FDSCo Meeting 2008-04-16 IRC log

[Bart Couvreur]

21:10 < quaid> <meeting>
21:10  * lfoppiano is ready ;-)
21:10  * quaid is a present Karsten
21:10  * glezos waves
21:10  * couf greets you all
21:10 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- roll call
21:11  * couf Bart Couvreur
21:11  * quaid has the perpetual agenda in front of him
21:11  * couf needs to run in 20min :-/
21:11 < quaid> I do have an item or two to put in front, then
21:12 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- Installation Guide all-hands on deck?
21:12 < quaid> our window for the IG and translation viz. the release is closing rapidly
21:12 -!- RenaultR83 [n=couretca at AToulon-151-1-128-115.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:12 < quaid> and we may need a fast and furious effort to finish edits and out the door for l10n
21:13 < quaid> I was hoping EvilBob was available to statitize us?
21:13  * jsmith hasn't seen him
21:13 < quaid> it's middle of day there, might be on a job
21:14 < quaid> OK, it's nearing the end of Wed. 16 April
21:14 < couf> I know he was working on it in gobby, not sure what the status is
21:14 < quaid> right, there is something to update
21:14 < quaid> we just haven't seen it in CVS
21:14 < quaid> unfortunately we never did a final schedule for guides
21:14 < quaid> so it's not here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule
21:15 < quaid> but the usual "ten days" may/may not be sufficient for l10n of the IG
21:15 < quaid> presuming it is, we need to drop the POT over the weekend
21:15 < quaid> if we had changes in CVS we could begin to get an idea of how fuzzy and new it is
21:16 < glezos> quaid: how different is the F9 IG from F8?
21:16 < quaid> dunno
21:16 < quaid> haven't seen changes
21:16 < quaid> iirc
21:16 < couf> hmm, probably a section on pre-upgrade
21:16 < quaid> the changes aren't that big, but there is new stuff in Anaconda
21:16 < jsmith> Including the encryption stuff
21:16 < couf> and the resizing
21:16 < glezos> quaid: I guess delivering IG in translated versions couldn't hurt being delayed a few days, if needed.
21:16 < quaid> ok
21:17 < couf> I tend to agree
21:17 < quaid>  but let's shoot for better than that, unless it means missing content features
21:17  * quaid hates shipping beta docs with GA
21:17 < quaid> but, you know, it's open sourcery and all that :)
21:18 < quaid> we can do rolling   rebuilds and posts to the website so it gets progressively  better :)
21:18 < quaid> ok, action:
21:18 < quaid> by this time Thursday we need to get all changes in CVS
21:18 < quaid> so we can do an estimate on what needs to be done
21:18 < quaid> and put as many resources in Bob's hands
21:18 < quaid> to get this done
21:18  * quaid doesn't know, maybe it's all done already :)
21:19 < couf> no CVS changes yet
21:20 < couf> ow hang, on, there are some
21:20 < quaid> since March?
21:21 < couf> well, I was looking since F8, since 19 March not anymore
21:21 < quaid> only l10n
21:21 < quaid> on F-8
21:22 < quaid> right oh
21:22 < couf> right
21:22 < quaid> anything more on this?
21:22  * quaid added these items to the agenda page btw
21:23 < quaid> onward =>
21:24 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- Recruiting, retention -- training and self-documentation in the post-F9 world
21:24 < couf> go
21:24 < quaid> I'm sort of answering my own question in that topic
21:24 < quaid> but ...
21:24 < quaid> quick story:
21:25 < quaid> we have more people on the team, and as always, more to write about
21:25 < quaid> ironically, Paul is finding a bit less time to work on stuff; folks like mdious are balancing this by coming in and sucking our brains dry for knowledge
21:25 -!- red_alert [n=ill at fedora/redalert] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:26 < quaid> and once we get our heads above release waters (flood)
21:26 < quaid> was thinking we could spend a month or so working on our own training materials and self-docs
21:26 < jsmith> I think that would be great
21:26 < quaid> (simultaneous with wiki migration, etc.)
