From stickster at gmail.com Fri Aug 1 02:27:04 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2008 22:27:04 -0400 Subject: Fedora Project Board Recap 2008-07-29 In-Reply-To: References: <1217547182.10873.41.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <1217557624.21786.22.camel@victoria> On Thu, 2008-07-31 at 19:54 -0400, Jon Stanley wrote: > On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 7:33 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > # FESCo should track bug 438225 since this falls into their mandate > > So tracking :) > > > # ACTION :: Paul - Request contributor to produce statistics for review > > queue on a regular basis in Fedora Weekly news > > This should be trivial to provide as a weekly report, using > infrastructure that I already have around (and some new stuff for more > interesting statistics - like the number of bugs blocking FE-LEGAL, > FE-NEEDSPONSOR, etc). Where should it go? There's a Development beat in FWN which is run by Oisin Feeley. I'd suggest coordinating a location with him, and then he can simply include that information in the beat. Over time it would be a very good idea to grow a history of this data to graph. > > # ACTION :: Karsten - On Docs team, drive priority wiki gardening of the > > packaging and package review guidelines to make contributor uptake > > easier > > Issue is that FPC owns these pages and has them locked down (for good > reason - we don't want to say that proprietary software is OK in > Fedora, for example - since those pages dictate official policy that's > set by FPC) Right, these could easily be copied and repaired elsewhere, and moved into place upon acceptance by the packaging committee/FESCo. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Aug 1 12:02:20 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2008 08:02:20 -0400 Subject: Publican testing needed! Message-ID: <1217592140.5431.6.camel@victoria> Hey folks, Jeff Fearn was good enough to roll up an update for publican in Fedora 9. It's in Bodhi right now and should be in the yum updates-testing repository soon-ish. Please try it out and give karma votes at the bodhi page: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/F9/pending/publican-fedora-0.13-0.fc9,publican-0.34-0.fc9 You can also download the RPMs there if you prefer. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Aug 7 15:32:41 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:32:41 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-06 IRC log Message-ID: <1218123161.16620.52.camel@calliope.phig.org> HTML version: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20080806 Check out the new Meeting: namespace! ;-D 12:05 < quaid> 12:05 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Docs - roll call, greets 12:05 * quaid is here :) 12:05 * ianweller 12:06 * jsmith is here 12:06 * Sparks here 12:06 -!- abadger19991 [n=abadger1 at 65.78.187.8] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:06 < quaid> agenda is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting 12:06 -!- abadger1999 [n=abadger1 at 65.78.187.8] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:06 < G> I'm here :) 12:06 * ke4qqq is here 12:07 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr at fedora/JSchmitt] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 12:07 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Docs - Wiki namespaces discussion 12:07 < stickster> quaid: I just added something to that agenda 12:07 < quaid> ok 12:07 < quaid> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-July/msg00092.html 12:07 < quaid> that is the RFC currently under discussion 12:08 < G> quaid: might be something to pull out my original e-mail to docs/websites too 12:08 * ianweller wonders whether we should say "Documentation Project" or "Docs Project" now that we're moving to spaces/full names 12:08 -!- abadger1999 [n=abadger1 at 65.78.187.8] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:08 -!- rvokal [n=radek at ip-89-102-32-70.karneval.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:09 < G> quaid: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-July/msg00015.html - the original namespace discussion 12:09 * quaid was replying onlist too 12:09 < quaid> ianweller: people say Docs, like it or not, so I gave up on that a bit ago; but worth standardizing, yes :) 12:10 * ianweller wonders how google-friendly that is 12:10 < quaid> G: yes, but that is a bit farther down in the agenda 12:10 -!- mether [n=sundaram at nat/redhat-in/x-6f9c178ba5415a81] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:10 < G> quaid: errr the 'namespaces' got me, oop :0 12:10 < quaid> ianweller: hard to say; techie people seem to always use 'docs' but documenters prefer 'documentation' 12:11 < quaid> G: yep, sorry :) 12:11 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Docs - wiki page naming discussion 12:11 < quaid> that's what I meant :) 12:11 * ianweller googles for "fedora documentation" and sees if he gets DocsProject. 12:11 < quaid> ok, so are there any questions about the RFC? 12:12 < ianweller> we know why, and we know where to move things. how to do it though? 12:12 < quaid> one thing before that 12:13 < quaid> is everyone comfortable with Docs making this decision and putting it forward as done to the contributor community? 12:13 < Sparks> +1 12:13 < quaid> v. sending an RFC to f-devel-l :D 12:13 < ianweller> no. we have an RFC, we need a policy that contributors can follow, i think 12:13 < G> quaid: I disagree with mass transclusion btw 12:13 < G> (of content pages) 12:13 < ke4qqq> quaid: +1 12:13 < ianweller> i don't think what we have now is in policy state 12:13 < quaid> G: you mean, my idea of building a guide is mass transclusion? 12:13 < quaid> ianweller: right, but ... 12:14 < ianweller> and, to the new user, i think it's a bit confusing 12:14 < quaid> the biggest point of contention is going to be the stupid naming 12:14 < quaid> +1 that it is *not* a policy 12:14 < G> quaid: correct 12:14 < quaid> and needs sto be 12:14 < ianweller> that's a good "ok here's how we're *moving* it" page, but we need something that says "this is how the wiki is organized, deal with it" 12:14 < ianweller> yeah 12:14 < quaid> G: is it that much of a performance hit difference? 12:15 < quaid> I thought each section was separate in the db anyway 12:15 < quaid> ianweller: but are you comfortable with us making all that policy and not taking argument about it? 12:15 < ianweller> yes. 12:16 < quaid> I mean, the Packaging Committee has a process to get changes approved; this would be like that, don't just bitch on a mailing list but bring a real proposal. 12:16 < quaid> stickster: how about you? 12:16 < G> quaid: I think the difference is, it can pull an entire page in one query, where as for transclusions it had to keep making queries 12:16 < quaid> G: ok 12:16 < stickster> Sorry, there is a conversation going on here that I am trying to shut out so I can catch up here 12:16 < G> I may be wrong, I havn't had my morning coffee and I'm just running off memory :) 12:17 < quaid> g: it might have been a mis-guided solution to a non-problem; definitely we should set a policy on that, maybe a limit on the # of sections to transclude? 12:17 < quaid> G: ouch, sorry, it _is_ early there 12:17 -!- dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone 12:17 < stickster> quaid: OK, the RFC is to use "real languge" for page titles, and categories to organize pages ? 12:18 < G> quaid: I think the proper solution would be to say: split the document in three bits or so (to avoid it getting too large) 12:18 < ianweller> G: split the document in, say, 20KB bits, so that it's unlikely for pages to go over 32KB? 12:18 < G> "General Policies", "RPM Issues", "Technical Policies" type thing 12:19 < quaid> stickster: ok, here's the question I asked you: 12:19 * ianweller still doesn't know what sort of performance hit transcluding lots of pages takes, and wonders if #mediawiki knows 12:19 < G> ianweller: I dont consider the 32KB rule as a general policy 12:19 * stickster apologizes, too many concurrent inputs :-) 12:19 < quaid> "Are we OK with Docs making the policy for wiki structure, including naming, and pushing it forward as "done until you formally help change it"?" 12:19 < G> the 32KB warning comes from some browsers not been able to cope with it iirc 12:19 < ianweller> G: well, right. so in my mind, anything larger than 32KB is right out 12:20 < quaid> ianweller: but you said Packaging_Guidelines needs to be one page :) 12:20 < G> ianweller: I don't know of any browsers these days that have such a problem 12:20 < stickster> quaid: +1 on that. 12:20 < quaid> stickster: ok! :) 12:20 < stickster> quaid: The day belongs to those who seize it. 12:20 * ianweller is a hypocrite again, damn! 12:20 < quaid> carpe seizem 12:20 * ianweller goes to get more tea 12:20 < quaid> ok, then 12:20 < quaid> just to recap: 12:20 < stickster> ianweller wants to eat his cake and have it too :-D 12:20 < quaid> * we agree we are empowered to do this 12:20 < G> quaid: I disagree with transcluding it, I'd favour logical splitting :) 12:21 * ianweller goes back through his head and rehashes out what he wants 12:21 < quaid> * we need to convert the Help:Wiki_structure to a policy page 12:21 < stickster> G: I think you can really do both at will. 12:21 < stickster> It's kind of a red herring issue. 12:22 < G> (It's currently 52KB so a split in two - General Packaging Guidelines, Technical Packaging Guidelines 12:22 < quaid> ok, that's later in the agnedna :) 12:22 < quaid> let's finish with page naming 12:23 < quaid> Ian's point on list about not splitting the P_G too small is noted/OK 12:23 -!- abadger19991 [n=abadger1 at 65.78.187.8] has quit [No route to host] 12:23 < ianweller> right now we already split P_G into different sections for specific languages, btw 12:23 < quaid> so, on naming 12:24 < quaid> an no Sub/Pages 12:24 < quaid> all happy with that? 12:24 < quaid> I think we need a bit of list discussion, too, fwiw 12:24 < G> I disagree 12:24 < G> I have a technical arguement too that I just remembered 12:24 < ianweller> is the no Sub/Pages a soft limit, meaning we still have Artwork/Join? 12:24 < ianweller> G: mm? 12:24 < quaid> ianweller: not a soft limit IMO 12:25 -!- dstimson [n=dale at 68-185-24-58.static.mdfd.or.charter.com] has left #fedora-meeting ["Leaving"] 12:25 < ianweller> quaid: same here. /me wants no slashes ;) 12:25 < ianweller> except in non-main namespaces 12:25 < G> Legal have asked us, to make sure Legal/* is read only to everyone but people in the Legal group, Packaging/* is read only to people except in Packaging group, we can't just shut them out 12:25 < quaid> I want to see one or another method, and tightly enforced 12:25 < quaid> G: how do ACLs work? 12:25 < G> I proposed separte namespaces from them at inception but was told "ewww thats ugly" 12:25 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who_Know at fedora/sonarguy] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:25 < G> *for them 12:26 < ianweller> G: can we ACL by category? 12:26 * ianweller presumes not 12:26 < G> quaid: Packaging/* 12:26 -!- abadger1999 [n=abadger1 at 65.78.187.8] has quit [No route to host] 12:26 < quaid> G: what about Packaging* 12:26 < quaid> and Legal* 12:26 < G> ianweller: nope, MW doesn't allow that type of call 12:26 < quaid> without the / 12:26 < ianweller> quaid: but then we might run into other issues. 12:26 < G> quaid: I wouldn't be sure, but I'd feel that was an ugly solution 12:26 < quaid> well, sure, if someone wants to write "Legally_thinking_about_open_source" they cannot 12:27 < ianweller> i *personally* think that namespaces could/should/must be used 12:27 < ianweller> for cases such as these 12:27 < quaid> ianweller: you mean 12:27 < quaid> Namespace:s 12:27 < quaid> not Name/Space 12:27 < ianweller> quaid: yes. 12:27 -!- spstarr_work [n=spstarr at 192.219.104.10] has left #fedora-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] 12:27 < ianweller> i am not sure how people decided that Name/Space meant namespace :/ 12:27 < ianweller> (no offense to anyone) 12:28 < quaid> ianweller: ha! 12:28 < G> and you've got to consider that "Packaging:Foo" is going to have the exact same effect as "Packaging/Foo" 12:28 < quaid> ianweller: um, we had that term in general usebefore Mediawiki was born :) 12:28 < ianweller> quaid: oh ok. 12:28 < quaid> G: 'effect'? 12:28 < Sparks> In MW... What's the difference between Docs/Page and Docs:Page? 12:28 < quaid> Sparks: search is in specific namespaces 12:28 < ianweller> Sparks: you can decide to include/exclude certain Namespace:s in search. 12:28 < G> quaid: yuckyness in Category sorts etc iirc 12:28 < quaid> Sparks: we can reset the default, but that doesn't change it for existing users 12:29 < ianweller> G: can't you fix that? 12:29 < ianweller> potentially with wikibot? 12:29 < ke4qqq> quaid: yes but you can change default search 12:29 < quaid> ke4qqq: not for existing users aiui 12:29 < G> quaid: we can change it for existing users 12:29 < quaid> we _are_ going to change it, one time we hope 12:29 < quaid> G: oh, ok 12:29 < G> quaid: I said that during one of the other discussions 12:29 -!- bpepple|lt [n=bpepple|@rrcs-70-62-4-107.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:29 < quaid> G: thx, I forgot 12:29 < G> quaid: but I'd perfer to hold off on that until we get the l10n wikis sorted 12:30 < quaid> here's my thinking then ... 12:30 < quaid> on ACLs 12:30 < quaid> if Legal needs a protected space, move it off the wiki 12:30 < ianweller> quaid: we tried pushing that to them at the beginning too 12:30 < quaid> if Packaging needs a guide that cannot be edited by the masses, move it off the wiki 12:30 < ianweller> since wikis are not made for ACLs. 12:30 < Sparks> quaid: If you start moving people off the wiki then how will anyone know where to look for inforamtion? 12:30 < quaid> Sparks: the wiki is not the sole source of info 12:30 < ianweller> but they certainly did not like that. at all. 12:31 < G> quaid: that in my opinion isn't a good solution 12:31 < quaid> Sparks: docs.fp.o/release-notes for example 12:31 < quaid> ianweller, G why? 12:31 < quaid> oh, they want the ease of a wiki but not have it be a wiki? 12:31 < quaid> get a CMS, I say 12:31 < Sparks> quaid: Yeah, which is one reason why I think people have ahard time finding information 12:31 < ianweller> yes. 12:31 < ianweller> quaid: hehe 12:31 < ianweller> of course! 12:31 < quaid> Sparks: the wiki needs to link to the rest of the world, too' we cannot put all in the wiki, it sucks too much for content management 12:32 < G> quaid: that sort of stuff changes frequently and a wiki is a good way to display such information 12:32 < quaid> G: it actually doesn't change that frequently 12:32 < ianweller> (should we get some people who work on Legal/* and Packaging/* stuff's input?) 12:32 < G> quaid: parts of the Packaging/* area have a bit of turnover I've seen 12:33 * ianweller just had the idea of shoving the packaging guidelines into docbook, in a repo on fedorahosted 12:33 * ianweller notes that that idea is *not* going to be popular 12:33 < quaid> G: if they are active, why cannot they watch the pages like the rest of us do? 12:33 < quaid> ianweller: if they need ACLs, maybe that is the best thing 12:33 < quaid> here 12:33 < ianweller> quaid: i think so. 12:33 < quaid> here's what I'm getting at: 12:33 -!- AndreasR [n=medic at ext-32-32.mobile.unibas.ch] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:33 < quaid> we CANNOT make our naming decisions based on these corner cases 12:33 < quaid> that are leftover from previous bad decisions 12:33 < quaid> in the previous wiki. 12:34 < quaid> we CAN make an exception 12:34 < ianweller> agreed. 12:34 < quaid> and allow Legal/ and Packaging/ 12:34 < G> I think thats what we need to do really 12:34 < ianweller> (but only for now, imho) 12:34 < quaid> but, G, really, is it worth carrying on that travesty for all pages? 12:34 < G> for now anyway 12:34 < G> quaid: How about this: 12:34 < ianweller> there's a better solution, and we can decide on that with the respective name/space owners later 12:34 < G> * Allow Legal/ Packaging/ as exceptions for now 12:35 < G> * Approve Legal: Packaging: if they want it (but say it's an equally ugly solution) and recommend they incorporate stuff into the websites or documentation 12:35 < ianweller> +1 12:36 < quaid> +1, with the caveat that we can go get spot's input before entirely granting the exception 12:36 < quaid> (since spot is the dude leading both of those sections) 12:36 < ianweller> yes. 12:36 < G> * When the l10n wikis are put in, then change everyones default search to add those namespaces 12:36 < G> (and add the namespace then) 12:37 < ianweller> G: we need to i18n namespaces too, right? 12:37 < quaid> ianweller: it's just l10n, aiui 12:37 < G> no 12:37 < quaid> we use i18n to l10n the pages 12:37 < ianweller> well 12:38 < ianweller> what i mean is 12:38 < ianweller> change the name of the namespace into whatever it is for the respective language 12:38 < ianweller> just keep the same ID numbers in the database at the very least 12:38 < G> for most cases thats done, and it'd be a requirement of the l10n teams to do such a task before the wiki is created 12:38 < ianweller> excellent 12:39 < G> I've already discussed quite a bit of the implementation stuff like this with couf 12:39 < quaid> cool 12:39 < quaid> any more on this naming? 12:40 < quaid> do we think we have consensus here? 12:40 < ianweller> i think we're good. 12:40 < G> quaid: yeah, but we really need to look into the Legal/ Packaging/ stuff a bit more 12:40 < quaid> G: I know you mentally prefer Sub/Page, and I do think many people agree, but the l10n need in the end was a big persuader for me 12:40 < ianweller> then again, it's just the three (four?) of us talking about it, from what i can tell 12:41 < quaid> i.e., Artwork/Join has impedence mismatch with what that page actually is, Join_the_Art_project 12:41 < quaid> ianweller: carpe diem, etc. 12:41 < G> quaid: FreeDistribution is another one that uses ACLs on their subpage 12:41 * ianweller yawns 12:41 < ianweller> ;) 12:41 < G> quaid: it's a case of, I think in most cases subpages look nicer 12:41 < ianweller> G: so should we change your proposal from Legal/* and Packaging/* to whatever happens to be in the HNP ACL at the moment? 12:42 < quaid> wtf is FreeDistribution? 12:42 < G> quaid: the Free CDs folks 12:42 < G> they ACL a couple of the pages 12:42 < quaid> I'd want to go to each group and find out why they need ACLs 12:43 < quaid> well, a couple can be just done manually, right? 12:43 < G> even Infrastructure have ACL'd pages 12:43 < quaid> the exception is where an entire set of content needs ACLs 12:43 -!- alexxed [n=alex at conference/mozilla-summit/x-2b2f748cd8cfed4d] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:43 < G> quaid: correct 12:43 * G would really like to do away with HNP tbh, it's ugly 12:44 * ianweller would like to do away with any extensions we don't actually need (i.e., HNP) ;) 12:44 < G> it's an ugly solution to do something that mediawiki isn't designed for 12:45 < G> quaid: just sent you a /notice, don't know if you'll be able to read it, but if you can it's a list of the current ACLs 12:46 < G> ohhh forgot Licensing too, thats a big chunk 12:47 -!- mether [n=sundaram at nat/redhat-in/x-6f9c178ba5415a81] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:47 -!- paragn [n=paragn at fedora/paragn] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:47 < quaid> yeah, a few Foo/ exceptions is OK 12:48 < ianweller> with the mention that they shouldn't be exceptions, imho. 12:48 < quaid> mainly what I want is the general, open, edit-me content for contributors and users is a flat namespace, easy to know what to name, lots of categories 12:48 < quaid> oh, yeah! 12:48 < quaid> how about we create a bunch of stub category pages? 12:48 -!- paragn [n=paragn at fedora/paragn] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:48 < quaid> Category:Bug_Triage for example 12:48 -!- mether [n=sundaram at 59.160.127.177] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:48 < ianweller> so, Category:Bug_triaging_stubs? 12:48 < quaid> i.e., at least one for each ProjectName/ we are replacing with the renaming 12:49 < quaid> and advertise that as the category to use instead of the old SubPage/Style 12:49 < G> quaid: in some cases they already have a similar category, it'd be best to send wikibot over them - like I did for the Docs pages and rename them 12:49 < ianweller> i'm not sure if this is relevant right now but how nim-nim has been doing things for fonts is that he's been using the Category: page as the main page for his SIG 12:49 < quaid> G: right, let's do all that 12:49 * quaid adds that to the wiki gardening tasks 12:50 < ianweller> which i recommend against using Category:s as starting points. 12:50 < G> ianweller: that imo isn't using the category page for what it's designed to do 12:50 < ianweller> G: yeah 12:51 < quaid> hmm 12:51 -!- LyosNorezel [n=LyosNore at unaffiliated/lyosnorezel] has left #fedora-meeting [] 12:51 < quaid> makes it easy, though :) 12:52 < ianweller> it does, but it's not what we want, i think. 12:52 < ianweller> some projects will want to do that, most won't 12:52 < ianweller> and we need to standardize it 12:52 < quaid> we can recommend against it? or make a rule, not sure 12:52 * ianweller would make it a strong recommendation against. 12:52 < ianweller> if not a rule 12:53 < ianweller> i'd say that's up to you guys to decide 12:53 < quaid> ok, so ... 12:53 < G> agreed, 12:53 < quaid> I think we've covered the top item on the agenda 12:53 < ianweller> in a record time of 53 minutes! :=o 12:53 < ianweller> :-o* 12:54 < ianweller> ;) 12:54 < ianweller> is someone logging/noting what we decided? 12:54 < quaid> ianweller: I like the idea of using the MW style guide as a basis, then noting the variations 12:54 < quaid> similar to what we do with GNOME Docs style guide, etc. 12:54 < quaid> ianweller: I'll take the summary task today :) 12:54 < stickster> heh 12:54 < ianweller> excellent 12:54 < stickster> quaid: Thanks 12:54 < ianweller> imho, people should be familiar with the wikipedia page naming guidelines *first* and then read our specifications 12:55 < ianweller> or, we can take wikipedia's and adapt them appropriately 12:56 < ianweller> quaid: iirc the next item on the agenda was namespace:s? or did we kinda sorta cover that 12:56 * ianweller was thinking maybe we should decide what should be the initial namespaces 12:56 < quaid> ianweller: yeah, we jumped over that, sorry 12:56 < quaid> but I think we can decide that 12:56 < ianweller> heh 12:56 * ianweller notes that Features: would be an important one 12:56 < quaid> hmmm 12:56 < quaid> I wonder if we have a bigger discussion here?> 12:56 < ianweller> we kinda do. 12:56 < quaid> should we worry about a proliferation of namespaces? 12:57 < ianweller> i think we should only approve namespaces if the content will not be considered documenation for end users or contributors 12:57 < G> quaid: It could potentially get too big 12:57 < ianweller> but otherwise, we need a hard rule one way or the other 12:57 < quaid> ianweller: yeah, that was my thinking in general 12:57 < G> ianweller: in that case feature pages fit into that rule 12:57 < ianweller> G: yes, they do 12:58 < ianweller> but, then so do theme proposals from the artwork team. 12:58 < quaid> so, no Features: namespace? 12:58 < G> err I mean, they fit into "documentation for end users or contributors" 12:58 < quaid> G: +1 12:58 < ianweller> how do they do that? i see them more as FESCo organization in my mind 12:58 < quaid> contributors work on them 12:59 < quaid> marketers use them to write from 12:59 < quaid> people read them to know what is coming 12:59 < quaid> etc. 12:59 < G> exactly 12:59 < ianweller> so we're going to just use the concept of putting 'feature' somewhere in the title and categorizing it appropriately as it is now? 13:00 < ianweller> like "Better webcam support feature for F10" 13:00 < ianweller> maybe even s/feature // 13:00 < G> well thats the way the rest of the policy is going, so yes 13:00 < ianweller> ok. 13:00 < quaid> ianweller: John maintains a set of categories 13:00 < ianweller> quaid: i know 13:00 < quaid> that is where to find the list ultimately, not by name 13:00 < ianweller> Category:FeatureF10Proposed or something like that 13:00 -!- abadger1999 [n=abadger1 at 136.245.7.181] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:00 < quaid> we're out of time 13:01 < ianweller> ack 13:01 < G> quaid: so do you want me to add the Meeting: namespace now? 13:01 < quaid> namespaces discussion -- to the list! 13:01 < ianweller> right-o. 13:01 < jsmith> +1 13:01 < ianweller> who should turn Help:Wiki organization (or whatever it was, i don't remember) into a policy? 13:01 < quaid> G: I'll reply to you on list giving people One Last Chance to argue, then we'll do it, sound OK? 13:01 * ianweller could, unless someone else wants to 13:01 < quaid> the last item 13:01 < G> quaid: good idea 13:01 < quaid> that we need to make up a skeleton release announcement 13:02 < quaid> anyone here interested in that task? or push request to the list? 13:02 < ianweller> what do you mean 13:02 < ianweller> "skeleton release announcement" 13:02 < quaid> sorry, for Alpha 13:02 < ianweller> oh ok. 13:02 < quaid> request from releng, basically 13:02 < quaid> I'll own that for now, see if I can find another doer :) 13:03 < quaid> all right, closing and getting out of the channel's way 13:03 < ianweller> ok someone's waiting for us to finish so /me moves to end meeting 13:03 < ianweller> yeah. 13:03 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Thu Aug 7 17:22:47 2008 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 13:22:47 -0400 Subject: Page naming question - follow up to RFC Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Currently the page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_Structure#Page_naming has two different naming conventions, one for end-user docs, and one for non-end-user docs. The above says that single level nesting is ok for non-end-user sub-projects. ie, we could have /Ambassadors/Requirements_for_NA_Ambassadors (old style would have been /Ambassadors/NA/Requirements). And that end user docs is more akin to the RFC suggested style. The RFC iirc, says that page naming should be more akin to "A__Docs_Project_page_named_something_better" and abandon the /DocsProject/Pages/Better/Named/Because/Nested/A model. I saw a couple of messages as follow up (that focused on a specific page) but no real discussion of the merit of the RFC or lack thereof of page naming in general. Anyone care to wade into this discussion or will the RFC be implemented by fiat? I am purposefully trying to stir the pot a bit, as I recently asked for clarification and was told that there currently isn't a standard set - and that low list activity == poor decision making? :) Thoughts, Flames, Comments? David Nalley -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://getfiregpg.org iEYEARECAAYFAkibL0kACgkQkZOYj+cNI1epWwCffYn7HLtlAn/RMCfDMPmA6v7N yVYAn3sdlCBeihfJK/4t6Vfej673IxEj =0K7Z -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 18:43:24 2008 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:43:24 -0600 Subject: Page naming question - follow up to RFC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, Aug 7, 2008 at 11:22 AM, David Nalley wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Currently the page > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_Structure#Page_naming has two > different naming conventions, one for end-user docs, and one for > non-end-user docs. > The above says that single level nesting is ok for non-end-user > sub-projects. ie, we could have > /Ambassadors/Requirements_for_NA_Ambassadors (old style would have > been /Ambassadors/NA/Requirements). And that end user docs is more > akin to the RFC suggested style. The RFC iirc, says that page naming > should be more akin to "A__Docs_Project_page_named_something_better" > and abandon the /DocsProject/Pages/Better/Named/Because/Nested/A > model. As I understand it that is the model being discussed right now by the Docs project. I chatted with Ian Weller about this, but they've not yet confirmed they are going this way quite yet. Cheers, Clint From ianweller at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 19:15:59 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 14:15:59 -0500 Subject: Page naming question - follow up to RFC In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20080807191559.GC6118@gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 07, 2008 at 01:22:47PM -0400, David Nalley wrote: > Currently the page > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_Structure#Page_naming has two > different naming conventions, one for end-user docs, and one for > non-end-user docs. > The above says that single level nesting is ok for non-end-user > sub-projects. ie, we could have > /Ambassadors/Requirements_for_NA_Ambassadors (old style would have > been /Ambassadors/NA/Requirements). And that end user docs is more > akin to the RFC suggested style. The RFC iirc, says that page naming > should be more akin to "A__Docs_Project_page_named_something_better" > and abandon the /DocsProject/Pages/Better/Named/Because/Nested/A > model. > > I saw a couple of messages as follow up (that focused on a specific > page) but no real discussion of the merit of the RFC or lack thereof > of page naming in general. Anyone care to wade into this discussion or > will the RFC be implemented by fiat? > I am purposefully trying to stir the pot a bit, as I recently asked > for clarification and was told that there currently isn't a standard > set - and that low list activity == poor decision making? :) > I believe the page needs updated, because I think we agreed on a hard "no subpages" rule. I don't remember that well though, I'll have to go check logs. -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Aug 7 19:32:07 2008 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 15:32:07 -0400 Subject: Introduction - John McDonough Message-ID: <007b01c8f8c4$47802cc0$14c8662c@Aidan> My name is John McDonough and I am a retired computer professional living in Midland, Michigan. I write ocasionally, have an online tutorial on PIC microcontrollers, the occasional amateur radio magazine article, and even a Six Sigma article. I have used Fedora since FC1, although I don't always keep up with every release. I feel a certain obligation to contribute, but although I program from time to time I can't really see myself being able to commit the time nor intensity needed to develop. However, I believe I have a better than average command of the English language, and when first Paul Frields and then Karsten Wade mentioned the need for beat writers, it seemed to me that this might be a way I could give something back. Looking at the list of open slots, it seems as if I could add something in the gcc arena or possibly Development Tools. I use gcc regularly, mostly C or C++, but I'm not above writing the occasional line of Fortran or Ada. At this point, though, it isn't entirely clear how a writer learns what is going on for subjects that don't have a PoC. Wade through subversion comments maybe? Hmmm ... the SelfIntroduction page says you might want to know more about me. Well, although I programmed for many moons, my real interest has been the software process. After retiring I did a little consulting on Six Sigma as applied to software development at some very large firms on three continents. Prior to retiring my role was to provide the technical guidance on large (>1MM USD) software projects. I was (thankfully) insulated from many of the administrative burdens, although I did play a major role in our software process. On the personal side, I am an amateur radio operator, in fact, Radio Officer for the state of Michigan, which means I spend a lot of time with the state police. I like grody technical stuff, build radios, play with microcontrollers, all that geeky stuff. Still, if one looks at my history, both at work and at play, the people skills are not entirely absent. With David Nalley's help I got signed up to FAS, did the CLA thing, now it looks like I have a heck of a lot to read! --McD From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Thu Aug 7 21:20:08 2008 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:20:08 -0400 Subject: Meeting Log 2008-08-07 Message-ID: Summary to follow [15:04] [15:04] Roll call! [15:04] DavidNalley [15:05] * ianweller [15:05] Is mizmo around? [15:05] hiii [15:05] eeeeeeggscellent. [15:06] And I'm Paul Frields. [15:06] :-o [15:06] You might remember me from such hit shows as, "Bosom Buddies." [15:06] * rharrison accounts for himself [15:06] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks [15:06] There's our task list. [15:07] im mizmo. u might remember me as the girl in the funny hat in the video on redhatmagazine.com right now :-p [15:07] mizmo: baby ur a star [15:07] KushalDas [15:07] (That was my Prince voice, but you couldn't hear it from there.) [15:07] lol [15:07] OK. Unless someone has an objection, [15:07] I'm going to start down the priority 1 items on the task list. [15:07] stickster, thank you a lot for the nice microphone [15:08] kushal: You're welcome. :-) [15:08] kushal: Now go out and produce thee some videos! :-) [15:08] stickster, working on them :) [15:08] OK, I see that task #1 on our list is the 4 foundations posts. [15:08] ke4qqq: I think you did a second one already, yes? [15:08] yes [15:09] ke4qqq: slap that URL in here, I'll capture it to the page too. [15:09] next will be done by tomorrow [15:09] http://www.nalley.sc/david/?p=59 [15:10] Awesome. That's "Features"? [15:10] yes, Features is next - rough draft already done, just needs to be cleaned up a bit [15:10] ke4qqq: Let me know if you need any supplementary info -- since poelcat and I work on that pretty much daily or so. [15:10] k [15:11] Well, that's well underway, so on to the next item, unless there are objections or questions about the 4 Foundations [15:11] OK. [15:11] Ria Das [15:11] Hi Ria, thanks for coming. [15:11] mizmo: The next item is one that we discussed a bit in Artwork [15:11] :) [15:11] posterz!!11 [15:11] nowai [15:12] There had been some brainstorming, and it included... STEAMBOATZ! [15:12] yeh [15:12] steamboatz????// [15:12] i think the consensus was that we want a more graphic and less photo feel [15:12] so i gotta get offs my duff and graphic-ify [15:12] What was really interesting to me was that you guys came up with some killer ideas for how to tie the boats into each of the foundations [15:13] With Freedom, it was just the idea of boating down the river, unfettered [15:13] (or ocean) [15:13] a giant boat sitting on a earth thing [15:13] This struck a deep chord with me because I *just* got done reading "Huck Finn" with my daughter. [15:13] ianweller: Failboat? [15:13] heh [15:14] The freedom of Huck and Jim rafting down the river was a big theme in that novel. [15:14] So anyhow... [15:14] Friends was the crew all having a beer on deck, or pulling oars together, or something to that effect [15:14] Features was the awesomeness of the engine room [15:14] And Future was landing on the destination island, for example. [15:15] * stickster shuts up and lets mizmo pontificate now [15:15] well [15:15] oops, one other thing: some of those ideas may have been mine, so if they suck, blame me. [15:15] i think the status is just that we gotta do it [15:15] which was the status last week [15:15] :-D [15:15] except this week we gots a rough mock for one [15:15] :) [15:16] mizmo: If you or some other intrepid artiste can establish a "look" for one, the others might be easier to fall into place from other helpers [15:17] yep i hope os! [15:17] s/os/so [15:17] superb [15:17] --> tw2113 has joined this channel (n=tw2113 at host-17-36-107-208-static.midco.net). [15:18] Is JonRob around? [15:18] I think not. [15:18] [Error] JonRob: No such nick/channel. [15:18] i also think not [15:18] Great minds think alike, apparently, since he ain't here. [15:18] OK then. [15:19] *skritch skritch skratch* [15:19] meeting isn't it? [15:19] If mether were around, he could tell us whether JonRob talked to him. [15:19] tw2113: Yes, welcome! [15:19] stickster: whats the discussion about [15:19] split shift today so i get to come in late and possibly make the rest of it [15:20] mether: Did JonRob talk to you about reusability of the Release Notes Overview in the Release Summary? [15:20] That was his banner to take up. [15:20] nope [15:20] OK. [15:20] not offlist atleast [15:21] We'll just have to give that a miss this time, then. He had a sort of master plan in mind and I don't really know what it entailed. [15:21] ke4qqq: If you could CC JonRob on the summary, and include that bit for his benefit, it would be a big help [15:21] Thanks! [15:22] Oops, gotta call mizmo on the carpet yet again then. [15:22] OMZG STICKERZ!!!!!1!!! [15:22] stickster, OMGZ!!!11 [15:22] stickster, yeh so ive been a bad girl here [15:22] stickster, um gdk met someone at oscon who does stickers and who is also a fedora fan [15:23] i emailed him last week for quotes, he said he'd look into it but hasn't gotten back to me yet so ill send him a reminder today [15:23] zomg [15:23] :D [15:23] OK, fair enough. I hadn't seen the new, better-for-diecutting version yet [15:23] *very* nice! [15:23] only nitpicky thing i say: why are there colons after "write your own"? [15:24] *** adrianalves is now known as adrianalves|away. [15:24] ianweller: Better digestion? [15:24] * ianweller sticks one of the blank stickers on stickster's forehead and writes "better digestion" in the bubble [15:25] :) [15:25] :P [15:25] but seriousl. [15:25] seriously* [15:25] Looks like an easy enough fix in inkscape [15:25] <-- mthompson has left this server ("l8r"). [15:27] OK, without JonRob that's really the end of the priority 1 tasks. [15:27] tw2113: Since you're here, want to talk about the first task on the priority 2 list? [15:27] ack, not sure what it is [15:27] stickster, I have few input for Fedora TV [15:27] link plz [15:27] tw2113, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks [15:27] tw2113: See the task list --> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Tasks#Active_.28Assigned.29_Tasks [15:28] Oh, thanks kushal :-) [15:28] :) [15:28] kushal: In the meantime, yes, please talk about Fedora TV. [15:28] write your own: [15:28] i dont see anything wrong with that? [15:28] its indicating, below is where u write your own no? [15:28] I am out of ideas for screencasts [15:28] mizmo: it might be firefox's rendering. i see "write your own:" *under* the sticker [15:29] the one in wiki page, i don't know them properly so can not work on them [15:29] ianweller, oh weird [15:29] i must chime in that i've been a bad boy and haven't touched the topic in a long time [15:29] ianweller: No, it's there in the source afaict [15:29] mizmo: I just moved them up, I can send you the SVG. [15:29] ianweller, yeh firefox might be funkifying the vertical alignment if u are looking at the svg [15:29] or maybe i screwed it up! not sure [15:29] today created few on python, how to copy files to fedorapeople.org account [15:29] mizmo: if it's above the sticker then it's cool. [15:29] yeh i was thinking they were above [15:29] i agree if they below we should take : out [15:29] or move them up [15:29] ok. [15:30] if we need to push the istanbul video topic more, it might be best to give it to someone else. I'm just dropping the ball here [15:30] So, I need to application list people want to see in the videos or workflow [15:30] like how to create a patch may be [15:30] tw2113: Is it a lack of time thing, or a lack of interest thing? [15:30] a bit of both [15:31] I also started a series on PyQt4 programming [15:31] i'm juggling my fair amount of balls over here plus a bit of lack of interest [15:31] tw2113, do you have ideas ? [15:31] kushal: Do you think you might be working toward an overall "How to Maintain a Package" video set? [15:31] no i don't sadly [15:32] stickster, ok, next task in pool :) [15:32] tw2113, ok [15:32] kushal: That was more of a question :-) [15:32] stickster, like for Fedora packaging ? [15:32] kushal: Is that your goal? [15:32] stickster, oh, :p [15:32] stickster, goal ,means ? [15:32] for what ? [15:32] kushal: Something you're trying to achieve with your videos [15:33] stickster, I goal is simple .... [15:33] people do not get chance to meet people in real life to learn from them, only option is irc and RTFM [15:33] kushal: Oh yes, I understand why we create the videos :-) [15:33] if they can see on videos how to do things, it becomes very easy [15:33] kushal: I didn't do a very good job of explaining myself. [15:34] kushal: Let me try again :-) [15:34] ok [15:34] I was thinking that, since you're creating lots of videos, and they seem to be about some development topics... [15:34] ...and... [15:34] ...because you maintain some packages... [15:34] ...the larger theme of "How to Maintain a Package" might be interesting to you, as a video-maker. [15:34] yes, of course :) [15:35] In other words, a series, one at a time, showing the essential skills [15:35] (or more than one at a time if you like) :-) [15:35] plus I want to do more for simple users [15:35] but as I don't know most of the user tools or options, that is difficult for me :P [15:35] tw2113: Is there a marketing task that *does* grab you by the lapels, which wouldn't take much of your time to achieve? [15:36] we're hoping to have my fedora tools ready for f10 that are focused on package maintainers [15:36] tw2113: Ooo. I have an idea. [15:36] so the process might be changing (for the better) as soon as f10 [15:36] <-- bpepple|lt has left this server ("Ex-Chat"). [15:36] hit me [15:36] (something to keep in mind for that video) [15:36] mizmo: Oh, that's true. [15:36] mizmo, oh, ok [15:36] So if kushal creates a lot of videos, they might all change :-\ [15:36] s/change/need to change/ [15:36] That would be silly [15:36] tw2113: Are you a CSS guy? [15:36] stickster, then I will work on that after f10 :) [15:37] i like to believe so, and have studied it in college [15:37] :) [15:37] kushal: Whatever happens, make yourself happy doing videos, first and foremost :-0 [15:37] :-) [15:37] stickster, that I am :) [15:37] tw2113: How would you like to fix the docs.fp.o CSS? [15:37] tw2113: 'Coz we need it badly. [15:38] fancy it up and make it smashing? [15:38] tw2113: Take a look at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ [15:38] 2002 called, and they want their styles back. [15:38] *that* is a domain that needs love. [15:38] stickster, btw, I am uploading my ogg files to fedorapeople account [15:38] tw2113: Now compare that to http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ [15:38] soon I will be out of space [15:38] tw2113: Which uses the newer, canonical styles. [15:38] kushal: We can get you more, just ask in #fedora-admin [15:38] kushal: And let them know I sent you ;-) [15:38] stickster, then I will use my own space for both flvs and ogg [15:39] stickster, oh, ok [15:39] tw2113: So the objective is to match the docs.fp.o site to the newer official Fedora styling. [15:39] stickster, my idea of keeping flvs on fedorapeople is nothing but advertisement [15:39] that we *support* ogg [15:39] sounds like parts of that would be just copying new into old [15:39] kushal: Hm, let me think on that. [15:39] eh [15:39] tw2113: Possibly. [15:40] s/flv/ogg [15:40] tw2113: The rub is, we need someone to *do* it who knows what he's doing :-) [15:40] stickster, my idea of keeping oggs on fedorapeople is nothing but advertisement [15:40] yeah [15:40] mizmo: That's the official styling, yes? [15:40] sure, i'll take on that task [15:40] mizmo: e.g. what's on http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ ? [15:40] * stickster almost 100% sure of that, but JIC... [15:40] tw2113: Awesome. [15:41] tw2113: How long do you think you need for that? [15:41] how about we agree that i'll get on it asap [15:41] tw2113: Do you want to try for next week, then? [15:42] tw2113: Or does two weeks sound better for your schedule/time constraints? [15:42] Or...? [15:42] it'll be my first official chance to push stuff live for Fedora, so i'd need a bit of help figuring out how to download the uptodate files and then pushing live etc [15:42] yeah, lets aim for 2 week [15:42] ianweller may be able to help you with that [15:42] i'm sure i could find some help easy [15:42] ianweller: Can I call on you for help in that regard? [15:42] ugh. [15:42] That was the crappiest sentence ever. [15:42] * ianweller yells at the government for making him go to school [15:42] ianweller: Will you help with that? [15:43] stickster: possibly. [15:43] ianweller, lol [15:43] i just have to work around a schedule that isn't the same every week [15:43] tw2113: In fact, quaid or I may be able to help with that. [15:43] i have to work around school, and homework, and ughhhhhh [15:43] The changes are made to a site to which we have access [15:43] ianweller: no problem [15:43] i'll do what i can. [15:43] i can pester ricky for some help too if i need to [15:44] * ianweller wishes summer lasted 11 months [15:44] tw2113: OK, I'll put in a 2-week status call [15:44] k [15:44] Cool! [15:44] Well, that's it for the agenda. [15:44] Open floor! [15:44] oh goody, my computer's keyboard and mouse just locked up again [15:44] * stickster sure if gregdek were here, he'd have something sage to say, but I'm spent for the day. [15:44] who ordered the 15 pizzas? [15:45] * stickster edits Tasks page while others talk about marketing stuff (hopefully) [15:45] stickster: what's the status of trademark guidelines for business cards? [15:45] ianweller: Actually, we discussed that at the Board meeting this week [15:45] i saw that in the notes, that's why i ask :P [15:45] ah [15:45] Well, what we were thinking is that we *want* everyone to use the standard cards [15:45] *and* [15:46] We would like people to include on the cards something that indicates how they can be "found" on our system, so recipients can verify the person is in Fedora [15:46] i wonder if there's a command line tool i can use to get my keyboard and mouse unfrozen. [15:46] ianweller: yum install unbreakmydevices [15:46] stickster: i wish! [15:47] Then you SMASH IT WITH A HAMMER!!! [15:47] just throw them out the window ianweller [15:47] the higher up you are, the better [15:47] i know it's not a hardware problem [15:47] it's a fedora problem. [15:47] and that's what makes me mad [15:47] ianweller, same here [15:47] * ianweller sshes in and init 3;init 5 [15:47] OK, are we done with marketing then? [15:47] my personal lappy gets in same condition any time [15:47] stickster, seems so :) [15:48] 5 [15:48] 4 [15:48] --> jesolato has joined this channel (i=jesolato at 64-238-187-68.cty.apt.gru.net). [15:48] 3 [15:48] 2 [15:48] 1 [15:48] > From stickster at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 11:26:50 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 07:26:50 -0400 Subject: Meeting Log 2008-08-07 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1218194810.23249.9.camel@victoria> On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 17:20 -0400, David Nalley wrote: > Summary to follow [...snip...] Don't worry guys, David's already sent this to the Marketing list. Just call this cross-project coordination! :-) -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Fri Aug 8 17:51:10 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 09 Aug 2008 05:51:10 +1200 Subject: Long Needed Introduction In-Reply-To: <48809906.9000406@nigelj.com> References: <48809906.9000406@nigelj.com> Message-ID: <489C878E.2010007@mkc.co.nz> Greetings all, long time no see. I have finally sorted other pressing commitments and should be able to continue where I left off (AdminGuide). Nigel Jones wrote: > I just realised that I've never formally introduced myself. > > So here goes, I'm Nigel Jones, a proud New Zealander that has been > meaning to do a little bit of documentation work for AGES. I've > recently done 6 months teaching IT to domestic and international > students, and really documentation is the best way to help students. > > I'm quite technically competent (I passed RHCT with 100%) so I'm > definitely eyeing up getting the Administration guide out the door. > Nigel, not sure how far are you with this but the place to start completing the guide is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta It was copied there for proof-reading, editing and XML conversion (before the wiki migration) but almost no progress was made since. ToC has the status of each section appropriately marked and unmarked ones are yet to be written. Regards, Vladimir > Recently I'm known for my work on the wiki and helping people with > Mediawiki syntax (who've thunk it?). > > Anything else, just ask (feel free to prove to Murray that I'm not > famous)... > > - Nigel > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 18:20:20 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 21:20:20 +0300 Subject: Login required to see meeting minutes Message-ID: <9d2c731f0808081120g53c9eb17y95eddc6b0533ebbd@mail.gmail.com> Unless my proxy is playing tricks on me, which it has been known to do, when I tried to view the latest FDSCo meeting minutes at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20080806, I was prompted to log in. Can we fix this so that anyone can view the FDSCo meeting minutes? Thanks... John Babich Fedora Project Volunteer From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Aug 8 18:38:31 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 13:38:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Login required to see meeting minutes In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0808081120g53c9eb17y95eddc6b0533ebbd@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0808081120g53c9eb17y95eddc6b0533ebbd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 8 Aug 2008, John Babich wrote: > Unless my proxy is playing tricks on me, which it has been known to > do, when I tried to view the latest FDSCo meeting minutes at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20080806, I was > prompted to log in. > > Can we fix this so that anyone can view the FDSCo meeting minutes? > Fixed -Mike From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 20:32:59 2008 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 16:32:59 -0400 Subject: Virtualization Quick Start Content Update Message-ID: <1218227579.5380.6.camel@bruiser.localdomain> https://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization_Quick_Start has been updated as much as my meager knowledge can do. I am humbly requesting some technical and grammar editing so we can make sure it is a sane document. Thanks! -Jason -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From j.bjoerklund at googlemail.com Sat Aug 9 11:54:27 2008 From: j.bjoerklund at googlemail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jonjo_Bj=F6rklund?=) Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2008 13:54:27 +0200 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?Self-Introduction=3A_Jonas_Bj=F6rklund?= Message-ID: <9c8a8aa90808090454g3868f07aj598e4961e374fa16@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hello everyone, My name is Jonas Bj?rklund. I live in Munich, Germany and I'm currently a high school student in year 10. I go to a German high school called Heinrich-Heine-Gymnasium. My personal goal in the Fedora project is to demonstrate the world what Fedora is capable of, and that there is a world beyond Suse or even Windows. I want to write about the ease-of-use of many Fedora applications and how easy it can be to setup a performant web server with Fedora. I'd love to contribute as good as I can to existing docs as well. Since I'm still in high school, I don't have many qalifications, although I have been on exchange to Australia for 6 months, which hopefully helped my English. This is the first time I'm joining an open-source project, although I have been using and promoting open-source for quite a while. I myself would describe my skills as advanced user with a bit of experience in shell-programming(bash) and PHP. I think I'll be able to explain the basics of Fedora to beginners, trying to make Fedora an OS beginners like to work on as well. My GPG KEYID is 50A6907B and my fingerprint is: 6FFB 63B2 B126 C535 2A39 47BE 88A1 81C5 50A6 907B Best regards, Jonas Bj?rklund -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: http://getfiregpg.org iD8DBQFInYVuiKGBxVCmkHsRAqweAJ0allgfy1UDN5NKcMEj4g2IZEMwuwCglPq7 u9dyYqmP/ny2M9HQ330He/I= =S+ET -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 19:15:10 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:15:10 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-06 IRC log In-Reply-To: <1218123161.16620.52.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1218123161.16620.52.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1218395710.15346.0.camel@victoria> On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 08:32 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > HTML version: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20080806 I think this email and link are duplicates of the 2008-07-30 meeting logs. I'll see if I can correct that today. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 19:21:29 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 15:21:29 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-06 IRC log (ERRATUM) Message-ID: <1218396089.15346.2.camel@victoria> Sparks will capture the log and post with a summary. Let's talk about wiki gardening --- stickster (n=npfrield at fedora/stickster) changed topic: Fedora Documentation -- Wiki Gardening * quaid pulls in just in time woo-hoo! I like whatever stickster just recommended :) * Sparks would like a backup just in case (to make it easier to find the start in the log) oh, sorry! stickster already did that lol * quaid looks at his buffer and moves on now we have to close the meeting tag twice! >.> yeah, now I messed it up 's OK, doesn't count 'til quaid says so It's a recursive meeting ok, so ... just to speak for a moment about page naming ... well ... I'm stuck mentally; I see where we need to go to, but i) don't have it clear enough to convince everyone here :) ii) therefore don't have a clear plan to communicate widely so, we don't need to take this meeting to work on/decide this _again_, but ... anyone who hasn't weighed in on the discussion, please do so. Otherwise we could talk about the big ticket gardening items, content-wise * ianweller wonders how we're going to implement the new organization schema https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help_talk:Wiki_Structure ianweller: yeah, we really need to get the mailing list active with that * stickster would like to see us come out of this meeting with interested people having measurable task assignments, and having them written on a task list in that I don't think we're going to solve it in a meeting, so I don't want to use ourselves up that way ok, so, yeah quaid: +1 just wanted to remind people to work on that too yeppers * stickster steals mizmo-ism https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks_(draft) ? * quaid cannot get that page to load, hang on ok, there we go; and https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks (at fedoraproject.org) darnit, sorry, that was what I meant ok, until :30 we'll throw out any task ideas and update that list * quaid has the edit on that page then we can spend untik :50 organizing/prioritizing. sound OK? cool beans sure * quaid reorganizes using the Tasks_(Draft) scheme ok, open for task ideas what does the wiki need gardened? into urls * Reorg of packaging policy * ;) stickster: +1 * Renaming of end-user focused content (e.g. FedoraLive/LiveUSBHowTo) * Moving obsolete stuff to Archive: * * ke4qqq is late * moving meeting minutes to Meeting: ke4qqq: no worries; we are reviewing the wiki gardening tasks, first working on throwing out random ideas, then org. and assign them. * reorg DocsProject as a model of how to reorg a project pages * quaid has that one there but wanted to post it :) wow, major pruning there ;-) * Find/prune orphans and dead links * * buy an ice cream cake after we're all done * yeah, that one yum yum install icecreamcake Any more? disambiguation needs? steal mediawiki's templates for that? * categorize all doc pages properly * move all of them out of the Docs/*/ nesting * set policy ofwhat is obsolete N, N-1 or N, N-1, and N-2 * quaid thinks the latter, fwiw :) yes, the latter +1 quaid: Yeah, there's no harm in carrying "people who are getting around to upgrading" yep And with Archive: we can make everything else less googlejuicy * quaid adds N+1 to that :D stickster: b i n g o We try never to think ahead. ok, saving an update to that page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks (at fedoraproject.org) seeing that list, anything else pop for anyone? let's give this a few more minutes * quaid reorganizes the order a bit ok, if that's it on the task ideas * quaid updates the org of that page I think the Board asked for a +1 priority on package review guidelines. That will help FESCo drive more people to help with reviews. ok, but page naming has to come first right? agreed with both statements * wonderer1 late to SORRY np stickster: I mean ... they can happen in parallel, but ultimately nothing can be renamed without knowing the final page naming quaid: Yes, parallel would be a good thing. * stickster trying not to get lost in process unless we have a definite length of tunnel, at the end of which is light ok, so any other thoughts on the priority there? now, those are a mix of harder and easier tasks 3 and 5 at the top 8 and 10 are ongoing, very easy tasks for newbies ah, we need to note that somewhow should we make two categories here? "olders and newbsters" stickster: by "3 and 5 at the top" are you commenting on their difficulty or priority order? quaid: Sorry, that was priority Difficulty... I would say 7, 9, 11 are fairly tough 8 and 10 are easier. so, two questions: i) should we sort by difficulty? (seems sane to me) Is this a task list? If so, then sort by priority. ii) stickster, how to move 3 and 5 to the top if we already have a 1 and 2 well, we could have two lists that sort by priority just adjust the page nesting to have two sections Two lists is fine -- one for vets, one for new folks or just note the difficulty in the section * quaid works up an edit of how that looks, one second to 1) i would say no. I would find it better if for difficult tasks something a "godfather" stands beside... * stickster happy someone else has an opinion to voice I worry that the fact that very few people are speaking up is an indicator of how interested they are in these tasks. well, we may not get assignment on them all stickster: if people don't speak up with tasks, how do we know what interests them? too true I wouldn't worry too much, though; if we get an organized list first, we increase our chances across board and for the "note the difficulty" I would find it as a newby hard to read HOW the note how the difficulty level should work is done... but maybe its a good idea. can we have a "demo" on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks ? (at fedoraproject.org) domestic disturbance, need to go -- back in 2 min * wonderer1 get a coffee at this 2 min. back how should the "wiki gardening HowTo" page be designed or structured? ianweller: Sparks: ke4qqq: Do any of these tasks sound like things you want to help with? * quaid is doing a demo, one more moment pls * ianweller got caught up in work and has to get it done soonish, sorry, i'll read the logs ke4qqq: moving meeting minutes to meeting: sounds easy errr talking to myself... right, we need to work up the steps a bit e.g., links on from pages need to be fixed, which is easy with the "What links here" page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks (at fedoraproject.org) ok, org'd by difficulty, sorted by priority * quaid removes tertiary sections That looks good on a tty at least :-) quadenary! Anyone else care to comment? ok, so there they are, now we need to talk about assignments one quick comment * wonderer1 would go for Find and prune orphans and dead links wonderer1: that's great; let's quickly figure out how that process looks so we can put it in the task. It'd be nice to see a definitive list of what the elements of a good page are. ie category, etc. ke4qqq: Wow, good point. that may exist but I haven't seen it is that part of Help:Wiki_Structure? should that be, that is quaid: take one section by another, look over the pages, see if there are dead links and such stuff, delete it or correct ist...?! or do we need a stand-alone page for that? Example_wiki_page But yes. wonderer1: right for dead links; orphaned pages are ones that nothing links to, and we need to find if there is somewhere to link it from, etc. * quaid adds the page structure task wonderer1: There are ways that MediaWiki can give you that information, using the Special: functions https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Specialpages wonderer1: Let's leave that for after the meeting, come over to #fedora-docs and we can all talk there 1 stickster: I know, but at this time I'm not familiar with all of that. but google is my friend I think ;-) ke4qqq: I would say, you just volunteered to write that Example_wiki_page. ;-) I don't mind, as long as people will add what is missing ke4qqq: of course! as I am not sure I know what all of the elements are. ke4qqq: You betcha, just email the list to let us know you're ready for more carpenteres. just a catalystis needed, as usual *carpenters wonderer1: what is your FAS user name? wonderer :D * stickster notes we're at closing -2 minutes without the "1" :-) What about other task assignments? I've got the page naming quaid: If you want to drive the naming policy to a close for next week ha, jinx I'll see what I can do to start changing the package review guidelines stuff hmm probably in line with http://tinyurl.com/55ay2f I wonder if there is a packager who wants to help? Sure would be nice Maybe I can get someone on FESCo to help with it ;-) * stickster sees the clock may have run out of sand Is someone in this channel directly following us? stickster: Usually there is a meeting right after us Sparks: You're alive! ;-) whoops, time to wrap up yep, FAMSco or somebody :) anything else, we can talk in #fedora-docs take you time :) fugolini: Nope, we're out of here, it's all yours! feel free to finish -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 10 20:50:02 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2008 16:50:02 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-06 Summary Message-ID: <1218401402.15346.14.camel@victoria> Attendees: ----------- Paul W. Frields (stickster) Karsten Wade (quaid) Eric Christensen (Sparks) Ian Weller (ianweller) Henrik Heigl (wonderer1) David Nalley (ke4qqq) Summary: --------- * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening/Tasks ** Worked on prioritizing these tasks ** Two lists -- one for beginners, one for veterans ACTION: DAVID -- Create new Example_wiki_page with desired elements such as section headings, cateory, etc., and email the list when ready for more people to review the draft. ACTION: KARSTEN -- Drive naming policy to a close by Tuesday, 2008-08-12, so we can proceed. ACTION: Paul -- Get FESCo help to revise package review guidelines. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Tue Aug 12 04:11:43 2008 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 00:11:43 -0400 Subject: Example wiki page Message-ID: I have a very rough page up detailing my perception of the elements that make a page complete from a wiki gardening perspective. Please keep in mind since there are no predecessors to this document a lot of the content was made up on the fly. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Example_wiki_page Please feel free to edit, change, comment, flame, or rewrite. Thanks, David Nalley From stickster at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 11:25:26 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 07:25:26 -0400 Subject: Example wiki page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1218540326.4986.3.camel@victoria> On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 00:11 -0400, David Nalley wrote: > I have a very rough page up detailing my perception of the elements > that make a page complete from a wiki gardening perspective. > > Please keep in mind since there are no predecessors to this document a > lot of the content was made up on the fly. > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Example_wiki_page > > Please feel free to edit, change, comment, flame, or rewrite. The section on naming looks like you didn't finish your thought. :-) But I know that the naming is something that Karsten was going to finish up here on the list -- by tomorrow's meeting? Not sure. But this page looks good to me! You might also want a link to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing as well. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 17:10:47 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 12:10:47 -0500 Subject: Example wiki page In-Reply-To: <1218540326.4986.3.camel@victoria> References: <1218540326.4986.3.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <20080812171047.GA28992@gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 07:25:26AM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > But this page looks good to me! You might also want a link to > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing as well. > And hopefully, integrate as much content as possible into [[Example wiki page]] without making it look like Help:Editing. Also you can use in pages so that when they edit the page (view the source), they can see those comments about things. -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dreamcarrior at yahoo.com Tue Aug 12 18:24:16 2008 From: dreamcarrior at yahoo.com (Sam Chen) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:24:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Example wiki page Message-ID: <219376.12794.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> >>>But this page looks good to me!? You might also want a link to >>>https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing as well. How come this wiki page starts at the second page of my IE browser?? The first page is totally blank with only the side menus to the left. Shen-En Chen -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 18:58:34 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 13:58:34 -0500 Subject: Example wiki page In-Reply-To: <219376.12794.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <219376.12794.qm@web32702.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20080812185322.GA1143@gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 11:24:16AM -0700, Sam Chen wrote: > > >>>But this page looks good to me!? You might also want a link to > >>>https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing as well. > > How come this wiki page starts at the second page of my IE browser?? The first page is totally blank with only the side menus to the left. > Shen-En Chen > Does this occur for other wiki pages in IE? (ccing f-websites-l) -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dev at nigelj.com Wed Aug 13 08:45:30 2008 From: dev at nigelj.com (Nigel Jones) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:45:30 +1200 Subject: Wiki Outage Notification - 2008-08-14 03:00 UTC & 2008-08-15 03:00 UTC Message-ID: <1218617130.2767.23.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> There will be an outage starting at 2008-08-14 03:00 UTC, which will last approximately 1 hour. A second outage is scheduled to start at 2008-08-15 03:00 UTC lasting approximately 30 minutes. To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/UTCHowto or run: date -d '2008-08-14 03:00 UTC' date -d '2008-08-15 03:00 UTC' Affected Services: Fedora Project Wiki Unaffected Services: All Other Websites CVS / Source Control Buildsystem Database DNS Mail Torrent Ticket Link: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/754 Reason for Outage: We will be performing database changes to the wiki database to enable searching by default for specific categories and to switch to the internal authentication methods. We hope to be able to leave the wiki Read Only during both outages. Contact Information: Please join #fedora-admin in irc.freenode.net or respond to this email to track the status of this outage. Thanks, Nigel Jones From dev at nigelj.com Wed Aug 13 08:51:57 2008 From: dev at nigelj.com (Nigel Jones) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 20:51:57 +1200 Subject: Wiki Outage Notification - 2008-08-14 03:00 UTC & 2008-08-15 03:00 UTC In-Reply-To: <1218617130.2767.23.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> References: <1218617130.2767.23.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> Message-ID: <1218617517.2767.27.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> Hi all, 'cuse the top post etc... Tomorrow's outage will mainly work on Karsten's request to do: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/644 I'll be adding "FedoraProject" "Help" and "Category" namespaces to the default wiki search for all current users. If there are any others people can think of, please speak now. - Nigel On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 20:45 +1200, Nigel Jones wrote: > There will be an outage starting at 2008-08-14 03:00 UTC, which will > last approximately 1 hour. A second outage is scheduled to start at > 2008-08-15 03:00 UTC lasting approximately 30 minutes. > > To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/UTCHowto or run: > > date -d '2008-08-14 03:00 UTC' > date -d '2008-08-15 03:00 UTC' > > Affected Services: > > Fedora Project Wiki > > Unaffected Services: > > All Other Websites > CVS / Source Control > Buildsystem > Database > DNS > Mail > Torrent > > Ticket Link: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/754 > > Reason for Outage: > > We will be performing database changes to the wiki database to enable > searching by default for specific categories and to switch to the > internal authentication methods. We hope to be able to leave the wiki > Read Only during both outages. > > Contact Information: > > Please join #fedora-admin in irc.freenode.net or respond to this email > to track the status of this outage. > > Thanks, > > Nigel Jones > From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 17:29:14 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:29:14 -0400 Subject: Beta one-sheet Message-ID: <1218648554.12777.4.camel@victoria> James Laska drafted a Beta release notes one-sheet page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Beta/ReleaseNotes This is the page that should be updated with new content for the upcoming Fedora 10 Beta release. As with the Alpha, it is permitted to be more of a "living page" that can note issues even following the actual release time and date. Developers should include information on areas that are important for community testing! The Beta receives much wider notice and use than the Alpha and more thorough testing can lead to a better final release There is currently an area set aside at the end of the notes for known issues and problems. If for some reason it needs to be moved, it will be replaced by links to a similar tracking page. If someone on the team could draft an announcement for fedora-devel-announce and elsewhere, that would be great. I'm currently in "scribble email as fast as possible" mode because of another urgency! :-) Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 21:13:45 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 16:13:45 -0500 Subject: Wiki Outage Notification - 2008-08-14 03:00 UTC & 2008-08-15 03:00 UTC In-Reply-To: <1218617517.2767.27.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> References: <1218617130.2767.23.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <1218617517.2767.27.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> Message-ID: <20080813211345.GD6642@gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 08:51:57PM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote: > I'll be adding "FedoraProject" "Help" and "Category" namespaces to the > default wiki search for all current users. If there are any others > people can think of, please speak now. > User namespace would be helpful, a lot of people write documentation that is good and in User but isn't necessarily proper for main namespace. Just what I see -- I'm sure somebody will fight this ;) -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 21:33:01 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 21:33:01 +0000 Subject: Wiki Outage Notification - 2008-08-14 03:00 UTC & 2008-08-15 03:00 UTC In-Reply-To: <20080813211345.GD6642@gmail.com> References: <1218617130.2767.23.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <1218617517.2767.27.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080813211345.GD6642@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1218663181.12777.80.camel@victoria> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 16:13 -0500, Ian Weller wrote: > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 08:51:57PM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote: > > I'll be adding "FedoraProject" "Help" and "Category" namespaces to the > > default wiki search for all current users. If there are any others > > people can think of, please speak now. > > > User namespace would be helpful, a lot of people write documentation > that is good and in User but isn't necessarily proper for main > namespace. Just what I see -- I'm sure somebody will fight this ;) Me among them. :-) User: needs to be held back so people have a good place to write drafts that won't be searched. Any documentation that's designed to live on after drafting should migrate out of User:, and User: should be default non-searchable. Can you tell my use case from this email? :-D -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 23:29:56 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:29:56 -0500 Subject: Wiki Outage Notification - 2008-08-14 03:00 UTC & 2008-08-15 03:00 UTC In-Reply-To: <1218663181.12777.80.camel@victoria> References: <1218617130.2767.23.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <1218617517.2767.27.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080813211345.GD6642@gmail.com> <1218663181.12777.80.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <20080813232955.GC12745@gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 09:33:01PM +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Me among them. :-) User: needs to be held back so people have a good > place to write drafts that won't be searched. Any documentation that's > designed to live on after drafting should migrate out of User:, and > User: should be default non-searchable. Can you tell my use case from > this email? :-D > I guess this was my roundabout way of bringing up this issue. -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ccurran at redhat.com Fri Aug 15 01:50:06 2008 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 11:50:06 +1000 Subject: Virtualization Quick Start Content Update In-Reply-To: <1218227579.5380.6.camel@bruiser.localdomain> References: <1218227579.5380.6.camel@bruiser.localdomain> Message-ID: <48A4E0CE.9020108@redhat.com> Jason wrote: > https://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization_Quick_Start has been > updated as much as my meager knowledge can do. I am humbly requesting > some technical and grammar editing so we can make sure it is a sane > document. Thanks! > > -Jason > I'm willing to take up the challenge. I'll have a look this weekend and see what I can do to help. - Chris From stickster at gmail.com Fri Aug 15 16:47:45 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 12:47:45 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: [Ambassadors] fedora-fr meeting report] Message-ID: <1218818865.4589.58.camel@victoria> -------- Forwarded Message -------- > From: Max Spevack > Reply-To: fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com > To: fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com > Subject: [Ambassadors] fedora-fr meeting report > Date: Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:23:38 +0200 (CEST) > > I spent a great day on Saturday August 2nd with a large number of our > French contributors, ambassadors, and community leaders. We had a > 12-person meeting/discussion for about 5 hours and then met up with > another 8 folks for dinner. > > In no particular order, here are my notes: [...snip...] > * The Fedora-fr website contains forums (15,000 registered users), a > Mediawiki instance with almost 300 pages of documentation (in which > French is the canonical language), and a French-only planet (which has a > fair amount of cross-pollenation with Planet Fedora). I think it would > be interesting to have some of the Fedora Docs Project guys take a look > at what the French team has built up, and see if there are any quick > wins that we can achieve in a information/toolchain sharing point of > view. This would be worth looking into -- maybe couf can play point on this? -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 18 02:14:42 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 19:14:42 -0700 Subject: moving with Seneca College Message-ID: <1219025683.7873.7.camel@calliope.phig.org> -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 18 03:41:32 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2008 20:41:32 -0700 Subject: moving with Seneca College In-Reply-To: <1219025683.7873.7.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1219025683.7873.7.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1219030892.7873.9.camel@calliope.phig.org> Whoops, sorry, mis-fired email still being written. You can skip this thread and read the next one. :) On Sun, 2008-08-17 at 19:14 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mhideo at redhat.com Tue Aug 19 22:51:54 2008 From: mhideo at redhat.com (Michael Hideo-Smith) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:51:54 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Week 34 - Fedora Deployment Guide Message-ID: <20503696.3209421219186314278.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Last Week: ========== + Content Migrated to fedorahosted svn + Removed "moreinfo=none" + Fixed around 30 broken xrefs + 50% fixed entities + Compiles cleanly with Fedora brand! This Week: ========== + Fix account + Fix remaining entities + Remove crufty images From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 01:09:55 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:09:55 -0400 Subject: Week 34 - Fedora Deployment Guide In-Reply-To: <20503696.3209421219186314278.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <20503696.3209421219186314278.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219194595.16503.41.camel@victoria> On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 18:51 -0400, Michael Hideo-Smith wrote: > Last Week: > ========== > + Content Migrated to fedorahosted svn > + Removed "moreinfo=none" > + Fixed around 30 broken xrefs > + 50% fixed entities > + Compiles cleanly with Fedora brand! > > This Week: > ========== > + Fix account > + Fix remaining entities > + Remove crufty images Greatest. Report. Ever. :-) -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ccurran at redhat.com Wed Aug 20 02:52:18 2008 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:52:18 +1000 Subject: Virtualization Quick Start Content Update In-Reply-To: <48A4E0CE.9020108@redhat.com> References: <1218227579.5380.6.camel@bruiser.localdomain> <48A4E0CE.9020108@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48AB86E2.6090907@redhat.com> Christopher Curran wrote: > Jason wrote: >> https://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization_Quick_Start has been >> updated as much as my meager knowledge can do. I am humbly requesting >> some technical and grammar editing so we can make sure it is a sane >> document. Thanks! >> >> -Jason >> > I'm willing to take up the challenge. I'll have a look this weekend > and see what I can do to help. > > - Chris > I've updated the Virtualization quick start page[1] with some technical and editorial loving. It is still severely lacking good information on creating guests (especially those other proprietary operating systems). The information on migration and cobbler should probably be taken out as well. Those topics are far too tricky for a single wiki quick start page as each would require at least a chapter to get a user up and running. I'll have a look at writing some more on administration and creating guests next time I have to recompile rawhide :) - Chris [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization_Quick_Start From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Wed Aug 20 12:35:57 2008 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 08:35:57 -0400 Subject: Virtualization Quick Start Content Update In-Reply-To: <48AB86E2.6090907@redhat.com> References: <1218227579.5380.6.camel@bruiser.localdomain> <48A4E0CE.9020108@redhat.com> <48AB86E2.6090907@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219235757.3956.1.camel@bruiser.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-08-20 at 12:52 +1000, Christopher Curran wrote: > Christopher Curran wrote: > > Jason wrote: > >> https://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization_Quick_Start has been > >> updated as much as my meager knowledge can do. I am humbly requesting > >> some technical and grammar editing so we can make sure it is a sane > >> document. Thanks! > >> > >> -Jason > >> > > I'm willing to take up the challenge. I'll have a look this weekend > > and see what I can do to help. > > > > - Chris > > > I've updated the Virtualization quick start page[1] with some technical > and editorial loving. It is still severely lacking good information on > creating guests (especially those other proprietary operating systems). > The information on migration and cobbler should probably be taken out as > well. Those topics are far too tricky for a single wiki quick start page > as each would require at least a chapter to get a user up and running. > > I'll have a look at writing some more on administration and creating > guests next time I have to recompile rawhide :) > > > > - Chris > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Virtualization_Quick_Start > Thanks for the input and I took out the cobbler/koan part. :) -Jason -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 20 19:42:00 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 12:42:00 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-13 IRC log Message-ID: <1219261320.7342.132.camel@calliope.phig.org> On the wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20080813 12:04 < quaid> 12:04 < quaid> :) 12:04 < quaid> no, I got lost and never made it to the agenda this morning 12:04 < quaid> it's essentially the same 12:05 < quaid> I was hoping ianweller_afk and G might be here, but I think their thuoghts are well known 12:05 < quaid> about wiki page naming 12:05 < quaid> but I think we need a compromise, I think I know what it has to be, and it is not that great but not terrible. 12:05 < couf> G is on IRC-break 12:05 -!- ke4qqq_ [n=ke4qqq at 64.89.94.194.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #fedora-docs 12:06 < quaid> couf: as an action to protect his life and sanity? or just AFK? 12:06 < couf> the former 12:06 -!- ke4qqq [n=ke4qqq at 64.89.94.194.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 12:06 -!- ke4qqq_ is now known as ke4qqq 12:07 -!- MegaCoder [n=MegaCode at apac-nc01-o.oracle.co.jp] has quit ["Leaving."] 12:07 < quaid> ok 12:07 < quaid> well, like I said, opinion known, etc. :) 12:09 < quaid> ok, so here's my agenda, any additions? 12:09 < quaid> 1. finish wiki page naming 12:09 < quaid> 2. scope package guidelines changes 12:09 < couf> I'm is totally out the loop, but I guess you guys made some good arguments and can make a good decision about it 12:09 < quaid> 3. double-check on release deadlines 12:10 < quaid> 4. ?? 12:10 < quaid> couf: 17 < quaid> overholt: can you refresh me on what came from talks with JPackage and Fedora? 12:10 < quaid> ... 12:10 < quaid> sorry, bad paste 12:10 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help_talk:Wiki_Structure 12:10 < quaid> couf: that's the discussion we had, worth a catch up on 12:11 < quaid> ok, if we have any other agenda items ... 12:11 < couf> quaid: thanks 12:11 < ke4qqq> quaid can we add Example_wiki_page to the agenda 12:12 < quaid> ke4qqq: thx 12:14 -!- denise [n=ddumas at 66.187.234.199] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:14 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who_Know at fedora/sonarguy] has joined #fedora-docs 12:15 * stickster gets off phone with mgr 12:15 < couf> we can move to -meeting if we want to 12:16 < stickster> yeah, what couf said ^^ 12:17 -!- denise [n=ddumas at nat/redhat/x-cb3ab6211b37d149] has joined #fedora-docs 12:18 < quaid> 12:18 < quaid> 12:18 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Docs : Wiki page naming 12:18 < quaid> ok, figuring couf has caught up a bit 12:18 < quaid> I have to admit I've waffled again :) 12:19 < quaid> because the compromise position is different from the hardline MediaWiki one 12:19 < quaid> so I'm back to this: 12:20 < quaid> 1. Foo_Project/ and Foo_SIG/ effectively separate contributor-focused content, by subject areas, away from end-user content 12:20 -!- kushal [n=kdas at nat/redhat-in/x-2362c7bb61c194de] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:20 < quaid> 2. Help_with_Foo is the best way to do *all* end-user focused content; all such content can be moved from e.g. SELinux/FAQ to FAQ_for_SELinux 12:21 < quaid> 3. Then we move all meeting stuff to Meeting:, archive stuff to Archive:, all without changing any other part of the name 12:21 < quaid> the controversy is around 1. 12:21 < quaid> here are my reasons why I think that has to be the compromise: 12:21 -!- cassmodiah [n=cass at p54AB6F63.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:21 < quaid> * it's too hard to explain why a massive change of everything to people who *like* stuff organized by Nested/Folders 12:22 < quaid> * People will get the need to have Real_named_documents, due to search, readibility, etc. 12:22 -!- jsmith [n=jsmith at 72.21.36.138] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:22 * jsmith realizes the time and sneaks in 12:22 < quaid> * We can likely convince people to accept moving names _within_ the Foo_Project/ space 12:22 * quaid pm's the status to jsmith 12:23 < quaid> * Since contributors like, are used to, and don't care much about changing from nesting (all guessed by me without a single poll!), why make them move? 12:24 < quaid> * Don't make the Foo_Project nesting a requirement either way, let people do it themselves 12:24 < quaid> * We give clear guidelines on how to clean up what is there and how to name in the future 12:24 < quaid> 12:24 < quaid> thoughts? 12:24 * ke4qqq respectfully disagrees 12:24 < quaid> yay! 12:24 < quaid> go ahead 12:25 < ke4qqq> thinks single guide to doing it is best.....do it nested or plaintext 12:25 < ke4qqq> plaintext is better for searching 12:25 < quaid> the / doesn't get in the way 12:25 < ke4qqq> pain is no worse for doing some renaming as it is to doing all renaming 12:25 < quaid> it's treated by the search tool as a space 12:25 < ke4qqq> does google agree with that though? 12:25 < ke4qqq> does google treat it as a space? 12:26 < quaid> how do we test that? 12:26 < quaid> I mean, I google for "live usb how to" and the right page turns up 12:26 < quaid> and it has zero spaces, it's all nested CamelCase 12:26 < ke4qqq> hmmm what do I know then 12:26 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr at fedora/JSchmitt] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 12:26 < jsmith> Yes, I think Google does the right thing 12:26 < quaid> ke4qqq: you are right that ambiguity on our part is lame 12:26 < quaid> " 12:26 < quaid> Nest or not, who cares?" 12:26 < quaid> we should guide people to not nest 12:27 -!- kushal [n=kdas at nat/redhat-in/x-2362c7bb61c194de] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:27 < quaid> but tell them they can change it or not, it's up to them, just get the damn sub_pages renamed so they can be found 12:27 < ke4qqq> we just need to pick out one 12:27 < quaid> DocsProject 12:27 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who_Know at fedora/sonarguy] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:27 < quaid> SIGs/Font was already done by nim-nim 12:28 < quaid> there is a lot of inertia in the nesting, unless we are prepared to do it all ourselves, we are in the position of convincing others of what is best 12:28 < quaid> and there is a lot of legacy 12:29 < jsmith> We can't force others to do the right thing... all we can do is explain correct principles in such a way that they want to do the right thing 12:29 < jsmith> I think it's a matter of explaining why what they're used to is a bad idea 12:29 < ke4qqq> so if searching isn't the reason - why not use nested? 12:30 < jsmith> I thought searching was the reason 12:30 -!- buggbot [n=supybot at landfill.bugzilla.org] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:30 * ke4qqq is confused 12:30 -!- buggbot [n=supybot at landfill.bugzilla.org] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:30 < quaid> ke4qqq: the nesting would all have to be single words 12:30 < quaid> this would work though, in terms of MW search: 12:31 < quaid> Foo_Project/Tool_docs/Doc_about_something 12:31 < quaid> it's not natural language, but it would turn up for searches on "Tool" " 12:31 < quaid> "something" and "foo" 12:31 -!- techbugs [n=siddhart at 122.163.194.65] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:33 < couf> fwiw I'm +1 with quaid's compromise 12:34 < quaid> jsmith: I'm not convinced we can explain the "why" well enough to get a higher rate of compliance, if the "what" involves completely renaming every single page 12:34 < quaid> if the "what" is, "Do this now to make your stuff findable, do this in the future to make it good, here is the best and recommended way," then I think the why goes over better. 12:34 < couf> renaming every page is just overkill and loss of manpower 12:35 < quaid> couf: and if it's really worth it, it will happen for most pages over time anyway 12:35 < couf> true 12:38 < jsmith> quaid: I hate to even ask this out loud, but if we can't explain the "why" well enough, then why are we wasting our time? 12:38 < ke4qqq> has to admit that is a question I was asking myself 12:38 < quaid> now now 12:38 < jsmith> Playing devil's advocate here for a second -- don't get upset at me :-) 12:39 < quaid> two main reasons: 12:39 < quaid> * we need natural language with spaces to get search to be useful 12:39 < quaid> * we need natural language for sane translation 12:39 < quaid> sane(r) trans, anyway 12:39 < jsmith> OK, I'm perfectly happy with those reasons. 12:39 < quaid> i.e., nesting and idioms don't mix well 12:40 < jsmith> But you don't think we can articulate those reasons in such a way that people will want to do the right thing with regards to wiki naming? 12:40 < quaid> so, our "why" covers that but does not fully justify the removing of the single-level of nesting 12:41 * quaid notes search results are a bit funky with Foo_Project all grouped together, but the quality of that is a matter of taste. 12:41 < ke4qqq> those are satisfactory reasons but if they are good enough to remove most nesting why not all. 12:41 < quaid> there are some reasonable arguments in favor of a single-level of nesting 12:42 < quaid> it gets us a sorting of content by contributor interest area without using the more restrictive Namespace: trick in MW 12:42 < quaid> Namespace: moves it outside of the default search 12:42 < quaid> this all stems from having two audiences, IMO 12:43 < quaid> and it being confusing to either audience to find e.g. end-user docs in the contributor search results 12:44 * stickster is assuming all bets are off in the User: namespace 12:45 < quaid> yep 12:46 < quaid> in fact, that's something we do want to specify; use that area at will 12:48 < stickster> Discussion seems to have petered out. 12:48 < stickster> Has a decision been taken then? 12:48 -!- mclasen [n=mclasen at nat/redhat/x-281775b2292f2fd4] has left #fedora-meeting ["There must be some way out of here."] 12:48 < stickster> Is wiki naming put to bed now? 12:49 -!- Keybuk [n=scott at quest.netsplit.com] has left #fedora-meeting ["???"] 12:49 * ke4qqq didn't see a decision 12:50 < wonderer1> so what are so far the naming conventions? if users did not do their own user. name naming... 12:50 * couf hopes to put it to bed 12:51 * ke4qqq is fine with decision by fiat 12:51 < wonderer1> for me it works fine. just want to know befor I start with orphaned pages and so on... 12:51 < stickster> quaid: Can you summarize the final decision on how we're going to do this? 12:53 < quaid> hmm 12:53 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr at p4FDD252C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:53 < quaid> I think it's basically on Help:Wiki_Naming (a name that doesn't quite follow the directions) 12:54 < quaid> I can do a final write up there 12:54 < wonderer1> sounds good 12:54 < quaid> but before I say "this is the decision" 12:54 < quaid> are we in fact decided? 12:54 < quaid> the objections that ke4qqq brings up are the same ones I hear in other places, 12:55 < stickster> Let's make this clear. 12:55 < quaid> so this is what I would like to do: 12:55 < quaid> * Write up a decision to vote up or down on the mailing list 12:55 < quaid> * invite discussion 12:56 * jsmith wonders if he haven't already had enough discussion (how many weeks has this been on the agenda?) 12:56 < stickster> Wait, haven't we had that before? 12:56 * ke4qqq disagrees - we've tried discussion (me once, ian once, and quaid once) and none ensued 12:56 < quaid> * see if we can get a good "why" page from that discussion as a reason behind the "what" in Help:Wiki_structure 12:56 < quaid> hmm 12:56 < jsmith> I say we vote here, now, and then work to get a good "why" page up 12:56 * couf needs to run, sorry folks 12:57 < quaid> fine 12:57 < stickster> couf: Please vote later by email if desired 12:57 < ke4qqq> jsmith: +1 12:57 < couf> stickster: will do 12:57 -!- giarc [i=hidden-u at gnat.asiscan.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:57 -!- drago01 [n=linux at chello062178124130.3.13.univie.teleweb.at] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:57 * jsmith would rather get flamed for a quick vote than see this drag on for another month 12:57 < stickster> jsmith: +1 12:58 < quaid> +1 or -1 to: Do we permit _Project and _SIG content to remain under a single nesting? 12:58 < couf> +1 12:58 < stickster> +1 12:58 < jsmith> I have no problem with single nesting personally 12:58 < jsmith> +1 12:58 < wonderer1> +1 12:58 < ke4qqq> +1 12:58 < quaid> I'm +1, fwiw 12:58 < stickster> yay! 12:58 < quaid> ok, then we have ianweller_afk outvoted anyway :) 12:58 < quaid> note: permit, not encourage :) 12:59 < couf> +1 :) 12:59 < stickster> +1 again. 12:59 < quaid> everyone watch that page 12:59 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_structure 12:59 * couf really runs 12:59 < quaid> and I'll write up the final version 13:00 < quaid> unless someone else feels it is clear to them and wants to do it :) 13:00 * jsmith makes a motion to propose that quaid do it 13:01 * stickster +1's jsmith and then slaps him 13:01 < quaid> time's up anyway 13:01 < quaid> I'll do it 13:01 < quaid> anything more, see you on #fedora-docs 13:01 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 20 20:23:38 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:23:38 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-20 IRC log Message-ID: <1219263818.7342.144.camel@calliope.phig.org> Remove this line, then fill in date above and paste IRC log here In wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20080820 12:02 < quaid> 12:03 * ke4qqq is here 12:03 < quaid> moi aussi 12:04 * ke4qqq introduces kishan 12:04 < ke4qqq> say hi kishan 12:06 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting 12:06 < zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) 12:06 * quaid fixes the date on there :) 12:06 -!- MegaCoder [n=MegaCode at apac-nc01-o.oracle.co.jp] has left #fedora-docs [] 12:08 < quaid> ok, so ... 12:08 < quaid> actually, maybe we want to hit the easy thing first 12:08 < quaid> the beta notes 12:08 < kishan> hello... 12:09 -!- LinuxParasite [n=worrallm at adsl-77-86-97-170.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #fedora-docs 12:09 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Beta/ReleaseNotes 12:09 < zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) 12:09 < quaid> tasks from there are: 12:09 < quaid> 1. draft a Beta release announcement (anyone in Docs) 12:10 < quaid> 2. make sure that the Beta one-sheet is getting even *more* love from developers, packagers, artists, etc. 12:10 * quaid looks for current due date 12:10 < quaid> 02 Sep 12:10 -!- rwmjones [n=rwmjones at 87-127-66-208.no-dns-yet.enta.net] has joined #fedora-docs 12:10 < quaid> is the Beta release currently 12:11 < quaid> so that means we want it ready by 01 Sep at the latest 12:11 < quaid> ~15 days 12:12 * ke4qqq is behind on his beat 12:12 < quaid> Action: Everyone -- talk about the Beta one-sheet to other's in the project, esp. beats you are writing 12:12 < quaid> -- blog posts 12:12 < quaid> -- email to lists 12:12 < quaid> -- IRC/f2f 12:12 < ke4qqq> what's the one sheet?? sorry for the ignorance... 12:12 < quaid> ke4qqq: there is an explanation somewhere, but the short of it is 12:13 < quaid> Alpha and Beta release notes are a one-page on the wiki 12:13 < quaid> we used to do a full XML and trans, and it was really wasted time 12:13 < quaid> our first Beta => XML is for RC1 12:13 < quaid> which then includes time for trans, so the trans gets an RC treatment 12:14 < ke4qqq> ahhh ok - so one sheet is english only? - what are we supposed to talk up? 12:14 < quaid> that people need to add their stuff to that page 12:14 < quaid> what do they want tested? 12:14 < quaid> what is working? what isn't? 12:14 < quaid> etc. 12:14 < ke4qqq> ahhh ok 12:15 < quaid> http://iquaid.org/2008/07/21/lets-talk-about-release-notes-shall-we/ 12:15 < zodbot> (at iquaid.org) 12:15 < quaid> that's a fair explanation 12:16 < quaid> any other questions? or thoughts on this topic? 12:16 < ke4qqq> none from me 12:19 < quaid> ok then! 12:19 -!- LinuxParasite [n=worrallm at adsl-77-86-97-170.karoo.KCOM.COM] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:19 < quaid> looks like #fedora-meeting is open 12:19 < quaid> let's move the next topic over there 12:20 < quaid> 12:20 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Documentation : catching up on past weeks meeting summary and tasks 12:21 < quaid> Catch up on minutes/summary from previous weeks 12:21 < quaid> * What's going on in the world? * Are all tasks written down? 12:21 -!- John5342_Away is now known as John5342 12:22 < quaid> so I'm looking over the previous few weeks of meetings .. 12:26 < quaid> ok, so it's just last week's missing 12:26 < quaid> what I'm going to do now is: 12:26 < quaid> leave the channel open for discussion 12:26 < quaid> while I post the IRC log and review it for tasks 12:26 < quaid> which was primarily talking about wiki naming 12:27 * ke4qqq wonders if wiki naming as ever codified based on those decisions 12:27 < ke4qqq> as in on the wiki 12:28 < quaid> it wasn't :) 12:28 < quaid> but it's not far 12:28 < quaid> the Help:Wiki_structure page just needs clearing 12:28 < quaid> ke4qqq: do you want to hit that page and see if you can get it to sync with last week's decision? 12:29 < ke4qqq> sure I can do that 12:31 -!- LetoTo [n=paul at bofh.xelerance.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:32 -!- LetoTo [n=paul at bofh.xelerance.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:33 -!- llaumgui [n=llaumgui at cro34-2-82-226-153-125.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:33 -!- llaumgui [n=llaumgui at cro34-2-82-226-153-125.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:36 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20080813 12:36 < zodbot> (at fedoraproject.org) 12:38 < quaid> oops, I didn't add in the bottom on that 12:38 * quaid re-does 12:40 -!- j-rod [n=jarod at nat/redhat/x-6c8a743783ae96f0] has left #fedora-meeting ["I give up!"] 12:41 < quaid> ok, that's complete now 12:42 -!- lxo [n=aoliva at 201.82.112.27] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:43 -!- victorv [n=chatzill at nat/sun/x-3c6d1ac248ed589d] has left #fedora-meeting [] 12:47 -!- red_alert [i=50dbe910 at gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-0b8ba3812b592193] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:49 * ke4qqq sense relatively slow meeting 12:52 < quaid> aye 12:52 < ke4qqq> so on the assumption that this is still open discussion time - 12:52 < ke4qqq> oops 12:52 < quaid> oh, go ahead 12:52 < quaid> sometimes it's slow, sometimes not ... good chance to do some work -in-meeting to catch up 12:52 -!- sdziallas_ [n=sebastia at p57A2FC40.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:53 < ke4qqq> kishan - one of the things that needs to be done still is confirming the accuracy of the stuff in the UG - ie that the directions are all correct. 12:53 < quaid> ke4qqq: we didn't address Example_wiki_page last week, do you want to talk about it today? 12:53 < ke4qqq> we can do that 12:55 < quaid> I like the concept; we can draw all kinds of use cases from Help:Wiki_editing 12:56 < ke4qqq> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Example_wiki_page - thus far no one has edited the page or changed anything - stickster did comment on my lack of finishing a paragraph 12:57 < ke4qqq> regarding the page naming issue 12:57 -!- fcrippa [n=fcrippa at 91.80.122.208] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:59 < quaid> ok, I hadn't looked at that page directly before, sry 12:59 < ke4qqq> np 12:59 -!- trausche [n=rat at p57AB33DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #fedora-meeting [] 12:59 < quaid> how about a link and explanation at that top that it is not supposed to show _how_ wiki markup works, or what formatting to use 12:59 < quaid> then link to the appropriate Help: pages? 13:00 < quaid> i.e., opposite of where I said to draw examples; don't bother to repeat content, just link to it :) 13:00 * quaid can do that edit, just checking the idea 13:00 < ke4qqq> patches welcome :) but that's a good idea. 13:00 -!- cwickert [n=chris at p508FC564.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:01 -!- cmpahar [n=cmpahar at 83.212.121.40] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:02 -!- jnettlet [n=jnettlet at c-76-118-159-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:03 * quaid sends last week summary and goes to edit 13:03 < quaid> ok, we can finish here then 13:03 < quaid> last two items: 13:03 < quaid> ACTION: quaid sends email to list to get help with Packaging_guidelines 13:03 < quaid> ACTION: quaid to send summary of today :D 13:03 < quaid> finito! 13:03 < quaid> any more, #fedora-docs as usual 13:03 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 20 20:02:54 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 13:02:54 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-13 Summary Message-ID: <1219262574.7342.138.camel@calliope.phig.org> Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below Attendees: ----------- * quaid * couf * ke4qqq * stickster * jsmith * wonderer1 Summary: --------- * Resolved Help:Wiki_structure discussion around page naming ** Project pages are in a single-nested structure, then flat inside of that nesting *** FooProject/Bar/Baz => FooProject/Bar_baz **** Not just adding spaces but making pages have a plain language name ** End-user pages have zero nesting *** Docs/User_Guide => User_Guide **** Use Category:Documentation or Category:Draft_Documentation instead of Docs/{Drafts} -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 20 21:34:08 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2008 14:34:08 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-08-20 Summary Message-ID: <1219268048.7342.170.camel@calliope.phig.org> Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below Attendees: ----------- quaid ke4qqq kishan Summary: --------- 1. Beta one sheet must be ready by 01 September https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Beta/ReleaseNotes HELP -- someone in Docs to write the Beta release announcement HELP -- tell everyone you know :) that the Beta relnotes needs their content * Blog posts * IRC/f2f * mailing lists Beta gets higher attention levels * What do you want tested? * What works? * What is broken? * How to work around stuff * etc. Some pointers: http://iquaid.org/2008/07/21/lets-talk-about-release-notes-shall-we/ 2. Then we worked on the summary and tasks from last week Dave (ke4qqq) worked on Help:Wiki_structure. Karsten (quaid) worked on tasks, summaries, and IRC logs. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fab at fedoraproject.org Fri Aug 22 22:05:15 2008 From: fab at fedoraproject.org (Fabian Affolter) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 00:05:15 +0200 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide Message-ID: <48AF381B.8070201@fedoraproject.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, There were some mistakes in the translation-quick-start-guide - - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456258 - - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456268 - - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456269 I fixed this three bug reports. Can please somebody check and verify the syntax of the attached file? In case I messed up the file. And then upload it to the CVS. Please rebuild the pot file for the translation. Kind regards, Fabian - -- Fingerprint: 2F6C 930F D3C4 7E38 6AFA 4EB4 E23C D2DD 36A4 397F Fedora always leads and never follows. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkivOBsACgkQ4jzS3TakOX9ZbwCfcM+ofgv7Oxa+pfUcTCX0wXS1 gvsAoIeDKGKva0lgB1uYxIw2AlWtNszN =T2XQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Accounts_And_Subscriptions.xml Type: text/xml Size: 12914 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Aug 23 08:36:12 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 01:36:12 -0700 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide In-Reply-To: <48AF381B.8070201@fedoraproject.org> References: <48AF381B.8070201@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1219480572.10269.71.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 00:05 +0200, Fabian Affolter wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all, > > There were some mistakes in the translation-quick-start-guide > > - - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456258 > - - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456268 > - - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456269 > > I fixed this three bug reports. Can please somebody check and verify > the syntax of the attached file? In case I messed up the file. And > then upload it to the CVS. Verified, committed to CVS, along with new POT file. I reverted the changes from bz#456268 because the original article usage was correct. Thanks for the fixes, Fabian, - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Aug 23 17:43:02 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:43:02 -0700 Subject: Seneca tech comms and Fedora Docs Message-ID: <1219513382.10269.102.camel@calliope.phig.org> As one of the efforts in the Fedora/Seneca collaboration[1], the Fedora Documentation project is working with a technical communications class at Seneca College. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Seneca_College_tech_communications_class_plan_2008-2009 This is an extension of the new Fedora collaboration, which is building on the success Seneca College has had pairing with (primarily) the Mozilla Foundation. The basic idea[2] came up in a session at FUDCon[3]. After that, I met with Beth Agnew and Chris Tyler[4]. Beth is coordinating on the Seneca College side. She has a vision for the collaboration that fits very well with the way we do things in Fedora. We can expect students to start appearing very soon after the class starts this Fall. Our tasks: * Get a complete task list done ** Full specifications and requirements * Make a list of willing mentors to work with students For an example, I'm going to pick on Eric Christensen (Sparks): 1. Sparks completes a basic outline for the user and administrator sections of the Security Guide, with full consideration for existing content coming in from the Fedora Deployment Guide. 2. Next he and other Security Guide writers create a stand-alone task page with full details and assignments. 3. By keeping a goal on modular and sustainable work, there is plenty to give students to work on in both wiki and XML, with small and large writing/editing projects. I'm really excited about this project. It is going to bring new and passionate contributors, get multiple documents completed, and help us hammer out modern processes where we are lacking. Goals and philosophies between the Seneca College tech comms group and the Fedora Project are highly similar. I had many "Yes!" moments talking with Beth where she was describing how they do the writing class. - Karsten [1] There doesn't seem to be a canonical page on this project (yet). http://lwn.net/Articles/283274/ http://www.linux.com/feature/140097 http://cdot.senecac.on.ca/ [2] http://iquaid.org/2008/04/10/looking-for-a-tech-writing-class-to-help/ [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Seneca_Talk_FUDCon10 [4] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Meeting_20080709_Seneca_technical_communications_collaboration -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Aug 23 17:52:20 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 10:52:20 -0700 Subject: Wiki Outage Notification - 2008-08-14 03:00 UTC & 2008-08-15 03:00 UTC In-Reply-To: <1218663181.12777.80.camel@victoria> References: <1218617130.2767.23.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <1218617517.2767.27.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080813211345.GD6642@gmail.com> <1218663181.12777.80.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <1219513940.10269.105.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 21:33 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 16:13 -0500, Ian Weller wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 08:51:57PM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote: > > > I'll be adding "FedoraProject" "Help" and "Category" namespaces to the > > > default wiki search for all current users. If there are any others > > > people can think of, please speak now. > > > > > User namespace would be helpful, a lot of people write documentation > > that is good and in User but isn't necessarily proper for main > > namespace. Just what I see -- I'm sure somebody will fight this ;) > > Me among them. :-) User: needs to be held back so people have a good > place to write drafts that won't be searched. Any documentation that's > designed to live on after drafting should migrate out of User:, and > User: should be default non-searchable. Can you tell my use case from > this email? :-D +1 We want to put this in the Help:Wiki_structure, I think, so it is clear to people that User: is specifically sandbox space. If anyone has docs in their User: space, it's time rename them. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Aug 23 18:11:00 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 11:11:00 -0700 Subject: Example wiki page In-Reply-To: <20080812171047.GA28992@gmail.com> References: <1218540326.4986.3.camel@victoria> <20080812171047.GA28992@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1219515060.10269.111.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 12:10 -0500, Ian Weller wrote: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 07:25:26AM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > But this page looks good to me! You might also want a link to > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing as well. > > > And hopefully, integrate as much content as possible into [[Example wiki > page]] without making it look like Help:Editing. > > Also you can use in pages so that when they > edit the page (view the source), they can see those comments about > things. So Dave and I were talking about this, and I think we are going to keep this page as one that shows what should (and should not) be on a wiki page to call it "complete". We _could_ put a bunch of examples of how to do bulleted lists, etc., but then that is a repetition of content that is available elsewhere. Hopefully this scope is complete: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Example_wiki_page#Introduction - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Aug 23 19:02:37 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2008 12:02:37 -0700 Subject: Login required to see meeting minutes In-Reply-To: References: <9d2c731f0808081120g53c9eb17y95eddc6b0533ebbd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1219518157.10269.125.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, 2008-08-08 at 13:38 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote: > On Fri, 8 Aug 2008, John Babich wrote: > > > Unless my proxy is playing tricks on me, which it has been known to > > do, when I tried to view the latest FDSCo meeting minutes at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20080806, I was > > prompted to log in. > > > > Can we fix this so that anyone can view the FDSCo meeting minutes? > > > > Fixed Was this because John had an expired cookie and that page was HTTP and not HTTPS? FWIW, when we first switched over, I was constantly having to log in to the wiki. We couldn't figure out why until Mike asked if I were trying to hit the page via HTTP only. Yes, in fact, I was because that was the URL in my Firefox history, so when I started to type "fedor...", it would fill out, "http://fedoraproject.org/" and I would go from there. Because of the way MediaWiki is setup, when you are logged in, the session is entirely over SSL. Merely switching to an HTTP URL causes the "Log in" link to appear instead of your logged in account info. After I did a search and replace in my Firefox history file, this hasn't been an issue. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 19:20:45 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:20:45 -0400 Subject: Wiki Outage Notification - 2008-08-14 03:00 UTC & 2008-08-15 03:00 UTC In-Reply-To: <1219513940.10269.105.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1218617130.2767.23.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <1218617517.2767.27.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> <20080813211345.GD6642@gmail.com> <1218663181.12777.80.camel@victoria> <1219513940.10269.105.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1219605645.5104.7.camel@victoria> On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 10:52 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 21:33 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 16:13 -0500, Ian Weller wrote: > > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 08:51:57PM +1200, Nigel Jones wrote: > > > > I'll be adding "FedoraProject" "Help" and "Category" namespaces to the > > > > default wiki search for all current users. If there are any others > > > > people can think of, please speak now. > > > > > > > User namespace would be helpful, a lot of people write documentation > > > that is good and in User but isn't necessarily proper for main > > > namespace. Just what I see -- I'm sure somebody will fight this ;) > > > > Me among them. :-) User: needs to be held back so people have a good > > place to write drafts that won't be searched. Any documentation that's > > designed to live on after drafting should migrate out of User:, and > > User: should be default non-searchable. Can you tell my use case from > > this email? :-D > > +1 > > We want to put this in the Help:Wiki_structure, I think, so it is clear > to people that User: is specifically sandbox space. If anyone has docs > in their User: space, it's time rename them. :) Done: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_structure -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 24 19:15:27 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 24 Aug 2008 15:15:27 -0400 Subject: Seneca tech comms and Fedora Docs In-Reply-To: <1219513382.10269.102.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1219513382.10269.102.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1219605327.5104.4.camel@victoria> On Sat, 2008-08-23 at 10:43 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > As one of the efforts in the Fedora/Seneca collaboration[1], the Fedora > Documentation project is working with a technical communications class > at Seneca College. > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Seneca_College_tech_communications_class_plan_2008-2009 > > This is an extension of the new Fedora collaboration, which is building > on the success Seneca College has had pairing with (primarily) the > Mozilla Foundation. The basic idea[2] came up in a session at > FUDCon[3]. After that, I met with Beth Agnew and Chris Tyler[4]. Beth > is coordinating on the Seneca College side. She has a vision for the > collaboration that fits very well with the way we do things in Fedora. > We can expect students to start appearing very soon after the class > starts this Fall. > > Our tasks: > > * Get a complete task list done > ** Full specifications and requirements > * Make a list of willing mentors to work with students > > For an example, I'm going to pick on Eric Christensen (Sparks): > > 1. Sparks completes a basic outline for the user and > administrator sections of the Security Guide, with full > consideration for existing content coming in from the Fedora > Deployment Guide. > > 2. Next he and other Security Guide writers create a stand-alone > task page with full details and assignments. > > 3. By keeping a goal on modular and sustainable work, there is > plenty to give students to work on in both wiki and XML, with > small and large writing/editing projects. > > I'm really excited about this project. It is going to bring new and > passionate contributors, get multiple documents completed, and help us > hammer out modern processes where we are lacking. Goals and > philosophies between the Seneca College tech comms group and the Fedora > Project are highly similar. I had many "Yes!" moments talking with Beth > where she was describing how they do the writing class. Karsten -- thanks for kickstarting this collaboration. I added myself to the mentors list so I can help give entering students a helping hand as they learn our project and processes. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From noriko at redhat.com Mon Aug 25 00:38:03 2008 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:38:03 +1000 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide In-Reply-To: <48AF381B.8070201@fedoraproject.org> References: <48AF381B.8070201@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <48B1FEEB.3040200@redhat.com> Hello Fabian, Fabian Affolter ????????: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all, > > There were some mistakes in the translation-quick-start-guide > > - - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456258 > - - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456268 > - - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=456269 I could not notice these bugs, since the default setting of Bugzilla has been reset wrongly to exclude me for 'translation-quick-start-guide'. I have made the request for correction, so that in the future I should be able to receive a message soon as such bug filed, and thus to attend prompt manner. I am sorry this neglect happened accidentally. > > I fixed this three bug reports. Can please somebody check and verify > the syntax of the attached file? In case I messed up the file. And > then upload it to the CVS. Thank you so much for the fixes! noriko > > Please rebuild the pot file for the translation. > > Kind regards, > > Fabian > > - -- > Fingerprint: 2F6C 930F D3C4 7E38 6AFA 4EB4 E23C D2DD 36A4 397F > > Fedora always leads and never follows. > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkivOBsACgkQ4jzS3TakOX9ZbwCfcM+ofgv7Oxa+pfUcTCX0wXS1 > gvsAoIeDKGKva0lgB1uYxIw2AlWtNszN > =T2XQ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 25 17:40:15 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2008 10:40:15 -0700 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide In-Reply-To: <48B1FEEB.3040200@redhat.com> References: <48AF381B.8070201@fedoraproject.org> <48B1FEEB.3040200@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219686015.4924.25.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, 2008-08-25 at 10:38 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > I could not notice these bugs, since the default setting of Bugzilla has > been reset wrongly to exclude me for 'translation-quick-start-guide'. I > have made the request for correction, so that in the future I should be > able to receive a message soon as such bug filed, and thus to attend > prompt manner. Since I'm a CVS admin, I just made that change. If I did it correctly, it should propagate within the hour. The default assignment is now set to 'noriko at redhat.com', the QA to 'aalam at redhat.com', and Cc: includes 'stickster at gmail.com'. Let me know if you want any changes or additions to that. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mhideo at redhat.com Tue Aug 26 04:52:40 2008 From: mhideo at redhat.com (Michael Hideo-Smith) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:52:40 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Week 35 - Linux Security Guide and Linux Deployment Guide In-Reply-To: <1904345782.675891219725870621.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <787429197.675931219726360469.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Last Week: ========== Deployment Guide + Trac Page Up: https://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide + Cleaned ids + Removed unused images + Updated PO files Security Guide + Trac Page Up: https://fedorahosted.org/securityguide Next Week: ========== + Get BZ components up + More general cleaning + Integrate with new version of publican + More entity clean up + Populate Security Guide files From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 01:52:47 2008 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:52:47 -0400 Subject: Red Hat Bugzilla Change Password Request Message-ID: <200808270152.m7R1qlAY001476@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> You have (or someone impersonating you has) requested to change your Red Hat Bugzilla password. To complete the change, visit the following link: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=JgWWCTbzOq&a=cfmpw If you are not the person who made this request, or you wish to cancel this request, visit the following link: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=JgWWCTbzOq&a=cxlpw If you do nothing, the request will lapse after 3 days (at precisely 21:52 on the 29th of August, 2008) or when you log in successfully. From david at gnsa.us Tue Aug 12 12:56:32 2008 From: david at gnsa.us (David Nalley) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 08:56:32 -0400 Subject: Example wiki page In-Reply-To: <1218540326.4986.3.camel@victoria> References: <1218540326.4986.3.camel@victoria> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:25 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 00:11 -0400, David Nalley wrote: >> I have a very rough page up detailing my perception of the elements >> that make a page complete from a wiki gardening perspective. >> >> Please keep in mind since there are no predecessors to this document a >> lot of the content was made up on the fly. >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Example_wiki_page >> >> Please feel free to edit, change, comment, flame, or rewrite. > > The section on naming looks like you didn't finish your thought. :-) > But I know that the naming is something that Karsten was going to finish > up here on the list -- by tomorrow's meeting? Not sure. > > But this page looks good to me! You might also want a link to > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing as well. It's partially an unfinished thought and partially abandoned because when I asked for clarification in IRC and tried to stir up discussion on the list it generated no definitive answer. I shouldn't have left it in that state - and will go correct that, but last I heard we still have not settled on a new naming convention. From deon at deonlackey.com Thu Aug 21 20:30:13 2008 From: deon at deonlackey.com (Ella Deon Lackey) Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2008 15:30:13 -0500 Subject: self-introduction: Deon Lackey Message-ID: <48ADD055.2080408@deonlackey.com> Hi. I am signing up for the fedora-docs group. My name is Ella Deon Lackey (and I answer to Ella or Deon). I live north of Tulsa, Oklahoma (that's Central Time in the US). I am a contract tech writer and freelance writer; I work mainly with software and tech companies, although I dabble in anything - alternative energy, home furnishings, HVAC. I've been a professional writer for over six years. My main goal for joining the group is to observe, get a new way of approaching my work, forge some relationships with users and other writers. It's easy to get insulated and to fall into a habit with writing and with life in general. I want to branch out. The Fedora Project encourages collaboration and interaction at every stage of a project, and that's awesome. I'm new to the Fedora Project (despite having used Fedora or Red Hat for a few years), but I do have a lot of experience with two other Fedora Projects, Fedora Directory Server and Dogtag Certificate System (check them out at directory.fedoraproject.org and pki.fedoraproject.org). I think I could help out with the SELinux and RPM documentation on the task list, and I'm good for bug fixing and formatting changes. I have basically no real programming experience; I'm what I call a "practical user" of RHEL 4 and Fedora 8, meaning I poke around to install and configure things and use it for regular business, but I'm not adventurous about scripting things. I also have a lot of experience with wikis, static web design (HTML and CSS), very limited graphic design skills, and years of experience with DocBook XML and, to a lesser extent, XSLT. For two years, I was a newspaper reporter, so I also have experience writing articles and press releases, researching, conducting interviews, copyediting, and biting my tongue. I have no idea if I'm an excellent match for the project, although I hope I have something to offer. I think there is a lot I can learn here. pub 1024D/50464D8B 2008-08-21 Ella Lackey Key fingerprint = 9723 C4FD 7D97 4169 CD62 92AE CD60 1321 5046 4D8B sub 1024g/36683B94 2008-08-21 Thanks! Deon Lackey -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 02:01:07 2008 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:01:07 -0400 Subject: Password change request canceled Message-ID: <200808270201.m7R217aE030851@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> A request was canceled from 1. If you did not request this, it could be either an honest mistake or someone attempting to break into your Red Hat Bugzilla account. Take a look at the information below and forward this email to bugzilla-owner at redhat.com if you suspect foul play. Token: JgWWCTbzOq Token Type: password User: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Issue Date: 2008.08.26 21:52:47 Event Data: 1 Canceled Because: You have requested cancellation. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 02:02:15 2008 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:02:15 -0400 Subject: Red Hat Bugzilla Change Password Request Message-ID: <200808270202.m7R22FDD031007@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> You have (or someone impersonating you has) requested to change your Red Hat Bugzilla password. To complete the change, visit the following link: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=r48WNk3d2j&a=cfmpw If you are not the person who made this request, or you wish to cancel this request, visit the following link: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=r48WNk3d2j&a=cxlpw If you do nothing, the request will lapse after 3 days (at precisely 22:02 on the 29th of August, 2008) or when you log in successfully. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 02:06:15 2008 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:06:15 -0400 Subject: Password change request canceled Message-ID: <200808270206.m7R26FXr004141@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> A request was canceled from 1. If you did not request this, it could be either an honest mistake or someone attempting to break into your Red Hat Bugzilla account. Take a look at the information below and forward this email to bugzilla-owner at redhat.com if you suspect foul play. Token: r48WNk3d2j Token Type: password User: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Issue Date: 2008.08.26 22:02:15 Event Data: 1 Canceled Because: You have requested cancellation. From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 02:35:42 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:35:42 -0700 Subject: Red Hat Bugzilla Change Password Request In-Reply-To: <200808270202.m7R22FDD031007@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> References: <200808270202.m7R22FDD031007@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219804542.4924.138.camel@calliope.phig.org> These are me attempting to do a password recovery on this account, then see if I can hold the account and change how email is delivered. On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 22:02 -0400, bugzilla at redhat.com wrote: > You have (or someone impersonating you has) requested to change your > Red Hat Bugzilla password. To complete the change, visit the following link: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=r48WNk3d2j&a=cfmpw > > If you are not the person who made this request, or you wish to cancel > this request, visit the following link: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=r48WNk3d2j&a=cxlpw > > If you do nothing, the request will lapse after 3 days (at > precisely 22:02 on the 29th of August, 2008) or when you > log in successfully. > -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 02:35:53 2008 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:35:53 -0400 Subject: Red Hat Bugzilla Change Password Request Message-ID: <200808270235.m7R2ZrDn005404@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> You have (or someone impersonating you has) requested to change your Red Hat Bugzilla password. To complete the change, visit the following link: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=w3cwVOaSfY&a=cfmpw If you are not the person who made this request, or you wish to cancel this request, visit the following link: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/token.cgi?t=w3cwVOaSfY&a=cxlpw If you do nothing, the request will lapse after 3 days (at precisely 22:35 on the 29th of August, 2008) or when you log in successfully. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 02:44:15 2008 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:44:15 -0400 Subject: Password change request canceled Message-ID: <200808270244.m7R2iFQs006829@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> A request was canceled from 1. If you did not request this, it could be either an honest mistake or someone attempting to break into your Red Hat Bugzilla account. Take a look at the information below and forward this email to bugzilla-owner at redhat.com if you suspect foul play. Token: w3cwVOaSfY Token Type: password User: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Issue Date: 2008.08.26 22:35:53 Event Data: 1 Canceled Because: You have requested cancellation. From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 02:54:46 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 19:54:46 -0700 Subject: self-introduction: Deon Lackey In-Reply-To: <48ADD055.2080408@deonlackey.com> References: <48ADD055.2080408@deonlackey.com> Message-ID: <1219805686.4924.145.camel@calliope.phig.org> Sorry this was hanging, I found it in the admin queue, Deon sent it from a non-subscribed account, which I added to the acceptance filter. :) On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 15:30 -0500, Ella Deon Lackey wrote: > > I have no idea if I'm an excellent match for the project, although I > hope I have something to offer. I think there is a lot I can learn > here. I think you are an excellent match, but that's because I know you and your work. :) Welcome! - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 03:05:48 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:05:48 -0700 Subject: Password change request canceled In-Reply-To: <200808270244.m7R2iFQs006829@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> References: <200808270244.m7R2iFQs006829@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219806348.4924.149.camel@calliope.phig.org> I'm going to try this another way. I know have bugzilla at redhat.com held for moderation. This is not ideal, because one goal is to actually receive bz@ email here, but for now this will hold the password change requests in the admin queue for me. When I have the password recovered, I'll look in to how to get both parts of what we want -- bz@ delivering here but not sending f-docs-l account info. BTW, this is a bugzilla user account called 'fedora-docs-list at redhat.com', so it can be put in the Cc: or be assigned bugs in bugzilla. Unfortunately, that also means the password recovery requests are sent here, to this open channel. :/ thx - Karsten On Tue, 2008-08-26 at 22:44 -0400, bugzilla at redhat.com wrote: > A request was canceled from 1. > > If you did not request this, it could be either an honest > mistake or someone attempting to break into your Red Hat Bugzilla account. > > Take a look at the information below and forward this email > to bugzilla-owner at redhat.com if you suspect foul play. > > Token: w3cwVOaSfY > Token Type: password > User: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Issue Date: 2008.08.26 22:35:53 > Event Data: 1 > Canceled Because: You have requested cancellation. > -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 27 13:03:00 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:03:00 +0000 Subject: self-introduction: Deon Lackey In-Reply-To: <48ADD055.2080408@deonlackey.com> References: <48ADD055.2080408@deonlackey.com> Message-ID: <1219842180.18234.19.camel@victoria> On Thu, 2008-08-21 at 15:30 -0500, Ella Deon Lackey wrote: > Hi. Hi Deon! > I'm new to the Fedora Project (despite having used Fedora or Red Hat > for a few years), but I do have a lot of experience with two other > Fedora Projects, Fedora Directory Server and Dogtag Certificate > System(check them out at directory.fedoraproject.org and > pki.fedoraproject.org). I think I could help out with the SELinux and > RPM documentation on the task list, and I'm good for bug fixing and > formatting changes. > > I have basically no real programming experience; I'm what I call a > "practical user" of RHEL 4 and Fedora 8, meaning I poke around to > install and configure things and use it for regular business, but I'm > not adventurous about scripting things. I also have a lot of > experience with wikis, static web design (HTML and CSS), very limited > graphic design skills, and years of experience with DocBook XML and, > to a lesser extent, XSLT. For two years, I was a newspaper reporter, > so I also have experience writing articles and press releases, > researching, conducting interviews, copyediting, and biting my tongue. Ha, sense of humor definitely helps! And your other skills will serve you well around here. We still maintain quite a bit of DocBook XML here, not the least of which is the Release Notes, the Installation Guide, and I think we have a RPM Guide in those boxes over in the corner. We are trying out the concept of moving these docs to Fedora Hosted as individual projects, and maintaining them there. > I have no idea if I'm an excellent match for the project, although I > hope I have something to offer. I think there is a lot I can learn > here. We're overjoyed to have you -- please join us in IRC Freenode at #fedora-docs. Many people there can offer advice on how you can maintain a presence there even while you're offline if you don't do that already. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 27 13:06:54 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:06:54 +0000 Subject: Example wiki page In-Reply-To: References: <1218540326.4986.3.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <1219842414.18234.23.camel@victoria> On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 08:56 -0400, David Nalley wrote: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:25 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, 2008-08-12 at 00:11 -0400, David Nalley wrote: > >> I have a very rough page up detailing my perception of the elements > >> that make a page complete from a wiki gardening perspective. > >> > >> Please keep in mind since there are no predecessors to this document a > >> lot of the content was made up on the fly. > >> > >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Example_wiki_page > >> > >> Please feel free to edit, change, comment, flame, or rewrite. > > > > The section on naming looks like you didn't finish your thought. :-) > > But I know that the naming is something that Karsten was going to finish > > up here on the list -- by tomorrow's meeting? Not sure. > > > > But this page looks good to me! You might also want a link to > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing as well. > > It's partially an unfinished thought and partially abandoned because > when I asked for clarification in IRC and tried to stir up discussion > on the list it generated no definitive answer. > I shouldn't have left it in that state - and will go correct that, but > last I heard we still have not settled on a new naming convention. I think we settled on the following as acceptable: fp.o/wiki/This_is_okay fp.o/wiki/Subproject/This_is_okay Note the wiki interprets those underlines as spaces, so if you start a new page "This is okay" the wiki will generate that first actual page link. Under sub-projects we should do the same thing, so the sub-project gets one directory's worth of "grace" for their own name, but under that we use plain language page names. In other words, try to use spaces to make things more like regular language and less like a techie directory listing: fp.o/wiki/Okay/This/NotReally/GoodAtAll Karsten, correct me if I'm wrong please, I don't want to give anybody a bum steer. -- Paul W. Frields gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://paul.frields.org/ - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 20:28:00 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 13:28:00 -0700 Subject: Week 35 - Linux Security Guide and Linux Deployment Guide In-Reply-To: <787429197.675931219726360469.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <787429197.675931219726360469.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219868880.4924.223.camel@calliope.phig.org> About $subject ... The generic "Linux ... Guide" titles cover a lot of ground. I don't really imagine any of us covering other Linuxes, though. It's clearly outside of the Fedora Docs purview. Naturally we can just set the scope of the book to use Fedora as the canonical example. But there seems clear room for brand confusion. Wouldn't a Linux Security Guide be about Linux and not just Fedora et al? General question for the list and specifically for Michael: Should these be "Fedora ... Guide" instead? Thanks - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mhideo at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 21:30:46 2008 From: mhideo at redhat.com (Michael Hideo-Smith) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 17:30:46 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Week 35 - Linux Security Guide and Linux Deployment Guide In-Reply-To: <1446552467.1320861219872634243.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1440439510.1320881219872646340.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> ----- "Karsten 'quaid' Wade" wrote: > From: "Karsten 'quaid' Wade" > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2008 6:28:00 AM GMT +10:00 Brisbane > Subject: Re: Week 35 - Linux Security Guide and Linux Deployment Guide > > About $subject ... > > The generic "Linux ... Guide" titles cover a lot of ground. > > I don't really imagine any of us covering other Linuxes, though. > It's > clearly outside of the Fedora Docs purview. > > Naturally we can just set the scope of the book to use Fedora as the > canonical example. But there seems clear room for brand confusion. > Wouldn't a Linux Security Guide be about Linux and not just Fedora et > al? > > General question for the list and specifically for Michael: > > Should these be "Fedora ... Guide" instead? > Hi Karsten, This documentation effort is about Linux, not just Fedora/Red Hat. I'm pulling in some writers from Novell-Suse and Ubuntu to contribute to these fedora hosted projects. We all agree that the way to make Linux survive is to join our lamps together for greater illumination through procedural instruction. - Mike From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 21:34:56 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:34:56 -0700 Subject: Example wiki page In-Reply-To: <1219842414.18234.23.camel@victoria> References: <1218540326.4986.3.camel@victoria> <1219842414.18234.23.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <1219872896.4924.245.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 13:06 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Karsten, correct me if I'm wrong please, I don't want to give anybody > a > bum steer. Yes, all correct. To be fair to David, that was an old post I found stuck in the moderation queue; I think he participated in naming discussions following that. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 21:44:48 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 14:44:48 -0700 Subject: Week 35 - Linux Security Guide and Linux Deployment Guide In-Reply-To: <1440439510.1320881219872646340.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <1440439510.1320881219872646340.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219873488.4924.253.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 17:30 -0400, Michael Hideo-Smith wrote: > This documentation effort is about Linux, not just Fedora/Red Hat. I'm > pulling in some writers from Novell-Suse and Ubuntu to contribute to > these fedora hosted projects. We all agree that the way to make Linux > survive is to join our lamps together for greater illumination through > procedural instruction. Fair enough, thanks; it just wasn't otherwise clear. As we continue, I suppose we'll find a way to sort out the distro specific pieces to inherit. As it stands, considering the difference between OpenSUSE, Debian, and Fedora, I don't immediately see what the commonality of content will be. While the general approach to and architecture for deployment and security might be similar across those three bases (as examples), the specifics of implementation are highly distro specific. Do we need a separate project with the Fedora-specific content? Are you thinking of combining it in one document base with conditionals? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 27 22:04:02 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 15:04:02 -0700 Subject: Introduction - John McDonough In-Reply-To: <007b01c8f8c4$47802cc0$14c8662c@Aidan> References: <007b01c8f8c4$47802cc0$14c8662c@Aidan> Message-ID: <1219874642.4924.265.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 15:32 -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > My name is John McDonough and I am a retired computer professional living in > Midland, Michigan. I write ocasionally, have an online tutorial on PIC > microcontrollers, the occasional amateur radio magazine article, and even a > Six Sigma article. I have used Fedora since FC1, although I don't always > keep up with every release. > > I feel a certain obligation to contribute, but although I program from time > to time I can't really see myself being able to commit the time nor > intensity needed to develop. However, I believe I have a better than > average command of the English language, and when first Paul Frields and > then Karsten Wade mentioned the need for beat writers, it seemed to me that > this might be a way I could give something back. Great, John, thanks. Your interest and expertise is most welcome. > Looking at the list of open slots, it seems as if I could add something in > the gcc arena or possibly Development Tools. I use gcc regularly, mostly C > or C++, but I'm not above writing the occasional line of Fortran or Ada. At > this point, though, it isn't entirely clear how a writer learns what is > going on for subjects that don't have a PoC. Wade through subversion > comments maybe? Not that bad. Try these: * Put your name next to the beat on the wiki. * Subscribe to fedora-devel-list and scan recent archives for gcc related content. * Same for reading the Fedora planet (http://planet.fedoraproject.org) * Feel free to drop an email to that list and let them know you are covering this for the release notes. * Look in https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features for information on planned and proposed features for Fedora 10 that impact gcc et al. * New work and interest seems to be happening in gdb, as some folks appear to have given up on Frysk; changes here would be news for Fedora 10 most likely; look at Tom Tromey's blog posts to see what he is doing there: http://tromey.com/blog/ One thing that is fortunate -- Uli Drepper is one of the most consistent developers when it comes to sending us release notes content related to gcc. That would point you in more research directions. > Hmmm ... the SelfIntroduction page says you might want to know more about > me. Well, although I programmed for many moons, my real interest has been > the software process. After retiring I did a little consulting on Six Sigma > as applied to software development at some very large firms on three > continents. Prior to retiring my role was to provide the technical guidance > on large (>1MM USD) software projects. I was (thankfully) insulated from > many of the administrative burdens, although I did play a major role in our > software process. Do you think of the open source methodology as a new/different approach? Just curious, rather off-topic but an interest of mine. :) > On the personal side, I am an amateur radio operator, in fact, Radio Officer > for the state of Michigan, which means I spend a lot of time with the state > police. I like grody technical stuff, build radios, play with > microcontrollers, all that geeky stuff. Still, if one looks at my history, > both at work and at play, the people skills are not entirely absent. +1 to hams, open source seems to attract our fair share. > With David Nalley's help I got signed up to FAS, did the CLA thing, now it > looks like I have a heck of a lot to read! Either ask questions here or come visit us on IRC to work through anything that comes up. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Wed Aug 27 22:30:38 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 23:30:38 +0100 Subject: OT: Security Guides? Message-ID: <1219876238.8852.18.camel@Adam> Hi all, This is slightly OT, but I think you may well be the best list to ask :) I'm thinking about setting up my own server, but if I do decide to do it, I plan to do it right. This means I want to make sure it's properly configured and secure, and that it doesn't end up hosting some dodgy content or relaying spam around the internet! Does anyone have any suggestions for reading that I can do to help me in this quest? I know people on this list have been working on a security guide, but I'm not sure if it covers the topics I need or not. Any advice would be really appreciated. Jon From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Aug 27 22:34:49 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:34:49 -0400 Subject: OT: Security Guides? In-Reply-To: <1219876238.8852.18.camel@Adam> References: <1219876238.8852.18.camel@Adam> Message-ID: <48B5D689.5080808@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Jon, Glad you are thinking about security! If you take a peek over at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security_Guide you will find one of the projects I've been working on. It isn't complete but there are some links in there that will point you to some guides that are more complete (they are for RHEL 5 but still apply to Fedora 9). If you have any questions please feel free to ask me! Eric Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi all, > > This is slightly OT, but I think you may well be the best list to > ask :) > > I'm thinking about setting up my own server, but if I do decide to do > it, I plan to do it right. This means I want to make sure it's properly > configured and secure, and that it doesn't end up hosting some dodgy > content or relaying spam around the internet! Does anyone have any > suggestions for reading that I can do to help me in this quest? > > I know people on this list have been working on a security guide, but > I'm not sure if it covers the topics I need or not. Any advice would be > really appreciated. > > Jon > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAki11n0ACgkQL5V8yddJCO2AnwCfSSkVskDsa6MyM/TD7EF12TRf KdcAn3OMzocHR7RBn4muNnNbfZe0wrYp =hGRu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Thu Aug 28 01:03:29 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:03:29 -0700 Subject: renaming DocsProject => Docs_Project Message-ID: <1219885409.4924.278.camel@calliope.phig.org> Today I am embracing both the moniker "Docs"[1] and the new naming scheme for the wiki. The time has come to rename all of the DocsProject project space to come in line with the new naming conventions. This way we'll be a reference implementation before we start asking others to do the same. Here is the process I've thought of. Suggestions? 1. Start with DocsProject and click through to each first link. 2. In each subsequent page, pull up the page of what links here. 3. Move the page then edit each of the what-links-here pages. 4. Ensure each page is in Category:Docs Project. 4.1. Make other improvements 5. Wash, rinse, repeat I'm commencing immediately, unless anyone stops me. ;-D cheers - Karsten [1] https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/792 In professional technical writing, there is 'documentation' and the 'documentation project.' *yawn* I'm over that inconsistency. General techies say 'docs', Fedora says 'docs', and 'Docs Project' we are. -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Aug 28 01:09:30 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 18:09:30 -0700 Subject: renaming DocsProject => Docs_Project In-Reply-To: <1219885409.4924.278.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1219885409.4924.278.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1219885770.4924.280.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 18:03 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > I'm commencing immediately, unless anyone stops me. ;-D Ian stopped me with a reminder to wait for Nigel and use wikibot for some of this. Meanwhile, the planning continues ... - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Thu Aug 28 01:10:40 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 20:10:40 -0500 Subject: renaming DocsProject => Docs_Project In-Reply-To: <1219885409.4924.278.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1219885409.4924.278.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20080828011040.GA26542@gmail.com> On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 06:03:29PM -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > Today I am embracing both the moniker "Docs"[1] and the new naming > scheme for the wiki. The time has come to rename all of the DocsProject > project space to come in line with the new naming conventions. This way > we'll be a reference implementation before we start asking others to do > the same. > ... > > I'm commencing immediately, unless anyone stops me. ;-D > /me nods and salutes Aye aye! Editors aweigh! -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From noriko at redhat.com Thu Aug 28 02:41:08 2008 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:41:08 +1000 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide In-Reply-To: <1219686015.4924.25.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <48AF381B.8070201@fedoraproject.org> <48B1FEEB.3040200@redhat.com> <1219686015.4924.25.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <48B61044.9050301@redhat.com> Karsten 'quaid' Wade ????????: > On Mon, 2008-08-25 at 10:38 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > >> I could not notice these bugs, since the default setting of Bugzilla has >> been reset wrongly to exclude me for 'translation-quick-start-guide'. I >> have made the request for correction, so that in the future I should be >> able to receive a message soon as such bug filed, and thus to attend >> prompt manner. > > Since I'm a CVS admin, I just made that change. If I did it correctly, > it should propagate within the hour. The default assignment is now set > to 'noriko at redhat.com', the QA to 'aalam at redhat.com', and Cc: includes > 'stickster at gmail.com'. > > Let me know if you want any changes or additions to that. Thanks for this! Now I can see that it defaluts me as 'assigned to', however I've been excluded thus can not receive any message. The test bug has been created #460242. Once the comment submitted, I got the message on the top saying; Changes submitted for bug 460242 Email sent to: karstenwade at gmail.com, stickster at gmail.com, aalam at redhat.com, bugbot at landfill.bugzilla.org, kwade at redhat.com Excluding: noriko at redhat.com Can you include me in 'Email to be sent to'? noriko > > - Karsten > From dan at new2linux.com Thu Aug 28 02:48:10 2008 From: dan at new2linux.com (dan at new2linux.com) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:48:10 +0000 Subject: Password change request canceled In-Reply-To: <1219806348.4924.149.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <200808270244.m7R2iFQs006829@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com><1219806348.4924.149.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <609385267-1219891687-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1640518088-@bxe025.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Karsten, Sorry the cancellations were from me, I had a problem with some one requesting a password reset on my personal account a week or so ago and assumed they were doing it again. Regards, Dan O'Brien Sent from my BlackBerry? smartphone with SprintSpeed -----Original Message----- From: "Karsten 'quaid' Wade" Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:05:48 To: For participants of the Documentation Project Subject: Re: Password change request canceled -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From dev at nigelj.com Thu Aug 28 05:53:12 2008 From: dev at nigelj.com (Nigel Jones) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:53:12 +1200 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide In-Reply-To: <48B61044.9050301@redhat.com> References: <48AF381B.8070201@fedoraproject.org> <48B1FEEB.3040200@redhat.com> <1219686015.4924.25.camel@calliope.phig.org> <48B61044.9050301@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1219902792.16777.7.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 12:41 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > Karsten 'quaid' Wade ????????: > > On Mon, 2008-08-25 at 10:38 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > > > >> I could not notice these bugs, since the default setting of Bugzilla has > >> been reset wrongly to exclude me for 'translation-quick-start-guide'. I > >> have made the request for correction, so that in the future I should be > >> able to receive a message soon as such bug filed, and thus to attend > >> prompt manner. > > > > Since I'm a CVS admin, I just made that change. If I did it correctly, > > it should propagate within the hour. The default assignment is now set > > to 'noriko at redhat.com', the QA to 'aalam at redhat.com', and Cc: includes > > 'stickster at gmail.com'. > > > > Let me know if you want any changes or additions to that. > > Thanks for this! > Now I can see that it defaluts me as 'assigned to', however I've been > excluded thus can not receive any message. The test bug has been created > #460242. Once the comment submitted, I got the message on the top saying; > > Changes submitted for bug 460242 > > Email sent to: > karstenwade at gmail.com, stickster at gmail.com, aalam at redhat.com, > bugbot at landfill.bugzilla.org, kwade at redhat.com > Excluding: > noriko at redhat.com > > Can you include me in 'Email to be sent to'? > > noriko Changes submitted for bug 460242 Email sent to: karstenwade at gmail.com, stickster at gmail.com, aalam at redhat.com, noriko at redhat.com, bugbot at landfill.bugzilla.org, kwade at redhat.com Excluding: dev at nigelj.com It's a default thing, (you don't get e-mails for stuff that you do). - N.J. > > > > > > - Karsten > > > -- Nigel Jones From kwade at redhat.com Thu Aug 28 17:24:22 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:24:22 -0700 Subject: Password change request canceled In-Reply-To: <609385267-1219891687-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1640518088-@bxe025.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <200808270244.m7R2iFQs006829@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> <1219806348.4924.149.camel@calliope.phig.org> <609385267-1219891687-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1640518088-@bxe025.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <1219944262.4924.329.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 02:48 +0000, dan at new2linux.com wrote: > Karsten, > > Sorry the cancellations were from me, I had a problem with some one > requesting a password reset on my personal account a week or so ago > and assumed they were doing it again. No worries, thanks for the follow-up to solve the mystery. Even after I blocked email from buzilla at r.c, I still saw a few cancellations, but those might have been automatic. But it looks as if things are moving as normal. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Aug 28 17:28:49 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:28:49 -0700 Subject: renaming DocsProject => Docs_Project In-Reply-To: <20080828011040.GA26542@gmail.com> References: <1219885409.4924.278.camel@calliope.phig.org> <20080828011040.GA26542@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1219944529.4924.335.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-08-27 at 20:10 -0500, Ian Weller wrote: > On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 06:03:29PM -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > Today I am embracing both the moniker "Docs"[1] and the new naming > > scheme for the wiki. The time has come to rename all of the DocsProject > > project space to come in line with the new naming conventions. This way > > we'll be a reference implementation before we start asking others to do > > the same. > > > ... > > > > I'm commencing immediately, unless anyone stops me. ;-D > > > /me nods and salutes > Aye aye! Editors aweigh! So we talked for a while longer last night ... The concern is, we want to model the best behavior in our page renaming. For MW, that really is removing the nesting and putting things in categories. There is still lingering concern (from me) that finding content that is contributor focused is going to be confusing for end-users. One solution is to make sure that the title makes it clear: Joining_the_Docs_Project instead of Docs_Project/Join. The natural language is easier to translate, etc. So, although we approved using a single nesting for projects/SIGs, what practice does _our_ project want to follow? It seems that we do want to do a full rename to a flat structure with good categories. One way I thought of this was to create a CSV file with "from","to" fields. The first has the old name, the second has the new name, and wikibot can use that to rename, relink, and add to Category:Docs Project automagically. To do that, I am going to write up an initial CSV file and (try) hosting it from a git repo on fedorapeople.org, so others can easily contribute. We could instead use the {{move}} template, but that would require a lot of hitting of pages. Need to hear from Nigel that the CSV file will be useful. Even if it is not, it would be useful for us to look at all of our renaming in one pass, to get it as consistent as possible. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Aug 28 18:04:31 2008 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:04:31 -0400 Subject: Introduction - John McDonough References: <007b01c8f8c4$47802cc0$14c8662c@Aidan> <1219874642.4924.265.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <00d101c90938$853ff6b0$14c8662c@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karsten 'quaid' Wade" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 27, 2008 6:04 PM Subject: Re: Introduction - John McDonough > Do you think of the open source methodology as a > new/different approach? > > Just curious, rather off-topic but an interest of mine. :) Actualy, I've noodled that some, and wondered how/where to poke my nose in to study it further. Much like CMM, Six Sigma techniques as applied to software development can be somewhat liberating for developers, and can make them far more effective, but there is a hump to get over that, like CMM, requires strong management commitment. I don't see how that could be done in a FOSS environment, but I also haven't looked too hard (yet). Six Sigma in particular is also all about metrics, and developers and metrics mix about as well as oil and water. Still, few people seem to respond as well to improvements in productivity as developers, especially when they can see it in those numbers they abohr. (Go figure). I do see fertile fields in some of the peripheral areas of the process, though. The whole feature vetting process, for example, seems like an obvious candidate. Communications also has to be a prominent target. But I need to personally get much more of the process internalized before I can take out my stick and poke around a bit --McD From dcheinz at Cox.net Thu Aug 28 21:30:41 2008 From: dcheinz at Cox.net (dave) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:30:41 +0000 Subject: translation-quick-start-guide In-Reply-To: <1219902792.16777.7.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> References: <48AF381B.8070201@fedoraproject.org> <48B1FEEB.3040200@redhat.com><1219686015.4924.25.camel@calliope.phig.org><48B61044.9050301@redhat.com><1219902792.16777.7.camel@fantail.jnet.net.nz> Message-ID: <907575313-1219959046-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1523987523-@bxe006.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Dd?da Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile -----Original Message----- From: Nigel Jones Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:53:12 To: For participants of the Documentation Project Subject: Re: translation-quick-start-guide On Thu, 2008-08-28 at 12:41 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > Karsten 'quaid' Wade ????????: > > On Mon, 2008-08-25 at 10:38 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > > > >> I could not notice these bugs, since the default setting of Bugzilla has > >> been reset wrongly to exclude me for 'translation-quick-start-guide'. I > >> have made the request for correction, so that in the future I should be > >> able to receive a message soon as such bug filed, and thus to attend > >> prompt manner. > > > > Since I'm a CVS admin, I just made that change. If I did it correctly, > > it should propagate within the hour. The default assignment is now set > > to 'noriko at redhat.com', the QA to 'aalam at redhat.com', and Cc: includes > > 'stickster at gmail.com'. > > > > Let me know if you want any changes or additions to that. > > Thanks for this! > Now I can see that it defaluts me as 'assigned to', however I've been > excluded thus can not receive any message. The test bug has been created > #460242. Once the comment submitted, I got the message on the top saying; > > Changes submitted for bug 460242 > > Email sent to: > karstenwade at gmail.com, stickster at gmail.com, aalam at redhat.com, > bugbot at landfill.bugzilla.org, kwade at redhat.com > Excluding: > noriko at redhat.com > > Can you include me in 'Email to be sent to'? > > noriko Changes submitted for bug 460242 Email sent to: karstenwade at gmail.com, stickster at gmail.com, aalam at redhat.com, noriko at redhat.com, bugbot at landfill.bugzilla.org, kwade at redhat.com Excluding: dev at nigelj.com It's a default thing, (you don't get e-mails for stuff that you do). - N.J. > > > > > > - Karsten > > > -- Nigel Jones -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Aug 28 22:03:09 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:03:09 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Docbook question Message-ID: Does someone want to fix our Fedora template or tell me what to use instead of seg lists here: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/csi.git/ I'm starting to get more data in there but the seg lists aren't coming out right and sometimes I get a: WARNING: Unknown tag: seg. This tag may not be displayed correctly -Mike From harvey at eccnet.com Thu Aug 28 22:52:36 2008 From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:52:36 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Docbook question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <51651.207.168.47.25.1219963956.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Hi Mike: I have been 'lurking' for a while wondering where I can fit in |-)! I will be glad to fix the Docbook template since I have a lot experience in this area. Where can I find the template? Betty /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ Help Mac fight MLD (http://www.macsteam.org) Mark your calendar for October 28th (http://www.macsteam.org/BullROast.aspx) > Does someone want to fix our Fedora template or tell me what to use > instead of seg lists here: > > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/csi.git/ > > I'm starting to get more data in there but the seg lists aren't coming out > right and sometimes I get a: > > WARNING: Unknown tag: seg. This tag may not be displayed correctly > > -Mike > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From jfearn at redhat.com Thu Aug 28 23:34:30 2008 From: jfearn at redhat.com (Jeff Fearn) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 09:34:30 +1000 Subject: Docbook question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48B73606.9010208@redhat.com> Mike McGrath wrote: > Does someone want to fix our Fedora template or tell me what to use > instead of seg lists here: > > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/csi.git/ > > I'm starting to get more data in there but the seg lists aren't coming out > right and sometimes I get a: > > WARNING: Unknown tag: seg. This tag may not be displayed correctly > > -Mike > Hi Mike, FYI seg has had a make over and will be pretty and supported in version 0.35, due out next week. Cheers, Jeff. -- Jeff Fearn Software Engineer Engineering Operations Red Hat, Inc Freedom ... courage ... Commitment ... ACCOUNTABILITY [Executives Excluded] From harvey at eccnet.com Thu Aug 28 23:45:38 2008 From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:45:38 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Docbook question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4387.207.168.47.25.1219967138.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Hi Mike: I just took a look at the files you uploaded and they are parsing correctly. I had to change the 'href' in the "en-US-Books-SecurityPolicy-book.xml file to point to the write files. The 'xi' namespace also needs to be added to the attribute in the master file. What tool are you using to edit the file? It is possible the problem is a tool problem. Betty > Does someone want to fix our Fedora template or tell me what to use > instead of seg lists here: > > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/csi.git/ > > I'm starting to get more data in there but the seg lists aren't coming out > right and sometimes I get a: > > WARNING: Unknown tag: seg. This tag may not be displayed correctly > > -Mike > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ Help Mac fight MLD (http://www.macsteam.org) Mark your calendar for October 28th (http://www.macsteam.org/BullROast.aspx) From poelstra at redhat.com Fri Aug 29 01:13:18 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:13:18 -0700 Subject: Fedora 10 Docs Schedule Message-ID: <48B74D2E.4050409@redhat.com> Hi Docs Team, During the Fedora 9 release Paul helped me craft a schedule of docs tasks which we published here: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-docs-tasks.html For the Fedora 10 release I re-worked the underlying TaskJuggler file to optimize reporting and the ability to allocate resources in the future. As a result I've lost some of the dependencies that were built in and am having a hard time reconnecting them. Also as I look at some of the tasks I'm wondering if they still apply or not. I'd love your help reviewing the schedule here: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-10/f-10-docs-tasks.html and telling me: 1) Which tasks no longer apply and should be removed 2) New tasks which should be added 3) Existing tasks that are wrong --please provide the task that comes before and after along with the correct dates so I can build the right dependency logic. Thanks, John From ccurran at redhat.com Fri Aug 29 03:20:55 2008 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 13:20:55 +1000 Subject: Week 35 - Linux Security Guide and Linux Deployment Guide In-Reply-To: <1219868880.4924.223.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <787429197.675931219726360469.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <1219868880.4924.223.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <48B76B17.30203@redhat.com> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > About $subject ... > > The generic "Linux ... Guide" titles cover a lot of ground. > > I don't really imagine any of us covering other Linuxes, though. It's > clearly outside of the Fedora Docs purview. > > Naturally we can just set the scope of the book to use Fedora as the > canonical example. But there seems clear room for brand confusion. > Wouldn't a Linux Security Guide be about Linux and not just Fedora et > al? > > General question for the list and specifically for Michael: > > Should these be "Fedora ... Guide" instead? > > Thanks - Karsten > I think this doc will nicely cover fedora, centOS, Red Hat Enterprise Linux, Scientific Linux, and Oracle Enterprise Linux. That surely enough scope for the generic title. From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Aug 29 20:49:29 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:49:29 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Docbook question In-Reply-To: <48B73606.9010208@redhat.com> References: <48B73606.9010208@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Fri, 29 Aug 2008, Jeff Fearn wrote: > Mike McGrath wrote: > > Does someone want to fix our Fedora template or tell me what to use > > instead of seg lists here: > > > > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/csi.git/ > > > > I'm starting to get more data in there but the seg lists aren't coming out > > right and sometimes I get a: > > > > WARNING: Unknown tag: seg. This tag may not be displayed correctly > > > > -Mike > > > > Hi Mike, FYI seg has had a make over and will be pretty and supported in > version 0.35, due out next week. > Do you suspect that will fix my formatting problem? -Mike From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Aug 29 20:50:08 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2008 15:50:08 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Docbook question In-Reply-To: <51651.207.168.47.25.1219963956.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <51651.207.168.47.25.1219963956.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 28 Aug 2008, Betty Harvey wrote: > Hi Mike: > > I have been 'lurking' for a while wondering where I can fit in |-)! > I will be glad to fix the Docbook template since I have a lot > experience in this area. > > Where can I find the template? > Thats a good question... It appears to be part of the publican-fedora package. I'm sure if you had any patches they would accept them. I've never worked on templates like that before so I really have no idea what they do or how they work :) -Mike From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Sun Aug 31 18:16:32 2008 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2008 19:16:32 +0100 Subject: FUG? Message-ID: <507738ef0808311116w616f7cf0s1a104a7f73678422@mail.gmail.com> Hey, I wondered what was happening with the FUG/DUG these days? And perhaps more generally, what was happening with Docs Project? I've only been following along loosely, and should probably check the archives, but I was thinking about taking a crack at writing some stuff over the next few weeks. Jon