Docs Meeting 2009-07-16 IRC log

[Eric Christensen]

00:02:22 <Sparks> #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
00:02:30 <Sparks> Roll Call!
00:02:30 * Sparks is here
00:02:38 * danielsmw is present
00:02:50 * Tsagadai is present
00:02:53 * ianweller 
00:02:54 * joat is too
00:03:07 * jjmcd is here as well
00:03:38 * ianweller is *still* here
00:04:22 * rudi is here
00:05:42 <Sparks> Good turn out...  still waiting for stickster and quaid
00:05:51 <jjmcd> and poelcat
00:06:00 <Sparks> and ke4qqq
00:06:17 * stickster is here for a few minutes
00:06:32 <stickster> Sparks: Did poelcat know about the schedule item?
00:06:52 <Sparks> I thought
00:07:01 <stickster> IOW, did someone let him know?
00:07:29 <Sparks> specifically about this meeting?  I didn't.
00:07:46 <stickster> I don't know how he was supposed to know to be here then
00:07:47 <Sparks> He's not on IRC ATM
00:08:12 <stickster> He's logged in, just not around here
00:08:21 <Sparks> Wasn't he here last week when we pushed the calendar to this week?
00:08:29 <stickster> Not sure, I wasn't either :-D
00:08:30 * ke4qqq is here
00:08:31 <stickster> But anyhow
00:08:39 <stickster> Let's move on and see if he comes in later
00:08:45 * quaid pops in
00:08:48 <stickster> I pinged him
00:08:57 * Sparks was on the wrong IRC server
00:09:17 * stickster waves to quaid
00:09:23 <Sparks> Okay, let's get going!
00:09:27 <Sparks> #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq
00:09:32 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Where are you?
00:09:37 <ke4qqq> right here
00:09:46 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Where are we on zikula?
00:10:15 <ke4qqq> getting very close WRT packaging - -Content is the big outstanding one I think
00:10:26 <ke4qqq> and we need mediashare
00:10:34 <ke4qqq> I'll try and get mediashare done by tonight
00:10:42 <ke4qqq> and get everything that's up for review done
00:10:47 <ke4qqq> as well
00:11:06 * Sparks didn't add his poll packages to the Zikula ticket as they weren't required.
00:11:09 <ke4qqq> and we still have the fedora specific stuff which I am trying to get uploaded now
00:11:34 <stickster> ke4qqq: If there's anything lacking by tomorrow, let me know -- I can spend some time on this Friday if needed.
00:11:47 * stickster blocked out time with ianweller to make sure packages are reviewed and pushed
00:11:53 <ke4qqq> outstanding!
00:13:14 <Sparks> Cool
00:13:38 <Sparks> Are all the "Need to Package" tickets assigned and being handled?
00:13:41 <stickster> News is done, by the way, awaiting review
00:13:54 <stickster> .bug 512027
00:13:56 <Sparks> stickster++
00:13:56 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=512027 medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: zikula-module-News - Manages news articles on your Zikula site
00:13:57 <buggbot> Bug 512027: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: zikula-module-News - Manages news articles on your Zikula site
00:13:57 <ke4qqq> Sparks: the mediashare I don't know if it is done
00:14:16 <stickster> Hmm, those bots need to figure out who's on first.
00:14:19 <Sparks> I seem to remember that one had some problems?
00:14:46 <stickster> Sparks: We really need to set up dedicated time to go through these one by one.
00:14:48 <ke4qqq> Sparks: it needed several dependencies which I think stickster took care of most of, and I took care of the other one
00:15:02 <stickster> i.e. bug review for packages for those that aren't closed
00:15:11 <stickster> Maybe ianweller and I can make that a focus for Friday.
00:15:20 <ianweller> Friday Focus(tm)
00:15:32 * stickster prefers a methodical approach so we don't wonder, "Didn't we... did you...?" later..
00:15:59 <Sparks> stickster: I agree.  Put me down for Friday.  I'll see what my calendar looks like tomorrow
00:16:04 <ke4qqq> +1 the scope is just a bit large at the moment and I don't think any of us have spent the time looking at all ~20 tickts/packages.
00:16:11 <ianweller> stickster: who are you again?
00:16:11 <ianweller> ;)
00:16:26 <stickster> The guy who capitalizes stuff
00:16:32 <ianweller> everything but your nick
00:16:47 <ianweller> moving on!
00:16:49 <ianweller> :)
00:17:12 <Sparks> Okay... anything else on the Zikula stuff?
00:17:22 <stickster> So ACTION - ianweller, stickster, Sparks(?), ke4qqq(?) to look at status with a magnifying glass on Friday
00:17:54 <Sparks> #ACTION ianweller stickster Sparks ke4qqq to look at status on Zikula on Friday to make sure everything is getting done.
00:18:24 * ianweller isn't sure if it takes CAPITALIZED commands
00:18:31 <Sparks> #action ianweller stickster Sparks ke4qqq to look at status on Zikula on Friday to make sure everything is getting done.
00:18:39 <Sparks> #lights #camera
00:18:40 <stickster> We'll soon find out ;-)
00:19:00 <jjmcd> C programmers - sheesh
00:19:06 <Sparks> Okay...  Moving on...
00:19:29 <Sparks> #topic Status on CC license discussion.  <--quaid
00:19:34 <Sparks> #link http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/
00:19:54 <Sparks> quaid: What do you have for us tonight?
00:20:56 * Sparks thought quaid was here
00:21:26 * ianweller thought so too
00:21:26 * ke4qqq is stepping away for a moment
00:21:35 <stickster> I think it works when you say: quaid quaid quaid quaid quaid
00:21:36 <stickster> Like that.
00:21:41 <Sparks> Oh
00:21:49 <Sparks> quaid quaid quaid quaid quaid
00:22:01 <ianweller> quack quack quack quack quack
00:22:18 <stickster> So Sparks, what was the holdover from the last meeting on this topic?
00:22:41 <Sparks> the last meeting was week 1...  we were waiting for the sky to fall
00:22:45 <Sparks> but it didn't
00:23:10 <stickster> Right, and we set a 2 week call for input, right?
00:23:14 <Sparks> yes
00:23:17 * stickster overuses "right," right?
00:23:21 <Sparks> right
00:23:23 <Sparks> correct
00:23:24 <stickster> Heh
00:23:34 <stickster> I haven't personally seen any odd input.
00:23:41 <stickster> No even input, either.
00:23:46 <Sparks> I haven't personally seen any input
00:24:01 <stickster> If it were my call, I would say that the time for input is over and the time for action is now.
00:24:03 <Sparks> Does anyone have any input?
00:24:16 * danielsmw doesn't.
00:24:37 <Sparks> MOTION: I say we make everything written CC-BY-SA v3.
00:24:39 <stickster> I don't know what's happening internally with RH Content Services though, quaid was mediating that
00:24:43 <ianweller> second
00:24:47 <Sparks> +1
00:24:53 <ianweller> +1
00:24:57 <joat> +1
00:24:59 <danielsmw> +1
00:25:46 <Tsagadai> +1 for new stuff
00:26:22 * stickster tries to remember how zodbot is commanded here... "resolved?"
00:26:30 <Sparks> #agreed All documenation will be changed to a CC-BY-SA v3 license.
00:26:35 <stickster> yeah, that's the ticket.
00:26:51 * Sparks waits for all the confetti and ticker tape to stop falling
00:27:01 * danielsmw observers that the confetti stopped.
00:27:09 * danielsmw s/observers/observed/
00:27:21 <Sparks> Okay... moving on
00:27:29 <Sparks> ke4qqq:  You back?
00:28:31 <Sparks> #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets
00:28:42 <Sparks> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&classification=Fedora&product=Fedora%20Documentation&bug_status=NEW
00:29:03 <quaid> *sigh*
00:29:08 <quaid> you guys never need me when I'm on this screen
00:29:10 <Sparks> There are 23 tickets that haven't been assigned.  Please go through them and see what you can work on.
00:29:25 <Sparks> quaid: We called and quacked but you didn't come
00:29:39 <quaid> yeah, I see that _now_
00:29:48 <Sparks> jjmcd: There are a few tickets in there for the RNs
00:30:24 <jjmcd> Yep, I thought I grabbed most of them.  Having some git issues a week or so ago, expect to come up for air Friday (finally)
00:30:43 <Sparks> I'm going to start assigning them on Friday so if you want something cool better roger up for it now!  :)
00:30:54 * stickster is going to close his if he doesn't get input from f13 or jeremy
00:30:54 <jjmcd> I thought it would be tomorrow but I gotta go up to gladwin for a funeral
00:31:16 <jjmcd> yeah, most of the rn ones are straightforward
00:31:17 <stickster> .bug 474368 by the way
00:31:19 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=474368 medium, low, ---, stickster, NEW, Live CDs README says wrong minimal memory requirement
00:31:38 <stickster> Ha, zodbot, you lose
00:32:53 <Sparks> So there are 23 NEW tickets and 58 tickets in process.  Let's see if we can clean that up some before next week.
00:33:28 <Sparks> Anyone have anything else?
00:33:36 <Sparks> ke4qqq: You back?
00:33:39 <stickster> Sorry, miskey here
00:34:01 * stickster has to run away now that he fixed what he done broke
00:34:08 <Sparks> bah
00:34:17 <Sparks> #topic F12 Calendar <-- poelcat
00:34:27 <Sparks> Does anyone have any input on the F12 calendar?
00:34:56 <ianweller> do you have a link?
00:35:12 * Sparks thinks someone hasn't been paying attention
00:35:29 <ianweller> i have my hands in about 500 subprojects, what do you expect :)
00:35:40 <Sparks> ianweller: for you to know where the F12 calendar is.
00:35:48 <Sparks> I actually don't have that link handy right this second.
00:35:54 <Sparks> I've been using the iCal.
00:36:00 <ianweller> :-o
00:36:04 <Sparks> I'll push it on the list later.
00:36:21 <Sparks> anyone else?
00:36:28 <rudi> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-trans-tasks.html
00:36:36 <Sparks> rudi++
00:37:31 * ianweller has nothing
00:38:11 <Sparks> #topic Guide needs?
00:38:19 <Sparks> User Guide
00:38:19 <Sparks> #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-July/msg00034.html
00:38:22 <Sparks> #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-July/msg00039.html
00:38:30 <Sparks> danielsmw: What do you have for the User Guide?
00:38:39 <danielsmw> Well, one thing I have
00:38:46 <danielsmw> I take that back
00:38:50 <danielsmw> I have a lot more than one thiing.
00:39:09 <danielsmw> Um... so rudi's response on the list if you saw it was very good (it's the latter link)
00:39:21 <danielsmw> And a lot of whats in that document is where I want to go with the UG.
00:39:45 <danielsmw> So the plan in my head is to completely start from scratch, and pull in the old content that we want to use on a case-by-case basis
00:39:53 <ianweller> (+1)
00:40:05 <danielsmw> so we aren't abandoning the old content, but we're bringing it in to a new format so to speak.
00:40:08 <Sparks> Wow, now that's a makeover
00:40:15 <danielsmw> Yeah, it is.
00:40:18 <danielsmw> But I think it really needs it.
00:40:26 <rudi> danielsmw -- that's definitely the easiest way to do it
00:40:44 <danielsmw> Since I took the thing over for F8
00:40:55 <danielsmw> it's really just been changed slightly every release
00:41:06 <danielsmw> and it's become somewhat less easy to manage as it is.
00:41:14 <danielsmw> It's needs a cleanup makeover.
00:41:16 <danielsmw> So that's the plan.
00:41:19 <danielsmw> Also, as a side note,
00:41:33 <Sparks> danielsmw: Do you have the help/resources you need to make it happen?
00:41:50 * rudi is happy to help out with the Publican XML skeleton
00:41:59 <danielsmw> Sparks: not formally
00:42:05 <Sparks> danielsmw: cool
00:42:22 <danielsmw> But anyway, I was thinking... I'm not sure that User Guide is an appropriate name.
00:42:30 <danielsmw> If we go this new route per rudi's suggestions and my thoughts.
00:42:39 <ianweller> Do Stuff Guide
00:42:41 <danielsmw> Because it would be more like a mixture of an FAQ and a cookbook
00:42:54 <danielsmw> Like a Fedora Desktop Cookbook
00:42:55 <danielsmw> or something
00:42:59 <Sparks> cool
00:42:59 <ianweller> ooh i like that.
00:43:04 <ianweller> very much like that.
00:43:08 <danielsmw> thanks ianweller :)
00:43:19 <danielsmw> One other poll question
00:43:27 <danielsmw> The audience for this document....
00:43:57 <danielsmw> I was thinking about this: is it for the previously computerless new user? or is it for someone who probably new what they were doing in windows and wants to get involved in linux now?
00:44:10 <ianweller> both.
00:44:17 <danielsmw> ianweller: that's what i was afraid of
00:44:19 <rudi> I agree, both
00:44:24 <ianweller> danielsmw: i know it's scary
00:44:34 <danielsmw> Okay, that's still fine.
00:44:44 <rudi> Buuut, don't overestimate the degree to which "they knew what they were doing in Windows"
00:44:54 <danielsmw> lol
00:45:05 <danielsmw> I'm not sure how much one can know what they're doing in windows,
00:45:07 <danielsmw> but i get what you mean.
00:45:07 <rudi> I didn't mean that in an entirely cynical way
00:45:21 <danielsmw> Right
00:45:22 <danielsmw> But I mean
00:45:38 <danielsmw> I don't need to explain mouse usage or how to insert a CD.
00:45:39 <rudi> More that 90% of people spend 90% of their time at their home/small business computers doing the same small number of tasks
00:45:56 <rudi> There's an element of self-selection here...
00:45:56 <Sparks> packaging?
00:46:26 <danielsmw> Oh, and as for contributing upstream
00:46:31 <rudi> I think those things are at an even more basic level than we can really cater to
00:46:32 <danielsmw> per rudi's email's suggestion
00:46:39 <danielsmw> I think that will be more doable in the new format as well.
00:46:44 <danielsmw> As would be pulling from downstream.
00:46:50 <danielsmw> So that could help a lot with the rewriting process.
00:47:26 * rudi emphasises that wherever we can reuse existing text, we need to make an effort to do so, to ease the load on l10n
00:47:36 <danielsmw> rudi: understood
00:47:47 <danielsmw> And with that, the brevity drought I tend to bring on is at an end.
00:48:46 <Sparks> Cool
00:49:04 <Sparks> Anyone have anything for the User Guide/Fedora Desktop Cookbook?
00:49:27 * rudi really dislikes the "Cookbook" title, but will take it to the mailing list
00:50:06 <Sparks> noted
00:50:15 <Sparks> Okay...  I have a request for the Security Guide
00:50:50 <Sparks> So I finally got it approved and submitted the SRPM but it fails to build in koji.
00:51:04 <Sparks> #link http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/getfile?taskID=1474242&name=build.log
00:51:21 <Sparks> Being that this should affect all Publican patches I'm trying to get it figured out.
00:51:25 <Sparks> I just don't understand this one.
00:52:08 <Sparks> So if anyone has any ideas please get with me after the meeting
00:52:18 <Sparks> Anyone have anything else for existing guides?
00:52:59 <Sparks> #topic New Guides
00:53:02 <Sparks> Tsagadai: Go
00:53:31 <Tsagadai> yes
00:54:05 <Tsagadai> I have been writing the Virtualization Guide for some time
00:54:21 <Tsagadai> It's time to send the good stuff upstream
00:55:03 <Sparks> Tsagadai: what format?  DocBook?
00:55:09 <Tsagadai> Docbook
00:55:14 <Tsagadai> about 300 pages :)
00:55:20 <rudi> (and already Publicanized)
00:55:30 <Sparks> +1000
00:56:15 <ianweller> +9000
00:56:40 <Sparks> Tsagadai: We can set you up on docs.fp.o if you like
00:56:55 <Tsagadai> that would be great
00:57:41 <Sparks> Tsagadai: Great.  We'll get you setup tonight
00:57:41 <rudi> Tsagadai -- you should also open an infra ticket to get the code hosted
00:58:05 <Tsagadai> link please?
00:58:30 <rudi> Tsagadai -- I'll walk you through it after the meeting :)
00:58:32 <Tsagadai> to host on fh.o?
00:58:39 * danielsmw has to leave a bit early; peace.
00:58:51 <rudi> Yeah, so you can get Transifex hooked into it as well
00:58:58 <Tsagadai> ah
00:59:25 * ianweller notes we have 35 seconds left in the hour
00:59:26 <Tsagadai> So the Fedora Virtualization Guide is approved for F12?
00:59:38 <Sparks> Tsagadai: Go ahead and build the html, html-single, and PDF and we'll get all that uploaded tonight to docs.fp.o.
00:59:47 <Sparks> Tsagadai: WORKSFORME
00:59:49 <Sparks> :)
01:00:00 <Sparks> Anyone have anything for the Virtualization Guide?
01:00:57 <Sparks> Tsagadai: Thank you for bringing this to us tonight.
01:01:04 <Sparks> Any other new guides?
01:01:07 * rudi has been sketching out the Installation Quick Start Guide, but the skeleton's not quite ready yet.
01:01:27 <Sparks> rudi: Have you seen the screenshots on the wiki?
01:01:31 <rudi> Yes
01:01:52 <Sparks> #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Installing_Fedora_11_Leonidas
01:01:57 <Sparks> ^^^ for those that haven't
01:02:35 <Sparks> rudi: Anything else on that?
01:02:44 <rudi> Nothing at this stage
01:02:51 <Sparks> ok
01:03:02 <rudi> I hoped to have something ready for today, but don't :)
01:03:04 <Sparks> Tsagadai: Almost forgot... Can you add your guide to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides, please?
01:03:13 <Tsagadai> sure
01:03:22 <Sparks> Okay...
01:03:34 <Sparks> #topic All other business
01:03:42 <Sparks> Anyone have anything they want to discuss?
01:05:30 * jjmcd moves to adjourn
01:05:37 <Sparks> nAnyone?
01:05:48 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming!
01:05:50 <Sparks> #endmeeting

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