21:26 < quaid> we've actually a fair pile of training materials
21:27 < jsmith> It would help people like me who feel very much out of the loop because we dont' understand how things work yet
21:27 < quaid> and we can film Docs how-to sessions at FUDCon, then use those for new folks
21:27 < quaid> exactamente
21:27 < quaid> folks like stickster, couf, glezos, and me need to have others who are willing
21:27 < quaid> help us pour outwards what is trapped in the brains
21:27 < couf> aye
21:28 < quaid> I hope glezos GSoC projects will help with that, growing the brains who understand DL/Tx on the l10n side
21:28 -!- marek_ [n=pyxel at sativa.morph.sk] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:28 < glezos> quaid: that's the goal. create a community around our tools, etc.
21:28 < glezos> +1 for howtos.. And screencasts maybe..? :)
21:28 < quaid> and if e.g. we do get hooked up with a tech writing class, having the full curriculum ready to go is going to be a major incentive to instructors/professors, and enabler to success
21:29 < quaid> glezos: +1
21:29 -!- marek [n=pyxel at fedora/pyxel] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
21:29 < jsmith> absolutely!
21:29 < jsmith> +2 from me
21:29 < quaid> did anyone see dmalcolm's docbook-lint?
21:29 < couf> yeah, that's a very neet thing
21:29 < jsmith> I saw the announcement, but haven't looked at it yet
21:29 < quaid> from the description sounds good
21:29 < quaid> I think we have a revolution in toolchain on our hands, too
21:29 < couf> yep, would like to see that in the toolchain, eat our own dogfood
21:29 < quaid> all good timing to make automagic the obscure, etc.
21:30 < jsmith> Viva la revolucion!
21:30 < quaid> roll over dead rover!
21:30  * quaid thinks that was the wrong rally call ...
21:30 -!- marek_ is now known as marek
21:30 < couf> :)
21:30 < quaid> hmm, yeah, must remember to start talking toolchain in May
21:30 < quaid> we should be a bit ahead of the meeting with RHT Content Services folks, if we can
21:31 < quaid> ok, action:
21:31 < quaid> * focus on training and self-docs in post-F9 world is a good thing
21:31 < quaid> anything else on this 'un?
21:31 < stickster> Let's put some responsible people on the hook for this.
21:31  * quaid tried to get the important stuff in front for couf and others with wandering attention spans :)
21:31 < quaid> oh, yeah
21:31 < quaid> what have we got:
21:32 < quaid> * toolchain changes and documenting
21:32 < quaid> * overall procedures for write => publish
21:32  * couf wants to do some toolchain mastering
21:32 < quaid> * how to interact/work with the team
21:32 < quaid> couf: you are hired!
21:32 < quaid> any other functional areas for training/self-docs?
21:33 < quaid> presuming within each of those are: pages, videos, screencasts
21:33 < couf> if we get this out, it'll be a good start
21:33 < quaid> so, tools -- stickster already said he wants to do this, that, and the other; couf too
21:34 < stickster> I'd like to do:
21:34 < quaid> jsmith: will you work with me on the write => publish?
21:34 < stickster> * showing people how the Makefile works
21:34 < stickster> (Makefile.common, sorry)
21:34 < quaid> stickster: yes, sub to toolchain?
21:34 < stickster> * Fixing up a new toolchain that is less... hacky.
21:34 < stickster> We might start this as a fedorahosted project and go from there.
21:35 < stickster> This would not be a competitor to publican as much as surrounding stuff so people could use that or other tools.
21:35 < stickster> i.e. more meta than thou
21:35 < quaid> +1
21:35 < quaid> right, we need a toolchain that calls various stuff, including publican
21:35 < couf> sorry guys, need to bail out now
21:35 < stickster> It would be great if I could work on some toolchain issues now, but seeing as how it's looking like I'll be working on the IG shortly... no telling.
