From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 1 13:28:50 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 06:28:50 -0700 Subject: missing meeting most likely In-Reply-To: <1209573943.13073.112.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1209573943.13073.112.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1209648530.13073.188.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 09:45 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > I'm probably missing the meeting today, going to be without a 'Net > connection until >2000 UTC. > > Agenda is updated and summary from last week are available, if y'all > want to continue on without me. :) I also lost my irc host over that timeframe, so don't have any logs of what did or did not occur. Did anyone meet? Can you post the irclog for me? I can work through it for the summary, if needed. -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fab at fedoraproject.org Thu May 1 14:21:13 2008 From: fab at fedoraproject.org (Fabian Affolter) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 16:21:13 +0200 Subject: Flyer Message-ID: <4819D1D9.4040304@fedoraproject.org> Hi all, This morning I was thinking about flyers to give away during events. So far if an ambassador need flyers [1] she/he have to made those by her/himself. You guys have a lot of skills and I think that you can ease this process by providing the framework to create them through DocBook. My dream is to have a flyer in different language (translated with help of the Fedora L10N teams and transifex) which can easily generate by the community or download from somewhere in the wished language. No pain about legal stuff, all links are current, no worries about the logo. Just generate/download it, print it (at home, at your office, or at a print shop), and you are ready to go :-) I think that during the first steps Doc is the most important part. Of course only if you think that it be valuable to work on such a mini project. Later there have to be a collaboration with Marketing, Ambassadors, Artwork, and Legal I guess. Kind regards, Fabian [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Flyer From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu May 1 20:32:25 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 23:32:25 +0300 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-04-30 IRC Log Message-ID: <9d2c731f0805011332m7844a41wa6e1ccaba4eabc3a@mail.gmail.com> I will chair the meeting in quaid's absence Roll Call JohnBabich EricChristensen Anyone else? * tw2113 has his desktop screenshot up on the site Agenda is at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings * jmbuser thinks this will be a short meeting * Sparks agrees First agenda item: Installation Guide -- all hands on deck Anything to report? * glezos is here as well, sort of. anything around translations, just yell. "All hands on deck" means we need everyone with some free time to work on it The doc is in CVS, and I've done some work on it lately, but not as much as I'd like to. Unfortunately, my free time for Docs is not what it used to be. There are two documents that, if you ask me, are immediately EPIC FAIL if they're not ready for release. Do we have a link to this doc? 1. Release Notes 2. Installation Guide Sparks: it's in CVS. * Sparks is a little shady on the CVS stuff still. * ftales (i=ftales at tepee.us) has joined #fedora-meeting We really should have everyone get knowledgeable about CVS. It's quite easy to learn * Sparks agrees. mdious was up and working on it after just a couple of hours of hanging out here. I was inspired by quaid's message. Working with any sort of team pretty much requires some sort of source code management system There are two that are worthwhile to learn in Fedora, IYAM: CVS and git. CVS is the "old fogey," still in use all over the place git is the "new hotness," and is infinitely more powerful but also a little harder to understand. What needs to happen is: 1. People need to find either a virtual guest machine or a real box, and have it in a setup where they can run the installation program 2. Compare the installation to the IG's contents 3. Revise the IG to match reality. (including documenting new features where found, removing things that are gone, and fixing that which is erroneous) stickster: What time frame are we talking - 1 week, 2 weeks? The release of F9 is May 13 We need to have at least the en_US version ready by then We've already got a real problem on our hands because we have no way to get translations ready by then Release notes are not ready? *chirp chirp* jmbuser: Installation Guide. The release notes are in great shape. * couf joins in * jmbuser relaxes slightly jmbuser: Don't relax yet, a crummy IG is also an EPIC FAIL, AFAIC. stickster: Someone on the mktg list noted a Release Note file that had not been touched since Nov 07 which said something about F9. Sparks: That's a wiki page, not a release note. It's a stub on the wiki intended to be used for (yet another) summary stickster: Okay, just wanted to make sure. OK, I'm done with what I have. I would really like it if people would help with this very important doc, since our previous help deserted us. btw, the Release Notes, as I mentioned, are in GREAT shape. We have 11 fully finished translations and probably a few more by the date of release. We will need to get them published, which I'm hoping couf will help with We can publish the day before and then just 'cvs tag -F LIVE' right before the official releas. *release. yep, I'll be available to do some publishing couf: ROCK ON * mbonnet has quit ("Ex-Chat") * sereinity (n=sereinit at mon69-3-82-235-39-70.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #fedora-meeting I will try my best to get the latest F9 image and follow the steps outlined above for the IG jmbuser: Either Rawhide or the Preview release should suffice There shouldn't be any anaconda feature changes after that, just bug fixes Is anyone else going to step up to help? * wolfy (n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy) has joined #fedora-meeting stickster: Thanks, I'll go for the Preview release You can see where I've done work already by looking at the fedora-docs-commits archives: http://redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-commits But that's not a blocker Fix wherever you see prolems *problems (and try to type better than I do) :-D heh :) * jmbuser has no room to criticize anybody's typing skills jmbuser: What's next on the agenda? Agenda Item 2: UG -- needs final touches and "wordsmithing" F9 / F8 * stickster pokes Mr. Vice Chair ;-) See note about typing skills above :-) F9 is the obvious priority, but only after IG is done this is actually some wiki editing, it's in User_Guide/ on the wiki couf: good - that should help the F9 version that is I'll give that another review imo, and this is from a very fast read, it's really small stuff that needs to be done we should get this ready for XML conversion asap Better 95% ready than 0% published The perfect is the enemy of the good Agenda Item 3: SMG Needs feedback on conversion from CVS to DocBook, as well as some "wordsmithing" I thought the SMG has been "approved" hmm yeah, I was under that impression as well jsmith was doing the conversions a few months ago * mikem23 (n=nnnniiim at nat/redhat/x-a7cfc8735583df25) has joined #fedora-meeting According to last week's minutes... yep, I checked his work in CVS last week, and it was all good * kital has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) No more to do on PackageKit? * glezos is now known as glezos_afk I asked two people to work on that. I don't know if any work has been done on it. Can we go with what we have now? Is PackageKit the default GUI update interface in F9? The SMG is ready minus PackageKit * wolfy (n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy) has left #fedora-meeting ("When I read about the evils of drinking, I gave up reading.") Sparks: +1 * jmbuser is checking on PackageKit We need to document PackageKit but I wouldn't hold up the SMG because of it. feature quote: "Note that PackageKit is not quite ready to replace pup and pirut, but its design does address some issues with Fedora's current package manager, and the active upstream development is also a hopeful sign." Sounds like it's still optional, but the up-and-coming thing Sparks: Yes, PK is the default. And since I'm running Rawhide, I disagree that it's not quite ready :-) * bpepple|lt (n=bpepple|@adsl-69-214-168-157.dsl.wotnoh.ameritech.net) has joined #fedora-meeting * stickster encourages all Fedora contributors to hop into using Rawhide at least by the time of Preview Release Help kill bugs dead! I guess the feature wiki page needs updating * Sparks is having problems with anaconda and thus isn't usign F9 yet * juank_ (n=juanky at 200.114.38.35) has joined #fedora-meeting Moving on... * bashohII has quit ("????????????") Agenda Item 4: Security Guide -- F9 draft coming (rero) Should we be concerned with this before F9 release? Sparks: You can probably do this just by turning on development repos and doing a 'yum upgrade'. Common gotchas apply. Did I hear my name? stickster: Hmmm... jmbuser: The portion of the Security Guide that needed to get out is out. However, it looks... rough... just sitting there by itself. I have made available chapters 1-3 for review. We (a couple of security gurus and myself) went over them today and cleaned them up. Just waiting for the blessing to move them to the non-Draft side of the wiki. At which time I'm going to try to get them into DocBook format. Sparks: location? couf: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide By the way everyone, with respect to working on the IG: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-announce/2008-April/msg00023.html When you look at the TOC on that page... 4.1 is what is released. CVS will be down from 1400-1900 UTC on Saturday. ah, could we move it out of the Drafts section into something like /Security_Guide/F9 Stickster: Thanks for the heads up couf: That is actually where the final pages go. which would make it not a real draft, but as it's on the wiki, it should be thought of as a draft http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Security_Guide/9 is the "final" location correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't everything wiki-wise assumed to be draft? As soon as I get some of the other chapters ready then I'm going to dress it up more. and we choose DocBook as final couf: I think so, however since development started in the wiki and there were a lot of changes being made I was doing a DRAFT and a Final Draft type of separation. ah, sure :) * couf got all confused there * Sparks is always confused How about considering the "final draft" staging for the DocBook final version? I plan on starting the DocBook process soon. jmbuser: yes Any other comments on the SMG? err, the Security Guide? * jmbuser is confused too Any other business (AOB)? well I just raised my hand in the websites meeting to be POC for Docs Excellent choice If nothing else, let's whip the F9 IG and other vital docs into shape in time for the F9 final release Shall we close the meeting? +1 +1 5 4 3 2 Thanks guys 1 From jmbabich at gmail.com Thu May 1 20:39:01 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Thu, 1 May 2008 23:39:01 +0300 Subject: missing meeting most likely In-Reply-To: <1209648530.13073.188.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1209573943.13073.112.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1209648530.13073.188.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0805011339h33cb83f9jde5190806ef293d8@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 1, 2008 at 4:28 PM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-04-30 at 09:45 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > I'm probably missing the meeting today, going to be without a 'Net > > connection until >2000 UTC. > > > > Agenda is updated and summary from last week are available, if y'all > > want to continue on without me. :) > > I also lost my irc host over that timeframe, so don't have any logs of > what did or did not occur. > > Did anyone meet? Can you post the irclog for me? I can work through it > for the summary, if needed. > I moderated the meeting in your absence and just posted the IRC log at http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00002.html I'm about to post it in HTML format. Best Regards, John Babich Vice Chair, FDSCo From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 1 21:56:24 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 01 May 2008 21:56:24 +0000 Subject: Flyer In-Reply-To: <4819D1D9.4040304@fedoraproject.org> References: <4819D1D9.4040304@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1209678984.23714.86.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2008-05-01 at 16:21 +0200, Fabian Affolter wrote: > This morning I was thinking about flyers to give away during events. So > far if an ambassador need flyers [1] she/he have to made those by > her/himself. > > You guys have a lot of skills and I think that you can ease this process > by providing the framework to create them through DocBook. My dream is > to have a flyer in different language (translated with help of the > Fedora L10N teams and transifex) which can easily generate by the > community or download from somewhere in the wished language. No pain > about legal stuff, all links are current, no worries about the logo. > > Just generate/download it, print it (at home, at your office, or at a > print shop), and you are ready to go :-) > > I think that during the first steps Doc is the most important part. Of > course only if you think that it be valuable to work on such a mini > project. Later there have to be a collaboration with Marketing, > Ambassadors, Artwork, and Legal I guess. I have one I created for our LUG but it is pretty much distro-neutral. It should be adaptable to be more specific if desired. http://fredlug.googlegroups.com/web/one-sheet.odt -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat May 3 23:52:19 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 03 May 2008 16:52:19 -0700 Subject: Security Guide, Chapters 1-3 ready for review and editing In-Reply-To: <4817E4AD.4080105@christensenplace.us> References: <26982094.226381209498121915.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> <563f345d0804291346w10b3505br8cc5ce8a4fe4be74@mail.gmail.com> <563f345d0804291458j494ba189gd77cd6cc02c94ba7@mail.gmail.com> <48179CCF.3060708@christensenplace.us> <563f345d0804291910v6b341638jc6c3df06912b2a2f@mail.gmail.com> <4817E4AD.4080105@christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <1209858739.19895.95.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, 2008-04-29 at 23:17 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > [1] > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide/SoftwareMaintenance This is a great idea. Remember to look for where content exists in the Software Management Guide (SMG). You can opt to either pull in modular XML files or just hyperlink to it. If you find yourself covering any software management basics, work on pushing them up in to the canonical SMG and make the SecG's chapter like an add-on. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From keith at henkell.net Sun May 4 01:32:55 2008 From: keith at henkell.net (Keith Henkell) Date: Sat, 3 May 2008 21:32:55 -0400 Subject: Tasks to do? Message-ID: <563f345d0805031832s24bee6f3v132080b0f814c711@mail.gmail.com> Is there a list of stuff that needs to get done? I'd love to be able to grab a task from a list when I have an unplanned hour or two to spend (like tonight). Is there anything like the equivalent to the discussion page in wikipedia/media wiki? It might make things easier for newbies like me if we can look at a page with notes on what's been done and what still needs to be done especially if it is stored with the actual document. From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sun May 4 02:47:55 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sun, 4 May 2008 12:47:55 +1000 Subject: Tasks to do? In-Reply-To: <563f345d0805031832s24bee6f3v132080b0f814c711@mail.gmail.com> References: <563f345d0805031832s24bee6f3v132080b0f814c711@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0805031947j71ecb9afoe8537db4f8f21d4c@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, May 4, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Keith Henkell wrote: > Is there a list of stuff that needs to get done? I'd love to be able > to grab a task from a list when I have an unplanned hour or two to > spend (like tonight). > > Is there anything like the equivalent to the discussion page in > wikipedia/media wiki? It might make things easier for newbies like me > if we can look at a page with notes on what's been done and what > still needs to be done especially if it is stored with the actual > document. Hi Keith, I think they were looking for people for the security guide: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-April/msg00105.html Also for the desktop user guide: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-March/msg00085.html http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/DesktopUserGuide?action=show&redirect=Desktop+User+Guide%2F8%2FDraft Hope that helps... Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 5 00:51:57 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 17:51:57 -0700 Subject: Tasks to do? In-Reply-To: <563f345d0805031832s24bee6f3v132080b0f814c711@mail.gmail.com> References: <563f345d0805031832s24bee6f3v132080b0f814c711@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1209948717.19895.146.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sat, 2008-05-03 at 21:32 -0400, Keith Henkell wrote: > Is there a list of stuff that needs to get done? I'd love to be able > to grab a task from a list when I have an unplanned hour or two to > spend (like tonight). > > Is there anything like the equivalent to the discussion page in > wikipedia/media wiki? It might make things easier for newbies like me > if we can look at a page with notes on what's been done and what > still needs to be done especially if it is stored with the actual > document. We're a bit unorganized on that still, since each document can have any number of tasks, while each overall document itself is a higher level task. Here is the canonical task location, which is a little out of date but relevant. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks Each guide that is nearing publication has a checklist of editing, such as the bottom of this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide/9 This could use a checklist, maybe even a migration to the new namespace (wiki/Administration_Guide/9): http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue May 6 23:24:29 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 09:24:29 +1000 Subject: GCC and Eclipse beats hashed out Message-ID: <95f1114b0805061624i3acfae2dwe6a695270d04cf8b@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/BeatStatus, are there any reasons for the following being hashed out: ##|| [:Docs/Beats/Devel/Tools/GCC] ##|| [:Docs/Beats/Devel/Tools/Eclipse] There were quite a few changes missing for the Eclipse section in the GA release notes... Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 7 16:39:56 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 16:39:56 +0000 Subject: GCC and Eclipse beats hashed out In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0805061624i3acfae2dwe6a695270d04cf8b@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0805061624i3acfae2dwe6a695270d04cf8b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1210178396.7392.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hm, there shouldn't have been. I think those were hashed out because in the XML, everything under Devel/ becomes part of the Devel.xml file, so there's no sense in tracking them all separately while we were working on editing the beats together. Are those changes in the XML now? Paul On Wed, 2008-05-07 at 09:24 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi, > > On http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/BeatStatus, are there any > reasons for the following being hashed out: > > ##|| [:Docs/Beats/Devel/Tools/GCC] > ##|| [:Docs/Beats/Devel/Tools/Eclipse] > > There were quite a few changes missing for the Eclipse section in the > GA release notes... > > Cheers, > > Murray. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB > Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) > sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] > -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed May 7 21:58:02 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 07:58:02 +1000 Subject: GCC and Eclipse beats hashed out In-Reply-To: <1210178396.7392.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <95f1114b0805061624i3acfae2dwe6a695270d04cf8b@mail.gmail.com> <1210178396.7392.100.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <95f1114b0805071458u2de33b6fo2f70855c2ae9d22c@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 2:39 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Hm, there shouldn't have been. I think those were hashed out because in > the XML, everything under Devel/ becomes part of the Devel.xml file, so > there's no sense in tracking them all separately while we were working > on editing the beats together. Are those changes in the XML now? I hope so ;) I'm quite confident I got them all in before updating the po files yesterday. Thanks, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From keith at henkell.net Thu May 8 12:38:33 2008 From: keith at henkell.net (Keith Henkell) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:38:33 -0400 Subject: Security guide chapt 5 Message-ID: <563f345d0805080538x4140f3faw3c40d8f62f2e6698@mail.gmail.com> Eric, I am editing chapter 5 of the security guide on the train (I forgot to mention it when I copied it this morning.). I should have it back in before 10 us eastern time. Is there anything else in the Security guide that needs work? Keith From eric at christensenplace.us Thu May 8 12:50:39 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 08:50:39 -0400 Subject: Security guide chapt 5 In-Reply-To: <563f345d0805080538x4140f3faw3c40d8f62f2e6698@mail.gmail.com> References: <563f345d0805080538x4140f3faw3c40d8f62f2e6698@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20080508125039.GA4947@eric.christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Good Morning Keith, I'm going to work on Chapter 4 (Encryption) this morning in between other taskers and hopefully that will close the gap. Thanks for working on Chapter 5 (Software Maintenance). That should be really interesting. Eric On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 08:38:33AM -0400, Keith Henkell wrote: > Eric, > > I am editing chapter 5 of the security guide on the train (I forgot to > mention it when I copied it this morning.). I should have it back in > before 10 us eastern time. > > Is there anything else in the Security guide that needs work? > > Keith > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIIvceL5V8yddJCO0RAoLJAJ4uVeaVTR3eC8jxqQAYaZjzNwD88QCeMSaY lNKS6S1/VODEq+xHsbRsZjY= =s722 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From keith at henkell.net Thu May 8 14:05:11 2008 From: keith at henkell.net (Keith Henkell) Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 10:05:11 -0400 Subject: Security guide chapt 5 In-Reply-To: <20080508125039.GA4947@eric.christensenplace.us> References: <563f345d0805080538x4140f3faw3c40d8f62f2e6698@mail.gmail.com> <20080508125039.GA4947@eric.christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <563f345d0805080705t85d41a1y5874386c6de7a8ae@mail.gmail.com> Eric, It is back in. Is this document going to be primarily a Fedora 9 document? If it is going to be more general, I can add details on how to adjust the auto updates for older versions later today (I have only access to 9 on my laptop.) Keith On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Eric H Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Good Morning Keith, > I'm going to work on Chapter 4 (Encryption) this morning in between other taskers and hopefully that will close the gap. Thanks for working on Chapter 5 (Software Maintenance). That should be really interesting. > > Eric > > > > > > On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 08:38:33AM -0400, Keith Henkell wrote: > > Eric, > > > > I am editing chapter 5 of the security guide on the train (I forgot to > > mention it when I copied it this morning.). I should have it back in > > before 10 us eastern time. > > > > Is there anything else in the Security guide that needs work? > > > > Keith > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIIvceL5V8yddJCO0RAoLJAJ4uVeaVTR3eC8jxqQAYaZjzNwD88QCeMSaY > lNKS6S1/VODEq+xHsbRsZjY= > =s722 > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From mkim at redhat.com Fri May 9 00:10:50 2008 From: mkim at redhat.com (Michelle Kim) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 10:10:50 +1000 Subject: Docs toolchain In-Reply-To: <1207744916.5428.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1207278188.4750.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1207323445.4421.8.camel@hockey.jaredsmith.net> <1207356700.6315.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1207360777.3236.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1207407250.4585.172.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1207588953.18157.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47FC556C.3020208@redhat.com> <1207744916.5428.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4823968A.7060507@redhat.com> are we still having the docs toolchain IRC meeting as we discussed? It seems finding the good time for everyone can be a challenge, and now we have publican-list set up, it might be easier to discuss things on the mailing list. But if anyone prefer having a regular IRC chat to discuss docs toolchain and publican, I am all up for helding weekly or bi weekly IRC meeting. Please let me know. Cheers Michelle Paul W. Frields ? ?: > On Wed, 2008-04-09 at 15:34 +1000, Michelle Kim wrote: > >> Paul W. Frields ? ?: >> >>> I'm open to changing the date, no problem. The folks in Red Hat BNE who >>> need to be involved should let us know here if that's a problem for >>> them. So, a new primary meet time could be: >>> >>> Saturday, 10 May 2008, 0100 UTC/1100 Brisbane >>> = Friday, 09 May 2008, 2100 EDT/1800 PDT >>> >>> Anyone? >>> >>> >> Folks in Brisbane told me that they can't make it during the day on Saturday and I understand nobody wants to be working on the weekend. >> Can we make it on Weekdays instead? Friday 11am would be better than Saturday 11am. >> > > I am fine with a Friday (BNE)/Thursday (US) time. I don't think this is > really an "average docs user" conference, because we're going to be > talking about how the Makefile internals work and what technical issues > need to be resolved to integrate Publican into our Docs toolchain (along > with l10n issues). People who aren't experienced in how all that works > will probably glean just as much from the logs, which of course we can > post here per usual. > > That's just my opinion... suggestions? > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Fri May 9 01:37:38 2008 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 09:37:38 +0800 Subject: Regarding doc: readme-burning-isos Message-ID: <76e72f800805081837n10109f51hd7450b7bb3cc823c@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I think the doc needs some update in "burning software" section: 1. first link http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm does not work anymore 2. winxp has its own command to burn ISO to disk Windows 2003 Resource Kit Tools (rktools.exe) http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/e/c/8ec3a7d8-05b4-440a-a71e-ca3ee25fe057/rktools.exe And an instance (on winxp sp3 applied) byuan at szpc527g /usr/local/bin $ ln -s /cygdrive/c/Program\ Files/Windows\ Resource\ Kits/Tools/cdburn.exe byuan at szpc527g /usr/local/bin $ which cdburn /usr/local/bin/cdburn byuan at szpc527g /usr/local/bin $ cdburn Usage: cdburn -erase [image [options]] cdburn image [options] Options: -erase Erases the disk before burning (valid for R/W only) -sao Writes the image out in "session at once", or cue sheet, mode (default is "track at once") -speed Speed of burn, or 'max' for maximum speed -imagehaspostgap Use if your image already contains a 150 sector postgap The [image] must be provided unless the -erase flag is set. If both an image and -erase are provided, the media will be erased prior to burning the image to the disc. byuan at szpc527g /cygdrive/d/Downloads/Fedora $ cdburn.exe g: Fedora-9-i386-DVD.iso -speed max Requesting burn at maximum speed Number of blocks in ISO image is 1aad9b Finished Writing <= here it was a progress number from 0% to 100% during operation Synchronizing Cache: burn successful! -- bbbush ^_^ From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri May 9 09:30:28 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 12:30:28 +0300 Subject: Regarding doc: readme-burning-isos In-Reply-To: <76e72f800805081837n10109f51hd7450b7bb3cc823c@mail.gmail.com> References: <76e72f800805081837n10109f51hd7450b7bb3cc823c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0805090230u2ff125c1y9b5e35ee295e4964@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:37 AM, Yuan Yijun wrote: > Hi, > > I think the doc needs some update in "burning software" section: > First of all, thanks for taking the time to give feedback on this document. > 1. first link http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm does > not work anymore > This link still works. I used this link to download the Windows Vista version of this utility just a few hours ago. It's possible that this link was down when you attempted to reach it. Having said that, the document should be revised to note that there are different versions required for different versions of Windows. > 2. winxp has its own command to burn ISO to disk > > Windows 2003 Resource Kit Tools (rktools.exe) > http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/e/c/8ec3a7d8-05b4-440a-a71e-ca3ee25fe057/rktools.exe > > And an instance (on winxp sp3 applied) > > Thanks for the link to rktools. Please be aware that it may not be possible to update this in time for the upcoming Fedora 9 release. It should definitely be revised in time for Fedora 10. Best regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 9 11:32:21 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:32:21 +0000 Subject: Regarding doc: readme-burning-isos In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0805090230u2ff125c1y9b5e35ee295e4964@mail.gmail.com> References: <76e72f800805081837n10109f51hd7450b7bb3cc823c@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0805090230u2ff125c1y9b5e35ee295e4964@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1210332741.5670.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-05-09 at 12:30 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:37 AM, Yuan Yijun wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I think the doc needs some update in "burning software" section: > > > > First of all, thanks for taking the time to give feedback on this document. > > > 1. first link http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm does > > not work anymore > > > > This link still works. I used this link to download the Windows Vista > version of this utility just a few hours ago. It's possible that this > link was down when you attempted to reach it. > > Having said that, the document should be revised to note that there > are different versions required for different versions of Windows. > > > 2. winxp has its own command to burn ISO to disk > > > > Windows 2003 Resource Kit Tools (rktools.exe) > > http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/e/c/8ec3a7d8-05b4-440a-a71e-ca3ee25fe057/rktools.exe > > > > And an instance (on winxp sp3 applied) > > > > > > Thanks for the link to rktools. > > Please be aware that it may not be possible to update this in time for > the upcoming Fedora 9 release. It should definitely be revised in time > for Fedora 10. John, is this something you feel you could update, provided the steps shown above? The document content is in CVS under the 'readme-burning-isos' module. You should be able to follow the existing text for wording. Although this can't make it to the version we include on discs for F9, we could publish it to the web site as soon as it was ready. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 9 11:40:22 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 11:40:22 +0000 Subject: Docs toolchain In-Reply-To: <4823968A.7060507@redhat.com> References: <1207278188.4750.34.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1207323445.4421.8.camel@hockey.jaredsmith.net> <1207356700.6315.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1207360777.3236.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1207407250.4585.172.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1207588953.18157.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> <47FC556C.3020208@redhat.com> <1207744916.5428.93.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4823968A.7060507@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1210333222.5670.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2008-05-09 at 10:10 +1000, Michelle Kim wrote: > are we still having the docs toolchain IRC meeting as we discussed? > > It seems finding the good time for everyone can be a challenge, and > now we have publican-list set up, it might be easier to discuss things > on the mailing list. > But if anyone prefer having a regular IRC chat to discuss docs > toolchain and publican, I am all up for helding weekly or bi weekly > IRC meeting. Please let me know. Michelle, I'm sorry about the scheduling -- with the F9 release slipping until Tuesday 13-May, I completely forgot to slip this meeting. I think the idea was to look at the Docs Project toolchain with the following goals in mind: ?1. Fix lingering problems 2. Make enhancements for usability 3. Integrate publican 4. Other? Let's see if we can reschedule this for: Friday 23 May 0100 UTC / 11:00 Brisbane = Thursday 22 May 9:00pm US/Eastern / 6:00pm US/Pacific (I would have taken the 16th/15th, but I seem to have a prior engagement then.) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmbabich at gmail.com Fri May 9 14:07:41 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 17:07:41 +0300 Subject: Regarding doc: readme-burning-isos In-Reply-To: <1210332741.5670.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <76e72f800805081837n10109f51hd7450b7bb3cc823c@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0805090230u2ff125c1y9b5e35ee295e4964@mail.gmail.com> <1210332741.5670.18.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0805090707t35dd1837k9751098047e2fd2d@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 2:32 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, 2008-05-09 at 12:30 +0300, John Babich wrote: >> On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 4:37 AM, Yuan Yijun wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > I think the doc needs some update in "burning software" section: >> > >> >> First of all, thanks for taking the time to give feedback on this document. >> >> > 1. first link http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm does >> > not work anymore >> > >> >> This link still works. I used this link to download the Windows Vista >> version of this utility just a few hours ago. It's possible that this >> link was down when you attempted to reach it. >> >> Having said that, the document should be revised to note that there >> are different versions required for different versions of Windows. >> >> > 2. winxp has its own command to burn ISO to disk >> > >> > Windows 2003 Resource Kit Tools (rktools.exe) >> > http://download.microsoft.com/download/8/e/c/8ec3a7d8-05b4-440a-a71e-ca3ee25fe057/rktools.exe >> > >> > And an instance (on winxp sp3 applied) >> > >> > >> >> Thanks for the link to rktools. >> >> Please be aware that it may not be possible to update this in time for >> the upcoming Fedora 9 release. It should definitely be revised in time >> for Fedora 10. > > John, is this something you feel you could update, provided the steps > shown above? The document content is in CVS under the > 'readme-burning-isos' module. You should be able to follow the existing > text for wording. Although this can't make it to the version we include > on discs for F9, we could publish it to the web site as soon as it was > ready. > Paul: I'm willing to give it a try. John B. From bbbush.yuan at gmail.com Fri May 9 23:06:12 2008 From: bbbush.yuan at gmail.com (Yuan Yijun) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 07:06:12 +0800 Subject: Regarding doc: readme-burning-isos In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0805090230u2ff125c1y9b5e35ee295e4964@mail.gmail.com> References: <76e72f800805081837n10109f51hd7450b7bb3cc823c@mail.gmail.com> <9d2c731f0805090230u2ff125c1y9b5e35ee295e4964@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <76e72f800805091606l3f2e1d4dq4020d1ab3df408cd@mail.gmail.com> 2008/5/9 John Babich : > >> 1. first link http://isorecorder.alexfeinman.com/isorecorder.htm does >> not work anymore >> > > This link still works. I used this link to download the Windows Vista > version of this utility just a few hours ago. It's possible that this > link was down when you attempted to reach it. > > Having said that, the document should be revised to note that there > are different versions required for different versions of Windows. > cannot believe it.. I can open it when through Tor! -- bbbush ^_^ From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sat May 10 09:41:16 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 19:41:16 +1000 Subject: zero-day release notes updates to docs.fp.o Message-ID: <95f1114b0805100241n2640eebdp7516ff693cfb0b9c@mail.gmail.com> Hi, For the 12th of May, what does "Add zero-day release-notes update to docs.fp.o" mean? Also, the following content was added to Beats/WebServers: --- Squid Squid has been updated from 2.6 to 3.0.STABLE2. The configuration files are not entirely backwards compatible, for details see: http://www.squid-cache.org/Versions/v3/3.0/squid-3.0.STABLE2-RELEASENOTES.html Due to a bug, the transparent proxy doesn't work. This should be fixed after a first update. --- Should this be added to the English XML? Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sat May 10 10:40:25 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 20:40:25 +1000 Subject: zero-day release notes updates to docs.fp.o In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0805100241n2640eebdp7516ff693cfb0b9c@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0805100241n2640eebdp7516ff693cfb0b9c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0805100340p37926014h6f688855702bdb3a@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 10, 2008 at 7:41 PM, Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi, > > For the 12th of May, what does "Add zero-day release-notes update to > docs.fp.o" mean? > > Also, the following content was added to Beats/WebServers: > > --- > > Squid > > Squid has been updated from 2.6 to 3.0.STABLE2. The configuration > files are not entirely backwards compatible, for details see: > > http://www.squid-cache.org/Versions/v3/3.0/squid-3.0.STABLE2-RELEASENOTES.html > > Due to a bug, the transparent proxy doesn't work. This should be fixed > after a first update. This has been added, and new pot/po files committed. Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon May 12 06:37:33 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 16:37:33 +1000 Subject: accidentally updated pot and po for documentation-guide Message-ID: <95f1114b0805112337w1784fa47vb6d71cc7c2440e76@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I accidentally ran "make pot po", then committed the changes for the documentation-guide. I misunderstood something, as this should have been done for the translation-quick-start-guide. Sorry for any problems this caused :( Regards, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From eric at christensenplace.us Mon May 12 10:20:40 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 06:20:40 -0400 Subject: Security guide chapt 5 In-Reply-To: <563f345d0805080705t85d41a1y5874386c6de7a8ae@mail.gmail.com> References: <563f345d0805080538x4140f3faw3c40d8f62f2e6698@mail.gmail.com> <20080508125039.GA4947@eric.christensenplace.us> <563f345d0805080705t85d41a1y5874386c6de7a8ae@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <482819F8.8070809@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Keith, We can make it general and add specific items for each version as necessary. The way the directory tree is built if we need to make a specific page for a specific version we can. Eric Keith Henkell wrote: | Eric, | | It is back in. Is this document going to be primarily a Fedora 9 | document? If it is going to be more general, I can add details on how | to adjust the auto updates for older versions later today (I have only | access to 9 on my laptop.) | | Keith | | On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 8:50 AM, Eric H Christensen | wrote: |> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- |> Hash: SHA1 |> |> Good Morning Keith, |> I'm going to work on Chapter 4 (Encryption) this morning in between other taskers and hopefully that will close the gap. Thanks for working on Chapter 5 (Software Maintenance). That should be really interesting. |> |> Eric |> |> |> |> |> |> On Thu, May 08, 2008 at 08:38:33AM -0400, Keith Henkell wrote: |> > Eric, |> > |> > I am editing chapter 5 of the security guide on the train (I forgot to |> > mention it when I copied it this morning.). I should have it back in |> > before 10 us eastern time. |> > |> > Is there anything else in the Security guide that needs work? |> > |> > Keith |> > |> > -- |> > fedora-docs-list mailing list |> > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |> > To unsubscribe: |> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list |> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- |> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) |> |> iD8DBQFIIvceL5V8yddJCO0RAoLJAJ4uVeaVTR3eC8jxqQAYaZjzNwD88QCeMSaY |> lNKS6S1/VODEq+xHsbRsZjY= |> =s722 |> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |> |> -- |> fedora-docs-list mailing list |> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |> To unsubscribe: |> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list |> | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIKBn3L5V8yddJCO0RAhLpAJ0dLaezTii+eldfmjV9+fsaGTgTPACeLyVe rj7TWy+nZkKI0vBaM4RPO00= =/QfE -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 12 16:07:28 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 21:37:28 +0530 Subject: Missing links Message-ID: <48286B40.8090500@fedoraproject.org> Hi, The first hit while search for Fedora installation guide is http://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-install-guide-en/ That gives the wrong impression that the guide is not maintained anymore. Not drafts section in http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ We need to link to http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/index.html Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 12 20:56:07 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 20:56:07 +0000 Subject: Missing links In-Reply-To: <48286B40.8090500@fedoraproject.org> References: <48286B40.8090500@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1210625767.10256.48.camel@victoria> On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 21:37 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi, > > The first hit while search for Fedora installation guide is > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-install-guide-en/ > > That gives the wrong impression that the guide is not maintained anymore. There's a link on that page that directs people to newer versions. Is there any value in redirecting that page via HTTP to: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/ ? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at redhat.com Mon May 12 21:00:57 2008 From: sundaram at redhat.com (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 02:30:57 +0530 Subject: Missing links In-Reply-To: <1210625767.10256.48.camel@victoria> References: <48286B40.8090500@fedoraproject.org> <1210625767.10256.48.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <4828B009.1050604@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2008-05-12 at 21:37 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hi, >> >> The first hit while search for Fedora installation guide is >> >> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/fedora-install-guide-en/ >> >> That gives the wrong impression that the guide is not maintained anymore. > > There's a link on that page that directs people to newer versions. Is > there any value in redirecting that page via HTTP to: > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/ I think so, yes. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 12 23:09:15 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 12 May 2008 23:09:15 +0000 Subject: Bugzilla text Message-ID: <1210633755.10256.60.camel@victoria> John, in response to your request earlier this evening, here's some text for the Bugzilla page: = = = = = Bugzilla News ------------- Fedora 9 Now Available The Fedora Project is pleased to announce the release of Fedora 9 (Sulphur). ?To download Fedora, visit http://get.fedoraproject.org/ . For a summary of what is new and improved, refer to the Fedora 9 Release Overview[1]. For in-depth coverage of the release, refer to the Release Notes[2]. [1] ?http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/9/ReleaseOverview [2] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/ To join Fedora, get involved, and help advance the future of free and open source software, visit http://join.fedoraproject.org/ . = = = = = -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 13 14:42:26 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 13 May 2008 10:42:26 -0400 Subject: Release Notes update 2 Message-ID: <1210689746.11561.12.camel@victoria> I pushed out fedora-release-notes-9.0.1-1 this morning. That's what's going into the update pile for F9. 1. We need to get the new content pushed to the web site and retagged LIVE. 2. On Friday or Saturday, we should resync the content from the wiki to XML, and let L10N know about it with, say, a Tuesday deadline (should be very small changse). 3. On Wednesday, we should pick up the changes, and push the publication to the web site. 4. At about the same time, we should get a new fedora-release-notes-9.0.2-1 package together. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed May 14 14:06:22 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 10:06:22 -0400 Subject: Security Guide: Encryption Chapter ready for editing Message-ID: <20080514140621.GA17383@eric.christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Encryption chapter [1] of the Security Guide is ready for editing. I want to clean it up more but I don't want to hold up the entire publication on it. Thanks, Eric [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide/Encryption -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFIKvHdL5V8yddJCO0RAgShAJ4hEdKxq3HfqxbhfIIY0ImB9QxZzwCfdUVg nw6VSbi0YFCGL6eMhx7xphI= =qJYo -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 14 20:49:02 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:49:02 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-05-14 Summary Message-ID: <1210798142.24258.57.camel@calliope.phig.org> Attendees: ----------- John Babich Eric Christensen Jared Smith Dimitris Glezos PaulFrields Bart Couvreur Summary: --------- We discussed one main item and pushed all others to the next meeting. The topic was: temporary and potentially permanent focus and process changes to how we do documentation. What we focus on and how we do it. The following points were unanimously passed by FDSCo; some subsequent discussion points were folded into these final set of points. i. FDSCo agrees to turn the attention of this project to content that helps Fedora contributors. This is not done as a mandate/order but a statement of intent for the project. People can and should continue on whatever content is of interest to them and only pitch in where they want. ii. Work on managing the wiki as "gardeners" with one person designated to make the project happen (the Chief Wiki Gardener) and many hands welcome (Wiki Garden Apprentices and Garden Gnomes). Their job is to make the wiki a tame and happy place for all, however that has to happen. This includes resolving MediaWiki to work with Transifex and whatever. iii. Push all DocBook XML guides out to be stand-alone projects on fedorahosted.org to use whatever toolchain they want; we can continue the docs-common tools (within fh.o?) and decide to swap in or make publican optional. iii.b Decide the best fate for the release notes in a separate discussion; cf. docs-common as well -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 14 20:50:05 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 13:50:05 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-05-14 IRC log Message-ID: <1210798205.24258.59.camel@calliope.phig.org> HTML log: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20080514 12:03 < quaid> 12:03 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo hanging out -- roll call and opening howdies, then congratulations and all that on another fine release, the kittens are safe once again 12:03 < quaid> I is still here 12:04 < jmbuser> JohnBabich 12:04 < Sparks> EricChristensen 12:04 < jsmith> JaredSmith (present but brain-dead) 12:04 -!- glezos [n=glezos at fedora/glezos] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:05 < quaid> glezos is here too I rekcon 12:05 < stickster> PaulFrields 12:05 < quaid> so, howdy, everyone 12:05 < quaid> congrats on another fine gold ISO to fall from the heavens 12:06 * jmbuser is still downloading the LiveCD 12:06 < stickster> Hear, hear 12:06 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr at fedora/JSchmitt] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:07 < quaid> ok, then 12:07 < jmbuser> +1 12:07 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo deciding stuff -- What is Docs focus? Can we handle a switch to focus on Fedora contributors first? What does this mean? Are people interested in this? Would they be upset if other active resources were to focus on contributors instead of end-user docs? 12:07 < quaid> ok, you may say ... wtf is this? 12:07 < jmbuser> ?? 12:08 < quaid> but folks around here have been talking about trying to resolve our own contributor problems before user problems 12:08 < quaid> that is, there is a world of help for users that is nearly good enough for all they need, and we are but a drop in that bucket, Fedora brand or not. 12:08 < jmbuser> true 12:08 < quaid> but the contributors are a finite group with a finite set of problems that we could really help give a better life. 12:08 < stickster> So this is something I feel strongly about. 12:09 < quaid> so, and I am repeating a suggestion from someone else, we could just decide to pull away anyone who is interested in talking this situation 12:09 < stickster> Let me take off my FPL hat... and put on a purely Docs guy hat. 12:09 < quaid> forget all the guides and all that for a while, etc. 12:09 < quaid> stickster: go ahead, please, as the suggestor :) 12:09 < stickster> I don't want to interrupt rudely, sorry 12:10 < stickster> But by the same token, I want to take the blame for this idea because it may be... controversial. 12:10 < stickster> I feel that we in Docs have been laboring a LONG, LOOONNNNG time to get some basic user documentation done. 12:10 < stickster> And that documentation already exists in so many places. 12:11 < stickster> The licensing on those other docs elsewhere keep us from just using them, so we are basically *FORCED* to do a "NIH" (not invented here) thing and redo everything from scratch ourselves. 12:11 < stickster> What we *really* need to do, if you ask me -- 12:11 * quaid askes 12:11 < stickster> is to concentrate on writing documentation that is going to help other people contribute to Fedora. 12:11 < quaid> aka fix our own leaky roof, shod our own children 12:12 < stickster> Right, and not just for Docs, but for other groups as well. 12:12 < stickster> You might think to yourself, that this sounds really like cleaning up the wiki and doing a good job tying things together there. 12:12 < stickster> And I'm saying -- well, yes. 12:13 < stickster> We have always been of two minds about the wiki 12:13 < stickster> But the truth is, with the single sign-on coming, the wiki will be easier than ever for new contributors. 12:13 < stickster> Get an account, start editing the wiki right away. 12:13 < stickster> And that's all well and good 12:13 < stickster> But the REAL audience for Fedora is the CONTRIBUTOR audience. 12:13 < jmbuser> +1 12:14 < stickster> We need to empower them to GET INVOLVED. 12:14 < stickster> To work on PACKAGING. 12:14 < stickster> On MARKETING. 12:14 < stickster> On WEBSITES/INFRASTRUCTURE. 12:14 < stickster> On DOCS. (!) 12:14 < stickster> Those are the people that keep Fedora alive. 12:14 -!- J5 [n=quintice at 66.187.234.199] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:14 < stickster> The contributors are our audience. 12:15 < quaid> I meant he bigger roof, foshure! 12:15 < jsmith> +1 12:15 < stickster> We love users, and are overjoyed we have milliions of them. 12:15 < stickster> But users in and of themselves do not power FOSS just through using it -- contributors who give something back, do. 12:15 < stickster> That could be as little as filing one bug -- meaning any user can be a contributor. 12:15 < quaid> I think we'll find that after we do this, the wiki will work right and we can shepherd new contributors to work within some of the docs we've defined 12:16 < stickster> But only if he knows *how* to do it. 12:16 < stickster> quaid: I think it's going to help a lot. 12:16 < quaid> content == screencasts, written, translated 12:16 < quaid> my recommendation is ... 12:16 * couf here 12:16 < stickster> There's also another audience to think about -- not just the hobbyist, but the independent software vendors (ISVs), companies, and so on 12:16 < quaid> couf: catch up on that, eh? :) 12:16 < stickster> We need to help them get involved in Fedora too. 12:16 < quaid> right, this helps them. 12:16 < couf> quaid: busy :) 12:16 < kital> good 12:17 < quaid> ok, so, two ideas I propose: 12:17 < stickster> So what I'm recommending is that we ask ourselves for any piece of Documentation, "Is this something that's unique to Fedora?" 12:17 < stickster> If it's 90% not, then the document should be, well, 90% shorter. 12:17 < quaid> stickster: but we use that filter anyway ... 12:18 < quaid> and that is more stage 2 12:18 < quaid> where it is obvious that, how to work within Fedora, that is 90% Fedora specific 12:19 * quaid holds back proposals for more discussion ... 12:19 * couf does a +1 to the general suggestion 12:19 * stickster waits to see if he put everyone to sleep. 12:19 < jmbuser> stickster: I see the value in what you are saying 12:20 < jmbuser> Teach people to fish instead of making fish sandwiches 12:20 < couf> the one thing about this is, we can't know everything about everything in Fedora 12:21 < stickster> couf: Well, that goes for all Linux too. Thus my argument against writing big, general guides. 12:21 < couf> so that would mean tutoring, mentoring from people of thoose groups, and they've goot heaps of load too 12:21 < stickster> It very well may be that what I'm proposing comes down to the Docs team turning into a very specific, very targeted 12:21 < stickster> force for scouring the new wiki, and organizing it before we take on any tasks beyond the Release Notes and the Installation Guide. 12:21 < stickster> And both of *THOSE* could easily turn into online living things as well I suppose. 12:22 < quaid> I've been going around saying for the last few weeks that I want to be the new Wiki Gardener 12:22 < couf> right 12:22 < stickster> And if people want to do guides, maybe we should think about moving those off to fedorahosted.org to develop as independent projects 12:22 < quaid> with all that the metaphor implies 12:22 < stickster> And eliminating the Docs CVS. 12:22 * stickster waits for the explosion.... 12:22 < couf> wtf? :) 12:22 < quaid> and one idea is to have a regular set of gardening hours, maybe around our meeting time for example, where anyone interested helps prune, plant, and compost 12:22 * jmbuser loves the wiki 12:23 < stickster> jmbuser: You'll love it more when it's Mediawiki. 12:23 < quaid> we have to be honest 12:23 < quaid> outside of the relnotes 12:23 < quaid> the conversion is just not worth it 12:23 < quaid> or rather, it hasn't been worth it much 12:23 < quaid> Installation Guide the one exception 12:23 < quaid> usually requiring heroics 12:23 < quaid> (and it stays in XML :) 12:24 < Sparks> I'm confused. If we cater to the developers then we help built the project. That's good. If we alienate the users then we are developing a project only for ourselves. That's bad. 12:24 < stickster> I feel a sense of guilt that I pick the RelNotes and the IG as the two "important" docs when I have worked quite a bit on both. 12:24 < couf> yeah, for some stuff it feels like overkill 12:24 < quaid> with Transifex, we are freed of CVS 12:24 < stickster> But with or without me, users really rely on those. 12:24 < Sparks> I'm not sure how much help the developers need. 12:24 < stickster> The Relnotes more than the IG. 12:25 < stickster> Sparks: It's not the *established* developers, it's the *new* developers who need help. 12:25 < stickster> New package maintainers. 12:25 * jmbuser thanks stickster for his last-minute rescue effort on the IG 12:25 < stickster> New bug triagers... 12:25 < stickster> New platform users 12:25 < quaid> +1K 12:25 < Sparks> stickster: Okay. I'm good with that. But I think we should provide that documentation, too. 12:25 < stickster> Sparks: Dropping guides we can't ever finish != Alienating users 12:26 < Sparks> But what are we telling the n00bs that come to Fedora looking for help? 12:26 < stickster> After all, we have millions of users, and really good press apparently, without them. 12:26 < stickster> Sparks: That's exactly it -- our wiki should be a more robust, well-tended garden of docs. 12:26 < stickster> Sparks: We should be able to point them to wiki pages that tell them what they need, in easy terms. 12:26 < quaid> so let me ask the white elephant question 12:26 < quaid> how is l10n in MW? 12:27 < quaid> can we hook it to Tx somehow? 12:27 < couf> wow, that's the killer question 12:27 < jsmith> Ugh... 12:27 * jsmith falls over dead 12:27 < quaid> well, we dunno 12:27 < quaid> maybe we *can* version it in git and generate PO/POT 12:27 < jmbuser> MW = MediaWiki 12:27 < quaid> yes, sorry 12:27 < jmbuser> Tx = Transiflex 12:28 < mmcgrath> pong 12:28 < quaid> s/flex/fex/ 12:28 < stickster> quaid: This is a good question. I asked mmcgrath to pitch in his opinion on L10N in MW 12:28 < quaid> aye 12:28 * mmcgrath is here to give opinions. 12:28 < stickster> And speak of the... well, angel 12:28 -!- red_alert [n=ill at fedora/redalert] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:28 < stickster> Is there any possibility that people will be able to translate stuff in the wiki in some way? 12:28 < mmcgrath> So I think we should do it the same way mediawiki and suse does that. I'm not 100% sure on technical implementations but its basically this... 12:28 < mmcgrath> Every language gets its own wiki instance. 12:28 < jsmith> wiki != CMS 12:29 < stickster> +10 for reusing other working ideas. 12:29 < stickster> jsmith: True enough. 12:29 < mmcgrath> something (this I'm not sure of) sits in the middle and makes it so if you go to a page that hasn't been translated, you get the english version. 12:29 < mmcgrath> I'm not sure how it all works. 12:29 < quaid> oh, well 12:29 < stickster> Where "working" != "hacked together tearfully" 12:29 < quaid> that's different in a sense 12:29 < quaid> that is how it is presented to the world 12:29 < quaid> but how do they translate? 12:29 < stickster> Right, how does the engine work. 12:29 < mmcgrath> but there are working examples somewhere. And I've had the lines of communcation opened to the suse guys before, I'll just go ask them. 12:29 < quaid> do they open the page and write in new content? ugh 12:30 < stickster> This is something we may have to have someone research. 12:30 < mmcgrath> quaid: ahhh, the actual translation? I have no idea. 12:30 < stickster> That doesn't need to be mmcgrath. 12:30 < quaid> also 12:30 < quaid> for the engine part 12:30 < stickster> It's certainly a good question. 12:30 < quaid> we could conceive of replacing it or hooking it to Tx 12:30 < couf> yeah, I'm afraid it's as current wiki-translation is going 12:30 < quaid> couf: explain please? 12:30 < couf> look at a page, copy it, translate it, ... 12:31 < couf> same as for Moin 12:31 < mmcgrath> 12:31 < mmcgrath> 12:31 * jmbuser sees mmcgrath is speechless 12:31 < mmcgrath> its my understanding thats how it works. 12:31 < couf> if not, wikipedia translations would be way more complete in a sense 12:31 < stickster> http://en.opensuse.org/OpenSUSE_Translation_Guide 12:31 < mmcgrath> I'm not really taking sides in the whole wiki vs cms thing for translations just because I'm conflicted enough about it. 12:32 < stickster> Yup. 12:32 < quaid> look, in the end 12:32 < quaid> wiki content is strings with markup 12:32 < mmcgrath> I mean, if people want to do it, I guess I say let them. I'm not sure how they decide what gets translated. 12:32 < quaid> what we need 12:32 < quaid> is someone to commit to writing a parser 12:32 < quaid> MW wiki => PO/POT 12:32 < quaid> if it doesn't exist, it should 12:33 < quaid> and then imagine exposing MW via Transifex ... useful,w hat? 12:33 < stickster> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/txt2po 12:33 < mmcgrath> po/pot with mediawiki I'd think would be possible but I don't know if it exists. 12:33 < stickster> ^^^ 12:33 < mmcgrath> at least not in a way that mediawiki can then read in and present to the user. 12:33 < stickster> Note mediawiki is a supported flavor 12:33 < mmcgrath> something to look at then. 12:34 < stickster> And pootle -- that source project -- is a vigorously supported and thriving project, not old & busted. 12:34 < mmcgrath> stickster: it looks like that only supports mw markup -> po. I don't think that mediawiki can then read that po back in and present it to the user. 12:34 < mmcgrath> I could be wrong though 12:34 < couf> po2txt :) 12:35 < stickster> They have both ways, I think 12:35 < couf> if that can get automated, that seems doable 12:35 < stickster> couf: +1 txt2po, po2txt 12:35 < quaid> wow, it looks like the instructions are, "translate the page" with no tools, so it means manually pulling strings into another tool 12:35 -!- J5 [n=quintice at 66.187.234.199] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:36 -!- J5_ [n=quintice at nat/redhat-us/x-1a5779b8020dfed9] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:36 -!- viking-ice_ [n=johannbg at tgad78.rhi.hi.is] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:36 < stickster> quaid: You're talking about the OpenSuSE page> 12:36 < stickster> ? 12:36 < quaid> yes, sorry 12:36 < stickster> right. 12:36 < quaid> but in essence, that is what people do for the big wikipedia, right? 12:36 < stickster> See above. There is an automated tool for txt2po and po2txt. 12:36 < quaid> I see that now 12:36 < stickster> It handles mediawiki! :-) 12:36 < stickster> (supposedly) 12:36 < quaid> but is anyone using it with a WebUI for MW? 12:36 < stickster> So... worth trying. 12:36 < quaid> ok 12:36 < couf> mmcgrath: is there a way to xml-rpc data out of MW and back in? 12:36 < mmcgrath> but I don't see how mediawiki will handle it is all. 12:37 < quaid> we need to look at that on the side 12:37 < couf> or something like xml-rpc 12:37 < stickster> I would think that Transifex could do this. 12:37 < mmcgrath> couf: yeah, the api is pretty rich. I've even heard of fuse implementations to actualy mount mediawiki though I've not played with it. 12:37 < quaid> mmcgrath: something needs to inject the strings back in the MW files/database tables, and do it by language 12:37 < mmcgrath> well, transifex's implementation is "check out, alter, commit" 12:37 < mmcgrath> it does that with existing tools. 12:37 < mmcgrath> we might have to write our own tool for transifex to do it right. 12:37 < stickster> mmcgrath: Right, but I think it's built modularly enough that back end support for something else could be plugged in. 12:37 < quaid> we would likely want to put the files in SCM 12:37 < stickster> mmcgrath: yup 12:37 < couf> in other words: tools are pretty much in place, we just have to tie'em together 12:37 < stickster> mmcgrath: we're in violent agreement :-) 12:38 < quaid> or could, that is, so we can version them 12:38 < quaid> ok then 12:38 < stickster> quaid: Actually, MW versions. 12:38 < mmcgrath> possibly... I'm still not convinced mediawiki can read po files though. 12:38 < quaid> mmcgrath: let's try a bit of quid pro quo 12:38 < stickster> So we don't necessarily need an additional SCM. 12:38 < mmcgrath> since mediawiki gets all of its information from a database. 12:38 < mmcgrath> "quaid pro quo" 12:38 < quaid> mmcgrath: will you work with us 12:38 < jmbuser> This could be another great Fedora contrib to upstream 12:38 < stickster> mmcgrath: Right, it might take something external to do the conversion and inject the page change into MW. 12:38 < quaid> mmcgrath: to make a new project to get this to happen, owned by Infra 12:39 < quaid> mmcgrath: it is our condition on being able to move a bunch of work to the wiki *and* be the gardeners to keep it a tame and wonderful place 12:39 -!- runa_b [n=runa at 59.160.127.177] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:39 < mmcgrath> quaid: I can help but not for a while, I've got a month of work to catch up on (because of the change freeze + release). I'm pretty well booked until the end of June is all. 12:39 < quaid> otherwise we are forever pushing guides out from there and into XML just so we can translate the things 12:39 -!- paragn_ [n=paragn at 59.160.127.177] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:39 < quaid> not sure on timeframe 12:39 < mmcgrath> after that though I'll be happy to help. If you can find someone else in infrastructure that can do it sooner I'll make sure they have the access they need 12:39 -!- Southern_Gentlem [n=notfred at unaffiliated/southerngentlem/x-2894754] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:39 < stickster> We ought to see if we can put out a call for volunteer help in the Fedora community to kick this off. 12:40 * quaid has to be honest, DocBook is more for translation ease than for anything that a wiki cannot do "good enough" and be better at getting contributions 12:40 < stickster> I love DocBook too which is why I think any project we want to have in DocBook should just become a thriving entity in fedorahosted.org. 12:40 < quaid> mmcgrath: OK, general support for the idea of kicking off a potential upstream tool to plugin to the wiki is probably the most important, v. actual labor 12:40 < couf> I'll try and get some L1ON-input on this 12:41 < quaid> stickster: +1 to that! 12:41 < stickster> Especially since we can have a toolchain using an in-distro tool, Publican, to do the work. 12:41 < quaid> couf: that would be good; it's too late for a GSoC project :( 12:41 * jmbuser thought the same thing 12:41 < couf> yeah, that's a bummer 12:41 < stickster> At worst this might make for a BRILLIANT FUDCon hackfest topic. 12:41 < quaid> let's reorg this thing! 12:42 < jmbuser> Yes! 12:42 < quaid> so, can I lay out some decision points to make it clear we are agreed or not? 12:42 < jmbuser> Proceed 12:42 -!- mether_ [n=ask at 59.160.127.177] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:43 < quaid> i. FDSCo agrees to turn attention on enabling *all* Fedora contributors? This is not done as a mandate/order but a statement of intent for the project. People can and should continue on whatever content is of interest to them and only pitch in where they want. 12:43 * quaid continues 12:43 < mmcgrath> :) 12:44 * couf feels a new wave coming :) 12:44 < quaid> ii. Work on managing the wiki as "gardeners" with one person designated to make the project happen (the Wiki Gardener), and make that a tame and happy place for all, however that has to happen. This includes resolving MediaWiki to work with Transifex and whatever. 12:45 < stickster> As for (i.), 100% agreed... but we need to make this a clear point on the ML, so volunteer contributors don't wonder why old guys aren't chomping at the bit to work on "new" guides over the next N months. 12:45 < quaid> iii. Push all DocBook XML guides out to be stand-alone projects on fedorahosted.org to use whatever toolchain they want; we can continue the docs-common tools (within fh.o?) and decide to swap in or make publican optional. 12:45 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka] has quit ["Verlassend"] 12:45 < jsmith> stickster: +1 12:45 < stickster> oops, I interrupted, sorry :-\ 12:45 < quaid> iii.b Decide the best fate for the release notes in a separate discussion; cf. docs-common as well 12:45 < stickster> agreed 12:45 < quaid> um, I think that's it 12:45 < quaid> did I miss anything? 12:46 < quaid> (in summary, that is) 12:46 < couf> I don't think so, all good 12:46 < quaid> then we can do a quick bit of "last discussion" and voite 12:46 < quaid> so, to proceed 12:46 < jmbuser> s/voite/vote 12:46 < stickster> with respect to my previous point... I was trying to say... 12:46 < quaid> stickster made a bit of discussion there, +1 to making it clear on mailing list and all over 12:47 < stickster> a message to say "Here's what we're doing, here's why we're doing it" beyond the meeting minutes, etc. 12:47 < quaid> jmbuser: perogativeo f the leader today to just let typos fly :D 12:47 < stickster> But 'nuff said 12:47 < quaid> stickster: +1, also blogs, and direct chats 12:47 < stickster> disco 12:47 * glezos discussed Tx with the MW guys at FOSDEM 12:47 < quaid> it's also part of the "we're about to fuck with your wiki, heads up!" campaign 12:47 < quaid> glezos: ooh?! 12:47 < stickster> glezos: Cool, hope you saw my pitches up above ;-) 12:48 < jmbuser> One refinement - a landscaping crew with a chief, instead of a wiki gardener 12:48 < glezos> there is a sketchy mechanism for PO extraction, but only for the UI. AFAIK, the content can't be exported into POs. I might have missed something though. 12:48 < stickster> Now that we know OpenSuSE would also benefit from this, there's some cross-distro goodness for you 12:48 < stickster> I'm thinking, maybe I should email Zonker to find out if they have any ideas and/or resources to contribute. 12:48 < jmbuser> hack the wiki, hack the wiki 12:48 < couf> stickster: +1 12:48 < quaid> jmbuser: explain your distinction? 12:49 -!- fcrippa [n=fcrippa at host57-49-dynamic.4-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:49 < quaid> jmbuser: in wiki gardener v. wiki landscaper 12:49 < stickster> glezos: Are you talking about a bulit-in MW capability? 12:49 < jmbuser> quaid: wiki gardener sounds like a lonely job 12:49 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:49 < jmbuser> chief garderner with apprentices is better 12:50 < glezos> stickster: yes. Not sure if a proper PO-extraction layer exists for content. 12:50 * Sparks volunteers to be the guy on those cool stand-up lawn mowers 12:50 < stickster> glezos: Have you seen pootle's tools? 12:50 < stickster> http://translate.sourceforge.net/wiki/toolkit/txt2po 12:50 -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk 12:50 -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster 12:50 < quaid> jmbuser: in my mind, it is mental preparation for being the one who gets all the hot compost landing on them when the other subprojects let fly 12:50 < glezos> stickster: yes. I was talking about Mediawiki in particular. Not just a converter, but a built-in capability in MW to extract and manage PO files. 12:51 < jmbuser> stickster has left the building 12:51 < glezos> BTW -- I would *love* to work on something like this at some point in the future. 12:51 < jmbuser> ...or not 12:51 * glezos still reading the log 12:52 < stickster> Aw crap. 12:52 * stickster remembers Ctrl+R means something very specific in xchat-gnome. 12:52 < glezos> mmcgrath: with the GSoC, I'll be working on abstraction layers in Tx to make it able to receive and submit content from various tools (eg. submit via https or even plain email instead of ssh) 12:52 -!- ldimagg_ [n=ldimaggi at nat/redhat-us/x-a4ef544f65d68dd2] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:52 < mmcgrath> glezos: excellent. 12:52 < stickster> glezos: Right -- would it work for Tx to check out POT by using something like pootle's txt2po against a MW revision, then doing po2txt and pushing it back into MW? 12:53 < stickster> err.. well, you get my drift. 12:53 < jmbuser> undoubtedly :-) 12:53 < glezos> stickster: The challenge would be to implement a PO manager inside MW. After that, Tx can take those PO files quite easily. 12:53 < stickster> glezos: never mind, you just answered my previous question. 12:54 -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia at p57A2EB5F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:54 < quaid> ok, we are adrift 12:54 < quaid> to the points above, a quick show of hands: 12:54 * stickster gets out of the way of the rudder. 12:54 < Sparks> +1 12:54 < quaid> i. FDSCo agrees to change the order of things thusly ... 12:55 < stickster> +1 to i, ii, and iii. 12:55 < couf> +1 12:55 < jmbuser> +1 to all - change is good 12:55 < quaid> whee! 12:55 < quaid> +1 from me 12:55 -!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 107 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 106 normal] 12:55 < couf> and thats ratified :) 12:55 < stickster> So unanimously we've pretty much changed the nature of the Docs Project for the future. 12:55 < quaid> but wait, there's more! 12:55 < stickster> Pretty good for an hour's work 12:55 < quaid> glezos, jsmith 12:56 < glezos> +1 12:56 < stickster> You can cut a tin can with them! 12:56 < jmbuser> genzu knives? 12:56 < jsmith> +1 12:56 < quaid> then that is unanimous unless I'm stupidly forgetting someone 12:56 < couf> quaid: bob 12:56 -!- mether_ [n=ask at 59.160.127.177] has quit ["Ex-Chat"] 12:56 < quaid> EvilBob is not here but here? 12:57 < jmbuser> EvilBob: ping 12:57 < couf> well Sparks jumped in his place, so .. :) 12:57 < quaid> Sparks: I saw you comment a bit earlier ... 12:57 < quaid> heh 12:57 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr at p4FDD176F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:57 < quaid> ok, yes, I see :) 12:57 < quaid> just making sure we adequately 12:57 < quaid> addressed the idea of continuing content work 12:58 < quaid> (e.g. Sec Guide :) 12:58 < quaid> ok, rock on 12:58 < quaid> two minutes 12:58 < quaid> elections? 12:58 * quaid looks at the pages 12:58 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo - two minutes for election discussion 12:58 * stickster makes motion to push this until next week 12:58 < quaid> that's what it seems to be like 12:58 * stickster selfish because he's about to get on the phone :-\ 12:58 * stickster backs away 12:59 < quaid> and the channel has a turnover 12:59 < jsmith> I second the motion 12:59 < quaid> ok, let's push this topic to the next meeting 12:59 < couf> yep, push back 12:59 < jmbuser> +1 12:59 < quaid> and catch up on #fedora-docs to refresh ourselves on the elections :) 12:59 < quaid> and be out of here in 5 12:59 < quaid> 4 12:59 < quaid> 3 12:59 < quaid> 2 12:59 < quaid> 1 12:59 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Thu May 15 11:29:51 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 21:29:51 +1000 Subject: release notes for preupgrade Message-ID: <95f1114b0805150429i1ee22452ib141ea1d6fa78f6e@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Should there be any mention in the release notes about where to get preupgrade from? If so, what is the 'official' location? Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 15 12:05:52 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 08:05:52 -0400 Subject: release notes for preupgrade In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0805150429i1ee22452ib141ea1d6fa78f6e@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0805150429i1ee22452ib141ea1d6fa78f6e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1210853152.20001.21.camel@victoria> On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 21:29 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > Hi, > > Should there be any mention in the release notes about where to get > preupgrade from? If so, what is the 'official' location? Oh, excellent question. The *last* I heard, one would enable the 'updates-testing' repository, but maybe the latest preupgrade package is now in the stable 'updates-released' repository. You can check with Seth (skvidal) or Will (wwoods) for the latest breaking news. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu May 15 13:51:17 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 19:21:17 +0530 Subject: release notes for preupgrade In-Reply-To: <1210853152.20001.21.camel@victoria> References: <95f1114b0805150429i1ee22452ib141ea1d6fa78f6e@mail.gmail.com> <1210853152.20001.21.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <482C3FD5.7090905@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2008-05-15 at 21:29 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: >> Hi, >> >> Should there be any mention in the release notes about where to get >> preupgrade from? If so, what is the 'official' location? > > Oh, excellent question. The *last* I heard, one would enable the > 'updates-testing' repository, but maybe the latest preupgrade package is > now in the stable 'updates-released' repository. You can check with > Seth (skvidal) or Will (wwoods) for the latest breaking news. Nothing is stable yet. What would be good is to give a brief intro and throw in a link to a wiki page which we can keep updated as things change. Rahul From keith at henkell.net Thu May 15 13:50:39 2008 From: keith at henkell.net (Keith Henkell) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 09:50:39 -0400 Subject: Security Guide: Encryption Chapter ready for editing In-Reply-To: <20080514140621.GA17383@eric.christensenplace.us> References: <20080514140621.GA17383@eric.christensenplace.us> Message-ID: <563f345d0805150650t3662ba7cubb77b420f7b7abed@mail.gmail.com> If no one else can get to it, I can get to it around 1PM ET today. On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Eric H Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > The Encryption chapter [1] of the Security Guide is ready for editing. I want to clean it up more but I don't want to hold up the entire publication on it. > > Thanks, > Eric > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide/Encryption > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIKvHdL5V8yddJCO0RAgShAJ4hEdKxq3HfqxbhfIIY0ImB9QxZzwCfdUVg > nw6VSbi0YFCGL6eMhx7xphI= > =qJYo > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From keith at henkell.net Thu May 15 17:43:27 2008 From: keith at henkell.net (Keith Henkell) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 13:43:27 -0400 Subject: Security Guide: Encryption Chapter ready for editing In-Reply-To: <563f345d0805150650t3662ba7cubb77b420f7b7abed@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080514140621.GA17383@eric.christensenplace.us> <563f345d0805150650t3662ba7cubb77b420f7b7abed@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <563f345d0805151043h37f59218ve69eb6b8cc63dde9@mail.gmail.com> Done. Based on the audience, I think we might want to add notes about the limitations of each method. Something like: ====Full Disk Encryption Limitations==== Full disk encryption solutions like LUKS will not protect against compromise while the computer is on. Once you enter your password and LUKS decrypts the disk the files in the disk are now available to anyone on the system who has permission to access the files. If you agree, I will do it on the train home tonight. Keith On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Keith Henkell wrote: > If no one else can get to it, I can get to it around 1PM ET today. > > On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Eric H Christensen > wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> The Encryption chapter [1] of the Security Guide is ready for editing. I want to clean it up more but I don't want to hold up the entire publication on it. >> >> Thanks, >> Eric >> >> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide/Encryption >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iD8DBQFIKvHdL5V8yddJCO0RAgShAJ4hEdKxq3HfqxbhfIIY0ImB9QxZzwCfdUVg >> nw6VSbi0YFCGL6eMhx7xphI= >> =qJYo >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > From eric at christensenplace.us Thu May 15 17:59:21 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (=?utf-8?B?RXJpYyBDaHJpc3RlbnNlbg==?=) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:59:21 +0000 Subject: Security Guide: Encryption Chapter ready for editing In-Reply-To: <563f345d0805151043h37f59218ve69eb6b8cc63dde9@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080514140621.GA17383@eric.christensenplace.us><563f345d0805150650t3662ba7cubb77b420f7b7abed@mail.gmail.com><563f345d0805151043h37f59218ve69eb6b8cc63dde9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <918459628-1210874341-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1298729006-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> I agree fully. Go ahead and add what you think is necessary. Many eyes make for a good doc. Eric -----Original Message----- From: "Keith Henkell" Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 13:43:27 To:"For participants of the Documentation Project" Subject: Re: Security Guide: Encryption Chapter ready for editing Done. Based on the audience, I think we might want to add notes about the limitations of each method. Something like: ====Full Disk Encryption Limitations==== Full disk encryption solutions like LUKS will not protect against compromise while the computer is on. Once you enter your password and LUKS decrypts the disk the files in the disk are now available to anyone on the system who has permission to access the files. If you agree, I will do it on the train home tonight. Keith On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Keith Henkell wrote: > If no one else can get to it, I can get to it around 1PM ET today. > > On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Eric H Christensen > wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> The Encryption chapter [1] of the Security Guide is ready for editing. I want to clean it up more but I don't want to hold up the entire publication on it. >> >> Thanks, >> Eric >> >> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide/Encryption >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) >> >> iD8DBQFIKvHdL5V8yddJCO0RAgShAJ4hEdKxq3HfqxbhfIIY0ImB9QxZzwCfdUVg >> nw6VSbi0YFCGL6eMhx7xphI= >> =qJYo >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From jonstanley at gmail.com Thu May 15 19:02:57 2008 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 15:02:57 -0400 Subject: Self Introduction - Jon Stanley Message-ID: Hey, Paul inspired me to write down some of my blog posts on how to do various QA tasks in Fedora as documentation :). So here I am. For the formal self-intro: My name Jon Stanley. For my day job, I'm a IT Architect at a large-ish IT service provider. I live in Jersey City, NJ USA (part of the NYC metro area). What I already do in Fedora is to co-lead the bug triage team with John Poelstra, participate in various marketing activities, maintain a few fonts, do QA, etc. My goals for the documentation project include developing documentation around the various tools that are used for the QA and distribution composition function within Fedora. These tools are in the open, however, they're largely undocumented, which has the effect of deterring people from using them. My skill level with Linux and Fedora is extensive - I'm a RHCE (805007017527115) and have one RHCA exam under my belt. I'm always looking to learn more, however! :). My GPG key fingerprint is below: pub 1024D/1F85118D 2007-12-16 Key fingerprint = 84A5 3E8C 66E7 53B3 C029 33B8 7111 2949 1F85 118D uid Jon Stanley sub 2048g/FD723FBD 2007-12-16 I may need some stylistic help in my documentation, and DocBook is a new and scary thing to me, but I'm sure I can learn. Look forward to working with everyone! From keith at henkell.net Thu May 15 21:05:40 2008 From: keith at henkell.net (Keith Henkell) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 17:05:40 -0400 Subject: Security Guide: Encryption Chapter ready for editing In-Reply-To: <918459628-1210874341-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1298729006-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> References: <20080514140621.GA17383@eric.christensenplace.us> <563f345d0805150650t3662ba7cubb77b420f7b7abed@mail.gmail.com> <563f345d0805151043h37f59218ve69eb6b8cc63dde9@mail.gmail.com> <918459628-1210874341-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1298729006-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> Message-ID: <563f345d0805151405l1b9099fkc09ab93fb606b3d0@mail.gmail.com> I have the document open offline and will check it back in around 8 or so. On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > I agree fully. Go ahead and add what you think is necessary. Many eyes make for a good doc. > > Eric > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Keith Henkell" > > Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 13:43:27 > To:"For participants of the Documentation Project" > Subject: Re: Security Guide: Encryption Chapter ready for editing > > > Done. > > Based on the audience, I think we might want to add notes about the > limitations of each method. Something like: > ====Full Disk Encryption Limitations==== > Full disk encryption solutions like LUKS will not protect against > compromise while the computer is on. Once you enter your password and > LUKS decrypts the disk the files in the disk are now available to > anyone on the system who has permission to access the files. > > If you agree, I will do it on the train home tonight. > > Keith > > On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Keith Henkell wrote: >> If no one else can get to it, I can get to it around 1PM ET today. >> >> On Wed, May 14, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Eric H Christensen >> wrote: >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> The Encryption chapter [1] of the Security Guide is ready for editing. I want to clean it up more but I don't want to hold up the entire publication on it. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Eric >>> >>> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide/Encryption >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) >>> >>> iD8DBQFIKvHdL5V8yddJCO0RAgShAJ4hEdKxq3HfqxbhfIIY0ImB9QxZzwCfdUVg >>> nw6VSbi0YFCGL6eMhx7xphI= >>> =qJYo >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>> -- >>> fedora-docs-list mailing list >>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >>> To unsubscribe: >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >>> >> > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From kwade at redhat.com Fri May 16 14:48:57 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 07:48:57 -0700 Subject: toolchain rock-up Message-ID: <1210949337.3681.88.camel@calliope.phig.org> We've been talking about rocking up our toolchain by integrating Publican[1]. We need to set up some tests to be able to confirm if the tool does what we need, technically, socially, and communally. Please add yours to the list below, then we can throw it in a wiki page to start working against. = Technical = * Does it fulfill all the current tool's capabilities? - These need to be defined and listed as specific tests * Is it built on sound technology with a future? * ... = Social = * Is there an active upstream? * Is upstream responsive to Fedora Docs? * Is the upstream work in the open? * Can anyone (theoretically) join the upstream work? * Is there a role Fedora Docs should take in the upstream? * ... = Communal = * Is there a Fedora packager? * Is it maintained for EPEL as well? * Do other parts of Fedora want to use this tool? * Is there value-add from Fedora Docs to make it worth promoting the integrated set (Fedora Docs + Publican)? * Does Fedora Docs want to create and maintain a "Content Producer Spin"? * ... -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From couf at skynet.be Fri May 16 17:27:26 2008 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 19:27:26 +0200 Subject: Self Introduction - Jon Stanley In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1210958846.23579.8.camel@localhost> Op donderdag 15-05-2008 om 15:02 uur [tijdzone -0400], schreef Jon Stanley: > Hey, Paul inspired me to write down some of my blog posts on how to do > various QA tasks in Fedora as documentation :). So here I am. For > the formal self-intro: > [snip] > I may need some stylistic help in my documentation, and DocBook is a > new and scary thing to me, but I'm sure I can learn. > > Look forward to working with everyone! Hi Jon, and welcome to Fedora Docs and sorry for the response-delay. I'm glad to see you've followed Paul's advice and came around, always good to see some people from different projects wanting to document there "pet project". You've joined FDP at a rather interesting point in it's history: we're going to change the way we run, block and do stuff around here [1]. So don't get to scared about things like DocBook, or maybe just a little :) Anyway, welcome again and enjoy the ride Bart [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00032.html -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri May 16 18:51:48 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 11:51:48 -0700 Subject: Self Introduction - Jon Stanley In-Reply-To: <1210958846.23579.8.camel@localhost> References: <1210958846.23579.8.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1210963908.3681.126.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, 2008-05-16 at 19:27 +0200, Bart Couvreur wrote: > You've joined FDP at a rather interesting point in it's history: we're > going to change the way we run, block and do stuff around here [1]. That would seem fortuitous, as (helping) document what Jon is talking about just became a central focus for us. :) > So > don't get to scared about things like DocBook, or maybe just a little :) I predict, with confidence, that Jon will come to love DocBook. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat May 17 00:01:11 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:01:11 -0400 Subject: Magazine article Message-ID: <1210982471.17410.133.camel@victoria> The opportunity's come up to have a contributor write for a Linux newsstand publication -- an 8-9 page article covering installation and simple beginning configuration for Fedora 9. The article can contain some screenshots of the kind normally found in these types of publications. This requires a person to *commit* to have the article ready by around June 15th. Kara and I will get you hooked up with the magazine publishers for all the details, which are between you and the publication's editors. This is a great chance for someone to get involved with publicizing Fedora 9 in a way that is guaranteed to reach thousands of readers. Interested? Get in touch with me or Kara offline. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From keith at henkell.net Sat May 17 00:46:24 2008 From: keith at henkell.net (Keith Henkell) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 20:46:24 -0400 Subject: Security Guide: Encryption Chapter ready for editing In-Reply-To: <563f345d0805151405l1b9099fkc09ab93fb606b3d0@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080514140621.GA17383@eric.christensenplace.us> <563f345d0805150650t3662ba7cubb77b420f7b7abed@mail.gmail.com> <563f345d0805151043h37f59218ve69eb6b8cc63dde9@mail.gmail.com> <918459628-1210874341-cardhu_decombobulator_blackberry.rim.net-1298729006-@bxe148.bisx.prod.on.blackberry> <563f345d0805151405l1b9099fkc09ab93fb606b3d0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <563f345d0805161746l811bddh80ab6894b836921e@mail.gmail.com> Done. Do you need help integrating the gpg documention into the guide? Is there something else you need? I have at least 8 hours I can commit to next week. On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 5:05 PM, Keith Henkell wrote: > I have the document open offline and will check it back in around 8 or so. > > On Thu, May 15, 2008 at 1:59 PM, Eric Christensen > wrote: >> I agree fully. Go ahead and add what you think is necessary. Many eyes make for a good doc. >> >> Eric >> From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sat May 17 05:44:28 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 15:44:28 +1000 Subject: Fedora 9 release notes: final updates Message-ID: <95f1114b0805162244v1dae5bf0p72e2585f14f990f3@mail.gmail.com> Hi, The last lot of zero-day Fedora 9 web-only release notes updates have been committed to CVS. These will also become part of the fedora-release-notes-9.0.2-1 package. A summary of the changes: * OverView.xml: A new section on PreUpgrade has been added, as well as a small change, "Firefox 3" to "Firefox 3 (beta 5)". * Desktop.xml: - more information added to 10.1.2. GNOME Display Manager. - a new, very small section, 10.3. PackageKit, has been added. - minor changes and removals (for example, an "x86_64" was removed). - a small section, 10.6.1. NSpluginwrapper, has been added. - minor content and new command have been added to 10.6.2. Enabling Flash Plugin. - a new section, 10.7. Mail Clients, has been added. Since it is the weekend, I pushed the final time and date for translation submissions to UTC 2359, 2008-05-21, which will give everyone an extra day over the original schedule. Thank you all very much again for all of your tireless efforts! Apologies if any of the above details are incorrect, or if I have left something out. Kind Regards, Murray. From stickster at gmail.com Sat May 17 16:17:54 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 12:17:54 -0400 Subject: Magazine article In-Reply-To: <1210982471.17410.133.camel@victoria> References: <1210982471.17410.133.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <1211041074.8944.4.camel@victoria> On Fri, 2008-05-16 at 20:01 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > The opportunity's come up to have a contributor write for a Linux > newsstand publication -- an 8-9 page article covering installation and > simple beginning configuration for Fedora 9. The article can contain > some screenshots of the kind normally found in these types of > publications. > > This requires a person to *commit* to have the article ready by around > June 15th. Kara and I will get you hooked up with the magazine > publishers for all the details, which are between you and the > publication's editors. > > This is a great chance for someone to get involved with publicizing > Fedora 9 in a way that is guaranteed to reach thousands of readers. > Interested? Get in touch with me or Kara offline. We have a taker. Thanks for all who wrote me expressing interest -- I am really looking forward to seeing this in print. :-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat May 17 20:50:18 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 02:20:18 +0530 Subject: Persistent overlay? Message-ID: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> Hi, I suggested to Luke to use something better than "persistent overlay" to describe the amount of space alloted for storing software changes and settings in a Live USB. http://lewk.org/blog/liveusb-creator-2.4.html I am not really sure what term to use as a replacement. Any suggestions dear word smiths? Rahul From jmbabich at gmail.com Sun May 18 10:22:30 2008 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 13:22:30 +0300 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi, > > I suggested to Luke to use something better than "persistent overlay" to > describe the amount of space alloted for storing software changes and > settings in a Live USB. > How about "permanent storage"? Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, FDP From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Sun May 18 13:37:29 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 21:37:29 +0800 Subject: Does not validate Message-ID: <1211117850.3847.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> For some reason I'm getting the following error in the F-8 directory for the DuG. Document /home/marc/fedora-cvs/docs/desktop-user-guide/F-8/en_US/desktop-user-guide.xml does not validate This is when I'm trying to compile a html version to view possible improvements. Any suggestions would be great. Cheers, Marc From sulyokpeti at gmail.com Sun May 18 13:42:04 2008 From: sulyokpeti at gmail.com (Sulyok Peti) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 15:42:04 +0200 Subject: translation quick start guide Message-ID: <1211118124.3197.39.camel@sutty.homelinux.net> ?Did you noticed, that DSA SSH keys are not accepted in FAS, only RSA keys? Just because the translation quick start guide gives examples with DSA keys. And it mentiones kbabel instead of the new name kaider. From couf at skynet.be Sun May 18 14:00:46 2008 From: couf at skynet.be (Bart Couvreur) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 16:00:46 +0200 Subject: translation quick start guide In-Reply-To: <1211118124.3197.39.camel@sutty.homelinux.net> References: <1211118124.3197.39.camel@sutty.homelinux.net> Message-ID: <1211119246.30638.6.camel@localhost> Op zondag 18-05-2008 om 15:42 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Sulyok Peti: > ?Did you noticed, that DSA SSH keys are not accepted in FAS, only RSA > keys? Just because the translation quick start guide gives examples with > DSA keys. Hmm, strange, I've got a DSA SSH key in FAS and it's working. IIRC I created it with help of the TQSG the first time around. > > And it mentiones kbabel instead of the new name kaider. And this apparently[1] will change again, so we might just wait until the name is finally decided on. Thanks for reporting this, Bart [1] http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Summer_of_Code/2007/Projects/KAider -- Bart key fingerprint: 6AAB 544D 3432 D013 776D 3602 ADB6 6B2A D93F 0F93 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: Dit berichtdeel is digitaal ondertekend URL: From sulyokpeti at gmail.com Sun May 18 15:50:07 2008 From: sulyokpeti at gmail.com (Sulyok Peti) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 17:50:07 +0200 Subject: translation quick start guide In-Reply-To: <1211119246.30638.6.camel@localhost> References: <1211118124.3197.39.camel@sutty.homelinux.net> <1211119246.30638.6.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1211125807.11280.6.camel@sutty.homelinux.net> This RSA requirement popped up a few days ago, earlier both DSA and RSA keys were accepted, but now only RSA is accepted. If you try with a DSA key, you will get this: ssh_key: Error - Not a valid RSA SSH key: ssh-dss AAAAB3NzaC1kc3... 2008. 05. 18, vas?rnap keltez?ssel 16.00-kor Bart Couvreur ezt ?rta: > Op zondag 18-05-2008 om 15:42 uur [tijdzone +0200], schreef Sulyok Peti: > > ?Did you noticed, that DSA SSH keys are not accepted in FAS, only RSA > > keys? Just because the translation quick start guide gives examples with > > DSA keys. > > Hmm, strange, I've got a DSA SSH key in FAS and it's working. IIRC I > created it with help of the TQSG the first time around. > > > > And it mentiones kbabel instead of the new name kaider. > > And this apparently[1] will change again, so we might just wait until > the name is finally decided on. > > Thanks for reporting this, > > Bart > > [1] http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Summer_of_Code/2007/Projects/KAider > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From romal at gmx.de Sun May 18 16:26:27 2008 From: romal at gmx.de (Robert M. Albrecht) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 18:26:27 +0200 Subject: Magazine article In-Reply-To: <1210982471.17410.133.camel@victoria> References: <1210982471.17410.133.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <483058B3.6060603@gmx.de> Hi, if someone needs a german article for a magazine, I may be of help. I was a freelance writer for about 10 years. cu romal Paul W. Frields schrieb: > The opportunity's come up to have a contributor write for a Linux > newsstand publication -- an 8-9 page article covering installation and > simple beginning configuration for Fedora 9. The article can contain > some screenshots of the kind normally found in these types of > publications. > > This requires a person to *commit* to have the article ready by around > June 15th. Kara and I will get you hooked up with the magazine > publishers for all the details, which are between you and the > publication's editors. > > This is a great chance for someone to get involved with publicizing > Fedora 9 in a way that is guaranteed to reach thousands of readers. > Interested? Get in touch with me or Kara offline. > > From stickster at gmail.com Sun May 18 19:06:33 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 15:06:33 -0400 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 13:22 +0300, John Babich wrote: > On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Rahul Sundaram > wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I suggested to Luke to use something better than "persistent overlay" to > > describe the amount of space alloted for storing software changes and > > settings in a Live USB. > > > How about "permanent storage"? Tough call -- because the space is used for differences in the whole file system, not just data storage. So a 512 MB overlay doesn't mean the user can store 512 MB of data, especially if they start changing the package complement. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From marc at mwiriadi.id.au Mon May 19 10:56:10 2008 From: marc at mwiriadi.id.au (Marc Wiriadisastra) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 18:56:10 +0800 Subject: Does not validate In-Reply-To: <1211117850.3847.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1211117850.3847.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1211194570.3514.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 21:37 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > For some reason I'm getting the following error in the F-8 directory for > the DuG. > > Document /home/marc/fedora-cvs/docs/desktop-user-guide/F-8/en_US/desktop-user-guide.xml does not validate > > This is when I'm trying to compile a html version to view possible > improvements. > > Any suggestions would be great. > > Cheers, > > Marc > Anyone? Cheers, Marc From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 19 11:55:46 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 17:25:46 +0530 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 13:22 +0300, John Babich wrote: >> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Rahul Sundaram >> wrote: >>> Hi, >>> >>> I suggested to Luke to use something better than "persistent overlay" to >>> describe the amount of space alloted for storing software changes and >>> settings in a Live USB. >>> >> How about "permanent storage"? > > Tough call -- because the space is used for differences in the whole > file system, not just data storage. So a 512 MB overlay doesn't mean > the user can store 512 MB of data, especially if they start changing the > package complement. Any other suggestions please? Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 19 13:33:48 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 13:33:48 +0000 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1211204028.3509.44.camel@victoria> On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 17:25 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 13:22 +0300, John Babich wrote: > >> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Rahul Sundaram > >> wrote: > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> I suggested to Luke to use something better than "persistent overlay" to > >>> describe the amount of space alloted for storing software changes and > >>> settings in a Live USB. > >>> > >> How about "permanent storage"? > > > > Tough call -- because the space is used for differences in the whole > > file system, not just data storage. So a 512 MB overlay doesn't mean > > the user can store 512 MB of data, especially if they start changing the > > package complement. > > Any other suggestions please? I'm not sure whether changing this midstream is a great idea. After all, the "persistence" and "persistent overlay" were terms I described repeatedly and consistently with every one of the dozen or more interviews I gave for Fedora 9. If we change this we risk making things *more* confusing for users who are pursuing the links from the highly digg'd stories such as from lifehacker.org. From a strategy perspective, one generally doesn't want to send a bunch of media messages, and then change the terminology afterward. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 19 13:45:59 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 19:15:59 +0530 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <1211204028.3509.44.camel@victoria> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> <1211204028.3509.44.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <48318497.70606@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I'm not sure whether changing this midstream is a great idea. After > all, the "persistence" and "persistent overlay" were terms I described > repeatedly and consistently with every one of the dozen or more > interviews I gave for Fedora 9. I noticed and it I am still not sure it is the right choice. Many people didn't even get the idea on what was different from previous releases of Fedora or other distributions on this particular USB feature. I am still of the opinion "persistent overlay" is just not the right terminology for end users. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 19 13:59:33 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 09:59:33 -0400 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <48318497.70606@fedoraproject.org> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> <1211204028.3509.44.camel@victoria> <48318497.70606@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1211205573.3509.48.camel@victoria> On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 19:15 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > I'm not sure whether changing this midstream is a great idea. After > > all, the "persistence" and "persistent overlay" were terms I described > > repeatedly and consistently with every one of the dozen or more > > interviews I gave for Fedora 9. > > I noticed and it I am still not sure it is the right choice. Many people > didn't even get the idea on what was different from previous releases of > Fedora or other distributions on this particular USB feature. I am still > of the opinion "persistent overlay" is just not the right terminology > for end users. I can only tell you that I was *very* clear in the interviews what made this different, both from the "persistence" perspective and the "non-destructive" perspective. That journalists may still have got it wrong doesn't seem like a problem that renaming is going to solve. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cpanceac at gmail.com Mon May 19 14:01:07 2008 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 17:01:07 +0300 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <48318497.70606@fedoraproject.org> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> <1211204028.3509.44.camel@victoria> <48318497.70606@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: while persistence is something i understand, i as a nonnativenglishspeaker, don't really understand that overlay persistence. so yes, imho it should be replaced. 2008/5/19 Rahul Sundaram : > Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> >> I'm not sure whether changing this midstream is a great idea. After >> all, the "persistence" and "persistent overlay" were terms I described >> repeatedly and consistently with every one of the dozen or more >> interviews I gave for Fedora 9. >> > > I noticed and it I am still not sure it is the right choice. Many people > didn't even get the idea on what was different from previous releases of > Fedora or other distributions on this particular USB feature. I am still of > the opinion "persistent overlay" is just not the right terminology for end > users. > > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Linux counter #213090 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 19 14:47:45 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 20:17:45 +0530 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <1211205573.3509.48.camel@victoria> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> <1211204028.3509.44.camel@victoria> <48318497.70606@fedoraproject.org> <1211205573.3509.48.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <48319311.5020109@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > I can only tell you that I was *very* clear in the interviews what made > this different, both from the "persistence" perspective and the > "non-destructive" perspective. Some of them did quote you. That journalists may still have got it > wrong doesn't seem like a problem that renaming is going to solve. I don't care about the journalists getting it wrong in this instance. I am talking specifically about us exposing a pretty technical term in a graphical user interface that is meant for Windows users to more easily migrate to Fedora. This is a problem for L10N too. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 19 15:01:25 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 15:01:25 +0000 Subject: Does not validate In-Reply-To: <1211194570.3514.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1211117850.3847.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1211194570.3514.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1211209285.3509.64.camel@victoria> On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 18:56 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 21:37 +0800, Marc Wiriadisastra wrote: > > For some reason I'm getting the following error in the F-8 directory for > > the DuG. > > > > Document /home/marc/fedora-cvs/docs/desktop-user-guide/F-8/en_US/desktop-user-guide.xml does not validate > > > > This is when I'm trying to compile a html version to view possible > > improvements. > > > > Any suggestions would be great. > > > > Cheers, > > > > Marc > > > > Anyone? Hi Marc, Make sure you're looking at the actual error messages, because they tell you exactly where the problem is. Each message will feature a filename and a line, which is where the element occurs that has a validation error. For instance, the first error I saw was this: ./Desktops.xml:27: element listitem: validity error : Element listitem content does not follow the DTD, expecting (calloutlist | glosslist | bibliolist | itemizedlist | orderedlist | segmentedlist | simplelist | variablelist | caution | important | note | tip | warning | literallayout | programlisting | programlistingco | screen | screenco | screenshot | synopsis | cmdsynopsis | funcsynopsis | classsynopsis | fieldsynopsis | constructorsynopsis | destructorsynopsis | methodsynopsis | formalpara | para | simpara | address | blockquote | graphic | graphicco | mediaobject | mediaobjectco | informalequation | informalexample | informalfigure | informaltable | equation | example | figure | table | msgset | procedure | sidebar | qandaset | task | anchor | bridgehead | remark | highlights | abstract | authorblurb | epigraph | indexterm | beginpage)+, got (CDATA) Read the first line: The problem is in Desktop.xml, at line 27. Inside the element there's a problem. The DTD expects something inside the following list, but instead it saw "CDATA", which means text that's not part of an element. Generally contains a like this: Some item 1 So I'd bet you had something like this instead, which is wrong: Some item 1 Let that be a guide, and see if you can fix the document using the error messages, as above. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From farrellj at gmail.com Mon May 19 15:17:09 2008 From: farrellj at gmail.com (Jason Farrell) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 11:17:09 -0400 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 13:22 +0300, John Babich wrote: >> >>> On Sat, May 17, 2008 at 11:50 PM, Rahul Sundaram >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi, >>>> >>>> I suggested to Luke to use something better than "persistent overlay" to >>>> describe the amount of space alloted for storing software changes and >>>> settings in a Live USB. >>>> >>>> How about "permanent storage"? >>> >> >> Tough call -- because the space is used for differences in the whole >> file system, not just data storage. So a 512 MB overlay doesn't mean >> the user can store 512 MB of data, especially if they start changing the >> package complement. >> > > Any other suggestions please? > A small list: 1) Saved State 2) State Layer 3) Writable Layer 4) Read-Write Overlay 5) Read-Write Area 6) Changeable Image "User data and system changes are saved to the _BLANK_." Calling it a "Writable Layer" might make slightly more common sense. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 19 19:24:07 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 12:24:07 -0700 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1211225047.18933.137.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 11:17 -0400, Jason Farrell wrote: > > A small list: > 1) Saved State > 2) State Layer > 3) Writable Layer > 4) Read-Write Overlay > 5) Read-Write Area > 6) Changeable Image > > "User data and system changes are saved to the _BLANK_." > > Calling it a "Writable Layer" might make slightly more common sense. "Saved State Layer" is pretty good, but then what about people who don't understand the idea of state? It is also a bit harder to translate. A word for 'persistence' that has a close-enough meaning for the layperson is 'permanent'. If it is important that we convey it is a 'layer' rather than an ambiguous 'space'/'area': "User data and system changes are saved to the Permanent Layer." - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 19 19:25:23 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 12:25:23 -0700 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <1211204028.3509.44.camel@victoria> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> <1211204028.3509.44.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <1211225123.18933.141.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 13:33 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I'm not sure whether changing this midstream is a great idea. OTOH, strings in software can have bugfixes and enhancements. For example, if it worked in the UI, "Persistent Overlay (permanent layer)" could be used, then phase in the new term over time. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 19 20:06:28 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 16:06:28 -0400 Subject: Persistent overlay? In-Reply-To: <1211225047.18933.137.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <482F450A.2000607@fedoraproject.org> <9d2c731f0805180322o5880e7dexb1cc2e8d1d6a4be@mail.gmail.com> <1211137593.14704.1.camel@victoria> <48316AC2.1000807@fedoraproject.org> <1211225047.18933.137.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1211227588.3509.139.camel@victoria> On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 12:24 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 11:17 -0400, Jason Farrell wrote: > > > > > A small list: > > 1) Saved State > > 2) State Layer > > 3) Writable Layer > > 4) Read-Write Overlay > > 5) Read-Write Area > > 6) Changeable Image > > > > "User data and system changes are saved to the _BLANK_." > > > > Calling it a "Writable Layer" might make slightly more common sense. ?Rahul's comments about user accessibility are fair enough. So this sounds good. > "Saved State Layer" is pretty good, but then what about people who don't > understand the idea of state? It is also a bit harder to translate. > > A word for 'persistence' that has a close-enough meaning for the > layperson is 'permanent'. If it is important that we convey it is a > 'layer' rather than an ambiguous 'space'/'area': > > "User data and system changes are saved to the Permanent Layer." Ha, word fun! But "permanent" might have the opposite meaning from what we intend, which is that it can be changed over time. :-) I do like "layer" for clarity, though. What about: * Writable Layer (this really isn't bad 'tall) * System Change Layer * Flexible Data Layer * Recordable Layer (dangerously close to jargon collision, but does make good sense) Something tells me there's a real world analog we can use somewhere... and it probably involves either baseball or cooking. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 20 11:32:47 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 07:32:47 -0400 Subject: F10? In-Reply-To: <20080520034421.GG3540@Max> References: <20080520034421.GG3540@Max> Message-ID: <1211283167.17352.5.camel@victoria> On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 23:44 -0400, Ricky Zhou wrote: > On 2008-05-19 10:27:52 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: > > All in all I feel it was a good release. So my question to the team, what > > would you all like to see over the next 6 months? > * New wiki :-) > * More/better documentation ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This is where Jef Spaleta's role-based SIG idea, and the Docs team's new direction, might be helpful. If we can get one or more people from Docs hooked up with this team to help, all the work can/should be done on the wiki. Mike and I have talked in the past about the fact that Fedora has a world-class infrastructure and the team to support it. If we can get the details down on "paper," we add substantially to the proposition that Fedora is much more than just a distro. We can have a blueprint for any similar project, or open-source business startup, or anyone who wants to bootstrap their own community, to go from zero to sixty in terms of supporting that community with the tools they need for communication, coding, and presence. Certainly that could take more than six months, but it's a great time to get that off the ground. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jmtaylor90 at gmail.com Tue May 20 14:45:39 2008 From: jmtaylor90 at gmail.com (Jason Taylor) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 10:45:39 -0400 Subject: F10? In-Reply-To: <1211283167.17352.5.camel@victoria> References: <20080520034421.GG3540@Max> <1211283167.17352.5.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <23b1fe6e0805200745h646ab57fxbc0ebe85c125528b@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 7:32 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 23:44 -0400, Ricky Zhou wrote: >> On 2008-05-19 10:27:52 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: >> > All in all I feel it was a good release. So my question to the team, what >> > would you all like to see over the next 6 months? >> * New wiki :-) >> * More/better documentation > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > This is where Jef Spaleta's role-based SIG idea, and the Docs team's new > direction, might be helpful. If we can get one or more people from Docs > hooked up with this team to help, all the work can/should be done on the > wiki. > > Mike and I have talked in the past about the fact that Fedora has a > world-class infrastructure and the team to support it. If we can get > the details down on "paper," we add substantially to the proposition > that Fedora is much more than just a distro. We can have a blueprint > for any similar project, or open-source business startup, or anyone who > wants to bootstrap their own community, to go from zero to sixty in > terms of supporting that community with the tools they need for > communication, coding, and presence. Certainly that could take more > than six months, but it's a great time to get that off the ground. > > -- > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > I would like to help out with the infra-structure docs, so count me in. -Jason From andres at villarrealpouw.name Tue May 20 16:56:16 2008 From: andres at villarrealpouw.name (Andres Villarreal) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 11:56:16 -0500 Subject: New Member: Andres Villarreal, an MEE from Rice University and a self instructed "expert" in Linux Message-ID: <483302B0.4040302@villarrealpouw.name> ** My submission: * Full legal name : Andres Villarreal * City, Country: Bogot?, Colombia * Computer Scientist and MEE in Computer Engineering * Independent consultant for various small and mid size companies * Your goals in the Fedora Project o I am interested in helping people like me in the first steps of making things work. o I have suffered enough with the howto pages that are anywhere from great to abysmal and from up to date to obsolete, and I think Fedora is the right place to put my experience to use. o I am also interested in maintaining packages, but want to start here. * Historical qualifications o As a self-taught Linux enthusiast I think I can see where the documentation is just a little bit short of being correct and useful, so I think my lack of a list of courses is a good thing. o I am a skilled programmer in several languages and an expert in networking. o And, I have better than average English skills. * GPG KEYID and fingerprint o pub 1024D/F6C81882 2008-05-20 Key fingerprint = 6D90 EC88 7422 A029 01E6 D790 9A44 0143 F6C8 1882 uid Andres Villarreal sub 2048g/BA1AF386 2008-05-20 So, please tell me if my submission has any problems and I hope we will do some good together. Andres Villarreal. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 20 21:04:32 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 21:04:32 +0000 Subject: F10? In-Reply-To: <23b1fe6e0805200745h646ab57fxbc0ebe85c125528b@mail.gmail.com> References: <20080520034421.GG3540@Max> <1211283167.17352.5.camel@victoria> <23b1fe6e0805200745h646ab57fxbc0ebe85c125528b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1211317472.24852.224.camel@victoria> On Tue, 2008-05-20 at 10:45 -0400, Jason Taylor wrote: > On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 7:32 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 23:44 -0400, Ricky Zhou wrote: > >> On 2008-05-19 10:27:52 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: > >> > All in all I feel it was a good release. So my question to the team, what > >> > would you all like to see over the next 6 months? > >> * New wiki :-) > >> * More/better documentation > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > This is where Jef Spaleta's role-based SIG idea, and the Docs team's new > > direction, might be helpful. If we can get one or more people from Docs > > hooked up with this team to help, all the work can/should be done on the > > wiki. > > > > Mike and I have talked in the past about the fact that Fedora has a > > world-class infrastructure and the team to support it. If we can get > > the details down on "paper," we add substantially to the proposition > > that Fedora is much more than just a distro. We can have a blueprint > > for any similar project, or open-source business startup, or anyone who > > wants to bootstrap their own community, to go from zero to sixty in > > terms of supporting that community with the tools they need for > > communication, coding, and presence. Certainly that could take more > > than six months, but it's a great time to get that off the ground. > > > > I would like to help out with the infra-structure docs, so count me in. All you need to do to be counted is to show up at #fedora-admin (and/or fedora-infrastructure-list) and let people know you're interested. If you stay in touch with Murray, also on this list, you guys can team up for extra superpower! ;-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 20 22:17:24 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 15:17:24 -0700 Subject: open account requests Message-ID: <1211321844.18933.317.camel@calliope.phig.org> We're seeing more people joining Fedora and requesting to join various subprojects and SIGs. I suspect the ease of FAS2 combined with the fresh hoopla around the release has attracted people. Let's not disappoint them by leaving their request for a group in limbo. Yet ... Some people seem to be requesting group access without first knowing what a group is or what they need to do, such as send a self-intro. My suggestion is to reject those after giving them sufficient time to do the self-intro etc. We definitely do not want to sponsor people just because they checked a box and clicked Submit. Save your sponsorship for people who really mean to be there. Also, I'm putting in an RFE for the account system to add a "reason" field with the rejection process[1], so we can explain why someone was rejected, such as not following the established process at ProjectName/Join. Meanwhile, it is probably a good practice to send an email to the person telling them they can re-apply after they follow the per-SIG/subproject steps for account access. - Karsten (I am sending this duplicate email to multiple locations that need to resolve this process.) [1] https://fedorahosted.org/fas/ticket/50 -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 21 00:04:08 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 17:04:08 -0700 Subject: New Member: Andres Villarreal, an MEE from Rice University and a self instructed "expert" in Linux In-Reply-To: <483302B0.4040302@villarrealpouw.name> References: <483302B0.4040302@villarrealpouw.name> Message-ID: <1211328248.18933.349.camel@calliope.phig.org> Andres, welcome! On Tue, 2008-05-20 at 11:56 -0500, Andres Villarreal wrote: > My submission: > * Full legal name : Andres Villarreal > * City, Country: Bogot?, Colombia > * Computer Scientist and MEE in Computer Engineering > * Independent consultant for various small and mid size > companies > * Your goals in the Fedora Project > * I am interested in helping people like me in the first > steps of making things work. > * I have suffered enough with the howto pages that are > anywhere from great to abysmal and from up to date to > obsolete, and I think Fedora is the right place to put > my experience to use. We are migrating our wiki next week to MediaWiki. After that, we are going to start having a lot more end-user how-to style of documentation featured there. That should make it easier to write up and maintain such content. > * I am also interested in maintaining packages, but want > to start here. A main goal of the Docs Project is to help other parts of the Fedora Project document themselves. Maybe you want to help with the Packager documentation? It would contribute to Packaging immediately while you learn how. Your interest and qualifications are most welcome. - Karsten > * Historical qualifications > * As a self-taught Linux enthusiast I think I can see > where the documentation is just a little bit short of > being correct and useful, so I think my lack of a list > of courses is a good thing. > * I am a skilled programmer in several languages and an > expert in networking. > * And, I have better than average English skills. > * GPG KEYID and fingerprint > * pub 1024D/F6C81882 2008-05-20 > Key fingerprint = 6D90 EC88 7422 A029 01E6 D790 > 9A44 0143 F6C8 1882 > uid Andres Villarreal > > sub 2048g/BA1AF386 2008-05-20 > So, please tell me if my submission has any problems and I hope we > will do some good together. > > Andres Villarreal. > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 21 00:19:23 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 17:19:23 -0700 Subject: F10? In-Reply-To: <1211317472.24852.224.camel@victoria> References: <20080520034421.GG3540@Max> <1211283167.17352.5.camel@victoria> <23b1fe6e0805200745h646ab57fxbc0ebe85c125528b@mail.gmail.com> <1211317472.24852.224.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <1211329163.18933.351.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, 2008-05-20 at 21:04 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > All you need to do to be counted is to show up at #fedora-admin (and/or > fedora-infrastructure-list) and let people know you're interested. If > you stay in touch with Murray, also on this list, you guys can team up > for extra superpower! ;-) OTOH, we do need to track what we are doing in this regard: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/SIGSupport But ... there is a mix of what are SIGs and what are subprojects. We'll have to sort this out over time. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From balajig81 at gmail.com Wed May 21 07:21:45 2008 From: balajig81 at gmail.com (G) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 12:51:45 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Balaji Message-ID: <6dd1343e0805210021g8a97938nd2b5d6846652bf0@mail.gmail.com> Hi everyone My name is Balaji and i live in chennai which is a city in India. i am a software developer working for a private firm in chennai. I ve been contribtuting to fedora as a member of the bug-triage team, Testing packages from the bodhi repository and also as one of the Fedora-Ambassadors for chennai. I ve not yet got an opportunity to work on the docs section in an other project till date, though i ve submitted a how-to to Fedora unity when i was just an user of the fedora :).This is the How-To which i had written some months back.( http://fedorasolved.org/installation-solutions/UML-Linux-Install ).Now that i ve become part of the contributors team i would like to extend my contributions to the fedora-docs community by writing/editing/reviewing the documents and give suggestions and help in all ways i possibly could. I am also looking at areas where Fedora could provide more documents to the users/developers too. I am excited to be part of this journey and this team and really look forward to working with this team. PS: I am sorry Karsten. I had applied for the CVS docs account few days back and then couldnt complete the required formalities. Cheers, Balaji From jfearn at redhat.com Wed May 21 07:29:34 2008 From: jfearn at redhat.com (Jeff Fearn) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 17:29:34 +1000 Subject: toolchain rock-up In-Reply-To: <1210949337.3681.88.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1210949337.3681.88.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4833CF5E.9000707@redhat.com> Hi, here is some feedback for people to chew on before the meeting. Hopefully it will minimize time spent on points that are already know, get people to think of some other questions to ask, and help people gather relevant information where required. Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > We've been talking about rocking up our toolchain by integrating > Publican[1]. We need to set up some tests to be able to confirm if the > tool does what we need, technically, socially, and communally. > > Please add yours to the list below, then we can throw it in a wiki page > to start working against. > > = Technical = > > * Does it fulfill all the current tool's capabilities? > - These need to be defined and listed as specific tests You need to know which of those capabilities are must haves and which are niceties. > * Is it built on sound technology with a future? The current system is tightly bound to CVS ... please, let CVS die quietly, it has earned its rest. Publican uses standard Linux technologies and FOP. If anyone makes a better PDF generator than FOP it will get assessed by the publican team _immediately_!!111! > * ... > > = Social = > > * Is there an active upstream? Bugs against Publican have already being lodged and fixed in the Fedora Bugzilla. > * Is upstream responsive to Fedora Docs? See above. > * Is the upstream work in the open? Publican development is hosted on fedorahosted.org. > * Can anyone (theoretically) join the upstream work? Theoretically anyone with a FAS account can join the Publican team. > * Is there a role Fedora Docs should take in the upstream? What role does Fedora docs take in other upstream packages? > * ... > > = Communal = > > * Is there a Fedora packager? There is no packager for the current system. Since publican is packaged in Fedora (8, 9 & devel) this question would seem to have an answer. > * Is it maintained for EPEL as well? You mean packaged. The current system is not packaged for EPEL. Publican has been built in plague for EPEL 4 & 5, the packages are waiting to be pushed to the repos. > * Do other parts of Fedora want to use this tool? Which other parts of Fedora use the current tool? Several Fedora projects, e.g. Fedora Directory Server & Fedora IPA etc, either already use publican or are having their documentation migrated to publican. > * Is there value-add from Fedora Docs to make it worth promoting the > integrated set (Fedora Docs + Publican)? > > * Does Fedora Docs want to create and maintain a "Content Producer > Spin"? Cheers, Jeff. -- Jeff Fearn Software Engineer Engineering Operations Red Hat, Inc From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed May 21 10:12:21 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 20:12:21 +1000 Subject: Fedora 9 release notes schedule Message-ID: <95f1114b0805210312x4596a8c2r541ac8654a46eac1@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I updated https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule/9 to reflect weekend's activities. I do not know when " XY May 2008 fedora-release-notes package RC to Fedora release engineering" is, and someone already added " 30 May 2008 fedora-release-notes package update ". What is the latter? All PO files have been updated for BZ 447193, and I'm fairly confident I didn't break any of them... Thanks, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 21 13:38:15 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 06:38:15 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Balaji In-Reply-To: <6dd1343e0805210021g8a97938nd2b5d6846652bf0@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dd1343e0805210021g8a97938nd2b5d6846652bf0@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1211377095.18933.381.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-05-21 at 12:51 +0530, "G" wrote: > Hi everyone > > My name is Balaji and i live in chennai which is a city in India. i am > a software developer working for a private firm in chennai. I ve been > contribtuting to fedora as a member of the bug-triage team, Testing > packages from the bodhi repository and also as one of the > Fedora-Ambassadors for chennai. I ve not yet got an opportunity to > work on the docs section in an other project till date, though i ve > submitted a how-to to Fedora unity when i was just an user of the > fedora :).This is the How-To which i had written some months back.( > http://fedorasolved.org/installation-solutions/UML-Linux-Install ).Now > that i ve become part of the contributors team i would like to extend > my contributions to the fedora-docs community by > writing/editing/reviewing the documents and give suggestions and help > in all ways i possibly could. I am also looking at areas where Fedora > could provide more documents to the users/developers too. I am excited > to be part of this journey and this team and really look forward to > working with this team. Balaji: Welcome! Thanks for your self-introduction. The next month is going to be very interesting in Fedora Docs, as we migrate to the new wiki, take on a larger role with that, and work on contributor-focused documentation as well as end-user-focused. You've picked a good time to come help. :) > PS: I am sorry Karsten. I had applied for the CVS docs account few > days back and then couldnt complete the required formalities. No worries! It had my intended effect -- cleared the queue and got anyone who really meant it (you) to follow-up. I appreciate that you didn't feel rejected but came back. Again, welcome. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jaredsmith at jaredsmith.net Wed May 21 18:49:41 2008 From: jaredsmith at jaredsmith.net (Jared Smith) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:49:41 -0700 Subject: F10? In-Reply-To: <1211283167.17352.5.camel@victoria> References: <20080520034421.GG3540@Max> <1211283167.17352.5.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <1211395781.12276.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2008-05-20 at 07:32 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > This is where Jef Spaleta's role-based SIG idea, and the Docs team's > new direction, might be helpful. If we can get one or more people > from Docs hooked up with this team to help, all the work can/should be > done on the wiki. I'd also be willing to step up to the plate and help out with this... -Jared From eric at christensenplace.us Wed May 21 22:24:39 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 18:24:39 -0400 Subject: F10? Message-ID: <20200546.123581211408679406.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> I just updated the SIG list. All the SIGs that I could find are now on the list. Eric > >On Tue, 2008-05-20 at 21:04 +0000, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> All you need to do to be counted is to show up at #fedora-admin (and/or >> fedora-infrastructure-list) and let people know you're interested. If >> you stay in touch with Murray, also on this list, you guys can team up >> for extra superpower! ;-) > >OTOH, we do need to track what we are doing in this regard: > >http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/SIGSupport > >But ... there is a mix of what are SIGs and what are subprojects. We'll >have to sort this out over time. > >- Karsten >-- >Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. >Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com >Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org >gpg key : AD0E0C41 > >-- >fedora-docs-list mailing list >fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >To unsubscribe: >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From balajig81 at gmail.com Thu May 22 05:38:16 2008 From: balajig81 at gmail.com (G) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:08:16 +0530 Subject: Self-Introduction: Balaji In-Reply-To: <1211377095.18933.381.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <6dd1343e0805210021g8a97938nd2b5d6846652bf0@mail.gmail.com> <1211377095.18933.381.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <6dd1343e0805212238o49ce0a9aqaa52ff5c41201192@mail.gmail.com> Hi Karsten > Welcome! Thanks for your self-introduction. The next month is going to > be very interesting in Fedora Docs, as we migrate to the new wiki, take > on a larger role with that, and work on contributor-focused > documentation as well as end-user-focused. You've picked a good time to > come help. :) Thanks for welcoming me and i really look forward it and it would be really good if you could tell me the things that are happening with the migration to the new wiki and i did read the post of Jon Stanley with respect to the move to the new wiki in planet fedora. I am also sure that there would have been some mail threads on the same too so it would be of real good help for me if you could give me the info on the things thats going on with respect to the migration. Thanks once again and i really look forward for working with this team :) Cheers, Balaji On 5/21/08, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-05-21 at 12:51 +0530, "G" wrote: > > Hi everyone > > > > My name is Balaji and i live in chennai which is a city in India. i am > > a software developer working for a private firm in chennai. I ve been > > contribtuting to fedora as a member of the bug-triage team, Testing > > packages from the bodhi repository and also as one of the > > Fedora-Ambassadors for chennai. I ve not yet got an opportunity to > > work on the docs section in an other project till date, though i ve > > submitted a how-to to Fedora unity when i was just an user of the > > fedora :).This is the How-To which i had written some months back.( > > http://fedorasolved.org/installation-solutions/UML-Linux-Install ).Now > > that i ve become part of the contributors team i would like to extend > > my contributions to the fedora-docs community by > > writing/editing/reviewing the documents and give suggestions and help > > in all ways i possibly could. I am also looking at areas where Fedora > > could provide more documents to the users/developers too. I am excited > > to be part of this journey and this team and really look forward to > > working with this team. > > > Balaji: > > Welcome! Thanks for your self-introduction. The next month is going to > be very interesting in Fedora Docs, as we migrate to the new wiki, take > on a larger role with that, and work on contributor-focused > documentation as well as end-user-focused. You've picked a good time to > come help. :) > > > > PS: I am sorry Karsten. I had applied for the CVS docs account few > > days back and then couldnt complete the required formalities. > > > No worries! It had my intended effect -- cleared the queue and got > anyone who really meant it (you) to follow-up. I appreciate that you > didn't feel rejected but came back. Again, welcome. > > cheers - Karsten > > -- > Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. > Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com > Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org > gpg key : AD0E0C41 > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > From jonstanley at gmail.com Thu May 22 06:12:46 2008 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 02:12:46 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction: Balaji In-Reply-To: <6dd1343e0805212238o49ce0a9aqaa52ff5c41201192@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dd1343e0805210021g8a97938nd2b5d6846652bf0@mail.gmail.com> <1211377095.18933.381.camel@calliope.phig.org> <6dd1343e0805212238o49ce0a9aqaa52ff5c41201192@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, May 22, 2008 at 1:38 AM, G wrote: > Thanks for welcoming me and i really look forward it and it would be > really good if you could tell me the things that are happening with > the migration to the new wiki and i did read the post of Jon Stanley > with respect to the move to the new wiki in planet fedora. I am also > sure that there would have been some mail threads on the same too so > it would be of real good help for me if you could give me the info on > the things thats going on with respect to the migration. Most of the goings on can be seen at https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/31 - if there's something more that you need to know, feel free to let us know! From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 22 06:40:33 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 23:40:33 -0700 Subject: Docs toolchain meeting(s) start this Fri 0100 UTC Message-ID: <1211438433.3558.50.camel@calliope.phig.org> We discussed previously[1] meeting with various interested parties about the current and future Fedora Docs toolchain. From the previous discussion, our initial meeting is: #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net Friday 23 May 0100 UTC 11:00 Brisbane Thursday 22 May 9:00pm US/Eastern 6:00pm US/Pacific This time best accommodates the two centers of toolchain activity currently, the continental US and APAC, in particular Brisbane, AU. We can plan on having a weekly meeting until we feel it needs to stop. These meetings are a good chance for Publican upstream, Fedora Docs toolchain upstream, and Fedora L10n to work on integration issues. Topics: 0. F10 toolchain goals? 1. Fix lingering problems - Problems in the existing toolchain - List and define - What is fixed by ripping and replacing with Publican? - Is there any advantage to leaving the passivetex chain? 2. Make enhancements for usability - Related to the toolchain overall 3. Integrate publican - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00042.html - https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00077.html 4. Make sure any changes integrate well with L10N Toolchain - DamnedLies, Transifex, and ? 5. Others? thanks - Karsten [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-April/msg00010.html -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 22 08:50:38 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 01:50:38 -0700 Subject: toolchain rock-up In-Reply-To: <4833CF5E.9000707@redhat.com> References: <1210949337.3681.88.camel@calliope.phig.org> <4833CF5E.9000707@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1211446238.3558.89.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, 2008-05-21 at 17:29 +1000, Jeff Fearn wrote: > Hi, here is some feedback for people to chew on before the meeting. > > Hopefully it will minimize time spent on points that are already know, > get people to think of some other questions to ask, and help people > gather relevant information where required. Thanks. > Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > We've been talking about rocking up our toolchain by integrating > > Publican[1]. We need to set up some tests to be able to confirm if > the > > tool does what we need, technically, socially, and communally. > > > > Please add yours to the list below, then we can throw it in a wiki > page > > to start working against. > > > > = Technical = > > > > * Does it fulfill all the current tool's capabilities? > > - These need to be defined and listed as specific tests > > You need to know which of those capabilities are must haves and which > are niceties. I'll be surprised if we've baked any niceties in; it's a fairly sparse toolchain. The 'docs-common' tools mainly build output from input XML. However, there are a few bits that are Fedora-specific, such as how we generate an RPM and SRPM for the release builds, desktop files, etc. In many cases, I expect we'll just call Publican's make instead. > > * Is it built on sound technology with a future? > > The current system is tightly bound to CVS ... please, let CVS die > quietly, it has earned its rest. There are separate issues here. We cannot separate the need to maintain packages such as fedora-release-notes in CVS. However, last week we agreed to stop pushing new books in to CVS and to let them form one-project-per-book on fedorahosted.org. Once we give the toolchain it's own fh.o project space, we can retire most of our CVS usage. > Publican uses standard Linux technologies and FOP. If anyone makes a > better PDF generator than FOP it will get assessed by the publican > team _immediately_!!111! +1 ... you know you don't have to convince me here. :) Anyway, yes, that is a good answer to that checklist item. > > * ... > > > > = Social = > > > > * Is there an active upstream? > > Bugs against Publican have already being lodged and fixed in the > Fedora Bugzilla. > > > * Is upstream responsive to Fedora Docs? > > See above. +1 on both from what I've seen so far. > > * Is the upstream work in the open? > > Publican development is hosted on fedorahosted.org. > > > * Can anyone (theoretically) join the upstream work? > > Theoretically anyone with a FAS account can join the Publican team. > > > * Is there a role Fedora Docs should take in the upstream? > > What role does Fedora docs take in other upstream packages? * We contributed the original patch to xmlto to support FOP * We've been highly active with the Fedora Java folks to get FOP packaged and supported in Fedora * Worked with MoinMoin on Google Summer of Code dev project * Other small bugfixes, iirc ... Like other parts of Fedora, we see the value in remaining active with the upstream, no matter the outcome. > > * ... > > > > = Communal = > > > > * Is there a Fedora packager? > > There is no packager for the current system. > > Since publican is packaged in Fedora (8, 9 & devel) this question > would seem to have an answer. > > > * Is it maintained for EPEL as well? > > You mean packaged. The current system is not packaged for EPEL. "Maintain a package," yes. > Publican has been built in plague for EPEL 4 & 5, the packages are > waiting to be pushed to the repos. Sweet. > > * Do other parts of Fedora want to use this tool? > > Which other parts of Fedora use the current tool? > > Several Fedora projects, e.g. Fedora Directory Server & Fedora IPA > etc, either already use publican or are having their documentation > migrated to publican. That's good news, thanks. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Thu May 22 09:21:03 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 11:21:03 +0200 Subject: Update wiki pages? Message-ID: <64b14b300805220221x4fbd4822rff3e862238fb373b@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I see no update for Fedora 9 on these pages so I'm wondering why is that because it is confusing. If there should be content regarding Fedora 9 there why isn't it there? If these pages are obsolete should they be deleted? Here are the pages: http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CustomSpins Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu May 22 09:28:53 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 14:58:53 +0530 Subject: Update wiki pages? In-Reply-To: <64b14b300805220221x4fbd4822rff3e862238fb373b@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300805220221x4fbd4822rff3e862238fb373b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48353CD5.6060906@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > Hi, > I see no update for Fedora 9 on these pages so I'm wondering why is > that because it is confusing. If there should be content regarding > Fedora 9 there why isn't it there? If these pages are obsolete should > they be deleted? > > Here are the pages: > http://spins.fedoraproject.org/ > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/CustomSpins No Fedora 9 spins have been composed by release engineering yet and hence there is nothing to update. The first page is managed by Fedora infrastructure and second page is a wiki managed by the community. Docs project isn't responsible for either. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 23 02:43:33 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 22:43:33 -0400 Subject: Toolchain meeting 2008-05-22 IRC log Message-ID: <1211510613.18404.1.camel@victoria> [22 May 21:05] * stickster here [22 May 21:05] [22 May 21:05] * jsmith here [22 May 21:05] jfearn, here [22 May 21:05] jsmith: MOIN! [22 May 21:06] Howdy mdious [22 May 21:06] Howdy jfearn [22 May 21:06] hello folks :) [22 May 21:07] [22 May 21:07] * jmtaylor waves and sits back down [22 May 21:07] morning [22 May 21:07] jsmith, g'day :0 [22 May 21:07] All righty, no quaid I guess [22 May 21:08] He was having some router problems earlier today, maybe he took the hammer to it. [22 May 21:08] What we want to do here is figure out where to go with the docs toolchain. [22 May 21:09] The whole Fedora Docs Project is being revamped to an extent [22 May 21:09] And what we were going to try to do is move any large docs people want to maintain out into their own hosted projects. [22 May 21:10] That way a community can gather around them independently of the CVS and toolchain we've loped along with for years. [22 May 21:10] The question remains, what in our toolchain is worth keeping? [22 May 21:11] i.e., things where we can just plug in publican, for example [22 May 21:11] Well, I think (from my own experience) that there's probably a lot worth keeping (or incorporating into Publican)... I just don't know it as well as I do Publican [22 May 21:11] Last I heard from quaid, he was worried about the translation stuff [22 May 21:11] There's a few clever bits in it, I'm pretty sure, thanks to people who worked on it in the past [22 May 21:11] I think the release notes wiki/xml scripts are worth keeping around.... [22 May 21:12] So our toolchain is basically bound up in the docs-common module in our CVS right now. [22 May 21:13] moving away from wiki is a good thing. publican is certainly easier for i18n [22 May 21:14] Tsagadai: Well, I'm not sure we're looking at moving away from the wiki for things like the release notes [22 May 21:14] In fact, we're looking at extending MediaWiki i18n [22 May 21:14] (not Docs, but the Websites guys) [22 May 21:14] I like your idea of individual docs projects, stickster. guides are quite different from release notes [22 May 21:15] publican is easier for translation from the aspect of checking out the whole project from VCS. the current toolchain integrates better with the current translation statistics/transifex system. The transifex developers are working on addressing the issue :) [22 May 21:15] The release notes, as I see it, are sort of an animal on their own. [22 May 21:15] opensuse wiki is fully localized - very hawt hawt hawt: http://www.opensuse.org/ [22 May 21:15] mdious: Actually, if you look at their process -- it's all manual! [22 May 21:15] We want to find a way to do MediaWiki in an i18n-friendly way [22 May 21:16] individual docs projects might be less daunting for new contributors... [22 May 21:16] I think we might try to get OpenSuSE to put some muscle into it too [22 May 21:16] ryanlerch: I agree. [22 May 21:16] So each of these "book" (or sizable "article") projects could be a fedorahosted.org project. [22 May 21:17] Then the *Fedora installable part* could be in the regular Fedora source code management, the same way any other package is. [22 May 21:18] A spec file, BuildRequires: publican, etc., and it can be maintained, built, and shipped in Fedora. [22 May 21:18] The "upstream" for that package would be at fedorahosted.org [22 May 21:18] publican can spit out spec and srpms based on the docbook [22 May 21:19] ryanlerch: you're such a publican and graphics ninja, when will you be sitting next to me at work... [22 May 21:19] We could check that out with the package maintainer folks [22 May 21:20] I have a feeling that for consistency, anything we want to roll in the distro would need to have a specfile sitting in the Packages CVS [22 May 21:20] (which hopefully will be replaced some day not too far off with a better SCM) [22 May 21:20] stickster, sure, but you create it from you book source and check it in to the CVS repo for building [22 May 21:21] jfearn: Exactly what I was thinking [22 May 21:21] And I suppose there's no harm in it being duplicated in the fedorahosted tree because other downstreams (like opensuse) could use it if desired. [22 May 21:21] sorry, "it" == "spec file" [22 May 21:22] The point being, we really need to decouple our toolchain from the docs themselves. [22 May 21:22] Exactly... [22 May 21:22] What I think we need help with is going through the stuff in docs-common, characterizing it, and finding out where there are potential things we could RFE into publican [22 May 21:23] If someone wants to spin off some other toolchain, the more the merrier [22 May 21:23] andyfitz was saying http://scenari-platform.org/projects/scenari/en/pres/co/ this is good.... [22 May 21:23] (http://scenari-platform.org/trac/scenari/wiki/SCENARIbuilder) [22 May 21:24] that scenari looks rockin for interactive stuff [22 May 21:25] Is that open source? [22 May 21:25] stickster, yeah, gpl [22 May 21:25] * stickster having a hard time digging through the flashy site :-D [22 May 21:25] french only though atm? [22 May 21:26] Um... holy crap [22 May 21:26] jmtaylor: the error messages are a bit hard to decode... [22 May 21:26] that's pretty wild [22 May 21:26] mdious: I bet :) [22 May 21:26] the up to date content is in french [22 May 21:26] *** You disconnected [22 May 21:26] *** You connected [22 May 21:26] I think if you want to try it, go for http://scenari-platform.org/projects/scenari/files/SCENARIchain/lin/latestStable/ ;) [22 May 21:27] and their upstream format is not exactly docbook [22 May 21:27] but their editor is what im keen on [22 May 21:27] its xul [22 May 21:27] Whoops [22 May 21:27] definately neat [22 May 21:27] is a _good_ visual editor [22 May 21:27] I could imagine a whole website dedicated to interactive walk throughs based on that [22 May 21:28] The interactive training bit seems pretty interesting to me [22 May 21:28] All right, well back to the agenda here [22 May 21:29] So some of the things that we might want to capture from the existing toolchain are... (anyone pitch in as desired) [22 May 21:29] jfearn: How does publican handle OMF creation? [22 May 21:30] * stickster will continue asking dummy questions, be warned... [22 May 21:30] stickster, it has a stub atm, not well tested [22 May 21:31] We create OMF's using just some XSLT IIRC [22 May 21:31] [22 May 21:31] * jsmith wishes Conglomerate were a bit more robust [22 May 21:32] * stickster hands jsmith a long, white beard. [22 May 21:32] conglomerate is the biggest tease to every technical writer... hence my interest in the senari designer [22 May 21:32] OMF? [22 May 21:33] stickster, we switched to html-single for desktop docs, the OMF stuff would be easy to fix if you want xml on the gnome desktop [22 May 21:33] [22 May 21:33] * jsmith can't remember what OMF stands for [22 May 21:33] Object Metadata Framework? [22 May 21:33] * stickster digs back into cobwebs of brain [22 May 21:33] It's basically a metadata container about another data file [22 May 21:34] In this case, scrollkeeper uses OMF to record documentation available on your system [22 May 21:34] GNOME Help Viewer (yelp) scans these to present docs in the Help browser [22 May 21:34] Ah, gotcha [22 May 21:35] I knew I'd heard the acronym before [22 May 21:35] jfearn: Something else that might be useful is the SVG idea for logos or such [22 May 21:35] We have some bits in docs-common/images/ that we used for the watermarks [22 May 21:36] A possible application might be SVG based diagrams that you want to include in a document but still have it translated [22 May 21:37] There might be some hurdles there but it's a thought [22 May 21:37] stickster, publican handles per-brand and per-language image files [22 May 21:37] not many, gnome doc utils makes translating svg easy [22 May 21:37] jfearn: How are those image files created? [22 May 21:38] inkscape [22 May 21:38] stickster, by andyfitz ;) [22 May 21:38] haha [22 May 21:38] So they're stored with a publican doc as .svg? [22 May 21:39] stickster, yeah [22 May 21:39] awesome [22 May 21:39] * stickster continues asking more Publican 101 questions. [22 May 21:40] jfearn: Is publican pretty much DocBook version-agnostic at this point? [22 May 21:40] in a typical pulican workflow, content is docbook xml and images are svg xml.. both can be translated and rendered to different formats together or apart [22 May 21:40] [22 May 21:40] * mdious glares at Red Hat campers [22 May 21:40] andyfitz: Exactly what I was hoping for, cool. [22 May 21:40] stickster, yes, but it deafults to 4.5 [22 May 21:40] Cool, so XInclude support is there. [22 May 21:41] stickster, oh yeah [22 May 21:42] jsmith: What were some of the things you saw in the current F-Docs toolchain that we would want to capture? [22 May 21:45] jfearn: Seems to me we could continue to build HTML copies, apply CSS, and publish as needed, just as you guys do I'm sure [22 May 21:45] stickster, you just set your barnd to fedora and you have the whole payload [22 May 21:45] brand [22 May 21:45] Here's what I'm thinking... maybe we should try doing this with the documentation-guide as a test doc. [22 May 21:46] I think the release notes are pretty much the oddball when it comes to our documentation modules, overall. [22 May 21:46] Oh wait. [22 May 21:46] What I just said makes absolutely no sense. [22 May 21:46] Because the whole guide will essentially be wrong as soon as we start in on it! [22 May 21:47] Maybe instead we could try something like the rpm guide. [22 May 21:47] AHA! [22 May 21:47] stickster, I already did the rpm guide, so that is a good choice :P [22 May 21:47] Well, phooey. [22 May 21:47] Oh, you mean you tested on it? [22 May 21:47] * stickster thought for a minute it was already out there in fedorahosted land and he misse dit [22 May 21:48] stickster, I ported it to publican, but it doesn't have any translations so it's easy [22 May 21:48] [22 May 21:48] * quaid stumbles in after beating his network into submission [22 May 21:48] jfearn: So we should go to Phase II, which is moving that puppy to fedorahosted.org. [22 May 21:48] sorry, 'twas unavoidable [22 May 21:48] quaid: np, there's a big buffer waiting for you though :-D [22 May 21:49] jfearn: we could put it in git! w00t [22 May 21:49] Anyhow, once we have that set up, we could do a standard package review bug entry in bugzilla, get the package approved, and try this out. [22 May 21:49] stickster, lol, yeah we could [22 May 21:50] The fedorahosted site would include instructions for how to download and contribute to the doc, with a few easy commands. [22 May 21:51] Bingo, spread the docs work out to the community. [22 May 21:51] stickster, git might be a big step for some contributers [22 May 21:51] Yeah, I was kinda joking ;-) [22 May 21:51] SVN though. Please for the love of all that's holy, no CVS. [22 May 21:52] yeah, SVN is the ... comfortable choice [22 May 21:52] jfearn: maybe you could open source the svn tutorial we have here :P [22 May 21:52] and build it with publican [22 May 21:52] I've been getting to know git, and if you're just doing work like you would in SVN, there's really no more of a bar there. [22 May 21:52] But that's a sidebar... SVN is peachy for me. [22 May 21:53] (weeds) [22 May 21:53] OK, so what're our next actions then? [22 May 21:54] [22 May 21:54] * quaid is all caught up on buffer [22 May 21:54] 1. Get a fedorahosted project for rpm-guide (SVN preferably) [22 May 21:54] 2. Enter the doc there [22 May 21:54] & make sure it builds as needed [22 May 21:55] 0. find a _writer_ to own the package, since we want to test how it works for the target audience [22 May 21:55] jfearn: Ah, thank you, that's right -- we no longer have that maintainer around these parts. [22 May 21:56] maybe we need an active doc then [22 May 21:56] software management guide, for example [22 May 21:56] does it have translations? [22 May 21:56] I believe so [22 May 21:56] rock [22 May 21:57] brb [22 May 21:58] also, don't we want a new fh.o project for docs-common? [22 May 21:58] give it a new name and start tearing it apart [22 May 21:58] or are you thinking we won't need a wrapper toolchain [22 May 21:58] quaid: You know, I've been looking at it on and off for the past few hours [22 May 21:58] and push RFEs into publican? [22 May 21:58] quaid: And I think most of it, honestly? is "file 13" fodder. [22 May 21:59] And that's tough to say, seeing how many hours of my life I spent figuring it out and then trying to keep it working over the past two+ years. [22 May 21:59] But hey! It was a great learning experience. :-D [22 May 21:59] oh, sure, everything from the garden [22 May 21:59] turns into compost [22 May 21:59] or [22 May 22:00] quaid: wrapper toolchain? [22 May 22:00] oh, wait, [22 May 22:00] is this a mixed channel? [22 May 22:00] [22 May 22:00] * quaid won't say what else the garden turns into then [22 May 22:00] it would probably be a good idea to spin publican-fedora in to a seperate project and hand that over to the fedora docs team [22 May 22:00] -1 [22 May 22:00] Yeah, sounds forky to me [22 May 22:00] we can't maintain an upstream like that [22 May 22:01] OK, but that is the equiv of docs-common in publican [22 May 22:01] Why wouldn't we want to have a joint upstream project like a freeIPA or whatever? [22 May 22:01] This doesn't have to turn into, for example, "Dump bugs on jfearn, woohoo" [22 May 22:02] stickster, well publican-fedora is the fedora specifc branding of publican output [22 May 22:02] right, we have resources to help with upstream [22 May 22:02] that is the Fedora way, not to own the upsteam (per se), but to work there actively. [22 May 22:03] Yeah, I think we should definitely provide resources to participate [22 May 22:04] no problem, it's just that a seperate docs-common package is basically what publican-fedora is :) [22 May 22:04] Yeah [22 May 22:04] I think what I'm saying is, I'm at a point where I want to "call it a day" with the old docs-common [22 May 22:04] [22 May 22:04] * jfearn fetches the shovel [22 May 22:04] right O [22 May 22:05] compost and ... other stuff [22 May 22:05] I still think that relying on the kdesdk-utils is a much heavier footprint for this stuff, but meh. [22 May 22:05] If someone *really* cares about it, let them port it or whatever. [22 May 22:05] stickster, there is a bug opened to split out the two binaries we use from that [22 May 22:06] jfearn: Actually, that's done [22 May 22:06] stickster, yay! [22 May 22:06] kdesdk-utils now exists, only contains those two [22 May 22:06] That's why I was trying to rebuild publican here -- testing a specfile patch [22 May 22:06] stickster, it shouldn't need a pacth since it requires the files not a package [22 May 22:07] jfearn: Did I forget to update? [22 May 22:07] my typing is extra lysdexic today :/ [22 May 22:07] jfearn: Hm, in the F-9 branch it's still 'Requires: kdesdk' [22 May 22:07] stickster, ahh no, it's fixed in the new version in SVN [22 May 22:07] Aha [22 May 22:08] jfearn: So what I did was basically just to make that 'kdesdk-utils' and move on [22 May 22:08] fixed: upstream :P [22 May 22:08] stickster, yeah [22 May 22:09] although the build is busted in F9 for some reason :/ [22 May 22:09] jfearn: That's what I was encountering, I'm pretty sure ;-) [22 May 22:09] mmm, these cornflakes are super good today [22 May 22:10] * stickster throws ice cream at mdious [22 May 22:10] stickster, funny it built in dvel before the cvs update [22 May 22:10] nom nom nom [22 May 22:10] So quaid -- maybe that is a list topic then -- who will own the SMG in fedorahosted? [22 May 22:10] jsmith did the new porting of content [22 May 22:11] mdious don't make me tell susan :D [22 May 22:11] but he's awful busy these days. [22 May 22:11] Tsagadai: just don't tell her I have banana on them too.... [22 May 22:12] quaid: We need someone who's capable of recording the tasks of putting a doc into fedorahosted, I suppose -- that would be something we'd want to have in our process doc. [22 May 22:12] stickster: if jsmith is too busy I would be willing [22 May 22:12] jmtaylor: ^^^ [22 May 22:13] jmtaylor: So you'd approach this from the standpoint of, "I'm a new writer, how do I put a doc I've made (publican or otherwise) somewhere the community can work on it with me?" [22 May 22:13] And as questions arise, we all help find the answers and you scribble them down for later use by every other guy who comes after :-D [22 May 22:14] That becomes the basis for new content in the Documentation Guide. [22 May 22:14] Get it? [22 May 22:14] stickster: since we are at ground zero, makes sense to me [22 May 22:14] :-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri May 23 03:38:07 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 20:38:07 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-05-21 IRC log Message-ID: <1211513887.3443.23.camel@calliope.phig.org> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20080520 12:02 < quaid> 12:02 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo hangin' out -- roll call and opening number 12:03 < quaid> KarstenWade, estoy aqui 12:03 * stickster present and accounted for 12:03 * couf 12:03 < jsmith> JaredSmith... estoy aqui tambien 12:03 < jsmith> (Well, for various definitions of "here") 12:04 < quaid> ok, I have weird networking stuff but this ssh seems ok, so ... 12:05 * jsmith twiddles the bits on quaid's router 12:05 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo talking -- Elections 12:05 < stickster> Ah, elections. 12:05 -!- mbonnet [n=mikeb at c-24-218-108-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:06 -!- mbonnet [n=mikeb at c-24-218-108-40.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:06 -!- dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone 12:06 * stickster hopes quaid didn't disappera 12:06 < quaid> no, I'm here 12:06 < stickster> From the Spanish for "disappear." (apologies.0 12:06 < quaid> I want to troubleshoot but then I'd drop 12:07 -!- Southern_Gentlem [n=notfred at unaffiliated/southerngentlem/x-2894754] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:08 < quaid> ok, anyway 12:08 -!- SMParrish [n=steven at cpe-069-134-255-095.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:08 < quaid> I'm beginning to feel like we have too many elections around here :) 12:08 -!- Irssi: #fedora-meeting: Total of 100 nicks [1 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 99 normal] 12:08 -!- SMParrish [n=steven at cpe-069-134-255-095.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:08 < couf> I second that 12:08 < quaid> and I'm a bit unclear if we have achieved the steps to setup a new Chair around here. 12:09 < quaid> so I'm open for discussion on the topic in that vein and others 12:10 < couf> unfortunately the new-to-be chair isn't around :-/ 12:10 < stickster> Yeah, it's difficult to have this conversation without him 12:11 < quaid> ok 12:11 < stickster> Has anyone thought about Docs in light of Jef Spaleta's role-based SIG idea, and whether we might actually enjoy *better* success -- and a better ruler against which to measure ourselves -- as a SIG? 12:11 < stickster> That could be total crazy talk. 12:11 < quaid> stickster: um, see ... 12:11 < quaid> that is crazy talk 12:11 < stickster> OK 12:12 < quaid> Docs is a clear example of a subproject 12:12 < quaid> in the role-based SIG world 12:12 < quaid> there would be a Documentor in each SIG focused on that SIG content 12:12 < quaid> and that person is *also* a memmber of the Docs Project (Subproj) 12:12 < quaid> make sense? 12:13 < Southern_Gentlem> or should be 12:13 < quaid> that said, we were discussing governance here a few hours ago, and Jeff didn't even know that we require elections for Projects 12:13 < quaid> Southern_Gentlem: refer to "in the role-based SIG world" 12:14 -!- giarc_w [i=hidden-u at gnat.asiscan.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:14 < couf> so basiclly we would be a resource subproject working for the SIGs? 12:15 < quaid> that's basically it 12:15 < stickster> Well, I think what quaid is saying is that we'd "embed" with them 12:15 < stickster> Is that a good characterization of it? 12:15 < quaid> sure 12:15 * couf tries to get the whole role-based SIG concept here 12:15 < couf> right, gotcha 12:15 < quaid> the idea is to get people working on what interests them 12:16 < quaid> and filling roles there more than "packaging" 12:17 < couf> +1 12:17 < quaid> so, elections and governance ... 12:17 < quaid> on-list? 12:17 < quaid> move to, that is 12:18 < stickster> +1 12:18 < couf> maybe, but we *should* get a clear POV from John, personal mail could help 12:18 < couf> just to make sure we don't keep pushing this back 12:20 -!- fraggle_ [n=fraggle at bea13-2-82-239-143-199.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["-ENOBRAIN"] 12:22 < Southern_Gentlem> what can be done to lower the barriers for people to get involved in the docs project 12:22 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.25.134] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:22 < jmbuser> JohnBabich late 12:23 < Southern_Gentlem> some people see it a litte extreme to have to get on cvs just to get a tutorial on how to do docs 12:23 < stickster> Southern_Gentlem: You missed last week's meeting :-) 12:23 < stickster> jmbuser! hi! 12:24 < quaid> hey jmbuser 12:24 < jmbuser> quaid: hey 12:24 < quaid> we're discussing governance 12:24 < jmbuser> stickster: hi 12:24 < jmbuser> carry on... 12:24 < stickster> Southern_Gentlem: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00032.html 12:24 < quaid> do we need elections, etc. 12:25 < quaid> this often, etc. 12:25 < quaid> I still think it might be an on list discussion 12:25 < quaid> to have. 12:27 < stickster> Me sees that 20 minutes have gone by one topic, and not much said about it. Sounds like a clear "silence gives consent" for the ML. 12:27 < quaid> right on 12:27 < jmbuser> +1 12:27 < quaid> elections discussion on list etc. 12:27 < lfoppiano> Hi all, sry fro delay.... 12:27 < lfoppiano> *for 12:28 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo chilling -- Relnotes, Guides, other content 12:28 -!- RodrigoPadula [n=RodrigoP at 189.25.241.29] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:29 < lfoppiano> uhm...I lost elections... .-/ 12:29 < lfoppiano> :s/lost/miss/g 12:29 < quaid> lfoppiano: we're moving the topic to the mailing list 12:29 < quaid> ok, wsa there something to sayabout the relnotes? 12:30 * quaid hsa to be excused for typos, bad connetion, no tim e to edit 12:30 < lfoppiano> no 12:30 < stickster> mdious has been keeping up with these, and we should have a new package rolled later in the week 12:30 < couf> mdious has been syncing in the last bits 12:30 < stickster> Or maybe weekend 12:31 < quaid> ok, UG and other end-user content is second priority after Fedora contributor-oriented content 12:31 < quaid> I created http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/SIGSupport 12:31 < quaid> just so we can track who is "embedded" where 12:32 < quaid> note that Docs is supporting any contributor area, SIG and subproject alike; just put it all on that one page for now. 12:33 < couf> do we want to formalize a process for these guys, and join-pages updates etc 12:33 * stickster has to make a call, will continue lurking here 12:34 < quaid> couf: we could; we also need to talk to the various grops and see what they want to do 12:34 < quaid> can someone add JohnStanley to that page as writing for BugTriage? 12:35 < couf> sure 12:36 < couf> that is if the wiki wants to let me 12:36 < quaid> it'll be better than what I have right now 12:36 * couf can't wait next weeks move 12:36 < quaid> so, update on that 12:37 < quaid> we are doing a premigration on the 23rd 12:37 < quaid> (barring problems) 12:37 < quaid> then doing a re-import of what has changed from 23 to 27 on the 27th 12:37 < quaid> that way we have some days to get things nicer before the actual migration is called 12:37 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk 12:37 < quaid> the old wiki will be up for some time in read-only, hidden from search engines mode 12:39 < couf> wow, fast save for slow wiki 12:39 < quaid> ok, so then the next thing is ... 12:39 < quaid> we need to tell folks that Docs is here to help them solve their internal docs problems 12:39 < quaid> maybe just make the GIG a first output along those lines 12:40 < quaid> so, let's add to that SIGSupport page a link to the section in the GIG that corresponds, so we can have the same people own that content creation 12:40 -!- jeff_hann [n=arares at 89.40.98.185] has quit [] 12:42 < couf> +1 12:43 < jmbuser> +1 12:44 -!- fraggle_ [n=fraggle at bea13-2-82-239-143-199.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:44 * jmbuser makes slowest response in Fedora meeting history 12:44 * quaid is still waiting for his last typing to appear on the screen 12:44 < quaid> oh, wait, it did 12:45 < quaid> ok, then ... 12:45 < couf> so shall we first get some basic "this is how you join Fedora"-instructions into the GIG, then spread the new mantra/offering to the world, and move on? 12:45 < quaid> couf: well, those are already there; GIG can have that, but should focus more on the SIGs/Subprojects 12:45 < quaid> oh 12:45 < quaid> you mean 12:45 < quaid> write that in first, stub out the pages, then announce, "come and fill and get some help with your contrib docs"? 12:46 * quaid sniffs a possible plan 12:46 < couf> yeah 12:46 < quaid> +1 12:46 < jmbuser> cool 12:47 < quaid> anyone feel they have the time to focus on the GIG to make that happen in a short timeframe? 12:47 < couf> I could have a stab at it 12:48 < quaid> coo' couf 12:48 < quaid> Action: couf stab at GIG basic intro/join Fedora 12:48 < couf> check 12:48 < quaid> Action: then we send out announcements about the change in Docs focus/role 12:48 < quaid> Action: meanwhile, feel free to blog about it at some point :) 12:49 * jmbuser needs to start blogging again 12:49 < quaid> word 12:49 -!- juank_prada [n=juanky at 200.114.38.35] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:49 < quaid> get addicted! 12:49 < quaid> ok, anything more on this topic? 12:49 * quaid adds some more actionnotes 12:49 < quaid> Action: election and governance to the list 12:50 < quaid> any other ones I missed? 12:50 < couf> not that I know off 12:50 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo chats -- All Other Bidness 12:51 < quaid> ten minutes to go and the flo' is open 12:51 < couf> time frame on cvs kill? 12:52 < quaid> hmm 12:53 < quaid> reality? F10 or later because of content actively in there, right? 12:53 < quaid> we are maintaining docs back to F8 12:53 < quaid> so we might need it opened until F9 EOLs 12:53 < quaid> that said! 12:53 < couf> ah right gpl and all that 12:54 < quaid> we can move on from here, migrate guides for new work in to fedorahosted.org 12:54 < quaid> couf: also, it works to build from there for those versions, why risk a move? it will be for maintainers only at that point anyway 12:54 < quaid> that's my off-the-cuff assessment 12:55 < couf> sure :) 12:55 < quaid> I'd say, any guides we want to publish for F9+ should get a stand alone fedorahosted.org project, SCM of choice, and rock on 12:56 < quaid> not sure if we have to update any part of bugzilla there or not 12:56 < couf> and toolchain needs to get in there too 12:57 -!- J5 [n=quintice at nat/redhat-us/x-f2a63c3e81ce4477] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:58 -!- sereinity [n=sereinit at mon69-3-82-235-39-70.fbx.proxad.net] has quit ["su -c'rm -rf /'"] 12:58 < couf> so I might try that after the GIG stuff 12:58 < quaid> aye, that's true 12:58 < couf> as part of my will to work on the toolchain 12:58 < quaid> ok, that's about it 12:58 < quaid> anything else for today? 12:59 < quaid> I'ma closin' 12:59 < couf> +1 12:59 < quaid> 30 12:59 < quaid> ~~ time warp ~~ 12:59 < quaid> 5 12:59 < quaid> 4 12:59 < quaid> 3 12:59 < quaid> 2 12:59 < quaid> 1 12:59 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri May 23 04:07:15 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Thu, 22 May 2008 21:07:15 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-05-21 Summary Message-ID: <1211515635.3443.45.camel@calliope.phig.org> Attendees: ----------- Paul W. Frields (stickster) Bart Couvreur (couf) Jared Smith (jsmith) Karsten Wade (quaid) John Babich (jmbuser) Summary: --------- * We're just not sure the current elections scheme is serving us well. Pushing discussion to the list for wider input. How much does governance matter to folks? ** In light of Docs role with contributors embedded in SIGs ** How subprojects govern themselves in the hands of subprojs? * Relnotes update for F9 ** POT/PO sent to L10n * First priority content work is supporting SIGs ** http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Tasks/SIGSupport ** Need to cross-link SIG work to section in the Get Involved Guide (GIG) * Populate GIG with pointers to the basic Join processes ** Focus on WHY and WHAT *** Discussed after meeting in #fedora-docs that we need to explain that a contributor has to bring something TO Fedora to get something FROM Fedora; by focusing on what one brings, it helps get the process started on the right path. ** couf to work on this content * Wiki migrating on 27 May, premigration on 23 May ** Spend some time looking at the as-migrated wiki between then, working on fixing stuff ** https://publictest1.fedoraproject.org/wiki/ * Clarify update to Docs focus ** Write in to wiki ** Update to list, announce-list ** Wait for new GIG pages? ** quaid to work on this -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From balajig81 at gmail.com Fri May 23 08:59:11 2008 From: balajig81 at gmail.com (G) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 14:29:11 +0530 Subject: [Ambassadors] Re: Only a DVD writer is required!!! Please help... In-Reply-To: <93655eb70805230151p11fa6ffdx6f5c2f065e66d06b@mail.gmail.com> References: <6dd1343e0805220217w32fc20ffm71c58efcb59981ac@mail.gmail.com> <6dd1343e0805222230o74244e98ke367104486bd6d21@mail.gmail.com> <93655eb70805230151p11fa6ffdx6f5c2f065e66d06b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6dd1343e0805230159g53438c63r748a06b1412907b9@mail.gmail.com> Hi Satish > u are right , we should have version numbers, ... .but one more thing is , i > guess many of those who would like to have the media wont be aware that such > a list exists , .... how can we make it more popular ? 1.The Lugs should/could have a webpage for CDs right? so we people have to make sure that the link which currently would point to their own people should point to the fedoraproject web page which would be of real help 2. People should first be aware that there exists a program called Free Media. I am very sure that Lot of People now a days know about Ubuntu's shipit so similarly this program should take flight. I guess the new wiki which is shaping up could give importance to this page by adding a link in the home page itself inside (Get-Fedora link) so that the Free media program gains even more momentum too. Cheers, Balaji On 5/23/08, Satish Eerpini wrote: > hi balaji , .. > u are right , we should have version numbers, ... .but one more thing is , i > guess many of those who would like to have the media wont be aware that such > a list exists , .... how can we make it more popular ? > > Thanks > -Satish > > > On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 11:00 AM, G wrote: > > Hi > > > > > > > Currently I am writing Fedora 9 dvds. > > > > Please update your name in the wiki with your email ID in the > > appropriate location that you represent if you have not done it as > > yet. > > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/FreeMedia/India/LocalContacts > > > > And What about the version numbers ? How would people come to know > > what we posses ?. I guess version numbers are most important here > > > > Cheers > > Balaji > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/23/08, Vignesh wrote: > > > Currently I am writing Fedora 9 dvds. > > > > > > Regards > > > Vignesh > > > > > > > > > On 5/22/08, G wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi > > > > > > > > I ve updated the wiki with my name in the list for chennai. I would > > > > also like to know how would the users get to know what versions of > > > > fedora do ambassadors have currently. This information would be really > > > > helpful . I am not able to find this information on that page so it > > > > would be really good if we could also update the version of the fedora > > > > Images that we have so that we could write it on to the DVD. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Balaji > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On 5/22/08, susmit shannigrahi wrote: > > > > > Hi all, > > > > > > > > > > * This is for increasing Fedora Media's availability in India. > > > > > > > > > > * Please note, you need not spend _any_ money. > > > > > > > > > > * If you have a DVD writer and can donate a few minutes from your > > > > > busy schedule, please list your name here.[1] > > > > > > > > > > * When users contact you, ask them to meet you with a blank CD/DVD > as > > > > > and when your time permits. > > > > > All you need is to burn the CD/DVD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Distribution/FreeMedia/India/LocalContacts > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > Regards, > > > > > Susmit. > > > > > > > > > > ============================================= > > > > > ssh > > > > > 0x86DD170A > > > > > > http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/SusmitShannigrahi > > > > > ============================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > > Fedora-marketing-list mailing list > > > > > Fedora-marketing-list at redhat.com > > > > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list > > > > Fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com > > > > > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list > > > Fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com > > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list > > Fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > > > > > -- > Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list > Fedora-ambassadors-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list > > From eric at christensenplace.us Fri May 23 13:50:57 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 09:50:57 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Elections and what that means Message-ID: <4836CBC1.10706@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I just looked at the Log [1] and Summary [2] for last Wednesday's FDSCo meeting. One of the things that was going to be taken to the list (the one you are reading now) is the current election scheme. Being relatively new to the Fedora Project, I'd like to hear from one of our fearless leaders what the elected positions are, what they do, and how our current election system is setup. Eric [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00089.html [2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00090.html -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg2y7UACgkQL5V8yddJCO26zwCaA301jSlNNEsVl2SFseD1VsTo OR0An0WDt7gps9yakI8LuGKUdo7y7771 =twK4 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 23 14:34:29 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 14:34:29 +0000 Subject: Governance Message-ID: <1211553269.23635.56.camel@victoria> re: This part of Wednesday's meeting: = = = = = * We're just not sure the current elections scheme is serving us well. Pushing discussion to the list for wider input. How much does governance matter to folks? ** In light of Docs role with contributors embedded in SIGs ** How subprojects govern themselves in the hands of subprojs? = = = = = http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects According to the current policy, to be a "project" (meaning an official subproject) there has to be some sort of governance in place, "possibly including an election or selection scheme." So we have some leeway to do what we think needs to be done to empower Docs to get things done. If elections are too often, too much, too early, or whatever the popular opinion may be, I think we just need to decide on what the new scheme will be. Would it make sense, rather than to have a sort of "global Docs committee" like FDSCo, instead just have people who agree to take up the banner for particular interest areas, and we could still meet regularly as we do now? Those assignments could be somewhat formal in nature, and noted on the wiki so community members know who's responsible for each area. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Fri May 23 14:46:22 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:46:22 -0400 Subject: Governance In-Reply-To: <1211553269.23635.56.camel@victoria> References: <1211553269.23635.56.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <4836D8BE.6040006@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul, What positions are needed? I could see a Chair and a Vice Chair (or whatever you wanted to call them) that would ultimately be in charge of the project. They could serve one year terms that could be staggered (one start in January and one start July). Their responsibilities would be to lead the meetings, approve draft documentation for release, and to kick butt as necessary. My opinion... Eric Paul W. Frields wrote: | re: This part of Wednesday's meeting: | = = = = = | * We're just not sure the current elections scheme is serving us well. | Pushing discussion to the list for wider input. How much does | governance matter to folks? | ** In light of Docs role with contributors embedded in SIGs | ** How subprojects govern themselves in the hands of subprojs? | = = = = = | | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects | | According to the current policy, to be a "project" (meaning an official | subproject) there has to be some sort of governance in place, "possibly | including an election or selection scheme." So we have some leeway to | do what we think needs to be done to empower Docs to get things done. | If elections are too often, too much, too early, or whatever the popular | opinion may be, I think we just need to decide on what the new scheme | will be. | | Would it make sense, rather than to have a sort of "global Docs | committee" like FDSCo, instead just have people who agree to take up the | banner for particular interest areas, and we could still meet regularly | as we do now? Those assignments could be somewhat formal in nature, and | noted on the wiki so community members know who's responsible for each | area. | | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg22LoACgkQL5V8yddJCO3NGQCfZZi1gH2xYfLw04JzMh08uvZd KSkAnjrIroI2e4GXYll42kgoulu0TmG8 =D6QP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mike at vegasitpros.com Fri May 23 18:05:42 2008 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 14:05:42 -0400 Subject: Governance Message-ID: <20080523180543.1808816ECE0@ws6-8.us4.outblaze.com> I agree! As a Project Manger by choice (not design) I have always tried to have a minimal quorum to make steering decisions on what requests should actually become projects. More ideas exist than resources, and not all ideas match the goals of the Docs Project. My minimal quorum consists of a Chair and Vice Chair with a sponsor (person making the request) and the project lead (Implementer). Chair and Vice Chair should lead the direction for all projects and sub project. Without clear direction, an over abundance of ideas could lead to a loss of direction or even fragmentation of the original scope the Docs Project was designed to serve. The Sponsor and Project Leads should report status, and poll for resources to complete the projects. These last two positions should not be voted on in my opinion, only the Chair and Vice Chair. A one year term that is staggered for election purposes would mean only 2 elections a year. A little more than 2 cents, but who?s counting Mike ?Ditt? Dittmeier ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Subject: Re: Governance Date: Fri, 23 May 2008 10:46:22 -0400 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Paul, What positions are needed? I could see a Chair and a Vice Chair (or whatever you wanted to call them) that would ultimately be in charge of the project. They could serve one year terms that could be staggered (one start in January and one start July). Their responsibilities would be to lead the meetings, approve draft documentation for release, and to kick butt as necessary. My opinion... Eric Paul W. Frields wrote: | re: This part of Wednesday's meeting: | = = = = = | * We're just not sure the current elections scheme is serving us well. | Pushing discussion to the list for wider input. How much does | governance matter to folks? | ** In light of Docs role with contributors embedded in SIGs | ** How subprojects govern themselves in the hands of subprojs? | = = = = = | | http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DefiningProjects | | According to the current policy, to be a "project" (meaning an official | subproject) there has to be some sort of governance in place, "possibly | including an election or selection scheme." So we have some leeway to | do what we think needs to be done to empower Docs to get things done. | If elections are too often, too much, too early, or whatever the popular | opinion may be, I think we just need to decide on what the new scheme | will be. | | Would it make sense, rather than to have a sort of "global Docs | committee" like FDSCo, instead just have people who agree to take up the | banner for particular interest areas, and we could still meet regularly | as we do now? Those assignments could be somewhat formal in nature, and | noted on the wiki so community members know who's responsible for each | area. | | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg22LoACgkQL5V8yddJCO3NGQCfZZi1gH2xYfLw04JzMh08uvZd KSkAnjrIroI2e4GXYll42kgoulu0TmG8 =D6QP -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list Mike Dittmeier mike at vegasitpros.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat May 24 19:12:29 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 12:12:29 -0700 Subject: wikiold frozen, work on wikinew begins, early-import happening right now Message-ID: <1211656349.3443.152.camel@calliope.phig.org> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki ==> /wikiold on 27 May == 'wikiold' == MoinMoin http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew ==> /wiki on 27 May == 'wikinew' == MediaWiki The content from MoinMoin (wikiold) is being early-imported to MediaWiki (wikinew). That is happening right now and should be ready in N hours. N == when it's ready. I'll send another announcement at that time. This content is going to be imported *again* on 27 May, to capture any changes made to wikiold. The details of that are being worked on, but the goal is to have content fidelity. Your help is needed in maintaining fidelity. Here is what you should do: 1. Don't edit either wiki until you hear the early-import is done 2. If your content can wait until 27 May (Tuesday) for the public to view it at fp.org/wiki, then do the work in wikinew and it goes live with the final-import on Tuesday. This is a chance to fix pages in wikinew that are not going to stay steady. ** DO NOT edit the page in both wikiold and wikinew. ** ** Pick one and stick with it through the migration. ** 3. If your content cannot wait until Tuesday and *must* be visible to the public at fp.org/wiki between now and Tuesday, do the work in wikiold. On Tuesday, it is final-imported into wikinew. You then want to check the content post-import as you would any other pages. Questions? #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net is where the Wiki Gardeners hang out. Time to start pruning and trimming and re-planting. - Karsten, Wiki Gardener -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From wahpay7 at hotmail.com Sun May 25 02:14:52 2008 From: wahpay7 at hotmail.com (Billy wahpay) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 02:14:52 +0000 Subject: wikiold frozen, work on wikinew begins, early-import happening right now In-Reply-To: <1211656349.3443.152.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1211656349.3443.152.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: please remove my email from the fedora email list thank you > From: kwade at redhat.com> To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com; fedora-devel-announce at redhat.com> Date: Sat, 24 May 2008 12:12:29 -0700> CC: > Subject: wikiold frozen, work on wikinew begins, early-import happening right now> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki ==> /wikiold on 27 May == 'wikiold' == MoinMoin> http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew ==> /wiki on 27 May == 'wikinew' == MediaWiki> > The content from MoinMoin (wikiold) is being early-imported to MediaWiki> (wikinew). That is happening right now and should be ready in N hours.> N == when it's ready. I'll send another announcement at that time.> > This content is going to be imported *again* on 27 May, to capture any> changes made to wikiold. The details of that are being worked on, but> the goal is to have content fidelity. Your help is needed in> maintaining fidelity.> > Here is what you should do:> > 1. Don't edit either wiki until you hear the early-import is done> > 2. If your content can wait until 27 May (Tuesday) for the public to> view it at fp.org/wiki, then do the work in wikinew and it goes live> with the final-import on Tuesday. This is a chance to fix pages in> wikinew that are not going to stay steady.> > ** DO NOT edit the page in both wikiold and wikinew. **> ** Pick one and stick with it through the migration. **> > 3. If your content cannot wait until Tuesday and *must* be visible to> the public at fp.org/wiki between now and Tuesday, do the work in> wikiold. On Tuesday, it is final-imported into wikinew. You then want> to check the content post-import as you would any other pages.> > Questions? #fedora-docs on irc.freenode.net is where the Wiki Gardeners> hang out. Time to start pruning and trimming and re-planting.> > - Karsten, Wiki Gardener> -- > Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr.> Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com> Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org> gpg key : AD0E0C41 _________________________________________________________________ Find hidden words, unscramble celebrity names, or try the ultimate crossword puzzle with Live Search Games. Play now! http://g.msn.ca/ca55/212 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Sun May 25 04:05:12 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 00:05:12 -0400 Subject: Security Guide Development Freeze Message-ID: <16208128.367721211688312282.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> I'm looking over what has been completed so far in the Security Guide. I'd like to go ahead and move development of this guide over to the new wiki at this time. I'd also like to move all the drafts over to the final side [1] from the draft side [2] before the wiki goes live on Tuesday. I'll be reviewing what is there now. Hopefully someone else can come behind me and look at what's been done before Tuesday. I'm looking to our fearless leaders to give me the go ahead to publish this on the final side on Monday or Tuesday. Eric [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9 [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide From eric at christensenplace.us Sun May 25 04:53:19 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 00:53:19 -0400 Subject: Wiki Pruning Message-ID: <16864886.368831211691199158.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Just some suggestions I'd like to point out for the gardeners of the new wiki... I found a couple of rouge pages that deal with security that I think we can parse the data and remove the pages from the wiki or just plain remove the page as the data is outdated and has been written elsewhere. The first one is the Cryptography page [1]. This page has a lot of good information contained within and could be broken up and incorporated into various chapters of the Security Guide [2] [3] and the page removed. The other page I found was linked from the Cryptography page and it dealt with LUKS. This page [4] is outdated (FC5) and doesn't contain any information that isn't already in the Security Guide [5]. Any thoughts? If this is good with the group, I can grab the information in the Cryptography page and place in the appropriate places and remove that and the old LUKS page. Eric [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Cryptography [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide [4] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Software/LUKS [5] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9/LUKSDiskEncryption From eric at christensenplace.us Sun May 25 05:24:03 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 01:24:03 -0400 Subject: Security Guide Development Freeze Message-ID: <25725265.369681211693043281.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> I just went through all of the draft Security Guide and cleaned up some of the information. I think chapters 1 through 5 are ready to be released (minus 4.5 and 4.6 which will follow soon) and moved over to the final side. If no one has any problems with that I can do so before Tuesday. Eric >I'm looking over what has been completed so far in the Security Guide. I'd >like to go ahead and move development of this guide over to the new wiki at >this time. I'd also like to move all the drafts over to the final side [1] >from the draft side [2] before the wiki goes live on Tuesday. > >I'll be reviewing what is there now. Hopefully someone else can come behind >me and look at what's been done before Tuesday. I'm looking to our fearless >leaders to give me the go ahead to publish this on the final side on Monday or >Tuesday. > >Eric > > >[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9 >[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide > >-- >fedora-docs-list mailing list >fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >To unsubscribe: >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From tony001983 at gmail.com Sun May 25 05:33:13 2008 From: tony001983 at gmail.com (Anthony Mogrovejo) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 00:33:13 -0500 Subject: Security Guide Development Freeze In-Reply-To: <25725265.369681211693043281.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> References: <25725265.369681211693043281.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Message-ID: <45eea4da0805242233j7df5f1cdu857589fd5af324be@mail.gmail.com> hi Eric, my name is Anthony, and wanted to keep abreast of the progress of the security, I am new to the list and want to see where I can help,my level of english is medium, but I want to help in what may.... bytes !! 2008/5/25 Eric H Christensen : > I just went through all of the draft Security Guide and cleaned up some of > the information. I think chapters 1 through 5 are ready to be released > (minus 4.5 and 4.6 which will follow soon) and moved over to the final side. > > If no one has any problems with that I can do so before Tuesday. > > Eric > > > > >I'm looking over what has been completed so far in the Security Guide. > I'd > >like to go ahead and move development of this guide over to the new wiki > at > >this time. I'd also like to move all the drafts over to the final side > [1] > >from the draft side [2] before the wiki goes live on Tuesday. > > > >I'll be reviewing what is there now. Hopefully someone else can come > behind > >me and look at what's been done before Tuesday. I'm looking to our > fearless > >leaders to give me the go ahead to publish this on the final side on > Monday or > >Tuesday. > > > >Eric > > > > > >[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9 > >[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide > > > >-- > >fedora-docs-list mailing list > >fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > >To unsubscribe: > >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Anthony Mogrovejo cel 9-91681657 Consultor Junior IT Aureal Systems Linux User # 433253 Ubuntu User # 9562 --------------------------------------------------------- "Quisiera cambiar al mundo pero no me dan los RPM..." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Sun May 25 06:08:51 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric H Christensen) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 02:08:51 -0400 Subject: Security Guide Development Freeze Message-ID: <22691791.370571211695731606.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Anthony, Thanks for the offer.? Right now we are in the process of finishing up quite a few entries and hope to have everything squared away for Tuesday and the new wiki. As soon as the transition is made, I'll be posting needed material requests to the list so keep an eye out. Thanks, Eric ? hi Eric, my name is Anthony, and wanted to keep abreast of the progress of the security, I am new to the list and want to see where I can help,my level of english is medium, but I want to help in what may.... bytes !! 2008/5/25 Eric H Christensen : I just went through all of the draft Security Guide and cleaned up some of the information. ?I think chapters 1 through 5 are ready to be released (minus 4.5 and 4.6 which will follow soon) and moved over to the final side. If no one has any problems with that I can do so before Tuesday. Eric >I'm looking over what has been completed so far in the Security Guide. ?I'd >like to go ahead and move development of this guide over to the new wiki at >this time. ?I'd also like to move all the drafts over to the final side [1] >from the draft side [2] before the wiki goes live on Tuesday. > >I'll be reviewing what is there now. ?Hopefully someone else can come behind >me and look at what's been done before Tuesday. ?I'm looking to our fearless >leaders to give me the go ahead to publish this on the final side on Monday or >Tuesday. > >Eric > > >[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9 >[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide > >-- >fedora-docs-list mailing list >fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >To unsubscribe: >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Anthony Mogrovejo cel 9-91681657 Consultor Junior IT Aureal Systems Linux User # 433253 Ubuntu User # 9562 --------------------------------------------------------- "Quisiera cambiar al mundo pero no me dan los RPM..." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From tony001983 at gmail.com Sun May 25 06:29:20 2008 From: tony001983 at gmail.com (Anthony Mogrovejo) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 01:29:20 -0500 Subject: Security Guide Development Freeze In-Reply-To: <22691791.370571211695731606.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> References: <22691791.370571211695731606.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Message-ID: <45eea4da0805242329p3eed5c4dpa85f1c9fccdeaf82@mail.gmail.com> Dont Worry. then keep abreast, to next... sds 2008/5/25 Eric H Christensen : > Anthony, > Thanks for the offer. Right now we are in the process of finishing up > quite a few entries and hope to have everything squared away for Tuesday and > the new wiki. > > As soon as the transition is made, I'll be posting needed material requests > to the list so keep an eye out. > > Thanks, > Eric > > > > > > > hi Eric, my name is Anthony, and wanted to keep abreast of the progress of > the security, I am new to the list and want to see where I can help,my > level of english is medium, but I want to help in what may.... > > bytes !! > > 2008/5/25 Eric H Christensen : > >> I just went through all of the draft Security Guide and cleaned up some of >> the information. I think chapters 1 through 5 are ready to be released >> (minus 4.5 and 4.6 which will follow soon) and moved over to the final side. >> >> If no one has any problems with that I can do so before Tuesday. >> >> Eric >> >> >> >> >I'm looking over what has been completed so far in the Security Guide. >> I'd >> >like to go ahead and move development of this guide over to the new wiki >> at >> >this time. I'd also like to move all the drafts over to the final side >> [1] >> >from the draft side [2] before the wiki goes live on Tuesday. >> > >> >I'll be reviewing what is there now. Hopefully someone else can come >> behind >> >me and look at what's been done before Tuesday. I'm looking to our >> fearless >> >leaders to give me the go ahead to publish this on the final side on >> Monday or >> >Tuesday. >> > >> >Eric >> > >> > >> >[1] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9 >> >[2] http://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide >> > >> >-- >> >fedora-docs-list mailing list >> >fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> >To unsubscribe: >> >https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > > > > -- > Anthony Mogrovejo > cel 9-91681657 > Consultor Junior IT > Aureal Systems > Linux User # 433253 > Ubuntu User # 9562 > --------------------------------------------------------- > "Quisiera cambiar al mundo pero no me dan los RPM..." > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Anthony Mogrovejo cel 9-91681657 Consultor Junior IT Aureal Systems Linux User # 433253 Ubuntu User # 9562 --------------------------------------------------------- "Quisiera cambiar al mundo pero no me dan los RPM..." -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 26 00:10:06 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sun, 25 May 2008 17:10:06 -0700 Subject: wikiold frozen, work on wikinew begins, early-import happening right now In-Reply-To: References: <1211656349.3443.152.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1211760606.3594.21.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 02:14 +0000, Billy wahpay wrote: > > > please remove my email from the fedora email list thank you > The footer of every message has this link you can use to unsubscribe yourself: > > ______________________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From balajig81 at gmail.com Mon May 26 06:39:17 2008 From: balajig81 at gmail.com (G) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:09:17 +0530 Subject: wikiold frozen, work on wikinew begins, early-import happening right now In-Reply-To: <1211760606.3594.21.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1211656349.3443.152.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1211760606.3594.21.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <6dd1343e0805252339q1a27423cwe3037ea99daa9f0c@mail.gmail.com> Hi Karsten I ve started to work on writing a small documentation on what bodhi is and a link to the bodhi repository. I have started off with that work and the reason is that i couldnt find this information in the old wiki. I am writing a small paragraph on it and since i ve been reading about this wiki migration i am doing it offline so what are your suggestions on this front. I would like to add that to the wiki and of course before adding it i would send it to review too so that if some more needs to be added it could be done. You want me to add it to the old wiki or the new one . We still have only one more day to go for the new wiki so i am kind of confused :D Cheers, Balaji On 5/26/08, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 02:14 +0000, Billy wahpay wrote: > > > > > > please remove my email from the fedora email list thank you > > > > > The footer of every message has this link you can use to unsubscribe > yourself: > > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > -- > Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. > Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com > Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org > gpg key : AD0E0C41 > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 26 09:50:17 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 02:50:17 -0700 Subject: wikiold frozen, work on wikinew begins, early-import happening right now In-Reply-To: <6dd1343e0805252339q1a27423cwe3037ea99daa9f0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <1211656349.3443.152.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1211760606.3594.21.camel@calliope.phig.org> <6dd1343e0805252339q1a27423cwe3037ea99daa9f0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1211795417.3594.57.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, 2008-05-26 at 12:09 +0530, "G" wrote: > Hi Karsten > > I ve started to work on writing a small documentation on what bodhi is > and a link to the bodhi repository. I have started off with that work > and the reason is that i couldnt find this information in the old > wiki. I am writing a small paragraph on it and since i ve been reading > about this wiki migration i am doing it offline so what are your > suggestions on this front. I would like to add that to the wiki and of > course before adding it i would send it to review too so that if some > more needs to be added it could be done. You want me to add it to the > old wiki or the new one . > > We still have only one more day to go for the new wiki so i am kind of > confused :D Continue to work offline and wait until the new wiki is fully available Sorry for the confusion, it's likely we'll be confused for another week still. ;-D - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From balajig81 at gmail.com Mon May 26 10:12:41 2008 From: balajig81 at gmail.com (G) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 15:42:41 +0530 Subject: wikiold frozen, work on wikinew begins, early-import happening right now In-Reply-To: <1211795417.3594.57.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1211656349.3443.152.camel@calliope.phig.org> <1211760606.3594.21.camel@calliope.phig.org> <6dd1343e0805252339q1a27423cwe3037ea99daa9f0c@mail.gmail.com> <1211795417.3594.57.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <6dd1343e0805260312j5f67aa86q3a898bbd2eedb51b@mail.gmail.com> > Continue to work offline and wait until the new wiki is fully available > > Sorry for the confusion, it's likely we'll be confused for another week > still. ;-D Yeah thanks for the info and will do that :) Cheers, Balaji On 5/26/08, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Mon, 2008-05-26 at 12:09 +0530, "G" wrote: > > Hi Karsten > > > > I ve started to work on writing a small documentation on what bodhi is > > and a link to the bodhi repository. I have started off with that work > > and the reason is that i couldnt find this information in the old > > wiki. I am writing a small paragraph on it and since i ve been reading > > about this wiki migration i am doing it offline so what are your > > suggestions on this front. I would like to add that to the wiki and of > > course before adding it i would send it to review too so that if some > > more needs to be added it could be done. You want me to add it to the > > old wiki or the new one . > > > > We still have only one more day to go for the new wiki so i am kind of > > confused :D > > > Continue to work offline and wait until the new wiki is fully available > > Sorry for the confusion, it's likely we'll be confused for another week > still. ;-D > > - Karsten > > -- > > Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. > Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com > Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org > gpg key : AD0E0C41 > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > From kwade at redhat.com Mon May 26 18:08:02 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:08:02 -0700 Subject: editing new wiki Message-ID: <1211825282.3594.67.camel@calliope.phig.org> I've begun editing DocsProject pages in the new wiki. Ian Weller has been working on the WikiEditing page (now Help:Editing) that is the canonical source for our markup choices. On this page, in this section ... https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/DocsProject/WikiGardening#Post-Migration_Gardening_Checklist_for_Individual_Gardeners ... I've begun compiling the various little things a wiki user wants to do. Feel free to add as you learn more. In today's Websites meeting, I've got a task of making a canonical page for users and teams to use when fixing their migrated pages. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dev at nigelj.com Wed May 28 10:23:04 2008 From: dev at nigelj.com (Nigel Jones) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 22:23:04 +1200 Subject: Outage Notification - 2008-05-28 10:00 UTC Message-ID: <483D3288.2040401@nigelj.com> We are currently experiencing an unplanned outage as of 2008-05-28 10:00 UTC Affected Services: CVS / Source Control Unaffected Services: Websites Buildsystem Database DNS Mail Torrent Reason for Outage: There appears to be a routing issue preventing outside hosts accessing the machine that runs the CVS system used by Fedora Developers and the Docs Team We are currently in the process of isolating the issue but an ETA is not available and apologise for any inconvenience. Contact Information: Please join #fedora-admin in irc.freenode.net or respond to this email to track the status of this outage. Regards, Nigel Jones From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 28 21:24:19 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:24:19 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting YYYY-MM-DD Summary Message-ID: <1212009859.3594.243.camel@calliope.phig.org> Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below Attendees: ----------- Summary: --------- * First item here * Second item here -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 28 21:29:47 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 14:29:47 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting YYYY-MM-DD Summary In-Reply-To: <1212009859.3594.243.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <1212009859.3594.243.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1212010187.3594.248.camel@calliope.phig.org> Please ignore, I had a double send keystroke by accident. On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 14:24 -0700, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > Remove this line, then fill in date above along with other details below > > Attendees: > ----------- > > > Summary: > --------- > > * First item here > > * Second item here > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Thu May 29 05:24:42 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Thu, 29 May 2008 15:24:42 +1000 Subject: Fedora 9: documentation for NetworkManager Message-ID: <95f1114b0805282224y463a3905j2a0cd2d149b4b49d@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I was looking at , and wondered about the last point in . Is there any documentation for this? I certainly have no idea what has changed, and wouldn't know where to look :( If someone wants content added to Fedora documentation, what is the process? I checked in Bugzilla, but could not find any components suitable for this. Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri May 30 08:36:57 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:36:57 +0200 Subject: ati or nvidia cards in documentation Message-ID: <64b14b300805300136u7de9234dq10a177beabbee19b@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I looked through Fedora 9 release notes and there is no mention of ATI or Nvidia cards and their proprietary drivers. Because lots of people have these cards and know that in order to get compositing working on their desktop that they need proprietary drivers. I'm fortunate to be using intel video chips in all of my laptops but others aren't so lucky or knowable. I don't see it in release notes but I hear from other users that these proprietary drivers don't work with latest X.org server. Is that information not relevant enough for release notes? Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri May 30 08:53:38 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:23:38 +0530 Subject: ati or nvidia cards in documentation In-Reply-To: <64b14b300805300136u7de9234dq10a177beabbee19b@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300805300136u7de9234dq10a177beabbee19b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <483FC092.4010309@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: > Hi, > I looked through Fedora 9 release notes and there is no mention of ATI > or Nvidia cards and their proprietary drivers. Because lots of people > have these cards and know that in order to get compositing working on > their desktop that they need proprietary drivers. I'm fortunate to be > using intel video chips in all of my laptops but others aren't so > lucky or knowable. I don't see it in release notes but I hear from > other users that these proprietary drivers don't work with latest > X.org server. Is that information not relevant enough for release > notes? We don't usually document proprietary software. Also refer https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_drivers Rahul From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri May 30 08:59:14 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 10:59:14 +0200 Subject: ati or nvidia cards in documentation In-Reply-To: <483FC092.4010309@fedoraproject.org> References: <64b14b300805300136u7de9234dq10a177beabbee19b@mail.gmail.com> <483FC092.4010309@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <64b14b300805300159y6f3552f7p20ede937ca01fff1@mail.gmail.com> > We don't usually document proprietary software. Also refer > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_drivers > > Rahul I'm aware of Fedora Project and proprietary software but I'm just trying to say that we need to at least say that somewhere and although common bugs page is really nice I would expect it also in release notes. The link is really helpful - thank you Rahul. Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri May 30 09:29:25 2008 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:59:25 +0530 Subject: ati or nvidia cards in documentation In-Reply-To: <64b14b300805300159y6f3552f7p20ede937ca01fff1@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300805300136u7de9234dq10a177beabbee19b@mail.gmail.com> <483FC092.4010309@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300805300159y6f3552f7p20ede937ca01fff1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <483FC8F5.407@fedoraproject.org> Valent Turkovic wrote: >> We don't usually document proprietary software. Also refer >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_drivers >> >> Rahul > > I'm aware of Fedora Project and proprietary software but I'm just > trying to say that we need to at least say that somewhere and although > common bugs page is really nice I would expect it also in release > notes. The link is really helpful - thank you Rahul. The common bugs link is already referred to from the release notes very prominently. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 30 14:31:54 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 16:31:54 +0200 Subject: Fedora 9: documentation for NetworkManager In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0805282224y463a3905j2a0cd2d149b4b49d@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0805282224y463a3905j2a0cd2d149b4b49d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1212157914.10488.127.camel@victoria> On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 15:24 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > I was looking at , > and wondered about the last point in > . > > Is there any documentation for this? I certainly have no idea what has > changed, and wouldn't know where to look :( > > If someone wants content added to Fedora documentation, what is the > process? I checked in Bugzilla, but could not find any components > suitable for this. I think it's roughly: 1. Create account in Fedora: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts 2. Edit wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ Not meant to be flip or sarcastic. :-) In all seriousness, any documentation we create like this seems like it will probably be on the wiki in the future, so anyone can simply write it. It would be great if that content was provided as part of a larger guide, but at a worst case, the content can be searched on the wiki and reused later in such a work. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 30 14:33:13 2008 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 16:33:13 +0200 Subject: Wiki Pruning In-Reply-To: <16864886.368831211691199158.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> References: <16864886.368831211691199158.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> Message-ID: <1212157993.10488.129.camel@victoria> On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 00:53 -0400, Eric H Christensen wrote: > Just some suggestions I'd like to point out for the gardeners of the new wiki... > > I found a couple of rouge pages that deal with security that I think we can parse the data and remove the pages from the wiki or just plain remove the page as the data is outdated and has been written elsewhere. > > The first one is the Cryptography page [1]. This page has a lot of good information contained within and could be broken up and incorporated into various chapters of the Security Guide [2] [3] and the page removed. The other page I found was linked from the Cryptography page and it dealt with LUKS. This page [4] is outdated (FC5) and doesn't contain any information that isn't already in the Security Guide [5]. > > Any thoughts? If this is good with the group, I can grab the information in the Cryptography page and place in the appropriate places and remove that and the old LUKS page. > > Eric > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Cryptography > [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide > [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide > [4] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Software/LUKS > [5] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9/LUKSDiskEncryption IMHO, it's a wiki and you're fully empowered to do this. Revision control means the content's not lost if someone strenuously objects! :-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From wahpay7 at hotmail.com Fri May 30 14:48:54 2008 From: wahpay7 at hotmail.com (Billy wahpay) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 14:48:54 +0000 Subject: Wiki Pruning In-Reply-To: <1212157993.10488.129.camel@victoria> References: <16864886.368831211691199158.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> <1212157993.10488.129.camel@victoria> Message-ID: hi paul can you please remove my email from the fedora email list thanks > From: stickster at gmail.com> To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com> Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 16:33:13 +0200> Subject: Re: Wiki Pruning> > On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 00:53 -0400, Eric H Christensen wrote:> > Just some suggestions I'd like to point out for the gardeners of the new wiki...> > > > I found a couple of rouge pages that deal with security that I think we can parse the data and remove the pages from the wiki or just plain remove the page as the data is outdated and has been written elsewhere.> > > > The first one is the Cryptography page [1]. This page has a lot of good information contained within and could be broken up and incorporated into various chapters of the Security Guide [2] [3] and the page removed. The other page I found was linked from the Cryptography page and it dealt with LUKS. This page [4] is outdated (FC5) and doesn't contain any information that isn't already in the Security Guide [5].> > > > Any thoughts? If this is good with the group, I can grab the information in the Cryptography page and place in the appropriate places and remove that and the old LUKS page.> > > > Eric> > > > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Cryptography> > [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide> > [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide> > [4] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Software/LUKS> > [5] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9/LUKSDiskEncryption> > IMHO, it's a wiki and you're fully empowered to do this. Revision> control means the content's not lost if someone strenuously objects! :-)> > -- > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/> gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717> http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/> irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug _________________________________________________________________ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Fri May 30 15:37:23 2008 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 11:37:23 -0400 Subject: Wiki Pruning In-Reply-To: References: <16864886.368831211691199158.JavaMail.servlet@perfora> <1212157993.10488.129.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <48401F33.9060609@christensenplace.us> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 At the bottom of every email message that comes from the listserv: - -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list Billy wahpay wrote: | | hi paul can you please remove my email from the fedora email list thanks | | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | > From: stickster at gmail.com | > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com | > Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 16:33:13 +0200 | > Subject: Re: Wiki Pruning | > | > On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 00:53 -0400, Eric H Christensen wrote: | > > Just some suggestions I'd like to point out for the gardeners of | the new wiki... | > > | > > I found a couple of rouge pages that deal with security that I | think we can parse the data and remove the pages from the wiki or just | plain remove the page as the data is outdated and has been written | elsewhere. | > > | > > The first one is the Cryptography page [1]. This page has a lot of | good information contained within and could be broken up and | incorporated into various chapters of the Security Guide [2] [3] and the | page removed. The other page I found was linked from the Cryptography | page and it dealt with LUKS. This page [4] is outdated (FC5) and doesn't | contain any information that isn't already in the Security Guide [5]. | > > | > > Any thoughts? If this is good with the group, I can grab the | information in the Cryptography page and place in the appropriate places | and remove that and the old LUKS page. | > > | > > Eric | > > | > > | > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Cryptography | > > [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide | > > [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Docs/Drafts/CryptoGuide | > > [4] https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Software/LUKS | > > [5] | https://fedoraproject.org/wikinew/Security_Guide/9/LUKSDiskEncryption | > | > IMHO, it's a wiki and you're fully empowered to do this. Revision | > control means the content's not lost if someone strenuously objects! :-) | > | > -- | > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ | > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 | > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ | > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug | | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkhAHy4ACgkQL5V8yddJCO1jywCggVL9bCotWJO7820B2zBE4MZc FigAn1keLKpInS36xFAMNy2UGkl0w/jL =Tixk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sat May 31 01:03:31 2008 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 11:03:31 +1000 Subject: Fedora 9: documentation for NetworkManager In-Reply-To: <1212157914.10488.127.camel@victoria> References: <95f1114b0805282224y463a3905j2a0cd2d149b4b49d@mail.gmail.com> <1212157914.10488.127.camel@victoria> Message-ID: <95f1114b0805301803k58d0326ar99cfd6405c20b508@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 12:31 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, 2008-05-29 at 15:24 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: >> I was looking at , >> and wondered about the last point in >> . >> >> Is there any documentation for this? I certainly have no idea what has >> changed, and wouldn't know where to look :( >> >> If someone wants content added to Fedora documentation, what is the >> process? I checked in Bugzilla, but could not find any components >> suitable for this. > > I think it's roughly: > > 1. Create account in Fedora: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts > 2. Edit wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ > > Not meant to be flip or sarcastic. :-) In all seriousness, any > documentation we create like this seems like it will probably be on the > wiki in the future, so anyone can simply write it. It would be great if > that content was provided as part of a larger guide, but at a worst > case, the content can be searched on the wiki and reused later in such a > work. What happens if someone wants to use Fedora, but they don't know how to do task [x], so they want task [x] documented. Is the docs project responsible for this, or should the person learn how to do this themselves? If I ever figure out what they want from BZ #435599, I'll try to figure out how it works on Fedora...although it's always a pain trying to rewrite because of the "Copyright (c) 2008 Red Hat, Inc. All rights reserved." ;) It would be good if this could be done for the Deployment Guide, and then copied straight onto the Fedora wiki... Cheers, Murray. --------------------------------------------------------------------- pub 1024D/81B3FDEB 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] Key fingerprint = 4ED9 9907 5BF0 4132 2B46 20D1 C0C6 362D 81B3 FDEB Murray McAllister (Fedora Docs Project / mdious) sub 2048g/B04CFA0C 2007-09-19 [expires: 2008-09-18] From kwade at redhat.com Sat May 31 03:43:34 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 20:43:34 -0700 Subject: ati or nvidia cards in documentation In-Reply-To: <64b14b300805300159y6f3552f7p20ede937ca01fff1@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300805300136u7de9234dq10a177beabbee19b@mail.gmail.com> <483FC092.4010309@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300805300159y6f3552f7p20ede937ca01fff1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1212205414.17426.17.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 10:59 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > We don't usually document proprietary software. Also refer > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_drivers > > > > Rahul > > I'm aware of Fedora Project and proprietary software This is a requirement that we haven't documented well. Maybe big, flashing letters on DocsProject? "We do not document how to install or use proprietary, closed source software." ... nicer way ... "If it is not in Fedora, we won't document it." It's hard enough documenting the world of software that is in Fedora. :) - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat May 31 03:59:56 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 20:59:56 -0700 Subject: ati or nvidia cards in documentation In-Reply-To: <64b14b300805300159y6f3552f7p20ede937ca01fff1@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300805300136u7de9234dq10a177beabbee19b@mail.gmail.com> <483FC092.4010309@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300805300159y6f3552f7p20ede937ca01fff1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1212206396.17426.32.camel@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 10:59 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > We don't usually document proprietary software. Also refer > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_drivers > > > > Rahul > > I'm aware of Fedora Project and proprietary software but I'm just > trying to say that we need to at least say that somewhere and although > common bugs page is really nice I would expect it also in release > notes. I just sent a flippant reply to this, but it is worth taking a moment to respond with more detail. There are *many* good reasons not to document the use of closed source software. Perhaps it is worth writing this up into a short essay on a wiki page so we can refer to it always. At the same time, it can be very painful to not be able to help someone with their problem, especially when "all you have to do is ..." It is very human to want to take away their hurt. In Fedora, we know that if we try to take away short term hurt, we have to be careful that we are not perpetuating the long term hurt. Is this something that is unclear to other people? The reasons why we only document software that is provided in Fedora? Earlier today I removed instructions that Valent put on the ForbiddenItems page. The instructions pointed to a bug in Firefox that prevented Firefox's plugin finder from working with installing Adobe's Flash player. In addition, a link was included to a page describing how to install Adobe's Flash player. This was all in replacement of a previous statement that one could use Firefox to install the Flash plugin. Valent was correcting that original "how-to install" statement with the bug report et al. In consideration, I think the original statement was incorrect being there. I'm calling this out because this content is a blatant violation of the very reason that page exists. Just as it is blatantly obvious to me why we do not document software Fedora does not and/or cannot ship. I'm going to answer my own question and say, yes, it is unclear for people, dangerously so. As we invite more end-user helpers to use the fedoraproject.org/wiki, it needs to be crystal clear to them what is and is not permitted for content. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat May 31 15:19:55 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 08:19:55 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-05-28 IRC log Message-ID: <1212247195.17426.33.camel@calliope.phig.org> In wiki format: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes/IRCLog20080528 12:07 < quaid> 12:07 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg -- welcomes 12:07 < quaid> ... and welcome 12:08 -!- jmtaylor [n=jason at fedora/jmtaylor] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:08 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.25.134] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:09 < quaid> roll call for easy record keeping, if you are here ... 12:09 < quaid> <- Karsten is here 12:09 < jmbuser> JohnBabich 12:09 < Sparks> Eric Christensen 12:09 -!- Ludvick [n=ludvick_ at adsl-065-012-235-102.sip.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:10 * quaid is getting agenda up on his screen 12:10 -!- mcepl [n=matej at adsl3050.in.ipex.cz] has left #fedora-meeting ["Bye bye!"] 12:10 < jmbuser> JohnBabich the psychic 12:10 < quaid> heh 12:10 * ianweller lurks 12:10 < quaid> ok, I saw couf join 12:10 < quaid> and jsmith is half-here 12:10 < quaid> stickster_afk is at a booth or dinner or something 12:11 * jsmith wishes he were eating dinner 12:11 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo rollin' in the hood -- Elections! 12:11 < quaid> cool, we have everyone here to discuss elections, governance, and the like 12:11 < quaid> paul posted a bit on list 12:11 < quaid> http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00093.html 12:12 * quaid waits a moment for others to read the thread 12:13 < quaid> ok 12:13 < Sparks> There was also some additional conversation that was had but it didn't go much further 12:13 < quaid> some differeint ideas there, ditt and sparks 12:14 < quaid> what I propose is this: 12:14 < quaid> i. we discuss until :35 at the latest 12:14 < quaid> ii. see if we have a consensus 12:14 < quaid> iii. if not, push the discussion contents back to the list and continue 12:15 < Sparks> +1 12:15 < quaid> I started the whole thing off because we are looking at how we govern in Fedora, and I think it makes sense to review on a subproj basis if we are following a formula that works for us or not 12:15 < jmbuser> +1 12:16 < jmbuser> continue 12:17 * quaid could talk for 20 minutes if he isn't careful :) 12:17 < quaid> simple idea: 12:17 < quaid> how do we turn from "the leader" into "a leader" and "A group of leaders"? 12:17 < quaid> eol 12:18 < jmbuser> We already seem to have a pretty motivated group of people 12:18 < jsmith> quaid: People don't learn to lead by watching a leader. They learn to lead by having adversity thrown at them 12:19 -!- fab [n=bellet at bellet.info] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)] 12:19 < jsmith> The person you call "the leader" is simply the one that's experienced the most adversity, and done the best at getting through it 12:19 -!- spoleeba [n=one at fedora/Jef] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:19 < quaid> what is interesting to me is this ... we have a process we've defined, and we have a way we've grown organically ... and they don't necessarily match 12:19 < jmbuser> This is not that unusual 12:20 < quaid> do we fix the process then? dissolve it? 12:20 -!- wolfy [n=lonewolf at fedora/wolfy] has left #fedora-meeting ["The chief excitement in a woman's life is spotting women who are fatter than she is."] 12:20 < Sparks> In my opinion, I think the Steering Committee is too bulky for where I see the DocsProject is currently at 12:21 < jmbuser> Planned processes and the way things actually work out are usually two different things 12:21 < quaid> spoleeba: you might want to throw in here -- discussing governance of Docs, how to work with SIGs, etc. 12:21 < jmbuser> The solution is to have the process reflect reality 12:21 < quaid> spoleeba: or you might rightly say, "not my place, proceed" :) 12:21 < Sparks> If we defined a chair and a vice-chair I think they could "steer" the process 12:21 < quaid> reality is -- interestd people show up at a meeting time, on list, etc. 12:22 < quaid> Sparks: I see that, as a group, Fedora appreciates where there is a named leader or two or three so people know who to "go to" 12:22 < Sparks> Exactly 12:22 < Sparks> But I don't think we have the following necessary for a committee to lead the project 12:23 * jsmith agrees 12:23 < quaid> oh good 12:23 < quaid> that's how I've been feeling :) 12:23 < jsmith> In fact, I'd gladly give up my seat on the said commitee 12:23 < quaid> the committee weight is a bit heavy to maneuver with 12:23 < jsmith> (as I've been practically worthless lately) 12:23 < quaid> or 12:24 < quaid> make it "opt in" 12:24 < quaid> you want in, you are in 12:24 < quaid> you want out, just say you are disappearing for a while 12:24 < quaid> and let people "breathe" that way as per their life 12:24 < Sparks> That works 12:24 < quaid> I've been fortunate to have more Fedora time now, but I've always had weeks or months where I disappear into RHT work 12:25 < Sparks> We, as a project, should be able to say "we want this"... and we already do, really 12:25 < quaid> yep 12:25 < quaid> as for picking chair/v-chair stuff ... ideas that occur to me are: 12:25 < quaid> * have that as a general subproj election 12:25 < quaid> * have the opt-in FDSCo do it for everyone else 12:25 < quaid> sorry, that was 1 and 2 12:26 < jmbuser> "Is Fedora Docs going to remain a project or become a SIG?" is the question to ask, in my opinion 12:26 < quaid> 3. don't elect, just make sure things move around often enough 12:26 < quaid> 4. don't elect but have a clear process to kick out people who become tyrants 12:26 * jmbuser is always out of phase lately - sorry 12:26 < quaid> jmbuser: now, there is a way to ask that question, but I think it is already answered 12:27 < jsmith> Let me throw out one other question... is this a case of "much ado about nothing"? 12:27 < quaid> I support the general scheme that spoleeba (Jef) has proposed. 12:27 < quaid> in that one, Docs is clearly a subproject 12:27 -!- mccann [n=jmccann at nat/redhat-us/x-4789468b54e83c36] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 12:27 < quaid> and each SIG has a docs role to fill, with that person connecting back up to Docs the subproj 12:27 < jsmith> I mean, has the FDSCo really been that bad? 12:27 < quaid> jsmith: not bad, just ... 12:28 < quaid> jsmith: we said we'd have elections and stuff 12:28 < jsmith> quaid: And we have... at least I think I got elected somehow 12:28 < quaid> jsmith: so we need to be clear what we are doing, for those in the proj but not involved in leading, etc. 12:28 -!- mccann [n=jmccann at nat/redhat-us/x-fdef7a5fbd075095] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:28 < quaid> jsmith: I mean, it's time again for elections :) 12:28 < Sparks> +1 to quaid's list... 12:28 < quaid> turnout has been not very big nor grown across elections; in fact, I think it might have declined 12:28 < Sparks> I think we should "elect" or "appoint" a leader of some sort 12:29 < quaid> how about this as a scheme: 12:29 < jsmith> FSSCo senate? 12:29 < quaid> * FDSCo is opt-in, consisting of all who want to be involved in steering 12:29 < quaid> * FDSCo has the charge to make sure leadership remains relevant 12:29 < quaid> * FDSCo decides to elect or appoint 12:30 < quaid> * If project members have problems with any of that, the answer is obviously to opt-in to the process and help from within the steering 12:30 < jsmith> +1 12:30 < jsmith> WORKSFORME 12:30 < Sparks> +1 12:30 * quaid is thinking it looks OK and quite a bit like what we do already :) 12:31 < Sparks> It is... only less strict... more flexible 12:31 < jsmith> quaid: And yes, if you become an evil tyrant we'll kick you out ;-) 12:31 < jmbuser> In that anyone who wants to be on the steering committee generally gets elected, it doesn't seem to be much different 12:31 * quaid is happy we found a way to make Sparks' vote official, too :) 12:31 < jsmith> be right back 12:32 < jmbuser> than what you propose 12:32 < quaid> jmbuser: right, except we artificially constrained the SCo before, so people who cannot be active are "taking slots" from people who can be active right now; so yeah, better 12:32 -!- RodrigoPadula [i=c8c6c292 at gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-15a8c9d839c8dfb7] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:33 < RodrigoPadula> hello guys! 12:33 < jmbuser> In other words, people get elected, then their life situation changes, then someone else becomes active between elections? 12:33 < spoleeba> let me ask this.. do you have a handle on the number of active people are in the fas groups you think should have a say in the direction of docs? 12:33 < quaid> I don't think so 12:33 < quaid> that said, 12:33 < quaid> most such people tend to come in there anyway in some fashion 12:34 < quaid> but we are not well represented from certain groups 12:34 < spoleeba> is that number big enough to support an election? elections on make sense if you need representative governance..versus referendum 12:35 < spoleeba> if sigs grow doc roles...then maybe you'll need elections of some sort 12:37 < quaid> +1 12:37 -!- J5_ [n=quintice at 66.187.234.199] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:37 < quaid> when it gets to where we have some actual contention to elect against :) 12:38 < quaid> right now it's like a girls club electing "officers" 12:38 < quaid> which was important 12:38 < quaid> back when we needed to make it clear RHT wasn't puppetizing things 12:38 < jmbuser> What about high-level decisions like not documenting closed-binary workarounds? 12:38 < quaid> now that we all know that RHT barely notices Docs (j/k ... 12:39 < quaid> jmbuser: where it's not clear from the overall project, SCo should be able to handle that 12:39 < jmbuser> Encouraging FOSS solutions instead? 12:39 < quaid> well, if in the future that becomes OK to do in Fedora, we'll follow suit. 12:40 < quaid> I mean, Fedora doesn't support closed binary workaround, so we don't have to, and really shouldn't 12:40 < quaid> if we do our job right and are visible enough, the rest of Fedora will make sure we don't drift, too :) 12:41 < quaid> ok, we went over the mark 12:41 < quaid> but I think we got some consensus, yes? 12:41 < jmbuser> please sum up 12:42 < quaid> ok, let's see ... 12:42 * jsmith stumbles back 12:42 < Sparks> +1 12:42 < quaid> 12:29 < quaid> * FDSCo is opt-in, consisting of all who want to be involved in steering 12:42 < quaid> 12:29 < quaid> * FDSCo has the charge to make sure leadership remains relevant 12:42 < quaid> 12:29 < quaid> * FDSCo decides to elect or appoint 12:42 < quaid> 12:30 < quaid> * If project members have problems with any of that, the answer is obviously to opt-in to the process and help from within the steering 12:42 < quaid> add to that: 12:42 < quaid> FDSCo elects or appoints leadership as they see fit. 12:42 < quaid> and what I propose: 12:43 < quaid> all FDSCo members say "I am a Fedora Docs Leader" 12:43 < quaid> and we emphasize points of contact that are subject matter focused rather than one big daddy 12:43 < quaid> (that is a grow-to strategy that includes better DocsProject pages to help others find their SME) 12:44 < quaid> eosummary 12:44 < quaid> SME == subject matter expert 12:44 < quaid> did I miss anything? 12:44 -!- kms [n=kms at mailgate.passback.co.uk] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:44 * jmbuser is starting to "get it" 12:45 < jsmith> quaid: You forget that we're going to elect you puppet dictator for life 12:45 < jmbuser> All hail, quaid! 12:45 < jsmith> quaid: But other than that minor issue, you've hit the issue squarely on the head 12:45 < quaid> hey, I have an ego, too 12:45 < Sparks> quaid quaid quaid quaid 12:45 < jsmith> quaid++ 12:45 < jmbuser> MIB II reference :-) 12:45 < quaid> anyone who says they aren't proud of their roles in Fedora is probably lying :) 12:45 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr at p4FDD1A55.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:46 < jsmith> quaid: I'm not proud of my role on FDSCo... does that count? 12:47 < Sparks> So that went twice as long as was "allowed"... :) 12:48 < quaid> word 12:48 < quaid> anything more? 12:48 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo mtg rolls onward -- release notes 9.0.2-1 12:48 < quaid> anyone here know anything? 12:49 * jsmith doesn't know *anything* 12:49 < quaid> mdious isn't here, it's middle of night in .au 12:49 < quaid> stickster_afk is dining still 12:49 * quaid is joking, he doesn't know 12:49 < quaid> ok, moving on 12:49 < jsmith> ~hail gluttony! 12:49 -!- tiagoaoa [i=c8c6c292 at gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-d005906909200f78] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:49 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo is as FDSCo does -- Wiki gardening ... 12:49 < quaid> let's make this the final topic for now 12:49 < quaid> oh, sorry 12:49 < quaid> Sparks had some stuff too 12:50 < Sparks> Not really... It can wait. 12:50 < quaid> Sparks: are those sub topics to wiki gardening? 12:50 < Sparks> Yes 12:50 < couf> pong, sorry 12:50 < quaid> if you say yes, then go ahead, that's as good a place to start as any 12:50 < Sparks> Okay... So wiki gardening... 12:50 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: FDSCo is as FDSCo does -- Wiki gardening ... UG, SecG, Other, cleaning up projects list ... 12:50 < Sparks> I've been making a run through the DocsProject and Documentation pages... 12:51 < quaid> (it's been going pretty well, IMO, thanks to all who have been helping) 12:51 -!- jmbuser [n=jmbuser at 195.229.25.134] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 12:51 < Sparks> and I think I've hit most of the 'big' pages... 12:51 < quaid> +1 sweet 12:51 < Sparks> but if you want to see how many pages are actually attributed to the DocsProject... 12:51 < Sparks> just go to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:DocsProject. 12:52 < Sparks> This brings up my first request... 12:52 < tiagoaoa> let me see if I can talk here 12:52 < Sparks> categories. 12:52 < tiagoaoa> yep.. not moderated, see? 12:52 < Sparks> tiagoaoa Go ahead 12:52 < tiagoaoa> nevermind 12:52 < quaid> Sparks: we can have categories in cats, right? 12:53 < Sparks> quaid: We can have anything we want. 12:53 < Sparks> Looks like Drkludge wrote something for our category... 12:53 < quaid> tiagoaoa: if you are having trouble talking in a #fedora-* channel, the channel topic there should point you at directions for registering your nick. 12:53 < quaid> Sparks: what are you thinking about for cats? 12:54 < Sparks> so that if anyone clicks on the category it will give them some information on what it is. 12:54 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at 66.187.234.199] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:54 < Sparks> There seems to be two... DocsProject and Documentation 12:54 < quaid> they are different 12:54 < quaid> one is content useful for people, the other is the project that maintains that content 12:54 < Sparks> If we can flag all the Documentation as such then it would make it easier to maintain and have people find it 12:54 < quaid> true that 12:54 < Sparks> quaid: exactly 12:55 < quaid> do we want to move the actual docs out from the DocsProject cat? 12:55 < Sparks> I'd like to propose we also do one for the drafts. 12:55 < quaid> what about a namespace? 12:55 < Sparks> quaid: I don't know. That was one of my questions 12:55 < quaid> Docs: or something 12:55 < quaid> ianweller: can we have a page in multiple, non-nested categories? 12:55 -!- Ludvick [n=ludvick_ at adsl-065-012-235-102.sip.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 12:56 < quaid> ianweller: or should we have a Documentation cat, and a DocumetationDraft sub-cat? 12:56 < Sparks> quaid: yes... Check the security guide. 12:56 < ianweller> it depends on how you want to do it. do you want your drafts in [[Category:Documentation]]? 12:56 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation 12:56 < quaid> ok, I see 12:56 < jsmith> Gotta run again... 12:56 -!- jsmith is now known as jsmith-away 12:56 < ianweller> if not, make them separate; if so, add [[Category:Documentation]] to the page for Category:DocumentationDraft 12:56 < quaid> ianweller: yes 12:57 < Sparks> ianweller: cool... hadn't thought of that. 12:57 < quaid> that seems clear enough 12:57 < quaid> Sparks: +1 to the general idea, fwiw 12:57 -!- J5 [n=quintice at nat/redhat-us/x-0f613b84aea53d37] has quit [Connection timed out] 12:57 < Sparks> Yeah, just trying to get a standard out there 12:57 < quaid> I want to see us leading others in how to use MediaWiki to our advantage 12:57 < Sparks> the cats make it VERY easy to maintain things 12:57 < quaid> ianweller: what is the advantage of a Namespace: over or alongside a Category: ? 12:58 < quaid> Sparks: can you write up a policy? DocsProject/Categories or something 12:58 < Sparks> Sure 12:58 < quaid> policy/procedure/guideline whatever 12:58 < Sparks> guide 12:58 < Sparks> that's not a problem 12:58 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr at fedora/JSchmitt] has quit ["Konversation terminated!"] 12:58 < Sparks> Anyone have anything else? If not I'll go on to the orphan pages and that will be it for me 12:59 < quaid> I want to talk about namespaces but need to grok it better 12:59 < quaid> so we can move on to orphaned, sure 12:59 < Sparks> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Lonelypages 12:59 * quaid reading http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Namespace 12:59 -!- rdieter_away is now known as rdieter 12:59 < Sparks> So this page shows all the pages in the wiki that aren't linked to any other page in the wiki 12:59 < quaid> oooooh, nice Special: page 12:59 < ianweller> quaid: i'm trying to search for what would be a good reason to completely switch over to namespaces 12:59 < Sparks> Lots of fun stuff in here. 13:00 < quaid> wow, there are tons there 13:00 < quaid> for the MoinEditorBackup, ianweller or someone was looking at a way to mass delete them 13:00 < Sparks> Yeah, and if they aren't linked some how then they are only going to be found by a search which to me is inefficient 13:01 < quaid> that one is on the Migration Masters to-do list 13:01 < Sparks> yeah 13:01 < quaid> Sparks: well ... 13:01 < quaid> Sparks: one thing about MW is search is useful 13:01 < quaid> Sparks: also, they might be linked from the outside, which is legit 13:01 < quaid> I'd want to see a cross between this list and a Google frequency of some kind 13:01 < Sparks> I'm not saying we should go in and try to shoehorn all these pages in, but there are a lot of DocsProject files out there that need some love 13:01 < quaid> to use it as a basis for declaring orphans 13:01 < quaid> that is true 13:01 < Sparks> I agree 13:01 < quaid> ok, we are out of time 13:02 < Sparks> Yep, the orphan thing was just food for thought. 13:02 < Sparks> eof 13:02 < quaid> let's move this over to #fedora-docs to continue, a policy will take more discussion. 13:02 < quaid> ok, then, cool 13:02 < quaid> thanks everyone 13:02 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat May 31 15:49:32 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 08:49:32 -0700 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2008-05-28 Summary Message-ID: <1212248972.17426.56.camel@calliope.phig.org> Attendees: ----------- John Babich (jmbuser) Eric Christensen (Sparks) Jared Smith (jsmith) Bart Couvreur (couf) Karsten Wade (quaid) Jef Spaleta (spoleeba) Ian Weller (ianweller) Summary: --------- * BIG GOVERNING CHANGES IN STEERING COMMITTEE - FDSCo dropping elections - Steering Committee is opt-in - whoever shows up, helps lead - if you need to opt-out for a while/forever, be responsible and tell - FDSCo decides who are Chair/Vice-Chair - ... and what their duties are! - FDSCo is responsible for making sure leadership remains relevant - Raise subject matter voices - Many leaders instead of One Docs Leader - Visible points of contact for rest of Fedora to find * DOCS SUPPORTS SIGS - http://jspaleta.livejournal.com/22663.html - http://jspaleta.fedorapeople.org/role-based-sigs/sig-teams.png - Docs is the prototypical Fedora subproject - Our subproj role is tools, processes, and content that support ourselves, other subprojs, and the SIGs - In a SIG-centric Fedora, each SIG has a person in the role of documenter, who also works in the Docs subProject * AS SUBPROJ/SIGS TAKES HOLD, ELECTIONS MIGHT BE NECESSARY AGAIN - More SIGs == more voices in Docs - More voices == more room for different ideas and need for elections to define leaders of those voices * WIKI GARDENING UPDATE - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:DocsProject - Content for a Docs contributor audience - Never considered "done" - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Documentation - Content for a wider Fedora audience - Subproj content - SIGs content - End-user content - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:DocumentationDraft - Content in draft - Only used for content that moves to Category:Documentation - MediaWiki Namespace: under review - Helps separate out a large body of content from the main area - Search, etc. - Seems to be a bit heavy for now - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:Lonelypages - Potentially orphaned pages because they are not linked anywhere in the wiki - Crossed with google.com research can show possible dead pages - Can use new {move||~~~~} template https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Template:Move -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat May 31 16:07:19 2008 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten 'quaid' Wade) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 09:07:19 -0700 Subject: Governance, direction of project -- please read Message-ID: <1212250039.17426.70.camel@calliope.phig.org> This meeting summary: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-May/msg00125.html ... is see the result of the last few months of discussion amongst the steering committee members, new and old. We are moving to a lighter-weight leadership model. Those who want to lead, show up and do so. You lead and learn with your actions. Currently, elections are a distraction, leave out out interested people, and make good people feel guilty when they are unable to participate in their elected position. In the future, as the subProj grows, we may need to elect leaders to represent different voices in the overall Fedora community. We'll do that when the time comes. This is really the way Docs has always been -- those who show up to do often end up helping make the decisions. The are effectively the steering committee. Enshrining those folks with an election isn't required right now. Disagree? Show up and influence the thinking. That's how it works. Meanwhile, our focus as a Fedora subProject is on: * Enabling Fedora contributors with content specific for that audience * Garden and care for all of the wiki Thanks, Karsten, a Docs faceguy -- Karsten Wade, Sr. Developer Community Mgr. Dev Fu : http://developer.redhatmagazine.com Fedora : http://quaid.fedorapeople.org gpg key : AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Sat May 31 19:33:50 2008 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Sat, 31 May 2008 21:33:50 +0200 Subject: ati or nvidia cards in documentation In-Reply-To: <1212206396.17426.32.camel@calliope.phig.org> References: <64b14b300805300136u7de9234dq10a177beabbee19b@mail.gmail.com> <483FC092.4010309@fedoraproject.org> <64b14b300805300159y6f3552f7p20ede937ca01fff1@mail.gmail.com> <1212206396.17426.32.camel@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <64b14b300805311233s37a5f2f7p230301ae5761e7ff@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 31, 2008 at 5:59 AM, Karsten 'quaid' Wade wrote: > > On Fri, 2008-05-30 at 10:59 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: >> > We don't usually document proprietary software. Also refer >> > >> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Bugs/F9Common#Proprietary_.28third-party.29_video_drivers >> > >> > Rahul >> >> I'm aware of Fedora Project and proprietary software but I'm just >> trying to say that we need to at least say that somewhere and although >> common bugs page is really nice I would expect it also in release >> notes. > > I just sent a flippant reply to this, but it is worth taking a moment to > respond with more detail. > > There are *many* good reasons not to document the use of closed source > software. Perhaps it is worth writing this up into a short essay on a > wiki page so we can refer to it always. > > At the same time, it can be very painful to not be able to help someone > with their problem, especially when "all you have to do is ..." It is > very human to want to take away their hurt. In Fedora, we know that if > we try to take away short term hurt, we have to be careful that we are > not perpetuating the long term hurt. > > Is this something that is unclear to other people? The reasons why we > only document software that is provided in Fedora? > > Earlier today I removed instructions that Valent put on the > ForbiddenItems page. The instructions pointed to a bug in Firefox that > prevented Firefox's plugin finder from working with installing Adobe's > Flash player. In addition, a link was included to a page describing how > to install Adobe's Flash player. This was all in replacement of a > previous statement that one could use Firefox to install the Flash > plugin. Valent was correcting that original "how-to install" statement > with the bug report et al. In consideration, I think the original > statement was incorrect being there. I guess that you also need/want to correct the page : http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Multimedia/Flash Cheers, Valent. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic