From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 13:14:53 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 09:14:53 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Announcement FINAL In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0905291622i806b76bgeecc3696fc89104@mail.gmail.com> References: <95f1114b0905291622i806b76bgeecc3696fc89104@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090601131453.GJ9001@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 09:22:39AM +1000, Murray McAllister wrote: > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Eric Christensen > wrote: > > Thanks to Jack and Paul for stepping up and really getting the release > > announcement[1] built. ?We, at Docs, have reviewed the final draft and > > think we are in consensus that it is complete. ?Please look over it > > and see if anything jumps out at you. ?If not, this is what we'd like > > to go with. > > > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 > > First sentence spells today as "to-day", but maybe that is intended? That's intended, in the spirit of usage in English over a century ago. > Also, there are spaces after "..." and the capital letter following. I removed the ellipses since they really didn't indicate anything in particular. I suppose I could go read up and find out how they were used idiomatically way back when, but it didn't seem vital. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Jun 1 16:00:50 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:00:50 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source Message-ID: I'd like to hear some thoughts on a project to document where all Fedora's source is located and how someone could obtain it. The thought is that while we make all of our source freely available to anyone I don't think we are doing a good job of letting people know where they can find it. While we might be meeting the letter of the rules I think we can do better. This would include ALL source: software, docs, art, etc. Thoughts? Eric From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 16:44:34 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:44:34 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090601164434.GY9001@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 12:00:50PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > I'd like to hear some thoughts on a project to document where all > Fedora's source is located and how someone could obtain it. The > thought is that while we make all of our source freely available to > anyone I don't think we are doing a good job of letting people know > where they can find it. While we might be meeting the letter of the > rules I think we can do better. > > This would include ALL source: software, docs, art, etc. > > Thoughts? There is information on this scattered widely around the wiki but there's no doubt it's hard to find if you're approaching the question from the standpoint of "How do I get source?" without knowing what source, or why. And by saying that, I am absolutely *not* saying that's a bad way to ask the question! In fact, I think the *idea* of getting the source is just so powerful that we should make it drop-dead simple even for people who have no idea exactly why they want it. That idea, when you combine it with the collaborative power of the community, is what powers this entire project and indeed all of FOSS. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 1 16:47:06 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:47:06 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > I'd like to hear some thoughts on a project to document where all > Fedora's source is located and how someone could obtain it. ?The > thought is that while we make all of our source freely available to > anyone I don't think we are doing a good job of letting people know > where they can find it. ?While we might be meeting the letter of the > rules I think we can do better. > > This would include ALL source: software, docs, art, etc. > > Thoughts? > > Eric > My gut level reaction for Documents is that there should be a section in the document that details where/how to get the source. Perhaps the same sections that talks about filing bugs against it. From mikkel at infinity-ltd.com Mon Jun 1 16:53:23 2009 From: mikkel at infinity-ltd.com (Mikkel L. Ellertson) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 11:53:23 -0500 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> Eric Christensen wrote: > I'd like to hear some thoughts on a project to document where all > Fedora's source is located and how someone could obtain it. The > thought is that while we make all of our source freely available to > anyone I don't think we are doing a good job of letting people know > where they can find it. While we might be meeting the letter of the > rules I think we can do better. > > This would include ALL source: software, docs, art, etc. > > Thoughts? > > Eric > I guess I don't see the problem - the source RPMs are normally available from the same mirrors as the binary RPMs. It is just a matter of enabling the source repo (It is in the config, just disabled.) and selecting the source RPM you want. This way, you get the "virgin source" plus the patches that Fedora is using. The .spec file normally has a pointer to the upstream web site as well, just in case it isn't in the source package. It has been a long time, but I sort of remember coming across documentation covering this. (It may have been RedHat documentation from before Fedora...) Mike -- I am not a number, I am an individual with a unique number. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 16:59:20 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 12:59:20 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Announcement FINAL In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090601165920.GZ9001@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 01:13:52PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > Thanks to Jack and Paul for stepping up and really getting the release > announcement[1] built. We, at Docs, have reviewed the final draft and > think we are in consensus that it is complete. Please look over it > and see if anything jumps out at you. If not, this is what we'd like > to go with. > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 As we've discussed previously elsewhere, translators can create their own localized announcements using our talking points: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Talking_Points They do not need to translate the top part of the announcement (the funny safari story) at all if desired. Paul From philip at roshambo.org Mon Jun 1 17:18:54 2009 From: philip at roshambo.org (Philip Olson) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 10:18:54 -0700 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: <20090601164434.GY9001@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090601164434.GY9001@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <72232BE3-CDC3-4954-B90F-606B41435EA8@roshambo.org> On Jun 1, 2009, at 9:44 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 12:00:50PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> I'd like to hear some thoughts on a project to document where all >> Fedora's source is located and how someone could obtain it. The >> thought is that while we make all of our source freely available to >> anyone I don't think we are doing a good job of letting people know >> where they can find it. While we might be meeting the letter of the >> rules I think we can do better. >> >> This would include ALL source: software, docs, art, etc. >> >> Thoughts? > > There is information on this scattered widely around the wiki but > there's no doubt it's hard to find if you're approaching the question > from the standpoint of "How do I get source?" without knowing what > source, or why. > > And by saying that, I am absolutely *not* saying that's a bad way to > ask the question! In fact, I think the *idea* of getting the source > is just so powerful that we should make it drop-dead simple even for > people who have no idea exactly why they want it. That idea, when you > combine it with the collaborative power of the community, is what > powers this entire project and indeed all of FOSS. A month or so ago I joined and simply wanted to download and mess around with some documentation sources to see what would happen. I remember a total inability to find something to download, and jumped around from CVS <-> SVN <-> GIT <-> WIKI so felt confused and lost. I understand a restructuring is taking place but fwiw I gave up and moved on to other shiny objects (not Fedora) because of this. However, I'm back and am wanting to help newcomers like me get involved. In summary: I think it's a good idea :) Regards, Philip From bcotton+fedora at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 17:48:53 2009 From: bcotton+fedora at gmail.com (Ben Cotton) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:48:53 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <87f35b5e0906011048v35af1e0av8b5a3f55c8d4036e@mail.gmail.com> I think this is a great idea. To do it well, though, we should also include some information about why someone might be interested in accessing the source (not a long-winded manifesto, but maybe a paragraph or two of explanation and some real-life examples for a range of expertise). -- Ben Cotton From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Jun 1 17:50:16 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 13:50:16 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> References: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:53, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > I guess I don't see the problem - the source RPMs are normally > available from the same mirrors as the binary RPMs. It is just a > matter of enabling the source repo (It is in the config, just > disabled.) and selecting the source RPM you want. This way, you get > the "virgin source" plus the patches that Fedora is using. The .spec > file normally has a pointer to the upstream web site as well, just > in case it isn't in the source package. And that is one way of obtaining a version of the source. But how did you know you could get the source from the repos? Is that were ALL the source files? > > It has been a long time, but I sort of remember coming across > documentation covering this. (It may have been RedHat documentation > from before Fedora...) > > Mike Eric From wb8rcr at arrl.net Mon Jun 1 18:09:23 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 14:09:23 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source References: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> Message-ID: <35DE6DD8E952470FBFC8740BC09FACA1@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Monday, June 01, 2009 1:50 PM Subject: Re: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:53, Mikkel L. Ellertson > wrote: >> I guess I don't see the problem - the source RPMs are normally >> available from the same mirrors as the binary RPMs. It is just a >> matter of enabling the source repo (It is in the config, just >> disabled.) and selecting the source RPM you want. This way, you get >> the "virgin source" plus the patches that Fedora is using. The .spec >> file normally has a pointer to the upstream web site as well, just >> in case it isn't in the source package. > > And that is one way of obtaining a version of the source. But how did > you know you could get the source from the repos? Is that were ALL > the source files? While the repo is an obvious answer, it is really only interesting to Fedorans. Sources in the repos are wrapped up in these mysterious "rpm" files. Yeah, if you have any Linux you can use file-roller, but what if you are coming from Windows? Those things might as well be encrypted. Of course, lots of stuff is in git, and you can look freely with just a web browser. But is everything? Other stuff is in CVS. How do you know? --McD >> It has been a long time, but I sort of remember coming across >> documentation covering this. (It may have been RedHat documentation >> from before Fedora...) >> >> Mike > > Eric > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Jun 1 20:46:04 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 16:46:04 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1243889164.4349.8.camel@thunder> On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 12:00 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > I'd like to hear some thoughts on a project to document where all > Fedora's source is located and how someone could obtain it. The > thought is that while we make all of our source freely available to > anyone I don't think we are doing a good job of letting people know > where they can find it. While we might be meeting the letter of the > rules I think we can do better. > > This would include ALL source: software, docs, art, etc. > > Thoughts? > > Eric I've started a wiki[1] page where we can start populating locations for the source code. Start populating the page with what you know and let's see what we can come up with. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Where%27s_the_source -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks at fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mikkel at infinity-ltd.com Mon Jun 1 22:11:24 2009 From: mikkel at infinity-ltd.com (Mikkel L. Ellertson) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:11:24 -0500 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: References: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> Message-ID: <4A24520C.9020801@infinity-ltd.com> Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:53, Mikkel L. Ellertson > wrote: >> I guess I don't see the problem - the source RPMs are normally >> available from the same mirrors as the binary RPMs. It is just a >> matter of enabling the source repo (It is in the config, just >> disabled.) and selecting the source RPM you want. This way, you get >> the "virgin source" plus the patches that Fedora is using. The .spec >> file normally has a pointer to the upstream web site as well, just >> in case it isn't in the source package. > > And that is one way of obtaining a version of the source. But how did > you know you could get the source from the repos? Is that were ALL > the source files? > I don't really remember where the information came from any more. I do know that a full mirror will have a SRPMS directory with the source RPMs in it. In order to have a binary RPM, you first need a source RPM. There may be some exceptions in some of the extra repo's, but all the "official" Fedora RPMs need to have a source RPM that they were built from. It does get a bit complicated in that one source RPM may generate more then one binary RPM. Also, some binary RPMs are not really binaries, but things like header files needed for building other programs. By the specifications, the source RPM has to contain the source code and packages to build the RPM. It can, and usually will, have dependencies on other packages. These are normally the same dependencies needed to build the package yourself from a tar file. One other thing - if you look at the headers of a binary RPM, you will usually find the URL of the upstream home site of the package. (The headers have all kinds of interesting information.) I believe most of this is covered in teh RPM documentation... Mike -- The best book on programming for the layman is "alice in wonderland"; but that's because it's the best book on anything for the layman. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Jun 1 22:26:35 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:26:35 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: <4A24520C.9020801@infinity-ltd.com> References: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> <4A24520C.9020801@infinity-ltd.com> Message-ID: <1243895195.4349.16.camel@thunder> On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 17:11 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > Eric Christensen wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 12:53, Mikkel L. Ellertson > > wrote: > >> I guess I don't see the problem - the source RPMs are normally > >> available from the same mirrors as the binary RPMs. It is just a > >> matter of enabling the source repo (It is in the config, just > >> disabled.) and selecting the source RPM you want. This way, you get > >> the "virgin source" plus the patches that Fedora is using. The .spec > >> file normally has a pointer to the upstream web site as well, just > >> in case it isn't in the source package. > > > > And that is one way of obtaining a version of the source. But how did > > you know you could get the source from the repos? Is that were ALL > > the source files? > > > I don't really remember where the information came from any more. I > do know that a full mirror will have a SRPMS directory with the > source RPMs in it. > > In order to have a binary RPM, you first need a source RPM. There > may be some exceptions in some of the extra repo's, but all the > "official" Fedora RPMs need to have a source RPM that they were > built from. It does get a bit complicated in that one source RPM may > generate more then one binary RPM. Also, some binary RPMs are not > really binaries, but things like header files needed for building > other programs. > > By the specifications, the source RPM has to contain the source code > and packages to build the RPM. It can, and usually will, have > dependencies on other packages. These are normally the same > dependencies needed to build the package yourself from a tar file. > > One other thing - if you look at the headers of a binary RPM, you > will usually find the URL of the upstream home site of the package. > (The headers have all kinds of interesting information.) > > I believe most of this is covered in teh RPM documentation... > > Mike But as someone pointed out, that source RPM isn't in an exceptionally open format. AND I know that everything Fedora produces isn't in RPM format. Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From mikkel at infinity-ltd.com Mon Jun 1 22:32:05 2009 From: mikkel at infinity-ltd.com (Mikkel L. Ellertson) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 17:32:05 -0500 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: <35DE6DD8E952470FBFC8740BC09FACA1@Aidan> References: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> <35DE6DD8E952470FBFC8740BC09FACA1@Aidan> Message-ID: <4A2456E5.2000409@infinity-ltd.com> John J. McDonough wrote: > > > While the repo is an obvious answer, it is really only interesting to > Fedorans. Sources in the repos are wrapped up in these mysterious "rpm" > files. Yeah, if you have any Linux you can use file-roller, but what if > you are coming from Windows? Those things might as well be encrypted. > If you are going to use anything besides the provided package manager, you are going to have to do some learning. If you are going to use an RPM based distribution, you will need to learn about RPMs. > Of course, lots of stuff is in git, and you can look freely with just a > web browser. But is everything? Other stuff is in CVS. How do you know? > It would probably help to learn how to use the rpm command. You can look at the output of "rpm -qi " or "rpm -qpi " to find out all kinds of information, including the home page of the package. From there, you have to hope the home page will tell you how to access the source. If you do not have any idea of the package name, you can use the rpm -qf command to find the package name from an installed file. [mikkel]$ rpm -qf /bin/bash bash-3.2-30.fc10.i386 [mikkel]$ rpm -qi bash-3.2-30.fc10.i386 Name : bash Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 3.2 Vendor: Fedora Project Release : 30.fc10 Build Date: Mon 15 Dec 2008 05:06:43 AM CST Install Date: Wed 07 Jan 2009 03:52:29 AM CST Build Host: x86-3.fedora.phx.redhat.com Group : System Environment/Shells Source RPM: bash-3.2-30.fc10.src.rpm Size : 5216703 License: GPLv2+ Signature : DSA/SHA1, Mon 15 Dec 2008 02:35:20 PM CST, Key ID bf226fcc4ebfc273 Packager : Fedora Project URL : http://www.gnu.org/software/bash Summary : The GNU Bourne Again shell (bash) version 3.2 Description : The GNU Bourne Again shell (Bash) is a shell or command language interpreter that is compatible with the Bourne shell (sh). Bash incorporates useful features from the Korn shell (ksh) and the C shell (csh). Most sh scripts can be run by bash without modification. This package (bash) contains bash version 3.2, which improves POSIX compliance over previous versions. Or you can do it all in one step: [mikkel]$ rpm -qfi /bin/bash Name : bash Relocations: (not relocatable) Version : 3.2 Vendor: Fedora Project Release : 30.fc10 Build Date: Mon 15 Dec 2008 05:06:43 AM CST Install Date: Wed 07 Jan 2009 03:52:29 AM CST Build Host: x86-3.fedora.phx.redhat.com Group : System Environment/Shells Source RPM: bash-3.2-30.fc10.src.rpm Size : 5216703 License: GPLv2+ Signature : DSA/SHA1, Mon 15 Dec 2008 02:35:20 PM CST, Key ID bf226fcc4ebfc273 Packager : Fedora Project URL : http://www.gnu.org/software/bash Summary : The GNU Bourne Again shell (bash) version 3.2 Description : The GNU Bourne Again shell (Bash) is a shell or command language interpreter that is compatible with the Bourne shell (sh). Bash incorporates useful features from the Korn shell (ksh) and the C shell (csh). Most sh scripts can be run by bash without modification. This package (bash) contains bash version 3.2, which improves POSIX compliance over previous versions. This will work on any RPM based distribution. If you want the source, you would go to http://www.gnu.org/software/bash - if you want the source RPM, you would look for "bash-3.2-30.fc10.src.rpm". I hope this will let someone that is a better writter then I am write directions for new users. Mike -- Old age and treachery ALWAYS beats Youth and Enthusiasm! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From mikkel at infinity-ltd.com Mon Jun 1 23:32:10 2009 From: mikkel at infinity-ltd.com (Mikkel L. Ellertson) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 18:32:10 -0500 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: <1243895195.4349.16.camel@thunder> References: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> <4A24520C.9020801@infinity-ltd.com> <1243895195.4349.16.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A2464FA.8060506@infinity-ltd.com> Eric Christensen wrote: > > But as someone pointed out, that source RPM isn't in an exceptionally > open format. AND I know that everything Fedora produces isn't in RPM > format. > > Eric > RPM isn't an open format as compared to what? It isn't a simple format, but it is about as open as you can get. It is used by multiple distributions, and is available for other systems besides Linux. It is easy to access with the proper tools. For that matter, you can install a source RPM just like you would install a binary RPM. It will put the files in the default build tree for the user doing the installation. You do not have to be root to install a source RPM. Now, as far as Fedora producing something that is not an RPM, I would like to see an example of that. Some things are generated "on the fly" by the scripts included in the RPM, but there is nothing stopping you from looking at the scripts - even is a binary RPM. There are some packages available from non-Fedora sites that will compile modules when ever you install a new kernel, but these are not produced by Fedora. You also have binary-only packages, but again, these are not coming from Fedora. Mike -- Registered Linux User #16148 (http://counter.li.org/) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 23:48:31 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 19:48:31 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: <4A2464FA.8060506@infinity-ltd.com> References: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> <4A24520C.9020801@infinity-ltd.com> <1243895195.4349.16.camel@thunder> <4A2464FA.8060506@infinity-ltd.com> Message-ID: <20090601234831.GD3583@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 06:32:10PM -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > Eric Christensen wrote: > > > > But as someone pointed out, that source RPM isn't in an exceptionally > > open format. AND I know that everything Fedora produces isn't in RPM > > format. > > > > Eric > > > RPM isn't an open format as compared to what? It isn't a simple > format, but it is about as open as you can get. It is used by > multiple distributions, and is available for other systems besides > Linux. It is easy to access with the proper tools. For that matter, > you can install a source RPM just like you would install a binary > RPM. It will put the files in the default build tree for the user > doing the installation. You do not have to be root to install a > source RPM. I think we should differentiate "open" in the sense of "documented, transparently accessible by any tool" (which the RPM format is) from "easy to understand for n00bs." (which it's not). However, you can open an RPM with any number of easy tools, and it's easy to document the fastest way to get RPM source: 1. Install yum-utils and rpm-build packages, or better yet the "Fedora Packager" group to make things easy. 2. Run 'yumdownloader --source '.[1] 3. Run 'rpm -ivh .spec' to build the source from the archive, applying patches and so forth. 5. Browse in ~/rpmbuild/BUILD/- to heart's desire. > Now, as far as Fedora producing something that is not an RPM, I > would like to see an example of that. Some things are generated "on > the fly" by the scripts included in the RPM, but there is nothing > stopping you from looking at the scripts - even is a binary RPM. I think Eric was referring to our many hosted projects, infrastructure, websites, artwork, and so forth, where source is stored in some sort of source code control, but RPM packages are indeed not produced or published. Fedora produces a lot more than just the software packaged for your distribution! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Jun 1 23:57:51 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 01 Jun 2009 19:57:51 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: <20090601234831.GD3583@localhost.localdomain> References: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> <4A24520C.9020801@infinity-ltd.com> <1243895195.4349.16.camel@thunder> <4A2464FA.8060506@infinity-ltd.com> <20090601234831.GD3583@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1243900671.4349.26.camel@thunder> On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 19:48 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 06:32:10PM -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > > Eric Christensen wrote: > > > > > > But as someone pointed out, that source RPM isn't in an exceptionally > > > open format. AND I know that everything Fedora produces isn't in RPM > > > format. > > > > > > Eric > > > > > RPM isn't an open format as compared to what? It isn't a simple > > format, but it is about as open as you can get. It is used by > > multiple distributions, and is available for other systems besides > > Linux. It is easy to access with the proper tools. For that matter, > > you can install a source RPM just like you would install a binary > > RPM. It will put the files in the default build tree for the user > > doing the installation. You do not have to be root to install a > > source RPM. > > I think we should differentiate "open" in the sense of "documented, > transparently accessible by any tool" (which the RPM format is) from > "easy to understand for n00bs." (which it's not). Yeah, I wasn't trying to suggest that RPMs aren't open, they just aren't easily as understood as, say, the actual text from the CVS. > > Now, as far as Fedora producing something that is not an RPM, I > > would like to see an example of that. Some things are generated "on > > the fly" by the scripts included in the RPM, but there is nothing > > stopping you from looking at the scripts - even is a binary RPM. > > I think Eric was referring to our many hosted projects, > infrastructure, websites, artwork, and so forth, where source is > stored in some sort of source code control, but RPM packages are > indeed not produced or published. Yep, that's a large part of our missing openness. > > Fedora produces a lot more than just the software packaged for your > distribution! > > -- > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 00:06:21 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 20:06:21 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: <1243900671.4349.26.camel@thunder> References: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> <4A24520C.9020801@infinity-ltd.com> <1243895195.4349.16.camel@thunder> <4A2464FA.8060506@infinity-ltd.com> <20090601234831.GD3583@localhost.localdomain> <1243900671.4349.26.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090602000621.GH3583@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 07:57:51PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 19:48 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 06:32:10PM -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > > > Now, as far as Fedora producing something that is not an RPM, I > > > would like to see an example of that. Some things are generated "on > > > the fly" by the scripts included in the RPM, but there is nothing > > > stopping you from looking at the scripts - even is a binary RPM. > > > > I think Eric was referring to our many hosted projects, > > infrastructure, websites, artwork, and so forth, where source is > > stored in some sort of source code control, but RPM packages are > > indeed not produced or published. > > Yep, that's a large part of our missing openness. I have an idea -- let's use "comprehensibility" instead of "openness" here, lest we cause some consternation about what's open and what's not. Everything we produce in Fedora is open, transparent, and attainable by anyone. Whether the route to do that makes sense to people new to the project, is quite another matter, one which we hope to rectify. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 2 12:33:35 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 08:33:35 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide Message-ID: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> Gees, I forgot about this! Is this guide ready for prime time? Can we add a link to it on the release announcement? -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks at fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Tue Jun 2 12:58:49 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 08:58:49 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > Gees, I forgot about this! ?Is this guide ready for prime time? ?Can we > add a link to it on the release announcement? > > -- > Thanks, > Eric Christensen > Fedora Docs Project > > Fedora Talk: 5102043 ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 > E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks at fedoraproject.org > IRC: Sparks on freenode.net > > GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 ?1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Yes - we haven't pushed anything to the website post-preview release and we need to do that soon, but the guide is ready to go. From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 2 13:39:16 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:39:16 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 08:58, David Nalley wrote: > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Eric Christensen > wrote: >> Gees, I forgot about this! ?Is this guide ready for prime time? ?Can we >> add a link to it on the release announcement? >> >> -- >> Thanks, >> Eric Christensen > > Yes - we haven't pushed anything to the website post-preview release > and we need to do that soon, but the guide is ready to go. > Okay, go ahead and push it to the website and I'll throw a link to it up on the announcement. What do you think about publishing a PDF version as well? Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 2 13:40:02 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:40:02 -0400 Subject: New Project: HOWTO Freely Obtain Our Source In-Reply-To: <20090602000621.GH3583@localhost.localdomain> References: <4A240783.9090003@infinity-ltd.com> <4A24520C.9020801@infinity-ltd.com> <1243895195.4349.16.camel@thunder> <4A2464FA.8060506@infinity-ltd.com> <20090601234831.GD3583@localhost.localdomain> <1243900671.4349.26.camel@thunder> <20090602000621.GH3583@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 20:06, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 07:57:51PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> On Mon, 2009-06-01 at 19:48 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> > On Mon, Jun 01, 2009 at 06:32:10PM -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: >> > > Now, as far as Fedora producing something that is not an RPM, I >> > > would like to see an example of that. Some things are generated "on >> > > the fly" by the scripts included in the RPM, but there is nothing >> > > stopping you from looking at the scripts - even is a binary RPM. >> > >> > I think Eric was referring to our many hosted projects, >> > infrastructure, websites, artwork, and so forth, where source is >> > stored in some sort of source code control, but RPM packages are >> > indeed not produced or published. >> >> Yep, that's a large part of our missing openness. > > I have an idea -- let's use "comprehensibility" instead of "openness" > here, lest we cause some consternation about what's open and what's > not. ?Everything we produce in Fedora is open, transparent, and > attainable by anyone. ?Whether the route to do that makes sense to > people new to the project, is quite another matter, one which we hope > to rectify. > > -- > Paul W. Frields ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://paul.frields.org/ Yeah... I'm having vocabulary problems this week. Eric From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Tue Jun 2 13:45:20 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 09:45:20 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 08:58, David Nalley > wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Eric Christensen >> wrote: >>> Gees, I forgot about this! ?Is this guide ready for prime time? ?Can we >>> add a link to it on the release announcement? >>> >>> -- >>> Thanks, >>> Eric Christensen >> >> Yes - we haven't pushed anything to the website post-preview release >> and we need to do that soon, but the guide is ready to go. >> > > Okay, go ahead and push it to the website and I'll throw a link to it > up on the announcement. ?What do you think about publishing a PDF > version as well? > > Eric > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > I honestly haven't kept up with what's going on with publican. Last I tried - there was a bug that caused us to only be able to build the first 20 pages of the pdf. I'll see if that's fixed, we actually have had a request for the IG to be in PDF. btw, here is the link for what we pushed for PR, and this same link will be where we push the release stuff: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/ From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 14:10:48 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:10:48 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090602141048.GL21580@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 09:39:16AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 08:58, David Nalley > wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Eric Christensen > > wrote: > >> Gees, I forgot about this! ?Is this guide ready for prime time? ?Can we > >> add a link to it on the release announcement? > >> > >> -- > >> Thanks, > >> Eric Christensen > > > > Yes - we haven't pushed anything to the website post-preview release > > and we need to do that soon, but the guide is ready to go. > > > > Okay, go ahead and push it to the website and I'll throw a link to it > up on the announcement. What do you think about publishing a PDF > version as well? You'll want to make sure through the #fedora-admin channel or other contact to Infrastructure that any of those link targets are cached properly. The canonical list is at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Infrastructure_SOP#Static_.2F_cached_urls -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 14:15:10 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:15:10 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090602141510.GM21580@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 09:45:20AM -0400, David Nalley wrote: > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 08:58, David Nalley wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > >>> Gees, I forgot about this! ?Is this guide ready for prime time? ?Can we > >>> add a link to it on the release announcement? > >>> > >> Yes - we haven't pushed anything to the website post-preview release > >> and we need to do that soon, but the guide is ready to go. > >> > > Okay, go ahead and push it to the website and I'll throw a link to it > > up on the announcement. ?What do you think about publishing a PDF > > version as well? > > I honestly haven't kept up with what's going on with publican. Last I > tried - there was a bug that caused us to only be able to build the > first 20 pages of the pdf. > I'll see if that's fixed, we actually have had a request for the IG to > be in PDF. > > btw, here is the link for what we pushed for PR, and this same link > will be where we push the release stuff: > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/ Yay, nice job on the URLs by the way! And I'm overjoyed to see the IG is out there rarin' to go for release day. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From smooge at gmail.com Mon Jun 1 17:02:46 2009 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2009 11:02:46 -0600 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Announcement FINAL In-Reply-To: <20090601165920.GZ9001@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090601165920.GZ9001@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <80d7e4090906011002i2a1f9bc7h745d777be313bd92@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 10:59 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 01:13:52PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> Thanks to Jack and Paul for stepping up and really getting the release >> announcement[1] built. ?We, at Docs, have reviewed the final draft and >> think we are in consensus that it is complete. ?Please look over it >> and see if anything jumps out at you. ?If not, this is what we'd like >> to go with. >> >> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 > > As we've discussed previously elsewhere, translators can create their > own localized announcements using our talking points: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F11_Talking_Points > > They do not need to translate the top part of the announcement (the > funny safari story) at all if desired. If off to read his fun stories for Boys from 1905.. I think we should make this a running gag. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice" From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 2 14:41:16 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:41:16 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <20090602141048.GL21580@localhost.localdomain> References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> <20090602141048.GL21580@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:10, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 09:39:16AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 08:58, David Nalley >> wrote: >> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Eric Christensen >> > wrote: >> >> Gees, I forgot about this! ?Is this guide ready for prime time? ?Can we >> >> add a link to it on the release announcement? >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Thanks, >> >> Eric Christensen >> > >> > Yes - we haven't pushed anything to the website post-preview release >> > and we need to do that soon, but the guide is ready to go. >> > >> >> Okay, go ahead and push it to the website and I'll throw a link to it >> up on the announcement. ?What do you think about publishing a PDF >> version as well? > > You'll want to make sure through the #fedora-admin channel or other > contact to Infrastructure that any of those link targets are cached > properly. ?The canonical list is at: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Infrastructure_SOP#Static_.2F_cached_urls > > -- > Paul W. Frields ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://paul.frields.org/ Looks like it is already on the list! Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 2 14:44:00 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:44:00 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> Message-ID: On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 09:39, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 08:58, David Nalley > wrote: >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Eric Christensen >> wrote: >>> Gees, I forgot about this! ?Is this guide ready for prime time? ?Can we >>> add a link to it on the release announcement? >>> >>> -- >>> Thanks, >>> Eric Christensen >> >> Yes - we haven't pushed anything to the website post-preview release >> and we need to do that soon, but the guide is ready to go. >> > > Okay, go ahead and push it to the website and I'll throw a link to it > up on the announcement. ?What do you think about publishing a PDF > version as well? > > Eric > The announcement has been updated. From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 2 14:48:49 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 10:48:49 -0400 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <4A1391FD.4070908@redhat.com> References: <4A1391FD.4070908@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 01:15, M.R Niranjan wrote: > Greetings, > > My name is M.R.Niranjan and would like to join Fedora Documentation team, > ?Most of my skills are around Samba, LDAP, Directory Server, Printing (CUPS) > and little bit of > Virtualization(KVM). > > I have been associated with Linux for past 4 years as System administrator > and as Technical Support Executive , I have knowledge on Shell scripting, > and Basics of C. > > Though i haven't written any visible public articles but would like to > contribute to Fedora Documentation in what ever way possible. > > Thanks > Niranjan > > > pub ? 1024D/6047C7C7 2009-05-19 > Key fingerprint = F791 7A87 814F EBCF 2682 ?94D6 2EED C55F 6047 C7C7 > uid ? ?Mallapadi Raghavendra Rao Niranjan > sub ? 2048g/58596235 2009-05-19 > > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Welcome Niranjan! You've caught us at a somewhat busy period with the release of Fedora 11 coming up. Please take a look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Joining_the_Docs_Project and complete the process of joining. You weren't subscribed to the list so your message didn't make it through. Please subscribe! We have meetings on Thursdays at 00:01 UTC on IRC in the #fedora-meeting room (irc.freenode.net) and generally converse in #fedora-docs on Freenode. Again, welcome aboard! Eric Christensen Docs Project Lead From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 2 15:26:08 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 11:26:08 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> <20090602141048.GL21580@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090602152608.GB21580@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 10:41:16AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 10:10, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 02, 2009 at 09:39:16AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 08:58, David Nalley > >> wrote: > >> > On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 8:33 AM, Eric Christensen > >> > wrote: > >> >> Gees, I forgot about this! ?Is this guide ready for prime time? ?Can we > >> >> add a link to it on the release announcement? > >> >> > >> >> -- > >> >> Thanks, > >> >> Eric Christensen > >> > > >> > Yes - we haven't pushed anything to the website post-preview release > >> > and we need to do that soon, but the guide is ready to go. > >> > > >> > >> Okay, go ahead and push it to the website and I'll throw a link to it > >> up on the announcement. ?What do you think about publishing a PDF > >> version as well? > > > > You'll want to make sure through the #fedora-admin channel or other > > contact to Infrastructure that any of those link targets are cached > > properly. ?The canonical list is at: > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Infrastructure_SOP#Static_.2F_cached_urls > > Looks like it is already on the list! Might want to check on the PDF URL too -- in other words, if you guys decide on a URL for the PDF now, you could pass that along to Infrastructure to have it cached. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 2 16:54:39 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:54:39 -0400 Subject: [Bug 129722] (tracker) Docs ready for going to fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906021654.n52GsdPd015883@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=129722 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|ASSIGNED |CLOSED CC| |eric at christensenplace.us Resolution| |NOTABUG -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 2 16:58:34 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:58:34 -0400 Subject: [Bug 503780] New: Fedora 12 Release BLOCKER Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Fedora 12 Release BLOCKER https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=503780 Summary: Fedora 12 Release BLOCKER Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: eric at christensenplace.us ReportedBy: eric at christensenplace.us QAContact: kwade at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Use this bug to show that a particular bug is blocking your guide/document from being released in time for Fedora 12. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 2 16:59:37 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 12:59:37 -0400 Subject: [Bug 503780] Fedora 12 Release BLOCKER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906021659.n52Gxbfx016669@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=503780 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |500474 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 2 21:00:43 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 2 Jun 2009 17:00:43 -0400 Subject: [Bug 503780] Fedora 12 Documentation Release BLOCKER In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906022100.n52L0hh4009082@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=503780 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Summary|Fedora 12 Release BLOCKER |Fedora 12 Documentation | |Release BLOCKER -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From r.landmann at redhat.com Tue Jun 2 22:17:27 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:17:27 +1000 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A25A4F7.3020401@redhat.com> David Nalley wrote: > > I honestly haven't kept up with what's going on with publican. Last I > tried - there was a bug that caused us to only be able to build the > first 20 pages of the pdf. > I'll see if that's fixed, we actually have had a request for the IG to > be in PDF. > The bug's still there, but it only appeared in version 0.44. You can build the PDF fine in Publican version 0.40 (see here, for example: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/en-US/pdf/Installation_Guide.pdf ) Cheers Rudi From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 2 22:24:28 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:24:28 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <4A25A4F7.3020401@redhat.com> References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> <4A25A4F7.3020401@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1243981468.4379.9.camel@thunder> On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 08:17 +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > David Nalley wrote: > > > > I honestly haven't kept up with what's going on with publican. Last I > > tried - there was a bug that caused us to only be able to build the > > first 20 pages of the pdf. > > I'll see if that's fixed, we actually have had a request for the IG to > > be in PDF. > > > The bug's still there, but it only appeared in version 0.44. > > You can build the PDF fine in Publican version 0.40 (see here, for > example: > http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/en-US/pdf/Installation_Guide.pdf > ) > > Cheers > Rudi > Perfect. Is there a reason why the guide is still marked "draft"? Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From r.landmann at redhat.com Tue Jun 2 22:43:10 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:43:10 +1000 Subject: Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <1243981468.4379.9.camel@thunder> References: <1243946015.4519.5.camel@thunder> <4A25A4F7.3020401@redhat.com> <1243981468.4379.9.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A25AAFE.1060107@redhat.com> Eric Christensen wrote: > > Perfect. Is there a reason why the guide is still marked "draft"? > > No - the text hasn't changed since I built this PDF a few weeks back From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Jun 2 23:02:03 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 04:32:03 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 Alpha Release Notes Message-ID: <4A25AF6B.6050908@fedoraproject.org> Hi I know it is early but this is a short lifecycle and there has already been new features moving forward for Fedora 12, so here is the draft http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes Rahul From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 3 12:16:37 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:16:37 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder Message-ID: <1244031397.4369.0.camel@thunder> REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 12:45:15 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 08:45:15 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Alpha Release Notes In-Reply-To: <4A25AF6B.6050908@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A25AF6B.6050908@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090603124515.GJ3551@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 04:32:03AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > I know it is early but this is a short lifecycle and there has already > been new features moving forward for Fedora 12, so here is the draft > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes Note that Rahul already kindly moved this to the new name: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Beta_release_notes ...since there's no Alpha for F12. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 3 12:52:28 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 08:52:28 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Alpha Release Notes In-Reply-To: <4A25AF6B.6050908@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A25AF6B.6050908@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1244033548.4861.0.camel@thunder> On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 04:32 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > I know it is early but this is a short lifecycle and there has already > been new features moving forward for Fedora 12, so here is the draft > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes > > Rahul > Good grief, are we already thinking about 12?!? :) I appreciate you getting this going. -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks at fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From lee.brewer at charterinternet.com Wed Jun 3 13:04:16 2009 From: lee.brewer at charterinternet.com (Lee Brewer) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:04:16 -0400 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <1244034256.4157.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Good morning. My name is Lee Brewer and I've been a Fedora user since version 7 when I was at Nuvox. I met David Nalley and a recent UCLUG.org meeting and after talking with him for a while he asked if I would be interested in joining the docs team. I currently work for the imaging division of Sharp Electronics and would loke to work on printing in a Linux environment, which I myself have struggled with on occasion. What I'm hoping to get out of this is to show as many people as possible how easy it is to move from Micro$oft to Linux. ______________________ ~Lee sent using Fedora(10) Linux Evolution email Smoothwall firewall From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Wed Jun 3 13:39:05 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 09:39:05 -0400 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <1244034256.4157.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1244034256.4157.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Lee Brewer wrote: > Good morning. > > My name is Lee Brewer and I've been a Fedora user since version 7 when I > was at Nuvox. ?I met David Nalley and a recent UCLUG.org meeting and > after talking with him for a while he asked if I would be interested in > joining the docs team. ?I currently work for the imaging division of > Sharp Electronics and would loke to work on printing in a Linux > environment, which I myself have struggled with on occasion. > > What I'm hoping to get out of this is to show as many people as possible > how easy it is to move from Micro$oft to Linux. > > > ______________________ > ~Lee > sent using Fedora(10) Linux > Evolution email > Smoothwall firewall > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Welcome Lee, What excellent timing. The Docs Team is going to have its weekly meeting tonight at 8pm Eastern, 0001, UTC, in #fedora-meeting That would be an excellent chance to get acquainted. At the moment things are all still abuzz for the pending release of F11. Thanks for the intro, David Nalley From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 3 14:12:08 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:12:08 -0400 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <1244034256.4157.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1244034256.4157.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 09:04, Lee Brewer wrote: > Good morning. > > My name is Lee Brewer and I've been a Fedora user since version 7 when I > was at Nuvox. ?I met David Nalley and a recent UCLUG.org meeting and > after talking with him for a while he asked if I would be interested in > joining the docs team. ?I currently work for the imaging division of > Sharp Electronics and would loke to work on printing in a Linux > environment, which I myself have struggled with on occasion. > > What I'm hoping to get out of this is to show as many people as possible > how easy it is to move from Micro$oft to Linux. > > > ______________________ > ~Lee > sent using Fedora(10) Linux > Evolution email > Smoothwall firewall Welcome Lee, As David pointed out, we have our weekly meeting[1] tonight starting at 8PM EDT (or 0001 UTC). Please join us. We will be in #fedora-meeting on Freenode IRC[2]. All other times we use #fedora-docs to communicate in real time. Please join us there as well. So what's your passion? What would you like to write about? We have various projects happening right now so you can probably help out with a variety of taskers. Hope to catch you up on IRC. Thanks, Eric Docs Project Lead [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate#IRC From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 3 14:12:44 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 10:12:44 -0400 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: References: <1244034256.4157.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 09:39, David Nalley wrote: > Welcome Lee, > > What excellent timing. The Docs Team is going to have its weekly > meeting tonight at 8pm Eastern, 0001, UTC, in #fedora-meeting > That would be an excellent chance to get acquainted. At the moment > things are all still abuzz for the pending release of F11. > Thanks for the intro, > > > David Nalley David, Will you be sponsoring Lee? Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 3 16:25:03 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 12:25:03 -0400 Subject: Today's Meeting Agenda Message-ID: I've updated today's meeting agenda[1]. I've added quite a few items to include discussion on F12. Please look over the agenda before tonight's meeting and if you have your name on a topic go ahead and prepare a status. We have a lot to go over tonight and I'm hoping to get F12 off on the right foot. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Thursday_June_4.2C_2009_.28Wed_US_Time.29 Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 3 17:40:52 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 13:40:52 -0400 Subject: Guide table and BZ Message-ID: If you haven't updated the Guide Table[1] lately, please take a look at it and see if you can provide any updates. I'd also like to clean up the Fedora Documentation product in BZ. Currently there are the following components: - about-fedora - General project information for main menu. - desktop-up2date - Keeping a desktop up-to-date using graphical tools. - desktop-user-guide - User guide for those new to Linux and Fedora. - developer-guide - Striving to be the canonical Fedora development reference. - docs-common - Common files and tools for documentation contributors. - documentation-guide - The Guide is the canonical set of guidelines and hotos for FDP contributors. - example-tutorial - The canonical reference document for how to use XML/DocBook for the FDP. - ftp-server - Guide to set up a full ftp server. - hardening - System hardening for Fedora Core 3. - install-guide - Installation guide for Fedora - jargon-buster - Striving to be the canonical glossary for all things Fedora. - mirror-tutorial - Mirroring and update services for Fedora. - press-release - Stylesheets and build tools for Fedora press releases. - proxy-guide - Building and maintaining a secure proxy server. - readme-burning-isos - README for burning ISO images, included at mirrors. - readme-live-image - README for inclusion in Live ISO spins - readme - README file for inclusion in ISO spins - release-notes - Fedora release notes, bugs, and requests - rpm-guide - RPM Guide - selinux-apache - Using SELinux and Apache HTTP Server in Fedora - selinux-faq - FAQs abut SELinux in Fedora. - selinux-user-guide - User guide to SELinux in Fedora. - software-management-guide - Software installation and maintenance on systems. - sudo-tutorial - Short tutorial on using sudo. - toolchain-devel - For bugs and requests of the documentation tools. - translation-guide - The canonical reference for translating all aspects of the Fedora Project - translation-guide-windows - Tutorial for translators working in a Microsoft Windows environment. - translation-quick-start-guide - Helping new translators get started quickly with Fedora translations. - updates - Tutorial for keeping a system up-to-date - usb-hotplug - Using USB and hotplug - xml-normalize - Development of XML normalization tools As you can see there are quite a few components that are outdated. I'd like to scrub the list this week so that I can have a list to present at next week's meeting showing what we can discard and what we need to update. If you own one of these projects please get with me (on IRC or otherwise), soon. I need to verify the information that is on each of these components including who should be assigned the ticket by default, who the QA is, and who should be CC'd on the ticket. If you need a component added to BZ, please let me know and we can get one in there for you. Thanks, Eric [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 3 18:00:44 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 14:00:44 -0400 Subject: Task Table Message-ID: I know we haven't looked at the Task Table[1] lately but I want to clean it up and clean it out tonight. If you know you have a task on the table please update it before today's meeting, please. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_admin_tasks_for_experienced_contributors#Task_table Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 20:26:15 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:26:15 -0400 Subject: Guide table and BZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090603202615.GL3551@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 01:40:52PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > If you haven't updated the Guide Table[1] lately, please take a look at it and > see if you can provide any updates. Here are some inputs and votes, just as a Docs contributor in most places. Anywhere I did otherwise, I clearly noted it. > I'd also like to clean up the Fedora Documentation product in BZ.? Currently > there are the following components: > > ? about-fedora - General project information for main menu. This menu item (I think) displays whether or not yelp is installed, such as on the Live CD. We should consider removing this item or replacing it with something that is more programmatic like "About GNOME," which is an application rather than a link to an installed XML document. Really, this is part of the release-notes component, but probably shouldn't be. > ? desktop-up2date - Keeping a desktop up-to-date using graphical tools. Way, way out of date. Mostly subsumed into the software-management-guide (q.v. below). > ? developer-guide - Striving to be the canonical Fedora development > reference. Such a worthwhile reference, and so badly in need of a complete trashing and overhaul! I'd help with this in my spare time (?!?) if someone took it on. > ? docs-common - Common files and tools for documentation contributors. Has been imported to the fedora-doc-utils git repo for further development or abandonment as needed. This component is needed for anything that is not converted to publican. If everything Docs needs gets converted, this could be abandoned and bugs closed CLOSED WONTFIX. > ? documentation-guide - The Guide is the canonical set of guidelines and > hotos for FDP contributors. Karsten and a couple other people floated the idea of making this a wiki document and not publishing it any longer. If and when that happens, this component could disappear and bugs would be easy to fix by editing the wiki. Keep in mind putting it on the wiki means we break the ability to have the document translated with anything approaching automatic systems -- for now. Having said that, I'm not sure how interested the translators are in keeping this one up to date. > ? example-tutorial - The canonical reference document for how to use XML/ > DocBook for the FDP. Useful, but should probably live somewhere else, even the wiki as a Media: link would be fine, in association with the documentation-guide above. At one time I planned to merge these but a career change got in the way. ;-) > ? ftp-server - Guide to set up a full ftp server. /me votes: Wiki-ize it. > ? hardening - System hardening for Fedora Core 3. What did I do with those old CD's... :-) Probably subsumed into the securityguide, right? > ? install-guide - Installation guide for Fedora By the way, David Nalley, thank you. This exists in Fedora Hosted git and it's up to the Docs team to decide if they want to record all bugs on BZ. > ? jargon-buster - Striving to be the canonical glossary for all things > Fedora. Probably could be wiki-ized with very little effort (copy/paste from HTML and then markup simply on the wiki). > ? mirror-tutorial - Mirroring and update services for Fedora. Hey, my first official work for Fedora Docs, written for Fedora Core 2 originally! Now totally busted and out of date. /me votes: Trash it. > ? press-release - Stylesheets and build tools for Fedora press releases. I don't think we've ever used it after the release for which it was written. The translation work flow for press releases didn't go off well and I think we are unlikely to re-use this. > ? proxy-guide - Building and maintaining a secure proxy server. Probably also way out of date and unlikely to be fixed without an active maintainer. Written by a really nice guy from across the pond -- Gavin Henry, IIRC -- who just ran out of cycles for us. > ? readme-burning-isos - README for burning ISO images, included at mirrors. > ? readme-live-image - README for inclusion in Live ISO spins > ? readme - README file for inclusion in ISO spins > ? release-notes - Fedora release notes, bugs, and requests /me votes to keep these, but that seems kind of obvious. The plain old "README" needs vast adjustments. > ? rpm-guide - RPM Guide Still in search of an active maintainer crew, and I *know* the guys in Brno would appreciate it now that we're on 4.7. > ? selinux-apache - Using SELinux and Apache HTTP Server in Fedora Karsten worked hard on a lot of these docs back in SELinux's early days. I think this is quite old and our targeted policy probably Just Works(tm) in enforcing mode these days. /me votes 50% trash it, 50% lying if I told you I looked at it before I wrote this. :-) > ? selinux-faq - FAQs abut SELinux in Fedora. > ? selinux-user-guide - User guide to SELinux in Fedora. I think the latter is probably useful to update, but the tools have progressed and ought to be documented to continue combatting the "just disable SELinux" mindset. Dan Walsh in Red Hat would be happy to answer questions from anyone who wanted to revise this guide. He's a great guy and has written fabulous blog entries on the topic on a continual basis: http://danwalsh.livejournal.com/ > ? software-management-guide - Software installation and maintenance on > systems. Speaking with my FPL hat on, software management should cover PackageKit use, including pkcon at the CLI, now that PackageKit is present in every current Fedora distro by default. Yum should be handled in terms of a back end configuration engine (yum-fastestmirror, yum-presto, yum-makemeasandwich) rather than the first place new users turn to manage software. > ? sudo-tutorial - Short tutorial on using sudo. Still useful I think, but probably could be wiki-ized, and then dropped from BZ. > ? toolchain-devel - For bugs and requests of the documentation tools. I guess this is subtly different from the "docs-common" component, but I'm not sure it needs to be in BZ if the team is moving 100% to Publican. > ? translation-guide - The canonical reference for translating all aspects of > the Fedora Project Check with L10n team before doing anything with this one, I think. There is a git repo for this guide now, but I think they still use the BZ component for issue tracking. > ? translation-guide-windows - Tutorial for translators working in a Microsoft > Windows environment. Ditto. > ? translation-quick-start-guide - Helping new translators get started quickly > with Fedora translations. Tritto. (Ha, I just made that up.) > ? updates - Tutorial for keeping a system up-to-date Way out of date and should suffer the same fate as desktop-up2date, I think. > ? usb-hotplug - Using USB and hotplug With hal and udev, and now DeviceKit, this is two generations of technology old. /me votes: Trash it. > ? xml-normalize - Development of XML normalization tools Obsolete if the team centralizes on Publican, and really it could be subsumed in toolchain-devel in any case, if still needed at all. > As you can see there are quite a few components that are outdated.? I'd like to > scrub the list this week so that I can have a list to present at next week's > meeting showing what we can discard and what we need to update. > > If you own one of these projects please get with me (on IRC or otherwise), > soon.? I need to verify the information that is on each of these components > including who should be assigned the ticket by default, who the QA is, and who > should be CC'd on the ticket. I truly hope this helped. Sorry I was so short in this email -- not intended to be rude, I'm just short on time this week due to release, and really, really wanted to be able to give you a hand with sorting through these. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From piotrdrag at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 20:36:52 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 22:36:52 +0200 Subject: Guide table and BZ In-Reply-To: <20090603202615.GL3551@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090603202615.GL3551@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A26DEE4.3050601@gmail.com> Paul W. Frields pisze: >> ? translation-guide - The canonical reference for translating all aspects of >> the Fedora Project > Check with L10n team before doing anything with this one, I think. > There is a git repo for this guide now, but I think they still use the > BZ component for issue tracking. >> ? translation-guide-windows - Tutorial for translators working in a Microsoft >> Windows environment. > Ditto. >> ? translation-quick-start-guide - Helping new translators get started quickly >> with Fedora translations. > Tritto. (Ha, I just made that up.) > Actually only the third component is used and up-to-dated guide these days. The others need serious re-write or can be safely trashed. -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 3 20:51:38 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 16:51:38 -0400 Subject: Guide table and BZ In-Reply-To: <4A26DEE4.3050601@gmail.com> References: <20090603202615.GL3551@localhost.localdomain> <4A26DEE4.3050601@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090603205138.GS3551@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Jun 03, 2009 at 10:36:52PM +0200, Piotr Dr?g wrote: > Paul W. Frields pisze: >>> ? translation-guide - The canonical reference for translating all aspects of >>> the Fedora Project >> Check with L10n team before doing anything with this one, I think. >> There is a git repo for this guide now, but I think they still use the >> BZ component for issue tracking. >>> ? translation-guide-windows - Tutorial for translators working in a Microsoft >>> Windows environment. >> Ditto. >>> ? translation-quick-start-guide - Helping new translators get started quickly >>> with Fedora translations. >> Tritto. (Ha, I just made that up.) >> > > Actually only the third component is used and up-to-dated guide these > days. The others need serious re-write or can be safely trashed. There may be an excellent lesson there -- if it's possible to write a Quick Start, no one will read anything else, and you may not have to bother with the other one. :-) I'm pretty sure that applies mainly to community projects like Fedora, but not more rigorous products like RHEL. No slight intended on the superb work produced by Red Hat documentation team writers, on whose manuals I relied years ago for sage advice. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Jun 3 22:43:47 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 08:43:47 +1000 Subject: Guide table and BZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A26FCA3.4010403@redhat.com> Eric Christensen wrote: > If you haven't updated the Guide Table[1] lately, please take a look > at it and see if you can provide any updates. > > I'd also like to clean up the Fedora Documentation product in BZ. > Currently there are the following components: > > * about-fedora - General project information for main menu. > * readme-burning-isos - README for burning ISO images, included at > mirrors. > * readme-live-image - README for inclusion in Live ISO spins > * readme - README file for inclusion in ISO spins > I've got versions of the above four documents converted to build in Publican, as well as: * Homepage (we need to make a decision about whether to even keep this -- I strongly suggest killing it since it serves no useful purpose, and only potentially serves to confuse users) * Accessibility (which appears to be seriously out-of-date. I've updated a number of URLs, but I have no idea whether this document actually reflects the current state of accessibility tools in Fedora) I really don't think that any of these should be packaged with the Release Notes as they have been in the past. I haven't checked any of these into the repo; the Publicanized versions will need attention from L10N, and I don't want to touch that until Transifex gets updated to version 0.6. Finally , I plan to produce a "Quick Start" Installation Guide for F12 to cover the "path of least resistance" for somebody to download Fedora and get it installed on a typical PC. This would be the Guide for a user who doesn't need the full documentation of the installation process and all its options that the IG offers. Some of this Guide will necessary overlap somewhat with "readme-burning-isos" and possibly make that smaller doc redundant. Cheers Rudi From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 02:03:48 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:03:48 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504062] New: Update helping-hand docs Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Update helping-hand docs https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504062 Summary: Update helping-hand docs Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade at redhat.com ReportedBy: mel at redhat.com QAContact: kwade at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Review, organize, rewrite, simplify, and categorize Docs team helper docs. -- waiting on page renaming and categorization -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 02:05:59 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:05:59 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504063] New: Toolchain next steps Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Toolchain next steps https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504063 Summary: Toolchain next steps Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade at redhat.com ReportedBy: mel at redhat.com QAContact: kwade at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Sorting out what fedora-doc-utils does, where to use Publican, etc. -- Principals to discuss status, progress, direction on IRC. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 02:09:19 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:09:19 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504069] New: Docs to fedorahosted.org Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Docs to fedorahosted.org https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504069 Summary: Docs to fedorahosted.org Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade at redhat.com ReportedBy: mel at redhat.com QAContact: kwade at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora 75% complete? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 02:07:22 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:07:22 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504065] New: Team per document Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Team per document https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504065 Summary: Team per document Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade at redhat.com ReportedBy: mel at redhat.com QAContact: kwade at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Lead writers identified, still working on solid teams. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 02:06:45 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:06:45 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504064] New: Publican migration Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Publican migration https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504064 Summary: Publican migration Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade at redhat.com ReportedBy: mel at redhat.com QAContact: kwade at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Figure out steps for a migration of each guide; track that in each guide's Trac. Installation Guide migration branch in git; task in progress, possible work at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/FAD/FAD_SCaLE -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 02:08:50 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:08:50 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504068] New: Update task lists Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Update task lists https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504068 Summary: Update task lists Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade at redhat.com ReportedBy: mel at redhat.com QAContact: kwade at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora ke4qqq helping with new contributor tasks, quaid working on all lists; IG and relnotes moved to hosted Trac. (Note that this ticket is part of an experiment by mchua to keep tasks in BZ.) -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 02:07:51 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:07:51 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] New: CMS for docs.fp.org Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: CMS for docs.fp.org https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Summary: CMS for docs.fp.org Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade at redhat.com ReportedBy: mel at redhat.com QAContact: kwade at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Zikula chosen, working on test instances and project plan with Zikula team -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 02:09:58 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:09:58 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504070] New: Update Fedora Documentation components in BZ Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Update Fedora Documentation components in BZ https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504070 Summary: Update Fedora Documentation components in BZ Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade at redhat.com ReportedBy: mel at redhat.com QAContact: kwade at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Just beginning. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 02:08:07 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 22:08:07 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504067] New: Student mentoring Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Student mentoring https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504067 Summary: Student mentoring Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: kwade at redhat.com ReportedBy: mel at redhat.com QAContact: kwade at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Focus on wiki and entry tasks; regular check-ins; keep scope and choices narrow where there is lots of room to succeed and learn; FLOSS Proj Mgmt session at FUDCon? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From oglesbyzm at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 02:25:36 2009 From: oglesbyzm at gmail.com (Zach Oglesby) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 04:25:36 +0200 Subject: Docs Meeting 20090604 Message-ID: <20090604022401.GB10381@zaphod.zach.tk> Here is the log file for June 4, 2009's Docs meeting, summary will be out soon. 02:00 < Sparks> 02:00 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting 02:00 < Sparks> Roll Call! 02:00 * Sparks is here 02:00 * zoglesby is here 02:01 -!- jjmcd [n=jjmcd at 75-134-169-186.dhcp.bycy.mi.charter.com] has joined #Fedora-meeting 02:02 * rudi is here 02:02 -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster 02:03 * jjmcd . 02:04 < Sparks> zoglesby: Can you handle the log for tonight? 02:04 < zoglesby> I don't have logs... 02:05 < zoglesby> I can scroll and copy and paste 02:05 < zoglesby> unless someone can tell me how to log in irssi real fast 02:05 -!- stickster is now known as stickster_afk 02:06 -!- adamw [n=AdamW at redhat/adamw] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 02:06 < Sparks> zoglesby: No, that's how you do it, I think. 02:06 < Sparks> Anyone else for the Docs Meeting? 02:06 -!- stickster_afk is now known as stickster 02:06 < zoglesby> Sparks: I can do it then 02:07 * Sparks wonders where everyone is tonight. 02:08 < jjmcd> Watching the Wings? 02:08 < Sparks> Maybe... 02:08 < Sparks> Well, let's get started.. 02:08 * stickster is sorry he's late 02:08 < stickster> I can handle logs if needed. 02:09 < Sparks> stickster: Be a backup... I think zoglesby needs to practice... :) 02:09 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - [[FAD SELF 2009]] <-- ke4qqq 02:09 < zoglesby> ill do it, but I thought irssi had a log function 02:09 * stickster is apparently at the mercy of LAG 02:09 < stickster> Will do 02:09 < Sparks> Well... I don't know where ke4qqq is but I'll talk a little about FAD. 02:09 < stickster> It does, IIRC 02:10 < Sparks> SELF @ Clemson on Jun 13. The day after we will have a Docs FAD. 02:10 < stickster> /RAWLOG open 02:10 < Sparks> We will be looking heavily at F12 processes and how to improve them. 02:11 < stickster> Yay! 02:11 < Sparks> If you plan on attending please sign up at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF_2009 02:11 * stickster will be there too, flight is not until ~5:30 or 6:00pm 02:11 < Sparks> Cool 02:11 < Sparks> Does anyone have any questions about SELF or the FAD? 02:11 < zoglesby> is there going to be a conf call number? 02:12 < jjmcd> 2008? 02:12 < Sparks> Yeah, I think so 02:12 * ke4qqq is here 02:12 < ke4qqq> but late 02:12 -!- adamw [n=AdamW at S010600226b8aa2ea.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:12 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Anything to add? 02:12 -!- spoleeba [n=one at fedora/Jef] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:13 < stickster> Who's responsible for setting up the call stuff? 02:13 < stickster> i.e. hardare 02:13 < ke4qqq> nothing here - you covered most of it 02:13 < stickster> *hardware, even 02:13 < ke4qqq> stickster: I am 02:13 < stickster> Do you need anything that I can help provide? 02:13 < ke4qqq> ianweller is also bringing his 02:13 < ke4qqq> yourself 02:13 < ke4qqq> and that's it 02:13 < stickster> :-) done! 02:13 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf at 124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:14 < Sparks> Okay, anything else? 02:14 < ke4qqq> eof from me 02:14 < Sparks> ke4qqq: I'm assuming you'll send out an email or put something on the wiki about how to remotely attend. 02:14 < ke4qqq> yeah I need to remmeber the conf number for docs 02:15 < ke4qqq> but yes we'll do that 02:15 < Sparks> 2008 02:15 -!- jsmith [n=jsmith at asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:15 < ke4qqq> in the next day or so 02:15 < Sparks> Cool 02:15 < Sparks> Okay, moving on... 02:15 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid 02:15 < Sparks> Last week we started discussing changing our licensing from OPL to CC-BY-SA. 02:15 < Sparks> I don't think quaid is with us tonight, though, so I don't know what the status is. 02:16 < Sparks> Does anyone have any questions about the change? 02:16 < stickster> Were we waiting for something to be resolved regarding compatibility with internal RH teams? 02:16 < Sparks> kinda 02:16 * stickster not sure what quaid is meant to answer, and would be happy to send some email around to check on stuff 02:17 < Sparks> I think we were waiting to make sure everything was okay 02:17 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf at 124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:17 < Sparks> quaid said he was going to run with it within the RH community. 02:17 < ke4qqq> I think we were also waiting on which specific version of cc-by-sa RH Legal was going to bless 02:17 < stickster> k 02:17 < stickster> Yeah, I'm sure there was some further Legal review required in there. 02:18 < Sparks> yeah... okay, anything else? 02:18 * stickster stands back and lets everyone do their thang 02:18 < Sparks> okay, moving on... 02:18 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd 02:18 < Sparks> jjmcd: So what's the status on the RN? 02:18 < jjmcd> We got an update today I think, still need to check more to be sure it isn't there in different words 02:18 < jjmcd> but all on docs.fp.o 02:19 < Sparks> excellent. 02:19 < jjmcd> If change only en-US will make it to docs.fp.o for release 02:19 < Sparks> Yeah, I saw the update come through earlier. 02:19 < jjmcd> but rest will get through on an update 02:19 < jjmcd> we are now in a position where we can easily produce an update rpm 02:19 < Sparks> Have you already pushed the RPM up? 02:19 < jjmcd> from like a week ago 02:20 < stickster> That's the standard GA one, right? 02:20 < stickster> 11.0.0-2? 02:20 < jjmcd> Yeah 02:20 < jjmcd> 11.0.1 I thinlk 02:20 < jjmcd> 11.0.1 I think 02:20 < stickster> Ooo 02:20 < stickster> That's the zero day? Includes L10n? 02:20 < jjmcd> yes 02:20 < stickster> Wow, bonzer 02:20 < jjmcd> but if we have a REAL zero day 02:21 < jjmcd> I've also been working on linking to reduce space 02:21 < jjmcd> Recognized some odd things with yelp, still not sure whats going on there 02:21 < jjmcd> yelp documentation seems to be lacking 02:22 < jjmcd> We're not seeing icons in note, tip, etc 02:22 < jjmcd> But that appears to be yelp's to do, all we do is say, e.g. 02:22 < stickster> jjmcd: You and I probably need to collaborate on that so I can help you keep your hair 02:23 < jjmcd> Works fine on 10, not on 11. But I'm not 100% certain that I've found all of yelp's tentacles 02:23 < jjmcd> stickster, sounds like a plan 02:23 < Sparks> jjmcd: Anything else? 02:23 < jjmcd> No 02:23 < Sparks> anyone? 02:23 -!- Cheshirc [n=Sam at unaffiliated/cheshirc] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:24 < zodbot> Announcement from my owner (stickster): FESCo nominee town hall meeting at 0200 UTC (~100 minutes from now) -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Elections#IRC_Town_Halls 02:24 < stickster> Me realizes "need" is a lot of assumption, maybe "could" is better :-) 02:24 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf at 124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:24 < jjmcd> '-) 02:24 < Sparks> Okay, moving on... 02:24 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Release Announcement <-- Sparks 02:24 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf at 124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:24 < Sparks> Thanks to everyone who helped out with the Announcement. 02:25 < Sparks> It has been tweaked, pounded, deleted, restored, and edited. 02:25 < Sparks> I think we are done with it. :) There are links to the RNs and to the Installation Guide at the bottom so it's good for us. 02:25 < jjmcd> I just wish you guys could hear George Dobbs, G3RJV, talk. 02:25 < Sparks> jjmcd: Freq? 02:25 -!- joat [n=joat at ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:25 < jjmcd> He's a British minister and sounds just like that 02:25 < Sparks> :) 02:26 < jjmcd> FDIM ;-) 02:26 < joat> whew! 02:26 < Sparks> Does anyone have any questions or comments on the Announcement? 02:26 < Sparks> Okay, moving on... 02:27 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- ke4qqq & rudi 02:27 < stickster> Did anyone let the translators know that they could run with it and abandon the top part at will? 02:27 * stickster can't remember whether he remembered to fire something off on that or not. 02:27 -!- ldimaggi_ [n=ldimaggi at pool-96-252-14-181.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:27 < Sparks> Ummm... not from this office 02:27 < jsmith> I thought it was at the list... 02:27 -!- ldimaggi_ is now known as ldimaggi_home 02:27 < jsmith> s/at the/on the/ 02:27 < jjmcd> I thouhgt I saw something on l10n 02:27 < rudi> stickster 02:27 * stickster is busier than a one-legged man in a butt-kickin' contest and doesn't recall 02:28 < rudi> Ooops - I see you were commenting on the last topic, NM 02:28 < rudi> Install Guide is in translation - Italian now nearly complete 02:29 < jjmcd> rudi, thanks for helping Claudia 02:29 < rudi> Whole stack of changes and revisions to make after release :) 02:29 < stickster> Sparks: I don't see it on fedora-trans-list, could you send something out? 02:29 < rudi> jjmcd - NP. I like to lie in wait for new translators ;) 02:29 < Sparks> stickster: yeah, I will 02:29 < stickster> disco 02:30 * stickster notes that the top part is only (barely, arguably) funny in English and translators are free to come up with their own material. 02:30 < Sparks> rudi and ke4qqq: Can we get the final draft of HTML and PDFs up on docs.fp.o no later than Sunday? 02:30 < rudi> Sparks - NP 02:31 < rudi> Already good to go. 02:31 < Sparks> rudi: Cool. When you figure out where the PDF is going please let Admin know so they can add it to the cache list. 02:31 < Sparks> rudi: Excellent. 02:31 < rudi> NP 02:31 < Sparks> Okay, anything else for the Installation Guide? 02:32 < rudi> Nope :) 02:32 < stickster> Thank you for working on that, guys 02:33 < Sparks> Okay... Now I need to bring up a topic that... well, is a little scary. 02:33 < Sparks> If you are sensitive to that kind of stuff, you should look away. 02:33 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Fedora 12... Only 152 days to GA... <-- Sparks 02:33 < Sparks> Yes... Only 152 days until Fedora 12 is released. 02:33 < Sparks> and yes, we need to be looking at this now. 02:34 * jjmcd thought he cold wait until FUDcon to kick off F12 RN's 02:34 < stickster> Yay F12! Last key on the keyboard! 02:34 < Sparks> jjmcd: Actually the RNs for F12 are already started! 02:34 -!- mdomsch [n=mdomsch at cpe-70-124-62-55.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:34 < jjmcd> Yeah I saw that 02:34 < Sparks> stickster: What happens with F13? Are we skipping it for superstitious reasons? 02:35 < stickster> Nope, it's going to be named either "Keating" or "Eamon" 02:35 < rudi> Sparks - the USAF did :) 02:35 < stickster> Wait, that might not work. 02:35 < jjmcd> That will certainly be cornfusing on IRC 02:35 < stickster> Oops, I forgot about the whole voting thing :-) 02:35 < Sparks> stickster: Oh we can make that happen. 02:35 < rudi> How about F13 Stealth :) 02:36 < stickster> When f13's IRC starts buzzing him 24/7 I'm going to laugh, and laugh... 02:36 < Sparks> Oh that is good... 02:36 < Sparks> Yeah, he's going to have to change 02:36 < zoglesby> Sparks: what would you like to mention about this? Or just trying to wake us up and get ready? 02:36 < stickster> I remember when he was a different nick, we'll see if he goes back to it. More deponent sayeth not. 02:36 < jjmcd> I figured maybe that was his retirement release 02:37 < Sparks> So here's the real scary part... 02:37 < Sparks> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-summary-tasks.html 02:37 < Sparks> And here are things I want to work on... 02:37 < Sparks> Docs_decisions_for_F12 <-- we'll be working on this during FAD and we'll have answers then 02:38 < Sparks> The Release Notes will be done in Publican 02:38 < stickster> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 02:38 < jjmcd> uitstekend! 02:38 < Sparks> as well as all the guides... 02:38 < Sparks> Okay, you can stop laughing now... I know we've said that every release for the past few... but I'm serious now... kinda 02:38 -!- collier_s [n=collier_ at cpe-70-112-140-13.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:39 < Sparks> Release Notes will be done early and will be available by Oct 15 (not including zero-day) <-- this one is for jjmcd 02:39 < jjmcd> With no alpha, are beta rn's going to be in n languages 02:39 < Sparks> We are going to have to get this stuff squared away. We got "lucky" by F11 being pushed. 02:40 * stickster thinks it's vital that the team center on one toolset. 02:40 < Sparks> And not just us... folks were still providing changes. 02:40 < Sparks> not good 02:40 < Sparks> stickster: yes! 02:40 < Sparks> There will be no zero-day changes 02:40 < Sparks> Okay... maybe this is wishful thinking... 02:41 < Sparks> but we had way too many changes that seemed to trickle in 02:41 < jjmcd> And I think we are just about there. Didn't someone have the f-d-u stuff ported, just waiting to push? 02:41 < Sparks> we need to get folks on the ball with this. Cattle prod or something. 02:41 < zoglesby> jjmcd: I think so 02:41 < jjmcd> Sparks, well, having ticklers on the schedule for notes to the lists will help 02:41 < zoglesby> Rlandmann did them 02:41 < Sparks> yes... and that will be something I'm going to talk about in a few minutes. 02:41 < jjmcd> That figures - that guy don't sleep 02:41 < Sparks> Translation issues must be taken into consideration 02:42 < Sparks> We had complaints from the translation teams and I understand their frustration. We need to work with them on how to not make things harder for them. 02:42 -!- Nirmal [n=npathak at nat/redhat-in/x-be1f7bcbcd369df9] has quit ["Leaving"] 02:42 < jjmcd> Sparks, I think we need to be a lot more proactive on communicating to fedora-trans-list 02:43 < jjmcd> as well as restructuring rn's 02:43 -!- neverho0d [n=psv at 62.68.142.34] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 02:43 < Sparks> And finally... All guides, other than Installation Guide, should be in Publican and be pushed to docs.fp.o in HTML and PDF formats and should be packaged. 02:43 < zoglesby> this is all stuff thats going to be hammered out at FAD right? 02:44 < stickster> jjmcd: +1. 02:44 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes! 02:44 < stickster> A lot of it is just sending periodic emails, a few times a week, and anytime you want to change something. 02:44 < stickster> (during the freeze, that is) 02:44 < stickster> And more, it really should be soliciting opinions and getting +/-1 from the L10n community. 02:45 < Sparks> stickster: And thank them a lot! They are doing a tough job. 02:45 < stickster> no kidding 02:45 < stickster> I don't know how they do it. Seriously. 02:45 < jjmcd> zoglesby, I am expecting you guys to work hard rather than spending all your time eating fried chicken and greens 02:45 < stickster> mmmffwha-huh? 02:45 * jjmcd won't be at SELF :-( 02:45 < Sparks> fried chicken??? Where? 02:45 < stickster> If there is not some good fried chicken in my belly on Sunday I will be an unhappy camper. 02:46 < stickster> Or BBQ. 02:46 < zoglesby> jjmcd: I will not be there, to much money to fly from spain 02:46 < stickster> I can be flexible. 02:46 < Sparks> stickster: You can't get good BBQ over there... 02:46 < Sparks> you have to go east of I-95 in NC 02:46 < jjmcd> I was looking forward to ke4qqq's en-SC.po tho 02:46 * Sparks is hoping to stop by Gaffney, though. 02:47 < stickster> jjmcd: heh 02:47 < stickster> OK -- back to Sparks' last comment about packaging 02:47 < stickster> I like the idea of dropping the whole yelp/OMF thing and going with simple, installable HTML that appears as a menu entry 02:48 < stickster> But we can hash this out at SELF I guess :-) 02:48 < rudi> +1 for HTML; which will be more KDE-friendly too 02:48 < jjmcd> I like the UI for yelp, the html is kind of a secret, altho a menu would help 02:48 < rudi> (or KDE-friendly at all, in fact ;) 02:49 < Sparks> +1 02:49 * jjmcd hadn't considered KDE 02:49 < jjmcd> od XFCE 02:49 < stickster> rudi: Interestingly, I had a special KDE khelpcenter installation handled in fedora-doc-utils (originally docs-common) 02:49 < jjmcd> s/od/or 02:49 < rudi> jjmcd - nobody ever does :( 02:49 < stickster> But I couldn't get anyone to help me make sure I was Doing It Right 02:49 < rudi> No dirty GNOME on my machines! :) 02:49 < stickster> /KICKBAN rudi 02:50 < stickster> You'll have to forgive him, he lives in the upside down part of the world 02:50 < rudi> lolz 02:50 * stickster apologetically lets Sparks get on with it 02:51 < Sparks> No... I did that for one reason... spark discussion! 02:51 < zoglesby> stickster: you are mighty off topic today... 02:51 < jjmcd> Do we want to package pdf? And why not pdf instead of xml? 02:51 < jjmcd> errr html 02:51 < zoglesby> I think the pdf looks better 02:51 < Sparks> pdf is great for portable... html is better for searching via google or such 02:52 < Sparks> So I'd rather have... both! 02:52 < stickster> HTML is also more searchable from a variety of indexing utilities the person may be using 02:52 < stickster> Two copies seems wasteful to me. 02:52 < jjmcd> I guess they should be packaged separately 02:52 < zoglesby> stickster: good point I don't use indexing tools 02:52 < stickster> Nothing wrong with that 02:53 * stickster points to diveintopython-* RPMs as examples 02:54 < jjmcd> Still, 1428 seems like a lot of rpms 02:54 < Sparks> Well... just note that we aren't going to have much down time for the F12 release. 02:54 -!- Netsplit bartol.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: ivazquez, davej, so_solid_moo 02:54 < stickster> jjmcd: wha-huh? 02:54 < jjmcd> 17 docs * 42 langs * 2 formats 02:54 < stickster> Ugh. 02:54 -!- Netsplit over, joins: ivazquez, so_solid_moo, davej 02:54 < Sparks> but we can continue this conversation on F12 in coming weeks 02:55 < Sparks> Wow... That's a lot of packages 02:55 < stickster> jjmcd: I could see packaging all langs together 02:55 < Sparks> should we have them approved separately? 02:55 < stickster> *choke* 02:55 < jjmcd> Docs needs to grow some packagers 02:56 < zoglesby> I am slowly learning 02:56 < stickster> There is a special RPM variable that lets you drop locales; if you guys got with the RPM developers you might be able to work something out the same way with documentation RPMs. 02:56 < Sparks> Yeah, I think we are going to work on that @ Clemson 02:56 < zoglesby> but its all been haskeel stuff 02:56 < rudi> packaging all langs together would make for some big packages :) IIRC, over 100MB for the Install Guide 02:56 < stickster> You guys know that /usr/share/locale has the translated messages for everything you install, right? 02:57 < stickster> There are ways to silently drop out all the locales except your current one when you install a RPM package 02:57 < stickster> Cuts down on disk space when it's tight. 02:57 < stickster> Actually, the more I think about it.... 02:58 < stickster> I think that we ought to concentrate on establishing a presence where people can manually install the documentation RPM they want. 02:58 < stickster> PackageKit makes it drop-dead easy point-and-click. 02:58 < jjmcd> exactly 02:58 < stickster> We do *not* want to put 1428 more RPMs in Fedora. 02:58 < stickster> That's just silly. 02:58 -!- spoleeba [n=one at fedora/Jef] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 02:58 < stickster> As always, this is just my $0.02 02:59 < stickster> I would think that we should put real muscle during the next 30 days after release into getting Zikula off the ground. 02:59 -!- neverho0d [n=psv at 62.68.142.31] has joined #fedora-meeting 02:59 < Sparks> Yes! 02:59 < stickster> And one of the purposes that could serve would be to house the new docs.fp.o 02:59 < stickster> Including "pretty-fied" access to the new docs RPMs. 03:00 < stickster> There are a number of other things people want out of the Zikula CMS 03:00 < jjmcd> That would be way cool 03:00 < stickster> But none of it's going to happen unless we make it happen. 03:00 < stickster> Our current web publishing sucks rocks. 03:00 < jjmcd> I didn't say that 03:00 < stickster> haha 03:01 < stickster> It was "good enough" (for some value thereof) for Fedora Core 3, but this community has come a *long* way since then. 03:01 < stickster> We've got to have something that is easier to run, easier to administer, and easier to understand. 03:01 < zoglesby> are we still wating on packages or testing? 03:02 < Sparks> I think some parts are still waiting to be packaged 03:02 < stickster> ke4qqq: Any insight here? 03:02 < stickster> Can we make it a point *before* SELF to establish what's left to be done, and try and do as much as possible of it there, after the decision tasks? 03:03 -!- jwb__ [n=jwboyer at 24-247-191-219.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:03 < Sparks> Yeah, I'll get with ke4qqq and get a list 03:03 -!- jwb [n=jwboyer at fedora/jwb] has quit [Nick collision from services.] 03:04 -!- jwb__ is now known as jwb 03:04 < Sparks> Okay, anything else on these topics? 03:04 * stickster is really hot to get *something* off the ground so we can get to work on this 03:04 < zoglesby> indeed 03:05 < stickster> I installed it on my local box and tried it out, it was pretty easy to run and I was thoroughly impressed. 03:05 < Sparks> Okay, let's move on to the last few topics. 03:05 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Bugzilla Component Changes 03:05 < Sparks> I sent an email out to the list earlier today. 03:06 < Sparks> It contains a list of all the components of Docs in BZ 03:06 < jjmcd> wits a lot of docs which would be really cool to have 03:06 < Sparks> At next week's meeting we'll figure out which ones to dump. 03:06 -!- mchua [n=mchua at rrcs-208-105-78-114.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:06 < jjmcd> Sparks, I smell an opportunity 03:06 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes and this is a good time to pull those out, dust them off, and get some of our new members involved. 03:07 < jjmcd> exactly 03:07 * mchua apologizes for tardiness 03:07 < stickster> mchua!!!!1!! 03:07 < zoglesby> what bug do you speak of? 03:07 < jjmcd> It can be pretty low pressure but with a lot of flexibility 03:07 < Sparks> zoglesby: Not a bug... the components that break out the docs on BZ 03:08 < zoglesby> I think i found the email 03:08 < jjmcd> BZ = military speak for Bugzilla, but you knew that 03:08 * zoglesby looks at my pants 03:08 < zoglesby> still in the military... 03:08 < jjmcd> AF might not talk the same as the Navy tho 03:09 < Sparks> zoglesby: I didn't realize the AF was still considered a military group. 03:09 < zoglesby> nope I don't go to the head 03:09 < zoglesby> I am not going to defend them... 03:10 < Sparks> okay, I'm not harrassing my AF buddies now 03:10 < jjmcd> Why do I get the feeling that zoglesby ain't gonna be a lifer 03:10 < Sparks> SO, who NEEDS/WANTS a BZ component for their project? 03:10 < zoglesby> I do 03:10 -!- cyberpea1 [n=james at fedora/cyberpear] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:10 < zoglesby> I have been working on readme-burning-isos to make it foss only 03:11 * Sparks thought that was already in BZ 03:11 < jjmcd> I think there is a component for that 03:11 < Sparks> zoglesby: I can assign it to you. 03:12 < rudi> zoglesby - when you're done with those, can you shoot me the updated verson so I can incorporate it into my Publicanized version of the doc? 03:12 < stickster> zoglesby: Hang on, did you mean you're *removing* instructions for how people can use their existing proprietary software to try, and switch to, Fedora? 03:12 < rudi> (Heh... or not...) 03:12 < zoglesby> nero and such are not parts of windows 03:12 < jjmcd> stickster, I think a lot of what was there was old stuff 03:13 < zoglesby> and you cant include every application out there 03:13 < stickster> zoglesby: You're absolutely right, but Nero is also shipped with a *ton* of hardware by default 03:13 -!- cyberpear [n=james at fedora/cyberpear] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:13 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf at 124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote closed the connection] 03:13 < stickster> zoglesby: Can you include a single section for "Other software," where you try to make instructions that are generic enough to work for most other apps that people can't get for free? 03:14 < stickster> Many people will have pre-installed software from OEMs and we don't want to leave them out in the cold 03:14 < zoglesby> we talked about this before in #docs but we can talk about it again there after this 03:14 < rudi> True - it's rare to see a Windows box out there *without* Nero or Sonic on it... 03:14 < jjmcd> Of course, with newer versions of Windows you don't need that stuff anymore, and I'm not so sure I've seen it with any recent drives 03:14 < stickster> ok, we don't need to derail here 03:14 * stickster & 03:14 < stickster> jjmcd: good point 03:14 * stickster is happy as long as we can cover whatever comes free with other big-market-share OS 03:15 < Sparks> zoglesby: Would you like tickets for that to go to you? 03:15 < stickster> and some appropriate free aps 03:15 < stickster> *apps 03:15 < zoglesby> indeed 03:15 < zoglesby> to both of you... 03:15 < Sparks> Okay... 03:16 < Sparks> zoglesby: Do you have an editor? 03:16 -!- kulll [n=kulll at 203.82.79.101] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)] 03:16 < zoglesby> an editor? like emacs? or a person? 03:17 < Sparks> a person 03:17 < Sparks> If not... I'll put myself as QA 03:17 < zoglesby> not that I know of 03:17 < Sparks> ok 03:17 < stickster> yay Emacs! 03:17 < Sparks> We haven't done that in a while. 03:18 * Sparks is proud of stickster for standing up for Emacs on FLOSS Weekly 03:18 < Sparks> :) 03:18 < zoglesby> indeed again 03:18 < zoglesby> emacs comes up a lot of that show 03:18 < Sparks> okay... anything else on the BZ stuff? 03:19 -!- asgeirf_ [n=asgeirf at 124-171-209-152.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:19 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Calendar 03:19 < Sparks> Okay... I want a calendar. 03:19 < zoglesby> me to 03:20 < Sparks> I'm thinking about just posting a ical file, or something like that, to docs.fp.o and giving everyone read access. 03:20 < Sparks> Would that be helpful? 03:20 < Sparks> It would be the Docs calendar... helpful reminders of deadlines, meetings, events, etc. 03:20 < zoglesby> works for me 03:21 < zoglesby> but ideally something with controlled write access would be nice 03:21 < jjmcd> Why not in git so anyone can maintain it 03:21 < stickster> eventually to be subsumed by Zikula also :-) 03:21 < Sparks> jjmcd: We could. I'm trying to come up with a solution 03:21 < Sparks> Zikula has a calendaring function... 03:22 < jjmcd> If Zikula is doing it for us, then maybe a wiki page in the interim 03:22 < Sparks> jjmcd: The only problem with a wiki page is that it won't incorporate into a calendar I automatically stare at daily 03:23 * Sparks thinks this would be a similar problem 03:23 < Sparks> I mean, there are already release calendars out there that I forget to look at. 03:23 < stickster> don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. 03:23 < stickster> An iCal on a site is a start 03:23 < stickster> and can probably be imported to Zikula later 03:24 < Sparks> Any other ideas? 03:24 < zoglesby> buy google and open source google apps? 03:25 < stickster> heh 03:25 < jjmcd> google calendar sucks swanp water 03:25 < Sparks> Whose to say it isn't open source... has anyone asked? 03:25 < stickster> It's not 03:25 * Sparks likes google calendar 03:25 < stickster> The API is open, that's it. 03:25 < Sparks> Okay... so I'm going to work on an iCal and attempt to figure out the best way of doing it 03:26 -!- mchua_ [n=mchua at nat/redhat/x-9303b86521641bc4] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:26 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who at fedora/sonarguy] has quit ["Leaving"] 03:26 < Sparks> Okay, moving on... 03:26 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - New Guide - Where's the source? 03:26 -!- mchua [n=mchua at rrcs-208-105-78-114.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:27 < Sparks> To help people get to our source files I want to build a small guide that helps point people to where they can obtain source files. 03:28 -!- mchua_ is now known as mchua 03:28 < Sparks> It's on the wiki right now. If anyone would like to adopt this and move it into Publican please let me knwo. 03:28 < Sparks> It would be an excellent project for a new member 03:28 * stickster wonders if Publican may not be necessary for this one, since the need for formal publication is probably pretty low 03:29 < Sparks> stickster: My want was to get it on docs.fp.o 03:29 < zoglesby> keep it on the wiki? 03:29 < stickster> Yes 03:29 < Sparks> But it could be kept on the wiki... it's just easier to get buried there 03:29 < stickster> Because the wiki is more or less the center for development efforts 03:29 < Sparks> and forgotten 03:29 < stickster> We could solve that with clever linking though :-) 03:30 < stickster> Essentially, no document on the wiki is important unless you do that. 03:30 < stickster> What makes wiki documents *not* forgotten is that you refer to it often :-) 03:30 -!- Sonar_Guy [n=Who at fedora/sonarguy] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:30 * stickster notes that there is a landing target he just found on the wiki: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Development 03:30 < stickster> I'd *totally* link to this new "Get the Source, Luke" page from there. 03:31 < Sparks> Cool 03:31 < stickster> that [[Development]] page is also linked from here: 03:31 < stickster> http://redhat.com/developers/ 03:31 < Sparks> I'm good with keeping it on the wiki as long as it stays visable 03:32 < stickster> I think if you publicize its existence, you won't have any problems with that ;-) 03:32 < Sparks> Cool 03:32 < stickster> Plenty of people will start linking to it, blogging, etc. 03:32 < Sparks> Any questions or comments? 03:32 < stickster> It's so obvious, it's a wonder we don't have it yet! 03:32 < zoglesby> and if we are wrong we move it later 03:32 < stickster> Sure, nothing's written in stone in the end. 03:33 < stickster> I just think moving things to Publican makes them less likely to be contributed to by people outside this group 03:33 < Sparks> stickster: yeah, it just hit me the other day... It's almost like you were speaking to me on a subconscious level 03:33 < stickster> That's OK for formal docs that need intense scrutiny 03:33 < Sparks> Okay, let's keep it on the wiki 03:33 < Sparks> and do some linking 03:34 < zoglesby> it would be helpful for other to add stuff, we are bound to forget someones project 03:34 * Sparks makes a note to blog about it 03:35 -!- jsmith is now known as jsmith-dinner 03:36 < Sparks> anything else on this? 03:36 < Sparks> okay... last thing 03:36 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Project - Go over task table 03:37 < Sparks> I want to make this task table more comprehensive and complete. 03:37 < Sparks> right now we have task lists and tables all over the place and they aren't being updated 03:37 < Sparks> Please take a look at the table and update it if you have something on there. 03:37 -!- cyberpear [n=james at fedora/cyberpear] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 03:38 < Sparks> Anyone have any questions? 03:38 -!- comraderaikov [n=sseierse at pool-173-64-93-105.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:39 < Sparks> Okay, does anyone have anything else about anything? 03:39 < stickster> heh 03:39 < mchua> Sparks: I'm also trying (now that I've read through a BZ tutorial) the "what if we used the BZ project-tracking component" experiment 03:40 < mchua> on the theory that it may be easier to keep up with one bz instance than with N separate wiki tables (either that or I'll just form the habit of actually using bookmarks) 03:40 < Sparks> That's an idea 03:40 < mchua> and was curious if anyone had any thoughts on the notion (do people not like keeping tasks in bz? have wikitables worked really, really well before?) 03:41 < Sparks> Maybe if we turned "nag" on in BZ it would be better. 03:42 < mchua> what would that do? autoemail you when tickets update? 03:43 < Sparks> I think it emails you weekly with tasks that you have open 03:43 < mchua> Ooh. Handy. 03:43 < Sparks> Yeah 03:44 * stickster wonders who gets lined up against the wall and shot first when every Red Hat engineer sees 328 new BZ emails every Monday morning 03:44 < stickster> Thankfully, I'm remote. But there are a lot of people in the Westford office that I like, and would miss! 03:44 < Sparks> stickster: I think it's a summary if I remember correctly 03:44 < stickster> o_O 03:45 < stickster> Can such a feature be opt-in? 03:45 < Sparks> I think you get a single email, weekly, with a list of your current tickets 03:45 < Sparks> I don't remember 03:46 < stickster> mchua: I'm in favor of simplify 03:46 < stickster> See right there? I could have typed "simplicity" but "simplify" was SHORTER. 03:46 < zoglesby> lol 03:47 < stickster> Historically we had a tough time getting Docs people to dig BZ 03:47 < stickster> But this is a very different Docs group these days. 03:47 < ricky> If you're thinking bugzilla for task tracking, have you looked at trac? 03:47 < stickster> ricky: I think the idea was that if other people are already filing docs bugs in BZ, what about tracking there too. 03:47 < zoglesby> we have a trac instance for every doc on fh.o 03:48 < stickster> Yeah, and that could be disabled and people diverted to BZ if we like 03:48 < ricky> Ah. Is the trac instance usually linked from the doc? 03:48 < stickster> Not yet 03:49 * mchua notes that based on http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/2.20/html/whining.html and http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/tip/en/html/groups.html, it seems like people can opt-in to bz whining. attempting now. 03:50 -!- kulll [n=kulll at 203.82.91.101] has joined #fedora-meeting 03:50 < Sparks> mchua: Let's finish this conversation over in #fedora-docs 03:50 * mchua nods 03:50 < Sparks> Okay, anything else before we spill over into hour three? 03:51 < Sparks> 5 03:51 < Sparks> 4 03:51 < Sparks> 3 03:51 < Sparks> 2 03:51 < Sparks> 1 03:51 < Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming! 03:51 < Sparks> -- Zach Oglesby GPG Key: 1378F79F http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Zoglesby -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 03:00:02 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 23:00:02 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906040300.n54302ne029335@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Priority|low |high Status|NEW |ASSIGNED CC| |eric at christensenplace.us AssignedTo|kwade at redhat.com |david at gnsa.us QAContact|kwade at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us Flag| |needinfo?(david at gnsa.us) --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-03 23:00:01 EDT --- Please record a status report in this bug, please. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 4 03:26:25 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 3 Jun 2009 23:26:25 -0400 Subject: Guide table and BZ In-Reply-To: <4A26FCA3.4010403@redhat.com> References: <4A26FCA3.4010403@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090604032625.GC6199@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 08:43:47AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Eric Christensen wrote: >> If you haven't updated the Guide Table[1] lately, please take a look at >> it and see if you can provide any updates. >> >> I'd also like to clean up the Fedora Documentation product in BZ. >> Currently there are the following components: >> >> * about-fedora - General project information for main menu. >> * readme-burning-isos - README for burning ISO images, included at >> mirrors. >> * readme-live-image - README for inclusion in Live ISO spins >> * readme - README file for inclusion in ISO spins >> > I've got versions of the above four documents converted to build in > Publican, as well as: > > * Homepage (we need to make a decision about whether to even keep this -- > I strongly suggest killing it since it serves no useful purpose, and only > potentially serves to confuse users) > * Accessibility (which appears to be seriously out-of-date. I've updated > a number of URLs, but I have no idea whether this document actually > reflects the current state of accessibility tools in Fedora) Pretty sure it doesn't reflect the current state. > I really don't think that any of these should be packaged with the > Release Notes as they have been in the past. There may be some requirement for an accessibility statement, but I'm not sure that really applies to Fedora; it may in fact be a holdover from the Red Hat Linux days that's simply stayed around like a weed. May be worth checking with Fedora Legal on the fedora-legal-list? > I haven't checked any of these into the repo; the Publicanized versions > will need attention from L10N, and I don't want to touch that until > Transifex gets updated to version 0.6. > > Finally , I plan to produce a "Quick Start" Installation Guide for F12 to > cover the "path of least resistance" for somebody to download Fedora and > get it installed on a typical PC. This would be the Guide for a user who > doesn't need the full documentation of the installation process and all > its options that the IG offers. Some of this Guide will necessary overlap > somewhat with "readme-burning-isos" and possibly make that smaller doc > redundant. Superb! Maybe you can use some common content as snippets in the Quick Start? Your call. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 4 03:36:36 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 03 Jun 2009 23:36:36 -0400 Subject: Release Announcement Ready for Translation Message-ID: <1244086596.14582.5.camel@thunder> Just wanted to drop you a note to say that the Release Announcement for Fedora 11[1] is completed and if you guys wanted to try to translate it for your local area... go for it. Paul stresses that you should adapt it as necessary for your area. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks at fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jun 4 08:19:54 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 13:49:54 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 Alpha Release Notes In-Reply-To: <1244033548.4861.0.camel@thunder> References: <4A25AF6B.6050908@fedoraproject.org> <1244033548.4861.0.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A2783AA.8010908@fedoraproject.org> On 06/03/2009 06:22 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 04:32 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hi >> >> I know it is early but this is a short lifecycle and there has already >> been new features moving forward for Fedora 12, so here is the draft >> >> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes >> >> Rahul >> > > Good grief, are we already thinking about 12?!? :) Not only are we already thinking about this, the release notes even gets links from press. http://discuss.itwire.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=13856#p49347 Rahul From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 12:22:26 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 08:22:26 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504063] Toolchain next steps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041222.n54CMQbV010950@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504063 John J. McDonough changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |wb8rcr at arrl.net --- Comment #1 from John J. McDonough 2009-06-04 08:22:25 EDT --- I wonder a bit about that description. In the process of preparing f-r-n for F11, there were only three things I could have used from a next generation toolchain: 1) Create .omf files, 2) deal with language merge/unmerge, and 3) package. I think we know wnat f-d-u does, at least "well enough" since we are leaving it behind. If we are also leaving yelp to history, which it sounds as if we will, then almost all of f-d-u's magic is irrelevant. I think we have concluded we want to use Publican pretty much everywhere, at least, I thought that's what I heard. So, that leaves us with just a few questions, pretty much around Publican. 1) Partly because of Publican weirdness, but also because we were clinging on to Gnome help, we manually produced the RPM for f-r-n. How hard do we want to push to get upstream to produce useable RPMs? My spin is that with a single document the process is simple enough that getting it fixed in Publican is more work than just doing it. 2) If we are going to simply point to an html from the menu, how do we handle languages? I know it can be done, I just don't know how. We need to identify that and document it. 3) Is there really any issue with languages once we have the new Transifex. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Thu Jun 4 13:00:16 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 09:00:16 -0400 Subject: The current state of Zikula Message-ID: Just to provide a quick sitrep on Zikula: Zikula is packaged, though I don't think that it is currently in a state that infrastructure will find acceptable due to some bundled libs that escaped the initial review. (Thanks to Toshio for pointing this out). I have packaged the libraries that were missing from Fedora's collection, and have an almost working package again. I say almost as there is one library that has some potential licensing issues (upstream thinks that it can just go away) and one of the bundled libs is deprecated and now a php builtin in php5- so I'll likely have to patch source for that. The larger problem is that this issue appears to be pervasive. The module Lukas has up for review [0] has 4 different libraries bundled in it, 3 of which aren't currently in Fedora. (the 4th was one of the packages I had to build to try and deal with this issue for Zikula core). We are likely to find that this happens in all of the modules, and is a larger packaging job than first envisioned. (up from around 8 modules needing packaged to 8 modules and x libraries, where x is almost assuredly 10 or more.) The good news is that we aren't the only ones running into this, and there has been some discussion this morning on the fedora-devel list about how virtually all web applications bundle libraries, and many of them are missing from Fedora and hopefully we can build a list of what we need and work with some of the other packagers who want some web apps included. . We may even be albe to leverage the php-SIG to help with this. The upside is that many of these libraries are relatively low hanging fruit to get your 'packager badge' Here are all of the modules we need for our instance: Content Version 3.0.3 - source tagged in SVN here: http://code.zikula.org/content/browser/tags/version-3.0.3 This is already being worked on by Lukas CoType Version 1.0.0 - download here: http://www.elfisk.dk/index.php?module=Folder&func=view&mode=folder.view&fold erid=52 - the source is probably in SVN somewhere, but not sure where. crpTag I'd take the head: http://code.zikula.org/crptag/browser/trunk, but just in case it is non functional perhaps we could package 0.1.3 too? http://code.zikula.org/crptag/browser/tags/crpTag_0.1.3 MediaAttach SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/mediaattach/browser/trunk/MediaAttach mediashare SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/mediashare/browser/trunk menutree Version 2.0.1: http://code.zikula.org/bianor/browser/tags/menutree/2.0.1 MultiHook SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/multihook/browser/trunk/MultiHook scribite Version 3.1: http://code.zikula.org/scribite/browser/tags/scribite/3.1 Custom Modules (no public source (yet)) ============== FASAuth FedoraDocs Static_Docs Custom Theme (no public source) Simon: If you have source for FASAuth, Static_Docs, and FedoraDocs we need to put that somewhere publicly accessible. I've created a resources request[1] for a git repository to hold these modules, as soon as it is created we can push that up. [0] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=492091 [1] https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1439 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jun 4 15:42:32 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 21:12:32 +0530 Subject: gnote - description - less vs fewer Message-ID: <4A27EB68.6020908@fedoraproject.org> Hi # yum info gnote "Gnote is a desktop note-taking application which is simple and easy to use. It lets you organize your notes intelligently by allowing you to easily link ideas together with Wiki style interconnects. It is a port of Tomboy to C++ and consumes less resources." Should I have used fewer instead? Rahul " From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jun 4 16:32:09 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:02:09 +0530 Subject: Fwd: Re: Checking isos with sha - small wrinkle Message-ID: <4A27F709.4080807@fedoraproject.org> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Checking isos with sha - small wrinkle Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:57:41 -0400 From: Todd Zullinger Reply-To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases Mike Cloaked wrote: > In the file README-BURNING-ISOS-en_US.txt that is currently being > synced to mirrors it still refers to sha1sum. That's as I would expect, since that advice applies to the current stable release. Hopefully the docs team has an update queued to note the use of sha256sum when F-11 is released. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Attached Message Part Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 543 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Attached Message Part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 4 17:13:53 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:13:53 -0400 Subject: gnote - description - less vs fewer In-Reply-To: <4A27EB68.6020908@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A27EB68.6020908@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 11:42, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > Hi > > # yum info gnote > > "Gnote is a desktop note-taking application which is simple and easy > to use. It lets you organize your notes intelligently by allowing > you to easily link ideas together with Wiki style interconnects. It > is a port of Tomboy to C++ and consumes less resources." > > Should I have used fewer instead? > > Rahul Looks good to me. Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 4 17:16:28 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:16:28 -0400 Subject: Checking isos with sha - small wrinkle In-Reply-To: <4A27F709.4080807@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A27F709.4080807@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 12:32, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: Checking isos with sha - small wrinkle > Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 11:57:41 -0400 > From: Todd Zullinger > Reply-To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases > > To: For testers of Fedora Core development releases > > > Mike Cloaked wrote: >> In the file README-BURNING-ISOS-en_US.txt that is currently being >> synced to mirrors it still refers to sha1sum. > > That's as I would expect, since that advice applies to the current > stable release. ?Hopefully the docs team has an update queued to note > the use of sha256sum when F-11 is released. If someone would open a ticket in BZ (under Fedora Documentation, README-BURNING-ISOS) that would be helpful. Thanks, Eric From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 17:23:31 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:23:31 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504063] Toolchain next steps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041723.n54HNVtv022904@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504063 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED AssignedTo|kwade at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us --- Comment #2 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-04 13:23:31 EDT --- (In reply to comment #1) > 1) Partly because of Publican weirdness, but also because we were clinging on > to Gnome help, we manually produced the RPM for f-r-n. How hard do we want to > push to get upstream to produce useable RPMs? My spin is that with a single > document the process is simple enough that getting it fixed in Publican is more > work than just doing it. I think we've pushed pretty hard to get the RPMs from Publican fixed upstream and approved by Fedora. I'm not sure what else we need to do to just spit out the RPMs as I thought all our problems had been solved. > 2) If we are going to simply point to an html from the menu, how do we handle > languages? I know it can be done, I just don't know how. We need to identify > that and document it. I didn't think we were just going to point to an html. Errr... are we talking about local html or pointing it to a website somewhere? > 3) Is there really any issue with languages once we have the new Transifex. I don't think there are any more issues... but I don't know that it's been tested so I won't say there won't be. Is there a test version of the new Transifex available? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 17:37:31 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:37:31 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504065] Team per document In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041737.n54HbV7N010134@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504065 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |piotrdrag at gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 17:38:21 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:38:21 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504068] Update task lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041738.n54HcLuR027677@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504068 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |piotrdrag at gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 17:38:08 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:38:08 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504064] Publican migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041738.n54Hc8g7027628@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504064 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |piotrdrag at gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 17:37:15 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:37:15 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504062] Update helping-hand docs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041737.n54HbFue027477@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504062 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |piotrdrag at gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 17:37:48 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:37:48 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504063] Toolchain next steps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041737.n54Hbm0s027557@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504063 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |piotrdrag at gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 17:38:45 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:38:45 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504070] Update Fedora Documentation components in BZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041738.n54Hcj4Z027754@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504070 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |piotrdrag at gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 17:38:32 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:38:32 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041738.n54HcWhF010541@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |piotrdrag at gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 17:37:57 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:37:57 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504069] Docs to fedorahosted.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041737.n54Hbvq3010366@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504069 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |piotrdrag at gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 18:03:19 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:03:19 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504063] Toolchain next steps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041803.n54I3Jc4017403@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504063 --- Comment #3 from John J. McDonough 2009-06-04 14:03:18 EDT --- > I think we've pushed pretty hard to get the RPMs from Publican fixed > upstream and approved by Fedora. I'm not sure what else we need to > do to just spit out the RPMs as I thought all our problems had been > solved. I was under the impression that we were going after the RPM naming issue, but hadn't thought about multiple language RPMs. Based on last night's meeting I'm not sure we even know whether we will produce single-language RPMs or multiple like we do now. And then of course there is the issue of multiple docs in one RPM with different targets (as in f-r-n currently). > I didn't think we were just going to point to an html. Errr... are we > talking about local html or pointing it to a website somewhere? Ahh context. Currently, we use yelp to display the release notes and about-fedora. I gathered last night there was some concensus to move away from that toward HTML on disk and a menu item pointing to it. Publican will do that in a Publican-generated RPM, but it will do that for one language and it isn't at all clear that if multiple languages are installed it knows how to change that entry for the currently logged in language (as yelp does). Even if we decide on one RPM per language, I think we need to address the case of multiple languages installed on one PC. Perhaps Publican magically deals with all this, but I haven't seen any evidence so I'm skeptical. Should it? Absolutely! But it does seem like it may be asking a lot. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 18:09:37 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:09:37 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504062] Update helping-hand docs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041809.n54I9b5D003239@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504062 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED CC| |eric at christensenplace.us QAContact|kwade at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us Flag| |needinfo?(kwade at redhat.com) --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-04 14:09:36 EDT --- What exactly is a "helper doc"? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 18:16:53 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:16:53 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504063] Toolchain next steps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041816.n54IGrvG005206@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504063 --- Comment #4 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-04 14:16:53 EDT --- Maybe we can get Jeff on the phone one day soon and figure this out. I think being able to talk to him and maybe some of the packagers (Jens?) on at the same time might be a good idea. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 18:20:25 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:20:25 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504067] Student mentoring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041820.n54IKPA0021838@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504067 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED QAContact|kwade at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us Flag| |needinfo?(kwade at redhat.com) --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-04 14:20:23 EDT --- Where are we with the student mentoring? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 18:21:41 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:21:41 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504069] Docs to fedorahosted.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041821.n54ILfpU022179@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504069 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED QAContact|kwade at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us Flag| |needinfo?(kwade at redhat.com) --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-04 14:21:39 EDT --- What other documents are we waiting for? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 18:19:22 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:19:22 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504064] Publican migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041819.n54IJMhl021265@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504064 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED CC| |eric at christensenplace.us AssignedTo|kwade at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us Flag| |needinfo? --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-04 14:19:20 EDT --- I think we need to get a list of guides that are out there and figure out which ones are in Publican and which are not. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu Jun 4 18:25:20 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 14:25:20 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504070] Update Fedora Documentation components in BZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906041825.n54IPKcB007484@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504070 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED CC|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us, | |stickster at gmail.com AssignedTo|kwade at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-04 14:25:19 EDT --- In progress at this time. Presented complete list to f-docs-l yesterday and received feedback. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Jun 4 20:05:22 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 16:05:22 -0400 Subject: Docs Decisions for F12 Message-ID: <588D933520DB42C0B167C05AB304323D@Aidan> I just added a few comments to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 and noticed some from stickster and rudi I hadn't read before. I would encourage everyone to revisit that page and comment if appropriate. If we can get as much material as possible out in the open before SELF than FAD can be that much more productive. As Eric reminded us yesterday, F12 is fast upon us. --McD From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 4 21:05:32 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 17:05:32 -0400 Subject: Checking isos with sha - small wrinkle In-Reply-To: <20090604210153.GI28808@inocybe.localdomain> References: <4A27F709.4080807@fedoraproject.org> <20090604210153.GI28808@inocybe.localdomain> Message-ID: <1244149532.4411.3.camel@thunder> On Thu, 2009-06-04 at 17:01 -0400, Todd Zullinger wrote: > Eric Christensen wrote: > >> That's as I would expect, since that advice applies to the current > >> stable release. Hopefully the docs team has an update queued to note > >> the use of sha256sum when F-11 is released. > > > > If someone would open a ticket in BZ (under Fedora Documentation, > > README-BURNING-ISOS) that would be helpful. > > Done: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/504228 > Thank you! Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jaa at redhat.com Fri Jun 5 02:57:16 2009 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Thu, 04 Jun 2009 22:57:16 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Tour Message-ID: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> Hey All, I've been working on the Fedora 1 Tour page. Link is here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour Can anyone tell me how they like it and if they think it is lacking anything? Thanks, Jack From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Jun 5 04:43:31 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 00:43:31 -0400 Subject: Security Guide available in PDF Message-ID: <1244177011.4429.2.camel@thunder> I just created the Security Guide in PDF and posted it to docs.fp.o[1]. Along with the minor changes I made to Feedback.xml earlier today everything should be up at the next sync period. The index page should show HTML (en-US) and PDF (en-US) when everything syncs so you can watch for that. [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/security-guide/ -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks at fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 5 10:20:48 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 06:20:48 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906051020.n55AKm0T002650@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Simon Birtwistle changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |simon at zikula.org --- Comment #2 from Simon Birtwistle 2009-06-05 06:20:47 EDT --- I am free to implement the CMS as soon as packaging is complete - my final year exams concluded yesterday. I haven't spoken to David for a while about how packaging is going though... -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Fri Jun 5 10:34:13 2009 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 06:34:13 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora 11 Tour In-Reply-To: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> References: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, Jack Aboutboul wrote: > Hey All, > > I've been working on the Fedora 1 Tour page. Link is here: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour > > Can anyone tell me how they like it and if they think it is lacking > anything? more cowbell. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 11:34:51 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 07:34:51 -0400 Subject: gnote - description - less vs fewer In-Reply-To: <4A27EB68.6020908@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A27EB68.6020908@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090605113451.GD14154@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 09:12:32PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi > > # yum info gnote > > "Gnote is a desktop note-taking application which is simple and easy > to use. It lets you organize your notes intelligently by allowing > you to easily link ideas together with Wiki style interconnects. It > is a port of Tomboy to C++ and consumes less resources." > > Should I have used fewer instead? The rule for "less" versus "fewer" in English is: * If you can count the following noun, use "fewer." Typically plural nouns will use "fewer." * If you can't count the noun, use "less." Typically singular nouns, or nouns of indefinite quantity, will use "less." Examples: * I have a lot less time than I used to have. * There seem to be fewer spare hours in each day. Although the *idea* of resources in your sentence is sort of hazy and general, which would point to "less," the fact is that it's a plural noun and in the strict sense, "fewer" is correct. -- Paul W. Frields ("Grammar fascist at work!") http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 11:40:36 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 07:40:36 -0400 Subject: Docs Decisions for F12 In-Reply-To: <588D933520DB42C0B167C05AB304323D@Aidan> References: <588D933520DB42C0B167C05AB304323D@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090605114036.GE14154@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 04:05:22PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > I just added a few comments to > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 > > and noticed some from stickster and rudi I hadn't read before. I would > encourage everyone to revisit that page and comment if appropriate. If we > can get as much material as possible out in the open before SELF than FAD > can be that much more productive. > > As Eric reminded us yesterday, F12 is fast upon us. Taking a moment to pass on a really good tip someone gave me: 1. Go the wiki, log in, and click on "my preferences" at the top right. 2. Click on the "Watchlist" tab. 3. Make sure that "Add pages I edit to my watchlist" is selected. I would venture to say this option is *vital* for anyone working on Docs, or the wiki. If you work on a page you want to know if someone changes it after you're gone so you can make sure things stay consistent. I would also highly recommend adding pages you care about to your permanent watchlist. To do that: 1. On the upper right, click "my watchlist." 2. Click the small link under the page title that reads, "Edit raw watchlist." 3. Add page titles to the list (e.g. "DocsProject/WorkFlow") When any page on your watchlist is edited you'll get an email. Of course, you should set up a filter that puts those emails somewhere useful. I have a folder in my email account so all the wiki edits stay together and I can examine them all consecutively and quickly. Anybody else have handy tips for wiki minding? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 12:17:10 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 08:17:10 -0400 Subject: Why we should run away from n*100 packages per doc Message-ID: <20090605121710.GH14154@localhost.localdomain> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/rel-eng/2009-June/005572.html You can see the same discussion occurring on the rel-eng list concerning the TeX Live 2008/9 packaging. Hopefully it will save everyone needless frustration if we instead pursue getting the Zikula CMS set up so any user can simply click his way to a specific RPM for his document and language. Putting these in the Fedora repository is simply begging for conflict. Along with that CMS we should be planning for how to *make sure users find that site.* -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jun 5 12:24:02 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:54:02 +0530 Subject: Fedora 11 Spins Announcement Message-ID: <4A290E62.7090507@fedoraproject.org> Hi, There has been a recent discussion in fedora-spins list about having a separate announcement for Fedora 11 Spins highlighting all the spins following the official Fedora 11 announcement. Anyone interested in working on this? Rahul From tmz at pobox.com Thu Jun 4 21:01:53 2009 From: tmz at pobox.com (Todd Zullinger) Date: Thu, 4 Jun 2009 17:01:53 -0400 Subject: Checking isos with sha - small wrinkle In-Reply-To: References: <4A27F709.4080807@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090604210153.GI28808@inocybe.localdomain> Eric Christensen wrote: >> That's as I would expect, since that advice applies to the current >> stable release. ?Hopefully the docs team has an update queued to note >> the use of sha256sum when F-11 is released. > > If someone would open a ticket in BZ (under Fedora Documentation, > README-BURNING-ISOS) that would be helpful. Done: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/504228 -- Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ There is no pleasure in having nothing to do; the fun is in having lots to do and not doing it. -- Mary Wilson Little -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 542 bytes Desc: not available URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Jun 5 13:44:06 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:44:06 -0400 Subject: Why we should run away from n*100 packages per doc References: <20090605121710.GH14154@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <68B5EFEBCA2D43A5BD4092FDEC3A237C@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 8:17 AM Subject: Why we should run away from n*100 packages per doc > http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/rel-eng/2009-June/005572.html > > You can see the same discussion occurring on the rel-eng list > concerning the TeX Live 2008/9 packaging. Hopefully it will save > everyone needless frustration if we instead pursue getting the Zikula > CMS set up so any user can simply click his way to a specific RPM for > his document and language. Putting these in the Fedora repository is > simply begging for conflict. IMO, a perfect solution would allow a user to install documentation that he wants in his own language, or in the combination of languages he wants installed. Given that there are over 1000 possible combinations of single language/document/format, that would add a lot of packages to a PackageKit that is already burdened with far too many packages to be useful (but that is another issue). A single RPM per document/language/format seems an ideal approach, but clearly adding all those packages to the repositories is not a good answer. Doing something with Zikula does seem like a possible solution. All those RPMs wouldn't seem so daunting if you chould choose your format, languge and document independently. > Along with that CMS we should be planning for how to *make sure users > find that site.* As well as docs.fp.o. I suspect a lot of the time a user would just as soon read the documentation online if he knew how to find it. Seems like we need an online and an install choice, or perhaps that is at the bottom; after choosing document/language/format the user has the choice of reading or installing. Or, perhaps installing and reading are different thought processes, and the choice is at the top (which give us more to maintain, tho). Maybe what we do is add an install choice in docs.fp.o (or more likely it's successor), and a menu choice to view documentation. All sorts of potential variants with good and bad of each. Those that seem the most user friendly also seem like the most work! --McD From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Jun 5 13:29:42 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 09:29:42 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Tour References: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Aboutboul" To: "For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base" ; ; "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:57 PM Subject: Fedora 11 Tour > Hey All, > > I've been working on the Fedora 1 Tour page. Link is here: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour > > Can anyone tell me how they like it and if they think it is lacking > anything? The Plymouth screencast is probably one of the most exciting parts of that tour. Unfortunately, as an "oddball" format to perhaps 90% of the potential audience, it is really only viewable to the converted. I don't know if there is an unencumbered format that would be usable to most of the potential customer base, but it seems a shame to keep such a cool feature a secret. Actually, I think a few more screencasts could add a lot, but again, to really be valuable they need to be viewable. --McD From oglesbyzm at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 14:01:53 2009 From: oglesbyzm at gmail.com (Zach Oglesby) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 16:01:53 +0200 Subject: Fedora 11 Tour In-Reply-To: References: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090605140153.GA3656@zaphod.zach.tk> On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 09:29:42AM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > The Plymouth screencast is probably one of the most exciting parts of > that tour. Unfortunately, as an "oddball" format to perhaps 90% of the > potential audience, it is really only viewable to the converted. > > I don't know if there is an unencumbered format that would be usable to > most of the potential customer base, but it seems a shame to keep such a > cool feature a secret. Actually, I think a few more screencasts could > add a lot, but again, to really be valuable they need to be viewable. > > --McD > Not just to the converted anyone with Firefox 3.5 or Opera (newer) or midori can view it. -- Zach Oglesby GPG Key: 1378F79F http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Zoglesby -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 14:06:41 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 10:06:41 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Tour In-Reply-To: References: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090605140641.GC14154@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 09:29:42AM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Aboutboul" > To: "For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base" > ; ; > "For participants of the Documentation Project" > > Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:57 PM > Subject: Fedora 11 Tour > > >> Hey All, >> >> I've been working on the Fedora 1 Tour page. Link is here: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour >> >> Can anyone tell me how they like it and if they think it is lacking >> anything? > > The Plymouth screencast is probably one of the most exciting parts of that > tour. Unfortunately, as an "oddball" format to perhaps 90% of the > potential audience, it is really only viewable to the converted. > > I don't know if there is an unencumbered format that would be usable to > most of the potential customer base, but it seems a shame to keep such a > cool feature a secret. Actually, I think a few more screencasts could add > a lot, but again, to really be valuable they need to be viewable. Ogg is completely usable by most of the potential customer base. I added links to the page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour#Screencasts -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Jun 5 14:24:15 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 19:54:15 +0530 Subject: Fedora 11 Tour In-Reply-To: <20090605140641.GC14154@localhost.localdomain> References: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> <20090605140641.GC14154@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A292A8F.2000403@fedoraproject.org> On 06/05/2009 07:36 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Ogg is completely usable by most of the potential customer base. I > added links to the page: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour#Screencasts It would be useful to upload it to YouTube (accepts ogg as input) and throw in a link to that. Not a big issue. Rahul From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Jun 5 14:40:04 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 10:40:04 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Tour References: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> <20090605140641.GC14154@localhost.localdomain> <4A292A8F.2000403@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <24C8C1869A9B430883C47342FF2ECD6E@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Sundaram" To: Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:24 AM Subject: Re: Fedora 11 Tour > On 06/05/2009 07:36 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> >> Ogg is completely usable by most of the potential customer base. I >> added links to the page: >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour#Screencasts > > It would be useful to upload it to YouTube (accepts ogg as input) and > throw in a link to that. Not a big issue. Now that is a good idea. Especially since those YouTube links are so pervasive, it would look more "normal" and be acccessible not only to viewers of the tour, but also likely to draw bunches of hits from people searching YouTube. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Fri Jun 5 15:40:33 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 11:40:33 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Tour In-Reply-To: <24C8C1869A9B430883C47342FF2ECD6E@Aidan> References: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> <20090605140641.GC14154@localhost.localdomain> <4A292A8F.2000403@fedoraproject.org> <24C8C1869A9B430883C47342FF2ECD6E@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090605154033.GB23969@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 10:40:04AM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Sundaram" > > To: > Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 10:24 AM > Subject: Re: Fedora 11 Tour > > >> On 06/05/2009 07:36 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >>> >>> Ogg is completely usable by most of the potential customer base. I >>> added links to the page: >>> >>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour#Screencasts >> >> It would be useful to upload it to YouTube (accepts ogg as input) and >> throw in a link to that. Not a big issue. > > Now that is a good idea. Especially since those YouTube links are so > pervasive, it would look more "normal" and be acccessible not only to > viewers of the tour, but also likely to draw bunches of hits from people > searching YouTube. Exactly. Tagging would be appreciated to make sure it turns up well in searches. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From jaa at redhat.com Fri Jun 5 16:50:24 2009 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Fri, 05 Jun 2009 12:50:24 -0400 Subject: Plans for Monday and Release Day Message-ID: <4A294CD0.7090000@redhat.com> Hello All, Cross posting this to a couple of lists, so that we can mobilize as many people on the ground as possible. Tuesday is sure to be a very big day for all of us. I'm gonna try and lay out some of the activities that are being planned for Monday, to build buzz, and then for Tuesday, release day. If you have any comments, of course, please reply. *Monday, 15:00 UTC Time, 10:00AM Eastern Time * Start releasing some media, including a couple of interviews and the Fedora 11 Tour, which can be found here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour I need a volunteer to submit it to the various social news sites, and then I will follow up and coordinate with people to digg it/pick it up/tag it, etc. **It is important that we all put in effort to take a couple minutes to participate in these things, because alot of effort goes into posting this stuff up and if we don't do it, its a tremendous missed opportunity to build buzz.** For all those involved in the News Distribution Network, or if you want to be involved, please help spread these around to sites in your native language and add news source to the list linked of the main page. A list is here is linked off the main page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_news_distribution_network *Tuesday, 15:00 UTC Time, 10:00AM Eastern Time *Fedora 11 is released. Fedora News Distribution Network guys are supposed to spring into action. We have a press archive set up at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive/F11 If you come across something interesting, whether in english, or whatever language is your preference, please feel free to add it there. This will be a great resource is tracking what press coverage looks like on release day, and the in the days afterwards, when people finally get F11 installed and up and running. Also, for the marketing and ambassadors teams, will be on irc all day long in #fedora-mktg, in constant contact, posting whatever we find on the net and paying attention to conversations taking place so that we can counteract as much FUD as possible. For anyone doing that, please be courteous in your replies, we are all representatives of the community and there is no reason to get involved in flame wars. Please add stuff, as I am sure there is more stuff to do. Otherwise, I wish everyone a good weekend and look forward to Tuesday which is going to be an awesome day. Jack From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Sun Jun 7 01:52:58 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2009 21:52:58 -0400 Subject: Docs FAD at the Southeast Linuxfest Message-ID: Just a quick note on the Docs FAD on June 14th that will follow the Southeast Linuxfest in Clemson SC. We have 8 attendees listed thus far: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF And I am sure that we will have even more show up, and hopefully a few recruited the day before. We have a significant contingent of contributors that are unable to attend. We will use Docs Project's conference bridge (2008) on Fedora Talk to let those join the conversation. This is particularly important during the Docs Decisions for F12. Currently my proposed itinerary is: (times below are eastern) 9:00 AM - 10:30 AM - Docs Decisions for F12 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 10:30 AM - 11:30 AM A non-translator's introduction to the POT/PO model 11:30 AM - Balance of the day working on zikula modules and getting packaging instruction from Ian Weller If there's demand, we'll get Paul to provide an introduction to DocBook. as well. If you don't like this schedule, please feel free to suggest changes If you are remotely interested in the Docs Project, and are in the southeast, please consider attending, it will be a huge benefit for you and the project. From empoweringlinux at gmail.com Sun Jun 7 07:45:15 2009 From: empoweringlinux at gmail.com (Sri Ram) Date: Sun, 7 Jun 2009 13:15:15 +0530 Subject: Introduction Message-ID: <2d2e2de00906070045n59142dafr4094b667a02aac7@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I am Sri Ram. I working with fedora community for a long period. i am interested in contributing to Fedora Documentation Project. I am documented the fedora 10 release announcement for my LUG. Link : https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/7/72/Fedora10_Release_Announcement_KKLUG.pdf Details: Name : Sri Ram IRC Nickname : emplinux -- Regards Sriram B -- Fedora Ambassador - India empoweringlinux at fedoraproject.org Key fingerprint : B3FF F8AE 4576 1CB2 51E0 1118 5B70 C4EB A575 A19A -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mmcgrath at redhat.com Mon Jun 8 15:07:07 2009 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 10:07:07 -0500 (CDT) Subject: More agressive caching Message-ID: We'll be caching more aggressively tonight for tomorrow's F-11 release. This will mostly have impact on the wiki. It basically means you might have to wait for several minutes before a change you make to the wiki to actually show up. This is a temporary measure and will return to normal a day or two after the launch and load on the servers has gone down. -Mike From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Jun 8 16:31:02 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:31:02 -0400 Subject: Install Guide on docs.fp.o Message-ID: I saw Rudi committed a bunch of bits to docs.fp.o but the webpage still says Preview and the document is still marked "Draft". What needs to happen to fix this prior to the release? I'd like to have something on the Planet tonight if at all possible. Maybe we can put together something to put on the announcement list as well. Eric From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 8 16:36:01 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 12:36:01 -0400 Subject: Install Guide on docs.fp.o In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: we just need to tag it live On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:31 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > I saw Rudi committed a bunch of bits to docs.fp.o but the webpage > still says Preview and the document is still marked "Draft". ?What > needs to happen to fix this prior to the release? ?I'd like to have > something on the Planet tonight if at all possible. ?Maybe we can put > together something to put on the announcement list as well. > > Eric > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Jun 8 20:01:59 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 16:01:59 -0400 Subject: [Bug 164648] Need docs in more formats on web site In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906082001.n58K1xmW005861@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=164648 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED CC| |kwade at redhat.com AssignedTo|kwade at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us QAContact|stickster at gmail.com |fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Flag| |needinfo? --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-08 16:01:58 EDT --- So... if we provide a multi-page HTML, single-page HTML, and a PDF for each of our guides, would that be good? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the QA contact for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Jun 8 20:15:03 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 16:15:03 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504065] Team per document In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906082015.n58KF3IJ011283@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504065 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED CC| |eric at christensenplace.us AssignedTo|kwade at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 8 20:30:18 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 8 Jun 2009 16:30:18 -0400 Subject: Docs FAD at the Southeast Linuxfest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090608203018.GM6487@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, Jun 06, 2009 at 09:52:58PM -0400, David Nalley wrote: > Just a quick note on the Docs FAD on June 14th that will follow the > Southeast Linuxfest in Clemson SC. > > We have 8 attendees listed thus far: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF > > And I am sure that we will have even more show up, and hopefully a few > recruited the day before. > > We have a significant contingent of contributors that are unable to > attend. We will use Docs Project's conference bridge (2008) on Fedora > Talk to let those join the conversation. This is particularly > important during the Docs Decisions for F12. > Currently my proposed itinerary is: (times below are eastern) > 9:00 AM - 10:30 AM - Docs Decisions for F12 > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 > 10:30 AM - 11:30 AM A non-translator's introduction to the POT/PO model > 11:30 AM - Balance of the day working on zikula modules and getting > packaging instruction from Ian Weller > > If there's demand, we'll get Paul to provide an introduction to > DocBook. as well. > > If you don't like this schedule, please feel free to suggest changes > > If you are remotely interested in the Docs Project, and are in the > southeast, please consider attending, it will be a huge benefit for > you and the project. When I look at the list of decision tasks, I think they may take longer than 90 minutes total. Other than that, no objections! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From mairin at linuxgrrl.com Fri Jun 5 13:52:26 2009 From: mairin at linuxgrrl.com (=?iso-8859-1?Q?M=E1ir=EDn_Duffy?=) Date: Fri, 5 Jun 2009 06:52:26 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Fedora 11 Tour In-Reply-To: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> References: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> Message-ID: <836262.98515.qm@web50910.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi, Is Fedora Community considered an F11 feature? If so, I have bling you could link to: a two-part podcast [1] & a screenshot tour of Fedora Community [2]. ~m [1] http://fedorapeople.org/groups/designteam/Projects/Fedora%20Community/Podcast%20/fcomm_podcast_part1.ogg & http://fedorapeople.org/groups/designteam/Projects/Fedora%20Community/Podcast%20/fcomm_podcast_part2.ogg [2] https://publictest16.fedoraproject.org/community/pages/tour/ but it will be at http://admin.fedoraproject.org/community/pages/tour when FC goes live ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jack Aboutboul > I've been working on the Fedora 1 Tour page. Link is here: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_tour > > Can anyone tell me how they like it and if they think it is lacking anything? From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 14:41:39 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 10:41:39 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Tour In-Reply-To: <836262.98515.qm@web50910.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <4A28898C.9070505@redhat.com> <836262.98515.qm@web50910.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <20090609144139.GB12907@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 06:52:26AM -0700, M?ir?n Duffy wrote: > Is Fedora Community considered an F11 feature? > > If so, I have bling you could link to: a two-part podcast [1] & a > screenshot tour of Fedora Community [2]. I added the podcasts to the page -- as for the screenshot tour, I'm worried about smashing the server on which J5 and Luke are currently working, so I didn't link that. We can add it once the app is deployed where the load is handled better, though. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From cpanceac at gmail.com Tue Jun 9 16:48:35 2009 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Tue, 9 Jun 2009 19:48:35 +0300 Subject: odd? Message-ID: here http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11/en-US/ we can read: Rahul SundaramLinux Kernel ... Karsten WadeKernel it's a bug or a feature? -- Linux counter #213090 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 9 21:53:22 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 09 Jun 2009 17:53:22 -0400 Subject: Guide table and BZ In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1244584402.32483.8.camel@thunder> On Wed, 2009-06-03 at 13:40 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > If you haven't updated the Guide Table[1] lately, please take a look > at it and see if you can provide any updates. > Thanks, > Eric I've moved the table I emailed to the wiki[1] and sorted it out into categories based on other people's input. Please look over it and comment/move stuff as necessary. I want to have this finished during tomorrow's meeting. Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 10 21:27:42 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:27:42 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder Message-ID: <1244669262.4292.0.camel@thunder> REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks at fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From awilliam at redhat.com Thu Jun 11 00:35:28 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:35:28 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction (Adam Williamson) Message-ID: <1244680528.2632.14.camel@adam.local.net> Hi, guys. Some of you may know me already, others not :). I joined RH at the start of this year, in the Fedora QA team, as a sort of community cheerleader. I've found myself contributing to a lot of documentation-related stuff - I sent in a few items for the F11 release notes, and I'm the main writer / maintainer for the F11 common bugs page, at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F11_bugs . We just had an interesting discussion on fedora-test-list: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00345.html which touches on lots of documentation issues, and led to me suggesting that those of us in QA / IRC support / forum support etc roles who are interested in documenting various types of issues should bite the bullet and join the documentation group, so here I am! As that thread suggests I'd particularly like to help improve co-ordination between the docs team, QA, Bugzappers, and front-line support volunteers like the people who help others in the forums and IRC, to try and make sure we have a coherent plan for documenting useful information for regular users in a small set of canonical locations, and we all consistently direct people to those locations when they ask about such issues. But I'm happy to pitch in in other ways too! I don't have any kind of formal documentation training, but somehow I wind up writing a lot of the stuff. :) As well as the notes I submitted for F11 and the common bugs page, I wrote a lot of stuff for Mandriva, when I worked there: I did a large chunk of the release documentation for Mandriva 2007 Spring, 2008, 2008 Spring and 2009, including most of the writing for the Release Notes, Release Tour, Errata (like common bugs) and Reviewers' Guide for each release. see for e.g.: http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2008.1 http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2008.1_Tour http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2008.1_Notes http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2008.1_Errata As you may have already noticed, I also have a tendency to write too much! GPG key fingerprint is 4B7B E7D9 90EA 124B 2F47 4BF6 0BC5 71C4 C136 5CF0. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From oglesbyzm at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 00:50:05 2009 From: oglesbyzm at gmail.com (Zach Oglesby) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 02:50:05 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction (Adam Williamson) In-Reply-To: <1244680528.2632.14.camel@adam.local.net> References: <1244680528.2632.14.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <20090611005005.GA3341@zaphod.zach.tk> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 05:35:28PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > Hi, guys. Some of you may know me already, others not :). I joined RH at > the start of this year, in the Fedora QA team, as a sort of community > cheerleader. I've found myself contributing to a lot of > documentation-related stuff - I sent in a few items for the F11 release > notes, and I'm the main writer / maintainer for the F11 common bugs > page, at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F11_bugs . We just had an > interesting discussion on fedora-test-list: > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-June/msg00345.html > > which touches on lots of documentation issues, and led to me suggesting > that those of us in QA / IRC support / forum support etc roles who are > interested in documenting various types of issues should bite the bullet > and join the documentation group, so here I am! I think this is great, I had a few bugs pointed out to me by QA on this release. > As you may have already noticed, I also have a tendency to write too > much! No such thing if you ask me! -- Zach Oglesby GPG Key: 1378F79F http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Zoglesby -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From awilliam at redhat.com Thu Jun 11 00:56:01 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:56:01 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction (Adam Williamson) In-Reply-To: <20090611005005.GA3341@zaphod.zach.tk> References: <1244680528.2632.14.camel@adam.local.net> <20090611005005.GA3341@zaphod.zach.tk> Message-ID: <1244681761.2632.15.camel@adam.local.net> On Thu, 2009-06-11 at 02:50 +0200, Zach Oglesby wrote: > > As you may have already noticed, I also have a tendency to write too > > much! > > No such thing if you ask me! Wait until you've read a few more of my emails ;) I've been told they make great sleep aids. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Jun 11 05:53:49 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:53:49 -0400 Subject: Meeting Log 2009-06-11 (Z) Message-ID: <38C4AC1CD08B4A79942C855D499EFC2D@Aidan> **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed Jun 10 19:50:07 2009 Jun 10 20:00:52 Jun 10 20:00:53 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting Jun 10 20:01:00 Roll Call! Jun 10 20:01:01 * Sparks is here Jun 10 20:01:11 * jjmcd ici Jun 10 20:01:15 * rudi is here Jun 10 20:01:44 * sgodsell has quit ("Leaving") Jun 10 20:02:31 * quaid is here! Jun 10 20:02:33 * Sparks wonders if we need to change the time, again. Jun 10 20:02:48 I thought this was the best one available? Jun 10 20:03:05 Yeah, me too... except for people don't show up. Jun 10 20:04:15 hmm, well Jun 10 20:04:33 * Sparks checks his breath. Jun 10 20:04:39 Lessee, ianweller, zoglesby on docs Jun 10 20:04:43 so, let me say btw ... Jun 10 20:04:53 awesome release for Docs Jun 10 20:05:02 I'm very impressed, and glad to be out of a job around here :D Jun 10 20:05:42 * quaid saw some praise in response to his praise ... here: Jun 10 20:05:53 http://iquaid.org/2009/06/10/and-i-didnt-have-to-do-a-thing/#comments Jun 10 20:06:07 quaid: My blood pressure has come down a bit. I hope jjmcd's has too. Jun 10 20:06:18 Not as much as it needs to Jun 10 20:06:47 It is now ARRL reporting season, plus still waiting to find out what my car is gonna cost me Jun 10 20:07:14 Yikes. Jun 10 20:07:26 Okay, let's get started and hopefully the rest will join in soon. Jun 10 20:07:37 quaid: Can you get the log tonight, please? Jun 10 20:08:02 * jstephan__ (n=jstephan at p5B327A34.dip.t-dialin.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:08:26 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - [[FAD SELF 2009]] <-- ke4qqq Jun 10 20:08:33 ke4qqq: Are you here??? Jun 10 20:08:49 I'm guessing not. Jun 10 20:08:51 * radsy (n=irc at unaffiliated/radsy) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:09:45 Okay. This weekend is the SouthEast LinuxFest in Clemson, SC. If you are going please visit the wiki page [FAD SELF 2009] and sign up. Jun 10 20:09:59 Saturday is SELF and Sunday is the Fedora Activity Day Jun 10 20:10:05 * joat (n=joat at ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:10:07 * dychen_ (n=dingyich at d122-104-167-65.rdl18.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:10:37 We will be linking the conference room up to the Talk server so people can dial into the conference room (2008) and communicate with us. Jun 10 20:10:43 ke4qqq mentioned that he wasn't likely to make tonight, fwiw Jun 10 20:10:56 So mostly Sunday then? Jun 10 20:10:59 what's on the FAD agenda? what is the time window youll be there? Jun 10 20:11:26 We will also have an IRC channel (maybe just in #fedora-docs) but it might be a little difficult to do a face-to-face and IRC but someone will be monitoring. Jun 10 20:11:37 * zoglesby is here Jun 10 20:11:49 jjmcd: The FAD is on Sunday. Jun 10 20:12:09 Didn't I see a sked somewhere? Jun 10 20:12:10 FAD Activities include: Jun 10 20:12:17 * F12 and beyond - issues central to the future of the Docs Project Jun 10 20:12:20 * Packaging instruction (provided by Ian Weller ) Jun 10 20:12:23 * Working on Zikula - specifically packaging modules Jun 10 20:12:25 * A non-translator's introduction to the POT/PO model (Paul Frields) Jun 10 20:12:28 * Perhaps an introduction to DocBook if there is interest Jun 10 20:12:40 * constanton has quit ("Lost terminal") Jun 10 20:12:53 It looks like there are eight people signed up to be there. Jun 10 20:13:20 I plan on being there at least the first half of the day Jun 10 20:13:30 haven't signed up yet tho Jun 10 20:13:51 joat: Yeah, you've got a little drive ahead of you. Jun 10 20:14:11 I hope to be on sip Jun 10 20:14:14 The biggest thing that I plan on discussing is the F12 and beyond Jun 10 20:14:52 I'll make sure that an email gets sent to the list so people know what time we are starting and such. Jun 10 20:14:55 Some of those things should be recorded ... ianweller, stickster esp. Jun 10 20:15:06 Maybe we can figure out how to do an ogg (podcast?) of the meeting. Jun 10 20:15:22 jjmcd: I agree. Jun 10 20:15:34 jjmcd: good idea Jun 10 20:15:46 * zoglesby really needs to hear the packaging stuff Jun 10 20:15:53 If we are already going to be using the Talk server then maybe we can do the podcast thing and grab the audio. Jun 10 20:16:00 * mchua (n=mchua at nat-pool-128-89.olin.edu) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:16:11 I figure by F12 time I will have forgotten the pot/po Jun 10 20:16:21 mchua: Welcome! We are just discussing SELF and the FAD on Sunday. Jun 10 20:16:45 jjmcd: By F12 I hope that we don't have to remember how to do that convoluted way. Jun 10 20:17:01 Good point, so it will be totally new Jun 10 20:17:13 I hope it is point-and-click by then. Jun 10 20:17:13 Sparks -- Transifex 0.6 is not in the repo yet Jun 10 20:17:19 :( Jun 10 20:17:33 As soon as it is, we can nag infrastructure to upgrade Jun 10 20:17:39 rudi: is transifex going to fix our issues? Jun 10 20:17:40 rudi: Can you get a status report on that for next week's meeting? Jun 10 20:17:51 Sparks NP Jun 10 20:17:55 zoglesby, it will greatly simplify them Jun 10 20:18:01 yay! Jun 10 20:18:14 zoglesby - it will allow Translators to work directly with Publican's PO files Jun 10 20:18:31 So that we won't have to merge them for translation and split them afterwards to build Jun 10 20:18:55 It will also allow the translators to share their workload more easily (because different people can be working on different files) Jun 10 20:19:21 * lfoppiano has quit (Connection timed out) Jun 10 20:19:48 * cwickert has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Jun 10 20:20:23 Okay, anything else about SELF? Jun 10 20:20:28 * cwickert (n=chris at fedora/cwickert) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:21:34 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid Jun 10 20:21:40 quaid: Do you have an update on this? Jun 10 20:23:16 quaid: PING Jun 10 20:23:46 Well, he was here. Jun 10 20:23:52 He's in kalifornia, anything could happen there - earthquake, wildfire, mudslide Jun 10 20:24:17 We'll come back once he gets his head above... well, whatever has fallen on it from all that. Jun 10 20:24:22 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] Jun 10 20:24:30 good update! Jun 10 20:24:52 Sparks: sorry, distraction land Jun 10 20:25:05 * quaid is at the farmer's market Jun 10 20:25:08 Just wanted to point out that if you want it discussed at FAD and it applies to changes to the way we do business for F12 you should make sure it get in the wiki Jun 10 20:25:12 quaid: Really? Jun 10 20:25:22 sho'nuff Jun 10 20:25:31 quaid: Let's go back to your topic real quick so you can continue to squeeze the melons. Jun 10 20:25:38 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid Jun 10 20:25:52 * comraderaikov has quit (Remote closed the connection) Jun 10 20:26:28 sorry, I need another minute Jun 10 20:26:48 ok, back Jun 10 20:26:53 :) Jun 10 20:27:07 * comraderaikov (n=sseierse at pool-173-64-93-105.