21:35 < quaid> we could rip out the parts that publican does and make that modular
21:35 -!- fugolini [n=francesc at host20-200-dynamic.22-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:36 < quaid> stickster: hold that thought, we'll see how it goes :)
21:36 < quaid> couf: ciao, thx
21:36 < stickster> Thanks couf
21:36  * couf keeps logging and will do a summary if no-one wants too
21:36 < quaid> jsmith: in addition to "write => publish" can you be, like, the Dean of Fedora Docs Tech College?
21:36 < quaid> couf: +1 thanks
21:37 < quaid> jsmith: not to be the do-all but to make sure we get all our gaps covered and it's nice
21:37 < stickster> Docs Whipmaster!
21:37 < quaid> we might be able to get a bit of help, e.g. get choke drunk at FUDCon and get him to promise to edit our videos :)
21:37 < stickster> Good luck with that.
21:37 < quaid> stickster: that's still me :)
21:38 < stickster> Man can hold his liquor.
21:38 < quaid> heh
21:38  * quaid has seen
21:38 < quaid> but sometimes we can fund a FUDpub like no one else
21:38 -!- uosiu [i=uosiu at 83.168.125.9] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:38 < uosiu> hi all
21:38 < quaid> ok, moving along ...
21:39 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- SSS punt to post F9
21:39 < quaid> this is one we didn't start working on early enough
21:39 < quaid> and it is now irrelevant for this release :)
21:39 -!- RenaultR83 [n=couretca at AToulon-151-1-128-115.w86-206.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Connection timed out]
21:39 < quaid> except for the marketing stuff, but that happens anyway, so we can insert it etc.
21:39 < stickster> Yup, *sigh
21:39 -!- RenaultR83 [n=couretca at 86.197.193.254] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:39 < quaid> eh, we tried
21:39 < stickster> This doesn't really put us behind at least,
21:39 < quaid> nope
21:39 < stickster> just something we should try again earlier next time.
21:39 < quaid> and frees our minds a bit
21:39 < uosiu> am i wrong or ambassadors meeting will be in next half hour?
21:39 < quaid> sure, we'll get it dialed in post-F9
21:40 < quaid> because it will be relevant for ~6 weeks of post-release frenzy
21:40 < quaid> and always useful to Ambassadors
21:40 < quaid> oh, oh!
21:40 < quaid> this reminds me ...
21:40 < quaid> I need to make sure Marketing does the talking points so we can get the l10n-appropriate announcements in gear
21:41 < quaid> stickster: unless you can spout those off anyway and make it so?
21:41 < stickster> quaid: I think we're going to be hammering those out early next week in RDU
21:41 < quaid> ok
21:41 < quaid> maybe you guys can just finish the subset that count
21:41 < stickster> Is there someone doing a cute announcement yet?
21:41 < quaid> * talking points
21:41 < quaid> * press release
21:42 -!- awjb [i=awjb at we.have.lowlatency.de] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:42 < quaid> * cute announcement?
21:42 < quaid> not yet :)
21:42 < quaid> we need the talking points first, to be honest
21:42 < quaid> but getting someone on ...
21:42 < stickster> Very much so.
21:42 < quaid> how about
21:42 < quaid> jonrob isn't around, I nominate we ask him :)
21:42 < stickster> That's a great idea.
21:42  * quaid yawns and stretches and almost takes out the guy next to him at the cafe
21:43 < quaid> I'll email him and ask him if he wanna
21:43 -!- merouen [n=merouen at adsl196-251-212-206-196.adsl196-7.iam.net.ma] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:44 < glezos> action item: Encourage L10n folks to write their own announcements in a localized fashion (local idioms, etc).
21:44 < stickster> quaid: Super
21:44 < quaid> glezos: +1 thanks
21:45 < quaid> glezos: I want to get these points ready before announcing, I think
21:45 < quaid> and to fix up the "how to" pages
21:45 < glezos> quaid: we'll definitely need them before announcing.
21:45 < glezos> please please get them 1-2 days before.
21:46 < quaid> well, we could have this all ready for us by Wed of next week
21:46 < quaid> 23 April soon enough?
