Docs Meeting Log 2009-05-27

[John J. McDonough]

**** BEGIN LOGGING AT Wed May 27 19:45:01 2009

May 27 20:00:16 <Sparks> <meeting id="Docs Project">
May 27 20:00:16 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs 
Project Meeting - Agenda: 
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting
May 27 20:00:23 <Sparks> Roll Call!
May 27 20:00:23 * Sparks is here
May 27 20:00:33 * jjmcd is napping
May 27 20:00:41 * bcotton is present
May 27 20:00:44 * joat is here in spirit
May 27 20:00:54 * rudi is here
May 27 20:01:04 * danielsmw is here
May 27 20:01:11 <ianweller> meow
May 27 20:01:54 * daMaestro has quit ("Leaving")
May 27 20:02:02 * laubersm (n=Susan at fedora/laubersm) has joined 
#fedora-meeting
May 27 20:02:10 * Sparks waits for a few more to trickle in
May 27 20:02:23 <Sparks> jjmcd: Can you handle the log for tonight, please?
May 27 20:02:25 * ianweller turns up the faucet
May 27 20:02:26 * laubersm wanders by
May 27 20:02:54 <jjmcd> let me check, not sure I have the right client
May 27 20:03:39 * dychen_ 
(n=dingyich at d122-109-13-56.rdl15.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined 
#fedora-meeting
May 27 20:03:40 <jjmcd> looks good
May 27 20:03:48 <Sparks> jjmcd: Cool... thanks
May 27 20:03:55 * Sparks wonders where quaid is
May 27 20:04:13 <jjmcd> ke4qqq will need to remind me how to convert it 
after the meeting
May 27 20:04:24 <ianweller> jjmcd: irclog2html -s mediawiki
May 27 20:04:54 <Sparks> Okay, we've got a bunch of stuff to get through 
tonight so let's get going...
May 27 20:04:56 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - 
[[FAD_SELF | FAD @ Self]]
May 27 20:05:06 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Shameless plug?
May 27 20:05:17 <jjmcd> Oh, he's in SantaCruz
May 27 20:05:17 * ianweller has changed the topic to: Docs Project - [[FAD 
SELF|Fedora Activity Day @ SELF]]
May 27 20:05:23 <jjmcd> says he'll be late
May 27 20:05:27 <ianweller> no underscores ^_^
May 27 20:05:29 * ianweller stops breaking things
May 27 20:05:58 * Sparks wonders where ke4qqq is
May 27 20:06:08 <ianweller> he was here earlier, was talking with him 
in -ambassadors
May 27 20:06:13 <Sparks> okay... Who is planning on being @ SELF and the 
FAD?
May 27 20:06:17 * danielsmw is
May 27 20:06:18 * ianweller
May 27 20:06:37 * joat
May 27 20:07:10 <Sparks> and I'll be there
May 27 20:08:16 <danielsmw> Sparks: anything specifically to work on at the 
FAD?  Or figure that out when we get there?
May 27 20:08:20 <Sparks> I think we'll have remote capabilities there as 
well.
May 27 20:08:58 <Sparks> danielsmw: There are things to talk about.
May 27 20:09:14 * ke4qqq is here but late
May 27 20:09:41 <danielsmw> But just in time to make your plug.
May 27 20:10:00 <Sparks> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FAD_SELF#Activities
May 27 20:10:28 * jjmcd would like to see the FAD crowd figure out the 
answer to the ultimate question of language codes, publican and everything
May 27 20:10:39 <ke4qqq> jjmcd: 42
May 27 20:10:56 * ke4qqq checks that off the list
May 27 20:11:16 <jjmcd> You must have had your towel with you the other day
May 27 20:11:24 <ianweller> jjmcd: ^_^
May 27 20:11:32 <Sparks> ke4qqq: What capabilities are we going to have for 
remoting folks?
May 27 20:11:46 <Sparks> I can bring a phone for Talk access
May 27 20:11:58 <ianweller> i was planning on bringing my phone too
May 27 20:12:01 <ke4qqq> we'll have a grandstream sip phone
May 27 20:12:03 <ianweller> if security doesn't have a hissy fit
May 27 20:12:11 <ke4qqq> security won't
May 27 20:12:23 <ricky> I've brought hard drives through without having any 
security problems
May 27 20:12:24 <ke4qqq> I've flown with mine
May 27 20:12:28 <ianweller> ke4qqq: soh ave i
May 27 20:12:33 * dychen_ has quit ("Ex-Chat")
May 27 20:12:35 <ianweller> ke4qqq: they just kinda looked at me oddly ;) 
but it was fine
May 27 20:13:01 <ke4qqq> we also have irc and gobby
May 27 20:13:11 <ianweller> and we can borrow a megaphone
May 27 20:14:07 <Sparks> ke4qqq: Anything we need to discuss?
May 27 20:14:45 <ke4qqq> nothing aside from getting as many people to attend 
as possible - hopefully recruiting one or two new ones the day of SELF and 
adding to the activities list
May 27 20:14:48 * radsy (n=irc at nat/redhat/x-a97825f39214264b) has joined 
#fedora-meeting
May 27 20:15:19 <Sparks> cool.
May 27 20:15:23 <Sparks> anyone have any questions?
May 27 20:15:44 <Sparks> okay... moving on...
May 27 20:15:45 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -  New 
[http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/us/ CC] license discussion. 
<--quaid
May 27 20:16:09 <Sparks> So...  there have been discussions on IRC and on 
the list about changing our license from OPL to CC-BY-SA.
May 27 20:16:22 <Sparks> RHLegal have said that they are cool with this...
May 27 20:16:41 <Sparks> and it looks like the BY-SA version is very similar 
to the OPL...
May 27 20:17:01 <Sparks> EXCEPT that it allows "similar" downstream licenses 
to be used...
May 27 20:17:06 <jjmcd> So if its similar, why change
May 27 20:17:07 <ianweller> there's been general consensus on the list but i 
think setting up a poll would be the safest way to go about this
May 27 20:17:09 <Sparks> instead of mandating that it must be OPL.
May 27 20:17:24 <Sparks> ianweller: who are we polling?
May 27 20:17:24 <ianweller> jjmcd: allows more freedom for downstream
May 27 20:17:30 <ianweller> Sparks: docs
May 27 20:17:31 <ke4qqq> my concern is where 'similar' might be more 
restrictive.
May 27 20:17:38 <Sparks> ianweller who is docs?
May 27 20:17:44 <ianweller> Sparks: fas group
May 27 20:17:55 <Sparks> ianweller: which is borked... but that's another 
topic
May 27 20:17:58 <ianweller> hehe
May 27 20:18:02 <ke4qqq> ianweller: voting??? ugghh
May 27 20:18:22 <jjmcd> Well, probably four people will vote and you already 
know their answer
May 27 20:18:25 * mchua has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
May 27 20:18:31 <Sparks> Right now the CC licenses are more widely known and 
understood...  a standard if you will
May 27 20:18:59 <Sparks> but it is very similar to what we are using now.
May 27 20:19:17 <ke4qqq> Sparks: you are the appointed leader - if you feel 
you have consensus move forward with it. That's one thing we lost with 
fdsco, ability for a small group to make decisions
May 27 20:19:22 <ianweller> the CC licenses are much more standard and we 
might even be able to get a few contributors with the buzz about the license 
change.
May 27 20:19:33 <jjmcd> is this downstream business the only difference?
May 27 20:20:05 <ianweller> if we do it well we can get featured on the 
front page of the CC website, perhaps
May 27 20:20:40 <ke4qqq> so another concern is getting upstaged by rh docs 
doing the same move
May 27 20:20:56 <ke4qqq> be nice if we could stage them by a month or so.
May 27 20:21:30 <ke4qqq> ie, fedora makes the move in June and RH docs waits 
til July
May 27 20:21:39 <Sparks> the CC license are far more accepted and understood
May 27 20:21:44 <ianweller> +1 ke4qqq
May 27 20:22:15 <Sparks> CC licenses have actually be integrated into some 
US laws
May 27 20:23:03 <ianweller> Sparks: as ke4qqq said you're the leader... do 
we have consensus?
May 27 20:23:07 <ianweller> do we need to poll the list more?
May 27 20:23:12 <ianweller> do we need to hit ianweller for suggesting a 
poll?
May 27 20:23:15 * fbijlsma has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
May 27 20:23:20 <ke4qqq> yes to hitting you
May 27 20:23:31 <ke4qqq> I'll be selling tickets for that at FAD
May 27 20:23:32 <joat> is a reason needed?
May 27 20:23:37 <Sparks> Well, I guess my concern is...  does anyone have 
any problems/concerns with the license change?
May 27 20:23:41 <laubersm> I didn't see the list email...  but I am behind
May 27 20:23:43 <ianweller> ke4qqq: oh so *that's* how you're paying for me 
to go
May 27 20:23:46 <laubersm> I am cool with CC
May 27 20:23:51 * dychen_ 
(n=dingyich at d122-109-13-56.rdl15.qld.optusnet.com.au) has joined 
#fedora-meeting
May 27 20:23:59 <ke4qqq> no one has voiced any opposition
May 27 20:24:02 <laubersm> and I don't know much about what we are using so 
I do not really know the differences
May 27 20:24:12 <ke4qqq> I would like us to do some prep before we announce.
May 27 20:24:25 <ianweller> i would like us to talk to CC and get some hype 
going.
May 27 20:24:31 <ianweller> they'd love to, they've been doing it for lots 
of sites
May 27 20:24:39 <ke4qqq> ie, get marketing involved in the announcement - 
have a document explaining the differences and benefits and how it makes us 
more free
May 27 20:24:51 * ianweller can ping somebody in CC's irc channel if need be
May 27 20:24:57 <Sparks> ke4qqq: well, jjmcd keeps asking why
May 27 20:25:21 <ke4qqq> thats not opposition though
May 27 20:25:21 * jjmcd has no problem, just wants to make sure we 
understand what we are doing
May 27 20:25:38 * jjmcd has a hard time getting excited about this sort of 
thing
May 27 20:25:59 <Sparks> :)
May 27 20:26:34 <jjmcd> Much easier to get worked up over whether it makes 
sense to virtualize a class
May 27 20:26:41 <Sparks> Okay...  I'm going to let quaid move forward on 
this.  I think we want to run the specifics by RHLegal and let them give us 
a thumbs up
May 27 20:26:59 * pfrields2 (n=pfrields at fedora/stickster) has joined 
#fedora-meeting
May 27 20:27:09 <ke4qqq> and pick a specific license
May 27 20:27:27 <rudi> Sparks -- when legal comes up with a suitable licence 
text, we'll need to incorporate that into the Fedora brand package for 
Publican...
May 27 20:27:27 <jjmcd> The whole bit about getting marketing involved ahead 
of time - well placed leaks etc. seems like a good move
May 27 20:27:49 <Sparks> rudi: well... most of that is already incorporated 
in the CC license
May 27 20:28:00 <ke4qqq> who is the docs fwn beat writer?
May 27 20:28:14 <rudi> ie, to replace 
https://fedorahosted.org/publican/browser/trunk/publican-fedora/en-US/Legal_Notice.xml
May 27 20:28:25 <Sparks> rudi: Yes
May 27 20:29:00 <Sparks> Okay...  Anything else on this topic?
May 27 20:29:18 <ke4qqq> we need to
May 27 20:29:19 * pfrields2 comes in late
May 27 20:29:21 <ke4qqq> create a feature page
May 27 20:29:31 <jjmcd> Enjoy your cake?
May 27 20:29:38 * rayvd has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
May 27 20:29:47 <Sparks> ke4qqq: This will more than likely affect F12 
releases
May 27 20:29:50 <Sparks> ke4qqq: but yes
May 27 20:30:00 <Sparks> pfrields2: I'm sorry, do I know you?
May 27 20:30:01 <ke4qqq> right that's what I am talking about
May 27 20:30:10 <pfrields2> Just some random guy....
May 27 20:30:14 <Sparks> ke4qqq: So was that you volunteering?
May 27 20:30:45 <jjmcd> ke4qqq already has the practice
May 27 20:30:49 <ke4qqq> yeah I can do that
May 27 20:30:51 <ke4qqq> I do?
May 27 20:30:54 <Sparks> Cool
May 27 20:31:10 <jjmcd> I was thinking about the fwn beat
May 27 20:31:14 <ke4qqq> I will wait til after we make noise though
May 27 20:31:33 <ke4qqq> and this should all be post f12
May 27 20:31:36 <ke4qqq> IMO
May 27 20:31:49 <pfrields2> Why do we need to wait until after F12?
May 27 20:31:58 <jjmcd> I thought it was going to be an F12 feature
May 27 20:32:12 <ke4qqq> sorry meant f11
May 27 20:32:23 <jjmcd> yeah
May 27 20:32:24 <pfrields2> Ah, okey doke
May 27 20:32:34 <Sparks> individual guides should change over as necessary
May 27 20:32:36 <pfrields2> When we think ahead, we *really* think ahead ;-)
May 27 20:32:44 <ke4qqq> lol yeah
May 27 20:32:49 * quaid arrives tardy, sry
May 27 20:33:04 <ke4qqq> it is ok quaid we assigned you work
May 27 20:33:04 <jjmcd> back from marketing farmers, eh?
May 27 20:33:05 <ke4qqq> :)
May 27 20:33:10 <Sparks> quaid: Anything you want to add on the licensing 
discussion?
May 27 20:33:23 <pfrields2> Sorry I missed the background -- my home server 
that logs the conversations is wedged right now
May 27 20:33:37 <quaid> nothing to add
May 27 20:33:39 <pfrields2> What are the action items, and who's responsible 
for them?
May 27 20:34:10 <Sparks> quaid: So we like the idea...  what's next?
May 27 20:34:12 <ke4qqq> pfrields2: quaid: to give you a quick rundown
May 27 20:34:22 <pfrields2> ke4qqq: Thanks :-)
May 27 20:34:55 <ke4qqq> we want to coordinate with marketing, and hopefully 
CC after getting a specific instance of the cc-by-sa chosen by rhlegal
May 27 20:35:22 <ke4qqq> and hopefully work to keep rh docs from moving to 
the same license by at least a month so fp.o gets some fame separate from RH
May 27 20:35:39 <ke4qqq> and we are going to let quaid drive the process
May 27 20:35:51 <ke4qqq> since there is so much interaction with rhlegal and 
ecs
May 27 20:36:07 <ke4qqq> ohhh and I'm responsible for the feature page
May 27 20:36:18 * ianweller can take care of talking to CC
May 27 20:36:32 * quaid just read his buffer
May 27 20:36:48 <quaid> oh, good, feature sounds fine
May 27 20:37:16 <pfrields2> And we're talking to CC with the specific 
purpose of having them spread the news that the Fedora Project is adopting a 
CC license for docs and wiki?
May 27 20:37:17 <quaid> ianweller: ok, work with themayor because he knows 
cats there, too, and that way it gets on the Marketing agenda
May 27 20:37:24 <quaid> pfrields2: yeppers
May 27 20:37:31 <ke4qqq> and essentially we are going to document how this 
makes us more free
May 27 20:37:47 <quaid> hmm, going to need to establish that as a fact, 
that's for sure :)
May 27 20:38:24 <quaid> jjmcd: did you want to cover the why here for the 
record?
May 27 20:38:35 <quaid> otherwise, I think what was said on list is a fairly 
good set of reasons
May 27 20:38:40 <jjmcd> Why?  Downstream ;-)
May 27 20:38:58 <jjmcd> I think we do need to move fairly quickly tho
May 27 20:39:12 <jjmcd> seems like there was some date in the fall when all 
this becomes a lot hader
May 27 20:39:34 <quaid> hmm, OK
May 27 20:39:43 <quaid> it's too late for the F11 release packages
May 27 20:39:48 <quaid> right?
May 27 20:39:49 <jjmcd> As I understand it, this makes it easier for folks 
who don't have the identical license to use our stuff
May 27 20:39:52 <pfrields2> jjmcd: *: OPL forces downstream to use OPL only, 
where CC-BY-SA allows you to use any like-termed license, right?
May 27 20:40:02 <jjmcd> That is my understanding
May 27 20:40:13 * pfrields2 is sure there's a bunch of legal stuff there 
that Mr. Fontana will help us with.
May 27 20:40:42 <ianweller> quaid: wayyyyyy too late for F11, yeah
May 27 20:40:45 <ke4qqq> yeah I think we want Fontana to create the bullet 
point of the improvments
May 27 20:40:55 <jjmcd> quaid, the current opl allows us to change to cc 
easily, up until some date I think sept
May 27 20:41:09 <pfrields2> jjmcd: ?
May 27 20:41:12 <ianweller> hmm?
May 27 20:41:15 <pfrields2> Are you sure you're not thinking of the GNU FDL?
May 27 20:41:31 <pfrields2> That's a very different license, and they 
engineered some leeway for switching IIRC.
May 27 20:41:38 <ianweller> they did, for wikipedia.
May 27 20:41:41 <pfrields2> Right.
May 27 20:41:41 <jjmcd> I thought it was OPL, but then, I don't really get 
all geeked by this legal stuff
May 27 20:42:01 <quaid> yeah, that's GFDL
May 27 20:42:05 <quaid> http://opencontent.org/blog/archives/329
May 27 20:42:20 <quaid> that is a fairly cogent argument about why to use 
the CC from the author of the OPL.
May 27 20:42:30 <quaid> zoglesby++ for the reference :)
May 27 20:42:33 <ianweller> well, what more do we need then :)
May 27 20:42:37 <pfrields2> Superb.
May 27 20:42:37 <Jeff_S> quaid: thanks, I was just looking for that post! :)
May 27 20:42:44 * linuxguru (n=linuxgur at unaffiliated/linuxguru) has joined 
#fedora-meeting
May 27 20:43:15 <quaid> ok, then, I think we have all the parts assigned, 
etc.
May 27 20:43:24 <Sparks> cool
May 27 20:43:31 <Sparks> quaid: let me know if I can help you with this
May 27 20:43:38 <quaid> I've got the legal + content services + bug reports 
to the publican Fedora package (when that happens)
May 27 20:43:54 <quaid> ianweller will talk to CC and work with themayor on 
Marketing crossover
May 27 20:44:00 <quaid> ke4qqq has the feature page
May 27 20:44:02 <quaid> anything else?
May 27 20:44:06 <quaid> if not, then away we go ...
May 27 20:44:24 <Sparks> +1
May 27 20:44:33 * ianweller watches quaid teleport away, molecule by 
molecule
May 27 20:44:44 <Sparks> sparkly
May 27 20:44:52 <Sparks> okay... anything else on this topic?
May 27 20:44:56 <ianweller> no
May 27 20:45:46 * quaid done
May 27 20:45:49 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - 
[[Release_Announcement_for_F11 | Release Announcement]]
May 27 20:45:50 <pfrields2> disco
May 27 20:45:55 <Sparks> groovy
May 27 20:46:00 * quaid emails that result to the list, btw
May 27 20:46:06 <Sparks> quaid: Thanks
May 27 20:46:29 <Sparks> Okay... so I think the announcement is ready to go.
May 27 20:46:36 <Sparks> Just need final eyes on it
May 27 20:47:07 * pfrields2 has quit ("Quit")
May 27 20:47:12 <quaid> ruh roh
May 27 20:47:17 <quaid> is he going to come back?
May 27 20:47:20 <jjmcd> Looks pretty good.  Most of ianweller's edits were 
good catches, one or two I would noodle on a bit
May 27 20:47:40 * quaid reloads and gives a last read
May 27 20:47:49 <ianweller> there's a reason the newspaper staff at my 
school put me on as copy editor
May 27 20:47:52 <ianweller> ;)
May 27 20:47:57 <quaid> oooh, didn't know that
May 27 20:48:01 * quaid makes a mental note
May 27 20:48:41 <jjmcd> things like its and it's I tend to gloss over, tough 
to catch those.  The commas, tho, can't believe those didn't junp out at me
May 27 20:48:44 * stickster_afk is now known as stickster
May 27 20:48:48 * stickster is now known as stickster_afk
May 27 20:49:11 <ianweller> jjmcd: i didn't focus too much on the commas
May 27 20:49:18 <ianweller> i should do another read-through to double check
May 27 20:49:22 <jjmcd> you caught a few blatant ones
May 27 20:49:27 <ianweller> yeah
May 27 20:49:30 <stickster_afk> I'm here
May 27 20:49:41 <jjmcd> we thought you ODed on cake
May 27 20:49:42 <stickster_afk> Switched systems and this one took a while 
to get past the lag
May 27 20:49:46 * stickster_afk is now known as stickster
May 27 20:49:54 <ianweller> the cake is a lie
May 27 20:50:21 <Sparks> stickster: I guess we need your thumbs up on it?
May 27 20:50:26 * jjmcd notices stickster didn't bring us any
May 27 20:50:47 <stickster> Hm, there seem to be some repeated adverbs...
May 27 20:50:58 <ke4qqq> ohhh yeah - guess blessing of Fedora Board would be 
nice
May 27 20:51:07 <stickster> ke4qqq: Nah, this one I can handle on my own.
May 27 20:51:16 <ke4qqq> ohhhh ignore me - missed the jump to release 
announcement
May 27 20:51:32 <stickster> I think the last paragraphs need a little more 
meat
May 27 20:51:54 <jjmcd> Zebra or gazelle?
May 27 20:51:58 <stickster> Just to keep this story setup rolling, and to 
keep it from becoming simply a list of features
May 27 20:52:05 <stickster> jjmcd: Dunno, it all tastes like chicken to me
May 27 20:52:17 <stickster> I'll play with it a bit
May 27 20:52:28 * stickster is a harsh creative writing teacher, apparently
May 27 20:53:41 <stickster> go ahead
May 27 20:54:24 <Sparks> Okay...  I'll put this in stickster's hands and 
follow up with him later.  This has to be out the door by Friday
May 27 20:54:40 <Sparks> Anything else on this topic?
May 27 20:55:04 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -  Status on 
Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd
May 27 20:55:08 <Sparks> jjmcd:  Where are we?
May 27 20:55:22 <jjmcd> I just did most of a test build,
May 27 20:55:38 <quaid> jjmcd++
May 27 20:55:44 <jjmcd> git is preventing me from doing it all automatically 
as I would like - I need to poke in the middle a bit
May 27 20:55:55 <jjmcd> But I didn't get done b4 meeting
May 27 20:56:17 <jjmcd> I need to check on ohhh, it sidappeared
May 27 20:56:41 <jjmcd> There was something there that I wasn't sure about 
but perhaps volume - need to check
May 27 20:56:45 <ianweller> < jjmcd> my machine is on fire, this can't be 
good
May 27 20:56:46 <ianweller> ;)
May 27 20:56:46 <jjmcd> but i think it is in there
May 27 20:57:06 <jjmcd> Tell ya what, that msgmerge sure puts it to work
May 27 20:57:18 <ianweller> mmhmm
May 27 20:57:25 <jjmcd> Hopefully I'll do a test install yet tonight
May 27 20:57:55 <jjmcd> I've lost track of what we need when tho
May 27 20:58:06 <Sparks> We need to button it all up, now.
May 27 20:58:21 <jjmcd> So, RPM and web both?
May 27 20:58:25 <stickster> 
http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html
May 27 20:58:53 <Sparks> jjmcd: I think so
May 27 20:59:38 <jjmcd> OK, we'll just do it then
May 27 20:59:41 <Sparks> jjmcd:  Also, were you able to copy the files over 
from /f11preview to /f11 on docs.fp.o?
May 27 21:00:08 <jjmcd> No, I was working on the build.  You want the 
preview on the web?  I thought that;s where the latest went
May 27 21:00:33 <Sparks> It's already on the web
May 27 21:00:54 <jjmcd> yes, but I didn't think we wanted to call the 
preview the GA
May 27 21:01:00 <ke4qqq> jjmcd: so the background there is that QA 
complained about pointing people to a location that isn't where the release 
notes will be at release
May 27 21:01:19 <stickster> ke4qqq: exactly
May 27 21:01:21 <ke4qqq> ie, they point people to f11preview now, and will 
have to change that
May 27 21:01:21 <Sparks> but we should use /f# and not anything else so 
other people can plan their links
May 27 21:01:31 <jjmcd> OK, so you want to have something there, even if it 
will change in a day or so
May 27 21:01:37 <Sparks> yes
May 27 21:01:45 <jjmcd> K, got that
May 27 21:01:51 <Sparks> jjmcd: do the quaid mantra...  release early, 
release often
May 27 21:01:55 * spoleeba has quit ("Leaving")
May 27 21:01:58 <ke4qqq> and that needs to be codified as our practices
May 27 21:01:58 <jjmcd> :-)
May 27 21:01:58 <stickster> jjmcd: Sparks: I can probably do the CVS moving 
there. CVS sucks for this, because there's no real "move" command
May 27 21:02:09 <stickster> But it sounds like jjmcd has his hands full
May 27 21:02:13 <jjmcd> cool that would help
May 27 21:02:26 <jjmcd> That way I can work on the final instead of pissing 
with cvs
May 27 21:02:42 <Sparks> stickster: Yeah, I was going to do it but the only 
thing I would be able to do is download everything, copy it over, and the 
commit it
May 27 21:02:59 <stickster> Sparks: Well, that's pretty much the *only* way 
to do it afaik.
May 27 21:03:02 <Sparks> which I can do...
May 27 21:03:08 <jjmcd> Sparks: there is a php that needs editing, too
May 27 21:03:21 <stickster> You have to 'cp' locally, then 'cvs add' all the 
new stuff, and 'cvs rm' all the old stuff
May 27 21:03:34 <Sparks> jjmcd: yes...  and we were going to talk to infra 
about doing a redirect
May 27 21:03:34 <stickster> Also, we need Infrastructure to make a redirect 
for f11preview -> f11 there.
May 27 21:03:39 <stickster> *jinx!
May 27 21:03:44 <jjmcd> ahhhh good plan
May 27 21:03:45 <Sparks> ha!
May 27 21:03:52 <Sparks> yeah, what stickster said
May 27 21:05:00 * ricky would be happy to get that after dinner :-)
May 27 21:05:36 <stickster> Sparks: jjmcd: ke4qqq: I think we should do the 
same with that 'f10preview' folder -- nix it and redirect or rewrite to 
f10/.
May 27 21:05:37 <Sparks> stickster: so you are going to move the files?
May 27 21:05:39 <stickster> Sparks: Yes
May 27 21:05:44 <Sparks> yes
May 27 21:05:46 <Sparks> okay, thanks
May 27 21:05:58 <stickster> The f10preview is easier, I'm just going to nuke 
it after the redirect exists.
May 27 21:06:07 <ke4qqq> yes - but better question - how do codify this so 
that we don't repeat the same thing w/ f12
May 27 21:06:23 <stickster> ke4qqq: That sounds like a perfect job for 
Sparks :-)
May 27 21:06:34 <jjmcd> will it be the same if we have zikula?
May 27 21:06:49 <stickster> jjmcd: Apples to oranges, really.
May 27 21:07:03 <ke4qqq> but the principle is the same
May 27 21:07:07 <ke4qqq> just diff. mechanism
May 27 21:07:08 <stickster> And certainly with Zikula publishing and moving 
content is easier.
May 27 21:07:14 <jjmcd> I assume 12 will be a while new experience
May 27 21:07:21 <jjmcd> s/while/whole
May 27 21:07:24 <Sparks> Yeah, I'll work on that
May 27 21:07:30 <stickster> No matter what you guys use, you'll want to have 
your processes available for new people to learn.
May 27 21:07:39 <jjmcd> yep
May 27 21:07:54 <jjmcd> bcotton is probably wondering what we are going on 
about
May 27 21:08:18 * bcotton is understanding about 40% of what's going on :-)
May 27 21:08:45 <stickster> bcotton: Essentially, we have docs published 
right now, at a URL that we really don't want
May 27 21:09:11 * ke4qqq needs to step away for a bit
May 27 21:09:15 <stickster> So we're just discussing how to (1) move them, 
(2) make sure the public that clicks on that old URL gets sent to the new 
content, and (3) we don't do it again :-)
May 27 21:09:58 <bcotton> so i guess my question would be why do we have 
them in a place we dont want
May 27 21:10:22 <Sparks> because no one wrote the standard on how to do 
it... until tonight
May 27 21:10:35 <bcotton> ah, well that makes sense then :-)
May 27 21:10:39 <stickster> bcotton: The rule with open source is, it's OK 
to make a mistake
May 27 21:10:49 <stickster> As long as you are open about it, and fix it :-)
May 27 21:10:51 <jjmcd> And we are the experts
May 27 21:10:55 <jjmcd> at making mistakes
May 27 21:11:03 <stickster> Fail faster, recover faster!
May 27 21:11:41 <bcotton> the only way to learn is to break things and have 
to get them working again
May 27 21:12:23 * Sparks notes a commit for /f11 has occurred
May 27 21:12:34 <stickster> All right, get ready for a mail storm to 
fedora-docs-commits!
May 27 21:12:55 <Sparks> Yikes
May 27 21:13:11 * Sparks is glad those messages go directly into a folder 
that I never look at
May 27 21:13:19 * jjmcd has to write some tickets against that sometime
May 27 21:13:38 <jjmcd> It can be real hard to figure out what is getting 
committed
May 27 21:13:43 <stickster> OK, I'm going to do all the 'cvs add' stuff now.
May 27 21:13:47 <stickster> Then commit.
May 27 21:14:03 <stickster> We'll do the 'cvs rm' on f11preview/ *after* we 
get the redirect/rewrite stuff done from Infrastructure.
May 27 21:14:15 <stickster> That way there's no point where URLs will break 
for anyone
May 27 21:14:30 <Sparks> stickster: Okay.  I'll file a ticket as soon as 
it's there
May 27 21:14:35 * quaid has to check out, later
May 27 21:14:41 <Sparks> quaid: see ya
May 27 21:14:47 <stickster> Sparks: super
May 27 21:17:23 <Sparks> Okay... anything else?
May 27 21:19:23 <jjmcd> bcotton, you might find 
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/documentation-guide/en_US/ch-publishing.html 
interesting
May 27 21:19:43 * stickster all good
May 27 21:20:01 <bcotton> jjmcd, thanks i'll look that over tonight
May 27 21:20:53 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project -  All other 
business
May 27 21:20:57 <Sparks> Anyone have anything else?
May 27 21:21:55 * bcotton has nothing
May 27 21:22:09 <Sparks> 5
May 27 21:22:11 <Sparks> 4
May 27 21:22:16 <Sparks> 3
May 27 21:22:19 <Sparks> 2
May 27 21:22:21 <Sparks> 1
May 27 21:22:24 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming!
May 27 21:22:24 <Sparks> </meeting>
May 27 21:22:24 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Channel is used by 
various Fedora groups and committees for their regular meetings | Note that 
meetings often get logged | For questions about using Fedora please ask in 
#fedora | See http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel 
for meeting schedule
**** ENDING LOGGING AT Wed May 27 21:24:20 2009