From kwade at redhat.com Sun Aug 2 03:24:32 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2009 20:24:32 -0700 Subject: Release Notes Schedule In-Reply-To: <0E09E85B5E6E498DBC0915CDA22B5427@Aidan> References: <192D57B9304543F3BE49371BB709988B@Aidan> <20090727124105.GE13895@localhost.localdomain> <0E09E85B5E6E498DBC0915CDA22B5427@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090802032432.GE7063@calliope.phig.org> (Trimmed recipients to just Docs Team.) On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:12:42AM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > If we do a really good job of wiki grooming, we shouldn't even need that, > but it seems like we always discover a bunch of problems at the last > minute. I was hoping to avoid the last-minute changes that frustrate the > translators so. We used to be very good at this, one challenge has been the way MediaWiki stops sending page change updates if you don't keep a tight watch on it. Perhaps it's time to ... * Review the beat watch process * Teach wider how to watch a beat for content grooming Another idea is to organize a regular beat grooming sessions in IRC, along the model of the QA test days. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From frankly3d at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 16:41:23 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Sun, 02 Aug 2009 17:41:23 +0100 Subject: Is it ok to edit this wiki template? Message-ID: <4A75C1B3.3080701@gmail.com> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Userpage/Infobox&action=edit Can this be updated to include:? skype: msn: -- Regards, Frank jabber | msn | skype: frankly3d http://www.frankly3d.com From ian at ianweller.org Sun Aug 2 19:09:13 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 14:09:13 -0500 Subject: Is it ok to edit this wiki template? In-Reply-To: <4A75C1B3.3080701@gmail.com> References: <4A75C1B3.3080701@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090802190913.GC25074@deathray.ianweller.org> On Sun, Aug 02, 2009 at 05:41:23PM +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Userpage/Infobox&action=edit > > Can this be updated to include:? > skype: msn: > I don't see why not. Copy the code of the page into something under your user space, edit it there, transclude it into your user page (with {{User:Fasname/infobox test}}, make it the name of the page), double and triple check that it works, and then copy that code back into the actual template when you know it works. -- Ian Weller "Why, a four-year-old could understand this report. Find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail out of it." -- Groucho Marx, "Duck Soup" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From noriko at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 01:05:28 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:05:28 +1000 Subject: Release Notes Schedule In-Reply-To: <20090731184049.GX3814@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090727153926.GL17605@localhost.localdomain> <4A6E7F1F.4010908@redhat.com> <2C066D82202C4DC3B34889B3A394772E@Aidan> <4A6F7B13.9000105@redhat.com> <4A6FB3EB.9050406@redhat.com> <9B25474BCF0D4CDC854AEC0E79CDB862@Aidan> <4A7318A7.5070304@redhat.com> <416AE8E0F24C4AC2A53FF917110B4C91@Aidan> <4A733914.2010409@redhat.com> <20090731184049.GX3814@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A7637D8.1040708@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields ????????: > On Fri, Jul 31, 2009 at 11:33:56AM -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > >> John J. McDonough said the following on 07/31/2009 10:34 AM Pacific Time: >> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Poelstra" >>> To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" >>> >>> Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 12:15 PM >>> Subject: Re: Release Notes Schedule >>> >>> >>> >>>> John J. McDonough said the following on 07/29/2009 04:56 PM Pacific >>>> >>>>>> Could someone set up a meeting time and date using >>>>>> www.whenisgood.net? I promise to add my availability and create a >>>>>> text version of the existing schedule that we can then hack >>>>>> through and update together on Gobby. It helps if I am there so I >>>>>> can capture the dependencies between the tasks and embed them in >>>>>> the TaskJuggler source file. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> John >>>>>> >>>>> I think John has the right idea here, but I'm not sure I know who >>>>> all the players need to be. >>>>> >>>>> --McD >>>>> >>>>> >>>> I think all we need is someone with a firm grasp of task details from >>>> both teams plus me. Paul Frields has also joined past meetings and >>>> has provided good insight. My approach lately has been to set up >>>> www.whenisgood.net with my availability and then encourage others to >>>> fill in theirs. >>>> >>>> We really should nail this down sometime next week. >>>> >>> Well, I think Eric and I can cover Docs, and our main point of contact >>> is L10N. I don't have a good grasp on how that team works, but perhaps >>> Dimitris and Noriko are the experts there. I just don't know. >>> >>> --McD >>> >>> >> Yes, we need someone from the translation team to volunteer and be >> available :) >> > > Dimitris and Noriko are both members of the L10n steering group -- > essentially, they are among the people who make sure things are moving > apace in the overall L10n team. It's much the same function as John > McDonough and Eric Christensen, among others, fulfill in Docs. > > I'm here :) Please advise the event name at when is good or point the url so that I can fill my availability. If it will be held on Gobby, I also need some information how to use it as I never use it... fyi, here is Brisbane time, so ideally I like to have it between 1900 and 0900 UTC but can be flexible a bit if needed. noriko From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 2 21:39:35 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 2 Aug 2009 17:39:35 -0400 Subject: Release Notes Schedule In-Reply-To: <20090802032432.GE7063@calliope.phig.org> References: <192D57B9304543F3BE49371BB709988B@Aidan> <20090727124105.GE13895@localhost.localdomain> <0E09E85B5E6E498DBC0915CDA22B5427@Aidan> <20090802032432.GE7063@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20090802213935.GA9751@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, Aug 01, 2009 at 08:24:32PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > (Trimmed recipients to just Docs Team.) > > On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:12:42AM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > > > If we do a really good job of wiki grooming, we shouldn't even need that, > > but it seems like we always discover a bunch of problems at the last > > minute. I was hoping to avoid the last-minute changes that frustrate the > > translators so. > > We used to be very good at this, one challenge has been the way > MediaWiki stops sending page change updates if you don't keep a tight > watch on it. If you put pages on your personal watchlist, you will always receive notices when someone other than you edits the page, IIRC. > Perhaps it's time to ... > > * Review the beat watch process > * Teach wider how to watch a beat for content grooming > > Another idea is to organize a regular beat grooming sessions in IRC, > along the model of the QA test days. Regardless of the watchlist details, these are good ideas! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From noriko at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 01:13:52 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 11:13:52 +1000 Subject: Almost-finalized: Marketing F12 schedule In-Reply-To: <4A710397.7090501@redhat.com> References: <4A6E82C2.1070402@redhat.com> <4A6E881B.4090000@redhat.com> <4A710397.7090501@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A7639D0.2040104@redhat.com> Mel Chua ????????: > (Marketing folks - this was asked on the Docs list in response to this > email, so I thought it might be good to give a fuller explanation.) > >> Hello, >> It might be stupid question, sorry, what is this for? >> Where is 'Localization'? >> noriko > > Thanks for the call-out - I should have been more clear when I sent > out that email. > > This email was basically announcing the almost-final (it will be > frozen on Monday) Marketing schedule of what we'll be working on for > the F12 release. It's here: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_F12_schedule > > I sent it to several other lists (including Docs) because one of the > things we want to make sure is that our schedule is OK for all the > other teams we'll have to work with on a deliverable, or send a > deliverable to. For instance, if Marketing is supposed to make 1-page > release notes for Docs, a milestone for that should be on the > Marketing F12 schedule, and Docs has to be happy with the date of that > Marketing milestone, so we can get stuff to you on time. > > Not all the other teams were listed (for instance, as you pointed out, > Localization wasn't mentioned) because we only have "deliverable due > dates" for a few teams. We'll still be working with, listening to, and > making stuff for all the other teams (and really, anyone working on > Fedora who'd like Marketing help) - this list was just to make sure > big schedule milestones all matched up. If you think we *should* have > specific milestones for a team that isn't listed, please let us know! > > Hope that explains a bit - and please, let me know if I should be > going about this differently, or explaining things better... I'm > trying to go around to coordinate individually with the owners of the > various team schedules, so things should be taken care of, but I also > wanted to let others on the teams that we'll be working with know why > they might at some point get stuff from Marketing, or see Marketing > people show up at particular meetings, and that kind of thing. ;) > > --Mel Thanks a lot for all the information. I now could learn how Fedora Marketing works, and it is excellent! Thanks again! noriko From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 09:15:09 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:15:09 -0400 Subject: [Bug 515190] New: Segmentation fault while executing smbclient command in Fedora 9 32 Bit Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Segmentation fault while executing smbclient command in Fedora 9 32 Bit https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=515190 Summary: Segmentation fault while executing smbclient command in Fedora 9 32 Bit Product: Fedora Hosted Projects Version: unspecified Platform: i386 OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: high Priority: low Component: Deployment_Guide AssignedTo: mhideo at redhat.com ReportedBy: basavaraja_nr at spanservices.com QAContact: rlerch at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Description of problem: Getting "Segmentation", when we try to get a file from windows using smbclient command. Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): [root at fedora32b9 ~]# cat /etc/redhat-release Fedora release 9 (Sulphur) [root at fedora32b9 ~]# How reproducible: Steps to Reproduce: 1. Execute the smb-client command to get a file from Windows. smbclient \\\\10.10.60.5\\share -U administrator 2. Enter the Password, note that you will get a smb prompt. [root at fedora32b9 ~]# smbclient \\\\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx\\share -U administrator Enter administrator's password: Domain=[LIKEWISEADS] OS=[Windows Server 2003 R2 3790 Service Pack 2] Server=[Windows Server 2003 R2 5.2] smb: \> Here, xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx (Intentionally IP is changed to xxx...)- is a windows IP address. share - is a folder from which the files will be copied. 3. Execute the command mget to copy the files. NOTE: While executing the mget command, do not mention "*" or a file name, just enter "mget" and hit Enter. Actual results: Getting the Segmentation fault, no files are listed. Expected results: 1. Should not get the "Segmentation fault" on entering "mget" command without mentioning the files. 2. Should list all the contents of the folder as like other distros Eg: OpenSuSE 10.1 32 Bit. Additional info: [root at fedora32b9 ~]# smbclient \\\\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx\\share -U administrator Enter administrator's password: Domain=[LIKEWISEADS] OS=[Windows Server 2003 R2 3790 Service Pack 2] Server=[Windows Server 2003 R2 5.2] smb: \> mget Segmentation fault [root at fedora32b9 ~]# smbclient \\\\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx\\share -U administrator Enter administrator's password: Domain=[LIKEWISEADS] OS=[Windows Server 2003 R2 3790 Service Pack 2] Server=[Windows Server 2003 R2 5.2] smb: \> mget * Get file imagetool.zip? ^C [root at fedora32b9 ~]# -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 09:21:16 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:21:16 -0400 Subject: [Bug 515190] Segmentation fault while executing smbclient command in Fedora 9 32 Bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908030921.n739LGKt007102@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=515190 Rahul Sundaram changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |CLOSED CC| |sundaram at redhat.com Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #1 from Rahul Sundaram 2009-08-03 05:20:16 EDT --- This bug report was not filed against the right component but Fedora 9 has been End of Life for quite sometime now. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/End_of_life This means you won't be any getting any more updates for this release and will have to upgrade to a newer release. Fedora 10 and Fedora 11 are currently maintained and I encourage you to move to either of them. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 09:40:16 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:40:16 -0400 Subject: [Bug 515190] Segmentation fault while executing smbclient command in Fedora 9 32 Bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908030940.n739eGd1012941@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=515190 Basavaraja N R changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Keywords| |Reopened Status|CLOSED |ASSIGNED Resolution|WONTFIX | --- Comment #2 from Basavaraja N R 2009-08-03 05:40:15 EDT --- Fedora 10 32 Bit ---------------- [root at fedora32b10 ~]# smbclient \\\\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx\\share -U administrator Enter administrator's password: Domain=[LIKEWISEADS] OS=[Windows Server 2003 R2 3790 Service Pack 2] Server=[Windows Server 2003 R2 5.2] smb: \> mget Segmentation fault [root at fedora32b10 ~]# cat /etc/redhat-release Fedora release 10 (Cambridge) [root at fedora32b10 ~]# [root at fedora32b10 ~]# smbclient \\\\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx\\share -U administrator Enter administrator's password: Domain=[LIKEWISEADS] OS=[Windows Server 2003 R2 3790 Service Pack 2] Server=[Windows Server 2003 R2 5.2] smb: \> mget Segmentation fault [root at fedora32b10 ~]# cat /etc/redhat-release Fedora release 10 (Cambridge) [root at fedora32b10 ~]# Fedora 10 64 Bit ---------------- [root at fedora64b10 ~]# cat /etc/redhat-release Fedora release 10 (Cambridge) [root at fedora64b10 ~]# smbclient \\\\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx\\share -U administrator Enter administrator's password: Domain=[LIKEWISEADS] OS=[Windows Server 2003 R2 3790 Service Pack 2] Server=[Windows Server 2003 R2 5.2] smb: \> mget Segmentation fault [root at fedora64b10 ~]# Fedora 11 64 Bit ---------------- [root at Fedora64b11 ~]# smbclient \\\\xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx\\share -U administrator Enter administrator's password: Domain=[LIKEWISEADS] OS=[Windows Server 2003 R2 3790 Service Pack 2] Server=[Windows Server 2003 R2 5.2] smb: \> smb: \> mget nothing to mget smb: \> mget nothing to mget smb: \> mget * Get file imagetool.zip? ^C You have mail in /var/spool/mail/root [root at Fedora64b11 ~]# cat /etc/redhat-release Fedora release 11 (Leonidas) [root at Fedora64b11 ~]# -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 09:45:08 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 05:45:08 -0400 Subject: [Bug 515190] Segmentation fault while executing smbclient command in Fedora 9 32 Bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908030945.n739j8qq014009@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=515190 Rahul Sundaram changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |gdeschner at redhat.com, | |ssorce at redhat.com Component|Deployment_Guide |samba Version|unspecified |11 AssignedTo|mhideo at redhat.com |ssorce at redhat.com Product|Fedora Hosted Projects |Fedora QAContact|rlerch at redhat.com |extras-qa at fedoraproject.org -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 12:47:48 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 18:17:48 +0530 Subject: Review request of welcome and task assignment mail for new ambassadors. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi, This is my first post in this list and I have a review request. The link is: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Welcome_Message_To_New_Ambassadors This is what we send to ambassadors who are interested in joining us. The mail was written in a hurry and there are many places where it can be corrected and improved. Can someone please review it? Thanks. -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= Sent from Calcutta, WB, India From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Aug 3 16:15:57 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:15:57 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican Message-ID: So we need to be able to display the information found on the CC Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States page[1]. Does anyone have any recommendations on how this is displayed? [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ --Eric From stickster at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:24:09 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:24:09 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 12:15:57PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > So we need to be able to display the information found on the CC > Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States page[1]. Does anyone have > any recommendations on how this is displayed? > > [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ Display where? You mean in documents that have been built? Wouldn't that just be a change in the publican-fedora package to the /usr/share/publican/Common_Content/fedora/*/Legal_Notice.xml files? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Aug 3 16:28:13 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:28:13 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:24, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 12:15:57PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> So we need to be able to display the information found on the CC >> Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States page[1]. ?Does anyone have >> any recommendations on how this is displayed? >> >> [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ > > Display where? ?You mean in documents that have been built? ?Wouldn't > that just be a change in the publican-fedora package to the > /usr/share/publican/Common_Content/fedora/*/Legal_Notice.xml files? Yes, which is what I'm talking about. We need to change that text. Do we want to include the CC graphic there as well? >From an existing doc: This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and conditions set forth in the Open Publication License, V1.0 to: This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and conditions set forth in the Creative Commons BY-SA, v3.0, license. --Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Aug 3 16:28:45 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:28:45 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:28, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:24, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 12:15:57PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >>> So we need to be able to display the information found on the CC >>> Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States page[1]. ?Does anyone have >>> any recommendations on how this is displayed? >>> >>> [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ >> >> Display where? ?You mean in documents that have been built? ?Wouldn't >> that just be a change in the publican-fedora package to the >> /usr/share/publican/Common_Content/fedora/*/Legal_Notice.xml files? > > Yes, which is what I'm talking about. ?We need to change that text. > Do we want to include the CC graphic there as well? > > From an existing doc: > This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and > conditions set forth in the Open Publication License, V1.0 > > to: > This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and > conditions set forth in the Creative Commons BY-SA, v3.0, license. > > --Eric > And while I'm thinking about it... are we using the United States license or the unported license? --Eric From stickster at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 16:42:22 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:42:22 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090803164222.GB7182@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 12:28:45PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:28, Eric Christensen wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:24, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 12:15:57PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > >>> So we need to be able to display the information found on the CC > >>> Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States page[1]. ?Does anyone have > >>> any recommendations on how this is displayed? > >>> > >>> [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ > >> > >> Display where? ?You mean in documents that have been built? ?Wouldn't > >> that just be a change in the publican-fedora package to the > >> /usr/share/publican/Common_Content/fedora/*/Legal_Notice.xml files? > > > > Yes, which is what I'm talking about. ?We need to change that text. > > Do we want to include the CC graphic there as well? I don't see a particular need for a graphic, but it wouldn't be a problem although it would have to be included in that common content store as well. I would suggest you file a bug with the particulars of what you want to change, against publican-fedora. > > From an existing doc: > > This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and > > conditions set forth in the Open Publication License, V1.0 > > > > to: > > This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and > > conditions set forth in the Creative Commons BY-SA, v3.0, license. That sounds right to me, with a URL link to the license on the CC site. > > And while I'm thinking about it... are we using the United States > license or the unported license? That's probably a question for fedora-legal-list, but my guess is Unported -- I'm not sure Legal sees the use in the ported version, in any language. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From rfontana at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 16:55:55 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:55:55 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090803125555.36afcb10@calliope> On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:28:13 -0400 Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:24, Paul W. Frields > wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 12:15:57PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> So we need to be able to display the information found on the CC > >> Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States page[1]. ?Does anyone > >> have any recommendations on how this is displayed? > >> > >> [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ > > > > Display where? ?You mean in documents that have been built? > > ?Wouldn't that just be a change in the publican-fedora package to > > the /usr/share/publican/Common_Content/fedora/*/Legal_Notice.xml > > files? > > Yes, which is what I'm talking about. We need to change that text. > Do we want to include the CC graphic there as well? > > >From an existing doc: > This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and > conditions set forth in the Open Publication License, V1.0 > > to: > This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and > conditions set forth in the Creative Commons BY-SA, v3.0, license. I would recommend changing the text further than that. That language is taken directly from the OPL: Proper form for an incorporation by reference is as follows: Copyright (c) by . This material may be distributed only subject to the terms and conditions set forth in the Open Publication License, vX.Y or later (the latest version is presently available at http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/). My recommendation: This document is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license. That can probably be improved on. Also, you may wish to specify how you want attribution to be given. As a separate note, but raised in my mind because of this license change, perhaps the subsequent reference to Fedora trademarks in this Publican legal boilerplate should be accompanied by a pointer to the Fedora trademark guidelines (to clarify that the stylized Fedora mark and the Fedora infinity logo aren't themselves being licensed under CC-BY-SA). - RF From piotrdrag at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:26:06 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:26:06 +0200 Subject: Errors while syncing bugzilla with owners.list In-Reply-To: <20090803182021.E356910F879@bastion2.fedora.phx.redhat.com> References: <20090803182021.E356910F879@bastion2.fedora.phx.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A772BBE.3020208@gmail.com> W dniu 03.08.2009 20:20, accounts at fedoraproject.org pisze: > The following errors were encountered while updating bugzilla with information > from owners.list files. Please have the problem taken care of: > > ({'product': u'Fedora Documentation', 'component': u'readme-burning-isos', 'initialowner': u'oglesbyzm at gmail.com'}, 51, "There is no user named 'oglesbyzm at gmail.com'.\n Either you mis-typed the name or that user has not yet registered\n for a Red Hat Bugzilla account.") > I think someone should do something with this. -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Aug 3 18:46:44 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:46:44 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: <20090803125555.36afcb10@calliope> References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803125555.36afcb10@calliope> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:55, Richard Fontana wrote: > I would recommend changing the text further than that. ?That language is > taken directly from the OPL: > > ?Proper form for an incorporation by reference is as follows: > ?Copyright (c) by . This material > ?may be distributed only subject to the terms and conditions set forth > ?in the Open Publication License, vX.Y or later (the latest version is > ?presently available at http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/). > > My recommendation: > > ?This document is licensed under a Creative Commons > ?Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license. > > That can probably be improved on. ?Also, you may wish to specify how > you want attribution to be given. > > As a separate note, but raised in my mind because of this license > change, perhaps the subsequent reference to Fedora trademarks in this > Publican legal boilerplate should be accompanied by a pointer to the > Fedora trademark guidelines (to clarify that the stylized Fedora mark > and the Fedora infinity logo aren't themselves being licensed under > CC-BY-SA). > > - RF Sorry, I didn't include the entire portion of the legal notice. Here is the complete notice: Copyright ? 2008 Red Hat, Inc. This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and conditions set forth in the Open Publication License, V1.0, (the latest version is presently available at http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/). Fedora and the Fedora Infinity Design logo are trademarks or registered trademarks of Red Hat, Inc., in the U.S. and other countries. Red Hat and the Red Hat "Shadow Man" logo are registered trademarks of Red Hat Inc. in the United States and other countries. All other trademarks and copyrights referred to are the property of their respective owners. Documentation, as with software itself, may be subject to export control. Read about Fedora Project export controls at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/Export. So I'm concentrating on that first paragraph, second sentence only. So we should make it: Copyright ? 2008 Red Hat, Inc. This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and conditions set forth in a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license, (the latest version is presently available at http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/). --Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Aug 3 18:50:11 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:50:11 -0400 Subject: Errors while syncing bugzilla with owners.list In-Reply-To: <4A772BBE.3020208@gmail.com> References: <20090803182021.E356910F879@bastion2.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <4A772BBE.3020208@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 14:26, Piotr Dr?g wrote: > W dniu 03.08.2009 20:20, accounts at fedoraproject.org pisze: >> >> The following errors were encountered while updating bugzilla with >> information >> from owners.list files. ?Please have the problem taken care of: >> >> ({'product': u'Fedora Documentation', 'component': u'readme-burning-isos', >> 'initialowner': u'oglesbyzm at gmail.com'}, 51, "There is no user named >> 'oglesbyzm at gmail.com'.\n ? ? ?Either you mis-typed the name or that user has >> not yet registered\n ? ? ?for a Red Hat Bugzilla account.") >> > > I think someone should do something with this. > > -- > Piotr Dr?g > http://raven.pmail.pl Dang, did I mess this up? I've got to stop making these changes at night. That should be zoglesby but I need to make sure the address is correct. The address I have for Zach is different on FAS. --Eric From piotrdrag at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 18:58:46 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 20:58:46 +0200 Subject: Errors while syncing bugzilla with owners.list In-Reply-To: References: <20090803182021.E356910F879@bastion2.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <4A772BBE.3020208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A773366.3040101@gmail.com> W dniu 03.08.2009 20:50, Eric Christensen pisze: > Dang, did I mess this up? I've got to stop making these changes at > night. That should be zoglesby but I need to make sure the address is > correct. The address I have for Zach is different on FAS. > I don't think you messes up something, it's more likely that readme-burning-isos' owner has changed his Bugzilla e-mail address. That's easy to fix. :) -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From rfontana at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 19:01:19 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:01:19 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803125555.36afcb10@calliope> Message-ID: <20090803150119.04acb2d9@calliope> On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:46:44 -0400 Eric Christensen wrote: > So I'm concentrating on that first paragraph, second sentence only. > So we should make it: > > Copyright ? 2008 Red Hat, Inc. This material may only be distributed > subject to the terms and conditions set forth in a Creative Commons > Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license, (the latest version is > presently available at > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/). That's the sentence I was recommending should be changed, because the existing language is derived from the now-disfavored OPL -- since you're going to be changing the sentence anyway to change the license reference. - RF From a.badger at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 19:00:09 2009 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 12:00:09 -0700 Subject: Errors while syncing bugzilla with owners.list In-Reply-To: References: <20090803182021.E356910F879@bastion2.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <4A772BBE.3020208@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7733B9.2060506@gmail.com> On 08/03/2009 11:50 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 14:26, Piotr Dr?g wrote: >> W dniu 03.08.2009 20:20, accounts at fedoraproject.org pisze: >>> >>> The following errors were encountered while updating bugzilla with >>> information >>> from owners.list files. Please have the problem taken care of: >>> >>> ({'product': u'Fedora Documentation', 'component': u'readme-burning-isos', >>> 'initialowner': u'oglesbyzm at gmail.com'}, 51, "There is no user named >>> 'oglesbyzm at gmail.com'.\n Either you mis-typed the name or that user has >>> not yet registered\n for a Red Hat Bugzilla account.") >>> >> >> I think someone should do something with this. >> >> -- >> Piotr Dr?g >> http://raven.pmail.pl > > Dang, did I mess this up? I've got to stop making these changes at > night. That should be zoglesby but I need to make sure the address is > correct. The address I have for Zach is different on FAS. > this error means that the email address listed doesn't exist in bugzilla. Usually the person has several email addresses that htey use but only one of them maps to a bugzilla email so you have to ask them which is the correct one to use. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Aug 3 19:04:20 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:04:20 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: <20090803150119.04acb2d9@calliope> References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803125555.36afcb10@calliope> <20090803150119.04acb2d9@calliope> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 15:01, Richard Fontana wrote: > On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:46:44 -0400 > Eric Christensen wrote: > >> So I'm concentrating on that first paragraph, second sentence only. >> So we should make it: >> >> Copyright ? 2008 Red Hat, Inc. This material may only be distributed >> subject to the terms and conditions set forth in a Creative Commons >> Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license, (the latest version is >> presently available at >> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/). > > That's the sentence I was recommending should be changed, because the > existing language is derived from the now-disfavored OPL -- since you're > going to be changing the sentence anyway to change the license > reference. > > ?- RF So you like how I changed it? --Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Aug 3 19:05:32 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:05:32 -0400 Subject: Errors while syncing bugzilla with owners.list In-Reply-To: <4A7733B9.2060506@gmail.com> References: <20090803182021.E356910F879@bastion2.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <4A772BBE.3020208@gmail.com> <4A7733B9.2060506@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 15:00, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On 08/03/2009 11:50 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: >> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 14:26, Piotr Dr?g wrote: >>> W dniu 03.08.2009 20:20, accounts at fedoraproject.org pisze: >>>> >>>> The following errors were encountered while updating bugzilla with >>>> information >>>> from owners.list files. ?Please have the problem taken care of: >>>> >>>> ({'product': u'Fedora Documentation', 'component': u'readme-burning-isos', >>>> 'initialowner': u'oglesbyzm at gmail.com'}, 51, "There is no user named >>>> 'oglesbyzm at gmail.com'.\n ? ? ?Either you mis-typed the name or that user has >>>> not yet registered\n ? ? ?for a Red Hat Bugzilla account.") >>>> >>> >>> I think someone should do something with this. >>> >>> -- >>> Piotr Dr?g >>> http://raven.pmail.pl >> >> Dang, did I mess this up? ?I've got to stop making these changes at >> night. ?That should be zoglesby but I need to make sure the address is >> correct. ?The address I have for Zach is different on FAS. >> > this error means that the email address listed doesn't exist in > bugzilla. ? Usually the person has several email addresses that htey use > but only one of them maps to a bugzilla email so you have to ask them > which is the correct one to use. > > -Toshio Yeah, Zach just shot me a message saying that he had changed his email address. I can fix it tonight unless you want to make the change. It should be zoglesby at zach.tk, now. --Eric From piotrdrag at gmail.com Mon Aug 3 19:19:23 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Mon, 03 Aug 2009 21:19:23 +0200 Subject: Errors while syncing bugzilla with owners.list In-Reply-To: References: <20090803182021.E356910F879@bastion2.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <4A772BBE.3020208@gmail.com> <4A7733B9.2060506@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A77383B.4000109@gmail.com> W dniu 03.08.2009 21:05, Eric Christensen pisze: > Yeah, Zach just shot me a message saying that he had changed his email > address. I can fix it tonight unless you want to make the change. It > should be zoglesby at zach.tk, now. > Thanks for asking him. I've fixed it, so I won't receive another reminders (one for every hour)... -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 19:25:27 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:25:27 -0700 Subject: how can I help? In-Reply-To: References: <1248131276.6035.46.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <20090803192527.GP7063@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 07:53:32PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > The one thing that I *can* find on the wiki is the release notes beat > pages, and that is only because I know where the index is. Most of the > other pages have nothing pointing to them, so you can only find a page by > sheer dumb luck. We had hoped to make the search function useable by > renaming the pages, but that doesn't seem to have succeeded, and we lost > the ability to navigate a tree in the attempt. This probably has more to do with pages that are not renamed and pages that are not in any useful category. What have you tried to find and not been able to? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ian at ianweller.org Mon Aug 3 19:27:52 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:27:52 -0500 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803125555.36afcb10@calliope> <20090803150119.04acb2d9@calliope> Message-ID: <20090803192752.GA3999@deathray.ianweller.org> On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 03:04:20PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 15:01, Richard Fontana wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:46:44 -0400 > > Eric Christensen wrote: > > > >> So I'm concentrating on that first paragraph, second sentence only. > >> So we should make it: > >> > >> Copyright ? 2008 Red Hat, Inc. This material may only be distributed > >> subject to the terms and conditions set forth in a Creative Commons > >> Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license, (the latest version is > >> presently available at > >> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/). > > > > That's the sentence I was recommending should be changed, because the > > existing language is derived from the now-disfavored OPL -- since you're > > going to be changing the sentence anyway to change the license > > reference. > > > > ?- RF > > So you like how I changed it? > I thought this was the "correct" way: """ Copyright ? 2009 Red Hat, Inc and others. This material is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License. """ ... with a link surrounding [Creative .. License] to http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/. -- Ian Weller "Why, a four-year-old could understand this report. Find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail out of it." -- Groucho Marx, "Duck Soup" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 19:30:50 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:30:50 -0700 Subject: how can I help? In-Reply-To: <1248116536.6035.37.camel@adam.local.net> References: <653b25610907140830kf6678e8j9343e97f7399e30e@mail.gmail.com> <15B2519003F145F6B486334DF6970C57@Aidan> <653b25610907151339t7ab07f3ejc0fae034569b0e8e@mail.gmail.com> <20090716220259.GD24072@calliope.phig.org> <1248116536.6035.37.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <20090803193050.GQ7063@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Jul 20, 2009 at 12:02:16PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > I hate to be a stop-energy-spreader, but I'm not a big fan of the 'ten > thousand tiny pages' school of documentation. It winds up with two major > drawbacks: you can't ever find anything, and nothing gets updated. > (Visit the Gentoo wiki to observe both in operation). Short answer -- transclusion works, what's the problem? Both problems are a human process issue -- we need to create landing pages (categories?) that help people find things; we need to mark pages as needing regular updating so they don't get forgotten. > Most issues that are encountered on #fedora or forums, for instance, > should be documented in either the Common Issues page, or the Release > Notes. This was mostly what my earlier (long) email to the list was > about, which no-one seemed to reply to. I really think it's better to > keep things in some semblance of organization in central, canonical > pages, rather than having zillions of single-issue pages... Functionally, it's the same thing. Atomic wiki articles can be gathered in to a single common issues or release notes. One big document is daunting to some people, so it's nice to be able to regather those same articles under a different title. This is where categories work for us. If an article, such as [[Enabling sudo in Fedora]], were in these categories: [[Category:F10]] [[Category:F11]] [[Category:Release notes]] [[Category:How to]] [[Category:Installing software]] [[Category:Essential sysadmin skills]] etc. Then each of those category pages becomes a single document, easy to find, that has variable length depending on the subject matter. The thing is, one REALLY BIG MULTIPLE KB page in MediaWiki has problems. I'm willing to trust upstream on this -- if they warn about 32kb+ pages, there is a reason. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From rfontana at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 19:34:01 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:34:01 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803125555.36afcb10@calliope> <20090803150119.04acb2d9@calliope> Message-ID: <20090803153401.2aec1dbb@calliope> On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 15:04:20 -0400 Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 15:01, Richard Fontana > wrote: > > On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 14:46:44 -0400 > > Eric Christensen wrote: > > > >> So I'm concentrating on that first paragraph, second sentence only. > >> So we should make it: > >> > >> Copyright ? 2008 Red Hat, Inc. This material may only be > >> distributed subject to the terms and conditions set forth in a > >> Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license, (the > >> latest version is presently available at > >> http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/). > > > > That's the sentence I was recommending should be changed, because > > the existing language is derived from the now-disfavored OPL -- > > since you're going to be changing the sentence anyway to change the > > license reference. > > > > ?- RF > > So you like how I changed it? No, sorry, I'm being unclear. :) This is a small point but one I feel is worth making: The OPL text contains a "proper" form of an OPL license notice. Someone, presumably Red Hat Legal, decided to use this license notice language in OPL-licensed Red Hat and Fedora documentation. Since we're no longer using the OPL, no need to use that OPL-specific license notice language anymore either. If we were starting from scratch without ever having used the OPL, I do not think we would have come up with that actual wording, although there's nothing wrong with it in principle. I'm therefore recommending a more matter-of-fact license notice which I believe is more in keeping with the CC universe and doesn't have the "you are forbidden from doing this" emphasis I detect in the OPL language: This document is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported license. This is not a recommendation with any legal basis; it's aesthetics. - RF From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 19:37:18 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:37:18 -0700 Subject: Project Start: New Updated Deployment Guide for the Upcoming Fedora 12! In-Reply-To: <4A6DF57D.30102@redhat.com> References: <4A6DF57D.30102@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090803193718.GR7063@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 08:44:13PM +0200, Douglas Silas Hensley wrote: > Greetings Fedora users and system administrators, > > I meant to announce this last week on fedora-docs-list, but the CC > slipped my mind. Here's copy of the announcement I sent to > deployment-guide-list at redhat.com. See the Deployment Guide wiki: Pardon the side-step question, but your slippage of the CC brings this forward. A number of guides have been forming with their own discussion list, rather than doing *all* Fedora docs discussions on fedora-docs-list. Has this been working well? Are you getting people not @redhat.com participating on those lists? Is the parsing of discussion to a different area helping the project grow? Are you getting more contributors? I understand that one of the original reasons was to have a location to assign bugzilla reports, instead of flooding this list. Are the separate lists helping? As upstream maintainers, you are of course welcome to do as you wish. I'm just wondering if you have determined yet if the idea is successful? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 19:48:22 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:48:22 -0700 Subject: Fedora Desktop Guide Update In-Reply-To: <17cd57cf0907190822x5ea41054n5d778e6175f025ce@mail.gmail.com> References: <17cd57cf0907190822x5ea41054n5d778e6175f025ce@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090803194822.GS7063@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, Jul 19, 2009 at 11:22:45AM -0400, Matthew Daniels wrote: > At last week's FDSCo meeting, I blabbered along for a few minutes concerning > where I wanted to go with the User Guide (and, subsequently, that I thought > we should rename it). Sorry I missed that. Just wanted to throw in the historical bit on naming around content for this target audience. The term 'desktop' has a lot of different meanings. If I have a laptop, does this book apply to me? What if it's an OLPC XO running Fedora? Or a thin client at my school? It looks like a desktop because it has a keyboard, mouse, and monitor, but it may not even have a visible tower ... The term 'user' is also ambiguous, but more inclusive. So, while renaming is still under discussion, and in light of the tighter audience definitions made so far, is there a "better" or even a "best" term to throw in there? Fedora User Guide Fedora Desktop Guide Fedora Computer User Guide Guide to Using Fedora How to Use Fedora Making Fedora Work for You As techies, we get caught up in the "Product * Guide" naming scheme. What is different that isn't just stealing titles from existing books? On the last note -- we should refer to some nice documentation that says how to use a mouse and such. That is, we need to fit above the level of total computer basics. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 19:55:55 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:55:55 -0700 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: <20090803164222.GB7182@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803164222.GB7182@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090803195555.GT7063@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 12:42:22PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > I don't see a particular need for a graphic, but it wouldn't be a > problem although it would have to be included in that common content > store as well. I would suggest you file a bug with the particulars of > what you want to change, against publican-fedora. Since the CC people do such a good job of spreading their useful graphics, I recommend we use them. It helps carry the meaning. Aesthetics. All that. > That's probably a question for fedora-legal-list, but my guess is > Unported -- I'm not sure Legal sees the use in the ported version, in > any language. Richard Fontana replied to this discussion clarifying that it is the unported. Sorry if I left that an open question -- I did clarify via fedora-legal-list a few weeks ago. http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-legal-list/2009-July/msg00028.html - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 20:40:18 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 13:40:18 -0700 Subject: Reviewed: [[Welcome_Message_To_New_Ambassadors]] Message-ID: <20090803204018.GU7063@calliope.phig.org> Susmit: Sorry to break the threading, I accidentally deleted your original email. Your welcome message made a nice review over lunch today: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Welcome_Message_To_New_Ambassadors I made changes directly because I didn't see anything substantive that I changed. That is, I don't think I changed any meaning, just did some grammar adjustments and clarifications. Please read my changes carefully -- I'm not as familiar with the updated mentoring guidelines as I should be. :) There is one issue in the instructions -- it directs the new potential Ambassador to get aggregated on Fedora Planet. However, that requires being in a FAS group already (plus having signed the CLA.) If the Ambassador-to-be is not already in the 'ambassadors' group, they have to belong to another group, too. Maybe that was the intention? I note the mandatory-in-India step of contributing to another group. Is that the secret solution? One concern is that we'll get an influx of people to low-barrier groups, such as 'docs', who are just interested in getting their FAS group to get aggregated and fulfill Ambassador requirements. I could foresee a chain-reaction of people raising barriers in groups to block against that. Also, it is possible to contribute to various projects without joining the group. One could write wiki documentation or be involved in QA test days without belonging to the 'docs' or 'qa' groups. Would it be possible to have the candidate bring proof of that instead of being required to have joined another group? In other words, if they are going to join e.g. 'docs' just to get in to 'ambassadors', they are less likely to sustain contributions to the Docs Team. (It's OK if people don't want to remain a Docs contributor, we just need to set the expectations all around.) cheers - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 20:42:17 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:42:17 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908032042.n73KgHte026081@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 John (J5) Palmieri changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |johnp at redhat.com --- Comment #7 from John (J5) Palmieri 2009-08-03 16:42:16 EDT --- Highslide JS is just another image gallery lightbox. JW FLV Player should be easy to replace with http://metavid.org/w/index.php/Mv_embed and move to using the video tag. Since we should be uploading ogg this means that we will get native ogg support depending on how the component uses the player. Which brings me to a question. Does anyone have these components running somewhere so I can see how they utilize the javascript libraries? Tree menus should be easy to rewrite but I'm not sure if they are the best UI elements out there. I would have to see this component in action. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 20:52:08 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 16:52:08 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908032052.n73Kq8ud030821@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 --- Comment #8 from John (J5) Palmieri 2009-08-03 16:52:07 EDT --- Javascript side of the cropper should be easy to replace with this mit licensed cropper: http://marqueetool.net/ -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 21:00:54 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:00:54 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908032100.n73L0slD032540@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 --- Comment #9 from John (J5) Palmieri 2009-08-03 17:00:53 EDT --- BTW The current cropper is the new/simplified BSD license (GPL Compatible) or at least that is what he links to but the copyright notice seems to add some clauses. I would run it through legal and contact him. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Aug 3 21:05:26 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 17:05:26 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908032105.n73L5Qjn030685@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 --- Comment #10 from John (J5) Palmieri 2009-08-03 17:05:26 EDT --- Actually, looking at the OSI page for the BSD license http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php "All rights reserved" is clearly the correct verbiage. JavaScript Image Cropper UI has the OSI approved BSD license copied verbatim so no issue there. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From r.landmann at redhat.com Tue Aug 4 03:35:30 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 13:35:30 +1000 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: <20090803195555.GT7063@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803164222.GB7182@localhost.localdomain> <20090803195555.GT7063@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4A77AC82.2050602@redhat.com> How does this look? http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ To make this work, we would need to ship the CC-BY-SA logo as part of the publican-fedora brand package. Cheers Rudi From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 07:02:01 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 12:32:01 +0530 Subject: Reviewed: [[Welcome_Message_To_New_Ambassadors]] In-Reply-To: <20090803204018.GU7063@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090803204018.GU7063@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: Hi, > Sorry to break the threading, I accidentally deleted your original > email. ?Your welcome message made a nice review over lunch today: Thanks a lot for the review. :) > I made changes directly because I didn't see anything substantive that > I changed. That is, I don't think I changed any meaning, just did > some grammar adjustments and clarifications. I also wanted that but refrained considering it might not be a polite request. >?Please read my changes > carefully -- I'm not as familiar with the updated mentoring guidelines > as I should be. :) No, it is just fine and clear. > There is one issue in the instructions -- it directs the new potential > Ambassador to get aggregated on Fedora Planet. ?However, that requires > being in a FAS group already (plus having signed the CLA.) ?If the > Ambassador-to-be is not already in the 'ambassadors' group, they have > to belong to another group, too. No, this was a more of an intentional fallacy. I (we) wanted to check if the participants are serious enough to explore that much and report back that it is not doable. > One concern is that we'll get an influx of people to low-barrier > groups, such as 'docs', who are just interested in getting their FAS > group to get aggregated and fulfill Ambassador requirements. ?I could > foresee a chain-reaction of people raising barriers in groups to block > against that. ?Also, it is possible to contribute to various projects > without joining the group. ?One could write wiki documentation or be > involved in QA test days without belonging to the 'docs' or 'qa' > groups. > Would it be possible to have the candidate bring proof of that instead > of being required to have joined another group? ?In other words, if > they are going to join e.g. 'docs' just to get in to 'ambassadors', > they are less likely to sustain contributions to the Docs Team. ?(It's > OK if people don't want to remain a Docs contributor, we just need to > set the expectations all around.) Yes, your concern seem very reasonable. I never gave it a thought, so thanks for pointing it out. We are discussing this and would link to change it to something more productive very soon. Thanks again for the review and now the draft looks much better. :) -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= Sent from Calcutta, WB, India From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Aug 4 11:04:57 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:34:57 +0530 Subject: Need Feedback on HOWTO wiki created by /me. In-Reply-To: <4A71C63D.8040804@redhat.com> References: <9f45b2730907100830h7fbe5577k67ac3d5e6fe4bb65@mail.gmail.com> <1247240752.2520.28.camel@thunder.christensenplace.us> <20090710165742.GF3196@alpha.rzhou.org> <9f45b2730907101009x18b7a491y2e55ded93fbe8773@mail.gmail.com> <1247245998.2520.35.camel@thunder.christensenplace.us> <20090730154239.GC23791@alpha.rzhou.org> <4A71C63D.8040804@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A7815D9.9090407@fedoraproject.org> On 07/30/2009 09:41 PM, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Not a bad idea, but links are cheap, so perhaps we could link to both? Cross linking these guides would be useful as well. Rahul From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Tue Aug 4 11:20:01 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 16:50:01 +0530 Subject: Back to work with revised to-dos Message-ID: <146c63b10908040420u2a83d7b3gca6c245cb96eb826@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I apologise for the inactivity for the past few days. I am now in Pune and finished the initial procedures for joining RH. I can work regularly from now. I will start off with the revised to-dos starting from getting beacon in fedora. I just had a discussion with Nandeep about making having beacon in fedora priority #1. He agreed too in his mail of which I am pasting a snippet here (with his permission) to give you an idea of what will be up on his agenda. So far the idea is to have me concentrate on getting beacon integrated with FAS, Zikula etc. while he works on core beacon improvements and adds more features to make it really usable. "So after lots of people jumping in and out of this project and lukewarm response, I think the best way to roll this out is as a standalone product firmly deployed somewhere. For a proper end user product which users can employ to their benefits we need a cloud set-up pretty much like what Google Docs has to offer. For this I can think of the following core features that are absolutely essential for a release (these are technical mostly): 1. Copy paste handling to prevent crappy HTML generation. 2. Revision history and being able to revert back to other revisions 3. Undo redo stack 4. Be able to add media like pictures. 5. File browser for documents 6. Directly related to above point: an account system like Google Docs so per user cloud can exist. (For your Fedora system as mentioned, it can be FAS) 7. Be able to download the file in various formats (publican, you already have some work done on it). Now we have to decide how much of this to implement within your GSoC period or whatever it is that your revised schedule allows." The last line also made me wonder if my deliverables for GSoC have changed. It would be very convenient for me to know what is my to-do from GSoC perspective. I am not limiting this project till SoC and will make sure I work on it till it is in production use but knowing what is expected for SoC can help me order the tasks accordingly. Regards, Satya From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Aug 4 13:03:51 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 09:03:51 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: <4A77AC82.2050602@redhat.com> References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803164222.GB7182@localhost.localdomain> <20090803195555.GT7063@calliope.phig.org> <4A77AC82.2050602@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 23:35, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > How does this look? > > http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ > > To make this work, we would need to ship the CC-BY-SA logo as part of the > publican-fedora brand package. > > Cheers > Rudi Looks good to me. --Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Aug 4 14:36:56 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 4 Aug 2009 10:36:56 -0400 Subject: Proposal for policy for reviewing Publican packages Message-ID: I've updated my policy proposals[1], slightly, and I'd like input before submitting them to FPC and FESCo. I'd like to get these proposals in front of their eyes this week. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Policy_for_reviewing_Publican_documents --Eric From jwulf at redhat.com Tue Aug 4 22:17:40 2009 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:17:40 +1000 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803164222.GB7182@localhost.localdomain> <20090803195555.GT7063@calliope.phig.org> <4A77AC82.2050602@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A78B384.9000106@redhat.com> On 08/04/2009 11:03 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 23:35, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > >> How does this look? >> >> http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ >> >> To make this work, we would need to ship the CC-BY-SA logo as part of the >> publican-fedora brand package. >> >> Cheers >> Rudi >> > > Looks good to me. > > --Eric > > What about details of attribution? Do we want to specify how people have to credit us? With a link? Do we want to give them a boiler plate include? -- Joshua J Wulf Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific eml: jwulf at redhat.com tel: +61 (0)7 3514 8140 mob: +61 (0)431 929 675 tmz: GMT +10 (0) - omit when dialling internationally -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 01:19:58 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 11:19:58 +1000 Subject: Need Feedback on HOWTO wiki created by /me. In-Reply-To: <4A7815D9.9090407@fedoraproject.org> References: <9f45b2730907100830h7fbe5577k67ac3d5e6fe4bb65@mail.gmail.com> <1247240752.2520.28.camel@thunder.christensenplace.us> <20090710165742.GF3196@alpha.rzhou.org> <9f45b2730907101009x18b7a491y2e55ded93fbe8773@mail.gmail.com> <1247245998.2520.35.camel@thunder.christensenplace.us> <20090730154239.GC23791@alpha.rzhou.org> <4A71C63D.8040804@redhat.com> <4A7815D9.9090407@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4A78DE3E.1060607@redhat.com> On 08/04/2009 09:04 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Cross linking these guides would be useful as well. > > True! The IQSG already includes a link to the IG -- http://docs.fedoraproject.org/installation-quick-start-guide/f11/en-US/html-single/#Introduction For the next edition of the IG (ready soon), I'll make sure that there's a link in the other direction too. Cheers Rudi From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Aug 5 02:28:45 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:28:45 -0400 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: <4A78B384.9000106@redhat.com> References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803164222.GB7182@localhost.localdomain> <20090803195555.GT7063@calliope.phig.org> <4A77AC82.2050602@redhat.com> <4A78B384.9000106@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1249439326.2661.5.camel@thunder> On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 08:17 +1000, Joshua Wulf wrote: > On 08/04/2009 11:03 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 23:35, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > > > > > How does this look? > > > > > > http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ > > > > > > To make this work, we would need to ship the CC-BY-SA logo as part of the > > > publican-fedora brand package. > > > > > > Cheers > > > Rudi > > > > > > > Looks good to me. > > > > --Eric > > > > > What about details of attribution? Do we want to specify how people > have to credit us? With a link? Do we want to give them a boiler plate > include? > > -- > Joshua J Wulf > Engineering Content Services > Red Hat Asia Pacific > > eml: jwulf at redhat.com > tel: +61 (0)7 3514 8140 > mob: +61 (0)431 929 675 > tmz: GMT +10 > > (0) - omit when dialling internationally > -- We haven't provided this before, have we? --Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jwulf at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 02:41:27 2009 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 12:41:27 +1000 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: <1249439326.2661.5.camel@thunder> References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803164222.GB7182@localhost.localdomain> <20090803195555.GT7063@calliope.phig.org> <4A77AC82.2050602@redhat.com> <4A78B384.9000106@redhat.com> <1249439326.2661.5.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A78F157.8060109@redhat.com> On 08/05/2009 12:28 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Wed, 2009-08-05 at 08:17 +1000, Joshua Wulf wrote: > >> On 08/04/2009 11:03 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 23:35, Ruediger Landmann wrote: >>> >>> >>>> How does this look? >>>> >>>> http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ >>>> >>>> To make this work, we would need to ship the CC-BY-SA logo as part of the >>>> publican-fedora brand package. >>>> >>>> Cheers >>>> Rudi >>>> >>>> >>> Looks good to me. >>> >>> --Eric >>> >>> >>> >> What about details of attribution? Do we want to specify how people >> have to credit us? With a link? Do we want to give them a boiler plate >> include? >> >> -- >> Joshua J Wulf >> Engineering Content Services >> Red Hat Asia Pacific >> >> eml: jwulf at redhat.com >> tel: +61 (0)7 3514 8140 >> mob: +61 (0)431 929 675 >> tmz: GMT +10 >> >> (0) - omit when dialling internationally >> -- >> > > We haven't provided this before, have we? > > --Eric > To my knowledge the answer to this is "no". I'm not sure how much bearing a precedent has on this. We haven't provided the material under a CC 3.0 BY-SA license before. http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FFAQ#How_do_I_properly_attribute_a_Creative_Commons_licensed_work.3F Why are we specifying attribution in the license? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Wed Aug 5 03:08:55 2009 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:08:55 +1000 Subject: Project Start: New Updated Deployment Guide for the Upcoming Fedora 12! In-Reply-To: <20090803193718.GR7063@calliope.phig.org> References: <4A6DF57D.30102@redhat.com> <20090803193718.GR7063@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <95f1114b0908042008x8741a61u78a24a004819bbc8@mail.gmail.com> > Are you getting people not @redhat.com participating on those lists? Yes. Does it matter where contributor comes from? Surely having someone paid to work on something full time helps? If I had an open source project I would love an @redhat.com contributing to it. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Aug 5 03:27:46 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 08:57:46 +0530 Subject: Project Start: New Updated Deployment Guide for the Upcoming Fedora 12! In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0908042008x8741a61u78a24a004819bbc8@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A6DF57D.30102@redhat.com> <20090803193718.GR7063@calliope.phig.org> <95f1114b0908042008x8741a61u78a24a004819bbc8@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A78FC32.5080708@fedoraproject.org> On 08/05/2009 08:38 AM, Murray McAllister wrote: >> Are you getting people not @redhat.com participating on those lists? > Yes. > > Does it matter where contributor comes from? Yes it does. A diverse contributor (and user) base is one of the hall marks of a successful free and open source project but the context of the question is important and you seem to be missing it. If every guide has its own mailing list, it scatters the discussions related to Fedora documentation over many places and that has a cost. If was there a diverse base of people discussing in length about a particular document, then perhaps a new mailing list is justified but is not necessarily a good idea to start with one. Rahul From ccurran at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 04:17:56 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:17:56 +1000 Subject: Project Start: New Updated Deployment Guide for the Upcoming Fedora 12! In-Reply-To: <4A78FC32.5080708@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A6DF57D.30102@redhat.com> <20090803193718.GR7063@calliope.phig.org> <95f1114b0908042008x8741a61u78a24a004819bbc8@mail.gmail.com> <4A78FC32.5080708@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4A7907F4.4060406@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 08/05/2009 08:38 AM, Murray McAllister wrote: > >>> Are you getting people not @redhat.com participating on those lists? >>> >> Yes. >> >> Does it matter where contributor comes from? >> > > Yes it does. A diverse contributor (and user) base is one of the hall > marks of a successful free and open source project but the context of > the question is important and you seem to be missing it. > > I welcome anyone to join my project. That said, I'm not going to implement a quota system just because you don't like the balance of contributors. > If every guide has its own mailing list, it scatters the discussions > related to Fedora documentation over many places and that has a cost. If > was there a diverse base of people discussing in length about a > particular document, then perhaps a new mailing list is justified but is > not necessarily a good idea to start with one. > > Sure, it will disperse some discussion. Having a tight knit, focused team in a private mailing list is a "good thing" though. It allows people to focus on actual work instead of irrelevant noise. This allows people to produce better documentation. I fail to see how this is a problem as most issues that affect all of fedora-docs will still be raised here. Chris From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 04:40:02 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 14:40:02 +1000 Subject: License Change... Publican In-Reply-To: <4A78F157.8060109@redhat.com> References: <20090803162409.GB3407@localhost.localdomain> <20090803164222.GB7182@localhost.localdomain> <20090803195555.GT7063@calliope.phig.org> <4A77AC82.2050602@redhat.com> <4A78B384.9000106@redhat.com> <1249439326.2661.5.camel@thunder> <4A78F157.8060109@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A790D22.9080102@redhat.com> On 08/05/2009 12:41 PM, Joshua Wulf wrote: > > http://wiki.creativecommons.org/FFAQ#How_do_I_properly_attribute_a_Creative_Commons_licensed_work.3F > > Why are we specifying attribution in the license? > If for no other reason than Attribution is a component of all Creative Commons licenses ? http://creativecommons.org/licenses/ The link that you provided above contains the following advice: "If the copyright holder has not specified any particular way to attribute them, this does not mean that you do not have to give attribution. It simply means that you will have to give attribution to the best of your ability with the information you do have." I guess our options here include: 0. Say nothing about the form of attribution that we want (as depicted in the demo I put together), and rely on the text I quoted above. 1. Include a link to that section of the Creative Commons website. 2. Link to a page on fedoraproject.org that spells out a specific form of attribution that we would like (similar to Wikipedia's: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Terms_of_Use ? see "Information for re-users"). 3. Spell out a specific form of attribution that we would like, in the document itself. I guess the choice between 2. and 3. might depend on how long and complex that spelling out is. For example, I wouldn't like to see something like Wikipedia's "Information for re-users" included on the title page of every document, but how about something along these lines? "If you copy, distribute, or adapt content from this document, your version must include the original copyright notice and license, cite the title of this document, and credit the names of the people or groups credited at its start. If you adapt or alter the document, you must clearly identify that your version differs from or adapts the original." Cheers Rudi From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Aug 5 04:54:55 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 10:24:55 +0530 Subject: Project Start: New Updated Deployment Guide for the Upcoming Fedora 12! In-Reply-To: <4A7907F4.4060406@redhat.com> References: <4A6DF57D.30102@redhat.com> <20090803193718.GR7063@calliope.phig.org> <95f1114b0908042008x8741a61u78a24a004819bbc8@mail.gmail.com> <4A78FC32.5080708@fedoraproject.org> <4A7907F4.4060406@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A79109F.8020303@fedoraproject.org> On 08/05/2009 09:47 AM, Christopher Curran wrote: > Sure, it will disperse some discussion. Having a tight knit, focused > team in a private mailing list is a "good thing" though. It allows > people to focus on actual work instead of irrelevant noise. This allows > people to produce better documentation. I fail to see how this is a > problem as most issues that affect all of fedora-docs will still be > raised here. It is a problem of lack of visibility. If more of the discussions happen in the larger mailing list, then more of the casual observers are bound to provide some input. For example, if the installation guide discussions were in a seperate mailing list, I wouldn't have bothered to subscribe to it to give the couple of suggestions I did. Rahul From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 15:46:37 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 11:46:37 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504068] Update task lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908051546.n75FkbT0015471@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504068 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |CLOSED CC| |eric at christensenplace.us Resolution| |CURRENTRELEASE AssignedTo|kwade at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 16:13:22 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:13:22 -0400 Subject: [Bug 466676] problem with package paraview.x86_64 3.2.1-3.fc8 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908051613.n75GDM3t025564@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=466676 Ricky Zhou changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |CLOSED CC| |rzhou at redhat.com Resolution| |WONTFIX --- Comment #1 from Ricky Zhou 2009-08-05 12:13:21 EDT --- Hi, sorry this bug got lost - it was reported in the wrong component, which doesn't get much attention anymore. Fedora 8 is no longer supported now, but if this problem still exists in F10 or F11, can you please submit a bug under the Fedora product and paraview component? Thanks. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 16:39:01 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:39:01 -0400 Subject: [Bug 479470] cobbler kssendmac and breed suse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908051639.n75Gd1Tj000383@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=479470 Ricky Zhou changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |mdehaan at redhat.com, | |rzhou at redhat.com Component|Deployment_Guide |cobbler Version|unspecified |10 AssignedTo|mhideo at redhat.com |mdehaan at redhat.com Product|Fedora Hosted Projects |Fedora QAContact|rlerch at redhat.com |extras-qa at fedoraproject.org --- Comment #1 from Ricky Zhou 2009-08-05 12:39:00 EDT --- Moving this to the cobbler component, Fedora product. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 16:41:16 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:41:16 -0400 Subject: [Bug 479470] cobbler kssendmac and breed suse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908051641.n75GfGUR001590@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=479470 Ricky Zhou changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Version|10 |9 --- Comment #2 from Ricky Zhou 2009-08-05 12:41:16 EDT --- Oops, I misread the release - can you check if this is still a bug in F10 or F11 and close this if it's fixed? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Aug 5 16:46:24 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 12:46:24 -0400 Subject: REMINDER: Docs Project Meeting Message-ID: REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings. If you have anything you'd like to add to the agenda, please do so before 2330 UTC. Thanks, Eric From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 17:32:21 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 13:32:21 -0400 Subject: [Bug 479470] cobbler kssendmac and breed suse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908051732.n75HWLov015950@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=479470 --- Comment #3 from David Quenzler 2009-08-05 13:32:20 EDT --- I just checked the 1.6.8 source, utils.py still has the same code. It's not fixed yet. +===+ # determine if we have room to add kssendmac to the kernel options line kernel_txt = hash_to_string(results["kernel_options"]) if len(kernel_txt) < 244: results["kernel_options"]["kssendmac"] = None +===+ -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 18:10:32 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:10:32 -0400 Subject: [Bug 479470] cobbler kssendmac and breed suse In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908051810.n75IAW5V025901@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=479470 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Aug 5 18:48:21 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:48:21 -0400 Subject: License changeover timeline Message-ID: I've created a timeline[1] of the events that need to happen to get this license changeover complete. I'd like to officially kick it off on Friday. Please look over it and provide input/changes as necessary. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule Thanks, Eric From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 18:52:56 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:52:56 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504063] Toolchain next steps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908051852.n75Iqu4R005342@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504063 --- Comment #5 from Eric Christensen 2009-08-05 14:52:56 EDT --- With the release of Publican 1.0, I think most of these concerns have been addressed. As far as multiple languages, Publican creates SRPMs that look like -- so you could install every language a guide came in if you wanted. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 19:00:14 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 15:00:14 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908051900.n75J0EKi007145@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Bug 504066 depends on bug 505940, which changed state. Bug 505940 Summary: Need to package scribite. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505940 What |Old Value |New Value ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ON_QA |CLOSED Resolution| |CURRENTRELEASE -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 18:59:46 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:59:46 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908051859.n75Ixks3006740@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Bug 504066 depends on bug 505939, which changed state. Bug 505939 Summary: Need to package MultiHook. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505939 What |Old Value |New Value ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ON_QA |CLOSED Resolution| |CURRENTRELEASE -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 18:55:33 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 5 Aug 2009 14:55:33 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504065] Team per document In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908051855.n75ItXwg006119@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504065 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |CLOSED Resolution| |CURRENTRELEASE --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-08-05 14:55:32 EDT --- I believe this is being done by the lead writers. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Aug 5 23:51:33 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 16:51:33 -0700 Subject: Docs Calendar Message-ID: <4A7A1B05.4030007@redhat.com> Tasks Beginning or Ending in the Next Two Weeks Name Start End Comb Beats and Feature Pages for Alpha Tue 2009-07-28 Mon 2009-08-17 Alpha Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting Wed 2009-08-12 Wed 2009-08-12 Create Alpha Announcement Wed 2009-08-12 Fri 2009-08-14 Prepare Alpha Release Notes (1 page) Mon 2009-08-17 Mon 2009-08-17 Alpha Public Availability Tue 2009-08-18 Tue 2009-08-18 Post Alpha Release Notes One-Page Tue 2009-08-18 Tue 2009-08-18 Full schedule: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/ From sradvan at redhat.com Thu Aug 6 00:40:19 2009 From: sradvan at redhat.com (Scott Radvan) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 10:40:19 +1000 Subject: SELinux managing confined services guide - call for review Message-ID: <20090806104019.36dcd872@redhat.com> Hi, Having added many new chapters/services, the Fedora SELinux managing confined services guide is very close to reaching publication. I would greatly appreciate any and all comments or corrections: http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/ Cheers, -- Scott Radvan Content Author, Platform (Installation and Deployment) Red Hat Asia Pacific (Brisbane) http://www.apac.redhat.com From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 6 01:12:36 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:12:36 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-08-06 IRC log Message-ID: <1249521157.2636.7.camel@thunder> 00:01:15 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01:24 #topic Roll Call 00:01:26 * Sparks 00:01:28 * danielsmw is here. 00:01:33 * itbegins is here 00:01:38 hier ben ik 00:01:47 * ianweller 00:01:59 * rudi is here 00:02:08 quaid: over here, not #fedora-meeting-1 ;) 00:03:11 heh, like I can tell the difference in irssi 00:03:14 * quaid is here, too 00:03:58 ping me if you need me for a topic I can help with (i.e. the CMS) 00:04:24 * ianweller assigns itbegins to something non-CMS related ;) 00:04:34 itbegins: Oh we'll be talking CMS tonight 00:04:42 ianweller, I wouldn't do that if you want it to get done 00:04:48 hehe 00:05:38 Last week's work hours: 7.30-19.00, 7.30-18.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-22.30, 8.00-18.00 00:05:55 anyway, I'm polluting the meeting log... 00:06:00 what? you took the weekend OFF? 00:06:09 * quaid *cough* slacker *cough* ;-D 00:06:25 Okay, let's get started... 00:06:28 quaid, no weekend working for the time being. I get that off to explore Manhattan 00:06:37 #topic Last week's action items 00:06:45 Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. 00:06:58 #action Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm 00:07:09 Yeah, I didn't get that done. 00:07:19 Sparks to write rollout plan for license change... 2nd alarm 00:07:22 done 00:07:31 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:07:45 We'll come back to this one a little later. 00:07:54 rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license 00:08:02 #action rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm 00:08:17 Well, I've got a sample in place here: 00:08:24 http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ 00:08:24 rudi: We'll come back to this one but I think you are on the right track. 00:08:50 rudi: Cool. We'll hit that one in a few when we get to the license discussion. 00:08:52 Now including attribution information after discussions on the list yesterday 00:08:57 KK 00:09:07 Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula 00:09:14 #action Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm 00:09:24 Stickster to blog to see if we can get some PHP/JS folks to help with out with some Zikula modules. 00:09:40 stickster_afk isn't here but I think this was done. 00:09:46 It was; I saw it. 00:09:51 Cool 00:09:53 Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide 00:09:54 I am sort of working on this as well 00:10:04 from the Zikula community side 00:10:08 itbegins: cool 00:10:25 I've been contacted by stickster_afk, I just have to write an article on the Zikula site. Likelihood of serious replies is limited, but i'll give it a go 00:10:42 Does anyone want to handle the Shared Open-Source Style Guide stuff? I just haven't had time to read up on it all and write about it. 00:11:50 #action Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide 00:11:58 Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide 00:12:04 Yeah, I failed on this one too... 00:12:05 * rudi will take it but is time poor right now 00:12:26 rudi: The Open-Source guide? 00:12:38 rudi: or the BZ component 00:12:44 Sparks -- the OS guide 00:13:01 #action rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide 00:13:04 rudi: Thank you 00:13:12 I'll get on the BZ component tonight. 00:13:25 #action Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm 00:13:26 Sparks: I'd like to help move the shared style guide stuff along, yeah 00:13:40 Excellent 00:14:04 quaid: ke4qqq was going to work on it but he's gotten real busy lately for known reasons... 00:14:18 and I think the more people that get on that project the better 00:14:42 yeah, coordinate on list, sounds fine 00:14:47 cool 00:14:54 Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki 00:15:01 This is inprogress. 00:15:08 #action Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --second alarm 00:15:32 Okay, that's all from last week. Anyone have any other "old business"? 00:16:19 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq 00:16:32 Well, ke4qqq isn't here with us tonight... 00:16:57 but we had a meeting earlier today and got a few more items straight. 00:17:35 J5 joined us today and will be working on some of the javascript problems we are having 00:17:48 so hopefully all that will be squared away soon. 00:18:11 I got volunteered to rebuild the Zikula instance on PT15 so that will either happen later tonight or tomorrow. 00:18:24 Does anyone have anything questions or ideas? 00:19:07 Sparks, do you know what to install etc? 00:19:23 itbegins: I'll be installing all the packages we have in the repo. 00:19:39 Sparks, ok, then run install.php 00:19:45 Cool, thanks. 00:19:46 Sparks, you'll need a database ready 00:19:55 ya 00:20:00 in fact, it would be best if you didn't install from scratch and just pointed the new files to the old DB 00:20:12 due to the amount of setup work I did 00:20:17 I could do that, too. 00:20:19 though it can be replicated with a bit of work 00:20:32 I don't plan on wipeing that out. 00:20:32 if you want to do that, save /config/config.php from the old system 00:20:42 I assume it will be puppetized anyway 00:20:48 eventually, yes. 00:21:01 This is a preparation to puppetizing everything. 00:21:12 THere's also FASAuth (the FAS login module) and the theme 00:21:24 I sent the source to ke4qqq previously 00:21:34 Is the FAS module in git somewhere or anything like that? 00:21:39 I don't think those have been packaged. 00:21:46 But we need to get those in the repo asap. 00:21:46 We can get it in the fedora-infrastructure git repo if you'd like 00:21:56 Ah, they'll be RPMs - that's fine too :-) 00:22:13 ricky: Yeah, everything will be RPMed for ease of use 00:22:25 Cool, we like RPMs :-) 00:23:46 Okay, anything else? 00:24:05 That's it from my side 00:24:37 #topic Status on CC license rollout.\ 00:24:46 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:25:12 a short bit ago I updated one of the tasks as completed 00:25:28 Okay, I created the above schedule. I'd appreciate feedback. 00:25:34 If there are no objects I will head off, haven't eaten yet... 00:25:41 rudi: Let's talk about your page you made. 00:25:49 * ianweller will work tomorrow on a draft announcement 00:26:25 #action ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement 00:26:28 ;) 00:26:36 ianweller: Thank you 00:26:54 rudi: So do we need to have an attribute statement? 00:27:26 As I understand it, no we don't strictly need to. 00:27:38 Do we want an attribute statement? 00:27:48 I'm in two minds about it. 00:28:32 #link http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ 00:28:47 It increases transparency about how to re-use the material 00:29:24 But I can imagine that it would also discourage reuse 00:29:56 I don't like the idea of being extremely strict on saying how they have to do it. 00:30:23 it "feels" restrictive to reusers? 00:31:04 "You must say exactly this in the type font and size and..." 00:31:27 I'll note that if we are strict, it's a reason for not listing every single contributor to a doc - puts a big burden on remixers -- so then it makes more sense to credit "Fedora Docs" & "Fedora L10n" 00:31:28 I'd rather just say, you have to attribute it to us and let them figure out what works best for them. 00:31:54 * quaid thinks about it and thinks his argument goes the other way too 00:32:09 Sparks -- CC doesn't allow you to be *that* strict 00:32:49 rudi: So what would be the point of an attribution statement? 00:33:17 Like I said, to alert people about what their obligations actually are 00:33:31 Transparently 00:34:02 So spell out what the license is telling them to do 00:34:14 Pretty much 00:34:34 Okay, I'm good with that. 00:34:43 Anyone else have an opinion? 00:35:00 There are only two specific extra burdens that the licence allows: Specify a specific name to credit, and specify that you must link back. 00:35:15 You'll notice that I suggest we invoke the second of those 00:35:33 ah, that avoids the long list of names? 00:35:41 No. 00:35:48 That's the first 00:36:06 Which we could also choose 00:36:15 oic, sorry, misparsed 00:36:18 Okay 00:36:21 'specific name', gotcha 00:36:40 So +1 for only linking back. 00:36:52 just for ye ole debil's advocate sake 00:37:04 why not specify "Fedora Docs Team" and "Fedora L10n Team" 00:37:05 Yeah; so instead of crediting the actual creators of the doc, we could specify that the re-user or remixer just credits "The Fedora Documentation Project" 00:37:08 and avoid tracking a list of names? 00:37:17 * ianweller has to eat, bbl 00:37:17 or "The Fedora Project" 00:37:39 indeed 00:37:49 That list of names is important to some 00:37:53 * Sparks likes "The Fedora Project" 00:38:16 jjmcd: Yeah, which is found on the documents themselves... but that list can be pretty long. 00:38:32 jjmcd -- yes, which is why I shied away from suggesting that option 00:38:36 I don't think we should burden others with our long list of names, should we continue to choose to display it. 00:38:44 Yeah it can, so we really are just talking about what it says on some repuser's doc? 00:38:59 re-user grrrr 00:39:06 jjmcd -- yes 00:39:40 Ahh ... I like Fedora Project, but we get some good press for our docs, I wonder whether Fedora Docs Project doesn't leverage that 00:39:56 jjmcd: well, we ARE docs for the FP 00:40:00 jjmcd -- don't forget L10N 00:40:05 exactly 00:40:10 and Design 00:40:16 and the Publican team for the cool look 00:40:17 and etc. 00:40:56 One of the problems I have with all this self-branding (My Name, My SubProject's Name) is that it distracts and fractions from the greater; 00:41:10 even if one of my purposes in Fedora is to build my name 00:41:25 everyone else has to rely upon the RPM loginfo 00:41:27 WE ARE FEDORA 00:41:30 no one gets to call their package 00:41:35 quaid-zikula-foo.rpm 00:41:47 no? 00:41:57 how about this 00:41:58 Is that against the package naming rules? 00:42:01 do rpm -qi $anypackage 00:42:06 do you see the packagers name in there? 00:42:19 * radsy wanders off... services guide has been sent to lists fo review.. 00:42:23 why would Docs get to have a big splash with our name just because we get to control the printing press? 00:42:35 shouldn't we put every packager's name in there that contributed to a package that we document? 00:43:00 * quaid quotes his daughter's, "It's not Fu-yair!" 00:43:21 anyway, sorry, different debate 00:43:28 but not a problem we should push on reusers 00:43:38 so +1 to The Fedora Project from me 00:43:46 * quaid steps down carefully from his soap box 00:43:49 * Sparks calls for a vote 00:44:17 Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back 00:44:19 +1 00:44:29 +1 00:44:40 +1 00:44:40 +1 00:44:52 +1 00:45:32 #agreed Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back 00:45:40 Okay, anything else on the license? 00:46:05 #topic Shared open-source style guide <--ke4qqq 00:46:11 Give me a few minutes and I'll have that revision in place; then, if we're happy with it, I'll run it past legal 00:46:23 Okay... quaid and rudi will be helping ke4qqq with this. 00:46:27 Anything else? 00:46:30 rudi: Thanks 00:46:42 #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:47:12 * Sparks moves on 00:47:19 #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 00:47:42 Okay, I know people were working their tickets since last Wednesday. Good job. 00:48:05 I spent about a half hour "gardening" the tickets this afternoon. 00:48:32 If you have tickets assigned to you please make sure you work these issues... 00:48:44 especially if they are from a user. 00:49:52 If the ticket takes a while to fix I'd like everyone to make note at least monthly to show you are still working the problem. 00:50:30 * Sparks notes some people got knocked off there. 00:50:44 Does anyone have any questions about the BZ tickets 00:50:46 ? 00:51:10 anyone want mine? 00:51:25 quaid: No, I think you need yours. I don't think you have enough to do. 00:51:39 good for ya! 00:51:43 :) 00:52:22 #topic Draft Documentation on the wiki 00:52:39 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Draft_Documentation 00:52:56 wheeeeee 00:53:03 And jjmcd's back! 00:53:18 jjmcd: You'll have to read the log to see what we assigned to you while you were out. 00:53:31 Okay... Draft Documentation 00:53:34 did u get "504825, 228728 - should talk about tomorrow" before the netsplit? 00:53:46 no 00:54:02 after the meeting? 00:54:14 tomorrow's 11AM 00:54:42 No, can we talk about them after tonight meeting? 00:54:58 or do we need to talk about them now? 00:55:36 Well, one is probably a longer conversation, not sure I'm ready with all the questions, the other could drag on too 00:56:08 The second is are we going to ressurect the guide -- accessibility 00:56:15 I thought 504825 would be fairly straight forward 00:56:19 and if so, in what form/format 00:56:46 Well, we never really did get to a complete answer 00:57:01 jjmcd: What the heck... You are not authorized to access bug #228728. 00:57:02 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=228728 is not accessible. 00:57:20 * Sparks dislikes buggbot. 00:57:50 * ianweller is confused at 228728. 00:57:56 we said we would produce 3 formats, but we still never asked the question what does the rpm look like, how will it be presented installed, do we drop gnome or include kde, etc etc 00:58:11 let me see if i fat-fingered it 00:59:21 228729 sri 00:59:49 * Sparks is now curious what 228728 is. 01:00:14 jjmcd: Dang... okay, I remember now 01:00:16 prolly some super secret rhel thingie 01:00:23 prolly 01:00:55 jjmcd: Okay, so you want to wait until tomorrow's meeting for this? 01:01:24 Yeah, I think it is a little related to the other, so lets talk about what shows on the iso, and ignore the docs.fp.o 01:01:33 which we have covered sort of 01:01:35 http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ is updated 01:01:54 does it work in internet exploder? 01:02:32 I have no argument with that language 01:02:39 Don't know... I don't have IE anywhere. 01:02:45 Probably not; but that's got nothing to do with the license 01:03:01 yeah, I know. Just pokin' 01:03:06 :) 01:04:26 Okay 01:04:29 Draft Documentation 01:04:34 it's there... 01:04:49 Please look at it every so often and see if you can help something along. 01:05:05 #topic Guide needs? 01:05:15 Does anyone need anything for their Guide? 01:05:40 #topic New Guides 01:05:47 Anyone have any new guide ideas? 01:06:08 yeah, but not until after F12 01:06:15 jjmcd: What you got? 01:06:34 A guide to Fedora for radio amateurs 01:06:41 jjmcd: Count me in 01:06:45 ;-) 01:06:59 Anyone else? 01:07:12 #topic All other business 01:07:18 Does anyone have anything else? 01:07:33 * Sparks notes stickster arriving right at the end of the meeting 01:07:55 well, these manager types 01:08:04 ya.. tell me about it 01:08:04 you know how THEY are 01:08:23 ANYONE? ANYTHING? 01:08:39 is there any useful docs for zikula? 01:08:56 I don't know 01:09:35 Maybe I'll just rely on infra and not stress over it 01:09:47 #action jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs 01:10:07 zikula.org has lots, but nothing useful 01:10:41 Anything else? 01:11:04 5 01:11:06 4 01:11:09 3 01:11:11 2 01:11:13 1 01:11:26 Thanks everyone for coming! 01:11:29 #endmeeting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 6 01:13:07 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 05 Aug 2009 21:13:07 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-08-06 Summary Message-ID: <1249521187.2636.8.camel@thunder> =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:01:15 UTC. The `full logs`_ are available. .. _`full logs`: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html Meeting log ----------- * **Roll Call** (Sparks-00:01:24_) * **Last week's action items** (Sparks-00:06:37_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm (Sparks-00:06:58_) * *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule (Sparks-00:07:31_) * *ACTION*: rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm (Sparks-00:08:02_) * *LINK*: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ (rudi-00:08:24_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm (Sparks-00:09:14_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide (Sparks-00:11:50_) * *ACTION*: rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide (Sparks-00:13:01_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm (Sparks-00:13:25_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --second alarm (Sparks-00:15:08_) * **Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq** (Sparks-00:16:19_) * **Status on CC license rollout.\** (Sparks-00:24:37_) * *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule (Sparks-00:24:46_) * *ACTION*: ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement (ianweller-00:26:25_) * *LINK*: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ (quaid-00:28:32_) * *AGREED*: Require the re-user to attribute to "The Fedora Project" and link back (Sparks-00:45:32_) * **Shared open-source style guide <--ke4qqq** (Sparks-00:46:05_) * *LINK*: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html (Sparks-00:46:42_) * **Outstanding BZ Tickets** (Sparks-00:47:19_) * **Draft Documentation on the wiki** (Sparks-00:52:22_) * *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Draft_Documentation (Sparks-00:52:39_) * *LINK*: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ is updated (rudi-01:01:35_) * **Guide needs?** (Sparks-01:05:05_) * **New Guides** (Sparks-01:05:40_) * **All other business** (Sparks-01:07:12_) * *ACTION*: jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs (Sparks-01:09:47_) .. _Sparks-00:01:24: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-2 .. _Sparks-00:06:37: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-23 .. _Sparks-00:06:58: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-25 .. _Sparks-00:07:31: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-29 .. _Sparks-00:08:02: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-32 .. _rudi-00:08:24: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-34 .. _Sparks-00:09:14: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-40 .. _Sparks-00:11:50: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-51 .. _Sparks-00:13:01: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-58 .. _Sparks-00:13:25: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-61 .. _Sparks-00:15:08: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-70 .. _Sparks-00:16:19: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-72 .. _Sparks-00:24:37: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-105 .. _Sparks-00:24:46: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-106 .. _ianweller-00:26:25: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-112 .. _quaid-00:28:32: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-119 .. _Sparks-00:45:32: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-194 .. _Sparks-00:46:05: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-196 .. _Sparks-00:46:42: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-201 .. _Sparks-00:47:19: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-203 .. _Sparks-00:52:22: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-216 .. _Sparks-00:52:39: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-217 .. _rudi-01:01:35: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-247 .. _Sparks-01:05:05: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-258 .. _Sparks-01:05:40: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-260 .. _Sparks-01:07:12: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-268 .. _Sparks-01:09:47: fedora-meeting.2009-08-06-00.01.log.html#l-278 Meeting ended at 01:11:29 UTC. Action Items ------------ * Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm * rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm * Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm * Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide * rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide * Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm * Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --second alarm * ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement * jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs Action Items, by person ----------------------- * ianweller * ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement * jjmcd * jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs * rudi * rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm * rudi to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide * Sparks * Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm * Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm * Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide * Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Second alarm * Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --second alarm * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * Sparks (146) * quaid (42) * rudi (30) * jjmcd (30) * itbegins (21) * ianweller (9) * ricky (4) * danielsmw (3) * buggbot (1) * radsy (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 6 21:03:19 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:03:19 -0400 Subject: L10N Priority on Guides Message-ID: <1249592599.23857.4.camel@thunder> I've added a column to the Guide Table[1] that shows the priority that we give to translations. This was a request from L10N so they would know what guides to work on when manpower was limited. Here's my recommendation: 1 Release Notes 2 Installation Guide 3 Installation Quick Start Guide 4 user Guide ??? Comments? [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides_table --Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ricky at fedoraproject.org Thu Aug 6 21:09:17 2009 From: ricky at fedoraproject.org (Ricky Zhou) Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2009 17:09:17 -0400 Subject: L10N Priority on Guides In-Reply-To: <1249592599.23857.4.camel@thunder> References: <1249592599.23857.4.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090806210917.GF6584@alpha.rzhou.org> On 2009-08-06 05:03:19 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > I've added a column to the Guide Table[1] that shows the priority that > we give to translations. This was a request from L10N so they would > know what guides to work on when manpower was limited. Here's my > recommendation: > > 1 Release Notes > 2 Installation Guide > 3 Installation Quick Start Guide > 4 user Guide > ??? +1 to the quick start guide being high priority - I'd like that to be the main link from the get-fedora page in the future if possible. Thanks, Ricky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 6 21:17:13 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:17:13 -0400 Subject: Release Notes Meeting 2009-08-06 IRC log Message-ID: <1249593433.23857.5.camel@thunder> 15:01:18 #startmeeting Docs Project Release Notes Meeting 15:01:27 #topic Roll Call 15:01:28 * Sparks 15:01:46 * jjmcd . 15:03:28 I thought zack was gonna be here, don't know who else 15:03:28 * Sparks wonders if rudi fell asleep 15:04:04 It is the middle of the night there, 15:05:04 Maybe we'll just make a decision and move on 15:05:12 WORKSFORME 15:05:41 * Sparks was also thinking that we had to use -1 room because the regular meeting room was occupied. 15:05:45 Oh well... 15:05:51 #topic Old Business 15:06:07 jjmcd to determine the affected browsers and contact the developers for the homepage project 15:06:17 I think this was for "homepage"? 15:06:27 identified browsers, haven't contqacted developers 15:06:45 Which browsers were affected? Was it just Lynx? 15:07:07 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Browsers 15:07:13 Yes, just lynx 15:07:42 Pretty inconsistent behavior from browser to browser, though 15:07:42 Cool. That should be easy. 15:07:55 Ya... What is the proposed fix? 15:08:20 Probably an internal message like the other browsers would make sense 15:08:28 Ok 15:08:40 So we are depreciating homepage 15:09:02 I can't see where it makes sense to keep it unless lynx wants to include it in their rpm 15:09:18 But we should probably send a note to devel-list first 15:09:23 Ya 15:09:42 So many things have embedded browsers who knows 15:10:12 #action jjmcd to contact lynx developers about homepage 15:10:31 #action jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage 15:10:34 anything else? 15:10:51 I think that takes care of homepage, now, what else wants to be in the rpm 15:11:03 jjmcd to determine space differentials between the combined RN and the individual files in RPMs 15:11:10 ^^^ The other item from last week 15:11:17 oh yeah, forgot that one 15:11:34 next week? 15:11:41 I was more concerned about the whole text, html, xml think 15:11:45 thing 15:12:03 Should we make all these consistent? 15:12:19 Should we drop the html which nobody can find anyway? 15:12:19 prolly 15:12:35 we should simplify everything 15:12:45 don't ship stuff that we don't need in formats no one uses 15:13:08 Personally, I would like to see everything in yelp, nice consistent appearance, easy to find 15:13:29 Does that work in KDE and other desktop environments? 15:13:30 there is a scrollkeeper tab in kde help, but it doesn't seem to do anything 15:13:42 but then I am having trouble testing kde 15:13:59 * Sparks should probably install KDE on his box 15:14:04 can't boot a stick, and my vm install seems weird 15:14:36 I have kde as another wm, but that isn't the same as having a pure kde box 15:14:44 Ya 15:14:53 Sorry I am late 15:14:59 hi zach 15:15:18 lessee -- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Browsers 15:15:26 I didn't contact the lynx guys yet 15:15:41 zoglesby, do you us kde? 15:16:02 no 15:16:11 xmonad and sometimes gnome 15:16:30 how does yelp work for you? 15:16:32 zoglesby: You can test xmonad for us, then 15:16:47 test what? yelp? 15:17:10 Trying to decide whether we can get away with release notes in xml only 15:17:46 We do have a bug, tho, that makes no sense to me. Changelog doesn't show in yelp 15:19:08 doesn't Publican put the changelog inside the document? 15:19:13 yes 15:19:28 that why it makes no sense 15:19:42 just point to it and move on 15:19:45 IMO 15:19:59 yeah, that one isn't high on my list 15:20:24 so we have release notes, about fedora, readme, readme burning isos and readme live image all in yelp 15:20:35 Whether separate RPMs tbd 15:20:48 Well... 15:20:55 let's address that now... 15:21:02 #topic What to include in the RN RPM 15:21:10 So there is... 15:21:28 About Fedora, readme, readme burning isos, and readme live image 15:21:41 OK, I had readme accessibility as a separate topic in my mind, but we should address that, too 15:21:52 I think the last two shouldn't be distributed 15:22:08 I think we address those two topics in various guides and on the wiki 15:22:15 because you already know if you got there 15:22:22 ya 15:22:23 I can buy that 15:22:40 I say we remove those completely 15:22:53 No complaints from this quarter 15:23:01 zoglesby: ? 15:23:06 I agree 15:23:15 Okay. What is the readme? 15:23:20 ok a little less clutter 15:23:25 what about accessibility? 15:23:29 no point in telling a user how to burn a cd if its in the iso 15:23:37 they cant see it until after they burn it 15:24:00 jjmcd: What is in the accessibility document? 15:24:42 dunno 15:24:49 it went missing around 9 or 10 15:25:08 wait, I have an f8 box 15:25:14 I think that should probably be a guide. 15:25:28 * Sparks assumes it talks about using Fedora with screen readers and such 15:25:43 that would be my guess 15:26:09 Oh yeah, it talks about legal requirements and such 15:26:32 lists a boatload of solutions 15:26:46 Can you send that to me? 15:26:58 should be in git 15:27:22 looking 15:27:43 * Sparks doesn't see it 15:28:35 I don't either ... K, I'll send it. Take some dancing tho, its on my firewall which is mostly devoid of software 15:29:06 http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/release-notes/devel/README-Accessibility?root=docs&view=c 15:29:10 jjmcd: Is that it? 15:29:23 I think so 15:29:27 Lets recap 15:29:49 yelp contains RNs, about-fedora, readme and readme-accessibility 15:30:00 # of RPMs tbd 15:30:12 We will somehow check that KDE can use 15:31:06 That looks familiar 15:31:06 I will check xmonad and evilwm 15:31:16 #idea We individualize all the packages and not ship them together. 15:31:47 Perhaps we have an RN-gnome and RN-kde? 15:32:38 I think that's just more work 15:33:00 I wonder whether that section 508 stuff has been expanded since 2000 15:33:44 * Sparks summons Kevin_Kofler to ask about KDE stuff 15:34:07 jjmcd: I used to do some of the accessibility stuff for East Carolina University 15:34:10 Sparks, yeah, probably right. If we can make yelp/scrollkeeper work in kde we should be happy with that 15:34:19 I want to Publicanize that document and make it a guide 15:34:50 Will you make a guide rpm for yelp? 15:36:11 Well... I can make it a package and make it available in the repo. 15:36:30 * Sparks isn't sure how things get installed by default 15:36:44 But I think it might be helpful to have that information available BEFORE installing 15:36:56 Well, if I installed selinux-guide it would be nice to see it in yelp with the rest of the docs 15:37:11 it doesn't? 15:37:35 No, the guides are html 15:38:02 * Sparks sees his guides in System->Documentation 15:38:15 right above Help and About Fedora and... 15:38:26 Look in help 15:39:09 That's an odd place for those... I mean... maybe not odd but I sure wouldn't go looking there 15:39:17 * Sparks isn't the "help" kinda guy 15:39:48 Well, "Documentation" doesn't show up until you install a guide 15:40:21 Yes 15:40:46 I think it makes it stand out more. 15:41:01 Because you'll know that something has changed when you install the package 15:41:08 otherwise you might not know where to go and look 15:41:11 Maybe it makes more sense to put About-Fedora, Readme, Readme-Accessibility and Release-Notes in "Documentation" and leave yelp for the gnome stuff 15:42:00 Maybe 15:42:04 Again, though, what does that look like in kde? 15:42:13 That kde menu is just plain weird 15:42:22 yeah. 15:42:34 Apparently no one in #fedora-kde want to come join us 15:42:40 we need rudi 15:42:48 I'll install KDE later today and will start playing around 15:42:49 rudi rudi rudi 15:42:55 Maybe they're all in AUS 15:43:16 I would if today wasn't so bloody full 15:43:17 Maybe 15:43:34 the menu issue with kde 4 will be an issue with gnome 3 (shell) anyway 15:44:01 at least from what I have seen about it 15:44:03 I tried it on a stick this morning, no joy. Then in a VM, only a few minutes to play tho. I have a free partition on my big box, I just hate to reboot it to play 15:44:08 Aaarghh 15:44:51 Okay 15:45:00 So Accessibility will be taken care of... 15:45:02 what's left? 15:45:23 About-Fedora and Readme 15:46:02 Where is the readme and do we really need that? 15:46:05 Isn't that kinda small for a guide - acc I mean 15:46:21 readme has a bunch of misc stuff, i think its pretty useful 15:46:38 although currently most people will never find it 15:46:43 Maybe, but it is important and I think it should be available in as many formats and to as many people as possible 15:46:57 now that it is publicanized and on the menu it is probably more useful 15:47:25 Well... I still think packaging everything separately is better 15:47:44 I don't really care if you want it or not... if you think it is good then I say keep it! 15:47:58 Yeah, I think we should. 15:48:32 I notice the readmes weren't localized in F8 15:48:36 interesting 15:49:06 Oh, sorry, only accessibility wasn't localized 15:49:23 hey 15:49:23 So I was summoned? 15:49:29 there's our kde expert 15:49:57 We were trying to decide about formats for RN's, etc. 15:49:58 Kevin_Kofler: Oh do we have questions for you 15:50:07 RNs == Release Notes 15:50:32 Right now we have an uneven mix of formats, some html, some text, some xml 15:50:37 want to clean that up 15:50:58 Our default is to put everything in yelp but we don't know what that does to kde 15:51:09 That's horrible. 15:51:12 KDE can't open Yelp files. 15:51:17 And Yelp isn't on the KDE spin at all. 15:51:25 As it requires the xulrunner stack. 15:51:32 doesn't scrollkeeper read those files? 15:52:25 I don't know. But it's not part of KDE either, I don't think we have this on the KDE spin at this time either. 15:52:46 I found scrollkeeper in help on the kde live image, but it didn't seem to do anything 15:53:14 Kevin_Kofler: Can you install fedora-security-guide-en-US and tell us how it shows up on your KDE system? 15:53:15 So, by default, publican puts files under a "Documentation" menu, does that work? 15:53:26 Hmmm... http://scrollkeeper.sourceforge.net/browsers.shtml 15:53:47 Looks like if you use Scrollkeeper format as opposed to Yelp's native format, you should get the doc to show up in both Yelp and KHelpCenter. 15:53:48 jjmcd: Publican == HTML, right? 15:53:59 If that's what you build 15:54:14 jjmcd: make srpm-en-US 15:54:40 yelp is just xml 15:54:41 Hmmm, I'm still running F10, the XZ-payload RPMs won't install here. :-( 15:56:50 What I do know is that KDE's help browser, KHelpCenter, won't open GNOME programs' Yelp documentations. 15:56:56 It doesn't understand the format. 15:57:15 hmmm, my kde help doesn't look remotely like that 15:57:26 maybe we need to talk to the teams and get that fixed 15:57:47 a format that works on both 15:57:49 Well, there are a pile of auxiliary files, gnome might not provide them 15:59:30 My recommendation is to go with plain HTML for the documentation, it works everywhere. 16:00:13 I think that is the output of Publican in srpm mode 16:00:38 Well, not "plain" html, but rudi is fixing that 16:00:39 * Sparks will test that later today 16:01:13 Sparks, I think we need to test multiple langs ... I'm not sure Publican actually handles that 16:01:39 ? 16:01:58 How does KDEhelp deal with languages? Is there some OMF equivalent? 16:02:37 * Sparks notes it is high noon and time for the board meeting 16:02:44 Sparks - if you log on in Dutch, do you get the Dutch guide? I see no evidence in the spec to enable that 16:02:51 shoot you're right 16:03:01 looks like more research 16:03:18 jjmcd: Well, if you install the Dutch version of the package... 16:03:40 What if you have multiple langs installed? 16:03:44 So in Anaconda when you say "I speak Dutch" it should know how to grab the proper language 16:04:14 On the same system, you get the release notes in the language you logged on with, no matter what you installed with 16:04:36 Well, after you have everything setup you can select which document you open according to the language. They would all show up 16:04:42 anaconda doesn't grab packages based on languafe 16:05:06 I don't know 16:05:29 The packages have all the languages in the rpm 16:05:39 no 16:05:48 errr 16:05:48 Well, Publican's dont! 16:05:49 maybe 16:06:06 You CAN but the SG is being packaged separately 16:06:18 But for all the apps, the strings are in a string file 16:06:40 kinda like our po's 16:06:40 These aren't apps 16:06:49 These are documents 16:06:54 yeah, but anaconda don't know that 16:07:18 Can we tell it? 16:07:36 I'm not enough of a spec file guru to tell 16:07:51 nor am I 16:08:05 I would hate to have to wade through a menu of 42 langs for each doc 16:08:36 You shouldn't have to 16:08:45 With yelp it is simple - everything is in the lang you logged on with 16:08:50 just like the apps 16:09:26 Well, I think we might have to build a better egg... 16:09:28 hmm... 16:09:36 Maybe documentation groups by language? 16:10:04 The language you select could automagically tag the proper documentation language? 16:10:12 OK, lets do some research and go to the board meeting. Perhaps you can make an F10 RPM for Kevin 16:10:24 That's how yelp works 16:10:46 ANd if your language isn't there you get C 16:10:49 F10 should be there 16:11:08 Okay... will do research 16:11:11 anything else? 16:11:39 No? 16:11:43 no 16:11:49 Thanks Kevin_Kofler for joining us 16:11:55 KDE KHelpCenter will use the system's language for its native docs. 16:12:12 But of course if you have just plain HTML, there's no obvious way to get that effect. :-( 16:12:35 * jjmcd needs to study kdehelpcenter 16:12:36 The desktops work hard on making their formats work well, but unfortunately, interoperability leaves much to be desired. 16:12:36 jjmcd: You know, RH might have already figured this out for us. 16:12:46 Sparks, they should have 16:13:07 #action Sparks to investigate how RH handles various languages of Publican docs 16:13:57 Okay... Closing down the shop... 16:14:04 Thanks everyone for coming! 