From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Jan 1 07:50:01 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2008 17:50:01 +1000 Subject: copying+pasting screen examples In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0712311335g454e3866h89834cf429b915cc@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0712302144y4f5dd116l135a89656e494b57@mail.gmail.com> <1199091322.5788.85.camel@erato.phig.org> <95f1114b0712311335g454e3866h89834cf429b915cc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0712312350q62cdb6b5te9a7a34d35ef8ad2@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 1, 2008 7:35 AM, Murray McAllister wrote: > On Dec 31, 2007 6:55 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Mon, 2007-12-31 at 15:44 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > > > > > There are double "-" characters, however these characters did not > > > appear when I copied them from vim into here :( . > > > > I'm seeing the same behavior. The original source in the markup seems > > correct, but if you copy from the edit window, you get the extra '-' > > when you paste into an editor that shows real ASCII, such as Vi or > > Emacs, one single additional '-' appears. The same occurs from the > > displayed page. > > > > Looking at the HTML generated by Moin from the wiki markup, I don't > > "see" the additional '-'. But if I copy and paste from the Firefox view > > source window, the additional '-' appears. So it's there, as a hidden > > character. > > > > Pasting from an editor that is not revealing all the ASCII in a plain > > text fashion might be the culprit. > > > > As a test, I wrote a replacement text piece in Emacs, which shows all > > the characters when in 'text-mode', and the extra '-' disappeared. I am > > saving this new version in replacement of the other, you should find > > that it works when pasted into Vim. > > > > So, blame Kate? > > > > - Karsten > > -- > > Hi Karsten, > > Thanks for working that out for me, I'll start using something else > for the wiki. I noticed there is a plug-in for jEdit that allows you > to edit wiki pages, I might give that a go and see if the problem > persists. Works fine if I use jEdit. I guess I'll use that for the examples, and will copy+paste the entire guide when finishing to make sure it all works. Thanks again. Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From k5di at zianet.com Tue Jan 1 22:52:31 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 15:52:31 -0700 Subject: jEdit Message-ID: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> I got jEdit working in a terminal but it doesn't work. If I use $ jedit file1 it comes up and a panel that does nothing comes up in the way. I tried to make a file and have tried Control-s to save it and it does not work. The instructions seem not to be for a Linux Terminal. Does anyone here know how to use jEdit? Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 01:05:20 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:05:20 +1000 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 2, 2008 8:52 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > I got jEdit working in a terminal but it doesn't work. If I use $ > jedit file1 it comes up and a panel that does nothing comes up in the > way. I tried to make a file and have tried Control-s to save it and it > does not work. > > The instructions seem not to be for a Linux Terminal. Does anyone > here know how to use jEdit? > > Karl Hey Karl, I'm very excited about jEdit, it has some amazing plug-ins. I'm not sure how you installed jedit, but this is what I did (to make sure we are sort of doing the same thing): 1. Downloaded the java installer for the stable release: http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/jedit/jedit42install.jar 2. Installed using "sudo java -jar jedit42install.jar" 3. Create a customer application launcher, with the command "jedit" When "jedit" from the command line it launches correctly. I am not sure what you mean by the panel, is it possible to provide a screenshot? When I run "jedit testing" it launches with a empty, new file named "testing". One thing I could think of that would cause you problems if you do not have java installed. On red hat enterprise linux I needed the java-1.5.0-sun package to be installed. If you can provide more details/screenshot I am sure someone will be able to help. Once you get going, I suggest you install the XInsert, XML, ErrorList, BufferList, SpellCheck, SideKick, and Console plugins (Go to Plugins- > PluginManager, select the install tab, and tick the ones you want. Make sure you are connected to the internet at this point...). To arrange these on your screen: Utilities -> Global Options. Select docking, then use the drop down list to select where you want each plug-in. Alternatively you can access them through the Plugins menu item. Let me know if you need any extra help, also posting the output of "rpm -qa | grep java" would be handy... Kind Regards, Murray. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 01:06:58 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:06:58 +1000 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0801011706o57690cdo5fdff1fa79d2595c@mail.gmail.com> Yikes, please excuse my spelling ;) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From k5di at zianet.com Wed Jan 2 02:45:12 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2008 19:45:12 -0700 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> Murray McAllister wrote: > On Jan 2, 2008 8:52 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> I got jEdit working in a terminal but it doesn't work. If I use $ >> jedit file1 it comes up and a panel that does nothing comes up in the >> way. I tried to make a file and have tried Control-s to save it and it >> does not work. >> >> The instructions seem not to be for a Linux Terminal. Does anyone >> here know how to use jEdit? >> >> Karl >> > > Hey Karl, > > I'm very excited about jEdit, it has some amazing plug-ins. I'm not > sure how you installed jedit, but this is what I did (to make sure we > are sort of doing the same thing): > > 1. Downloaded the java installer for the stable release: > http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/jedit/jedit42install.jar > 2. Installed using "sudo java -jar jedit42install.jar" > 3. Create a customer application launcher, with the command "jedit" > > When "jedit" from the command line it launches correctly. I am not > sure what you mean by the panel, is it possible to provide a > screenshot? > When I run "jedit testing" it launches with a empty, new file named "testing". > > One thing I could think of that would cause you problems if you do not > have java installed. On red hat enterprise linux I needed the > java-1.5.0-sun package to be installed. > > If you can provide more details/screenshot I am sure someone will be > able to help. Once you get going, I suggest you install the XInsert, > XML, ErrorList, BufferList, SpellCheck, SideKick, and Console plugins > (Go to Plugins- > PluginManager, select the install tab, and tick the > ones you want. Make sure you are connected to the internet at this > point...). To arrange these on your screen: Utilities -> Global > Options. Select docking, then use the drop down list to select where > you want each plug-in. Alternatively you can access them through the > Plugins menu item. > > Let me know if you need any extra help, also posting the output of > "rpm -qa | grep java" would be handy... > > Kind Regards, > > Murray. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > > Your right Murray and I will include a screen shot. That will help. And the way it seems to work is in a Terminal you type $ jedit filename and it then lets you type in what you want. But I see no panels where you can hit save file. I found where they say Control-s will save but it doesn't for me. Thus my problems. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 03:43:00 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:43:00 +1000 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0801011943y163051c5yb214077fb2f12b08@mail.gmail.com> Karl, I'll send you a screenshot of what I get off-list. Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 03:50:48 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 13:50:48 +1000 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> > Your right Murray and I will include a screen shot. That will help. > And the way it seems to work is in a Terminal you type $ jedit filename > and it then lets you type in what you want. But I see no panels where > you can hit save file. I found where they say Control-s will save but it > doesn't for me. Karl, I just had the thought that you might be typing the "$" character: $ jedit file instead of jedit file Just a thought... Cheers, Murray. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 2 11:43:07 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 03:43:07 -0800 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 13:50 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > I just had the thought that you might be typing the "$" character: One of the reasons why we don't like including the command prompt in example commands: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Writing_Example_Commands http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_US/sn-screenshots.html#ex-text-screenshot-good ^== (old and needs updating) ;-) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie Wed Jan 2 12:20:56 2008 From: tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 13:20:56 +0100 Subject: jEdit References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: Karsten Wade wrote: >> I just had the thought that you might be typing the "$" character: > > One of the reasons why we don't like including the command prompt in > example commands: Personally, I would prefer if you did include the prompt. I find that in many cases it is not clear if the command is meant to be run as root, or as user. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From k5di at zianet.com Wed Jan 2 15:37:30 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 08:37:30 -0700 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> Murray McAllister wrote: >> Your right Murray and I will include a screen shot. That will help. >> And the way it seems to work is in a Terminal you type $ jedit filename >> and it then lets you type in what you want. But I see no panels where >> you can hit save file. I found where they say Control-s will save but it >> doesn't for me. >> > > Karl, > > I just had the thought that you might be typing the "$" character: > > $ jedit file > > instead of > > jedit file > > Just a thought... > > Cheers, > > Murray. > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > > No I am in deep trouble now. I have both versions loaded and neither work. I will need to purge both and start over. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From k5di at zianet.com Wed Jan 2 19:01:02 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 12:01:02 -0700 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <477BDF6E.3000202@zianet.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 13:50 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > > >> I just had the thought that you might be typing the "$" character: >> > > One of the reasons why we don't like including the command prompt in > example commands: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Writing_Example_Commands > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_US/sn-screenshots.html#ex-text-screenshot-good > ^== (old and needs updating) > > > > ;-) - Karsten > Well, I am making the getting on jedit a worthless task. With the new version I get the wrong output, and with the earlier version I get an error as this is. thread "Basic L&F directory loader" Exception in thread "Basic L&F directory loader" java.lang.NullPointerException at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$DirectoryLoadThread.run(libgcj.so.8rh) java.lang.NullPointerException at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$DirectoryLoadThread.run(libgcj.so.8rh) java.lang.NullPointerException at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$DirectoryLoadThread.run(libgcj.so.8rh) java.lang.NullPointerException at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$DirectoryLoadThread.run(libgcj.so.8rh) java.lang.NullPointerException at javax.swing.plaf.basic.BasicDirectoryModel$DirectoryLoadThread.run(libgcj.so.8rh) Installing jedit-program Installing jedit-macros Installing jedit-api GC Warning: Repeated allocation of very large block (appr. size 1802240): May lead to memory leak and poor performance. Performing task unix-script Performing task unix-man [root at k5di Desktop]# This is from loading version 4.2 and the GC Warning is repeated every time I try to use it. And of course I have no idea how to fix this. Where did very large block come from I wonder? Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 2 19:05:47 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 11:05:47 -0800 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1199300747.8565.47.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 13:20 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: > Personally, I would prefer if you did include the prompt. > I find that in many cases it is not clear if the command is meant > to be run as root, or as user. This is why commands are *never* run "as root" and the 'su -c' option is used: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Writing_Example_Commands There is method to this madness, I assure you. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie Wed Jan 2 21:43:37 2008 From: tim at birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie (Timothy Murphy) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 22:43:37 +0100 Subject: jEdit References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199300747.8565.47.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: Karsten Wade wrote: >> Personally, I would prefer if you did include the prompt. >> I find that in many cases it is not clear if the command is meant >> to be run as root, or as user. > > This is why commands are *never* run "as root" and the 'su -c' option is > used: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing#Writing_Example_Commands > > There is method to this madness, I assure you. :) I understand why you do it. It is probably slightly impractical if you have say 10 commands one after the other. But I wouldn't argue with your decision. I was actually referring more to Linux documents in general, when I said the lack of a prompt often causes confusion. -- Timothy Murphy e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366 s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Jan 2 22:11:44 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 08:11:44 +1000 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0801021411l72ef468el9183e72b8d3f4358@mail.gmail.com> > No I am in deep trouble now. I have both versions loaded and neither > work. I will need to purge both and start over. > > > > Karl Not deep trouble at all, I have done this a few times and it is easy to remove, assuming you used the default install locations, remove: 1: /usr/local/bin/jedit (the executable) 2: /usr/local/share/jedit/ (directory) 3. you could also remove .jedit from your home directory, but I think this is just for settings... Using the latest version should not be your problem. I have used both versions, I had a small issue with the latest, so I went back one (issue still was not resolved). You asked for my versions of java and jedit: rpm -qa | grep java glib-java-0.2.6-3.fc6 libvte-java-0.12.1-6.el5 libglade-java-2.12.5-3.fc6 cairo-java-1.0.5-3.fc6 libgtk-java-2.8.7-3.el5 revamp_java-0.0-3.rhis libgconf-java-2.12.4-6.el5 java-1.5.0-sun-plugin-1.5.0.13-1jpp.1.el5 libgnome-java-2.12.4-3.fc6 java-1.4.2-gcj-compat-1.4.2.0-40jpp.112 java-1.5.0-sun-1.5.0.13-1jpp.1.el5 I am using jedit4.3pre11install.jar as their were plug-ins I wanted that were not in earlier versions. I noticed a you had a lot of "libgcj." errors, maybe one of the packages above would solve that? Hope that helps... Cheers, Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From k5di at zianet.com Wed Jan 2 22:32:30 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2008 15:32:30 -0700 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0801021411l72ef468el9183e72b8d3f4358@mail.gmail.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801021411l72ef468el9183e72b8d3f4358@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <477C10FE.7050307@zianet.com> Murray McAllister wrote: >> No I am in deep trouble now. I have both versions loaded and neither >> work. I will need to purge both and start over. >> >> >> >> Karl >> > > Not deep trouble at all, I have done this a few times and it is easy > to remove, assuming you used the default install locations, remove: > > 1: /usr/local/bin/jedit (the executable) > 2: /usr/local/share/jedit/ (directory) > 3. you could also remove .jedit from your home directory, but I think > this is just for settings... > > Using the latest version should not be your problem. I have used both > versions, I had a small issue with the latest, so I went back one > (issue still was not resolved). > > You asked for my versions of java and jedit: > rpm -qa | grep java > > glib-java-0.2.6-3.fc6 > libvte-java-0.12.1-6.el5 > libglade-java-2.12.5-3.fc6 > cairo-java-1.0.5-3.fc6 > libgtk-java-2.8.7-3.el5 > revamp_java-0.0-3.rhis > libgconf-java-2.12.4-6.el5 > java-1.5.0-sun-plugin-1.5.0.13-1jpp.1.el5 > libgnome-java-2.12.4-3.fc6 > java-1.4.2-gcj-compat-1.4.2.0-40jpp.112 > java-1.5.0-sun-1.5.0.13-1jpp.1.el5 > > I am using jedit4.3pre11install.jar as their were plug-ins I wanted > that were not in earlier versions. I noticed a you had a lot of > "libgcj." errors, maybe one of the packages above would solve that? > > Hope that helps... > > Cheers, > > Murray. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > > Hi Murray, I think the problem has been found. I checked for installed java and got this: [root at k5di ~]# rpm -qa | grep java java_cup-0.10-0.k.7jpp java-1.5.0-gcj-1.5.0.0-17.fc8 java-1.7.0-icedtea-plugin-1.7.0.0-0.19.b21.snapshot.fc8 glib-java-0.2.6-8.fc7 tzdata-java-2007j-1.fc8 java-1.7.0-icedtea-1.7.0.0-0.19.b21.snapshot.fc8 [root at k5di ~]# That icedtea thing has been a bad idea and I didn't load that, or any of the others. I think it best to just unload all of that. So will do it after documenting what I do. So I can put it back later if I screwed up :-) Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 03:08:44 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:08:44 +1000 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <477C10FE.7050307@zianet.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801021411l72ef468el9183e72b8d3f4358@mail.gmail.com> <477C10FE.7050307@zianet.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0801021908s5b5a0fb7k6a044b912e2b9c02@mail.gmail.com> > > > Hi Murray, I think the problem has been found. I checked for installed > java and got this: > > [root at k5di ~]# rpm -qa | grep java > java_cup-0.10-0.k.7jpp > java-1.5.0-gcj-1.5.0.0-17.fc8 > java-1.7.0-icedtea-plugin-1.7.0.0-0.19.b21.snapshot.fc8 > glib-java-0.2.6-8.fc7 > tzdata-java-2007j-1.fc8 > java-1.7.0-icedtea-1.7.0.0-0.19.b21.snapshot.fc8 > [root at k5di ~]# > > That icedtea thing has been a bad idea and I didn't load that, or any of > the others. I think it best to just unload all of that. So will do it > after documenting what I do. So I can put it back later if I screwed up :-) > > > Karl Thanks Karl, I have not tried icetea yet. Please let me know if you can't get it going... Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 3 14:55:29 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:25:29 +0530 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <477C10FE.7050307@zianet.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801021411l72ef468el9183e72b8d3f4358@mail.gmail.com> <477C10FE.7050307@zianet.com> Message-ID: <477CF761.10506@fedoraproject.org> Karl Larsen wrote: > That icedtea thing has been a bad idea and I didn't load that, or any of > the others. I think it best to just unload all of that. So will do it > after documenting what I do. So I can put it back later if I screwed up :-) JEdit works fine with IcedTea. Rahul From k5di at zianet.com Thu Jan 3 15:22:54 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 08:22:54 -0700 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <477CF761.10506@fedoraproject.org> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801021411l72ef468el9183e72b8d3f4358@mail.gmail.com> <477C10FE.7050307@zianet.com> <477CF761.10506@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <477CFDCE.70504@zianet.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: >> That icedtea thing has been a bad idea and I didn't load that, or any >> of the others. I think it best to just unload all of that. So will do >> it after documenting what I do. So I can put it back later if I >> screwed up :-) > > JEdit works fine with IcedTea. > > Rahul > Not on my computer F8 from a DVD load. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 3 15:17:58 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:47:58 +0530 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <477CFDCE.70504@zianet.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801021411l72ef468el9183e72b8d3f4358@mail.gmail.com> <477C10FE.7050307@zianet.com> <477CF761.10506@fedoraproject.org> <477CFDCE.70504@zianet.com> Message-ID: <477CFCA6.4010905@fedoraproject.org> Karl Larsen wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Karl Larsen wrote: >>> That icedtea thing has been a bad idea and I didn't load that, or any >>> of the others. I think it best to just unload all of that. So will do >>> it after documenting what I do. So I can put it back later if I >>> screwed up :-) >> >> JEdit works fine with IcedTea. >> >> Rahul >> > Not on my computer F8 from a DVD load. Likely to be a configuration issue. It works perfectly fine in my Fedora 8 system. Rahul From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Thu Jan 3 15:31:08 2008 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 09:31:08 -0600 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <477CFDCE.70504@zianet.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801021411l72ef468el9183e72b8d3f4358@mail.gmail.com> <477C10FE.7050307@zianet.com> <477CF761.10506@fedoraproject.org> <477CFDCE.70504@zianet.com> Message-ID: <20080103093108.d3f9c2e8.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karl Larsen , spake thus: > Not on my computer F8 from a DVD load. Karl, Did you install the Sun Java or are you trying to use the GNU java and classpath? I don't think jEdit works with that. Try installing the latest SUN jvm. I've used jEdit like that for years. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 3 15:29:30 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 20:59:30 +0530 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <20080103093108.d3f9c2e8.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801021411l72ef468el9183e72b8d3f4358@mail.gmail.com> <477C10FE.7050307@zianet.com> <477CF761.10506@fedoraproject.org> <477CFDCE.70504@zianet.com> <20080103093108.d3f9c2e8.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <477CFF5A.7050802@fedoraproject.org> Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karl Larsen , spake thus: > >> Not on my computer F8 from a DVD load. > > Karl, > > Did you install the Sun Java or are you trying to use the GNU java > and classpath? I don't think jEdit works with that. > > Try installing the latest SUN jvm. I've used jEdit like that for > years. IcedTea is a derivative of OpenJDK which is Sun Java under a GPL+classpath license. If you are using x86 or x86_64, you get IcedTea as default in Fedora 8 and not GCJ. Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jan 3 17:52:54 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 09:52:54 -0800 Subject: commands as super-user (was: JEdit) In-Reply-To: References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199300747.8565.47.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 22:43 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: > It is probably slightly impractical if you have say 10 commands > one after the other. This is true and we haven't decided a best practice here. The reason we use 'su -c' is that avoids having to point to a sudo how-to. We probably need to decide that switching to root is OK at some point. You lose a layer of security auditing, but make the user's life much easier. Then we can teach either the 'su -' or 'su -c "/bin/bash"' methods. Another option is to have a standard paragraph at the start of all documents. It says something like: We use the 'su -c' option for commands, but an easier method over the long-term is to go through the steps in this [Sudo How-to]. Thereafter, replace the 'su -c' option with 'sudo' and remove the "" from around the command. > I was actually referring more to Linux documents in general, > when I said the lack of a prompt often causes confusion. Ah, yes, the source of the confusion that caused Red Hat's docs team years ago to decide to eschew the prompt in command examples. So now you have come full-circle on the reasoning. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jan 3 17:50:36 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 23:20:36 +0530 Subject: commands as super-user In-Reply-To: <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199300747.8565.47.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <477D206C.5050304@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 22:43 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: > >> It is probably slightly impractical if you have say 10 commands >> one after the other. > > This is true and we haven't decided a best practice here. The reason we > use 'su -c' is that avoids having to point to a sudo how-to. Sudo might become default in the next release if more programs start using PolicyKit. So make sure you to keep a close eye on the development goals there before making any drastic changes to the conventions we follow. Rahul From poelstra at redhat.com Thu Jan 3 18:49:29 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 10:49:29 -0800 Subject: [Fwd: Re: GPG Keysigning at FUDCon] Message-ID: <477D2E39.6090404@redhat.com> Would it make sense to change our docs to refer to subkeys.pgp.net instead of MIT? John -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: GPG Keysigning at FUDCon Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 13:43:54 -0500 From: Todd Zullinger Reply-To: Development discussions related to Fedora To: fedora-devel-list at redhat.com References: <20071212214010.GA20896 at auslistsprd01.us.dell.com> <477C3AA7.9010700 at redhat.com> <1199353983.13378.1.camel at rousalka.dyndns.org> <477D1646.6080207 at redhat.com> John Poelstra wrote: > I looked into it more and changed the expiration by: > > 1) gpg --edit and then option "expire" > 2) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --send-keys to make change > public FWIW, you may want to send that to subkeys.pgp.net, which is where Matt plans to pull the keys from for the key signing. This is the default keyserver in recent gnupg releases. I think that there is a sync between pgp.mit.edu and subkeys.pgp.net, but I'm not positive. The gnupg default is subkeys.pgp.net because pgp.mit.edu runs ancient keyserver software that has many known problems (it ignores photo packets, can munge up multiple subkeys, and other annoyances). -- Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I do nothing, granted. But I see the hours pass - which is better than trying to fill them. -- E. M. Cioran -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: file:///tmp/nsmail-1.tmp Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 543 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: file:///tmp/nsmail-2.tmp URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 19:18:25 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:18:25 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: Re: GPG Keysigning at FUDCon] In-Reply-To: <477D2E39.6090404@redhat.com> References: <477D2E39.6090404@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1199387905.6637.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 10:49 -0800, John Poelstra wrote: > Would it make sense to change our docs to refer to subkeys.pgp.net > instead of MIT? It would, if the recommended GUI tools defaulted to subkeys.pgp.net as well. Otherwise there's somewhat of a logical disconnect. I see that the current maintainer of Seahorse may be running up against -ENOTIME. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 3 20:10:15 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 15:10:15 -0500 Subject: commands as super-user (was: JEdit) In-Reply-To: <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199300747.8565.47.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1199391015.6637.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 09:52 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 22:43 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote: > > > It is probably slightly impractical if you have say 10 commands > > one after the other. > > This is true and we haven't decided a best practice here. The reason we > use 'su -c' is that avoids having to point to a sudo how-to. > > We probably need to decide that switching to root is OK at some point. > You lose a layer of security auditing, but make the user's life much > easier. Then we can teach either the 'su -' or 'su -c "/bin/bash"' > methods. I think if we're dealing with an audience of desktop users, we should use 'su -c' for three or fewer administrator commands in a procedure, and 'su -' followed by the commands in a root shell for longer lists. If the audience is administrators, I would think we should point to our sudo guidance. Which reminds me... > Another option is to have a standard paragraph at the start of all > documents. It says something like: > > We use the 'su -c' option for commands, but an easier method > over the long-term is to go through the steps in this [Sudo > How-to]. Thereafter, replace the 'su -c' option with 'sudo' and > remove the "" from around the command. ...that we should probably condense the sudo tutorial and include it in the Administrator Guide, referring to it there in documentation that needs it. Just an idea. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Thu Jan 3 20:38:13 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 13:38:13 -0700 Subject: jEdit In-Reply-To: <477CFF5A.7050802@fedoraproject.org> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <477BAFBA.1050403@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801021411l72ef468el9183e72b8d3f4358@mail.gmail.com> <477C10FE.7050307@zianet.com> <477CF761.10506@fedoraproject.org> <477CFDCE.70504@zianet.com> <20080103093108.d3f9c2e8.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <477CFF5A.7050802@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <477D47B5.70904@zianet.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Tommy Reynolds wrote: >> Uttered Karl Larsen , spake thus: >> >>> Not on my computer F8 from a DVD load. >> >> Karl, >> >> Did you install the Sun Java or are you trying to use the GNU java >> and classpath? I don't think jEdit works with that. >> >> Try installing the latest SUN jvm. I've used jEdit like that for >> years. > > IcedTea is a derivative of OpenJDK which is Sun Java under a > GPL+classpath license. If you are using x86 or x86_64, you get IcedTea > as default in Fedora 8 and not GCJ. > > Rahul > I am using java version 6 from the Sun Inc web page. Installing jedit was super fast compared to the so-called Fedora approved stuff. It takes some installing to get the version 6 functional but BOY! When you have it the java products really fly! Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From gayleard at eircom.net Thu Jan 3 20:46:36 2008 From: gayleard at eircom.net (Timothy Murphy) Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2008 21:46:36 +0100 Subject: [Fwd: Re: GPG Keysigning at FUDCon] In-Reply-To: <477D2E39.6090404@redhat.com> References: <477D2E39.6090404@redhat.com> Message-ID: <200801032146.36855.gayleard@eircom.net> On Thu 03 Jan 2008, John Poelstra wrote: > Would it make sense to change our docs to refer to subkeys.pgp.net > instead of MIT? Personally, I followed the instructions in your wiki exactly, and they did not work. I created a gpg key, and took the asci version to pgp.mit.edu, and it worked perfectly. I tried accessing subkeys.pgp.net, and I got re-directed to which firefox could not find. Maybe I'm lucky, but as far as I am concerned MIT runs a service for registering pgp keys, which works perfectly well in a completely transparent way. You register your key, and then you check that it is registered. I see absolutely no advantage is following an indirect route which achieves the same thing (if it works, which it doesn't for me) in a mysterious and roundabout way. From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jan 3 22:01:47 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 17:01:47 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen Message-ID: <477D5B4B.3030407@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Eric H. Christensen Newport News, VA USA Information Assurance Analyst Honeywell Technology Solutions Inc * Your goals in the Fedora Project o What do you want to write about? Security mostly but I'll write about anything because it helps me learn! o What other documentation do you want to see published? Not sure what else needs to be published but I'm open to ideas. o Anything else you'd like to do? I'm open to suggestions. * Historical qualifications o What other projects or writing have you worked on in the past? I do a lot of web work and work on documenting networks. o What level and type of computer skills do you have? I'm just getting out of the noob status in Linux and am trying hard to get the skills I need to becoming a Linux (read that Fedora & Red Hat) administrator/guru. I've been working with computer for the last 18 years, mostly in the Windows world. o What other skills do you have that might be applicable? User interface design, other so-called soft skills (people skills), programming, etc. I have to interface with people all the time so I'm usually pretty good at that. I'm not a programmer but am an excellent networking engineer and security auditor. I know how to explain security to people that aren't in security. o What makes you an excellent match for the project? I have a certain attention to detail that helps me go back to a document or webpage that I've published and refine it to help make it clearer. * GPG KEYID and fingerprint D74908ED 2007-12-31 [expires: 2008-12-30] Key fingerprint = 4395 EF8D DDFF E681 26CB 7165 2F95 7CC9 D749 08ED -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHfVtHL5V8yddJCO0RAlGFAJ0e1D5CuC0QwKFb234T9qhDkfChNwCdERkj 8NjMFCybJ8GxgmN/TZZ3jSw= =TOY8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jan 3 22:02:56 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:02:56 -0800 Subject: commands as super-user (was: JEdit) In-Reply-To: <1199391015.6637.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199300747.8565.47.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199391015.6637.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199397776.8565.147.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 15:10 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > ...that we should probably condense the sudo tutorial and include it in > the Administrator Guide, referring to it there in documentation that > needs it. Just an idea. +1 Here it is if anyone has time to bring the content over to the Administration Guide: http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/sudo-tutorial/ XML source is in CVS: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/sudo-tutorial/?root=docs or you can check it out anonymously[1]: export CVS_RSH=ssh export CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs cvs -z3 login cvs -z3 co sudo-tutorial docs-common The `docs-common` module is only needed if you plan on building to HTML from the XML, which I already did above. - Karsten [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsUsage#Anonymous_CVS -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Jan 4 00:17:07 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:17:07 +0900 Subject: commands as super-user (was: JEdit) In-Reply-To: <1199397776.8565.147.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199300747.8565.47.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199391015.6637.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199397776.8565.147.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1199405827.25152.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 14:02 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 15:10 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > ...that we should probably condense the sudo tutorial and include it in > > the Administrator Guide, referring to it there in documentation that > > needs it. Just an idea. > > +1 > > Here it is if anyone has time to bring the content over to the > Administration Guide: > > http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/sudo-tutorial/ > > XML source is in CVS: > > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/sudo-tutorial/?root=docs > > or you can check it out anonymously[1]: > > export CVS_RSH=ssh > export CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs > cvs -z3 login > cvs -z3 co sudo-tutorial docs-common > > The `docs-common` module is only needed if you plan on building to HTML > from the XML, which I already did above. > > - Karsten > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsUsage#Anonymous_CVS I would actually prefer Sudo since you can run multiple commands without using su -c so for me it would be significantly better for the user. Cheers, Marc From k5di at zianet.com Fri Jan 4 01:27:05 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:27:05 -0700 Subject: commands as super-user In-Reply-To: <1199405827.25152.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199300747.8565.47.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199391015.6637.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199397776.8565.147.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199405827.25152.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <477D8B69.3090806@zianet.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 14:02 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > >> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 15:10 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >>> ...that we should probably condense the sudo tutorial and include it in >>> the Administrator Guide, referring to it there in documentation that >>> needs it. Just an idea. >>> >> +1 >> >> Here it is if anyone has time to bring the content over to the >> Administration Guide: >> >> http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/sudo-tutorial/ >> >> XML source is in CVS: >> >> http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewcvs/sudo-tutorial/?root=docs >> >> or you can check it out anonymously[1]: >> >> export CVS_RSH=ssh >> export CVSROOT=:pserver:anonymous at cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs >> cvs -z3 login >> cvs -z3 co sudo-tutorial docs-common >> >> The `docs-common` module is only needed if you plan on building to HTML >> from the XML, which I already did above. >> >> - Karsten >> >> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsUsage#Anonymous_CVS >> > > I would actually prefer Sudo since you can run multiple commands without > using su -c so for me it would be significantly better for the user. > > Cheers, > > Marc > > There is little lost if you say up front, a root Terminal is one where you type su - and it asks for your root password. In my way of doing things I have a root terminal above a non-root terminal. They both fit well and you can use the one needed. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Jan 4 02:10:18 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:10:18 -0500 Subject: Request for Review: Using FireGPG Message-ID: <30082351.1537291199412618793.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/WithFireGPG I started this page yesterday before finding all the information on joining the documentation team and how to PROPERLY submit a work. Sorry... I have started a page with instructions on installing and setting up FireGPG which is a Firefox extension that allows users to sign and encrypt e-mail messages when using a webmail client. It was actually specifically designed to integrate with Gmail but also works with other webmail products (really any time you need to sign and/or encrypt text you can use the extension). I haven't added the information for using it with webmail clients other than Gmail but what is there should be correct. I'd appreciate someone verifying the information. Thanks, Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org iD8DBQFHfZVML5V8yddJCO0RAgWEAJ9q6chMYqZ3UZLP18R7B/ZjfuRN8QCffy2C kG3w/COnc6Cc3fhhHdwxCQk= =Eezi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 04:43:56 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 14:43:56 +1000 Subject: text editor documentation for docbook Message-ID: <95f1114b0801032043i25a92afcnec15a868eccd965e@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have, very slowly, been working internally on a few small documents for Kate and jEdit, concentrating on the features to make it easy to use/work with XML (plug-ins, extra packages etc). Paul suggested I could host this somewhere and let everyone else add to it. Does anyone know if it is possible to set up, say, svn in fedorapeople? For example, set up a directory in my home directory on fedorapeople and run svn from there? Or is there a place on the wiki I could post this? I have finished Kate, just not jEdit...nothing is private, so I don't see the problem in copying it all straight into somewhere public. I am not an expert with Kate or jEdit so it would be great to see what other people know. Thanks for your help. Regards, Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 4 12:43:33 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 07:43:33 -0500 Subject: text editor documentation for docbook In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0801032043i25a92afcnec15a868eccd965e@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0801032043i25a92afcnec15a868eccd965e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1199450613.6637.70.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 14:43 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi, > > I have, very slowly, been working internally on a few small documents > for Kate and jEdit, concentrating on the features to make it easy to > use/work with XML (plug-ins, extra packages etc). Paul suggested I > could host this somewhere and let everyone else add to it. Does anyone > know if it is possible to set up, say, svn in fedorapeople? For > example, set up a directory in my home directory on fedorapeople and > run svn from there? > > Or is there a place on the wiki I could post this? I have finished > Kate, just not jEdit...nothing is private, so I don't see the problem > in copying it all straight into somewhere public. I am not an expert > with Kate or jEdit so it would be great to see what other people know. > > Thanks for your help. It's my understanding that fedorapeople.org has several different SCM packages available, not the least of which is git, which is the one that everyone seems very hot on right now. Since fedorapeople.org also supports ACLs (see the FAQ at the site) you can give other users access to the repo to work on items. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jan 4 17:39:20 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 09:39:20 -0800 Subject: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen In-Reply-To: <477D5B4B.3030407@christensenplace.us> References: <477D5B4B.3030407@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <1199468360.10503.15.camel@erato.phig.org> On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 17:01 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Eric H. Christensen > Newport News, VA USA > Information Assurance Analyst > Honeywell Technology Solutions Inc Welcome Eric. Let us know (via this list) if you run into any issues with getting signed up for accounts or figuring out what to do or where to go. The carpenter's roof is leaking a bit, but we're working on it. :) > * Your goals in the Fedora Project > o What do you want to write about? Security mostly but I'll write > about anything because it helps me learn! That is very true. You should have seen my security knowledge when I started tracking SELinux development as a tech writer. :) If you are interested, I think our in-progress Fedora Administration Guide (AG) could use a fresh look at these two areas: * Big view -- make sure that overall the document is consistent and promotes good security practices that use Fedora-packaged solutions. * Focused view -- what is missing? Can we merge the SELinux content into the AG? What about all those blog posts from Dan Walsh? What other security content can we cover? For example, we might want to link out to some nice explanations of e.g. buffer overflows, such as the Uli Drepper video series: http://developer.redhatmagazine.com/2007/10/26/uli-drepper-paying-attention-to-the-basics/ cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Fri Jan 4 22:05:22 2008 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2008 16:05:22 -0600 Subject: commands as super-user (was: JEdit) In-Reply-To: <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199300747.8565.47.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20080104160522.217aed03.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > You lose a layer of security auditing, but make the user's life much > easier. Then we can teach either the 'su -' or 'su -c "/bin/bash"' > methods. With respect: bosh. Root login is the ultimate evil. On a multiuser system you can't tell which root did what. But sudo is important on a single-user system because: 1) "su -c" can introduct some fancy shell quoting requirements. Don't peek and tell me where the 'su -c "mkdir ${HOME}/foo"' command makes a directory. Not novice-friendly. 2) there is no record of what was done by the "su -c" command and this makes error recovery more difficult. I know what I *meant* to type, but what did I *actually* type? 3) Easier to learn the correct habit than unlearn a bad one later. A single paragraph / appendix what boils down to: # echo "${USER} ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL" >>/etc/sudoers doesn't seem too onerous. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From k5di at zianet.com Fri Jan 4 22:50:57 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 15:50:57 -0700 Subject: commands as super-user In-Reply-To: <20080104160522.217aed03.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <477AC42F.8070702@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011705k58c29b40x16bd761cc55da63d@mail.gmail.com> <477AFAB8.8080707@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801011950wf380c05v659b26bc39a5a2a2@mail.gmail.com> <1199274187.8565.11.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199300747.8565.47.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199382774.8565.119.camel@erato.phig.org> <20080104160522.217aed03.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <477EB851.3030507@zianet.com> Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > >> You lose a layer of security auditing, but make the user's life much >> easier. Then we can teach either the 'su -' or 'su -c "/bin/bash"' >> methods. >> > > With respect: bosh. Root login is the ultimate evil. On a multiuser > system you can't tell which root did what. > > But sudo is important on a single-user system because: > > 1) "su -c" can introduct some fancy shell quoting requirements. > Don't peek and tell me where the 'su -c "mkdir ${HOME}/foo"' > command makes a directory. Not novice-friendly. > > 2) there is no record of what was done by the "su -c" command and > this makes error recovery more difficult. I know what I *meant* > to type, but what did I *actually* type? > > 3) Easier to learn the correct habit than unlearn a bad one later. > > A single paragraph / appendix what boils down to: > > # echo "${USER} ALL=(ALL) NOPASSWD: ALL" >>/etc/sudoers > > doesn't seem too onerous. > > Cheers > All your concerns are based on the fact every user of a multiuser Linux has the root password. This is only the case when there is just one user. So a plain user can try su c but it will not work. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Jan 4 23:12:34 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 18:12:34 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen In-Reply-To: <1199468360.10503.15.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <477D5B4B.3030407@christensenplace.us> <1199468360.10503.15.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <477EBD62.6080609@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Karsten, Thanks for the message. I am already a Fedora Ambassador and work with the Free Media team so I'm in most of the systems already (thank goodness). I found and read the documentation on starting new pages and such and I have one page in the Drafts folder awaiting someone else to take a look at it. Glad to help out where I can, just point me. Eric Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 17:01 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> Eric H. Christensen >> Newport News, VA USA >> Information Assurance Analyst >> Honeywell Technology Solutions Inc > > Welcome Eric. > > Let us know (via this list) if you run into any issues with getting > signed up for accounts or figuring out what to do or where to go. > > The carpenter's roof is leaking a bit, but we're working on it. :) > >> * Your goals in the Fedora Project >> o What do you want to write about? Security mostly but I'll write >> about anything because it helps me learn! > > That is very true. You should have seen my security knowledge when I > started tracking SELinux development as a tech writer. :) > > If you are interested, I think our in-progress Fedora Administration > Guide (AG) could use a fresh look at these two areas: > > * Big view -- make sure that overall the document is consistent and > promotes good security practices that use Fedora-packaged solutions. > > * Focused view -- what is missing? Can we merge the SELinux content > into the AG? What about all those blog posts from Dan Walsh? What > other security content can we cover? > > For example, we might want to link out to some nice explanations of e.g. > buffer overflows, such as the Uli Drepper video series: > > http://developer.redhatmagazine.com/2007/10/26/uli-drepper-paying-attention-to-the-basics/ > > cheers - Karsten > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHfr1hL5V8yddJCO0RAtYuAJ9nID0PeTvtabqEAUnc+B2DxrscUQCdF7zC CagDnCTmenf6fHthrXBaKRc= =tgS+ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 5 00:48:47 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 19:48:47 -0500 Subject: Overview rewrite In-Reply-To: <4778DC38.3010501@fedoraproject.org> References: <47782BB2.8010704@fedoraproject.org> <477840F4.2030909@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0712310414y504eceeci3f03c83997d453aa@mail.gmail.com> <4778DC38.3010501@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1199494127.3652.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2007-12-31 at 17:40 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > John Babich wrote: > > > Rahul: > > > > I copied what you did and performed a fairly large rewrite - the > > result of being an obsessive-compulsive word-hacker. > > > > It's at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/Overview. > > > > Use whatever you like. > > I have taken it with some minor adjustments. Thanks. I would really like this page to read more easily for project newcomers, at whom it's aimed. That includes first-time Linux users, press, and so forth. Does anyone mind if I take a stab at that? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Jan 5 00:54:25 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 06:24:25 +0530 Subject: Overview rewrite In-Reply-To: <1199494127.3652.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <47782BB2.8010704@fedoraproject.org> <477840F4.2030909@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0712310414y504eceeci3f03c83997d453aa@mail.gmail.com> <4778DC38.3010501@fedoraproject.org> <1199494127.3652.45.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <477ED541.1090409@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2007-12-31 at 17:40 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> John Babich wrote: >> >>> Rahul: >>> >>> I copied what you did and performed a fairly large rewrite - the >>> result of being an obsessive-compulsive word-hacker. >>> >>> It's at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JohnBabich/Overview. >>> >>> Use whatever you like. >> I have taken it with some minor adjustments. Thanks. > > I would really like this page to read more easily for project newcomers, > at whom it's aimed. That includes first-time Linux users, press, and so > forth. Does anyone mind if I take a stab at that? Sure but if you are aiming for press, take a look at http://www.mail-archive.com/fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com/msg05089.html I think covering those list elsewhere and putting in a press link somewhere prominent in the wiki or even in the front page will work better. Rahul From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sat Jan 5 01:22:22 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 11:22:22 +1000 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] Message-ID: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 5, 2008 3:39 AM, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 17:01 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > Eric H. Christensen > > Newport News, VA USA > > Information Assurance Analyst > > Honeywell Technology Solutions Inc > > Welcome Eric. > > Let us know (via this list) if you run into any issues with getting > signed up for accounts or figuring out what to do or where to go. > > The carpenter's roof is leaking a bit, but we're working on it. :) > > > * Your goals in the Fedora Project > > o What do you want to write about? Security mostly but I'll write > > about anything because it helps me learn! > > That is very true. You should have seen my security knowledge when I > started tracking SELinux development as a tech writer. :) > > If you are interested, I think our in-progress Fedora Administration > Guide (AG) could use a fresh look at these two areas: > > * Big view -- make sure that overall the document is consistent and > promotes good security practices that use Fedora-packaged solutions. > > * Focused view -- what is missing? Can we merge the SELinux content > into the AG? What about all those blog posts from Dan Walsh? What > other security content can we cover? Hi, I am trying to fix the dns section I wrote so it reflects using an RPM instead of a tarball. I have only gotten around to one little section regarding selinux, but I am going to include how to set the correct context for each file/folder created. I think it would be good to merge selinux into each section (if applicable), considering it is shipped and enabled by default, instead of making people look all over the place. Regards, Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Jan 5 01:39:08 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 10:39:08 +0900 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 11:22 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > On Jan 5, 2008 3:39 AM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 17:01 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > Eric H. Christensen > > > Newport News, VA USA > > > Information Assurance Analyst > > > Honeywell Technology Solutions Inc > > > > Welcome Eric. > > > > Let us know (via this list) if you run into any issues with getting > > signed up for accounts or figuring out what to do or where to go. > > > > The carpenter's roof is leaking a bit, but we're working on it. :) > > > > > * Your goals in the Fedora Project > > > o What do you want to write about? Security mostly but I'll write > > > about anything because it helps me learn! > > > > That is very true. You should have seen my security knowledge when I > > started tracking SELinux development as a tech writer. :) > > > > If you are interested, I think our in-progress Fedora Administration > > Guide (AG) could use a fresh look at these two areas: > > > > * Big view -- make sure that overall the document is consistent and > > promotes good security practices that use Fedora-packaged solutions. > > > > * Focused view -- what is missing? Can we merge the SELinux content > > into the AG? What about all those blog posts from Dan Walsh? What > > other security content can we cover? > > Hi, > > I am trying to fix the dns section I wrote so it reflects using an RPM > instead of a tarball. I have only gotten around to one little section > regarding selinux, but I am going to include how to set the correct > context for each file/folder created. > > I think it would be good to merge selinux into each section (if > applicable), considering it is shipped and enabled by default, instead > of making people look all over the place. > > Regards, > > Murray. I have updated the selinux-faq which answers a lot of questions. Have a look at it. I'm not to sure if its shifted from cvs to docs.fp.o Cheers, Marc From dan at new2linux.com Sat Jan 5 02:30:29 2008 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 21:30:29 -0500 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> Marc, It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example): generic content here Gnome * customizing * working with media * etc KDE * customizing * working with media * etc Xfce ... and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice. I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple weeks ago. From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Jan 5 04:03:54 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 13:03:54 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > Marc, > > It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I > can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the > Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to > steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary > bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late > now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a > section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same > across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 > sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example): > > generic content here > Gnome > * customizing > * working with media > * etc > KDE > * customizing > * working with media > * etc > Xfce > ... > > and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user > could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice. > > I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? > I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple > weeks ago. > > I don't have a working xfce install anymore since my other computer that uses it died. I don't know what is in KDE either since I haven't used kde in ages. I'll install xfce and go from there if you want to do the kde work? Cheers, Marc From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jan 5 06:12:48 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:12:48 -0800 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 10:39 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I have updated the selinux-faq which answers a lot of questions. Have a > look at it. I'm not to sure if its shifted from cvs to docs.fp.o Yeah, no automagic there, it's all manual. Can you do a build and post it on your fedorapeople.org page? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jan 5 06:20:53 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2008 22:20:53 -0800 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 22:12 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 10:39 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > I have updated the selinux-faq which answers a lot of questions. Have a > > look at it. I'm not to sure if its shifted from cvs to docs.fp.o > > Yeah, no automagic there, it's all manual. > > Can you do a build and post it on your fedorapeople.org page? Meant to say, "build a draft". That let's you easily iterate with others, then when it's ready we can update docs.fp.o. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Jan 5 07:01:37 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 16:01:37 +0900 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 22:12 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > >> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 10:39 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> >> >>> I have updated the selinux-faq which answers a lot of questions. Have a >>> look at it. I'm not to sure if its shifted from cvs to docs.fp.o >>> >> Yeah, no automagic there, it's all manual. >> >> Can you do a build and post it on your fedorapeople.org page? >> > > Meant to say, "build a draft". That let's you easily iterate with > others, then when it's ready we can update docs.fp.o. > > - Karsten > How do I do that? Cheers, Marc From couf at skynet.be Sat Jan 5 08:42:21 2008 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:42:21 +0100 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> Op zaterdag 05-01-2008 om 16:01 uur [tijdzone +0900], schreef Marc Wiriadisastra: > Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 22:12 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 10:39 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I have updated the selinux-faq which answers a lot of questions. Have a > >>> look at it. I'm not to sure if its shifted from cvs to docs.fp.o > >>> > >> Yeah, no automagic there, it's all manual. > >> > >> Can you do a build and post it on your fedorapeople.org page? > >> > > > > Meant to say, "build a draft". That let's you easily iterate with > > others, then when it's ready we can update docs.fp.o. > > > > - Karsten > > > How do I do that? > > Cheers, > > Marc make html-en_US in the correct folder scp -r selinux-faq-en_US @fedorapeople.org:~/public_html/ This would make it available on .fedorapeople.org/selinux-faq-en_US BTW you might want to copy your work into a devel branch, so we keep an analogous directory layout in CVS. Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From couf at skynet.be Sat Jan 5 08:42:21 2008 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:42:21 +0100 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> Op zaterdag 05-01-2008 om 16:01 uur [tijdzone +0900], schreef Marc Wiriadisastra: > Karsten Wade wrote: > > On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 22:12 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > >> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 10:39 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> > >> > >>> I have updated the selinux-faq which answers a lot of questions. Have a > >>> look at it. I'm not to sure if its shifted from cvs to docs.fp.o > >>> > >> Yeah, no automagic there, it's all manual. > >> > >> Can you do a build and post it on your fedorapeople.org page? > >> > > > > Meant to say, "build a draft". That let's you easily iterate with > > others, then when it's ready we can update docs.fp.o. > > > > - Karsten > > > How do I do that? > > Cheers, > > Marc make html-en_US in the correct folder scp -r selinux-faq-en_US @fedorapeople.org:~/public_html/ This would make it available on .fedorapeople.org/selinux-faq-en_US BTW you might want to copy your work into a devel branch, so we keep an analogous directory layout in CVS. Bart -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 5 14:56:25 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 09:56:25 -0500 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 09:42 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Op zaterdag 05-01-2008 om 16:01 uur [tijdzone +0900], schreef Marc > Wiriadisastra: > > Karsten Wade wrote: > > > On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 22:12 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > >> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 10:39 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >>> I have updated the selinux-faq which answers a lot of questions. Have a > > >>> look at it. I'm not to sure if its shifted from cvs to docs.fp.o > > >>> > > >> Yeah, no automagic there, it's all manual. > > >> > > >> Can you do a build and post it on your fedorapeople.org page? > > >> > > > > > > Meant to say, "build a draft". That let's you easily iterate with > > > others, then when it's ready we can update docs.fp.o. > > > > > How do I do that? > > make html-en_US in the correct folder > scp -r selinux-faq-en_US @fedorapeople.org:~/public_html/ > > This would make it available on > .fedorapeople.org/selinux-faq-en_US > > BTW you might want to copy your work into a devel branch, so we keep an > analogous directory layout in CVS. This is my fault -- I only made a F-8 branch for Marc when he started working on this. I haven't seen many commits lately, though -- there are some changes to a couple paragraphs that mention graphical tools, though, and some changes to the Fedora release numbers. Marc, did you find when you checked that everything else in the FAQ was still applicable? I was hoping that more of Dan Walsh's material from the wiki[1] would be prominently available in official docs, but do we want to: 1. ...incoprorate Walsh's work in the FAQ? 2. ...roll the FAQ into the Admin Guide and add Walsh's work there? 3. ...keep them separate? 4. ...[other]? = = = [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SELinux -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From couf at skynet.be Sat Jan 5 15:12:51 2008 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 16:12:51 +0100 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199545971.9049.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> Op zaterdag 05-01-2008 om 09:56 uur [tijdzone -0500], schreef Paul W. Frields: [snip] > This is my fault -- I only made a F-8 branch for Marc when he started > working on this. I haven't seen many commits lately, though -- there > are some changes to a couple paragraphs that mention graphical tools, > though, and some changes to the Fedora release numbers. Marc, did you > find when you checked that everything else in the FAQ was still > applicable? > > I was hoping that more of Dan Walsh's material from the wiki[1] would be > prominently available in official docs, but do we want to: > > 1. ...incoprorate Walsh's work in the FAQ? Yes, this should definitely happen. There's a lot of stuff Walsh's written which explains most of SELinux. > 2. ...roll the FAQ into the Admin Guide and add Walsh's work there? > 3. ...keep them separate? I would like to keep them separate, it would bloat the AG too much. Once you start of with SELinux the amount of content gets tripled. And we don't really want people searching SELinux stuff to go through the whole AG to find what they need as SELinux sometimes affects a whole portion of the system. > 4. ...[other]? Upgrade the FAQ to a more formal Guide? This includes a lot of intro, and why is SELinux what it is, but that would mostly be a rephrasing / styling of the content out there on the different wiki's, blogs, ... > = = = > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SELinux > -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Jan 5 16:29:58 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 01:29:58 +0900 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199545971.9049.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199545971.9049.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <1199550598.20753.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 16:12 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Op zaterdag 05-01-2008 om 09:56 uur [tijdzone -0500], schreef Paul W. > Frields: > > [snip] > > > This is my fault -- I only made a F-8 branch for Marc when he started > > working on this. I haven't seen many commits lately, though -- there > > are some changes to a couple paragraphs that mention graphical tools, > > though, and some changes to the Fedora release numbers. Marc, did you > > find when you checked that everything else in the FAQ was still > > applicable? > > > > I was hoping that more of Dan Walsh's material from the wiki[1] would be > > prominently available in official docs, but do we want to: > > > > 1. ...incoprorate Walsh's work in the FAQ? + 1 but a lot of his work relates to how to achieve things where as the faq gives brief examples but not to detailed. > > Yes, this should definitely happen. There's a lot of stuff Walsh's > written which explains most of SELinux. > > > 2. ...roll the FAQ into the Admin Guide and add Walsh's work there? > > 3. ...keep them separate? > Keep it separate I think there should be a mention with a link from the admin guide to the FAQ. > I would like to keep them separate, it would bloat the AG too much. Once > you start of with SELinux the amount of content gets tripled. And we > don't really want people searching SELinux stuff to go through the whole > AG to find what they need as SELinux sometimes affects a whole portion > of the system. > > > 4. ...[other]? > > Upgrade the FAQ to a more formal Guide? This includes a lot of intro, > and why is SELinux what it is, but that would mostly be a rephrasing / > styling of the content out there on the different wiki's, blogs, ... Upgrade the FAQ to a formal guide seems like the best way to go. I checked all the links and rearranged the words. I couldn't add much of Walsh's stuff into it because it didn't seem to fit. There was a lot of use case scenario's in Walsh's posts and while thats great for a guide in a simple FAQ it would not explain it sufficiently it seemed so I didn't add it into there. The details in the FAQ still seem to work. I don't modify selinux to much since I don't understand the scripting of it, I left those bits alone since I couldn't verify or change anything in the guides. Cheers, Marc P.S. If we are writing it as a guide can we talk to Walsh to get some ideas on use cases? From freeparis2 at gmail.com Sat Jan 5 16:41:09 2008 From: freeparis2 at gmail.com (ishii kazuo) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 01:41:09 +0900 Subject: Self-Introduction: Kazuo Ishii Message-ID: Hello, My name is Kazuo Ishii. I am working in the unuv. for research in pharmacy and I am a bioinformatics scientist for statistics computing using R/S-PLUS in Linux OS. I am maintaining some official and private websites about datamining, which are described in Japanese, English and French. Priv? http://freeparis2.blogspot.com/ R/S-PLUS http://officeparis.org/blog/ IPEJ-BIO http://officeparis.org/bioxoops/ IPEJ-IEC http://officeparis.org/hiki/ tDiary http://officeparis.org/tdiary/ My real speciality is biotechnology, bioinformatics, computational statistics and molecular biology. I also use another internet name Pierre I. Katz, which is translated to French from Japanese, because I have working experience in Paris for about three years. I would like to maintain Japanese environment of Linux for the basis of my business, bioinformatics. My personal data is shown below; * Full legal Kazuo Ishii, Ph.D. * City, Country; Noda, Chiba, Japan * Profession; Reasearch Scientist (Bioinformatics Specialist) * School; Tokyo Univ. of Sci. * Your goals in the Fedora Project; Fedora translation in Japanese * Historical qualifications o What other projects have you worked on in the past? Debian JP Project develnews translation o What level and type of computer skills do you have? Bioinformatics scientist specializing data mining using R, S-PLUS and Perl. o What other skills do you have that might be applicable? Statistics computing and datamining using R, and S-PLUS Programming using Perl, Ruby, Python and Java. Web site construction; LAMP, XOOPS, Wiki, Blog and Ruby on Rails Language; Japanese, English, French and Germany o What makes you an excellent match for the project? Translation in Japanese * GPG KEYID and fingerprint [kazuo at freeparis2 ~]$ gpg --fingerprint 3E159E3F pub 1024D/3E159E3F 2008-01-05 Key fingerprint = D064 929C C6B6 D1C4 CD66 152B 5320 B0E6 3E15 9E3F uid Kazuo Ishii (Fodora) < freeparis2 at gmail.com> sub 2048g/3853ECD4 2008-01-05 -- ???? ??Ruby?? freeparis2 at gmail.com http://officeparis.org/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 5 19:11:37 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:11:37 -0500 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199550598.20753.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199545971.9049.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199550598.20753.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199560297.3652.133.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 01:29 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 16:12 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: > > Upgrade the FAQ to a more formal Guide? This includes a lot of intro, > > and why is SELinux what it is, but that would mostly be a rephrasing / > > styling of the content out there on the different wiki's, blogs, ... > > Upgrade the FAQ to a formal guide seems like the best way to go. > > I checked all the links and rearranged the words. I couldn't add much > of Walsh's stuff into it because it didn't seem to fit. There was a lot > of use case scenario's in Walsh's posts and while thats great for a > guide in a simple FAQ it would not explain it sufficiently it seemed so > I didn't add it into there. > > The details in the FAQ still seem to work. I don't modify selinux to > much since I don't understand the scripting of it, I left those bits > alone since I couldn't verify or change anything in the guides. Yes, perhaps with a dedicated maintainer -- woohoo, Marc! :-) -- this is the way to go. It would probably mean reformatting into subject matter areas as opposed to the Q&A format. That's mostly a matter of copy + paste + DocBook tagging. I bet that if you go over some of Dan's material with a system (preferably a VM!) in hand, you'll understand a lot more of it very quickly. I actually wrote a smidge of policy the other day and put it in place to test something at work, and his instructions were on the spot! > P.S. If we are writing it as a guide can we talk to Walsh to get some > ideas on use cases? Yes, he doesn't subscribe to f-docs-l, but you certainly should email him and get him involved. You might want to lay out some specific questions for him, as I would imagine he's very busy working on policy, but from all accounts and prior experience, he's an extremely affable and helpful guy. He may even point you to other outside docs that could be helpful for you to understand SELinux better, and then write some cases yourself. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jan 5 19:27:47 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:27:47 -0500 Subject: Self-Introduction: Kazuo Ishii In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1199561267.3652.137.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 01:41 +0900, ishii kazuo wrote: > Hello, > > My name is Kazuo Ishii. I am working in the unuv. for research in > pharmacy and I am a bioinformatics scientist for statistics computing > using R/S-PLUS in Linux OS. I am maintaining some official and private > websites about datamining, which are described in Japanese, English > and French. Nice to meet you, Kazuo. We look forward to seeing your translation work. You'll probably meet (among others) Noriko Mizumoto, who works on the Translation Quick Start Guide as well as "ja" translations for documentation. Glad to have you aboard! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sat Jan 5 22:49:33 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 15:49:33 -0700 Subject: Editquew like problems Message-ID: <4780097D.20004@zianet.com> I want permission to edit a wiki page. I tried to join a group waiting for this and the web page is broken. Or seems to be to me. So I will just wait until something happens I guess. No chance to write other wise. I even have a place on the wiki. I can't edit it :-) Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From miles at brennan.id.au Sat Jan 5 23:20:32 2008 From: miles at brennan.id.au (Miles Brennan) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 09:20:32 +1000 (EST) Subject: The Brennan Home Server HOWTO In-Reply-To: <200712241200.40429.gayleard@eircom.net> References: <200712220253.38135.gayleard@eircom.net> <200712240025.32192.gayleard@eircom.net> <1198466650.8985.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200712241200.40429.gayleard@eircom.net> Message-ID: <50291.121.222.27.41.1199575232.squirrel@www.brennan.id.au> > I'll certainly look at that, > but my experience of the system-config scripts > (particularly system-config-printer and system-config-network) > is not good. > They seem to me to be simply add a layer of obfuscation > which makes it harder to diagnose any problems that arise. > > And I certainly don't think it is any part of a HOWTO > to try to improve the system. > > But I will look at it in due course, > if I am updating the HOWTO. Sorry for my late reply on this, I am changing ISP plans at the moment and am currently disconnected at home between plans. I am happy if Tim would like to work on updating the HOWTO and if there's anyone else who would like to offer him a hand. I propose it would be easier to update the document in HTML format first, then move it into the wiki once the chapters are reviewed. I have the domain www.linuxgeeks.org available on a server to upload any HTML pages for review, if this would make it easier for basic HTML reviewing. You can use it as a "scratch pad" if need be. Regards, Miles From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sat Jan 5 23:58:15 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 08:58:15 +0900 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199560297.3652.133.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199545971.9049.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199550598.20753.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199560297.3652.133.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199577495.20753.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 14:11 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 01:29 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 16:12 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: > > > Upgrade the FAQ to a more formal Guide? This includes a lot of intro, > > > and why is SELinux what it is, but that would mostly be a rephrasing / > > > styling of the content out there on the different wiki's, blogs, ... > > > > Upgrade the FAQ to a formal guide seems like the best way to go. > > > > I checked all the links and rearranged the words. I couldn't add much > > of Walsh's stuff into it because it didn't seem to fit. There was a lot > > of use case scenario's in Walsh's posts and while thats great for a > > guide in a simple FAQ it would not explain it sufficiently it seemed so > > I didn't add it into there. > > > > The details in the FAQ still seem to work. I don't modify selinux to > > much since I don't understand the scripting of it, I left those bits > > alone since I couldn't verify or change anything in the guides. > > Yes, perhaps with a dedicated maintainer -- woohoo, Marc! :-) -- this is > the way to go. It would probably mean reformatting into subject matter > areas as opposed to the Q&A format. That's mostly a matter of copy + > paste + DocBook tagging. > > I bet that if you go over some of Dan's material with a system > (preferably a VM!) in hand, you'll understand a lot more of it very > quickly. I actually wrote a smidge of policy the other day and put it > in place to test something at work, and his instructions were on the > spot! > > > P.S. If we are writing it as a guide can we talk to Walsh to get some > > ideas on use cases? > > Yes, he doesn't subscribe to f-docs-l, but you certainly should email > him and get him involved. You might want to lay out some specific > questions for him, as I would imagine he's very busy working on policy, > but from all accounts and prior experience, he's an extremely affable > and helpful guy. He may even point you to other outside docs that could > be helpful for you to understand SELinux better, and then write some > cases yourself. Did you want it created in docbook or on the wiki then to docbook? Cheers, Marc From dan at new2linux.com Sun Jan 6 00:24:17 2008 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:24:17 -0500 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Dan O'Brien wrote: >> >> >> Marc, >> >> It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I >> can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the >> Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to >> steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary >> bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late >> now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a >> section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same >> across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 >> sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example): >> >> generic content here >> Gnome >> * customizing >> * working with media >> * etc >> KDE >> * customizing >> * working with media >> * etc >> Xfce >> ... >> >> and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user >> could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice. >> >> I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? >> I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple >> weeks ago. >> >> > > I don't have a working xfce install anymore since my other computer > that uses it died. I don't know what is in KDE either since I haven't > used kde in ages. I'll install xfce and go from there if you want to > do the kde work? > > Cheers, > > Marc > All, I've Updated the Customizing page with KDE specific things. Also I adjusted the Managing Software with Pirut pages as well, to show how to start Pirut in gnome and kde. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut More updates soon Regards, Dan O'Brien From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 6 00:44:45 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 09:44:45 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:24 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Dan O'Brien wrote: > >> > >> > >> Marc, > >> > >> It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I > >> can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the > >> Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to > >> steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary > >> bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late > >> now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a > >> section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same > >> across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 > >> sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example): > >> > >> generic content here > >> Gnome > >> * customizing > >> * working with media > >> * etc > >> KDE > >> * customizing > >> * working with media > >> * etc > >> Xfce > >> ... > >> > >> and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user > >> could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice. > >> > >> I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? > >> I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple > >> weeks ago. > >> > >> > > > > I don't have a working xfce install anymore since my other computer > > that uses it died. I don't know what is in KDE either since I haven't > > used kde in ages. I'll install xfce and go from there if you want to > > do the kde work? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marc > > > All, > I've Updated the Customizing page with KDE specific things. Also I > adjusted the Managing Software with Pirut pages as well, to show how to > start Pirut in gnome and kde. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut > > More updates soon > Regards, > Dan O'Brien > What other pages do you think need to be altered? Cheers, Marc From dan at new2linux.com Sun Jan 6 00:43:53 2008 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:43:53 -0500 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:24 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > >> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> >>> Dan O'Brien wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Marc, >>>> >>>> It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I >>>> can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the >>>> Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to >>>> steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary >>>> bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late >>>> now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a >>>> section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same >>>> across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 >>>> sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example): >>>> >>>> generic content here >>>> Gnome >>>> * customizing >>>> * working with media >>>> * etc >>>> KDE >>>> * customizing >>>> * working with media >>>> * etc >>>> Xfce >>>> ... >>>> >>>> and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user >>>> could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice. >>>> >>>> I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? >>>> I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple >>>> weeks ago. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> I don't have a working xfce install anymore since my other computer >>> that uses it died. I don't know what is in KDE either since I haven't >>> used kde in ages. I'll install xfce and go from there if you want to >>> do the kde work? >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Marc >>> >>> >> All, >> I've Updated the Customizing page with KDE specific things. Also I >> adjusted the Managing Software with Pirut pages as well, to show how to >> start Pirut in gnome and kde. >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut >> >> More updates soon >> Regards, >> Dan O'Brien >> >> > > What other pages do you think need to be altered? > > Cheers, > > Marc > > Games - I don't have any installed at the moment, so I'm not sure if there are any Gnome / KDE differences, but the page does say "Default Gnome Games" Multimedia - All the menu drill downs seem to be gnome specific (eg. CD Player "/Applications > Sound & Video > CD Player"/ Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling that bit in later) Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well. None of these are huge things, but for completeness should be touched up. Regards, Dan O'Brien // From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 6 11:29:42 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 20:29:42 +0900 Subject: Selinux guide Message-ID: <1199618983.20753.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey All, It seems like someone was eager awhile ago http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SELinux has been put up already. Should we use that link or change it to SELinuxGuide? I'm going to start creating the pages over the next week or so. I would like some input from everyone as to what to add. Cheers, Marc From k5di at zianet.com Sun Jan 6 12:38:43 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 05:38:43 -0700 Subject: Self Introduction Message-ID: <4780CBD3.8050905@zianet.com> I have done the things needed to get a CLA in that part of the Doc works. I just verified it works. I now need permission to edit a wiki and the rules say that a member of that group has to add me to the list. My wiki name is KarlLarsen and my email address is k5di at zianet.com Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 6 12:40:57 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 21:40:57 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:43 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:24 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > >> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> > >>> Dan O'Brien wrote: > >>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Marc, > >>>> > >>>> It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I > >>>> can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the > >>>> Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to > >>>> steer away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary > >>>> bits tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late > >>>> now, but maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a > >>>> section that covers all the generic things (things that are the same > >>>> across each of the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 > >>>> sections for everything else, ie (and this is just an example): > >>>> > >>>> generic content here > >>>> Gnome > >>>> * customizing > >>>> * working with media > >>>> * etc > >>>> KDE > >>>> * customizing > >>>> * working with media > >>>> * etc > >>>> Xfce > >>>> ... > >>>> > >>>> and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user > >>>> could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice. > >>>> > >>>> I'll get started on filling the missing bits, are their any requests? > >>>> I haven't seen any responses to the requests post Marc made a couple > >>>> weeks ago. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>> I don't have a working xfce install anymore since my other computer > >>> that uses it died. I don't know what is in KDE either since I haven't > >>> used kde in ages. I'll install xfce and go from there if you want to > >>> do the kde work? > >>> > >>> Cheers, > >>> > >>> Marc > >>> > >>> > >> All, > >> I've Updated the Customizing page with KDE specific things. Also I > >> adjusted the Managing Software with Pirut pages as well, to show how to > >> start Pirut in gnome and kde. > >> > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Customizing > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Pirut > >> > >> More updates soon > >> Regards, > >> Dan O'Brien > >> > >> > > > > What other pages do you think need to be altered? > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marc > > > Games - I don't have any installed at the moment, so I'm not sure if > there are any Gnome / KDE differences, but the page does say "Default > Gnome Games" I just added some stuff to this after install the kdegames package. I don't think there is an xfce specific games package so I have included an install explanation. > Multimedia - All the menu drill downs seem to be gnome specific (eg. CD > Player "/Applications > Sound & Video > CD Player"/ I don't have KDE installed so can someone who does use it tell me where the locations are? I believe XFCE has a similar menu layout as to KDE. > Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the > financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling > that bit in later) Are you still able to do this or do you want me to do it? > Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well. I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the same doesn't it? Cheers, Marc From couf at skynet.be Sun Jan 6 12:58:40 2008 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 13:58:40 +0100 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <4780CBD3.8050905@zianet.com> References: <4780CBD3.8050905@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1199624320.12242.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> Op zondag 06-01-2008 om 05:38 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Karl Larsen: > I have done the things needed to get a CLA in that part of the Doc > works. I just verified it works. I now need permission to edit a wiki > and the rules say that a member of that group has to add me to the list. > > My wiki name is KarlLarsen and my email address is k5di at zianet.com > > Karl > Hi Karl, just added you to the EditGroup. You should now be set to edit the wiki. Be sure to a look at [1] and to update your page[2] with the appropriate information Enjoy, Bart [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarlLarsen -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From k5di at zianet.com Sun Jan 6 20:06:18 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 13:06:18 -0700 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <1199624320.12242.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> References: <4780CBD3.8050905@zianet.com> <1199624320.12242.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <478134BA.7050604@zianet.com> Bart Couvreur wrote: > Op zondag 06-01-2008 om 05:38 uur [tijdzone -0700], schreef Karl Larsen: > >> I have done the things needed to get a CLA in that part of the Doc >> works. I just verified it works. I now need permission to edit a wiki >> and the rules say that a member of that group has to add me to the list. >> >> My wiki name is KarlLarsen and my email address is k5di at zianet.com >> >> Karl >> >> > Hi Karl, > > just added you to the EditGroup. You should now be set to edit the wiki. > Be sure to a look at [1] and to update your page[2] with the appropriate > information > > Enjoy, > > Bart > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/WikiEditing > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarlLarsen > > Many Thanks Bart. I will do the reading you suggest. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From freeparis2 at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 14:23:57 2008 From: freeparis2 at gmail.com (ishii kazuo) Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2008 23:23:57 +0900 Subject: Self-Introduction: Kazuo Ishii Message-ID: Paul; Thank you for your quick reply. I will make progress step-by-step in Japanese translation. And I hope the improvement of Fedora Japanese environment. Kazuo Ishii, Ph.D. The Linux Users #411141 GPG Key fingerprint = D064 929C C6B6 D1C4 CD66 152B 5320 B0E6 3E15 9E3F ??Ruby?? freeparis2 at gmail.com http://officeparis.org/blog/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 6 14:28:47 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:28:47 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199629727.20753.52.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > > > > > Games - I don't have any installed at the moment, so I'm not sure if > > there are any Gnome / KDE differences, but the page does say "Default > > Gnome Games" > > I just added some stuff to this after install the kdegames package. I > don't think there is an xfce specific games package so I have included > an install explanation. > > > Multimedia - All the menu drill downs seem to be gnome specific (eg. CD > > Player "/Applications > Sound & Video > CD Player"/ > > I don't have KDE installed so can someone who does use it tell me where > the locations are? I believe XFCE has a similar menu layout as to KDE. > > > Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the > > financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling > > that bit in later) > > Are you still able to do this or do you want me to do it? > > > Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well. > > I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the > same doesn't it? On a side note is there anyone from the KDE Sig or someone that uses KDE regularly? If not can we contact them so that we can get some feedback as to areas that need altering and verification about certain aspects. Also can we have a chat to someone who runs xfce exclusively about areas that need altering? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 6 14:38:37 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:38:37 +0900 Subject: FAQ = F7 Message-ID: <1199630317.20753.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, Do we have a new FAQ the current one linked to http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ points to the Fedora 7 FAQ? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 6 14:43:19 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 23:43:19 +0900 Subject: Selinux guide In-Reply-To: <1199618983.20753.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199618983.20753.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199630599.20753.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 20:29 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey All, > > It seems like someone was eager awhile ago > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SELinux has been put up > already. Should we use that link or change it to SELinuxGuide? > > I'm going to start creating the pages over the next week or so. I would > like some input from everyone as to what to add. Just a quick email to say that I've added some stuff to the front page with the intention and other basic information. Can people have a read of it and comment so that we are all on the same page? If you think it requires further information or elaborating please post here so it can be discussed and we can come to a consensus on what the layout/content/methodology will be. Cheers, Marc From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 17:29:55 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 12:29:55 -0500 Subject: Meeting times Message-ID: <1199640595.2356.65.camel@localhost.localdomain> OK, we have a few people left to fill out the meeting time matrix: John Babich Bob Jensen Jared Smith http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingTimeMatrix Please go to that page and indicate in the chart where you *can* attend a meeting, so we can get off the ground the first available time after FUDCon. I know some of us will be there, and we should certainly make sure any of the new folks who haven't met get acquainted. Thanks guys! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 19:00:52 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 14:00:52 -0500 Subject: FAQ = F7 In-Reply-To: <1199630317.20753.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199630317.20753.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199646052.2356.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 23:38 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Do we have a new FAQ the current one linked to > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ points to the Fedora 7 FAQ? I looked around a bit and started wondering why there's such a multiplicity of pages answering questions about Fedora. The purpose of the release notes is to answer release-specific questions, for instance, while the installation guide should answer question specific to installation. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ -- makes a lot of sense, general information about the project and the distribution. http://fedoraproject.org/Fedora7/FAQ -- Reproduces information from the regular FAQ, the release notes, the installation guide, and other sources, and is clearly a maintenance drag http://fedoraproject.org/Fedora/FAQ/Glossary -- Should either be subsumed into the Jargon Buster at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/jargon-buster/ or vice versa The more documents created for the same purposes, the more maintenance costs we create. Maybe we can have a few people looking for easy wiki work start some discussions here (by replying to this message, perhaps?) on how to streamline our wiki docs in a way that eases maintenance and delivers the right information in the right channels. If that includes bugs filed against any formal docs, so much the better! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 19:04:12 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 14:04:12 -0500 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1199646252.2356.88.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-01-04 at 21:30 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > It seems that you've gotten quite a bit done on the DUG. One thing I > can't help but notice is a lot seems to be Gnome specific (the > Customizing page for example). I'm a gnome user myself and try to steer > away from KDE myself but I'd be happy to fill in the necessary bits > tonight/tomorrow, but what about xfce? It's probably too late now, but > maybe in the next version of the DUG we should have a section that > covers all the generic things (things that are the same across each of > the desktop environments) and branch off into 3 sections for everything > else, ie (and this is just an example): > > generic content here > Gnome > * customizing > * working with media > * etc > KDE > * customizing > * working with media > * etc > Xfce > ... > > and so on down the line. This may make for an easier read as a user > could jump to the section covering their desktop of choice. You may want to drill back in the mailing list archives a few weeks or so, but I think we did discuss this. Although it's roughly six of one, a half dozen of the other, this organization is probably easier to maintain: * Generic Content * Customizing ** GNOME ** KDE ** XFCE * Working With Media ** GNOME ** KDE ** XFCE ... This probably allows easier beat-style spreading of the subject matter. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dan at new2linux.com Sun Jan 6 19:01:52 2008 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 14:01:52 -0500 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> > >> Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the >> financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling >> that bit in later) >> > > Are you still able to do this or do you want me to do it? > I've just finished adding this. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Financial > >> Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well. >> > > I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the > same doesn't it? > Yes it runs the same in both KDE and Gnome (not sure about xfce though) the only difference is the location of the menu item to launch the application. I'll fix this if you like? > Cheers, > > Marc > > Regards, Dan O'Brien From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 19:23:42 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 14:23:42 -0500 Subject: Selinux guide In-Reply-To: <1199630599.20753.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199618983.20753.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199630599.20753.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199647422.2356.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 23:43 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 20:29 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Hey All, > > > > It seems like someone was eager awhile ago > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SELinux has been put up > > already. Should we use that link or change it to SELinuxGuide? > > > > I'm going to start creating the pages over the next week or so. I would > > like some input from everyone as to what to add. > > Just a quick email to say that I've added some stuff to the front page > with the intention and other basic information. Can people have a read > of it and comment so that we are all on the same page? > > If you think it requires further information or elaborating please post > here so it can be discussed and we can come to a consensus on what the > layout/content/methodology will be. I think you may want to revisit the Approach. For example, I don't think there are really any parallels between SELinux and MS Windows functionality. And if you assume that the user has no familiarity with UNIX/Linux concepts (which includes fundamentals), the guide needs to explain how to log in, how to open a terminal, etc. You might want to look at the existing documentation from Dan Walsh, et al., and try to condense that into a set of objectives you want the user to be able to achieve after reading each section of the documentation. This will give you better coverage than just throwing a set of use case "bricks" at the reader without seating them in a mortar of more fundamental practices. For example: A user who finishes reading this guide should be able to: 1. Understand how the Linux kernel, policy, and user tools work together to implement SELinux in Fedora 2. Understand the differences and interactions between legacy UNIX access controls and SELinux 3. Determine, set, and understand the operational mode of SELinux in a Fedora system 4. Determine, set, and understand object and file labels 5. Understand how to perform an automatic relabeling of a file system ... Using this sort of objective-based criterion, you can figure out what skills you need to cover, and usually in what order, to make a guide work, even if you have to condense information from a lot of different sources. Once you have a general organization like this, you can have it influence your outline for the doc. Hope this helps. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 6 21:32:17 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:32:17 +0900 Subject: Selinux guide In-Reply-To: <1199647422.2356.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199618983.20753.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199630599.20753.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199647422.2356.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199655137.20753.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 14:23 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 23:43 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 20:29 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > Hey All, > > > > > > It seems like someone was eager awhile ago > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SELinux has been put up > > > already. Should we use that link or change it to SELinuxGuide? > > > > > > I'm going to start creating the pages over the next week or so. I would > > > like some input from everyone as to what to add. > > > > Just a quick email to say that I've added some stuff to the front page > > with the intention and other basic information. Can people have a read > > of it and comment so that we are all on the same page? > > > > If you think it requires further information or elaborating please post > > here so it can be discussed and we can come to a consensus on what the > > layout/content/methodology will be. > > I think you may want to revisit the Approach. For example, I don't > think there are really any parallels between SELinux and MS Windows > functionality. And if you assume that the user has no familiarity with > UNIX/Linux concepts (which includes fundamentals), the guide needs to > explain how to log in, how to open a terminal, etc. You might want to > look at the existing documentation from Dan Walsh, et al., and try to > condense that into a set of objectives you want the user to be able to > achieve after reading each section of the documentation. This will give > you better coverage than just throwing a set of use case "bricks" at the > reader without seating them in a mortar of more fundamental practices. > > For example: > > A user who finishes reading this guide should be able to: > 1. Understand how the Linux kernel, policy, and user tools work > together to implement SELinux in Fedora > 2. Understand the differences and interactions between legacy UNIX > access controls and SELinux > 3. Determine, set, and understand the operational mode of SELinux in a > Fedora system > 4. Determine, set, and understand object and file labels > 5. Understand how to perform an automatic relabeling of a file system > ... > While I think the points above are great I think to tie it all together the use cases would be of major importance. My view would be explain basic functionality in 'x' chapter's including concepts, tools and reasons. Have use case scenario's to 'paint a picture' of how to extend one's basic knowledge to examples of what is capable of being done with selinux. (Max seems to have a lot of those and I think that talking to him will be integral) > Using this sort of objective-based criterion, you can figure out what > skills you need to cover, and usually in what order, to make a guide > work, even if you have to condense information from a lot of different > sources. Once you have a general organization like this, you can have > it influence your outline for the doc. Hope this helps. It does help a lot thanks for the feedback. Should we take the FAQ and amalgamate it into this guide, it will use information from the FAQ anyway. What is left over can be created as a FAQ of this guide? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 6 21:35:35 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:35:35 +0900 Subject: FAQ = F7 In-Reply-To: <1199646052.2356.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199630317.20753.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199646052.2356.84.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199655335.20753.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 14:00 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 23:38 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Do we have a new FAQ the current one linked to > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ points to the Fedora 7 FAQ? > > I looked around a bit and started wondering why there's such a > multiplicity of pages answering questions about Fedora. The purpose of > the release notes is to answer release-specific questions, for instance, > while the installation guide should answer question specific to > installation. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAQ -- makes a lot of sense, general > information about the project and the distribution. > +1 > http://fedoraproject.org/Fedora7/FAQ -- Reproduces information from the > regular FAQ, the release notes, the installation guide, and other > sources, and is clearly a maintenance drag > Agree the release notes should cover general questions, installation guide obviously installation and regular FAQ distribution questions. > http://fedoraproject.org/Fedora/FAQ/Glossary -- Should either be > subsumed into the Jargon Buster at > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/jargon-buster/ or vice versa > > The more documents created for the same purposes, the more maintenance > costs we create. Maybe we can have a few people looking for easy wiki > work start some discussions here (by replying to this message, perhaps?) > on how to streamline our wiki docs in a way that eases maintenance and > delivers the right information in the right channels. If that includes > bugs filed against any formal docs, so much the better! Should we, have we removed it? I would say the jargon-buster is better since it has the perception of containing jargon. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 6 21:39:43 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:39:43 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199646252.2356.88.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <46899.192.168.1.1.1198217665.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198234568.7443.14.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <1199646252.2356.88.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199655583.20753.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> I added some OpenOffice template links in the openoffice page[1] I checked licenses and they should be ok. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Office Cheers, Marc From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 21:52:30 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 00:52:30 +0300 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 6, 2008 10:01 PM, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > > > > >> Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the > >> financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling > >> that bit in later) > >> > > > > Are you still able to do this or do you want me to do it? > > > I've just finished adding this. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Financial > > > >> Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well. > >> > > > > I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the > > same doesn't it? > > > Yes it runs the same in both KDE and Gnome (not sure about xfce though) > the only difference is the location of the menu item to launch the > application. I'll fix this if you like? Xfce uses knetworkmanager also. Love, John From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jan 6 23:06:16 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 18:06:16 -0500 Subject: Selinux guide In-Reply-To: <1199655137.20753.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199618983.20753.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199630599.20753.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199647422.2356.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199655137.20753.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199660776.2356.186.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 06:32 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 14:23 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Using this sort of objective-based criterion, you can figure out what > > skills you need to cover, and usually in what order, to make a guide > > work, even if you have to condense information from a lot of different > > sources. Once you have a general organization like this, you can have > > it influence your outline for the doc. Hope this helps. > > It does help a lot thanks for the feedback. Should we take the FAQ and > amalgamate it into this guide, it will use information from the FAQ > anyway. What is left over can be created as a FAQ of this guide? My personal feeling is that the FAQ was great and indispensable when it was created, back around FC3 when we were still trying to rally people around all it could do. Plus, I think Karsten cut off a huge chunk of time (of which he was already short) to put this together with some other Red Hat principals like Dan, because he saw it was necessary to get the info some publicity. I think those who are not sold on it at this point are sticking their heads in the sand and you should probably graduate this to doing a real guide. :-) As we've already noted, the material that's in the FAQ is still 75-90% very applicable because of its general nature. In some cases the tools are more robust, and guidance needs to be added or amended (like setroubleshoot/sealert or system-config-selinux). One thing I hear often from people is "How do I interpret this AVC message? How do I know what to do about it?" I'm sure there are others you can pick up on fedoraforum.org, and use them to feed the use cases, and thus the supporting outline material I alluded to earlier. It's great that you're interested in doing this work -- it will probably be read by thousands, SERIOUSLY! :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 7 05:37:36 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2008 21:37:36 -0800 Subject: Selinux guide In-Reply-To: <1199660776.2356.186.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199618983.20753.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199630599.20753.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199647422.2356.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199655137.20753.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199660776.2356.186.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199684256.15880.32.camel@erato.phig.org> On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 18:06 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > My personal feeling is that the FAQ was great and indispensable when it > was created, back around FC3 when we were still trying to rally people > around all it could do. Plus, I think Karsten cut off a huge chunk of > time (of which he was already short) to put this together with some > other Red Hat principals like Dan, because he saw it was necessary to > get the info some publicity. +1 The SELinux FAQ was only intended to fill the gap of understanding at the time. For me, it was useful as a way to get ahead of the curve on the Red Hat SELinux Guide (for RHEL 4.) I vote we churn the FAQ into the compost pile, pull from it what is fertile, and move on to a fuller guide. The SELinux developers are interested in seeing that, I'd reckon. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 7 10:43:15 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:43:15 +0900 Subject: Selinux guide In-Reply-To: <1199660776.2356.186.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199618983.20753.40.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199630599.20753.57.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199647422.2356.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199655137.20753.68.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199660776.2356.186.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199702595.20753.86.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 18:06 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 06:32 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Sun, 2008-01-06 at 14:23 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > Using this sort of objective-based criterion, you can figure out what > > > skills you need to cover, and usually in what order, to make a guide > > > work, even if you have to condense information from a lot of different > > > sources. Once you have a general organization like this, you can have > > > it influence your outline for the doc. Hope this helps. > > > > It does help a lot thanks for the feedback. Should we take the FAQ and > > amalgamate it into this guide, it will use information from the FAQ > > anyway. What is left over can be created as a FAQ of this guide? > > My personal feeling is that the FAQ was great and indispensable when it > was created, back around FC3 when we were still trying to rally people > around all it could do. Plus, I think Karsten cut off a huge chunk of > time (of which he was already short) to put this together with some > other Red Hat principals like Dan, because he saw it was necessary to > get the info some publicity. > > I think those who are not sold on it at this point are sticking their > heads in the sand and you should probably graduate this to doing a real > guide. :-) As we've already noted, the material that's in the FAQ is > still 75-90% very applicable because of its general nature. In some > cases the tools are more robust, and guidance needs to be added or > amended (like setroubleshoot/sealert or system-config-selinux). > > One thing I hear often from people is "How do I interpret this AVC > message? How do I know what to do about it?" I'm sure there are others > you can pick up on fedoraforum.org, and use them to feed the use cases, > and thus the supporting outline material I alluded to earlier. It's > great that you're interested in doing this work -- it will probably be > read by thousands, SERIOUSLY! :-) Way to put some pressure on me performing :) Trying some of the things in the selinux-faq it is definitely relevant and important hence my want to add it as a section since there are points there that will solve questions quickly. Not the whole lot but some of it. I will need significant help with it hence the request for feedback. Cheers, Marc From vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi Mon Jan 7 12:41:27 2008 From: vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi (Ville-Pekka Vainio) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 14:41:27 +0200 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200801071441.27870.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Marc Wiriadisastra kirjoitti: > On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:43 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well. > > I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the > same doesn't it? You may already know this, but as a KDE user I'd just like to point out that currently in Fedora 8 Gnome's nm-applet is used also in KDE, because knetworkmanager doesn't yet support the new NetworkManager version we have in Fedora 8. -- Ville-Pekka Vainio From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 7 13:25:20 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 22:25:20 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <200801071441.27870.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200801071441.27870.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <1199712320.20753.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 14:41 +0200, Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra kirjoitti: > > On Sat, 2008-01-05 at 19:43 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well. > > > > I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the > > same doesn't it? > > You may already know this, but as a KDE user I'd just like to point out that > currently in Fedora 8 Gnome's nm-applet is used also in KDE, because > knetworkmanager doesn't yet support the new NetworkManager version we have in > Fedora 8. Is that still going to be the case for F-9? On a side note I added some info to the wifi section and started some info on the desktop sharing. I'm hoping someone can upload the KDE icon for desktop sharing. Cheers, Marc http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringInternet From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 7 14:04:40 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 23:04:40 +0900 Subject: KDE critique (DUG) Message-ID: <1199714680.20753.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey All, I had a quick chat to Rex about the DUG and he's going to post to the KDE SIG to see if someone is willing to work with us to make sure the KDE parts are all correct. Since with F-9 XFCE will actually be a spin we will need to consider the default XFCE settings etc. Can someone email whoever takes care of the package or if there is a SIG the SIG so we can liase with them. I'm hoping to make the DUG more inclusive so users won't have to try and figure out whats going on. [offtopic] The selinux guide I will work on but my main priority right now is the DUG unless someone wants to finish it off reasonably quick so I can start work on the selinux guide. :) [/offtopic] Cheers, Marc P.S. Dan I also said they could contact you if needed. If I receive anything I'll forward it to the mailing list. I did advise them to try and mail to the mailing list and use us as a backup option. (probably the wrong thing to do) From jmbabich at gmail.com Mon Jan 7 14:23:22 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:23:22 +0300 Subject: KDE critique (DUG) In-Reply-To: <1199714680.20753.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199714680.20753.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0801070623m627f570fmdeb9c1e2ee012658@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 7, 2008 5:04 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey All, > > I had a quick chat to Rex about the DUG and he's going to post to the > KDE SIG to see if someone is willing to work with us to make sure the > KDE parts are all correct. > Thanks for taking the initiative on that. If someone can help from the KDE SIG, that would be great. > Since with F-9 XFCE will actually be a spin we will need to consider the > default XFCE settings etc. Can someone email whoever takes care of the > package or if there is a SIG the SIG so we can liase with them. > I personally use Xfce and am glad to hear that there will be a F9 spin devoted to it. I'll see if there is an Xfce SIG and get back to you. > I'm hoping to make the DUG more inclusive so users won't have to try and > figure out whats going on. > Do you mean by "inclusive" that users will be directed clearly to the section relevant to their needs, such as common apps and then the appropriate GNOME, KDE or Xfce families of apps? Strictly speaking, I am on vacation until 26 January, but I'll do what I can given the craziness at the moment. Best Regards, John Babich Lead Writer, F8 DUG (with some very able assistance) From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 7 14:16:39 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 19:46:39 +0530 Subject: KDE critique (DUG) In-Reply-To: <1199714680.20753.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199714680.20753.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <47823447.9040100@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey All, > > I had a quick chat to Rex about the DUG and he's going to post to the > KDE SIG to see if someone is willing to work with us to make sure the > KDE parts are all correct. > > Since with F-9 XFCE will actually be a spin we will need to consider the > default XFCE settings etc. Can someone email whoever takes care of the > package or if there is a SIG the SIG so we can liase with them. There is no SIG yet. I am doing the work. The latest kickstart file is at http://sundaram.fedorapeople.org/livecd-fedora-8-xfce.ks The defaults as of now is the same as the package defaults (ie) vanilla upstream Xfce . Rahul From dan at new2linux.com Mon Jan 7 14:40:16 2008 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 09:40:16 -0500 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478239D0.6020501@new2linux.com> John Babich wrote: > On Jan 6, 2008 10:01 PM, Dan O'Brien wrote: > >> >> >>>> Financial - Kmymoney still needs to be filled in ( I've never used the >>>> financial software before, but I'd intended on installing it and filling >>>> that bit in later) >>>> >>>> >>> Are you still able to do this or do you want me to do it? >>> >>> >> I've just finished adding this. >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Financial >> >>>> Network - has a few Gnome specific menu drill downs on it as well. >>>> >>>> >>> I think NetworkManager is the default on both? Knetworkmanager runs the >>> same doesn't it? >>> >>> >> Yes it runs the same in both KDE and Gnome (not sure about xfce though) >> the only difference is the location of the menu item to launch the >> application. I'll fix this if you like? >> > > Xfce uses knetworkmanager also. > > Love, > > John > OK, I'll touch up the 'Connecting to the internet' page later today or this evening to point the user to the menu location of network manager in each desktop environment. On a side note, does anyone have a list of outstanding items for the DUG? My fiancee and I are expecting a baby any day now and I'd like to knock out as much as possible before then. Regards, Dan O'Brien From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 7 14:32:23 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:02:23 +0530 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> John Babich wrote: > > Xfce uses knetworkmanager also. Not sure what you mean by that. Upstream doesn't and Fedora Xfce packages doesn't either. It is possible to run either NetworkManager-gnome or knetworkmanager in Xfce but that isn't the default setup. Rahul From vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi Mon Jan 7 15:48:49 2008 From: vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi (Ville-Pekka Vainio) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2008 17:48:49 +0200 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199712320.20753.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <200801071441.27870.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> <1199712320.20753.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200801071748.50063.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Marc Wiriadisastra kirjoitti: > On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 14:41 +0200, Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote: > > You may already know this, but as a KDE user I'd just like to point out > > that currently in Fedora 8 Gnome's nm-applet is used also in KDE, because > > knetworkmanager doesn't yet support the new NetworkManager version we > > have in Fedora 8. > > Is that still going to be the case for F-9? I don't know, maybe someone from the KDE SIG would know this... I believe Fedora 8 is using a development (svn) version of NetworkManager 0.7. I guess KNetworkManager will be compatible with that once it's officially released? -- Ville-Pekka Vainio From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 7 21:26:48 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:26:48 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2008-01-07 at 20:02 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > John Babich wrote: > > > > > Xfce uses knetworkmanager also. > > Not sure what you mean by that. Upstream doesn't and Fedora Xfce > packages doesn't either. It is possible to run either > NetworkManager-gnome or knetworkmanager in Xfce but that isn't the > default setup. > > Rahul > It must have been the fact that originally I had Gnome installed and when I installed XFCE NetworkManager showed up. On a default what is the situation with this Rahul? Does it not have anything if so when packaged does it include a 'default'? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 7 21:28:40 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:28:40 +0900 Subject: KDE critique (DUG) In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0801070623m627f570fmdeb9c1e2ee012658@mail.gmail.com> References: <1199714680.20753.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0801070623m627f570fmdeb9c1e2ee012658@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1199741320.20753.104.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > Strictly speaking, I am on vacation until 26 January, but I'll do what > I can given the craziness at the moment. > > Best Regards, > > John Babich > Lead Writer, F8 DUG (with some very able assistance) > Stop checking your emails John :) I wouldn't worry to much about doing anything on the DUG until you get back since there is no real rush I don't think. Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 7 21:23:27 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 02:53:27 +0530 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > It must have been the fact that originally I had Gnome installed and > when I installed XFCE NetworkManager showed up. That is likely. On a default what is > the situation with this Rahul? Does it not have anything if so when > packaged does it include a 'default'? Xfce doesn't have a NetworkManager frontend or any other tool for any kind of network management.I include NetworkManager-gnome by default in the Xfce spin I am working on however. Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 7 21:38:43 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:38:43 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 02:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > It must have been the fact that originally I had Gnome installed and > > when I installed XFCE NetworkManager showed up. > > That is likely. > > On a default what is > > the situation with this Rahul? Does it not have anything if so when > > packaged does it include a 'default'? > > Xfce doesn't have a NetworkManager frontend or any other tool for any > kind of network management.I include NetworkManager-gnome by default in > the Xfce spin I am working on however. > > Rahul > Ok thanks for that, I wanted to make sure that the direction of the docs was correct. Cheers, Marc From dan at new2linux.com Tue Jan 8 01:11:59 2008 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2008 20:11:59 -0500 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 02:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> >> >>> It must have been the fact that originally I had Gnome installed and >>> when I installed XFCE NetworkManager showed up. >>> >> That is likely. >> >> On a default what is >> >>> the situation with this Rahul? Does it not have anything if so when >>> packaged does it include a 'default'? >>> >> Xfce doesn't have a NetworkManager frontend or any other tool for any >> kind of network management.I include NetworkManager-gnome by default in >> the Xfce spin I am working on however. >> >> Rahul >> >> > > Ok thanks for that, I wanted to make sure that the direction of the docs > was correct. > > Cheers, > > Marc > > I've touched up the 'Connecting to the internet' page to show the menu location of network manager in KDE and added the menu location and icon for 'Desktop Sharing' in KDE The only thing now missing from this page is the XFCE menu location of network manager. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringInternet Regards, Dan O'Brien From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Jan 8 10:36:41 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:36:41 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1199788601.20753.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> I just added some love to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringInternet I added a section for KDE Network Manager since the section above relates to Gnome. Can you fill this out Dan? Also Rahul can you have a look at the page for XFCE to see if altertions need to be made? If not we might be able to set it to edit ready? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Jan 8 10:38:51 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:38:51 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1199788731.20753.115.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm thinking of setting some pages as edit ready. Can someone start looking at them for the 'final' edit status? Once the DUG has been edited can we do a cross post to other lists to get feedback and input about potential additions and or suggestions? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Jan 8 10:42:10 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:42:10 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1199788930.20753.117.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey Dan, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Web Is the menu location correct for KDE if so do you want to place it on edit status? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Jan 8 10:51:22 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 19:51:22 +0900 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199789482.20753.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > make html-en_US in the correct folder > > scp -r selinux-faq-en_US @fedorapeople.org:~/public_html/ > > > > This would make it available on > > .fedorapeople.org/selinux-faq-en_US > > > > BTW you might want to copy your work into a devel branch, so we keep an > > analogous directory layout in CVS. http://mwiriadi.fedorapeople.org/selinux-faq-en_US/ I've put it up there and I'll start transferring information across in a use case situation. I'm going to try and use Gui and console at the same time but we shall see. I'm thinking that there should be a minimum requirement for software installed. It would be easier for a use to be on the same base as me when they are using SELinux? Cheers, Marc From dan at new2linux.com Tue Jan 8 14:28:04 2008 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 09:28:04 -0500 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199788930.20753.117.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> <1199788930.20753.117.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <47838874.2050704@new2linux.com> Marc, I've updated the page with the location of firefox, and I started to work on the 'Network Manager' section of the 'Connecting to the Internet' page as you asked, but apparently starting Network Manager while using VNC wasn't the best idea I've had this morning. I'll finish that page tonight when I get home and can get my machine online again. Regards, Dan O'Brien Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey Dan, > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Web > > Is the menu location correct for KDE if so do you want to place it on > edit status? > > Cheers, > > Marc > > From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 15:15:08 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:15:08 +0000 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199789482.20753.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199789482.20753.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199805308.3340.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 19:51 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > make html-en_US in the correct folder > > > scp -r selinux-faq-en_US @fedorapeople.org:~/public_html/ > > > > > > This would make it available on > > > .fedorapeople.org/selinux-faq-en_US > > > > > > BTW you might want to copy your work into a devel branch, so we keep an > > > analogous directory layout in CVS. > > http://mwiriadi.fedorapeople.org/selinux-faq-en_US/ > > I've put it up there and I'll start transferring information across in a > use case situation. I'm going to try and use Gui and console at the > same time but we shall see. > > I'm thinking that there should be a minimum requirement for software > installed. It would be easier for a use to be on the same base as me > when they are using SELinux? The best standard for this, which we declare for other guides, is to do a completely default installation of Fedora and work from that. The default SELinux mode is Enforcing the targeted policy. I find it useful to do testing in a VM since it means I don't have to monkey with my actual system configuration -- and in any case that would be a bad idea since it's sometimes difficult to predict how the changes one has already made would affect testing results. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Jan 8 21:46:29 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2008 06:46:29 +0900 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199805308.3340.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199789482.20753.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199805308.3340.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199828789.8136.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> > > The best standard for this, which we declare for other guides, is to do > a completely default installation of Fedora and work from that. The > default SELinux mode is Enforcing the targeted policy. I find it useful > to do testing in a VM since it means I don't have to monkey with my > actual system configuration -- and in any case that would be a bad idea > since it's sometimes difficult to predict how the changes one has > already made would affect testing results. What do you use as a VM. I tried VMWare and I don't really like it I'm not to sure what else is out there. Also are there any docs to install the VM if you use a different kind? Cheers, Marc From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 21:53:58 2008 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 16:53:58 -0500 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199828789.8136.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199789482.20753.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199805308.3340.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199828789.8136.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199829238.3462.9.camel@bruiser.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 06:46 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > > The best standard for this, which we declare for other guides, is to do > > a completely default installation of Fedora and work from that. The > > default SELinux mode is Enforcing the targeted policy. I find it useful > > to do testing in a VM since it means I don't have to monkey with my > > actual system configuration -- and in any case that would be a bad idea > > since it's sometimes difficult to predict how the changes one has > > already made would affect testing results. > > What do you use as a VM. I tried VMWare and I don't really like it I'm > not to sure what else is out there. Also are there any docs to install > the VM if you use a different kind? > > Cheers, > > Marc > I use qemu/kvm works quite well (XP is a little flaky but that's not terribly suprising). Check http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Fedora8VirtQuickStart?highlight=% 28QuickStart%29 for help, that's all I followed to get stuff up and running. If you hit a bump give a holler.. :D -Jason -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Tue Jan 8 22:35:06 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 15:35:06 -0700 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199828789.8136.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199789482.20753.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199805308.3340.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199828789.8136.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4783FA9A.1030307@zianet.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >> The best standard for this, which we declare for other guides, is to do >> a completely default installation of Fedora and work from that. The >> default SELinux mode is Enforcing the targeted policy. I find it useful >> to do testing in a VM since it means I don't have to monkey with my >> actual system configuration -- and in any case that would be a bad idea >> since it's sometimes difficult to predict how the changes one has >> already made would affect testing results. >> > > What do you use as a VM. I tried VMWare and I don't really like it I'm > not to sure what else is out there. Also are there any docs to install > the VM if you use a different kind? > > Cheers, > > Marc > > As just a user when I got to F7 I was Attacked by SElinux :-) I wrote to the Fedora list my problems and found I was not alone. A whole lot of F7 users deleted SElinux. Then on to F8 and I decided to try it again and set it up full power and have had zero problems :-P It is there to protect from bad things but never do I see or hear from it. I think the developers got it right. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From jmbabich at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 23:17:08 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2008 18:17:08 -0500 Subject: KDE critique (DUG) In-Reply-To: <1199741320.20753.104.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1199714680.20753.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> <9d2c731f0801070623m627f570fmdeb9c1e2ee012658@mail.gmail.com> <1199741320.20753.104.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0801081517i760e1a23mf04172d96c3cb8d2@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 7, 2008 4:28 PM, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > Stop checking your emails John :) I wouldn't worry to much about doing > anything on the DUG until you get back since there is no real rush I > don't think. > Old habits are hard to break :-) BR, John Babich From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Tue Jan 8 23:33:04 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 08:33:04 +0900 (WST) Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <4783FA9A.1030307@zianet.com> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199789482.20753.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199805308.3340.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199828789.8136.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4783FA9A.1030307@zianet.com> Message-ID: <26174.203.63.126.189.1199835185.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> >> >>> The best standard for this, which we declare for other guides, is to do >>> a completely default installation of Fedora and work from that. The >>> default SELinux mode is Enforcing the targeted policy. I find it >>> useful >>> to do testing in a VM since it means I don't have to monkey with my >>> actual system configuration -- and in any case that would be a bad idea >>> since it's sometimes difficult to predict how the changes one has >>> already made would affect testing results. >>> >> >> What do you use as a VM. I tried VMWare and I don't really like it I'm >> not to sure what else is out there. Also are there any docs to install >> the VM if you use a different kind? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Marc >> >> > As just a user when I got to F7 I was Attacked by SElinux :-) > I wrote to the Fedora list my problems and found I was not alone. A > whole lot of F7 users deleted SElinux. Then on to F8 and I decided to > try it again and set it up full power and have had zero problems :-P > > It is there to protect from bad things but never do I see or hear > from it. I think the developers got it right. > > Karl > > I definitely agree with you there. The challenges show up when you try to create a samba share in your home directory, try to create a home public_html directory and a few other bits and pieces. The main gripe's can be fixed with the programs built into Fedora. I still get SELinux popping up for Java and a few other programs but thats because of text/fonts and also with flash (online games for my son) I do think however that it is a brilliant set up and a lot of the times a touch /.autorelabel or whatever it is fixes it. Other options are restorecon -r -v /directory fixes it. Cheers, Marc From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 23:51:30 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:51:30 +0000 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <1199829238.3462.9.camel@bruiser.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199789482.20753.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199805308.3340.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199828789.8136.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199829238.3462.9.camel@bruiser.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199836291.3340.67.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 16:53 -0500, Jason wrote: > On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 06:46 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > > > > > The best standard for this, which we declare for other guides, is to do > > > a completely default installation of Fedora and work from that. The > > > default SELinux mode is Enforcing the targeted policy. I find it useful > > > to do testing in a VM since it means I don't have to monkey with my > > > actual system configuration -- and in any case that would be a bad idea > > > since it's sometimes difficult to predict how the changes one has > > > already made would affect testing results. > > > > What do you use as a VM. I tried VMWare and I don't really like it I'm > > not to sure what else is out there. Also are there any docs to install > > the VM if you use a different kind? > > I use qemu/kvm works quite well (XP is a little flaky but that's not > terribly suprising). Check > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Fedora8VirtQuickStart?highlight=% > 28QuickStart%29 > > for help, that's all I followed to get stuff up and running. If you hit > a bump give a holler.. :D As did I. It works great for Fedora, RHEL, and CentOS guests, even if you only have a 32-bit CPU and no hardware virtualization. You'll want to be able to cut off some RAM for the virtual guest machines, so having at least 1 GB in your machine may make things much easier. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 8 23:55:34 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 23:55:34 +0000 Subject: SELinux in guides [was: Self-Introduction: Eric Christensen] In-Reply-To: <26174.203.63.126.189.1199835185.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <95f1114b0801041722n10bb5bddgf89ef988eabe42b1@mail.gmail.com> <1199497148.25152.12.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199513568.10503.69.camel@erato.phig.org> <1199514053.10503.73.camel@erato.phig.org> <477F2B51.2040604@mwiriadi.id.au> <1199522541.5869.8.camel@lapcouf.bercie23.homelinux.net> <1199544985.3652.59.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199789482.20753.121.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199805308.3340.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1199828789.8136.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4783FA9A.1030307@zianet.com> <26174.203.63.126.189.1199835185.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <1199836534.3340.72.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-01-09 at 08:33 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> > >> > >>> The best standard for this, which we declare for other guides, is to do > >>> a completely default installation of Fedora and work from that. The > >>> default SELinux mode is Enforcing the targeted policy. I find it > >>> useful > >>> to do testing in a VM since it means I don't have to monkey with my > >>> actual system configuration -- and in any case that would be a bad idea > >>> since it's sometimes difficult to predict how the changes one has > >>> already made would affect testing results. > >>> > >> > >> What do you use as a VM. I tried VMWare and I don't really like it I'm > >> not to sure what else is out there. Also are there any docs to install > >> the VM if you use a different kind? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Marc > >> > >> > > As just a user when I got to F7 I was Attacked by SElinux :-) > > I wrote to the Fedora list my problems and found I was not alone. A > > whole lot of F7 users deleted SElinux. Then on to F8 and I decided to > > try it again and set it up full power and have had zero problems :-P > > > > It is there to protect from bad things but never do I see or hear > > from it. I think the developers got it right. > > > > Karl > > > > > I definitely agree with you there. The challenges show up when you try to > create a samba share in your home directory, try to create a home > public_html directory and a few other bits and pieces. > > The main gripe's can be fixed with the programs built into Fedora. I > still get SELinux popping up for Java and a few other programs but thats > because of text/fonts and also with flash (online games for my son) > > I do think however that it is a brilliant set up and a lot of the times a > touch /.autorelabel or whatever it is fixes it. Other options are > restorecon -r -v /directory fixes it. I started using SELinux in FC3 (FC2?), retreated to "disabled" for the rest of that release, and then for FC4 (FC3?) I just decided to man up and face it, since all the reading I did made it seem completely amazing and far superior deseign to AppArmor. (Not to mention which there was a good chance I'd run into it again in the public sector.) In F7 and F8 it has been remarkably good, and the setroubleshoot/sealert tools have helped me better understand how it works. (Plus Karsten's FAQ, thanks man.) :-) The booleans make it very tunable and there's almost no problem I haven't been able to lick using some diagnostic skills, common sense, and a turn or two around Google. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dan at new2linux.com Wed Jan 9 03:23:37 2008 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2008 22:23:37 -0500 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <47838874.2050704@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> <1199788930.20753.117.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47838874.2050704@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <47843E39.1010109@new2linux.com> Dan O'Brien wrote: > Marc, > > I've updated the page with the location of firefox, and I started to > work on the 'Network Manager' section of the 'Connecting to the > Internet' page as you asked, but apparently starting Network Manager > while using VNC wasn't the best idea I've had this morning. I'll > finish that page tonight when I get home and can get my machine online > again. > > Regards, > Dan O'Brien > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> Hey Dan, >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Web >> >> Is the menu location correct for KDE if so do you want to place it on >> edit status? >> >> Cheers, >> >> Marc >> >> > Marc, I've finished the Network Manager section for KDE, and Desktop Sharing in KDE. Comments? If all is ok, can you put them in edit status? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringInternet http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/SharingDesktop Regards, Dan O'Brien From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Jan 9 12:00:52 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2008 23:00:52 +1100 Subject: nfs section /etc/sysconfig/nfs Message-ID: <95f1114b0801090400m6d3f5f32y17c037945658e7b2@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I was taking a look at the NFS section, and found at the start "Firewall rules are configured to allow for the proper port access". The section is marked edit ready, which is why I'm asking before doing, but would it be worthwhile documenting /etc/sysconfig/nfs? Otherwise it is hard to configure firewall rules since portmap assigns ports dynamically. I have recently done the content for work, so it wouldn't be hard to add some of the details into the wiki... Thanks, Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Jan 9 21:27:54 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 06:27:54 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <47843E39.1010109@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> <1199788930.20753.117.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47838874.2050704@new2linux.com> <47843E39.1010109@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1199914074.8136.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-01-08 at 22:23 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > Dan O'Brien wrote: > > Marc, > > > > I've updated the page with the location of firefox, and I started to > > work on the 'Network Manager' section of the 'Connecting to the > > Internet' page as you asked, but apparently starting Network Manager > > while using VNC wasn't the best idea I've had this morning. I'll > > finish that page tonight when I get home and can get my machine online > > again. > > > > Regards, > > Dan O'Brien > > > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> Hey Dan, > >> > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Web > >> > >> Is the menu location correct for KDE if so do you want to place it on > >> edit status? > >> > >> Cheers, > >> > >> Marc > >> > >> > > > Marc, > I've finished the Network Manager section for KDE, and Desktop Sharing > in KDE. Comments? If all is ok, can you put them in edit status? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringInternet > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/SharingDesktop > > Regards, > Dan O'Brien > I've added them to edit status. Nice work with the Sharing Desktop page it looks nice. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Jan 10 12:52:52 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 21:52:52 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199914074.8136.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> <1199788930.20753.117.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47838874.2050704@new2linux.com> <47843E39.1010109@new2linux.com> <1199914074.8136.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199969572.8136.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> I shifted some stuff around in the following part and I've put it to edit status. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Web I'm going to work on the following over the weekend. I'm not to sure what else needs to be added since if you haven't set up an account it offers to help set it up automatically. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Communications Also what it is the default mail client in KDE is it the same as Gnome being evolution? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Jan 10 13:03:54 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:03:54 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <1199914074.8136.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> <1199788930.20753.117.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47838874.2050704@new2linux.com> <47843E39.1010109@new2linux.com> <1199914074.8136.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1199970234.8136.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> I have modified the Office[1] page slightly. It needs menu locations for KDE where "blah" is located. Cheers, Marc http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Office From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Jan 10 13:07:06 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 22:07:06 +0900 Subject: DUG Updates In-Reply-To: <47843E39.1010109@new2linux.com> References: <476924A9.3090601@new2linux.com> <1198353108.5339.38.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1198363014.2672.0.camel@study.mwiriadi.id.au> <477EEBC5.9090401@new2linux.com> <477F01AA.4080807@mwiriadi.id.au> <47801FB1.3090106@new2linux.com> <1199580285.20753.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47802449.6090200@new2linux.com> <1199623257.20753.48.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478125A0.6010901@new2linux.com> <9d2c731f0801061352m4faaf11akcab4da8cfc91499f@mail.gmail.com> <478237F7.8010707@fedoraproject.org> <1199741209.20753.101.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782984F.9070308@fedoraproject.org> <1199741923.20753.106.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4782CDDF.4040507@new2linux.com> <1199788930.20753.117.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47838874.2050704@new2linux.com> <47843E39.1010109@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1199970426.8136.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Can someone double check that I have the whole list for the KDE Games [1]. If so can we put it on edit status. If there is some additional information on games that people want to be included just post here. Cheers, Marc [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Games From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jan 10 15:28:40 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:28:40 -0500 Subject: Request for Review: Using FireGPG Message-ID: <31420842.2282071199978920057.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I submitted this document for review on 03 Jan 2008. Thanks to the help of couf and mwiriadi on IRC this morning I was able to structure the document a bit better and feel it is ready for the main stream. Please look over the document and see if everything flows. I'd also like for someone to try the steps and validate the procedure. This page should be linked from http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/UsingGpg which hopefully will put my document into better context. Thanks, Eric >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/WithFireGPG > >I started this page yesterday before finding all the information on joining >the documentation team and how to PROPERLY submit a work. Sorry... > >I have started a page with instructions on installing and setting up FireGPG >which is a Firefox extension that allows users to sign and encrypt e-mail >messages when using a webmail client. It was actually specifically designed >to integrate with Gmail but also works with other webmail products (really any >time you need to sign and/or encrypt text you can use the extension). > >I haven't added the information for using it with webmail clients other than >Gmail but what is there should be correct. I'd appreciate someone verifying >the information. > >Thanks, >Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (MingW32) Comment: http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org iD8DBQFHhjl0L5V8yddJCO0RAt5ZAJ0WmRGpNtk+DHvHZB5KgYmMMWnvzQCeNPlr tuANIgm8qOO/biF7kvnNTbA= =0NWu -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From verduin at ameritech.net Sun Jan 13 21:17:33 2008 From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:17:33 +0000 Subject: Delineation: document vs application Message-ID: <1200259053.23434.47.camel@tango.gfvhome.org> I have run into an issue needing an assignment to the most appropriate group for resolution -- it may be an application or documentation issue. As a matter of background, I've been following this reflector for many months but have not submitted a formal self intro... I'm sorry that I don't already know the answer to my question. Specific to the task of hooking up klamav to evolution while in the KDE desktop environment [to filter out virus laden incoming mail] I ran into an ambiguity that hinders my administrative work. The reference document I used is provided as a text window by klamav that is specific to this task. My resultant setup in evolution leaves me wondering if I have correctly set up the interface and quite frankly I suspect I have done it wrong... I am reserving the detail of the issue, it is in the form of two screen shots plus my narrative. Rather than resolving the problem here on the reflector, I am asking whether this qualifies as a bug for the application or if this fits within the documentation domain. After watching this reflector, I am not clear which team on-line pop-up window material falls into. I would be pleased to collaborate with the author of the window text to remove the ambiguity no matter which group takes the lead. Warmest regards from here, thanks up front for your consideration. George From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 13 21:27:00 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 06:27:00 +0900 Subject: Delineation: document vs application In-Reply-To: <1200259053.23434.47.camel@tango.gfvhome.org> References: <1200259053.23434.47.camel@tango.gfvhome.org> Message-ID: <1200259620.5206.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-13 at 21:17 +0000, George (Skip) VerDuin wrote: > I have run into an issue needing an assignment to the most appropriate > group for resolution -- it may be an application or documentation issue. > As a matter of background, I've been following this reflector for many > months but have not submitted a formal self intro... I'm sorry that I > don't already know the answer to my question. > > Specific to the task of hooking up klamav to evolution while in the KDE > desktop environment [to filter out virus laden incoming mail] I ran into > an ambiguity that hinders my administrative work. The reference > document I used is provided as a text window by klamav that is specific > to this task. My resultant setup in evolution leaves me wondering if I > have correctly set up the interface and quite frankly I suspect I have > done it wrong... I am reserving the detail of the issue, it is in the > form of two screen shots plus my narrative. > > Rather than resolving the problem here on the reflector, I am asking > whether this qualifies as a bug for the application or if this fits > within the documentation domain. After watching this reflector, I am > not clear which team on-line pop-up window material falls into. > > I would be pleased to collaborate with the author of the window text to > remove the ambiguity no matter which group takes the lead. > > Warmest regards from here, thanks up front for your consideration. > George > I would think that would be a package issue. If the bug is located with the documentation provided by the package then surely it would be a package issue. My $0.02 Marc From verduin at ameritech.net Sun Jan 13 22:52:29 2008 From: verduin at ameritech.net (George (Skip) VerDuin) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 22:52:29 +0000 Subject: Delineation: document vs application In-Reply-To: <1200259620.5206.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200259053.23434.47.camel@tango.gfvhome.org> <1200259620.5206.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1200264749.23434.84.camel@tango.gfvhome.org> I think your $.02 is worth a buck Mark. On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 06:27 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>SNIP<< > > I would think that would be a package issue. If the bug is located with > the documentation provided by the package then surely it would be a > package issue. > > My $0.02 As a programmer I have been known to: A) write my own doc (your $.02 applies) B) Cut-n-paste from doc material of others (your $.02 raised .02) C) Link to a ref or help doc (not done as part of my issue) And there may be other options at play on the fedora teams. Like maybe this belongs to the klam (clam) team and not to fedora at all? As an observer to the Fedora Doc project, my vision is not good enough to see how these issues get pushed around from team-to-team for resolution. Perhaps that is my greatest shortcoming? I very much like the way Fedora has brought applications together into a cohesive package. As part of acting responsibly I have a need to submit to the most appropriate group to save shuffling it around before the root source is identified. Unless of course it doesn't make any difference where I submit -- the shuffle process is so effective it gets to the root with minimal effort and in quick time? I'm going to use your two cents and take this issue to the most direct point of observation -- the kde desktop klamav application. If Fedora project engineered the klamav-to-evolution interface, then maybe Fedora will get it back again from the KDE/klamav folks? In any case - thanks for your $.02. Let's see what happens... And also let's let this play out before we build more mountain over the top of the mole hill? > > Marc > Warmest regards from here, George From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sun Jan 13 23:27:07 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:27:07 +1300 Subject: FDSCo results In-Reply-To: <1198943421.5788.17.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1198943421.5788.17.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <478A9E4B.2070008@mkc.co.nz> Hi all. Congrats to Bart, John and Jared on (re)election, I'm looking forward to Docs Project progress. I'd also like to extend the congratulations to Paul on his appointment as a Fedora Project leader. It is well deserved. Paul's appointment also warrants the acknowledgment of one more in the series of positive moves by Red Hat in their continuing support for Fedora community. Those guys don't do many wrong things, don't they? As I'm back from break, I'll mostly continue with Admin Guide work but am happy to land a hand if anything needs urgent nursing as well. Cheers, Vladimir Karsten Wade wrote: > With a slight delay for the holidays to get the results :), the > following persons will be staying or joining the Fedora Documentation > Steering Committee (FDSCo): > > Bart Couvreur > John Babich > Jared Smith > > Congratulations to those chosen. All candidates are doing great work in > Fedora Docs, and by virtue of that are already leaders within the > project. When we next have a round of formal elections, I hope you all > consider running again. > > We'll have our first FDSCo meeting after the new year. > > Members - let's work out a meeting time. To start, we need to refresh > our matrix: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingTimeMatrix > > You can refer to the old one[1] for what you put in last time. Our goal > is to pick a meeting time or two; we can alternate between then, if that > works. Another option is to have two meetings a month and do more > preparation and work in them. Open for discussion! > > Thanks - Karsten > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen/MeetingTimes > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jan 14 02:14:49 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2008 21:14:49 -0500 Subject: FDSCo results In-Reply-To: <478A9E4B.2070008@mkc.co.nz> References: <1198943421.5788.17.camel@erato.phig.org> <478A9E4B.2070008@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1200276889.18971.76.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 12:27 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > Hi all. > > Congrats to Bart, John and Jared on (re)election, I'm looking forward to > Docs Project progress. It is going to be an exciting year for Docs! > I'd also like to extend the congratulations to Paul on his appointment > as a Fedora Project leader. It is well deserved. Thank you Vladimir, you're very kind. > Paul's appointment also warrants the acknowledgment of one more in the > series of positive moves by Red Hat in their continuing support for > Fedora community. Those guys don't do many wrong things, don't they? Hopefully I can comment on this without being too much of a toady, since they don't write my paychecks yet. :-) Red Hat is fully invested in Fedora's success, and I don't think my move there is in any way the culmination of that work, but just another step in an evolutionary process. There is much yet to do on all our parts, but the future for Fedora is amazingly bright -- the best it's ever been, according to community members both inside and outside Red Hat to whom I spoke this weekend at FUDCon. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 14 10:51:21 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 19:51:21 +0900 Subject: Fedora 9 Message-ID: <1200307881.5206.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Are we going to release information as to what our targets are for a feature of admin guide and desktop guide? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule I'm personally hopeful at us having the DuG ready for F9 should we start pushing it or should we wait? Cheers, Marc From couf at skynet.be Mon Jan 14 11:57:46 2008 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:57:46 +0100 Subject: Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <1200307881.5206.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200307881.5206.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1200311866.8653.6.camel@versuz> Op maandag 14-01-2008 om 19:51 uur [tijdzone +0900], schreef Marc Wiriadisastra: > Are we going to release information as to what our targets are for a > feature of admin guide and desktop guide? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule > > I'm personally hopeful at us having the DuG ready for F9 should we start > pushing it or should we wait? Good point. We should indeed add AG and DUG info to [1] It seems doable to get them both ready for F9. I would suggest getting them ready for the F9 Beta release (1st week of March), so we can concentrate on the IG and Relnotes after. Comments, suggestions? Bart [1] http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-docs-details.html -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Mon Jan 14 21:44:14 2008 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 16:44:14 -0500 (EST) Subject: erroneous reference to fedora "extras"?? Message-ID: on: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/yum/en/sn-software-management-concepts.html IIRC, that repo disappeared as of F7, no? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Mon Jan 14 22:31:20 2008 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:31:20 -0500 (EST) Subject: observations on "Managing Software with yum" Message-ID: might as well collect my observations on http://docs.fedoraproject.org/yum/en/index.html section 1.3: might mention that "tsclient" can also be invoked just from the command line, not only from the menus section 2.2: "To view a list of all of the available package groups for your Fedora system, run the command su -c 'yum grouplist'. " - i don't believe just getting a yum grouplist requires root access, and i'd avoid typing "su -c" where it's technically not required. section 4.1: if you're going to mention "yum groupinstall", it might be useful to also mention "yum groupinfo", unless you cover that later. (i notice you do cover "yum groupupdate" and "yum groupremove" just a bit farther down the page.) section 5.1: again, i would avoid prefixing commands with "su -c" that don't require it. i also don't see any mention of "yum info" on that page, which i find handy, particularly with wildcard patterns. section 5.2: the example of "yum provides libneon" might emphasize that that search covers only installed packages, no? more later, possibly. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Mon Jan 14 22:34:27 2008 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 17:34:27 -0500 (EST) Subject: whoops, forgot this one Message-ID: sorry, this should have been at the end of that previous list: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/yum/en/sn-updating-your-system.html su -c '/sbin/chkconfig --level 345 yum on; /sbin/service yum start' i'm pretty sure the service name should be "yum-updatesd" these days, no? rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Mon Jan 14 23:19:18 2008 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:19:18 -0500 (EST) Subject: remaining observations on "Managing Software with yum" Message-ID: section 7: once again, there is no "Extras" repo since F7, right? section 7.1: i think it would be worth mentioning how you can just "yum install" 3rd-party repo files as well, rather than manual copying then. (and wouldn't that also automatically add the public key to your key ring as well?) section 7.3: another reference to "Extras", but it might be useful to have a real-life example of repo compatibility issues -- for instance, livna versus freshrpms or something like that. and it would be *really* useful to explain the "--enablerepo" option, i would think. perhaps in section 7.4. section 9.2: "Fedora Core includes the installonlyn plugin. This plugin modifies yum to remove excess kernel packages, so that no more than a set number of kernels exist on the system. By default, installonlyn retains the two most current kernels, and automatically removes older kernel packages." - but that's not a plugin anymore, is it? there's certainly nothing by that name in /usr/lib/yum-plugins. isn't that feature now handled by "installonly_limit" in /etc/yum.conf, or something like that? section 9 or 10: i think it would be useful to introduce the yum-downloadonly plugin. i think that would fit nicely right around here. and i think i'm done here. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 00:28:09 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 00:28:09 +0000 Subject: remaining observations on "Managing Software with yum" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1200356889.27222.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 18:19 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: [...snip lots of bug info...] > and i think i'm done here. It would be really cool if you could file these things as bugs. Unfortunately, mailing lists make very bad TODO lists, not just because they limit the audience to the list subscribers. And yes, we use Bugzilla in Docs too! :-) You can choose the product "Fedora Documentation," and the component for the particular publication in question. However, I can tell you that the Yum Software Management guide is *way* out of date. I thought we had someone who committed to maintain it some time ago, but that hasn't happened AFAICT. :-( So, this would be an opportune time for anyone reading who attended the DocBook XML talk at FUDCon (or who didn't) to step up to the plate and try maintaining a formal guide! This one is pretty short, comparatively speaking, and one person could do it with ease. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From herlo1 at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 01:47:08 2008 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 18:47:08 -0700 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: As is customary, I'm introducing myself to the fedora documentation project. I've been a member of the Fedora Project for about 6-8 months IIRC and have been participating mostly in an Ambassadors role. However, as I get a little more involved, I'd like to participate in further projects and the docs is one where I feel I could help immensely. This weekend, I attended my first FUDCon and met several people, of which a few (Paul Frields, Jared Smith) are on the docs project as well. I find that I could probably help here as I'm regularly asked to document things for my work regarding Fedora specific features and thus could help the Fedora project to improve its documentation as well in these areas (and others as I can). I am a linux instructor (Guru is the title we get when we're hired) at a small company in Utah called Guru Labs. We provide training for Red Hat and other companies throughout the world. Its quite a fun job, and I get to see much of the country (and sometimes world). I am a resident of Utah, which is Mountain Time, though I travel quite a bit to the East Coast of the US. I usually try to stay on mountain time, however so I can do that translation in my head (or because my computer is always on that time). Here's my gpg info: gpg --fingerprint 62A2258E pub 1024D/62A2258E 2006-07-09 Key fingerprint = 8C10 443D 7F49 A694 018C A2DD 7D27 D8A2 62A2 258E uid Clint Savage (It's Guru Time) uid Clint Savage uid Clint Savage uid Clint Savage (Utah Open Source) sub 2048g/5F818B03 2006-07-09 Hopefully, I can contribute where needed and look forward to working with you all. I'm currently working on learning docbook and should be more comfortable in the near future. Cheers, Clint From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 01:53:09 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 20:53:09 -0500 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1200361989.27222.69.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 18:47 -0700, Clint Savage wrote: > As is customary, I'm introducing myself to the fedora documentation project. [...snip...] > Hopefully, I can contribute where needed and look forward to working > with you all. I'm currently working on learning docbook and should be > more comfortable in the near future. Clint, it was great meeting you this past weekend at FUDCon, and we look forward to working with you! You can always find some of us on IRC Freenode at #fedora-docs, to answer questions and help out as needed. Once you feel you're ready, there are probably plenty of ways you could help out on the DocBook side with some of the existing work in CVS. Also, if you find things that are amiss in our current process documentation on the wiki, or that could be simplified, please feel free to edit away. Great to have you here. :-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 04:33:47 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 04:33:47 +0000 Subject: Bug #306221 Message-ID: <1200371627.27222.83.camel@localhost.localdomain> OK, this bug has been dormant too long. Does someone have a good solution for this that isn't hacky and ugly? I guess in retrospect it would have been nice to have our rpm-info DTD include a "locale" attribute for "translator" elements, so we could extract the desired credit using the existing packaging/bookinfo.xsl in the docs-common/ module. Any suggestions appreciated -- please put them in the bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/306221 -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Tue Jan 15 13:55:58 2008 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:55:58 -0500 (EST) Subject: remaining observations on "Managing Software with yum" In-Reply-To: <1200356889.27222.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200356889.27222.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 18:19 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: > [...snip lots of bug info...] > > and i think i'm done here. > > It would be really cool if you could file these things as bugs. > Unfortunately, mailing lists make very bad TODO lists, not just > because they limit the audience to the list subscribers. And yes, > we use Bugzilla in Docs too! :-) You can choose the product "Fedora > Documentation," and the component for the particular publication in > question. ah, yes, i was unaware of that. my bad. i'll do that for my future whining and moaning. :-) rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Home page: http://crashcourse.ca Fedora Cookbook: http://crashcourse.ca/wiki/index.php/Fedora_Cookbook ======================================================================== From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 15 14:07:59 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:37:59 +0530 Subject: remaining observations on "Managing Software with yum" In-Reply-To: References: <1200356889.27222.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <478CBE3F.1080204@fedoraproject.org> Robert P. J. Day wrote: > On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 18:19 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: >> [...snip lots of bug info...] >>> and i think i'm done here. >> It would be really cool if you could file these things as bugs. >> Unfortunately, mailing lists make very bad TODO lists, not just >> because they limit the audience to the list subscribers. And yes, >> we use Bugzilla in Docs too! :-) You can choose the product "Fedora >> Documentation," and the component for the particular publication in >> question. > > ah, yes, i was unaware of that. my bad. i'll do that for my future > whining and moaning. :-) Atleast for this guide, it needs authors to maintain it. Filing bug reports probably won't help with orphaned documentation atleast in the immediate term. If you are interested, this is one documentation that you could maintain. Rahul From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jan 15 14:09:56 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:09:56 -0500 Subject: remaining observations on "Managing Software with yum" In-Reply-To: <478CBE3F.1080204@fedoraproject.org> References: <1200356889.27222.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478CBE3F.1080204@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <478CBEB4.5090106@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'll go ahead and stick my hand up as a volunteer. I'll need some help but I don't have a problem doing what I can. Looking over the document it looks like it is pretty old but that some (most?) of the data is correct. Looked in bugzilla and noted six bugs. ~ I guess I'll start there along with doing a sweep of the document. Thanks, Eric Christensen E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org GPG Key: D74908ED Rahul Sundaram wrote: | Robert P. J. Day wrote: |> On Tue, 15 Jan 2008, Paul W. Frields wrote: |> |>> On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 18:19 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote: |>> [...snip lots of bug info...] |>>> and i think i'm done here. |>> It would be really cool if you could file these things as bugs. |>> Unfortunately, mailing lists make very bad TODO lists, not just |>> because they limit the audience to the list subscribers. And yes, |>> we use Bugzilla in Docs too! :-) You can choose the product "Fedora |>> Documentation," and the component for the particular publication in |>> question. |> |> ah, yes, i was unaware of that. my bad. i'll do that for my future |> whining and moaning. :-) | | Atleast for this guide, it needs authors to maintain it. Filing bug | reports probably won't help with orphaned documentation atleast in the | immediate term. If you are interested, this is one documentation that | you could maintain. | | Rahul | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHjL6yL5V8yddJCO0RAl67AJ9I9uYkYDIpXRNU2J5z7XYB38kUEgCfXzUF GRNUIZjQpnnkZvoSTqMWva0= =QEVM -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jan 15 14:23:05 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 19:53:05 +0530 Subject: remaining observations on "Managing Software with yum" In-Reply-To: <478CBEB4.5090106@christensenplace.us> References: <1200356889.27222.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478CBE3F.1080204@fedoraproject.org> <478CBEB4.5090106@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <478CC1C9.3070709@fedoraproject.org> Eric Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I'll go ahead and stick my hand up as a volunteer. I'll need some help > but I don't have a problem doing what I can. Sure. There are some of us willing to contribute to including me but I don't have time to write the guide entirely myself. > Looking over the document it looks like it is pretty old but that some > (most?) of the data is correct. Looked in bugzilla and noted six bugs. > ~ I guess I'll start there along with doing a sweep of the document. Note that there is a new draft guide at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide This is probably what you should use as a starting point. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 15 15:34:56 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2008 15:34:56 +0000 Subject: remaining observations on "Managing Software with yum" In-Reply-To: <478CC1C9.3070709@fedoraproject.org> References: <1200356889.27222.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478CBE3F.1080204@fedoraproject.org> <478CBEB4.5090106@christensenplace.us> <478CC1C9.3070709@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1200411296.27222.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 19:53 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Eric Christensen wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > I'll go ahead and stick my hand up as a volunteer. I'll need some help > > but I don't have a problem doing what I can. > > Sure. There are some of us willing to contribute to including me but I > don't have time to write the guide entirely myself. > > > Looking over the document it looks like it is pretty old but that some > > (most?) of the data is correct. Looked in bugzilla and noted six bugs. > > ~ I guess I'll start there along with doing a sweep of the document. > > Note that there is a new draft guide at > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide > > This is probably what you should use as a starting point. Exactly, you can do anything from a data exchange to a full ground-up rewrite on the wiki. Then we can worry later about converting it to DocBook and replacing the obsolete guide. I'd like Karsten to pitch in his US$0.02, but it might make good sense to paste a header at the top of each draft page on the wiki with an invitation to help. Then we can change the docs.fp.o link to send people to the wiki draft so they see that work is going on and might be enticed to help. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Tue Jan 15 19:59:29 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 08:59:29 +1300 Subject: Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <1200311866.8653.6.camel@versuz> References: <1200307881.5206.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200311866.8653.6.camel@versuz> Message-ID: <478D10A1.8030900@mkc.co.nz> Bart Couvreur wrote: > Op maandag 14-01-2008 om 19:51 uur [tijdzone +0900], schreef Marc > Wiriadisastra: >> Are we going to release information as to what our targets are for a >> feature of admin guide and desktop guide? >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule >> >> I'm personally hopeful at us having the DuG ready for F9 should we start >> pushing it or should we wait? > > Good point. We should indeed add AG and DUG info to [1] > All, there will be IRC meeting (sort of) this Saturday at 6 PM / UTC on #fedora-docs. At the moment, confirmed attendees are: 1] Bart (couf) 2] Vladimir (vnk_fd) We want to try to put together a plan to achieve a big goal - publishing DUG and AG for release of Fedora 9. If you want to join, please add your nick to the list above. Vladimir > It seems doable to get them both ready for F9. I would suggest getting > them ready for the F9 Beta release (1st week of March), so we can > concentrate on the IG and Relnotes after. > > Comments, suggestions? > > Bart > > [1] http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-docs-details.html > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Jan 16 00:00:12 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 09:00:12 +0900 (WST) Subject: Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <478D10A1.8030900@mkc.co.nz> References: <1200307881.5206.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200311866.8653.6.camel@versuz> <478D10A1.8030900@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <7291.203.63.126.189.1200441612.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> > > > Bart Couvreur wrote: >> Op maandag 14-01-2008 om 19:51 uur [tijdzone +0900], schreef Marc >> Wiriadisastra: >>> Are we going to release information as to what our targets are for a >>> feature of admin guide and desktop guide? >>> >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule >>> >>> I'm personally hopeful at us having the DuG ready for F9 should we >>> start >>> pushing it or should we wait? >> >> Good point. We should indeed add AG and DUG info to [1] >> > All, > > there will be IRC meeting (sort of) this Saturday at 6 PM / UTC on > #fedora-docs. At the moment, confirmed attendees are: > > 1] Bart (couf) > 2] Vladimir (vnk_fd) > > We want to try to put together a plan to achieve a big goal - publishing > DUG and AG for release of Fedora 9. > > If you want to join, please add your nick to the list above. > > I am unable to attend due to the time of the meeting. It is 3AM my time since I'm in Perth. http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=19&month=1&year=2008&hour=18&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 Cheers, Marc From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Jan 16 00:19:01 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 13:19:01 +1300 Subject: Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <7291.203.63.126.189.1200441612.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> References: <1200307881.5206.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200311866.8653.6.camel@versuz> <478D10A1.8030900@mkc.co.nz> <7291.203.63.126.189.1200441612.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> Message-ID: <478D4D75.7080000@mkc.co.nz> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> >> Bart Couvreur wrote: >>> Op maandag 14-01-2008 om 19:51 uur [tijdzone +0900], schreef Marc >>> Wiriadisastra: >>>> Are we going to release information as to what our targets are for a >>>> feature of admin guide and desktop guide? >>>> >>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule >>>> >>>> I'm personally hopeful at us having the DuG ready for F9 should we >>>> start >>>> pushing it or should we wait? >>> Good point. We should indeed add AG and DUG info to [1] >>> >> All, >> >> there will be IRC meeting (sort of) this Saturday at 6 PM / UTC on >> #fedora-docs. At the moment, confirmed attendees are: >> >> 1] Bart (couf) >> 2] Vladimir (vnk_fd) >> >> We want to try to put together a plan to achieve a big goal - publishing >> DUG and AG for release of Fedora 9. >> >> If you want to join, please add your nick to the list above. >> >> > > I am unable to attend due to the time of the meeting. It is 3AM my time > since I'm in Perth. > I was trying to figure out at least mildly sensible time for most of us but for some reason I assumed (knowing that you will be interested) you are AEST. Can you suggest some other time that works for Europe, US and you and I'll adapt - since I got old, I have no trouble staying awake :-( Vladimir > http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=19&month=1&year=2008&hour=18&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 > > Cheers, > > Marc > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Jan 16 01:17:17 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 14:17:17 +1300 Subject: Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <478D4D75.7080000@mkc.co.nz> References: <1200307881.5206.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200311866.8653.6.camel@versuz> <478D10A1.8030900@mkc.co.nz> <7291.203.63.126.189.1200441612.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> <478D4D75.7080000@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <478D5B1D.3000705@mkc.co.nz> OK, Saturday, 19th Jan. 14:00 (2 PM) UTC seems good: http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=1&day=19&year=2008&hour=14&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 Any objections? Cheers, Vladimir Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>> >>> Bart Couvreur wrote: >>>> Op maandag 14-01-2008 om 19:51 uur [tijdzone +0900], schreef Marc >>>> Wiriadisastra: >>>>> Are we going to release information as to what our targets are for a >>>>> feature of admin guide and desktop guide? >>>>> >>>>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule >>>>> >>>>> I'm personally hopeful at us having the DuG ready for F9 should we >>>>> start >>>>> pushing it or should we wait? >>>> Good point. We should indeed add AG and DUG info to [1] >>>> >>> All, >>> >>> there will be IRC meeting (sort of) this Saturday at 6 PM / UTC on >>> #fedora-docs. At the moment, confirmed attendees are: >>> >>> 1] Bart (couf) >>> 2] Vladimir (vnk_fd) >>> >>> We want to try to put together a plan to achieve a big goal - publishing >>> DUG and AG for release of Fedora 9. >>> >>> If you want to join, please add your nick to the list above. >>> >>> >> >> I am unable to attend due to the time of the meeting. It is 3AM my time >> since I'm in Perth. >> > I was trying to figure out at least mildly sensible time for most of us > but for some reason I assumed (knowing that you will be interested) you > are AEST. > > Can you suggest some other time that works for Europe, US and you and > I'll adapt - since I got old, I have no trouble staying awake :-( > > Vladimir > >> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=19&month=1&year=2008&hour=18&min=0&sec=0&p1=0 >> >> >> Cheers, >> >> Marc >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Jan 16 01:17:49 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 04:17:49 +0300 Subject: Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <478D10A1.8030900@mkc.co.nz> References: <1200307881.5206.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200311866.8653.6.camel@versuz> <478D10A1.8030900@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0801151717j429423a1u88c6f89ce2a7644a@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 15, 2008 10:59 PM, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > Bart Couvreur wrote: > > Op maandag 14-01-2008 om 19:51 uur [tijdzone +0900], schreef Marc > > Wiriadisastra: > >> Are we going to release information as to what our targets are for a > >> feature of admin guide and desktop guide? > >> > >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule > >> > >> I'm personally hopeful at us having the DuG ready for F9 should we start > >> pushing it or should we wait? > > > > Good point. We should indeed add AG and DUG info to [1] > > > All, > > there will be IRC meeting (sort of) this Saturday at 6 PM / UTC on > #fedora-docs. At the moment, confirmed attendees are: > > 1] Bart (couf) > 2] Vladimir (vnk_fd) > 3] JohnBabich (jmbuser) > We want to try to put together a plan to achieve a big goal - publishing > DUG and AG for release of Fedora 9. > > If you want to join, please add your nick to the list above. > Best Regards, John Babich Lead Writer, DUG From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Jan 16 02:40:07 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:40:07 +0900 (WST) Subject: Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0801151717j429423a1u88c6f89ce2a7644a@mail.gmail.com> References: <1200307881.5206.27.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200311866.8653.6.camel@versuz> <478D10A1.8030900@mkc.co.nz> <9d2c731f0801151717j429423a1u88c6f89ce2a7644a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <3656.203.63.126.189.1200451207.squirrel@www.mwiriadi.id.au> > On Jan 15, 2008 10:59 PM, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> >> >> Bart Couvreur wrote: >> > Op maandag 14-01-2008 om 19:51 uur [tijdzone +0900], schreef Marc >> > Wiriadisastra: >> >> Are we going to release information as to what our targets are for a >> >> feature of admin guide and desktop guide? >> >> >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Schedule >> >> >> >> I'm personally hopeful at us having the DuG ready for F9 should we >> start >> >> pushing it or should we wait? >> > >> > Good point. We should indeed add AG and DUG info to [1] >> > >> All, >> >> there will be IRC meeting (sort of) this Saturday at 6 PM / UTC on >> #fedora-docs. At the moment, confirmed attendees are: >> >> 1] Bart (couf) >> 2] Vladimir (vnk_fd) >> > 3] JohnBabich (jmbuser) 4] MarcWiriadisastra (mwiriadi/strikeforce) >> We want to try to put together a plan to achieve a big goal - publishing >> DUG and AG for release of Fedora 9. >> >> If you want to join, please add your nick to the list above. >> > Best Regards, > > John Babich > Lead Writer, DUG > I can make it. Cheers, Marc From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Jan 16 07:01:33 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:01:33 +1300 Subject: DUG + AG release planning Message-ID: <478DABCD.5020804@mkc.co.nz> To better prepare for the irc meetup this weekend, I've put together a brief list of observations/food for thought[1] related to the current status of AG draft. So far, these people have confirmed participation: - Bart (couf) - Marc (mwiriadi/strikeforce) - John (jmbuser) - Vladimir (vnk_fd) $date: Saturday, 19th Jan. 14:00 (2 PM) UTC It'd be good to assess current state of DUG release readiness, too and try to assign some timed tasks to writers/editors/xml converters, etc. [1] == Sections == Introduction ------------ New, shinny intro required for release, existing intro is A draft doc related, no change required DirectoryStructure ------------------ Shoud this be part of the AG? UserAccounts ------------ Edit-ready Permissions ----------- Edit-ready AccessControlLists ------------------ XML conversion-ready ManagingStorage --------------- currently writing (vnk); may split into LVM only for F9 release and keep the whole ToC here Disks[RemovableStorage] ----------------------- This stuff is mostly automatic these days - remove from AG? ManagingSoftware ---------------- Edit-ready ManagingServices ---------------- Edit-ready ModifyingStartup ---------------- Not sure how beneficial would this be for the AG; (too many too specific kernel parameters don't seem to have a place in a general doc) MailServer ---------- Sendmail needs just a bit of nursing; as with LVM, we may split sendmail part into F9 release; add dovecot config so receiving is covered; WebServer --------- some content available; needs editing and probably not much more content, if any; FTPServer --------- anon ftp part is OK; will add few common options from vsftpd.conf to cover authenticated ftp; NetworkFileSystem ----------------- Edit-ready SambaServer ----------- Edit-ready DNSBIND ------- probably needs a bit of trimming; bind-chroot is default; should cover named.conf for various server roles and a few zone/rev file examples, not much more; Firewall -------- I don't want to handle this one! CupsPrinting ------------ existing page is inapropriate for AG; in need of complete overhaul; ModifyingXwindow ---------------- don't think this should be part of the AG; MonitoringSystem ---------------- requirements on the AG front page are over the top; should cover basic stuff (ps, top, df, du, logs/logrotate, free); SchedulingTasks --------------- Edit-ready ======================================================= Possibly include: Squid ----- NTP --- ======================================================= Anything else? Vladimir -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jan 17 17:23:05 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:23:05 -0800 Subject: [Fwd: [Bug 147472] Adding FOP support] Message-ID: <1200590585.920.113.camel@calliope.phig.org> xmlto in rawhide supports FOP. w00t! -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- An embedded message was scrubbed... From: bugzilla at redhat.com Subject: [Bug 147472] Adding FOP support Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 07:20:37 -0500 Size: 2871 URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 20:05:19 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 15:05:19 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Bug 147472] Adding FOP support] In-Reply-To: <1200590585.920.113.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1200590585.920.113.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1200600319.19225.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 09:23 -0800, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > xmlto in rawhide supports FOP. > > w00t! One more docs era draws to a close, as one more begins.... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Jan 17 22:35:07 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:35:07 -0500 Subject: [Fwd: [Bug 147472] Adding FOP support] In-Reply-To: <1200600319.19225.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200590585.920.113.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1200600319.19225.44.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0801171435k6649d693hc255a885ea9ed24b@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 17, 2008 3:05 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > One more docs era draws to a close, as one more begins.... > Yes, soon we can author a Live CD that provides a totally unencumbered tool chain for producing FOSS docs. Sweet. Best Regards, John "FOSS Docs the FOSS Way" Babich From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jan 18 01:47:36 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 17:47:36 -0800 Subject: meetin' times for FDSCo Message-ID: <1200620857.920.163.camel@calliope.phig.org> We almost seem to have a consensus on a good time for FDSCo to meet. Hoping John and Jared can make the time ... So, let's meet next: Tuesday 22 January 2100 UTC #fedora-meeting We shouldn't consider it permanent until: i. John and Jared get a chance to weigh in on the time matrix[1] ii. Paul starts his new job and gets a chance to re-think his "free time" concept http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingTimeMatrix -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 04:34:04 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2008 23:34:04 -0500 Subject: meetin' times for FDSCo In-Reply-To: <1200620857.920.163.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1200620857.920.163.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0801172034q3d66c6fj53d59785ab4a927b@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 17, 2008 8:47 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > We almost seem to have a consensus on a good time for FDSCo to meet. > Hoping John and Jared can make the time ... > > So, let's meet next: > > Tuesday 22 January > 2100 UTC > #fedora-meeting > > We shouldn't consider it permanent until: > > i. John and Jared get a chance to weigh in on the time matrix[1] I'm technically on vacation, but didn't update the vacation list, since I was planning to attend the FUDCon. I am available for this coming Tuesday at 2100 hrs UTC, which is 1600 hrs EST, or 4 PM. This is not a good time moving forward, once I leave the States. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From davidsonpaulo at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 15:32:24 2008 From: davidsonpaulo at gmail.com (Davidson Rodrigues Paulo) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 13:32:24 -0200 Subject: Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <4790A980.3050702@fedoraproject.org> References: <47904898.4090807@projetofedora.org> <4790A0A2.5090702@yahoo.com.br> <4790A980.3050702@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: 2008/1/18, Rahul Sundaram : > There was a open call in fedora-devel list and all of the names were > suggested from people in the community and need to pass through legal > review which has already been done. The names won't be changed now. So sugestions are made on fedora-devel... Good to know this. :-) We need to make more and better sugestions, because if that list contains only the better names among all those suggested, I don't want to imagine the names that were not been approved... I heard that the fisrt Fedora codenames were all alchool-related. Zod is a fiction character. Moonshine is a home-distilled alchool made specially in places where this production is illegal. Werewolf is a legendary monster. We really want to associate Fedora with alchool? Fedora is not made by drunks, I'm sure. Developers may drink, but they don't produce any code or work under effect of alchool, I'm sure (and, if yes, I think is better if Fedora users don't know that). And what about monsters? Has someone here ever seen a werewolf, a chupacabra, or Zod? Fedora is real, and its codename need to be something undoubtedly real. Finally, I can't figure out how 3 diseases names could be accepted as options. What type of marketing could we do with names like those, "Fedora 9: Sick, like you"? Why I'm saying this? Because we have a list with codenames that vary from bad to worst and we are responsible for this because we don't suggested better codenames. We need to participate this process before we start do have Fedora Dracula, Malt or Ebola... By now, let's choose a codename that is not so bad. Best regards, Davidson Paulo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DavidsonPaulo From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 18 16:04:40 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:04:40 -0500 Subject: meetin' times for FDSCo In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0801172034q3d66c6fj53d59785ab4a927b@mail.gmail.com> References: <1200620857.920.163.camel@calliope.phig.org> <9d2c731f0801172034q3d66c6fj53d59785ab4a927b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1200672280.19225.147.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 23:34 -0500, John Babich wrote: > On Jan 17, 2008 8:47 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > We almost seem to have a consensus on a good time for FDSCo to meet. > > Hoping John and Jared can make the time ... > > > > So, let's meet next: > > > > Tuesday 22 January > > 2100 UTC > > #fedora-meeting > > > > We shouldn't consider it permanent until: > > > > i. John and Jared get a chance to weigh in on the time matrix[1] > > I'm technically on vacation, but didn't update the vacation list, > since I was planning to attend the FUDCon. > > I am available for this coming Tuesday at 2100 hrs UTC, which is 1600 > hrs EST, or 4 PM. This is not a good time moving forward, once I leave > the States. Since we definitely want to plan ahead somewhat, now that we have a temporary time, can you update the matrix with times you think will work? Do you need to hold off until you have a better idea of your schedule? -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jan 19 16:24:10 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:24:10 -0800 Subject: remaining observations on "Managing Software with yum" In-Reply-To: <1200411296.27222.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200356889.27222.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478CBE3F.1080204@fedoraproject.org> <478CBEB4.5090106@christensenplace.us> <478CC1C9.3070709@fedoraproject.org> <1200411296.27222.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1200759850.20813.148.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 15:34 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I'd like Karsten to pitch in his US$0.02, but it might make good sense > to paste a header at the top of each draft page on the wiki with an > invitation to help. Then we can change the docs.fp.o link to send > people to the wiki draft so they see that work is going on and might > be > enticed to help. Yeah, I talked with Eric (Sparks++) about it, then put up a header at the docs.fp.o/yum page that points at the wiki draft. Last I saw, Jared was converting it to DocBook, so we could see it land back into CVS this week. - Karsten, happy -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jan 19 16:29:57 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 08:29:57 -0800 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1200760197.20813.154.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, 2008-01-14 at 18:47 -0700, Clint Savage wrote: > As is customary, I'm introducing myself to the fedora documentation project. > > I've been a member of the Fedora Project for about 6-8 months IIRC and > have been participating mostly in an Ambassadors role. However, as I > get a little more involved, I'd like to participate in further > projects and the docs is one where I feel I could help immensely. > This weekend, I attended my first FUDCon and met several people, of > which a few (Paul Frields, Jared Smith) are on the docs project as > well. And me too! :) > I find that I could probably help here as I'm regularly asked to > document things for my work regarding Fedora specific features and > thus could help the Fedora project to improve its documentation as > well in these areas (and others as I can). I am a linux instructor > (Guru is the title we get when we're hired) at a small company in Utah > called Guru Labs. We provide training for Red Hat and other companies > throughout the world. Its quite a fun job, and I get to see much of > the country (and sometimes world). Have you thought about using Fedora documentation as a basis for anything Guru Labs does? We're a pretty good upstream for content, and we (try!) to make it easy to re-brand a book. This combination of custom spins with re-brandable distro and documentation is pretty cool; I don't think any distro has yet made it quite this easy for anyone to make their "own" distro spin. BTW, howdy to Christer! Let him know when he is ready to take his superior community marketing skills to a new distro, we've always got room for him and his enthusiasm in the Fedora Project. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Jan 19 17:11:04 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 12:11:04 -0500 Subject: remaining observations on "Managing Software with yum" In-Reply-To: <1200759850.20813.148.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1200356889.27222.63.camel@localhost.localdomain> <478CBE3F.1080204@fedoraproject.org> <478CBEB4.5090106@christensenplace.us> <478CC1C9.3070709@fedoraproject.org> <1200411296.27222.111.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200759850.20813.148.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20080119171104.GA24227@localhost.localdomain> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Sat, Jan 19, 2008 at 08:24:10AM -0800, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Tue, 2008-01-15 at 15:34 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > I'd like Karsten to pitch in his US$0.02, but it might make good sense > > to paste a header at the top of each draft page on the wiki with an > > invitation to help. Then we can change the docs.fp.o link to send > > people to the wiki draft so they see that work is going on and might > > be > > enticed to help. > > Yeah, I talked with Eric (Sparks++) about it, then put up a header at > the docs.fp.o/yum page that points at the wiki draft. Last I saw, Jared > was converting it to DocBook, so we could see it land back into CVS this > week. > > - Karsten, happy > -- Yeah, I have a little more work to do on the wiki but it is minimal. I'm also working through all the bug reports in bugzilla that were relating to this document. I saw a few new plug-ins the other day that I wanted to address but that will come over the next few weeks. Hopefully the DocBook can but updated with what is there so the older, and partially inaccurate, data can be removed. Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHki8oL5V8yddJCO0RAgEfAJ9flHl3NIwb0Kk4mnU5wG8Ab/GPTACfS3BW JvUWcF22Ao25jFWadcViwho= =N115 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Jan 19 22:03:27 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 11:03:27 +1300 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update Message-ID: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> List, few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things: 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME) 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what KDE release goes in F9 3] New placeholder for AG conversion is https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta However, listed pages are still edited in their 'old' location: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/$section As agreed, I have cleaned the AG of stuff that will not be included. Pages that had content are now in Docs/Drafts and the references to those that were empty are removed. The core group of 3-4 people have committed to early March completion of the AG, more hands on deck are more than welcome. [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing Vladimir -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 20 00:30:06 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 09:30:06 +0900 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1200789006.26735.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 11:03 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > List, > > few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things: > > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME) > 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what > KDE release goes in F9 > 3] New placeholder for AG conversion is > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta > > However, listed pages are still edited in their 'old' location: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/$section > > As agreed, I have cleaned the AG of stuff that will not be included. > Pages that had content are now in Docs/Drafts and the references to > those that were empty are removed. > > The core group of 3-4 people have committed to early March completion of > the AG, more hands on deck are more than welcome. > > [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing > > Vladimir Does someone want to post the irc log somewhere. Cheers, Marc From eric at christensenplace.us Sun Jan 20 00:46:13 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 19:46:13 -0500 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <1200789006.26735.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <1200789006.26735.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20080120004613.GA26110@localhost.localdomain> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Maybe on the Docs Project wiki page? Eric On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 09:30:06AM +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 11:03 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > List, > > > > few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things: > > > > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME) > > 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what > > KDE release goes in F9 > > 3] New placeholder for AG conversion is > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta > > > > However, listed pages are still edited in their 'old' location: > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/$section > > > > As agreed, I have cleaned the AG of stuff that will not be included. > > Pages that had content are now in Docs/Drafts and the references to > > those that were empty are removed. > > > > The core group of 3-4 people have committed to early March completion of > > the AG, more hands on deck are more than welcome. > > > > [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing > > > > Vladimir > > Does someone want to post the irc log somewhere. > > Cheers, > > Marc > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHkpnVL5V8yddJCO0RAvl0AKCFMNU00DCDmK42L/Lc4QwYWJtj/ACdE8IR ydEg9SfCqVCeRM5tMhsyi0w= =2L/S -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From marceloramone at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 02:01:20 2008 From: marceloramone at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marcelo_Mart=EDnez?=) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 00:01:20 -0200 Subject: Please update Spanish Fedora Documentation and create central spanish forums! Message-ID: Hello, I'm Marcelo from Uruguay. The spanish Fedora users needs Updated spanish documentation. The documentation in spanish is out of date, and we need easy access to the documentation. When I visit fedoraproject.org the web is in spanish, (great!!) but when i navigate others web sections see are in "English", for example http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ (and every subsections there, including docs, of course) I think Red Hat is a worldwide linux leader and must give more resources to fedora, the documentation is very important and in fedora is poor. My English is basic and not good to make spanish translations of the documentation, but Red Hat can paid traductors. Another reclaim is about the forums... There is not central spanish forums for fedora, I think fedoraforums.org must create a "spanish section" or create a new forum for centralize all spanish questions and projects, like ubuntuforums loco teams subforums. Best Regars, Marcelo Mart?nez.- Sorry if you don't understand my bad English but I speak Spanish.- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 20 03:15:50 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:15:50 +0900 Subject: Please update Spanish Fedora Documentation and create central spanish forums! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1200798950.26735.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 00:01 -0200, Marcelo Mart?nez wrote: > Hello, > > I'm Marcelo from Uruguay. > > The spanish Fedora users needs Updated spanish documentation. > > The documentation in spanish is out of date, and we need easy access > to the documentation. > > When I visit fedoraproject.org the web is in spanish, (great!!) but > when i navigate others web sections see are in "English", for example > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ (and every subsections there, including > docs, of course) > > I think Red Hat is a worldwide linux leader and must give more > resources to fedora, the documentation is very important and in fedora > is poor. > > My English is basic and not good to make spanish translations of the > documentation, but Red Hat can paid traductors. > Fedora does not have any paid translators from RedHat working on it as part of their day job. The people in Fedora may work for Red Hat but they generally do not work on Fedora while at Red Hat. There are exceptions but generally people donate their time. Therefore my recommendation is that you try and do the translations where you can. > Another reclaim is about the forums... There is not central spanish > forums for fedora, I think fedoraforums.org must create a "spanish > section" or create a new forum for centralize all spanish questions > and projects, like ubuntuforums loco teams subforums. The fedoraforums are not run by the fedora project they are external but supportive of fedora. Your best bet is to talk to the people on the fedoraforums. From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 04:03:37 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2008 23:03:37 -0500 Subject: Please update Spanish Fedora Documentation and create central spanish forums! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1200801817.5183.55.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 00:01 -0200, Marcelo Mart?nez wrote: > Hello, > > I'm Marcelo from Uruguay. Hi Marcelo! > The spanish Fedora users needs Updated spanish documentation. > > The documentation in spanish is out of date, and we need easy access > to the documentation. > > When I visit fedoraproject.org the web is in spanish, (great!!) but > when i navigate others web sections see are in "English", for example > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ (and every subsections there, including > docs, of course) Yes, the translation of documents is entirely dependent on our volunteer translators. When a volunteer has time and energy to devote to it, we try to publish their work as quickly as possible. (We're also volunteers.) :-) > I think Red Hat is a worldwide linux leader and must give more > resources to fedora, the documentation is very important and in fedora > is poor. I'm sorry to hear you don't think highly of our documentation. We have a very small volunteer staff and work hard in our spare time to do all we can. Although I've just recently been hired by Red Hat, I've been a volunteer in Documentation for the past 4 years, and helped write some of the things you see on our web site. However, I don't have any Spanish skills and can't translate them! > My English is basic and not good to make spanish translations of the > documentation, but Red Hat can paid traductors. Unfortunately, that's a model that doesn't scale well. What happens if Red Hat wants to spend money on other programs? Instead, the Fedora Project is all about *growing community* to accomplish these and other goals. By encouraging people to get involved, to help push the boundaries of free and open source software, to multiply the kind of services and systems it can provide, we "grow our own" resources. By encouraging, teaching, and helping others, we become our own best means of support. There is in fact a Spanish translation community -- you should visit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N for more information. You don't have to do entire translations yourself, but from reading your email, I can tell that you have enough English skills to help the team. Every little bit counts! The Spanish translation list for Fedora is located at: http://redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-es It's obvious that Fedora and free and open source software matter to you -- we would love for you to get involved and help us bring better Spanish language support to everyone. > Another reclaim is about the forums... There is not central spanish > forums for fedora, I think fedoraforums.org must create a "spanish > section" or create a new forum for centralize all spanish questions > and projects, like ubuntuforums loco teams subforums. Unfortunately, we don't handle those forums, but you can use the links at that site to get in touch with their administrator staff if you have questions or issues. > Sorry if you don't understand my bad English but I speak Spanish.- Actually, it was not hard at all to understand you. Good luck and I hope you get involved! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 20 06:22:59 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:22:59 +0900 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <1200789006.26735.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <1200789006.26735.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4792E8C3.4020309@mwiriadi.id.au> IRC meeting can be located at. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MarcWiriadisastra Those people who couldn't make it can have a quick read of it. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 20 06:43:54 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:43:54 +0900 Subject: Centralised Docs Message-ID: <1200811434.26735.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Can we sort out or generate a list of documents that are available on the wiki that are available. I bring this up because there seems to be docs all over the place and a lot of information is located on the wiki but isn't referenced except from other docs. Cheers, Marc From herlo1 at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 09:20:15 2008 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 02:20:15 -0700 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <1200760197.20813.154.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1200760197.20813.154.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: > And me too! :) Quaid, who could forget about you! :) > Have you thought about using Fedora documentation as a basis for > anything Guru Labs does? We're a pretty good upstream for content, and > we (try!) to make it easy to re-brand a book. > > This combination of custom spins with re-brandable distro and > documentation is pretty cool; I don't think any distro has yet made it > quite this easy for anyone to make their "own" distro spin. > > BTW, howdy to Christer! Let him know when he is ready to take his > superior community marketing skills to a new distro, we've always got > room for him and his enthusiasm in the Fedora Project. :) > > - Karsten Karsten, I totally agree that Guru Labs (GL) could benefit from much of what is already out there regarding the Fedora Docs project. I am working on learning DocBook so I can better compare it with what GL currently uses for documentation, which is from what I can tell, a proprietary [I think] xml based project which has at least some of the functionality of DocBook. As far as distro spins, we actually try to stay as close to Fedora as we can because we generally teach the more enterprise level topics, RAID, LVM, BIND, Postfix, etc. Though a GL distro would be rad! Thanks for the email and I've also CC'd christer on this mail specifically. Hopefully he won't mind too much :) Cheers, Clint From mailtoria at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 18:32:41 2008 From: mailtoria at gmail.com (Ria Das) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 00:02:41 +0530 Subject: mitwi on track again Message-ID: <74b2a9490801201032v2bb207b4o55919c4bce9ad43b@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, My project mitwi which deals with "Publication of all man and info pages for each release through a web interface" is back on track again. Presently it is hosted under dgplug site. http://mitwi.dgplug.org When you click on the above-stated site you will get an option to change the language in which you want to view the pages. You can select the language according to your choice and then you will have to click on 'change language'. Your language is change now. Now you can select any one of the releases. Presently only F7 release is available. So you will have to select Fedora 7. You have to then select one of the page types. Presently info pages are not available, so you will have to select man. Then on clicking on 'show commands' it will show you the names of commands an an alphabetical order. You can click on any of the commands to view it's man page. You also have a search option where you can search a particular command. On searching a command it's name, page type and release will be shown. You can click on the command name to view it's page. If you want direct link to any man page you can use links like http://mitwi.dgplug.org/man/man1/ls.1.html You can get this direct link in any man page opened in miwi which is at the top of the page. There are lot of bugs which I am fixing slowly. regards Ria From stickster at gmail.com Sun Jan 20 18:39:24 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:39:24 -0500 Subject: Getting Involved Guide Message-ID: <1200854364.5183.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> Docs Project colleagues, The following thoughts come out of the sessions we had at FUDCon about doing a better job involving new contributors in Fedora. I'm going to start out with the summary, so if you don't want to read all of this you can skip it and immediately make comments. Those of you who want a larger picture can read more after the summary. Please keep in mind that I am not yet paid by Red Hat, and this message comes from me as a fellow contributor, and not the FPL. As always, it will be up to each of us to evaluate what effort we want to give to Fedora, and where we put it. I hope the following will give you some inspiration about Fedora's future.... * * * * * THE PUNCHLINE: For its size, the Docs Project has done great things thanks to the energy and generosity of its members. But in the post-F9 era, we need to get off the treadmill of simple user/admin documentation, which is duplicated many times over in both the free and for-pay spheres, and move to goals that are more contributor-oriented. * * * * * THE LONG VERSION: Originally I suggested a "Developer Guide Reboot" session and hackfest, a document that would support entry of developers into the project. It would give a tour of some important packages and online resources so they wouldn't have to navigate a metric boatload of wiki pages to get started. Over time, though, it became clear that this wasn't just an issue about developers, but about contributors of all flavors. Part of our "lowering barriers" mission has to be about encouraging and educating people who aren't doing just coding jobs, but website/infrastructure folks, artists, documentation writers, coding and non-coding packagers, ambassadors, and just plain friends. Historically, the Docs Project has concerned itself mainly with helpful user/administrator level guides, but by focusing on the trees, we may be missing the mark on the forest, so to speak. There are a huge number of existing guides and tutorials on the web -- not all of them authoritative -- and a full selection of dead-tree books to be had at any bookstore. Is it really worth our time to be competing on that level? I say this not to call into question the excellent work that's being done by contributors, but to get people thinking about the post-F9 Docs Project, and where we should be focusing our sights. If Fedora does not grow and extend its contributor base, it will wither over time. We cannot demand that the same people do the same work in Fedora for extended periods; people change and grow, and naturally move on to other Fedora tasks, the same way they move on to other jobs, homes, or ways of thinking. Instead, we should focus on bringing new entities into the project and giving them the resources they need to contribute to the project. Note that I say "entities" and not "people," because Fedora also stands to gain if we bring in additional commercial or other non-individual contributors who themselves gain from a contributory partnership in Fedora. Fedora needs to grow also beyond just its partnership with and sponsorship by Red Hat. By doing that, we secure the health of the project in a more sustainable way. The idea of the Developer Guide for these reasons was transformed during our working sessions at FUDCon into a "Get Involved Guide" (GIG). This sort of documentation allows us to escape the treadmill of trying to update countless pages of advice on how to perform end-user tasks that do not necessarily help people contribute to Fedora (and thus help it grow and thrive). Michael Tiemann stated in his speech at FUDCon that the future of IT commerce is in "the communities that [companies] build." If we want to position Fedora at the forefront of open source in the 21st century, we must think larger than simply showing people how to run Fedora -- we need to show people how they can *get involved*, not just in Fedora documentation, or packaging, or feature development, but in the many fields of endeavor this project covers. I would also make the point that what you read above is not the end of the whole Fedora vision, but just a facet of a larger idea which I am still fleshing out with other Fedora leaders. As always, we will be talking about this much more in the future with as much openness and transparency as possible, to encourage community input, awareness, and enthusiasm. * * * * * As you all know, I am not one for long, rambling emails when I can avoid them. They try my patience too! But nevertheless, there are many positive messages in the above ideas. I have a huge amount of respect for the work everyone is doing, and I hope you will not find the above to be a criticism, but rather a "leap-ahead" vision for where we should set our sights for goals after Fedora 9. "DOCS ROCKS!" -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 20 23:18:07 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 08:18:07 +0900 Subject: Getting Involved Guide In-Reply-To: <1200854364.5183.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200854364.5183.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1200871088.3569.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 13:39 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Docs Project colleagues, > > THE PUNCHLINE: For its size, the Docs Project has done great things > thanks to the energy and generosity of its members. But in the post-F9 > era, we need to get off the treadmill of simple user/admin > documentation, which is duplicated many times over in both the free and > for-pay spheres, and move to goals that are more contributor-oriented. I read the whole email so my comments should be prefaced that way. I both agree and disagree I think the docs as a whole should provide sufficient documentation to take someone who is relatively new to Linux, note I didn't say computers, and provide them with knowledge along the way to get to that contributor state. I think that while the contributor documentation is important for the longer term health of the project it is no less important than the start either. Myself I started using Linux from FC1. I was lucky I had a lot of help from a friend otherwise I would have given up a long time ago. Now I've been around the project for awhile I feel the logical next step is to help package, document and market Fedora for other people. I went through the steps of doing it. The documentation I found lacking was contributor documentation because it is a changing flag pole. The examples of creating spec files and the rpmguide takes you so far. The rest of the documentation is scattered and the search function on the wiki is a nightmare. My first package took me about 2 months of fixes before it would function. Credit to the sponsor for sponsoring me and having the patience a lot of people are to busy sadly. While the docs project has spent it's time on user focused documentation I envisage a situation similar to the gentoo set up. Where the basic documentation is there linked on the front of the wiki and updated. At the moment our documentation is scattered, which was the reason for my previous email. The next step is the contributor documentation which is also scattered throughout the wiki. We are not far away from where I envisage we should be. Once the two docs are finished updating of the smaller guides and linking them I think would solve a significant amount of issues. The next step is the contributor documentation which is mainly consolidating the information that's already around. My 0.02 Marc P.S. Excuse the hell long email. From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 21 07:51:52 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:51:52 -0800 Subject: Get Involved Guide In-Reply-To: <1200854364.5183.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200854364.5183.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1200901913.20813.264.camel@calliope.phig.org> Note: Subject changed from what must have been a typo. :) On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 13:39 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > THE PUNCHLINE: For its size, the Docs Project has done great things > thanks to the energy and generosity of its members. But in the post-F9 > era, we need to get off the treadmill of simple user/admin > documentation, which is duplicated many times over in both the free and > for-pay spheres, and move to goals that are more contributor-oriented. Flying back from Raleigh, I did a bit more work on the diagram that I was pushing around on the back of a napkin whilst we discussed the Fedora GIG. What we've been doing all along: http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/Docs-role-current.png Where we need to go if we want to make a bigger impact on Fedora: http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/Docs-role-future.png I'll respond to Marc's email because I think he raises some appropriate points to address. My summary is simple: * Docs is a natural leader in helping to improve the formal project documentation, such as maintaining a Get Involved Guide that points to myriad locations (wiki, account system, various VCS, etc.) * We can also keep our eye on the more informal contributor-oriented content, because this is a good thing that helps us maintain the GIG. * We want to keep away from informal, end-user focused content. As Paul says, end-user-focused content is very common and hard to compete against. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to produce useful end-user content. It simply means that we have to have a reason to exist as a project outside of just producing yet another set of Fedora how-to docs. * What we have that is unique is an inside view and understanding of how to contribute to Fedora. Sharing this knowledge is potentially much more valuable than sharing "How to do Foo." - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 21 07:57:48 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 23:57:48 -0800 Subject: Getting Involved Guide In-Reply-To: <1200871088.3569.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200854364.5183.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200871088.3569.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1200902268.20813.271.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 08:18 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > I both agree and disagree I think the docs as a whole should provide > sufficient documentation to take someone who is relatively new to Linux, > note I didn't say computers, and provide them with knowledge along the > way to get to that contributor state. I think that while the > contributor documentation is important for the longer term health of the > project it is no less important than the start either. I don't think Paul is proposing that we *drop* end-user content, but that we add writing and maintaining contributor content, put up as at least the same level of priority. We already have more end-user content to maintain than active Docs contributors can handle. Unless we find a way to grow this project, we'll end up dropping some of that content (again.) It is satisfying to help one or a handful of users to accomplish something important. It is equally satisfying, and arguably more important, to teach one or more people how to get involved and become part of the solution. It's the old, "Give them fish and you feed them for a day, teach them how to fish for themselves and you feed them for a lifetime." > The next step is the contributor documentation which is mainly > consolidating the information that's already around. My recommendation here is guide rather than consolidate -- point to where the content exists, which is often maintained by the sub-project itself. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 21 08:28:35 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 00:28:35 -0800 Subject: Centralised Docs In-Reply-To: <1200811434.26735.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200811434.26735.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1200904115.20813.278.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 15:43 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Can we sort out or generate a list of documents that are available on > the wiki that are available. > > I bring this up because there seems to be docs all over the place and a > lot of information is located on the wiki but isn't referenced except > from other docs. Right, this leads in from the Fedora GIG conversation. Historically, what you found on the wiki was not "docs". It was content from sub-projects and under their control. Guiding new contributors through the Fedora GIG covers some of what I think you are talking about. The rest might benefit from a reorganization, such as what we proposed for Wiki Gardening: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening#New_Organizational_Scheme However, when it comes to "docs" that are owned/maintained by other sub-projects, the best we can do is offer to help. If they don't like our ideas or want our help, there isn't much we can do. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 21 10:17:37 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 19:17:37 +0900 Subject: Getting Involved Guide In-Reply-To: <1200902268.20813.271.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1200854364.5183.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200871088.3569.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200902268.20813.271.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1200910657.3569.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> > I don't think Paul is proposing that we *drop* end-user content, but > that we add writing and maintaining contributor content, put up as at > least the same level of priority. > > We already have more end-user content to maintain than active Docs > contributors can handle. Unless we find a way to grow this project, > we'll end up dropping some of that content (again.) > I personally think that is getting better since the new people involved in the project are helping out. > It is satisfying to help one or a handful of users to accomplish > something important. It is equally satisfying, and arguably more > important, to teach one or more people how to get involved and become > part of the solution. > I agree > It's the old, "Give them fish and you feed them for a day, teach them > how to fish for themselves and you feed them for a lifetime." > > > The next step is the contributor documentation which is mainly > > consolidating the information that's already around. > > My recommendation here is guide rather than consolidate -- point to > where the content exists, which is often maintained by the sub-project > itself. > > - Karsten My definition of consolidate does not mean take control rather make it accessible to people who don't know where to look not the docs project write it and control it. By way of example: I had a question on #fedora-devel today about where to find python packaging examples now I knew where to look because I had spent time searching the web previously. If we had a 'consolidated' guide on where to find things such as packaging docs -> python then even if it is owned by the packaging people it would be easy to find. In the two diagrams what do you mean by formal and informal? I agree with the overall concept but I don't see how we can achieve this. I had a concern that we were moving away from end user docs rather we are broadening our horizons. Cheers, Marc From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 21 18:33:46 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2008 10:33:46 -0800 Subject: Getting Involved Guide In-Reply-To: <1200910657.3569.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1200854364.5183.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200871088.3569.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200902268.20813.271.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1200910657.3569.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1200940426.26872.73.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 19:17 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > I don't think Paul is proposing that we *drop* end-user content, but > > that we add writing and maintaining contributor content, put up as at > > least the same level of priority. > > > > We already have more end-user content to maintain than active Docs > > contributors can handle. Unless we find a way to grow this project, > > we'll end up dropping some of that content (again.) > > > > I personally think that is getting better since the new people involved > in the project are helping out. +1 As Paul said, this work is definitely going well; no marks against that work! Where I'm coming from, and I'm presuming Paul is thinking something similar, is the experience of being in your shoes -- newer to the project and enthusiastic about the content I'm working on. I want to see folks able to work on what pleases them. I don't want you all to get burned and burned out. I want to see a healthy influx of new contributors, ways to make it easy for them to do great stuff, and make it desirable to old(er) hands to cycle in and out of Docs at-will. > My definition of consolidate does not mean take control rather make it > accessible to people who don't know where to look not the docs project > write it and control it. Excellent, then we are all talking about the same thing. :) > In the two diagrams what do you mean by formal and informal? Formal - follows a process to get produced, including QA (draft, edit, final), conversion to XML, translation, and publication. Informal - casual editing space (wiki-based, one-off tutorials in fedorapeople.org or mailing lists or fedoraforum.org), not necessarily edited (wordsmith), tends to be responsive to immediate needs but not written for the long-term (one-off, throw-away). > I agree > with the overall concept but I don't see how we can achieve this. One step at a time. :) There is an interim step between the two diagrams I showed, which is here (section renamed): http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WikiGardening#Docs_Services_Matrix The near-term goal is to tackle "formal contributor content", and that just means the Fedora GIG. There is room for more there, but that is a great start. > I had > a concern that we were moving away from end user docs rather we are > broadening our horizons. Paul has a legitimate point that a metric tonne of end-user content already exists, so we should have a discussion about our future in that. I think we'll always do end-user content, but maybe we pick and choose differently. For example, a formal installation guide is something we could always produce, but maybe we don't want to get into digital media production. It's fun stuff, but since it changes so often it might be better as informal content. Same folks could work on it, just with less of a rigorous process. Anyway, that is just an open discussion, not a foregone conclusion. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 22 19:18:11 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:18:11 -0800 Subject: Xmlto-0.0.20 with experimental fop support In-Reply-To: <1200927109.4002.8.camel@dhcp-lab-219.englab.brq.redhat.com> References: <1200927109.4002.8.camel@dhcp-lab-219.englab.brq.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1201029491.10247.151.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, 2008-01-21 at 15:51 +0100, Ond?ej Va??k wrote: > Hello, > as requested in RHBugzilla #147472 , comment #6 by Karsten Wade, I'd > like to inform you that xmlto with fop support is available > in rawhide branch. > I did a few tests with fop, seems to work properly (only sometimes I had > some troubles with special characters but maybe caused by my not 100% > perfect configuration of fop). Karsten said that it would be good to > test it by Fedora Docs toolchain, so I would appreciate any feedback to > improve fop support or to fix some possible issues. Thanks. I'll work on getting a rawhide install going to do the testing. Anyone else interested and capable? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From diegobz at gmail.com Tue Jan 22 19:22:55 2008 From: diegobz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Diego_B=FArigo_Zacar=E3o?=) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:22:55 -0200 Subject: Docs on Transifex Message-ID: <6600c1b10801221122y43a7f81l40d4fe0743d560df@mail.gmail.com> Hi, All! I have noted that we have just a doc module (Install Guide) on transifex to be commited translations[1]. It's the time to use more intensely our new web tool to commit translations and I would like to ask to include other essential docs modules there: docs-common release-notes homepage about-fedora readme readme-burning-isos readme-live-image If any help is need to do it, please tell me. [1] https://translate.fedoraproject.org/submit/module/ Regards -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o Linux User #402589 USE SOFTWARE LIVRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 22 19:50:54 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 11:50:54 -0800 Subject: meeting reminder 2100 UTC today Message-ID: <1201031454.10247.162.camel@calliope.phig.org> Reminder that we are having our first meeting of the new year and first meeting of the new FDSCo. #fedora-meeting 2100 UTC 22 Jan http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 22 22:35:38 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 14:35:38 -0800 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-01-22 IRC log Message-ID: <1201041338.10247.171.camel@calliope.phig.org> 13:05 < stickster> 13:05 < stickster> here 13:05 * couf 13:06 * EvilBob 13:06 * jsmith is here 13:06 < stickster> great! Quorum :-) 13:06 < EvilBob> sweet 13:06 -!- stickster changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project: F9 docs review 13:07 * Sparks is here somewhere 13:07 < stickster> OK, couf can talk about the AG status 13:07 < couf> OK 13:07 < couf> even DUG actually :-) 13:07 < stickster> Yes indeedy :-) 13:08 < couf> both AG and DUG are targeting release at F9-beta which is beginning of March 13:08 < couf> had a small meeting this weekend with the core group, meeting log and summary posted to the group 13:09 < couf> basic needs are input from KDE-knowlegable people for DUG and some server-fu specialists to check down AG 13:09 < jsmith> I'd be happy to look through the AG 13:09 < couf> both are pretty much on target as it is, so it's shaping up to become good 13:09 < stickster> couf: What recruiting are you and the other writers doing to get KDE people to examine the docs? 13:09 < couf> core group is committed to "get it done" so that's very good 13:10 * stickster has found the only way to get developers focused is by pestering them politely, loudly and repeatedly 13:10 < couf> we've tried to get the KDE-sig on board but they don't have manpower available 13:10 < couf> so we're going to track some people on the fedora-list, and probably try and trick some upstream guys into checking our work 13:10 < stickster> Some blogging might be good... 13:10 < EvilBob> couf: I will see if I can pick anyone out of #fedora that might be willing to step up 13:11 * stickster tries to think up some other ways to attract eyeballs 13:11 < couf> EvilBob: much appreciated 13:11 < stickster> messages to KDE docs team? 13:11 < couf> yep 13:11 * quaid is finally here 13:12 < stickster> I know Fedora has a thriving KDE user community -- *some* of those folks have to be interested in having good KDE docs! 13:12 < couf> blogging might be a good one too 13:12 < couf> indeed 13:12 < stickster> If we can't get KDE love, what's the drop back plan? 13:12 < stickster> Is there one? 13:12 < stickster> Hi quaid! 13:12 * stickster hands over gavel 13:12 < quaid> hola amigos y amigas 13:13 < couf> not really, the idea would be to use the KDE docs itself, but they have different licenses 13:13 < couf> which could be messy 13:13 < quaid> exactly 13:13 < couf> GFDL iirc 13:13 < quaid> that would be the upstreadm suggestion, typically 13:13 < couf> yeah 13:13 < quaid> so ... 13:14 < quaid> we have to pressure within the project 13:14 < quaid> and kindly ask without 13:14 < quaid> +1 to fedora-list asking 13:14 < quaid> is there one person doing this seeking for KDE help? 13:14 < couf> we've got some work on XFCE too, btw (jmbusser is handling that) 13:14 < couf> yeah, marc wiriadisastra is doing that 13:15 < quaid> fallback == beta has GNOME only, work on KDE for beta2? 13:15 * couf hopes he got that name right :-) 13:15 -!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 85 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 84 normal] 13:15 < stickster> couf: it's right :-) 13:15 < quaid> strikeforce++ 13:15 * nirik is happy to answer Xfce questions as well. 13:15 < couf> quaid: possible, yes 13:15 < EvilBob> nirik: thanks 13:15 < couf> the idea was to have both AG and DUG ready so we can tackle IG, relnotes etc after 13:16 < quaid> is there a schedule with milestones from here to beta? 13:16 < couf> not set in stone 13:16 < quaid> we need enough time to convert to XML 13:16 < stickster> For AG/DUG, maybe not -- for relnotes, http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/ has milestones for things like relnotes 13:16 < quaid> with training for new folks, so make it a bit longer 13:16 < stickster> sorry, redundancy 13:16 < quaid> stickster: just an internal schedule so we are on time 13:16 < quaid> that is 13:16 < quaid> don't miss an obvious dependency, etc. :) 13:17 < stickster> poelcat can help us with that if we desire. 13:17 < couf> heh 13:17 -!- antgreen__ [n=green at nat/redhat/x-7afb8a70da5dec4d] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:17 < quaid> couf: do you want final wordsmith and technical edits in Wiki or after in XML? 13:17 < quaid> i.e., where is it easier and does the other writers the most good? 13:17 * quaid thinks maybe wiki, from that ... 13:17 * stickster hopes he is not volunteering poelcat out-fo-turn 13:17 < couf> I think as it is now, we can have the DUG and AG ready by half Feb in wiki terms, which gives us a lot off time 13:18 < couf> quaid: would be best wiki-way, as to help for further versions, if me do them 13:18 < couf> s/me/we 13:18 < quaid> couf: can you make a draft schedule? just working backwards like that 13:18 < couf> sure 13:18 < quaid> include X days (5?) for wiki edit, and similar for conversion to XML 13:18 < quaid> ok, we can get poelcat to add it to the overall docs schedule after that 13:19 < quaid> and jmbuser can use the template for the DUG 13:19 * couf adds to TODO 13:19 -!- jlaska [n=jlaska at nat/redhat/x-9326078e383ea5fc] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:19 < quaid> yeah, then we can get the schedule to correctly reflect when we do the IG and relnotes work 13:19 < poelcat> just open a ticket at poelcat.hosted ;-) 13:19 < couf> so just want to give a thumbs up to both marc and vladimir, they been doing terrific work 13:19 < quaid> nice! 13:19 < stickster> Who's the man!?! 13:19 -!- antgreen__ [n=green at nat/redhat/x-49e6128e5ad7196e] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:20 < quaid> couf: +1 to that 13:20 < stickster> couf: amen 13:20 < quaid> I've been trying not to overpraise and stuff, but they are certainly worthy of the Big Fedora Love 13:21 * couf ends DUG-AG status 13:22 < quaid> ok, relnotes prep ... 13:22 < quaid> 1. time to start advertising the Docs/Beats for other contributos 13:22 < quaid> 2. recruit more dedicated help? 13:22 < quaid> we need someone with eyes like mether 13:23 < quaid> s/one/ones/ ? 13:23 < stickster> There have been a number of changes rolling in already 13:23 < quaid> yes 13:23 < quaid> here's the question from me ... 13:23 < quaid> we've tried the regular beat maintainers, and it is hot-or-miss 13:23 < quaid> most of the work comes from a small handful 13:23 < quaid> what is the right thing to do from here? 13:23 < quaid> 13:23 < stickster> blog blog blog 13:23 < quaid> s/hot/hit/ :) 13:24 < quaid> ah, nagmail++ 13:24 < quaid> blognag 13:24 < stickster> Isn't that a town in Ireland? 13:24 < jsmith> Does it taste like eggnog? 13:24 < quaid> yes and yes 13:24 * stickster apologizes to any residents of the Auld Sod listening in 13:25 < couf> different approach maybe: starting from the features list and working through that to get the people behind them doing some content 13:25 < quaid> isn't there a section in the feature page for relnotes content? 13:26 < couf> d'oh, /me feels sheepish 13:27 < stickster> Ouch, wiki getting pounded today apparently. 13:27 < stickster> Yes, they each have a place for that content 13:27 < stickster> Doesn't appear to be filled in for at least some of them 13:27 * stickster hasn't counted but is not optimistic :-D 13:28 < quaid> couf: no, that is a good point 13:28 < quaid> couf: and another reason to blog, creating more attention :) 13:28 < quaid> poelcat: is completion of release notes/marketing spew required for a feature to be complete? 13:29 < quaid> this is the release we SWORE we would get the overviews synced and from one canonical source ... 13:29 < couf> ah that way it might be interesting 13:29 * EvilBob swears all the time anyhow 13:30 < poelcat> quaid: not exactly 13:30 < quaid> Marketing SIG may still decide to write up a higher level overview, but we can coordinate 13:30 < EvilBob> poelcat: fix that for F10 13:30 < stickster> Yes, we want to draw all OverView from one source 13:30 < poelcat> or at all :-/ 13:30 < EvilBob> lol 13:30 < quaid> poelcat: :( 13:30 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si at fedora/kital] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 13:30 < poelcat> the focus is really on "does the functionality work" 13:31 < quaid> well 13:31 < stickster> "If a tree falls in the woods and no one hears it..." 13:31 < quaid> that's more of a focus of a package set :) 13:31 < poelcat> and when a feature is submitted prior to feature freeze a lot of times those things are TBD 13:31 < quaid> a feature needs more than that 13:31 < quaid> well, needs to be completed by some point, not at the start 13:31 < poelcat> sometimes rightfully and other times procrastination? :) 13:32 < quaid> poelcat: would you agree to the concept of "release notes and some attempt at a lousy marketing blurb" as a feature completion requirement? for the future, that is ... 13:32 < poelcat> quaid: i'll let someone else propose to FESCo that features be dropped if the release notes aren't complete ;-) 13:32 < quaid> ok 13:32 < poelcat> quaid: it seems reasonable to me, though I have a hunch the developers/maintainers may not agree 13:32 < quaid> poelcat: as Feature Wrangler, can you kindly ask folks when you interact with them to complete those parts by ... 13:33 < quaid> and we can see how that goes 13:33 < poelcat> quaid: glad to 13:33 < quaid> if there is universal adoption and no need for onerousness, why wrestle with FESCo on it? 13:33 * stickster will raise this with bpepple 13:33 < poelcat> and if there are particular ones you want me to nag, send me mail 13:33 < stickster> At least we should alert him what we're doing 13:34 < quaid> stickster: my point, as I'm sure you know, is that Fedora is more than a bunch of packages that work together :) 13:34 < stickster> Absolutely 13:34 < quaid> k 13:34 < quaid> all: please blog wihin the next 10 days about: 13:34 < quaid> * relnotes beats (Docs/Beats/) 13:34 < quaid> 0r * features content 13:34 < quaid> or * new beat writers 13:35 < quaid> anything else on this topic? 13:35 < couf> what needs to be done for the one-page relnotes? 13:35 * quaid waits for stickster ... 13:35 < stickster> Is there any concern about us now being another RH bureaucratic layer strangling poor, hapless developers who are trying to GTD? 13:36 < quaid> couf: hold that thought one sec ... 13:36 < quaid> stickster: but we are Fedora!!! :) 13:36 < quaid> stickster: for the features request? 13:36 < stickster> And you can too 13:36 < stickster> Right 13:36 < quaid> here's the thing, IMNSHO about features 13:36 < quaid> if you want to call yourself a feature and get the attention 13:36 < quaid> it means more than just completing shit and making it work on time 13:36 < jsmith> stickster: "I am Fedora and You Can Too"? 13:36 < stickster> jsmith: exactly 13:37 < quaid> it means you are willing to be called up to the stage in a conference to talk about it 13:37 < quaid> it means you are willing to be a community leader about it 13:37 < jsmith> stickster: That's the title of your next blog post, btw 13:37 < quaid> it means you are willing to do the marketing, sales, etc. 13:37 < stickster> jsmith: obsolete already I think 13:37 < stickster> quaid: +1, just FYI 13:37 < quaid> if not, then don't ask Fedora to "care" about your feature enough to devote so much time to it 13:37 < quaid> that's my thinking :) 13:37 < couf> +1 13:37 < stickster> We're just making sure that people watching this channel know *why* we're asking for this. 13:37 < jsmith> If it's worth writing, it's worth documenting/marketing/plugging 13:37 < stickster> Exactly. 13:38 < quaid> jsmith +1 13:38 < stickster> So, all you eavesdroppers -- make us care! 13:38 < couf> that's the idea :-) 13:38 < jmtaylor> should that be something that get added to the feature form? a note about expected commitment? 13:38 < quaid> stickster: thanks for the excuse to rant, though :) 13:38 < stickster> quaid: NP, I live to serve. 13:38 < quaid> jmtaylor: good question; not sure if that is part of the feature process or expectation, but I think it should be 13:38 < quaid> ok, now to couf's question ... 13:38 < quaid> the one-sheet 13:39 < quaid> we need content for it, and we can draw that from the existing state of Docs/Beats 13:39 < quaid> so we don't have to recruit for it, but we might want to. 13:40 < quaid> as a reminder of what the one-sheet is ... 13:40 < quaid> this is a single Wiki page that we can link from the alpha, beta ISOs 13:40 < quaid> so we can change it up to the last minute, link updated bug reports from it, etc. 13:41 < quaid> it also is a quick-overview of what is in this alpha, beta that is noteworthy 13:41 < quaid> supposed to be lower-impact work to Docs compared to what we did before, which was a full run from Wiki => XML + translation for each test release 13:41 < quaid> *whew* 13:42 < quaid> so, in many ways, the content "belongs" to release eng (f13), features (poelcat), etc. 13:42 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/8/Test/F8Test2/ReleaseNotes 13:42 < couf> quaid you steal my words 13:42 < couf> but do continue 13:42 < quaid> couf: maybe I should stop talking :) 13:42 < quaid> stickster: F8Test? 13:43 < stickster> That's the last one-sheet we did for the previous cycle 13:43 < quaid> oh, right, sorry 13:43 * quaid is lost in version numbering 13:43 < stickster> Just for reference in case people haven't seen that one 13:43 < stickster> There's a lot of copy/paste material in there. 13:43 < quaid> so we need Releases/9/Alpha/ReleaseNotes 13:44 < poelcat> quaid: good reminder for me to ping the feature owners for a status update 13:44 < couf> yeah, so same counts here: get blogging, news-spreading and let the people behind it create the content :-) 13:44 < stickster> Thank you poelcat: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-docs-details.html 13:44 * stickster notes the dates are a bit off because of the 1-week Alpha slide 13:45 < poelcat> stickster: i'll fix that 13:45 < stickster> poelcat: Thanks! :-) 13:45 < stickster> Fortunately it hasn't rippled 13:45 < poelcat> that's what I get for lurking on this channel... more action items :) 13:46 < quaid> heh 13:46 < stickster> poor poelcat 13:46 * EvilBob thinks that is how he became FDSCo 13:46 < stickster> Oh my, we're 40 minutes in and haven't covered a few other items 13:47 < quaid> yep, let's move on 13:47 < stickster> quaid and I have to bail in time to make the next meeting :-D 13:47 < quaid> aye 13:47 < quaid> ok, so IG 13:47 < stickster> So... IG. :-) 13:47 < quaid> two approaches: 13:47 < quaid> 1. raw recruit 13:47 < stickster> I can definitely *help* 13:47 < quaid> 2. build on what is working so far 13:48 < quaid> what I mean by 2 is, let's old and new hands make sure the AG and DUG hit their target, then that frees *all* of us up to split up the IG work 13:48 < quaid> in there we build the skills to do the relnotes work, as well 13:48 < stickster> right 13:48 < quaid> (which coinicidentally leads to the next agenda item :) 13:48 < couf> that's the basic goal yes 13:48 < stickster> Hey, how'd *that* get there?!? 13:48 < quaid> stickster: can you advertise for a co-maintainer who will take over post F9? 13:48 < stickster> jsmith is too modest 13:48 < stickster> quaid: absosmurfly 13:48 < quaid> and then set the expectation that you are there to mentor and the group is there to help? 13:49 < jsmith> stickster: Who, me? 13:49 < stickster> Yeah, you! 13:49 < stickster> quaid: +1 13:49 < stickster> That will be blog #2 tonight 13:49 * stickster already preparing blog #1 for relnotes 13:50 < EvilBob> stickster: I am willing to take that on if you mentor me, I do as many or more installs in a release lifetime as anyone 13:50 < EvilBob> stickster: plus I really need a document 13:50 < EvilBob> stickster: talking about the IG 13:50 < couf> EvilBob++ 13:50 < jsmith> :-) 13:51 < stickster> I am here to help whoever wants to take it on 13:51 < stickster> It's not *quite* as bad as it seems, honestly 13:51 < couf> jsmith: has the yum-guide :-) 13:51 < quaid> sorry, had to pay the heater repair fella 13:52 < quaid> ok, last item 13:52 < quaid> training 13:52 < quaid> we are doing a ton more wiki2xml this time 13:52 < quaid> so we really need a process, how-to, etc. 13:52 -!- loupgaroublond [n=yankee at pool-71-182-215-182.pitbpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:52 < jsmith> quaid: Agreed! 13:52 < jsmith> quaid: I'm happy to help write that, after I finish wrapping my head around it all 13:53 < quaid> let's cobble together our notes this week and have it as an action/task to have a beta usable how-to by next week? 13:53 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tools/Wiki2XML 13:53 < stickster> May just need to be refreshed 13:53 < jsmith> Fair enough 13:53 < quaid> yeah 13:53 < couf> +1 13:53 < jsmith> stickster: Why didn't you show me that last week? 13:53 * jsmith ducks 13:53 < quaid> that page + how-to with steps 13:53 < stickster> jsmith: Oops, I just remembered it because quaid triggered my supermnemonic memory with the title meme 13:53 < quaid> jsmith: leaky carpenter's roof? 13:54 < quaid> ironically ... I named that page, too, and forgot about it 13:54 * quaid updates WorkFlow 13:54 < stickster> This very topic is one that jsmith and I were working on the other night with the yum guide 13:54 < jsmith> quaid: The cobbler's kids have no shoes... 13:55 < jsmith> stickster: Speaking of which... I have a lot more things to go back through on the yum guide 13:55 < EvilBob> We do have another item we need to discuss, your successor, maybe next meeting or list? 13:55 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow 13:56 < quaid> EvilBob: yeah, we do, let's go for the list perhaps 13:56 < quaid> we still need a meeting time where all can meet :) 13:56 < EvilBob> right 13:57 < couf> so anything left? 13:58 < EvilBob> OK ? 13:58 < quaid> nope 13:58 < quaid> 5 13:58 < quaid> 4 13:58 < quaid> 3 13:58 < quaid> 2 13:58 < quaid> last chance! 13:58 < quaid> 1 13:58 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Tue Jan 22 22:56:50 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:56:50 +1300 Subject: Get Involved Guide In-Reply-To: <1200901913.20813.264.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1200854364.5183.99.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1200901913.20813.264.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <479674B2.5010800@mkc.co.nz> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > Note: Subject changed from what must have been a typo. :) > > > On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 13:39 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> THE PUNCHLINE: For its size, the Docs Project has done great things >> thanks to the energy and generosity of its members. But in the post-F9 >> era, we need to get off the treadmill of simple user/admin >> documentation, which is duplicated many times over in both the free and >> for-pay spheres, and move to goals that are more contributor-oriented. > > > * We want to keep away from informal, end-user focused content. As Paul > says, end-user-focused content is very common and hard to compete > against. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try to produce useful end-user > content. It simply means that we have to have a reason to exist as a > project outside of just producing yet another set of Fedora how-to docs. > > * What we have that is unique is an inside view and understanding of how > to contribute to Fedora. Sharing this knowledge is potentially much > more valuable than sharing "How to do Foo." > It's funny and educational how things pan out from (or within) healthy projects with unintentionally accurate timing. I guess the expectations of what is DocsProject supposed to produce are bi-fold. People external to Fedora would mostly expect to find the guidelines for installing and using Fedora distribution. This type of documentation is finally shaping up as complete and will be in the form that is not too difficult to maintain across release cycles, starting with f9. We, who chose to do Fedora, on the other hand, are here with entirely different set of expectations. Thanks for reminding us about that and raising the bar. Vladimir > - Karsten > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Jan 23 01:47:01 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:47:01 +0900 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-01-22 IRC log In-Reply-To: <1201041338.10247.171.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1201041338.10247.171.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1201052821.6050.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Just to say I'm not on the fedora-list so can someone send a request for someone using KDE. My efforts were 'exhausted' after contacting the KDE-sig. That said the DuG only needs someone who uses KDE to email me fully the things wrong with it and I'll fix it up. I should fix up some stuff on the AG today/tonight. Cheers, Marc From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 03:03:43 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2008 22:03:43 -0500 Subject: meeting reminder 2100 UTC today In-Reply-To: <1201031454.10247.162.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1201031454.10247.162.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0801221903o4510066jc8a0e7f5ce2b8d7b@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 22, 2008 2:50 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > Reminder that we are having our first meeting of the new year and first > meeting of the new FDSCo. > > #fedora-meeting > 2100 UTC 22 Jan > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda FDSCo Members: Sorry that I missed the meeting... I am a few days from leaving for overseas and I was running around doing last-minure errands. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Jan 23 10:35:24 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:35:24 +0900 Subject: NTP Message-ID: <1201084524.5542.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/NTP Just added content I tried to match the layout and other details to the webserver guide which is edit ready. Would love some feedback. Cheers, Marc From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Jan 23 11:56:30 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 00:56:30 +1300 Subject: NTP In-Reply-To: <1201084524.5542.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201084524.5542.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <47972B6E.2060506@mkc.co.nz> Thanks Marc. I had a look - will add some config related stuff and break the config file into smaller sections, easier to understand the explanations. Must do that tomorrow though - too tired. Vladimir Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey all, > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/Servers/NTP > > Just added content I tried to match the layout and other details to the > webserver guide which is edit ready. Would love some feedback. > > Cheers, > > Marc > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Jan 23 13:04:12 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:04:12 +0900 Subject: DuG Message-ID: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, I've added a few more stuff to edit ready and I'm hoping someone will take a look at the remaining stuff for KDE. I'm also going to add KOffice I'm not to sure if it's the default install or not but I believe it is used enough to be added. Thoughts? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Jan 23 13:12:30 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:12:30 +0900 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1201093950.5542.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 22:04 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey all, > > I've added a few more stuff to edit ready and I'm hoping someone will > take a look at the remaining stuff for KDE. > > I'm also going to add KOffice I'm not to sure if it's the default > install or not but I believe it is used enough to be added. > > Thoughts? > > Cheers, > > Marc > Actually to be more precise the whole thing is nearly edit ready there are only 2 sections that are not edit ready yet I'm hoping in the next day or so they will be. When they are edit ready I'll go through the whole guide again looking for consistency. e.g. su -c 'yum install foo' and the {{{}}} and other things menu is ''menu >'' and programs are '''program''' At that stage I think we should be all set to get a final review then on to the fun stuff. When I'm done with that I'll jump across and help with the AG so we can knock that on the head reasonably quickly. Cheers, Marc From ncorrare at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 23 13:13:02 2008 From: ncorrare at fedoraproject.org (Nicolas Antonio Corrarello) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:13:02 -0200 Subject: Publishing translated DuG and Administration Guide in a magazine Message-ID: <47973D5E.5000501@fedoraproject.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi all, I'm trying to contact a local magazine editor and get them to distribute a one time edition of a Fedora Magazine with a F8 dvd (maybe 9 by the time) with the DuG and the Administration Guide. Might be a useful project to all countries. But I wanted to check before with you the legal aspects regarding that. Can we publish those documents without any legal paperwork done? - -- - - -- Nicolas A. Corrarello Fedora Ambassador Argentina c: +54 (911) 5182-2245 e: ncorrare at fedoraproject.org GPG Key: DFC893EE h: fedoraproject.org/wiki/NicolasCorrarello/ GPG Fingerprint: 5C93 42DA 98E1 4EEF B24B 7F8C E145 B2F9 DFC8 93EE Import my key: $ gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-key 0xDFC893EE -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHlz1e4UWy+d/Ik+4RAq1ZAJoCAWOGCyrY78eB83chvDHEgGFl9QCeOqlb ErOB7jmzLuY3l+v89wXuueI= =Dm7P -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Jan 23 13:15:43 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:15:43 +0900 Subject: Publishing translated DuG and Administration Guide in a magazine In-Reply-To: <47973D5E.5000501@fedoraproject.org> References: <47973D5E.5000501@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1201094143.5542.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 11:13 -0200, Nicolas Antonio Corrarello wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all, > I'm trying to contact a local magazine editor and get them to distribute > a one time edition of a Fedora Magazine with a F8 dvd (maybe 9 by the > time) with the DuG and the Administration Guide. Might be a useful > project to all countries. But I wanted to check before with you the > legal aspects regarding that. Can we publish those documents without any > legal paperwork done? > - -- > - - -- > Nicolas A. Corrarello > Fedora Ambassador Argentina c: +54 (911) 5182-2245 AFAIK yes since it is ODL. I'm not a lawyer but my assumption would be yes. Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 23 13:52:13 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:22:13 +0530 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4797468D.9080409@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey all, > > I've added a few more stuff to edit ready and I'm hoping someone will > take a look at the remaining stuff for KDE. > > I'm also going to add KOffice I'm not to sure if it's the default > install or not but I believe it is used enough to be added. It is the default for the KDE spin. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Jan 23 13:53:36 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:23:36 +0530 Subject: Publishing translated DuG and Administration Guide in a magazine In-Reply-To: <47973D5E.5000501@fedoraproject.org> References: <47973D5E.5000501@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <479746E0.5060205@fedoraproject.org> Nicolas Antonio Corrarello wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all, > I'm trying to contact a local magazine editor and get them to distribute > a one time edition of a Fedora Magazine with a F8 dvd (maybe 9 by the > time) with the DuG and the Administration Guide. Might be a useful > project to all countries. But I wanted to check before with you the > legal aspects regarding that. Can we publish those documents without any > legal paperwork done? Yes. You may. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Jan 23 13:45:50 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 22:45:50 +0900 Subject: Up-stuffed Message-ID: <1201095950.5542.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, Can someone remove the chapter I added. I originally thought the whole thing was getting done in cvs/docbook I was incorrect and it is done on the wiki. The file that I committed is irrelevant since the wiki has an updated version of it. Removal would be very muchly muchly appreciated :) Apologies for the inconvenience. Cheers, Marc From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 23 18:58:07 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 10:58:07 -0800 Subject: one summary to rule them all Message-ID: <1201114687.19482.96.camel@calliope.phig.org> We've struggled for the last several releases with multiple release summaries and overviews, keeping them in sync, and so forth. Last release, Paul and I swore we would find a way to provide a single, canonical source for *all* of these. Today I noticed yet another release summary in the wild that needs taming, inclusion, or something: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy#Enhancements A release summary is referred to there that can be added to by anyone. *sigh* Do we want to invite those people to instead add their enhancements to canonical summary? Then cross-link back in to that namespace? We can use clever [[Include()]] statements that draw only specific parts, so each 'mirror' of the canonical summary can show the most appropriate fragment. Anyone interested in doing this work? It involves: * Working out a single canonical location from amongst the several - Releases/#/ReleaseSummary - Docs/Beats/OverView - Press release needs (more lightweight) - etc. * Define a format for that page so that it can be fragmented (if needed) for different summaries * Write up a process for jamming all that together * Publicize/evangelize - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 23 19:00:12 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 11:00:12 -0800 Subject: Documentation Feature for Fedora 9 Message-ID: <1201114812.19482.100.camel@calliope.phig.org> Something I glanced on IRC this morning ... < mwiriadi> I think docs for F-9 will be a huge + for the distro ... set off a spark in my head. What do you all think of putting forward "more and better 100% community produced documentation" as a feature for Fedora 9? If you look at the definition of a feature[1], you see that it is "a significant change or enhancement to the version of Fedora currently under development that may or may not include new packages." Sounds like our current workload to me. :) One benefit is that our feature becomes part of the formal list of features that we promote for the release. How does this sound? We ready for more spotlight? Anyone interested/excited to write up our feature and remain the point of contact for it? - Karsten [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy#Definition_of_a_Feature -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed Jan 23 19:12:55 2008 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:12:55 +0000 Subject: one summary to rule them all In-Reply-To: <1201114687.19482.96.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1201114687.19482.96.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1201115575.3338.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey :) > Do we want to invite those people to instead add their enhancements to > canonical summary? Then cross-link back in to that namespace? > > We can use clever [[Include()]] statements that draw only specific > parts, so each 'mirror' of the canonical summary can show the most > appropriate fragment. Ah I think this is a super cool idea :) > > Anyone interested in doing this work? I might - next week at any rate. > It involves: > > * Working out a single canonical location from amongst the several > - Releases/#/ReleaseSummary > - Docs/Beats/OverView Ummm...what's the difference between these two anyway? Is it possible to put an end to one of them? > - Press release needs (more lightweight) This is perhaps going to need refinement seperate from the general "Release Summary" anyway - isn't it? > * Define a format for that page so that it can be fragmented (if needed) > for different summaries > > * Write up a process for jamming all that together > > * Publicize/evangelize All sounds good to me - I'd love to help out some how with this. Also, I don't know if anybody's noticed, but I thought the KDE people did a great job with their release stuff and thought we could learn from them a bit. Nice tour, press releases etc. Jon From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 23 20:11:11 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:11:11 -0800 Subject: Publishing translated DuG and Administration Guide in a magazine In-Reply-To: <47973D5E.5000501@fedoraproject.org> References: <47973D5E.5000501@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1201119071.19482.133.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 11:13 -0200, Nicolas Antonio Corrarello wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Hi all, > I'm trying to contact a local magazine editor and get them to distribute > a one time edition of a Fedora Magazine with a F8 dvd (maybe 9 by the > time) with the DuG and the Administration Guide. Might be a useful > project to all countries. But I wanted to check before with you the > legal aspects regarding that. Can we publish those documents without any > legal paperwork done? Your only challenge is timing. Those guides will be in beta by March, and we won't ask for them to be translated until they are final soon after that. In the meantime, they are in draft on the wiki. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 23 20:13:28 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 12:13:28 -0800 Subject: one summary to rule them all In-Reply-To: <1201115575.3338.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201114687.19482.96.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201115575.3338.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1201119208.19482.136.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 19:12 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > > Anyone interested in doing this work? > > I might - next week at any rate. That's fine, just trying to get ahead on this before we are behind. :) > > It involves: > > > > * Working out a single canonical location from amongst the several > > - Releases/#/ReleaseSummary > > - Docs/Beats/OverView > > Ummm...what's the difference between these two anyway? Is it possible to > put an end to one of them? The OverView is the one that appears in the release notes. But you have hit the proverbial nail; we want to make them the same thing, really, to reduce work and increase consistency. > > - Press release needs (more lightweight) > > This is perhaps going to need refinement seperate from the general > "Release Summary" anyway - isn't it? I was sort-of hoping that we might have an "overview" in the summary that is good enough as-is for a press release, press kit, etc. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From k5di at zianet.com Wed Jan 23 22:07:13 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:07:13 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-01-22 IRC log In-Reply-To: <1201052821.6050.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201041338.10247.171.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201052821.6050.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4797BA91.4060807@zianet.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > Just to say I'm not on the fedora-list so can someone send a request for > someone using KDE. My efforts were 'exhausted' after contacting the > KDE-sig. > > That said the DuG only needs someone who uses KDE to email me fully the > things wrong with it and I'll fix it up. I should fix up some stuff on > the AG today/tonight. > > Cheers, > > Marc > > Hi Mike I asked on the Fedora List and there are usually many messages complaining about KDE but not of late. And no-one has told me they will help. And some asked why you are not on the Fedora list? Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Wed Jan 23 22:18:33 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 07:18:33 +0900 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-01-22 IRC log In-Reply-To: <4797BA91.4060807@zianet.com> References: <1201041338.10247.171.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201052821.6050.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797BA91.4060807@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1201126713.25546.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 15:07 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > > > Just to say I'm not on the fedora-list so can someone send a request for > > someone using KDE. My efforts were 'exhausted' after contacting the > > KDE-sig. > > > > That said the DuG only needs someone who uses KDE to email me fully the > > things wrong with it and I'll fix it up. I should fix up some stuff on > > the AG today/tonight. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marc > > > > > Hi Mike I asked on the Fedora List and there are usually many > messages complaining about KDE but not of late. And no-one has told me > they will help. And some asked why you are not on the Fedora list? > > Karl > I used to be in the list but there was a significant amount of noise. Marc From k5di at zianet.com Wed Jan 23 22:43:28 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:43:28 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-01-22 IRC log In-Reply-To: <1201126713.25546.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201041338.10247.171.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201052821.6050.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797BA91.4060807@zianet.com> <1201126713.25546.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4797C310.3070003@zianet.com> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 15:07 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Just to say I'm not on the fedora-list so can someone send a request for >>> someone using KDE. My efforts were 'exhausted' after contacting the >>> KDE-sig. >>> >>> That said the DuG only needs someone who uses KDE to email me fully the >>> things wrong with it and I'll fix it up. I should fix up some stuff on >>> the AG today/tonight. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Marc >>> >>> >>> >> Hi Mike I asked on the Fedora List and there are usually many >> messages complaining about KDE but not of late. And no-one has told me >> they will help. And some asked why you are not on the Fedora list? >> >> Karl >> >> > > I used to be in the list but there was a significant amount of noise. > > > Marc > > There are a number of people that think they are Geeks and are easily offended. I have offended without knowing I was doing it :-) There might be a better person like a Geek on this list too that would be more likely to get an answer to a KDE question. My effort appears to have failed. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From jmbabich at gmail.com Wed Jan 23 23:49:28 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:49:28 -0500 Subject: Documentation Feature for Fedora 9 In-Reply-To: <1201114812.19482.100.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1201114812.19482.100.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0801231549s17a53a91h85ee866f288cd8f9@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 23, 2008 2:00 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > Something I glanced on IRC this morning ... > > < mwiriadi> I think docs for F-9 will be a huge + for the distro > > ... set off a spark in my head. > > What do you all think of putting forward "more and better 100% community > produced documentation" as a feature for Fedora 9? > Yes! > If you look at the definition of a feature[1], you see that it is "a > significant change or enhancement to the version of Fedora currently > under development that may or may not include new packages." > > Sounds like our current workload to me. :) > Agreed > One benefit is that our feature becomes part of the formal list of > features that we promote for the release. > > How does this sound? We ready for more spotlight? Absolutely > > Anyone interested/excited to write up our feature and remain the point > of contact for it? > I'll give it a go. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From k5di at zianet.com Thu Jan 24 02:01:55 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2008 19:01:55 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-01-22 IRC log In-Reply-To: <4797C310.3070003@zianet.com> References: <1201041338.10247.171.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201052821.6050.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797BA91.4060807@zianet.com> <1201126713.25546.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797C310.3070003@zianet.com> Message-ID: <4797F193.6030907@zianet.com> Karl Larsen wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 15:07 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: >> >>> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >>> A big snip Marc, because I think I found your man for KDE. He is a Prof and has classes of students that prefer KDE. His name is Tim Leger Graduate Research Assistant / Adjunct Professor Department of Mechanical & Materials Engineering Wright State University Dayton, OH And this was our last talk over email: Hi Karl, I'm not what you would call a power user of KDE, but I do prefer it over gnome. I do a lot of Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) code development as part of my research, so usually I just have two terminal windows open up side by side. I don't get into a lot of the KDE packages, I even use vim for editing source files (call me old fashion). However, I also setup a computer lab last summer for my university (to help with the Fortran 90/95 class I teach as an adjunct) and we're currently running Fedora 7 on 24 HP d7700 desktops with nVidia FX1500 video cards. The lab is also used for teaching Finite Element Analysis (via Ansys), CFD (via Fluent/Gambit), and several other classes. The reason we went with Fedora was because it's quickly becoming the only Linux distribution (beside Red Hat Enterprise) which the software vendors we use support (and Red Hat Enterprise doesn't support the latest hardware we get, like the d7700 desktops when we got them). As I have the most experience with Linux in the College, I've been taking care of the lab for the university. As for setup of the machines in the lab, I used the Fedora 7 x86_64 DVD and installed KDE afterwards via yum. This way I've got gnome to fall back on when KDE starts acting up and to help debug problems when they arise. We're using the nVidia drivers from livna and after installation I used one of the "tips and tricks" websites to get all the extra goodies installed like the mp3 codes and such. I have noticed that at least in my class, the students prefer KDE over gnome for the most part because it reminds them of Windows XP. My big complaint of late with KDE is that the Fedora update packages have been breaking things which were working just fine before. I won't go into all the issues as other have already posted them here, but suffice it to say everything with KDE and Fedora 7 was working fine for us before the updates in November. Anyway, I'll talk with some of the students I know in the College who use KDE a lot more than I do and see if they're willing to e-mail you with their experiences. Basically, I just try to keep things working in the lab and on my two computers at home. Let me know if you have any specific questions. Regards, Tim Leger His email address is: tleger.fedora at gmail.com and I said you will call him. I wish you the best Marc Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Jan 24 04:38:43 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 13:38:43 +0900 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-01-22 IRC log In-Reply-To: <4797F193.6030907@zianet.com> References: <1201041338.10247.171.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201052821.6050.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797BA91.4060807@zianet.com> <1201126713.25546.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797C310.3070003@zianet.com> <4797F193.6030907@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1201149523.6300.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 19:01 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > Karl Larsen wrote: > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 15:07 -0700, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> > >>> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >>> > A big snip Marc, because I think I found your man for KDE. > He is a Prof and has classes of students that prefer KDE. > > His name is > > Tim Leger > Graduate Research Assistant / Adjunct Professor > Department of Mechanical & Materials Engineering > Wright State University > Dayton, OH > > And this was our last talk over email: > > Hi Karl, > > I'm not what you would call a power user of KDE, but I do prefer it over > gnome. I do a lot of Computational Fluid Dynamics (CFD) code development as > part of my research, so usually I just have two terminal windows open up > side by side. I don't get into a lot of the KDE packages, I even use vim for > editing source files (call me old fashion). However, I also setup a > computer lab last summer for my university (to help with the Fortran 90/95 > class I teach as an adjunct) and we're currently running Fedora 7 on 24 HP > d7700 desktops with nVidia FX1500 video cards. The lab is also used for > teaching Finite Element Analysis (via Ansys), CFD (via Fluent/Gambit), and > several other classes. The reason we went with Fedora was because it's > quickly becoming the only Linux distribution (beside Red Hat Enterprise) > which the software vendors we use support (and Red Hat Enterprise doesn't > support the latest hardware we get, like the d7700 desktops when we got > them). As I have the most experience with Linux in the College, I've been > taking care of the lab for the university. > As for setup of the machines in the lab, I used the Fedora 7 x86_64 DVD > and installed KDE afterwards via yum. This way I've got gnome to fall back > on when KDE starts acting up and to help debug problems when they arise. > We're using the nVidia drivers from livna and after installation I used one > of the "tips and tricks" websites to get all the extra goodies installed > like the mp3 codes and such. > I have noticed that at least in my class, the students prefer KDE over > gnome for the most part because it reminds them of Windows XP. My big > complaint of late with KDE is that the Fedora update packages have been > breaking things which were working just fine before. I won't go into all > the issues as other have already posted them here, but suffice it to say > everything with KDE and Fedora 7 was working fine for us before the updates > in November. > Anyway, I'll talk with some of the students I know in the College who use > KDE a lot more than I do and see if they're willing to e-mail you with their > experiences. Basically, I just try to keep things working in the lab and on > my two computers at home. Let me know if you have any specific questions. > > Regards, Tim Leger > > His email address is: tleger.fedora at gmail.com and I said you will call him. I wish you the best Marc > > Karl > Thanks I just emailed him. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Jan 24 11:17:36 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 20:17:36 +0900 Subject: DuG Office Message-ID: <1201173457.6300.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, Massive changes to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Office Have a look and tell me what you think. I should add due to failure of connecting with this mornings ISP issues I will add more links. Cheers, Marc From dan at new2linux.com Thu Jan 24 14:30:39 2008 From: dan at new2linux.com (Dan O'Brien) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:30:39 -0500 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <4797468D.9080409@fedoraproject.org> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797468D.9080409@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4798A10F.4080005@new2linux.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: >> Hey all, >> >> I've added a few more stuff to edit ready and I'm hoping someone will >> take a look at the remaining stuff for KDE. >> I'm also going to add KOffice I'm not to sure if it's the default >> install or not but I believe it is used enough to be added. > > It is the default for the KDE spin. > > Rahul Marc, Things have finally calmed down at home and I'll be able to pick up on the DUG again. AFAICT the only thing not ready for edit is the Multimedia section? If you are going to add a KOffice section, let me know if you need help. As I've said, I'm not really a KDE user but I'm sure between the 2 of us we can knock that out pretty quick. Other than that, if no one else has any suggestions for other things to be incorporated into the DUG I guess it's pretty much wrapped up. Regards, Dan O'Brien From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jan 24 14:41:12 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 09:41:12 -0500 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <4798A10F.4080005@new2linux.com> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797468D.9080409@fedoraproject.org> <4798A10F.4080005@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1201185672.29540.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 09:30 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> Hey all, > >> > >> I've added a few more stuff to edit ready and I'm hoping someone will > >> take a look at the remaining stuff for KDE. > >> I'm also going to add KOffice I'm not to sure if it's the default > >> install or not but I believe it is used enough to be added. > > > > It is the default for the KDE spin. > > > > Rahul > Marc, > Things have finally calmed down at home and I'll be able to pick up on > the DUG again. AFAICT the only thing not ready for edit is the > Multimedia section? If you are going to add a KOffice section, let me > know if you need help. As I've said, I'm not really a KDE user but I'm > sure between the 2 of us we can knock that out pretty quick. > > Other than that, if no one else has any suggestions for other things to > be incorporated into the DUG I guess it's pretty much wrapped up. More importantly -- congratulations on your new little one Dan! Hope everyone in your household is doing well. Just think of all the extra time you'll have without all that pesky sleep getting in the way. :-) -- Paul W. ("for 'Whoa I'm tired") Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jan 24 15:43:41 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 10:43:41 -0500 Subject: DuG Office In-Reply-To: <1201173457.6300.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201173457.6300.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20080124154341.GA14194@localhost.localdomain> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Marc, Just took a look at the page and it looks good. I like a page that shows all the options available in a concise way. Eric "Sparks" On Thu, Jan 24, 2008 at 08:17:36PM +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Hey all, > > Massive changes to > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Office > > Have a look and tell me what you think. I should add due to failure of > connecting with this mornings ISP issues I will add more links. > > Cheers, > > Marc > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHmLItL5V8yddJCO0RAhlSAJ9cgBsTjeov/Qm6vzY9ZWVISZToTgCaAwiK 46wz68wZSgPR5Aqz8ru4U/0= =CqJN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Thu Jan 24 19:15:19 2008 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2008 19:15:19 +0000 Subject: one summary to rule them all In-Reply-To: <1201119208.19482.136.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1201114687.19482.96.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201115575.3338.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1201119208.19482.136.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1201202119.5235.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey, > > > * Working out a single canonical location from amongst the several > > > - Releases/#/ReleaseSummary > > > - Docs/Beats/OverView > > > > Ummm...what's the difference between these two anyway? Is it possible to > > put an end to one of them? > > The OverView is the one that appears in the release notes. > > But you have hit the proverbial nail; we want to make them the same > thing, really, to reduce work and increase consistency. OK, I've just taken a quick look at this and it seems like the content in each of these is actually quite different :S While they're covering the same material, the ReleaseSummary has got more images etc, along with longer descriptions and more links. If you were wanting to use one source for the Release Notes as well, would the images and extra links need stripping out? I personally feel that it would be better going under the Release/#/ReleaseSummary as it seems a slightly more logical place to look for me - but I think where ever it goes is just going to be an arbitrary decision? > > > > - Press release needs (more lightweight) > > > > This is perhaps going to need refinement seperate from the general > > "Release Summary" anyway - isn't it? > > I was sort-of hoping that we might have an "overview" in the summary > that is good enough as-is for a press release, press kit, etc. I just took a look at some press releases around the net and they all definitely take a different approach to the ReleaseSummary or the OverView - maybe this isn't necessarily a bad thing... Personally, with respect to making an all purpose document that serves both the press and the community (be it existing Fedora users or interestesed open source/free software users), I feel that the ReleaseSummary is perhaps heading in a better direction as it seems more "engaging" to me. I may have missed the boat entirely here! Jon From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Jan 24 23:11:23 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:11:23 +0900 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <4798A10F.4080005@new2linux.com> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797468D.9080409@fedoraproject.org> <4798A10F.4080005@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1201216283.6300.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 09:30 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> Hey all, > >> > >> I've added a few more stuff to edit ready and I'm hoping someone will > >> take a look at the remaining stuff for KDE. > >> I'm also going to add KOffice I'm not to sure if it's the default > >> install or not but I believe it is used enough to be added. > > > > It is the default for the KDE spin. > > > > Rahul > Marc, > Things have finally calmed down at home and I'll be able to pick up on > the DUG again. AFAICT the only thing not ready for edit is the > Multimedia section? If you are going to add a KOffice section, let me > know if you need help. As I've said, I'm not really a KDE user but I'm > sure between the 2 of us we can knock that out pretty quick. > > Other than that, if no one else has any suggestions for other things to > be incorporated into the DUG I guess it's pretty much wrapped up. > > Regards, > Dan O'Brien > Congratulations!!!! :-) Also the last bit is the multimedia I need to find out what the default media player in KDE is. I also posted an email to a Lecturer who uses Fedora KDE and so do his students. I invited him and his students to have a look and comment on KDE aspects of the guide. I'm hoping they don't find errors and or omissions but if they do it would be great knowing about them now and fixing them. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Jan 24 23:41:37 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:41:37 +0900 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <1201185672.29540.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797468D.9080409@fedoraproject.org> <4798A10F.4080005@new2linux.com> <1201185672.29540.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1201218097.6300.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 09:41 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 09:30 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > >> Hey all, > > >> > > >> I've added a few more stuff to edit ready and I'm hoping someone will > > >> take a look at the remaining stuff for KDE. > > >> I'm also going to add KOffice I'm not to sure if it's the default > > >> install or not but I believe it is used enough to be added. > > > > > > It is the default for the KDE spin. > > > > > > Rahul > > Marc, > > Things have finally calmed down at home and I'll be able to pick up on > > the DUG again. AFAICT the only thing not ready for edit is the > > Multimedia section? If you are going to add a KOffice section, let me > > know if you need help. As I've said, I'm not really a KDE user but I'm > > sure between the 2 of us we can knock that out pretty quick. > > > > Other than that, if no one else has any suggestions for other things to > > be incorporated into the DUG I guess it's pretty much wrapped up. > > More importantly -- congratulations on your new little one Dan! Hope > everyone in your household is doing well. Just think of all the extra > time you'll have without all that pesky sleep getting in the way. :-) I just found Kmail :-( which means in the email section we need to add a section on Kmail. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Jan 25 00:09:55 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 09:09:55 +0900 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <1201218097.6300.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797468D.9080409@fedoraproject.org> <4798A10F.4080005@new2linux.com> <1201185672.29540.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1201218097.6300.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1201219795.6300.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 08:41 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 09:41 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 09:30 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > >> Hey all, > > > >> > > > >> I've added a few more stuff to edit ready and I'm hoping someone will > > > >> take a look at the remaining stuff for KDE. > > > >> I'm also going to add KOffice I'm not to sure if it's the default > > > >> install or not but I believe it is used enough to be added. > > > > > > > > It is the default for the KDE spin. > > > > > > > > Rahul > > > Marc, > > > Things have finally calmed down at home and I'll be able to pick up on > > > the DUG again. AFAICT the only thing not ready for edit is the > > > Multimedia section? If you are going to add a KOffice section, let me > > > know if you need help. As I've said, I'm not really a KDE user but I'm > > > sure between the 2 of us we can knock that out pretty quick. > > > > > > Other than that, if no one else has any suggestions for other things to > > > be incorporated into the DUG I guess it's pretty much wrapped up. > > > > More importantly -- congratulations on your new little one Dan! Hope > > everyone in your household is doing well. Just think of all the extra > > time you'll have without all that pesky sleep getting in the way. :-) > > I just found Kmail :-( which means in the email section we need to add a > section on Kmail. > > Cheers, > > Marc > Konqueror as well. From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Jan 25 04:48:08 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 13:48:08 +0900 Subject: DuG Multimedia Message-ID: <1201236488.20734.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, Same as the Office one massive changes additional icons etc included. I felt there was a lot of text with minimal pictures so I added some pictures that do not require translation. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Multimedia Thoughts? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Jan 25 06:36:48 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:36:48 +0900 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <1201219795.6300.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797468D.9080409@fedoraproject.org> <4798A10F.4080005@new2linux.com> <1201185672.29540.53.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1201218097.6300.22.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1201219795.6300.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1201243008.20734.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 09:09 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 08:41 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 09:41 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 09:30 -0500, Dan O'Brien wrote: > > > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > >> Hey all, > > > > >> > > > > >> I've added a few more stuff to edit ready and I'm hoping someone will > > > > >> take a look at the remaining stuff for KDE. > > > > >> I'm also going to add KOffice I'm not to sure if it's the default > > > > >> install or not but I believe it is used enough to be added. > > > > > > > > > > It is the default for the KDE spin. > > > > > > > > > > Rahul > > > > Marc, > > > > Things have finally calmed down at home and I'll be able to pick up on > > > > the DUG again. AFAICT the only thing not ready for edit is the > > > > Multimedia section? If you are going to add a KOffice section, let me > > > > know if you need help. As I've said, I'm not really a KDE user but I'm > > > > sure between the 2 of us we can knock that out pretty quick. > > > > > > > > Other than that, if no one else has any suggestions for other things to > > > > be incorporated into the DUG I guess it's pretty much wrapped up. > > > > > > More importantly -- congratulations on your new little one Dan! Hope > > > everyone in your household is doing well. Just think of all the extra > > > time you'll have without all that pesky sleep getting in the way. :-) > > > > I just found Kmail :-( which means in the email section we need to add a > > section on Kmail. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marc > > > Konqueror as well. > I've completed the wireless section since I have received the email. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/ConfiguringInternet Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Jan 25 07:33:18 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:33:18 +0900 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <4798A10F.4080005@new2linux.com> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4797468D.9080409@fedoraproject.org> <4798A10F.4080005@new2linux.com> Message-ID: <1201246398.5165.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Just updated http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide/Communications Have a looksie added Kopete, Kmail and some content to evolution. Cheers, Marc P.S. (hopefully) last section is Konqueror From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 25 10:07:41 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 15:37:41 +0530 Subject: one summary to rule them all In-Reply-To: <1201202119.5235.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201114687.19482.96.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201115575.3338.41.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1201119208.19482.136.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1201202119.5235.13.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4799B4ED.5030705@fedoraproject.org> Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hey, > >>>> * Working out a single canonical location from amongst the several >>>> - Releases/#/ReleaseSummary >>>> - Docs/Beats/OverView >>> Ummm...what's the difference between these two anyway? Is it possible to >>> put an end to one of them? >> The OverView is the one that appears in the release notes. >> >> But you have hit the proverbial nail; we want to make them the same >> thing, really, to reduce work and increase consistency. > > OK, I've just taken a quick look at this and it seems like the content > in each of these is actually quite different :S While they're covering > the same material, the ReleaseSummary has got more images etc, along > with longer descriptions and more links. If you were wanting to use one > source for the Release Notes as well, would the images and extra links > need stripping out? As the person behind both of these documents, let me note that release notes overview was meant to be more technical while the release summary was born out of an earlier effort to do press releases via the community. Also due to general lack of contributions (even though Jonathan Roberts and others did help for Fedora 8), the time taken to write a proper release summary was almost an entire night last time and that too way later than the release notes string freeze. We need to decide whether the overview in release notes can be the kind of content that release summary currently is. If that is preferred, let me know and I will do that from Fedora 9 onwards. I wouldn't mind more people helping out either. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 25 10:33:49 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:03:49 +0530 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <4799BB0D.60605@fedoraproject.org> Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > List, > > few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things: > > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME) > 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what > KDE release goes in F9 KDE 4 is the target http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureKDE4 Rahul From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Jan 25 10:49:19 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 19:49:19 +0900 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <4799BB0D.60605@fedoraproject.org> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <4799BB0D.60605@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1201258159.1560.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 16:03 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > List, > > > > few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things: > > > > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME) > > 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what > > KDE release goes in F9 > > KDE 4 is the target > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureKDE4 > > Rahul > Yep I'm assuming it's not going to be significantly different. I'm waiting for the beta release then we can alter the DuG to suit. The AG shouldn't be an issue. Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jan 25 11:04:20 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:34:20 +0530 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <1201258159.1560.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <4799BB0D.60605@fedoraproject.org> <1201258159.1560.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4799C234.5080601@fedoraproject.org> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Yep I'm assuming it's not going to be significantly different. I'm > waiting for the beta release then we can alter the DuG to suit. The AG > shouldn't be an issue. It is significantly different though I don't expect too much documentation changes. You probably can hang out in #fedora-kde for any questions and feedback. Rahul From vnk at mkc.co.nz Fri Jan 25 11:26:24 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 00:26:24 +1300 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <4799C234.5080601@fedoraproject.org> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <4799BB0D.60605@fedoraproject.org> <1201258159.1560.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4799C234.5080601@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4799C760.1060503@mkc.co.nz> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > >> Yep I'm assuming it's not going to be significantly different. I'm >> waiting for the beta release then we can alter the DuG to suit. The AG >> shouldn't be an issue. > > It is significantly different though I don't expect too much > documentation changes. You probably can hang out in #fedora-kde for any > questions and feedback. > Yes it is. Marc, you may need to install rawhide - the interface is completely different from 3.X. And it's not only because of different screenshots - some important KDE apps are new, too. Vladimir > Rahul > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Jan 25 13:01:11 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:01:11 +0900 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <4799C760.1060503@mkc.co.nz> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <4799BB0D.60605@fedoraproject.org> <1201258159.1560.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4799C234.5080601@fedoraproject.org> <4799C760.1060503@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1201266071.1560.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 00:26 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > >> Yep I'm assuming it's not going to be significantly different. I'm > >> waiting for the beta release then we can alter the DuG to suit. The AG > >> shouldn't be an issue. > > > > It is significantly different though I don't expect too much > > documentation changes. You probably can hang out in #fedora-kde for any > > questions and feedback. > > > Yes it is. Marc, you may need to install rawhide - the interface is > completely different from 3.X. And it's not only because of different > screenshots - some important KDE apps are new, too. > > Vladimir > > Rahul > > I'm not touching rawhide with the amount of KDE deps that are broken at the moment. I'll jump in when it's actually passed alpha. Cheers, Marc From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Jan 25 13:43:43 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 08:43:43 -0500 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <4799BB0D.60605@fedoraproject.org> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <4799BB0D.60605@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20080125134343.GA23901@localhost.localdomain> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Do we know the deltas (differences) between KDE 3 and KDE 4, yet, and how the individual pieces of software will be changed? Eric On Fri, Jan 25, 2008 at 04:03:49PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >> List, >> >> few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things: >> >> 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME) >> 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what >> KDE release goes in F9 > > KDE 4 is the target > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureKDE4 > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHmeePL5V8yddJCO0RAiRgAJ48XBI/L8tL7fuEDdk6kmwUc8JeRACffheS HFl+qCUjaapoLr8HTz8jQpc= =y2i3 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Jan 25 14:59:33 2008 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 16:59:33 +0200 Subject: Most Docs modules added in Transifex Message-ID: <6d4237680801250659x2f5314bcma3190e2edf33d44c@mail.gmail.com> A quick heads-up to note that most of the Docs modules have now been added to Transifex: https://translate.fedoraproject.org/submit/module/ As soon as translators will start using Tx to submit files, we'll start to see commits similar to the following: > From: "Transifex System User" (transif) > Author: transif > Log Message: > 2008-01-25 Dimitris Glezos (via glezos fedoraproject org) > > * po/el.po: Dummy update in Greek translation -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jan 25 19:08:02 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:08:02 -0500 Subject: Most Docs modules added in Transifex In-Reply-To: <6d4237680801250659x2f5314bcma3190e2edf33d44c@mail.gmail.com> References: <6d4237680801250659x2f5314bcma3190e2edf33d44c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1201288082.3949.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 16:59 +0200, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > A quick heads-up to note that most of the Docs modules have now been > added to Transifex: > > https://translate.fedoraproject.org/submit/module/ > > As soon as translators will start using Tx to submit files, we'll > start to see commits similar to the following: > > > From: "Transifex System User" (transif) > > Author: transif > > Log Message: > > 2008-01-25 Dimitris Glezos (via glezos fedoraproject org) > > > > * po/el.po: Dummy update in Greek translation This is great news Dimitris! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jan 25 19:38:07 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:38:07 -0800 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1201289887.19482.446.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 11:03 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME) ... > [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing Do you have a target for receiving these edits? Let's put together a draft (strawman) schedule for these guides; John will put it up against the rest of our schedule[1]. I can start on both of those this weekend; having a target schedule helps me prioritize and split the work with other editors. Anyone who wants to learn more about how we like to edit should watch those pages. In the wiki, go to Preferences, at the bottom in the Watched pages use a regular expression to cover the whole namespace: Docs/Drafts/AGBeta.* ... For formatting fixes, we'll look for ways to slam across them with the powers of Emacs/Vi and the wonders of regexp search and replace. :) I've seen a few that I've let go in the interest of not breaking the awesome flow that has been happening. Easy enough to re-habit for the next round. :) Once that is done, the conversion to XML will also have a bunch of edits to the wiki-produced XML. Watching those commits (on fedora-docs-commits) is another good learning experience. Committing editors are encouraged to be verbose in the comments since we have so many new and interested eyes around us. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jan 25 19:39:13 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:39:13 -0800 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <20080120004613.GA26110@localhost.localdomain> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <1200789006.26735.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20080120004613.GA26110@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1201289953.19482.449.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, 2008-01-19 at 19:46 -0500, Eric H Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Maybe on the Docs Project wiki page? We could make DocsProject/Meetings/, designed after DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings? Could even [[Include()]] the latter for completeness sake. :) - Karsten > Eric > > > > > On Sun, Jan 20, 2008 at 09:30:06AM +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > > On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 11:03 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > List, > > > > > > few of us had a meeting over on irc and have agreed on a few things: > > > > > > 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME) > > > 2] DUG (KDE) almost as good - may need some attention depending on what > > > KDE release goes in F9 > > > 3] New placeholder for AG conversion is > > > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta > > > > > > However, listed pages are still edited in their 'old' location: > > > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide/$section > > > > > > As agreed, I have cleaned the AG of stuff that will not be included. > > > Pages that had content are now in Docs/Drafts and the references to > > > those that were empty are removed. > > > > > > The core group of 3-4 people have committed to early March completion of > > > the AG, more hands on deck are more than welcome. > > > > > > [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing > > > > > > Vladimir > > > > Does someone want to post the irc log somewhere. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marc > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFHkpnVL5V8yddJCO0RAvl0AKCFMNU00DCDmK42L/Lc4QwYWJtj/ACdE8IR > ydEg9SfCqVCeRM5tMhsyi0w= > =2L/S > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Fri Jan 25 21:19:35 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 10:19:35 +1300 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <1201289887.19482.446.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <1201289887.19482.446.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <479A5267.1070102@mkc.co.nz> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > On Sun, 2008-01-20 at 11:03 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > >> 1] DUG looks good[1] (GNOME) > ... > >> [1] - ready for wordsmithing / format fixing > > Do you have a target for receiving these edits? > Target was set to beginning of March minus 10 days made up of 5 days edit + 5 days XML conversion. The assumption here is that the content is accurate enough and that it won't need major changes. However, lot of missing/bad content went into both DUG and AG last week, so I think the target above was conservative. This should give us at least one more week for even major fixes, if required. > Let's put together a draft (strawman) schedule for these guides; John > will put it up against the rest of our schedule[1]. > As it looks, the schedule is now probably needed for editors only: 1] Marc [DUG] and I [AG] are doing pretty much all of the writing ATM and have a pretty good handle of what's left 2] there is enough '''edit-ready''' content to start the editing effort now > I can start on both of those this weekend; having a target schedule > helps me prioritize and split the work with other editors. > > Anyone who wants to learn more about how we like to edit should watch > those pages. In the wiki, go to Preferences, at the bottom in the > Watched pages use a regular expression to cover the whole namespace: > > Docs/Drafts/AGBeta.* > ... > Would this track macroed inludes, too? Most sections are actually in Docs/Drafts/AG. > For formatting fixes, we'll look for ways to slam across them with the > powers of Emacs/Vi and the wonders of regexp search and replace. :) > I've seen a few that I've let go in the interest of not breaking the > awesome flow that has been happening. Easy enough to re-habit for the > next round. :) > The last two sections I've signed off (NTP server and IPtables in the AG) are, I think, better formatting wise than those done earlier. I'd be interested to find out whether this cuts the time spent on edit part and if so, how much. *betterer than federer*, Vladimir > Once that is done, the conversion to XML will also have a bunch of edits > to the wiki-produced XML. Watching those commits (on > fedora-docs-commits) is another good learning experience. Committing > editors are encouraged to be verbose in the comments since we have so > many new and interested eyes around us. > > - Karsten > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From couf at skynet.be Fri Jan 25 21:31:06 2008 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 22:31:06 +0100 Subject: AG - DUG Tentative Schedule Message-ID: <1201296666.19870.9.camel@versuz> Hi all, Just a basic schedule proposal to set some dates for both AG and DUG If this is good, we can add it to our master schedule [1] * now - 15 Feb: writing, shifting content, ... * 15 Feb: Basic deadline for guide writing, content should be edit-ready, and in the correct order * 16 - 22 Feb: Editorial pass on the wiki (to keep edits in wikik-rawhide too) * ?? 23: Wiki2XML tutorial day (might be a good idea) * 23 - 29 Feb: Wiki-to-DocBook conversion * 1 March: Launch of both guides (English version) + send off POT-files to L10N Comments? Bart [1] http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-9/f-9-docs-details.html -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi Fri Jan 25 21:32:21 2008 From: vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi (Ville-Pekka Vainio) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 23:32:21 +0200 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200801252332.21702.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Hi, After a quick talk on IRC with Marc, I skimmed through the DUG draft as a KDE user. I didn't really find any KDE-specific errors, so nice work there :) I did find one thing though. In ConfiguringInternet it says "Network Manager is not enabled by default in Fedora", but I believe NM is enabled by default in the Desktop spins, but not if you do the DVD install. -- Ville-Pekka Vainio From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Fri Jan 25 22:41:45 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 07:41:45 +0900 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <200801252332.21702.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200801252332.21702.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <1201300905.1560.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 23:32 +0200, Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote: > Hi, > > After a quick talk on IRC with Marc, I skimmed through the DUG draft as a KDE > user. I didn't really find any KDE-specific errors, so nice work there :) > > I did find one thing though. In ConfiguringInternet it says "Network Manager > is not enabled by default in Fedora", but I believe NM is enabled by default > in the Desktop spins, but not if you do the DVD install. > > -- > Ville-Pekka Vainio > Hi Ville, Thanks for doing that I will add that into the guide. Appreciate the feedback was there anything else that needed altering? Cheers, Marc From vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi Fri Jan 25 23:00:47 2008 From: vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi (Ville-Pekka Vainio) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 01:00:47 +0200 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <1201300905.1560.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200801252332.21702.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> <1201300905.1560.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200801260100.47777.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > Appreciate the > feedback was there anything else that needed altering? One other thing I'd like to mention. KDE4 has Dolphin as the default file manager . I know the guide is not complete yet, but maybe Dolphin should also be mentioned (if someone of you writers has the time to test KDE4 when F9 hits beta). I don't have an extra machine to run Rawhide on and I haven't gotten myself to try any of these virtualisation things, even though they sound quite usable for testing... -- Ville-Pekka Vainio From k5di at zianet.com Sat Jan 26 01:36:59 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:36:59 -0700 Subject: GRUB Message-ID: <479A8EBB.7090601@zianet.com> I am looking for a user paper that explains how grub works and how you set it up with the Rescue DVD and such. I see nothing and guys on the Fedora List know nothing. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From kwade at redhat.com Sat Jan 26 02:29:12 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:29:12 -0800 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <479A5267.1070102@mkc.co.nz> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <1201289887.19482.446.camel@calliope.phig.org> <479A5267.1070102@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <1201314552.19482.502.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 10:19 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > > Docs/Drafts/AGBeta.* > > ... > > > Would this track macroed inludes, too? Most sections are actually in > Docs/Drafts/AG. No, it won't follow macro includes, if I understand Moin Moin correctly. I thought AGBeta was a complete copy/fork for working over in advance of the conversion to XML? If not, what does it do? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Jan 26 03:21:34 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (=?utf-8?B?RXJpYyBDaHJpc3RlbnNlbg==?=) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 03:21:34 +0000 Subject: GRUB In-Reply-To: <479A8EBB.7090601@zianet.com> References: <479A8EBB.7090601@zianet.com> Message-ID: <1102991742-1201317681-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-462295378-@bxe014.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Karl, I have some notes from my RHCT days. I'll see if I can dig them up tomorrow. Eric -----Original Message----- From: Karl Larsen Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:36:59 To:For participants of the Documentation Project Subject: GRUB I am looking for a user paper that explains how grub works and how you set it up with the Rescue DVD and such. I see nothing and guys on the Fedora List know nothing. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Jan 26 04:40:58 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 17:40:58 +1300 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <1201314552.19482.502.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <1201289887.19482.446.camel@calliope.phig.org> <479A5267.1070102@mkc.co.nz> <1201314552.19482.502.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <479AB9DA.8010402@mkc.co.nz> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 10:19 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >>> Docs/Drafts/AGBeta.* >>> ... >>> >> Would this track macroed inludes, too? Most sections are actually in >> Docs/Drafts/AG. > > No, it won't follow macro includes, if I understand Moin Moin correctly. > > I thought AGBeta was a complete copy/fork for working over in advance of > the conversion to XML? I was going to do that, when someone suggested include as a time-saver. It hadn't occur to me until your email that this might be an issue. If not, what does it do? Apparently, not much. Shouldn't be too difficult to put it to use, though. Do we want to move the whole thing or to keep Docs/Drafts/AG in place? Vladimir > > - Karsten > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From vnk at mkc.co.nz Sat Jan 26 06:19:14 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 19:19:14 +1300 Subject: DUG + AdminGuide release, update In-Reply-To: <479AB9DA.8010402@mkc.co.nz> References: <479273AF.9030203@mkc.co.nz> <1201289887.19482.446.camel@calliope.phig.org> <479A5267.1070102@mkc.co.nz> <1201314552.19482.502.camel@calliope.phig.org> <479AB9DA.8010402@mkc.co.nz> Message-ID: <479AD0E2.1040500@mkc.co.nz> Administration Guide, what would soon become release version, is now copied (does not contain include macro in individual sections) to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta This is where remaining sections are written and will be edited. The old, Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide is still there. We need to decide what to do with it going forward. Cheers, Vladimir Vladimir Kosovac wrote: > > > Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: >> On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 10:19 +1300, Vladimir Kosovac wrote: >>>> Docs/Drafts/AGBeta.* >>>> ... >>>> >>> Would this track macroed inludes, too? Most sections are actually in >>> Docs/Drafts/AG. >> >> No, it won't follow macro includes, if I understand Moin Moin correctly. >> >> I thought AGBeta was a complete copy/fork for working over in advance of >> the conversion to XML? > > I was going to do that, when someone suggested include as a time-saver. > It hadn't occur to me until your email that this might be an issue. > > If not, what does it do? > > Apparently, not much. Shouldn't be too difficult to put it to use, > though. Do we want to move the whole thing or to keep Docs/Drafts/AG in > place? > > Vladimir >> >> - Karsten >> > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sat Jan 26 12:00:10 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 22:00:10 +1000 Subject: GRUB In-Reply-To: <479A8EBB.7090601@zianet.com> References: <479A8EBB.7090601@zianet.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0801260400k35b7891ayf2a61b7f11854fcd@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 26, 2008 11:36 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > I am looking for a user paper that explains how grub works and how > you set it up with the Rescue DVD and such. I see nothing and guys on > the Fedora List know nothing. > > Karl Hi Karl, If you run the "info grub" command you will find lots of useful information about how to configure grub. I have not read this thread properly, but there was a post to the ubuntu forums about grub, which might help: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=17783 Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From k5di at zianet.com Sat Jan 26 12:54:06 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 05:54:06 -0700 Subject: GRUB In-Reply-To: <1102991742-1201317681-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-462295378-@bxe014.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <479A8EBB.7090601@zianet.com> <1102991742-1201317681-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-462295378-@bxe014.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <479B2D6E.6090306@zianet.com> Eric Christensen wrote: > Karl, > I have some notes from my RHCT days. I'll see if I can dig them up tomorrow. > > Eric > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Karl Larsen > > Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2008 18:36:59 > To:For participants of the Documentation Project > Subject: GRUB > > > I am looking for a user paper that explains how grub works and how > you set it up with the Rescue DVD and such. I see nothing and guys on > the Fedora List know nothing. > > Karl > > Thank you Eric. I have a feeling that what I envision is not available. But need to look around as much as possible. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From k5di at zianet.com Sat Jan 26 13:40:10 2008 From: k5di at zianet.com (Karl Larsen) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 06:40:10 -0700 Subject: GRUB In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0801260400k35b7891ayf2a61b7f11854fcd@mail.gmail.com> References: <479A8EBB.7090601@zianet.com> <95f1114b0801260400k35b7891ayf2a61b7f11854fcd@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <479B383A.2010406@zianet.com> Murray McAllister wrote: > On Jan 26, 2008 11:36 AM, Karl Larsen wrote: > >> I am looking for a user paper that explains how grub works and how >> you set it up with the Rescue DVD and such. I see nothing and guys on >> the Fedora List know nothing. >> >> Karl >> > > Hi Karl, > > If you run the "info grub" command you will find lots of useful > information about how to configure grub. > > I have not read this thread properly, but there was a post to the > ubuntu forums about grub, which might help: > http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=17783 > > Cheers, > > Murray. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > > I was directed to this URL and it is sure what in general I am looking for. http://www.dedoimedo.com/computers/grub.html It is pointed at SUSE but it can be used on Fedora as well. And much better than info grub. Karl -- Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI Linux User #450462 http://counter.li.org. PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7 From herlo1 at gmail.com Sat Jan 26 16:52:01 2008 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:52:01 -0700 Subject: AG - DUG Tentative Schedule In-Reply-To: <1201296666.19870.9.camel@versuz> References: <1201296666.19870.9.camel@versuz> Message-ID: > * ?? 23: Wiki2XML tutorial day (might be a good idea) I'd definitely like some formal training on this...great idea Clint From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun Jan 27 01:53:10 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 10:53:10 +0900 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <200801260100.47777.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200801252332.21702.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> <1201300905.1560.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200801260100.47777.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> Message-ID: <1201398790.16731.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2008-01-26 at 01:00 +0200, Ville-Pekka Vainio wrote: > Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > Appreciate the > > feedback was there anything else that needed altering? > > One other thing I'd like to mention. KDE4 has Dolphin as the default file > manager > . > I know the guide is not complete yet, but maybe Dolphin should also be > mentioned (if someone of you writers has the time to test KDE4 when F9 hits > beta). > > I don't have an extra machine to run Rawhide on and I haven't gotten myself to > try any of these virtualisation things, even though they sound quite usable > for testing... > > -- > Ville-Pekka Vainio > Ok last night I installed KDE4 on F8 and there was nothing significant that changes. Menu locations go Kmenu > Applications and some multimedia stuff changed. I've used dolphin but we don't use it for anything as it is. The major change I will work on is the KDE desktop where I'll explain how to add favorites and other things and alt + f2 to search for applications and Google. If anyone wants to install it or wants to know more details jump in #fedora-kde or give me a yell. Apart from that I'm waiting for the last beta for final screenshots of the desktop for the KDE section. Edit status on everything still stands since content wise there is nothing major to alter. Cheers, Marc From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 03:25:51 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:25:51 -0500 Subject: AG - DUG Tentative Schedule In-Reply-To: <1201296666.19870.9.camel@versuz> References: <1201296666.19870.9.camel@versuz> Message-ID: <1201490751.9895.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-01-25 at 22:31 +0100, Bart Couvreur wrote: > Hi all, > > Just a basic schedule proposal to set some dates for both AG and DUG > If this is good, we can add it to our master schedule [1] > > * now - 15 Feb: writing, shifting content, ... > * 15 Feb: Basic deadline for guide writing, content should be > edit-ready, and in the correct order > * 16 - 22 Feb: Editorial pass on the wiki (to keep edits in > wikik-rawhide too) > * ?? 23: Wiki2XML tutorial day (might be a good idea) > * 23 - 29 Feb: Wiki-to-DocBook conversion > * 1 March: Launch of both guides (English version) + send off > POT-files to L10N > > Comments? I won't be around 21-24 Feb -- I'll be house-hunting with my wife in New Hampshire. But I know we have at least a couple people around here who have done this work and hopefully can lend a hand. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marceloramone at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 09:40:52 2008 From: marceloramone at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Marcelo_Mart=EDnez?=) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 07:40:52 -0200 Subject: Translated WIKI: Fedora Overview Message-ID: Hello everyone! I think it is very important that this section be translated into other languages: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview I will talk with a friend who has a better English to translate the Spanish section. When I get the translated text will posted here. Regards, Marcelo .- -- -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Jan 28 10:03:58 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:33:58 +0530 Subject: Translated WIKI: Fedora Overview In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <479DA88E.2050304@fedoraproject.org> Marcelo Mart?nez wrote: > Hello everyone! > > I think it is very important that this section be translated into other > languages: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview > > I will talk with a friend who has a better English to translate the > Spanish section. > > When I get the translated text will posted here. Paul, weren't you planning to revise this document? Rahul From diegobz at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 11:18:42 2008 From: diegobz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Diego_B=FArigo_Zacar=E3o?=) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 09:18:42 -0200 Subject: Translated WIKI: Fedora Overview In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <6600c1b10801280318w32d4d597h356dfd27a0c30e74@mail.gmail.com> Hi! 2008/1/28, Marcelo Mart?nez : > > Hello everyone! > > I think it is very important that this section be translated into other > languages: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Overview > > I will talk with a friend who has a better English to translate the > Spanish section. > Well, you can put the translation in an URL like that: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/es/Overview The Brazilian project has a similar page translated to pt_BR: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/pt_BR/Overview Regards -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o Linux User #402589 USE SOFTWARE LIVRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Mon Jan 28 11:38:18 2008 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 11:38:18 +0000 Subject: Wiki Gardening In-Reply-To: <479DA88E.2050304@fedoraproject.org> References: <479DA88E.2050304@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1201520298.2738.20.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, I guess this is the best place to post about this, but I noticed some people talking about trying to re-organise the wiki a bit and wondered if anybody wanted a hand with it? Best wishes, Jon From Brian.Goulter at clear.net.nz Mon Jan 28 19:25:01 2008 From: Brian.Goulter at clear.net.nz (Brian) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:25:01 +1300 Subject: downloads web page minor error Message-ID: <0JVD007DZCLMS400@smtp3.clear.net.nz> Hi I don't know the correct way to pass on this information, so could you either advise me, or forward it. On the page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/Download The headings for the SHA1 checksums are not correctly associated with the value ====== * i386 (32-bit AMD, Intel Pentium, Intel Core Duo) * 782a0e80de1b8e9f24e10e40055cc1b545390cbd Fedora-8-i386-DVD.iso * x86_64 (64-bit AMD64, EM64T, Intel Xeon, Intel Core 2 Duo) * 88168a5fce834463944ffa714b6c1cf2c81824ea Fedora-8-x86_64-DVD.iso * PowerPC (32-bit and 64-bit Macintosh, 64-bit pSeries) * d4a12f8864eaccf09bf3a8790bd8d6b758b72f64 Fedora-8-ppc-DVD.iso ====== Cheers Brian -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ivazqueznet at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 21:05:09 2008 From: ivazqueznet at gmail.com (Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:05:09 -0500 Subject: New toy Message-ID: <1201554309.28780.18.camel@ignacio.lan> Yes, I should probably finish fixing the old toy, but here's something to occupy you in the meantime. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=430578 -- Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jan 28 21:59:47 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 13:59:47 -0800 Subject: downloads web page minor error In-Reply-To: <0JVD007DZCLMS400@smtp3.clear.net.nz> References: <0JVD007DZCLMS400@smtp3.clear.net.nz> Message-ID: <1201557587.9134.216.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, 2008-01-29 at 08:25 +1300, Brian wrote: > Hi > > I don?t know the correct way to pass on this information, so could you > either advise me, or forward it. webmaster at fedoraproject.org works for most web problems, but since this is on the wiki, any contributor should be able to fix it. Looking at this page: > On the page http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/Download > > The headings for the SHA1 checksums are not correctly associated with > the value ... I don't understand what is incorrect. The list you show (below) seems correct to my eyes. Can you describe it further or, if needed, provide a screenshot? thx - Karsten > > > ====== > > * i386 (32-bit AMD, Intel Pentium, Intel Core Duo) > ? 782a0e80de1b8e9f24e10e40055cc1b545390cbd Fedora-8-i386-DVD.iso > * x86_64 (64-bit AMD64, EM64T, Intel Xeon, Intel Core 2 Duo) > ? 88168a5fce834463944ffa714b6c1cf2c81824ea Fedora-8-x86_64-DVD.iso > * PowerPC (32-bit and 64-bit Macintosh, 64-bit pSeries) > ? d4a12f8864eaccf09bf3a8790bd8d6b758b72f64 Fedora-8-ppc-DVD.iso > > ====== > > > > Cheers > > Brian > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 28 22:09:56 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 07:09:56 +0900 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <1201398790.16731.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200801252332.21702.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> <1201300905.1560.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200801260100.47777.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> <1201398790.16731.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1201558196.2850.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> I'm hopefully going to do some editing today to see if I can get the easy edits out of the way. I'll list out what I think can someone correct me if I'm incorrect. Gnome, KDE no bolding no nothing Program = bold Menu = italic Is that correct? Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 28 23:01:05 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:01:05 +0900 Subject: New toy In-Reply-To: <1201554309.28780.18.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <1201554309.28780.18.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <1201561265.2850.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2008-01-28 at 16:05 -0500, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > Yes, I should probably finish fixing the old toy, but here's something > to occupy you in the meantime. > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=430578 > > -- > Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams > > PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed > Sadly I can't do a full review. Are you in Fedora extras already? Do you need a sponsor? I can probably do a partial review. Cheers, Marc From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon Jan 28 23:05:12 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:05:12 +0900 Subject: New toy In-Reply-To: <1201561265.2850.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201554309.28780.18.camel@ignacio.lan> <1201561265.2850.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1201561512.2850.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-01-29 at 08:01 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Mon, 2008-01-28 at 16:05 -0500, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > > Yes, I should probably finish fixing the old toy, but here's something > > to occupy you in the meantime. > > > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=430578 > > > > -- > > Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams > > > > PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed > > > > Sadly I can't do a full review. Are you in Fedora extras already? Do you > need a sponsor? > > I can probably do a partial review. > > Cheers, > > Marc > Never mind I found your name in Fedora-extras. I'll work through it tonight my time morning your time. I need to head off to this job interview. Cheers, Marc From naranhuu at gmail.com Mon Jan 28 23:31:56 2008 From: naranhuu at gmail.com (naranhuu uridiinbish) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 08:31:56 +0900 Subject: Self-introduction: Naranhuu Uridiinbish Message-ID: Hi, I'm Narankhuu Uridiinbish. I live in Tokyo, Japan and am from Mongolia. I'm a student of Tokyo Intitute of Technology, and learning for IT. I just started to translate Fedora into Mongolian , so I would like to translate the documentation of Fedora to Mongolian. Best regards, Narankhuu Uridiinbish pub 1024D/449582BD 2008-01-28 Key fingerprint = D01D D85F 6F6D 3A3A D615 C4F1 D235 4C99 4495 82BD uid narankhuu sub 2048g/774E5AAB 2008-01-28 From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Jan 29 00:20:06 2008 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 16:20:06 -0800 Subject: one summary to rule them all In-Reply-To: <1201114687.19482.96.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1201114687.19482.96.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <479E7136.8040709@redhat.com> Karsten 'quaid' Wade said the following on 01/23/2008 10:58 AM Pacific Time: > We've struggled for the last several releases with multiple release > summaries and overviews, keeping them in sync, and so forth. > > Last release, Paul and I swore we would find a way to provide a single, > canonical source for *all* of these. > > Today I noticed yet another release summary in the wild that needs > taming, inclusion, or something: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy#Enhancements > > A release summary is referred to there that can be added to by anyone. > *sigh* It sounds like a good conspiracy on the part of the feature wrangler, but it I didn't sneak it in. It was agreed to by FESCo during the review of the feature policy for the upcoming Fedora 9 release cycle. I even encouraged people from the docs team to attend that very FESCo meeting. :) I would continue to encourage people from the docs team to attend FESCo meeting when features and the feature process are discussed. John From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 29 05:05:58 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 21:05:58 -0800 Subject: DuG In-Reply-To: <1201558196.2850.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201093452.5542.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200801252332.21702.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> <1201300905.1560.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <200801260100.47777.vpivaini@cs.helsinki.fi> <1201398790.16731.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1201558196.2850.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1201583158.5621.60.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, 2008-01-29 at 07:09 +0900, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > > I'm hopefully going to do some editing today to see if I can get the easy > edits out of the way. > > I'll list out what I think can someone correct me if I'm incorrect. > > Gnome, KDE no bolding no nothing s/Gnome/GNOME/g :) We do have an obligation to get trademarks correct. At the least, we should be consistent so it is easier to find and replace whenever we need to fix it. > Program = bold I.e., applications == '''Firefox''', '''Koffice''' > Menu = italic Include the > marks to make it easy: ''Menu > Menu2 > Menuitem'' > Is that correct? Yes. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jan 29 17:54:06 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:54:06 -0500 Subject: Meeting Message-ID: <1201629246.23012.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Apologies, but I probably can't make today's meeting (2008-01-29). This is the last week for which making this meeting means leaving $DAYJOB early, and I simply can't swing it with so little time left. Carry on and I'll see you guys next time around. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bob at fedoraunity.org Tue Jan 29 18:00:08 2008 From: bob at fedoraunity.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 12:00:08 -0600 Subject: Meeting 2008/01/29 In-Reply-To: <1201629246.23012.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1201629246.23012.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <479F69A8.7070302@fedoraunity.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Apologies, but I probably can't make today's meeting (2008-01-29). This > is the last week for which making this meeting means leaving $DAYJOB > early, and I simply can't swing it with so little time left. Carry on > and I'll see you guys next time around. > > Thanks for letting us know Paul. Looking forward to the coming weeks. Robert 'Bob' Jensen http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 29 21:26:22 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 13:26:22 -0800 Subject: One Summary outline draft Message-ID: <1201641982.5621.205.camel@calliope.phig.org> How does this outline look? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarstenWade/Drafts/OneSummary ... in trying to be inclusive for all the parts of the Project. -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jan 29 22:45:21 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 14:45:21 -0800 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-01-29 IRC log Message-ID: <1201646721.5621.222.camel@calliope.phig.org> HTML here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20080129#preview 13:05 < quaid> 13:05 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda 13:06 < quaid> does it mean something that when I start to type "fedor..." in Firefox, it is the Meetings page that comes up first in the history? 13:06 < quaid> ok, so far I've seen 13:06 < quaid> present: quaid, couf, EvilBob 13:07 < quaid> which is good enough to start something 13:07 * quaid . o O { game of whist? } 13:07 < EvilBob> jsmith is here 13:07 < quaid> sorry 13:07 < quaid> present: jsmith :) 13:07 < quaid> quorum! 13:07 < couf> so quorum :-) 13:07 < jsmith> YEah, I'm here 13:07 < quaid> jinx 13:07 < jsmith> Sorry, trying to do five things at once 13:08 < quaid> no worries 13:08 < quaid> let's see ... why discuss the one summary update? 13:08 < quaid> I think there is some confusion still in what we can do 13:08 < quaid> poelcat: if you are here, your input is appreciated on this topic 13:09 * poelcat is here 13:09 < quaid> I want to ponder ... can we do it all in one page with so many different focuses? 13:10 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si at fedora/kital] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 13:10 < quaid> poelcat: btw, my *sigh* over the group release summary was global not targeted; we've let the different summaries get out of control, so that was more self-recrimination than anything 13:10 < EvilBob> this is the one sheet for the release notes? 13:10 < quaid> aye 13:11 < poelcat> quaid: np :) 13:11 < quaid> relnotes OverView + Release/#/Summary + press kit + any other release summary usasges (press releases, etc.) 13:11 < poelcat> hard to say... there are so many focuses and yet so few people that consistently fill out all the details 13:12 < quaid> per feature you mean? 13:12 < quaid> or who come from a feature and fill out the master? 13:12 < poelcat> yes, per feature or enhancements 13:13 < quaid> ok, do we know enough right now about this topic to make a decision? 13:13 < couf> keep a master list, with links to developper/user-specific info? 13:13 < quaid> or do we punt back to the list for more discussion 13:13 < quaid> ? 13:13 < poelcat> one possibility i just thought of 13:13 < poelcat> is have the docs team "own" the 'release notes' and 'documentation' sections of the feature pages 13:13 < poelcat> in terms of making sure they get completed 13:14 -!- fab_away [n=bellet at bellet.info] has quit ["Leaving"] 13:14 < poelcat> divide among doc writers so each feature has a "doc owner" 13:14 < poelcat> they can then collaborate with the feature owner 13:14 < poelcat> which could also be parlayed into the release summary? 13:16 -!- tibbs [n=tibbs at fedora/tibbs] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 13:16 < jsmith> OK...short term gain, but long term is that sending the right message? 13:16 -!- mether [n=ask at fedora/mether] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 13:16 < poelcat> what is the "right message" ? 13:17 < jsmith> I thought the message was "If it's worth adding a new feature, it's worth documenting it." 13:17 -!- fab_away [n=bellet at bellet.info] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:18 < jsmith> (putting the onus on the person responsible for the feature to add some basic documentation to the feature page) 13:18 < poelcat> jsmith: I would agree with that statement; i'm not sure how many package maintainers would :) 13:18 < quaid> we are mixing discussions somewhat, i think 13:18 < quaid> the Release Notes section in a feature is different than the one summary discussion 13:18 < quaid> but they are interrelated, yes 13:18 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarstenWade/Drafts/OneSummary 13:19 < quaid> this is what I was thinking as an example of how to structure it 13:19 -!- ldimagg__ [n=ldimaggi at nat/redhat/x-4cbc4edc2440a198] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:19 < quaid> poelcat: in terms of your idea of per-feature writers, two answers: 13:19 < quaid> yes, we have beat writers for that purpose 13:19 < quaid> no, we have a historical resources issue, and that model doesn't scale as well 13:19 < quaid> I prefer to have Docs + Marketing watch that area 13:20 < quaid> maybe we can make Feature/*/ReleaseNotes a separte page that is Included()ed 13:20 < quaid> then it is easy to have that watched by a group who can help devels 13:20 < quaid> so people can dump they brains in there and we'll help them massage it over time 13:21 < EvilBob> +1 13:23 < quaid> poelcat: I'm writing an email for f-devel-l to tackle relnotes in the features; I am going to propose they be a blocker 13:23 < jsmith> +1 13:24 < couf> +1 13:24 < quaid> as for this topic ... :) 13:24 < quaid> how about I bounce that draft outline to the list and we can discuss it there? 13:25 < jsmith> Sure, sounds good. 13:25 < EvilBob> Sure 13:26 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at nat/redhat/x-5f368509762a0e12] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 13:26 < quaid> done 13:27 < quaid> moving on 13:27 < poelcat> quaid: blocker in terms of whether something is "feature complete"? 13:27 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo - Update on active content work 13:27 < quaid> poelcat: yes 13:28 < quaid> poelcat: it mainly involves changing "should complete this page" to "must complete this page" in the Process 13:28 < quaid> it is otherwise quite clear in the process that release notes (as wel as the entire feature page) is pretty needed 13:28 < quaid> except the feature process itself does not enforce completing a feature page, afaict 13:30 < quaid> ok, back on topic :) 13:30 < EvilBob> We have a topic? 13:30 * quaid looks at the /topic 13:31 < quaid> ok ... it looks like we haven't really asked if anyone wants to do the one-sheet for F9 alpha ... 13:31 < quaid> I did try to blackmail f13 last time we met, but that seems to have failed 13:32 < quaid> f13: the one-sheet relnotes we do for alpha and beta are really for QA, testing, and releng to highlight what they want testers to be thinking about; 13:32 < quaid> what is a good way to gather that info? 13:32 < quaid> we can open the wiki page and send invites to ... ? 13:32 < f13> fedora-devel-list ? 13:32 < f13> feature owners? 13:34 < quaid> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Alpha/ReleaseNotes 13:34 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:34 < quaid> k 13:34 < poelcat> quaid: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=428703 13:34 < poelcat> for "known issues" 13:35 < quaid> cool 13:38 < jsmith> Next? 13:39 < quaid> yes, thanks 13:39 * quaid was emailing 13:39 < f13> also.. 13:39 < quaid> DUG? AG? SMG? Crypto? 13:40 < f13> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/9/AlphaTreeTesting 13:40 * Sparks_too needs to bail soon but would like to talk about SMG, Crypto, and Policy Kit 13:41 -!- giallu [n=giallu at 81-174-45-111.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined #fedora-meeting 13:41 < quaid> Sparks_too: go ahead ... 13:42 < Sparks_too> The SMG is pretty much done... 13:42 < jsmith> I've got the doc-of-many-names in CVS (yum-software-management-guide-thingy) in CVS, but I haven't yet edited it for content. 13:42 < Sparks_too> I'm still working on the yum-addons (yum-util)... 13:42 < jsmith> Hoping to find time for that this week 13:42 < Sparks_too> but it is pretty much done. 13:43 < Sparks_too> I'm also attempting to get information on PackageKit that can be included if it is included in F9. 13:43 < Sparks_too> I hope to finish the yum-addons tonight. 13:44 < Sparks_too> Crypto: I have verified the step-by-step instructions for encrypting your /home partition. I still have a lot of research to do for some other items that need to be included. 13:44 < Sparks_too> That is all I got. 13:45 < jsmith> herlo has converted that section of the Crypto guide to DocBook 13:45 < jsmith> I'll be going over it w/ him later this week 13:47 < quaid> Sparks_too: I know one expert (the original author of the CryptoGuide) has been watching carefully, so he'll let you know if he sees anything bad 13:47 < quaid> we want that one out for F9 13:47 < quaid> then there is better chance that the next RHEL can pick up the content :) 13:47 < quaid> (which is missing from RHEL 5 docs :( ) 13:48 < Sparks_too> quaid: Okay, I'll make that a priority right after the SMG. 13:48 < quaid> Sparks_too or jsmith was going to file a bug about making a new component for the SMG 13:48 < quaid> ok 13:48 -!- trashy [n=trashy at fedora/trashy] has left #fedora-meeting ["Leaving"] 13:48 < quaid> AG and DUG have been updated on list ... 13:48 < quaid> poelcat: did you see the strawman schedules couf put up? 13:48 < jsmith> quaid: What exactly do you mean by "component"? A component in Bugzilla? Or something else? 13:48 * quaid hadn't gone to see if there were any dependency conflicts, etc. 13:48 < quaid> jsmith: yes bugzilla component 13:49 < quaid> it was Sparks_too I was chatting with i guess 13:49 < jsmith> Wasn't me. 13:49 < Sparks_too> quaid: If you want, you can have all SMG bugs go to me if you like. 13:49 < quaid> Sparks_too: put that in the bug you file, that you should be the component owner 13:49 < Sparks_too> quaid: Okay. 13:50 < quaid> I'll recall later how we do that; i know how to fix the CVSROOT/modules but am not clear if that auto-updates bz 13:50 < quaid> beats ... 13:50 < quaid> i'm going to blog about it, send out a reminde rto f-devel-l 13:50 < Sparks_too> quaid: Should we just rename yum-software-manangement to Software Management Guide? 13:50 < quaid> feel free to start bugging people to assign beat writers 13:50 < quaid> Sparks_too: perhaps, unclear if that is how it works 13:50 -!- bzbot is now known as buggbot 13:51 * quaid realizes he needs to leave at five minutes to the hour so we can make the Board meeting call from his house :) 13:51 < quaid> so ... 13:51 < EvilBob> Sorry all I have been away for the last 20 minutes dealing with a staff situation here 13:51 < quaid> punting meeting time until next week 13:51 < quaid> and we still need to discuss chair/leader stuff, but we need to have that with the full FDSCo IMHO 13:51 < EvilBob> I have a couple real quick items that were not in the agenda 13:51 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo AOB 13:51 < quaid> go mango 13:52 < EvilBob> I would like to put the Chair situation on the agenda for next week 13:52 * Sparks_too heads out... See everyone later this evening. 13:52 < EvilBob> also we have two moderated lists that we are in charge of 13:52 < EvilBob> fedora-docs-\* 13:53 < quaid> on the first item, sure, let 13:53 < EvilBob> I have been handling the moderator requests for list for a couple days and will keep doing so 13:53 < quaid> 's put it on 13:53 < quaid> I filter those requests to the side, to be honest 13:53 < EvilBob> can someone please take care of commits please 13:53 < quaid> because they are always spam 13:53 < EvilBob> nope 13:54 < quaid> really? 13:54 < EvilBob> we had one good message this week 13:54 < quaid> that's a shame 13:54 < quaid> from an external person not on the list? 13:54 < EvilBob> yeah the website question 13:54 < quaid> ah 13:54 < quaid> see 13:55 < quaid> perfect example of why I hate those ones :) 13:55 < quaid> I replied on list and no wonder he didn't reply 13:55 < EvilBob> it will take 5-10 minutes a day or a half hour once a week 13:55 < EvilBob> I will just let it go again now, in a month if no one picked it up I would like to ask that both lists share a password 13:56 < quaid> we can do that one for sure 13:56 < quaid> we can also invite other moderators than the SCo 13:56 < EvilBob> that makes it easier for me to log in to both and handle them 13:56 < EvilBob> that is all I have 13:56 < quaid> EvilBob: you want to go ahead and make the docs-commits password the same as the docs-list one? 13:56 < couf> sorry, got major phone call 13:56 < EvilBob> we can talk more next week' 13:56 < quaid> ok, I've got to jet myself 13:56 < EvilBob> quaid: I can do that 13:57 < quaid> buffer is above, I'll post the log etc. in a few 13:57 < quaid> EvilBob: thanks 13:57 < quaid> good point, glad you saw that post 13:57 < EvilBob> 13:57 * quaid must have dumped good stuff in the past :( 13:57 < quaid> <== bad moderator, no donut! 13:57 < quaid> aye 13:57 < quaid> -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jan 30 03:07:49 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2008 22:07:49 -0500 Subject: Ready for Review: Software Management Guide Message-ID: <479FEA05.90607@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I just got finished putting some information into chapter nine for Yum-Utils. I will probably go back and revisit what I wrote tomorrow but I think the entire guide is ready for review and editing. The contributers before did a real good job of documenting Yum and the associated programs so there shouldn't be too bad off. Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHn+oEL5V8yddJCO0RAjJtAJ44MsCDswemIeWeqyTZxMRndi4OOgCfYQCd p8zUidopo/T/ygds0LPc8fA= =YPhs -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vnk at mkc.co.nz Wed Jan 30 03:12:31 2008 From: vnk at mkc.co.nz (Vladimir Kosovac) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:12:31 +1300 Subject: One Summary outline draft In-Reply-To: <1201641982.5621.205.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1201641982.5621.205.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <479FEB1F.7050101@mkc.co.nz> Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > How does this outline look? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarstenWade/Drafts/OneSummary > > ... in trying to be inclusive for all the parts of the Project. > > Apologies for cross-posting but I'd like to try to tie together some ideas that have been floating around the fab and docs lists. Is it feasible to start looking at the Release Notes / Release Summary and some issues with timely production of those, mentioned in FDSCo meeting[2] today, through the spectacles of Mr Spaleta's post [1] and his rainbow diagram[3]? There seems to be a good cross-section of FP subprojects involved in a production of release notes and summaries, all of which could benefit from the better co-ordination of the effort: * Maintainers/Packagers * Testers/Bug Triagers * Beats and Docs writers / Translators * Artists * Marketing Being inventive (not!), I thought something like RelNotes SIG, acting as an umbrella for all of the * above might achieve this better co-ordination. Immediate and a very visible benefit would be accurate Release Notes produced on time throughout the dev-cycle (and Rahul and others relieved of beyond-human effort during the last 48 hrs before the mirrors open every 6-7 months). The other, less visible benefit, is the possibility (there was a bit of a talk about it within docs team, too) to use this road to attract new contributors and get them started on smaller, less intimidating pieces of the project. Is there anything fundamentally wrong with this? Cheers, Vladimir --------------------- [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2008-January/msg00248.html [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20080129#preview [3] http://fedorapeople.org/~jspaleta/role-based-sigs/sig-teams.png -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 251 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Jan 30 10:56:35 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 21:56:35 +1100 Subject: Self-introduction: Naranhuu Uridiinbish In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <95f1114b0801300256y40ef354nb232209965b28e88@mail.gmail.com> On Jan 29, 2008 10:31 AM, naranhuu uridiinbish wrote: > Hi, > I'm Narankhuu Uridiinbish. I live in Tokyo, Japan and am from > Mongolia. I'm a student of Tokyo Intitute of Technology, and learning > for IT. I just started to translate Fedora into Mongolian , so I > would like to translate the documentation of Fedora to Mongolian. > > Best regards, > Narankhuu Uridiinbish > > pub 1024D/449582BD 2008-01-28 > Key fingerprint = D01D D85F 6F6D 3A3A D615 C4F1 D235 4C99 4495 82BD > uid narankhuu > sub 2048g/774E5AAB 2008-01-28 Hey Hey, Welcome and thanks for joining! Kind Regards, Murray. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com Wed Jan 30 15:39:38 2008 From: jonathan.roberts.uk at googlemail.com (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 15:39:38 +0000 Subject: One Summary outline draft In-Reply-To: <1201641982.5621.205.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1201641982.5621.205.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1201707578.2759.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-01-29 at 13:26 -0800, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > How does this outline look? > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarstenWade/Drafts/OneSummary > > ... in trying to be inclusive for all the parts of the Project. I quite like the look of it but have a couple of questions: How does this fulfil the needs of the release notes - i.e. the more technical content? Is there any point maintaining the distinction between the Release Notes and the #/Summary? Hmm that's all I can think for now :) I especially like the idea of targeting Desktop/Server etc... Jon > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From kwade at redhat.com Wed Jan 30 16:48:50 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2008 08:48:50 -0800 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-01-29 Summary Message-ID: <1201711730.5621.344.camel@calliope.phig.org> Summary of 2008-01-29 FDSCo meeting Attendees: ---------- KarstenWade (quaid) BartCouvrier (couf) BobJensen (EvilBob) JaredSmith (jsmith) ... and friends: ---------------- EricChristensen (Sparks_too) JohnPoelstra (poelcat) JesseKeating (f13) Summary: -------- * Draft idea of what One Summary could look like: - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarstenWade/Drafts/OneSummary ACTION :: List discussion on approach * Fedora Docs asks feature owners to do their duty - Feature owners have the onus to document their feature "If it's worth adding a new feature, it's worth documenting it." - Fedora Docs is going to request of FESCo that the feature process be amended to make release notes a blocking requirement ACTION :: poelcat - make Feature/*/ReleaseNotes a separate page pulled in with an Include() so that Docs + Marketing can watch that content? ACTION :: quaid sending email to f-devel-l to gain consensus ACTION :: FDSCo to raise request to FESCo * F9 Alpha release notes one-sheet - These notes should come from the testing/QA plans ACTION :: quaid to send email to f-devel-l * Software Management Guide - Converted to XML in CVS - Ready for draft pub edit - To include PackageKit if it drops for F9 in time - Target for March beta * Crypto Guide - Initial content confirmed - Researching other additions - Target for March beta? * Administration Guide and Desktop User Guide - On target for March beta * List moderation - Fedora Docs has three lists: f-docs-l, f-docs-commits, and f-relnotes-content - EvilBob requested assistance moderating f-docs-commits - We can share this moderation outside of FDSCo * FDSCo Chair election - Item pushed to next week's agenda -- Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu Jan 31 09:29:09 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 12:29:09 +0300 Subject: Spam Mail and Fedora-docs subscribers Message-ID: <9d2c731f0801310129t199cc4b9o6cc345a4ad8a786f@mail.gmail.com> Fedora Infrastructure Team: For the past several weeks, the Fedora Docs list has been hit hard (at least 500+) with spam e-mails. They get rejected, but, I, as an owner of the list, am getting flooded with these rejected notices, making my job harder. I also notice an increase in unsubscribe notices, which may be unrelated. Can you please check this out and let me know if there is anything that can be done to tighten up the filters? I know there are at least 3 other list owners of Fedora-Docs-list who are being affected. Best Regards, John Babich Member, Fedora Docs Steering Committee (FDSCo) From mmcgrath at redhat.com Thu Jan 31 14:05:59 2008 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 08:05:59 -0600 (CST) Subject: Spam Mail and Fedora-docs subscribers In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0801310129t199cc4b9o6cc345a4ad8a786f@mail.gmail.com> References: <9d2c731f0801310129t199cc4b9o6cc345a4ad8a786f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 31 Jan 2008, John Babich wrote: > Fedora Infrastructure Team: > > For the past several weeks, the Fedora Docs list has been hit hard (at > least 500+) with spam e-mails. They get rejected, but, I, as an owner > of the list, am getting flooded with these rejected notices, making my > job harder. > > I also notice an increase in unsubscribe notices, which may be unrelated. > > Can you please check this out and let me know if there is anything > that can be done to tighten up the filters? > > I know there are at least 3 other list owners of Fedora-Docs-list who > are being affected. > > Best Regards, > Yes there is, if someone forwards me the password for admin access to the list I can set it up and then show you guys how to maintain/tweak it. -Mike From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Thu Jan 31 18:49:31 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 19:49:31 +0100 Subject: Fedora howtos ? Message-ID: <64b14b300801311049t32d807a5m6e5a44a68a92df8e@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am wondering where can I find official howtos for Fedora? if there are no official howtos are there any good other online resources? Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jan 31 18:58:45 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2008 13:58:45 -0500 Subject: Fedora howtos ? In-Reply-To: <64b14b300801311049t32d807a5m6e5a44a68a92df8e@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300801311049t32d807a5m6e5a44a68a92df8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080131185845.GC24305@localhost.localdomain> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Valent, Not sure exactly what Howto you are looking for but there are documents at http://docs.fedoraproject.org and on the Fedora Project Wiki. Eric On Thu, Jan 31, 2008 at 07:49:31PM +0100, Valent Turkovic wrote: > Hi, > I am wondering where can I find official howtos for Fedora? if there > are no official howtos are there any good other online resources? > > Cheers, > Valent. > > -- > http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ > linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless > registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. > ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFHohplL5V8yddJCO0RAhhSAJ9Sj0eMMU8pq5DZr44K/qeGFJDQ8QCffDAk HH3iPiYcwCTlRJrkv9GoHvQ= =Kpke -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Thu Jan 31 23:18:00 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2008 08:18:00 +0900 Subject: Features for F-9 Message-ID: <1201821480.8025.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey all, Just listing some features which were are documented for F-9. It might be an idea to see what changes are going to take place specifically to update the docs. The other links are more for people to know what has been approved and will make it into Fedora. The install guide may need to be looked at. Cheers, Marc http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureEncryptedFilesystems http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/PreUpgrade http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Features/SecondStageInstallSource