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:28:27 so far all seems lined up Jun 10 20:28:27 I wanted to talk with the contenet services group to ensure there is no hardship Jun 10 20:28:27 mhideo was on paternity leave, just got back and sent me a response right away Jun 10 20:28:28 positive response from him and rfontana about their needs; he is working up a plan by 19 June Jun 10 20:28:36 so meanwhile, knowing we aren't going to be a PITA for ECS, I'll Jun 10 20:28:42 start the plan via f-advisory-board Jun 10 20:28:57 because we want to cover all of *.fedoraproject.org/.* Jun 10 20:29:04 that is not explicitly licensed otherwise. Jun 10 20:29:18 +1 Jun 10 20:29:19 * neverho0d (n=psv at 62.68.142.1) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:29:42 as long as we don't run into problems in the f-a-b discussion, I'll have a project plan together to refence in that discussion, and we can roll based on that. Jun 10 20:30:01 I'll signal something when i submit my patch for the Publican Fedora brand pckage :) Jun 10 20:30:05 any questions? Jun 10 20:30:22 and by-sa 3.0 is the license we are going with? Jun 10 20:30:25 Do I need to be "present" for the f-a-b? Jun 10 20:30:44 zoglesby: yes, the part I have to double check is the 'ported/unported' part Jun 10 20:31:01 Sparks: you mean, in the discussion? probably not, but you can lurk :) Jun 10 20:31:12 Sounds like you have the bases covered Jun 10 20:31:22 quaid: Yeah, remind me when it is so I can lurk... Jun 10 20:31:25 quaid - any timeframe on that patch? Jun 10 20:32:17 rudi: well, I could pull something from my ear right now, but let me cook a plan with f-a-b first ... I want us to think out the ramifications Jun 10 20:32:30 it could be within a week, but that seems unlikely from past experience :) Jun 10 20:33:00 quaid -- sure, I was only asking because I have another change to make to the package, and was wondering if I should wait or not :) Jun 10 20:34:17 ah Jun 10 20:35:00 ok, I'll let f-docs-l know as soon as I kick of the f-a-b discussion Jun 10 20:35:15 and will also let y'all know the timeframe that develops. Jun 10 20:35:21 * quaid is eof Jun 10 20:35:23 * dreamer has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Jun 10 20:35:48 Anyone have anything else? Jun 10 20:36:00 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Calendar Jun 10 20:36:24 * dreamer (i=dreamer at 137.224.241.21) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:36:24 Okay, I still want to do this but I haven't had a chance to work on it. Maybe I'll have some time this weekend or next week. Jun 10 20:36:31 Questions or comments? Jun 10 20:36:50 Are you talking about the ical? Jun 10 20:36:59 Yes Jun 10 20:37:02 nope Jun 10 20:37:17 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd Jun 10 20:37:31 jjmcd: So... how's the RN coming? Jun 10 20:37:33 :) Jun 10 20:37:36 lol Jun 10 20:37:36 I need someone to push the zero day to docs.fp.o Jun 10 20:38:01 My web server is kind of screwy and I can't flip it to sandbox for a few days Jun 10 20:38:11 But all the updates in git Jun 10 20:38:20 If I can be added, I'll do it Jun 10 20:38:37 I've also got fixes for problems in Hebrew and Serbian (Latin) Jun 10 20:39:01 Oh good, one of the things I wanted to try was the hebrew thing but that is only like 2% translated Jun 10 20:39:31 I know, but I figured that we could at least demonstrate that we've got it under control :) Jun 10 20:39:36 * perspectival has quit ("Leaving.") Jun 10 20:39:55 That would be good Jun 10 20:39:58 * quaid has to drop connection, bbiafew Jun 10 20:40:42 I've got those ready to check in, but don't have the right permissions (I thought I did...) Jun 10 20:41:11 for cvsfedora? Jun 10 20:41:34 Just for the release-notes part, apparently. Jun 10 20:41:53 rudi: Get with me after the meeting and let me see if I can remember how to do it. Jun 10 20:41:55 I've been able to check in install-guide and user-guide Jun 10 20:41:58 Sparks - Ta Jun 10 20:42:08 Okay, anything else on the RNs? Jun 10 20:42:10 Well, it is only the one group Jun 10 20:42:28 jjmcd: There are additional permissions in the CVS Jun 10 20:42:33 apparently not. Jun 10 20:42:39 I get "Access denied: rlandmann is not in ACL for web/html/docs/release-notes" Jun 10 20:42:39 ahhh Jun 10 20:42:57 SO some more magic pixie dust needed Jun 10 20:43:01 Yeah... I just ventured in there last week... Jun 10 20:43:03 :D Jun 10 20:43:03 Yes Jun 10 20:43:10 I guess quaid gotta do that then Jun 10 20:43:21 I mean, give permissions Jun 10 20:43:33 jjmcd: I think I can do it, now. Jun 10 20:43:42 I think I was given the magic wand. Jun 10 20:44:00 Okay, anything else? Jun 10 20:44:03 ahhh interesting, you're not a sponsor on cvsfedora Jun 10 20:44:33 but acls could be different Jun 10 20:44:45 I think that's it Jun 10 20:45:01 I still need to do the merge/split so translators can work on zero day Jun 10 20:45:09 and then we'll make an update rpm Jun 10 20:45:23 jjmcd: It is different. Jun 10 20:46:18 Jun 10 20:46:21 Okay... let's move on. Jun 10 20:46:30 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Installation Guide <-- ke4qqq & rudi Jun 10 20:46:49 rudi: Any updates on this? Looks like everything hit on time! Jun 10 20:46:57 Well, now that F11 is out the door, I've got a whole heap of bugs to work on Jun 10 20:47:10 I plan to have those done in the next week or so Jun 10 20:47:52 Cool. Jun 10 20:48:03 So, we'll have a new edition shortly. Jun 10 20:48:12 rudi: Congrats to you and ke4qqq for a great guide. Jun 10 20:48:15 Ta Jun 10 20:48:28 Anything else? Jun 10 20:48:29 Got lots of great new stuff to come :) Jun 10 20:48:37 No -- that's it on the IG Jun 10 20:48:42 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Security Guide <-- radsy & sparks Jun 10 20:49:14 radsy: I need to convert some stuff from the wiki. Anything else? Jun 10 20:49:39 nothing on sec guide really, i'm busy with selinux services Jun 10 20:51:08 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on SELinux Guides <-- radsy Jun 10 20:51:16 radsy: So tell us about the selinux guides. Jun 10 20:51:33 ok, user-guide has a couple of translations done Jun 10 20:52:16 my @redhat contact for the services guide wants sendmail, postfix, spamassassin, clamav, squid, postgres, mysql, rsync, kvm included in the thing, so that should keep me out of trouble for a while... Jun 10 20:53:06 Good grief Jun 10 20:53:24 I'm glad you're writing it, I will look forward to reading it Jun 10 20:53:46 currently thrashing about with VMs testing these services out on F11 Jun 10 20:54:16 If I can get through my next milestone (in August) then I might be able to give you a few hours per week to help do research or whatnot if you need it. Jun 10 20:55:13 Any other questions/comments on the SELinux guide? Jun 10 20:55:24 * so_solid_moo has quit (Excess Flood) Jun 10 20:55:45 * so_solid_moo (n=nmoo at barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:55:46 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Bugzilla Component Changes [https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table] Jun 10 20:55:49 * so_solid_moo has quit (Excess Flood) Jun 10 20:55:58 Okay, last topic of the night... Jun 10 20:56:09 * so_solid_moo (n=nnmoo at barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:56:19 Has everyone looked at the table I created on the wiki? Jun 10 20:56:25 Did we skip the User-Guide? Jun 10 20:56:44 * so_solid_moo has quit (Excess Flood) Jun 10 20:57:04 * so_solid_moo (n=nnnmoo at barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:57:40 rudi: We did... did you have something for that? Jun 10 20:58:15 Just to say that it's up on docs.fp.o now, in English, Bosnian, Spanish, and Dutch Jun 10 20:58:25 So, I'd like to take those guides and move them around according to that table. Jun 10 20:59:03 what table are you talking about? Jun 10 20:59:10 * Nirmal has quit ("Leaving") Jun 10 20:59:14 * Sparks points to the topic Jun 10 20:59:23 * sankarshan (n=sankarsh at fedora/sankarshan) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 20:59:26 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table Jun 10 20:59:38 Can I get some +1s? Jun 10 20:59:39 I see no table Jun 10 20:59:55 at least I was on the page Jun 10 21:00:08 I have some reservations, only a few Jun 10 21:00:33 zoglesby: Okay.. a list Jun 10 21:00:37 jjmcd: speak! Jun 10 21:00:39 We need a translation guide, is there an alternative? Jun 10 21:00:56 * translation-quick-start-guide - Helping new translators get started quickly with Fedora translations. Jun 10 21:01:17 The translators say they only use the one guide and not the other two. Jun 10 21:01:29 If that is an adequate replacement, then no reason for duplication Jun 10 21:01:34 Also, it seems to me we need something like a beginner's guide Jun 10 21:01:41 I've just assisted converting the TQSG to Publican Jun 10 21:02:03 * mep has quit (Remote closed the connection) Jun 10 21:02:12 rudi: Cool Jun 10 21:02:33 jjmcd - the User's Guide is pretty much a beginner's guide Jun 10 21:02:42 * User Guide Jun 10 21:03:10 I was thinking it might be a little heavy, should take a closer look tho Jun 10 21:03:37 what kind of stuff are you thinking about jjmcd ? Jun 10 21:04:09 Well, I haven't looked at the UG in real depth, but it seems like there is enough there to scare people away Jun 10 21:04:26 But I should really take a harder look before I say that Jun 10 21:04:27 It shouldn't... Jun 10 21:04:38 I'm sure the desktop guide is well out of date Jun 10 21:04:42 If there's scary stuff there, the solution is to rewrite or remove it Jun 10 21:04:56 Not to create another new book :) Jun 10 21:05:13 You don't think a beginner's guide is different from a user's guide? Jun 10 21:05:28 (don't necessarily like the desktop name_ Jun 10 21:05:30 * oshan (n=DarkM at 124.43.32.145) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 21:05:46 It may or may not be; depending who the User Guide is pitched at and what it covers. Jun 10 21:06:19 This one covers "Common desktop tasks" and assumes absolutely nothing (or that's the aim, at any rate) Jun 10 21:06:25 Can we come back to that one next week Sparks? The others I have no issue with Jun 10 21:07:02 Yep Jun 10 21:07:07 jjmcd: I see were you are coming from but I need to read the UG cover to cover as well Jun 10 21:07:08 No problem! Jun 10 21:07:31 Yeah, I think we want to work harder to be accessible, but maybe we are Jun 10 21:08:06 * stickster_afk is now known as stickster Jun 10 21:08:24 * Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving") Jun 10 21:08:27 jjmcd - just to clarify, I strongly agree with you that we need to have a doc to get people started with Fedora. I just want to avoid manual proliferation if we can avoid it Jun 10 21:08:41 I agree with that rudi Jun 10 21:08:51 :D Jun 10 21:09:17 One doc not on the list is the Accessibility doc Jun 10 21:09:37 rudi: It wasn't in BZ. :) Jun 10 21:09:40 seems like somewhere there used to be such a thing Jun 10 21:09:51 I think it may be in git Jun 10 21:09:54 Sparks - ah OK Jun 10 21:10:14 It is in git; and I converted it to Publican at the same time I did the other "minor" docs Jun 10 21:10:55 rudi: I can add that to BZ. Jun 10 21:11:00 were is the rpm-guide at? I don't see it on docs.fedoraproject.org Jun 10 21:11:15 Sparks +1 Jun 10 21:11:28 I'd like to start exploiting BZ for keeping track of our tasks. Jun 10 21:11:30 cool Jun 10 21:11:32 I think we need to get more eyes on it Jun 10 21:11:42 What goes in BZ and what goes in trac? Jun 10 21:12:02 jjmcd: It's up to you. Jun 10 21:12:06 Sparks: I love the BZ, idea it got my attention very fast Jun 10 21:12:28 From what I understand... many people use Trac for upstream stuff and BZ for customer issues Jun 10 21:12:35 or something like that Jun 10 21:12:48 zoglesby, if it weren't so bloody sleaux Jun 10 21:12:52 * warren (n=warren at redhat/wombat/warren) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 21:13:28 I've been playing with trac to ktrack some of out PRB-1 stuff, not sure I like it as well as BZ, but at least you don't have to wait forever Jun 10 21:13:43 sheesh the typing, must be getting late Jun 10 21:14:11 Yeah Jun 10 21:14:24 i thought that bugzilla was going to be part of the fedora community site, but they must have put that on hold Jun 10 21:15:22 Well, I don't see developers putting release notes comments in trac, so that is a clue Jun 10 21:15:34 jjmcd: But I can change massive amount of tickets at one time! I have visability into everything Docs. (Everyone does) Jun 10 21:15:38 * Sonar_Guy (n=Who at fedora/sonarguy) has joined #fedora-meeting Jun 10 21:15:45 So from a planning point of view it makes my life easier. Jun 10 21:16:18 yeah, I was somewhat confused by two similar things... although trac does have this timeline concept that bz lacks Jun 10 21:16:41 Yeah Jun 10 21:17:14 sorry but whats BZ? Jun 10 21:17:19 bugzilla Jun 10 21:17:26 oh thanks Jun 10 21:17:46 So I'll probably be exploiting BZ in the near future for items that are on our task lists. Jun 10 21:18:10 Makes sense. Perhaps when we get our heads around zikula it will have something better Jun 10 21:18:24 but that seems in the distant future Jun 10 21:18:37 yeah Jun 10 21:18:41 Okay, anything else? Jun 10 21:19:57 Anything else for the meeting? Jun 10 21:20:15 Anyone know the status of the SoC docbook editor? Jun 10 21:20:40 list chatter seems to have calmed down Jun 10 21:21:11 I haven't heard anything. Jun 10 21:21:36 I just got another FSD-212 - no rest for the wicked Jun 10 21:22:03 Anyone have anything else for the meeting? Jun 10 21:22:16 5 Jun 10 21:22:18 4 Jun 10 21:22:22 3 Jun 10 21:22:26 2 Jun 10 21:22:29 1 Jun 10 21:22:31 Thanks everyone for coming! Jun 10 21:22:32 Jun 10 21:22:32 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed Jun 10 21:22:48 2009 From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Jun 11 05:57:19 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 01:57:19 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction (Adam Williamson) References: <1244680528.2632.14.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <2056CB8A1D284213A6DCC7744993234F@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Williamson" To: Sent: Wednesday, June 10, 2009 8:35 PM Subject: Self-Introduction (Adam Williamson) > I don't have any kind of formal documentation training, but somehow I You're gonna feel mighty out of place amongst all these PhD's then ;-) Why don't you go ahead and apply for Docs membership on FAS. As we go along we'll figure out what hundred other groups you need. Welcome aboard. --McD From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 11 02:54:11 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 10 Jun 2009 19:54:11 -0700 Subject: adding users to be able to edit docs.fedoraproject.org (CVS ACLs) Message-ID: <20090611025411.GB5766@calliope.phig.org> After I added Rudi, I captured my session, edited it, wrapped some instructions, et voil?! https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Adding_users_to_Docs_publishing_CVS_ACLs You might note that this and a few other articles are in the ultra-cool [[Category:Docs Project how to]]: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project_how_to Rock on! - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ian at ianweller.org Thu Jun 11 05:09:33 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 00:09:33 -0500 Subject: adding users to be able to edit docs.fedoraproject.org (CVS ACLs) In-Reply-To: <20090611025411.GB5766@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090611025411.GB5766@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20090611050933.GA9478@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 07:54:11PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Adding_users_to_Docs_publishing_CVS_ACLs > > You might note that this and a few other articles are in the > ultra-cool [[Category:Docs Project how to]]: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project_how_to > > Rock on! > Indeed. I plan on using this as a shining example of the wiki now. -- Ian Weller GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cpanceac at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 09:41:44 2009 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:41:44 +0300 Subject: one text, two times Message-ID: at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11/en-US/sect-Release_Notes-System_Daemons.html "pm-utils The pm-utils power management utilities have been updated to 1.2.4. Some improvements have been made in logging and configuration." appears twice. -- Linux counter #213090 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cpanceac at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 09:45:07 2009 From: cpanceac at gmail.com (cornel panceac) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 12:45:07 +0300 Subject: one text, two times In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11/en-US/sect-Release_Notes-File_Systems.html "No grub support Currently *grub* doesn't support booting from an ext4 partition so make sure to utilize ext2/3 for /boot " appears twice, too. 2009/6/11 cornel panceac > at > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11/en-US/sect-Release_Notes-System_Daemons.html > > "pm-utils The pm-utils power management utilities have been updated to > 1.2.4. Some improvements have been made in logging and configuration." > appears twice. > > > -- > Linux counter #213090 > -- Linux counter #213090 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 12:38:28 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 08:38:28 -0400 Subject: one text, two times In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090611123828.GF3389@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Jun 11, 2009 at 12:45:07PM +0300, cornel panceac wrote: > at > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11/en-US/ > sect-Release_Notes-File_Systems.html > > "No grub support > Currently grub doesn't support booting from an ext4 partition so make sure to > utilize ext2/3 for /boot > " > > appears twice, too. Cornel, If you have time, would you mind filing these as bugs in Bugzilla? That tends to make them easier to track. You can use this link to make it easier: http://tinyurl.com/nej3u -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 14:06:49 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 10:06:49 -0400 Subject: From the desk of Jim Whitehurst... Message-ID: <20090611140649.GO3389@localhost.localdomain> http://press.redhat.com/2009/06/11/fedora-11-%e2%80%93-wow/ The URL above links to a wonderful note from Jim Whitehurst, President and CEO of Red Hat, congratulating the community on the release of Fedora 11. I think it's fantastic that Fedora gets such solid support from the very top ranks at Red Hat, directly on the company's press site. One thing that is always in the back of my head, as we work through all the various release bits, is that I know on release day Red Hat's CEO -- just like thousands of other people -- is going to download Fedora and take it for a ride. Although Jim singled out some specific areas in his blog that immediately impressed him about Fedora 11, from our phone conversations I know that he's very proud of the work every team in Fedora does. He is genuinely passionate about Fedora, and that's due to *your* superb efforts as part of our large extended family of contributors. Thanks to all of you for making this release such an incredible experience. I hope you enjoy Fedora 11 too, and I'm very excited about working with all of you on Fedora 12! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From domingobecker at gmail.com Thu Jun 11 18:25:14 2009 From: domingobecker at gmail.com (Domingo Becker) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:25:14 -0300 Subject: selinux user guide Message-ID: <4818cd80906111125j5e2671b0qd8c66ff507480472@mail.gmail.com> Would you please publish a draft of the SELinux User Guide in Spanish ? I think warrink would also want one in Dutch. kind regards Domingo Becker (es) From poelstra at redhat.com Fri Jun 12 01:57:33 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Thu, 11 Jun 2009 18:57:33 -0700 Subject: Attendees needed for Fedora 11 Retrospective on Tuesday June 16, 2009 @ 14:00 UTC Message-ID: <4A31B60D.4040402@redhat.com> Hi Docs Team, At your earliest convenience please fill the name of the additional person from your team that would like to attend the Fedora 11 Retrospective. This meeting will be a conference call to talk about the good and not so good of the Fedora 11 release cycle in with the hope that we can make Fedora 12 even better! If the team lead is not able to attend please substitute another person on the sign-up page below so that there are two people from each team. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Retrospective Thanks, John From geert.warrink at onsnet.nu Fri Jun 12 13:07:47 2009 From: geert.warrink at onsnet.nu (Geert Warrink) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 15:07:47 +0200 Subject: selinux user guide Message-ID: <1244812067.5943.5.camel@swan.localdomain> I do not need a Dutch draft of the selinux user guide. I made one using the directions posted by Ruediger. The Dutch version is already proofreaded and corrected. Geert Warrink Domingo Becker wrote: > Would you please publish a draft of the SELinux User Guide in > Spanish ? > I think warrink would also want one in Dutch. > kind regards > Domingo Becker (es) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Jun 12 17:15:56 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:15:56 -0400 Subject: Fedbot and meeting protocols Message-ID: <1244826956.4841.64.camel@localhost.localdomain> Thanks to nirik for making this possible... Starting next week we'll start using fedbot to capture our meeting minutes. Until we get everything straightened/figured out we'll still capture the meeting minutes manually. I'd like everyone to review the commands[1] for this bot so we can get the most out of this tool. I'd also like for everyone to take a look at the Meeting Protocols[2]. I'm not looking for strict adherence but it might make things go by faster especially when I'm changing topics. I might ask for questions or comments and wait a few seconds before changing topics while someone is typing a dissertation. It would help to remember to throw a ? or a ! to let me, or whoever is running the meeting, know that you have something to say. It will also help us stay on topic and on track. [1] http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Meeting_Protocol Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Jun 12 17:43:58 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 13:43:58 -0400 Subject: Docs FAD at the Southeast Linuxfest In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1244828638.4841.73.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-06-06 at 21:52 -0400, David Nalley wrote: > Just a quick note on the Docs FAD on June 14th that will follow the > Southeast Linuxfest in Clemson SC. I just updated the wiki page[1] to include the communication specifics during FAD at SELF. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF_2009 Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From r.landmann at redhat.com Fri Jun 12 22:02:35 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 08:02:35 +1000 Subject: Transifex 0.6 on its way Message-ID: <4A32D07B.4000602@redhat.com> Forwarded from f-t-l -- Yay! -------- Original Message -------- Subject: translate.fedoraproject.org changes Date: Fri, 12 Jun 2009 17:08:11 -0400 From: Ricky Zhou Reply-To: Fedora Translation Project List To: fedora-trans-list at redhat.com Hey, as Dimitris requested at https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1455, we're going to start getting rid of the old services under translate.fedoraproject.org. Today, we will be doing the first three items on the task list in the ticket, and testing for Transifex 0.6 on a test server will start soon after. Just giving everybody a heads up, and thanks to the Transifex team for all their work our translation infrastructure! Thanks, Ricky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Attached Message Part Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: Attached Message Part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Jun 13 14:36:27 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 10:36:27 -0400 Subject: Upgrade Doc? Message-ID: Do we need to make a single page guide for upgrading to the latest version of F? My question comes from the fact that at the Fedora table at SELF I noted a BUNCH of F10 disks on the table. I saw F11 disks on the table after the morning keynote speaker so that was good but I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a web address that we can point someone to if they do pick up a F10 disk because that's all the person running the table has at the time. Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Jun 13 15:11:59 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 11:11:59 -0400 Subject: Introduction In-Reply-To: <2d2e2de00906070045n59142dafr4094b667a02aac7@mail.gmail.com> References: <2d2e2de00906070045n59142dafr4094b667a02aac7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 03:45, Sri Ram wrote: > Hi, > > I am Sri Ram. I working with fedora community for a long period. i am > interested in contributing to Fedora Documentation Project. I am documented > the fedora 10 release announcement for my LUG. Link : > https://fedoraproject.org/w/uploads/7/72/Fedora10_Release_Announcement_KKLUG.pdf > > Details: > Name? :? Sri Ram > IRC Nickname : emplinux > > > > -- > Regards > Sriram B Sri, Good to meet you. You have joined us at a good time. Fedora 11 has just been released and we are all breathing a sigh of relief. Of course this relief is only short lived as our next release is less than half a year away. So what interests you? We have quite a few projects going on. Please join us on IRC at #fedora-docs on freenode.net. We also have our meetings on Thursdays at 0001 UTC at #fedora-meeting. Thanks for joining us! Eric Christensen Docs Project Lead From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 15:28:37 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul Frields) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 11:28:37 -0400 Subject: Upgrade Doc? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > Do we need to make a single page guide for upgrading to the latest > version of F? ?My question comes from the fact that at the Fedora > table at SELF I noted a BUNCH of F10 disks on the table. ?I saw F11 > disks on the table after the morning keynote speaker so that was good > but I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a web address that we > can point someone to if they do pick up a F10 disk because that's all > the person running the table has at the time. I believe there is an Upgrading doc on the wiki that talks about how to upgrade in various ways. The only problem with writing a single-page guide is that you have to know that your method has a shot at being the canonical reference, which may not be the case since the other page has more googlejuice. Do we know what types of media were being given out in F10 vintage? Live? Install DVDs? Would the instructions change depending on whether people installed, updated, and then tried upgrades, as opposed to installing and then immediately upgrading? That's a lot of paths to cover in a single page. Paul From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Jun 13 16:44:48 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 12:44:48 -0400 Subject: Upgrade Doc? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 11:28, Paul Frields wrote: > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 10:36 AM, Eric > Christensen wrote: >> Do we need to make a single page guide for upgrading to the latest >> version of F? ?My question comes from the fact that at the Fedora >> table at SELF I noted a BUNCH of F10 disks on the table. ?I saw F11 >> disks on the table after the morning keynote speaker so that was good >> but I wonder if it would be a good idea to have a web address that we >> can point someone to if they do pick up a F10 disk because that's all >> the person running the table has at the time. > > I believe there is an Upgrading doc on the wiki that talks about how > to upgrade in various ways. The only problem with writing a > single-page guide is that you have to know that your method has a shot > at being the canonical reference, which may not be the case since the > other page has more googlejuice. Do we know what types of media were > being given out in F10 vintage? Live? Install DVDs? ?Would the > instructions change depending on whether people installed, updated, > and then tried upgrades, as opposed to installing and then immediately > upgrading? That's a lot of paths to cover in a single page. > > > Paul Okay, that made my head hurt. I wouldn't think it would matter what method you used to get to the installed Fedora to upgrade it. I was thinking about a document that showed how to obtain newer ISOs or a brief description of using preupgrade along with the pros and cons of each. Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Jun 13 17:44:48 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 13:44:48 -0400 Subject: Tomorrow's FAD Start Time Message-ID: Any complaints to starting tomorrow's FAD at 9A (EDT) versus 10A? Eric From stickster at gmail.com Sat Jun 13 19:43:43 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul Frields) Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:43:43 -0400 Subject: Tomorrow's FAD Start Time In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > Any complaints to starting tomorrow's FAD at 9A (EDT) versus 10A? > > Eric A bunch of us are planning on being there at 9am. Don't miss out on an extra hour of fun! ;-) Paul From lee.brewer at charterinternet.com Sun Jun 14 16:31:07 2009 From: lee.brewer at charterinternet.com (Lee Brewer) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 12:31:07 -0400 Subject: fedora-docs-list Digest, Vol 64, Issue 21 In-Reply-To: <20090614160037.4562E61AD96@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20090614160037.4562E61AD96@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <1244997072.4632.3.camel@fedora> I was there at 9am waiting on "those who partied too hard" to show up. Bah wah wah wah!!! -- ____________________________ ~uclugLee sent using Fedora(11) Linux Evolution email Smoothwall On Sun, 2009-06-14 at 12:00 -0400, fedora-docs-list-request at redhat.com wrote: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 2 > Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 13:44:48 -0400 > From: Eric Christensen > Subject: Tomorrow's FAD Start Time > To: For participants of the Documentation Project > , For discussions about marketing and > expanding the Fedora user base > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Any complaints to starting tomorrow's FAD at 9A (EDT) versus 10A? > > Eric > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sat, 13 Jun 2009 15:43:43 -0400 > From: Paul Frields > Subject: Re: Tomorrow's FAD Start Time > To: For participants of the Documentation Project > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Sat, Jun 13, 2009 at 1:44 PM, Eric > Christensen wrote: > > Any complaints to starting tomorrow's FAD at 9A (EDT) versus 10A? > > > > Eric > > A bunch of us are planning on being there at 9am. Don't miss out on an > extra hour of fun! ;-) > > Paul From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:24:03 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:24:03 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906142024.n5EKO3js021657@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |505939 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:22:18 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:22:18 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906142022.n5EKMHOe021438@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |505938 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:24:02 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:24:02 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505939] New: Need to package MultiHook. Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Need to package MultiHook. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505939 Summary: Need to package MultiHook. Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: docs-requests AssignedTo: eric at christensenplace.us ReportedBy: eric at christensenplace.us QAContact: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com CC: stickster at gmail.com Blocks: 504066 Classification: Fedora Description of problem: Need to package MultiHook. SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/multihook/browser/trunk/MultiHook -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the QA contact for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:22:17 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:22:17 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] New: Need to package MediaAttach. Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Need to package MediaAttach. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 Summary: Need to package MediaAttach. Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: docs-requests AssignedTo: eric at christensenplace.us ReportedBy: eric at christensenplace.us QAContact: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com CC: stickster at gmail.com Blocks: 504066 Classification: Fedora Description of problem: Need to package MediaAttach. SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/mediaattach/browser/trunk/MediaAttach -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the QA contact for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:25:52 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:25:52 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906142025.n5EKPqlq010448@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |505940 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:25:51 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:25:51 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505940] New: Need to package scribite. Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Need to package scribite. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505940 Summary: Need to package scribite. Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: docs-requests AssignedTo: eric at christensenplace.us ReportedBy: eric at christensenplace.us QAContact: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com CC: stickster at gmail.com Blocks: 504066 Classification: Fedora Description of problem: Need to package scribite. Version 3.1: http://code.zikula.org/scribite/browser/tags/scribite/3.1 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the QA contact for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:27:49 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:27:49 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505940] Need to package scribite. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906142027.n5EKRnLv022505@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505940 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |eric at christensenplace.us AssignedTo|eric at christensenplace.us |fedora-docs-list at redhat.com QAContact|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |david at gnsa.us -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the QA contact for the bug. You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:27:48 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:27:48 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505939] Need to package MultiHook. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906142027.n5EKRmXT022487@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505939 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |eric at christensenplace.us AssignedTo|eric at christensenplace.us |fedora-docs-list at redhat.com QAContact|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |david at gnsa.us -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the QA contact for the bug. You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:27:47 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:27:47 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906142027.n5EKRlxU022471@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |eric at christensenplace.us AssignedTo|eric at christensenplace.us |fedora-docs-list at redhat.com QAContact|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |david at gnsa.us -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the QA contact for the bug. You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:42:46 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:42:46 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906142042.n5EKgktU025082@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Paul W. Frields changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |505942 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:47:52 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:47:52 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505939] Need to package MultiHook. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906142047.n5EKlqwr014091@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505939 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED AssignedTo|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-14 16:47:51 EDT --- Working on packaging this one. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Sun Jun 14 20:49:18 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:49:18 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906142049.n5EKnIt3014237@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Alias| |FE-ZIKULA -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From wb8rcr at arrl.net Mon Jun 15 00:00:31 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:00:31 -0400 Subject: FAD @ SELF Message-ID: I just wanted to take a moment to thank David and Eric for organizing a very productive FAD. Sure the audio didn't work out as well as we might have liked, I screwed up on trying to record it, and we got started late, but boy did we get a lot done. We identified a whole pile of things we would like to see better, but then were able to focus that discussion down to a manageable number of things that we actually might do. Viewed from my narrow release notes perspective, this was a really big win. There is work to be done to be sure, but we have some clear direction and we know what the big hitters are. There were lots of things that went well, too. Sometimes we forget those, but it is good to recognize them so we can leverage them next time. Paul then walked us through the whole business of po and pot files, and what the translators have to deal with. Most of this was old new to me, having been baptized by fire in F11, but it was good to see the knowledge getting spread around, and I think it is especially helpful to understand what impact our actions have on L10n. Then Ian Weller did a little packaging class, and we rolled up our sleeves and packaged a bunch of Zikula modules. There is still more to do, but we made a terrific amount of progress in a very short time. We tracked the meeting in Gobby, and that document will be posted to the wiki shortly so those that couldn't join in can at least see the major thoughts. Sorry about the recording, but then a six or so hour audio wouldn't be that much fun to listen too, anyway. Thanks to those who worked hard to make this happen, and to all the folks who were able to join in, add to the discussions, and do the work. It was a day well spent. --McD From eric at christensenplace.us Sun Jun 14 23:28:04 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:28:04 -0400 Subject: F11: What went wrong? What went right? Message-ID: <1245022084.8015.26.camel@localhost> During the Fedora Activity Day (FAD) after the SouthEast LinuxFest (SELF) we discussed several topics concerning the Fedora 11 release. The complete day's notes are available on the wiki[1] for your review. I will be pasting from the wiki into these messages in order to hopefully begin some discussion on how we can make our next release much better. I'll post this initial post and then provide comments within. I encourage all Docs Project members provide their comments as well. What went wrong Changing Release Notes data * Two days before F11 was released, the release notes beats on wiki were still changing * Audio change * Networking issue * Expect full-timers to include info Secret cabal-driven freezes that aren't communicated * (leading to people not knowing about freezes occurring and when RN data needed.) * this is also a comms problem on our part. Too many rogue documents. Getting RPMs pushed - going through f13 takes as much time as building the rpm * We need to be able to push packages ourselves (i.e. need instructions, guidelines, etc.) * Not enough packagers in Docs * Only f13 and stickster know how to push RNs -- need more co-maintainers Could use more clarity understanding on what is implied by freezes, trans, etc Need more interaction with L10n Bugs not being filled out in timely manner * Many RN bugs arrive at the last minute that were known early on -indeed (SEE ABOVE) Need to centralize where bugs are filed (too many choices -- BZ, Trac instances...) * BZ even has too many subchoices (components, etc.) Poor notations on where/how bugs/issues should be filed Wiki search SUCKS BIG TIME!! No good documentation on moving things from wiki to DocBook/Publican stores Could use more consistency in wiki markup Need better documentation on what we want to use from DocBook markup No good process for dealing with orphan documents RN documents are not all in one place (about-fedora, readme's, etc.) Lack of understanding of release schedule process Publican and Fedora/GNOME lang codes not consistent * Not at all clear how login lang selected is used Translators having too much work. Release notes are ill-defined * Too long for normal users to read * Beats have inconsistent levels of content * Need some separation We don't know anything about visit statistics for docs.fp.o We need a more rigorous freeze on wiki release note beats * Notes to f-docs-l, f-trans-l f-dev-l several times before each milestone BZ URL ulink default in Publican is unhelpful at best Not clear if remaining (obsolete? unmaintained?) docs need conversion to Publican (strikes me as part of undefined orphan process) docs.fp.o site sucks (Mo knows) * Need solution for people to install a doc just for their lang, in their format * No CMS, no easy publishing, high barrier to participation * No real indexing... What went right DOCS PEOPLE ROCK Many more docs/guides available than ever before!! (we rocked!) The wiki didn't asplode, but should have. (yay!) Everything seemed a lot more organized this release + Packaging is easier than it sounds + The install guide is awesome ++ Some folks really rolled up their sleeves and helped - zoglesby, laubersm, rudi much better collaboration this release cycle felt far less rushed than F10 stickster and quaid got out of the way and Sparks got run over Brisbane folks represented, yo Red Hat relicensed guide material in a way where we can generate community presence around them [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Documentation_Meeting_2009_06_14 Thanks, Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Jun 15 00:49:26 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:49:26 -0400 Subject: F11: What went wrong? What went right? In-Reply-To: <1245022084.8015.26.camel@localhost> References: <1245022084.8015.26.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <1245026966.8015.111.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2009-06-14 at 19:28 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > During the Fedora Activity Day (FAD) after the SouthEast LinuxFest > (SELF) we discussed several topics concerning the Fedora 11 release. > The complete day's notes are available on the wiki[1] for your review. > I will be pasting from the wiki into these messages in order to > hopefully begin some discussion on how we can make our next release much > better. I'll post this initial post and then provide comments within. > I encourage all Docs Project members provide their comments as well. > > What went wrong > > Changing Release Notes data > * Two days before F11 was released, the release notes beats on wiki were > still changing This frustrated me when a few days before the F11 release we were still changing the release notes. I know that moving the information from the wiki to DocBook may or may not be a trivial event, depending on the amount of bits that need to transition over, but all the work that goes into "fixing" the pot files and then all the translators that have to re-translate every change can get a bit labor intensive. I think we need to implement a firmer freeze point and not accept changes past a certain point. If we make this announcement early then maybe we won't have problems. > * Audio change > * Networking issue > * Expect full-timers to include info > > Secret cabal-driven freezes that aren't communicated > * (leading to people not knowing about freezes occurring and when RN > data needed.) > * this is also a comms problem on our part. Yeah, I should be making more/better/broader-reaching announcements to the Fedora Community. > > Too many rogue documents. I started a list[1] of rogue documents that I discovered by looking through all BZ tickets. As I work through this list I'll update the wiki and if I find more documents out there I'll include them there. > > Getting RPMs pushed - going through f13 takes as much time as building > the rpm > * We need to be able to push packages ourselves (i.e. need instructions, > guidelines, etc.) > * Not enough packagers in Docs > * Only f13 and stickster know how to push RNs -- need more > co-maintainers Today, at FAD at SELF, we went over packaging. It is hoped that more members will be able to package and will be able to review and approve packages in the future. > > Could use more clarity understanding on what is implied by freezes, > trans, etc Yeah, this is the same communication that I commented earlier that I need to improve on. > > Need more interaction with L10n I plan on attending more meeting of all the projects that we interact with. All members should do this. Maybe have liaisons "assigned" to go to other projects. > > Bugs not being filled out in timely manner > * Many RN bugs arrive at the last minute that were known early on > -indeed (SEE ABOVE) > > Need to centralize where bugs are filed (too many choices -- BZ, Trac > instances...) > * BZ even has too many subchoices (components, etc.) I'm not going to say that you have to use BZ or Trac to manage your bugs but whichever you use you should publicize your choice well. Bugzilla is the standard, however, and if you are on the fence I'd recommend using BZ. If you want your product in BZ please let me know. > > Poor notations on where/how bugs/issues should be filed > > Wiki search SUCKS BIG TIME!! I think Ian has this one on his list to come up with a solution. > > No good documentation on moving things from wiki to DocBook/Publican > stores After talking with Paul on Saturday I have an idea that I'll try to put together on the wiki later this week. > > Could use more consistency in wiki markup > > Need better documentation on what we want to use from DocBook markup > > No good process for dealing with orphan documents I think as long as the documents are properly marked as appropriate for a certain release or dated properly then I feel they can exist in the wild without great concern. If we know it's there then maybe someone will provide an update. > > RN documents are not all in one place (about-fedora, readme's, etc.) Can we combine or eliminate some of these pieces? > > Lack of understanding of release schedule process > > Publican and Fedora/GNOME lang codes not consistent > * Not at all clear how login lang selected is used I think we figured out that with the new Transfex software that this is a moot point. > > Translators having too much work. > > Release notes are ill-defined > * Too long for normal users to read > * Beats have inconsistent levels of content > * Need some separation I'll let Paul comment on this as he had a very good idea today. > > We don't know anything about visit statistics for docs.fp.o https://fedoraproject.org/awstats/docs.fedoraproject.org/ > > We need a more rigorous freeze on wiki release note beats > * Notes to f-docs-l, f-trans-l f-dev-l several times before each > milestone > > BZ URL ulink default in Publican is unhelpful at best The default link in Publican points to BZ. Guide owners should update this link to be specific to their component and product in BZ. If you need help with this please let me know and I'll be happy to help you with this. > > Not clear if remaining (obsolete? unmaintained?) docs need conversion to > Publican (strikes me as part of undefined orphan process) > > docs.fp.o site sucks (Mo knows) > * Need solution for people to install a doc just for their lang, in > their format > * No CMS, no easy publishing, high barrier to participation > * No real indexing... The Zikula CMS solution will solve this problem. > > > What went right > > DOCS PEOPLE ROCK Things went so smoothly during the F11 release, in spite of the list of "things that went wrong" above, BECAUSE of our awesome people! Everyone did a fantastic job and made my job easy! Thank you! > > Many more docs/guides available than ever before!! (we rocked!) I've had many comments on this. We did an awesome job getting information out to the masses. > > The wiki didn't asplode, but should have. (yay!) > > Everything seemed a lot more organized this release > + Packaging is easier than it sounds > + The install guide is awesome > ++ Some folks really rolled up their sleeves and helped - zoglesby, > laubersm, rudi > > much better collaboration this release cycle > > felt far less rushed than F10 > > stickster and quaid got out of the way and Sparks got run over And I'm good with getting run over (I wrote that last part). I see myself pointing people in a direction and letting them run. I don't want to be at the front of the group pulling people along (if that's even possible with this group). I'll push if I need to but for the most part contributors in this group work very hard to get the work done. > > Brisbane folks represented, yo The folks in Brisbane really stepped up and worked hard to get contribute to the guides. Thanks guys! > > Red Hat relicensed guide material in a way where we can generate > community presence around them > > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_Documentation_Meeting_2009_06_14 > > Thanks, > Eric I didn't provide comments on everything but I hope other Docs Project contributors will. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table Thanks, Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Jun 15 00:58:58 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 20:58:58 -0400 Subject: F12 and Beyond Message-ID: <1245027538.8015.120.camel@localhost> You will probably recognize some of these from the previous message "What went wrong? What went right?" I sent to the list. These are items that we wanted to fix within 60 days. Sixty days is August 13th (a Thursday) so please provide input on these and if you'd like to help with something please speak up! Eric Voted for these goals in order of decreasing priority: Better communication and interaction with other teams and program manager * Docs Leader should attend/audit/log/read other project meetings * L10n * Design * Websites * Appoint liasions to other sub-projects rather than overloading DPL with meetings * Release schedule needs to include items for announcements to other teams * Docs Project sit down (virtually) with poelcat and grok the schedule and release process docs.fp.o site sucks (Mo knows) * Zikula * Zikula IS *THE* SOLUTION. * Track record * Participation by their upstream in Fedora == BIG + * Package all the pieces. * Train the people * Migrate all the EOL guides/docs into it. * Tagging/categorization of documents by Lang, Release, Format (, subject matter?) * Eight modules remaining to be packaged (no review BZs yet) * Pervasive bundling of libraries * Need to package some PHP libraries to make this happen * SHA-256 library * Puppetization of configs has started, but is incomplete * Infrastructure is blocking on modules/packaging * Zikula will help with infrastructure testing/tuning Need guide for wiki and DocBook markup * Clean up Help:Editing * Move many Docs wiki pages to Archive: and start over! * Create a getting "started guide" that tells you the what and how and provide links to short howtos * Two docs: * Quick Start Guide on the wiki * Documentation Guide in formal repo Release Notes Issues * We need a more rigorous freeze on wiki release note beats * RN documents are not all in one place (about-fedora, readme's, etc.) * Two documents... one for "normal users" and one for "advanced users". * Normal users = front-end features -- Created by Mktg & Docs * Links to the RN section (Advanced users) for those that want to know more. * Advanced users = back-end features + front-end features -- Created by Docs * Schedule * Marketing completion of talking points/tour * Tour should provide a link to upgrade page * Docs editing content * Has to be ported to the appropriate container (Zikula, website..., tupperware(TM), ziplock(R) bag?) * Screen shots have to be done * Translated We don't know anything about visit statistics for docs.fp.o Release notes are ill-defined One target for bugs, consistent pointers across Publican, wiki, docs website, etc. Need to understand release schedule and what is implied by freezes, trans, etc * Note each line item/milestone on the wiki and explain what are the action items to complete it Getting RPMs pushed - going through f13 takes as much time as building the rpm Need to have process and deal with old/orphaned/rogue wiki documents * (https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table) Improve understanding and communication with L10n No good documentation on moving things from wiki to DocBook/Publican stores From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Jun 15 11:33:50 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:33:50 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906151133.n5FBXoCl027495@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |506038 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Jun 15 11:54:00 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 07:54:00 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906151154.n5FBs07D032134@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |506045 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Jun 15 12:05:24 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 08:05:24 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505940] Need to package scribite. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906151205.n5FC5OVh012820@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505940 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Status|NEW |ASSIGNED AssignedTo|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |eric at christensenplace.us -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From philbull at gmail.com Sun Jun 14 21:33:00 2009 From: philbull at gmail.com (Phil Bull) Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 22:33:00 +0100 Subject: Shared open-source style guide Message-ID: <1245015180.25945.58.camel@jaguar> Hi guys, An idea was floated at WOSCON [1] to create a shared open-source style guide for documentation writers [2]. This would be a "vanilla" style guide, which projects could modify and extend if necessary. Advantages include: * No need for projects to write their own style guide from scratch * Reasonable uniformity in style and terminology across projects * Independence from external style guides, which may cost money to access * Projects which don't have a style guide get one for free We have people from GNOME, Ubuntu, Xfce and Drupal discussing this right now, and we'd love for other projects to let us know if they are interested in the concept, and to give us their feedback if they are. PLEASE get in touch via the WOS website [1] rather than replying directly to this message, since this is getting crossposted to a lot of doc lists. Thanks, Phil [1] - http://writingopensource.com [2] - http://writingopensource.com/node/14 -- Phil Bull https://launchpad.net/people/philbull From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 13:39:23 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:39:23 -0400 Subject: Shared open-source style guide In-Reply-To: <1245015180.25945.58.camel@jaguar> References: <1245015180.25945.58.camel@jaguar> Message-ID: <20090615133923.GD4647@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 10:33:00PM +0100, Phil Bull wrote: > Hi guys, > > An idea was floated at WOSCON [1] to create a shared open-source style > guide for documentation writers [2]. This would be a "vanilla" style > guide, which projects could modify and extend if necessary. Advantages > include: > > * No need for projects to write their own style guide from scratch > * Reasonable uniformity in style and terminology across projects > * Independence from external style guides, which may cost money to > access > * Projects which don't have a style guide get one for free > > We have people from GNOME, Ubuntu, Xfce and Drupal discussing this right > now, and we'd love for other projects to let us know if they are > interested in the concept, and to give us their feedback if they are. > > PLEASE get in touch via the WOS website [1] rather than replying > directly to this message, since this is getting crossposted to a lot of > doc lists. > > [1] - http://writingopensource.com > [2] - http://writingopensource.com/node/14 Eric, Can we add this to the meeting agenda for this week? I'd suggest that someone take the action item of bringing our Style Guide to the WOS folks since it's free for them to use and remix. It may only be a starting point, but should be somewhat helpful. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Jun 15 13:50:12 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:50:12 -0400 Subject: Shared open-source style guide In-Reply-To: <20090615133923.GD4647@localhost.localdomain> References: <1245015180.25945.58.camel@jaguar> <20090615133923.GD4647@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1245073812.3592.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-06-15 at 09:39 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Sun, Jun 14, 2009 at 10:33:00PM +0100, Phil Bull wrote: > > Hi guys, > > > > An idea was floated at WOSCON [1] to create a shared open-source style > > guide for documentation writers [2]. This would be a "vanilla" style > > guide, which projects could modify and extend if necessary. Advantages > > include: > > > > * No need for projects to write their own style guide from scratch > > * Reasonable uniformity in style and terminology across projects > > * Independence from external style guides, which may cost money to > > access > > * Projects which don't have a style guide get one for free > > > > We have people from GNOME, Ubuntu, Xfce and Drupal discussing this right > > now, and we'd love for other projects to let us know if they are > > interested in the concept, and to give us their feedback if they are. > > > > PLEASE get in touch via the WOS website [1] rather than replying > > directly to this message, since this is getting crossposted to a lot of > > doc lists. > > > > [1] - http://writingopensource.com > > [2] - http://writingopensource.com/node/14 > > Eric, > > Can we add this to the meeting agenda for this week? I'd suggest > that someone take the action item of bringing our Style Guide to the > WOS folks since it's free for them to use and remix. It may only be a > starting point, but should be somewhat helpful. > > -- > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > Done. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 14:47:17 2009 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 16:47:17 +0200 Subject: Ideas for Fedora Planet site Message-ID: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> I have a few ideas and suggestions on how to improve Fedora Planet site, please tell me what do you think about them. 1. Search - currently there isn't any search on Fedora Planet. Fedora bloggers have great posts and are a really valuable resource, searching through their greats posts with tips&tricks would be a real benefit to everybody. 2. Previous posts - sometimes I'm way from the PC for days, and some times I have extra free time, it would be nice to be able to catch up with previous Fedora Planet posts by looking at previous post. Currently there is only one page of posts that is really rapidly updated, and if you miss some great post it is lost in the internet tubes forever ;) 3. Digg style voting on best posts - this is just an idea, but what do you think of adding a "Digg" style button or "thumbs up" and "thumbs down" button on planet posts, sure the posts should be rotated to show the newest ones, but somewhere on the edges could be top 10 posts of the week or something similar... Cheers! -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From nushio at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 14:56:37 2009 From: nushio at gmail.com (Juan M. Rodriguez) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 09:56:37 -0500 Subject: Ideas for Fedora Planet site In-Reply-To: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hi there! As an avid Google Reader fan, I recommend it as it gets the job done. On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 9:47 AM, Valent Turkovic wrote: > I have a few ideas and suggestions on how to improve Fedora Planet > site, please tell me what do you think about them. > > 1. Search > - currently there isn't any search on Fedora Planet. Fedora bloggers > have great posts and are a really valuable resource, searching through > their greats posts with tips&tricks would be a real benefit to > everybody. Google search, and it even lets you tag posts and "star" them for future reference. > > > 2. Previous posts > - sometimes I'm way from the PC for days, and some times I have extra > free time, it would be nice to be able to catch up with previous > Fedora Planet posts by looking at previous post. Currently there is > only one page of posts that is really rapidly updated, and if you miss > some great post it is lost in the internet tubes forever ;) It saves a copy of each post (at least that which was visible anyways), and marks it as unread. Never miss a post, unless you want to. > > > 3. Digg style voting on best posts > - this is just an idea, but what do you think of adding a "Digg" style > button or "thumbs up" and "thumbs down" button on planet posts, sure > the posts should be rotated to show the newest ones, but somewhere on > the edges could be top 10 posts of the week or something similar... Not covered by Google Reader, but it would be nice to have. > > > Cheers! > > -- > http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ > linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless > registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. > ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Before using Google Reader, I used to use Liferea, which IIRC, also has search, and does store the posts for future reference. -- Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 15:10:32 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:10:32 -0400 Subject: Ideas for Fedora Planet site In-Reply-To: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090615151032.GD9780@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 04:47:17PM +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > I have a few ideas and suggestions on how to improve Fedora Planet > site, please tell me what do you think about them. [...snip...] None of these suggestions look like they're related to the Docs Project. You should bring these to the Websites list, and be prepared to contribute your own effort, if you want these suggestions to turn into reality. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From kanarip at kanarip.com Mon Jun 15 15:22:35 2009 From: kanarip at kanarip.com (Jeroen van Meeuwen) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 17:22:35 +0200 Subject: Ideas for Fedora Planet site In-Reply-To: References: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5e245bc9b3fe478f40f01e92ca2fbb09@localhost> On Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:00:02 -0400 (EDT), Seth Vidal wrote: > On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Valent Turkovic wrote: > >> I have a few ideas and suggestions on how to improve Fedora Planet >> site, please tell me what do you think about them. >> >> 1. Search >> - currently there isn't any search on Fedora Planet. Fedora bloggers >> have great posts and are a really valuable resource, searching through >> their greats posts with tips&tricks would be a real benefit to >> everybody. > > Then setup an rss feed reader. Liferea, google reader, etc, etc. They all > have a search feature. > Thunderbird has one, too, in case you want to take this offline. >> >> 2. Previous posts >> - sometimes I'm way from the PC for days, and some times I have extra >> free time, it would be nice to be able to catch up with previous >> Fedora Planet posts by looking at previous post. Currently there is >> only one page of posts that is really rapidly updated, and if you miss >> some great post it is lost in the internet tubes forever ;) > > See above. > Same here. -Jeroen From ricky at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 15 15:39:24 2009 From: ricky at fedoraproject.org (Ricky Zhou) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:39:24 -0400 Subject: Ideas for Fedora Planet site In-Reply-To: <5e245bc9b3fe478f40f01e92ca2fbb09@localhost> References: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> <5e245bc9b3fe478f40f01e92ca2fbb09@localhost> Message-ID: <20090615153924.GC4253@alpha.rzhou.org> On 2009-06-15 05:22:35 PM, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote: > > Then setup an rss feed reader. Liferea, google reader, etc, etc. They all > > > have a search feature. > > > > Thunderbird has one, too, in case you want to take this offline. To add to the list of tips, I have rss2email setup for Fedora Planet, so I get all posts via email and can keep a full history since I started :-) Thanks, Ricky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Mon Jun 15 15:53:10 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:53:10 -0400 Subject: Ideas for Fedora Planet site In-Reply-To: <20090615151032.GD9780@localhost.localdomain> References: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> <20090615151032.GD9780@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090615155310.GF9780@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:10:32AM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 04:47:17PM +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > > I have a few ideas and suggestions on how to improve Fedora Planet > > site, please tell me what do you think about them. > [...snip...] > > None of these suggestions look like they're related to the Docs > Project. You should bring these to the Websites list, and be prepared > to contribute your own effort, if you want these suggestions to turn > into reality. Never mind the noise, I didn't see "webmaster" on the original post. Literacy fail! Paul From kgs at esilibrary.com Mon Jun 15 17:42:47 2009 From: kgs at esilibrary.com (Karen Schneider) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:42:47 -0400 Subject: [ESI-LIKELY_SPAM]Re: Shared open-source style guide In-Reply-To: <20090615133923.GD4647@localhost.localdomain> References: <1245015180.25945.58.camel@jaguar> <20090615133923.GD4647@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: > > Can we add this to the meeting agenda for this week? I'd suggest > that someone take the action item of bringing our Style Guide to the > WOS folks since it's free for them to use and remix. It may only be a > starting point, but should be somewhat helpful. Remind us infrequent meeting participants when you meet this week? There is interest from the Evergreen community, as we are at the very beginning stages of developing a styleguide and would love to invent as few wheels as necessary. -- -- | Karen G. Schneider | Community Librarian | Equinox Software Inc. "The Evergreen Experts" | Toll-free: 1.877.Open.ILS (1.877.673.6457) x712 | kgs at esilibrary.com | Web: http://www.esilibrary.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Jun 15 17:54:57 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 13:54:57 -0400 Subject: Shared open-source style guide In-Reply-To: References: <1245015180.25945.58.camel@jaguar> <20090615133923.GD4647@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1245088497.3592.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-06-15 at 13:42 -0400, Karen Schneider wrote: > Can we add this to the meeting agenda for this week? I'd > suggest > that someone take the action item of bringing our Style Guide > to the > WOS folks since it's free for them to use and remix. It may > only be a > starting point, but should be somewhat helpful. > > > Remind us infrequent meeting participants when you meet this week? > There is interest from the Evergreen community, as we are at the very > beginning stages of developing a styleguide and would love to invent > as few wheels as necessary. > > > -- > -- > | Karen G. Schneider > | Community Librarian > | Equinox Software Inc. "The Evergreen Experts" > | Toll-free: 1.877.Open.ILS (1.877.673.6457) x712 > | kgs at esilibrary.com > | Web: http://www.esilibrary.com Hi Karen, We meet every Wednesday evening at 8PM EDT (that's Thursdays at 00:01 UTC) using IRC (irc.freenode.net) in the #fedora-meeting room. You can get more information on our meetings on our wiki[1]. We are in the process of cleaning up our wiki space so if you can't find something just ask. If I can't answer your question I'll find someone who can. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Lead -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jwulf at redhat.com Mon Jun 15 23:08:25 2009 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:08:25 +1000 Subject: Ideas for Fedora Planet site In-Reply-To: <20090615153924.GC4253@alpha.rzhou.org> References: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> <5e245bc9b3fe478f40f01e92ca2fbb09@localhost> <20090615153924.GC4253@alpha.rzhou.org> Message-ID: <4A36D469.6030700@redhat.com> On 06/16/2009 01:39 AM, Ricky Zhou wrote: > On 2009-06-15 05:22:35 PM, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote: > >>> Then setup an rss feed reader. Liferea, google reader, etc, etc. They all >>> >>> have a search feature. >>> >>> >> Thunderbird has one, too, in case you want to take this offline. >> > To add to the list of tips, I have rss2email setup for Fedora Planet, so > I get all posts via email and can keep a full history since I started > :-) > > Thanks, > Ricky > I think that these are good ideas - although they take the site away from being the "statically generated html page on a cron job" snapshot of the Fedora blogverse that a Planet Planet-powered "site" (actually is just a page) fundamentally is. The responses I've read so far have not been about the Fedora Planet site, but rather about client configuration. There is a difference. If we were to put this kind of functionality on the site then it would be available to everyone, all the time, with no client-side configuration. It would be a community service. It depends on who which audience(s) we want to serve. Technically capable people can roll their own functionality using any number of applications or web services. Not so technically-savvy people, or people who are "just passing by" are not going to do that. - Josh -- Joshua J Wulf Manager Engineering Content Services Red Hat Asia Pacific eml: jwulf at redhat.com tel: +64 7 3514-8140 cel: +64 431 929 675 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sradvan at redhat.com Mon Jun 15 23:44:02 2009 From: sradvan at redhat.com (Scott Radvan) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:44:02 +1000 Subject: selinux user guide In-Reply-To: <4818cd80906111125j5e2671b0qd8c66ff507480472@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80906111125j5e2671b0qd8c66ff507480472@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090616094402.3c695d3d@redhat.com> On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 15:25:14 -0300 Domingo Becker wrote: > Would you please publish a draft of the SELinux User Guide in > Spanish ? I think warrink would also want one in Dutch. > > kind regards > > Domingo Becker (es) > I have built and posted both here: http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_User_Guide/ Please let me know if you are happy with how they look, and I will publish them to http://docs.fedoraproject.org Thank you for all your work with these translations! Cheers, -- Scott Radvan Content Author, Platform (Installation and Deployment) Red Hat Asia Pacific (Brisbane) http://www.apac.redhat.com From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 16 00:48:17 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:48:17 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906160048.n5G0mHa2019841@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-15 20:48:16 EDT --- Created an attachment (id=348035) --> (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=348035) Initial SPEC file. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 16 00:51:14 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 20:51:14 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906160051.n5G0pE5I009703@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 --- Comment #2 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-15 20:51:13 EDT --- A download is not available for this package from the Zikula website. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Jun 16 01:05:09 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:05:09 -0400 Subject: F12 and Beyond References: <1245027538.8015.120.camel@localhost> Message-ID: <469C03DAFBD9408183E002EE82CF08C3@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" To: Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:58 PM Subject: F12 and Beyond > Getting RPMs pushed - going through f13 takes as much time as building > the rpm This got repeated in multiple messages, and without the context, it comes out all wrong. f13 is our go-to guy for getting docs RPMs pushed. The problem is that the Docs group is always pushing these things as late as possible. Of course, this is exactly the time when Jesse has a million other things on his plate, so it can take some time to track him down. Once we find him, he is incredibly accomodating, especially given all that is usually going on. This comment, without the context, makes is sound like he is unhelpful, and nothing could be farther from the truth. 72/73 de WB8RCR http://www.qsl.net/wb8rcr didileydadidah QRP-L #1446 Code Warriors #35 From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 01:30:42 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:30:42 -0400 Subject: F12 and Beyond In-Reply-To: <469C03DAFBD9408183E002EE82CF08C3@Aidan> References: <1245027538.8015.120.camel@localhost> <469C03DAFBD9408183E002EE82CF08C3@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090616013042.GP9780@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 09:05:09PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" > > To: > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2009 8:58 PM > Subject: F12 and Beyond > >> Getting RPMs pushed - going through f13 takes as much time as building >> the rpm > > This got repeated in multiple messages, and without the context, it comes > out all wrong. > > f13 is our go-to guy for getting docs RPMs pushed. The problem is that > the Docs group is always pushing these things as late as possible. Of > course, this is exactly the time when Jesse has a million other things on > his plate, so it can take some time to track him down. Once we find him, > he is incredibly accomodating, especially given all that is usually going > on. This comment, without the context, makes is sound like he is > unhelpful, and nothing could be farther from the truth. John, thanks for this clarification -- at no point did we mean to impugn Jesse, who is an absolute machine when it comes to releases. Exactly as you say, we need to make this process more scalable so that he can take time on the things that really need rel-eng attention, and we can worry about docs stuff (and help him out where we can). -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 16 03:18:47 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:18:47 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906160318.n5G3IldS004495@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |505946 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 16 03:18:43 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:18:43 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906160318.n5G3IhLu004401@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |493237 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 16 03:18:41 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:18:41 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906160318.n5G3IflH004359@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |492091 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 16 03:18:50 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 23:18:50 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906160318.n5G3IoNO004569@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |506056 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From r.landmann at redhat.com Tue Jun 16 04:33:06 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 14:33:06 +1000 Subject: Publican documentation on docs.fp.o? Message-ID: <4A372082.6080409@redhat.com> The Publican User Guide is provided by the publican-docs package, which makes it available in /usr/share/doc/publican-doc-, and therefore under the Documentation menu in GNOME. There's also an old version on the web on the developer's fedorapeople page [1]. However, with pretty much all Fedora docs now built in Publican, I'm thinking it would be useful to publish a copy of the Publican User Guide on docs.fpo.o alongside the existing Fedora Documentation Guide. That way, we can refer members of the docs and localisation teams to an up-to-date version at a fixed address; it also gives us a fixed address for links in other documentation (this whole issue arose in connection with updating the Translation Quick Start Guide). Unless anyone has any objection, I'll take care of this tomorrow. Cheers Rudi [1] http://jfearn.fedorapeople.org/Publican/ From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 16 06:20:00 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 02:20:00 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906160620.n5G6K0qP006657@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|piotrdrag at gmail.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From geert.warrink at onsnet.nu Tue Jun 16 11:37:48 2009 From: geert.warrink at onsnet.nu (Geert Warrink) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 13:37:48 +0200 Subject: selinux user guide Message-ID: <1245152268.6877.7.camel@swan.localdomain> Scott Radvan wrote: > I have built and posted both here: > http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_User_Guide/ > Please let me know if you are happy with how they look, and I will > publish them to http://docs.fedoraproject.org >Thank you for all your work with these translations! I've made a few final corrections in the Dutch translation. You can publish this translation now. I am very happy with this document. It is a very clear description of the SELinux principles and it helped me a lot to understand it better. Thanks, Geert Warrink -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 16 12:01:28 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:01:28 -0400 Subject: [Bug 505938] Need to package MediaAttach. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906161201.n5GC1ScG008892@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=505938 Simon Birtwistle changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |simon at zikula.org --- Comment #3 from Simon Birtwistle 2009-06-16 08:01:27 EDT --- We use the SVN version as prior releases are not compatible with Zikula 1.1. I can ask the author to make a release, however he may not have the time at the moment as he's busy with a number of other tasks. It would be quicker to build a package against revision 210 of SVN: http://code.zikula.org/mediaattach/log/trunk/MediaAttach?rev=210 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From stickster at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 12:17:39 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:17:39 -0400 Subject: Publican documentation on docs.fp.o? In-Reply-To: <4A372082.6080409@redhat.com> References: <4A372082.6080409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090616121739.GF3932@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 02:33:06PM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > The Publican User Guide is provided by the publican-docs package, which > makes it available in /usr/share/doc/publican-doc-, and > therefore under the Documentation menu in GNOME. There's also an old > version on the web on the developer's fedorapeople page [1]. > > However, with pretty much all Fedora docs now built in Publican, I'm > thinking it would be useful to publish a copy of the Publican User Guide > on docs.fpo.o alongside the existing Fedora Documentation Guide. That > way, we can refer members of the docs and localisation teams to an > up-to-date version at a fixed address; it also gives us a fixed address > for links in other documentation (this whole issue arose in connection > with updating the Translation Quick Start Guide). > > Unless anyone has any objection, I'll take care of this tomorrow. Seems like a splendid idea to me. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 16 12:25:51 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 08:25:51 -0400 Subject: Publican documentation on docs.fp.o? In-Reply-To: <4A372082.6080409@redhat.com> References: <4A372082.6080409@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1245155151.3196.39.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 14:33 +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > The Publican User Guide is provided by the publican-docs package, which > makes it available in /usr/share/doc/publican-doc-, and > therefore under the Documentation menu in GNOME. There's also an old > version on the web on the developer's fedorapeople page [1]. > > However, with pretty much all Fedora docs now built in Publican, I'm > thinking it would be useful to publish a copy of the Publican User Guide > on docs.fpo.o alongside the existing Fedora Documentation Guide. That > way, we can refer members of the docs and localisation teams to an > up-to-date version at a fixed address; it also gives us a fixed address > for links in other documentation (this whole issue arose in connection > with updating the Translation Quick Start Guide). > > Unless anyone has any objection, I'll take care of this tomorrow. > > Cheers > Rudi > > > > [1] http://jfearn.fedorapeople.org/Publican/ > Go for it. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Jun 16 16:55:22 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 09:55:22 -0700 Subject: Fedora 11 Retrospective Recap Message-ID: <4A37CE7A.3080504@redhat.com> Fedora 11 Retrospective Recap 2009-06-16 Wiki version: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Retrospective_Notes Invitees: Cross section of people and leads from each group: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Retrospective_Invitees Attendees: James Laska, Bruno Wolff, J?hann B. Gu?mundsson, John McDonough, Jon Stanley, Jarod Wilson, Todd Zullinger, Ricky Zhou, Steven Moix, Mike McGrath,Jack Aboutboul, Paul Frields, Eric Christensen, John Poelstra, Edward Kirk, Adam Williamson, M?ir?n Duffy, and Jesse Keating Unrepresented Teams: Ambassadors, Translation Location: Global teleconferencing system & Fedora Gobby When: 2009-06-16 @ 14:00 UTC == Meeting Guidelines & Agenda == 1) Each person gets five minutes to say whatever they want. Suggested questions to answer: a) What went well? b) What could have gone better? c) If time and resources were not an issue, what three things would make Fedora 12 our best release ever? 2) While the speaker has the floor nobody can interrupt or correct what they are saying --there are no "wrong" ideas --other participants can seek clarification from speaker after they are done 3) Other attendees will help capture points raised in gobby 4) Open discussion and go forward plans after each person has had an opportunity to speak == Meeting Outcomes == o Individual feedback (see below) o John Poelstra will create a wiki version of these notes and post link to in email recap to fedora-advisory-board --https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Retrospective_Notes o Jesse suggested checking back in a month to see how we are doing on the things we said we said we wanted to change --email is fine; telephone not required o Jesse strongly urged people on the call to take the proposals from the recent FAD back to their teams --feedback needed ASAP --will affect many parts of Fedora --https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Activity_Day_Fedora_Development_Cycle_2009#Resulting_Output o John Poelstra encourage attendees to blog about this meeting to give a wider audience an understanding of what the meeting was like and what they thought about it o The Fedora CMS (Zicula) will affect a lot of groups in Fedora --We need a point person to coordinate these efforts for our greatest chance at success --No one has been identified o ADDED AFTER THE FACT by John Poelstra --Anyone is free to tag onto the end of the wiki document to add their own feedback --https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Retrospective_Notes#Additional_Feedback_Outside_of_the_Meeting == Legend == (+) Went well (-) Could have gone better (w) Wish-list--no limits--everyone CAN have a pony == Jon Stanley (jds2001) - fesco == (+) Feature process went well --good contingency plans (-) X item fell through the cracks (-) Meeting minutes creation failed (+) Started using a minute meeting bot (w) Massive QA testing (w) Earlier freezing/branching for critical packages == Eric Christensen (Sparks) - docs == (-) Release notes churn at the last minute --some is legitimately unforeseen, other notes just not timely enough (-) docs.fedoraproject.org page doesn't flow well --languages hard to find (+) Turned out more guides and docs than past releases (+) use of Red Hat guides that were relicensed (w) Zikula CMS --will replace the existing docs.fp.o (w) standardize and focus on release notes and meet more users point == Jarod Wilson (j-rod) - FESCo == (+) Feature process went smoothly--deadlines understood and less confusion (+) No major disagreements within FESCo (-) No major disagreements within FESCo (-) Meeting minutes (-) Collection of public feedback not optimal (need more _constructive_ feedback) (-) Secondary architecture team updates (w) Focused Fedora kernel QA effort--build up community == John J. McDonough (jjmcd) - docs == (+) people were great (+) use of publican went surprisingly well (+) install guide is the best we've ever had (-) integrating milestones better into schedule (-) pushing to docs.fedoraproject.org is an ugly process --Too many formats (-) Need more packagers on the docs team (w) More engagement with developers/determining who to talk to (w) PackageKit get fixed --problems finding application to click on (w) Problems with wireless on NetworkManager == Edward Kirk (tk009) - BugZappers == (+) Communication really good about what was going on between all the teams and across the project (+) More people are joining the project and contributing (-) Blocker bugs were not handled very well (-) Problems at the end with Anaconda --identifying blocker bugs before the last minute (w) A more solid, stable release that is technically better than anything else out there == James Laska (jlaska) - QA == (+) 20 test days--way more than F10 (+) Documentation around test days and how to create live images, etc. (+) Test results reporting (+) Common F11 Bugs --multiple teams were invested in success (+) Community testing (-) No specific test days for Sound (-) No concept of capacity (-) Clarify hand off procedures between Release Engineering & QA for RC --"who has the ball?" (-) Transparency around release readiness decision and whether to slip --public discussion & publish minutes (-) Automation of testing (-) No metrics around health of QA community (w) Micro-communities around each of the features --specific dashboard --blocker bug tracking (w) Community test case management system == Adam Williamson (adamw) - QA/BugZappers == (-) reading several reviews that Fedora 11 is un-installable (-) unclear how to get in late release notes additions in a cooperative way (+) Test Days were fantastic (+) BugZappers and QA wiki spaces were substantially revised (w) A massive testing lab (w) Improving kernel triage for future releases == Bruno Wolff - Games Spin == (+) Help from Jeremy Katz to enhance livecd-tools for larger games iso size (+) Rawhide updates come quickly from the mirrors and Koji (+) test days were helpful and gave focus to people (+) New Spin process documentation got developed --specific test instructions are now available (-) Broken installer and video got in the way of testing --painful when rawhide was broken (-) We don't have a process for maintaining recurring spins (w) Less broken stuff (w) Spins process document finished (w) Lots of test days (w) More with live USB with persistent storage == Jack Aboutboul & Steven Moix - Marketing == (+) Lots of progress restructuring the marketing team (+) Release schedule helped cross team coordination (-) Need to identify task inter dependencies and add them to the schedule (-) Better capture things that get accomplished (+) Inter group communication with Art, Translation, etc. (w) Host mini-meetings with different teams throughout the release cycle (+) Continuous content production --building up and telling stories (w) Fedora Magazine (+) Tracking press reports in different languages (w) Finding a better way to do metrics to identify how far our reach is and understand audience (w) More marketing to younger audiences and greater public awareness == Ricky Zhou - Websites== (+) two or three people helping consistently with Web team tasks (-) Late changes from marketing and docs team which had minor impact (w) Add a review period so that issues can be identified and corrected before release == Mairin Duffy - Design == (-) Need to see feedback to the Design list as opposed to sprung on blogs (w) Six more designers on the team! (w) pink pony!!!!11!! == Jesse Keating - Release Engineering == (+) Better involvement with QA and Triage --improved confidence in QA beating on the trees (+) Did a better job of managing the blocker lists (+) Good help from others verifying blocker bugs (+) Test Days ... more feature owners are requesting targeted testing (+) No last minute compose-related surprises (-) Better communication around what testing needs to be done --improve capture of testing outside of the matrix (mailing lists) (-) Clearer guidelines around code changes (+) FAD Proposals - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_Activity_Day_Fedora_Development_Cycle_2009#Resulting_Output (w) earlier review blocker bugs --maybe weekly after we branch (w) automated QA which provides automatic feedback == J?hann B. Gu?mundsson - QA Team== (w) Taking test days to the next level --improved advertisement --re-use live images for additional testing (w) coordinate with upstream testing (w) litmus testing system added to Fedora --litmus is coded to be quite mozilla-specific (according to jlaska) (w) Use of Fedora QA Trac system to track request from maintainers (w) Host test day without requiring maintainer present (-) lack consensus amongst maintainers if a reporter is supposed to report to our bugzilla or upstream one (w) Daily scheduled testing on components. == Todd Zullinger -- Websites Team == (+) more complete translations than we've had before (+) Infrastructure team syncing release content earlier than past releases (w) relocate everyone to a tropical island where we can all work together in person == Mike McGrath - Infrastructure == (+) team is growing (-) multiple release slips hindered work in infrastructure due to freezes --one big slip would be nicer (w) Feature freezes in earlier (w) Contingency plans for core distro functionality (w) Look for key ways that Infrastructure can enable success of QA Team == Paul Frields == (+) Well coordinated for the releases including slip announcements (+) Ambassadors did a great job behind the scenes --media production --release parties (-) Feedback mechanisms are unclear and point to too many different places --documentation and marketing materials --could anaconda bug reporting mechanism be helped by design team? (w) Marketing, Docs, Website, Design team work on coordinated approach to the Zicula (CMS) --organized and well coordinated fashion (w) More forceful in not allowing late/invasive changes to rawhide and putting them off to next release From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 16 20:38:11 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:38:11 -0400 Subject: Guides... Message-ID: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> I want to go ahead and push ahead with the decisions made in the 'BZ and Guide Table'[1] as discussed in previous meetings. Can I get three '+1's, please? [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From piotrdrag at gmail.com Tue Jun 16 20:41:23 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:41:23 +0200 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A380373.4030001@gmail.com> W dniu 16.06.2009 22:38, Eric Christensen pisze: > I want to go ahead and push ahead with the decisions made in the 'BZ > and Guide Table'[1] as discussed in previous meetings. Can I get > three '+1's, please? > Probably not required or requested, but +1 from l10n for our guides. -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 16 20:47:37 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 16:47:37 -0400 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <4A380373.4030001@gmail.com> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4A380373.4030001@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1245185257.3196.79.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 22:41 +0200, Piotr Dr?g wrote: > W dniu 16.06.2009 22:38, Eric Christensen pisze: > > I want to go ahead and push ahead with the decisions made in the 'BZ > > and Guide Table'[1] as discussed in previous meetings. Can I get > > three '+1's, please? > > > > Probably not required or requested, but +1 from l10n for our guides. > > -- > Piotr Dr?g > http://raven.pmail.pl > Piotr, Oh VERY MUCH requested! I think we chatted about it earlier but always good to confirm. Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From awilliam at redhat.com Wed Jun 17 00:51:33 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Tue, 16 Jun 2009 17:51:33 -0700 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 16:38 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > I want to go ahead and push ahead with the decisions made in the 'BZ and > Guide Table'[1] as discussed in previous meetings. Can I get three > '+1's, please? > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table Keep: readme-burning-isos - README for burning ISO images, included at mirrors. To me it would make more sense to move this to the wiki, and have a static copy done for each release on the images...wdyt? -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From skvidal at fedoraproject.org Mon Jun 15 15:00:02 2009 From: skvidal at fedoraproject.org (Seth Vidal) Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 11:00:02 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Ideas for Fedora Planet site In-Reply-To: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300906150747t6a7ff96fn9220f55d47c161e4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Mon, 15 Jun 2009, Valent Turkovic wrote: > I have a few ideas and suggestions on how to improve Fedora Planet > site, please tell me what do you think about them. > > 1. Search > - currently there isn't any search on Fedora Planet. Fedora bloggers > have great posts and are a really valuable resource, searching through > their greats posts with tips&tricks would be a real benefit to > everybody. Then setup an rss feed reader. Liferea, google reader, etc, etc. They all have a search feature. > > 2. Previous posts > - sometimes I'm way from the PC for days, and some times I have extra > free time, it would be nice to be able to catch up with previous > Fedora Planet posts by looking at previous post. Currently there is > only one page of posts that is really rapidly updated, and if you miss > some great post it is lost in the internet tubes forever ;) See above. > 3. Digg style voting on best posts > - this is just an idea, but what do you think of adding a "Digg" style > button or "thumbs up" and "thumbs down" button on planet posts, sure > the posts should be rotated to show the newest ones, but somewhere on > the edges could be top 10 posts of the week or something similar... I don't think of fedora planet as a contest. -sv From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 17 19:32:55 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:32:55 -0400 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <1245267175.3243.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 17:51 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 16:38 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > I want to go ahead and push ahead with the decisions made in the 'BZ and > > Guide Table'[1] as discussed in previous meetings. Can I get three > > '+1's, please? > > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table > Keep: > > readme-burning-isos - README for burning ISO images, included at > mirrors. > > To me it would make more sense to move this to the wiki, and have a > static copy done for each release on the images...wdyt? Why move it to the wiki only to pull it back into Publican twice a year? Eric > > -- > Adam Williamson > Fedora QA Community Monkey > IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org > http://www.happyassassin.net > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From awilliam at redhat.com Wed Jun 17 20:11:12 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:11:12 -0700 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <1245267175.3243.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> <1245267175.3243.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1245269472.313.418.camel@adam.local.net> On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 15:32 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 17:51 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 16:38 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > > I want to go ahead and push ahead with the decisions made in the 'BZ and > > > Guide Table'[1] as discussed in previous meetings. Can I get three > > > '+1's, please? > > > > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table > > Keep: > > > > readme-burning-isos - README for burning ISO images, included at > > mirrors. > > > > To me it would make more sense to move this to the wiki, and have a > > static copy done for each release on the images...wdyt? > > Why move it to the wiki only to pull it back into Publican twice a year? Easier reference. I wrote a similar page for Mandriva, because the 'how do I burn this crazy ISO file thing!' question was coming up quite often in forums and so forth, and I wanted somewhere to point to; a Wiki page is a nice way to have this. Or am I misunderstanding the current state and you can already easily access this document as a web page (on docs.fp.o?) rather than having to point to an FTP site? -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Jun 17 20:18:54 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 06:18:54 +1000 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <1245269472.313.418.camel@adam.local.net> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> <1245267175.3243.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245269472.313.418.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <4A394FAE.7060306@redhat.com> On 06/18/2009 06:11 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > Or am I misunderstanding the current state > and you can already easily access this document as a web page (on > docs.fp.o?) rather than having to point to an FTP site? > > Yeah, it's here: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/ which is linked from the main Docs page: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ From oglesbyzm at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 20:21:05 2009 From: oglesbyzm at gmail.com (Zach Oglesby) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:21:05 +0200 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <1245269472.313.418.camel@adam.local.net> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> <1245267175.3243.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245269472.313.418.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <20090617202105.GB540@zaphod.zach.tk> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 01:11:12PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 15:32 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 17:51 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 16:38 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > > > I want to go ahead and push ahead with the decisions made in the 'BZ and > > > > Guide Table'[1] as discussed in previous meetings. Can I get three > > > > '+1's, please? > > > > > > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table > > > Keep: > > > > > > readme-burning-isos - README for burning ISO images, included at > > > mirrors. > > > > > > To me it would make more sense to move this to the wiki, and have a > > > static copy done for each release on the images...wdyt? > > > > Why move it to the wiki only to pull it back into Publican twice a year? > > Easier reference. I wrote a similar page for Mandriva, because the 'how > do I burn this crazy ISO file thing!' question was coming up quite often > in forums and so forth, and I wanted somewhere to point to; a Wiki page > is a nice way to have this. Or am I misunderstanding the current state > and you can already easily access this document as a web page (on > docs.fp.o?) rather than having to point to an FTP site? http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/en_US/ Its a little out of date, but its on my list of things to do. -- Zach Oglesby GPG Key: 1378F79F http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Zoglesby -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From awilliam at redhat.com Wed Jun 17 20:25:32 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 13:25:32 -0700 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <4A394FAE.7060306@redhat.com> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> <1245267175.3243.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245269472.313.418.camel@adam.local.net> <4A394FAE.7060306@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1245270332.313.419.camel@adam.local.net> On Thu, 2009-06-18 at 06:18 +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > On 06/18/2009 06:11 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > > Or am I misunderstanding the current state > > and you can already easily access this document as a web page (on > > docs.fp.o?) rather than having to point to an FTP site? > > > > > > Yeah, it's here: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/ > > which is linked from the main Docs page: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/ Aha, that neatly addresses it then - no further questions, your honour. :) Thanks. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 17 20:51:13 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:51:13 -0400 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <20090617202105.GB540@zaphod.zach.tk> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> <1245267175.3243.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245269472.313.418.camel@adam.local.net> <20090617202105.GB540@zaphod.zach.tk> Message-ID: <1245271873.3243.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 22:21 +0200, Zach Oglesby wrote: > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 01:11:12PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 15:32 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > > On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 17:51 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > > On Tue, 2009-06-16 at 16:38 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > > > > I want to go ahead and push ahead with the decisions made in the 'BZ and > > > > > Guide Table'[1] as discussed in previous meetings. Can I get three > > > > > '+1's, please? > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table > > > > Keep: > > > > > > > > readme-burning-isos - README for burning ISO images, included at > > > > mirrors. > > > > > > > > To me it would make more sense to move this to the wiki, and have a > > > > static copy done for each release on the images...wdyt? > > > > > > Why move it to the wiki only to pull it back into Publican twice a year? > > > > Easier reference. I wrote a similar page for Mandriva, because the 'how > > do I burn this crazy ISO file thing!' question was coming up quite often > > in forums and so forth, and I wanted somewhere to point to; a Wiki page > > is a nice way to have this. Or am I misunderstanding the current state > > and you can already easily access this document as a web page (on > > docs.fp.o?) rather than having to point to an FTP site? > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/en_US/ > > Its a little out of date, but its on my list of things to do. So you are adopting this doc? Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From awilliam at redhat.com Wed Jun 17 21:11:46 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:11:46 -0700 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <1245271873.3243.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> <1245267175.3243.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245269472.313.418.camel@adam.local.net> <20090617202105.GB540@zaphod.zach.tk> <1245271873.3243.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1245273106.313.420.camel@adam.local.net> On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 16:51 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > > Easier reference. I wrote a similar page for Mandriva, because the 'how > > > do I burn this crazy ISO file thing!' question was coming up quite often > > > in forums and so forth, and I wanted somewhere to point to; a Wiki page > > > is a nice way to have this. Or am I misunderstanding the current state > > > and you can already easily access this document as a web page (on > > > docs.fp.o?) rather than having to point to an FTP site? > > > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/en_US/ > > > > Its a little out of date, but its on my list of things to do. > > So you are adopting this doc? In case my MDV page might help with the re-write, here it is: http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Installing_Mandriva_Linux/Writing_CD_and_DVD_images -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Wed Jun 17 21:19:08 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 17:19:08 -0400 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: <1245273106.313.420.camel@adam.local.net> References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> <1245267175.3243.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245269472.313.418.camel@adam.local.net> <20090617202105.GB540@zaphod.zach.tk> <1245271873.3243.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245273106.313.420.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 16:51 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > > > > Easier reference. I wrote a similar page for Mandriva, because the > 'how > > > > do I burn this crazy ISO file thing!' question was coming up quite > often > > > > in forums and so forth, and I wanted somewhere to point to; a Wiki > page > > > > is a nice way to have this. Or am I misunderstanding the current > state > > > > and you can already easily access this document as a web page (on > > > > docs.fp.o?) rather than having to point to an FTP site? > > > > > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/en_US/ > > > > > > Its a little out of date, but its on my list of things to do. > > > > So you are adopting this doc? > > In case my MDV page might help with the re-write, here it is: > > > http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Installing_Mandriva_Linux/Writing_CD_and_DVD_images > Becareful before we copy content from this page - It's cc-by-sa 2.5, which iirc doesn't mix well with OPL - ie, we can't take CC-BY-SA content and easily release it under OPL which is what the wiki and our other documents content is licensed under at the moment. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 17 21:27:30 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:27:30 -0700 Subject: [Fwd: publictest boxes] Message-ID: <20090617212730.GG7829@localhost.localdomain> >From the fedora-infrastructure-list -- just making sure it's seen here since I think we have a Zikula instance on a publictest box. Paul ----- Forwarded message from Mike McGrath ----- Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:14:55 -0500 (CDT) From: Mike McGrath To: Fedora Infrastructure List Subject: publictest boxes X-BeenThere: fedora-infrastructure-list at redhat.com Hey guys, If any of you are sponsor for a publictest box or are using a publictest box. Please fill out the information for that box on the wiki. See publictest2 for example: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Server/publictest2 -Mike _______________________________________________ Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list Fedora-infrastructure-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list ----- End forwarded message ----- From simon at zikula.org Wed Jun 17 22:19:37 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 23:19:37 +0100 Subject: publictest boxes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <015e01c9ef99$b433d3e0$1c9b7ba0$@org> I've updated the usage of pt15 to include Zikula - note there also seems to be a separate installation of Zikula relating to calendar testing on there. Simon > -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-infrastructure-list-bounces at redhat.com [mailto:fedora- > infrastructure-list-bounces at redhat.com] On Behalf Of Mike McGrath > Sent: 17 June 2009 21:15 > To: Fedora Infrastructure List > Subject: publictest boxes > > Hey guys, If any of you are sponsor for a publictest box or are using > a > publictest box. Please fill out the information for that box on the > wiki. > See publictest2 for example: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/Server/publictest2 > > -Mike > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-infrastructure-list mailing list > Fedora-infrastructure-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-infrastructure-list > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.364 / Virus Database: 270.12.76/2183 - Release Date: > 06/17/09 05:53:00 From awilliam at redhat.com Wed Jun 17 22:23:17 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:23:17 -0700 Subject: Guides... In-Reply-To: References: <1245184691.3196.77.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245199893.313.230.camel@adam.local.net> <1245267175.3243.33.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245269472.313.418.camel@adam.local.net> <20090617202105.GB540@zaphod.zach.tk> <1245271873.3243.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1245273106.313.420.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <1245277397.313.433.camel@adam.local.net> On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 17:19 -0400, David Nalley wrote: > > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Adam Williamson > wrote: > On Wed, 2009-06-17 at 16:51 -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > > > > Easier reference. I wrote a similar page for Mandriva, > because the 'how > > > > do I burn this crazy ISO file thing!' question was > coming up quite often > > > > in forums and so forth, and I wanted somewhere to point > to; a Wiki page > > > > is a nice way to have this. Or am I misunderstanding the > current state > > > > and you can already easily access this document as a web > page (on > > > > docs.fp.o?) rather than having to point to an FTP site? > > > > > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/en_US/ > > > > > > Its a little out of date, but its on my list of things to > do. > > > > So you are adopting this doc? > > > In case my MDV page might help with the re-write, here it is: > > http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/Docs/Installing_Mandriva_Linux/Writing_CD_and_DVD_images > > > > Becareful before we copy content from this page - It's cc-by-sa 2.5, > which iirc doesn't mix well with OPL - ie, we can't take CC-BY-SA > content and easily release it under OPL which is what the wiki and our > other documents content is licensed under at the moment. Oh, yay, licensing fun. Since I wrote just about everything on that page, I think I have the right to license it as whatever I damn well please. If anyone does want to use any of the stuff on that page, let me know and I'll just send a static copy of the text I wrote (without any changes added by others) to the list or something, and declare it OPL. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From awilliam at redhat.com Wed Jun 17 22:49:06 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Wed, 17 Jun 2009 15:49:06 -0700 Subject: My thoughts on release documentation Message-ID: <1245278946.313.453.camel@adam.local.net> Hi, guys. So, I mentioned in my introduction email what I wanted to bring up within the docs project context, and I also mentioned this at the F11 post-release recap meeting yesterday. Here's a longer message with my thoughts. There's quite a lot of important information about F11 which needs to be documented somewhere, that's coming to light either late in the release cycle or after the release is made. I can cite multiple examples if needed, but I won't to keep down on length - if anyone is unconvinced of this point please ask, and I will cite chapter and verse. :) At present, it doesn't seem like this is handled very well. There's the Common Bugs page which I'm sort of maintaining and which can easily be updated post-release, but that has a very specific mandate and things which are not actually bugs fall outside of it. Aside from that, things get messy. We end up with multiple, non-canonical sources for this information. Some of it winds up in things like Rahul's FedoraFAQ - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_FAQ . Some of it winds up in blog posts - ironically, I can no longer find the pair of posts by one person which would have made perfect release notes entries that I was going to cite as examples here, which is annoying but also perfectly highlights why this isn't a good method :). Some of it winds up in fedora forum sticky threads - http://forums.fedoraforum.org/showthread.php?t=223206 . Some of it winds up in little bot-automated notices that the #fedora IRC guys use. It's a mess. This is problematic for two obvious reasons: it detracts from the 'brand' of the canonical release documentation, meaning people take it less seriously because they know it isn't going to cover everything, and of course it makes it a bitch to find all of this information. Looking at some of the previous discussion on this list, it's obvious this has come up before, and people have been talking about ways to address it. There seems to be a focus, however, on ways to try and make sure all the information gets in before the release notes freeze, at which point all bets are off. I'm not sure this is ever going to work; I think that, no matter how great we are are getting as much info as possible in before the freeze, sod's law dictates there's always going to be _something_ that will come up either shortly before release, at release time, or after. Consequently I think the release documentation process needs to be flexible enough to provide a canonical source of release information that can be updated reasonably easily and quickly throughout the release cycle, and afterwards. I see for F12 there seems to be a proposal to split the release notes into two - a shorter, 'greatest hits' page for 'regular users', and the full fat thing for 'advanced users'. Would this be anything like how I handled it for MDV? For MDV there are three main release documents, the Release Notes, Errata (like Common Bugs) and the Release Tour. The Release Tour is a shortish document which simply explains shiny new features - not any problems introduced by changes, really - with lots of screenshots and so on. See the 2009 Tour, for instance - http://wiki.mandriva.com/en/2009.0_Tour . If it's going to be something along those lines, I might suggest that the 'advanced' release notes be done with a kind of dual-track system. We can still freeze the initial contributions to produce a nicely formatted and translated frozen set of release notes at release time. However, we could continue to accept changes to the wiki contribution pages after the freeze date, and pull these together into a quick-and-slightly-dirty 'live' release notes page on the wiki, which could be constantly updateable through the life of a release. Well, that's just an initial thought. The general idea is more important than the implementation details. If we can get something like this in place, I'd hope we'd be able to reach out to all the groups who tend to find stuff that needs documenting - forums, IRC, qa/bugzappers etc - and ask them to consistently document frequently arising issues in this canonical location, so that everyone's singing from the same hymn sheet and the 'cachet' of the canonical documentation is improved. Hope that makes sense :) please do let me know your thoughts on this. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 18 13:13:49 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:13:49 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-06-18 Summary Message-ID: <1245330829.3229.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Attendees: ----------- 1. Sparks (132) 2. jjmcd (42) 3. quaid (28) 4. zoglesby (16) 5. perspectival (11) 6. radsy (8) 7. ianweller (7) 8. poelcat (7) 9. nirik (5) 10. rudi (3) 11. kgs (2) 12. uclugLee (1) Summary: --------- * We discussed using the Meeting Bot to help us capture our meeting minutes. Everyone seemed to grasp the commands rather quickly. * We also discussed meeting "symbols" to help the person running the meeting know when you have something to say. This isn't for strict enforcement but rather to help speed the meetings along. * We discussed the recent FAD at Clemson University (post-SELF). Discussions on how to make the F12 release go smoother were a top priority along with what went wrong/right during the F11 release. A list of tasks were voted on for priority setting so we can concentrate on the things that need to happen. We hope to implement as many of the tasks as we can within 60 days. * We also discussed "Docs Decisions for F12". There will be some changes coming down the pipes for F12. * Quaid updated us on the change from OPL to CC-SA-BY licenses for our documents and the wiki. Nothing has really occurred since last week but he will keep us updated as things happen and decisions are made. * We had a request to join a "shared open-source style guide" group. I think this request left us all scratching our heads a bit. Sparks will be following up on this request to determine what exactly the request is for. * We received a CMS update. The CMS (Zikula) is being packaged at this time. Once all the pieces have been packaged a test instance will be stood up before moving it to the live, public environment. * We also touched on wiki page changes. I think ianweller will be working on some of the tools we need to make this happen later this summer. Once we have the tools to do what we need we'll be able to work on the wiki more efficiently. * The calendar was also on our list of topics to cover. While an enterprise solution is being fashioned, poelcat will be generating the release calendars which we will have some input into to customize it for the Docs team. * In the "all other business", Scott (radsy) said that he was working on Squid Caching Proxy portion of the "SELinux Managing Confined Services" guide and provided the link for anyone to look at. The meeting closed at 1:08 UTC. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 18 13:27:50 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:27:50 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-06-18 IRC log Message-ID: <1245331670.3229.35.camel@localhost.localdomain> 20:00 < Sparks> #startmeeting 20:00 < Sparks> #meetingtopic Docs Meeting 20:00 < fedbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 18 00:03:00 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. 20:00 < fedbot> Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot , Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 20:00 < Sparks> #topic Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 20:00 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:01 < radsy> oooh, that's cool 20:01 < Sparks> Roll Call 20:01 * Sparks is here 20:01 * radsy is here 20:02 * jjmcd would like to clear by 0100Z 20:02 -!- perspectival [n=perspect at nat/redhat/x-89dafd55555a2d14] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 -!- dychen_ [n=dingyich at nat/redhat/x-ac59ff8e41efadde] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 -!- rudi [n=rlandman at nat/redhat/x-e63492226f2688bc] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 * ianweller is sorta kind here maybe 20:03 * rudi is here 20:03 < Sparks> jjmcd: me too 20:03 < jjmcd> Japanese Game Show? 20:03 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes 20:03 < jjmcd> ;-) 20:05 * kgs wonders if visitors introduce themselves 20:05 < Sparks> sure! 20:05 < Sparks> Okay, let's get started... 20:05 < Sparks> #topic Meeting procedures 20:05 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Meeting procedures (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:06 < Sparks> You may have noticed that we have a new bot in the room with us taking notes. Fedbot is a new bot that automates some channel maintenance for the OPs but also has some real nifty meeting commands as well. You can read more about this bot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:06 * quaid is here now 20:06 -!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 20:06 < Sparks> To get the most out of this bot we should learn to use the following commands: 20:06 < Sparks> info - Add an info item to the minutes. People should liberally use this for important things they say, so that they can be logged in the minutes. 20:06 < Sparks> action - Document an action item in the minutes. Include any nicknames in the line, and the item will be assigned to them. (nicknames are case-sensitive) 20:06 < Sparks> idea - Add an idea to the minutes. 20:06 < Sparks> help - Add a "Call for Help" to the minutes. Use this command when you need to recruit someone to do a task. (Counter-intuitively, this doesn't provide help on the bot) 20:06 < Sparks> link - Add a link to the meeting minutes. The link should be the first non-command on the line, other commentary after the link is OK. Links beginning with http:// and a few other protocols are automatically detected. 20:06 < Sparks> All commands start with a # so you have to use that (i.e. #idea). 20:06 * Sparks pauses for any query... 20:06 < quaid> what does the result look like? 20:07 * zoglesby is here 20:07 < quaid> I've seen a log before, but it was just bold faced stuff 20:07 * nirik notes he will in the next few days be getting it setup to log to a fedoraproject machine and run from zodbot. 20:07 < Sparks> quaid: I don't know. I guess we'll see 20:07 < quaid> ah, Ok 20:07 < nirik> output looks like: http://fedorapeople.org/~kevin/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-12-17.01.html 20:07 < quaid> so it's somewhat data capture for now? we don't have it auto-generating logs for mailing lists, etc yet? 20:08 < quaid> ah! 20:08 < Sparks> Hmmm... 20:08 < Sparks> Yeah, that's going to take some getting used to. 20:08 < quaid> ok, much better, thanks; I'd only seen a straight IRC log generation 20:09 < nirik> not yet, but I am working with upstream and he's been fixing things like mad. ;) 20:09 < nirik> if anyone has suggestions/changes/thoughts, feel free to ping me with them and I will pass them on. 20:09 < Sparks> nirik: I'll probably have some for you in an hour. 20:09 < nirik> sounds good. ;) 20:10 < Sparks> Okay... 20:10 -!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 20:10 < Sparks> I'd also like to start using Meeting Protocols (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Meeting_Protocol) for our meetings. I think it will help keep the momentum up and we won't waste time. 20:10 < Sparks> Basically, all you have to do is follow these simple instructions: 20:10 < Sparks> 1. Please watch what others are doing and do not interrupt 20:10 < Sparks> 2. If you have a question, type "?" 20:10 < Sparks> 3. If you need to speak, type "!" 20:10 < Sparks> 4. If you're done speaking, type "eof" 20:10 < Sparks> 5. If you agree, type "+1" 20:11 < Sparks> Any questions or comments? 20:11 < quaid> hmmm 20:11 < quaid> I won't say no personally, but 20:11 < quaid> I've found those to be most helpful where the common language 20:11 < quaid> is not the first language spoken of participants. 20:12 < quaid> so, it would be a good practice to welcome non-native English speakers 20:12 < quaid> but it does interrupt flow 20:12 < quaid> 20:12 < ianweller> +1 20:12 < Sparks> Well, we seem to take a while typing things we want to say and I'm not sure if I'm waiting for someone to respond or not. 20:13 < radsy> +1 20:13 < ianweller> (oh by the way i was +1ing quaid) 20:13 < quaid> Sparks: I do like eof as a convention, yeah 20:13 < quaid> it's a kindness 20:14 < Sparks> I'm not looking for strict adherence... but just for folks to keep in mind if they want to say something so I know they are typing something 20:15 < Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything else to say before we move on to the REAL important stuff? 20:16 < radsy> no 20:16 < rudi> no 20:16 < jjmcd> ^Z 20:16 < Sparks> #topic [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report 20:16 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:16 < Sparks> We had a wonderful time at the Fedora Activity Day (FAD) after SELF in Clemson. We had a couple of participants that remotely attended the session and six people who were physically in Clemson. 20:17 < Sparks> Everyone should have received the final "notes" from the FAD. 20:17 < Sparks> Has everyone had a change to look over the notes? 20:17 < Sparks> And does anyone have any questions about the FAD? 20:17 < jjmcd> ? 20:17 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes 20:18 < jjmcd> Do we have a plan to get names attached to those action items not taken? 20:19 < Sparks> jjmcd: Not as of yet. But we should. If you want to take something then go for it. 20:19 < jjmcd> ! 20:19 < Sparks> Oh I see this going badly 20:19 < Sparks> jjmcd: yes? 20:19 < jjmcd> We should also take poelcat's suggestion to use that list and the retrospective list as a potential task list for new joiners 20:19 < Sparks> +1 20:20 < jjmcd> eof 20:20 < zoglesby> +1 20:20 < quaid> ! Sparks: one option is to have people just ! and ? then speak, without being cleared by the moderator; that is, self-police a bit :) 20:20 < Sparks> Yes... 20:20 < Sparks> I guess that's kinda what I meant. 20:20 < Sparks> quaid: Thank you 20:20 < jjmcd> ! 20:20 < jjmcd> Doesn't make a lot of diff when you type as slow as me 20:20 < Sparks> :) 20:21 < Sparks> jjmcd: I'll try to put together a list of items to do from the FAD and let's see what we can get done. 20:21 -!- uclugLee [n=Lee at 75-130-149-037.dhcp-v.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:21 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma at 201.102.115.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:21 -!- SMParrish [n=quassel at cpe-069-134-255-095.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:21 < zoglesby> ? 20:21 < uclugLee> Greetings and salutations. 20:21 < Sparks> Yes Zach 20:22 < zoglesby> Did we get anywere with the calendar after the FAD? 20:22 < Sparks> zoglesby: Kinda... I want to talk to poelcat to see if he can help. 20:22 < zoglesby> I didn't see it in the notes, but we talked about it for a while 20:22 < zoglesby> ok 20:22 < zoglesby> eof 20:22 < Sparks> zoglesby: There is a calendaring program coming down the line 20:23 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma at 189.143.130.221] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:23 < Sparks> Anything else for the FAD? 20:24 < Sparks> #topic [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] 20:24 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:24 < Sparks> jjmcd: Would you like to talk about this since you started the topic? 20:24 < jjmcd> Well I think we covered a lot Sunday 20:25 < jjmcd> We have some new ideas on RN's 20:25 -!- constanton [n=constant at athedsl-4503894.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:25 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma at 189.143.130.221] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25 < jjmcd> Content, perhaps a totally new organization, I see some more ideas on f-d-l 20:25 < jjmcd> We have a better understanding on the l10n issues, as well as the codes (although no decisiosn there) 20:26 < jjmcd> Rudi has prempted the Publican question ;-)) 20:26 < Sparks> :) 20:26 < rudi> :D 20:26 < jjmcd> Still no real answer on homepage and how to actually present them 20:26 < jjmcd> I think we have some really good plans tho 20:26 < jjmcd> but we need to share them more widely before implementing 20:27 -!- sankarshan [n=sankarsh at fedora/sankarshan] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:27 < jjmcd> Not sure we are necessarily aware of the URQs 20:27 < jjmcd> eof 20:27 < Sparks> URQs? 20:27 < jjmcd> User Requirements 20:27 -!- sankarshan [n=sankarsh at fedora/sankarshan] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27 < Sparks> Ahh 20:27 < jjmcd> <---- requirements geek 20:27 < Sparks> I think one thing that stickster had a good idea about was the different expectations... 20:28 < Sparks> by different users. One set wants the one page, with pictures, RNs while... 20:28 < jjmcd> Yes. I think the breaking down into different formats langs has some merit 20:28 < Sparks> the more techy group wants the 1000 page RNs with all the info. 20:28 < jjmcd> but that is a big change that probably negatively impacts someone 20:28 < jjmcd> Yes 20:28 < jjmcd> ALtho I still think that ALL the changes with just a link covers 95% of that 20:29 < Sparks> I want to talk with the Marketing folks about it more. 20:29 < jjmcd> as in the example I pointed to somewhere 20:30 < jjmcd> wait 20:30 < jjmcd> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Test_of_table_RNs 20:30 < jjmcd> Did everyone get a look at that? 20:30 < jjmcd> highlight a few biggies and list all the rest 20:31 < Sparks> I didn't... Have now 20:31 < jjmcd> reduces translation and increases the data 20:31 -!- joat [n=joat at ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:31 < Sparks> Good combinations 20:31 < jjmcd> THat way qnyone waiting for a feature/bugfix can see if its there 20:32 < jjmcd> Needless to say, the table is produced by a script 20:32 < jjmcd> Well, program 20:33 < Sparks> Cool 20:33 -!- oget is now known as oget_zzz 20:34 < Sparks> Okay, anything else on the F12 discussion? 20:34 < jjmcd> I need more comments on wiki page tho, or here or list 20:34 * jjmcd will blog on ppl issues 20:34 < Sparks> Excellent. 20:34 < Sparks> Okay.... moving on... 20:35 < Sparks> #topic Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid 20:35 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:35 < Sparks> quaid: Do you have an update for us? 20:35 < quaid> ok 20:35 < quaid> I may cover what was said last week, but ... 20:35 < quaid> we want an all-clear from Content Services; it sounds good, waiting also to see mhideo's plans. 20:36 < quaid> and I guess I still owe a write-up to f-a-b? 20:36 -!- Nirmal [n=npathak at nat/redhat-in/x-b83d32d96224e123] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:36 < quaid> yes, I do 20:36 < quaid> #action - quaid needs to send a "mother may we" email to f-a-b 20:37 < Sparks> ? 20:37 < Sparks> When do you think we'll be able to change over? ETA? 20:37 < quaid> well, this covers wiki content, we should be consensus seeking v. demanding :) 20:37 < quaid> no ETA, guess I need to articulate an actual plan with dates and stuffnow 20:37 < quaid> #action - quaid needs to specify an action plan around relicensing 20:38 < quaid> so, really ... no change from last week afair :/ 20:38 < Sparks> Okay... At least we are up to date. 20:39 < Sparks> Anyone have anything else? 20:39 < Sparks> #topic [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared open-source style guide] 20:39 < kgs> thank you for taking the lead here -- it sets a good example for other projects considering this stuff 20:39 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared open-source style guide] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:40 < Sparks> Okay... I think stickster asked me to add this to the agenda... 20:40 < Sparks> but I haven't really had time to look at it... 20:40 < Sparks> so I don't have anything to say about it, yet. 20:41 < Sparks> Would anyone like to say anything about it? 20:41 < zoglesby> ? 20:41 < Sparks> Go ahead Zach. 20:41 < zoglesby> I am not sure the point, every group works diffrent, would a guide that basic be worth the time? 20:42 < Sparks> Yeah, I'm not sure of their end result. 20:42 * jjmcd had similar concerns 20:42 < Sparks> #action Sparks to find out more information on the shared style guide request. 20:43 < zoglesby> eof 20:44 < Sparks> Anyone else? 20:44 < jjmcd> I can see some benefit from shared development 20:44 < jjmcd> and idea generation but wonder whether the benefit is worth it since it wouild need to be so generic 20:44 < jjmcd> eof 20:45 < Sparks> Yeah, that's the problem I've been fighting... 20:45 < Sparks> I'll try to get more information for next week. 20:45 < Sparks> Anyone else? 20:45 < Sparks> #topic [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq 20:45 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:46 < Sparks> Is ke4qqq here tonight? 20:46 < Sparks> I guess not. 20:46 < zoglesby> ? 20:47 < Sparks> So I think all the modules have been packaged, now. 20:47 < zoglesby> How much stuff got packaged and is there a list of wats left? 20:47 < zoglesby> oh i can read! 20:47 -!- kgs [n=kgs at c-69-254-162-212.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]"] 20:47 < Sparks> One of my packages got rejected due to a licensing issue so I'll be working with Simon to figure out what's going on. 20:48 < ianweller> there's no such thing as a "rejected" package 20:48 < Sparks> zoglesby: Yeah, there might be one left. Get with me afterwards and I'll check BZ. 20:48 < ianweller> just one that isn't approved yet 20:48 < ianweller> unless it's in ForbiddenItems 20:48 * ianweller heads back out 20:48 < Sparks> Yeah... what he said. 20:48 < zoglesby> what was the license? 20:48 < Sparks> CC-BY-SA 2.5 20:49 < Sparks> Which is not compatible with GPL 20:49 < zoglesby> did anyone contact the dev yet? 20:50 < Sparks> This project is being planned to be online within 60 days. We've asked poelcat to assist us with the PM. 20:50 < Sparks> zoglesby: Yeah, Simon (itbegins) is our developer contact. 20:51 < Sparks> Anyone have any other questions or comments? 20:51 < Sparks> #topic [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes 20:51 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:51 < Sparks> Okay, we haven't talked about this one in a while... 20:52 < Sparks> I think ianweller is planning on getting the wikibot working 20:52 < Sparks> this summer so hopefully we'll be able to let the bot 20:52 < Sparks> loose to do some of our work for us. 20:53 < Sparks> Anyone have any questions or comments? 20:54 < Sparks> #topic Calendar 20:54 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Calendar (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:54 < Sparks> Well, poelcat just sent me a message on #fedora-docs about an .ics file that he is working on for F12. 20:55 < Sparks> I'm sure he'll put stuff on there for us so that might be the short term solution... 20:55 < Sparks> until we get our calendaring solution. 20:56 < Sparks> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12.ics 20:56 < zoglesby> +1 20:56 < poelcat> easiest way to get stuff into TJ/ics file is email with with: 20:56 < poelcat> 1) name of task (using action words/verbs) 20:56 < poelcat> 2) start date 20:56 < poelcat> 3) how many days it takes 20:56 < poelcat> 4) dependency on other tasks 20:57 < Sparks> Cool! 20:57 < Sparks> anyone have any questions or comments? 20:57 < Sparks> Thanks poelcat 20:57 * poelcat needs to publish draft of docs schedule for f12 so you all can pick it apart 20:57 < poelcat> will target fri or monday 20:58 < Sparks> poelcat: That will be great. 20:58 < Sparks> #topic All other business 20:58 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: All other business (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:58 < Sparks> Okay, due to the hour... Does anyone have anything they want to talk about? 20:58 < radsy> ! 20:59 < Sparks> radsy: Go ahead 20:59 < radsy> #link http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/html-single/#chap-Managing_Confined_Services-Squid_Caching_Proxy is what i'm working on, for those interested in a look 20:59 < radsy> eof 20:59 < Sparks> radsy: Very cool. Do you need any additional resources? 20:59 < radsy> no 20:59 -!- phunster [n=phunster at pool-74-105-133-148.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?"] 21:00 < Sparks> Okay, anyone else? 21:00 < perspectival> I think I'll take this time to speak up 21:00 < Sparks> perspectival: Go ahead 21:01 < perspectival> I'm Silas and I'm going to be working on the Deployment Guide for F12 21:01 < perspectival> there is a new branch in svn 21:01 < perspectival> unfortunately that's about all I know at this point :-) but I did want to say hello and let you all know about it 21:02 < quaid> howdy 21:02 < Sparks> perspectival: How different in mission is the Deployment Guide from the Installation Guide? 21:02 < perspectival> So Greetings! 21:02 < perspectival> the deployment guide is different in that it's more of a system administration guide 21:03 < Sparks> perspectival: Excellent! Do you need any resources? 21:03 < perspectival> I will pass on that question until next time if you don't mind 21:03 < perspectival> still figuring out the way forward ;-) 21:03 < Sparks> perspectival: No problem! 21:03 < perspectival> I am accepting any and all hints and tips at this point though 21:03 < perspectival> am paying attention to fedora-docs list, etc. 21:04 < perspectival> 21:04 -!- phunster [n=lanny at pool-74-105-133-148.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:04 < Sparks> Okay. 21:04 < Sparks> Anyone else? 21:05 < Sparks> Okay, I'm calling it a night then... 21:05 < Sparks> 5 21:06 < Sparks> 4 21:06 < Sparks> 3 21:06 < Sparks> 2 21:06 < Sparks> 1 21:06 < Sparks> #endmeeting 21:06 < fedbot> Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 01:08:31 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . 21:06 < fedbot> Minutes: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-18-00.03.html 21:06 < fedbot> Log: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-18-00.03.log.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 18 13:15:15 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:15:15 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-06-18 IRC log Message-ID: <1245330915.3229.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> 20:00 < Sparks> #startmeeting 20:00 < Sparks> #meetingtopic Docs Meeting 20:00 < fedbot> Meeting started Thu Jun 18 00:03:00 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. 20:00 < fedbot> Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot , Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 20:00 < Sparks> #topic Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 20:00 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:01 < radsy> oooh, that's cool 20:01 < Sparks> Roll Call 20:01 * Sparks is here 20:01 * radsy is here 20:02 * jjmcd would like to clear by 0100Z 20:02 -!- perspectival [n=perspect at nat/redhat/x-89dafd55555a2d14] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 -!- dychen_ [n=dingyich at nat/redhat/x-ac59ff8e41efadde] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 -!- rudi [n=rlandman at nat/redhat/x-e63492226f2688bc] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:03 * ianweller is sorta kind here maybe 20:03 * rudi is here 20:03 < Sparks> jjmcd: me too 20:03 < jjmcd> Japanese Game Show? 20:03 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes 20:03 < jjmcd> ;-) 20:05 * kgs wonders if visitors introduce themselves 20:05 < Sparks> sure! 20:05 < Sparks> Okay, let's get started... 20:05 < Sparks> #topic Meeting procedures 20:05 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Meeting procedures (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:06 < Sparks> You may have noticed that we have a new bot in the room with us taking notes. Fedbot is a new bot that automates some channel maintenance for the OPs but also has some real nifty meeting commands as well. You can read more about this bot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 20:06 * quaid is here now 20:06 -!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 20:06 < Sparks> To get the most out of this bot we should learn to use the following commands: 20:06 < Sparks> info - Add an info item to the minutes. People should liberally use this for important things they say, so that they can be logged in the minutes. 20:06 < Sparks> action - Document an action item in the minutes. Include any nicknames in the line, and the item will be assigned to them. (nicknames are case-sensitive) 20:06 < Sparks> idea - Add an idea to the minutes. 20:06 < Sparks> help - Add a "Call for Help" to the minutes. Use this command when you need to recruit someone to do a task. (Counter-intuitively, this doesn't provide help on the bot) 20:06 < Sparks> link - Add a link to the meeting minutes. The link should be the first non-command on the line, other commentary after the link is OK. Links beginning with http:// and a few other protocols are automatically detected. 20:06 < Sparks> All commands start with a # so you have to use that (i.e. #idea). 20:06 * Sparks pauses for any query... 20:06 < quaid> what does the result look like? 20:07 * zoglesby is here 20:07 < quaid> I've seen a log before, but it was just bold faced stuff 20:07 * nirik notes he will in the next few days be getting it setup to log to a fedoraproject machine and run from zodbot. 20:07 < Sparks> quaid: I don't know. I guess we'll see 20:07 < quaid> ah, Ok 20:07 < nirik> output looks like: http://fedorapeople.org/~kevin/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-12-17.01.html 20:07 < quaid> so it's somewhat data capture for now? we don't have it auto-generating logs for mailing lists, etc yet? 20:08 < quaid> ah! 20:08 < Sparks> Hmmm... 20:08 < Sparks> Yeah, that's going to take some getting used to. 20:08 < quaid> ok, much better, thanks; I'd only seen a straight IRC log generation 20:09 < nirik> not yet, but I am working with upstream and he's been fixing things like mad. ;) 20:09 < nirik> if anyone has suggestions/changes/thoughts, feel free to ping me with them and I will pass them on. 20:09 < Sparks> nirik: I'll probably have some for you in an hour. 20:09 < nirik> sounds good. ;) 20:10 < Sparks> Okay... 20:10 -!- Irssi: Pasting 7 lines to #fedora-meeting. Press Ctrl-K if you wish to do this or Ctrl-C to cancel. 20:10 < Sparks> I'd also like to start using Meeting Protocols (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/IRCHowTo#Meeting_Protocol) for our meetings. I think it will help keep the momentum up and we won't waste time. 20:10 < Sparks> Basically, all you have to do is follow these simple instructions: 20:10 < Sparks> 1. Please watch what others are doing and do not interrupt 20:10 < Sparks> 2. If you have a question, type "?" 20:10 < Sparks> 3. If you need to speak, type "!" 20:10 < Sparks> 4. If you're done speaking, type "eof" 20:10 < Sparks> 5. If you agree, type "+1" 20:11 < Sparks> Any questions or comments? 20:11 < quaid> hmmm 20:11 < quaid> I won't say no personally, but 20:11 < quaid> I've found those to be most helpful where the common language 20:11 < quaid> is not the first language spoken of participants. 20:12 < quaid> so, it would be a good practice to welcome non-native English speakers 20:12 < quaid> but it does interrupt flow 20:12 < quaid> 20:12 < ianweller> +1 20:12 < Sparks> Well, we seem to take a while typing things we want to say and I'm not sure if I'm waiting for someone to respond or not. 20:13 < radsy> +1 20:13 < ianweller> (oh by the way i was +1ing quaid) 20:13 < quaid> Sparks: I do like eof as a convention, yeah 20:13 < quaid> it's a kindness 20:14 < Sparks> I'm not looking for strict adherence... but just for folks to keep in mind if they want to say something so I know they are typing something 20:15 < Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything else to say before we move on to the REAL important stuff? 20:16 < radsy> no 20:16 < rudi> no 20:16 < jjmcd> ^Z 20:16 < Sparks> #topic [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report 20:16 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[FAD SELF 2009]] After action report (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:16 < Sparks> We had a wonderful time at the Fedora Activity Day (FAD) after SELF in Clemson. We had a couple of participants that remotely attended the session and six people who were physically in Clemson. 20:17 < Sparks> Everyone should have received the final "notes" from the FAD. 20:17 < Sparks> Has everyone had a change to look over the notes? 20:17 < Sparks> And does anyone have any questions about the FAD? 20:17 < jjmcd> ? 20:17 < Sparks> jjmcd: Yes 20:18 < jjmcd> Do we have a plan to get names attached to those action items not taken? 20:19 < Sparks> jjmcd: Not as of yet. But we should. If you want to take something then go for it. 20:19 < jjmcd> ! 20:19 < Sparks> Oh I see this going badly 20:19 < Sparks> jjmcd: yes? 20:19 < jjmcd> We should also take poelcat's suggestion to use that list and the retrospective list as a potential task list for new joiners 20:19 < Sparks> +1 20:20 < jjmcd> eof 20:20 < zoglesby> +1 20:20 < quaid> ! Sparks: one option is to have people just ! and ? then speak, without being cleared by the moderator; that is, self-police a bit :) 20:20 < Sparks> Yes... 20:20 < Sparks> I guess that's kinda what I meant. 20:20 < Sparks> quaid: Thank you 20:20 < jjmcd> ! 20:20 < jjmcd> Doesn't make a lot of diff when you type as slow as me 20:20 < Sparks> :) 20:21 < Sparks> jjmcd: I'll try to put together a list of items to do from the FAD and let's see what we can get done. 20:21 -!- uclugLee [n=Lee at 75-130-149-037.dhcp-v.spbg.sc.charter.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:21 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma at 201.102.115.156] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:21 -!- SMParrish [n=quassel at cpe-069-134-255-095.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:21 < zoglesby> ? 20:21 < uclugLee> Greetings and salutations. 20:21 < Sparks> Yes Zach 20:22 < zoglesby> Did we get anywere with the calendar after the FAD? 20:22 < Sparks> zoglesby: Kinda... I want to talk to poelcat to see if he can help. 20:22 < zoglesby> I didn't see it in the notes, but we talked about it for a while 20:22 < zoglesby> ok 20:22 < zoglesby> eof 20:22 < Sparks> zoglesby: There is a calendaring program coming down the line 20:23 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma at 189.143.130.221] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:23 < Sparks> Anything else for the FAD? 20:24 < Sparks> #topic [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] 20:24 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[Docs_decisions_for_F12]] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:24 < Sparks> jjmcd: Would you like to talk about this since you started the topic? 20:24 < jjmcd> Well I think we covered a lot Sunday 20:25 < jjmcd> We have some new ideas on RN's 20:25 -!- constanton [n=constant at athedsl-4503894.home.otenet.gr] has quit ["Lost terminal"] 20:25 -!- charlymanja [n=charlyma at 189.143.130.221] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25 < jjmcd> Content, perhaps a totally new organization, I see some more ideas on f-d-l 20:25 < jjmcd> We have a better understanding on the l10n issues, as well as the codes (although no decisiosn there) 20:26 < jjmcd> Rudi has prempted the Publican question ;-)) 20:26 < Sparks> :) 20:26 < rudi> :D 20:26 < jjmcd> Still no real answer on homepage and how to actually present them 20:26 < jjmcd> I think we have some really good plans tho 20:26 < jjmcd> but we need to share them more widely before implementing 20:27 -!- sankarshan [n=sankarsh at fedora/sankarshan] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:27 < jjmcd> Not sure we are necessarily aware of the URQs 20:27 < jjmcd> eof 20:27 < Sparks> URQs? 20:27 < jjmcd> User Requirements 20:27 -!- sankarshan [n=sankarsh at fedora/sankarshan] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)] 20:27 < Sparks> Ahh 20:27 < jjmcd> <---- requirements geek 20:27 < Sparks> I think one thing that stickster had a good idea about was the different expectations... 20:28 < Sparks> by different users. One set wants the one page, with pictures, RNs while... 20:28 < jjmcd> Yes. I think the breaking down into different formats langs has some merit 20:28 < Sparks> the more techy group wants the 1000 page RNs with all the info. 20:28 < jjmcd> but that is a big change that probably negatively impacts someone 20:28 < jjmcd> Yes 20:28 < jjmcd> ALtho I still think that ALL the changes with just a link covers 95% of that 20:29 < Sparks> I want to talk with the Marketing folks about it more. 20:29 < jjmcd> as in the example I pointed to somewhere 20:30 < jjmcd> wait 20:30 < jjmcd> #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Jjmcd/Drafts/Test_of_table_RNs 20:30 < jjmcd> Did everyone get a look at that? 20:30 < jjmcd> highlight a few biggies and list all the rest 20:31 < Sparks> I didn't... Have now 20:31 < jjmcd> reduces translation and increases the data 20:31 -!- joat [n=joat at ip70-174-79-200.hr.hr.cox.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:31 < Sparks> Good combinations 20:31 < jjmcd> THat way qnyone waiting for a feature/bugfix can see if its there 20:32 < jjmcd> Needless to say, the table is produced by a script 20:32 < jjmcd> Well, program 20:33 < Sparks> Cool 20:33 -!- oget is now known as oget_zzz 20:34 < Sparks> Okay, anything else on the F12 discussion? 20:34 < jjmcd> I need more comments on wiki page tho, or here or list 20:34 * jjmcd will blog on ppl issues 20:34 < Sparks> Excellent. 20:34 < Sparks> Okay.... moving on... 20:35 < Sparks> #topic Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid 20:35 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Status on [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:35 < Sparks> quaid: Do you have an update for us? 20:35 < quaid> ok 20:35 < quaid> I may cover what was said last week, but ... 20:35 < quaid> we want an all-clear from Content Services; it sounds good, waiting also to see mhideo's plans. 20:36 < quaid> and I guess I still owe a write-up to f-a-b? 20:36 -!- Nirmal [n=npathak at nat/redhat-in/x-b83d32d96224e123] has joined #fedora-meeting 20:36 < quaid> yes, I do 20:36 < quaid> #action - quaid needs to send a "mother may we" email to f-a-b 20:37 < Sparks> ? 20:37 < Sparks> When do you think we'll be able to change over? ETA? 20:37 < quaid> well, this covers wiki content, we should be consensus seeking v. demanding :) 20:37 < quaid> no ETA, guess I need to articulate an actual plan with dates and stuffnow 20:37 < quaid> #action - quaid needs to specify an action plan around relicensing 20:38 < quaid> so, really ... no change from last week afair :/ 20:38 < Sparks> Okay... At least we are up to date. 20:39 < Sparks> Anyone have anything else? 20:39 < Sparks> #topic [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared open-source style guide] 20:39 < kgs> thank you for taking the lead here -- it sets a good example for other projects considering this stuff 20:39 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html Shared open-source style guide] (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:40 < Sparks> Okay... I think stickster asked me to add this to the agenda... 20:40 < Sparks> but I haven't really had time to look at it... 20:40 < Sparks> so I don't have anything to say about it, yet. 20:41 < Sparks> Would anyone like to say anything about it? 20:41 < zoglesby> ? 20:41 < Sparks> Go ahead Zach. 20:41 < zoglesby> I am not sure the point, every group works diffrent, would a guide that basic be worth the time? 20:42 < Sparks> Yeah, I'm not sure of their end result. 20:42 * jjmcd had similar concerns 20:42 < Sparks> #action Sparks to find out more information on the shared style guide request. 20:43 < zoglesby> eof 20:44 < Sparks> Anyone else? 20:44 < jjmcd> I can see some benefit from shared development 20:44 < jjmcd> and idea generation but wonder whether the benefit is worth it since it wouild need to be so generic 20:44 < jjmcd> eof 20:45 < Sparks> Yeah, that's the problem I've been fighting... 20:45 < Sparks> I'll try to get more information for next week. 20:45 < Sparks> Anyone else? 20:45 < Sparks> #topic [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq 20:45 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[CMS_solution_for_Fedora_Project_websites | CMS Update]] <-- ke4qqq (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:46 < Sparks> Is ke4qqq here tonight? 20:46 < Sparks> I guess not. 20:46 < zoglesby> ? 20:47 < Sparks> So I think all the modules have been packaged, now. 20:47 < zoglesby> How much stuff got packaged and is there a list of wats left? 20:47 < zoglesby> oh i can read! 20:47 -!- kgs [n=kgs at c-69-254-162-212.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit ["ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.11/2009060215]"] 20:47 < Sparks> One of my packages got rejected due to a licensing issue so I'll be working with Simon to figure out what's going on. 20:48 < ianweller> there's no such thing as a "rejected" package 20:48 < Sparks> zoglesby: Yeah, there might be one left. Get with me afterwards and I'll check BZ. 20:48 < ianweller> just one that isn't approved yet 20:48 < ianweller> unless it's in ForbiddenItems 20:48 * ianweller heads back out 20:48 < Sparks> Yeah... what he said. 20:48 < zoglesby> what was the license? 20:48 < Sparks> CC-BY-SA 2.5 20:49 < Sparks> Which is not compatible with GPL 20:49 < zoglesby> did anyone contact the dev yet? 20:50 < Sparks> This project is being planned to be online within 60 days. We've asked poelcat to assist us with the PM. 20:50 < Sparks> zoglesby: Yeah, Simon (itbegins) is our developer contact. 20:51 < Sparks> Anyone have any other questions or comments? 20:51 < Sparks> #topic [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes 20:51 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:51 < Sparks> Okay, we haven't talked about this one in a while... 20:52 < Sparks> I think ianweller is planning on getting the wikibot working 20:52 < Sparks> this summer so hopefully we'll be able to let the bot 20:52 < Sparks> loose to do some of our work for us. 20:53 < Sparks> Anyone have any questions or comments? 20:54 < Sparks> #topic Calendar 20:54 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Calendar (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:54 < Sparks> Well, poelcat just sent me a message on #fedora-docs about an .ics file that he is working on for F12. 20:55 < Sparks> I'm sure he'll put stuff on there for us so that might be the short term solution... 20:55 < Sparks> until we get our calendaring solution. 20:56 < Sparks> #link http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12.ics 20:56 < zoglesby> +1 20:56 < poelcat> easiest way to get stuff into TJ/ics file is email with with: 20:56 < poelcat> 1) name of task (using action words/verbs) 20:56 < poelcat> 2) start date 20:56 < poelcat> 3) how many days it takes 20:56 < poelcat> 4) dependency on other tasks 20:57 < Sparks> Cool! 20:57 < Sparks> anyone have any questions or comments? 20:57 < Sparks> Thanks poelcat 20:57 * poelcat needs to publish draft of docs schedule for f12 so you all can pick it apart 20:57 < poelcat> will target fri or monday 20:58 < Sparks> poelcat: That will be great. 20:58 < Sparks> #topic All other business 20:58 -!- fedbot changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: All other business (Meeting topic: Docs Meeting) 20:58 < Sparks> Okay, due to the hour... Does anyone have anything they want to talk about? 20:58 < radsy> ! 20:59 < Sparks> radsy: Go ahead 20:59 < radsy> #link http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/html-single/#chap-Managing_Confined_Services-Squid_Caching_Proxy is what i'm working on, for those interested in a look 20:59 < radsy> eof 20:59 < Sparks> radsy: Very cool. Do you need any additional resources? 20:59 < radsy> no 20:59 -!- phunster [n=phunster at pool-74-105-133-148.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit ["What if the hokey pokey really is what it's all about?"] 21:00 < Sparks> Okay, anyone else? 21:00 < perspectival> I think I'll take this time to speak up 21:00 < Sparks> perspectival: Go ahead 21:01 < perspectival> I'm Silas and I'm going to be working on the Deployment Guide for F12 21:01 < perspectival> there is a new branch in svn 21:01 < perspectival> unfortunately that's about all I know at this point :-) but I did want to say hello and let you all know about it 21:02 < quaid> howdy 21:02 < Sparks> perspectival: How different in mission is the Deployment Guide from the Installation Guide? 21:02 < perspectival> So Greetings! 21:02 < perspectival> the deployment guide is different in that it's more of a system administration guide 21:03 < Sparks> perspectival: Excellent! Do you need any resources? 21:03 < perspectival> I will pass on that question until next time if you don't mind 21:03 < perspectival> still figuring out the way forward ;-) 21:03 < Sparks> perspectival: No problem! 21:03 < perspectival> I am accepting any and all hints and tips at this point though 21:03 < perspectival> am paying attention to fedora-docs list, etc. 21:04 < perspectival> 21:04 -!- phunster [n=lanny at pool-74-105-133-148.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #fedora-meeting 21:04 < Sparks> Okay. 21:04 < Sparks> Anyone else? 21:05 < Sparks> Okay, I'm calling it a night then... 21:05 < Sparks> 5 21:06 < Sparks> 4 21:06 < Sparks> 3 21:06 < Sparks> 2 21:06 < Sparks> 1 21:06 < Sparks> #endmeeting 21:06 < fedbot> Meeting ended Thu Jun 18 01:08:31 2009 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . 21:06 < fedbot> Minutes: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-18-00.03.html 21:06 < fedbot> Log: http://www.scrye.com/~kevin/fedora/fedora-meeting/2009/fedora-meeting.2009-06-18-00.03.log.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 18 13:44:45 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 09:44:45 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Fedora 12 Release Schedule and Goals] Message-ID: <1245332685.3229.36.camel@localhost.localdomain> Looks like a good start for the RNs... -------- Forwarded Message -------- From: Rahul Sundaram Reply-to: sundaram at fedoraproject.org, For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base , lwn at lwn.net, Ladislav Bodnar , editors at lxer.com, news at phoronix.com, Chris Subject: Fedora 12 Release Schedule and Goals Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:15:11 +0530 Hi http://news.softpedia.com/news/Fedora-12-Release-Schedule-and-Goals-114542.shtml The ongoing feature list is at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/12/FeatureList "This is the official release schedule, but everyone knows that it might change in time, and the final version could be delayed a few weeks. For Fedora 12, the development team will prepare new and exciting features, such as: ? GNOME 2.28 desktop environment ? KDE 4.3 desktop environment ? PolicyKit ? IPv6 and system-wide connections support for NetworkManager ? liblvm (LVM userspace library) ? Empathy (Pidgin replacement) ? debuginfo filesystem ? Multiseat ? Dracut (mkinitrd/nash replacement) ? Systemtap Static Probes ? OpenOffice 3 ? and many more!" Rahul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kgs at esilibrary.com Thu Jun 18 14:36:10 2009 From: kgs at esilibrary.com (Karen Schneider) Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2009 10:36:10 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-06-18 Summary In-Reply-To: <1245330829.3229.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1245330829.3229.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: > * We had a request to join a "shared open-source style guide" group. I > think this request left us all scratching our heads a bit. Sparks will > be following up on this request to determine what exactly the request is > for. This agenda item actually why I (kgs) was on IRC at 8 p.m. last night instead of chillin' out with a homebrew in front of the idiot box, so I'll toss in my thoughts: coming from a brand-new documentation project (for Evergreen open source library software), how to structure a styleguide and what it should contain are really key questions. I have some sample guides, though they are from companies that shared them with me one-on-one so I can't really post them. A generic styleguide could be very helpful. There is a tendency among people new to documentation to want to focus on "style" versus structure and semantic markup, which is really important to address, and then for a project new to DocBook, identifying a tag subset congruent with a distributed volunteer corps of XML n00bs (me included) is also important. Having looked at the guide close-up last night, I must say it's helpful in a broad, generic sense, but it needs a lot of fill-in-the-blank to become more useful. It would probably be more helpful to our project to continue to look at other style guides (such as, but certainly not limited to Fedora's) and mix and match as is appropriate. -- -- | Karen G. Schneider | Community Librarian | Equinox Software Inc. "The Evergreen Experts" | Toll-free: 1.877.Open.ILS (1.877.673.6457) x712 | kgs at esilibrary.com | Web: http://www.esilibrary.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Fri Jun 19 08:25:36 2009 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Fri, 19 Jun 2009 10:25:36 +0200 Subject: Great Fedora 11 install guide and lots of tips and tricks Message-ID: <64b14b300906190125j3d811073v78e30c36d449e8dd@mail.gmail.com> http://is.gd/164qb Great Fedora 11 install guide and lots of post install tips and tricks -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From kushaldas at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 08:28:20 2009 From: kushaldas at gmail.com (Kushal Das) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 13:58:20 +0530 Subject: How to create a pdf in A5 pagesize from publican Message-ID: Hi, I am trying to create a pdf in A5 as page size from publican. How can I do this ? I tried to change paper.type to A5 in /usr/share/publican/xsl/pdf.xsl , but the output looks really crappy. Kushal -- http://fedoraproject.org http://kushaldas.in From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 22:34:29 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 04:04:29 +0530 Subject: How to create a pdf in A5 pagesize from publican Message-ID: <78323d480906221534j31c31eafj63ea45c0382a46f@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009, Kushal Das wrote: > I am trying to create a pdf in A5 as page size from publican. How can > I do this ? > I tried to change paper.type to A5 in /usr/share/publican/xsl/pdf.xsl > , but the output looks really crappy. Maybe you need to fine tune everything. Specify 'crappy' http://www.sagehill.net/docbookxsl/PrintOutput.html#PaperSize Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://amani.topcities.com http://www.logicamani.co.cc From adelessafi at gmail.com Mon Jun 22 23:00:13 2009 From: adelessafi at gmail.com (Adel ESSAFI) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 00:00:13 +0100 Subject: kcron Message-ID: Hi all I have discovered today that the kcron tool has changed in F11. the documentation is not up to date would you that I write a new version of the task scheduler in F11. Regards Adel -- http://ilovefedora.blogspot.com/ -- PhD candidate in Computer Science Address BP 108, Bureau de poste Tunis republique 1001 Tunis Tunisia tel: +216 97 246 706 fax: +216 71 391 166 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From r.landmann at redhat.com Mon Jun 22 23:28:34 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 09:28:34 +1000 Subject: How to create a pdf in A5 pagesize from publican In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A4013A2.8060209@redhat.com> On 06/22/2009 06:28 PM, Kushal Das wrote: > I am trying to create a pdf in A5 as page size from publican. How can > I do this ? > I tried to change paper.type to A5 in /usr/share/publican/xsl/pdf.xsl > , but the output looks really crappy. > This is what I got back from Jeff Fearn, the developer: "Not out of the box, it's a lot more involved than just changing the paper size to make something look good. See discussion: https://www.redhat.com/archives/publican-list/2009-May/msg00000.html " Hope this helps From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Jun 23 01:13:22 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:13:22 -0700 Subject: CMS (Zikula) kick-off Message-ID: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> Hi, I've volunteered to help kick off and facilitate the Fedora cross-team CMS (Zicula) planning and implementation meetings. I think things will work best if each team puts forth a representative. We will hold our meetings on IRC or over Fedora Talk and they will be open to anyone, but it will make it easier to schedule and coordinate the meetings if I know who the key people from each team are. I believe the key teams we need representatives from are: Documentation, Design, and Marketing. Are there any others? Once I know who the key people are I'll reach out to those people to find a meeting time and day that works best. I'd like to get a response by Thursday, June 25, 2009, so we can kick things off. Thanks, John From ricky at fedoraproject.org Tue Jun 23 01:27:32 2009 From: ricky at fedoraproject.org (Ricky Zhou) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:27:32 -0400 Subject: CMS (Zikula) kick-off In-Reply-To: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> References: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090623012732.GB1344@alpha.rzhou.org> On 2009-06-22 06:13:22 PM, John Poelstra wrote: > I've volunteered to help kick off and facilitate the Fedora cross-team > CMS (Zicula) planning and implementation meetings. I think things will > work best if each team puts forth a representative. We will hold our > meetings on IRC or over Fedora Talk and they will be open to anyone, but > it will make it easier to schedule and coordinate the meetings if I know > who the key people from each team are. I'd prefer IRC if possible, since that's a loewr barrier for most people and easier to get a full log of. > I believe the key teams we need representatives from are: Documentation, > Design, and Marketing. Are there any others? It might be good to let Infrastructure know about this on list as well, although I think there is already a person who is the main contact from Infrastructure for this. Thanks, Ricky -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 23 02:26:07 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 22:26:07 -0400 Subject: CMS (Zikula) kick-off In-Reply-To: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> References: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1245723967.4383.13.camel@thunder> On Mon, 2009-06-22 at 18:13 -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > Hi, Hi John, Thanks for helping with this project. Hopefully we're getting nearer to having everything packaged. > > I've volunteered to help kick off and facilitate the Fedora cross-team > CMS (Zicula) planning and implementation meetings. I think things will > work best if each team puts forth a representative. We will hold our > meetings on IRC or over Fedora Talk and they will be open to anyone, but > it will make it easier to schedule and coordinate the meetings if I know > who the key people from each team are. There are a handful of people I can think of that should be included in these meetings: David Nalley (ke4qqq), Simon Birtwistle (itbegins) (who is with Zikula), and myself. I think Talk would be a good solution so we aren't waiting for typed responses. We can capture the notes on Gobby to post on the wiki so people can be reminded of their particular tasks. > > I believe the key teams we need representatives from are: Documentation, > Design, and Marketing. Are there any others? Infrastructure > > Once I know who the key people are I'll reach out to those people to > find a meeting time and day that works best. I'd like to get a response > by Thursday, June 25, 2009, so we can kick things off. > > Thanks, > John > Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From a.badger at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 04:17:10 2009 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:17:10 -0700 Subject: CMS (Zikula) kick-off In-Reply-To: <1245723967.4383.13.camel@thunder> References: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> <1245723967.4383.13.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A405746.2010904@gmail.com> On 06/22/2009 07:26 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, 2009-06-22 at 18:13 -0700, John Poelstra wrote: >> Hi, > Hi John, > Thanks for helping with this project. Hopefully we're getting nearer to > having everything packaged. >> >> I've volunteered to help kick off and facilitate the Fedora cross-team >> CMS (Zicula) planning and implementation meetings. I think things will >> work best if each team puts forth a representative. We will hold our >> meetings on IRC or over Fedora Talk and they will be open to anyone, but >> it will make it easier to schedule and coordinate the meetings if I know >> who the key people from each team are. > > There are a handful of people I can think of that should be included in > these meetings: David Nalley (ke4qqq), Simon Birtwistle (itbegins) (who > is with Zikula), and myself. > > I think Talk would be a good solution so we aren't waiting for typed > responses. We can capture the notes on Gobby to post on the wiki so > people can be reminded of their particular tasks. > >> >> I believe the key teams we need representatives from are: Documentation, >> Design, and Marketing. Are there any others? > > Infrastructure > /me prefers IRC but doesn't have to be the Infrastructure guy. BTW: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Son,_the_Physicist for help on eliminating the perceived time lag with IRC :-) (Both joking and serious... Meetings that run smoothly and contain many thoughts seem to be able to take advantage of this pattern of communication) -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Tue Jun 23 12:31:30 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:31:30 -0400 Subject: CMS (Zikula) kick-off In-Reply-To: <1245723967.4383.13.camel@thunder> References: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> <1245723967.4383.13.camel@thunder> Message-ID: On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, 2009-06-22 at 18:13 -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > > Hi, > Hi John, > Thanks for helping with this project. Hopefully we're getting nearer to > having everything packaged. > > > yes, thanks John! > > > I've volunteered to help kick off and facilitate the Fedora cross-team > > CMS (Zicula) planning and implementation meetings. I think things will > > work best if each team puts forth a representative. We will hold our > > meetings on IRC or over Fedora Talk and they will be open to anyone, but > > it will make it easier to schedule and coordinate the meetings if I know > > who the key people from each team are. > > There are a handful of people I can think of that should be included in > these meetings: David Nalley (ke4qqq), Simon Birtwistle (itbegins) (who > is with Zikula), and myself. > I would still like to be involved , though I find myself with very little time at the moment. > I think Talk would be a good solution so we aren't waiting for typed > responses. We can capture the notes on Gobby to post on the wiki so > people can be reminded of their particular tasks. > I prefer IRC since it is easier for me to at least partially participate if I am in the middle of teaching. > > > > I believe the key teams we need representatives from are: Documentation, > > Design, and Marketing. Are there any others? > > Infrastructure Packaging Guildelines was also looking at moving into the CMS instead of a locked down wiki namespace. I do not know if that is still a consideration or if the current wiki situation is working out better. > > > > Once I know who the key people are I'll reach out to those people to > > find a meeting time and day that works best. I'd like to get a response > > by Thursday, June 25, 2009, so we can kick things off. > > > > -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 23 12:59:04 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 08:59:04 -0400 Subject: kcron In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1245761944.5564.14.camel@thunder> On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 00:00 +0100, Adel ESSAFI wrote: > Hi all > > I have discovered today that the kcron tool has changed in F11. the > documentation is not up to date > would you that I write a new version of the task scheduler in F11. > > Regards > Adel Adel, You should file a bug against kcron and provide a patch with a fix for the documentation problem. I'm not familiar with "task scheduler". Is this a Fedora product? -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks at fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From adelessafi at gmail.com Tue Jun 23 14:26:31 2009 From: adelessafi at gmail.com (Adel ESSAFI) Date: Tue, 23 Jun 2009 15:26:31 +0100 Subject: kcron In-Reply-To: <1245761944.5564.14.camel@thunder> References: <1245761944.5564.14.camel@thunder> Message-ID: Hi Ecric the kcron does not exist in F11. [adel at localhost ~]$ kcron bash: kcron : commande introuvable however, this graphical tool for cron in F11 have been removed to the system-preference in kde 4. I want to write the new doc for this if it is not available. Regards Adel 2009/6/23 Eric Christensen > On Tue, 2009-06-23 at 00:00 +0100, Adel ESSAFI wrote: > > Hi all > > > > I have discovered today that the kcron tool has changed in F11. the > > documentation is not up to date > > would you that I write a new version of the task scheduler in F11. > > > > Regards > > Adel > > Adel, > You should file a bug against kcron and provide a patch with a fix for the > documentation problem. > > I'm not familiar with "task scheduler". Is this a Fedora product? > > -- > Thanks, > Eric Christensen > Fedora Docs Project > > Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 > E-Mail/SIP Address: sparks at fedoraproject.org > IRC: Sparks on freenode.net > > GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- http://ilovefedora.blogspot.com/ -- PhD candidate in Computer Science Address BP 108, Bureau de poste Tunis republique 1001 Tunis Tunisia tel: +216 97 246 706 fax: +216 71 391 166 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: capture d'?cran1.png Type: image/png Size: 79612 bytes Desc: not available URL: From simon at zikula.org Wed Jun 24 00:48:49 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 01:48:49 +0100 Subject: CMS (Zikula) kick-off In-Reply-To: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> References: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <00ab01c9f465$8ac52560$a04f7020$@org> > I've volunteered to help kick off and facilitate the Fedora cross-team > CMS (Zicula) planning and implementation meetings. I think things will > work best if each team puts forth a representative. We will hold our > meetings on IRC or over Fedora Talk and they will be open to anyone, > but > it will make it easier to schedule and coordinate the meetings if I > know > who the key people from each team are. > > I believe the key teams we need representatives from are: > Documentation, > Design, and Marketing. Are there any others? > > Once I know who the key people are I'll reach out to those people to > find a meeting time and day that works best. I'd like to get a > response > by Thursday, June 25, 2009, so we can kick things off. I am pretty much limited to IRC at the moment as my only access right now is to a Windows machine with XChat (I'm in the process of moving). Also, for the next 4 days I am travelling a lot, so if you are looking for a meeting in that time my availability will be quite limited. Simon (itbegins) From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 24 11:58:31 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 07:58:31 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder Message-ID: <1245844711.4409.0.camel@thunder> REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting. -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Lead Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Jun 24 12:44:57 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 08:44:57 -0400 Subject: [Zikula] More License Problems scribite! Message-ID: <1245847497.4409.19.camel@thunder> Simon, Repackaged the latest release of scribite! and thought I had looked everywhere to find any rouge (non-GPL) licenses. Unfortunately I missed the CC licenses that Toshio found[1] when he was doing his review. Can you take this for action, please? [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=506056#c5 Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From simon at zikula.org Wed Jun 24 12:53:33 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 13:53:33 +0100 Subject: [Zikula] More License Problems scribite! In-Reply-To: <1245847497.4409.19.camel@thunder> References: <1245847497.4409.19.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <004501c9f4ca$c95dd230$5c197690$@org> Sven, There are still some CC licenses in Xinha in your latest scribite package. See the bug report for details: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=506056#c5 I don't know Xinha well enough to know if these files are important or not. Do you think you could take a look? Simon > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Christensen [mailto:eric at christensenplace.us] > Sent: 24 June 2009 13:45 > To: simon at zikula.org > Cc: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Subject: [Zikula] More License Problems scribite! > > Simon, > Repackaged the latest release of scribite! and thought I had looked > everywhere to find any rouge (non-GPL) licenses. Unfortunately I > missed the CC licenses that Toshio found[1] when he was doing his > review. Can you take this for action, please? > > [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=506056#c5 > > Thanks, > Eric > > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.374 / Virus Database: 270.12.90/2198 - Release Date: > 06/23/09 17:54:00 From frankly3d at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 13:04:23 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:04:23 +0100 Subject: Online Poll Message-ID: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> Forgive the Noise, but am unsure of correct list. I would like to organise a poll amongst Fedora Developers. to ascertain tools\sdks used etc.. Is that something that docs does? Frank -- jabber | msn | skype: frankly3d (Skype will be scrapped as my im 1st July 2009) http://www.frankly3d.com From stickster at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 13:20:04 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:20:04 +0200 Subject: Online Poll In-Reply-To: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> References: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 02:04:23PM +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > Forgive the Noise, > but am unsure of correct list. > > > I would like to organise a poll amongst Fedora Developers. > to ascertain tools\sdks used etc.. > > Is that something that docs does? Not currently, but it would be possible to have a polling module in the new CMS, am I correct? How self-service could we make such a module? I think we don't want a million polls asking "What's the best desktop environment?", but having a poll every couple weeks on a topic that could actually benefit from the input makes sense to me. There was talk about using LimeSurvey, which is fully open source, to do this. But someone needs to actually work on packaging that code, getting it into Fedora and EPEL, and otherwise working with Infrastructure to stand up a polling system. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From frankly3d at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 13:24:17 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 14:24:17 +0100 Subject: Online Poll In-Reply-To: <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> References: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A422901.8000609@gmail.com> On 24/06/09 14:20, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 02:04:23PM +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > >> I would like to organise a poll amongst Fedora Developers. >> to ascertain tools\sdks used etc.. >but it would be possible to have a polling module in > the new CMS, am I correct? How self-service could we make such a > module? I think we don't want a million polls asking "What's the best > desktop environment?", but having a poll every couple weeks on a topic > that could actually benefit from the input makes sense to me. From my end, it's really a direction to rekindle the Devel-Sig\Spin down the road. Frank From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Jun 24 14:09:33 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 19:39:33 +0530 Subject: Online Poll In-Reply-To: <4A422901.8000609@gmail.com> References: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> <4A422901.8000609@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A42339D.1020803@fedoraproject.org> On 06/24/2009 06:54 PM, Frank Murphy wrote: > On 24/06/09 14:20, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 02:04:23PM +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: >> >>> I would like to organise a poll amongst Fedora Developers. >>> to ascertain tools\sdks used etc.. > > >> but it would be possible to have a polling module in >> the new CMS, am I correct? How self-service could we make such a >> module? I think we don't want a million polls asking "What's the best >> desktop environment?", but having a poll every couple weeks on a topic >> that could actually benefit from the input makes sense to me. > > From my end, it's really a direction to rekindle the Devel-Sig\Spin > down the road. You are better doing the ground work based on your ideas instead of polling developers in fedora-devel list. When you have something substantial, like a working kickstart file for example, feedback can be more directed. Rahul From frankly3d at gmail.com Wed Jun 24 14:16:42 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:16:42 +0100 Subject: Online Poll In-Reply-To: <4A42339D.1020803@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> <4A422901.8000609@gmail.com> <4A42339D.1020803@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4A42354A.6050801@gmail.com> On 24/06/09 15:09, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 06/24/2009 06:54 PM, Frank Murphy wrote: >> >> From my end, it's really a direction to rekindle the Devel-Sig\Spin >> down the road. > > You are better doing the ground work based on your ideas instead of > polling developers in fedora-devel list. When you have something > substantial, like a working kickstart file for example, feedback can be > more directed. > > Rahul > Normally I would agree, but in this instance. I would like to know if there are nonpackaged items that devs would like to see. So things can be included at the start. I may also inquire of Upstream, as to tools used. Frank From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 01:58:16 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 18:58:16 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) Message-ID: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the Release Notes and the Installation Guide. Currently the works are under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. This move is supported (actually, recommended) by Red Hat's Legal team. The full discussion with Richard Fontana occured on fedora-docs-list[1] and via fedora-legal-list[2]. It is worth reviewing to understand approaches for past and future works. Richard states in his initial opinion in reply to Spot: On Tue, 26 May 2009 17:29:20 -0400 "Tom \"spot\" Callaway" wrote: > I know Richard reads fedora-legal-list, so I'll wait for him to > chime in, but in the past, he's expressed that he would very > much like for us to move the wiki from OPL to CC-BY-SA. Such a decision should be made by Fedora qua Fedora, consistent with Fedora's licensing guidelines and general rationality (which is true of the current situation with the use of the OPL and would be true if the license of choice were CC-BY-SA instead). Arguably, the Docs Team could proceed with a relicensing for e.g. Release Notes and Installation Guide simply by discussing with the Fedora Project Board. However, it is clear to us that we should consider relicensing the entire fedoraproject.org/wiki, probably all of fedoraproject.org/.*, and perhaps make it the default unless otherwise specified for *.fedoraproject.org. I am now here to get Fedora Project's opinion/consensus/decision on this ("... decision ... by Fedora qua Fedora ...") Thanks - Karsten Cc: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com [1] Original thread: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-April/msg00061.html ... and gains momentum here: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-May/msg00130.html [2] Paul bounces the thread to fedora-legal-list: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-legal-list/2009-May/msg00042.html ... and Richard Fontana replies: http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-legal-list/2009-May/msg00045.html http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-legal-list/2009-May/msg00047.html -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jun 25 05:52:50 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:22:50 +0530 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4A4310B2.7080602@fedoraproject.org> On 06/25/2009 07:28 AM, Karsten Wade wrote: > The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that > cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the > Release Notes and the Installation Guide. Currently the works are > under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. What about Red Hat documentation team? Are they switching as well? If not, how does this affect the idea of Fedora being upstream for Red Hat docs as well? Rahul From frankly3d at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 07:35:21 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:35:21 +0100 Subject: Need pointer to Wiki editing Message-ID: <4A4328B9.9080204@gmail.com> Want to link: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Frankly3d In to: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Development#Participants I had a quick look at: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Links But am totally lost. Frank -- jabber | msn | skype: frankly3d (Skype will be scrapped as my im 1st July 2009) http://www.frankly3d.com From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Jun 25 08:11:24 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:41:24 +0530 Subject: Need pointer to Wiki editing In-Reply-To: <4A4328B9.9080204@gmail.com> References: <4A4328B9.9080204@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A43312C.4080804@fedoraproject.org> On 06/25/2009 01:05 PM, Frank Murphy wrote: > Want to link: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Frankly3d > > In to: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Development#Participants > > > I had a quick look at: > http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Help:Links > > But am totally lost. I have added your name. You can easily use other pages if you unaware of a particular markup. There are dozens of SIG pages with list of user names for example. Rahul From frankly3d at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 08:20:57 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 09:20:57 +0100 Subject: Need pointer to Wiki editing In-Reply-To: <4A43312C.4080804@fedoraproject.org> References: <4A4328B9.9080204@gmail.com> <4A43312C.4080804@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4A433369.4050404@gmail.com> On 25/06/09 09:11, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> In to: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Development#Participants >> But am totally lost. > > I have added your name. Thanks Rahul. You can easily use other pages if you unaware of > a particular markup. There are dozens of SIG pages with list of user > names for example. > > Rahul > Even with the "view Source", still find a wiki impenetrable. I might have to take a couple of months, to sit down and figure out, the what and why. Frank From stickster at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 08:29:30 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:29:30 +0200 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <20090625082930.GB3525@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 06:58:16PM -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that > cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the > Release Notes and the Installation Guide. Currently the works are > under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. > > This move is supported (actually, recommended) by Red Hat's Legal > team. The full discussion with Richard Fontana occured on > fedora-docs-list[1] and via fedora-legal-list[2]. It is worth > reviewing to understand approaches for past and future works. > > Richard states in his initial opinion in reply to Spot: > > On Tue, 26 May 2009 17:29:20 -0400 > "Tom \"spot\" Callaway" wrote: > > > I know Richard reads fedora-legal-list, so I'll wait for him to > > chime in, but in the past, he's expressed that he would very > > much like for us to move the wiki from OPL to CC-BY-SA. > > Such a decision should be made by Fedora qua Fedora, consistent > with Fedora's licensing guidelines and general rationality (which > is true of the current situation with the use of the OPL and would > be true if the license of choice were CC-BY-SA instead). > > Arguably, the Docs Team could proceed with a relicensing for > e.g. Release Notes and Installation Guide simply by discussing with > the Fedora Project Board. However, it is clear to us that we should > consider relicensing the entire fedoraproject.org/wiki, probably all > of fedoraproject.org/.*, and perhaps make it the default unless > otherwise specified for *.fedoraproject.org. > > I am now here to get Fedora Project's opinion/consensus/decision on > this ("... decision ... by Fedora qua Fedora ...") IMHO, a move to CC BY-SA is more supportive of Fedora's mission to promote free and interchangeable content, and makes sense. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 25 03:34:00 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 24 Jun 2009 23:34:00 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-06-25 IRC log Message-ID: <1245900840.15707.1.camel@thunder> 00:00:04 #startmeeting 00:00:21 #meetingtopic Docs Meeting 25 Jun 2009 00:00:35 #topic Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:00:41 Roll Call 00:00:44 * Sparks is here 00:00:47 * ke4qqq is here 00:01:16 is here (still learning chat code) 00:01:32 welcome Lee! 00:01:58 Welcome all... Hopefully we'll have a good attendance tonight. 00:02:00 * ianweller is kinda maybe sorta here but not really 00:02:08 * rudi is here 00:02:15 isn't someone paying you to attend ianweller ??? :) 00:02:16 * Sparks ties ianweller to a chair 00:02:26 ke4qqq: my internet is being fuxxored 00:02:33 i want to burn my ISP 00:02:34 but 00:02:35 yeah 00:02:37 ahhhh ok 00:02:48 so no warning on whether i'm here or not :P 00:02:56 is that excuse the new 'my dog ate my homework' ? 00:03:00 * Sparks hopes that quaid will be here so he can talk about the licensing 00:03:08 ke4qqq: ok you ping salina0.ianweller.org and see when it stops responding. :P 00:03:21 ianweller: Can we all do that? 00:03:37 home grown DDOS 00:03:40 :) 00:03:50 bluh 00:03:56 Woohoo!!! My name is registered now...not really sure what that means, but.... 00:05:18 * Sparks gives everyone one more minute 00:05:35 hmm it seems like my internet is fairly stable now 00:05:36 whee 00:05:42 ianweller: have you done an unofficial review on ucluglee's package? 00:05:47 no 00:05:53 i should probably do that. 00:06:09 * Sparks makes a note to doc ianweller's pay for this week 00:06:12 do I nned to add it to the todo? 00:06:17 Wait.......that didn't sound right. 00:06:18 ke4qqq: that would be extremely helpful 00:06:19 DO IT! 00:06:48 Okay... if everyone will take their seats... we'll get started 00:06:50 quaid: You here? 00:06:58 * radsy is here 00:07:20 * Sparks skips the CC licensing topic 00:07:32 is anyone here about the shared open-source style guide? 00:07:43 can someone recap that for me? 00:07:50 i'm kinda lost about it 00:07:57 ianweller: as soon as someone fills me in... sure 00:08:02 hah 00:08:03 mmmmk 00:08:06 I like the idea - but man someone needs to stand up and lead it - and come up with lots of volunteers 00:08:24 ke4qqq: Would you like to speak about it? 00:08:38 not really 00:08:39 Sparks: which one? (I'm here representing GNOME, at a docs conference 2 weeks ago we started working on a shared open source style guide) 00:08:45 #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:08:46 we have our own internal style guide here 00:08:55 Okay... let's jump into it, then. 00:09:07 radsy: does it reference cms or ap? 00:09:16 ap? 00:09:20 pcutler: What can you tell us about the style guide project. 00:09:22 ? 00:09:40 ke4qqq - neither 00:09:53 at a docs conference 2 weeks ago, we had various free software projects, including GNOME, XFCE, Ubuntu, Drupal and BSD together. 00:10:09 during our hackfest on Sunday, one group started working on the style guide, which is a wip found here: http://writingopensource.com/node/14 00:10:39 this is in it's infancy, so it's still really rough, and nowhere near complete 00:10:48 radsy - Associates Press - and Chicago Manual of Style 00:10:54 * Sparks wonders why I wasn't invited... :( 00:10:57 i didn't spend a lot of time on it as I was doing GNOME hackfest stuff 00:11:06 pcutler: So what do you want/need from us? 00:11:16 radsy: any chance CES's is OPL-licensed? 00:11:39 Sparks: don't know yet, right now our goal is to get GNOME better integrated downstream and open communication to stuff like this 00:11:40 pcutler: discussing the open source style guide? 00:11:47 shaunm: yes 00:12:16 as far as they style guide, I was there, but wasn't active on that project 00:12:22 shaunm: If you have something to add please do. 00:12:26 ke4qqq, i'm not sure how it's licensed, but i can probably find out for you 00:12:39 leave it with me 00:12:40 one topic discussed was how to create our own version of the Chicago Manual of Style long term 00:12:42 that'd be awesome 00:12:43 ke4qqq -- not at the moment, in fact, it's "Confidential" 00:12:51 or that ^ 00:13:02 "our" as in all open source projects 00:13:15 I guess I'm just confused about what is needed from Fedora. I'm sure we'd be happy to participate and provide all our documentation as needed. 00:13:28 I saw some confusion in some places, so I'd just like to point out that the idea is not to get rid of project-specific style guides 00:14:03 they want us to participate in creation - plus fedora has an existing style guide - though it references chicago so it's incomplete in their scope. 00:14:35 * quaid slides in the back of the room 00:14:36 right, so any sufficiently large documentation project has its own style guide. same happens in the commercial sector 00:15:02 but project style guides deal with very specific things for that project, and happily leave the general stuff to a general style guide, like CMS or AP 00:15:06 okay. It would probably be a good time to get some folks working on updating our backend documents (like the style-guide and development documentation) 00:15:26 the idea is to make a free style guide that can be that general base for all of us 00:16:43 certainly in the area of "is it x86, X86, etc." 00:16:51 we do our readers a service in normalizing 00:16:53 Okay. Is there anyone that would like to raise their hand and volunteer to work as a liaison and help wrangle this from our end? 00:17:15 I don't mind acting as a liaison there 00:17:30 and note that I don't know how we're going about this. I'm not the one leading the effort 00:17:38 but I'd really like to see if we could get CES to release theirs under a free license. 00:17:47 ke4qqq: Thanks. I'll put you on it, then. I'd also like to be involved. Just keep me in the loop of what's happening, please. 00:17:53 np 00:18:16 ke4qqq -- I'll be happy to follow that up. I don't imagine that it would be a big deal. 00:18:17 ke4qqq: sorry, I'm not familiar with CES. link? 00:18:27 ke4qqq: +1 to an RHT addition 00:18:35 shaunm, actually, ECS -- Red Hat Engineering Content Services 00:18:37 shaunm: Content Engineering Services - it's the docs team at RH 00:18:46 ah, thanks 00:19:01 wow - sorry for transposing the name 00:19:24 ke4qqq - np. It's not in front of your face every day, like it is for some of us ;) 00:20:26 Okay, so ke4qqq is going to run with that ball. Does anyone else have anything on this topic? 00:21:24 shaunm: pcutler: Thanks for helping us understand what's happening here. 00:21:51 * Sparks moves back to the first topic since he saw quaid slip into the back of the room. 00:21:54 Im curious what style guides we have already. the link posted a minute ago. doesn't contain much 00:22:40 scramer: I think that is something we are going to have to figure out. 00:23:15 #topic Status on CC license discussion 00:23:25 quaid: Do you have an update on the license discussion? 00:23:37 short is, I've been on vacation since the last meeting, basically 00:23:44 so I haven't moved the needl 00:24:02 but bonus, I just started up gnote from scratch 00:24:07 and added this as the first to-do item 00:24:15 I'll bounce traffic back to the list asap. 00:24:18 00:24:31 :) 00:24:40 cool... Does anyone have any questions? 00:24:51 and dependencies I need to know about? 00:26:18 quaid: Thanks for the update... 00:26:55 moving on 00:26:57 esp. dependencies :) 00:27:02 so moved 00:27:05 :) 00:27:24 #topic Bugzilla Component Changes - https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Sparks/BZ_and_Guide_Table 00:28:10 So no one has really commented on this. So if no one has anything to say about it tonight I'm going to start the process of converting or changing or leaving alone. 00:28:37 * quaid takes a quick final peek 00:28:54 Sparks: did you talk to translators about abandoning the translation docs? 00:29:02 i don't want other subprojects getting angry 00:29:12 ianweller: yes. I've gotten multiple confirmation on blowing those files away 00:29:18 errr... abandoning them 00:29:26 * Sparks never throws anything away 00:29:33 it's in Trac now iirc 00:29:43 um, two questions 00:29:59 docs-common has tools in it that are potentially useful, may never be packaged, and are in trac now 00:30:20 do we not need a bug component because it's not a packaged thing? 00:30:22 and many of them still needed for things like RN 00:30:52 * quaid is going to go over his alotted two questions, but tries ... 00:30:57 and older versions of documents such as the IG for F10 00:31:13 and example-tutorial, is that supplated by create_book? 00:31:30 i.e., if we want a Fedora-specific example, we should put it in publican-fedora, right? 00:31:52 * quaid notes there may have been some gold in xml-normalize, but it's probably supplanted by pulican, too 00:32:06 * quaid has latency, argh 00:32:07 00:32:21 quaid: We can put anything in bz that needs to be there. I plan on being very flexible with "our" product in bz. 00:32:56 so, if we are doing team wide planning/task management with bz, we probably need to keep docs-common under it's new name 00:33:10 quaid: And I think many things are going to get "lost" because we will be using publican. 00:33:29 quaid: +1 to using BZ for... everything 00:33:42 bzborg 00:34:24 ke4qqq: I'm not sure if I understand your statement 00:34:41 docs-common tools are still needed 00:34:54 for RN and F10 guides, i.e. "PP" (pre-publican) 00:34:54 perhaps I misunderstand then 00:35:18 and even the 'other dogs' that are included with RN post-publican 00:35:25 s/dogs/docs/ 00:35:38 *woof* 00:36:18 IMO, we need BZ components for all active items not in the wiki... does that make sense? 00:37:03 If we decide to sunset a project or move it to the wiki we should get rid of the component in BZ to prevent confusion. 00:37:04 eg - we can't EOL docs-common til all of the docs that need docs-common 00:37:17 yes... that makes sense 00:37:37 are EOLed - which means at least another 12 months 00:37:40 but we can rename it 00:37:51 yep 00:38:45 okay. 48 more hours and then I'm taking an ax to things... :) 00:39:10 make notes/updates on the page and let's take further discussion to the list. 00:39:13 is that okay? 00:39:27 worksforme 00:39:34 k 00:40:01 This topic really started as a BZ clean up but turned out to be a clean up of Docs! 00:40:17 Anyone have anything else before we move on? 00:40:54 #topic CMS Update <-- ke4qqq 00:41:05 ke4qqq: Zikula... talk to us! 00:41:59 so lots of modules packaged 00:42:11 a few hiccups (licensing) 00:42:25 poelcat has volunteered to take the pm role 00:42:34 but we haven't yet had an initial meeting 00:42:36 ? 00:42:45 I saw that traffic from John 00:42:51 and is that just for the docs.fp.o site? 00:42:52 upstream has been very responsive to our concerns 00:42:57 Zikula++ 00:43:27 quaid: I think this is for getting the initial instance of Zikula up... which will be docs.fp.o. 00:43:29 quaid: no this is for other fp.o uses as well I suppose 00:43:40 both! neither! 00:43:42 so many groups have an interest 00:43:47 yes 00:43:54 Well... 00:43:57 and so many parties are needed 00:44:21 infra and art are needed initially to make sure everything is... perfect (like it would be any other way) 00:44:22 it would help if we made it clear that this is a step in a process that still includes hope. 00:44:36 after that it should be an easy process to get other instances up and functioning 00:44:55 for the other teams involved; unless Infra/Websites wants to move in parallel, too 00:44:59 and I am doing a poor job of getting it all done quite honestly, though Sparks has been packaging and stuff like a madman 00:45:28 ke4qqq: give me keys and I'll drive us to California 00:45:37 :) 00:45:52 this is a nice point for poelcat to step in; it's like a Fedora-ratchet, moving things along from doer to doer :) 00:46:06 yes 00:46:19 I think we'll be meeting the beginning of next week (I speculate) 00:47:21 Anyone have anything else? 00:47:56 #topic [[DocsProject]] wiki pages changes 00:48:00 ianweller: you still around? 00:48:13 ianweller: What's the status of getting wikibot out of the garage? 00:48:23 * ke4qqq needs to duck out of the meeting - sorry can't stay longer. 00:48:27 are you through your agenda items? 00:48:36 ke4qqq: thanks for coming 00:48:56 shaunm: about half way through the items... but the last half goes faster 00:49:19 * Sparks thinks ianweller is MIA. 00:49:22 I have something I'd like to discuss with the fedora docs team, but I don't want to interrupt your agenda 00:49:48 shaunm: Can you stick around for another ten min? 00:49:59 sure, no problem 00:50:04 shaunm: cool 00:50:11 #topic Status on Installation Guide 00:50:17 rudi: Any updates on the IG? 00:50:58 Not much -- I'm working my way through the bug list and on some new material that engineers want incorporated 00:51:17 Still hope to have a revised edition ready in the next week or so 00:51:25 (but I think I said that last week) 00:52:15 :) 00:52:24 rudi: Cool. If you need anything just let me know. 00:52:31 Ta. 00:52:42 Anyone have anything for the IG? 00:53:20 #topic Status on Security Guide 00:53:37 Well... I submitted a new package for review. I think he likes it. 00:54:01 Have a couple of open tickets on transitioning some information from the wiki over to the guide. 00:54:28 And I'd like to make mention of radsy's SELinux guides in the document, somewhere. 00:54:37 radsy: do you have anything to add? 00:54:48 on the security guide? 00:54:51 no 00:54:58 Anyone have anything? 00:55:04 it's not in my field of view right now 00:55:19 #topic Status on SELinux Guides 00:55:25 radsy: I'm guessing these are, though 00:56:16 i'm trying to beat publican into submission with the user-guide translations, and i'm working on mysql/squid for the services-guide. 00:56:35 * Sparks offers his baseball bat 00:57:06 radsy: If I can help with the translations (or anything) please let me knwo. 00:57:38 I know that jjmcd has good experience with the translations, too (more than me) so he might be a good resource 00:57:43 as soon as he returns from Germany 00:58:05 Anyone have anything? 00:58:22 #topic Status on User Guide <-- danielsmw & rudi 00:58:30 rudi: Any changes to the UG? 00:58:40 Nothing on the radar for this one. 00:58:50 Anyone have anything? 00:59:00 hmm 00:59:06 is that one being lead? 00:59:27 quaid: which one? The UG? danielsmw and rudi are assigned to it 00:59:41 ok 00:59:56 * Sparks notes he hasn't seen danielsmw around lately 01:00:02 sorry, was out of touch and missed that folks actually volunteered, bless 'em 01:00:09 I thought danielsmw took an LOA? 01:00:14 did he? 01:00:23 or am I discombobulating him with jmtaylor? 01:00:27 * Sparks will consult his notes after the meeting 01:00:28 sorry Matthew if I am 01:00:36 Okay, anythign else on the UG? 01:00:51 #topic New Guides 01:01:04 Anyone working on or wanting to work on a new guide? 01:01:32 I plan to work on an Installation Quick Start Guide for F11 01:01:37 F12 rather 01:01:42 cool 01:01:49 cool 01:01:53 step one: put in DVD 01:01:59 step two: press enter 01:02:03 step three: walk away 01:02:12 step four: return and enjoy Fedora goodness 01:02:15 :) 01:02:22 Yeah; something very much like that :) 01:02:34 there may be a few steps missing in there but... :) 01:03:03 rudi: Do you need anyone to help you with this guide? 01:03:27 Sparks -- I'll know more once I have the chance to do some planning with it 01:03:44 I hope that I'll be able to reuse/condense content from some existing docs 01:03:51 rudi: Okay. Just let me know. 01:03:54 Anyone else? 01:04:27 #topic All other busines 01:04:37 Okay... Who has something they'd like to talk about? 01:04:51 * shaunm raises his hand 01:05:00 yes shaunm! :) 01:05:04 yay! 01:05:26 so there is a small group of people who are discussing coming together for a desktop help summit 01:05:40 we have interested parties from gnome, kde, xfce, and ubuntu 01:06:10 it's not a conference. it's a gathering of movers and shakers to bang out some common ground 01:06:27 docs ground? 01:06:29 I would very much like it if somebody from the fedora team could make it 01:06:36 strictly docs, yes 01:06:56 shaunm: I'm sure we can fill a slot. 01:07:21 largely focused on desktop help. but if people find something interested to talk about for other types of documentation, I'm not going to shut them up 01:07:31 *interesting 01:07:32 shaunm -- When and where? 01:07:37 I will caveat that being a starfish-type organization, it's hard to get one person who can speak for direction in terms of common ground ... depending. 01:08:01 quaid: yes... but one person can at least be the liaison. 01:08:15 my experience is we all get together in person and have great ideas, but moving those through the projects is different. 01:08:20 quaid: perfectly understood. but somebody who's involved with the fedora team can bring perspective that the rest of us don't have 01:08:33 nod 01:08:40 I'm curious what thought there is toward virtual and widely inclusive v. physical and therefore exclusive? 01:09:21 so I've offered to organize and host the event, and if I organize it, it will be in Champaign, IL, US 01:09:35 and people seem to be perfectly happy to let me do that 01:09:47 we're tentatively talking about august 21-23 01:09:54 (I realize it's rather short notice) 01:10:50 shaunm: Can you send me a message to sparks at fedoraproject.org with the details, please? 01:10:58 yessir 01:11:31 I'll forward the information to the list so we can figure it out on our end. 01:11:40 great 01:12:21 Anyone have anything else? 01:13:35 5 01:13:38 4 01:13:39 thank you 01:13:42 3 01:13:45 scramer: no problem 01:13:48 2 01:13:50 1 01:13:57 Thanks everyone for coming! 01:14:00 #endmeeting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From chris at tylers.info Thu Jun 25 12:37:46 2009 From: chris at tylers.info (Chris Tyler) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:37:46 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 18:58 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that > cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the > Release Notes and the Installation Guide. Currently the works are > under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. I agree that CC is a much better choice than OPL. How do we make this relicensing work? I.e., if contributor X agreed that their content could be used under the OPL, how is it that we can just take that content and distribute it under a different license? I don't remember if the CLA has any wording on this. (Obviously the intention of the licenses is very similar, but nonetheless it seems like a murky situation. We did have someone withdraw from Fedora and take their toys with them when we last made a license change on the the wiki, IIRC). -Chris From ian at ianweller.org Thu Jun 25 13:32:53 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 08:32:53 -0500 Subject: Need pointer to Wiki editing In-Reply-To: <4A433369.4050404@gmail.com> References: <4A4328B9.9080204@gmail.com> <4A43312C.4080804@fedoraproject.org> <4A433369.4050404@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090625133253.GB2638@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 09:20:57AM +0100, Frank Murphy wrote: > Even with the "view Source", still find a wiki impenetrable. > I might have to take a couple of months, to sit down and figure out, > the what and why. > If you need any help, ping me on IRC -- irc.freenode.net, #fedora-docs -- my nick is "ianweller". :) -- Ian Weller GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 15:24:13 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:24:13 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> Message-ID: <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> On 06/25/2009 08:37 AM, Chris Tyler wrote: > On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 18:58 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: >> The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that >> cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the >> Release Notes and the Installation Guide. Currently the works are >> under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. > > I agree that CC is a much better choice than OPL. > > How do we make this relicensing work? I.e., if contributor X agreed that > their content could be used under the OPL, how is it that we can just > take that content and distribute it under a different license? I don't > remember if the CLA has any wording on this. (Obviously the intention of > the licenses is very similar, but nonetheless it seems like a murky > situation. We did have someone withdraw from Fedora and take their toys > with them when we last made a license change on the the wiki, IIRC). Well, basically, we really should ask the contributors to consent to the relicensing, and get their "written" permission in email. Technically, these contributions were made under the terms of the CLA, and unless those folks explicitly stated that their contributions were under the OPL, Fedora is technically able to relicense those contributions however we desire. I say "technically" a lot there, because I do not want to leverage that. I think the clear intent of contributors contributing to an OPL licensed document is that their contributions are under OPL terms. In fact, I want to remove that loophole in the next revision of the Fedora CLA. So, we should just go ahead and get permission from all the contributors (writers and translators) to relicense their works, and if anyone does not give permission, we should remove/replace their contribution. ~spot From oglesbyzm at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 15:32:15 2009 From: oglesbyzm at gmail.com (Zach Oglesby) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:32:15 +0200 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090625153215.GA21440@zaphod.zach.tk> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:24:13AM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > On 06/25/2009 08:37 AM, Chris Tyler wrote: > > On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 18:58 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > >> The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that > >> cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the > >> Release Notes and the Installation Guide. Currently the works are > >> under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. > > > > I agree that CC is a much better choice than OPL. > > > > How do we make this relicensing work? I.e., if contributor X agreed that > > their content could be used under the OPL, how is it that we can just > > take that content and distribute it under a different license? I don't > > remember if the CLA has any wording on this. (Obviously the intention of > > the licenses is very similar, but nonetheless it seems like a murky > > situation. We did have someone withdraw from Fedora and take their toys > > with them when we last made a license change on the the wiki, IIRC). > > Well, basically, we really should ask the contributors to consent to the > relicensing, and get their "written" permission in email. Technically, > these contributions were made under the terms of the CLA, and unless > those folks explicitly stated that their contributions were under the > OPL, Fedora is technically able to relicense those contributions however > we desire. > > I say "technically" a lot there, because I do not want to leverage that. > I think the clear intent of contributors contributing to an OPL licensed > document is that their contributions are under OPL terms. In fact, I > want to remove that loophole in the next revision of the Fedora CLA. > > So, we should just go ahead and get permission from all the contributors > (writers and translators) to relicense their works, and if anyone does > not give permission, we should remove/replace their contribution. > > ~spot That is a large task, Im not sure an email chain would be the best way to handel that, however I am not sure what is. -- Zach Oglesby GPG Key: 1378F79F http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Zoglesby -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From shaunm at gnome.org Thu Jun 25 15:40:49 2009 From: shaunm at gnome.org (Shaun McCance) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 10:40:49 -0500 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1245944449.29465.177.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 18:58 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that > cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the > Release Notes and the Installation Guide. Currently the works are > under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. The Gnome documentation team is also moving to CC BY SA 3.0, away from the GFDL. I hope this will help downstream changes or any upstreaming you might want to do in the future. By the way, I don't know if any of the documentation you make contains non-trivial code, but we were concerned about license restrictions for code, and we got the following boilerplate from the fine people at the SFLC: "This documentation is licensed under [licenses]. As a special exception, the copyright holders give you permission to copy, modify, and distribute the example code contained in this documentation under the terms of your choosing, without restriction." -- Shaun From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 25 15:40:53 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:40:53 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <20090625153215.GA21440@zaphod.zach.tk> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <20090625153215.GA21440@zaphod.zach.tk> Message-ID: <1245944453.4359.13.camel@thunder> On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 17:32 +0200, Zach Oglesby wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:24:13AM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > > On 06/25/2009 08:37 AM, Chris Tyler wrote: > > > On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 18:58 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > >> The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that > > >> cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the > > >> Release Notes and the Installation Guide. Currently the works are > > >> under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. > > > > > > I agree that CC is a much better choice than OPL. > > > > > > How do we make this relicensing work? I.e., if contributor X agreed that > > > their content could be used under the OPL, how is it that we can just > > > take that content and distribute it under a different license? I don't > > > remember if the CLA has any wording on this. (Obviously the intention of > > > the licenses is very similar, but nonetheless it seems like a murky > > > situation. We did have someone withdraw from Fedora and take their toys > > > with them when we last made a license change on the the wiki, IIRC). > > > > Well, basically, we really should ask the contributors to consent to the > > relicensing, and get their "written" permission in email. Technically, > > these contributions were made under the terms of the CLA, and unless > > those folks explicitly stated that their contributions were under the > > OPL, Fedora is technically able to relicense those contributions however > > we desire. > > > > I say "technically" a lot there, because I do not want to leverage that. > > I think the clear intent of contributors contributing to an OPL licensed > > document is that their contributions are under OPL terms. In fact, I > > want to remove that loophole in the next revision of the Fedora CLA. > > > > So, we should just go ahead and get permission from all the contributors > > (writers and translators) to relicense their works, and if anyone does > > not give permission, we should remove/replace their contribution. > > > > ~spot > > That is a large task, Im not sure an email chain would be the best way to handel that, however I am not sure what is. Could we setup a vote and give access to all those in the groups of Docs, translators, etc and if we get any no votes we request them send a message to someone or a group or a list and explain why they don't want to change? I don't know how to handle contacting everyone that has submitted to the wiki if we are going to change licenses there. Thoughts? -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Lead Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From jonstanley at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 15:49:35 2009 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:49:35 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > So, we should just go ahead and get permission from all the contributors > (writers and translators) to relicense their works, and if anyone does > not give permission, we should remove/replace their contribution. How does this work for defunct accounts? For example, I made a contribution and then disappeared - my email address doesn't work, for example. From jonstanley at gmail.com Thu Jun 25 15:54:54 2009 From: jonstanley at gmail.com (Jon Stanley) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 11:54:54 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <1245944453.4359.13.camel@thunder> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <20090625153215.GA21440@zaphod.zach.tk> <1245944453.4359.13.camel@thunder> Message-ID: On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > Could we setup a vote and give access to all those in the groups of > Docs, translators, etc and if we get any no votes we request them send a > message to someone or a group or a list and explain why they don't want > to change? I would think that you would require the explicit consent of every contributor in order to relicense. If if we technically don't according to the CLA, it would still be the Right Thing To Do(TM). From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 16:03:34 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:03:34 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A439FD6.9050402@redhat.com> On 06/25/2009 11:49 AM, Jon Stanley wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Tom "spot" > Callaway wrote: > >> So, we should just go ahead and get permission from all the contributors >> (writers and translators) to relicense their works, and if anyone does >> not give permission, we should remove/replace their contribution. > > How does this work for defunct accounts? For example, I made a > contribution and then disappeared - my email address doesn't work, for > example. We make every effort to track down that person, and if it is ultimately impossible, we remove their contribution(s) from the "CC-BY-SA" licensed version of the document(s). ~spot From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 25 16:54:00 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:54:00 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <20090625153215.GA21440@zaphod.zach.tk> <1245944453.4359.13.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <1245948840.4359.25.camel@thunder> On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 11:54 -0400, Jon Stanley wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Eric > Christensen wrote: > > > Could we setup a vote and give access to all those in the groups of > > Docs, translators, etc and if we get any no votes we request them send a > > message to someone or a group or a list and explain why they don't want > > to change? > > I would think that you would require the explicit consent of every > contributor in order to relicense. If if we technically don't > according to the CLA, it would still be the Right Thing To Do(TM). > Do the individual contributors retain copyright on things they submit to the Fedora Project on behalf of the Fedora Project? Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From simon at zikula.org Thu Jun 25 16:59:06 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:59:06 +0100 Subject: Online Poll In-Reply-To: <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> References: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <018c01c9f5b6$40c70e90$c2552bb0$@org> > Not currently, but it would be possible to have a polling module in > the new CMS, am I correct? How self-service could we make such a > module? I think we don't want a million polls asking "What's the best > desktop environment?", but having a poll every couple weeks on a topic > that could actually benefit from the input makes sense to me. That's certainly possible - we can give a special group of people access to the polls module to set questions. However, if you want a polls module it will have to be packaged :) Simon From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 25 17:08:15 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:08:15 -0400 Subject: Online Poll In-Reply-To: <018c01c9f5b6$40c70e90$c2552bb0$@org> References: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> <018c01c9f5b6$40c70e90$c2552bb0$@org> Message-ID: <1245949695.4359.29.camel@thunder> On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 17:59 +0100, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > > Not currently, but it would be possible to have a polling module in > > the new CMS, am I correct? How self-service could we make such a > > module? I think we don't want a million polls asking "What's the best > > desktop environment?", but having a poll every couple weeks on a topic > > that could actually benefit from the input makes sense to me. > > That's certainly possible - we can give a special group of people access to > the polls module to set questions. However, if you want a polls module it > will have to be packaged :) > > > Simon > Simon, Point me! :) Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 19:22:53 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:22:53 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <4A439FD6.9050402@redhat.com> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <4A439FD6.9050402@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090625192253.GE10691@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 12:03:34PM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > On 06/25/2009 11:49 AM, Jon Stanley wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Tom "spot" > > Callaway wrote: > > > >> So, we should just go ahead and get permission from all the contributors > >> (writers and translators) to relicense their works, and if anyone does > >> not give permission, we should remove/replace their contribution. > > > > How does this work for defunct accounts? For example, I made a > > contribution and then disappeared - my email address doesn't work, for > > example. > > We make every effort to track down that person, and if it is ultimately > impossible, we remove their contribution(s) from the "CC-BY-SA" licensed > version of the document(s). To be honest, I presumed we would use the CLA's nuclear option here and just relicense. When we went from GFDL to OPL we specifically had to ask everyone because none of the content works were under the Fedora CLA. The stated reasoning at the time iirc was, we wouldn't have to do this check with everyone again if we had to relicense because we had the CLA. So I get what you are saying, and I don't think we can do it. The amount of time it will take is huge, especially for the wiki. It's possible we could do it for the pure content guides, but we'd have to ensure that none of the content was tainted from the wiki. People reference bad publicity or a backlash if we just relicense under the CLA terms. Did Wikipedia contact every author/editor, only relicense their content if they approve, and remove the content if they did not approve? My argument is that the moving from a broken license to one that puts us clearly in the largest pool of open content commons is worth the unintended consequences of using the CLA's hammer. Isn't that what it is for? If we must contact each contributor, who have already clearly put their content under the CLA that clearly gives Fedora the right to adjust the licensing as needed, then I'm concerned the effort won't get done. It's an extremely non-trivial effort. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 19:37:00 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:37:00 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <4A4310B2.7080602@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <4A4310B2.7080602@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090625193700.GG10691@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:22:50AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 06/25/2009 07:28 AM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that > > cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the > > Release Notes and the Installation Guide. Currently the works are > > under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. > > What about Red Hat documentation team? Are they switching as well? If > not, how does this affect the idea of Fedora being upstream for Red Hat > docs as well? Before starting this thread I contacted the Content Services Director (Michael Hideo Smith), along with Richard Fontana. With the caveat that he is permitted to relicense *all* of their content to CC BY SA, Michael and Richard agreed Red Hat can and should do this as the upstream. So, this part is fortunately the least of our worries this time. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 19:44:23 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:44:23 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> Message-ID: <20090625194423.GH10691@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 08:37:46AM -0400, Chris Tyler wrote: > > How do we make this relicensing work? I.e., if contributor X agreed that > their content could be used under the OPL, how is it that we can just > take that content and distribute it under a different license? I don't > remember if the CLA has any wording on this. My understanding when we did this last time was, "Since we are going to simultaneously get all of these people to sign the CLA, we now have a tool (hammer) that prevents us from having to ask permission if we need to relicense in the future." As such, it hadn't occurred to me until Spot specified that we might have to get individual approval or remove the contribution. > (Obviously the intention of > the licenses is very similar, but nonetheless it seems like a murky > situation. We did have someone withdraw from Fedora and take their toys > with them when we last made a license change on the the wiki, IIRC). Hmm, I'm not sure I recall having to remove wiki content, thank goodness. IIRC, everyone who had wiki edit rights signed the CLA. The one exception was an author who worked on a stand-alone guide (Jargon Buster), who did not want to relicense nor sign the CLA, and his content was removed. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 19:49:50 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 12:49:50 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <1245948840.4359.25.camel@thunder> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <20090625153215.GA21440@zaphod.zach.tk> <1245944453.4359.13.camel@thunder> <1245948840.4359.25.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090625194950.GI10691@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 12:54:00PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 11:54 -0400, Jon Stanley wrote: > > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 11:40 AM, Eric > > Christensen wrote: > > > > > Could we setup a vote and give access to all those in the groups of > > > Docs, translators, etc and if we get any no votes we request them send a > > > message to someone or a group or a list and explain why they don't want > > > to change? > > > > I would think that you would require the explicit consent of every > > contributor in order to relicense. If if we technically don't > > according to the CLA, it would still be the Right Thing To Do(TM). > > > > Do the individual contributors retain copyright on things they submit to > the Fedora Project on behalf of the Fedora Project? Yes. The CLA is only a grant of a very broad copyright *license*; the author retains copyright, there is no copyright assignment going on. The broad copyright license AIUI (& IANAL) does give Fedora the right to relicense, even possibly works that were specifically licensed in contributing. That's one thing we are sloppy about in content, unlike code -- we don't have a LICENSE file for each contribution to make it clear what the license is, etc. The CLA provides a cover, if you don't specify, we'll put it under X license. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 20:02:35 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 13:02:35 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <25106105.74981245958598130.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> References: <20090625191408.GD10691@calliope.phig.org> <25106105.74981245958598130.JavaMail.root@zimbra.cbccgroup.com> Message-ID: <20090625200235.GJ10691@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 07:36:38PM +0000, Robert 'Bob' Jensen wrote: > I think the community and contributors should be shown respect by > sending out a form mass email to each directly, responses not > required because of the CLA. Perhaps that is a fair compromise. I'm still a'feared of what happens if anyone says "no", especially for wiki content. Unlike code, it is reasonably hard to determine what is a person's contribution once it has been through several edit and rewrites. Was that "the" your contribution or mine? If I use automation to remove all of your edits and go put in my own content, does it have to be different than what was there before? How do I determine what is a fair rewrite and what is just me paraphrasing with the same words? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 22:42:18 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 15:42:18 -0700 Subject: CMS (Zikula) kick-off In-Reply-To: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> References: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090625224218.GL10691@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 06:13:22PM -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > Hi, > > I've volunteered to help kick off and facilitate the Fedora cross-team > CMS (Zicula) planning and implementation meetings. I think things will > work best if each team puts forth a representative. It is not clear in your email to the various teams what the CMS scope is. AIUI, the scope still is this: 1. Zikula is rolling out to cover docs.fp.o; 2. We need Websites, Design, Infra teams help with that; 3. All teams should be aware that we are seriously considering Zikula for covering other Fedora CMS needs, such as fedoraproject.org/*. Otherwise it sounds as if we are rolling Zikula under other parts of fp.org. If that is actually the case, we should make that clear instead. > We will hold our > meetings on IRC or over Fedora Talk a IRC++ - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 22:48:29 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:48:29 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <20090625192253.GE10691@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <4A439FD6.9050402@redhat.com> <20090625192253.GE10691@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4A43FEBD.2000706@redhat.com> On 06/25/2009 03:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > When we went from GFDL to OPL we specifically had to ask everyone > because none of the content works were under the Fedora CLA. The > stated reasoning at the time iirc was, we wouldn't have to do this > check with everyone again if we had to relicense because we had the > CLA. I think the important distinction that I missed was that I thought you were only referring to the reference documentation in the separate files (e.g. Release Guide), where there are well defined lists of the contributors. For the wiki, that task is far too major and we would definitely want to leverage the CLA to relicense that content. In the future, I want to retain that relicensing power for the wiki, but I think we can do so with a bit more finesse, e.g. something like: ***** Please note that all contributions to FedoraProject may be edited, altered, or removed by other contributors. If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly, then do not submit it here. You are also promising us that you wrote this yourself, or copied it from a public domain or similar free resource (see FedoraProject:Copyrights for details). DO NOT SUBMIT COPYRIGHTED WORK WITHOUT PERMISSION! By making changes to the Fedora Project wiki, you are giving a contributed work to Fedora under the terms of the $CURRENTLICENSE, or a future Free Software License as determined by the Fedora Documentation Team. If you do not agree to this licensing grant, do not make any changes to the wiki. ***** My hope is that if we can do this, we can enable people to edit the wiki without requiring anyone to sign the CLA, as a lot (possibly most) of the "contributions" on the wiki are not individually copyrightable anyways. They'd still need to create a FAS user account to prevent wiki spam, but we remove some of the unnecessary stop energy. We would also still retain the nuclear option to relicense the wiki (which most people find acceptable), but we take it off the table for all other contributions (which most people do not find acceptable that Fedora/Red Hat could relicense at a whim). Of course, RH Legal might say that this isn't plausible, but it's my dream. ~spot From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Jun 25 22:54:18 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 18:54:18 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <4A43FEBD.2000706@redhat.com> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <4A439FD6.9050402@redhat.com> <20090625192253.GE10691@calliope.phig.org> <4A43FEBD.2000706@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1245970458.4359.41.camel@thunder> On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 18:48 -0400, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > On 06/25/2009 03:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > When we went from GFDL to OPL we specifically had to ask everyone > > because none of the content works were under the Fedora CLA. The > > stated reasoning at the time iirc was, we wouldn't have to do this > > check with everyone again if we had to relicense because we had the > > CLA. > > I think the important distinction that I missed was that I thought you > were only referring to the reference documentation in the separate files > (e.g. Release Guide), where there are well defined lists of the > contributors. For the wiki, that task is far too major and we would > definitely want to leverage the CLA to relicense that content. > There is still a problem, though. Most, if not all, of our guides start on the wiki. I know a lot of information that went into the Security Guide came from the wiki and thus from various developers. > > ~spot > Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tcallawa at redhat.com Thu Jun 25 23:13:57 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:13:57 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <1245948840.4359.25.camel@thunder> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <20090625153215.GA21440@zaphod.zach.tk> <1245944453.4359.13.camel@thunder> <1245948840.4359.25.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A4404B5.1050209@redhat.com> On 06/25/2009 12:54 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > Do the individual contributors retain copyright on things they submit to > the Fedora Project on behalf of the Fedora Project? Yes. Nevertheless, all contributions at this point in time are covered by the CLA, and we possess the capacity to re-license them as we (Fedora/Red Hat) see fit. Some people are uncomfortable with that, which is why I have been looking at ways where we may be able to resolve that issue and limit that power without un-necessarily tying our hands. In addition, for a variety of reasons, many people will be unable to sign the CLA, and I was hoping to find ways to permit them to contribute small changes which are not of themselves significant enough to be copyrightable. This may be impossible though, so I might end up having to settle for rewording the CLA so that we have the power to use unlicensed contributions under the terms of a predefined Free license, or a later Free license of Fedora/Red Hat's choosing. ~spot From poelstra at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 02:49:32 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:49:32 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Docs Schedule Message-ID: <4A44373C.7000002@redhat.com> I'm still waiting for the tasks you'd like added to the schedule for Fedora 12 (re: IRC meeting a week or two back). In the mean time for your reviewing pleasure I've taken a shot at the Fedora 12 Docs schedule based on Fedora 11. Please tell me what needs to be corrected by referencing the task number here: --> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html As an added bonus I've also created a combined view with the release engineering schedule (notice the overlay in different colors). The intention if this version is to place the Docs tasks in the context of the rest of the release: --> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-releng-tasks.html And if that wasn't enough, I'm also generating iCal files for this release that are team specific. So pop this into to your favorite calendar application and tell me which additional tasks you'd like to see or have removed. To keep the presentation clean it only includes the more important tasks/milestones. -->http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs.ics It would be most helpful to get your feedback by next week so I can move on to tuning the translation schedule. Thanks, John From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 04:46:39 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:46:39 -0400 Subject: [Bug 450331] lack of documentation on restoring from bare-metal (UUID problem) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906260446.n5Q4kdWm014765@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=450331 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |eric at christensenplace.us, | |kwade at redhat.com Component|docs-requests |desktop-user-guide AssignedTo|kwade at redhat.com |danielsmw at gmail.com QAContact|stickster at gmail.com |rlandman at redhat.com --- Comment #1 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-26 00:46:38 EDT --- Maybe this is a better fit in the User Guide. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 04:58:34 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:58:34 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <4A43FEBD.2000706@redhat.com> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <4A439FD6.9050402@redhat.com> <20090625192253.GE10691@calliope.phig.org> <4A43FEBD.2000706@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090626045834.GM10691@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 06:48:29PM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > On 06/25/2009 03:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > When we went from GFDL to OPL we specifically had to ask everyone > > because none of the content works were under the Fedora CLA. The > > stated reasoning at the time iirc was, we wouldn't have to do this > > check with everyone again if we had to relicense because we had the > > CLA. > > I think the important distinction that I missed was that I thought you > were only referring to the reference documentation in the separate files > (e.g. Release Guide), where there are well defined lists of the > contributors. For the wiki, that task is far too major and we would > definitely want to leverage the CLA to relicense that content. OK, thanks. Yes, one specific reason for taking this discussion to f-a-b is the wiki relicensing. For any guides worked on entirely as DocBook XML (Installation Guide, for example), we have the trail to touch the handful of authors and ask permission to relicense. Where we can easily do that, I reckon we should -- there are enough opinions in that direction, and I reckon I wouldn't mind the gesture. Sparks' point about content that sources from the wiki is a tough nut ... I'll reply back to him directly. > In the future, I want to retain that relicensing power for the wiki, but > I think we can do so with a bit more finesse, e.g. something like: [snip good text] Yes, I like that approach *a lot*. Haven't chatted with Ian about it, but I reckon he concurs; ISTR he voted for the Wikipedia license change, too. :) - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 05:22:12 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:22:12 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <1245970458.4359.41.camel@thunder> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <4A439FD6.9050402@redhat.com> <20090625192253.GE10691@calliope.phig.org> <4A43FEBD.2000706@redhat.com> <1245970458.4359.41.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090626052212.GN10691@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 06:54:18PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 18:48 -0400, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > > On 06/25/2009 03:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > When we went from GFDL to OPL we specifically had to ask everyone > > > because none of the content works were under the Fedora CLA. The > > > stated reasoning at the time iirc was, we wouldn't have to do this > > > check with everyone again if we had to relicense because we had the > > > CLA. > > > > I think the important distinction that I missed was that I thought you > > were only referring to the reference documentation in the separate files > > (e.g. Release Guide), where there are well defined lists of the > > contributors. For the wiki, that task is far too major and we would > > definitely want to leverage the CLA to relicense that content. > > > > There is still a problem, though. Most, if not all, of our guides start > on the wiki. I know a lot of information that went into the Security > Guide came from the wiki and thus from various developers. Aye, there's the rub. I think only the Installation Guide doesn't have wiki sourcing in it. One difference going in to the future is that we have worked on having improved editing via the Docs CMS (Zikula), and I can foresee Docs moving most of this editing to the improved wysiwyg environment in Zikula. We could enact a different type of contribution policy for the Docs CMS than for the wiki, although I think we'd want to focus on keeping the barriers the same (i.e., no CLA per-se for the relnotes writing part of the CMS with a deeper reaching policy?) Perhaps we have a funnel+filter approach like this for any guide written on the wiki, from Release Notes to User Guide. Let's take the release notes beats as a use case: * Consider a new namespace ([[Relnote:]]?) if that helps us sequester that content better. * Make it clear that editing the relnotes on the wiki beyond a certain level may require a contribution agreement. * Minor edits and additions that are not copyrightable are considered safe for conversion from wiki to CLA-covered guides in an SCM. * Major edits and contributions require i) the editor actually have a CLA with Fedora Project, and ii) they agree to be tracked/included as an author. * When we include relnotes content, the Docs Team needs to add the steps of attributing contributions that are copyrightable. This is done by identifying the changes via the wiki history tool, then including a brief description and permanent URI for that history change in the SCM commit; ideally, one commit per attribution in some reasonable fashion. This allows tracking back for any future copyright requirements. Wow, that's a bit of extra work. Is it worth it? It might be necessary regardless. Automating the last step in some manner would be a good idea. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 05:33:38 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:33:38 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <1245944449.29465.177.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245944449.29465.177.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090626053338.GO10691@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:40:49AM -0500, Shaun McCance wrote: > On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 18:58 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that > > cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the > > Release Notes and the Installation Guide. Currently the works are > > under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. > > The Gnome documentation team is also moving to CC BY SA 3.0, > away from the GFDL. I hope this will help downstream changes > or any upstreaming you might want to do in the future. That is great news! We used to borrow (in Fedora Docs) enormous chunks from the GNOME Documentation Style Guide, but had to give that up when we dropped using the GFDL. The Creative Commons mission seems to be working. I love how it took several versions to gain acceptance, just like software. > By the way, I don't know if any of the documentation you make > contains non-trivial code, but we were concerned about license > restrictions for code, and we got the following boilerplate > from the fine people at the SFLC: Good point to cover, let's keep an eye on any suggestions Spot brings forth and make sure there is a section like this for non-trivial code. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 13:08:29 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:08:29 -0400 Subject: [Bug 450331] lack of documentation on restoring from bare-metal (UUID problem) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906261308.n5QD8TE1026710@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=450331 Paul W. Frields changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |stickster at gmail.com --- Comment #2 from Paul W. Frields 2009-06-26 09:08:28 EDT --- Hm, seems like a very odd target for the User Guide; most users would never want to touch this kind of procedure, but a sysadmin might. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Jun 26 13:14:28 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:14:28 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <20090626052212.GN10691@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <4A439FD6.9050402@redhat.com> <20090625192253.GE10691@calliope.phig.org> <4A43FEBD.2000706@redhat.com> <1245970458.4359.41.camel@thunder> <20090626052212.GN10691@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <1246022068.4563.3.camel@thunder> On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 22:22 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 06:54:18PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 18:48 -0400, Tom "spot" Callaway wrote: > > > On 06/25/2009 03:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > > When we went from GFDL to OPL we specifically had to ask everyone > > > > because none of the content works were under the Fedora CLA. The > > > > stated reasoning at the time iirc was, we wouldn't have to do this > > > > check with everyone again if we had to relicense because we had the > > > > CLA. > > > > > > I think the important distinction that I missed was that I thought you > > > were only referring to the reference documentation in the separate files > > > (e.g. Release Guide), where there are well defined lists of the > > > contributors. For the wiki, that task is far too major and we would > > > definitely want to leverage the CLA to relicense that content. > > > > > > > There is still a problem, though. Most, if not all, of our guides start > > on the wiki. I know a lot of information that went into the Security > > Guide came from the wiki and thus from various developers. > > Aye, there's the rub. I think only the Installation Guide doesn't > have wiki sourcing in it. > > One difference going in to the future is that we have worked on having > improved editing via the Docs CMS (Zikula), and I can foresee Docs > moving most of this editing to the improved wysiwyg environment in > Zikula. We could enact a different type of contribution policy for > the Docs CMS than for the wiki, although I think we'd want to focus on > keeping the barriers the same (i.e., no CLA per-se for the relnotes > writing part of the CMS with a deeper reaching policy?) > > Perhaps we have a funnel+filter approach like this for any guide > written on the wiki, from Release Notes to User Guide. Let's take the > release notes beats as a use case: > > * Consider a new namespace ([[Relnote:]]?) if that helps us sequester > that content better. > > * Make it clear that editing the relnotes on the wiki beyond a certain > level may require a contribution agreement. > > * Minor edits and additions that are not copyrightable are considered > safe for conversion from wiki to CLA-covered guides in an SCM. > > * Major edits and contributions require i) the editor actually have a > CLA with Fedora Project, and ii) they agree to be tracked/included > as an author. > > * When we include relnotes content, the Docs Team needs to add the > steps of attributing contributions that are copyrightable. This is > done by identifying the changes via the wiki history tool, then > including a brief description and permanent URI for that history > change in the SCM commit; ideally, one commit per attribution in > some reasonable fashion. This allows tracking back for any future > copyright requirements. > > Wow, that's a bit of extra work. Is it worth it? It might be > necessary regardless. Automating the last step in some manner would > be a good idea. > > - Karsten Why would we allow people to not sign the CLA to write for the relnotes? Don't we want contributors of Fedora to be our contributors for the relnotes? Especially seeing as how this single document gets wedged into every release and is posted or referred to in many other announcements (i.e. high visibility). Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 13:27:59 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 09:27:59 -0400 Subject: [Bug 450331] lack of documentation on restoring from bare-metal (UUID problem) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906261327.n5QDRxOD031503@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=450331 --- Comment #3 from Eric Christensen 2009-06-26 09:27:58 EDT --- Yes it does. I'd like to see our Administration Guide come back. This would go nicely there. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From luis.villa at gmail.com Fri Jun 26 11:01:12 2009 From: luis.villa at gmail.com (Luis Villa) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 07:01:12 -0400 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <20090626053338.GO10691@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245944449.29465.177.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20090626053338.GO10691@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <2cb10c440906260401j22721c89l6c992fd240f86246@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 1:33 AM, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 10:40:49AM -0500, Shaun McCance wrote: >> On Wed, 2009-06-24 at 18:58 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: >> > The Docs Team has recently reached consensus to change licenses that >> > cover the various full-size guides the team works on, such as the >> > Release Notes and the Installation Guide. ?Currently the works are >> > under the OPL 1.0, and the intention is to switch to the CC BY SA 3.0. >> >> The Gnome documentation team is also moving to CC BY SA 3.0, >> away from the GFDL. ?I hope this will help downstream changes >> or any upstreaming you might want to do in the future. > > That is great news! ?We used to borrow (in Fedora Docs) enormous > chunks from the GNOME Documentation Style Guide, but had to give that > up when we dropped using the GFDL. > > The Creative Commons mission seems to be working. ?I love > how it took several versions to gain acceptance, just like software. Of course, they didn't get it right (3.0 still has the idiotic and useless DRM clause) but momentum and success makes up for a lot of flaws. ;) Luis From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 14:57:54 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 10:57:54 -0400 Subject: [Bug 450331] lack of documentation on restoring from bare-metal (UUID problem) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906261457.n5QEvsYB021444@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=450331 --- Comment #4 from Gene Czarcinski 2009-06-26 10:57:54 EDT --- Paul ... I believe you are correct about this being more appropriate info for a sysadmin or an advanced user. However, even not-so-experienced users may hit this problem. I recently changed my disk layouts and root ("/") how is a LVM logical volume with a separate /boot on a real partition. In this case, the LVM device is used in the grub.conf. However, even logical volumes have UUIDs and if there is a duplicate, things get very messy. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From simon at zikula.org Fri Jun 26 15:21:48 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:21:48 +0100 Subject: Online Poll In-Reply-To: <1245949695.4359.29.camel@thunder> References: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> <018c01c9f5b6$40c70e90$c2552bb0$@org> <1245949695.4359.29.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <008001c9f671$d3711270$7a533750$@org> > Point me! :) Eric, Either of these two may be useful: http://code.zikula.org/advancedpolls/downloads On that page is both advanced polls and polls - polls is more simple, and as a result a little more up to date, while advanced polls packs a few more options. You can see a bit more about this choice on the project's wiki: http://code.zikula.org/advancedpolls/wiki Simon From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Fri Jun 26 15:39:08 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:39:08 -0400 Subject: Online Poll In-Reply-To: <008001c9f671$d3711270$7a533750$@org> References: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> <018c01c9f5b6$40c70e90$c2552bb0$@org> <1245949695.4359.29.camel@thunder> <008001c9f671$d3711270$7a533750$@org> Message-ID: On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Simon Birtwistle wrote: >> Point me! ?:) > > Eric, > > Either of these two may be useful: > http://code.zikula.org/advancedpolls/downloads > > On that page is both advanced polls and polls - polls is more simple, and as > a result a little more up to date, while advanced polls packs a few more > options. ?You can see a bit more about this choice on the project's wiki: > http://code.zikula.org/advancedpolls/wiki > > > Simon > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Lets package both - now that we have the 'template' this stuff should be significantly easier. From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Jun 26 15:53:13 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 11:53:13 -0400 Subject: Online Poll In-Reply-To: References: <4A422457.2060002@gmail.com> <20090624132004.GH4534@localhost.localdomain> <018c01c9f5b6$40c70e90$c2552bb0$@org> <1245949695.4359.29.camel@thunder> <008001c9f671$d3711270$7a533750$@org> Message-ID: <1246031593.5579.2.camel@thunder> On Fri, 2009-06-26 at 11:39 -0400, David Nalley wrote: > On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Simon Birtwistle wrote: > >> Point me! :) > > > > Eric, > > > > Either of these two may be useful: > > http://code.zikula.org/advancedpolls/downloads > > > > On that page is both advanced polls and polls - polls is more simple, and as > > a result a little more up to date, while advanced polls packs a few more > > options. You can see a bit more about this choice on the project's wiki: > > http://code.zikula.org/advancedpolls/wiki > > > > > > Simon > > > Lets package both - now that we have the 'template' this stuff should > be significantly easier. > On it. Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 19:53:38 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:53:38 -0400 Subject: [Bug 508379] New: Need to package "Simple Voting System" Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Need to package "Simple Voting System" https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508379 Summary: Need to package "Simple Voting System" Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All URL: http://code.zikula.org/advancedpolls/downloads OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: medium Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com ReportedBy: eric at christensenplace.us QAContact: eric at christensenplace.us CC: stickster at gmail.com Blocks: 504066 Classification: Fedora Need to package "Simple Voting System". -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 19:53:38 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 15:53:38 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906261953.n5QJrcwZ027570@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |508379 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 20:06:52 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:06:52 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504066] CMS for docs.fp.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906262006.n5QK6q13030547@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504066 Eric Christensen changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Depends on| |508382 -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 20:06:51 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 16:06:51 -0400 Subject: [Bug 508382] New: Package Advanced Voting System for Zikula Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Package Advanced Voting System for Zikula https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508382 Summary: Package Advanced Voting System for Zikula Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All URL: http://code.zikula.org/advancedpolls/downloads OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: medium Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com ReportedBy: eric at christensenplace.us QAContact: eric at christensenplace.us CC: stickster at gmail.com Blocks: 504066 Classification: Fedora Need to package Advanced Voting System for Zikula -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 21:18:29 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:18:29 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504068] Update task lists In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906262118.n5QLITS2012830@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504068 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|piotrdrag at gmail.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Fri Jun 26 21:18:42 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:18:42 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504064] Publican migration In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906262118.n5QLIgDo009265@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504064 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|piotrdrag at gmail.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From kwade at redhat.com Mon Jun 29 10:35:50 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 03:35:50 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <1246022068.4563.3.camel@thunder> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <4A439FD6.9050402@redhat.com> <20090625192253.GE10691@calliope.phig.org> <4A43FEBD.2000706@redhat.com> <1245970458.4359.41.camel@thunder> <20090626052212.GN10691@calliope.phig.org> <1246022068.4563.3.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <20090629103550.GE22698@calliope.phig.org> On Fri, Jun 26, 2009 at 09:14:28AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > > Why would we allow people to not sign the CLA to write for the relnotes? > Don't we want contributors of Fedora to be our contributors for the > relnotes? Especially seeing as how this single document gets wedged > into every release and is posted or referred to in many other > announcements (i.e. high visibility). Please re-read the below funnel+filter, I think it addresses your questions. The CLA in this idea is required at a certain point in the contribution. Realize that if we could remove the CLA requirement for the rest of the wiki, that would be a good thing. We then need to deal with what happens when we want to convert that content to a guide, how much it is, etc. Since we have this already for the relnotes but in a centralized set of pages, perhaps we can be clever about it. - Karsten > On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 22:22 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > > One difference going in to the future is that we have worked on having > > improved editing via the Docs CMS (Zikula), and I can foresee Docs > > moving most of this editing to the improved wysiwyg environment in > > Zikula. We could enact a different type of contribution policy for > > the Docs CMS than for the wiki, although I think we'd want to focus on > > keeping the barriers the same (i.e., no CLA per-se for the relnotes > > writing part of the CMS with a deeper reaching policy?) > > > > Perhaps we have a funnel+filter approach like this for any guide > > written on the wiki, from Release Notes to User Guide. Let's take the > > release notes beats as a use case: > > > > * Consider a new namespace ([[Relnote:]]?) if that helps us sequester > > that content better. > > > > * Make it clear that editing the relnotes on the wiki beyond a certain > > level may require a contribution agreement. > > > > * Minor edits and additions that are not copyrightable are considered > > safe for conversion from wiki to CLA-covered guides in an SCM. > > > > * Major edits and contributions require i) the editor actually have a > > CLA with Fedora Project, and ii) they agree to be tracked/included > > as an author. > > > > * When we include relnotes content, the Docs Team needs to add the > > steps of attributing contributions that are copyrightable. This is > > done by identifying the changes via the wiki history tool, then > > including a brief description and permanent URI for that history > > change in the SCM commit; ideally, one commit per attribution in > > some reasonable fashion. This allows tracking back for any future > > copyright requirements. > > > > Wow, that's a bit of extra work. Is it worth it? It might be > > necessary regardless. Automating the last step in some manner would > > be a good idea. > > > > - Karsten > -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Mon Jun 29 22:19:51 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 03:49:51 +0530 Subject: FOSS Translation Tools Message-ID: <78323d480906291519v722f5fe4v693c7d671344e75e@mail.gmail.com> Very detailed manuals - http://en.flossmanuals.net/opentranslationtools http://en.flossmanuals.net/videotranslation Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://amani.topcities.com http://www.logicamani.co.cc From mikkel at infinity-ltd.com Tue Jun 30 02:18:13 2009 From: mikkel at infinity-ltd.com (Mikkel L. Ellertson) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 21:18:13 -0500 Subject: Documentation error. Message-ID: <4A4975E5.3010405@infinity-ltd.com> I was reading the install instructions for Fedora 11 on the Wiki and ran into an error. http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/en-US/html/ch03s04.html#d0e1197 USB pen drive If you cannot boot from the DVD/CD-ROM drive, but you can boot using a USB device, such as a USB pen drive, the following alternative boot method is available: To boot using a USB pen drive, use the dd command to copy the diskboot.img image file from the /images/ directory on the DVD or CD-ROM #1. For example: dd if=diskboot.img of=/dev/sda Your BIOS must support booting from a USB device in order for this boot method to work. The problem is that the file diskboot.img isn't there. (It wasn't in Fedora 10 either.) The README in the /images/ directory talks about it as well. Mikkel -- Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Jun 30 02:23:33 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 19:23:33 -0700 Subject: changing content licenses (OPL => CC BY SA) In-Reply-To: <4A43FEBD.2000706@redhat.com> References: <20090625015816.GC10691@calliope.phig.org> <1245933466.10234.124.camel@concord3.proximity.on.ca> <4A43969D.7090303@redhat.com> <4A439FD6.9050402@redhat.com> <20090625192253.GE10691@calliope.phig.org> <4A43FEBD.2000706@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090630022333.GG28739@calliope.phig.org> On Thu, Jun 25, 2009 at 06:48:29PM -0400, Tom spot Callaway wrote: > On 06/25/2009 03:22 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > When we went from GFDL to OPL we specifically had to ask everyone > > because none of the content works were under the Fedora CLA. The > > stated reasoning at the time iirc was, we wouldn't have to do this > > check with everyone again if we had to relicense because we had the > > CLA. > > I think the important distinction that I missed was that I thought you > were only referring to the reference documentation in the separate files > (e.g. Release Guide), where there are well defined lists of the > contributors. For the wiki, that task is far too major and we would > definitely want to leverage the CLA to relicense that content. Also consider that wiki content is converted to reference guides in a regular and ad hoc fashion, making this spaghetti even wackier. What do we ned to be be ready to invoke the CLA powers and relicense the wiki? Some more noise on the subject? I'll post for the Plant, maybe an article in FWN, ... where else? What else? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 30 02:23:32 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:23:32 -0400 Subject: Documentation error. In-Reply-To: <4A4975E5.3010405@infinity-ltd.com> References: <4A4975E5.3010405@infinity-ltd.com> Message-ID: <1246328612.4454.8.camel@thunder> On Mon, 2009-06-29 at 21:18 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote: > I was reading the install instructions for Fedora 11 on the Wiki and > ran into an error. > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/en-US/html/ch03s04.html#d0e1197 > > USB pen drive > If you cannot boot from the DVD/CD-ROM drive, but you can boot > using a USB device, such as a USB pen drive, the following > alternative boot method is available: > To boot using a USB pen drive, use the dd command to copy the > diskboot.img image file from the /images/ directory on the DVD or > CD-ROM #1. For example: > > dd if=diskboot.img of=/dev/sda > > Your BIOS must support booting from a USB device in order for > this boot method to work. > > The problem is that the file diskboot.img isn't there. (It wasn't in > Fedora 10 either.) The README in the /images/ directory talks about > it as well. > > Mikkel Mikkel, Thanks for the information. Could you please submit a bug request for this, please? You can find information on filing a bug in the "feedback" section[1] of the Install Guide. [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/en-US/html/pr01s02.html -- Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Lead Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 13:45:30 2009 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:45:30 +0200 Subject: Howto: Compiz on Fedora Message-ID: <64b14b300906300645r184d31d1t1d402af5e0bc8e89@mail.gmail.com> I updated Fedora wiki pages with instructions on how to install Compiz on Fedora 10 and 11: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/compiz Please use this and give back some feedback, or even better go to wiki page and edit it to make it better. ps. there is also a great Compiz WIki, please consider adding your expertise which graphics cards work and which don't to this page. I have some experence with Intel 945, 946 and 915 so I added that info on that Wiki page: http://wiki.compiz-fusion.org/Hardware/ Cheers! -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From bruno at wolff.to Tue Jun 30 14:44:57 2009 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 09:44:57 -0500 Subject: Howto: Compiz on Fedora In-Reply-To: <64b14b300906300645r184d31d1t1d402af5e0bc8e89@mail.gmail.com> References: <64b14b300906300645r184d31d1t1d402af5e0bc8e89@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090630144457.GB21144@wolff.to> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 15:45:30 +0200, Valent Turkovic wrote: > I updated Fedora wiki pages with instructions on how to install Compiz > on Fedora 10 and 11: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/compiz > > Please use this and give back some feedback, or even better go to wiki > page and edit it to make it better. Why are some many packages needed to be explicitly included in the yum install command line? Shouldn't most of these be covered as dependencies? Is compiz still restricted to one row in the desktop taskbar display? I like to have lots of desktops (12 to 15) and want to use 3 rows as 1 row ends up taking too much space. You should also include instructions for how to switch back to metacity. I found it really annoying the first time I tried compiz, found out I couldn't easily have lots of desktops and wasn't sure how to switch back. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 30 15:13:52 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:13:52 -0400 Subject: [Bug 508930] New: Move RPM Guide to wiki Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Move RPM Guide to wiki https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508930 Summary: Move RPM Guide to wiki Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com ReportedBy: eric at christensenplace.us QAContact: eric at christensenplace.us CC: stickster at gmail.com Classification: Fedora Need to move the RPM Guide from http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/ to the wiki. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 30 15:23:09 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:23:09 -0400 Subject: [Bug 508935] New: Need to move the Documentation Guide to the wiki Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Need to move the Documentation Guide to the wiki https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508935 Summary: Need to move the Documentation Guide to the wiki Product: Fedora Documentation Version: devel Platform: All URL: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_U S/ OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: project-tracking AssignedTo: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com ReportedBy: eric at christensenplace.us QAContact: eric at christensenplace.us CC: stickster at gmail.com Classification: Fedora Need to move the Documentation Guide to the wiki for further clean up and development. -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From mikkel at infinity-ltd.com Tue Jun 30 15:44:52 2009 From: mikkel at infinity-ltd.com (Mikkel L. Ellertson) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:44:52 -0500 Subject: Documentation error. In-Reply-To: <1246328612.4454.8.camel@thunder> References: <4A4975E5.3010405@infinity-ltd.com> <1246328612.4454.8.camel@thunder> Message-ID: <4A4A32F4.1010507@infinity-ltd.com> Eric Christensen wrote: > > Mikkel, > Thanks for the information. Could you please submit a bug request for > this, please? You can find information on filing a bug in the > "feedback" section[1] of the Install Guide. > > [1] > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/en-US/html/pr01s02.html > Done. Bug 508942 (I am not good at writing them, but it is there.) Mike -- No boom today... boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. - Susan Ivanova B5 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 30 15:50:56 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:50:56 -0400 Subject: [Bug 508935] Need to move the Documentation Guide to the wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906301550.n5UFou5t029035@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508935 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |piotrdrag at gmail.com --- Comment #1 from Piotr Dr?g 2009-06-30 11:50:55 EDT --- Translation submission to CVS has been disabled. https://translate.fedoraproject.org/projects/docs-documentation-guide/HEAD -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue Jun 30 15:51:44 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:51:44 -0400 Subject: [Bug 508930] Move RPM Guide to wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200906301551.n5UFpiI0001683@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508930 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |piotrdrag at gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 30 16:11:17 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:11:17 -0400 Subject: Removal of Fedora Documentation products in BZ. Message-ID: <1246378277.3429.65.camel@echristensen.tkctech.com> Request the following products be removed from the Fedora Documentation component in BZ: hardening press-release proxy-guide toolchain-devel usb-hotplug xml-normalize docs-common desktop-up2date mirror-tutorial updates translation-guide translation-guide-windows All tickets in these products should be closed. Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Lead Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From dkl at redhat.com Tue Jun 30 16:19:02 2009 From: dkl at redhat.com (David Lawrence) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:19:02 -0400 Subject: Removal of Fedora Documentation products in BZ. In-Reply-To: <1246378277.3429.65.camel@echristensen.tkctech.com> References: <1246378277.3429.65.camel@echristensen.tkctech.com> Message-ID: <4A4A3AF6.902@redhat.com> On 06/30/2009 12:11 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > Request the following products be removed from the Fedora Documentation > component in BZ: > > hardening > press-release > proxy-guide > toolchain-devel > usb-hotplug > xml-normalize > docs-common > desktop-up2date > mirror-tutorial > updates > translation-guide > translation-guide-windows > > hardening: deleted press-release: deleted proxy-guide: still has 1 bug assigned to it toolchain-devel: has 10 bugs assigned to it usb-hotplug: has 1 bug assigned to it xml-normalize: has 1 bug docs-common: has 40 bugs desktop-up2date: has 1 bug mirror-tutorial: has 12 bugs updates: has 3 bugs translation-guide: deleted translation-guide-windows: has 1 bug Some I was able to remove. The others will need their bugs moved to a different component so that their old component can be removed. Just being closed is not enough. Thanks Dave > All tickets in these products should be closed. > > Thanks, > Eric Christensen > Fedora Docs Project Lead > > Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 > E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org > IRC: Sparks on freenode.net > > GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 > -- David Lawrence, RHCE dkl at redhat.com ------------------------------------ Red Hat, Inc. Web: www.redhat.com 1801 Varsity Drive Raleigh, NC 27606 From valent.turkovic at gmail.com Tue Jun 30 16:23:50 2009 From: valent.turkovic at gmail.com (Valent Turkovic) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 18:23:50 +0200 Subject: Howto: Compiz on Fedora In-Reply-To: <20090630144457.GB21144@wolff.to> References: <64b14b300906300645r184d31d1t1d402af5e0bc8e89@mail.gmail.com> <20090630144457.GB21144@wolff.to> Message-ID: <64b14b300906300923n262f8f6ete75028776d288959@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote: > On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 15:45:30 +0200, > ?Valent Turkovic wrote: >> I updated Fedora wiki pages with instructions on how to install Compiz >> on Fedora 10 and 11: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/RenderingProject/compiz >> >> Please use this and give back some feedback, or even better go to wiki >> page and edit it to make it better. > > Why are some many packages needed to be explicitly included in the yum install > command line? Shouldn't most of these be covered as dependencies? I don't know, I'm not a packager, but you can easily check and report back to this list. One other solution would also be to make a virtual package... > Is compiz still restricted to one row in the desktop taskbar display? > I like to have lots of desktops (12 to 15) and want to use 3 rows as 1 row > ends up taking too much space. Not sure, you can also ask on compiz mailing lists for more details, I only use 4 desktop and that is plenty for me ;) > You should also include instructions for how to switch back to metacity. > I found it really annoying the first time I tried compiz, found out I > couldn't easily have lots of desktops and wasn't sure how to switch back. I had no issues of which you talk about so if you have some experience with this please feel free to share your experience and also for others on fedora wiki. It is easy to get access to write to it. if you really don't want then write it up and I'll post it there for you. Cheers. -- http://kernelreloaded.blog385.com/ linux, blog, anime, spirituality, windsurf, wireless registered as user #367004 with the Linux Counter, http://counter.li.org. ICQ: 2125241, Skype: valent.turkovic From mmcgrath at redhat.com Tue Jun 30 16:26:31 2009 From: mmcgrath at redhat.com (Mike McGrath) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 11:26:31 -0500 (CDT) Subject: Outage Notification - 2009-07-01 01:00 UTC Message-ID: There will be an outage starting at 2009-07-01 01:00 UTC, which will last approximately 2 hours. To convert UTC to your local time, take a look at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/UTCHowto or run: date -d '2009-07-01 01:00 UTC' Affected Services: Buildsystem CVS / Source Control Unaffected Services: Database DNS Fedora Hosted Fedora People Fedora Talk Mail Mirror System Torrent Translation Services Websites Ticket Link: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1496 Reason for Outage: Final migration step for new cvs server. It will hopefully be offline for only 30-45 minutes. The additional time is for some further tuning if needed and some verification steps. Contact Information: Please join #fedora-admin in irc.freenode.net or respond to this email to track the status of this outage. From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 30 16:49:26 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:49:26 -0400 Subject: Removal of Fedora Documentation products in BZ. In-Reply-To: <4A4A3AF6.902@redhat.com> References: <1246378277.3429.65.camel@echristensen.tkctech.com> <4A4A3AF6.902@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1246380566.3429.104.camel@echristensen.tkctech.com> Ahhh... Okay. I'll move them in a few minutes. On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 12:19 -0400, David Lawrence wrote: > On 06/30/2009 12:11 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > > Request the following products be removed from the Fedora Documentation > > component in BZ: > > > > hardening > > press-release > > proxy-guide > > toolchain-devel > > usb-hotplug > > xml-normalize > > docs-common > > desktop-up2date > > mirror-tutorial > > updates > > translation-guide > > translation-guide-windows > > > > > > hardening: deleted > press-release: deleted > proxy-guide: still has 1 bug assigned to it > toolchain-devel: has 10 bugs assigned to it > usb-hotplug: has 1 bug assigned to it > xml-normalize: has 1 bug > docs-common: has 40 bugs > desktop-up2date: has 1 bug > mirror-tutorial: has 12 bugs > updates: has 3 bugs > translation-guide: deleted > translation-guide-windows: has 1 bug > > Some I was able to remove. The others will need their bugs moved to a > different component so that their old component can be removed. Just > being closed is not enough. > > Thanks > Dave > > > > All tickets in these products should be closed. > > > > Thanks, > > Eric Christensen > > Fedora Docs Project Lead > > > > Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 > > E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org > > IRC: Sparks on freenode.net > > > > GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Jun 30 17:25:01 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 10:25:01 -0700 Subject: CMS (Zikula) kick-off In-Reply-To: <20090625224218.GL10691@calliope.phig.org> References: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> <20090625224218.GL10691@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4A4A4A6D.5070800@redhat.com> Karsten Wade said the following on 06/25/2009 03:42 PM Pacific Time: > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 06:13:22PM -0700, John Poelstra wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I've volunteered to help kick off and facilitate the Fedora cross-team >> CMS (Zicula) planning and implementation meetings. I think things will >> work best if each team puts forth a representative. > > It is not clear in your email to the various teams what the CMS scope > is. I understood the scope to have been previously defined. I'm coming to this at the request of a few people who asked me to help with the "project management" part of "completing the whole thing" and making sure all the different interested and affected groups have a voice and a venue to participate. So I'm admittedly arriving late with the understood goal of helping to facilitate the process of GTD (getting things done). Eric C. and David N., do I have a correct understanding of what you want my help with? > AIUI, the scope still is this: > > 1. Zikula is rolling out to cover docs.fp.o; > 2. We need Websites, Design, Infra teams help with that; > 3. All teams should be aware that we are seriously considering Zikula > for covering other Fedora CMS needs, such as fedoraproject.org/*. > > Otherwise it sounds as if we are rolling Zikula under other parts of > fp.org. > > If that is actually the case, we should make that clear instead. I was under the impression this was already understood on the different teams since representatives from each team would come to the meetings. How can I be clearer about the purpose? >> We will hold our >> meetings on IRC or over Fedora Talk a > > IRC++ > IRC seems to be the overwhelming winner. John From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 30 17:32:39 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:32:39 -0400 Subject: CMS (Zikula) kick-off In-Reply-To: <4A4A4A6D.5070800@redhat.com> References: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> <20090625224218.GL10691@calliope.phig.org> <4A4A4A6D.5070800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1246383159.3429.149.camel@echristensen.tkctech.com> On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 10:25 -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > Karsten Wade said the following on 06/25/2009 03:42 PM Pacific Time: > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 06:13:22PM -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I've volunteered to help kick off and facilitate the Fedora cross-team > >> CMS (Zicula) planning and implementation meetings. I think things will > >> work best if each team puts forth a representative. > > > > It is not clear in your email to the various teams what the CMS scope > > is. > > I understood the scope to have been previously defined. > > I'm coming to this at the request of a few people who asked me to help > with the "project management" part of "completing the whole thing" and > making sure all the different interested and affected groups have a > voice and a venue to participate. So I'm admittedly arriving late with > the understood goal of helping to facilitate the process of GTD (getting > things done). > > Eric C. and David N., do I have a correct understanding of what you want > my help with? > > > > AIUI, the scope still is this: > > > > 1. Zikula is rolling out to cover docs.fp.o; > > 2. We need Websites, Design, Infra teams help with that; > > 3. All teams should be aware that we are seriously considering Zikula > > for covering other Fedora CMS needs, such as fedoraproject.org/*. That looks like a definitive list of things that need to happen. Each group would have a piece of the puzzle. > > > > Otherwise it sounds as if we are rolling Zikula under other parts of > > fp.org. Supposedly there are other groups that want to use Zikula as a solution to their problems. By us getting our work done first we should make it a lot easier for them to roll out their solutions as all the art work would have been completed, infrastructure would know how to properly roll out and manage an instance, and the Docs Team would have documented use of the CMS. > > > > If that is actually the case, we should make that clear instead. > > I was under the impression this was already understood on the different > teams since representatives from each team would come to the meetings. > How can I be clearer about the purpose? > > >> We will hold our > >> meetings on IRC or over Fedora Talk a > > > > IRC++ > > > > IRC seems to be the overwhelming winner. IRC it is. Maybe Gobby for managing notes (in which we could use that IRC-like chat)? > > John > Thanks John, Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 30 16:11:17 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:11:17 -0400 Subject: Removal of Fedora Documentation products in BZ. Message-ID: <1246378277.3429.65.camel@echristensen.tkctech.com> Request the following products be removed from the Fedora Documentation component in BZ: hardening press-release proxy-guide toolchain-devel usb-hotplug xml-normalize docs-common desktop-up2date mirror-tutorial updates translation-guide translation-guide-windows All tickets in these products should be closed. Thanks, Eric Christensen Fedora Docs Project Lead Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org IRC: Sparks on freenode.net GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 30 16:49:26 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:49:26 -0400 Subject: Removal of Fedora Documentation products in BZ. In-Reply-To: <4A4A3AF6.902@redhat.com> References: <1246378277.3429.65.camel@echristensen.tkctech.com> <4A4A3AF6.902@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1246380566.3429.104.camel@echristensen.tkctech.com> Ahhh... Okay. I'll move them in a few minutes. On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 12:19 -0400, David Lawrence wrote: > On 06/30/2009 12:11 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > > Request the following products be removed from the Fedora Documentation > > component in BZ: > > > > hardening > > press-release > > proxy-guide > > toolchain-devel > > usb-hotplug > > xml-normalize > > docs-common > > desktop-up2date > > mirror-tutorial > > updates > > translation-guide > > translation-guide-windows > > > > > > hardening: deleted > press-release: deleted > proxy-guide: still has 1 bug assigned to it > toolchain-devel: has 10 bugs assigned to it > usb-hotplug: has 1 bug assigned to it > xml-normalize: has 1 bug > docs-common: has 40 bugs > desktop-up2date: has 1 bug > mirror-tutorial: has 12 bugs > updates: has 3 bugs > translation-guide: deleted > translation-guide-windows: has 1 bug > > Some I was able to remove. The others will need their bugs moved to a > different component so that their old component can be removed. Just > being closed is not enough. > > Thanks > Dave > > > > All tickets in these products should be closed. > > > > Thanks, > > Eric Christensen > > Fedora Docs Project Lead > > > > Fedora Talk: 5102043 Phone: 919-424-0063 x 5102043 > > E-Mail: sparks at fedoraproject.org SIP: sparks at talk.fedoraproject.org > > IRC: Sparks on freenode.net > > > > GPG Fingerprint: CA02 4ACA EB6C 1A76 F0D6 1127 7D04 D240 BD0C 14C1 > > > > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 30 17:32:39 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 13:32:39 -0400 Subject: CMS (Zikula) kick-off In-Reply-To: <4A4A4A6D.5070800@redhat.com> References: <4A402C32.1060909@redhat.com> <20090625224218.GL10691@calliope.phig.org> <4A4A4A6D.5070800@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1246383159.3429.149.camel@echristensen.tkctech.com> On Tue, 2009-06-30 at 10:25 -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > Karsten Wade said the following on 06/25/2009 03:42 PM Pacific Time: > > On Mon, Jun 22, 2009 at 06:13:22PM -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I've volunteered to help kick off and facilitate the Fedora cross-team > >> CMS (Zicula) planning and implementation meetings. I think things will > >> work best if each team puts forth a representative. > > > > It is not clear in your email to the various teams what the CMS scope > > is. > > I understood the scope to have been previously defined. > > I'm coming to this at the request of a few people who asked me to help > with the "project management" part of "completing the whole thing" and > making sure all the different interested and affected groups have a > voice and a venue to participate. So I'm admittedly arriving late with > the understood goal of helping to facilitate the process of GTD (getting > things done). > > Eric C. and David N., do I have a correct understanding of what you want > my help with? > > > > AIUI, the scope still is this: > > > > 1. Zikula is rolling out to cover docs.fp.o; > > 2. We need Websites, Design, Infra teams help with that; > > 3. All teams should be aware that we are seriously considering Zikula > > for covering other Fedora CMS needs, such as fedoraproject.org/*. That looks like a definitive list of things that need to happen. Each group would have a piece of the puzzle. > > > > Otherwise it sounds as if we are rolling Zikula under other parts of > > fp.org. Supposedly there are other groups that want to use Zikula as a solution to their problems. By us getting our work done first we should make it a lot easier for them to roll out their solutions as all the art work would have been completed, infrastructure would know how to properly roll out and manage an instance, and the Docs Team would have documented use of the CMS. > > > > If that is actually the case, we should make that clear instead. > > I was under the impression this was already understood on the different > teams since representatives from each team would come to the meetings. > How can I be clearer about the purpose? > > >> We will hold our > >> meetings on IRC or over Fedora Talk a > > > > IRC++ > > > > IRC seems to be the overwhelming winner. IRC it is. Maybe Gobby for managing notes (in which we could use that IRC-like chat)? > > John > Thanks John, Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Jun 30 23:25:37 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 19:25:37 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Docs Schedule In-Reply-To: <4A44373C.7000002@redhat.com> References: <4A44373C.7000002@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1246404337.4461.4.camel@thunder> On Thu, 2009-06-25 at 19:49 -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > I'm still waiting for the tasks you'd like added to the schedule for > Fedora 12 (re: IRC meeting a week or two back). In the mean time for > your reviewing pleasure I've taken a shot at the Fedora 12 Docs schedule > based on Fedora 11. > > Please tell me what needs to be corrected by referencing the task number > here: > --> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html > > As an added bonus I've also created a combined view with the release > engineering schedule (notice the overlay in different colors). The > intention if this version is to place the Docs tasks in the context of > the rest of the release: > --> > http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-and-releng-tasks.html > > And if that wasn't enough, I'm also generating iCal files for this > release that are team specific. So pop this into to your favorite > calendar application and tell me which additional tasks you'd like to > see or have removed. To keep the presentation clean it only includes > the more important tasks/milestones. > -->http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs.ics > > It would be most helpful to get your feedback by next week so I can move > on to tuning the translation schedule. > > Thanks, > John > John, This looks good to me. I'll bring it up in tomorrow's meeting to make sure everyone has looked at it but I don't anticipate many/any changes. Thanks, Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: