From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 11:54:23 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 21:54:23 +1000 Subject: join DocWritersGroup Message-ID: <4700DFEF.5070207@gmail.com> Hi, I have just been approved for cla_redhat. I was wondering if I was suppose to join the DocWritersGroup by asking here, or by editing my Fedora Account. When I attempt to add DocWritersGroup as a new membership I receive the following error: A problem occurred in a Python script. Here is the sequence of function calls leading up to the error, in the order they occurred. /srv/web/accounts/userbox.cgi 305 if username and action=='edit': 306 website.handle_group_mods(dbh, form, 'userbox.cgi', username, 307 None, fixed_item='username', auth_username=auth_username) 308 309 website.print_footer("Fedora User") builtin None = None, fixed_item undefined, auth_username = 'mdious' /srv/web/accounts/website.py in handle_group_mods(dbh=, form=FieldStorage(None, None, [MiniFieldStorage('user..., '0'), MiniFieldStorage('_role_show_all', '1')]), url='userbox.cgi', username='mdious', groupname=None, fixed_item='username', auth_username='mdious') 474 role_group = form['groupname'].value 475 role_user = form['username'].value 476 allowed_actions = get_allowed_group_actions(dbh, auth_username, role_group, group_info=group_info, for_username=role_user) 477 if role_user == auth_username: 478 permitted = 'add_self' in allowed_actions allowed_actions undefined, global get_allowed_group_actions = , dbh = , auth_username = 'mdious', role_group = 'DocWritersGroup', group_info = {}, for_username undefined, role_user = 'mdious' /srv/web/accounts/website.py in get_allowed_group_actions(dbh=, auth_username='mdious', groupname='DocWritersGroup', group_info={}, for_username='mdious') 441 my_group_info = group_info 442 ginfo = get_group_info(dbh, groupname) 443 my_group_info.update(ginfo) 444 if my_group_info['name'] == 'cla_done': 445 return [] my_group_info = {}, my_group_info.update = , ginfo = None TypeError: iteration over non-sequence args = ('iteration over non-sequence',) Thanks for your time and help. Kind Regards, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From couf at skynet.be Mon Oct 1 16:37:11 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:37:11 +0200 Subject: join DocWritersGroup In-Reply-To: <4700DFEF.5070207@gmail.com> References: <4700DFEF.5070207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191256631.8165.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op maandag 01-10-2007 om 21:54 uur [tijdzone +1000], schreef Murray: > Hi, > > I have just been approved for cla_redhat. I was wondering if I was > suppose to join the DocWritersGroup by asking here, or by editing my > Fedora Account. When I attempt to add DocWritersGroup as a new > membership I receive the following error: [snip] Yep, that's completely normal, because the DocWritersGroup[1] is a wiki-group which is a totally different concept to FAS group. You actually don't need to add yourself to that group anymore to start drafting[2] in the wiki, being part of the (wiki-group) EditGroup[3] is enough. Could you tell us where you found that info? We might have missed a page when we changed the access-stuff, thanks in advance. > > Thanks for your time and help. > > Kind Regards, > Murray. > Bart [1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocWritersGroup [2]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts [3]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditGroup -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From couf at skynet.be Mon Oct 1 16:37:11 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 18:37:11 +0200 Subject: join DocWritersGroup In-Reply-To: <4700DFEF.5070207@gmail.com> References: <4700DFEF.5070207@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191256631.8165.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op maandag 01-10-2007 om 21:54 uur [tijdzone +1000], schreef Murray: > Hi, > > I have just been approved for cla_redhat. I was wondering if I was > suppose to join the DocWritersGroup by asking here, or by editing my > Fedora Account. When I attempt to add DocWritersGroup as a new > membership I receive the following error: [snip] Yep, that's completely normal, because the DocWritersGroup[1] is a wiki-group which is a totally different concept to FAS group. You actually don't need to add yourself to that group anymore to start drafting[2] in the wiki, being part of the (wiki-group) EditGroup[3] is enough. Could you tell us where you found that info? We might have missed a page when we changed the access-stuff, thanks in advance. > > Thanks for your time and help. > > Kind Regards, > Murray. > Bart [1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocWritersGroup [2]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts [3]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditGroup -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From adfsilva at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 18:17:12 2007 From: adfsilva at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Ant=F3nio?= Duarte Filipe da Silva) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:17:12 +0100 Subject: AntonioSilva (matlou) Message-ID: <1191262632.8924.2.camel@quarto.lan> Hi there, my name is Ant?nio Duarte Filipe da Silva, I'm 33 years old and I live in Coruche, a small village in Portugal. Until 5 years ago I used to work in a IT firm in Lisbon but now I'm a free-lancer / entrepreneur with some spare time on my hands which I'd like to use to help Fedora in any way I can. I owe a lot to Fedora given the fact that I use it since Fedora Core 1 when I joined together a router out of a Pentium 100, a speedtouch adsl modem and an internal pci hub :) It worked quite well. I haven't contributed to any open source project yet mainly due to lack of time. I usually look at myself as a "rusty developer" and I think I can help with translations to Portuguese (pt_PT) as well as any documentation for now while I start looking for some other tasks as I move along and get more used to the whole process of contributing. Here's my GPG Key ID and fingerprint: [Matlou at quarto Fedora]$ gpg --fingerprint 826D4405 pub 1024D/826D4405 2005-10-05 Key fingerprint = 2160 8211 4C50 BDDA ECEF 527E 840E 4FD7 826D 4405 uid Ant?nio Duarte Filipe da Silva sub 4096g/4F1C3FA0 2005-10-05 Hope I can bring something good to the project. Thanks to glezos for sponsoring me :) -- ---------- // ---------- Ant?nio Silva (Matlou) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Esta ? uma parte de mensagem assinada digitalmente URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Oct 1 20:16:36 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 06:16:36 +1000 Subject: join DocWritersGroup In-Reply-To: <1191256631.8165.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4700DFEF.5070207@gmail.com> <1191256631.8165.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <470155A4.7070506@gmail.com> Bart Couvreur wrote: > Op maandag 01-10-2007 om 21:54 uur [tijdzone +1000], schreef Murray: >> Hi, >> >> I have just been approved for cla_redhat. I was wondering if I was >> suppose to join the DocWritersGroup by asking here, or by editing my >> Fedora Account. When I attempt to add DocWritersGroup as a new >> membership I receive the following error: > [snip] > > Yep, that's completely normal, because the DocWritersGroup[1] is a > wiki-group which is a totally different concept to FAS group. You > actually don't need to add yourself to that group anymore to start > drafting[2] in the wiki, being part of the (wiki-group) EditGroup[3] is > enough. > > Could you tell us where you found that info? We might have missed a page > when we changed the access-stuff, thanks in advance. > >> Thanks for your time and help. >> >> Kind Regards, >> Murray. >> > > Bart > > [1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocWritersGroup > [2]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts > [3]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditGroup > Hi, Sorry about that, I just misinterpreted the information: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join/CheckList#head-1e4c02a81a29797d6ec4ca761fb1c3ed0114882a It was "Ask to be added to the DocWritersGroup". Thanks for your help and the links :) - Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From jaredsmith at jaredsmith.net Tue Oct 2 00:15:40 2007 From: jaredsmith at jaredsmith.net (Jared Smith) Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2007 20:15:40 -0400 Subject: Plone to DocBook solution Message-ID: Earlier this year I hear talk of a Plone solution designed to let contributors write in Plone, and then have it converted to DocBook and then go through a workflow where it would be edited, checked into CVS, etc. I'm just curious where that ended up. (I know, most of you don't know me from Adam, so who am I to be asking? Let's just say I know DocBook and I am willing to help with Fedora docs.) Would someone mind letting me know what the status is? -Jared Smith From jon at fedoraunity.org Tue Oct 2 02:23:57 2007 From: jon at fedoraunity.org (Jonathan Steffan) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2007 20:23:57 -0600 Subject: Plone to DocBook solution In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4701ABBD.4000707@fedoraunity.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jared Smith wrote: > Earlier this year I hear talk of a Plone solution designed to let > contributors write in Plone, and then have it converted to DocBook and > then go through a workflow where it would be edited, checked into CVS, > etc. > > I'm just curious where that ended up. (I know, most of you don't know > me from Adam, so who am I to be asking? Let's just say I know DocBook > and I am willing to help with Fedora docs.) Would someone mind > letting me know what the status is? It's still in the works. I've had some setbacks moving from Plone 2.5.3 to Plone 3 (as a Plone developer). I'll try my best to put together something for beta testing but I'd really like to look at some other unrelated changes Ive been playing with (mainly getting rid of the Makefiles). I'll try to put together an email with a score of suggestions to test the waters for where we could go with this. Right now the buildd (the daemon that interacts between plone and cvs) uses the existing Makefiles but requires them to be error free and also requires the innermost Makefile to be valid for building the document. It's very fragile to say the least. I'm working out a pure python based build system that will replace the Makefiles with simple/nice config files for each module, among other things. I'll try to send this email soon. Jonathan Steffan daMaestro -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHAau9rRJs5w2Gr1kRAmYsAKDFMR/JWPxAtiuHz5UVbqeIcTxL/gCg4IX3 ISCpX1zDbBrzjqGp21GDjfk= =bGiE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ruturaj at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 13:02:27 2007 From: ruturaj at gmail.com (Ruturaj) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 18:32:27 +0530 Subject: Numerics in Documentation Message-ID: <75a9cec80710020602h61d48a4bu68d4a2cf167460d0@mail.gmail.com> Hi, While translating the documentation, The generated HTML has got "Roman numerics" for the ordered listing numbering, eg. I see "24. ?????? ???????" Can there be a way to change that to "??. ?????? ???????" by putting numerics in some file/config ? -- regards, Ruturaj K. Vartak http://www.ruturaj.net From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 13:33:41 2007 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 09:33:41 -0400 Subject: Numerics in Documentation In-Reply-To: <75a9cec80710020602h61d48a4bu68d4a2cf167460d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <75a9cec80710020602h61d48a4bu68d4a2cf167460d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191332021.13400.8.camel@ignacio.lan> On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 18:32 +0530, Ruturaj wrote: > I see "24. ?????? ???????" > Can there be a way to change that to "??. ?????? ???????" by putting > numerics in some file/config ? Nope. http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3.1 http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1#list-style-type -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 2 14:08:07 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 10:08:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Numerics in Documentation In-Reply-To: <1191332021.13400.8.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <1670499.694421191334087995.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> ----- "Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams" wrote: > On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 18:32 +0530, Ruturaj wrote: > > I see "24. ?????? ???????" > > Can there be a way to change that to "??. ?????? ???????" by > putting > > numerics in some file/config ? > > Nope. > > http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.3.1 > http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS1#list-style-type CSS2 has some nice choices, however: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS2/generate.html#lists -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 2 14:13:25 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 10:13:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Plone to DocBook solution In-Reply-To: <4701ABBD.4000707@fedoraunity.org> Message-ID: <32693053.694781191334405994.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> ----- "Jonathan Steffan" wrote: > > It's still in the works. I've had some setbacks moving from Plone > 2.5.3 > to Plone 3 (as a Plone developer). I'll try my best to put together > something for beta testing but I'd really like to look at some other > unrelated changes Ive been playing with (mainly getting rid of the > Makefiles). I'll try to put together an email with a score of > suggestions to test the waters for where we could go with this. Right > now the buildd (the daemon that interacts between plone and cvs) uses > the existing Makefiles but requires them to be error free and also > requires the innermost Makefile to be valid for building the > document. > It's very fragile to say the least. I'm working out a pure python > based > build system that will replace the Makefiles with simple/nice config > files for each module, among other things. I'll try to send this email > soon. Recommend that you send that email *before* you do any coding. I'm not sure what is fragile to Plone about the Makefiles, but it sounds like you are suggesting to duplicate their actions entirely within Plone. Thereby making a duplicate, parallel system to understand and maintain. Unless you plan on personally porting changes from the Makefile into this new system $FOREVER ... it doesn't seem like a plan that can scale. We already are resource challenged taking care of just one toolchain. If the Makefiles in CVS have errors or are invalid, that is a larger problem than just Plone. Wouldn't the better solution be to fix the central Makefiles? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 2 14:20:04 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 10:20:04 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder - Today - 1600 Hrs GMT In-Reply-To: <1190384998.5175.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <19453946.695071191334804216.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> ----- "Paul W. Frields" wrote: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Scheduler > > Here's what I would suggest: > * Mark your initials (JB, PWF, etc.) in any box where you CAN'T > attend. > * Remember this is UTC! > * Once everyone's done, we try and pick a box where key contributors > CAN > attend (i.e. their initials don't appear in the box), and as few > other > initials appear as possible. Looks like we're getting some idea of what would work and not. Sunday seems to be the best day. Let's get Dimitris to weigh in and see where it goes. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 From marcos_mejia at caminf.com Tue Oct 2 14:39:17 2007 From: marcos_mejia at caminf.com (Marcos Mejia) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 10:39:17 -0400 Subject: opportunity. In-Reply-To: <1191262632.8924.2.camel@quarto.lan> References: <1191262632.8924.2.camel@quarto.lan> Message-ID: <000501c80502$08dd8d70$7109a8c0@cam.com> I am interested in knowing some software company in Brazil, which it wants to distribute applications in the ERP and the Banking sector. Regards, Marcos Mejia. Cam Informatica. From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 16:08:45 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:08:45 +0300 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder - Today - 1600 Hrs GMT In-Reply-To: <19453946.695071191334804216.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> References: <1190384998.5175.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <19453946.695071191334804216.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710020908m19b3c59dsb6d4ec23315e413d@mail.gmail.com> On 10/2/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > Looks like we're getting some idea of what would work and not. Sunday seems to be the best day. Let's get Dimitris to weigh in and see where it goes. +1 John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From jon at fedoraunity.org Tue Oct 2 17:57:01 2007 From: jon at fedoraunity.org (Jonathan Steffan) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 11:57:01 -0600 Subject: Plone to DocBook solution In-Reply-To: <32693053.694781191334405994.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> References: <32693053.694781191334405994.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4702866D.9040003@fedoraunity.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade wrote: > ----- "Jonathan Steffan" wrote: >> It's still in the works. I've had some setbacks moving from Plone >> 2.5.3 >> to Plone 3 (as a Plone developer). I'll try my best to put together >> something for beta testing but I'd really like to look at some other >> unrelated changes Ive been playing with (mainly getting rid of the >> Makefiles). I'll try to put together an email with a score of >> suggestions to test the waters for where we could go with this. Right >> now the buildd (the daemon that interacts between plone and cvs) uses >> the existing Makefiles but requires them to be error free and also >> requires the innermost Makefile to be valid for building the >> document. >> It's very fragile to say the least. I'm working out a pure python >> based >> build system that will replace the Makefiles with simple/nice config >> files for each module, among other things. I'll try to send this email >> soon. > > Recommend that you send that email *before* you do any coding. I'm not sure what is fragile to Plone about the Makefiles, > but it sounds like you are suggesting to duplicate their actions entirely within Plone. Actually, the changes I would like to make will not have anything to do with plone. Plone will just be able to trigger actions, in the same way a human would. Thereby making a duplicate, parallel system to understand and maintain. Well, this is already the case. There is static logic to find the innermost Makefile for the buildd (read: plone action) to actually work with > Unless you plan on personally porting changes from the Makefile into this new system $FOREVER ... it doesn't seem like a plan that can scale. No, I'd like to see a pure python based solution replace the Makefiles. > We already are resource challenged taking care of just one toolchain. Yes. I know. My thoughts on getting rid of the Makefiles has been from observing comments about how much of a PITA they are to work with. > If the Makefiles in CVS have errors or are invalid, that is a larger problem than just Plone. > Wouldn't the better solution be to fix the central Makefiles? I was proposing replacing the Makefiles. Jonathan Steffan daMaestro -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHAoZtrRJs5w2Gr1kRAjg7AJ0eA8550YVM6q/i4jxYLk6JyI7gGQCg4B2e h4UoFnRJqbqERQGONPe2/xM= =scFa -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jon at fedoraunity.org Tue Oct 2 18:02:54 2007 From: jon at fedoraunity.org (Jonathan Steffan) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:02:54 -0600 Subject: Plone to DocBook solution In-Reply-To: <4702866D.9040003@fedoraunity.org> References: <32693053.694781191334405994.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> <4702866D.9040003@fedoraunity.org> Message-ID: <470287CE.9030703@fedoraunity.org> Jonathan Steffan wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: >> ----- "Jonathan Steffan" wrote: >>> It's still in the works. I've had some setbacks moving from Plone >>> 2.5.3 >>> to Plone 3 (as a Plone developer). I'll try my best to put together >>> something for beta testing but I'd really like to look at some other >>> unrelated changes Ive been playing with (mainly getting rid of the >>> Makefiles). I'll try to put together an email with a score of >>> suggestions to test the waters for where we could go with this. Right >>> now the buildd (the daemon that interacts between plone and cvs) uses >>> the existing Makefiles but requires them to be error free and also >>> requires the innermost Makefile to be valid for building the >>> document. >>> It's very fragile to say the least. I'm working out a pure python >>> based >>> build system that will replace the Makefiles with simple/nice config >>> files for each module, among other things. I'll try to send this email >>> soon. >> Recommend that you send that email *before* you do any coding. I'm not sure what is fragile to Plone about the Makefiles, >> but it sounds like you are suggesting to duplicate their actions > entirely within Plone. > > Actually, the changes I would like to make will not have anything to do > with plone. Plone will just be able to trigger actions, in the same way > a human would. > > Thereby making a duplicate, parallel system to understand and maintain. > > Well, this is already the case. There is static logic to find the > innermost Makefile for the buildd (read: plone action) to actually work > with Hmm... thunderbird-- This already being the case: Changes to the way the Makefiles work would require changes in the logic of the buildd, albeit only a few functions. > >> Unless you plan on personally porting changes from the Makefile into this new system $FOREVER ... it doesn't seem like a plan that can scale. > > No, I'd like to see a pure python based solution replace the Makefiles. We have more in house python skills then any other; IMHO. > >> We already are resource challenged taking care of just one toolchain. > > Yes. I know. My thoughts on getting rid of the Makefiles has been from > observing comments about how much of a PITA they are to work with. > >> If the Makefiles in CVS have errors or are invalid, that is a larger problem than just Plone. >> Wouldn't the better solution be to fix the central Makefiles? > > I was proposing replacing the Makefiles. > > Jonathan Steffan > daMaestro > > From couf at skynet.be Tue Oct 2 18:31:06 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:31:06 +0200 Subject: [RFC] Fedora Training Message-ID: <1191349866.4840.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi guys, I'm sending this idea Paul and I came up with here to get some more traction for it. The "basic" idea behind training is to encourage people to get involved with the Fedora project they presenting them some easy to follow courses which they can follow at there own rate. This (perhaps) as a replacement to the current wiki-pages explaining people how to get involved. We could also add some basic and advanced user-oriented courses to aid our users to get to know the system better (might be a replacement for the DUG?) If the interest for this idea is big enough, we might start a SIG to make this more concrete. For more information and some possible ideas, see: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BartCouvreur/Training Comments, suggestions, all is welcome! Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Tue Oct 2 18:31:01 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:31:01 -0500 Subject: [RFC] Fedora Training In-Reply-To: <1191349866.4840.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1191349866.4840.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <47028E65.1040801@redhat.com> Bart Couvreur wrote: > Hi guys, > > I'm sending this idea Paul and I came up with here to get some more > traction for it. > > The "basic" idea behind training is to encourage people to get involved > with the Fedora project they presenting them some easy to follow courses > which they can follow at there own rate. This (perhaps) as a replacement > to the current wiki-pages explaining people how to get involved. > > We could also add some basic and advanced user-oriented courses to aid > our users to get to know the system better (might be a replacement for > the DUG?) > > If the interest for this idea is big enough, we might start a SIG to > make this more concrete. > > For more information and some possible ideas, see: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BartCouvreur/Training > > Comments, suggestions, all is welcome! > I think training is a good idea, I did one training session for puppet over VOIP - http://mmcgrath.fedorapeople.org/PuppetTraining.ogg http://mmcgrath.fedorapeople.org/PuppetTraining.odp With a little more polish I think it'd be very useful. -Mike From couf at skynet.be Tue Oct 2 18:39:33 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:39:33 +0200 Subject: AntonioSilva (matlou) In-Reply-To: <1191262632.8924.2.camel@quarto.lan> References: <1191262632.8924.2.camel@quarto.lan> Message-ID: <1191350373.4840.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op maandag 01-10-2007 om 19:17 uur [tijdzone +0100], schreef Ant?nio Duarte Filipe da Silva: > Hi there, my name is Ant?nio Duarte Filipe da Silva, I'm 33 years old > and I live in Coruche, a small village in Portugal. Hi and welcome Ant?nio, > > Until 5 years ago I used to work in a IT firm in Lisbon but now I'm a > free-lancer / entrepreneur with some spare time on my hands which I'd > like to use to help Fedora in any way I can. > > I owe a lot to Fedora given the fact that I use it since Fedora Core 1 > when I joined together a router out of a Pentium 100, a speedtouch adsl > modem and an internal pci hub :) It worked quite well. Very nice :-) > > I haven't contributed to any open source project yet mainly due to lack > of time. I usually look at myself as a "rusty developer" and I think I > can help with translations to Portuguese (pt_PT) as well as any > documentation for now while I start looking for some other tasks as I > move along and get more used to the whole process of contributing. You might be interested in the L10N-project then as well! Take a look at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Join Translation of docs is documented on this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks for a list of tasks we have set for ourselves. > > Hope I can bring something good to the project. > Thanks to glezos for sponsoring me :) Again welcome and feel free to ask questions if you've got any (mailing list or pop in at #fedora-docs) Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 18:36:45 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:36:45 -0400 Subject: Release announcement - Call for volunteers! In-Reply-To: <1191085048.3620.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1190849049.21154.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7a41c4bc0709270006u307755d5ld9c67605a437de3e@mail.gmail.com> <46FBBADD.6060608@fedoraproject.org> <1191014446.3691.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <23b1fe6e0709282200u82853f0q8a7eb0c8b6dade92@mail.gmail.com> <46FDFCCF.1020002@fedoraproject.org> <7a41c4bc0709290809k16914274v9f00af39963fb49f@mail.gmail.com> <1191085048.3620.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1191350205.32281.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-09-29 at 12:57 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-09-29 at 16:09 +0100, Paulo Santos wrote: > > Sorry guys, i got a bit busy in RL work, thats why i didnt reply to > > it. > > I wont have much time until the end of next week, so if anyone can do > > this, it would be appreciated :) > > There you go -- have at it! It would probably be good if you can > produce a draft by Monday evening. We would have to check it, comment, > and finalize before release so you need to plan time for that. Thanks > for volunteering! Sorry to reply to myself, but Jesse Keating just dropped the following late-breaking info in #fedora-docs: 14:20 < f13> stickster_work: hey, there are a couple hot items for the release announcement of test3. 1) if your install method was DVD (maybe even nfs iso) pirut may crash when you run it with a traceback about HAL. Dropping to the console and yum upgrading at least pirut should fix this. 14:20 < f13> 2) knetworkmanager is not functional, but it is known to not be functional and will be fixed/replaced before F8 final. Jason, could you confirm that you'll have these in the draft announcement tonight*? You can post it on the wiki under, say: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F8Test3/ReleaseAnnouncement Or an equally good or better place of your choosing. :-) Thanks for volunteering to do this. P.S. We should *not* put these in the Release Notes at Docs/Beats since they are hopefully ephemeral issues. P.P.S. *I know I said Monday night originally, but it's going out Thursday morning, so tonight would work. Please leave us about 24 hours to nitpick on it before it goes out, thanks! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 18:36:45 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:36:45 -0400 Subject: Release announcement - Call for volunteers! In-Reply-To: <1191085048.3620.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1190849049.21154.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7a41c4bc0709270006u307755d5ld9c67605a437de3e@mail.gmail.com> <46FBBADD.6060608@fedoraproject.org> <1191014446.3691.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <23b1fe6e0709282200u82853f0q8a7eb0c8b6dade92@mail.gmail.com> <46FDFCCF.1020002@fedoraproject.org> <7a41c4bc0709290809k16914274v9f00af39963fb49f@mail.gmail.com> <1191085048.3620.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1191350205.32281.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2007-09-29 at 12:57 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, 2007-09-29 at 16:09 +0100, Paulo Santos wrote: > > Sorry guys, i got a bit busy in RL work, thats why i didnt reply to > > it. > > I wont have much time until the end of next week, so if anyone can do > > this, it would be appreciated :) > > There you go -- have at it! It would probably be good if you can > produce a draft by Monday evening. We would have to check it, comment, > and finalize before release so you need to plan time for that. Thanks > for volunteering! Sorry to reply to myself, but Jesse Keating just dropped the following late-breaking info in #fedora-docs: 14:20 < f13> stickster_work: hey, there are a couple hot items for the release announcement of test3. 1) if your install method was DVD (maybe even nfs iso) pirut may crash when you run it with a traceback about HAL. Dropping to the console and yum upgrading at least pirut should fix this. 14:20 < f13> 2) knetworkmanager is not functional, but it is known to not be functional and will be fixed/replaced before F8 final. Jason, could you confirm that you'll have these in the draft announcement tonight*? You can post it on the wiki under, say: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F8Test3/ReleaseAnnouncement Or an equally good or better place of your choosing. :-) Thanks for volunteering to do this. P.S. We should *not* put these in the Release Notes at Docs/Beats since they are hopefully ephemeral issues. P.P.S. *I know I said Monday night originally, but it's going out Thursday morning, so tonight would work. Please leave us about 24 hours to nitpick on it before it goes out, thanks! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From couf at skynet.be Tue Oct 2 18:48:01 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:48:01 +0200 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder - Today - 1600 Hrs GMT In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710020908m19b3c59dsb6d4ec23315e413d@mail.gmail.com> References: <1190384998.5175.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <19453946.695071191334804216.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> <9d2c731f0710020908m19b3c59dsb6d4ec23315e413d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191350881.4840.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op dinsdag 02-10-2007 om 19:08 uur [tijdzone +0300], schreef John Babich: > On 10/2/07, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > Looks like we're getting some idea of what would work and not. Sunday seems to be the best day. Let's get Dimitris to weigh in and see where it goes. > > +1 > > John Babich > Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project Sunday seems to be the best day (back to the old ages). It might be useful to try and have a meeting this Sunday, due to F8 release in a month. Let's get our noses aligned and create a tasklist with our todo's for the coming month! Say Sunday 17:00 UTC? Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 19:00:35 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 22:00:35 +0300 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder - Today - 1600 Hrs GMT In-Reply-To: <1191350881.4840.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1190384998.5175.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <19453946.695071191334804216.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> <9d2c731f0710020908m19b3c59dsb6d4ec23315e413d@mail.gmail.com> <1191350881.4840.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710021200j6bc42fc6ua526ab0d20114931@mail.gmail.com> On 10/2/07, Bart Couvreur wrote: > > It might be useful to try and have a meeting this Sunday, due to F8 > release in a month. Let's get our noses aligned and create a tasklist > with our todo's for the coming month! > > Say Sunday 17:00 UTC? > +1 I'll update the meeting page - it can always be changed if needed. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Wiki Editor From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 2 20:06:56 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 01:36:56 +0530 Subject: Release announcement - Call for volunteers! In-Reply-To: <1191350205.32281.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1190849049.21154.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7a41c4bc0709270006u307755d5ld9c67605a437de3e@mail.gmail.com> <46FBBADD.6060608@fedoraproject.org> <1191014446.3691.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <23b1fe6e0709282200u82853f0q8a7eb0c8b6dade92@mail.gmail.com> <46FDFCCF.1020002@fedoraproject.org> <7a41c4bc0709290809k16914274v9f00af39963fb49f@mail.gmail.com> <1191085048.3620.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1191350205.32281.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4702A4E0.3080808@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Sorry to reply to myself, but Jesse Keating just dropped the following > late-breaking info in #fedora-docs: > > 14:20 < f13> stickster_work: hey, there are a couple hot items for the > release announcement of test3. 1) if your install method was DVD (maybe > even nfs iso) pirut may crash when you run it with a traceback about > HAL. Dropping to the console and yum upgrading at least pirut should > fix this. > 14:20 < f13> 2) knetworkmanager is not functional, but it is known to > not be functional and will be fixed/replaced before F8 final. We need bug reports associated with this to keep track of them. If you are going to list bugs in any announcement, do ensure that you provide bugzilla links. Rahul From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 20:18:00 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 16:18:00 -0400 Subject: Release announcement - Call for volunteers! In-Reply-To: <4702A4E0.3080808@fedoraproject.org> References: <1190849049.21154.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <7a41c4bc0709270006u307755d5ld9c67605a437de3e@mail.gmail.com> <46FBBADD.6060608@fedoraproject.org> <1191014446.3691.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <23b1fe6e0709282200u82853f0q8a7eb0c8b6dade92@mail.gmail.com> <46FDFCCF.1020002@fedoraproject.org> <7a41c4bc0709290809k16914274v9f00af39963fb49f@mail.gmail.com> <1191085048.3620.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1191350205.32281.17.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4702A4E0.3080808@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <23b1fe6e0710021318h1ab6b701p94db6dba77aeb917@mail.gmail.com> yup, working on that now....my laptop crashed had to get to a different computer...nothing is ever easy... :) -Jason On 10/2/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > Sorry to reply to myself, but Jesse Keating just dropped the following > > late-breaking info in #fedora-docs: > > > > 14:20 < f13> stickster_work: hey, there are a couple hot items for the > > release announcement of test3. 1) if your install method was DVD (maybe > > even nfs iso) pirut may crash when you run it with a traceback about > > HAL. Dropping to the console and yum upgrading at least pirut should > > fix this. > > 14:20 < f13> 2) knetworkmanager is not functional, but it is known to > > not be functional and will be fixed/replaced before F8 final. > > We need bug reports associated with this to keep track of them. If you > are going to list bugs in any announcement, do ensure that you provide > bugzilla links. > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 21:12:20 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 17:12:20 -0400 Subject: Release Announcement Message-ID: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> Okay, had to redo the changes since the save didn't go through as my laptop bombed. For review: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F8Test3/ReleaseAnnouncement -Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 2 21:30:30 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 03:00:30 +0530 Subject: Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> References: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4702B876.8080108@fedoraproject.org> Jason Taylor wrote: > Okay, had to redo the changes since the save didn't go through as my > laptop bombed. For review: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F8Test3/ReleaseAnnouncement I made several changes. Explain things more, use references and also avoid abbreviations like FC8Test3 in announcements or any documentation meant for a broad audience. We are still missing information on what has changed in between test 2 and test 3 and the published release notes will not have that information either. Rahul From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Tue Oct 2 23:20:15 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2007 19:20:15 -0400 Subject: Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <4702B876.8080108@fedoraproject.org> References: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> <4702B876.8080108@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <23b1fe6e0710021620i3790db48q3fabeed2ed81ca17@mail.gmail.com> I never heard back from the release engineering folks and I looked through various developer lists but was unable to find anything that tracked major changes, there are a ton of minor changes to packages but as far as anything major changing...There a specific place that tracks this sort of thing... -Jason On 10/2/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Jason Taylor wrote: > > Okay, had to redo the changes since the save didn't go through as my > > laptop bombed. For review: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F8Test3/ReleaseAnnouncement > > I made several changes. Explain things more, use references and also > avoid abbreviations like FC8Test3 in announcements or any documentation > meant for a broad audience. > > We are still missing information on what has changed in between test 2 > and test 3 and the published release notes will not have that > information either. > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 2 23:18:02 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 04:48:02 +0530 Subject: Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <23b1fe6e0710021620i3790db48q3fabeed2ed81ca17@mail.gmail.com> References: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> <4702B876.8080108@fedoraproject.org> <23b1fe6e0710021620i3790db48q3fabeed2ed81ca17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4702D1AA.3010201@fedoraproject.org> Jason Taylor wrote: > I never heard back from the release engineering folks and I looked > through various developer lists but was unable to find anything that > tracked major changes, there are a ton of minor changes to packages but > as far as anything major changing...There a specific place that tracks > this sort of thing... I am going to try something else. I will drop a mail to fedora-devel list asking for input now. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 00:58:10 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 20:58:10 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder - Today - 1600 Hrs GMT In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710021200j6bc42fc6ua526ab0d20114931@mail.gmail.com> References: <1190384998.5175.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <19453946.695071191334804216.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> <9d2c731f0710020908m19b3c59dsb6d4ec23315e413d@mail.gmail.com> <1191350881.4840.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0710021200j6bc42fc6ua526ab0d20114931@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191373090.4575.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 22:00 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On 10/2/07, Bart Couvreur wrote: > > > > It might be useful to try and have a meeting this Sunday, due to F8 > > release in a month. Let's get our noses aligned and create a tasklist > > with our todo's for the coming month! > > > > Say Sunday 17:00 UTC? > > > +1 > > I'll update the meeting page - it can always be changed if needed. +1. I just looked at this page last night and am glad everyone else was too! :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 01:07:01 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2007 21:07:01 -0400 Subject: Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <23b1fe6e0710021620i3790db48q3fabeed2ed81ca17@mail.gmail.com> References: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> <4702B876.8080108@fedoraproject.org> <23b1fe6e0710021620i3790db48q3fabeed2ed81ca17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191373621.4575.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 19:20 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > I never heard back from the release engineering folks and I looked > through various developer lists but was unable to find anything that > tracked major changes, there are a ton of minor changes to packages > but as far as anything major changing...There a specific place that > tracks this sort of thing... If possible, Jason, try and post your replies at the bottom of a thread, to make it easier to read the discussion as it goes along. I would like to make one suggestion -- let's not start the announcement with a list of bugs. Not necessarily putting our best foot forward! The test2 release announcement is here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2007-September/msg00002.html I think that is more along the lines of what release engineers are looking for. It might make more sense to direct people to the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common page and track these bugs there, so anything not fixed by F8 GA will already be in place on that page. That's the same namespacing we have used in previous releases. Also, note we have this page for use in the final Fedora 8 release announcement: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/ReleaseAnnouncements It needs to be updated from F7 to F8. Are you (or is anyone) interested in taking charge of this page, updating the schedule for F8, mailing other lists as appropriate to notify them of content, and generally tracking the tasks listed on that page? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 07:53:32 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 03:53:32 -0400 Subject: Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <1191373621.4575.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> <4702B876.8080108@fedoraproject.org> <23b1fe6e0710021620i3790db48q3fabeed2ed81ca17@mail.gmail.com> <1191373621.4575.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <23b1fe6e0710030053k630ae85bpc69bd58ce3f2a461@mail.gmail.com> On 10/2/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 19:20 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > > I never heard back from the release engineering folks and I looked > > through various developer lists but was unable to find anything that > > tracked major changes, there are a ton of minor changes to packages > > but as far as anything major changing...There a specific place that > > tracks this sort of thing... > > If possible, Jason, try and post your replies at the bottom of a thread, > to make it easier to read the discussion as it goes along. > > I would like to make one suggestion -- let's not start the announcement > with a list of bugs. Not necessarily putting our best foot forward! > The test2 release announcement is here: > > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2007-September/msg00002.html > > I think that is more along the lines of what release engineers are > looking for. It might make more sense to direct people to the > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common page and track these bugs > there, so anything not fixed by F8 GA will already be in place on that > page. That's the same namespacing we have used in previous releases. > > Also, note we have this page for use in the final Fedora 8 release > announcement: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/ReleaseAnnouncements > > It needs to be updated from F7 to F8. Are you (or is anyone) interested > in taking charge of this page, updating the schedule for F8, mailing > other lists as appropriate to notify them of content, and generally > tracking the tasks listed on that page? The idea was once I had the list of new packages and/or changes compiled that would go at the top of the list. I could possibly take care of the ReleaseAnnouncements page, what kind of time frame? -Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 12:04:45 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 08:04:45 -0400 Subject: Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <23b1fe6e0710030053k630ae85bpc69bd58ce3f2a461@mail.gmail.com> References: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> <4702B876.8080108@fedoraproject.org> <23b1fe6e0710021620i3790db48q3fabeed2ed81ca17@mail.gmail.com> <1191373621.4575.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <23b1fe6e0710030053k630ae85bpc69bd58ce3f2a461@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191413085.4575.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 03:53 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > > > On 10/2/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 19:20 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > > I never heard back from the release engineering folks and I > looked > > through various developer lists but was unable to find > anything that > > tracked major changes, there are a ton of minor changes to > packages > > but as far as anything major changing...There a specific > place that > > tracks this sort of thing... > > If possible, Jason, try and post your replies at the bottom of > a thread, > to make it easier to read the discussion as it goes along. > > I would like to make one suggestion -- let's not start the > announcement > with a list of bugs. Not necessarily putting our best foot > forward! > The test2 release announcement is here: > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2007-September/msg00002.html > > I think that is more along the lines of what release engineers > are > looking for. It might make more sense to direct people to the > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common page and track > these bugs > there, so anything not fixed by F8 GA will already be in place > on that > page. That's the same namespacing we have used in previous > releases. > > Also, note we have this page for use in the final Fedora 8 > release > announcement: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/ReleaseAnnouncements > > It needs to be updated from F7 to F8. Are you (or is anyone) > interested > in taking charge of this page, updating the schedule for F8, > mailing > other lists as appropriate to notify them of content, and > generally > tracking the tasks listed on that page? > > The idea was once I had the list of new packages and/or changes > compiled that would go at the top of the list. I could possibly take > care of the ReleaseAnnouncements page, what kind of time frame? Super! As for the time frame for ReleaseAnnouncements -- according to the page itself, the talking points for F7 were ready about 8 days before the release date, so that should give you some idea. Does that sound doable to you? And I apologize in advance for being a netiquette nazi, but if you could post in plain ASCII text, it would help the many subscribers we have who aren't using GUI mail readers. If you're using the Gmail interface to read and send mail, you'll find there's a "Plain text" button above the editor which should allow you to send messages in the proper format. You can toggle this back and forth for other uses, of course. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 3 16:45:17 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 12:45:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [RFC] Fedora Training In-Reply-To: <1191349866.4840.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <22493414.728821191429917281.JavaMail.root@zimbra-pilot.corp.redhat.com> ----- "Bart Couvreur" wrote: > This (perhaps) as a replacement > to the current wiki-pages explaining people how to get involved. [...and...] > We could also add some basic and advanced user-oriented courses to > aid > our users to get to know the system better (might be a replacement > for > the DUG?) I like these ideas, but I think there is a significant difference between the hassles involved. That is, screencasts/training of how to get involved in Fedora is a smaller, more forgiving audience who are self-selecting and therefore more willing to deal with one-off, throw-away training. The audience for a DUG replacement is going to be much more difficult to make happy and the content is going to be much more difficult to create and maintain. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Wed Oct 3 21:14:05 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Wed, 3 Oct 2007 17:14:05 -0400 Subject: Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <1191413085.4575.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> <4702B876.8080108@fedoraproject.org> <23b1fe6e0710021620i3790db48q3fabeed2ed81ca17@mail.gmail.com> <1191373621.4575.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <23b1fe6e0710030053k630ae85bpc69bd58ce3f2a461@mail.gmail.com> <1191413085.4575.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <23b1fe6e0710031414h5aacce0ey3202ca26d72e7898@mail.gmail.com> On 10/3/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2007-10-03 at 03:53 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > > > > > > On 10/2/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-10-02 at 19:20 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > > > I never heard back from the release engineering folks and I > > looked > > > through various developer lists but was unable to find > > anything that > > > tracked major changes, there are a ton of minor changes to > > packages > > > but as far as anything major changing...There a specific > > place that > > > tracks this sort of thing... > > > > If possible, Jason, try and post your replies at the bottom of > > a thread, > > to make it easier to read the discussion as it goes along. > > > > I would like to make one suggestion -- let's not start the > > announcement > > with a list of bugs. Not necessarily putting our best foot > > forward! > > The test2 release announcement is here: > > > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-announce-list/2007-September/msg00002.html > > > > I think that is more along the lines of what release engineers > > are > > looking for. It might make more sense to direct people to the > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F8Common page and track > > these bugs > > there, so anything not fixed by F8 GA will already be in place > > on that > > page. That's the same namespacing we have used in previous > > releases. > > > > Also, note we have this page for use in the final Fedora 8 > > release > > announcement: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/ReleaseAnnouncements > > > > It needs to be updated from F7 to F8. Are you (or is anyone) > > interested > > in taking charge of this page, updating the schedule for F8, > > mailing > > other lists as appropriate to notify them of content, and > > generally > > tracking the tasks listed on that page? > > > > The idea was once I had the list of new packages and/or changes > > compiled that would go at the top of the list. I could possibly take > > care of the ReleaseAnnouncements page, what kind of time frame? > > Super! As for the time frame for ReleaseAnnouncements -- according to > the page itself, the talking points for F7 were ready about 8 days > before the release date, so that should give you some idea. Does that > sound doable to you? > > And I apologize in advance for being a netiquette nazi, but if you could > post in plain ASCII text, it would help the many subscribers we have who > aren't using GUI mail readers. If you're using the Gmail interface to > read and send mail, you'll find there's a "Plain text" button above the > editor which should allow you to send messages in the proper format. > You can toggle this back and forth for other uses, of course. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > I got a couple of new projects at work. Unfortunately that means I don't know how much time I will have for this now. Be more than happy to help where I can just not sure I should take the whole page as I haven't been able to take a good look at everything involved. -Jason From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 4 00:19:11 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2007 20:19:11 -0400 Subject: Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <23b1fe6e0710031414h5aacce0ey3202ca26d72e7898@mail.gmail.com> References: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> <4702B876.8080108@fedoraproject.org> <23b1fe6e0710021620i3790db48q3fabeed2ed81ca17@mail.gmail.com> <1191373621.4575.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <23b1fe6e0710030053k630ae85bpc69bd58ce3f2a461@mail.gmail.com> <1191413085.4575.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <23b1fe6e0710031414h5aacce0ey3202ca26d72e7898@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191457151.4575.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> I see that there are a lot of changes to the release announcement, which looks great. Rahul, if you're going to include any of this material in the OverView beat, it would be good to get those changes in now so translators have plenty of time to work on it. We are trying to minimize the number of new strings being sent to them at the last minute before F8 GA. Thanks for helping with this. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 18:26:18 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 14:26:18 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-10-07 IRC log Message-ID: <1191781578.3879.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> 12:59 -!- stickster changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Documentation -- Oct 7, 1700-1800 UTC -=- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject 13:00 * stickster checks agenda on wiki to see if there's any 13:00 * couf present 13:00 < jmbuser> John Babich 13:00 < stickster> and moi 13:01 < stickster> OK, we can keep this short and sweet by sticking to the agenda for now 13:01 < jmbuser> +1 13:01 < stickster> Does anyone have an objection to me chairing in quaid's absence? 13:01 < stickster> I know he wouldn't. :-D 13:01 < couf> stickster: have at it 13:01 < jmbuser> go for it 13:02 < stickster> OK, for all intents and purposes, I'm using this as a "catch-up" meeting. 13:02 < stickster> I have missed many of the previous ones due to the scheduling conflict with $DAYJOB, for which I apologize 13:02 < stickster> Water under the bridge. 13:03 -!- stickster changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Documentation -- Oct 7, 1700-1800 UTC -=- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -=- TOPIC: F8 Docs status 13:03 < couf> we all need some catching up 13:03 < stickster> OK, the "core" documentation is still the release notes and the installation guide, both of which I have kept up with fairly well. We are on target for all the translation dates. 13:03 < stickster> We are mournfully absent any updates on other stuff AFAIK though 13:04 < stickster> Does anyone have other docs status? DUG? Anything? 13:04 < couf> translation quick start guide has been updated, that's all I know 13:04 < couf> john dropped 13:04 < couf> jmbuser: jinx 13:05 -!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 81 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 80 normal] 13:05 * jmbuser is back 13:06 * stickster just filled jmbuser in 13:06 < jmbuser> I am trying to boot up F8T3 to perhaps revive the DUG, but am having trouble 13:07 < jmbuser> Thia has nothing to do with the drops, BTW 13:07 < stickster> sure 13:07 < jmbuser> s / Thia / This / 13:07 * stickster recommends using some sort of virtualization for doing testing 13:08 < stickster> That way you decouple (for the most part) hardware discrepancies from having a test environment available 13:08 < jmbuser> stickster: good idea 13:08 < jmbuser> stickster: Does QEMU work well for that? 13:08 < stickster> I use VMWare (not a FOSS product) because my office pays for it. You also have KVM/qemu, Xen, and VirtualBox I believe 13:09 < stickster> Yes, it's a bit slow but less so for Linux on Linux IIRC 13:09 < stickster> I thought with modern KVM and Xen you can get near-hardware speed for a Linux guest running on a Linux host 13:09 < jmbuser> I'm using QEMU for OLPC image and it works fine with my 2GB RAM 13:09 < stickster> There you go then 13:09 < couf> anyway, major thank you to stickster for keeping up with our core docs 13:10 < jmbuser> +1 13:10 < stickster> Well, I would certainly not object to people jumping in and helping, I don't own them or anything (well, maybe in name only) 13:10 < jmbuser> stickster: I have a big chunk of time in a few days 13:10 < stickster> One way to help is to either watch wiki pages on Docs/Beats/* or subscribe to the relnotes content feed via email to see when changes are made 13:11 < stickster> Then you can simply port in changes to the XML in CVS. Things are harder when we first capture the content, but if we stay on top of it, incremental changes are very very easy to do, and take only a few minutes a day at most. 13:11 < jmbuser> stickster: Perhaps we can have a private chat (or public) and you can walk me through a few things 13:12 < stickster> Absolutely... I will be around for about an hour after the meeting, then gone for several 13:12 < jmbuser> stickster: great 13:12 < couf> I'm wondering: stickster what do you find the best: editing text in xml, or wiki? 13:13 < stickster> I confess to not loving the wiki. 13:13 * couf thinking about a divide & conqueor idea 13:13 < stickster> For some things it's good, others not so much. 13:13 < stickster> It's good for contributions, not good for upkeep. 13:13 < couf> indeed 13:14 < stickster> Our Plone timeline seems to be stretching out again... Our Plone helper, Jon, decided at some point that he needed Plone 3 for some reason, which dragged in a bunch of other development baggage which is slowing him down AFAICT 13:14 < couf> 1/2 of us try to keep xml and wiki synced, you could edit in xml (as I'm not by far a good editor)? 13:14 < stickster> I don't know why he needed it, but I respect his decision so I guess we won't have Plone for some time. 13:15 < stickster> couf: Actually, the editing is not so hard -- I usually do that on the Wiki where lots of people see the changes 13:15 < jmbuser> +1 13:15 < stickster> Then I take the diff of changes and apply that to XML in CVS 13:15 < stickster> It's not really automated, that was what Plone is supposed to solve for us. 13:15 < couf> or vice versa :-) 13:16 * couf just thinking something to take some load off your back 13:16 < stickster> My load's not superheavy, but it would help if we had other guides really moving forward. 13:16 < stickster> We seriously need a DUG and an AdminGudie 13:17 < stickster> *Guide 13:17 < stickster> Whcih brings us to the next topic. 13:17 < jmbuser> I'm sticking my neck out for reviving the DUG 13:17 < stickster> That would be super 13:18 < couf> that leaves AG for me :-) 13:18 < stickster> That brings us to... 13:18 -!- stickster changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Documentation -- Oct 7, 1700-1800 UTC -=- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -=- TOPIC: Activating New Contributors 13:19 * glezos jumps in 13:19 < stickster> Please do! 13:19 < jmbuser> glezos: Greetings 13:19 < stickster> Something I've noticed over the last months is that we've developed many disparate task lists and no way to track any of them effectively. 13:20 < stickster> So many tracking options leads to confusion. I personally believe simplicity makes it easier for a newcomer to master basic project skills. 13:20 < stickster> That's why I prefer to use Bugzilla, since it's what everyone else in the project uses. 13:21 < stickster> If Fedora as a whole were to switch to something else, I'd do that. 13:21 < stickster> This is just my US $0.02 -- what do you guys think about this issue? 13:22 < couf> I tend to agree, for stuff in CVS 13:22 < jmbuser> Is it usable for tracking doc progress? 13:22 < jmbuser> I'm willing to give a try 13:22 < stickster> Well, that depends on what docs you're talking about. 13:22 < couf> wiki drafting is somewhat strange to keep in Bugzilla, seems to be double work 13:23 < stickster> If a doc is being drafted on the wiki, there's no point in using any bug tracking -- people should just scrawl on the doc on the wiki without permission 13:23 < stickster> The point of the community wiki is for people to free and just mess around. 13:23 < stickster> However, BZ is good for not just CVS doc issue tracking, but also project work tracking too. 13:24 < couf> ah, important distinction +1 13:25 < stickster> So if there are tasks to be done, they can be tracked there as well, against our "project-tracking" component 13:25 < stickster> There's also a generic "docs-requests" component for "I'd like a XXX tutorial" 13:26 * stickster feels like he's lecturing too much for a meeting, would like other people to express their concerns, love, hate, etc... :-) 13:27 * jmbuser is absorbing words of wisdom :-) 13:27 < couf> the thing is, we're going to have to change a lot of wiki-pages again, which will bring confusion, imo 13:28 < couf> otoh we've doing that for say the last 10 months, so way not :) 13:28 < jmbuser> change is good - you go first 13:30 * jmbuser injects wisdom from a Dilbert t-shirt 13:30 < stickster> jmbuser: That's a pretty wise and cutting remark 13:30 < couf> so what would we define as project-tracking stuff? 13:30 < EvilBob> Hi All 13:30 < stickster> Hi EvilBob! 13:30 < jmbuser> Hi 13:30 < stickster> Project tracking, hmmm.... things like the work currently shown on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks? 13:31 < stickster> Some of that needs to be culled. 13:31 < stickster> We've been vigilant in the past about hoarding all these tasks and not forgetting any of them. 13:31 < stickster> However, almost none of them are being done. 13:31 < couf> true that 13:32 < jmbuser> +1 13:32 < stickster> Here's a suggestion I'm going to throw on the table for you guys to chew up and spit out: Take all tasks not being done and throw them away. 13:32 < stickster> We eliminate all these pages and start fresh in some way that everyone agrees on. 13:32 < jmbuser> Oh goody, a purge :-) 13:32 < stickster> OK, tear it apart ye scurvy dogs! 13:33 < jmbuser> Should we wait for the meeting to be over? 13:33 < stickster> Well, I mean, let's tear apart that idea. 13:33 < stickster> Assume that idea sucks and that I'm a moron for suggesting it. 13:33 < stickster> (Probability studies show you'd be right, I'm thinking.) 13:33 < jmbuser> oh 13:34 < stickster> So what makes that idea suck? 13:34 < jmbuser> I second the motion for a clean slate 13:34 < couf> the fact that we "know" what tasks we need to do 13:34 < couf> and we might forget a tn 13:34 < couf> s/tn/ton 13:35 < stickster> jmbuser: Nope, you don't get off that easy :-) You have to rip me a new one! 13:35 < jmbuser> ok, prioritize 13:35 < jmbuser> 1. Release Notes 13:36 < couf> damm, had an answer ready for him :-) 13:37 < couf> the real problem here is getting people to understand what the task actually is about 13:38 < stickster> couf: So we're not communicating well in terms of explaining how to do something? 13:39 < couf> stickster: yeah, my 0.02cts 13:39 < stickster> Yup, I'll pay you US $1 for it too 13:39 < stickster> Oops jmbuser appears to have dropped again 13:40 -!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 83 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 82 normal] 13:40 < couf> the place where we put the info isn't important, but more the *how-to* behind it 13:40 < stickster> couf: So, I'm going to argue with you about this -- not because you're wrong, but to see if there's more we're not exploring 13:41 < couf> sure 13:41 < stickster> Is a task worth doing in a community project, if no one wants to do it? 13:42 < couf> who knows? at any time someone could jump in and get it done, does that mean we should erase the task? 13:43 < stickster> Right, but if they need to know a bunch of other information to perform that task, and that's not documented either, how serious are we about wanting that task done? 13:43 < stickster> Especially since we are the docs project :-) 13:44 < couf> indeed, that means we're defining "this-needs-to-be-done-once" type of tasks but we don't really know how to start it ourselves? 13:45 < stickster> Right 13:45 * jmbuser won't be doing the minutes 13:45 < stickster> haha! 13:45 < couf> in other words, is everyone in docs on the same page? 13:45 < stickster> That's a very good question. The list is generally where we try and argue these things out, but it's not happening of late. 13:46 < stickster> We should maybe take this philosophical argument there where people can chew on it. 13:46 < jmbuser> +1 13:46 < stickster> I might be tempted to argue that "this needs to be done" without anyone knowing how, or by whom, is effectively clogging up our task list. 13:47 < couf> that's what I'm thinking too 13:47 < stickster> If we want to encourage people to join and help, there are two things we should pursue: 1. easier task finding with explanations, and 2. fewer tasks that mean more. 13:47 < stickster> sorry, 2. fewer, more meaningful tasks.. 13:48 < stickster> So maybe what we need is selective culling 13:48 < stickster> Find the things that are nebulous and unlikely to pick up steam, and drop them for now. 13:48 < couf> right 13:48 < stickster> OK, this makes good fodder for the list, anyone object to taking it up there/ 13:48 < jmbuser> Did anyone catch what I was saying before or did I get cuf off by my ISP? 13:49 < jmbuser> s / cuf / cut / 13:49 < stickster> jmbuser: We saw 1. Release Notes 13:49 < jmbuser> 2. IG 13:49 < jmbuser> 3. Admin Guide 13:49 < jmbuser> 4. DUG 13:49 < jmbuser> and pretty much stay focused on them for now. 13:49 < jmbuser> Comments? 13:50 < couf> hmm, we've been trying that approach for some time now, is it working? 13:50 * couf bites the idea 13:50 < stickster> That depends on the value of "working" 13:51 < jmbuser> Release Notes are pretty amazing 13:51 < stickster> Community projects succeed when people work on what they enjoy, and are effective at it 13:51 < couf> working as in "getting results" 13:51 < couf> ah right, good point 13:51 < stickster> Think about how a meeting runs. If everyone spends the whole meeting tossing out a thousand different ideas without ownership or direction, you end up with a crappy meeting 13:52 < stickster> If we concentrate on doing what we're doing well, and work on that to make it so good that people want to help, then we can branch out 13:52 < jmbuser> +1 13:52 < stickster> I wonder if our zeal made us start tossing around too many ideas to ever get done, and then we try and do them all, and when we fail, we hit ourselves over the head and think we're doing a terrible job 13:53 < stickster> We need to start encouraging a culture of success in our project. 13:53 < stickster> If that means cutting back on our goals, then we should do that. 13:53 < couf> definitly 13:53 < jmbuser> agreed 13:54 < stickster> Interestingly, quaid and I both got mad at Rahul when he suggested this exactly -- not because what he said was wrong, but in the way he said it. 13:54 < couf> rephrazing can have a miraculous result 13:54 < couf> and there goes jmbuser 13:55 -!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 83 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 82 normal] 13:56 < stickster> Well, I would encourage people to work on our DUG and AdminG then 13:56 < stickster> Don't fib to yourselves that it's not hard work, it's very hard work to just write these docs 13:56 < stickster> And if it's half-done, we're going to publish it anyway, and let people file bugs. 13:56 < jmbuser> I can attest to that 13:57 < stickster> And when the bugs start rolling in, that gives us the ideas for what to do next. 13:57 < stickster> That's helped me a lot with the IG 13:57 < jmbuser> +1 on half-baked, serve it anyway 13:57 < jmbuser> maybe a better cook will jump in 13:57 < stickster> We'll check, of course, that what's in there is technically correct -- but if there are topics left out, so be it 13:58 < couf> right, I think we can agree on this, seems fair enough 13:58 < jmbuser> +1 13:58 * jmbuser orders dinner 13:58 < stickster> We had training on the agenda, but I think there's a group after us in this room 13:58 < stickster> couf: Can we keep baking this idea until next time? 13:58 < couf> Yeah sure 13:59 < couf> we've got half an hour to go 13:59 < jmbuser> recipe sounds delicious 13:59 < stickster> Oh! 13:59 < couf> jmbuser: you're welcome to cook :) 14:00 < stickster> Well, we can continue if you guys want 14:00 < jmbuser> I'm digging in 14:00 < jmbuser> stickster: re-reading Fogle's Producing OSS - very sound - recommend it 14:01 < stickster> Yup, I read and reviewed it for RHM last year 14:01 < stickster> lemme see if I can find that link.... 14:01 < jmbuser> His comments on value of docs is motivating to me 14:02 < couf> small interjection: 17UTC: good time for meeting? 14:02 < stickster> http://www.redhat.com/magazine/015jan06/features/review_fogel/ 14:02 < jmbuser> Matt Asay also is stressing importance of good docs to the success of a project 14:02 < stickster> Works for me, I know this was touchy for quaid but he said he would aquiesce if it worked for everyone else 14:02 < jmbuser> OK for me 14:03 < stickster> Interesting thing -- you can find some decent docs for some parts of Fedora project work, like packaging and such 14:03 < jmbuser> I'll read your review, Stickster 14:03 < couf> all right, continue? 14:04 < stickster> Let's talk about training then 14:04 < jmbuser> proceed 14:04 -!- stickster changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Documentation -- Oct 7, 1700-1800 UTC -=- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -=- TOPIC: Training SIG 14:04 * couf digs up link 14:04 < couf> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BartCouvreur/Training 14:04 < stickster> Yup 14:04 < couf> as well as: http://couf.livejournal.com/1424.html 14:05 < jmbuser> oh-oh, I can't Moodle - blasted ISP blocking it 14:05 < stickster> There are a couple things we need to be aware of in looking at the training issue -- 14:05 < stickster> 1. Training is as difficult to maintain as Docs 14:05 < stickster> 2. Plus, it needs infrastructure to back it 14:06 < stickster> These are NOT arguments against Training. 14:06 < stickster> I dig it, especially since I have done that sort of work "IRL" before 14:06 < couf> right, major blocker seems to be #1 14:06 * jmbuser did public seminars a while back 14:07 < stickster> I think these courses are a heck of a lot better than things like screencasts, which generally are done because someone found a tool for doing screencasts 14:07 < stickster> Screencasts are a maintenance nightmare. 14:07 < stickster> On the other hand, they are VERY easy to make, meaning if you restrict the topic to a two-minute window, who cares about maintenance? 14:07 < couf> true 14:08 < stickster> Courses on the other hand, are much better for growth and modularity 14:08 < stickster> Plus they can be translated! 14:08 < stickster> (I would think) 14:08 < couf> think / hope 14:08 < couf> :) 14:08 * stickster hasn't looked to see if moodle allows PO for example 14:09 < couf> the big plus for training is that we don't need to write up everything, we could distribute it to the project as whole 14:09 < stickster> It would be supercool if you could write a course in en_US, and moodle could create PO for translators to work on 14:09 < stickster> Yup 14:09 < stickster> couf: +10 14:09 < stickster> I'm only speaking as someone interested in writing courseware :-) 14:10 < couf> hehe 14:10 < stickster> So the localization is important from a project perspective; interested locales could put their own training in the system 14:10 < stickster> But anyone could write courses, and then the good ones could bubble up to the top? 14:11 < couf> yeah 14:11 < jmbuser> Do any upstream project do similar courses which can serve as a model? 14:11 < vpv> I did Moodle stuff about a year ago and I think it didn't have the possibility of translating courses with PO then. Things may have changed, though. 14:13 < stickster> Well, that's a point for improvement, at least 14:13 < littlecharly> Hi 14:14 < stickster> jmbuser: I think Bart had posted a couple links 14:14 < couf> I'm afraid most LMS systems lack that functionality 14:14 < stickster> Yeah, that's a shame. 14:14 < jmbuser> ok, thanks 14:14 < couf> jmbuser: I know one, but it's not really upstream for us 14:15 < couf> anyway, we should move from here, the fedora-fr meeting is upon us 14:15 < stickster> Yeah, understood. 14:15 < jmbuser> ok 14:15 < stickster> Let's wrap for today, OK? 14:15 < jmbuser> +1 14:15 < couf> all right 14:15 < stickster> Thanks everyone for coming to the Docs Project meeting! From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 7 18:35:09 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2007 14:35:09 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-10-07 Summary Message-ID: <1191782109.3879.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Attendees: ----------- John Babich Bart Couvreur Paul W. Frields Dimitris Glezos Bob Jensen Summary: --------- * We are up to date on the Release Notes and IG. JOHN BABICH volunteered some time next week to help with these docs a bit. * BART COUVREUR wants to take over helming the AdminGuide and get it on track for a release. JOHN BABICH will re-invigorate DUG efforts. Both agreed these are core docs that we should be producing, and well. PAUL FRIELDS agreed to help with publishing these even if they are incomplete, in an effort to encourage community input and steering on these docs. * PAUL FRIELDS will start a discussion on this list about whether, and how, to cull our inordinately voluminous task list. He would like to cut down on the multiplicity of trackers we are using, which he believes might overwhelm potential contributors. There was some additional talk about BART's Training SIG idea. We agreed it would be nice to have L10N capability in moodle, which may not be there now. We will discuss Training further in the next meeting after BART gets more input and ideas. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 00:52:20 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 10:52:20 +1000 Subject: admin guide contributions Message-ID: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone, I have just joined the Fedora Docs project and have been browsing the task list. I've just started my new job at red hat so lately I haven't had a lot of free time. I was wondering if perhaps I would be able to contribute a section or two to the admin guide. I thought I could start with something small; I was thinking a section on setting up basic network settings (ip address, dns, hostname etc) using command line tools and system-config-network. Last year I did quite a bit of research and wrote a paper on BIND - maybe I can contribute that into here as well... Thanks, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 8 03:17:46 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:47:46 +0530 Subject: Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <1191457151.4575.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <23b1fe6e0710021412w5396a54axeec6086d9a332dfc@mail.gmail.com> <4702B876.8080108@fedoraproject.org> <23b1fe6e0710021620i3790db48q3fabeed2ed81ca17@mail.gmail.com> <1191373621.4575.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <23b1fe6e0710030053k630ae85bpc69bd58ce3f2a461@mail.gmail.com> <1191413085.4575.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <23b1fe6e0710031414h5aacce0ey3202ca26d72e7898@mail.gmail.com> <1191457151.4575.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4709A15A.3010000@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > I see that there are a lot of changes to the release announcement, which > looks great. Rahul, if you're going to include any of this material in > the OverView beat, it would be good to get those changes in now so > translators have plenty of time to work on it. We are trying to > minimize the number of new strings being sent to them at the last minute > before F8 GA. Thanks for helping with this. I have added all the information collected to the beats collected from various places including the feature list, previous release notes and announcements and some of the information picked up from the Fedora lists. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 8 03:18:34 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 08:48:34 +0530 Subject: admin guide contributions In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4709A18A.3010509@fedoraproject.org> Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi everyone, > > I have just joined the Fedora Docs project and have been browsing the > task list. I've just started my new job at red hat so lately I haven't > had a lot of free time. I was wondering if perhaps I would be able to > contribute a section or two to the admin guide. I thought I could > start with something small; I was thinking a section on setting up > basic network settings (ip address, dns, hostname etc) using command > line tools and system-config-network. Last year I did quite a bit of > research and wrote a paper on BIND - maybe I can contribute that into > here as well... Go for it. Be aware that system-config-network might be replaced by NetworkManager when it grows more wings soon. Rahul From couf at skynet.be Mon Oct 8 04:45:17 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:45:17 +0200 Subject: admin guide contributions In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191818717.29793.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op maandag 08-10-2007 om 10:52 uur [tijdzone +1000], schreef Murray McAllister: > Hi everyone, > > I have just joined the Fedora Docs project and have been browsing the > task list. I've just started my new job at red hat so lately I haven't > had a lot of free time. I was wondering if perhaps I would be able to > contribute a section or two to the admin guide. I thought I could > start with something small; I was thinking a section on setting up > basic network settings (ip address, dns, hostname etc) using command > line tools and system-config-network. Last year I did quite a bit of > research and wrote a paper on BIND - maybe I can contribute that into > here as well... > > Thanks, > > Murray. > Hi Murray, as Rahul mentioned: go for it! We will start drafting the Admin guide in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide , just add a subpage there or use a current page to add info. If you want to tackle any other topic that tends to be administration-al, just go for it. I'm gonna try to spit out the current topic list and get it somewhat more defined this week. Thanks Bart PS: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki might be useful as a reference -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From couf at skynet.be Mon Oct 8 04:45:17 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:45:17 +0200 Subject: admin guide contributions In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191818717.29793.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Op maandag 08-10-2007 om 10:52 uur [tijdzone +1000], schreef Murray McAllister: > Hi everyone, > > I have just joined the Fedora Docs project and have been browsing the > task list. I've just started my new job at red hat so lately I haven't > had a lot of free time. I was wondering if perhaps I would be able to > contribute a section or two to the admin guide. I thought I could > start with something small; I was thinking a section on setting up > basic network settings (ip address, dns, hostname etc) using command > line tools and system-config-network. Last year I did quite a bit of > research and wrote a paper on BIND - maybe I can contribute that into > here as well... > > Thanks, > > Murray. > Hi Murray, as Rahul mentioned: go for it! We will start drafting the Admin guide in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide , just add a subpage there or use a current page to add info. If you want to tackle any other topic that tends to be administration-al, just go for it. I'm gonna try to spit out the current topic list and get it somewhat more defined this week. Thanks Bart PS: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki might be useful as a reference -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 06:32:34 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:32:34 +1000 Subject: admin guide contributions In-Reply-To: <1191818717.29793.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> <1191818717.29793.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <95f1114b0710072332n23427e7ap5169cf9de452e3b1@mail.gmail.com> > Hi Murray, > > as Rahul mentioned: go for it! > > We will start drafting the Admin guide in > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide , just add > a subpage there or use a current page to add info. If you want to tackle > any other topic that tends to be administration-al, just go for it. > > I'm gonna try to spit out the current topic list and get it somewhat > more defined this week. > > Thanks > > Bart > > PS: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki might > be useful as a reference Wow, thanks Rhaul and Bart! I haven't gone over the style guide or the wiki tutorials yet, so that will have to come first. Are you sure it's okay to just go for it (once I've gone over the guides)? Would it be better for everyone if I did what I wanted then mailed to the list, instead of putting it on the wiki? Thanks again :) Kind Regards, Murray. From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 06:35:23 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2007 16:35:23 +1000 Subject: admin guide contributions In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0710072332n23427e7ap5169cf9de452e3b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> <1191818717.29793.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <95f1114b0710072332n23427e7ap5169cf9de452e3b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0710072335k5777ecfdm399667c133cc7c1@mail.gmail.com> On 10/8/07, Murray McAllister wrote: > > Hi Murray, > > > > as Rahul mentioned: go for it! > > > > We will start drafting the Admin guide in > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide , just add > > a subpage there or use a current page to add info. If you want to tackle > > any other topic that tends to be administration-al, just go for it. > > > > I'm gonna try to spit out the current topic list and get it somewhat > > more defined this week. > > > > Thanks > > > > Bart > > > > PS: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki might > > be useful as a reference > [ Apologies I replied to the wrong address and forgot my GPG key - not sure if the key is required] Wow, thanks Rhaul and Bart! I haven't gone over the style guide or the wiki tutorials yet, so that will have to come first. Are you sure it's okay to just go for it (once I've gone over the guides)? Would it be better for everyone if I did what I wanted then mailed to the list, instead of putting it on the wiki? Thanks again :) Kind Regards, Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 8 06:41:38 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:11:38 +0530 Subject: admin guide contributions In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0710072335k5777ecfdm399667c133cc7c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> <1191818717.29793.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <95f1114b0710072332n23427e7ap5169cf9de452e3b1@mail.gmail.com> <95f1114b0710072335k5777ecfdm399667c133cc7c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4709D122.6060400@fedoraproject.org> Murray McAllister wrote: Are you sure it's okay to just go for it > (once I've gone over the guides)? Would it be better for everyone if I > did what I wanted then mailed to the list, instead of putting it on > the wiki? > > Thanks again :) In general, you can just make changes directly without going through any kind of approval. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing "Be bold while editing changes. Wiki changes are tracked and can be reverted when necessary. This doesn't mean you should be reckless especially when making large changes to key documents." Rahul From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 11:05:31 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 21:05:31 +1000 Subject: admin guide contributions In-Reply-To: <4709D122.6060400@fedoraproject.org> References: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> <1191818717.29793.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <95f1114b0710072332n23427e7ap5169cf9de452e3b1@mail.gmail.com> <95f1114b0710072335k5777ecfdm399667c133cc7c1@mail.gmail.com> <4709D122.6060400@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <470A0EFB.6070604@gmail.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Murray McAllister wrote: > > Are you sure it's okay to just go for it >> (once I've gone over the guides)? Would it be better for everyone if I >> did what I wanted then mailed to the list, instead of putting it on >> the wiki? >> >> Thanks again :) > > In general, you can just make changes directly without going through any > kind of approval. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing > > "Be bold while editing changes. Wiki changes are tracked and can be > reverted when necessary. This doesn't mean you should be reckless > especially when making large changes to key documents." > > Rahul > Thanks, I did read the quote and do realise that everyone can edit - I just didn't want to step on any bodies toes, or give people the wrong information. But on that note I'll try to make something of a contribution on Saturday :) I can't remember where I read about the new things coming into NetworkManger, but they sounded exciting :) Thanks again, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 8 17:47:24 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 10:47:24 -0700 Subject: admin guide contributions In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0710072332n23427e7ap5169cf9de452e3b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> <1191818717.29793.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <95f1114b0710072332n23427e7ap5169cf9de452e3b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1191865644.2988.47.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-10-08 at 16:32 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > I haven't gone over the style guide or the wiki tutorials yet, so that > will have to come first. Be aware that, for the most part, Fedora styles grew from Red Hat styles, so hopefully you'll get some double value out of your reading and any corrections given. Also, in case it wasn't obvious to you, you won't be able to share content between Red Hat formal documentation and Fedora documentation. They both use the OPL, but Red Hat continues to use restrictive clauses that prevents the content from being used in Fedora. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 17:56:23 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 13:56:23 -0400 Subject: admin guide contributions In-Reply-To: <1191865644.2988.47.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> <1191818717.29793.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <95f1114b0710072332n23427e7ap5169cf9de452e3b1@mail.gmail.com> <1191865644.2988.47.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1191866183.3308.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-10-08 at 10:47 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2007-10-08 at 16:32 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > > > I haven't gone over the style guide or the wiki tutorials yet, so that > > will have to come first. > > Be aware that, for the most part, Fedora styles grew from Red Hat > styles, so hopefully you'll get some double value out of your reading > and any corrections given. > > Also, in case it wasn't obvious to you, you won't be able to share > content between Red Hat formal documentation and Fedora documentation. > They both use the OPL, but Red Hat continues to use restrictive clauses > that prevents the content from being used in Fedora. I could grumble and bitch about this, but I'll refrain. In the meantime, let me simply nod and say, "Yes, that's right." We bravely soldier on regardless. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 22:20:23 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 08:20:23 +1000 Subject: admin guide contributions In-Reply-To: <1191866183.3308.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0710071752r7ca34f25ibe666d173e551471@mail.gmail.com> <1191818717.29793.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <95f1114b0710072332n23427e7ap5169cf9de452e3b1@mail.gmail.com> <1191865644.2988.47.camel@erato.phig.org> <1191866183.3308.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <95f1114b0710081520ya9f88dcpd81d7e938e4c155e@mail.gmail.com> On 10/9/07, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-10-08 at 10:47 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-10-08 at 16:32 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > > > > > I haven't gone over the style guide or the wiki tutorials yet, so that > > > will have to come first. > > > > Be aware that, for the most part, Fedora styles grew from Red Hat > > styles, so hopefully you'll get some double value out of your reading > > and any corrections given. > > > > Also, in case it wasn't obvious to you, you won't be able to share > > content between Red Hat formal documentation and Fedora documentation. > > They both use the OPL, but Red Hat continues to use restrictive clauses > > that prevents the content from being used in Fedora. > Hi everyone, Thanks for that information, I was not aware about the 'rules' for sharing content between red hat documentation and fedora documentation :) Thanks for saving me before I did something wrong ;) Regards, Murray ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 8 23:47:14 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 19:47:14 -0400 Subject: Release Notes sync Message-ID: <1191887234.3308.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Just a quick note to the list to let people know that the Release Notes content has been synchronized with the wiki. I re-rolled the POT and PO files but will not notify L10N officially until tomorrow just in case. Most of their teams are and have been working on this content already, judging by the commits list activity. The total changes were on the order of approximately 60 strings. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 9 00:30:19 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2007 20:30:19 -0400 Subject: Setting the sights Message-ID: <1191889819.3308.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> The topic of our multiple task listings came up in the meeting. No, wait, that sounds like it just happened by itself; I raised the issue in the context of our contributor deficiency. In an only partially Swiftian moment, I suggested that we cull our task list, wiping clean any tasks that we can't get done with the people and resources we currently have. After a little further thought, I propose that we get rid of things on the list in the following order. This is just a proposal, and I'd be happy if people cared enough to argue about it one way or another. I'm prioritizing the list only so people can easily respond to any level they find objectionable. 1. Any unstarted task targeted for FC-5 or before which has no owner. 2. Any unstarted task for which we have no contributor who knows how to complete the task, regardless of ownership. 3. Any started task which has no current owner. 4. Any started task for which no updates have happened in >6 months, regardless of ownership. I know some people will find this very upsetting, and that's probably good. Maybe the idea sucks. But on the other hand, maybe a list full of tasks that aren't clearly going somewhere cause confusion and consternation to new contributors. If the task list we're working from doesn't have jobs with a clear "howto," we're not likely to get anyone to magically take those jobs over. The Docs Project is only going to thrive with the active participation of people who may not have the technical mastery to take care of multidisciplinary tasks. Therefore, we need to reduce the number of those tasks and skew the list more toward tasks that newcomers can do. Any task that requires ownership and for which there is not already an easy "howto" document for working on it, needs to have one. We can move forward and encourage what I somewhat frivolously called a culture of success in Sunday's meeting. But to do that, we have to be willing to pump out some bilgewater. Why do we want to track a huge number of tasks that no one is volunteering to do? Is that really a worthwhile pursuit, or is it creating unnecessary drag? Speaking of which, I would also like to move for using Bugzilla for task tracking, since (1) it's already there, (2) it has several components in place in the "Fedora Docs" product we can use for any tasks that come up, and (3) the rest of the project is using it. (If the task tracker changes for the rest of the project, any migration can include our tasks as well.) This may be a separate thread, though. If anyone wants to spin it off, please feel free. I have done a minimum of second-guessing and re-editing myself above, so that I get this out of my Drafts folder immediately. If anything above comes off as offensive or mean-spirited, I heartily apologize, since I did not mean it to be so. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Oct 9 14:59:45 2007 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 07:59:45 -0700 Subject: Setting the sights In-Reply-To: <1191889819.3308.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1191889819.3308.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <470B9761.3090507@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields said the following on 10/08/2007 05:30 PM Pacific Time: > The topic of our multiple task listings came up in the meeting. No, > wait, that sounds like it just happened by itself; I raised the issue in > the context of our contributor deficiency. > > In an only partially Swiftian moment, I suggested that we cull our task > list, wiping clean any tasks that we can't get done with the people and > resources we currently have. After a little further thought, I propose > that we get rid of things on the list in the following order. This is > just a proposal, and I'd be happy if people cared enough to argue about > it one way or another. I'm prioritizing the list only so people can > easily respond to any level they find objectionable. Where is the current list of tasks? Do you need a task wrangler? > 1. Any unstarted task targeted for FC-5 or before which has no owner. > > 2. Any unstarted task for which we have no contributor who knows how to > complete the task, regardless of ownership. > > 3. Any started task which has no current owner. > > 4. Any started task for which no updates have happened in >6 months, > regardless of ownership. > +1 to all This seems like very fair criteria to me and reminds me of where we have moved to with Features--if there isn't a clear owner and nothing is happening, track them on a wish list so they aren't completely lost, but at the same time aren't being actively tracked for completion. > Speaking of which, I would also like to move for using Bugzilla for task > tracking, since (1) it's already there, (2) it has several components in > place in the "Fedora Docs" product we can use for any tasks that come > up, and (3) the rest of the project is using it. (If the task tracker > changes for the rest of the project, any migration can include our tasks > as well.) This may be a separate thread, though. If anyone wants to > spin it off, please feel free. I think a Trac instance for task tracking might be more manageable--similar to the way the Infrastructure group uses it? John From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 9 17:23:13 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 10:23:13 -0700 Subject: Setting the sights In-Reply-To: <470B9761.3090507@redhat.com> References: <1191889819.3308.32.camel@localhost.localdomain> <470B9761.3090507@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1191950593.2988.116.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 07:59 -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > Where is the current list of tasks? Do you need a task wrangler? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks > > 1. Any unstarted task targeted for FC-5 or before which has no owner. > > > > 2. Any unstarted task for which we have no contributor who knows how to > > complete the task, regardless of ownership. > > > > 3. Any started task which has no current owner. > > > > 4. Any started task for which no updates have happened in >6 months, > > regardless of ownership. > > > > +1 to all > > This seems like very fair criteria to me and reminds me of where we > have moved to with Features--if there isn't a clear owner and nothing > is happening, track them on a wish list so they aren't completely > lost, but at the same time aren't being actively tracked for > completion. Agreed. > I think a Trac instance for task tracking might be more > manageable--similar to the way the Infrastructure group uses it? Personally I cannot stand using Bugzilla for tracking anything other than bugs. OTOH, doing something totally away from the Fedora norm doesn't help anyone. Not sure what is the best action here ... I reckon we should focus on what is best for this sub-project *first*. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jon at fedoraunity.org Tue Oct 9 18:20:15 2007 From: jon at fedoraunity.org (Jonathan Steffan) Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2007 12:20:15 -0600 Subject: Fedora Documentation Platform Message-ID: <470BC65F.5030303@fedoraunity.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Team, So, after brief thought about the Fedora Documentation Platform (FDP) changes I'd like to do... here they are: * Replace Makefiles with config files and then use the FDP to do all building, allowing a user to specify they want to use the local cpu to do the building, or if they want to use the buildd. + We get to use python :-D + IMHO we would get much more flexibility and a tighter integration with our translators and translation systems (read: translators would be able to easily render for their language to check their results before pushing the build to zope + AFAIK, we have more combined skills with python, over Makefiles + Centralized code updates - Centralized code updates, this is because very little code will actually be in the buildd-cli. If the command is to run local, the buildd will just return an array of commands it would have run... allowing the buildd-cli to run them on the local cpu. This does require the buildd to be available and the contributor in question to have Internet access. Do we want to allow offline building? * Have better targets. It will be much easier for me to write more "stable" code if I am able to checkout a CVS module and then read (uniformly) into the buildd what this CVS module allows the buildd to do. For example, What languages are complete? What languages are there? When was the last build, the results? What is the target for this doc? Where do we have it published to? ... Stuff like this. I'd like to be able to programmatically read this information.. while also having it very easy to work with for a human (read: use something like ConfigParser) and storing most, if not all, information in the CVS tree itself. For example, I really wanted to add a "lock" to the CVS module when someone is doing TTW (through the web) editing. This will prevent data from being lost. Right now, it is possible for users via plone to be over written by a use editing via CVS and vice versa. I'd like to be able to checkout a CVS module and know "right away" if there has been an edit somewhere else... that has not been saved back to the module. If we had a nice system that I could easily make changes via the buildd to inform users of this.. it would be perfect. Example: User 1 is editing the README via plone. User 2 is leet and edits the docbook directly by checking out the module User 2 is informed with a DONTREALLYDOTHIS file that has the user info from plone stating the edit is going on, and when. [ OK, so yes.. we can do this anyways... and will] Any action User 2 takes via the buildd-cli, they will be directly warned and also questioned as to continue or not before they can render, or use the cli to commit (they could of course just use direct CVS commands, but yea) I also need the ability to have a document in different namespaces. Namespace = url request that retrieves rendered content. Example: CVS module harHar could have the namespaces /the/har/Har and also /documentation/this/is/answering/all/you/asked Such: Admin 1 authorizes Document 1 to go into official namespace as /howto/cure/luser/error This document is going through the standard process of translation, and updates. User 1 wants to contribute a fix to /howto/cure/luser/error but doesn't have access to that namespace. * Here, we want to enable anyone to help... on the team or not. User 1 either copies (if they can read they can copy :-D) or inits another document using the same CVS source. At this point I want User 1 to be able to edit the document. They will be able to, they are owners of the object. They will be restricted from being able to call a commit, but will be able to render from CVS (though the most likely don't want to as it would re-render over their changes.. good thing the document would be versioned in plone so they can revert that oops). * Here I want to illustrate why I really want a good way to work in multiple locations User 1 does some great work and informs Admin 1 (or 2, or 15) they should look at the changes. (Now, hopefully, I can get CMFDiff to work correctly, but lets assume it does) The Admin user will be able to look at the history tab and view all of the changes. If they are acceptable, the Admin user will be able to (from this user namespace) issue a commit to save the changes to CVS. Admin 1 has saved the changes.. and likes them enough they want to push them into the official namespace. Well, all that will need to happen is to issue a render in the official namespace. == At this point, having config files based in CVS is even more important. I briefly brought this up a while ago and have yet to solve it. == * What happens if we get an edit in English, for example, while translations are going on? Even if they are not? Do we render all languages... even when some languages have not been updated yet? Does this mean we will have multiple running versions? Do we block renders until all languages are updated? In our current system, it is very hard for me to programmatically tell/detect all of these situations and anything I've tried so far I was able to break quickly. Depending on the answers to the above, does it not make sense to be able to say "current render for language XY is already updated, don't render... *next*" to save CPU and rendering time? Does it not make sense to "ping" our translation system when we have stale detection? Do we ping and then block the render from going to the zope instance? I'm going to cut myself off to try to answer the rest of my questions from any responses I get from this. Basically, IMHO moving away from the current Makefile system will make what I think we are trying to achieve with the FDP less of a big "what can we get done building on top of our current system" and more of a "oh yeah, now that is cool" situation. Jonathan Steffan -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHC8ZfrRJs5w2Gr1kRApJAAKDYbPkVxzxXzunpMpzH7qjnEVMZvACffmT/ aIQCuL+OBVNzQY9mh+ReR2s= =M3wF -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 10 23:20:41 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2007 23:20:41 +0000 Subject: Volunteers needed for easy job Message-ID: <1192058441.11393.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Since I'm flooding the airwaves with my prattle of late, I'd like to ask two or three volunteers -- it's especially helpful if they're relative newbies -- to run some installations using the F8 IG draft as a guide. (You can find it at pfrields.fedorapeople.org if you haven't seen it already.) If you find problems, file a bug in Bugzilla. If you don't know how to file a bug in Bugzilla, report it here, and someone will help you get it filed. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 11 01:20:16 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2007 01:20:16 +0000 Subject: Fedora Documentation Platform In-Reply-To: <470BC65F.5030303@fedoraunity.org> References: <470BC65F.5030303@fedoraunity.org> Message-ID: <1192065616.11393.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 12:20 -0600, Jonathan Steffan wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Team, > > So, after brief thought about the Fedora Documentation Platform (FDP) > changes I'd like to do... here they are: I mentioned the acronym overloading over IRC, so hopefully we can find a better name for the platform. :-) > * Replace Makefiles with config files and then use the FDP to do all > building, allowing a user to specify they want to use the local cpu to > do the building, or if they want to use the buildd. > > + We get to use python :-D > + IMHO we would get much more flexibility and a tighter integration > with our translators and translation systems (read: translators would be > able to easily render for their language to check their results before > pushing the build to zope > + AFAIK, we have more combined skills with python, over Makefiles I afraid of being a naysayer, but this sounds a bit like the cart driving the horse. When you say "we have more combined skills with Python over Makefiles," what I hear is "I know more about Python than Makefiles." But using Makefiles and mainly (since Tommy vanished) the meager skills of a liberal arts major, we've been able to maintain Makefiles that do plenty of stuff like render HTML formats for translators' languages, checking the results, and so forth. (Q.v. "make html" or "make validate-xml-".) When we have consultants come in to our office who work on solution design for a couple weeks and then start their presentation off with "Well, the first thing we need to do is replace all this UNIX stuff with Windows 2003 servers!", we generally take their badges and wave goodbye. I'm not saying that this is an equivalent scenario -- I know you've done much more than a couple weeks' work -- but GNU make is nothing if not renowned for flexibility. Using Python configuration files moves the learning curve very steeply upward for anyone else who wants to figure out the toolchain, because config files don't *do* anything. They imply the need to understand how everything's happening in Zope. (Don't they also remove the ability for Z/P-less docs work?) With the Makefile, everything is right there on the surface. I'm not going to pretend that we don't have to make some changes, but we also need to understand that our toolchain needs to be packageable at some point. We'd like to have a simple (ahem, repeat, SIMPLE) toolset that someone can install from a fedora-docs-tools RPM that allows them to simply write DocBook XML and then generate roughly the same kinds of outputs as we're making now -- and hopefully more and better. > + Centralized code updates > - Centralized code updates, this is because very little code will > actually be in the buildd-cli. If the command is to run local, the > buildd will just return an array of commands it would have run... > allowing the buildd-cli to run them on the local cpu. This does require > the buildd to be available and the contributor in question to have > Internet access. Do we want to allow offline building? See above, but yes, offline building is very important. We do not want to limit options to just people with strong Internet presence, keeping in mind our global constituency. > * Have better targets. It will be much easier for me to write more > "stable" code if I am able to checkout a CVS module and then read > (uniformly) into the buildd what this CVS module allows the buildd to > do. For example, What languages are complete? "make postat-" > What languages are there? "make showvars | grep OTHERS" > When was the last build, the results? What is the target for this doc? > Where do we have it published to? ... Stuff like this. All right, we don't have that stuff. :-) But what does "the target for this doc" mean? What does the ending location mean? I thought we also want people to be able to use and build these documents locally and not constrain them to just our online platform. If I'm going through here completely misunderstanding your point, I really do apologize for being thickheaded. > I'd like to be > able to programmatically read this information.. while also having it > very easy to work with for a human (read: use something like > ConfigParser) and storing most, if not all, information in the CVS tree > itself. For example, I really wanted to add a "lock" to the CVS module > when someone is doing TTW (through the web) editing. This will prevent > data from being lost. Right now, it is possible for users via plone to > be over written by a use editing via CVS and vice versa. I'd like to be > able to checkout a CVS module and know "right away" if there has been an > edit somewhere else... that has not been saved back to the module. If we > had a nice system that I could easily make changes via the buildd to > inform users of this.. it would be perfect. Example: > > User 1 is editing the README via plone. > User 2 is leet and edits the docbook directly by checking out the module > User 2 is informed with a DONTREALLYDOTHIS file that has the user info > from plone stating the edit is going on, and when. > [ OK, so yes.. we can do this anyways... and will] > Any action User 2 takes via the buildd-cli, they will be directly > warned and also questioned as to continue or not before they can render, > or use the cli to commit (they could of course just use direct CVS > commands, but yea) Does this mean that two people can't work on a guide at the same time, or only that two people can't publish the same guide at the same time? Because currently, Karsten and I can do something like hit the Release Notes "beats" in tandem to get the content put together faster. Can you explain this in a way that shows me how we gain by using this kind of scheme? > I also need the ability to have a document in different namespaces. > Namespace = url request that retrieves rendered content. > > Example: > > CVS module harHar could have the namespaces /the/har/Har and also > /documentation/this/is/answering/all/you/asked > > Such: > > Admin 1 authorizes Document 1 to go into official namespace as > /howto/cure/luser/error > This document is going through the standard process of translation, and > updates. > User 1 wants to contribute a fix to /howto/cure/luser/error but doesn't > have access to that namespace. > * Here, we want to enable anyone to help... on the team or not. > User 1 either copies (if they can read they can copy :-D) or inits > another document using the same CVS source. At this point I want User 1 > to be able to edit the document. They will be able to, they are owners > of the object. They will be restricted from being able to call a commit, > but will be able to render from CVS (though the most likely don't want > to as it would re-render over their changes.. good thing the document > would be versioned in plone so they can revert that oops). > * Here I want to illustrate why I really want a good way to work in > multiple locations > User 1 does some great work and informs Admin 1 (or 2, or 15) they > should look at the changes. (Now, hopefully, I can get CMFDiff to work > correctly, but lets assume it does) The Admin user will be able to look > at the history tab and view all of the changes. If they are acceptable, > the Admin user will be able to (from this user namespace) issue a commit > to save the changes to CVS. > Admin 1 has saved the changes.. and likes them enough they want to push > them into the official namespace. Well, all that will need to happen is > to issue a render in the official namespace. > > == At this point, having config files based in CVS is even more > important. I briefly brought this up a while ago and have yet to solve > it. == I think I may be able to hazily glimpse a little of why these config files are important, but it's still eluding me. Could these config files, then, be generated from Makefile rules and a bit of other content unseen by mortals? That would retain some sort of compatibility for people who just want to do work via the $SCM command line. > * What happens if we get an edit in English, for example, while > translations are going on? Even if they are not? Do we render all > languages... even when some languages have not been updated yet? Does > this mean we will have multiple running versions? Do we block renders > until all languages are updated? In our current system, it is very hard > for me to programmatically tell/detect all of these situations and > anything I've tried so far I was able to break quickly. I don't know whether I understand your questions, but we always have translations occurring on documents. If we have a document set to render, it would seem -- to me at least -- more worthwhile to have all the active languages that are translated past some low-bar point rendered with it. It's better to have things up to date than fully translated, given that we at least have English as a lingua franca for the Fedora Project as a whole. The way documents render using our current PO methods, if there is an edit made that changes the original text content, the string representing that content goes "fuzzy." When the document is built in a locale where a string is fuzzy, the original (untranslated) string appears instead of the old, possibly outdated translation. So if I make an edit to the original English of the second paragraph of the three below, until the German translation is done, you'd see: Gabi, geh doch mal ran! Gabi, go and get it quickly! Gabi, geh doch mal ran! > Depending on the answers to the above, does it not make sense to be able > to say "current render for language XY is already updated, don't > render... *next*" to save CPU and rendering time? Does it not make sense > to "ping" our translation system when we have stale detection? Do we > ping and then block the render from going to the zope instance? I see your point here, and definitely appreciate the tenderness of this particular issue (CPU time eaten). Building the entire release notes content haul, for example, on my dual-core CPU takes a LONG time, on the order of 15+ minutes. On the other hand, we wouldn't expect to build that much at one time on this platform. However, I don't see what this has to do with the beginning of this email, which could just mean I'm lost. > I'm going to cut myself off to try to answer the rest of my questions > from any responses I get from this. Basically, IMHO moving away from the > current Makefile system will make what I think we are trying to achieve > with the FDP less of a big "what can we get done building on top of our > current system" and more of a "oh yeah, now that is cool" situation. I'm not yet convinced that throwing out Makefiles is the answer here. I'd never argue that Python's not cool and flexible -- it is -- but config files by themselves (and in the absence of any glue or other helpers) offer a lot less value in cases where people aren't using our Plone for reasons of bandwidth, interface, or what have you. I don't mean to come off as stodgy, though. If this is really a "no, no, you can still do all that, PLUS" situation, then I'm all for it. I'm certainly not married to Makefiles. We do need to be careful, though, that we are not letting the tools drive the need. And of course, the standard "this is just my US $0.02" applies. I'm very much out of my depth when it comes to all this CMF/Zope/Plone stuff, so at some point I have to throw up my hands and say, "OK, whatever, just please don't make everything suck." :-D -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Oct 12 22:49:28 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 15:49:28 -0700 Subject: Fedora Documentation Platform In-Reply-To: <1192065616.11393.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <470BC65F.5030303@fedoraunity.org> <1192065616.11393.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1192229368.17624.68.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2007-10-11 at 01:20 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-10-09 at 12:20 -0600, Jonathan Steffan wrote: > > * Replace Makefiles with config files and then use the FDP to do all > > building, allowing a user to specify they want to use the local cpu to > > do the building, or if they want to use the buildd. > > > > + We get to use python :-D > > + IMHO we would get much more flexibility and a tighter integration > > with our translators and translation systems (read: translators would be > > able to easily render for their language to check their results before > > pushing the build to zope > > + AFAIK, we have more combined skills with python, over Makefiles > > I afraid of being a naysayer, but this sounds a bit like the cart > driving the horse. This is the essence of my concern, that tools needs are driving the situation. DocBook XML in an SCM is a well known, stable way to write content. > Does this mean that two people can't work on a guide at the same time, > or only that two people can't publish the same guide at the same time? > Because currently, Karsten and I can do something like hit the Release > Notes "beats" in tandem to get the content put together faster. Can you > explain this in a way that shows me how we gain by using this kind of > scheme? In fact, that is an essence of source control. You can work on the same file at the same time. > I think I may be able to hazily glimpse a little of why these config > files are important, but it's still eluding me. Could these config > files, then, be generated from Makefile rules and a bit of other content > unseen by mortals? That would retain some sort of compatibility for > people who just want to do work via the $SCM command line. +1 If we have to have a parallel system, it would help to have them tie together via Makefiles somehow. Plone administration could be a separate function from CVS/Makefile admin. Basically, we're already stretched thin on resources to handle a relatively simple Makefile system. Building a more complex beast to replace it is a bit scary. Perhaps if we got Fedora Infrastructure involved? But really, it's not their job to maintain sub-project toolchains. I'm nervous about creating a need for a *more* experienced resource to replace what we have now. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Sat Oct 13 03:17:09 2007 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 22:17:09 -0500 Subject: Volunteers needed for easy job In-Reply-To: <1192058441.11393.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1192058441.11393.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <471038B5.5000400@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Since I'm flooding the airwaves with my prattle of late, I'd like to ask > two or three volunteers -- it's especially helpful if they're relative > newbies -- to run some installations using the F8 IG draft as a guide. > (You can find it at pfrields.fedorapeople.org if you haven't seen it > already.) If you find problems, file a bug in Bugzilla. If you don't > know how to file a bug in Bugzilla, report it here, and someone will > help you get it filed. > I went through a live CD install. looked good, opened #330361 #330381 #330401 #330411 I can assist with any of them or you can just close them completely as some were very minor. -Mike From Darren.Fields at glencore.co.uk Sat Oct 13 04:07:42 2007 From: Darren.Fields at glencore.co.uk (Darren.Fields at glencore.co.uk) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 05:07:42 +0100 Subject: CN=Darren Fields/OU=london/O=glen is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 13/10/2007 and will not return until 29/10/2007. I will respond to your message when I return. LEGAL DISCLAIMER. The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are strictly confidential and they may not be used or disclosed by someone who is not a named recipient. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by replying to this email inserting the word "misdirected" as the message and delete this e-mail from your system. From jeevanullas at gmail.com Sat Oct 13 07:47:05 2007 From: jeevanullas at gmail.com (Deependra Shekhawat) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:17:05 +0530 Subject: CN=Darren Fields/OU=london/O=glen is out of the office. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <57127b5f0710130047k564f19bam2aa92b40b96d86ba@mail.gmail.com> HI, Please disable public away messages on a public mailing list. Thanks Regards On 10/13/07, Darren.Fields at glencore.co.uk wrote: > > I will be out of the office starting 13/10/2007 and will not return until > 29/10/2007. > > I will respond to your message when I return. > > > LEGAL DISCLAIMER. The contents of this e-mail and any attachments are strictly confidential and they may not be used or disclosed by someone who is not a named recipient. > If you have received this email in error please notify the sender by replying to this email inserting the word "misdirected" as the message and delete this e-mail from your system. > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Enjoy Life ! From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Sat Oct 13 12:24:15 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 13:24:15 +0100 Subject: Respin docs Message-ID: <3263b11b0710130524q7d800f8anc136248febcf7b4e@mail.gmail.com> Hey all, We've just been talking in a marketing meeting about trying to get some documentation up for creating re-spins before F8... The Fedora Unity people ahve done a pretty good job with a lot of documentation already so we wondered about pulling it across for docs.fedoraproject.org - perhaps with a bit of editing and pointing back to unity? Is this feasible? What would need to be done? I'd be happy to do the work for this... Best wishes, Jon NB: http://revisor.fedoraunity.org/documentation From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Oct 13 14:29:45 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2007 22:29:45 +0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Marc Wiriadisastra Message-ID: <1192285785.6154.8.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> Full legal name: Marc Wiriadisastra * City, Country: Perth, Western Australia * Profession or Student status: Student in Accounting and Business Law * Company, School, or other affiliation: Edith Cowan University www.ecu.edu.au * Your goals in the Fedora Project: To help improve the documentation so that new users are able to quickly get up to speed with using Fedora * What do you want to write about?: Anything provided I know it. * What other documentation do you want to see published?: Packaging, mini how to's, new information, equivalents list of packages from windows -> linux. * Anything else you'd like to do?: Not really to worried about what to do provided I can be of use. * Historical qualifications * What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? fedorasolved.org, http://fedoraguide.info (my personal site based on ubuntuguide.org) * What level and type of computer skills do you have? Not to sure apart from using linux, some Java programming (uni level), some packaging knowledge will improve when I get organised and request a sponsor. * What makes you an excellent match for the project? I feel that I would be of benefit because I can relate to a new user in the sense that I was a new user not so long ago. I also get a lot of feedback from users relating to my website so I adjust it to improve it. * * [marc at strikeforce ~]$ gpg --fingerprint 5ADA6325 * pub 1024D/5ADA6325 2007-03-24 * Key fingerprint = EB34 04B8 7032 A2C5 3A34 7D9E 6603 4E4D 5ADA 6325 * uid Marc Wiriadisastra (strikeforce) * sub 1024g/5ADDC4A9 2007-03-24 Cheers, Marc From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Oct 13 21:01:53 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 00:01:53 +0300 Subject: Respin docs In-Reply-To: <3263b11b0710130524q7d800f8anc136248febcf7b4e@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710130524q7d800f8anc136248febcf7b4e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710131401m112cceceke6e032e151d31805@mail.gmail.com> On 10/13/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey all, > > We've just been talking in a marketing meeting about trying to get > some documentation up for creating re-spins before F8... > See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20071013 for the IRC log of the meeting. > The Fedora Unity people ahve done a pretty good job with a lot of > documentation already so we wondered about pulling it across for > docs.fedoraproject.org - perhaps with a bit of editing and pointing > back to unity? > > Is this feasible? What would need to be done? I'd be happy to do the > work for this... > Yes, let's discuss this in the FDSco meeting. I'll add it to the agenda. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From zem at pocketstudio.jp Sun Oct 14 03:48:58 2007 From: zem at pocketstudio.jp (ZEMBUTSU Masahito) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 12:48:58 +0900 Subject: Self-Introduction: Zembutsu Masahito Message-ID: <20071014114745.9766.ZEM@pocketstudio.jp> Full legal Name: Zembutsu Masahito City, Country; Tokyo, Japan Profession: Linux server administrator Company: link,Inc. My goals in the Fedora Project: I want to increase Japanese translation documents. My purpose is to popularize Linux among the Japanese children. I will write the document which aimed at the introduction. Historical qualifications: I did Japanese translation for the document (For example, CentOS FAQ). I have never join community. But, I introduced a translation document to the public at my own site. My skill is a server administration and a technical support. and programming skill in Perl. I have the experience of the technical support. Therefore, I contribute by making suitable Japanese document which is easy to understand. pub 1024D/983A72CB 2007-10-14 Key fingerprint = 2C3D 97A9 B8B8 E584 33D7 E179 C8B9 189D 983A 72CB uid ZEMBUTSU Masahito sub 1024g/B55B5CD0 2007-10-14 From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 12:06:28 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 08:06:28 -0400 Subject: Volunteers needed for easy job In-Reply-To: <471038B5.5000400@redhat.com> References: <1192058441.11393.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <471038B5.5000400@redhat.com> Message-ID: <23b1fe6e0710140506l6e29f10bib165324d4c9b50fb@mail.gmail.com> On 10/12/07, Mike McGrath wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Since I'm flooding the airwaves with my prattle of late, I'd like to ask > > two or three volunteers -- it's especially helpful if they're relative > > newbies -- to run some installations using the F8 IG draft as a guide. > > (You can find it at pfrields.fedorapeople.org if you haven't seen it > > already.) If you find problems, file a bug in Bugzilla. If you don't > > know how to file a bug in Bugzilla, report it here, and someone will > > help you get it filed. > > > > I went through a live CD install. looked good, opened #330361 #330381 > #330401 #330411 I can assist with any of them or you can just close them > completely as some were very minor. > > -Mike > I did a LiveCD instlal also, opened #331281 and #331301, minor as well, be happy to help if you need it. -Jason From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 18:28:02 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 21:28:02 +0300 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-10-14 IRC Log Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710141128p1ead35acpdac58afdd7367a0@mail.gmail.com> jmbuser: welcome back * jmbuser had my required disconnect - now let's have the meeting quaid: ping jmbuser: it seems it's just us :-/ couf: Shall we have a meeting? jmbuser: well we don't have quorum, so if you want to discuss something go ahead, otherwise we might have to cancel Let's wait and see if anyone shows up - 1 more minute couf: still there? jmbuser: yep couf: Is it worthwhile having a 2 -person meeting? Sometimes. But it's not really worth scheduling unless both people are exceptionally busy. jmbuser: not really ivazquez: true ivazquez: Are you here for the meeting? - welcome Mostly just to eavesdrop. couf: ok - we can have a brief meeting then - agreed? jmbuser: sure Ok, if you don't mind, I'll start with the agenda: * jmbuser asks for patience with his slow internet connection See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings Agenda item 1 - Proposed by Marketing team in their meeting yesterday. heh both topics can be linked to yesterday's marketing meeting couf: true Here's no.1 : * Marketing team proposal to republish, on docs.fp.o, FedoraUnity.org docs for creating re-spins. See http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-October/msg00058.html for details. couf: Thoughts, opinions? well it's definitly a good idea, the only drawback here is that does docs are 100% about revisor, neglecting pungi and livecd-tools note: this is an opinion with just briefly looking at the docs * couf tries to get kanarip in here couf: Do we make that clear and try and get someone to fill the gaps on pungi especially? Livecd-tools at least has a fairly good page or two,,, jmbuser: it's a distinction we really need to make couf: Without discriminating among the 3, are we promoting all 3 at the same time? Is there a preferred method or whatever works for whomever? from a user-perspective revisor is the best way to go, developper/sysadmin would probably like pungi revisor builds on top of pungi/livecd so it's basicly the same principles Is wevisor (web-based revisor) usable today - and therefore an option? well there is a proof of concept running at https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/wevisor/ but no idea what the status is couf: To be practical, I guess we need a "table of contents" and start with revisor and add the others as time permits - links to what exists today right I really would like a volunteer since I promised a DUG for F8 and don't want to be overcommitted jmbuser: I'll see what I can do I'll try to get kanarip and daMaestro on board and it could go fast then couf: I didn't mean YOU had to be the volunteer :-) but kanarip and daMaestro are more than welcome to help out jmbuser: yeah I know, but I just want to get this thing over with :-) ok, shall we move on to agenda item 2? yep 2 - Publishing howto's to docs.fp.o: increase visibility of the site and might have positive influence on our contributor flow-in give me 2 min, need to feed the dogs OK Does this refer to the COSS Summercode 2007 project by vpv - see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SummerOfCode/2007/VillePekkaVainio? * jmbuser waits for couf to return * couf returns ah sort off / might be part of it vpv: ping * jmbuser sees vpv is away but hopes I just struck me that not many people know about docs.fp.o and that it could be usefull to get some more stuff on it to draw attention the idea basicly came from one guy how just joined this weekend having this great site full of howto's which he might transfer to us That sounds promising * couf looks for the mail https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-October/msg00059.html site is: http://www.fedoraguide.info/index.php/Main_Page we will need to filter out stuff that's on it b/c of the legal stuff * jmbuser waits for his sluggish internet which actually leads to: what howto stuff is on our wiki that could/should be part off this new "thing" I see the self-introduction and the fedoraguide is slowly coming ah, this has some relationship with the kbase-idea of old ok, got the website Is the general ideas to bring over the "legal" topics and perhaps leave the other topics as an unofficial guide? I'm not sure, we should that with Marc (Strikeforce) probably the only way to go couf: ok - I remember Strikeforce from the marketing meeting - is he seeking access so he can help bring it over - at least the permissible stuff? jmbuser: if I got it right, yes that's just it otoh, I could be really, really wrong too :-) This would be a great contribution for an new FDP member to make - pretty easy to bring over with guidance with a quick and good payoff * jmbuser assumes Strikeforce would be agreeable to the official Fedora guidelines right * Libbe (n=espenas at 178.80-202-101.nextgentel.com) has joined #fedora-docs * couf notes: I don't have much time left couf: Any other topics or shall we wrap it up? jmbuser: maybe somewhat, but you know my project dealt with man and info pages, not the documentation you write here * vpv notes he has midterm exams coming up, so he can't be very active right now vpv: Thanks for tuning in - is your project ready for publication (when you have time, that is)? jmbuser: wrap up, unless you've got anything else? * jmbuser gives vpv a chance to respond jmbuser: not really, it needs some work still, I have planned to send a "call for help" mail to the list those who are interested could have a look at http://www.mindtrek.org/pdf/presentations/workshops/summer_coders/esitys-vainio.pdf vpv: fair enough - please send that email when you feel it is the appropriate time that's my presentation in the OpenMind conference * couf needs to run vpv: thanks - If there's nothing else, let's close the meeting - thanks * jmbuser declares end of meeting jmbuser: cool, thanks man thanks :) likewise From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Oct 14 19:03:03 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:03:03 +0300 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-10-14 Summary Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710141203p264a75abmd194659d474d41d2@mail.gmail.com> A non-quorum meeting was held with John Babich (jmbuser) and Bart Couvreur (couf) attending. Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams (ivazquez) and Ville-Pekka Vainio (vpv) also participated. Two agenda items were discussed (both suggested by the Fedora Marketing team in the previous day's meeting). 1. Marketing team proposal to republish, on docs.fp.o, FedoraUnity.org docs for creating re-spins. See http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-October/msg00058.html for details. Note: docs.fp.o is the abbreviation for docs.fedoraproject.org. To be practical, I guess we need a "table of contents" and start with revisor and add the others [live-CD tools & pungi] as time permits - links to what exists today jmbuser: I'll see what I can do I'll try to get kanarip and daMaestro on board and it could go fast then 2. Publishing howto's to docs.fp.o: increase visibility of the site and might have positive influence on our contributor flow-in John and Bart briefly reviewed Marc Wiriadisastra's (Strikeforce) site and agreed that this would be a good addition to docs.fp.o. The main concern is that the how-tos need to meet the "legal" guidelines for a Fedora Project site - i.e., not include forbidden items. These items could remain on an unofficial website if desired. This would be a great project for a beginner with a little bit of guidance. Ville-Pekka joined in to clarify that his summer project was concerning man and info pages, not how-tos. He is busy at the moment, but will ask for assistance on the mailing list to publish his work, once he has the time available. Best regards, John Babich Member, Fedora Docs Project From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Oct 15 03:33:45 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 11:33:45 +0800 (WST) Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-10-14 Summary In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710141203p264a75abmd194659d474d41d2@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0710141203p264a75abmd194659d474d41d2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1553.202.72.163.232.1192419225.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> > A non-quorum meeting was held with John Babich (jmbuser) and Bart > Couvreur (couf) attending. Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams (ivazquez) and > Ville-Pekka Vainio (vpv) also participated. > > Two agenda items were discussed (both suggested by the Fedora > Marketing team in the previous day's meeting). > > 1. Marketing team proposal to republish, on docs.fp.o, FedoraUnity.org > docs for creating re-spins. See > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-October/msg00058.html > for details. > > Note: docs.fp.o is the abbreviation for docs.fedoraproject.org. > > To be practical, I guess we need a "table of contents" and > start with revisor and add the others [live-CD tools & pungi] as time > permits - links to what exists today > > jmbuser: I'll see what I can do > I'll try to get kanarip and daMaestro on board and it could go fast > then I'm more than happy to help in this area since I contribute to fedorasolved as well for howto's etc... So if help is needed in this area just give me a yell and I'll start to help. > > 2. Publishing howto's to docs.fp.o: increase visibility of the site > and might have positive influence on our contributor flow-in > > John and Bart briefly reviewed Marc Wiriadisastra's (Strikeforce) site > and agreed that this would be a good addition to docs.fp.o. The main > concern is that the how-tos need to meet the "legal" guidelines for a > Fedora Project site - i.e., not include forbidden items. These items > could remain on an unofficial website if desired. This would be a > great project for a beginner with a little bit of guidance. > I'm more than happy to obviously transfer it the license should be ok to transfer. I would be interested to know which how-to's you would like, layout of how you want them written up and associated information. Obviously the non-legal stuff will be left out. The layout listed on docs.fp.o relate to bigger style documents is there a reference to how-to's? If so can I grab a link? If not can we create a standard layout that suits doc's? Cheers, Marc From gs at gesho.com Mon Oct 15 03:08:05 2007 From: gs at gesho.com (Giorgi Shonia) Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:08:05 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Giorgi Shonia Message-ID: <200710142308.05238.gs@gesho.com> My name is Giorgi Shonia, now I'm a student studying (Indiana University) in US, Indiana, Bloomington, I'm Georgian. One thing I myself missed at fedoraproject/wiki were pages for people who would like to set up and configure homeservers. Most of default configs work fine, but in some case tuning is needed and if appropriate to Doc project, I'd love to put up that record. Computers are not my profession, most of my background comes from my hobby interest. I am doing some self-study coding in C. I keep an ancient server at home for learning and gaming fun. Giorgi My GPG Key is: pub 1024D/10D99509 2007-10-15 Key fingerprint = F96D 6BB7 0B1D 8432 A7E1 5F3B C65A 510B 10D9 9509 uid Giorgi Shonia sub 1024g/851B4BEA 2007-10-15 From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 15 21:37:20 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:37:20 -0700 Subject: free formats, CodecBuddy, and how you can help Message-ID: <1192484240.14547.113.camel@erato.phig.org> As part of our ongoing campaign in Fedora to support and promote free/open formats for media, Fedora 8 has a new feature called 'codeina' that is part of the GStreamer package. There is a proposed patch to codeina to change certain default behavior, The effect is, when a user attempts to play a format that is not supported due to a codec being non-free or otherwise patent encumbered, a dialog window pops up. This window informs the user of what is happening and links off to a webpage for more information: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=221531 (Note - the typo 'availabe' has been fixed. You may be able to get changes to this dialog into the patch if you act quickly.) The dialog has a link to fedoraproject.org/codecbuddy, which redirects to a wiki page. Your help is needed in crafting this message the users see: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CodecBuddy That webpage can have: * More information * Links to more information (such as the ForbiddenItems page) * Links to where one can legally purchase codecs (through Fluendo) All of this replaces the default codeina behavior, which is to take the user directly to Fluendo's online shop. The Fedora Board felt that it is OK to offer such options as part of a full story, but not as a default action without context as to *why* this is happening. The codeina maintainer would like to see the webpage/wiki page updated before accepting the patch. If you are interested, just jump in and start editing the CodecBuddy page. Hopefully someone with more information about the Fluendo portions can help with that. thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Oct 15 22:44:24 2007 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2007 23:44:24 +0100 Subject: free formats, CodecBuddy, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <1192484240.14547.113.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1192484240.14547.113.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <3263b11b0710151544k5c1b4a2bmd527f8ebbe5c64ac@mail.gmail.com> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=221531 It's probably already been thoroughly discussed, but do you think that it should avoid use of the word codec? Or at least explain it? Might be a silly thought, but people who are reliant on CodecBuddy might not have a clue... Awesome project though! I'll maybe have a crack at adding some content to that wiki page. Best wishes, Jon From sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in Tue Oct 16 11:58:30 2007 From: sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in (Sudheer Satyanarayana) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:28:30 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Sudheer Satyanarayana Message-ID: <4714A766.8070007@binaryvibes.co.in> Full name: Sudheer Satyanarayana City: Bangalore Country: India I run a small software services and web hosting business in Bangalore. We offer web hosting, web development and IT infrastructure services to global customers. We work exclusively on Linux, Apache, MySQL and PHP technologies. Please visit http://www.binaryvibes.co.in to know more about our business. We also own and manage a community website - http://lampcomputing.com. I and few of my colleagues post blog, articles and how-to documents on lampcomputing.com. I have been using Fedora right from core 1. I started using GNU/Linux at while I was in school. RH6 was my first exposure to GNU/Linux. I'm a voracious reader of books. I read both - fiction and non-fiction. My profession requires me to read lot of technical books and manuals. I have already joined the Fedora Ambassadors Group. Last Saturday, I gave a talk on GNU/Linux in an event organized by ITPF, Bangalore. I have been helping people to migrate to free and open source software for about three years. I have also helped few business migrate to free and open source software successfully. I would like to contribute to the Fedora Docs Project. I would like to have your feedback on where to start. Apart from having a flair for content writing, I have experience in writing PHP/MySQL applications, building websites using Drupal and Joomla!. I have a little knowledge of FTP, SSH, MySQL, PHP and Apache. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [root at localhost ~]# gpg --fingerprint 08CC8675 pub 1024D/08CC8675 2007-09-27 [expires: 2012-09-25] Key fingerprint = 9048 28D2 78C2 40A3 CD43 A2BF E0DB AD71 08CC 8675 uid Sudheer Satyanarayana sub 2048g/EBFD82E8 2007-09-27 [expires: 2012-09-25] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Looking forward to hear from fellow members, -- With Warm Regards, Sudheer. S http://www.binaryvibes.co.in From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 16 14:24:06 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 19:54:06 +0530 Subject: free formats, CodecBuddy, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <1192484240.14547.113.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1192484240.14547.113.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <4714C986.4080705@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > > The codeina maintainer would like to see the webpage/wiki page updated > before accepting the patch. > > If you are interested, just jump in and start editing the CodecBuddy > page. Hopefully someone with more information about the Fluendo > portions can help with that. Page is immutable to me. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 16 17:19:10 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:19:10 -0700 Subject: free formats, CodecBuddy, and how you can help In-Reply-To: <4714C986.4080705@fedoraproject.org> References: <1192484240.14547.113.camel@erato.phig.org> <4714C986.4080705@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192555150.14547.172.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 19:54 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: > > > > > The codeina maintainer would like to see the webpage/wiki page updated > > before accepting the patch. > > > > If you are interested, just jump in and start editing the CodecBuddy > > page. Hopefully someone with more information about the Fluendo > > portions can help with that. > > Page is immutable to me. OK, that is strange. The ACLs are set to: #acl EditGroup:read All:read So ... I must be part of the admin group and didn't realize it? Only explanation of why it's set that way and yet I can edit it. I'm going to fix the ACLs to be the default; then make sure I'm watching the page; and once we have our 'final statement' up, I'll revert to a tighter set of ACLs. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 16 17:28:29 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:28:29 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Sudheer Satyanarayana In-Reply-To: <4714A766.8070007@binaryvibes.co.in> References: <4714A766.8070007@binaryvibes.co.in> Message-ID: <1192555709.14547.182.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 17:28 +0530, Sudheer Satyanarayana wrote: > I would like to contribute to the Fedora Docs Project. I would like to > have your feedback on where to start. Apart from having a flair for > content writing, I have experience in writing PHP/MySQL applications, > building websites using Drupal and Joomla!. I have a little knowledge > of FTP, SSH, MySQL, PHP and Apache. Excellent, welcome! One of the new SIGs in Fedora is one oriented toward developers. We have a lack of content that is for developers -- everything from how to use the platform to why Fedora is a good platform for developers. Would that be an area interesting to you? Typically there are more writers with sysadmin-oriented experience; thus I've been looking for developer-oriented writers to work with the Development SIG. If you like this idea, you'll want to contact/join the SIG, get involved in their meetings and such, and talk with them about what content they would like to see developed: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Development There is a *very old* Fedora Developer Guide. We could look into updating that: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/developers-guide/ That guide is more about how to get involved/contribute as a developer. It could certainly be updated from information scattered currently across the wiki. In addition, specific how-to content could be developed. All this can be done in XML in CVS, but you might have more luck with finding other collaborators for the initial drafts if you do the work on the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts If you are not interested in this idea :), you might find another draft in that location you do want to work on. Regardless, please bring your ideas and questions to this list so you can find other collaborators. Cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 16 17:34:19 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 10:34:19 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Giorgi Shonia In-Reply-To: <200710142308.05238.gs@gesho.com> References: <200710142308.05238.gs@gesho.com> Message-ID: <1192556059.14547.189.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-10-14 at 23:08 -0400, Giorgi Shonia wrote: > My name is Giorgi Shonia, now I'm a student studying (Indiana University) in > US, Indiana, Bloomington, I'm Georgian. Great, welcome. Something about Indiana seems to breed good Linux folks, in my (limited) experience. :) > One thing I myself missed at fedoraproject/wiki were pages for people who > would like to set up and configure homeservers. Most of default configs work > fine, but in some case tuning is needed and if appropriate to Doc project, > I'd love to put up that record. This is a good topic area. A single "Fedora Small Server Guide" (or something) could draw directly from existing content: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts ... as well as add some more of its own. If you look at the "Fedora Administration Guide" you might find a way to use the same content in a different order, with a different introduction and content to fill in the missing places. So, seems like a good idea. How can we help you start? :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 00:23:25 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:23:25 -0700 Subject: Volunteers needed for easy job In-Reply-To: <23b1fe6e0710140506l6e29f10bib165324d4c9b50fb@mail.gmail.com> References: <1192058441.11393.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <471038B5.5000400@redhat.com> <23b1fe6e0710140506l6e29f10bib165324d4c9b50fb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1192580605.18349.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-10-14 at 08:06 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > On 10/12/07, Mike McGrath wrote: > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > Since I'm flooding the airwaves with my prattle of late, I'd like to ask > > > two or three volunteers -- it's especially helpful if they're relative > > > newbies -- to run some installations using the F8 IG draft as a guide. > > > (You can find it at pfrields.fedorapeople.org if you haven't seen it > > > already.) If you find problems, file a bug in Bugzilla. If you don't > > > know how to file a bug in Bugzilla, report it here, and someone will > > > help you get it filed. > > > > > > > I went through a live CD install. looked good, opened #330361 #330381 > > #330401 #330411 I can assist with any of them or you can just close them > > completely as some were very minor. > > > > -Mike > > > > I did a LiveCD instlal also, opened #331281 and #331301, minor as > well, be happy to help if you need it. Hopefully you guys both saw that I fixed almost all of these -- thanks very much for the quick and thorough response. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 00:26:47 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:26:47 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Sudheer Satyanarayana In-Reply-To: <4714A766.8070007@binaryvibes.co.in> References: <4714A766.8070007@binaryvibes.co.in> Message-ID: <1192580807.18349.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 17:28 +0530, Sudheer Satyanarayana wrote: > Full name: Sudheer Satyanarayana > City: Bangalore > Country: India Hi Sudheer! We have a couple people working on the Desktop User Guide and the Administration Guide, being drafted on the wiki. (Refer to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts for more information.) I'm sure they would love your help. John Babich[1] is heading the Desktop User Guide effort, and Bart Couvreur[2] is heading the Administration Guide work. You can ask them questions on this list, or find them on IRC, at FreeNode #fedora-docs. Let us know how we can be of further assistance. = = = [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BartCouvreur -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 00:27:58 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 17:27:58 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Giorgi Shonia In-Reply-To: <1192556059.14547.189.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <200710142308.05238.gs@gesho.com> <1192556059.14547.189.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1192580878.18349.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 10:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2007-10-14 at 23:08 -0400, Giorgi Shonia wrote: > > My name is Giorgi Shonia, now I'm a student studying (Indiana University) in > > US, Indiana, Bloomington, I'm Georgian. > > Great, welcome. Something about Indiana seems to breed good Linux > folks, in my (limited) experience. :) > > > One thing I myself missed at fedoraproject/wiki were pages for people who > > would like to set up and configure homeservers. Most of default configs work > > fine, but in some case tuning is needed and if appropriate to Doc project, > > I'd love to put up that record. > > This is a good topic area. A single "Fedora Small Server Guide" (or > something) could draw directly from existing content: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts > > ... as well as add some more of its own. If you look at the "Fedora > Administration Guide" you might find a way to use the same content in a > different order, with a different introduction and content to fill in > the missing places. > > So, seems like a good idea. How can we help you start? :) Since the guide in question is still being drafted, why not help write it? Bart Couvreur is heading up that effort, so contact him here, through email, or IRC FreeNode #fedora-docs to coordinate. We are happy to have extra hands helping with this! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 17 04:21:11 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 10:51:11 +0630 Subject: Overview: Rewrite Message-ID: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> Hi http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview page needs a rewrite. Does any of the word smiths here help out with that? Details at http://marc.info/?l=fedora-marketing-list&m=118136110006398&w=2 Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 06:31:54 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2007 23:31:54 -0700 Subject: Overview: Rewrite In-Reply-To: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> References: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192602714.3834.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 10:51 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview page needs a rewrite. Does any of > the word smiths here help out with that? > > Details at > > http://marc.info/?l=fedora-marketing-list&m=118136110006398&w=2 I only had time to make trivial changes tonight -- please keep in mind that the word "free" is not capitalized in these use cases. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 17 07:35:01 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 14:05:01 +0630 Subject: Overview: Rewrite In-Reply-To: <1192602714.3834.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> <1192602714.3834.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4715BB25.9000905@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 10:51 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hi >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview page needs a rewrite. Does any of >> the word smiths here help out with that? >> >> Details at >> >> http://marc.info/?l=fedora-marketing-list&m=118136110006398&w=2 > > I only had time to make trivial changes tonight -- please keep in mind > that the word "free" is not capitalized in these use cases. How do you differentiate between Free as in freedom vs free as in gratis? Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 17 08:36:07 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 01:36:07 -0700 Subject: Overview: Rewrite In-Reply-To: <4715BB25.9000905@fedoraproject.org> References: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> <1192602714.3834.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4715BB25.9000905@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192610167.14547.281.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 14:05 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 10:51 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Hi > >> > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview page needs a rewrite. Does any of > >> the word smiths here help out with that? > >> > >> Details at > >> > >> http://marc.info/?l=fedora-marketing-list&m=118136110006398&w=2 > > > > I only had time to make trivial changes tonight -- please keep in mind > > that the word "free" is not capitalized in these use cases. > > How do you differentiate between Free as in freedom vs free as in gratis? Context. Sorry, but that's the way English is. Only words that are proper nouns get capitalized. That's why it should never be 'Open Source' but always 'open source', etc. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 15:11:11 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:11:11 -0700 Subject: Overview: Rewrite In-Reply-To: <4715BB25.9000905@fedoraproject.org> References: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> <1192602714.3834.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4715BB25.9000905@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1192633871.6152.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 14:05 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 10:51 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Hi > >> > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview page needs a rewrite. Does any of > >> the word smiths here help out with that? > >> > >> Details at > >> > >> http://marc.info/?l=fedora-marketing-list&m=118136110006398&w=2 > > > > I only had time to make trivial changes tonight -- please keep in mind > > that the word "free" is not capitalized in these use cases. > > How do you differentiate between Free as in freedom vs free as in gratis? You could use "free/libre" for example. But capitalizing the word isn't the right way to do this in English; instead it implies the use of a brand name, trademark, or other proper name, which I'm sure isn't the meaning for which you're looking. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Oct 17 15:16:36 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 08:16:36 -0700 Subject: Overview: Rewrite In-Reply-To: <1192610167.14547.281.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> <1192602714.3834.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4715BB25.9000905@fedoraproject.org> <1192610167.14547.281.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1192634196.6152.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 01:36 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 14:05 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 10:51 +0630, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > >> Hi > > >> > > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview page needs a rewrite. Does any of > > >> the word smiths here help out with that? > > >> > > >> Details at > > >> > > >> http://marc.info/?l=fedora-marketing-list&m=118136110006398&w=2 > > > > > > I only had time to make trivial changes tonight -- please keep in mind > > > that the word "free" is not capitalized in these use cases. > > > > How do you differentiate between Free as in freedom vs free as in gratis? > > Context. Sorry, but that's the way English is. Only words that are > proper nouns get capitalized. That's why it should never be 'Open > Source' but always 'open source', etc. Yeah, even the "free/libre" idea is stylistically lacking at best, and at worst, ugly and confusing absent the context. Our message is pretty clear without resorting to goofy slashes or hyphenates. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gs at gesho.com Thu Oct 18 03:09:30 2007 From: gs at gesho.com (Giorgi Shonia) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 23:09:30 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Giorgi Shonia In-Reply-To: <20071017160028.50E5E73422@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20071017160028.50E5E73422@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200710172309.30678.gs@gesho.com> thanks for direction guys, I emailed Bart. the admin guide you mentioned is this one? Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 18 17:18:42 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 10:18:42 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Giorgi Shonia In-Reply-To: <200710172309.30678.gs@gesho.com> References: <20071017160028.50E5E73422@hormel.redhat.com> <200710172309.30678.gs@gesho.com> Message-ID: <1192727922.14547.353.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-10-17 at 23:09 -0400, Giorgi Shonia wrote: > thanks for direction guys, I emailed Bart. the admin guide you mentioned is > this one? > Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide Yes, I believe it is. -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From couf at skynet.be Thu Oct 18 17:44:19 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 19:44:19 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Giorgi Shonia In-Reply-To: <1192580878.18349.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200710142308.05238.gs@gesho.com> <1192556059.14547.189.camel@erato.phig.org> <1192580878.18349.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1192729462.15085.9.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Op dinsdag 16-10-2007 om 17:27 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Paul W. Frields: > On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 10:34 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Sun, 2007-10-14 at 23:08 -0400, Giorgi Shonia wrote: > > > My name is Giorgi Shonia, now I'm a student studying (Indiana University) in > > > US, Indiana, Bloomington, I'm Georgian. > > > > Great, welcome. Something about Indiana seems to breed good Linux > > folks, in my (limited) experience. :) > > > > > One thing I myself missed at fedoraproject/wiki were pages for people who > > > would like to set up and configure homeservers. Most of default configs work > > > fine, but in some case tuning is needed and if appropriate to Doc project, > > > I'd love to put up that record. > > > > This is a good topic area. A single "Fedora Small Server Guide" (or > > something) could draw directly from existing content: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts > > > > ... as well as add some more of its own. If you look at the "Fedora > > Administration Guide" you might find a way to use the same content in a > > different order, with a different introduction and content to fill in > > the missing places. > > > > So, seems like a good idea. How can we help you start? :) > > Since the guide in question is still being drafted, why not help write > it? Bart Couvreur is heading up that effort, so contact him here, > through email, or IRC FreeNode #fedora-docs to coordinate. We are happy > to have extra hands helping with this! Hi Giorgi, (consider this as an answer to your personal mail to me as well) Sorry for the late answer: I've been missing out a lot of mail this week, something wrong at my ISP. From me also a welcome to the project! These topics are absolutely fine for the Admin guide. It's always the first thing I think about when I hear of an Admin guide, so in my humble mind it would fit perfectly. > I though to start with mailserver, you think? where would the fit the > best? Well the current structure on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide needs some changing / rearranging. I was gonna try to get that done last week, but lost track of it. In other words, add a page beneath it, say http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/MailServer and start there. If you'd like to write something about another type of server, just create a new page. I'm monitoring these pages, so I'll be notified when you create new stuff. If you have any other questions: drop a note or jump in #fedora-docs on irc (I'm "couf" if you need me) Thanks for hopping in! Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Oct 19 08:13:33 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:13:33 +0800 Subject: Help Wanted Message-ID: <1192781614.2788.3.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> Hey All, Was there anything that needed working on? I mentioned transferring information from my website to the wiki but I haven't heard any feedback regarding that and I don't really want to start by screwing up the wiki. Cheers, Marc From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Oct 19 09:35:52 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 12:35:52 +0300 Subject: Help Wanted In-Reply-To: <1192781614.2788.3.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <1192781614.2788.3.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710190235g6e7336afs978a77de0a8d95d6@mail.gmail.com> On 10/19/07, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey All, > > Was there anything that needed working on? > > I mentioned transferring information from my website to the wiki but I > haven't heard any feedback regarding that and I don't really want to > start by screwing up the wiki. For the record, as you know, Marc, this is documented in the minutes from the last FDSCo meeting at http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-October/msg00063.html and in slightly more readable format at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20071014. Since we didn't have a quorum, we need to get a decision on the mailing list. So, to conclude, Bart and I (jmbuser) are behind the idea. quaid, stickster, EvilBob, mcgiwer, glezos: How about you guys? Are you in favor of using Marc's donated material as the basis for a how-to or not? Please give us your opinion, for or against. John Babich Member, Fedora Docs Project Steering Committee From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Oct 19 09:39:56 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 17:39:56 +0800 Subject: Help Wanted In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710190235g6e7336afs978a77de0a8d95d6@mail.gmail.com> References: <1192781614.2788.3.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> <9d2c731f0710190235g6e7336afs978a77de0a8d95d6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1192786796.2788.8.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> On Fri, 2007-10-19 at 12:35 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On 10/19/07, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Hey All, > > > > Was there anything that needed working on? > > > > I mentioned transferring information from my website to the wiki but I > > haven't heard any feedback regarding that and I don't really want to > > start by screwing up the wiki. > > For the record, as you know, Marc, this is documented in the minutes > from the last FDSCo meeting at > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-October/msg00063.html > and in slightly more readable format at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20071014. > > Since we didn't have a quorum, we need to get a decision on the mailing list. > > So, to conclude, Bart and I (jmbuser) are behind the idea. > > quaid, stickster, EvilBob, mcgiwer, glezos: > > How about you guys? > > Are you in favor of using Marc's donated material as the basis for a > how-to or not? > > Please give us your opinion, for or against. > > John Babich > Member, Fedora Docs Project Steering Committee > Appreciate the feedback. I didn't actually read that much into it and since my reply I hadn't read a reply regarding it so I've been waiting not knowing which way to go. Even if it isn't accepted I would like to contribute to other docs anyway. I just figured since it's the 'easiest' I would start on that area if it was approved. Cheers, Marc From gs at gesho.com Fri Oct 19 20:13:37 2007 From: gs at gesho.com (Giorgi Shonia) Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2007 16:13:37 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Giorgi Shonia (Bart Couvreur) In-Reply-To: <20071019160031.5555773900@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20071019160031.5555773900@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200710191613.45629.gs@gesho.com> Karsten, Bart all clear, thanks -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 20 14:53:09 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 21:23:09 +0630 Subject: Overview: Rewrite In-Reply-To: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> References: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <471A1655.8030108@fedoraproject.org> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview page needs a rewrite. Does any of > the word smiths here help out with that? > > Details at > > http://marc.info/?l=fedora-marketing-list&m=118136110006398&w=2 Noone interested? Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Oct 20 16:59:14 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 00:59:14 +0800 (WST) Subject: Overview: Rewrite In-Reply-To: <471A1655.8030108@fedoraproject.org> References: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> <471A1655.8030108@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <59453.192.168.1.1.1192899554.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hi >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview page needs a rewrite. Does any of >> the word smiths here help out with that? >> >> Details at >> >> http://marc.info/?l=fedora-marketing-list&m=118136110006398&w=2 > > Noone interested? > > Rahul > > -- Would I be capable of doing it? Marc From gayathri.swa at gmail.com Sat Oct 20 17:00:50 2007 From: gayathri.swa at gmail.com (Gayathri Swaminathan) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2007 12:00:50 -0500 Subject: Overview: Rewrite In-Reply-To: <471A1655.8030108@fedoraproject.org> References: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> <471A1655.8030108@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Would this work for the "free" block: Free, Easy And Efficient Free as in freedom. Set yourself free and use our complete graphical installer, bundled with the your latest and free and open source software. Our desktop and administration tools are geared towards efficiency and we constantly strive to serve the needs of our different level of users. On 10/20/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview page needs a rewrite. Does any of > > the word smiths here help out with that? > > > > Details at > > > > http://marc.info/?l=fedora-marketing-list&m=118136110006398&w=2 > > Noone interested? > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Gayathri Swaminathan gpgkey: 3EFB3D39 Volunteer, FDP -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 20 18:35:03 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 01:05:03 +0630 Subject: Overview: Rewrite In-Reply-To: <59453.192.168.1.1.1192899554.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> <471A1655.8030108@fedoraproject.org> <59453.192.168.1.1.1192899554.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <471A4A57.6020400@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> Rahul Sundaram wrote: >>> Hi >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview page needs a rewrite. Does any of >>> the word smiths here help out with that? >>> >>> Details at >>> >>> http://marc.info/?l=fedora-marketing-list&m=118136110006398&w=2 >> Noone interested? >> >> Rahul >> >> -- > > Would I be capable of doing it? Yeah. Just look at the archive link I have posted for reference above for general guidelines on what to highlight. Anyone could do it. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Oct 20 18:35:23 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 01:05:23 +0630 Subject: Overview: Rewrite In-Reply-To: References: <47158DB7.5070301@fedoraproject.org> <471A1655.8030108@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <471A4A6B.2000603@fedoraproject.org> Gayathri Swaminathan wrote: > Would this work for the "free" block: > > > Free, Easy And Efficient > > > Free as in freedom. Set yourself free and use our complete graphical > installer, bundled with the your latest and free and open source > software. Our desktop and administration tools are geared towards > efficiency and we constantly strive to serve the needs of our different > level of users. Yeah. This would work. Rahul From sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in Sun Oct 21 13:20:54 2007 From: sudheer.s at binaryvibes.co.in (Sudheer Satyanarayana) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:50:54 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Sudheer Satyanarayana In-Reply-To: <1192580807.18349.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4714A766.8070007@binaryvibes.co.in> <1192580807.18349.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <471B5236.2030200@binaryvibes.co.in> Thanks Paul and Karsten, I browsed through several draft pages in the Wiki. I would like to start with http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CommandLineSurvivalGuide The link - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CommandLineSurvivalGuide/Scenarios caught my attention. I can start writing content for the Scenarios page on the fly. I would also like to work on Desktop User Guide and Administration Guide. Please let me if there is any draft that needs to be worked on immediately. I would be glad to contribute as much as I can. Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2007-10-16 at 17:28 +0530, Sudheer Satyanarayana wrote: > >> Full name: Sudheer Satyanarayana >> City: Bangalore >> Country: India >> > > Hi Sudheer! We have a couple people working on the Desktop User Guide > and the Administration Guide, being drafted on the wiki. (Refer to > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts for more information.) I'm > sure they would love your help. John Babich[1] is heading the Desktop > User Guide effort, and Bart Couvreur[2] is heading the Administration > Guide work. You can ask them questions on this list, or find them on > IRC, at FreeNode #fedora-docs. Let us know how we can be of further > assistance. > > = = = > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BartCouvreur > > > -- With Warm Regards, Sudheer. S http://www.binaryvibes.co.in ------------------------------------------------------------------------ gpg --fingerprint 08CC8675 pub 1024D/08CC8675 2007-09-27 [expires: 2012-09-25] Key fingerprint = 9048 28D2 78C2 40A3 CD43 A2BF E0DB AD71 08CC 8675 uid Sudheer Satyanarayana sub 2048g/EBFD82E8 2007-09-27 [expires: 2012-09-25] ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 15:32:51 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 18:32:51 +0300 Subject: FDSCo Meeting Today Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710210832x12595d63occ49e82b2580f0d@mail.gmail.com> Fedorans: I am sorry that I will not be able to attend the FDSCo Meeting today. John Babich From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 17:26:28 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 13:26:28 -0400 Subject: f In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710131401m112cceceke6e032e151d31805@mail.gmail.com> References: <3263b11b0710130524q7d800f8anc136248febcf7b4e@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0710131401m112cceceke6e032e151d31805@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1192987588.31340.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-10-14 at 00:01 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On 10/13/07, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Hey all, > > > > We've just been talking in a marketing meeting about trying to get > > some documentation up for creating re-spins before F8... > > > > See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20071013 > for the IRC log of the meeting. > > > The Fedora Unity people ahve done a pretty good job with a lot of > > documentation already so we wondered about pulling it across for > > docs.fedoraproject.org - perhaps with a bit of editing and pointing > > back to unity? > > > > Is this feasible? What would need to be done? I'd be happy to do the > > work for this... > > > > Yes, let's discuss this in the FDSco meeting. I'll add it to the agenda. We'd love to have compatibly licensed docs, sure! But with them, we also really need a maintainer's time. It doesn't take much time to do that work, certainly MUCH less than the work of preparing the original doc, or the code to which it refers. The Docs project is down to very few working hands and every time someone asks whether we could use more content, we have to answer, "Sure, but we need help to keep it up-to-date." Otherwise, it's more like throwing it over a wall and expecting "someone else" to handle it, which is a recipe for outdated, withering documentation. Could some marketing people be interested in actually doing that work? Of course we would welcome the help and be happy to advise or train in any way needed. I think volunteers would be surprised at how easy it is to accomplish some of this work. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From couf at skynet.be Sun Oct 21 18:21:08 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:21:08 +0200 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-10-21 IRC log Message-ID: <1192990871.27753.22.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> 19:05 < stickster> 19:05 < stickster> Well, we don't seem to have quorum with Dimitris, Bob, and others missing today, but we can do info updates. 19:05 < quaid> ph 19:05 < quaid> oh! 19:06 < quaid> did we reinstate that kind of quorum? 19:06 < stickster> I don't recall we de-instated it, but if you say so, let's forge ahead with hubris 19:06 < quaid> there was a point where we said we could just do stuff and make it revocable just in case :) (to beat the low attendance quorum issue) 19:06 < stickster> OK 19:06 < quaid> k 19:06 < stickster> Ah, neurons triggering 19:06 < stickster> Yes, you're right. I forgot! 19:06 < couf> heh 19:07 < stickster> Let's make like Nike and Just Do It then. 19:07 < stickster> OK, first up is the subject of FedoraUnity.org docs. 19:07 < stickster> We certainly won't turn down properly licensed content, but it has to come with an agreement to maintain it. 19:08 < stickster> Am I right that we are still shying away from "throw it over the wall" docs? 19:08 < stickster> I should note that in the thread, huh... 19:09 < stickster> Hmm... apparently there are no replies other than John Babich's to that thread. 19:09 * couf not completly sure what you mean 19:10 < stickster> couf: Well, having content is good, but what we don't want is for people to hand off a guide and then expect "someone else" to maintain it from then on 19:10 < couf> ah right 19:10 < couf> I would dearly hope that wouldn't be the case 19:10 < stickster> Much better would be, "Here's a guide under an OPL license with no added restrictions, I'll help maintain it, if you help me at the outset" 19:11 < couf> if it would be so, could we just link to there docs? 19:11 < quaid> in general we have more content than people who can maintain it ... 19:11 < quaid> right, what is the advantage of moving it? as an upstream ... do we need to do anything to it? 19:11 < stickster> I'm not a big fan of having an official docs site that links elsewhere for docs for which we can't enforce standards 19:11 < quaid> if we 'fix' it, why not fix it upstream? 19:11 < stickster> Good point that 19:11 < quaid> is it docs that we can package for Fedora as a downstream? 19:12 < stickster> Still the same maintenance problem though 19:12 < stickster> If we don't want things dumped over the wall here, do we not have the same amount of work by scampering over the wall to maintain docs elsewhere? 19:12 < quaid> welll 19:13 < quaid> what if the upstream adopts our standards? 19:13 < stickster> That would be superb 19:13 < stickster> What's in it for them? 19:13 < quaid> alternately would be to move upstream here, but as you said, maintainers would be needed. 19:14 < quaid> well, it's like being a project that is included in GNOME 19:14 < quaid> you follow GNOME standards, you are on millions of desktops 19:14 < stickster> True, but docs aren't pushed to people individually 19:15 < quaid> sorry? 19:15 < stickster> Well, I just mean that people come and browse a doc on a site, but our standards don't affect the availability of that doc 19:16 < stickster> I think we need to find more of a "win-win" 19:17 < stickster> Joe's "Unofficial DoThis Guide" is going to get juice if people like and swarm "DoThis" 19:17 < stickster> Our standards impose overhead, so where's the impetus for Joe to follow them? 19:18 * stickster is sorta kinda playing devil's advocate, but is more seriously looking for ways to drive traffic and contribution to docs.fp.o for docs that deserve it 19:18 * quaid was thinking of installable docs that might get included in a desktop spin 19:18 < quaid> we follow guidelines that have been established by others because it is easier to make better docs with a common standard 19:19 < quaid> so Joe needs to believe that it is worth the effort. that "good (enough) docs" includes good writing 19:19 < stickster> *btw, by "deserve" I wasn't talking doc quality, more subject matter that merits global inclusion 19:19 < quaid> what subject would we exclude? 19:19 < quaid> ForbiddenItems aside 19:20 < stickster> Well, with a maintainer included, probably not much aside from that 19:20 < stickster> All right, I can see from this that there's a big conversation to be had. 19:21 < stickster> Yet we only had one reply to the original thread. 19:21 < stickster> We should push this back to the list for discussion IMHO 19:22 < EvilBob> Sorry I was AFK making lunch here 19:23 < couf> I'd like to see this cleared, and it seems the list isn't quite discussion-active 19:23 * quaid back from helping his 6-yo find her Secrets of Droon book 19:24 < quaid> sorry I missed on list for this; I can take those thoughts there, s'OK with me 19:24 < stickster> Well, as far as I'm concerned, we'd love to have the docs. I'm sending a reply to the list and cc'ing f-marketing-l asking if someone is interested in rolling up sleeves and maintaining the doc with us 19:24 < quaid> we could set a week to discuss and decide by next Sun? 19:24 < quaid> stickster: +1 19:24 < stickster> If others want to hew to our guidelines, that's not a bad choice either 19:24 < couf> okay 19:24 < stickster> quaid: +1 19:26 * quaid just can't imagine carrying patches to upstream docs ... 19:26 -!- spevack [n=spevack at fedora/mspevack] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 19:26 < stickster> Ugh, yeah, no fun. 19:26 < couf> oh no, please not 19:26 < stickster> I think best choice is, if it concerns the platform, and someone wants to work on it, we should carry it. 19:27 < stickster> That goes for the most minor tutorial or the biggest guide. 19:27 < stickster> Which brings us very well to topic 2, I think 19:27 < couf> yep 19:27 < quaid> rock 19:27 < stickster> Oh crap, I managed to typo on my topic in the reply I just sent to the list, sorry :-D 19:27 < stickster> So topic two is about carrying howto's. 19:28 < stickster> AIUI what this means is, "If I maintain a smaller tutorial in FDP, can it be listed on the front page of docs.fp.o?" 19:28 < stickster> To which my opinion is, "ABSOLUTELY!" 19:28 < stickster> We still have top docs listed at the top, but there's plenty of room for additional listings here. 19:28 < stickster> I've been thinking we need a redesign in line with the rest of the Project's current web sites, which might make this stuff easier to read 19:29 < couf> right, I'd even tie this in with the "oh we wanted this so long ago"-knowledge base 19:29 < stickster> But all that aside, answer's still "ABSOLUTELY!" 19:29 < stickster> Well, the knowledge base is a separate topic for a number of reasons 19:30 < stickster> (1) Need an engine for this rig 19:30 < stickster> (2) Need a relatively automatable workflow for editing answers so they can be read and translated easily 19:30 < quaid> 2 is part of 1? and I wonder what features we need to decide 1. 19:31 < stickster> quaid: good point 19:31 < stickster> We should look back on previous conversations on the f-docs-l, I'm sure we talked about this before there 19:32 < stickster> And should again, apparently 19:32 < couf> the kb could make the workflow a bit easier for smaller stuff and howto's seem to fit in it 19:32 * stickster would love a KB, makes much easier editing and fast answers for howto/FAQ stuff 19:32 < stickster> But if we're going to have one, needs to be l10n-able 19:33 < stickster> couf: Might make sense to pursue this before we front-burner Training SIG stuff 19:33 < EvilBob> are the software rules still the same, "nothing but snakes on the plane?" 19:33 < couf> stickster: ah good point 19:34 < stickster> EvilBob: What do you mean? 19:34 < stickster> OIC 19:34 < stickster> I'm not sure... I think mmcgrath was considering MediaWiki for the next-gen wiki, but porting is apparently a thorny issue. 19:34 < stickster> That's PHP based, so maybe the rules have softened somewhat. 19:35 < EvilBob> K 19:35 < stickster> But let's try to close the topic at hand -- howto's aren't a problem. 19:36 < stickster> A knowledge base is a larger topic that we should definitely investigate... dig up old conversations, figure out what has changed and how much 19:36 < couf> well as you might've read, there's a new guy in town, who has a whole bunch of howto's and is willing to transfer them to us 19:37 < stickster> Does someone want to volunteer to trawl the archives and bring a new post to the lsit? 19:37 < couf> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-October/msg00086.html 19:37 * quaid thinks we should all weigh in on-list a bit 19:37 < couf> stickster: sure, I've been thinking about this for some while now 19:37 < stickster> yeah, "Transfer" sounds fearfully like "Dump" 19:37 < couf> well with the "maintain" part added 19:39 < stickster> Looking at his site, looks like a lot of this work could have been done by him participating in the Desktop User Guide 19:39 < quaid> marc has been around, on/off?, for a while 19:39 * stickster is constantly amazed by how many people persist in "Do It Myself" against the entire philosophy of FOSS 19:39 < EvilBob> quaid: I know marc, he is one of the FU contributors 19:40 < stickster> EvilBob: Why didn't you send him our way earlier, then? :-D 19:40 < EvilBob> stickster: I try 19:40 < quaid> better late than never :) 19:40 < EvilBob> he is not real active, kind of runs in spurts as his class schedules allow 19:40 < stickster> We take all kinds here :-D 19:41 < couf> ow yeah 19:41 < EvilBob> one thing he is very good about is responding to bugs and fixes once he starts a document 19:41 < stickster> All right, so I think it would be really super if John Babich would get with Marc and get as much of his material as is legal and sensible into the DUG 19:41 < EvilBob> so we do not have to worry about things getting dumped IMO 19:42 < stickster> OK, so this is good for list discussion 19:42 < couf> +1 to DUG 19:43 < stickster> I'm composing a reply there 19:44 * stickster encourages Marc and jmbabich to work together on DUG... 19:44 < stickster> I think I remember sending someone else in that direction in the last week too 19:44 < stickster> If people follow through we should actually see some good progress on DUG and AG 19:44 < couf> stickster: yep someone popped up to do some AG writing 19:45 < quaid> which are the two 'umbrella docs' 19:45 < stickster> Awesome! 19:46 < stickster> Well, I added a couple quickies to the agenda -- 19:46 < stickster> 3. release notes update 19:46 < stickster> The PO gathering should be tomorrow night according to our schedule, good progress overall but as of now we have fewer complete translations than last cycle. 19:47 < stickster> With a zero-day update that may change, though 19:47 < stickster> The installation guide has a number of translations that appear done too, and thanks to the helpful bug filing of a number of community members there are some real significant improvements in this edition 19:49 < couf> yeah, it's been a bug creating and zapping week 19:49 < stickster> Oops, the second thing I added is silly. Zapped that too :-) 19:50 < stickster> Did anyone have any AOB items? 19:50 * couf has 1 19:50 < stickster> floor is all yours, couf 19:50 < couf> I've been looking into our bugzilla, we've got 103 open bugs there, a lot of which is about old stuff 19:51 < couf> we might want to close a lot of thoose WONTFIX 19:51 < quaid> +1 19:52 * quaid was looking in dismay at his bz home the page the other day... 19:52 < couf> which brings me to: to what extent do we maintain published docs? 19:52 < stickster> couf: Oh, GOOD ONE! 19:52 < stickster> I don't think we have a real policy at this point. 19:52 < couf> indeed 19:53 < couf> or I've missed it while going through the wiki 19:53 < stickster> I think one school of thought would be, we follow Fedora as a whole, so ~13 months 19:53 < stickster> Another would be, deprecate by release, so ~6 months 19:53 < stickster> This is for release-specific docs, right couf? 19:53 < quaid> historically I thought we followed the support for the release overall 19:54 < couf> stickster: yep 19:54 < stickster> quaid: +1, but I can tell you that personally, I can't do it. It's all I can do to keep up with IG and release notes for the most current and upcoming release 19:54 < stickster> (And you could probably argue well that I'm only doing the latter part of that with any success) 19:54 < quaid> stickster: well, let the bugs pile up for the old stuff 19:54 < quaid> good answer to "what can I do to help" :) 19:55 < stickster> +10 19:56 < stickster> So I guess I'd encourage couf to update our wiki with that policy statement, with the caveat that we do this to the extent resources allow... and contributors are always welcome to help with bugzapping for us too :-) 19:58 < quaid> aye 19:58 < stickster> couf: Sound good to you? 19:58 < couf> all right, then I'm done 19:58 < stickster> couf: Bring up a topic, inherit a task :-D 19:58 < couf> something like that yeah :) 19:58 < stickster> The curse and blessing of a volunteer project 19:59 < couf> ow yeah, I'm targetting an intermediate release of the AG the end of next month 19:59 < stickster> SWEET! 19:59 < stickster> When you are ready/willing to port to XML, let me know and I can give you help/pointers 19:59 < EvilBob> what ever happened to us inheriting docs from Red Hat? 19:59 < couf> stickster: I'll hold ya to that :-) 20:01 < stickster> EvilBob: quaid still has his teeth sunk into that AFAIK and won't stop shaking it 20:01 * quaid mumbles nothing aloud 20:01 < stickster> haha 20:01 < quaid> let ya know if anything comes of it 20:02 < stickster> See, we'd love it if they would even just do what the code guys do -- maintain it in Fedora, and branch when they want, adding bonus paid-customer material as desired 20:02 < couf> hell yeah 20:02 < stickster> But this is a very difficult sell because for a long time Red Hat has looked at this stuff as part of the value-add they provide over a community-only distro 20:02 < EvilBob> yeah I would even learn CVS/XML to work on that stuff 20:03 < stickster> In other words, once it's in Fedora under the OPL with no restrictions, nothing prevents JoePublic from scooping it up and rebranding it for his Linux distro. 20:03 < stickster> So the docs become worth less as a value proposition item 20:04 < EvilBob> the CentOS guys are already doing that 20:04 < stickster> On the other hand, you MIGHT get a valuable community of eager contributors to keep up with the day-to-day humdrum of updating how command "xyz" is used, and turn your Content Services people to doing something cooler and worth more to your customers, who as we all know only read documentation as a last resort anyway 20:04 < quaid> EvilBob: nope, the aren't quite 20:04 < quaid> EvilBob: they are doing what OPL says they can do 20:05 < EvilBob> OK 20:05 < couf> copy-paste 20:05 < quaid> right, without rebranding 20:05 < stickster> EvilBob: quaid +1, repackaging the docs verbatim, which is OPL+restrictions-legal 20:05 < f13> and without modifying 20:06 < f13> if there were a more open license anybody could come along and potentially modify/rebrand slightly and publish as their own, with references buried somewhere 20:06 < EvilBob> I have to admit I have seen the docs on their site but always look at the Red Hat version 20:06 < stickster> Ooo, Release Engineering is eavesdropping from on high! :-D 20:06 < f13> heh 20:06 < stickster> Just in case we Docs folks thought no one cared 20:06 < stickster> EvilBob: Yup, so you're seeing the exact same thing then. 20:07 < quaid> f13: but the couldn't have the same logos/branding/TMs on it 20:07 < f13> yeah 20:07 < stickster> Now, if CS moved to a more ETS-like model, there might one day be CentOS docs that say "CentOS" 20:07 < quaid> right, that would probably be exactly and all they would want to do, just rebrand it 20:07 < f13> but in this case the value is in the content itself, not the branding 20:08 < couf> yeah 20:08 < stickster> But surely there are parallels to be drawn between content and code 20:08 < f13> and rh wants that quality content associated with the RH brand 20:09 < stickster> Yup, not arguing that at all. 20:09 < quaid> f13: is this a presumption? guess? 20:09 < stickster> Well, I think it's an investment of time and people, right? 20:09 < f13> quaid: guestimate. 20:09 < f13> quaid: its the argument /I/ would make. 20:10 < stickster> What happens to CS if a big segment of content is freed, and no one there has any idea of other cool stuff folks should work on instead? 20:10 * quaid would make the same argument that the value is in the code not the branding 20:10 < quaid> but the value for RH is also the QA and etc. they provide beyond the basic content 20:10 < f13> quaid: that is the same argument. 20:10 * stickster is being a little puckish 20:10 < quaid> e.g., we just decided that we don't support docs beyond 13 months, and sketchily beyond release. 20:10 < quaid> while RHEL supports docs as long as the releas (7 years) 20:11 < f13> in the code case, the value is the brand, so if you can associate your bits with a quality brand, you get more attention. 20:11 < quaid> f13: but RHT has already proven that there is a viable business in not holding the code closed ... 20:11 < quaid> f13: so why would we make that argument about content? 20:11 < f13> but in the content case, the value is in the content, so RH wants to attach it's brand to the quality content, and prevent others from doing the same. 20:11 < stickster> f13: I'm pretty sure there are enough differences to be found between Fedora best procedures and RHEL ones that it would support CS working on a RHEL branch of Fedora docs 20:11 < quaid> same could be said for system-config-* 20:11 < f13> quaid: I'm not saying that it's /right/ 20:12 < f13> i'm just saying that I can easily see the argument. 20:12 < quaid> I think we argued past that point 2 years ago 20:12 < stickster> All right, we're off on a tangent that we want to pursue, so in an act of final fiat... 20:12 < stickster> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 18:31:56 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:31:56 -0400 Subject: Help Wanted In-Reply-To: <1192786796.2788.8.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <1192781614.2788.3.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> <9d2c731f0710190235g6e7336afs978a77de0a8d95d6@mail.gmail.com> <1192786796.2788.8.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1192991516.31340.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2007-10-19 at 17:39 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Fri, 2007-10-19 at 12:35 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > On 10/19/07, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > Hey All, > > > > > > Was there anything that needed working on? > > > > > > I mentioned transferring information from my website to the wiki but I > > > haven't heard any feedback regarding that and I don't really want to > > > start by screwing up the wiki. > > > > For the record, as you know, Marc, this is documented in the minutes > > from the last FDSCo meeting at > > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-October/msg00063.html > > and in slightly more readable format at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20071014. > > > > Since we didn't have a quorum, we need to get a decision on the mailing list. > > > > So, to conclude, Bart and I (jmbuser) are behind the idea. > > > > quaid, stickster, EvilBob, mcgiwer, glezos: > > > > How about you guys? > > > > Are you in favor of using Marc's donated material as the basis for a > > how-to or not? > > > > Please give us your opinion, for or against. > > > > John Babich > > Member, Fedora Docs Project Steering Committee > > > Appreciate the feedback. I didn't actually read that much into it and > since my reply I hadn't read a reply regarding it so I've been waiting > not knowing which way to go. > > Even if it isn't accepted I would like to contribute to other docs > anyway. I just figured since it's the 'easiest' I would start on that > area if it was approved. Sorry about the lateness of this reply, I had a very full week and weekend. But I took a few moments to look at the site and saw a number of topics that could be integrated in our User Guide and Administration Guide. Marc, are you interested in contributing there? John Babich does the DUG, and Bart Couvreur the AG. You could communicate with them here (I'd recommend that over private email so that people will see activity and be moved to help out too), to figure out what to add and in what context. There are some topics in your site that are in legally gray areas for Fedora, so those might be best left as is, or contributed to one of the other unofficial sites as desired. John and other FDP members should be able to help you get started integrating the rest. Thanks for stepping up to help out! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 18:49:36 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 14:49:36 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Sudheer Satyanarayana In-Reply-To: <471B5236.2030200@binaryvibes.co.in> References: <4714A766.8070007@binaryvibes.co.in> <1192580807.18349.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <471B5236.2030200@binaryvibes.co.in> Message-ID: <1192992576.31340.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 18:50 +0530, Sudheer Satyanarayana wrote: > Thanks Paul and Karsten, > > I browsed through several draft pages in the Wiki. > > I would like to start with > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CommandLineSurvivalGuide > > The link - > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CommandLineSurvivalGuide/Scenarios caught my attention. I can start writing content for the Scenarios page on the fly. > > I would also like to work on Desktop User Guide and Administration > Guide. Please let me if there is any draft that needs to be worked on > immediately. I would be glad to contribute as much as I can. You can work on the DUG with John Babich, and the AG with Bart Couvreur. Feel free to use this list to communicate with them; they are both very active contributors here. We welcome your help! Also, as a side note, if you can, set your email client program to use a shorter width -- around 72 characters is usually good -- and post your replies _after_ the email you're responding to, as I am doing here. It makes threads easier to read for everyone, since English language is read from top to bottom. Thanks! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From couf at skynet.be Sun Oct 21 18:50:41 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 20:50:41 +0200 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-10-21 Summary Message-ID: <1192992644.27753.41.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Attendees: ----------- Bart Couvreur Paul W. Frields Bob Jensen Karsten Wade Summary: --------- * In response to the Unity respin docs and howto's: We're willing to take in documentation of all sorts as long as we have a guarantee that the doc will have a maintainer. We encourage docs to follow our standards to make a transition easier. It's also good to check the topics and see if they fit in with the DUG and the AG, so we don't have overlap with our own docs. TODO: get the discussion going so we can take a final decision next week * Bart is going to do some research on the "we've always wanted"-knowledge base, tracking down all resources on the subject to get this implemented * Release notes: PO files due tomorrow (22. Oct), Paul will follow up with rel-eng. * We've got a lot of open bugs (103), most of them concerning old and/or outdated docs. Time for some triaging. * Maintaining of docs needs to be tied to the Fedora release process. (EOL = approx. 13 months after release). It would be great if contributors would step up to maintain some of these docs. Next meeting: -------------- Sun 28 Oct, 17:00 UTC -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 20:50:24 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 16:50:24 -0400 Subject: Release Notes completions Message-ID: <1192999824.31340.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> I completely forgot my other AOB for the Docs meeting this morning, sorry... I am contemplating doing away with the completion requirements (>90%) for all release notes components, for several reasons: 1. We don't do this with any other code in Fedora. Incomplete translations are not stifled in normal packages. 2. Nothing is lost if English appears in a translation; the content is still official, meaningful, and (hopefully) helpful in most locales. 3. Incomplete translations are a way of luring translators with instant work assignments. 4. Translation teams that rely on a single volunteer are unfairly penalized for not being able to get hundreds of strings done in a few weeks. This was pretty much my idea to begin with in FC6 (or was it F7?) time frame, so any shouts of "Of course we shouldn't have this requirement, you insensitive clod!" are best aimed squarely at me anyway. What say the rest of you? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 21 19:52:54 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 02:22:54 +0630 Subject: Release Notes completions In-Reply-To: <1192999824.31340.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1192999824.31340.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <471BAE16.70606@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > I completely forgot my other AOB for the Docs meeting this morning, > sorry... I am contemplating doing away with the completion requirements > (>90%) for all release notes components, for several reasons: If you can separate them out, I don't see a problem. Rahul From mmahut at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 21 21:12:31 2007 From: mmahut at fedoraproject.org (Marek Mahut) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 23:12:31 +0200 Subject: Release Notes completions In-Reply-To: <471BAE16.70606@fedoraproject.org> References: <1192999824.31340.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <471BAE16.70606@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <471BC0BF.3090509@fedoraproject.org> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> I completely forgot my other AOB for the Docs meeting this morning, >> sorry... I am contemplating doing away with the completion requirements >> (>90%) for all release notes components, for several reasons: > > If you can separate them out, I don't see a problem. +1 > Rahul -- Marek Mahut http://www.fedoraproject.org/ Fedora Project http://www.jamendo.com/ From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sun Oct 21 22:38:47 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:38:47 +1000 Subject: permissions pages Message-ID: <95f1114b0710211538i7a332b77yf0695a72785f7f94@mail.gmail.com> Hi Everyone, I have started the Permissions and Access control pages: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Permissions I haven't created a new page/links on the wiki before, so apologies if I've done it wrong (it all seems to work though...so far ;) ). I have just created a basic structure before work, and will add content (hopefully) soon. I'm not really sure what is meant by Access Control - so please feel free to edit! Kind Regards, Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Oct 21 23:27:48 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:27:48 +0800 Subject: Help Wanted In-Reply-To: <1192991516.31340.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1192781614.2788.3.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> <9d2c731f0710190235g6e7336afs978a77de0a8d95d6@mail.gmail.com> <1192786796.2788.8.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> <1192991516.31340.31.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1193009268.7127.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 14:31 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2007-10-19 at 17:39 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Fri, 2007-10-19 at 12:35 +0300, John Babich wrote: > > > On 10/19/07, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > Hey All, > > > > > > > > Was there anything that needed working on? > > > > > > > > I mentioned transferring information from my website to the wiki but I > > > > haven't heard any feedback regarding that and I don't really want to > > > > start by screwing up the wiki. > > > > > > For the record, as you know, Marc, this is documented in the minutes > > > from the last FDSCo meeting at > > > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-October/msg00063.html > > > and in slightly more readable format at > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20071014. > > > > > > Since we didn't have a quorum, we need to get a decision on the mailing list. > > > > > > So, to conclude, Bart and I (jmbuser) are behind the idea. > > > > > > quaid, stickster, EvilBob, mcgiwer, glezos: > > > > > > How about you guys? > > > > > > Are you in favor of using Marc's donated material as the basis for a > > > how-to or not? > > > > > > Please give us your opinion, for or against. > > > > > > John Babich > > > Member, Fedora Docs Project Steering Committee > > > > > Appreciate the feedback. I didn't actually read that much into it and > > since my reply I hadn't read a reply regarding it so I've been waiting > > not knowing which way to go. > > > > Even if it isn't accepted I would like to contribute to other docs > > anyway. I just figured since it's the 'easiest' I would start on that > > area if it was approved. > > Sorry about the lateness of this reply, I had a very full week and > weekend. But I took a few moments to look at the site and saw a number > of topics that could be integrated in our User Guide and Administration > Guide. Marc, are you interested in contributing there? John Babich > does the DUG, and Bart Couvreur the AG. You could communicate with them > here (I'd recommend that over private email so that people will see > activity and be moved to help out too), to figure out what to add and in > what context. > > There are some topics in your site that are in legally gray areas for > Fedora, so those might be best left as is, or contributed to one of the > other unofficial sites as desired. John and other FDP members should be > able to help you get started integrating the rest. Thanks for stepping > up to help out! > > -- Well the simply black and white approved stuff can be moved. I'll try and get in contact with John and Bart in what areas. I'm fairly sure they will face lots of hair pulling for the first one to two goes of this. Regards, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Oct 21 23:45:54 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:45:54 +0800 Subject: FDSCo Meeting Today In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710210832x12595d63occ49e82b2580f0d@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0710210832x12595d63occ49e82b2580f0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1193010354.7127.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 18:32 +0300, John Babich wrote: > Fedorans: > > I am sorry that I will not be able to attend the FDSCo Meeting today. > > John Babich > I am unable to attend any of the meetings because my time the meeting is held at 2-3am. I am +8 GMT which makes it fairly hard to attend the meetings. Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Oct 21 23:54:06 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:54:06 +0800 Subject: Fedora Forum Post Message-ID: <1193010846.7127.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey All, I put a post up on fedoraforum.org[1] a week ago to try and get some feedback as to what people want in the way of guides. While mentioned in the FDSCo meeting the issue is generally not guides but people to maintain those guides I get the feeling that people do not know where to look to find the information. Is there a way to package the docs so they show up in fedora itself under a package name of fedora-docs-fedoraadminguide or something along those lines. Are we able to create a submenu in gnome/kde where docs can show up there in some sort of way? While the help menu in gnome is helpful a lot of people have never looked there. The thread location is listed below. If you read it the majority of complaints are about clarity and reasons to do things (mv -i foo). Regards, Marc http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=169144 From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 22 00:30:43 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2007 17:30:43 -0700 Subject: Release Notes completions In-Reply-To: <1192999824.31340.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1192999824.31340.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1193013043.14547.545.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 16:50 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I completely forgot my other AOB for the Docs meeting this morning, > sorry... I am contemplating doing away with the completion requirements > (>90%) for all release notes components, for several reasons: I was going to bring this up this morning, but it felt like heresy for some reason. An obvious sign to do away with something if it feels heretical to think about it! Yeah, let's just include what is there and roll updates. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ruturaj at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 04:59:31 2007 From: ruturaj at gmail.com (Ruturaj) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 10:29:31 +0530 Subject: Web-based translation Message-ID: <75a9cec80710212159g71c3e88dy2b0f02a82a43345f@mail.gmail.com> A week back or so there was a thread about web based translation of strings. or something like that.. Is that live.. ? My Hindi Docs Translation is doomed for a while, my HDD is off, luckily have a backup, but that means no more further translation till I get my Fedora up and running again. a webbased tool would be a boon for me.. -- regards, Ruturaj K. Vartak http://www.ruturaj.net From couf at skynet.be Mon Oct 22 06:21:50 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 08:21:50 +0200 Subject: Release Notes completions In-Reply-To: <1193013043.14547.545.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1192999824.31340.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1193013043.14547.545.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1193034112.28226.1.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Op zondag 21-10-2007 om 17:30 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Karsten Wade: > On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 16:50 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I completely forgot my other AOB for the Docs meeting this morning, > > sorry... I am contemplating doing away with the completion requirements > > (>90%) for all release notes components, for several reasons: > > I was going to bring this up this morning, but it felt like heresy for > some reason. An obvious sign to do away with something if it feels > heretical to think about it! > > Yeah, let's just include what is there and roll updates. :) > > - Karsten Seems to be an easy one here, so a +1 too. As a result of this, will we be doing say monthly updates to the relnotes package, so this propagates to the user systems, or would we call that overkill? Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 11:42:30 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:42:30 -0400 Subject: Web-based translation In-Reply-To: <75a9cec80710212159g71c3e88dy2b0f02a82a43345f@mail.gmail.com> References: <75a9cec80710212159g71c3e88dy2b0f02a82a43345f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1193053350.1968.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 10:29 +0530, Ruturaj wrote: > A week back or so there was a thread about web based translation of > strings. or something like that.. > Is that live.. ? > > My Hindi Docs Translation is doomed for a while, my HDD is off, > luckily have a backup, but that means no more further translation till > I get my Fedora up and running again. > > a webbased tool would be a boon for me.. I think Dimitris and others are working on this right now. Please address questions about translation systems to the fedora-trans-list for better and more up-to-date information. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 22 11:45:59 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 07:45:59 -0400 Subject: Release Notes completions In-Reply-To: <1193034112.28226.1.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> References: <1192999824.31340.43.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1193013043.14547.545.camel@erato.phig.org> <1193034112.28226.1.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <1193053559.1968.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 08:21 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Op zondag 21-10-2007 om 17:30 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Karsten > Wade: > > On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 16:50 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > I completely forgot my other AOB for the Docs meeting this morning, > > > sorry... I am contemplating doing away with the completion requirements > > > (>90%) for all release notes components, for several reasons: > > > > I was going to bring this up this morning, but it felt like heresy for > > some reason. An obvious sign to do away with something if it feels > > heretical to think about it! > > > > Yeah, let's just include what is there and roll updates. :) > > > > - Karsten > > Seems to be an easy one here, so a +1 too. > > As a result of this, will we be doing say monthly updates to the > relnotes package, so this propagates to the user systems, or would we > call that overkill? I am leery about committing to monthly updates, but let's just say we're committed to doing updates, period. If and when it feels worthwhile, we'll do it. Remember that an update -- since fedora-release-notes appears on almost every system -- means you're forcing every single Fedora user (well, almost every user) to download 3 MB of an update. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Oct 22 16:10:21 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:10:21 +0800 Subject: overview Message-ID: <1193069421.27861.30.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> The first four paragraphs slightly modified of the Overview page in fedora. Reference to the base version is http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/overview . The bit below is my additions/manipulations. Thoughts would be great. ////////////////////Overview/////////////////////////////////////////// An operating system, a set of projects, and a mindset. What is Fedora? Fedora is a Linux-based operating system that showcases the latest in free and open source software. Sponsored by Red Hat who aid in developing new and exciting . Fedora is always free for anyone to use, modify, and distribute. It is built by people across the globe who work together as a community: the Fedora Project. The Fedora Project is open and anyone is welcome to join. The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the advancement of free, open software and content. The operating system is Fedora. The predictable bi-yearly releases and the continuing support for over twelve months are able to show you the users and supporters the latest advancements available in the open software world. It's completely free, and we're committed to keeping it that way. It's the best combination of robust and latest software that exists in the free software world. The mindset is doing the right thing. To us, that means providing free, innovative open software content, at no cost, freely usable, modifiable, redistributable, and unencumbered by software patents. Our partnership and sponsorship by Red Hat has enabled us to provide quality open software content to the community. This open software is providing benefits to millions of users around the globe with software contributions such as SELinux, Xen Virtualization and Smolt to name a few. The expansion of architectures have provided support for Sparc, Alpha, IA64 and Arm with many more to follow. The strong participation with the community of volunteers have helped to create improvements in the way you install and maintain Fedora. Some notable additions from the community have been Revisor, pungi and the livecd-tools where you can create your personal spin of Fedora. ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// There are a few bits there where I think I might have gone to far. Please critique as to whether I should cut some out and put it in other places. I'm hoping the page(Fedora Feature Overview) that is being discussed on the marketing list will get completed so that can be linked somewhere within this document. Cheers, Marc From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 22 20:43:42 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2007 13:43:42 -0700 Subject: overview In-Reply-To: <1193069421.27861.30.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <1193069421.27861.30.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1193085822.14547.569.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 00:10 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > The first four paragraphs slightly modified of the Overview page in > fedora. Reference to the base version is > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/overview . The bit below is my > additions/manipulations. Thoughts would be great. BTW, another way to do this is to put a draft page up in your personal wiki namespace (MarcWiriadisastra/Drafts/Overview). Then you can put in the original content, save it, then modify, save that, and capture the difference between the two: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MarcWiriadisastra/Drafts/Overview?action=diff&rev2=2&rev1=1 A diff provides exactly what changed and the context of it. In this case I just did a full edit of the original page a few days ago, so I can do a mental diff. :) For that matter, I could do the reverse here and provide you a diff of your original against my edits, but what the heck, I'll try to do them inline. :) > ////////////////////Overview/////////////////////////////////////////// > An operating system, a set of projects, and a mindset. > > What is Fedora? Fedora is a Linux-based operating system that showcases > the latest in free and open source software. Sponsored by Red Hat who > aid in developing new and exciting href="technologyhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions" > Contributions>. Fedora is always free for anyone to use, modify, and [:RedHatContributions:technology contributions] > distribute. It is built by people across the globe who work together as > a community: the Fedora Project. The Fedora Project is open and anyone > is welcome to join. The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the > advancement of free, open software and content. > > The operating system is Fedora. The predictable bi-yearly releases and > the continuing support for over twelve months are able to show you the community support ... months show the users and supporters ... > users and supporters the latest advancements available in the open > software world. It's completely free, and we're committed to keeping it [:Objectives:committed] > that way. It's the best combination of robust and latest software that > exists in the free software world. > > The mindset is doing the right thing. To us, that means providing free, > innovative open software content, at no cost, freely usable, modifiable, > redistributable, and unencumbered by software patents. > > Our partnership and sponsorship by Red Hat has enabled us to provide ... Hat enables us to provide ... > quality open software content to the community. This open software is > providing benefits to millions of users around the globe with software > contributions such as SELinux, Xen Virtualization and Smolt to name a , and ... > few. The expansion of architectures have provided support for Sparc, > Alpha, IA64 and Arm with many more to follow. , and ... > The strong participation with the community of volunteers have helped to has > create improvements in the way you install and maintain Fedora. Some > notable additions from the community have been Revisor, pungi and the , and > livecd-tools where you can create your personal spin of Fedora. > > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > There are a few bits there where I think I might have gone to far. > Please critique as to whether I should cut some out and put it in other > places. Is this the entirety of the page as you envision it? Or is this just the section that appears above the table of contents? Presuming this is just replacing those first four and leaving the rest intact. One thing is to pull out later references to what is mentioned here (SELinux, Xen); I'm working on a new section for the Board that is better than the one that mentions those technologies. I wonder how it would read to put the community paragraph above the Red Hat paragraph. Another thing to keep in mind is that Red Hat is just another community member, albeit the one with the most investment and most to lose. So it makes sense to highlight RHT's contributions as a community member in a secondary position. We also want to take care here because there are other corporate community members who contribute to Fedora, so we don't want to turn this into a Red Hat advertisement. I know Red Hat has lent us credibility in the past, but things are balancing where the credibility is going both ways. > I'm hoping the page(Fedora Feature Overview) that is being discussed on > the marketing list will get completed so that can be linked somewhere > within this document. Yes, that is a good idea. Better to link than to list them yet again ... - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Oct 23 00:00:49 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 08:00:49 +0800 Subject: overview In-Reply-To: <1193085822.14547.569.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1193069421.27861.30.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> <1193085822.14547.569.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1193097649.21565.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 13:43 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 00:10 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > The first four paragraphs slightly modified of the Overview page in > > fedora. Reference to the base version is > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/overview . The bit below is my > > additions/manipulations. Thoughts would be great. > > BTW, another way to do this is to put a draft page up in your personal > wiki namespace (MarcWiriadisastra/Drafts/Overview). Then you can put in > the original content, save it, then modify, save that, and capture the > difference between the two: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MarcWiriadisastra/Drafts/Overview?action=diff&rev2=2&rev1=1 > How would I transfer the original bits apart from an edit and copying and pasting. > A diff provides exactly what changed and the context of it. > > In this case I just did a full edit of the original page a few days ago, > so I can do a mental diff. :) For that matter, I could do the reverse > here and provide you a diff of your original against my edits, but what > the heck, I'll try to do them inline. :) > I'll try to generate diffs in the future but I didn't know it existed. Thanks for the info. > > ////////////////////Overview/////////////////////////////////////////// > > An operating system, a set of projects, and a mindset. > > > > What is Fedora? Fedora is a Linux-based operating system that showcases > > the latest in free and open source software. Sponsored by Red Hat who > > aid in developing new and exciting > href="technologyhttp://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RedHatContributions" > > Contributions>. Fedora is always free for anyone to use, modify, and > [:RedHatContributions:technology contributions] > > distribute. It is built by people across the globe who work together as > > a community: the Fedora Project. The Fedora Project is open and anyone > > is welcome to join. The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the > > advancement of free, open software and content. > > > > The operating system is Fedora. The predictable bi-yearly releases and > > the continuing support for over twelve months are able to show you the > community support ... months show the users and > supporters ... > > users and supporters the latest advancements available in the open > > software world. It's completely free, and we're committed to keeping it > [:Objectives:committed] > > that way. It's the best combination of robust and latest software that > > exists in the free software world. > > > > The mindset is doing the right thing. To us, that means providing free, > > innovative open software content, at no cost, freely usable, modifiable, > > redistributable, and unencumbered by software patents. > > > > Our partnership and sponsorship by Red Hat has enabled us to provide > ... Hat enables us to provide ... > > quality open software content to the community. This open software is > > providing benefits to millions of users around the globe with software > > contributions such as SELinux, Xen Virtualization and Smolt to name a > , and ... > > few. The expansion of architectures have provided support for Sparc, > > Alpha, IA64 and Arm with many more to follow. > , and ... > > The strong participation with the community of volunteers have helped to > has > > create improvements in the way you install and maintain Fedora. Some > > notable additions from the community have been Revisor, pungi and the > , and > > livecd-tools where you can create your personal spin of Fedora. > > > > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > > > There are a few bits there where I think I might have gone to far. > > Please critique as to whether I should cut some out and put it in other > > places. > > Is this the entirety of the page as you envision it? Or is this just > the section that appears above the table of contents? > Only the first section since doing it in sections is easier than rewriting the whole thing and trying to rearrange it then. Although my documentation experience is minimal so I'll pass to people who have more knowledge. > Presuming this is just replacing those first four and leaving the rest > intact. One thing is to pull out later references to what is mentioned > here (SELinux, Xen); I'm working on a new section for the Board that is > better than the one that mentions those technologies. > Definitely add that in. > I wonder how it would read to put the community paragraph above the Red > Hat paragraph. Another thing to keep in mind is that Red Hat is just > another community member, albeit the one with the most investment and > most to lose. So it makes sense to highlight RHT's contributions as a > community member in a secondary position. We also want to take care > here because there are other corporate community members who contribute > to Fedora, so we don't want to turn this into a Red Hat advertisement. > I know Red Hat has lent us credibility in the past, but things are > balancing where the credibility is going both ways. > Yep I'll add it to the page and see how it looks in it's entirety to get an overview if it looks like an advertisement I'll remove some bits but it's hard word the contributions without that. > > I'm hoping the page(Fedora Feature Overview) that is being discussed on > > the marketing list will get completed so that can be linked somewhere > > within this document. > > Yes, that is a good idea. Better to link than to list them yet > again ... > > - Karsten Does anyone know if the list is progressing? Cheers, Marc From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 23 07:26:54 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 00:26:54 -0700 Subject: overview In-Reply-To: <1193097649.21565.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1193069421.27861.30.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> <1193085822.14547.569.camel@erato.phig.org> <1193097649.21565.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1193124414.11244.35.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 08:00 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 13:43 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 00:10 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > The first four paragraphs slightly modified of the Overview page in > > > fedora. Reference to the base version is > > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/overview . The bit below is my > > > additions/manipulations. Thoughts would be great. > > > > BTW, another way to do this is to put a draft page up in your personal > > wiki namespace (MarcWiriadisastra/Drafts/Overview). Then you can put in > > the original content, save it, then modify, save that, and capture the > > difference between the two: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MarcWiriadisastra/Drafts/Overview?action=diff&rev2=2&rev1=1 > > > How would I transfer the original bits apart from an edit and copying > and pasting. That's how, just edit > copy > paste. > > A diff provides exactly what changed and the context of it. > > > > In this case I just did a full edit of the original page a few days ago, > > so I can do a mental diff. :) For that matter, I could do the reverse > > here and provide you a diff of your original against my edits, but what > > the heck, I'll try to do them inline. :) > > > > I'll try to generate diffs in the future but I didn't know it existed. > Thanks for the info. Yeah, there really isn't a process that we've written down, just an idea of how it might be done efficiently. Hope it helps, that's all. :) > > Is this the entirety of the page as you envision it? Or is this just > > the section that appears above the table of contents? > > > > Only the first section since doing it in sections is easier than > rewriting the whole thing and trying to rearrange it then. Although my > documentation experience is minimal so I'll pass to people who have more > knowledge. This is also where a personal namespace draft can help. You can work it up entirely how you'd like it to appear. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mike at vegasitpros.com Tue Oct 23 15:44:34 2007 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 11:44:34 -0400 Subject: overview In-Reply-To: <1193124414.11244.35.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1193069421.27861.30.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> <1193085822.14547.569.camel@erato.phig.org> <1193097649.21565.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1193124414.11244.35.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1193154274.4039.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 00:26 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 08:00 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-10-22 at 13:43 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 00:10 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > The first four paragraphs slightly modified of the Overview page in > > > > fedora. Reference to the base version is > > > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/overview . The bit below is my > > > > additions/manipulations. Thoughts would be great. > > > > > > BTW, another way to do this is to put a draft page up in your personal > > > wiki namespace (MarcWiriadisastra/Drafts/Overview). Then you can put in > > > the original content, save it, then modify, save that, and capture the > > > difference between the two: > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MarcWiriadisastra/Drafts/Overview?action=diff&rev2=2&rev1=1 > > > > > How would I transfer the original bits apart from an edit and copying > > and pasting. > > That's how, just edit > copy > paste. > > > > A diff provides exactly what changed and the context of it. > > > > > > In this case I just did a full edit of the original page a few days ago, > > > so I can do a mental diff. :) For that matter, I could do the reverse > > > here and provide you a diff of your original against my edits, but what > > > the heck, I'll try to do them inline. :) > > > > > > > I'll try to generate diffs in the future but I didn't know it existed. > > Thanks for the info. > > Yeah, there really isn't a process that we've written down, just an idea > of how it might be done efficiently. Hope it helps, that's all. :) > > > > > Is this the entirety of the page as you envision it? Or is this just > > > the section that appears above the table of contents? > > > > > > > Only the first section since doing it in sections is easier than > > rewriting the whole thing and trying to rearrange it then. Although my > > documentation experience is minimal so I'll pass to people who have more > > knowledge. > > This is also where a personal namespace draft can help. You can work it > up entirely how you'd like it to appear. > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list I take it we send requests to this list to get edit permission for our anmespace? Mike "Ditt" Dittmeier mike at vegasitpros.com pub 1024D/3F08ECFB 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] Key fingerprint = 8396 9850 E308 4EFF 1A22 6C5A 4FF5 DF6C 3F08 ECFB uid Mike Dittmeier (Just "Ditt" to my friends) sub 2048g/1E6E4DBD 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 23 16:35:46 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:35:46 -0700 Subject: overview In-Reply-To: <1193154274.4039.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1193069421.27861.30.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> <1193085822.14547.569.camel@erato.phig.org> <1193097649.21565.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1193124414.11244.35.camel@erato.phig.org> <1193154274.4039.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1193157346.11244.74.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 11:44 -0400, Mike Dittmeier wrote: > I take it we send requests to this list to get edit permission for our > anmespace? Well, it's more about gaining permission for the whole wiki; I'll check with you in IRC to get you setup correctly. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From davidsonpaulo at gmail.com Tue Oct 23 16:43:02 2007 From: davidsonpaulo at gmail.com (Davidson Rodrigues Paulo) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 14:43:02 -0200 Subject: Images on installation guide Message-ID: Hi all, My name is Davidson Paulo, I'm a brazilian Fedora Ambassador, cvsdocs-admin, trying to work in Fedoca Docs since now. :-) I was looking at the Fedora Installation Guide[1] and I saw there is no images on the entire document. This is a standard? We in Brazil are thinking to create a full-detailed Fedora installation guide that can be enough to a new user install Fedora itself even without any experience with installing Linux or any other operating system, but we not want to create another unofficial guide, but improve what we already have in hands. So, what about including images in the official Fedora Installation Guide? Thanks, * [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f7/en_US/ Davidson Paulo From mike at vegasitpros.com Tue Oct 23 16:48:53 2007 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 12:48:53 -0400 Subject: Images on installation guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1193158133.4319.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 14:43 -0200, Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: > Hi all, > > My name is Davidson Paulo, I'm a brazilian Fedora Ambassador, > cvsdocs-admin, trying to work in Fedoca Docs since now. :-) > > I was looking at the Fedora Installation Guide[1] and I saw there is > no images on the entire document. This is a standard? We in Brazil are > thinking to create a full-detailed Fedora installation guide that can > be enough to a new user install Fedora itself even without any > experience with installing Linux or any other operating system, but we > not want to create another unofficial guide, but improve what we > already have in hands. > > So, what about including images in the official Fedora Installation Guide? > > Thanks, > > * [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f7/en_US/ > > Davidson Paulo > easy enough to do. I have included images in several of my own docs, and the documentation guide covers the use of images and figures. If you have access to vmware workstation (demo even) it allows for nice screen shoots of the install process. You can even create videos... Mike "Ditt" Dittmeier mike at vegasitpros.com pub 1024D/3F08ECFB 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] Key fingerprint = 8396 9850 E308 4EFF 1A22 6C5A 4FF5 DF6C 3F08 ECFB uid Mike Dittmeier (Just "Ditt" to my friends) sub 2048g/1E6E4DBD 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 23 16:59:54 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 09:59:54 -0700 Subject: Images on installation guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1193158794.11244.80.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 14:43 -0200, Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: > Hi all, > > My name is Davidson Paulo, I'm a brazilian Fedora Ambassador, > cvsdocs-admin, trying to work in Fedoca Docs since now. :-) > > I was looking at the Fedora Installation Guide[1] and I saw there is > no images on the entire document. This is a standard? We in Brazil are > thinking to create a full-detailed Fedora installation guide that can > be enough to a new user install Fedora itself even without any > experience with installing Linux or any other operating system, but we > not want to create another unofficial guide, but improve what we > already have in hands. > > So, what about including images in the official Fedora Installation Guide? Images are hard to maintain, hard to translate, have to be changed constantly (with every test, potentially), and don't give any more information than we already do with words. The user is most often following along with the instructions, so the screen is up in front of them already. I finally put this down somewhere: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide/FedoraSpecific#ScreenshotsandImages If you are looking for something graphical to help new users who have never done an OS install before, you might want to create a screencast. To capture the screencast, it probably has to be installed in a virtual environment. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 23 17:01:57 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 10:01:57 -0700 Subject: Images on installation guide In-Reply-To: <1193158133.4319.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1193158133.4319.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1193158917.11244.84.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 12:48 -0400, Mike Dittmeier wrote: > easy enough to do. I have included images in several of my own docs, > and the documentation guide covers the use of images and figures. Yeah, understood, but please see my other reply; there are many good reasons to not have screenshots and no good reason to have them. :) > If you have access to vmware workstation (demo even) it allows for > nice screen shoots of the install process. You can even create > videos... Or, if you have Fedora :), you can use one of the virtualization options (Xen, KVM, Qemu). We *really* would benefit from screencasts, even though they are harder to maintain and localize. Good for install, also good for helping new people to contribute, etc. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mike at vegasitpros.com Tue Oct 23 19:19:35 2007 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 15:19:35 -0400 Subject: Administration-Guide Message-ID: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Ok, I'll blame my lack of progress on being the new kid on the block. I am trying to checkout the existing Administration-guide project from cvs, and finding that there is only an empty shell of a project there as well as the administration-guide-devel project. Am I checking out the wrong project, or are we just starting this project? I have a chapter for Sendmail setup and configuration I would like to incorporate the chapters into the guide as well as other docs that I plan on updating for the following areas: users and groups network dns dhcpd iptables nis ldap dovecot squirrelmail mailman apache vncserver squid vsftpd cups snmpd mrtg webalizer syslog systat amanda Mike "Ditt" Dittmeier, RHCE mike at vegasitpros.com pub 1024D/3F08ECFB 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] Key fingerprint = 8396 9850 E308 4EFF 1A22 6C5A 4FF5 DF6C 3F08 ECFB uid Mike Dittmeier (Just "Ditt" to my friends) sub 2048g/1E6E4DBD 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Oct 24 01:18:45 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:18:45 +1000 Subject: Administration-Guide In-Reply-To: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <95f1114b0710231818v7c11ad54q73252795412811f1@mail.gmail.com> users and groups > network > dns > dhcpd > iptables > nis > ldap > dovecot > squirrelmail > mailman > apache > vncserver > squid > vsftpd > cups > snmpd > mrtg > webalizer > syslog > systat > amanda > Hi Mike, I had some stuff I was going to do for DNS this saturday, if I make a start before you then please delete/re-arrange to suit your needs. Thanks for the help. Kind Regards, Murray. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) < murray.mcallister at gmail.com> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Oct 24 02:20:02 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 19:20:02 -0700 Subject: Administration-Guide In-Reply-To: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1193192402.11244.126.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 15:19 -0400, Mike Dittmeier wrote: > Ok, > > I'll blame my lack of progress on being the new kid on the block. I am > trying to checkout the existing Administration-guide project from cvs, > and finding that there is only an empty shell of a project there as > well as the administration-guide-devel project. Am I checking out the > wrong project, or are we just starting this project? That is a shell, IIRC; it is an in-progress conversion that is probably best to start from (near) scratch. Not sure, Bart may have some useful parts in his sandbox. The exact workflow is ironically missing from here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow I'm going to add in a stub. What is needed is for ... Bart: can you publish your notes on wiki => xml conversion? Then we can wrap that into a proper how-to and ref. it from the workflow page. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow#WikitoDocBookXML - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mike at vegasitpros.com Wed Oct 24 03:21:52 2007 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2007 23:21:52 -0400 Subject: Administration-Guide In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0710231818v7c11ad54q73252795412811f1@mail.gmail.com> References: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <95f1114b0710231818v7c11ad54q73252795412811f1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1193196112.5863.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2007-10-24 at 11:18 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > users and groups > > network > dns > dhcpd > iptables > nis > ldap > dovecot > squirrelmail > mailman > apache > vncserver > squid > vsftpd > cups > snmpd > mrtg > webalizer > syslog > systat > amanda > > Hi Mike, > > I had some stuff I was going to do for DNS this saturday, if I make a > start before you then please delete/re-arrange to suit your needs. > > Thanks for the help. > > Kind Regards, > > Murray. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > > > > > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list One chapter at a time. I'm converting and upgrading my sendmail doc for now. Input is more than welcome. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MikeDittmeier/Drafts/SendmailGuide Mike "Ditt" Dittmeier, RHCE mike at vegasitpros.com pub 1024D/3F08ECFB 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] Key fingerprint = 8396 9850 E308 4EFF 1A22 6C5A 4FF5 DF6C 3F08 ECFB uid Mike Dittmeier (Just "Ditt" to my friends) sub 2048g/1E6E4DBD 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mike at vegasitpros.com Wed Oct 24 19:37:04 2007 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2007 15:37:04 -0400 Subject: Administration-Guide In-Reply-To: <1193192402.11244.126.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1193192402.11244.126.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1193254624.8967.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 19:20 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 15:19 -0400, Mike Dittmeier wrote: > > Ok, > > > > I'll blame my lack of progress on being the new kid on the block. I am > > trying to checkout the existing Administration-guide project from cvs, > > and finding that there is only an empty shell of a project there as > > well as the administration-guide-devel project. Am I checking out the > > wrong project, or are we just starting this project? > > That is a shell, IIRC; it is an in-progress conversion that is probably > best to start from (near) scratch. Not sure, Bart may have some useful > parts in his sandbox. > > The exact workflow is ironically missing from here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow > > I'm going to add in a stub. What is needed is for ... > > Bart: can you publish your notes on wiki => xml conversion? > > Then we can wrap that into a proper how-to and ref. it from the workflow > page. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow#WikitoDocBookXML > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list I'm for what ever we have to do, and I would love to get this going. I think it's worth a discussion to decide on what should be included in the Administration Guide as well. Obviously we should refer to the install guide for install related issues, and it would be impossible to include configuration and use of all services and application in the Administration Guide. My initial questions would be, who interested in working with me on the Administration Guide? Here is a list of topics (not in any preferred order) that I would like to submit for inclusion: = Fedora Administration Guide = == Introduction == == System Overview == == Hardware == == Storage == == Memory == == Networking == == Remote Access == === SSH === === VNC Server === == Monitoring == === MRTG === === SNMP === === Sysstat === == Startup and Shutdown == == Users and Groups == == Desktops == == Authentication == == Backup == === TAR === === CPIO === === Amanada === === BackupPC === == Automation == == Services == == Logging == == System Updates == == WWW == === SSL === === Virtual Servers === === Logging === === Webalizer === == Email == === Sendmail === === Postfix === === Dovecot === === Squirrel Mail === === Mailman === === Spamassassin === == Anti-Virus == == Proxy == == DNS == == LDAP == == NTP == == File Services == === FTP === === Samba === === NFS === == Printing == == Security == === IPTables === === SELinux === Mike "Ditt" Dittmeier, RHCE mike at vegasitpros.com pub 1024D/3F08ECFB 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] Key fingerprint = 8396 9850 E308 4EFF 1A22 6C5A 4FF5 DF6C 3F08 ECFB uid Mike Dittmeier (Just "Ditt" to my friends) sub 2048g/1E6E4DBD 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chris at agresio.com Wed Oct 24 22:38:39 2007 From: chris at agresio.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Christoffer_Lille=E5sen?=) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 00:38:39 +0200 Subject: A self introductory Message-ID: <097EAE01-5F37-4378-BEE2-12AB715ECFF4@agresio.com> pub 1024D/3C21E23B 2007-09-07 Key fingerprint = B659 07A4 CD05 C6A5 0318 F69D D31C A4EA 3C21 E23B uid Christoffer Lilleaasen sub 4096g/15184F21 2007-09-07 Hi guys! I'm a 31 year old man from Oslo, Norway. My name is in the signature above. I've been working with networks and computer security for the last 5 years, before that I was an instructor in TCP/IP among other things. I'm currently taking a year off, studying for Security+ and RHCE certifications. I have translated student material from english to norwegian in my days as an instructor, and would like to join the Fedoraproject and offer some translation or writing in english. Primarily, I'm interested in things related to networking and security. I've been working with both Linux, Windows, Mac OS X and some FreeBSD through the years. I'm a hobbyist Python programmer, have done some Java and C as well. Best regards: Christoffer Lilleaasen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: PGP.sig Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 186 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Thu Oct 25 04:24:23 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:24:23 +1000 Subject: Administration-Guide In-Reply-To: <1193254624.8967.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1193192402.11244.126.camel@erato.phig.org> <1193254624.8967.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <95f1114b0710242124y486e1be6u30b6aa9b6e7253ba@mail.gmail.com> Hi Mike, I'm hoping to come in on Saturday and spend most of the day adding a few things. Are you doing all this on the docs/drafts wiki? Or are you doing it in docbook...I've just been adding content to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide Thanks, Murray. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) < murray.mcallister at gmail.com> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From gs at gesho.com Thu Oct 25 05:16:55 2007 From: gs at gesho.com (Giorgi Shonia) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:16:55 -0400 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 44, Issue 22 In-Reply-To: <20071024160032.E3DF973A6E@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20071024160032.E3DF973A6E@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200710250117.00476.gs@gesho.com> hi Mike, great to hear from you. >>My initial questions would be, who interested in working with me on the Administration Guide? As far as I know (Bart's email last week), Bart, Murray and myself were of few people working on this. Good to know you now. I've added this list on Saturday http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers and started filling in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/MailServer/Sendmail though if you have sendmail ready - so much the better. we just need some coordination to avoid overlap waste. Giorgi -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gs at gesho.com Thu Oct 25 05:19:20 2007 From: gs at gesho.com (Giorgi Shonia) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 01:19:20 -0400 Subject: Administration-Guide In-Reply-To: <20071024160032.E3DF973A6E@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20071024160032.E3DF973A6E@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <200710250119.20995.gs@gesho.com> hi Mike, great to hear from you. >>My initial questions would be, who interested in working with me on the Administration Guide? As far as I know (Bart's email last week), Bart, Murray and myself were of few people working on this. Good to know you now. I've added this list on Saturday http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers and started filling in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/MailServer/Sendmail though if you have sendmail ready - so much the better. we just need some coordination to avoid overlap waste. Giorgi ps: sorry for double posting, replies to digests go with wrong subject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From couf at skynet.be Thu Oct 25 06:18:38 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:18:38 +0200 Subject: Administration-Guide In-Reply-To: <1193192402.11244.126.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1193192402.11244.126.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1193293143.3886.3.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Op dinsdag 23-10-2007 om 19:20 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Karsten Wade: > On Tue, 2007-10-23 at 15:19 -0400, Mike Dittmeier wrote: > > Ok, > > > > I'll blame my lack of progress on being the new kid on the block. I am > > trying to checkout the existing Administration-guide project from cvs, > > and finding that there is only an empty shell of a project there as > > well as the administration-guide-devel project. Am I checking out the > > wrong project, or are we just starting this project? > > That is a shell, IIRC; it is an in-progress conversion that is probably > best to start from (near) scratch. Not sure, Bart may have some useful > parts in his sandbox. Well for the moment we're working on the wiki in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide Once we've got an initial version there, we should convert to Docbook and see how we want to continue: in the wiki proting stuff to docbook <-> in docbook itself > > The exact workflow is ironically missing from here: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow > > I'm going to add in a stub. What is needed is for ... > > Bart: can you publish your notes on wiki => xml conversion? Dammit, why oh why haven't I done this before. Oh well I'll get them up today or tomorrow as time permits (some small stuff still needs to be added in) > > Then we can wrap that into a proper how-to and ref. it from the workflow > page. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow#WikitoDocBookXML > Heh yeah, that should be the right place. > - Karsten Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From couf at skynet.be Thu Oct 25 06:25:52 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:25:52 +0200 Subject: Administration-Guide In-Reply-To: <200710250119.20995.gs@gesho.com> References: <20071024160032.E3DF973A6E@hormel.redhat.com> <200710250119.20995.gs@gesho.com> Message-ID: <1193293562.3886.8.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Op donderdag 25-10-2007 om 01:19 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Giorgi Shonia: > hi Mike, great to hear from you. > > >>My initial questions would be, who interested in working with me on the > Administration Guide? > > As far as I know (Bart's email last week), Bart, Murray and myself were of few > people working on this. Good to know you now. Hmm yeah, that mail didn't hit the list, I'll send it on > > I've added this list on Saturday > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers > and started filling in > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/MailServer/Sendmail > > though if you have sendmail ready - so much the better. we just need some > coordination to avoid overlap waste. Well as long as you both work in the same space on the wiki, you should be able to track the progress on the doc: you might have seen a Subscribe link on the right sidebar, clicking this for the Sendmail page will send in all wiki-changes done by other users. You could also use some regex on your UserPreferences page to get all commits to the Admin guide > Giorgi > > ps: sorry for double posting, replies to digests go with wrong subject -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From couf at skynet.be Thu Oct 25 06:31:25 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:31:25 +0200 Subject: Administration-Guide In-Reply-To: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1193293896.3886.13.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Op dinsdag 23-10-2007 om 15:19 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Mike Dittmeier: > Ok, > > I'll blame my lack of progress on being the new kid on the block. I am > trying to checkout the existing Administration-guide project from cvs, > and finding that there is only an empty shell of a project there as > well as the administration-guide-devel project. Am I checking out the > wrong project, or are we just starting this project? I have a chapter > for Sendmail setup and configuration I would like to incorporate the > chapters into the guide as well as other docs that I plan on updating > for the following areas: > > users and groups > network > dns > dhcpd > iptables > nis > ldap > dovecot > squirrelmail > mailman > apache > vncserver > squid > vsftpd > cups > snmpd > mrtg > webalizer > syslog > systat > amanda > Hi Mike, very nice list :-) I should have sent this to the list too, but I missed that somehow: Hi, I'd like to get the ball rolling, so we could have a sort of an intermediate release the end of next month. We've already got some stuff on the wiki[1] that we could reuse/extend/... The current topics list is quite broad, we might want to cut down, the further we go. So how do I see the overall picture here: * Part on basic system administration * users / groups admin * yum / yumex (basic stuff and link to the Yum Guide) * partitions, mounting, permissions * task scheduling * (add your ideas here) * Services / servers * basic services management (system-config-services, chkconfig, service, init.d-scripts) * Basic home-network stuff: NFS, SSH, * describing some broadly used servers (mail, web, DNS, samba, ...) * (add your ideas here) * anything else Just keep in mind that we don't need to cover *all* of this, the things we can tackle, we'll get done and the rest will be for later (or others to join in). So what do you think? Thanks in advance, Bart Our lists seem very similar :-) Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From couf at skynet.be Thu Oct 25 06:38:31 2007 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 08:38:31 +0200 Subject: A self introductory In-Reply-To: <097EAE01-5F37-4378-BEE2-12AB715ECFF4@agresio.com> References: <097EAE01-5F37-4378-BEE2-12AB715ECFF4@agresio.com> Message-ID: <1193294321.3886.18.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Op donderdag 25-10-2007 om 00:38 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Christoffer Lille?sen: > pub 1024D/3C21E23B 2007-09-07 > Key fingerprint = B659 07A4 CD05 C6A5 0318 F69D D31C A4EA 3C21 > E23B > uid Christoffer Lilleaasen > sub 4096g/15184F21 2007-09-07 > > > Hi guys! Hi Christoffer Welcome to the documentation project > > I'm a 31 year old man from Oslo, Norway. My name is in the signature > above. > I've been working with networks and computer security for the last 5 > years, before that I was an instructor in TCP/IP among other things. > I'm currently taking a year off, studying for Security+ and RHCE > certifications. > > > I have translated student material from english to norwegian in my > days as an instructor, and would like to join the Fedoraproject and > offer some translation or writing in english. Do take a look at the translation project[1], we always like new translators coming in. > Primarily, I'm interested in things related to networking and > security. You might want to check out the Administration Guide[2]. We're currently writing this stuff, so if you're interested to jump on the band-wagon, please do. > > I've been working with both Linux, Windows, Mac OS X and some FreeBSD > through the years. > I'm a hobbyist Python programmer, have done some Java and C as well. > Best regards: > Christoffer Lilleaasen > Bart [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Join [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From mike at vegasitpros.com Thu Oct 25 16:56:28 2007 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 12:56:28 -0400 Subject: Administration-Guide Message-ID: <20071025165628.4210E20082@ws6-7.us4.outblaze.com> I will add my content to the wiki ----- Original Message ----- From: "Murray McAllister" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Subject: Re: Administration-Guide Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2007 14:24:23 +1000 Hi Mike, I'm hoping to come in on Saturday and spend most of the day adding a few things. Are you doing all this on the docs/drafts wiki? Or are you doing it in docbook...I've just been adding content to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide Thanks, Murray. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) < murray.mcallister at gmail.com> sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 25 19:15:19 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 00:45:19 +0530 Subject: Knowledge Base For Fedora Message-ID: <4720EB47.9060603@fedoraproject.org> Hi I have filed a infrastructure request. https://hosted.fedoraproject.org/projects/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/208 If anyone in the docs team has some input, feel free to add comments. Rahul From dkd903 at gmail.com Fri Oct 26 15:29:39 2007 From: dkd903 at gmail.com (Debjit Saha) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2007 20:59:39 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Debjit Saha Message-ID: Full legal name : Debjit Saha City, Country : Mumbai (India). Currently I am stay in Ranchi in India due to my college-education purposes. But I am basically from Mumbai (india). Currently I am pursuing a Bachelor`s Degree in Engineering majoring in Electronics and Telecommunications from Birla Institute of Technology, Mesra, Ranchi-India. I am into my third semester now. I plan to write documentation for any general software available on Fedora. I have successfully completed a course in technical writing at my college. Thus I can very well handle the documentation part of any software. I have been regularly writing for our college magazine in the Linux section and also I work with my Local LUGs both in Ranchi and Mumbai. I am also responsible for the formation of a LUG in my college. I have also designed and documented websites for various organisations in the past. I am well familiar with programming on the GNU C++ compiler and also have command over scripting languages-BASH. And concerning Soft-skills, I have been actively the part of both the managerial and hospitality committee of various events both local and in the College. GPG-Keys: pub 1024D/549A7D46 2007-10-26 [expires: 2008-01-24] Key fingerprint = 59E9 C4C0 4C4F 2CEE 2149 367A 4BF0 1F7F 549A 7D46 uid Debjit Saha (dkd903 aka Debjit saha) sub 2048g/C0DE716A 2007-10-26 [expires: 2008-01-24] cheers, Debjit Saha -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Oct 26 17:31:35 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 01:31:35 +0800 Subject: overview In-Reply-To: <1193069421.27861.30.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <1193069421.27861.30.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1193419895.2735.3.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MarcWiriadisastra/Drafts/Overview I have drafted and edited parts of the original Overview. It's 1.30am my time so there might be some some incoherent parts but I was merely posting here to see people's thoughts on the concepts of what I have written rather than the editing. Although I will not be disappointed at all if you can't hold yourself back from editing. Cheers, Marc From ruturaj at gmail.com Sat Oct 27 04:50:31 2007 From: ruturaj at gmail.com (Ruturaj) Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 10:20:31 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Debjit Saha In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <75a9cec80710262150wb061657qec7e44a777a06afb@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On 10/26/07, Debjit Saha wrote: > Full legal name : Debjit Saha > I plan to write documentation for any general software available on Fedora. > I'm looking for more Indian participants, so that I can get my Hindi Document translation done on time, I'm already way behind schedule of F8, I've not even started it :P , thanks to my crashed HDD. You or any of your mates who are interested in Hindi Translation of docs using SCIM, or whatever modes, please ask them to come forward. -- regards, Ruturaj K. Vartak http://www.ruturaj.net From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Oct 28 01:25:01 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 10:25:01 +0900 Subject: Revisor Message-ID: <1193534701.2735.7.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> I know there was discussion about Revisor getting written but just searching the wiki Jeroen aka. Kanarip has put a lot of documentation up there already. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeroenVanMeeuwen/Revisor I would think this would be more of shifting it to docbook now? Just thought I would point it out if anyone was looking at adding Revisor to any guides. Cheers, Marc From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 28 16:46:45 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 12:46:45 -0400 Subject: Revisor In-Reply-To: <1193534701.2735.7.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <1193534701.2735.7.camel@strikeforce.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <20071028164645.GA29427@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, Oct 28, 2007 at 10:25:01AM +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I know there was discussion about Revisor getting written but just > searching the wiki Jeroen aka. Kanarip has put a lot of documentation up > there already. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JeroenVanMeeuwen/Revisor > > I would think this would be more of shifting it to docbook now? Just > thought I would point it out if anyone was looking at adding Revisor to > any guides. That's right. We discussed it briefly in the meeting last week and were really hoping that someone would step up to be the maintainer for these docs if so. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 28 18:00:24 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 14:00:24 -0400 Subject: Yum Guide bugs Message-ID: <20071028180024.GA30621@localhost.localdomain> Rahul, You had taken up the flag for the "yum-software-management" module (Yum Guide). I would like to assign those bugs to you if you (and any teammates you've assembled) are still willing/able to do this work. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 28 22:01:25 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 03:31:25 +0530 Subject: Yum Guide bugs In-Reply-To: <20071028180024.GA30621@localhost.localdomain> References: <20071028180024.GA30621@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <472506B5.1000509@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Rahul, > > You had taken up the flag for the "yum-software-management" module > (Yum Guide). I would like to assign those bugs to you if you (and any > teammates you've assembled) are still willing/able to do this work. In the discussions that followed it seemed many people wanted to release a combined guide. I don't know what's the status on that. If I take on bugs, can I fix and continue to release them in a separate yum guide? Also, I would like to continue maintaining drafts and content updates in the wiki. If someone else can do the conversion and check-in into cvs etc that would be great. Rahul From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sun Oct 28 22:40:50 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 08:40:50 +1000 Subject: copying content from a past presentation Message-ID: <95f1114b0710281540o4deadb63t18d613c8ffbf08af@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I made a very small start on the DNS section. Is it okay if I copy+paste text from a presentation/talk I did, or is that now allowed? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts/DNSBIND/Introduction Thanks, Murray. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Oct 28 22:43:49 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 04:13:49 +0530 Subject: copying content from a past presentation In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0710281540o4deadb63t18d613c8ffbf08af@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0710281540o4deadb63t18d613c8ffbf08af@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <472510A5.2050902@fedoraproject.org> Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi, > > I made a very small start on the DNS section. Is it okay if I > copy+paste text from a presentation/talk I did, or is that now > allowed? > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts/DNSBIND/Introduction > If it's your original content, it's allowed. Otherwise get written permission. Rahul From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Sun Oct 28 23:50:07 2007 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 19:50:07 -0400 Subject: Yum Guide bugs In-Reply-To: <472506B5.1000509@fedoraproject.org> References: <20071028180024.GA30621@localhost.localdomain> <472506B5.1000509@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <23b1fe6e0710281650k22876f3fvda78a25b4722c0d@mail.gmail.com> On 10/28/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Rahul, > > > > You had taken up the flag for the "yum-software-management" module > > (Yum Guide). I would like to assign those bugs to you if you (and any > > teammates you've assembled) are still willing/able to do this work. > > In the discussions that followed it seemed many people wanted to release > a combined guide. I don't know what's the status on that. If I take on > bugs, can I fix and continue to release them in a separate yum guide? > > Also, I would like to continue maintaining drafts and content updates in > the wiki. If someone else can do the conversion and check-in into cvs > etc that would be great. > > Rahul I would be happy to do that, would be something new so there would be a bit of a learning curve but if someone has the time to show/point me in the right direction.. -Jason From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 00:05:15 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 20:05:15 -0400 Subject: Yum Guide bugs In-Reply-To: <23b1fe6e0710281650k22876f3fvda78a25b4722c0d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20071028180024.GA30621@localhost.localdomain> <472506B5.1000509@fedoraproject.org> <23b1fe6e0710281650k22876f3fvda78a25b4722c0d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20071029000515.GA6585@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, Oct 28, 2007 at 07:50:07PM -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > On 10/28/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > Rahul, > > > > > > You had taken up the flag for the "yum-software-management" module > > > (Yum Guide). I would like to assign those bugs to you if you (and any > > > teammates you've assembled) are still willing/able to do this work. > > > > In the discussions that followed it seemed many people wanted to release > > a combined guide. I don't know what's the status on that. If I take on > > bugs, can I fix and continue to release them in a separate yum guide? > > > > Also, I would like to continue maintaining drafts and content updates in > > the wiki. If someone else can do the conversion and check-in into cvs > > etc that would be great. > > I would be happy to do that, would be something new so there would be > a bit of a learning curve but if someone has the time to show/point me > in the right direction.. I can show you any time in IRC #fedora-docs. Frankly, I think user documentation like that is much better off being maintained in CVS than in the wiki. Once it's converted the first time, making changes there is very easy. But that's up to you guys to work out. If you're happy with porting in changes using a wiki watch list, email, or whatever, it's all good. Tag me some time after working hours (my $DAYJOB doesn't afford me any regular Fedora time during the workday) and I can show you everything you need to know. Before doing so, you might want to read the Documentation Guide[1] since it has all the current procedures. = = = [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/ -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 01:27:21 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:27:21 +1000 Subject: copying content from a past presentation In-Reply-To: <472510A5.2050902@fedoraproject.org> References: <95f1114b0710281540o4deadb63t18d613c8ffbf08af@mail.gmail.com> <472510A5.2050902@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <95f1114b0710281827s7bec8ae6m3208b17c394702da@mail.gmail.com> On 10/29/07, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Murray McAllister wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I made a very small start on the DNS section. Is it okay if I > > copy+paste text from a presentation/talk I did, or is that now > > allowed? > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/UserAccounts/DNSBIND/Introduction > > > > If it's your original content, it's allowed. Otherwise get written > permission. > > Rahul > > -- Sure, I didn't copy and paste it. However, when I wrote it I did research from many areas, but now it is common knowledege. Does that mean I still have to get permission or include references? Thanks, Murray. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 29 01:27:12 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 06:57:12 +0530 Subject: copying content from a past presentation In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0710281827s7bec8ae6m3208b17c394702da@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0710281540o4deadb63t18d613c8ffbf08af@mail.gmail.com> <472510A5.2050902@fedoraproject.org> <95f1114b0710281827s7bec8ae6m3208b17c394702da@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <472536F0.4010006@fedoraproject.org> Murray McAllister wrote: > > Sure, I didn't copy and paste it. However, when I wrote it I did > research from many areas, but now it is common knowledege. Does that > mean I still have to get permission or include references? No. Facts are not copyrightable. Specific expressions of those facts are. If any material has been used substantially, adding a reference or giving some credit would be appropriate. Rahul From mike at vegasitpros.com Mon Oct 29 01:42:59 2007 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 21:42:59 -0400 Subject: Administration-guide/servers/sfind with the doc posted at:endmail posted Message-ID: <1193622179.19296.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Ok, I have finished converting from docbook to wiki. Please review and post any issues you find for the following posted doc: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/MailServer/Sendmail Mike "Ditt" Dittmeier, RHCE mike at vegasitpros.com pub 1024D/3F08ECFB 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] Key fingerprint = 8396 9850 E308 4EFF 1A22 6C5A 4FF5 DF6C 3F08 ECFB uid Mike Dittmeier (Just "Ditt" to my friends) sub 2048g/1E6E4DBD 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Oct 29 03:42:52 2007 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:42:52 +0900 (WST) Subject: RedHat Magazine Message-ID: <35775.139.230.245.20.1193629372.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> I found awhile ago a step by step guide for DNS on RedHat machines. The guide is similar to how I set up my Fedora DNS server. I was wondering what the process is with RedHat Magazine how to's since they have a fair bit in the magazine. Is it a situation of emailing the author or does it need to go through a different method. I have enclosed some links which may help/hinder people doing documentation but I thought it might be interesting. Cheers, Marc http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/09/28/customized-spins-of-fedora/ http://www.redhatmagazine.com/2007/06/26/how-to-build-a-dirt-easy-home-nas-server-using-samba/ P.S. If my email is very wierd it's because I'm using squirrelmail at the moment and I haven't set anything up :) From tchung at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 29 06:32:09 2007 From: tchung at fedoraproject.org (Thomas Chung) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 23:32:09 -0700 Subject: Looking for Beat Writers for Fedora Weekly News Message-ID: <369bce3b0710282332g1faabc21h869f1216957c616@mail.gmail.com> RE: Looking for Beat Writers for Fedora Weekly News Hello, We have two openings for volunteer Beat Writers who can cover following mailing lists: * fedora-docs-list * fedora-arts-list If you're interested in, please contact me in private. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Beats Regards, -- Thomas Chung http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung From cpanceac at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 10:45:29 2007 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:45:29 +0200 Subject: DRAFT Release Schedule Message-ID: it looks like all over this page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule we should replace 2007 with 2008. thnx. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 29 13:04:48 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 18:34:48 +0530 Subject: DRAFT Release Schedule In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4725DA70.3020504@fedoraproject.org> cornel panceac wrote: > it looks like all over this page > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule > > we should replace 2007 with 2008. > thnx. Done. Rahul From mike at vegasitpros.com Mon Oct 29 15:21:08 2007 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:21:08 -0400 Subject: What is more important at this time? Message-ID: <1193671268.3806.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> What is more important at this time? Desktop User Guide Administration Guide I am prepared to work on either of the groups, but would like to focus my time on the project the group feels would be more beneficial. Mike "Ditt" Dittmeier, RHCE mike at vegasitpros.com pub 1024D/3F08ECFB 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] Key fingerprint = 8396 9850 E308 4EFF 1A22 6C5A 4FF5 DF6C 3F08 ECFB uid Mike Dittmeier (Just "Ditt" to my friends) sub 2048g/1E6E4DBD 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cpanceac at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 15:29:44 2007 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 17:29:44 +0200 Subject: DRAFT Release Schedule In-Reply-To: <4725DA70.3020504@fedoraproject.org> References: <4725DA70.3020504@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: thnx a lot 2007/10/29, Rahul Sundaram : > > cornel panceac wrote: > > it looks like all over this page > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule > > > > we should replace 2007 with 2008. > > thnx. > > Done. > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From davidsonpaulo at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 15:59:45 2007 From: davidsonpaulo at gmail.com (Davidson Rodrigues Paulo) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 13:59:45 -0200 Subject: What is more important at this time? In-Reply-To: <1193671268.3806.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1193671268.3806.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: 2007/10/29, Mike Dittmeier : > What is more important at this time? > > Desktop User Guide > Administration Guide I think Desktop User Guide is more important because it's focused on end users, that need more help and instructions than system administrators... -- Davidson Paulo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DavidsonPaulo From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 16:10:35 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:10:35 -0700 Subject: RedHat Magazine In-Reply-To: <35775.139.230.245.20.1193629372.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <35775.139.230.245.20.1193629372.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1193674235.2938.55.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 12:42 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I found awhile ago a step by step guide for DNS on RedHat machines. The > guide is similar to how I set up my Fedora DNS server. > > I was wondering what the process is with RedHat Magazine how to's since > they have a fair bit in the magazine. Is it a situation of emailing the > author or does it need to go through a different method. Red Hat Magazine licenses content for distribution under the Creative Commons license, which is not a license we use for Fedora Documentation. If there is a body of content in RHM that would be good for Fedora, though, we can ask about having that content dual-licensed or somesuch. Don't get your hopes up, but it can't hurt to ask. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 16:13:20 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:13:20 -0700 Subject: Yum Guide bugs In-Reply-To: <472506B5.1000509@fedoraproject.org> References: <20071028180024.GA30621@localhost.localdomain> <472506B5.1000509@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1193674400.2938.57.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 03:31 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > In the discussions that followed it seemed many people wanted to release > a combined guide. I don't know what's the status on that. If I take on > bugs, can I fix and continue to release them in a separate yum guide? Yes, I thought we had decided and already combined content from the Yum Guide into the User and Administration Guides. It didn't seem to make sense to have a stand-alone guide that covers topics that are also featured/fit into the other guides. Just having a chapter to point at should be sufficient. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 16:14:01 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:14:01 +0300 Subject: What is more important at this time? In-Reply-To: References: <1193671268.3806.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710290914v37eae328yee901bdc36ea62df@mail.gmail.com> On 10/29/07, Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: > 2007/10/29, Mike Dittmeier : > > What is more important at this time? > > > > Desktop User Guide > > Administration Guide > > I think Desktop User Guide is more important because it's focused on > end users, that need more help and instructions than system > administrators... > > -- As the lead writer of the Desktop User Guide, I definitely agree. :-) Seriously, there are people actively working on the Administration Guide. The DUG could definitely use some more attention. What section would you like to work on? Any contribution you make would be appreciated. Is the DUG outline useful or should I refine it a bit more? If you have any questions, please let me know. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 29 16:24:59 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 09:24:59 -0700 Subject: What is more important at this time? In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710290914v37eae328yee901bdc36ea62df@mail.gmail.com> References: <1193671268.3806.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0710290914v37eae328yee901bdc36ea62df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1193675099.2938.61.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 19:14 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On 10/29/07, Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: > > 2007/10/29, Mike Dittmeier : > > > What is more important at this time? > > > > > > Desktop User Guide > > > Administration Guide > > > > I think Desktop User Guide is more important because it's focused on > > end users, that need more help and instructions than system > > administrators... > > > > -- > > As the lead writer of the Desktop User Guide, I definitely agree. :-) +1 We definitely want to have good coverage of sysadmin activities, it is a necessary reference for the Fedora User Guide. (Can't seem to get that new name to stick!) But the essential help for new users is more important. Also, the UG is shorter and therefore easier to get to a publishable state. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Oct 29 16:49:48 2007 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 19:49:48 +0300 Subject: IRC Log for FDSCo Meeting Message-ID: <9d2c731f0710290949r2bf86d89if766f6d263b8120e@mail.gmail.com> If someone has the IRC log for last night's meeting, post it to the mailing list and I will do the formal process and create an HTML version. Thanks, John Babich Volunteer, FDP From ml at deadbabylon.de Mon Oct 29 22:15:22 2007 From: ml at deadbabylon.de (Sebastian Vahl) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 23:15:22 +0100 Subject: The KDE-SIG needs (your) help Message-ID: <200710292315.23149.ml@deadbabylon.de> This is a request for participation: The KDE-SIG [1] is atm lacking active contributors. And we really need some help in doing our job to provide a good KDE version in Fedora - especially with the upcoming KDE 4.0 and the inclusion in Fedora 9. If you don't know how you could help us here is a list (which is also in the wiki): * Packagers: There are so many interesting packages that are not yet packaged for Fedora. Package it to improve the user experience. * Reviewers: Only a few persons are doing the kde-related reviews. Help us reviewing so that more packages could be included. * Testers: If you love KDE use the development version or the updates-testing repository and report bugs, bugs, bugs, request enhancements or features. We need your feedback to improve KDE. * Bugs: Become a BugZapper and help us with kde-related bugs. * Documentation writers: The documentation (esp. the DesktopUserGuide) is GNOME-centered. Help us to provide an equivalent for KDE. * Release Notes: The few people that are working on the new KDE-Spin are quite busy with development issues. If you want to help us in writing the release notes for the next version of Fedora we would give you all the info you need. * Wiki: Maintain http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KDE and keep it updated with end user information. * Artists: To provide a matching theme for nodoka-metacity-theme and provide an unified desktop experience. But this is not a complete list. If you're interested in making KDE in Fedora better, you're more than welcome. The list of participants in the wiki is atm not a list of active contributors. When setting up the wiki the only demand was an interest in KDE to be listed on this page. This list would be changed in the future to be culled down to the list of active (or reactivated) participants. This has become necessarely because there are only (less or more) 3 active contributors atm (plus Than Ngo). But the list indicates that there are enough people helping with KDE. If you are interested in joining the KDE-SIG please add your name to this list, answer to this mail, join us in #fedora-kde at freenode or attend the weekly KDE-SIG-Meetings (every tuesday 17:00 UTC). I will also add a topic to the agenda of the meeting next week to introduce new contributors. [2] The attendance at the SIG-Meetings is of course not required. But this way we would know of each other. And they are also the main place of discussing the next steps in the development (besides fedora-devel-list). If you have any further questions please answer to this mail or write me directly. And be sure: If your are willing to help you're welcome (regardless of your skills). :) Sebastian [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/KDE/Meetings/2007-11-06 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 01:47:44 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:47:44 -0400 Subject: Administration-guide/servers/sfind with the doc posted at:endmail posted In-Reply-To: <1193622179.19296.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1193622179.19296.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1193708864.22898.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2007-10-28 at 21:42 -0400, Mike Dittmeier wrote: [...snip...] > I have finished converting from docbook to wiki. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Am I the only one who really laughed at this? No no, NOT at Mike! (And thank you Mike for the work and the material!) Just at the idea of coverting the awesomeness of DocBook to the... well, NOT-awesomeness of the wiki. :-D -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 01:49:45 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:49:45 -0400 Subject: RedHat Magazine In-Reply-To: <1193674235.2938.55.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <35775.139.230.245.20.1193629372.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1193674235.2938.55.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1193708985.22898.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 09:10 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 12:42 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > I found awhile ago a step by step guide for DNS on RedHat machines. The > > guide is similar to how I set up my Fedora DNS server. > > > > I was wondering what the process is with RedHat Magazine how to's since > > they have a fair bit in the magazine. Is it a situation of emailing the > > author or does it need to go through a different method. > > Red Hat Magazine licenses content for distribution under the Creative > Commons license, which is not a license we use for Fedora Documentation. > > If there is a body of content in RHM that would be good for Fedora, > though, we can ask about having that content dual-licensed or somesuch. > Don't get your hopes up, but it can't hurt to ask. :) Actually, what's interesting is that after a period of time, the rights to the material revert entirely back to the author, who can license it as desired. Perhaps I should revisit my DocBook two-fer and swallow it into a section of the Documentation Guide. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 01:56:09 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:56:09 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2007-10-28 IRC log Message-ID: <1193709369.22898.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> 13:02 < stickster> 13:02 < jmbuser> John Babich 13:03 * stickster yields floor to quaid__ to run 13:03 < quaid__> oh, thanks 13:03 < quaid__> I don't even have a proper nick 13:04 * quaid__ grabs for agenda straws 13:04 < quaid__> oh, did we need/want to vote to remove the % of l10n to be included? 13:04 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 13:04 < quaid__> I think that's a done deal? 13:05 < stickster> Well, there were exactly 0 objections, so I think we could move on that basis 13:05 * jmbuser returns 13:05 < stickster> It really makes sense, since the rest of Fedora sets no such boundaries 13:06 < stickster> So +1 here 13:06 < quaid__> +1 here too 13:06 < quaid__> isn't that package spun though? 13:06 < jmbuser> ? 13:06 < stickster> This is how the current package is generated, so this generates an action item for me of "nothing" 13:06 < stickster> ;-) 13:06 < quaid__> ok 13:07 < stickster> tee hee 13:07 -!- stickster changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Documentation meeting - Revisor docs? 13:07 < quaid__> ah, thanks, yes 13:08 < stickster> I'm not sure what the purpose of this agenda item is at this point. We agreed last meeting to talk about this on list, but no one did 13:08 < quaid__> well 13:08 < quaid__> you sent a post 13:08 < quaid__> and there wasn't more after that? 13:08 * quaid__ smells a fast meeting at this rate 13:08 < stickster> There was one query from MarcW about it, but it was more asking the same question as the original post 13:08 < quaid__> yeah, we still need to discuss that, i think 13:09 < stickster> I'm happy there are people on the list doing anything at this point 13:09 < stickster> couf++ 13:09 < stickster> As long as couf keeps those folks engaged and on top of the AdminGuide tasks, progress will continue! :-) 13:10 < SgtDitt> ;-) 13:10 < quaid__> ok, so that item is bounced on the agenda until discussion occurs on list 13:10 < quaid__> newbsters++ are fun to help 13:10 < stickster> I've noticed that the reorganization of the fp.o front pages (static) now cast the wiki in the role of "developer docs" 13:11 < quaid__> hmmm 13:11 < quaid__> yah-ish 13:11 * stickster makes notes for a post to f-docs-l on this topic 13:11 < quaid__> I was thinking about 'community documentation' 13:11 < quaid__> w/ the click-through CLA we can really drive more users to write one-off stuff there 13:12 * quaid__ his having a singular inability to fix his nick, so will remain underscored for now 13:12 < quaid__> so 13:12 < quaid__> shall we poke at old wounds? 13:12 < quaid__> or what else would be fun? 13:13 < stickster> jmbuser: How are DUG efforts going? 13:14 < stickster> Anybody feel like going through bug lists to see what we can throw out or resolve quickly until ~1800 UTC or so? 13:14 < jmbuser> jmbuser: My day job is being uncooperative 13:14 < stickster> ah 13:15 < quaid__> jmbuser: probably more important than writing is coordinating other writers ... 13:15 < stickster> My sentiments exactly 13:15 < stickster> jmbuser: Might be a good chance to get a couple of the new folks on the list helping, then you do less work yourself. 13:16 < jmbuser> agreed 13:16 < quaid__> stickster: bug smashing? sure ... particular tracker? or maybe I should just start with what I own already ... 13:16 < quaid__> jmbuser: maybe coordinate a 'pile on'? refresh the tasks list and call for people to put down their pen on other stuff and take one section to finish? 13:17 < stickster> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?product=Fedora+Documentation&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=MODIFIED&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc= 13:17 < stickster> Only 99, not too shabby, and some of those are trackers 13:17 < quaid__> r-o 13:17 < quaid__> that is, right on 13:17 < quaid__> I'll start with what is assigned to me, from the top :) 13:17 * quaid__ can meet in IRC and bug smash at the same time, like HULK! 13:18 < stickster> OK, no reason to belabor this meeting then 13:18 < stickster> Maybe an AOB call? 13:18 * couf thanks: stupid me, forgot dst change 13:19 < couf> s/thanks/thinks 13:19 < quaid__> I am quite time confused, btw 13:19 < quaid__> it appears I didn't catch the tzdata update ... 13:19 < stickster> Uh? 13:19 < stickster> It's still DST here in US, right? Until next Sunday? 13:20 < SgtDitt> yes 13:20 < couf> euorpe changed today 13:20 < stickster> couf: Thanks, didn't realize that :-) 13:20 < quaid__> stickster: my clock changed last night because I didn't have an updated tzdata package 13:20 < couf> in other words, I could have gotten here :-/ 13:21 < stickster> quaid__: oops, RHEL updates! 13:21 * stickster moves to adjourn since we're all about the TZ now 13:22 < SgtDitt> what are the big pushes for F9 docs/ 13:22 < SgtDitt> ? 13:22 < stickster> SgtDitt: We REALLY need to have a DUG and an AdminGuide done. Like, three releases ago. 13:23 < couf> well yeah, that's the plan essentially 13:23 < quaid__> aye 13:24 < quaid__> yep, just those two are encompassing 13:25 < SgtDitt> finalize a list of what is desired in both guides, and I'll get busy 13:25 < stickster> SgtDitt: So if you have time and enthusiasm, please feel free to plow ahead on those. 13:25 < stickster> SgtDitt: You can work with couf, jmbuser, and other writers on the f-docs-l to coordinate big issues like organization and coverage. 13:25 < quaid__> SgtDitt: I think there is some good stuffin the tasks 13:25 < quaid__> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks 13:26 < quaid__> SgtDitt: that + the current ToC is a good start 13:26 < quaid__> we can always expand it after publishing 13:26 < quaid__> SgtDitt: how much from-DocBook have you done so far? 13:27 < SgtDitt> posting sendmail, dns, samba, squid this weekend 13:27 < SgtDitt> cleaning up my trashy pros... ;-) 13:27 < quaid__> hopefully the extra collaboration is worth it 13:28 < couf> yeah it's quite nice actually 13:28 < quaid__> anyway, the docbook conversion from Wiki isn't too terrible 13:29 < stickster> If you use a decent editor for adjusting tags it can go quite quickly 13:29 < stickster> Go Emacs! 13:29 < quaid__> ok, then ... 13:29 < quaid__> any other business? 13:29 < stickster> 0 13:29 < couf> 0 13:29 < SgtDitt> 0 13:30 < quaid__> okey 13:30 * quaid__ does the countdown dance 13:30 < quaid__> 5 13:30 < quaid__> 4 13:30 < quaid__> 3 13:30 < quaid__> 2 13:30 < quaid__> 1 13:30 < quaid__> -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 01:56:35 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 21:56:35 -0400 Subject: IRC Log for FDSCo Meeting In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710290949r2bf86d89if766f6d263b8120e@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0710290949r2bf86d89if766f6d263b8120e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1193709395.22898.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 19:49 +0300, John Babich wrote: > If someone has the IRC log for last night's meeting, post it to the > mailing list and I will do the formal process and create an HTML > version. Jus posted the IRC log -- thanks John! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gs at gesho.com Tue Oct 30 02:32:30 2007 From: gs at gesho.com (Giorgi Shonia) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 22:32:30 -0400 Subject: Administration-guide/servers/sfind with the doc posted at:endmail posted Message-ID: <200710292232.35505.gs@gesho.com> good job Mike :up: in follow up to our emails today, I thought maybe ssl part can be separated too. and as you mentioned clamav, may be "Permissions and Access Control" better be upgraded to "Security", also covering firewall and seLinux. This is especially desirable if we could depart from self-signed certificates (which is the howtos all over the web) distinguish between authority and owner, and unifying all different services (sendmail, apache, dovecot) under one certificate. and speaking of ssl, I wonder how hard should it be to establish something like ".Fedora" or ca.gnu.org, FOSS kinda certificate authority, to have our brand in online security. member sponsorship and verification based certificate community, which would take us past self-signed "certificate" without giving big bucks to Verisign&Co Giorgi -- pub 1024D/10D99509 2007-10-15 Key fingerprint = F96D 6BB7 0B1D 8432 A7E1 5F3B C65A 510B 10D9 9509 uid Giorgi Shonia sub 1024g/851B4BEA 2007-10-15 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mike at vegasitpros.com Tue Oct 30 03:47:25 2007 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 23:47:25 -0400 Subject: What is more important at this time? In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0710290914v37eae328yee901bdc36ea62df@mail.gmail.com> References: <1193671268.3806.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0710290914v37eae328yee901bdc36ea62df@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1193716045.3738.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-10-29 at 19:14 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On 10/29/07, Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: > > 2007/10/29, Mike Dittmeier : > > > What is more important at this time? > > > > > > Desktop User Guide > > > Administration Guide > > > > I think Desktop User Guide is more important because it's focused on > > end users, that need more help and instructions than system > > administrators... > > > > -- > > As the lead writer of the Desktop User Guide, I definitely agree. :-) > > Seriously, there are people actively working on the Administration > Guide. The DUG could definitely use some more attention. > > What section would you like to work on? > > Any contribution you make would be appreciated. > > Is the DUG outline useful or should I refine it a bit more? > > If you have any questions, please let me know. > > John Babich > Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project > Sorry for the delay in replay, work was... Work! I'll take a look at the docs in the am and see where I can start. I take it we can just start at one end and work our way through? I did notice we have a quick start guide as well. Is the a plan to combine these? Seems to me it would be easier to maintain: * Release notes * Install Guide * Fedora Users Guide * Fedora Administration Guide Especially if we want to target for packaging in F9. To update and complete these guides will take a good chunk a dedication over the next 5 months to revise and complete before F9. Sorry for (probably) over stating the obvious. Mike "Ditt" Dittmeier, RHCE mike at vegasitpros.com pub 1024D/3F08ECFB 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] Key fingerprint = 8396 9850 E308 4EFF 1A22 6C5A 4FF5 DF6C 3F08 ECFB uid Mike Dittmeier (Just "Ditt" to my friends) sub 2048g/1E6E4DBD 2007-09-11 [expires: 2008-09-10] -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 06:32:41 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 16:32:41 +1000 Subject: permissions and access control Message-ID: <95f1114b0710292332x7088050ayaa59e70b58876286@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have been doing a bit on permissions and access control, will hopefully be finished soon. Is anyone else keen to do the "access control" part, because to be honest, I have no idea what is meant by this. Is this SELinux stuff? Thanks, Murray. PS sorry if this did not wrap :( --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From vnk at mkc.co.nz Tue Oct 30 09:19:12 2007 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 22:19:12 +1300 (NZDT) Subject: permissions and access control In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0710292332x7088050ayaa59e70b58876286@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0710292332x7088050ayaa59e70b58876286@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <60798.192.168.1.11.1193735952.squirrel@www.mkc.co.nz> Hi Murray. This is not SELinux stuff, it's related to ACL capabilities of some file systems. All - hello again after almost a year. It's been pretty demanding time on a personal level, so I couldn't participate at all. It's back to normal and I shall start contributing again. Will begin with writing this one, should complete it by EOW. I'll also try sifting through wiki and email to figure out where is work needed the most but suggestions are welcome. Vladimir On Tue, October 30, 2007 7:32 pm, Murray McAllister wrote: |*| Hi, |*| |*| I have been doing a bit on permissions and access control, will |*| hopefully be finished soon. Is anyone else keen to do the "access |*| control" part, because to be honest, I have no idea what is meant by |*| this. Is this SELinux stuff? |*| |*| Thanks, |*| |*| Murray. |*| |*| PS sorry if this did not wrap :( |*| |*| --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |*| pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] |*| Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB |*| Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) |*| |*| sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] |*| |*| -- |*| fedora-docs-list mailing list |*| fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |*| To unsubscribe: |*| https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list |*| From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 09:22:27 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:22:27 +1100 Subject: permissions and access control In-Reply-To: <60798.192.168.1.11.1193735952.squirrel@www.mkc.co.nz> References: <95f1114b0710292332x7088050ayaa59e70b58876286@mail.gmail.com> <60798.192.168.1.11.1193735952.squirrel@www.mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <4726F7D3.8030206@gmail.com> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Hi Murray. This is not SELinux stuff, it's related to ACL capabilities of > some file systems. > > All - hello again after almost a year. It's been pretty demanding time on > a personal level, so I couldn't participate at all. It's back to normal > and I shall start contributing again. Will begin with writing this one, > should complete it by EOW. > > I'll also try sifting through wiki and email to figure out where is work > needed the most but suggestions are welcome. > > Vladimir > > Hi Vladimir, I have made a bit of a start, hoping to get most of it done during this week: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Permissions The sections in the table of contents (cli, gui, special) are the ones I am working on. Feel free to change anything, they are still very much a work in progress. Thanks for your help :) Regards, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 09:25:37 2007 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 20:25:37 +1100 Subject: Administration-guide/servers/sfind with the doc posted at:endmail posted In-Reply-To: <200710292232.35505.gs@gesho.com> References: <200710292232.35505.gs@gesho.com> Message-ID: <4726F891.2040302@gmail.com> Giorgi Shonia wrote: > good job Mike :up: > > in follow up to our emails today, I thought maybe ssl part can be separated > too. and as you mentioned clamav, may be > "Permissions and Access Control" better be upgraded to "Security", also > covering firewall and seLinux. This is especially desirable if we could > depart from self-signed certificates (which is the howtos all over the web) > distinguish between authority and owner, and unifying all different services > (sendmail, apache, dovecot) under one certificate. > > and speaking of ssl, I wonder how hard should it be to establish something > like ".Fedora" or ca.gnu.org, FOSS kinda certificate authority, to have our > brand in online security. member sponsorship and verification based > certificate community, which would take us past self-signed "certificate" > without giving big bucks to Verisign&Co > > Giorgi > > > Giorgi, I think that would be good, having "Security" covering those areas. By firewall do you mean iptables or programs like firestarter? Sorry, I have never looked at the GUI firewall that comes with fedora... Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 15:15:58 2007 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 11:15:58 -0400 Subject: Administration-Guide In-Reply-To: <1193293896.3886.13.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> References: <1193167175.4319.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1193293896.3886.13.camel@lapcouf.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <1193757358.10657.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2007-10-25 at 08:31 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > The current topics list is quite broad, we might want to cut down, the > further we go. So how do I see the overall picture here: > * Part on basic system administration > * users / groups admin > * yum / yumex (basic stuff and link to the Yum Guide) > * partitions, mounting, permissions > * task scheduling > * (add your ideas here) > * Services / servers > * basic services management (system-config-services, > chkconfig, service, init.d-scripts) > * Basic home-network stuff: NFS, SSH, > * describing some broadly used servers (mail, web, DNS, > samba, ...) > * (add your ideas here) > * anything else > > Just keep in mind that we don't need to cover *all* of this, the things > we can tackle, we'll get done and the rest will be for later (or others > to join in). Sorry I'm late to this discussion. Here are some guidelines you should keep in mind while drafting: 1. Stick to a set of basic assumptions, for instance a default Fedora installation (i.e. for now, leave out things like yumex, dovecot, or other nonstandard services/apps) 2. Focus on showing the user HOW TO accomplish something, rather than explaining everything you know about a topic 3. A good guide for the minimum administrative topics would be to go to the main menu, under System -> Administration, and provide a section for each sysadmin tool there. (That doesn't have to be a limit, just a good starting point.) It would then be fine for each one to show how to make any further configuration that is a major use case. 4. Agree to, and stick to, a best practice for each fundamental procedure, like using /sbin/chkconfig and /sbin/service for example. 5. A good outline, even if you're currently just doing a lot of porting, is a MUST for a good document. Work on an outline as a separate task, and don't worry about making anything fit until you have all the material piled up wherever it makes you happy. Once all the material's been gathered, then go back to the outline, check and revise it, and then start hammering everything into shape. Without an outline you risk having a very confusing guide that hops willy-nilly from one topic to another without any flow. The flow is what helps a reader build her skill set -- by starting with simple things, and building upon them piece by piece. These are just a few hints that occurred to me. I will readily admit that I am no expert in this area, but these are things I try to think about whenever I'm working on docs. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From davidsonpaulo at gmail.com Tue Oct 30 19:17:18 2007 From: davidsonpaulo at gmail.com (Davidson Rodrigues Paulo) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 17:17:18 -0200 Subject: F-8 Release Notes pt_BR.po Message-ID: Follow pt_BR.po for Fedora 8 Release Notes. Status: 50 fuzzy, 0 wrong, 6 untranslated. Please somebody commit it. Thanks, -- Davidson Paulo Administrador de Sistemas Linux Certificado LPI N?vel 1: LPI000132770 Embaixador Brasileiro do Fedora L?der Nacional do Grupo de Usu?rios BrOffice.org Editor da BrOffice.org Zine http://davidsonenatalia.blogspot.com/ http://unilivre.sourceforge.net/ http://medwiki.sourceforge.net/ http://natpack.sourceforge.net/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pt_BR.po Type: text/x-gettext-translation Size: 278807 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 30 19:38:11 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 01:08:11 +0530 Subject: Reviewing spec file descriptions Message-ID: <47278823.6050106@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Each of the RPM packages in Fedora have descriptions in their spec files and while many of them are good, there are quite a few ones that are vague and not descriptive enough. I think the documentation team should look into this and maybe review guidelines can include a sign-off from someone in the documentation team to verify the quality of the descriptions. This is also very good for new contributors to participate (along with kbase.fedoraproject.org when it's launched) and help out without any long term commitment involved. Comments? Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 30 20:59:51 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 13:59:51 -0700 Subject: Reviewing spec file descriptions In-Reply-To: <47278823.6050106@fedoraproject.org> References: <47278823.6050106@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1193777991.4290.83.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 01:08 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi, > > Each of the RPM packages in Fedora have descriptions in their spec files > and while many of them are good, there are quite a few ones that are > vague and not descriptive enough. > > I think the documentation team should look into this and maybe review > guidelines can include a sign-off from someone in the documentation team > to verify the quality of the descriptions. > > This is also very good for new contributors to participate (along with > kbase.fedoraproject.org when it's launched) and help out without any > long term commitment involved. > > Comments? That's an idea that has been kicking around RH docs folks for a while, but hasn't gone anywhere so far. Seems like a great time to see it through to completion! I agree with you, and also have had the experience of waiting for the long haul to get a few lines changed in a RHEL package info. By doing it as part of an overall process, we are more likely to see real changes made. There are two basic ways: 1. New tooling + human process 2. Human process We might be able to do number 2 without too much pain. One question is, how to get the change(s) committed to the package's SCM? What role for Bugzilla in this? I can imagine good requirements but what tool can could fill them? Something like Transifex for spec instead of PO/POT files. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 30 21:01:20 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:01:20 -0700 Subject: F-8 Release Notes pt_BR.po In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1193778080.4290.84.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 17:17 -0200, Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: > Follow pt_BR.po for Fedora 8 Release Notes. > > Status: 50 fuzzy, 0 wrong, 6 untranslated. > > Please somebody commit it. I'll give it a try, but am not sure what cvs tag it might need. Paul? - Karsten > Thanks, > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 30 21:19:33 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 02:49:33 +0530 Subject: Reviewing spec file descriptions In-Reply-To: <1193777991.4290.83.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <47278823.6050106@fedoraproject.org> <1193777991.4290.83.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <47279FE5.2030000@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 01:08 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Each of the RPM packages in Fedora have descriptions in their spec files >> and while many of them are good, there are quite a few ones that are >> vague and not descriptive enough. >> >> I think the documentation team should look into this and maybe review >> guidelines can include a sign-off from someone in the documentation team >> to verify the quality of the descriptions. >> >> This is also very good for new contributors to participate (along with >> kbase.fedoraproject.org when it's launched) and help out without any >> long term commitment involved. >> >> Comments? > > That's an idea that has been kicking around RH docs folks for a while, > but hasn't gone anywhere so far. Seems like a great time to see it > through to completion! > > I agree with you, and also have had the experience of waiting for the > long haul to get a few lines changed in a RHEL package info. By doing > it as part of an overall process, we are more likely to see real changes > made. > > There are two basic ways: > > 1. New tooling + human process > 2. Human process > > We might be able to do number 2 without too much pain. One question is, > how to get the change(s) committed to the package's SCM? What role for > Bugzilla in this? 1) For new specs going forward, introduce a mandatory sign-off from the documentation team. It wouldn't take more than say 10 minutes for every review and anyone interested could do it even as a one off process. 2) For existing specs, get involved in the merge review if it exists or go through them one by one and file RFE's in bugzilla for any corrections. Set Fedora 9 as the deadline to review existing packages. Sources packages are around 5000. Should be doable I think. It is possible to enhance this with more tools but that is usually a long term thing as we have seen with the plone discussions. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 30 21:34:39 2007 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 03:04:39 +0530 Subject: Reviewing spec file descriptions In-Reply-To: <1193779776.3477.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <47278823.6050106@fedoraproject.org> <1193777991.4290.83.camel@erato.phig.org> <47279FE5.2030000@fedoraproject.org> <1193779776.3477.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4727A36F.4050908@fedoraproject.org> Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > On Wed, 2007-10-31 at 02:49 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> 1) For new specs going forward, introduce a mandatory sign-off from >> the documentation team. It wouldn't take more than say 10 minutes for >> every review and anyone interested could do it even as a one off >> process. > > I'm really not crazy about this. I understand what you're trying to > accomplish, but our review process is already painfully slow. We will cause additional slowdown only if the review is otherwise complete but waiting on the docs team sign-off. Could we evaluate it as a option. Maybe mention it in the review guidelines, let us participate and then evaluate making in mandatory later on? > I'd rather let the documentation team go through after the fact and > check the description (and fix-up, if necessary). > > Ideally, the workflow would be: > > 1. New package passes review. Package goes into CVS. > 2. Translatable strings (Summary, Review, etc, etc) get emailed to the > doc team/put into some kind of queue. Ok. How can we make this happen? If anyone in the team wants to get involved and fix the spec themselves, will they get access? > 3. Translation team checks english for correctness, makes a correction > [using some sort of tool] > 4. Translation team translates strings into all languages handled by the > team. > 5. When all langs are ready, task is marked complete, committed to all > branches in CVS. > 6. Maintainer is notified that translations/corrections are done for > that package. Package picks up changes on next rebuild. Seems sane enough. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Tue Oct 30 21:53:12 2007 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 14:53:12 -0700 Subject: F-8 Release Notes pt_BR.po In-Reply-To: <1193778080.4290.84.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1193778080.4290.84.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1193781192.4290.90.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 14:01 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2007-10-30 at 17:17 -0200, Davidson Rodrigues Paulo wrote: > > Follow pt_BR.po for Fedora 8 Release Notes. > > > > Status: 50 fuzzy, 0 wrong, 6 untranslated. > > > > Please somebody commit it. > > I'll give it a try, but am not sure what cvs tag it might need. Done. cvs ci -m "adding PO file for dpaulo: Status: 50 fuzzy, 0 wrong, 6 untranslated. as per http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-October/msg00177.html" po/pt_BR.poChecking in po/pt_BR.po; /cvs/docs/release-notes/devel/po/pt_BR.po,v <-- pt_BR.po new revision: 1.75; previous revision: 1.74 > Paul? Check out this fix, unusual that it would throw an error since itemizedlist is a legal child of para[1]: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-commits/2007-October/msg00492.html [1] http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/para.html - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: