From wb8rcr at arrl.net Sun Feb 1 01:28:38 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:28:38 -0500 Subject: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update Message-ID: The other day we decided it was about time for an update to the F10 release notes. I had some things to update, and I see by the git logs that Karsten was busy, too. So today I pushed what I believe to be the final needed changes to git. But what are the next steps? We need to push these changes to docs.fp.o, but I notice when I build them they have draft plastered all over them and the style looks different. So somehow they need to be built clean and then somehow moved to docs.fp.o. Then I presume we need to get the changes translated. And then turned into a package. So what are all these hidden steps that Paul and Karsten have been doing in the dead of night? --McD From stickster at gmail.com Sun Feb 1 22:39:35 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 17:39:35 -0500 Subject: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090201223935.GD9993@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 08:28:38PM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > The other day we decided it was about time for an update to the F10 > release notes. I had some things to update, and I see by the git logs > that Karsten was busy, too. > > So today I pushed what I believe to be the final needed changes to git. > But what are the next steps? > > We need to push these changes to docs.fp.o, but I notice when I build them > they have draft plastered all over them and the style looks different. So > somehow they need to be built clean and then somehow moved to docs.fp.o. The draft marking is part of the CSS, and if I remember correctly you won't see it when you post on docs.fp.o since there's a style sheet provided there automatically, site-wide. This publishing happens after translation. > Then I presume we need to get the changes translated. This happens before any other publishing -- leaving enough time for translators to work on the content. We're pretty far into the F11 development cycle so you'll want to talk to the translators on fedora-trans-list to see how much time they feel they need. If you can give an idea of how extensive the changes are (how many string changes in the POT?), that should help. > And then turned into a package. This can happen parallel to the web publishing, after translation. > So what are all these hidden steps that Paul and Karsten have been doing > in the dead of night? The web publishing is really nothing fancy. I think the steps are in the Documentation Guide, also published at docs.fp.o. The packaging is also less radical than you might think. I'm responsible for the fedora-release-notes package and can help with the updating of the RPM once the translation is done and the publishing is underway. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Mon Feb 2 00:45:26 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sun, 1 Feb 2009 19:45:26 -0500 Subject: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update References: <20090201223935.GD9993@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <944EAF7A82F841C0908BF1A7F02901F5@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 5:39 PM Subject: Re: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update > This happens before any other publishing -- leaving enough time for > translators to work on the content. We're pretty far into the F11 > development cycle so you'll want to talk to the translators on > fedora-trans-list to see how much time they feel they need. If you > can give an idea of how extensive the changes are (how many string > changes in the POT?), that should help. I only pushed changes to the XML. I hadn't made the pot. When I did a make pot, ad looked at the created file, I see a lot of empty msgstr. Presumably in something translated there would be some text in there, but given that the pot is created new from make how can that be? Should the newly-made pot also be pushed? Comments in the docs guide indicate that some translators watch this, but I worry about the empty msgstr's. When I grep the pot for the changed XMLs, there seem to be perhaps 35 strings associated with those files. I estimate perhaps 3/4 of those are new/changed, so does that imply perhaps a couple dozen strings to be translated? Of course, those are my changes. There were a number of commits prior to mine, not sure how to estimate what those might imply (although many commit messages imply that they might not have included new/changed prose). --McD From stickster at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 13:35:52 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 08:35:52 -0500 Subject: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update In-Reply-To: <944EAF7A82F841C0908BF1A7F02901F5@Aidan> References: <20090201223935.GD9993@localhost.localdomain> <944EAF7A82F841C0908BF1A7F02901F5@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090202133552.GG8936@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 07:45:26PM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" > To: > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2009 5:39 PM > Subject: Re: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update > >> This happens before any other publishing -- leaving enough time for >> translators to work on the content. We're pretty far into the F11 >> development cycle so you'll want to talk to the translators on >> fedora-trans-list to see how much time they feel they need. If you >> can give an idea of how extensive the changes are (how many string >> changes in the POT?), that should help. > > I only pushed changes to the XML. I hadn't made the pot. When I did a > make pot, ad looked at the created file, I see a lot of empty msgstr. > Presumably in something translated there would be some text in there, but > given that the pot is created new from make how can that be? Ah, this is how it's expected to work. The POT is an empty PO template, so there are no translations present inside. Translators copy "this-doc.pot" to ".po" where is their locale code. Then they fill in the appropriate strings. If they've already done some work, they use special merging commands that update what's changed, so they can check or add translations only as needed. > Should the newly-made pot also be pushed? Comments in the docs guide > indicate that some translators watch this, but I worry about the empty > msgstr's. Yes, the new POT should be pushed. In general you do this: $ make pot po $ cvs ci -m 'Put your message here' po/*.po{,t} And yes, you are updating the locale-specific PO files as well as the overall POT. The PO files will be merged automatically, as described above, and assuming their statistics display works properly, translators will see the statistics change. For instance, they'll see that now there are 8 new, untranslated strings, and 17 "fuzzy" (slightly changed) strings to work on. > When I grep the pot for the changed XMLs, there seem to be perhaps 35 > strings associated with those files. I estimate perhaps 3/4 of those are > new/changed, so does that imply perhaps a couple dozen strings to be > translated? > > Of course, those are my changes. There were a number of commits prior to > mine, not sure how to estimate what those might imply (although many > commit messages imply that they might not have included new/changed > prose). To see what the XML changes have done, I generally do "make postat" before I rebuild the POT, then again afterward, to see the effect. Generally at least one PO file is completely translated and then the effects are very easy to see. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Mon Feb 2 14:04:07 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:04:07 -0500 Subject: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update References: <20090201223935.GD9993@localhost.localdomain><944EAF7A82F841C0908BF1A7F02901F5@Aidan> <20090202133552.GG8936@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:35 AM Subject: Re: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update > $ cvs ci -m 'Put your message here' po/*.po{,t} CVS? I thought this was all via git (although I see a lot of CVS in the docs guide). Do we have multiple repos? I did trip across the make potstat. The results are a little interesting to try to interpret, but I get the idea. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Mon Feb 2 14:39:02 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 09:39:02 -0500 Subject: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update In-Reply-To: References: <20090202133552.GG8936@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090202143902.GB16520@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 09:04:07AM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" > To: > Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 8:35 AM > Subject: Re: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update > >> $ cvs ci -m 'Put your message here' po/*.po{,t} > > CVS? I thought this was all via git (although I see a lot of CVS in the > docs guide). Do we have multiple repos? > > I did trip across the make potstat. The results are a little interesting > to try to interpret, but I get the idea. Whoops, sorry -- flashback there. We used to use CVS but obviously the guides have been transitioning out to git and other SCMs. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Feb 3 01:00:34 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 2 Feb 2009 20:00:34 -0500 Subject: New Beat Writers Message-ID: <825BEB5A88544203BE69F0A9A1F775E7@Aidan> Last week a couple of new beat writers asked to "tag along" and get a feel for the beat writing thing. I thought I would describe what I've been doing to prepare for Fedora 11. First of all, you have seen some emails regarding Fedora 10, all about git and pot files and all that nonsense. That has nothing to do with the normal beat writer gig, and has only to do with my personal interest in understanding the whole process. Beat writers capture the prose in the wiki. Paul (for F10), and Ryan (for F11) work some maic under cover of darkness to turn those wiki notes into an RPM in 40 languages. The beat writer doesn't have to do that, but I'm a masochist and said I'd do it for F12, and help Ryan with F11, so I better learn how. To start on F11 I've been clearing out my wiki pages of the junk left over from F10. I have a couple more to do that held some update material for F10. Now that the updated stuff is in the repository, I can blow away those last remnants of F10 on the wiki. I've been keeping an eye on the features page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/FeatureList This is/should be the primary source for new features. And if you read the definition of a feature https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Policy/Definitions Those are pretty much the things we would like to write about. The problem is, a lot of things creep into the release that fit that definition, but are never viewed by the feature wrangler. Usually they are things that affect a smaller audience, but if something changes those people who use it need to know. Sometimes they need to do something to make it work, sometimes there is just a new feature they might make use of. I've also been watching the SIG pages for my beats, well those that have SIGs, anyway. Often these can provide an early warning of something that is going to show up. I have also been keeping an eye on the devel-list and on the Fedora "info" RSS feed. Both of these are awfully noisy, though. Still, even though I only give the RSS feed a quick scroll through, every so often something leaps out at me that I had missed. To be honest, my main bread and butter source is an ugly little program I wrote http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/checkBeat.tar.gz This gives me a list of things in my beats that have changed in rawhide since F10. it also provides me with a link (if the yum database contains a link) to the project's page. I've been going out to those pages, tracking down the release notes for the upstream, and capturing interesting bits in sub-pages of https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts Ultimately I will assemble these notes into some sort of (hopefully) readable prose for the release notes. This is probably overkill for a smaller beat, but for DevTools, it is a life saver. Since there seem to be so many changes in the DevTools beat, and it sounds like it will be a while before it settles, I'll probably start crafting some prose for the Amateur Radio and Embedded beats for F11 before seriously diving into DevTools, although there is so much work there that I'll need to get started promptly. I expect there will be a mass recompile shortly after the alpha release, and if my suspicions are correct, that may drive some changes that need to be reported, so I'm taking my DevTools data so far as kind of "alpha". You have probably seen some notes from Karsten and Ryan talking about what the release notes should look like in the future. I have some thoughts there, too, and I hope to build an example using the Amateur Radio beat, which is large enough to be interesting, but not so large that it's unmanageable. I'll spend some time there in the next few weeks, too. So that's where I am. If you see a beat that you have an interest in, put your name on the list. The detective work is kind of fun, and for most beats not too onerous. Then you can tell others what's cool about Fedora 11 in your corner of the world. And that goes not only for my "shadows", but for anyone who has an interest in some part of the business and would like to learn more about some specific area and share what they learned with others. It's kinda fun to be the fire hose instead of drinking from it! --McD From ryanlerch at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 05:42:51 2009 From: ryanlerch at gmail.com (ryan lerch) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 15:42:51 +1000 Subject: Preparing for F11 Release Notes In-Reply-To: <1233335532.4853.174.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <60EE4C102D714A938A5642E06D32612D@Aidan> <20090129125625.GB27203@localhost.localdomain> <3DD69E0C5F7B40F98BEA8481AC61716B@Aidan> <20090129132006.GD27203@localhost.localdomain> <4981C6A7.7030001@fedoraproject.org> <20090129153506.GD11073@localhost.localdomain> <671a617b0901291428m4896d22bv47a729a5f0608422@mail.gmail.com> <1233332134.4853.169.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1233332700.4369.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1233335532.4853.174.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <671a617b0902022142m6798a472k95c7b26c1e45d93d@mail.gmail.com> This link was posted in response to a similar thread i started on fedora-devel, and provides a good user "review" of the release notes... http://thorstenl.blogspot.com/2008/12/read-same-paragraphs-every-half-year.html cheers, ryanlerch On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 3:12 AM, Basil Mohamed Gohar wrote: > On Fri, 2009-01-30 at 11:25 -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: >> On Sat, 2009-01-31 at 00:15 +0800, Basil Mohamed Gohar wrote: >> > And I have to say, maybe it's just me, but I was far more "wowed" and >> > "awed" by the Gnome & KDE release notes than the Fedora ones. I still >> > got what I wanted from the Fedora ones, but the Gnome & KDE ones really >> > gave me that desire to try them out. >> >> So in addition to the facts we should throw in some sparkly objects that >> make people NEED to come try it out. The world might end unless you try >> out our new features! >> >> I agree. I've never read the GNOME or KDE release notes but I will now. >> If we are missing something that could entice people to come on over >> then we are missing out. > > I guess the main difference I recall are: > * Mentioning of what makes $thisrelease better than $thisrelease-- > * A reasonably flat layout in one document. No more than 2 levels > of hierarchy (easy to digest) > * Anything that needs more details is linked elsewhere > * The document itself looks pretty. If there is a compelling new > style, then that theme is used (e.g., KDE). If the website has > a nice interface, than that style is used (Gnome). I fear, > currently, Fedora Project is lacking on both fronts, at least on > the web side. > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Basil Mohamed Gohar > abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org > www.basilgohar.com > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 3 08:40:33 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 00:40:33 -0800 Subject: F11 Release Notes Beat Writers In-Reply-To: <20090128192352.GA31227@zaphod.local.lan> References: <49766741.8090107@christensenplace.us> <497D8C11.5060802@redhat.com> <51B0E0E265334F419D5F0469CB70ABAF@Aidan> <20090128192352.GA31227@zaphod.local.lan> Message-ID: <20090203084033.GG7772@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 08:23:52PM +0100, Zach Oglesby wrote: > I am also a new to the docs team I would like to write but would > anyone be willing to mentor me, or just kinda check my work and keep > me in the right direction? Ideally, we all watch each other. For example, I watch all of the beat pages, and you can use the recent changes (feed) to watch much more. This helps me catch things early; not mistakes as much as minor course corrections early in the journey. That said ... we definitely need a mentoring-type program for Docs, and I happen to have noticed that Sparks is working on one. In advance of that and considering I have a bit more free time within Docs now, I'm willing to sponsor anyone, starting with Zach. Zach -- come grab me on IRC next time (nick: quaid); I think I actually sponsored you in the Fedora account system (FAS) for the 'docs' group. We can chat about what you need and how I can help. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 3 11:06:36 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:06:36 -0800 Subject: CMS discussions yet again In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0901300229w4f28fdb0wd48439348bd71dff@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090128013513.GB4822@calliope.phig.org> <497FB9BA.5050306@redhat.com> <1233149901.7082.36.camel@frankenbox> <20090129235707.GA3327@calliope.phig.org> <95f1114b0901300229w4f28fdb0wd48439348bd71dff@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090203110636.GI7772@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 08:29:58PM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > > I'm actually surprised at Christopher's assessment of the situation. > > Is it disingenuous? He works in Red Hat's Content Services group, I > > assumed he was aware of the ongoing work from that group to fully open > > content that has been only on redhat.com to date. > > > > https://fedorahosted.org/securityguide/ > > https://fedorahosted.org/selinuxguide/ > > https://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide/ > [snip] > > I haven't added up the number of pages, but it's more than nothing. > > Consider that all but the first items from Red Hat were developed > > entirely in the community. > > Sorry to complain :-) "https://fedorahosted.org/selinuxguide/" was > developed entirely in the community. See the archives: > > > > The SELinux User Guide is not on > . > > I might have missed what you were saying, and the community reference > above may be referring to fedora documentation or fedora specific > mailing lists only. Also, "selinuxguide" may have been referring to > Red Hat Enterprise Linux 4? Thanks for the correction, I forgot the source of that content. The overall point remains the same, that there are more highly active content areas/guides than just a few. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 3 11:11:33 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 03:11:33 -0800 Subject: Fedora 11 Schedules In-Reply-To: <497F9C23.70809@redhat.com> References: <497F9C23.70809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090203111133.GJ7772@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 03:43:31PM -0800, John Poelstra wrote: > If I do not hear any feedback by Monday, February 2, 2009, I will assume > that both the Documentation and Translation schedules are correct. John: We didn't get to discussing this schedule in last week's meeting. I'm adding it to the agenda for this week, at the top. Can you hold off ratifying this schedule until the team can review together? We should be able to ratify it or send out a list of questions directly following the meeting (1900 to 2000 UTC on Wed.) thx - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 3 17:18:05 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 09:18:05 -0800 Subject: Fedora 10 Release Notes Update In-Reply-To: <20090201223935.GD9993@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090201223935.GD9993@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090203171805.GB5166@calliope.phig.org> On Sun, Feb 01, 2009 at 05:39:35PM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > The web publishing is really nothing fancy. I think the steps are in > the Documentation Guide, also published at docs.fp.o. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EditingFedoraRedhatCom Once you have the repo down, the folder web/scripts/ and web/config/ is useful, the latter with several READMEs. I got this all working under F10, but I cannot recall if I updated the documentation around it. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 18:58:19 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 13:58:19 -0500 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet Message-ID: <20090203185819.GE28565@localhost.localdomain> Hi Doc'ers, Two questions regarding the Fedora 11 Alpha release notes one-sheet, located here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Alpha_release_notes * Who's leading the charge to get it finished? * What if anything remains to be done for Thursday's release? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 22:11:57 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 17:11:57 -0500 Subject: Fedora 10 Release Notes update In-Reply-To: <1233694566.11604.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1233694566.11604.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090203221157.GJ28565@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 09:56:06PM +0100, Geert Warrink wrote: > The new pot has been pushed into the devel branch. > I suppose you intended to push it in the f-10 branch? Whoops, we'll have to remedy that. No content has changed from F-10 to devel other than the updates we want to push, so it should be safe to merge those changes back from 'devel' -> 'f10'. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ryanlerch at gmail.com Tue Feb 3 23:29:32 2009 From: ryanlerch at gmail.com (ryan lerch) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 09:29:32 +1000 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet In-Reply-To: <20090203185819.GE28565@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090203185819.GE28565@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <671a617b0902031529w405ba962q765b38440897cf86@mail.gmail.com> i just did a quick conversion of the alpha release notes into publican. a built copy of the html-single can be viewed here: http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/alpharelnotes/ there is also a tarball of the source up there as well: http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/Alpha_Release_Notes.tar.gz cheers, ryanlerch On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 4:58 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Hi Doc'ers, > > Two questions regarding the Fedora 11 Alpha release notes one-sheet, > located here: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Alpha_release_notes > > * Who's leading the charge to get it finished? > > * What if anything remains to be done for Thursday's release? > > -- > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 4 01:49:19 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:19:19 +0530 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet In-Reply-To: <20090203185819.GE28565@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090203185819.GE28565@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4988F41F.8050700@fedoraproject.org> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Hi Doc'ers, > > Two questions regarding the Fedora 11 Alpha release notes one-sheet, > located here: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Alpha_release_notes > > * Who's leading the charge to get it finished? I am > * What if anything remains to be done for Thursday's release? Done (almost). Only thing we might need to add is a brief intro to what Fedora is what we expect out of the alpha release, maybe at the end. Not sure that is necessary still. Thoughts? Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 4 03:17:44 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 19:17:44 -0800 Subject: comment on your wiki changes please Message-ID: <20090204031744.GB10000@calliope.phig.org> Whenever you make any change to the wiki, please put a comment in the appropriate field. This is good open source practice. The idea is to see why you did something, more than what. However, the wiki doesn't always reveal the diff for a viewer (e.g. watch email), so having a brief explanation of what you did is not verbotten. For another plea with cool graphics: http://ianweller.org/2009/01/25/an-important-notice-from-your-wiki-people/ -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 03:37:19 2009 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2009 21:37:19 -0600 Subject: comment on your wiki changes please In-Reply-To: <20090204031744.GB10000@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090204031744.GB10000@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20090204033719.GA28666@gmail.com> On Tue, Feb 03, 2009 at 07:17:44PM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > Whenever you make any change to the wiki, please put a comment in the > appropriate field. This is good open source practice. The idea is to > see why you did something, more than what. However, the wiki doesn't > always reveal the diff for a viewer (e.g. watch email), so having a > brief explanation of what you did is not verbotten. > +1 (Edit summary: useless reply [minor]) -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Feb 4 12:29:44 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 07:29:44 -0500 Subject: FDSCo Meeting Reminder Message-ID: <1233750584.20475.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> REMINDER: There will be a FDSCo Meeting today at 1900 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 12:33:01 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 07:33:01 -0500 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet In-Reply-To: <4988F41F.8050700@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090203185819.GE28565@localhost.localdomain> <4988F41F.8050700@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090204123301.GC4434@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 07:19:19AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> Hi Doc'ers, >> >> Two questions regarding the Fedora 11 Alpha release notes one-sheet, >> located here: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Alpha_release_notes >> >> * Who's leading the charge to get it finished? > > I am > >> * What if anything remains to be done for Thursday's release? > > Done (almost). Only thing we might need to add is a brief intro to what > Fedora is what we expect out of the alpha release, maybe at the end. Not > sure that is necessary still. Thoughts? I like the idea of having the purpose of the Alpha release coming first, before the feature list. I think any general info about Fedora should come last. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 15:13:15 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 10:13:15 -0500 Subject: [FW: Documentation Beat] Message-ID: <20090204151315.GP4434@localhost.localdomain> ----- Forwarded message from Jason Taylor ----- From: Jason Taylor To: fedora-news-list at redhat.com Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:42:57 -0500 Subject: Documentation Beat X-BeenThere: fedora-news-list at redhat.com Due to a new job and having to move I am not, in the forseeable future going to be able to dedicate time to the Doc beat. This being the case, if someone wants to take it over, that would be great! TIA... ----- End forwarded message ----- Is there anyone in Docs who's interested in taking up the Documentation beat for the Fedora Weekly News? The responsibilities are fairly simple and basically amount to summarizing over the weekend whatever major events happened during the previous week. The FWN is generally issued on Monday evenings (UTC time). -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Wed Feb 4 15:30:34 2009 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 23:30:34 +0800 Subject: [FW: Documentation Beat] In-Reply-To: <20090204151315.GP4434@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090204151315.GP4434@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1233761434.3634.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 10:13 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > ----- Forwarded message from Jason Taylor ----- > > From: Jason Taylor > To: fedora-news-list at redhat.com > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:42:57 -0500 > Subject: Documentation Beat > X-BeenThere: fedora-news-list at redhat.com > > Due to a new job and having to move I am not, in the forseeable future > going to be able to dedicate time to the Doc beat. This being the case, > if someone wants to take it over, that would be great! TIA... > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > Is there anyone in Docs who's interested in taking up the > Documentation beat for the Fedora Weekly News? The responsibilities > are fairly simple and basically amount to summarizing over the weekend > whatever major events happened during the previous week. The FWN is > generally issued on Monday evenings (UTC time). Can you elaborate a bit, perhaps, on what "major events happened during the previous week" means? Maybe it's obvious to others, but to me, that is hard to gauge. ________________________________________________________________________ Basil Mohamed Gohar abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org www.basilgohar.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Feb 4 15:58:47 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 10:58:47 -0500 Subject: Unavailable to meet... Message-ID: <1233763127.9194.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> $DAYJOB has requested my presence for a meeting this afternoon at the exact same time the Docs meeting will be going on. Can someone handle leading the meeting today, please? Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Wed Feb 4 16:39:20 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:39:20 -0500 Subject: FDSCo Meeting Reminder In-Reply-To: <1233750584.20475.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1233750584.20475.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Looks like I am going to miss this one but I'll look for the summary and log later tonight. Here are my thoughts on the agenda: - Ratify Docs schedule(L10n schedule, Docs + L10n schedule, John Poelstra's postto reply to) - CMS Update<-- ke4qqq I found the pt15 site but can't log in - I assume it is not yet hooked to FAS. As soon as it is, I would like to start looking around to see what is needed for me to assist the Packaging team with a decision and possible move. I can already imagine a number of issues needing to change [[wiki name]] syntax to full URL (like we have to do going to Docbook). I still need to understand the workflow options better. I also have plenty of admin experience but little with DB and none with any CMS. I would love to help with the infra side of the CMS as well. I want to learn. Just point me in the right direction :) - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd - Status on Installation Guide - Status on Security Guide <-- sparks - Status on SELinux Guide <-- mdious - Status on User Guide - Meeting Time Change Other than normal sleeping hours of Eastern US, there is no time consistently good or bad for me. I filled in the matrix for the most likely good times. - DocsProject wiki pages changes page changes in general: I have been working with Packaging and related materials https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_tasks_for_Packaging_Guide_and_related_materials Packaging.psv is ready for wikibot for renaming. (All pages need categories too.) packagemaintainers.psv should be ready by the end of the weekend. (Most have category added.) packagingdrafts needs a little more time but LOTS will be archived. (Then remaining need catgeories) - Go over task table - All other business I can't make any more long term commitments - but if there are other short term items - like an extra set of eyes for a final proofreading of a guide - I do have some extra time during the next week or two. -Susan (laubersm) On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:29 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > REMINDER: There will be a FDSCo Meeting today at 1900 UTC. The agenda can > be found at: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 16:46:54 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 11:46:54 -0500 Subject: [FW: Documentation Beat] In-Reply-To: <1233761434.3634.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090204151315.GP4434@localhost.localdomain> <1233761434.3634.66.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090204164654.GQ4434@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 11:30:34PM +0800, Basil Mohamed Gohar wrote: > On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 10:13 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > ----- Forwarded message from Jason Taylor ----- > > > > From: Jason Taylor > > To: fedora-news-list at redhat.com > > Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 09:42:57 -0500 > > Subject: Documentation Beat > > X-BeenThere: fedora-news-list at redhat.com > > > > Due to a new job and having to move I am not, in the forseeable future > > going to be able to dedicate time to the Doc beat. This being the case, > > if someone wants to take it over, that would be great! TIA... > > > > ----- End forwarded message ----- > > > > Is there anyone in Docs who's interested in taking up the > > Documentation beat for the Fedora Weekly News? The responsibilities > > are fairly simple and basically amount to summarizing over the weekend > > whatever major events happened during the previous week. The FWN is > > generally issued on Monday evenings (UTC time). > > Can you elaborate a bit, perhaps, on what "major events happened during > the previous week" means? Maybe it's obvious to others, but to me, that > is hard to gauge. Events on the fedora-docs-list, or from surrounding Fedora activity channels but still concerning the Docs team, that in the beat writer's estimation are of sufficient importance to interest the Fedora community beyond the Docs team. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From simon at zikula.org Wed Feb 4 16:58:58 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 16:58:58 -0000 Subject: CMS Login In-Reply-To: References: <1233750584.20475.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <025c01c986e9$dfc76b20$9f564160$@org> I should point out that until packaging is complete the most up to date version of the CMS (and the only one that will work with FAS login) is at http://fedora.zikula.org. This test site is just easier to work with (it has FTP for a start). I haven't yet hooked up FAS groups to the FAS login, so logging in doesn't actually gain you anything. I may be a little late to the meeting tonight, but I'll try to sign in from my mobile if I can. Simon From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Susan Lauber Sent: 04 February 2009 16:39 To: For participants of the Documentation Project Subject: Re: FDSCo Meeting Reminder Looks like I am going to miss this one but I'll look for the summary and log later tonight. Here are my thoughts on the agenda: * Ratify Docs schedule (L10n schedule, Docs + L10n schedule, John Poelstra's post to reply to) * CMS Update <-- ke4qqq I found the pt15 site but can't log in - I assume it is not yet hooked to FAS. As soon as it is, I would like to start looking around to see what is needed for me to assist the Packaging team with a decision and possible move. I can already imagine a number of issues needing to change [[wiki name]] syntax to full URL (like we have to do going to Docbook). I still need to understand the workflow options better. I also have plenty of admin experience but little with DB and none with any CMS. I would love to help with the infra side of the CMS as well. I want to learn. Just point me in the right direction :) * Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd * Status on Installation Guide * Status on Security Guide <-- sparks * Status on SELinux Guide <-- mdious * Status on User Guide * Meeting Time Change Other than normal sleeping hours of Eastern US, there is no time consistently good or bad for me. I filled in the matrix for the most likely good times. * DocsProject wiki pages changes page changes in general: I have been working with Packaging and related materials https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_tasks_for_Packaging_Guide_and_related_ma terials Packaging.psv is ready for wikibot for renaming. (All pages need categories too.) packagemaintainers.psv should be ready by the end of the weekend. (Most have category added.) packagingdrafts needs a little more time but LOTS will be archived. (Then remaining need catgeories) * Go over task table * All other business I can't make any more long term commitments - but if there are other short term items - like an extra set of eyes for a final proofreading of a guide - I do have some extra time during the next week or two. -Susan (laubersm) On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 7:29 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: REMINDER: There will be a FDSCo Meeting today at 1900 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1933 - Release Date: 02/03/09 17:48:00 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Feb 4 18:35:01 2009 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:35:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: CMS Login In-Reply-To: <025c01c986e9$dfc76b20$9f564160$@org> References: <1233750584.20475.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <025c01c986e9$dfc76b20$9f564160$@org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > > I should point out that until packaging is complete the most up to date version of the CMS (and the only one that will > work with FAS login) is at http://fedora.zikula.org.? This test site is just easier to work with (it has FTP for a > start). > > ? > > I haven?t yet hooked up FAS groups to the FAS login, so logging in doesn?t actually gain you anything.? I may be a little > late to the meeting tonight, but I?ll try to sign in from my mobile if I can. > Sorry guys, have to put a stop to this part. Don't log in to that site with your fas username and password. We'll have to save that stuff for our own servers and test fas. I'll see what the status of our test fas server is. -Mike From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Feb 4 18:39:57 2009 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:39:57 -0600 (CST) Subject: CMS Login In-Reply-To: References: <1233750584.20475.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <025c01c986e9$dfc76b20$9f564160$@org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Mike McGrath wrote: > On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > > > > > I should point out that until packaging is complete the most up to date version of the CMS (and the only one that will > > work with FAS login) is at http://fedora.zikula.org.? This test site is just easier to work with (it has FTP for a > > start). > > > > ? > > > > I haven?t yet hooked up FAS groups to the FAS login, so logging in doesn?t actually gain you anything.? I may be a little > > late to the meeting tonight, but I?ll try to sign in from my mobile if I can. > > > > Sorry guys, have to put a stop to this part. Don't log in to that site > with your fas username and password. We'll have to save that stuff for > our own servers and test fas. I'll see what the status of our test fas > server is. > K, Ricky is getting a test fas instance up dedicated to this. We'll create a group and give Simon admin access. You'll have to create a test account in this system but after Simon and co. point to the test fas instance you can log in and get back to testing :) I'll reply as soon as its ready. -Mike From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 4 18:41:35 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 13:41:35 -0500 Subject: Unavailable to meet... In-Reply-To: <1233763127.9194.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1233763127.9194.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090204184135.GB16992@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 10:58:47AM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > $DAYJOB has requested my presence for a meeting this afternoon at the > exact same time the Docs meeting will be going on. Can someone handle > leading the meeting today, please? [04 Feb 10:59] quaid: Can you run the meeting today? [04 Feb 11:01] Sparks_Work: yes Looks like quaid's got it! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Wed Feb 4 19:27:25 2009 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 13:27:25 -0600 (CST) Subject: CMS Login In-Reply-To: References: <1233750584.20475.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> <025c01c986e9$dfc76b20$9f564160$@org> Message-ID: On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Mike McGrath wrote: > On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Mike McGrath wrote: > > > On Wed, 4 Feb 2009, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > > > > > > > > I should point out that until packaging is complete the most up to date version of the CMS (and the only one that will > > > work with FAS login) is at http://fedora.zikula.org.? This test site is just easier to work with (it has FTP for a > > > start). > > > > > > ? > > > > > > I haven?t yet hooked up FAS groups to the FAS login, so logging in doesn?t actually gain you anything.? I may be a little > > > late to the meeting tonight, but I?ll try to sign in from my mobile if I can. > > > > > > > Sorry guys, have to put a stop to this part. Don't log in to that site > > with your fas username and password. We'll have to save that stuff for > > our own servers and test fas. I'll see what the status of our test fas > > server is. > > > > K, Ricky is getting a test fas instance up dedicated to this. We'll > create a group and give Simon admin access. You'll have to create a test > account in this system but after Simon and co. point to the test fas > instance you can log in and get back to testing :) > > I'll reply as soon as its ready. > Ok, all set. http://publictest15.fedoraproject.org/accounts/ What do you guys want the group name to be? -Mike From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 4 20:17:48 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:17:48 -0800 Subject: Docs meeting 2009-02-04 Summary Message-ID: <20090204201748.GQ10000@calliope.phig.org> Attending ========= John J. McDonough (jjmcd) Zach Oglesby (zoglesby) Paul W. Frields (stickster) David Nalley (ke4qqq) Karsten Wade (quaid) Mike McGrath (mmcgrath) Simon Birtwistle (itbegins) IRC log ======= https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090204 Summary ======= * Docs schedule -- quaid to talk about it with Sparks, ryanlerch, and others throughout the day via IRC, then ratify by ~0100 UTC Th. * CMS ** Packages built or in the works (we are using 8 modules) *** ke4qqq + zikula person are packaging ** Changes we requested turned in to a dedicated server build in the Zikula universe (vs. a shared hosting); these changes are in the 1.1.1 release just out. ** mmcgrath explained about how we do test authentication; any missing useful test environments we need are available soonest * Release notes -- Alpha one page is on wiki; ryanlerch converted them to DocBook XML/Publican, but they need to be published further from there. ** Until the CMS is in place, there is a trade-off between Publican-based Alpha/Beta notes and the ability to publish just-in-time via the wiki. If the relnotes team wants to do the latter, they need to update the schedule with content freezes and alert e.g. releng about the freezes so they know they cannot add last minute content at the literally last minute. * Installation Guide ** Writers needed, call to go out soon -- join while it's HOT! ** ke4qqq getting bug reports now * Security Guide -- please update via f-docs-l * SELinux Guide -- please update via f-docs-l * User Guide -- please update via f-docs-l * Meeting time -- not addressed, on list? * Wiki pages changes -- not addressed -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 4 20:28:04 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 12:28:04 -0800 Subject: Docs meeting 2009-02-04 IRC log Message-ID: <20090204202804.GR10000@calliope.phig.org> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090204 11:01 < quaid> 11:02 < jjmcd> yo 11:02 < zoglesby> hello 11:03 * jjmcd may be a little slow on the uptake today ... got drops in his eyes and can't see so good 11:03 -!- daumas [n=mcronenw at adsl-65-67-98-193.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has left #fedora-meeting [] 11:03 -!- alexxed [n=alex at dyn-85.186.119.28.tm.upcnet.ro] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:03 -!- itamarjp [n=itamar at 189-015-177-219.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:04 * quaid getting link to agenda, on sec 11:04 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings#Wednesday.2C_04_February_2009 11:06 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: F11 schedule confirmation/ratification 11:06 -!- fbijlsma [n=fbijlsma at 217.110.39.107] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:06 < quaid> if you look at that page above, there are links to the schedule and poelcat's last post on it 11:07 < quaid> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html 11:07 < quaid> that's our main one 11:07 * stickster back now 11:07 < quaid> anyone had a chance to look at that before? 11:07 < stickster> quaid: This one might help too: 11:08 < stickster> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-and-trans-tasks.html 11:08 < stickster> Shows lining up of Docs w/L10n. 11:08 < stickster> I sent poelcat a comment or two about that one IIRC 11:08 < quaid> wazzat? 11:09 < jjmcd> What precisely is "String freeze"? 11:09 < stickster> I think it was a clarification of how the item was stated on one line. 11:09 < quaid> jjmcd: it is 11:09 < stickster> jjmcd: The point beyond which strings are not changed 11:09 -!- itamarjp [n=itamar at 189-015-177-219.xd-dynamic.ctbcnetsuper.com.br] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:09 < stickster> jjmcd: For software, that means no further changes to dialog text, etc. that would make more work for translators. 11:10 < jjmcd> aha 11:10 < stickster> jjmcd: That way, starting with the string freeze, they are working with set-in-stone POTs for everything 11:10 < stickster> jjmcd: *occasionally* they will change, but violating the string freeze has to be requested from the L10n, or at least announced, and justified 11:10 < quaid> same for content 11:11 < quaid> so on our schedule, a "Translation Deadline" is the deadline for the l10n team to finish trans 11:11 * ke4qqq is late 11:11 < quaid> where a string freeze is our deadline for getting content finished for l10n to start on 11:11 -!- kgs [n=kgs at c-69-254-162-212.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:11 < jjmcd> OK, so basically, L10n focuses on translating software for beta, docs for release 11:12 < quaid> for preview and final release 11:12 * quaid confirms that 11:12 -!- jwb [n=jwboyer at fedora/jwb] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:12 < jjmcd> yah, didn't scroll all the way down to previes 11:12 < quaid> that's actually where it gets confusing 11:12 -!- jwb [n=jwboyer at fedora/jwb] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:12 < quaid> the time between beta and preview is so tight ... 11:13 -!- lfoppiano [n=lfoppian at fedora/lfoppiano] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:14 -!- warren [n=warren at redhat/wombat/warren] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:14 < quaid> yeah, it looks like 4-14 is the trans deadline for the release notes, and we build it on 4-21 11:14 < jjmcd> seems like for F10 we had like 3 betas 11:16 < quaid> ok, I don't think I see anything that bothers me 11:16 < quaid> what other clarifications can we provide? 11:18 * stickster waves to ke4qqq 11:18 < quaid> we should hear from Sparks (and ke4qqq !) before ratifying 11:18 < quaid> we can push this to later via IRC when they are available. 11:19 < jjmcd> and ryanlerch 11:19 < quaid> that is, I think ke4qqq was there and jsmith certainly was when we made the schedule 11:19 < quaid> yeah, good point 11:19 < quaid> how about this 11:19 < stickster> Right 11:19 < quaid> I'll take the task of talking with everyone today 11:19 < stickster> We should just ask Sparks to stamp it (if agreed) and communicate with Poelstra 11:19 * ke4qqq waves back at stickster 11:19 * stickster just totally resaid what everyone else just said. 11:19 < quaid> and we'll get questions or approval or whatever worked out by ~0100 UTC Th. 11:20 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: CMS update 11:20 < quaid> good timing ke4qqq 11:20 < ke4qqq> lol 11:20 < ke4qqq> I suppose 11:20 < jjmcd> Does ryanlerch even come online by then? Thats only la few hours from now 11:21 < ke4qqq> he's got almost 4 hours 11:21 * jjmcd shouldn't have told the optometrist "oh yeah, we can do the dilation thing this year" 11:21 < quaid> jjmcd: yeah, unless he sleeps in, six hours from now is late enough 11:22 < quaid> 0100 isn't a hard deadline, that's roughly COB on PST. 11:22 < jjmcd> K, I knew I've been seeing him in tghe evening, but haven't been watching the clock that close 11:22 -!- kulll [n=kulll at 203.82.91.34] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 11:22 -!- danielsmw [n=danielsm at user-24-214-179-165.knology.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:22 < ke4qqq> anyway - CMS - so 1.1.1 zikula came out, and they are actually doing a dedicated server build (as opposed to shared hosting) to accommodate some of my complaints, but they'll have that available to everyone 11:23 -!- kulll [n=kulll at 203.82.91.34] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:23 < ke4qqq> rpm wise - I merely have to get the config file squared away to deal with all of the changes I requested that they made - otherwise it looks fine. I hopefully will have something up in a few days, and plan to dedicate the weekend to working on doing final tweaking 11:23 * quaid doesn't think Infra knew they'd get such a good vetting from Docs :) 11:24 < ke4qqq> yeah I thought the 16 .htaccess files was a bit overkill 11:24 < ke4qqq> I mean I see the need, but it's drastically slower 11:25 < ke4qqq> so we'll have a dedicated .conf file to handle all of that 11:25 < ke4qqq> anyway that's just the base package 11:25 < ke4qqq> we also have IIRC 8 modules 11:26 < ke4qqq> that we'll need to package I think 11:27 < quaid> are the Zikula folks interested in co-maintaining? 11:27 < ke4qqq> yes one of the zikula guys is working on the modules 11:27 * quaid is on the watch for packages Docs relies upon that only have a single maintainer :) 11:27 < quaid> kewl 11:27 < stickster> :-) 11:28 < ke4qqq> and they actually did the first push on the core package rpm, just some packaging guidelines that needed to be addressed 11:28 * mmcgrath wonders if his notes to the list made sense about authentication 11:29 < ke4qqq> mmcgrath: they did, but honestly I wasn't aware that either of the test sites were authing yet, just that we had discussed auth 11:30 * ke4qqq notes that's another module that we'll have to build a package for - as soon as we get source 11:31 < ke4qqq> and in response to your most recent message - IIRC there is already a cmsadmin group in fas now 11:31 < ke4qqq> sparks requested it last week 11:31 < mmcgrath> k, I'll re-create it in the test system 11:32 -!- warren [n=warren at redhat/wombat/warren] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:33 < stickster> mmcgrath: I had to read between the lines a little -- what you meant is that we shouldn't be sending usernames and passphrases to a system that's not managed by the Fedora Infrastructure team, right? 11:33 < stickster> i.e. it's not a problem with Zikula or anyone else in particular, more just a general best practice. 11:33 -!- itbegins [n=itbegins at nat-studcudn-172-24-62-0.fitz.cam.ac.uk] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:34 < itbegins> sorry to be so late, caught up in traffic much worse than I expected 11:34 < mmcgrath> stickster: correct. 11:34 < itbegins> I've got no log, anything on the CMS you'd like me to answer? 11:34 < mmcgrath> Nothing against the zikula guys, just a policy we have is all. We generally have a test infrastructure up. 11:34 < quaid> itbegins: no worries; there'll be an IRC log afterward; ke4qqq just gave us a status of packaging and such for CMS 11:35 < mmcgrath> so we threw the test account system up so they can auth against that until we're on the publictest servers, but everything should be golden again when they change from authing against admin.fp.o to authing against pt15 is all. 11:35 < mmcgrath> we've done this before in the past. 11:35 < mmcgrath> itbegins: did you get my messages to fedora-docs about auth? 11:35 < ke4qqq> mmcgrath: will we have to revert the ssl cert verification changes? 11:35 * ke4qqq assumes so 11:35 < ke4qqq> at least for client 11:35 < itbegins> mmcgrath: Just read them, that's fine and perfectly understandable 11:36 < mmcgrath> ssl cert verification? 11:36 < mmcgrath> oh oh. 11:36 < mmcgrath> ke4qqq: yah, just for test though. Thats why they were there :) 11:36 < ke4qqq> ok - shouldn't be a problem 11:37 < mmcgrath> itbegins: kew, I'm around all afternoon if you need help with the account system. The one at publictest15 we can do whatever you want to with as far as creating and removing users and test groups. go nuts! 11:37 < mmcgrath> :) 11:37 < ke4qqq> should be fun to play with regardless 11:37 < itbegins> mmcgrath: I've pretty much got it working, the only thing I think remains is syncing with FAS groups. I plan to do that by creating groups with the same name in the CMS and just syncing on login 11:37 < mmcgrath> cool 11:38 < itbegins> There's also a fallback to the normal Zikula auth should FAS crash for any reason 11:38 < mmcgrath> itbegins: after the meeting come ping me in #fedora-admin and I'll make sure the group and your test account are all setup properly. 11:39 < itbegins> mmcgrath: Ok, thanks. I'd also like that chat about php config/security 11:39 < mmcgrath> sure thing 11:39 -!- J5 [n=quintice at nat/redhat/x-f71c8f9d3cfd209a] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:39 < itbegins> Anything else people want to know about the CMS? 11:40 -!- J5 [n=quintice at 66.187.234.199] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:41 < quaid> ok, we can move on then 11:41 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:42 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: Relnotes update 11:42 < quaid> jjmcd who cannot see ... have anything to add? 11:42 < jjmcd> No, sounds good to me 11:42 * quaid knows Alpha notes are out, ryanlerch was looking at converting to DocBook but don't know if he wanted to follow through with publishing them 11:43 * ke4qqq thought he had publicanized them already 11:43 < jjmcd> ryanlerch would like to do a routine wiki->DocBook translation 11:43 < quaid> sure 11:43 -!- zcat [n=zcat at fedora/zcat] has quit [] 11:43 < quaid> but he just ran in to the very reason we stopped :) 11:43 < ke4qqq> which is? 11:43 < quaid> it's "done" but not published 11:43 < ke4qqq> ahhh ok 11:43 < quaid> is it in git? 11:43 < quaid> can I go publish it right now? 11:44 -!- zcat [n=zcat at fedora/zcat] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:44 < quaid> cf. the wiki which is there, done, published, let's move on-able 11:44 < quaid> we all just need to be aware that each of these does add complexity 11:45 < stickster> quaid: So what you're saying... 11:45 * jjmcd sees some regression test value in a routine build, esp. if automated 11:45 < stickster> is that we can publish on the wiki instantly, but... 11:45 * stickster scratches head. 11:45 < quaid> cannot yet on docs.fp.org, yes 11:46 < stickster> Ah, right. 11:46 < stickster> So we can't just publish the Publican output HTML on docs.fedoraproject.org. 11:46 < stickster> Because... style sheets will be wrong? 11:46 < quaid> I was more drawing the lines between the dots to explain what wasn't so obvious to people, i.e., why we had moved to the wiki for Alpha/Beta notes in the past. 11:46 < stickster> Or is it because we're still converting things to PHP and stuff gets stripped in the back and forth? 11:46 < quaid> we can just publish them 11:47 < quaid> sorry, I'm not being obvious, am I? 11:47 < itbegins> stickster: Part of the stuff I'm getting done for the CMS is a pull-from-source-and-publish bash script 11:47 < stickster> quaid: No, and we should be. 11:47 < quaid> until the desire to Publicanize them came about, the task was done. 11:47 < itbegins> stickster: Which you'll be able to access through the CMS admin section. 11:47 < quaid> once that desire took hold, the task was undone and we still don't have notes published for Alpha. 11:47 < quaid> nor a method for e.g. Jesse to add last minute information and not have to wait 24 hours for all the people and pieces to align. 11:48 -!- adamw [n=AdamW at redhat/adamw] has left #fedora-meeting ["Ex-Chat"] 11:48 < jjmcd> I gotta admit, I don't see the value for alpha 11:48 < stickster> Ah, there's the rub. If there's no change freeze in place significantly before release day, this gets almost impossible for someone. 11:48 < quaid> I get that we like the idea of prettier notes, but I think it's too late for Alpha, maybe do it for Beta. 11:49 < jjmcd> But I see enormous value in a routine, automatic DocBook version of what is currently in the wiki, so that when we finally do make the published version, there are no surprises. 11:49 < stickster> quaid: Then I would say we should add a task to the Docs schedule which is a one-sheet content freeze. 11:49 < quaid> but I'm not the hammer no more to say, "Forget about it," and I don't want to be discouraging where I see challenges due to myopia. 11:49 < stickster> (as well as a conversion and publication task for the Beta relnotes one-sheet) 11:50 < stickster> Sparks should probably address this, then. 11:50 < quaid> well ... if the release notes team thinks Publican-based notes are more important than up-to-date information and ease of publishing, then yes, they should do that. 11:50 < quaid> at some point, those converge and isn't an either/or anymore 11:50 < quaid> until then ... one has to reign. 11:50 < stickster> quaid: Just to be clear, I recall why we wanted to do this only for Preview and Final. 11:51 < quaid> yeah, we'll leave this for ryan and sparks to hash out. 11:51 < jjmcd> Right answer 11:51 < quaid> stickster: yeah, I know :) 11:51 < stickster> But having it out on the table openly is important so the new folks can weigh it too. 11:52 < jjmcd> I think ryanlerch envisions wiki->DocBook on the crontab, and if he can actually do that I think its great 11:52 < jjmcd> but for the one pagers, I personally don't see the point 11:52 < quaid> stickster: yeah, was trying to do that yesterday but didn't get there I reckon. 11:52 < quaid> ok, I've noted it in the summary 11:53 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :: Installation Guide status 11:53 < quaid> ke4qqq: have you begun to think about this? 11:53 < ke4qqq> ooh, me again 11:53 -!- cassmodiah [n=cass at fedora/cassmodiah] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:53 < ke4qqq> yes - and I am delinquent in seeking help 11:53 < quaid> we can talk with jlaska/adamw about IG testing again 11:53 < ke4qqq> I need to put a call out for writers 11:54 < ke4qqq> it looks like eawest may not be able to join us this time since she is rapidly becoming great with child 11:54 < stickster> I always liked the term "gravid" 11:54 < ke4qqq> so I need to find an editor as well. 11:55 < ke4qqq> that or I'll be writing a lot and begging one of you to edit 11:55 < ke4qqq> oh, gravid is a great term 11:55 < ke4qqq> but we have a week or two to start writing 11:56 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Baconz at fedora/sonarguy] has quit ["Xchat destroyed by Operating System"] 11:56 < ke4qqq> I did change the owner in the owners list so stickster doesn't get besieged with tickets 11:56 -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia at p57A2E336.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:56 < quaid> yay 11:56 < stickster> w00t 11:57 < ke4qqq> I almost did the same for danielsmw and the ug, but wanted to make sure he had a bz account first 11:57 < quaid> ke4qqq: I'll be floating a bit more this time, so I'll be able to backfill. 11:57 * stickster notes mmcgrath looking for group name info on-list. Who's on the hook for that? 11:57 < ke4qqq> cool 11:57 < ke4qqq> we provided it in channel 11:57 < stickster> Oh sweet, I'm behind. That's always good. 11:58 < stickster> It means things are moving on well without me and I can, y'know, take a nap instead. 11:58 < ke4qqq> that's what fearless project leaders are supposed to do, no? 11:58 < stickster> That and eat peeled grapes, exactly. 11:58 < jjmcd> If you were napping then you wouldnt have anything to tweet about 11:58 -!- k0k [n=k0k at fedora/k0k] has quit ["Saliendo"] 11:58 < stickster> At least, that's what I keep telling my wife. 11:59 < quaid> ok, we are about out of time 11:59 -!- mcepl [n=mcepl at 49-117-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:59 < quaid> we'll do meeting time change on list 11:59 < quaid> the other guides ... well, how about discuss those on list, too 11:59 < quaid> anthing else in the waning minute? 11:59 * quaid moving so fast he's levng ltrs behnd 12:00 -!- balor [n=balor at gimili.plus.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 12:00 * stickster +1 12:00 * stickster then moves to adjourn 12:00 < quaid> rock on 12:00 * quaid counts 12:00 < quaid> 5 12:00 < quaid> 4 12:00 < quaid> 3 12:00 < quaid> 2 12:00 < quaid> 1 12:00 < quaid> -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Thu Feb 5 00:17:10 2009 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2009 16:17:10 -0800 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet In-Reply-To: <4988F41F.8050700@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090203185819.GE28565@localhost.localdomain> <4988F41F.8050700@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1233793030.11724.84.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> On Wed, 2009-02-04 at 07:19 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Hi Doc'ers, > > > > Two questions regarding the Fedora 11 Alpha release notes one-sheet, > > located here: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Alpha_release_notes > > > > * Who's leading the charge to get it finished? > > I am > > > * What if anything remains to be done for Thursday's release? > > Done (almost). Only thing we might need to add is a brief intro to what > Fedora is what we expect out of the alpha release, maybe at the end. Not > sure that is necessary still. Thoughts? I started contributing after the F10 Alpha, so forgive my disorientation. Is the goal for the Alpha relnotes[1] to be as close to complete as possible? A snapshot up to this point? If so, why isn't it based off the page[2] which transcludes all the current beats? There are beats updated for F11 which aren't included on "one-sheet". I do realize there are cutoffs and deadlines for moving content around. I just had the impression last time that content moved through the pipeline quickly/automagically after being updated in a beat. I could be deluded though (I know Karsten worked his butt off). If only the text on this one-sheet page[1] is going to go into creating the static end result[3], it seems it might be helpful to users if we at least link from this one-sheet page to the more complete (albeit inconsistent at this early stage) Beats in progress jumbo page[2]. /me still stubbornly thinks of the wiki content as the end result rather than a way point. I realize that isn't practical for L10N though. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Alpha_release_notes [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats see bottom [3] http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/alpharelnotes/ -- Dale Bewley - Unix Administrator - Shields Library - UC Davis GPG: 0xB098A0F3 0D5A 9AEB 43F4 F84C 7EFD 1753 064D 2583 B098 A0F3 From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Feb 5 00:32:22 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 19:32:22 -0500 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet References: <20090203185819.GE28565@localhost.localdomain><4988F41F.8050700@fedoraproject.org> <1233793030.11724.84.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <583F8ADD0E394AFD9F27714695095883@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Bewley" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:17 PM Subject: Re: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet > Is the goal for the Alpha relnotes[1] to be as close to complete as > possible? A snapshot up to this point? If so, why isn't it based off the > page[2] which transcludes all the current beats? There are beats updated > for F11 which aren't included on "one-sheet". Alpha and beta relnotes are only the highlights. On my small beats it looks as if I will have around 100 changed packages. How are you going to describe that on one page? > I do realize there are cutoffs and deadlines for moving content around. > I just had the impression last time that content moved through the > pipeline quickly/automagically after being updated in a beat. I could be > deluded though (I know Karsten worked his butt off). Karsten and Paul both. My read is that the process is pretty painful, but for 10 (and 11) not so bad because it wasn't my problem! > /me still stubbornly thinks of the wiki content as the end result rather > than a way point. I realize that isn't practical for L10N though. It really should be pretty close, although I know I was responsible for some of Paul's frustration with 10. The only real difference should be a little formatting, especially if we can get that outline straight. If Ryan can pull off this periodic translation he wants to do, then we will be able to see the result a lot better, and hopefully avoid a lot of last minute pain. --McD From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 5 06:32:51 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:32:51 -0800 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet In-Reply-To: <1233793030.11724.84.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> References: <20090203185819.GE28565@localhost.localdomain> <4988F41F.8050700@fedoraproject.org> <1233793030.11724.84.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <20090205063251.GU10000@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 04:17:10PM -0800, Dale Bewley wrote: > Is the goal for the Alpha relnotes[1] to be as close to complete as > possible? A snapshot up to this point? If so, why isn't it based off the > page[2] which transcludes all the current beats? There are beats updated > for F11 which aren't included on "one-sheet". Here's the quick history. We used to do a full conversion from wiki to XML for Alpha and Beta. We included time for translation. There were almost no positive effects we could detect, but the list of negatives was big: * Lots of churn after Alpha and Beta; l10n wasted a lot of time translating content that got thrown away a week later. * More effort to keep the churning wiki content in sync with the XML once converted. Heartache and grief. * Increased complexity lead to more mistakes, missed deadlines, and distraught people. * Putting more humans in the path from "this needs to be in the release notes for the Alpha" and "people can now read this important release note." Content for the release notes for the Alpha and Beta is often arriving at the last minute. There are lots of ways those problems could be solved and still do a conversion from wiki to XML. First, don't bother having them translated. Second, have automagic between the wiki and XML. Third, have a tightly woven schedule that everyone understands. Fourth, use automagic + CMS to make it possible for content to be pushed at the last minute. Unfortunately, we don't have any of those save the first. I recommend we keep the one-sheet as-is for Alpha and Beta until Fedora 12; we need tools, processes, and experience in place to make it not come to bloodshed and tears. :) > I do realize there are cutoffs and deadlines for moving content around. > I just had the impression last time that content moved through the > pipeline quickly/automagically after being updated in a beat. I could be > deluded though (I know Karsten worked his butt off). This was only for the Preview Release and forward; that is when we did the conversion and manually kept content in sync. > If only the text on this one-sheet page[1] is going to go into creating > the static end result[3], it seems it might be helpful to users if we at > least link from this one-sheet page to the more complete (albeit > inconsistent at this early stage) Beats in progress jumbo page[2]. It could be interesting to link to the Beats at this point; they are much cleaner than usual for this part of the release cycle. > /me still stubbornly thinks of the wiki content as the end result rather > than a way point. I realize that isn't practical for L10N though. It's more than that, but it's all problems that can be solved by computers. Here is some capture of the process as how it has been to this point: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Process#The_Process - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 5 06:38:02 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 4 Feb 2009 22:38:02 -0800 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet In-Reply-To: <671a617b0902031529w405ba962q765b38440897cf86@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090203185819.GE28565@localhost.localdomain> <671a617b0902031529w405ba962q765b38440897cf86@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090205063802.GV10000@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 09:29:32AM +1000, ryan lerch wrote: > i just did a quick conversion of the alpha release notes into > publican. a built copy of the html-single can be viewed here: > > http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/alpharelnotes/ > > there is also a tarball of the source up there as well: > http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/Alpha_Release_Notes.tar.gz This is great; can we push the build to the git repo at fedorahosted.org/release-notes? (I'm still convinced that we cannot sanely do more than a one-sheet via the wiki at this point, but I'm also the curmudgeon with myopia. If you all are aware of the challenges and ready to handle them where it comes to maintaining an early conversion, that's awesome.) One thing we could be doing at this point with your build is testing how it integrates in to the fedora-release-notes package. If you'd like to post the Alpha notes on docs.fedoraproject.org and link to it from the wiki page, we can do that easily. Request access to the group 'cvs-fedora' and I'll show you how to make it happen directly yourself. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 5 11:18:52 2009 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:18:52 +0000 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine Message-ID: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I've only partially been following the discussions about the new CMS, but have a question/idea. A few of the Fedora News team are interested in helping me to continue with the creation of a "Fedora Magazine" site, along the lines of Red Hat Magazine. One of the major issues in realising this over the last year has been getting the infrastructure set-up, and in a recent discussion we wondered about sharing in the fruits of your labour (and even helping a little bit :p) and possibly taking advantage of any CMS instance you create. Is this plausible? Jon From simon at zikula.org Thu Feb 5 11:37:08 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:37:08 -0000 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <004101c98786$178e77f0$46ab67d0$@org> Jon, >From my perspective (I'm the Zikula guy) if you can let me know what sort of requirements you might have I can give you an idea about how that might sit with Zikula's capabilities. How it fits in with the overall infrastructure/CMS use/roll out plan is not my area, so I'll defer to someone who knows. Simon > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-docs-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora-docs-list- > bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Jonathan Roberts > Sent: 05 February 2009 11:19 > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine > > Hi, > > I've only partially been following the discussions about the new CMS, > but have a question/idea. > > A few of the Fedora News team are interested in helping me to continue > with the creation of a "Fedora Magazine" site, along the lines of Red > Hat Magazine. One of the major issues in realising this over the last > year has been getting the infrastructure set-up, and in a recent > discussion we wondered about sharing in the fruits of your labour (and > even helping a little bit :p) and possibly taking advantage of any CMS > instance you create. > > Is this plausible? > > Jon > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.17/1932 - Release Date: > 02/03/09 07:57:00 From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Feb 5 13:05:58 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 08:05:58 -0500 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Jon, I feel that we are able to accommodate you into the CMS without any big problems. David Nalley is heading up that project from the Docs side and would be able to help you get acquainted with Zikula. Simon is from Zikula and helping us get everything setup and maintained (we are still in a testing phase) and should be able to answer any technical questions you have. Do you have any specific needs or requirements for the CMS? -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Leader Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP: sparks at fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Roberts Reply-to: For participants of the Documentation Project To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:18:52 +0000 Hi, I've only partially been following the discussions about the new CMS, but have a question/idea. A few of the Fedora News team are interested in helping me to continue with the creation of a "Fedora Magazine" site, along the lines of Red Hat Magazine. One of the major issues in realising this over the last year has been getting the infrastructure set-up, and in a recent discussion we wondered about sharing in the fruits of your labour (and even helping a little bit :p) and possibly taking advantage of any CMS instance you create. Is this plausible? Jon -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Thu Feb 5 13:24:09 2009 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:24:09 +0800 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1233840249.3507.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 11:18 +0000, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > Hi, > > I've only partially been following the discussions about the new CMS, > but have a question/idea. > > A few of the Fedora News team are interested in helping me to continue > with the creation of a "Fedora Magazine" site, along the lines of Red > Hat Magazine. One of the major issues in realising this over the last > year has been getting the infrastructure set-up, and in a recent > discussion we wondered about sharing in the fruits of your labour (and > even helping a little bit :p) and possibly taking advantage of any CMS > instance you create. > > Is this plausible? > > Jon > I just have to comment and say, this is very exciting! The idea of Fedora Magazine would be great! And using the new CMS is just a bonus. ________________________________________________________________________ Basil Mohamed Gohar abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org www.basilgohar.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 5 13:33:53 2009 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:33:53 +0000 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <635d8d560902050533q27885446w61a2891202bc5421@mail.gmail.com> 2009/2/5 Eric Christensen : > Jon, > I feel that we are able to accommodate you into the CMS without any big > problems. David Nalley is heading up that project from the Docs side > and would be able to help you get acquainted with Zikula. Simon is from > Zikula and helping us get everything setup and maintained (we are still > in a testing phase) and should be able to answer any technical questions > you have. Thanks for the great response from you both, very encouraging :) It's awesome that Simon is helping out so much, as setup and maintenance were the major obstacles we faced in getting a WP-MU/Lyceum setup installed. > > Do you have any specific needs or requirements for the CMS? At the very least we need a kind of blogging platform, and ideally it would have the capacity to support multiple roles such as writer and editor with different permissions assigned to both. The second part of that is less critical as we could always fudge it by collaborating in Gobby/Wiki and then having a couple of people push to the blog later. Is Zikula capable of handling this? Cheers, Jon From a.badger at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 17:02:13 2009 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 09:02:13 -0800 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <004101c98786$178e77f0$46ab67d0$@org> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <004101c98786$178e77f0$46ab67d0$@org> Message-ID: <498B1B95.8000603@gmail.com> Simon Birtwistle wrote: > Jon, > >>From my perspective (I'm the Zikula guy) if you can let me know what sort of > requirements you might have I can give you an idea about how that might sit > with Zikula's capabilities. > > How it fits in with the overall infrastructure/CMS use/roll out plan is not > my area, so I'll defer to someone who knows. > From an infrastructure standpoint, the less unique services we're running, the better. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From simon at zikula.org Thu Feb 5 17:21:50 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:21:50 -0000 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <635d8d560902050533q27885446w61a2891202bc5421@mail.gmail.com> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <635d8d560902050533q27885446w61a2891202bc5421@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <027c01c987b6$3bac1220$b3043660$@org> > At the very least we need a kind of blogging platform, and ideally it > would have the capacity to support multiple roles such as writer and > editor with different permissions assigned to both. The second part of > that is less critical as we could always fudge it by collaborating in > Gobby/Wiki and then having a couple of people push to the blog later. > > Is Zikula capable of handling this? Sounds like exactly what the docs project wants (with blogging as an addition). If you can find someone to package the extra modules we'll need I see no reason why we can't set up a test instance for this as well - though initially I'd prefer to focus on getting the docs site up and running. Simon From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 5 17:32:55 2009 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 17:32:55 +0000 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <027c01c987b6$3bac1220$b3043660$@org> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <635d8d560902050533q27885446w61a2891202bc5421@mail.gmail.com> <027c01c987b6$3bac1220$b3043660$@org> Message-ID: <635d8d560902050932k7c9bb687q334b3e043d0cbd6d@mail.gmail.com> 2009/2/5 Simon Birtwistle : >> At the very least we need a kind of blogging platform, and ideally it >> would have the capacity to support multiple roles such as writer and >> editor with different permissions assigned to both. The second part of >> that is less critical as we could always fudge it by collaborating in >> Gobby/Wiki and then having a couple of people push to the blog later. >> >> Is Zikula capable of handling this? > > Sounds like exactly what the docs project wants (with blogging as an > addition). If you can find someone to package the extra modules we'll need > I see no reason why we can't set up a test instance for this as well - > though initially I'd prefer to focus on getting the docs site up and > running. Point me in the direction of the modules that will be needed, and I'll see if I can find anyone/package them myself. Having a look on the Zikula home page now. Jon > > Simon > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 5 17:57:25 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:57:25 -0500 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <635d8d560902050932k7c9bb687q334b3e043d0cbd6d@mail.gmail.com> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <635d8d560902050533q27885446w61a2891202bc5421@mail.gmail.com> <027c01c987b6$3bac1220$b3043660$@org> <635d8d560902050932k7c9bb687q334b3e043d0cbd6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Jonathan Roberts wrote: > 2009/2/5 Simon Birtwistle : >>> At the very least we need a kind of blogging platform, and ideally it >>> would have the capacity to support multiple roles such as writer and >>> editor with different permissions assigned to both. The second part of >>> that is less critical as we could always fudge it by collaborating in >>> Gobby/Wiki and then having a couple of people push to the blog later. >>> >>> Is Zikula capable of handling this? >> >> Sounds like exactly what the docs project wants (with blogging as an >> addition). If you can find someone to package the extra modules we'll need >> I see no reason why we can't set up a test instance for this as well - >> though initially I'd prefer to focus on getting the docs site up and >> running. > > Point me in the direction of the modules that will be needed, and I'll > see if I can find anyone/package them myself. > > Having a look on the Zikula home page now. > > Jon >> >> Simon >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Jon - We'll get the modules that need to be packaged listed on the wiki shortly. (by my recollection there are 8-10 of them now) and we'll glad let you lend a hand there. From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Feb 5 18:33:44 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 13:33:44 -0500 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <635d8d560902050533q27885446w61a2891202bc5421@mail.gmail.com> <027c01c987b6$3bac1220$b3043660$@org> <635d8d560902050932k7c9bb687q334b3e043d0cbd6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1233858824.3374.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 12:57 -0500, David Nalley wrote: > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 12:32 PM, Jonathan Roberts > wrote: > > 2009/2/5 Simon Birtwistle : > >>> At the very least we need a kind of blogging platform, and ideally it > >>> would have the capacity to support multiple roles such as writer and > >>> editor with different permissions assigned to both. The second part of > >>> that is less critical as we could always fudge it by collaborating in > >>> Gobby/Wiki and then having a couple of people push to the blog later. > >>> > >>> Is Zikula capable of handling this? > >> > >> Sounds like exactly what the docs project wants (with blogging as an > >> addition). If you can find someone to package the extra modules we'll need > >> I see no reason why we can't set up a test instance for this as well - > >> though initially I'd prefer to focus on getting the docs site up and > >> running. > > > > Point me in the direction of the modules that will be needed, and I'll > > see if I can find anyone/package them myself. > > > > Having a look on the Zikula home page now. > > > > Jon > >> > >> Simon > > > > Jon - > > We'll get the modules that need to be packaged listed on the wiki > shortly. (by my recollection there are 8-10 of them now) and we'll > glad let you lend a hand there. > David. I'm wondering if we can do what he needs without actually installing more modules. Does he need blogging capabilities or the capabilities that we are already planning on using for Docs? Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Feb 5 19:26:03 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:26:03 -0500 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet In-Reply-To: <583F8ADD0E394AFD9F27714695095883@Aidan> References: <1233793030.11724.84.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> <583F8ADD0E394AFD9F27714695095883@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090205192603.GT23559@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 07:32:22PM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Bewley" > > To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" > > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2009 7:17 PM > Subject: Re: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet > > >> Is the goal for the Alpha relnotes[1] to be as close to complete as >> possible? A snapshot up to this point? If so, why isn't it based off the >> page[2] which transcludes all the current beats? There are beats updated >> for F11 which aren't included on "one-sheet". > > Alpha and beta relnotes are only the highlights. On my small beats it > looks as if I will have around 100 changed packages. How are you going to > describe that on one page? I'd hope we're not summarizing 100+ changed packages on any beat, right? That would seem like overkill to me. Off the top of my head I can't think of a justification for telling people about any specific package that wasn't widely used and had changed substantially enough to be notable. I think last release cycle I removed that information from one of the beats, by general consensus, because it differed so much from the way all the other beats worked. For general package updates, someone could always run the script for diff'ing the repos -- I don't recall its name or where it's kept, but I know it exists -- and post that information somewhere suitable on the wiki. >> I do realize there are cutoffs and deadlines for moving content around. >> I just had the impression last time that content moved through the >> pipeline quickly/automagically after being updated in a beat. I could be >> deluded though (I know Karsten worked his butt off). > > Karsten and Paul both. My read is that the process is pretty painful, but > for 10 (and 11) not so bad because it wasn't my problem! Once the initial conversion to XML was done for a Preview Release, changes tended to be easy to do. A team of two could usually get them done in an evening or less. The procedure would consist of looking at the history of each beat page, seeing there were revisions since the port to XML, then looking at the total diff to see the changes. On occasion that would expose another quick edit needed for style or grammar, which we'd make. Then we'd look at the new diff including our changes, and just edit it into the XML, commit, etc. After all that is done, we'd make the new POT, update the PO, and push everything out. >> /me still stubbornly thinks of the wiki content as the end result rather >> than a way point. I realize that isn't practical for L10N though. > > It really should be pretty close, although I know I was responsible for > some of Paul's frustration with 10. The only real difference should be a > little formatting, especially if we can get that outline straight. Really? I don't recall any particular frustration with you! Either I have a short memory, or all's well that ends well. ;-) > If Ryan can pull off this periodic translation he wants to do, then we > will be able to see the result a lot better, and hopefully avoid a lot of > last minute pain. We eschewed doing a big publication for Alpha or Beta because there were so many details still in flux that people outside the Docs team wanted the flexibility of adding or revising content quickly on the wiki for the days immediately around the release date. If it's not too much of a pain for someone to keep up with as far as republishing, great. We found it too demanding given our resources at the time, but it's good to see that things are evolving to the point where it's not as much of a concern! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 5 19:37:17 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:37:17 -0800 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <1233858824.3374.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <635d8d560902050533q27885446w61a2891202bc5421@mail.gmail.com> <027c01c987b6$3bac1220$b3043660$@org> <635d8d560902050932k7c9bb687q334b3e043d0cbd6d@mail.gmail.com> <1233858824.3374.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090205193717.GD4142@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 01:33:44PM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > I'm wondering if we can do what he needs without actually installing > more modules. Does he need blogging capabilities or the capabilities > that we are already planning on using for Docs? (Since I've been involved in Fedora Magazine discussions on-and-off, I'll answer from my recollection.) Journal-like (blog) capabilities are the first and main requirement for Fedora Magazine; even the writer/editor capabilities could be manual processes (for example, I write and don't push live; then I tell Jon it's ready; he reads and publishes it.) The blogging is because that is the way F'Mag wants to publish - often and about a wider selection of stories. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 5 19:40:51 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:40:51 -0800 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 08:05:58AM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > Jon, > I feel that we are able to accommodate you into the CMS without any big > problems. Just wanted to suggest a bit of clarity ... The Fedora Magazine CMS instance would be a separate running instance from the Docs CMS, right? From a resource stand point, this means the Zikula team needs to be prepared to maintain a second instance for the Magazine. Other than the addition of the blog module, I'd reckon the architecture and integration would look the same -- some groups in FAS that map to permissions/roles within the Zikula instance. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 5 19:44:04 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 11:44:04 -0800 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet In-Reply-To: <20090205192603.GT23559@localhost.localdomain> References: <1233793030.11724.84.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> <583F8ADD0E394AFD9F27714695095883@Aidan> <20090205192603.GT23559@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090205194404.GF4142@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 02:26:03PM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, Feb 04, 2009 at 07:32:22PM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > > > > It really should be pretty close, although I know I was responsible for > > some of Paul's frustration with 10. The only real difference should be a > > little formatting, especially if we can get that outline straight. > > Really? I don't recall any particular frustration with you! Either I > have a short memory, or all's well that ends well. ;-) I think he is referring to the beat you mentioned earlier in this email, where you pulled out package information content that could be found with 'rpm -qi' or 'yum info'. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Feb 5 19:54:26 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 14:54:26 -0500 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet References: <1233793030.11724.84.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu><583F8ADD0E394AFD9F27714695095883@Aidan> <20090205192603.GT23559@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <17BED9B024C6482D87CEEDBF38EBC016@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:26 PM Subject: Re: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet > I'd hope we're not summarizing 100+ changed packages on any beat, > right? That would seem like overkill to me. I hope not. However, the Amateur Radio beat, for example, has 35 changed/new packages. Some of the changes are minor, but quite a few are totally new packages, some very interesting, and a large number of the changes are very significant, at least to folks who use those packages. I forsee over 70 changes in Devtools. Many require action on the part of the user so really need to be there. In that case, though, I think I can do a lot of breaking up into smaller groups. Actually, I kind of did that on the AR apps, too. But after I see what they all look like i will certainly do some winowing or perhaps grouping. Last time we had big bunches of app descriptions. That was just an error. On changes, though, I'm a little torn. A long list of changes is pretty unexciting to read through, but if you are the person affected by that change, it could be critical. As a minimum you need a heads-up on the change and a link to the upstream's release notes, if such a thing exists. Unfortunately, it seems like in a lot of cases the upstream release notes are nonexistent or very weak, and it takes some detective work to sort out what changed. I feel bad about leaving that to the reader, but I don't want to end up with an encyclopedia, either. So we play the balancing act. --McD From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 5 20:45:14 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 12:45:14 -0800 Subject: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet In-Reply-To: <17BED9B024C6482D87CEEDBF38EBC016@Aidan> References: <20090205192603.GT23559@localhost.localdomain> <17BED9B024C6482D87CEEDBF38EBC016@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090205204514.GH4142@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 02:54:26PM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" > > To: > Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 2:26 PM > Subject: Re: F11 Alpha Release Notes one-sheet > >> I'd hope we're not summarizing 100+ changed packages on any beat, >> right? That would seem like overkill to me. > > I hope not. However, the Amateur Radio beat, for example, has 35 > changed/new packages. Some of the changes are minor, but quite a few are > totally new packages, some very interesting, and a large number of the > changes are very significant, at least to folks who use those packages. I was thinking of that as a bar -- ideally the beat writer knows the audience well enough to adjust content. So, for the average desktop user and related beat, we don't want to see all the GNOME/KDE package churn. But for something technical and more niche such as amateur radio (or even developers), the bar should be different. > On changes, though, I'm a little torn. A long list of changes is pretty > unexciting to read through, but if you are the person affected by that > change, it could be critical. As a minimum you need a heads-up on the > change and a link to the upstream's release notes, if such a thing > exists. Unfortunately, it seems like in a lot of cases the upstream > release notes are nonexistent or very weak, and it takes some detective > work to sort out what changed. I feel bad about leaving that to the > reader, but I don't want to end up with an encyclopedia, either. > > So we play the balancing act. Agreed, we cannot be in the game of doing upstream research; the real goal is to identify the Fedora intersection. Your style certainly gives enough information for people to work from; the niche audience knows how to find more information when they care to. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Feb 5 22:07:26 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2009 17:07:26 -0500 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 11:40 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 08:05:58AM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > > Jon, > > I feel that we are able to accommodate you into the CMS without any big > > problems. > > Just wanted to suggest a bit of clarity ... > > The Fedora Magazine CMS instance would be a separate running instance > from the Docs CMS, right? From a resource stand point, this means the > Zikula team needs to be prepared to maintain a second instance for the > Magazine. > > Other than the addition of the blog module, I'd reckon the > architecture and integration would look the same -- some groups in FAS > that map to permissions/roles within the Zikula instance. > > - Karsten Karsten, I thought we would be able to use a single instance and have different domain names point at different "groups". Have multiple instances to do the same thing seems a waste, IMO. -- Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From simon at zikula.org Thu Feb 5 22:33:20 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 22:33:20 -0000 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <03a701c987e1$bffd2700$3ff77500$@org> > Karsten, > I thought we would be able to use a single instance and have different > domain names point at different "groups". Have multiple instances to > do the same thing seems a waste, IMO. There are a couple of technical issues with single-instance. 1. Caching strategies - will certainly be different for the almost entirely static docs/www subdomains to the more user-oriented docs site. 2. Zikula doesn't currently support subdomains running on the same set of files (though it's easily achieved through symlinks) - and would they use the same database, or a different database? If you use different databases with the same files then upgrades become a hassle 3. Striping/server separation - e.g. if the magazine / docs / wherever else are on different physical servers for load or any other reason. 4. Rolling out new features / fixing problems in general - you don't want a problem adding a new blogging module on the magazine site to take your www offline through some freak accident. It's something that requires some thought, because doing it wrong makes a big mess to clean up later. Make sense? Simon From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 6 03:55:40 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 19:55:40 -0800 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <03a701c987e1$bffd2700$3ff77500$@org> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <03a701c987e1$bffd2700$3ff77500$@org> Message-ID: <20090206035540.GK4142@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 10:33:20PM -0000, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > > Karsten, > > I thought we would be able to use a single instance and have different > > domain names point at different "groups". Have multiple instances to > > do the same thing seems a waste, IMO. IIRC, we discussed this earlier in the process, whether Zikula could handle virtualhosting-like situations. In general, if one monolithing framework can handle the multiple slices and serving of sub-domains, that's fine with me. However, the way I understand our Infrastructure to work, it may not be much more burden to run multiple instances. Puppet is going to manage configurations regardless, etc. > There are a couple of technical issues with single-instance. > > 1. Caching strategies - will certainly be different for the almost entirely > static docs/www subdomains to the more user-oriented docs site. This is true, although I thought we cached by sub-domain so it could do it separately if the Zikula instance were serving different sub-domains. > 2. Zikula doesn't currently support subdomains running on the same set of > files (though it's easily achieved through symlinks) - and would they use > the same database, or a different database? If you use different databases > with the same files then upgrades become a hassle Interesting. For the reasons I say below, I would guess different. > 3. Striping/server separation - e.g. if the magazine / docs / wherever else > are on different physical servers for load or any other reason. IIUC, this is true -- Infrastructure can more effectively scale sub-domains that are unique to the host. > 4. Rolling out new features / fixing problems in general - you don't want a > problem adding a new blogging module on the magazine site to take your www > offline through some freak accident. I'm also not clear if there is an intersect between the two content types. Is there ever going to be a reason to have content migrate from magazine.fp.o to docs.fp.o? Are we going to share processes and workflows? It doesn't seem like it to me right now, although that might be a bridge we want to cross in the future. This comes up similarly for the knowledgebase idea. Is e.g. kbase.fedoraproject.org a separate CMS or a part of docs.fp.o? Since the content types are again different (very short, focused, versioned articles v. longer guides maintained across versions), it's probable that having the kbase and docs CMS in the same instance wouldn't matter. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ccurran at redhat.com Fri Feb 6 06:16:24 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:16:24 +1000 Subject: Improving the documentation process Message-ID: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> Here are some of my thoughts on how we can make fedora-docs a better place. First off I think we would benefit from a simpler docs model which simulates the documentation model of real world publishing. For instance instead of this entire page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow We: 1. Use the wiki as a wiki. Wikis are great for short howtos and explanations. However, they quickly become unwieldy when trying to do anything else. Sure you can play Zork on uncyclopedia but that isn't the purpose behind a wiki. 2. Replace the old publishing workflow with this: 1. Develop content in small groups, pulling useful howtos and snippits from the wiki and expanding them. Correct and copy edit wiki articles to help development. For small stand alone sections, write on the wiki first and get them reviewed. Or do none of those things and just write in Docbook XML. after all, this is open source and we are all about choice, do what you want as long as you contribute :) fedoraproject.org can host the XML in your favourite repository system. 2. Write a daemon that publishes Docbook XML using publican to fedoraproject.org/docs 3. ??? 4. Profit All comments appreciated. Chris From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Fri Feb 6 06:23:15 2009 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 14:23:15 +0800 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <20090206035540.GK4142@calliope.phig.org> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <03a701c987e1$bffd2700$3ff77500$@org> <20090206035540.GK4142@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1233901395.3445.85.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 19:55 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 10:33:20PM -0000, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > > > Karsten, > > > I thought we would be able to use a single instance and have different > > > domain names point at different "groups". Have multiple instances to > > > do the same thing seems a waste, IMO. > > IIRC, we discussed this earlier in the process, whether Zikula could > handle virtualhosting-like situations. In general, if one monolithing > framework can handle the multiple slices and serving of sub-domains, > that's fine with me. > > However, the way I understand our Infrastructure to work, it may not > be much more burden to run multiple instances. Puppet is going to > manage configurations regardless, etc. > > > There are a couple of technical issues with single-instance. > > > > 1. Caching strategies - will certainly be different for the almost entirely > > static docs/www subdomains to the more user-oriented docs site. > > This is true, although I thought we cached by sub-domain so it could > do it separately if the Zikula instance were serving different > sub-domains. > > > 2. Zikula doesn't currently support subdomains running on the same set of > > files (though it's easily achieved through symlinks) - and would they use > > the same database, or a different database? If you use different databases > > with the same files then upgrades become a hassle > > Interesting. For the reasons I say below, I would guess different. > > > 3. Striping/server separation - e.g. if the magazine / docs / wherever else > > are on different physical servers for load or any other reason. > > IIUC, this is true -- Infrastructure can more effectively scale > sub-domains that are unique to the host. > > > 4. Rolling out new features / fixing problems in general - you don't want a > > problem adding a new blogging module on the magazine site to take your www > > offline through some freak accident. > > I'm also not clear if there is an intersect between the two content > types. Is there ever going to be a reason to have content migrate > from magazine.fp.o to docs.fp.o? Are we going to share processes and > workflows? > > It doesn't seem like it to me right now, although that might be a > bridge we want to cross in the future. > > This comes up similarly for the knowledgebase idea. Is > e.g. kbase.fedoraproject.org a separate CMS or a part of docs.fp.o? > > Since the content types are again different (very short, focused, > versioned articles v. longer guides maintained across versions), it's > probable that having the kbase and docs CMS in the same instance > wouldn't matter. > Are separate domains/subdomains really necessary? Perhaps (and I am not sure if Zikula already supports this) we can put "projects" under a URL hierarchy rather than individual domains or subdomains. I know that one of the slowest things I experience on a daily basis is having to look up a new domain or subdomain name. ________________________________________________________________________ Basil Mohamed Gohar abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org www.basilgohar.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From herlo1 at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 06:41:32 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:41:32 -0700 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <1233901395.3445.85.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <03a701c987e1$bffd2700$3ff77500$@org> <20090206035540.GK4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233901395.3445.85.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Basil Mohamed Gohar wrote: > On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 19:55 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: >> On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 10:33:20PM -0000, Simon Birtwistle wrote: >> > > Karsten, >> > > I thought we would be able to use a single instance and have different >> > > domain names point at different "groups". Have multiple instances to >> > > do the same thing seems a waste, IMO. >> >> IIRC, we discussed this earlier in the process, whether Zikula could >> handle virtualhosting-like situations. In general, if one monolithing >> framework can handle the multiple slices and serving of sub-domains, >> that's fine with me. >> >> However, the way I understand our Infrastructure to work, it may not >> be much more burden to run multiple instances. Puppet is going to >> manage configurations regardless, etc. >> >> > There are a couple of technical issues with single-instance. >> > >> > 1. Caching strategies - will certainly be different for the almost entirely >> > static docs/www subdomains to the more user-oriented docs site. >> >> This is true, although I thought we cached by sub-domain so it could >> do it separately if the Zikula instance were serving different >> sub-domains. >> >> > 2. Zikula doesn't currently support subdomains running on the same set of >> > files (though it's easily achieved through symlinks) - and would they use >> > the same database, or a different database? If you use different databases >> > with the same files then upgrades become a hassle >> >> Interesting. For the reasons I say below, I would guess different. >> >> > 3. Striping/server separation - e.g. if the magazine / docs / wherever else >> > are on different physical servers for load or any other reason. >> >> IIUC, this is true -- Infrastructure can more effectively scale >> sub-domains that are unique to the host. >> >> > 4. Rolling out new features / fixing problems in general - you don't want a >> > problem adding a new blogging module on the magazine site to take your www >> > offline through some freak accident. >> >> I'm also not clear if there is an intersect between the two content >> types. Is there ever going to be a reason to have content migrate >> from magazine.fp.o to docs.fp.o? Are we going to share processes and >> workflows? >> >> It doesn't seem like it to me right now, although that might be a >> bridge we want to cross in the future. >> >> This comes up similarly for the knowledgebase idea. Is >> e.g. kbase.fedoraproject.org a separate CMS or a part of docs.fp.o? >> >> Since the content types are again different (very short, focused, >> versioned articles v. longer guides maintained across versions), it's >> probable that having the kbase and docs CMS in the same instance >> wouldn't matter. >> > > Are separate domains/subdomains really necessary? Perhaps (and I am not > sure if Zikula already supports this) we can put "projects" under a URL > hierarchy rather than individual domains or subdomains. I know that one > of the slowest things I experience on a daily basis is having to look up > a new domain or subdomain name. > They are not required, but are a really good idea. It provides logical separation when thinking about what a particular application (in this case CMS) does. If we keep the same subdomain for all the structures, we'd logically separate on uri's. Seems more logical to me to have it be domains/subdomains as the logical divide. Cheers, Clint From herlo1 at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 06:42:23 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2009 23:42:23 -0700 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <03a701c987e1$bffd2700$3ff77500$@org> <20090206035540.GK4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233901395.3445.85.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:41 PM, Clint Savage wrote: > On Thu, Feb 5, 2009 at 11:23 PM, Basil Mohamed Gohar > wrote: >> On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 19:55 -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: >>> On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 10:33:20PM -0000, Simon Birtwistle wrote: >>> > > Karsten, >>> > > I thought we would be able to use a single instance and have different >>> > > domain names point at different "groups". Have multiple instances to >>> > > do the same thing seems a waste, IMO. >>> >>> IIRC, we discussed this earlier in the process, whether Zikula could >>> handle virtualhosting-like situations. In general, if one monolithing >>> framework can handle the multiple slices and serving of sub-domains, >>> that's fine with me. >>> >>> However, the way I understand our Infrastructure to work, it may not >>> be much more burden to run multiple instances. Puppet is going to >>> manage configurations regardless, etc. >>> >>> > There are a couple of technical issues with single-instance. >>> > >>> > 1. Caching strategies - will certainly be different for the almost entirely >>> > static docs/www subdomains to the more user-oriented docs site. >>> >>> This is true, although I thought we cached by sub-domain so it could >>> do it separately if the Zikula instance were serving different >>> sub-domains. >>> >>> > 2. Zikula doesn't currently support subdomains running on the same set of >>> > files (though it's easily achieved through symlinks) - and would they use >>> > the same database, or a different database? If you use different databases >>> > with the same files then upgrades become a hassle >>> >>> Interesting. For the reasons I say below, I would guess different. >>> >>> > 3. Striping/server separation - e.g. if the magazine / docs / wherever else >>> > are on different physical servers for load or any other reason. >>> >>> IIUC, this is true -- Infrastructure can more effectively scale >>> sub-domains that are unique to the host. >>> >>> > 4. Rolling out new features / fixing problems in general - you don't want a >>> > problem adding a new blogging module on the magazine site to take your www >>> > offline through some freak accident. >>> >>> I'm also not clear if there is an intersect between the two content >>> types. Is there ever going to be a reason to have content migrate >>> from magazine.fp.o to docs.fp.o? Are we going to share processes and >>> workflows? >>> >>> It doesn't seem like it to me right now, although that might be a >>> bridge we want to cross in the future. >>> >>> This comes up similarly for the knowledgebase idea. Is >>> e.g. kbase.fedoraproject.org a separate CMS or a part of docs.fp.o? >>> >>> Since the content types are again different (very short, focused, >>> versioned articles v. longer guides maintained across versions), it's >>> probable that having the kbase and docs CMS in the same instance >>> wouldn't matter. >>> >> >> Are separate domains/subdomains really necessary? Perhaps (and I am not >> sure if Zikula already supports this) we can put "projects" under a URL >> hierarchy rather than individual domains or subdomains. I know that one >> of the slowest things I experience on a daily basis is having to look up >> a new domain or subdomain name. >> > > They are not required, but are a really good idea. It provides > logical separation when thinking about what a particular application > (in this case CMS) does. If we keep the same subdomain for all the > structures, we'd logically separate on uri's. Seems more logical to > me to have it be domains/subdomains as the logical divide. > > Cheers, > > Clint > Man!! I used logical a lot in that sentence, please remove a few for me. :) From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 6 08:01:45 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 00:01:45 -0800 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <03a701c987e1$bffd2700$3ff77500$@org> <20090206035540.GK4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233901395.3445.85.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090206080145.GL4142@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 11:41:32PM -0700, Clint Savage wrote: > > They are not required, but are a really good idea. It provides > logical separation when thinking about what a particular application > (in this case CMS) does. If we keep the same subdomain for all the > structures, we'd logically separate on uri's. Seems more logical to > me to have it be domains/subdomains as the logical divide. The key for me is consistency. Fedora Infrastructure and Websites teams decided on a sub-domain model some time ago. I think the real confusion is when it's a mix of sub-domain and nested folder structures. For this reason perhaps we should look at propagating wiki.fedoraproject.org instead -- as part of rebirthing it as a destination for contributors and other participants to be putting Fedora content. FWIW, the unique domain names are the ones that get me the most. I am always trying to ssh in to fedoraproject.org instead of fedorapeople.org, and recently I got crossed by separate mailman instances (is this true?) for lists.fedorahosted.org and lists.fedoraproject.org. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From jonrob at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 6 09:41:04 2009 From: jonrob at fedoraproject.org (Jonathan Roberts) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 09:41:04 +0000 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <20090206035540.GK4142@calliope.phig.org> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <03a701c987e1$bffd2700$3ff77500$@org> <20090206035540.GK4142@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <635d8d560902060141n647bfe6ey1dd920b41dafe980@mail.gmail.com> > I'm also not clear if there is an intersect between the two content > types. Is there ever going to be a reason to have content migrate > from magazine.fp.o to docs.fp.o? Are we going to share processes and > workflows? I can see that processes and workflows might be similar, but as for sharing content the most I think will ever happen is magazine.fp.o highlighting some docs content... maybe we'll run a how to feature and republish some of the material or something like that. Cheers, Jon From simon at zikula.org Fri Feb 6 09:51:43 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 09:51:43 -0000 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <635d8d560902060141n647bfe6ey1dd920b41dafe980@mail.gmail.com> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <03a701c987e1$bffd2700$3ff77500$@org> <20090206035540.GK4142@calliope.phig.org> <635d8d560902060141n647bfe6ey1dd920b41dafe980@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <008e01c98840$858218b0$90864a10$@org> > > I'm also not clear if there is an intersect between the two content > > types. Is there ever going to be a reason to have content migrate > > from magazine.fp.o to docs.fp.o? Are we going to share processes and > > workflows? > > I can see that processes and workflows might be similar, but as for > sharing content the most I think will ever happen is magazine.fp.o > highlighting some docs content... maybe we'll run a how to feature and > republish some of the material or something like that. We could categorise and have a URL structure, however if you're publishing almost entirely unrelated stuff then a separate instance is probably simpler (certainly on the access control side). The main overhead to this approach comes at upgrade/patch time, but providing our number of instances doesn't get out of control we'll be ok. From a.badger at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 21:59:03 2009 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 13:59:03 -0800 Subject: CMS + Fedora Magazine In-Reply-To: <20090206080145.GL4142@calliope.phig.org> References: <635d8d560902050318n23d499casa42c3b043bcb5466@mail.gmail.com> <1233839158.30471.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090205194051.GE4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233871646.30471.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> <03a701c987e1$bffd2700$3ff77500$@org> <20090206035540.GK4142@calliope.phig.org> <1233901395.3445.85.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090206080145.GL4142@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <498CB2A7.8090402@gmail.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, Feb 05, 2009 at 11:41:32PM -0700, Clint Savage wrote: >> They are not required, but are a really good idea. It provides >> logical separation when thinking about what a particular application >> (in this case CMS) does. If we keep the same subdomain for all the >> structures, we'd logically separate on uri's. Seems more logical to >> me to have it be domains/subdomains as the logical divide. > > The key for me is consistency. Fedora Infrastructure and Websites > teams decided on a sub-domain model some time ago. I think the real > confusion is when it's a mix of sub-domain and nested folder > structures. > > For this reason perhaps we should look at propagating > wiki.fedoraproject.org instead -- as part of rebirthing it as a > destination for contributors and other participants to be putting > Fedora content. > > FWIW, the unique domain names are the ones that get me the most. I am > always trying to ssh in to fedoraproject.org instead of > fedorapeople.org, and recently I got crossed by separate mailman > instances (is this true?) for lists.fedorahosted.org and > lists.fedoraproject.org. > Note: One technical reason to keep things on a single domain is when you want to share cookies between two sites. For instance, for a contributor to all three of: docs.fedoraproject.org/, kbase.fedoraproject.org, and magazine.fedoraproject.org you'd have to login three times, once to each site. If you had docs.fedoraproject.org/guides, docs.fedoraproject.org/kbase, and docs.fedoraproject.org/magazine you could share the cookie because they all have the same domain. An astute reader may ask why you can't share the cookie between all .fedoraproject.org domains. The answer is that this is possible but insecure in our environment. Matching that domain would also match publictest15.fedoraproject.org, for instance. Since publictest machines are running new code, test instances, and other things that could have all sorts of security holes we haven't figured out yet, it's a bad idea to be sharing authentication cookies between production machines and those. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From simon at zikula.org Fri Feb 6 22:47:35 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 22:47:35 -0000 Subject: Calendaring system? In-Reply-To: <498CAC80.2040601@gmail.com> References: <1233869407.9993.453.camel@vaio.local.net> <037801c987dc$1e6af250$5b40d6f0$@org> <1233871318.9993.560.camel@vaio.local.net> <1233948510.12681.509.camel@vaio.local.net> <498CAC80.2040601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <023201c988ac$e9ab4d40$bd01e7c0$@org> One Zikula calendar module has a variety of feeds (see http://code.zikula.org/crpcalendar/attachment/wiki/screenshots/list.png) or http://jami.cremonapalloza.org/index.php?module=crpCalendar for a live demo. It might need some template modifications for display, but you could allow users to submit events and so on by logging in with their FAS ID. However, I am sure there are better standalone solutions out there, if you're happy to maintain a separate tool. > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-infrastructure-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora- > infrastructure-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Toshio Kuratomi > Sent: 06 February 2009 21:33 > To: Fedora Infrastructure > Subject: Re: Calendaring system? > > Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 18:51 -0700, Clint Savage wrote: > > > >> Adam, > >> > >> Funny thing, I was just mentioning how it would be nice to have a > >> calendaring solution that would be able to let people pull feeds and > >> put items on the calendar for Fedora with use in FAS. I think even > >> though there's currently no solution quite as good as google > calendar > >> (or apple's iCal) in free software, there are alternatives. > >> > >> Bongo Project - http://bongo-project.org/Main_Page (formerly Hula) > >> (GPLv2) Bedework - http://www.bedework.org/bedework/ (BSD License) > >> DAViCal - http://rscds.sourceforge.net/ (GPL) > >> > >> I'm sure there are others, but I think a self-sustaining calendar > >> that could integrate with the Fedora Account System (FAS) and make > it > >> so that people can create events that could get pushed to a central > >> calendar which others might subscribe. Something like this would be > >> awesome and I'd be happy to help you get it started. Maybe one of > >> the above programs can meet our needs, or maybe we need to look into > >> something else. > > > > Thanks a lot, Clint. Actually one of our QA community guys, J?hann > > Gu?mundsson, independently suggested Bedework to me and I had a quick > > look at the web page and it looks nice. It runs in Java but I guess > > that's no problem if it works on OpenJDK, and it looks like it's nice > > and self-contained, actively developed, and seems to really work to > > implement the latest standards, so it looks like a good candidate to > me. > > I haven't looked at the others you suggested yet, but I will. > > > > I'm happy to help out as much as I can - I'm no expert in this field > - > > in the initial set up, my only concern is to make sure that this is > > something the infrastructure group will maintain over a sustained > > period, I'm just hoping that it won't fall by the wayside and stop > > working after a few months or wind up with me having to (try and) > > maintain it or something. But I'm certainly happy to help out in > > getting it up and running and fit for purpose initially. > > We have kind of a de facto no-Java standard in infrastructure. This is > partially because none of us have had good experiences running apps in > java and partially because we have noone with Java programming > experience to fix things if we need to. If you had some people to give > to us to work on maintaining the server we might be able to work out > something similar to how zikula is being run for the docs deploy. But > that doesn't sound like the case :-( > > -Toshio > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.233 / Virus Database: 270.10.18/1936 - Release Date: > 02/05/09 11:34:00 From herlo1 at gmail.com Fri Feb 6 22:56:25 2009 From: herlo1 at gmail.com (Clint Savage) Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 15:56:25 -0700 Subject: Calendaring system? In-Reply-To: <023201c988ac$e9ab4d40$bd01e7c0$@org> References: <1233869407.9993.453.camel@vaio.local.net> <037801c987dc$1e6af250$5b40d6f0$@org> <1233871318.9993.560.camel@vaio.local.net> <1233948510.12681.509.camel@vaio.local.net> <498CAC80.2040601@gmail.com> <023201c988ac$e9ab4d40$bd01e7c0$@org> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > One Zikula calendar module has a variety of feeds (see http://code.zikula.org/crpcalendar/attachment/wiki/screenshots/list.png) or http://jami.cremonapalloza.org/index.php?module=crpCalendar for a live demo. It might need some template modifications for display, but you could allow users to submit events and so on by logging in with their FAS ID. However, I am sure there are better standalone solutions out there, if you're happy to maintain a separate tool. > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: fedora-infrastructure-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora- >> infrastructure-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Toshio Kuratomi >> Sent: 06 February 2009 21:33 >> To: Fedora Infrastructure >> Subject: Re: Calendaring system? >> >> Adam Williamson wrote: >> > On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 18:51 -0700, Clint Savage wrote: >> > >> >> Adam, >> >> >> >> Funny thing, I was just mentioning how it would be nice to have a >> >> calendaring solution that would be able to let people pull feeds and >> >> put items on the calendar for Fedora with use in FAS. I think even >> >> though there's currently no solution quite as good as google >> calendar >> >> (or apple's iCal) in free software, there are alternatives. >> >> >> >> Bongo Project - http://bongo-project.org/Main_Page (formerly Hula) >> >> (GPLv2) Bedework - http://www.bedework.org/bedework/ (BSD License) >> >> DAViCal - http://rscds.sourceforge.net/ (GPL) >> >> >> >> I'm sure there are others, but I think a self-sustaining calendar >> >> that could integrate with the Fedora Account System (FAS) and make >> it >> >> so that people can create events that could get pushed to a central >> >> calendar which others might subscribe. Something like this would be >> >> awesome and I'd be happy to help you get it started. Maybe one of >> >> the above programs can meet our needs, or maybe we need to look into >> >> something else. >> > >> > Thanks a lot, Clint. Actually one of our QA community guys, J?hann >> > Gu?mundsson, independently suggested Bedework to me and I had a quick >> > look at the web page and it looks nice. It runs in Java but I guess >> > that's no problem if it works on OpenJDK, and it looks like it's nice >> > and self-contained, actively developed, and seems to really work to >> > implement the latest standards, so it looks like a good candidate to >> me. >> > I haven't looked at the others you suggested yet, but I will. >> > >> > I'm happy to help out as much as I can - I'm no expert in this field >> - >> > in the initial set up, my only concern is to make sure that this is >> > something the infrastructure group will maintain over a sustained >> > period, I'm just hoping that it won't fall by the wayside and stop >> > working after a few months or wind up with me having to (try and) >> > maintain it or something. But I'm certainly happy to help out in >> > getting it up and running and fit for purpose initially. >> >> We have kind of a de facto no-Java standard in infrastructure. This is >> partially because none of us have had good experiences running apps in >> java and partially because we have noone with Java programming >> experience to fix things if we need to. If you had some people to give >> to us to work on maintaining the server we might be able to work out >> something similar to how zikula is being run for the docs deploy. But >> that doesn't sound like the case :-( >> >> -Toshio >> Bret, I don't know, part of me wants to look at calendarserver, but I can't find what the licensing is there. It looks like maybe it's a ruby project? I looked around on the site and there's no clear link to any good information on its licensing. Simon, As far as zikula, while I think the calendaring of Zikula is great, I wonder if we really need a fully blown CMS to manage our calendaring? In this case, it seems to me that we need *just* calendaring and not much else. I'd like an easy way for people to interact with the calendar from their client applications and update the calendar. I'd also like it to only do that if they have the rights to modify calendar events for their particular group(s) in FAS. Can Zikula do that? My thought is that Zikula is more of a "do it on the server" type application and can't handle input from a calendar client using caldav (or others). Maybe it can do all of the above and more. My theory is that we need to create a wiki page with the feature set we need and get the thing that matches closest to our needs. I'd be happy to start that effort early next week. If anyone else wants to create it first, I'd be happy to help their page instead of mine. Cheers, Clint From jkeating at redhat.com Sat Feb 7 00:47:41 2009 From: jkeating at redhat.com (Jesse Keating) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 16:47:41 -0800 Subject: Calendaring system? In-Reply-To: References: <1233869407.9993.453.camel@vaio.local.net> <037801c987dc$1e6af250$5b40d6f0$@org> <1233871318.9993.560.camel@vaio.local.net> <1233948510.12681.509.camel@vaio.local.net> <498CAC80.2040601@gmail.com> <023201c988ac$e9ab4d40$bd01e7c0$@org> Message-ID: <1233967661.7493.1253.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2009-02-06 at 15:56 -0700, Clint Savage wrote: > > Bret, > > I don't know, part of me wants to look at calendarserver, but I can't > find what the licensing is there. It looks like maybe it's a ruby > project? I looked around on the site and there's no clear link to > any good information on its licensing. calendarserver appears to be a python project, and it appears to be licensed at least partly under apache 2.0 http://trac.calendarserver.org/browser/CalendarServer/trunk/LICENSE More clear info at http://trac.calendarserver.org/browser/CalendarServer/trunk/README -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom? is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Feb 7 02:04:42 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:04:42 -0500 Subject: Calendaring system? In-Reply-To: References: <1233869407.9993.453.camel@vaio.local.net> <037801c987dc$1e6af250$5b40d6f0$@org> <1233871318.9993.560.camel@vaio.local.net> <1233948510.12681.509.camel@vaio.local.net> <498CAC80.2040601@gmail.com> <023201c988ac$e9ab4d40$bd01e7c0$@org> Message-ID: <1233972282.7325.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2009-02-06 at 15:56 -0700, Clint Savage wrote: > On Fri, Feb 6, 2009 at 3:47 PM, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > > One Zikula calendar module has a variety of feeds (see http://code.zikula.org/crpcalendar/attachment/wiki/screenshots/list.png) or http://jami.cremonapalloza.org/index.php?module=crpCalendar for a live demo. It might need some template modifications for display, but you could allow users to submit events and so on by logging in with their FAS ID. However, I am sure there are better standalone solutions out there, if you're happy to maintain a separate tool. > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: fedora-infrastructure-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora- > >> infrastructure-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Toshio Kuratomi > >> Sent: 06 February 2009 21:33 > >> To: Fedora Infrastructure > >> Subject: Re: Calendaring system? > >> > >> Adam Williamson wrote: > >> > On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 18:51 -0700, Clint Savage wrote: > >> > > >> >> Adam, > >> >> > >> >> Funny thing, I was just mentioning how it would be nice to have a > >> >> calendaring solution that would be able to let people pull feeds and > >> >> put items on the calendar for Fedora with use in FAS. I think even > >> >> though there's currently no solution quite as good as google > >> calendar > >> >> (or apple's iCal) in free software, there are alternatives. > >> >> > >> >> Bongo Project - http://bongo-project.org/Main_Page (formerly Hula) > >> >> (GPLv2) Bedework - http://www.bedework.org/bedework/ (BSD License) > >> >> DAViCal - http://rscds.sourceforge.net/ (GPL) > >> >> > >> >> I'm sure there are others, but I think a self-sustaining calendar > >> >> that could integrate with the Fedora Account System (FAS) and make > >> it > >> >> so that people can create events that could get pushed to a central > >> >> calendar which others might subscribe. Something like this would be > >> >> awesome and I'd be happy to help you get it started. Maybe one of > >> >> the above programs can meet our needs, or maybe we need to look into > >> >> something else. > >> > > >> > Thanks a lot, Clint. Actually one of our QA community guys, J?hann > >> > Gu?mundsson, independently suggested Bedework to me and I had a quick > >> > look at the web page and it looks nice. It runs in Java but I guess > >> > that's no problem if it works on OpenJDK, and it looks like it's nice > >> > and self-contained, actively developed, and seems to really work to > >> > implement the latest standards, so it looks like a good candidate to > >> me. > >> > I haven't looked at the others you suggested yet, but I will. > >> > > >> > I'm happy to help out as much as I can - I'm no expert in this field > >> - > >> > in the initial set up, my only concern is to make sure that this is > >> > something the infrastructure group will maintain over a sustained > >> > period, I'm just hoping that it won't fall by the wayside and stop > >> > working after a few months or wind up with me having to (try and) > >> > maintain it or something. But I'm certainly happy to help out in > >> > getting it up and running and fit for purpose initially. > >> > >> We have kind of a de facto no-Java standard in infrastructure. This is > >> partially because none of us have had good experiences running apps in > >> java and partially because we have noone with Java programming > >> experience to fix things if we need to. If you had some people to give > >> to us to work on maintaining the server we might be able to work out > >> something similar to how zikula is being run for the docs deploy. But > >> that doesn't sound like the case :-( > >> > >> -Toshio > >> > > Bret, > > I don't know, part of me wants to look at calendarserver, but I can't > find what the licensing is there. It looks like maybe it's a ruby > project? I looked around on the site and there's no clear link to > any good information on its licensing. > > Simon, > > As far as zikula, while I think the calendaring of Zikula is great, I > wonder if we really need a fully blown CMS to manage our calendaring? > In this case, it seems to me that we need *just* calendaring and not > much else. I'd like an easy way for people to interact with the > calendar from their client applications and update the calendar. I'd > also like it to only do that if they have the rights to modify > calendar events for their particular group(s) in FAS. > > Can Zikula do that? My thought is that Zikula is more of a "do it on > the server" type application and can't handle input from a calendar > client using caldav (or others). > > Maybe it can do all of the above and more. My theory is that we need > to create a wiki page with the feature set we need and get the thing > that matches closest to our needs. I'd be happy to start that effort > early next week. If anyone else wants to create it first, I'd be > happy to help their page instead of mine. > > Cheers, > > Clint > Clint, I see it a little different. Why support ANOTHER piece of software when the software we already have will work. We wouldn't be using the CMS just for calendaring... We'd be using the CMS for everything and it has a calendar function. All that being said, I don't know if Zikula can do what we want it to do for a calendar solution. Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ccurran at redhat.com Mon Feb 9 07:22:16 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 17:22:16 +1000 Subject: Improving the documentation process In-Reply-To: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> References: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> Message-ID: <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> Christopher Curran wrote: > Here are some of my thoughts on how we can make fedora-docs a better > place. > > First off I think we would benefit from a simpler docs model which > simulates the documentation model of real world publishing. > For instance instead of this entire page: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WorkFlow > > We: > 1. Use the wiki as a wiki. Wikis are great for short howtos and > explanations. However, they quickly become unwieldy when trying to do > anything else. Sure you can play Zork on uncyclopedia but that isn't > the purpose behind a wiki. > > 2. Replace the old publishing workflow with this: > > 1. Develop content in small groups, pulling useful howtos and snippits > from the wiki and expanding them. Correct and copy edit wiki articles > to help development. For small stand alone sections, write on the wiki > first and get them reviewed. Or do none of those things and just write > in Docbook XML. after all, this is open source and we are all about > choice, do what you want as long as you contribute :) > fedoraproject.org can host the XML in your favourite repository system. > > 2. Write a daemon that publishes Docbook XML using publican to > fedoraproject.org/docs > > 3. ??? > > 4. Profit > > > All comments appreciated. > > Chris > No one thinks a simpler system is good, or bad? Chris From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 09:56:41 2009 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 19:56:41 +1000 Subject: Improving the documentation process In-Reply-To: <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> References: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0902090156t157fa7bdo5c8c41c21ee13670@mail.gmail.com> I think the CMS was supposed to help with this. See the various CMS related threads (I am sure someone has a link?). From kirk202 at q.com Mon Feb 9 18:31:37 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:31:37 -0700 Subject: Self Introduction Message-ID: Hi Everyone, About a month ago I installed Fedora, my first experience with Linux. So far I'm really enjoying it. I got so frustrated with Vista that I wiped it from my hd and installed F10.. I'll NEVER go back to Windows! My writing experience is articles and short stories. So far I've screwed up several times trying to install tarballs then I discovered the readme files which have helped some. I still have problems with the right commands. I installed VirtualBox and have been playing with Ubuntu, PCLinux and Puppy Linux and discovered I like Fedora much more. Fedora seems very stable, fairly user friendly and is very flexible in that its limited only by what you want to do with it. I used to make .bat files in DOS before Windows came out...guess that kind of dates me, anyway, the command line looks like an old friend. Learning enough so I can actually help is my biggest worry. Hopefully someone will be willing be my mentor for a while. I look forward to meeting everyone. Sincerely, Kirk Ziegler From kwade at redhat.com Mon Feb 9 19:51:25 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 11:51:25 -0800 Subject: Improving the documentation process In-Reply-To: <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> References: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090209195125.GJ4142@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 05:22:16PM +1000, Christopher Curran wrote: > No one thinks a simpler system is good, or bad? Here's the ironic part -- the system you describe is very much like the system we have been using for the past few years. (Close enough, anyway.) As I've mentioned before, the process pages are full of cruft and are hard to understand for new and experienced contributors. Improvement needed. I am an OK person to work on that, but also think someone a bit newer might do a better job. No foul for it being unclear as you read it, right?[1] I think the difference of opinion that we are balancing on is the idea of using the wiki as a primary/initial authoring tool for some documents. Because of the 1000x more contributors to the wiki, it is currently a better way to get the wider community involved in documenting. It doesn't mean we bow to the will of the wiki, but it has to be a serious part of the equation. One reason we have subtle variations is precisely because people such as yourself come along and want to treat their upstream document in their own way. A team wants to work on a new document entirely in DocBook XML, great! A team wants to work in wiki first, then convert, great! OO.org then convert to DocBook XML, great! For the most part, you'll notice, DocBook is the integration point, even if it is not always canonical. In addition, some documents lend themselves to variations. For example, the User Guide is a good document for a larger group of new contributors to collaborate on via the wiki. It is worth starting each new version back on the wiki. At the end of the writing, the conversion for each version to XML ends up teaching them more about DocBook XML. This is because the conversion from MediaWiki produces a set of working XML files, and the conversion team is focused on inline XML markup. In the future, the team might choose to stay in XML, great! The release notes are a third variation. At one time, we considered the wiki canonical throughout the process, but that proved to be too much of a PITA. This last release, we made the XML on fedorahosted.org/release-notes canonical after the conversion. Because the content is 80% new for each release, we have gone back to clean beat pages to author for each release to gain the collaboration force multiplier. Thanks - Karsten [1] As a note, the original steps you wrote at the start of the thread presume a bit of back knowledge. It also compresses out the actual processes involved in each of those content development methods. For me, I am at my most unclear when I start to write out al those details. I think that is part of why [[DocsProject/WorkFlow]] is so unclear. -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ryanlerch at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 21:18:10 2009 From: ryanlerch at gmail.com (ryan lerch) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:18:10 +1000 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <671a617b0902091318t2ceb6038jc0e1719708b63e0c@mail.gmail.com> Welcome Kirk! Is there anything of interest in the Docs Project that you would like to write? cheers, ryanlerch On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Kirk wrote: > Hi Everyone, > > About a month ago I installed Fedora, my first experience > with Linux. So far I'm really enjoying it. I got so frustrated with > Vista that I wiped it from my hd and installed F10.. I'll NEVER go back > to Windows! > > My writing experience is articles and short stories. > > So far I've screwed up several times trying to install tarballs > then I discovered the readme files which have helped some. I still > have problems with the right commands. I installed VirtualBox and have > been playing with Ubuntu, PCLinux and Puppy Linux and discovered I like > Fedora much more. Fedora seems very stable, fairly user friendly and is > very flexible in that its limited only by what you want to do with it. > I used to make .bat files in DOS before Windows came out...guess that > kind of dates me, anyway, the command line looks like an old friend. > > Learning enough so I can actually help is my biggest worry. Hopefully > someone will be willing be my mentor for a while. > > I look forward to meeting everyone. > > Sincerely, > > Kirk Ziegler > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From kirk202 at q.com Mon Feb 9 21:51:45 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 14:51:45 -0700 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <671a617b0902091318t2ceb6038jc0e1719708b63e0c@mail.gmail.com> References: <671a617b0902091318t2ceb6038jc0e1719708b63e0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi Ryan, I've been looking a little at what's going on and there's so much. Any suggestions where they're short handed? Kirk On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:18:10 +1000 ryan lerch wrote: > Welcome Kirk! > > Is there anything of interest in the Docs Project that you would like > to write? > > cheers, > ryanlerch > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Kirk wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > > > About a month ago I installed Fedora, my first experience > > with Linux. So far I'm really enjoying it. I got so frustrated > > with Vista that I wiped it from my hd and installed F10.. I'll > > NEVER go back to Windows! > > > > My writing experience is articles and short stories. > > > > So far I've screwed up several times trying to install tarballs > > then I discovered the readme files which have helped some. I still > > have problems with the right commands. I installed VirtualBox and > > have been playing with Ubuntu, PCLinux and Puppy Linux and > > discovered I like Fedora much more. Fedora seems very stable, > > fairly user friendly and is very flexible in that its limited only > > by what you want to do with it. I used to make .bat files in DOS > > before Windows came out...guess that kind of dates me, anyway, the > > command line looks like an old friend. > > > > Learning enough so I can actually help is my biggest worry. > > Hopefully someone will be willing be my mentor for a while. > > > > I look forward to meeting everyone. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Kirk Ziegler > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > From ryanlerch at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 22:58:33 2009 From: ryanlerch at gmail.com (ryan lerch) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:58:33 +1000 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: References: <671a617b0902091318t2ceb6038jc0e1719708b63e0c@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <671a617b0902091458k435d67dat4fa896a723b4e685@mail.gmail.com> As a new user, (of linux and fedora...) you may be able to provide some insight into the Install Guide and User Guide, especially in the area of if these guides are useful and relevant for a first time user. There is also are the Release Notes. You can jump in and take an area of interest and interact with a developer to provide useful notes on what has changed for the upcoming release... You also may be able to help out ianweller in his neverending quest to untangle the wiki... does anyone else have any ideas on how Kirk can help us out? cheers, ryanlerch On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:51 AM, Kirk wrote: > Hi Ryan, > > I've been looking a little at what's going on and there's > so much. Any suggestions where they're short handed? > > Kirk > > On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:18:10 +1000 > ryan lerch wrote: > >> Welcome Kirk! >> >> Is there anything of interest in the Docs Project that you would like >> to write? >> >> cheers, >> ryanlerch >> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Kirk wrote: >> > Hi Everyone, >> > >> > About a month ago I installed Fedora, my first experience >> > with Linux. So far I'm really enjoying it. I got so frustrated >> > with Vista that I wiped it from my hd and installed F10.. I'll >> > NEVER go back to Windows! >> > >> > My writing experience is articles and short stories. >> > >> > So far I've screwed up several times trying to install tarballs >> > then I discovered the readme files which have helped some. I still >> > have problems with the right commands. I installed VirtualBox and >> > have been playing with Ubuntu, PCLinux and Puppy Linux and >> > discovered I like Fedora much more. Fedora seems very stable, >> > fairly user friendly and is very flexible in that its limited only >> > by what you want to do with it. I used to make .bat files in DOS >> > before Windows came out...guess that kind of dates me, anyway, the >> > command line looks like an old friend. >> > >> > Learning enough so I can actually help is my biggest worry. >> > Hopefully someone will be willing be my mentor for a while. >> > >> > I look forward to meeting everyone. >> > >> > Sincerely, >> > >> > Kirk Ziegler >> > >> > -- >> > fedora-docs-list mailing list >> > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> > To unsubscribe: >> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > >> > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From ryanlerch at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 22:59:45 2009 From: ryanlerch at gmail.com (ryan lerch) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:59:45 +1000 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <671a617b0902091458k435d67dat4fa896a723b4e685@mail.gmail.com> References: <671a617b0902091318t2ceb6038jc0e1719708b63e0c@mail.gmail.com> <671a617b0902091458k435d67dat4fa896a723b4e685@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <671a617b0902091459y764a1ccbjd150c3254bfb30ce@mail.gmail.com> wow, i should really proofread my emails before i send them... sorry about that :) On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:58 AM, ryan lerch wrote: > As a new user, (of linux and fedora...) you may be able to provide > some insight into the Install Guide and User Guide, especially in the > area of if these guides are useful and relevant for a first time user. > > There is also are the Release Notes. You can jump in and take an area > of interest and interact with a developer to provide useful notes on > what has changed for the upcoming release... > > You also may be able to help out ianweller in his neverending quest to > untangle the wiki... > > does anyone else have any ideas on how Kirk can help us out? > > cheers, > ryanlerch > > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 7:51 AM, Kirk wrote: >> Hi Ryan, >> >> I've been looking a little at what's going on and there's >> so much. Any suggestions where they're short handed? >> >> Kirk >> >> On Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:18:10 +1000 >> ryan lerch wrote: >> >>> Welcome Kirk! >>> >>> Is there anything of interest in the Docs Project that you would like >>> to write? >>> >>> cheers, >>> ryanlerch >>> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 4:31 AM, Kirk wrote: >>> > Hi Everyone, >>> > >>> > About a month ago I installed Fedora, my first experience >>> > with Linux. So far I'm really enjoying it. I got so frustrated >>> > with Vista that I wiped it from my hd and installed F10.. I'll >>> > NEVER go back to Windows! >>> > >>> > My writing experience is articles and short stories. >>> > >>> > So far I've screwed up several times trying to install tarballs >>> > then I discovered the readme files which have helped some. I still >>> > have problems with the right commands. I installed VirtualBox and >>> > have been playing with Ubuntu, PCLinux and Puppy Linux and >>> > discovered I like Fedora much more. Fedora seems very stable, >>> > fairly user friendly and is very flexible in that its limited only >>> > by what you want to do with it. I used to make .bat files in DOS >>> > before Windows came out...guess that kind of dates me, anyway, the >>> > command line looks like an old friend. >>> > >>> > Learning enough so I can actually help is my biggest worry. >>> > Hopefully someone will be willing be my mentor for a while. >>> > >>> > I look forward to meeting everyone. >>> > >>> > Sincerely, >>> > >>> > Kirk Ziegler >>> > >>> > -- >>> > fedora-docs-list mailing list >>> > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >>> > To unsubscribe: >>> > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >>> > >>> >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > From danielsmw at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 23:04:02 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 18:04:02 -0500 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <671a617b0902091458k435d67dat4fa896a723b4e685@mail.gmail.com> References: <671a617b0902091318t2ceb6038jc0e1719708b63e0c@mail.gmail.com> <671a617b0902091458k435d67dat4fa896a723b4e685@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1DF335-95A4-408D-BC15-2029D2B4562D@gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Feb 9, 2009, at 5:58 PM, ryan lerch wrote: > As a new user, (of linux and fedora...) you may be able to provide > some insight into the Install Guide and User Guide, especially in the > area of if these guides are useful and relevant for a first time user. If you're interested in working on the User Guide, we can definitely take your insight. It seems that there's a sort of paradox in writing beginner friendly documentation, because the more you do it and the more you learn, the more you fall into un-beginner-friendly jargon and terminology. In that light, a few of us are working on revamping the User Guide to make it more beginner friendly, and your insight and writing ability are definitely welcome. - - Matthew -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkmQtmoACgkQKGE1gv0RSx40MACfTR1r8Zn3d2TZ+OV6uQZltYW8 TvUAnjPBai8+oYJk6AzIU9Am864ZYmdn =yode -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kirk202 at q.com Mon Feb 9 23:51:14 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 16:51:14 -0700 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <4A1DF335-95A4-408D-BC15-2029D2B4562D@gmail.com> References: <671a617b0902091318t2ceb6038jc0e1719708b63e0c@mail.gmail.com> <671a617b0902091458k435d67dat4fa896a723b4e685@mail.gmail.com> <4A1DF335-95A4-408D-BC15-2029D2B4562D@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks, Good suggestions. Who do I need to contact to help on the Install &/or User Guides? Is it you Matthew? Kirk On Mon, 9 Feb 2009 18:04:02 -0500 Matthew Daniels wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Feb 9, 2009, at 5:58 PM, ryan lerch wrote: > > > As a new user, (of linux and fedora...) you may be able to provide > > some insight into the Install Guide and User Guide, especially in > > the area of if these guides are useful and relevant for a first > > time user. > > > If you're interested in working on the User Guide, we can definitely > take your insight. It seems that there's a sort of paradox in > writing beginner friendly documentation, because the more you do it > and the more you learn, the more you fall into un-beginner-friendly > jargon and terminology. In that light, a few of us are working on > revamping the User Guide to make it more beginner friendly, and your > insight and writing ability are definitely welcome. > > - - Matthew > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v2.0.10 (Darwin) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkmQtmoACgkQKGE1gv0RSx40MACfTR1r8Zn3d2TZ+OV6uQZltYW8 > TvUAnjPBai8+oYJk6AzIU9Am864ZYmdn > =yode > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > From danielsmw at gmail.com Mon Feb 9 23:59:39 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 18:59:39 -0500 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: References: <671a617b0902091318t2ceb6038jc0e1719708b63e0c@mail.gmail.com> <671a617b0902091458k435d67dat4fa896a723b4e685@mail.gmail.com> <4A1DF335-95A4-408D-BC15-2029D2B4562D@gmail.com> Message-ID: <8A273B49-C6E1-4EFB-B523-A0C93ED1944E@gmail.com> On Feb 9, 2009, at 6:51 PM, Kirk wrote: > Thanks, Good suggestions. > > Who do I need to contact to help on the Install &/or User Guides? > Is it you Matthew? > > Kirk If you're interested in the User Guide, I'd be your best contact for now. You're welcome to email me or you might find me as danielsmw in IRC. I can't remember off the top of my head who's in charge of Installation Guide... I think maybe David Nalley is at least looking at the bug reports, but I can't be trusted on that. From kirk202 at q.com Tue Feb 10 00:36:25 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2009 17:36:25 -0700 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <8A273B49-C6E1-4EFB-B523-A0C93ED1944E@gmail.com> References: <671a617b0902091318t2ceb6038jc0e1719708b63e0c@mail.gmail.com> <671a617b0902091458k435d67dat4fa896a723b4e685@mail.gmail.com> <4A1DF335-95A4-408D-BC15-2029D2B4562D@gmail.com> <8A273B49-C6E1-4EFB-B523-A0C93ED1944E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Matthew, The User Guide sounds good. I'll have to email you as I'm not to sure how to find you IRC. Thanks, Kirk n Mon, 9 Feb 2009 18:59:39 -0500 Matthew Daniels wrote: > On Feb 9, 2009, at 6:51 PM, Kirk wrote: > > > Thanks, Good suggestions. > > > > Who do I need to contact to help on the Install &/or User Guides? > > Is it you Matthew? > > > > Kirk > > > If you're interested in the User Guide, I'd be your best contact for > now. You're welcome to email me or you might find me as danielsmw > in IRC. I can't remember off the top of my head who's in charge of > Installation Guide... I think maybe David Nalley is at least looking > at the bug reports, but I can't be trusted on that. > From ccurran at redhat.com Tue Feb 10 01:07:16 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:07:16 +1000 Subject: Improving the documentation process In-Reply-To: <20090209195125.GJ4142@calliope.phig.org> References: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> <20090209195125.GJ4142@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4990D344.5000602@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, Feb 09, 2009 at 05:22:16PM +1000, Christopher Curran wrote: > > >> No one thinks a simpler system is good, or bad? >> > > Here's the ironic part -- the system you describe is very much like > the system we have been using for the past few years. (Close enough, > anyway.) > > No, no it's not. The present system has several manual stages and several superfluous stages. That entire CVS to PHP to old docbook system is a prime example of why there is nothing even remotely alike about what I proposed and what currently exists. > As I've mentioned before, the process pages are full of cruft and are > hard to understand for new and experienced contributors. Improvement > needed. I am an OK person to work on that, but also think someone a > bit newer might do a better job. No foul for it being unclear as you > read it, right?[1] > > Sure, which is why I advocate chopping it back. I think the first step should be to draw a flow diagram using inkscape or the gimp and see exactly what the process is versus what we want. Every process page needs a flow diagram so all people working on the project can clearly define where they sit in the development life cycle. > I think the difference of opinion that we are balancing on is the idea > of using the wiki as a primary/initial authoring tool for some > documents. Because of the 1000x more contributors to the wiki, it is > currently a better way to get the wider community involved in > documenting. It doesn't mean we bow to the will of the wiki, but it > has to be a serious part of the equation. > I wasn't saying we drop the wiki or not acknowledge it's presence. The key difference in what I am saying is writing books is not writing a wiki. A wiki cannot replace author collaboration, it is the wrong tool. No author, past or present has penned their tome on a wiki. That's not to say that the wiki is not important just that it should not be considered THE place for writing books. > One reason we have subtle variations is precisely because people such > as yourself come along and want to treat their upstream document in > their own way. A team wants to work on a new document entirely in > DocBook XML, great! A team wants to work in wiki first, then convert, > great! OO.org then convert to DocBook XML, great! For the most part, > you'll notice, DocBook is the integration point, even if it is not > always canonical. > > I have no issues with how a team works. My issue is with the complexity of the publishing method. Right now it is quite hard to go from Docbook to hosted content. That is where we need the most revision of present practices. Regardless of the complexity involved it should be a one step push. Documentation projects should be pre-approved to push updates to the hosted content. Documentation projects need to be treated more as stand alone projects which publish to fedora docs project rather than work in subjugation to. > In addition, some documents lend themselves to variations. For > example, the User Guide is a good document for a larger group of new > contributors to collaborate on via the wiki. It is worth starting > each new version back on the wiki. At the end of the writing, the > conversion for each version to XML ends up teaching them more about > DocBook XML. This is because the conversion from MediaWiki produces a > set of working XML files, and the conversion team is focused on inline > XML markup. In the future, the team might choose to stay in XML, > great! > > Nothing in my proposal excluded such a team from working that way. Again, what I am arguing for is simpler publishing. > The release notes are a third variation. At one time, we considered > the wiki canonical throughout the process, but that proved to be too > much of a PITA. This last release, we made the XML on > fedorahosted.org/release-notes canonical after the conversion. > Because the content is 80% new for each release, we have gone back to > clean beat pages to author for each release to gain the collaboration > force multiplier. > This is low level detail to distract from what I am saying. > Thanks - Karsten > > [1] As a note, the original steps you wrote at the start of the thread > presume a bit of back knowledge. It also compresses out the actual > processes involved in each of those content development methods. For > me, I am at my most unclear when I start to write out al those > details. I think that is part of why [[DocsProject/WorkFlow]] is so > unclear. > > Also RE: Murray The CMS is Yet Another Markup and Yet Another step in an abysmally long chain. What we need is an automated tool to publish work from documentation projects. The entire argument about making editing easier is stupid. Editing is hard. The generic open source method for edits and corrections is filing bugs. This works just as well for documentation projects as it does for kernels. I know the impulse of software development is to reinvent the wheel and call it something new but it is wrong. If we continue to think that using a CMS will fix anything we are just deluding ourselves. What we need is a publishing tool. Nothing else will fix our present problems other than a publishing tool. Chris From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 01:20:14 2009 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:20:14 +1000 Subject: Improving the documentation process In-Reply-To: <4990D344.5000602@redhat.com> References: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> <20090209195125.GJ4142@calliope.phig.org> <4990D344.5000602@redhat.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0902091720h6137e3c8g64d7d948a6bf1196@mail.gmail.com> > No, no it's not. The present system has several manual stages and several > superfluous stages. That entire CVS to PHP to old docbook system is a prime > example of why there is nothing even remotely alike about what I proposed > and what currently exists. You do not have to convert to PHP. make html, then copy into working copy of /cvs/fedora/, then commit. Of course, it is easy to say that once you have done it before, but the documentation tells you how to do everything (as long as you ignore the PHP bits ;-)): From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 01:21:04 2009 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:21:04 +1000 Subject: Improving the documentation process In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0902091720h6137e3c8g64d7d948a6bf1196@mail.gmail.com> References: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> <20090209195125.GJ4142@calliope.phig.org> <4990D344.5000602@redhat.com> <95f1114b0902091720h6137e3c8g64d7d948a6bf1196@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0902091721y48204398q829e0dc29a7dc0f9@mail.gmail.com> although, I did find the whole process a pain and hard to do the first time...but I have no ideas on how to fix that *^_^* From noriko at redhat.com Tue Feb 10 01:35:34 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:35:34 +1000 Subject: install-guide in Spanish In-Reply-To: <4818cd80902041459n64978276r2c11b309945d6d01@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80902041459n64978276r2c11b309945d6d01@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4990D9E6.60203@redhat.com> Hi Docs team Could you kindly check this issue how to resolve? It is very sad to see not published. Domingo Becker ????????: > I needed to do something that I know I read it in the install-guide > while I was translating it. > But when I go to [1], there is no Spanish version. > In [2] I see at least 8 languages at a 100% translated. > Is it possible to have the fully translated languages in [1] ? > It happens the same for F9 [3]. I remember it was completed. > > [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f10/ > > [2] http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module/docs-install-guide > > [3] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f9/ > > kind regards > > Domingo Becker (es) > > -- > Fedora-trans-list mailing list > Fedora-trans-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list From ryanlerch at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 03:07:32 2009 From: ryanlerch at gmail.com (ryan lerch) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 13:07:32 +1000 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Notes Update Message-ID: <671a617b0902091907p4c624113pe96eb313c8b381be@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I have finished creating a mockup of the fedora 11 release notes [1] This document has a slightly different structure than what has been used in the past, so any comments or ideas for improvement will be apreciated. To make changes to the release notes, still edit the beats [2] on the wiki, and then i can convert those changes over to DocBook (using publican) and update the mockup[1] Hopefully this slightly different approach will allow us to have a better idea of what the release notes are going to loook like a bit eariler on in the development cycle. Cheers, ryanlerch ryanlerch at fedoraproject.org [1] - http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/Release_Notes/ [2] - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats From ryanlerch at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 06:14:57 2009 From: ryanlerch at gmail.com (ryan lerch) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:14:57 +1000 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Notes Update In-Reply-To: <671a617b0902091907p4c624113pe96eb313c8b381be@mail.gmail.com> References: <671a617b0902091907p4c624113pe96eb313c8b381be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <671a617b0902092214y77e730ddt15cec33df08ea987@mail.gmail.com> I have also added an RPM of the release notes mockup to http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/Release_Notes/. cheers, ryanlerch On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:07 PM, ryan lerch wrote: > Hi all, > > I have finished creating a mockup of the fedora 11 release notes [1] > This document has a slightly different structure than what has been > used in the past, so any comments or ideas for improvement will be > apreciated. > > To make changes to the release notes, still edit the beats [2] on the > wiki, and then i can convert those changes over to DocBook (using > publican) and update the mockup[1] > > Hopefully this slightly different approach will allow us to have a > better idea of what the release notes are going to loook like a bit > eariler on in the development cycle. > > Cheers, > ryanlerch > ryanlerch at fedoraproject.org > > [1] - http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/Release_Notes/ > [2] - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats > From ryanlerch at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 06:41:17 2009 From: ryanlerch at gmail.com (ryan lerch) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 16:41:17 +1000 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Notes Update In-Reply-To: <49911CD0.7090408@cchtml.com> References: <671a617b0902091907p4c624113pe96eb313c8b381be@mail.gmail.com> <671a617b0902092214y77e730ddt15cec33df08ea987@mail.gmail.com> <49911CD0.7090408@cchtml.com> Message-ID: <671a617b0902092241i30c504a3l8b1935230968e876@mail.gmail.com> > > However! In the PDF output, the TOC starts on the first page... and at first > I was thrown off by it. Would it be possible to have the first page be a > cover page and the TOC start on page 2? > I am not sure... all these items were automatically built from docbook xml by publican. Will have to track down if there is any options in publican that i can use to change that behaviour. cheers, ryanlerch From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 10 10:10:43 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 02:10:43 -0800 Subject: install-guide in Spanish In-Reply-To: <4990D9E6.60203@redhat.com> References: <4818cd80902041459n64978276r2c11b309945d6d01@mail.gmail.com> <4990D9E6.60203@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090210101043.GP4142@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:35:34AM +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > Hi Docs team > > Could you kindly check this issue how to resolve? > It is very sad to see not published. You are right, none of it is published. That is a big mistake, very sorry we missed that. :( I was trying to build the Install Guide tonight and was receiving errors I couldn't immediately solve. http://fpaste.org/paste/3283 I'll look at this again in the morning, around 1600 UTC. - Karsten > > Domingo Becker ????????: >> I needed to do something that I know I read it in the install-guide >> while I was translating it. >> But when I go to [1], there is no Spanish version. >> In [2] I see at least 8 languages at a 100% translated. >> Is it possible to have the fully translated languages in [1] ? >> It happens the same for F9 [3]. I remember it was completed. >> >> [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f10/ >> >> [2] http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module/docs-install-guide >> >> [3] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f9/ >> >> kind regards >> >> Domingo Becker (es) >> >> -- >> Fedora-trans-list mailing list >> Fedora-trans-list at redhat.com >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Feb 10 12:06:59 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:06:59 -0500 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Notes Update References: <671a617b0902091907p4c624113pe96eb313c8b381be@mail.gmail.com> <49912697.2050303@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: <72183A7FA6E04E2590A72EADCD6A3FF4@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thorsten Leemhuis" Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:02 AM Subject: Re: Fedora 11 Release Notes Update > As you asked for: The design looks nice, but I for one hate > html with fixed width(?). The fixed width isn't nearly as obnoxious as having every paragraph centered in the first section. It also seems a little strange that some sections are entirely on one html page, while others have a page for each subsection. Perhaps it will make a little more sense when we have more content. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 12:43:18 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:43:18 -0500 Subject: Improving the documentation process In-Reply-To: <4990D344.5000602@redhat.com> References: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> <20090209195125.GJ4142@calliope.phig.org> <4990D344.5000602@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090210124318.GA1785@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:07:16AM +1000, Christopher Curran wrote: > Sure, which is why I advocate chopping it back. I think the first step > should be to draw a flow diagram using inkscape or the gimp and see > exactly what the process is versus what we want. Every process page needs > a flow diagram so all people working on the project can clearly define > where they sit in the development life cycle. This is a pretty good idea -- it helped when I was working with John Poelstra on the Feature process pages to see the workflow for the process he had in mind. [...snip...] > I have no issues with how a team works. My issue is with the complexity > of the publishing method. Right now it is quite hard to go from Docbook > to hosted content. That is where we need the most revision of present > practices. Regardless of the complexity involved it should be a one step > push. Documentation projects should be pre-approved to push updates to > the hosted content. Documentation projects need to be treated more as > stand alone projects which publish to fedora docs project rather than > work in subjugation to. [...snip...] > Also RE: Murray > The CMS is Yet Another Markup and Yet Another step in an abysmally long > chain. What we need is an automated tool to publish work from > documentation projects. I'd swear that you sound like someone who's getting ready to sell us an automated tool to publish to hosting. I'm not saying I for one would turn it down. But would you care to just go ahead and put it on the table so we can look at it and figure out the next steps? > The entire argument about making editing easier is stupid. Editing is > hard. The generic open source method for edits and corrections is filing > bugs. This works just as well for documentation projects as it does for > kernels. I know the impulse of software development is to reinvent the > wheel and call it something new but it is wrong. If we continue to think > that using a CMS will fix anything we are just deluding ourselves. What > we need is a publishing tool. Nothing else will fix our present problems > other than a publishing tool. In other words, you want the Fedora Docs Project to do things the same way that you do them in Red Hat Engineering Services. That's understandable and a valid PoV. But if we have to do that to get your positive input and all of our volunteers disappear, that's a pretty high price to pay. My hope is that we can have both, but to do that you need to go past the idea stage, as have the folks who are working with the Zikula crew. Put the tool on the table (or some level of detail that you envision). Work with the Infrastructure team to get a test instance on one of the publictest servers, so we can weigh one workflow against the other. Based on what you're saying, it should be pretty clear if the CMS really isn't helping as much as a publishing tool. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 12:54:59 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:54:59 -0500 Subject: install-guide in Spanish In-Reply-To: <20090210101043.GP4142@calliope.phig.org> References: <4818cd80902041459n64978276r2c11b309945d6d01@mail.gmail.com> <4990D9E6.60203@redhat.com> <20090210101043.GP4142@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20090210125459.GB1785@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 02:10:43AM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:35:34AM +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > > Hi Docs team > > > > Could you kindly check this issue how to resolve? > > It is very sad to see not published. > > You are right, none of it is published. That is a big mistake, very > sorry we missed that. :( > > I was trying to build the Install Guide tonight and was receiving > errors I couldn't immediately solve. > > http://fpaste.org/paste/3283 > > I'll look at this again in the morning, around 1600 UTC. You have two errors here: 1. The IDREF (target) for a is wrong. Look for the IDREF "sn-ftp-install-settings" in the po/de.po file, figure out what that target should be, and fix it. 2. The Makefile is missing an entry for the colophon.xml file in the XMLFILES definition; once you add it that error should disappear. On another note though, it looks to me like there are minor changes to be made to the POT and the "es" translation is not 100% done: $ make postat-es es: 1037/83/23/ -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 13:02:49 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:02:49 -0500 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Notes Update In-Reply-To: <671a617b0902092241i30c504a3l8b1935230968e876@mail.gmail.com> References: <671a617b0902091907p4c624113pe96eb313c8b381be@mail.gmail.com> <671a617b0902092214y77e730ddt15cec33df08ea987@mail.gmail.com> <49911CD0.7090408@cchtml.com> <671a617b0902092241i30c504a3l8b1935230968e876@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090210130249.GC1785@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 04:41:17PM +1000, ryan lerch wrote: > > > > However! In the PDF output, the TOC starts on the first page... and at first > > I was thrown off by it. Would it be possible to have the first page be a > > cover page and the TOC start on page 2? > > > > I am not sure... > all these items were automatically built from docbook xml by publican. > Will have to track down if there is any options in publican that i can > use to change that behaviour. This might help: http://forrest.apache.org/docs_0_90/faq.html#pageBreaks -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kevin.kofler at chello.at Tue Feb 10 13:20:03 2009 From: kevin.kofler at chello.at (Kevin Kofler) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:20:03 +0100 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Notes Update References: <671a617b0902091907p4c624113pe96eb313c8b381be@mail.gmail.com> <49912697.2050303@leemhuis.info> Message-ID: Thorsten Leemhuis wrote: > As you asked for: The design looks nice, but I for one hate html with > fixed width(?). Me too. IMHO this is a no-go. HTML is designed to adapt to the screen size. There are screens with widely differing widths. Please don't hardcode the width! Kevin Kofler From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 13:46:39 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 08:46:39 -0500 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Notes Update In-Reply-To: <671a617b0902091907p4c624113pe96eb313c8b381be@mail.gmail.com> References: <671a617b0902091907p4c624113pe96eb313c8b381be@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090210134639.GH1785@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 01:07:32PM +1000, ryan lerch wrote: > Hi all, > > I have finished creating a mockup of the fedora 11 release notes [1] > This document has a slightly different structure than what has been > used in the past, so any comments or ideas for improvement will be > apreciated. [...snip...] Cross-posting this to fedora-devel-list was a *good* idea. However, many commenters on that list are not members of this one. I don't know if you're already on that list, but you can and probably should monitor that thread to see input from readers here: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-February/msg00910.html -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From simon at zikula.org Tue Feb 10 14:05:08 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 14:05:08 -0000 Subject: Improving the documentation process In-Reply-To: <20090210124318.GA1785@localhost.localdomain> References: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> <20090209195125.GJ4142@calliope.phig.org> <4990D344.5000602@redhat.com> <20090210124318.GA1785@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <00ac01c98b88$9579f260$c06dd720$@org> > I'd swear that you sound like someone who's getting ready to sell us an > automated tool to publish to hosting. I'm not saying I for one would > turn it down. But would you care to just go ahead and put it on the > table so we can look at it and figure out the next steps? There's someone on the Zikula team writing a module to pull your XML documents from source control and publish them into the CMS for displaying to the world. We're already working on that, in case it hasn't been clear previously. If this isn't useful or needs to change best to let us know while the script is still in the early stages. Theoretically you simply write your docbook XML, commit it when you're done and then log into the CMS and hit publish to update the documents. Hopefully there will also be a test option where you can publish in a private location for checking while avoiding publishing a part finished document to the public at large. From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 16:03:33 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 11:03:33 -0500 Subject: Improving the documentation process In-Reply-To: <00ac01c98b88$9579f260$c06dd720$@org> References: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> <20090209195125.GJ4142@calliope.phig.org> <4990D344.5000602@redhat.com> <20090210124318.GA1785@localhost.localdomain> <00ac01c98b88$9579f260$c06dd720$@org> Message-ID: <20090210160333.GB25415@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 02:05:08PM -0000, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > > I'd swear that you sound like someone who's getting ready to sell us an > > automated tool to publish to hosting. I'm not saying I for one would > > turn it down. But would you care to just go ahead and put it on the > > table so we can look at it and figure out the next steps? > > There's someone on the Zikula team writing a module to pull your XML > documents from source control and publish them into the CMS for displaying > to the world. We're already working on that, in case it hasn't been clear > previously. If this isn't useful or needs to change best to let us know > while the script is still in the early stages. > > Theoretically you simply write your docbook XML, commit it when you're done > and then log into the CMS and hit publish to update the documents. > Hopefully there will also be a test option where you can publish in a > private location for checking while avoiding publishing a part finished > document to the public at large. I had read about this module, and just to clarify, I don't want to throw a spanner/wrench into anyone's works. I think this sounds just like what Chris is recommending -- a one-click publish to hosting solution. If there are alternate solutions available, happy to see them. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From domingobecker at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 00:43:29 2009 From: domingobecker at gmail.com (Domingo Becker) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 21:43:29 -0300 Subject: install-guide in Spanish In-Reply-To: <20090210125459.GB1785@localhost.localdomain> References: <4818cd80902041459n64978276r2c11b309945d6d01@mail.gmail.com> <4990D9E6.60203@redhat.com> <20090210101043.GP4142@calliope.phig.org> <20090210125459.GB1785@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4818cd80902101643t29e49f44ofc939c87898eb603@mail.gmail.com> 2009/2/10 Paul W. Frields : > On another note though, it looks to me like there are minor changes to > be made to the POT and the "es" translation is not 100% done: > > $ make postat-es > es: 1037/83/23/ > Thank you, Paul. Then, there are 3 possible reasons for that: 1. DL [1] is not showing the right statistics 2. Transifex is not commiting the po files correctly to the upstream VCS. 3. DL/Tx is not getting the current install-guide.master.pot file from upstream VCS. [1] http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module/docs-install-guide I thought I was up to date, as shown in [1]. Please, push the differences to DL so I may complete the translation. kind regards Domingo Becker (es) From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Feb 11 13:25:52 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 08:25:52 -0500 Subject: FDSCo Meeting Reminder Message-ID: <1234358752.16484.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> REMINDER: There will be a FDSCo Meeting today at 1900 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From danielsmw at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 14:11:47 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 09:11:47 -0500 Subject: FDSCo Mtg / User Guide Update Message-ID: <23D28E37-4FC3-44FE-8045-27D142096D17@gmail.com> About two weeks ago, I had mentioned trying to finally finish the F9 UG but that there were some chapters that I wasn't in the position to fact check. I think Karsten's suggestion that we publish a guide without these chapters (those chapters being on KDE and Xfce) actually had some merit (1), so that's the plan I'm going with right now. From that same email (1) we had also talked about the guys at SCaLE working on the F10 update with me over VOIP. That should still be able to work out, and I'm thinking we can take a giant chunk out of the F10 version of the UG. If that goes as well as I envision it to, I think we could say that the F10 guide should be ready by mid March. As we move up the revisions, Elizabeth Ann and I had set plans to overhaul a few chapters at a time. The chapters don't need overhauling because they aren't understandable, but we're aiming to make the instructions to the user and the style in which they are presented uniform and more easily accessible as a reference guide (as opposed to a novel read front to back); in other words, we want to make any block of text try to be as understandable as possible with the user having to visit the smallest number of other pages as possible. Another thing we had mentioned in the past was dumping the wiki and writing straight to XML (2). I'm still a proponent of this, but I think it's more important to at least get up to date (F11) before we worry about changing that. And when/if we do change it, I think we need to carefully look at how we can still make this document easy to access for new contributers. Anyway, since "User Guide Update" or something to that effect was on today's Agenda, and since I'm always half an hour late for these FDSCo meetings, I wanted to send this out ahead of time. If we do get to this in the meeting, please wait for me. :-) -Matthew References: [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-January/msg00223.html [2] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-January/msg00061.html From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Feb 11 16:02:40 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:02:40 -0500 Subject: FDSCo Mtg / User Guide Update In-Reply-To: <23D28E37-4FC3-44FE-8045-27D142096D17@gmail.com> References: <23D28E37-4FC3-44FE-8045-27D142096D17@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1234368160.16484.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-02-11 at 09:11 -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: > About two weeks ago, I had mentioned trying to finally finish the F9 > UG but that there were some chapters that I wasn't in the position to > fact check. I think Karsten's suggestion that we publish a guide > without these chapters (those chapters being on KDE and Xfce) actually > had some merit (1), so that's the plan I'm going with right now. You know, I had some of the same problems with some items in the Security Guide. I went over to #fedora-kde and found a couple of guys that proofed what I had written and validated it for me. I wonder if we couldn't get some of the KDE people to come over to the Docs side and help us out. > Anyway, since "User Guide Update" or something to that effect was on > today's Agenda, and since I'm always half an hour late for these FDSCo > meetings, I wanted to send this out ahead of time. If we do get to > this in the meeting, please wait for me. :-) Thank you very much. I appreciate your update. I'll give your update to the group this afternoon. > -Matthew -- Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 11 19:49:03 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 11:49:03 -0800 Subject: FDSCo Mtg / User Guide Update In-Reply-To: <1234368160.16484.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <23D28E37-4FC3-44FE-8045-27D142096D17@gmail.com> <1234368160.16484.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090211194639.GI2060@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 11:02:40AM -0500, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Wed, 2009-02-11 at 09:11 -0500, Matthew Daniels wrote: > > About two weeks ago, I had mentioned trying to finally finish the F9 > > UG but that there were some chapters that I wasn't in the position to > > fact check. I think Karsten's suggestion that we publish a guide > > without these chapters (those chapters being on KDE and Xfce) actually > > had some merit (1), so that's the plan I'm going with right now. > > You know, I had some of the same problems with some items in the > Security Guide. I went over to #fedora-kde and found a couple of guys > that proofed what I had written and validated it for me. I wonder if we > couldn't get some of the KDE people to come over to the Docs side and > help us out. They have been very helpful in this regard in the past. A ton of KDE content has been written initially by iirc Kevin Kofler. We could also stagger; release without KDE and push KDE in as an update. Early, often, etc. :) - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 11 23:35:35 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:35:35 -0800 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-02-11 IRC log Message-ID: <20090211233535.GQ2060@calliope.phig.org> HTML via wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090211 Raw log is attached. -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- 11:01 < Sparks> 11:01 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings 11:01 < Sparks> Roll Call! 11:01 * Sparks is here 11:01 * stickster is here 11:01 * ke4qqq is here 11:01 < kirkz> is here 11:01 * jjmcd too 11:02 * Sparks waits a few more minutes to allow the rest of the chickens a chance to migrate over 11:02 < ke4qqq> s/migrate over/cross the road 11:02 < Sparks> :) 11:02 < Sparks> Do chickens migrate? 11:02 < Sparks> Would chickens migrate? 11:02 < jjmcd> You'll never know, they keep the couped up 11:03 * stickster facepalm 11:03 * jjmcd has been grokking PIC code today, is a little weird 11:04 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Documentation Schedule - http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html 11:04 < Sparks> Okay... moving right along. 11:04 < Sparks> So I think quaid has been pinging on everyone about this schedule. 11:04 < Sparks> Does anyone have any problems or questions about it? 11:05 * Sparks hears crickets 11:05 < stickster> none here 11:05 * stickster caret stuck on other window 11:05 < ke4qqq> none here either 11:05 < Sparks> Okay. Just making sure... :) 11:05 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - CMS Update 11:05 < Sparks> Zikula has been in the test mode for about two weeks. ke4qqq and itbegins have been working out the kinks. Any updates? 11:06 < ke4qqq> I've been hacking on packaging and did a bit this weekend - and thanks to herlo have a much cleaner package - I've passed a few questions up to the packaging gods to see if things are allowed.... 11:06 < ke4qqq> we still have 8-10 modules that will need to be packaged as well 11:06 -!- sdziallas_ [n=sebastia at p57A2E698.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:06 < stickster> ke4qqq: Is there a test site viewable at this time, or is that yet to come? 11:07 < ke4qqq> and I also have the conf file that we'll need to get squared away. 11:07 < ke4qqq> pt15 has a test site up and fedora.zikula.org as a test site the Simon setup as well 11:07 < ke4qqq> still some work to do with websites for look and feel I believe 11:08 * stickster sorry to be behind on this 11:08 -!- fab [n=bellet at bellet.info] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:08 * ke4qqq hasn't had the time to devote to it that I want or it'd likely already be in review 11:08 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Do we have an estimation on when everything being completed? 11:08 * stickster notes fedora.zikula.org is about 90% fedora-looking, fwiw 11:08 < ke4qqq> yes 11:09 < ke4qqq> Simon did a nice bit of work in mockup 11:09 < ke4qqq> Sparks: honestly no clue - package review will be an issue - esp since we are talking about 10+ packages 11:09 < ke4qqq> and while we don't need that completed to get it up and running 11:10 < ke4qqq> just getting it done will take a bit of time 11:10 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Okay. Keep us informed! 11:10 -!- gregdek [n=gdk at mobile-166-214-058-192.mycingular.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:10 < stickster> ke4qqq: fyi, http://velohacker.com/?p=3756 11:10 < stickster> jeremy is volunteering to do some package review -- this seems like a good opportunity to grab him! 11:10 < ke4qqq> yes - and I have a few other resources who have volunteered to review for docs 11:10 * Sparks wonders if he should switch reviewers/ 11:11 * stickster wonders if he just started a stampede. "Follow the gourd!" 11:11 < Sparks> Anything else for the CMS? 11:11 < ke4qqq> nothing from me 11:11 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes 11:11 < Sparks> Okay... Those lovely Release Notes... 11:11 < Sparks> Where are we? 11:11 * quaid is here 11:12 < jjmcd> Next week at this time we should be ready to build update for f10 11:12 < quaid> +10 11:12 < jjmcd> Ryanlerch has made a DocBook version from the wiki for f11 test 11:12 -!- jsalisbury [n=chatzill at 68-189-244-216.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:13 < jjmcd> I have shared some comments both on the mailing list and offline 11:13 < Sparks> jjmcd: Are you available on Fedora Talk? 11:14 < jjmcd> I am encouraged that mass rebuild as a result of gcc didn't seem to cause mass upheval 11:14 < jjmcd> Sparks I think I can be in a minute 11:14 < Sparks> jjmcd: I'd like to get you and ryanlerch and quaid and anyone else that wants to in a conference room later this week/weekend we we can make that happen. 11:14 < jjmcd> Untested, but I can hear, not so sure about be heard! 11:15 < jjmcd> "that" being? 11:15 -!- hanthana [n=hanthana at 124.43.60.172] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:15 < Sparks> Oh... 11:15 * stickster glad to see he's not the only one who abuses pronouns. 11:15 < Sparks> "that" being a conference call on F-Talk. (I'm loosing my mind today) 11:16 -!- Zool^ [n=kaland at 19.81-166-29.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:16 < quaid> Sparks: I can do that somehow 11:16 < jjmcd> Prolly not such a bad plan 11:16 < ke4qqq> you mean you are coming unscrewed? 11:16 < quaid> yep, it's all loose 11:16 < Sparks> ke4qqq: There's a Navy term for that of which I'm pretty sure I can't use here 11:17 < ke4qqq> lol 11:17 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:17 -!- ldimagg__ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:17 < Sparks> Okay, so forward motion on the Release Notes... excellent 11:17 < quaid> ok, yeah, I'll take another shot at trying to help the relnotes miss the known bumps. 11:17 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:17 * Sparks loves it when quaid puts himself in the crosshairs 11:17 * quaid is beginning to lose his confidence around ability to write simple, clear instructions 11:17 < Sparks> Anything else? 11:18 < jjmcd> I think we may need to work harder to recruit beat writers 11:18 < jjmcd> I had some thoughts but haven't acted on them yet 11:18 < quaid> +1 11:18 < jjmcd> Prolly need to chat w/Ryan 11:18 < quaid> that's always been the biggest trouble imo 11:18 < ke4qqq> has there been any recruitment via p.fp.o? 11:18 < Sparks> jjmcd: Feel free to share your thoughts 11:18 < Sparks> jjmcd: either here or on the list. 11:18 < quaid> jjmcd: alt. you all could just do stuff and try to pump up the volume. 11:18 < ke4qqq> there was last release but I don't recall seeing any 11:19 < quaid> a lot of noise v. none isn't going to be a problem, is it? 11:19 < jjmcd> I think we do need to push up the volume a bit 11:19 -!- danielsmw [n=danielsm at 130.127.255.239] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:19 * quaid reaches for "11" 11:19 < quaid> see, it's one higher than "10" 11:19 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si at fedora/kital] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:19 < ke4qqq> how appropriate 11:19 -!- lfoppiano [n=lfoppian at fedora/lfoppiano] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:19 < ke4qqq> ahh spinal tap :) 11:20 -!- ldimagg__ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:20 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:20 -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia at p57A2D390.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 11:20 -!- lfoppiano [n=lfoppian at fedora/lfoppiano] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:20 -!- DemonJester [n=DemonJes at fedora/DemonJester] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:21 < Sparks> jjmcd: Well, if you want to write something up please do. We definitely need more people. 11:21 < Sparks> Anything else before we move on? 11:21 -!- lfoppiano [n=lfoppian at fedora/lfoppiano] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:21 < jjmcd> Yeah, I'm heading into report time 11:21 < jjmcd> But need to get on that 11:21 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide 11:21 * jjmcd goes heads-down on paperwork ~10-15th of the month 11:22 < Sparks> jjmcd: Understood 11:22 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:22 < Sparks> Any update on the Installation Guide? 11:22 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:22 < Sparks> I don't remember who has that project. 11:22 * ke4qqq has it 11:22 * quaid whistles 11:22 < quaid> yeah, him! 11:22 < Sparks> :) 11:22 < ke4qqq> Rudi volunteered to help, lcafiero is my editor, and herlo is going to write the missing network auth section 11:23 < ke4qqq> I'd still like more help, but am far better off than last week at this time 11:23 * danielsmw_ sneaks in quietly and takes a seat. 11:23 < ke4qqq> wow that sounded odd 11:23 < ke4qqq> far better off that this time last week 11:23 * ke4qqq gives up at typing 11:23 -!- Gaaruto [n=Gaaruto at fedora/Gaaruto] has quit ["++"] 11:23 < ke4qqq> I've also run through a couple of installs to notice changes in anaconda 11:24 -!- danielsmw_ is now known as danielsmw 11:24 < ke4qqq> but that's about it at the moment 11:24 -!- lfoppiano [n=lfoppian at fedora/lfoppiano] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:24 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Okay. Good deal. 11:24 < Sparks> Anyone have any questions? 11:24 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:24 < quaid> ke4qqq: I'm another hand, pointable at whatever is left on the floor. 11:25 -!- lfoppiano [n=lfoppian at fedora/lfoppiano] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:25 < ke4qqq> quaid: I am trying to disavow knowledge of that at this point 11:25 < ke4qqq> as you'll likely have your hands full 11:25 < ke4qqq> if I get desperate I'll call for help, but I am hoping to pull new bodies to do this. 11:26 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Security Guide 11:26 < Sparks> Well, this is my project... The Brisbane team (mainly Scott) has been working on validating the documentation. I'm still waiting on a few things to be fixed in Publican before I can get the package approved but a PDF is being generated and the docs.fp.o/securityguide is being updated regularly. 11:26 < Sparks> Any questions? 11:26 < quaid> ke4qqq: actually, to be fair, you all are doing such a great job of covering all the angles. 11:26 < quaid> that I found myself unexpectedly light in what I thought I was going to be doing for Docs for this release 11:27 < quaid> so I'm keeping it *all* in reserve for emergencies and pick ups :) 11:27 < ke4qqq> quaid: you ought not jinx us or yourself like that :) 11:27 < jjmcd> Well, you gotta stay loose to watch Lance 11:27 < ke4qqq> Sparks: what's the package blocking on? 11:27 < quaid> <== lighting rod 11:27 < quaid> I can take the shock :) 11:27 < Sparks> quaid: Now go outside... spin around three times and spit! 11:27 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Good golly it is a list! 11:27 < quaid> Sparks: widdershins? 11:28 < ke4qqq> bz ticket #? 11:28 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Apparently Publican matches perfectly for RH packaging standards but not so much with Fedora packaging standards. 11:28 < quaid> done 11:28 < Sparks> ke4qqq: which is amazing because they are supposed to be the same. 11:28 < ke4qqq> :) 11:28 < Sparks> .bug 476471 11:28 < buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=476471 medium, low, ---, petersen at redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Review Request: fedora-security-guide - A security guide for Linux 11:28 < zodbot> Sparks: Bug 476471 Review Request: fedora-security-guide - A security guide for Linux - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=476471 11:28 < buggbot> Bug 476471: medium, low, ---, petersen at redhat.com, ASSIGNED, Review Request: fedora-security-guide - A security guide for Linux 11:28 -!- ldimaggi__ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:29 < Sparks> Well, that was interesting 11:29 < quaid> heh 11:29 < quaid> close 11:29 < Sparks> ke4qqq: So I'm waiting on another version of Publican right now. 11:29 -!- ldimaggi__ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:29 -!- ldimaggi__ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:29 < ke4qqq> k 11:30 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:30 < Sparks> My problems, however, are problems that will affect EVERYONE in Fedora that plan on using Publican for Documentation that will be generating SRPMs 11:31 < Sparks> So I'm trying to identify the problems and have them fixed so Publican will be useable without any slight of hand or trickery. 11:31 < itbegins> Sorry, I'm here now - got called out just as meeting started. fwiw I have nothing to add on the CMS front. 11:31 -!- dwmw2 is now known as dwmw2_gone 11:31 < quaid> +1*10^27 11:31 -!- danielsmw_ [n=danielsm at 130-127-20-68.mauldin.resnet.clemson.edu] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:31 < ke4qqq> cool 11:31 < ke4qqq> yeah what quaid said 11:31 < quaid> so Publican lead developer said he'd take patches, Perl I presume. 11:32 < quaid> otherwise I doubt we'll see this soon enough; I reckon it's not priority to the Publican community that is !Fedora Project 11:32 < Sparks> quaid: He said he'd take them but didn't say what he'd do with them. 11:32 < quaid> Sparks: well, he may argue about implementation details, but unless he's being intentionall disingenuous ... 11:33 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at c-76-19-171-76.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:33 -!- sdziallas_ is now known as sdziallas 11:33 < quaid> one thing that bothers me so far ... 11:33 < quaid> spot: are you around? 11:33 < quaid> I'd like a definitive from spot or tburke that (Fedora packaging standards) == (Red Hat packaging standards) 11:33 < quaid> or an explanation of the difference and exceptions. 11:34 < Sparks> +1 11:34 < quaid> that's more from a general community member perspective, not really a Docs thing. 11:34 < quaid> I grok that there are exceptions, maybe many hundreds, but they shouldn't make the rule or define how tools should behave. 11:35 < quaid> at least, if what we see from the entire QE and RelEng departments are any indication, the two are equivalent. 11:35 < quaid> 11:35 < Sparks> quaid: Well, can you take the tasker to find out what the difference is between RH and F? 11:36 < quaid> Sparks: aye 11:36 < Sparks> quaid: TU 11:36 < Sparks> Anything else? 11:36 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on SELinux Guide 11:37 < Sparks> Okay. This is mdious's project. He isn't awake at this time but I know he's made a lot of progress on this. 11:37 < Sparks> I'll see if I can get more information from him later this week. 11:37 < Sparks> Any questions about this one? 11:37 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si at fedora/kital] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:38 < quaid> is he doing an FN version or does he need it versionless, cf. SEc Guide? 11:38 < quaid> in terms of the packaging name :) 11:38 -!- nim-nim [n=nim-nim at fedora/nim-nim] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:38 < Sparks> quaid: I don't know. I'm pretty sure he'll be in my boat. 11:38 < quaid> yeah, I'm unclear there. 11:38 < quaid> but otherwise it looks freaking great. 11:38 < Sparks> the packaging name issue will be there until Publican is rewritten. 11:39 < Sparks> Okay... Moving on... 11:39 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on User Guide 11:39 < Sparks> This is Matthew's (danielsmw) project and since he usually doesn't get into the meetings until late he sent an email to the list. Did everyone read it? 11:39 < Sparks> danielsmw: You here? 11:39 < danielsmw_> He got here this time though. =) 11:39 < danielsmw_> Yeah, I'm here. 11:39 < danielsmw_> But everyone should have seen my email. 11:39 < danielsmw_> quaid: still planning on doing that at SCaLE? 11:40 < quaid> danielsmw_: darn tootin' 11:40 < quaid> it's in the press release 11:40 < quaid> can't back down now 11:40 < danielsmw_> Okay, great 11:40 < danielsmw_> Well 11:40 * quaid goes to read email to catch right up 11:40 < danielsmw_> A question that I put in the email that I've been thinking about 11:40 < Sparks> danielsmw_: I think I responded to your message with direction on KDE stuff. 11:40 < danielsmw_> is editing directly in XML vs the wiki 11:41 < danielsmw_> Sparks: thanks, let me check it... 11:41 < danielsmw_> Ah, good idea 11:41 < danielsmw_> I'll hop over to fedora-kde later on and try that 11:41 < quaid> danielsmw_: ok, I said some stuff on that earlier this week; did you catch that? 11:41 < Sparks> danielsmw_: the KDE folks seem very helpful and willing to help push "their" packages 11:41 < quaid> on f-docs-l 11:42 < danielsmw_> quaid: Maybe? I usually read the emails but I'm not sure what you mean 11:42 < quaid> in summary, there is an argument that the U_G is a perfect newbie training tool; edit in wiki then help with conversion. 11:42 < danielsmw_> ah, right 11:42 < danielsmw_> yes 11:42 < quaid> v. any other more complex one. 11:42 < quaid> however 11:42 < danielsmw_> Yeah, and I agree with that 11:42 < danielsmw_> So 11:42 < danielsmw_> What I would ideally like to see 11:42 < danielsmw_> Is some hypothetical process where 11:42 < quaid> the other argument is that the wiki is growing as a small-article tool, so we could have people just make the leap, if you feel you can sustain the team. 11:42 < danielsmw_> We... made editing XML very beginner friendly? I'm not sure. 11:43 < danielsmw_> quaid: expand on that? 11:43 < quaid> IMO, the stuff that 'mw-render' pulls from a properly cleaned wiki page 11:43 -!- sonargal [n=Test at fedora/SonarGal] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:43 < quaid> is great learner stuff 11:43 < quaid> you learn how to fit it in to Publican and start editing 11:43 < quaid> but I'm such a non-beginner I might be missing the complexity :) 11:43 < danielsmw_> Heh 11:43 < quaid> danielsmw_: to expand quickly: 11:43 < ke4qqq> it's not 'beginner friendly' - but it's not hard - a few hours and you'll have the basics but the letters X-M-L scare people into thinking it must be akin to writing assembly 11:43 -!- nim-nim [n=nim-nim at fedora/nim-nim] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:44 < jjmcd> Even if it is very beginner friendly, a wiki seems to be less intimidating 11:44 < quaid> if there is enough work on the wiki to keep newbies happy there, then they can just leap to XML when ready; i.e., we don't need a full guide that carries training wheels forever 11:44 < danielsmw_> quaid: okay, I get what you're saying 11:44 < quaid> my gut says we're not there yet, make that an F12 goal perhaps. 11:44 < danielsmw_> Yeah 11:44 < danielsmw_> Either way, that's not my biggest concern right now. 11:45 < danielsmw_> I just want to: 11:45 < danielsmw_> 1. Catch up to the release cycle, and 11:45 < danielsmw_> 2. work on the user friendliness aspects that eawest and I had talked about and started a bit 11:45 -!- iarlyy [n=iarlyy at mail.libertynet.com.br] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:46 < danielsmw_> So, unless anyone has any questions.... that's about it, I think. 11:46 < danielsmw_> The only writers I really have right now are myself, eawest when she's around, 11:46 < danielsmw_> and it looks like I may be pulling in kirk, who just joined the list. 11:46 < quaid> danielsmw_: can we set a priority for chapters or work before the FAD? 11:47 < quaid> that is ... 11:47 < kirkz> danielsmw: happy to do what I can 11:47 < Sparks> danielsmw_: Can you make sure kirk knows where all the resources and such are, please? 11:47 < quaid> either set a priority to chapters, or to content (all GNOME first, etc.), or to the rewrite bits 11:47 < danielsmw_> Sparks: I didn't realize it, but he's right there. 11:47 < Sparks> danielsmw_: There ya go! 11:47 < danielsmw_> kirkz: any questions? 11:47 < quaid> and a plan ... are we going to tackle chapters one at a time and do the full work on it, or split up and specialize. 11:47 < danielsmw_> quaid: Yes, we can do that 11:47 < quaid> i.e., I work on restyling, others work on fact checking updates, etc. 11:47 -!- danielsmw [n=danielsm at 130.127.255.239] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:47 < kirkz> Not smart enough to ask yet :0 11:48 * quaid thinks specialize might work best, but we can also experiment 11:48 < danielsmw_> I'll set priorities this weekend, and then you and I can work on a process 11:48 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:48 -!- danielsmw_ is now known as danielsmw 11:48 -!- mcepl [n=mcepl at 49-117-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has left #fedora-meeting [] 11:48 < quaid> kirkz: just keep asking questions in #fedora-docs :) 11:48 * danielsmw is glad to be rid of that pesky underscore 11:48 < kirkz> quaid: will do 11:48 < quaid> kirkz: for what it's worth, our join process still sucks a bit, so don't overly blame yourself :) 11:48 -!- iarlyy [n=iarlyy at mail.libertynet.com.br] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:49 < Sparks> Okay, we only have about ten minutes left and I have two more topics to discuss. Does anyone have anything else about the User Guide? 11:49 < kirkz> k 11:49 * quaid done 11:49 -!- sdziallas_ [n=sebastia at p57A2BDE6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:49 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Meeting time change 11:49 < Sparks> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FDSCo_meeting_matrix 11:49 < Sparks> If you haven't already posted your availabilities up on the meeting matrix please do so before next Wednesday. I want to get this fixed by then so we can start incorporating more of our team into our meetings. 11:49 -!- JSchmitt [n=s4504kr at p4FDD1624.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 11:50 * Sparks thinks we should also rename everything as we don't really have a FDSCo but rather a Docs Team. 11:50 * jjmcd notes that last he looked there weren't any good times, just less sucky than other times 11:50 * danielsmw agrees 11:50 * danielsmw with sparks. 11:50 < Sparks> jjmcd: danielsmw I think it is ALWAYS going to be that way. 11:50 < jjmcd> yep 11:51 -!- willygarcia_ [n=willygar at 201.251.26.253] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 11:51 < Sparks> Well, we can compile all the data and see where it points us. 11:51 -!- sdziallas [n=sebastia at p57A2E698.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Connection timed out] 11:51 < jjmcd> You would think the IRC gods would gift us with a perfect time 11:51 < Sparks> besides quaid, who else is PST? 11:51 < quaid> not many 11:51 * Sparks is worried about "drive time" PST 11:51 -!- sdziallas_ is now known as sdziallas 11:51 < quaid> apparently no one loves Fedora in Cali 11:52 < Sparks> quaid: You do 11:52 < jjmcd> Well, CA is weird 11:52 < quaid> not many 11:52 < Sparks> Okay... Anything else before I bring up quaid's topic? 11:52 < ke4qqq> quaid doesn't have to worry about 'drive time' does he? 11:52 < Sparks> ke4qqq: I don't think so 11:52 * ke4qqq thought he worked from home and had a never-visited office in mtn view 11:53 < quaid> RHT has an office but I don't have a desk in MTV 11:53 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Which is why I worried about everyone other than quaid 11:53 < ke4qqq> ahhh ok 11:53 < quaid> yeah, drive time doesn't bug me, unless it's also dinner time 11:53 < Sparks> ke4qqq: He's always here! 11:53 * quaid will fill out his stuff 11:53 < Sparks> Anything else? 11:54 -!- fugolini [n=francesc at host213-204-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:54 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - DocsProject wiki page changes 11:54 < Sparks> I think this is quaid's since I saw the message go up on f-wiki-l... 11:54 < Sparks> quaid: So you finally went and did it. 11:54 < quaid> ah, yeah 11:54 < quaid> Sparks: did what? 11:55 < Sparks> quaid: Put it all down on... ummm... paper 11:55 < quaid> heh 11:55 -!- k0k [n=k0k at fedora/k0k] has quit ["Saliendo"] 11:55 < Sparks> quaid: I've been trying to control myself from doing it by hand but it seems we may have to. 11:55 < quaid> yeah, we're stuck on the renaming and categories 11:55 < quaid> or rip and replce 11:55 < quaid> to get our process's cleaned up 11:55 < quaid> I'm also tired of people (/me mumbles no names) who are pointing at crufty process content 11:56 < quaid> as canonical, which is our fault for leaving it there and not updating. 11:56 < quaid> but I cannot see how to do this right without a cleanup/rename or rip/replace. 11:56 < quaid> why you ask? 11:56 < ke4qqq> on that note has ian/G provided an update on wikibot recently? and has there been any documentation of how to handle categories in the wikirename psvs? 11:56 < quaid> because when we get every real process page in [[Category:Docs Project process]] ... 11:56 < quaid> we are going to easily see duplicates and holes. 11:57 < quaid> ke4qqq: ian and I have been poking G, yeah, and last request to get the code in to the f'hosted/fedora-wiki project git 11:57 < Sparks> quaid: Okay, if ianweller can't get the bot cranked up by Friday evening let's get a process started at identifying and renaming all the pages and get them in the proper cats 11:57 < quaid> the .psv helps a lot there 11:58 < quaid> we can use it as a guide in renaming, etc. 11:58 -!- Gaaruto [n=Gaaruto at fedora/Gaaruto] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:58 < Sparks> quaid: Well we might need to put it on the wiki and assign people sections. 11:58 < quaid> the hassle is how many pages there are and linking in going through 120 new redirect pages 11:58 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Baconz at fedora/sonarguy] has quit ["Xchat destroyed by Operating System"] 11:59 < Sparks> quaid: no doubt it will be some work but we have to do it if we are going to be the shining example that we want to be. 11:59 < quaid> word! 11:59 < Sparks> Okay... with seconds left in the hour... anyone have anything else? 11:59 < Sparks> 5 11:59 < Sparks> 4 11:59 < Sparks> 3 11:59 < Sparks> 2 11:59 < Sparks> 1 11:59 < Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming! 12:00 < Sparks> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 12 00:20:08 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:20:08 -0800 Subject: Docs meeting 2009-02-11 Summary Message-ID: <20090212002008.GR2060@calliope.phig.org> Attendees ========= Eric Christensen (Sparks) Paul W. Frields (Stickster) David Nalley (ke4qqq) Kirk Ziegler (kirkz) John J. McDonough (jjmcd) Karsten Wade (quaid) Simon Birtwistle (itbegins) Matthew Daniels (danielsmw*) Agenda & IRC Log ================ https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090211 Summmary ======== * Schedule as set by John Poelstra http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html * Approved by everyone, that's what we're using * CMS Update * ke4qqq working on packaging, worried about 10+ modules that need packaging * Reviewing help may be needed * Test sites are at: http://fedora.zikula.org http://publictest15.fedoraproject.org * Site will need some Websites/CSS help * Release notes * ACTION: jjmcd projects next week for an update to F10 notes * ryanlerch has been making regular updates of F11 notes in DocBook XML http://ryanlerch.fedorapeople.org/Release_Notes/ * ACTION: Sparks requesting voice meeting on talk.fedoraproject.org with jjmcd, ryanlerch, quaid, any other interested * More (much more?!?) work required to get more(!) beat writers * ACTION: Pump up the volume (make more noise) * Installation Guide * Rudi added to IG team, with lcafiero as editor, and herlo working on missing network auth section. * ACTION: ke4qqq looking for more new writers to join * quaid available for any back fill * Security Guide * Scott et al in Brisbane validating documentation * Waiting on Publican fix(es) to get valid RPM https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=476471 * We'd like to see Publican useable for Fedora documentation packaging without any munging/hacking/sleight of hand. * ACTION: quaid to work on the Fedora v. RHEL packaging standards question -- are they equivalent or approximate. * SELinux Guide * No status, mdious not present (sleepy time in Brisbane) * Status sounds good from what people present have heard * User Guide * Part of Fedora Activity Day at SCaLE 7x https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Activity_Day_at_SCaLE_7x#Documentation * Plan to push the Fedora 9 U_G as-is without writing changes and minus some KDE and XFCE content * ACTION: danielsmw to look on #fedora-kde etc. for KDE help for the U_G * FAD to focus on catching up to F10 * ACTION: Priority for content before FAD -- danielsmw * ACTION: Choose a process to work the content -- danielsmw, quaid * Meeting time change * Still looking for a new time, fill out your slot by Wed. 18 Feb: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FDSCo_meeting_matrix * Sparks proposes renaming FDSCo to 'Docs Team' * Page renaming may occur by hand if we cannot get wikibot working on it by Friday 13 Feb. * Use docsproject.psv to guide * Worth the pain to show how it should be -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 12 00:27:56 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:27:56 -0800 Subject: Docs meeting 2009-02-11 Summary In-Reply-To: <20090212002008.GR2060@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090212002008.GR2060@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20090212002756.GS2060@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 04:20:08PM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote: > > * CMS Update > > * ke4qqq working on packaging, worried about 10+ modules that need > packaging > > * Reviewing help may be needed > > * Test sites are at: > > http://fedora.zikula.org > > http://publictest15.fedoraproject.org Corrected URL is: http://publictest15.fedoraproject.org/cms -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Feb 12 00:33:21 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 16:33:21 -0800 Subject: Improving the documentation process In-Reply-To: <20090210160333.GB25415@localhost.localdomain> References: <498BD5B8.9080906@redhat.com> <498FD9A8.9040704@redhat.com> <20090209195125.GJ4142@calliope.phig.org> <4990D344.5000602@redhat.com> <20090210124318.GA1785@localhost.localdomain> <00ac01c98b88$9579f260$c06dd720$@org> <20090210160333.GB25415@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090212003321.GT2060@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:03:33AM -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 02:05:08PM -0000, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > > > I'd swear that you sound like someone who's getting ready to sell us an > > > automated tool to publish to hosting. I'm not saying I for one would > > > turn it down. But would you care to just go ahead and put it on the > > > table so we can look at it and figure out the next steps? > > > > There's someone on the Zikula team writing a module to pull your XML > > documents from source control and publish them into the CMS for displaying > > to the world. We're already working on that, in case it hasn't been clear > > previously. If this isn't useful or needs to change best to let us know > > while the script is still in the early stages. > > > > Theoretically you simply write your docbook XML, commit it when you're done > > and then log into the CMS and hit publish to update the documents. > > Hopefully there will also be a test option where you can publish in a > > private location for checking while avoiding publishing a part finished > > document to the public at large. > > I had read about this module, and just to clarify, I don't want to > throw a spanner/wrench into anyone's works. I think this sounds just > like what Chris is recommending -- a one-click publish to hosting > solution. If there are alternate solutions available, happy to see > them. With the same conditions that brought Zikula here -- a team of people need to deploy and maintain a solution, not throw ideas over the wall to see what sticks. Since Zikula is right now doing *exactly what Chris is asking for* and it's going to also give us handy WebUI content management for all those who prefer that over ... well, however the automated publishing tool in Chris' vision lets team members decide where and when to publish ... plus there is momentum over _here_ for Zikula ... uh, what are we arguing about again? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shajia_khan at yahoo.com Thu Feb 12 18:08:28 2009 From: shajia_khan at yahoo.com (Shajia Khan) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 13:08:28 -0500 Subject: working with wiki Message-ID: <000001c98d3c$e843ee50$b8cbcaf0$@com> Hi Everyone , I am planning to contribute with fedora. In the process I have installed fedora .10 as through a virtual box in my computer ( thanks to the advice of Rahul and Paul) Now I am having problem starting a wiki by myself. I have my account and security clearance long time ago. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki In the link below when I am trying to create 'my new wiki page', the page is not responding. Need some advice again. Regards Shajia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Thu Feb 12 20:18:41 2009 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:18:41 -0600 Subject: working with wiki In-Reply-To: <000001c98d3c$e843ee50$b8cbcaf0$@com> References: <000001c98d3c$e843ee50$b8cbcaf0$@com> Message-ID: <20090212201841.GA17615@gmail.com> On Thu, Feb 12, 2009 at 01:08:28PM -0500, Shajia Khan wrote: > Hi Everyone , > > I am planning to contribute with fedora. In the process I have installed > fedora .10 as through a virtual box in my computer ( thanks to the advice of > Rahul and Paul) Now I am having problem starting a wiki by myself. > > > > > > I have my account and security clearance long time ago. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/WritingUsingTheWiki > > > > In the link below when I am trying to create 'my new wiki page', the page is > not responding. > Odds are you hit the outage that happened recently. http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-infrastructure-list/2009-February/msg00126.html -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Feb 13 17:32:55 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 09:32:55 -0800 Subject: [bugzilla@redhat.com: [relnotes] fedora_requires_release_note granted: [Bug 444814] Amharaic defaults to native input] Message-ID: <20090213173255.GA4287@calliope.phig.org> If any of you who are working on the release notes didn't get this email ... then it's time to join the fedora-relnotes-content at redhat.com list that receives the relnotes at fedoraproject.org bugzilla email. http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-relnotes-content ----- Forwarded message from bugzilla at redhat.com ----- Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2009 12:43:51 -0500 From: bugzilla at redhat.com To: relnotes at fedoraproject.org X-BeenThere: bugzilla at redhat.com Cc: Subject: [relnotes] fedora_requires_release_note granted: [Bug 444814] Amharaic defaults to native input X-BeenThere: fedora-relnotes-content at redhat.com Product: Fedora Version: rawhide Component: gtk2 Matthias Clasen has granted fedora_requires_release_note: Bug 444814: Amharaic defaults to native input https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=444814 ------- Additional Comments from Matthias Clasen This should get mentioned in the F11 release notes, in the Internationalization section: The 'native' input method modules that used to be shipped with gtk2 have been moved to a separate gtk2-immodules package. If you've previously used 'native' GTK+ input methods, e.g. by setting the GTK_IM_MODULE environment variable, or by relying on GTK+ picking an input method based on the locale, you may have to install the gtk2-immodules package. Users of the default input method framework (scim/ibus) are not affected by this change. -- Fedora-relnotes-content mailing list Fedora-relnotes-content at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-relnotes-content ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Fri Feb 13 23:19:34 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 04:49:34 +0530 Subject: AGBeta Message-ID: <78323d480902131519u744f7607qd21124985dece27a@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 If this is the latest version of the AG guide: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta/ Shall I improve the 'Managing Storage and Partitions' part? Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmWAGEACgkQunMISzvdfU49oQCfVpgNsKqzlP8Ky9s7EcW5Sm9n DJsAnjKruOo4XceLCOR61p+UmkrrzHAx =jou5 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 02:45:50 2009 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 12:45:50 +1000 Subject: AGBeta In-Reply-To: <78323d480902131519u744f7607qd21124985dece27a@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480902131519u744f7607qd21124985dece27a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0902131845g1e1335bax3f0b20d660dc2800@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Mani A wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > If this is the latest version of the AG guide: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta/ > > Shall I improve the 'Managing Storage and Partitions' part? > > > Best > > A. Mani > > > -- > A. Mani > Member, Cal. Math. Soc There is content (see the "Sections" section) here: Not sure if that is more up to date though. Cheers. From karstenwade at gmail.com Sat Feb 14 17:46:35 2009 From: karstenwade at gmail.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sat, 14 Feb 2009 09:46:35 -0800 Subject: AGBeta In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0902131845g1e1335bax3f0b20d660dc2800@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480902131519u744f7607qd21124985dece27a@mail.gmail.com> <95f1114b0902131845g1e1335bax3f0b20d660dc2800@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 6:45 PM, Murray McAllister wrote: > On Sat, Feb 14, 2009 at 9:19 AM, Mani A wrote: >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> If this is the latest version of the AG guide: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/AGBeta/ >> >> Shall I improve the 'Managing Storage and Partitions' part? >> >> >> Best >> >> A. Mani >> >> >> -- >> A. Mani >> Member, Cal. Math. Soc > There is content (see the "Sections" section) here: > > That guide is not being worked on for Fedora 11. That is, I'm not trying to discourage people from doing work, but the team decided to only work on guides that have document leads and a team to work on them. We seem to have our hands full with what was chosen, too. If anyone wants to take on the lead for that guide, the overall team needs to think about the resource usage, distraction, and value. One other consideration is that much of the content in an Administration Guide for Fedora duplicates what can be found in the Red Hat Deployment Guide: http://www.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/5/html/Deployment_Guide/index.html Some folks have been working on release that content to be worked on in the community under the name 'Linux Deployment Guide': http://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide If we head off in another direction right now, I'd guess we would be duplicating work that could be done from within that Deployment Guide. It would be a shame to do that, although I reckon we cannot wait forever for the Deployment Guide content to be opened. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade http://iquaid.org From kirk202 at q.com Sun Feb 15 23:54:40 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 16:54:40 -0700 Subject: Rookie needs help Message-ID: Is there a link to something like a "writer's guide," for us rookies? I don't know if, or what, we can add to the document pages. Are we limited to the programs loaded at Fedora's installation? I've been working on the Communications page of the User-Guide for F10, https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Communications&action=edit If someone has the time to look it over and let me know what I need to change I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd like to start on another page but would like to know whether or not I'm doing it correctly. Yesterday I discovered I should have been keeping track of all of the changes. The biggest changes I made were: 1. Added Claws Mail..should I delete it? 2. Putting the icons at the under the Heading at the introductory statement without the statement that its the "default icon for the program." I think I need to change some of the icons because they are different in the F10 that I'm running vs. those in the F9 guide that I used as place-holders. 3. The TOC was under the introduction (F9) and I can't get it place anywhere except the top, no matter where I try to put it in the body of the page. Where's it supposed to be? Finally, the Communications page doesn't have an IRC program, ie, X-Chat, or Chatzilla, maybe due to our guidelines? Thanks, Kirk Ziegler From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 16 04:36:46 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:36:46 -0500 Subject: Rookie needs help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kirk Inline reply follows. On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Kirk wrote: > Is there a link to something like a "writer's guide," for us rookies? > I don't know if, or what, we can add to the document pages. Are we > limited to the programs loaded at Fedora's installation? We have a style guide. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide That said - it's just about impossible to know what programs are loaded at installation for any given machine, so the answer is no. > > I've been working on the Communications page of the User-Guide for F10, > https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Communications&action=edit > > If someone has the time to look it over and let me know what I need to > change I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd like to start on another page > but would like to know whether or not I'm doing it correctly. > > Yesterday I discovered I should have been keeping track of all of the > changes. The biggest changes I made were: > > 1. Added Claws Mail..should I delete it? > > 2. Putting the icons at the under the Heading at the > introductory statement without the statement that its the "default icon > for the program." I think I need to change some of the icons because > they are different in the F10 that I'm running vs. those in the F9 guide > that I used as place-holders. Could be - feel free to do so if appropriate. > > 3. The TOC was under the introduction (F9) and I can't get it place > anywhere except the top, no matter where I try to put it in the body of > the page. Where's it supposed to be? Don't worry about that - it will go away when you move to Docbook - just concentrate on content. That said you add non-Hx content prior to the Hx and it appears above the ToC. > > Finally, the Communications page doesn't have an IRC program, ie, > X-Chat, or Chatzilla, maybe due to our guidelines? That's probably an oversight. Since fp.o uses IRC as a main communications channel we should definitely include IRC in my opinion. I'd think x-chat for Gnome and konversation for KDE. Thanks for starting your work with the Docs Project. David Nalley From kirk202 at q.com Mon Feb 16 05:12:55 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Sun, 15 Feb 2009 22:12:55 -0700 Subject: Rookie needs help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:36:46 -0500 David Nalley wrote: > Hi Kirk > > Inline reply follows. > > On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Kirk wrote: > > Is there a link to something like a "writer's guide," for us > > rookies? I don't know if, or what, we can add to the document > > pages. Are we limited to the programs loaded at Fedora's > > installation? > > We have a style guide. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide > > That said - it's just about impossible to know what programs are > loaded at installation for any given machine, so the answer is no. > > > > > > I've been working on the Communications page of the User-Guide for > > F10, > > https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Communications&action=edit > > > > If someone has the time to look it over and let me know what I need > > to change I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd like to start on another > > page but would like to know whether or not I'm doing it correctly. > > > > Yesterday I discovered I should have been keeping track of all of > > the changes. The biggest changes I made were: > > > > 1. Added Claws Mail..should I delete it? > > > > 2. Putting the icons at the under the Heading at the > > introductory statement without the statement that its the "default > > icon for the program." I think I need to change some of the icons > > because they are different in the F10 that I'm running vs. those in > > the F9 guide that I used as place-holders. > > Could be - feel free to do so if appropriate. > > > > > > 3. The TOC was under the introduction (F9) and I can't get it place > > anywhere except the top, no matter where I try to put it in the > > body of the page. Where's it supposed to be? > > Don't worry about that - it will go away when you move to Docbook - > just concentrate on content. > That said you add non-Hx content prior to the Hx and it appears above > the ToC. > > > > > Finally, the Communications page doesn't have an IRC program, ie, > > X-Chat, or Chatzilla, maybe due to our guidelines? > > That's probably an oversight. Since fp.o uses IRC as a main > communications channel we should definitely include IRC in my opinion. > I'd think x-chat for Gnome and konversation for KDE. > > > > Thanks for starting your work with the Docs Project. > > David Nalley > Thanks David. This is very helpful. (Hope I'm replying to this correctly) Appreciate the link to the Style Guide. I'm excited working with the Docs Project, albeit lots to learn. I'll work on x-chat & Konversation tomorrow and read the Style Guide as well. What's non_Hx content, Hx and fp.o? Kirk Ziegler From danielsmw at gmail.com Mon Feb 16 13:57:56 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 08:57:56 -0500 Subject: Rookie needs help In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: +1 to updating icons and adding irc clients. Adding clawsmail is a good thing in my opinion; in the past, it seems like we've stuck to the defaults for things like communications, but I see no reason that a well written section on a nondefault application shouldn't be put in the UG as long as it is maintained. I'd be curious to hear other opinions on that. Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier, kirk; everyone should know that my laptop is in the shop and I'm having some issues getting a loaner, so most of my computing is via iPod, I.e. Iimited. -Matthew Sent from my iPod On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:12 AM, Kirk wrote: > On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:36:46 -0500 > David Nalley wrote: > >> Hi Kirk >> >> Inline reply follows. >> >> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Kirk wrote: >>> Is there a link to something like a "writer's guide," for us >>> rookies? I don't know if, or what, we can add to the document >>> pages. Are we limited to the programs loaded at Fedora's >>> installation? >> >> We have a style guide. >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide >> >> That said - it's just about impossible to know what programs are >> loaded at installation for any given machine, so the answer is no. >> >> >>> >>> I've been working on the Communications page of the User-Guide for >>> F10, >>> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Communications&action=edit >>> >>> If someone has the time to look it over and let me know what I need >>> to change I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd like to start on another >>> page but would like to know whether or not I'm doing it correctly. >>> >>> Yesterday I discovered I should have been keeping track of all of >>> the changes. The biggest changes I made were: >>> >>> 1. Added Claws Mail..should I delete it? >>> >>> 2. Putting the icons at the under the Heading at the >>> introductory statement without the statement that its the "default >>> icon for the program." I think I need to change some of the icons >>> because they are different in the F10 that I'm running vs. those in >>> the F9 guide that I used as place-holders. >> >> Could be - feel free to do so if appropriate. >> >> >>> >>> 3. The TOC was under the introduction (F9) and I can't get it place >>> anywhere except the top, no matter where I try to put it in the >>> body of the page. Where's it supposed to be? >> >> Don't worry about that - it will go away when you move to Docbook - >> just concentrate on content. >> That said you add non-Hx content prior to the Hx and it appears above >> the ToC. >> >>> >>> Finally, the Communications page doesn't have an IRC program, ie, >>> X-Chat, or Chatzilla, maybe due to our guidelines? >> >> That's probably an oversight. Since fp.o uses IRC as a main >> communications channel we should definitely include IRC in my >> opinion. >> I'd think x-chat for Gnome and konversation for KDE. >> >> >> >> Thanks for starting your work with the Docs Project. >> >> David Nalley >> > Thanks David. This is very helpful. (Hope I'm replying to this > correctly) Appreciate the link to the Style Guide. I'm excited > working with the Docs Project, albeit lots to learn. > > I'll work on x-chat & Konversation tomorrow and read the Style Guide > as > well. > > What's non_Hx content, Hx and fp.o? > > Kirk Ziegler > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From wb8rcr at arrl.net Mon Feb 16 14:31:43 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:31:43 -0500 Subject: Rookie needs help References: Message-ID: <5F8F7DACE22C4F19B21CBA971516244E@Aidan> I don't think that is a bad plan at all for general appeal applications. I have begun work on some "user guide" types of information for amateur radio applications. I tend to think that for these more specialized audiences, the wiki might be a better place. We have a LOT of specialized applications buried in those 11,000+ packages, and a UG that tried to describe a significant fraction of them would be unweildy. I would also like to see more information on how to use the development applications. Heck, even some sort of categorization could be a big help there. But again, that doesn't "feel" like it belongs in the UG. Perhaps there should be a developer's guide (no, I'm not volunteering ;-) I'm not familiar with clawsmail, but certainly things like xchat-gnome and konversation seem like good candidates. I think there are about a half-dozen IRC capable applications, some of them overlap the IM apps, but it would be nice to see them all described and perhaps compared. --McD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matthew Daniels" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Cc: Sent: Monday, February 16, 2009 8:57 AM Subject: Re: Rookie needs help > +1 to updating icons and adding irc clients. > > Adding clawsmail is a good thing in my opinion; in the past, it seems > like we've stuck to the defaults for things like communications, but I > see no reason that a well written section on a nondefault application > shouldn't be put in the UG as long as it is maintained. I'd be curious to > hear other opinions on that. > > Sorry I didn't get back to you earlier, kirk; everyone should know that > my laptop is in the shop and I'm having some issues getting a loaner, so > most of my computing is via iPod, I.e. Iimited. > > -Matthew > > Sent from my iPod > > On Feb 16, 2009, at 12:12 AM, Kirk wrote: > >> On Sun, 15 Feb 2009 23:36:46 -0500 >> David Nalley wrote: >> >>> Hi Kirk >>> >>> Inline reply follows. >>> >>> On Sun, Feb 15, 2009 at 6:54 PM, Kirk wrote: >>>> Is there a link to something like a "writer's guide," for us >>>> rookies? I don't know if, or what, we can add to the document >>>> pages. Are we limited to the programs loaded at Fedora's >>>> installation? >>> >>> We have a style guide. >>> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/StyleGuide >>> >>> That said - it's just about impossible to know what programs are >>> loaded at installation for any given machine, so the answer is no. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> I've been working on the Communications page of the User-Guide for >>>> F10, >>>> https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Communications&action=edit >>>> >>>> If someone has the time to look it over and let me know what I need >>>> to change I'd greatly appreciate it. I'd like to start on another >>>> page but would like to know whether or not I'm doing it correctly. >>>> >>>> Yesterday I discovered I should have been keeping track of all of >>>> the changes. The biggest changes I made were: >>>> >>>> 1. Added Claws Mail..should I delete it? >>>> >>>> 2. Putting the icons at the under the Heading at the >>>> introductory statement without the statement that its the "default >>>> icon for the program." I think I need to change some of the icons >>>> because they are different in the F10 that I'm running vs. those in >>>> the F9 guide that I used as place-holders. >>> >>> Could be - feel free to do so if appropriate. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> 3. The TOC was under the introduction (F9) and I can't get it place >>>> anywhere except the top, no matter where I try to put it in the >>>> body of the page. Where's it supposed to be? >>> >>> Don't worry about that - it will go away when you move to Docbook - >>> just concentrate on content. >>> That said you add non-Hx content prior to the Hx and it appears above >>> the ToC. >>> >>>> >>>> Finally, the Communications page doesn't have an IRC program, ie, >>>> X-Chat, or Chatzilla, maybe due to our guidelines? >>> >>> That's probably an oversight. Since fp.o uses IRC as a main >>> communications channel we should definitely include IRC in my opinion. >>> I'd think x-chat for Gnome and konversation for KDE. >>> >>> >>> >>> Thanks for starting your work with the Docs Project. >>> >>> David Nalley >>> >> Thanks David. This is very helpful. (Hope I'm replying to this >> correctly) Appreciate the link to the Style Guide. I'm excited >> working with the Docs Project, albeit lots to learn. >> >> I'll work on x-chat & Konversation tomorrow and read the Style Guide as >> well. >> >> What's non_Hx content, Hx and fp.o? >> >> Kirk Ziegler >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From kwade at redhat.com Mon Feb 16 17:24:35 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 09:24:35 -0800 Subject: Confusion updating release notes In-Reply-To: <1234582793.2831.65.camel@diet-anarchy.localdomain> References: <1234582793.2831.65.camel@diet-anarchy.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090216172435.GQ4287@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Feb 13, 2009 at 10:39:53PM -0500, Christopher Beland wrote: > We've made some changes directly to the Alpha release notes on the wiki, > which is not what the Process page says to do, but it's unclear it's > being followed. I just wanted to make sure our changes aren't lost, and > to find someone who can authoritatively update the Process page or tell > people they should be following it more closely. 8) That is fine. We use the Alpha notes to make the Beta notes, then the content is rolled in to the final release notes. Sometimes it's better ot use the common bugs page, or at least to make sure there is a cross-reference from the wiki-based notes to the common bugs when there are common bugs. You are correct, our process content is out of date and inconsistent. I'm Cc:'ing the Docs Project list so that others working on these processes can help get them updated. Thanks for trying to do things the right way! - Karsten > Thanks, > > Beland > > -------- Forwarded Message -------- > > From: Matthias Clasen > > Reply-To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases > > > > To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases > > > > Subject: Re: Ctrl-Alt-Backspace change > > Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:53:59 -0500 > > > > On Mon, 2009-02-09 at 03:03 -0500, Christopher Beland wrote: > > > Some people on this list have requested additional information about > > > this change be added to the release notes, but I'm not sure how to do > > > this. This page is supposed to explain the process of producing > > > release notes: > > > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Process > > > > > > The confusing part is that I cannot find any links that page or > > > anywhere under https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject to the > > > Fedora 11 Alpha Release Notes > > > (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Alpha_release_notes, found > > > with Google). Should the notes be linked in, or are Rawhide notes > > > intentionally hidden? > > > > > > The process page says that the Alpha release notes are supposed to > > > have a link to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats > > > soliciting contributions, but there is no such link. > > > > > > Most importantly, it's also very unclear where to update content at > > > the moment. If you edit the Alpha release notes directly, will this > > > change make it into the final release notes? The process page seems > > > to imply that release notes simply summarize or are pulled from the > > > Beats page, but there isn't any information in the Xorg beat about > > > this change (and I don't think there ever has been). > > > > That is because, just like you, I couldn't really figure out the process > > I was expected to follow, and just added the section to the alpha > > release notes directly. > > > > > << > > > > > > If /etc/X11/xorg.conf does not exist, create it by running this command > > > as root: > > > > > > Xorg -configure > > > > > > The Xorg project has changed the default DontZap setting to "true" > > > after complaints from desktop users that accidentally hit > > > Ctrl+Alt+Backspace when trying to type Alt+Backspace, Ctrl+Backspace, > > > or Shift+Backspace, or who had StickyKeys enabled. Ctrl+Alt+Backspace > > > is also a keyboard shortcut for deleting certain expressions in C and > > > Java modes in Emacs. > > > > > > << > > > > > > Is that correct? > > > > Sounds very good to me. > > > -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Feb 17 03:06:50 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 22:06:50 -0500 Subject: Docs Project Meeting Day/Time change Message-ID: <1234840010.23478.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> If you have not done so and would like your schedule to be considered before a decision is made on the Docs Project meeting day/time change please make your availability known on the wiki [1]! [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FDSCo_meeting_matrix Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks at fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kirk202 at q.com Tue Feb 17 06:18:38 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Mon, 16 Feb 2009 23:18:38 -0700 Subject: Question on Hx Message-ID: What's Hx & non_Hx content? Thanks for the help. Kirk Ziegler From ccurran at redhat.com Tue Feb 17 06:46:43 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:46:43 +1000 Subject: Docs meeting 2009-02-11 Summary In-Reply-To: <20090212002008.GR2060@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090212002008.GR2060@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <499A5D53.50805@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > * ACTION: quaid to work on the Fedora v. RHEL packaging > standards question -- are they equivalent or approximate. > > > Standards? Really? What about phpPgAdmin? or python-sexy? or perl-Net-LibIDN? or PyKDE4? Do they all follow the 'standards' too? Can I have a link to where the fedora standard is documented with rules prohibiting anything other than characters which don't work? Chris From ccurran at redhat.com Tue Feb 17 06:51:40 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:51:40 +1000 Subject: Docs meeting 2009-02-11 Summary In-Reply-To: <499A5D53.50805@redhat.com> References: <20090212002008.GR2060@calliope.phig.org> <499A5D53.50805@redhat.com> Message-ID: <499A5E7C.2000102@redhat.com> Christopher Curran wrote: > Karsten Wade wrote: >> * ACTION: quaid to work on the Fedora v. RHEL packaging >> standards question -- are they equivalent or approximate. >> >> >> > Standards? Really? What about phpPgAdmin? or python-sexy? or > perl-Net-LibIDN? or PyKDE4? > > Do they all follow the 'standards' too? Can I have a link to where the > fedora standard is documented with rules prohibiting anything other > than characters which don't work? > > Chris > FYI: I am a fedora package maintainer, I'm interested to see where the rules differ. I would like that link for further reference. Chris From stickster at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 14:12:38 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 09:12:38 -0500 Subject: Docs meeting 2009-02-11 Summary In-Reply-To: <499A5E7C.2000102@redhat.com> References: <20090212002008.GR2060@calliope.phig.org> <499A5D53.50805@redhat.com> <499A5E7C.2000102@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090217141238.GF1965@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 04:51:40PM +1000, Christopher Curran wrote: > Christopher Curran wrote: >> Karsten Wade wrote: >>> * ACTION: quaid to work on the Fedora v. RHEL packaging >>> standards question -- are they equivalent or approximate. >>> >>> >>> >> Standards? Really? What about phpPgAdmin? or python-sexy? or >> perl-Net-LibIDN? or PyKDE4? >> >> Do they all follow the 'standards' too? Can I have a link to where the >> fedora standard is documented with rules prohibiting anything other >> than characters which don't work? >> > FYI: I am a fedora package maintainer, I'm interested to see where the > rules differ. I would like that link for further reference. I'm confused as to your actual question above. But in any case, the package review guidelines start here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/ReviewGuidelines -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirk202 at q.com Tue Feb 17 19:49:26 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 12:49:26 -0700 Subject: Need help proofing Message-ID: I think I've finished the F10 User Guide Communications page at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Communications I'd appreciate any proofing you can do, when you can. I've read and re-read it so many times I don't think I could see any mistakes, no matter how glaring. Your critiques and suggestions are also welcome. Thanks, Kirk Ziegler From danielsmw at gmail.com Tue Feb 17 20:33:58 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:33:58 -0500 Subject: User Guide Priorities for FAD Message-ID: <17cd57cf0902171233qea596edwfb46847394d9c4cf@mail.gmail.com> At the FAD this Friday, a group will be working on editing the User Guide. This is a great opportunity to get a lot done for the UG, so it's important that we outline some priorities on what needs to be done. Currently, the F9 guide is virtually done and we've starting working on the F10 version. You may have seen Kirk's work on the Communication page which is the beginning of our F10 update. This Friday, then, all UG work will basically be for the F10 guide unless someone sees a good reason why that wouldn't make sense. (*) One big move I'd think would be good for the F10 guide is to start cleaning up pages so that procedures are standardized. This would mean, for example, having one very good description about how to install a package that can be referenced for every installation instruction instead of having 12 different versions of this description which are difficult to maintain. Increasing the maintainability of the guide will mean that we have more time to work on expanding content and cleaning up style, which is a compromise I'm willing to make for the loss of some inline convenience. The priorities for this Friday, then, can be split into categories. I really don't see any clear priorities for content; I would suggest avoiding the Introduction, perhaps, but besides that all content has a pretty equivalent need to be written. It may be wise to do the more fundamental pages first; for example, writing the desktop tours, the installing software page, and connecting to the internet would give a better foundation for writing other pages. Separately, the style of our pages can be userfriendlified. Grammar, fact, and typo checks are easy, but it would be good to have some people go through and look for bias, unqualified jargon, and unnecessary presumptions to be cleaned up. We can also have people brainstorming and drawing out how we can work out what I mentioned in the starred paragraph above. Finally, if we have more experienced contributers there, the F9 can be XML-ified. This has been done partially, but I don't think it's been finished. Please, fellow Fedorans, give me feedback! -Matthew -- _____________________________ Reply To: danielsmw at gmail.com From kirk202 at q.com Tue Feb 17 20:46:06 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:46:06 -0700 Subject: User Guide Priorities for FAD In-Reply-To: <17cd57cf0902171233qea596edwfb46847394d9c4cf@mail.gmail.com> References: <17cd57cf0902171233qea596edwfb46847394d9c4cf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:33:58 -0500 Matthew Daniels wrote: >I'm with you! - Kirk Z At the FAD this Friday, a group will be working on editing the User > Guide. This is a great opportunity to get a lot done for the UG, so > it's important that we outline some priorities on what needs to be > done. > > Currently, the F9 guide is virtually done and we've starting working > on the F10 version. You may have seen Kirk's work on the > Communication page which is the beginning of our F10 update. This > Friday, then, all UG work will basically be for the F10 guide unless > someone sees a good reason why that wouldn't make sense. > > (*) One big move I'd think would be good for the F10 guide is to start > cleaning up pages so that procedures are standardized. This would > mean, for example, having one very good description about how to > install a package that can be referenced for every installation > instruction instead of having 12 different versions of this > description which are difficult to maintain. Increasing the > maintainability of the guide will mean that we have more time to work > on expanding content and cleaning up style, which is a compromise I'm > willing to make for the loss of some inline convenience. > > The priorities for this Friday, then, can be split into categories. I > really don't see any clear priorities for content; I would suggest > avoiding the Introduction, perhaps, but besides that all content has a > pretty equivalent need to be written. It may be wise to do the more > fundamental pages first; for example, writing the desktop tours, the > installing software page, and connecting to the internet would give a > better foundation for writing other pages. > > Separately, the style of our pages can be userfriendlified. Grammar, > fact, and typo checks are easy, but it would be good to have some > people go through and look for bias, unqualified jargon, and > unnecessary presumptions to be cleaned up. > > We can also have people brainstorming and drawing out how we can work > out what I mentioned in the starred paragraph above. Finally, if we > have more experienced contributers there, the F9 can be XML-ified. > This has been done partially, but I don't think it's been finished. > > Please, fellow Fedorans, give me feedback! > > -Matthew > From kwade at redhat.com Tue Feb 17 21:12:07 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 13:12:07 -0800 Subject: Question on Hx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090217211207.GY4287@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:18:38PM -0700, Kirk wrote: > > What's Hx & non_Hx content? Can you provide more context? I don't recognize these terms. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirk202 at q.com Tue Feb 17 21:33:17 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:33:17 -0700 Subject: Question on Hx In-Reply-To: <20090217211207.GY4287@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090217211207.GY4287@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: I had asked if there was a way to move the TOC from the top of the page, I doesn't matter where I put in the body of the page it still ends up on the top. Here's a copy to the email: >>>> 3. The TOC was under the introduction (F9) and I can't get it >>>> place anywhere except the top, no matter where I try to put it in the >>>> body of the page. Where's it supposed to be? >>> >>> Don't worry about that - it will go away when you move to Docbook - >>> just concentrate on content. >>> That said you add non-Hx content prior to the Hx and it appears >>> above the ToC. Kirk Z. > On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:18:38PM -0700, Kirk wrote: > > > > What's Hx & non_Hx content? > > Can you provide more context? I don't recognize these terms. > > - Karsten From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Tue Feb 17 21:48:47 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:48:47 -0500 Subject: Question on Hx In-Reply-To: References: <20090217211207.GY4287@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: oh H1's are forbidden by our wiki czar, but are set off by =This is h1= ==H2 are noted this way==, etc down to about H7 iirc. non Hx content is just typing without any surrounding '=' On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Kirk wrote: > I had asked if there was a way to move the TOC from the top of the > page, I doesn't matter where I put in the body of the page it still > ends up on the top. > > Here's a copy to the email: > >>>>> 3. The TOC was under the introduction (F9) and I can't get it >>>>> place > anywhere except the top, no matter where I try to put it in the >>>>> body of the page. Where's it supposed to be? >>>> >>>> Don't worry about that - it will go away when you move to Docbook - >>>> just concentrate on content. >>>> That said you add non-Hx content prior to the Hx and it appears >>>> above > the ToC. > > Kirk Z. > > > >> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:18:38PM -0700, Kirk wrote: >> > >> > What's Hx & non_Hx content? >> >> Can you provide more context? I don't recognize these terms. >> >> - Karsten > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From kirk202 at q.com Tue Feb 17 22:34:08 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:34:08 -0700 Subject: Question on Hx In-Reply-To: References: <20090217211207.GY4287@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 16:48:47 -0500 David Nalley wrote: Thanks for the info. - Kirk Z > oh H1's are forbidden by our wiki czar, but are set off by =This is > h1= ==H2 are noted this way==, etc down to about H7 iirc. > non Hx content is just typing without any surrounding '=' > > On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Kirk wrote: > > I had asked if there was a way to move the TOC from the top of the > > page, I doesn't matter where I put in the body of the page it still > > ends up on the top. > > > > Here's a copy to the email: > > > >>>>> 3. The TOC was under the introduction (F9) and I can't get it > >>>>> place > > anywhere except the top, no matter where I try to put it in the > >>>>> body of the page. Where's it supposed to be? > >>>> > >>>> Don't worry about that - it will go away when you move to > >>>> Docbook - just concentrate on content. > >>>> That said you add non-Hx content prior to the Hx and it appears > >>>> above > > the ToC. > > > > Kirk Z. > > > > > > > >> On Mon, Feb 16, 2009 at 11:18:38PM -0700, Kirk wrote: > >> > > >> > What's Hx & non_Hx content? > >> > >> Can you provide more context? I don't recognize these terms. > >> > >> - Karsten > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Feb 18 00:21:40 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:21:40 -0500 Subject: Question on Hx References: <20090217211207.GY4287@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Nalley" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:48 PM Subject: Re: Question on Hx > oh H1's are forbidden by our wiki czar It really works out well to have a wikiczar, doesn't it. We can blame all sorts of stuff on him! --McD From kirk202 at q.com Wed Feb 18 00:29:34 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:29:34 -0700 Subject: Question on Hx In-Reply-To: References: <20090217211207.GY4287@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: Cool :-) Works for me! Good to know we have someone we can blame it all on. Kirk Z > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Nalley" > To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" > > Sent: Tuesday, February 17, 2009 4:48 PM > Subject: Re: Question on Hx > > > > oh H1's are forbidden by our wiki czar > > It really works out well to have a wikiczar, doesn't it. We can > blame all sorts of stuff on him! > > --McD > > From kirk202 at q.com Wed Feb 18 00:42:54 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:42:54 -0700 Subject: Formatting Question for Lists Message-ID: Hi All, I've got number 1. for the first subsection, and the indents are good too. But the second subsection starts over again with number 1., then 2, then 3. The subsection numbers were fine ( 1 - 4 ) until I added the indents. Maybe I'm trying to mix apples & oranges? # The first subsection allows quick access to commonly accessed folders, and makes it easy to keep your file system organized. These links are: :::* ''Home Folder'' where your personal files are kept by default. :::* ''Desktop'' which is the main work area on your computer. :::* ''Bookmarks'' list several of the last folders opened. # The second subsection allows quick access to the CD/DVD creator tool, and ............................................................ # The third subsection......................................... Thanks, Kirk Z From ianweller at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 02:39:08 2009 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:39:08 -0600 Subject: Formatting Question for Lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090218023908.GA24215@gmail.com> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 05:42:54PM -0700, Kirk wrote: > Hi All, > > I've got number 1. for the first > subsection, and the indents are good too. But the second subsection > starts over again with number 1., then 2, then 3. > > The subsection numbers were fine ( 1 - 4 ) until I added the indents. > Maybe I'm trying to mix apples & oranges? > > # The first subsection allows quick access to commonly accessed > folders, and makes it easy to keep your file system organized. > These links are: > > :::* ''Home Folder'' where your personal files are kept by default. > :::* ''Desktop'' which is the main work area on your computer. > :::* ''Bookmarks'' list several of the last folders opened. > > # The second subsection allows quick access to the CD/DVD creator tool, > and ............................................................ > > # The third subsection......................................... > # First step #* Bullet #* Another bullet #* Woo bullets # Second step -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Wed Feb 18 02:40:13 2009 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:40:13 -0600 Subject: Question on Hx In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090218024013.GB24215@gmail.com> On Tue, Feb 17, 2009 at 07:21:40PM -0500, John J. McDonough wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Nalley" >> oh H1's are forbidden by our wiki czar > > It really works out well to have a wikiczar, doesn't it. We can blame > all sorts of stuff on him! > I heard that :) The reason we forbid H1s is because your article name represents the H1. -- Ian Weller http://ianweller.org GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 "Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet." ~ Douglas Adams -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirk202 at q.com Wed Feb 18 04:05:50 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:05:50 -0700 Subject: Formatting Question for Lists In-Reply-To: <20090218023908.GA24215@gmail.com> References: <20090218023908.GA24215@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 17 Feb 2009 20:39:08 -0600 Ian Weller wrote: > > # First step > #* Bullet > #* Another bullet > #* Woo bullets > # Second step > Thanks for the help, on the Hx too. Kirk Z. From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 18 06:17:59 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 17 Feb 2009 22:17:59 -0800 Subject: Remote FAD'ing Message-ID: <20090218061759.GG4287@calliope.phig.org> Our goal this coming Friday is to be connected to a Fedora Talk conference room throughout the Activity Day. In addition to IRC, this will facilitate communication with people involved in the User Guide, font packaging, or OLPC/Sugar related to the activity day goals. sip:2008 at talk.fedoraproject.org You can set your VoIP password via your Fedora account, and read up on the talk service: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/asterisk/ http://talk.fedoraproject.org/ For example, if you cannot get a softphone or hardphone VoIP client to work, you can use a dial-in number instead. According to the schedule[1], we'll work to keep a conference line open during these times PST (UTC): 10 am (1800 UTC) to 6 pm (0200 UTC) There is a lunch in there, but ideally we'll be ordering take-out. There is a dinner on the schedule, but we also have BoF in the same room starting at 7 pm PST, so it's probable that dinner will also be a take out affair or conducted late (after 8 pm.) Talk with you then, - Karsten [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Activity_Day_at_SCaLE_7x#Schedule -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Feb 18 18:31:54 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:31:54 -0800 Subject: Docs help requested for Feature Page Summary Message-ID: <499C541A.5060008@redhat.com> Hi Docs People, I'm wondering of there are any people who would be willing to do their word-smithing magic on the text for this page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/FeatureList This page gets a lot of exposure and is read by a lot of different audiences, including the media. I'd like to make sure it is understandable and reads as well as it can. The summary that accompanies each feature name is particularly important. For the most part the summary comes directly from the individual feature page. Thanks, John From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Feb 18 18:38:41 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 13:38:41 -0500 Subject: Reminder to Sparks: Meeting Message-ID: And everyone else, too. Docs project meeting at 1900Z --McD From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Feb 18 20:08:31 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 15:08:31 -0500 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2009-02-18 IRC log Message-ID: <1234987711.14700.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Feb 18 14:00:30 Feb 18 14:00:32 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings Feb 18 14:00:39 Roll Call! Feb 18 14:00:39 * Sparks is here Feb 18 14:00:46 * ke4qqq is here Feb 18 14:00:50 Kirkz is here Feb 18 14:00:54 * quaid aqui tambien Feb 18 14:00:55 * jjmcd too Feb 18 14:01:32 Okay, welcome back to the party we call the Docs Project. Feb 18 14:01:43 * stickster here, sort of Feb 18 14:01:47 Yeah!!!!!! Feb 18 14:02:06 And the first item up for bid is... Feb 18 14:02:06 * laubersm is here Feb 18 14:02:10 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FDSCo_meeting_matrix Feb 18 14:02:10 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Meeting time change Feb 18 14:02:38 So only seven people have completed the requisite homework. Feb 18 14:03:02 So does that mean the attendance will be <= 7 ? Feb 18 14:03:10 And right now Thursday at 00:01 UTC is winning. Feb 18 14:03:13 * laubersm thinks someone should have marked out the spots already taken in meeting channel Feb 18 14:03:31 laubersm: We have LOTS of meeting spaces Feb 18 14:03:32 sparks: thats wed night ET - right? Feb 18 14:03:36 laubersm: ohhh good idea Feb 18 14:03:53 laubersm: That would be 7PM Wednesday nights Feb 18 14:03:56 eastern time Feb 18 14:04:04 Sparks: but in -meeting gives a lot of visibility to what we are doing Feb 18 14:04:20 * laubersm is still having to think too hard about UTC Feb 18 14:04:30 * mdomsch (n=Matt_Dom at cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com) has joined #fedora-meeting Feb 18 14:04:53 ke4qqq: Yeah and while I agree... we still need to think about good timing for us without having to cram every other group into our schedule, IMO. Feb 18 14:04:59 laubersm: Becom a ham or move to England Feb 18 14:05:06 :) Feb 18 14:05:08 ke4qqq: If we start using meeting-1 then more people will be ther Feb 18 14:05:24 true Feb 18 14:05:35 I wonder how many people even KNOW there is a meeting-1 (I'm guessing 9) Feb 18 14:06:04 * laubersm does but .... Feb 18 14:06:27 I don't know what meeting-1 is Feb 18 14:06:49 kirkz: Have we assigned you a... mentor? Feb 18 14:07:04 not yet Feb 18 14:07:14 .been working with danielsmw Feb 18 14:07:19 kirkz: Okay, lets talk after the meeting... Feb 18 14:07:25 ok Feb 18 14:07:43 So I guess my question is... who CANNOT meet Thursday at 00:01 UTC? Feb 18 14:08:06 I Feb 18 14:08:22 I'll probably be late, my daughter has piano Feb 18 14:09:17 If we use that spot then we'll fall in between EPEL and LATAM. Feb 18 14:09:59 I notice ryanlerch is lacking from the list ... did anyone speak with him? Feb 18 14:10:31 * Sparks notes that there are people here today that didn't say they were available now. Feb 18 14:10:53 jjmcd: I don't know that I've discussed it with him directly but there have been emails to the list and such. Feb 18 14:11:00 jjmcd: I'll make a point of doing so. Feb 18 14:11:13 This is a slightly troublesome time for me but obviously not insurmountable Feb 18 14:11:20 * moixs has quit (Remote closed the connection) Feb 18 14:11:47 Okay, so we don't get bogged down on this I'll beg for another week and then we will make the change next week. Feb 18 14:12:04 So when you see the message hit the list hit reply to all and let's discuss it. Feb 18 14:12:27 you might want to point out in the email the top options.... Feb 18 14:12:34 laubersm: +1 Feb 18 14:12:35 more likely to get protests than confirmations Feb 18 14:12:42 good point Feb 18 14:13:12 Anything else? Feb 18 14:13:33 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - DocsProject wiki page changes Feb 18 14:13:58 So I asked ianweller about this last night and apparently there hasn't been any (or much) progress on getting wikibot out of the garage. Feb 18 14:14:34 quaid had a good point that we should probably just start over on the Docs Project pages which I'm not against. It is just more work but work we can do right the first time. Feb 18 14:15:13 What is the issue with the wikibot? Feb 18 14:15:34 Not sure if it is a problem with only one person having the keys or if it is broken. Feb 18 14:16:12 I think it a little of both but ian thinks he can fix the broken if he can get the code Feb 18 14:16:32 at least that is what I last understood Feb 18 14:16:36 * stickster was an early proponent of starting over, also, with the idea being to create process docs that are as slim and readable as possible Feb 18 14:16:36 I'm personally leaning towards the "reinvent the wheel" at this point because a lot of the pages we have aren't useful and there needs to be a design change. Feb 18 14:16:38 * itbegins (n=Simon at nat-studcudn-172-24-62-0.fitz.cam.ac.uk) has joined #fedora-meeting Feb 18 14:16:58 Yeah, what stickster said Feb 18 14:17:00 +1 Feb 18 14:17:12 Evening all, sorry I'm late Feb 18 14:17:16 starting over makes a lot of sense - the people who know what is junk and what isn't in existing docs prolly don't have time to filter it. Feb 18 14:17:24 Also, more groups are begining to rename and add categories and we need to be an example not left behind Feb 18 14:17:26 Someone on the mailing list mentioned doing a process diagram. Perhaps a current and desired diagram would be a good starting point Feb 18 14:18:19 * jjmcd takes off his MBB hat Feb 18 14:18:48 what is the status of the psv files that quaid started? Feb 18 14:19:03 can they be used as a guideline of what to archive at least? Feb 18 14:19:05 laubersm: I think it still exists. Feb 18 14:19:17 yes, they can Feb 18 14:19:18 I think that file needs to be wikized so we can see it. Feb 18 14:19:21 laubersm: you and I have worked on it - I haven't seen any other commits hit the commit list Feb 18 14:19:46 Sparks: what's wrong with git clone? Feb 18 14:19:56 they are all here Feb 18 14:19:57 http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=wikirename.git;a=tree Feb 18 14:20:05 * jsmith (n=nnnjsmit at asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith) has joined #fedora-meeting Feb 18 14:20:09 -1 on wikifying, it's an easy file to work with Feb 18 14:20:12 ke4qqq: too much overhead for a group to look at and make changes Feb 18 14:20:46 I don't know that there are that many changes to make in the docs or docsproject ones... Feb 18 14:20:49 Good grief, you guys are going to make me work today Feb 18 14:21:08 if it's too much overhead for this group I'd be worried - we're talking hundreds of lines of text each - unwieldy at best. Feb 18 14:21:12 :) Feb 18 14:21:22 and quiad added category suggestions too Feb 18 14:21:23 sorry - was it supposed to be bonbon day today? Feb 18 14:22:12 mmm bonbons Feb 18 14:22:14 Good grief... I'm ready to shred what we have in the wiki and start over from dirt after looking at that list Feb 18 14:22:31 * danielsmw_ipod (n=danielsm at user-24-214-179-165.knology.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Feb 18 14:22:38 * danielsmw_ipod is now known as danielsmw Feb 18 14:22:49 looks like docsproject is all the ugly stuff - docs is beats and drafts and hasn't had any work done Feb 18 14:23:48 Sparks: another reason not to wikify, it'll further ruin search. Feb 18 14:24:27 * alexxed has quit ("Leaving.") Feb 18 14:24:29 Okay so what do we want to do? I guess we can tell wikibot to throw stuff in the archive: but we still are going to have to go through each page and clean it up Feb 18 14:25:41 Okay, not everyone at once. Feb 18 14:26:16 Who's available this weekend to work on wiki stuff? Feb 18 14:26:25 I am! Feb 18 14:26:35 * jsmith can't, unfortunately Feb 18 14:26:37 If we archive, rename the rest and add the categories it will be easier to go through what is left and clean up Feb 18 14:26:49 I can help if I'd be useful Feb 18 14:26:49 I vote for using the psv as a guide and manually getting it done this weekend Feb 18 14:27:08 waiting on wikibot is driving me nuts Feb 18 14:27:15 yes, adding categories is key Feb 18 14:27:18 Okay, let's get a party together starting Friday night and knock this stuff out. Feb 18 14:27:24 Do we have some confidence that the first column is comprehensive? Feb 18 14:27:42 and when was that column generated? Feb 18 14:27:44 make sure all understand the naming guidelines :) Feb 18 14:27:47 laubersm: even better: get the .psvs ready and then dole out sections of it - spread the love - that's accesibly to everyone Feb 18 14:28:07 e.g. "Titles like this", don't make all initial caps, etc. Feb 18 14:28:08 ke4qqq : are you volunteering? Feb 18 14:28:23 who wants to volunteer to head up this project or do we want to nominate ianweller? Feb 18 14:28:31 * ke4qqq nominates ianweller Feb 18 14:28:37 laubersm: I'll be happy to help Feb 18 14:28:44 * laubersm thinks quaid should finish what he started Feb 18 14:29:04 oh, what's that? Feb 18 14:29:07 * laubersm should have time to help this week Feb 18 14:29:41 Can't the renaming be done in SQL? Feb 18 14:29:44 quaid: aren't you the one that put most of the suggestions into the psv file? Feb 18 14:30:03 docsproject.psv history blaims you Feb 18 14:30:12 blame Feb 18 14:31:10 okay Feb 18 14:31:23 I'll get with ianweller tonight and let's get this moving on Friday Feb 18 14:31:40 * jsmith is now known as jsmith-away Feb 18 14:31:48 Anything else? Feb 18 14:32:18 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - CMS Update Feb 18 14:32:24 ke4qqq: Where are we now? Feb 18 14:32:41 * SmootherFrOgZ (n=laxathom at 69.6.70-86.rev.gaoland.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Feb 18 14:32:48 well - honestly not much additional progress since last week Feb 18 14:32:54 * ke4qqq has been busy with $dayjob Feb 18 14:32:55 but Feb 18 14:33:15 jds2001, herlo and spot will be around to help get this pushed in this weekend. Feb 18 14:33:36 and at least two of the above know that I plan on getting the modules and core completely packaged this weekend Feb 18 14:33:49 excellent Feb 18 14:33:59 * Sparks understands about $DAYJOB Feb 18 14:34:13 work is the curse of the drinking class Feb 18 14:34:18 Does anyone have any questions about the CMS? Feb 18 14:35:13 laubersm: yeah, I take the blame for docsproject.psv Feb 18 14:35:58 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes Feb 18 14:36:13 jjmcd: How's it going? Feb 18 14:36:38 some headway. Got a beat writer for haskell, ryan and i discussed some Feb 18 14:36:55 changes to the organization which Ryan incorporated into the DocBook Feb 18 14:36:55 * quaid off the phone, sry Feb 18 14:37:17 I am about 60% through writing a recruiting post Feb 18 14:37:35 Okay. Do you need anything from me? Are the release notes on schedule? Feb 18 14:37:35 In fact, will shortly be looking for a proofreader or two Feb 18 14:37:46 At this point I see no issue Feb 18 14:37:56 Okay Feb 18 14:38:16 Anyone have any questions? Feb 18 14:38:36 * mcepl (n=mcepl at 49-117-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz) has joined #fedora-meeting Feb 18 14:38:45 um Feb 18 14:38:52 there was the one thing on list about process Feb 18 14:40:06 * Sparks hasn't had an opportunity to catch up on the list discussions Feb 18 14:40:09 ok Feb 18 14:40:25 the deal is, the process is unclear about how people are supposed to note things once Alpha is out Feb 18 14:40:28 update the Alpha? Feb 18 14:40:36 does that automagically fill the Beta? Feb 18 14:40:41 write in to beats? Feb 18 14:40:46 add it to common bugs? Feb 18 14:40:47 etc. Feb 18 14:41:06 so it seemed like a good time to fix those process notes and send the QA communities the word on what to do. Feb 18 14:41:25 writing a new process page is an option, based on the above renaming plans Feb 18 14:41:55 is that something ryanlerch and jjmcd can collaborate on soonish? Feb 18 14:41:57 eof Feb 18 14:42:14 * mcepl (n=mcepl at 49-117-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz) has left #fedora-meeting Feb 18 14:42:20 Making notes in the beats talk would give the writers a heads up and wouldn't make the developers feel like they have to wordcreft Feb 18 14:42:31 Yeah, I think we should be looking at documenting the current process and then look at any way to improve that process. Feb 18 14:42:33 * warren (n=warren at redhat/wombat/warren) has joined #fedora-meeting Feb 18 14:42:33 wordcraft Feb 18 14:43:54 I liked the other spelling, tho' Feb 18 14:43:55 * jjmcd will try to sync with RL Feb 18 14:44:24 I know there are holes in y'all's understanding of the way things have been done, but a good first exercise Feb 18 14:44:38 might be to just try to do it all from what you know, then let the old fogies make suggestions Feb 18 14:45:16 Yeah, might not be a bad plan ... will need lots of pictures tho ... /me thinks better in pictures Feb 18 14:45:20 * Sparks wonders if we have a wiki page that identifies old fogies Feb 18 14:45:36 Plus the whole Six Sigma thing about making things visual/transparent Feb 18 14:46:02 Prolly not too hard to recognize the gray haired types Feb 18 14:46:20 Sparks: this one does: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee Feb 18 14:47:09 laubersm: nice! Feb 18 14:47:26 heh Feb 18 14:47:29 Sparks: OT, but +1 to s/FDSCo/Docs Team/g Feb 18 14:47:50 quaid: Yeah, that's a definite need Feb 18 14:47:57 Okay. Feb 18 14:48:47 I wanted to talk with the release notes folks last weekend and unfortunately that didn't happen. Let's make that happen this week so we can exchange ideas in a less async environment. Feb 18 14:48:52 Anything else on this? Feb 18 14:49:02 * quaid done Feb 18 14:49:18 danielsmw: Did you want to talk about your guide? Feb 18 14:49:43 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on User Guide Feb 18 14:49:56 yeah Feb 18 14:49:58 just a bit Feb 18 14:50:02 go for it Feb 18 14:50:14 I think I said most of what I wanted to say in that email, but in case anyone didn't see it: Feb 18 14:50:16 you'll wrap us up for the day Feb 18 14:50:18 * quaid +1 overall for danielsmw's on-list proposal of priorities Feb 18 14:50:31 1) Priorities for FAD Feb 18 14:50:59 I think that there isn't a huge stress on content priority, but I suggest that we work on pages like accessing the internet and installing software before the others Feb 18 14:51:05 since these are more fundamental Feb 18 14:51:20 quaid: thanks Feb 18 14:51:29 2) Organizing for maintainability Feb 18 14:51:57 I'd like to examine what tasks can be generalized without losing ease of understanding for a new user Feb 18 14:52:17 and then generalize these tasks, making it more maintainable and giving us time to polish other things/add content Feb 18 14:52:24 like... (this wasn't on the list) Feb 18 14:52:27 3) Advanced Sections Feb 18 14:52:55 danielsmw: only thing I wanted to discuss was how we wanted to handle F9 and F10 content on the wiki concurrently Feb 18 14:52:56 I think that while the user guide can be a newbie-friendly thing for the docs team, it doesn't need to leave out slightly more advanced users Feb 18 14:53:22 but 2) reminds me we want to discuss a common 'sudo' doc again v. su -c '' everywhere Feb 18 14:53:27 There are plenty of things that can be written for the more advanced user - setting up irssi, for example - Feb 18 14:53:39 That we can put in there. We just need to denote that it's for advanced users Feb 18 14:53:58 quaid: go ahead, if you want to discuss that Feb 18 14:54:01 I'm done, I think Feb 18 14:54:10 where should I be updating with F10 info? Feb 18 14:54:15 * laubersm may have missed that Feb 18 14:54:22 Oh, right Feb 18 14:54:25 I suppose Feb 18 14:54:28 or putting new F10 pages? Feb 18 14:54:30 That's a worthy thing to address Feb 18 14:54:49 For the little F10 editing that's been done, we've done it in our userspace Feb 18 14:54:53 but we need a better place very soon Feb 18 14:55:00 I'd rather settle that now, fwiw :) Feb 18 14:55:08 wiki or XML (git)? Feb 18 14:55:10 Agreed Feb 18 14:55:10 we could do what we did for F8 with the F9 content Feb 18 14:55:26 but then we want to move it to Archive: when it's converted or we risk confusing ppl Feb 18 14:55:35 Well, what if we just set aside the mediawiki source Feb 18 14:55:37 for conversion to xml Feb 18 14:55:43 at a later date? Feb 18 14:55:52 ah, then finish F9 via XML? Feb 18 14:55:57 we could do the raw conversion in a few minutes Feb 18 14:56:01 and check it in to git for fixing later. Feb 18 14:56:07 Right. I mean, the only stuff left is KDE Feb 18 14:56:12 call it branched-to-XML at that point. Feb 18 14:56:13 (i still need to go to fedora-kde) Feb 18 14:56:25 hmm, yeah, and that could be written anywhere and exported later, it's true Feb 18 14:56:36 * quaid ponders ... that would save needless renaming, etc. Feb 18 14:56:45 * danielsmw concurs Feb 18 14:56:50 danielsmw: m'man, I like that! Feb 18 14:57:00 THREE MINUTE WARNING Feb 18 14:57:11 then if I get more time I can also help with the XML conversion as it sits in git Feb 18 14:57:23 * jjmcd notes that Sparks checked WWV Feb 18 14:57:24 quaid: that'd be great, because I need to learn that Feb 18 14:57:30 that will move F9 UG significantly, and give us room to move on F10 Feb 18 14:57:41 yup yup. Feb 18 14:57:44 Sounds like a plan then. Feb 18 14:57:52 danielsmw: cool, nothing like watching and doing in real time to learn; you'll see from the git commits what I change, etc. Feb 18 14:57:56 right o Feb 18 14:57:58 jjmcd: Every new raday Feb 18 14:58:22 any comments on the aforementioned advanced sections before I let sparks take away the meeting? Feb 18 14:58:57 It's something I thought of when kirkz started doing the clawsmail stuff Feb 18 14:59:00 I have no problems with some more advanced content - but lets get the current topics moving first? Feb 18 14:59:06 oh, agreed., Feb 18 14:59:12 that would all be secondary. Feb 18 14:59:19 okay, well, that's all from me. Feb 18 14:59:27 great - add them to a list and I'll help a little bit Feb 18 14:59:30 Anything else??? Feb 18 14:59:37 Feb 18 14:59:46 * danielsmw thinks Sparks is pretty violent with his capitalization and punctuation Feb 18 14:59:50 5 Feb 18 14:59:51 4 Feb 18 14:59:53 3 Feb 18 14:59:53 * MostafaDaneshvar (n=MostafaD at unaffiliated/mostafadaneshvar) has joined #fedora-meeting Feb 18 14:59:54 2 Feb 18 14:59:56 1 Feb 18 15:00:00 Thanks everyone for coming! Feb 18 15:00:00 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From the_fine_print at hotmail.com Thu Feb 19 19:21:24 2009 From: the_fine_print at hotmail.com (Hunter Bukowski) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 13:21:24 -0600 Subject: Introduction-- Danny Message-ID: Hi, I'm Danny, a grad student in psychology in Chicago and have a lot of basic hardware and software experience but Unix and Linux are still a little new to me, plus I'm rusty from disuse. I'm not afraid of a command prompt-- I grew up with DOS. When I have technical problems I am resourceful, patient, analytical and able to fix them or find the help I need online. I have been building my own computers since 2000, and know a little about networking from setting up a home network and working for a telecom company for almost 3 years. I understand electronics fairly well, have excellent written communication and math skills and my father and sister are quality control managers (chief mucky muck bug squashers) so I guess you could say problem-solving is in our genes. And since, in a sense, you are QC too, I believe I'd make an excellent match for your Docs Project. I get real satisfaction in finding the source of a problem and fixing it, whether it be in someone's life (psychology) or their operating system (Fedora Linux). I worked briefly on a project in a technical writing class in the past. Otherwise I have a lot of writing experience (a LOT) in fiction, research paper writing, things like that. I'm a good editor. I'm courteous and extremely respectful toward others. I'm an organizer and go-getter. I like to make an impact and do what needs to be done for progress to be made. All of these things make me an excellent match for your project-- that and the fact that I really want a reason to learn Linux and give back to the Fedora community. I feel easily-accessible, browseable and searchable documentation is critical to making Fedora more user-friendly. GPG: 06E7B936 Fingerprint: /.gnupg/pubring.gpg ------------------------------------ pub 1024D/06E7B936 2009-02-19 Key fingerprint = 30A5 4C4E EC6C 1F1C E83C 35BA D48C F697 06E7 B936 uid Daniel J. Ashcom sub 1024g/6994B9A6 2009-02-19 Thanks for your time, Danny _________________________________________________________________ See how Windows Mobile brings your life together?at home, work, or on the go. http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/msnnkwxp1020093182mrt/direct/01/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 19 19:46:28 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 14:46:28 -0500 Subject: Docs help requested for Feature Page Summary In-Reply-To: <499C541A.5060008@redhat.com> References: <499C541A.5060008@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 1:31 PM, John Poelstra wrote: > Hi Docs People, > > I'm wondering of there are any people who would be willing to do their > word-smithing magic on the text for this page: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/FeatureList > I made one quick pass a this from a general standpoint. > > This page gets a lot of exposure and is read by a lot of different > audiences, including the media. I'd like to make sure it is understandable > and reads as well as it can. The summary that accompanies each feature name > is particularly important. For the most part the summary comes directly from > the individual feature page. > I'll need to read a few of the feature pages before I can help more, but I see some candidates for updates :) One recurring question: Do the different audiences know what rebase is? For example: "Update Xfce to the upstream 4.6 release with many new improvements and features." seems like a good clip but " Rebase to Gnome 2.26" maybe not so much. I know that most of Fedora community should understand this description but what about the other audiences that you are targeting with this page? -Susan > > Thanks, > John > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk202 at q.com Thu Feb 19 23:36:50 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:36:50 -0700 Subject: Need Second pair of eyes & have a question Message-ID: If anyone has the time could you proof these two pages that are for the F10 User Guide. I've looked at them so much I'm blind, but I think they're finished. https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Communications&action=edit & https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Tour_of_the_GNOME_Desktop&action=submit Question: I've placed two small screenshots on the page and would like to link them to a larger screenshot that shows more detail when the small one is clicked. How do I make this link? (this is the page I'm referring to: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Logging_into_the_Desktop&action=submit ) Thanks, Kirk Z From adam at physco.com Fri Feb 20 00:53:55 2009 From: adam at physco.com (Adam D. Ligas) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:53:55 -0500 Subject: Need Second pair of eyes & have a question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1235091235.2830.12.camel@Q> On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 16:36 -0700, Kirk wrote: > If anyone has the time could you proof these two pages that are for the > F10 User Guide. I've looked at them so much I'm blind, but I > think they're finished. I made some edits to both, and tried to do it in one shot each. Feel free to incorporate any of the changes you like and rollback the ones you don't. I thought they were both really good. Just nitpicks, typos, and other minor stuff. No major re-writes or anything. I'd love to see Thunderbird added to the communications guide at some point. It might be especially useful to have a section - or totally separate guide - on how to bring all of your Windows Thunderbird mail/contacts/settings into your new Linux desktop. - Adam From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 20 01:10:50 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:10:50 -0500 Subject: Need Second pair of eyes & have a question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: > Question: I've placed two small screenshots on the page and would like > to link them to a larger screenshot that shows more detail when the > small one is clicked. How do I make this link? (this is the page I'm > referring to: > https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Logging_into_the_Desktop&action=submit ) Screenshots in general are a bad idea for the more formal guides, for a couple of reasons. First - it requires every translation to have someone replicate your work - and that's something that's currently outside of the l10n workflow, as well as being a ton of work. Second, it's a maintenance nightmare, as you are no doubt seeing with icons. They just change too much, sometimes even mid-release which makes your content less than useful. From danielsmw at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 02:47:22 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (danielsmw at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 02:47:22 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Need Second pair of eyes & have a question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2009, David Nalley wrote: > First - it requires every translation to have someone replicate your > work - and that's something that's currently outside of the l10n > workflow, as well as being a ton of work. That's a really good reason that I had never noticed before. In that light, I misadvised Kirk before - sorry about that. I always forget the translators (which is terrible of me, I know...) - Matthew From kirk202 at q.com Fri Feb 20 03:07:17 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:07:17 -0700 Subject: Need Second pair of eyes & have a question In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2009 02:47:22 +0000 (UTC) danielsmw at gmail.com wrote: > On Thu, 19 Feb 2009, David Nalley wrote: > > First - it requires every translation to have someone replicate your > > work - and that's something that's currently outside of the l10n > > workflow, as well as being a ton of work. > > That's a really good reason that I had never noticed before. In that > light, I misadvised Kirk before - sorry about that. I always forget > the translators (which is terrible of me, I know...) > > - Matthew > I'll take them off, it's not a problem. Thanks for the info. - Kirk Z From kirk202 at q.com Fri Feb 20 03:06:00 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 20:06:00 -0700 Subject: Need Second pair of eyes & have a question In-Reply-To: <1235091235.2830.12.camel@Q> References: <1235091235.2830.12.camel@Q> Message-ID: On Thu, 19 Feb 2009 19:53:55 -0500 "Adam D. Ligas" wrote: > On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 16:36 -0700, Kirk wrote: > > If anyone has the time could you proof these two pages that are > > for the F10 User Guide. I've looked at them so much I'm blind, but > > I think they're finished. > > I made some edits to both, and tried to do it in one shot each. Feel > free to incorporate any of the changes you like and rollback the ones > you don't. > > I thought they were both really good. Just nitpicks, typos, and other > minor stuff. No major re-writes or anything. > > I'd love to see Thunderbird added to the communications guide at some > point. It might be especially useful to have a section - or totally > separate guide - on how to bring all of your Windows Thunderbird > mail/contacts/settings into your new Linux desktop. > > - Adam > Thanks for the help Adam. I'd thought about adding Thunderbird and then spaced it, I think it should be there too so I'll add it to it. I don't know how to bring the Thunderbird over from windows to Linux. I've got XP installed in VBox along with F10 so I'll try and figure it out. If you know how I'd appreciate a few hints. Kirk Z From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Feb 20 04:27:35 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 23:27:35 -0500 Subject: Need Second pair of eyes & have a question References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Nalley" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Thursday, February 19, 2009 8:10 PM Subject: Re: Need Second pair of eyes & have a question > First - it requires every translation to have someone replicate your > work - and that's something that's currently outside of the l10n > workflow, as well as being a ton of work. What we need is a Koji-like thingie that takes a specification for the screenshot we want and produces a .png in all the languages. 72/73 de WB8RCR http://www.qsl.net/wb8rcr didileydadidah QRP-L #1446 Code Warriors #35 From danielsmw at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 04:42:32 2009 From: danielsmw at gmail.com (Matthew Daniels) Date: Thu, 19 Feb 2009 23:42:32 -0500 Subject: For FAD, the F9 User Guide is pseudo-basically-done Message-ID: <17cd57cf0902192042s4508a060q11badc4835e1b90b@mail.gmail.com> I've saved the MediaWiki source to my machine locally for the F9 UG, and will get it up to CVS ASAP. Either way, the FAD guys should be cool to work right at fp.o/wiki/User_Guide_tasks tomorrow for the F10 content. I should hop on IRC around 2:20 EST and will call in to help editing. Anyone else is welcome to do this as well; check Karsten's past emails for the schedule. I will periodically check email throughout the day as well; perhaps some optimistic status updates would help my test grades. :-) - Matthew -- _____________________________ Reply To: danielsmw at gmail.com From adam at physco.com Fri Feb 20 06:23:09 2009 From: adam at physco.com (Adam D. Ligas) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 01:23:09 -0500 Subject: Need Second pair of eyes & have a question In-Reply-To: References: <1235091235.2830.12.camel@Q> Message-ID: <1235110989.10865.1.camel@Q> On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 20:06 -0700, Kirk wrote: > Thanks for the help Adam. Anytime! > I'd thought about adding Thunderbird and then spaced it, I think it > should be there too so I'll add it to it. I don't know how to bring > the Thunderbird over from windows to Linux. I've got XP installed in > VBox along with F10 so I'll try and figure it out. If you know how I'd > appreciate a few hints. It looks like the kind folks over at mozillazine.org might have taken care of this one for us! http://kb.mozillazine.org/Moving_from_Windows_to_Linux See the "Moving Your Profile Data" section. - Adam From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 13:04:01 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:04:01 -0500 Subject: Docs help requested for Feature Page Summary In-Reply-To: References: <499C541A.5060008@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090220130401.GD6979@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 02:46:28PM -0500, Susan Lauber wrote: > One recurring question: Do the different audiences know what rebase is? > For example: > "Update Xfce to the upstream 4.6 release with many new improvements and > features." seems like a good clip > but " Rebase to Gnome 2.26" maybe not so much. > I know that most of Fedora community should understand this description but > what about the other audiences that you are targeting with this page? Good catch. Lay press does use this page quite a bit, as I found out during the Fedora 9 and 10 release cycles. The clearer we can make it without dumbing it down horribly, the better. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 13:10:40 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 08:10:40 -0500 Subject: Introduction-- Danny In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090220131040.GE6979@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 01:21:24PM -0600, Hunter Bukowski wrote: > > Hi, > I'm Danny, a grad student in psychology in Chicago and have a lot > of basic hardware and software experience but Unix and Linux are still a > little new to me, plus I'm rusty from disuse. I'm not afraid of a > command prompt-- I grew up with DOS. When I have technical > problems I am resourceful, patient, analytical and able to fix them or > find the help I need online. > > I have been building my own computers since 2000, and know a little > about networking from setting up a home network and working for a > telecom company for almost 3 years. I understand electronics fairly > well, have excellent written communication and math skills and my > father and sister are quality control managers (chief mucky muck bug > squashers) so I guess you could say problem-solving is in our genes. > And since, in a sense, you are QC too, I believe I'd make an excellent > match for your Docs Project. I get real satisfaction in finding the > source of a problem and fixing it, whether it be in someone's life > (psychology) or their operating system (Fedora Linux). > > I worked briefly on a project in a technical writing class in the past. > Otherwise I have a lot of writing experience (a LOT) in fiction, > research paper writing, things like that. I'm a good editor. I'm > courteous and extremely respectful toward others. I'm an organizer > and go-getter. I like to make an impact and do what needs to be > done for progress to be made. > > All of these things make me an excellent match for your project-- > that and the fact that I really want a reason to learn Linux and give > back to the Fedora community. I feel easily-accessible, browseable > and searchable documentation is critical to making Fedora more > user-friendly. Hi Danny, pleased to meet you -- you do sound like a great match for the Documentation Project. Please feel free to ask additional questions here, and come by IRC Freenode (irc.freenode.net) and look for us on #fedora-docs. If you need help getting to IRC, refer to these pages on our wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_use_IRC http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicating_and_getting_help#IRC -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Feb 20 15:58:07 2009 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 09:58:07 -0600 (CST) Subject: I need an editor! Message-ID: Hope this isn't bad form to ask but it is ultimately docs for fedora so I'm asking :) I've been working on some standards documents for Fedora's Infrastructure Team to follow (and hopefully others to adopt as they see fit). I'm finalizing our free software policy and I'd like an editor. Any volunteers? http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/free-software-policy/en-US/html-single/ -Mike From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 16:44:39 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:44:39 -0500 Subject: I need an editor! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090220164439.GH20305@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 09:58:07AM -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > Hope this isn't bad form to ask but it is ultimately docs for fedora so > I'm asking :) > > I've been working on some standards documents for Fedora's Infrastructure > Team to follow (and hopefully others to adopt as they see fit). I'm > finalizing our free software policy and I'd like an editor. Any > volunteers? > > http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/free-software-policy/en-US/html-single/ Looking at it now -- how do you want changes? Where should I send patches from git? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Fri Feb 20 17:20:01 2009 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 11:20:01 -0600 (CST) Subject: I need an editor! In-Reply-To: <20090220164439.GH20305@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090220164439.GH20305@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Fri, 20 Feb 2009, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 09:58:07AM -0600, Mike McGrath wrote: > > Hope this isn't bad form to ask but it is ultimately docs for fedora so > > I'm asking :) > > > > I've been working on some standards documents for Fedora's Infrastructure > > Team to follow (and hopefully others to adopt as they see fit). I'm > > finalizing our free software policy and I'd like an editor. Any > > volunteers? > > > > http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/free-software-policy/en-US/html-single/ > > Looking at it now -- how do you want changes? Where should I send > patches from git? > stick them on fedorapeople or email the patches to me. -Mike From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Fri Feb 20 17:55:07 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 23:25:07 +0530 Subject: Need Second pair of eyes & have a question Message-ID: <78323d480902200955k24dac585ga32f0853a1c5d518@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Kirk wrote: > If anyone has the time could you proof these two pages that are for the > F10 User Guide. I've looked at them so much I'm blind, but I > think they're finished. > > https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=User:Kirk202/User_Guide_-_Communications&action=edit Some Points: 1. 'Fedora can be used to send electronic mail and communicate in real time with people around the world ' sounds a bit trivial. People using the user guide may not know about 'email clients' or about accessing their mails from the web and mail clients from different locations. 2. There was a mistake in the Kmail table: 'Check Mail in' does not send email. Modified a few other things in the table 3. KwalletManager is not mentioned at all. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkme7vgACgkQunMISzvdfU4USwCfQBnhmFYZ8Bz3hioLi0EnF7Wl tQgAn1zFRntxNHxPSVweF5G5S5o+6UV4 =dcrJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Fri Feb 20 21:09:04 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:09:04 -0500 Subject: Docs Project wiki page rename party Message-ID: HI all, What: My understanding from the meeting on Wed was that Fri night is a wiki page renaming party for Docs Project. Reason: We are giving up on the wait for wikibot and going ahead and manually moving pages - particularly the process related pages so we can move on to redoing those pages as needed. Where in #fedora-docs When: After Ian "wiki czar" Weller gets home from school and before quaid and the rest of the scale FAD group disburse for dinner (or after they get back but I prefer before midnight east coast time) What to do: 1. In git is a wikirename repo with a docsproject.psv file to use as our guide. URL: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=wikirename.git;a=blob_plain;f=docsproject.psv;hb=HEAD but you probably want a local copy so if you have not yet gotten it: git clone git://git.fedoraproject.org/git/wikirename.git will work (or even better use ssh://fasname at git.fedorap....) The format of the file is existing name | new name | categories There are about 175 pages to move and categorize. I'll divide it up when I have an idea of how many people are helping. 2. I already checked with quaid (who made most of the changes to that file) and it should be good to use as a guide. BUT everyone can make final adjustments on the fly. For example: a. double check the destination name including case b. where is just says Archive: the rest of the name stays the same as the original c. anything missing (like the ones I added yesterday) means you get to decide yourself 3. Don't forget to add the categories. If there are other categories that should be added, then add them. I made sure that the existing categories are subcategories to Docs Project so you can find most of the here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project [I'll go add the archive category there as well - at least for the duration of this task so we can find it.] So who's coming to the party? -Susan -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkstriangle at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 06:35:06 2009 From: jkstriangle at gmail.com (Sibir Chakraborty) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:05:06 +0530 Subject: I need an editor! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Mike, Here's one -me, Sibir Chakraborty. I am newer to the Fedora Community. Let me know if I can be of any help. Just on an introduction, I am a RHCP and CCNA. I have also done my SCJP. I am currently working as a Network Engnr. Thanks, Sibir On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 9:28 PM, Mike McGrath wrote: > Hope this isn't bad form to ask but it is ultimately docs for fedora so > I'm asking :) > > I've been working on some standards documents for Fedora's Infrastructure > Team to follow (and hopefully others to adopt as they see fit). I'm > finalizing our free software policy and I'd like an editor. Any > volunteers? > > > http://infrastructure.fedoraproject.org/csi/free-software-policy/en-US/html-single/ > > -Mike > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 23 15:32:44 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:32:44 -0500 Subject: Docs Project wiki page rename party In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 4:09 PM, Susan Lauber wrote: > HI all, > > What: My understanding from the meeting on Wed was that Fri night is a wiki > page renaming party for Docs Project. > Reason: We are giving up on the wait for wikibot and going ahead and > manually moving pages - particularly the process related pages so we can > move on to redoing those pages as needed. > Where in #fedora-docs > When: After Ian "wiki czar" Weller gets home from school and before quaid > and the rest of the scale FAD group disburse for dinner (or after they get > back but I prefer before midnight east coast time) > Thanks John for helping out. Missed the Party? No worries. We are about 1/3 of the way through - there is still time to help out. > What to do: > 1. In git is a wikirename repo with a docsproject.psv file to use as our > guide. > URL: > http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=wikirename.git;a=blob_plain;f=docsproject.psv;hb=HEAD > but you probably want a local copy so if you have not yet gotten it: > > git clone git://git.fedoraproject.org/git/wikirename.git will work (or > even better use ssh://fasname at git.fedorap....) > > The format of the file is > existing name | new name | categories > > There are about 175 pages to move and categorize. I'll divide it up when I > have an idea of how many people are helping. > There are comments that split the file into groups of about 25 pages each. Group 1 - needs love Group 2 - done Group 3 - done Group 4 - an "easy" one - mostly move pages to Meeting: and add Category Group 5 - an "easy" one - mostly move pages to Meeting: and add Category Group 6 - needs love Group 7 - done > > 2. I already checked with quaid (who made most of the changes to that file) > and it should be good to use as a guide. BUT everyone can make final > adjustments on the fly. For example: > a. double check the destination name including case > b. where is just says Archive: the rest of the name stays the same as the > original > c. anything missing (like the ones I added yesterday) means you get to > decide yourself > > 3. Don't forget to add the categories. If there are other categories that > should be added, then add them. > I made sure that the existing categories are subcategories to Docs Project > so you can find most of the here: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project > [I'll go add the archive category there as well - at least for the duration > of this task so we can find it.] > > -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 23 15:48:51 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:48:51 -0500 Subject: Update: PackageMaintainers wiki cleanup update Message-ID: On Sat, Jan 31, 2009 at 5:01 PM, Susan Lauber wrote: > > Greetings to the authors/maintainers of Package Maintainer wiki pages, > > I introduced myself last week [1] and since then I have dug into the pages and set up a task table [2] > > I have already added a category to most pages so they can all be found together [3]. > If there are others or if you create a new page just add the string [[Category:Package Maintainers]] to the bottom of the page. > > The next step is renaming so that pages are easier to find in a search. It will also make the category page easier to use. I have started making suggested in the packagemaintainers.psv [4] file in the wikirename.git repo and Update: Pages were moved this past weekend (20090222) I also did a lot of work merging the old PackageMaintainers page into the Category page itself. I think it is still too long but will continue to clean it up this week. If I missed any redirects, please let me know (or just fix them). See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Package_Maintainers The layout has *old PackageMaintainers info at the top (maintained manually) *Sub Categories (dynamically created list) *Pages in the Category (synamically created list) *Please do NOT include subdirs / in names going forward. *All links to the old page names should redirect but going forward, please try to use the new names. *To add a page to the category add [[Category:Package_Maintainers]] to the bottom of the page. *To link to the category page from within another page use the syntax [[:Category:Package_Maintainers]] (not the extra colon at the beginning) > > ***I encourage others to check the proposed names and offer additional suggestions.*** > > I would like to have this file ready for the wikibot by the end of the week (Feb 7). > Lack of response will be seen as a vote of confidence :) > > Thanks, > Susan > > [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-January/msg01545.html > [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_tasks_for_Packaging_Guide_and_related_materials#Package_Maintainer_pages > [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Package_Maintainers > [4] http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/?p=wikirename.git;a=blob_plain;f=packagemaintainers.psv;hb=HEAD > with naming instructions at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_structure > -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Mon Feb 23 17:24:57 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 12:24:57 -0500 Subject: Odd double redirect - I'm confused. Message-ID: This probably for Ian but I'll share with all... OK I'm confused. I went checking for double redirects from the renaming party (and my renaming of Package Maintainer pages yesterday) And I found one that doesn't make any sense to me - I have looked at history and I cannot even figure out how the two pages got connected in the first place... The Double redirects page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Special:DoubleRedirects ... This page lists pages which redirect to other redirect pages. Each row contains links to the first and second redirect, as well as the target of the second redirect, which is usually "real" target page, which the first redirect should point to. ... 9. DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Process (Edit) ?? Release notes process ?? Writing for DocBook using the wiki And History of Release notes process shows: # (cur) (last) 12:41, 22 February 2009 Redirect fixer (Talk | contribs) (48 bytes) (DocsProject/Writing Using The Wiki has been moved, it is now a redirect to Writing for DocBook using the wiki) (undo) # (cur) (last) 02:24, 22 February 2009 Laubersm (Talk | contribs) m (DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Process moved to Release notes process: docs project cleanup) (undo) # (cur) (last) 02:23, 22 February 2009 Laubersm (Talk | contribs) m (7,257 bytes) (add category) (undo) What confuses me is: When and where did ReleaseNotes ever point to Writing Using the Wiki ?!?!? -Susan -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 From kirk202 at q.com Mon Feb 23 21:08:18 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:08:18 -0700 Subject: Steps for Thunderbird migration from Windows Vista to Fedora Message-ID: I've written the steps needed to migrate Thunderbird Profile Data from Windows XP. I don't have access to Vista. Could someone read over this section for me that's more familiar with Vista and let me know if different steps are required? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Communications#Moving_Your_Thunderbird_Profile_Data_from_Windows_to_Fedora Thanks, -Kirk From nushio at gmail.com Mon Feb 23 21:22:44 2009 From: nushio at gmail.com (Juan M. Rodriguez) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:22:44 -0600 Subject: Steps for Thunderbird migration from Windows Vista to Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Kirk wrote: > I've written the steps needed to migrate Thunderbird Profile Data from > Windows XP. I don't have access to Vista. Could someone read over this > section for me that's more familiar with Vista and let me know if > different steps are required? > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Communications#Moving_Your_Thunderbird_Profile_Data_from_Windows_to_Fedora > > Thanks, > > -Kirk > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Hi there, I haven't used Vista in a while, but I'm pretty sure its almost the same thing. Instead of Documents and Settings / YourUsername, I believe its now C:\Users\YourUsername The rest should be the same. Thanks for the guide! -Nushio -- Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk202 at q.com Mon Feb 23 21:36:53 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Mon, 23 Feb 2009 14:36:53 -0700 Subject: Steps for Thunderbird migration from Windows Vista to Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, 23 Feb 2009 15:22:44 -0600 "Juan M. Rodriguez" wrote: > On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 3:08 PM, Kirk wrote: > > > I've written the steps needed to migrate Thunderbird Profile Data > > from Windows XP. I don't have access to Vista. Could someone read > > over this section for me that's more familiar with Vista and let me > > know if different steps are required? > > > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Communications#Moving_Your_Thunderbird_Profile_Data_from_Windows_to_Fedora > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Kirk > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > > Hi there, > > I haven't used Vista in a while, but I'm pretty sure its almost the > same thing. > > Instead of Documents and Settings / YourUsername, I believe its now > C:\Users\YourUsername > > The rest should be the same. > > Thanks for the guide! > > -Nushio > Thanks, I'll add this. -Kirk > From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Feb 25 04:07:12 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:07:12 +1000 Subject: Install Guide now in Publican Message-ID: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> Hey all, just letting you know that the Installation Guide is now fully "Publicanized". I can confirm that every language version of the guide builds in html, html-single, and PDF, with only one exception -- Chinese Simplified. I /can/ confirm that Chinese Simplified builds in html and html-single, but I haven't been able to confirm that it builds in PDF [1]. RPM building also works. I've placed the publicanized version of the guide in the master branch of the repo, and the f10 version in its own branch. There are small structural changes between the f10 version of the files and the files in the current master branch, specifically: * the Guide now includes Publican's standard Preface, which explains the typographic conventions used in the document * by default, Publican places the "Feedback" section in the Preface, so I've moved it there from its previous position in the "Introduction" * the "Colophon" wasn't really a colophon; I've renamed it to "Contributors and production methods", which is what it actually contains. The "Contributors" section within this now includes a full list of the community translators who have worked on the guide (I drew these from the translation files). * the Tamil translation file didn't actually contain any translations; I've removed it for the moment. * I've removed most of the entities that were used in the document; not only were they a real mess, but they were going to create significant problems when positioning the guide upstream of the RHEL Installation Guide * I've added country codes to folders containing translation files for certain languages, so Publican can take advantage of the Common Content already built into Publican for these languages. Note that these folders are named according to the IETF RFC 4646 standard that XML uses for language and country codes, not the GNU hybrid of "ISO 639-2 language code and two-letter ISO 3166 country code separated by an underscore". Publican expects to see the RFC 4646 version. I'm aware that the inclusion of a country code is a contentious area for some translators, and have filed a bug about this [2]. Note that this issue doesn't presently affect languages that we don't have any Common Content for, but I've also renamed the Serbian-with-Latin-alphabet folder in compliance with RFC 4646. Some urgent action is now needed on the localization front: * f10 needs to be presented as a valid branch in the Transifex system; and the separate .po files of the Publicanized version need to be made available to translators * Publican includes two "Common Content" files that need translation into languages that Red Hat doesn't support. They are "Conventions" (which explains the document conventions) and "Feedback" [3]. The great news here is that once these have been translated into any given language, they will be available for /all/ Publicanized Fedora docs produced in that language, since the .po files can be built into the Fedora brand that installs with Publican. I've generated .pot files for these three sections. Other than approaching translators directly, is there another way to bring these to community attention? On the RPM front: * What needs to happen to get an RPM of this document approved for inclusion in Fedora? What I'm doing next: * working out how content can be merged between the Fedora and Red Hat Enterprise Linux Installation Guides, which will allow the Fedora version to be positioned upstream Cheers Rudi [1] on my machine, the build process finishes successfully and generates a PDF file, but the body text contains nothing but whitespace (although the chapter and section headings render correctly). I suspect this is simply a problem on my machine, however, and haven't tested it on anyone else's yet. [2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=487256 [3] the Installation Guide doesn't use the Common "Feedback" section ? it has its own, custom "Feedback" section instead. We still need to get this translated into as many languages as possible ASAP, both for the sake of other Fedora Docs, and in case we want future versions of the Installation Guide to line up with what's in the docs that /are/ using the standard "Feedback" section. From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 13:51:52 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 08:51:52 -0500 Subject: Install Guide now in Publican In-Reply-To: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> References: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090225135152.GA19287@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 02:07:12PM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Hey all, > > just letting you know that the Installation Guide is now fully > "Publicanized". > > I can confirm that every language version of the guide builds in html, > html-single, and PDF, with only one exception -- Chinese Simplified. I > /can/ confirm that Chinese Simplified builds in html and html-single, but > I haven't been able to confirm that it builds in PDF [1]. > > RPM building also works. > > I've placed the publicanized version of the guide in the master branch of > the repo, and the f10 version in its own branch. Superb! Great news Ruediger -- thank you for your work on this. > There are small structural changes between the f10 version of the files > and the files in the current master branch, specifically: > [...snip...] > * I've removed most of the entities that were used in the document; not > only were they a real mess, but they were going to create significant > problems when positioning the guide upstream of the RHEL Installation > Guide Really? Isn't using &DISTRO; a pretty good way to go, as opposed to doing manual search and replace on "Fedora"? On the other hand, I'm sure the usage wasn't consistent throughout which is surely a problem in itself. [...snip...] > Some urgent action is now needed on the localization front: > * f10 needs to be presented as a valid branch in the Transifex system; > and the separate .po files of the Publicanized version need to be made > available to translators > * Publican includes two "Common Content" files that need translation into > languages that Red Hat doesn't support. They are "Conventions" (which > explains the document conventions) and "Feedback" [3]. The great news here > is that once these have been translated into any given language, they will > be available for /all/ Publicanized Fedora docs produced in that language, > since the .po files can be built into the Fedora brand that installs with > Publican. I've generated .pot files for these three sections. Other than > approaching translators directly, is there another way to bring these to > community attention? I'd say this is something to bring to fedora-trans-list, which is the mailing list for the global Fedora L10n team. > On the RPM front: > * What needs to happen to get an RPM of this document approved for > inclusion in Fedora? Probably the regular stuff -- produce a spec file and SRPM, and file a bug for package review. There's more information on the package maintainers site, but I believe Eric is going through (has been through?) this process too. > What I'm doing next: > * working out how content can be merged between the Fedora and Red Hat > Enterprise Linux Installation Guides, which will allow the Fedora version > to be positioned upstream Nice work. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From angel at linux.org.bd Wed Feb 25 14:46:58 2009 From: angel at linux.org.bd (Ashiqur Rahman Angel) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 20:46:58 +0600 Subject: Fedora Ambassadors Join Page Message-ID: Hi everyone, Before joining and introducing myself, I was exploring our Wiki. Have a look, here, https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join. I think, someone new on Fedora Project, did this mistakenly. I can see the history. Should I fix this? -- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2 Fedora -- Freedom? and rapid innovation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cmpahar at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 14:51:28 2009 From: cmpahar at gmail.com (Christos Bacharakis) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 16:51:28 +0200 Subject: Fedora Ambassadors Join Page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Ashiqur Rahman Angel wrote: > Hi everyone, > Before joining and introducing myself, I was exploring our Wiki. Have a > look, here, > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join. > > I think, someone new on Fedora Project, did this mistakenly. I can see the > history. Should I fix this? > > -- > Angel > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel > 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2 > > Fedora -- Freedom? and rapid innovation > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Yeah, please change it immediately . BTW, Thank you :) -- Christos Bacharakis cmpahar at fedoraproject.org http://cmpahar.wordpress.com GPG Key: CCFA0AEB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From angel at linux.org.bd Wed Feb 25 15:01:03 2009 From: angel at linux.org.bd (Ashiqur Rahman Angel) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:01:03 +0600 Subject: Fedora Ambassadors Join Page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: The page is fixed now. On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 8:51 PM, Christos Bacharakis wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Ashiqur Rahman Angel wrote: > >> Hi everyone, >> Before joining and introducing myself, I was exploring our Wiki. Have a >> look, here, >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Join. >> >> I think, someone new on Fedora Project, did this mistakenly. I can see the >> history. Should I fix this? >> >> -- >> Angel >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel >> 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2 >> >> Fedora -- Freedom? and rapid innovation >> >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > > > Yeah, please change it immediately . > BTW, Thank you :) > -- > Christos Bacharakis > cmpahar at fedoraproject.org > http://cmpahar.wordpress.com > GPG Key: CCFA0AEB > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Angel http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Angel 0DF8 3CD4 AFE3 68C6 2CDA 9F17 14B8 1A15 E5F7 73C2 Fedora -- Freedom? and rapid innovation -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Feb 25 15:58:46 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 07:58:46 -0800 Subject: Docs help requested for Feature Page Summary In-Reply-To: <20090220130401.GD6979@localhost.localdomain> References: <499C541A.5060008@redhat.com> <20090220130401.GD6979@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49A56AB6.8000604@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields said the following on 02/20/2009 05:04 AM Pacific Time: > On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 02:46:28PM -0500, Susan Lauber wrote: >> One recurring question: Do the different audiences know what rebase is? >> For example: >> "Update Xfce to the upstream 4.6 release with many new improvements and >> features." seems like a good clip >> but " Rebase to Gnome 2.26" maybe not so much. >> I know that most of Fedora community should understand this description but >> what about the other audiences that you are targeting with this page? > > Good catch. Lay press does use this page quite a bit, as I found out > during the Fedora 9 and 10 release cycles. The clearer we can make it > without dumbing it down horribly, the better. > > Yes, what Paul said :) Thanks for your help! John From stickster at gmail.com Wed Feb 25 20:50:58 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:50:58 -0500 Subject: RPM packages of docs & freeze Message-ID: <20090225205058.GB15592@localhost.localdomain> A couple questions to think about, with regard to RPM packages of documentation: * Does the upcoming feature freeze affect entry of new RPM packages in to the repo for a release? * If so, should we request that FESCo make exceptions for documentation given the requirements of the release cycle? I should probably know the answer to the question #1 off the top of my head, but I don't. I suspect it's "Not unless the package is part of the default comps." -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 25 22:41:48 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:41:48 -0800 Subject: Docs team meeting 20090225 IRC log Message-ID: <20090225224148.GC4356@calliope.phig.org> Here in wiki format: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090225 ... and attached as raw text. -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- 11:01 < quaid> 11:02 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg -- say hello :) 11:02 < quaid> hello 11:02 < jjmcd> bonjour 11:02 < kirkz> quaid: hi 11:03 * laubersm is here 11:03 < stickster> quaid: Is Sparks here for this one? I'm behind on email, sorry. 11:03 * stickster can't be 100% here either, unfortch 11:03 * lcafiero is here 11:04 < quaid> stickster: he asked me to cover this mtg for him 11:04 < stickster> OK, gotcha 11:04 < quaid> he's in an all-day at $2ork 11:04 < stickster> Just curious, no problem 11:04 < quaid> yeah, there 2 11:04 < quaid> ok, he left me some agenda items iirc 11:05 < laubersm> a new meeting time was a big one 11:05 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting 11:05 < quaid> yep 11:05 -!- mcepl [n=mcepl at 49-117-207-85.strcechy.adsl-llu.static.bluetone.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:05 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting :::: meeting time change 11:05 < quaid> I would guess 11:05 < quaid> that if you haven't put your name in hereL 11:05 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FDSCo_meeting_matrix 11:06 < quaid> then you don't care what time it is? 11:06 < quaid> or you are choosing to not be a gating facter 11:06 * quaid tries ways to be fair 11:06 * laubersm thinks decisions are made by those that show up (and proxy counts) 11:06 < quaid> we have one block that gets five ppl 11:07 < quaid> sorry, two 11:07 < jjmcd> Except I would lean towards something ryanlerch can make eve if he isn't ususally here now 11:07 < quaid> jjmcd: we would need to know what he can make 11:07 < quaid> jjmcd: did he not put his name on there because he's available all day in BNE? 11:08 < jjmcd> I dunno, seems like Sparks talked to him but I don't know the outcome 11:08 < quaid> which would mean Thursday 00:00 (is that really Wednesday my time?) 11:08 < laubersm> quaid: yes 11:08 < jjmcd> yeh 11:08 < quaid> tricky bugger that 11:09 < laubersm> Thur 00:00 is PST 4pm Wed according to my printout here 11:09 < laubersm> which is EST 7pm 11:09 < quaid> yeppers, I remember why I approved that one for me, I was sure I could do it with the major royal screw-up that is daylight savings time adjustments 11:10 < jjmcd> Yeah, I had to extend all my normal meetings an hour to find holes that would straddle time changes 11:11 < laubersm> what time is that for RL? 11:11 < jjmcd> Probably some time tuesday, who knows 11:11 * laubersm has a chart just for US time zones 11:12 < laubersm> I had added myself to the popular Sat time (Fri night for me) but I still keep hoping that I'll get a life 11:12 < laubersm> (and I don't just mean Fri nights in the airport) 11:12 < jjmcd> GMT+11 so 11 AM 11:12 < quaid> BNE is +1000 11:12 < quaid> oh, OK 11:13 < quaid> so that's Thursday around elevenses 11:13 < jjmcd> yeah, or maybe 10 depending on the season 11:13 < jjmcd> But not sleeping probably unless too late in the bar 11:13 < quaid> since we can all technically be here around that time this afternoon, let's ping ryanlerch and make sure it works for him. 11:14 * laubersm thinks that sounds a lot like the outcome of last week's discussion... 11:15 < jjmcd> Yeah, except I think Sparks did talk with him 11:16 < laubersm> +1 for Thurs 00:00 UTC - put it out on the list and revisit if there is an explosion 11:16 < jjmcd> Sounds like a plan to me 11:16 -!- GeroldKa [n=GeroldKa at fedora/geroldka] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:17 -!- dkovalsk [n=dkovalsk at r11eu187.net.upc.cz] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:17 < quaid> word 11:17 < laubersm> hmm... Damiels isn't in the THur list either... re Users Guide. 11:17 -!- mbonnet is now known as mbonnet__ 11:17 < laubersm> well hopefully he can make it some of the time (college schedule and all) 11:17 < quaid> good point 11:18 < quaid> right, we're working on a schedule that mayn't change for a while 11:18 < quaid> in fact, this time here has been steady for several years iirc 11:18 -!- itbegins_ [n=Simon at 212.183.134.130] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:18 < quaid> I see he is avail one hour before 11:18 < quaid> maybe we can start the meeting :15 early :) 11:19 < quaid> I've tried two hour meeting windows for just that reason before, which didn't work out so hot. 11:19 < laubersm> I like the maybe we can start early thing - 11:19 < laubersm> he is also good about sending a proxy (email) 11:19 < quaid> yep 11:19 < laubersm> and his schedule might change with the semesters 11:20 * quaid looks at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_meeting_channel 11:20 < quaid> looks good for keeping this channel 11:21 < quaid> the EPEL slot is not used I reckon 11:21 * quaid being on that steering committee and not meeting at that time that he can recall, or he is just lame 11:21 -!- mkoci_koca [n=mkoci at nat/redhat/x-b28f1ff124952678] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:21 -!- kital [n=Joerg_Si at fedora/kital] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:22 * laubersm notes the EPEL page says Mon 15:00 UTC 11:22 -!- danielsmw [n=danielsm at user-24-214-179-165.knology.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:22 < jjmcd> hey speak of the devil 11:22 * danielsmw looks around 11:22 * laubersm points at danielsmw 11:23 * danielsmw hides in the corner from... something? 11:23 < laubersm> danielsmw: We are talking about new meeting times 11:23 < danielsmw> Oh! 11:23 < danielsmw> Okay. 11:23 < laubersm> Thus 00:00 is leading the pack 11:23 < laubersm> Thurs 11:23 < Jeff_S> laubersm: EPEL never seems to meet at that time... we were going to look into changing it (again) :) 11:23 < laubersm> danielsmw: But you are not listed in that block as available 11:23 < danielsmw> um.... 11:23 < danielsmw> well, let's see. 11:24 < quaid> Jeff_S: yeah, I'd like to help us get back on track there 11:24 < danielsmw> 00:00 = 7 PM EST, right? 11:24 < laubersm> danielsmw: That is Wed 7pm Eastern 11:24 < Jeff_S> quaid: me too :) 11:24 < danielsmw> right 11:24 < danielsmw> um... 11:24 < danielsmw> That's do-able. 11:24 < danielsmw> It's not as convenient as other times, but I can make that work. 11:24 * laubersm cheers 11:24 < jjmcd> well, 7PM for a few more days 11:24 < danielsmw> If that's the will of the party. 11:24 -!- StabbyMc [n=StabbyMc at 99-172-18-135.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:25 < laubersm> hmm jjmcd is right - 7pm standard time - 8pm daylight savings time which starts soon 11:25 * laubersm thinks it is spring forward and fall back 11:26 < danielsmw> That sounds right 11:26 < jjmcd> yep which makes it 8 11:26 * jjmcd thinks we are far too technological a society to be worshiping the sun god anyway 11:27 < laubersm> beginning Mar 8 11:27 < quaid> jjmcd: or we could just give up on our silly artificial conventions and go back to worshipping the sun god, either way 11:27 < danielsmw> so 00:00 UTC starting March 8th? 11:27 < quaid> yes 11:27 < danielsmw> March 8th UTC? 11:28 < danielsmw> Oh right, that's DST. 11:28 < danielsmw> Okay. 11:28 < laubersm> 00:00 on Thursdays starting - ????? 11:28 < laubersm> March is when that the time changes 11:28 < quaid> oh dear 11:28 -!- hondra [n=cschu at nat/redhat/x-490de093a5c6acad] has quit ["chramst..mlask..hehehe"] 11:28 < quaid> but that's the way it is 11:28 < laubersm> when thinking local clock 11:29 -!- lcafiero [n=larry at dsl-63-249-115-153.cruzio.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:29 < quaid> last open question was. 11:29 < laubersm> quaid: new meeting time next week? or the following (after the EST->EDT change) 11:29 < quaid> are we going to start a few minutes early? or 0000 is OK? 11:29 < jjmcd> I'm for dividing the year into 100 days and the day into 100 hours and stop all this 7/24/28/29/30/31 nonsense 11:29 < danielsmw> good call jjmcd 11:29 < danielsmw> metric for the win. 11:30 < jjmcd> Until Mar 8 I can only be a few minutes early. After that don't matter 11:30 < nirik> jjmcd: see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swatch_Internet_Time 11:30 < jjmcd> danielsmw: if we did it right we might even get rid of the leap second 11:31 * laubersm notices we are once again too distracted.... 11:31 < danielsmw> I mean, look, do we really need to base years on the seasons? 11:31 < danielsmw> I say we just reboot at year 0 and base it off a physical constant 11:31 < danielsmw> Anyway, yeah 11:31 * quaid notes that much of the world does care about the seasons intimately 11:31 < danielsmw> sorry laubersm 11:31 < quaid> let us not forget that as we sit in our wee towers :) 11:31 < quaid> how about this: 11:32 < quaid> put in your vote for start new time at 8 march or 15 march 11:32 * quaid 8 march 11:32 < laubersm> wait 11:32 < laubersm> Mar 8 is a Sunday 11:32 < jjmcd> So Mar 11 or 18 11:32 < jjmcd> 11 11:33 * laubersm Thurs March 12 00:00 UTC 11:33 < jjmcd> yes, exactly 11:33 < laubersm> I think we are all agreeing on the week at least :) 11:33 -!- mdomsch [n=mdomsch at cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:33 < quaid> sorry 11:34 * quaid blames the flu 11:34 < jjmcd> excuses, excuses 11:34 * laubersm is almost over it 11:34 < quaid> umm, what about 4 Mar then? 11:35 < jjmcd> 4 mar 1900 or 5 mar 0000? I could go either way 11:35 < laubersm> I would say just skip a week - but feature freeze is next week so I guess we should meet 11:35 < quaid> we should 11:35 < quaid> sorry, let's do this right, give me a moment: 11:35 -!- lcafiero [n=larry at dsl-63-249-115-153.cruzio.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:35 < quaid> vote 5 Mar 0000, or 11:36 < quaid> vote 12 Mar 0000, or 11:36 < quaid> vote 19 Mar 0000 11:36 < quaid> right? 11:36 * quaid votes 5 Mar 11:36 * laubersm 5 Mar 0000 11:36 * danielsmw Abstains 11:37 < jjmcd> 5 mar 0000 11:38 < kirkz> 5 mar 11:39 < quaid> ok then 11:39 < quaid> we'll start next week 11:39 -!- fbijlsma [n=fbijlsma at p54B2F6FB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:39 < quaid> and with that ... 11:39 -!- quaid changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs mtg :::: Wiki page changes 11:40 < quaid> I'm guessing we'd love to hear what laubersm has been up to? 11:40 < laubersm> Progress is being made 11:40 < laubersm> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project 11:40 < laubersm> I can finish up the docsproject.psv list by tomorrow - but I don't mind letting someone else do the 11:40 < laubersm> cut and paste work 11:41 < laubersm> most are in the categories now 11:41 < laubersm> (don't forget to look in the sub cats) 11:41 < laubersm> but a bunch still need someone to use the "move" tab 11:42 < laubersm> Then we need to clean up the remaining content to be usable 11:42 < laubersm> This step took care of names, categories, and an initial pass at archiving 11:43 < quaid> how hard was it? 11:43 < laubersm> hard? not at all 11:43 < laubersm> boring? eye crossing? tedious? 11:44 < jjmcd> just tedious 11:44 * laubersm wishes wikibot could have done it. 11:44 * quaid agrees, sadly 11:44 < laubersm> quaid: you did the hard part - filtering out what to archive, what to name, and what categories 11:44 < quaid> but we did get one new value. 11:44 < quaid> we know that if we expect people to rename their pages 11:45 < jjmcd> But there were a lot of category issues we would have missed had we just done wikibot 11:45 < quaid> they will not do it by hand and we need wikibot :) 11:45 -!- John5342 [n=john5342 at fedora/John5342] has joined #fedora-meeting 11:45 < laubersm> There are still plenty of pages to be cleaned up - in and out of docs 11:45 < quaid> jjmcd: after cleaning up the PSV? 11:45 < quaid> or you mean, existing categories on pages? 11:45 < jjmcd> I didn't update the psv 11:46 < jjmcd> Some obvious categories missing on psv 11:46 * quaid meant all the case mistakes he made in the categories in the PSV ref. cleaning up 11:46 < quaid> presuming a clean PSV to start, what would wikibot have missed for us? 11:46 < laubersm> I cleanup up the the archive -> archives and a few of the case things 11:46 < laubersm> there were not many left 11:47 < laubersm> quaid: I think wikibot would have been fine after another proofreading of the psv file 11:48 < jjmcd> Yes, if one could get brain engaged reading psv 11:48 -!- StabbyMc [n=StabbyMc at 99-172-18-135.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has left #fedora-meeting ["Stab ya later!"] 11:49 -!- jmoskovc` [n=Mozkum at nat/redhat/x-008bc2f54ac5df59] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:49 < laubersm> I'm working on getting StabbyMc to take a stab at the Events/ and FedoraEvents/ pages 11:49 < quaid> cool, that's good 11:49 < laubersm> (no that he has left) 11:49 < quaid> laubersm: wow 11:49 < quaid> that would be cool 11:49 < quaid> yeah, we need FedoraEvents as a URL to disappear 11:50 < laubersm> marketing has started their pages 11:50 < laubersm> package maintainers is basically done 11:50 < laubersm> packaging drafts is getting there 11:52 < laubersm> but the event stuff showing up in searches for new users and contributors would be really good 11:52 < quaid> coo' 11:52 < quaid> wiki gardening lives! 11:52 < quaid> anything more or time to bug ke4qqq? 11:53 * laubersm has been done 11:53 < quaid> and are we in fact gating on ke4qqq to make more progress on the CMS? 11:53 * quaid said 'gating'! argh! 11:54 < quaid> don't think anyone here can answer, huh? 11:54 < quaid> abadger1999: ping 11:54 < abadger1999> quaid: pong 11:55 -!- mdomsch [n=mdomsch at cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"] 11:55 < itbegins_> i am here 11:55 < abadger1999> I think that's the case. itbegins, you talked to ke4qqq last. 11:55 < abadger1999> We're just waiting on packaging? 11:55 < itbegins_> i am waiting on packaging before i can reinstall the test instance 11:55 < quaid> he's made progress, but what I really mean is ... 11:55 < quaid> can we be making progress without packages? 11:55 < quaid> ok, I see 11:56 < quaid> could the Docs people be entering stuff in that survives the reinstall? 11:56 < itbegins_> the only areas i have to really deal with are theme/design and the dics build script 11:56 < quaid> can someone be working on the final tweaks to the CSS? 11:56 < quaid> ok 11:56 < quaid> do you need help with the theme? 11:56 < itbegins_> the database will survive packaging, so yes 11:56 < quaid> we have Websites/Design people with CSS experience. 11:57 < itbegins_> design is not my strongpoint, but I can probably handle a simple port 11:57 < quaid> abadger1999: what do you think about us entering stuff? we could be getting used to using it for publishing? 11:57 < itbegins_> if you want changes, getting the design people to handle it might be a good plan 11:57 < quaid> itbegins_: if you have any questions, feel free to use fedora-websites-list 11:57 < quaid> nah, we want to look like Fedora 11:57 < quaid> and it's probably worth showing your CSS to -websites-l 11:57 < itbegins_> might be worth it anyway, so they are familiar with the new system?... 11:58 < quaid> mduffy has some good ideas on how to nest the CSS, or something 11:58 < quaid> itbegins_: peripherally, they should be aware 11:58 < itbegins_> Sorry, slow to type, on mobile 11:58 < abadger1999> quaid: Probably be okay..... We would need to dump the test db and reload it on the production mysql server when we do a real deploy. 11:59 < quaid> abadger1999: sure, that was what I meant :) ... if that's likely safe enough ... 11:59 < abadger1999> permissions are stored in the same db? 11:59 < itbegins_> ok, well Ill see what I can do about finishing the css, and Ill chase progress on the build script 11:59 < quaid> itbegins_: we can discuss on list when it's safest for Docs people to start actually doing stuff to populate with structure and content. 11:59 < itbegins_> abadger1999: yes, access control and content are all the same db 11:59 < quaid> s/on list/on docs list/ 11:59 < abadger1999> Can we dump the docs but not the permissions and reload those in the new db? Or will that mess up authorship and such? 12:00 < itbegins_> abadger1999: shouldn't be a problem, providin,g we dont dump user records 12:00 < quaid> jjmcd: if you 've got a second, can you say a quick update on the release notes for the IRC log 12:00 < jjmcd> OK 12:00 < abadger1999> itbegins_: I think we can live with that. 12:00 < jjmcd> Been a little slow past week here - computer probls 12:01 < jjmcd> I need some help with F10 update 12:01 < jjmcd> Otherwise not a lot of news really, plugging along 12:01 < itbegins_> ok, Ill duck out now, supposed to be sitting at a restaurant table... 12:01 < quaid> itbegins_: :) 12:01 < quaid> jjmcd: do you all have a recruitment plan for Beats? or something like that? 12:02 < quaid> in my experience, getting a wide range of valuable content from the real sources is the hardest nut to crack. 12:02 < quaid> jjmcd: I'm available to help you with F10 update, if anybody 12:02 < jjmcd> Not a plan, am doing some recruiting but more or less andom 12:02 < quaid> ok, when we see ryanlerch later let's ask him what he thinks and etc.? 12:02 < jjmcd> but a strategy would be a good thing 12:02 -!- knurd is now known as knurd_afk 12:02 < quaid> ok,we're over the clock 12:03 < quaid> I think there is a mtg here and time to move on anyway 12:03 < jjmcd> (onna phone with some pretty strange stuff) 12:03 < quaid> if there is anything more for the record .... 12:03 * quaid counts down 12:03 < quaid> 5 12:03 < quaid> 4 12:03 < quaid> 3 12:03 < quaid> 2 12:03 < quaid> 1 12:03 < quaid> -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Feb 25 23:19:13 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 15:19:13 -0800 Subject: Docs team meeting 2009-02-25 summary Message-ID: <20090225231913.GD4356@calliope.phig.org> Attendees ========= John J. McDonough (jjmcd) Kirk Ziegler (kirkz) Karsten Wade (quaid) Paul W. Frields (stickster) Susan Lauber (laubersm) Matthew Daniels (danielsmw) Simon Birtwistle (itbegins_) Toshio Kuratomi (abadger1999) IRC log ======= https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090225 http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-February/msg00170.html Summary ======= * New meeting time * 0000 UTC Thu. == 1600 PST Wed. == 1900 EST Wed. == 1000 BNE Thu. * Starting 05 March 0000 UTC (04 March) * Need to confirm that this can work for ryanlerch * FIXED TIME -- Does not change with daylight savings time in a few weeks * Feature freeze is next week * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project * Progress made on [[Docs Project]] * The file docsproject.psv was cleaned and found useful * More work to be done, not difficult just tedious ** Help wanted * A clean PSV == potentially good wikibot results * wikibot would have been a big tedium breaker ** Need wikibot for wider adoption of page renaming * Package maintainer and draft pages are proceeding * Marketing is working on their pages, also a focus on [[*Events]] by StabbyMc (Scott McBrien) * CMS packaging is moving ahead, ke4qqq needs to update his review request * itbegins may use some help with theme/CSS finishing; taking it to fedora-websites-list if he needs it * Packaging needed to reinstall test instance * itbegins still needs to do the docs build scripts * Docs can potentially start loading content and structure, have it appear live in the final production instance * Release notes * F10 update help needed; jjmcd to work with quaid on CVS check-in issues * Recruitment plan for new beat writers? ** 18 March is the next release team meeting, good time to ask for beat help where we've already tried other methods -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu Feb 26 00:44:19 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:44:19 +1000 Subject: Install Guide now in Publican In-Reply-To: <20090225135152.GA19287@localhost.localdomain> References: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> <20090225135152.GA19287@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49A5E5E3.3020207@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Really? Isn't using &DISTRO; a pretty good way to go, as opposed to > doing manual search and replace on "Fedora"? On the other hand, I'm > sure the usage wasn't consistent throughout which is surely a problem > in itself. > Some languages attach various grammatical elements (articles, prepositions, case markers) to nouns, which means that an entity that always appears exactly the same way in English may take a number of different forms in a target language that behaves this way. By way of illustration: In Czech, if "Fedora" is the subject of a sentence, it's written "Fedora". However, if "Fedora" is the direct object of the sentence, it becomes "Fedoru", if it has a possessive sense ("Fedora's" or "of Fedora" in English), it becomes "Fedory", if it's an indirect object or indicating a location ("to Fedora", "in Fedora") it's "Fedo?e", and if it has an "instrumental" sense ("with Fedora") it's "Fedorou" . So: "Fedora is a Linux distribution" -> "Fedora je linuxov? distribuce" (note also what happens to "Linux" in this sentence; if it were the subject of the sentence it would be "linuxov?") but "Get Fedora" -> "St?hnout Fedoru" and "Installation of Fedora" -> "In?tal?cia Fedory" and "People involved in Fedora" -> "Lid? pod?lej?c? se na Fedo?e" and "The most common problems with Fedora" -> "Nejb??n?j?? probl?my s Fedorou" (there's another form as well, the "vocative", which you would use when calling out to Fedora ? "Oh mighty Fedora!" ? but I can't find a practical example of this) But in short: seven different grammatical cases represented by six different forms of the word; all supposed to be represented by one single entity in English. [1] English pronouns still inflect for grammatical case, so this would be like deciding to set an entity for the word "he". That's fine as the subject of a sentence, but what do you do when the sentence needs the pronoun to change to "him" or "his"? Thanks Paul for the pointers to fedora-trans-list and the package maintainer's site. I still need a few of these signposts :) and thanks to all for the positive feedback so far. Cheers Rudi [1] Actually, I'm not a Czech speaker. The situation is very similar in Russian (which I know a little) but didn't want to use that as an example because of the different alphabet. The examples I've used here, however, are collected from the Internet (in particular, from http://www.fedora.cz/ ), and are not of my own devising. My apologies to any Czech speakers reading this if I haven't got things quite right! Even if I have munged things up a little at some point, I think it still illustrates the pitfalls of using entities that indicate a particular form in English when translating into a highly-inflected target language. Russian and Czech have seven cases for nouns. Finnish has fifteen, and Hungarian has seventeen. From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Thu Feb 26 02:46:51 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 21:46:51 -0500 Subject: Install Guide now in Publican In-Reply-To: <49A5E5E3.3020207@redhat.com> References: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> <20090225135152.GA19287@localhost.localdomain> <49A5E5E3.3020207@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 7:44 PM, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >> Really? Isn't using &DISTRO; a pretty good way to go, as opposed to >> doing manual search and replace on "Fedora"? On the other hand, I'm >> sure the usage wasn't consistent throughout which is surely a problem >> in itself. >> > > Some languages attach various grammatical elements (articles, prepositions, > case markers) to nouns, which means that an entity that always appears > exactly the same way in English may take a number of different forms in a > target language that behaves this way. > > By way of illustration: In Czech, if "Fedora" is the subject of a sentence, > it's written "Fedora". However, if "Fedora" is the direct object of the > sentence, it becomes "Fedoru", if it has a possessive sense ("Fedora's" or > "of Fedora" in English), it becomes "Fedory", if it's an indirect object or > indicating a location ("to Fedora", "in Fedora") it's "Fedo?e", and if it > has an "instrumental" sense ("with Fedora") it's "Fedorou" . So: > > "Fedora is a Linux distribution" -> "Fedora je linuxov? distribuce" (note > also what happens to "Linux" in this sentence; if it were the subject of the > sentence it would be "linuxov?") > > but > > "Get Fedora" -> "St?hnout Fedoru" > > and > > "Installation of Fedora" -> "In?tal?cia Fedory" > > and > > "People involved in Fedora" -> "Lid? pod?lej?c? se na Fedo?e" > > and > > "The most common problems with Fedora" -> "Nejb??n?j?? probl?my s Fedorou" > > (there's another form as well, the "vocative", which you would use when > calling out to Fedora - "Oh mighty Fedora!" - but I can't find a practical > example of this) But in short: seven different grammatical cases represented > by six different forms of the word; all supposed to be represented by one > single entity in English. [1] > > English pronouns still inflect for grammatical case, so this would be like > deciding to set an entity for the word "he". That's fine as the subject of a > sentence, but what do you do when the sentence needs the pronoun to change > to "him" or "his"? > > Thanks Paul for the pointers to fedora-trans-list and the package > maintainer's site. I still need a few of these signposts :) and thanks to > all for the positive feedback so far. > > Cheers > Rudi > > > [1] Actually, I'm not a Czech speaker. The situation is very similar in > Russian (which I know a little) but didn't want to use that as an example > because of the different alphabet. The examples I've used here, however, are > collected from the Internet (in particular, from http://www.fedora.cz/ ), > and are not of my own devising. My apologies to any Czech speakers reading > this if I haven't got things quite right! Even if I have munged things up a > little at some point, I think it still illustrates the pitfalls of using > entities that indicate a particular form in English when translating into a > highly-inflected target language. Russian and Czech have seven cases for > nouns. Finnish has fifteen, and Hungarian has seventeen. > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > I may be showing my ignorance here.....but I thought that since Fedora is a trademark, and a proper name that it was always Fedora. Much as I am always David regardless of what country I may be in or language I may be speaking. From jwulf at redhat.com Thu Feb 26 03:41:50 2009 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 13:41:50 +1000 Subject: Install Guide now in Publican In-Reply-To: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> References: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> Message-ID: <49A60F7E.5050400@redhat.com> r0ck out! Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Hey all, > > just letting you know that the Installation Guide is now fully > "Publicanized". > > I can confirm that every language version of the guide builds in html, > html-single, and PDF, with only one exception -- Chinese Simplified. I > /can/ confirm that Chinese Simplified builds in html and html-single, > but I haven't been able to confirm that it builds in PDF [1]. > > RPM building also works. > > I've placed the publicanized version of the guide in the master branch > of the repo, and the f10 version in its own branch. > > There are small structural changes between the f10 version of the > files and the files in the current master branch, specifically: > > * the Guide now includes Publican's standard Preface, which explains > the typographic conventions used in the document > * by default, Publican places the "Feedback" section in the Preface, > so I've moved it there from its previous position in the "Introduction" > * the "Colophon" wasn't really a colophon; I've renamed it to > "Contributors and production methods", which is what it actually > contains. The "Contributors" section within this now includes a full > list of the community translators who have worked on the guide (I drew > these from the translation files). > * the Tamil translation file didn't actually contain any translations; > I've removed it for the moment. > * I've removed most of the entities that were used in the document; > not only were they a real mess, but they were going to create > significant problems when positioning the guide upstream of the RHEL > Installation Guide > * I've added country codes to folders containing translation files for > certain languages, so Publican can take advantage of the Common > Content already built into Publican for these languages. Note that > these folders are named according to the IETF RFC 4646 standard that > XML uses for language and country codes, not the GNU hybrid of "ISO > 639-2 language code and two-letter ISO 3166 country code separated by > an underscore". Publican expects to see the RFC 4646 version. I'm > aware that the inclusion of a country code is a contentious area for > some translators, and have filed a bug about this [2]. Note that this > issue doesn't presently affect languages that we don't have any Common > Content for, but I've also renamed the Serbian-with-Latin-alphabet > folder in compliance with RFC 4646. > > Some urgent action is now needed on the localization front: > * f10 needs to be presented as a valid branch in the Transifex system; > and the separate .po files of the Publicanized version need to be made > available to translators > * Publican includes two "Common Content" files that need translation > into languages that Red Hat doesn't support. They are "Conventions" > (which explains the document conventions) and "Feedback" [3]. The > great news here is that once these have been translated into any given > language, they will be available for /all/ Publicanized Fedora docs > produced in that language, since the .po files can be built into the > Fedora brand that installs with Publican. I've generated .pot files > for these three sections. Other than approaching translators directly, > is there another way to bring these to community attention? > > On the RPM front: > * What needs to happen to get an RPM of this document approved for > inclusion in Fedora? > > What I'm doing next: > * working out how content can be merged between the Fedora and Red Hat > Enterprise Linux Installation Guides, which will allow the Fedora > version to be positioned upstream > > Cheers > Rudi > > [1] on my machine, the build process finishes successfully and > generates a PDF file, but the body text contains nothing but > whitespace (although the chapter and section headings render > correctly). I suspect this is simply a problem on my machine, however, > and haven't tested it on anyone else's yet. > [2] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=487256 > [3] the Installation Guide doesn't use the Common "Feedback" section ? > it has its own, custom "Feedback" section instead. We still need to > get this translated into as many languages as possible ASAP, both for > the sake of other Fedora Docs, and in case we want future versions of > the Installation Guide to line up with what's in the docs that /are/ > using the standard "Feedback" section. > -- Joshua J Wulf Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific eml: jwulf at redhat.com tel: +61 (0)7 3514 8140 mob: +61 (0)431 929 675 tmz: GMT +10 (0) - omit when dialling internationally From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu Feb 26 05:28:58 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 15:28:58 +1000 Subject: Install Guide now in Publican In-Reply-To: References: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> <20090225135152.GA19287@localhost.localdomain> <49A5E5E3.3020207@redhat.com> Message-ID: <49A6289A.8060507@redhat.com> David Nalley wrote: > I may be showing my ignorance here.....but I thought that since > Fedora is a trademark, and a proper name that it was always Fedora. > Much as I am always David regardless of what country I may be in or > language I may be speaking. > Short answer: No A longer and more complete answer: Inflected languages inflect proper nouns as well (including trademarks). It's worth keeping in mind that these inflections are not just something "tacked onto" the noun; they represents a fundamentally different way of structuring the language from the way that Modern English does it. They're an essential part of how these languages work, which is counter-intuitive for English speakers. To stick with the previous example, if people were talking about you in Czech: Subject in a sentence: David Possessive: Davida "David's book" -> "Kniha Davida" Direct object in a sentence: Davida Indirect object of a sentence: Davidovi Vocative: Davide "Hey David!" -> "Ahoj Davide!" I'm on shaky ground here with the specifics, so I'll leave it at that. Note that English has a tiny remnant of this as well; your name changes from "David" to "David's" to indicate possession. [1] To give you an idea of the range of languages for which this is an issue, they include, just in Europe, all the Slavic languages (eg. Russian, Czech, Polish, Serbian, Croatian and many many more) the Finno-Ugaric languages (Finnish, Hungarian, Estonian and others ? these have a /highly/ complex case system), as well as Turkish, Greek, and Armenian. Note that so far, I've only discussed the way that grammatical case can change nouns, but languages change nouns for other reasons too, such as to affix or suffix articles onto them. Cheers Rudi [1] Old English (Anglo-Saxon) also had a system of inflected endings for nouns, but with only four cases, rather than Czech's seven and Hungarian's seventeen. The possessive singular ending for masculine nouns in Anglo-Saxon was "es" (so "David's book" -> "Davides boke"). This carried over into Middle English for almost all nouns, regardless of grammatical gender or number. Modern English retains an apostrophe to show where an "e" has been left out for the past 600 years or so, in precisely the same way that the apostrophe in "don't" shows where an "o" has been left out. From jkstriangle at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 05:42:25 2009 From: jkstriangle at gmail.com (Sibir Chakraborty) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:12:25 +0530 Subject: Steps for Thunderbird migration from Windows Vista to Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Ragarding access to Thunderbird profile, kindly note that: On Windows Vista/XP/2000, the path is usually %AppData%\Thunderbird\Profiles\xxxxxxxx.default\, where xxxxxxxx is a random string of 8 characters. Also, C:\users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\ is the access path that I found in Vista. This is required to be updated in the docs mentioned below. In am a newbie to the forum...and you request and appreciate if someone guides me through. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Secondly I would also like to add one more guidance tip on the section at : *Application Data Folder* If you are unable to fing AppData, please do the following: Start > Run > enter %AppData% and press Enter. You will be taken to the "real" folder, which is C:\users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming on Windows Vista. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, it would be nice to know that, users can move around the Profile to some location or sda where the sda is not full(enough HD space). It is also possible to backup on a Remote Mounted location. To do this: Shut down Thunderbird completely 1. Go to: the path is ~/.thunderbird/ 2. In profiles.ini, locate the entry for the profile you've just moved. Change the Path= line to the new location 3. Change IsRelative=1 to IsRelative=0 and lastly. 4. Save profiles.ini and restart Thunderbird. Thanks, Sibir ********************************************************************************************************************** On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:38 AM, Kirk wrote: > I've written the steps needed to migrate Thunderbird Profile Data from > Windows XP. I don't have access to Vista. Could someone read over this > section for me that's more familiar with Vista and let me know if > different steps are required? > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Communications#Moving_Your_Thunderbird_Profile_Data_from_Windows_to_Fedora > > Thanks, > > -Kirk > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From kirk202 at q.com Thu Feb 26 05:55:24 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 22:55:24 -0700 Subject: Steps for Thunderbird migration from Windows Vista to Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:12:25 +0530 Sibir Chakraborty wrote: I'll get your suggestions incorporated. Thanks for your input. -Kirk > Hi all, > > Ragarding access to Thunderbird profile, kindly note that: On Windows > Vista/XP/2000, the path is usually > %AppData%\Thunderbird\Profiles\xxxxxxxx.default\, where xxxxxxxx is a > random string of 8 characters. > > Also, C:\users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\ is > the access path that I found in Vista. This is required to be updated > in the docs mentioned below. > > In am a newbie to the forum...and you request and appreciate if > someone guides me through. > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Secondly I would also like to add one more guidance tip on the > section at : *Application Data Folder* > If you are unable to fing AppData, please do the following: > > Start > Run > enter %AppData% and press Enter. You will be taken to > the "real" folder, which is C:\users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming on > Windows Vista. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Also, it would be nice to know that, users can move around the > Profile to some location or sda where the sda is not full(enough HD > space). It is also possible to backup on a Remote Mounted location. > > To do this: > > Shut down Thunderbird completely > > 1. Go to: the path is ~/.thunderbird/ > 2. In profiles.ini, locate the entry for the profile you've just > moved. Change the Path= line to the new location > 3. Change IsRelative=1 to IsRelative=0 and lastly. > 4. Save profiles.ini and restart Thunderbird. > > Thanks, > Sibir > > ********************************************************************************************************************** > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:38 AM, Kirk wrote: > > > I've written the steps needed to migrate Thunderbird Profile Data > > from Windows XP. I don't have access to Vista. Could someone read > > over this section for me that's more familiar with Vista and let me > > know if different steps are required? > > > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Communications#Moving_Your_Thunderbird_Profile_Data_from_Windows_to_Fedora > > > > Thanks, > > > > -Kirk > > > > -- > > fedora-docs-list mailing list > > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > > To unsubscribe: > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > From nushio at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 05:58:08 2009 From: nushio at gmail.com (Juan M. Rodriguez) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:58:08 -0600 Subject: Steps for Thunderbird migration from Windows Vista to Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:42 PM, Sibir Chakraborty wrote: > Hi all, > > Ragarding access to Thunderbird profile, kindly note that: On Windows > Vista/XP/2000, the path is usually > %AppData%\Thunderbird\Profiles\xxxxxxxx.default\, where xxxxxxxx is a random > string of 8 characters. > > Also, C:\users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\ is the > access path that I found in Vista. This is required to be updated in the > docs mentioned below. > > In am a newbie to the forum...and you request and appreciate if someone > guides me through. > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Secondly I would also like to add one more guidance tip on the section at : > *Application Data Folder* > If you are unable to fing AppData, please do the following: > > Start > Run > enter %AppData% and press Enter. You will be taken to the > "real" folder, which is C:\users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming on Windows > Vista. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Also, it would be nice to know that, users can move around the Profile to > some location or sda where the sda is not full(enough HD space). It is also > possible to backup on a Remote Mounted location. > > To do this: > > Shut down Thunderbird completely > > 1. Go to: the path is ~/.thunderbird/ > 2. In profiles.ini, locate the entry for the profile you've just moved. > Change the Path= line to the new location > 3. Change IsRelative=1 to IsRelative=0 and lastly. > 4. Save profiles.ini and restart Thunderbird. > > Thanks, > Sibir > > > ********************************************************************************************************************** > > On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:38 AM, Kirk wrote: > >> I've written the steps needed to migrate Thunderbird Profile Data from >> Windows XP. I don't have access to Vista. Could someone read over this >> section for me that's more familiar with Vista and let me know if >> different steps are required? >> >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Communications#Moving_Your_Thunderbird_Profile_Data_from_Windows_to_Fedora >> >> Thanks, >> >> -Kirk >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > > Hey Sibir, Thanks for your corrections, as I said, I'm no Vista user so I couldn't check if anything else had changed. I'm updating the Wiki page to make up for my mistake. Thanks! -Nushio -- Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From jkstriangle at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 06:06:49 2009 From: jkstriangle at gmail.com (Sibir Chakraborty) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 11:36:49 +0530 Subject: Steps for Thunderbird migration from Windows Vista to Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi all, Thanks for getting the info in. Can't wait to see F11 rocking ! I am already trying that out in 3 of my machines. Trying on different combination on Vista to Fedora migration...Will keep posted... Thanks, Sibir On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Juan M. Rodriguez wrote: > > > On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:42 PM, Sibir Chakraborty > wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> Ragarding access to Thunderbird profile, kindly note that: On Windows >> Vista/XP/2000, the path is usually >> %AppData%\Thunderbird\Profiles\xxxxxxxx.default\, where xxxxxxxx is a random >> string of 8 characters. >> >> Also, C:\users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\ is the >> access path that I found in Vista. This is required to be updated in the >> docs mentioned below. >> >> In am a newbie to the forum...and you request and appreciate if someone >> guides me through. >> >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Secondly I would also like to add one more guidance tip on the section at >> : *Application Data Folder* >> If you are unable to fing AppData, please do the following: >> >> Start > Run > enter %AppData% and press Enter. You will be taken to the >> "real" folder, which is C:\users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming on Windows >> Vista. >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Also, it would be nice to know that, users can move around the Profile to >> some location or sda where the sda is not full(enough HD space). It is also >> possible to backup on a Remote Mounted location. >> >> To do this: >> >> Shut down Thunderbird completely >> >> 1. Go to: the path is ~/.thunderbird/ >> 2. In profiles.ini, locate the entry for the profile you've just moved. >> Change the Path= line to the new location >> 3. Change IsRelative=1 to IsRelative=0 and lastly. >> 4. Save profiles.ini and restart Thunderbird. >> >> Thanks, >> Sibir >> >> >> ********************************************************************************************************************** >> >> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:38 AM, Kirk wrote: >> >>> I've written the steps needed to migrate Thunderbird Profile Data from >>> Windows XP. I don't have access to Vista. Could someone read over this >>> section for me that's more familiar with Vista and let me know if >>> different steps are required? >>> >>> >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Communications#Moving_Your_Thunderbird_Profile_Data_from_Windows_to_Fedora >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> -Kirk >>> >>> -- >>> fedora-docs-list mailing list >>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >>> To unsubscribe: >>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >>> >> >> Hey Sibir, > > Thanks for your corrections, as I said, I'm no Vista user so I couldn't > check if anything else had changed. > > I'm updating the Wiki page to make up for my mistake. > > Thanks! > > -Nushio > > -- > Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno > Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos > Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 15:45:30 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 10:45:30 -0500 Subject: Install Guide now in Publican In-Reply-To: <49A5E5E3.3020207@redhat.com> References: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> <20090225135152.GA19287@localhost.localdomain> <49A5E5E3.3020207@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090226154530.GB7391@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 10:44:19AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> Really? Isn't using &DISTRO; a pretty good way to go, as opposed to >> doing manual search and replace on "Fedora"? On the other hand, I'm >> sure the usage wasn't consistent throughout which is surely a problem >> in itself. >> > Some languages attach various grammatical elements (articles, > prepositions, case markers) to nouns, which means that an entity that > always appears exactly the same way in English may take a number of > different forms in a target language that behaves this way. As soon as I read the first sentence I remembered exactly this problem that we had in our translations originally. That's why, in the Fedora Docs toolchain, our entites are parsed before being committed to the POT. That way the translators see the real text and can translate appropriately for their parts of speech. So if our XML text included: Welcome to &DISTRO;. ...in the POT that would end up as: msgid "" "Welcome to Fedora." ...and then the translator could handle that string as any other. We tried leaving the entities in the POT file for about a week, and the translators quickly reminded us of the same thing you did -- requirements for noun declinations, and so forth. So we reverted to the behavior above. The precise way we do this is with the command 'xml2po -e', using the gnome-doc-utils package. We tried the '-k' switch in the past, which caused the problem I just described, so we went back to '-e'. In fact, I think you'll find a note in our old toolchain Makefile saying something like "Don't ever use '-k', that would be stupid." :-D So would I be correct in thinking that's not what Publican does, and that entities are only supposed to be used in Publican docs to represent non-translatables like a year or a company name? > Thanks Paul for the pointers to fedora-trans-list and the package > maintainer's site. I still need a few of these signposts :) and thanks to > all for the positive feedback so far. Thank you for all your hard work. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kirk202 at q.com Thu Feb 26 16:42:15 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 09:42:15 -0700 Subject: Linux Starter Pack Message-ID: I read over the Linux Start Pack at http://www.tuxradar.com/linuxstarterpack . This magazine is published by Linux Format. I liked it because its very user-friendly, therefore, a good sales tool for people thinking about switching from Windows to Linux. The majority of the article is a comprehensive User Guide. The magazine came with a Live CD for Ubuntu so folks could follow along with the user guide and really get a feel for Linux and the distro. The article is 130 pages with about 85% - 90% being the user guide. We should consider doing something like this when we can. We could follow a similar format and put it out in magazine form, if we have the resources, put it on the web, or both. It would be large project but worthwhile for getting the word out about Fedora. Browse through it if you get a chance and see what you think. -Kirk From kirk202 at q.com Thu Feb 26 21:43:18 2009 From: kirk202 at q.com (Kirk) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 14:43:18 -0700 Subject: Linux Start Pack Review Message-ID: I read over the Linux Start Pack at http://www.tuxradar.com/linuxstarterpack . This magazine is published by Linux Format. I liked it because its very user-friendly, therefore, a good sales tool for people thinking about switching from Windows to Linux. The majority of the article is a comprehensive User Guide. The magazine came with a Live CD for Ubuntu so folks could follow along with the user guide and really get a feel for Linux and the distro. The article is 130 pages with about 85% - 90% being the user guide. We should consider doing something like this when we can. We could follow a similar format and put it out in magazine form, if we have the resources, put it on the web, or both. It would be large project but worthwhile for getting the word out about Fedora. Browse through it if you get a chance and see what you think. -Kirk From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu Feb 26 23:01:10 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:01:10 +1000 Subject: Install Guide now in Publican In-Reply-To: <20090226154530.GB7391@localhost.localdomain> References: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> <20090225135152.GA19287@localhost.localdomain> <49A5E5E3.3020207@redhat.com> <20090226154530.GB7391@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <49A71F36.1050906@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > So would I be correct in thinking that's not what Publican does, and > that entities are only supposed to be used in Publican docs to > represent non-translatables like a year or a company name? > Yes, that's correct. Publican is built on the KDE tool xml2pot, not the GNOME tool xml2po, and xml2pot doesn't have the "-e" option that xml2po does. Publican uses xml2pot because it is /significantly/ faster than xml2po, which is important when handling the huge documents that we work with in Red Hat Engineering Content Services. To put the difference in perspective: while Publican was in early development, conversions of the Red Hat Enterprise Linux Deployment Guide (a document of around 300,000 words) were done with both tools. Xml2pot finished the entire run in all 23 languages around the same time that xml2po finished the /first/ language! That said, there are such obvious advantages to using entities such as &DISTRO; so this is something that will no doubt be revisited if and when xml2pot ever gets an option equivalent to "-e". But for now, we just can't do it. Cheers Rudi From jkstriangle at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 05:22:01 2009 From: jkstriangle at gmail.com (Sibir Chakraborty) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 10:52:01 +0530 Subject: Steps for Thunderbird migration from Windows Vista to Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hi Kirk/all, In any of the guides, I am not finding a very useful info. I use all the time and I am pretty sure it helps a lot in all Networking companies using large shared drives on Windows to Fedora... The steps are actually very simple: *Map windows drives on Fedora linux:* There are several ways though. You will first need to share a folder/drive on your Windows computer so that it can accessed through network. You can do this by right-clicking on the folder/drive that you would like to share and selecting the ?Sharing? option. 1.mkdir -p /mnt/ntserver 2. mount -t cifs //ntserver/download -o username=vivek,password=myPassword /mnt/ntserver2. Where: t smbfs : File system type to be mount (outdated, use cifs) -t cifs : File system type to be mount -o : are options passed to mount command, in this example I had passed two options. First argument is password (vivek) and second argument is password to connect remote windows box //ntserver/download : Windows 2000/NT share name /mnt/ntserver Linux mount point (to access share after mounting) Just wanted to share the info with all FEDORA Lovers like me.... Is there some way to add this to any documentation or guide...I am slight newbie.. Thanks, Sibir On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Sibir Chakraborty wrote: > Hi all, > > Thanks for getting the info in. Can't wait to see F11 rocking ! I am > already trying that out in 3 of my machines. Trying on different combination > on Vista to Fedora migration...Will keep posted... > > Thanks, > Sibir > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Juan M. Rodriguez wrote: > >> >> >> On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:42 PM, Sibir Chakraborty < >> jkstriangle at gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Hi all, >>> >>> Ragarding access to Thunderbird profile, kindly note that: On Windows >>> Vista/XP/2000, the path is usually >>> %AppData%\Thunderbird\Profiles\xxxxxxxx.default\, where xxxxxxxx is a random >>> string of 8 characters. >>> >>> Also, C:\users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming\Thunderbird\Profiles\ is the >>> access path that I found in Vista. This is required to be updated in the >>> docs mentioned below. >>> >>> In am a newbie to the forum...and you request and appreciate if someone >>> guides me through. >>> >>> >>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Secondly I would also like to add one more guidance tip on the section at >>> : *Application Data Folder* >>> If you are unable to fing AppData, please do the following: >>> >>> Start > Run > enter %AppData% and press Enter. You will be taken to the >>> "real" folder, which is C:\users\[User Name]\AppData\Roaming on Windows >>> Vista. >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Also, it would be nice to know that, users can move around the Profile to >>> some location or sda where the sda is not full(enough HD space). It is also >>> possible to backup on a Remote Mounted location. >>> >>> To do this: >>> >>> Shut down Thunderbird completely >>> >>> 1. Go to: the path is ~/.thunderbird/ >>> 2. In profiles.ini, locate the entry for the profile you've just moved. >>> Change the Path= line to the new location >>> 3. Change IsRelative=1 to IsRelative=0 and lastly. >>> 4. Save profiles.ini and restart Thunderbird. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Sibir >>> >>> >>> ********************************************************************************************************************** >>> >>> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:38 AM, Kirk wrote: >>> >>>> I've written the steps needed to migrate Thunderbird Profile Data from >>>> Windows XP. I don't have access to Vista. Could someone read over this >>>> section for me that's more familiar with Vista and let me know if >>>> different steps are required? >>>> >>>> >>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User_Guide_-_Communications#Moving_Your_Thunderbird_Profile_Data_from_Windows_to_Fedora >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> -Kirk >>>> >>>> -- >>>> fedora-docs-list mailing list >>>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >>>> To unsubscribe: >>>> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >>>> >>> >>> Hey Sibir, >> >> Thanks for your corrections, as I said, I'm no Vista user so I couldn't >> check if anything else had changed. >> >> I'm updating the Wiki page to make up for my mistake. >> >> Thanks! >> >> -Nushio >> >> -- >> Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno >> Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos >> Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 14:11:21 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 09:11:21 -0500 Subject: Install Guide now in Publican In-Reply-To: <49A71F36.1050906@redhat.com> References: <49A4C3F0.80707@redhat.com> <20090225135152.GA19287@localhost.localdomain> <49A5E5E3.3020207@redhat.com> <20090226154530.GB7391@localhost.localdomain> <49A71F36.1050906@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090227141121.GG23861@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Feb 27, 2009 at 09:01:10AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> So would I be correct in thinking that's not what Publican does, and >> that entities are only supposed to be used in Publican docs to >> represent non-translatables like a year or a company name? >> > Yes, that's correct. Publican is built on the KDE tool xml2pot, not the > GNOME tool xml2po, and xml2pot doesn't have the "-e" option that xml2po > does. > > Publican uses xml2pot because it is /significantly/ faster than xml2po, > which is important when handling the huge documents that we work with in > Red Hat Engineering Content Services. To put the difference in > perspective: while Publican was in early development, conversions of the > Red Hat Enterprise Linux Deployment Guide (a document of around 300,000 > words) were done with both tools. Xml2pot finished the entire run in all > 23 languages around the same time that xml2po finished the /first/ > language! Having sat through our toolchain's build process innumerable times, I definitely see your point. Not sure why the xml2po tool hasn't been fully ported to C at this point, but meh. > That said, there are such obvious advantages to using entities such as > &DISTRO; so this is something that will no doubt be revisited if and when > xml2pot ever gets an option equivalent to "-e". But for now, we just can't > do it. *nod* -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cmpahar at gmail.com Fri Feb 27 16:32:31 2009 From: cmpahar at gmail.com (Christos Bacharakis) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 18:32:31 +0200 Subject: Linux Start Pack Review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: 2009/2/26 Kirk > I read over the Linux Start Pack at > http://www.tuxradar.com/linuxstarterpack . > This magazine is published by Linux Format. > > I liked it because its very user-friendly, therefore, a good sales tool > for people thinking about switching from Windows to Linux. The > majority of the article is a comprehensive User Guide. The magazine > came with a Live CD for Ubuntu so folks could follow along with the user > guide and really get a feel for Linux and the distro. The article is 130 > pages with about 85% - 90% being the user guide. > > We should consider doing something like this when we can. We > could follow a similar format and put it out in magazine form, if we > have the resources, put it on the web, or both. What is a user guide? Maybe some docs putted and linked together in a form which is more friendly with screenshots and tips? I think there is a huge power at Docs and L10n project and the material is really good. So, for start we can try to put together all the stuff and reconfigure it (screenshots, tips) in a more "user friendly" way. If we have good written, user friendly docs in many languages we don't have to do something from scratch. > It would be large project but worthwhile for getting > the word out about Fedora. Small touches, small entries and the guide will be ready on a sec! :) > Browse through it if you get a chance and see what you think. > > -Kirk > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- Christos Bacharakis cmpahar at fedoraproject.org http://cmpahar.wordpress.com GPG Key: CCFA0AEB -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adam at physco.com Fri Feb 27 19:58:47 2009 From: adam at physco.com (Adam D. Ligas) Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 14:58:47 -0500 Subject: Steps for Thunderbird migration from Windows Vista to Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1235764727.3540.1.camel@Q> On Fri, 2009-02-27 at 10:52 +0530, Sibir Chakraborty wrote: > Hi Kirk/all, > > In any of the guides, I am not finding a very useful info. I use all > the time and I am pretty sure it helps a lot in all Networking > companies using large shared drives on Windows to Fedora... > > The steps are actually very simple: > > Map windows drives on Fedora linux: > > There are several ways though Another way, if you are running Gnome, is to do it in the GUI. Places -> Connect to Server -> Windows Share (in the drop down) That's a quick way to pop open a Windows share and access some files. - Adam From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sat Feb 28 17:33:36 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 23:03:36 +0530 Subject: Linux Start Pack Review Message-ID: <78323d480902280933o50f28131o699200c1a850617@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Christos Bacharakis wrote: >> I read over the Linux Start Pack at >> http://www.tuxradar.com/linuxstarterpack . >> This magazine is published by Linux Format. >> > What is a user guide? Maybe some docs putted and linked together in a form > which is more friendly with screenshots and tips? > I think there is a huge power at Docs and L10n project and the material is > really good. So, for start we can try to put together all the stuff and > reconfigure it (screenshots, tips) in a more "user friendly" way. > If we have good written, user friendly docs in many languages we don't have > to do something from scratch. There is a big difference between a user guide for people new to Linux and PCs, documentation for others and a starter pack for migrating users from other OSs. As it is the user guide has plenty of references to 'things in M$Windows'. I think it will be a better idea to transfer those to a starter pack. The user guide can then be used by people new to Linux and PCs ...or should we split the latter function as well? >> It would be large project but worthwhile for getting >> the word out about Fedora. > > > Small touches, small entries and the guide will be ready on a sec! :) Many parts require modification. It is biased towards Gnome. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani Member, Cal. Math. Soc -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkmqx/gACgkQunMISzvdfU6QigCfXHXT5KLW3O2F80EDNyOwk4pw 0cYAmwVqjluOBdY23h7sQjC9SvHFwM40 =G+iY -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From domingobecker at gmail.com Wed Feb 11 01:01:10 2009 From: domingobecker at gmail.com (Domingo Becker) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 01:01:10 -0000 Subject: install-guide in Spanish In-Reply-To: <4818cd80902101643t29e49f44ofc939c87898eb603@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80902041459n64978276r2c11b309945d6d01@mail.gmail.com> <4990D9E6.60203@redhat.com> <20090210101043.GP4142@calliope.phig.org> <20090210125459.GB1785@localhost.localdomain> <4818cd80902101643t29e49f44ofc939c87898eb603@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4818cd80902101700m4ce58728q3495076a3feac0d9@mail.gmail.com> 2009/2/10 Domingo Becker : > 2009/2/10 Paul W. Frields : >> On another note though, it looks to me like there are minor changes to >> be made to the POT and the "es" translation is not 100% done: >> >> $ make postat-es >> es: 1037/83/23/ >> > > Thank you, Paul. > Then, there are 3 possible reasons for that: > 1. DL [1] is not showing the right statistics > 2. Transifex is not commiting the po files correctly to the upstream VCS. > 3. DL/Tx is not getting the current install-guide.master.pot file from > upstream VCS. > > [1] http://translate.fedoraproject.org/module/docs-install-guide > > I thought I was up to date, as shown in [1]. > Please, push the differences to DL so I may complete the translation. > > kind regards > > Domingo Becker (es) > Sorry for replying myself. It seems the issue will be solved with Transifex 0.5 next month, according to message [1] [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2009-February/msg00033.html kind regards Domingo Becker (es)