16:14:06 #endmeeting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 6 21:18:12 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 17:18:12 -0400 Subject: Release Notes Meeting 2009-08-06 Summary Message-ID: <1249593492.23857.6.camel@thunder> ===================================================== #fedora-meeting-1: Docs Project Release Notes Meeting ===================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 15:01:18 UTC. The `full logs`_ are available. .. _`full logs`: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html Meeting log ----------- * **Roll Call** (Sparks-15:01:27_) * **Old Business** (Sparks-15:05:51_) * *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Browsers (jjmcd-15:07:07_) * *ACTION*: jjmcd to contact lynx developers about homepage (Sparks-15:10:12_) * *ACTION*: jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage (Sparks-15:10:31_) * **What to include in the RN RPM** (Sparks-15:21:02_) * *LINK*: http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/release-notes/devel/README-Accessibility?root=docs&view=c (Sparks-15:29:06_) * *IDEA*: We individualize all the packages and not ship them together. (Sparks-15:31:16_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to investigate how RH handles various languages of Publican docs (Sparks-16:13:07_) .. _Sparks-15:01:27: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-2 .. _Sparks-15:05:51: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-12 .. _jjmcd-15:07:07: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-17 .. _Sparks-15:10:12: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-29 .. _Sparks-15:10:31: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-30 .. _Sparks-15:21:02: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-74 .. _Sparks-15:29:06: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-106 .. _Sparks-15:31:16: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-115 .. _Sparks-16:13:07: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-06-15.01.log.html#l-258 Meeting ended at 16:14:06 UTC. Action Items ------------ * jjmcd to contact lynx developers about homepage * jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage * Sparks to investigate how RH handles various languages of Publican docs Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jjmcd * jjmcd to contact lynx developers about homepage * jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage * Sparks * Sparks to investigate how RH handles various languages of Publican docs * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * Sparks (116) * jjmcd (116) * Kevin_Kofler (15) * zoglesby (14) Generated by `MeetBot`_ .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From r.landmann at redhat.com Fri Aug 7 01:02:54 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 11:02:54 +1000 Subject: L10N Priority on Guides In-Reply-To: <1249592599.23857.4.camel@thunder> References: <1249592599.23857.4.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A7B7D3E.4050608@redhat.com> On 08/07/2009 07:03 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > I've added a column to the Guide Table[1] that shows the priority that > we give to translations. This was a request from L10N so they would > know what guides to work on when manpower was limited. Here's my > recommendation: > > 1 Release Notes > 2 Installation Guide > 3 Installation Quick Start Guide > 4 user Guide > ??? > > Comments? > I think that the Installation Quick Start Guide should be above the full Installation Guide for two reasons: * the IQSG is likely to be of greater benefit to a greater number of users * when a translator has finished with the IQSG, they can re-use many of the strings to get a head start on the full Installation Guide I would also like to add two items as 0 on the list (0.1 and 0.2?) : * The docbook locales list (I guess this fills the same place in the L10N workflow as the old docs-common-entities module) -- this is available in Transifex here: https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/docbook-locales/ * The Publican "Common_Content" sections -- not currently available in Transifex, but will become so soon Should I add these to the top of the Guides table? Although they're not "guides" themselves, localizations of the guides will not work unless these items are completed first. Cheers Rudi From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Aug 7 01:44:54 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 06 Aug 2009 21:44:54 -0400 Subject: L10N Priority on Guides In-Reply-To: <4A7B7D3E.4050608@redhat.com> References: <1249592599.23857.4.camel@thunder> <4A7B7D3E.4050608@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1249609494.2731.0.camel@thunder> On Fri, 2009-08-07 at 11:02 +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > On 08/07/2009 07:03 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > > I've added a column to the Guide Table[1] that shows the priority that > > we give to translations. This was a request from L10N so they would > > know what guides to work on when manpower was limited. Here's my > > recommendation: > > > > 1 Release Notes > > 2 Installation Guide > > 3 Installation Quick Start Guide > > 4 user Guide > > ??? > > > > Comments? > > > > I think that the Installation Quick Start Guide should be above the full > Installation Guide for two reasons: > > * the IQSG is likely to be of greater benefit to a greater number of users > > * when a translator has finished with the IQSG, they can re-use many of > the strings to get a head start on the full Installation Guide > > I would also like to add two items as 0 on the list (0.1 and 0.2?) : > > * The docbook locales list (I guess this fills the same place in the > L10N workflow as the old docs-common-entities module) -- this is > available in Transifex here: > https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/docbook-locales/ > > * The Publican "Common_Content" sections -- not currently available in > Transifex, but will become so soon > > Should I add these to the top of the Guides table? Although they're not > "guides" themselves, localizations of the guides will not work unless > these items are completed first. > > Cheers > Rudi > Go for it. --Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rfontana at redhat.com Fri Aug 7 10:01:47 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 06:01:47 -0400 Subject: CC license logos/buttons Message-ID: <20090807060147.7a8bec62@calliope> With the licensing switch from OPL to CC-BY-SA, there is some interest in using Creative Commons' logos and CC-BY-SA license button image thingies in generated Fedora documentation and the Fedora wiki. This is raising some questions about whether we can actually package the logo/button thingies in Publican and whether indeed such content can be used on Fedora websites. Based on discussions I have had with Spot, the default terms of use for such content[1] clash with Fedora legal policy concerning freely redistributable content. Moreover, based on preliminary communication with lawyers for Creative Commons I believe we do not have permission to package these logo/button thingies in Publican, regardless of Fedora legal policy. We are planning on exploring with Creative Commons' lawyers the possibility of getting sufficient additional permission to address some of these impediments, but for the time being we should assume that the CC logo/button thingies can't be used by Fedora. - RF [1]See http://creativecommons.org/policies -- Richard E. Fontana Red Hat, Inc. From r.landmann at redhat.com Fri Aug 7 12:59:33 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Fri, 07 Aug 2009 22:59:33 +1000 Subject: L10N Priority on Guides In-Reply-To: <1249646961.2636.2.camel@thunder> References: <1249592599.23857.4.camel@thunder> <4A7B7D3E.4050608@redhat.com> <4818cd80908061943h2ab8af85le7577c996d4aec67@mail.gmail.com> <1249646961.2636.2.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A7C2535.4010503@redhat.com> On 08/07/2009 10:09 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 23:43 -0300, Domingo Becker wrote: > >> 1. Readme Burning ISOs. >> 2. Readme Live Image. >> >> > The first two in your list are going away. > So will these not be published on docs.fedoraproject.org any more? I know that these won't be part of the Release Notes package any more, but wouldn't it be easier to maintain translations in XML/Transifex rather than just on the wiki? Cheers Ruediger From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Aug 7 13:04:04 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:04:04 -0400 Subject: CC license logos/buttons In-Reply-To: <20090807060147.7a8bec62@calliope> References: <20090807060147.7a8bec62@calliope> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 06:01, Richard Fontana wrote: > With the licensing switch from OPL to CC-BY-SA, there is some interest > in using Creative Commons' logos and CC-BY-SA license button image > thingies in generated Fedora documentation and the Fedora wiki. This is > raising some questions about whether we can actually package the > logo/button thingies in Publican and whether indeed such content can be > used on Fedora websites. > > Based on discussions I have had with Spot, the default terms of use for > such content[1] clash with Fedora legal policy concerning freely > redistributable content. ?Moreover, based on preliminary communication > with lawyers for Creative Commons I believe we do not have permission > to package these logo/button thingies in Publican, regardless of Fedora > legal policy. > > We are planning on exploring with Creative Commons' lawyers the > possibility of getting sufficient additional permission to address some > of these impediments, but for the time being we should assume that the > CC logo/button thingies can't be used by Fedora. > > - RF > > [1]See http://creativecommons.org/policies > > -- > Richard E. Fontana > Red Hat, Inc. Good Morning Richard, Ahhh... I see what you mean. The page says: Creative Commons License Buttons: The Creative Commons buttons that describe a key term of our license, such as BY, NC, ND, SA, Sampling, Sampling Plus and Noncommercial Sampling Plus may only be used in the context of pointing to a Creative Commons license on the Creative Commons server that includes that license term or to otherwise describe the Creative Commons license, that includes that license term and that applies to a particular work. But we can't "point" to the website because these are books and not a webpage. I went through the license survey again and noted for "offline" work that we should use the following text: This work is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License. To view a copy of this license, visit http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ or send a letter to Creative Commons, 171 Second Street, Suite 300, San Francisco, California, 94105, USA. It doesn't say anything about using the image. Thanks for the catch! --Eric From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Aug 7 13:14:50 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:14:50 -0400 Subject: CC license logos/buttons References: <20090807060147.7a8bec62@calliope> Message-ID: <77B80CAAA8B94750B95F7D13D55A51D1@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Cc: ; Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:04 AM Subject: Re: CC license logos/buttons "Creative Commons License Buttons: The Creative Commons buttons that describe a key term of our license, such as BY, NC, ND, SA, Sampling, Sampling Plus and Noncommercial Sampling Plus may only be used in the context of pointing to a Creative Commons license on the Creative Commons server that includes that license term or to otherwise describe the Creative Commons license, that includes that license term and that applies to a particular work." So, that particular artwork may only be used to drive traffic to their site. Sounds awfully Microsoft-y to me. --McD From kgs at esilibrary.com Fri Aug 7 13:19:19 2009 From: kgs at esilibrary.com (Karen Schneider) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:19:19 -0400 Subject: CC license logos/buttons In-Reply-To: <77B80CAAA8B94750B95F7D13D55A51D1@Aidan> References: <20090807060147.7a8bec62@calliope> <77B80CAAA8B94750B95F7D13D55A51D1@Aidan> Message-ID: > "Creative Commons License Buttons: The Creative Commons buttons that > describe a key term of our license, such as BY, NC, ND, SA, Sampling, > Sampling Plus and Noncommercial Sampling Plus may only be used in the > context of pointing to a Creative Commons license on the Creative > Commons server that includes that license term or to otherwise > describe the Creative Commons license, that includes that license term > and that applies to a particular work." > > > So, that particular artwork may only be used to drive traffic to their site. > Sounds awfully Microsoft-y to me. > (Emerging from lurkdom) I was surprised by this message and wonder if Creative Commons as a project really wants that as an outcome. They may not have factored in circumstances that would make that clause difficult to implement. -- -- | Karen G. Schneider | Community Librarian | Equinox Software Inc. "The Evergreen Experts" | Toll-free: 1.877.Open.ILS (1.877.673.6457) x712 | kgs at esilibrary.com | Web: http://www.esilibrary.com From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Aug 7 13:32:03 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:32:03 -0400 Subject: CC license logos/buttons References: <20090807060147.7a8bec62@calliope> <77B80CAAA8B94750B95F7D13D55A51D1@Aidan> Message-ID: <2EC2ECCC0B1D4F8AB0469C2B02693EB7@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Schneider" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:19 AM Subject: Re: CC license logos/buttons >> "Creative Commons License Buttons: The Creative Commons buttons that >> describe a key term of our license, such as BY, NC, ND, SA, Sampling, >> Sampling Plus and Noncommercial Sampling Plus may only be used in the >> context of pointing to a Creative Commons license on the Creative >> Commons server that includes that license term or to otherwise >> describe the Creative Commons license, that includes that license term >> and that applies to a particular work." >> >> >> So, that particular artwork may only be used to drive traffic to their >> site. >> Sounds awfully Microsoft-y to me. >> > > (Emerging from lurkdom) I was surprised by this message and wonder if > Creative Commons as a project really wants that as an outcome. They > may not have factored in circumstances that would make that clause > difficult to implement. > If an organization is all about licensing, it must be just chock full of lawyers. I suspect that you are right, they did some obvious lawyer-speak without really thinking through the appearances. --McD From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Aug 7 13:32:58 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:32:58 -0400 Subject: CC license logos/buttons In-Reply-To: <77B80CAAA8B94750B95F7D13D55A51D1@Aidan> References: <20090807060147.7a8bec62@calliope> <77B80CAAA8B94750B95F7D13D55A51D1@Aidan> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 7, 2009 at 09:14, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" > > To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" > > Cc: ; > Sent: Friday, August 07, 2009 9:04 AM > Subject: Re: CC license logos/buttons > > > > "Creative Commons License Buttons: The Creative Commons buttons that > describe a key term of our license, such as BY, NC, ND, SA, Sampling, > Sampling Plus and Noncommercial Sampling Plus may only be used in the > context of pointing to a Creative Commons license on the Creative > Commons server that includes that license term or to otherwise > describe the Creative Commons license, that includes that license term > and that applies to a particular work." > > > So, that particular artwork may only be used to drive traffic to their site. > Sounds awfully Microsoft-y to me. > > --McD Well, it sounds more like a "replacement" for the license text itself. Either you use the text or you use the image as a link to the text. --Eric From kgs at esilibrary.com Fri Aug 7 13:41:02 2009 From: kgs at esilibrary.com (Karen Schneider) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 09:41:02 -0400 Subject: CC license logos/buttons In-Reply-To: References: <20090807060147.7a8bec62@calliope> <77B80CAAA8B94750B95F7D13D55A51D1@Aidan> Message-ID: > Well, it sounds more like a "replacement" for the license text itself. > ?Either you use the text or you use the image as a link to the text. > > --Eric > Or, you use both, which you can't actually do according to the licensing terms in an actual print book (because you can't link from the logo--well, except maybe on a Kindle? :) ), but is probably not what was intended by the project per se. Logically, in a book, the logo out of context would be a bit meaningless anyway (unless you footnote it... and I don't want to imagine a world with footnoted logos), but the rule was obviously designed around an online presence, and then heavily lawyered. -- -- | Karen G. Schneider | Community Librarian | Equinox Software Inc. "The Evergreen Experts" | Toll-free: 1.877.Open.ILS (1.877.673.6457) x712 | kgs at esilibrary.com | Web: http://www.esilibrary.com From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Aug 7 19:15:00 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 7 Aug 2009 15:15:00 -0400 Subject: Packages loaded into Fedora by default Message-ID: How do we ask for certain document guides to be loaded into the system by default and do we have any guides that need to be in the default install? --Eric From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 03:05:00 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 08:35:00 +0530 Subject: [urgent] Review request for an article. Message-ID: Hi, I am sure this is the most unreasonable request, but given the circumstances, I could not do earlier. I am writing an article on Fedora mirroring for a widely circulated linux magazine (LFY), and in about 16 hours from now (GMT 6:30PM), I have to submit this. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Susmit/MirroringArticle It would be very nice if someone can please review it a bit, and again I apologise for requesting so late. Thanks. -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Aug 8 05:12:42 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 01:12:42 -0400 Subject: [urgent] Review request for an article. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1249708362.10382.27.camel@thunder> On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 08:35 +0530, susmit shannigrahi wrote: > Hi, > > I am sure this is the most unreasonable request, but given the > circumstances, I could not do earlier. > I am writing an article on Fedora mirroring for a widely circulated > linux magazine (LFY), and in about 16 hours from now (GMT 6:30PM), I > have to submit this. > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Susmit/MirroringArticle > > > It would be very nice if someone can please review it a bit, and again > I apologise for requesting so late. > > Thanks. > > > > -- > Regards, > Susmit. > Susmit, Just a few spelling and grammar changes. Everything else looked good. Great article! -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Lead Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 05:16:05 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 10:46:05 +0530 Subject: [urgent] Review request for an article. In-Reply-To: <1249708362.10382.27.camel@thunder> References: <1249708362.10382.27.camel@thunder> Message-ID: > Just a few spelling and grammar changes. ?Everything else looked good. > Great article! Hi Spark, Thanks for the review. -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= Sent from Calcutta, WB, India From ian at ianweller.org Sat Aug 8 16:45:17 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 11:45:17 -0500 Subject: Packages loaded into Fedora by default In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090808164427.GA10893@deathray.ianweller.org> On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 03:15:00PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > How do we ask for certain document guides to be loaded into the system > by default and do we have any guides that need to be in the default > install? > I believe that's called "comps". http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/ I'm not really sure about the process of adding a package to comps. Best way to find out, I think, would be to nab someone from FESCo. ;) -- Ian Weller "Why, a four-year-old could understand this report. Find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail out of it." -- Groucho Marx, "Duck Soup" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dimitris at glezos.com Sat Aug 8 17:12:28 2009 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 17:12:28 +0000 Subject: Adding pages on Transifex In-Reply-To: <20090808121455.2d737292@ulysses> References: <6600c1b10908070957g4ae34559xa8e779b7f7ccf26b@mail.gmail.com> <20090808121455.2d737292@ulysses> Message-ID: <6d4237680908081012l4015495ak7e0c7690a38bfeb6@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 3:14 PM, daniel cabrera wrote: > Hi, > > We were thinking at the Spanish team, if there's a possibility to add a > couple of web pages to translate in Transifex. There's a kind of > 'idiomatic gap' between the home pages of each language and, for > instance, any any guide that the docs team has released. > > E.g. if a Dutch user wants to go from here [1] to here [2], he or she > must first pass through these three pages: [3], [4], and [5], which are > available only in English. > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/nl/ > [2] > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/installation-quick-start-guide/f11/nl-NL/html-single/ > [3] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ > [4] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/installation-quick-start-guide/ > [5] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/installation-quick-start-guide/f11/ > > The idea is to make the navigation process be consistent, in any > language. I know there must be a user incredibly lazy, or not being > able to read a word in English to abandon the process before reaching > the guide. Not sure about the second type, but in fact I know a > couple of the first one. This is a good point. I'm CCing the Docs project, since this is purely something the folks there can fix. What we need is clear links to the localized documents. Here are two alternatives: 1. On the Get Help page, we list all the documents that the user might need. The listing is i18n-ized, so local groups can override the English defaults. 2. We localize http://docs.fpo/ too. The link on the left menu of the main site is localized, so a team which has docs.fpo localized will link to the localized version. -d -- Dimitris Glezos Transifex: The Multilingual Publishing Revolution http://www.transifex.net/ -- http://www.indifex.com/ From stickster at gmail.com Sat Aug 8 18:41:32 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul Frields) Date: Sat, 8 Aug 2009 14:41:32 -0400 Subject: Packages loaded into Fedora by default In-Reply-To: <20090808164427.GA10893@deathray.ianweller.org> References: <20090808164427.GA10893@deathray.ianweller.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Ian Weller wrote: > On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 03:15:00PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> How do we ask for certain document guides to be loaded into the system >> by default and do we have any guides that need to be in the default >> install? >> > I believe that's called "comps". > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/ > > I'm not really sure about the process of adding a package to comps. Best > way to find out, I think, would be to nab someone from FESCo. ;) Which docs do you want loaded automatically? I ask because if we're thinking of loading something like release notes, then we should probably obsolete and retire the fedora-release-notes package for F-12. Paul From r.landmann at redhat.com Sat Aug 8 21:55:13 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Sun, 09 Aug 2009 07:55:13 +1000 Subject: Adding pages on Transifex In-Reply-To: <6d4237680908081012l4015495ak7e0c7690a38bfeb6@mail.gmail.com> References: <6600c1b10908070957g4ae34559xa8e779b7f7ccf26b@mail.gmail.com> <20090808121455.2d737292@ulysses> <6d4237680908081012l4015495ak7e0c7690a38bfeb6@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A7DF441.6050105@redhat.com> On 08/09/2009 03:12 AM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > What we need is clear links to the localized documents. Here are two > alternatives: > > 1. On the Get Help page, we list all the documents that the user > might need. The listing is i18n-ized, so local groups can override the > English defaults. > 2. We localize http://docs.fpo/ too. The link on the left menu of the > main site is localized, so a team which has docs.fpo localized will > link to the localized version. > > I really like suggestion 2 here. The Docs project has been talking about a need to overhaul the docs pages to reduce clutter like this: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/ It seems to me that whatever design we come up with, we need to make it localisable, like the main page of the site. Cheers Ruediger From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Aug 8 22:17:29 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 08 Aug 2009 18:17:29 -0400 Subject: Packages loaded into Fedora by default In-Reply-To: References: <20090808164427.GA10893@deathray.ianweller.org> Message-ID: <1249769849.2718.2.camel@thunder> On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 14:41 -0400, Paul Frields wrote: > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Ian Weller wrote: > > On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 03:15:00PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> How do we ask for certain document guides to be loaded into the system > >> by default and do we have any guides that need to be in the default > >> install? > >> > > I believe that's called "comps". > > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/ > > > > I'm not really sure about the process of adding a package to comps. Best > > way to find out, I think, would be to nab someone from FESCo. ;) > > Which docs do you want loaded automatically? I ask because if we're > thinking of loading something like release notes, then we should > probably obsolete and retire the fedora-release-notes package for > F-12. > > Paul > Hadn't really considered loading anything automatically. Someone asked me a few months back and I had written the question in my notes but couldn't remember getting the answer. Yeah, we need to get the Release Notes stuff straightened out. --Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 01:15:30 2009 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (sankarshan) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 06:45:30 +0530 Subject: Back to work with revised to-dos In-Reply-To: <146c63b10908040420u2a83d7b3gca6c245cb96eb826@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10908040420u2a83d7b3gca6c245cb96eb826@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35586fc00908081815r3a800333of9c634e9e786c39f@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:50 PM, satya komaragiri wrote: > The last line also made me wonder if my deliverables for GSoC have > changed. It would be very convenient for me to know what is my to-do > from GSoC perspective. I am not limiting this project till SoC and > will make sure I work on it till it is in production use but knowing > what is expected for SoC can help me order the tasks accordingly. I would think that the scope of work as part of your GSoC and, the scope of work beyond GSoC is something that should be worked out between your mentor and, yourself. I am tempted to say that the list of points (just above the paragraph I quoted) does make a significant difference to the functionality, however, whether you want to do it as part of your GSoC or, would like to continue rolling them up into scheduled releases is something one should leave to your sound judgement. -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 15:30:18 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul Frields) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 11:30:18 -0400 Subject: Packages loaded into Fedora by default In-Reply-To: <1249769849.2718.2.camel@thunder> References: <20090808164427.GA10893@deathray.ianweller.org> <1249769849.2718.2.camel@thunder> Message-ID: On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 14:41 -0400, Paul Frields wrote: >> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Ian Weller wrote: >> > On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 03:15:00PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> >> How do we ask for certain document guides to be loaded into the system >> >> by default and do we have any guides that need to be in the default >> >> install? >> >> >> > I believe that's called "comps". >> > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/ >> > >> > I'm not really sure about the process of adding a package to comps. Best >> > way to find out, I think, would be to nab someone from FESCo. ;) >> >> Which docs do you want loaded automatically? ?I ask because if we're >> thinking of loading something like release notes, then we should >> probably obsolete and retire the fedora-release-notes package for >> F-12. >> >> Paul >> > > Hadn't really considered loading anything automatically. ?Someone asked > me a few months back and I had written the question in my notes but > couldn't remember getting the answer. > > Yeah, we need to get the Release Notes stuff straightened out. Here by "automatically" I meant "by default," so I'm asking about the same docs you're talking about . ;-) Sorry for the confusion. Which packages, in other words, are you considering adding to comps? Paul From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 18:24:38 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:24:38 -0400 Subject: Live image README Message-ID: <20090809182438.GC18127@localhost.localdomain> I made some changes to the readme-live-image content on the 'master' branch, to reflect the availability of persistence in Live USB and draw some distinctions in behavior between that format and the CD/DVD format. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Sun Aug 9 18:59:48 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 14:59:48 -0400 Subject: Packages loaded into Fedora by default In-Reply-To: References: <20090808164427.GA10893@deathray.ianweller.org> <1249769849.2718.2.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090809185948.GG18127@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 11:30:18AM -0400, Paul Frields wrote: > On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 6:17 PM, Eric > Christensen wrote: > > On Sat, 2009-08-08 at 14:41 -0400, Paul Frields wrote: > >> On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 12:45 PM, Ian Weller wrote: > >> > On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 03:15:00PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> >> How do we ask for certain document guides to be loaded into the system > >> >> by default and do we have any guides that need to be in the default > >> >> install? > >> >> > >> > I believe that's called "comps". > >> > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/ > >> > > >> > I'm not really sure about the process of adding a package to comps. Best > >> > way to find out, I think, would be to nab someone from FESCo. ;) > >> > >> Which docs do you want loaded automatically? ?I ask because if we're > >> thinking of loading something like release notes, then we should > >> probably obsolete and retire the fedora-release-notes package for > >> F-12. > >> > >> Paul > >> > > > > Hadn't really considered loading anything automatically. ?Someone asked > > me a few months back and I had written the question in my notes but > > couldn't remember getting the answer. > > > > Yeah, we need to get the Release Notes stuff straightened out. > > Here by "automatically" I meant "by default," so I'm asking about the > same docs you're talking about . ;-) Sorry for the confusion. Which > packages, in other words, are you considering adding to comps? Also, I wanted to point out that if you want to retire fedora-release-notes, the sooner the better, especially since the Desktop SIG has to consider eliminating things from the Live spin each release due to space constraints. The fedora-release-notes package is fairly sizable IIRC, and this time around The GIMP is on the chopping block. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From wb8rcr at arrl.net Sun Aug 9 19:20:00 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sun, 9 Aug 2009 15:20:00 -0400 Subject: Packages loaded into Fedora by default References: <20090808164427.GA10893@deathray.ianweller.org><1249769849.2718.2.camel@thunder> <20090809185948.GG18127@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Cc: Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 2:59 PM Subject: Re: Packages loaded into Fedora by default On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 11:30:18AM -0400, Paul Frields wrote: > Also, I wanted to point out that if you want to retire > fedora-release-notes, the sooner the better, especially since the > Desktop SIG has to consider eliminating things from the Live spin each > release due to space constraints. The fedora-release-notes package is > fairly sizable IIRC, and this time around The GIMP is on the chopping > block. I'm not so sure we want to retire fedora-release-notes, but we do hope to put it on a diet. Unfortunately, I'm not ready to make any promises. --McD From loupgaroublond at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 08:41:14 2009 From: loupgaroublond at gmail.com (Yaakov Nemoy) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 10:41:14 +0200 Subject: Back to work with revised to-dos In-Reply-To: <35586fc00908081815r3a800333of9c634e9e786c39f@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10908040420u2a83d7b3gca6c245cb96eb826@mail.gmail.com> <35586fc00908081815r3a800333of9c634e9e786c39f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f692fec0908100141p6bc02bcdgc0e9d2dec080429b@mail.gmail.com> 2009/8/9 sankarshan : > On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 4:50 PM, satya > komaragiri wrote: > >> The last line also made me wonder if my deliverables for GSoC have >> changed. It would be very convenient for me to know what is my to-do >> from GSoC perspective. I am not limiting this project till SoC and >> will make sure I work on it till it is in production use but knowing >> what is expected for SoC can help me order the tasks accordingly. > > I would think that the scope of work as part of your GSoC and, the > scope of work beyond GSoC is something that should be worked out > between your mentor and, yourself. I am tempted to say that the list > of points (just above the paragraph I quoted) does make a significant > difference to the functionality, however, whether you want to do it as > part of your GSoC or, would like to continue rolling them up into > scheduled releases is something one should leave to your sound > judgement. Just my comments, as the mentor. The deliverable i want to see is the docs team using the results of Satya's work. The actual things that need to be implemented are depedent on what the docs team would like to see. There isn't much time left to GSoC, and i don't know how much time Satya will have to work on the project afterwards. I think the best thing to do is to get it working on Fedora Infrastructure as a working usable demo, so people can experiment with it and see if it meets our needs. Then, Satya should use her best judgement on how to spend the rest of the time. As for actual deliverables, i'm not too picky, just as long as there is a tarball which is a bunch of patches or a git repo, or something that Google requires. -Yaakov From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Aug 10 13:01:33 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:01:33 -0400 Subject: Packages loaded into Fedora by default In-Reply-To: References: <20090808164427.GA10893@deathray.ianweller.org> <1249769849.2718.2.camel@thunder> <20090809185948.GG18127@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 15:20, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" > To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" > > Cc: > Sent: Sunday, August 09, 2009 2:59 PM > Subject: Re: Packages loaded into Fedora by default > > > On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 11:30:18AM -0400, Paul Frields wrote: > >> Also, I wanted to point out that if you want to retire >> fedora-release-notes, the sooner the better, especially since the >> Desktop SIG has to consider eliminating things from the Live spin each >> release due to space constraints. ?The fedora-release-notes package is >> fairly sizable IIRC, and this time around The GIMP is on the chopping >> block. > > I'm not so sure we want to retire fedora-release-notes, but we do hope to > put it on a diet. ?Unfortunately, I'm not ready to make any promises. > > --McD Yeah, I don't think it should go on the chopping block but it probably won't be the same package it has been in years past. --Eric From poelstra at redhat.com Mon Aug 10 16:23:11 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 09:23:11 -0700 Subject: Updated Fedora 12 Schedule Message-ID: <4A80496F.1040200@redhat.com> I have updated the schedules based on the public schedule review held on 2009-08-06. I have also changed the formatting of the report as requested to group major tasks/sub-tasks versus a purely chronological report. Documentation: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html Translation: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-trans-tasks.html Combined/chronological: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-trans-tasks.html As always let me know what needs to be fixed or should be reported differently. John From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Aug 10 17:04:25 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 13:04:25 -0400 Subject: Alpha Announcement Message-ID: I need a volunteer (or two) to write up the Alpha Announcement and have it done by Friday. Any takers? --Eric From stickster at gmail.com Mon Aug 10 20:26:03 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 16:26:03 -0400 Subject: Can't find the "SHA1SUM" file on the 'Fedora 11' download page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090810202603.GD17104@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 02:58:05PM -0500, Chas Hunt wrote: > Hi FedoraWebmaster, > > I have downloaded Fedora 11 (my first time), from webpage http:// > fedoraproject.org/en/get-fedora > under heading: Get Fedora 11 Desktop Edition Now > > I'm following instructions on webpage http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ > readme-burning-isos/en_US/sn-validating-files.html > under heading: 3.1. Validating in the Windows Graphical Environment > where: > -- I have downloaded "HashCalc" > -- I now need the "SHA1SUM" file for Fedora 11 -- which I EXPECT to find NEAR > the "Downoad" button, but I can not locate it anywhere in your webpages. > > Please point me to it. > Thanks kindly, > Chas Hunt You can find more information in this bug filing: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504228 This is a known problem in the documentation and is in the process of being fixed. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 10 21:45:20 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:45:20 -0700 Subject: Back to work with revised to-dos In-Reply-To: <7f692fec0908100141p6bc02bcdgc0e9d2dec080429b@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10908040420u2a83d7b3gca6c245cb96eb826@mail.gmail.com> <35586fc00908081815r3a800333of9c634e9e786c39f@mail.gmail.com> <7f692fec0908100141p6bc02bcdgc0e9d2dec080429b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090810214520.GQ11443@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:41:14AM +0200, Yaakov Nemoy wrote: > > The deliverable i want to see is the docs team using the results of > Satya's work. The actual things that need to be implemented are > depedent on what the docs team would like to see. That makes sense. If we've got a web-based wysiwyg DocBook editor that can let me edit guides pulled from fedorahosted.org, that is pretty good. Edit can even be read-only from the SCM with write to local copy or some kind of web-based cache for peer review. The ability to commmit-back via Beacon is nice but probably not as reasonable in the timeframes. Considering each upstream DocBook-based guide has its own SCM and submission policies, it doesn't make a lot of sense to accomodate those until we know they are useful to people. IMO, being able to edit and generate a patch against the upstream original is a very big win. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake, that is, nice to have but not essential for initial iterations. > There isn't much time left to GSoC, and i don't know how much time > Satya will have to work on the project afterwards. I think the best > thing to do is to get it working on Fedora Infrastructure as a working > usable demo, so people can experiment with it and see if it meets our > needs. Then, Satya should use her best judgement on how to spend the > rest of the time. +1 I'll try to clear this up in the Trac ticket. > As for actual deliverables, i'm not too picky, just as long as there > is a tarball which is a bunch of patches or a git repo, or something > that Google requires. Hmm. That is a reasonable interpretation but seems to miss the spirit of the matter. When I see a project with a goal of, "Web-based wysiwyg DocBook editor for Fedora Docs," I presume there is going to be a working instance of something at the end. If all we had was a tarball + patches, we'd be far from a working-to-use system. For example, this is why the Beacon packaging was suggested in the original proposal to begin ASAP -- so the package would be available to Fedora Infrastructure for their build-out of the "working instance of something." In my GSoC experience, projects that focus on a working web service (for example) with a minimum feature set are more successful than a complete feature set in a tarball + patches. I think that goal was clear to Satya and yourself, so this is just further encouragement to keep it a high priority. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 10 21:50:18 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:50:18 -0700 Subject: L10N Priority on Guides In-Reply-To: <4A7C2535.4010503@redhat.com> References: <1249592599.23857.4.camel@thunder> <4A7B7D3E.4050608@redhat.com> <4818cd80908061943h2ab8af85le7577c996d4aec67@mail.gmail.com> <1249646961.2636.2.camel@thunder> <4A7C2535.4010503@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090810215018.GR11443@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 10:59:33PM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > On 08/07/2009 10:09 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: >> On Thu, 2009-08-06 at 23:43 -0300, Domingo Becker wrote: >> >>> 1. Readme Burning ISOs. >>> 2. Readme Live Image. >>> >>> >> The first two in your list are going away. >> > > So will these not be published on docs.fedoraproject.org any more? My understanding is that those are just for mirror servers where actual ISO files are located. That in fact was the original purpose for the "Burning ISOs" document. I'm not clear if that is the case for the "Live Image". IIRC, the conclusion of last week's discussion was those two files do not have a place on an _installed_ system -- you need them to get the installation media, but they do not need packaging for the system itself. > I know that these won't be part of the Release Notes package any more, > but wouldn't it be easier to maintain translations in XML/Transifex > rather than just on the wiki? +1 Some of these smaller, useful READMEs might be attractive to new writers when we have a wysiwym DocBook editor online. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 10 21:55:42 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 14:55:42 -0700 Subject: CC license logos/buttons In-Reply-To: References: <20090807060147.7a8bec62@calliope> <77B80CAAA8B94750B95F7D13D55A51D1@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090810215542.GS11443@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Aug 07, 2009 at 09:41:02AM -0400, Karen Schneider wrote: > > Well, it sounds more like a "replacement" for the license text itself. > > ?Either you use the text or you use the image as a link to the text. > > > > --Eric > > > > Or, you use both, which you can't actually do according to the > licensing terms in an actual print book (because you can't link from > the logo--well, except maybe on a Kindle? :) ), but is probably not > what was intended by the project per se. > > Logically, in a book, the logo out of context would be a bit > meaningless anyway (unless you footnote it... and I don't want to > imagine a world with footnoted logos), but the rule was obviously > designed around an online presence, and then heavily lawyered. They also seem to be treating them like protected marks (cf. trademarks.) They are very restrictive rules, but a summary could be, "You cannot use our logos to refer or mean anything other than what we say they mean." Just as Fedora's trademark enforcement won't allow someone to put the FEDORA logo on a canned meat product, the CC restrictions also won't allow that. - Karsten, IANAL etc. -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 10 22:00:14 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:00:14 -0700 Subject: Adding pages on Transifex In-Reply-To: <4A7DF441.6050105@redhat.com> References: <6600c1b10908070957g4ae34559xa8e779b7f7ccf26b@mail.gmail.com> <20090808121455.2d737292@ulysses> <6d4237680908081012l4015495ak7e0c7690a38bfeb6@mail.gmail.com> <4A7DF441.6050105@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090810220014.GT11443@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, Aug 09, 2009 at 07:55:13AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > On 08/09/2009 03:12 AM, Dimitris Glezos wrote: >> What we need is clear links to the localized documents. Here are two >> alternatives: >> >> 1. On the Get Help page, we list all the documents that the user >> might need. The listing is i18n-ized, so local groups can override the >> English defaults. >> 2. We localize http://docs.fpo/ too. The link on the left menu of the >> main site is localized, so a team which has docs.fpo localized will >> link to the localized version. >> >> > I really like suggestion 2 here. The Docs project has been talking about > a need to overhaul the docs pages to reduce clutter like this: > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/ > > It seems to me that whatever design we come up with, we need to make it > localisable, like the main page of the site. And to continue waving the flag, this is somewhere we are relying upon Zikula to help. I am certain that l10n using PO/POT files was a requirement that Zikula fulfilled. We'll just need to get the specific strings for the docs.fp.o instance loaded as a module. It makes sense to add it to the existing Web team module, IMO. Anyone have this task already on their list? Can we automate or spread the capability to update PO/POT files from within Zikula so people aren't stuck waiting for translations to update? Etc. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Mon Aug 10 22:02:38 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 15:02:38 -0700 Subject: Alpha Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090810220238.GU11443@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 01:04:25PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > I need a volunteer (or two) to write up the Alpha Announcement and > have it done by Friday. Any takers? The early announcements are usually very simple. We save the fun, irreverent, and whimsical for the final announcement. An Alpha release announcement is more about highlighting what needs testing, where to get stuf, and how to do essential contributor stuff. This Alpha is (supposedly) different, more stable? Thus we want to highlight that in some way. Are we hearing anything from developers and feature owners about what they need us to highlight in announcements and release notes? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Mon Aug 10 23:10:08 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 19:10:08 -0400 Subject: Alpha Announcement References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Monday, August 10, 2009 1:04 PM Subject: Alpha Announcement >I need a volunteer (or two) to write up the Alpha Announcement and > have it done by Friday. Any takers? > > --Eric I would be happy to help someone wanting to take this on, but I will be out of town a fair bit this week, so I really can't take point myself. --McD From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Aug 11 01:14:52 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:14:52 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908110114.n7B1EqYs009721@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 Paul W. Frields changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |516665 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Aug 11 01:14:51 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2009 21:14:51 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908110114.n7B1EpSJ009676@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 Paul W. Frields changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |516664 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From noriko at redhat.com Tue Aug 11 02:09:26 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:09:26 +1000 Subject: Updated Fedora 12 Schedule In-Reply-To: <4A80496F.1040200@redhat.com> References: <4A80496F.1040200@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A80D2D6.1010300@redhat.com> John Poelstra ????????: > I have updated the schedules based on the public schedule review held > on 2009-08-06. I have also changed the formatting of the report as > requested to group major tasks/sub-tasks versus a purely chronological > report. Beautiful work, thank you. Just minor edit request for f-12-trans-tasks as below. 15. Translate Beta Release Notes Tue 2009-09-01 Thu 2009-09-10 => date to be Wed 2009-09-02 Wed 2009-09-16 16. Translate Beta Release Notes Tue 2009-09-01 Mon 2009-09-28 => Pls remove, this is duplicated entry 17. Ongoing build translation review htmls Wed 2009-09-16 Mon 2009-09-28 => Pls remove, this is not a task for trans but docs only 18. Translation review htmls for Beta Wed 2009-09-16 Mon 2009-09-28 => Pls change the entry name for consistency to: "Review and correct Beta Release Notes (daily buids html) Wed 2009-09-16 Mon 2009-09-28" New. Build fed-rel-notes.rpm for Beta Release Notes Tue 2009-09-29 => Pls add this entry as milestone after '19 Translation Deadline: Beta Release Notes (PO Files complete) Mon 2009-09-28'. The entry exists in f-12-docs-and-trans-tasks (38. Build fed-rel-notes.rpm for Beta Release 2009-09-28), but the date seems wrong. It should be 29-Sep according to jjmcd's schedule. New. Review and correct GA Release Notes (daily builds html) Fri 2009-10-23 Mon 2009-10-26 => Pls add this entry after '28. Translate GA Release Notes (POT to PO) Tue 2009-10-20 Fri 2009-10-23'. 29. Translation Deadline: GA rel-nots (PO Files complete) Fri 2009-10-23 Fri 2009-10-23 => The date should be Mon 2009-10-26. New. Build fed-rel-notes.rpm for GA Release Tue 2009-10-27 => Pls add this entry as milestone after '29. Translation Deadline: GA rel-nots (PO Files complete)'. The entry exists in f-12-docs-and-trans-tasks (59 Build fedora-release-notes.rpm 2009-10-23 2009-10-26), but the date seems wrong. It should be one day task of 27-Oct according to jjmcd's schedule. 32. Review Translated Guides Thu 2009-10-22 Thu 2009-10-29 => Pls change the entry name for consistency to: "Review and correct Translated Guides (daily buids html) New. Final Build All Guides: All Languages 2009-10-30 => Pls add this entry as milestone after '33 Translation Deadline: All Guides 2009-10-29'. The entry exists in f-12-docs-and-trans-tasks (67 Final Build All Guides: All Languages 2009-10-30). Rest, all looks great. F12 will be much well organized than any other releases. Thanks a lot again to John and docs team for caring localization team! noriko > > Documentation: > http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html > > Translation: > http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-trans-tasks.html > > Combined/chronological: > http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-trans-tasks.html > > > As always let me know what needs to be fixed or should be reported > differently. > > John > From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 04:02:23 2009 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (sankarshan) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 09:32:23 +0530 Subject: Back to work with revised to-dos In-Reply-To: <20090810214520.GQ11443@calliope.phig.org> References: <146c63b10908040420u2a83d7b3gca6c245cb96eb826@mail.gmail.com> <35586fc00908081815r3a800333of9c634e9e786c39f@mail.gmail.com> <7f692fec0908100141p6bc02bcdgc0e9d2dec080429b@mail.gmail.com> <20090810214520.GQ11443@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <35586fc00908102102q68829bblc47d75e03124ff1e@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Karsten Wade wrote: > That makes sense. ?If we've got a web-based wysiwyg DocBook editor > that can let me edit guides pulled from fedorahosted.org, that is > pretty good. ?Edit can even be read-only from the SCM with write to > local copy or some kind of web-based cache for peer review. I'd suggest a somewhat interim (and, fairly quick) blog post around the following bits: - what is currently available - what is projected to be available within the GSoC timeline - what could be available beyond GSoC timeline * more in terms of a roadmap The above should provide a guidance on what the Docs team can expect in terms of functionality and, whether the project would be in a consumption-ready state. > Hmm. ?That is a reasonable interpretation but seems to miss the spirit > of the matter. ?When I see a project with a goal of, "Web-based > wysiwyg DocBook editor for Fedora Docs," I presume there is going to > be a working instance of something at the end. I'd love to have a "test" instance set up that actually allows anyone to see how things are. /sankarshan -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work From ankit at redhat.com Tue Aug 11 07:04:15 2009 From: ankit at redhat.com (Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 12:34:15 +0530 Subject: Updated Fedora 12 Schedule In-Reply-To: <4A80D2D6.1010300@redhat.com> References: <4A80496F.1040200@redhat.com> <4A80D2D6.1010300@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A8117EF.70703@redhat.com> Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > Beautiful work, thank you. > Just minor edit request for f-12-trans-tasks as below. [...] and I think one more change is required for "Software Translation" in http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-trans-tasks.html tasks 7 and 8 needs to be swapped and can't run parallel. basically it should be like as below: 7. Test Package Builds with latest translations for Translation Review (for Package Maintainers) start: Thu 2009-09-10 end: Tue 2009-09-15 duration: 5 days 8. Review Software Translations (for Translators) start: Wed 2009-09-16 end: Tue 2009-09-22 duration: 7 days > > Rest, all looks great. F12 will be much well organized than any other > releases. > Thanks a lot again to John and docs team for caring localization team! > > noriko > Thanks! -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ http://www.ankit644.com/ From noriko at redhat.com Tue Aug 11 07:20:46 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:20:46 +1000 Subject: Updated Fedora 12 Schedule In-Reply-To: <4A8117EF.70703@redhat.com> References: <4A80496F.1040200@redhat.com> <4A80D2D6.1010300@redhat.com> <4A8117EF.70703@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A811BCE.6090206@redhat.com> Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel ????????: > Noriko Mizumoto wrote: >> Beautiful work, thank you. >> Just minor edit request for f-12-trans-tasks as below. > [...] > > and I think one more change is required for "Software Translation" in > http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-trans-tasks.html > > tasks 7 and 8 needs to be swapped and can't run parallel. basically it > should be like as below: > > 7. Test Package Builds with latest translations for Translation Review > (for Package Maintainers) > start: Thu 2009-09-10 > end: Tue 2009-09-15 > duration: 5 days > > 8. Review Software Translations (for Translators) > start: Wed 2009-09-16 > end: Tue 2009-09-22 > duration: 7 days Aha, good point!! This order looks perfect. Thanks for pointing this out. The task addition request for 'Build Test Packages for review' has been sent to FESCo with tentative dates 09-03 to 09-15. And Alpha slips now, so for dates, let's see how FESCo responds. noriko > >> >> Rest, all looks great. F12 will be much well organized than any other >> releases. >> Thanks a lot again to John and docs team for caring localization team! >> >> noriko >> > > Thanks! > From loupgaroublond at gmail.com Tue Aug 11 08:52:15 2009 From: loupgaroublond at gmail.com (Yaakov Nemoy) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:52:15 +0200 Subject: Back to work with revised to-dos In-Reply-To: <20090810214520.GQ11443@calliope.phig.org> References: <146c63b10908040420u2a83d7b3gca6c245cb96eb826@mail.gmail.com> <35586fc00908081815r3a800333of9c634e9e786c39f@mail.gmail.com> <7f692fec0908100141p6bc02bcdgc0e9d2dec080429b@mail.gmail.com> <20090810214520.GQ11443@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <7f692fec0908110152g37a84ee1w1180e258c6ec6cfc@mail.gmail.com> 2009/8/10 Karsten Wade : > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 10:41:14AM +0200, Yaakov Nemoy wrote: >> As for actual deliverables, i'm not too picky, just as long as there >> is a tarball which is a bunch of patches or a git repo, or something >> that Google requires. > > Hmm. ?That is a reasonable interpretation but seems to miss the spirit > of the matter. ?When I see a project with a goal of, "Web-based > wysiwyg DocBook editor for Fedora Docs," I presume there is going to > be a working instance of something at the end. > > If all we had was a tarball + patches, we'd be far from a > working-to-use system. ?For example, this is why the Beacon packaging > was suggested in the original proposal to begin ASAP -- so the package > would be available to Fedora Infrastructure for their build-out of the > "working instance of something." > > In my GSoC experience, projects that focus on a working web service > (for example) with a minimum feature set are more successful than a > complete feature set in a tarball + patches. > > I think that goal was clear to Satya and yourself, so this is just > further encouragement to keep it a high priority. Let me clear this up. That's what Satya needs to deliver to Google in order to get paid. In order for me to pass her though, i want to see something working, namely a demo online that people are evaluating. -Yaakov From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Aug 11 14:10:00 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:10:00 -0400 Subject: Alpha Announcement In-Reply-To: <20090810220238.GU11443@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090810220238.GU11443@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 18:02, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, Aug 10, 2009 at 01:04:25PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> I need a volunteer (or two) to write up the Alpha Announcement and >> have it done by Friday. ?Any takers? > > > > The early announcements are usually very simple. ?We save the fun, > irreverent, and whimsical for the final announcement. > > An Alpha release announcement is more about highlighting what needs > testing, where to get stuf, and how to do essential contributor stuff. > > This Alpha is (supposedly) different, more stable? ?Thus we want to > highlight that in some way. > > > > Are we hearing anything from developers and feature owners about what > they need us to highlight in announcements and release notes? > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener > http://quaid.fedorapeople.org > AD0E0C41 I haven't heard anything. Yeah, this is going to be a simple one to write but, like John, I won't be available very much this week. Lots of stuff going on @ home. --Eric From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Aug 11 14:29:01 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 19:59:01 +0530 Subject: Alpha Announcement In-Reply-To: <20090810220238.GU11443@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090810220238.GU11443@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4A81802D.40301@fedoraproject.org> On 08/11/2009 03:32 AM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > Are we hearing anything from developers and feature owners about what > they need us to highlight in announcements and release notes? I got some feedback sending it to fedora-devel and fedora-test lists. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes Rahul From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Aug 11 14:41:09 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:41:09 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908111441.n7BEf9S2011751@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |516793 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Aug 11 14:41:08 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:41:08 -0400 Subject: [Bug 516793] New: Need to package FCKeditor Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Need to package FCKeditor https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=516793 Summary: Need to package FCKeditor Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: high Priority: high Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com ReportedBy: eric at christensenplace.us QAContact: eric at christensenplace.us CC: stickster at gmail.com Blocks: 504066 Classification: Fedora Download: http://code.zikula.org/scribite/downloads -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Aug 11 14:42:30 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:42:30 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908111442.n7BEgUWh008037@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |516794 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Aug 11 14:42:30 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 10:42:30 -0400 Subject: [Bug 516794] New: Need to package OpenWYSIWYG Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Need to package OpenWYSIWYG https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=516794 Summary: Need to package OpenWYSIWYG Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: high Priority: high Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com ReportedBy: eric at christensenplace.us QAContact: eric at christensenplace.us CC: stickster at gmail.com Blocks: 504066 Classification: Fedora Download: http://code.zikula.org/scribite/downloads -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From kwade at redhat.com Tue Aug 11 18:35:38 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2009 11:35:38 -0700 Subject: agenda and idea for 12 Aug meeting Message-ID: <20090811183538.GC11443@calliope.phig.org> (Cross-posted to logistics & docs lists because of wider topic.) John Poelstra has proposed having the Zikula schedule discussion as the first part of the Docs meeting this week, after Paul's suggestion to preempt the Docs meeting for this important topic. Because that works best via voice, we are going to be mostly discussing on sip:2009 at talk.fedoraproject.org. How about if we just *move* the Zikula coordination meeting to interact with the Docs meeting until the CMS is rolled out? How does Docs feel about that? To do that, we would want to take all of the status-of-guides notices directly to the list _before_ the meeting. Then we can discuss exceptions to the schedule in the meeting, if needed. This week, I propose that we spend the second part of the meeting discussing the Docs/L10n schedule. These goals: 1. Explain it to everyone present 2. Figure how to show key dates, etc. so it is clear to writers/editors 3. How to manage regular reminders (nagging) of upcoming dates My experience shows that a complex schedule with a distributed team requires regular reminders and continuous understanding. Talk about it often. Show how it changes over time. Make sure people don't forget key dates. That's the (permanent) agenda topic I propose, starting this week with deeper understanding for all. Since John (poelcat) will be present, he can help us explain the schedule; we can talk about presentation choices, etc. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From noriko at redhat.com Wed Aug 12 04:13:39 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 14:13:39 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [fedora] question about &PRODVER;] Message-ID: <4A824173.5060708@redhat.com> Hi Docs team There is one question I can not find the answer, please help. I've looked through https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/docs-common-entities/master/, but it seems no such entity in this file. thank you for your help noriko -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [fedora] question about &PRODVER; Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:11:02 +1000 From: Yulia Poyarkova To: noriko at redhat.com References: <4A8204E2.6020908 at redhat.com> <4A823045.3020602 at redhat.com> He mentioned file https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/docs-readme-burning-isos/master/ Apparently there is a string like this: "... if downloading Fedora &PRODVER; for a Pentium 4..." Noriko Mizumoto ?????: > Yulia Poyarkova ????????: >> Hi Noriko, >> >> I got a question from Russian Fedora translators. >> Is there some place/file where we could see the list of those special >> symbols like (&PRODVER; —), >> because sometimes it's not quite clear what they mean exactly. >> >> Thank you, >> Yulia > Can you point where those entities can be found? > > noriko > From piotrdrag at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 11:09:03 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 13:09:03 +0200 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [fedora] question about &PRODVER;] In-Reply-To: <4A824173.5060708@redhat.com> References: <4A824173.5060708@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A82A2CF.8060002@gmail.com> W dniu 12.08.2009 06:13, Noriko Mizumoto pisze: > There is one question I can not find the answer, please help. > I've looked through > https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/docs-common-entities/master/, > but it seems no such entity in this file. > These entities are not used anymore, they are from our old toolchain and are obsolete. Now with Publican we use per-document entities in .ent file, like [1]. So &PRODVER; is just 11 in this case. In this file you can see also other entities used in document (like &HOLDER;), but — is just a HTML character entity for dash [2]. [1] http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=docs/readme-burning-isos.git;a=blob;f=en-US/Burning_ISO_images_to_disc.ent;hb=HEAD [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Aug 12 13:22:30 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 09:22:30 -0400 Subject: agenda and idea for 12 Aug meeting In-Reply-To: <20090811183538.GC11443@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090811183538.GC11443@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 14:35, Karsten Wade wrote: > (Cross-posted to logistics & docs lists because of wider topic.) > > John Poelstra has proposed having the Zikula schedule discussion as > the first part of the Docs meeting this week, after Paul's suggestion > to preempt the Docs meeting for this important topic. ?Because that > works best via voice, we are going to be mostly discussing on > sip:2009 at talk.fedoraproject.org. > > How about if we just *move* the Zikula coordination meeting to > interact with the Docs meeting until the CMS is rolled out? ?How does > Docs feel about that? Well, my only fear is that we currently burn up the entire hour talking about Zikula in our Zikula meetings and we also burn up an hour talking about Docs in our Docs meetings. The Docs team can stand to miss a meeting here and there but too many and we aren't going to be ready for the F12 roll out. Also, the two teams involved (Docs and Zikula) are contain different people. Not everyone in Docs is working on the Zikula project. > cheers - Karsten Just my $0.02... --Eric From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 12 15:23:10 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:23:10 -0400 Subject: agenda and idea for 12 Aug meeting In-Reply-To: References: <20090811183538.GC11443@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20090812152310.GA3985@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 09:22:30AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 14:35, Karsten Wade wrote: > > (Cross-posted to logistics & docs lists because of wider topic.) > > > > John Poelstra has proposed having the Zikula schedule discussion as > > the first part of the Docs meeting this week, after Paul's suggestion > > to preempt the Docs meeting for this important topic. ?Because that > > works best via voice, we are going to be mostly discussing on > > sip:2009 at talk.fedoraproject.org. > > > > How about if we just *move* the Zikula coordination meeting to > > interact with the Docs meeting until the CMS is rolled out? ?How does > > Docs feel about that? > > Well, my only fear is that we currently burn up the entire hour > talking about Zikula in our Zikula meetings and we also burn up an > hour talking about Docs in our Docs meetings. The Docs team can stand > to miss a meeting here and there but too many and we aren't going to > be ready for the F12 roll out. > > Also, the two teams involved (Docs and Zikula) are contain different > people. Not everyone in Docs is working on the Zikula project. Understood. Just to clarify, does this mean that you're OK with doing it this once, to get the Zikula schedule clarified? Or do you have an alternate suggestion that would help us get that done without disrupting the Docs meeting schedule? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Aug 12 15:29:37 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:29:37 -0400 Subject: agenda and idea for 12 Aug meeting In-Reply-To: <20090812152310.GA3985@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090811183538.GC11443@calliope.phig.org> <20090812152310.GA3985@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:23, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 09:22:30AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> On Tue, Aug 11, 2009 at 14:35, Karsten Wade wrote: >> > (Cross-posted to logistics & docs lists because of wider topic.) >> > >> > John Poelstra has proposed having the Zikula schedule discussion as >> > the first part of the Docs meeting this week, after Paul's suggestion >> > to preempt the Docs meeting for this important topic. ?Because that >> > works best via voice, we are going to be mostly discussing on >> > sip:2009 at talk.fedoraproject.org. >> > >> > How about if we just *move* the Zikula coordination meeting to >> > interact with the Docs meeting until the CMS is rolled out? ?How does >> > Docs feel about that? >> >> Well, my only fear is that we currently burn up the entire hour >> talking about Zikula in our Zikula meetings and we also burn up an >> hour talking about Docs in our Docs meetings. ?The Docs team can stand >> to miss a meeting here and there but too many and we aren't going to >> be ready for the F12 roll out. >> >> Also, the two teams involved (Docs and Zikula) are contain different >> people. ?Not everyone in Docs is working on the Zikula project. > > Understood. ?Just to clarify, does this mean that you're OK with doing > it this once, to get the Zikula schedule clarified? ?Or do you have an > alternate suggestion that would help us get that done without > disrupting the Docs meeting schedule? > I'm good with doing it once to get back on track. I don't think combining the two meetings together will yield enough time to do either projects, though. I don't think John (jjmcd) is working on the Zikula stuff. He could actually run the Docs meeting tonight for those that aren't working on Zikula to talk about the Alpha release and getting stuff ready for Beta. --Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Aug 12 15:59:25 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 11:59:25 -0400 Subject: Docs on fh.o Message-ID: Are all guides in a repo on fedorahosted.org? --Eric From kwade at redhat.com Wed Aug 12 17:42:48 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 10:42:48 -0700 Subject: agenda and idea for 12 Aug meeting In-Reply-To: References: <20090811183538.GC11443@calliope.phig.org> <20090812152310.GA3985@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090812174248.GX11443@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:29:37AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 11:23, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > Understood. ?Just to clarify, does this mean that you're OK with doing > > it this once, to get the Zikula schedule clarified? ?Or do you have an > > alternate suggestion that would help us get that done without > > disrupting the Docs meeting schedule? > > > > I'm good with doing it once to get back on track. I don't think > combining the two meetings together will yield enough time to do > either projects, though. BTW, one reason I proposed a combining of the meetings is the obvious challenge John Poelcat has had getting i) a Zikula meeting time, and ii) all of us to be there. I thought combining or adding to our meeting would work best because it's a fixed timed we already have in the rhythm. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Aug 12 23:41:40 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 16:41:40 -0700 Subject: Updated Fedora 12 Schedule In-Reply-To: <4A80D2D6.1010300@redhat.com> References: <4A80496F.1040200@redhat.com> <4A80D2D6.1010300@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A835334.9020008@redhat.com> Noriko Mizumoto said the following on 08/10/2009 07:09 PM Pacific Time: > John Poelstra ????????: >> I have updated the schedules based on the public schedule review held >> on 2009-08-06. I have also changed the formatting of the report as >> requested to group major tasks/sub-tasks versus a purely chronological >> report. > Beautiful work, thank you. > Just minor edit request for f-12-trans-tasks as below. Thanks for all your feedback. Just a quick note to let you know that I am working on integrating these changes, but it is taking longer than I had hoped. Should have things updated by Friday. John From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Aug 12 23:51:21 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:51:21 +1000 Subject: Docs on fh.o In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A835579.908@redhat.com> On 08/13/2009 01:59 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > Are all guides in a repo on fedorahosted.org? > Yes -- the entries in the "Publican" column in the Guides table link to the repos. From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 13 00:05:18 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2009 20:05:18 -0400 Subject: No meeting this week Message-ID: <1250121918.2675.2.camel@thunder> Sorry for the late notice... Zikula meeting is preempting the Docs meeting this week. I'll be asking for updates on the list later tonight. -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Lead Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From noriko at redhat.com Thu Aug 13 03:43:21 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:43:21 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [fedora] question about &PRODVER;] In-Reply-To: <4A82A2CF.8060002@gmail.com> References: <4A824173.5060708@redhat.com> <4A82A2CF.8060002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A838BD9.2060709@redhat.com> Piotr Dr?g ????????: > W dniu 12.08.2009 06:13, Noriko Mizumoto pisze: >> There is one question I can not find the answer, please help. >> I've looked through >> https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/docs-common-entities/master/, >> >> but it seems no such entity in this file. >> > > These entities are not used anymore, they are from our old toolchain and > are obsolete. Now with Publican we use per-document entities in .ent > file, like [1]. So &PRODVER; is just 11 in this case. In this file you > can see also other entities used in document (like &HOLDER;), but > — is just a HTML character entity for dash [2]. > > [1] > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=docs/readme-burning-isos.git;a=blob;f=en-US/Burning_ISO_images_to_disc.ent;hb=HEAD > > > [2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dash#Em_dash oh, ok. thank you so much for your information! noriko From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 13 12:58:08 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 08:58:08 -0400 Subject: Alpha Announcement Message-ID: <1250168288.21019.5.camel@thunder> I've taken the Alpha announcement from F10 and morphed it[1] for F12. Please take a look at it and see what you can update. This should be completed by COB tomorrow (Friday). [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Announcement_for_F12_Alpha_Release --Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 13:14:58 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:44:58 +0530 Subject: DocBook Editor Update Message-ID: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I have uploaded a standalone version at http://publictest1.fedoraproject.org/beacon/php/ It would be very nice if you could test it out and give some feedback. I have not completed the testing yet and there are definitely bugs present. In this light I was hoping for a small issue management system that would allow users to post bugs related to this demo in one place. I would not start using it for important docs just yet. Until 17th I hope we can get a proper beta release out with feedback, etc. Some buttons may not work as am plugging in the functionality on the go. Login requires you to enter your FAS account details. Regards, Satya From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 13 13:16:54 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:16:54 -0400 Subject: DocBook Editor Update In-Reply-To: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1250169414.21019.6.camel@thunder> On Thu, 2009-08-13 at 18:44 +0530, satya komaragiri wrote: > Hello, > > I have uploaded a standalone version at > http://publictest1.fedoraproject.org/beacon/php/ > > It would be very nice if you could test it out and give some > feedback. I have not completed the testing yet and there are > definitely bugs present. In this light I was hoping for a small issue > management system that would allow users to post bugs related to this > demo in one place. I would not start using it for important docs just > yet. Until 17th I hope we can get a proper beta release out with > feedback, etc. Some buttons may not work as am plugging in the > functionality on the go. > > Login requires you to enter your FAS account details. > > Regards, > Satya > Satya, Is the FAS login secured by SSL? --Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 13:27:54 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:27:54 -0400 Subject: DocBook Editor Update In-Reply-To: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090813132754.GD9329@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 06:44:58PM +0530, satya komaragiri wrote: > Hello, > > I have uploaded a standalone version at > http://publictest1.fedoraproject.org/beacon/php/ > > It would be very nice if you could test it out and give some > feedback. I have not completed the testing yet and there are > definitely bugs present. In this light I was hoping for a small issue > management system that would allow users to post bugs related to this > demo in one place. I would not start using it for important docs just > yet. Until 17th I hope we can get a proper beta release out with > feedback, etc. Some buttons may not work as am plugging in the > functionality on the go. > > Login requires you to enter your FAS account details. A usability note -- adding a new node is difficult in the left editor pane. The *concept* of adding a node is going to be foreign to the people who might otherwise use this editor. I would expect that if I am in the left editor pane, and I move to the end of an existing node and hit "Enter," a new node would be inserted of an appropriate kind, probably based on the context but falling back to some sane default like a . -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 13:39:29 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 09:39:29 -0400 Subject: Alpha Announcement In-Reply-To: <1250168288.21019.5.camel@thunder> References: <1250168288.21019.5.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090813133929.GE9329@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 08:58:08AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > I've taken the Alpha announcement from F10 and morphed it[1] for F12. > Please take a look at it and see what you can update. This should be > completed by COB tomorrow (Friday). > > [1] > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Announcement_for_F12_Alpha_Release Keeping in mind that our previous Alpha releases ("Can we successfully compose it?") were somewhat different than the current Alpha ("Should be generally testable"), the content of this announcement may need to change somewhat. Here's the F11 Beta announcement for comparison: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Beta_Announcement Note the new Alpha is something more like previous Beta, and the new Beta coming next month is more like previous Preview Release. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Aug 13 17:12:35 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:12:35 -0400 Subject: Alpha Announcement References: <1250168288.21019.5.camel@thunder> <20090813133929.GE9329@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1901764E6D534651B39B5A6BC2EAF4FC@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:39 AM Subject: Re: Alpha Announcement > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 08:58:08AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> I've taken the Alpha announcement from F10 and morphed it[1] for F12. >> Please take a look at it and see what you can update. This should be >> completed by COB tomorrow (Friday). >> >> [1] >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Announcement_for_F12_Alpha_Release > > Keeping in mind that our previous Alpha releases ("Can we successfully > compose it?") were somewhat different than the current Alpha ("Should > be generally testable"), the content of this announcement may need to > change somewhat. Here's the F11 Beta announcement for comparison: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Beta_Announcement > > Note the new Alpha is something more like previous Beta, and the new > Beta coming next month is more like previous Preview Release. I was thinking the same thing. (Just getting caught up after broken email). It is probably worth mentioning something like we have always said rawhide is known to eat babies, with this new strategy we probably don't know whether alpha will be more or less voracious. --McD From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 13 17:40:45 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:40:45 -0400 Subject: Release Notes Meeting 2009-08-13 IRC log Message-ID: <1250185245.21019.10.camel@thunder> 15:03:13 #startmeeting Release Notes Meeting 15:03:28 * Sparks 15:03:32 * stickster (somewhat here) 15:03:58 Well, we already started the discussion we have to have today 15:04:48 Yeah... let's look at the old tasks and see what we still need to do and then continue that conversation 15:05:13 anyone else? 15:05:18 where's the minutes? 15:05:20 link to the old stuff? 15:05:32 http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-August/msg00072.html 15:05:53 I've been posting all the meeting information at the same place as the Docs Meetings 15:06:07 jjmcd to contact lynx developers about homepage 15:06:25 OK, last week I emailed the lynx maintainer 15:06:30 no response yet 15:06:45 still didn't write f-dev-l, wanted the lynx maintainer to have a few days 15:06:54 and email been borked past coupld 15:07:01 #action jjmcd to follow up with lynx maintainer about homepage 15:07:08 jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage 15:07:20 #action jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage 15:07:35 Sparks to investigate how RH handles various languages of Publican 15:07:46 rudi: Can you answer that? 15:08:04 Sparks, I tested, handles them poorly 15:08:06 How does RH manage different languages for installations of RHEL? 15:08:18 http://www.mi-nts.org/sl/DocMenu3.png 15:08:37 Hmmm 15:09:07 well, publican, still want to hear what RH does 15:09:14 Ya 15:09:19 Sorry -- I'm not sure 15:09:27 I'll try to follow up with mhideo tonight. 15:09:41 rudi: Is RHEL 5 using Publican-based docs at this time? 15:09:47 Yes 15:09:51 #action Sparks to follow up with mhideo about how RHEL handles multiple languages of Publican docs. 15:10:32 Sparks: So when we say "handle," you mean, what's installed by default, and what are considered the expected behaviors when someone installs multiple languages? 15:10:41 yes 15:11:15 * stickster is thinking adopting a Fedora default of "install all languages" needs to go to f-devel-l 15:11:15 Anything else in old tasks? 15:12:11 Okay... let's move to ideas of handling multiple languages in GNOME 15:12:27 Well, if it's only Gnome, it's easy 15:12:34 yelp does the job well 15:13:05 #idea Install all languages and have Yelp figure out what language to display based on logged in language. 15:13:26 #idea Install all html and write a helper app 15:13:34 Yelp ONLY knows if the file has all the languages in it. Can it handle it if the languages are in different files? 15:13:51 THey are in different files 15:14:21 Yeah? So can they handle various xml files made in Publican? 15:14:23 * stickster confused what "the file" is 15:14:41 Yelp expects things to land in /usr/share/gnome/help/$DOCNAME/$LANG/ 15:14:50 Sparks, yes, we take publican's output xml and give that to yelp 15:14:54 "the file" == Publican output of a specific language of a book 15:15:01 Only prob is yelp doesn't display the changelog 15:15:17 But the changelog is included INSIDE the book 15:15:28 Yes, but it shows up as empty in yelp 15:15:34 jjmcd: Did you know that shaunm can probably help you get that fixed? 15:15:36 file a bug in yelp 15:15:44 * stickster thinks inviting him into this meeting might be good 15:15:53 shaunm maintains gnome-doc-utils upstream. 15:15:59 stickster, no, I didn't. I suspect it is a yelp bug or a publican-specific tag 15:16:09 It's not a publican-specific tag, it's just DocBook 15:16:12 15:16:29 Yeah, kinda strange how it doesn't show up 15:16:58 So good, now I know it's yelp and not Publican, so I can file a bug 15:17:38 #action jjmcd to file a bug against Yelp to fix revision history from a Publican file 15:18:41 So this is no longer a problem? 15:19:07 Sparks, FYI: /usr/share/gnome/help/fedora-release-notes 15:19:29 * Sparks really doesn't like this stuff being under "help" 15:20:03 Publican does not create the omf file. If we stay with yelp, perhaps we should request that feature 15:20:07 * stickster notes that fedora-doc-utils used to have a way of putting things in a Documentation menu, but still using Yelp for the display. 15:20:27 I don't think Yelp requires scrollkeeper anymore, but I could be wrong 15:20:41 Yes, I think in 10 we had about-fedora in two places 15:22:16 stickster, If I recall, I took some liberties in 11 and was surprised they worked 15:22:32 So perhaps yelp is smarter than I was giving it credit for 15:23:05 jjmcd: Okay... experiment with Yelp and see what you can do... 15:23:14 There are two ways to make Yelp bring up a doc 15:23:16 let's move on to KDE to see if we can get some ideas out about that. 15:23:23 yelp file://$PATH/$DOC.xml 15:23:26 or 15:23:31 yelp ghelp://$DOCNAME 15:23:40 We know we can make yelp work, but that doesn't help the KDE guys 15:23:43 the second form for things that are entered into whatever's the new form of scrollkeeper 15:23:46 Ahhh, cool 15:24:14 and $DOCNAME is a subdir of gnome/help? 15:24:30 jjmcd: correct 15:25:08 I know there are those who would prefer html because it is desktop-agnostic 15:25:25 And on the topic of HTML... 15:25:33 maybe rudi can enlighten us 15:25:35 KDE can't use XML, AFAIK 15:25:53 Sorry guys -- one sec 15:26:10 So do we have to use HTML for KDE? 15:26:21 * stickster notes rudi is in #fedora-meeting right now too 15:26:42 Yeah -- power management stuff :) 15:26:56 We see where we rank. 15:27:04 lolz 15:27:12 http://quality.kde.org/develop/howto/howtodocs.php <-- indicates KDE uses XML 15:27:24 Let me check to see what the help on my machine here looks like 15:27:43 So we CAN use xml for both GNOME and KDE? 15:28:07 http://kde.org/getinvolved/documentation/ 15:29:04 Looks like they are pushing DocBook 15:29:07 http://l10n.kde.org/docs/doc-primer/ 15:29:21 They may require a conversion to HTML for their display tool 15:29:25 * stickster refreshing memory, it's been a while. 15:29:27 http://l10n.kde.org/docs//markup/index.html 15:30:04 A lot of these will make things hard for Publican. 15:30:52 Okay... so what do we NEED to know? 15:30:56 Among tags they don't use: articleinfo, edition, sgmltag, productname, productnumber, remark, revhistory (!) 15:31:10 Sparks: That HTML is probably going to be the way to go. 15:31:28 You would probably need to install two .desktop files for a document 15:32:00 One would include "OnlyShowIn=GNOME" and the other "OnlyShowIn=KDE" 15:32:01 two .desktop files? We'd need to packages for each language... 15:32:11 one with HTML and one with XML... 15:32:23 as I THINK it only packages it with XML, now. 15:32:23 Why? 15:32:24 both with html 15:32:37 Okay... so can Yelp handle HTML? 15:32:39 No, we package both in the same rpm currently 15:32:49 With Publican? 15:32:50 yelp file://$PATH/somefile.html <-- works fine 15:32:54 try it: 15:33:07 Ahhhhh 15:33:15 yelp file:///usr/share/doc/HTML/fedora-release-notes/en-US/fedora-release-notes-en-US.html 15:33:25 Except that dang .SVG file 15:33:27 Okay, so we aren't going to push any more XML... only HTML? 15:33:40 We gotta get rid of the svg file 15:34:29 * jjmcd can see he is going to have to get a lot more friendly with sed 15:34:42 So are saying that we will not push any document as XML, only HTTP? 15:34:54 I don't know we said that 15:35:12 Okay, I ask, then... Why do we need to use XML? 15:35:19 Sparks: XML is for the document creation. 15:35:31 Altho, if we can set up yelp to automagically select the correct html that may be a plus 15:35:33 I'm talking about the end product not the production 15:35:56 Sparks: For the end product, I'm not seeing a big reason to ship XML in a package for end users. 15:36:16 Yeah, I'm thinking that too. That would cut the payload almost in half 15:36:22 Okay... now does Publican 1.0 package HTML? 15:36:38 But I'm from Missouri, I need to do more testing 15:37:30 rudi: Can Publican 1.0 package HTML? 15:37:39 Don't know what Publican 1.0 does, but 0.44 does it lamely 15:38:06 Well, there is going to be no further development of 0.44 so we need to look towards 1.0 15:38:25 Again, I have to say don't know -- I haven't really checked out the packaging features 15:38:47 Sparks, I'm not sure it matters, at this point I'm not expecting Publican to make the package. The only question in my mind is can we make it look right for the end user 15:39:02 We have to use Publican 15:39:16 This is a decision that affects ALL our guides 15:39:21 There are so many things it does wrong now it would be a miracle for it to get them all fixed in the next release 15:39:39 1.0 has fixed many things. 15:39:49 OK, I can see that. But the other guides are only going to be packaged as single languages, right? 15:40:08 yes... how are you going to do the RN? 15:40:19 And if you have a single html, publican already does that 15:40:25 Like we do today 15:40:52 Like Paul said, we probably need a long discussion with releng if we want to take 41 langs off LiveCD 15:41:13 Well, there are definite negatives to a single package 15:41:31 We wouldn't take the languages off the LiveCD... just separate them 15:41:40 Yes, but the negatives of multilple packages are much more significant for RNs than for the others 15:41:48 like? 15:42:02 That said, how many of those 41 languages are translated to any appreciable degree? 15:42:06 RNs are in the default distro and, more significantly, in the live CD. 15:42:17 rudi - I would say better than half 15:42:31 Only a few are 100% but most are probably >50 15:43:36 Only 10 are >50%...https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/docs-release-notes/f11-tx/ 15:44:12 So 1/4, makes it an easier sell I suppose, but is that really what we want? 15:44:24 so every time you update a single translation you are forcing everyone to pull that new RPM even if their language didn't change 15:44:39 We only do that once per release if at all 15:44:46 historically 15:44:50 why? 15:45:08 We should be pushing updates many times... whenever they are ready 15:45:20 Just the way it's been. By the time there are significant new translations, we are mired in the next release 15:45:22 otherwise, lock the translations after the release 15:46:26 Sparks, once we have the new tfx, we should be able to gen new rpms easily, but right now it is still a day's job or better 15:46:33 * stickster thinks it would be a good idea for Sparks and jjmcd (and other interested Doc'ers) to stay tuned into the yum-langpack issue 15:46:53 stickster: not familiar with that issue. 15:47:41 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin 15:48:12 jjmcd: Yeah, I know it is a pain but if the translators are doing the work we should reward that 15:48:26 Sparks, I agree 15:48:31 +1 15:48:44 Apparently Transifex 0.7 is being readied now. 15:48:58 * stickster lost on what question we're trying to answer at this point. 15:50:09 Sparks wants one rpm per language. Actually makes sense for the guides, I'm not convinced on RNs 15:50:27 What's the difference between the Guides and the RN? 15:50:45 The RN's get installed by default 15:50:51 so? 15:50:58 And people expect to find them 15:51:13 So if the Security Guide gets installed by default then that changes things? 15:51:24 What lang are you going to install? 15:51:28 all of them 15:51:54 And what lang will be on the LiveCD. Remember, LiveCD is most folks first exposure to Fedora, and not all of those folks are in the US 15:52:17 jjmcd: I'm not sure the release notes SHOULD be installed by default 15:52:23 you said, last week, that the space difference between pushing all langs as a single package or by separating them into separate packages was neglegiable 15:52:35 I can buy that, but I'm not willing to make that decision unilaterally 15:52:36 jjmcd: All of them 15:52:44 You've installed. And now you want to see what's different. Maybe we should provide a way to *get* relnotes. 15:52:59 25 languages are <10%, and of them, 11 are <5% 15:53:14 That would certainly help out the LiveCD space issues 15:53:28 I think there's a "least astonishment" issue here 15:54:00 rudi, I suspect the most commonly used languages are the most translated, but I don't have data 15:54:23 If people click on something purporting to offer them the release notes in Finnish, and the only extent that it's "in Finnish" are a couple of headings and the rest of the text is in English, I think that's a fail 15:54:42 well of course they are the most commonly used languages... they are the only ones that are provided! :) 15:55:06 rudi: I think that offering a download, and indicating the translation level and a link to help improve it... might be a win 15:55:13 * stickster has to split for another meeting 15:55:36 Could be that I'm somewhat Euro-centric, but I suspect there are more Dutch users than Assamese, for example 15:55:58 stickster, That does sound like a good idea 15:56:36 I'm also assuming that if we have a large user community, we likely have a large translator community, too 15:57:31 Okay... five minutes left... 15:57:45 Did we agree to only ship HTML and no XML? 15:57:57 Sparks, I could see fancying up docs.fp.o to include trans stats, and f-r-n.rpm simply has a menu entry 15:58:11 jjmcd: I'm good with that 15:58:18 jjmcd -- great idea 15:58:43 rudi, is there a clean way to capture trans stats when we make the html? 15:59:05 We want the online stats to reflect the production doc so we can't just link to tfx 15:59:24 In Publican 0.x yes -- really nice actually 15:59:25 I would hate to do that by hand, but we could 15:59:38 But I think the feature was dropped in 1.0 coz no-one was using it :) 15:59:48 cool, OK then, lets assume that;s our jumping off point 15:59:59 :-( 16:00:12 But Transifex gives us statistics right there 16:00:48 Yes, but can I write a script to capture tfx stats into index.php at the time I make index.php 16:01:03 Oh wait 16:01:09 I don't know -- ask glezos :) 16:01:19 One of the utils tells me that, so of course I can script it 16:01:27 Just gotta figure out how 16:02:10 You just reminded me that there is a util somewhere that looks at the po and tells me the % xlated which is exactly what we want 16:02:29 Yeah, one of the gettext utilities 16:02:33 yep 16:02:34 *thinking* 16:02:41 msgfmt? 16:03:48 I'll find it 16:03:59 msgfmt --statistics, I think 16:04:32 Ahhh yes, man says so 16:05:15 Yep -- just confirmed it 16:05:22 So I could take that output and use it to add % trans to index.php 16:06:11 OH I gotta go too 16:06:18 Did we agree to only ship HTML and no XML? 16:06:22 Looks like we have a plan 16:06:25 Yep -- 2AM and bedtime here 16:06:31 No, we are only going to ship a menu item 16:06:43 a menu item? 16:07:01 to point to docs.fp.o? 16:07:02 We'll save LiveCD 20 megs, people will get latest version, and trans stats 16:07:05 Yep 16:07:16 What about those that don't have web access? 16:08:07 Not much in Fedora works without web access these days, anyway. That was bbasically stickster's suggestion so lets talk about that with him, but use this as our current target 16:08:47 Okay.... I'm good with that approach for the LiveCD... I'm thinking about our SIPRNET users and airplane users 16:08:49 I'm thinking the 22Mb will be worth more than the problem with offline 16:09:10 ya 16:09:13 Okay... anything else? 16:09:44 #endmeeting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 13 17:41:20 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 13:41:20 -0400 Subject: Release Notes Meeting 2009-08-13 Summary Message-ID: <1250185280.21019.11.camel@thunder> ======================================== #fedora-meeting-1: Release Notes Meeting ======================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 15:03:13 UTC. The `full logs`_ are available. .. _`full logs`: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html Meeting log ----------- * *LINK*: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-August/msg00072.html (Sparks-15:05:32_) * *ACTION*: jjmcd to follow up with lynx maintainer about homepage (Sparks-15:07:01_) * *ACTION*: jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage (Sparks-15:07:20_) * *LINK*: http://www.mi-nts.org/sl/DocMenu3.png (jjmcd-15:08:18_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to follow up with mhideo about how RHEL handles multiple languages of Publican docs. (Sparks-15:09:51_) * *IDEA*: Install all languages and have Yelp figure out what language to display based on logged in language. (Sparks-15:13:05_) * *IDEA*: Install all html and write a helper app (jjmcd-15:13:26_) * *ACTION*: jjmcd to file a bug against Yelp to fix revision history from a Publican file (Sparks-15:17:38_) * *LINK*: http://quality.kde.org/develop/howto/howtodocs.php <-- indicates KDE uses XML (stickster-15:27:12_) * *LINK*: http://kde.org/getinvolved/documentation/ (stickster-15:28:07_) * *LINK*: http://l10n.kde.org/docs/doc-primer/ (stickster-15:29:07_) * *LINK*: http://l10n.kde.org/docs//markup/index.html (Sparks-15:29:27_) * *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/YumLangpackPlugin (stickster-15:47:41_) .. _Sparks-15:05:32: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-9 .. _Sparks-15:07:01: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-16 .. _Sparks-15:07:20: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-18 .. _jjmcd-15:08:18: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-23 .. _Sparks-15:09:51: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-31 .. _Sparks-15:13:05: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-39 .. _jjmcd-15:13:26: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-40 .. _Sparks-15:17:38: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-60 .. _stickster-15:27:12: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-91 .. _stickster-15:28:07: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-94 .. _stickster-15:29:07: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-96 .. _Sparks-15:29:27: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-99 .. _stickster-15:47:41: fedora-meeting-1.2009-08-13-15.03.log.html#l-166 Meeting ended at 16:09:44 UTC. Action Items ------------ * jjmcd to follow up with lynx maintainer about homepage * jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage * Sparks to follow up with mhideo about how RHEL handles multiple languages of Publican docs. * jjmcd to file a bug against Yelp to fix revision history from a Publican file Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jjmcd * jjmcd to follow up with lynx maintainer about homepage * jjmcd to contact #f-devel-l about deprecating homepage * jjmcd to file a bug against Yelp to fix revision history from a Publican file * Sparks * Sparks to follow up with mhideo about how RHEL handles multiple languages of Publican docs. * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * jjmcd (88) * Sparks (83) * stickster (45) * rudi (24) Generated by `MeetBot`_ .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 18:49:02 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 14:49:02 -0400 Subject: Alpha Announcement In-Reply-To: <1901764E6D534651B39B5A6BC2EAF4FC@Aidan> References: <1250168288.21019.5.camel@thunder> <20090813133929.GE9329@localhost.localdomain> <1901764E6D534651B39B5A6BC2EAF4FC@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090813184902.GF12411@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 01:12:35PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:39 AM > Subject: Re: Alpha Announcement > > >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 08:58:08AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >>> I've taken the Alpha announcement from F10 and morphed it[1] for F12. >>> Please take a look at it and see what you can update. This should be >>> completed by COB tomorrow (Friday). >>> >>> [1] >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Announcement_for_F12_Alpha_Release >> >> Keeping in mind that our previous Alpha releases ("Can we successfully >> compose it?") were somewhat different than the current Alpha ("Should >> be generally testable"), the content of this announcement may need to >> change somewhat. Here's the F11 Beta announcement for comparison: >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Beta_Announcement >> >> Note the new Alpha is something more like previous Beta, and the new >> Beta coming next month is more like previous Preview Release. > > I was thinking the same thing. (Just getting caught up after broken > email). It is probably worth mentioning something like we have always > said rawhide is known to eat babies, with this new strategy we probably > don't know whether alpha will be more or less voracious. The idea should be "less voracious than pre-Alpha Rawhide, or the level of voracity in F11 Alpha." Alpha in Fedora now means essentially the same as industry-wide, in our case "feature-complete and testable." That means that Alpha is publicly testable, not by just an anointed few. Beta should now mean "code-complete and (hopefully) as bug-free as possible." We all know that bugs happen, but Beta should be as close to a final release as humanly possible. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Aug 13 19:46:25 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 15:46:25 -0400 Subject: Alpha Announcement References: <1250168288.21019.5.camel@thunder><20090813133929.GE9329@localhost.localdomain><1901764E6D534651B39B5A6BC2EAF4FC@Aidan> <20090813184902.GF12411@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <7BA24382042F44048B5B9D5A4295C706@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 2:49 PM Subject: Re: Alpha Announcement > On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 01:12:35PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" >> >> To: >> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:39 AM >> Subject: Re: Alpha Announcement >> >> >>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 08:58:08AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >>>> I've taken the Alpha announcement from F10 and morphed it[1] for F12. >>>> Please take a look at it and see what you can update. This should be >>>> completed by COB tomorrow (Friday). >>>> >>>> [1] >>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Announcement_for_F12_Alpha_Release >>> >>> Keeping in mind that our previous Alpha releases ("Can we successfully >>> compose it?") were somewhat different than the current Alpha ("Should >>> be generally testable"), the content of this announcement may need to >>> change somewhat. Here's the F11 Beta announcement for comparison: >>> >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Beta_Announcement >>> >>> Note the new Alpha is something more like previous Beta, and the new >>> Beta coming next month is more like previous Preview Release. >> >> I was thinking the same thing. (Just getting caught up after broken >> email). It is probably worth mentioning something like we have always >> said rawhide is known to eat babies, with this new strategy we probably >> don't know whether alpha will be more or less voracious. > > The idea should be "less voracious than pre-Alpha Rawhide, or the > level of voracity in F11 Alpha." Alpha in Fedora now means > essentially the same as industry-wide, in our case "feature-complete > and testable." That means that Alpha is publicly testable, not by > just an anointed few. Beta should now mean "code-complete and > (hopefully) as bug-free as possible." We all know that bugs happen, > but Beta should be as close to a final release as humanly possible. > Yes, my first thought is that this should be a lot better than previous alphas. But then I thought .... hmmmm, we've never actually done this before, so from that perspective, it's even riskier than before ;-) But I think we probably should speak to this whole idea of trying to make our alpha and beta a little more like the rest of the world. Most people would probably expect this alpha to be like the previous ones, and it really isn't. Whether that would make it more attractive or not, well, it would make it more attractive to ME, but sometimes I'm surprised at how people view some things. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 13 22:09:22 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 13 Aug 2009 18:09:22 -0400 Subject: Alpha Announcement In-Reply-To: <7BA24382042F44048B5B9D5A4295C706@Aidan> References: <1250168288.21019.5.camel@thunder> <20090813133929.GE9329@localhost.localdomain> <1901764E6D534651B39B5A6BC2EAF4FC@Aidan> <20090813184902.GF12411@localhost.localdomain> <7BA24382042F44048B5B9D5A4295C706@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090813220922.GL12411@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 03:46:25PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 2:49 PM > Subject: Re: Alpha Announcement > > >> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 01:12:35PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" >>> >>> To: >>> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2009 9:39 AM >>> Subject: Re: Alpha Announcement >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 08:58:08AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >>>>> I've taken the Alpha announcement from F10 and morphed it[1] for F12. >>>>> Please take a look at it and see what you can update. This should be >>>>> completed by COB tomorrow (Friday). >>>>> >>>>> [1] >>>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Announcement_for_F12_Alpha_Release >>>> >>>> Keeping in mind that our previous Alpha releases ("Can we successfully >>>> compose it?") were somewhat different than the current Alpha ("Should >>>> be generally testable"), the content of this announcement may need to >>>> change somewhat. Here's the F11 Beta announcement for comparison: >>>> >>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Beta_Announcement >>>> >>>> Note the new Alpha is something more like previous Beta, and the new >>>> Beta coming next month is more like previous Preview Release. >>> >>> I was thinking the same thing. (Just getting caught up after broken >>> email). It is probably worth mentioning something like we have always >>> said rawhide is known to eat babies, with this new strategy we probably >>> don't know whether alpha will be more or less voracious. >> >> The idea should be "less voracious than pre-Alpha Rawhide, or the >> level of voracity in F11 Alpha." Alpha in Fedora now means >> essentially the same as industry-wide, in our case "feature-complete >> and testable." That means that Alpha is publicly testable, not by >> just an anointed few. Beta should now mean "code-complete and >> (hopefully) as bug-free as possible." We all know that bugs happen, >> but Beta should be as close to a final release as humanly possible. >> > > Yes, my first thought is that this should be a lot better than previous > alphas. > > But then I thought .... hmmmm, we've never actually done this before, so > from that perspective, it's even riskier than before ;-) It's that, too! Excellent insight, John. :-) > But I think we probably should speak to this whole idea of trying to make > our alpha and beta a little more like the rest of the world. Most people > would probably expect this alpha to be like the previous ones, and it > really isn't. Whether that would make it more attractive or not, well, > it would make it more attractive to ME, but sometimes I'm surprised at > how people view some things. James Laska (jlaska) and Jesse Keating (Oxf13) can probably speak to this more eloquently than I. But I think you're right that we should have a short explanation about this in the announcement. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 09:42:15 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:12:15 +0530 Subject: DocBook Editor Update In-Reply-To: <1250169414.21019.6.camel@thunder> References: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> <1250169414.21019.6.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <146c63b10908140242u6f5447d0q61049c0c23b4db73@mail.gmail.com> > Satya, > Is the FAS login secured by SSL? > > --Eric No, it isn't. As publictest does not have SSL, Toshio helped me by changing the server being pointed to on publictest1 by editing /var/www/html/beacon/php/auth.php. To test Beacon now, one needs to create an account on http://publictest3.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ and then use that test account to log into beacon on publictest1. Regards, Satya From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 09:43:50 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:13:50 +0530 Subject: DocBook Editor Update In-Reply-To: <20090813132754.GD9329@localhost.localdomain> References: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> <20090813132754.GD9329@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <146c63b10908140243q3552acd3h286caa9a0a7ea411@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > A usability note -- adding a new node is difficult in the left editor > pane. ?The *concept* of adding a node is going to be foreign to the > people who might otherwise use this editor. ?I would expect that if I > am in the left editor pane, and I move to the end of an existing node > and hit "Enter," a new node would be inserted of an appropriate kind, > probably based on the context but falling back to some sane default > like a . > I agree it is indeed more work to go to a list and choose a node than pressing "enter" but it is difficult to predict what the user wants the next section to be. Adding a fallback default is good idea but it will take more effort from the user to remove the default and choose a new one if our guess was wrong. At every point there is a list of possible nodes that can be added. The accordion on the right populates the list with only those options which are valid at that point. I am not sure how we can make it simpler and still keep it clean. Regards, Satya From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Fri Aug 14 09:50:33 2009 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (sankarshan) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 15:20:33 +0530 Subject: DocBook Editor Update In-Reply-To: <146c63b10908140243q3552acd3h286caa9a0a7ea411@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> <20090813132754.GD9329@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10908140243q3552acd3h286caa9a0a7ea411@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35586fc00908140250u97857e9p9b636c4c7b630fbb@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:13 PM, satya komaragiri wrote: > I agree it is indeed more work to go to a list and choose a node than > pressing "enter" but it is difficult to predict what the user wants > the next section to be. Adding a fallback default is good idea but it > will take more effort from the user to remove the default and choose a > new one if our guess was wrong. At every point there is a list of > possible nodes that can be added. The accordion on the right populates > the list with only those options which are valid at that point. I am > not sure how we can make it simpler and still keep it clean. I guess we are slowly reaching the stage where having a trac instance to keep track of defects and, feature requests comes in handy. -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work From girish.hb at hotmail.com Fri Aug 14 16:01:58 2009 From: girish.hb at hotmail.com (girish.hb at hotmail.com) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 09:01:58 -0700 Subject: Vacation reply In-Reply-To: <20090814160152.B38D98E0128@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From rfontana at redhat.com Fri Aug 14 17:05:13 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:05:13 -0400 Subject: CC-BY-SA and moral rights provision Message-ID: <20090814130513.0e94a180@calliope> Hi, Sorry to reopen an issue that was supposed to be resolved. When we were discussing whether to go with CC-BY-SA unported or CC-BY-SA US, there was an issue I had overlooked. The unported version of CC-BY-SA 3.0 has a provision, 4d, concerning 'moral rights' that has been the subject of some controversy in the CC community: Except as otherwise agreed in writing by the Licensor or as may be otherwise permitted by applicable law, if You Reproduce, Distribute or Publicly Perform the Work either by itself or as part of any Adaptations or Collections, You must not distort, mutilate, modify or take other derogatory action in relation to the Work which would be prejudicial to the Original Author's honor or reputation. Quick background: many copyright law regimes recognize something called 'moral rights' of authors that are distinct from the 'economic rights' we ordinarily associate with copyright. These are generally unassignable rights (you can't sell them) and in some countries you can't waive them. In the US, oversimplifying a bit, moral rights are generally assumed not to exist for most kinds of copyrightable works other than visual works, but moral rights are important in many other countries, particularly in Europe. I believe the intent of CC-BY-SA 3.0 unported 4d was just to say that, for copyright regimes that recognize moral rights, CC-BY-SA does not affect them in any way. Larry Lessig pointed this out in a blog posting which currently eludes me. However, there is an argument that the provision, as worded, suggests that even where the copyright law regime does not recognize moral rights, the license is effectively importing them in. This provision was, FWIU, not in earlier unported versions of CC-BY-SA, and it is not in the US version of CC-BY-SA 3.0. I understand that there is some effort to clarify this provision in future revisions of CC-BY-SA. Note that moral rights (which in many countries that recognize them apply to software as well as to other kinds of works) are at tension with the FOSS norms that are the heart of Fedora legal policies and which encourage modification even if it might be 'prejudicial' to the author. Most FOSS licenses (which admittedly tend to be drafted by Americans) tend to assume they don't exist. Fedora documentation, though written by many authors, many of whom are unaffiliated with Red Hat, is technically being licensed out downstream by Red Hat, the licensee named in the Fedora CLA. I would assume that 4d would not apply to the extent that applicable underlying law is US law. However, I suppose there is some doubt about this. In the US any moral rights (or similar rights that might be captured by 4d) that do exist are almost certain to be waivable, though there may be some doubt about that too. Anyway, I would not want Red Hat, as licensor of Fedora documentation, to stand behind 4d, as a matter of principle, even if it has no actual applicability. One solution would be to go with CC-BY-SA 3.O US, which omits the moral rights provision entirely. Alternatively, however, we could continue with using CC-BY-SA 3.0 unported and revise the Publican licensing notice to say the following: Copyright ? 2009 Red Hat, Inc. and others. This document is licensed by Red Hat under a Creative Commons Attribution?Share Alike 3.0 Unported license ("CC-BY-SA"). An explanation of this license is available at http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/. The original authors of this document, and Red Hat, designate the Fedora Project as the "Attribution Party" for purposes of CC-BY-SA. In accordance with CC-BY-SA, if you distribute this document or an adaptation of it, you must provide the URL for the original version. Red Hat, as the licensor of this document, waives and agrees not to assert the right to enforce Section 4d of CC-BY-SA to the fullest extent permitted by applicable law. That extra language doesn't actually extinguish any moral rights claims that Fedora contributors might have, for better or worse; I think it just has the effect of making clear that the CC license won't be used by Red Hat as a separate mechanism to enforce such moral rights. - Richard From tcallawa at redhat.com Fri Aug 14 17:13:33 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:13:33 -0400 Subject: CC-BY-SA and moral rights provision In-Reply-To: <20090814130513.0e94a180@calliope> References: <20090814130513.0e94a180@calliope> Message-ID: <4A859B3D.2040202@redhat.com> On 08/14/2009 01:05 PM, Richard Fontana wrote: > Alternatively, however, we > could continue with using CC-BY-SA 3.0 unported and revise the Publican > licensing notice to say the following: > > Copyright ? 2009 Red Hat, Inc. and others. > > This document is licensed by Red Hat under a Creative Commons > Attribution?Share Alike 3.0 Unported license ("CC-BY-SA"). An > explanation of this license is available at > http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/. The original authors > of this document, and Red Hat, designate the Fedora Project as the > "Attribution Party" for purposes of CC-BY-SA. In accordance with > CC-BY-SA, if you distribute this document or an adaptation of it, you > must provide the URL for the original version. > > Red Hat, as the licensor of this document, waives and agrees not to > assert the right to enforce Section 4d of CC-BY-SA to the fullest > extent permitted by applicable law. > > > That extra language doesn't actually extinguish any moral rights claims > that Fedora contributors might have, for better or worse; I think it > just has the effect of making clear that the CC license won't be used > by Red Hat as a separate mechanism to enforce such moral rights. FWIW, I prefer this alternative to using the ported version. ~spot From rfontana at redhat.com Fri Aug 14 17:22:18 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:22:18 -0400 Subject: CC-BY-SA and moral rights provision In-Reply-To: <20090814130513.0e94a180@calliope> References: <20090814130513.0e94a180@calliope> Message-ID: <20090814132218.6574ab5a@calliope> On Fri, 14 Aug 2009 13:05:13 -0400 Richard Fontana wrote: > Red Hat, as the licensor of this document, waives and agrees not to > assert the right to enforce Section 4d of CC-BY-SA to the fullest > extent permitted by applicable law. Hmm, possibly that should be: Red Hat, as the licensor of this document, waives the right to enforce, and agrees not to assert, Section 4d of CC-BY-SA to the fullest extent permitted by applicable law. - RF From steven.moix at axianet.ch Sat Aug 15 10:02:48 2009 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Sat, 15 Aug 2009 12:02:48 +0200 Subject: Fedora 12 release announcement Message-ID: <4A8687C8.3020605@axianet.ch> Hello all, Sorry not to continue the old thread about the F12 alpha announcement [1], but I'm new to this list, so I couldn't reply ;) As Paul suggested, I made a complete release announcement based on a template we used in the marketing group for F11. The release announcement is located on [2]. If you don't mind, I'd like you to use this "flat" URL instead of [3]...an inclusion in the F12 Alpha release notes also needs to be corrected. The content of the page should be pretty final, but I'd like you to have a look at it to add/remove features...I simply chose the ones I found interesting for *me*. Also please correct my English if you don't mind. 1: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-August/msg00100.html 2: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_Announcement 3: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/Announcement_for_F12_Alpha_Release Have a nice day Steven (Fedora Marketing) From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun Aug 16 21:38:25 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 03:08:25 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 Alpha release notes: TODO Message-ID: <4A887C51.4070203@fedoraproject.org> Hi, I see a lot of discussions/meetings etc but not not enough people editing the release notes to generate actual content. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes If you want to help, the following things would be good to add: * Screenshot of NM broadband wizard * Replace the GNOME Volume screenshot with one taken with the default Fedora GNOME theme * Attach the Ogg Video of Plymouth bootup to the relevant section * Expand the PackageKit section with more details. Take a Ogg Theora Video of PackageKit command line plugin in action. * Add details on Empathy - protocols, feature esp in comparison to Pidgin and missing features that are planned to be filled in before the general release. Would help set expectations. Rahul From loupgaroublond at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 12:36:22 2009 From: loupgaroublond at gmail.com (Yaakov Nemoy) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 14:36:22 +0200 Subject: DocBook Editor Update In-Reply-To: <35586fc00908140250u97857e9p9b636c4c7b630fbb@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> <20090813132754.GD9329@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10908140243q3552acd3h286caa9a0a7ea411@mail.gmail.com> <35586fc00908140250u97857e9p9b636c4c7b630fbb@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <7f692fec0908170536y700a2986t32ff78b889899834@mail.gmail.com> 2009/8/14 sankarshan : > On Fri, Aug 14, 2009 at 3:13 PM, satya > komaragiri wrote: > >> I agree it is indeed more work to go to a list and choose a node than >> pressing "enter" but it is difficult to predict what the user wants >> the next section to be. Adding a fallback default is good idea but it >> will take more effort from the user to remove the default and choose a >> new one if our guess was wrong. At every point there is a list of >> possible nodes that can be added. The accordion on the right populates >> the list with only those options which are valid at that point. I am >> not sure how we can make it simpler and still keep it clean. > > I guess we are slowly reaching the stage where having a trac instance > to keep track of defects and, feature requests comes in handy. Do you mean the upstream trac instance? http://beacon.kix.in/ -Yaakov From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 13:53:03 2009 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (sankarshan) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:23:03 +0530 Subject: DocBook Editor Update In-Reply-To: <7f692fec0908170536y700a2986t32ff78b889899834@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> <20090813132754.GD9329@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10908140243q3552acd3h286caa9a0a7ea411@mail.gmail.com> <35586fc00908140250u97857e9p9b636c4c7b630fbb@mail.gmail.com> <7f692fec0908170536y700a2986t32ff78b889899834@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35586fc00908170653sf98515ai1aa5ab272d522092@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Yaakov Nemoy wrote: > Do you mean the upstream trac instance? > > http://beacon.kix.in/ :) Thanks for pointing that out. As long as there is a structured method to keep track of feature requests/bugs, it should serve this deployment/integration well. -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work From n9986.mali at gmail.com Mon Aug 17 14:08:21 2009 From: n9986.mali at gmail.com (Nandeep Mali) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 19:38:21 +0530 Subject: DocBook Editor Update In-Reply-To: <35586fc00908170653sf98515ai1aa5ab272d522092@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10908130614h11e77dcdube9059bd4c5c8200@mail.gmail.com> <20090813132754.GD9329@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10908140243q3552acd3h286caa9a0a7ea411@mail.gmail.com> <35586fc00908140250u97857e9p9b636c4c7b630fbb@mail.gmail.com> <7f692fec0908170536y700a2986t32ff78b889899834@mail.gmail.com> <35586fc00908170653sf98515ai1aa5ab272d522092@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 7:23 PM, sankarshan wrote: > On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 6:06 PM, Yaakov Nemoy wrote: > >> Do you mean the upstream trac instance? >> >> http://beacon.kix.in/ > > :) Thanks for pointing that out. As long as there is a structured > method to keep track of feature requests/bugs, it should serve this > deployment/integration well. I suggest not using that for now as its become home of spam and rarely used by anyone. We'll move beacon to its own homepage by next week (possibly beaconeditor.org). If until then it can be tracked manually on a wiki page it would be nice. Just a bit more time. Thanks and Regards Nandeep From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Aug 17 14:30:13 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 10:30:13 -0400 Subject: [Bug 515190] Segmentation fault while executing smbclient command in Fedora 9 32 Bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908171430.n7HEUDk0015692@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=515190 Ales Zelinka changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |azelinka at redhat.com Blocks| |516996 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Aug 17 16:29:54 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2009 12:29:54 -0400 Subject: [Bug 515190] Segmentation fault while executing smbclient command in Fedora 9 32 Bit In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908171629.n7HGTs7d017460@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=515190 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From stickster at gmail.com Wed Aug 19 13:31:26 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 09:31:26 -0400 Subject: Alpha announcement checked In-Reply-To: <4A8B987C.1090109@redhat.com> References: <4A8B987C.1090109@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090819133126.GE4942@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 02:15:24AM -0400, Mel Chua wrote: > I checked and updated version numbers (for instance, GNOME 2.27.90 beta > is the latest GNOME because GNOME 2.28 isn't yet out) and tried to make > the wording flow a little nicer. > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_Announcement > > Steven, it's all yours. https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/16 I did just a smidge more fine tuning this morning. I'm going to cc the Docs team so they know this has been worked on. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From steven.moix at axianet.ch Wed Aug 19 16:16:54 2009 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 18:16:54 +0200 Subject: Alpha announcement checked In-Reply-To: <20090819133126.GE4942@localhost.localdomain> References: <4A8B987C.1090109@redhat.com> <20090819133126.GE4942@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A8C2576.6000702@axianet.ch> Hi, Thanks for your edits. I'll send it to the NDN 2 days before the actual release. Steven On 08/19/2009 03:31 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 02:15:24AM -0400, Mel Chua wrote: >> I checked and updated version numbers (for instance, GNOME 2.27.90 beta >> is the latest GNOME because GNOME 2.28 isn't yet out) and tried to make >> the wording flow a little nicer. >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_Announcement >> >> Steven, it's all yours. https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/16 > > I did just a smidge more fine tuning this morning. I'm going to cc > the Docs team so they know this has been worked on. > From pchestek at redhat.com Wed Aug 19 17:53:24 2009 From: pchestek at redhat.com (Pamela Chestek) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:53:24 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Fw: License Change... Publican] Message-ID: <4A8C3C14.9000108@redhat.com> Sorry I didn't respond to this sooner. As Richard suggests, we should make sure that the copyright license doesn't inadvertently extend to permit the use of the trademarks. My suggestion would be something like: The text and illustrations of this document are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license. FEDORA and the Fedora Infinity Design logo are trademarks of Red Hat, Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. For guidelines on the permitted uses of the Fedora trademarks go to [link]. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. I also point out that the current notice on the Fedora documentation says "All other trademarks /and copyrights/ referred to are the property of their respective owners." To me, mentioning that there might be other copyright owners in the notice only creates questions, because it might cause a downstream user to wonder whether the CC license applies to the entire work. Assuming we don't have anything that can't be licensed CC-BY-SA, then we should eliminate the confusion (and if we do have stuff that can't be licensed that way, then we have bigger problems). Pamela S. Chestek Senior IP Attorney Red Hat, Inc. 1801 Varsity Drive Raleigh, NC 27606 919-754-4473 pchestek at redhat.com Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:55:55 -0400 From: Richard Fontana To: For participants of the Documentation Project Subject: Re: License Change... Publican On Mon, 3 Aug 2009 12:28:13 -0400 Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 12:24, Paul W. Frields > wrote: > > On Mon, Aug 03, 2009 at 12:15:57PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> So we need to be able to display the information found on the CC > >> Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States page[1]. Does anyone > >> have any recommendations on how this is displayed? > >> > >> [1] http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ > > > > Display where? You mean in documents that have been built? > > Wouldn't that just be a change in the publican-fedora package to > > the /usr/share/publican/Common_Content/fedora/*/Legal_Notice.xml > > files? > > Yes, which is what I'm talking about. We need to change that text. > Do we want to include the CC graphic there as well? > > >From an existing doc: > This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and > conditions set forth in the Open Publication License, V1.0 > > to: > This material may only be distributed subject to the terms and > conditions set forth in the Creative Commons BY-SA, v3.0, license. I would recommend changing the text further than that. That language is taken directly from the OPL: Proper form for an incorporation by reference is as follows: Copyright (c) by . This material may be distributed only subject to the terms and conditions set forth in the Open Publication License, vX.Y or later (the latest version is presently available at http://www.opencontent.org/openpub/). My recommendation: This document is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 Unported license. That can probably be improved on. Also, you may wish to specify how you want attribution to be given. As a separate note, but raised in my mind because of this license change, perhaps the subsequent reference to Fedora trademarks in this Publican legal boilerplate should be accompanied by a pointer to the Fedora trademark guidelines (to clarify that the stylized Fedora mark and the Fedora infinity logo aren't themselves being licensed under CC-BY-SA). - RF -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From rfontana at redhat.com Wed Aug 19 19:30:52 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 15:30:52 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Fw: License Change... Publican] In-Reply-To: <4A8C3C14.9000108@redhat.com> References: <4A8C3C14.9000108@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090819153052.2c458979@calliope> On Wed, 19 Aug 2009 13:53:24 -0400 Pamela Chestek wrote: > I also point out that the current notice on the Fedora documentation > says "All other trademarks /and copyrights/ referred to are the > property of their respective owners." To me, mentioning that there > might be other copyright owners in the notice only creates questions, > because it might cause a downstream user to wonder whether the CC > license applies to the entire work. Assuming we don't have anything > that can't be licensed CC-BY-SA, then we should eliminate the > confusion (and if we do have stuff that can't be licensed that way, > then we have bigger problems). Eek, I hadn't noticed that before. I see that in at least some of the documentation at docs.fp.o (installation guide, security guide). That's indeed undesirable for the reasons Pam mentions. In Ruediger's sample document containing the new notices,[1] the trademark sentence correctly does not add "and copyrights". [1]http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ - RF From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 20 01:01:29 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:01:29 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-08-20 IRC log Message-ID: <1250730089.3293.0.camel@thunder> 00:02:48 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:02:53 #topic Roll Call 00:02:54 * Sparks 00:03:29 * rudi is here 00:03:40 * ianweller 00:04:16 * quaid too 00:06:32 hail hail etc. 00:06:42 * Sparks waits a few more seconds for folks 00:07:05 #topic Last week's action items 00:07:11 Okay... this should be interesting... 00:07:53 Sparks to follow up with Pascal Calarco from News to make sure we are including all packages necessary for Zikula for them. -- Second Alarm 00:08:16 Okay, I sent a message to the News folks and didn't really hear anything back from them, IIRC. 00:08:32 I think they'll be set with what we're planning. 00:08:51 rudi to help sparks on changing the fedora-brand in Publican for CC license -- Second Alarm 00:09:03 I agree, Marketing is finding it sufficient with similar needs, I reckon. 00:09:10 rudi: That is pretty much ready to go, correctly? 00:09:24 errr... correct? 00:09:28 * quaid rubs his hands gleefully 00:09:34 Sparks -- yes. I have a draft that legal is happy with 00:09:50 rudi: Excellent. Let's push forward with that, then. 00:10:10 Sparks to package the three GPL editors for Zikula -- Second Alarm 00:10:18 Okay, I haven't had a chance to even think about that. 00:10:29 Can someone pick this task up for me? 00:11:20 We don't actually need all three packaged but it would be nice as a long term goal. We do need one of them packaged, though. 00:12:25 #action Sparks to send an email to the list to pass this task on. 00:12:40 #action Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide 00:12:55 Sparks -- I have some news there 00:13:02 rudi: Go ahead 00:13:33 I have approval from Red Hat legal to share the bulk of our external Style Guide 00:13:57 * itbegins is here now 00:14:06 rudi: srsly? 00:14:21 Very cool 00:14:23 So I have agreed to put together a subset of it for review; after that, we can share it. 00:14:29 rudi++ 00:15:09 rudi: am I correct that this is the RHT internal style guide/"word usage" document? 00:15:20 Yes -- those documents 00:15:31 * quaid faints with happiness 00:15:42 * Sparks fans quaid 00:16:12 rudi: Any idea when this might be available? 00:16:24 There is material there that represents internal Red Hat legal advice and brand considerations that we will not be able to share -- but for the most part, that stuff is irrelevant to anyone else who wants to use it. 00:16:48 Sparks -- at the moment, I'm bogged down in the preparations for RHEL5.4, which is why I've been quiet on the Fedora front for the last few weeks 00:16:55 * quaid sorry for the drama, it's just good stuff and a nice leg up for everyone 00:17:08 I expect to have a draft together for legal to review within the next 2 weeks or so 00:17:29 rudi: feel free to draw on me in any way, such as helping pre-review before legal, etc. 00:17:38 quaid -- thanks 00:17:43 aye, thank you 00:18:15 rudi: That's cool. 00:18:24 rudi: BTW, when is 5.4 going to hit the streets? 00:18:40 I'd have to check to see what the public is supposed to know :) 00:19:11 Gees... 00:19:19 I have many servers that are aching to upgrade 00:19:20 :) 00:19:24 Wikipedia doesn't know ;) 00:19:28 Okay, moving on... 00:19:46 #action Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Third alarm 00:20:06 #action Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --third alarm 00:20:18 ianweller to do something useful and write a draft announcement 00:20:19 DONE 00:20:30 jjmcd to do recon on Zikula for useful docs 00:20:33 DONE and found none 00:20:36 Sparks: I find Wikipedia makes good guesses there :) 00:21:02 I think this is all the old business. Does anyone have anything else that is old business/tasks? 00:21:10 whoops, withdrawn :) 00:21:42 quaid: Ya... we were just talking about that today. 00:21:47 Okay, moving on 00:21:52 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq 00:22:04 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:22:13 I don't think ke4qqq is here tonight... 00:22:27 Does anyone have an update on Zikula? 00:22:33 The instance for marketing is moving along fast 00:22:39 but that will pass by the blockers for docs 00:22:56 on the plus side, puppetization etc will be partly done for docs purposes by marketing 00:23:02 +1 00:23:06 The same with performance checks etc 00:23:22 That's good. 00:23:45 So, IMHO if we can get the last few modules packaged, a roll out for immediately following the F12 change freeze is perfectly achievable 00:24:03 itbegins: Can you provide a delta of what we need versus what we have, package wise, to stand up the docs instance? 00:24:33 * quaid calls for a wiki page to be created! 00:24:50 packaging side, we need one of mediashare or mediaattach packaged 00:24:54 otherwise you have no media manager 00:25:05 * Sparks points quaid to the link at the top of this topic discussion 00:25:21 and preferably one editor - unless you like hard coding HTML 00:25:32 and of course we need the theme packaged 00:25:45 With those three, I think you are ready to go 00:25:52 * Sparks thinks the theme is packaged and ready 00:25:58 and over time we can upgrade the instance with more features as they come online 00:26:11 Sparks: yes, but I wouldn't call the files currently in git production ready 00:26:24 I made that theme using File>Save as in Firefox, and a quick n dirty conversion 00:26:27 heh 00:26:36 there will be all sorts of useful images and possibly css missing from that 00:26:53 the correct way to do it would be to convert based on the files currently in the websites git repository 00:26:54 itbegins: I think we showed it to mizmo though, I'll make sure she's on the bz for that package review 00:27:19 ... and anyone know that bz # for the theme? 00:27:26 If Mizmo approves, then I defer to her - she's also runnign point for the marketing team on design issues 00:28:05 Content and Mediashare are blocking on the window library 00:28:30 it just so happens I've had experience with the replacement suggested by stickster_afk in the last couple of weeks at work, so I could in theory make those changes for you 00:28:51 But it will take me some time to get up to speed with the modules and figure out the needed changes 00:29:19 Equally there may already be someone working on making that very change 00:30:29 * Sparks is back 00:30:36 Sorry, storm and power outage 00:30:49 Are we done with the CMS discussion? 00:31:10 I'm updating the modules list a bit from this discussion 00:31:14 #chair quaid 00:31:22 quaid: Excellent, thank you. 00:31:44 #task need to resolve theme package, review, and Design Team help; borrow from FI work? 00:32:01 Sparks: http://www.fpaste.org/CJke/ 00:32:17 Log from when you last typed 00:32:49 itbegins: Thanks! 00:33:02 Anyway, if we're agreed we're going to miss Fedora 12 for the docs instance, then there is much less pressure on timescales for the CMS project 00:33:29 quaid: Can you talk to mizmo tomorrow and make sure she's on the same pages as us? 00:33:37 Sparks: got it 00:33:42 itbegins: Agreed. 00:33:47 quaid: Cool, thanks. 00:34:03 #action quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme 00:34:34 Anything else on the CMS/Zikula? 00:35:08 #topic Status on CC license rollout.\ 00:35:19 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:35:51 rudi: So we now have a happy version of the license page for Publican, correct? 00:36:05 Sparks -- correct 00:36:18 rudi: I'm assuming you are updating this in Publican 1.0... can you patch the 0.44 version as well? 00:36:35 are we subject to Infrastructure freeze for this change? 00:36:41 i.e. wiki, websites, etc. 00:36:50 maybe 00:36:56 Sparks -- I'm not sure -- I will have to check with Jeff (who is on leave at the moment) 00:37:05 ianweller: What's the procedure for updating the license of the wiki? 00:37:15 rudi: Okay, that's cool. 00:37:22 we stuff some variables in LocalSettings.php 00:37:25 which is in puppet, in our case 00:37:34 I suspect that it may just end up in the "unofficial" patch that I maintain on my Fedorapeople page 00:37:35 and then it adds the cute little button to the bottom automatically i believe 00:37:43 #action rudi to follow up with Jeff about changing the license information in Publican 0.44 and 1.0 00:37:50 ianweller -- what button? 00:38:06 uh oh 00:38:08 :) 00:38:14 is there a chance that a current version of Fedora won't have Publican 1.0? 00:38:22 rudi: the cc icon 00:38:27 http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-sa/3.0/88x31.png 00:38:28 that thing 00:38:30 ianweller -- we can't use the icon 00:38:36 +1 to button website 00:38:40 *thud* 00:38:42 not for publican 00:38:46 rudi: I'd prefer that the license information go into the official release but I know you know that. 00:38:48 well we can for the wiki 00:38:52 We can't use it for the wiki 00:38:55 why not 00:39:03 rudi: I understood Richard to be talking about the legal notice for Publican 00:39:04 sure we can't redistribute it but we're not 00:39:10 we're just hotlinking it 00:39:15 right because of the redistrib. 00:39:19 quaid -- if you read his emails, he talks about both 00:39:34 ianweller -- yes, but it's an unfree element appearing on a Fedora page 00:39:43 Therefore, we can't use it. 00:39:48 I have a problem with his interpretation of not using it on the wiki... 00:39:58 augghhghhggghsdoagosrgjwjgoajldfjksfakgherjkojar <-- what is going through my mind right now 00:39:59 um 00:40:01 the Fedora logo is an unfree element and yet we use it on the webpages 00:40:06 that's correct! 00:40:07 so is ServerBeach's logo 00:40:12 fedora logo is non-redistributable 00:40:15 Sparks -- yes, but it's an unfree element that we own 00:40:16 and Dell's 00:40:23 we don't own the dell logo 00:40:34 http://fedoraproject.org/sponsors 00:40:35 and we are using the CC logo per its terms of use 00:40:52 ok, I'll re-read richard's email, and then we'll ask him for clarification. 00:41:15 * Sparks finds it increadibly ironic that the very symbol of freedom is an unfree element. 00:41:25 well, it's a trademark, in't? 00:41:32 yeah 00:41:34 Fedora is for freedom, but our logo sure ain't free 00:41:42 exactly 00:43:19 #action quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. 00:43:42 ianweller: So is the infrastructure freeze going to affect the license change? 00:43:52 yyyyyyyyyno it should be minor 00:43:53 ricky: ping ^^ 00:44:00 ianweller: pong 00:44:27 Ugh, are we going to run into pain for our sponsors page? 00:44:29 ricky: if i send a patch to the infra list saying "here's what i'm doing to change the license on the wiki" and it gets 2 +1s then it's ok during a freeze right? 00:44:37 ricky: well that wasn't why i pinged you but possibly :( 00:44:52 Yup as long as it's low risk and doesn't have a high chance of breaking anything else :-) 00:45:00 So more than likely, yes :-) 00:45:22 yeh it prolly won't! 00:46:24 okay... 00:46:31 anything else about the license change? 00:47:11 It might be worth checking with Richard Fontana about the logos on the sponsors page 00:47:32 quaid: Can you tack that onto your discussion? 00:47:38 rudi: "These are not the droids you are looking for." 00:47:43 Sparks: "These are not the droids you are looking for." 00:47:58 quaid: huh? 00:47:59 "Move along" 00:48:06 roger 00:48:20 #topic Draft Documentation on the wiki 00:48:29 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Draft_Documentation 00:48:43 For anyone looking for something more to do... ^^^ 00:48:53 get out your machete 00:49:26 Yeah... we probably need to go through that and see what's stale 00:49:48 Anything else on this? 00:49:56 Hint: if it's in Archive:, it's stale 00:50:10 do we want to do something about it for real? 00:50:15 sure 00:50:24 i.e., do an online sprint some time? 00:50:34 do we have any "lulls" in the F12 storm? 00:50:48 Not especially 00:50:50 :) 00:51:18 I think a lot of what I'm seeing in the Archive: can be deleted/removed. 00:51:39 It appears that it has been incorporated into a DocBook guide 00:52:10 OK, maybe a post-F12 fun activity 00:52:18 we'll all buy our own beer, etc. 00:52:31 ianweller: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Delete 00:52:51 ianweller: What happened to the delete policy? There are 97 pages ready to be blasted! 00:52:51 yay more work 00:52:58 Sparks: i don't do anything about it until someone mentions it 00:52:59 ^_^ 00:53:19 so i'll do something about it 00:53:42 ianweller: I know you have a big red button over there that nukes all those pages 00:53:57 no but ricky does, it's called "nuke db2" 00:54:02 ;) 00:54:15 Yikes 00:54:32 yeah i'll go thruogh those tonight just for you 00:54:36 * ianweller stops holding up the meeting 00:54:45 Okay, so that should clear up some items... :) 00:54:50 Anything else? 00:55:27 #topic Guide needs? 00:55:37 Anyone have a guide that is in need? 00:56:09 #topic New Guides 00:56:16 Okay, I have one... 00:56:51 I've Publicanized (apparently not the first person to do this) the old Accessibility information that used to go out with the RNs. 00:57:17 It is on fh.org and I'm going to start updating it as I get time. 00:57:42 Feel free to check it out and provide patches! :) 00:57:54 Does anyone else have a new guide? 00:58:48 #topic All other business 00:58:55 Okay, does anyone have anything else? 00:59:35 Anyone? 00:59:37 Anything? 00:59:54 *silence* 01:00:18 Good timing 01:00:29 Okay... thanks everyone for coming tonight! Don't forget to tip your wait staff. 01:00:33 #endmeeting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 20 01:02:37 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:02:37 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-08-20 Summary Message-ID: <1250730157.3293.1.camel@thunder> =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:02:48 UTC. The `full logs`_ are available. .. _`full logs`: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html Meeting log ----------- * **Roll Call** (Sparks-00:02:53_) * **Last week's action items** (Sparks-00:07:05_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to send an email to the list to pass this task on. (Sparks-00:12:25_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide (Sparks-00:12:40_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Third alarm (Sparks-00:19:46_) * *ACTION*: Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --third alarm (Sparks-00:20:06_) * **Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq** (Sparks-00:21:52_) * *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks-00:22:04_) * *ACTION*: quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme (Sparks-00:34:03_) * **Status on CC license rollout.\** (Sparks-00:35:08_) * *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule (Sparks-00:35:19_) * *ACTION*: rudi to follow up with Jeff about changing the license information in Publican 0.44 and 1.0 (Sparks-00:37:43_) * *LINK*: http://i.creativecommons.org/l/by-sa/3.0/88x31.png (ianweller-00:38:27_) * *LINK*: http://fedoraproject.org/sponsors (quaid-00:40:34_) * *ACTION*: quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. (Sparks-00:43:19_) * **Draft Documentation on the wiki** (Sparks-00:48:20_) * *LINK*: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Draft_Documentation (Sparks-00:48:29_) * **Guide needs?** (Sparks-00:55:27_) * **New Guides** (Sparks-00:56:09_) * **All other business** (Sparks-00:58:48_) .. _Sparks-00:02:53: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-2 .. _Sparks-00:07:05: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-9 .. _Sparks-00:12:25: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-25 .. _Sparks-00:12:40: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-26 .. _Sparks-00:19:46: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-55 .. _Sparks-00:20:06: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-56 .. _Sparks-00:21:52: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-66 .. _Sparks-00:22:04: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-67 .. _Sparks-00:34:03: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-114 .. _Sparks-00:35:08: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-116 .. _Sparks-00:35:19: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-117 .. _Sparks-00:37:43: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-131 .. _ianweller-00:38:27: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-137 .. _quaid-00:40:34: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-164 .. _Sparks-00:43:19: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-172 .. _Sparks-00:48:20: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-192 .. _Sparks-00:48:29: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-193 .. _Sparks-00:55:27: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-223 .. _Sparks-00:56:09: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-225 .. _Sparks-00:58:48: fedora-meeting.2009-08-20-00.02.log.html#l-231 Meeting ended at 01:00:33 UTC. Action Items ------------ * Sparks to send an email to the list to pass this task on. * Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide * Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Third alarm * Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --third alarm * quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme * rudi to follow up with Jeff about changing the license information in Publican 0.44 and 1.0 * quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. Action Items, by person ----------------------- * quaid * quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme * quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. * rudi * rudi to follow up with Jeff about changing the license information in Publican 0.44 and 1.0 * Sparks * Sparks to send an email to the list to pass this task on. * Sparks to put a note on the list about Shared Open-Source Style Guide * Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Third alarm * Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --third alarm * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * Sparks (112) * quaid (44) * ianweller (29) * itbegins (26) * rudi (23) * ricky (4) Generated by `MeetBot`_ .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 20 01:14:30 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:14:30 -0400 Subject: License change in all Guides Message-ID: <1250730870.3293.4.camel@thunder> As we have been discussing for the past month or so, we are working to change our documentation license from OPL to CC-BY-SA 3.0. Please let me know, no later than 25 August 2009, if there is any problem with changing your guide over to the new CC license. -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Lead Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From rfontana at redhat.com Thu Aug 20 01:59:17 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2009 21:59:17 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-08-20 IRC log In-Reply-To: <1250730089.3293.0.camel@thunder> References: <1250730089.3293.0.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090820015917.GA3901@redhat.com> >From the IRC log: > 00:38:30 ianweller -- we can't use the icon > 00:38:36 +1 to button website > 00:38:40 *thud* > 00:38:42 not for publican > 00:38:46 rudi: I'd prefer that the license information go into the official release but I know you know that. > 00:38:48 well we can for the wiki > 00:38:52 We can't use it for the wiki > 00:38:55 why not > 00:39:03 rudi: I understood Richard to be talking about the legal notice for Publican > 00:39:04 sure we can't redistribute it but we're not > 00:39:10 we're just hotlinking it There were two issues raised by the CC-BY-SA button. First, regardless of our own policies, it is not clear that we could package the button icon with Publican without special permission from Creative Commons. I recently spoke with a lawyer for Creative Commons, and I believe Creative Commons would be willing to provide such permission. Second, Fedora Legal (spot) determined that use of the button in Fedora packages, and in fedoraproject.org web pages, is inconsistent with Fedora guidelines concerning acceptable terms for content. This seems to me to be correct based on what I know about past treatment of content issues that come up in Fedora packaging. (However, I think it would be a good idea for Fedora to provide a clearer statement of the established policy on freely-redistributable content.) > 00:39:58 augghhghhggghsdoagosrgjwjgoajldfjksfakgherjkojar <-- what is going through my mind right now [...] > 00:40:01 the Fedora logo is an unfree element and yet we use it on the webpages [...] > 00:40:07 so is ServerBeach's logo > 00:40:12 fedora logo is non-redistributable > 00:40:15 Sparks -- yes, but it's an unfree element that we own > 00:40:16 and Dell's > 00:40:23 we don't own the dell logo > 00:40:34 http://fedoraproject.org/sponsors There is definitely some basis here for saying that the policy does not seem to be applied consistently, or should be articulated in such a way as to explain these exceptions. I can see some rationale for distinguishing the CC-BY-SA button from the sponsor logos and the Fedora logo. The sponsor logo is used solely to provide an elaborate representation of the sponsor's name. The CC analogue would be the cc-within-a-circle logo, used in a context where it refers specifically to Creative Commons the organization. The CC-BY-SA button is a restrictively-licensed image that does not merely refer to the name of its owner. One could also argue that, based on some sort of meta-principle, Fedora is legitimately not subject to its own guidelines on free content. (This is rather unsatisfactory, since surely Fedora would not use the same logic to justify distributing non-free software.) Anyway, this is a difficult issue. I suggest taking it up with Spot. - Richard From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Aug 20 15:41:36 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 21:11:36 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 Alpha release notes: TODO In-Reply-To: <4A887C51.4070203@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A887C51.4070203@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4A8D6EB0.9040104@fedoraproject.org> On 08/17/2009 03:08 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi, > > I see a lot of discussions/meetings etc but not not enough people > editing the release notes to generate actual content. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes > > If you want to help, the following things would be good to add: > > * Screenshot of NM broadband wizard > > * Replace the GNOME Volume screenshot with one taken with the default > Fedora GNOME theme > > * Attach the Ogg Video of Plymouth bootup to the relevant section > > * Expand the PackageKit section with more details. Take a Ogg Theora > Video of PackageKit command line plugin in action. > > * Add details on Empathy - protocols, feature esp in comparison to > Pidgin and missing features that are planned to be filled in before the > general release. Would help set expectations. Noone interested? Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Thu Aug 20 19:18:53 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 15:18:53 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Alpha release notes: TODO In-Reply-To: <4A8D6EB0.9040104@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A887C51.4070203@fedoraproject.org> <4A8D6EB0.9040104@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090820191853.GH12829@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 09:11:36PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 08/17/2009 03:08 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I see a lot of discussions/meetings etc but not not enough people > > editing the release notes to generate actual content. > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes > > > > If you want to help, the following things would be good to add: > > > > * Screenshot of NM broadband wizard > > > > * Replace the GNOME Volume screenshot with one taken with the default > > Fedora GNOME theme See below. > > * Attach the Ogg Video of Plymouth bootup to the relevant section > > > > * Expand the PackageKit section with more details. Take a Ogg Theora > > Video of PackageKit command line plugin in action. See below. > > * Add details on Empathy - protocols, feature esp in comparison to > > Pidgin and missing features that are planned to be filled in before the > > general release. Would help set expectations. > > Noone interested? Sound prefs: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/images/screenshots/f12-sound-prefs/ PackageKit command not found plugin: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/video/pk-cnf-plugin.ogg This was super-simple to do, I just installed istanbul, created a new user account to run it, and found a random command not already installed. OK, who else is going to step up and try one or two of these items? Putting f-marketing-l on the CC just to see if we can catch anyone there looking for easy ways to help. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From shaunm at gnome.org Fri Aug 21 04:11:01 2009 From: shaunm at gnome.org (Shaun McCance) Date: Thu, 20 Aug 2009 23:11:01 -0500 Subject: Mallard review meeting Message-ID: <1250827861.27497.90.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi folks, The GNOME documentation team is going to have a Mallard review session this sunday at 17:00 UTC. I don't know how much members of the Fedora documentation team have worked with Mallard, but since our work upstream affects you, I'd like to invite anybody who's interested to stop by. Here's the wiki page for the meeting: http://live.gnome.org/DocumentationProject/Meeting20090823 And here's the latest build of the Mallard specification: http://www.gnome.org/~shaunm/mallard/spec.html The text of the specification is not complete in many places, but we want to focus on the content model for this meeting. Basically, we're looking for things that might cause problems that we can't fix in a backwards-compatible way after we've started shipping Mallard documents. If you can't attend the meeting but still have input, please send it to the gnome-doc-list at gnome.org mailing list. Feel free to contact me with any questions. -- Shaun From poelstra at redhat.com Fri Aug 21 22:36:20 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:36:20 -0700 Subject: Upcoming scheduled tasks Message-ID: <4A8F2164.9090508@redhat.com> Name Start End Create Alpha Announcement Wed 2009-08-19 Fri 2009-08-21 Comb Beats and Feature Pages for Alpha Wed 2009-08-19 Mon 2009-08-24 Prepare Alpha Release Notes (1 page) Mon 2009-08-24 Mon 2009-08-24 Write Unclaimed Wiki Beats Mon 2009-08-24 Thu 2009-08-27 Post Alpha Release Notes One-Page Tue 2009-08-25 Tue 2009-08-25 Alpha Public Availability Tue 2009-08-25 Tue 2009-08-25 Port Wiki to Publican Fri 2009-08-28 Thu 2009-09-03 Remind Translation: Beta Rel Notes POT Coming Tue 2009-09-01 Tue 2009-09-01 From zoglesby at zach.tk Fri Aug 21 22:57:36 2009 From: zoglesby at zach.tk (Zach Oglesby) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 00:57:36 +0200 Subject: Upcoming scheduled tasks In-Reply-To: <4A8F2164.9090508@redhat.com> References: <4A8F2164.9090508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090821225159.GA8825@zaphod.local.lan> On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 03:36:20PM -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > Name Start > End > > Create Alpha Announcement Wed 2009-08-19 > Fri 2009-08-21 > Comb Beats and Feature Pages for Alpha Wed 2009-08-19 > Mon 2009-08-24 > Prepare Alpha Release Notes (1 page) Mon 2009-08-24 > Mon 2009-08-24 > Write Unclaimed Wiki Beats Mon 2009-08-24 > Thu 2009-08-27 > Post Alpha Release Notes One-Page Tue 2009-08-25 > Tue 2009-08-25 > Alpha Public Availability Tue 2009-08-25 > Tue 2009-08-25 > Port Wiki to Publican Fri 2009-08-28 > Thu 2009-09-03 > Remind Translation: Beta Rel Notes POT Coming Tue 2009-09-01 > Tue 2009-09-01 > I think we may need to send a note out to beat writers, or we will be looking at lots of work come the 24th! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mike at l4m3.com Sat Aug 22 01:28:59 2009 From: mike at l4m3.com (mike) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 18:28:59 -0700 Subject: Upcoming scheduled tasks In-Reply-To: <4A8F2164.9090508@redhat.com> References: <4A8F2164.9090508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <45f2c52a28a6700809e5a23d0dc6b22e@localhost> I must have been ignoring the meeting minutes, but why are we converting the Wiki to publican? On Fri, 21 Aug 2009 15:36:20 -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > Name Start End > > Create Alpha Announcement Wed 2009-08-19 Fri > 2009-08-21 > Comb Beats and Feature Pages for Alpha Wed 2009-08-19 Mon > 2009-08-24 > Prepare Alpha Release Notes (1 page) Mon 2009-08-24 Mon > 2009-08-24 > Write Unclaimed Wiki Beats Mon 2009-08-24 Thu > 2009-08-27 > Post Alpha Release Notes One-Page Tue 2009-08-25 Tue > 2009-08-25 > Alpha Public Availability Tue 2009-08-25 Tue > 2009-08-25 > Port Wiki to Publican Fri 2009-08-28 Thu > 2009-09-03 > Remind Translation: Beta Rel Notes POT Coming Tue 2009-09-01 Tue > 2009-09-01 From jonstanley at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 02:14:01 2009 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2009 22:14:01 -0400 Subject: Upcoming scheduled tasks In-Reply-To: <45f2c52a28a6700809e5a23d0dc6b22e@localhost> References: <4A8F2164.9090508@redhat.com> <45f2c52a28a6700809e5a23d0dc6b22e@localhost> Message-ID: On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 9:28 PM, mike wrote: > I must have been ignoring the meeting minutes, but why are we converting > the Wiki to publican? Just the release notes, not the whole thing :) From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 14:40:59 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:10:59 +0530 Subject: Is there a way to define a wiki table in a single line? Message-ID: Hi, Is there some way which allows me to do the following and still get the right formatting in wiki? {| |- style="color: white; background-color: #3074c2; font-weight: bold" align="justified" |'''Name'''||'''Email''' |- | [[User:ccc| ccc]] ||(ccc AT fedoraproject DOT org) |- |[[User:ddd|ddd]] ||(ddd AT fedoraproject DOT org) |} The correct one is this: {| |- style="color: white; background-color: #3074c2; font-weight: bold" align="justified" |'''Name'''||'''Email''' |- | [[User:ccc| ccc]] ||(ccc AT fedoraproject DOT org) |- |[[User:ddd|ddd]] ||(ddd AT fedoraproject DOT org) |} -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= Sent from Calcutta, WB, India From ian at ianweller.org Sat Aug 22 15:30:28 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 10:30:28 -0500 Subject: Is there a way to define a wiki table in a single line? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090822153028.GB28445@deathray.ianweller.org> On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 08:10:59PM +0530, susmit shannigrahi wrote: > Hi, > > Is there some way which allows me to do the following and still get > the right formatting in wiki? > Unfortuantely no, the newlines are important to the parser. :( -- Ian Weller "Why, a four-year-old could understand this report. Find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail out of it." -- Groucho Marx, "Duck Soup" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com Sat Aug 22 15:33:57 2009 From: thinklinux.ssh at gmail.com (susmit shannigrahi) Date: Sat, 22 Aug 2009 21:03:57 +0530 Subject: Is there a way to define a wiki table in a single line? In-Reply-To: <20090822153028.GB28445@deathray.ianweller.org> References: <20090822153028.GB28445@deathray.ianweller.org> Message-ID: > Unfortuantely no, the newlines are important to the parser. :( Hmm, ok. Anyways, I have got it working by using raw html table tag. Thanks. -- Regards, Susmit. ============================================= ssh 0x86DD170A http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:susmit ============================================= Sent from Calcutta, WB, India From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Aug 23 20:06:18 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 23 Aug 2009 16:06:18 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200908232006.n7NK6IPG013738@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 Bug 505938 depends on bug 512273, which changed state. Bug 512273 Summary: Review Request: php-pear-File-Bittorrent2 - Decode and Encode data in Bittorrent format https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=512273 What |Old Value |New Value ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |CLOSED Resolution| |CURRENTRELEASE -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From dhensley at redhat.com Wed Aug 26 00:37:46 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas Hensley) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 02:37:46 +0200 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-08-20 IRC log In-Reply-To: <1250730089.3293.0.camel@thunder> References: <1250730089.3293.0.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A9483DA.30808@redhat.com> Eric, On 08/20/2009 03:01 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > 00:19:46 #action Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Third alarm Would you be able to create a "deployment_guide" component in the Fedora Documentation product for me? I've got a large number of BZs I'd like to file against the current guide to keep track of things. Thanks again, -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. Purky?ova 99 | Brno, Czech Republic Office Direct Dial?62116 Brno Office?(+420) 532 294 111 ext. 10718 From kulvan811 at googlemail.com Wed Aug 26 06:05:36 2009 From: kulvan811 at googlemail.com (kulvan811 at googlemail.com) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:05:36 +0200 (CEST) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?e_bike_elektrofahrrad_28_zoll__ave_elektrofahrrad?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_klappfahrr=E4der_im_elektro_klapprad_und_elektrofa?= =?iso-8859-1?q?hrr=E4der?= Message-ID: <20090826060536.CE63E7CD642@web34.heiko-rudolf.de> e bike elektrofahrrad 28 zoll ave elektrofahrrad klappfahrr?der im elektro klapprad und elektrofahrr?der + + + +++ ELEKTRO FAHRR?DER ** ELEKTROFAHRRAD ** ELEKTROFAHRR?DER ** ELEKTRO FAHRRAD +++ + http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ 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http://ibm-news.for-um.de/showthread.php?p=51754#post51755 http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-cluster/2009-07/msg00021.html http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies-es-cvs/2009-07/msg00000.html http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-future/2009-07/msg00015.html http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-crypto/2009-07/msg00024.html http://ibm-news.for-um.de/showthread.php?p=51740#post51740 From kulvan811 at googlemail.com Wed Aug 26 06:01:57 2009 From: kulvan811 at googlemail.com (kulvan811 at googlemail.com) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:01:57 +0200 (CEST) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?zum_elektrofahrrad__elektro_fahrrad_selber_fahrra?= =?iso-8859-1?q?d_mit_hilfsmotor_f=FChrerschein_alu_rex_e_bike_elek?= =?iso-8859-1?q?trofahrrad_28_zoll_elektrofahrrad_unter?= Message-ID: <20090826060157.BF60A7CD641@web34.heiko-rudolf.de> zum elektrofahrrad elektro fahrrad selber fahrrad mit hilfsmotor f?hrerschein alu rex e bike elektrofahrrad 28 zoll elektrofahrrad unter + + + +++ ELEKTRO FAHRR?DER ** ELEKTROFAHRRAD ** 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elektro nachr?stsatz, rex fahrrad mit hilfsmotor, elektrofahrrad 45 km h, elektro fahrrad 2009, hon klapprad, elektrofahrrad rekuperation, elektrofahrrad m?nchen, elektro fahrrad gebraucht, http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies-projects/2009-07/msg00005.html http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-aviation/2009-07/msg00008.html http://mail.nl.linux.org/linux-future/2009-07/msg00016.html http://www10.aeccafe.com/ng/article.php?id=9516&group=alt.landscape.architecture#9516 http://mail.nl.linux.org/kernelnewbies-es/2009-07/msg00011.html http://ibm-news.for-um.de/showthread.php?p=51765#post51765 http://www.dogomania.com/forum/showthread.php?p=299366#post299366 http://www.dogomania.com/forum/showthread.php?p=299376#post299376 From kulvan811 at googlemail.com Wed Aug 26 06:06:31 2009 From: kulvan811 at googlemail.com (kulvan811 at googlemail.com) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:06:31 +0200 (CEST) Subject: kreidler e bike 26 elektrofahrrad rad elektro roller bike 28 elektrofahrrad herkules elektro fahrrad 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06:39:03 2009 From: kulvan811 at googlemail.com (kulvan811 at googlemail.com) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 08:39:03 +0200 (CEST) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?elektrofahrr=E4der_h=E4ndler__fahrrad_mit_hilfsmo?= =?iso-8859-1?q?tor_f=FChrerschein_testberichte_elektrofahrr=E4der_?= =?iso-8859-1?q?elektrofahrrad_mountainbike_fahrrad_mit_motor_bauen?= Message-ID: <20090826063903.C1CF62620E@web34.heiko-rudolf.de> elektrofahrr?der h?ndler fahrrad mit hilfsmotor f?hrerschein testberichte elektrofahrr?der elektrofahrrad mountainbike fahrrad mit motor bauen + + + +++ ELEKTRO FAHRR?DER ** ELEKTROFAHRRAD ** ELEKTROFAHRR?DER ** ELEKTRO FAHRRAD +++ + http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ http://WWW.ELEKTRO-FAHRRAD-ONLINE.NL/ 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elektrofahrr?der, diamant elektro fahrrad, elektrofahrrad tiefeinsteiger, elektrofahrrad 500, 2 elektrofahrrad, fahrrad mit hilfsmotor saxonette, elektrofahrrad tiefeinstieg, www klappfahrr?der de, fahrrad mit elektromotor nachr?sten, elektro fahrrad test, klapprad de, kesenci klappfahrrad, zum elektrofahrrad, 2 rad elektro, klapprad mit tasche, benz hybrid bike elektrofahrrad, elektrofahrr?der ch, heinzmann elektrofahrrad, e bike 26 elektrofahrrad, fahrrad elektro motor, senioren elektro fahrrad de hilfe, elektrofahrr?der, elektro fahrrad verleih, elektro fahrrad de, fahrrad mit hilfsmotor, elektrofahrr?der preisvergleich, klappfahrrad com, elektrofahrr?der h?ndler, ktm elektrofahrr?der, fahhrad mit motor, klapprad und, elektrofahrrad ?sterreich, fahrrad mit elektromotor nachr?sten, elektro fahrrad mcfun, sparta elektrofahrrad, elektrofahrrad plus, fahrrad mit motor, From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Aug 26 13:37:08 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 09:37:08 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-08-20 IRC log In-Reply-To: <4A9483DA.30808@redhat.com> References: <1250730089.3293.0.camel@thunder> <4A9483DA.30808@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 20:37, Douglas Silas Hensley wrote: > Eric, > > On 08/20/2009 03:01 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: >> >> 00:19:46 ?#action Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide >> --Third alarm > > Would you be able to create a "deployment_guide" component in the Fedora > Documentation product for me? I've got a large number of BZs I'd like to > file against the current guide to keep track of things. > > Thanks again, > > -- > Douglas Silas > Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. > Purky?ova 99 | Brno, Czech Republic > Office Direct Dial?62116 > Brno Office?(+420) 532 294 111 ext. 10718 > Sorry for the delay. I just added this to the list. It might take a couple of hours but it should be up on BZ soon. --Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 27 01:12:47 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:12:47 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-08-26 IRC Log Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 00:02:47 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:02:47 Meeting started Thu Aug 27 00:02:47 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:02:47 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:02:54 #topic Roll Call 00:02:55 * Sparks 00:03:38 * rudi is here 00:03:56 * itbegins here 00:05:18 * Sparks wonders where everyone is today 00:06:24 * laubersm is here 00:07:05 Okay, lets get started... 00:07:11 #topic Last week's action items 00:07:23 Sparks to create BZ component Deployment Guide --Third alarm 00:07:31 Finally done. 00:07:43 Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki --third alarm 00:07:48 Still in progress 00:07:56 #action Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki 00:08:08 quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme 00:08:13 quaid: You around? 00:08:42 I know Mo has been working on the Zikula theme. I'm sure this is in progress. 00:08:56 rudi to follow up with Jeff about changing the license information in Publican 0.44 and 1.0 00:09:10 rudi: Got an update? 00:09:21 We're still a few steps away from that 00:09:26 * ianweller rolls in 00:09:45 I can report a little on the theme, depending on what you want to knwo 00:10:04 rudi: Okay, I'll put it down for next week so we can talk about it again. 00:10:11 Yep 00:10:14 #action rudi to follow up with Jeff about changing the license information in Publican 0.44 and 1.0 00:10:18 ianweller: Go 00:10:40 about my part of it? the writing up of the announcement? 00:11:32 Sparks: hi? 00:11:42 the theme 00:11:48 oh for zikula 00:12:05 hmm i'm not sure what i need to say, other than taht school is eating me alive 00:12:14 * ianweller wasn't sure he had anything assigned for zikula right now 00:12:37 Sparks: You mean me? 00:12:39 ianweller: Opps.. sorry 00:12:46 itbegins: Yeah, I meant you. sorry 00:12:49 quaid: yep, zikula theme is all rolling for FI 00:12:55 * Sparks is not doing a good job of multitasking tonight 00:13:05 * quaid either 00:13:07 mizmo is in progress on the theme: http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula/ 00:13:17 and Zikula is getting rolled out to staging 00:13:35 and things are prepared in the repo (ideally) so she can have related Docs theme in there to make a Docs-specific RPM of the theme (AIUI) 00:13:44 or I'm confused and it's all going to run from one instance, one theme 00:14:06 quaid: One filesystem instance, mutliple databases -> multiple themes 00:14:21 I think I'm confused; that was my old idea, but Paul said we'll likely all be on the same instance 00:14:36 i.e turning on docs.fedoraproject.org Zikula is a case of installing a few new packages and updating the config file 00:14:50 ok 00:15:34 Okay, we'll come back to Zikula in a little bit for a more indepth discussion. 00:15:45 quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. 00:15:50 quaid: Got an update on this? 00:17:16 ;/me sneaks in late... 00:17:26 quaid: hello? 00:18:48 Okay, quaid must have rushed off... 00:18:59 Any more old business? 00:19:06 #action quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. 00:19:29 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:19:44 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:19:58 itbegins: So what is the status on rolling out Zikula for docs.fp.o? 00:20:24 Sparks: well, we're still waiting on those modules held up with license problems I think 00:20:43 Sparks: but marketing have kindly packaged a couple of modules we can use for the docs instance too. 00:20:50 Sadly not the blockers for the docs instance 00:21:14 I think we both need at least one editor to go with Scribite. 00:21:28 * Sparks hasn't had any time to even look at packaging one of those. 00:21:37 yes,that's true 00:22:16 Sparks: sorry, phone call 00:22:23 do you want to hear about the CC logos? 00:22:53 quaid: That will be the next topic 00:23:02 itbegins: Okay so we are close but not there 00:23:17 itbegins: Does marketing have everything they need to roll out their instance? 00:24:21 apart from a visual editor, probably 00:24:24 after a last minute scramble with chitlesh++, bobjensen++, toshio++ getting a few last minute packages done last night/today 00:24:26 though things may still come up 00:24:34 oh! no visual editor? heh heh 00:25:24 So we need one of the editors packaged 00:25:32 anyone want to stand up to take that task? 00:26:52 * danielsmw can try if no body else will, but he's never successfully packaged anything... 00:27:25 danielsmw: Well, this would be a good time to start being successful... there are templates for the SPEC and everything 00:27:25 Also I haven't been involved in this process at all so far 00:27:40 Sparks: Alright, well... 00:27:48 I suppose I can give it a shot and report back next week. 00:28:19 danielsmw: I'm sure ianweller or someone will be around to help 00:28:35 #action danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite 00:28:46 Okay, anything else on Zikula? 00:29:04 * quaid notes Beacon was accepted for F10/F11 00:29:13 but I guess it's not integrated? 00:29:18 danielsmw: Try pinging Toshio, he is involved with Zikula packaging 00:29:20 * danielsmw really likes beacon, btw. 00:29:22 quaid: And Beacon is the DocBook editor? 00:29:24 itbegins: Will do 00:29:27 Sparks: yep 00:29:45 Sparks: well, it's a web wysiwyg editor that now has upstream code to read/write docbook :) 00:29:48 Yeah, we need to get that integrated 00:30:17 satya has it running on a publictest instance, we can look at how to use it plain, too 00:30:22 * quaid is wandering topics now 00:31:02 Okay, let's move on. Lots of work to be done on Zikula but things are starting to come together 00:31:14 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:31:22 quaid: So what's the skinny on the CC logos? 00:31:53 ok 00:31:59 I read and read that page 00:32:03 http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-August/msg00075.html 00:32:16 and it's clear that the ball is in Richard's court with folks from Creative Commons 00:32:36 And we haven't heard back from him on this, yet. 00:32:37 it only having been a few weeks ... and he being a proactive and busy guy ... I think we have our clear answer for now 00:32:44 and will hear when there is something more 00:33:10 ianweller: Do you have the text for the wiki? 00:33:28 I would put this on the back-burner; don't forget about it, but revisit if a month goes by, then prod for a status. 00:33:44 so ... a few more weeks at least, then see if we can kindly get a status. :) 00:33:54 Well, we can go ahead with the change over, use the text version of the license, and change later as necessary 00:33:58 * danielsmw has to go, sorry for the short visit. 00:33:59 yes 00:34:02 ciao danielsmw 00:34:06 au revoir. 00:34:07 danielsmw: Have a good day! 00:34:11 Sparks: Thanks! 00:34:41 #action ianweller to bring to the list the text for the CC license for the wiki so it can be approved 00:35:03 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:35:17 ^^^ That is the timeline if anyone would like to take a peek at it. 00:35:56 I guess we are still waiting on the text being approved and then we can move on to step 4. 00:36:27 rudi: So what needs to happen to get the license changed in Publican for step 6? 00:37:19 The people involved in doc publishing could do it at any time by hacking their Publican 0 installs 00:38:12 rudi: Yeah, but I want to push it to everyone. That way there is 1) no confusion, 2) no differences, 3) and everyone does it. 00:38:44 I think it's unlikely that any more changes are forthcoming to brand packages for 0 00:38:52 since 1 handles brands so differently. 00:39:28 (And we're not quite up to testing brands in 1) 00:40:02 Well, that's a problem. 00:40:17 If 1 isn't out then 0 still needs to be supported 00:40:19 um, hmm 00:40:26 Not really; there are very few people actually publishing 00:40:36 is there any technical reason not to change brand pkg for 0? 00:40:49 it's just text strings, right? 00:41:05 and I'm quite happy to wrap those notices up in the package that I've got parked on my Fedora people page. 00:41:10 quaid -- correct. 00:41:18 No technical reason 00:41:22 Well if we get new people in we should be able to say "install publican" not "install publican and then do all these changes before you can use it" 00:41:29 rudi: is CS waiting to rebuild RHEL guides with the new license until 1.x handles brands? 00:41:32 * ianweller notes his action item and makes a sticky note 00:41:39 ianweller: Thank you 00:41:56 rudi: Can you adopt the brand and just make the changes there? 00:42:04 rudi: Or one of us? 00:42:25 Sparks - I can check into that. 00:42:28 does publican need a co-maintainer for the package? 00:42:38 * Sparks thinks 1.x should be released as publican-devel 00:42:53 -devel has a specific meaning, though 00:43:10 or was that a joke! 00:43:23 rudi: I'm not saying anything bad about Jeff... I know he's busy and he has this new tool he's putting a lot of effort into. But we still need the old tool to work for now. 00:43:25 because if it was, very funny! just don't tell it to jfearn if you are on the same continent. 00:43:46 quaid: I thougth -devel was for the development version of a package... a beta 00:43:51 nope 00:43:57 Sparks: -devel is development headers 00:44:00 yep 00:44:03 in C, those would be the .h files 00:44:06 Sparks -- yeah, but "work" for about three people :) 00:44:22 Sparks: and Publican was originally proposed as 'docs-devel', with much arguing about why that wasn't OK and such 00:44:58 rudi: sorry, where is the approv text for the license page? or proposed-and-under-review? 00:45:00 Well... I don't know. I'd like it to be in the repos... :) 00:45:28 rudi: it's not the people count, it's the F12 release 00:45:35 we have a dependency on a workingn tool for the F12 release 00:45:43 quaid -- proposed and review version is here : http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/license/ 00:45:54 we've had a rocky time for three releases with Publican feature status 00:46:06 The source is in the Publican repo already 00:46:20 and I thought with RHEL content upstream out here using Publican, it would work for Fedora :) 00:48:06 Sparks: well, there is no moving backward for now, so if Publican upstream isn't going to issue an update we can use, we'll have to do manual process around it again. 00:48:47 * Sparks thinks hijacking the package is an option... :) 00:48:50 quaid: Yeah 00:48:52 (Fedora *is* the Publican upstream) 00:49:13 Okay, anything else on the license changeover? 00:49:25 what is the reason for not pushing the brand update? 00:51:30 * quaid wonders if he has bad breath? 00:51:49 rudi: ^^^ 00:52:31 sorry, I haven't been reading publican-list; you can tell me to read the archives, if that's it 00:52:39 Basically that energies are elsewhere at the moment 00:53:09 can we have a packager apply to be co-maintainer? 00:53:19 we can get some help to do the work, if that's the block. 00:53:43 I'll ask :) 00:53:47 https://fedorahosted.org/publican/browser/branches/0.45/publican-fedora/en-US/Legal_Notice.xml is the old stuff 00:54:22 sparks, stickster, ke4qqq, or ianweller would all be good choices 00:54:53 Yes, because the new is here: https://fedorahosted.org/publican/browser/trunk/publican-fedora/en-US/Legal_Notice.xml 00:55:36 what's the bz for this? 00:56:34 For what? 00:57:12 the bz for publican-fedora requesting the license update 00:57:42 I don't know that there is one 00:57:44 Might not be 00:57:54 heh, ok 00:58:05 rudi: thanks, that XML was helpful; I'm building a book I want to be clearly under the CC 00:58:19 NP 00:58:50 rudi: and many thanks for working on the update of the content 00:58:51 If it's your own book, you might want to include the CC logo too ;) 00:59:09 * quaid is doing a Red Hat branded book, so knows the answer to that already 00:59:10 I know I would :) 00:59:14 Ah OK :) 00:59:49 NO CC LOGO IN PRINT!!! :) 01:00:33 Okay... anything else on this topic? 01:01:04 Action -- rudi to investigate getting a co-maintainer for 0 01:01:16 #Action -- rudi to investigate getting a co-maintainer for 0 01:01:20 * quaid thinks he can do that? 01:01:49 Let me test the waters first :) 01:02:30 Okay, lets move on to the last few topics so we can wrap things up for the day 01:02:39 #topic Guide needs? 01:02:48 Does anyone need anything for their guide? 01:03:14 #topic New Guides 01:03:22 How about new guides? Any of them? 01:04:22 Okay, there is a new guide in the works... 01:05:12 there will be an Amateur Radio Guide coming out discussing the various pieces of software in Fedora for hams 01:05:24 Any others? 01:05:51 #topic All other business 01:06:01 * laubersm is available for proofreading 01:06:06 Okay, anything else for the meeting? 01:06:09 I have lots of little sturts of time 01:06:15 I have very little predictable time 01:06:29 But ping me and I am happy to review materials... 01:06:30 laubersm: Yeah... understood 01:06:33 Thanks! 01:06:35 I know RN is coming up fast 01:06:47 and IG and UG for example 01:07:23 Thanks laubersm -- I'll be needing you :) 01:07:33 are the guides using Trac for one-task-per-chapter? 01:07:46 there is a workflow we can impose there, with writer owning then passing to an open editor 01:07:51 it's manual ... 01:08:36 Each chapter would be in its own file 01:08:53 The AR Guide will be in git 01:10:08 Anything else? 01:11:24 Okay, thanks everyone for coming tonight! 01:11:27 #endmeeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.7) iEYEARECAAYFAkqV3ZYACgkQfQTSQL0MFMEwhgCgyIVs7mVPpWg8C+5NYr04hMFd lgAAnRs42hyuiolykUm+FvNsetds0eO4 =q8W5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Aug 27 01:13:37 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2009 21:13:37 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-08-27 Summary Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:02:47 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-08-27/fedora-meeting.2009-08-27-00.02.log.html . Meeting log - ----------- * Roll Call (Sparks, 00:02:54) * Last week's action items (Sparks, 00:07:11) * ACTION: Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki (Sparks, 00:07:56) * ACTION: rudi to follow up with Jeff about changing the license information in Publican 0.44 and 1.0 (Sparks, 00:10:14) * ACTION: quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. (Sparks, 00:19:06) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (Sparks, 00:19:29) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks, 00:19:44) * ACTION: danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite (Sparks, 00:28:35) * Status on CC license rollout. (Sparks, 00:31:14) * LINK: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-August/msg00075.html (quaid, 00:32:03) * ACTION: ianweller to bring to the list the text for the CC license for the wiki so it can be approved (Sparks, 00:34:41) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule (Sparks, 00:35:03) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/publican/browser/branches/0.45/publican-fedora/en-US/Legal_Notice.xml is the old stuff (quaid, 00:53:47) * ACTION: -- rudi to investigate getting a co-maintainer for 0 (quaid, 01:01:16) * Guide needs? (Sparks, 01:02:39) * New Guides (Sparks, 01:03:14) * All other business (Sparks, 01:05:51) Meeting ended at 01:11:27 UTC. Action Items - ------------ * Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki * rudi to follow up with Jeff about changing the license information in Publican 0.44 and 1.0 * quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. * danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite * ianweller to bring to the list the text for the CC license for the wiki so it can be approved * -- rudi to investigate getting a co-maintainer for 0 Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * danielsmw * danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite * ianweller * ianweller to bring to the list the text for the CC license for the wiki so it can be approved * quaid * quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. * rudi * rudi to follow up with Jeff about changing the license information in Publican 0.44 and 1.0 * -- rudi to investigate getting a co-maintainer for 0 * Sparks * Sparks to write up CVE checking/validation procedures in the wiki * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * Sparks (93) * quaid (61) * rudi (28) * itbegins (14) * danielsmw (10) * ianweller (9) * laubersm (7) * zodbot (2) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.3 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.7) iEYEARECAAYFAkqV3ckACgkQfQTSQL0MFMEPFQCgjafAbn28Im2dakE5qzZmkwjz ZNAAoMGwDNW9c794VJLGGSGqG8XCmwLR =4kbY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From mel at redhat.com Thu Aug 27 04:45:22 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Thu, 27 Aug 2009 00:45:22 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-08-26 IRC Log In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A960F62.5080001@redhat.com> > 00:12:49 quaid: yep, zikula theme is all rolling for FI > 00:13:07 mizmo is in progress on the theme: > http://publictest6.fedoraproject.org/zikula/ > 00:13:17 and Zikula is getting rolled out to staging > 00:13:35 and things are prepared in the repo (ideally) so she can > have related Docs theme in there to make a Docs-specific RPM of the > theme (AIUI) For the record: we just (literally; the infrastructure ticket just hit my inbox) got an svn* repo for Ziklua themes. svn+ssh://svn.fedorahosted.org/svn/fedora-zikula-theme (It's empty right now, but will contain one core/default Fedora theme - the one Simon put together - and subfolders that are variants on that Fedora theme for things like docs, FI, and whatever else we need.) The commit groups is svnfedora-zikula-theme and right now I am the only group admin (though this will change to include Mo and Simon shortly) so now you know who to ping if you need access. :) --Mel *why svn? a few reasons: (1) easier to deal with subfolders, (2) Mo likes it, (3) lower barrier to entry for designers, who can get tortoisesvn and drag and drop and click buttons instead of having to learn arcane git syntax and the command line just to contribute to an icon. (The eventual goal is to get Design folks to use version control for evvvverything as well.) From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Aug 29 20:43:33 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 02:13:33 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Release Notes: How you can help Message-ID: <4A9992F5.5020602@fedoraproject.org> Hi, As I noted in the last marketing meeting could have done a better than with the release notes for the Alpha release than we did. I just ran out of time. The Beta release is schedule at 2009-10-13. So we don't really have too much time. As promised, here are more details. The Beta release notes is a important source of information for our users, testers, ambassadors, even fellow developers and press for that release. So I am asking you all to help you a bit. Here is how: I have "open sourced" my process of finding information and my notes and copied over all that information to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Beta_release_notes If you don't have much time, take one item in this list and add more information. I will also help you avoid even clicking on a link and copy the same information below: Quick notes: * Hybrid ISO - earlier revision in Alpha release notes history. Confirm that it works well before adding it here * Status of http://www.ing.unibs.it/openfwwf/ in Fedora? How well does it work? * Moblin - Explain in detail with potentially a screencast * GNOME Shell - Ogg Screencast possibly with voice over * Yum Presto - In GNOME and KDE groups. What about delta rpm generation? * http://live.gnome.org/GTK%2B/ClientSideWindows - Eclipse and Adobe Reader needs a workaround * Abrt - whats the status? * Anaconda MDRaid - Explain in detail * Lower Process Capabilities * Contact KDE SIG and gather important changes. Phonon has changed to gstreamer backend in Alpha release and was not mentioned. So call it out in the Beta release. Additional sources: * Look at F11 Preview release notes and use it as a template. It matches the beta this release because of rel eng decision to tweak the release process a bit * Read rawhide reports in between alpha and beta release for new packages as well as import changes worth noting here * Quickly skimp through all threads in fedora-devel and fedora-test list for note worthy changes * Read Planet Fedora and reference developer blogs when important changes are mentioned * Consult with QA team and make sure note worth issues are mentioned. If anything needs explicit testing, highlight it * More details at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/12/FeatureList. Read the release notes section of each of the approved feature Thanks. Rahul From chrzczonowicz at gmail.com Sun Aug 30 19:02:49 2009 From: chrzczonowicz at gmail.com (Tomek Chrzczonowicz) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 21:02:49 +0200 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Release Notes: How you can help In-Reply-To: <4A9992F5.5020602@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A9992F5.5020602@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1251658969.7293.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Dnia 2009-08-30, nie o godzinie 02:13 +0530, Rahul Sundaram pisze: > > * Status of http://www.ing.unibs.it/openfwwf/ in Fedora? How well does > it work? It works ok for me in Fedora 11 and 12 alpha (have yet to check with fully updated rawhide). 02:03.0 Network controller: Broadcom Corporation BCM4318 [AirForce One 54g] 802.11g Wireless LAN Controller (rev 02) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: To jest cz??? wiadomo?ci podpisana cyfrowo URL: From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Sun Aug 30 19:49:57 2009 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2009 12:49:57 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Release Notes: How you can help In-Reply-To: <4A9992F5.5020602@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A9992F5.5020602@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1251661797.2924.62.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> Unfortunately, I have not been keeping up with the mailing list at all. I hope I'm not being counterproductive and ignoring a new process. I typically start by copying the previous release's beat into my namespace[1] for reference and then whack away at the original location. I finally found a couple hours to get started on a rough draft[2] of the virtualization relnotes today. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Dale/Drafts/F11_Virtualization_Release_Notes [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Virtualization From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Aug 31 13:52:38 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 09:52:38 -0400 Subject: Out of town for this week's meeting Message-ID: I'll be out of town this week during the meeting time. Can I get a volunteer to direct the meeting? --Eric From ian at ianweller.org Mon Aug 31 21:34:39 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:34:39 -0500 Subject: CC BY-SA announcement drafts (also: holy crap ian did something!) Message-ID: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release These are really crappy. Help make them better. Maybe we should combine them, I don't know. -- Ian Weller "Why, a four-year-old could understand this report. Find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail out of it." -- Groucho Marx, "Duck Soup" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Aug 31 21:34:21 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2009 03:04:21 +0530 Subject: CC BY-SA announcement drafts (also: holy crap ian did something!) In-Reply-To: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> References: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> Message-ID: <4A9C41DD.6040505@fedoraproject.org> On 09/01/2009 03:04 AM, Ian Weller wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release > > These are really crappy. Help make them better. Maybe we should combine > them, I don't know. Afaik, we specifically picked the "unported" version rather than the U.S specific version. Am I wrong? Rahul From rfontana at redhat.com Mon Aug 31 21:44:12 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 17:44:12 -0400 Subject: CC BY-SA announcement drafts (also: holy crap ian did something!) In-Reply-To: <4A9C41DD.6040505@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> <4A9C41DD.6040505@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090831174412.7eb414da@calliope> On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 03:04:21 +0530 Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/01/2009 03:04 AM, Ian Weller wrote: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release > > > > These are really crappy. Help make them better. Maybe we should > > combine them, I don't know. > > Afaik, we specifically picked the "unported" version rather than the > U.S specific version. Am I wrong? You are correct, sir. - RF