From shanebroomhall at gmail.com Fri May 1 06:22:14 2009 From: shanebroomhall at gmail.com (Shane Broomhall) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 16:22:14 +1000 Subject: Self-Introduction Message-ID: <47B19139-21B3-466F-A623-7813CBC6ECAF@gmail.com> HI All, I have just joined the docs list to hopefully start working on some opensource project documentation. I have worked in IT for 19 years, 8 of those in the Australian Military, 11 as a civilian consultant and trainer. I have skills in Linux/Windows/Citrix and have taught courses in all those products. I have also done consulting work on all three. In the past I have created user documentation for consulting work I have done, as well as creating courseware for commercial vendors. I am wanting to make the move across to opensource and if possible be employed in purely opensource work in the near future. At the moment I can spare a few hours a week, and expect that to be the case for a while. Next semester I am starting to learn to program, in C, C++ and Java over the next 12 months, but at the moment only have the ability to create scripts and read very simple source code. If anyone can suggest something that would be appropriate to get me started doing documentation work for the Fedora Project it would be appreciated. Thanks & Cheers from Brisbane Australia, Shane Broomhall shanebroomhall at gmail.com From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri May 1 15:05:11 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:05:11 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Release Notes Message-ID: <36DB3D67983D421480C8FA0863B3BF3B@Aidan> Having done a cycle with Publican, there are a lot of questions raised on how we should go forward. In an attempt to start the discussion, I've captured some of my thoughts on https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 I would appreciate anything that anyone might add to this list of things we should think about, and additional thoughts on those items I was able to think of. If we can put a stake in the ground on some of these earlier rather than later, perhaps the next cycle can be a little more orderly. I've included the trans list on this because some of these very much affect the L10n crew. --McD From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri May 1 15:21:38 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 11:21:38 -0400 Subject: Pictures in the Installation Guide Message-ID: Volume 3 Number 2 of Linux+ magazine included Fedora 10 DVDs and an article on installing Fedora. What was especially interesting about that article was that it was mostly screenshots. Of course, we all understand what a huge maintenance burden those screenshots become for a product produced in umpteen languages. But for some things, and I would argue especially the IG, they are a huge win. The average person sees Linux as something kind of scary. It is too complicated for "someone like me", especially the installation. I have spoken to many people over the past year who would like to try Linux, but are basically afraid. Having all the installation steps laid out in front of you in living color dramatically lowers that barrier. You can see every question, and you can see that is isn't something you can't answer. Perhaps it is biting off more than we can chew, but it seems like it has great potential. One approach would be to somehow encourage magazines like Linux+ to keep doing this, but that particular magazine is in English, and I don't see any evidence it is produced in other languages. A lot of the market is in places that don't speak English, so it would seem to be very valuable to have the IG in particular full of pictures in the local language. Is this really nuts? Is there a lower priced way to approach this? --McD From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Fri May 1 17:36:45 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 13:36:45 -0400 Subject: Pictures in the Installation Guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:21 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > Volume 3 Number 2 of Linux+ magazine included Fedora 10 DVDs and an article > on installing Fedora. ?What was especially interesting about that article > was that it was mostly screenshots. > > Of course, we all understand what a huge maintenance burden those > screenshots become for a product produced in umpteen languages. ?But for > some things, and I would argue especially the IG, they are a huge win. > > The average person sees Linux as something kind of scary. ?It is too > complicated for "someone like me", especially the installation. ?I have > spoken to many people over the past year who would like to try Linux, but > are basically afraid. > > Having all the installation steps laid out in front of you in living color > dramatically lowers that barrier. ?You can see every question, and you can > see that is isn't something you can't answer. > > Perhaps it is biting off more than we can chew, but it seems like it has > great potential. ?One approach would be to somehow encourage magazines like > Linux+ to keep doing this, but that particular magazine is in English, and I > don't see any evidence it is produced in other languages. ?A lot of the > market is in places that don't speak English, so it would seem to be very > valuable to have the IG in particular full of pictures in the local > language. > > Is this really nuts? ?Is there a lower priced way to approach this? > > --McD > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > I'd largely agree that pictures are a bad idea, for the maintenance issues. However Rudi has been putting in tons of work to make that happen with this release. I don't envy the work, but provided we retain Rudi or someone else willing to do the work I am ok with keeping it. From r.landmann at redhat.com Fri May 1 21:35:00 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 07:35:00 +1000 Subject: Pictures in the Installation Guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49FB6B04.6090404@redhat.com> David Nalley wrote: > On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:21 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > >> >> >> A lot of the >> market is in places that don't speak English, so it would seem to be very >> valuable to have the IG in particular full of pictures in the local >> language. >> >> Is this really nuts? Is there a lower priced way to approach this? >> >> --McD >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> >> > > I'd largely agree that pictures are a bad idea, for the maintenance > issues. However Rudi has been putting in tons of work to make that > happen with this release. I don't envy the work, but provided we > retain Rudi or someone else willing to do the work I am ok with > keeping it. > Thanks for the kind words David :) I (evidently!) agree that pictures are invaluable, for all the reasons that John has raised. I invite anyone who hasn't seen the screenshots in the new, expanded Installation Guide to check them out. The relevant part of the English version starts here: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/en-US/html/sn-welcome-x86.html You can find versions in other languages by going to Section 7.10 of any of the languages linked here: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/ Note that the installation process has not yet been completely localised in every language, and has not yet been localised at all in a few. The bad news is that there's no easy way to maintain these. Every time L10N volunteers add another language, screenshots must be taken anew; and every time an installation step changes, we need new screenshots in 36 languages. Also, the screens contain version-specific artwork, meaning that in a perfect world we would have to create a whole new set with every Fedora release. I wasn't planning to do that though; and was only planning to revise "version-obvious" screenshots like the Welcome screen between versions. Note too that the Installation screen artwork for F11 is not present in the PR and that we might need to talk to the artwork team to get this moved up in the schedule in future versions. A few weeks ago, David and I talked about a "Quick Install Guide", which I'm really hoping we can have ready for F12. The QIG could, of course, use the same images as the IG. Comments, suggestions, and feedback are of course very welcome :) Cheers Rudi From erwyn at opensound-radio.org Fri May 1 23:48:45 2009 From: erwyn at opensound-radio.org (Erwyn LENS) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 01:48:45 +0200 Subject: A small Introduction Message-ID: Hello everybody... My name is Martin, I'm 18 years old, french, and french-speaking. I just joined de Docs group because I'm interested in helping fedora project by becoming a translator for Fedora Project's Documentation from English to French. It's the first time I join a group helping a linux project, so I don't know what to do, where to begin... So, if someone could help me for the beginning, I would appreciate. If you have any questions.... Regards.... Martin. From pascal22p at parois.net Sat May 2 00:07:04 2009 From: pascal22p at parois.net (Pascal) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 01:07:04 +0100 Subject: A small Introduction In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090502010704.63c5c875@parois.net> Le Sat, 02 May 2009 01:48:45 +0200, Erwyn LENS a ?crit : > > Hello everybody... Hi, > > My name is Martin, I'm 18 years old, french, and french-speaking. I > just joined de Docs group because I'm interested in helping fedora > project by becoming a translator for Fedora Project's Documentation > from English to French. > > It's the first time I join a group helping a linux project, so I > don't know what to do, where to begin... So, if someone could help me > for the beginning, I would appreciate. We've got a wiki page explaining how to help Fedora: http://doc.fedora-fr.org/wiki/Aider_le_Projet_Fedora More specifically about the traduction: http://doc.fedora-fr.org/wiki/Aider_le_Projet_Fedora Links are in french. Should be an equivalent on fedora project but as you are french :) French "translators"[1] often show up on irc, channel #fedora-fr where you can have a chat with them. Pascal [1] this word might not be english :) From stickster at gmail.com Sat May 2 02:26:12 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 1 May 2009 22:26:12 -0400 Subject: Hooking docs to the commit list Message-ID: <20090502022612.GF29949@localhost.localdomain> If you have a git repo for Fedora Documentation of any kind on Fedora Hosted, you probably want to have commits go to the fedora-docs-commits list. Owners, you can do this the following way: #!/bin/sh ssh fedorahosted.org cd /srv/git/.git mv hooks/update hooks/update.orig ln -s /usr/bin/fedora-git-commit-mail-hook hooks/update exit # --- END You'll want to create a file "commit-list" in the top of that git tree, with the address fedora-docs-commits at redhat.com inside. (You can include as many addresses as you like, one per line, to receive commit messages.) I write this message because I think I did not configure all the various readme* repos correctly and therefore our commits list has missed a few commits. Dreadfully sorry for that! :-( -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From erwyn at opensound-radio.org Sat May 2 09:40:11 2009 From: erwyn at opensound-radio.org (Erwyn LENS) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 11:40:11 +0200 Subject: A small Introduction In-Reply-To: <20090502010704.63c5c875@parois.net> References: <20090502010704.63c5c875@parois.net> Message-ID: On Sat, 2 May 2009 01:07:04 +0100, Pascal wrote: > Le Sat, 02 May 2009 01:48:45 +0200, > Erwyn LENS a ?crit : > >> >> Hello everybody... > > Hi, > >> >> My name is Martin, I'm 18 years old, french, and french-speaking. I >> just joined de Docs group because I'm interested in helping fedora >> project by becoming a translator for Fedora Project's Documentation >> from English to French. >> >> It's the first time I join a group helping a linux project, so I >> don't know what to do, where to begin... So, if someone could help me >> for the beginning, I would appreciate. > > We've got a wiki page explaining how to help Fedora: > http://doc.fedora-fr.org/wiki/Aider_le_Projet_Fedora > > More specifically about the traduction: > http://doc.fedora-fr.org/wiki/Aider_le_Projet_Fedora > > Links are in french. Should be an equivalent on fedora project but as > you are french :) > > French "translators"[1] often show up on irc, channel #fedora-fr where > you can have a chat with them. > > Pascal > > [1] this word might not be english :) Thanks for all these links, it helped me a lot. Maybe I'll unsuscribe this mailing list because i've red on the Fedora project website that Docs don't need translators anymore but L10n do. So I joined the French L10n team. Thanks for all. Martin. From stickster at gmail.com Sat May 2 13:45:55 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 2 May 2009 09:45:55 -0400 Subject: Presto in F11 Message-ID: <20090502134555.GC3520@localhost.localdomain> Hi Docs and Marketing teams, We probably need to update the release notes and, likely, several other pages on the wiki as well. After I posted this blog entry, one of the FESCo members politely pointed out that this feature will probably *not* be enabled in Fedora 11 because of some technical difficulties: http://paul.frields.org/?p=1611 I don't know all the places Presto has been included, because I know "feature lists" have been written in duplicate form in many places. Now would be the time to make sure they reflect reality. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat May 2 14:30:02 2009 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 14:30:02 -0000 Subject: #30: Links to Feature pages for all features discussed In-Reply-To: <056.8d6e63222bc4b520e1812f116730145f@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.8d6e63222bc4b520e1812f116730145f@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.3789074eb59288dadcaa46219413b9fd@fedorahosted.org> #30: Links to Feature pages for all features discussed ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: PR-ready Component: Content | Version: 10.0.0 Resolution: fixed | Keywords: ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat May 2 14:30:20 2009 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 14:30:20 -0000 Subject: #28: Change all Beats to match and aid the new Release Notes organization In-Reply-To: <056.e7730a3528f0ed9b64a26851b5fa799c@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.e7730a3528f0ed9b64a26851b5fa799c@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.893ba840e17f2ab936239b95888254bd@fedorahosted.org> #28: Change all Beats to match and aid the new Release Notes organization ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: defect | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: RC-ready Component: Content | Version: 10.0.0 Resolution: fixed | Keywords: ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat May 2 14:30:40 2009 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 14:30:40 -0000 Subject: #26: Generate release package version diff against FN-1, post to wiki In-Reply-To: <056.f8cbdf1649e35c41771f0d3c30e0072f@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.f8cbdf1649e35c41771f0d3c30e0072f@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.b4d3d693f407e8a405a99858a11c6f09@fedorahosted.org> #26: Generate release package version diff against FN-1, post to wiki ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: RC-ready Component: Content | Version: 10.0.0 Resolution: fixed | Keywords: ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat May 2 14:30:56 2009 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 14:30:56 -0000 Subject: #29: Remove whitespace trigger ugly PDF formatting In-Reply-To: <056.1b37cd5f20147aaca18718e3850cf91b@fedorahosted.org> References: <056.1b37cd5f20147aaca18718e3850cf91b@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <065.fab457e91287f98e8e7d51d32d50b35f@fedorahosted.org> #29: Remove whitespace trigger ugly PDF formatting ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Reporter: quaid | Owner: quaid Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: RC-ready Component: Content | Version: 10.0.0 Resolution: fixed | Keywords: ----------------------+----------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: new => closed * resolution: => fixed -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From release-notes at fedorahosted.org Sat May 2 14:31:36 2009 From: release-notes at fedorahosted.org (Fedora Release Notes) Date: Sat, 02 May 2009 14:31:36 -0000 Subject: #1: Make builds work In-Reply-To: <059.503c51b05a9f845532920ed115764373@fedorahosted.org> References: <059.503c51b05a9f845532920ed115764373@fedorahosted.org> Message-ID: <068.50363b70cad9c2b142ea9a4fcb750939@fedorahosted.org> #1: Make builds work -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Reporter: pfrields | Owner: pfrields Type: task | Status: closed Priority: major | Milestone: publican-ready Component: General | Version: 9.91 Resolution: fixed | Keywords: -----------------------+---------------------------------------------------- Changes (by pfrields): * status: assigned => closed * resolution: => fixed Comment: I believe the master branch works fine with Publican now, thanks to the efforts of rlandmann, jjmcd, and others. -- Ticket URL: Fedora Release Notes Fedora Release Notes From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sat May 2 23:31:48 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 05:01:48 +0530 Subject: Pictures in the Installation Guide Message-ID: <78323d480905021631t3cb1c94cv9dc96fd84d579384@mail.gmail.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Ruediger Landmann wrote: > > The bad news is that there's no easy way to maintain these. Every time > L10N volunteers add another language, screenshots must be taken anew; > and every time an installation step changes, we need new screenshots in > 36 languages. Also, the screens contain version-specific artwork, > meaning that in a perfect world we would have to create a whole new set > with every Fedora release. I wasn't planning to do that though; and was > only planning to revise "version-obvious" screenshots like the Welcome > screen between versions. Note too that the Installation screen artwork > for F11 is not present in the PR and that we might need to talk to the > artwork team to get this moved up in the schedule in future versions. > I think instead of actual screen shots, we should consider high quality mock ups using latex + ps/pdf tricks or just *xml or some other mark up. This way localisation would not be a problem. Chapter 9 on Boot Options can as well include the table of options supported by Anaconda. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://amani.topcities.com -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkn82QgACgkQunMISzvdfU6wdQCgsx/pEiyPhRNvZHttMOaBTPa5 US4An0A2rgp2oXdoXPw+YR6a+FYHN3yl =ouLk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 3 16:13:04 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 09:13:04 -0700 Subject: Docs focus after F11 release Message-ID: <20090503161304.GB20292@calliope.phig.org> Paul and I were talking the other day, very impressed with the quality and quantity of people focused on producing so much good content for F11. Our only concern was the risk of myopia, that is, too near of a focus on F11 and losing site of what comes afterward. We've experienced this, where after a release we drift like sand on the boardwalk. Then I saw this link on IRC: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 I didn't see anything in the mailing list discussing this, so I wanted to start the thread. :) That page has a bunch of good stuff on it. Anything missing? Any ideas about the topics there? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Sun May 3 16:38:54 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 12:38:54 -0400 Subject: Docs focus after F11 release In-Reply-To: <20090503161304.GB20292@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090503161304.GB20292@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > Paul and I were talking the other day, very impressed with the quality > and quantity of people focused on producing so much good content for > F11. ?Our only concern was the risk of myopia, that is, too near of a > focus on F11 and losing site of what comes afterward. ?We've > experienced this, where after a release we drift like sand on the > boardwalk. > > Then I saw this link on IRC: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 > > I didn't see anything in the mailing list discussing this, so I wanted > to start the thread. :) > > That page has a bunch of good stuff on it. ?Anything missing? ?Any > ideas about the topics there? > > - Karsten I think this hit the mailing list, as I think I replied to it trying to encourage a docs FAD at SELF on June 14th. From oglesbyzm at gmail.com Sun May 3 21:35:28 2009 From: oglesbyzm at gmail.com (Zach Oglesby) Date: Sun, 3 May 2009 23:35:28 +0200 Subject: Docs focus after F11 release In-Reply-To: References: <20090503161304.GB20292@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: I think this is also a topic for this weeks docs meeting. This is my first release with docs but it would seem normal to have a big amount of resources taken as we near release. Zach Oglesby GPG Key - 1378F79F http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Zoglesby On May 3, 2009 6:39 PM, "David Nalley" wrote: On Sun, May 3, 2009 at 12:13 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > Paul and I were talking th... I think this hit the mailing list, as I think I replied to it trying to encourage a docs FAD at SELF on June 14th. -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dtimms at iinet.net.au Mon May 4 07:36:58 2009 From: dtimms at iinet.net.au (David Timms) Date: Mon, 04 May 2009 17:36:58 +1000 Subject: Guides Page - new Digital Television guide In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <49FE9B1A.9070307@iinet.net.au> Eric Christensen wrote: > I've created a guide page[1] on the wiki that shows all the guides > that we are currently supporting. My plan is to include a list of all > the guides, a brief introduction paragraph, a sentence that tells > people how they can become involved, and where they can find the guide > (html, pdf, RPM, etc). > > Please visit the page and provide that information on your guide. > > [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_guides I made a new guide [1] about Digital Television in Fedora. Hopefully this didn't already exist, and it should get people like [2] started. However: - I need a reviewer to proofread, test the content on a machine that isn't already set up for dvb playback. - more reviewers who have different TV hardware, that can provide simple set up examples for eg USB and Firewire cards - Can we link to general external DVB information like: - firmware - driver - specific DVB hardware guides ? - some ideas on how to best handle the dividing line between Fedora included and want user feedback on stuff v "he who cannot be named" that actually allows video/audio playback in Fedora. I was thinking that I would provide a link to an external google search, that would lead the user to the application (playback) software on eg RPM Fusion, and for that RPM Fusion wiki page to say go here [1] for the basics, hardare, firmware, driver, config and testing information. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DavidTimms/DVB [2] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.redhat.fedora.general/337534 Let me know what you think either through direct editing or comments here if you like. DaveT. From noriko at redhat.com Tue May 5 01:12:05 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Tue, 05 May 2009 11:12:05 +1000 Subject: Pictures in the Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <49FB6B04.6090404@redhat.com> References: <49FB6B04.6090404@redhat.com> Message-ID: <49FF9265.6000701@redhat.com> Ruediger Landmann ????????: > David Nalley wrote: >> On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 11:21 AM, John J. McDonough >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> A lot of the >>> market is in places that don't speak English, so it would seem to be >>> very >>> valuable to have the IG in particular full of pictures in the local >>> language. >>> >>> Is this really nuts? Is there a lower priced way to approach this? >>> >>> --McD >>> >>> -- >>> fedora-docs-list mailing list >>> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >>> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >>> >>> >> >> I'd largely agree that pictures are a bad idea, for the maintenance >> issues. However Rudi has been putting in tons of work to make that >> happen with this release. I don't envy the work, but provided we >> retain Rudi or someone else willing to do the work I am ok with >> keeping it. >> > > Thanks for the kind words David :) > > I (evidently!) agree that pictures are invaluable, for all the reasons > that John has raised. I invite anyone who hasn't seen the screenshots in > the new, expanded Installation Guide to check them out. The relevant > part of the English version starts here: > http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/en-US/html/sn-welcome-x86.html The number of screenshots (how many screenshots) will help L10N team to weigh the task. The detailed steps to get there (each screen) will speed up translators to complete the task, it is usually more complicated task than general imagination. Is any virtual environment to be provided? Otherwise each translator needs to download target Fedora and perform the install process on their own machine for this purpose. noriko > > > You can find versions in other languages by going to Section 7.10 of any > of the languages linked here: > http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/ > > Note that the installation process has not yet been completely localised > in every language, and has not yet been localised at all in a few. > > The bad news is that there's no easy way to maintain these. Every time > L10N volunteers add another language, screenshots must be taken anew; > and every time an installation step changes, we need new screenshots in > 36 languages. Also, the screens contain version-specific artwork, > meaning that in a perfect world we would have to create a whole new set > with every Fedora release. I wasn't planning to do that though; and was > only planning to revise "version-obvious" screenshots like the Welcome > screen between versions. Note too that the Installation screen artwork > for F11 is not present in the PR and that we might need to talk to the > artwork team to get this moved up in the schedule in future versions. > > A few weeks ago, David and I talked about a "Quick Install Guide", which > I'm really hoping we can have ready for F12. The QIG could, of course, > use the same images as the IG. > > Comments, suggestions, and feedback are of course very welcome :) > > Cheers > Rudi > From r.landmann at redhat.com Tue May 5 23:05:33 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 09:05:33 +1000 Subject: Release-note is long and hard for translating In-Reply-To: <6d4237680905051550m48ef80eaqca317d98d077c9c1@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A00B94A.8090000@redhat.com> <4A00C1AD.1030502@redhat.com> <6d4237680905051550m48ef80eaqca317d98d077c9c1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A00C63D.9070809@redhat.com> Dimitris Glezos wrote: > 2009/5/6 Ruediger Landmann : > >> Noriko Mizumoto wrote: >> >>> During today's FLP meeting, another idea came up to address this issue >>> from l10n team side that is to break the file in small chunks. >>> Could you kindly assess the feasibility and the scope of this idea? >>> >>> >> As some of you know, Publican works with multiple small po files rather >> than the one big po file that you're seeing at the moment. In fact, to >> build the documents, the docs team has to break up the po files that >> translators are contributing so that we can feed the multiple small >> files back into Publican. >> >> On 29 April, Dimitris announced that Transifex 0.6 has support for >> multiple po files in the same component and that Fedora's Transifex >> instance will be updated to this version after Fedora 11 is out. You can >> see a screenshot of this feature on the Transifex page here: >> http://docs.transifex.org/releases/0.6.html (scroll down to "Multiple >> files per language"). >> > > Rudi, I think the translators are mostly worried that the document as > a whole is large, not that the PO files themselves are large. > Yes, I know that there's an issue there (although there are fewer new strings in the F11 Release Notes than there were in the F10 Release Notes), but the specific question here was about the possibility of working with multiple small .po files rather than one gigantic one. I can see that this question came up in the recent FLP meeting: ---- huge docs make the translation impossible for little teams. my team internally break big .pos in chunks... let's see anyway to break it into small chunks. ---- Am I right in thinking that Transifex 0.6 makes this possible? If so, translators will be able to work with Publican's multiple small .po files, and writers won't have to be merging these files together and separating them again after translation... which should be good news for everybody :) > The Q I have is: Should we continue pushing the big release notes, or > should we consider either reducing their size or producing a compact > version which will be more easy to translate and probably more > compelling to our users as well, similar to eg. GNOME release notes? > > Discussion is already underway in docs about what form the Release Notes should take for Fedora 12; you can see it on the agenda for this week's meeting here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Thursday_Apr_30_2009_.28Wed_US_Time.29 as "Docs decisions for F12". Release Notes are the #1 issue amongst these - see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_decisions_for_F12 Cheers Ruediger From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed May 6 03:35:03 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 13:35:03 +1000 Subject: Pictures in the Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <49FF9265.6000701@redhat.com> References: <49FB6B04.6090404@redhat.com> <49FF9265.6000701@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A010567.4060206@redhat.com> Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > The number of screenshots (how many screenshots) will help L10N team > to weigh the task. There are 68 screenshots in the Installation Guide > The detailed steps to get there (each screen) will speed up > translators to complete the task, it is usually more complicated task > than general imagination. > Is any virtual environment to be provided? Otherwise each translator > needs to download target Fedora and perform the install process on > their own machine for this purpose. > Actually, it's even more complicated than that. Remember that this is the *installation* process we're documenting here, so the screenshots need to be taken on a different machine (real or virtual) from the one on which you're performing the installation process. You therefore either need to install Fedora on one machine while controlling the installation process and taking screenshots with a second machine (that is, performing a VNC installation) or install Fedora on a virtual machine (I use Sun VirtualBox for this). Given the complexity of organising this, it was just easier for me to take the screenshots in each language myself. If you look at the test builds available here: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/ you will see that each language has its own set of screenshots (with the exception of a few languages where the installation process itself has not been localised yet -- for example, Latvian -- which use the English screenshots). Additionally, I'm aware that this is a very big book and a very demanding one for translators. I hope that taking care of the screenshots is at least one little thing that I can do to make their lives easier :) Cheers Ruediger From noriko at redhat.com Wed May 6 06:10:16 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 16:10:16 +1000 Subject: Pictures in the Installation Guide In-Reply-To: <4A010567.4060206@redhat.com> References: <49FB6B04.6090404@redhat.com> <49FF9265.6000701@redhat.com> <4A010567.4060206@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A0129C8.2000300@redhat.com> Ruediger Landmann ????????: > Noriko Mizumoto wrote: >> The number of screenshots (how many screenshots) will help L10N team >> to weigh the task. > There are 68 screenshots in the Installation Guide >> The detailed steps to get there (each screen) will speed up >> translators to complete the task, it is usually more complicated task >> than general imagination. >> Is any virtual environment to be provided? Otherwise each translator >> needs to download target Fedora and perform the install process on >> their own machine for this purpose. >> > > Actually, it's even more complicated than that. Remember that this is > the *installation* process we're documenting here, so the screenshots > need to be taken on a different machine (real or virtual) from the one > on which you're performing the installation process. You therefore > either need to install Fedora on one machine while controlling the > installation process and taking screenshots with a second machine (that > is, performing a VNC installation) or install Fedora on a virtual > machine (I use Sun VirtualBox for this). > > Given the complexity of organising this, it was just easier for me to > take the screenshots in each language myself. If you look at the test > builds available here: > http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/ you will see > that each language has its own set of screenshots (with the exception of > a few languages where the installation process itself has not been > localised yet -- for example, Latvian -- which use the English > screenshots). > > Additionally, I'm aware that this is a very big book and a very > demanding one for translators. I hope that taking care of the > screenshots is at least one little thing that I can do to make their > lives easier :) OH... I misunderstood that this guide is seeking some help from translators (prob because it was used to be redhat translators task for rhel install guide). Now it sounds excellent. Thanks a lot! noriko > > Cheers > Ruediger > From ankit at redhat.com Wed May 6 07:01:43 2009 From: ankit at redhat.com (Ankitkumar Rameshchandra Patel) Date: Wed, 06 May 2009 12:31:43 +0530 Subject: Release-note is long and hard for translating In-Reply-To: <36a6faa60905051559m3138ca80mcb3317daf75dc0a5@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A00B94A.8090000@redhat.com> <4A00C1AD.1030502@redhat.com> <6d4237680905051550m48ef80eaqca317d98d077c9c1@mail.gmail.com> <36a6faa60905051559m3138ca80mcb3317daf75dc0a5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A0135D7.3090708@redhat.com> Kris Thomsen wrote: > Maybe the question really is: "Who are our users?" > Which audience is Fedora targeted to? > > Beginners = short, beautiful, easy eatable (is that a word? ;) ) > Hardcore "haX0rs" = long, detailed - kind of what we do now. > > For me is Fedora for beginners - and of cause also for advanced users, > but they would be able to read a detailed _english_ releasenote. Yes. I think, English users are => both Beginners + Advanced users And Most of the non-english users are => Beginners, while very few are Advanced in my opinion So, if we could have two different sections for Advanced (with detailed information) and Beginner (with minimal end user oriented information) users in the Release notes than end users will have the alternatives to read. This will probably help the localizers too, to decide which sections to translate. > > // Kris > > 2009/5/6 Dimitris Glezos > > > 2009/5/6 Ruediger Landmann >: > > Noriko Mizumoto wrote: > >> During today's FLP meeting, another idea came up to address > this issue > >> from l10n team side that is to break the file in small chunks. > >> Could you kindly assess the feasibility and the scope of this idea? > >> > > As some of you know, Publican works with multiple small po files > rather > > than the one big po file that you're seeing at the moment. In > fact, to > > build the documents, the docs team has to break up the po files that > > translators are contributing so that we can feed the multiple small > > files back into Publican. > > > > On 29 April, Dimitris announced that Transifex 0.6 has support for > > multiple po files in the same component and that Fedora's Transifex > > instance will be updated to this version after Fedora 11 is out. > You can > > see a screenshot of this feature on the Transifex page here: > > http://docs.transifex.org/releases/0.6.html (scroll down to > "Multiple > > files per language"). > > Rudi, I think the translators are mostly worried that the document as > a whole is large, not that the PO files themselves are large. > > The Q I have is: Should we continue pushing the big release notes, or > should we consider either reducing their size or producing a compact > version which will be more easy to translate and probably more > compelling to our users as well, similar to eg. GNOME release notes? > > -d > > > -- > Dimitris Glezos > Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org , GPG: > 0xA5A04C3B > http://dimitris.glezos.com/ > > "He who gives up functionality for ease of use > loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) > -- > -- Regards, Ankit Patel http://www.indianoss.org/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Wed May 6 13:11:39 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 6 May 2009 09:11:39 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder Message-ID: REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting From r.landmann at redhat.com Sat May 9 08:33:16 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 18:33:16 +1000 Subject: Geert Warrink - congratulations and many thanks! Message-ID: <4A053FCC.4060909@redhat.com> Hi all, I just wanted to say a very big, public thank you to a member of the Localisation Project -- Geert Warrink. The Fedora 11 Installation Guide is a massive document (250 pages in its PDF version) and contains 3,700 strings for translation. Over the last three weeks, Geert has single-handedly taken the Dutch translation from around 10% complete to 100% complete! Congratulations Geert for your amazing effort! Cheers Ruediger From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Sat May 9 16:21:44 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 12:21:44 -0400 Subject: Geert Warrink - congratulations and many thanks! In-Reply-To: <4A053FCC.4060909@redhat.com> References: <4A053FCC.4060909@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 4:33 AM, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Hi all, > > I just wanted to say a very big, public thank you to a member of the > Localisation Project -- Geert Warrink. > > The Fedora 11 Installation Guide is a massive document (250 pages in its PDF > version) and contains 3,700 strings for translation. Over the last three > weeks, Geert has single-handedly taken the Dutch translation from around 10% > complete to 100% complete! > > Congratulations Geert for your amazing effort! > > > Cheers > Ruediger > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > Wow - that's awesome - thanks for all of that work Geert! From wb8rcr at arrl.net Sat May 9 23:15:30 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 19:15:30 -0400 Subject: Geert Warrink - congratulations and many thanks! References: <4A053FCC.4060909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <690AA50D98374D07908BAEEFD4FC2D52@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Nalley" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Cc: "Fedora Translation Project List" Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:21 PM Subject: Re: Geert Warrink - congratulations and many thanks! > On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 4:33 AM, Ruediger Landmann > wrote: >> Hi all, >> >> I just wanted to say a very big, public thank you to a member of the >> Localisation Project -- Geert Warrink. And in the meanwhile, Geert pushed the Release Notes to 100%, too! Wow! --McD From stickster at gmail.com Sun May 10 14:49:07 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 10:49:07 -0400 Subject: Geert Warrink - congratulations and many thanks! In-Reply-To: <690AA50D98374D07908BAEEFD4FC2D52@Aidan> References: <4A053FCC.4060909@redhat.com> <690AA50D98374D07908BAEEFD4FC2D52@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090510144907.GD3447@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, May 09, 2009 at 07:15:30PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Nalley" > > To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" > > Cc: "Fedora Translation Project List" > Sent: Saturday, May 09, 2009 12:21 PM > Subject: Re: Geert Warrink - congratulations and many thanks! > > >> On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 4:33 AM, Ruediger Landmann >> wrote: >>> Hi all, >>> >>> I just wanted to say a very big, public thank you to a member of the >>> Localisation Project -- Geert Warrink. > > And in the meanwhile, Geert pushed the Release Notes to 100%, too! > > Wow! Unbelievable! Geert, thank you so much for this work. And thank you to the many other translators who have contributed localization work to Fedora documentation, code, and websites. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sun May 10 15:09:21 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 20:39:21 +0530 Subject: Archer release notes In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A06EE21.8060009@fedoraproject.org> On 04/22/2009 06:11 AM, Tom Tromey wrote: > Is it too late to add release notes? I wanted to add a little warning > about GDB, but then when I looked I could not find any mention of GDB > in the release notes. (I expected the release notes from the Archer > project page to be automatically brought in... but I neglected to > check, sorry about that.) > Did anyone add this to the release notes? Rahul From wb8rcr at arrl.net Sun May 10 18:22:23 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sun, 10 May 2009 14:22:23 -0400 Subject: Archer release notes References: <4A06EE21.8060009@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <2E8623CB2C30480A9309963D5948CC19@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Sundaram" Sent: Sunday, May 10, 2009 11:09 AM Subject: Re: Archer release notes > Did anyone add this to the release notes? Yes --McD From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon May 11 12:54:27 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 08:54:27 -0400 Subject: [Bug 500153] New: Bad lock managment between CIFS and NFSv4 (kernel) access Message-ID: Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. Summary: Bad lock managment between CIFS and NFSv4 (kernel) access https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=500153 Summary: Bad lock managment between CIFS and NFSv4 (kernel) access Product: Fedora Hosted Projects Version: unspecified Platform: i386 OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: medium Priority: low Component: Deployment_Guide AssignedTo: mhideo at redhat.com ReportedBy: meflah_kader at emc.com QAContact: rlerch at redhat.com CC: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Classification: Fedora Target Release: --- Description of problem: client1 CIFS: lock SHARED range:16384-40959 client2 NFSV4: all lock SHARED succeed for any range and then unlock but lock EXCLUSIVE range 8192-24575 succeeds instead of failure Version-Release number of selected component (if applicable): Fedora release 9 How reproducible: I use a specific test with two clients (CIFS-NFS(via nfsv4 mount point)) Steps to Reproduce: 1. CIFS SHARED lock range:16384-40959 2. NFS (via v4 mount point): EXCLUSIVE lock range:8192-24575 3. Actual results: Second lock succeeds Expected results: Failure Additional info: 1/ The is no NFSv4 lock operation conveyed via network traces 2/ The issue doesn't exist in Redhat Enterprise Linux Server release 5.1 (Tikanga) 3/ Here is the complete trace of client test Client:1 Server:SX0305KA User:......................... UNICODE Negotiation SUCCEEDED Client:1 Share:\\SX0305KA\SVR5LOCKNO! ................ Tree connect (Tid:0x003F): SUCCESS Client:1 File:\\SX0305KA\SVR5LOCKNO\toto_25674\lockfile! openX Access_mode:RW Share:DENY_NONE SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS open SUCCESS Client:1 File:\\SX0305KA\SVR5LOCKNO\toto_25674\lockfile! lockX SHARED range:0x4000-0x9fff : SUCCESS Client:1 INFO :! Segment 7 (range:16384-40959)! is locked for Shared access Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 0-8191 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 0-8191 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 0-16383 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 0-16383 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 8192-24575 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 8192-24575 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 16384-24575 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 16384-24575 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 24576-32767 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 24576-32767 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 32768-40959 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 32768-40959 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 16384-40959 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 16384-40959 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 8192-49151 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 8192-49151 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 32768-49151 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 32768-49151 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 40960-57343 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 40960-57343 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock SHARED range: 49152-57343 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 49152-57343 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock EXCLUSIVE range: 0-8191 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 0-8191 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock EXCLUSIVE range: 0-16383 : SUCCESS Client:2 File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile! NFS lock UNLOCK range: 0-16383 : SUCCESS Client:2 ERROR:? File /tmp/KADER/nolock/toto_25674/lockfile? NFS lock EXCLUSIVE range: 8192-24575 : SUCCESS instead of "Resource temporarily unavailable" -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From eric at christensenplace.us Tue May 12 02:22:07 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 22:22:07 -0400 Subject: Release Notes RPM up for review Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 The Release Notes for F11 are in koji[1] and is ready to be evaluated. Once it has been tested a freeze break needs to be requested. [1] http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=101786 Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEUEARECAAYFAkoI3U8ACgkQfQTSQL0MFMHBoACVEIuZhzmZs6qW/b3acNPz+UA/ iwCgq8uQNQGbCCYezPdBt+rpkYL9wwE= =qFtT -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue May 12 11:12:16 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 07:12:16 -0400 Subject: Release Notes RPM up for review References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Monday, May 11, 2009 10:22 PM Subject: Release Notes RPM up for review > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > The Release Notes for F11 are in koji[1] and is ready to be evaluated. > Once it has been tested a freeze break needs to be requested. > > [1] http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=101786 > > Eric I need to go off to an exercise, so I won't be able to check until after 2 (I did, however, test an rpm built from the same source I gave to Jesse). But keep in mind there are a number of documents within the release notes rpm that appear in various places. - about-fedora appears on the system menu, and also on the Help yelp screen - the release notes appear on the Help yelp screen, and as html in /usr/share/doc/HTML/release-notes - homepage appears in /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html - readme, readme-live-image and readme-burning-isos are text files in /usr/share/doc/HTML// --McD From bugzilla at redhat.com Tue May 12 15:15:20 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:15:20 -0400 Subject: [Bug 500153] Bad lock managment between CIFS and NFSv4 (kernel) access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200905121515.n4CFFKxS015606@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=500153 Adam Pribyl changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |covex at lowlevel.cz --- Comment #1 from Adam Pribyl 2009-05-12 11:15:19 EDT --- Did you really meant to report this agains Fedora Hosted project and Deployment Guide documentation? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Tue May 12 15:33:38 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 11:33:38 -0400 Subject: Release Notes RPM up for review In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 7:12 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" >> The Release Notes for F11 are in koji[1] and is ready to be evaluated. >> Once it has been tested a freeze break needs to be requested. >> >> [1] http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=101786 >> I got it installed in a vm that was beta with yum update run. I've had some issue but I think they are the vm and mouse and not the r-n package. I did find some glaring mistakes though.... > > - about-fedora appears on the system menu, and also on the Help yelp screen true and true > > - the release notes appear on the Help yelp screen, and as html in > /usr/share/doc/HTML/release-notes I see them in Help and in /usr/share/doc/HTML/fedora-release-notes > > - homepage appears in /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html This page is WAY out of date! If this is the one that starts out 1. Welcome to Fedora! and shows "This page is available in the following languages" but only lists about 8 languages? And about 12 of the 40some release notes languages? and links to the Desktop User Guide (draft english only) but the link takes you to the Fedora 8 wiki version? And should be known as the User Guide and point to a current version. The link to Communicate should be updated to [[COmmunicate and getting help]] even though the wiki redirects for us. The other links look ok. But what is with [note] NOTE - as if an image is missing? While I have the skills to fix most of issues in the xml in homepage.git (even if I need to get push access separately) Should it be done now even though we are too late for release candidate - thought most of these changes do not get translated. or should we be frozen at the moment? Should I be opening a bug for tracking so we do not forget and for tracking? Will I have push privilege or do I need to get into yet another fas group? > > - readme, readme-live-image and readme-burning-isos are text files in > /usr/share/doc/HTML// > They are present. I have not read them closely yet. -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue May 12 17:19:33 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 13:19:33 -0400 Subject: Release Notes RPM up for review References: Message-ID: <3542BFFFF3A74022A335EEC743729DDF@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Lauber" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:33 AM Subject: Re: Release Notes RPM up for review >> - homepage appears in /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html > > This page is WAY out of date! > If this is the one that starts out 1. Welcome to Fedora! > and shows "This page is available in the following languages" but > only lists about 8 languages? Hmmmm .... not what I see. Where did you see those links? Is there some other doc that I am missing, or did we get something odd into the rpm. The page I *thought* I updated only has 2 links, one to the wiki Overview page, and a Fedora 9 link that I updated. --McD From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue May 12 17:36:51 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 13:36:51 -0400 Subject: Updated script References: Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Frields" To: "John J. McDonough" Cc: ; ; "Eric Christensen" Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 8:34 AM Subject: Re: Updated script > Hi guys, > > (1) This sort of call for review/help should be on the > fedora-docs-list where more people can help. It's open source! Point taken. I still need to get used to this. This seemed so grody I didn't think the larger goup would care, but then again, being selfish, I am always interested in learning more, and the more eyes, the more chances i have to learn! My main motivation in sharing this was so that I wasn't the only person who knew what I was up to, but there is no reason the three of you have to be the only ones. On the other hand, this could be a little misleading without some warnings. The script essentially builds the rpm, and I am the LAST person anyone should be looking to for advice on building an rpm. In addition, this is a transition time, and much of what is in there we hope not to deal with for Fedora 12. Most if this is fedora-docs-utils stuff that we hope will be Publican, and some of the Publican stuff are things we hope will be dealt with in Publican, so certainly, nobody should put too much value on this script. On the other hand, it is certainly a treasure trove of ungainly hacks. I made the rpm for RC in two steps, so in the latest version, the Publican parts are commented out. I have since pushed the I18n.xml that has the offending paragraph commented out, so I should be able to run the script from start to finish, but haven't actually done that yet. After we get the RC done, I intend to do that so that when any zero day issues are swatted, we can just run the script to make the rpm. > (2) Is help still needed? The package that went to RC has the offending paragraph commented out. We still have absolutely no clue what is going on there. We need someone a lot more knowledgable about Publican (hint, hint) to help sort it out. As I said, I pushed the version of I18n.xml that has the offending paragraph (and I mean XML paragraph here, from to , it is actually a table) commented out. Uncommenting it and generating html in any non-English language should expose the problem. Because of the need to merge the po's, it might be easier to do this from the srpm than from git. It will certainly be quicker as the po merge takes some time. > > Paul On Fri, May 8, 2009 at 11:22 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > I'm copying this to Paul because if we can get a piece of him perhaps he > can > help, and Eric so he know what's going on. > > There is a paragraph in I18n.xml that talks about hotkeys. When you build > a > non-English anything it complains it can't find (long string) in (long > string). Except that the second string has at the end, they look > identical. If I take the string from the po and paste it into the xml, > clean out the quotes, I get the same error. If I delete the section from > the xml it builds. > > Attached the same script as before but with a couple of bugs swatted. > Also, > the spec file. > > It looks like I won't be able to run this cleanly since I need the > workaround until I figure out the problem with I18n.xml, and so far that > doesn't look promising. > > The script essentially produces six tars from the git. > > The five documents produced with fedora-doc-utils are shoved into the > tarball essentially complete. For whatever reason we haven't actually put > sources in the script in the past. we "should" have the sources in the > tar, > but since we have always done the f-d-u docs building outside the rpm, I > haven't felt the need to change that for this go. Next time we will > probably convert those to Publican anyway. > > The release-notes tarball has the minimum bits needed to build the docs > with > publican. It also has the omf files. For the Publican build, build.sh > grabs the doc from git, does the merge of the po's, builds the omf files, > and shoves it all into a tarball. > > build.sh builds the other five documents with fedora-docs-utils and makes > tars with the result. > > The tar files must be named - and the top directory in > the tar must be -. Whether this is really "must be" I > can't say for sure, but it is how it is always done. > > The .spec file is what actually makes the rpm. > > The first bit in the spec is pretty much identification. > > The section under %build describes the building that happens within the > rpmbuild. When we do > > rpmbuild -ba fedora-release-notes.rpm > > This section gets run. The srpm basically includes the six tars and the > spec, the rpm includes the result of the build. > > The %install section describes where to place the various files on the > target system. the %files section seems to be more or less a check that > all > the created files that matter were actually installed and no others. > > When you install the rpm building tools, you create a directory tree on > ~/rpmbuild. All the rpm building stuff happens there. Before doing the > rpmbuild, the tars must be in ~/rpmbuild/SOURCES. The spec file ends up in > ~/rpmbuild/SPECS, the rpm in ~/rpmbuild/RPMS and the source rpm in > ~/rpmbuild/SRPM. The other subdirectories are used during the build. > > I just built fedora-release-notes-11.0.0.tar.gz separate from build.sh to > test. I don't want to hack the git copy just yet, but I want build.sh to > reflect not doing anything hokey. Until we get the I18n.xml thing resolved > the other languages won't build out of git. > > The easiest way to test these things is with a LiveUSB or a VM. You can't > really remove the release notes because a million other things update > them, > so the simplest thing to do is make a LiveUSB and keep a copy of > /LiveOS/overlay-xxxx. You can then install the new release-notes on the > LiveUSB and test them. To test another version, just copy your saved > overlay file back to /LiveOS and you have a clean install of Fedora. You > could do a similar thing with a VM, but I suspect it would be a little > slower. > > It seems to be easiest to use yum to install the release-notes: > > yum --nogpgcheck localinstall > fedora-release-notes-11.0.0-1.fc10.noarch.rpm > > I'm going to test my hacked version shortly. We still need to update the > date/version on the f-d-u docs as outlined in the comments to build.sh. I > would like to resolve the I18n issue, but if not we'll go with the hack. I > guess we have until Sunday, but I am out of town most of tomorrow and > Sunday > is Mother's Day, so probably a lot won't get done then. > > --McD > From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 12 17:48:05 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 13:48:05 -0400 Subject: Release Notes RPM up for review In-Reply-To: <3542BFFFF3A74022A335EEC743729DDF@Aidan> References: <3542BFFFF3A74022A335EEC743729DDF@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090512174805.GS15982@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 01:19:33PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Lauber" > > To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" > > Sent: Tuesday, May 12, 2009 11:33 AM > Subject: Re: Release Notes RPM up for review > > >>> - homepage appears in /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html >> >> This page is WAY out of date! >> If this is the one that starts out 1. Welcome to Fedora! >> and shows "This page is available in the following languages" but >> only lists about 8 languages? > > Hmmmm .... not what I see. Where did you see those links? Is there some > other doc that I am missing, or did we get something odd into the rpm. > The page I *thought* I updated only has 2 links, one to the wiki Overview > page, and a Fedora 9 link that I updated. I think this is coming out of the old homepage module, in en_US/homepage.xml. That page is really out of date, and not used anywhere that I know of. It originally formed a default start page for a user not on the internet, if he opened a web browser. Now you'd want to consult the Web browser maintainers to see if /usr/share/doc/HTML/index*.html is ever opened at all anymore. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Tue May 12 22:56:17 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 18:56:17 -0400 Subject: bugzilla questions aka: more docs tasks TODO for (or before) F12 cycle Message-ID: Greetings, There was some IRC discussion today about bugzilla and docs. Along with a request to put it to the list for more conversation and feedback from the "been there, done that" and "here's why" crowd. The result is and will be more tasks TODO before or during the F12 cycle. Take a look at the components that exist: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/describecomponents.cgi?product=Fedora%20Documentation Notice that Paul and Karsten get most of the assignments. That doesn't seem right with so many new leaders and authors. ITEM 1: Questions that I see: which docs are dead and need to be removed? which docs are missing and need to be added? how do we best change a component name when something has changed? [this refers to desktop-user-guide having been just user-guide for a long time now] And before sparks starts reassigning things, it would be nice if the doc owners knew it was coming. Some of the more obvious assignees might consider this a heads up :) but I do not have the power so you are safe for now. ITEM 2: The other part of this issue is that more people need to be closing bugs. Some of this is triage work - not a bug or filed in the wrong place. Some is fixing the doc at the source - usually git (or shouldn't be a filed bug) So - I would suggest that anyone who has write to a doc in git should also make sure they have the ability to close the related bug in bugzilla. Here's how: 1. get a bugzilla account if you do not have one. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/ 2. make sure the email you list in bugzilla matches the email you list in fas 3. request sponsorship to the fas group fedorabugs 4. ask stickster to approve fedorabugs and ask sparks to start assigning you bugs :) 5. starting fixing and closing bugs. You do NOT need to own the bug to close it. When it is closed the assignee and the person that opened the bug will be notified, along with anyone else on the cc list. They will have the option to reopen the bug if they have more information or do not believe it should have been closed. Do try to be polite and helpful when closing the ancient ones. It is ok to close as the doc is end of life but it is also nice to point out the link to the current version and encourage more review and reporting as needed. I seem to recall some of this info in the wiki but not really easy to find.... so fixing the docs on how to manage docs is also still a needed.... >From the peanut gallery, -Susan -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Tue May 12 23:16:23 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 19:16:23 -0400 Subject: Zikula Modules needed. Message-ID: Susan pointed out that I failed to push the list of modules for zikula to the list. Here they are Content Version 3.0.3 - source tagged in SVN here: http://code.zikula.org/content/browser/tags/version-3.0.3 CoType Version 1.0.0 - download here: http://www.elfisk.dk/index.php?module=Folder&func=view&mode=folder.view&fold erid=52 - the source is probably in SVN somewhere, but not sure where. crpTag I'd take the head: http://code.zikula.org/crptag/browser/trunk, but just in case it is non functional perhaps we could package 0.1.3 too? http://code.zikula.org/crptag/browser/tags/crpTag_0.1.3 MediaAttach SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/mediaattach/browser/trunk/MediaAttach mediashare SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/mediashare/browser/trunk menutree Version 2.0.1: http://code.zikula.org/bianor/browser/tags/menutree/2.0.1 MultiHook SVN Head: http://code.zikula.org/multihook/browser/trunk/MultiHook scribite Version 3.1: http://code.zikula.org/scribite/browser/tags/scribite/3.1 Custom Modules (no public source) ============== FASAuth FedoraDocs Static_Docs Custom Theme (no public source) From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 13 00:09:59 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 20:09:59 -0400 Subject: bugzilla questions aka: more docs tasks TODO for (or before) F12 cycle In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090513000959.GD13871@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 06:56:17PM -0400, Susan Lauber wrote: > Greetings, > > There was some IRC discussion today about bugzilla and docs. > Along with a request to put it to the list for more conversation and > feedback from the "been there, done that" and "here's why" crowd. > The result is and will be more tasks TODO before or during the F12 cycle. > > Take a look at the components that exist: > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/describecomponents.cgi?product=Fedora%20Documentation > > Notice that Paul and Karsten get most of the assignments. > That doesn't seem right with so many new leaders and authors. I whole-heartedly agree. Frankly, speaking for myself, there's no way I can give appropriate attention to these components, especially now that the Docs team has so much energy and enthusiasm going into their continued production and evolution. By which I mean, you guys are in an automobile and I'm on a skateboard, and I can only hold onto the bumper for so long! > ITEM 1: > Questions that I see: > which docs are dead and need to be removed? > which docs are missing and need to be added? > > how do we best change a component name when something has changed? > [this refers to desktop-user-guide having been just user-guide for a > long time now] > > And before sparks starts reassigning things, it would be nice if the > doc owners knew it was coming. > Some of the more obvious assignees might consider this a heads up :) > but I do not have the power so you are safe for now. Fairly warned here! :-D Hm, as far as components go, I think this is probably a matter we'd need to check with a Bugzilla administrator to be sure. A change of name might require some manual messing around with the database to ensure the old bugs are transferred in properly -- as opposed to relying on automation which might create a whole new component without our meaning to. > ITEM 2: > The other part of this issue is that more people need to be closing bugs. > Some of this is triage work - not a bug or filed in the wrong place. > Some is fixing the doc at the source - usually git (or shouldn't be a filed bug) > > So - I would suggest that anyone who has write to a doc in git should > also make sure they have the ability to close the related bug in > bugzilla. > Here's how: > 1. get a bugzilla account if you do not have one. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/ > 2. make sure the email you list in bugzilla matches the email you list in fas > 3. request sponsorship to the fas group fedorabugs > 4. ask stickster to approve fedorabugs and ask sparks to start > assigning you bugs :) > 5. starting fixing and closing bugs. And by the way, I'm not the only person who can approve fedorabugs membership. I just happen to have some very limited admin privileges, which the *real* admins trust me not to abuse. (Mwahahaha!) ;-) But the important part is, I'm happy to approve those memberships. There are no hoops to jump through, just ping me on IRC or email me to let me know you're waiting. I don't get an auto-notification for that group but am happy to help where I can. > You do NOT need to own the bug to close it. When it is closed the > assignee and the person that opened the bug will be notified, along > with anyone else on the cc list. They will have the option to reopen > the bug if they have more information or do not believe it should have > been closed. > > Do try to be polite and helpful when closing the ancient ones. It is > ok to close as the doc is end of life but it is also nice to point out > the link to the current version and encourage more review and > reporting as needed. > > I seem to recall some of this info in the wiki but not really easy to > find.... so fixing the docs on how to manage docs is also still a > needed.... I sense a wiki dump coming up... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fixing_documentation_bugs_in_Bugzilla I've started with your content from this email. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From poelstra at redhat.com Wed May 13 03:52:23 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 12 May 2009 20:52:23 -0700 Subject: Fedora 11 FAQ Message-ID: <4A0A43F7.9030107@redhat.com> I have removed the Fedora 11 FAQ from this page https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/FeatureList The page is already full and it does not belong there. I think it should go with the release notes or release summary instead of being the first thing people see on the feature list. If people really think it has to be on the feature list page please put it way at the bottom. Thanks, John From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed May 13 05:25:51 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 15:25:51 +1000 Subject: Updated script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4A0A59DF.7030304@redhat.com> John J. McDonough wrote: > The package that went to RC has the offending paragraph commented > out. We still have absolutely no clue what is going on there. We > need someone a lot more knowledgable about Publican (hint, hint) to > help sort it out. As I said, I pushed the version of I18n.xml that > has the offending paragraph (and I mean XML paragraph here, from > to , it is actually a table) commented out. > Uncommenting it and generating html in any non-English language should > expose the problem. Because of the need to merge the po's, it might > be easier to do this from the srpm than from git. It will certainly > be quicker as the po merge takes some time. > Fixed by changing the single quotation marks to double quotation marks in the and tags; but I have no idea why... From mail at royellwood.com Wed May 13 08:14:13 2009 From: mail at royellwood.com (Roy Ellwood) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:14:13 +0100 Subject: New book endorsement Message-ID: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> Hi I am new to this list I am posting because I have just finished a new book 'Build a home webserver using Fedora Core 10' It is a practical guide to doing 'what it says on the tin' - but, it is not just Fedora - it covers the hardware, broadband, IPCOP router, configuring apache, MailScanner, etc, etc. I realise that it is finished just in time for Fedora Core 11 to be released - so another version will quickly follow The book is not published yet, but I intend to use lulu.com, and using this method of publishing means that I already have a proof copy of the book, and can print more. I want Fedora to endorse the book, and the next version, and would like to add 'published with permission of the Fedora Project' etc How do I now go about this? I am happy to post a proof copy to anyone who can provide this endorsement. But to whom? and how do I obtain a name and address? I now need help to finalise the publication of this book. Can somebody on this list please help? Thanks Roy Ellwood -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From pribyl at lowlevel.cz Wed May 13 12:30:31 2009 From: pribyl at lowlevel.cz (Adam Pribyl) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 14:30:31 +0200 (CEST) Subject: New book endorsement In-Reply-To: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> References: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> Message-ID: On Wed, 13 May 2009, Roy Ellwood wrote: > Hi > > I am new to this list > > I am posting because I have just finished a new book 'Build a home webserver using Fedora Core 10' > Well there is no Fedora Core anymore.. just plain Fedora, already for 4 releases. > It is a practical guide to doing 'what it says on the tin' - but, it is not just Fedora - it covers the hardware, broadband, IPCOP router, configuring apache, MailScanner, etc, etc. > > I realise that it is finished just in time for Fedora Core 11 to be released - so another version will quickly follow > > The book is not published yet, but I intend to use lulu.com, and using this method of publishing means that I already have a proof copy of the book, and can print more. > > I want Fedora to endorse the book, and the next version, and would like to add 'published with permission of the Fedora Project' etc > > How do I now go about this? I am happy to post a proof copy to anyone who can provide this endorsement. But to whom? and how do I obtain a name and address? > > I now need help to finalise the publication of this book. Can somebody on this list please help? > > Thanks > > Roy Ellwood Adam Pribyl From simon at zikula.org Wed May 13 12:51:49 2009 From: simon at zikula.org (Simon Birtwistle) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:51:49 +0100 Subject: Zikula Modules needed. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <00c201c9d3c9$95fa35e0$c1eea1a0$@org> > Susan pointed out that I failed to push the list of modules for zikula > to the list. I can provide the source for Static_Docs, FASAuth and the theme, though until testing is nearing completion you'd probably be putting effort into a package that will change. Once the packages are created and available I'll be sorting out the puppet config and so on with the infra team. Thanks, Simon From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 13 13:14:06 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 09:14:06 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 FAQ In-Reply-To: <4A0A43F7.9030107@redhat.com> References: <4A0A43F7.9030107@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090513131406.GC3391@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 08:52:23PM -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > I have removed the Fedora 11 FAQ from this page > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/FeatureList > > The page is already full and it does not belong there. I think it should > go with the release notes or release summary instead of being the first > thing people see on the feature list. > > If people really think it has to be on the feature list page please put > it way at the bottom. Agreed. When you send someone to a page they expect the topmost information to be directly relevant to the reason you sent them there. We tend to direct people to the feature list to see the feature list itself, not general information about Fedora. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 13 14:27:59 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:27:59 -0400 Subject: Updated script In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090513142759.GK3391@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 01:36:51PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > From: "Paul Frields" >> Hi guys, >> >> (1) This sort of call for review/help should be on the >> fedora-docs-list where more people can help. It's open source! > > > Point taken. I still need to get used to this. This seemed so grody I > didn't think the larger goup would care, but then again, being selfish, I > am always interested in learning more, and the more eyes, the more chances > i have to learn! My main motivation in sharing this was so that I wasn't > the only person who knew what I was up to, but there is no reason the > three of you have to be the only ones. > > On the other hand, this could be a little misleading without some > warnings. The script essentially builds the rpm, and I am the LAST person > anyone should be looking to for advice on building an rpm. In addition, > this is a transition time, and much of what is in there we hope not to > deal with for Fedora 12. Most if this is fedora-docs-utils stuff that we > hope will be Publican, and some of the Publican stuff are things we hope > will be dealt with in Publican, so certainly, nobody should put too much > value on this script. I've been in your shoes many times, so I understand the trepidation! Just rest easily knowing that you've improved transparency, we should all try not to make perfect the enemy of the good, and so on. > On the other hand, it is certainly a treasure trove of ungainly hacks. A kindred soul! :-D > I made the rpm for RC in two steps, so in the latest version, the Publican > parts are commented out. I have since pushed the I18n.xml that has the > offending paragraph commented out, so I should be able to run the script > from start to finish, but haven't actually done that yet. After we get > the RC done, I intend to do that so that when any zero day issues are > swatted, we can just run the script to make the rpm. > >> (2) Is help still needed? > > The package that went to RC has the offending paragraph commented out. We > still have absolutely no clue what is going on there. We need someone a > lot more knowledgable about Publican (hint, hint) to help sort it out. As > I said, I pushed the version of I18n.xml that has the offending paragraph > (and I mean XML paragraph here, from to , it is actually a > table) commented out. Uncommenting it and generating html in any > non-English language should expose the problem. Because of the need to > merge the po's, it might be easier to do this from the srpm than from git. > It will certainly be quicker as the po merge takes some time. Is this the problem that Ruediger just wrestled to ground? The quotation mark issue? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed May 13 14:58:47 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 10:58:47 -0400 Subject: Updated script References: <20090513142759.GK3391@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <91ACC0ADDCEB4E59A5CF9DC580F10708@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Wednesday, May 13, 2009 10:27 AM Subject: Re: Updated script > Is this the problem that Ruediger just wrestled to ground? The > quotation mark issue? YES -- Bravo rudi I need to leave shortly, but laubersm and/or zoglesby should be able to re-build the rpm from the script with the correction if we decide we want to do that. The script needs to be corrected to get the right homepage/startpage in there, the current rpm has the old homepage. It lacks the hardlink improvement which I never had adequate time to test, and Jesse sounded a little uncomfortable with. I've attached the big script, a fragment that only builds the Publican part, and the spec file just in case I had touched something in there that I didn't update with them. Not sure that the list will take attachments so copied to Susan and Zach just in case. Also, I realized that the script file is copying in a makefile that makes more lanuages than the version in git. I THOUGHT I had updated the copy in git, but I added that makefile just in case so that the additional languages don't get forgotten. I'm away to FDIM, will be back Moday, unless I spend so much that my wife kills me (a guy can never have too many radios). --McD -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: build.sh Type: application/octet-stream Size: 6983 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: fedora-release-notes.spec Type: application/octet-stream Size: 11379 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: temp-make-pub.sh Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2663 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Makefile Type: application/octet-stream Size: 1506 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 13 21:42:30 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 14:42:30 -0700 Subject: Zeroday change to release notes for Release Candidate? Message-ID: <20090513214230.GL9506@calliope.phig.org> We are considering doing a change today that would replace a paragraph of content with a new paragraph. We need your (L10n) opinion/viewpoint. You can view the change as it was made on the wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Documentation_Multimedia_Beat&diff=101486&oldid=99705 Our plan is to replace that paragraph of text before the 'fedora-release-notes' package goes in to the Release Candidate spin. This new content is about a better way to adjust legacy ALSA mixer levels using a GUI interface. We're not sure if there will be time to translate the new paragraph. The old content is 100% correct. However, the QA/Testing Team would like to see people testing/using the alternative sound mixer GUI instead of the text UI sound mixer. For the Docs Team, the GUI alternative is a better solution for more users and we want to tell people about it. Note that the changes will be made on docs.fedoraproject.org anyway, and the release notes point to that URL for latest information. That means a break of string and translation % is *not* crucial. Thanks for your consideration, - Karsten, guy who happens to be in #fedora-docs :) -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From domingobecker at gmail.com Wed May 13 21:59:51 2009 From: domingobecker at gmail.com (Domingo Becker) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 18:59:51 -0300 Subject: Zeroday change to release notes for Release Candidate? In-Reply-To: <20090513214230.GL9506@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090513214230.GL9506@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4818cd80905131459o79515f04td4f1d75178043ef5@mail.gmail.com> 2009/5/13 Karsten Wade : > We are considering doing a change today that would replace a paragraph > of content with a new paragraph. ?We need your (L10n) > opinion/viewpoint. > > Our plan is to replace that paragraph of text before the > 'fedora-release-notes' package goes in to the Release Candidate spin. > This new content is about a better way to adjust legacy ALSA mixer > levels using a GUI interface. > Looks better to use the GUI interface for that. No problem for the Spanish team. > We're not sure if there will be time to translate the new paragraph. > The string is not too long. We will only need minutes. kind regards Domingo Becker (es) From eric at christensenplace.us Thu May 14 02:42:18 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 22:42:18 -0400 Subject: Release Announcement for F11 Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I started a page[1] for the Release Announcement. This needs to be completed no later than 22 May. I need a volunteer to draft the announcement. The sooner it gets completed the sooner we can send it to the translators. There are examples[2] from the previous announcements that can be used for inspiration. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcements#Past_Release_Announcements Thanks, Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkoLhQkACgkQfQTSQL0MFMHLzACbBx58+wK3GYGp4Q7vn+WFbo7I vXwAoITFBhYSJvMwHFnwLDTLyipfQqm3 =GVQQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 14 14:59:03 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:59:03 -0400 Subject: New book endorsement In-Reply-To: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> References: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> Message-ID: <20090514145903.GG3461@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 09:14:13AM +0100, Roy Ellwood wrote: > Hi > > I am new to this list > > I am posting because I have just finished a new book 'Build a home webserver > using Fedora Core 10' As someone pointed out elsewhere, you'll want to make sure all your text removes references to "Fedora Core" and instead uses "Fedora." Don't mean to sound like a broken record, though! Read on... > It is a practical guide to doing 'what it says on the tin' - but, it is not > just Fedora - it covers the hardware, broadband, IPCOP router, configuring > apache, MailScanner, etc, etc. > > I realise that it is finished just in time for Fedora Core 11 to be released - > so another version will quickly follow > > The book is not published yet, but I intend to use lulu.com, and using this > method of publishing means that I already have a proof copy of the book, and > can print more. > > I want Fedora to endorse the book, and the next version, and would like to add > 'published with permission of the Fedora Project' etc > > How do I now go about this? I am happy to post a proof copy to anyone who can > provide this endorsement. But to whom? and how do I obtain a name and address? > > I now need help to finalise the publication of this book. Can somebody on this > list please help? The Fedora Project doesn't endorse independent materials. But you don't need our permission to publish, as long as you are adhering to our trademark guidelines, which are shown here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines In particular, we have a section on publications, shown here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines#Publications Basically, you don't need our permission to use screenshots, or reference to our trademarks, as long as you follow those guidelines, including the section on proper trademark use. If you have any specific questions as you read those, feel free to send them to legal at fedoraproject.org. Thanks for writing, and I'm also happy to answer any other questions you send here to the list. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From steven.moix at axianet.ch Fri May 8 06:01:53 2009 From: steven.moix at axianet.ch (Steven Moix) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 08:01:53 +0200 Subject: News and media coverage plan for Fedora 11 Message-ID: <1241762533.2350.5.camel@x301.axianet.ch> Hello everyone, The release date for Fedora 11 is coming close, so it's time for some coordination between the Ambassadors and the Marketing group! In this mail, I'm going to address different points, so everyone has a clear view of what is going on and how we can effectively split up the tasks. Also any feedback is of course welcome. 1. In the next couple of days, the Documentation team is going to write an official Release Announcement for Fedora 11 in English. 2. As soon as this document exists in a final form, it is going to be translated in a couple of languages, if all goes well German, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Hindi, Italian and Arabic. This will be coordinated by the Documentation team with the aid of the Translation team. These translated versions should be available a few days before the final release. Now with that being done, we need to coordinate around everything else. Earlier this year, the Marketing group has set up a structure called the News Distribution Network (NDN) [1], which aims to distribute Fedora news to the global media. Some Ambassadors from different languages have joined this effort and will be pushing news to a list of publication [2] they maintain. Besides that, there are a number of ways in which we really need the Ambassadors help: 1. Track all the Fedora news you see on the web and add it to our press archive page [3], this will help us judge the depth of coverage so that we can focus our messaging more precisely in the future. 2. At release time, and for a couple of days after that, we need you to follow the comments on news websites. People will probably have questions there, or you will have Fedora Myths to bust [4]. As much as some of us might like to flame people, our official policy is to be as professional and possible while at the same time making our points clear and well understood. Making members of the community angry us will prove unproductive. 3. Blog! You can start right now, get vocal about Fedora! Talk about the upcoming release and what the time table is. Talk about a feature you care about. Talk about how we got to 11, but most importantly, just talk! If you feel like there is anything to add to this list, then please feel free to reply and make sure to cross post to fedora-marketing-list as well. Also, please let everyone know in what capacity you can help so that we can coordinate efforts amongst everyone. I hope that everyone has a better understanding of the process now :) 1: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_news_distribution_network 2: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_press_publications 3: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive/F11 4: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraMyths Have a nice day Steven From ogmaciel at gnome.org Sat May 9 14:26:45 2009 From: ogmaciel at gnome.org (Og Maciel) Date: Sat, 9 May 2009 10:26:45 -0400 Subject: Geert Warrink - congratulations and many thanks! In-Reply-To: <4A053FCC.4060909@redhat.com> References: <4A053FCC.4060909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <98a1f5280905090726p6bc9028eoaafb7ec5df1ab5a3@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 9, 2009 at 4:33 AM, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > The Fedora 11 Installation Guide is a massive document (250 pages in its PDF > version) and contains 3,700 strings for translation. Over the last three > weeks, Geert has single-handedly taken the Dutch translation from around 10% > complete to 100% complete! That is some serious feat indeed! Congrats Geert! Cheers, -- Og B. Maciel omaciel at foresightlinux.org ogmaciel at gnome.org ogmaciel at ubuntu.com GPG Keys: D5CFC202 http://www.ogmaciel.com (en_US) http://blog.ogmaciel.com (pt_BR) From jaa at redhat.com Fri May 8 16:24:05 2009 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 12:24:05 -0400 Subject: News and media coverage plan for Fedora 11 In-Reply-To: <1241762533.2350.5.camel@x301.axianet.ch> References: <1241762533.2350.5.camel@x301.axianet.ch> Message-ID: <4A045CA5.3000308@redhat.com> Was this posted to ambassadors-list? Steven Moix wrote: > Hello everyone, > > The release date for Fedora 11 is coming close, so it's time for some > coordination between the Ambassadors and the Marketing group! In this > mail, I'm going to address different points, so everyone has a clear > view of what is going on and how we can effectively split up the tasks. > Also any feedback is of course welcome. > > 1. In the next couple of days, the Documentation team is going to write > an official Release Announcement for Fedora 11 in English. > 2. As soon as this document exists in a final form, it is going to be > translated in a couple of languages, if all goes well German, French, > Spanish, Portuguese, Hindi, Italian and Arabic. This will be coordinated > by the Documentation team with the aid of the Translation team. These > translated versions should be available a few days before the final > release. > > Now with that being done, we need to coordinate around everything else. > > Earlier this year, the Marketing group has set up a structure called the > News Distribution Network (NDN) [1], which aims to distribute Fedora > news to the global media. Some Ambassadors from different languages have > joined this effort and will be pushing news to a list of publication [2] > they maintain. > > Besides that, there are a number of ways in which we really need the > Ambassadors help: > > 1. Track all the Fedora news you see on the web and add it to our press > archive page [3], this will help us judge the depth of coverage so that > we can focus our messaging more precisely in the future. > 2. At release time, and for a couple of days after that, we need you to > follow the comments on news websites. People will probably have > questions there, or you will have Fedora Myths to bust [4]. As much as > some of us might like to flame people, our official policy is to be as > professional and possible while at the same time making our points clear > and well understood. Making members of the community angry us will prove > unproductive. > 3. Blog! You can start right now, get vocal about Fedora! Talk about the > upcoming release and what the time table is. Talk about a feature you > care about. Talk about how we got to 11, but most importantly, just > talk! > > If you feel like there is anything to add to this list, then please feel > free to reply and make sure to cross post to fedora-marketing-list as > well. Also, please let everyone know in what capacity you can help so > that we can coordinate efforts amongst everyone. I hope that everyone > has a better understanding of the process now :) > > 1: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_news_distribution_network > 2: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing_press_publications > 3: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/PressArchive/F11 > 4: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraMyths > > Have a nice day > Steven > > From zuma at xs4all.nl Wed May 13 11:52:07 2009 From: zuma at xs4all.nl (zuma) Date: Wed, 13 May 2009 13:52:07 +0200 Subject: Geert Warrink - congratulations and many thanks! In-Reply-To: <4A053FCC.4060909@redhat.com> References: <4A053FCC.4060909@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1242215527.3031.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Waarlijk, Geert, een hele prestatie! Klasse zoals altijd :) Richard Op za, 09-05-2009 te 18:33 +1000, schreef Ruediger Landmann: > Hi all, > > I just wanted to say a very big, public thank you to a member of the > Localisation Project -- Geert Warrink. > > The Fedora 11 Installation Guide is a massive document (250 pages in its > PDF version) and contains 3,700 strings for translation. Over the last > three weeks, Geert has single-handedly taken the Dutch translation from > around 10% complete to 100% complete! > > Congratulations Geert for your amazing effort! > From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 14 14:59:03 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:59:03 -0400 Subject: New book endorsement In-Reply-To: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> References: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> Message-ID: <20090514145903.GG3461@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 09:14:13AM +0100, Roy Ellwood wrote: > Hi > > I am new to this list > > I am posting because I have just finished a new book 'Build a home webserver > using Fedora Core 10' As someone pointed out elsewhere, you'll want to make sure all your text removes references to "Fedora Core" and instead uses "Fedora." Don't mean to sound like a broken record, though! Read on... > It is a practical guide to doing 'what it says on the tin' - but, it is not > just Fedora - it covers the hardware, broadband, IPCOP router, configuring > apache, MailScanner, etc, etc. > > I realise that it is finished just in time for Fedora Core 11 to be released - > so another version will quickly follow > > The book is not published yet, but I intend to use lulu.com, and using this > method of publishing means that I already have a proof copy of the book, and > can print more. > > I want Fedora to endorse the book, and the next version, and would like to add > 'published with permission of the Fedora Project' etc > > How do I now go about this? I am happy to post a proof copy to anyone who can > provide this endorsement. But to whom? and how do I obtain a name and address? > > I now need help to finalise the publication of this book. Can somebody on this > list please help? The Fedora Project doesn't endorse independent materials. But you don't need our permission to publish, as long as you are adhering to our trademark guidelines, which are shown here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines In particular, we have a section on publications, shown here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines#Publications Basically, you don't need our permission to use screenshots, or reference to our trademarks, as long as you follow those guidelines, including the section on proper trademark use. If you have any specific questions as you read those, feel free to send them to legal at fedoraproject.org. Thanks for writing, and I'm also happy to answer any other questions you send here to the list. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Thu May 14 14:58:04 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 10:58:04 -0400 Subject: release notes update Message-ID: A number of people were watching chaos last night in #fedora-docs. It wasn't as much chaos as it appeared at times but still... I thought I would try to explain what was going on - at least for Sparks since he asked :) As I know it from last night and I am sure missing a few points.... Earlier this week jjmcd built and submitted the release candidate (rc) version of the rpm on time per the schedule. Problem: it had the wrong /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html (and translations). The correct xml content (and translations) was in git - just not getting built. A number of people (quaid, zoglesby, and mostly stickster) helped last night to fix that problem and build a new rpm and get it to f13 for last night's build and eventually the rc. fedora-release-notes.11.0.0-2.fc11 should be in koji Meanwhile there was a discussion of "as long as we are pushing a new rpm late anyways...." should we include a couple of other changes. One went in: There had been a paragraph chopped out of I18n since it would not build correctly for any language. It was weird because all test builds worked fine but when done by rpm it failed miserably. Turned out to be single quotes that needed to be double quotes and rudi had fixed it and pushed everything and so that one made it back in no problem. The other did not: There is a paragraph replacement concerning sound. There is now a gui option to replace the previously mentioned command line solution. There was great debate about a. do not include until zero day (the winner is option a) b. include in english but not translated. c. include and wait for translation (not really an option since the rpm was needed within the hour) Current status on changes to r-n: 1. rudi pulled the diff from the wiki for the sound issue and committed it to master branch. 1b. but stickster reverted to make the rpm 1c. so someone needs to revert the revert (rudi?) 2. other changes and additions from release candidate review need to be added as available - however keep in mind that tx has only a few hours to update this time around. so nit pickin changes are frowned upon. 3. The schedule [http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html] says convert all wiki changes to xml beginning on the 21st and new pot on 25th. but it also says new rpm on 25th for GA on 26th. I think the pot needs to be late on May 22 or early May 23 so the rpm can get in early on 25th for GA.... [ And those are probably UTC dates which for us US folks means the evening before....] 4. When building the final rpm - there are scripts in git [http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/release-notes.git]. In the master branch, and in the build subdir. (laubersm notes that she should add a readme to that dir) Hope that helps - or at least entertains. -Susan -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Thu May 14 16:13:44 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 12:13:44 -0400 Subject: release notes update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Susan Lauber wrote: > A number of people were watching chaos last night in #fedora-docs. ?It > wasn't as much chaos as it appeared at times but still... > I thought I would try to explain what was going on - at least for > Sparks since he asked :) > > As I know it from last night and I am sure missing a few points.... > > Earlier this week jjmcd built and submitted the release candidate (rc) > version of the rpm on time per the schedule. > Problem: ?it had the wrong /usr/share/doc/HTML/index.html (and > translations). ?The correct xml content (and translations) was in git > - just not getting built. > > A number of people (quaid, zoglesby, and mostly stickster) helped last > night to fix that problem and build a new rpm and get it to f13 for > last night's build and eventually the rc. > fedora-release-notes.11.0.0-2.fc11 ?should be in koji > > Meanwhile there was a discussion of "as long as we are pushing a new > rpm late anyways...." ?should we include a couple of other changes. > > One went in: ?There had been a paragraph chopped out of I18n since it > would not build correctly for any language. ?It was weird because all > test builds worked fine but when done by rpm it failed miserably. > Turned out to be ?single quotes that needed to be double quotes and > rudi had fixed it and pushed everything and so that one made it back > in no problem. > > The other did not: ?There is a paragraph replacement concerning sound. > ?There is now a gui option to replace the previously mentioned command > line solution. ?There was great debate about > a. do not include until zero day (the winner is option a) > b. include in english but not translated. > c. include and wait for translation (not really an option since the > rpm was needed within the hour) > > Current status on changes to r-n: > 1. rudi pulled the diff from the wiki for the sound issue and > committed it to master branch. 1b. but stickster reverted to make the > rpm 1c. so someone needs to revert the revert (rudi?) > > 2. other changes and additions from release candidate review need to > be added as available - however keep in mind that tx has only a few > hours to update this time around. > so nit pickin changes are frowned upon. > > 3. The schedule > [http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html] > says convert all wiki changes to xml beginning on the 21st and new pot > on 25th. ?but it also says new rpm on 25th for GA on 26th. > I think the pot needs to be late on May 22 or early May 23 so the rpm > can get in early on 25th for GA.... ?[ And those are probably UTC > dates which for us US folks means the evening before....] And when I finally read the last line of the schedule, the lightbulb comes on. The zero day translation are online only - not in the rpm. But I guess the english does make it into the GA rpm? I think the sound issue should get translated and into the GA rpm. How long do we wait for "anything else" to pop up before we push that new pot and just get it done? trans list has been warned the one paragraph might be coming and the general idea is that it should only take a few minutes for the one paragraph. There was a single +1 (no other comments) from that email to trans list. > > 4. When building the final rpm - there are scripts in git > [http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/release-notes.git]. ?In the > master branch, and in the build subdir. ?(laubersm notes that she > should add a readme to that dir) I added a readme.build to the directory. > > Hope that helps - or at least entertains. > -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 From eric at christensenplace.us Thu May 14 17:24:14 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 13:24:14 -0400 Subject: release notes update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:13, Susan Lauber wrote: > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Susan Lauber > wrote: >> A number of people were watching chaos last night in #fedora-docs. It >> wasn't as much chaos as it appeared at times but still... >> I thought I would try to explain what was going on - at least for >> Sparks since he asked :) And I do appreciate it as I was on a different level of chaos last night. > And when I finally read the last line of the schedule, the lightbulb comes on. > The zero day translation are online only - not in the rpm. But I > guess the english does make it into the GA rpm? > > I think the sound issue should get translated and into the GA rpm. > How long do we wait for "anything else" to pop up before we push that > new pot and just get it done? I don't think we should wait that long. If we aren't going to deal with the small stuff I think we should get the po in front of the translators as soon as possible. While the Spanish translators have said "no problem" we haven't heard anything from the other groups (not that I see this as a big deal). I would hate to think that this project will become the thorn in the sides of all the translators (any more than it already is) so I think giving more time to do the fixes would be helpful. Are there any other items that need to be repaired in the RNs? Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkoMU70ACgkQfQTSQL0MFMGXKwCfRPRcQlZvjh/ZgKlblpb348vo kf8AoMsjxTiFJwI346oYYATOHVrHGJas =JVC6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 15 03:19:37 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:19:37 -0400 Subject: release notes note Message-ID: <20090515031937.GG3401@localhost.localdomain> *** meant to send earlier today and was waylaid! *** Hi Docs guys, I tagged the master branch 'fedora-release-notes-11.0.0' at the appropriate commit. If we do another release as a zero-day update, remember that we should be updating the version to 11.0.1 to reflect a content change. (I tagged the other "extra" modules as well, like about-fedora-11.0.0 and so forth.) We located a problem which may have plagued John earlier. Let me see if I can sum it up: The fedora-doc-utils is not inserting a version number where it's needed at times. This interferes with the much easier tarball creation that the "extra" modules already had available. In F10 and before, I would just do "make release-pkg" to generate a tarball in each repo, then copy them for the SRPM. However, instead of generating for example a homepage-11.0.0.tar.gz file, right now you end up with a homepage-.tar.gz file. This seems to be caused by the XSLT stored in packagin/doc-version.xsl -- it's not pulling out the highest revision date as expected. Shouldn't be too hard to fix but we didn't have time to delve into it last night. One other issue that I would recommend the Docs team look at: * We need to branch off for F11 Any Time Now. At that point, one will need to use the f11 branch to do any further updates, like a zero-day update or any other midstream F11 package update. Depending on how fast you guys want to get started with cleaning up in advance of F12, you may want that branch sooner rather than later. The reason I bring this up is that after release, it's good to take a short breather, but it's also easy to let the breather become a vacation. (I speak from deep personal experience!) Then before you know it, it's F12 release time and nothing's fixed. In the first weeks after release it's going to be hard for me to do much technical work, but after June things get better for a little while at least. I will be happy to help out wherever I can, but I think it's up to the Docs team to come up with a compelling plan for how we want to approach F12, before we get more than a couple weeks into the F12 schedule. This list is an opportune venue to work out the details, so that people will see what's being planned, have a chance to participate, and get excited. You guys have done a heck of a job getting so much learned, so quickly, and contributed a lot to Fedora 11. Every single release was a learning experience for me working on Docs, and it really made me happy to see how far I'd come since the last release. I hope you guys feel the same and are excited about F12 challenges. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org Fri May 15 03:28:02 2009 From: abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org (Basil Mohamed Gohar) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:28:02 +0800 Subject: Leaving docs project Message-ID: <4A0CE142.8070507@hidayahonline.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hey everyone! I realize this isn't much more than a drop in the bucket, given that I haven't actually contributed anything to the project at all. However, I am formally leaving the Docs project as I feel there's little point in being in the group and not actually doing anything. I've actually harbored some degree of guilt as I've been in the group all this time and yet never actually contributed anything of substance. The greater purpose of my leaving the group is simply one of several steps I'm trying to take to simplify my life and keep my mind unfilled with unfinished projects. I tend to acquire projects & things to do at a greater rate than I can dispose of them, and this has wreaked havoc with my mind and its ability to focus. I will probably stay subscribed to the list, at least for a while, and this in no way affects my love of Fedora Project itself. I just feel I have to reorganize what I have going on so I can restore myself to productivity. I will remain an active promoter of Fedora & free software in general to my various circles, so rest assured that I don't plan on going anywhere. Thanks for everything! - -- Basil Mohamed Gohar abu_hurayrah at hidayahonline.org http://www.basilgohar.com/blog basilgohar on irc.freenode.net GPG Key Fingerprint: 5AF4B362 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkoM4ToACgkQaVgOCFr0s2JP4wCdHOZjBXGx0anAzs3cxGs41Fmq 8p0AoKJ3tGcso3n5KOn+nEbNQccJXTvQ =Bet0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 15 03:55:34 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 14 May 2009 23:55:34 -0400 Subject: Leaving docs project In-Reply-To: <4A0CE142.8070507@hidayahonline.org> References: <4A0CE142.8070507@hidayahonline.org> Message-ID: <20090515034818.GL3401@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 11:28:02AM +0800, Basil Mohamed Gohar wrote: > Hey everyone! > > I realize this isn't much more than a drop in the bucket, given that I > haven't actually contributed anything to the project at all. However, I > am formally leaving the Docs project as I feel there's little point in > being in the group and not actually doing anything. I've actually > harbored some degree of guilt as I've been in the group all this time > and yet never actually contributed anything of substance. > > The greater purpose of my leaving the group is simply one of several > steps I'm trying to take to simplify my life and keep my mind unfilled > with unfinished projects. I tend to acquire projects & things to do at > a greater rate than I can dispose of them, and this has wreaked havoc > with my mind and its ability to focus. > > I will probably stay subscribed to the list, at least for a while, and > this in no way affects my love of Fedora Project itself. I just feel I > have to reorganize what I have going on so I can restore myself to > productivity. > > I will remain an active promoter of Fedora & free software in general to > my various circles, so rest assured that I don't plan on going anywhere. > > Thanks for everything! You're welcome back any time. Feel free to just lurk -- we have many people doing that as is, and there's no harm in doing so. If you ever want to contribute, you know where to find us! :-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri May 15 05:40:19 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 11:10:19 +0530 Subject: New book endorsement In-Reply-To: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> References: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> Message-ID: <4A0D0043.3070105@fedoraproject.org> On 05/13/2009 01:44 PM, Roy Ellwood wrote: > How do I now go about this? I am happy to post a proof copy to anyone > who can provide this endorsement. But to whom? and how do I obtain a > name and address? If you have a online copy, I could take a look. Can't be endorsing it but could perhaps suggest a few improvements. Rahul From mail at royellwood.com Fri May 15 09:26:17 2009 From: mail at royellwood.com (Roy Ellwood) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 10:26:17 +0100 Subject: New book endorsement References: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> <4A0D0043.3070105@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <0bbd01c9d53f$338c2bd0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> Thanks Rahul But, I have now had a reply from Paul Frields that gives me the information I needed Thanks anyway Roy Ellwood ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Sundaram" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 6:40 AM Subject: Re: New book endorsement > On 05/13/2009 01:44 PM, Roy Ellwood wrote: > > > How do I now go about this? I am happy to post a proof copy to anyone > > who can provide this endorsement. But to whom? and how do I obtain a > > name and address? > > If you have a online copy, I could take a look. Can't be endorsing it > but could perhaps suggest a few improvements. > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From eric at christensenplace.us Fri May 15 17:54:11 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 13:54:11 -0400 Subject: Leaving docs project In-Reply-To: <20090515034818.GL3401@localhost.localdomain> References: <4A0CE142.8070507@hidayahonline.org> <20090515034818.GL3401@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 23:55, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, May 15, 2009 at 11:28:02AM +0800, Basil Mohamed Gohar wrote: >> Hey everyone! >> >> I realize this isn't much more than a drop in the bucket, given that I >> haven't actually contributed anything to the project at all. However, I >> am formally leaving the Docs project as I feel there's little point in >> being in the group and not actually doing anything. I've actually >> harbored some degree of guilt as I've been in the group all this time >> and yet never actually contributed anything of substance. >> >> The greater purpose of my leaving the group is simply one of several >> steps I'm trying to take to simplify my life and keep my mind unfilled >> with unfinished projects. I tend to acquire projects & things to do at >> a greater rate than I can dispose of them, and this has wreaked havoc >> with my mind and its ability to focus. >> >> I will probably stay subscribed to the list, at least for a while, and >> this in no way affects my love of Fedora Project itself. I just feel I >> have to reorganize what I have going on so I can restore myself to >> productivity. >> >> I will remain an active promoter of Fedora & free software in general to >> my various circles, so rest assured that I don't plan on going anywhere. >> >> Thanks for everything! > > You're welcome back any time. Feel free to just lurk -- we have many > people doing that as is, and there's no harm in doing so. If you ever > want to contribute, you know where to find us! :-) > > -- > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug I'd like to echo Paul's remarks. I understand how interests and time constraints can make you have to reconsider your priorities. Please feel free to join us again! Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkoNrEMACgkQfQTSQL0MFMGK1ACeJyMn3M6kbz9dEXNQ2Z7Sqdc2 wjUAni6Ge/w42pQbVJwDuhNpqc9q5jdx =kusU -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Fri May 15 20:23:16 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 15 May 2009 16:23:16 -0400 Subject: release notes update In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090515202316.GA3432@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 01:24:14PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 12:13, Susan Lauber wrote: > > On Thu, May 14, 2009 at 10:58 AM, Susan Lauber > > wrote: > >> A number of people were watching chaos last night in #fedora-docs. It > >> wasn't as much chaos as it appeared at times but still... > >> I thought I would try to explain what was going on - at least for > >> Sparks since he asked :) > > And I do appreciate it as I was on a different level of chaos last night. Susan, you are AWESOME with a capital AWESOME. > > And when I finally read the last line of the schedule, the lightbulb comes on. > > The zero day translation are online only - not in the rpm. But I > > guess the english does make it into the GA rpm? > > > > I think the sound issue should get translated and into the GA rpm. > > How long do we wait for "anything else" to pop up before we push that > > new pot and just get it done? > > I don't think we should wait that long. If we aren't going to deal > with the small stuff I think we should get the po in front of the > translators as soon as possible. While the Spanish translators have > said "no problem" we haven't heard anything from the other groups (not > that I see this as a big deal). I would hate to think that this > project will become the thorn in the sides of all the translators (any > more than it already is) so I think giving more time to do the fixes > would be helpful. > > Are there any other items that need to be repaired in the RNs? Sorry if I'm coming in late -- emerging from a battle of the deadlines. :-) Now that f-r-n-11.0.0-2 is off to print, we should put any changes out in the POT/PO for shipping to translators. That way we can maximize the time they have to translate for both the web publication, and a zero-day update of the RPM package. Is there a hole in this plan? If not, who's going to make those changes? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From r.landmann at redhat.com Sun May 17 23:54:59 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:54:59 +1000 Subject: release notes update In-Reply-To: <20090515202316.GA3432@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090515202316.GA3432@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A10A3D3.6030307@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Now that f-r-n-11.0.0-2 is off to print, we should put any changes out > in the POT/PO for shipping to translators. That way we can maximize > the time they have to translate for both the web publication, and a > zero-day update of the RPM package. > > Is there a hole in this plan? If not, who's going to make those changes? > > I'm happy to push the changes if nobody spots a hole in the plan in the next 24 hours... (since I've already got local copies here) Apart from the troublesome table in i18n and the Volume Control change, are there any other changes anyone knows about? Cheers Rudi From wb8rcr at arrl.net Mon May 18 00:15:30 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 20:15:30 -0400 Subject: release notes update References: <20090515202316.GA3432@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <79DBCD904C85423DB08F4E21C34D452E@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 4:23 PM Subject: Re: release notes update > > Susan, you are AWESOME with a capital AWESOME. > And let me second that, with a double underline. Just got back from Dayton, not even completely unpacked, but it is good to see the Docs Team stood up, as I knew they would. And seeing Susan's leadership in this is superb, but to me, not really a surprise. --McD From laubersm at fedoraproject.org Mon May 18 02:11:49 2009 From: laubersm at fedoraproject.org (Susan Lauber) Date: Sun, 17 May 2009 22:11:49 -0400 Subject: release notes update In-Reply-To: <4A10A3D3.6030307@redhat.com> References: <20090515202316.GA3432@localhost.localdomain> <4A10A3D3.6030307@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 7:54 PM, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >> Now that f-r-n-11.0.0-2 is off to print, we should put any changes out >> in the POT/PO for shipping to translators. ?That way we can maximize >> the time they have to translate for both the web publication, and a >> zero-day update of the RPM package. >> >> Is there a hole in this plan? ?If not, who's going to make those changes? >> >> > > I'm happy to push the changes if nobody spots a hole in the plan in the next > 24 hours... (since I've already got local copies here) Thanks Rudi!!! > > Apart from the troublesome table in i18n and the Volume Control change, are > there any other changes anyone knows about? I did a quick scan of my starred emails... 1. Something about archer https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Archer#Release_Notes but John replied he has added that one. 2. Something about moin that should have made it well before the last cutoff but no one answered the email so it may be worth checking... https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-April/msg00123.html 3. Is there anything on presto? - which has gone back and forth on availability but I think ended up included. I'll be honest, I have not looked. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Presto#Release_Notes -Susan -- Susan Lauber, (RHCX, RHCA, RHCSS) Lauber System Solutions, Inc. http://www.laubersolutions.com gpg: 15AC F794 A3D9 64D1 D9CE 4C26 EFC3 11C2 BFA1 0974 From vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi Mon May 18 08:10:04 2009 From: vpivaini at cs.helsinki.fi (Ville-Pekka Vainio) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 11:10:04 +0300 Subject: release notes update In-Reply-To: References: <20090515202316.GA3432@localhost.localdomain> <4A10A3D3.6030307@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1242634204.2403.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> su, 2009-05-17 kello 22:11 -0400, Susan Lauber kirjoitti: > 2. Something about moin that should have made it well before the last > cutoff but no one answered the email so it may be worth checking... > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-April/msg00123.html I haven't been following the Release Notes process closely, so I'm not sure whether what's on the wiki matches what is or will be in the release-notes rpm, but someone has added the moin bit here: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/WebServers - thanks. There is a small typo in there, though. '/user/share/doc/moin-1.8.2/*' should be '/usr/share/doc/moin-1.8.2/*', but I don't consider that to be serious, since I think server admins will most likely know what was meant and where the files really are. -- Ville-Pekka Vainio From eric at christensenplace.us Mon May 18 12:36:22 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 08:36:22 -0400 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Forwarding along to the Docs Team... Eric - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Domingo Becker Date: Mon, May 18, 2009 at 08:21 Subject: release notes for F11 To: Fedora Translation Project List It's hard to find where to read more about how to configure fingerprint readers mentioned in "5.2.1. Fingerprint Readers" of Fedora 11 Release Notes. Unlike other new sections, it has no links at all. Is it possible to add it some links for further reading ? thanks kind regards Domingo Becker - -- Fedora-trans-list mailing list Fedora-trans-list at redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkoRVkUACgkQfQTSQL0MFMF/IACfXeywNE8S9NjXYRXhi098X17D v0YAn25zwrXw5ULuOVuSrHl8/lISJYtv =VC4l -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 18 13:06:30 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:06:30 -0400 Subject: release notes update In-Reply-To: References: <20090515202316.GA3432@localhost.localdomain> <4A10A3D3.6030307@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090518130630.GC3634@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 10:11:49PM -0400, Susan Lauber wrote: > I did a quick scan of my starred emails... > 1. Something about archer > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Archer#Release_Notes but John > replied he has added that one. > 2. Something about moin that should have made it well before the last > cutoff but no one answered the email so it may be worth checking... > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-April/msg00123.html > 3. Is there anything on presto? - which has gone back and forth on > availability but I think ended up included. I'll be honest, I have not > looked. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Presto#Release_Notes The DeltaRPMs will be available, but users do indeed need to install yum-presto. That's what the Presto feature release note says. I don't see this in our Release Notes anywhere, but if we're making other changes, this will be a biggie. I'd suggest that it go in the Overview section, and if more detail is desired, a link to the feature page. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 18 13:26:10 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:26:10 -0400 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 08:36:22AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > Forwarding along to the Docs Team... > > Eric > > - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Domingo Becker > Date: Mon, May 18, 2009 at 08:21 > Subject: release notes for F11 > To: Fedora Translation Project List > > > It's hard to find where to read more about how to configure > fingerprint readers mentioned in "5.2.1. Fingerprint Readers" of > Fedora 11 Release Notes. > Unlike other new sections, it has no links at all. > Is it possible to add it some links for further reading ? My suggestion would be a wiki page [[Configuring_a_fingerprint_reader]], and simply include a link to that page in the release notes as a separate . There may already be a short one-sentence already elsewhere in the release notes saying "For more information, refer to:". If so, one could use that as well, making the added string create zero extra work for translators. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Mon May 18 13:40:03 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:40:03 -0400 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 09:26, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 08:36:22AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> Forwarding along to the Docs Team... >> >> Eric >> >> - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >> From: Domingo Becker >> Date: Mon, May 18, 2009 at 08:21 >> Subject: release notes for F11 >> To: Fedora Translation Project List >> >> >> It's hard to find where to read more about how to configure >> fingerprint readers mentioned in "5.2.1. Fingerprint Readers" of >> Fedora 11 Release Notes. >> Unlike other new sections, it has no links at all. >> Is it possible to add it some links for further reading ? > > My suggestion would be a wiki page > [[Configuring_a_fingerprint_reader]], and simply include a link to > that page in the release notes as a separate . There may > already be a short one-sentence already elsewhere in the > release notes saying "For more information, refer to:". If so, one > could use that as well, making the added string create zero extra work > for translators. > > -- > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug We should pass this on to whoever is documenting the fingerprint packages so they know to populate this page. I think putting a link to the wiki in the release notes is a good idea. Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkoRZTIACgkQfQTSQL0MFME80QCeLoL9hTmCiRONhrpj2BRWCJQv PtgAn17qOwDsuVPUtJyiGCCjftjT/PhN =tFpn -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From domingobecker at gmail.com Mon May 18 13:44:24 2009 From: domingobecker at gmail.com (Domingo Becker) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:44:24 -0300 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4818cd80905180644m5aa5ec77p7572c483d5c8985f@mail.gmail.com> 2009/5/18 Paul W. Frields : > > My suggestion would be a wiki page > [[Configuring_a_fingerprint_reader]], and simply include a link to > that page in the release notes as a separate . ?There may > already be a short one-sentence already elsewhere in the > release notes saying "For more information, refer to:". ?If so, one > could use that as well, making the added string create zero extra work > for translators. > +1 From stickster at gmail.com Mon May 18 13:59:24 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 09:59:24 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: FedoraProject page Documentation Multimedia Beat has been changed by Adamwill] Message-ID: <20090518135924.GG3634@localhost.localdomain> ----- Forwarded message from WikiAdmin ----- [...snip...] The FedoraProject page Documentation Multimedia Beat has been changed on 13:42, 15 May 2009 by Adamwill, see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Multimedia_Beat for the current version. See https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=Documentation_Multimedia_Beat&diff=0&oldid=101486 for all changes since your last visit. Editor's summary: damn, it's in System / Preferences, not Sound & Video [...snip...] ----- End forwarded message ----- Might want to change this before the new push as well. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From r.landmann at redhat.com Mon May 18 23:41:36 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 09:41:36 +1000 Subject: Meeting tonight In-Reply-To: <3FAFBDDB9FBB415A8DF32FC6CDB51F85@Aidan> References: <20090422233620.GX6404@localhost.localdomain><418C5211CF0F408B911EA530FB7F3AEA@Aidan> <20090423120602.GG6404@localhost.localdomain> <3FAFBDDB9FBB415A8DF32FC6CDB51F85@Aidan> Message-ID: <4A11F230.3070307@redhat.com> John J. McDonough wrote: > I didn't convert the 5 "minor" docs to Publican. We should go ahead > and do that since they now look a little like orphans. I've already done these; but because they will need attention from translators, I haven't checked them in (waiting for Transifex 0.6) From r.landmann at redhat.com Tue May 19 01:06:33 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:06:33 +1000 Subject: release notes update In-Reply-To: References: <20090515202316.GA3432@localhost.localdomain> <4A10A3D3.6030307@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A120619.3090506@redhat.com> OK - I just pushed the following changes (and incremented the version number to 1.4): * Fixed the table problem in i18n * Updated the Volume Control information (including the correct GNOME menu entry -- thanks, Paul!) * Added a note about Archer (including the warning that Tom Tromey requested) This actually hadn't been included... * Added a note about moin * Added a note about Presto * Added a link to a wiki page about configuring fingerprint readers (Thanks Domingo) Thanks, Susan for your excellent roadmap of what was missed first time around, and a BIG thanks in advance to the translators for your willingness to get a 0-day update ready! Cheers Ruediger From r.landmann at redhat.com Tue May 19 05:14:53 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 15:14:53 +1000 Subject: release notes update In-Reply-To: <4A120619.3090506@redhat.com> References: <20090515202316.GA3432@localhost.localdomain> <4A10A3D3.6030307@redhat.com> <4A120619.3090506@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A12404D.1060708@redhat.com> I just discovered that the merged version of the .pot files that I checked in earlier today (po/release-notes.pot) was broken. I've fixed it and checked it in again, but it means that Transifex is showing some very strange statistics at the moment. This should be fixed the next time Transifex refreshes (in a few hours). Sorry! Ruediger From frankly3d at gmail.com Tue May 19 09:24:19 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy (Frankly3d)) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 10:24:19 +0100 Subject: Fedora_11_Alpha_release_notes xorg.conf : Can more details be added here for Final release Message-ID: <4A127AC3.5040901@gmail.com> If this is done somewhere on site, my apologies. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_Alpha_release_notes Option "DontZap" "false" to the ServerFlags section in xorg.conf. Can a: How to create xorg.conf be included somewhere on wiki (quick search revealed nothing) How to create said "Serverflags section" (example would be perfect) So mailing list(s) Q's?, can be pointed in right direction. Frank (not a cli expert, nor indeed a wiki expert) -- msn: frankly3d skype: frankly3d Mailing-List Reply to: Mailing-List Still Learning, Unicode where possible From frankly3d at gmail.com Tue May 19 10:38:37 2009 From: frankly3d at gmail.com (Frank Murphy (Frankly3d)) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 11:38:37 +0100 Subject: New book endorsement In-Reply-To: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> References: <007401c9d3a2$cd7688b0$0201a8c0@roysmainbox> Message-ID: <4A128C2D.6060100@gmail.com> Roy Ellwood wrote: > Hi > > I am new to this list > > I am posting because I have just finished a new book 'Build a home > webserver using Fedora Core 10' > > the info is freely available: http://www.howtoforge.com/perfect-server-fedora-10 Frank -- msn: frankly3d skype: frankly3d Mailing-List Reply to: Mailing-List Still Learning, Unicode where possible From r.landmann at redhat.com Tue May 19 22:23:48 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 08:23:48 +1000 Subject: users-guide In-Reply-To: References: <4818cd80905151455k67f31372hc31db55b254e4955@mail.gmail.com> <4A10983F.90200@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A133174.1040702@redhat.com> daniel cabrera wrote: > > Now, there are a few lines that we can't translate because we don't > see the strings in the .pot file. Nothing really serious, but we > thought that you should know this. Those lines are: > Thanks very much for this Daniel; Geert reported a similar problem with the POT file for the Installation Guide. This seems to have been an unfortunate side effect of merging the separate Publican POT files. Since it's only a few strings, I propose that we leave this alone until Transifex 0.6 becomes available and allows translators to access the original Publican POT files. (I've confirmed that the strings are present in the original POT files, but for some reason were not included by the msgcat process...) Is this OK with everyone? Cheers Ruediger From eric at christensenplace.us Wed May 20 01:44:47 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:44:47 -0400 Subject: F11 Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <4A131B62.6030803@redhat.com> References: <4A131B62.6030803@redhat.com> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 No one has touched the wiki page and we need to get this done. I had writers block over the weekend so no real output from my fingers. I'd like to have something to go over in tomorrow's Docs meeting. If anyone would like to try their hand at it... Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkoTYI4ACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFQ/gCg0BYr59RYl6m1xGWvArY6JzE1 2fMAniiERq74trgXDRnnZFdNwm5DY+1H =LITf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 16:49, Jack Aboutboul wrote: > Any updates on this? > > Jack > > Eric Christensen wrote: >> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >> Hash: SHA1 >> >> I have started a wiki page[1] for the F11 Release Announcement. ?The >> Docs Project has started putting together some ideas but I'd like to >> open up the opportunity for writing the announcement to the marketing >> team as well. ?If you are interested in helping out, please surf on >> over to the wiki and put your ideas down. ?I'd like to have this done >> by Wednesday, May 20th. >> >> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 >> >> >> Thanks, >> Eric >> >> Docs Project >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) >> Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) >> >> iEYEARECAAYFAkoNmFgACgkQfQTSQL0MFMGdiACgn0wAaJ4wjkuFiFXQNBVVi1Ll >> kboAniOdjFSFAQCwaFrKhpPBvZu8EoBA >> =gNx9 >> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >> >> > > From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Wed May 20 14:28:47 2009 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 07:28:47 -0700 Subject: Late addition to Rel Notes - libguestfs Message-ID: <1242829727.5401.68.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> Hello folks, I realize it is late in the game, but I've just made the following addition to the release notes that I really hope we can squeeze in to the XML version whether it can make it to translators or not. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Virtualization_Beat#Offline_Manipulation_of_Virtual_Machines libguestfs is a tool that was born very recently, but has already greatly matured. It is included in F11, and is very worthy of mention in the release notes. It would have been a great candidate for a feature page had it come on that scene as the Features were being decided upon. Refs: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue174#New_Release_libguestfs_1.0.15 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue173#New_Release_libguestfs_1.0.10 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FWN/Issue171#Guest_Configuration_with_augeas_and_libguestfs -- Dale From eric at christensenplace.us Wed May 20 14:38:55 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:38:55 -0400 Subject: Meeting today Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Just wanted to remind everyone that we will have a Docs Project meeting today at 0001 UTC in #fedora-meeting. Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkoUFf8ACgkQfQTSQL0MFMG19gCfZXwxBzg3nL52NznuInhEz3of GFMAnRImSnBB3XKl3heNq15hpsPbquHj =elVC -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:50:52 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:50:52 -0400 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090520145052.GI3512@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 09:40:03AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 09:26, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, May 18, 2009 at 08:36:22AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> Forwarding along to the Docs Team... > >> > >> Eric > >> > >> - ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > >> From: Domingo Becker > >> Date: Mon, May 18, 2009 at 08:21 > >> Subject: release notes for F11 > >> To: Fedora Translation Project List > >> > >> > >> It's hard to find where to read more about how to configure > >> fingerprint readers mentioned in "5.2.1. Fingerprint Readers" of > >> Fedora 11 Release Notes. > >> Unlike other new sections, it has no links at all. > >> Is it possible to add it some links for further reading ? > > > > My suggestion would be a wiki page > > [[Configuring_a_fingerprint_reader]], and simply include a link to > > that page in the release notes as a separate . There may > > already be a short one-sentence already elsewhere in the > > release notes saying "For more information, refer to:". If so, one > > could use that as well, making the added string create zero extra work > > for translators. > > We should pass this on to whoever is documenting the fingerprint > packages so they know to populate this page. I think putting a link > to the wiki in the release notes is a good idea. Who is documenting them? And have you or someone else on the Docs team passed this on as you suggested? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Wed May 20 16:17:25 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 21:47:25 +0530 Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <146c63b10904211319h5f919b8vcf2c70ea9938f8dc@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10903210504q1bb67763jc4ec0db41bd053ad@mail.gmail.com> <91B4D2D4-702C-49EA-9278-720EB5B44724@gmail.com> <146c63b10903220720j7cddc9b5hcba8c71f83b7925d@mail.gmail.com> <20090324195934.GF16319@calliope.phig.org> <146c63b10903241344ybcd625crb8cb189da55dc3b1@mail.gmail.com> <20090325230109.GK16319@calliope.phig.org> <20090326144236.GC10723@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904211319h5f919b8vcf2c70ea9938f8dc@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> Hello, I have narrowed down to the following set of tags as the minimum that Docbook editor will need to support for the initial stages of the project. It would be great if the list could review them once and suggest any additions/deletions. tags: Top Level:
Section:
Block Tags: Inline: Regards, Satya From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 20 16:56:22 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 12:56:22 -0400 Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> References: <91B4D2D4-702C-49EA-9278-720EB5B44724@gmail.com> <146c63b10903220720j7cddc9b5hcba8c71f83b7925d@mail.gmail.com> <20090324195934.GF16319@calliope.phig.org> <146c63b10903241344ybcd625crb8cb189da55dc3b1@mail.gmail.com> <20090325230109.GK16319@calliope.phig.org> <20090326144236.GC10723@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904211319h5f919b8vcf2c70ea9938f8dc@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090520165622.GN3512@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 09:47:25PM +0530, satya komaragiri wrote: > Hello, > > I have narrowed down to the following set of tags as the minimum that > Docbook editor will need to support for the initial stages of the > project. It would be great if the list could review them once and > suggest any additions/deletions. [...snip...] > Are you planning on implementing support for the @class attribute? I use that a lot, and it appears in Fedora Doc Also, I think we tend to use and its indexing-specific children too. But if those significantly increase the difficulty, they could be pushed off. These are just suggestions and not requirements. :-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From h.daniel.cabrera at gmail.com Wed May 20 19:05:27 2009 From: h.daniel.cabrera at gmail.com (daniel cabrera) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:05:27 -0300 Subject: Self Introduction Message-ID: Greetings Fedorians. My name is H?ctor Daniel Cabrera. I'm from South America, Argentina, Buenos Aires. Nowadays I?m working in a foundation, doing several research projects related to the history and geography of our country. I'm also a happy fedora user for about two years now, and one of the active translators of the Spanish team. The main reason why I want to join the Documentation Project is that I've enjoyed so much translating both Installation and User Guide, that I realize how comfortable am I trying to explain to other people what's fedora about. So, if you need any help, it will be nice if you can count me in. See you around, Daniel -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Logan irc: _logan_ on freenode -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From bcotton+fedora at gmail.com Wed May 20 20:47:00 2009 From: bcotton+fedora at gmail.com (Ben Cotton) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 16:47:00 -0400 Subject: Self-introduction: Ben Cotton Message-ID: <87f35b5e0905201347l118bc6d5l883e80944a7e0f5@mail.gmail.com> Greetings Fedora-docs-listers, It recently occurred to me that it is time I gave something back to the community. I started using Red Hat 8 in college, and eventually switched to using Linux on my primary desktop. I now make a living as a sysadmin for RHEL desktops and servers in a small department of a large Midwestern university. Since I don't have much skill as a programmer, I decided that the Docs group was a good place to start. I don't have any formal project experience, but I do fancy myself a passable writer. Among the accomplishments I'm most proud of during my tenure as a sysadmin is the creation of an internal wiki for my department's IT staff. When I took the position, the documentation was whatever could be found in old e-mail messages. Largely on my own effort, but with considerable help from the rest of the staff, our wiki is now a valuable resource. The contents range from detailed how-to guides to big-picture discussions of the system architecture. My degree is in meteorology, so I do not have a great deal of formal training with computers. Most of my knowledge comes from breaking my computer and then getting it working again. I do have certifications on Linux (RHCT) and OS X (ACSP), and I try to get training when the opportunity and budget align. My primary technical skills are in basic setup and administration: kickstarts, package management, NFS, CUPS, etc. What I lack in technical skills, though, I make up for in the ability to find contributors. I tend to bring in people outside my department to help on specific tasks when their skills better match the needs. Here's my GPG key: [1018 bcotton at boone ~ ]$ gpg --fingerprint AB46AA74 pub 1024D/AB46AA74 2009-02-14 Key fingerprint = B09D 841C 1347 091A 3BD0 759F D9CD 1319 AB46 AA74 uid Ben Cotton sub 2048g/4BB9F3C7 2009-02-14 I think that covers all I need to share. I look forward to working with all of you and contributing to the project. BC -- Ben Cotton From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed May 20 22:10:49 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:10:49 +1000 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: <20090520145052.GI3512@localhost.localdomain> References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> <20090520145052.GI3512@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A147FE9.4000202@redhat.com> Paul W. Frields wrote: > Who is documenting them? And have you or someone else on the Docs > team passed this on as you suggested? > > I put a basic page there cribbed from the Features page, so that there would be something for the Release Notes to link to... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Configuring_a_fingerprint_reader From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 20 23:19:33 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 19:19:33 -0400 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: <4A147FE9.4000202@redhat.com> References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> <20090520145052.GI3512@localhost.localdomain> <4A147FE9.4000202@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090520231933.GD6309@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 08:10:49AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Paul W. Frields wrote: >> Who is documenting them? And have you or someone else on the Docs >> team passed this on as you suggested? >> >> > I put a basic page there cribbed from the Features page, so that there > would be something for the Release Notes to link to... > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Configuring_a_fingerprint_reader I have updated screenshots -- which have changed from the ones in that page -- that I made earlier for a tour: http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/temp/fprint/ Would someone like to take the very easy task of substituting them and uploading them on the wiki? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 20 23:24:19 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 19:24:19 -0400 Subject: Meeting today In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20090520232419.GE6309@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:38:55AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > Just wanted to remind everyone that we will have a Docs Project > meeting today at 0001 UTC in #fedora-meeting. Eric, I was looking on the wiki to find the minutes from the last meeting, and didn't see them there. But that page was deprecated: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingMinutes Is there a newer page where I can find the IRC log and minutes? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Wed May 20 23:34:12 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 19:34:12 -0400 Subject: Meeting today In-Reply-To: <20090520232419.GE6309@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090520232419.GE6309@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 19:24, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:38:55AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: >> Just wanted to remind everyone that we will have a Docs Project >> meeting today at 0001 UTC in #fedora-meeting. > > Eric, > > I was looking on the wiki to find the minutes from the last meeting, > and didn't see them there. But that page was deprecated: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingMinutes > > Is there a newer page where I can find the IRC log and minutes? Yes... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project_meetings Of course I just realized that it hasn't been updated in a while. I'll jump on that now. > > -- > Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkoUk3MACgkQfQTSQL0MFMG4mACfTMCP/G3qfw6X0vRMbgiaMg0/ 0CMAnRd/kLKWuPVyJx+4fCTGV6eW7Fsn =teGI -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Wed May 20 23:37:57 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 19:37:57 -0400 Subject: FDSCo Meeting 2009-04-30 IRC log Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 [29 Apr 20:00] + [29 Apr 20:00] --- Sparks (n=sparks at fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting [29 Apr 20:00] +Roll Call! [29 Apr 20:00] + [29 Apr 20:00] * Sparks is here [29 Apr 20:00] + [29 Apr 20:00] * jjmcd est ici [29 Apr 20:00] - [29 Apr 20:00] * rudi is here [29 Apr 20:01] + [29 Apr 20:01] * Sparks waits a few more minutes before getting everything kicked off [29 Apr 20:02] + [29 Apr 20:02] * jjmcd sees ke4qqq, quaid, radsy but they must be sleeping [29 Apr 20:02] + [29 Apr 20:02] * radsy is here [29 Apr 20:04] +Isn't ke4qqq first up? [29 Apr 20:04] +jjmcd: Yes [29 Apr 20:04] +fwiw i'm mostly in lurk mode, in the middle of a few things [29 Apr 20:05] +Well, while we wait... [29 Apr 20:06] +I sent out a couple of messages earlier today. I'm trying to organize the guides and such so if you are the lead of a guide please take a look at those messages and help me out, please. [29 Apr 20:07] --- Sparks (n=sparks at fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - Go over task table [29 Apr 20:08] +The task table is located under the meeting agenda. [29 Apr 20:08] +It needs to be updated. [29 Apr 20:08] + [29 Apr 20:08] * ke4qqq is late sorry [29 Apr 20:09] +So please take a peek at it and see if you can either 1) update it or 2) join up to help it along. [29 Apr 20:09] +Sparks, since my F12 questions overlap the Publican topic, I will make a page outlining the steps and decisions we need to make (after pot is out of course) [29 Apr 20:09] +jjmcd: Cool [29 Apr 20:09] +And that's all I have to say about the task table this week. [29 Apr 20:10] --- Sparks (n=sparks at fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - Shameless plug for SouthEast LinuxFest +ke4qqq: Take it away. [29 Apr 20:10] +so firest the southeast linuxfest is June 13 [29 Apr 20:10] +s/firest/first/ [29 Apr 20:10] +second - is there any interest in having a Docs FAD on the 12th or 14th? [29 Apr 20:11] +I wouldn't mind that [29 Apr 20:11] +I know a lot of the docs contributors are in the southeast [29 Apr 20:11] +stickster is already confirmed to be there. [29 Apr 20:11] + [29 Apr 20:11] * jjmcd has to be here on the 13th [29 Apr 20:11] +So I'd like to propose that we spend some time hacking on our infrastructure - perhaps getting some packagers minted as well. [29 Apr 20:12] +ke4qqq: I'm PLANNING on being there... [29 Apr 20:12] +That would be a good move. we need packagers [29 Apr 20:12] +and I'd like a yes/no on the entire thing maybe within a week or so. [29 Apr 20:12] +jjmcd: you could participate remotely [29 Apr 20:12] +ohhh yeah sparks is going to be there [29 Apr 20:12] +Prolly Friday. [29 Apr 20:12] +ke4qqq: Well... I stress the planning part... [29 Apr 20:12] + [29 Apr 20:12] * ke4qqq concludes his shameless plug - I'll send an email to the list. [29 Apr 20:12] ++1 [29 Apr 20:12] +Boston remote didn't work so hot [29 Apr 20:13] +jjmcd: Yeah, but that was yankee land... we're down south. [29 Apr 20:13] +Coulda done better on cw [29 Apr 20:13] +Boston is a lot busier too [29 Apr 20:13] +as well as the phones worked [29 Apr 20:13] +yeah, the confusion was a lot of it [29 Apr 20:15] +yep [29 Apr 20:15] +ke4qqq: Anything else? [29 Apr 20:15] +nothing on this subject [29 Apr 20:15] +Okay... [29 Apr 20:16] --- Sparks (n=sparks at fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - Review [http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html schedule] [29 Apr 20:16] +I am here sorry for being late [29 Apr 20:16] +Looks like a few things happened here recently. [29 Apr 20:17] +Well, 34 in progress, 36 is Friday's task [29 Apr 20:17] +jjmcd: You going to be able to build the RN RPM by Friday week? [29 Apr 20:18] +I see no reason why not [29 Apr 20:18] +We have work today and tomorrow [29 Apr 20:18] +then we wait a while for the translators [29 Apr 20:18] +Cool. I see that the translations are going well. [29 Apr 20:18] +then we repeat last weeks steps [29 Apr 20:18] +Would be good tho if I had a shadow [29 Apr 20:19] +Right now I think I'm the only one who knows what is actually going on there [29 Apr 20:19] +jjmcd: Pick your victim [29 Apr 20:20] +Dunno, Zach, how busy are you next week aroung task 37 time [29 Apr 20:20] +ohhh bad, gotta be friday [29 Apr 20:20] +I'm in Lansing Saturday, Alma Sunday [29 Apr 20:21] +zoglesby, are you busy Friday? [29 Apr 20:21] +no [29 Apr 20:21] +would you like to learn how f-r-n.rpm goes together? [29 Apr 20:21] +sure [29 Apr 20:21] +good deal, lets do that then [29 Apr 20:22] +that's Friday the 8th [29 Apr 20:22] +ok, let me know what time is good for you [29 Apr 20:22] +K, I'm an early riser so prolly noon-ish your time, maybe a little earlier [29 Apr 20:23] +thats great about when I get up [29 Apr 20:23] +;-)) [29 Apr 20:23] +(I am on nights now) [29 Apr 20:25] + [29 Apr 20:25] * quaid arrives tardy [29 Apr 20:25] +So are all the guide pots done? [29 Apr 20:26] +? [29 Apr 20:26] +task 32 [29 Apr 20:26] +IG pot is done [29 Apr 20:26] +SG pot is done [29 Apr 20:27] +believe UG pot is done [29 Apr 20:27] +cool [29 Apr 20:27] +obviously the RN pot is done [29 Apr 20:27] +what others are out there? [29 Apr 20:27] -UG pot is done [29 Apr 20:27] +SELinux [29 Apr 20:27] +I gather that "0 day" means final RN tweaks en-US only until docs.fp.org updated in June? [29 Apr 20:28] +I guess [29 Apr 20:28] -IG pot still reflects a draft version (Task 24), with a couple of small changes still to go for PR (will be done in the next couple of hours...) [29 Apr 20:29] +rudi: I have a conflict on the guide table for the UG... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides [29 Apr 20:29] +Is the UG completely in XML now? [29 Apr 20:29] +the selinux confined services guide won't be ready for a while still, and it looks like it's about to have another section added, so... [29 Apr 20:30] -Sparks: UG completely in XML and building fine [29 Apr 20:30] +rudi: Okay. [29 Apr 20:30] +radsy: Understood. Anything I can help with? [29 Apr 20:31] +should be fine, Sparks - it's taking shape, just doubtful for f11 [29 Apr 20:31] +Sparks: rudi is a machine and moved UG to XML in what seemed like a week. [29 Apr 20:31] +radsy: Okay. Is it going to be release specific or more like the SG? [29 Apr 20:31] +radsy: chance it could branch off minus the confined services content and be something available?? [29 Apr 20:31] +good but not yet perfect? [29 Apr 20:32] *** You connected [29 Apr 20:32] +not release specific [29 Apr 20:32] +radsy: Okay. Whenever it's done let's get it up on docs.fp.o. [29 Apr 20:32] +ke4qqq, the selinux user guide already exists, this is more aimed at a smaller audience [29 Apr 20:33] +radsy: Hmmm.... So there are two "SELinux" guides? [29 Apr 20:33] +radsy: the last selinux UG I saw was for around fc5 - have I missed an intervening one? [29 Apr 20:34] +http://docs.fedoraproject.org/selinux-user-guide/ for f10, mdious wrote it [29 Apr 20:34] +wow - how did I miss that. [29 Apr 20:34] +yep Sparks, http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/ is what I'm working on [29 Apr 20:34] * stickster here late too as promised [29 Apr 20:34] +radsy: Okay, the one mdious was working on is the one I knew about. [29 Apr 20:35] +radsy: is that one translated and ready to go or??? [29 Apr 20:35] +not sure what the story is with the user-guide, i haven't touched it since mdious left [29 Apr 20:36] +radsy: is it in fedorahosted? [29 Apr 20:36] +still working on the confined-services guide [29 Apr 20:36] +https://fedorahosted.org/managing-confined-services/ [29 Apr 20:36] +Okay. [29 Apr 20:37] +Anything else for the schedule? [29 Apr 20:37] +? [29 Apr 20:37] +well i've dragged this off-topic [29 Apr 20:37] +radsy: Not really. [29 Apr 20:37] +Any other questions about the release schedule? [29 Apr 20:37] +have we unknowingly dropped the SELinux guide? [29 Apr 20:38] +and if we have, what are we doing now? does ECS have an internal owner for the document or do we need to assume that ownership or?? [29 Apr 20:38] +ke4qqq: Well... mdious didn't give me much view of the project [29 Apr 20:38] +ke4qqq: We need to figure out where the source is and see where the document is. [29 Apr 20:39] +it's on fedorahosted [29 Apr 20:39] +https://fedorahosted.org/selinuxguide [29 Apr 20:39] +okay [29 Apr 20:39] +and shows commits as recently as feb [29 Apr 20:40] +Let's look at that after the meeting and see what we can do. [29 Apr 20:40] +k [29 Apr 20:40] +Anything else? [29 Apr 20:40] --- Sparks (n=sparks at fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes +jjmcd: Where are you? [29 Apr 20:41] +Obviously, RN's went into 11Pr. [29 Apr 20:41] +Went through mails, about to add those to wiki, then scrape wiki for xml changes [29 Apr 20:41] +then build the pot for Fri [29 Apr 20:41] +Not a lot of changes so I don't anticipate much prob [29 Apr 20:42] +Trying to get philip_ equipped to help as a way to break into the process [29 Apr 20:42] +Cool [29 Apr 20:42] +laubersm also indicated she might help some but I don't think we have that much to do [29 Apr 20:43] +Okay... anything else? [29 Apr 20:43] +i don't understand RN or 11Pr or why 'scrape wiki' [29 Apr 20:43] +RN = release notes, 11Pr -= Fedora 11 release notes [29 Apr 20:43] +aaaah [29 Apr 20:43] +11pr = fedora 11 preview [29 Apr 20:43] +philip_: you will get the hang of it after a while [29 Apr 20:44] +just went out this week with 99% of release notes there [29 Apr 20:44] Did announcements go out to developers and greater community to tell them about wiki freezing? [29 Apr 20:44] +Does anyone know why yelp seems so much faster on F11 [29 Apr 20:44] It's just mo' betta [29 Apr 20:44] +stickster: I don't know [29 Apr 20:44] +jjmcd: because it goes up to 11 [29 Apr 20:45] +which is one more than 10 [29 Apr 20:45] +:) [29 Apr 20:45] +It's faster on a VM on 11 than native on 10 [29 Apr 20:45] Sparks: It would be a good idea to make a note that someone needs to be responsible for those reminders. [29 Apr 20:45] +stickster: yes [29 Apr 20:45] +we seem to be really lacking the reminder department overall [29 Apr 20:45] +very little wiki activity lately to freeze [29 Apr 20:46] +more concerned about L10n [29 Apr 20:46] jjmcd: That could be due to the lack of reminders... [29 Apr 20:46] +good point [29 Apr 20:46] +zoglesby: Yes... I take responsibility for that as I've been lacking here lately. [29 Apr 20:46] How much time is left before freezing the wiki and port to XML? [29 Apr 20:46] +XML port has to happen tomorrow [29 Apr 20:47] Sparks: OK, let's stand back for a second. [29 Apr 20:47] Oops, not just Sparks, sorry [29 Apr 20:47] We know that's not enough time to give people a heads-up about freezes. [29 Apr 20:47] Yet it's about what we did before the freeze for Preview, right? [29 Apr 20:47] So let's figure out what would help us *not* do that in the future. [29 Apr 20:48] +a calendar [29 Apr 20:48] +with email reminders [29 Apr 20:48] Is someone reading the release schedule tasks? [29 Apr 20:48] +Well, more than that [29 Apr 20:48] the ones that Poelstra creates, I mean [29 Apr 20:48] +yes - they are our calendar effectively [29 Apr 20:48] +One of us needs reminders on our calendar to post warning about events on poelstra's calendar [29 Apr 20:49] jjmcd: You're about 80% of the way there [29 Apr 20:49] + and we really need to prolly add freeze notifications to poelstras schedule [29 Apr 20:49] What we really need is to have this *task* captured in that schedule [29 Apr 20:49] ke4qqq: DISCO! [29 Apr 20:49] +good point [29 Apr 20:49] +jjmcd: Google calendar? [29 Apr 20:49] +Sparks: we can't use Google Calendar [29 Apr 20:49] +I have a NASA calendar marked up on my wall [29 Apr 20:49] +ke4qqq: no? [29 Apr 20:50] So, I would humbly submit to you that the docs lead should get with poelcat and figure out how to add these public-notification tasks to that schedule [29 Apr 20:50] +Sparks: we only use F/LOSS to create Fedora [29 Apr 20:50] +ke4qqq: So is jjmcd 's NASA calendar open? [29 Apr 20:50] +it's not software [29 Apr 20:50] +lol [29 Apr 20:50] +ke4qqq: It's a process [29 Apr 20:50] +And it doesn't have the notifications on it [29 Apr 20:50] +Ahhhh, *BUT* [29 Apr 20:50] +Sparks: it's just caused flames before - just trying to warn you - though I use Google Calendar personally [29 Apr 20:51] +We don't have a solution in place that helps us with this. [29 Apr 20:51] +We need to get the appropriate events onto the appropriate person's PDA [29 Apr 20:51] +what is this calendar for and what does it need to do? [29 Apr 20:51] +ke4qqq: This isn't to put the word out to the masses... it is being used to help organize already open data. [29 Apr 20:51] Sparks: Waiting for the solution is not as big a problem as making sure the right tasks are on the schedule to begin with. Let's solve first things, first. [29 Apr 20:51] +who wants a piece of me? ;-) [29 Apr 20:51] +I will take up the reminders [29 Apr 20:51] +I just need to figure out who and when [29 Apr 20:51] +speak of the devil [29 Apr 20:51] haha [29 Apr 20:51] +the who is worse than the when [29 Apr 20:51] poelcat: We were just discussing that there are tasks missing on the Docs schedule -- not that they were omitted by anyone, they've just not been captured correctly to start with [29 Apr 20:52] poelcat: in particular, a task to notify the community about wiki freezes well in advance [29 Apr 20:52] or I should say, a task per freeze [29 Apr 20:53] +where is this calendar? [29 Apr 20:53] +send me email with: 1) name of task (should contain verbs); 2) how many days it takes (or not); 3) what it depends on or when it should start [29 Apr 20:53] +philip_, poelstra.fedorapeople.org [29 Apr 20:53] +i'll add it to the source file and then it will magically be reported [29 Apr 20:54] +http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html [29 Apr 20:54] + [29 Apr 20:54] * jjmcd has it up an a different screen so couldn't cut and paste [29 Apr 20:55] +Should someone (possibly docs) be responsible for warning of all freezes? This isn't unique to Docs [29 Apr 20:56] jjmcd: It's usually easier for each team to report freezes since changes happen sometimes on a per-team basis, and coordination would be tough [29 Apr 20:56] But... [29 Apr 20:56] There's no doubt that Zikula will help with this -- aiui there's a pretty rad calendar module [29 Apr 20:56] +stickster: I thought we weren't going to use the calendar in Zikula [29 Apr 20:56] +every other group 'warns' re freezes [29 Apr 20:56] +sometimes with not much notice [29 Apr 20:57] Sparks: OK, s/Zikula/$FEDORA_WIDE_CALENDAR/ [29 Apr 20:57] +Isn't there also a shared evolution calendar or some such. [29 Apr 20:57] +Sparks: there is a group in infra evaluating calendars right now [29 Apr 20:57] +Oh, cool [29 Apr 20:57] doesn't matter what the implementation, as long as it's being done openly somewhere [29 Apr 20:57] ke4qqq: Thank you sir! (what he said.) [29 Apr 20:57] +exactly [29 Apr 20:57] +and if infra is working on it thats one less task for us [29 Apr 20:57] +very true [29 Apr 20:58] +Do we know what the status is on that? [29 Apr 20:58] +They have narrowed it down significantly [29 Apr 20:59] +Do you know if they have looked at Zikula? [29 Apr 20:59] Sparks: An email to the appropriate list would be a good way to poke people [29 Apr 20:59] +dropping stuff that won't work or is Java etc. [29 Apr 20:59] +they did [29 Apr 20:59] IRC doesn't get seen by anyone not online. [29 Apr 21:00] I was under the impression that Zikula was a possibility, but I don't know that anyone has said, " will be the calendar, and it will be set up by ." [29 Apr 21:00] +no one has narrowed it down that far [29 Apr 21:00] Anyway, I think we're spending a lot of Docs time on calendars instead of docs at this point. [29 Apr 21:01] +Well... the calendar will be a docs tool. [29 Apr 21:01] Before we got on this topic, jjmcd was talking about release notes status [29 Apr 21:01] +how about for now we say personal calendars along with whats avaliable will be used and its on us to remeber to do this [29 Apr 21:02] + [29 Apr 21:02] * Sparks should have put the freezes on his calendar a while back [29 Apr 21:02] + [29 Apr 21:02] * jjmcd had then on his calendar, but has been in his own little hidey-hole [29 Apr 21:03] Right zoglesby, people are welcome to use their own tools personally, and for anything team-related we should use the available Fedora capabilities [29 Apr 21:03] +jjmcd: Anything else on the RN? [29 Apr 21:03] +I think that's about it, other than the F12 topoc [29 Apr 21:04] +jjmcd: Wanna talk about that now? [29 Apr 21:04] +May as well [29 Apr 21:04] --- Sparks (n=sparks at fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - Docs_decisions_for_F12 [29 Apr 21:04] +During F11, a number of questions came up [29 Apr 21:04] +mostly aroung publican [29 Apr 21:04] +We made some short term decisions to push through the F11 notes [29 Apr 21:05] +but between now and F12, we ought to consider the right answers [29 Apr 21:05] +I've listed some of them at Docs_decisions_for_F12 [29 Apr 21:05] +Over the next few weeks I'd like to see us talk about them [29 Apr 21:06] +are we moving everything to publican? [29 Apr 21:06] +FOr F11 we used Publican for the release notes proper, but hammered it into looking the same as F10 [29 Apr 21:06] +So homework for next week's meeting is to review the page and come back with input or questions. [29 Apr 21:06] +ANd bleed on the page [29 Apr 21:06] +maybe add more [29 Apr 21:07] +zoglesby, that is one of the questions [29 Apr 21:07] + [29 Apr 21:07] * zoglesby needs to read that page... [29 Apr 21:09] +Not sure we need to say much more right now [29 Apr 21:09] +Okay... [29 Apr 21:10] --- Sparks (n=sparks at fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - DocsProject wiki pages changes [29 Apr 21:10] +Just wanted to touch on this real quick. [29 Apr 21:10] +I worked on the Docs Project page earlier today. [29 Apr 21:11] +I tried to clean up the language and will continue to work on it this week to try to simplify what we are trying to say. [29 Apr 21:12] +There is still some work to do. [29 Apr 21:12] +Any questions or comments? [29 Apr 21:12] +Due to the hour... [29 Apr 21:12] --- Sparks (n=sparks at fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - All other business [29 Apr 21:12] +Anyone have anything else? [29 Apr 21:13] +i have a few things but they can probably be discussed in the main channel [29 Apr 21:13] +you guys going to be around for a bit? [29 Apr 21:13] +radsy: I will be [29 Apr 21:13] +wanted to clear up this selinux thing [29 Apr 21:14] +Anything else? [29 Apr 21:14] +i'm good [29 Apr 21:15] +5 [29 Apr 21:15] +4 [29 Apr 21:15] +3 [29 Apr 21:15] +2 [29 Apr 21:15] +1 [29 Apr 21:15] +Thanks everyone for coming! [29 Apr 21:15] + -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkoUlFQACgkQfQTSQL0MFMF/wgCgmA/naUqXDg1Vmuop78QoIHl9 XsEAnizmlUb4eaS5hO0q87097DEt/6hA =k5wQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 20 23:41:32 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 19:41:32 -0400 Subject: Meeting today In-Reply-To: References: <20090520232419.GE6309@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090520234132.GJ6309@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 07:34:12PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 19:24, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:38:55AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> Just wanted to remind everyone that we will have a Docs Project > >> meeting today at 0001 UTC in #fedora-meeting. > > > > Eric, > > > > I was looking on the wiki to find the minutes from the last meeting, > > and didn't see them there. But that page was deprecated: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/MeetingMinutes > > > > Is there a newer page where I can find the IRC log and minutes? > > Yes... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project_meetings > > Of course I just realized that it hasn't been updated in a while. > I'll jump on that now. Oh, great! If I'd spent more time searching I probably would have found this. Looks like there's been some cleanup going on...! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Thu May 21 01:25:55 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 21:25:55 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting Log 2009-05-20 Message-ID: Summary to follow shortly Prettified wiki: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Meeting:Docs_IRC_log_20090520 Raw text below: 20:00 < Sparks> 20:00 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 20:00 < Sparks> Roll call... 20:00 * Sparks is here 20:00 * ke4qqq is here 20:01 * sk0rd is here 20:01 * jjmcd is somewhere 20:02 * rudi is here 20:02 * laubersm is here 20:03 * Sparks gives a few more minutes for everyone to show up 20:03 * laubersm goes to get a drink - brb 20:03 < ianweller> if you need me, ping me, i'll be distracted mostly 20:03 < Sparks> ianweller: We need you 20:03 < ianweller> *thud* 20:05 < Sparks> Okay... let's get started. 20:05 < laubersm> mmmm 20:05 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Can you handle the log for tonight? 20:05 < ke4qqq> sure 20:05 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Thanks 20:05 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Release Announcement 20:06 < Sparks> Okay... This has been moved up to high priority. 20:06 * ianweller removes that pot from the back burner 20:06 < Sparks> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 20:06 < Sparks> I had writer's block over the weekend and I won't be around this weekend. 20:07 < Sparks> Since the release has been pushed back by a week we have a little breathing room... 20:07 < SgtDitt> here 20:07 < Sparks> however we need to get this done ASAP so the translators can get on it. 20:07 < Sparks> Who can write up a draft that we can look at? 20:08 < Sparks> Don't everyone volunteer at once, now... I'd hate to crash the IRC network 20:09 < Sparks> ianweller: Do you have some time to write an opening paragraph for the announcement? 20:09 < rudi> Sparks - I can do it, but it will be a few days before I get to it. 20:09 < ianweller> Sparks: "We're awesome." 20:09 < rudi> (over the weekend0 20:09 < ianweller> Sparks: but in all seriousness i could come up withs omething and get it to the list tonight 20:09 < Sparks> rudi: Okay. The schedule says that we were supposed to begin this today and have it done by Friday... that was before the push 20:10 < Sparks> ianweller: put it on the wiki... that way it's already there 20:10 < ianweller> well, yeah. ping the list that i actually did it too 20:10 < Sparks> yeah 20:10 < ianweller> that was what i meant to say :P 20:10 < Sparks> :) 20:10 < Sparks> Cool 20:10 < Sparks> ianweller: rudi: thanks! 20:11 < sk0rd> I'll shoot for a draft on the page as well 20:11 < ianweller> so the rel announcement is gonna be i18n'd? 20:11 < Sparks> How is this presented to the "customers"? 20:11 < Sparks> ianweller: Supposedly 20:11 < Sparks> ianweller: which is confusing me because I'm not sure how it's being propagated 20:12 < ianweller> Sparks: mailing list usually 20:12 < Sparks> Maybe we can get that answer when stickster_afk shows up. 20:12 < Sparks> ianweller: Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Maybe I misread the schedule 20:13 < laubersm> I think we are reposonsible for an English annoucement for emails. But a lot of locations like to translate and tweak it for their regions 20:13 < laubersm> I do not think it has ever been a tranfix thing 20:13 < Sparks> I'm good with that. 20:13 < laubersm> but that may of changed... 20:13 < jjmcd> The instructions say to keep that in mind 20:13 < ianweller> yeah so write it as if it were to be translated 20:13 < Sparks> So should they be put somewhere and "translated" into XML? 20:14 < jjmcd> Some translated literally, other parts may be radically revised in translation 20:14 < jjmcd> I don't think so. Sounds like most will be rewritten for the target geography 20:14 < laubersm> Sparks, I do think we have in the past but we'll have to check with our elders (quaid, stickster_afk ) 20:14 < laubersm> opp 20:14 < laubersm> do NOT think we have 20:15 < Sparks> laubersm: Yeah, where are those old people? 20:16 < Sparks> Okay... looks like we have this moving 20:16 < Sparks> I appreciate it. 20:16 < laubersm> "Turn up the volume (if you can), select a mode for video - the Lion roars as Fedora 11 arrives" 20:16 < laubersm> too snarky ? 20:16 < Sparks> Nope 20:16 < Sparks> :) 20:17 < Sparks> Okay, we'll talk about this more after the meeting... 20:17 < Sparks> any questions? 20:17 * jjmcd will be sure to be around to make jabs at ianweller 20:17 < Sparks> jjmcd: Much appreciated 20:17 < Sparks> Okay... moving on... 20:17 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd 20:17 < Sparks> How are them there Release Notes coming? 20:18 * jjmcd hasn't caught up on all the cool stuff laubersm, rudi, zoglesby, etc. did while he was playing at Dayton 20:18 < laubersm> jjmcd, yeah about that.... 20:18 < Sparks> jjmcd: Oh there were many things that happened while you were away 20:19 < laubersm> I think rudi was on top of adding the last minutes items and getting a new pot 20:19 < rudi> Yep all done. 20:19 < laubersm> I assume everything else just goes on the wiki 20:19 < jjmcd> We do a 0-day RPM 20:20 < rudi> There were a couple of bugs filed overnight about Section IDs and re-adding the Common Bugs section from F10 20:20 < jjmcd> Yeah, I saw that 20:20 < rudi> I've confirmed that we could do this with practically no impact to L10N 20:20 < laubersm> jjmcd, from what is being translated now? or are we pushing one more pot too? 20:20 < Sparks> I've noted a few messages on the list talking about updates 20:20 < jjmcd> If nobody else is making a bunch of changes I can go ahead and add the id's 20:21 < jjmcd> We are scheduled to push a pot immediately after release 20:21 < jjmcd> seemd weird but 20:21 < laubersm> jjmcd, I think that one is to then update docs.fp.o 20:21 < rudi> jjmcd I've got them done and ready to push... 20:21 < jjmcd> yes, i think that is correct 20:21 < laubersm> no more rpms after GA - though we could push one through updates if we wanted 20:21 < jjmcd> cool 20:22 * quaid is able to be here now for a short bit 20:22 < rudi> There was also a request to add a note about libguestfs, but I think this is way too late now, yes? 20:22 * jjmcd is doing some reports for MSP, not going well, Eric's writer's block is catching 20:23 < laubersm> if anything else comes in before we build the ga rpm - then it sounds like we can add a link to the wiki info without bothering the translators 20:23 < laubersm> is that true? 20:23 < quaid> translators? for release announcement? 20:23 * quaid is confused now 20:23 < jjmcd> We did get a week push back 20:23 < laubersm> then it is "in" the rpm for those looking there to know there is more info "somewhere" 20:24 < jjmcd> quaid: previous topic 20:24 < sk0rd> can someone speak more to the push back? docs is my only insight as to what's going on 20:24 < quaid> jjmcd: we need to revisit when we get a chance, there is a misconception underway 20:24 < ke4qqq> sk0rd: we'll talk in #f-d 20:24 < quaid> sk0rd: release engineering in yesterday's meetings declared a week slip in the schedule 20:24 < Sparks> quaid: I must have misread the schedule. There isn't anything about translating the annoucement on there now 20:25 < quaid> Sparks: can I speak on that now? or wait until a topic change soonest? 20:25 < Sparks> quaid: Go for it 20:25 < quaid> ok, I've tried to make this clear on some wiki page that I can't find right now :) 20:25 < quaid> there are two deliverables -- 20:25 < jjmcd> /Releases/Announcements 20:26 < quaid> 1. A set of clear top-five talking points for _others_ to use when constructing their own, native language, locale-specific (humor, no humor, etc.) release announcement 20:26 < quaid> 2. A whimsical, English-only release announcement that i) uses those same talking points (functionally similar to locally written announcements), but ii) is not for l10n itself because of idiomatic/culture specific content 20:27 < quaid> it is the latter that is the main need from Docs 20:27 < quaid> the former is more handled by Marketing, but $someone needs to tell f-amb-l and f-trans-l 20:27 < quaid> that the points are ready for them to use for their own locale-specific write-up. 20:27 < quaid> 20:28 < jjmcd> OK, that was mostly my understanding except it wasn't clear that Marketing was handling the former, Docs the latter, nor was the top-five clear 20:29 < jjmcd> Releases/Announcements makes it sound like some undefined body 20:29 < quaid> well, to be honest, I'm not clear if Marketing has that former task on their schedule 20:29 < laubersm> that is even easier than what I said - I thought 1 came more from 2 ... but that it was still just a write up (no xml or tx from docs). 20:29 < quaid> I sort-of dropped that ball this release, since I've been the main driver on that for the last several 20:29 < quaid> laubersm: it's also honestly fun -- you should do it! 20:29 < laubersm> "Turn up the volume (if you can), select a mode for video - the Lion roars as Fedora 11 arrives" 20:29 < laubersm> that was my attempt :) 20:30 < quaid> heh 20:30 < laubersm> seems a bit snarky even for the english version 20:30 < laubersm> :) 20:30 < jjmcd> laubersm, seems to me Fedora's image is a little "corporate", snarky might be good 20:30 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcement_template 20:31 < quaid> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_announcements 20:31 < quaid> there we go! 20:31 < sk0rd> the l10n reference is a bit obscure. With the art team working on grecian references, why not duplicate the theme 20:31 < quaid> that has a link to all previous whimsical announcements 20:31 * laubersm notes it is only in a Marketing Category - no wonder we we didn't have it here in docs... 20:31 < quaid> there is no pattern on theme duplication or ref. to release name, although that is a popular theme. 20:32 * laubersm logs into wiki... 20:32 < quaid> um, [[Release_announcements]] is in [[Category:Docs Project]] 20:33 < laubersm> the template is not 20:33 < laubersm> or WAS not 20:33 < laubersm> :) 20:33 * laubersm also moved the [[Category: to the bottom where it belongs 20:33 < Sparks> laubersm: ianweller will thank you 20:34 < laubersm> :) 20:34 < jjmcd> hmmmm, reading the F10 announcement, I hope there was an en-GB version 20:35 < Sparks> ? 20:35 < jjmcd> might work for nl, or even en-AU, but not the straight laced Brits 20:35 * ianweller thanks laubersm 20:35 < Sparks> laubersm: See, I told you 20:37 < quaid> one other point, not sure if it is on that page ... 20:37 < quaid> but the whimsical announcement must be approved by the sitting FPL, in this case, stickster_afk 20:37 < quaid> just give him ~24 hours heads up 20:37 < jjmcd> most of us would value his counsel anyway 20:38 < Sparks> most of us wonder why he bails on us these days 20:38 < jjmcd> Probably he has more to do than just chill on IRC, just guessing 20:38 < jjmcd> Isn't he about to head to Romania? 20:39 < Sparks> Probably 20:39 < Sparks> I don't know... haven't heard anything about Romania 20:39 < sk0rd> ok, next topic? 20:39 < sk0rd> ;) 20:39 < Sparks> Okay.. anything else on the announcement? 20:39 * quaid is done and has to vaporize now 20:39 < jjmcd> I thought I heard he was speaking in Bucharest this weekend 20:39 < Sparks> wow 20:40 < Sparks> Okay... anything else on the RNs? 20:40 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Review http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html schedule 20:40 < jjmcd> 20:40 < rudi> Just confirmation that we agree that libguestfs is too late? 20:41 < Sparks> too late for zero-day? 20:41 < rudi> Yeah 20:41 < jjmcd> The schedule saysfinal snapshot today and release pushed back a week, so I would say no, not too late 20:41 < Sparks> yeah, I think we should take advantage of the push 20:41 < rudi> OK - but I guess we should get confirmation that L10N is happy with that... 20:42 < jjmcd> I agree 20:42 < rudi> OK - I'll ask :) 20:42 < jjmcd> today = today zulu time 20:43 < rudi> Doesn't that mean that the translations would need to be completed by today? 20:44 < Sparks> how many changes need to be fixed? 20:44 < jjmcd> It says build rpm 5/25 20:44 < jjmcd> Seems like there has been a flood of bugs today 20:45 < rudi> Sparks - the section IDs (fixed), the Common Bugs section (fixed, but one problem), and the request to add libguestfs to the RN 20:45 < Sparks> so... five lines? 20:46 < rudi> Checking... 20:46 < rudi> Yep 20:47 < Sparks> cool 20:47 < Sparks> that shouldn't be too bad to "repair' 20:48 < rudi> There are also requests for documentation of two bugs, one in anaconda and one in libfprint, but I think they can go on the Common bugs page on the wiki, yes? 20:48 < Sparks> I would think so 20:50 < Sparks> Anything else? 20:50 < rudi> Not that I'm aware of 20:50 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Guides 20:50 < Sparks> Okay, due to the hour I'm not going to go through all the guides 20:51 < Sparks> does anyone need anything for their guides or is anyone having any problems? 20:51 * ke4qqq needs more time 20:51 < Sparks> for the IG? 20:51 < ke4qqq> but thankfully rudi is doing a great job of keep things moving 20:51 < Sparks> You have a week more! 20:52 < ke4qqq> lol wow - granted my wish :) 20:52 < rudi> ke4qqq - what needs doing? 20:52 < ke4qqq> rudi: I was talking about I need more time - as far as I know the IG is in good shape, we probably need to get the final release ready (get rid of draft tag) but we can talk in a bit and not hold up the meeting 20:53 < rudi> OK - yep :) 20:54 -!- Sparks changed the topic of #fedora-meeting to: Docs Meeting - Open Floor 20:54 < Sparks> Okay, anyone have anything they want to discuss? 20:54 < rudi> Translators have noticed a couple of glitches in the big, merged PO files for both the IG and UG, but I've suggested we wait until Transifex 0.6 is available rather than do anything about these now 20:54 < ke4qqq> Me! 20:54 < jjmcd> Do I gather we have agreement on everything in Publican for 12?: 20:54 < sk0rd> I did, heck if I can remember. 20:54 < ke4qqq> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF <--- Docs FAD 20:54 < laubersm> jjmcd, I agree - but can we have less than everything ? 20:55 < Sparks> jjmcd: Not yet 20:55 < sk0rd> ah, new contributors, hand raised when ready. 20:55 < Sparks> jjmcd: I'd like to have a free minute or two to really think about it. I didn't see anything objectionable, though 20:55 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Okay... go with your shameless plug 20:56 < ke4qqq> honestly I think we are in a poor place to make that decision jjmcd - immediately before release - extremely busy with all of that - might make for less than reasoned look. 20:56 < ke4qqq> We have a docs fad at the above link 20:56 < ke4qqq> you should all attend 20:56 < ke4qqq> (And SELF the day before) 20:56 < ke4qqq> ianweller is going to teach packaging 20:56 < Sparks> ke4qqq: That's all you got? 20:56 < jjmcd> ke4qqq, I can buy that. I was just hoping to check one more thing off the list :-) 20:56 < ke4qqq> and hopefully we can hash this out. 20:56 * Sparks is still contemplating on how to get down there 20:56 < ke4qqq> that is it from me 20:57 < Sparks> ke4qqq: how many Fedora hams are going to be there? 20:57 < Sparks> ke4qqq: Maybe a designated simplex freq? 20:57 * laubersm prods Sparks to get to the "new contributor" before time runs out 20:57 < ke4qqq> 2 that I know of. 20:57 < Sparks> ke4qqq: ok 20:57 < ke4qqq> I'll add that 20:57 < Sparks> sk0rd: Go ahead! 20:58 < sk0rd> I've been really happy with the time that people have spent with me, but I've noticed quite a few introductions and whatnot through the mailing list 20:58 * jjmcd has been emailing applicants to get intros 20:58 < sk0rd> as far as getting people involved, does anyone have any thoughts on improving the documentation on... joining documentation and getting started? 20:59 < Sparks> sk0rd: We need to get on that as well. This is just a really "bad" time to join as we are rushing to get everything finished for the release 20:59 < laubersm> I think a lot of us have ideas but no one has settled down enough to get it done. 20:59 < laubersm> sk0rd, I came in about this time one release ago to the same issues 20:59 < Sparks> but we should make it a priority to be better with being able to get new members on track early 20:59 < sk0rd> Sparks, it is so for senior contributors yes 21:00 < jjmcd> Sparks, gotta strike while the iron is hot, tho 21:00 < Sparks> Oh, I agree! 21:00 < sk0rd> perhaps I'll try and hit on it 21:00 < Sparks> There will be changes for F12. 21:00 < sk0rd> 21:00 < laubersm> sk0rd, no - any one - if there is something that wasn't clear to you before and somehow is now - please jump in and expand in the join docs! 21:01 < laubersm> I and others have been prodding quaid and stickster_afk to go through and "fix up" the pages too 21:01 < laubersm> with their years of wisdom 21:01 < ianweller> ke4qqq: oh i am teaching packaging? interesting. 21:01 < Sparks> ianweller: You are now 21:01 < ke4qqq> by fiat 21:01 < jjmcd> you are our leading expert 21:01 < ke4qqq> :) 21:01 < laubersm> ianweller, the CMS is to be all packaged before you can sleep 21:02 < laubersm> the more people you teach, the more likely you will get to sleep 21:02 * laubersm says knowing she will not be able to be there 21:02 < ianweller> looks like i'm getting no sleep 21:02 < ke4qqq> ianweller: I tried to get jds2001, but looks like he is unavailable 21:02 < ianweller> ke4qqq: oic. 21:02 < ke4qqq> and then Max said sending you was 'the right thing to do' 21:02 < ke4qqq> :) 21:03 < ianweller> i saw that 21:04 < jjmcd> THat way you'll be all practiced up to teach at FUDcon 21:05 < Sparks> Okay, anything else? 21:07 < Sparks> I'd like to mention that I'll be helping my wife move for the summer (summer internship) beginning tomorrow and I won't be back until Monday. I won't have Internet access during this time so I'm turning over the conn to jjmcd for the weekend. 21:07 < laubersm> excellent! 21:07 * jjmcd will be around 21:08 < Sparks> Okay, anything else? 21:08 < jjmcd> Sparks, Does that mean you will be batching it for the summer? 21:08 < Sparks> jjmcd: pretty much 21:08 < Sparks> pizza and soda all summer long 21:08 < jjmcd> Ooooh, bad. Gotta fend for yourself 21:09 * jjmcd suspects Sparks needs time in .de to learn things that go better with pizza 21:09 < Sparks> I have some projects to work on over the summer... maybe that will keep me out of trouble. 21:09 * Sparks is too poor to go to .de... 21:09 < Sparks> okay, anything else? 21:09 < Sparks> 5 21:09 < Sparks> 4 21:10 < Sparks> 3 21:10 < Sparks> 2 21:10 < Sparks> 1 21:10 < Sparks> From david.nalley at fedoraproject.org Thu May 21 01:36:11 2009 From: david.nalley at fedoraproject.org (David Nalley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 21:36:11 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting Summary 2009-05-20 Message-ID: This was largely a status meeting due to the closeness to release. *Release announcement *Release Notes ** Status esp with regard to l10n. ** 0-day updates *** Libguestfs *Schedule review - noting the schedule slip and the affected items *Brief discussion of the Docs FAD * Discussion of new contributor on-boading. From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu May 21 01:44:44 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 11:44:44 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor] In-Reply-To: <4A14A4D0.40207@redhat.com> References: <4A14A4D0.40207@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A14B20C.20608@redhat.com> > It would be great if the list could review them once and > suggest any additions/deletions. > Hi Satya! A few more that I use very regularly or see very regularly in Red Hat and Fedora docs: The article, itemizedlist and orderedlist tags should also support tags under them. At this early stage, I assume that you want to avoid <example>s, <figure>s and <table>s, but of course, we make a lot of use of these as well... Good luck with the project! Cheers Ruediger From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Thu May 21 02:29:49 2009 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 19:29:49 -0700 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: <20090520231933.GD6309@localhost.localdomain> References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> <c5cb00220905180536u591ce07dja6ec2cc51a7158da@mail.gmail.com> <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> <c5cb00220905180640o4146081g6b0c53f3b8c31f1@mail.gmail.com> <20090520145052.GI3512@localhost.localdomain> <4A147FE9.4000202@redhat.com> <20090520231933.GD6309@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1242872989.6082.2.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 19:19 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 08:10:49AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > > I put a basic page there cribbed from the Features page, so that there > > would be something for the Release Notes to link to... > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Configuring_a_fingerprint_reader > > I have updated screenshots -- which have changed from the ones in that > page -- that I made earlier for a tour: > > http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/temp/fprint/ > > Would someone like to take the very easy task of substituting them and > uploading them on the wiki? I uploaded them, but apparently there are 3 steps instead of 4 now? From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu May 21 02:39:29 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:39:29 +1000 Subject: Zeroday change to release notes for Release Candidate? In-Reply-To: <18959.11328.940584.285479@gargle.gargle.HOWL> References: <20090513214230.GL9506@calliope.phig.org> <4818cd80905131459o79515f04td4f1d75178043ef5@mail.gmail.com> <18959.11328.940584.285479@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Message-ID: <4A14BEE1.2080802@redhat.com> The small Zeroday changes that we previously discussed are all in place, and the Dutch, Polish and Spanish translators have again brought their translations up to 100% finished -- many thanks! Today, docs has had requests for two more small 0-day changes. One of these [1] adds four lines of text (plus some links that don't need translating) to the Virtualization section. The other one [2] really only affects G?ran; it re-adds a short section from the Fedora 10 guide that has already been translated into all the languages that have substantial F11 translations... except Swedish. Since the slip gives us some more time, do any translators or translation teams object to making these additions? Cheers Ruediger [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-May/msg00086.html [2] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/en_US/index.html#sn-Common_bugs -- Section 1.3.2 Common Bugs -- two lines of text From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu May 21 03:38:00 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:38:00 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] Message-ID: <4A14CC98.9010602@redhat.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor] Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 10:57:05 +1000 From: Lana Brindley <lbrindle at redhat.com> Organization: Red Hat Asia-Pacific To: Joshua Wulf <jwulf at redhat.com> CC: content-services-staff at redhat.com References: <4A14A4D0.40207 at redhat.com> Joshua Wulf wrote: > Satya is doing a WYSIWYG docbook editor as a Google SOC project in > Fedora. He wants feedback on what tags to provide support for. Please > take a look at this list and give some feedback on tags that we use that > are not covered in it. > > - Josh > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor > Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 21:47:25 +0530 > From: satya komaragiri <satya.komaragiri at gmail.com> > Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project > <fedora-docs-list at redhat.com> > To: For participants of the Documentation Project > <fedora-docs-list at redhat.com> > > > > Hello, > > I have narrowed down to the following set of tags as the minimum that > Docbook editor will need to support for the initial stages of the > project. It would be great if the list could review them once and > suggest any additions/deletions. > > > tags: > > Top Level: > <article id="ID"> > </article> > > > > Section: > <section id="ID"> > <title> > > > > > Block Tags: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inline: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is this tag the same as ? I don't know it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > and could both possibly be dropped > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, support for > > > Regards, > Satya > From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu May 21 03:38:17 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:38:17 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] Message-ID: <4A14CCA9.5090706@redhat.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor] Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 11:16:56 +1000 From: Christopher Curran To: Lana Brindley CC: Joshua Wulf , content-services-staff at redhat.com References: <4A14A4D0.40207 at redhat.com> <4A14A6E1.6040702 at redhat.com> Lana Brindley wrote: > Joshua Wulf wrote: >> Satya is doing a WYSIWYG docbook editor as a Google SOC project in >> Fedora. He wants feedback on what tags to provide support for. Please >> take a look at this list and give some feedback on tags that we use >> that are not covered in it. >> >> - Josh >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor >> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 21:47:25 +0530 >> From: satya komaragiri >> Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project >> >> To: For participants of the Documentation Project >> >> >> >> >> Hello, >> >> I have narrowed down to the following set of tags as the minimum that >> Docbook editor will need to support for the initial stages of the >> project. It would be great if the list could review them once and >> suggest any additions/deletions. >> >> >> tags: >> >> Top Level: >>
>>
>> >> >> >> Section: >>
>> >>
>> >> >> >> Block Tags: >> >> > >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Inline: >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > Is this tag the same as ? I don't know it. > programlisting is for a block of preformatted code. computeroutput is for a single inline output snippet. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > and could both possibly be dropped > and in there place firstterm should be added. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > Also, support for >> >> >> Regards, >> Satya >> > The only one I would say is seglist should be in the list of advanced features to implement :) I wonder why I didn't get the fedora-docs-list email about this... Chris -- Chris Curran Content Author II Phone: +61735148302 (UTC+10) 193 North Quay, Brisbane, Australia. Red Hat, Inc. From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu May 21 03:38:39 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 13:38:39 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] Message-ID: <4A14CCBF.9000904@redhat.com> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor] Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 11:20:26 +1000 From: Lana Brindley Organization: Red Hat Asia-Pacific To: Christopher Curran CC: Joshua Wulf , content-services-staff at redhat.com References: <4A14A4D0.40207 at redhat.com> <4A14A6E1.6040702 at redhat.com> <4A14AB88.7060903 at redhat.com> Christopher Curran wrote: > Lana Brindley wrote: >> Joshua Wulf wrote: >>> Satya is doing a WYSIWYG docbook editor as a Google SOC project in >>> Fedora. He wants feedback on what tags to provide support for. Please >>> take a look at this list and give some feedback on tags that we use >>> that are not covered in it. >>> >>> - Josh >>> >>> -------- Original Message -------- >>> Subject: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor >>> Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 21:47:25 +0530 >>> From: satya komaragiri >>> Reply-To: For participants of the Documentation Project >>> >>> To: For participants of the Documentation Project >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Hello, >>> >>> I have narrowed down to the following set of tags as the minimum that >>> Docbook editor will need to support for the initial stages of the >>> project. It would be great if the list could review them once and >>> suggest any additions/deletions. >>> >>> >>> tags: >>> >>> Top Level: >>>
>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>> Section: >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> >>> >>> Block Tags: >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Inline: >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> Is this tag the same as ? I don't know it. >> > programlisting is for a block of preformatted code. computeroutput is > for a single inline output snippet. Ah-ha! Thanks Chris :) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> and could both possibly be dropped >> > and in there place firstterm should be added. It's in, scroll up. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> Also, support for >>> >>> >>> Regards, >>> Satya >>> >> > The only one I would say is seglist should be in the list of advanced > features to implement :) Actually, that reminds me of , which I use a lot: > > I wonder why I didn't get the fedora-docs-list email about this... > > > Chris > L From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu May 21 04:38:54 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 00:38:54 -0400 Subject: [Bug 500153] Bad lock managment between CIFS and NFSv4 (kernel) access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200905210438.n4L4cs3M009492@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=500153 Jon Stanley changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com | Version|rawhide |9 --- Comment #3 from Jon Stanley 2009-05-21 00:38:53 EDT --- Correcting version based on information in bugreport. Sorry for the noise -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Thu May 21 04:37:41 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 00:37:41 -0400 Subject: [Bug 500153] Bad lock managment between CIFS and NFSv4 (kernel) access In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200905210437.n4L4bf40009368@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=500153 Jon Stanley changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC| |itamar at ispbrasil.com.br, | |jonstanley at gmail.com, | |kernel-maint at redhat.com, | |quintela at redhat.com Component|Deployment_Guide |kernel Version|unspecified |rawhide AssignedTo|mhideo at redhat.com |kernel-maint at redhat.com Product|Fedora Hosted Projects |Fedora QAContact|rlerch at redhat.com |extras-qa at fedoraproject.org --- Comment #2 from Jon Stanley 2009-05-21 00:37:40 EDT --- Moving to Fedora/Kernel -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Thu May 21 06:37:26 2009 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (sankarshan) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 12:07:26 +0530 Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10903210504q1bb67763jc4ec0db41bd053ad@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10903220720j7cddc9b5hcba8c71f83b7925d@mail.gmail.com> <20090324195934.GF16319@calliope.phig.org> <146c63b10903241344ybcd625crb8cb189da55dc3b1@mail.gmail.com> <20090325230109.GK16319@calliope.phig.org> <20090326144236.GC10723@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904211319h5f919b8vcf2c70ea9938f8dc@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <35586fc00905202337g2499d60bi7ca3a6517ede1fdf@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 9:47 PM, satya komaragiri wrote: > I have narrowed down to the following set of tags as the minimum that > Docbook editor will need to support for the initial stages of the > project. It would be great if the list could review them once and > suggest any additions/deletions. Might I suggest putting up the proposed list on the wiki (allowing more additions by those who use DocBook often) or, as a file on your fedorapeople.org $home (and, accepting additions as patches). -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work Sent from Pune, MH, India From kgs at esilibrary.com Thu May 21 10:45:38 2009 From: kgs at esilibrary.com (Karen Schneider) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 06:45:38 -0400 Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10903210504q1bb67763jc4ec0db41bd053ad@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10903220720j7cddc9b5hcba8c71f83b7925d@mail.gmail.com> <20090324195934.GF16319@calliope.phig.org> <146c63b10903241344ybcd625crb8cb189da55dc3b1@mail.gmail.com> <20090325230109.GK16319@calliope.phig.org> <20090326144236.GC10723@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904211319h5f919b8vcf2c70ea9938f8dc@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Concur on the wiki and on the additions, and kudos for your work on this. What is your deadline for feedback on tags? A number of us in the Evergreen project just committed to moving forward with DocBook but we're all at a user conference this week. -- -- | Karen G. Schneider | Community Librarian | Equinox Software Inc. "The Evergreen Experts" | Toll-free: 1.877.Open.ILS (1.877.673.6457) x712 | kgs at esilibrary.com | Web: http://www.esilibrary.com | Be a part of the Evergreen International Conference, May 20-22, 2009! | http://www.lyrasis.org/evergreen On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 12:17 PM, satya komaragiri < satya.komaragiri at gmail.com> wrote: > Hello, > > I have narrowed down to the following set of tags as the minimum that > Docbook editor will need to support for the initial stages of the > project. It would be great if the list could review them once and > suggest any additions/deletions. > > > tags: > > Top Level: >
>
> > > > Section: >
> >
> > > > Block Tags: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Inline: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > Satya > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 21 11:53:45 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 07:53:45 -0400 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: <1242872989.6082.2.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> <20090520145052.GI3512@localhost.localdomain> <4A147FE9.4000202@redhat.com> <20090520231933.GD6309@localhost.localdomain> <1242872989.6082.2.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> Message-ID: <20090521115345.GD6762@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 07:29:49PM -0700, Dale Bewley wrote: > On Wed, 2009-05-20 at 19:19 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 08:10:49AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > > > I put a basic page there cribbed from the Features page, so that there > > > would be something for the Release Notes to link to... > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Configuring_a_fingerprint_reader > > > > I have updated screenshots -- which have changed from the ones in that > > page -- that I made earlier for a tour: > > > > http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/temp/fprint/ > > > > Would someone like to take the very easy task of substituting them and > > uploading them on the wiki? > > I uploaded them, but apparently there are 3 steps instead of 4 now? Specifically, do you mean that the system-config-auth step (from the menu, System > Administration > Authentication) is no longer required? That's my recollection too -- that fprintd and whatever other supporting stuff is needed is now installed out of the box by default. Anyone else confirm this? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu May 21 12:03:12 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:33:12 +0530 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: <20090521115345.GD6762@localhost.localdomain> References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> <20090520145052.GI3512@localhost.localdomain> <4A147FE9.4000202@redhat.com> <20090520231933.GD6309@localhost.localdomain> <1242872989.6082.2.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> <20090521115345.GD6762@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4A154300.3090905@fedoraproject.org> On 05/21/2009 05:23 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Specifically, do you mean that the system-config-auth step (from the > menu, System > Administration > Authentication) is no longer required? > That's my recollection too -- that fprintd and whatever other > supporting stuff is needed is now installed out of the box by > default. Anyone else confirm this? Comps confirms this. http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/comps-f11.xml.in?view=markup Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 21 12:24:34 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 08:24:34 -0400 Subject: Fwd: release notes for F11 In-Reply-To: <4A154300.3090905@fedoraproject.org> References: <4818cd80905180521u66d502dej10b4354fe119a3e1@mail.gmail.com> <20090518132610.GD3634@localhost.localdomain> <20090520145052.GI3512@localhost.localdomain> <4A147FE9.4000202@redhat.com> <20090520231933.GD6309@localhost.localdomain> <1242872989.6082.2.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> <20090521115345.GD6762@localhost.localdomain> <4A154300.3090905@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090521122434.GI6762@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 05:33:12PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 05/21/2009 05:23 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > Specifically, do you mean that the system-config-auth step (from the > > menu, System > Administration > Authentication) is no longer required? > > That's my recollection too -- that fprintd and whatever other > > supporting stuff is needed is now installed out of the box by > > default. Anyone else confirm this? > > Comps confirms this. > > http://cvs.fedoraproject.org/viewvc/comps/comps-f11.xml.in?view=markup Thanks Rahul! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Thu May 21 17:02:13 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 22:32:13 +0530 Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <20090520165622.GN3512@localhost.localdomain> References: <91B4D2D4-702C-49EA-9278-720EB5B44724@gmail.com> <20090324195934.GF16319@calliope.phig.org> <146c63b10903241344ybcd625crb8cb189da55dc3b1@mail.gmail.com> <20090325230109.GK16319@calliope.phig.org> <20090326144236.GC10723@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904211319h5f919b8vcf2c70ea9938f8dc@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> <20090520165622.GN3512@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <146c63b10905211002o7dbf661arcf7dbf7c3183c7e7@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > [...snip...] >> > > Are you planning on implementing support for the @class attribute? ?I > use that a lot, and it appears in Fedora Doc > > Also, I think we tend to use and its indexing-specific > children too. ?But if those significantly increase the difficulty, > they could be pushed off. ?These are just suggestions and not > requirements. :-) > I saw the class attribute being used in quite a few places. But i haven't yet figured how to implement it and in a wysiwyg interface. How will they be specified, written, edited, etc. Indexitem can be implemented with a button (say Add to Index) which will index some word/phrase which is selected/highlighted. Class has a lot of variations for different tags so I need to think of a 'user-friendly' way to implement it. Perhaps when the user clicks the button for filename, I could give the user some kind of a drop down menu which enumerates the type (devicefile, directory, etc, as listed at http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/filename.html). I'll try to figure out these details soon and get these two in. Thanks for the feedback. I'll try and implement all the important bits suggested here. :) Regards, Satya From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Thu May 21 17:18:09 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 22:48:09 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] In-Reply-To: <4A14CCBF.9000904@redhat.com> References: <4A14CCBF.9000904@redhat.com> Message-ID: <146c63b10905211018n60b1f20at1d52c7d04004c091@mail.gmail.com> Hello, On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 7:14 AM, Ruediger Landmann wrote: [...] > Hi Satya! > > A few more that I use very regularly or see very regularly in Red Hat and > Fedora docs: [...] It might be tough to support some of these initially. Others should be easier to implement. Meta elements are tougher to implement because they are not easy to wysiwyg-ify. Cross referencing, appendices, indexing are more complex. I'll get down to them after the basic editing is in place. > The article, itemizedlist and orderedlist tags should also support > tags under them. Yes, I forgot to mention them in the list. Will do. > At this early stage, I assume that you want to avoid <example>s, <figure>s > and <table>s, but of course, we make a lot of use of these as well... That is indeed the plan. I can get <figure> in more easily though. It depends on what the editor supports for now as well. On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 9:08 AM, Ruediger Landmann <r.landmann at redhat.com> wrote: [more tags ^_^] > <remark></remark> Adding to list. > Also, support for <!