FDSCo Meeting 2008-01-29 IRC log

Tue Jan 29 22:45:21 UTC 2008

HTML here:

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20080129#preview

13:05 < quaid> <meeting>
13:05 < quaid>
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Agenda
13:06 < quaid> does it mean something that when I start to type
"fedor..." in Firefox, it is the Meetings page that comes up first in
the history?
13:06 < quaid> ok, so far I've seen
13:06 < quaid> present: quaid, couf, EvilBob 
13:07 < quaid> which is good enough to start something
13:07  * quaid . o O { game of whist? }
13:07 < EvilBob> jsmith is here
13:07 < quaid> sorry
13:07 < quaid> present: jsmith :)
13:07 < quaid> quorum!
13:07 < couf> so quorum :-)
13:07 < jsmith> YEah, I'm here
13:07 < quaid> jinx
13:07 < jsmith> Sorry, trying to do five things at once
13:08 < quaid> no worries
13:08 < quaid> let's see ... why discuss the one summary update?
13:08 < quaid> I think there is some confusion still in what we can do
13:08 < quaid> poelcat: if you are here, your input is appreciated on
this topic
13:09  * poelcat is here
13:09 < quaid> I want to ponder ... can we do it all in one page with so
many different focuses?
13:10 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si at fedora/kital] has quit [Read error: 113 (No
route to host)]
13:10 < quaid> poelcat: btw, my *sigh* over the group release summary
was global not targeted; we've let the different summaries get out of
control, so that was more self-recrimination than anything
13:10 < EvilBob> this is the one sheet for the release notes?
13:10 < quaid> aye
13:11 < poelcat> quaid: np :)
13:11 < quaid> relnotes OverView + Release/#/Summary + press kit + any
other release summary usasges (press releases, etc.)
13:11 < poelcat> hard to say... there are so many focuses and yet so few
people that consistently fill out all the details
13:12 < quaid> per feature you mean?
13:12 < quaid> or who come from a feature and fill out the master?
13:12 < poelcat> yes, per feature or enhancements
13:13 < quaid> ok, do we know enough right now about this topic to make
a decision?
13:13 < couf> keep a master list, with links to developper/user-specific
info?
13:13 < quaid> or do we punt back to the list for more discussion
13:13 < quaid> ?
13:13 < poelcat> one possibility i just thought of
13:13 < poelcat> is have the docs team "own" the 'release notes' and
'documentation' sections of the feature pages
13:13 < poelcat> in terms of making sure they get completed
13:14 -!- fab_away [n=bellet at bellet.info] has quit ["Leaving"]
13:14 < poelcat> divide among doc writers so each feature has a "doc
owner"
13:14 < poelcat> they can then collaborate with the feature owner
13:14 < poelcat> which could also be parlayed into the release summary?
13:16 -!- tibbs [n=tibbs at fedora/tibbs] has quit ["Konversation
terminated!"]
13:16 < jsmith> OK...short term gain, but long term is that sending the
right message?
13:16 -!- mether [n=ask at fedora/mether] has quit ["Ex-Chat"]
13:16 < poelcat> what is the "right message" ?
13:17 < jsmith> I thought the message was "If it's worth adding a new
feature, it's worth documenting it."
13:17 -!- fab_away [n=bellet at bellet.info] has joined #fedora-meeting
13:18 < jsmith> (putting the onus on the person responsible for the
feature to add some basic documentation to the feature page)
13:18 < poelcat> jsmith: I would agree with that statement; i'm not sure
how many package maintainers would :)
13:18 < quaid> we are mixing discussions somewhat, i think
13:18 < quaid> the Release Notes section in a feature is different than
the one summary discussion
13:18 < quaid> but they are interrelated, yes
13:18 < quaid>
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KarstenWade/Drafts/OneSummary
13:19 < quaid> this is what I was thinking as an example of how to
structure it
13:19 -!- ldimagg__ [n=ldimaggi at nat/redhat/x-4cbc4edc2440a198] has
joined #fedora-meeting
13:19 < quaid> poelcat: in terms of your idea of per-feature writers,
two answers:
13:19 < quaid> yes, we have beat writers for that purpose
13:19 < quaid> no, we have a historical resources issue, and that model
doesn't scale as well
13:19 < quaid> I prefer to have Docs + Marketing watch that area
13:20 < quaid> maybe we can make Feature/*/ReleaseNotes a separte page
that is Included()ed
13:20 < quaid> then it is easy to have that watched by a group who can
help devels
13:20 < quaid> so people can dump they brains in there and we'll help
them massage it over time
13:21 < EvilBob> +1
13:23 < quaid> poelcat: I'm writing an email for f-devel-l to tackle
relnotes in the features; I am going to propose they be a blocker
13:23 < jsmith> +1
13:24 < couf> +1
13:24 < quaid> as for this topic ... :)
13:24 < quaid> how about I bounce that draft outline to the list and we
can discuss it there?
13:25 < jsmith> Sure, sounds good.
13:25 < EvilBob> Sure
13:26 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at nat/redhat/x-5f368509762a0e12] has quit
[Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:26 < quaid> done
13:27 < quaid> moving on 
13:27 < poelcat> quaid: blocker in terms of whether something is
"feature complete"?
13:27 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo - Update
on active content work
13:27 < quaid> poelcat: yes
13:28 < quaid> poelcat: it mainly involves changing "should complete
this page" to "must complete this page" in the Process
13:28 < quaid> it is otherwise quite clear in the process that release
notes (as wel as the entire feature page) is pretty needed
13:28 < quaid> except the feature process itself does not enforce
completing a feature page, afaict
13:30 < quaid> ok, back on topic :)
13:30 < EvilBob> We have a topic?
13:30  * quaid looks at the /topic
13:31 < quaid> ok ... it looks like we haven't really asked if anyone
wants to do the one-sheet for F9 alpha ...
13:31 < quaid> I did try to blackmail f13 last time we met, but that
seems to have failed
13:32 < quaid> f13: the one-sheet relnotes we do for alpha and beta are
really for QA, testing, and releng to highlight what they want testers
to be thinking about;
13:32 < quaid> what is a good way to gather that info?
13:32 < quaid> we can open the wiki page and send invites to ... ?
13:32 < f13> fedora-devel-list ?
13:32 < f13> feature owners?
13:34 < quaid>
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/Alpha/ReleaseNotes
13:34 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka] has joined
#fedora-meeting
13:34 < quaid> k
13:34 < poelcat> quaid:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=428703
13:34 < poelcat> for "known issues"
13:35 < quaid> cool
13:38 < jsmith> Next?
13:39 < quaid> yes, thanks
13:39  * quaid was emailing
13:39 < f13> also..
13:39 < quaid> DUG?  AG?  SMG?  Crypto?
13:40 < f13> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/9/AlphaTreeTesting
13:40  * Sparks_too needs to bail soon but would like to talk about SMG,
Crypto, and Policy Kit
13:41 -!- giallu [n=giallu at 81-174-45-111.dynamic.ngi.it] has joined
#fedora-meeting
13:41 < quaid> Sparks_too: go ahead ...
13:42 < Sparks_too> The SMG is pretty much done...
13:42 < jsmith> I've got the doc-of-many-names in CVS
(yum-software-management-guide-thingy) in CVS, but I haven't yet edited
it for content.
13:42 < Sparks_too> I'm still working on the yum-addons (yum-util)...
13:42 < jsmith> Hoping to find time for that this week
13:42 < Sparks_too> but it is pretty much done.
13:43 < Sparks_too> I'm also attempting to get information on PackageKit
that can be included if it is included in F9.
13:43 < Sparks_too> I hope to finish the yum-addons tonight.
13:44 < Sparks_too> Crypto: I have verified the step-by-step
instructions for encrypting your /home partition.  I still have a lot of
research to do for some other items that need to be included.
13:44 < Sparks_too> That is all I got.
13:45 < jsmith> herlo has converted that section of the Crypto guide to
DocBook
13:45 < jsmith> I'll be going over it w/ him later this week
13:47 < quaid> Sparks_too: I know one expert (the original author of the
CryptoGuide) has been watching carefully, so he'll let you know if he
sees anything bad
13:47 < quaid> we want that one out for F9
13:47 < quaid> then there is better chance that the next RHEL can pick
up the content :)
13:47 < quaid> (which is missing from RHEL 5 docs :( )
13:48 < Sparks_too> quaid: Okay, I'll make that a priority right after
the SMG.
13:48 < quaid> Sparks_too or jsmith  was going to file a bug about
making a new component for the SMG
13:48 < quaid> ok
13:48 -!- trashy [n=trashy at fedora/trashy] has left #fedora-meeting
["Leaving"]
13:48 < quaid> AG and DUG have been updated on list ...
13:48 < quaid> poelcat: did you see the strawman schedules couf put up?
13:48 < jsmith> quaid: What exactly do you mean by "component"?  A
component in Bugzilla? Or something else?
13:48  * quaid hadn't gone to see if there were any dependency
conflicts, etc.
13:48 < quaid> jsmith: yes bugzilla component
13:49 < quaid> it was Sparks_too I was chatting with i guess
13:49 < jsmith> Wasn't me.
13:49 < Sparks_too> quaid: If you want, you can have all SMG bugs go to
me if you like.
13:49 < quaid> Sparks_too: put that in the bug you file, that you should
be the component owner
13:49 < Sparks_too> quaid: Okay.
13:50 < quaid> I'll recall later how we do that;  i know how to fix the
CVSROOT/modules but am not clear if that auto-updates bz
13:50 < quaid> beats ...
13:50 < quaid> i'm going to blog about it, send out a reminde rto
f-devel-l
13:50 < Sparks_too> quaid: Should we just rename
yum-software-manangement to Software Management Guide?
13:50 < quaid> feel free to start bugging people to assign beat writers
13:50 < quaid> Sparks_too: perhaps, unclear if that is how it works
13:50 -!- bzbot is now known as buggbot
13:51  * quaid realizes he needs to leave at five minutes to the hour so
we can make the Board meeting call from his house :)
13:51 < quaid> so ...
13:51 < EvilBob> Sorry all I have been away for the last 20 minutes
dealing with a staff situation here
13:51 < quaid> punting meeting time until next week
13:51 < quaid> and we still need to discuss chair/leader stuff, but we
need to have that with the full FDSCo IMHO
13:51 < EvilBob> I have a couple real quick items that were not in the
agenda
13:51 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo AOB
13:51 < quaid> go mango
13:52 < EvilBob> I would like to put the Chair situation on the agenda
for next week
13:52  * Sparks_too heads out...  See everyone later this evening.
13:52 < EvilBob> also we have two moderated lists that we are in charge
of
13:52 < EvilBob> fedora-docs-\*
13:53 < quaid> on the first item, sure, let
13:53 < EvilBob> I have been handling the moderator requests for list
for a couple days and will keep doing so
13:53 < quaid> 's put it on
13:53 < quaid> I filter those requests to the side, to be honest
13:53 < EvilBob> can someone please take care of commits please
13:53 < quaid> because they are always spam
13:53 < EvilBob> nope
13:54 < quaid> really?
13:54 < EvilBob> we had one good message this week
13:54 < quaid> that's a shame
13:54 < quaid> from an external person not on the list?
13:54 < EvilBob> yeah the website question
13:54 < quaid> ah
13:54 < quaid> see
13:55 < quaid> perfect example of why I hate those ones :)
13:55 < quaid> I replied on list and no wonder he didn't reply
13:55 < EvilBob> it will take 5-10 minutes a day or a half hour once a
week
13:55 < EvilBob> I will just let it go again now, in a month if no one
picked it up I would like to ask that both lists share a password
13:56 < quaid> we can do that one for sure
13:56 < quaid> we can also invite other moderators than the SCo
13:56 < EvilBob> that makes it easier for me to log in to both and
handle them
13:56 < EvilBob> that is all I have
13:56 < quaid> EvilBob: you want to go ahead and make the docs-commits
password the same as the docs-list one?
13:56 < couf> sorry, got major phone call
13:56 < EvilBob> we can talk more next week'
13:56 < quaid> ok, I've got to jet myself
13:56 < EvilBob> quaid: I can do that
13:57 < quaid> buffer is above, I'll post the log etc. in a few
13:57 < quaid> EvilBob: thanks
13:57 < quaid> good point, glad you saw that post
13:57 < EvilBob> </meeting>
13:57  * quaid must have dumped good stuff in the past :(
13:57 < quaid> <== bad moderator, no donut!
13:57 < quaid> aye
13:57 < quaid> </meeting>

-- 
Karsten Wade, Developer Community Mgr.
Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com
Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
gpg key : AD0E0C41
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