document on burning images, http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/ ? I changed the link on the page to read "Making (Burning) Fedora Discs" > virt guide in > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Fedora7VirtQuickStart and possibly > others. Ah, hmm, yes. Keep the suggestions coming for user-specific docs. Although we want to produce a Fedora Live CD/Images Guide, we need to link to the current content for now. I'll push some of that up tonight. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 31 10:13:24 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 03:13:24 -0700 Subject: where to meet Message-ID: <1180606404.5217.182.camel@erato.phig.org> Do you all care if FDSCo meets in #fedora-meeting instead of #fedora-docs? Now, historically it has been *very valuable* to have discussions where we socialize/work/etc. on IRC. More people who are lurking are caught up in the conversation, etc. However, I see the same thing happening on #fedora-meeting, except it is capturing lurkers from across the whole project. I notice that people who are interested in the meeting(s) either lurk on #fedora-meeting or join the channel when a meeting is announced in the source channel. So, I am considering changing my mind on the subject, and I'm curious what you all think. thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From josemanimala at gmail.com Thu May 31 10:23:18 2007 From: josemanimala at gmail.com (jose manimala) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 15:53:18 +0530 Subject: where to meet In-Reply-To: <1180606404.5217.182.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1180606404.5217.182.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <53a863600705310323k75b2e51bv6dde87b9fbb43040@mail.gmail.com> it seems to be a good idea. There maybe a better chance of getting lots more people involved. the discussions can allow communication between other parts of fedora. Jose From couf at skynet.be Thu May 31 10:48:47 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 12:48:47 +0200 Subject: where to meet In-Reply-To: <1180606404.5217.182.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1180606404.5217.182.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1180608527.4364.7.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Op donderdag 31-05-2007 om 03:13 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Karsten Wade: > Do you all care if FDSCo meets in #fedora-meeting instead of > #fedora-docs? Heh, I was wandering when this would pop up again :-) > > Now, historically it has been *very valuable* to have discussions where > we socialize/work/etc. on IRC. More people who are lurking are caught > up in the conversation, etc. Indeed > > However, I see the same thing happening on #fedora-meeting, except it is > capturing lurkers from across the whole project. I notice that people > who are interested in the meeting(s) either lurk on #fedora-meeting or > join the channel when a meeting is announced in the source channel. Indeed number 2 > > So, I am considering changing my mind on the subject, and I'm curious > what you all think. I'm tempted to agree on moving, as long as we try to keep our momentum alive on the #fedora-docs channel as well. It sometimes happens that people start some discussions on #fedora-meeting which doesn't really get "back-ported" to the real project channel / mailing-list. If we keep an eye on that, we could probably move the meeting. OTOH: our meetings take place on Sundays, which is the day that most of the people in meeting don't really watch it (IMO). But then again, it's the challenge of getting attention! > > thx - Karsten Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu May 31 12:06:51 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 13:06:51 +0100 Subject: Fedora 7 installation guide and release notes In-Reply-To: <1180606335.5217.180.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <465DFA7E.4060004@fedoraproject.org> <1180606335.5217.180.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0705310506w6c64b136uf7d730181ef851b3@mail.gmail.com> > A group of us in a FDSCo meeting (including UG and AG contributors) felt > that we could merge the SMG content into the UG and AG. All of the > user-oriented content goes into the UG, and any special repo making > content goes into the AG. I just started moving over the Pup and Pirut guides from the SMG to the UG. One thing struck me though: some points in the SMG don't really fall in the UG or the AG, such as Software Management Concepts. Maybe the SMG still needs to hang around in some form or another to cater for these bits? Jon From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 31 12:57:01 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 08:57:01 -0400 Subject: Fedora 7 installation guide and release notes In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0705310506w6c64b136uf7d730181ef851b3@mail.gmail.com> References: <465DFA7E.4060004@fedoraproject.org> <1180606335.5217.180.camel@erato.phig.org> <3263b11b0705310506w6c64b136uf7d730181ef851b3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1180616221.9835.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 13:06 +0100, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > A group of us in a FDSCo meeting (including UG and AG contributors) felt > > that we could merge the SMG content into the UG and AG. All of the > > user-oriented content goes into the UG, and any special repo making > > content goes into the AG. > > I just started moving over the Pup and Pirut guides from the SMG to > the UG. One thing struck me though: some points in the SMG don't > really fall in the UG or the AG, such as Software Management Concepts. > Maybe the SMG still needs to hang around in some form or another to > cater for these bits? This merits some discussion, definitely. I originally edited this guide -- some time ago -- and have (I hope) gained a little bit better vantage point in the intervening time. The way I see it, the concepts outlined here are too advanced for new users, especially converts from other platforms. The purpose of the User Guide, especially, is not to Teach You All About Linux/Fedora/Packages/Whatever; it is to show you how to accomplish some common tasks. Those tasks should definitely include updating the software on your machine, since it means inheriting bugfixes and security patches. The user needn't understand concepts of software management or packaging to accomplish that task. The Administrators Guide, however, is a great place to *repeat* the content on "how" and then, additionally, *include* the content on "why." System administrators *should* know these concepts, since they affect the provision of services to users. So include them there, and a note in the UG can easily direct rabidly curious or otherwise advanced users to the AG. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 31 13:03:22 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 09:03:22 -0400 Subject: where to meet In-Reply-To: <1180608527.4364.7.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> References: <1180606404.5217.182.camel@erato.phig.org> <1180608527.4364.7.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <1180616602.9835.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 12:48 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Op donderdag 31-05-2007 om 03:13 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Karsten > Wade: > > Do you all care if FDSCo meets in #fedora-meeting instead of > > #fedora-docs? Not anymore. Let's do it. > OTOH: our meetings take place on Sundays, which is the day that most of > the people in meeting don't really watch it (IMO). But then again, it's > the challenge of getting attention! Since we're tangentially on this subject, and engaging our flip-flop muscles -- which I am completely in favor of doing when it makes sense -- let's also reconsider our meeting time. Tuesdays at 1600 UTC is ultimately a better time for me to do our meetings, so I'm selfishly suggesting we should change that too. I've noticed Sunday meetings tend to drag while people are pulled in different directions by home life, myself most definitely included. I would personally much rather have a damn-the-torpedoes, full-speed-ahead meeting that takes my lunch hour at work. Our grid showed this time to be workable for pretty much everyone -- is anyone opposed to switching? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu May 31 15:05:12 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:05:12 +0300 Subject: where to meet In-Reply-To: <1180616602.9835.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1180606404.5217.182.camel@erato.phig.org> <1180608527.4364.7.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> <1180616602.9835.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0705310805l3bcf1111m859eb08aba860ffd@mail.gmail.com> Tuesdays at 1600 hrs UTC in #fedora-meeting works for me. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From dimitris at glezos.com Thu May 31 16:07:40 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 17:07:40 +0100 Subject: Relnotes appearing at docs.fedoraproject.org Message-ID: <465EF2CC.2040700@glezos.com> Hey all. Just a quick reminder that we have two published versions of the release notes [1]: * The one included in the ISO (that is, in F7 itself) [2] * The updated, "current" ones (also called web-only because they are not included in the release) [3] [1]: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f7/ [2]: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f7/iso/ [3]: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f7// All translated docs that were included in the release should exist in [2] and be linked from [1]. All docs that have been updated with the corrections/additions (there were around 60 string changes) should be uploaded in [3] and their links changed at [1]. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From cpanceac at gmail.com Thu May 31 15:52:04 2007 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 18:52:04 +0300 Subject: Relnotes appearing at docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <465EF2CC.2040700@glezos.com> References: <465EF2CC.2040700@glezos.com> Message-ID: worth mentionig the mirros? 2007/5/31, Dimitris Glezos : > > > Hey all. > > Just a quick reminder that we have two published versions of the release > notes [1]: > > * The one included in the ISO (that is, in F7 itself) [2] > * The updated, "current" ones (also called web-only because they are not > included in the release) [3] > > [1]: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f7/ > [2]: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f7/iso/ > [3]: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f7// > > All translated docs that were included in the release should exist in [2] > and be > linked from [1]. > > All docs that have been updated with the corrections/additions (there were > around 60 string changes) should be uploaded in [3] and their links > changed at [1]. > > -d > > > > -- > Dimitris Glezos > Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B > http://dimitris.glezos.com/ > > "He who gives up functionality for ease of use > loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) > -- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 31 23:03:48 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 16:03:48 -0700 Subject: Relnotes appearing at docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: References: <465EF2CC.2040700@glezos.com> Message-ID: <1180652628.5217.196.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 18:52 +0300, cornel panceac wrote: > worth mentionig the mirros? I think Dimitris was making sure that translators know what was going on with their work at the canonical location. It can be a bit confusing if you come looking for what was done and in the ISO, and don't find the language. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 31 23:05:43 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 31 May 2007 16:05:43 -0700 Subject: where to meet In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0705310805l3bcf1111m859eb08aba860ffd@mail.gmail.com> References: <1180606404.5217.182.camel@erato.phig.org> <1180608527.4364.7.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> <1180616602.9835.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0705310805l3bcf1111m859eb08aba860ffd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1180652743.5217.200.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-05-31 at 18:05 +0300, John Babich wrote: > Tuesdays at 1600 hrs UTC in #fedora-meeting works for me. +1 It's not my favorite time on Tuesday, but it works well enough, and certainly much better than Sunday. I'll further suggest that we move the coming meeting to the following Tuesday, if we get consensus. This will help us get pulled into the FWN, which has a Sat. deadline prior to the Sunday meeting. I've been manually putting in our content, but I wouldn't mind letting the beat writer take care of that instead. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: