FDSCo Meeting 2008-03-12 IRC Log

[John Babich]

<quaid>	</meeting>
<quaid>	jmbuser is present, so am I
*	quaid gets the agenda rolling ...
<quaid>	stickster was here ...
<quaid>	so three of us at least
<quaid>	EvilBob: it's your topic up first, btw
*	ezq (n=ezq at host201.190-224-66.telecom.net.ar) has joined #fedora-meeting
*	quaid has changed the topic to: FDSCo mtg -- Mailing list spam and moderation
*	stickster here
<quaid>	hmm, without Bob I don't think we get the full impatc
<quaid>	but aiui
<quaid>	he was concerned with list moderators stepping on each other
<quaid>	outside of designating hours of coverage (horrors!)
<quaid>	I think we just have to be careful
<quaid>	and make sure we know what we are rejecting
<quaid>	for this I use the Mailman WebUI to be sure
<jmbuser>	quaid: Is there any way to prevent the spam mail from
cloggin up my webmail?
<jmbuser>	s / cloggin / clogging /
<quaid>	filters?
<quaid>	also ...
<quaid>	Mike was going to adjust our filters
<quaid>	but afaict he hasn't
<quaid>	I don't know quite what to do there and haven't found anyone
who can help
*	quaid tries not to say M I K E ' s name so as to not distract him
from FAS2 fun
<jmbuser>	The signal-to-noise ratio drops drastically with spam and
causes me to miss real information
<quaid>	hmm
<quaid>	I'm not sure if the spam filters drop the message before it
gets to the queue
<quaid>	I'll drop mike an  email about the filters
<jmbuser>	thanks
<quaid>	ok, that's about what we can do
<quaid>	jmbuser: are you using the web interface for moderating?  or
still using the reply-to in the email stuff?
<stickster>	Hm, I haven't seen any spam on f-docs-l.
<jmbuser>	quaid: web interface
<stickster>	Maybe it's my Gmail at work?
<quaid>	stickster: it doesn't land on list, it hits the moderation queue
<stickster>	Oh that.
*	mkranz (n=mkranz at h-217.111.50.179.host.de.colt.net) has joined #fedora-meeting
<quaid>	so it's moderator email that you see
<quaid>	ok, anything else here?
<stickster>	*AH*.  I've been getting a BOATLOAD of that on f-a-b and
f-board-l that I do have to moderate, so fair enough.
<quaid>	stickster: mike figured out a formula for using RHT set spam
assassin headers
<stickster>	quaid: I've been considering simply rejecting email from
non-subscribers, at least on f-board-l.
<quaid>	I just sent him email, once I get the details, i'll publish
and advertise to list admins
<quaid>	stickster: then you lose the people who we ask to reply to the board
<stickster>	s/non-subscribers/non-subscribers who aren't preapproved/
<quaid>	aiui, the SA headers are present and can be used by Mailman
<stickster>	Aha
<stickster>	OK, not to drive this into the ground, sorry all.
<quaid>	I just want to avoid re-doing Mike's figuring here, so I'll
see what he says, then try it on f-docs-l ...etc.
<quaid>	ok, moving on ...
<stickster>	If it works, let me know and I'll follow suit
*	quaid looks back up 9 lines in his buffer
<quaid>	yep
*	quaid has changed the topic to: FDSCo mtg -- Access to wiki/Docs
content and what content belongs there
<quaid>	did we talk about this before?
<quaid>	I thought we agreed that, following the MW move
<quaid>	, we would deprecate Docs and remove ACLs
<quaid>	s/Docs/Docs and Docs/Drafts/
<jmbuser>	quaid: sorry, can you clarify that a bit?
<quaid>	ok
<quaid>	based on the WikiGardening scheme
<quaid>	we have two major areas:
<quaid>	project-specific and content-specific
<quaid>	and within that a set of common trees to layout
<quaid>	e.g.:
<quaid>	Virt/QuickStart/9/Draft
<quaid>	Virt/QuickStart/9/ <== real thing
<quaid>	etc.
*	quaid always gets this order in correct
<quaid>	in other words, we are flattening the structure up a few
levels and removing a Docs/ specific area
<quaid>	because the idea is, wiki = community documentation all by ytself
<jmbuser>	makes perfect sense
<quaid>	ok, I thought we discussed this but I don't really see
anything updated anywhere on that ...
<jmbuser>	Are there any more agenda items we should discuss?
<stickster>	quaid: That's correct, we did agree to remove "Docs/" from
the namespace.
<quaid>	sorry, yes ...
*	stickster dragged off again, sorry.
<quaid>	I was trying to figure some stuff out to no avail
*	quaid has changed the topic to: FDSCo mtg -- content updates
<stickster>	Disagreement last week came with the question of
hierarchies and how useful they are on the wiki.
<stickster>	I can take them or leave them, no biggie.
<quaid>	well, that's true
<quaid>	I guess ...
*	zydoon (n=fzied at 41.225.128.45) has joined #fedora-meeting
<quaid>	I think we should define a standard that people can choose to follow
<stickster>	I think search levels the playing field -- when we have a
wiki where that's worth something :-)
<stickster>	Then hierarchies make sense.
*	quaid has changed the topic to: FDSCo mtg -- wiki structure
<stickster>	heh
<quaid>	stickster: sorry, when do hier. make sense?
<stickster>	Sorry, I skipped Step 2 in my brain.
<stickster>	2. As long as there are Docs people to herd the cats (pages).
<quaid>	a
<quaid>	h
<zydoon>	ZiedFakhfakh
<quaid>	that is sort of a given
<quaid>	we must have more wiki watchers
<stickster>	Well, I use "make sense" loosely
<stickster>	I mean "are no less tolerable than any other method" :-)
<stickster>	Otherwise we're building process for no purpose.
<quaid>	and more watchers == more guidelines so we aren't reteaching
the same stuff
<quaid>	well
<stickster>	*nod
<quaid>	codification of what is already there v. creating from scratch
<quaid>	man!
<quaid>	question:
<stickster>	heh
<quaid>	should Docs own this wiki project management function?
<quaid>	or do we need a Wiki SIG?
*	jwb sighs
*	quaid eyes jwb
<quaid>	speak lad!
*	JSchmitt (n=s4504kr at p54B10E5E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #fedora-meeting
<jwb>	i don't want to place more burden on Docs, but a Wiki SIG sounds
like a failure for using a Wiki at all
<jwb>	Wiki == anyone and everyone can change stuff
<quaid>	right
<quaid>	and as we make it easier to get a wiki account
<quaid>	that means more of that
<quaid>	I guess I don't mind it as a Docs function, myself; it seems
to make sense, in that a wiki == community documentation so is a Docs
function, right?
<jwb>	that's what i was thinking, but i might be misunderstanding your
overall resources and scope
<quaid>	to answer my own question, i think we need to own it and work
it hard and recruit for help whilst enabling the poor buggers
<jwb>	anyway, don't put too much weight to my comments
<quaid>	part of that is encouraging active page "ownership" by
content/subject matter experts
<quaid>	and having an army of fixers and watchers who keep things tidy :)
<quaid>	WikiAntz
<jmbuser>	I think a wiki can be accessible to all and still have areas
that need more structure and control with limited access
<jmbuser>	as well as WikiAntz
*	quaid just wants a CMS for the structure and control parts, but
ph34rs that horse is a'dyin'
<quaid>	*sigh*
<quaid>	this is a list discussion we need to get active on, imo
*	jwb likes the term WikiAntz
<quaid>	so I'm going to move it there, maybe after I clean up some
unclarities in WikiGardening
<quaid>	people could watch pages by alphabet
<quaid>	just set A.* in your watch area to watch all the A-stuff
*	quaid picks [XxYyZz.*]
<quaid>	ok, then, if there are no objections to that motion ?
*	Milanito (n=Matt at 86.72.250.50) has joined #fedora-meeting
*	quaid has changed the topic to: FDSCo mtg -- content updates
<quaid>	I'll do the ones I know for the record, then EOF
<quaid>	* relnotes -- working with mdious, stickster and I are
imparting knowledge; I did BIG updates to the processes last night,
check DocsProject/WorkFlow to get started; DP/Wiki2XML tells all for
now; updates are coming in; push more people to provide more updates
<quaid>	blog, blog, blog
<quaid>	* DUG -- worked with Marc yesterday to get him started with
CVS skel; he has the wiki2xml notes; we're planning next picking a
chapter (Introduction.xml) and doing it one step at a time; this lets
us check the modern how-it's-done-in-this-Moin-version so we can
update e.g. release-notes/devel/xmlbeats
<quaid>	* SMG -- still need feedback to jsmith on the conversion; with
this feedback he may be able to give more help to the wiki2xml notes
<quaid>	EOF
<quaid>	if there is no one to speak for the others ...
<quaid>	I think the AG is in a similar boat as the DUG; we're just
trying to get one done and converted
<stickster>	There are a lot of things hinging on people getting up to
speed on XML conversion issues
<quaid>	DUG addendum -- paul and I have done some edits on there for
finalization; wish there were more people who could do that or learn
to do that final edit
<stickster>	I just found out that I may be unavailable for a lot of
Sunday, because my realtor wants an open house all day.
<stickster>	quaid: +1 that, no one else has signed up even for wordsmithing.
<stickster>	jmbuser: Pls. ensure that ^^ makes it into the minutes.
<quaid>	stickster: got a moment to drop a beg for wordsmithing to the list?
<quaid>	I mean, there are competent editors out there
<stickster>	You got it man
<quaid>	and the StyleGuide is clear
*	stickster composes
<quaid>	in fact, I listed out all the specific areas to check in the
fixes I did last night
*	quaid pulls up a link
*	fcrippa (n=fcrippa at 83.225.5.137) has joined #fedora-meeting
<quaid>	ok, meanwhile ...
*	glezos_afk (n=glezos at ppp201-131.adsl.forthnet.gr) has joined #fedora-meeting
*	quaid has changed the topic to: FDSCo mtg -- Any other bidness?
<glezos_afk>	LUG meeting took longer than usual :/
<jmbuser>	glezos_afk: Greetings
<glezos_afk>	sorry guys
<quaid>	np
<quaid>	stickster:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow#WikitoDocBookXML
*	stickster does a beg
<stickster>	OK, well I missed that part, but the beg was for
low-hanging fruit anyway.
*	glezos_afk is now known as glezos
<quaid>	right o
<quaid>	if there is no more to discuss ...
<quaid>	?
*	quaid closing in 10 seconds
<quaid>	5 ...
<quaid>	</meeting>