21:46 < glezos> quaid: sure.
21:47 < quaid> ok
21:47 < glezos> awesome
21:48 < jsmith> Sorry guys... I've gotta run... remote family showed up unexpectedly
21:48 < jsmith> (drove eight hours to get here too)
21:48 -!- jsmith is now known as jsmith-away
21:48 < stickster> quaid: I've got talking points on the agenda.
21:48 < stickster> sorry, my agenda for RDU
21:49  * stickster tries not to be confus{ed,ing} as he moves from virtdesktop to virtdesktop.
21:49 < stickster> OK, I have to jet too. Must work on a couple things before my preso tonight.
21:50 -!- viking-ice [n=johannbg at 157-157-83-101.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:50 < quaid> ok
21:50 < quaid> stickster: I'm putting you guys on the hook for it on Marketing/Tasks
21:51 -!- fabian_a [n=fabian at 77-57-95-219.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit ["Leaving"]
21:51  * stickster needs another minder just to keep track of all the todo lists in different places.
21:52 -!- fab_ [n=fab at 77-57-95-219.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:52 < merouen> hello , the  EMEA meeting was canceled ?
21:52 -!- fab_ [n=fab at 77-57-95-219.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Client Quit]
21:53 < glezos> stickster: freemind (java) maybe.
21:53 -!- fabian_a [n=fabian at 77-57-95-219.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #fedora-meeting
21:53 < quaid> merouen: I think it's not yet
21:53 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk
21:53 < merouen> all right
21:53 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel
21:54 < stickster> glezos: More to the point, it would be good if we had tickets for every old thing under the sun in a project-wide Trac.
21:54 < quaid> merouen: it's at 2000 UTC
21:54 < quaid> hmmm
21:54 < glezos> yeah.. (i thought personal todos)
21:54 < quaid> stickster: are you thinking ...
21:54 < merouen> ok
21:54 < quaid> stickster: fedorahosted.org/docs-land?
21:54 < stickster> The apps exist, we just need one for Fedora that's universally accessible and tracks to everyone through their personal favorite apps
21:54 < quaid> and put the toolchain in that?
21:54 < stickster> quaid: something like that
21:55 < quaid> right
21:55 < stickster> fedora-docs-tools
21:55 < quaid> make that part of "self-doc" :)
21:55 < stickster> or fedora-doc-utils
21:55 < quaid> yeah, separate projects is actually best
21:55 -!- Netsplit brown.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: slack
21:55 < quaid> but aggregating the to-do lists, yes, that is the pita
21:55 < glezos> maybe fedora-docs-devel. <evil-grin>
21:56 -!- Netsplit over, joins: slack
21:56 < quaid> ;-P
21:56 < quaid> re-publican?
21:56 < quaid> ok, here, for the record:
21:56  * stickster smacks quaid  ;-)
21:56 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- round up of content status
21:56 < quaid> IG - discussed
21:57 < quaid> relnotes - all built for GA?  9+ languages at 100%
21:57 < quaid> UG - love me!  need to work on this *and* IG, but IG has to take precedent
21:57 < stickster> quaid: Just making some last cleanup changes
21:58 < quaid> SMG - hmmm .... was going to get couf to look at that conversion; maybe paul and I need to stop being lame and do that? j/k!
21:58 < quaid>  -- SMG needs a post
21:58 < quaid>  -- SMG needs a post XML conversion checkover to give jsmith any pointers, etc.
21:58 -!- jsmith-away is now known as jsmith
21:58 < jsmith> +1
21:58 < quaid> Security Guide -- just how-to setup encryption post-install for now, Sparks has plans here for a full guide, discussed with Fedora Security Team :)
21:59 < quaid> AG -- post F9 work, as agreed previously
21:59 < quaid> anything else in our one remaining minute?
21:59 < quaid> 30 seconds left :)
21:59 < quaid> 3
21:59 < quaid> 2
22:00 < quaid> 1
22:00 < quaid> </meeting>
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