--comments--> This is another tough one as comments are not really visible. For now users should be able to edit them directly in SourceView feature. > Good luck with the project! > > Cheers > Ruediger Thanks for the valuable feedback. I'll add this to the suggested wiki page and then it'll be easier to collaborate. :) Regards, Satya From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Thu May 21 17:23:29 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 22:53:29 +0530 Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <35586fc00905202337g2499d60bi7ca3a6517ede1fdf@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10903210504q1bb67763jc4ec0db41bd053ad@mail.gmail.com> <20090324195934.GF16319@calliope.phig.org> <146c63b10903241344ybcd625crb8cb189da55dc3b1@mail.gmail.com> <20090325230109.GK16319@calliope.phig.org> <20090326144236.GC10723@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904211319h5f919b8vcf2c70ea9938f8dc@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> <35586fc00905202337g2499d60bi7ca3a6517ede1fdf@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <146c63b10905211023i22164b36r3ee7035b699507b8@mail.gmail.com> Hello, On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 12:07 PM, sankarshan <foss.mailinglists at gmail.com> wrote: > Might I suggest putting up the proposed list on the wiki (allowing > more additions by those who use DocBook often) or, as a file on your > fedorapeople.org $home (and, accepting additions as patches). Thank you for the idea. Will do so right away. Regards, Satya From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Thu May 21 17:25:00 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 22:55:00 +0530 Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <e28b6dac0905210345u3294a30elc29fd15242bba07b@mail.gmail.com> References: <146c63b10903210504q1bb67763jc4ec0db41bd053ad@mail.gmail.com> <20090324195934.GF16319@calliope.phig.org> <146c63b10903241344ybcd625crb8cb189da55dc3b1@mail.gmail.com> <20090325230109.GK16319@calliope.phig.org> <20090326144236.GC10723@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904211319h5f919b8vcf2c70ea9938f8dc@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> <e28b6dac0905210345u3294a30elc29fd15242bba07b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <146c63b10905211025n1683777eyff917d2fc859edc2@mail.gmail.com> Hi, On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 4:15 PM, Karen Schneider <kgs at esilibrary.com> wrote: > Concur on the wiki and on the additions, and kudos for your work on this. > What is your deadline for feedback on tags? A number of us in the Evergreen > project just committed to moving forward with DocBook but we're all at a > user conference this week. There is no deadline. :) The addition will be progressive and the features can just be extended at any point in time. Will be great to have more feedback. Thanks and Regards, Satya From loupgaroublond at gmail.com Thu May 21 20:07:08 2009 From: loupgaroublond at gmail.com (Yaakov Nemoy) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 16:07:08 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <e28b6dac0905210345u3294a30elc29fd15242bba07b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <fuzw9a1aoasu9jnc2qUYAxe124vaj_firegpg@mail.gmail.com> 2009/5/21 Karen Schneider <kgs at esilibrary.com>: > Concur on the wiki and on the additions, and kudos for your work on this. > What is your deadline for feedback on tags? A number of us in the Evergreen > project just committed to moving forward with DocBook but we're all at a > user conference this week. It's not a deadline that Satya is under. Rather, GSoC starts coding this weekend, and the more information she has upfront, the better she can focus her priorities. This means, the better her priorities are set up, the more useful Beacon will be to us right away. -Yaakov -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 270 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090521/209fdd38/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 21 21:50:12 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 21 May 2009 17:50:12 -0400 Subject: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor In-Reply-To: <146c63b10905211002o7dbf661arcf7dbf7c3183c7e7@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090324195934.GF16319@calliope.phig.org> <146c63b10903241344ybcd625crb8cb189da55dc3b1@mail.gmail.com> <20090325230109.GK16319@calliope.phig.org> <20090326144236.GC10723@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10903261102r746d6ff8lb69dba003e8a9034@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904010818o5ec03506nf2ec044df36c423d@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10904211319h5f919b8vcf2c70ea9938f8dc@mail.gmail.com> <146c63b10905200917j5cf577b8i269f81f22e82920f@mail.gmail.com> <20090520165622.GN3512@localhost.localdomain> <146c63b10905211002o7dbf661arcf7dbf7c3183c7e7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090521215012.GC6762@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 10:32:13PM +0530, satya komaragiri wrote: > Hi, > > On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 10:26 PM, Paul W. Frields <stickster at gmail.com> wrote: > > > > [...snip...] > >> <systemitem></systemitem> > > > > Are you planning on implementing support for the @class attribute? ?I > > use that a lot, and it appears in Fedora Doc > > > > Also, I think we tend to use <indexterm> and its indexing-specific > > children too. ?But if those significantly increase the difficulty, > > they could be pushed off. ?These are just suggestions and not > > requirements. :-) > > > > I saw the class attribute being used in quite a few places. But i > haven't yet figured how to implement it and <indexitem> in a wysiwyg > interface. How will they be specified, written, edited, etc. > > Indexitem can be implemented with a button (say Add to Index) which > will index some word/phrase which is selected/highlighted. > > Class has a lot of variations for different tags so I need to think of > a 'user-friendly' way to implement it. Perhaps when the user clicks > the button for filename, I could give the user some kind of a drop > down menu which enumerates the type (devicefile, directory, etc, as > listed at http://docbook.org/tdg/en/html/filename.html). I'll try to > figure out these details soon and get these two in. > > Thanks for the feedback. I'll try and implement all the important bits > suggested here. :) Sounds great, and thanks for the clarification of scope. Good luck! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu May 21 22:26:27 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:26:27 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] In-Reply-To: <146c63b10905211018n60b1f20at1d52c7d04004c091@mail.gmail.com> References: <4A14CCBF.9000904@redhat.com> <146c63b10905211018n60b1f20at1d52c7d04004c091@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A15D513.2010606@redhat.com> satya komaragiri wrote: > Thanks for the valuable feedback. I'll add this to the suggested wiki > page and then it'll be easier to collaborate. :) > > Thanks Satya - once the wiki page is up and running, you might also like to alert Red Hat Engineering Content Services -- this is the department where the documentation gets written. You can get the address from the CC on this email. Cheers Ruediger From foss.mailinglists at gmail.com Fri May 22 05:08:20 2009 From: foss.mailinglists at gmail.com (sankarshan) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 10:38:20 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] In-Reply-To: <4A15D513.2010606@redhat.com> References: <4A14CCBF.9000904@redhat.com> <146c63b10905211018n60b1f20at1d52c7d04004c091@mail.gmail.com> <4A15D513.2010606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <35586fc00905212208q64855807p2712a3a865e8865f@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:56 AM, Ruediger Landmann <r.landmann at redhat.com> wrote: > once the wiki page is up and running, you might also like to alert Red Hat > Engineering Content Services -- this is the department where the > documentation gets written. You can get the address from the CC on this > email. I have my doubts about whether that is an external list - I can't see that listed off <https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/> -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work Sent from Pune, MH, India From asgeirf at redhat.com Fri May 22 12:38:32 2009 From: asgeirf at redhat.com (Asgeir Frimannsson) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 08:38:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] In-Reply-To: <98694839.2724981242995852497.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <612251041.2725171242995912855.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> ----- "sankarshan" <foss.mailinglists at gmail.com> wrote: > On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:56 AM, Ruediger Landmann > <r.landmann at redhat.com> wrote: > > > once the wiki page is up and running, you might also like to alert > Red Hat > > Engineering Content Services -- this is the department where the > > documentation gets written. You can get the address from the CC on > this > > email. > > I have my doubts about whether that is an external list - I can't see > that listed off <https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/> The need to alert an Red Hat internal mailing list about this is, IMHO, plain silly and wrong. cheers, asgeir From jwulf at redhat.com Mon May 25 00:34:53 2009 From: jwulf at redhat.com (Joshua Wulf) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 10:34:53 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] In-Reply-To: <612251041.2725171242995912855.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <612251041.2725171242995912855.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A19E7AD.9010707@redhat.com> On 05/22/2009 10:38 PM, Asgeir Frimannsson wrote: > ----- "sankarshan"<foss.mailinglists at gmail.com> wrote: > >> On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 3:56 AM, Ruediger Landmann >> <r.landmann at redhat.com> wrote: >> >> >>> once the wiki page is up and running, you might also like to alert >>> >> Red Hat >> >>> Engineering Content Services -- this is the department where the >>> documentation gets written. You can get the address from the CC on >>> >> this >> >>> email. >>> >> I have my doubts about whether that is an external list - I can't see >> that listed off<https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/> >> > > The need to alert an Red Hat internal mailing list about this is, IMHO, plain silly and wrong. > > cheers, > asgeir > > It's not a need, it's a suggestion. :-) People on the Red Hat docs team who contribute directly to Fedora docs are on f-d-l. However, there are a significant number of people working daily with docbook xml who are not, and are on c-s-l. Getting their input is a good idea. It seems to me that Rudi didn't realise that c-s-l is not a public list. He can easily shuttle any relevant input between the two lists, as he did in this instance. - Josh -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090525/5b4cfb59/attachment.htm> From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 25 02:00:37 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 07:30:37 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] In-Reply-To: <4A19E7AD.9010707@redhat.com> References: <612251041.2725171242995912855.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <4A19E7AD.9010707@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A19FBC5.7090500@fedoraproject.org> On 05/25/2009 06:04 AM, Joshua Wulf wrote: > It's not a need, it's a suggestion. :-) > > People on the Red Hat docs team who contribute directly to Fedora docs > are on f-d-l. However, there are a significant number of people working > daily with docbook xml who are not, and are on c-s-l. Getting their > input is a good idea. > > It seems to me that Rudi didn't realise that c-s-l is not a public list. > > He can easily shuttle any relevant input between the two lists, as he > did in this instance. Just in case, it wasn't clear the project is being by a GSoC student and not a Red Hat employee. Rahul From ccurran at redhat.com Mon May 25 02:04:52 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 12:04:52 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] In-Reply-To: <4A19FBC5.7090500@fedoraproject.org> References: <612251041.2725171242995912855.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <4A19E7AD.9010707@redhat.com> <4A19FBC5.7090500@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4A19FCC4.5040901@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 05/25/2009 06:04 AM, Joshua Wulf wrote: > > >> It's not a need, it's a suggestion. :-) >> >> People on the Red Hat docs team who contribute directly to Fedora docs >> are on f-d-l. However, there are a significant number of people working >> daily with docbook xml who are not, and are on c-s-l. Getting their >> input is a good idea. >> >> It seems to me that Rudi didn't realise that c-s-l is not a public list. >> >> He can easily shuttle any relevant input between the two lists, as he >> did in this instance. >> > > Just in case, it wasn't clear the project is being by a GSoC student and > not a Red Hat employee. > > Rahul > > But we (Red Hat employees) are always keen to provide feedback, advice and assistance in the true spirit of open source. Chris -- Chris Curran Content Author II Phone: +61735148302 (UTC+10) 193 North Quay, Brisbane, Australia. Red Hat, Inc. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon May 25 02:11:20 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 07:41:20 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] In-Reply-To: <4A19FCC4.5040901@redhat.com> References: <612251041.2725171242995912855.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <4A19E7AD.9010707@redhat.com> <4A19FBC5.7090500@fedoraproject.org> <4A19FCC4.5040901@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4A19FE48.2070504@fedoraproject.org> On 05/25/2009 07:34 AM, Christopher Curran wrote: >> > But we (Red Hat employees) are always keen to provide feedback, advice > and assistance in the true spirit of open source. That's great especially since the people who have been doing content work full-time would have valuable input on what they would like to see in such a tool. It should continue in a public list such as this one however for the rest of the community to observe or participate in the discussions. Rahul From ccurran at redhat.com Mon May 25 04:50:58 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 14:50:58 +1000 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] In-Reply-To: <4A19FE48.2070504@fedoraproject.org> References: <612251041.2725171242995912855.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <4A19E7AD.9010707@redhat.com> <4A19FBC5.7090500@fedoraproject.org> <4A19FCC4.5040901@redhat.com> <4A19FE48.2070504@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4A1A23B2.70307@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 05/25/2009 07:34 AM, Christopher Curran wrote: > > >>> >>> >> But we (Red Hat employees) are always keen to provide feedback, advice >> and assistance in the true spirit of open source. >> > > That's great especially since the people who have been doing content > work full-time would have valuable input on what they would like to see > in such a tool. It should continue in a public list such as this one > however for the rest of the community to observe or participate in the > discussions. > > Rahul > > For the record, there wasn't any huge discussion off-list. Only 3 posts in all and all of the content has been forwarded here. No conspiracy theory, just a missing Reply-to header. Chris -- Chris Curran Content Author II Phone: +61735148302 (UTC+10) 193 North Quay, Brisbane, Australia. Red Hat, Inc. From lyh at liyouhua.com Mon May 25 08:45:30 2009 From: lyh at liyouhua.com (=?GB2312?B?wO7T0buq?=) Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 16:45:30 +0800 Subject: Self-Introduction Message-ID: <dac1f16a0905250145g2c27026ag20f41ccb495a71af@mail.gmail.com> Greetings Fedora-docs-listers, My name is Idealist Lee. I'm from East Asia, China, Suzhou. Nowadays I?m working as a junior software deveopler on Home Automation. I have used Fedora for two years(Fedora 6, Fedora 8 and now Fedora 10). I think it's time for me to do something for the community now. And I can be help to translate English documents to Chinese, though I need some practice first. So, if something that I can be helpful to, please count me in. Best wishes, Idealist Lee -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090525/5be80733/attachment.htm> From r.landmann at redhat.com Mon May 25 22:38:21 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:38:21 +1000 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <cee6d00e0905201205r3f28df51yd9549b28349b87c4@mail.gmail.com> References: <cee6d00e0905201205r3f28df51yd9549b28349b87c4@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1B1DDD.9080101@redhat.com> daniel cabrera wrote: > The main reason why I want to join the Documentation Project is that > I've enjoyed so much translating both Installation and User Guide, > that I realize how comfortable am I trying to explain to other people > what's fedora about. So, if you need any help, it will be nice if you > can count me in. > Hi Daniel ? welcome aboard! Sorry it's taken so long for anyone to greet you :) Is there anything in particular that you would like to work on? Cheers Rudi From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 26 09:08:03 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 02:08:03 -0700 Subject: Wikipedia license change Message-ID: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> Related to something we've discussed: "Wikipedia drops GNU in favor of Creative Commons license" http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9133401&source=CWNLE_nlt_dailyam_2009-05-22 -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090526/12050d6d/attachment.sig> From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue May 26 09:19:05 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:49:05 +0530 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> On 05/26/2009 02:38 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > Related to something we've discussed: > > "Wikipedia drops GNU in favor of Creative Commons license" So, can Fedora Docs and Fedora on the whole switch to Creative Commons SA license from OPL? There doesn't seem to be any real blockers to the move. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 26 11:50:29 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 07:50:29 -0400 Subject: Self-introduction: Ben Cotton In-Reply-To: <87f35b5e0905201347l118bc6d5l883e80944a7e0f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <87f35b5e0905201347l118bc6d5l883e80944a7e0f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090526115029.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 04:47:00PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote: > Greetings Fedora-docs-listers, > > It recently occurred to me that it is time I gave something back to > the community. I started using Red Hat 8 in college, and eventually > switched to using Linux on my primary desktop. I now make a living as > a sysadmin for RHEL desktops and servers in a small department of a > large Midwestern university. Since I don't have much skill as a > programmer, I decided that the Docs group was a good place to start. Welcome Ben -- There are plenty of easy ways to get your feet wet, including helping with some wiki maintenance. Have you had a chance to stop by IRC and say howdy? Was there in anything else you've seen in particular that you'd be interested in working on? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Tue May 26 12:23:43 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 08:23:43 -0400 Subject: Self-introduction: Ben Cotton In-Reply-To: <87f35b5e0905201347l118bc6d5l883e80944a7e0f5@mail.gmail.com> References: <87f35b5e0905201347l118bc6d5l883e80944a7e0f5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <c5cb00220905260523h3638fb20i2982edbb3a44407f@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 16:47, Ben Cotton <bcotton+fedora at gmail.com> wrote: > Greetings Fedora-docs-listers, > > It recently occurred to me that it is time I gave something back to > the community. ?I started using Red Hat 8 in college, and eventually > switched to using Linux on my primary desktop. ?I now make a living as > a sysadmin for RHEL desktops and servers in a small department of a > large Midwestern university. ?Since I don't have much skill as a > programmer, I decided that the Docs group was a good place to start. > > I don't have any formal project experience, but I do fancy myself a > passable writer. ?Among the accomplishments I'm most proud of during > my tenure as a sysadmin is the creation of an internal wiki for my > department's IT staff. ?When I took the position, the documentation > was whatever could be found in old e-mail messages. ?Largely on my own > effort, but with considerable help from the rest of the staff, our > wiki is now a valuable resource. ?The contents range from detailed > how-to guides to big-picture discussions of the system architecture. > > My degree is in meteorology, so I do not have a great deal of formal > training with computers. ?Most of my knowledge comes from breaking my > computer and then getting it working again. ?I do have certifications > on Linux (RHCT) and OS X (ACSP), and I try to get training when the > opportunity and budget align. ?My primary technical skills are in > basic setup and administration: kickstarts, package management, NFS, > CUPS, etc. ?What I lack in technical skills, though, I make up for in > the ability to find contributors. ?I tend to bring in people outside > my department to help on specific tasks when their skills better match > the needs. > > Here's my GPG key: > [1018 bcotton at boone ~ ]$ gpg --fingerprint AB46AA74 > pub ? 1024D/AB46AA74 2009-02-14 > ? ? Key fingerprint = B09D 841C 1347 091A 3BD0 ?759F D9CD 1319 AB46 AA74 > uid ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?Ben Cotton <bcotton at purdue.edu> > sub ? 2048g/4BB9F3C7 2009-02-14 > > I think that covers all I need to share. ?I look forward to working > with all of you and contributing to the project. > > > BC > > -- > Ben Cotton Welcome aboard, Ben. Have you gotten your FAS account, yet? Eric From h.daniel.cabrera at gmail.com Tue May 26 15:07:30 2009 From: h.daniel.cabrera at gmail.com (daniel cabrera) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:07:30 -0300 Subject: Self Introduction In-Reply-To: <4A1B1DDD.9080101@redhat.com> References: <cee6d00e0905201205r3f28df51yd9549b28349b87c4@mail.gmail.com> <4A1B1DDD.9080101@redhat.com> Message-ID: <cee6d00e0905260807j94470cbp2824fe74171d5ef5@mail.gmail.com> On Mon, May 25, 2009 at 7:38 PM, Ruediger Landmann <r.landmann at redhat.com>wrote: > Hi Daniel ? welcome aboard! Sorry it's taken so long for anyone to greet > you :) > > Is there anything in particular that you would like to work on? > > Cheers > Rudi > > Hi Ruediguer, thanks, and don't worry about the late welcome. I received a really great email by John J. McDonough -the guy who sponsored me- giving me tips and a lot of info about the Docs Team. Thanks a lot for that, John. I know you are all full of work until next Tuesday. As for myself, I'm mostly thinking to help with the wiki maintenance, but before trying anything, there are a couple of things of the Docs ways that I need to fully understand. Also, as a Spanish team member, we still had a few strings to translate of the last guides you deployed: SElinux and Security guide. I'm planning to stop by the IRC anytime to say hi (and to ask questions), but I think that for the next couple or weeks or so, I'll be quietly watching and learning things before making myself really useful. Again, thanks a lot for letting me in, and congratulations in advance for the new release. See you around, Daniel. -- http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Logan irc: _logan_ on freenode -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090526/a780dad5/attachment.htm> From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 26 15:18:40 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 11:18:40 -0400 Subject: Writing Open Source Message-ID: <20090526151840.GQ3473@localhost.localdomain> http://www.emmajane.net/node/925 This looks to be of interest to the Fedora Docs team. Note that there is apparently a sponsored attendance slot left. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From bcotton+fedora at gmail.com Tue May 26 15:36:45 2009 From: bcotton+fedora at gmail.com (Ben Cotton) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 11:36:45 -0400 Subject: Self-introduction: Ben Cotton In-Reply-To: <20090526115029.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> References: <87f35b5e0905201347l118bc6d5l883e80944a7e0f5@mail.gmail.com> <20090526115029.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <87f35b5e0905260836m7d23be82q16bb7c8afbd6bf9f@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Paul W. Frields <stickster at gmail.com> wrote: > There are plenty of easy ways to get your feet wet, including helping > with some wiki maintenance. ?Have you had a chance to stop by IRC and > say howdy? > I've dropped in from time to time and had a few brief conversations. I missed last week's meeting because 0001 UTC got shuffled around in my mind to 0100. These things happen, I suppose. > Was there in anything else you've seen in particular that you'd be > interested in working on? Nothing particular strikes my fancy. To start out with, I'll probably just go wherever I get gently nudged. I tend to wait for some direction on things until I get comfortable. On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 8:23 AM, Eric Christensen <eric at christensenplace.us> wrote: > Welcome aboard, Ben. Have you gotten your FAS account, yet? Yes, I actually found out about the group by poking around the FAS site. My ID is bcotton. -- Ben Cotton From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue May 26 21:56:14 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 17:56:14 -0400 Subject: Writing Open Source References: <20090526151840.GQ3473@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <8920F3B57D084C20BCA4B91121CF181F@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" <stickster at gmail.com> To: "Fedora Documentation Project" <fedora-docs-list at redhat.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:18 AM Subject: Writing Open Source > This looks to be of interest to the Fedora Docs team. Note that there > is apparently a sponsored attendance slot left. the Cat Herding session looks to be especially interesting, but do you have any idea how remote that is? The airport has a single runway, looks like you'll be flying in on a Cessna, or maybe a King Air if you're lucky! Don't forget your caribou repellant, it's practically to the north pole. According to Wikipedia, international arrivals must come in planes seating 15 or fewer passengers. It doesn't look like the airport could handle anything much bigger, anyway. http://www.flyowensound.ca/copa/owensound.jpg Seriously, seems like an odd place for a conference, although the agenda does look appealing. What are they thinking? --McD From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 26 18:02:05 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:02:05 -0400 Subject: Writing Open Source In-Reply-To: <8920F3B57D084C20BCA4B91121CF181F@Aidan> References: <20090526151840.GQ3473@localhost.localdomain> <8920F3B57D084C20BCA4B91121CF181F@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090526180205.GA3473@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 05:56:14PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" <stickster at gmail.com> > To: "Fedora Documentation Project" <fedora-docs-list at redhat.com> > Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 11:18 AM > Subject: Writing Open Source > > >> This looks to be of interest to the Fedora Docs team. Note that there >> is apparently a sponsored attendance slot left. > > the Cat Herding session looks to be especially interesting, but do you have > any idea how remote that is? The airport has a single runway, looks like > you'll be flying in on a Cessna, or maybe a King Air if you're lucky! Don't > forget your caribou repellant, it's practically to the north pole. > According to Wikipedia, international arrivals must come in planes seating > 15 or fewer passengers. It doesn't look like the airport could handle > anything much bigger, anyway. > > http://www.flyowensound.ca/copa/owensound.jpg > > Seriously, seems like an odd place for a conference, although the agenda > does look appealing. What are they thinking? Cheap caribou burgers? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 26 18:03:49 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 11:03:49 -0700 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:49:05PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 05/26/2009 02:38 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > > > Related to something we've discussed: > > > > "Wikipedia drops GNU in favor of Creative Commons license" > > So, can Fedora Docs and Fedora on the whole switch to Creative Commons > SA license from OPL? There doesn't seem to be any real blockers to the > move. If we get consensus on this list to switch from OPL to CC-BY-SA, then I'll take the word to the Board. Not that I think we need approval, per se, but a simple heads up is a good idea. :) Too late to do it for F11, though. We could just queue it up as a feature for F12? As for the rest of the content in the project ... I would think others would accept Docs decision, but I think a general discussion on fedora-advisory-board is the best way to go to ensure we air out any concerns, etc. The OPL has served us very well for a long time, I'm sad to see us move from it, but at this point the writing is clear. We gain a lot by going with a proper CC license. Anyway, sad as I am, I'd be happy to take on this task, if we have consensus. I'll include working with CreativeCommons.org to get us a splash of attention for it, etc. - Karsten, working on an "Opus for the OPL" -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090526/c9069467/attachment.sig> From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue May 26 18:07:50 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 23:37:50 +0530 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4A1C2FF6.3030002@fedoraproject.org> On 05/26/2009 11:33 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:49:05PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> On 05/26/2009 02:38 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: >> >>> Related to something we've discussed: >>> >>> "Wikipedia drops GNU in favor of Creative Commons license" >> >> So, can Fedora Docs and Fedora on the whole switch to Creative Commons >> SA license from OPL? There doesn't seem to be any real blockers to the >> move. > > If we get consensus on this list to switch from OPL to CC-BY-SA, then > I'll take the word to the Board. Not that I think we need approval, > per se, but a simple heads up is a good idea. :) Anyone opposing a license move, please let us know, now. Rahul From eric at christensenplace.us Tue May 26 18:23:27 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:23:27 -0400 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <c5cb00220905261123t620149ffq151678447095936e@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 14:03, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 02:49:05PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> On 05/26/2009 02:38 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: >> >> > Related to something we've discussed: >> > >> > "Wikipedia drops GNU in favor of Creative Commons license" >> >> So, can Fedora Docs and Fedora on the whole switch to Creative Commons >> SA license from OPL? There doesn't seem to be any real blockers to the >> move. > > If we get consensus on this list to switch from OPL to CC-BY-SA, then > I'll take the word to the Board. ?Not that I think we need approval, > per se, but a simple heads up is a good idea. :) > > Too late to do it for F11, though. ?We could just queue it up as a > feature for F12? > > As for the rest of the content in the project ... I would think others > would accept Docs decision, but I think a general discussion on > fedora-advisory-board is the best way to go to ensure we air out any > concerns, etc. > > The OPL has served us very well for a long time, I'm sad to see us > move from it, but at this point the writing is clear. ?We gain a lot > by going with a proper CC license. > > Anyway, sad as I am, I'd be happy to take on this task, if we have > consensus. ?I'll include working with CreativeCommons.org to get us a > splash of attention for it, etc. > > - Karsten, working on an "Opus for the OPL" > -- > Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener > http://quaid.fedorapeople.org > AD0E0C41 > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > WORKSFORME Would this include the wiki in addition to the documents we produce? Eric From bcotton+fedora at gmail.com Tue May 26 18:30:43 2009 From: bcotton+fedora at gmail.com (Ben Cotton) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 14:30:43 -0400 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> > The OPL has served us very well for a long time, I'm sad to see us > move from it, but at this point the writing is clear. ?We gain a lot > by going with a proper CC license. > Pardon my noobness, but what is it that we gain? I don't have any objections to changing per se, but I'd like to know what the argument is before I support it. :-) BC -- Ben Cotton From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue May 26 18:35:54 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 00:05:54 +0530 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> On 05/27/2009 12:00 AM, Ben Cotton wrote: >> The OPL has served us very well for a long time, I'm sad to see us >> move from it, but at this point the writing is clear. We gain a lot >> by going with a proper CC license. >> > Pardon my noobness, but what is it that we gain? I don't have any > objections to changing per se, but I'd like to know what the argument > is before I support it. :-) Discussions starting at https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-April/msg00061.html Short version: CC BY SA is a much more widely used license allowing for more sharing of content and it is better known and understood as well. Rahul From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue May 26 22:47:37 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 18:47:37 -0400 Subject: Wikipedia license change References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org><4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <8EFEAC63774741849E950A12DAF2FB22@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karsten Wade" <kwade at redhat.com> To: <fedora-docs-list at redhat.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 2:03 PM Subject: Re: Wikipedia license change > > > "Wikipedia drops GNU in favor of Creative Commons license" > > > > So, can Fedora Docs and Fedora on the whole switch to Creative Commons > > SA license from OPL? There doesn't seem to be any real blockers to the > > move. > If we get consensus on this list to switch from OPL to CC-BY-SA, then > I'll take the word to the Board. Not that I think we need approval, > per se, but a simple heads up is a good idea. :) [--clip--] > The OPL has served us very well for a long time, I'm sad to see us > move from it, but at this point the writing is clear. We gain a lot > by going with a proper CC license. So, what do we gain by going to CC? What do we loose? I have heard some folks on Planet objecting to CC for some purposes, but I would need to go back and re-read what their problem was and in what context. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 26 19:45:31 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 15:45:31 -0400 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 12:05:54AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 05/27/2009 12:00 AM, Ben Cotton wrote: > >> The OPL has served us very well for a long time, I'm sad to see us > >> move from it, but at this point the writing is clear. We gain a lot > >> by going with a proper CC license. > >> > > Pardon my noobness, but what is it that we gain? I don't have any > > objections to changing per se, but I'd like to know what the argument > > is before I support it. :-) > > Discussions starting at > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-April/msg00061.html > > Short version: CC BY SA is a much more widely used license allowing for > more sharing of content and it is better known and understood as well. Let's make sure we keep our various legal minds roped in. I know that Spot mentioned Red Hat Legal may be very much in favor of going with CC BY-SA, so that may a problem solved before we had it. :-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 26 19:56:28 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 12:56:28 -0700 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 03:45:31PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Let's make sure we keep our various legal minds roped in. I know that > Spot mentioned Red Hat Legal may be very much in favor of going with > CC BY-SA, so that may a problem solved before we had it. :-) Didn't Richard Fontana weigh in directly on the previous discussion? Regardless, one of the things I'd have to do with this task is coordinate with Red Hat's Content Services team, who just did a re-licensing, and make sure we are copacetic. That will require a double-tap from Legal, approving the Red Hat content relicensing as well as the Fedora. I'll make sure it is explicitly covered instead of just implicitly. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090526/30cc0018/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 26 20:01:42 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 13:01:42 -0700 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <8EFEAC63774741849E950A12DAF2FB22@Aidan> References: <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <8EFEAC63774741849E950A12DAF2FB22@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090526200142.GV4398@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 06:47:37PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > So, what do we gain by going to CC? What do we loose? I have heard some > folks on Planet objecting to CC for some purposes, but I would need to go > back and re-read what their problem was and in what context. To make one thing clear, we are really talking about (IMO) the CC BY SA, 3.0 I reckon. This should make sure we don't *lose* any features of the OPL in the switch. Right now the OPL locks us in to a corner where we can only share content with other OPL sources. That would be fine if it were a widely used license, which it is not. The CC BY SA is very widely used. Red Hat Legal weighed in previously that they prefer this license. My mistaken(?) concerns in the past about warranty clauses are all covered. If we make enough noise and a proper cut-off date, we should prevent any problems from anyone who has based documents on the OPL-licensed content. I'm not sure that we will find as much content to draw *in* to Fedora, but we make our work here much more widely relevant. For example, if someone wanted to maintain a brief installation of Fedora article on Wikipedia or their website, they could source as much as needed from a CC BY SA licensed Fedora Installation Guide. The BY assures us that they'll like back to the truly canonical source. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090526/733c4a5f/attachment.sig> From eric at christensenplace.us Tue May 26 20:04:15 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 16:04:15 -0400 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <20090526200142.GV4398@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <8EFEAC63774741849E950A12DAF2FB22@Aidan> <20090526200142.GV4398@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <c5cb00220905261304x38178a30ye957eace0e187948@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 16:01, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 06:47:37PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > >> So, what do we gain by going to CC? ?What do we loose? ?I have heard some >> folks on Planet objecting to CC for some purposes, but I would need to go >> back and re-read what their problem was and in what context. > > To make one thing clear, we are really talking about (IMO) the CC BY > SA, 3.0 I reckon. ?This should make sure we don't *lose* any features > of the OPL in the switch. > > Right now the OPL locks us in to a corner where we can only share > content with other OPL sources. ?That would be fine if it were a > widely used license, which it is not. The CC-BY-SA license says further works would have be shared under the same OR SIMILAR license which would definitely be more flexible for further works. > > The CC BY SA is very widely used. ?Red Hat Legal weighed in previously > that they prefer this license. ?My mistaken(?) concerns in the past > about warranty clauses are all covered. > > If we make enough noise and a proper cut-off date, we should prevent > any problems from anyone who has based documents on the OPL-licensed > content. > > I'm not sure that we will find as much content to draw *in* to Fedora, > but we make our work here much more widely relevant. ?For example, if > someone wanted to maintain a brief installation of Fedora article on > Wikipedia or their website, they could source as much as needed from a > CC BY SA licensed Fedora Installation Guide. ?The BY assures us that > they'll like back to the truly canonical source. > > - Karsten +1 from me. From tcallawa at redhat.com Tue May 26 21:29:20 2009 From: tcallawa at redhat.com (Tom "spot" Callaway) Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 17:29:20 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4A1C5F30.7080000@redhat.com> On 05/26/2009 03:56 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 03:45:31PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > >> Let's make sure we keep our various legal minds roped in. I know that >> Spot mentioned Red Hat Legal may be very much in favor of going with >> CC BY-SA, so that may a problem solved before we had it. :-) > > Didn't Richard Fontana weigh in directly on the previous discussion? > > Regardless, one of the things I'd have to do with this task is > coordinate with Red Hat's Content Services team, who just did a > re-licensing, and make sure we are copacetic. That will require a > double-tap from Legal, approving the Red Hat content relicensing as > well as the Fedora. I'll make sure it is explicitly covered instead > of just implicitly. I know Richard reads fedora-legal-list, so I'll wait for him to chime in, but in the past, he's expressed that he would very much like for us to move the wiki from OPL to CC-BY-SA. ~spot From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed May 27 01:24:50 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 06:54:50 +0530 Subject: Fedora 11 release note update Message-ID: <4A1C9662.5010405@fedoraproject.org> Hi Sorry. I haven't followed the previous conversations on this but just wanted to highlight that any future updates should incorporate information from https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_11_FAQ if you haven't already done that. Also a note on how to create a Xorg configuration file if one doesn't exist should be included as well. Rahul From oglesbyzm at gmail.com Wed May 27 03:17:06 2009 From: oglesbyzm at gmail.com (Zach Oglesby) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 05:17:06 +0200 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <20090526200142.GV4398@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <8EFEAC63774741849E950A12DAF2FB22@Aidan> <20090526200142.GV4398@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <a36e24fd0905262017n58cc7f18h62ba93a1eae35e8e@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 10:01 PM, Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com> wrote: > If we make enough noise and a proper cut-off date, we should prevent > any problems from anyone who has based documents on the OPL-licensed > content. This is the only area I see an issue, but lots of publication should keep that to a very manageable problem. Blog posts and big horns or whatever we need. Is the OPL used by very many people anymore anyway? Even the people that wrote it recomend using a CC license [1]. I am all for the move. [1]: http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/329 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090527/96ba2417/attachment.htm> From eric at christensenplace.us Wed May 27 16:10:31 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 12:10:31 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder Message-ID: <1243440631.3309.110.camel@localhost.localdomain> REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090527/a59c9060/attachment.sig> From satya.komaragiri at gmail.com Wed May 27 18:06:00 2009 From: satya.komaragiri at gmail.com (satya komaragiri) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 23:36:00 +0530 Subject: [Fwd: Re: [Fwd: Re: Proposal for Implementing a Docbook Editor]] In-Reply-To: <4A1A23B2.70307@redhat.com> References: <612251041.2725171242995912855.JavaMail.root@zmail04.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <4A19E7AD.9010707@redhat.com> <4A19FBC5.7090500@fedoraproject.org> <4A19FCC4.5040901@redhat.com> <4A19FE48.2070504@fedoraproject.org> <4A1A23B2.70307@redhat.com> Message-ID: <146c63b10905271106p56d5f2bfn5018a681c45669a1@mail.gmail.com> Hello, The aforementioned Wiki page has been created at [1]. Just to document the entire conversation, I have added the suggestions separately (in addition to incorporating them in [1]) in the talk page[2]. Please have a look at it. Looking forward to more suggestions. Regards, Satya [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocBook_Editor [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:DocBook_Editor p.s. Added CC to Nandeep Mali (lead Beacon devel) From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 28 00:47:06 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 17:47:06 -0700 Subject: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <a36e24fd0905262017n58cc7f18h62ba93a1eae35e8e@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <8EFEAC63774741849E950A12DAF2FB22@Aidan> <20090526200142.GV4398@calliope.phig.org> <a36e24fd0905262017n58cc7f18h62ba93a1eae35e8e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090528004706.GJ4333@calliope.phig.org> On Wed, May 27, 2009 at 05:17:06AM +0200, Zach Oglesby wrote: > > Is the OPL used by very many people anymore anyway? Even the people that > wrote it recomend using a CC license [1]. I am all for the move. > > [1]: http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/329 Wow, that was a cogent argument. I'd heard in passing of this statement, and it's a bit shaming to see it's just a shade over two years old. 'Bout time we caught up! Seems like we have a consensus. In the meeting we just assigned these: quaid => legal + content services + bug reports to the Publican Fedora package (when that happens) ianweller=> will talk to Creative Commons and work with Jack + Fedora Marketing ke4qqq => will make/own the feature page cheers - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090527/781384f8/attachment.sig> From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu May 28 01:41:15 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 21:41:15 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting Log 2009-05-27 Message-ID: <E2CAA731343B496086BDABFEBF16BA89@Aidan> **** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 27 19:45:01 2009 May 27 20:00:16 <Sparks> <meeting id="Docs Project"> May 27 20:00:16 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting May 27 20:00:23 <Sparks> Roll Call! May 27 20:00:23 * Sparks is here May 27 20:00:33 * jjmcd is napping May 27 20:00:41 * bcotton is present May 27 20:00:44 * joat is here in spirit May 27 20:00:54 * rudi is here May 27 20:01:04 * danielsmw is here May 27 20:01:11 <ianweller> meow May 27 20:01:54 * daMaestro has quit ("Leaving") May 27 20:02:02 * laubersm (n=Susan at fedora/laubersm) has joined #fedora-meeting May 27 20:02:10 * Sparks waits for a few more to trickle in May 27 20:02:23 <Sparks> jjmcd: Can you handle the log for tonight, please? May 27 20:02:25 * ianweller turns up the faucet May 27 20:02:26 * laubersm wanders by May 27 20:02:54 <jjmcd> let me check, not sure I have the right client May 27 20:03:39 * dychen_ (n=dingyich at d122-109-13-56.rdl15.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #fedora-meeting May 27 20:03:40 <jjmcd> looks good May 27 20:03:48 <Sparks> jjmcd: Cool... thanks May 27 20:03:55 * Sparks wonders where quaid is May 27 20:04:13 <jjmcd> ke4qqq will need to remind me how to convert it after the meeting May 27 20:04:24 <ianweller> jjmcd: irclog2html -s mediawiki May 27 20:04:54 <Sparks> Okay, we've got a bunch of stuff to get through tonight so let's get going... May 27 20:04:56 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - [[FAD_SELF | FAD @ Self]] May 27 20:05:06 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Shameless plug? May 27 20:05:17 <jjmcd> Oh, he's in SantaCruz May 27 20:05:17 * ianweller has changed the topic to: Docs Project - [[FAD SELF|Fedora Activity Day @ SELF]] May 27 20:05:23 <jjmcd> says he'll be late May 27 20:05:27 <ianweller> no underscores ^_^ May 27 20:05:29 * ianweller stops breaking things May 27 20:05:58 * Sparks wonders where ke4qqq is May 27 20:06:08 <ianweller> he was here earlier, was talking with him in -ambassadors May 27 20:06:13 <Sparks> okay... Who is planning on being @ SELF and the FAD? May 27 20:06:17 * danielsmw is May 27 20:06:18 * ianweller May 27 20:06:37 * joat May 27 20:07:10 <Sparks> and I'll be there May 27 20:08:16 <danielsmw> Sparks: anything specifically to work on at the FAD? Or figure that out when we get there? May 27 20:08:20 <Sparks> I think we'll have remote capabilities there as well. May 27 20:08:58 <Sparks> danielsmw: There are things to talk about. May 27 20:09:14 * ke4qqq is here but late May 27 20:09:41 <danielsmw> But just in time to make your plug. May 27 20:10:00 <Sparks> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF#Activities May 27 20:10:28 * jjmcd would like to see the FAD crowd figure out the answer to the ultimate question of language codes, publican and everything May 27 20:10:39 <ke4qqq> jjmcd: 42 May 27 20:10:56 * ke4qqq checks that off the list May 27 20:11:16 <jjmcd> You must have had your towel with you the other day May 27 20:11:24 <ianweller> jjmcd: ^_^ May 27 20:11:32 <Sparks> ke4qqq: What capabilities are we going to have for remoting folks? May 27 20:11:46 <Sparks> I can bring a phone for Talk access May 27 20:11:58 <ianweller> i was planning on bringing my phone too May 27 20:12:01 <ke4qqq> we'll have a grandstream sip phone May 27 20:12:03 <ianweller> if security doesn't have a hissy fit May 27 20:12:11 <ke4qqq> security won't May 27 20:12:23 <ricky> I've brought hard drives through without having any security problems May 27 20:12:24 <ke4qqq> I've flown with mine May 27 20:12:28 <ianweller> ke4qqq: soh ave i May 27 20:12:33 * dychen_ has quit ("Ex-Chat") May 27 20:12:35 <ianweller> ke4qqq: they just kinda looked at me oddly ;) but it was fine May 27 20:13:01 <ke4qqq> we also have irc and gobby May 27 20:13:11 <ianweller> and we can borrow a megaphone May 27 20:14:07 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Anything we need to discuss? May 27 20:14:45 <ke4qqq> nothing aside from getting as many people to attend as possible - hopefully recruiting one or two new ones the day of SELF and adding to the activities list May 27 20:14:48 * radsy (n=irc at nat/redhat/x-a97825f39214264b) has joined #fedora-meeting May 27 20:15:19 <Sparks> cool. May 27 20:15:23 <Sparks> anyone have any questions? May 27 20:15:44 <Sparks> okay... moving on... May 27 20:15:45 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - New [http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. <--quaid May 27 20:16:09 <Sparks> So... there have been discussions on IRC and on the list about changing our license from OPL to CC-BY-SA. May 27 20:16:22 <Sparks> RHLegal have said that they are cool with this... May 27 20:16:41 <Sparks> and it looks like the BY-SA version is very similar to the OPL... May 27 20:17:01 <Sparks> EXCEPT that it allows "similar" downstream licenses to be used... May 27 20:17:06 <jjmcd> So if its similar, why change May 27 20:17:07 <ianweller> there's been general consensus on the list but i think setting up a poll would be the safest way to go about this May 27 20:17:09 <Sparks> instead of mandating that it must be OPL. May 27 20:17:24 <Sparks> ianweller: who are we polling? May 27 20:17:24 <ianweller> jjmcd: allows more freedom for downstream May 27 20:17:30 <ianweller> Sparks: docs May 27 20:17:31 <ke4qqq> my concern is where 'similar' might be more restrictive. May 27 20:17:38 <Sparks> ianweller who is docs? May 27 20:17:44 <ianweller> Sparks: fas group May 27 20:17:55 <Sparks> ianweller: which is borked... but that's another topic May 27 20:17:58 <ianweller> hehe May 27 20:18:02 <ke4qqq> ianweller: voting??? ugghh May 27 20:18:22 <jjmcd> Well, probably four people will vote and you already know their answer May 27 20:18:25 * mchua has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) May 27 20:18:31 <Sparks> Right now the CC licenses are more widely known and understood... a standard if you will May 27 20:18:59 <Sparks> but it is very similar to what we are using now. May 27 20:19:17 <ke4qqq> Sparks: you are the appointed leader - if you feel you have consensus move forward with it. That's one thing we lost with fdsco, ability for a small group to make decisions May 27 20:19:22 <ianweller> the CC licenses are much more standard and we might even be able to get a few contributors with the buzz about the license change. May 27 20:19:33 <jjmcd> is this downstream business the only difference? May 27 20:20:05 <ianweller> if we do it well we can get featured on the front page of the CC website, perhaps May 27 20:20:40 <ke4qqq> so another concern is getting upstaged by rh docs doing the same move May 27 20:20:56 <ke4qqq> be nice if we could stage them by a month or so. May 27 20:21:30 <ke4qqq> ie, fedora makes the move in June and RH docs waits til July May 27 20:21:39 <Sparks> the CC license are far more accepted and understood May 27 20:21:44 <ianweller> +1 ke4qqq May 27 20:22:15 <Sparks> CC licenses have actually be integrated into some US laws May 27 20:23:03 <ianweller> Sparks: as ke4qqq said you're the leader... do we have consensus? May 27 20:23:07 <ianweller> do we need to poll the list more? May 27 20:23:12 <ianweller> do we need to hit ianweller for suggesting a poll? May 27 20:23:15 * fbijlsma has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) May 27 20:23:20 <ke4qqq> yes to hitting you May 27 20:23:31 <ke4qqq> I'll be selling tickets for that at FAD May 27 20:23:32 <joat> is a reason needed? May 27 20:23:37 <Sparks> Well, I guess my concern is... does anyone have any problems/concerns with the license change? May 27 20:23:41 <laubersm> I didn't see the list email... but I am behind May 27 20:23:43 <ianweller> ke4qqq: oh so *that's* how you're paying for me to go May 27 20:23:46 <laubersm> I am cool with CC May 27 20:23:51 * dychen_ (n=dingyich at d122-109-13-56.rdl15.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined #fedora-meeting May 27 20:23:59 <ke4qqq> no one has voiced any opposition May 27 20:24:02 <laubersm> and I don't know much about what we are using so I do not really know the differences May 27 20:24:12 <ke4qqq> I would like us to do some prep before we announce. May 27 20:24:25 <ianweller> i would like us to talk to CC and get some hype going. May 27 20:24:31 <ianweller> they'd love to, they've been doing it for lots of sites May 27 20:24:39 <ke4qqq> ie, get marketing involved in the announcement - have a document explaining the differences and benefits and how it makes us more free May 27 20:24:51 * ianweller can ping somebody in CC's irc channel if need be May 27 20:24:57 <Sparks> ke4qqq: well, jjmcd keeps asking why May 27 20:25:21 <ke4qqq> thats not opposition though May 27 20:25:21 * jjmcd has no problem, just wants to make sure we understand what we are doing May 27 20:25:38 * jjmcd has a hard time getting excited about this sort of thing May 27 20:25:59 <Sparks> :) May 27 20:26:34 <jjmcd> Much easier to get worked up over whether it makes sense to virtualize a class May 27 20:26:41 <Sparks> Okay... I'm going to let quaid move forward on this. I think we want to run the specifics by RHLegal and let them give us a thumbs up May 27 20:26:59 * pfrields2 (n=pfrields at fedora/stickster) has joined #fedora-meeting May 27 20:27:09 <ke4qqq> and pick a specific license May 27 20:27:27 <rudi> Sparks -- when legal comes up with a suitable licence text, we'll need to incorporate that into the Fedora brand package for Publican... May 27 20:27:27 <jjmcd> The whole bit about getting marketing involved ahead of time - well placed leaks etc. seems like a good move May 27 20:27:49 <Sparks> rudi: well... most of that is already incorporated in the CC license May 27 20:28:00 <ke4qqq> who is the docs fwn beat writer? May 27 20:28:14 <rudi> ie, to replace https://fedorahosted.org/publican/browser/trunk/publican-fedora/en-US/Legal_Notice.xml May 27 20:28:25 <Sparks> rudi: Yes May 27 20:29:00 <Sparks> Okay... Anything else on this topic? May 27 20:29:18 <ke4qqq> we need to May 27 20:29:19 * pfrields2 comes in late May 27 20:29:21 <ke4qqq> create a feature page May 27 20:29:31 <jjmcd> Enjoy your cake? May 27 20:29:38 * rayvd has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) May 27 20:29:47 <Sparks> ke4qqq: This will more than likely affect F12 releases May 27 20:29:50 <Sparks> ke4qqq: but yes May 27 20:30:00 <Sparks> pfrields2: I'm sorry, do I know you? May 27 20:30:01 <ke4qqq> right that's what I am talking about May 27 20:30:10 <pfrields2> Just some random guy.... May 27 20:30:14 <Sparks> ke4qqq: So was that you volunteering? May 27 20:30:45 <jjmcd> ke4qqq already has the practice May 27 20:30:49 <ke4qqq> yeah I can do that May 27 20:30:51 <ke4qqq> I do? May 27 20:30:54 <Sparks> Cool May 27 20:31:10 <jjmcd> I was thinking about the fwn beat May 27 20:31:14 <ke4qqq> I will wait til after we make noise though May 27 20:31:33 <ke4qqq> and this should all be post f12 May 27 20:31:36 <ke4qqq> IMO May 27 20:31:49 <pfrields2> Why do we need to wait until after F12? May 27 20:31:58 <jjmcd> I thought it was going to be an F12 feature May 27 20:32:12 <ke4qqq> sorry meant f11 May 27 20:32:23 <jjmcd> yeah May 27 20:32:24 <pfrields2> Ah, okey doke May 27 20:32:34 <Sparks> individual guides should change over as necessary May 27 20:32:36 <pfrields2> When we think ahead, we *really* think ahead ;-) May 27 20:32:44 <ke4qqq> lol yeah May 27 20:32:49 * quaid arrives tardy, sry May 27 20:33:04 <ke4qqq> it is ok quaid we assigned you work May 27 20:33:04 <jjmcd> back from marketing farmers, eh? May 27 20:33:05 <ke4qqq> :) May 27 20:33:10 <Sparks> quaid: Anything you want to add on the licensing discussion? May 27 20:33:23 <pfrields2> Sorry I missed the background -- my home server that logs the conversations is wedged right now May 27 20:33:37 <quaid> nothing to add May 27 20:33:39 <pfrields2> What are the action items, and who's responsible for them? May 27 20:34:10 <Sparks> quaid: So we like the idea... what's next? May 27 20:34:12 <ke4qqq> pfrields2: quaid: to give you a quick rundown May 27 20:34:22 <pfrields2> ke4qqq: Thanks :-) May 27 20:34:55 <ke4qqq> we want to coordinate with marketing, and hopefully CC after getting a specific instance of the cc-by-sa chosen by rhlegal May 27 20:35:22 <ke4qqq> and hopefully work to keep rh docs from moving to the same license by at least a month so fp.o gets some fame separate from RH May 27 20:35:39 <ke4qqq> and we are going to let quaid drive the process May 27 20:35:51 <ke4qqq> since there is so much interaction with rhlegal and ecs May 27 20:36:07 <ke4qqq> ohhh and I'm responsible for the feature page May 27 20:36:18 * ianweller can take care of talking to CC May 27 20:36:32 * quaid just read his buffer May 27 20:36:48 <quaid> oh, good, feature sounds fine May 27 20:37:16 <pfrields2> And we're talking to CC with the specific purpose of having them spread the news that the Fedora Project is adopting a CC license for docs and wiki? May 27 20:37:17 <quaid> ianweller: ok, work with themayor because he knows cats there, too, and that way it gets on the Marketing agenda May 27 20:37:24 <quaid> pfrields2: yeppers May 27 20:37:31 <ke4qqq> and essentially we are going to document how this makes us more free May 27 20:37:47 <quaid> hmm, going to need to establish that as a fact, that's for sure :) May 27 20:38:24 <quaid> jjmcd: did you want to cover the why here for the record? May 27 20:38:35 <quaid> otherwise, I think what was said on list is a fairly good set of reasons May 27 20:38:40 <jjmcd> Why? Downstream ;-) May 27 20:38:58 <jjmcd> I think we do need to move fairly quickly tho May 27 20:39:12 <jjmcd> seems like there was some date in the fall when all this becomes a lot hader May 27 20:39:34 <quaid> hmm, OK May 27 20:39:43 <quaid> it's too late for the F11 release packages May 27 20:39:48 <quaid> right? May 27 20:39:49 <jjmcd> As I understand it, this makes it easier for folks who don't have the identical license to use our stuff May 27 20:39:52 <pfrields2> jjmcd: *: OPL forces downstream to use OPL only, where CC-BY-SA allows you to use any like-termed license, right? May 27 20:40:02 <jjmcd> That is my understanding May 27 20:40:13 * pfrields2 is sure there's a bunch of legal stuff there that Mr. Fontana will help us with. May 27 20:40:42 <ianweller> quaid: wayyyyyy too late for F11, yeah May 27 20:40:45 <ke4qqq> yeah I think we want Fontana to create the bullet point of the improvments May 27 20:40:55 <jjmcd> quaid, the current opl allows us to change to cc easily, up until some date I think sept May 27 20:41:09 <pfrields2> jjmcd: ? May 27 20:41:12 <ianweller> hmm? May 27 20:41:15 <pfrields2> Are you sure you're not thinking of the GNU FDL? May 27 20:41:31 <pfrields2> That's a very different license, and they engineered some leeway for switching IIRC. May 27 20:41:38 <ianweller> they did, for wikipedia. May 27 20:41:41 <pfrields2> Right. May 27 20:41:41 <jjmcd> I thought it was OPL, but then, I don't really get all geeked by this legal stuff May 27 20:42:01 <quaid> yeah, that's GFDL May 27 20:42:05 <quaid> http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/329 May 27 20:42:20 <quaid> that is a fairly cogent argument about why to use the CC from the author of the OPL. May 27 20:42:30 <quaid> zoglesby++ for the reference :) May 27 20:42:33 <ianweller> well, what more do we need then :) May 27 20:42:37 <pfrields2> Superb. May 27 20:42:37 <Jeff_S> quaid: thanks, I was just looking for that post! :) May 27 20:42:44 * linuxguru (n=linuxgur at unaffiliated/linuxguru) has joined #fedora-meeting May 27 20:43:15 <quaid> ok, then, I think we have all the parts assigned, etc. May 27 20:43:24 <Sparks> cool May 27 20:43:31 <Sparks> quaid: let me know if I can help you with this May 27 20:43:38 <quaid> I've got the legal + content services + bug reports to the publican Fedora package (when that happens) May 27 20:43:54 <quaid> ianweller will talk to CC and work with themayor on Marketing crossover May 27 20:44:00 <quaid> ke4qqq has the feature page May 27 20:44:02 <quaid> anything else? May 27 20:44:06 <quaid> if not, then away we go ... May 27 20:44:24 <Sparks> +1 May 27 20:44:33 * ianweller watches quaid teleport away, molecule by molecule May 27 20:44:44 <Sparks> sparkly May 27 20:44:52 <Sparks> okay... anything else on this topic? May 27 20:44:56 <ianweller> no May 27 20:45:46 * quaid done May 27 20:45:49 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - [[Release_Announcement_for_F11 | Release Announcement]] May 27 20:45:50 <pfrields2> disco May 27 20:45:55 <Sparks> groovy May 27 20:46:00 * quaid emails that result to the list, btw May 27 20:46:06 <Sparks> quaid: Thanks May 27 20:46:29 <Sparks> Okay... so I think the announcement is ready to go. May 27 20:46:36 <Sparks> Just need final eyes on it May 27 20:47:07 * pfrields2 has quit ("Quit") May 27 20:47:12 <quaid> ruh roh May 27 20:47:17 <quaid> is he going to come back? May 27 20:47:20 <jjmcd> Looks pretty good. Most of ianweller's edits were good catches, one or two I would noodle on a bit May 27 20:47:40 * quaid reloads and gives a last read May 27 20:47:49 <ianweller> there's a reason the newspaper staff at my school put me on as copy editor May 27 20:47:52 <ianweller> ;) May 27 20:47:57 <quaid> oooh, didn't know that May 27 20:48:01 * quaid makes a mental note May 27 20:48:41 <jjmcd> things like its and it's I tend to gloss over, tough to catch those. The commas, tho, can't believe those didn't junp out at me May 27 20:48:44 * stickster_afk is now known as stickster May 27 20:48:48 * stickster is now known as stickster_afk May 27 20:49:11 <ianweller> jjmcd: i didn't focus too much on the commas May 27 20:49:18 <ianweller> i should do another read-through to double check May 27 20:49:22 <jjmcd> you caught a few blatant ones May 27 20:49:27 <ianweller> yeah May 27 20:49:30 <stickster_afk> I'm here May 27 20:49:41 <jjmcd> we thought you ODed on cake May 27 20:49:42 <stickster_afk> Switched systems and this one took a while to get past the lag May 27 20:49:46 * stickster_afk is now known as stickster May 27 20:49:54 <ianweller> the cake is a lie May 27 20:50:21 <Sparks> stickster: I guess we need your thumbs up on it? May 27 20:50:26 * jjmcd notices stickster didn't bring us any May 27 20:50:47 <stickster> Hm, there seem to be some repeated adverbs... May 27 20:50:58 <ke4qqq> ohhh yeah - guess blessing of Fedora Board would be nice May 27 20:51:07 <stickster> ke4qqq: Nah, this one I can handle on my own. May 27 20:51:16 <ke4qqq> ohhhh ignore me - missed the jump to release announcement May 27 20:51:32 <stickster> I think the last paragraphs need a little more meat May 27 20:51:54 <jjmcd> Zebra or gazelle? May 27 20:51:58 <stickster> Just to keep this story setup rolling, and to keep it from becoming simply a list of features May 27 20:52:05 <stickster> jjmcd: Dunno, it all tastes like chicken to me May 27 20:52:17 <stickster> I'll play with it a bit May 27 20:52:28 * stickster is a harsh creative writing teacher, apparently May 27 20:53:41 <stickster> go ahead May 27 20:54:24 <Sparks> Okay... I'll put this in stickster's hands and follow up with him later. This has to be out the door by Friday May 27 20:54:40 <Sparks> Anything else on this topic? May 27 20:55:04 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd May 27 20:55:08 <Sparks> jjmcd: Where are we? May 27 20:55:22 <jjmcd> I just did most of a test build, May 27 20:55:38 <quaid> jjmcd++ May 27 20:55:44 <jjmcd> git is preventing me from doing it all automatically as I would like - I need to poke in the middle a bit May 27 20:55:55 <jjmcd> But I didn't get done b4 meeting May 27 20:56:17 <jjmcd> I need to check on ohhh, it sidappeared May 27 20:56:41 <jjmcd> There was something there that I wasn't sure about but perhaps volume - need to check May 27 20:56:45 <ianweller> < jjmcd> my machine is on fire, this can't be good May 27 20:56:46 <ianweller> ;) May 27 20:56:46 <jjmcd> but i think it is in there May 27 20:57:06 <jjmcd> Tell ya what, that msgmerge sure puts it to work May 27 20:57:18 <ianweller> mmhmm May 27 20:57:25 <jjmcd> Hopefully I'll do a test install yet tonight May 27 20:57:55 <jjmcd> I've lost track of what we need when tho May 27 20:58:06 <Sparks> We need to button it all up, now. May 27 20:58:21 <jjmcd> So, RPM and web both? May 27 20:58:25 <stickster> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html May 27 20:58:53 <Sparks> jjmcd: I think so May 27 20:59:38 <jjmcd> OK, we'll just do it then May 27 20:59:41 <Sparks> jjmcd: Also, were you able to copy the files over from /f11preview to /f11 on docs.fp.o? May 27 21:00:08 <jjmcd> No, I was working on the build. You want the preview on the web? I thought that;s where the latest went May 27 21:00:33 <Sparks> It's already on the web May 27 21:00:54 <jjmcd> yes, but I didn't think we wanted to call the preview the GA May 27 21:01:00 <ke4qqq> jjmcd: so the background there is that QA complained about pointing people to a location that isn't where the release notes will be at release May 27 21:01:19 <stickster> ke4qqq: exactly May 27 21:01:21 <ke4qqq> ie, they point people to f11preview now, and will have to change that May 27 21:01:21 <Sparks> but we should use /f# and not anything else so other people can plan their links May 27 21:01:31 <jjmcd> OK, so you want to have something there, even if it will change in a day or so May 27 21:01:37 <Sparks> yes May 27 21:01:45 <jjmcd> K, got that May 27 21:01:51 <Sparks> jjmcd: do the quaid mantra... release early, release often May 27 21:01:55 * spoleeba has quit ("Leaving") May 27 21:01:58 <ke4qqq> and that needs to be codified as our practices May 27 21:01:58 <jjmcd> :-) May 27 21:01:58 <stickster> jjmcd: Sparks: I can probably do the CVS moving there. CVS sucks for this, because there's no real "move" command May 27 21:02:09 <stickster> But it sounds like jjmcd has his hands full May 27 21:02:13 <jjmcd> cool that would help May 27 21:02:26 <jjmcd> That way I can work on the final instead of pissing with cvs May 27 21:02:42 <Sparks> stickster: Yeah, I was going to do it but the only thing I would be able to do is download everything, copy it over, and the commit it May 27 21:02:59 <stickster> Sparks: Well, that's pretty much the *only* way to do it afaik. May 27 21:03:02 <Sparks> which I can do... May 27 21:03:08 <jjmcd> Sparks: there is a php that needs editing, too May 27 21:03:21 <stickster> You have to 'cp' locally, then 'cvs add' all the new stuff, and 'cvs rm' all the old stuff May 27 21:03:34 <Sparks> jjmcd: yes... and we were going to talk to infra about doing a redirect May 27 21:03:34 <stickster> Also, we need Infrastructure to make a redirect for f11preview -> f11 there. May 27 21:03:39 <stickster> *jinx! May 27 21:03:44 <jjmcd> ahhhh good plan May 27 21:03:45 <Sparks> ha! May 27 21:03:52 <Sparks> yeah, what stickster said May 27 21:05:00 * ricky would be happy to get that after dinner :-) May 27 21:05:36 <stickster> Sparks: jjmcd: ke4qqq: I think we should do the same with that 'f10preview' folder -- nix it and redirect or rewrite to f10/. May 27 21:05:37 <Sparks> stickster: so you are going to move the files? May 27 21:05:39 <stickster> Sparks: Yes May 27 21:05:44 <Sparks> yes May 27 21:05:46 <Sparks> okay, thanks May 27 21:05:58 <stickster> The f10preview is easier, I'm just going to nuke it after the redirect exists. May 27 21:06:07 <ke4qqq> yes - but better question - how do codify this so that we don't repeat the same thing w/ f12 May 27 21:06:23 <stickster> ke4qqq: That sounds like a perfect job for Sparks :-) May 27 21:06:34 <jjmcd> will it be the same if we have zikula? May 27 21:06:49 <stickster> jjmcd: Apples to oranges, really. May 27 21:07:03 <ke4qqq> but the principle is the same May 27 21:07:07 <ke4qqq> just diff. mechanism May 27 21:07:08 <stickster> And certainly with Zikula publishing and moving content is easier. May 27 21:07:14 <jjmcd> I assume 12 will be a while new experience May 27 21:07:21 <jjmcd> s/while/whole May 27 21:07:24 <Sparks> Yeah, I'll work on that May 27 21:07:30 <stickster> No matter what you guys use, you'll want to have your processes available for new people to learn. May 27 21:07:39 <jjmcd> yep May 27 21:07:54 <jjmcd> bcotton is probably wondering what we are going on about May 27 21:08:18 * bcotton is understanding about 40% of what's going on :-) May 27 21:08:45 <stickster> bcotton: Essentially, we have docs published right now, at a URL that we really don't want May 27 21:09:11 * ke4qqq needs to step away for a bit May 27 21:09:15 <stickster> So we're just discussing how to (1) move them, (2) make sure the public that clicks on that old URL gets sent to the new content, and (3) we don't do it again :-) May 27 21:09:58 <bcotton> so i guess my question would be why do we have them in a place we dont want May 27 21:10:22 <Sparks> because no one wrote the standard on how to do it... until tonight May 27 21:10:35 <bcotton> ah, well that makes sense then :-) May 27 21:10:39 <stickster> bcotton: The rule with open source is, it's OK to make a mistake May 27 21:10:49 <stickster> As long as you are open about it, and fix it :-) May 27 21:10:51 <jjmcd> And we are the experts May 27 21:10:55 <jjmcd> at making mistakes May 27 21:11:03 <stickster> Fail faster, recover faster! May 27 21:11:41 <bcotton> the only way to learn is to break things and have to get them working again May 27 21:12:23 * Sparks notes a commit for /f11 has occurred May 27 21:12:34 <stickster> All right, get ready for a mail storm to fedora-docs-commits! May 27 21:12:55 <Sparks> Yikes May 27 21:13:11 * Sparks is glad those messages go directly into a folder that I never look at May 27 21:13:19 * jjmcd has to write some tickets against that sometime May 27 21:13:38 <jjmcd> It can be real hard to figure out what is getting committed May 27 21:13:43 <stickster> OK, I'm going to do all the 'cvs add' stuff now. May 27 21:13:47 <stickster> Then commit. May 27 21:14:03 <stickster> We'll do the 'cvs rm' on f11preview/ *after* we get the redirect/rewrite stuff done from Infrastructure. May 27 21:14:15 <stickster> That way there's no point where URLs will break for anyone May 27 21:14:30 <Sparks> stickster: Okay. I'll file a ticket as soon as it's there May 27 21:14:35 * quaid has to check out, later May 27 21:14:41 <Sparks> quaid: see ya May 27 21:14:47 <stickster> Sparks: super May 27 21:17:23 <Sparks> Okay... anything else? May 27 21:19:23 <jjmcd> bcotton, you might find http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_US/ch-publishing.html interesting May 27 21:19:43 * stickster all good May 27 21:20:01 <bcotton> jjmcd, thanks i'll look that over tonight May 27 21:20:53 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - All other business May 27 21:20:57 <Sparks> Anyone have anything else? May 27 21:21:55 * bcotton has nothing May 27 21:22:09 <Sparks> 5 May 27 21:22:11 <Sparks> 4 May 27 21:22:16 <Sparks> 3 May 27 21:22:19 <Sparks> 2 May 27 21:22:21 <Sparks> 1 May 27 21:22:24 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming! May 27 21:22:24 <Sparks> </meeting> May 27 21:22:24 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Channel is used by various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in #fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel for meeting schedule **** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 27 21:24:20 2009 From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 28 01:23:17 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 21:23:17 -0400 Subject: Redirect needed for docs.fp.o Message-ID: <20090528012317.GA3620@localhost.localdomain> Could I ask someone to set up a rewrite rule or a redirect that would send people from: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11preview to: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11 And from: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10preview to: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10 I'm not the expert but I think what we need is a rewrite, since there are a ton of subdirectories and files under there. The /f10 content is pre-existing, and essentially we're just sending people away from preview content to the final content. In the /f11 case it's the same, but I've copied the preview content and the Docs team will simply replace the preview content with the final content shortly for release day. We're doing this because QA noted, wisely, that the way things stand right now, they have to change some links in a release-day rain dance to make sure people are looking at the right content. Better that the link always point to a single location and that the content update. Our Docs crew is relatively new at this and out of an abundance of caution they chose to keep the preview docs separated. In the future everyone agreed there should be a procedure of treating these directories like branches, with no need for 'f12beta' or 'f12preview'. Eric Christensen will file a ticket to support this request, as soon as I get the CVS stuff done to support it. Did I mention how hard it is to use CVS now that I use git regularly? ;-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From rfontana at redhat.com Thu May 28 14:46:00 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 10:46:00 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <4A1C5F30.7080000@redhat.com> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1C5F30.7080000@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090528104600.125a9ceb@calliope> On Tue, 26 May 2009 17:29:20 -0400 "Tom \"spot\" Callaway" <tcallawa at redhat.com> wrote: > I know Richard reads fedora-legal-list, so I'll wait for him to chime > in, but in the past, he's expressed that he would very much like for > us to move the wiki from OPL to CC-BY-SA. Such a decision should be made by Fedora qua Fedora, consistent with Fedora's licensing guidelines and general rationality (which is true of the current situation with the use of the OPL and would be true if the license of choice were CC-BY-SA instead). FWIW, my personal view is that switching from OPL to CC-BY-SA makes a lot of sense. In my opinion, the OPL is now a fairly dated license with some flaws. That alone isn't a reason not to use it, for a content author who happens to like it, but the availability of CC-BY-SA shows that there is a license with the same desirable policies (from Fedora's perspective) that is the result of more careful legal drafting. As others have pointed out, CC-BY-SA is today a more widely used license, has a track record of responsible revisions, and the author of the OPL himself would seem to be in favor of OPL users moving on to CC licenses. I've heard one or two people in the Fedora docs community say that CC-BY-SA permits combination, or relicensing, under a broad set of licenses with similar policies including the OPL. That is actually not correct (at least for version 3.0 of CC-BY-SA). CC-BY-SA 3.0 says: You may Distribute or Publicly Perform an Adaptation only under the terms of: (i) this License; (ii) a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License; (iii) a Creative Commons jurisdiction license (either this or a later license version) that contains the same License Elements as this License (e.g., Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 US)); (iv) a Creative Commons Compatible License. A "Creative Commons Compatible License" is defined as a license that is listed at http://creativecommons.org/compatiblelicenses that has been approved by Creative Commons as being essentially equivalent to this License, including, at a minimum, because that license: (i) contains terms that have the same purpose, meaning and effect as the License Elements of this License; and, (ii) explicitly permits the relicensing of adaptations of works made available under that license under this License or a Creative Commons jurisdiction license with the same License Elements as this License. However, http://creativecommons.org/compatiblelicenses says that "to date, Creative Commons has not approved any licenses for compatibility", and I don't think the OPL would meet the given standard anyway. -- Richard E. Fontana Open Source Licensing and Patent Counsel Red Hat, Inc. From stickster at gmail.com Thu May 28 16:17:53 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 12:17:53 -0400 Subject: Release announcement revisions Message-ID: <20090528161753.GA8860@localhost.localdomain> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 I made some more revisions to the new draft. Could people take a look and give me a thumbs-up/thumbs-down? I dropped some of the features because the quantity made it difficult to come up with a fun story around them. A good problem to have, don't you think? :-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Thu May 28 19:50:32 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:50:32 -0400 Subject: Release announcement revisions In-Reply-To: <20090528161753.GA8860@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090528161753.GA8860@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <c5cb00220905281250u18c733e3lc6297507bb0593ef@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 12:17, Paul W. Frields <stickster at gmail.com> wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 > > I made some more revisions to the new draft. ?Could people take a look > and give me a thumbs-up/thumbs-down? ?I dropped some of the features > because the quantity made it difficult to come up with a fun story > around them. ?A good problem to have, don't you think? ?:-) > > -- > Paul W. Frields ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://paul.frields.org/ > ?gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 ?5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > ?http://redhat.com/ ? - ?- ?- ?- ? http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > ?irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug +1 I did add the link to the release notes at the bottom. From eric at christensenplace.us Thu May 28 19:31:13 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 15:31:13 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <20090528104600.125a9ceb@calliope> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1C5F30.7080000@redhat.com> <20090528104600.125a9ceb@calliope> Message-ID: <c5cb00220905281231m51654cf5y8e272986b5ec3d52@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:46, Richard Fontana <rfontana at redhat.com> wrote: > However, http://creativecommons.org/compatiblelicenses says that "to > date, Creative Commons has not approved any licenses for > compatibility", and I don't think the OPL would meet the given standard > anyway. > > > -- > Richard E. Fontana > Open Source Licensing and Patent Counsel > Red Hat, Inc. Hi Richard, Thanks for the information. What does this mean for current works that are now downstream if we change the license? Would we have to give general permission to those works or are they still covered because they met the requirements of the original license? Thanks, Eric Docs Project Lead From rfontana at redhat.com Thu May 28 20:42:23 2009 From: rfontana at redhat.com (Richard Fontana) Date: Thu, 28 May 2009 16:42:23 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <c5cb00220905281231m51654cf5y8e272986b5ec3d52@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1BB409.9000807@fedoraproject.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1C5F30.7080000@redhat.com> <20090528104600.125a9ceb@calliope> <c5cb00220905281231m51654cf5y8e272986b5ec3d52@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090528164223.4495e8a1@calliope> On Thu, 28 May 2009 15:31:13 -0400 Eric Christensen <eric at christensenplace.us> wrote: > Hi Richard, > Thanks for the information. What does this mean for current works > that are now downstream if we change the license? Would we have to > give general permission to those works or are they still covered > because they met the requirements of the original license? Hi Eric, Not sure if this is what you are asking, but: We can (and probably would want to) extend permission to cover all past works that have been released. This would not revoke the original permissions given under the OPL, as those permissions are permanent, but it would supplement them (i.e., past works would thereafter become dual-licensed under OPL and CC-BY-SA). If some Fedora work W licensed under OPL is modified downstream by A (W'), and assume that the OPL requires A to license W' including its changes under OPL: A can relicense W' under CC-BY-SA by agreeing to relicense its changes under CC-BY-SA, but otherwise a downstream recipient of W' receives it under OPL only. - RF From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri May 29 05:25:57 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:55:57 +0530 Subject: Fwd: Re: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: Wikipedia license change Message-ID: <4A1F71E5.1080300@fedoraproject.org> In short, we are being encouraged to switch to CC-BY-SA ------- > I know Richard reads fedora-legal-list, so I'll wait for him to chime > in, but in the past, he's expressed that he would very much like for > us to move the wiki from OPL to CC-BY-SA. Such a decision should be made by Fedora qua Fedora, consistent with Fedora's licensing guidelines and general rationality (which is true of the current situation with the use of the OPL and would be true if the license of choice were CC-BY-SA instead). FWIW, my personal view is that switching from OPL to CC-BY-SA makes a lot of sense. In my opinion, the OPL is now a fairly dated license with some flaws. That alone isn't a reason not to use it, for a content author who happens to like it, but the availability of CC-BY-SA shows that there is a license with the same desirable policies (from Fedora's perspective) that is the result of more careful legal drafting. As others have pointed out, CC-BY-SA is today a more widely used license, has a track record of responsible revisions, and the author of the OPL himself would seem to be in favor of OPL users moving on to CC licenses. I've heard one or two people in the Fedora docs community say that CC-BY-SA permits combination, or relicensing, under a broad set of licenses with similar policies including the OPL. That is actually not correct (at least for version 3.0 of CC-BY-SA). CC-BY-SA 3.0 says: You may Distribute or Publicly Perform an Adaptation only under the terms of: (i) this License; (ii) a later version of this License with the same License Elements as this License; (iii) a Creative Commons jurisdiction license (either this or a later license version) that contains the same License Elements as this License (e.g., Attribution-ShareAlike 3.0 US)); (iv) a Creative Commons Compatible License. A "Creative Commons Compatible License" is defined as a license that is listed at http://creativecommons.org/compatiblelicenses that has been approved by Creative Commons as being essentially equivalent to this License, including, at a minimum, because that license: (i) contains terms that have the same purpose, meaning and effect as the License Elements of this License; and, (ii) explicitly permits the relicensing of adaptations of works made available under that license under this License or a Creative Commons jurisdiction license with the same License Elements as this License. However, http://creativecommons.org/compatiblelicenses says that "to date, Creative Commons has not approved any licenses for compatibility", and I don't think the OPL would meet the given standard anyway. From eric at christensenplace.us Fri May 29 14:36:47 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 10:36:47 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <20090528164223.4495e8a1@calliope> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <20090526180349.GP4398@calliope.phig.org> <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1C5F30.7080000@redhat.com> <20090528104600.125a9ceb@calliope> <c5cb00220905281231m51654cf5y8e272986b5ec3d52@mail.gmail.com> <20090528164223.4495e8a1@calliope> Message-ID: <c5cb00220905290736y63bc4b48o30b38e5fdb81a718@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 16:42, Richard Fontana <rfontana at redhat.com> wrote: > On Thu, 28 May 2009 15:31:13 -0400 > Eric Christensen <eric at christensenplace.us> wrote: > >> Hi Richard, >> Thanks for the information. ?What does this mean for current works >> that are now downstream if we change the license? ?Would we have to >> give general permission to those works or are they still covered >> because they met the requirements of the original license? > > Hi Eric, > > Not sure if this is what you are asking, but: We can (and probably > would want to) extend permission to cover all past works that have been > released. This would not revoke the original permissions given under > the OPL, as those permissions are permanent, but it would supplement > them (i.e., past works would thereafter become dual-licensed under OPL > and CC-BY-SA). > > If some Fedora work W licensed under OPL is modified downstream by A > (W'), and assume that the OPL requires A to license W' including its > changes under OPL: ?A can relicense W' under CC-BY-SA by agreeing to > relicense its changes under CC-BY-SA, but otherwise a downstream > recipient of W' receives it under OPL only. > > - RF Richard, That's exactly what I was asking about. Thanks! Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Fri May 29 15:29:06 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 11:29:06 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <c5cb00220905290736y63bc4b48o30b38e5fdb81a718@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1C5F30.7080000@redhat.com> <20090528104600.125a9ceb@calliope> <c5cb00220905281231m51654cf5y8e272986b5ec3d52@mail.gmail.com> <20090528164223.4495e8a1@calliope> <c5cb00220905290736y63bc4b48o30b38e5fdb81a718@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <c5cb00220905290829y164ddb0pc4b8859bfa254fc7@mail.gmail.com> Just to summarize my concerns to the f-d-l... My concern with changing licenses is what happens to the already-downstream derivatives of our works since we are going to change the rules. I think we need to look at how to move this forward in a way that isn't going to leave those works stranded and possibly in violation of the new license. Karsten suggested that we don't change the license on old documents, we dual-license current works, and new works fall under the new license. This makes sense to me but I feel that at some point we need a way to transition the dual-licensed works to just the new license. I'm not sure the best way to do this but for some of the guides we may never loose the old license. Eric From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri May 29 16:40:27 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 22:10:27 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <c5cb00220905290829y164ddb0pc4b8859bfa254fc7@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <87f35b5e0905261130x6bd6e0a3k95d2fe5cb42ccf03@mail.gmail.com> <4A1C368A.7090103@fedoraproject.org> <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1C5F30.7080000@redhat.com> <20090528104600.125a9ceb@calliope> <c5cb00220905281231m51654cf5y8e272986b5ec3d52@mail.gmail.com> <20090528164223.4495e8a1@calliope> <c5cb00220905290736y63bc4b48o30b38e5fdb81a718@mail.gmail.com> <c5cb00220905290829y164ddb0pc4b8859bfa254fc7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A200FFB.2050209@fedoraproject.org> On 05/29/2009 08:59 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > Just to summarize my concerns to the f-d-l... > > My concern with changing licenses is what happens to the > already-downstream derivatives of our works since we are going to > change the rules. I think we need to look at how to move this forward > in a way that isn't going to leave those works stranded and possibly > in violation of the new license. Who are the downstream users? Rahul From eric at christensenplace.us Fri May 29 17:06:07 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:06:07 -0400 Subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <4A200FFB.2050209@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1C5F30.7080000@redhat.com> <20090528104600.125a9ceb@calliope> <c5cb00220905281231m51654cf5y8e272986b5ec3d52@mail.gmail.com> <20090528164223.4495e8a1@calliope> <c5cb00220905290736y63bc4b48o30b38e5fdb81a718@mail.gmail.com> <c5cb00220905290829y164ddb0pc4b8859bfa254fc7@mail.gmail.com> <4A200FFB.2050209@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <c5cb00220905291006q56db068ahed719090506aca6d@mail.gmail.com> On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 12:40, Rahul Sundaram <sundaram at fedoraproject.org> wrote: > On 05/29/2009 08:59 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: >> Just to summarize my concerns to the f-d-l... >> >> My concern with changing licenses is what happens to the >> already-downstream derivatives of our works since we are going to >> change the rules. ?I think we need to look at how to move this forward >> in a way that isn't going to leave those works stranded and possibly >> in violation of the new license. > > Who are the downstream users? > > Rahul We don't know. Anyone could have taken our words and used them, according to the "old" license, without telling us. Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Fri May 29 17:13:52 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 13:13:52 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Announcement FINAL Message-ID: <c5cb00220905291013h6af3e713hf75fddf7cd214064@mail.gmail.com> Thanks to Jack and Paul for stepping up and really getting the release announcement[1] built. We, at Docs, have reviewed the final draft and think we are in consensus that it is complete. Please look over it and see if anything jumps out at you. If not, this is what we'd like to go with. [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 Thanks, Eric Docs Lead From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri May 29 17:18:19 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 22:48:19 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-legal-list] Re: Wikipedia license change In-Reply-To: <c5cb00220905291006q56db068ahed719090506aca6d@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090526090803.GN4398@calliope.phig.org> <20090526194531.GD3473@localhost.localdomain> <20090526195628.GU4398@calliope.phig.org> <4A1C5F30.7080000@redhat.com> <20090528104600.125a9ceb@calliope> <c5cb00220905281231m51654cf5y8e272986b5ec3d52@mail.gmail.com> <20090528164223.4495e8a1@calliope> <c5cb00220905290736y63bc4b48o30b38e5fdb81a718@mail.gmail.com> <c5cb00220905290829y164ddb0pc4b8859bfa254fc7@mail.gmail.com> <4A200FFB.2050209@fedoraproject.org> <c5cb00220905291006q56db068ahed719090506aca6d@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A2018DB.4020006@fedoraproject.org> On 05/29/2009 10:36 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > We don't know. Anyone could have taken our words and used them, > according to the "old" license, without telling us. We would be doing a announcement highlighting this fact if we go ahead with the change. Downstreams would be responsible for checking the license of the newly provided content. Similar to how we check the license on new upstream releases when we incorporate them. Massive projects like wikipedia have changed their license recently. I don't see this as a huge issue at all but maybe I just haven't understood your concerns properly. Rahul From murray.mcallister at gmail.com Fri May 29 23:22:39 2009 From: murray.mcallister at gmail.com (Murray McAllister) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 09:22:39 +1000 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Announcement FINAL In-Reply-To: <c5cb00220905291013h6af3e713hf75fddf7cd214064@mail.gmail.com> References: <c5cb00220905291013h6af3e713hf75fddf7cd214064@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <95f1114b0905291622i806b76bgeecc3696fc89104@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Eric Christensen <eric at christensenplace.us> wrote: > Thanks to Jack and Paul for stepping up and really getting the release > announcement[1] built. ?We, at Docs, have reviewed the final draft and > think we are in consensus that it is complete. ?Please look over it > and see if anything jumps out at you. ?If not, this is what we'd like > to go with. > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 First sentence spells today as "to-day", but maybe that is intended? Also, there are spaces after "..." and the capital letter following. Cheers! From rpjday at crashcourse.ca Fri May 29 23:32:50 2009 From: rpjday at crashcourse.ca (Robert P. J. Day) Date: Fri, 29 May 2009 19:32:50 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora 11 Release Announcement FINAL In-Reply-To: <95f1114b0905291622i806b76bgeecc3696fc89104@mail.gmail.com> References: <c5cb00220905291013h6af3e713hf75fddf7cd214064@mail.gmail.com> <95f1114b0905291622i806b76bgeecc3696fc89104@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0905291931210.28559@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 30 May 2009, Murray McAllister wrote: > On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 3:13 AM, Eric Christensen > <eric at christensenplace.us> wrote: > > Thanks to Jack and Paul for stepping up and really getting the > > release announcement[1] built. ?We, at Docs, have reviewed the > > final draft and think we are in consensus that it is complete. > > ?Please look over it and see if anything jumps out at you. ?If > > not, this is what we'd like to go with. > > > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 > > First sentence spells today as "to-day", but maybe that is intended? > Also, there are spaces after "..." and the capital letter following. the impending roar of the lion ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa2umu1vILI or something like that. rday -- ======================================================================== Robert P. J. Day Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry. Web page: http://crashcourse.ca Linked In: http://www.linkedin.com/in/rpjday Twitter: http://twitter.com/rpjday ======================================================================== From eric at christensenplace.us Sat May 30 14:18:30 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 10:18:30 -0400 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Announcement FINAL In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0905301004000.4137@localhost.localdomain> References: <c5cb00220905291013h6af3e713hf75fddf7cd214064@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LFD.2.00.0905301004000.4137@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1243693110.3063.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-05-30 at 10:07 +0200, Max Spevack wrote: > I like it. It makes me smile, and not much does. > > Minor suggestions: > > (1) Change Dr. Brattlesworth to some sort of pun on a Fedora name? > Unless Brattlesworth has some other meaning that I simply don't get. Anyone have any suggestions? > (2) I read "snares, toils, and dangers" as "snares, trolls, and dangers" > at first, which might be funnier! I didn't make this change only because "trolls" doesn't seem to fit BUT I'm not against making the change because I think it would be funnier. Opinions? > (3) "that marvelous creature -- Leonidas" -- perhaps "the Leonidas"? Changed. > > (4) If (3), then s/Leonidas/the Leonidas/ everywhere appropriate Done > > (5) I believe people adjourn to the "parlour" for cigars and brandy, not > the "sitting room". :) Yeah... done. > > Good stuff. > > --Max > I've also made changes based on Murray's email. -- Eric -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/attachments/20090530/38d11e3e/attachment.sig> From goeran at uddeborg.se Sat May 16 21:12:52 2009 From: goeran at uddeborg.se (=?utf-8?Q?G=C3=B6ran?= Uddeborg) Date: Sat, 16 May 2009 21:12:52 -0000 Subject: Zeroday change to release notes for Release Candidate? In-Reply-To: <4818cd80905131459o79515f04td4f1d75178043ef5@mail.gmail.com> References: <20090513214230.GL9506@calliope.phig.org> <4818cd80905131459o79515f04td4f1d75178043ef5@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <18959.11328.940584.285479@gargle.gargle.HOWL> Domingo Becker writes: > No problem for the Spanish team. I'll update the Swedish translation too. A note when/if it is there would be appreciated. From jaa at redhat.com Wed May 20 01:55:30 2009 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Tue, 19 May 2009 21:55:30 -0400 Subject: F11 Release Announcement In-Reply-To: <c5cb00220905191844h7849cacala4ce70b390478689@mail.gmail.com> References: <c5cb00220905150929v650217fbia893da835fecfb61@mail.gmail.com> <4A131B62.6030803@redhat.com> <c5cb00220905191844h7849cacala4ce70b390478689@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4A136312.7030705@redhat.com> Hey, I'm really busy other stuff, I can try, but no promises at all. If anyone else can start playing with it and maybe I can look at it towards the tail end of the week. Jack Eric Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > No one has touched the wiki page and we need to get this done. I had > writers block over the weekend so no real output from my fingers. I'd > like to have something to go over in tomorrow's Docs meeting. > > If anyone would like to try their hand at it... > > Eric > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkoTYI4ACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFQ/gCg0BYr59RYl6m1xGWvArY6JzE1 > 2fMAniiERq74trgXDRnnZFdNwm5DY+1H > =LITf > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 16:49, Jack Aboutboul <jaa at redhat.com> wrote: > >> Any updates on this? >> >> Jack >> >> Eric Christensen wrote: >> >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- >>> Hash: SHA1 >>> >>> I have started a wiki page[1] for the F11 Release Announcement. The >>> Docs Project has started putting together some ideas but I'd like to >>> open up the opportunity for writing the announcement to the marketing >>> team as well. If you are interested in helping out, please surf on >>> over to the wiki and put your ideas down. I'd like to have this done >>> by Wednesday, May 20th. >>> >>> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Release_Announcement_for_F11 >>> >>> >>> Thanks, >>> Eric >>> >>> Docs Project >>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) >>> Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) >>> >>> iEYEARECAAYFAkoNmFgACgkQfQTSQL0MFMGdiACgn0wAaJ4wjkuFiFXQNBVVi1Ll >>> kboAniOdjFSFAQCwaFrKhpPBvZu8EoBA >>> =gNx9 >>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- >>> >>> >>> >> From mniranjan at redhat.com Wed May 20 05:15:41 2009 From: mniranjan at redhat.com (M.R Niranjan ) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:45:41 +0530 Subject: Self Introduction Message-ID: <4A1391FD.4070908@redhat.com> Greetings, My name is M.R.Niranjan and would like to join Fedora Documentation team, Most of my skills are around Samba, LDAP, Directory Server, Printing (CUPS) and little bit of Virtualization(KVM). I have been associated with Linux for past 4 years as System administrator and as Technical Support Executive , I have knowledge on Shell scripting, and Basics of C. Though i haven't written any visible public articles but would like to contribute to Fedora Documentation in what ever way possible. Thanks Niranjan pub 1024D/6047C7C7 2009-05-19 Key fingerprint = F791 7A87 814F EBCF 2682 94D6 2EED C55F 6047 C7C7 uid Mallapadi Raghavendra Rao Niranjan <mrniranjan at redhat.com> sub 2048g/58596235 2009-05-19 From bcotton at gmail.com Wed May 20 14:35:27 2009 From: bcotton at gmail.com (Ben Cotton) Date: Wed, 20 May 2009 10:35:27 -0400 Subject: Self-introduction: Ben Cotton Message-ID: <87f35b5e0905200735u446a0bb2xf324edfa3b5c6068@mail.gmail.com> Greetings Fedora-docs-listers, It recently occurred to me that it is time I gave something back to the community. I started using Red Hat 8 in college, and eventually switched to using Linux on my primary desktop. I now make a living as a sysadmin for RHEL desktops and servers in a small department of a large Midwestern university. Since I don't have much skill as a programmer, I decided that the Docs group was a good place to start. I don't have any formal project experience, but I do fancy myself a passable writer. Among the accomplishments I'm most proud of during my tenure as a sysadmin is the creation of an internal wiki for my department's IT staff. When I took the position, the documentation was whatever could be found in old e-mail messages. Largely on my own effort, but with considerable help from the rest of the staff, our wiki is now a valuable resource. The contents range from detailed how-to guide to big-picture discussions of the system architecture. My degree is in meteorology, so I do not have a great deal of formal training with computers. Most of my knowledge comes from breaking my computer and then getting it working again. I do have certifications on Linux (RHCT) and OS X (ACSP), and I try to get training when the opportunity and budget align. My primary technical skills are in basic setup and administration: kickstarts, package management, NFS, CUPS, etc. What I lack in technical skills, though, I make up for in the ability to find contributors. I tend to bring in people outside my department to help on specific tasks when their skills better match the needs. Here's my GPG key: [1018 bcotton at boone ~ ]$ gpg --fingerprint AB46AA74 pub 1024D/AB46AA74 2009-02-14 Key fingerprint = B09D 841C 1347 091A 3BD0 759F D9CD 1319 AB46 AA74 uid Ben Cotton <bcotton at purdue.edu> sub 2048g/4BB9F3C7 2009-02-14 I think that covers all I need to share. I look forward to working with all of you and contributing to the project. BC -- Ben Cotton From jaa at redhat.com Fri May 22 21:35:26 2009 From: jaa at redhat.com (Jack Aboutboul) Date: Fri, 22 May 2009 17:35:26 -0400 Subject: Draft of Tuesday's News- Virt Interview with Daniel Berrange Message-ID: <4A171A9E.8080504@redhat.com> Below is the the text of the interview, didn't really think about the lead it, but thats trivial... *1. Please introduce yourself and what you do and how you got started working on virtualization.* I'm one of the lead developers for the libvirt project and am actively involved in many related areas of open source development (qemu/kvm, xen, gtk-vnc, virt-manager, to name but a few). I also co-maintain many of these packages in Fedora and RHEL, along with many others in Red Hat's virtualization team. More than three years ago (shortly after transferring into Red Hat's Engineering team, from consulting services) I was working on the OLPC project. We needed a way to easily test the OS images we were building without needing real hardware. As a proof of concept, I hacked up a simple GTK application to run images them under QEMU. At around the same time Daniel Veillard had started the libvirt project and there was a desire for a desktop application to manage Xen using libvirt. So I switched over to the virtualization team, wrote virt-manager for Fedora 6, and my involvement in all areas of open source virtualization grew from there. *2. Many people view the work being done on virtualization as a feature set of major importance and significance. Can you give us a brief overview of some of the changes that we can expect to see in F11? * The open source virtualization development effort is so large now, that it is useful to discuss each stream in turn. At the lowest layer is obviously the Linux kernel & KVM/QEMU. There has been a major acceleration of development in QEMU and push to merge KVM into the official QEMU source repository. There's ever continuing work on performance, stability, scalability & reliability in KVM. PCI device passthrough is one new feature we're highlighting for Fedora 11. The return of Xen Dom0 was not to be, as the Dom0 paravirt_ops merge with the upstream Linux kernel is still an ongoing process. At the middle layer is libvirt, providing a consistent management API across different virtualization technologies. New features in libvirt, since F10, include PCI device passthrough for Xen and KVM, the sVirt security driver using SELinux to protect KVM guests from each other, thread safety of all libvirt APIs, improved scalability, reliability and debugging for the libvirtd daemon and support for SCSI HBAs and copy-on-write volumes in the storage management APIs. The top layer covers end user tools such as virt-install & virt-manager. virt-manager is undergoing a significant (and ongoing) overhaul of its user interface. The first improvements arriving for Fedora 11 are in the guest installation process and storage management capabilities. As guest installation is first task most users try, ensuring this is simple and reliable is key to making a good first impression. Guest desktop interaction is another historical pain point which has been a focus for improvements in Fedora 11. With every release we also try to make a significant step forward in security of the virtualization stack. In Fedora 11 the focus has been on SELinux to protect guests from each other and SASL to authenticate VNC users. *3. There have been some large changes in virt-manager and libvirt, which are at the core of the user experience when it comes to virtualization. Can you talk to use about those some more?* The guest installation process and desktop interaction are the most critical areas for making a good first impression. In the virt-manager re-design the wizard used for installing new guests has been streamlined, cutting out three redundant steps. Where possible, it will automatically detect the type of operating system being installed and choose the best configuration options to optimize for this OS, no longer requiring the user to figure this out for themselves. The installation process now directly utilizes the libvirt storage management APIs to allow easy creation of files in a variety of formats (raw, qcow2, vmdk, etc), allocation of new local disk partitions or LVM volumes and access to LUNs exported by iSCSI targets. This is particularly useful when remotely managing virtualization hosts, allowing regular administrator tasks to be performed from the virt-manager UI without resorting to command line SSH sessions. The mouse pointer has been a constant source of trouble for virtualization management applications. Getting the guest mouse pointer to track the host pointer is essentially impossible with the standard emulated PS/2 mouse. The solution is to provide a pointer device that supports absolute motion events, instead of relative events that the PS/2 mouse provides. For KVM and Xen, this means adding a USB tablet device, but historically Xorg has not been able to automatically configure this correctly. This is resolved with Fedora 11 guests, finally providing a guest pointer that moves in perfect sync with the host, not requiring the pointer to be confined to the guest window. Users with non-US layout keyboards have also had a hard time getting their guests to support input of accented/special characters. The VNC protocol has now been extended to allow the hardware keycodes to be passed directly from the VNC client to the guest OS without any intermediate translation step. This should allow the guest OS complete control over the keyboard layout mapping, without a need for any special settings on the host. The final piece of work was to increase the guest desktop resolution. The real Cirrus video card that QEMU emulates would never have done more than 800x600, but there are tricks that can be done in a virtual world. Thus a simple change to the Xorg cirrus driver allows it to detect that it is using a Cirrus card emulated by QEMU and increase the guest desktop resolution to 1024x768. Still not great by today's standards, but better than before. Longer term plans involve replacing the cirrus driver in QEMU with something more virtualization friendly. *4. Also, as people should take note of, there has been a lot of work done surrounding KVM and getting that well integrated into the whole virtualization setup in Fedora. How has that work been going and has anything significant been done in that area in this release?* Fedora was the first major Linux distribution to integrate KVM back in the Fedora 7 release. It became the default virtualization technology in Fedora 9, when it became clear we could no longer maintain the separate Xen host kernel until it was merged in the upstream Linux kernel. The great benefit of KVM from an distro integration point of view, is that it is there by default in all new Linux kernels. All that was required in Fedora was to turn on the module build and make sure the modules are always loaded when compatible CPUs are found. libvirt and virt-manager have also both supported KVM since it was first added to Fedora. Thus there hasn't been a need for much additional integration work for KVM. The focus has simply been on improving features available to KVM users via libvirt and virt-manager. * 5. Glauber Costa has also done significant work merging KVM and QEMU. Can you explain to us what QEMU is and why the choice was made to merge it with QEMU and how that is of benefit to the user base?* Earlier Fedora releases have have suffered from the divergence of QEMU and KVM code bases. Upstream QEMU has had releases almost 1 year apart, while KVM has been releasing at least once a month, if not more, using snapshots of the QEMU source repository. Thus the features available in QEMU were far behind those available in KVM even though they both shared the same fundamental code base and upstream development stream. It also doubled the work package maintainers had todo for security & bug fixes. Since Fedora 10 though, the upstream QEMU community has accelerated its release schedule significantly and many of the KVM features have been merged back into the main QEMU code base. Thus we judged that the time was right to attempt to ship a single package containing both QEMU and KVM built from a single code base. For users this means that parity of features between QEMU and KVM, while the reduced burden on our Fedora package maintainers, ensures more timely security and bug fixes. Glauber also took the opportunity to split out all the virtual BIOS files and ROMs from QEMU into separate packages and ensure all are fully built from source using appropriate upstream source releases. *6. Virtualization and Security are two things that are being discussed more or less hand in hand these days, as the ability to create and use virtualized machines expands there are many security risks involved. Can you speak a bit to the work that was done one improving security both at the kernel level (sVirt) and also the user level with things like SASL for VNC Auth?* In each Fedora release we try to make at least one significant step forward in the security of our virtualization technology. In Fedora 8, libvirt gained support for secure remote management using TLS for encryption and x509 client certificates for authentication, while GTK-VNC, QEMU, KVM and Xen were also all extended to add a VNC extension for TLS encryption providing a secure remote desktop. In Fedora 9 libvirt was further extended to support SASL enabling secure remote managment with Kerberos for authentication and PolicyKit for local desktop authentication. Fedora 9 and 10 also increased use of SELinux to protect the host operating system from a compromised or malicious QEMU/KVM process. The latter still did not provide any protection between guests, so one compromised QEMU process would still potentially be able to compromise another on the same host. Thus James Morris started work on a project known as sVirt, the first results of which are appearing in Fedora 11. The focus has been to provide isolation between guests running on a single host. libvirt directly integrates with SELinux to ensure every QEMU process it launches runs within a dedicated security context, only able to access its own assigned disk images. This protection is enabled by default on all Fedora 11 hosts using libvirt for management. As well as the security benefits, the end user experiance is improved because libvirt will automatically manage SELinux labelling for all guest disks, eliminating a major source of bug reports from previous Fedora releases. *7. These features have all evolved over time and over the previous Fedora releases and Fedora, as a distribution, has always been a leader in the virtualization realm. Can you talk a bit now about the actual process of developing these features and how many of the improvements and enhancements to virtualization have come about as a direct result of the work done previously? Also, what does the future look like?* Virtualization technology in Fedora is reaping the benefit of very active upstream projects and the significant developer resources of Red Hat's Virtualization Engineering team. The combination of these provide great opportunities for new features to have their debut in Fedora releases. The ideas for new features come from many sources, some from Fedora end-user experiances & consequent bug reports, some magically arrive on cue from upstream projects, while others are things that look to be important for future RHEL releases. With the PCI device passthrough feature in F11, the core support was all already done by the upstream KVM community. This is a important feature for future RHEL, so Red Hat put resources into a F11 feature to add support to libvirt for PCI passthrough with KVM and Xen and then expose this in virt-manager. The feature aiming to improve the guest desktop interaction was a result of the persistent stream of bug reports from Fedora users. We had been considering ways to address this over course of several Fedora releases, but it was not until Fedora 11 that all the pieces of the solution finally came together from the various upstream projects. The security improvements in virtualization have a different origin. Very few end users ever file explicit bug reports asking for the addition of more authentication / encryption features or to use more SELinux. If anything users ask for ability to more easily turn off existing security features. This is a case where the user is not always right. They do want more security, but they just don't know it yet! As a developer it is neccessary to be very proactive with security improvements. This can be particularly challenging work because the solutions often involve working across multiple upstream communities. Take the VNC SASL authentication feature in Fedora 11 as an example. The first step was to write a specification for a new VNC security extension, have it reviewed & get a code for it allocated by RealVNC. Work on QEMU was required to implement the server side. Work on GTK-VNC was needed for client side. For management tools, work on libvirt was required to get the new security type enabled for guests it launches and finally virt-manager was extended such that it knows how to login. That's give different projects involved for one feature. This is only practical by having a close working relationship with all the upstream communities and carefully coordinating the work there so it all arrives in time for the next Fedora release. For the future we're happy that libvirt gained support for managing VirtualBox recently and likely to soon have a driver for the Open Nebular cloud management project. Expect more advancements in sVirt, allowing for tighter controls on what a virtual machine can do, for example, ability to restrict network access of guests. libvirt will also gain the ability to manage host network configuration in Fedora 12, removing the need to manually configure bridge devices. Container based virt may make a more formal appearance in Fedora 12 as the native Linux container (LXC) support improves in the kernel and libvirt. The overhaul of the virt-manager user interface also continues. *8. Working on Virtualization must be awfully time consuming and very involved. Do you enjoy it? What do you do to get away from the pressures of hacking?* Working on open source virtualization technology is a great experiance because it is a really interesting & challenging field, having plenty of talented developers to work with & learn from. There is plenty of work still to be done at all levels of the stack from kernel/hypervisor right through to end user applications & not nearly enough time todo it all. I'm fortunate to be able to spread my work between upstream projects, the Fedora community and RHEL releases and maintainence. As for free time ? What free time :-) I try to find time for a photography, with 4 out of my 5 cameras still using film, rather than digital. From mspevack at redhat.com Sat May 30 08:07:13 2009 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 10:07:13 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Fedora 11 Release Announcement FINAL In-Reply-To: <c5cb00220905291013h6af3e713hf75fddf7cd214064@mail.gmail.com> References: <c5cb00220905291013h6af3e713hf75fddf7cd214064@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0905301004000.4137@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 29 May 2009, Eric Christensen wrote: > Thanks to Jack and Paul for stepping up and really getting the release > announcement[1] built. We, at Docs, have reviewed the final draft and > think we are in consensus that it is complete. Please look over it > and see if anything jumps out at you. If not, this is what we'd like > to go with. I like it. It makes me smile, and not much does. Minor suggestions: (1) Change Dr. Brattlesworth to some sort of pun on a Fedora name? Unless Brattlesworth has some other meaning that I simply don't get. (2) I read "snares, toils, and dangers" as "snares, trolls, and dangers" at first, which might be funnier! (3) "that marvelous creature -- Leonidas" -- perhaps "the Leonidas"? (4) If (3), then s/Leonidas/the Leonidas/ everywhere appropriate (5) I believe people adjourn to the "parlour" for cigars and brandy, not the "sitting room". :) Good stuff. --Max From mspevack at redhat.com Sat May 30 15:46:30 2009 From: mspevack at redhat.com (Max Spevack) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 17:46:30 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Fedora 11 Release Announcement FINAL In-Reply-To: <1243693110.3063.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <c5cb00220905291013h6af3e713hf75fddf7cd214064@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LFD.2.00.0905301004000.4137@localhost.localdomain> <1243693110.3063.6.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0905301740370.28036@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 30 May 2009, Eric Christensen wrote: >> (1) Change Dr. Brattlesworth to some sort of pun on a Fedora name? >> Unless Brattlesworth has some other meaning that I simply don't get. > > Anyone have any suggestions? Who in the Fedora community reminds me most of the Jungle River tour guide at Disneyworld? Hmmmmm....... man, that's tough! The more I read "Brattlesworth", the funnier it is. I'm picturing John Cleese in that role. >> (2) I read "snares, toils, and dangers" as "snares, trolls, and >> dangers" at first, which might be funnier! > > I didn't make this change only because "trolls" doesn't seem to fit > BUT I'm not against making the change because I think it would be > funnier. Opinions? /me waits to see what others think. From smooge at gmail.com Sat May 30 18:56:06 2009 From: smooge at gmail.com (Stephen John Smoogen) Date: Sat, 30 May 2009 12:56:06 -0600 Subject: Fedora 11 Release Announcement FINAL In-Reply-To: <alpine.LFD.2.00.0905301004000.4137@localhost.localdomain> References: <c5cb00220905291013h6af3e713hf75fddf7cd214064@mail.gmail.com> <alpine.LFD.2.00.0905301004000.4137@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <80d7e4090905301156w7b35f141u55828a83fcef5fd6@mail.gmail.com> On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 2:07 AM, Max Spevack <mspevack at redhat.com> wrote: > On Fri, 29 May 2009, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> Thanks to Jack and Paul for stepping up and really getting the release >> announcement[1] built. ?We, at Docs, have reviewed the final draft and think >> we are in consensus that it is complete. ?Please look over it and see if >> anything jumps out at you. ?If not, this is what we'd like to go with. > > I like it. ?It makes me smile, and not much does. > > Minor suggestions: > > (1) Change Dr. Brattlesworth to some sort of pun on a Fedora name? Unless > Brattlesworth has some other meaning that I simply don't get. Well Brattlesworth doesn't prattle anything so the other fellow must be Dr Broll who is very droll. I would believe Brattlesworth would be played by someone very quiet . Broll is of course played by Michael Palin (who does these sort of things for a living) and Brattlesworth would be played by a very quiet John Cleese who would mime being eaten/beaten/mauled by the Leonadis. > (2) I read "snares, toils, and dangers" as "snares, trolls, and dangers" at > first, which might be funnier! I think toils goes better with the general story. Trolls is more of Holy Grail skit. > (5) I believe people adjourn to the "parlour" for cigars and brandy, not the > "sitting room". ?:) Dear sirs, in the matter of your speech, I believe I have found a slight problem. In most victorian and edwardian novels it would seem that the men go to the smoking room, the ladies go to either the parlour or sitting room. Seeing a man in the parlour was usually a sign of distress. Which of course would be how a skit like this would end.. the lights come on and we see that all the old gentlemen are dressed in drag. However that is a visual joke hard to accomplish in written word :0. -- Stephen J Smoogen. -- BSD/GNU/Linux How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. = Shakespeare. "The Merchant of Venice"