From ianweller at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 04:25:12 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Sun, 30 Nov 2008 22:25:12 -0600 Subject: heads up In-Reply-To: <64b14b300811291153t32ebf47hfb8a4fdfbe756212@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300811290820h7550b767s10075ff9c2b8efcc@mail.gmail.com> <64b14b300811291153t32ebf47hfb8a4fdfbe756212@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081201042511.GA17989@gmail.com> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 08:53:24PM +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: > I also found on this page some broken links: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/LivePersistence > > should I report broken links on this page as a bug? What is the best > thing to do? What would you do? > You could also subscribe to fedora-wiki at lists.fedoraproject.org (if you haven't already) and report them; it could then be discussed what the new links are or where alternatives could be found. -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 11:48:35 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:48:35 +0100 Subject: How should wiki work? (Please have patience with me) Message-ID: <64b14b300812010348y646ecb64v78076d4afa00f673@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm still finding using wiki search a bit troublesome. For example just by poking around the wiki I found this page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project and there I saw even more great page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/DesktopUserGuide When I typed desktop into wiki search I was immediately sent to "Desktop" page without search showing me other search results :( Is this the intended way the wiki should work? Because on this particular topic I would much more like to be taken to Desktop user guide than on this page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop Any comments? Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 11:50:52 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 12:50:52 +0100 Subject: heads up In-Reply-To: <20081201042511.GA17989@gmail.com> References: <64b14b300811290820h7550b767s10075ff9c2b8efcc@mail.gmail.com> <64b14b300811291153t32ebf47hfb8a4fdfbe756212@mail.gmail.com> <20081201042511.GA17989@gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300812010350l381c7e86tf6bbd47d327b92dd@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 5:25 AM, Ian Weller wrote: > On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 08:53:24PM +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: >> I also found on this page some broken links: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/LivePersistence >> >> should I report broken links on this page as a bug? What is the best >> thing to do? What would you do? >> > You could also subscribe to fedora-wiki at lists.fedoraproject.org (if you > haven't already) and report them; it could then be discussed what the > new links are or where alternatives could be found. > > -- > Ian Weller http://ianweller.org > GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 > "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." > ~ Douglas Adams > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > I wasn't ware of wiki list. I'll go there. Thank you. Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 12:00:57 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:00:57 +0100 Subject: moving content off of the draft wiki In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0811062002n20810872m2dd9af4454f7bbfd@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0811062002n20810872m2dd9af4454f7bbfd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <64b14b300812010400x6d8f9cf3o4aef4008c5d4ae8e@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Nov 7, 2008 at 5:02 AM, Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi! > > I think there are some great documents on /wiki/Docs/Drafts/, but > these are hard to find: > > 1. > 2. Click "Docs" > 3. I might be impatient, but I can't actually find the link to the > drafts (I know it is there somewhere though) > 4. phail :-) > > Ubuntu: > > 1. http://www.ubuntu.com/ > 2. support -> documentation > 3. Admire pretty list of documentation that desktop users and > non-Linux people probably want to know. > > openSuSE: > > 1. http://www.opensuse.org/en/ > 2. Click Discover it > 3. Click Documentation (lots of clutter, but I found it easy to find). > 4. Nice list of links. Looks pretty > rocks! > > It seems the Fedora process is too formal and too hung up on having > 'professional documentation', that all the useful information gets > left behind on wiki drafts where people aren't going to look. Maybe > instead of the fedora admin guide , the drafts sections could be > turned into mini howtos? > > Sorry if I sound grumpy :-) > > I would be happy to convert > > to DocBook if it could be placed somewhere other than in the drafts > section. > > Cheers. I agree with you. If somebody would be kind enough to put some instructions on where to move pages from drafts page and maybe even create a "Guides" category that would be on the mail fedora page I would put my time and efforts info cleaning up drafts - putting some final finish on them. For example look at this page: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=GPS_over_bluetooth_HowTo How does this page look from technical and aesthetic aspects? Cheers. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 12:05:20 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 07:05:20 -0500 Subject: heads up In-Reply-To: <20081130012255.GA27404@gmail.com> References: <64b14b300811290820h7550b767s10075ff9c2b8efcc@mail.gmail.com> <20081130012255.GA27404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081201120520.GA3937@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 07:22:55PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote: > On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 05:20:56PM +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_LiveCD_USB_HowTo > > > I'm under the belief that this should be at [[Live USB how to]] > > Why? > - having 'fedora' in the url is redundant (fedoraproject.org) > - it's not a live cd anymore if it's on usb > > Questions, comments, flames, before I do this? In line with the new naming conventions, we should try to use "normal" language for titles where possible. In this case, "How to create and use Live USB" would work. Note, though, that the page title hints that you might want to split the page into "How to create" and "How to use." Titling it simply "Live USB" is also an option. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 12:57:52 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:57:52 +0100 Subject: heads up In-Reply-To: <20081201120520.GA3937@localhost.localdomain> References: <64b14b300811290820h7550b767s10075ff9c2b8efcc@mail.gmail.com> <20081130012255.GA27404@gmail.com> <20081201120520.GA3937@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <64b14b300812010457k29ecdf98l7577af6d573407e6@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 07:22:55PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 05:20:56PM +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: >> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_LiveCD_USB_HowTo >> > >> I'm under the belief that this should be at [[Live USB how to]] >> >> Why? >> - having 'fedora' in the url is redundant (fedoraproject.org) >> - it's not a live cd anymore if it's on usb >> >> Questions, comments, flames, before I do this? > > In line with the new naming conventions, we should try to use "normal" > language for titles where possible. In this case, "How to create and > use Live USB" would work. Note, though, that the page title hints > that you might want to split the page into "How to create" and "How to > use." Titling it simply "Live USB" is also an option. Are these better now: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_configure_and_use_GPS_over_bluetooth https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Fedora_LiveCD Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 14:04:46 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 09:04:46 -0500 Subject: heads up In-Reply-To: <64b14b300812010457k29ecdf98l7577af6d573407e6@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300811290820h7550b767s10075ff9c2b8efcc@mail.gmail.com> <20081130012255.GA27404@gmail.com> <20081201120520.GA3937@localhost.localdomain> <64b14b300812010457k29ecdf98l7577af6d573407e6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081201140446.GA18297@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:57:52PM +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: > On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 07:22:55PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote: > >> On Sat, Nov 29, 2008 at 05:20:56PM +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: > >> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_LiveCD_USB_HowTo > >> > > >> I'm under the belief that this should be at [[Live USB how to]] > >> > >> Why? > >> - having 'fedora' in the url is redundant (fedoraproject.org) > >> - it's not a live cd anymore if it's on usb > >> > >> Questions, comments, flames, before I do this? > > > > In line with the new naming conventions, we should try to use "normal" > > language for titles where possible. In this case, "How to create and > > use Live USB" would work. Note, though, that the page title hints > > that you might want to split the page into "How to create" and "How to > > use." Titling it simply "Live USB" is also an option. > > Are these better now: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_configure_and_use_GPS_over_bluetooth > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Fedora_LiveCD Yes, much better -- I'd make the last one "Live_CD" instead of "LiveCD" for good measure. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 19:23:21 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:23:21 -0600 Subject: heads up In-Reply-To: <20081201140446.GA18297@localhost.localdomain> References: <64b14b300811290820h7550b767s10075ff9c2b8efcc@mail.gmail.com> <20081130012255.GA27404@gmail.com> <20081201120520.GA3937@localhost.localdomain> <64b14b300812010457k29ecdf98l7577af6d573407e6@mail.gmail.com> <20081201140446.GA18297@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081201192321.GA21208@gmail.com> On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 09:04:46AM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 01:57:52PM +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > > > Are these better now: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_configure_and_use_GPS_over_bluetooth > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Live_USB > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_create_and_use_Fedora_LiveCD > > Yes, much better -- I'd make the last one "Live_CD" instead of > "LiveCD" for good measure. > I believe we've done it! \o/ (Now let's rinse and repeat over the rest of the wiki. Discussion on fedora-wiki is a good idea.) -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Mon Dec 1 19:25:45 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 13:25:45 -0600 Subject: How should wiki work? (Please have patience with me) In-Reply-To: <64b14b300812010348y646ecb64v78076d4afa00f673@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300812010348y646ecb64v78076d4afa00f673@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081201192545.GB21208@gmail.com> On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 12:48:35PM +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: > Hi, > I'm still finding using wiki search a bit troublesome. For example > just by poking around the wiki I found this page: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project > > and there I saw even more great page: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/DesktopUserGuide > > When I typed desktop into wiki search I was immediately sent to > "Desktop" page without search showing me other search results :( > Is this the intended way the wiki should work? Because on this > particular topic I would much more like to be taken to Desktop user > guide than on this page: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop > > Any comments? > One comment only: the wiki search is weird. We have some options. 1) Remove the 'Go' button from the search bar on the side, or make it the non-default (clicking 'Search' would complete the search no matter what) 2) Fix search by fixing every single wiki page title "1" could be done somewhat quickly, I could write a patch for Infrastructure at some point. "2" is what we're working on now. -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 1 19:27:03 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 11:27:03 -0800 Subject: How should wiki work? (Please have patience with me) In-Reply-To: <64b14b300812010348y646ecb64v78076d4afa00f673@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300812010348y646ecb64v78076d4afa00f673@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081201192703.GL4382@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Dec 01, 2008 at 12:48:35PM +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: > Hi, > I'm still finding using wiki search a bit troublesome. For example > just by poking around the wiki I found this page: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project > > and there I saw even more great page: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/DesktopUserGuide > > When I typed desktop into wiki search I was immediately sent to > "Desktop" page without search showing me other search results :( > Is this the intended way the wiki should work? Because on this > particular topic I would much more like to be taken to Desktop user > guide than on this page: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Desktop The search tool does not pick out strings of characters ('desktop') from longer strings ('desktopsomethingorother'). This is one of the main reasons that page renaming is important; all the old CamelCase wiki pages are very hard to find because of that. Now that we have Fedora 10 out and people using the wiki, it is time to finish the page renaming work. We should now move this discussion to fedora-wiki-list. :) - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From nickkenney at bigpond.com Mon Dec 1 23:47:15 2008 From: nickkenney at bigpond.com (Nick Kenney) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 09:47:15 +1000 Subject: Please remove me from the Fedora docs list Message-ID: <005e01c9540f$245b0fc0$e26d8a90@nix0024920b5eb> Regards, nickkenney at bigpond.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ricky at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 1 23:52:50 2008 From: ricky at fedoraproject.org (Ricky Zhou) Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2008 18:52:50 -0500 Subject: Please remove me from the Fedora docs list In-Reply-To: <005e01c9540f$245b0fc0$e26d8a90@nix0024920b5eb> References: <005e01c9540f$245b0fc0$e26d8a90@nix0024920b5eb> Message-ID: <20081201235250.GD4274@sphe.res.cmu.edu> On 2008-12-02 09:47:15 AM, Nick Kenney wrote: > Regards, > > nickkenney at bigpond.com > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list There are instructions for unsubscribing at the bottom of each email. To unsubscribe, go to https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list and fill out the form at the bottom. Thanks, Ricky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From HVerduguez at grupobisa.com Tue Dec 2 15:45:55 2008 From: HVerduguez at grupobisa.com (HVerduguez at grupobisa.com) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 11:45:55 -0400 Subject: link cvsdocs group broken Message-ID: Hi, i was reviewing some pages and i found the link 'cvsdocs' in the page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join/CheckList is broken. In the section "All Contributors" we have the following step * Request sponsorship in the 'cvsdocs' group after you have completed your self-introduction. This is my first observation, ?what should i do? Saludos -- Hans L. Verduguez Fernandez Banco Bisa | Inform?tica 2317272(1267) | 22611267 From ianweller at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 03:09:50 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Tue, 2 Dec 2008 21:09:50 -0600 Subject: link cvsdocs group broken In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081203030950.GA9603@gmail.com> On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 11:45:55AM -0400, HVerduguez at grupobisa.com wrote: > This is my first observation, ?what should i do? > 1. Find the link to the cvsdocs group in FAS 2. Fix it :) -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 3 15:13:39 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 07:13:39 -0800 Subject: Docs meeting - F10 lessons learned Message-ID: <20081203151339.GO5411@calliope.phig.org> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting Today at 1900 UTC (11 am PST/2 pm EST) on #fedora-meeting: * Lessons learned from Fedora 10 cycle * Plans for Fedora 11 cycle o FUDCon targets (CMS, Wiki) * Go over task table * All other business -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 19:03:34 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:03:34 -0500 Subject: Docs meeting - F10 lessons learned In-Reply-To: <20081203151339.GO5411@calliope.phig.org> References: <20081203151339.GO5411@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20081203190334.GI495@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 07:13:39AM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting > > Today at 1900 UTC (11 am PST/2 pm EST) on #fedora-meeting: > > * Lessons learned from Fedora 10 cycle > * Plans for Fedora 11 cycle > o FUDCon targets (CMS, Wiki) > * Go over task table > * All other business I think we've forgotten to shift our time when we went from EDT -> EST. Everyone else has AFAIK, including FESCo before us. So their two-hour meeting continues to be 1pm - 3pm Eastern, which is now 1800-2000 UTC. Our meeting should be at 2000 UTC, I think. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 19:11:29 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:11:29 -0500 Subject: Docs meeting - F10 lessons learned In-Reply-To: <20081203190334.GI495@localhost.localdomain> References: <20081203151339.GO5411@calliope.phig.org> <20081203190334.GI495@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081203191129.GJ495@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 02:03:34PM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 07:13:39AM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting > > > > Today at 1900 UTC (11 am PST/2 pm EST) on #fedora-meeting: > > > > * Lessons learned from Fedora 10 cycle > > * Plans for Fedora 11 cycle > > o FUDCon targets (CMS, Wiki) > > * Go over task table > > * All other business > > I think we've forgotten to shift our time when we went from EDT -> > EST. Everyone else has AFAIK, including FESCo before us. So their > two-hour meeting continues to be 1pm - 3pm Eastern, which is now > 1800-2000 UTC. Our meeting should be at 2000 UTC, I think. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-November/msg00235.html Karsten sent out this reminder a while ago. The only problem is, FESCo meets before us for 2 hours and adjusted their meeting time by an hour in UTC to stay at the *same* time by human standards. We can: * Talk/barter/fight this out with them, * Keep our meeting at 3:00pm US Eastern (and probably the same human time everywhere else that observes DST), or * Meet in #fedora-docs instead of #fedora-meeting. I think the second or third alternatives are easiest, and have no preference either way. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Dec 3 19:15:38 2008 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 14:15:38 -0500 Subject: Docs meeting - F10 lessons learned References: <20081203151339.GO5411@calliope.phig.org> <20081203190334.GI495@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: We didn't forget. Seems like we said it's a global project so we'll stick with UTC --McD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2008 2:03 PM Subject: Re: Docs meeting - F10 lessons learned > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 3 20:32:49 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 15:32:49 -0500 Subject: Docs meeting - F10 lessons learned In-Reply-To: References: <20081203151339.GO5411@calliope.phig.org> <20081203190334.GI495@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081203203249.GM495@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 02:15:38PM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > We didn't forget. Seems like we said it's a global project so we'll > stick with UTC The problem being that humans work in local time, not UTC, unlike our silicon toys. :-) This really needs to be a project-wide policy, so I'll raise this on the FAB list and we can come up with a plan that can appease everyone and minimize the herky-jerky that always happens around DST changeover. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 3 21:24:32 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:24:32 -0800 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-12-03 IRC log Message-ID: <20081203212432.GA11572@calliope.phig.org> Here is the nice wiki version: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20081203 Attached is the raw log. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 3 21:25:35 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 13:25:35 -0800 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-12-03 IRC log ... attached Message-ID: <20081203212535.GB11572@calliope.phig.org> Forgot to attach the log to the previous message. :) -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- 11:20 -!- stickster changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Fedora Documentation 11:20 < quaid> 11:20 < quaid> today I've got irc log and summary again 11:20 < quaid> ACTION: talk with FAMSCo, FESCo about time changes in room 11:20 < quaid> \-> quaid 11:20 < quaid> ACTION stickster to decree something project wide, s'il vous plait 11:21 < quaid> ok, then, welcome, and ... 11:21 < stickster> Yeah, done. 11:21 < bpepple> quaid: did you guys not move for DST? 11:21 < quaid> bpepple: we did, but FAMSCo didn't 11:21 < bpepple> ah. 11:21 < quaid> bpepple: we probably need to have everyone move with DST globally 11:21 < quaid> at the same time regardless of region 11:21 < quaid> "Fedora time" 11:21 < dwmw2_yoyo> 'dst globally' is a bit of a fucked up concept :) 11:22 * quaid does his MC Hammer imitation 11:22 < bpepple> quaid: yeah, seems reasonable. 11:22 < dwmw2_yoyo> you want them to move when Europe does, when the US does? when Argentina does? 11:22 < jjmcd> Pick a county in Indiana 11:22 < ke4qqq> dwmw2_yoyo: when Fedora does ...lol 11:22 < bpepple> dwmw2_yoyo: probably europe. that's what we tried to do with FESCo. 11:22 < quaid> dwmw2_yoyo: I haven't researched so I'm doing what's called 'ideation' where we make up shit to see what is a good idea 11:22 -!- notting [n=notting at redhat/notting] has left #fedora-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] 11:22 < quaid> so i don't know how far off all those countries are 11:23 < quaid> hence, a decree and such 11:23 * quaid moves on to the Docs agenda now 11:23 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting 11:23 * ke4qqq thinks it is even more confusing - UTC is relatively simple and desont' change 11:23 < quaid> yet the reasons 11:23 < quaid> people pick meeting times 11:23 < jjmcd> ke4qqq: exactly 11:23 < quaid> are based on local time events 11:23 < dwmw2_yoyo> ke4qqq: well, there's a second at the end of this month... 11:23 < quaid> that move with DST 11:24 < quaid> ke4qqq: so less confusing, but fewer convience for all 11:24 < stickster> Right, humans move in local time. 11:24 < jjmcd> quaid: THere's good and bad to that. If you move not only is it more confusing, but if you have a conflict you always have a conflict. Keep UTC and you have a conflict half the time 11:24 < dwmw2_yoyo> whereas moving stuff around is much more confusing, and slightly more convenient for some while being _doubly_ inconvenient for others. 11:24 -!- j-rod [n=j-rod at static-72-93-233-3.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #fedora-meeting ["I give up!"] 11:25 < quaid> shall we take the discussion to fedora-devel-list about this topci? 11:25 * stickster getting ready to do the FAB thing 11:25 < dwmw2_yoyo> yeah. Meanwhile, can we rewind this channel an hour or so, so that I can attend the FESCo meeting? 11:25 < ke4qqq> regardless of what the decision is it needs to be something project wide 11:25 < quaid> stickster: ah, that's the place, thanks 11:26 < stickster> look for this thread on fedora-advisory-board, yup. 11:26 < quaid> ok, shall we move on? 11:26 < stickster> +1 11:26 < laubersm> +1 11:26 * quaid saw 5 min vaporize off topic while we are short of time today so ... 11:26 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: Lessons learned from Fedora 10 cycle 11:27 < quaid> I'm looking for knurd's blog post ... so he doesn't have to say the same stuff here :) 11:27 < quaid> http://thorstenl.blogspot.com/2008/12/read-same-paragraphs-every-half-year.html 11:28 < quaid> so there are some points there and some I contend 11:28 -!- fozzmoo [n=fozz at 209.41.95.5] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:29 < knurd> quaid, I just watched myself on the second read and wrote things down ;-) 11:29 < fozzmoo> Here I am. The not-quite-ever-contributing contributor. Hoping to make more of a difference this time around. 11:29 < stickster> I think the "condensed version" has some merit 11:29 < knurd> turned out to be a rant; sorry, that wasn#t the initial plan 11:29 < quaid> understood 11:29 < stickster> But like all other ideas, they need hands to make them happen 11:29 * ke4qqq likes the single page idea as well. 11:29 < quaid> oh, to be honest, I ignored the Big Idea part 11:30 < stickster> That should be easy to do 11:30 < quaid> in that, without hands, it's an idea 11:30 < quaid> while others are doable 11:30 < jjmcd> There is an issue with the level. Bits are boring to the experienced user, others are impenetrable to all but the expert 11:30 < quaid> yeah, full page, downloadable tarballs of html, etc. 11:30 < quaid> jjmcd: one attempt this time was to order that somewhat 11:30 < quaid> so there was general interest up front 11:30 < quaid> and it worked back to depth and detail and technical level 11:30 < stickster> We should turn these ideas into a SOP such as the one used by Infra for release 11:31 < stickster> And stick to that script for the release 11:31 < quaid> which ideas? 11:31 -!- tkjacobsen [n=tkjacobs at pppoe2-ves.broadcom.dk] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:31 < stickster> single-page HTML, any condensed version people show up to do, etc. 11:31 < stickster> That way they don't get lost in the shuffle 11:31 < stickster> We can debate them first, winners can go to the SOP. 11:32 < quaid> right 11:33 * quaid edits http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_release_standard_operating_procedures 11:33 < quaid> yeah, that is a lesson learned bit for me 11:33 < quaid> too much process stuck in the heads of too few. 11:33 < quaid> not by intention, of course :) 11:33 < stickster> quaid: We can collaborate on that page after this meeting if you've time 11:33 * quaid thinks . o O {This ain't the kind of job security I need} 11:34 < quaid> sure 11:35 * stickster gets the feeling quaid is writing :-) 11:35 < quaid> yeah, but also ... leaving room 11:35 < jjmcd> I could have taken some load off Karsten and Paul near the end if I understood the process better and I'm sure others could too 11:36 < stickster> Right, we are artificially limiting our scalability 11:36 < quaid> exactly 11:36 < stickster> It's a priority for me and Karsten to knock that barrier down. 11:36 < quaid> training during quiet times 11:36 < quaid> word! 11:36 < quaid> or, you know, die scaling it 11:37 -!- J5 [n=quintice at c-76-24-17-105.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:37 < ke4qqq> are we going to be imparting any of that at fudcon?? 11:37 -!- llaumgui_ [n=llaumgui at cro34-2-82-226-153-125.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:37 < ke4qqq> or is that too short a timeframe 11:37 < quaid> yes, no 11:38 < quaid> Update helping-hand docs quaid, stickster 03 Dec 17 Dec Review, organize, rewrite, simplify, and categorize Docs team helper docs 11:38 * quaid pulling from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_admin_tasks_for_experienced_contributors#Task_table 11:40 < stickster> Hm, we'll need to update these dates 11:41 -!- hno [n=hno at pdpc/supporter/active/hno] has left #fedora-meeting [] 11:41 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk 11:41 < stickster> *chirp chirp 11:42 < stickster> I can try to cut some time on a weeknight or three next week to help with this 11:42 < stickster> I'm finally coming down off the peak media activity for F10 11:43 * jjmcd thinks stickster likes being a celebrity 11:44 < stickster> It pays better than being a rock star so far 11:44 < jjmcd> ;-) 11:44 < stickster> But I was never that big a rock star :-D 11:45 < stickster> Did quaid leave us? 11:45 -!- jtibu [n=jtibu at uniaraxa.edu.br] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:45 < quaid> srry 11:45 < quaid> wrong channel? 11:46 < stickster> We can use classroom sessions for Docs work, if appropriate 11:46 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRC/Classroom 11:47 < quaid> stickster started it by asking about stuff in the other channel 11:47 -!- rdieter is now known as rdieter_away 11:47 < quaid> :) 11:47 < stickster> I thought I was being a good boy by not going OT here! :-D 11:47 < quaid> no, I thought that was on topic 11:47 < stickster> Anyhoo... 11:48 < quaid> it's a task in the process of us updating those docs, or smtgh 11:48 < stickster> OK, just for sake of meeting thoroughness -- I talked about doing some virtual hackfesting over Christmas. 11:48 < quaid> ok, what else did we learn this release 11:48 < stickster> more on my topic later in #fedora-docs. 11:48 < quaid> yeah, I'll add a task 11:49 < stickster> We still need a more rigorous schedule for release notes updates via web and RPM 11:49 < quaid> updates after the release, right? 11:49 < stickster> right 11:49 < stickster> We don't need to make them for six months, but we should have one or two updates in the first 30-60 days. 11:50 < stickster> Since anaconda no longer barfs when you install updates interleaved with the original release, people will see these on their systems more immediately./ 11:50 < quaid> ok 11:51 < quaid> let's see ... anything else come to mind today? 11:51 < quaid> I think I'll have more details pour out of me writing an SOP for each document 11:52 < quaid> s/pour/bleed/ 11:52 < jjmcd> I've mentioned the difficulty for new beat writers to see what they need to do, but I don't think that is news 11:52 * stickster wants to seriously think about sweeping all our old DocsProject stuff into Archive somewhere, and making that the impetus to build leaner, meaner, better pages for new contributors. 11:53 < quaid> stickster: I think the page renaming accomplishes that somewhat 11:53 -!- J5 [n=quintice at c-76-24-17-105.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:53 * jjmcd is still from Missouri on page renaming 11:53 < quaid> just that we could use that as a place to send 80% to Archive 11:53 < quaid> s/place/method/ 11:54 < stickster> quaid: I'm missing what you're saying. 11:54 < stickster> Probably the decongestants. 11:54 < quaid> stickster: seems like more work to discard and start over, but I could be wrong 11:54 < quaid> stickster: but I see lots of cruft in doing the page renaming 11:54 < quaid> that I've been pointing to Archive: 11:54 < stickster> A LOT of cruft. 11:55 < quaid> yes, under Docs/ as well (sep. topic) 11:55 < stickster> Many of those pages predate our new wiki, the new FAS, etc.... 11:55 < quaid> yeah, so, I guess, step one in discarding is to finish the page renaming document 11:55 < ke4qqq> it almost would be a good idea to have a page owner 11:55 < quaid> and be the guinea pig first run of the process from the wiki team 11:55 < ke4qqq> who is responsible for keeping a page up to date 11:56 < quaid> ooh [Category:Quaid stewards this page]] 11:56 < quaid> easy way to steward and not lose track 11:56 < quaid> ke4qqq: sure then 11:56 < quaid> we can add that in the renaming; there is a column for new categories 11:57 < ke4qqq> and maybe a Category:unowned please adopt me soon 11:57 < quaid> jjmcd: which way is renaming losing you? 11:57 -!- danielsmw_ [n=danielsm at cu-nat-2.clemson.edu] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:57 * Sparks likes the "unowned" cat 11:57 < jjmcd> I'm not convinved that trying to make search work is worth loosing navigtation that does work 11:58 < jjmcd> But I'm waiting to see 11:58 < stickster> We have a {{needs love}} already 11:58 < stickster> Which is not the same as owned, but works fine for unowned IMHO 11:58 < quaid> jjmcd: the wikibot should fix links 11:58 -!- danielsmw_ [n=danielsm at cu-nat-2.clemson.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 11:58 < quaid> jjmcd: and setup page forwards 11:58 < stickster> Yes, it does. 11:59 < jjmcd> You can sort of find stuff in a hierarchy, tho. With search you gotta know what to look for 12:00 < quaid> jjmcd: only if you know the hierarchy 12:00 < quaid> and only really if the hierarchy is totally standard 12:00 -!- danielsmw_ [n=danielsm at cu-nat-2.clemson.edu] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:00 < jjmcd> Certainly it is far from perfect 12:00 < quaid> so e.g. ProjectName/Join worked pretty well, but falls apart after that 12:01 < quaid> also, categorization is *key* 12:01 -!- danielsmw_ [n=danielsm at cu-nat-2.clemson.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 12:01 < quaid> each page must be in a category, and we find stuff by cat 12:01 < jjmcd> If we're liberal with categories that could help 12:01 < jjmcd> Only one bug reported against relnotes? I better get posting. 12:02 < quaid> jjmcd: another reason, look what happens in a category when the pages are named hierarchically 12:02 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation 12:02 < stickster> Yup, hierarchy is ugly, because it encourages cliques 12:02 < stickster> "You must know our standard!" 12:02 < quaid> you have to visually drop /Docs/DocumentName for each page 12:02 < quaid> jjmcd: yeah, post bugs; we want to do an update soon 12:03 < quaid> ok, we are over the line 12:03 < quaid> timewise 12:03 < stickster> heh, almost jinx 12:03 * fugolini want to adivice FAmSCo members that FAmSCo meeting is moved in #fedora-ambassadors 12:03 < jjmcd> Yeah, my Palm keeps telling to get moving 12:03 < quaid> fugolini: we were going to move over ... 12:04 < fugolini> ah, ok, absoultely no problems, take your time 12:04 < fugolini> it's not sure we will have a meeting, since i will not do the roll call 12:04 < fugolini> call roll, I don't know which is the right form 12:04 < quaid> well, I think we hit the long tail of the discussion 12:04 < quaid> you call the roll to get the roll call 12:05 -!- acaleechurn [i=acaleech at 41.211.93.25] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 12:05 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Dec 3 23:27:27 2008 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (=?windows-1252?Q?R=FCdiger_Landmann?=) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:27:27 +1000 Subject: Self-Introduction: =?windows-1252?q?R=FCdiger_Landmann?= Message-ID: <493715DF.8040909@redhat.com> Hi all, By way of introduction.... What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? I'm currently employed as a content author by Red Hat. Prior to this, I was running my own computer support and repair business and developing documentation for clients was a regular part of the work. Most of this was in the form of "how-to"s to enable domestic and small business users to carry out various tasks. In my spare time, I'm a Wikipediholic with around 45,000 edits to my name. What level and type of computer skills do you have? I have extensive hardware troubleshooting skills and more experience than I care to think about in troubleshooting and repairing broken Windows installations :) I'm a relative newcomer to Linux ? I'd dabbled a bit over the years but only started using it regularly about 18 months ago, and pretty much exclusively around 12 months ago. The move was prompted by the deteriorating performance of Windows XP on my main business/personal computer and that spending my work time troubleshooting other people's Windows disasters left me with little enthusiasm for troubleshooting my own after hours! * What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. I was a teacher in a previous career, and have skills and experience in explaining concepts and procedures to others. * What makes you an excellent match for the project? I'm enthusiastic (even zealous!) about Linux on the desktop and have the writing and teaching skills to communicate that to others, and I'm looking forward to contributing here. :) * GPG KEYID and fingerprint [rlandmann at schwalbe ~]$ gpg --fingerprint CCBD85A8 pub 1024D/CCBD85A8 2008-12-03 eKy fingerprint = B9AA 4775 B046 5845 559F F5B2 174C EF76 CCBD 85A8 uid R\xfc\x64iger Landmann sub 1024g/F17C9A84 2008-12-03 From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Dec 4 01:00:27 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:00:27 -0500 Subject: Holiday Virtual Hackfest Message-ID: <49372BAB.4090000@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Earlier this afternoon a discussion was had at #fedora-docs about putting together a "Virtual Hackfest". As Stickster put it "We get together on IRC and work through teaching/learning, cleaning up our Project wiki pages and whatever else comes to mind". A lot of things actually come to mind. This could be an excellent opportunity to get the wiki in better shape (after all the recent change requests), to learn about Publican and Emacs, and to get work done. I think we are talking about the week after Christmas (Dec 28th through Jan 6). So, who's interested? I can start a wiki page for people to sign up for days/times to teach something or for someone to host a clean up. Thanks, Eric Christensen E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org GPG Key: D74908ED -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkk3K6kACgkQL5V8yddJCO1QhQCePDCDK90mkFG61UwEAl6gKKBJ IUEAn1Ueunjp/9B51goG2UitIUJo2TZY =/W8s -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 4 03:48:21 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 19:48:21 -0800 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-12-03 Summary Message-ID: <20081204034821.GE11572@calliope.phig.org> Attending --------- David Nalley (ke4qqq) Paul W. Frields (stickster) John McDonaugh (jjmcd) Susan Lauber (laubersm) Karsten Wade (quaid) Doran L. Barton (fozzmoo) Cameo ----- Brian Pepple (bpepple) David Woodhouse (dwmw2_yoyo) Thorsten Leemhuis (knurd) Francesco Ugolini (fugolini) * Continued confusion over timing -- do we switch with DST or not? Discussion carried to fedora-advisory-board to set a project wide standard. * Discussed knurd's post on the release notes. Some ideas we can do fairly easily (single HTML page), others require effort where resources are few: http://thorstenl.blogspot.com/2008/12/read-same-paragraphs-every-half-year.html * Formed a page to track which standard operating procedures (SOP) we need for the future, which include items culled from knurd's blog post: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_release_standard_operating_procedures * Lessons learned: - Too much process in the heads of too few -- fix how-to-help docs. - More rigorous schedule for release notes updates via web and RPM - Need to improve docs on how to manage a beat ACTION: quaid and stickster working on Docs team content improvements by mid-December; page renaming is a dependency. * Virtual classroom and hackfest on tools, docs, wiki gardening over the Holidaze break -- use http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRC/Classroom, Gobby, and VoIP. ACTION: Sparks to organize via list * Training on Docs tools and processes at FUDCon. * Page renaming, include page owner via category: [[:Category:Username is responsible for this page]] -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From farrellj at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 04:13:52 2008 From: farrellj at gmail.com (Jason Farrell) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 23:13:52 -0500 Subject: Fedora HW requirements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Adam Pribyl wrote: > I am just bit surprised that Fedora hardware requirements remain same thru > release notes from Fedora Core 2 (almost 5 years) ut to Fedora 10. > Another bit of data: 512MB is not enough ram to install x86_64 with *all* optional packages (including languages) selected on the media. 768MB+ is enough. -- Jason -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From draciron at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 04:46:43 2008 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 22:46:43 -0600 Subject: Fedora HW requirements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: It's changed. I tried to install FC 7 or 8 on a machine running FC6 once and found I could not do it. It is an issue since many folks like to use the same distro on all machines and keep older machines around as print servers, bastion hosts, data servers and such. I've got a couple ancient machines I'm rehabbing that I'll have to use a non-Fedora distro on because there's no way to lighten the kernel without a good bit of hand pruning to get it to run on the 256 megs of ram those two machines have. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 4:13 PM, Adam Pribyl wrote: > I am just bit surprised that Fedora hardware requirements remain same thru > release notes from Fedora Core 2 (almost 5 years) ut to Fedora 10. > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/en_US/What_is_New_for_Installation_and_Live_Images.html#x86_specifics_for_Fedora > > I think we should consider to review this, as this is really getting > outdated. I know that Fedora can run on P200MHz with 64MB RAM, but it's not > usefull for work, and I would really not consider something like PII400MHz > with 256MB of RAM as recommended hardware. I personaly start to feel > slowness on PIII800MHz with 512MB of RAM with default Gnome, KDE4 is not > possible use on this HW due to unresponsive GUI. I know this is much about > the feeling, but recommended I would consider (looking into smolt results) > something around 2GHz CPU and 1GB of RAM. For 64bit I think there should be > mentioned that you need to have a CPU with either AMD64 or EM64T technology, > the RAM and gigahertz may remain the same.. > > Thanks for attention > > Adam Pribyl > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 4 05:06:27 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 21:06:27 -0800 Subject: moving content off of the draft wiki In-Reply-To: <20081121185158.GC7140@calliope.phig.org> References: <95f1114b0811062002n20810872m2dd9af4454f7bbfd@mail.gmail.com> <20081107053755.GB13307@localhost.localdomain> <4913E919.1080903@redhat.com> <20081111054932.GF18920@calliope.phig.org> <20081121185158.GC7140@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20081204050627.GF11572@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:51:58AM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 09:49:33PM -0800, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Fri, Nov 07, 2008 at 05:07:05PM +1000, Christopher Curran wrote: > > > > > > The real question is there anything to be gained by the present system > > > over having all our documentation available from the > > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ link. I can't see any real reasons. Have a > > > look at the ubuntu docs page (https://help.ubuntu.com/community/) That's a > > > pretty comprehensive set of links. We have most of those topics covered in > > > our wiki but they aren't linked from our docs page. > > > > If you or anyone else creates a replacement for the docs.fp.org page > > that links to all that content, I'll put it up straight away. Here's > > a good place to start drawing from: > > Have you made any progress on your idea? > > I'm going to do some simple updates to the front page, such as > including the SELinux User Guide and deprecating some content. If you > have any other ideas, now is the time to enact them. > > Looking to stage changes to the site by Sunday 23 Nov 2359 UTC. I'm still interested in doing these changes. If anyone wants to put together a plain text or simple HTML page that has all the documents linked, etc., I can probably work with that. Bonus points for grabbing the source of the actual page via anonymous cvs and turning in a patch. Or just grab the index.php file itself and work with that. :) export CVS_RSH=ssh export CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/fedora/web cvs -z3 login # press Enter for the password cvs -z3 co web # sorry, it's 357 MiB http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/drop/docs-index.php - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cmpahar at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 05:30:47 2008 From: cmpahar at gmail.com (Christos Bacharakis) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:30:47 +0200 Subject: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <49372BAB.4090000@christensenplace.us> References: <49372BAB.4090000@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: On Thu, Dec 4, 2008 at 3:00 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Earlier this afternoon a discussion was had at #fedora-docs about > putting together a "Virtual Hackfest". As Stickster put it "We get > together on IRC and work through teaching/learning, cleaning up our > Project wiki pages and whatever else comes to mind". A lot of things > actually come to mind. This could be an excellent opportunity to get > the wiki in better shape (after all the recent change requests), to > learn about Publican and Emacs, and to get work done. > > I think we are talking about the week after Christmas (Dec 28th through > Jan 6). > > So, who's interested? I can start a wiki page for people to sign up for > days/times to teach something or for someone to host a clean up. > > Thanks, > Eric Christensen > E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org > GPG Key: D74908ED > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAkk3K6kACgkQL5V8yddJCO1QhQCePDCDK90mkFG61UwEAl6gKKBJ > IUEAn1Ueunjp/9B51goG2UitIUJo2TZY > =/W8s > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Great idea Eric. I am positive! -- Christos Bacharakis cmpahar at fedoraproject.org http://cmpahar.wordpress.com GPG Key: CCFA0AEB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 4 07:17:00 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 23:17:00 -0800 Subject: self introduction In-Reply-To: <000801c94e50$004ff4c0$00efde40$@com> References: <000801c94e50$004ff4c0$00efde40$@com> Message-ID: <20081204071700.GG11572@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Nov 24, 2008 at 11:16:25AM -0500, Shajia Khan wrote: > Hello Everyone, > > > > My name is Shajia Khan . I am a student of Technical Communication, Seneca > College, Toronto. From the January 2009 till April 2009 I will have my co-op > semester and I am planning to work with Fedora project in the area of > documentation writing and editing to gain my co-op experience. Sorry it took so long to reply, as you may know, we hold Thanksgiving in the US at a very odd time, so some of us got distracted last week and are still recovering. :) [snip loads of good qualifications ...] I also am a lit geek and product of writing, journalism, and the like. Very glad to have you here. You might not be surprised to learn that technical projects always have an abundance of technical experts and a dearth of clear communicators. (Although, to be fair, open source has an unusually high percentage of folks who are clear communicators; it seems to come with the territory -- always a few with liberal arts experience.[1]) > I will be able to work full time for Fedora, so I am looking for lots and > lots of works Then I hope we can respond fast enough. :) What is happening right now, everyone with useful knowledge trapped in the brain is working quickly and diligently through the month of December to greatly improve the Docs Project process content. How and where to get involved should become much clearer. It will help pages such as these make better sense: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_tasks#Content_tasks https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_tasks_for_students Those do a need an update since the Fedora 10 release. Highlights: * Most of our longer guides need lead writers -- people committed to working on them and seeing them through to published. * Following the release-related content (Release Notes, Installation Guide), we have an opportunity to focus on: - Fedora User Guide - end-user help document needing update to Fedora 9 and Fedora 10 - Fedora Packaging Guidelines - reorg and rewrite - Fedora Deployment Guide - big - Fedora Security Guide - in progress - Fedora Common Services Infrastructure (CSI) Guide - in progress That list is ordered by in increasing difficulty of technical knowledge useful or required. Anyone new(er) to Linux/UNIX is probably best served starting at the top and working downward. The exception is in the area of wordsmithing -- we can all always use a good editor, and share that workload with each other. - Karsten [1] Great article on the reason technical teams always have a "Russian Lit Major" (person with liberal arts education v. computer science or math) http://www.randsinrepose.com/archives/2006/09/06/russian_history.html -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 4 07:28:07 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 23:28:07 -0800 Subject: Fedora HW requirements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081204072807.GH11572@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 10:46:43PM -0600, Dan Smith wrote: > It's changed. I tried to install FC 7 or 8 on a machine running FC6 > once and found I could not do it. It is an issue since many folks like > to use the same distro on all machines and keep older machines around > as print servers, bastion hosts, data servers and such. I've got a > couple ancient machines I'm rehabbing that I'll have to use a > non-Fedora distro on because there's no way to lighten the kernel > without a good bit of hand pruning to get it to run on the 256 megs of > ram those two machines have. This is one of the sources of the problem we have. The release notes do reflect the as-provided GA release, and wouldn't cover e.g. a spin for lightweight machines. But we cannot stop those people from reading _these_ notes, and what would they say with their Fedora XFCE spin designed to run on older hardware, and find >1 GiB CPU and RAM requirements? Here are some points to consider: * How do we define a minimum set of hardware that is realistic? * Who is doing that testing already and can tell us? * Or is no one? It's very telling that no one has bothered to update this content in a long time. Fedora Docs relies upon the developer experts to tell us those numbers. David Woodhouse had helped keep the PowerPC side up to date for a long time, for example. The most I'd feel comfortable doing is adding an admonition. Note Hardware specifications are bare minimum and may not work with standard Fedora It is possible to install Fedora in a very small footprint on slower hardware with less memory. However, standard Fedora desktop and DVD installations are likely to require faster hardware with more memory. As a good rule, double or triple the bare minimum requirements on this page for a Fedora installation that uses a graphical environment or is otherwise not a custom Fedora Spin or Remix designed to run on older hardware. Something like that. :) Whatever we do, let's make the change on the Beats page so we remember for next time. If we get something good enough, we can consider updating the current notes. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 4 07:30:41 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 23:30:41 -0800 Subject: link cvsdocs group broken In-Reply-To: <20081203030950.GA9603@gmail.com> References: <20081203030950.GA9603@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081204073041.GI11572@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 09:09:50PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote: > On Tue, Dec 02, 2008 at 11:45:55AM -0400, HVerduguez at grupobisa.com wrote: > > This is my first observation, ?what should i do? > > > 1. Find the link to the cvsdocs group in FAS The big kink being ... the group has been renamed to 'docs'. :) I'll hit that page and see what else needs a quick update, in the meantime. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 4 07:37:28 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 23:37:28 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=FCdiger?= Landmann In-Reply-To: <493715DF.8040909@redhat.com> References: <493715DF.8040909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20081204073728.GJ11572@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 09:27:27AM +1000, R?diger Landmann wrote: > Hi all, > > By way of introduction.... > > What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? > I'm currently employed as a content author by Red Hat. Prior to this, I > was running my own computer support and repair business and developing > documentation for clients was a regular part of the work. Most of this > was in the form of "how-to"s to enable domestic and small business users > to carry out various tasks. Welcome, most welcome. > In my spare time, I'm a Wikipediholic with around 45,000 edits to my name. Allow me to snip all your other qualifications and interests to hone in on this particular item. You are by now aware that we run a MediaWiki for Fedora. The wiki gardening effort is a very important service we are providing under the umbrella of the Docs Project. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wiki_gardening Our major problem is CamelCase and cruft from our old wiki is getting in the way of being a useful wiki. Also, a serious lack of categorization and orphaned pages. If you are interested in being not only the newbie *and* a subject matter expert at the same time ;-), we could really use your help as a wiki gardener. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 4 07:41:19 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 23:41:19 -0800 Subject: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <49372BAB.4090000@christensenplace.us> References: <49372BAB.4090000@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <20081204074119.GK11572@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 08:00:27PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > > So, who's interested? I can start a wiki page for people to sign up for > days/times to teach something or for someone to host a clean up. Very interested and able to teach or hack on any part of anything. Here is where I can probably be most useful: * How to be a lead writer for a Fedora document. * Emacs and DocBook XML are heaven sent - how to get the most out of your editing tool. * How to be an effective beat writer. * Documentation strategy and tactics in Fedora. Stuff like that. :) I think this is going to be a great chance to do a live test of the quality of whatever improvements we make in the next twenty days to our own processes and docs. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sulyokpeti at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 08:09:11 2008 From: sulyokpeti at gmail.com (Sulyok Peti) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 09:09:11 +0100 Subject: Fedora HW requirements In-Reply-To: <20081204072807.GH11572@calliope.phig.org> References: <20081204072807.GH11572@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1228378151.3249.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> I would suggest to list typical uses like running GNOME+Evolution +Epiphany or httpd+spamassassin+sendmail+clamav or VegaStrike giving recommended parameters for each case. It depends mostly on the applications and their configuration (like how many processes/threads they use) how much memory they require. 2008. 12. 3, szerda keltez?ssel 23.28-kor Karsten Wade ezt ?rta: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 10:46:43PM -0600, Dan Smith wrote: > > It's changed. I tried to install FC 7 or 8 on a machine running FC6 > > once and found I could not do it. It is an issue since many folks like > > to use the same distro on all machines and keep older machines around > > as print servers, bastion hosts, data servers and such. I've got a > > couple ancient machines I'm rehabbing that I'll have to use a > > non-Fedora distro on because there's no way to lighten the kernel > > without a good bit of hand pruning to get it to run on the 256 megs of > > ram those two machines have. > > This is one of the sources of the problem we have. The release notes > do reflect the as-provided GA release, and wouldn't cover e.g. a spin > for lightweight machines. But we cannot stop those people from > reading _these_ notes, and what would they say with their Fedora XFCE > spin designed to run on older hardware, and find >1 GiB CPU and RAM > requirements? > > Here are some points to consider: > > * How do we define a minimum set of hardware that is realistic? > > * Who is doing that testing already and can tell us? > > * Or is no one? It's very telling that no one has bothered to update > this content in a long time. Fedora Docs relies upon the developer > experts to tell us those numbers. David Woodhouse had helped keep > the PowerPC side up to date for a long time, for example. > > The most I'd feel comfortable doing is adding an admonition. > > Note > > Hardware specifications are bare minimum and may not work with > standard Fedora > > It is possible to install Fedora in a very small footprint on slower > hardware with less memory. However, standard Fedora desktop and DVD > installations are likely to require faster hardware with more > memory. > > As a good rule, double or triple the bare minimum requirements on > this page for a Fedora installation that uses a graphical > environment or is otherwise not a custom Fedora Spin or Remix > designed to run on older hardware. > > Something like that. :) Whatever we do, let's make the change on the > Beats page so we remember for next time. If we get something good > enough, we can consider updating the current notes. > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From stickster at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 12:17:29 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:17:29 -0500 Subject: Fedora HW requirements In-Reply-To: <1228378151.3249.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20081204072807.GH11572@calliope.phig.org> <1228378151.3249.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081204121729.GA25851@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 09:09:11AM +0100, Sulyok Peti wrote: > I would suggest to list typical uses like running GNOME+Evolution > +Epiphany or httpd+spamassassin+sendmail+clamav or VegaStrike giving > recommended parameters for each case. It depends mostly on the > applications and their configuration (like how many processes/threads > they use) how much memory they require. I think listing individual use cases is the wrong approach. It invariably leads to people wondering why their pet case was left off the list, and relies too much on subjective measures to decide which cases are worth including. General guidance suffices. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 12:23:18 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 07:23:18 -0500 Subject: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <20081204074119.GK11572@calliope.phig.org> References: <49372BAB.4090000@christensenplace.us> <20081204074119.GK11572@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20081204122318.GC25851@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 11:41:19PM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, Dec 03, 2008 at 08:00:27PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > > > > So, who's interested? I can start a wiki page for people to sign up for > > days/times to teach something or for someone to host a clean up. > > Very interested and able to teach or hack on any part of anything. > > Here is where I can probably be most useful: > > * How to be a lead writer for a Fedora document. > > * Emacs and DocBook XML are heaven sent - how to get the most out of > your editing tool. > > * How to be an effective beat writer. > > * Documentation strategy and tactics in Fedora. > > Stuff like that. :) > > I think this is going to be a great chance to do a live test of the > quality of whatever improvements we make in the next twenty days to > our own processes and docs. This last point is especially important to me. When I brought up virtual hackfesting I did really want to go past the "classroom" concept and actually spend a dedicated day or two actually dividing up all the tasks that are piling up for Docs. * Wiki gardening * Process pages overhaul (toss, strip, refinish) * Check/fix Docs entries in release schedule -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From gayleard at eircom.net Thu Dec 4 13:21:07 2008 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:21:07 +0000 Subject: Fedora HW requirements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200812041321.07854.gayleard@eircom.net> On Tuesday 25 November 2008 22:13:52 Adam Pribyl wrote: > I know this is much > about the feeling, but recommended I would consider (looking into smolt > results) something around 2GHz CPU and 1GB of RAM. To my mind, you are confusing two entirely separate parameters. The CPU speed is really irrelevant to this discussion. Obviously a machine with lower CPU speed will run more slowly, but anyone with such a machine will know that already, and does not really need advice on the subject. A slow machine is perfectly adequate for many purposes, eg as a printer or even file server. The amount of RAM, on the other hand, is relevant, because swapping is an order of magnitude slower. From pribyl at lowlevel.cz Thu Dec 4 14:56:14 2008 From: pribyl at lowlevel.cz (Adam Pribyl) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 15:56:14 +0100 (CET) Subject: Fedora HW requirements In-Reply-To: <200812041321.07854.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200812041321.07854.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Dec 2008, Timothy Murphy wrote: > On Tuesday 25 November 2008 22:13:52 Adam Pribyl wrote: > >> I know this is much >> about the feeling, but recommended I would consider (looking into smolt >> results) something around 2GHz CPU and 1GB of RAM. > > To my mind, you are confusing two entirely separate parameters. > I don't think so. If you check the specs page it is divided into to areas Text-mode and Graphical. I think this divison is perfectly OK, and I was mainly pointing at recommended stuff. The recommendation for graphical install as PII400 with 256MB it's really not something I would recommend to anybody for Fedora GUI usage. I am perfectly fine with the text-mode minimums correspondig to server usege, where we can get to something as weak as "you need i686" or higher procesor. I think, what Karten wrote is good. The answer to his questions are however not very satisfactory as IMHO there is nobody testing the minimum for anaconda install (which is same for all the spins) or livecd install and there is nowhere said the anaconda upgrade should end up within 5 hours for system to be considered as "usable". (This is by the way the upgrade time for PIII800 512MB with 1071 rpms. Do you consider this acceptable?) Therefore I would stick to text-mode as a minimum where you are able to install text-mode based system (more or less the anaconda requirement), graphical as recommended something where Fedora default GUI should be usable at (e.g. means OOo is able to open within 2 minutes without using the swap :). Adam Pribyl From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 16:05:48 2008 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 11:05:48 -0500 Subject: Fedora HW requirements In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <23b1fe6e0812040805x5a417ac4tad1cccf597720cb5@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 5:13 PM, Adam Pribyl wrote: > I am just bit surprised that Fedora hardware requirements remain same thru > release notes from Fedora Core 2 (almost 5 years) ut to Fedora 10. > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/en_US/What_is_New_for_Installation_and_Live_Images.html#x86_specifics_for_Fedora > > I think we should consider to review this, as this is really getting > outdated. I know that Fedora can run on P200MHz with 64MB RAM, but it's not > usefull for work, and I would really not consider something like PII400MHz > with 256MB of RAM as recommended hardware. I personaly start to feel > slowness on PIII800MHz with 512MB of RAM with default Gnome, KDE4 is not > possible use on this HW due to unresponsive GUI. I know this is much about > the feeling, but recommended I would consider (looking into smolt results) > something around 2GHz CPU and 1GB of RAM. For 64bit I think there should be > mentioned that you need to have a CPU with either AMD64 or EM64T technology, > the RAM and gigahertz may remain the same.. > > Thanks for attention > > Adam Pribyl > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Being the one responsible for the beat, I found that tracking down the numbers was more difficult than I would have thought. Testing being done in virtual machines and actual/recommended requirement testing numbers not being tested among other reasons. I was never able to get anyone to nail down on specific numbers on the x86 stuff though the dev folks were quite helpful on the ppc arch. Ideally some updated numbers can be retrieved for F11. -Jason From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 16:15:46 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 21:45:46 +0530 Subject: Fedora HW requirements Message-ID: <78323d480812040815n44a393a4sb4d256415fa2eec8@mail.gmail.com> Adam Pribyl wrote: > usefull for work, and I would really not consider something like PII400MHz > with 256MB of RAM as recommended hardware. I personaly start to feel > slowness on PIII800MHz with 512MB of RAM with default Gnome, KDE4 is not > possible use on this HW due to unresponsive GUI. I know this is much about > the feeling, but recommended I would consider (looking into smolt results) > something around 2GHz CPU and 1GB of RAM. For 64bit I think there should be I think P3 733 MHZ with 512 MB of RAM (or even 384MB) would be ok if you use a reasonable graphics card with some dedicated memory. It can make a steep difference Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc From draciron at gmail.com Thu Dec 4 19:15:54 2008 From: draciron at gmail.com (Dan Smith) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 13:15:54 -0600 Subject: Fedora HW requirements In-Reply-To: References: <200812041321.07854.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: > I don't think so. If you check the specs page it is divided into to areas > Text-mode and Graphical. I think this divison is perfectly OK, and I was > mainly pointing at recommended stuff. The recommendation for graphical > install as PII400 with 256MB it's really not something I would recommend to > anybody for Fedora GUI usage. I am perfectly fine with the text-mode > minimums correspondig to server usege, where we can get to something as weak > as "you need i686" or higher procesor. Actually the installer will fail saying not enough RAM. In my particular case I planned to run the machines headless and probably would not even run X. I never even got the option to install. Actually I got good GUI performance out of such a beast using FC5 for a time. Was a few years back but that machine as long as I didn't over tax it or try to run lots of servers on it was perfectly fine for web browsing, email, even games. My ex-gf used it as her personal machine for a couple years till the CPU failed. To address Karsten's many good points. >* How do we define a minimum set of hardware that is realistic? That is a hard question. There are tons of P2s still out there and running. However what about a museum piece early Pentium or even something like a 486DX 2 66. I have many fond memories of a machine that ran that chip. I think I still have the chip around somewhere LOL. As a solution I propose a 10 year rule. Anything older than 10 years will require special after market parts to work. The BIOS won't address modern hardware and the likelyhood of a machine that age continueing to function at a uesful degree is minimal. So in 2009 we can set the mark at the common low end machine of 1999. Which would be about 64, maybe as few as 32 megs of ram, 2 gigs of drive space. The drivers for such a beast should already be written and I'll go out on a limb and believe that the kernel where it talks to drivers is not changed enough to need to rewrite ancient drivers. So would 32 megs be enough to do anything useful? You have to assume a firewall, kernel, network drivers and network software like SSH. Trying to run a web server or database on that would be pointless. This would be purely as a bastion host, DOS emulator machine, data server or other uses like that. That would be for the light weight spin. What I am having a hard time understanding is why it's not included with the normal distro. All the components are there right? The kernel is custom compiled anyway right? So it's just another option on the CDs/DVD right/? Instead of just failing to install wouldn't it be reasonable to add a few lines of code that asks you if you want the light weight install instead? >* Who is doing that testing already and can tell us? Good question. I have no answer on that. I'd be willing to help test out as long as my older machines stayed alive. They are usually thousands of hours above their MTF and I've found that they usually don't last all that long after I revamp them. Usually by scrapping multiple ancient machines and for a Franken machine that can handle min specs to run Fedora. For a time I upgraded machines every few years and thus had an extensive array of parts. I can scrounge around at garage sales and try to find working ancient machines but my spare parts list is fast dwindling. >* Or is no one? It's very telling that no one has bothered to update > this content in a long time. Fedora Docs relies upon the developer > experts to tell us those numbers. David Woodhouse had helped keep > the PowerPC side up to date for a long time, for example. I think that is the disconnect. The developers are usually running higher end machines. No such thing as enough computing power back when I was in the code mines. Far as I know Fedora is a testing distro in itself. Fedora users braving the new for RHEL users and for the Linux community in general when it comes to innovations put out by Red Hat. We get it first but we are also each and every one of us a tester by the use of Fedora. So it works on their machines, they move it to beta where it works on those with a thirst for cutting edge then it goes out. Release notes are written before widespread adoption and rarely adjusted from the feedback. Most folks who try it and get an error just either had more RAM or abandon the effort. I didn't report the error with the distro I tried. Didn't even read the release notes, just assumed that Linux of any flavor would scale down to an older machine like that. Since I planned to run it headless I didn't think Ram would be a big issue. When it failed I just put it back on the shelf until I could mess with it later. Might even just run Knoppix on it since Knoppix ran fine. I rarely reboot so hand configuring the nic cards wouldn't be a big deal aside from hooking a monitor too it each time the power went out or I had to replace a failed component. I think I'm typical of Linux users who are spoiled by the scalibility of Linux. Over the years I've taken many obsolete machines and gotten 2 or 3 good years of use out of them as specialized servers of some sort. > It is possible to install Fedora in a very small footprint on slower >hardware with less memory. However, standard Fedora desktop and DVD >installations are likely to require faster hardware with more > memory. Again I ask why a separate distro if all the components are already there? From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu Dec 4 22:15:48 2008 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=FCdiger_Landmann?=) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 08:15:48 +1000 Subject: Wiki gardening In-Reply-To: <20081204073728.GJ11572@calliope.phig.org> References: <493715DF.8040909@redhat.com> <20081204073728.GJ11572@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <49385694.2070002@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > > The wiki gardening effort is a very important > service we are providing under the umbrella of the Docs Project. > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wiki_gardening > > Our major problem is CamelCase and cruft from our old wiki is getting > in the way of being a useful wiki. Also, a serious lack of > categorization and orphaned pages. If you are interested in being not > only the newbie *and* a subject matter expert at the same time ;-), we > could really use your help as a wiki gardener. > > Can you point me to some specific examples of the problems you're having? It's definitely something I can help out with. I tried to RTFM but the "Page renaming project" and "Wiki garden tasks" pages appear not to exist yet, and neither does the mailing list... From gayleard at eircom.net Thu Dec 4 22:39:47 2008 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 22:39:47 +0000 Subject: Fedora HW requirements In-Reply-To: References: <200812041321.07854.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <200812042239.47785.gayleard@eircom.net> On Thursday 04 December 2008 14:56:14 Adam Pribyl wrote: > >> I know this is much > >> about the feeling, but recommended I would consider (looking into smolt > >> results) something around 2GHz CPU and 1GB of RAM. > > To my mind, you are confusing two entirely separate parameters. > I don't think so. If you check the specs page it is divided into to areas > Text-mode and Graphical. I think this divison is perfectly OK, and I was > mainly pointing at recommended stuff. The recommendation for graphical > install as PII400 with 256MB it's really not something I would recommend > to anybody for Fedora GUI usage. You don't really seem to have taken in my point, I doubt if it is possible to install Fedora-10 on a machine with 256MB, but it is perfectly possible to install F-10 on a PII400 with 1GB RAM, and the machine will be usable in text and graphics mode. Obviously it will be slow, but someone with this machine must know that it is slow. The question is, whether it works or not. In my view, it is ridiculous to say you need a 2GHz machine to run F-10, and suggests to me that you are slightly out of touch with the real world. I'm using a Thinkpad T43 at this moment, which smolt says is 1.73GHz, and which is more than adequate for everything I do - mainly surfing the web and sending email. I also use a T23 which runs at about 1GHz and I don't really notice any difference in speed between them. From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Dec 4 23:35:50 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 04 Dec 2008 18:35:50 -0500 Subject: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <20081204122318.GC25851@localhost.localdomain> References: <49372BAB.4090000@christensenplace.us> <20081204074119.GK11572@calliope.phig.org> <20081204122318.GC25851@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49386956.2070502@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 True. Of course if people don't know how to use Docbook XML and emacs properly/efficiently then we still have a problem with producing documentation outside of the wiki. But I agree, we need to do work. Paul, when does RH have off? Eric Paul W. Frields wrote: > When I brought up > virtual hackfesting I did really want to go past the "classroom" > concept and actually spend a dedicated day or two actually dividing up > all the tasks that are piling up for Docs. > > * Wiki gardening > > * Process pages overhaul (toss, strip, refinish) > > * Check/fix Docs entries in release schedule > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkk4aVMACgkQL5V8yddJCO0dqgCePfoGNVQUrl/OBhoc3YXlapKz N6YAnAuimq18MJa0Z2juJK8VqtZXLboX =zU+j -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 12:24:12 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 07:24:12 -0500 Subject: Wiki gardening In-Reply-To: <49385694.2070002@redhat.com> References: <493715DF.8040909@redhat.com> <20081204073728.GJ11572@calliope.phig.org> <49385694.2070002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20081205122412.GB12530@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 08:15:48AM +1000, R?diger Landmann wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: >> >> The wiki gardening effort is a very important >> service we are providing under the umbrella of the Docs Project. >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wiki_gardening >> >> Our major problem is CamelCase and cruft from our old wiki is getting >> in the way of being a useful wiki. Also, a serious lack of >> categorization and orphaned pages. If you are interested in being not >> only the newbie *and* a subject matter expert at the same time ;-), we >> could really use your help as a wiki gardener. >> >> > Can you point me to some specific examples of the problems you're > having? It's definitely something I can help out with. > > I tried to RTFM but the "Page renaming project" and "Wiki garden tasks" > pages appear not to exist yet, and neither does the mailing list... Absolutely right about the "missing links" there. But the mailing list does exist: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-wiki -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 5 12:26:36 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 07:26:36 -0500 Subject: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <49386956.2070502@christensenplace.us> References: <49372BAB.4090000@christensenplace.us> <20081204074119.GK11572@calliope.phig.org> <20081204122318.GC25851@localhost.localdomain> <49386956.2070502@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <20081205122636.GC12530@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Dec 04, 2008 at 06:35:50PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > When I brought up > > virtual hackfesting I did really want to go past the "classroom" > > concept and actually spend a dedicated day or two actually dividing up > > all the tasks that are piling up for Docs. > > > > * Wiki gardening > > > > * Process pages overhaul (toss, strip, refinish) > > > > * Check/fix Docs entries in release schedule > > > True. Of course if people don't know how to use Docbook XML and emacs > properly/efficiently then we still have a problem with producing > documentation outside of the wiki. But I agree, we need to do work. > > Paul, when does RH have off? Well, Christmas Eve and Christmas Day are holidays, but I think no one expects to do anything those days. ;-) The following week, from Dec. 29 - Jan. 2, is when the company is closed. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Fri Dec 5 13:17:21 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2008 05:17:21 -0800 Subject: wiki Releases/10 In-Reply-To: <1227667343.28887.32.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> References: <1227667343.28887.32.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <493929E1.4020805@redhat.com> Dale Bewley wrote: > I hope I didn't step on some S.O.P., but I noticed /Releases/10 did not > exist, so I added it and revised /Releases. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10 > There is some weirdness on this page with the way the feature information gets duplicated. I removed it. On second thought it might be best to just make this whole page a redirect to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/10/Schedule because that's what ends up happening anyway. John From kwade at redhat.com Fri Dec 5 16:23:28 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 08:23:28 -0800 Subject: Wiki gardening In-Reply-To: <49385694.2070002@redhat.com> References: <493715DF.8040909@redhat.com> <20081204073728.GJ11572@calliope.phig.org> <49385694.2070002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20081205162328.GA11572@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 08:15:48AM +1000, R?diger Landmann wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wiki_gardening > Can you point me to some specific examples of the problems you're > having? It's definitely something I can help out with. Well, as you saw, we could use a bit more organizing help around the wiki gardening effort itself. Any help you have to help organize the Wiki_gardening page so it makes sense to people such as yourself, looking to be useful across the wiki. > I tried to RTFM but the "Page renaming project" and "Wiki garden tasks" > pages appear not to exist yet, and neither does the mailing list... Sorry, wrong mailing list address; it's been fixed: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/fedora-wiki We are having a combination of the usual you might expect and the effects of a migration earlier in 2008 from MoinMoin, which uses CamelCase page naming. * Massive page naming effort underway via fedora-wiki@ list; to be handled with a wikibot that renames and relinks pages. Pages are by artificial hierarchy rather than natural language naming. * Pages that need attention, and putting more pages in this category: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Pages_that_need_love * Getting pages to match the editing and structure guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Editing https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_structure - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Dec 6 02:01:46 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 18:01:46 -0800 Subject: Wiki gardening In-Reply-To: <20081205122412.GB12530@localhost.localdomain> References: <493715DF.8040909@redhat.com> <20081204073728.GJ11572@calliope.phig.org> <49385694.2070002@redhat.com> <20081205122412.GB12530@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081206020146.GA13128@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 07:24:12AM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, Dec 05, 2008 at 08:15:48AM +1000, R?diger Landmann wrote: > > Karsten Wade wrote: > >> > >> The wiki gardening effort is a very important > >> service we are providing under the umbrella of the Docs Project. > >> > >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wiki_gardening > >> > >> Our major problem is CamelCase and cruft from our old wiki is getting > >> in the way of being a useful wiki. Also, a serious lack of > >> categorization and orphaned pages. If you are interested in being not > >> only the newbie *and* a subject matter expert at the same time ;-), we > >> could really use your help as a wiki gardener. > >> > >> > > Can you point me to some specific examples of the problems you're > > having? It's definitely something I can help out with. > > > > I tried to RTFM but the "Page renaming project" and "Wiki garden tasks" > > pages appear not to exist yet, and neither does the mailing list... > > Absolutely right about the "missing links" there. Here is another one, mislabeled, and now fixed on that page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wikibot_page_restructuring - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Sat Dec 6 16:56:43 2008 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Sat, 06 Dec 2008 08:56:43 -0800 Subject: broken link on docs page to f10 rel notes! Message-ID: <1228582603.5033.3.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> See * http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/ The links behind all the languages on this page insert a redundant f10 making the result 404 like this: * http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/f10/en_US/ From danielsmw at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 06:07:19 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 01:07:19 -0500 Subject: User Guide Message-ID: Hey everyone, I'm planning on taking on the User Guide. If anyone has any suggestions or issues, please let me know. As it stands, the User Guide pages on the wiki are kind of mixed up between F8, F9, and F10. Any help resolving this would be appreciated. - Matthew Daniels From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 7 08:14:49 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 00:14:49 -0800 Subject: User Guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081207081449.GC13128@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 01:07:19AM -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: > Hey everyone, > > I'm planning on taking on the User Guide. If anyone has any suggestions > or issues, please let me know. As it stands, the User Guide pages on the > wiki are kind of mixed up between F8, F9, and F10. Any help resolving > this would be appreciated. There are two different areas, but we can forget about one of them. = F9 content = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_tasks This is content that was copied from F8 (below) and has begun to update to F9. For example, Elizabeth Ann updated the Financial Software chapter to both F9 and a new format. This content is where we want to work. My recommendation has been, let's finish F9 then start work on F10 content. If we have more resources, we can work in parallel on both. = F8 content = https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide We have two choices here, since F8 is about to hit end of community support. Some months ago, we had pursued pushing the F8 content out to XML as a full book. One option is to shelf it -- move it all to Archive: and stop worrying about it. The second option is to publish it for F8 on the wiki in a way that is useful for F8 users. Between the two, the second is a pretty good one. With a little work, we get something useful that can sit as-is or be updated by those who care. While we move on to F9, F10, etc. What little work? Here's some fodder for an [[F8 User Guide tasks]] page: * Move all pages to new naming scheme: [[F8 User Guide-Chapter Name]] * Make sure all pages are in [[Category:Documentation]], [[Category:User Guide]], maybe [[Category:Fedora 8]]? * Link to it from docs.fp.org, other locations in the wiki, some other publicity * Do any further editing in place as an active document A third option is to move entirely to covering only Fedora 10, closing out the F8 content and updating the F9 to F10. We may need that option if we cannot get everything done with available resources. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ricky at fedoraproject.org Sun Dec 7 09:21:26 2008 From: ricky at fedoraproject.org (Ricky Zhou) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 04:21:26 -0500 Subject: broken link on docs page to f10 rel notes! In-Reply-To: <1228582603.5033.3.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> References: <1228582603.5033.3.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> Message-ID: <20081207092126.GF16577@sphe.res.cmu.edu> On 2008-12-06 08:56:43 AM, Dale Bewley wrote: > See > * http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/ > > The links behind all the languages on this page insert a redundant f10 > making the result 404 like this: > * http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/f10/en_US/ This should be fixed now, thanks for the report. Thanks, Ricky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 17:20:45 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 11:20:45 -0600 Subject: User Guide In-Reply-To: <20081207081449.GC13128@calliope.phig.org> References: <20081207081449.GC13128@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20081207172045.GA11782@gmail.com> On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 12:14:49AM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > = F9 content = > GAH! You used a level one header! :P -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sun Dec 7 23:16:42 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 04:46:42 +0530 Subject: User Guide Message-ID: <78323d480812071516v5ec01484m42b0ccc1bce1f786@mail.gmail.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > > A third option is to move entirely to covering only Fedora 10, closing > out the F8 content and updating the F9 to F10. We may need that > option if we cannot get everything done with available resources. I believe a topic based classification of the user guide can be more helpful. This way contributors can write all three releases in one place. User guides for specific releases can then be generated auto-magically from them. For example, Configuring Peripherals ---> How To Configure Mouses --->[[3 Versions] ]--->[[Kde/Gnome/Xfce]] Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc From david at gnsa.us Sun Dec 7 23:44:06 2008 From: david at gnsa.us (David Nalley) Date: Sun, 7 Dec 2008 18:44:06 -0500 Subject: User Guide In-Reply-To: <78323d480812071516v5ec01484m42b0ccc1bce1f786@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480812071516v5ec01484m42b0ccc1bce1f786@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Mani A wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: > >> >> A third option is to move entirely to covering only Fedora 10, closing >> out the F8 content and updating the F9 to F10. We may need that >> option if we cannot get everything done with available resources. > > I believe a topic based classification of the user guide can be more helpful. > This way contributors can write all three releases in one place. User > guides for specific releases can then be generated auto-magically from > them. > > For example, Configuring Peripherals ---> How To Configure Mouses > --->[[3 Versions] ]--->[[Kde/Gnome/Xfce]] > > Best > > A. Mani The problem arises when there are material differences. For instance there is documentation on Pup in F8. Which is different than packagekit in F9 and F10 If it were a straight copy job I suspect F9 would have already been published From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 8 14:55:59 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 06:55:59 -0800 Subject: User Guide In-Reply-To: References: <78323d480812071516v5ec01484m42b0ccc1bce1f786@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081208145559.GH13128@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, Dec 07, 2008 at 06:44:06PM -0500, David Nalley wrote: > On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 6:16 PM, Mani A wrote: > > Karsten Wade wrote: > > > >> > >> A third option is to move entirely to covering only Fedora 10, closing > >> out the F8 content and updating the F9 to F10. We may need that > >> option if we cannot get everything done with available resources. > > > > I believe a topic based classification of the user guide can be more helpful. > > This way contributors can write all three releases in one place. User > > guides for specific releases can then be generated auto-magically from > > them. > > > > For example, Configuring Peripherals ---> How To Configure Mouses > > --->[[3 Versions] ]--->[[Kde/Gnome/Xfce]] > > > > Best > > > > A. Mani > > > The problem arises when there are material differences. For instance > there is documentation on Pup in F8. Which is different than > packagekit in F9 and F10 > If it were a straight copy job I suspect F9 would have already been published The other challenge is the lack of automagic. This is one reason I am proposing we publish the F8 User Guide solely on the wiki. It is possible to do multiple versions within one XML document, where you note paragraphs with conditionals -- no tag == all get it; per-version tag == only that version gets that content. But that is a fair amount of work to build and maintain. For RHEL releases? Worth it. For Fedora releases? Probably not. There is a way to blend content in the wiki, but it would be similar -- write it three times in one location for wherever there are differences, then use massive transduction. Based on what I've seen in MediaWiki so far, trying to maintain a document that is a maze of transduction is harder, more confusing, and raises significant barriers to new contributors. Where there is common content (introduction?), we could maintain that in one master/canonical location, then transduce that in to each guide. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 8 14:58:47 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 06:58:47 -0800 Subject: broken link on docs page to f10 rel notes! In-Reply-To: <1228582603.5033.3.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> References: <1228582603.5033.3.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> Message-ID: <20081208145847.GI13128@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 08:56:43AM -0800, Dale Bewley wrote: > See > * http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/ > > The links behind all the languages on this page insert a redundant f10 > making the result 404 like this: > * http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/f10/en_US/ Heh, this was a popular email this weekend -- saw it also on websites and devel lists. For those not tracking the CVS commits, I added English-version language names to the main release notes and the F10 release notes page. On the latter page, I did a copy-and-paste but left in the sub-directory (f10/) call, thereby breaking all the links. Ricky caught the fix yesterday. I've been trying to find a source for languages in their own characterset; Bill Nottingham suggested I can pull it from the gdm package, but I haven't found it so far -- I almost labeled each language with the word "Login". :) - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Dec 8 16:48:20 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 11:48:20 -0500 Subject: broken link on docs page to f10 rel notes! In-Reply-To: <20081208145847.GI13128@calliope.phig.org> References: <1228582603.5033.3.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> <20081208145847.GI13128@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20081208164820.GC4566@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 06:58:47AM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, Dec 06, 2008 at 08:56:43AM -0800, Dale Bewley wrote: > > See > > * http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/ > > > > The links behind all the languages on this page insert a redundant f10 > > making the result 404 like this: > > * http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/f10/en_US/ > > Heh, this was a popular email this weekend -- saw it also on websites > and devel lists. > > For those not tracking the CVS commits, I added English-version > language names to the main release notes and the F10 release notes > page. On the latter page, I did a copy-and-paste but left in the > sub-directory (f10/) call, thereby breaking all the links. Ricky > caught the fix yesterday. > > I've been trying to find a source for languages in their own > characterset; Bill Nottingham suggested I can pull it from the gdm > package, but I haven't found it so far -- I almost labeled each > language with the word "Login". :) A google search for "native names for languages" brought me some worthwhile results. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 8 17:55:07 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 09:55:07 -0800 Subject: broken link on docs page to f10 rel notes! In-Reply-To: <20081208164820.GC4566@localhost.localdomain> References: <1228582603.5033.3.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> <20081208145847.GI13128@calliope.phig.org> <20081208164820.GC4566@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081208175443.GO13128@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 11:48:20AM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > A google search for "native names for languages" brought me some > worthwhile results. And this is what it looks like: http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/release-notes-page-with-native-names.png http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/release-notes-f10-page-with-native-names.png I'm open to formatting suggestions from here. :) - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 8 19:24:12 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 11:24:12 -0800 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing In-Reply-To: <2238BD08DCE04B449E358D882174B750@Aidan> References: <1F74884E15E243A59106296689E6683D@Aidan> <20081127001959.GC9042@localhost.localdomain> <2238BD08DCE04B449E358D882174B750@Aidan> Message-ID: <20081208192412.GP13128@calliope.phig.org> Mcd -- are you by chance coming to FUDCon in January? Working out a new process and some tools to go with it for F11 beat writing would make a great hackfest. It's also a chance to teach the sub-projects how to support their beat(s). More below ... On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 07:56:45PM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2008 7:19 PM > Subject: Re: Some thoughts on beat writing > >> I think there is a better way -- feeding package information >> to beats is simply not a good one. We had to change a lot >> of the Amateur Radio beat for that very reason. Simply >> listing the results of 'yum info' or 'yum search', or producing >> a listing of changed version numbers, and calling that release >> notes devalues the process a bit. > > Oh absolutely. The yum info stuff merely gives the beat writer some view > into what's there. Once he recognizes the version change, the beat > writer would then go to the project website (also listed in the yum > info), review the upstream's release notes (where available), make a > judgement as to whether they really needed comment, and then devise the > release notes entry. > > I do think that the yum info is a good start for the "what's there" page > that the release notes might point to. I do think the beat writer > should, however, be encouraged to embellish the yum description. But at > least it is a start. A nice summary should go into the release notes > preceding the changes, but it should be very brief, perhaps one or two > sentences. So, yes, there is a novel idea here -- a permanent beat page on the wiki that has: * Commands to use to get more info about packages (yum info, rpm -q --changelog) * List of packages for that section * Programmatically generated changes between FN and FN-1 This is similar to the long requested, sometimes provided, and always dubious "list of packages changed for this release." When we do this, it is always a long, long list on a wiki page; it doesn't belong in the notes themselves; it is slightly useful but only so much so. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From notting at redhat.com Mon Dec 8 20:51:41 2008 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 15:51:41 -0500 Subject: broken link on docs page to f10 rel notes! In-Reply-To: <20081208175443.GO13128@calliope.phig.org> References: <1228582603.5033.3.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> <20081208145847.GI13128@calliope.phig.org> <20081208164820.GC4566@localhost.localdomain> <20081208175443.GO13128@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20081208205141.GA1566@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Karsten Wade (kwade at redhat.com) said: > http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/release-notes-page-with-native-names.png > http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/release-notes-f10-page-with-native-names.png > > I'm open to formatting suggestions from here. :) For the second, why is the table cell-wrapping some of the names? It appears that there should be plenty of space. Bill From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Dec 9 01:17:35 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:17:35 -0500 Subject: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <20081205122636.GC12530@localhost.localdomain> References: <49372BAB.4090000@christensenplace.us> <20081204074119.GK11572@calliope.phig.org> <20081204122318.GC25851@localhost.localdomain> <49386956.2070502@christensenplace.us> <20081205122636.GC12530@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <493DC72F.90901@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I have created a wiki page[1] for the Holiday Virtual Hackfest. Feel free to create your event here. Thanks, Eric Christensen E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org GPG Key: D74908ED 1. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkk9xxkACgkQL5V8yddJCO1eoQCeMsT8kFu/bOGcAMzH6csLaeBh zXAAn1GIUX2JE2ODF0yL0QwRa13HYwLW =S9VP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 9 02:37:38 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 8 Dec 2008 18:37:38 -0800 Subject: broken link on docs page to f10 rel notes! In-Reply-To: <20081208205141.GA1566@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> References: <1228582603.5033.3.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> <20081208145847.GI13128@calliope.phig.org> <20081208164820.GC4566@localhost.localdomain> <20081208175443.GO13128@calliope.phig.org> <20081208205141.GA1566@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20081209023701.GB9280@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Dec 08, 2008 at 03:51:41PM -0500, Bill Nottingham wrote: > Karsten Wade (kwade at redhat.com) said: > > http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/release-notes-page-with-native-names.png > > http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/release-notes-f10-page-with-native-names.png > > > > I'm open to formatting suggestions from here. :) > > For the second, why is the table cell-wrapping some of the names? > It appears that there should be plenty of space. Eh, it's hacky ... I fixed the width of the cells, I'll do something kinder, thx. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Dec 9 12:36:58 2008 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 07:36:58 -0500 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing References: <1F74884E15E243A59106296689E6683D@Aidan><20081127001959.GC9042@localhost.localdomain><2238BD08DCE04B449E358D882174B750@Aidan> <20081208192412.GP13128@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <3EE3281D862E441E9BF919EEFE7EB69A@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karsten Wade" To: Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:24 PM Subject: Re: Some thoughts on beat writing > Mcd -- are you by chance coming to FUDCon in January? > Working out a new process and some tools to go with it for > F11 beat writing would make a great hackfest. It's also a > chance to teach the sub-projects how to support their beat(s). For a minute there I was seriously considering it, even had the wife convinced, but I had the date wrong in my head. I need to be in Lansing on Saturday. There is a remote chance I can get that moved, but I think it may be too late. Pity, there's an awful lot going on there I would love to be a part of. I would certainly like to participate Friday and Sunday to the extent I can via email, phone, IRC, whatever. --McD From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Dec 9 12:45:37 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 09 Dec 2008 07:45:37 -0500 Subject: Talk Conference Room for DocsProject Message-ID: <493E6871.4030508@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 If anyone wants to use it, we have a conference room on the Talk[1] server. The conference room is 2008. Thought it could be useful during the Virtual Hackfest and anything else we want to use it for. [1] http://talk.fedoraproject.org Thanks, Eric Christensen E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org GPG Key: D74908ED -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkk+aG8ACgkQL5V8yddJCO0mCwCfX2arJkRSOcRvtnuu+ntV35A+ TBsAn3a8gwqSyE1h3kVO8tP83t4Ow6UH =7+jk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Tue Dec 9 12:55:19 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 07:55:19 -0500 Subject: Talk Conference Room for DocsProject In-Reply-To: <493E6871.4030508@christensenplace.us> References: <493E6871.4030508@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <20081209125519.GA4580@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 07:45:37AM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > If anyone wants to use it, we have a conference room on the Talk[1] > server. The conference room is 2008. Thought it could be useful during > the Virtual Hackfest and anything else we want to use it for. > > [1] http://talk.fedoraproject.org Thanks Eric, that will definitely come in handy. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Dec 9 13:13:02 2008 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 08:13:02 -0500 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing References: <1F74884E15E243A59106296689E6683D@Aidan><20081127001959.GC9042@localhost.localdomain><2238BD08DCE04B449E358D882174B750@Aidan> <20081208192412.GP13128@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <672EA70A73054D89AE4D2332CB6CF775@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karsten Wade" To: Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:24 PM Subject: Re: Some thoughts on beat writing kind of a separate subject so a separate reply ... > This is similar to the long requested, sometimes provided, > and always dubious "list of packages changed for this release." Yes, well, I've made a couple of runs at this. I have one hack that generates a MediaWiki import file containing the yum description and table of versions for a beat. It is kind of a trail of bread crumbs, though, and probably not all that useful to anyone but me. A slightly less hack-ey, but still somethng of a hack, I did more recently following a thread with Paul, maybe on IRC I can't recall. But I got to wondering whether I could do something that someone else might actually use. Still a bit of a hack but again, given a list of packages in the beat, compares two sqlite files. Thus, a beat writer could keep the primary.sqlite from F10, grab the primary.sqlite from rawhide, and see what has changed. I mentioned this during the last docs meeting, hoping to get some input from others but no joy. I think this, perhaps prettied up somewhat and with substantial guidance, actually gives the beat writer a shot. The writer is still faced with figuring out what is actualy in the beat, and this is harder than it sounds. An obvious place would be the PackageKit groups, but these are a lot less helpful than you would suspect. There is a lot of room for judgement in assigning a package to a group, and, IMO, many just plain errors. In some cases when you see a package in some odd group you can imagine how someone felt it belonged there. But even in those cases, you would be hard pressed to imagine groups that you should check. And with 11,000 packages, you just glaze over pawing trough package after package. --McD From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 9 19:47:06 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 11:47:06 -0800 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing In-Reply-To: <3EE3281D862E441E9BF919EEFE7EB69A@Aidan> References: <20081208192412.GP13128@calliope.phig.org> <3EE3281D862E441E9BF919EEFE7EB69A@Aidan> Message-ID: <20081209194706.GK9280@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 07:36:58AM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > > Pity, there's an awful lot going on there I would love to be a part of. > I would certainly like to participate Friday and Sunday to the extent I > can via email, phone, IRC, whatever. We're talking about audio for the BarCamp sessions right now, so it got me thinking. I'll bring a mic and we can use Docs conference room on talk.fedoraproject.org. Between that and IRC, we can include you and others virtually to work on this stuff. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 9 20:18:13 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 12:18:13 -0800 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing In-Reply-To: <672EA70A73054D89AE4D2332CB6CF775@Aidan> References: <20081208192412.GP13128@calliope.phig.org> <672EA70A73054D89AE4D2332CB6CF775@Aidan> Message-ID: <20081209201813.GL9280@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 08:13:02AM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karsten Wade" > To: > Sent: Monday, December 08, 2008 2:24 PM > Subject: Re: Some thoughts on beat writing > > > kind of a separate subject so a separate reply ... I just added you to 'gitfedora-doc-utils', which is this: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-doc-utils/ That is where we can put any scripts and such that help us get the Docs work done. >> This is similar to the long requested, sometimes provided, >> and always dubious "list of packages changed for this release." > > Yes, well, I've made a couple of runs at this. I have one hack that > generates a MediaWiki import file containing the yum description and > table of versions for a beat. It is kind of a trail of bread crumbs, > though, and probably not all that useful to anyone but me. Not sure, sounds potentially useful. If we can do it without much hassle, let's do it -- _into_a_special_namespace_. We don't want all this to pollute the wiki search. Alternately, we can just publish to a scratch location on docs.fp.org. > A slightly less hack-ey, but still somethng of a hack, I did more > recently following a thread with Paul, maybe on IRC I can't recall. But > I got to wondering whether I could do something that someone else might > actually use. Still a bit of a hack but again, given a list of packages > in the beat, compares two sqlite files. Thus, a beat writer could keep > the primary.sqlite from F10, grab the primary.sqlite from rawhide, and > see what has changed. I mentioned this during the last docs meeting, > hoping to get some input from others but no joy. I think this, perhaps > prettied up somewhat and with substantial guidance, actually gives the > beat writer a shot. Does this get more information than 'repodiff'? Sorry if you haven't seen this page, more leaking carpenter's roof: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/PackageChanges > The writer is still faced with figuring out what is actualy in the beat, > and this is harder than it sounds. An obvious place would be the > PackageKit groups, but these are a lot less helpful than you would > suspect. There is a lot of room for judgement in assigning a package to > a group, and, IMO, many just plain errors. In some cases when you see a > package in some odd group you can imagine how someone felt it belonged > there. But even in those cases, you would be hard pressed to imagine > groups that you should check. And with 11,000 packages, you just glaze > over pawing trough package after package. There are a few ways we can define the beats. The way I thought of it originally was an association with a sub-project or sub-component of the distro. This way the beat writer is embedded within the team. This puts the onus on the team to keep their writer up to date. What that does for us here is to distribute the question of what packages should be watched for a beat, versus trying to figure it out for ourselves for N beats. The problem is getting the various sub-groups to accept and follow this arrangement. So far, it's been a pretty light adoption, but we haven't really pushed it that far. One thing we can do is guarantee zero coverage without an embedded writer; we've done that ad hoc in the past, but then someone who is not the beat writer comes in and helps fill a bit of information. For example, didn't you do that for Databases this time? So, we keep not fully providing the consequences for sub-groups that don't support the beat writing process. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Dec 10 01:01:10 2008 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 9 Dec 2008 20:01:10 -0500 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing References: <20081208192412.GP13128@calliope.phig.org><672EA70A73054D89AE4D2332CB6CF775@Aidan> <20081209201813.GL9280@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karsten Wade" To: Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 3:18 PM Subject: Re: Some thoughts on beat writing > Not sure, sounds potentially useful. If we can do it without much > hassle, let's do it -- _into_a_special_namespace_. Certainly willing to share, but it is kind of a PITA. What I do is grab the repo data into a MySQL database so I can collect 'N' releases. It's organized differently than the sqlite db, but no reason the sqlite couldn't be used. It's just that I can make manual changes easier with phpMyAdmin than grokking SQL. Then in a separate step I generate a WikiMedia XML import. Actually, I could see this is something that might be useful for some other audiences, but I found it helpful to watch what packages were undergoing revision, and sometimes it is interesting to dig into those changes and find out what were the issues. > Does this get more information than 'repodiff'? Actually, less than repodiff, and that's the point. It reads a list of packages in your beat and only reports differences in those packages. It isn't all that difficult to pick up changes, the challenge is picking up changes in a handful of specific packages when there are thousands to wade through. And as we get close to release, many, many packages are changed. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 13:30:52 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 08:30:52 -0500 Subject: Installation/Setup for magazine Message-ID: <20081210133052.GD3443@localhost.localdomain> Over the summer, one of our Marketing contributors created an article for a Linux magazine featuring Fedora 9. The magazine is looking to feature Fedora 10 and wants to have a similar article by around Christmas (25 December) for later publication. Is there someone in the marketing team interested in producing such an article? I can provide details, a contact point, and probably even a pointer to the original article to help provide scope. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 10 15:48:59 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 07:48:59 -0800 Subject: meeting 10 Dec 1900 UTC Message-ID: <20081210154859.GX9280@calliope.phig.org> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting * Status of helper-docs ** Possible some work on that and page moving * Plans for Fedora 11 cycle ** FUDCon targets (CMS, Wiki) * Go over task table * All other business Yes, we are sticking with the time in UTC. If there is still a conflict with other people who have chosen to move their meeting for DST, then we'll meet in #fedora-docs. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Wed Dec 10 17:57:50 2008 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 09:57:50 -0800 (PST) Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing In-Reply-To: <1239117938.826311228930831213.JavaMail.root@zebra.lib.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <310978144.827161228931870939.JavaMail.root@zebra.lib.ucdavis.edu> ----- "Karsten Wade" wrote: > So, yes, there is a novel idea here -- a permanent beat page on the > wiki that has: > > * Commands to use to get more info about packages (yum info, rpm -q > --changelog) > > * List of packages for that section > > * Programmatically generated changes between FN and FN-1 I hadn't pondered digging into the sqlite files. I found koji to be helpful for finding the version delta of packages across (non-EOL) distributions. My messy hack is here http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DaleBewley#Virtualization_Release_Notes * pkgs.in contains CSV package name, relnotes URL * dist.in contains f9, f10, etc #!/bin/bash grep -v '^#' pkgs.in | while read line; do grep -v '^#' dist.in | while read dist; do pkg=`echo $line | awk '{print $1}'` notes=`echo $line | awk '{print $2}'` ver=`koji latest-pkg "$dist" "$pkg" | tail -1 | awk '{print $1}'` echo "$pkg, $dist, $ver, $notes" done done I then read the upstream relnotes for each release since the last Fedora distribution to produce a summary of changes for the Fedora relnotes. John mentioned a page to augment a beat for tracking changes. That may be an appropriate use of the discussion tab on an article. As a new beat writer, I used my personal page for that. I think a page of tips like this will be very helpful. From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Dec 10 18:11:54 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:11:54 -0500 Subject: Linux Security Guide Message-ID: <1228932714.3292.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> Just FYI, the Security Guide[1] has been converted to xml with the next step of being integrated into the Linux Security Guide that is being developed by Mike Hideo and others. A list[2] has been established for this project. I'll be working on developing and converting the draft portions of the Security Guide[3] into xml so they can be incorporated down the road. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security_Guide [2] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/security-guide-list [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Dec 10 18:23:55 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:23:55 -0500 Subject: Linux Security Guide In-Reply-To: <1228932714.3292.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1228932714.3292.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081210182355.GB4364@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 01:11:54PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > Just FYI, the Security Guide[1] has been converted to xml with the next > step of being integrated into the Linux Security Guide that is being > developed by Mike Hideo and others. A list[2] has been established for > this project. > > I'll be working on developing and converting the draft portions of the > Security Guide[3] into xml so they can be incorporated down the road. > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security_Guide > [2] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/security-guide-list > [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide I'm curious, why have a separate list for the development of a particular document? Wouldn't this be an attractor project if it was seen and contributed to by the hundreds of people already on this list? After all, people in this team have been asking to participate with Red Hat's Docs team on these sorts of guides for a long time -- long enough for some of them to have left by now, and long enough for others to have arrived looking to help. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 10 19:49:31 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 11:49:31 -0800 Subject: CMS progress Message-ID: <20081210194931.GA25202@calliope.phig.org> If you are interested in helping Docs find a CMS solution to replace http://docs.fedoraproject.org ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites We're trying to list all possible solutions by 19 Dec., then vet that to a short, short list by 21 Dec. From there, we are run some test instances over the following few weeks. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 10 20:00:18 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:00:18 -0800 Subject: Writing teams Message-ID: <20081210200018.GB25202@calliope.phig.org> To make our lives sane, this project needs to work only on content that people are actually committed to doing. In other words, there are no release notes unless people want to write them. First step is getting a lead writer for each document. If no one is willing to lead, then we need to drop that guide from our production list for Fedora 11. Here is the list: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_content_tasks_for_experienced_contributors Once there is a lead, that person needs to work with all of us on recruiting. That person should *not* expect to do all the work, and in fact doesn't even need to be a good writer or editor; this is more project management work. If a team wants to act as a collective without a formal lead, that team needs to put together a plan that will work, then bring it here for discussion/approval/etc. A single person can lead more than one guide, just be aware of the workload. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Dec 10 20:04:19 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 15:04:19 -0500 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest Message-ID: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday Virtual Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone to lead them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to take one of them on and schedule it. Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed please put them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 10 20:39:23 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 12:39:23 -0800 Subject: Writing teams In-Reply-To: <20081210200018.GB25202@calliope.phig.org> References: <20081210200018.GB25202@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20081210203922.GA4265@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 12:00:18PM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > To make our lives sane, this project needs to work only on content > that people are actually committed to doing. In other words, there > are no release notes unless people want to write them. > > First step is getting a lead writer for each document. If no one is > willing to lead, then we need to drop that guide from our production > list for Fedora 11. > > Here is the list: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_content_tasks_for_experienced_contributors BTW, I removed myself from the Lead Writer roles, to make it clear they are wide open. I temporarily filled all voids for F10 release, but that is through. If you want to add yourself to a team, tell us here, and add yourself to this page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_content_tasks_for_new_contributors That is under new contributors just to make it clear it is a good task for newbies; you don't have to be new to be on such a team. :) -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 10 21:11:05 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 13:11:05 -0800 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday Virtual > Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone to lead > them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to take one > of them on and schedule it. > > Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed please put > them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest ;-) -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From lucas at cefetce.br Wed Dec 10 13:47:07 2008 From: lucas at cefetce.br (Lucas - Linux Sys. Admin (CEFETCE/UAB)) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 10:47:07 -0300 Subject: Installation/Setup for magazine In-Reply-To: <20081210133052.GD3443@localhost.localdomain> References: <20081210133052.GD3443@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: I can do that, :) I'll have this big holiday and stuff.. :) please send me more info, btw I already have some content, that I use on courses for our employees.. 2008/12/10 Paul W. Frields > Over the summer, one of our Marketing contributors created an article > for a Linux magazine featuring Fedora 9. The magazine is looking to > feature Fedora 10 and wants to have a similar article by around > Christmas (25 December) for later publication. > > Is there someone in the marketing team interested in producing such an > article? I can provide details, a contact point, and probably even a > pointer to the original article to help provide scope. > > -- > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > -- -- Atenciosamente, Lucas do Amaral CEFET-CE - UAB-CE. Linux System Administrator Trainee Fedora Ambassador & Fedora Translator -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 10 22:41:06 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 14:41:06 -0800 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing In-Reply-To: <310978144.827161228931870939.JavaMail.root@zebra.lib.ucdavis.edu> References: <1239117938.826311228930831213.JavaMail.root@zebra.lib.ucdavis.edu> <310978144.827161228931870939.JavaMail.root@zebra.lib.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <20081210224106.GB17466@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 09:57:50AM -0800, Dale Bewley wrote: > > I think a page of tips like this will be very helpful. Your wiki page stub awaits: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_release_notes_beat_writer :) - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Wed Dec 10 22:45:20 2008 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 00:45:20 +0200 Subject: CMS progress In-Reply-To: <20081210194931.GA25202@calliope.phig.org> References: <20081210194931.GA25202@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1228949120.3572.68.camel@beta> On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 11:49 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > If you are interested in helping Docs find a CMS solution to replace > http://docs.fedoraproject.org ... > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites > > We're trying to list all possible solutions by 19 Dec., then vet that > to a short, short list by 21 Dec. From there, we are run some test > instances over the following few weeks. > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list The two that I care the most about - Drupal & Joomla! - are already there. I cannot see many more out there that can come close to meeting the needs. I think Drupal has the flexibility & track record we really need, but I don't have much experience with either. Just that sites with Drupal seems to always look nicer, and I'm planning to roll it out myself for some projects of my own sooner or later. From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Dec 11 00:00:09 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:00:09 -0500 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday Virtual >> Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone to lead >> them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to take one >> of them on and schedule it. >> >> Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed please put >> them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest > > ;-) > Yeah, what he said. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklAWAQACgkQL5V8yddJCO3fHQCfcDu7T/ly92qKwhYS5iGzyBRe u34AmQGIvbGPhRXXbpHfL0/mBXRezltb =j4u/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Dec 11 00:29:40 2008 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 19:29:40 -0500 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing References: <1239117938.826311228930831213.JavaMail.root@zebra.lib.ucdavis.edu><310978144.827161228931870939.JavaMail.root@zebra.lib.ucdavis.edu> <20081210224106.GB17466@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karsten Wade" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:41 PM Subject: Re: Some thoughts on beat writing > Your wiki page stub awaits: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_release_notes_beat_writer Interestingly enough, I actually had thought of something like that, and got a start: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/How_to_be_a_Beat_Writer Still needs soem work tho! --McD From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 11 00:38:09 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 16:38:09 -0800 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-12-10 IRC log Message-ID: <20081211003809.GC17466@calliope.phig.org> In HTML (via the new irclog2html package with the '-s mediawiki' target option): https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20081210 Raw text log attached. -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- 11:04 < quaid> 11:04 < quaid> prepping for a 'bot :) 11:04 * quaid notes Sparks is present 11:04 < quaid> [[USer:Kwade|quaid]] esta aqui 11:04 < stickster> present! 11:05 < jjmcd> et moi, aussi 11:05 -!- danielsmw [n=danielsm at cu-nat-2.clemson.edu] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:05 -!- notting [n=notting at redhat/notting] has left #fedora-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] 11:05 < quaid> word to that 11:06 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_10_December_2008 11:07 * jsmith is here 11:07 < quaid> ok, then 11:08 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg - helper docs 11:08 < quaid> stickster: we have a Catch-22, don't we? 11:08 < quaid> are we going to try to put off some of this work for the virtual hackfest this month? 11:09 -!- loupgaroublond [n=loupgaro at 82-171-65-13.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:11 * danielsmw is here but listening in the background 11:11 < quaid> word 11:11 < quaid> I'm thinking ... 11:11 < quaid> we need to really figure that we'll do improvements to our actual self-help-ourselves docs 11:11 < quaid> during the group hackfest 11:12 < Sparks> yes 11:12 < quaid> a good first step is to get the page renaming done 11:12 * Sparks creates a topic portion of the hackfest page 11:12 < quaid> which I started on, and can take as a deliverable for next week. 11:12 < quaid> that will show the holes better, etc. 11:15 -!- ezq [n=ezq at host129.190-136-192.telecom.net.ar] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 11:16 < Sparks> Do we want to do any page migration to xml during the hackfest? 11:16 < quaid> hmm 11:16 < quaid> if there is an F9 User Guide, why not? 11:16 < Sparks> Maybe we can update it for F10 at the same time (or near the same time) 11:17 < quaid> yes, another good one 11:17 < danielsmw> chiming in 11:17 < danielsmw> as for the f9 user guide 11:17 < danielsmw> there really isn't that much progress on it 11:17 < danielsmw> and a few pages are already on f10 11:18 < danielsmw> so perhaps during the hackfest 11:18 < danielsmw> we can go ahead and do what sparks suggests 11:18 < danielsmw> update to f9, put that somewhere and start converting 11:18 < danielsmw> and then go ahead and update to f10 11:18 < quaid> ok 11:18 * Sparks writes idea to wiki 11:18 < quaid> danielsmw: while the topic is open, have you thought about the F8 push? 11:18 < danielsmw> the f8 push to xml? 11:19 * quaid is now off topic :) 11:19 < quaid> danielsmw: no, just to a specific wiki place 11:19 < danielsmw> quaid: i hadn't though of it, but that can be done. i saw that on the list. we'll just move it to a subdirector called F8-User-Guide or something 11:19 < danielsmw> quaid: i'm pretty busy this week, but I can do that first half of next week 11:20 < quaid> danielsmw: sure, that works; I can work with you on a good wiki name and such forth 11:21 < danielsmw> quaid: its settled then, see you next week. 11:22 < quaid> Sparks: what is the hackfest page url? 11:23 -!- Gaaruto [n=Gaaruto at fedora/Gaaruto] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:23 < quaid> anything more on this topic? 11:23 < Sparks> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest 11:23 < quaid> ACTION: quaid to work with everyone on page naming by 17 Dec 11:24 < quaid> ACTION: helping docs worked on during virt hackfest 11:25 < quaid> Sparks: I'm moving the 'deadline' on that to 23 Dec, so that is the day for us to have things all finalized before the following weekend comes 11:26 < Sparks> works for me 11:26 * quaid living in his Judeo-Christian country will also be distracted from 23 to 26ish 11:26 * Sparks considers renaming the page to something more... appropriate 11:26 < quaid> heh 11:26 < quaid> Docs_Project_holiday_virtual_hackfest? 11:27 < jjmcd> Something like Docs/Hackfest/Holiday/2008/Virtual ? 11:27 < Sparks> Yeah, what jjmcd said. 11:27 < Sparks> :) 11:27 * quaid kicks jjmcd under the table 11:27 < jjmcd> ow 11:27 < quaid> heh, oh dear 11:28 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg - F11 planning 11:28 < quaid> for example ... 11:28 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg - F11 planning :: CMS 11:28 < quaid> jsmith: so you are looking for a CMS that has XML on the backend with CMS wysiwyg editing? 11:30 < jsmith> quaid: Yes, in a nutshell 11:30 < quaid> I'm looking for collaborators 11:30 < quaid> to help find a solution 11:30 < quaid> so this is where we have some crossover, maybe ... 11:30 < jsmith> I'm happy to share what I've found. 11:31 < quaid> let 11:31 < quaid> let's gather stuff on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites 11:32 < jjmcd> Are the objectives documented somewhere 11:32 * quaid adding another section at the end 11:32 < quaid> jjmcd: I think that page does it 11:32 * quaid also updates schedule section 11:34 -!- laubersm [n=susan at fedora/laubersm] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:35 < quaid> laubersm: discussing # Tweak through F10 release 11:35 < quaid> # After F10, migrate www. to tweaked solution 11:35 < quaid> wooks 11:35 < quaid> woops, even! 11:35 < quaid> let's gather stuff on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites 11:35 * quaid now adding a fourth section for list of possible CMS solutions 11:36 < ke4qqq> are we going to adjust the schedule along with that? 11:36 < quaid> jsmith: as you see, we didn't really have Docbook as an high ideal, low expectations there basically 11:36 < quaid> jsmith: we tried to hack that in to Plone with zero real success 11:36 < jsmith> RIght 11:36 < quaid> ke4qqq: I did somewhat, reload the page 11:36 < quaid> and then tell me what you think about it :) 11:37 -!- openpercept [n=openperc at unaffiliated/openpercept] has quit ["Leaving."] 11:37 < ke4qqq> ok - that at least seems more within the realm of the possible. 11:38 < quaid> :D 11:38 < quaid> the thing is ... 11:38 < quaid> I'd LOVE to train people on using it on Sat. of the fudcon varcamp 11:38 < quaid> and it's a fair hackfest to do on Friday, when websites and infra are there to help us solve problems 11:38 < quaid> so we could go live with a working yet work to do instance that day 11:41 -!- pingou_ [n=Pingou at fedora/pingou] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:42 < quaid> all right, I guess more list discussion is in order :) 11:42 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: Task table https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_admin_tasks_for_experienced_contributors#Task_table 11:43 < quaid> it's updated to this meeting so far 11:43 < quaid> toolchain next steps is going to be part of the virt hackfest, I reckon 11:44 < quaid> how about publican migration? 11:44 < quaid> are we trying to load too much in to those days? 11:44 < quaid> by we, I mean me, of course :) 11:44 -!- MrTom [n=mrtom at fedora/MrTom] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:45 < ke4qqq> I don't know - whats the level of effort/time for publican migration 11:45 < Sparks> Well... The Security Guide (in some form) has been changed to XML. 11:46 < quaid> ke4qqq: ok, so let's talk about the Installation Guide as an example 11:46 < quaid> here is the rough overview: 11:46 < quaid> * XML files need to be renamed 11:46 < quaid> * Some sections need renaming 11:46 < quaid> * Small amount of XML fixes possible 11:46 < quaid> * Some new files need creating (small) 11:47 < quaid> that's probably it 11:47 < quaid> the release notes are already using the Properly_named.xml style 11:47 < quaid> so that one would be easier; I was Publican-proofing this time :) 11:47 < ke4qqq> Is there documentation on migrating - everything I have seen on publican is starting from scratch 11:47 < quaid> ke4qqq: exactly, there is not 11:47 < quaid> so we want to self-doc, too 11:47 < ke4qqq> that sounds like a half day worth of work easy 11:47 < quaid> yes, that's about my estimate 11:47 < ke4qqq> more if we have to document along the way 11:48 < quaid> we do have the option of pushing this closer to F11, or doing it as a hackfest onsite at FUDCon 11:49 < ke4qqq> I'd rather us take a simple doc and do it to write the documentation 11:49 < ke4qqq> and maybe do the rest as a hackfest or as we have time 11:49 < quaid> do we have a simple doc that would work with? 11:49 < stickster> Guys, I'm sorry I've been quiet meeting wise, I just got off a phone call 11:49 < quaid> np 11:50 < quaid> and now you have to jet! 11:50 < stickster> I know, it sucks :-( 11:50 < ke4qqq> I don't know - IG may be the simple doc 11:50 * stickster 's whole week has gone this way 11:50 < laubersm> ke4qqq: +1 on last - simple one and document now; rest later and expand documentation if needed 11:50 < quaid> welll, it helps Publican overall, since other people would want to migrate 11:50 < jsmith> stickster: Mine too! 11:50 < quaid> ok, let's set the virtual hackfest goal 11:50 < ke4qqq> yeah mine has been the same way stickster - something evil this week. 11:51 < quaid> to be to write a migration doc and *start* migrating $something 11:52 * Sparks moves that idea to the wiki 11:52 -!- Pikachu_2015 [n=Pikachu_ at 81-66-25-208.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:52 -!- Pikachu_2014 [n=Pikachu_ at 81-66-25-208.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 11:52 -!- Pikachu_2015 is now known as Pikachu_2014 11:53 < quaid> ok, next task table item 11:53 < quaid> is the team per document 11:53 < quaid> I'll write an email on that to the list right now, since the early deadline is approaching 11:53 -!- walters [n=walters at c-24-63-200-153.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:55 < ke4qqq> we have a struggle there that I don't know that we've even identified a lead for every document yet have we? 11:55 < quaid> yep 11:55 < quaid> that's part of it, the task 11:55 < quaid> is a bit unclear there 11:55 < quaid> it's lead *and* team, but lead is key IMO to keeping it alive 11:55 < quaid> if no one person is willing to try to get a team ... 11:55 < ke4qqq> I agree 11:56 < quaid> also, lead != all is good, since no one person should have to do it her/his self 11:56 < ke4qqq> right 11:57 < ke4qqq> and refresh my memory - was the thought that we'd drop a document if it had no lead? 11:57 < quaid> yeah 11:57 < quaid> since a team without a lead here is too problematic 11:57 < jjmcd> Where is the list of docs and current (if any) leads? 11:57 < quaid> if folks want to act as a collective and can put together a plan that will work, that's probably OK 11:57 * stickster drops off to pick up daughter 11:57 -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk 11:57 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_content_tasks_for_experienced_contributors 11:58 < ke4qqq> so you are still listed on a ton of documents quaid, which of those are you really the lead for? 11:59 < quaid> I'll remove myself 11:59 < quaid> none, really 11:59 -!- ixxs is now known as ixs 11:59 < quaid> that is ... I did that with the standard "guy in charge takes on all that no one else is doing" 11:59 < quaid> so I can do that later if we think it's worthy, but I'm not really supposed to be taking on *more* Docs work :) 12:00 < ke4qqq> thats what I thought - I think we need to strip your name from them - otherwise people will assume you have it covered :) 12:00 * quaid strips 12:01 -!- dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone 12:01 -!- Zool^ [n=kaland at 19.81-166-29.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 12:03 < Sparks> yikes 12:06 < quaid> sorry, crazy 12:06 < quaid> actually my mouse was working, but full desktop lock 12:06 < quaid> ok, time to close the meeting here 12:06 * quaid figures FAMSCo coming in? 12:07 < quaid> head back to #fedora-docs to finish up discussions 12:07 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 11 01:09:57 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:09:57 -0800 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-12-10 Summary Message-ID: <20081211010957.GD17466@calliope.phig.org> Attendees --------- Eric Christensen (Sparks) Paul W. Frields (stickster) John J. McDonuugh (jjmcd) Karsten Wade (quaid) Matthew Daniels (danielsmw) David Nalley (ke4qqq) Jared Smith (jsmith) Susan Lauber (laubersm) IRC Log ------- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20081210 Agenda ------ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_10_December_2008 Summary ------- * Moving full work on helper documentation for Docs contributors; work to occur during https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest * Page renaming for Docs pages underwork; help here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wikibot_page_restructuring * User Guide work: * danielsmw and quaid to work on F8 User Guide wiki-only publishing next week, as per previous list discussion * During virtual hackfest: * F9 content to XML * Convert F9 content to F10 on wiki * Collaboration for CMS via mailing list and here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites * Current task is to get a list of all viable CMS that provide the MUST and preferred SHOULD items * Goal to train $EVERYONE at Saturday FUDCon BarCamp session on how to publish via CMS * Updates to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_admin_tasks_for_experienced_contributors#Task_table * Toolchain conversions to take a virtual hackfest day * Publican migration how to written during virt.hackfest, using install-guide(?) as an example * ALL documents MUST have a Lead Writer, and SHOULD have a team * By 15 Dec. or they get on a short-list * Last pitch at FUDCon, whatever doesn't have resources is dropped for F11 * Lead Writers here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_content_tasks_for_experienced_contributors * Team lists here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_content_tasks_for_new_contributors * quaid removed himself from covering documents as a Lead Writer; was a temporary F10 leadership convenience but not a precedent -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 11 01:12:18 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 17:12:18 -0800 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing In-Reply-To: References: <20081210224106.GB17466@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20081211011218.GE17466@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 07:29:40PM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karsten Wade" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:41 PM > Subject: Re: Some thoughts on beat writing > > > >> Your wiki page stub awaits: >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_release_notes_beat_writer > > Interestingly enough, I actually had thought of something like that, and > got a start: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/How_to_be_a_Beat_Writer > Oh, I missed that. Feel free to start dropping content into the other page. BTW, I noted 'release_notes' because Fedora Weekly News also has beat writers. I figured we might want a master beat writer page that has general conventions that everyone can use, then specific pages per sub-proj ... but only if that is a warranted. :) - Karsten, namespacey -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Dec 11 01:26:22 2008 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 20:26:22 -0500 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing References: <20081210224106.GB17466@calliope.phig.org> <20081211011218.GE17466@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karsten Wade" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Some thoughts on beat writing >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/How_to_be_a_Beat_Writer >> > > Oh, I missed that. Feel free to start dropping content into the other > page. Well, as I understand it you wouldn't pick that up on a search > BTW, I noted 'release_notes' because Fedora Weekly News I picked up on that, too --McD From mhideo at redhat.com Thu Dec 11 01:35:49 2008 From: mhideo at redhat.com (Michael Hideo) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:35:49 +1000 Subject: Linux Security Guide In-Reply-To: <20081210182355.GB4364@localhost.localdomain> References: <1228932714.3292.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210182355.GB4364@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49406E75.1010901@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 01:11:54PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> Just FYI, the Security Guide[1] has been converted to xml with the next >> step of being integrated into the Linux Security Guide that is being >> developed by Mike Hideo and others. A list[2] has been established for >> this project. >> >> I'll be working on developing and converting the draft portions of the >> Security Guide[3] into xml so they can be incorporated down the road. >> >> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security_Guide >> [2] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/security-guide-list >> [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide > > I'm curious, why have a separate list for the development of a > particular document? Wouldn't this be an attractor project if it was > seen and contributed to by the hundreds of people already on this > list? After all, people in this team have been asking to participate > with Red Hat's Docs team on these sorts of guides for a long time -- > long enough for some of them to have left by now, and long enough for > others to have arrived looking to help. i'm going to 'cc the security-guide-list to the bz component. From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Thu Dec 11 04:59:25 2008 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 06:59:25 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction: Basil Mohamed Gohar Message-ID: <1228971565.3572.102.camel@beta> Greetings, Fedora Documentation list! My name is Basil Mohamed Gohar, and I'm keen to join the Fedora Documentation project per encouragement from Karsten Wade. What follows, hopefully, fulfills the requirements of the Self-Introduction for joining the group, but should also give you a bit of an idea of me. I am a graduate of The Ohio State University with a bachelors degree in Electrical & Computer Engineering (it's only one major despite covering two subjects), class of the Summer of 2004. I currently work as a web developer for a small consulting firm in Columbus, Ohio whose primary business relates to virtual schooling, including homeschooling & charter school programs. My personal experience with Fedora started with Fedora Core 5, when I installed it on my computer just to play & explore a GNU/Linux operating system. Though I'd been a support of free software since I understood what it was, I had not yet been ready to take the plunge & commit myself to it. That experience changed it for me, and by the time Fedora Core 6 was released, I had switched to using it as my main system. Prior to using Fedora, though, I had been using Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3 & 4 on two servers that I leased for hosting my own web sites since 2004 & 2005, respectively, so I grew familiar with a command-line *nix environment through managing those servers. I am what some would call a free software fundamentalist, because I believe free software is fundamentally better due to the principle that is free as in freedom. I have had some experience writing documentation for projects & programs before, but nothing as large-scale as Fedora. I am a native speaker of the English language, having been born & raised in the US my whole life. I tend to be picky about grammar where I notice a mistake, and I am pedantic when it comes to ensuring what has been stated is factually correct. I consider myself to be verbose, but clear, when I write, but that is a judgment best left for others. ;) I have done a little documentation work for the Fedora Unity project, but that stalled when I had to move on to other projects at that time. I have been using computers since I was very young, as there has always been a computer of some kind available in our homes. Being a developer, I suppose that I am an "expert" computer using on most platforms, with the exception of Mac OS, as I do not own any Apple hardware. As I mentioned earlier, I am a web developer by trade & hobby. I work primarily with PHP & MySQL. I would describe myself as a PHP guru, but I wouldn't disagree if others claimed I was. ;) I have been programming for over 6 years, having taught myself PHP after learning basic Perl to parse HTML tables to convert them to Microsoft Excel documents (yuck!). I was also encouraged by my desire to write my own website code for listing files for people to download. I feel I am an excellent match for the Fedora Documentation project because I believe that free software is fundamentally superior, I communicate well, and I want to contribute to something that will benefit people & make free software easier for people to use by having quality resources available to them. My GPG fingerprint follows: pub 1024D/25DB6E43 2008-12-11 Key fingerprint = 29B4 52ED 2335 1948 652A 22BB 873C DA6A 25DB 6E43 uid Basil Mohamed Gohar (Basil's GPG key) sub 2048g/7B467FE6 2008-12-11 I look forward to contributing more in the future, and I will follow-up with an idea I had which is what encouraged Karsten to prompt me to officially join the project in the first place. ________________________________________________________________________ Basil Mohamed Gohar abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org www.basilgohar.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 12:15:15 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:15:15 -0500 Subject: Linux Security Guide In-Reply-To: <49406E75.1010901@redhat.com> References: <1228932714.3292.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210182355.GB4364@localhost.localdomain> <49406E75.1010901@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20081211121312.GA10148@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 11:35:49AM +1000, Michael Hideo wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 01:11:54PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >>> Just FYI, the Security Guide[1] has been converted to xml with the next >>> step of being integrated into the Linux Security Guide that is being >>> developed by Mike Hideo and others. A list[2] has been established for >>> this project. >>> >>> I'll be working on developing and converting the draft portions of the >>> Security Guide[3] into xml so they can be incorporated down the road. >>> >>> [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security_Guide >>> [2] https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/security-guide-list >>> [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide >> >> I'm curious, why have a separate list for the development of a >> particular document? Wouldn't this be an attractor project if it was >> seen and contributed to by the hundreds of people already on this >> list? After all, people in this team have been asking to participate >> with Red Hat's Docs team on these sorts of guides for a long time -- >> long enough for some of them to have left by now, and long enough for >> others to have arrived looking to help. > > i'm going to 'cc the security-guide-list to the bz component. Does that mean your plan is to discuss and develop the guide on this list, and keep the bug content elsewhere as a courtesy? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 12:28:04 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:28:04 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Basil Mohamed Gohar In-Reply-To: <1228971565.3572.102.camel@beta> References: <1228971565.3572.102.camel@beta> Message-ID: <20081211122804.GC10148@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 06:59:25AM +0200, Basil Mohamed Gohar wrote: > Greetings, Fedora Documentation list! My name is Basil Mohamed Gohar, > and I'm keen to join the Fedora Documentation project per encouragement > from Karsten Wade. What follows, hopefully, fulfills the requirements > of the Self-Introduction for joining the group, but should also give you > a bit of an idea of me. Superb, Basil! It's great to have you aboard. Your introduction was written with clarity and spirit, both of which will serve you well here. Please come by IRC #fedora-docs and introduce yourself there whenever you get a chance, if you haven't already. (If you have, sorry I missed it.) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mhideo at redhat.com Thu Dec 11 12:39:58 2008 From: mhideo at redhat.com (Michael Hideo-Smith) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:39:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: Linux Security Guide In-Reply-To: <20081211121312.GA10148@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1587119764.679751228999198060.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> ----- "Paul W. Frields" wrote: > From: "Paul W. Frields" > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:15:15 PM GMT +10:00 Brisbane > Subject: Re: Linux Security Guide > > Does that mean your plan is to discuss and develop the guide on this > list, and keep the bug content elsewhere as a courtesy? > mate, a plan will probably be the first thing I throw out the window but i will endeavour to do my best service. - Mike From stickster at gmail.com Thu Dec 11 12:51:38 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 11 Dec 2008 07:51:38 -0500 Subject: Linux Security Guide In-Reply-To: <1587119764.679751228999198060.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <20081211121312.GA10148@localhost.localdomain> <1587119764.679751228999198060.JavaMail.root@zmail01.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20081211125138.GA12034@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Dec 11, 2008 at 07:39:58AM -0500, Michael Hideo-Smith wrote: > > ----- "Paul W. Frields" wrote: > > > From: "Paul W. Frields" > > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 10:15:15 PM GMT +10:00 Brisbane > > Subject: Re: Linux Security Guide > > > > Does that mean your plan is to discuss and develop the guide on this > > list, and keep the bug content elsewhere as a courtesy? > > > > mate, a plan will probably be the first thing I throw out the window > but i will endeavour to do my best service. - Mike Fair enough -- just know that there is a lot of value in the freed content for building a stronger Fedora Docs community. And now a moment of choir-preaching: Communicate your plans and progress here and help us leverage that into contributions that give you a higher ROI for the time and effort it took to free the content. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 17:50:22 2008 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 09:50:22 -0800 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization Message-ID: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> Howdy folks, I'm on the Fedora Packaging Committee and we are in desperate need of some docs help. We manage the Packaging Guidelines which help packagers and reviewers create quality packages for Fedora. Unfortunately, as time has progressed the Guidelines have grown larger and larger in an "organic" fashion. In order to keep the policies managable for people new to Fedora we need to organize them somehow. There's several threads in this: 1) We want something that helps the packager and reviewer find all the Guidelines that apply to the package that they are working on but not to the ones they are not. So we need some sort of navigation based on questions the packager and reviewer can answer about the packages: General Review Items What programming languages is this written in? Is this a library or an application? 2) We want to have a checklist of items to look at with more in-depth information about why a Guideline exists available to those who want to know more. 3) Some of our extra information is more HOWTO-oriented. For instance, the section on Package Naming talks about how to choose a name for a package and how to structure the version strings so that they are always upgradable. If we could get someone to help us work out this restructuring I'm here to work on these things from the FPC side. Feel free to contact me via this list, email, fedora-packaging-list, or on IRC: abadger1999 (#fedora-devel, #fedora-admin). -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Dec 12 20:11:38 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:11:38 -0500 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> Events are starting to pop up on the Holiday Virtual Hackfest page. Don't be shy! Stop by and sign up to lead or follow! Eric On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 19:00 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday Virtual > >> Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone to lead > >> them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to take one > >> of them on and schedule it. > >> > >> Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed please put > >> them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". > > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest > > > > ;-) > > > Yeah, what he said. > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAklAWAQACgkQL5V8yddJCO3fHQCfcDu7T/ly92qKwhYS5iGzyBRe > u34AmQGIvbGPhRXXbpHfL0/mBXRezltb > =j4u/ > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From harvey at eccnet.com Fri Dec 12 20:41:29 2008 From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 15:41:29 -0500 (EST) Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Hi Eric: I am not sure how this "Hackfest" works. I saw a Task "WIKI to XML" that I can either lead or do. Let me know how I can go about signing up. I am assuming the XML should be Docbook? Betty > Events are starting to pop up on the Holiday Virtual Hackfest page. > Don't be shy! Stop by and sign up to lead or follow! > > Eric > > > On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 19:00 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Karsten Wade wrote: >> > On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> >> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday >> Virtual >> >> Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone to >> lead >> >> them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to take >> one >> >> of them on and schedule it. >> >> >> >> Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed please >> put >> >> them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". >> > >> > [1] >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest >> > >> > ;-) >> > >> Yeah, what he said. >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> >> iEYEARECAAYFAklAWAQACgkQL5V8yddJCO3fHQCfcDu7T/ly92qKwhYS5iGzyBRe >> u34AmQGIvbGPhRXXbpHfL0/mBXRezltb >> =j4u/ >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ From stickster at gmail.com Fri Dec 12 22:22:09 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:22:09 -0500 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: <20081212222209.GF19799@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 03:41:29PM -0500, Betty Harvey wrote: > > I am not sure how this "Hackfest" works. I saw a Task "WIKI to XML" > that I can either lead or do. Let me know how I can go about > signing up. I am assuming the XML should be Docbook? Precisely, as far as I know. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Dec 12 23:27:39 2008 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:27:39 -0500 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain><20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org><49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us><1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain><3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <20081212222209.GF19799@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <772B003932624D0AB2719EB4C903320D@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:22 PM Subject: Re: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest > Precisely, as far as I know. If you don't know, who does? --McD From ianweller at gmail.com Sat Dec 13 05:15:20 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:15:20 -0600 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization In-Reply-To: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> References: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 09:50:22AM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > Howdy folks, > I moved this thread to fedora-wiki at lists.fedoraproject.org. It'd be preferred that all discussion stays there :) -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sun Dec 14 15:19:15 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:49:15 +0530 Subject: User Guide : Multimedia Message-ID: <78323d480812140719m7ff84199p510438206691fa81@mail.gmail.com> Shall I make this 'Fedora compatible' and move it to the user guide (Fedora- 8, 9, 10)? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Amani/Audio_Conversion:#Converting_Audio_and_Ripping_CDs_in_KDE Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 15 09:12:43 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 01:12:43 -0800 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <772B003932624D0AB2719EB4C903320D@Aidan> References: <20081212222209.GF19799@localhost.localdomain> <772B003932624D0AB2719EB4C903320D@Aidan> Message-ID: <20081215091243.GA4260@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 06:27:39PM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" > > To: > Sent: Friday, December 12, 2008 5:22 PM > Subject: Re: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest > >> Precisely, as far as I know. > > If you don't know, who does? Actually, it should be a good sign when Paul or I don't know everything that is happening around here. :) In last week's meeting we discussed doing a conversion of the F9 User Guide content to XML ... if we can get it finished in time for that. As a hackfest, we'll get to go over the how-to convert documentation and improve it where it's needded. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Dec 15 12:55:37 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 18:25:37 +0530 Subject: User Guide : Multimedia In-Reply-To: <78323d480812140719m7ff84199p510438206691fa81@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480812140719m7ff84199p510438206691fa81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <494653C9.7080706@fedoraproject.org> Mani A wrote: > Shall I make this 'Fedora compatible' and move it to the user guide > (Fedora- 8, 9, 10)? > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Amani/Audio_Conversion:#Converting_Audio_and_Ripping_CDs_in_KDE Seems, a too small amount of content. If you can expand on it to show more details and perhaps cover other desktop environments as well, it could be part of the desktop guide. Rahul From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Dec 15 13:09:03 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:09:03 -0500 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: <494656EF.6010408@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Betty, A "hackfest" is a time when folks gather around a table and try to hash out ideas and try to fix problems regarding a specific task. We are going to virtualize the process and use the technology we have at our fingertips for our hackfest. If you want to sign up for one of the tasks that has been placed on the wiki, just log in with your FAS user name and password and edit that particular portion of the wiki with your name as a follower. Then put it on your calendar so you won't forget and join us during the time period given. Hope that helps. Eric Betty Harvey wrote: > Hi Eric: > > I am not sure how this "Hackfest" works. I saw a Task "WIKI to XML" > that I can either lead or do. Let me know how I can go about > signing up. I am assuming the XML should be Docbook? > > Betty > > >> Events are starting to pop up on the Holiday Virtual Hackfest page. >> Don't be shy! Stop by and sign up to lead or follow! >> >> Eric >> >> >> On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 19:00 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: >>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >>>>>> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday > Virtual >>>>>> Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone to > lead >>>>>> them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to take > one >>>>>> of them on and schedule it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed please > put >>>>>> them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". >>>>> [1] > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest >>>>> ;-) >>>>> > Yeah, what he said. > >>> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ > Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 > Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | > harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp > URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklGVu0ACgkQL5V8yddJCO2npgCfdCf+WEjC5M4w0964RbQivAS9 HK8AnROcdI0rzh28BRK2XxXqyUqyRjNk =fTxx -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wb8rcr at arrl.net Mon Dec 15 13:53:01 2008 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 08:53:01 -0500 Subject: Some thoughts on beat writing References: <20081210224106.GB17466@calliope.phig.org> <20081211011218.GE17466@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karsten Wade" To: Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 8:12 PM Subject: Re: Some thoughts on beat writing >> Your wiki page stub awaits: >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_release_notes_beat_writer > I have a draft of that now. I would appreciate if others, especially beat writers, would bleed on it. Thanks --McD From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 15 18:00:07 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 10:00:07 -0800 Subject: where to place bugzilla components Message-ID: <20081215180007.GK4260@calliope.phig.org> As we begin to have more documents that have installable packages (beyond the release-notes and fedora-release-notes package), it might be confusing why we have apparently duplicate bugzilla components. What do you all think of this historical methodology? Would be nice to get a modern consensus so we can document how and why. As an example, we have the 'release-notes' component in the Fedora Documentation product on https://bugzilla.redhat.com. There is also the 'fedora-release-notes' package component in the Fedora product. The 'release-notes' component is for the upstream content. In that sense, *any* bugs reported against content should really be moved to that component; we probably have failed to do that until now. The 'fedora-release-notes' component is really for the package only. Because 'f-r-n' doesn't really break many things, it may not get many such bugs. Now that we can easily build RPM packages using Publican, we are likely to see more documents submitted as actual packages to be installable in Fedora. Then they show up under System > Documentation, etc. As a final confusing item, we have a Trac instance in the *real* upstream project, https://fedorahosted.org/release-notes. This issue tracker is strictly for the writing team(s) to coordinate work. So, a bug against 'f-r-n' may get moved to the 'r-n' component, then create one or more tickets in the upstream Trac. We could look at eliminating the Fedora Documentation component. What are the risks of doing that? Rewards seem to be -- simpler system, less confusion about where to file a bug. For the record, no one has ever reported confusion in where to file a Release Notes bug. People find one or the other component, probably don't know of the other, and file their bug. Since we haven't been moving bugs between components, most folks are probably not aware there are two similar-sounding bugzilla components. One approach is, we could look at completely eliminating the Fedora Documentation product. We would then move all of our content/upstream bugs to the individual Trac instances. This would require a package for each document, so it had a way to take bug reports via bugzilla under the regular Fedora product. Just like any other package works in Fedora. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Dec 15 19:03:30 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:03:30 -0500 Subject: fedora Linux Security Guide goes to srpm Message-ID: <1229367810.28536.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sorry, I thought I had put f-docs-l as an addee. -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Eric Christensen To: security-guide-list at redhat.com Subject: fedora Linux Security Guide goes to srpm Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 13:18:14 -0500 Mike (mhideo) walked me though building rpms of the Linux Security Guide last night. A Bugzilla request[1] has been entered to have the source rpm[2] reviewed. For anyone interested, I also generated a PDF[3] of the LSG. If you take a look at it you will see the obvious difference between the RH text and the Fedora text. There are other problems as well that will be worked out later this month. Feedback is encouraged. I'll let everyone know when I get feedback on the review process. Being a first time submitter, I am looking for a sponsor. Oh, and we'll most likely have this up on docs.fp.o once I get the text squared away. Thanks, Eric [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=476471 [2] http://sparks.fedorapeople.org/fedora-Linux_Security_Guide-10-en-US-1.0-1.src.rpm [3] http://sparks.fedorapeople.org/Linux_Security_Guide.pdf -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 15 19:23:08 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:23:08 -0800 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization In-Reply-To: <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> References: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081215192308.GO4260@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:15:20PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote: > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 09:50:22AM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > Howdy folks, > > > I moved this thread to fedora-wiki at lists.fedoraproject.org. It'd be > preferred that all discussion stays there :) Sorry I missed this one in my reply. I'm not sure this should move to the wiki list. The Packaging Guide is probably not destined for a wiki-only existence because: * The content needs to be immutable for people outside of the Packaging Committee (and writing team). This is one of the reasons we want a CMS for publishing. * We really need to make the Packaging Guide available for translation. For the foreseeable future, the wiki l10n process is the one oddity in an otherwise PO-using/Transifex-submitting system. Anyway, that's my perspective on things. Regardless, we really, really need a single lead writer for this one. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_content_tasks_for_experienced_contributors#Packaging_Guide_-_lead_writer If we don't get a lead writer, we basically have to tell the FPC et al, "Sorry." - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 15 19:25:05 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 11:25:05 -0800 Subject: User Guide : Multimedia In-Reply-To: <494653C9.7080706@fedoraproject.org> References: <78323d480812140719m7ff84199p510438206691fa81@mail.gmail.com> <494653C9.7080706@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20081215192505.GP4260@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 06:25:37PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Mani A wrote: >> Shall I make this 'Fedora compatible' and move it to the user guide >> (Fedora- 8, 9, 10)? >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Amani/Audio_Conversion:#Converting_Audio_and_Ripping_CDs_in_KDE > > > Seems, a too small amount of content. If you can expand on it to show > more details and perhaps cover other desktop environments as well, it > could be part of the desktop guide. At the very least, if you do insert it, you want to make stubs for the GNOME, XFCE, and CLI sections. The current best example of this is here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide-Financial_Software If people want to focus on a specific desktop environment, that is OK, as long as the others get covered by $someone. We are also not planning any new content for the F8 guide. Just push to publish and move on. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Dec 15 20:23:43 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 15:23:43 -0500 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization In-Reply-To: <20081215192308.GO4260@calliope.phig.org> References: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> <20081215192308.GO4260@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1229372623.28536.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> What needs to happen with the Packaging Guide? Is there something already there that needs some attention? Eric On Mon, 2008-12-15 at 11:23 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 11:15:20PM -0600, Ian Weller wrote: > > On Fri, Dec 12, 2008 at 09:50:22AM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > > > Howdy folks, > > > > > I moved this thread to fedora-wiki at lists.fedoraproject.org. It'd be > > preferred that all discussion stays there :) > > Sorry I missed this one in my reply. > > I'm not sure this should move to the wiki list. The Packaging Guide > is probably not destined for a wiki-only existence because: > > * The content needs to be immutable for people outside of the > Packaging Committee (and writing team). This is one of the reasons > we want a CMS for publishing. > > * We really need to make the Packaging Guide available for > translation. For the foreseeable future, the wiki l10n process is > the one oddity in an otherwise PO-using/Transifex-submitting system. > > Anyway, that's my perspective on things. > > Regardless, we really, really need a single lead writer for this one. > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_content_tasks_for_experienced_contributors#Packaging_Guide_-_lead_writer > > If we don't get a lead writer, we basically have to tell the FPC et > al, "Sorry." > > - Karsten > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 15 20:34:33 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:34:33 -0800 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization In-Reply-To: <1229372623.28536.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> <20081215192308.GO4260@calliope.phig.org> <1229372623.28536.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081215203433.GT4260@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 03:23:43PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > What needs to happen with the Packaging Guide? Is there something > already there that needs some attention? Take a look at Toshio's original email: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-December/msg00096.html https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Prefixindex/Packaging - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Dec 15 20:36:48 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 12:36:48 -0800 Subject: fedora Linux Security Guide goes to srpm In-Reply-To: <1229367810.28536.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1229367810.28536.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081215203648.GU4260@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:03:30PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > Sorry, I thought I had put f-docs-l as an addee. ... and thus one of the many reasons why both Paul and I asked ... "Why the separate email list?" For example, there are other ways to handle bugzilla streams than fractioning off a new list. - Karsten, who wants to see more documentation community happening *here* ps - There is only one fedora-devel-list, one fedora-docs-list, etc. for a good reason. Many eyes, and so forth. -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Dec 15 22:06:43 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:06:43 -0500 Subject: fedora Linux Security Guide goes to srpm In-Reply-To: <20081215203648.GU4260@calliope.phig.org> References: <1229367810.28536.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081215203648.GU4260@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4946D4F3.40508@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 02:03:30PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> Sorry, I thought I had put f-docs-l as an addee. > > ... and thus one of the many reasons why both Paul and I asked ... Of which I'll agree with to a point. Some projects don't have a lot of traffic and certainly don't need their own list. Other projects may have people that work only on a certain project and don't want to receive the static associated with a multi-project list. Of course then there is the point of keeping everyone on the same page. Is it possible to use "topic categories" on the f-docs-l? This could allow both a squelched version as well as an open version of the same list. Thanks, Eric Christensen E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org GPG Key: D74908ED -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklG1PEACgkQL5V8yddJCO3JPwCdES69U/DL+wsrY1zb9ZUCoywg t+QAnRRtYL1WOp9e/46K9OALHoPgNAxo =yUoz -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Dec 16 03:38:02 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 22:38:02 -0500 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization In-Reply-To: <20081215203433.GT4260@calliope.phig.org> References: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> <20081215192308.GO4260@calliope.phig.org> <1229372623.28536.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081215203433.GT4260@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4947229A.5010503@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten, So some sort of decision tree, maybe? Seems like an interesting task. I'm not sure how to approach it, though. Eric Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 03:23:43PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> What needs to happen with the Packaging Guide? Is there something >> already there that needs some attention? > > Take a look at Toshio's original email: > > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-December/msg00096.html > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Prefixindex/Packaging > > - Karsten > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklHIpgACgkQL5V8yddJCO0AFQCffiny5j89B2PRuauMuJTPYGXB 1ZkAnjglc+ch/wYpTKFBnBNtklATcc6H =BYI1 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 12:40:29 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:40:29 -0500 Subject: Installation/Setup for magazine In-Reply-To: <49479EB1.4000401@redhat.com> References: <20081210133052.GD3443@localhost.localdomain> <49479EB1.4000401@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20081216124029.GA24772@localhost.localdomain> Sorry this loop still looks open here -- I hooked Lucas up directly with the editor of the magazine in question, as promised, and they're in communication now. Paul On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 07:27:29AM -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote: > Hey Lucas, > > How is this going? Do you need any help? > > Thanks, > Jack > > Lucas - Linux Sys. Admin (CEFETCE/UAB) wrote: >> I can do that, :) >> I'll have this big holiday and stuff.. :) >> please send me more info, btw I already have some content, that I use >> on courses for our employees.. >> >> 2008/12/10 Paul W. Frields > > >> >> Over the summer, one of our Marketing contributors created an article >> for a Linux magazine featuring Fedora 9. The magazine is looking to >> feature Fedora 10 and wants to have a similar article by around >> Christmas (25 December) for later publication. >> >> Is there someone in the marketing team interested in producing such an >> article? I can provide details, a contact point, and probably even a >> pointer to the original article to help provide scope. >> >> -- >> Paul W. Frields >> http://paul.frields.org/ >> gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 >> http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ >> irc.freenode.net : stickster @ >> #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug >> >> -- >> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list >> Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com >> >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list >> >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Atenciosamente, >> Lucas do Amaral >> CEFET-CE - UAB-CE. >> Linux System Administrator Trainee >> Fedora Ambassador & Fedora Translator > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From harvey at eccnet.com Tue Dec 16 13:07:42 2008 From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 08:07:42 -0500 (EST) Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <494656EF.6010408@christensenplace.us> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <494656EF.6010408@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <54179.207.168.47.25.1229432862.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> I just signed up on the WIKI to convert Fedora 9 documentation to XML. I haven't used IRC in years so if I need to get on IRC I will need to reinstall and refamiliarize myself with it again. In the meantime, can you point me to where the documents that needs to be converted reside. This will help me make a better assessment of what is going to be required to get them converted to Docbook format. The other question I have is once they are in Docbook do you want to convert the source to XHTML and PDF using the Docbook XSLT libraries? Thanks! Betty > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Betty, > A "hackfest" is a time when folks gather around a table and try to hash > out ideas and try to fix problems regarding a specific task. We are > going to virtualize the process and use the technology we have at our > fingertips for our hackfest. > > If you want to sign up for one of the tasks that has been placed on the > wiki, just log in with your FAS user name and password and edit that > particular portion of the wiki with your name as a follower. > > Then put it on your calendar so you won't forget and join us during the > time period given. > > Hope that helps. > > Eric > > > Betty Harvey wrote: >> Hi Eric: >> >> I am not sure how this "Hackfest" works. I saw a Task "WIKI to XML" >> that I can either lead or do. Let me know how I can go about >> signing up. I am assuming the XML should be Docbook? >> >> Betty >> >> >>> Events are starting to pop up on the Holiday Virtual Hackfest page. >>> Don't be shy! Stop by and sign up to lead or follow! >>> >>> Eric >>> >>> >>> On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 19:00 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> Karsten Wade wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >>>>>>> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday >> Virtual >>>>>>> Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone to >> lead >>>>>>> them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to take >> one >>>>>>> of them on and schedule it. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed please >> put >>>>>>> them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". >>>>>> [1] >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest >>>>>> ;-) >>>>>> >> Yeah, what he said. >> >>>> >>> -- >>> fedora-docs-list mailing list >>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >>> To unsubscribe: >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >> Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 >> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | >> harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp >> URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAklGVu0ACgkQL5V8yddJCO2npgCfdCf+WEjC5M4w0964RbQivAS9 > HK8AnROcdI0rzh28BRK2XxXqyUqyRjNk > =fTxx > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Dec 16 16:58:38 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 11:58:38 -0500 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <54179.207.168.47.25.1229432862.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <494656EF.6010408@christensenplace.us> <54179.207.168.47.25.1229432862.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: <1229446718.3233.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> IRC is our main method of real-time communication here in the Docs Project. We are implementing VoIP[2] as well but IRC[1] is a must. Sign up and come join us at #fedora-docs. - Eric [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate#IRC [2] http://talk.fedoraproject.org On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 08:07 -0500, Betty Harvey wrote: > I just signed up on the WIKI to convert Fedora 9 documentation to XML. > I haven't used IRC in years so if I need to get on IRC I will need to > reinstall and refamiliarize myself with it again. > > In the meantime, can you point me to where the documents that needs to > be converted reside. This will help me make a better assessment of what > is going to be required to get them converted to Docbook format. > > The other question I have is once they are in Docbook do you want to > convert the source to XHTML and PDF using the Docbook XSLT libraries? > > Thanks! > > Betty > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Betty, > > A "hackfest" is a time when folks gather around a table and try to hash > > out ideas and try to fix problems regarding a specific task. We are > > going to virtualize the process and use the technology we have at our > > fingertips for our hackfest. > > > > If you want to sign up for one of the tasks that has been placed on the > > wiki, just log in with your FAS user name and password and edit that > > particular portion of the wiki with your name as a follower. > > > > Then put it on your calendar so you won't forget and join us during the > > time period given. > > > > Hope that helps. > > > > Eric > > > > > > Betty Harvey wrote: > >> Hi Eric: > >> > >> I am not sure how this "Hackfest" works. I saw a Task "WIKI to XML" > >> that I can either lead or do. Let me know how I can go about > >> signing up. I am assuming the XML should be Docbook? > >> > >> Betty > >> > >> > >>> Events are starting to pop up on the Holiday Virtual Hackfest page. > >>> Don't be shy! Stop by and sign up to lead or follow! > >>> > >>> Eric > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 19:00 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> Karsten Wade wrote: > >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > >>>>>>> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday > >> Virtual > >>>>>>> Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone to > >> lead > >>>>>>> them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to take > >> one > >>>>>>> of them on and schedule it. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed please > >> put > >>>>>>> them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". > >>>>>> [1] > >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest > >>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>> > >> Yeah, what he said. > >> > >>>> > >>> -- > >>> fedora-docs-list mailing list > >>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > >>> To unsubscribe: > >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ > >> Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 > >> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | > >> harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp > >> URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ > >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > > > iEYEARECAAYFAklGVu0ACgkQL5V8yddJCO2npgCfdCf+WEjC5M4w0964RbQivAS9 > > HK8AnROcdI0rzh28BRK2XxXqyUqyRjNk > > =fTxx > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ > Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 > Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | > harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp > URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From danielsmw at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 17:53:37 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:53:37 -0500 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <54179.207.168.47.25.1229432862.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <494656EF.6010408@christensenplace.us> <54179.207.168.47.25.1229432862.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: <17cd57cf0812160953s562c8ake4b1daefaa11cbd7@mail.gmail.com> Betty, I'm not entirely sure about the rest of the F9 documentation, but I know that not everything is ready for F9 yet (the User Guide, for example). Make sure you don't accidentally convert F8 content. However, the User Guide should be ready for F9 soon, and I imagine most stuff either already is or will be by the end of the Hackfest. -Matthew On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Betty Harvey wrote: > I just signed up on the WIKI to convert Fedora 9 documentation to XML. > I haven't used IRC in years so if I need to get on IRC I will need to > reinstall and refamiliarize myself with it again. > > In the meantime, can you point me to where the documents that needs to > be converted reside. This will help me make a better assessment of what > is going to be required to get them converted to Docbook format. > > The other question I have is once they are in Docbook do you want to > convert the source to XHTML and PDF using the Docbook XSLT libraries? > > Thanks! > > Betty > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Betty, > > A "hackfest" is a time when folks gather around a table and try to hash > > out ideas and try to fix problems regarding a specific task. We are > > going to virtualize the process and use the technology we have at our > > fingertips for our hackfest. > > > > If you want to sign up for one of the tasks that has been placed on the > > wiki, just log in with your FAS user name and password and edit that > > particular portion of the wiki with your name as a follower. > > > > Then put it on your calendar so you won't forget and join us during the > > time period given. > > > > Hope that helps. > > > > Eric > > > > > > Betty Harvey wrote: > >> Hi Eric: > >> > >> I am not sure how this "Hackfest" works. I saw a Task "WIKI to XML" > >> that I can either lead or do. Let me know how I can go about > >> signing up. I am assuming the XML should be Docbook? > >> > >> Betty > >> > >> > >>> Events are starting to pop up on the Holiday Virtual Hackfest page. > >>> Don't be shy! Stop by and sign up to lead or follow! > >>> > >>> Eric > >>> > >>> > >>> On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 19:00 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> Karsten Wade wrote: > >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > >>>>>>> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday > >> Virtual > >>>>>>> Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone to > >> lead > >>>>>>> them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to take > >> one > >>>>>>> of them on and schedule it. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed please > >> put > >>>>>>> them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". > >>>>>> [1] > >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest > >>>>>> ;-) > >>>>>> > >> Yeah, what he said. > >> > >>>> > >>> -- > >>> fedora-docs-list mailing list > >>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > >>> To unsubscribe: > >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ > >> Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 > >> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | > >> harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp > >> URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ > >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > > > iEYEARECAAYFAklGVu0ACgkQL5V8yddJCO2npgCfdCf+WEjC5M4w0964RbQivAS9 > > HK8AnROcdI0rzh28BRK2XxXqyUqyRjNk > > =fTxx > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ > Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 > Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | > harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp > URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- _____________________________ Reply To: danielsmw at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 18:31:37 2008 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 10:31:37 -0800 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization In-Reply-To: <4947229A.5010503@christensenplace.us> References: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> <20081215192308.GO4260@calliope.phig.org> <1229372623.28536.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081215203433.GT4260@calliope.phig.org> <4947229A.5010503@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <4947F409.6080708@gmail.com> Eric Christensen wrote: > Karsten, > So some sort of decision tree, maybe? Seems like an interesting task. > I'm not sure how to approach it, though. > A decision tree would be a major part of it. Also, making sure that the documentation is all findable. Where is the link to the Fonts Packaging Guidelines, for instance. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Dec 16 19:19:23 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 14:19:23 -0500 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization In-Reply-To: <4947F409.6080708@gmail.com> References: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> <20081215192308.GO4260@calliope.phig.org> <1229372623.28536.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081215203433.GT4260@calliope.phig.org> <4947229A.5010503@christensenplace.us> <4947F409.6080708@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1229455163.3233.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Toshio, So you basically need someone (or a group) to locate all the guidelines, make sure they represent what needs to be accomplished for a package, and then make a single page where all of the guidelines can be found with ease? -Eric On Tue, 2008-12-16 at 10:31 -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > Eric Christensen wrote: > > Karsten, > > So some sort of decision tree, maybe? Seems like an interesting task. > > I'm not sure how to approach it, though. > > > > > A decision tree would be a major part of it. Also, making sure that the > documentation is all findable. Where is the link to the Fonts Packaging > Guidelines, for instance. > > -Toshio > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 20:03:01 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:03:01 -0500 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization In-Reply-To: <1229455163.3233.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> <20081215192308.GO4260@calliope.phig.org> <1229372623.28536.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081215203433.GT4260@calliope.phig.org> <4947229A.5010503@christensenplace.us> <4947F409.6080708@gmail.com> <1229455163.3233.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081216200301.GC12407@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 02:19:23PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > Toshio, > So you basically need someone (or a group) to locate all the guidelines, > make sure they represent what needs to be accomplished for a package, > and then make a single page where all of the guidelines can be found > with ease? When John Poelstra and I broke up the Feature policy into separate pages, it became much more readable. You can establish a "flow," much like a procedure. I also don't mean that you want one step per page necessarily -- but you can balance the information so that it's grouped logically, but also digestible. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Dec 16 20:08:08 2008 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:08:08 -0800 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization In-Reply-To: <1229455163.3233.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> <20081215192308.GO4260@calliope.phig.org> <1229372623.28536.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081215203433.GT4260@calliope.phig.org> <4947229A.5010503@christensenplace.us> <4947F409.6080708@gmail.com> <1229455163.3233.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49480AA8.5060900@gmail.com> Eric Christensen wrote: > Toshio, > So you basically need someone (or a group) to locate all the guidelines, > make sure they represent what needs to be accomplished for a package, > and then make a single page where all of the guidelines can be found > with ease? > Maybe. The end goal is that a reviewer or packager can easily find all the Guidelines that they need to make a quality package. The organization comes in two parts: 1) It's not obvious where all the Guidelines are and they might not be linked from obvious places. I think the single page idea above could help with that. 2) There's so many Guidelines and they won't all apply to every package. That's where the decision tree type of solution comes in. (Or a table of contents with "General Guidelines -- Check these for all packages" "Libraries -- Check these if your package has a library in any language" "Python -- Check these if the package is written in or interface with Python") Right now we have the Package Review Guidelines[1]_ sort of does #1 but it isn't complete. The Review Guidelines and Guidelines[2]_ pages kinda reflect each other so they capture the main Guidelines. But we still need to add other information such as the language specific Guidelines (examples: Python_ and Java_) and Scriptlets_ pages. Working on only one of the two issues would be helpful but eventually we need something that addresses both problems. .. _[1]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/ReviewGuidelines .. _[2]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Guidelines .. _Python: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Python .. _Java: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/Java .. _Scriptlets: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/ScriptletSnippets -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From harvey at eccnet.com Tue Dec 16 20:33:44 2008 From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:33:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <17cd57cf0812160953s562c8ake4b1daefaa11cbd7@mail.gmail.com> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <494656EF.6010408@christensenplace.us> <54179.207.168.47.25.1229432862.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <17cd57cf0812160953s562c8ake4b1daefaa11cbd7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <52268.207.168.47.25.1229459624.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Where does the 'official version' of the documentation reside? I would like to take a look and see what will be required for conversion. Thanks! Betty > Betty, > > I'm not entirely sure about the rest of the F9 documentation, but I know > that not everything is ready for F9 yet (the User Guide, for example). > Make > sure you don't accidentally convert F8 content. However, the User Guide > should be ready for F9 soon, and I imagine most stuff either already is or > will be by the end of the Hackfest. > > -Matthew > > On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Betty Harvey wrote: > >> I just signed up on the WIKI to convert Fedora 9 documentation to XML. >> I haven't used IRC in years so if I need to get on IRC I will need to >> reinstall and refamiliarize myself with it again. >> >> In the meantime, can you point me to where the documents that needs to >> be converted reside. This will help me make a better assessment of what >> is going to be required to get them converted to Docbook format. >> >> The other question I have is once they are in Docbook do you want to >> convert the source to XHTML and PDF using the Docbook XSLT libraries? >> >> Thanks! >> >> Betty >> >> >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> > Hash: SHA1 >> > >> > Betty, >> > A "hackfest" is a time when folks gather around a table and try to >> hash >> > out ideas and try to fix problems regarding a specific task. We are >> > going to virtualize the process and use the technology we have at our >> > fingertips for our hackfest. >> > >> > If you want to sign up for one of the tasks that has been placed on >> the >> > wiki, just log in with your FAS user name and password and edit that >> > particular portion of the wiki with your name as a follower. >> > >> > Then put it on your calendar so you won't forget and join us during >> the >> > time period given. >> > >> > Hope that helps. >> > >> > Eric >> > >> > >> > Betty Harvey wrote: >> >> Hi Eric: >> >> >> >> I am not sure how this "Hackfest" works. I saw a Task "WIKI to XML" >> >> that I can either lead or do. Let me know how I can go about >> >> signing up. I am assuming the XML should be Docbook? >> >> >> >> Betty >> >> >> >> >> >>> Events are starting to pop up on the Holiday Virtual Hackfest page. >> >>> Don't be shy! Stop by and sign up to lead or follow! >> >>> >> >>> Eric >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 19:00 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> >> Karsten Wade wrote: >> >>>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> >>>>>>> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday >> >> Virtual >> >>>>>>> Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone >> to >> >> lead >> >>>>>>> them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to >> take >> >> one >> >>>>>>> of them on and schedule it. >> >>>>>>> >> >>>>>>> Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed >> please >> >> put >> >>>>>>> them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". >> >>>>>> [1] >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest >> >>>>>> ;-) >> >>>>>> >> >> Yeah, what he said. >> >> >> >>>> >> >>> -- >> >>> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> >>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> >>> To unsubscribe: >> >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > >> >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >> >> Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 >> >> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | >> >> harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users >> Grp >> >> URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ >> >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ >> > >> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) >> > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org >> > >> > iEYEARECAAYFAklGVu0ACgkQL5V8yddJCO2npgCfdCf+WEjC5M4w0964RbQivAS9 >> > HK8AnROcdI0rzh28BRK2XxXqyUqyRjNk >> > =fTxx >> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> > >> >> >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >> Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 >> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | >> harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp >> URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > > > > -- > _____________________________ > Reply To: danielsmw at gmail.com > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 16 20:59:31 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 12:59:31 -0800 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <52268.207.168.47.25.1229459624.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <494656EF.6010408@christensenplace.us> <54179.207.168.47.25.1229432862.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <17cd57cf0812160953s562c8ake4b1daefaa11cbd7@mail.gmail.com> <52268.207.168.47.25.1229459624.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: <20081216205931.GX4260@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 03:33:44PM -0500, Betty Harvey wrote: > Where does the 'official version' of the documentation reside? I would > like to take a look and see what will be required for conversion. One of our problems we are cleaning up is the spread of formal content in multiple locations. :) Wiki-based content should be in the [[Category:Documentation]] page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation When content is written natively in XML (Installation Guide) or drafted in the wiki and converted to XML (User Guide, Release Notes), it ends up on http://docs.fedoraproject.org. The how-to do work in the Docs Project-related content is also scattered; fixing that is another major project this month. You can find much of it here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project This is a bit outdated but has some good content: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_US/ One difference, to answer an earlier question, is the DocBook toolchain. Previously we cooked our own from whatever was in Fedora, xmlto and the passivetex chain for broken PDF. We are now moving to using a new upstream toolchain, Publican, which is used and maintained by the Red Hat Content Services team. Thus we can be downstream and contributors instead of maintainers of our own chain. We also still use our older toolchain in some existing content, as part of the transition. https://fedorahosted.org/publican So, the User Guide should be written to use Publican. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Dec 16 22:14:44 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 17:14:44 -0500 Subject: Software Management Guide >> User Guide and Administrator Guide Message-ID: <49482854.9040602@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Another task that has been on the Docs plate for a while is adding PackageKit to the Software Management Guide[1] (SMG). Karsten has pointed out that the SMG should be folded into either the User Guide[2] or the Administrator Guide[3] or both. It would be great if someone could handle completing the SMG and then handing it off to the writers of the other two guides so those guides can be completed. I don't think it would take more than a couple of paragraphs to discuss how PackageKit works and how to use it. I'll put it on the task list. - -Eric [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide [3] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklIKFEACgkQL5V8yddJCO2yDQCfSjVmXqL7cqYHz4gJRxhzWahc UssAn2AJnMmSdEIcCtysqegPwKWqIC2x =6W5y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 16 23:19:15 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 15:19:15 -0800 Subject: Packaging Guidelines Organization In-Reply-To: <49480AA8.5060900@gmail.com> References: <4942A45E.90705@gmail.com> <20081213051520.GC4508@gmail.com> <20081215192308.GO4260@calliope.phig.org> <1229372623.28536.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081215203433.GT4260@calliope.phig.org> <4947229A.5010503@christensenplace.us> <4947F409.6080708@gmail.com> <1229455163.3233.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <49480AA8.5060900@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081216231915.GZ4260@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 12:08:08PM -0800, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > Eric Christensen wrote: > > Toshio, > > So you basically need someone (or a group) to locate all the guidelines, > > make sure they represent what needs to be accomplished for a package, > > and then make a single page where all of the guidelines can be found > > with ease? > > > Maybe. The end goal is that a reviewer or packager can easily find all > the Guidelines that they need to make a quality package. The > organization comes in two parts: > > 1) It's not obvious where all the Guidelines are and they might not be > linked from obvious places. I think the single page idea above could > help with that. > > 2) There's so many Guidelines and they won't all apply to every package. > That's where the decision tree type of solution comes in. (Or a table > of contents with "General Guidelines -- Check these for all packages" > "Libraries -- Check these if your package has a library in any language" > "Python -- Check these if the package is written in or interface with > Python") Table/matrix might be better. A decision tree, especially implemented in any hard markup (such as wiki or XML) becomes a maintenance hassle each time a leaf node is tweaked. Since we can anticipate the major paths people want to take, we can probably group them together relatively well. If done on the wiki, this begs for a nice categorization, I think. E.g. [[Category:Python packaging guidelines]] would be in each page that had anything to do with Python packaging. It could even be a general page, so that general page appeared in *all* categories. It was for this kind of stuff that I think Ian looked to fedora-wiki as the list for discussion. However, Toshio, you skipped a third imperative: 3) Translate the guidelines. It is the natural evolution of a document that when it is useful enough to revitalize and care for over the long term, it is very likely it needs to be available for translation. We could leave this to the wiki l10n methods coming rather soon, but I personally am quite skeptical about that. Until it is proven and used, it is not the normal pathway for getting content localized. > Right now we have the Package Review Guidelines[1]_ sort of does #1 but > it isn't complete. The Review Guidelines and Guidelines[2]_ pages kinda > reflect each other so they capture the main Guidelines. But we still > need to add other information such as the language specific Guidelines > (examples: Python_ and Java_) and Scriptlets_ pages. > > Working on only one of the two issues would be helpful but eventually we > need something that addresses both problems. Another imperative is enabling the FPC to work on the guidelines easily. We also want to organize the content collaboratively before committing new structure to any other markup such as XML. It seems like a good idea to start reorganizing content in to categories. We can do this in a sandbox name space perhaps? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 15:27:06 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:57:06 +0530 Subject: User Guide : Multimedia In-Reply-To: <78323d480812140719m7ff84199p510438206691fa81@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480812140719m7ff84199p510438206691fa81@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <78323d480812170727wc3054d7o5a1971447c7c621c@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:31 PM, wrote: Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 06:25:37PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Seems, a too small amount of content. If you can expand on it to show >> more details and perhaps cover other desktop environments as well, it >> could be part of the desktop guide. > > If people want to focus on a specific desktop environment, that is OK, > as long as the others get covered by $someone. > > We are also not planning any new content for the F8 guide. Just push > to publish and move on. I will make it more complete and then shift it by Sunday. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Dec 17 17:14:06 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 12:14:06 -0500 Subject: Meeting today at 19:00 Message-ID: <4949335E.9090703@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Come one, come all... Docs Meeting at 19:00 UTC in #fedora-meeting. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklJM1gACgkQL5V8yddJCO1/tACeNJ2ujo/Ba6Z15iRJcyzCSNCE k/UAn0RHk+Cs9mbzSM4BgNou0t5ygGQc =O6yA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Dec 17 20:40:45 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 15:40:45 -0500 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <52268.207.168.47.25.1229459624.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <494656EF.6010408@christensenplace.us> <54179.207.168.47.25.1229432862.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <17cd57cf0812160953s562c8ake4b1daefaa11cbd7@mail.gmail.com> <52268.207.168.47.25.1229459624.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: <494963CD.3090606@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Betty, I think we need to update the User Guide before we can move it to XML. We might need to move your hackfest to later in the week or use your time to work on the User Guide, itself. Eric Betty Harvey wrote: > Where does the 'official version' of the documentation reside? I would > like to take a look and see what will be required for conversion. > > Thanks! > > Betty > > > >> Betty, >> >> I'm not entirely sure about the rest of the F9 documentation, but I know >> that not everything is ready for F9 yet (the User Guide, for example). >> Make >> sure you don't accidentally convert F8 content. However, the User Guide >> should be ready for F9 soon, and I imagine most stuff either already is or >> will be by the end of the Hackfest. >> >> -Matthew >> >> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Betty Harvey wrote: >> >>> I just signed up on the WIKI to convert Fedora 9 documentation to XML. >>> I haven't used IRC in years so if I need to get on IRC I will need to >>> reinstall and refamiliarize myself with it again. >>> >>> In the meantime, can you point me to where the documents that needs to >>> be converted reside. This will help me make a better assessment of what >>> is going to be required to get them converted to Docbook format. >>> >>> The other question I have is once they are in Docbook do you want to >>> convert the source to XHTML and PDF using the Docbook XSLT libraries? >>> >>> Thanks! >>> >>> Betty >>> >>> > Betty, > A "hackfest" is a time when folks gather around a table and try to >>>> hash > out ideas and try to fix problems regarding a specific task. We are > going to virtualize the process and use the technology we have at our > fingertips for our hackfest. > > If you want to sign up for one of the tasks that has been placed on >>>> the > wiki, just log in with your FAS user name and password and edit that > particular portion of the wiki with your name as a follower. > > Then put it on your calendar so you won't forget and join us during >>>> the > time period given. > > Hope that helps. > > Eric > > > Betty Harvey wrote: >>>>>> Hi Eric: >>>>>> >>>>>> I am not sure how this "Hackfest" works. I saw a Task "WIKI to XML" >>>>>> that I can either lead or do. Let me know how I can go about >>>>>> signing up. I am assuming the XML should be Docbook? >>>>>> >>>>>> Betty >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> Events are starting to pop up on the Holiday Virtual Hackfest page. >>>>>>> Don't be shy! Stop by and sign up to lead or follow! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 19:00 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >>>>>> Karsten Wade wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the Holiday >>>>>> Virtual >>>>>>>>>>> Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need someone >>>> to >>>>>> lead >>>>>>>>>>> them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to >>>> take >>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>> of them on and schedule it. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed >>>> please >>>>>> put >>>>>>>>>>> them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". >>>>>>>>>> [1] >>>>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest >>>>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, what he said. >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> fedora-docs-list mailing list >>>>>>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >>>>>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >>>>>> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >>>>>> Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 >>>>>> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | >>>>>> harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users >>>> Grp >>>>>> URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ >>>>>> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ >>>> >>> >>> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >>> Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 >>> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | >>> harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp >>> URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ >>> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ >>> >>> -- >>> fedora-docs-list mailing list >>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >>> To unsubscribe: >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >>> >> >> >> -- >> _____________________________ >> Reply To: danielsmw at gmail.com >> > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ > Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 > Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | > harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp > URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklJY8sACgkQL5V8yddJCO2x5ACfWtborxYYgbAvYvuix9zSJVrY KLwAn3K/8SBiZNKDlei1V2ju53ewyZdc =V16Y -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From harvey at eccnet.com Wed Dec 17 21:20:14 2008 From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 16:20:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <494963CD.3090606@christensenplace.us> References: <1228939459.3292.87.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <494656EF.6010408@christensenplace.us> <54179.207.168.47.25.1229432862.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <17cd57cf0812160953s562c8ake4b1daefaa11cbd7@mail.gmail.com> <52268.207.168.47.25.1229459624.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <494963CD.3090606@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <4711.207.245.175.100.1229548814.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Hi Eric: I can help edit the Users Guide. What other documents will need to be converted. Betty > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Betty, > I think we need to update the User Guide before we can move it to XML. > We might need to move your hackfest to later in the week or use your > time to work on the User Guide, itself. > > Eric > > > Betty Harvey wrote: >> Where does the 'official version' of the documentation reside? I would >> like to take a look and see what will be required for conversion. >> >> Thanks! >> >> Betty >> >> >> >>> Betty, >>> >>> I'm not entirely sure about the rest of the F9 documentation, but I >>> know >>> that not everything is ready for F9 yet (the User Guide, for example). >>> Make >>> sure you don't accidentally convert F8 content. However, the User >>> Guide >>> should be ready for F9 soon, and I imagine most stuff either already is >>> or >>> will be by the end of the Hackfest. >>> >>> -Matthew >>> >>> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 8:07 AM, Betty Harvey >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I just signed up on the WIKI to convert Fedora 9 documentation to XML. >>>> I haven't used IRC in years so if I need to get on IRC I will need to >>>> reinstall and refamiliarize myself with it again. >>>> >>>> In the meantime, can you point me to where the documents that needs to >>>> be converted reside. This will help me make a better assessment of >>>> what >>>> is going to be required to get them converted to Docbook format. >>>> >>>> The other question I have is once they are in Docbook do you want to >>>> convert the source to XHTML and PDF using the Docbook XSLT libraries? >>>> >>>> Thanks! >>>> >>>> Betty >>>> >>>> >> Betty, >> A "hackfest" is a time when folks gather around a table and try to >>>>> hash >> out ideas and try to fix problems regarding a specific task. We are >> going to virtualize the process and use the technology we have at our >> fingertips for our hackfest. >> >> If you want to sign up for one of the tasks that has been placed on >>>>> the >> wiki, just log in with your FAS user name and password and edit that >> particular portion of the wiki with your name as a follower. >> >> Then put it on your calendar so you won't forget and join us during >>>>> the >> time period given. >> >> Hope that helps. >> >> Eric >> >> >> Betty Harvey wrote: >>>>>>> Hi Eric: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I am not sure how this "Hackfest" works. I saw a Task "WIKI to >>>>>>> XML" >>>>>>> that I can either lead or do. Let me know how I can go about >>>>>>> signing up. I am assuming the XML should be Docbook? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Betty >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Events are starting to pop up on the Holiday Virtual Hackfest >>>>>>>> page. >>>>>>>> Don't be shy! Stop by and sign up to lead or follow! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Eric >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Wed, 2008-12-10 at 19:00 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >>>>>>> Karsten Wade wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 10, 2008 at 03:04:19PM -0500, Eric Christensen >>>>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> During today's meeting I made a couple of changes to the >>>>>>>>>>>> Holiday >>>>>>> Virtual >>>>>>>>>>>> Hackfest[1]. We now have taskers for the event but need >>>>>>>>>>>> someone >>>>> to >>>>>>> lead >>>>>>>>>>>> them. Please take a look at the list and see if you'd like to >>>>> take >>>>>>> one >>>>>>>>>>>> of them on and schedule it. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Also, if you know of other taskers that need to be addressed >>>>> please >>>>>>> put >>>>>>>>>>>> them under the "Tasks to be scheduled". >>>>>>>>>>> [1] >>>>>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest >>>>>>>>>>> ;-) >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> Yeah, what he said. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> fedora-docs-list mailing list >>>>>>>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe: >>>>>>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >>>>>>> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >>>>>>> Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: >>>>>>> 9830 >>>>>>> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | >>>>>>> harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users >>>>> Grp >>>>>>> URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ >>>>>>> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ >>>>> >>>> >>>> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >>>> Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 >>>> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | >>>> harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users >>>> Grp >>>> URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ >>>> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ >>>> >>>> -- >>>> fedora-docs-list mailing list >>>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> _____________________________ >>> Reply To: danielsmw at gmail.com >>> > >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ >> Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 >> Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | >> harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp >> URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ >> /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iEYEARECAAYFAklJY8sACgkQL5V8yddJCO2x5ACfWtborxYYgbAvYvuix9zSJVrY > KLwAn3K/8SBiZNKDlei1V2ju53ewyZdc > =V16Y > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ From danielsmw at gmail.com Wed Dec 17 22:42:26 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:42:26 -0500 Subject: Fedora User Guide Message-ID: <17cd57cf0812171442p6c81a83xe3d53a074755d339@mail.gmail.com> Fedora User Guide Update ======================== The user guide for Fedora 8 has been hidden within the FedoraProject.org wiki for some time now. It has finally been cleaned up and placed neatly in its own page. We have also added a User Guide category under which future UGs should be located. * F8 UG Table of Contents - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F8_User_Guide * Category: User Guide - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:User_Guide * Category: F8 User Guide - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:F8_User_Guide Questions about the user guide can be directed to fedora-docs-list at redhat.com. The F9, and, hopefully, the F10 user guides should be released in the coming weeks. > Matthew Daniels -- _____________________________ Reply To: danielsmw at gmail.com From danielsmw at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 01:04:22 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:04:22 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora User Guide In-Reply-To: <1229558954.4968.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <17cd57cf0812171442p6c81a83xe3d53a074755d339@mail.gmail.com> <1229558954.4968.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, 18 Dec 2008, N. James Bridge wrote: > On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 17:42 -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: >> Fedora User Guide Update >> ======================== >> >> The user guide for Fedora 8 has been hidden within the >> FedoraProject.org wiki for some time now. It has finally been cleaned >> up and placed neatly in its own page. We have also added a User Guide >> category under which future UGs should be located. > Well, thank you, but it does appear a bit basic. Most apps come with > documentation but some things really do need explaining - like sound. > The Fedora desktop menus provide a volume control for ALSA (and OSS) and > another one for PA. There is also a Sound Preferences window, the first > tab of which bears little resemblance to what is described in the help > file. Some of this stuff one can figure out by trial and error and > playback seems to work reliably but recording is a different matter. > -- > N. James Bridge Thank you for your suggestion. This is something we can certainly keep in mind as we move forward for our F9 and F10 User Guides. If there are any specific resources that you may have already found that could help out in writing these sections, please let me know. Also keep in mind that - although I can't vouch for this 100% - there are probably more advanced articles on the Fedora wiki that address at least some of these issues. The User Guide is indended for the basic end user's familiarization with Fedora, not for the detailed working of each component. Nonetheless, it would be wise for us to address a lack of support for sound and audio if it exists. From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 18 01:40:28 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:40:28 -0800 Subject: Update: Holiday Virtual Hackfest In-Reply-To: <4711.207.245.175.100.1229548814.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <20081210211105.GB4265@calliope.phig.org> <49405809.5010902@christensenplace.us> <1229112698.21656.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> <3479.207.245.175.123.1229114489.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <494656EF.6010408@christensenplace.us> <54179.207.168.47.25.1229432862.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <17cd57cf0812160953s562c8ake4b1daefaa11cbd7@mail.gmail.com> <52268.207.168.47.25.1229459624.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <494963CD.3090606@christensenplace.us> <4711.207.245.175.100.1229548814.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: <20081218014028.GE4260@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 04:20:14PM -0500, Betty Harvey wrote: > Hi Eric: > > I can help edit the Users Guide. What other documents will need to > be converted. One related item we were talking about is converting the Installation Guide to use Publican; much less of a task than a from-wiki conversion. I added a session for Saturday night on 27 Dec.; I'll be travelling back to Santa Cruz from Fresno that day and not available until the early evening PST. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest#Convert_Installation_Guide_to_Publican_and_document_the_process I'm not sure we'll have any other content ready for conversion then. We can schedule another conversion hackfest for the FUDCon days, 9 and 11 January. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 18 01:48:26 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 17:48:26 -0800 Subject: Fedora User Guide In-Reply-To: References: <17cd57cf0812171442p6c81a83xe3d53a074755d339@mail.gmail.com> <1229558954.4968.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081218014826.GF4260@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 08:04:22PM -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: > Thank you for your suggestion. This is something we can certainly keep > in mind as we move forward for our F9 and F10 User Guides. If there are > any specific resources that you may have already found that could help > out in writing these sections, please let me know. This calls to mind my recent topic on bugzilla components. Where do we want people making feature requests (RFEs) for the User Guide? Ah, the answer is clear; since we are going to convert to XML, we'll need a new fedorahosted.org site. We'll add a Trac instance and use that for upstream feature and bug tracking. I suppose what we need is a bugzilla component, but that is the open question. Matthew -- if I get us the fedorahosted.org space setup, can you convert some of these in to tasks to track there? I haven't done a full fhosted.org setup yet, so I'll document it as I go. ;-) > Also keep in mind that - although I can't vouch for this 100% - there are > probably more advanced articles on the Fedora wiki that address at least > some of these issues. The User Guide is indended for the basic end > user's familiarization with Fedora, not for the detailed working of each > component. Nonetheless, it would be wise for us to address a lack of > support for sound and audio if it exists. As we find pages like that (and put them in [[Category:Documentation]] and/or [[Category:How to]]), we can link to them from the User Guide. This gives us nice longevity and control -- the UG stands alone a bit better as a starting place, and let's us wikify some of the stickier how-to details that change as the release progresses. Anything pertinent can migrate to the UG, for further translation etc. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From danielsmw at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 01:57:05 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:57:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora User Guide In-Reply-To: <20081218014826.GF4260@calliope.phig.org> References: <17cd57cf0812171442p6c81a83xe3d53a074755d339@mail.gmail.com> <1229558954.4968.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081218014826.GF4260@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Dec 2008, Karsten Wade wrote: > Matthew -- if I get us the fedorahosted.org space setup, can you > convert some of these in to tasks to track there? I haven't done a > full fhosted.org setup yet, so I'll document it as I go. ;-) Of course. Just let me know when it's setup and where to access it. > As we find pages like that (and put them in [[Category:Documentation]] > and/or [[Category:How to]]), we can link to them from the User Guide. > This gives us nice longevity and control -- the UG stands alone a bit > better as a starting place, and let's us wikify some of the stickier > how-to details that change as the release progresses. Anything > pertinent can migrate to the UG, for further translation etc. The only minor problem with this is that we can't include various wiki pages in the published guides, and, even if we link to them, they will eventually be outdated. I think this is something we can overlook, though. Topics for more advanced users will be looked at my more advanced users who should be able to figure it out. +1 on this idea. -Matthew From danielsmw at gmail.com Thu Dec 18 01:57:05 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Wed, 17 Dec 2008 20:57:05 -0500 (EST) Subject: Fedora User Guide In-Reply-To: <20081218014826.GF4260@calliope.phig.org> References: <17cd57cf0812171442p6c81a83xe3d53a074755d339@mail.gmail.com> <1229558954.4968.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081218014826.GF4260@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Wed, 17 Dec 2008, Karsten Wade wrote: > Matthew -- if I get us the fedorahosted.org space setup, can you > convert some of these in to tasks to track there? I haven't done a > full fhosted.org setup yet, so I'll document it as I go. ;-) Of course. Just let me know when it's setup and where to access it. > As we find pages like that (and put them in [[Category:Documentation]] > and/or [[Category:How to]]), we can link to them from the User Guide. > This gives us nice longevity and control -- the UG stands alone a bit > better as a starting place, and let's us wikify some of the stickier > how-to details that change as the release progresses. Anything > pertinent can migrate to the UG, for further translation etc. The only minor problem with this is that we can't include various wiki pages in the published guides, and, even if we link to them, they will eventually be outdated. I think this is something we can overlook, though. Topics for more advanced users will be looked at my more advanced users who should be able to figure it out. +1 on this idea. -Matthew From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Dec 18 18:42:32 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:42:32 -0500 Subject: Virtual Hackfest Schedule to be finalized! Message-ID: <1229625752.3323.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> If you have been considering hosting a Hackfest[1] event but haven't scheduled it yet NOW IS THE TIME! Here is a list of items that have not been claimed as of yet: Wiki Work * Finish F9 User Guide modifications * Update F9 User Guide to F10 Wiki to XML * Post F9 User Guide -> F10, convert to XML * Move completed security drafts to XML Creation Work * Write a migration doc for fedora-doc-utils to publican There are also four days that do not have events planned. Please take a look at the schedule and see when you can help out with an event that is already on the plan. Let's try to make this a success and get a lot of these tasks completed before the end of the year. I'd like to have the schedule firmed up this weekend. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest Thanks! Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From shajia_khan at yahoo.com Thu Dec 18 20:28:00 2008 From: shajia_khan at yahoo.com (Shajia Khan) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 15:28:00 -0500 Subject: contributing in docs projec (user guide) Message-ID: <001501c9614f$1f45d270$5dd17750$@com> Hi Krasten, I am willing to start working to for user guide, in the areas like user guide Tour of the KDE desktop, Xfce desktop or user guide using media. I have read the primary description of the projects, but I couldn't figure out what will be the next step. Please let me know at your earliest convenience. Shajia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 18 20:49:43 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 12:49:43 -0800 Subject: things to get ready for virt hackfest Message-ID: <20081218204943.GE30687@calliope.phig.org> Just a quick brain dump of what you want to be able to do for virtual hackfest. We are going to do these over the holiday weeks *and* during FUDCon. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FUDCon/FUDConF11#Hackfest_sessions * Fedora Talk account working with SIP phone (twinkle, ekiga, manual handset) * Gobby installed and read how to get on gobby.fedoraproject.org * IRC ready to use * Tools installed - an editor (Emacs, vi, Gedit, Eclipse, etc.), publican, 'Authoring and Publishing' yum group, 'fedora-doc-utils' (possibly), git/svn/cvs * ??? Stop by #fedora-docs and/or ask here, we'll get each of those things sorted out. Perhaps someone can whip up a section on the wiki page? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 18 21:21:52 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:21:52 -0800 Subject: Virtual Hackfest Schedule to be finalized! In-Reply-To: <1229625752.3323.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1229625752.3323.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081218212152.GF30687@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 01:42:32PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > * Post F9 User Guide -> F10, convert to XML https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest#Post_F9_User_Guide_-.3E_F10.2C_convert_to_XML > * Write a migration doc for fedora-doc-utils to publican https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest#Convert_Installation_Guide_to_Publican_and_document_the_process I'll remove the second from the to-be scheduled list. Betty, we need to see about moving the first activity to later in the week, until after we do a day rewriting the F9 User Guide. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Dec 18 21:35:26 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 13:35:26 -0800 Subject: contributing in docs projec (user guide) In-Reply-To: <001501c9614f$1f45d270$5dd17750$@com> References: <001501c9614f$1f45d270$5dd17750$@com> Message-ID: <20081218213526.GG30687@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 03:28:00PM -0500, Shajia Khan wrote: > I am willing to start working to for user guide, in the areas like user > guide Tour of the KDE desktop, Xfce desktop or user guide using media. I > have read the primary description of the projects, but I couldn't figure out > what will be the next step. Please let me know at your earliest convenience. Hi Shajia: Our next work for the User Guide is to rewrite it and finish updating it for Fedora 9. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_tasks Over the next week, Matthew Daniels and others will be updating that page to reflect work to be done. In addition to updating the content for Fedora 9, tThe main work is rewriting the content to match the style here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide-Financial_Software Ask more questions, please. We should coordinate all this work via the mailing list. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From harvey at eccnet.com Thu Dec 18 21:54:11 2008 From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 16:54:11 -0500 (EST) Subject: Virtual Hackfest Schedule to be finalized! In-Reply-To: <20081218212152.GF30687@calliope.phig.org> References: <1229625752.3323.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081218212152.GF30687@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <37767.207.168.47.20.1229637251.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Later in the week will actually work better for me since I just decided to visit family in Mississippi December 26-29. How does the 31st sound? I am going to do some test work on getting the documents out of WIKI and start writing the conversion routines. I am hoping that XSLT will get us all the way there but if not I use Omnimark for preprocessing (sorry don't do perl or awk or sed very well). Betty > On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 01:42:32PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> * Post F9 User Guide -> F10, convert to XML > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest#Post_F9_User_Guide_-.3E_F10.2C_convert_to_XML > >> * Write a migration doc for fedora-doc-utils to publican > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest#Convert_Installation_Guide_to_Publican_and_document_the_process > > I'll remove the second from the to-be scheduled list. Betty, we need > to see about moving the first activity to later in the week, until > after we do a day rewriting the F9 User Guide. > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener > http://quaid.fedorapeople.org > AD0E0C41 > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ From jaa at redhat.com Tue Dec 16 12:27:29 2008 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Tue, 16 Dec 2008 07:27:29 -0500 Subject: Installation/Setup for magazine In-Reply-To: References: <20081210133052.GD3443@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49479EB1.4000401@redhat.com> Hey Lucas, How is this going? Do you need any help? Thanks, Jack Lucas - Linux Sys. Admin (CEFETCE/UAB) wrote: > I can do that, :) > I'll have this big holiday and stuff.. :) > please send me more info, btw I already have some content, that I use > on courses for our employees.. > > 2008/12/10 Paul W. Frields > > > Over the summer, one of our Marketing contributors created an article > for a Linux magazine featuring Fedora 9. The magazine is looking to > feature Fedora 10 and wants to have a similar article by around > Christmas (25 December) for later publication. > > Is there someone in the marketing team interested in producing such an > article? I can provide details, a contact point, and probably even a > pointer to the original article to help provide scope. > > -- > Paul W. Frields > http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net : stickster @ > #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > -- > -- > Atenciosamente, > Lucas do Amaral > CEFET-CE - UAB-CE. > Linux System Administrator Trainee > Fedora Ambassador & Fedora Translator From james at xmas.demon.co.uk Thu Dec 18 00:09:14 2008 From: james at xmas.demon.co.uk (N. James Bridge) Date: Thu, 18 Dec 2008 00:09:14 +0000 Subject: Fedora User Guide In-Reply-To: <17cd57cf0812171442p6c81a83xe3d53a074755d339@mail.gmail.com> References: <17cd57cf0812171442p6c81a83xe3d53a074755d339@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1229558954.4968.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 17:42 -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: > Fedora User Guide Update > ======================== > > The user guide for Fedora 8 has been hidden within the > FedoraProject.org wiki for some time now. It has finally been cleaned > up and placed neatly in its own page. We have also added a User Guide > category under which future UGs should be located. Well, thank you, but it does appear a bit basic. Most apps come with documentation but some things really do need explaining - like sound. The Fedora desktop menus provide a volume control for ALSA (and OSS) and another one for PA. There is also a Sound Preferences window, the first tab of which bears little resemblance to what is described in the help file. Some of this stuff one can figure out by trial and error and playback seems to work reliably but recording is a different matter. -- N. James Bridge From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat Dec 20 18:47:51 2008 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:47:51 -0000 Subject: #22: Push F10 RC fedora-release-notes package In-Reply-To: <056.523af5e150f6f323b50fa9b2495c9b8e@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.523af5e150f6f323b50fa9b2495c9b8e@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.7436710979989be0317c7c6b0a93e8ca@fedorahosted.org> #22: Push F10 RC fedora-release-notes package --------------------+------------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: RC-ready Component: Admin | Version: Resolution: fixed | Keywords: --------------------+------------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed Comment: Pretty sure we completed this on time. -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat Dec 20 18:48:35 2008 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:48:35 -0000 Subject: #23: Push F10 RC release notes "live" to docs.fp.o In-Reply-To: <056.648f2c10c03e5da654df523870ee8f37@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.648f2c10c03e5da654df523870ee8f37@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.ec4bd05db5c89514028cf9f9b4cd7594@fedorahosted.org> #23: Push F10 RC release notes "live" to docs.fp.o --------------------+------------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: RC-ready Component: Admin | Version: Resolution: fixed | Keywords: --------------------+------------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat Dec 20 18:48:55 2008 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:48:55 -0000 Subject: #21: Check RC release notes returned from L10n In-Reply-To: <056.a6b5581d3c4e16dd8021945d9be1a8f7@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.a6b5581d3c4e16dd8021945d9be1a8f7@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.617719e6fdf392128d17b20727bc00bc@fedorahosted.org> #21: Check RC release notes returned from L10n --------------------+------------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: RC-ready Component: Admin | Version: Resolution: fixed | Keywords: --------------------+------------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat Dec 20 18:49:36 2008 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:49:36 -0000 Subject: #20: Push RC release notes to L10n In-Reply-To: <056.20720824dc2e96a03cf2a8f1c89f1ae2@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.20720824dc2e96a03cf2a8f1c89f1ae2@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.5a29479c4ba8a5ebf5872d6bfdc8f270@fedorahosted.org> #20: Push RC release notes to L10n --------------------+------------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: RC-ready Component: Admin | Version: Resolution: fixed | Keywords: --------------------+------------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat Dec 20 18:50:30 2008 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:50:30 -0000 Subject: #18: Community vetting during Preview Release In-Reply-To: <056.2d7a4dc85c356fc28d71ea6372533e7e@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.2d7a4dc85c356fc28d71ea6372533e7e@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.34a5d53ef13e2de3aad2565d35491649@fedorahosted.org> #18: Community vetting during Preview Release ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: RC-ready Component: Content | Version: Resolution: fixed | Keywords: ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed Comment: We probably shouldn't have tickets against things we don't do, but maybe this means "accept and clear all bugs during PR phase"? -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat Dec 20 18:50:44 2008 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:50:44 -0000 Subject: #19: Resync content from wiki Beats to XML (manual) In-Reply-To: <056.8ab15e7e36c887bf8d988beaf6ff33b9@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.8ab15e7e36c887bf8d988beaf6ff33b9@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.8e63809954cbae7c2e4bb88b800e6aeb@fedorahosted.org> #19: Resync content from wiki Beats to XML (manual) ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: RC-ready Component: Content | Version: Resolution: fixed | Keywords: ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat Dec 20 18:51:23 2008 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:51:23 -0000 Subject: #24: Any fixes needed to f-r-n for RC ready (potential blockers) In-Reply-To: <056.19b78e566e3db0bc4cab48660f3e4bf1@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.19b78e566e3db0bc4cab48660f3e4bf1@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.c28891c26282f5966139751c9b138bf1@fedorahosted.org> #24: Any fixes needed to f-r-n for RC ready (potential blockers) -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: critical | Milestone: Component: Admin | Version: Resolution: fixed | Keywords: -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat Dec 20 18:52:25 2008 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 18:52:25 -0000 Subject: #27: Generate list of writers, editors, and translators for Colohon. In-Reply-To: <056.578985a931e18bde91c3d49d4a7e51bb@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.578985a931e18bde91c3d49d4a7e51bb@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.fef100f8c4e3207b97975eaebbfabad7@fedorahosted.org> #27: Generate list of writers, editors, and translators for Colohon. ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: RC-ready Component: Content | Version: 10.0.0 Resolution: fixed | Keywords: ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed Comment: We collected all translator names through posting to L10n list, and they were all incorporated in the colophon. -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From danielsmw at gmail.com Sat Dec 20 20:50:37 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 15:50:37 -0500 Subject: Todo for F9 User Guide Message-ID: <79699D32-BD8D-4698-B58C-AF13B30ADADF@gmail.com> So there's a few things to be done to have the F9 UG ready for conversion to XML. Most of these have been noted on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_tasks but I thought it would be good to list them out on the f-d-l as well. Articles to be updated: KDE Guide, Xfce Guide, Media, Connecting to the Internet, Accessing the Web, Communications, Office Tools, Multimedia, Games, Photos, Desktop Sharing, Customizing the Desktop, Managing Software. The other articles may need to be touched up stylistically; take a look at Eawest's revision of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide-Financial_Software for a good example of the style we're looking for. Additionally, the GNOME desktop tour needs to be temporarily revised. John McDonough updated it for F10, which we can use when we get there, but we need that intermediate F9 version as well. I would like to see the guide almost entirely F9'ed by the beginning of the hackfest so we can use that time to finish anything that's not done, ship to XML, and then jump right onto F10. If anyone can work on an article, please feel free to do so and make a note of it either on the UG tasks page, IRC, this list, or all of those so nobody gets confused and tries to redo your work. Happy holidays to all. -- Matthew Daniels PS: Karsten has been kind enough to set up a User Guide project on fedorahosted.org (https://fedorahosted.org/userguide/). Please use this space to post request/suggestions/error tickets if you have any. From stickster at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 00:00:44 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:00:44 -0500 Subject: Todo for F9 User Guide In-Reply-To: <79699D32-BD8D-4698-B58C-AF13B30ADADF@gmail.com> References: <79699D32-BD8D-4698-B58C-AF13B30ADADF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081221000036.GA17136@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 03:50:37PM -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: > PS: Karsten has been kind enough to set up a User Guide project on > fedorahosted.org (https://fedorahosted.org/userguide/). Please use this > space to post request/suggestions/error tickets if you have any. Karsten, et al., You may want to m ove this under docs/userguide, as with our other documentation. This does two things -- it keeps our documentation together on the git.fedorahosted.org index, and it also alerts the Infrastructure team that it's part of our documentation set, in case there's some special treatment needed in the future for that set of projects. There's not much involved in doing this -- really you're just moving a directory under /srv/git/docs on the fedorahosted.org server, and then people who have checkouts need to update the .git/config file in their current clone of the repository to point to the new location to continue without interruption. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cpanceac at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 10:02:33 2008 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:02:33 +0200 Subject: Controlling NetworkManager , another paul lutus article about fedora / linux Message-ID: http://arachnoid.com/linux/NetworkManager/index.html btw, is there a better place to send this kind of info? -- Linux counter #213090 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 17:16:07 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 22:46:07 +0530 Subject: User Guide : Multimedia Message-ID: <78323d480812210916o30358ec3gc170f547314baa8b@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade wrote: >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Amani/Audio_Conversion:#Converting_Audio_and_Ripping_CDs_in_KDE > If people want to focus on a specific desktop environment, that is OK, > as long as the others get covered by $someone. > > We are also not planning any new content for the F8 guide. Just push > to publish and move on. I have updated it to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Amani/Audio_Conversion-0.9 and should be able to improve it further. In https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide/9 there is a section for 'Playing Multimedia'. I want to change that to 'Multimedia' and add a subsection for 'Audio Conversion and CD Ripping'. ...or should it be different? Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJTnvFoIK4BlImohYRApLbAJ9lJCyJIQ/HI6ObHK+ObdgM8rZciQCgoCRB hpT7NXYUMMHMcCoVwX/z8ks= =vYdb -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From danielsmw at gmail.com Sun Dec 21 18:35:58 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 13:35:58 -0500 Subject: User Guide : Multimedia In-Reply-To: <78323d480812210916o30358ec3gc170f547314baa8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480812210916o30358ec3gc170f547314baa8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > there is a section for 'Playing Multimedia'. I want to change that to > 'Multimedia' and add a subsection for 'Audio Conversion and CD > Ripping'. > ...or should it be different? There is already a little bit about music CDs in the section "Using Media", but it isn't comprehensive. I agree that there's much more to do with media than just playing it, so +1 to your idea. --Matthew From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 21 20:41:36 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 12:41:36 -0800 Subject: virt hackfest scheduling updates Message-ID: <20081221204136.GH8123@calliope.phig.org> I made some changes in the scheduled activities for the holiday virtual hackfest: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest * Moved the XML conversion of the User Guide to Thursday 1 January. There are some earlier days to do the work, but we are dependent on the actual rewrite of the User Guide. * Added a session to rewrite the User Guide for Fedora 9 on Sunday 28 December. However, this really needs to be when Matthew Daniels can lead the work, so that might move. Whenever it is happening, I'll be there to help (except for 2 Jan.) It would rock if we could get a few hours of Elizabeth Ann's time in there, too. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 21 22:21:13 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:21:13 -0800 Subject: User Guide : Multimedia In-Reply-To: <78323d480812210916o30358ec3gc170f547314baa8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480812210916o30358ec3gc170f547314baa8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081221222113.GB19379@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 10:46:07PM +0530, Mani A wrote: > In https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide/9 Be aware that the pages that are named such as User_Guide/9 are *not* the Fedora 9 User Guide. The U_G/9 are leftover from a previous conversion and need to be moved to Archive/User_Guide/9/${Foo}. The content you want to look at adding to for F9 is here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide All the pages have the format [[User_Guide-Chapter_Name]]. Matthew -- it seems crazy :D, but we might want to move all those pages yet another time, to include the space '_-_' in between the guide name and the chapter name. That seems like a good convention to follow all over. I added a set here about it: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_structure#End-user_focused_pages - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 21 22:21:44 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:21:44 -0800 Subject: Fedora User Guide In-Reply-To: <1229558954.4968.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <17cd57cf0812171442p6c81a83xe3d53a074755d339@mail.gmail.com> <1229558954.4968.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081221222144.GC19379@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 12:09:14AM +0000, N. James Bridge wrote: > On Wed, 2008-12-17 at 17:42 -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: > > Fedora User Guide Update > > ======================== > > > > The user guide for Fedora 8 has been hidden within the > > FedoraProject.org wiki for some time now. It has finally been cleaned > > up and placed neatly in its own page. We have also added a User Guide > > category under which future UGs should be located. > Well, thank you, but it does appear a bit basic. Most apps come with > documentation but some things really do need explaining - like sound. > The Fedora desktop menus provide a volume control for ALSA (and OSS) and > another one for PA. There is also a Sound Preferences window, the first > tab of which bears little resemblance to what is described in the help > file. Some of this stuff one can figure out by trial and error and > playback seems to work reliably but recording is a different matter. Thanks for the feedback. As it happens, we are working on finishing the Fedora 9 User Guide before the year's end, and there is still time to add features such as explaining sound controls. This is a great opportunity for someone who understands this to help contribute to the User Guide. You can join us during the holiday virtual hackfest ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest#Rewrite_User_Guide_to_Fedora_9 ... and/or take a chapter to work on directly on your own time ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_tasks If you haven't joined the Docs project, just send a self-introduction and let us know what you want to work on ... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Join#Signing_Up Cheers! - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 21 22:26:53 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:26:53 -0800 Subject: Virtual Hackfest Schedule to be finalized! In-Reply-To: <37767.207.168.47.20.1229637251.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <1229625752.3323.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081218212152.GF30687@calliope.phig.org> <37767.207.168.47.20.1229637251.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: <20081221222653.GD19379@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 04:54:11PM -0500, Betty Harvey wrote: > Later in the week will actually work better for me since I just > decided to visit family in Mississippi December 26-29. How does > the 31st sound? (Sorry, thought I'd replied to this.) Thanks, I moved this to 31 December. > I am going to do some test work on getting the documents out of WIKI > and start writing the conversion routines. I am hoping that XSLT will > get us all the way there but if not I use Omnimark for preprocessing > (sorry don't do perl or awk or sed very well). Understood about the other languages; if we get a set of specific tasks we want accomplished, we have many fellow Fedorans with Python skills who will help us. We cannot use Omnimark for the Docs Project work, primarily because it isn't open source, so cannot be installed and used by other project members to duplicate work, etc. I'll see if Ricky Zhou is available to help us with any post-processing. Have you had a chance to try 'mw-render' to get XML from wiki pages? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 21 22:31:13 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:31:13 -0800 Subject: Todo for F9 User Guide In-Reply-To: <79699D32-BD8D-4698-B58C-AF13B30ADADF@gmail.com> References: <79699D32-BD8D-4698-B58C-AF13B30ADADF@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081221223113.GE19379@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 03:50:37PM -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: > take a look at Eawest's revision of > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide-Financial_Software for a good > example of the style we're looking for. Elizabeth Ann's explanation of what she intended with that rewrite: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-October/msg00037.html Figure a few hours per chapter to rewrite for that style. The formula is something like: 1 hour per printed page to rewrite 30 minutes per printed page to update technical details 'Course, I could be off with that; ccurran may chime in with better numbers, I hope. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 21 22:33:21 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:33:21 -0800 Subject: Todo for F9 User Guide In-Reply-To: <20081221000036.GA17136@localhost.localdomain> References: <79699D32-BD8D-4698-B58C-AF13B30ADADF@gmail.com> <20081221000036.GA17136@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20081221223321.GF19379@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 07:00:44PM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 03:50:37PM -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: > > PS: Karsten has been kind enough to set up a User Guide project on > > fedorahosted.org (https://fedorahosted.org/userguide/). Please use this > > space to post request/suggestions/error tickets if you have any. > > Karsten, et al., > > You may want to m ove this under docs/userguide, as with our other > documentation. This does two things -- it keeps our documentation > together on the git.fedorahosted.org index, and it also alerts the > Infrastructure team that it's part of our documentation set, in case > there's some special treatment needed in the future for that set of > projects. That was my mistake, my first project setting up. It also didn't quite get the name I requested, 'user-guide', to match our other schemes. > There's not much involved in doing this -- really you're just moving a > directory under /srv/git/docs on the fedorahosted.org server, and then > people who have checkouts need to update the .git/config file in their > current clone of the repository to point to the new location to > continue without interruption. I'll go back to the ticket and talk with jstanley about that, see if we can get the move and rename. I don't *think* there is anything in the repo yet, but I'll check. I haven't put anything in, fwiw. It's not pointing at f-docs-commits yet. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 21 22:39:25 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:39:25 -0800 Subject: Controlling NetworkManager , another paul lutus article about fedora / linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081221223925.GG19379@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:02:33PM +0200, cornel panceac wrote: > http://arachnoid.com/linux/NetworkManager/index.html > > btw, is there a better place to send this kind of info? It depends on what your goal is. :) For example, I don't see a license for that content, and it would need to be 100% free and open for us to use and adapt it for Fedora Docs guides we write. (Even then I'm not sure where it works as a source; perhaps in an administration/deployment guide?) As something useful, it could be linked from a wiki page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/NetworkManager#Further_Information Best then is for you to put the link on the wiki directly. Another option is to link to it from a useful guide, such as an administration guide, as a useful third-party resource. Thanks for working to get good content spread around. :) - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 21 22:45:36 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 14:45:36 -0800 Subject: virt hackfest scheduling updates In-Reply-To: <20081221204136.GH8123@calliope.phig.org> References: <20081221204136.GH8123@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20081221224536.GH19379@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:41:36PM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > I made some changes in the scheduled activities for the holiday > virtual hackfest: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest > > * Moved the XML conversion of the User Guide to Thursday 1 January. > There are some earlier days to do the work, but we are dependent on > the actual rewrite of the User Guide. After writing this I read Betty's email suggesting 31 December, so I moved this task to that day instead. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From harvey at eccnet.com Sun Dec 21 22:59:39 2008 From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 17:59:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: Virtual Hackfest Schedule to be finalized! In-Reply-To: <20081221222653.GD19379@calliope.phig.org> References: <1229625752.3323.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081218212152.GF30687@calliope.phig.org> <37767.207.168.47.20.1229637251.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <20081221222653.GD19379@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <53479.207.168.47.25.1229900379.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> > > I'll see if Ricky Zhou is available to help us with any > post-processing. Have you had a chance to try 'mw-render' to get XML > from wiki pages? I have installed mw-render but I haven't been able to find enough documentation to tell me how to extract articles. The users guide is somewhat cryptic. Betty > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener > http://quaid.fedorapeople.org > AD0E0C41 > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 21 23:27:17 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 15:27:17 -0800 Subject: Virtual Hackfest Schedule to be finalized! In-Reply-To: <53479.207.168.47.25.1229900379.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <1229625752.3323.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081218212152.GF30687@calliope.phig.org> <37767.207.168.47.20.1229637251.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <20081221222653.GD19379@calliope.phig.org> <53479.207.168.47.25.1229900379.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: <20081221232717.GJ19379@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 05:59:39PM -0500, Betty Harvey wrote: > > > > > > > I'll see if Ricky Zhou is available to help us with any > > post-processing. Have you had a chance to try 'mw-render' to get XML > > from wiki pages? > > I have installed mw-render but I haven't been able to find enough > documentation to tell me how to extract articles. The users guide > is somewhat cryptic. Yes, I had help the first time. :) https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kwade/Post-processing_wiki2xml_results I fixed the command example to be visible on screen. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From harvey at eccnet.com Mon Dec 22 00:39:14 2008 From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey) Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2008 19:39:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: XML Conversion was Re: Virtual Hackfest Schedule to be finalized! In-Reply-To: <20081221232717.GJ19379@calliope.phig.org> References: <1229625752.3323.24.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20081218212152.GF30687@calliope.phig.org> <37767.207.168.47.20.1229637251.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <20081221222653.GD19379@calliope.phig.org> <53479.207.168.47.25.1229900379.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> <20081221232717.GJ19379@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <2817.207.168.47.25.1229906354.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> > > Yes, I had help the first time. :) > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kwade/Post-processing_wiki2xml_results > > I fixed the command example to be visible on screen. > > - Karsten > -- That helped!!! After installing lxml I was able to download F8 User Guide. I am going to use it for my initial test and we should be ready to go once the Users Guide is ready. The conversion looks like it is going to be pretty straight-forward and can be done purely with XSLT. I am impressed how well the export did. There are parsing errors but compared to other extractions I have seen - not bad. Betty /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Dec 23 04:52:44 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2008 23:52:44 -0500 Subject: Security Guide on docs.fp.o Message-ID: <49506E9C.7090600@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Quaid helped me get the html version of the Linux Security Guide up on docs.fp.o[1] earlier today. We are still working out a few quirks (like the css issue you'll see when visiting the page) but it is up there. Please take a peek at it and provide any feedback you might have. I'm going to work on a few things that I know need to be fixed and plan to do another release next weekend. In the mean time any feedback would be great so we can get this document squared away. There are also other forms of the guide on my Fedora People[2] site that you can play with. Have a fun and safe holiday! [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/security-guide/ [2] http://sparks.fedorapeople.org/ Thanks, Eric Christensen E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org GPG Key: D74908ED -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklQbpoACgkQL5V8yddJCO0wWwCdFyElFsF9thzdeR5iJsELLIRg V0YAn01TUpj+u/pFLUEndo9W6fH3BZB+ =eqY0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Tue Dec 23 21:09:15 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 16:09:15 -0500 Subject: Schedule hackfest Message-ID: <20081223210915.GA4736@localhost.localdomain> Hello Artwork, Docs, L10n, Marketing, and Websites teams! First, I hope you all have a happy holiday season, and enjoy some time with friends, family, and loved ones. We've had a really big year in Fedora and I am so incredibly proud to have worked with all of you each day. We've pushed out two incredibly great releases of Fedora this year, Fedora 9 and 10, each stronger than the one before. As we are now deeply into the Fedora 11 development cycle, I've been thinking we really all want to know the various team interdependencies before we get to the Alpha phase of the release. If one team has a particular deadline, and that requires input from some other team to complete, we want to know that. In the best possible world, each team will be producing what its partner needs in plenty of time for that partner team to work effectively, and so on down the line. We've had release day planning meetings over the last couple of releases which have helped, I think, quite a bit to ensure people have what they need from other groups. We have an opportunity to make this process work even more smoothly, and driven more by each team, if we can figure out the very broad tasks that each team has to complete for a release, and map them out on the release schedule. Some of the teams receiving this message have done preliminary (or maybe even more) work on the schedule already, which is fantastic. I think FUDCon gives us a chance to bring together people from most of your teams to flesh that work out where it's helpful. I don't believe we need to "finish" the schedule, and that might be a hazy goal anyway. We'll probably end up finding places where we can refine it after this release to do even better for Fedora 12. But each iteration brings us something that we can use to help releases go more smoothly. Many of us are volunteers, and we all still want to know, first and foremost, that our work is important, and valued in Fedora. The work we do is far more important than simply hitting a date on a calendar. But we also all want to know that we are helping our fellow community members, and that each of us is doing our best to help Fedora move forward as a project. I've asked John Poelstra to help me put together a hackfest at FUDCon Boston 2009, bringing together people from each of your teams to talk through these interdependencies and record them. The result, I believe, will make each succeeding release easier, more efficient, and more enjoyable. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Dec 23 21:50:15 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 13:50:15 -0800 Subject: Security Guide on docs.fp.o In-Reply-To: <49506E9C.7090600@christensenplace.us> References: <49506E9C.7090600@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <49515D17.3010900@redhat.com> Eric Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Quaid helped me get the html version of the Linux Security Guide up on > docs.fp.o[1] earlier today. We are still working out a few quirks (like > the css issue you'll see when visiting the page) but it is up there. > > Please take a peek at it and provide any feedback you might have. I'm > going to work on a few things that I know need to be fixed and plan to > do another release next weekend. In the mean time any feedback would be > great so we can get this document squared away. > > There are also other forms of the guide on my Fedora People[2] site that > you can play with. > > Have a fun and safe holiday! > > [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/security-guide/ > [2] http://sparks.fedorapeople.org/ > This is excellent. How about a section on implementing OpenVPN which I believe we use in our infrastructure? John From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Dec 23 22:18:11 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2008 17:18:11 -0500 Subject: Security Guide on docs.fp.o In-Reply-To: <49515D17.3010900@redhat.com> References: <49506E9C.7090600@christensenplace.us> <49515D17.3010900@redhat.com> Message-ID: <495163A3.8050405@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 John, Well, I have just installed OpenVPN here at my house and at a friend's house so I do have some notes. I think that would be an excellent project. - -Eric John Poelstra wrote: > Eric Christensen wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Quaid helped me get the html version of the Linux Security Guide up on >> docs.fp.o[1] earlier today. We are still working out a few quirks (like >> the css issue you'll see when visiting the page) but it is up there. >> >> Please take a peek at it and provide any feedback you might have. I'm >> going to work on a few things that I know need to be fixed and plan to >> do another release next weekend. In the mean time any feedback would be >> great so we can get this document squared away. >> >> There are also other forms of the guide on my Fedora People[2] site that >> you can play with. >> >> Have a fun and safe holiday! >> >> [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/security-guide/ >> [2] http://sparks.fedorapeople.org/ >> > > This is excellent. How about a section on implementing OpenVPN which I > believe we use in our infrastructure? > > John > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklRY6EACgkQL5V8yddJCO0H/wCeJ0kBKSG85tbNCkB+1CgZwVt7 3UMAn0DFV3bfp5egmk4SYiEZsV1ZA7fD =+Fxi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Dec 24 18:54:55 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 25 Dec 2008 00:24:55 +0530 Subject: Controlling NetworkManager , another paul lutus article about fedora / linux In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4952857F.7010108@fedoraproject.org> cornel panceac wrote: > http://arachnoid.com/linux/NetworkManager/index.html > > btw, is there a better place to send this kind of info? This is fine. You might consider sending it off to fedora-list as well. It would be great if you could participate in the docs project to integrate the content into desktop user's guide as well. Thanks. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Wed Dec 24 19:29:54 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 11:29:54 -0800 Subject: no meeting today Message-ID: <20081224192954.GE24919@calliope.phig.org> Sorry, forgot to cancel the meeting today. Many distractions with various holidays, and especially today and tomorrow are hard ones to get attention of people. :) Cheers all, see you all starting this weekend: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From marcferguson at gmail.com Wed Dec 24 19:36:23 2008 From: marcferguson at gmail.com (Marc Ferguson) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:36:23 -0500 Subject: Looking for Ideas on a User-friendly Join Process Message-ID: Hi, My name is Marc Ferguson. I recently joined the websites group for Fedora Project and I've been assigned to help figure out a very universal and user-friendly way to tweak http://fedoraproject.org/en/join-fedora. Can you please respond to this thread and let us know what your process is for people to join your group. In the end we want to make sure we're all "on the same page" and that the joining process is much easier, thus increasing the contributors to the project. Thanks. -- *Marc F.* www.fergytech.com "..Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come.." -Rev1:4 "When life gives me lemons... I make Linuxaide!" -Marc F. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Wed Dec 24 19:49:14 2008 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Wed, 24 Dec 2008 14:49:14 -0500 Subject: Looking for Ideas on a User-friendly Join Process In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 2:36 PM, Marc Ferguson wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Marc Ferguson. I recently joined the websites group for Fedora > Project and I've been assigned to help figure out a very universal and > user-friendly way to tweak http://fedoraproject.org/en/join-fedora. Can you > please respond to this thread and let us know what your process is for > people to join your group. In the end we want to make sure we're all "on > the same page" and that the joining process is much easier, thus increasing > the contributors to the project. Thanks. > > -- > Marc F. > > www.fergytech.com > > "..Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come.." > -Rev1:4 > "When life gives me lemons... I make Linuxaide!" -Marc F. > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Hi Marc, How interesting, John Poelstra and I were discussing the join page yesterday. In general I really like the simplicity One of my complaints is how high the bar is set - I'll pick on docs for a minute - the listing there is for a content writer. That's despite the fact that virtually none of the new contributor tasks are content generating. The initial tasks are designed to get you familiar with processes and Fedora, such as wiki Gardening, fact checking documents. That said, I don't know that I have a solution that allows you to present the entry level work as simply as what's presented there. Another thing is that functions like QA and BugTriage aren't really represented. Admittedly they are listed under the OS Developer section, but how many non-OS Developers are going to choose that to see that Bug Triaging is an option. There are a number of projects within Fedora that aren't prominently featured. As I said, this is just my impression - I have no solutions to offer up. From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Fri Dec 26 15:21:36 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 20:51:36 +0530 Subject: User-Guide Changes Message-ID: <78323d480812260721g60b8aa81k327c3d06a07622e0@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Added modified version of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Amani/Audio_Conversion-0.9: to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Multimedia/CONVERTING_AUDIO_and_RIPPING_CDs Orphaned Pages: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CONVERTING_AUDIO_and_RIPPING_CDs https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide-Playing_Multimedia_(Music_%26_Video) I changed the 'Playing_Multimedia' section to 'Multimedia' Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJVPiBoIK4BlImohYRAvzxAJ9Bw6rX2sdnGQy9afm6hlGbQBJwxQCfcqF2 2SyKRZMOiooxKVHIAvAEP5I= =Y843 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ianweller at gmail.com Sat Dec 27 04:44:20 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 22:44:20 -0600 Subject: vacationing Message-ID: <20081227044420.GA19563@gmail.com> I'll be without Internet until Tuesday the 30th. Here's to MW 1.13.3 not exploding :) -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Dec 27 07:49:38 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 26 Dec 2008 23:49:38 -0800 Subject: Looking for Ideas on a User-friendly Join Process In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081227074938.GF24919@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 02:49:14PM -0500, David Nalley wrote: > > One of my complaints is how high the bar is set - I'll pick on docs > for a minute - the listing there is for a content writer. That's > despite the fact that virtually none of the new contributor tasks are > content generating. The initial tasks are designed to get you familiar > with processes and Fedora, such as wiki Gardening, fact checking > documents. > > That said, I don't know that I have a solution that allows you to > present the entry level work as simply as what's presented there. One idea we've discussed is grabbing interests and skills from people (which get associated with their user account), and pairing those up with needs from various sub-projects. This requires the sub-projects to thing more deeply about skills and interests that tie to their areas. It also requires some automagic, maybe something a little wizard like to grab and compare skills and interests. > Another thing is that functions like QA and BugTriage aren't really > represented. Admittedly they are listed under the OS Developer > section, but how many non-OS Developers are going to choose that to > see that Bug Triaging is an option. There are a number of projects > within Fedora that aren't prominently featured. Agreed, the categories under wiki/Join (for example) are pretty old by now; we've added more subtleties to the Project since then. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Dec 27 08:40:41 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 00:40:41 -0800 Subject: User-Guide Changes In-Reply-To: <78323d480812260721g60b8aa81k327c3d06a07622e0@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480812260721g60b8aa81k327c3d06a07622e0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20081227084040.GG24919@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 08:51:36PM +0530, Mani A wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > > Added modified version of > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Amani/Audio_Conversion-0.9: to > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Multimedia/CONVERTING_AUDIO_and_RIPPING_CDs > > > Orphaned Pages: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CONVERTING_AUDIO_and_RIPPING_CDs > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide-Playing_Multimedia_(Music_%26_Video) > > I changed the 'Playing_Multimedia' section to 'Multimedia' It looks like we have two different activities here, playing multimedia and producing multimedia. Maybe we don't want to force it all under one chapter? We also now have two duplicate pages: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Multimedia https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Playing_Multimedia There may have been some value in the more descriptive "Playing Multimeda (Music & Video)". Perhaps the multimedia production (conversion, ripping) are one chapter, and playing multimedia are another? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sat Dec 27 22:39:35 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 04:09:35 +0530 Subject: User-Guide Changes Message-ID: <78323d480812271439x2e92fdb3vb4f68786bbd35d6f@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten Wade wrote: > We also now have two duplicate pages: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Multimedia trashed > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Playing_Multimedia rectified (link fixed) User_Guide_Playing_Multimedia User_Guide_Multimedia_Production > > There may have been some value in the more descriptive "Playing > Multimeda (Music & Video)". > > Perhaps the multimedia production (conversion, ripping) are one chapter, > and playing multimedia are another? Yes, that seems to be a good idea. I have made the changes. Other broken pages have been trashed. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJVrBaoIK4BlImohYRAi88AJ9XT2FUYKV58xW9knF4RV1+joHjSACcC4Em cHAIGE9AowHfKbhEdqOl+o0= =s/Sj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 28 01:42:41 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 17:42:41 -0800 Subject: starting Installation Guide conversion to Publican virt hackfest Message-ID: <20081228014241.GH24919@calliope.phig.org> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Holiday_Virtual_Hackfest#Convert_Installation_Guide_to_Publican_and_document_the_process Getting started a little ahead of schedule but I won't hit this in ernest until after 0400 UTC. -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Sun Dec 28 06:00:05 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2008 22:00:05 -0800 Subject: Looking for Ideas on a User-friendly Join Process In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <495715E5.5070801@redhat.com> Marc Ferguson wrote: > Hi, > > My name is Marc Ferguson. I recently joined the websites group for > Fedora Project and I've been assigned to help figure out a very > universal and user-friendly way to tweak > http://fedoraproject.org/en/join-fedora. Can you please respond to this > thread and let us know what your process is for people to join your > group. In the end we want to make sure we're all "on the same page" and > that the joining process is much easier, thus increasing the > contributors to the project. Thanks. > In addition to adding more information and I'd also suggest looking at the "join" pages for other projects for ideas too, particularly finding the best way to display the information. http://www.mandriva.com/en/community/contribute http://www.ubuntu.com/community/participate http://en.opensuse.org/How_to_Participate John From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Sun Dec 28 13:41:12 2008 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 15:41:12 +0200 Subject: Man page coverage Message-ID: <1230471677.3229.185.camel@beta.local> I'm really sorry I'm so late on all of this, but just after Karsten admitted me to the Docs project, I caught a fever, cough, indigestion - the whole nine yards. Soon after I recovered, the submarine cables connecting Egypt (where I am for a few months) were cut, so we were having very unreliable Internet service for the following weekend. Anyway, excuses aside, the task I was hoping to tackle involved establishing a sub-project to do complete man-page coverage of existing packages & applications within Fedora. The discussion started over on the fedora-devel list, and it seemed that I was the most enthusiastic about undertaking the project, so that's what I'd like to propose, but here within the Docs project. I outlined a few general steps, and you can read up here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-December/msg00023.html To save you a trip, I'll repost the steps here: 1) Identify which packages are missing man pages altogether in Fedora -- these should get top priority -- we can see if Debian or other projects already have some -- acceptable-licensing-pending, of course 2) Identify which packages having sub-par man pages -- after fulfilling 1), this should be the next priority -- similar methodology to 1), find ones that already exist first 3) Develop a "stub" template for packages that have no man pages available -- at least we can include command-line arguments, authorship, web links for more info, etc. -- at first this isn't much better than -h/--help, but we can at least let it be a start 4) Once we have all of this information prepared, then we can get to work on forming a project around this group, preparing a page in the wiki with the packages that need man pages or whose man pages need improvement, etc. 5) ??? 6) Profit! So, right now, I'm very green when it comes to working on open-source projects. I've been using Fedora for a while, but I still can be somewhat ignorant when it comes to doing some things. I'm a PHP developer by trade, so I'm not clueless, but you get my point. What I could use help with from the more experienced would be, for example, a way to identify the existence of man pages for packages. For example, is it enough to have a single man page for a package, or do we want a man page for every executable file? I'm willing to do a fair share of the work, but I also hope some others are willing to help out where they can as well. ;) Okay, that's enough for one e-mail. I just wanted to get the ball rolling and get started on some of these steps, and see what else anyone else would like to share in terms of ideas. From danielsmw at gmail.com Sun Dec 28 17:31:22 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 12:31:22 -0500 Subject: Hackfest: User Guide Updating Message-ID: Good afternoon, everyone, Today's hackfest topic is scheduled for updated the the User Guide to F9 status so it can be XMLified in a few days by Betty. It really just needs to be cleaned up, fact checked, and updated on some of the topics that changed with the F9 release (especially the update to packagekit). As a result of bad planning on my part, I can't be online consistently until about 6 or 7 EST, but I'm going to do my best to be online sporadically until then and should be able to be online for a solid few hours somewhere between 2 and 6 EST. If you get a chance today, please stop by https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_tasks and do what you can. Some people have already been making some good changes in the past few days, so we're on our way there. If you have any questions, just shoot me an email or catch me in IRC whenever I am online. - Matthew PS: Hope everyone had a great holiday. From kwade at redhat.com Sun Dec 28 17:52:34 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 2008 09:52:34 -0800 Subject: Hackfest: User Guide Updating In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20081228175234.GI24919@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, Dec 28, 2008 at 12:31:22PM -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: > Good afternoon, everyone, > > Today's hackfest topic is scheduled for updated the the User Guide to F9 > status so it can be XMLified in a few days by Betty. It really just > needs to be cleaned up, fact checked, and updated on some of the topics > that changed with the F9 release (especially the update to packagekit). I also note that we have a goal (ideally) of rewriting each chapter to follow the pattern established in the Financial_Software chapter. One of the problems we've had so far have been inconsistent writing and organization, which is what this task helps. So, there is a column for (re)writing here: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_tasks - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Mon Dec 29 15:50:06 2008 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:20:06 +0530 Subject: Man page coverage Message-ID: <78323d480812290750l1bae2006h3f8c63c3b917496b@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Basil Mohamed Gohar wrote: > 1) Identify which packages are missing man pages altogether in Fedora > 2) Identify which packages having sub-par man pages If we require that each man page should contain a few examples of usage, then we will find a lot more. Many KDE applications lack proper man pages. Maybe #man for those should call #khelpcenter help:/ or offer to install them (in case they are missing). OR do we consider the reverse conversion 2man??. Again there is the kde developer documentation (can be handled as well with man 1,2,...) > What I could use help with from the more experienced would be, for > example, a way to identify the existence of man pages for packages. For > example, is it enough to have a single man page for a package, or do we > want a man page for every executable file? Ideally references should be complete and every executable covered. Take k3b for example. Its manual (GUI or CLI) does not get dynamically updated with the addition of executables (relevant ones). Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFJWPN6oIK4BlImohYRAo8jAJoCPwZL6YLY/4zwjzess86W83FJZACfVsiP 2rT2apgcXq5+iWKPhN5dxp0= =R/y0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Mon Dec 29 17:34:30 2008 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2008 19:34:30 +0200 Subject: Man page coverage In-Reply-To: <78323d480812290750l1bae2006h3f8c63c3b917496b@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480812290750l1bae2006h3f8c63c3b917496b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1230572076.3229.229.camel@beta.local> On Mon, 2008-12-29 at 21:20 +0530, Mani A wrote: > Basil Mohamed Gohar wrote: > > 1) Identify which packages are missing man pages altogether in > Fedora > > 2) Identify which packages having sub-par man pages > > If we require that each man page should contain a few examples of > usage, then we will find a lot more. > > Many KDE applications lack proper man pages. Maybe #man for those > should call > #khelpcenter help:/ or offer to install them (in case they are > missing). OR do we consider the reverse conversion 2man??. Again there > is the kde developer documentation (can be handled as well with man > 1,2,...) > > > What I could use help with from the more experienced would be, for > > example, a way to identify the existence of man pages for packages. > For > > example, is it enough to have a single man page for a package, or do > we > > want a man page for every executable file? > > Ideally references should be complete and every executable covered. > > Take k3b for example. Its manual (GUI or CLI) does not get dynamically > updated with the addition of executables (relevant ones). Thanks for the interest & info! I tend to agree that every executable as well as package (since that is what some people may look for) should have a man page, even if it is just a stub or refers to another. In the case of KDE apps, if there does exist better documentation coverage via another method, then we can extract content from there, assuming it is licensed appropriately - I think most KDE apps are GPL, so I imagine that or something compatible covers the documentation they come with, as well. I think examples of usage aren't necessary for coverage, but I think it'd be great to identify man pages for level of helpfulness - for example, we can have a rough checklist: 1. Is the application or package given any kind of explanation? 2. Are all command-line arguments explained? 3. Are common caveats included? 4. Is authorship mentioned and/or a place to report bugs? 5. Are some examples of usage provided? I'm sure this list could be better, this is just what I could think of off the top of my head. The idea of having complete man page coverage is to provide a universal method for reference, upon which we can build other forms of documentation, including Yelp or khelpcenter or web-based documentation. This may go as far as having DocBook sources for original documentation with man pages as a target (ala Publican, if such a feature gets implemented). There are all kinds of ideas that have been floated, but I think the man page coverage is a great way to grab some low-hanging fruit, since all that content would be licensed freely in the end, and bring about the most benefit, both for Fedora, upstream, as well as other distributions. From josemanimala at gmail.com Tue Dec 30 14:03:22 2008 From: josemanimala at gmail.com (josemanimala at gmail.com) Date: 30 Dec 2008 14:03:22 -0000 Subject: Invitation from josemanimala@gmail.com Message-ID: <20081230140322.8414.qmail@jaagore.com> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Dec 30 23:42:21 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2008 18:42:21 -0500 Subject: Spark's New Crypto Message-ID: <495AB1DD.2050604@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Tis the season for new crypto... - -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) mQGhBElaqs8RBADPMQoF/FANHsIhKdxwHmFqN1zeV7BuFURyKJJlbamfn6/uMRvy SSR1ydXbVTzXZ//5ihjPtBfT/nbiqhSpl1MeCdZFudM+FYMrBImYpuHTlNZJf04X QcNcm681Wa+huuoJ4TSsCbz52T2jnsqB8jeY9iVU0wpGNtiYmNtXkXmHmwCg04KO ViiFih5LF+YlmBTFeNBxHmcEAMC4vf+5kfip6fo/mPPHCQAz+Uz2AMoOQnhi5xtB /UGsghzKd+0riaDrdHWv45239mb7AtJWtQAIFzL3/AQwWQBkJaJFGrjRi40sy6wz aftZ0E5Pc96biISeqsZpqODiP2sGhJjneIBo8if3/K2DXatN04Yo77mKw44gLNMm O5bVA/d1y0E1BYLR9RXPEoeFNSzRmgmZX39gLOO4ol3ahkrxNKd/HVfXry/wFgN/ dqTqIwG2w/H0rSVIKaZzJb21eTCQv2OoBvA0zmZSyxMQSASQGOc2ffFNIQ9wC//j zaX6drNiembLQFiedfRuiD/zOIL2ve4lJG/QU9xMCHG1AUd9tDJFcmljIEhhcmxh biBDaHJpc3RlbnNlbiA8ZXJpY0BjaHJpc3RlbnNlbnBsYWNlLnVzPohmBBMRAgAm BQJJWqrPAhsDBQkB4oUABgsJCAcDAgQVAggDBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQfQTSQL0M FMG7LwCfbCBeckFkuXML+kz1adUwyuSYY4QAniUEUGFs/226f7ODo1JUSbppHzM0 tEpFcmljIEhhcmxhbiBDaHJpc3RlbnNlbiwgVzRPVE4gKEFtYXRldXIgUmFkaW8p IDxyYWRpb0BjaHJpc3RlbnNlbnBsYWNlLnVzPohmBBMRAgAmBQJJWqz4AhsDBQkB 4oUABgsJCAcDAgQVAggDBBYCAwECHgECF4AACgkQfQTSQL0MFMGl9gCeKlPQiGEq dO9HBx/5myNNrgwS1G8AoJV8t20qLMTvxrNJs2cTAIYCOUnHtENFcmljIEhhcmxh biBDaHJpc3RlbnNlbiwgTk5OMEhLRCAoTmF2eSBNQVJTKSA8bm5uMGhrZEBuYXZ5 bWFycy5vcmc+iGYEExECACYFAklarSMCGwMFCQHihQAGCwkIBwMCBBUCCAMEFgID AQIeAQIXgAAKCRB9BNJAvQwUwdQBAJ4yy1C1rL8rJ+pyKjsM662E09xX3wCfV6GA hz8wsncuXwPDZGTTbJZlbTm0V0VyaWMgSGFybGFuIENocmlzdGVuc2VuIChOZXdw b3J0IERpc3RyaWN0IFNLWVdBUk4gV2VibWFzdGVyKSA8d2VibWFzdGVyQG1oeHNr eXdhcm4ub3JnPohmBBMRAgAmBQJJWq1WAhsDBQkB4oUABgsJCAcDAgQVAggDBBYC AwECHgECF4AACgkQfQTSQL0MFMHn2gCfdv9ZkChOuxXJ5p5W8S2cZbW5CuYAoIHE CK0xql6IgCN7XRFKxMraLPnRtDRFcmljICJTcGFya3MiIENocmlzdGVuc2VuIDxz cGFya3NAZmVkb3JhcHJvamVjdC5vcmc+iGYEExECACYFAklarZwCGwMFCQHihQAG CwkIBwMCBBUCCAMEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRB9BNJAvQwUwas8AJ4iQaRUTkU4kdyX JmJ0bmuD+DwpywCeNCFTJW+CsoeAp2difp1C6hse/Nm5Ag0ESVqqzxAIAKpo028j QVVgQOMQFoJq1ISaI8tD9fBRTHb5VzDjf0cD9+yO4va0frIuoFWmNmEWP0Ie/BLK pJApXuNl9hfPYmX0z+8R3SAnJ11Frk+q4BBjNave866xwxrfw2es+ClR3WhZNDZ2 Z37wpva5WRuqC5BxXLrktI4w4SrF8sdnz1p/+DNQFruMdFrvDRhl/AzRv6nZPRjO tt5EJTA48Zm5FSSuiuPw8DmOWjkYwct2c3wUpOkmPCmF9ZAspoDyKrxH1GXftwza x4RUO4U+eF4mTKn1R1MbDKoVKOsar+uDF5zgfxPyAeFoupmHw1U+fEE4400owM+F CzMfFfKT5NFfaj8AAwUH/RTuWsjUH4MYcWZRLnTVkhufOuAZztPPBttWSHXrHHBY qEQoNTwbzhtGhqqgR9KF0q4f0KMK1ap0pqVuvYq67+7mXMsSJsh4rXSk21QTXjil XbkRMSV8FWjhktPtuoExI1YrSfKRkQOCPXhRHP/T6IwptImGcNkNgNn9bsc7X5VT OMTEzeG66m2nK1inatvAakkId/aNPUp5VcM3UzbALEurj/dJ9qMojvTiUPr8dvnp 9c+5xzdaJJdPs1sdyrAK7JJS2zE08sPgkBlPg/bCmVrwqJWexNuEfH1UjZmMl8eQ QONFqmmwlVa037pXfSUv/fuf1t8/JyM+zChX6NyMg+uITwQYEQIADwUCSVqqzwIb DAUJAeKFAAAKCRB9BNJAvQwUwXfJAJ9iZEbcUiE/EIt2IdPQSuzVAk7UHgCePDkX iG4EEcFcnQREDu2pDfJUnKU= =ee1u - -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAklasdcACgkQfQTSQL0MFMHIcwCdFJx33CRmsdKS43+QWcPy86rn oKIAoJonxcTZSz4HI31Jl537CVzj3zcx =O3mv -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From danielsmw at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 05:35:32 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 00:35:32 -0500 Subject: December 31st Hackfest Prep Message-ID: <736AB537-615E-430E-9A25-87105D1023E4@gmail.com> According to the Hackfest page, December 31st is the scheduled day for the conversion for the F9 User Guide to XML. The transition to F9 for the User Guide in wiki form isn't totally done yet, but I'll be working on it tonight and hope to stay ahead of the tide tomorrow while they convert it. If anyone can let me know when we plan to do this conversion (time of day), that would be fantastic. Also, anyone who happens to be running F9 (which I'm not) is welcome to fact check the user guide for me. :-) -Matthew From harvey at eccnet.com Wed Dec 31 13:23:44 2008 From: harvey at eccnet.com (Betty Harvey) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 08:23:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: December 31st Hackfest Prep In-Reply-To: <736AB537-615E-430E-9A25-87105D1023E4@gmail.com> References: <736AB537-615E-430E-9A25-87105D1023E4@gmail.com> Message-ID: <3490.207.168.47.25.1230729824.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> We can move the XML conversion to Friday (1/2) if that will help. I have the XSLT mostly completed. Betty > According to the Hackfest page, December 31st is the scheduled day for > the conversion for the F9 User Guide to XML. The transition to F9 for > the User Guide in wiki form isn't totally done yet, but I'll be > working on it tonight and hope to stay ahead of the tide tomorrow > while they convert it. If anyone can let me know when we plan to do > this conversion (time of day), that would be fantastic. Also, anyone > who happens to be running F9 (which I'm not) is welcome to fact check > the user guide for me. :-) > > -Matthew > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ Betty Harvey | Phone: 410-787-9200 FAX: 9830 Electronic Commerce Connection, Inc. | harvey at eccnet.com | Washington,DC SGML/XML Users Grp URL: http://www.eccnet.com | http://www.eccnet.com/xmlug/ /\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\\/\/ From danielsmw at gmail.com Wed Dec 31 15:21:39 2008 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Wed, 31 Dec 2008 10:21:39 -0500 (EST) Subject: December 31st Hackfest Prep In-Reply-To: <3490.207.168.47.25.1230729824.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> References: <736AB537-615E-430E-9A25-87105D1023E4@gmail.com> <3490.207.168.47.25.1230729824.squirrel@www.eccnet.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 31 Dec 2008, Betty Harvey wrote: > We can move the XML conversion to Friday (1/2) if that will help. > I have the XSLT mostly completed. > > Betty If we could do that, it would be a great help. I apologize for not getting my side done on time; sickness and unexpected business put it on hold for a few days. I'll make sure it's done for Friday. -Matthew