From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 01:01:35 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:01:35 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Testing the Fedora 11 Installation Guide] Message-ID: <20090401010135.GJ24178@localhost.localdomain> Hi Docs team, I didn't know if the IG guru was on fedora-test-list. This seemed like a worthwhile suggestion; maybe the author could be persuaded to file a bug! PWF. ----- Forwarded message from Gireesh Sreekantan ----- From: Gireesh Sreekantan To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 02:29:51 +0530 Subject: Re: Testing the Fedora 11 Installation Guide X-BeenThere: fedora-test-list at redhat.com > As you can see, essentially what we'd like you to do is to take a look > at the Fedora 11 Installation Guide as it currently stands - it's at > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/ - and try installing either > Fedora 11 Beta or current Rawhide according to the instructions found in > the Installation Guide. Should section 7.2 of the install guide have more detail about this feature? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NewTextUI As the developer himself recommends, should users be recommended to try xdriver=vesa before resorting to text mode? ----- End forwarded message ----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 01:12:10 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:12:10 -0400 Subject: Publican Documentation Naming In-Reply-To: <49D295E0.4010402@redhat.com> References: <1238523632.3219.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090331205404.GE24178@localhost.localdomain> <1238533073.3413.12.camel@thunder> <20090331220739.GG24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D295E0.4010402@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090401011210.GK24178@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 06:14:56PM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > On 03/31/2009 06:07 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Now, that works fine for documentation too, in *that* case -- in other > > words, if you make some changes to the basic Security Guide, you would > > of course want to push out the newest Guide in all languages. But > > here's where the subpackage use breaks down: You never see packagers > > issuing a new libfoo-devel package without libfoo changing. And that > > can *definitely* happen in documentation. > > Sure. We see this happening all the time, for bug fixes. Really? People issue a libfoo-devel-1.0-2 package without a concomitant libfoo-1.0-2 package? > > For example, you could add a new, previously unused translation to > > your Guide. Using subpackaging, in order to issue it, you'd have to > > rebuild the entire set of languages, and when you do, our build system > > -- as far as I know -- won't let you just push the one new language > > subpackage out. It would require *all* the language subpackages to be > > reissued, even if they hadn't changed at all. > > You could, but how often does this _ACTUALLY_ happen? I can tell you this happens VERY often, IME in Fedora Docs. > > Here's another twist that might make subpackages even more > > unpalatable. It implies that there will be a *resistance* to pushing > > out translation fixes quickly. There will be a tendency to wait > > before reissuing packages. Subpackages may lower the workload for a > > small Docs team -- you could only issue a quarterly update, or on some > > other regular but liveable basis -- but arguably at the cost of > > friction with the translation teams. > > Honestly, if this is a significant enough problem to need solving, we > should solve it with other mechanisms than overloading CVS with hundreds > of otherwise identical packages. Wait, are these identical? AIUI the SRPMs contain different language content. The en-US SRPM has en-US DocBook XML content, the de-DE SRPM has de-DE DocBook XML content, etc. > We could find a way for koji to build specific subpackages for > translated %doc packages. The spec files would need a set of > conditionals, and we'd need to standardize on lang variables, then build > a mechanism to pass the conditionals through to the builder. > > I would prefer that mechanism, for example. I suspect that Jesse would > too (but I'm CC'ing him in case I'm wrong). In which case we're back to being stuck when we try to push those spec changes back upstream to Publican, right? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 01:14:34 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 21:14:34 -0400 Subject: Publican Documentation Naming In-Reply-To: <20090331224244.GA20998@gmail.com> References: <1238523632.3219.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090331205404.GE24178@localhost.localdomain> <20090331224244.GA20998@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090401011434.GL24178@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 05:42:44PM -0500, Ian Weller wrote: > On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 04:54:04PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > As far as I know, you can't tell our build systems to only > > release one subpackage, and hold back all the others. So if you want > > to issue an update, you would be forced to issue all languages at > > once, and you push an update on everyone, even people whose content is > > not changing at all. > > > However if the packages do not require each other (makes sense) and they > are subpackages, one can only choose certain subpackages to submit as an > update to Bodhi, IIRC. Ah, this is something I got wrong. The build process would still be tremendously long-winded for a small nugget of actual package we care about, but I suppose that is, in fact, why we use computers to do it and not pencil and paper (or monkeys with typewriters). ;-) There are no such package Requires: AFAIK. Worth factoring into the equation, thanks Ian. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Apr 1 03:22:10 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:22:10 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Testing the Fedora 11 Installation Guide] In-Reply-To: <20090401010135.GJ24178@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090401010135.GJ24178@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49D2DDE2.5040900@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > I didn't know if the IG guru was on fedora-test-list. This seemed > like a worthwhile suggestion; maybe the author could be persuaded to > file a bug! > Thanks Paul for the heads-up. > ----- Forwarded message from Gireesh Sreekantan ----- > >> As you can see, essentially what we'd like you to do is to take a look >> at the Fedora 11 Installation Guide as it currently stands - it's at >> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/ This is a link to the version 10 guide. The version 11 guide is substantially different from its predecessor, so the version 10 guide should not be used for testing. Testers should instead use a copy of the version 11 guide from here: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/ (available in HTML, HTML-single and PDF) As it turns out, I think that Gireesh's comment applies to the new version of the guide anyway, because section 7.2 of the old guide wasn't about text mode ("7.2. RAID or Other Nonstandard Configurations") > > Should section 7.2 of the install guide have more detail about this > feature? > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NewTextUI Great idea. I've covered the changes in text mode at a couple of other points in the guide, but missed this obvious one! :) Cheers Rudi From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Apr 1 03:56:10 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 13:56:10 +1000 Subject: Uninstall Fedora - steps In-Reply-To: <20090317132632.GE17102@localhost.localdomain> References: <49BC21CE.6060406@fedoraproject.org> <20090314212643.GD19452@localhost.localdomain> <767C800C-3EB1-4CDA-A28D-227CEAE0BCA9@gmail.com> <1237277970.5918.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090317132632.GE17102@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49D2E5DA.207@redhat.com> People who were following this thread a few weeks back might like to take a look at a new section in the Installation Guide that covers this topic: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/html/ch-x86-uninstall.html This was based mostly on Paul's page on the wiki and (to a lesser degree) some material from the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Installation Guide. Feedback most welcome Cheers Rudi From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 1 12:02:45 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:02:45 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder Message-ID: <1238587365.27669.2.camel@thunder> REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_meetings -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tcallawa at redhat.com Wed Apr 1 12:39:47 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:39:47 -0400 Subject: Publican Documentation Naming In-Reply-To: <20090401011210.GK24178@localhost.localdomain> References: <1238523632.3219.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090331205404.GE24178@localhost.localdomain> <1238533073.3413.12.camel@thunder> <20090331220739.GG24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D295E0.4010402@redhat.com> <20090401011210.GK24178@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49D36093.8000509@redhat.com> On 03/31/2009 09:12 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Really? People issue a libfoo-devel-1.0-2 package without a > concomitant libfoo-1.0-2 package? Concomitant? No. But with changes that only affect libfoo-devel? Yes. > Wait, are these identical? AIUI the SRPMs contain different language > content. The en-US SRPM has en-US DocBook XML content, the de-DE SRPM > has de-DE DocBook XML content, etc. They are identical, with the exception of the "output language". More to the point, the hundreds of spec files would be identical. >> > We could find a way for koji to build specific subpackages for >> > translated %doc packages. The spec files would need a set of >> > conditionals, and we'd need to standardize on lang variables, then build >> > a mechanism to pass the conditionals through to the builder. >> > >> > I would prefer that mechanism, for example. I suspect that Jesse would >> > too (but I'm CC'ing him in case I'm wrong). > > In which case we're back to being stuck when we try to push those spec > changes back upstream to Publican, right? I wouldn't say "stuck". The changes should be reasonably minimal. I gave this some thought last night, and it might be something that could be implemented along with a semi-longstanding feature request with koji: the ability to pass specific --with or --without options through to the build task. Each lang could be a --with or --without as needed. With some Makefile.common love, it could be as easy as: make build WITHOUT="en de fr cz" WITH="es" Also, if we're "stuck" on a tool where we are in fear to make changes to improve it or fix bugs, how open source is that tool? I seriously doubt the package committee would endorse an approach that throws hundreds of documentation packages (different only in translation) at the review system, nor do I think it is likely that they would vote to approve guidelines that enables all of these individual packages to be reviewed in one ticket. However, that is just my opinion, and you're certainly welcome to draft a formal proposal. ~spot From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Apr 1 12:58:33 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 08:58:33 -0400 Subject: Help needed today and tomorrow Message-ID: <8E6F8421C6904C05B2F38E95461BCF7A@Aidan> Tomorrow's string freeze sort of snuck up on us, and we could use all hands on deck between now and tomorrow night. There are a few items that need someone to research and develop some content for, and there are also a few places where we could get some help converting the wiki content to xml. Fortunately, most of the work is done, but there are some holes, a few critical, so if you can spare some time, please raise your hand. Even if you are not an expert on something, you can check the beta repo version against the current and then track down the upstream's release notes to develop some content. Although it might not be as good as having an expert do it, it certainly is better than leaving the user hanging. Places we need content: - Architecture specific notes - Networking (Ryan Lerch?) - Printing - Games and Entertainment - Live spins - Boot time - Security - Servers - Mail, Web, Database, File (Andrew Ross?) - System Daemons - Server tools - File systems (David Nally?) - I have the feeling we are missing some stuff in Scientific and Technical but I haven't had an opportunity to research it fully Larger conversion pieces: - Virtualization - Kernel (lots of little pieces, tho) xml conversion requires git access. The current state of the xml is at http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/Release_Notes.pdf (of course this will change frequently during the day. The real authority is git, and I will endeavor to keep the latest content pushed.) So we don't trip over each other, why don't I coordinate the noon to midnight zulu time period, and hopefully Ryan Lerch can organize the midnight to noon shift. I assume that Ryan and myself will be doing anything that someone else doesn't cover. --McD From dimitris at glezos.com Wed Apr 1 13:08:07 2009 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:08:07 +0200 Subject: Help needed today and tomorrow In-Reply-To: <8E6F8421C6904C05B2F38E95461BCF7A@Aidan> References: <8E6F8421C6904C05B2F38E95461BCF7A@Aidan> Message-ID: <6d4237680904010608vcabe30ft51797d85e573e9ba@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 2:58 PM, John J. McDonough wrote: > Tomorrow's string freeze sort of snuck up on us, and we could use all hands > on deck between now and tomorrow night. Suggestion: If more time is needed, it's better to slip the freeze a couple of days than request a break afterwards. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 13:31:16 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:31:16 -0400 Subject: Publican Documentation Naming In-Reply-To: <49D36093.8000509@redhat.com> References: <1238523632.3219.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090331205404.GE24178@localhost.localdomain> <1238533073.3413.12.camel@thunder> <20090331220739.GG24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D295E0.4010402@redhat.com> <20090401011210.GK24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D36093.8000509@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090401133110.GB4121@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 08:39:47AM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > On 03/31/2009 09:12 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > In which case we're back to being stuck when we try to push those spec > > changes back upstream to Publican, right? > > I wouldn't say "stuck". The changes should be reasonably minimal. I gave > this some thought last night, and it might be something that could be > implemented along with a semi-longstanding feature request with koji: > the ability to pass specific --with or --without options through to the > build task. Each lang could be a --with or --without as needed. With > some Makefile.common love, it could be as easy as: > > make build WITHOUT="en de fr cz" WITH="es" Those changes would be to the packaging CVS Makefile.common, I take it. Interesting, I didn't know there was such a request outstanding. > Also, if we're "stuck" on a tool where we are in fear to make changes to > improve it or fix bugs, how open source is that tool? > > I seriously doubt the package committee would endorse an approach that > throws hundreds of documentation packages (different only in > translation) at the review system, nor do I think it is likely that they > would vote to approve guidelines that enables all of these individual > packages to be reviewed in one ticket. However, that is just my opinion, > and you're certainly welcome to draft a formal proposal. Ian mentioned that subpackages can be passed through to bodhi without implicating all the siblings, which relieves the burden quite a bit. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Wed Apr 1 13:50:18 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:50:18 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Testing the Fedora 11 Installation Guide] In-Reply-To: <20090401010135.GJ24178@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090401010135.GJ24178@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: 2009/3/31 Paul W. Frields : > Hi Docs team, > > I didn't know if the IG guru was on fedora-test-list. ?This seemed > like a worthwhile suggestion; maybe the author could be persuaded to > file a bug! > > PWF. > > ----- Forwarded message from Gireesh Sreekantan ----- > > From: Gireesh Sreekantan > To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases > ? ? ? ? > Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 02:29:51 +0530 > Subject: Re: Testing the Fedora 11 Installation Guide > X-BeenThere: fedora-test-list at redhat.com > >> As you can see, essentially what we'd like you to do is to take a look >> at the Fedora 11 Installation Guide as it currently stands - it's at >> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/ - and try installing either >> Fedora 11 Beta or current Rawhide according to the instructions found in >> the Installation Guide. > > Should section 7.2 of the install guide have more detail about this > feature? > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/NewTextUI > > As the developer himself recommends, should users be recommended to try > xdriver=vesa before resorting to text mode? > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Ugghh - I thought they were going to point to the current build which I am hosting on fedorapeople. From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Apr 1 13:53:27 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 09:53:27 -0400 Subject: Help needed today and tomorrow References: <8E6F8421C6904C05B2F38E95461BCF7A@Aidan> <6d4237680904010608vcabe30ft51797d85e573e9ba@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dimitris Glezos" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 2009 9:08 AM Subject: Re: Help needed today and tomorrow > Suggestion: If more time is needed, it's better to slip the freeze a > couple of days than request a break afterwards. We aren't really in desparate shape. Slipping the freeze puts more pressure on the translators, and I wouldn't like to do that. Not being an l10n guy I can't really understand what those guys go through, but it doesn't look pretty. But the more help we get, the better the quality will be on those pieces that aren't complete. I *think* we are in a place where I can get the pots out myself, but places where we currently have no/weak content in the wiki will be either very weak or totally dropped. 72/73 de WB8RCR http://www.qsl.net/wb8rcr didileydadidah QRP-L #1446 Code Warriors #35 From tcallawa at redhat.com Wed Apr 1 13:56:35 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 09:56:35 -0400 Subject: Publican Documentation Naming In-Reply-To: <20090401133110.GB4121@localhost.localdomain> References: <1238523632.3219.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090331205404.GE24178@localhost.localdomain> <1238533073.3413.12.camel@thunder> <20090331220739.GG24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D295E0.4010402@redhat.com> <20090401011210.GK24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D36093.8000509@redhat.com> <20090401133110.GB4121@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49D37293.2000302@redhat.com> On 04/01/2009 09:31 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> > make build WITHOUT="en de fr cz" WITH="es" > > Those changes would be to the packaging CVS Makefile.common, I take > it. Interesting, I didn't know there was such a request outstanding. To be fair, I don't know if there is a formal request outstanding, but I know it is something that has been discussed on and off for years. >> > Also, if we're "stuck" on a tool where we are in fear to make changes to >> > improve it or fix bugs, how open source is that tool? >> > >> > I seriously doubt the package committee would endorse an approach that >> > throws hundreds of documentation packages (different only in >> > translation) at the review system, nor do I think it is likely that they >> > would vote to approve guidelines that enables all of these individual >> > packages to be reviewed in one ticket. However, that is just my opinion, >> > and you're certainly welcome to draft a formal proposal. > > Ian mentioned that subpackages can be passed through to bodhi without > implicating all the siblings, which relieves the burden quite a bit. Are you sure about this? This would be news to me, but if it is true, it would mean that the biggest concern around translations in subpackages is minimized. ~spot From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 14:46:21 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 10:46:21 -0400 Subject: Publican Documentation Naming In-Reply-To: <49D37293.2000302@redhat.com> References: <1238523632.3219.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090331205404.GE24178@localhost.localdomain> <1238533073.3413.12.camel@thunder> <20090331220739.GG24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D295E0.4010402@redhat.com> <20090401011210.GK24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D36093.8000509@redhat.com> <20090401133110.GB4121@localhost.localdomain> <49D37293.2000302@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090401144621.GD4121@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 09:56:35AM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > On 04/01/2009 09:31 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > >> > make build WITHOUT="en de fr cz" WITH="es" > > > > Those changes would be to the packaging CVS Makefile.common, I take > > it. Interesting, I didn't know there was such a request outstanding. > > To be fair, I don't know if there is a formal request outstanding, but I > know it is something that has been discussed on and off for years. > > >> > Also, if we're "stuck" on a tool where we are in fear to make changes to > >> > improve it or fix bugs, how open source is that tool? > >> > > >> > I seriously doubt the package committee would endorse an approach that > >> > throws hundreds of documentation packages (different only in > >> > translation) at the review system, nor do I think it is likely that they > >> > would vote to approve guidelines that enables all of these individual > >> > packages to be reviewed in one ticket. However, that is just my opinion, > >> > and you're certainly welcome to draft a formal proposal. > > > > Ian mentioned that subpackages can be passed through to bodhi without > > implicating all the siblings, which relieves the burden quite a bit. > > Are you sure about this? This would be news to me, but if it is true, it > would mean that the biggest concern around translations in subpackages > is minimized. Q.v.: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-March/msg00234.html Ian, can you confirm this is correct? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bob at fedoraunity.org Wed Apr 1 14:41:16 2009 From: bob at fedoraunity.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 14:41:16 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Fwd: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded In-Reply-To: <9830797.4571238596597791.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <7472196.4591238596876204.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: accounts at fedoraproject.org To: bob at fedoraunity.org Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 9:06:08 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded sparks has downgraded you to user status in the 'docs' group of the Fedora Accounts System This change is effective immediately for new operations, and should propagate into the e-mail aliases within an hour. Firing people via email... bad form. Might as well go all the way and remove my docs membership while you are at it. Former Fedora Docs Contributor, Robert 'Bob' Jensen ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Robert 'Bob' Jensen || Fedora Unity Founder | | bob at fedoraunity.org || http://fedoraunity.org/ | | http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/ | | http://blogs.fedoraunity.org/bobjensen | | http://www.facebook.com/people/Robert-Bob-Jensen/1332998420 | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Apr 1 15:10:27 2009 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:10:27 -0700 Subject: Publican Documentation Naming In-Reply-To: <49D36093.8000509@redhat.com> References: <1238523632.3219.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090331205404.GE24178@localhost.localdomain> <1238533073.3413.12.camel@thunder> <20090331220739.GG24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D295E0.4010402@redhat.com> <20090401011210.GK24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D36093.8000509@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1238598627.11676.104.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 08:39 -0400, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > I gave > this some thought last night, and it might be something that could be > implemented along with a semi-longstanding feature request with koji: > the ability to pass specific --with or --without options through to the > build task. Each lang could be a --with or --without as needed. With > some Makefile.common love, it could be as easy as: > > make build WITHOUT="en de fr cz" WITH="es" This isn't going to work if you're trying to just produce new subpackages, because the way koji works is at an srpm level. that is, if you issue a new build of a package, only the output of that build is published. Output from previous builds will be removed, even if the new buidl only has a few subpackages and the old build has many more. We don't carry forward any part of previous builds. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom? is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jkeating at redhat.com Wed Apr 1 15:11:19 2009 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:11:19 -0700 Subject: Publican Documentation Naming In-Reply-To: <20090401133110.GB4121@localhost.localdomain> References: <1238523632.3219.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090331205404.GE24178@localhost.localdomain> <1238533073.3413.12.camel@thunder> <20090331220739.GG24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D295E0.4010402@redhat.com> <20090401011210.GK24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D36093.8000509@redhat.com> <20090401133110.GB4121@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1238598679.11676.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 09:31 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Ian mentioned that subpackages can be passed through to bodhi without > implicating all the siblings, which relieves the burden quite a bit. I'm about 100% sure that this is not possible. That's just not how koji works. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom? is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 15:18:29 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 20:48:29 +0530 Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10903210504q1bb67763jc4ec0db41bd053ad@mail.gmail.com> <91B4D2D4-702C-49EA-9278-720EB5B44724@gmail.com> <146c63b10903220720j7cddc9b5hcba8c71f83b7925d@mail.gmail.com> <20090324195934.GF16319@calliope.phig.org> <146c63b10903241344ybcd625crb8cb189da55dc3b1@mail.gmail.com> <20090325230109.GK16319@calliope.phig.org> <20090326144236.GC10723@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> Hello, On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 10:31 AM, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote: > DocBook does not lend itself to WYSIWYG paradigm very naturally. Would > it be possible for you to take time for a small mock-up ? I have uploaded a small mock-up on http://92.243.3.101/editor/test.php (It would be best if you could open that link in Firefox) . 1. I have modified beacon to show DocBook as an option for document type. 2. I have added support to edit DocBook sections, paragraphs and list. As can be seen in the demo, when we click on any portion of that document, an inline editor for that portion opens up (paragraphs cannot handle as yet). 3. For styling tags, I have implemented a Boldface formatter. Once you click on any paragraph or list to edit it, any portion of that text can be selected and made bold (clicking twice does not unbold it as yet). 4. The sidebar is meant to show the document tree. The functionality is very limited as yet, but it will serve to provide an idea of what to expect. Regards, Satya From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 15:25:42 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 11:25:42 -0400 Subject: Fwd: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded In-Reply-To: <7472196.4591238596876204.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> References: <9830797.4571238596597791.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <7472196.4591238596876204.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <20090401152542.GE4121@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 02:41:16PM +0000, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > From: accounts at fedoraproject.org > To: bob at fedoraunity.org > Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 9:06:08 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central > Subject: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded > > > sparks has downgraded you to user status in the > 'docs' group of the Fedora Accounts System This change is > effective immediately for new operations, and should propagate > into the e-mail aliases within an hour. > > Firing people via email... bad form. Might as well go all the way > and remove my docs membership while you are at it. > > Former Fedora Docs Contributor, > Robert 'Bob' Jensen In general, I think any team ought to reach out to people if access levels need to change for some reason. An example might be packager group changes, which are typically relayed to fedora-devel-announce. I think that Eric was discussing the need to put active people in sponsorship roles on IRC earlier. I talked to him briefly and we agreed that these sorts of things should go to the list first, to give plenty of notice. Let's also try and cut Eric a bit of slack while he's getting the hang of holding the reins of the team -- there's a lot going on, and I'm sure no slight was intended. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 15:24:26 2009 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 08:24:26 -0700 Subject: Publican Documentation Naming In-Reply-To: <49D37293.2000302@redhat.com> References: <1238523632.3219.28.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090331205404.GE24178@localhost.localdomain> <1238533073.3413.12.camel@thunder> <20090331220739.GG24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D295E0.4010402@redhat.com> <20090401011210.GK24178@localhost.localdomain> <49D36093.8000509@redhat.com> <20090401133110.GB4121@localhost.localdomain> <49D37293.2000302@redhat.com> Message-ID: <49D3872A.8010801@gmail.com> Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > On 04/01/2009 09:31 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >>>> make build WITHOUT="en de fr cz" WITH="es" >> Those changes would be to the packaging CVS Makefile.common, I take >> it. Interesting, I didn't know there was such a request outstanding. > > To be fair, I don't know if there is a formal request outstanding, but I > know it is something that has been discussed on and off for years. > I know of no formal request. Hard to say what the koji maintainers will think about this without that. My WAG is that they won't like it as: 1) It reduces the reproducability of builds. koji can store the WITH/WITHOUT flags but someone getting the SRPM from the build won't know what those flags were. 2) How are we going to decide whether to keep the SRPMS? Every time we update the package and build with only a limited number of languages we'll be leaving some language packages built from the old SRPM around. So we could end up saving a huge number of SRPMS (up to one for every translation) rather than the current latest or latest + (latest - 1). >>>> Also, if we're "stuck" on a tool where we are in fear to make changes to >>>> improve it or fix bugs, how open source is that tool? >>>> >>>> I seriously doubt the package committee would endorse an approach that >>>> throws hundreds of documentation packages (different only in >>>> translation) at the review system, nor do I think it is likely that they >>>> would vote to approve guidelines that enables all of these individual >>>> packages to be reviewed in one ticket. However, that is just my opinion, >>>> and you're certainly welcome to draft a formal proposal. I would be for throwing each translation at the review system if we can't find a better way (and I don't think that WITH/WITHOUT is a better way). I would not be for reviewing all of these packages in one ticket. I would be for a streamlined process if it can be sanely decided what that process is. The problem is that we're dealing with content rather than code here. A translation of a book is a book in and of itself (Just browse Amazon for Machiavelli's The Prince to see this phenomena with multiple translations *into a single language*.) Each book has its own release schedule, own revisions, etc. Options: 1) Docs could lay an artificial release schedule on all of the publications (ie: new versions of the Security Guide will be released quarterly. Authors and translators need to have their work submitted by Month/Day in order to be included in the new package) 2) We can have one source package per translation. I personally don't see a Guideline issue with this. But the burden on docs increases because they need to provide packagers, reviewers (and maintain all of these packages as they make revisions) in order for this to succeed. 3) We could get the CC repo that's been bandied about up and running and stick docs content in there (that means that we'd have dependencies between the two repos, though.) 4) There could be one source package that encompasses the book and its translations and docs updates these as new revisions come in. End users will have to download a new revision every time one of the translations changes although presto might mitigate some of that. >> Ian mentioned that subpackages can be passed through to bodhi without >> implicating all the siblings, which relieves the burden quite a bit. > > Are you sure about this? This would be news to me, but if it is true, it > would mean that the biggest concern around translations in subpackages > is minimized. > Unfortunately, it's not true. Pushing in bodhi associates with a source rpm rather than built-binary packages. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 1 15:41:02 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 11:41:02 -0400 Subject: Role changes... helping new members. Message-ID: <1238600462.3193.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> If you haven't noticed, a lot of my "leadership" comes from the Navy. From that I am trying to extrapolate on the "Sea Dad" program where new sailors coming to a command will have a senior member to look to for advice, answers to questions, and to get up to speed on what they are supposed to work on. I need strong, active members to step up and be these senior members to mentor the more junior members that are joining us. In this way we can get new members up to speed and moving towards being productive members. Our FAS system has groups and members in the system which allows us to "manage" our members. That group includes three different types of members: administrators, sponsors, and users. A few minutes ago I cleaned out all the sponsors (moved them back to user status) and have upgraded a couple of users to sponsor level. My plan is to have these sponsors actually become a "Sea Dad" for new members. They accept these new members by sponsoring their membership. I'll be working with these sponsors to make sure we have consistency with all new members. This idea is being fleshed out more and will be discussed more in the near future. Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bob at fedoraunity.org Wed Apr 1 15:46:41 2009 From: bob at fedoraunity.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 15:46:41 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded In-Reply-To: <2894080.4691238600689048.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <3676643.4711238600801891.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Forgive my top post but this client is problematic. Gave up on working with upstream to fix it. In the past when changes like this happened they were discussed and an attempt to contact the people effected was made. This is the problem and the most annoying point of this whole action item. I don't care about the change in status, in fact I agree with it I have not been able to be active in quite some time. I have been trying to read the meeting minutes or summaries so that I can speak up if needed or chip in for a very small task. Hopefully in this calendar year things can get back to having more time to contribute. You know where to find me. Best Regards, Robert 'Bob' Jensen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 10:25:42 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: Fwd: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded In general, I think any team ought to reach out to people if access levels need to change for some reason. An example might be packager group changes, which are typically relayed to fedora-devel-announce. I think that Eric was discussing the need to put active people in sponsorship roles on IRC earlier. I talked to him briefly and we agreed that these sorts of things should go to the list first, to give plenty of notice. Let's also try and cut Eric a bit of slack while he's getting the hang of holding the reins of the team -- there's a lot going on, and I'm sure no slight was intended. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 16:07:10 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 21:37:10 +0530 Subject: Reset root password Message-ID: <78323d480904010907k6a115a08n885a95b768f3018@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Rino Mardo wrote: >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Reset_Bootloader_Password >>> >> There is no separate Rescue CD .... changed >> >> Will the password line be within one line in all cases? >> Then the whole thing can be done in one command >> >> All users may not have the Fedora install/live cd/dvd ?with them. >> So it makes sense to have other methods. >> >> USB rescue missing >> > > well in that case there's also others like Knoppix. yeah USB rescue > for those who have netbooks. Added enough lines for those cases. Changed /etc/grub.conf to /boot/grub/grub.conf ....assuming Fedora-11 has not reverted the file to the ancient location. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknTkjkACgkQunMISzvdfU45WQCggXZNGLYUWrF5OzDQNkstvvtq kb0AoIT56w4wfxPFWPqRE2NWYZ+zrh5K =JnwX -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 16:08:56 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 12:08:56 -0400 Subject: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded In-Reply-To: <3676643.4711238600801891.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> References: <2894080.4691238600689048.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <3676643.4711238600801891.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <20090401160856.GI4121@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 03:46:41PM +0000, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > Forgive my top post but this client is problematic. Gave up on > working with upstream to fix it. > > In the past when changes like this happened they were discussed and > an attempt to contact the people effected was made. This is the > problem and the most annoying point of this whole action item. I > don't care about the change in status, in fact I agree with it I > have not been able to be active in quite some time. I have been > trying to read the meeting minutes or summaries so that I can speak > up if needed or chip in for a very small task. Hopefully in this > calendar year things can get back to having more time to contribute. > > You know where to find me. I agree that teams should always put the communicate phase before the action phase. With a community that's so spread out and mostly populated by willing volunteers, the most effective way of doing that is getting something onto the mailing list. That way, transparency is preserved, and discussion can happen wherever needed. I'm sure that as the people working on this team get comfortable in their roles, there will be new and better ways to contribute and collaborate with each other. The Docs team always has been, and should remain, open to everyone to participate as little or as much as they wish. I'm certain Eric, John, Susan, David, and the other folks who have stepped up to lead this team will do their best to make that happen. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bob at fedoraunity.org Wed Apr 1 16:39:46 2009 From: bob at fedoraunity.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 16:39:46 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded In-Reply-To: <20090401160856.GI4121@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <7769026.4811238603986000.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Should http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_charter be revised? It is no longer valid as it stands. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 11:08:56 AM GMT -06:00 US/Canada Central Subject: Re: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded I agree that teams should always put the communicate phase before the action phase. With a community that's so spread out and mostly populated by willing volunteers, the most effective way of doing that is getting something onto the mailing list. That way, transparency is preserved, and discussion can happen wherever needed. I'm sure that as the people working on this team get comfortable in their roles, there will be new and better ways to contribute and collaborate with each other. The Docs team always has been, and should remain, open to everyone to participate as little or as much as they wish. I'm certain Eric, John, Susan, David, and the other folks who have stepped up to lead this team will do their best to make that happen. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 17:34:13 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 1 Apr 2009 13:34:13 -0400 Subject: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded In-Reply-To: <7769026.4811238603986000.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> References: <20090401160856.GI4121@localhost.localdomain> <7769026.4811238603986000.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <20090401173413.GP4121@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 04:39:46PM +0000, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > Should > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_charter > be revised? It is no longer valid as it stands. I agree, there's a lot of outdated process pages that need to be swept away, and that's probably one of them. These probably need to happen as part of a concerted effort so we don't end up with half missing and half broken. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 1 18:01:27 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 14:01:27 -0400 Subject: Your Fedora 'docs' membership has been downgraded In-Reply-To: <20090401173413.GP4121@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090401160856.GI4121@localhost.localdomain> <7769026.4811238603986000.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> <20090401173413.GP4121@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1238608887.3193.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 13:34 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, Apr 01, 2009 at 04:39:46PM +0000, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > > Should > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_charter > > be revised? It is no longer valid as it stands. > > I agree, there's a lot of outdated process pages that need to be swept > away, and that's probably one of them. These probably need to happen > as part of a concerted effort so we don't end up with half missing and > half broken. I agree fully. I've started a "talk" page to discuss specific changes. Eric [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_charter -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rino.mardo at gmail.com Wed Apr 1 22:11:51 2009 From: rino.mardo at gmail.com (Rino Mardo) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 01:11:51 +0300 Subject: Reset root password In-Reply-To: <78323d480904010907k6a115a08n885a95b768f3018@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480904010907k6a115a08n885a95b768f3018@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: ahh, now i'm beginning to see how things work here. :-) On Wed, Apr 1, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Mani A wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Rino Mardo wrote: > >>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Reset_Bootloader_Password >>>> >>> There is no separate Rescue CD .... changed >>> >>> Will the password line be within one line in all cases? >>> Then the whole thing can be done in one command >>> >>> All users may not have the Fedora install/live cd/dvd ?with them. >>> So it makes sense to have other methods. >>> >>> USB rescue missing >>> >> >> well in that case there's also others like Knoppix. yeah USB rescue >> for those who have netbooks. > > Added enough lines for those cases. > > Changed /etc/grub.conf to /boot/grub/grub.conf ?....assuming Fedora-11 > has not reverted the file to the ancient location. > > > Best > > A. Mani > > > ?-- > A. Mani > Member, Cal. Math. Soc > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAknTkjkACgkQunMISzvdfU45WQCggXZNGLYUWrF5OzDQNkstvvtq > kb0AoIT56w4wfxPFWPqRE2NWYZ+zrh5K > =JnwX > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu Apr 2 00:33:27 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 10:33:27 +1000 Subject: Uninstall Fedora - steps In-Reply-To: <49D2E5DA.207@redhat.com> References: <49BC21CE.6060406@fedoraproject.org> <20090314212643.GD19452@localhost.localdomain> <767C800C-3EB1-4CDA-A28D-227CEAE0BCA9@gmail.com> <1237277970.5918.47.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090317132632.GE17102@localhost.localdomain> <49D2E5DA.207@redhat.com> Message-ID: <49D407D7.60306@redhat.com> Ruediger Landmann wrote: > People who were following this thread a few weeks back might like to > take a look at a new section in the Installation Guide that covers > this topic: > http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/html/ch-x86-uninstall.html > Sorry people; that should have been http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/en-US/html/ch-x86-uninstall.html From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Apr 2 01:37:18 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:37:18 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2009-04-01 IRC log Message-ID: <1238636238.27669.22.camel@thunder> Apr 01 20:00:15 Apr 01 20:00:15 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings Apr 01 20:00:19 Roll call! Apr 01 20:00:20 let the boy change the topic at least :) Apr 01 20:00:26 * radsy is here Apr 01 20:00:26 * quaid esta aqui Apr 01 20:00:34 * jjmcd here Apr 01 20:00:42 * Sparks is here Apr 01 20:00:51 * glezos ????? ??? Apr 01 20:01:15 if that seemed all greek to you.. I'm here. Apr 01 20:01:31 wordplay! Apr 01 20:01:47 glezos: sometime in a bar remind me to tell you my story about greek Apr 01 20:01:50 * Sparks er her Apr 01 20:02:20 -- Apr 01 20:02:23 glezos: Everything looks greek to me at this hour Apr 01 20:02:27 * Renault has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.1b3/20090327190841]") Apr 01 20:02:34 * joat says "me too!" Apr 01 20:02:48 * ryanlerch (n=rlerch at nat/redhat/x-0dd0cf536998819b) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:02:58 Okay... I see one of my stars on board so let's go harass him. Apr 01 20:03:04 Oh, I spoke too soon! Both of them! Apr 01 20:03:06 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd Apr 01 20:03:10 jcm jcollie jds2001 Jeff_S jeremy jjmcd jlaska jnettlet joat juhp jwb Apr 01 20:03:19 jjmcd: Okay, let me have it! Apr 01 20:03:20 OK, I basically got 4 kinds of beats Apr 01 20:03:23 * rudi (n=rlandman at nat/redhat/x-6dae8d4e0825a1f2) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:03:28 ok' Apr 01 20:04:07 * RodrigoPadula has quit ("Saindo") Apr 01 20:04:30 Oh Apr 01 20:04:38 When you said.... never mind Apr 01 20:04:51 1) No content in wiki, not sure whether any changes, might drop: Apr 01 20:04:51 Arch specific, printing, daemons, server config tools Apr 01 20:04:52 jjmcd: You here tonight? I might not be Apr 01 20:05:01 2) Limited content in wiki, might go with limited content: Apr 01 20:05:01 Entertainment, Live, Security Apr 01 20:05:08 3) NEED CONTENT: Apr 01 20:05:08 Networking, boot, web, mail, database, file servers Apr 01 20:05:15 4) Significant chunks of wiki to convert: Apr 01 20:05:16 Virtualization, Xorg, Cluster, Kernel Apr 01 20:05:16 (Virtualization is an update hence tedious, Xorg could use more content) Apr 01 20:05:26 Just talked to Ryan, he can deal with xorg Apr 01 20:05:44 The more help we can get the less we will have to drop, but basically Apr 01 20:05:56 we need to be done midday tommorow eastern so we can make the pot Apr 01 20:06:15 jjmcd: Have you worked the kinks out of the pot? Apr 01 20:06:25 We know how to make the pot Apr 01 20:06:31 cool Apr 01 20:06:33 We think we can then use the result Apr 01 20:06:41 That second part hasn't been proven, but Apr 01 20:06:51 stickster and glezos seem to thinnk it isn't a problem Apr 01 20:06:59 And you are going with that? Apr 01 20:07:03 :) Apr 01 20:07:03 yes Apr 01 20:07:06 So what do you need from me/Docs? Apr 01 20:07:06 right, it's no worse than what we've done in the past Apr 01 20:07:26 There are a few strings in the po files for the F10 notes that can be reused: the Welcome section and maybe some section titles Apr 01 20:07:26 We could use some hands to research servers, networking Apr 01 20:07:36 and do some of the remaining conversions Apr 01 20:07:45 without the py tools it is basically cut and paste Apr 01 20:08:01 jjmcd: you mean the xml conversion tools? Apr 01 20:08:06 yeah Apr 01 20:08:18 Okay, I think there have been some advances to the NetworkManager... not sure about the rest Apr 01 20:08:19 the ones that need some library or another and don't work anymore Apr 01 20:08:27 * stickster_afk is now known as stickster Apr 01 20:08:28 I'm not so sure cut/paste isn't easier anyway Apr 01 20:08:35 jjmcd: aren't there packages we can use now, although not yet in the repo? Apr 01 20:08:48 Seems like there was something broken Apr 01 20:08:53 * quaid is sorry, shall we hold tool discussions for a bit? Apr 01 20:09:04 quaid: Yeah, that's coming up Apr 01 20:09:10 Yeah, there's only a few larger pieces anyway Apr 01 20:09:18 quaid: Of course we can merge the topics... Apr 01 20:09:23 cut/paste probably would take a total of a couple of hours Apr 01 20:09:27 * quaid should wait :) Apr 01 20:09:34 but if someone does that I can research the missing pieces Apr 01 20:09:58 Okay... who can step up for some last minute research and converting? Apr 01 20:10:16 The first ten people get a piece of cherry pie (I baked yesterday). Apr 01 20:10:30 quaid: Are you guys talking about the problems with mw-render? Apr 01 20:10:42 jjmcd: I can try to get some additional information on NetworkManager. Apr 01 20:10:45 quaid: Are you guys talking about the problems with mw-render? Apr 01 20:10:55 jjmcd: ^^ Apr 01 20:11:00 That would be a help Apr 01 20:11:01 stickster: yes Apr 01 20:11:01 yes Apr 01 20:11:10 I think you can download the odfpy07 review SRPM package that's in Bugzilla and rebuild it locally Apr 01 20:11:15 but over the past few weeks we've gotten most dome by hand Apr 01 20:11:20 that's what I'm talking 'bout! Apr 01 20:11:27 so rather than spend time trying to make the tool work Apr 01 20:11:44 when's it needed by? Apr 01 20:11:50 Tomorrow Apr 01 20:11:53 at noon Apr 01 20:11:55 and most of the conversion is done Apr 01 20:11:58 jjmcd: Yeah, you don't want to spin useful cycles making a tool work when you could just do some elbow grease Apr 01 20:11:59 thanks to Ryan Apr 01 20:12:00 jjmcd: is that noon EDT? Apr 01 20:12:08 ouch... Apr 01 20:12:22 I figure noon EDT or so will give us plenty of time for pits, git branches etc Apr 01 20:12:27 pots I mean Apr 01 20:12:38 pots or pits Apr 01 20:12:48 We still need a strategy for l10n Apr 01 20:12:55 I clarified on the timing to f-devel-l et al, fwiw Apr 01 20:13:09 to see a clean one pot system while not loosing our 30~ pots Apr 01 20:13:24 but I don't see that as a big problem Apr 01 20:14:03 jjmcd: The "strategy" is, I think, to create a new git branch, put the one POT in that branch and remove the other POTs, have Transifex use that branch, and let the L10n'ers know. Apr 01 20:14:13 Yep I think that's it Apr 01 20:14:26 that's more like a tactic, in my book :) Apr 01 20:14:30 The 'master' branch will retain everything in a normal Publican fashion Apr 01 20:14:54 that was my thought, assuming tx can use an arbitrary branch Apr 01 20:14:54 quaid: Yeah, you caught me, but I think that's what was asked for Apr 01 20:14:58 we need to interact with an admin of translate.fedoraproject.org Apr 01 20:15:09 although theoretically we could grow knowledge of how to add modules within our group, if we want Apr 01 20:15:13 I'm sure either Rasther or glezos would be able to help there. Apr 01 20:15:30 So are we planning to have L10N create one big po per language? Apr 01 20:15:37 yep Apr 01 20:15:53 Then we will merge those strings into the individual pos Apr 01 20:15:54 and then slice it up to reinsert in to Publican? Apr 01 20:16:00 exactly Apr 01 20:16:07 ah, ok, that's a nicer way to say it, merge. Apr 01 20:16:28 Apparently there is some tool Apr 01 20:16:28 slice and dice Apr 01 20:16:30 That will be an non-trivial task for the Install guide with ~700 po files Apr 01 20:16:55 only if it requires manual intervention? Apr 01 20:16:57 bash is my friend Apr 01 20:17:04 * laubersm (n=laubersm at 72-255-35-203.client.stsn.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:17:24 jjmcd: yes, msgmerge Apr 01 20:17:25 I'm happy to see so many people raise their hands to help Apr 01 20:17:44 * quaid loves to play in bash Apr 01 20:18:11 * jjmcd often reverts to C - the angels' language Apr 01 20:18:11 jjmcd: I can do the Virt beat Apr 01 20:18:25 where is the list? Apr 01 20:18:31 quaid: See above ^^^^ Apr 01 20:18:35 We got good content, but the conversion will be a bit of a pain Apr 01 20:18:36 * laubersm pops in to try to catch up Apr 01 20:18:47 'round 00:04 Apr 01 20:19:08 http://fpaste.org/paste/7653 Apr 01 20:20:17 laubersm: Need to get done tomorrow midday ehat we're talking about Apr 01 20:20:20 jjmcd: Is there anything we can steal/borrow from KDE and GNOME for arch specific? Apr 01 20:20:33 Sparks: Wouldn't make sense, they're higher up the stack. Apr 01 20:20:45 Typically those involve things like minimum hardware requirements and install gotchas Apr 01 20:20:54 stickster: Ahhh.. Okay Apr 01 20:20:55 I didn't see anything arch specific there - I'm not so sure there really is anything Apr 01 20:21:11 OK, so maybe we need to review the F10 notes Apr 01 20:22:07 Okay... let's come back to this at the end to get the volunteers. Apr 01 20:22:28 any other questions about the Release notes? Apr 01 20:22:58 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Beat writers flagging content for alpha/beta one-sheet Apr 01 20:23:10 ok, this was mine Apr 01 20:23:12 Okay... not sure what this is but I'm pretty sure I didn't put it up Apr 01 20:23:14 Oh good... Apr 01 20:23:16 Go quaid Apr 01 20:23:55 a question came up on f-i18n-l because they have some cool new tech (ibus) that didn't get in either the announcement and or the one page Beta notes Apr 01 20:24:01 I'm sure it's on their beat Apr 01 20:24:06 * inode0 has quit ("Leaving.") Apr 01 20:24:08 and that is where it *should* be, right? Apr 01 20:24:12 they right one source, etc. Apr 01 20:24:26 but how do the rest of us know what needs early Alpha or Beta mention, talking points, etc. Apr 01 20:24:31 other than combing features, etc. Apr 01 20:24:35 so I wondered what to do? Apr 01 20:24:53 at the least, give beat writers a way to flag their content as worth a mention in either the Alpha or Beta or Preview ... Apr 01 20:25:30 * jjmcd would rather leave that to the marketing guys Apr 01 20:25:53 * k0k (n=k0k at fedora/k0k) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:25:57 * Sparks has an idea Apr 01 20:26:27 jjmcd: well, the announcement and talking points ... but what about release notes worthy content? and can this all be covered with one set of instructions for beat writers? Apr 01 20:26:38 * izaac has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Apr 01 20:26:39 * quaid has no plan fwiw Apr 01 20:26:45 Okay... Just an idea... Apr 01 20:26:48 just that we have a system we can build on, etc. Apr 01 20:26:51 * quaid listens Apr 01 20:27:10 If each beat is its own page... Apr 01 20:27:17 they can be marked with a category... Apr 01 20:27:28 and then we can use those categories to create the docs... Apr 01 20:27:48 so when they are ready for their item to be included they just add the appropriate cat. Apr 01 20:27:52 Apr 01 20:28:03 aren't they in a category or two already? Apr 01 20:28:21 Maybe... Apr 01 20:28:28 ok, we could have a [[Category:Release notes beat Beta content]] for example Apr 01 20:28:33 yes Apr 01 20:28:39 * quaid sees that some are not in a category, *ick* :D Apr 01 20:28:43 So we would see when something got added to that cat. Apr 01 20:28:55 right, that sources it Apr 01 20:29:03 The category makes a page, tho. DevTools has over 100 changes Apr 01 20:29:06 This is being done for something but I don't remember what it is Apr 01 20:29:15 if they want to consider something as a talking point for release announcements and PR, they could add that cat, too, i suppose. Apr 01 20:29:38 And they shouldn't add the cat until they are DONE... finished... no more editing. Apr 01 20:29:41 jjmcd: so we'd need some way within the page to mark specific content ... Apr 01 20:29:48 Yeah Apr 01 20:29:51 Sparks: well, not for Beta, for example Apr 01 20:30:01 Well............ Apr 01 20:30:02 yeah Apr 01 20:30:13 and we need to churn discussion before beats are done; Paul and marketing Apr 01 20:30:30 have been talking up stuff that are mainly Apr 01 20:30:32 in feature pages. Apr 01 20:31:04 That discussion mostly on dev-list? Apr 01 20:31:15 no, I mean Marketing Apr 01 20:31:28 to the press, blogs, talking points, etc. Apr 01 20:31:54 * stickster points out that Marketing concentrates on just a few features that have a really compelling story that can be built around them Apr 01 20:31:57 mmmm .... good point, there are a lot of cool stuff that ain't on the feature pages Apr 01 20:32:34 stickster: I'm thinking we might as well have a way for beat writers to hook in to that machine with suggestions without having to create a feature page; a feature doesn't always apply, does it? Apr 01 20:32:57 What do you mean, have beat writers suggest stories to Marketing? Apr 01 20:33:23 a beat writer may know about a technical change that is worthy of being a talking point, but that isn't a Feature Apr 01 20:33:32 * k0k has quit ("Saliendo") Apr 01 20:33:39 and since Docs Apr 01 20:33:43 does the release announcements Apr 01 20:33:53 and does it on more than just the talking points for the Alpha ... PR Apr 01 20:34:06 it helps if we know some of that too, right? Apr 01 20:34:20 There are many groups of features that would be exciting to some niche audiences. I don't know whether the marketing guys have the cycles for that, but it could be fertile ground Apr 01 20:34:35 well, we can collect it without using it. Apr 01 20:34:35 jjmcd: The point of the Marketing talking points is to reach the widest possible audience Apr 01 20:34:54 Yes, so it is different from the talking points Apr 01 20:34:55 quaid: I guess I'm not seeing where a technical change that's not a feature is going to be important enough to qualify Apr 01 20:35:08 Maybe an example would help Apr 01 20:35:08 however, we have niche audiences that could get niche release focuse; e.g. software developers Apr 01 20:35:15 exctly Apr 01 20:35:32 Chitlesh has a nice story for electronic designers Apr 01 20:35:50 there are a lot of goodies for hams Apr 01 20:35:53 quaid: And that's the purpose of the reorganized release notes, right? Apr 01 20:35:55 heh, I dunno, if it's not a feature, how do I know about it? Apr 01 20:36:10 i.e. "New for Software Developers," "New for SysAdmins," etc. Apr 01 20:36:23 stickster: right, and having a beat writer call out the top 10 items from 100 devel tool changes would be helpful Apr 01 20:36:25 But do you go tell that to Dr. Dobbs Journal? Apr 01 20:37:08 I think it's important for us not to overload the talking point process right now, which is young and still unsteady on its feet Apr 01 20:37:10 stickster: well, ok, I guess it undermines the feature process of "own it enough to make a feature page and you get marketing attention" Apr 01 20:37:20 quaid: Good point. Apr 01 20:37:25 but we can collect that info via categories Apr 01 20:37:38 to gather foci for Alpha, Beta, and PR Apr 01 20:37:55 I think the final announcement needs to continue the tight-and-not-overloaded following of the talking points we have established. Apr 01 20:38:09 Yes I agree Apr 01 20:38:22 ok, I'll make a note in my ever morphing task list Apr 01 20:38:33 to create a set of categories for the beats to use as a workflow/transition state flags Apr 01 20:38:35 * jsmith (n=jsmith at asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:38:38 But it seems to me it would be cool id Paul colud have a story for some niche publications that might not be interested in just another Linux release Apr 01 20:38:44 * zwu|gone is now known as zwu Apr 01 20:38:48 and we can publicize those for the Preview Release Apr 01 20:39:09 jjmcd: well, maybe the process of convering as we go on the relnotes helps him find that stuff earlier Apr 01 20:39:45 Perhaps we should have some "cool for this audience" wiki pages Apr 01 20:40:00 * Sparks notes that it is 40 minutes after the hour and spot needs to go eat... Apr 01 20:40:56 quaid: So you have a plan? Apr 01 20:40:56 * quaid is done with his task taken Apr 01 20:41:01 :) Apr 01 20:41:02 I think we got it, yeah Apr 01 20:41:04 anything else? Apr 01 20:41:05 thx Apr 01 20:41:09 eoitem Apr 01 20:41:16 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - An update to "Publican fix for Fedora?" Apr 01 20:41:25 thx for hanging spot :D Apr 01 20:41:28 so... let me make a few points quickly here Apr 01 20:41:42 I have given this a LOT of thought over the last day or so Apr 01 20:41:58 especially after learning about the limitations of our build/errata tools and RPM Apr 01 20:42:24 my biggest concern about lang separated SRPMs is this: In RHEL, there are 2,104 doc packages Apr 01 20:42:37 thats 2104 reviews. Apr 01 20:42:41 wow Apr 01 20:42:46 That's scary. Apr 01 20:42:52 A plethora! Apr 01 20:43:00 i honestly don't think it scales without a concerted effort Apr 01 20:43:19 now, if you guys say "we'll tag team and knock them all out on our own", then i will back away slowly Apr 01 20:43:47 as is, we approved the other two items that were on FPC's agenda on tuesday Apr 01 20:43:56 * permitting desktop files inline Apr 01 20:44:15 * allowing distro versioning in name when Docs Project determines it is necessary Apr 01 20:44:33 so, once FESCo ratifies those items Apr 01 20:44:43 (which they should do on Friday, hopefully) Apr 01 20:44:54 should we have $who there? Apr 01 20:45:12 there would be nothing preventing you guys from filing package review requests for several thousand doc packages Apr 01 20:45:29 the guidelines don't say you can't carpetbomb the review requests Apr 01 20:46:01 * stickster shudders to see other packager reaction at both that, and then the film-in-reverse anti-carpetbombing of review approvals Apr 01 20:46:24 i really wish there was a way to make the lang packages as subpackages, but in talking to folks like paul and mike hideo about this issue, i don't think that it is possible Apr 01 20:46:29 * Sparks thinks we'll have to get a B-29 for the bombing Apr 01 20:46:49 the only thing i would suggest is this Apr 01 20:47:05 Write a simplified template for doing publican based doc reviews Apr 01 20:47:18 also, write a review checklist Apr 01 20:47:23 and publicize the hell out of it Apr 01 20:47:38 so that you have an example "good spec" and a checklist Apr 01 20:47:49 i'd be happy to sanity check both Apr 01 20:48:05 then, i wish you luck and i hide in my bunker Apr 01 20:48:13 ;) Apr 01 20:48:15 isn't Publican supposed to kick out an SRPM that can be directly and minimally reviewed? Apr 01 20:48:20 We'll definitely be checking in with you so we are all in sync. Apr 01 20:48:29 quaid: Supposed to Apr 01 20:48:30 that is, once the base of what it does is approved or fixed or whathaveyou ... Apr 01 20:48:50 quaid: Once Publican behaves itself then it should be too difficult to review. Apr 01 20:48:51 quaid: yes, but you have to realize that the average person is going to see "HolyCrap-Documentation_Everywhere-OMG_WTF-1.0-ja" Apr 01 20:48:58 and they aren't going to want to review it. Apr 01 20:49:07 are we considering the multiple language SRPMS because: Apr 01 20:49:16 a) Publican only supports that and we have no choice Apr 01 20:49:28 b) We think it's the right way to go (f-r-n is 20 MB and growing ...) Apr 01 20:49:40 quaid: our infrastructure can't handle updating just a single lang subpackage Apr 01 20:49:42 c) Publican could be made to support something else and we'd prefer that, but can't make that happen Apr 01 20:49:59 d) all of the above Apr 01 20:50:05 so, if that is important to you, your only real option is to separate out by lang Apr 01 20:50:12 ah Apr 01 20:50:19 i tried literally for several hours to find another way Apr 01 20:50:21 so if i want to update the French release notes Apr 01 20:50:23 there just isn't one Apr 01 20:50:26 quaid: Yeah, ianweller unfortunately was mistaken about that one Apr 01 20:50:27 right now I need to push a whole package Apr 01 20:50:36 and with subpackages, i would have to update the base and all the subs? Apr 01 20:50:51 but with true stand-alone perlang packages, i can update them individually. Apr 01 20:50:57 quaid: Right. Apr 01 20:51:00 ok Apr 01 20:51:07 At least, spot and f13 both say that's how it works. Apr 01 20:51:13 (which to me means bankworthy) Apr 01 20:51:14 so Apr 01 20:51:28 if (b) is the way, we think it's right and Publican is pushing us in the right direction ... Apr 01 20:51:37 then doesn't our decision fall from that realization? Apr 01 20:51:46 well, again, the question is: Apr 01 20:51:59 how realistic is your need to push single lang subpackages separately? Apr 01 20:52:02 Packaged up I don't know how big it would be, but right now the IG with its 36 languages and dozens of screenshots in each language is up to 600 MB here Apr 01 20:52:07 We have a ways to go before we get to "thousands", but not as far as we would like Apr 01 20:52:09 if it is a real need, then its a need. Apr 01 20:52:21 stickster, indeed, we'll be happy to provide any help requested. Apr 01 20:52:37 rudi: hot diggity! Apr 01 20:53:00 It's a real need in my experience, IFF. we want to respond to translation updates quickly and uniformly from web to RPM. Apr 01 20:53:20 (user guide + install guide + release notes + security guide + selinux guide) * 10 $lang_average == about what we can expect Apr 01 20:53:35 stickster: okay then. your only option is lang separated packages. Apr 01 20:53:43 so not 2000, more like 50+ and not all at once Apr 01 20:54:02 your biggest hurdle will be getting them reviewed Apr 01 20:54:05 stickster, the Q is how quickly? We have the same needs with normal packages, but we don't have langpacks. Apr 01 20:54:25 glezos: For much the same reasons Apr 01 20:54:32 Look, Docs is blazing a trail! Apr 01 20:54:32 we need a few sponsors in Apr 01 20:54:33 wooo Apr 01 20:54:34 Docs Apr 01 20:54:53 * quaid looks at ke4qqq Apr 01 20:55:02 you don't have to be a sponsor to do a review. Apr 01 20:55:05 just sponsored. Apr 01 20:55:12 ok Apr 01 20:55:23 and if you're low on that front, let me know Apr 01 20:55:25 I don't want the review process in our way. Apr 01 20:55:31 i can almost certainly sponsor some folks Apr 01 20:55:37 I'm sponsored Apr 01 20:55:41 * quaid will sign up Apr 01 20:55:45 I maintain some packages already Apr 01 20:55:53 * Sparks would like to be Apr 01 20:56:07 What would be *most* helpful is for someoneNotMe() to write the template review. Apr 01 20:56:10 Sparks: let's do it, like buddy parachuting! Apr 01 20:56:16 * izaac (n=izaac at fedora/izaac) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:56:25 If we could manage it all in house, that could alleviate some of the problems that we are facing, imo Apr 01 20:56:26 If the template's there, I can commit to a mess o' reviews. Apr 01 20:56:52 * Sparks votes to give all packages to stickster for review Apr 01 20:57:00 quaid: Yeah! Apr 01 20:57:07 * spot hates to run, but is there anything else you need from me? :) Apr 01 20:57:22 spot: What does it take to knight us? Apr 01 20:57:53 Sparks: if by that you mean "sponsor", i just need to see that you possess basic RPM competancy and an understanding of the Fedora Packaging Guidelines Apr 01 20:58:01 usually, i do that with a new package review Apr 01 20:58:20 * Sparks has had his package in review since DECEMBER! Apr 01 20:58:30 Sparks: email me the bz Apr 01 20:58:34 i will look at it tomorrow Apr 01 20:58:49 spot: I will but you'll hate it. Apr 01 20:58:50 :) Apr 01 20:58:57 Okay, anything else for spot? Apr 01 20:58:58 is it mono? java? Apr 01 20:59:03 Don't takt Sparks away from the Networking RNs Apr 01 20:59:06 fortran77? Apr 01 20:59:09 spot: Security-Guide Apr 01 20:59:17 Sparks: I think you have what you need if FESCo ratifies to get it approved, right? Apr 01 20:59:26 quaid: Kinda... Apr 01 20:59:37 he's already on the Cc: on that bug iirc Apr 01 20:59:41 Ok Apr 01 20:59:51 Thanks spot! Go have some supper. Apr 01 20:59:57 thanks guys, good luck. Apr 01 20:59:59 so update the bug with the ratified guidelines as a tickler :) Apr 01 21:00:01 thx Sparks Apr 01 21:00:04 spot I mean! Apr 01 21:00:10 * spot puts on his crash helmet and dives into a foxhole Apr 01 21:00:19 spot: Yeah, that's probably needed. Apr 01 21:00:25 Okay, so anything else on the topic? Apr 01 21:00:41 Docs_team++ Apr 01 21:00:51 Okay... next up is... Apr 01 21:00:54 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSC) Charter Apr 01 21:01:02 Wow, is this thing old... Apr 01 21:01:19 stable - better word Apr 01 21:01:20 * leitz (n=leitz at adsl-21-134-243.clt.bellsouth.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 21:01:26 * lfoppiano has quit ("Ex-Chat") Apr 01 21:01:53 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_charter Apr 01 21:02:00 jjmcd: Ha! Apr 01 21:02:07 Oh, it's stable... and buggy Apr 01 21:02:37 So I'm not going to get into it tonight but take a peek at it, add your comments to the Talk page, and we'll come back to it next week. Apr 01 21:02:58 Questions? Comments? Crude remarks? Apr 01 21:03:14 mmm, tasty cruft Apr 01 21:03:36 Okay... next up is... Apr 01 21:03:38 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - CMS Update <-- ke4qqq Apr 01 21:03:47 ke4qqq: What do you have for us tonight? Apr 01 21:04:31 ke4qqq: ??? Apr 01 21:05:01 Okay, he might not be here tonight. I know the core has been packaged and he was working on getting modules packaged. Apr 01 21:05:16 If anyone has some spare time I'm sure he could use you to work on packaging. Apr 01 21:05:32 Questions? Comments? Apr 01 21:05:46 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - DocsProject wiki pages changes Apr 01 21:06:09 Okay, so I archived some pages today that were dealing with FDSCo stuff from years past. Apr 01 21:06:33 You're erasing our history??? Apr 01 21:06:37 laubersm: What tasks are pending for the wiki? Apr 01 21:06:39 * danielsmw gasps Apr 01 21:06:46 jjmcd: Archiving is NOT the same as erasing. Apr 01 21:06:50 gees Apr 01 21:07:04 * Sparks wishes he could archive jjmcd... :) Apr 01 21:07:10 * danielsmw gasps again Apr 01 21:07:21 That guy is nothing but trouble Apr 01 21:07:40 Have we stayed up past everyone's bed time? Apr 01 21:07:48 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Open Discussion Apr 01 21:07:51 I saw laubersm come in Apr 01 21:08:00 Okay... It's late... does anyone have anything they want to talk about? Apr 01 21:08:01 * glezos still sees his name on an FDSCo page and wondering why the hell it's there since there are so many awesome guys working on Docs today. Apr 01 21:08:02 Oh, I have something to say Apr 01 21:08:15 It's better to burn out than to fade away! Apr 01 21:08:15 * laubersm is on pda = slow typing Apr 01 21:08:21 A while ago I made a compat package to make mw-render work again Apr 01 21:08:26 laubersm: yikes Apr 01 21:08:34 but i'm not getting sponsored because i basically do no other packaging Apr 01 21:08:36 glezos: cruft abounds in the house of the carpenter Apr 01 21:08:40 anyone else want to take it and submit? Apr 01 21:08:57 quaid, what can we do to change it? Apr 01 21:09:05 * inode0 (n=inode0 at fedora/inode0) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 21:09:08 glezos: volunteer to help clean up wiki pages :) Apr 01 21:09:14 danielsmw: That sucks... Okay, so do you have a bz ticket #? Apr 01 21:09:23 oh -- it's just wiki pages then. Apr 01 21:09:24 danielsmw: I think you should get to be the packager Apr 01 21:09:25 Sparks: yeah, hold on Apr 01 21:09:32 quaid: a good idea as well Apr 01 21:09:39 glezos: well, maybe f-docs-l admin or something, stuff that's decentralized Apr 01 21:09:51 Sparks: 491946 Apr 01 21:10:06 .bug 491946 Apr 01 21:10:08 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=491946 medium, low, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy Apr 01 21:10:10 Sparks: Bug 491946 Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=491946 Apr 01 21:10:11 Bug 491946: medium, low, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy Apr 01 21:11:04 stickster: you said you could review packages? Apr 01 21:11:14 :) Apr 01 21:11:43 how about abadger1999 or spot Apr 01 21:11:49 Yeah, spot! Apr 01 21:12:19 danielsmw: It took my package a while to get noticed. I think mhideo went and poked one of his Brisbane guys to do it. Apr 01 21:12:20 k. I'll take it. Apr 01 21:12:33 Now that's service right there. Apr 01 21:12:42 yeah, we can do better reviewing within this team Apr 01 21:12:43 Are we sure that the package can't be ported to the current version of odfpy? Apr 01 21:12:43 lol Apr 01 21:12:51 and call in favors once it's ready to get sponsorship Apr 01 21:13:15 quaid: +1 Apr 01 21:14:01 laubersm: Did you have anything for us tonight? Apr 01 21:14:10 no Apr 01 21:14:28 laubersm: Want to help with research/conversion? Apr 01 21:14:30 laubersm: Okay, wanted to give you a chance to get in there with all the background noise going on. Apr 01 21:15:11 jjmcd: I'm going to try really, really hard to appear at the right time and do whatever needs doing at that point. Apr 01 21:15:30 is there an active [[Release notes tasks]] list? Apr 01 21:15:49 I have an ODS, I should make it a wikipage I guess Apr 01 21:16:04 But I see things disappearing from the list as we speak Apr 01 21:16:04 yes plz Apr 01 21:16:13 ah, your list Apr 01 21:16:35 we just need on of the usual status with tracker and who has what "write, edit, convert to xml" columns Apr 01 21:16:39 yes, what I fpasted is basically the short version Apr 01 21:16:50 * laubersm is teaching this on the road... will check list tomorrow Apr 01 21:17:24 I suspect by the end of the Brisbane workday the list may look different Apr 01 21:17:34 rn due thur? time in edt? Apr 01 21:17:58 Need pots by 2359 and we need some time to prepare the pots Apr 01 21:18:06 2359Z that is Apr 01 21:18:17 * warren has quit ("Leaving") Apr 01 21:18:18 so 19L59 EDT Apr 01 21:18:33 * laubersm has time fri but that doesnt help Apr 01 21:19:04 No, Friday we will be sorting the spec file and how to tear the big POs apart Apr 01 21:19:04 * zwu has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 01 21:19:15 I didn't see any more pushback or request for more time Apr 01 21:19:31 but we'll likely see new content for the final notes Apr 01 21:19:42 that might have been in this time, possibly maybe Apr 01 21:19:47 quaid: We can make 2359, but the more hands the better the quality Apr 01 21:19:56 righto Apr 01 21:20:13 Quick question - I feel like I'm missing the point of something here; why are the individual po files still a problem for L10N? Apr 01 21:20:33 * Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving") Apr 01 21:20:40 Transifex only can deal with one Apr 01 21:21:18 Kinda like Publican, and easy fix but ...... Apr 01 21:21:59 But I've seen translators committing translations of the Publican Common Content sections; with more than one po file in the directories in question Apr 01 21:22:11 via Tx? Apr 01 21:22:16 Yep Apr 01 21:22:38 well, even after Paul and Dimitris explained it today, I still had gaps in my brain about it. Apr 01 21:23:10 Let me verify what I believe I've seen; but we can talk about that after the meeting anyway Apr 01 21:23:17 I got that the web interface doesn't have a way to display (for download, upload, statistics) the individual PO/POT files Apr 01 21:23:20 k Apr 01 21:23:47 Anything else? Apr 01 21:24:18 5 Apr 01 21:24:22 4 Apr 01 21:24:24 3 Apr 01 21:24:27 2 Apr 01 21:24:30 1 Apr 01 21:24:34 Thanks everyone for coming! Apr 01 21:24:34 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Apr 2 01:56:09 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:56:09 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2009-03-26 IRC log Message-ID: <1238637369.27669.23.camel@thunder> Mar 25 20:00:00 Roll Call! Mar 25 20:00:00 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings Mar 25 20:00:08 * Sparks is here Mar 25 20:00:38 * jjmcd yo Mar 25 20:00:58 * n9986_ (n=nandeep at 59.176.80.223) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 20:02:10 Where is everyone? Mar 25 20:02:42 * glezos is here Mar 25 20:03:14 afk, but pingable Mar 25 20:03:17 * laubersm is here **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Mar 25 20:07:20 2009 Mar 25 20:07:20 * Now talking on #fedora-meeting Mar 25 20:07:20 * Topic for #fedora-meeting is: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings Mar 25 20:07:20 * Topic for #fedora-meeting set by Sparks at Wed Mar 25 19:59:50 2009 Mar 25 20:07:22 which one?? I only see beta release notes Mar 25 20:07:27 and f10 admin something Mar 25 20:07:34 Sorry about that, my computer went stupid. Mar 25 20:08:37 Let's start over again... :) Mar 25 20:08:42 Roll call! Mar 25 20:08:45 * Sparks is here (I think) Mar 25 20:08:46 * ke4qqq is here Mar 25 20:09:05 * jjmcd qrv Mar 25 20:09:10 * laubersm is here Mar 25 20:09:25 * stickster_afk is now known as stickster Mar 25 20:09:47 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Beta Announcement Mar 25 20:10:12 * ianweller rolls in Mar 25 20:10:23 Okay, there was a fairly good discussion on f-docs-l about how to author the Beta Announcement... Mar 25 20:10:27 and what should be in it... Mar 25 20:10:36 and how much detail to put into it... Mar 25 20:10:38 * mdomsch (n=mdomsch at cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 20:10:46 and who are target audience is. Mar 25 20:10:57 * ryanlerch (n=rlerch at nat/redhat/x-9e2fb1f14674b40d) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 20:11:11 Let's see if we can get those questions answered. Mar 25 20:11:17 * stickster shows up late -- sorry Mar 25 20:11:39 Does anyone have any concerns about how the Beta Announcement looks right now in Gobby (or on the wiki)? Mar 25 20:12:24 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Beta_Announcement Mar 25 20:12:38 last week we talked about three groups of no more than five bullets I see we have added some, I don't have a problem with that but are we all agreeing that more bullets is ok? Mar 25 20:12:47 I like it - though with the way the other discussions are going I wonder about making the link to the Beta Release Notes more prominent Mar 25 20:12:49 * ianweller takes a peek Mar 25 20:13:07 The audience for the announcement falls into a couple groups Mar 25 20:13:17 1. community members and users, i.e. most likely testers Mar 25 20:13:31 2. journalists and web aggies Mar 25 20:13:56 * Sparks notes stickster has made a change in Gobby... Mar 25 20:14:26 * stickster changed the kimono thing, which always sounded silly-naughty as opposed to the more neutral car talk version Mar 25 20:14:49 Kinda borrowed that from Icom's IC7800 announcement Mar 25 20:14:54 jjmcd: I don't like being held to an arbitrary standard (three groups of five bullets). Mar 25 20:15:07 jjmcd: If we have more to say or less to say then we should just say what we need to say. Mar 25 20:15:20 the gcc line doesn't make sense to me. Mar 25 20:15:30 Yeah, well, that wasn't my recommendation, but I didn't want others to think it was too gangly Mar 25 20:15:58 ke4qqq: good catch Mar 25 20:16:20 there is at least a period missing Mar 25 20:16:40 Well, that needs more prominence. C++ code is affected by the change Mar 25 20:16:58 Some existing code will break Mar 25 20:17:10 I just sent a bunch of stuff to the wrong channel... I'm such a dweeb. Mar 25 20:17:22 * stickster transcribes Mar 25 20:17:23 One other thing that I am still on the fence about is the call-out of the Linux Format cover blurb. Mar 25 20:17:30 The whole blurb, for those who haven't seen it, was "Fedora 10 kicks Ubuntu's ass." Mar 25 20:17:35 Whether or not you tend to agree, I think calling that particular blurb out is skirting a troubled line. Mar 25 20:17:40 We don't need to make someone else look worse for us to look good, I think. Mar 25 20:17:42 We took out Ubuntu Mar 25 20:17:42 so utilizes doesn't carry the notion that it's been upgraded. Mar 25 20:17:50 replaced it with ... Mar 25 20:18:01 stickster: +1 we don't care about Ubuntu Mar 25 20:18:12 jjmcd: I realize that, but it's not going to be hard for people to trace the quote and then take that as us having a chip on our shoulder. Mar 25 20:18:15 and certainly don't want to call attentiont to them in our own release announcement. Mar 25 20:18:32 Ahhh, yeah, prolly right. Mar 25 20:18:41 From a marketing perspective, that's a total party foul. Mar 25 20:19:10 would anyone bother? Mar 25 20:19:22 yep Mar 25 20:19:24 * stickster doesn't want to test those waters. Mar 25 20:19:28 should we be using https for wiki urls? Mar 25 20:19:34 Yeah, I see that Mar 25 20:19:37 ianweller: I thought not? Mar 25 20:19:43 ianweller I thought I caught those Mar 25 20:19:48 or you mean to get the 'latest' without caching Mar 25 20:20:05 well it bothers people who are logged in but i guess if we're caching, then don't Mar 25 20:20:07 Do people without a login get an annoying credentials input box if they use https://? Mar 25 20:20:22 no Mar 25 20:20:26 No, I don't thnk so Mar 25 20:20:30 they just have to do the entire session thing Mar 25 20:20:33 with ssl Mar 25 20:20:39 and that's bad? Mar 25 20:20:39 which is more expensive for our infrastructure Mar 25 20:20:40 Oh, that's no fun then. Mar 25 20:20:44 computationally Mar 25 20:20:48 and we don't get the ncaching benefit Mar 25 20:20:56 right Mar 25 20:21:03 Yeah, use http:// unless it's going to an audience you know is entirely (or almost entirely) credentialed Mar 25 20:21:09 that too Mar 25 20:21:11 +1 Mar 25 20:22:16 One other issue that was raised by someone in Marketing -- apparently "Is a better OS than Fedora 10 even possible?" comes off as a very offensive statement in at least one other language Mar 25 20:22:20 I just pulled the kicks ass sentence out. flame me if you wish Mar 25 20:22:51 stickster: huh, really? Mar 25 20:22:59 stickster: Really? I wonder what it translates to. Mar 25 20:23:11 stickster: I gotta admit if we aren't transliterating what is the evil inference? Mar 25 20:23:20 s/admit/ask Mar 25 20:23:25 I think it's an idiomatic or cultural thing, as opposed to "when you translate this, it says 'I would like to date your teenage daughter.'" Mar 25 20:23:51 What if we restated that in some way? Mar 25 20:24:19 How about - While a better OS is hard to imagine - Fp.o has made the beta of Fedora 11 for you to realize how good it is now Mar 25 20:24:19 Can you get any better than Fedora 10? Mar 25 20:24:21 Like, "Users, sysadmins, and press agree -- Fedora 10 outdid itself in terms of " Mar 25 20:24:23 or something along those lines Mar 25 20:24:26 Sparks: We'd better hope so Mar 25 20:24:32 Oh, that was a suggestion, oops :-D Mar 25 20:24:38 stickster: Gees Mar 25 20:25:31 * radsy (n=scott at 124-171-172-73.dyn.iinet.net.au) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 20:25:40 Ummm... Do we even have "JUICY QUOTE 1"? Mar 25 20:25:57 Sparks: we at least have Fedora 10 kicks ubuntus ass Mar 25 20:25:59 +1 to reference the agreed sources that Fedora 10 rox'd Mar 25 20:26:03 Sparks: Shouldn't be hard to find Mar 25 20:26:08 We got great press coverage. Mar 25 20:26:11 ke4qqq: :-D Mar 25 20:26:18 :) Mar 25 20:26:18 arg - give him a minute - he'll find one. :) Mar 25 20:26:32 laubersm: nice type on top of the page... :) Mar 25 20:27:04 did I get it all back out correctly? Mar 25 20:27:15 * mdomsch has quit ("Leaving") Mar 25 20:27:22 * laubersm has too many things and windows going on Mar 25 20:27:23 * Pikachu_2014 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) Mar 25 20:27:40 I'm looking up some press now, sorry, FF is slow Mar 25 20:27:46 laubersm: yeah... Mar 25 20:27:51 by which I mean "Not instantaneously mind melding." Mar 25 20:28:11 cause of course you are using minefield in rawhide :) Mar 25 20:28:21 Is the bugzilla link supposed to be https://? Mar 25 20:28:28 Sparks: yes Mar 25 20:28:36 ianweller: TU Mar 25 20:28:37 it doesn't accept http:// connections and redirects to https anyway Mar 25 20:28:45 yeah http redirects to https Mar 25 20:29:02 laubersm: Don't like contractions? Mar 25 20:29:10 nope Mar 25 20:29:14 nope Mar 25 20:29:23 sound clunky to my southern ear Mar 25 20:29:46 mine too Mar 25 20:29:46 they also do not always translate well - even if most translators know how to deal with them Mar 25 20:30:03 true Mar 25 20:30:04 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Style_Guide_-_General_Guidelines#Contractions Mar 25 20:30:10 that too Mar 25 20:30:40 quaid: Oh we can change that... it's in the wiki... Mar 25 20:30:55 P in project is capitalized right? Mar 25 20:31:10 yes Mar 25 20:31:16 the formal project name Mar 25 20:31:19 just making sure I wasn't crazy Mar 25 20:31:46 for those curious about various comments here Mar 25 20:31:53 we are writing together via gobby Mar 25 20:32:01 ke4qqq: That top part is commented out. Should we use some of that or just open up the document with "The wait is over." Mar 25 20:32:02 ?\ Mar 25 20:32:06 why is Gnome 2.26 and kde 4.2 not on their own line Mar 25 20:32:18 ke4qqq: contraction :) Mar 25 20:32:20 ke4qqq: Because we were trying to conform Mar 25 20:32:37 ke4qqq, we condensed to a single bullet of updated desktops... Mar 25 20:32:49 combining them makes it seem like an insignificant update Mar 25 20:32:52 G then K is alpha Mar 25 20:32:53 Personally, I think they are big ticket items and could be separated if we have enough "stuff" to put behind them Mar 25 20:33:24 isn't 4.2 in F10 Mar 25 20:33:25 ? Mar 25 20:33:44 yes, but is debuting in F11 Mar 25 20:33:49 iirc Mar 25 20:34:03 I think it was in the talking points Mar 25 20:34:07 honey, she can't re-debut Mar 25 20:34:13 :) Mar 25 20:34:42 sure - just like xfs support :) Mar 25 20:34:47 Sparks, How much "stuff" do you want in the *announce* page? Mar 25 20:34:58 that is the question that keeps comin round Mar 25 20:35:06 Just enough to reel them in. Mar 25 20:35:11 Exactly - I would argue the gnome and kde updates ARE minor Mar 25 20:35:16 You don't want to say you have a car for sale Mar 25 20:35:25 You want to say you have a fast, red car for sale Mar 25 20:35:39 Hey - you ain't selling my car! Mar 25 20:35:48 jjmcd: too late Mar 25 20:36:03 so since press is one of our target demographics - I think a column listing 'importnant' stuff is important, if they have to read the details it may not get covered. Mar 25 20:36:05 can't we link them to longer info? Mar 25 20:36:16 We do Mar 25 20:36:29 We link to the beta rn's and also to the beats Mar 25 20:36:31 then lots of shortness is better than fewer longer bits Mar 25 20:36:33 anyone who is looking for it will find it with a single bullet saying that all the desktops have been updated to the latest version and Mar 25 20:36:35 Yeah to the release notes Mar 25 20:36:49 those that don't know they need it won't care that it is not separate bullets Mar 25 20:36:55 Then you have a grocery list Mar 25 20:37:01 The RN then has all the details in their own sections Mar 25 20:37:06 Sparks: with adjectives Mar 25 20:37:13 We also have a link to the feature list Mar 25 20:37:22 Fantastic new sparkling beans in a can! Mar 25 20:37:29 v . Mar 25 20:37:32 beans Mar 25 20:37:42 latest vintage sparkling beans in a can :) Mar 25 20:37:48 yikes Mar 25 20:37:52 no more beans! :) Mar 25 20:37:59 And you don't learn that you need a fancy new $1000 can opener until you get to the beats Mar 25 20:38:10 and btw - the feature list needs some love too - there was a request to f-d-l a while back to wordsmith it and I have done some but it needs much more... Mar 25 20:38:20 The desktop statement just sounds bland to me Mar 25 20:38:38 It kind of is ... there are no really cool user features Mar 25 20:38:55 Didn't they do anything to spice up the desktop? Mar 25 20:39:09 they moved to kde 4.2 and gnome 2.26 Mar 25 20:39:18 * Pikachu_2014 (n=Pikachu_ at 81-66-20-24.rev.numericable.fr) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 20:39:21 so they just changed the number? Mar 25 20:39:29 and fixed the bugs Mar 25 20:39:44 they changed how sound works in gnome Mar 25 20:39:57 and broke it elsewhere Mar 25 20:39:58 I think there were some enablers there, too, but nothing earth shattering Mar 25 20:39:58 * zwu|gone is now known as zwu Mar 25 20:40:11 20 second startup? Mar 25 20:40:12 * laubersm is kidding Mar 25 20:40:33 Auto Bug Reporting Tool? Mar 25 20:40:36 Gnome 2.26 has been updated to include new sound controls, a faster startup, and an ATM that will funnel money directly into your pocket Mar 25 20:41:10 tbird3 Mar 25 20:41:39 delta rpms? preso Mar 25 20:41:42 presto Mar 25 20:41:44 * joat (n=joat at ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #Fedora-Meeting Mar 25 20:41:55 ohhhh the big one Mar 25 20:41:57 ke4qqq, are you suggesting we replace some of the existing bullets with these other choices? Mar 25 20:41:58 OPENCHANGE Mar 25 20:42:10 I am answering Sparks question Mar 25 20:42:18 * laubersm looks back.... Mar 25 20:42:27 ke4qqq: What was my question?!? Mar 25 20:42:34 Oh Mar 25 20:42:36 Bah Mar 25 20:42:40 ahh Mar 25 20:42:41 20:38 < Sparks> Didn't they do anything to spice up the desktop? Mar 25 20:42:50 but we HAVE to cover openchange Mar 25 20:42:53 that's HUGE Mar 25 20:43:05 first distro to have it Mar 25 20:43:05 ke4qqq, but those are not parts of the desktop envirment themselves... they are separate apps Mar 25 20:43:05 We don't need to cover every single change in the Beta announcement Mar 25 20:43:07 Openchange? Mar 25 20:43:20 native mapi library for linux Mar 25 20:43:32 corporate drones like me rejoice Mar 25 20:43:35 wow!!! Mar 25 20:43:36 :) Mar 25 20:43:38 what's that mean? Mar 25 20:43:53 native exchange access for evolution and kdepim Mar 25 20:44:05 ick Mar 25 20:44:10 Are we really going to say "Microsoft" in our announcement? Mar 25 20:44:13 Not nearly as HUGE as qtel Mar 25 20:44:17 That's just bad juju right there Mar 25 20:44:21 but I can see why corp drones rejoice Mar 25 20:44:46 * Nirmal has quit ("Leaving") Mar 25 20:44:47 * EvilBob has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 25 20:44:57 perhaps my perspective is skewed on that point Mar 25 20:45:05 I'll defer to the wisdom of others Mar 25 20:45:11 Sparks: it's a trademark Mar 25 20:45:21 though I think it's huge. Mar 25 20:45:25 jjmcd: what's qtel? Mar 25 20:45:36 it's just habit to use trademarks of other people correctly, it's respectful Mar 25 20:45:36 echolink client - huge to a different audience Mar 25 20:45:46 we are already saying Microsoft - with the cross compiler. Mar 25 20:45:47 We can get away with just the first one, though, which is also standard Mar 25 20:45:55 Sparks: also, I don't like to concede the generic word 'windows' to MSFT Mar 25 20:46:03 Yeah... but it points out that there are other OSs to deal with. We shouldn't be point out anyone else's OS... IMO Mar 25 20:46:13 quaid: The problem is, now it reads like it's a Microsoft product we're including. Mar 25 20:46:13 stickster: not really iirc aiui Mar 25 20:46:24 ok then reword it Mar 25 20:46:32 stickster: yeah Mar 25 20:46:35 how about Mar 25 20:46:45 dammit, that's not right either Mar 25 20:46:58 There you go Mar 25 20:47:02 not MS Mar 25 20:47:04 Cross compiler for that "OtherOS" Mar 25 20:47:16 heh Mar 25 20:47:17 ") Mar 25 20:47:19 :) Mar 25 20:47:42 "Windows from that evil empire in Washington"? Mar 25 20:47:55 * G_work_ is now known as G_work Mar 25 20:48:23 * laubersm seems to remember that same issue/discussion when that item reached feature review as well.... Mar 25 20:48:37 * ke4qqq notes we are 47 minutes into the meeting. Mar 25 20:48:40 * EvilBob (n=EvilBob at fedora/bobjensen) has joined #Fedora-Meeting Mar 25 20:49:01 who summoned EvilBob ?!?! Mar 25 20:49:13 But we have made huge improvements in the announcement Mar 25 20:49:14 ke4qqq: We are going over tonight Mar 25 20:49:18 ok, working meeting is tough Mar 25 20:49:28 Sparks: do you want to cover anything else within the hour Mar 25 20:49:30 I am not objecting - just keeping us mindful Mar 25 20:49:35 Is there not Publican stuff on the agenda? Mar 25 20:49:36 of the time Mar 25 20:49:37 just in case ppl have to go? Mar 25 20:49:47 Yeah, does anyone need to bail at the top of the hour? Mar 25 20:49:50 we could take apause on the announcement Mar 25 20:50:00 Sparks: Unfortch, I do Mar 25 20:50:00 I just read it top to bottom and did a few edits, it's quite there Mar 25 20:50:03 bah Mar 25 20:50:06 Okay... Mar 25 20:50:14 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Publican Discussion Mar 25 20:50:25 We'll jump back on the announcement in a few... Mar 25 20:50:36 So there is a problem. Mar 25 20:50:51 multiples, actually Mar 25 20:50:55 We've been trying to shoehorn Publican into Fedora for the past three releases... Mar 25 20:51:16 and I know that I've gone rounds with Publican trying to get it to meet my needs... Mar 25 20:51:18 Er, two, right? Mar 25 20:51:21 with some success. Mar 25 20:51:24 Anyway, it's been a while coming. Mar 25 20:51:38 I'm going to count three problems... Mar 25 20:51:58 1) The naming schema does not match Fedora naming schema. Mar 25 20:52:21 2) The Translators don't get statistics from Publican packages. Mar 25 20:52:37 3) Support is lacking for changes that need to be made for Fedora. Mar 25 20:52:47 ? Mar 25 20:52:49 on #2, stats are available via CLI tools only, which breaks team workflow Mar 25 20:52:56 quaid: Thanks Mar 25 20:53:02 on #1, this is packaging naming in specific Mar 25 20:53:08 right Mar 25 20:53:09 It also looks as if the structure of the various langs produced by Publican is different and something else we may need to deal with Mar 25 20:53:16 ke4qqq: go ahead Mar 25 20:53:24 jjmcd: good point Mar 25 20:53:31 previous tools put all langs in one package Mar 25 20:53:35 Another note on #2, Spot and I have been working on some folks internally to break loose some hours to pitch in code that lets Tx handle Publican. Mar 25 20:53:37 publican produces 1 package per lang Mar 25 20:53:49 meaning we have x*y new packages Mar 25 20:54:05 and each has to be evaluated Mar 25 20:54:14 1 SRPM per lang? Mar 25 20:54:14 can you explain #3 - should I be taking that as upstream doesn't want to help us, or that they are abandoning? Mar 25 20:54:33 stickster: what has your success level been? Mar 25 20:54:36 But if we need to hack the rpm, we *MAY* be able to fix that anyway Mar 25 20:54:43 ke4qqq: Hang on, let's resolve these questions first Mar 25 20:54:46 ok Mar 25 20:54:47 ke4qqq: features requested have primarily been met with an answer that they are not pertinent to the Publican audience. Mar 25 20:54:53 quaid: Is that 1 SRPM per lang? Mar 25 20:54:56 ke4qqq: I have moderate success with getting things fixed upstream but I've also been told that fixes for "silly" Fedora problems won't be fixed. Mar 25 20:55:02 which is a problem Mar 25 20:55:04 stickster: yes Mar 25 20:55:10 ke4qqq: and either cannot be done as it is written or there are no resources to fix but a patch is welcome.\ Mar 25 20:55:11 Oh. Ew. Mar 25 20:55:36 yeah, forgot about that one Mar 25 20:55:52 yeah, that one has been brewing for a while Mar 25 20:55:53 wow - guess that's one way to get package count up Mar 25 20:56:02 *snort* Mar 25 20:56:10 That should be part of any spec file fix that we brew up, if we bother at all. Mar 25 20:56:13 Does anyone have any questions about #1? Mar 25 20:56:38 (I'm going to dig up an email in a sec...) Mar 25 20:56:39 does our package HAVE to be called f-r-n Mar 25 20:56:52 jjmcd: ask f13 Mar 25 20:57:12 jjmcd: The problem stems from the product number being put into the name. Mar 25 20:57:18 jjmcd: It needs to carry the word "fedora-" at the front, AIUI, since it's part of the branding that would be removed in a remix. Mar 25 20:57:42 ... what name would you prefer? Mar 25 20:58:11 It is the difference between fedora-security-guide and fedora-security-guide-10 Mar 25 20:58:20 I was wondering why not allow Publican to put the release number in the package name Mar 25 20:58:35 eeew Mar 25 20:58:39 Well, right now you can't turn it off Mar 25 20:58:42 versions should never be in the name. Mar 25 20:58:54 and the Security Guide is not tied directly to ANY specific release of Fedora Mar 25 20:59:15 Why not allow people to install the NEXT version of release notes to study before installing? Mar 25 20:59:21 * kolesovdv has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 25 20:59:27 * Tsagadai (n=ccurran at nat/redhat/x-3dbd5f30fc89cdd7) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 20:59:31 jjmcd: right, that's the use case being argued for Mar 25 20:59:33 jjmcd: That was kind of my question. It's actually a useful thing IMHO Mar 25 20:59:43 but it's a packaging committee discussion, really Mar 25 20:59:51 and someone has to care enough to take it there Mar 25 20:59:55 you can upgrade your release notes Mar 25 21:00:11 do you think that somebody would want to go back and read the old ones locally once that has been done? Mar 25 21:00:19 f13: it's for sysadmins Mar 25 21:00:25 (and why would they install the package when the newer release notes are available on the web?) Mar 25 21:00:25 to have multiple versions of one guide Mar 25 21:00:25 f13: And for writers. Mar 25 21:00:27 one per package Mar 25 21:00:27 f13: yes Mar 25 21:00:39 so do we have someone lobbying FPC for this? Mar 25 21:00:51 ke4qqq: not from Docs Mar 25 21:00:57 that I know of Mar 25 21:01:02 nor do I see consensus that is the way to go :L) Mar 25 21:01:04 I don't have a problem having the number there but I want the option to turn it off. Mar 25 21:01:17 Because I don't want it in my document. Mar 25 21:01:40 I'm not convinced it is the right answer, but I'm not convinced it isn't Mar 25 21:01:46 * kolesovdv (n=kolesovd at 82.162.141.18) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 21:02:02 seems a legit use case to me Mar 25 21:02:09 but it's freaking late to bring the case Mar 25 21:02:15 Sparks: So the problem here is that Publican doesn't predict any documentation that's not tied to a specific software release Mar 25 21:02:17 I'd be happy to fight the battle with the FPC but Publican is broken for me Mar 25 21:02:24 Yeah, whatever we do we need to work with the tools we got Mar 25 21:02:50 stickster: You cannot tell Publican to NOT use the product number. So everything HAS to be tied to a specific release. Mar 25 21:03:04 how much work would it be to add PDF to fedora-doc-utils and package the whole thing? Mar 25 21:03:23 s/add/fix/ Mar 25 21:03:25 quaid: Would you like me to paste the five options? Mar 25 21:03:32 And my leaning is to continue down the Publican path, so we are at least a baby step closer come F12 time Mar 25 21:03:54 jjmcd: We wouldn't be Mar 25 21:04:07 Okay... earlier I posted an email to the f-docs-l... Mar 25 21:04:23 I would like to try my hand at fixing this problem, but it's hours that I don't tend to have anymore :-( Mar 25 21:04:24 that had five options for moving forward because I don't tread water that well... Mar 25 21:04:31 jjmcd: someone from the wide community needs to be a Publican contributor, work on Fedora Docs needs, and maybe take over the package. Mar 25 21:04:39 1. Use Publican for a guide but munge through to an RPM that Fedora will Mar 25 21:04:39 consume; use jjmcd's script or a new .spec file Mar 25 21:04:39 2. Fork Publican and remove the variable that puts the version # in the Mar 25 21:04:39 name Mar 25 21:04:39 3. Get the Packaging Committee to amend the rules Mar 25 21:04:39 4. Use Publican for HTML + PDF and fedora-doc-utils for RPM Mar 25 21:04:39 5. Use f-doc-utils exclusively Mar 25 21:04:40 Because I *think* we could add needed support to the publican-fedora brand pacakge. Mar 25 21:04:43 *package. Mar 25 21:05:21 I don't have a problem with forking the development at this point. Mar 25 21:05:21 jjmcd: iirc jfearn has stated that he'd love to not maintain the package Mar 25 21:05:32 I like the idea of a FPC exception for F11 name with version and long term fix publican to allow no version number Mar 25 21:05:37 I don't think a fork is required, we could put needed support in the Makefile.fedora Mar 25 21:05:41 jjmcd: without that level of commitment from some general Fedoran, I fear we'll always be second citizens in the Publican audience Mar 25 21:05:50 I am rapidly favoring the fork option. Especially if upstream considers these "silly" Mar 25 21:06:11 * stickster thinks we should not rush to using the word "fork" if people here simply aren't aware of what we can apply to the publican-fedora package. Mar 25 21:06:12 I don't think the number is the only problem Mar 25 21:06:18 Let's put that term aside for a moment. Mar 25 21:06:46 stickster: It's not in the makefile Mar 25 21:06:57 stickster: It is in the core of Publican Mar 25 21:07:20 Sparks: Well, the thing creating the specfile is an XSL sheet, yes? Mar 25 21:07:55 stickster: No idea. I don't remember where I pulled that line of code out and beat it with a hammer. Mar 25 21:08:18 stickster: But if it were that easy, why all the problems four months later? Mar 25 21:08:21 So, as a fellow Docs guy, I'm not really comfortable with people yelling "Fork! Fork!" when we don't fully grok the technical stuff Mar 25 21:08:32 Because then it seems like we really don't know why we're forking. Mar 25 21:08:39 Spoon! Spoon! Mar 25 21:08:42 heh Mar 25 21:09:01 But it does look to me, at least for F11, that option 4 is the straightest line Mar 25 21:09:29 jjmcd: The problem is that fedora-doc-utils won't work with Publican formatted materials, and vice versa. Mar 25 21:09:32 They are mutually incompatible. Mar 25 21:09:56 (at least, not without some hacking, which, if we're going to do it, we might as well try to do with Publican.) Mar 25 21:10:02 er, publican-fedora Mar 25 21:10:02 But since all we need is basically a specfile, is it really that big of a deal? Mar 25 21:10:08 yeah, we need to get PDF action into fedora-doc-utils IF that is something we want to offer Mar 25 21:10:13 * FergatROn (n=Marc at c-24-126-129-136.hsd1.ga.comcast.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 21:10:39 I'll take a task of looking at Publican up through this weekend to see what we can fix. If I don't think it can be done, I should at least explain why to the list. Mar 25 21:10:45 Publican makes docs we can use, it just doesn't package them Mar 25 21:11:01 * FergatROn has quit (Client Quit) Mar 25 21:11:32 * stickster notes that if jfearn is amenable to our taking over publican-fedora, we should try and implement fixes there. But if the architecture doesn't allow it, we move on. Mar 25 21:11:42 Or at least, I will :-) Mar 25 21:11:44 jjmcd: We make docs we can use... That last step is putting them in the hands of everyone else Mar 25 21:12:02 Yes, but all that really is is packaging Mar 25 21:12:15 * stickster has to bail, late Mar 25 21:12:24 * laubersm too Mar 25 21:12:26 ciao Mar 25 21:12:34 I'll catch up on the log and see what I can do with publican-fedora over the rest of the week Mar 25 21:12:55 Okay, I think we should let stickster do some investigating and maybe he can tell us something next week. Mar 25 21:12:57 option 6 is far easier Mar 25 21:13:41 Anything else before we go back to the Beta Announcement? Mar 25 21:13:57 PDF Mar 25 21:14:02 yes? Mar 25 21:14:06 Is that something we want,and where Mar 25 21:14:07 * stickster is now known as stickster_afk Mar 25 21:14:22 yes Mar 25 21:14:24 Good question. What are we going to do with a PDF? Mar 25 21:14:29 jjmcd: we want them for all docs, on docs.fp.o Mar 25 21:14:48 Personally, I like PDFs, but since we don't have them I don't see their place Mar 25 21:14:53 alongside tarball, html one page, etc. Mar 25 21:14:56 quaid: In lieu of html? Mar 25 21:14:59 jjmcd: long requested feature Mar 25 21:14:59 OK, that would be good Mar 25 21:15:00 no Mar 25 21:15:04 alongside html Mar 25 21:15:20 ppl want to print the Installation Guide, etc. Mar 25 21:15:24 +1 Mar 25 21:15:25 yepper Mar 25 21:16:09 Okay, anything else? Mar 25 21:16:12 * laubersm is now known as laubersm_afk Mar 25 21:16:14 quaid: they might not this release :) Mar 25 21:16:43 because the IG is unhelpful? Mar 25 21:16:54 because it's up to 172 pages Mar 25 21:17:17 That hard to install, huh Mar 25 21:17:39 Okay... back to the announcement Mar 25 21:17:49 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Beta Announcement Part 2 Mar 25 21:17:58 Any other changes? Mar 25 21:18:53 * openpercept (n=openperc at unaffiliated/openpercept) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 21:19:39 I see jjmcd making a few changes Mar 25 21:19:52 * dychen_ has quit ("Ex-Chat") Mar 25 21:20:11 * dychen_ (n=dingyich at d122-105-171-109.rdl15.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 21:20:44 I still keep wondering about gcc. I feel like we should be warning ppl, but it doesn't seem right in an announcement Mar 25 21:21:02 * nman64 (n=n-man at fedora/nman64) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 21:21:33 Do we need to talk about replacing HAL? Mar 25 21:21:42 Maybe for the geeks Mar 25 21:21:50 the gcc thing still sounds weird Mar 25 21:21:53 not replacing - but perhaps what replaced it Mar 25 21:23:00 volume control model ??? Mar 25 21:23:10 indeed!!! Mar 25 21:23:14 Should that just be volume control? Mar 25 21:23:31 yeah Mar 25 21:23:31 * ke4qqq thought we were talking about going up to 11 Mar 25 21:23:49 * jjmcd is still stressing over gcc ... ... Mar 25 21:24:09 * n9986 (n=nandeep at unaffiliated/n9986) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 25 21:25:12 jjmcd: Is there anything in the RN about power management or "greeness"? Mar 25 21:25:18 ke4qqq - any better? Mar 25 21:25:36 I don't recall seeing anything Mar 25 21:25:40 * openpercept has quit ("Leaving.") Mar 25 21:25:47 worksforme Mar 25 21:25:55 q Mar 25 21:25:59 I thought there was some changes coming for powertop Mar 25 21:27:06 Nothing in the talking points Mar 25 21:27:22 Make ext4 the default files system for anaconda-driven installs (replacing ext3). User should notice generally better performance, and benefit from things such as persistent preallocation when using updated torrent clients, and so forth. Mar 25 21:27:26 and so forth? Mar 25 21:28:15 torrent clients seems too much detail Mar 25 21:28:26 how about better performance? Mar 25 21:28:29 and end it there? Mar 25 21:28:58 There is a kind of motherhood and apple pie statement in the feature list about power Mar 25 21:29:05 and so forth? Mar 25 21:29:47 do my changes to ext4 rile anyones feathers? Mar 25 21:29:54 I don't like the "and so forth" Mar 25 21:30:13 well that disappeared with some other stuff Mar 25 21:30:17 jjmcd: What is it? Mar 25 21:30:32 ke4qqq: Remove generally? Mar 25 21:30:44 ok Mar 25 21:30:47 Looking at the feature page for power management and it looks pretty good Mar 25 21:31:02 not so sure it will be easy to say in 25 wors or less Mar 25 21:31:22 ke4qqq: how's that? Mar 25 21:31:24 jjmcd: link? Mar 25 21:31:35 why add read/write - one of the cool improvements is fsck time Mar 25 21:31:44 Features/Power_Management - sorry on another box Mar 25 21:31:48 how about filesystem Mar 25 21:31:50 ? Mar 25 21:32:29 will is much stronger +1 Mar 25 21:33:00 :) Mar 25 21:33:07 am I crazy or does a not belong there? Mar 25 21:33:08 YOU WILL! Mar 25 21:33:17 where? Mar 25 21:33:22 shall we move to #fedora-docs? Mar 25 21:33:42 nm it's addressed now Mar 25 21:33:50 the a part not the moving Mar 25 21:33:51 I don't like ext4, still Mar 25 21:34:07 * n9986_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Mar 25 21:35:34 Anyone have anything else for the meeting? Mar 25 21:35:42 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Anything else? Mar 25 21:36:24 Thanks everyone for coming! Mar 25 21:36:40 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Apr 2 01:57:37 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:57:37 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2009-03-19 IRC log Message-ID: <1238637457.27669.24.camel@thunder> Mar 18 20:00:04 Mar 18 20:00:04 Roll Call! Mar 18 20:00:04 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings Mar 18 20:00:07 * Sparks is here Mar 18 20:00:12 * danielsmw is here Mar 18 20:00:12 * laubersm is here Mar 18 20:00:13 * rudi is here Mar 18 20:00:15 * ianweller Mar 18 20:00:20 * jjmcd is here Mar 18 20:00:21 * zoglesby is here Mar 18 20:00:24 .wikilink ianweller Mar 18 20:00:25 ianweller: [[User:ianweller|Ian Weller]] Mar 18 20:00:26 * radsy is here Mar 18 20:00:45 ianweller, show off Mar 18 20:00:49 :3 Mar 18 20:00:51 * joat is here Mar 18 20:00:53 .wikilink laubersm Mar 18 20:00:54 laubersm: [[User:laubersm|Susan Lauber]] Mar 18 20:01:07 * quaid is here Mar 18 20:02:03 * Sparks waits for ke4qqq and ryanlerch Mar 18 20:02:48 David sounded like he had to physically travel to be here, haven't seen Ryan yet today Mar 18 20:02:55 Well, to not waste time... Mar 18 20:02:57 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Beta Announcement Mar 18 20:03:14 First, we had the Beta conference call earlier today... Mar 18 20:03:30 * rudi peers across the office and notices that Ryan's not at his desk Mar 18 20:03:45 a lot of things were covered and whenever they release the notes I'll pass them along to group via the list. Mar 18 20:03:57 * mdomsch has quit ("Leaving") Mar 18 20:04:22 Thanks to ke4qqq for reminding me that he somehow got Docs on the list for creating the Beta Announcement Mar 18 20:04:34 oops :) Mar 18 20:04:38 BUT... Mar 18 20:05:11 A special thanks to jjmcd for grabbing the bull by the horns and really creating nice, attention grabbing announcement Mar 18 20:05:11 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Beta_Announcement Mar 18 20:05:33 Please review it and make recommendations/changes as necessary. Mar 18 20:05:58 I especially like the opening paragraph. :) Mar 18 20:06:06 ;-) Mar 18 20:06:10 BZ jjmcd Mar 18 20:06:12 yeah, we can add that as part of Docs standar op procedure each release ... we've had the final announcement duties for a while Mar 18 20:06:17 but releng has obviously wanted us to do more :) Mar 18 20:06:20 * che__ (n=che at ip-77-25-173-255.web.vodafone.de) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 18 20:06:38 Are we trying to keep it to a "one page"? How much can it grow? Mar 18 20:06:42 quaid: Yeah, and I think it is a perfect time for us to summarize the release notes... kinda Mar 18 20:06:51 * herlo is semi-here btw... Mar 18 20:06:53 laubersm: I don't want it to grow much more... Mar 18 20:06:58 * che has quit (Nick collision from services.) Mar 18 20:07:08 laubersm: if only because it is supposed to be a summary of a summary... Mar 18 20:07:12 * che__ is now known as che Mar 18 20:07:15 The features page has one liners from proposals but they have some better descriptions in each feature page... that are not much bigger Mar 18 20:07:25 laubersm: We just want to get you in the door long enough to download and install the beta. Mar 18 20:07:52 +1 for adding interesting items that will pull users/developers in Mar 18 20:08:00 * ianweller reads beta announcement Mar 18 20:08:19 I ripped off some of the text from the talking points, stressed some over whether it was too long Mar 18 20:08:20 I think it would be better to have TOO much information in there and have to edit some of it out for brevity. Mar 18 20:08:33 ok... I am not a fan of "rebase" or "etc" and I think we should be past "the goal is" thoses are all from the initial feature page summaries - many of those Mar 18 20:08:44 pages ahve better para at the end of the feature page for RN Mar 18 20:09:12 are we still on the release announcement? Mar 18 20:09:17 quaid: yes Mar 18 20:09:22 * laubersm knows how to edit and will... also promises to not get wordy :) Mar 18 20:09:34 Thanks, Susan Mar 18 20:09:39 quaid: When do they cut Beta loose? Mar 18 20:09:57 Tues I think Mar 18 20:09:58 announcement looks good Mar 18 20:10:17 ok, in terms of length, long is bad :) Mar 18 20:10:22 jjmcd: So this needs to be done no later than Sunday eve Mar 18 20:10:27 that stuff belongs in the release notes Mar 18 20:10:35 it is a bit wordy, yeah Mar 18 20:10:42 Yeah, the sked says RNs gotta be done Mon Mar 18 20:10:46 "Peek behind the kimono" whirr Mar 18 20:10:47 We want to hit the high points ONLY, IMO Mar 18 20:10:50 it's a beta announcement... suggest limiting each of the bullet sets to the best 5, with an URL to the rest Mar 18 20:11:10 i suggest limiting the total number of bullets to 10 Mar 18 20:11:10 best 5 of each that is... Mar 18 20:11:12 Good plan, the trick is figuring out which are the best 5 Mar 18 20:11:37 jjmcd: Well, if you have six or seven STRONG points, no foul in putting them all in Mar 18 20:11:46 probably depends on which demographic each set is aiming at Mar 18 20:12:03 i like the beta contest. lol. Mar 18 20:12:09 last I heard it was the 24th Mar 18 20:12:13 joat: True. Right now it is broken down into "user" and "developer" Mar 18 20:12:15 that's ripped off from 10 Mar 18 20:12:31 Yes Mar 18 20:12:52 I don't think it is a bad way to organize it but I'm not tied to it Mar 18 20:13:31 If we take out gnome, kde, anaconda and devkit we have 5 5 5, and those are pretty esoteric or limited population IMO Mar 18 20:14:02 jjmcd: Let's make sure we are satisfied with it NLT Sunday. We can talk about it more later this week. Mar 18 20:14:09 yep Mar 18 20:14:16 * quaid adds a point to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:F11_Beta_Announcement Mar 18 20:14:17 jjmcd: I don't like taking out gnome and kde... Mar 18 20:14:36 Sparks: combine gnome and kde into one bullet Mar 18 20:14:39 yes Mar 18 20:14:45 Not a bad plan Mar 18 20:14:50 and fwiw the first paragraph seems awkwardly worded but i'm not exactly sure how you would fix it Mar 18 20:14:59 are we really gaining much from new versions of either? Mar 18 20:15:07 Updates to the latest window managers gnome 2.6, kde whatever Mar 18 20:15:16 Not much visible Mar 18 20:15:23 * ryanlerch (n=rlerch at nat/redhat/x-16d64ddc8b259390) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 18 20:15:24 yes - and minimize to just updated to version X - they are only additions of upstream stuff.... Mar 18 20:15:39 * laubersm sees that jjmcd already said that :( Mar 18 20:15:56 * ryanlerch apoligises for lateness Mar 18 20:16:07 ryanlerch: You haven't missed your topic yet Mar 18 20:16:16 Okay, anything else on the release announcement? Mar 18 20:16:45 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Publican fix for Fedora? <-- jjmcd Mar 18 20:17:03 jjmcd: You were working on a script to "fix" publican srpms for Fedora. Mar 18 20:17:07 i still haven't figured that one out yet Mar 18 20:17:08 jjmcd: Where are you with this? Mar 18 20:17:15 No progress there since last week, although I am convinced that it isn't a big deal Mar 18 20:17:33 Should we just use the old tools as necessary? Mar 18 20:17:34 I figure I;m trainable -- worst case I write a spc file Mar 18 20:17:51 I don't know how applicable they are Mar 18 20:18:03 I am studying them to see what I can rip off tho Mar 18 20:18:17 quaid: We can use the "old" tool to create docs from the Docbook XMLs, correct? Mar 18 20:18:24 well Mar 18 20:18:27 yes, but it's a port back Mar 18 20:18:30 * cassmodiah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Mar 18 20:18:40 Why? Mar 18 20:18:46 hmm Mar 18 20:18:50 We can create the docs from Pubblican, the only thing we are lacking is the spec file Mar 18 20:18:55 maybe not so much, but not sure if you can have Mar 18 20:19:03 as single set of XML files that is subservient to both toolchains. Mar 18 20:19:05 * kulll_ has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 18 20:19:09 jjmcd: We aren't lacking a spec file... We are lacking proper information in the spec file Mar 18 20:19:16 yes Mar 18 20:19:17 e.g. fedora-doc-utils uses an rpm-info.xml file, etc. Mar 18 20:19:30 so what jjmcd is doing Mar 18 20:19:37 is probably saner, or equally sane. Mar 18 20:19:44 Okay Mar 18 20:19:47 either we make one set of XML files work under both, or Mar 18 20:19:59 we make it work under Publican and hand-build a .spec file for each guide. Mar 18 20:20:01 * spoleeba has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 18 20:20:04 (which are largely the same spec files, aiui) Mar 18 20:20:18 in this case, jjmcd has the f-d-u and stickster_afk's brian to pick. Mar 18 20:20:30 I figure people write spec files every day and I'm possibly trainable Mar 18 20:20:40 with a six of one, half dozen of the other, let's pick whatever moves us the most cm forward. Mar 18 20:21:02 And getting away from a long ugly toolchain is a win imo Mar 18 20:21:11 hey! Mar 18 20:21:13 it's not ugly Mar 18 20:21:16 jjmcd: I can show you a "proper" spec file Mar 18 20:21:26 it just doesn't have an upstream other than ourselves :) Mar 18 20:21:30 Well, maybe I should say to a toolchain that somebody else supports Mar 18 20:21:37 * quaid has also heard that said about Publican, fwiw :D Mar 18 20:21:50 Well, my concern is that we HAVE to get the Release Notes ready. I'd really like to get the security guide ready before F11, too. Mar 18 20:22:00 * adamw (n=AdamW at redhat/adamw) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 18 20:22:33 Ryan's work has really moved us much farther along that path than we are accustomed to being at this time Mar 18 20:22:47 * kulll (n=kulll at 203.82.91.34) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 18 20:22:47 +1 Mar 18 20:22:56 Okay, let's come back to the release notes in a bit. Mar 18 20:23:40 jjmcd: Let's work on this more this weekend. I THINK I should be around. Mar 18 20:23:48 good deal Mar 18 20:23:55 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - CMS Update <-- ke4qqq Mar 18 20:24:03 I don't think ke4qqq is around tonight... Mar 18 20:24:12 https://admin.fedoraproject.org/updates/publican-fedora-0.18-0.fc10,publican-0.44-0.fc10 worth testing Mar 18 20:24:19 however I overheard him say that Zikula is now packaged. Mar 18 20:24:31 and that he needs some help getting the modules packaged. Mar 18 20:25:20 Does anyone have anything to add? Mar 18 20:25:38 radsy: Thanks for the link. I'll try that out as it fixes one of my bugs. Mar 18 20:25:45 .whoowns zikula Mar 18 20:25:45 ianweller: No such package exists. Mar 18 20:25:50 * ianweller shrugs :P Mar 18 20:26:11 ianweller: I think it is still going through the process... b Mar 18 20:26:15 but apparently is close Mar 18 20:26:21 woo Mar 18 20:26:57 Okay... next is... Mar 18 20:26:59 * ReneP has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Mar 18 20:26:59 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - DocsProject wiki pages changes Mar 18 20:27:14 I'm going to hand the mic over to ianweller who has a few words to say. Mar 18 20:27:26 actually what i had to say was wrt the wiki itself Mar 18 20:27:28 so Mar 18 20:27:35 * ianweller has changed the topic to: Docs Project - woo wiki woo Mar 18 20:27:42 :) Mar 18 20:28:04 um i was talking with mmcgrath yesterday and we'll soon be upgrading from MW 1.13.3 to 1.14.0 Mar 18 20:28:31 if our extensions still work Mar 18 20:28:40 the release notes mention a multitude of bug fixes and some new features. it's mostly API stuff. Mar 18 20:28:43 * ReneP (i=ReneP at a190119.studnetz.uni-leipzig.de) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 18 20:29:11 i got Main Page renamed to Fedora Project Wiki Mar 18 20:29:27 and so now we only have three open tickets on fedora-wiki, which is nice. Mar 18 20:29:43 * danielsmw claps approvingly. Mar 18 20:30:01 What are those tickets? Anything big? Mar 18 20:30:05 on friday, if i don't get distracted, i'll be going through the Packaging.psv file manually Mar 18 20:30:14 Sparks: they're big and not really touchable, they're more infrastructure things Mar 18 20:30:19 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&milestone=Fedora+11&order=priority Mar 18 20:30:25 except for ticket 2 Mar 18 20:30:28 I should be around some of the day - let me know and I'll help Mar 18 20:30:40 laubersm: wonderful Mar 18 20:31:28 and as always, if anybody has a problem with the wiki, they can add a ticket at fh.o/fedora-wiki Mar 18 20:31:36 everything gets assigned to me by default so i'll see it Mar 18 20:32:06 * Sparks writes a bot to log a ticket every minute Mar 18 20:32:20 * ianweller opens a ticket at fedora-infrastructure to ban Sparks Mar 18 20:32:27 ok i'm done :) Mar 18 20:32:28 I think we need a new push for how renaming helps search - ie blog posts... I have been seeing renewed enthusiasm for wiki pages but bad name choices Mar 18 20:32:30 touche Mar 18 20:32:53 laubersm: if you can lead that effort that'd be great Mar 18 20:33:01 i feel like i'm throwing things on you massively lol. Mar 18 20:33:03 Marketing and Ambassadors have gotten on board (some) but so many more groups should move meeting pages and archive stuff! Mar 18 20:33:10 * Sparks thought there was a howto in the help about naming schemes Mar 18 20:33:17 Even that little bit would help a lot. Mar 18 20:33:22 Maybe some education or something Mar 18 20:33:28 you expect people to read the instructions? Mar 18 20:33:43 that or shock therapy Mar 18 20:34:16 ianweller: didn't you do a blog post about that recently? Mar 18 20:34:19 +1 to shock therapy. Mar 18 20:34:23 There are what - over 10 of us here tonight - that is one blog post per day for over a week about how renaming helps and where to find the docs... Mar 18 20:34:38 zoglesby: i think so Mar 18 20:34:53 recently == long enough ago to forget Mar 18 20:34:55 ;) Mar 18 20:34:58 lol Mar 18 20:35:17 Yeah ianweller what happened to wiki tip a week? Did you go on to wiki tip per year? Mar 18 20:35:26 laubersm: :) i realize that every now and then Mar 18 20:35:29 and then get horribly distracted. :( Mar 18 20:35:32 I'm not sure how much people think about titles when they add to the wiki as much as it is get the info out there Mar 18 20:35:36 and/or have nothing to write about Mar 18 20:36:29 zoglesby, the new stuff isn't my biggest concern at the moment - it is cleaning up the old stuff - getting each group to say what stays and what goes. Mar 18 20:36:36 ianweller: Is there a naming scheme on the wiki? Mar 18 20:36:37 I think that once it slides off the front page (if it was there at all), people tend to use search functions rather than indexes Mar 18 20:36:46 A new page was created recently and didn't show in the search - only it did - it was hit number about 800. Mar 18 20:37:00 * che has quit ("Verlassend") Mar 18 20:37:08 I think newer pages show up last Mar 18 20:37:19 Sparks: i really don't know what you're asking Mar 18 20:37:20 * che (n=che at redhat/che) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 18 20:37:44 we need a page that describes the "proper" way to name a wiki page Mar 18 20:37:52 guidelines... ideas... tips Mar 18 20:37:53 thought we had one Mar 18 20:37:59 somewhere in Help: or FedoraProject: Mar 18 20:38:00 jjmcd, which is an infrastructure issue (and a ticket for ianweller) :) but about half those pages were meeting of F7 or FC4 or .... Mar 18 20:38:00 that's my queston Mar 18 20:38:23 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Contents Mar 18 20:38:39 Sparks, you are looking for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_structure Mar 18 20:38:46 yes, tu Mar 18 20:39:48 I also need to get this incorporated somewhere: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Laubersm/wiki_cleanup_notes Mar 18 20:40:17 Okay, I'll put something out on the blog tonight... If we see someone create a new page that is named poorly let's contact the creator and point them to that help page Mar 18 20:41:40 How many "docs" pages do we still need to rename? Mar 18 20:41:59 I think the DocsProject/* pages are all renamed - though many still need updating in content. Mar 18 20:42:07 There are some Docs/* pages left though Mar 18 20:42:13 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project Mar 18 20:42:17 I found a few of the Docs/Beats pages the other night - had a different agenda tho so didn't rename them Mar 18 20:42:37 But I have a list Mar 18 20:42:49 I have been trying to get them into a category or sub category.... Mar 18 20:43:32 I would also like to see the Docs Project category with a few less items - ie placed into reasonable sub categories... Mar 18 20:44:33 It is a wiki - be bold - and don't wait for me :) Mar 18 20:44:41 * Nirmal has quit ("Leaving") Mar 18 20:44:48 or me :) Mar 18 20:45:10 third quarter buzzer Mar 18 20:45:33 Okay, anything else for the wiki? Mar 18 20:45:44 newp Mar 18 20:45:53 * ianweller has changed the topic to: Docs Project - not the wiki Mar 18 20:46:12 yeah - what he said Mar 18 20:46:39 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd Mar 18 20:46:47 I have a few notes Mar 18 20:46:48 ryanlerch: jjmcd: What's the word? Mar 18 20:46:53 1) Reviewed beats for Beta one page, looks pretty reasonable Mar 18 20:47:00 2) quaid assures me we need to do nothing for the one-page Mar 18 20:47:08 3) Need better update info on ext4, ke4qqq working on it Mar 18 20:47:15 4) Just got an update on EDA from Chitlesh, outstanding Mar 18 20:47:23 5) There are some places we are weak, but most we can deal with. We need the most help on the Networking beat Mar 18 20:47:32 6) Ryan moved Publican source to git, I moved a little more from wiki to Publican, looks like Ryan did too. Still work to do there but not in really bad shape. Mar 18 20:47:41 7) Wiki freeze 4/1, preview RNs due 15th, I estimate 2-3 days work between now and 15th Mar 18 20:47:50 that's the end of my notes Mar 18 20:48:23 that about sums it up for me as well... Mar 18 20:49:02 Okay... Any questions? Mar 18 20:49:33 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- ke4qqq Mar 18 20:49:42 And ke4qqq is no where to be found... Mar 18 20:49:48 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Security Guide <-- sparks Mar 18 20:49:53 Okay... Mar 18 20:50:08 actually... radsy, do you have anything for the Security Guide? Mar 18 20:50:40 there are some minor changes that were brought up from the community review Mar 18 20:50:47 that i'd like to implement Mar 18 20:50:54 FWIW, there's a test build of the Publicanized IG now massively expanded with content from its RHEL equivalent available here: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/en-US/ Mar 18 20:51:11 I was looking at that -- looks pretty good Mar 18 20:51:13 * comraderaikov (n=dsl at 96.244.48.168) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 18 20:51:15 but still not sure what's happening with packaging etc. Mar 18 20:51:31 rudi: I'm sorry, I forgot you were handling that... I'll come back to you in a second. Mar 18 20:51:37 NP Mar 18 20:51:46 radsy: Okay, I just downloaded the new versions of Publican. Mar 18 20:51:59 Are we going to translate the guides to 40 languages, too? Mar 18 20:52:12 radsy: I'm going to grab the latest from SVN and package it and put it on the ticket and also let jjmcd have a run at it Mar 18 20:52:21 ok great Mar 18 20:52:27 jjmcd: Yes please Mar 18 20:53:19 i have been moved to mdious' old selinux confined services guide, so i'm stretching it to have the time to put in much more Mar 18 20:53:28 by release Mar 18 20:53:39 cool Mar 18 20:54:06 some good feedback from the community however. Mar 18 20:54:14 that's about all for me Mar 18 20:54:17 Okay, anything else for the Sec Guide? Mar 18 20:54:46 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- rui Mar 18 20:54:49 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- rudi Mar 18 20:55:03 rudi: what have you got for us today? Mar 18 20:55:45 Well, still working on single-sourcing the Fedora and RHEL versions of the guide Mar 18 20:56:16 There's a lot of content that I've been able to scrounge from the RHEL version to expand the Fedora version Mar 18 20:56:43 (and that situation will reverse as RHEL 6 looms) Mar 18 20:56:54 The biggest visual change is lots of pretty pictures :) Mar 18 20:57:16 (Something like 40 or 50 screenshots now, in 36 languages) Mar 18 20:57:22 Wow Mar 18 20:58:00 A really exciting thing on the L10N front is that there are six languages other than English that are also essentially complete Mar 18 20:58:12 That's great! Mar 18 20:58:36 By a strange co-incidence, I'm currently working on the "Uninstalling RHEL" chapter Mar 18 20:58:48 Which dovetails nicely with the conversation on f-d-l Mar 18 20:59:05 funny how it seems to work that way. Mar 18 20:59:12 So I'll be drawing on the wiki to augment and expand that material and make it more Fedora-specific Mar 18 20:59:13 So will have be in the Installation guide? Mar 18 20:59:33 * Tsagadai (n=ccurran at nat/redhat/x-9df8e12e00bd2639) has joined #Fedora-meeting Mar 18 20:59:39 So will that be in the Installation guide? Mar 18 20:59:53 Seems like a logical place for it Mar 18 21:00:13 in some sort of weird world, yes. Mar 18 21:00:20 kinda like having to "start" to shut down Mar 18 21:00:21 :) Mar 18 21:00:29 Heh indeed :) Mar 18 21:00:32 Sounds like Windows - to stop click start Mar 18 21:00:38 yeah Mar 18 21:00:50 I should have finished preparing that sometime in the next few hours Mar 18 21:00:55 rudi - feel free to add to the wiki page too... at least a link that there is more info in Mar 18 21:01:05 thanks laubersm Mar 18 21:01:23 quaid: No one follows us at this hour, correct? Mar 18 21:01:45 But anyway, that's about it. Mar 18 21:01:51 cool Mar 18 21:01:53 Anyone have any questions or comments? Mar 18 21:01:53 * jjmcd doesn't hear anyone beating on the door Mar 18 21:01:56 I just wanted to say that a few of us ended up making an odfpy07 package which, when installed, fixes the problems we were having with mw-render. I'm going to try to get that approved as a fedora package and hopefully mw-render will be back in business. Mar 18 21:02:02 Then the UG can be converted and done. Mar 18 21:02:05 And that's all. :) Mar 18 21:02:47 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on User Guide <--danielsmw Mar 18 21:02:58 So what danielsmw said... :) Mar 18 21:03:02 No, really! That was all! Mar 18 21:03:03 Basically Mar 18 21:03:09 kirkz has been doing Mar 18 21:03:10 Anyone have any questions? Mar 18 21:03:14 an amazing about of editing. Mar 18 21:03:21 so we just need to convert to xml. Mar 18 21:03:38 excellent Mar 18 21:04:05 Okay... moving right along... Mar 18 21:04:07 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on SELinux Guide <-- mdious Mar 18 21:04:25 I don't think mdious is onboard tonight. Mar 18 21:04:32 he is not. Mar 18 21:04:34 i've been moved to this guide Mar 18 21:04:40 * danielsmw has quit ("Lost terminal") Mar 18 21:04:45 radsy: Okay, do you have anything you'd like to say? Mar 18 21:04:50 mdious left the docs team Mar 18 21:05:17 really? Mar 18 21:05:18 wha Mar 18 21:05:25 very little to report for the managing-confined-services guide, only minor changes and lots of planning Mar 18 21:05:53 he's gone to the other side of our office, the security response team Mar 18 21:06:20 wow Mar 18 21:06:33 Okay, so any questions about the SELinux guide? Mar 18 21:06:36 :( Mar 18 21:06:54 thought you all knew :\ Mar 18 21:07:24 radsy: Nope, hadn't heard that Mar 18 21:08:28 well, no questions or major updates really, still early days Mar 18 21:08:42 Okay... Mar 18 21:08:44 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Open Discussion Mar 18 21:08:46 Another thing I noticed that needs to be done at some point... is a cleanup of bugzilla (Classification: Fedora - Product: Fedora Documentation) Mar 18 21:08:47 Anyone have anything? Mar 18 21:08:50 https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classification=Fedora&product=Fedora%20Documentation&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED Mar 18 21:08:55 83 bugs? Mar 18 21:09:08 A lot look like they are auto assigned to quaid or stickster_afk Mar 18 21:09:13 laubersm: I don't think I have access to those bugs... Mar 18 21:09:23 quaid: You still here? Mar 18 21:09:26 I closed a bunch as wont fix - EOL Mar 18 21:09:37 laubersm: Cool. Mar 18 21:09:49 .fasinfo laubersm Mar 18 21:09:50 laubersm: How many are left? Mar 18 21:09:51 laubersm: User: laubersm, Name: Susan Lauber, email: susan at ties.org, Creation: 2008-09-26, IRC Nick: , Timezone: US/Eastern, Locale: en, Extension: 5115531, GPG key ID: BFA10974 Mar 18 21:09:53 laubersm: Approved Groups: cla_done fedorabugs docs sysadmin ambassadors cla_fedora sysadmin-test gitinstall-guide gitwikirename gituser-guide Mar 18 21:09:54 laubersm: Unapproved Groups: None Mar 18 21:10:05 quaid, and stickster_afk helped me get fedorabugs group in fas Mar 18 21:10:15 that let me work on some cleanup. Mar 18 21:10:18 ahhh Mar 18 21:10:19 cool Mar 18 21:10:31 I'll check on that. Mar 18 21:10:35 But I don't really have time right now to add that to my list of things to do. Mar 18 21:10:46 Anyone have anything else? Mar 18 21:11:32 5 Mar 18 21:11:33 4 Mar 18 21:11:35 3 Mar 18 21:11:36 2 Mar 18 21:11:37 1 Mar 18 21:11:46 Thanks everyone for coming! Mar 18 21:11:46 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Apr 2 01:59:57 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 01 Apr 2009 21:59:57 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2009-03-05 IRC log Message-ID: <1238637597.27669.25.camel@thunder> Mar 04 19:00:10 Mar 04 19:00:13 Roll Call! Mar 04 19:00:14 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings Mar 04 19:00:18 * laubersm is here Mar 04 19:00:19 * danielsmw is here Mar 04 19:00:21 * Sparks is here Mar 04 19:00:25 est ici Mar 04 19:01:14 * radsy here Mar 04 19:01:30 i'm awake for this one! Mar 04 19:01:48 radsy: That was one of the reasons for moving the meeting time! Mar 04 19:01:59 * Sparks gives everyone a few more minutes to trickle in Mar 04 19:02:45 * Tsagadai (n=ccurran at nat/redhat/x-6be2c7767979ce42) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 04 19:02:47 here Mar 04 19:02:56 * che__ has quit ("Verlassend") Mar 04 19:03:05 * ryanlerch (n=rlerch at nat/redhat/x-bb8748c4cdaca644) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 04 19:03:28 * ryanlerch is here Mar 04 19:03:37 sorry for being late... Mar 04 19:03:43 * rudi (n=rlandman at nat/redhat/x-b92c1d018b23f8c9) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 04 19:03:56 oh hai Mar 04 19:03:56 ryanlerch: Well don't worry about it. You only missed the first three minutes of the meeting... Mar 04 19:03:58 * ianweller is here Mar 04 19:04:05 ... where we discussed putting you in charge of everything Mar 04 19:04:09 is ke4qqq actually here Mar 04 19:04:10 lol Mar 04 19:04:13 * J5 has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 04 19:04:48 Okay, first I'd like to apologize for my absence over the past couple of weeks... Mar 04 19:04:51 * ianweller steals Sparks's gavel and hits the table with it Mar 04 19:05:15 * kulll has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 04 19:05:16 between $DAYJOB and being sick the last few days I haven't been with it. Mar 04 19:05:37 And did I mention that my primary computer did it's biannual X failure? Mar 04 19:05:44 enough about all that... on with the show. Mar 04 19:05:51 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Wiki ticket approval <-- ianweller Mar 04 19:05:59 ianweller: You needed guidance? Mar 04 19:06:09 oh yes Mar 04 19:06:14 .tiny https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&group=milestone&keywords=~FDSCo&order=priority Mar 04 19:06:16 ianweller: http://tinyurl.com/ccdbpp Mar 04 19:06:32 i'm gonna go down the list real quick Mar 04 19:06:48 ticket 2: Packaging mass page rename Mar 04 19:06:56 laubersm: what's the status on that? Mar 04 19:07:04 ready to go Mar 04 19:07:25 Did we get the bot working? Mar 04 19:07:27 k i'll see what i can do with wikibot. i may just need to work w/o nigel's patches to pywikipedia bot Mar 04 19:07:28 I don't have permission to touch those manually but abadger and spot said go for it Mar 04 19:07:40 laubersm: i don't have permission either :/ Mar 04 19:07:44 the psv has old name | new name Mar 04 19:07:46 which is oddly funny Mar 04 19:07:53 anywho moving on Mar 04 19:07:59 Docs Project mass rename Mar 04 19:08:01 laubersm: status? :) Mar 04 19:08:05 done Mar 04 19:08:23 * ianweller sets as 'fixed' Mar 04 19:08:27 * jjmcd applauds laubersm Mar 04 19:08:34 but that one did not cover all the Docs/* and Docs/Drafts pages so we still need a little work on that Mar 04 19:08:38 ticket 5: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/5 Help page when a search fails is blank Mar 04 19:08:55 laubersm: ok. we'll get to that when it comes Mar 04 19:09:00 can i ask someone to take ticket 5 and work on it? Mar 04 19:09:14 yes, you can. Mar 04 19:09:15 :) Mar 04 19:09:28 s/ask/force/ Mar 04 19:09:38 yes, you can (just not me) Mar 04 19:09:51 * ianweller points at ryanlerch Mar 04 19:10:06 i'll see if i can rope someone into that later. moving on. Mar 04 19:10:06 * joat (n=joat at ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 04 19:10:12 It is just writing the help page? Mar 04 19:10:17 yeah Mar 04 19:10:23 or stealing it from mediawiki.org cuz that is public domain Mar 04 19:10:29 whatever, really Mar 04 19:10:30 Can a draft be dragged from mediawiki and modified? Mar 04 19:10:44 yeah Mar 04 19:10:48 * quaid sticks his head in for a few minutes to watch Mar 04 19:10:50 i can talk about it afterwards Mar 04 19:10:59 moving on: ticket 6 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/6 packagemaintainers mass page rename Mar 04 19:11:04 if you have the proper access, a page can be exported from one wiki and imported into the other Mar 04 19:11:05 laubersm: status report on that? it says 'mostly done' Mar 04 19:11:14 done - close Mar 04 19:11:18 woo Mar 04 19:11:35 ok here's where i actually need opinion votes :) Mar 04 19:11:43 https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/7 "Mediawiki:Mainpage title change request" Mar 04 19:12:00 it's been requested by stickster_afk to change the name of "Main Page" to something like "Fedora Project Wiki" Mar 04 19:12:15 which would consist of moving the main page to that name and then adjusting the Mediawiki:Mainpage variable. Mar 04 19:12:19 +1 or -1 plz Mar 04 19:12:19 -1 (just because Paul suggested it) Mar 04 19:12:24 there is a reason, too Mar 04 19:12:33 when you see the front page, right now it says 'Main Page' Mar 04 19:12:33 * kulll (n=kulll at 60.54.109.23) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 04 19:12:33 Sparks: loll Mar 04 19:12:35 which is short of helpful Mar 04 19:12:45 +1 Mar 04 19:12:49 if it were named [[Fedora Project Wiki]], that would appear as the

on that page. Mar 04 19:12:53 I have no problem with the change.. +1 Mar 04 19:12:53 so, I am +1 Mar 04 19:12:59 +1 Mar 04 19:13:00 +1 Mar 04 19:13:03 +1 Mar 04 19:13:14 +! Mar 04 19:13:23 i'm calling it approved by FDSCo. Mar 04 19:13:48 last one is ticket 8, https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-wiki/ticket/8 "Watching Categories" Mar 04 19:14:02 reported by kanarip. "As per the thread on http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/fedora-wiki/2009-February/000138.html, I would like to be able to watch pages being moved from and to Categories. " Mar 04 19:14:13 that's me Mar 04 19:14:16 iirc there is an extension to do this but i can't remember it right now. Mar 04 19:14:31 is this something we want to put interest in or not Mar 04 19:14:38 So you are watching pages within a category or pages that change categories? Mar 04 19:14:50 so this would make it possible to watch Category:Foo and all that happens to pages in the Cat:Foo would be shown? or just show the entrance/exit from a Cat:? Mar 04 19:14:51 Categories that get pages added or removed Mar 04 19:15:07 ah, that works for category triggers Mar 04 19:15:12 which spins and features, for example, use. Mar 04 19:15:16 If we are relying more on categories, we should have tools to help Mar 04 19:15:21 that is, actions are spawned by a category being set or removed. Mar 04 19:15:23 * ianweller notes kanarip originally wanted this for spins Mar 04 19:15:34 you can already watch the category for changes to the page itself but it does not tell you when a new page shows up in the cat Mar 04 19:15:50 +1 or -1 plz Mar 04 19:15:53 +1 Mar 04 19:15:54 That could be useful for a number of groups who are using categories to track progress Mar 04 19:16:03 ianweller: IMO, if it is something that is easily added to the wiki that doesn't create a nightmare for admin and a Fedorian can get some use out of... +1 Mar 04 19:16:24 this is a vote for looking into it and testing the extension, fyi Mar 04 19:16:35 How stable/difficult/cranky is this add-in Mar 04 19:16:46 jjmcd: that'd be why i would need to research/test it Mar 04 19:16:55 +1 to researching Mar 04 19:16:56 +1 for research Mar 04 19:16:59 i don't wanna do that if we're not interested. Mar 04 19:17:02 i'm just querying interest Mar 04 19:17:04 +1 for R&D Mar 04 19:17:18 ok i've got +5, any more? Mar 04 19:17:36 +1, fwiw Mar 04 19:17:37 ;-) Mar 04 19:17:39 * ianweller takes Sparks's gavel and bangs it again Mar 04 19:17:40 kanarip: he Mar 04 19:17:41 heh* Mar 04 19:17:46 alright /me assigns ticket to self Mar 04 19:17:56 any questions for me? i'm done with the ticket list Mar 04 19:18:05 ianweller: I have a question Mar 04 19:18:10 shoot Mar 04 19:18:23 ianweller: You mentioned above you didn't have permission to do something. What permission do you need to do what? Mar 04 19:18:40 with the new ACL extension i don't have permission to touch the Packaging: and Legal: pages. Mar 04 19:18:52 unless i get put in the appropriate groups Mar 04 19:19:10 ianweller: but they want you to do work for them? Mar 04 19:19:17 i assume so :) Mar 04 19:19:22 i'll talk to spot about it. Mar 04 19:19:29 i'm almost certain he doesn't want to do it himself Mar 04 19:19:38 ianweller: Well, make sure they know that you need to be added to their groups, even temporarily. Mar 04 19:19:47 aye aye Mar 04 19:19:47 Sparks, it would be a one time shot of a bunch of renaming Mar 04 19:19:58 ianweller: I don't know why the wiki czar wouldn't have admin access to everything. Mar 04 19:19:59 odds are i'd put wikibot in the groups, not me Mar 04 19:20:01 unless i was doing it manually Mar 04 19:20:03 :) Mar 04 19:20:03 Sparks: i used to with HNP Mar 04 19:20:04 ;) Mar 04 19:20:09 lockdown doesn't have that coded in Mar 04 19:20:16 prolly a good idea, less code == less bugs Mar 04 19:20:20 in general Mar 04 19:20:31 true. Mar 04 19:20:36 Okay, anything else for ianweller ? Mar 04 19:20:55 * ianweller internally conts to 10 Mar 04 19:20:59 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - CMS Update <-- ke4qqq Mar 04 19:21:02 \o/ Mar 04 19:21:04 ke4qqq: You here? Mar 04 19:21:36 I got a message from someone saying something about the CMS earlier this week but I'm pretty sure I had a fever at that point. Mar 04 19:21:57 I'll try to follow up before next week so we'll have a progress report to... report. Mar 04 19:22:00 someone said he would be asleep by now Mar 04 19:22:15 jjmcd: Isn't he in South Carolina? Mar 04 19:22:24 Yes, unless he's on business Mar 04 19:22:35 David is, but I think the guy with the comment was in the uj Mar 04 19:22:37 uk Mar 04 19:22:49 Yes Mar 04 19:22:51 Okay Mar 04 19:22:52 he said to get q's to him by 2300 Mar 04 19:22:57 I talked with ... darn, i forget his name Mar 04 19:23:03 me too Mar 04 19:23:15 Okay, I'll have something before next week Mar 04 19:23:15 who is working on the autobuild; I had to install publican on the publictest server Mar 04 19:23:29 and from that I pinged ke4qqq and abadger1999 about Mar 04 19:23:39 the package dependency Mar 04 19:23:47 I'm fairly sure we want the autobuild to happen on a separate server Mar 04 19:23:57 that does not have a web facing interface. Mar 04 19:24:09 http://quaid.fedorapeople.org/Fedora-Docs/publican_rough_dependencies_list-20090301.txt Mar 04 19:24:22 pulls in qt and stuff, not great for a web server Mar 04 19:24:40 so that was my recommendation to toshio and david, to make another tier. Mar 04 19:25:53 quaid, what exactly is the issue with those packages? Mar 04 19:26:09 * ianweller is gonna be ignoring IRC for a bit, if you need me back in here call my fedora talk extension Mar 04 19:26:10 * laubersm thinks it is Simon Mar 04 19:26:23 Tsagadai: ideally a front-facing web server is paired down to a minimun package set that doesn't include X and a graphical desktop Mar 04 19:26:38 but I think there is another good reason to put the autobuild on a stand-alone box Mar 04 19:26:45 doesn't publican peg the CPU when working? Mar 04 19:26:55 we don't want that happening on the same cpu as the CMS. Mar 04 19:27:01 yes, for about 30 seconds Mar 04 19:27:41 but it's single threaded (lawl) so that really shouldn't affect a modern web server Mar 04 19:27:58 ianweller iarlyy inode0 itamarjp ivazquez ivazquez|laptop ixs Mar 04 19:28:06 * Sparks calls ianweller but only gets his voicemail Mar 04 19:29:05 I think a stand-alone box would be overkill. If the security aspects of having X11 present but off are overwhelming for the admins perhaps they should try virtualization Mar 04 19:29:30 Tsagadai: I am merely recommending an approach to Infrastructure; you are welcome to make your own recommendation. Mar 04 19:29:37 Sparks: I'm done with this item, btw Mar 04 19:29:41 X11 is like a huge albatross for a server Mar 04 19:29:44 quaid: Okay. TU Mar 04 19:30:18 Anything else for the CMS? Mar 04 19:30:25 jjmcd, but when X11 is not actually running it is no more an issue than just disk space Mar 04 19:30:55 hi? Mar 04 19:31:05 Sparks: cuz i was out of my room :P Mar 04 19:31:10 Sort of like parking a semi in your driveway to protect your miata from the wind Mar 04 19:31:30 ianweller: Wiki pages changes <- an old agenda item. Covered already? Mar 04 19:31:47 Sparks: what is 'wiki pages changes' Mar 04 19:32:04 ianweller: I don't know. It was an old item. I'm claiming it as being done. Mar 04 19:32:10 kill it Mar 04 19:32:12 Moving on... Mar 04 19:32:16 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes Mar 04 19:32:42 This is ryanlerch and jjmcd's project Mar 04 19:32:50 Any updates? Mar 04 19:32:50 http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/Release_Notes/publish/ Mar 04 19:33:08 the release notes should be in line with what is on the wiki... Mar 04 19:33:31 going to work with rudi on getting the source merged into the git tree... Mar 04 19:33:45 I am going to move my work page from Jjmcd/Drafts to DevTools which will be a big jump Mar 04 19:34:08 right nw there is a lot of raw data there, but if it's in the open maybe I can draw some help/comments Mar 04 19:34:26 Over 100 dev tools new/changed Mar 04 19:34:49 gcl is making a 4+ year jump, but the project page leaves no clue as to what is happening Mar 04 19:35:00 Jerry James agreed to do some research for me Mar 04 19:35:20 Also, Chitlesh Goorah agreed to provide some data on EDA which we overlooked in F10 RNs Mar 04 19:35:33 Annnd still more Mar 04 19:35:51 I pushed F10 update, marked it LIVE but no joy on d.fp.o Mar 04 19:36:09 Been fighting some hardware failures so havent pursued too aggressively Mar 04 19:36:23 jjmcd: That's a quaid thing... (the d.fp.o issue) Mar 04 19:36:37 * quaid looks back in Mar 04 19:36:49 Yeah, he helped me get it into git but I haven't grabbed him after it didn't show Mar 04 19:36:57 There are also lots of OPEN beats, and a lot of assigned beats that need confirmation Mar 04 19:36:59 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats Mar 04 19:37:00 errrr, cvs rather Mar 04 19:37:05 * ldimaggi_ has quit ("Leaving") Mar 04 19:37:09 * ldimaggi_ (n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 04 19:37:13 yeah, recruiting is probably the most important thing right now Mar 04 19:37:15 * dychen_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Mar 04 19:37:20 those beats don't fill themselves :) Mar 04 19:37:31 jjmcd: I could just do it, but I wanted you to be able to :( Mar 04 19:37:36 update docs.fp.o that is Mar 04 19:37:44 * dychen_ (n=dingyich at d122-105-169-44.rdl15.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 04 19:37:53 quaid: I thought i did what i needed to but no joy Mar 04 19:38:03 i was thinking of removing all the assignments that are yet to be confirmed and putting them back to OPEN, is that okay? Mar 04 19:38:11 but like i said, i still have some things to discover Mar 04 19:38:49 * iarlyy has quit ("Leaving") Mar 04 19:39:02 On recruiting, I think my posting may have done some good. I noticed a number of new volunteers to l10n a couple days later (lots of phil and indonesians read that forum) Mar 04 19:39:13 but no joy on beat writers \ Mar 04 19:39:40 we also need dev contacts... Mar 04 19:39:46 jjmcd: Can you post the link to the beats so everyone can take a look to see if there is anything they would like to step up to take? Mar 04 19:39:56 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats Mar 04 19:39:58 Good plan Mar 04 19:40:15 can we put all the beats in a category? Mar 04 19:40:54 * vonbrand has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Mar 04 19:42:06 ryanlerch we might need to add a couple of beats back in, but i'm struggling with organization Mar 04 19:42:17 which beats? Mar 04 19:42:45 i am happy to keep the orgainisation in the docbook, and treat the beats as drafts of sections... Mar 04 19:42:54 eclipse in, I took it out, and add in Haskell, we have a writer for that. Trouble is, Eclipse fits in with IDSs and Haskell scattered about Mar 04 19:43:03 That may make more sense Mar 04 19:43:10 it is easier to play with the depth of sections in docbook Mar 04 19:43:30 once i get the source into git, you can play with it also... Mar 04 19:43:32 * SgtDitt (n=SgtDitt at ip68-224-89-6.lv.lv.cox.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 04 19:43:59 s/IDSs/IDEs/ Mar 04 19:44:15 yeah, hard to sort it in the wiki Mar 04 19:45:17 hello all? soory i'm late Mar 04 19:45:18 * Gaaruto has quit ("maj et shutdown") Mar 04 19:45:30 lol, or missed it Mar 04 19:45:48 No, we're going on about release notes Mar 04 19:45:48 IMO, we should pull out the preview thing below the beats assignments, and just have the mockup as the place for people to check the current status of the release notes... Mar 04 19:46:37 Trouble is you can't make a change and then see it right away Mar 04 19:46:55 But it would make organizing easier Mar 04 19:47:12 but it will still be in the actual beat page... Mar 04 19:47:13 the preview could be moved to another page, less distracting, etc. Mar 04 19:48:00 quaid - the issue is more keeping up the structure in two places Mar 04 19:48:04 well, the preview is kinda confusing anyway, because it is such an effort to sort out the sections etc, and so much work. Mar 04 19:48:05 oic Mar 04 19:48:59 if they are all in a category then you can see all the pieces lexographically, edit the one you need, then when it gets put together it goes in order.... Mar 04 19:49:31 Category:Release Notes Drafts or Category:Documentation Beats whatever... Mar 04 19:49:49 I thought they were in their own category. Mar 04 19:50:00 Ten minutes warning, BTW. Mar 04 19:50:20 but when you move sections up or down you need to manually change ==headers== to ===headers=== and vice versa Mar 04 19:50:30 * bpepple|lt (n=bpepple|@rrcs-70-61-160-147.central.biz.rr.com) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 04 19:50:56 Oh? Mar 04 19:51:13 Yeah, oh Mar 04 19:51:14 yeah, there really isn't that much value in trying to mirror the wiki beats to the final structure. Mar 04 19:51:21 I don't think it matters to writers; they only care about their beat Mar 04 19:51:30 * warren has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 04 19:51:35 the preview then becomes superfluous to them. Mar 04 19:51:57 So yeah, probably better to just get rid of it Mar 04 19:52:10 good, will remove it later today... Mar 04 19:52:35 Some are in a cat - many are not... Mar 04 19:52:39 on a side note, i have been playing around with some scripts to generate package manifests: Mar 04 19:52:47 do you all have any more actions around recruiting beat writers? Mar 04 19:52:48 http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/package_list/html/ Mar 04 19:53:09 that is a list of all 11 000+ packages in fedora everything.... Mar 04 19:53:28 it is just something i am working on... :P Mar 04 19:53:36 ryanlerch: pretty cool Mar 04 19:53:42 Now the interesting bit is assigning them to beats Mar 04 19:53:49 * ianweller has no clue why we would ever want all the packages and their descriptions in the release notes Mar 04 19:54:01 not really release notes... Mar 04 19:54:14 * quaid has done his recruiting shout out and now returns to packing Mar 04 19:54:15 ianweller: The beat writer often needs help figuring out what it in his beat, tho Mar 04 19:54:34 they are sorted by the RPM group btw... Mar 04 19:54:47 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Release_Notes has some of the beats but not all - I'm not sure that is the best cat name for them though Mar 04 19:55:50 Indeed, a lot of those arent beats. We should have a documentation_beats cat Mar 04 19:56:46 jjmcd, go to it :) Mar 04 19:57:20 Okay, anything else for this? Mar 04 19:57:40 Also what are the Docs/Beats/* pages? many are not in any cat Mar 04 19:57:44 Are they the old names? Mar 04 19:57:45 3 min for IG, UG, SG, SELG Mar 04 19:57:54 Yes Mar 04 19:57:56 we cant go overtime? Mar 04 19:58:02 We can, I guess. Mar 04 19:58:10 now named Documentation_xxx_beat Mar 04 19:58:20 we may have to go back to docs but I can stay for overtime Mar 04 19:58:57 jjmcd, then all the DOcs/Beats/* pages can be archived? Mar 04 19:59:01 :) Mar 04 19:59:28 I believe it. I thinkl they are all just redirects ... hard to tell Mar 04 20:00:04 Not all - we can talk later and I'll point you to the ones I was wondering about Mar 04 20:00:11 * laubersm is done planting wiki cleanup ideas Mar 04 20:01:06 * jjmcd will be trying to make more headway on DevTools tomorrow, but Friday is for fixing the laptop (assuming the part arrives as promised) Mar 04 20:01:55 Okay, let's move to the "anything else" category and then move this discussion over to #f-docs. Mar 04 20:02:20 * Parafeed has quit (Remote closed the connection) Mar 04 20:02:28 I saw a note in the mailing list that the AG may getg shelved. is this due to lack of updates? Mar 04 20:02:31 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Open Discussion Mar 04 20:02:37 * danielsmw wanted to talk about the UG a bit but can do that in f-docs Mar 04 20:02:46 danielsmw: Go for it. Mar 04 20:02:47 I think lack of owner Mar 04 20:02:59 ok. Mar 04 20:03:07 I'll pick it up Mar 04 20:03:08 If yo are volunteering tho Mar 04 20:03:12 Bravo Mar 04 20:03:29 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - User Guide Mar 04 20:03:35 Okay well Mar 04 20:03:45 I wanted to bring up a question more than an update really Mar 04 20:04:01 Do we have any formal documents or guides focused toward new users besides the UG? Mar 04 20:04:14 The reason I ask Mar 04 20:04:22 I that I think it would be useful to have... Mar 04 20:04:30 I guess... a *nix-theory document Mar 04 20:04:46 The UG gives new users a practical cookbook for doing things on Fedora Mar 04 20:05:09 but it's hard to be a proficient linux user without understanding at least the philosohphy behind how certain things work. Mar 04 20:05:15 Do we have anyhting like this? Mar 04 20:05:26 s/anyhting/anything/ Mar 04 20:05:40 seems a bit beyond the scope of the docs project. Mar 04 20:05:41 I don't think there is a problem including some basic *nix usage but we shouldn't sway too far from Fedora. Mar 04 20:05:55 Sparks: Agreed, should have clarified. Mar 04 20:06:01 basic, intermediate and advance use of fedora is fitting... Mar 04 20:06:18 Wouldn't this help bridge the gulf between the UG and the stuff aimed at the pony tail and rope belt set? Mar 04 20:06:44 I mean, I don't think we need a volume on Unix Philosphy. Mar 04 20:06:44 HAHAHA... pony tail and rope belt set? Mar 04 20:07:00 lol Mar 04 20:07:19 Yeah, I mean I think it would be useful to at least introduce the CLI, maybe the process model, etc. Mar 04 20:07:28 just at a basic level with metaphors and such. Mar 04 20:07:33 danielsmw: Things like "ll does this" isn't a bad thing even though it is a common bash command Mar 04 20:07:39 so new users can at least hope to grasp more advanced commands Mar 04 20:08:00 Sparks: can you reword that? I don't see what you're saying. Mar 04 20:08:00 +1 Mar 04 20:08:04 jjmcd is showing his age with the pony tail and rope belt comment Mar 04 20:08:16 joat: Apparently Mar 04 20:08:21 LOL -- Datatrieve developers Mar 04 20:08:42 danielsmw: I think you are on the right track. Just because something isn't specific to Fedora doesn't mean it shouldn't be explained in the FUG Mar 04 20:08:53 Sparks: yeah, i figured that out before you replied, sorry. :-) Mar 04 20:09:09 Anyway, that was my thought. I blogged about it but didn't get much response. Mar 04 20:09:15 I'll discuss it in IRC again later. Mar 04 20:09:20 That's all I had. :-) Mar 04 20:09:22 Seems like there was something on the list, did you post that? Mar 04 20:09:24 Go forth and prosper... :) Mar 04 20:09:41 jjmcd: Sort of Mar 04 20:09:42 I think that it should be located in a wiki so that it can be referenced by other pages Mar 04 20:09:47 Suggestion, though. Go out and recruit some staff so we can keep it up Mar 04 20:09:57 Back then I was thinking about just adding more advanced topics in general, but I've refined that idea, I think. Mar 04 20:10:01 "to learn more about how to save and exit vi, see such-and-such" Mar 04 20:10:22 rm -f /bin/vi Mar 04 20:10:29 when talking about editing a config file Mar 04 20:10:34 jjmcd: Why would you do that?! Mar 04 20:10:46 based on a conversation in ambassadors earlier today - ssh and scp basics would be useful. Mar 04 20:10:47 solves the problem of exiting vi Mar 04 20:10:54 lol Mar 04 20:10:58 love vi/vim Mar 04 20:11:15 yeah, ssh/scp are pretty basic, but not widely understood by newbies Mar 04 20:11:36 You know what RMS said about that Mar 04 20:11:37 * jsmidt (n=jsmidt at vp126161.reshsg.uci.edu) has joined #fedora-meeting Mar 04 20:11:46 * nirik would like to butt in and note there are still some open slots for fedora classes in the classroom this weekend. ;) Docs topics would be great. Mar 04 20:12:26 * jjmcd would love to do something if he could find another dozen hours in the day Mar 04 20:12:31 * laubersm will be at basketball tourney (assuming we win Fri) Mar 04 20:13:06 * laubersm should clarify - laubersm watches and only wishes she could play Mar 04 20:13:56 Okay, anything else meeting worthy? Mar 04 20:14:39 what can we do to help laubersm's team loose? Mar 04 20:14:46 jjmcd: vaseline? Mar 04 20:14:47 lol Mar 04 20:15:06 that would be cruel Sparks Mar 04 20:15:18 okay... Mar 04 20:15:19 5 Mar 04 20:15:21 4 Mar 04 20:15:24 3 Mar 04 20:15:26 2 Mar 04 20:15:30 1 Mar 04 20:15:34 0.5 Mar 04 20:15:38 0.25 Mar 04 20:15:42 Thanks everyone for coming! Mar 04 20:15:42 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kevin.kofler at chello.at Thu Apr 2 02:44:37 2009 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 04:44:37 +0200 Subject: Wiki Freeze Tomorrow References: <6268CAE1187543EF803DFB198B8AEBE3@Aidan> Message-ID: John J. McDonough wrote: > Following the wiki freeze we still can make changes in the xml, so if > something comes up that should change the release notes, email myself or > Ryan Lerch and we will make the changes. Has the conversion already happened? If it did, can this change (additions only) please be pulled in? https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Documentation_Desktop_Beat&diff=94418&oldid=94383 Kevin Kofler From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Apr 2 12:14:15 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:44:15 +0530 Subject: Fedora 11 notes Message-ID: <49D4AC17.3020108@fedoraproject.org> Hi I am going to be editing the release notes for Fedora 11 and adding a bunch of new information. These are my notes if you want to help me in the process: --- ext3->ext4 migration via anaconda if you boot with "ext4migrate" on the cmdline. live cd doesn't support anything other than ext4 and ext3? anaconda bug report should be filed Everything has switched to sha256, including media check http://myoung.fedorapeople.org/dom0/ provides dom0 kernel for Xen setroubleshoot rewrite new virt-manager screenshots relatime FAQ - http://valhenson.livejournal.com/36519.html gcc 4.4 rpm 4.7 ext4 - extends format - faster file deletes, multi-block allocator, fragmentation resistant (delayed pre allocation - either fsync by the app or page dirty cleaner, earlier was single block at a time), removes 16 TB ceiling, 32,000 sub directory limit. preupgrade - f9 to f11 wont work? New features ------------ Make sure all the feature are documented https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2009-March/msg00099.html Rahul From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Apr 2 12:14:30 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:14:30 -0400 Subject: Work to be done today Message-ID: <9A379BA5FBD44CF4B3F24FE255A70456@Aidan> We need to get the pot files to the translators today, and there is still some work to be done. If you can possibly help this morning, please do. I have changed the right two columns of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats to reflect where we are. There are a few sections where we need some content, if you can take some time to research something with a 0 in both columns please do it. In some cases there is a 0 in the wiki column and a 1 in the Publican column. In those cases, some content was provided directly into Publican, so check both columns. In places with a * in the wiki column, there is some content, but it is very weak. If you can make it better, please do. If you make changes in something that is already in Publican, please let me know, and if possible, update Publican. At: http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/Release_Notes.pdf You will find the current state of the xml for reference. Thanks for your help --McD From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Apr 2 12:35:00 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:35:00 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 notes References: <49D4AC17.3020108@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <3DC45C54D7404B4EBCA5D7E1B53C59EA@Aidan> Thank you very much: Some notes below: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Sundaram" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 8:14 AM Subject: Fedora 11 notes > new virt-manager screenshots We generally don't do screenshots in the release notes because of the short time frame to try to get screenshots in the forty plus languages we ship the RNs. > rpm 4.7 On the wiki in Documentation_Development_Tools_Beat there are a number of RPM related changes commented out because I couldn't uncover any information on them. > Make sure all the feature are documented If you aren't working in Publican, please give me a heads-up on what you changed so I don't miss it. But if you are good with the XML, that would obviously be better at this point. Push frequently, though. Changes are happening at a ferocious pace this morning. Thanks again --McD From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 12:45:04 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:45:04 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 notes In-Reply-To: <3DC45C54D7404B4EBCA5D7E1B53C59EA@Aidan> References: <49D4AC17.3020108@fedoraproject.org> <3DC45C54D7404B4EBCA5D7E1B53C59EA@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090402124504.GI9334@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 08:35:00AM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: >> Make sure all the feature are documented > > If you aren't working in Publican, please give me a heads-up on what you > changed so I don't miss it. But if you are good with the XML, that would > obviously be better at this point. Push frequently, though. Changes are > happening at a ferocious pace this morning. Whatever happens, it's important that we keep both areas in sync (wiki and XML). Otherwise this process quickly spirals way out of control, as Karsten and I found in a previous release (was that F7 or F8? I forget). Communication is key, and Rahul should be hanging out on #fedora-docs to keep in touch as he goes. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Apr 2 12:55:34 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 18:25:34 +0530 Subject: Fedora 11 notes In-Reply-To: <3DC45C54D7404B4EBCA5D7E1B53C59EA@Aidan> References: <49D4AC17.3020108@fedoraproject.org> <3DC45C54D7404B4EBCA5D7E1B53C59EA@Aidan> Message-ID: <49D4B5C6.5050102@fedoraproject.org> John J. McDonough wrote: >> new virt-manager screenshots > > We generally don't do screenshots in the release notes because of the > short time frame to try to get screenshots in the forty plus languages > we ship the RNs. I understand that well. These are rough notes and what it means is the reference to a blog post with the new screenshots as posted in fedora-marketing list. I am mether in #fedora-docs if you wish to discuss this further. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 12:50:33 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 08:50:33 -0400 Subject: Wiki Freeze Tomorrow In-Reply-To: References: <6268CAE1187543EF803DFB198B8AEBE3@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090402125033.GK9334@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 04:44:37AM +0200, Kevin Kofler wrote: > John J. McDonough wrote: > > Following the wiki freeze we still can make changes in the xml, so if > > something comes up that should change the release notes, email myself or > > Ryan Lerch and we will make the changes. > > Has the conversion already happened? If it did, can this change (additions > only) please be pulled in? > https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Documentation_Desktop_Beat&diff=94418&oldid=94383 Thanks for the heads-up Kevin -- I just added this material to the XML, synchronizing it with your wiki changes. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 15:29:42 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 11:29:42 -0400 Subject: future f12 test days In-Reply-To: <1238684451.20406.18.camel@choeger5.umpa.netz> References: <1238684451.20406.18.camel@choeger5.umpa.netz> Message-ID: <20090402152942.GG24650@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 05:00:51PM +0200, Christoph H?ger wrote: > Hi all, > > so testdays are a really cool way of testing feature progress during an > alpha/beta cycle. I guess upstream projects really love all those corner > cases being tested. > > So as Paul stated > (http://marilyn.frields.org:8080/~paul/wordpress/?p=1577) > > The wiki is public now, which makes it possible to test features (and > post the results) for everybody not only FAS members. This is definitely > a good thing, but I guess there are a few more points to make that work: > > a) we should _always_ have USB images ready. That should lower the > testing costs to zero. > > b) we need public attention (aka PR), I already tried to get that into > some german online media and phoronix for nouveau test day, but with > little success (only prolinux.de reacted). I guess no one will make a > headline for every testday, so it would be a good idea to bring > attention to the test days (and the schedule) in the alpha release notes > (and pounce the media on those). Some ambassadors having PR experience > here? Cc'ing the fedora-docs-list to reference above. I added a placeholder note for that future page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes > c) make the test cases as automated as possible. Offer sending smolt > profile (smoltGUI) and run test cases directly from the desktop. Also We > should add a link (or the document itself) about how to test what and > why to the desktop. If it's possible for the test generated results > should also be posted automagically to the results page, or, if tests > fail, bug reports could be created by bugbuddy. Not sure if bugbuddy adds any heft to the Live images. Regardless though, I actually was talking to James Laska about this just the other day. The easier the community uptake, the more people can dive in and get involved. I've found the Live images really helped me. I don't tend to have a lot of time to devote to testing, yet I was able to successfully run some tests and generate a few bug reports for the Nouveau test day. It was a great experience and I'd like as many other people to enjoy it as possible. I'd suggest that followups on this go to fedora-test-list, since that's typically where the QA folks do the bulk of their planning and execution. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Thu Apr 2 15:52:45 2009 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 08:52:45 -0700 Subject: Fedora 11 notes In-Reply-To: <49D4AC17.3020108@fedoraproject.org> References: <49D4AC17.3020108@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1238687565.18254.5.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 17:44 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > I am going to be editing the release notes for Fedora 11 and adding a > bunch of new information. > http://myoung.fedorapeople.org/dom0/ provides dom0 kernel for Xen That's been in FWN as of late, but I'm not sure that is really stable enough to point at from the release notes. Is it? The notes do link to here for more information on the topic http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 It should be linked to from the feature page if it isn't. I'll check later today. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Apr 2 16:07:37 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 21:37:37 +0530 Subject: Fedora 11 notes In-Reply-To: <1238687565.18254.5.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> References: <49D4AC17.3020108@fedoraproject.org> <1238687565.18254.5.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <49D4E2C9.3020709@fedoraproject.org> Dale Bewley wrote: > On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 17:44 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> I am going to be editing the release notes for Fedora 11 and adding a >> bunch of new information. > >> http://myoung.fedorapeople.org/dom0/ provides dom0 kernel for Xen > > > That's been in FWN as of late, but I'm not sure that is really stable > enough to point at from the release notes. Is it? > > The notes do link to here for more information on the topic > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 > > It should be linked to from the feature page if it isn't. I'll check > later today. Notes can say it is experimental. Rahul From markmc at redhat.com Thu Apr 2 16:23:25 2009 From: markmc at redhat.com (Mark McLoughlin) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 17:23:25 +0100 Subject: Fedora 11 notes In-Reply-To: <49D4E2C9.3020709@fedoraproject.org> References: <49D4AC17.3020108@fedoraproject.org> <1238687565.18254.5.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> <49D4E2C9.3020709@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1238689405.26926.8.camel@blaa> On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 21:37 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Dale Bewley wrote: > > On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 17:44 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> I am going to be editing the release notes for Fedora 11 and adding a > >> bunch of new information. > > > >> http://myoung.fedorapeople.org/dom0/ provides dom0 kernel for Xen > > > > > > That's been in FWN as of late, but I'm not sure that is really stable > > enough to point at from the release notes. Is it? > > > > The notes do link to here for more information on the topic > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/XenPvopsDom0 > > > > It should be linked to from the feature page if it isn't. I'll check > > later today. > > Notes can say it is experimental. They are *highly* experimental. I don't think its appropriate to link to them in the release notes. What the release note could do is point out that work to get dom0 support into the upstream kernel is ongoing and hopes are high that some support will be included in 2.6.30 and F12. Cheers, Mark. From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Apr 2 17:36:17 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:36:17 -0400 Subject: Last call for F11 Release Notes Message-ID: <2ED3517240EC4FCDAE0CE6D30DE721F1@Aidan> It looks like we will be building the pot file around 3 PM Eastern (1900Z) today, so if there is something you imagine you are going to get into the release notes, you better get moving. While we can make small changes between now and the end of the month, these are essentially the release notes for GA. Please take a moment to read through the current version online - there are a few little bits to be added over the next hour or so, but it is largely complete. http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/Release_Notes.pdf Thanks for everyone's help --McD From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 17:49:28 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 13:49:28 -0400 Subject: Last call for F11 Release Notes In-Reply-To: <2ED3517240EC4FCDAE0CE6D30DE721F1@Aidan> References: <2ED3517240EC4FCDAE0CE6D30DE721F1@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090402174928.GB4399@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Apr 02, 2009 at 01:36:17PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > It looks like we will be building the pot file around 3 PM Eastern (1900Z) > today, so if there is something you imagine you are going to get into the > release notes, you better get moving. While we can make small changes > between now and the end of the month, these are essentially the release > notes for GA. You mean these are essentially the release notes for the F11 Preview Release, right? We are scheduled to do another POT build later for the GA. "GA" is the final release -- Perhaps I didn't explain that fully in the big briefing I gave on release notes. > Please take a moment to read through the current version online - there > are a few little bits to be added over the next hour or so, but it is > largely complete. > > http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/Release_Notes.pdf > > Thanks for everyone's help Awesome job pulling things together, John! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Thu Apr 2 17:54:44 2009 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 10:54:44 -0700 Subject: Last call for F11 Release Notes In-Reply-To: <2ED3517240EC4FCDAE0CE6D30DE721F1@Aidan> References: <2ED3517240EC4FCDAE0CE6D30DE721F1@Aidan> Message-ID: <1238694884.18254.8.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 13:36 -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > It looks like we will be building the pot file around 3 PM Eastern (1900Z) > today, so if there is something you imagine you are going to get into the > release notes, you better get moving. While we can make small changes I just made a small change below about dom0 hopes for F12. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Virtualization_Beat#Xen_Kernel_Support From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Apr 2 18:05:46 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 2 Apr 2009 14:05:46 -0400 Subject: Last call for F11 Release Notes References: <2ED3517240EC4FCDAE0CE6D30DE721F1@Aidan> <20090402174928.GB4399@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3A3BFF96EEB6424CB0CDD69DF2F7175F@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 1:49 PM Subject: Re: Last call for F11 Release Notes > You mean these are essentially the release notes for the F11 Preview > Release, right? We are scheduled to do another POT build later for > the GA. "GA" is the final release -- Perhaps I didn't explain that > fully in the big briefing I gave on release notes. Correct, although as I understand it, we don't want to make huge changes so the translators don't have an entirely different POT to work from. So the operative word is "essentially", maybe I should have said "mostly". --McD From jlaska at redhat.com Thu Apr 2 19:36:55 2009 From: jlaska at redhat.com (James Laska) Date: Thu, 02 Apr 2009 15:36:55 -0400 Subject: future f12 test days In-Reply-To: <20090402152942.GG24650@localhost.localdomain> References: <1238684451.20406.18.camel@choeger5.umpa.netz> <20090402152942.GG24650@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1238701015.3350.38.camel@flatline.devel.redhat.com> On Thu, 2009-04-02 at 11:29 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > c) make the test cases as automated as possible. Offer sending smolt > > profile (smoltGUI) and run test cases directly from the desktop. > Also We > > should add a link (or the document itself) about how to test what > and > > why to the desktop. If it's possible for the test generated results > > should also be posted automagically to the results page, or, if > tests > > fail, bug reports could be created by bugbuddy. > > Not sure if bugbuddy adds any heft to the Live images. Regardless > though, I actually was talking to James Laska about this just the > other day. The easier the community uptake, the more people can dive > in and get involved. > > I've found the Live images really helped me. I don't tend to have a > lot of time to devote to testing, yet I was able to successfully > run some tests and generate a few bug reports for the Nouveau test > day. It was a great experience and I'd like as many other people to > enjoy it as possible. Paul and I exchanged some good ideas here. Thanks to the livecd-tools [1] and spin-kickstarts [2] projects, the creation of Test Day live images isn't tremendously difficult. My apologies for not recalling the name, but a fellow tester posted a comment in fedora planet recently suggesting this very idea ... that the live image come with some pointers or instructions for the current test day. This is a great idea. I'd like to not have to constantly edit the kickstart file used to generate the live image. Can folks think of a good way so that with a little shell/python/$lang we can use the same kickstart file to produce a live image that has ... * the Test Day starts as the firefox homepage * Or ... the firefox home page finds the most *current* test day * Create a .desktop file when clicked, "Join Test Day IRC discussion" * I know it's a live image, but should we enable kexec/kdump to easily capture kernel panics? What do folks think? Thanks, James [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraLiveCD [2] https://fedorahosted.org/spin-kickstarts/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Thu Apr 2 22:39:38 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 03:39:38 +0500 Subject: install guide draft Message-ID: <78323d480904021539s1fed565dl6fae8e0752963212@mail.gmail.com> I had a look at some parts of http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation Guide/en-US/html "7.22.4. SMP Motherboards and GRUB In previous versions of Fedora there were two different kernel versions, a uniprocessor version and an SMP version. In Fedora 11 the kernel is SMP-enabled by default and will take advantage of multiple core, hyperthreading, and multiple CPU capabilities when they are present. This same kernel can run on single CPUs with a single core and no hyperthreading. " This is being repeated since FC-4-6? "Swap should equal 2x physical RAM for up to 2 GB of physical RAM, and then an additional 1x physical RAM for any amount above 2 GB, but never less than 32 MB. So, if: M = Amount of RAM in GB, and S = Amount of swap in GB, then If M < 2 S = M *2 Else S = M + 2" Using this formula, a system with 2 GB of physical RAM would have 4 GB of swap, while one with 3 GB of physical RAM would have 5 GB of swap. Creating a large swap space partition can be especially helpful if you plan to upgrade your RAM at a later time. For systems with really large amounts of RAM (more than 32 GB) you can likely get away with a smaller swap partition (around 1x, or less, of physical RAM)." The formula is not correct. Or is this the result of some special study? I think, S= min{3, 2*M} is best for most desktop users For most servers it should be around Max(5, M/5). Sys admins should determine the actual requirement for servers and scientific computing. There are some recommendations here: http://www.linux.com/feature/121916 Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu Apr 2 23:43:55 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 09:43:55 +1000 Subject: install guide draft In-Reply-To: <78323d480904021539s1fed565dl6fae8e0752963212@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480904021539s1fed565dl6fae8e0752963212@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49D54DBB.6050304@redhat.com> Mani A wrote: > I had a look at some parts of > > http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation Guide/en-US/html > Many thanks! We need eyes on this. > "7.22.4. SMP Motherboards and GRUB > In previous versions of Fedora there were two different kernel > versions, a uniprocessor version and an SMP version. In Fedora 11 the > kernel is SMP-enabled by default and will take advantage of multiple > core, hyperthreading, and multiple CPU capabilities when they are > present. This same kernel can run on single CPUs with a single core > and no hyperthreading. " > > > This is being repeated since FC-4-6? > Did the native kernel have multiprocessor support before F9? http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f9/en_US/sn-Kernel.html (whatever version it was, the text should be clarified to name it specifically) This note will become less and less relevant with each release ? at what point should we drop it though? > "Swap should equal 2x physical RAM for up to 2 GB of physical RAM, and > then an additional 1x physical RAM for any amount above 2 GB, but > never less than 32 MB. > So, if: > M = Amount of RAM in GB, and S = Amount of swap in GB, then > > If M < 2 > S = M *2 > Else > S = M + 2" > > Using this formula, a system with 2 GB of physical RAM would have 4 GB > of swap, while one with 3 GB of physical RAM would have 5 GB of swap. > Creating a large swap space partition can be especially helpful if you > plan to upgrade your RAM at a later time. > For systems with really large amounts of RAM (more than 32 GB) you can > likely get away with a smaller swap partition (around 1x, or less, of > physical RAM)." > > > The formula is not correct. Or is this the result of some special study? > The formula is the current recommendation in Red Hat Enterprise Linux (see http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/docs/DOC-15252 ) and is what anaconda will create by default when installing Red Hat Enterprise Linux or Fedora. I don't think we should change this recommendation unless anaconda's behaviour changes as well. I think the text makes it pretty clear that this recommendation is only indicative; it's prefaced "If you are unsure about what size swap partition to create..." Do you think we need to draw more attention to this being a "rule of thumb"? Cheers Rudi From jwulf at redhat.com Fri Apr 3 02:46:58 2009 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:46:58 +1000 Subject: install guide draft In-Reply-To: <49D54DBB.6050304@redhat.com> References: <78323d480904021539s1fed565dl6fae8e0752963212@mail.gmail.com> <49D54DBB.6050304@redhat.com> Message-ID: <49D578A2.50509@redhat.com> Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Mani A wrote: >> I had a look at some parts of >> >> http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation Guide/en-US/html >> > Many thanks! We need eyes on this. >> "7.22.4. SMP Motherboards and GRUB >> In previous versions of Fedora there were two different kernel >> versions, a uniprocessor version and an SMP version. In Fedora 11 the >> kernel is SMP-enabled by default and will take advantage of multiple >> core, hyperthreading, and multiple CPU capabilities when they are >> present. This same kernel can run on single CPUs with a single core >> and no hyperthreading. " >> >> >> This is being repeated since FC-4-6? >> > Did the native kernel have multiprocessor support before F9? > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f9/en_US/sn-Kernel.html > (whatever version it was, the text should be clarified to name it > specifically) > > This note will become less and less relevant with each release ? at > what point should we drop it though? >> "Swap should equal 2x physical RAM for up to 2 GB of physical RAM, and >> then an additional 1x physical RAM for any amount above 2 GB, but >> never less than 32 MB. >> So, if: >> M = Amount of RAM in GB, and S = Amount of swap in GB, then >> >> If M < 2 >> S = M *2 >> Else >> S = M + 2" >> >> Using this formula, a system with 2 GB of physical RAM would have 4 GB >> of swap, while one with 3 GB of physical RAM would have 5 GB of swap. >> Creating a large swap space partition can be especially helpful if you >> plan to upgrade your RAM at a later time. >> For systems with really large amounts of RAM (more than 32 GB) you can >> likely get away with a smaller swap partition (around 1x, or less, of >> physical RAM)." >> >> >> The formula is not correct. Or is this the result of some special study? >> > The formula is the current recommendation in Red Hat Enterprise Linux > (see http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/docs/DOC-15252 ) and is what anaconda > will create by default when installing Red Hat Enterprise Linux or > Fedora. I don't think we should change this recommendation unless > anaconda's behaviour changes as well. > > I think the text makes it pretty clear that this recommendation is > only indicative; it's prefaced "If you are unsure about what size swap > partition to create..." > > Do you think we need to draw more attention to this being a "rule of > thumb"? > > Cheers > Rudi > What idiot wrote that formula? (it was me ;-) ) Reading its preceding text and looking at the formula, I think it should have been: If M < 2 S = M *2 Else S = (M - 2) + 4 if there are less than 2GB in the machine then you should double it = M * 2 if there are more than two gigs then you need the 4GB for the first two gigs, then 1GB for each 1GB above 2GB Which part are you calling out as wrong? The formula as regards its preceding text, or the whole thing? -- Joshua J Wulf Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific eml: jwulf at redhat.com tel: +61 (0)7 3514 8140 mob: +61 (0)431 929 675 tmz: GMT +10 (0) - omit when dialling internationally From ccurran at redhat.com Fri Apr 3 03:31:32 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Fri, 03 Apr 2009 13:31:32 +1000 Subject: install guide draft In-Reply-To: <49D578A2.50509@redhat.com> References: <78323d480904021539s1fed565dl6fae8e0752963212@mail.gmail.com> <49D54DBB.6050304@redhat.com> <49D578A2.50509@redhat.com> Message-ID: <49D58314.2060507@redhat.com> Joshua Wulf wrote: > Ruediger Landmann wrote: >> Mani A wrote: >>> I had a look at some parts of >>> >>> http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation Guide/en-US/html >>> >> Many thanks! We need eyes on this. >>> "7.22.4. SMP Motherboards and GRUB >>> In previous versions of Fedora there were two different kernel >>> versions, a uniprocessor version and an SMP version. In Fedora 11 the >>> kernel is SMP-enabled by default and will take advantage of multiple >>> core, hyperthreading, and multiple CPU capabilities when they are >>> present. This same kernel can run on single CPUs with a single core >>> and no hyperthreading. " >>> >>> >>> This is being repeated since FC-4-6? >>> >> Did the native kernel have multiprocessor support before F9? >> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f9/en_US/sn-Kernel.html >> (whatever version it was, the text should be clarified to name it >> specifically) >> >> This note will become less and less relevant with each release ? at >> what point should we drop it though? >>> "Swap should equal 2x physical RAM for up to 2 GB of physical RAM, and >>> then an additional 1x physical RAM for any amount above 2 GB, but >>> never less than 32 MB. >>> So, if: >>> M = Amount of RAM in GB, and S = Amount of swap in GB, then >>> >>> If M < 2 >>> S = M *2 >>> Else >>> S = M + 2" >>> >>> Using this formula, a system with 2 GB of physical RAM would have 4 GB >>> of swap, while one with 3 GB of physical RAM would have 5 GB of swap. >>> Creating a large swap space partition can be especially helpful if you >>> plan to upgrade your RAM at a later time. >>> For systems with really large amounts of RAM (more than 32 GB) you can >>> likely get away with a smaller swap partition (around 1x, or less, of >>> physical RAM)." >>> >>> >>> The formula is not correct. Or is this the result of some special >>> study? >>> >> The formula is the current recommendation in Red Hat Enterprise Linux >> (see http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/docs/DOC-15252 ) and is what >> anaconda will create by default when installing Red Hat Enterprise >> Linux or Fedora. I don't think we should change this recommendation >> unless anaconda's behaviour changes as well. >> >> I think the text makes it pretty clear that this recommendation is >> only indicative; it's prefaced "If you are unsure about what size >> swap partition to create..." >> >> Do you think we need to draw more attention to this being a "rule of >> thumb"? >> >> Cheers >> Rudi >> > What idiot wrote that formula? (it was me ;-) ) > > Reading its preceding text and looking at the formula, I think it > should have been: > > If M < 2 > S = M *2 > Else > S = (M - 2) + 4 > > if there are less than 2GB in the machine then you should double it = > M * 2 > if there are more than two gigs then you need the 4GB for the first > two gigs, then 1GB for each 1GB above 2GB > > Which part are you calling out as wrong? The formula as regards its > preceding text, or the whole thing? > This could be used. You have approval to convert it :) http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/docs/DOC-15252 FYI, we should also mention machine's with over 8GB probably don't need more than 1GB of swap. If the machine starts swapping people should change their swappiness parameter or kill the memory hogs. -- Chris Curran Technical Writer for Virtualization and Emerging Technologies Phone: +61735148302 (UTC+10) Brisbane, Australia. Red Hat, Inc. From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Apr 3 14:55:22 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 10:55:22 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Notes Message-ID: <708FCBA3D13D4A65AE7F26642D80F82D@Aidan> I wanted to take a moment to thank all the folks who contributed to getting the release notes out. They went to the translators last night, and I see they are already hard at work. There were an awful lot of changes this release and I know it wasn't easy. With the switch to Publican, and the broken mw-render we had some additional challenges, but with everyone's help we got it done. Once again, thank you all. --McD From bansalcooldheeraj at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 17:58:34 2009 From: bansalcooldheeraj at gmail.com (dheeraj bansal) Date: Fri, 3 Apr 2009 23:28:34 +0530 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <220938700904031058q7bc98ee9r49742e068d29624a@mail.gmail.com> Hi All, I am a Software Engineer working with a MNC since last two years and now sincerely looking forward to contribute to open-source communities since I believe this is the way with which we can make technology more useful, purposeful and profitable to the humanity. I just want to continue the fellowship and contribute my part toward my moral responsibiltiy which is to make the world a better place. Thanks and Regards, Dheeraj Bansal +929827637248 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Apr 3 20:08:10 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 01:38:10 +0530 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Notes In-Reply-To: <708FCBA3D13D4A65AE7F26642D80F82D@Aidan> References: <708FCBA3D13D4A65AE7F26642D80F82D@Aidan> Message-ID: <49D66CAA.7080603@fedoraproject.org> John J. McDonough wrote: > I wanted to take a moment to thank all the folks who contributed to > getting the release notes out. They went to the translators last night, > and I see they are already hard at work. > > There were an awful lot of changes this release and I know it wasn't > easy. With the switch to Publican, and the broken mw-render we had some > additional challenges, but with everyone's help we got it done. > > Once again, thank you all. Thanks for working on this. Perhaps you can add this step into the release notes? http://www.codemonkey.org.uk/2009/04/03/annoying-font-dialogs/ If not now, then as a post - GA update. Rahul From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Fri Apr 3 23:58:14 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 05:28:14 +0530 Subject: install guide draft Message-ID: <78323d480904031658l575ceb69ne081ed29b53c2dd3@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:30 PM, wrote: Ruediger Landmann wrote: > > Mani A wrote: >> I had a look at some parts of >> >> http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation Guide/en-US/html >> > Many thanks! We need eyes on this. >> "7.22.4. SMP Motherboards and GRUB >> In previous versions of Fedora there were two different kernel >> versions, a uniprocessor version and an SMP version. In Fedora 11 the >> kernel is SMP-enabled by default and will take advantage of multiple >> core, hyperthreading, and multiple CPU capabilities when they are >> present. This same kernel can run on single CPUs with a single core >> and no hyperthreading. " >> >> >> This is being repeated since FC-4-6? >> > Did the native kernel have multiprocessor support before F9? > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f9/en_US/sn-Kernel.html > (whatever version it was, the text should be clarified to name it > specifically) http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/fc6/en_US/sn-Kernel.html#id2840748 mentions it http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/fc5/release-notes-ISO/#id3131236 says 'There is no separate SMP kernel available for the x86_64 architecture in Fedora Core 5' > This note will become less and less relevant with each release ? at what > point should we drop it though? I think it is time. Very few distros have been having different kernels for SMP and uniprocessors for 2+ years. >> "Swap should equal 2x physical RAM for up to 2 GB of physical RAM, and >> then an additional 1x physical RAM for any amount above 2 GB, but >> never less than 32 MB. >> So, if: >> M = Amount of RAM in GB, and S = Amount of swap in GB, then >> >> If M < 2 >> ? ? ? S = M *2 >> Else >> ? ? ? S = M + 2" >> >> Using this formula, a system with 2 GB of physical RAM would have 4 GB >> of swap, while one with 3 GB of physical RAM would have 5 GB of swap. >> Creating a large swap space partition can be especially helpful if you >> plan to upgrade your RAM at a later time. >> For systems with really large amounts of RAM (more than 32 GB) you can >> likely get away with a smaller swap partition (around 1x, or less, of >> physical RAM)." >> >> >> The formula is not correct. Or is this the result of some special study? >> > The formula is the current recommendation in Red Hat Enterprise Linux > (see http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/docs/DOC-15252 ) and is what anaconda > will create by default when installing Red Hat Enterprise Linux or > Fedora. I don't think we should change this recommendation unless > anaconda's behaviour changes as well. > > I think the text makes it pretty clear that this recommendation is only > indicative; it's prefaced "If you are unsure about what size swap > partition to create..." > > Do you think we need to draw more attention to this being a "rule of thumb"? Some references should be provided. On systems with SSDs swap partitions are not recommended. __________________________ Kernel Options Most if not all desktop, netbook and laptop users will need the option iommu=noaperture It should be documented. btw some parts of the draft guide have explicit instructions for RHEL Best A. Mani - -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknWoBYACgkQunMISzvdfU6pUACfQFTm4nhYVEQm4LOMHO1JD3mb 2rIAnjsn3CLs7jlxh7XGOA06VUbUQW8s =Rsf/ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sat Apr 4 01:07:36 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Sat, 4 Apr 2009 06:37:36 +0530 Subject: install guide draft Message-ID: <78323d480904031807u21c113b3h178a72e4d8e007f0@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Joshua Wulf wrote: > Reading its preceding text and looking at the formula, I think it should > have been: > > ?If M < 2 > ? ? S = M *2 > ?Else > ? ? S = (M - 2) + 4 > > ?if there are less than 2GB in the machine then you should double it = M * 2 > ?if there are more than two gigs then you need the 4GB for the first two > gigs, then 1GB for each 1GB above 2GB > > Which part are you calling out as wrong? The formula as regards its > preceding text, or the whole thing? I was saying the formula for M >= 2 is way off target. The cited kb article 15252 confirms it. I suggested an estimate in my OP, I think it makes sense to revise it to If Desktop User then Min(3, 2*M) If 4 < M < 150, then S = Max (5, M/5) If 150 < M < 256, then S= 24 as some kind of default on the principle that "'Default values' should be a little more than the minimum recommended" (in this scenario). Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknWskUACgkQunMISzvdfU4knwCfTwQY/n7ahLIjF75syJRfQp6s QHAAoLztvNaTyr0INgtR88O58WhDDlf1 =e7UG -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From r.landmann at redhat.com Sat Apr 4 01:23:53 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 11:23:53 +1000 Subject: install guide draft In-Reply-To: <78323d480904031658l575ceb69ne081ed29b53c2dd3@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480904031658l575ceb69ne081ed29b53c2dd3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49D6B6A9.9020003@redhat.com> Mani A wrote: > On Fri, Apr 3, 2009 at 9:30 PM, wrote: > Ruediger Landmann wrote: > >> Did the native kernel have multiprocessor support before F9? >> http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f9/en_US/sn-Kernel.html >> (whatever version it was, the text should be clarified to name it >> specifically) >> > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/fc6/en_US/sn-Kernel.html#id2840748 > > mentions it > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/fc5/release-notes-ISO/#id3131236 > > says 'There is no separate SMP kernel available for the x86_64 > architecture in Fedora Core 5' > >> This note will become less and less relevant with each release ? at what >> point should we drop it though? >> > > I think it is time. Very few distros have been having different > kernels for SMP and uniprocessors for 2+ years. > You've convinced me :) Unless anyone speaks up in the next few days with a reason why this should stay in, I'll remove it. >>> "Swap should equal 2x physical RAM for up to 2 GB of physical RAM, and >>> then an additional 1x physical RAM for any amount above 2 GB, but >>> never less than 32 MB. >>> So, if: >>> M = Amount of RAM in GB, and S = Amount of swap in GB, then >>> >>> If M < 2 >>> S = M *2 >>> Else >>> S = M + 2" >>> >>> Using this formula, a system with 2 GB of physical RAM would have 4 GB >>> of swap, while one with 3 GB of physical RAM would have 5 GB of swap. >>> Creating a large swap space partition can be especially helpful if you >>> plan to upgrade your RAM at a later time. >>> For systems with really large amounts of RAM (more than 32 GB) you can >>> likely get away with a smaller swap partition (around 1x, or less, of >>> physical RAM)." >>> >>> >>> The formula is not correct. Or is this the result of some special study? >>> >>> >> The formula is the current recommendation in Red Hat Enterprise Linux >> (see http://kbase.redhat.com/faq/docs/DOC-15252 ) and is what anaconda >> will create by default when installing Red Hat Enterprise Linux or >> Fedora. I don't think we should change this recommendation unless >> anaconda's behaviour changes as well. >> >> I think the text makes it pretty clear that this recommendation is only >> indicative; it's prefaced "If you are unsure about what size swap >> partition to create..." >> >> Do you think we need to draw more attention to this being a "rule of thumb"? >> > > > Some references should be provided. > I'll see what I can find. > Most if not all desktop, netbook and laptop users will need the option > iommu=noaperture > > It should be documented. > I'll run this past the anaconda team. However, the Installation Guide generally doesn't document kernel options other than the ones that anaconda looks for. > btw some parts of the draft guide have explicit instructions for RHEL > Thanks; I've been weeding them out but we're not quite there yet. However, references to the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Deployment Guide (which are mostly in the context of "for further information...") need to stay unless we can find similarly-detailed documentation that's specific to Fedora. Suggestions are more than welcome! Thanks again for the ongoing feedback. Cheers Rudi From danielsmw at gmail.com Sun Apr 5 16:18:21 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 12:18:21 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 User Guide In-Reply-To: <20090331203212.GF5688@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090330165755.GF6184@calliope.phig.org> <51BDBFD9-3067-4444-8791-DB73361D892C@gmail.com> <20090331203212.GF5688@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <7BA4F1B9-15FF-4ED3-A6D8-273156570118@gmail.com> > We could "branch" in the wiki by copying all the current pages to > e.g. [F11 User Guide - *]]. I think we should not rename because it > creates redirects we don't want. We'll also want the F10 content > in place to rewrite from. As long as that doesn't create any wiki problems, that sounds like a good idea. Would we create a new category too, like we did for F8, or should we just leave them both with [[Category:User Guide]]? - Matthew From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Sun Apr 5 22:47:00 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Sun, 5 Apr 2009 18:47:00 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 User Guide In-Reply-To: <7BA4F1B9-15FF-4ED3-A6D8-273156570118@gmail.com> References: <20090330165755.GF6184@calliope.phig.org> <51BDBFD9-3067-4444-8791-DB73361D892C@gmail.com> <20090331203212.GF5688@calliope.phig.org> <7BA4F1B9-15FF-4ED3-A6D8-273156570118@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Apr 5, 2009 at 12:18 PM, Matthew Daniels wrote: >> We could "branch" in the wiki by copying all the current pages to >> e.g. [F11 User Guide - *]]. ?I think we should not rename because it >> creates redirects we don't want. ?We'll also want the F10 content >> in place to rewrite from. > > As long as that doesn't create any wiki problems, that sounds like a good > idea. ?Would we create a new category too, like we did for F8, or should we > just leave them both with [[Category:User Guide]]? > New Category. [[Category:F11 User Guide]] Though you can have [[Category:User Guide]] with subcats for [[Category:F11 User Guide]] and [[Category:F10 User Guide]] and F8 and F12 and ... -Susan -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 From kwade at redhat.com Mon Apr 6 17:37:17 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 10:37:17 -0700 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content Message-ID: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> http://iquaid.org/2009/01/06/the-outside-and-inside-of-documentation-or-why-arent-you-publishing-on-the-fedora-wiki/#comment-2960 I fully understand Thilo's points, and in many ways he is correct. Would there be value in pursuing additional licensing for Fedora Documentation? To be clear -- we really want to trust our lawyers on this one, so in the end, what they recommend or require is surely the way to go. But we can go a long way toward influencing their opinion on the community value of a licensing decision, outside of the legal value. In a nutshell, here is why we have not used the CC or GNU FDL in Fedora Docs: * CC has no warranty protection clause. This is important in countries such as the US; we put out technical content that could blow up someone's computer if they misuse it or we edit it incorrectly, we don't want to be liable for that. But perhaps we can use a CC and add a "NO WARRANTY" clause? Or, add the "NO WARRANTY" clause to the document itself so it is modifiable by anyone willing to take on the increased risk? * The GNU Free Documentation License 1.0 (FDL) is notoriously difficult to use, unless you use it with strict guidelines on how not to trip yourself up; this is essentially Debian's approach AIUI. Thilo's example of not being able to pull in GNOME documentation because of not being able to mix FDL in to OPL content is true. However, when we did use the FDL and pursued blending in GNOME content, we faced the various FDL requirements. They are not hard to maintain, just ... tedious. I was happier linking out the GNOME Documentation Guidelines rather than pulling them directly in to our own guide; less to maintain. I hear the new FDL is addressing these downfalls (issues with using invariant sections, cover texts, enormous license and attribution notices, etc.) The OPL is not an abandoned license AFAIK. Even if it is no longer maintained, it is not requiring maintenance. It is linked from the front of the active http://opencontent.org. (The opencontent.org/wiki is under a CC license, fwiw ...) Regardless of all that, if Red Hat wants to continue using the OPL, perhaps Fedora Docs could dual-license content. That way we could blend in GNU FDL content from e.g. GNOME, and do it so it doesn't actually mix with our dual-licensed content for our OPL-preferring downstream. I've been involved with Docs licensing for a long time, and I'm willing to let my opinion evolve. I think that Thilo is making good points mixed with some inaccuracies and an overly strong tone. Perhaps it is time to reconsider Fedora content licensing from the stand point of the community itself. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcallawa at redhat.com Mon Apr 6 17:55:50 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 13:55:50 -0400 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <49DA4226.40409@redhat.com> On 04/06/2009 01:37 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > In a nutshell, here is why we have not used the CC or GNU FDL in > Fedora Docs: > > * CC has no warranty protection clause. This is important in > countries such as the US; we put out technical content that could > blow up someone's computer if they misuse it or we edit it > incorrectly, we don't want to be liable for that. This is incorrect. I suspect you were reading the "English Human Summary" version of the CC license. For example, see this section from the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0 license: ***** 5. Representations, Warranties and Disclaimer UNLESS OTHERWISE MUTUALLY AGREED TO BY THE PARTIES IN WRITING, LICENSOR OFFERS THE WORK AS-IS AND MAKES NO REPRESENTATIONS OR WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND CONCERNING THE WORK, EXPRESS, IMPLIED, STATUTORY OR OTHERWISE, INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, WARRANTIES OF TITLE, MERCHANTIBILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, NONINFRINGEMENT, OR THE ABSENCE OF LATENT OR OTHER DEFECTS, ACCURACY, OR THE PRESENCE OF ABSENCE OF ERRORS, WHETHER OR NOT DISCOVERABLE. SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF IMPLIED WARRANTIES, SO SUCH EXCLUSION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. 6. Limitation on Liability. EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT REQUIRED BY APPLICABLE LAW, IN NO EVENT WILL LICENSOR BE LIABLE TO YOU ON ANY LEGAL THEORY FOR ANY SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, PUNITIVE OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES ARISING OUT OF THIS LICENSE OR THE USE OF THE WORK, EVEN IF LICENSOR HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. ***** > Regardless of all that, if Red Hat wants to continue using the OPL, > perhaps Fedora Docs could dual-license content. That way we could > blend in GNU FDL content from e.g. GNOME, and do it so it doesn't > actually mix with our dual-licensed content for our OPL-preferring > downstream. Red Hat Legal, while tolerant of our OPL stance, would actually much prefer it if we went to CC-BY-SA for our docs. I've asked them to double check that this is acceptable to them, and if so, draft up some wording around how we would like people to give us attribution (that is the real weakness in CC-BY-SA). I would not advocate going with GFDL. More trouble than it is worth. ~spot From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 6 18:21:23 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 23:51:23 +0530 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > http://iquaid.org/2009/01/06/the-outside-and-inside-of-documentation-or-why-arent-you-publishing-on-the-fedora-wiki/#comment-2960 > > I fully understand Thilo's points, and in many ways he is correct. > > Would there be value in pursuing additional licensing for Fedora > Documentation? > > To be clear -- we really want to trust our lawyers on this one, so in > the end, what they recommend or require is surely the way to go. But > we can go a long way toward influencing their opinion on the community > value of a licensing decision, outside of the legal value. Much of the FAQ cited in the blog post is incorrect or outdated information http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Licensing/FAQ My understanding is that, CLA does not make Red Hat, a additional copyright holder but only allows Red Hat the right to use the content. Also Red Hat's content for RHEL doesn't use OPL with the restrictions as it used to before. Can spot go through this FAQ and make it up2date? If we decide to relicense the wiki/published content under CC share alike license, do we have to ask again all our contributors? My understanding is, yes since CLA doesn't assign copyright to Red Hat as the blog post claims. Also the blog post seems to be of the mistaken impression that OPL is Red Hat's own license but it should be noted that Red Hat used a pre-existing free and open content license (as acknowledged by FSF and others) and used by Oreilly and other publications long before it was used by Red Hat. OPL is incompatible with CC licenses but the CC licenses themselves are incompatible between each other and they are incompatible with GNU FDL as well. While we can help by sticking to the more commonly used licenses, it doesn't make any of other long standing incompatibilities (such as the ones between FDL and CC licenses ) go away. Rahul From tcallawa at redhat.com Mon Apr 6 18:23:25 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 14:23:25 -0400 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> On 04/06/2009 02:21 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > My understanding is that, CLA does not make Red Hat, a additional > copyright holder but only allows Red Hat the right to use the content. > Also Red Hat's content for RHEL doesn't use OPL with the restrictions as > it used to before. Can spot go through this FAQ and make it up2date? > > If we decide to relicense the wiki/published content under CC share > alike license, do we have to ask again all our contributors? My > understanding is, yes since CLA doesn't assign copyright to Red Hat as > the blog post claims. So, in reply: * The CLA does not make Red Hat a copyright holder, unless the contributor explicitly assigns their copyright to Red Hat. * The CLA does give us the right to relicense any contributions that Fedora receives without an explicit license assignment from the upstream author. (It is likely that this will not be the case in future CLA revisions, as it also means that Fedora could relicense these contributions under non-free licensing terms, even though that is not our intent and we have never done so). Basically, what that means is that if someone committed changes to documentation without explicitly stating that those changes were under the OPL, we could relicense those changes without their permission. I suspect that very few (if any) Fedora Docs contributions came in with a license attached. hth, ~spot From ianweller at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 21:03:27 2009 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 16:03:27 -0500 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <49DA4226.40409@redhat.com> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4226.40409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090406210327.GA4483@gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 01:55:50PM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > Red Hat Legal, while tolerant of our OPL stance, would actually much > prefer it if we went to CC-BY-SA for our docs. I've asked them to double > check that this is acceptable to them, and if so, draft up some wording > around how we would like people to give us attribution (that is the real > weakness in CC-BY-SA). > Given that we can find a good way to require those doing that to give us attribution, I'd strongly support using the CC-BY-SA, most notably because it's a more widespread license that I think a lot more people have heard of than the OPL. -- Ian Weller GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Apr 6 21:41:50 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 14:41:50 -0700 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <49DA4226.40409@redhat.com> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4226.40409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090406214150.GU4662@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 01:55:50PM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > On 04/06/2009 01:37 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > In a nutshell, here is why we have not used the CC or GNU FDL in > > Fedora Docs: > > > > * CC has no warranty protection clause. This is important in > > countries such as the US; we put out technical content that could > > blow up someone's computer if they misuse it or we edit it > > incorrectly, we don't want to be liable for that. > > This is incorrect. I suspect you were reading the "English Human > Summary" version of the CC license. For example, see this section from > the Creative Commons Attribution Share Alike 3.0 license: Ah, I am not up to date on my reading, hadn't noticed the 3.0 had these clauses. > > Regardless of all that, if Red Hat wants to continue using the OPL, > > perhaps Fedora Docs could dual-license content. That way we could > > blend in GNU FDL content from e.g. GNOME, and do it so it doesn't > > actually mix with our dual-licensed content for our OPL-preferring > > downstream. > > Red Hat Legal, while tolerant of our OPL stance, would actually much > prefer it if we went to CC-BY-SA for our docs. I've asked them to double > check that this is acceptable to them, and if so, draft up some wording > around how we would like people to give us attribution (that is the real > weakness in CC-BY-SA). Heh, so it's now Fedora's OPL stance? :) I just always wanted the freest and easiest to work with license. A few years ago Mark Webbink gave me a scale that I published somewhere. In that, using the CC-BY-SA was acceptable where it is commodity technology content and not specifically one of "our products", in this case Fedora the distro, our web apps, etc. I understood this to be for the lack of warranty clause. If that is no longer the case, then I think we should seriously consider adding the CC-BY-SA 3.0 to our usage for Fedora Docs content and probably all Fedora web content. > I would not advocate going with GFDL. More trouble than it is worth. It looks like the FDL 1.3 clauses that allow compatibility with the CC-BY-SA are set to expire in Aug 2009. What does this mean about our ability to pull in and use FDL content? To work with upstreams to relicense or dual-license? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GNU_Free_Documentation_License#Compatibility_with_CC-BY-SA Thanks Spot, - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 21:47:00 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 17:47:00 -0400 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090406214700.GP4550@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 02:23:25PM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > On 04/06/2009 02:21 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > My understanding is that, CLA does not make Red Hat, a additional > > copyright holder but only allows Red Hat the right to use the content. > > Also Red Hat's content for RHEL doesn't use OPL with the restrictions as > > it used to before. Can spot go through this FAQ and make it up2date? > > > > If we decide to relicense the wiki/published content under CC share > > alike license, do we have to ask again all our contributors? My > > understanding is, yes since CLA doesn't assign copyright to Red Hat as > > the blog post claims. > > So, in reply: > > * The CLA does not make Red Hat a copyright holder, unless the > contributor explicitly assigns their copyright to Red Hat. > * The CLA does give us the right to relicense any contributions that > Fedora receives without an explicit license assignment from the upstream > author. (It is likely that this will not be the case in future CLA > revisions, as it also means that Fedora could relicense these > contributions under non-free licensing terms, even though that is not > our intent and we have never done so). > Basically, what that means is that if someone committed changes to > documentation without explicitly stating that those changes were under > the OPL, we could relicense those changes without their permission. I > suspect that very few (if any) Fedora Docs contributions came in with a > license attached. I've tended to watch the commits for the last several years. The only thing I've seen falling into the category of explicitly licensed files are the included files containing the license itself, simply to be in agreement with policy. We have moved licenses before, from FDL to OPL, and it involved a huge amount of effort to track down all the contributors for sign-off. I would encourage a CLA that still allowed Red Hat, on behalf of the Fedora Project, to relicense contributions in a way that imposes no additional terms on the recipient. (I.e. you can get less restrictive, not more restrictive.) However, I suspect that's a really difficult target to hit in legalese. The CC-BY-SA license has changed over time, so we *should* indicate a specific version, I believe. I'd be completely in favor of moving to CC-BY-SA if our worries about it no longer apply. We should not make this effort without communicating with our compatriots in Red Hat Documentation. They moved to the OPL to match our requirements so it would only be fair to coordinate with them. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 6 22:00:26 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 03:30:26 +0530 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <20090406214700.GP4550@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> <20090406214700.GP4550@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49DA7B7A.6060804@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > > We have moved licenses before, from FDL to OPL, and it involved a huge > amount of effort to track down all the contributors for sign-off. I > would encourage a CLA that still allowed Red Hat, on behalf of the > Fedora Project, to relicense contributions in a way that imposes no > additional terms on the recipient. (I.e. you can get less > restrictive, not more restrictive.) However, I suspect that's a > really difficult target to hit in legalese. It is also sometimes plain wrong. GPLv3 has more requirements but also relaxes particular requirements as well but many would say, thats a better licenses than previous versions. Also CC share alike might have more requirements than OPL as well. More requirements doesn't necessarily mean a bad thing. It's a tricky thing. What I would prefer is a counter obligation from Red Hat to keep the CLA contributions free and open source but continue to allow relicensing. FSF has something similar if you want to know how that works legally. > We should not make this effort without communicating with our > compatriots in Red Hat Documentation. They moved to the OPL to match > our requirements so it would only be fair to coordinate with them. IIRC this change was driven by Red Hat Legal. What does Red Hat legal say now? Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Mon Apr 6 21:55:58 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 14:55:58 -0700 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090406215558.GW4662@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 02:23:25PM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > On 04/06/2009 02:21 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > My understanding is that, CLA does not make Red Hat, a additional > > copyright holder but only allows Red Hat the right to use the content. > > Also Red Hat's content for RHEL doesn't use OPL with the restrictions as > > it used to before. Can spot go through this FAQ and make it up2date? > > > > If we decide to relicense the wiki/published content under CC share > > alike license, do we have to ask again all our contributors? My > > understanding is, yes since CLA doesn't assign copyright to Red Hat as > > the blog post claims. > > So, in reply: > > * The CLA does not make Red Hat a copyright holder, unless the > contributor explicitly assigns their copyright to Red Hat. Whoops, I had no idea that was there, that was an editing slip for sure. The mistaken section was here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Licensing/FAQ#Do_I_Have_Absolute_Control_Over_My_Work_.3F I have fixed it to say this: === Do I Have Absolute Control Over My Work ? === You have copyright over all of the material that you contribute to the Fedora Project. In order to ensure that documentation may be continue to be maintained and distributed, the process of submitting content, including on the wiki, to the Fedora Documentation Project includes a Contributor License Agreement (CLA) that gives Red Hat, on behalf of the Fedora Project, an copyright license for the work. This does not affect your own rights in any way. > * The CLA does give us the right to relicense any contributions that > Fedora receives without an explicit license assignment from the upstream > author. (It is likely that this will not be the case in future CLA > revisions, as it also means that Fedora could relicense these > contributions under non-free licensing terms, even though that is not > our intent and we have never done so). My thought was to seek consensus across the project (Docs + Board, most likely) to do dual-license, rather than trying to contact individual copyright holders. The Fedora Project holds the reigns in the CLA (in effect), and should act as it sees fit; that's what the intention of the CLA is, rather than having to micromanage every decision with every contributor in perpetuity. > Basically, what that means is that if someone committed changes to > documentation without explicitly stating that those changes were under > the OPL, we could relicense those changes without their permission. I > suspect that very few (if any) Fedora Docs contributions came in with a > license attached. I have never seen a license attached, except for the RPM Guide that was relicensed under our choice, which was the OPL. We have to look at that trail and find out if the original copyright holder assigned copyright or only submitted under the CLA. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Apr 6 22:06:46 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:06:46 -0700 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <20090406214700.GP4550@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> <20090406214700.GP4550@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090406220646.GX4662@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 05:47:00PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > We have moved licenses before, from FDL to OPL, and it involved a huge > amount of effort to track down all the contributors for sign-off. I > would encourage a CLA that still allowed Red Hat, on behalf of the > Fedora Project, to relicense contributions in a way that imposes no > additional terms on the recipient. (I.e. you can get less > restrictive, not more restrictive.) However, I suspect that's a > really difficult target to hit in legalese. Yes, which was why we included getting everyone under the CLA so Fedora could choose to move again. I wish there were a way to do a slick CLA like you describe. Next best might be to track people more carefully via FAS, so we can facilitate any relicensing in the future. Being able to identify and then get in contact with all the copyright holders last time was a big part of the hassle. If we have a FAS module that tracks the individual commits in SCM and the wiki by contributors, we could granularly know who did what in order to know who to ask for copyright/licensing issues. > The CC-BY-SA license has changed over time, so we *should* indicate a > specific version, I believe. I'd be completely in favor of moving to > CC-BY-SA if our worries about it no longer apply. Yes, let's hear from RHT Legal about that. > We should not make this effort without communicating with our > compatriots in Red Hat Documentation. They moved to the OPL to match > our requirements so it would only be fair to coordinate with them. This is a chicken-and-egg situation. Fedora Docs switched to the OPL because Red Hat was never going to release content under the GNU FDL. We realized we could more easily be an upstream for Red Hat content if we adopted the OPL in its free form. That way Red Hat only had to remove a few clauses rather than pick a new license. So, originally, it was Red Hat's preference for the OPL that started things off. I also think we should consider dual-licensing over switching entirely. If anything, there is no advantage to a solid switch, while dual-licensing gives us flexibility for existing situations, e.g. Red Hat, CentOS, etc. Also, I like the OPL and don't to disparage it in the process of widening choices for our contributors and community. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Apr 6 22:08:03 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 18:08:03 -0400 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <49DA7B7A.6060804@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> <20090406214700.GP4550@localhost.localdomain> <49DA7B7A.6060804@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090406220803.GT4550@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 03:30:26AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > We have moved licenses before, from FDL to OPL, and it involved a huge > > amount of effort to track down all the contributors for sign-off. I > > would encourage a CLA that still allowed Red Hat, on behalf of the > > Fedora Project, to relicense contributions in a way that imposes no > > additional terms on the recipient. (I.e. you can get less > > restrictive, not more restrictive.) However, I suspect that's a > > really difficult target to hit in legalese. > > It is also sometimes plain wrong. GPLv3 has more requirements but also > relaxes particular requirements as well but many would say, thats a > better licenses than previous versions. Also CC share alike might have > more requirements than OPL as well. More requirements doesn't > necessarily mean a bad thing. It's a tricky thing. What I would prefer > is a counter obligation from Red Hat to keep the CLA contributions free > and open source but continue to allow relicensing. FSF has something > similar if you want to know how that works legally. FSF uses copyright assignment, IIRC, which we don't. > > We should not make this effort without communicating with our > > compatriots in Red Hat Documentation. They moved to the OPL to match > > our requirements so it would only be fair to coordinate with them. > > IIRC this change was driven by Red Hat Legal. What does Red Hat legal > say now? I wouldn't presume to speak for Red Hat Legal. The OPL was a free license that matched Fedora Documentation. Spot has already said in his previous post that Red Hat Legal might now prefer CC-BY-SA. Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Apr 6 22:10:25 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 6 Apr 2009 15:10:25 -0700 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <49DA7B7A.6060804@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> <20090406214700.GP4550@localhost.localdomain> <49DA7B7A.6060804@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090406221025.GY4662@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 03:30:26AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > We should not make this effort without communicating with our > > compatriots in Red Hat Documentation. They moved to the OPL to match > > our requirements so it would only be fair to coordinate with them. > > IIRC this change was driven by Red Hat Legal. What does Red Hat legal > say now? As I said separately, the original drive was to match up with Red Hat's licensing. Spot said RHT Legal would prefer us to use the CC-BY-SA, which is welcome news to me. Let's hear back from Spot on this question for Legal: "Is there any reason Fedora Documentation cannot dual-license or relicense all Fedora content including the wiki and fedoraproject.org under the CC-BY-SA?" - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcallawa at redhat.com Mon Apr 6 22:09:04 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Mon, 06 Apr 2009 18:09:04 -0400 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <20090406214150.GU4662@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4226.40409@redhat.com> <20090406214150.GU4662@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <49DA7D80.7080905@redhat.com> On 04/06/2009 05:41 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > It looks like the FDL 1.3 clauses that allow compatibility with the > CC-BY-SA are set to expire in Aug 2009. What does this mean about our > ability to pull in and use FDL content? To work with upstreams to > relicense or dual-license? The exemptions wouldn't really apply to us, due to the timing. It would be safe to assume that CC-BY-SA is GFDL incompatible. (CC-BY might be GFDL compatible, but you might end up with derived proprietary works.) ~spot From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 6 22:18:35 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 03:48:35 +0530 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <20090406220803.GT4550@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> <20090406214700.GP4550@localhost.localdomain> <49DA7B7A.6060804@fedoraproject.org> <20090406220803.GT4550@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49DA7FBB.3080305@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 03:30:26AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: What I would prefer >> is a counter obligation from Red Hat to keep the CLA contributions free >> and open source but continue to allow relicensing. FSF has something >> similar if you want to know how that works legally. > > FSF uses copyright assignment, IIRC, which we don't. That doesn't mean that this particular clause or the idea behind it cannot be adopted. The only real problem with copyright assignment is the fear that my contributions can be used under proprietary terms by a commercial organization (ie) exploitation of my volunteer work. A counter promise takes that fear away. > I wouldn't presume to speak for Red Hat Legal. The OPL was a free > license that matched Fedora Documentation. Spot has already said in > his previous post that Red Hat Legal might now prefer CC-BY-SA. Then I would prefer that we go straight to CC-BY-SA and not dual license. Dual license seems to have no real advantage in this matter and will only complicate reuse of content. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 6 22:24:25 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 03:54:25 +0530 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <20090406220646.GX4662@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4823.3020301@fedoraproject.org> <49DA489D.2080704@redhat.com> <20090406214700.GP4550@localhost.localdomain> <20090406220646.GX4662@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <49DA8119.3070104@fedoraproject.org> Karsten Wade wrote: > I also think we should consider dual-licensing over switching > entirely. If anything, there is no advantage to a solid switch, while > dual-licensing gives us flexibility for existing situations, e.g. Red > Hat, CentOS, etc. Also, I like the OPL and don't to disparage it in > the process of widening choices for our contributors and community. All dual licensing has the problem of a singular fork under one of the licenses. Imagine this scenario. * Fedora dual licenses all its content * Joe Random takes content under one of the licenses, CC-BY-SA or OPL and makes a lot of changes but only under one of the license. * Unless Joe Random agrees to relicense under BOTH licenses, he can keep taking content from us and publish it under one of the licenses but we cannot merge back any of his changes. It become a one way fork. That is why a dual license is problematic. All contributions must be under BOTH licenses for it to be effective. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 6 22:30:16 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 04:00:16 +0530 Subject: Free Books Message-ID: <49DA8278.3060209@fedoraproject.org> Hi Listing of free Linux related books that might be of interest here. http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20090405061458383/20oftheBestFreeLinuxBooks-Part1.html http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=4491 Rahul From kramer.tim at cox.net Sun Apr 5 02:02:09 2009 From: kramer.tim at cox.net (Tim Kramer) Date: Sat, 04 Apr 2009 22:02:09 -0400 Subject: Role changes... helping new members. In-Reply-To: <1238600462.3193.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1238600462.3193.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1238896929.5681.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-04-01 at 11:41 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > If you haven't noticed, a lot of my "leadership" comes from the Navy. > From that I am trying to extrapolate on the "Sea Dad" program where new > sailors coming to a command will have a senior member to look to for > advice, answers to questions, and to get up to speed on what they are > supposed to work on. > > I need strong, active members to step up and be these senior members to > mentor the more junior members that are joining us. In this way we can > get new members up to speed and moving towards being productive members. > > Our FAS system has groups and members in the system which allows us to > "manage" our members. That group includes three different types of > members: administrators, sponsors, and users. A few minutes ago I > cleaned out all the sponsors (moved them back to user status) and have > upgraded a couple of users to sponsor level. > > My plan is to have these sponsors actually become a "Sea Dad" for new > members. They accept these new members by sponsoring their membership. > I'll be working with these sponsors to make sure we have consistency > with all new members. > > This idea is being fleshed out more and will be discussed more in the > near future. > > Eric We all need a bit of hand-holdin' at some point. Having joined during the last-minute headless-chicken dead-line rush, I'm still a bit confused as to where things are edited.... R/ Tim From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Apr 7 13:53:44 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 09:53:44 -0400 Subject: Role changes... helping new members. References: <1238600462.3193.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1238896929.5681.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <0D3EE8C29112493F864AE2D4D5C67E5B@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Kramer" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Saturday, April 04, 2009 10:02 PM Subject: Re: Role changes... helping new members. > We all need a bit of hand-holdin' at some point. Having joined during > the last-minute headless-chicken dead-line rush, I'm still a bit > confused as to where things are edited.... Tim, the best place for hand-holding is #Fedora-docs, although it is sort of a mxed bag. You can manage to get ignored for long periods of time there, but when folks are available, it is a lot more interactive than this list. On the other hand, things posted here are available for all the lurkers who might be motivated to join in, so there is an advantage here as well. --McD From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Apr 7 16:37:39 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 12:37:39 -0400 Subject: Role changes... helping new members. In-Reply-To: <1238896929.5681.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1238600462.3193.23.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1238896929.5681.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1239122259.3471.20.camel@thunder> On Sat, 2009-04-04 at 22:02 -0400, Tim Kramer wrote: > We all need a bit of hand-holdin' at some point. Having joined during > the last-minute headless-chicken dead-line rush, I'm still a bit > confused as to where things are edited.... > > R/ Tim > Yeah, I blame myself. (Tim is a good friend and almost close enough to be a neighbor.) Tim, when you get your box back up and running let's chat. Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rfontana at redhat.com Tue Apr 7 19:13:08 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 15:13:08 -0400 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content Message-ID: <20090407151308.52f869d6@calliope> Hi, I have been following the thread on Fedora content licensing and, since Red Hat Legal was mentioned, I wanted to make a few comments, speaking here as a licensing lawyer for Red Hat. The Docs Project licensing FAQ http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Licensing/FAQ says: The legal counsel for the Fedora Project carefully examined all of the well-known content licenses, and concluded that only the OPL met all of the criteria for an unambiguous and enforceable license that would guarantee the freedoms of contributors and users. This was Red Hat's best judgment at the time, but it no longer represents Red Hat's view. All free (not to mention non-free and quasi-free) content licenses that we know of have flaws, and the OPL isn't the worst, but, while I don't want to unduly disparage the OPL, I cannot see how anyone can, today, justifiably regard it as the best. The use of the OPL certainly has been an important part of Red Hat's history, and Fedora's history, but it is perhaps best regarded as a legacy content license, favored by Red Hat during a transitional period in which Red Hat's documentation licensing policy was gradually liberalized. In a posting in this thread, Spot said that Red Hat Legal "tolerates" Fedora's use of the OPL. That's accurate; part of that tolerance is an appreciation (which has grown over time) for the difficulties involved in license changes and the community expectations that have been built up around longstanding license policies. Red Hat similarly accepts what I understand to be a general preference for the OPL by the authors on our outstanding engineering content services team, as implemented for example in the Publican Red Hat branding package. Within limits, Red Hat gives its developers and content authors significant discretion to select licenses for software and documentation. The practice of adding nonfree restrictions (for which the OPL uses the Orwellian term "options"), which once characterized much Red Hat documentation and distinguished it from Fedora's, is however no longer acceptable. All Red Hat-copyrighted OPL-licensed documentation is now therefore available under vanilla OPL, and thus any reference to "options" can be ignored. The Docs Project licensing FAQ says: The documentation provided by Red Hat, Inc. is licensed under the OPL today, and has been using the optional clauses to prevent the documents being modified and published without permission. Red Hat is going to remove those optional clauses and use the same license as Fedora Documentation. More details about this are forthcoming. The removal of the "options" is now accomplished as a matter of policy. (Anyone who sees any post-2008 Red Hat documentation licensed under OPL+"options" is encouraged to file a bug report.) The statement seems to suggest that Red Hat has a single-license policy for documentation, but that has (as far as I can tell) never been so, any more than we have had, say, a GPLv2-only policy for software. Red Hat has, and continues to, license some of its copyrighted documentation under the GFDL, for example, and indeed under ordinary FOSS licenses. The FAQ says: Red Hat documentation that uses the same OPL licensing is going to be able to intermingle content with the Fedora community. I don't know how much of a real desire there is for such intermingling, but in general this intermingling has always been possible for Red Hat-copyrighted documentation. For example, I mentioned that Red Hat licenses some of its copyrighted documentation under the GFDL. Suppose Fedora switches content licensing to CC-BY-SA. Even though GFDL and CC-BY-SA are basically incompatible, Red Hat can generally permit the Fedora community to use GFDL-licensed Red Hat-copyrighted documentation under CC-BY-SA if requested to do so. The issue about Creative Commons and absence of warranty disclaimers must reflect either a mistaken reading by us or (less likely, I think) a misunderstanding of something we said. As far as I can tell, all Creative Commons licenses have had boilerplate warranty disclaimers from the get-go. - Richard -- Richard E. Fontana Open Source Licensing and Patent Counsel Red Hat, Inc. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Apr 7 19:34:47 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 08 Apr 2009 01:04:47 +0530 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <20090407151308.52f869d6@calliope> References: <20090407151308.52f869d6@calliope> Message-ID: <49DBAAD7.7050805@fedoraproject.org> Richard Fontana wrote: > The issue about Creative Commons and absence of warranty disclaimers > must reflect either a mistaken reading by us or (less likely, I think) a > misunderstanding of something we said. As far as I can tell, all > Creative Commons licenses have had boilerplate warranty disclaimers > from the get-go. Thanks for clarifying all this. Much appreciated. If I may, I have a couple more questions: * Would you recommend CC-BY-SA or GNU FDL as the choice to go forward with? Which one * Would you recommend a dual licensing strategy or just a single license to switch to? Somewhat out of scope for this discussion, could a future revision of the Fedora CLA have a counter promise from Red Hat to keep the contributions, free and open? Rahul From rfontana at redhat.com Tue Apr 7 20:19:36 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 16:19:36 -0400 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <49DBAAD7.7050805@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090407151308.52f869d6@calliope> <49DBAAD7.7050805@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090407161936.51049d11@calliope> On Wed, 08 Apr 2009 01:04:47 +0530 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > * Would you recommend CC-BY-SA or GNU FDL as the choice to go forward > with? Which one I think either choice is sufficiently reasonable that it's something for the Fedora Project to decide. So, no recommendation. > * Would you recommend a dual licensing strategy or just a single > license to switch to? Based on what was discussed upthread, I assume you mean a policy of keeping Fedora content under OPL but also offering it under another license like CC-BY-SA. There may be some advantage to this, but I'm not sure what it would be. Still, such dual-licensing would not be unreasonable on its face; after all, OPL has been the established Fedora content license for a long time. So, no recommendation. > Somewhat out of scope for this discussion, could a future revision of > the Fedora CLA have a counter promise from Red Hat to keep the > contributions, free and open? I'm hoping that the Fedora board and Red Hat Legal can make progress on revising the Fedora CLA in the near future. Although the form of the current CLA is probably better suited to a project like Apache than to a project like Fedora, I think the way that Fedora has been applying the CLA in practice is actually good, and points the way toward possible revision. Perhaps the best way for a contributor to keep contributions free and open is for that contributor to explicitly place a copyleft license on his or her contributions, which any Fedora contributor can do today under the existing CLA. - RF From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 8 00:08:35 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 07 Apr 2009 20:08:35 -0400 Subject: Tomorrow's Meeting Agenda Message-ID: <1239149315.3471.58.camel@thunder> Does anyone have anything specific to add to tomorrow's agenda? I want to get that nailed down tonight if possible. Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bansalcooldheeraj at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 11:16:23 2009 From: bansalcooldheeraj at gmail.com (dheeraj bansal) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 16:46:23 +0530 Subject: Free Books In-Reply-To: <49DA8278.3060209@fedoraproject.org> References: <49DA8278.3060209@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <220938700904080416o6ad30026t61a30abac7a2bb3b@mail.gmail.com> Thanks Rahul it helped a lot On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 4:00 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > Listing of free Linux related books that might be of interest here. > > > http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20090405061458383/20oftheBestFreeLinuxBooks-Part1.html > > http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=4491 > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 8 11:32:09 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 07:32:09 -0400 Subject: Tomorrow's Meeting Agenda In-Reply-To: <1239149315.3471.58.camel@thunder> References: <1239149315.3471.58.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090408113209.GN23842@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Apr 07, 2009 at 08:08:35PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > Does anyone have anything specific to add to tomorrow's agenda? I want > to get that nailed down tonight if possible. We should probably do a general review of the docs schedule/tasks, and make sure people know how to package up the fedora-release-notes RPM for the Preview Release. Hint: It's more than just the one document; the F10 instructions were memorialized here: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/release-notes.git/?p=docs/release-notes.git;a=blob_plain;f=README.fedora-release;hb=refs/heads/f10 We may be able to eliminate the "homepage" material from the release notes, but at least the about-fedora and other readme* material is still needed, AFAIK. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Apr 8 12:54:16 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 8 Apr 2009 08:54:16 -0400 Subject: Tomorrow's Meeting Agenda References: <1239149315.3471.58.camel@thunder> <20090408113209.GN23842@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1ED20CEE1C86405BB432667A0B868347@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2009 7:32 AM Subject: Re: Tomorrow's Meeting Agenda > Hint: It's more than just the one document I had observed that, but it seemed like a simple problem to solve once the language and whole Publican weirdness was resolved. There has been a lot of discussion, but I'm not 100% sure we actually know how to package the Publican result, although maybe I haven't been paying attention. But I am tinkering as we speak. --McD From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Thu Apr 9 09:01:45 2009 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:01:45 +0800 Subject: Licensing directions for Fedora content In-Reply-To: <20090406210327.GA4483@gmail.com> References: <20090406173717.GT4662@calliope.phig.org> <49DA4226.40409@redhat.com> <20090406210327.GA4483@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49DDB979.9030208@hidayahonline.org> On 04/07/2009 05:03 AM, Ian Weller wrote: > On Mon, Apr 06, 2009 at 01:55:50PM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > >> Red Hat Legal, while tolerant of our OPL stance, would actually much >> prefer it if we went to CC-BY-SA for our docs. I've asked them to double >> check that this is acceptable to them, and if so, draft up some wording >> around how we would like people to give us attribution (that is the real >> weakness in CC-BY-SA). >> >> > Given that we can find a good way to require those doing that to give us > attribution, I'd strongly support using the CC-BY-SA, most notably > because it's a more widespread license that I think a lot more people > have heard of than the OPL. > > For what it's worth, I also vote +1 for CC-BY-SA. From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Thu Apr 9 09:26:09 2009 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 17:26:09 +0800 Subject: Wiki Freeze Tomorrow In-Reply-To: <49D28B13.40909@fedoraproject.org> References: <6268CAE1187543EF803DFB198B8AEBE3@Aidan> <49D24000.6050506@fedoraproject.org> <20090331205934.GG5688@calliope.phig.org> <49D28B13.40909@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <49DDBF31.1000304@hidayahonline.org> On 04/01/2009 05:28 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: > > >> We go through this every release. Waiting until the last minute to >> put "lots of content" in to the release notes beats is also >> unacceptable. >> > > I really can't help that. Either I do all that work and not enough > content goes in and I don't have time to do the work with this schedule. > You can clearly see the difference in the quality of the overview > between Fedora 9 (where I had time to do it) vs Fedora 10 (where I > didn't). If other people step up, I am happy to let them. > > Rahul > At the risk of overcommitting myself, I might be willing to help out a bit. Is the freeze that was referred to relating to the final release of F11, or just the Preview Release? Or was it the beta? I'm so out of touch right now...are you sure you want me writing stuff? From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Apr 9 20:50:23 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 16:50:23 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2009-04-09 IRC log Message-ID: <1239310223.3392.579.camel@thunder> Apr 08 20:00:06 Apr 08 20:00:06 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting Apr 08 20:00:07 Roll Call! Apr 08 20:00:07 * Sparks is here Apr 08 20:00:12 * ke4qqq is here Apr 08 20:00:18 * joat is here too Apr 08 20:00:18 * radsy is here Apr 08 20:00:23 joat: Yikes... Apr 08 20:00:33 huh?! where? Apr 08 20:00:36 * rudi is here Apr 08 20:00:38 * ianweller is here Apr 08 20:00:43 * dychen_ (n=dingyich at d122-105-171-109.rdl15.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 20:00:44 joat: #fedora-mething is where we go when we need more hours as we draw near to release Apr 08 20:00:48 * laubersm is here Apr 08 20:01:10 * Sparks gives everyone a few more seconds to come in and have a seat. Apr 08 20:01:17 is here Apr 08 20:01:19 oh, there's chairs? Apr 08 20:01:20 * ianweller sits Apr 08 20:01:30 * jjmcd is here, just not paying attention Apr 08 20:01:32 ke4qqq: that's the channel for the tired mis-typing types? Apr 08 20:01:57 at least for the tired :) Apr 08 20:02:19 * che_ has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Apr 08 20:02:23 First off I'd like to say thanks for everyone coming today. It's always great having everyone here. Apr 08 20:02:23 I'd also like to apologize for not being around here recently. The Navy is trying to send me somewhere so I've been trying to get that worked out in addition to handling "regular" $DAYJOB activities which has become more of a hassle here recently. Apr 08 20:02:23 That being said. If you need to get up with me hit me up on IRC. I try to be around as much as I can be and at the end of the day when I have so many e-mail messages pending I usually skim over them which means I probably miss a lot. Apr 08 20:03:30 email is over-rated anyway Apr 08 20:03:31 Okay, on with the agenda Apr 08 20:03:37 radsy: I agree! :) Apr 08 20:03:38 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Sponsoring new members Apr 08 20:03:47 Just wanted to throw this out. Last week I made some changes to the Docs "group" in FAS. We have a ton of users in there and I moved some of the sponsors around to make sure that we have our more "senior" members in as sponsors. It's not a dig if you aren't a sponsor as I was simply grabbing a few people to get things rolling. I'll be ironing these "roles" out better in the near future. Apr 08 20:04:15 What I want to do is make sure that everyone that is unapproved in the docs group goes through the formal process of becoming a member. That means joining the listserv, providing an introduction, etc. I also want to make sure that those new members get a brief introduction to what we do and how we do it. If you sponsor someone I want you to take them under your wing and help them along. Apr 08 20:04:15 Questions or comments? Apr 08 20:04:41 * ianweller will have no time to sponsor people :) Apr 08 20:04:50 ianweller: Bah! Apr 08 20:04:55 So you want the gray hairs to do the mentoring - you said "senior" Apr 08 20:05:01 Like the idea... have joined a couple orgs in the past that had orientation involving a "walk through" Apr 08 20:05:09 * ianweller won't have gray hair for a while. i'm set! Apr 08 20:05:16 jjmcd: Don't you have enough for the rest of us? Apr 08 20:05:26 even a simple howto would be better than nothing Apr 08 20:05:28 probably do Apr 08 20:05:29 * biertie has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Apr 08 20:05:45 ianweller: that can be fixed Apr 08 20:06:02 One more release ought to do it Apr 08 20:06:05 joat: Yes, and I apologize for not helping you out! I'll make a better attempt starting tonight. Apr 08 20:07:05 Just beware... If you do a good job you are probably going to be selected in the near future! Apr 08 20:07:20 no frying pans here - just straight into the fire Apr 08 20:07:25 :) Apr 08 20:07:33 i've been volunteered before... :) Apr 08 20:07:35 Okay, anything else on this one? Apr 08 20:07:48 Sparks: it'd be nice to have a roadmap Apr 08 20:07:56 to show to the people being mentored Apr 08 20:08:03 ke4qqq: +1 Apr 08 20:08:03 ie, what we are expected to show Apr 08 20:08:12 * biertie (n=bert at 91.180.131.70) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 20:08:23 so that someone doesn't get the raw end of the deal because it fell to me to mentor them :) Apr 08 20:08:32 ke4qqq: Yeah, it's going to depend on what they are going to work on but yes, we need a "general road map". Apr 08 20:08:41 or at least the wiki pages updated - now that they are renamed and have categories Apr 08 20:09:03 it is still a mash of info without the map Apr 08 20:09:06 * ke4qqq wonders if we can task quaid to do that since he isn't here. Apr 08 20:09:19 ke4qqq: Again, another great idea Apr 08 20:09:27 * Sparks notes that stickster isn't here either Apr 08 20:09:39 good luck Apr 08 20:09:49 I have irc alert, even though this in-person discussion is more fun :) Apr 08 20:10:06 quaid, pointed out what to archive and what to keep - so he must have a plan for revising what is left :) Apr 08 20:10:09 * ke4qqq will remember to say q-u-a-i-d next time. Apr 08 20:10:18 * ianweller will remember to say diauq Apr 08 20:10:29 ianweller: I am sure he has that on alert Apr 08 20:11:17 Sparks: I think those in the 'docs' queue are driveby; they requested when they made their FAS account and didn't follow-up Apr 08 20:11:30 Yes, I agree Apr 08 20:11:40 They are all pretty recent, tho Apr 08 20:11:52 how long should we wait until we consider a request "stale" and remove it if they haven't done the follow-up? Apr 08 20:11:55 we can send them something about the proper join process, then delete them; or just purge and point them at the join. Apr 08 20:12:03 ianweller: I have that tagged for highlight, too Apr 08 20:12:13 seriously? lol Apr 08 20:12:16 ianweller: less than a week Apr 08 20:12:22 since the join process Apr 08 20:12:28 specifies the group as -after- the self-intro Apr 08 20:12:38 so, send a reminder, then wait a week, then purge; IMHO Apr 08 20:12:44 Good plan Apr 08 20:13:19 * ryanlerch (n=rlerch at nat/redhat/x-c8220ac66d82f571) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 20:13:26 ryanlerch!!!!! Apr 08 20:13:28 Morning ryanlerch Apr 08 20:13:31 * mdomsch has quit ("Leaving") Apr 08 20:13:35 morning Apr 08 20:13:48 * joat still needs to submit a self-intro (yikes!) Apr 08 20:13:51 * quaid drops networks to run back to the hotel Apr 08 20:13:57 bbiafew Apr 08 20:14:18 * jjmcd is disappointed stickster is gone missing, was hoping to hit him up for some mentoring, actually Apr 08 20:14:22 Okay, we need to move along or else we'll be consuming the next two meeting spots. Apr 08 20:14:31 we can be greedy Apr 08 20:14:52 jjmcd: We have been... But I have to go to bed at a decent hour tonight. Apr 08 20:15:02 haha. "decent hour." Apr 08 20:15:04 sleep is overrated Apr 08 20:15:05 * ianweller shuts up ;) Apr 08 20:15:06 jjmcd: Plus MythBusters Special comes on in 45 min! Apr 08 20:15:16 heh Apr 08 20:15:23 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Review docs schedule and tasks. Apr 08 20:15:34 Okay, stickster wanted us to talk about this. Apr 08 20:15:47 Does anyone know when documents are due for translation? Apr 08 20:15:54 4/14 Apr 08 20:16:03 14/4 :) Apr 08 20:16:04 I believe that's right Apr 08 20:16:14 14 April Apr 08 20:16:16 :) Apr 08 20:16:28 Very good class Apr 08 20:16:29 :) Apr 08 20:16:36 meanwhile, I'm trying to satisfy myself we know what to do with them once we got them Apr 08 20:16:47 So that is NEXT TUESDAY!!!!! Apr 08 20:16:52 yepper Apr 08 20:16:52 !!!!!! Apr 08 20:17:05 Does that strike fear in anyone's mind? Apr 08 20:17:18 and I believe RPMs Thursday Apr 08 20:17:30 * jjmcd packaged a publican document today and Apr 08 20:17:34 just for RN Apr 08 20:17:46 when I logged in, it came up in German, no matter what language I logged in as Apr 08 20:18:02 jjmcd: Well that's a problem! Apr 08 20:18:04 so still some learning to do Apr 08 20:18:16 Yeah, since I don't speak German Apr 08 20:18:21 jjmcd: You know, unless you are in Germany... Apr 08 20:18:30 You don't have to be able to speak it to read it Apr 08 20:18:45 I dunno, Dutch is that way, but not German Apr 08 20:18:51 :) Apr 08 20:19:03 So anyone have any concerns? Apr 08 20:19:25 I was hoping to get stickster to walk me through the old .spec file Apr 08 20:19:37 Yeah, that would have been helpful. Apr 08 20:19:46 ? Apr 08 20:19:52 >fedbot< help Apr 08 20:19:55 I figure once I understand that I'll sort what to do with publican Apr 08 20:20:00 so do we have the plan wrt to multiple files or single file or??? Apr 08 20:20:08 for srpm ^^ Apr 08 20:20:20 I'm assuming a single ... multiples would make it easy for us Apr 08 20:20:45 So what is the status of each of the docs - content wise (packaging aside)? ANd which one are they? UG IG and ??? Apr 08 20:20:54 jjmcd: ke4qqq That's pushing us into the next topic... Apr 08 20:21:02 ok sorry Apr 08 20:21:09 We have a bunch of others we are ignoring tho Apr 08 20:21:10 * tatica (n=tatica at nelug/designer/tatica) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 20:21:13 You guys are just pushing right along! Apr 08 20:21:18 So let's move along. Apr 08 20:21:18 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd Apr 08 20:21:22 There's a handful of other stuff packaged with the RNs Apr 08 20:21:36 I have no clue how we get them translated (and updated) Apr 08 20:21:58 laubersm: And I'm going to get though all the guides tonight, too. Apr 08 20:22:15 Or even where they came from, they show up in the old RPM, things like burning a CD and junk Apr 08 20:22:21 * KageSenshi (n=kagesens at fedora/KageSenshi) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 20:22:39 I thouglt Paul intended to enlighten us tonight Apr 08 20:22:45 Me too Apr 08 20:23:00 Something must have come up as he's usually marked away... Apr 08 20:23:12 * tatica has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 08 20:23:30 Well, he was installing rawhide, and they say it eats babies, does he have any babies at home? Apr 08 20:24:53 * Sparks gives him a call on Talk Apr 08 20:25:32 jjmcd: Okay, stickster will be up here shortly Apr 08 20:25:36 We have about-fedora, homepage, README, README-BURNING_ISOS and readme-live-image in the rpm Apr 08 20:25:55 jjmcd: He had Dad duty and was "yum install xchat" when I rang him Apr 08 20:25:55 No idea where they came from Apr 08 20:26:03 LOL Apr 08 20:27:11 Okay, while we wait for stickster, let's do a quick roll through all the guides to see where people are. Apr 08 20:27:14 * stickster has quit (Excess Flood) Apr 08 20:27:17 All those are small, but I am sure they need to be reviewed as a minimum Apr 08 20:27:22 Then we'll come back to RN. Apr 08 20:27:33 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- ke4qqq Apr 08 20:27:35 ke4qqq: go Apr 08 20:27:42 so we are pretty good Apr 08 20:27:48 even wrt translations Apr 08 20:28:03 we have a few things we are tweaking based on feedback from QA Apr 08 20:28:07 but not much Apr 08 20:28:12 we could use some wordsmithin Apr 08 20:28:14 g Apr 08 20:28:23 and some sanity checks Apr 08 20:28:32 but aside from that I am very happy with where we are. Apr 08 20:28:36 * stickster (n=nthereas at ip72-205-14-2.dc.dc.cox.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 20:28:40 What he said. Apr 08 20:28:54 a diller a dollar Apr 08 20:29:14 and for the record - rudi has done most of the work on IG Apr 08 20:29:21 * ajamison5579 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Apr 08 20:29:29 yay rudi Apr 08 20:29:29 And some how I never get his name in my agenda!!! Apr 08 20:29:34 rudi: Thanks!!! Apr 08 20:29:44 Anything else? Apr 08 20:30:04 nothing from me, other than I'd welcome some wordsmiths and sanity check people. Apr 08 20:30:13 ke4qqq, wordsmithing? latest pointer to the doc for the record? I might have some time this week... due when? Apr 08 20:30:25 I'll just say that I think we should keep the wordsmithing to a minimum in this release Apr 08 20:30:57 I think I'm live again now Apr 08 20:31:02 We've had a substantial increase in content, and some L10N teams are going to have a very heavy load as it is... Apr 08 20:31:09 I'm guessing all the text has been vetted at this point. Apr 08 20:31:21 laubersm: I think rlandmann has it in html on his fedorapeople page - mine is a few days old, but I'll build it again tonight (rudi does the html and I do pdf builds) Apr 08 20:31:23 stickster: Welcome back Apr 08 20:31:29 Sparks: hmmmmm sorta Apr 08 20:31:42 Sparks - well, I pointed it out to the anaconda guys last week and got a couple of tips Apr 08 20:31:50 Sparks: if by vetted you mean it was accurate at one point in time or another for one release of RHEL or Fedora Apr 08 20:32:00 and there's been some discussion on fedora-test-list and a couple of bugs filed Apr 08 20:32:02 :) Apr 08 20:32:20 ke4qqq - LOL :) Apr 08 20:32:40 but generally yes, there hasn't been much change - and those that are required have either been longstanding bugs or some slight change in behavior specific to F11 Apr 08 20:33:33 Okay. Apr 08 20:33:43 Let's move on real quick so we can get back to the RN and stickster Apr 08 20:33:46 laubersm - http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/ Apr 08 20:33:54 rudi, thanks Apr 08 20:33:58 Okay, so I'm a bit embarassed to say that I haven't had a chance to do anything on this package. I'm going to try to look at it this week and see what I can do about getting the package approved. Apr 08 20:33:58 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Security Guide <-- sparks Apr 08 20:34:40 cool, is that 14/4 date still the deadline? Apr 08 20:34:40 radsy and a large contingent from Brisbane have done a bang up job getting everything integrated. Apr 08 20:34:50 radsy: I think so... Apr 08 20:35:21 Create Draft POT files for All Guides Tue 2009-04-14 Wed 2009-04-15 Apr 08 20:35:25 radsy: I think jjmcd knows how to get the translation files put together properly so I'll see if he has some time to help me with that. Apr 08 20:35:53 Except they don't work! (unless you like all German) Apr 08 20:35:56 ok great, thanks Apr 08 20:36:08 jjmcd: Ummm.... Apr 08 20:36:17 jjmcd: Let's chat after the meeting. Apr 08 20:36:29 That's OK, over the next couple of days Paul will teach me how to fix it Apr 08 20:36:45 radsy: Are you going to be around after the meeting? Maybe you and mhideo and I can chat real quick? Apr 08 20:37:06 he's not in his office Apr 08 20:37:21 radsy: Boo... Okay, well, you and I can talk! Apr 08 20:37:27 ok Apr 08 20:37:36 radsy: Don't go anywhere just yet... Apr 08 20:37:36 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on SELinux Guide Apr 08 20:37:46 radsy: I think you own the SELinux guide now? Apr 08 20:37:48 Sparks - talking about translations generally, or specifically about translations in rpms? Apr 08 20:37:58 kirkz sneaks in Apr 08 20:38:10 the user guide isn't changing as far as I'm aware - still working on the confined-services guide Apr 08 20:38:23 radsy: Okay, is it ready for publication? Apr 08 20:38:28 http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/html-single/ if you want a look Apr 08 20:38:32 no Apr 08 20:38:41 rudi: We need to figure out how to get the translations working properly. Apr 08 20:38:44 my timeline to finish editing is 25/5 Apr 08 20:39:09 * danielsmw (n=olpc at 130-127-20-7.mauldin.resnet.clemson.edu) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 20:39:11 radsy: Okay. Good deal. If I can ever get my head above water I can probably help you if need be Apr 08 20:39:49 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on User Guide <--danielsmw Apr 08 20:39:57 danielsmw: And look who joined up just in time. Apr 08 20:40:01 sounds good! plodding along with it, selinux a bit of a black hole Apr 08 20:40:02 Ah, I can't sneak in quietly Apr 08 20:40:20 UG Status: Apr 08 20:40:21 Sparks - working properly in rpms or the translation process more generally (ie, the joining and splitting of Publican's multiple .po files) Apr 08 20:40:30 danielsmw: Not with that awful orange Clemson dns name Apr 08 20:40:54 * ke4qqq notes that we need to tell him about cloaks Apr 08 20:41:03 Not much has changed. There was a brief list discussion about splitting off the F11 source on the wiki Apr 08 20:41:04 rudi: The joining and splitting isnt tooooo opaque Apr 08 20:41:30 We would do this so we can simultaneously clean and XMLify F10 Apr 08 20:41:35 while also working on F11 Apr 08 20:41:55 The goal is to have at least an accurate wiki guide by F11 release Apr 08 20:42:07 danielsmw: any chance of pulling off F11 by 14 April?? if you have additional people? Apr 08 20:42:09 * ryanlerch has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Apr 08 20:42:22 But with exams coming up, i have't had much time to do stuff. Apr 08 20:42:26 Um... 14? Apr 08 20:42:29 >danielsmw< https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FreenodeCloaks Apr 08 20:42:35 6 days? Apr 08 20:42:43 Eh....I suppose. Apr 08 20:43:00 I mean, with enough people, we could at least finish it onthe wiki Apr 08 20:43:13 I'm still listening to disucssions about mw-render Apr 08 20:43:26 So not sure if XML would be doable bythen. Apr 08 20:43:28 jjmcd - I'm feeling a certain amount of anxiety about it :/ I can see that the joining part is trivial :) Apr 08 20:43:37 ke4qqq: Why do you ask? Apr 08 20:43:52 danielsmw: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html Apr 08 20:44:21 * ianweller goes to eat Apr 08 20:44:22 so if we can leverage some people - ie laubersm I'd rather danielsmw get help with UG than me with IG Apr 08 20:44:29 ke4qqq: ill look in a bit, im on the XO. Apr 08 20:45:09 to be honest, i dont have a lot of time for work until May Apr 08 20:45:17 But I can manage and direct Apr 08 20:45:20 rudi: splitting shouldn't be bad either. Unused strings will pile up but we can use 'msgattrib --no-obsolete' to clean them out. Apr 08 20:45:20 ke4qqq, danielsmw I can help where ever for a few days Apr 08 20:45:23 * RodrigoPadula has quit ("Saindo") Apr 08 20:45:23 And do a little bit of work. Apr 08 20:45:26 so Sparks - let me pose this question - I think I know the answer as we did so last release for the IG - but what happens if we slip some days. Apr 08 20:45:35 on one of the guys hitting l10n Apr 08 20:45:36 danielsmw: Can you put together a list of what needs to be done? Apr 08 20:45:40 s/guys/guide/ Apr 08 20:45:48 Sparks: yes. I could have that by Friday. Apr 08 20:45:49 * laubersm was really trying to get the links into the log for others that might be lurking in need of ideas of how to help Apr 08 20:45:52 ke4qqq: Well... Apr 08 20:46:12 good catch, laubersm Apr 08 20:46:13 ke4qqq: I feel that translations might be soft anyway. It might take a day... or three months... Apr 08 20:46:14 I can probably also help with cleaning XML Apr 08 20:46:38 laubersm: yeah, I should put those in the topics. Apr 08 20:46:48 * kirk_ (n=Kirk at 71-219-105-23.slkc.qwest.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 20:46:49 ke4qqq: I know they have a to be done date... Apr 08 20:46:57 Oh, something else Apr 08 20:47:01 About the UG Apr 08 20:47:12 ke4qqq: but I'm guessing they could get it done if we turn it in late. Apr 08 20:47:29 Sparks: the done date is 14 May or 15 may Apr 08 20:47:37 ke4qqq: Or the guide gets released a little late Apr 08 20:47:38 i can be available for simple grunt work (you need to show me what to do) Apr 08 20:47:42 Since I've been trying to do some more devel work and I have more work in school, I've offered to kirk_ to take up the lead by F12. Apr 08 20:47:55 danielsmw: cool Apr 08 20:48:14 kirk_: are you still up for that? Apr 08 20:48:25 Sure Apr 08 20:48:29 Cool Apr 08 20:48:32 cool Apr 08 20:48:40 danielsmw: can you point joat in the direction of sections that need work, kirk_ can you work with joat on using the wiki and getting stuff done Apr 08 20:48:51 * zcat has quit () Apr 08 20:48:54 Yup Apr 08 20:49:06 Okay, anything else on the UG? Apr 08 20:49:11 Sparks: mind if I delegate some of that mentoring for you :) Apr 08 20:49:12 stickster - thanks; I'll take a look at that. Apr 08 20:49:13 Nope, not from me Apr 08 20:49:16 * zcat (n=zcat at fedora/zcat) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 20:49:18 ke4qqq: Go for it! :) Apr 08 20:49:30 * kirkz has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Apr 08 20:49:54 ke4qqq: Just realize that people notice that kind of thing and start eying you as my replacement. Apr 08 20:50:07 Okay... Moving back to the RN so stickster can preach! Apr 08 20:50:09 danielsmw: status with publican transifex Apr 08 20:50:11 ? Apr 08 20:50:26 Sparks: OK, what are the pending questions at this point? Apr 08 20:50:27 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes Apr 08 20:50:41 stickster: I think jjmcd had some questions. Apr 08 20:50:48 ke4qqq: my part is just involved right now with some status/statistic reports Apr 08 20:51:02 I've pretty much digested all the code Apr 08 20:51:15 Well, I think the main thing is understanding f-r-n.spec. Perhaps we can schedule a walkthrough in the next day or two Apr 08 20:51:19 And I'm working now on a first example Apr 08 20:51:27 danielsmw: outstanding! Apr 08 20:51:34 Is there a date i should be looking at Apr 08 20:51:35 ? Apr 08 20:51:50 danielsmw: glezos can answer that better than I Apr 08 20:52:10 okay Apr 08 20:52:36 jjmcd: I can probably do something tomorrow afternoon -- Friday gets hairy, because it's a company holiday and I've got a bunch of honeydews to get completed before we leave on vacation Apr 08 20:53:02 so another process type question - who is packaging RN? Apr 08 20:53:09 jjmcd: Basically the biggest part of the spec is just putting pieces in place on the file system Apr 08 20:53:13 /me sees no reason why tomorrow PM wouldn't be good Apr 08 20:53:26 jjmcd: There's not much to it, just some "for/do/done" loops and a bunch of "/usr/bin/install" commands Apr 08 20:53:40 Yeah, I see a lot of that Apr 08 20:53:42 long != complex Apr 08 20:53:50 * stickster goes to take a look Apr 08 20:53:54 But I don't understand how the languages get selected Apr 08 20:54:13 jjmcd: The languages are all part of the tarballs IIRC Apr 08 20:54:59 jjmcd: For instance, this line: Apr 08 20:55:00 Also, we have those other docs, I suspect we need to review and re-translate Apr 08 20:55:06 L=`echo ${F} | %{__sed} 's/Release_Notes-\(.*\)\.html/\1/'` Apr 08 20:55:29 That's just snipping out the 'en-US' for example in Release_Notes-en-US.html Apr 08 20:55:34 * zcat has quit () Apr 08 20:55:38 ahhhhh Apr 08 20:55:53 * jjmcd didnt pull out his sed book to decode that Apr 08 20:55:56 * zcat (n=zcat at fedora/zcat) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 20:56:14 who is packaging the RN? Apr 08 20:56:16 These other documents all have git repos too Apr 08 20:56:24 ke4qqq: This is the question of the hour, thank you for asking Apr 08 20:56:40 Oh, cool - so we just reviews, update as needed, make pots Apr 08 20:56:43 * stickster will be on vacation, which was one of the reasons he wanted to make sure this was discussed :-) Apr 08 20:57:14 ke4qqq: I am assuming I am going to get stuck with it. Since I am not a packager, I want to have done it before next week Apr 08 20:57:17 stickster: We'll just need a phone number you can be reached at Apr 08 20:57:46 Sparks: Ha, you must think I'm pretty gullible Apr 08 20:58:01 stickster: I think the word I'm looking for is... responsive Apr 08 20:58:03 jjmcd: so that worries me wrt to sponsorship - I don't think docs has any packaging sponsors. Soo....can we get you sponsored on another package quickly? Apr 08 20:58:30 ke4qqq: Actually, f13 should be able to help I think. Apr 08 20:58:40 Funny thing: I just made a simple RPM I was thinking of submitting for F12 Apr 08 20:58:47 ahhh cool Apr 08 20:58:51 jjmcd: def do so Apr 08 20:59:15 ke4qqq: jjmcd: If someone prepares the SRPM, you can publish it on your fedorapeople.org site, and just coordinate with f13 to pull it down and import it to CVS. Apr 08 20:59:29 OK, good Apr 08 20:59:47 * ke4qqq would rather grow the packager count in docs anyway Apr 08 20:59:54 ke4qqq: I fully agree Apr 08 20:59:56 As I said, I made an RPM of a test doc, but when I installed it, all the languages came out German Apr 08 21:00:10 ke4qqq: I'm trying! Apr 08 21:00:10 jjmcd: What I will try to do tomorrow is revise that set of instructions that's in the f10 branch of the release notes, and put the fresh copy in the devel branch. Apr 08 21:00:25 OK, cool Apr 08 21:01:51 So tomorrow AM I'll read, then tomorrow PM we'll talk Apr 08 21:01:59 Sparks: I wasn't picking on you Apr 08 21:02:17 ke4qqq: I know... But I am trying. I think quaid said he was going to try as well. Apr 08 21:02:33 ke4qqq: Let's all become packagers! Apr 08 21:02:45 jjmcd: Anytime after 11am or so should work for me, it looks Apr 08 21:02:46 it'd be nice Apr 08 21:02:56 stickster, good deal Apr 08 21:03:02 jjmcd: Do you want to set a time now so others can attend? Apr 08 21:03:09 We'll just do it here anyway, so logging works Apr 08 21:03:10 Yes, lets Apr 08 21:03:28 Good thinking - 1PM OK? Apr 08 21:03:33 disco Apr 08 21:03:52 * jjmcd quick puts an alarm on his Trea Apr 08 21:05:05 Anything else on the RN? Apr 08 21:05:39 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Open Discussion Apr 08 21:05:47 Anyone have anything they want to talk about? Apr 08 21:05:53 * lcafiero sneaks in and sits in back. Apr 08 21:06:04 nope Apr 08 21:06:15 * jjmcd was wondering whether there is likely to be a lot of docs folks at berlin Apr 08 21:06:15 nope Apr 08 21:06:18 jjmcd: I misspoke, by "here" I meant, let's meet at #fedora-docs Apr 08 21:06:25 yes Apr 08 21:06:31 I assumed so Apr 08 21:06:32 I'll be there! Apr 08 21:06:34 (Berlin I mean) Apr 08 21:06:43 I just booked my flight today Apr 08 21:06:48 Airfare suddenly plummeted for some odd reason Apr 08 21:06:56 What was $1050 last week was $589 today. Apr 08 21:07:01 I still haven't decided, but maybe a wiki->rpm automation hackfest topic Apr 08 21:07:02 wow Apr 08 21:07:04 cool Apr 08 21:07:16 Is it a bad sign that it was on "Acme Airlines"? Apr 08 21:07:21 I got a friend could get me a delta employee fare Apr 08 21:07:51 And I might just drag along baby boy Apr 08 21:08:27 (baby boy is older than half the docs folks) Apr 08 21:08:43 jjmcd: f13 can probably confirm this, but fedora-release-notes is no longer a Requires: of fedora-release in F11 I think Apr 08 21:09:28 Which means that if something goes horribly, horribly wrong, fedora-release-notes could be missing and the release can still proceed Apr 08 21:09:43 Well, I don't plan on going horribly wrong Apr 08 21:09:44 I think we'd all rather that not happen, but it's worth keeping in the back of your mind. Apr 08 21:09:58 * G_work_ (n=njones at nat/redhat/x-d22be01f2cbc6651) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 08 21:10:16 * ke4qqq is heading out for a bit - be back in an hour or so Apr 08 21:10:33 * G_work has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Apr 08 21:10:37 Okay, anything else for the meeting? Apr 08 21:11:02 I think we're set Apr 08 21:11:12 I know we've been missing some things on the agenda but after the RN goes to press next week I'll try to get things back on track. Apr 08 21:11:22 5 Apr 08 21:11:24 4 Apr 08 21:11:26 3 Apr 08 21:11:28 2 Apr 08 21:11:31 1 Apr 08 21:11:36 Thanks everyone for coming! Apr 08 21:11:36 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Apr 9 22:19:28 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 09 Apr 2009 18:19:28 -0400 Subject: A new policy for deleting wiki pages on the Fedora wiki. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1239315568.3392.723.camel@thunder> Earlier today, Max brought up a good point about being able to remove pages from the wiki. We discussed it and came up with the following plan. If you want something removed from the wiki, 1. Add the {{delete|reason}} template to the page, at the top. Please insert the reason for your deletion so the wiki team will have no problem understanding why the page needs to evaporate. 2. Move the page to the Archive: namespace. Select the move tab at the top of the page, and simply rename the page to include the prefix "Archive:". * EXAMPLE: My_ugly_old_page => Archive:My_ugly_old_page * EXAMPLE: User:Jpublic/Some_page =>Archive:User:Jpublic/Some_page Pages moved in this way are removed by the wiki team after a two-week cooling-off period. Additional information on the new deletion policy can be found at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraProject:Deletion. Thanks, Eric Fedora Docs Project GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Apr 10 05:05:15 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 01:05:15 -0400 Subject: [Bug 495175] New: RFE: Octave (Request for Enhancement) Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: RFE: Octave (Request for Enhancement) https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495175 Summary: RFE: Octave (Request for Enhancement) Product: Fedora Hosted Projects Version: unspecified Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: low Priority: low Component: Deployment_Guide AssignedTo: mhideo at redhat.com ReportedBy: johndoe32102002 at gmail.com QAContact: rlerch at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora A new release of Octave emerged on April 7, 2009. Octave is a popular substitute for Matlab. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sat Apr 11 00:09:22 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:09:22 -0400 Subject: [Bug 495267] New: SELinux blocks failtoban Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: SELinux blocks failtoban https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495267 Summary: SELinux blocks failtoban Product: Fedora Hosted Projects Version: unspecified Platform: i686 OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: Security_Guide AssignedTo: mhideo at redhat.com ReportedBy: somedamfool at yahoo.com QAContact: mmcallis at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Description of problem: SELinux interfering with failtoban Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): How reproducible:With failtoban enabled SELinux generates an error every 5-10 seconds. I had over 9600 errors in about 24 hours. Summary: SELinux is preventing gam_server (fail2ban_t) "read" to ./rpm (rpm_var_lib_t). Detailed Description: SELinux denied access requested by gam_server. It is not expected that this access is required by gam_server and this access may signal an intrusion attempt. It is also possible that the specific version or configuration of the application is causing it to require additional access. Allowing Access: Sometimes labeling problems can cause SELinux denials. You could try to restore the default system file context for ./rpm, restorecon -v './rpm' If this does not work, there is currently no automatic way to allow this access. Instead, you can generate a local policy module to allow this access - see FAQ (http://fedora.redhat.com/docs/selinux-faq-fc5/#id2961385) Or you can disable SELinux protection altogether. Disabling SELinux protection is not recommended. Please file a bug report (http://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/enter_bug.cgi) against this package. Additional Information: Source Context system_u:system_r:fail2ban_t:s0 Target Context system_u:object_r:rpm_var_lib_t:s0 Target Objects ./rpm [ dir ] Source gam_server Source Path /usr/libexec/gam_server Port Host localhost.localdomain Source RPM Packages gamin-0.1.9-6.fc10 Target RPM Packages Policy RPM selinux-policy-3.5.13-54.fc10 Selinux Enabled True Policy Type targeted MLS Enabled True Enforcing Mode Enforcing Plugin Name catchall_file Host Name localhost.localdomain Platform Linux localhost.localdomain 2.6.27.21-170.2.56.fc10.i686 #1 SMP Mon Mar 23 23:37:54 EDT 2009 i686 athlon Alert Count 23 First Seen Thu 09 Apr 2009 08:50:08 PM EDT Last Seen Thu 09 Apr 2009 08:51:36 PM EDT Local ID 75ebce71-d082-46a6-8ee8-5850f5344683 Line Numbers Raw Audit Messages node=localhost.localdomain type=AVC msg=audit(1239324696.103:6737): avc: denied { read } for pid=2329 comm="gam_server" name="rpm" dev=dm-0 ino=2654211 scontext=system_u:system_r:fail2ban_t:s0 tcontext=system_u:object_r:rpm_var_lib_t:s0 tclass=dir node=localhost.localdomain type=SYSCALL msg=audit(1239324696.103:6737): arch=40000003 syscall=292 success=no exit=-13 a0=3 a1=8d81340 a2=1002fc6 a3=acb140 items=0 ppid=1 pid=2329 auid=4294967295 uid=0 gid=0 euid=0 suid=0 fsuid=0 egid=0 sgid=0 fsgid=0 tty=(none) ses=4294967295 comm="gam_server" exe="/usr/libexec/gam_server" subj=system_u:system_r:fail2ban_t:s0 key=(null) Steps to Reproduce: 1.Run failtoban 2.Run SELinux 3. Actual results: I tried the suggested restorecon -v './rpm' with these results: restorecon: stat error on ./rpm: No such file or directory Expected results: Additional info: -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sat Apr 11 00:44:24 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:44:24 -0400 Subject: [Bug 495267] SELinux blocks failtoban In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200904110044.n3B0iOoI013050@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495267 Murray McAllister changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Version|unspecified |10 Component|Security_Guide |selinux-policy CC| |dwalsh at redhat.com, | |jkubin at redhat.com, | |mgrepl at redhat.com AssignedTo|mhideo at redhat.com |dwalsh at redhat.com QAContact|mmcallis at redhat.com |extras-qa at fedoraproject.org Product|Fedora Hosted Projects |Fedora --- Comment #1 from Murray McAllister 2009-04-10 20:44:24 EDT --- This looks like an selinux-policy issue. Changing components. You could try "restorecon -R -v /var" as the root user or with sudo... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sat Apr 11 00:49:10 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 20:49:10 -0400 Subject: [Bug 495267] SELinux blocks failtoban In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200904110049.n3B0nAs8013900@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495267 Murray McAllister changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |mmcallis at redhat.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 01:18:22 2009 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 11:18:22 +1000 Subject: thanks and bye for now Message-ID: <95f1114b0904101818t5adeb634ke05a57fe54a3c353@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I recently changed roles at my day job, which now takes up a little more time than before...I will not be around much or doing much for Fedora docs, so I thought I would let you all know (in case anyone noticed ;-) ). Thanks for all your help over the past year and a bit. It was great to meet you all! Cheers, Murray. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sat Apr 11 01:21:44 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 21:21:44 -0400 Subject: [Bug 495267] SELinux blocks failtoban In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200904110121.n3B1LiIo017101@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495267 Murray McAllister changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From mike at vegasitpros.com Sat Apr 11 01:44:09 2009 From: mike at vegasitpros.com (Mike Dittmeier) Date: Fri, 10 Apr 2009 18:44:09 -0700 Subject: thanks and bye for now In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0904101818t5adeb634ke05a57fe54a3c353@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0904101818t5adeb634ke05a57fe54a3c353@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <000001c9ba47$06e07ef0$14a17cd0$@com> -----Original Message----- From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Murray McAllister Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 6:18 PM To: For participants of the Documentation Project Subject: thanks and bye for now Hello, I recently changed roles at my day job, which now takes up a little more time than before...I will not be around much or doing much for Fedora docs, so I thought I would let you all know (in case anyone noticed ;-) ). Thanks for all your help over the past year and a bit. It was great to meet you all! Cheers, Murray. -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list We will miss you friend. Say hi from time to time. Mike Dittmeier From jmbabich at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 04:55:28 2009 From: jmbabich at gmail.com (John Babich) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 07:55:28 +0300 Subject: thanks and bye for now In-Reply-To: <000001c9ba47$06e07ef0$14a17cd0$@com> References: <95f1114b0904101818t5adeb634ke05a57fe54a3c353@mail.gmail.com> <000001c9ba47$06e07ef0$14a17cd0$@com> Message-ID: <9d2c731f0904102155t51316a27jc56e33acbac4d720@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 4:44 AM, Mike Dittmeier wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com > [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Murray McAllister > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2009 6:18 PM > To: For participants of the Documentation Project > Subject: thanks and bye for now > > Hello, > > I recently changed roles at my day job, which now takes up a little > more time than before...I will not be around much or doing much for > Fedora docs, so I thought I would let you all know (in case anyone > noticed ;-) ). > > Thanks for all your help over the past year and a bit. It was great to > meet you all! > > Cheers, > > Murray. > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > We will miss you friend. Say hi from time to time. > > Mike Dittmeier > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Murray: Being in a similar situation a year ago, I wish you the best. Thanks for all your efforts. John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Apr 11 13:17:53 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:17:53 -0400 Subject: thanks and bye for now In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0904101818t5adeb634ke05a57fe54a3c353@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0904101818t5adeb634ke05a57fe54a3c353@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1239455873.3423.6.camel@thunder> On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 11:18 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > Hello, > > I recently changed roles at my day job, which now takes up a little > more time than before...I will not be around much or doing much for > Fedora docs, so I thought I would let you all know (in case anyone > noticed ;-) ). > > Thanks for all your help over the past year and a bit. It was great to > meet you all! > > Cheers, > > Murray. > Murray, I wish you luck! Come on back to see us! Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Sat Apr 11 13:54:41 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 09:54:41 -0400 Subject: F11 release notes spec Message-ID: This is really about questions for Paul, but there were a few surprises for me so I thought I would post this to the list just to share the knowledge. In F10, we built the release notes from the xml, then copied the xml and resulting html into the RPM. There were also a handful of associated documents which sort of caught me by surprise. My plan in F11 Preview is to pretty much follow the .spec file for F10, with the exception that for the release notes proper I will do the Publican part of the build inside the srpm. Given the timeline I don't think we are quite ready to face the whole subpackage thing, although I'm not writing that off for GA. Some outstanding questions, mostly around gnome-help: - What is up with the .omf files? Are they simply prepared manually and included? What do they do? With my test document I can read the doc fine with yelp and no omf files, in each of my 3 test languages - What on earth is scrollkeeper and what does it do and why do we care? - In gnome-help there are a handful of topics, one of which is release notes. How did that get there? Hardcoded? - You created symlinks for some images to avoid duplication. We have a similar Publican issue, worth a little over 100K per language. Should we do the same for F11? - The whole copying business in the old .spec I found particularly hard to follow. Although I kept the basic steps, I hacked up the appearance quite a bit to make it more readable (to me). Here is a little snippet of the relevant parts. Do you see any issues with this approach? (This is a test document to make it run through Publican quicker) # Loop through the languages # for LANG in tmp/* ; do # # First, the html in /usr/share/doc/HTML # # Place where html files are SRCBASE=tmp/${LANG#tmp/}/html-desktop # Target for release notes html NOTETARG=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_defaultdocdir}/HTML/%{name}/${LANG#tmp/} mkdir -p ${NOTETARG} install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/index.html ${NOTETARG}/%{name}-${LANG#tmp/}.html mkdir -p ${NOTETARG}/Common_Content mkdir -p ${NOTETARG}/Common_Content/css mkdir -p ${NOTETARG}/Common_Content/images mkdir -p ${NOTETARG}/images install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/Common_Content/css/* ${NOTETARG}/Common_Content/css install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/Common_Content/images/* ${NOTETARG}/Common_Content/images install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/images/* ${NOTETARG}/images # # Now the gnome_help files # # Place where xml files are SRCBASE=tmp/${LANG#tmp/}/xml # gnome-help target for xml files HELPTARG=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/gnome/help/%{name}/${LANG#tmp/} mkdir -p ${HELPTARG} mkdir -p ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content mkdir -p ${HELPTARG}/images install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/images/* ${HELPTARG}/images for F in ${SRCBASE}/Common_Content/*.xml ; do install -m 644 ${F} ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content done mkdir -p ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content/css install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/Common_Content/css/* ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content/css mkdir -p ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content/images install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/Common_Content/images/* ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content/images for F in ${SRCBASE}/*.xml ; do install -m 644 ${F} ${HELPTARG}/ done done --McD From wb8rcr at arrl.net Sat Apr 11 14:58:52 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 10:58:52 -0400 Subject: F11 release notes spec References: Message-ID: Another interesting observation The scrollkeeper-update help seems to indicate that it doesn't do anything, and as far as I can tell, that is exactly what it does. --McD From danielsmw at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 15:34:20 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 11:34:20 -0400 Subject: User Guide Tasks Message-ID: <68784587-E083-4BF5-A199-9620AB88361A@gmail.com> Hi all, As per Eric's request on IRC, I've put together a task list for the F11 UG. [1] The goal is to get something of a working guide by Tuesday, which means lots of work this weekend. I know some of you have already volunteered to work on it, which I apprecaite. Please note that I'm going to be somewhat distant until May, as I'm coming up on Final Exam season. If you have any questions about the User Guide and I'm not answering on email/IRC, Kirk should be able to help you out. I'll try to at least make it to FDSCo meetings. -Matthew [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Danielsmw/User_Guide_F11_tasks From piotrdrag at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 15:40:04 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 17:40:04 +0200 Subject: F11 release notes ready for translation In-Reply-To: <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090403060753.GK4662@calliope.phig.org> <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> Paul W. Frields pisze: > Just bumping this message up so translators can see it -- I've seen a > number of commits coming in from Transifex, but not as many as usual. > One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our community. Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to collaborate and maintain release notes. Just my 2 cents, -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From stickster at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 16:16:23 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:16:23 -0400 Subject: F11 release notes spec In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090411161623.GA17519@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 09:54:41AM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > This is really about questions for Paul, but there were a few surprises > for me so I thought I would post this to the list just to share the > knowledge. > > In F10, we built the release notes from the xml, then copied the xml and > resulting html into the RPM. There were also a handful of associated > documents which sort of caught me by surprise. > > My plan in F11 Preview is to pretty much follow the .spec file for F10, > with the exception that for the release notes proper I will do the > Publican part of the build inside the srpm. Given the timeline I don't > think we are quite ready to face the whole subpackage thing, although I'm > not writing that off for GA. > > Some outstanding questions, mostly around gnome-help: > > - What is up with the .omf files? Are they simply prepared manually and > included? What do they do? With my test document I can read the doc fine > with yelp and no omf files, in each of my 3 test languages The OMF files are required to make menu entries in the Help main screen. If you go to System > Help in F10, you'll see the Release Notes represented there. Without an OMF that can't happen. > - What on earth is scrollkeeper and what does it do and why do we care? Scrollkeeper (now rarian, which has backward-compat entries in /usr/bin/) is a documentation meta-librarian. It allows the GNOME Help system to refer to man pages, info pages, and other documentation in a unified system. > - In gnome-help there are a handful of topics, one of which is release > notes. How did that get there? Hardcoded? The OMF makes this happen. The OMFs are stored in /usr/share/omf/${name}/${name}-${lang}.omf and the 'scrollkeeper-*' utilities enter them in the database. > - You created symlinks for some images to avoid duplication. We have a > similar Publican issue, worth a little over 100K per language. Should we > do the same for F11? Good question. If Publican could use subpackaging sanely, it would provide a common RPM that all the languages would require, so that the common content would only be installed once. Linking is generally frowned on for something like this, I think -- and even with 20 languages, we're only looking at ~2 MB of additional content. I don't think it's worth the trouble to figure out the linking aspect. > - The whole copying business in the old .spec I found particularly hard to > follow. Although I kept the basic steps, I hacked up the appearance quite > a bit to make it more readable (to me). Here is a little snippet of the > relevant parts. Do you see any issues with this approach? (This is a test > document to make it run through Publican quicker) > # Loop through the languages > # > for LANG in tmp/* ; do It would make more sense to do this instead: for LANGDIR in tmp/* ; do LANG=${LANGDIR#tmp/} Then proceed as before, using ${LANG} everywhere instead of repetitive ${LANG#tmp/}. Improves readability and also makes it easier to make changes without missing things later. > # > # First, the html in /usr/share/doc/HTML > # > # Place where html files are > SRCBASE=tmp/${LANG#tmp/}/html-desktop > # Target for release notes html > NOTETARG=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_defaultdocdir}/HTML/%{name}/${LANG#tmp/} > mkdir -p ${NOTETARG} > install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/index.html ${NOTETARG}/%{name}-${LANG#tmp/}.html > mkdir -p ${NOTETARG}/Common_Content > mkdir -p ${NOTETARG}/Common_Content/css > mkdir -p ${NOTETARG}/Common_Content/images > mkdir -p ${NOTETARG}/images > install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/Common_Content/css/* > ${NOTETARG}/Common_Content/css > install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/Common_Content/images/* > ${NOTETARG}/Common_Content/images > install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/images/* ${NOTETARG}/images > # > # Now the gnome_help files > # > # Place where xml files are > SRCBASE=tmp/${LANG#tmp/}/xml > # gnome-help target for xml files > HELPTARG=$RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/gnome/help/%{name}/${LANG#tmp/} > mkdir -p ${HELPTARG} > mkdir -p ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content > mkdir -p ${HELPTARG}/images > install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/images/* ${HELPTARG}/images > for F in ${SRCBASE}/Common_Content/*.xml ; do > install -m 644 ${F} ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content > done > mkdir -p ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content/css > install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/Common_Content/css/* > ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content/css > mkdir -p ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content/images > install -m 644 ${SRCBASE}/Common_Content/images/* > ${HELPTARG}/Common_Content/images > for F in ${SRCBASE}/*.xml ; do > install -m 644 ${F} ${HELPTARG}/ > done > done > > > --McD If it works and doesn't violate any packaging guidelines, go for it. As Tommy Reynolds always said to me, you break it, you own it! :-) But more seriously, how the script is written is really not as important as people knowing how it works. You may want to add comments liberally if you fear looking at it later and not recalling how things worked. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 16:26:42 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:26:42 -0400 Subject: F11 release notes spec In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090411162642.GB17519@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 10:58:52AM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > Another interesting observation > > The scrollkeeper-update help seems to indicate that it doesn't do > anything, and as far as I can tell, that is exactly what it does. Yeah, since skip_omf_translate=1 the whole script is basically a dummy. Someone might want to ask the FPC about this, since I think they still refer to scrollkeeper in the guidelines. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 16:31:18 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:31:18 -0400 Subject: F11 release notes ready for translation In-Reply-To: <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> References: <20090403060753.GK4662@calliope.phig.org> <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090411163118.GC17519@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 05:40:04PM +0200, Piotr Dr?g wrote: > Paul W. Frields pisze: >> Just bumping this message up so translators can see it -- I've seen a >> number of commits coming in from Transifex, but not as many as usual. >> > > One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate > from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really > important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if > it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more > strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular > translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill > handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much > more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is > the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? > With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our > community. > > Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users > would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English > users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to > collaborate and maintain release notes. I tend to agree with you, Piotr. I think that SIG pages on the wiki are more appropriate for explanations of esoteric packages, and that the release notes should feature information that is going to be important (1) to general users, and (2) for migrating from one release to another. So for example, warning people of an important change in a database that requires action on their part is appropriate, while saying "we now have package X" is not. That's my opinion, at least. The people who are editing release notes need to be aware of the needs of translators, and make sure that the English used in the release notes is simple enough to be understood by all readers, and translated by all translators. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Sat Apr 11 16:57:07 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 12:57:07 -0400 Subject: F11 release notes ready for translation References: <20090403060753.GK4662@calliope.phig.org><20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <343A8141C01A4297929809950BBA65CC@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Piotr Dr?g" To: ; "fedora-docs-list" Sent: Saturday, April 11, 2009 11:40 AM Subject: Re: F11 release notes ready for translation > more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is > the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? > With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our > community. Piotr, I thought we should highlight the various applications for different user groups. I was surprised, though, that I was unable to identify collections of applications of interest to many groups. You would think there would be applications for collectors, sports fans, etc., but all I could find were amateur radio, science and technology, and IC design. It happens there were a lot of changes for amateur radio apps this time, not so much for IC design. There were quite a lot of changes in the Sci/Tech area too, but I could only raise a couple of comments from developers, and the other changes were in applications that were pretty esoteric, and I didn't feel very comfortable writing about them. > Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users > would be easier to translate and understand I kind of vacillate a little on this. On the one hand, for an awful lot of applications, there isn't much to say except we went from version x to version y and here's where to find the upstream release notes (when they exist). Trouble is, it is hard to judge how big a deal that change is to the folks who use the app. This is especially true of the development tools which are pretty long this time, and probably among the most difficult to translate. In those communities, there are probably more than a few folks waiting for a particular bug fix on some particular tool. This is also somewhat true of the amateur radio community. I do feel like we really need much more complete documentation on what the apps do and how to use them, but I agree this belongs on the wiki. In fact, having a good strategy for getting that sort of information into the wiki could turn out to be a helpful recruiting tool. Perhaps a strategy for F12 might be something like a categorized list of *all* changes, and prose only about new features, or maybe significant new features. Getting everything categorized would be something of a problem (the yum categories are pretty bad), but that approach might prove more useful *and* easier to translate. Just some thoughts ... --McD From herlo1 at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 17:12:16 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 11:12:16 -0600 Subject: thanks and bye for now In-Reply-To: <1239455873.3423.6.camel@thunder> References: <95f1114b0904101818t5adeb634ke05a57fe54a3c353@mail.gmail.com> <1239455873.3423.6.camel@thunder> Message-ID: On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 7:17 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Sat, 2009-04-11 at 11:18 +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I recently changed roles at my day job, which now takes up a little >> more time than before...I will not be around much or doing much for >> Fedora docs, so I thought I would let you all know (in case anyone >> noticed ;-) ). >> >> Thanks for all your help over the past year and a bit. It was great to >> meet you all! >> >> Cheers, >> >> Murray. >> > > Murray, > I wish you luck! ?Come on back to see us! > > Eric MOIN!!!!! Clint From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Apr 11 18:07:21 2009 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:07:21 +0300 Subject: F11 release notes ready for translation In-Reply-To: <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> References: <20090403060753.GK4662@calliope.phig.org> <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <6d4237680904111107he94d8bdsae63d2bbc2ca4f65@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 6:40 PM, Piotr Dr?g wrote: > Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users > would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English > users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to > collaborate and maintain release notes. When there are not enough resources for a 100% translation, our team usually leaves the less important/popular sections out of the translation. Users can read the important bits, and technical users giving a thorough read usually don't have a problem reading eg. about the kernel bits in English. It'd be nice to be able to mark a section as 'untranslated', and the final result will render a note box in that section saying eg. "The following section is not available in your language. The English (en_US) translation is shown instead." -? -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From ianweller at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 18:39:28 2009 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 13:39:28 -0500 Subject: thanks and bye for now In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0904101818t5adeb634ke05a57fe54a3c353@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0904101818t5adeb634ke05a57fe54a3c353@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090411183928.GA16259@gmail.com> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:18:22AM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > Hello, > > I recently changed roles at my day job, which now takes up a little > more time than before...I will not be around much or doing much for > Fedora docs, so I thought I would let you all know (in case anyone > noticed ;-) ). > > Thanks for all your help over the past year and a bit. It was great to > meet you all! > Was great to meet you too! Come back and say hi every now and then :) -- Ian Weller GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From piotrdrag at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 19:51:20 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 21:51:20 +0200 Subject: F11 release notes ready for translation In-Reply-To: <4818cd80904111136w639df187y74347956b8e1fcfb@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090403060753.GK4662@calliope.phig.org> <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> <20090411163118.GC17519@localhost.localdomain> <4818cd80904111136w639df187y74347956b8e1fcfb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49E0F4B8.3020400@gmail.com> Domingo Becker pisze: > I don't agree. > I think it's necessary to document those changes, in a summary at least. > Migration information is important too. > [...] > But now, is release notes read by all new users? > I don't think so. But it doesn't make it less important. > It should be read by users upgrading from previous releases, and I > think anaconda advices to do so. > You missed my point. It should contain migration information, advises about problematic package updates etc. But now it's mostly "package xy is updated to version 0.x", where this package isn't even in default install and it's minor release, not causing any problems when updating from previous one. Not mentioning that package xy is used only by a few people. And all of them are native speakers or speak English well (they have to if they use xy). > Probably. > But then, where will that information go? the wiki? > It should be somewhere! It's useful. > I propose that core informations would go to XML release notes, and others would go to the wiki (SIG pages or eg. Releases/11/ReleaseNotes/AmateurRadio), where they can be translated by those interested in them. > I guess we have so many untranslated string because of the change to > publican. It looks like release notes has been rewritten entirely. > I think number of new strings in this release is comparable to previous ones. That's not a problem for me either. -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From r.landmann at redhat.com Sat Apr 11 20:57:41 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Sun, 12 Apr 2009 06:57:41 +1000 Subject: F11 release notes ready for translation In-Reply-To: <20090411163118.GC17519@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090403060753.GK4662@calliope.phig.org> <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> <20090411163118.GC17519@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49E10445.7040008@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > The people who are editing release notes need to be aware of the needs > of translators, and make sure that the English used in the release > notes is simple enough to be understood by all readers, and translated > by all translators. > Absolutely; this is something that every technical writer needs to remain aware of constantly. Although sadly none of us are perfect, we generally love to receive feedback from readers that helps us to improve! :) One of the translators who works in the same office as me likes to point out that probably nobody else will ever read our work as closely and as thoroughly as the translators do; and of course, she is right. So feedback from the localisation teams is especially valuable to us -- we know that you have read every word! If there's a problem with a document or a section of a document, the writers need to know about it, so the feedback in this thread is really great. Also please remember that the most specific feedback is the most useful, so the examples that Piotr included in his original post are very helpful. If you have criticisms that you think are too specific to post to a whole mailing list, then you could send comments directly to the particular writer. If you don't know which writer was responsible for a particular document or section, just ask on fedora-docs-list or on the #fedora-docs channel. When draft documentation is complete, we writers generally make it available for review and comment by other writers and by developers. In future, when I make drafts of Fedora docs available, I will be sure to alert fedora-trans-list as well. Criticism received before string freeze is always going to be more valuable than criticism afterwards :) On that subject, I'd like to invite translators to look at the draft version of the Fedora 11 Installation Guide here -- http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/ (as I write this, it's only available in English, but I plan to make other languages available later today). Unfortunately, this is very late notice this time: there are only 48 hours left before we have to freeze the document and hand it over to you. It's therefore unlikely that big changes will be possible, but any and all feedback is very welcome if it makes the Fedora 12 version of the guide better, and anything that I can realistically fix in the next two days for Fedora 11, I will take care of as well. Cheers Ruediger From r.landmann at redhat.com Mon Apr 13 08:25:28 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:25:28 +1000 Subject: F11 release notes ready for translation In-Reply-To: <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090403060753.GK4662@calliope.phig.org> <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49E2F6F8.2020608@redhat.com> Given the discussion about the length and complexity of the Release Notes, I thought people might be interested in some statistics. I downloaded the individual branches for Fedora 7 through to Fedora 11 and ran the German po files through Publican successively (since the German translation appears to be practically complete in each version). The results show a general growth in the number of strings from each release to the next; however, the number of strings requiring translation in Fedora 11 is actually smaller than the number of strings requiring translation in Fedora 10 (and the Release Notes for Fedora 11 contain 10% fewer strings overall than the Fedora 10 Release Notes) Of course, this says nothing about the complexity of the material. Fedora 8: Total strings: 620 Strings unchanged from Fedora 7: 377 Fuzzy translations: 94 Untranslated strings: 149 Strings needing attention from translators: 243 Fedora 9: Total strings: 812 Strings unchanged from Fedora 8: 329 Fuzzy translations: 194 Untranslated strings: 289 Strings needing attention from translators: 483 Fedora 10: Total strings: 1080 Strings unchanged from Fedora 9: 141 Fuzzy translations: 409 Untranslated strings: 530 Strings needing attention from translators: 939 Fedora 11: Total strings: 963 Strings unchanged from Fedora 10: 89 Fuzzy translations: 186 Untranslated strings: 688 Strings needing attention from translators: 874 If anyone would like to see the results of the string matching, just send me an email. Also, if anyone would like to see the same analysis in a language other than German, I'm happy to do this for you as well. Cheers Ruediger PS: If anyone knows of a tool or method to gauge the comparative complexity of the texts, I'd be very interested to learn about it. From kramer.tim at cox.net Mon Apr 13 10:38:05 2009 From: kramer.tim at cox.net (Tim Kramer) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 06:38:05 -0400 Subject: User Guide Tasks In-Reply-To: <68784587-E083-4BF5-A199-9620AB88361A@gmail.com> References: <68784587-E083-4BF5-A199-9620AB88361A@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1239619085.17247.54.camel@desk> Do to my mom going to the emergency room, wasn't able to put in as much work as I should have. Following is a list of the number of "wordsmith" edits (suggestions embedded in the pages) and the pages the edits are on: 1 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_User_Guide_-_Introduction 4 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_User_Guide_-_The_Fedora_Desktops 8 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_User_Guide_-_Logging_into_the_Desktop 5 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_User_Guide_-_Tour_of_the_KDE_Desktop 2 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_User_Guide_-_Connecting_to_the_Internet Will continue to wade through the remaining pages and will update my user page, as time becomes available (i.e., will continue to "chip away" at it). V/R, Tim (joat) From kramer.tim at cox.net Mon Apr 13 11:05:59 2009 From: kramer.tim at cox.net (Tim Kramer) Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2009 07:05:59 -0400 Subject: User Guide Tasks In-Reply-To: <1239619085.17247.54.camel@desk> References: <68784587-E083-4BF5-A199-9620AB88361A@gmail.com> <1239619085.17247.54.camel@desk> Message-ID: <1239620759.17247.55.camel@desk> Hmm... Just busted myself too: "Due to" vice "Do to". Geesh! On Mon, 2009-04-13 at 06:38 -0400, Tim Kramer wrote: > Do to my mom going to the emergency room, wasn't able to put in as much > work as I should have. Following is a list of the number of "wordsmith" > edits (suggestions embedded in the pages) and the pages the edits are > on: > > 1 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_User_Guide_-_Introduction > 4 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_User_Guide_-_The_Fedora_Desktops > 8 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_User_Guide_-_Logging_into_the_Desktop > 5 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_User_Guide_-_Tour_of_the_KDE_Desktop > 2 > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_User_Guide_-_Connecting_to_the_Internet > > Will continue to wade through the remaining pages and will update my > user page, as time becomes available (i.e., will continue to "chip away" > at it). > > V/R, > Tim (joat) > From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Apr 14 16:28:29 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 14 Apr 2009 12:28:29 -0400 Subject: [Bug 495175] RFE: Octave (Request for Enhancement) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200904141628.n3EGSThQ011837@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495175 Bill Nottingham changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Version|unspecified |rawhide Component|Deployment_Guide |octave CC| |alexl at users.sourceforge.net | |, mmahut at redhat.com, | |notting at redhat.com, | |rakesh.pandit at gmail.com AssignedTo|mhideo at redhat.com |rakesh.pandit at gmail.com QAContact|rlerch at redhat.com |extras-qa at fedoraproject.org Product|Fedora Hosted Projects |Fedora -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Apr 15 04:53:14 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 15 Apr 2009 00:53:14 -0400 Subject: [Bug 495175] RFE: Octave (Request for Enhancement) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200904150453.n3F4rEwm027450@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=495175 Rakesh Pandit changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |CLOSED Resolution| |RAWHIDE --- Comment #1 from Rakesh Pandit 2009-04-15 00:53:14 EDT --- I already pushed that release -- last Sunday. * Sun Apr 12 2009 Rakesh Pandit - 6:3.0.5-1 - Updated to latest upstream (3.0.5) Thanks! -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From mike at l4m3.com Thu Apr 16 08:35:39 2009 From: mike at l4m3.com (Mike Danko) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 04:35:39 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction Message-ID: <1239870939.14027.15.camel@skrelnick> Hello all, I'm Mike Danko, here's the suggested email contents: I've done a lot of writing and very verbose documenting of the systems at my day job over the last 10 years, mostly covering RH/Fedora/Solaris/General System Administration topics for people with little-to-no experience with the systems themselves. Currently I'm working on a infrastructure and virtualization project (during the day) and I hope to bring some of the work I'm doing there into the public eye. I am a self proclaimed rubyist and general thinker it's hard to classify my "computer skills" -- I'll bend it any which way to solve a problem. I do have quite an extensive networking background which I've mostly purged from my mind over the last few years, but it can occasionally come up when a balance between systems and networks is called for. I have a real focus for excellent documentation and review, and I'm hoping to help in any way I can. - Mike mike at skrelnick:~$ gpg --fingerprint 517F2C19 pub 1024D/517F2C19 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] Key fingerprint = 1B89 6C30 7C61 0E61 E878 CA6D 6659 1093 517F 2C19 uid Mike Danko sub 2048g/A69A9B1E 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Thu Apr 16 09:13:50 2009 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:13:50 +0800 Subject: Self-Introduction In-Reply-To: <1239870939.14027.15.camel@skrelnick> References: <1239870939.14027.15.camel@skrelnick> Message-ID: <49E6F6CE.8020108@hidayahonline.org> On 04/16/2009 04:35 PM, Mike Danko wrote: > Hello all, > > I'm Mike Danko, here's the suggested email contents: > > I've done a lot of writing and very verbose documenting of the systems > at my day job over the last 10 years, mostly covering > RH/Fedora/Solaris/General System Administration topics for people with > little-to-no experience with the systems themselves. Currently I'm > working on a infrastructure and virtualization project (during the day) > and I hope to bring some of the work I'm doing there into the public > eye. > > I am a self proclaimed rubyist and general thinker it's hard to classify > my "computer skills" -- I'll bend it any which way to solve a problem. I > do have quite an extensive networking background which I've mostly > purged from my mind over the last few years, but it can occasionally > come up when a balance between systems and networks is called for. > > I have a real focus for excellent documentation and review, and I'm > hoping to help in any way I can. > > - Mike > > > mike at skrelnick:~$ gpg --fingerprint 517F2C19 > pub 1024D/517F2C19 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] > Key fingerprint = 1B89 6C30 7C61 0E61 E878 CA6D 6659 1093 517F > 2C19 > uid Mike Danko > sub 2048g/A69A9B1E 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] > > > Welcome, Mike! Nice to see you getting more involved. Maybe, whenever I get back to Columbus, we can have a mini Docs meetup. :D From rui.gouveia at globaltek.pt Sat Apr 11 18:07:44 2009 From: rui.gouveia at globaltek.pt (Rui Gouveia) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:07:44 +0100 Subject: F11 release notes ready for translation In-Reply-To: <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> References: <20090403060753.GK4662@calliope.phig.org> <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49E0DC70.4000203@globaltek.pt> Hi, I personally completely agree. Also, the Portuguese team decided, since the release notes is so big, that it's better to leave it 100% untranslated than just small pieces. Rui Gouveia Piotr Dr?g escreveu: > Paul W. Frields pisze: >> Just bumping this message up so translators can see it -- I've seen a >> number of commits coming in from Transifex, but not as many as usual. >> > > One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate > from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really > important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if > it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more > strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular > translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill > handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much > more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is > the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? > With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our > community. > > Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users > would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English > users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to > collaborate and maintain release notes. > > Just my 2 cents, > -- Rui Gouveia S?cio gerente GlobalTek - Solu??es Inform?ticas, Lda. Rua Augusto Luso, 121 4050-073 Porto T: +351 938 391 608 W: www.globaltek.pt AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE Esta mensagem e quaisquer ficheiros anexos a ela s?o confidenciais e destinam-se a uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade a quem s?o dirigidos. Se n?o ? o destinat?rio da mensagem ou a pessoa respons?vel pelo seu encaminhamento ao respectivo destinat?rio, fica informado de que recebeu esta mensagem por engano, e de que qualquer utiliza??o, distribui??o, reencaminhamento ou outra forma de revela??o a outrem, impress?o, ou c?pia desta mensagem ? expressamente proibido. Se recebeu esta mensagem por engano, dever? destrui-la, elimin?-la do sistema e informar o remetente ou a GlobalTek Lda. A GlobalTek Lda utiliza software anti-v?rus, no entanto, n?o obstante terem sido tomadas todas as precau??es, n?o pode garantir que a mensagem e seus anexos n?o cont?m v?rus. ?, assim, da responsabilidade do destinat?rio assegurar que esta mensagem e seus anexos s?o submetidos a detector de v?rus antes de serem utilizados. Alerta-se no entanto que as mensagens transmitidas por este meio podem ser interceptadas, corrompidas, perdidas, destru?das ou chegarem ao destino com atraso. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From rui.gouveia at globaltek.pt Sat Apr 11 18:12:16 2009 From: rui.gouveia at globaltek.pt (Rui Gouveia) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:12:16 +0100 Subject: F11 release notes ready for translation In-Reply-To: <20090411163118.GC17519@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090403060753.GK4662@calliope.phig.org> <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> <20090411163118.GC17519@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49E0DD80.7010403@globaltek.pt> +1 Paul W. Frields escreveu: > On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 05:40:04PM +0200, Piotr Dr?g wrote: > >> Paul W. Frields pisze: >> >>> Just bumping this message up so translators can see it -- I've seen a >>> number of commits coming in from Transifex, but not as many as usual. >>> >>> >> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate >> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really >> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if >> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more >> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular >> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill >> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much >> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is >> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? >> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our >> community. >> >> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users >> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English >> users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to >> collaborate and maintain release notes. >> > > I tend to agree with you, Piotr. I think that SIG pages on the wiki > are more appropriate for explanations of esoteric packages, and that > the release notes should feature information that is going to be > important (1) to general users, and (2) for migrating from one release > to another. So for example, warning people of an important change in > a database that requires action on their part is appropriate, while > saying "we now have package X" is not. That's my opinion, at least. > > The people who are editing release notes need to be aware of the needs > of translators, and make sure that the English used in the release > notes is simple enough to be understood by all readers, and translated > by all translators. > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > -- > Fedora-trans-list mailing list > Fedora-trans-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list -- Rui Gouveia S?cio gerente GlobalTek - Solu??es Inform?ticas, Lda. Rua Augusto Luso, 121 4050-073 Porto T: +351 938 391 608 W: www.globaltek.pt AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE Esta mensagem e quaisquer ficheiros anexos a ela s?o confidenciais e destinam-se a uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade a quem s?o dirigidos. Se n?o ? o destinat?rio da mensagem ou a pessoa respons?vel pelo seu encaminhamento ao respectivo destinat?rio, fica informado de que recebeu esta mensagem por engano, e de que qualquer utiliza??o, distribui??o, reencaminhamento ou outra forma de revela??o a outrem, impress?o, ou c?pia desta mensagem ? expressamente proibido. Se recebeu esta mensagem por engano, dever? destrui-la, elimin?-la do sistema e informar o remetente ou a GlobalTek Lda. A GlobalTek Lda utiliza software anti-v?rus, no entanto, n?o obstante terem sido tomadas todas as precau??es, n?o pode garantir que a mensagem e seus anexos n?o cont?m v?rus. ?, assim, da responsabilidade do destinat?rio assegurar que esta mensagem e seus anexos s?o submetidos a detector de v?rus antes de serem utilizados. Alerta-se no entanto que as mensagens transmitidas por este meio podem ser interceptadas, corrompidas, perdidas, destru?das ou chegarem ao destino com atraso. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 259 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From domingobecker at gmail.com Sat Apr 11 18:36:26 2009 From: domingobecker at gmail.com (Domingo Becker) Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:36:26 -0300 Subject: F11 release notes ready for translation In-Reply-To: <20090411163118.GC17519@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090403060753.GK4662@calliope.phig.org> <20090409123422.GD4211@localhost.localdomain> <49E0B9D4.2050705@gmail.com> <20090411163118.GC17519@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4818cd80904111136w639df187y74347956b8e1fcfb@mail.gmail.com> >> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate >> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really >> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if >> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more >> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular >> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill >> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much >> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is >> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? >> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our >> community. I don't agree. I think it's necessary to document those changes, in a summary at least. Migration information is important too. If there are phrases the team doesn't understand, should be left in English. Someone will surely file a bug with the correct translation. It encourages other people to get involved. >> >> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users >> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English >> users!), resulting in wider audience. Probably. But then, where will that information go? the wiki? It should be somewhere! It's useful. >> It would be also easier to >> collaborate and maintain release notes. I guess we have so many untranslated string because of the change to publican. It looks like release notes has been rewritten entirely. +1 to the untranslated section mark. Translations should be used even if they are 30%. I usually translate first the information useful for the majority of users, then the rest. But now, is release notes read by all new users? I don't think so. But it doesn't make it less important. It should be read by users upgrading from previous releases, and I think anaconda advices to do so. Having the release notes this way we have now, makes users take conscience of how big the changes are since the last release, no more than 6 months ago. You don't see this amount of improvements in other OSs. Maybe a summary, but please keep up the good quality it used to have. Just my 2 cents. Domingo Becker (es) From vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi Thu Apr 16 13:03:42 2009 From: vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi (Ville-Pekka Vainio) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:03:42 +0300 Subject: Release Notes entry for the moin package Message-ID: <1239887022.3111.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi Docs people, I recently took over as the moin package maintainer and I've updated it to 1.8.2 in F11, which is quite a bump from 1.6.3 in F-10 and it might need an entry in the Release Notes. Here's a list of things that might be worth mentioning, could someone from the Docs team help make this a real release note? :) - Lots of changes, users should start by going through /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/CHANGES - Upstream documentation on how to update is in /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/UPDATE.html - Instructions on how to migrate the data directory are in /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/README.migration - this file talks about using the www-data user for running the migration, in Fedora there is no such user, probably the best option is to run the script as root and then do a chown -R apache:apache for the data directory afterwards. - The documentation on how to set up moin in Fedora is updated, it's at /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/README-rpm - Users should make sure they update the configuration files, such as wikiconfig.py, the 'server driver', such as moin.cgi, the underlay directory and possibly the htdocs directory for their wiki instance. -- Ville-Pekka Vainio From jess.a.bybee at gmail.com Thu Apr 16 18:15:39 2009 From: jess.a.bybee at gmail.com (Jess Bybee) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 11:15:39 -0700 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 19 In-Reply-To: <20090416160052.7238461A637@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20090416160052.7238461A637@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <7e41df1c0904161115n6fa12026l5cc9b35012d2b9fd@mail.gmail.com> my poor beloved! Jess On Thu, Apr 16, 2009 at 9:00 AM, wrote: > Send fedora-docs-list mailing list submissions to > ? ? ? ?fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > ? ? ? ?https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ? ? ? ?fedora-docs-list-request at redhat.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ? ? ? ?fedora-docs-list-owner at redhat.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of fedora-docs-list digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > ? 1. Self-Introduction (Mike Danko) > ? 2. Re: Self-Introduction (Basil Mohamed Gohar) > ? 3. Re: F11 release notes ready for translation (Rui Gouveia) > ? 4. Re: F11 release notes ready for translation (Rui Gouveia) > ? 5. Re: F11 release notes ready for translation (Domingo Becker) > ? 6. Release Notes entry for the moin package (Ville-Pekka Vainio) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 04:35:39 -0400 > From: Mike Danko > Subject: Self-Introduction > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Message-ID: <1239870939.14027.15.camel at skrelnick> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Hello all, > > I'm Mike Danko, here's the suggested email contents: > > I've done a lot of writing and very verbose documenting of the systems > at my day job over the last 10 years, mostly covering > RH/Fedora/Solaris/General System Administration topics for people with > little-to-no experience with the systems themselves. Currently I'm > working on a infrastructure and virtualization project (during the day) > and I hope to bring some of the work I'm doing there into the public > eye. > > I am a self proclaimed rubyist and general thinker it's hard to classify > my "computer skills" -- I'll bend it any which way to solve a problem. I > do have quite an extensive networking background which I've mostly > purged from my mind over the last few years, but it can occasionally > come up when a balance between systems and networks is called for. > > I have a real focus for excellent documentation and review, and I'm > hoping to help in any way I can. > > - Mike > > > mike at skrelnick:~$ gpg --fingerprint 517F2C19 > pub ? 1024D/517F2C19 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] > ? ? ?Key fingerprint = 1B89 6C30 7C61 0E61 E878 ?CA6D 6659 1093 517F > 2C19 > uid ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Mike Danko > sub ? 2048g/A69A9B1E 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 17:13:50 +0800 > From: Basil Mohamed Gohar > Subject: Re: Self-Introduction > To: For participants of the Documentation Project > ? ? ? ? > Message-ID: <49E6F6CE.8020108 at hidayahonline.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > On 04/16/2009 04:35 PM, Mike Danko wrote: >> Hello all, >> >> I'm Mike Danko, here's the suggested email contents: >> >> I've done a lot of writing and very verbose documenting of the systems >> at my day job over the last 10 years, mostly covering >> RH/Fedora/Solaris/General System Administration topics for people with >> little-to-no experience with the systems themselves. Currently I'm >> working on a infrastructure and virtualization project (during the day) >> and I hope to bring some of the work I'm doing there into the public >> eye. >> >> I am a self proclaimed rubyist and general thinker it's hard to classify >> my "computer skills" -- I'll bend it any which way to solve a problem. I >> do have quite an extensive networking background which I've mostly >> purged from my mind over the last few years, but it can occasionally >> come up when a balance between systems and networks is called for. >> >> I have a real focus for excellent documentation and review, and I'm >> hoping to help in any way I can. >> >> - Mike >> >> >> mike at skrelnick:~$ gpg --fingerprint 517F2C19 >> pub ? 1024D/517F2C19 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] >> ? ? ? ?Key fingerprint = 1B89 6C30 7C61 0E61 E878 ?CA6D 6659 1093 517F >> 2C19 >> uid ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Mike Danko >> sub ? 2048g/A69A9B1E 2009-03-24 [expires: 2010-03-24] >> >> >> > Welcome, Mike! ?Nice to see you getting more involved. ?Maybe, whenever > I get back to Columbus, we can have a mini Docs meetup. :D > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:07:44 +0100 > From: Rui Gouveia > Subject: Re: F11 release notes ready for translation > To: piotrdrag at gmail.com, ? ? ? ?Fedora Translation Project List > ? ? ? ? > Cc: fedora-docs-list > Message-ID: <49E0DC70.4000203 at globaltek.pt> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi, > > I personally completely agree. > Also, the Portuguese team decided, since the release notes is so big, > that it's better to leave it 100% untranslated than just small pieces. > > Rui Gouveia > > Piotr Dr?g escreveu: >> Paul W. Frields pisze: >>> Just bumping this message up so translators can see it -- I've seen a >>> number of commits coming in from Transifex, but not as many as usual. >>> >> >> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate >> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really >> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if >> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more >> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular >> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill >> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much >> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is >> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? >> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our >> community. >> >> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users >> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English >> users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to >> collaborate and maintain release notes. >> >> Just my 2 cents, >> > > -- > Rui Gouveia > S?cio gerente > > GlobalTek - Solu??es Inform?ticas, Lda. > Rua Augusto Luso, 121 > 4050-073 Porto > > T: +351 938 391 608 > W: www.globaltek.pt > > AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE > > Esta mensagem e quaisquer ficheiros anexos a ela s?o confidenciais e > destinam-se a uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade a quem s?o > dirigidos. Se n?o ? o destinat?rio da mensagem ou a pessoa respons?vel > pelo seu encaminhamento ao respectivo destinat?rio, fica informado de > que recebeu esta mensagem por engano, e de que qualquer utiliza??o, > distribui??o, reencaminhamento ou outra forma de revela??o a outrem, > impress?o, ou c?pia desta mensagem ? expressamente proibido. Se > recebeu esta mensagem por engano, dever? destrui-la, elimin?-la do > sistema e informar o remetente ou a GlobalTek Lda. ?A GlobalTek Lda > utiliza software anti-v?rus, no entanto, n?o obstante terem sido > tomadas todas as precau??es, n?o pode garantir que a mensagem e seus > anexos n?o cont?m v?rus. ?, assim, da responsabilidade do destinat?rio > assegurar que esta mensagem e seus anexos s?o submetidos a detector de > v?rus antes de serem utilizados. Alerta-se no entanto que as mensagens > transmitidas por este meio podem ser interceptadas, corrompidas, > perdidas, destru?das ou chegarem ao destino com atraso. > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 259 bytes > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090411/73b4e890/signature.bin > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 19:12:16 +0100 > From: Rui Gouveia > Subject: Re: F11 release notes ready for translation > To: fedora-trans-list at redhat.com, ? ? ? fedora-docs-list > ? ? ? ? > Message-ID: <49E0DD80.7010403 at globaltek.pt> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > +1 > > Paul W. Frields escreveu: >> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 05:40:04PM +0200, Piotr Dr?g wrote: >> >>> Paul W. Frields pisze: >>> >>>> Just bumping this message up so translators can see it -- I've seen a >>>> number of commits coming in from Transifex, but not as many as usual. >>>> >>>> >>> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate >>> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really >>> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if >>> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more >>> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular >>> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill >>> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much >>> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is >>> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? >>> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our >>> community. >>> >>> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users >>> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English >>> users!), resulting in wider audience. It would be also easier to >>> collaborate and maintain release notes. >>> >> >> I tend to agree with you, Piotr. ?I think that SIG pages on the wiki >> are more appropriate for explanations of esoteric packages, and that >> the release notes should feature information that is going to be >> important (1) to general users, and (2) for migrating from one release >> to another. ?So for example, warning people of an important change in >> a database that requires action on their part is appropriate, while >> saying "we now have package X" is not. ?That's my opinion, at least. >> >> The people who are editing release notes need to be aware of the needs >> of translators, and make sure that the English used in the release >> notes is simple enough to be understood by all readers, and translated >> by all translators. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> -- >> Fedora-trans-list mailing list >> Fedora-trans-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list > > -- > Rui Gouveia > S?cio gerente > > GlobalTek - Solu??es Inform?ticas, Lda. > Rua Augusto Luso, 121 > 4050-073 Porto > > T: +351 938 391 608 > W: www.globaltek.pt > > AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDADE > > Esta mensagem e quaisquer ficheiros anexos a ela s?o confidenciais e > destinam-se a uso exclusivo da pessoa ou entidade a quem s?o > dirigidos. Se n?o ? o destinat?rio da mensagem ou a pessoa respons?vel > pelo seu encaminhamento ao respectivo destinat?rio, fica informado de > que recebeu esta mensagem por engano, e de que qualquer utiliza??o, > distribui??o, reencaminhamento ou outra forma de revela??o a outrem, > impress?o, ou c?pia desta mensagem ? expressamente proibido. Se > recebeu esta mensagem por engano, dever? destrui-la, elimin?-la do > sistema e informar o remetente ou a GlobalTek Lda. ?A GlobalTek Lda > utiliza software anti-v?rus, no entanto, n?o obstante terem sido > tomadas todas as precau??es, n?o pode garantir que a mensagem e seus > anexos n?o cont?m v?rus. ?, assim, da responsabilidade do destinat?rio > assegurar que esta mensagem e seus anexos s?o submetidos a detector de > v?rus antes de serem utilizados. Alerta-se no entanto que as mensagens > transmitidas por este meio podem ser interceptadas, corrompidas, > perdidas, destru?das ou chegarem ao destino com atraso. > > > -------------- next part -------------- > A non-text attachment was scrubbed... > Name: signature.asc > Type: application/pgp-signature > Size: 259 bytes > Desc: OpenPGP digital signature > Url : https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090411/6eeb3bb5/signature.bin > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sat, 11 Apr 2009 15:36:26 -0300 > From: Domingo Becker > Subject: Re: F11 release notes ready for translation > To: Fedora Translation Project List , > ? ? ? ?fedora-docs-list > Message-ID: > ? ? ? ?<4818cd80904111136w639df187y74347956b8e1fcfb at mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > >>> One reason could be that release notes are more difficult to translate >>> from release to release. Now it's less "what's new and what's really >>> important", and more "describe *every* new or updated package, even if >>> it's used only by small group of people". So we have more and more >>> strings, using words almost impossible to understand by regular >>> translators (what the hell is "flattening the netlist" or "drill >>> handling" and why the typical user should care?). And there are much >>> more of that kind, even more cryptic to us. Do we *really* need this? Is >>> the big AmateurRadio section read by anyone else then radio amateurs? >>> With all the respect, I don't think they are significant part of our >>> community. > > I don't agree. > I think it's necessary to document those changes, in a summary at least. > Migration information is important too. > If there are phrases the team doesn't understand, should be left in > English. Someone will surely file a bug with the correct translation. > It encourages other people to get involved. > >>> >>> Smaller release notes containing only information for majority of users >>> would be easier to translate and understand (also for native English >>> users!), resulting in wider audience. > > Probably. > But then, where will that information go? the wiki? > It should be somewhere! It's useful. > >>> It would be also easier to >>> collaborate and maintain release notes. > > I guess we have so many untranslated string because of the change to > publican. It looks like release notes has been rewritten entirely. > > +1 to the untranslated section mark. > Translations should be used even if they are 30%. > I usually translate first the information useful for the majority of > users, then the rest. > > But now, is release notes read by all new users? > I don't think so. But it doesn't make it less important. > It should be read by users upgrading from previous releases, and I > think anaconda advices to do so. > > Having the release notes this way we have now, makes users take > conscience of how big the changes are since the last release, no more > than 6 months ago. You don't see this amount of improvements in other > OSs. > > Maybe a summary, but please keep up the good quality it used to have. > Just my 2 cents. > > Domingo Becker (es) > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 16:03:42 +0300 > From: Ville-Pekka Vainio > Subject: Release Notes entry for the moin package > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Message-ID: <1239887022.3111.26.camel at localhost.localdomain> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Hi Docs people, > > I recently took over as the moin package maintainer and I've updated it > to 1.8.2 in F11, which is quite a bump from 1.6.3 in F-10 and it might > need an entry in the Release Notes. > > Here's a list of things that might be worth mentioning, could someone > from the Docs team help make this a real release note? :) > > - Lots of changes, users should start by going > ?through /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/CHANGES > > - Upstream documentation on how to update is > ?in /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/UPDATE.html > > - Instructions on how to migrate the data directory are > ?in /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/README.migration - this file talks about > ?using the www-data user for running the migration, in Fedora there is > ?no such user, probably the best option is to run the script as root > ?and then do a chown -R apache:apache for the data directory > ?afterwards. > > - The documentation on how to set up moin in Fedora is updated, it's > ?at /usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.*/README-rpm > > - Users should make sure they update the configuration files, such as > ?wikiconfig.py, the 'server driver', such as moin.cgi, the underlay > ?directory and possibly the htdocs directory for their wiki instance. > > > -- > Ville-Pekka Vainio > > > > ------------------------------ > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > End of fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 62, Issue 19 > ************************************************ > From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Apr 17 01:50:25 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 16 Apr 2009 21:50:25 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction References: <1239870939.14027.15.camel@skrelnick> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Danko" To: Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:35 AM Subject: Self-Introduction > Hello all, > > I'm Mike Danko, here's the suggested email contents: Hi Mike. Welcome aboard. --McD From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Apr 17 13:50:29 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 09:50:29 -0400 Subject: Awaiting Docs Membership? Message-ID: <38D9D52C6B5C4026B0472394B1545262@Aidan> There are a few people who have applied for membership in the Docs group over the past few weeks. However, Mike Danko was the only one who submitted a self-introduction, as far as I can tell. If you, in fact, have posted a self-intro, please send a note to Eric or myself. Perhaps your email address is different enough from your FAS usercode that we didn't catch it. If you haven't done that yet, please get on it quickly. We are thinking that perhaps two weeks or so is enough time for someone to sit in the queue before we decide that their application was a mistake, or they lost interest, or whatever. At least a couple of those names are just about that old. If you applied, and then decided maybe it wasn't for you after all, that's fine, but if you could let us know then we could keep the account maintained. And if you are sitting on the fence, then by all means, apply for membership in the docs group, post your self introduction, and join in. The docs group really is a good gang of folks. You won't be sorry. --McD From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Apr 17 14:05:11 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 10:05:11 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction References: <1239870939.14027.15.camel@skrelnick> Message-ID: <0D920902779741F6B89670543020CBE1@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Danko" To: Sent: Thursday, April 16, 2009 4:35 AM Subject: Self-Introduction > I have a real focus for excellent documentation and review, and I'm > hoping to help in any way I can. Mike Now that you have been approved, probably the best move is to hang around on #Fedora-Docs and get to know the folks. There are a lot of things, big and small, that need to get done in advance of F11, and we can use all the help we can get. Plus, we are noodling how to address F12. So come on and join in. If you are a little uneasy about getting started in the public glare, feel free to email myself or Eric directly, or /msg us on IRC. Because this is a community project, we would prefer to do as much as possible here on this list where there is a record and everyone can see what is happening. however, because of it's interactive nature, a lot more actually gets accomplished on IRC. The transcripts of our weekly meetings do get posted here, but the casual conversations that cause a lot of things to happen don't. But those conversations are open to everyone, because we want to take advantage of as many heads as possible. So feel free to jump in. --McD From simon at zikula.org Fri Apr 17 17:29:09 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:29:09 +0100 Subject: CMS Progress Message-ID: <011d01c9bf82$0508db50$0f1a91f0$@org> Hi All, I just wanted to pop up and say that I am still around, and still working (slowly) on the Zikula CMS instance for Fedora. Unfortunately, a death in my family has taken up a great deal of time for me over the last month or so, and that combined with other academic commitments have delayed me more than I would have liked. I'll try and get everything back on course over the next few weeks. Please don't think I've disappeared! Simon From marcferguson at gmail.com Fri Apr 17 17:53:42 2009 From: marcferguson at gmail.com (Marc Ferguson) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 13:53:42 -0400 Subject: CMS Progress In-Reply-To: <011d01c9bf82$0508db50$0f1a91f0$@org> References: <011d01c9bf82$0508db50$0f1a91f0$@org> Message-ID: On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > Hi All, > > I just wanted to pop up and say that I am still around, and still working > (slowly) on the Zikula CMS instance for Fedora. Unfortunately, a death in > my family has taken up a great deal of time for me over the last month or > so, and that combined with other academic commitments have delayed me more > than I would have liked. > > I'll try and get everything back on course over the next few weeks. Please > don't think I've disappeared! > > > Simon > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Hi Simon, I'm not in the "know" about this CMS, but you've peeked my curiosity. What is Fedora doing with a Zikula instance? Thanks. -- Marc F. www.fergytech.com Registered Linux User: #410978 "When life gives me lemons... I make Linuxaide, hmm good stuff!" -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mikkel at infinity-ltd.com Sat Apr 18 02:04:06 2009 From: mikkel at infinity-ltd.com (Mikkel L. Ellertson) Date: Fri, 17 Apr 2009 21:04:06 -0500 Subject: Reset root password In-Reply-To: <49D049C6.9000303@fedoraproject.org> References: <49CEFAA4.4040600@fedoraproject.org> <49CFB671.7070404@infinity-ltd.com> <49CFC99A.8070709@fedoraproject.org> <49CFD2CF.7050703@infinity-ltd.com> <49D049C6.9000303@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <49E93516.6040005@infinity-ltd.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > >> Well, I can not edit it directly, but here is the text for an >> un-encrypted file system. I hope to have time to create a virtual >> machine with an encrypted file system sometime this week. > > Added to > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Reset_Forgotten_Root_Password > > If you find the steps to recover from a encrypted hard disk, let me > know. IIRC, the rescue mode handles it very well. Thanks > > Rahul > I am sorry it took so long to get back to you. The only difference with an encrypted partition is that it asks you for the pass phrase after it asks you if you want to mount the file systems. If you have more then one encrypted partition, you have the option of checking the box indicating that it is the global pass phrase, or entering a pass phrase for each encrypted partition. Mikkel PS - I like the updated directions. -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Apr 18 18:45:57 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 00:15:57 +0530 Subject: Reset root password In-Reply-To: <49E93516.6040005@infinity-ltd.com> References: <49CEFAA4.4040600@fedoraproject.org> <49CFB671.7070404@infinity-ltd.com> <49CFC99A.8070709@fedoraproject.org> <49CFD2CF.7050703@infinity-ltd.com> <49D049C6.9000303@fedoraproject.org> <49E93516.6040005@infinity-ltd.com> Message-ID: <49EA1FE5.5000902@fedoraproject.org> On 04/18/2009 07:34 AM, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > I am sorry it took so long to get back to you. The only difference > with an encrypted partition is that it asks you for the pass phrase > after it asks you if you want to mount the file systems. If you have > more then one encrypted partition, you have the option of checking > the box indicating that it is the global pass phrase, or entering a > pass phrase for each encrypted partition. I have added a note. Thanks for confirming. Rahul From ianweller at gmail.com Sat Apr 18 18:57:04 2009 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Sat, 18 Apr 2009 13:57:04 -0500 Subject: mwlib and odfpy Message-ID: <20090418185704.GD19071@gmail.com> Just checked all my package versions and odfpy is up to 0.9 while mwlib is up to 0.10.3. What's the status on the odfpy07 compat package, and can somebody help me test the latest versions of these two packages? -- Ian Weller GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From danielsmw at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 15:43:32 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 11:43:32 -0400 Subject: mwlib and odfpy In-Reply-To: <20090418185704.GD19071@gmail.com> References: <20090418185704.GD19071@gmail.com> Message-ID: Ian, > Just checked all my package versions and odfpy is up to 0.9 while > mwlib > is up to 0.10.3. What's the status on the odfpy07 compat package, and > can somebody help me test the latest versions of these two packages? odfpy07 is packaged, but hasn't been reviewed/accepted. It has a review request on bugzilla, but that's about the extent of it. I was under the impression that we didn't even need it anymore because the newer mwlib would be able to handle the newer odfpy. - Matthew From ianweller at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 17:37:37 2009 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:37:37 -0500 Subject: mwlib and odfpy In-Reply-To: References: <20090418185704.GD19071@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090419173737.GA21907@gmail.com> On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 11:43:32AM -0400, Matthew Daniels wrote: > odfpy07 is packaged, but hasn't been reviewed/accepted. It has a review > request on bugzilla, but that's about the extent of it. I was under the > impression that we didn't even need it anymore because the newer mwlib > would be able to handle the newer odfpy. > That's not true anymore, unfortunately. -- Ian Weller GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wolfdreamwalker at hotmail.com Sun Apr 19 20:32:51 2009 From: wolfdreamwalker at hotmail.com (Wolf DreamWalker) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 16:32:51 -0400 Subject: Free Books In-Reply-To: <49DA8278.3060209@fedoraproject.org> References: <49DA8278.3060209@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: Thanks Rahul I'm totally new to Linux so these should help a lot Wolf > Date: Tue, 7 Apr 2009 04:00:16 +0530 > From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Subject: Free Books > > Hi > > Listing of free Linux related books that might be of interest here. > > http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20090405061458383/20oftheBestFreeLinuxBooks-Part1.html > > http://www.tectonic.co.za/?p=4491 > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list _________________________________________________________________ Reinvent how you stay in touch with the new Windows Live Messenger. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9650731 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From danielsmw at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 22:07:43 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Sun, 19 Apr 2009 18:07:43 -0400 Subject: mwlib and odfpy In-Reply-To: <20090419173737.GA21907@gmail.com> References: <20090418185704.GD19071@gmail.com> <20090419173737.GA21907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <27310AF5-96AA-4D2F-88E1-18F17DC66F96@gmail.com> If anyone wants to do anything with it, here's the stuff for odfpy07: The SRPM and spec file: http://fedorapeople.org/~danielsmw/odfpy07/ The review request: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=491946 Matthew On Apr 19, 2009, at 1:37 PM, Ian Weller wrote: > On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 11:43:32AM -0400, Matthew Daniels wrote: >> odfpy07 is packaged, but hasn't been reviewed/accepted. It has a >> review >> request on bugzilla, but that's about the extent of it. I was >> under the >> impression that we didn't even need it anymore because the newer >> mwlib >> would be able to handle the newer odfpy. >> > That's not true anymore, unfortunately. > > -- > Ian Weller > GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sun Apr 19 23:00:12 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 04:30:12 +0530 Subject: man page for su Message-ID: <78323d480904191600m63fdc1f0y7db7d5058dd18c8d@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 In a recent discussion it was pointed out that the man page for 'su' is badly written. For example, the difference between "# su abc" and "#su - abc" does not come out clearly. I think we should modify it. What do you say? Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAknrrdwACgkQunMISzvdfU4RcgCfYdXI2HRexzWzu6OTxLVgqUox jfMAnRI8Opiw+9dkCUdHujgO7pZLCZQr =+Lt2 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Apr 20 03:50:50 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 09:20:50 +0530 Subject: man page for su In-Reply-To: <78323d480904191600m63fdc1f0y7db7d5058dd18c8d@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480904191600m63fdc1f0y7db7d5058dd18c8d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49EBF11A.5070100@fedoraproject.org> On 04/20/2009 04:30 AM, Mani A wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > In a recent discussion it was pointed out that the man page for 'su' > is badly written. > For example, the difference between > "# su abc" and "#su - abc" does not come out clearly. > I think we should modify it. What do you say? Note that in Fedora 10 onwards, the path has been modified so ther eis no effective difference between su and su - by default anymore. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/SbinSanity If you think, it needs to be clarified, file a bug report with the suggested wording. Rahul From a.badger at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 14:20:55 2009 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 07:20:55 -0700 Subject: mwlib and odfpy In-Reply-To: <20090419173737.GA21907@gmail.com> References: <20090418185704.GD19071@gmail.com> <20090419173737.GA21907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49EC84C7.80400@gmail.com> Ian Weller wrote: > On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 11:43:32AM -0400, Matthew Daniels wrote: >> odfpy07 is packaged, but hasn't been reviewed/accepted. It has a review >> request on bugzilla, but that's about the extent of it. I was under the >> impression that we didn't even need it anymore because the newer mwlib >> would be able to handle the newer odfpy. >> > That's not true anymore, unfortunately. > What's needed? Does it need porting to odfpy-0.9, was the previous patch rejected upstream, or something else? -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 22:24:27 2009 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 17:24:27 -0500 Subject: mwlib and odfpy In-Reply-To: <49EC84C7.80400@gmail.com> References: <20090418185704.GD19071@gmail.com> <20090419173737.GA21907@gmail.com> <49EC84C7.80400@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090420222427.GA14196@gmail.com> On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 07:20:55AM -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > Ian Weller wrote: > > On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 11:43:32AM -0400, Matthew Daniels wrote: > >> odfpy07 is packaged, but hasn't been reviewed/accepted. It has a review > >> request on bugzilla, but that's about the extent of it. I was under the > >> impression that we didn't even need it anymore because the newer mwlib > >> would be able to handle the newer odfpy. > >> > > That's not true anymore, unfortunately. > > > > What's needed? Does it need porting to odfpy-0.9, was the previous patch > rejected upstream, or something else? > Previous patch was rejected because of another problem that arose. http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/ticket/567 -- Ian Weller GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Mon Apr 20 23:00:53 2009 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 16:00:53 -0700 Subject: mwlib and odfpy In-Reply-To: <20090420222427.GA14196@gmail.com> References: <20090418185704.GD19071@gmail.com> <20090419173737.GA21907@gmail.com> <49EC84C7.80400@gmail.com> <20090420222427.GA14196@gmail.com> Message-ID: <49ECFEA5.8040902@gmail.com> Ian Weller wrote: > On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 07:20:55AM -0700, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >> Ian Weller wrote: >>> On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 11:43:32AM -0400, Matthew Daniels wrote: >>>> odfpy07 is packaged, but hasn't been reviewed/accepted. It has a review >>>> request on bugzilla, but that's about the extent of it. I was under the >>>> impression that we didn't even need it anymore because the newer mwlib >>>> would be able to handle the newer odfpy. >>>> >>> That's not true anymore, unfortunately. >>> >> What's needed? Does it need porting to odfpy-0.9, was the previous patch >> rejected upstream, or something else? >> > Previous patch was rejected because of another problem that arose. > http://code.pediapress.com/wiki/ticket/567 > New patch attached to our bugzilla which fixes that problem: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=486678 ianweller will kick it upstream. Note that I don't have data to test mw-render. If someone else does, that would cut down on the round-trip time to send these to upstream and back. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Apr 21 01:39:20 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 2009 21:39:20 -0400 Subject: Help Wanted Testing Message-ID: <3BD76A3E12BF482B95264C08A855CDAB@Aidan> I would appreciate it if another couple sets of eyes could install and check the Preview release notes. Probably it is best to do it on a LiveUSB or VM since the release notes cannot easily be uninstalled. Download the RPM from jjmcd.fedorapeople.org yum --nogpgcheck localinstall fedora-release-notes-10.93.0-1.fc10.noarch.rpm Check System->Help and System->About Fedora. Log on in those languages that are translated (some only partial) and try the same: Chinese (Simplified) Dutch German Greek Marathi Oriya Polish Portuguese Punjabi Spanish Swedish (Sweden) Telugu Oriya seems to break and this appears to be related to yelp bug 485528, but the other languages should show up at least partially in their language. Lots of other language codes are in the rpm, but they are largely untranslated. The srpm is also there for the curious, but becasue the rpmbuild runs Publican against umpteen languages, the rpmbuild takes a while. --McD From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Tue Apr 21 20:19:13 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 01:49:13 +0530 Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10903210504q1bb67763jc4ec0db41bd053ad@mail.gmail.com> <91B4D2D4-702C-49EA-9278-720EB5B44724@gmail.com> <146c63b10903220720j7cddc9b5hcba8c71f83b7925d@mail.gmail.com> <20090324195934.GF16319@calliope.phig.org> <146c63b10903241344ybcd625crb8cb189da55dc3b1@mail.gmail.com> <20090325230109.GK16319@calliope.phig.org> <20090326144236.GC10723@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <146c63b10904211319h5f919b8vcf2c70ea9938f8dc@mail.gmail.com> Hello! The proposal got selected for GSoC ^_^ . Yaakov is my mentor and Quaid is my Technical Advisor. Thank you very much for helping me draft a good proposal. The next step now is to choose a subset of DocBook XML tags which are most often used by Fedora Docs so that they can be implemented first. I will start reading the DTDs used in Publican. If any one would like to put forth an opinion in this matter it would be greatly appreciated! Thanks and regards, Satya From tromey at redhat.com Wed Apr 22 00:41:02 2009 From: tromey at redhat.com (Tom Tromey) Date: Tue, 21 Apr 2009 18:41:02 -0600 Subject: Archer release notes Message-ID: Is it too late to add release notes? I wanted to add a little warning about GDB, but then when I looked I could not find any mention of GDB in the release notes. (I expected the release notes from the Archer project page to be automatically brought in... but I neglected to check, sorry about that.) If it is not too late, the notes from that page are still ok: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Archer#Release_Notes The addition I wanted to make is a warning to the effect that the Python API should be considered unstable. Something like: WARNING: The Python API to GDB is still under development. We cannot currently guarantee that future revisions to the API will remain compatible. thanks, Tom From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 17:35:06 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 13:35:06 -0400 Subject: Bugs in relnotes? Message-ID: <20090422173424.GE6404@localhost.localdomain> https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2009-April/msg00106.html https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2009-April/msg00107.html I'm not sure if Domingo filed these as bugs or reported them elsewhere, so I wanted to alert the Docs team to these issues in case people weren't already signed up on fedora-trans-list, which is the mailing list for global translation team issues (as opposed to the language-specific team issues). -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 22 22:34:29 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 18:34:29 -0400 Subject: Tonight's Meeting Message-ID: Today has been crazy and tonight isn't looking much better. I may not be able to make tonight's meeting. Can someone please run the meeting for me if I'm not there? Thanks, Eric From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Apr 22 23:19:08 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:19:08 -0400 Subject: Tonight's Meeting References: Message-ID: <8D6BA8BEF79F42248192979CF6C59387@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 6:34 PM Subject: Tonight's Meeting > Today has been crazy and tonight isn't looking much better. I may not > be able to make tonight's meeting. Can someone please run the meeting > for me if I'm not there? wilco --McD From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 22 23:20:48 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:20:48 -0400 Subject: Tonight's Meeting In-Reply-To: <8D6BA8BEF79F42248192979CF6C59387@Aidan> References: <8D6BA8BEF79F42248192979CF6C59387@Aidan> Message-ID: Thanks John. I pinged you earlier on IRC but no joy. On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 19:19, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 6:34 PM > Subject: Tonight's Meeting > > >> Today has been crazy and tonight isn't looking much better. ?I may not >> be able to make tonight's meeting. ?Can someone please run the meeting >> for me if I'm not there? > > wilco > > --McD > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Apr 22 23:25:54 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:25:54 -0400 Subject: Tonight's Meeting References: <8D6BA8BEF79F42248192979CF6C59387@Aidan> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:20 PM Subject: Re: Tonight's Meeting > Thanks John. I pinged you earlier on IRC but no joy. Yeah, I came back down about 5 minutes after you left --McD From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 22 23:36:20 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:36:20 -0400 Subject: Meeting tonight Message-ID: <20090422233620.GX6404@localhost.localdomain> I can't make tonight's meeting but I'll check out the logs -- I'm interested in hearing how the release notes work went, since I was on vacation and missed most of the fireworks. Well, except the fireworks I saw. Which is a separate story. :-) Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Apr 23 01:28:07 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 22 Apr 2009 21:28:07 -0400 Subject: Meeting tonight References: <20090422233620.GX6404@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <418C5211CF0F408B911EA530FB7F3AEA@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: "Fedora Documentation Project" Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 7:36 PM Subject: Meeting tonight > I'm interested in hearing how the release notes > work went, since I was on vacation and missed > most of the fireworks. Well, it really wasn't THAT exciting. After quaid and I beat our heads against the wall for half a day, f13 bailed us out. Then I almost had a heart attack when I couldn't install the koji RPM to test it. But before I pulled out the hari-kari sword, I remembered the new rpm thing, and all went well. There are a lot of questions to answer, though. In a lot of cases I simply beat it into submission. I would rather the solutions be more elegant. But, I think discretion may be the better part of valor, we'll see. --McD From sradvan at redhat.com Thu Apr 23 04:25:34 2009 From: sradvan at redhat.com (Scott Radvan) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 14:25:34 +1000 Subject: SELinux managing-confined-services guide - call for review Message-ID: <20090423142534.5733ff3f@redhat.com> Hi all, The Fedora SELinux managing-confined-services guide I have been working on is nearing completion. I would greatly appreciate any and all comments or corrections that anyone has on it. It is available here: http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/ Cheers, -- Scott Radvan Content Author, Platform (Installation and Deployment) Red Hat APAC (Brisbane) http://www.apac.redhat.com From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu Apr 23 06:09:29 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 16:09:29 +1000 Subject: Fedora 11 User Guide Message-ID: <49F00619.4080300@redhat.com> Just a heads-up to everyone that conversion of the Fedora 11 User Guide to Docbook XML is now complete and checked into the git repo here: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=docs/user-guide.git;a=summary The wiki version of the document includes the desktop icons for most of the applications mentioned in the guide. I haven't included these in the XML version due to time constraints. I'm also not sure how much value they really add to the guide, and whether other screen shots might be more useful instead of (or in addition to) the desktop icons. You can see a test build of the document here: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/User%20Guide/ I've also created a branch in the repo named "f11-tx" that contains a folder named "po" to hold translations coming in through Transifex. This folder currently holds the user-guide.pot file, created with msgcat from the individual Publican .pot files. It also has an empty LINGUAS file. So, as soon as Matthew gives the say-so, this is ready for translation. Cheers Rudi From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 12:06:02 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:06:02 -0400 Subject: Meeting tonight In-Reply-To: <418C5211CF0F408B911EA530FB7F3AEA@Aidan> References: <20090422233620.GX6404@localhost.localdomain> <418C5211CF0F408B911EA530FB7F3AEA@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090423120602.GG6404@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 09:28:07PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > Well, it really wasn't THAT exciting. After quaid and I beat our heads > against the wall for half a day, f13 bailed us out. Then I almost had a > heart attack when I couldn't install the koji RPM to test it. But before > I pulled out the hari-kari sword, I remembered the new rpm thing, and all > went well. > > There are a lot of questions to answer, though. In a lot of cases I > simply beat it into submission. I would rather the solutions be more > elegant. But, I think discretion may be the better part of valor, we'll > see. What are some of the remaining questions? How can we improve the process and packaging for the final product? How would you quantify the remaining risk to the Fedora 11 final release? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Apr 23 12:20:16 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 08:20:16 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 User Guide In-Reply-To: <49F00619.4080300@redhat.com> References: <49F00619.4080300@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 02:09, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Just a heads-up to everyone that conversion of the Fedora 11 User Guide to > Docbook XML is now complete and checked into the git repo here: > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=docs/user-guide.git;a=summary ... > You can see a test build of the document here: > http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/User%20Guide/ ... > So, as soon as Matthew gives the say-so, this is ready for translation. > > Cheers > Rudi Excellent news, Rudi. Thank you for your hard work on getting this guide out the door. Eric From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Apr 23 13:06:49 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 09:06:49 -0400 Subject: Meeting tonight References: <20090422233620.GX6404@localhost.localdomain><418C5211CF0F408B911EA530FB7F3AEA@Aidan> <20090423120602.GG6404@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <3FAFBDDB9FBB415A8DF32FC6CDB51F85@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 8:06 AM Subject: Re: Meeting tonight > What are some of the remaining questions? I guess the biggie, IMO, is whether we are going to use ISO Language/Loc codes and how we are going to apply them. The standard says you don't need the loc code unless it makes sense, but Publican seems to like it always. Also, ISO says hyphen between lang and loc, Publican uses a hyphen, most places in Fedora it is an underscore. ISO codes work sometimes, but in preview, I made .omf's for both the ISO and the old code because I couldn't fathom the pattern as to why some things worked sometimes and not others, so I beat it with a club. Once we get some breathing space I need to learn how the language gets from the button on the logon screen to yelp. Perhaps then the behavior would make sense. Actually, I think Docs aren't the only thing broken. For example, log on with Dutch and LANG gets set to en_US, and the screen that asks if you want to rename folders sometimes comes up in Dutch and sometimes in English. The other thing is the omf's. As far as I can tell, Publican provides no way to make them, and apart from a fully set up f-d-u, the only way I could come up with them was brute force. Again, once we get breathing space we need to come up with a strategy. I didn't convert the 5 "minor" docs to Publican. We should go ahead and do that since they now look a little like orphans. I also wonder a little about the value of running Publican within rpmbuild. I guess I flip flop on that a little On the one hand, the real sources are in the rpm, and that is a good thing. On the other, the rpmbuild takes a very long time, and the help xmls look awfully similar to the originals anyway. I guess it does force a clean build, which is probably a very good thing. Maybe the msgmerge should also be in rpmbuild. It isn't right now. > How would you quantify the remaining risk to the > Fedora 11 final release? I think the biggest question mark is how many translations get done. There are a few minor updates that have been mentioned since we froze back on 4/1, but the main issue we dealt with for preview was simply getting the srpm onto Koji. We need a few more packagers in Docs I guess. But my Tuesday activities were pretty rote; update the dates in the readmes and run f-d-u, grab the latest translations and run msgmerge, then run rpmbuild. Then run around finding someone to push it to Koji. That was the hardest part and it shouldn't have been. I guess the Publican part and msgmerge went smoothly partly because laubersm has been policing the translations very carefully. That risk completely got by me and if she hadn't been on top of it I may have had a much more difficult time. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 15:02:03 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:02:03 -0400 Subject: Meeting tonight In-Reply-To: <3FAFBDDB9FBB415A8DF32FC6CDB51F85@Aidan> References: <20090423120602.GG6404@localhost.localdomain> <3FAFBDDB9FBB415A8DF32FC6CDB51F85@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090423150203.GQ6404@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 09:06:49AM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > From: "Paul W. Frields" >> What are some of the remaining questions? > > I guess the biggie, IMO, is whether we are going to use ISO Language/Loc > codes and how we are going to apply them. The standard says you don't > need the loc code unless it makes sense, but Publican seems to like it > always. Also, ISO says hyphen between lang and loc, Publican uses a > hyphen, most places in Fedora it is an underscore. Yeah, it's not clear to me why that standard was used, or why other usage isn't supported. Whether it matches other Fedora usage or not probably isn't as important, as long as (1) the toolchain used for translation is working, and (2) the operating environment consistently selects the right files given whatever locale is set for the user. > ISO codes work sometimes, but in preview, I made .omf's for both the ISO > and the old code because I couldn't fathom the pattern as to why some > things worked sometimes and not others, so I beat it with a club. Can you be more specific? I might be able to offer the meager knowledge I have if I know what problems you faced. > Once we get some breathing space I need to learn how the language > gets from the button on the logon screen to yelp. Perhaps then the > behavior would make sense. Actually, I think Docs aren't the only > thing broken. For example, log on with Dutch and LANG gets set to > en_US, and the screen that asks if you want to rename folders > sometimes comes up in Dutch and sometimes in English. The $LANG environment variable is used as the fallback for all locale environment variables in bash not otherwise set (usually those envars start with $LC). On my box, for example, $LANG is set to 'en_US.UTF-8'. When I select "Nederlander (Nederland)," which I believe is Dutch, from the locale menu at login, I get the expected behavior. The menus appear in Dutch, and I get a prompt asking for renaming folders. If I exit the session and don't change the defaults from English, the next login reverts to US English the same way. > The other thing is the omf's. As far as I can tell, Publican provides no > way to make them, and apart from a fully set up f-d-u, the only way I > could come up with them was brute force. Again, once we get breathing > space we need to come up with a strategy. I would argue that we don't need to package OMFs or XML if we're providing the standard HTML-version builds from Publican. I provided them before as what I thought was a more "standard" way of including documentation, that being through the online Help menu. However, including menu items directly is a fine way as well, and I would say if those menu items do an "xdg-open" on the HTML, then there's really no reason to provide OMFs or XML backing them up. > I didn't convert the 5 "minor" docs to Publican. We should go ahead and > do that since they now look a little like orphans. > > I also wonder a little about the value of running Publican within > rpmbuild. I guess I flip flop on that a little On the one hand, the real > sources are in the rpm, and that is a good thing. On the other, the > rpmbuild takes a very long time, and the help xmls look awfully similar to > the originals anyway. I guess it does force a clean build, which is > probably a very good thing. Maybe the msgmerge should also be in > rpmbuild. It isn't right now. One of the reasons for moving to publican was to provide a more rigorous release engineering process where the docs are built from source inside the build system in the same fashion as other code-type content. I think that's a rational way of doing things. When you say msgmerge, you mean breaking the single POTs apart into separates? I think this is really a manual work around that we don't want to spend time on doing in rpmbuild. In the F12 cycle it won't even be needed because the next release of Transifex, 0.6, will directly support multi-POT repositories like Publican. >> How would you quantify the remaining risk to the >> Fedora 11 final release? > > I think the biggest question mark is how many translations get done. > There are a few minor updates that have been mentioned since we froze back > on 4/1, but the main issue we dealt with for preview was simply getting > the srpm onto Koji. We need a few more packagers in Docs I guess. But my > Tuesday activities were pretty rote; update the dates in the readmes and > run f-d-u, grab the latest translations and run msgmerge, then run > rpmbuild. Then run around finding someone to push it to Koji. That was > the hardest part and it shouldn't have been. I guess the Publican part > and msgmerge went smoothly partly because laubersm has been policing the > translations very carefully. That risk completely got by me and if she > hadn't been on top of it I may have had a much more difficult time. Teamwork ftw! Now that I'm back I'm happy to help with fixes, education, unnecessary opinions, or whatever anyone might want from me. ;-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From danielsmw at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 15:24:46 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:24:46 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 User Guide In-Reply-To: <49F00619.4080300@redhat.com> References: <49F00619.4080300@redhat.com> Message-ID: Rudi, On Apr 23, 2009, at 2:09 AM, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > You can see a test build of the document here: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/User%20Guide/ It looks great. Thanks for all your help getting this working before the F11 release. I think this is the first time we've actually been able to get this out the door in time since... at least F8, if I remember correctly. There was a small typo in the production notes. It was referring to the Install Guide instead of the User Guide, so I made a small changed and pushed it to the git repo. > So, as soon as Matthew gives the say-so, this is ready for > translation. With that done, I think we're go! Thanks again for all your help. - Matthew. From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Apr 23 16:05:35 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:05:35 -0400 Subject: Meeting tonight References: <20090423120602.GG6404@localhost.localdomain><3FAFBDDB9FBB415A8DF32FC6CDB51F85@Aidan> <20090423150203.GQ6404@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Thursday, April 23, 2009 11:02 AM Subject: Re: Meeting tonight > Yeah, it's not clear to me why that standard was used, > or why other usage isn't supported. It seems to me that we *should* use the ISO, although what I read seemed a little vague, but the issue extends far beyond Docs. > Can you be more specific? I might be able to offer the > meager knowledge I have if I know what problems you > faced. Unfortunately, I can't recall the exact cases because they made so little sense, but it seems to me that if I had a de-DE omf file, I would get the release notes in German, but an nl-NL would not. There also seemed to be some inconsistency even within one language, which now that I think back, could have been related to the previous language. If you look at the screen on nl asking you to rename folders, the target names are in Dutch, but the outside instructions are in English. I'm pretty sure I saw that entire thing in Dutch at least once, but on reflection, I may have been looking at German, since I was running through all the languages we had translated and I could have easily taken German for Dutch without a close look. > On my box, for example, $LANG is set to > 'en_US.UTF-8'. Yes, but what is interesting is that if you log on in German, you get de.UTF-8, but with Dutch, you get en_US.UTF-8. Seems like I may have seen one other language like that. Someone also suggested I explore /etc/sysconfig/i18n, but that seems to always contain en_US no matter what. > I would argue that we don't need to package OMFs or > XML if we're providing the standard HTML-version builds > from Publican. I like that idea, actually. I provided the same behavior as our current; System->Help provides About Fedora and Release notes in yelp, System->About Fedora provides only About Fedora also in yelp. I don't see any obvious way to find the readme's tho. If we put all the Docs on the System->Documentation menu as Publican does it would make more sense to me, but since I didn't understand how those menus get internationalized I didn't want to go there. > One of the reasons for moving to publican was to provide a > more rigorous release engineering process I'm a fan of that reasoning. > In the F12 cycle it won't even be needed because the next > release of Transifex Good thinking. No point in strssing over it. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 23 16:19:38 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:19:38 -0400 Subject: Meeting tonight In-Reply-To: References: <20090423150203.GQ6404@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090423161938.GA6404@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 12:05:35PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > From: "Paul W. Frields" > >> Yeah, it's not clear to me why that standard was used, >> or why other usage isn't supported. > > It seems to me that we *should* use the ISO, although what I read seemed a > little vague, but the issue extends far beyond Docs. > >> Can you be more specific? I might be able to offer the >> meager knowledge I have if I know what problems you >> faced. > > Unfortunately, I can't recall the exact cases because they made so little > sense, but it seems to me that if I had a de-DE omf file, I would get the > release notes in German, but an nl-NL would not. There also seemed to be > some inconsistency even within one language, which now that I think back, > could have been related to the previous language. > > If you look at the screen on nl asking you to rename folders, the target > names are in Dutch, but the outside instructions are in English. I'm > pretty sure I saw that entire thing in Dutch at least once, but on > reflection, I may have been looking at German, since I was running through > all the languages we had translated and I could have easily taken German > for Dutch without a close look. It's possible that that's the result of an incomplete 'nl' translation in the code itself. Shouldn't have much to do with the overall locale treatment, I think. All my menus presented as expected. >> On my box, for example, $LANG is set to >> 'en_US.UTF-8'. > > Yes, but what is interesting is that if you log on in German, you get > de.UTF-8, but with Dutch, you get en_US.UTF-8. Seems like I may have seen > one other language like that. Someone also suggested I explore > /etc/sysconfig/i18n, but that seems to always contain en_US no matter > what. Hm, my $LANG appeared as 'nl_NL.UTF-8' as expected when I logged in using the procedure I noted previously. The /etc/sysconfig/i18n file, IIRC, just sets the system default. >> I would argue that we don't need to package OMFs or >> XML if we're providing the standard HTML-version builds >> from Publican. > > I like that idea, actually. I provided the same behavior as our current; > System->Help provides About Fedora and Release notes in yelp, > System->About Fedora provides only About Fedora also in yelp. I don't see > any obvious way to find the readme's tho. If we put all the Docs on the > System->Documentation menu as Publican does it would make more sense to > me, but since I didn't understand how those menus get internationalized I > didn't want to go there. There were some objections by some people in the Desktop SIG to the About Fedora menu item. They wanted to remove it in favor of some more elegant approach, but I don't remember if they ever spelled that out. Until they do, we should probably go with "least surprise" and leave it there as the one bit of OMF/XML we include. Good catch, and thanks for reminding everyone about it! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu Apr 23 21:32:39 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:32:39 +1000 Subject: Fedora 11 User Guide In-Reply-To: References: <49F00619.4080300@redhat.com> Message-ID: <49F0DE77.8020804@redhat.com> Matthew Daniels wrote: > There was a small typo in the production notes. It was referring to > the Install Guide instead of the User Guide, so I made a small changed > and pushed it to the git repo. \\ Ooops! So you can see where I copied that section from... Actually, there was another reference to the IG in the next sentence as well. I've fixed it in both the master branch and in the f11-tx Transifex branch (and fixed the .po files) >> So, as soon as Matthew gives the say-so, this is ready for translation. > With that done, I think we're go! Thanks again for all your help. > > - Matthew. > That being the case, could somebody (Karsten?) please set this up in Transifex so that translators can see the f11-tx branch? The translators over on fedora-trans-list will also need to know that it's there! :) Cheers Rudi From stickster at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 00:53:42 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 23 Apr 2009 20:53:42 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 User Guide In-Reply-To: <49F0DE77.8020804@redhat.com> References: <49F00619.4080300@redhat.com> <49F0DE77.8020804@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090424005342.GE16902@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 07:32:39AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Matthew Daniels wrote: >> There was a small typo in the production notes. It was referring to >> the Install Guide instead of the User Guide, so I made a small changed >> and pushed it to the git repo. \\ > > Ooops! So you can see where I copied that section from... Actually, there > was another reference to the IG in the next sentence as well. I've fixed > it in both the master branch and in the f11-tx Transifex branch (and fixed > the .po files) > >>> So, as soon as Matthew gives the say-so, this is ready for translation. >> With that done, I think we're go! Thanks again for all your help. >> >> - Matthew. >> > > That being the case, could somebody (Karsten?) please set this up in > Transifex so that translators can see the f11-tx branch? The translators > over on fedora-trans-list will also need to know that it's there! :) I think the best way to do this is generally by visiting #fedora-l10n or #transifex on IRC Freenode. But I'm cc'ing the fedora-trans-list where surely someone will see it and help us out.... ;-) Can we get the f11-tx branch added to Transifex for the Installation Guide? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Fri Apr 24 01:46:03 2009 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 04:46:03 +0300 Subject: Fedora 11 User Guide In-Reply-To: <20090424005342.GE16902@localhost.localdomain> References: <49F00619.4080300@redhat.com> <49F0DE77.8020804@redhat.com> <20090424005342.GE16902@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6d4237680904231846n7b79fb73k72f803f5eaa254a4@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 07:32:39AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: >> Matthew Daniels wrote: >>> There was a small typo in the production notes. ?It was referring to >>> the Install Guide instead of the User Guide, so I made a small changed >>> and pushed it to the git repo. \\ >> >> Ooops! So you can see where I copied that section from... Actually, there >> was another reference to the IG in the next sentence as well. I've fixed >> it in both the master branch and in the f11-tx Transifex branch (and fixed >> the .po files) >> >>>> So, as soon as Matthew gives the say-so, this is ready for translation. >>> With that done, I think we're go! ?Thanks again for all your help. >>> >>> - Matthew. >>> >> >> That being the case, could somebody (Karsten?) please set this up in >> Transifex so that translators can see the f11-tx branch? The translators >> over on fedora-trans-list will also need to know that it's there! :) > > I think the best way to do this is generally by visiting #fedora-l10n > or #transifex on IRC Freenode. ?But I'm cc'ing the fedora-trans-list > where surely someone will see it and help us out.... ;-) > > Can we get the f11-tx branch added to Transifex for the Installation > Guide? Done. https://translate.fedoraproject.org/tx/projects/docs-user-guide/f11-tx/ No translations in the repo yet. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From domingobecker at gmail.com Sat Apr 25 16:28:25 2009 From: domingobecker at gmail.com (Domingo Becker) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 13:28:25 -0300 Subject: install-guide in Spanish Message-ID: <4818cd80904250928p6fc5f170tb009a9802a28f8c4@mail.gmail.com> The Spanish Team finished the translation of install-guide. I need a few things: 1. Would you add the following people to the colophon?, they helped in the translation of this release: Daniel Cabrera (translator, Spanish) Claudio Rodrigo Pereyra Diaz (translator, Spanish) 2. A possibility to see a preview of F11 install-guide in order to make corrections. 3. Would you publish the F10 install-guide which was completed before [1], but not published yet. It's not listed in [2] [1] https://translate.fedoraproject.org/tx/projects/docs-install-guide/f10/ [2] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f10/ thanks kind regards Domingo Becker (es) From about-fedora at fedorahosted.org Sat Apr 25 19:58:38 2009 From: about-fedora at fedorahosted.org (about-fedora) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:58:38 -0000 Subject: #1: git push fails for f11-tx Message-ID: <037.276588b5dcc786044eaa7f6db8d20e92@fedorahosted.org> #1: git push fails for f11-tx ------------------------+--------------------------------------------------- Reporter: glezos | Owner: somebody Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: component1 | Version: Keywords: | ------------------------+--------------------------------------------------- It seems that Tx is unable to push over ssh to the f11-tx branch. {{{ bash-3.2$ SSH_AUTH_SOCK=/var/lib/transifex/ssh-agent-sock-transifex git push To ssh://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/install-guide.git ! [rejected] master -> master (non-fast forward) error: failed to push some refs to 'ssh://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs /install-guide.git' }}} -- Ticket URL: about-fedora My example project From about-fedora at fedorahosted.org Sat Apr 25 20:07:28 2009 From: about-fedora at fedorahosted.org (about-fedora) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 20:07:28 -0000 Subject: #1: git push fails for f11-tx In-Reply-To: <037.276588b5dcc786044eaa7f6db8d20e92@fedorahosted.org> References: <037.276588b5dcc786044eaa7f6db8d20e92@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <046.a4c6278238b6d258bde77aa7b0791dea@fedorahosted.org> #1: git push fails for f11-tx -------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Reporter: glezos | Owner: somebody Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: component1 | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Changes (by glezos): * cc: stickster (added) Comment: More @ http://dpaste.com/37764/. -- Ticket URL: about-fedora My example project From about-fedora at fedorahosted.org Sat Apr 25 20:13:25 2009 From: about-fedora at fedorahosted.org (about-fedora) Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2009 20:13:25 -0000 Subject: #1: git push fails for f11-tx In-Reply-To: <037.276588b5dcc786044eaa7f6db8d20e92@fedorahosted.org> References: <037.276588b5dcc786044eaa7f6db8d20e92@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <046.a65409fb97d647114ecdaf03b9824ead@fedorahosted.org> #1: git push fails for f11-tx -------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Reporter: glezos | Owner: somebody Type: defect | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Component: component1 | Version: Resolution: | Keywords: -------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Comment (by glezos): The 'transif' user needs to be added to the `gituser-guide` group. -- Ticket URL: about-fedora My example project From stickster at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 16:23:54 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:23:54 -0400 Subject: Outside Linux magazine help Message-ID: <20090426162354.GB18441@localhost.localdomain> I was contacted by our Red Hat PR folks, who received a request from a Linux magazine for help preparing content for a special issue on Fedora 11. This magazine appears on newsstands around North America and some ESL regions as well. This job is actually does offer some pay for the work involved. Are there a couple volunteers who are interested in providing this content on a fairly short deadline of a few weeks? It would probably be worthwhile to have a small team, and I would recommend that team not be comprised -- at least not solely -- of people who are already committing their efforts to those things we really need for release. (However, you guys are the best judges of the time you have, so if there's someone superhuman out there, I won't stop you!) Please get in touch with me **OFF THE LIST**, in private, and I will hook you up directly with the editor of the publication in question. (By the way, they did very nice Fedora 9 and Fedora 10 issues, which I saw on newsstands around town, so these guys are legit!) Thanks for your help; you can contact me at pfrields at fedoraproject.org or the email above. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From about-fedora at fedorahosted.org Sun Apr 26 17:11:23 2009 From: about-fedora at fedorahosted.org (about-fedora) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:11:23 -0000 Subject: #1: git push fails for f11-tx In-Reply-To: <037.276588b5dcc786044eaa7f6db8d20e92@fedorahosted.org> References: <037.276588b5dcc786044eaa7f6db8d20e92@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <046.f437210e09d331645fda39d5b8e7e737@fedorahosted.org> #1: git push fails for f11-tx -------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Reporter: glezos | Owner: somebody Type: defect | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: Component: component1 | Version: Resolution: fixed | Keywords: -------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed Comment: Replying to [comment:2 glezos]: > The 'transif' user needs to be added to the `gituser-guide` group. Is this a problem in the "about-fedora" repo? That's where this ticket is logged. The user-guide needs to have its tickets logged somewhere, but this is probably not it. :-) In any case, I see that the user has been added appropriately, so closing this ticket. The user-guide owners should set up someplace to log tickets, or else just put information in the FAS group as to where people should send problem reports. -- Ticket URL: about-fedora My example project From about-fedora at fedorahosted.org Sun Apr 26 17:30:49 2009 From: about-fedora at fedorahosted.org (about-fedora) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 17:30:49 -0000 Subject: #1: git push fails for f11-tx In-Reply-To: <037.276588b5dcc786044eaa7f6db8d20e92@fedorahosted.org> References: <037.276588b5dcc786044eaa7f6db8d20e92@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <046.535565a53940bea091ac6acddf6a5c02@fedorahosted.org> #1: git push fails for f11-tx -------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Reporter: glezos | Owner: somebody Type: defect | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: Component: component1 | Version: Resolution: fixed | Keywords: -------------------------+-------------------------------------------------- Comment (by glezos): Oops, sorry about the wrong component for the ticket. :) Thanks for the fix. -- Ticket URL: about-fedora My example project From stickster at gmail.com Sun Apr 26 17:34:49 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 13:34:49 -0400 Subject: Release Notes in F12 and beyond? Message-ID: <20090426173449.GG18441@localhost.localdomain> Several translation teams are doing a fantastic job getting translations of the Release Notes done for Fedora 11. However, it's a marked decrease in effort from the Fedora 10 release. From the few teams that talked about why they were not engaging in this effort, it looks like the large amount of material and churn in the Release Notes is a big demotivator for them, even though the churn from F10->F11 is significantly less than from F9->F10. It might be good to start thinking now about, and then clearly documenting for posterity (in a few months when we've all forgotten!), whether any change in the Release Notes strategy is desired. Perhaps the Docs team doesn't want to change that, in which case thought should be given to the translation needs for that document and how to address them. Several people have brought up the idea of making our official Release Notes document short and less technical, like those used in GNOME, and backing them up with more detailed pages on the wiki as needed. That's certainly one way to go. Just encouraging people to think about this problem and whether any change is warranted for F12 and beyond, and if so, what to change. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From chung at engr.orst.edu Sun Apr 26 23:28:23 2009 From: chung at engr.orst.edu (chung at engr.orst.edu) Date: Sun, 26 Apr 2009 16:28:23 -0700 Subject: Open source and diagramming survey Message-ID: <20090426162823.72015rtutrcsdpgk@webmail.oregonstate.edu> Dear open source contributors, I am Eunyoung Chung, a Masters student working with Dr. Jensen at Oregon State University. We are currently doing a research project in collaboration with Dr. Truong and Ph.D student Koji Yatani at University of Toronto. Our goal is to understand how contributors communicate and collaborate in Open Source Software (OSS) projects, including diagramming practices. We are seeking volunteers for a quick survey on this topic. Any person who is actively working on a OSS project is eligible. The survey takes approximately 10-15 minutes, and the 5 volunteers will be picked to receive a $30 Amazon gift certificate. Your participation is anonymous (unless you consent to have us contact you) Here is the survey address. https://secure.engr.oregonstate.edu/limesurvey/58564/lang-en We really appreciate your help! From stickster at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 21:24:52 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 17:24:52 -0400 Subject: corrections on release-notes-f11 In-Reply-To: <4818cd80904271116yb0353b5t42ccaf2bf711677a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80904271116yb0353b5t42ccaf2bf711677a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090427212452.GC6079@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 03:16:31PM -0300, Domingo Becker wrote: > Three sections are not in the pot file: > '5.10. File Systems', > '6.9. Linux Kernel' and > '7.2. Electronic Design Automation' > > They are not localisable. > > The rest looks fine. Yikes, that's the first I heard of that -- can someone in Docs team take a look and verify what's going on there? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Mon Apr 27 23:21:29 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:21:29 -0400 Subject: corrections on release-notes-f11 References: <4818cd80904271116yb0353b5t42ccaf2bf711677a@mail.gmail.com> <20090427212452.GC6079@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <764DF109FC07420ABC3F7E05ADEB7F97@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: "Fedora Translation Project List" ; "Fedora Documentation Project" Sent: Monday, April 27, 2009 5:24 PM Subject: Re: corrections on release-notes-f11 Paul Frields wrote: > On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 03:16:31PM -0300, Domingo Becker wrote: >> Three sections are not in the pot file: >> '5.10. File Systems', >> '6.9. Linux Kernel' and >> '7.2. Electronic Design Automation' >> >> They are not localisable. >> >> The rest looks fine. > > Yikes, that's the first I heard of that -- can someone in Docs team > take a look and verify what's going on there? I obviously didn't check every single string, but release-notes.pot, the file we generated for translations, contains many of the strings from those three sections. All three sections are also represented in es-ES.po. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 23:28:13 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:28:13 -0400 Subject: Outside Linux magazine help In-Reply-To: <20090426162354.GB18441@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090426162354.GB18441@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090427232813.GF6079@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 12:23:54PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Please get in touch with me **OFF THE LIST**, in private, and I will > hook you up directly with the editor of the publication in question. > (By the way, they did very nice Fedora 9 and Fedora 10 issues, which I > saw on newsstands around town, so these guys are legit!) > > Thanks for your help; you can contact me at pfrields at fedoraproject.org > or the email above. We've closed the loop on this -- there's a substantial team working on this particular project now, so no further responses are required. Thank you to everyone who signed on to help, including David, Kirk, Mani, Rahul, Zach, Tommy, Keith and Lucas. Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Apr 27 23:36:38 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:36:38 -0400 Subject: corrections on release-notes-f11 In-Reply-To: <764DF109FC07420ABC3F7E05ADEB7F97@Aidan> References: <4818cd80904271116yb0353b5t42ccaf2bf711677a@mail.gmail.com> <20090427212452.GC6079@localhost.localdomain> <764DF109FC07420ABC3F7E05ADEB7F97@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090427233638.GG6079@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 07:21:29PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > Paul Frields wrote: >> On Mon, Apr 27, 2009 at 03:16:31PM -0300, Domingo Becker wrote: >>> Three sections are not in the pot file: >>> '5.10. File Systems', >>> '6.9. Linux Kernel' and >>> '7.2. Electronic Design Automation' >>> >>> They are not localisable. >>> >>> The rest looks fine. >> >> Yikes, that's the first I heard of that -- can someone in Docs team >> take a look and verify what's going on there? > > I obviously didn't check every single string, but release-notes.pot, the > file we generated for translations, contains many of the strings from > those three sections. All three sections are also represented in > es-ES.po. And I clearly remember checking numbers of strings with you before going on vacation, and the numbers basically matched up, with a couple discrepancies that are probably due to uniqueness. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ian at ianweller.org Tue Apr 28 01:31:39 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 20:31:39 -0500 Subject: sphinx as search solution? Message-ID: <20090428013139.GC22251@kupenblagster.ianweller.org> Here's a search engine solution[1] that doesn't run on Java and has a MediaWiki plugin[2]. Please take a look at let me know what you think with regards to using it for Fedora Infra's purposes. [1] http://www.sphinxsearch.com/ [2] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mediawiki/wiki/Extension:SphinxSearch -- Ian Weller GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jon at fedoraunity.org Tue Apr 28 01:54:46 2009 From: jon at fedoraunity.org (Jonathan Steffan) Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 19:54:46 -0600 Subject: sphinx as search solution? In-Reply-To: <20090428013139.GC22251@kupenblagster.ianweller.org> References: <20090428013139.GC22251@kupenblagster.ianweller.org> Message-ID: <49F661E6.8080605@fedoraunity.org> Ian Weller wrote: > Here's a search engine solution[1] that doesn't run on Java and has a > MediaWiki plugin[2]. Please take a look at let me know what you think > with regards to using it for Fedora Infra's purposes. > > [1] http://www.sphinxsearch.com/ > [2] https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/mediawiki/wiki/Extension:SphinxSearch There is also xapian, but on a quick google there is no mediawiki plugin. http://xapian.org Also not some other "Fedora" stuff using it, so we might have some people that have experience with it: http://xapian.org/users.php -- Jonathan Steffan daMaestro Fedora Unity - http://fedoraunity.org/ GPG Fingerprint: 93A2 3E2F DC26 5570 3472 5B16 AD12 6CE7 0D86 AF59 From cpanceac at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 16:40:14 2009 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:40:14 +0300 Subject: a small typo Message-ID: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11preview/en-US/ar01s06s02.html s/Comparibility/Compatibility -- Linux counter #213090 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cpanceac at gmail.com Tue Apr 28 16:49:47 2009 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:49:47 +0300 Subject: same names Message-ID: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11preview/en-US/ar01s05s10.html sections 5.10.1.3.and 5.10.2.1.have the same name i suggest "No {ext4,btrfs} support in grub" or similar. -- Linux counter #213090 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Apr 28 23:36:51 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:36:51 -0400 Subject: Security Guide FREEZE! and translations. Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 If it wasn't already frozen it should be now. I'm submitting the Security Guide for translation now. Thanks, Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkn3kxYACgkQfQTSQL0MFMGV3QCfVKrlMy62Y+gwpaIeOyWB0lO4 GkoAoIt/tXDOyKO97HLR5XIQY49MkEOf =mfnj -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 29 12:07:14 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 08:07:14 -0400 Subject: Docs Project Meeting Reminder Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Today at 0001 UTC the Docs Project will be meeting in the #fedora-meeting room for our weekly meeting. If you have anything you would like to discuss please add it to the agenda[1] before 2200 UTC. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings Thanks, Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkn4QvUACgkQfQTSQL0MFMHksgCfYQT5l/Q3Bx7nkoRFNrvr+GwE DNUAoKjqeneB1z50uAqIVxSt1j82+NA4 =kpai -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 29 14:00:58 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:00:58 -0400 Subject: Attention Guide Leads... Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 All Guide leads: Please update the guide table[1] with the status of your guide. This will help me know where your project is in the grand scheme of things. If I've forgotten a pertinent column or a guide please add it. If you have multiple releases please include them as separate rows. I'm most concerned with the F11 versions but it is also important to include versions from F10 and F9. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table#Guides Thanks, Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkn4XZoACgkQfQTSQL0MFMGKZwCeO23hUMaSueyScrpP9uWHi39U 0OgAoMQdcILIUXB2DpO0c2dXtBFylwod =hbw8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 29 14:28:57 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 10:28:57 -0400 Subject: Docs Project Mission Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Trying to write a new mission statement[1] for the Docs Project. Please edit, modify, cut, paste, or whatever to make the statement better. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_mission_statement Thanks, Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkn4ZCgACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFGXwCgvVCrruyMpSwE/yZiOp0pNwTz JBcAn1uoO2eRpQL9G3Kq04Bdpn9m5cDk =vpWA -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 29 17:20:55 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:20:55 -0400 Subject: Guides Page Message-ID: I've created a guide page[1] on the wiki that shows all the guides that we are currently supporting. My plan is to include a list of all the guides, a brief introduction paragraph, a sentence that tells people how they can become involved, and where they can find the guide (html, pdf, RPM, etc). Please visit the page and provide that information on your guide. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides Thanks, Eric From philip at roshambo.org Wed Apr 29 19:03:46 2009 From: philip at roshambo.org (Philip Olson) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 12:03:46 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction: Message-ID: <8A66562C-ABDC-416B-8057-377F7DB8BA5F@roshambo.org> Greetings geeks, My name is Philip Olson and I'm interested in the Fedora documentation project. I've worked with the PHP documentation for about seven years (wow, has it been that long?!) and am interested in also working on other projects, like this one. I'll probably end up lurking and performing small fixes but cannot predict the future after that. Rumor has it that the Fedora community is open and friendly so I plan to join in on the fun and want to develop ideas for the following: - http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/Teaching_Get_Involved So, in the very least I'll be the new guy who complains about and helps improve the current DocsProject HOWTO. Regards, Philip From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Apr 29 21:52:33 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 17:52:33 -0400 Subject: Docs Project Task Table Message-ID: If you have a task on the task table[1] please update it. If you don't know if you have a task on the task table then go take a peek at the table and see if you can help out with one (or more) of the tasks. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_admin_tasks_for_experienced_contributors#Task_table Thanks, Eric From stickster at gmail.com Wed Apr 29 23:26:43 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:26:43 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: rpms/fedora-release-notes/F-11 fedora-release-notes.spec,1.36,1.37] Message-ID: <20090429232643.GA18166@localhost.localdomain> Spot, Is this a kosher change? A contributor brought it to Fedora Docs but I can't tell to what extent anyone checked packaging guidelines. No bug was filed and there's no ML traffic about it. Upshot is, using hardlink to save very significant space. I only found this draft, and no sign that it's approved or that the usage below is explicitly forbidden, so I'm assuming it's peachy keen. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/HardLinks Paul ----- Forwarded message from Lubomir Rintel ----- Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 19:12:19 +0000 (UTC) From: Lubomir Rintel To: cvsextras at fedoraproject.org, fedora-release-notes-owner at fedoraproject.org Subject: rpms/fedora-release-notes/F-11 fedora-release-notes.spec,1.36,1.37 Author: lkundrak Update of /cvs/pkgs/rpms/fedora-release-notes/F-11 In directory cvs1.fedora.phx.redhat.com:/tmp/cvs-serv5352 Modified Files: fedora-release-notes.spec Log Message: * Wed Apr 29 2009 Lubomir Rintel - 10.93.0-2 - Hardlink duplicate files to save space Index: fedora-release-notes.spec =================================================================== RCS file: /cvs/pkgs/rpms/fedora-release-notes/F-11/fedora-release-notes.spec,v retrieving revision 1.36 retrieving revision 1.37 diff -u -p -r1.36 -r1.37 --- fedora-release-notes.spec 21 Apr 2009 20:40:12 -0000 1.36 +++ fedora-release-notes.spec 29 Apr 2009 19:11:49 -0000 1.37 @@ -11,7 +11,7 @@ Name: fedora-release-notes Version: 10.93.0 -Release: 1%{?dist} +Release: 2%{?dist} Summary: Release Notes for Fedora 11 URL: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats @@ -29,6 +29,7 @@ BuildArch: noarch BuildRequires: desktop-file-utils BuildRequires: publican BuildRequires: publican-fedora +BuildRequires: hardlink %if %{HTMLVIEW} Requires: htmlview @@ -148,6 +149,10 @@ install -m 644 about-*omf $RPM_BUILD_ROO install -m 644 -D about-gnome.desktop $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/applications/about-fedora.desktop popd +# There are lot of duplicate files, save space by hardlinking them +hardlink -cv $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/doc +hardlink -cv $RPM_BUILD_ROOT%{_datadir}/gnome + %clean rm -rf $RPM_BUILD_ROOT @@ -174,6 +179,9 @@ if [ -x /usr/bin/update-desktop-database %changelog +* Wed Apr 29 2009 Lubomir Rintel - 10.93.0-2 +- Hardlink duplicate files to save space + * Tue Apr 14 2009 John J. McDonough - 10.93.0-1 - Use publican for F11 Preview release ----- End forwarded message ----- From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Apr 30 00:50:59 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:50:59 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: rpms/fedora-release-notes/F-11 fedora-release-notes.spec, 1.36, 1.37] In-Reply-To: <20090429232643.GA18166@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090429232643.GA18166@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49F8F5F3.3000008@redhat.com> On 04/29/2009 07:26 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Is this a kosher change? A contributor brought it to Fedora Docs but > I can't tell to what extent anyone checked packaging guidelines. No > bug was filed and there's no ML traffic about it. > > Upshot is, using hardlink to save very significant space. I only > found this draft, and no sign that it's approved or that the usage > below is explicitly forbidden, so I'm assuming it's peachy keen. Seems like a sensible action. I wouldn't lose sleep over it. ~spot From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Thu Apr 30 01:10:15 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:10:15 -0400 Subject: FAD at Southeast Linuxfest? Message-ID: So I wanted to see what the interest level was in having a FAD concentrating on Docs either before or after the Southeast Linuxfest. Just to give you a heads up, the Southeast Linuxfest is June 13th at Clemson University in South Carolina More info here: http://southeastlinuxfest.org A number of Docs contributors are in the Southeast, off the top of my head they include: *stickster *jsmith *Sparks *laubersm (though she already has a conflict) *ke4qqq *danielsmw *Eawest (though she will be very great with child or welcoming home a newborn during SELF and thus unable to attend) Some of the possible targets we could work on: *Answer the Docs_decisions_for_F12 * Mint some new packagers within Docs *Hack on some of the internal infrastructure *Work on Zikula I am sure there are other things, this event falls literally right after the F11 release so it might be a good time to do some strategy for the the coming year. In possible anticipation - I have tentatively reserved the same building SELF is being held in for our use on Sunday. I welcome comments, enthusiastic comments, and flames From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Apr 30 01:59:30 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:59:30 -0400 Subject: FAD at Southeast Linuxfest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 21:10, David Nalley wrote: > So I wanted to see what the interest level was in having a FAD > concentrating on Docs either before or after the Southeast Linuxfest. > > Just to give you a heads up, the Southeast Linuxfest is June 13th at > Clemson University in South Carolina > More info here: http://southeastlinuxfest.org I'm willing to come and work. I need to figure out my transportation, though, as my wife will probably be in Charleston so I'll want to head there after the event. Eric From herlo1 at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 02:45:56 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 20:45:56 -0600 Subject: FAD at Southeast Linuxfest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 21:10, David Nalley > wrote: >> So I wanted to see what the interest level was in having a FAD >> concentrating on Docs either before or after the Southeast Linuxfest. >> >> Just to give you a heads up, the Southeast Linuxfest is June 13th at >> Clemson University in South Carolina >> More info here: http://southeastlinuxfest.org > > I'm willing to come and work. ?I need to figure out my transportation, > though, as my wife will probably be in Charleston so I'll want to head > there after the event. > > Eric I'll be interested in some sort of FAD. Not sure what I'll wanna do yet, but we should narrow that down soon. Also, I'll be putting in my Fedora Remix talk as well. Hopefully Paul hasn't already submitted something like that :) I'm going to be looking at flights very soon. Cheers, Clint From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Thu Apr 30 02:50:08 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2009 22:50:08 -0400 Subject: FAD at Southeast Linuxfest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 9:59 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 21:10, David Nalley > wrote: >> So I wanted to see what the interest level was in having a FAD >> concentrating on Docs either before or after the Southeast Linuxfest. >> >> Just to give you a heads up, the Southeast Linuxfest is June 13th at >> Clemson University in South Carolina >> More info here: http://southeastlinuxfest.org > > I'm willing to come and work. ?I need to figure out my transportation, > though, as my wife will probably be in Charleston so I'll want to head > there after the event. > > Eric > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > I can probably put you in contact with a ride back to Chas. From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu Apr 30 05:03:59 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 15:03:59 +1000 Subject: install-guide in Spanish In-Reply-To: <4818cd80904250928p6fc5f170tb009a9802a28f8c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80904250928p6fc5f170tb009a9802a28f8c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <49F9313F.1090505@redhat.com> Domingo Becker wrote: > The Spanish Team finished the translation of install-guide. > Congratulations and many thanks for all your hard work! Sorry that it's taken so long to respond to this message; I've had to learn how to process the big, all-in-one po files for use with Publican (and then actually do the work!). By finishing first, the Spanish team has also been the one most affected by the many small changes to the draft version of the documentation. However, these are all finally in place now, so thank you for your patience and perseverance :) > I need a few things: > > 1. Would you add the following people to the colophon?, they helped in > the translation of this release: > Daniel Cabrera (translator, Spanish) > Claudio Rodrigo Pereyra Diaz (translator, Spanish) > Done (plus all the other new translators who have helped with the guide) > 2. A possibility to see a preview of F11 install-guide in order to > make corrections. > Available here, along with almost all the other languages that we've received translations from so far: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/ Note: 1. Persian is not available yet, because of a problem that I'm still working on (one of the xml files created by applying the fa.po file to the English xml files is not valid) 2. Not all the translations for the Publican "common content" sections are not in place yet, but I'm working on this too. Note also that some teams have not yet created localised content for these sections: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Publican/Common_Content > 3. Would you publish the F10 install-guide which was completed before > Has anyone volunteered to do this for you yet? I'm not familiar with the old fedora-docs-tools, but I'm willing to learn! Regards and many thanks once again, Ruediger From diegobz at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 10:50:59 2009 From: diegobz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Diego_B=FArigo_Zacar=E3o?=) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 07:50:59 -0300 Subject: Security Guide Doc on Transifex Message-ID: <6600c1b10904300350r79d484kafba8226897c12e@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I have noticed that some people are having troubles to submit the PO files to SG doc on Tx. As far as I could understand, it seems to be due the fact that you are trying to upload to the target 'po/.po' That project doesn't have a po/ directory. You should commit the PO files in the root of the repo. So the correct target is '.po' I just committed a pt_BR.po to serve as an example. Anyway, we are working to make that clear in the future. Regards -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o http://diegobz.net Linux User #402589 USE SOFTWARE LIVRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 12:42:25 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:42:25 -0400 Subject: install-guide in Spanish In-Reply-To: <49F9313F.1090505@redhat.com> References: <4818cd80904250928p6fc5f170tb009a9802a28f8c4@mail.gmail.com> <49F9313F.1090505@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090430124225.GD3111@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 03:03:59PM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Domingo Becker wrote: >> 3. Would you publish the F10 install-guide which was completed before >> > Has anyone volunteered to do this for you yet? I'm not familiar with the > old fedora-docs-tools, but I'm willing to learn! If you don't find the help you need on IRC #fedora-docs, ping me there and I'll see if I can assist. The old toolchain is on Fedora Hosted: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-doc-utils The starter page on the Trac site there is not as complete as it could be -- but then again, since the current method is to use Publican, these tools probably don't need highlighting for people who foraging for things to use. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 12:46:08 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:46:08 -0400 Subject: FAD at Southeast Linuxfest? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090430124608.GE3111@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 08:45:56PM -0600, Clint Savage wrote: > On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 7:59 PM, Eric Christensen > wrote: > > On Wed, Apr 29, 2009 at 21:10, David Nalley > > wrote: > >> So I wanted to see what the interest level was in having a FAD > >> concentrating on Docs either before or after the Southeast Linuxfest. > >> > >> Just to give you a heads up, the Southeast Linuxfest is June 13th at > >> Clemson University in South Carolina > >> More info here: http://southeastlinuxfest.org > > > > I'm willing to come and work. ?I need to figure out my transportation, > > though, as my wife will probably be in Charleston so I'll want to head > > there after the event. > > > > Eric > > I'll be interested in some sort of FAD. Not sure what I'll wanna do > yet, but we should narrow that down soon. Also, I'll be putting in my > Fedora Remix talk as well. Hopefully Paul hasn't already submitted > something like that :) Actually I did so in March. Haven't heard back about proposal decisions yet, but I think that should be coming out soon. The deadline for speaker applications is May 13 according to the site. > I'm going to be looking at flights very soon. I'd bet you a talk on git would be *very* much appreciated, and you're far better qualified to do that (given what I saw at the last FUDCon!). :-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 12:48:03 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 08:48:03 -0400 Subject: Security Guide Doc on Transifex In-Reply-To: <6600c1b10904300350r79d484kafba8226897c12e@mail.gmail.com> References: <6600c1b10904300350r79d484kafba8226897c12e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090430124803.GF3111@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 07:50:59AM -0300, Diego B?rigo Zacar?o wrote: > Hello, > > I have noticed that some people are having troubles to submit the PO files to > SG doc on Tx. > As far as I could understand, it seems to be due the fact that you are trying > to upload to the target 'po/.po' > That project doesn't have a po/ directory. You should commit the PO files in > the root of the repo. So the correct target is '.po' > I just committed a pt_BR.po to serve as an example. > > Anyway, we are working to make that clear in the future. What's the logic that Tx uses to figure out where to look for PO files in this case? Just curious. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From diegobz at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 12:59:19 2009 From: diegobz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Diego_B=FArigo_Zacar=E3o?=) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:59:19 -0300 Subject: Security Guide Doc on Transifex In-Reply-To: <20090430124803.GF3111@localhost.localdomain> References: <6600c1b10904300350r79d484kafba8226897c12e@mail.gmail.com> <20090430124803.GF3111@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <6600c1b10904300559t7a24135ej152e8d7579447f88@mail.gmail.com> Hello, On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 9:48 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > What's the logic that Tx uses to figure out where to look for PO files > in this case? Just curious. Tx searches for all the PO files that match with the component. filefilter. The filefilter before as '.*' and it means that it was accepting everything. I just changed it to '[^/]+' that will allow only create stats and submit translations for files in the root of the repo. https://translate.fedoraproject.org/tx/projects/docs-security-guide/trunk/ -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o http://diegobz.net Linux User #402589 USE SOFTWARE LIVRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Apr 30 13:10:43 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:10:43 -0400 Subject: Security Guide Doc on Transifex In-Reply-To: <6600c1b10904300559t7a24135ej152e8d7579447f88@mail.gmail.com> References: <6600c1b10904300350r79d484kafba8226897c12e@mail.gmail.com> <20090430124803.GF3111@localhost.localdomain> <6600c1b10904300559t7a24135ej152e8d7579447f88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: 2009/4/30 Diego B?rigo Zacar?o : > Tx searches for all the PO files that match with the component. filefilter. > The filefilter before as '.*' and it means that it was accepting everything. > I just changed it to '[^/]+' > that will allow only create stats and submit translations for files in the > root of the repo. > > https://translate.fedoraproject.org/tx/projects/docs-security-guide/trunk/ So, do I need to move anything or is it okay, now? Eric From diegobz at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 13:12:31 2009 From: diegobz at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Diego_B=FArigo_Zacar=E3o?=) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 10:12:31 -0300 Subject: Security Guide Doc on Transifex In-Reply-To: References: <6600c1b10904300350r79d484kafba8226897c12e@mail.gmail.com> <20090430124803.GF3111@localhost.localdomain> <6600c1b10904300559t7a24135ej152e8d7579447f88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <6600c1b10904300612x506103ccw55da32d51fb27178@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > So, do I need to move anything or is it okay, now? It's ok. ;) -- Diego B?rigo Zacar?o http://diegobz.net Linux User #402589 USE SOFTWARE LIVRE -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Apr 30 13:22:44 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 09:22:44 -0400 Subject: Security Guide Doc on Transifex In-Reply-To: <6600c1b10904300612x506103ccw55da32d51fb27178@mail.gmail.com> References: <6600c1b10904300350r79d484kafba8226897c12e@mail.gmail.com> <20090430124803.GF3111@localhost.localdomain> <6600c1b10904300559t7a24135ej152e8d7579447f88@mail.gmail.com> <6600c1b10904300612x506103ccw55da32d51fb27178@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090430132244.GJ3111@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:12:31AM -0300, Diego B?rigo Zacar?o wrote: > On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Eric Christensen > wrote: > > So, do I need to move anything or is it okay, now? > > > It's ok. ;) Thanks for the explanation and the assistance, Diego! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From kwade at redhat.com Thu Apr 30 20:08:50 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 13:08:50 -0700 Subject: Fedora 11 User Guide In-Reply-To: <49F0DE77.8020804@redhat.com> References: <49F00619.4080300@redhat.com> <49F0DE77.8020804@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090430200850.GH4395@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 07:32:39AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > That being the case, could somebody (Karsten?) please set this up in > Transifex so that translators can see the f11-tx branch? The translators > over on fedora-trans-list will also need to know that it's there! :) I'm presuming this was taken care of; sorry I didn't see the email, I was travelling/at a conference over the last week. For the future, be aware that no one in Fedora Docs has been trained or enabled to setup Transifex. I actually think fedora-trans-list is the right place to request, or at least until they tell us a better method. There are several folks, such as glezos and Rasther (iirc), who work Transifex magic. I also thought Asgeir (in Brisbane with y'all?) had the keys, but I'm unsure. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From asgeirf at gmail.com Fri Apr 24 01:54:03 2009 From: asgeirf at gmail.com (Asgeir Frimannsson) Date: Fri, 24 Apr 2009 11:54:03 +1000 Subject: Fedora 11 User Guide In-Reply-To: <6d4237680904231846n7b79fb73k72f803f5eaa254a4@mail.gmail.com> References: <49F00619.4080300@redhat.com> <49F0DE77.8020804@redhat.com> <20090424005342.GE16902@localhost.localdomain> <6d4237680904231846n7b79fb73k72f803f5eaa254a4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <75db4b7e0904231854p444ad904nd4779045a77746a5@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 11:46 AM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 3:53 AM, Paul W. Frields > wrote: > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 07:32:39AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > >> Matthew Daniels wrote: > >>> There was a small typo in the production notes. It was referring to > >>> the Install Guide instead of the User Guide, so I made a small changed > >>> and pushed it to the git repo. \\ > >> > >> Ooops! So you can see where I copied that section from... Actually, > there > >> was another reference to the IG in the next sentence as well. I've fixed > >> it in both the master branch and in the f11-tx Transifex branch (and > fixed > >> the .po files) > >> > >>>> So, as soon as Matthew gives the say-so, this is ready for > translation. > >>> With that done, I think we're go! Thanks again for all your help. > >>> > >>> - Matthew. > >>> > >> > >> That being the case, could somebody (Karsten?) please set this up in > >> Transifex so that translators can see the f11-tx branch? The translators > >> over on fedora-trans-list will also need to know that it's there! :) > > > > I think the best way to do this is generally by visiting #fedora-l10n > > or #transifex on IRC Freenode. But I'm cc'ing the fedora-trans-list > > where surely someone will see it and help us out.... ;-) > > > > Can we get the f11-tx branch added to Transifex for the Installation > > Guide? > > Done. > > https://translate.fedoraproject.org/tx/projects/docs-user-guide/f11-tx/ > > No translations in the repo yet. The branch was set to 'master'. I changed this to 'f11-tx' and the POT file is now available in Tx. cheers, asgeir -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: