From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Oct 1 01:16:21 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:16:21 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-01 IRC Log Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 00:01:39 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01:39 Meeting started Thu Oct 1 00:01:39 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:01:39 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:01:45 #topic Roll Call! 00:01:47 * Sparks 00:02:04 * jjmcd est ici ou la 00:02:36 * ke4qqq is here - believe it or not 00:03:09 * rudi is here 00:03:15 * Sparks just updated the agenda... :) 00:03:18 * quaid esta aqui 00:04:39 * ianweller is here but not watching, mention me if a response is needed... 00:05:08 Okay, let's get started. 00:05:15 #topic Release notes format changes 00:05:22 Couple things on RNs 00:05:31 We are building every night for L10N 00:05:32 jjmcd: Remind me, again, what this is and do we need to keep it on the agenda 00:05:54 Most mornings I have been posting errors to trans list 00:06:15 Props to jjmcd -- this is *excellent* 00:06:16 I notice yesterday juhp and rudi had q1uite a chat about the tables 00:06:21 as did I 00:06:47 Result, really no changes. juhp thought comps might be a better source than primary.sqlite, but it is very incomplete 00:07:00 And now, Sparks, I think you can remove this from the list 00:07:08 Thanks rudi, but purely selfish 00:07:19 jjmcd: This is awesome work! 00:07:22 We get a lot of hard errors fixed by someone else 00:07:23 jjmcd++ 00:07:33 It relocates the work where it really should be? 00:07:47 If I can get someone else to do the work !! ;-)) 00:08:03 :) 00:08:07 ANd some of the translators are really digging in 00:08:13 So... is the plan still to post everything to docs.fp.o and to provide a link in the HELP menu and not the document itself? 00:08:37 I thought we were going to figure out the KDE alternative for yelp 00:08:48 I don't know 00:08:49 or just do yelp 00:08:56 I think that was the result 00:09:08 I know we had discussed a few different ways of doing it 00:09:23 I did intend to go back through the logs -- yeah, we talked about a half-doze approaches 00:09:34 but I had this nagging feeling I had to much with KDE 00:09:34 I'm concerned about the translations and the RPMs 00:09:48 If we make the rpm like F11 no prob 00:10:14 one BIG one or multiple RPMs for different languages? 00:10:30 one big one, like we always have, except not as many formats 00:10:40 Soyou get your lang automatically 00:10:49 Okay 00:11:02 Won't be a shock to anyone that way 00:11:07 yeah 00:11:21 okay, any other questions? 00:12:08 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:12:18 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:12:23 Any update on this? 00:12:47 none to speak of 00:12:59 at least not from me 00:13:06 someone was working on packaging the editor we needed. 00:13:06 mchua|away: and gang are making progress 00:13:19 danielsmw was working the editor iirc 00:13:55 ianweller: Were you going to review the editor package? 00:14:25 was i? 00:14:38 i don't really remember. 00:14:48 ianweller: I think danielsmw was supposed to get with you to work out the errors he was getting... 00:14:58 i never heard from him. 00:15:00 ...and possibly get you to review the package 00:15:01 Okay 00:15:29 I think it was last week Friday that I expected danielsmw to ask for help, never saw him, but I thought ianweller was going to review 00:15:53 i'll happily help out when needed :) 00:15:54 okay 00:16:06 can one of you follow up with him this week, please? 00:16:32 I'll keep an eye out for him, but haven't seen much lately 00:16:50 ke4qqq: Isn't danielsmw down there with you? 00:17:01 he recently started back to college and he's on the 3 year plan - so things are probably a tad busy 00:17:11 I would think so 00:17:11 I'll call him this week and see what's up 00:17:15 ke4qqq: Thanks 00:17:31 #action ke4qqq to follow up with danielsmw on the editor package for Zikula 00:17:39 Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:18:32 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:18:40 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:19:29 ianweller: Are we ready to make the internal announcement? 00:20:00 quaid: Have you done the follow up with the RPM guide? 00:20:39 hrm 00:20:47 ok, here's the two bits. 00:21:09 1. I need to contact Eric Foster-Johnson about relicensing RPM Guide .. he didn't do a CLA, for example. 00:21:44 quaid: Where is the RPM Guide? I don't remember what that is, exactly. 00:21:48 2. We have some issues to work through still with the Max RPM content; there is a contributor who doesn't want to have their content relicensed nor have attribution. 00:21:57 we have it in cvs or git or something 00:22:24 We were going to add more development and include the Max RPM content? 00:22:38 yeah, the idea was to have both to meld in to one, new, shiny RPM Guide. 00:22:55 What are the current licenses? 00:23:31 Sparks: hi 00:23:42 sorry 00:23:55 OPL clean for RPM Guide, OPL + non-free clauses for Max RPM 00:24:11 Well that's a problem. 00:24:32 not if they are relicensed to the same CC BY SA :) 00:24:45 someone (Sparks) tell me if we're ready and i will make the announcement on docs-list devel-announce advisory-board etc 00:25:03 quaid: Yeah... IF 00:25:30 Okay... so here's the deal. I want the license change over done within the next two weeks. Is that feasible? 00:26:01 We can change the license and then reject the RPM guides if they don't want to play ball, imo. 00:26:16 rudi: Can you have publican updated within a week or two? 00:26:18 oh, yeah 00:26:20 do we have to relicense them? 00:26:26 RPM stuff is totally non-critical path 00:26:32 Yep -- I'm just waiting for someone to pull the trigger 00:26:42 move ahead with relicensing without worrying about RPM content 00:26:50 Okay. 00:27:02 #action ianweller to figure out how to change the license on the wiki 00:27:03 :) 00:27:05 ianweller: Go ahead and put the word out internally 00:27:05 that was all a courtesy/interest; that's RPM.org stuff, people here just said, "I'd like to help," so I took on that relicensing too :) 00:27:12 Sparks: ok 00:27:34 will do that in a couple of hours 00:27:38 This license change will NOT affect stuff in git... etc. 00:27:42 ianweller: Thanks 00:27:47 Sparks: is that on the announcement draft? 00:27:49 let's go over that. 00:27:54 cuz that's what i'm gonna copy/paste. 00:28:02 The license change will affect stuff on the wiki and stuff we publish 00:28:05 that requires i find it 00:28:22 ianweller: Doh! I didn't link to it anywhere! 00:28:49 #action rudi to change the license information in the publican brands for Fedora 00:29:11 Sparks -- so is that a green light now? 00:29:20 * ianweller hunts in his email box 00:29:24 rudi: Yes 00:29:27 OK 00:29:40 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release - -- the bottom one. 00:29:47 let's discuss that. 00:30:02 rudi: I'm going to shoot a message to the list to make sure that all guide owners are aware of the upcoming change. Just reply to that when you get it all straight, please. 00:30:13 Will do 00:31:25 ianweller: Looks good. Should we make a wiki page that says why we are doing this and maybe some FAQs and post that link in that announcement? 00:31:38 Sparks: that would be pretty awesome. 00:31:52 i'm working on an english project right now so if somebody could do that tonight i will buy them a drink 00:32:10 Of course we'd need some folks to ask questions so we'd know what is a FAQ 00:32:19 "what's CC" 00:32:25 "why is the OPL bad" 00:32:30 "why is CC better" 00:32:30 "why is it better than OPL" 00:32:32 "what's the scope of this change" 00:32:38 uh, did't I write all that? 00:32:45 you did yeah. 00:32:52 but not as a FAQ! 00:32:53 i think. 00:32:53 quaid: Where? 00:32:59 Sparks: on the announcement 00:33:03 FAQe (pronounced "fake") 00:33:06 one sec 00:33:07 lole 00:33:24 quaid: Yeah, you did. 00:33:26 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Relicensing_OPL_to_CC_BY_SA 00:33:29 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Relicensing_OPL_to_CC_BY_SA 00:33:32 well HEY 00:33:48 some of those links don't look right ... 00:33:53 maybe I left stubs for more? 00:33:57 whoa. 00:34:04 Ummm 00:34:17 I don't think we are relicensing Fedora Hosted... are we? 00:34:24 no, see 00:34:24 stubs 00:34:25 I could see some potential problems. 00:34:28 Oh 00:34:29 for all of the guides we have there 00:34:38 just fill in whatever 00:34:54 but yeah i still need somebody awesome to turn that page into an FAQ perhaps 00:34:58 yeah, last history is 'interim save' meaning I never got it to deserving a full comment block 00:35:11 quaid: hah 00:35:14 quaid: Can I use your blog text on the page? 00:35:57 Sparks: natch! 00:36:14 I hereby license it under CC BY SA, with attribution being a link back to the original post 00:36:43 * quaid dual licenses it under OPL for the time being 00:36:50 so it can be put on the page until he license change :D 00:36:56 isn't copyright fun! 00:37:04 quaid: I'm going to need that in writing, please. :) 00:37:18 that isn't writing? ;) 00:37:59 I need a paper 00:38:20 On advice from my attorney-in-training... 00:38:25 nope, IRC log is good enough 00:38:31 on advice from my monkey council 00:38:46 :) 00:39:10 * Sparks really didn't ask her as she's currently writing a motion for her case and I'd hate to become a part of that case 00:39:40 * ianweller makes a motion 00:39:43 * ianweller dances on the floor 00:39:56 quaid: ok so i'm volunteering you to faqize that faqe 00:40:25 ha 00:40:29 good luck with that 00:40:36 ;) 00:40:46 hey, you know what would help here? 00:40:51 a drink? 00:40:54 can we get a quick list of the guides in f'hosted? 00:40:56 yeh, that too 00:41:00 that we want to switch? 00:42:00 * quaid edits the page to put them in 00:42:08 Okay, I just pasted that into the wiki page but it's ugly... I'll be fixing that later. 00:42:12 um, if it's done for now? 00:42:13 ok 00:42:26 * quaid is adding in the fhosted list so will fix some formatting now 00:42:49 quaid: Do we want to selectively list the guides we are relicensing or just say "all guides"? 00:44:02 hmm 00:44:13 I have it as a task to email *all* contributors, past and present 00:44:14 as a courtesy 00:44:21 so it would help if we had a definitive list 00:44:24 I think ... 00:44:53 Is that even possible? 00:45:17 theoretically 00:45:29 I could get a good list of names with a few hours in cvs and f'hosted 00:45:44 I know the security guide has been in so many different formats and changed/modified that I don't know what kind of paper trail is even left. 00:45:48 it's a courtesy move; if we cannot reach people, it's not a game stopper. 00:45:54 ah 00:46:00 yeah, well, I mayn't look for wiki stuff 00:46:01 the SG came from the wiki... 00:46:04 just thinking Install guide, etc. 00:46:08 yeah, I get that 00:46:11 and I mean MOIN wiki 00:46:16 heh 00:46:23 * quaid can get his hands on that stuff, too 00:46:30 ok ... 00:46:40 well, it might be futile; and it's NOT on the critical path. 00:46:44 Not trying to discourage... :) 00:46:47 ok, back to the question at hand ... 00:46:49 I have: 00:46:52 Wiki 00:46:56 Installation guide 00:46:59 Release notes 00:47:04 Security guide 00:47:07 SELiux guide 00:47:11 adding ... 00:47:14 Deployment guide 00:47:56 else? 00:48:04 Assessibility Guide 00:48:18 is that fhosted.org/accessibility-guide? 00:48:48 I think so... I just put it there a few months ago. It used to be in the RN up to F9 or F10 00:49:19 /me looking for 'guide' on fh.o 00:49:30 That's a good start. :) 00:50:56 quaid: You should see one in there for an Amateur Radio Guide but there's nothing there, yet, and should be jjmcd and I working on that so no worries there. 00:51:21 http://svn.fedoraproject.org/svn/Deployment_Guide/ ? 00:51:37 What's the question? 00:51:48 http://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide 00:52:00 it's weird for both to appear, first seems empty; old? 00:52:10 New! 00:52:16 ah, or that 00:52:27 perspectival is working on that one 00:52:32 Doesn't seem to be here right now 00:53:51 any others? 00:54:21 Add Virtualization Guide 00:54:36 yeah 00:54:41 I'm rolling down the page 00:54:45 about-fedora etc. 00:55:04 what is http://git.fedoraproject.org/git/redhatsecurityguide.git 00:55:05 v. 00:55:14 https://fedorahosted.org/securityguide/ 00:55:33 Don't know what the first one is... the second one should be the "fedora" sg 00:55:47 * quaid wishes we had all stuck with the "- is the space designator" for hosted project guide names 00:56:05 some with, some without, and now a bunch of New_Style 00:56:09 Publican works better with _ 00:56:47 * quaid rolls his eyes and bites his tongue 00:56:57 Yeah, well, I agree 00:57:00 probably not worth changing the other names 00:57:17 * quaid *cough* you know, from the names similar to Fedora Packaging Standards 00:57:34 ok, we don't have to kill the mtg with this 00:57:41 I'll publish the updated page in a few. 00:57:48 Okay 00:57:53 anything else on this topic? 00:58:08 #link https://fedorahosted.org/rpmguide/ 00:58:13 for the record 00:58:49 Okay... lets cut down to the meat and potatoes... 00:58:55 #topic Guide needs? 00:59:01 * ianweller has to run 00:59:02 Any guides have any needs? 00:59:27 ianweller: See ya 00:59:33 Sparks - use same image conventions as user guide? 00:59:42 i.e. images/chapter 00:59:51 sure 01:00:52 #topic New Guides 01:00:56 Any new guides? 01:01:31 #topic All other business 01:01:39 Any other items that need to be discussed? 01:02:16 5 01:02:20 4 01:02:23 3 01:02:25 2 01:02:28 1 01:02:35 Okay, thanks everyone for coming! 01:02:38 #endmeeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.8) iEYEARECAAYFAkrEAuMACgkQfQTSQL0MFMHIHwCghLAc8q0ZMYJs2CGvU4uDqo0k /h0AoInawyazbqAzxKCYziwkQEXi1YIX =Y7/u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Oct 1 01:17:49 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 21:17:49 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-01 Summary Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:01:39 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-10-01/fedora-meeting.2009-10-01-00.01.log.html . Meeting summary - --------------- * Roll Call! (Sparks, 00:01:45) * Release notes format changes (Sparks, 00:05:15) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (Sparks, 00:12:08) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks, 00:12:18) * ACTION: ke4qqq to follow up with danielsmw on the editor package for Zikula (Sparks, 00:17:31) * Status on CC license rollout. (Sparks, 00:18:32) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule (Sparks, 00:18:40) * ACTION: ianweller to figure out how to change the license on the wiki (ianweller, 00:27:02) * ACTION: rudi to change the license information in the publican brands for Fedora (Sparks, 00:28:49) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release -- the bottom one. (ianweller, 00:29:40) * LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Relicensing_OPL_to_CC_BY_SA (quaid, 00:33:26) * LINK: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Relicensing_OPL_to_CC_BY_SA (quaid, 00:33:29) * LINK: http://svn.fedoraproject.org/svn/Deployment_Guide/ ? (quaid, 00:51:21) * LINK: http://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide (quaid, 00:51:48) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/securityguide/ (quaid, 00:55:14) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/rpmguide/ (quaid, 00:58:08) * Guide needs? (Sparks, 00:58:55) * New Guides (Sparks, 01:00:52) * All other business (Sparks, 01:01:31) Meeting ended at 01:02:38 UTC. Action Items - ------------ * ke4qqq to follow up with danielsmw on the editor package for Zikula * ianweller to figure out how to change the license on the wiki * rudi to change the license information in the publican brands for Fedora Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * ianweller * ianweller to figure out how to change the license on the wiki * ke4qqq * ke4qqq to follow up with danielsmw on the editor package for Zikula * rudi * rudi to change the license information in the publican brands for Fedora * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * Sparks (100) * quaid (91) * ianweller (41) * jjmcd (28) * rudi (12) * ke4qqq (6) * zodbot (2) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.8) iEYEARECAAYFAkrEAzwACgkQfQTSQL0MFMG8KQCeNFcr5V93Ew2kE4EzYD/S8T5z duoAnA0by13Tpfe8n09RjwBAVl0n3LEJ =Wn84 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 12:35:53 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 08:35:53 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-01 IRC Log In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091001123553.GD17320@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 09:16:21PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: [...snip...] > 00:05:08 Okay, let's get started. > 00:05:15 #topic Release notes format changes > 00:05:22 Couple things on RNs > 00:05:31 We are building every night for L10N [...snip...] The log seems to be missing the names of the speakers. I imagine meetbot has the missing bits though. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Oct 1 13:29:05 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:29:05 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-01 IRC Log In-Reply-To: <20091001123553.GD17320@localhost.localdomain> References: <20091001123553.GD17320@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Opps... Let me see if I can remedy that. On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 08:35, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Wed, Sep 30, 2009 at 09:16:21PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > [...snip...] >> 00:05:08 ?Okay, let's get started. >> 00:05:15 ?#topic Release notes format changes >> 00:05:22 ?Couple things on RNs >> 00:05:31 ?We are building every night for L10N > [...snip...] > > The log seems to be missing the names of the speakers. ?I imagine > meetbot has the missing bits though. > > -- > Paul W. Frields ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://paul.frields.org/ > ?gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 ?5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > ?http://redhat.com/ ? - ?- ?- ?- ? http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > ?irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Oct 1 13:32:40 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 09:32:40 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-01 IRC Log In-Reply-To: References: <20091001123553.GD17320@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: 00:01:39 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01:39 Meeting started Thu Oct 1 00:01:39 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:01:39 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:01:45 #topic Roll Call! 00:01:47 * Sparks 00:02:04 * jjmcd est ici ou la 00:02:36 * ke4qqq is here - believe it or not 00:03:09 * rudi is here 00:03:15 * Sparks just updated the agenda... :) 00:03:18 * quaid esta aqui 00:04:39 * ianweller is here but not watching, mention me if a response is needed... 00:05:08 Okay, let's get started. 00:05:15 #topic Release notes format changes 00:05:22 Couple things on RNs 00:05:31 We are building every night for L10N 00:05:32 jjmcd: Remind me, again, what this is and do we need to keep it on the agenda 00:05:54 Most mornings I have been posting errors to trans list 00:06:15 Props to jjmcd -- this is *excellent* 00:06:16 I notice yesterday juhp and rudi had q1uite a chat about the tables 00:06:21 as did I 00:06:47 Result, really no changes. juhp thought comps might be a better source than primary.sqlite, but it is very incomplete 00:07:00 And now, Sparks, I think you can remove this from the list 00:07:08 Thanks rudi, but purely selfish 00:07:19 jjmcd: This is awesome work! 00:07:22 We get a lot of hard errors fixed by someone else 00:07:23 jjmcd++ 00:07:33 <<--- lazy 00:07:47 It relocates the work where it really should be? 00:07:47 If I can get someone else to do the work !! ;-)) 00:08:03 :) 00:08:07 ANd some of the translators are really digging in 00:08:13 So... is the plan still to post everything to docs.fp.o and to provide a link in the HELP menu and not the document itself? 00:08:37 I thought we were going to figure out the KDE alternative for yelp 00:08:48 I don't know 00:08:49 or just do yelp 00:08:56 I think that was the result 00:09:08 I know we had discussed a few different ways of doing it 00:09:23 I did intend to go back through the logs -- yeah, we talked about a half-doze approaches 00:09:34 but I had this nagging feeling I had to much with KDE 00:09:34 I'm concerned about the translations and the RPMs 00:09:48 If we make the rpm like F11 no prob 00:10:14 one BIG one or multiple RPMs for different languages? 00:10:30 one big one, like we always have, except not as many formats 00:10:40 Soyou get your lang automatically 00:10:49 Okay 00:11:02 Won't be a shock to anyone that way 00:11:07 yeah 00:11:21 okay, any other questions? 00:12:08 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:12:18 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:12:23 Any update on this? 00:12:47 none to speak of 00:12:59 at least not from me 00:13:06 someone was working on packaging the editor we needed. 00:13:06 mchua|away: and gang are making progress 00:13:19 danielsmw was working the editor iirc 00:13:55 ianweller: Were you going to review the editor package? 00:14:25 was i? 00:14:38 i don't really remember. 00:14:48 ianweller: I think danielsmw was supposed to get with you to work out the errors he was getting... 00:14:58 i never heard from him. 00:15:00 ...and possibly get you to review the package 00:15:01 Okay 00:15:29 I think it was last week Friday that I expected danielsmw to ask for help, never saw him, but I thought ianweller was going to review 00:15:53 i'll happily help out when needed :) 00:15:54 okay 00:16:06 can one of you follow up with him this week, please? 00:16:32 I'll keep an eye out for him, but haven't seen much lately 00:16:50 ke4qqq: Isn't danielsmw down there with you? 00:17:01 he recently started back to college and he's on the 3 year plan - so things are probably a tad busy 00:17:11 I would think so 00:17:11 I'll call him this week and see what's up 00:17:15 ke4qqq: Thanks 00:17:31 #action ke4qqq to follow up with danielsmw on the editor package for Zikula 00:17:39 Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:18:32 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:18:40 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:19:29 ianweller: Are we ready to make the internal announcement? 00:20:00 quaid: Have you done the follow up with the RPM guide? 00:20:39 hrm 00:20:47 ok, here's the two bits. 00:21:09 1. I need to contact Eric Foster-Johnson about relicensing RPM Guide .. he didn't do a CLA, for example. 00:21:44 quaid: Where is the RPM Guide? I don't remember what that is, exactly. 00:21:48 2. We have some issues to work through still with the Max RPM content; there is a contributor who doesn't want to have their content relicensed nor have attribution. 00:21:57 we have it in cvs or git or something 00:22:24 We were going to add more development and include the Max RPM content? 00:22:38 yeah, the idea was to have both to meld in to one, new, shiny RPM Guide. 00:22:55 What are the current licenses? 00:23:31 Sparks: hi 00:23:42 sorry 00:23:55 OPL clean for RPM Guide, OPL + non-free clauses for Max RPM 00:24:11 Well that's a problem. 00:24:32 not if they are relicensed to the same CC BY SA :) 00:24:45 someone (Sparks) tell me if we're ready and i will make the announcement on docs-list devel-announce advisory-board etc 00:25:03 quaid: Yeah... IF 00:25:30 Okay... so here's the deal. I want the license change over done within the next two weeks. Is that feasible? 00:26:01 We can change the license and then reject the RPM guides if they don't want to play ball, imo. 00:26:16 rudi: Can you have publican updated within a week or two? 00:26:18 oh, yeah 00:26:20 do we have to relicense them? 00:26:26 RPM stuff is totally non-critical path 00:26:32 Yep -- I'm just waiting for someone to pull the trigger 00:26:42 move ahead with relicensing without worrying about RPM content 00:26:50 Okay. 00:27:02 #action ianweller to figure out how to change the license on the wiki 00:27:03 :) 00:27:05 ianweller: Go ahead and put the word out internally 00:27:05 that was all a courtesy/interest; that's RPM.org stuff, people here just said, "I'd like to help," so I took on that relicensing too :) 00:27:12 Sparks: ok 00:27:34 will do that in a couple of hours 00:27:38 This license change will NOT affect stuff in git... etc. 00:27:42 ianweller: Thanks 00:27:47 Sparks: is that on the announcement draft? 00:27:49 let's go over that. 00:27:54 cuz that's what i'm gonna copy/paste. 00:28:02 The license change will affect stuff on the wiki and stuff we publish 00:28:05 that requires i find it 00:28:22 ianweller: Doh! I didn't link to it anywhere! 00:28:49 #action rudi to change the license information in the publican brands for Fedora 00:29:11 Sparks -- so is that a green light now? 00:29:20 * ianweller hunts in his email box 00:29:24 rudi: Yes 00:29:27 OK 00:29:40 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release -- the bottom one. 00:29:47 let's discuss that. 00:30:02 rudi: I'm going to shoot a message to the list to make sure that all guide owners are aware of the upcoming change. Just reply to that when you get it all straight, please. 00:30:13 Will do 00:31:25 ianweller: Looks good. Should we make a wiki page that says why we are doing this and maybe some FAQs and post that link in that announcement? 00:31:38 Sparks: that would be pretty awesome. 00:31:52 i'm working on an english project right now so if somebody could do that tonight i will buy them a drink 00:32:10 Of course we'd need some folks to ask questions so we'd know what is a FAQ 00:32:19 "what's CC" 00:32:25 "why is the OPL bad" 00:32:30 "why is CC better" 00:32:30 "why is it better than OPL" 00:32:32 "what's the scope of this change" 00:32:38 uh, did't I write all that? 00:32:45 you did yeah. 00:32:52 but not as a FAQ! 00:32:53 i think. 00:32:53 quaid: Where? 00:32:59 Sparks: on the announcement 00:33:03 FAQe (pronounced "fake") 00:33:06 one sec 00:33:07 lole 00:33:24 quaid: Yeah, you did. 00:33:26 http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Relicensing_OPL_to_CC_BY_SA 00:33:29 #link http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Relicensing_OPL_to_CC_BY_SA 00:33:32 well HEY 00:33:48 some of those links don't look right ... 00:33:53 maybe I left stubs for more? 00:33:57 whoa. 00:34:04 Ummm 00:34:17 I don't think we are relicensing Fedora Hosted... are we? 00:34:24 no, see 00:34:24 stubs 00:34:25 I could see some potential problems. 00:34:28 Oh 00:34:29 for all of the guides we have there 00:34:38 just fill in whatever 00:34:54 but yeah i still need somebody awesome to turn that page into an FAQ perhaps 00:34:58 yeah, last history is 'interim save' meaning I never got it to deserving a full comment block 00:35:11 quaid: hah 00:35:14 quaid: Can I use your blog text on the page? 00:35:57 Sparks: natch! 00:36:14 I hereby license it under CC BY SA, with attribution being a link back to the original post 00:36:43 * quaid dual licenses it under OPL for the time being 00:36:50 so it can be put on the page until he license change :D 00:36:56 isn't copyright fun! 00:37:04 quaid: I'm going to need that in writing, please. :) 00:37:18 that isn't writing? ;) 00:37:59 I need a paper 00:38:20 On advice from my attorney-in-training... 00:38:25 nope, IRC log is good enough 00:38:31 on advice from my monkey council 00:38:46 :) 00:39:10 * Sparks really didn't ask her as she's currently writing a motion for her case and I'd hate to become a part of that case 00:39:40 * ianweller makes a motion 00:39:43 * ianweller dances on the floor 00:39:56 quaid: ok so i'm volunteering you to faqize that faqe 00:40:25 ha 00:40:29 good luck with that 00:40:36 ;) 00:40:46 hey, you know what would help here? 00:40:51 a drink? 00:40:54 can we get a quick list of the guides in f'hosted? 00:40:56 yeh, that too 00:41:00 that we want to switch? 00:42:00 * quaid edits the page to put them in 00:42:08 Okay, I just pasted that into the wiki page but it's ugly... I'll be fixing that later. 00:42:12 um, if it's done for now? 00:42:13 ok 00:42:26 * quaid is adding in the fhosted list so will fix some formatting now 00:42:49 quaid: Do we want to selectively list the guides we are relicensing or just say "all guides"? 00:44:02 hmm 00:44:13 I have it as a task to email *all* contributors, past and present 00:44:14 as a courtesy 00:44:21 so it would help if we had a definitive list 00:44:24 I think ... 00:44:53 Is that even possible? 00:45:17 theoretically 00:45:29 I could get a good list of names with a few hours in cvs and f'hosted 00:45:44 I know the security guide has been in so many different formats and changed/modified that I don't know what kind of paper trail is even left. 00:45:48 it's a courtesy move; if we cannot reach people, it's not a game stopper. 00:45:54 ah 00:46:00 yeah, well, I mayn't look for wiki stuff 00:46:01 the SG came from the wiki... 00:46:04 just thinking Install guide, etc. 00:46:08 yeah, I get that 00:46:11 and I mean MOIN wiki 00:46:16 heh 00:46:23 * quaid can get his hands on that stuff, too 00:46:30 ok ... 00:46:40 well, it might be futile; and it's NOT on the critical path. 00:46:44 Not trying to discourage... :) 00:46:47 ok, back to the question at hand ... 00:46:49 I have: 00:46:52 Wiki 00:46:56 Installation guide 00:46:59 Release notes 00:47:04 Security guide 00:47:07 SELiux guide 00:47:11 adding ... 00:47:14 Deployment guide 00:47:56 else? 00:48:04 Assessibility Guide 00:48:18 is that fhosted.org/accessibility-guide? 00:48:48 I think so... I just put it there a few months ago. It used to be in the RN up to F9 or F10 00:49:19 /me looking for 'guide' on fh.o 00:49:30 That's a good start. :) 00:50:56 quaid: You should see one in there for an Amateur Radio Guide but there's nothing there, yet, and should be jjmcd and I working on that so no worries there. 00:51:21 http://svn.fedoraproject.org/svn/Deployment_Guide/ ? 00:51:37 What's the question? 00:51:48 http://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide 00:52:00 it's weird for both to appear, first seems empty; old? 00:52:10 New! 00:52:16 ah, or that 00:52:27 perspectival is working on that one 00:52:32 Doesn't seem to be here right now 00:53:51 any others? 00:54:21 Add Virtualization Guide 00:54:36 yeah 00:54:41 I'm rolling down the page 00:54:45 about-fedora etc. 00:55:04 what is http://git.fedoraproject.org/git/redhatsecurityguide.git 00:55:05 v. 00:55:14 https://fedorahosted.org/securityguide/ 00:55:33 Don't know what the first one is... the second one should be the "fedora" sg 00:55:47 * quaid wishes we had all stuck with the "- is the space designator" for hosted project guide names 00:56:05 some with, some without, and now a bunch of New_Style 00:56:09 Publican works better with _ 00:56:47 * quaid rolls his eyes and bites his tongue 00:56:57 Yeah, well, I agree 00:57:00 probably not worth changing the other names 00:57:17 * quaid *cough* you know, from the names similar to Fedora Packaging Standards 00:57:34 ok, we don't have to kill the mtg with this 00:57:41 I'll publish the updated page in a few. 00:57:48 Okay 00:57:53 anything else on this topic? 00:58:08 #link https://fedorahosted.org/rpmguide/ 00:58:13 for the record 00:58:49 Okay... lets cut down to the meat and potatoes... 00:58:55 #topic Guide needs? 00:59:01 * ianweller has to run 00:59:02 Any guides have any needs? 00:59:27 ianweller: See ya 00:59:33 Sparks - use same image conventions as user guide? 00:59:42 i.e. images/chapter 00:59:51 sure 01:00:52 #topic New Guides 01:00:56 Any new guides? 01:01:31 #topic All other business 01:01:39 Any other items that need to be discussed? 01:02:16 5 01:02:20 4 01:02:23 3 01:02:25 2 01:02:28 1 01:02:35 Okay, thanks everyone for coming! 01:02:38 #endmeeting From r.landmann at redhat.com Thu Oct 1 17:08:19 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 03:08:19 +1000 Subject: Fedora 12 docs now available in Transifex In-Reply-To: <4AC4E079.4030104@gmail.com> References: <4AC4DE31.5070301@redhat.com> <4AC4E079.4030104@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC4E203.1060201@redhat.com> On 10/02/2009 03:01 AM, Piotr Dr?g wrote: > W dniu 01.10.2009 18:52, Ruediger Landmann pisze: >> Sorry that, we're a little behind schedule, but Fedora 12 docs are now >> available in Transifex: >> > > Many thanks for making that possible! > > Just one question. Do you want to disable translation submitting to > Fedora 11 branches? Some people are still working on them. I don't know > if Docs Project is going to publish their updates to F11 documents. > I wondered about this -- it seems to make sense. So yes, please, wherever an f12 doc is available, please disable submission to the f11 doc. I think we can leave the branches there until f11 goes unsupported. On the other hand, if anyone in L10N really wants to complete an f11 doc that they're working on, please say so -- I'll make sure that any f11 doc that gets completed will get published. Cheers Ruediger From dhensley at redhat.com Thu Oct 1 21:06:33 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 23:06:33 +0200 Subject: 2nd Draft Ready for Review: Ch. 2: PackageKit Message-ID: <4AC519D9.4010607@redhat.com> I have completed the second draft of the PackageKit chapter for the Fedora 12 Deployment Guide, which you can see here: http://dsilas.fedorapeople.org/Deployment_Guide/en-US/html-single/#ch-graphical_package_management I have incorporated a lot of much-appreciated feedback from Richard Hughes and Matthias Clasen of the PackageKit team and Rahul Kavalapara into this draft. Notable changes: * all screenshots have been improved and some added * discussion of PackageKit's architecture has been moved to the end of the chapter, though linked to from the opening paragraph * explanation of the architecture corrected and expanded * filter descriptions corrected and expanded (including Only native packages) * TOC entries streamlined Remaining issues: * I still need a screenshot of the proper Authenticate (for update purposes) dialog on F12 Alpha (if someone can provide this, at full size in GIMP's .xcf format if possible) * not all text in Log and Architecture sections is formatted (read: bold) yet (waiting for review of accuracy) Review and feedback is welcome from everyone. For details on how to get involved in the Fedora 12 Deployment Guide update, see the project page (and join the mailing list) at: https://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide/ Cheers, -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From awilliam at redhat.com Thu Oct 1 23:53:18 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 16:53:18 -0700 Subject: HOWTO debug dracut In-Reply-To: <4AC53DB9.9030103@hi.is> References: <4AC5047D.8020609@redhat.com> <1254427354.2269.32.camel@adam.local.net> <4AC528B2.6070107@hi.is> <1254435965.2269.41.camel@adam.local.net> <4AC53DB9.9030103@hi.is> Message-ID: <1254441198.2269.51.camel@adam.local.net> On Thu, 2009-10-01 at 23:39 +0000, "J?hann B. Gu?mundsson" wrote: > set while other > voices in the community think that they should have University, RHCE > or > some other degree stuck up their ass to be able to participate in > testing or other aspects of the community I think you're setting up a straw man here. I haven't seen anyone on this list suggest any such thing, and I don't see that any of the existing pages are intentionally written in this way. It would be good to have consistent styles for such pages, but there's no need to set it up in such a confrontational way. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From awilliam at redhat.com Fri Oct 2 04:02:11 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Thu, 01 Oct 2009 21:02:11 -0700 Subject: HOWTO debug dracut In-Reply-To: <4AC558D1.6020605@hi.is> References: <4AC5047D.8020609@redhat.com> <1254427354.2269.32.camel@adam.local.net> <4AC528B2.6070107@hi.is> <1254435965.2269.41.camel@adam.local.net> <4AC53DB9.9030103@hi.is> <1254441198.2269.51.camel@adam.local.net> <4AC558D1.6020605@hi.is> Message-ID: <1254456131.2269.56.camel@adam.local.net> On Fri, 2009-10-02 at 01:35 +0000, "J?hann B. Gu?mundsson" wrote: > As I said "other voices" I never said they resided on this list ( I dont > keep tap who's on this list or any other list for that matter ) however > you should recall atleast one such debate when we rewrote/redesigned the > QA frontpage on the wiki.. I feel we definitively needs some wiki rules It would help if you'd split things into paragraphs, my eyes keep glazing over after four lines... > and regulations. When I started to write wiki pages I was pointed out > that I should write those pages on my name space followed by pointing > other members of the community to that page and if the community was > happy with the content/layout it would be move to the front if not I > should A) rewrite the page according to suggestion and resubmit or B) > those that did not agree with the content layout of that page should > draft what ever they think it should look like and submit that. That's the procedure we follow for particularly significant and important pages - like the most popular few pages for a group (the Bugzappers front page, joining page etc). It doesn't scale to _every page in the Wiki_, there just aren't the resources to review everything. For a less significant page like this, it doesn't need review. > if I > would change an already published wiki page I should comment in the page > it self why I made those changes . That's not correct, you should explain in the comment box when you make the change. If you need a longer justification than that space allows, put it on the Talk page. > Now I had barely finished wikifying > for example Sysrq ( Now https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/QA/Sysrq ) and > was waiting for feed back from the community ( for example if it was > simple/clear enough ) when it got yanked out of my personal space and > dump where it resides now ( which probably not where the wiki admins > want it to reside ). That sounds strange, I didn't know anything about it happening at the time. Who moved it? What was the rationale? Having said that, that's probably an example of a page it's fine to just create directly - it's not crucial enough to require drafting and formal review, though of course it's always good to get other people's opinions on the page if you can :) > Either we create pages at will submit them when > accepted they get move to the front then if a rewriting ( other than > minor changes such as typo fixing etc ) occurs the individual that wants > to rewrite the current page does so on his own name space and submits > his changes or everybody hack everything everywhere on the wiki and > constantly play wiki rewriting ping pong game of how their perception on > how things should look/be written. In practice, it's usually easy to compromise. Since everyone's basically pointing in the same direction here, and it's easy to collaborate, that kind of ping-ponging doesn't happen too often. When it does get started, we can agree to bring both perspectives to a meeting or ML discussion and decide on the best approach with the approval of the rest of the group. > One half says user your own namespace > and submit your suggestion comment when changing.the other halfs says > wanna change something on the wiki change it. I think the community > needs to agree on which way it should be. As I said, I don't think this is an area where there needs to be One True Way. Different groups and different pages can take different approaches. As long as the information gets out there in the end, it's okay. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From piotrdrag at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 10:56:16 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Fri, 02 Oct 2009 12:56:16 +0200 Subject: web/html/docs drafts.php,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <20091002033633.E7AEC11C0261@cvs1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> References: <20091002033633.E7AEC11C0261@cvs1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AC5DC50.2000700@gmail.com> W dniu 02.10.2009 05:36, R?diger Landmann pisze: > + Could you please change all "Polski" strings to "polski"? Just to be comply with Polish orthography. :) -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From r.landmann at redhat.com Fri Oct 2 22:06:27 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 08:06:27 +1000 Subject: web/html/docs drafts.php,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <4AC5DC50.2000700@gmail.com> References: <20091002033633.E7AEC11C0261@cvs1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <4AC5DC50.2000700@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC67963.3040801@redhat.com> On 10/02/2009 08:56 PM, Piotr Dr?g wrote: > W dniu 02.10.2009 05:36, R?diger Landmann pisze: >> + >> > > Could you please change all "Polski" strings to "polski"? Just to be > comply with Polish orthography. :) > Sure Piotr; but could you confirm that it is never correct to capitalise the name of the language, even when it's used as a heading? I was looking for a neat solution, like the one that Wikipedia adopted (look at the inter-language links at the left side of any major article), but am happy to change it if this is wrong under all circumstances... Cheers Ruediger From piotrdrag at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 22:17:21 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:17:21 +0200 Subject: web/html/docs drafts.php,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <4AC67963.3040801@redhat.com> References: <20091002033633.E7AEC11C0261@cvs1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <4AC5DC50.2000700@gmail.com> <4AC67963.3040801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AC67BF1.6010702@gmail.com> W dniu 03.10.2009 00:06, Ruediger Landmann pisze: > Sure Piotr; but could you confirm that it is never correct to capitalise > the name of the language, even when it's used as a heading? > > I was looking for a neat solution, like the one that Wikipedia adopted > (look at the inter-language links at the left side of any major > article), but am happy to change it if this is wrong under all > circumstances... > It is of course capitalized at the beginning of the sentence. As of heading and lists on websites and UI, we (as Polish Fedora and GNOME translators) prefer using the form "polski". You can look at the languages lists in GDM or anaconda. -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From r.landmann at redhat.com Fri Oct 2 22:30:29 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 08:30:29 +1000 Subject: web/html/docs drafts.php,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <4AC67BF1.6010702@gmail.com> References: <20091002033633.E7AEC11C0261@cvs1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <4AC5DC50.2000700@gmail.com> <4AC67963.3040801@redhat.com> <4AC67BF1.6010702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AC67F05.4080202@redhat.com> On 10/03/2009 08:17 AM, Piotr Dr?g wrote: > > It is of course capitalized at the beginning of the sentence. As of > heading and lists on websites and UI, we (as Polish Fedora and GNOME > translators) prefer using the form "polski". You can look at the > languages lists in GDM or anaconda. > NP -- I'll fix it! From piotrdrag at gmail.com Fri Oct 2 22:34:30 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 00:34:30 +0200 Subject: web/html/docs drafts.php,1.5,1.6 In-Reply-To: <4AC67F05.4080202@redhat.com> References: <20091002033633.E7AEC11C0261@cvs1.fedora.phx.redhat.com> <4AC5DC50.2000700@gmail.com> <4AC67963.3040801@redhat.com> <4AC67BF1.6010702@gmail.com> <4AC67F05.4080202@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AC67FF6.10801@gmail.com> W dniu 03.10.2009 00:30, Ruediger Landmann pisze: > NP -- I'll fix it! > Many thanks! It's hardly a priority, so you don't need to hurry with it. :) -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From ian at ianweller.org Sat Oct 3 21:39:02 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 16:39:02 -0500 Subject: ready to send out license changeover email on monday Message-ID: <20091003213902.GA23061@deathray.ianweller.org> Thanks to Karsten filling in the appropriate wiki page, I'm ready to send out this email: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release#To_send_to_fedora-announce-list on Monday. It will go to the following lists: fedora-announce-list fedora-devel-announce fedora-advisory-board fedora-docs-list (It should probably go to a translator's list as well but I don't know which one, and I'd need it approved when I send it since I'm not subscribed to one.) Let me know what modifications you would make to either the email or the recipients before about 19:00 UTC Monday. Happy weekend :) -- Ian Weller "Why, a four-year-old could understand this report. Find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail out of it." -- Groucho Marx, "Duck Soup" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From piotrdrag at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 21:58:06 2009 From: piotrdrag at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?B?UGlvdHIgRHLEhWc=?=) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 23:58:06 +0200 Subject: ready to send out license changeover email on monday In-Reply-To: <20091003213902.GA23061@deathray.ianweller.org> References: <20091003213902.GA23061@deathray.ianweller.org> Message-ID: <4AC7C8EE.8050102@gmail.com> W dniu 03.10.2009 23:39, Ian Weller pisze: > (It should probably go to a translator's list as well but I don't know > which one, and I'd need it approved when I send it since I'm not > subscribed to one.) > fedora-trans-announce would fit well I think. I don't know if it requires approval before posting. -- Piotr Dr?g http://raven.pmail.pl From dhensley at redhat.com Mon Oct 5 00:16:54 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:16:54 +0200 Subject: 2nd Draft Ready for Review: Ch. 1: PackageKit Message-ID: <4AC93AF6.2090406@redhat.com> I have expanded the Yum chapter significantly since the 1st draft, and it should now be more-or-less complete. This is the last draft before I finalize the text for translation, so please send your comments/ suggestions! Especially if you think the Yum chapter should cover something important that it does not. Note: Yum and its "ecosphere" (yum-utils, plugins, etc.) provide many more capabilities than can be described in the Deployment Guide. That said, I am very interested in Yum use cases and procedures that system administrators find indispensable. One example would be: documenting orphan and unneeded package removal with the package-cleanup command. Or merging config files with yum-plugin-merge-conf. Initial text for supplementary sections would be much appreciated. Without further ado: http://dsilas.fedorapeople.org/Deployment_Guide/en-US/html-single/#ch-yum I have incorporated many suggestions from Rahul Sundaram and others into this draft. Thanks Rahul! The (partial) list of changes: * Yum plugins in general documented; specific ones (presto, fastestmirror, refresh-packagekit) now described * chapter's 2nd paragraph is now a large admonition concerning GPG package verification and security, with links * removing packages and groups now explained in detail, along with discussion of dependencies * [main] and [repository] sections beefed up; new options explained * improved command for creating Yum repos * Additional Resources added (only one thus far) Regards, -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From dhensley at redhat.com Mon Oct 5 00:35:45 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 02:35:45 +0200 Subject: 2nd Draft Ready for Review: Ch. 1: Yum Message-ID: <4AC93F61.3030203@redhat.com> 2nd try on 2nd draft for Ch. 1: *YUM* (not PackageKit ;-)) Ah well... I have expanded the Yum chapter significantly since the 1st draft, and it should now be more-or-less complete. This is the last draft before I finalize the text for translation, so please send your comments/ suggestions! Especially if you think the Yum chapter should cover something important that it does not. Note: Yum and its "ecosphere" (yum-utils, plugins, etc.) provide many more capabilities than can be described in the Deployment Guide. That said, I am very interested in Yum use cases and procedures that system administrators find indispensable. One example would be: documenting orphan and unneeded package removal with the package-cleanup command. Or merging config files with yum-plugin-merge-conf. Initial text for supplementary sections would be much appreciated. Without further ado: http://dsilas.fedorapeople.org/Deployment_Guide/en-US/html-single/#ch-yum I have incorporated many suggestions from Rahul Sundaram and others into this draft. Thanks Rahul! The (partial) list of changes: * Yum plugins in general documented; specific ones (presto, fastestmirror, refresh-packagekit) now described * chapter's 2nd paragraph is now a large admonition concerning GPG package verification and security, with links * removing packages and groups now explained in detail, along with discussion of dependencies * [main] and [repository] sections beefed up; new options explained * improved command for creating Yum repos * Additional Resources added (only one thus far) Regards, -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. _______________________________________________ deployment-guide-list https://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide/ Unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/options/deployment-guide-list -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Oct 5 14:49:11 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 10:49:11 -0400 Subject: ready to send out license changeover email on monday In-Reply-To: <20091003213902.GA23061@deathray.ianweller.org> References: <20091003213902.GA23061@deathray.ianweller.org> Message-ID: On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 17:39, Ian Weller wrote: > Thanks to Karsten filling in the appropriate wiki page, I'm ready to > send out this email: > ?http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release#To_send_to_fedora-announce-list > on Monday. It will go to the following lists: > ?fedora-announce-list > ?fedora-devel-announce > ?fedora-advisory-board > ?fedora-docs-list > > (It should probably go to a translator's list as well but I don't know > which one, and I'd need it approved when I send it since I'm not > subscribed to one.) > > Let me know what modifications you would make to either the email or the > recipients before about 19:00 UTC Monday. Happy weekend :) Looks good to me. RELEASE THE HOUNDS! --Eric From domingobecker at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 20:15:35 2009 From: domingobecker at gmail.com (Domingo Becker) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:15:35 -0300 Subject: some issues in docs.fedoraproject.org Message-ID: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> The new docs.fp.o interface seems to be faster than the later one to reach an online book. But some translations seems to have got lost in the process of the move from the old interface. The books are: 1. Installation Guide for F11 http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/es-ES/html-single/ 2. Installation quick start guide for F11 http://docs.fedoraproject.org/installation-quick-start-guide/f11/es-ES/html-single/ The strings with no translations are some of the index and the common content. Remember that Fedora 11 is the current Fedora stable distribution, and the one I would use if I need linux in an enterprise. kind regards Domingo Becker (es) From domingobecker at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 20:56:06 2009 From: domingobecker at gmail.com (Domingo Becker) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 17:56:06 -0300 Subject: Fedora 12 install-guide screenshots Message-ID: <4818cd80910051356p664290edka13e4a79c8a40cfb@mail.gmail.com> The new option "autostep --autoscreenshot" in the kickstart file would probably make it ease to get the localized screenshots included in the Install Guide. Don't hesitate to ask translators to get those screenshots. For Fedora 11 Install Guide they are all in English. We can improve that. :-) kind regards Domingo Becker Spanish Translation Team From r.landmann at redhat.com Mon Oct 5 21:04:41 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 07:04:41 +1000 Subject: some issues in docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ACA5F69.9050202@redhat.com> On 10/06/2009 06:15 AM, Domingo Becker wrote: > The new docs.fp.o interface seems to be faster than the later one to > reach an online book. > > But some translations seems to have got lost in the process of the > move from the old interface. > Hi Domingo -- none of the books themselves changed -- only the index page. Therefore, anything that's broken in the Spanish F11 Installation Guide has always been broken... I will rebuild this books today and re-upload them. The English screenshots are a similar mistake -- I have a full set of screenshots of the installation process in Spanish. I'll find out what went wrong. Cheers Ruediger From ian at ianweller.org Mon Oct 5 21:52:42 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 16:52:42 -0500 Subject: Docs preparing to convert to Creative Commons BY-SA 3.0 Unported license Message-ID: <20091005215242.GA10890@deathray.l.ianweller.org> Today, the Docs team finalized the conversion of the licensing of our documentation and project content from the Open Publication License (OPL) to a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Unported License (CC-BY-SA). Docs originally reached a consensus to change the license in June 2009, and after answering questions raised by the community, the Docs team decided to go ahead with the transition. While OPL is a free and open documentation license, moving to a more widely known and adopted license and the one used by the likes of Wikipedia and GNOME Project helps us share our content more easily with the rest of the Free software community. Additional information can be found at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Relicensing_OPL_to_CC_BY_SA We'd like to thank Tom 'spot' Callaway, Fedora's legal ninja, and Richard Fontana of Red Hat Legal for their help with the conversion. We look forward to continue working with the community and share our documentation freely. -- Ian Weller "Why, a four-year-old could understand this report. Find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail out of it." -- Groucho Marx, "Duck Soup" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Oct 5 23:10:42 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 04:40:42 +0530 Subject: some issues in docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ACA7CF2.7080409@fedoraproject.org> On 10/06/2009 01:45 AM, Domingo Becker wrote: > The new docs.fp.o interface seems to be faster than the later one to > reach an online book. True but I would prefer if we didn't do load up EOL releases documentation. It can be moved to a separate older releases page. Rahul From r.landmann at redhat.com Tue Oct 6 06:56:31 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:56:31 +1000 Subject: some issues in docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ACAEA1F.3040403@redhat.com> (Repeating some comments because I just realised that this morning I replied only to the docs-list, not to trans-list as well... and merging some of your comments from two separate emails) On 10/06/2009 06:15 AM, Domingo Becker wrote: > The new docs.fp.o interface seems to be faster than the later one to > reach an online book. > Thanks! :) Congratulations go to Ryan Lerch for the fantastic redesign :) > But some translations seems to have got lost in the process of the > move from the old interface. > No books were actually changed; only the main index page. Therefore, any errors in any books were already there. In the case of the Installation Guide, since 19 June [1]; and in the case of the Installation Quick Start Guide, since 6 August [2]. > The books are: > > 1. Installation Guide for F11 > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/es-ES/html-single/ > > 2. Installation quick start guide for F11 > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/installation-quick-start-guide/f11/es-ES/html-single/ > > The strings with no translations are some of the index > Entries in the indexes of Publican books come directly from the titles of chapters and sections; entries appear in English in the index of the Spanish books because, unfortunately, they also appear in English in the chapters and sections themselves: for example, look at the headings on these pages: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/es-ES/html/s1-langselection-x86.html http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/es-ES/html/ch07s12.html http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/es-ES/html/sn-networkconfig-fedora.html These missing strings are sadly the result of the complicated process that we must follow at the moment to merge all of Publican's many small PO files together into one big PO file for Transifex, then splitting the big PO file back into many small PO files to build in Publican. Let's look at the first example: "7.11. Language Selection" Here is the XML file that holds the English title: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/install-guide.git?p=docs/install-guide.git;a=blob;f=en-US/Language_Selection_common-title.xml;h=5e94d8ec79f5f3b39000f3dfe81f4da53ace95d2;hb=485b0213fdb3ce7433852ff64870fc0a8072d729 Publican transforms this whole XML file into a POT file ("make update-pot"): http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/install-guide.git?p=docs/install-guide.git;a=blob;f=pot/Language_Selection_common-title.pot;h=22a75944da222d27af9782cd50f201fcb3ac51dc;hb=485b0213fdb3ce7433852ff64870fc0a8072d729 And then into a PO file for Spanish ("make update-po-es-ES"): http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/install-guide.git?p=docs/install-guide.git;a=blob;f=es-ES/Language_Selection_common-title.po;h=ee5def09d6442d5eeb4f79f372d0dffaad092114;hb=485b0213fdb3ce7433852ff64870fc0a8072d729 -- note that Publican has matched this string as a fuzzy with an (incorrect) other string that it found elsewhere. The Installation Guide contains several hundred separate PO files. To make the book available in Transifex, we have to merge them together into one big PO file. In the Docs project, we have been using (for example) "msgcat -u -o es.po *.po" within Publican's es-ES directory to prepare these big PO files. However, for some reason, some strings get lost sometimes. If you look at the es.po file generated with this method, you will see that this string is missing: http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/install-guide.git?p=docs/install-guide.git;a=blob;f=po/es.po;h=6f9c7c2c16711d9f4fc476e058d448721f47f052;hb=485b0213fdb3ce7433852ff64870fc0a8072d729 -- I would expect to find it around line 16096, but it isn't there... :( Please file a bug against the Fedora 11 Installation Guide so that we have a record that this happened. If anyone knows of a more reliable method or tool to merge the many small PO files into a single, big PO file, please say so! I also seem to recall seeing problems in the other direction; some strings that were translated in the big PO files were sometimes lost while splitting them into many small PO files -- I can't think of an example right now, but someone else might remember? > and the common content. As far as I can tell. the only part of the Common Content that ever appeared in English was the Legal Notice, which always appears in English, for legal reasons. Was there something else wrong? On 10/06/2009 06:56 AM, Domingo Becker wrote: > The new option "autostep --autoscreenshot" in the kickstart file would > probably make it ease to get the localized screenshots included in the > Install Guide. > > Don't hesitate to ask translators to get those screenshots. > Thanks! I'll probably need some of that help when the F12 Beta becomes available. > For Fedora 11 Install Guide they are all in English. We can improve that. :-) > Actually, no, the F11 Installation Guide screenshots were all localised (to the extent that anaconda itself was). I remember taking something like 60 screenshots per language in around 40 languages... Take a browse through the test builds here: http://rlandmann.fedorapeople.org/Installation%20Guide/ Of course, the degree of localisation depends on the degree of localisation in anaconda. For example, the text of this screen appears in English: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/install-guide/f11/es-ES/html/ch07s12.html But if you notice the "Atr?s" and "Siguiente" buttons, you will see that this is actually a Spanish installation of Fedora. Hopefully, this is fixed in Fedora 12.... :) Of course, with so many screenshots and so many languages, it's quite possible I made some mistakes here and there. For example, I just realised that I used the wrong screenshot for the "Keyboard selection" screen in Spanish, and have fixed this -- the changes should appear on the website the next time that the server synchronises with the docs repo. If you notice any other wrong images, please let me know on f-t-l, f-d-l, in email, or in a bug -- there are lots of ways to reach me ;) Kind regards, and thank you, as always for the amazing work that you guys do. Sorry that our tools are still letting you down sometimes. Cheers Ruediger [1] http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewvc/web/html/docs/install-guide/f11/es-ES/html-single/index.html?root=fedora&view=log [2] http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewvc/web/html/docs/installation-quick-start-guide/index.php?root=fedora&view=log From domingobecker at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 12:23:40 2009 From: domingobecker at gmail.com (Domingo Becker) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:23:40 -0300 Subject: some issues in docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <4818cd80910060522t37f90cfcoe5361e4dcffef384@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> <4ACAEA1F.3040403@redhat.com> <4818cd80910060522t37f90cfcoe5361e4dcffef384@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4818cd80910060523s2a5d830bg44b090f96105cb06@mail.gmail.com> oops, I forgotten to include fedora-docs-list ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Domingo Becker Date: 2009/10/6 Subject: Re: some issues in docs.fedoraproject.org To: Fedora Translation Project List 2009/10/6 Ruediger Landmann : > > No books were actually changed; only the main index page. Therefore, any > errors in any books were already there. In the case of the Installation > Guide, since 19 June [1]; and in the case of the Installation Quick Start > Guide, since 6 August [2]. > I remember that. I remember I have asked that before. If it's possible to correct it, please do so. If you need some more extra work from us, just let us know. > > Please file a bug against the Fedora 11 Installation Guide so that we have a > record that this happened. > Ok, I'll file a bug report. > If anyone knows of a more reliable method or tool to merge the many small PO > files into a single, big PO file, please say so! > > I also seem to recall seeing problems in the other direction; some strings > that were translated in the big PO files were sometimes lost while splitting > them into many small PO files -- I can't think of an example right now, but > someone else might remember? > >> and the common content. > > As far as I can tell. the only part of the Common Content that ever appeared > in English was the Legal Notice, which always appears in English, for legal > reasons. Was there something else wrong? > No. It seems it's in English for the new books. Take a look at [1] If there are legal issues about this, then leave it like this. Otherwise, it would be better to have that localised. I know a wrong translation here would be a problem. But if a translator has doubts, then it's better to leave it untranslated. [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/es/sn-legalnotice.html > > Of course, the degree of localisation depends on the degree of localisation > in anaconda. So, the problem is in anaconda. I'll take a closer look today, I have to install Fedora on a desktop computer for production. I will file a bug report against anaconda so they include those strings too in the pot file. > Of course, with so many screenshots and so many languages, it's quite > possible I made some mistakes here and there. That's why I say that you probably will need our help. We (translators) are more interested than anyone else in its accuracy. So let us know, we'll be glad to help you. The big pot file issue is solved in the next Transifex, that is not still in use in Fedora Infrastructure. If necessary, let's wait until then. Anyway, we still have work to do with Installation Guide, Virtualization Guide and SELinux Managing Confined Services Guide. We can be busy until that upgrade. Thank you Ruediger, specially for your interest to improve Fedora's documentation quality. And thank you all the docs team, for all the great books you gave us since Fedora 11. They cover almost every aspect ! There's no need to go and read elsewhere. It makes me happy. :-) kind regards Domingo Becker (es) From poelstra at redhat.com Wed Oct 7 01:17:34 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 18:17:34 -0700 Subject: building kernel guide Message-ID: <4ACBEC2E.3020708@redhat.com> Is there an "official" Fedora way to build the kernel from source beyond this wiki page? https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Building_a_custom_kernel Does it adequately reflect instructions for Fedora 12? Thanks, John From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Oct 7 02:35:55 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:35:55 +1000 Subject: some issues in docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <4818cd80910060522t37f90cfcoe5361e4dcffef384@mail.gmail.com> References: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> <4ACAEA1F.3040403@redhat.com> <4818cd80910060522t37f90cfcoe5361e4dcffef384@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ACBFE8B.1090808@redhat.com> On 10/06/2009 10:22 PM, Domingo Becker wrote: > 2009/10/6 Ruediger Landmann: > >> No books were actually changed; only the main index page. Therefore, any >> errors in any books were already there. In the case of the Installation >> Guide, since 19 June [1]; and in the case of the Installation Quick Start >> Guide, since 6 August [2]. >> > I remember that. I remember I have asked that before. > If it's possible to correct it, please do so. > If you need some more extra work from us, just let us know. > The only way I can see to correct this will be: * I identify the PO files in Publican that still contain fuzzy and untranslated strings even after the big Transifex PO file has been split across them * I email these PO files out to translators * Translators work on these files and mail them back to me * I check these files into the repo manually * I rebuild and republish the books with the updated PO files in place * We all pray that the next time that we split a big PO file from Transifex across the Publican PO files, that it does not break what we did in the above steps :) Basically, we side-step Transifex with a manual process. If any language team would like to attempt this with the Installation Guide and Installation Quick Start Guide, I'm prepared to work with you to do this. But I admit that I'm not very eager to "work around" our own systems and processes this way :( As you say later in your email, this is time and effort that we could probably all spend in better ways, especially because when we get Transifex 0.7, this problem will go away by itself! :) Please make sure to file that bug, though. >>> and the common content. >>> >> As far as I can tell. the only part of the Common Content that ever appeared >> in English was the Legal Notice, which always appears in English, for legal >> reasons. Was there something else wrong? >> > No. It seems it's in English for the new books. > Take a look at [1] > If there are legal issues about this, then leave it like this. > Otherwise, it would be better to have that localised. > I know a wrong translation here would be a problem. But if a > translator has doubts, then it's better to leave it untranslated. > > [1] http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/es/sn-legalnotice.html > > The Fedora 10 Release Notes were an anomaly; they are the only place I've found the Legal Notice ever translated -- it certainly wasn't that way in the Release Notes in earlier versions. I have confirmed with Red Hat's legal department today that this notice should not be translated. The reason is simple: in legal matters, the /exact/ wording of the notice has consequences. Therefore, if we translate the legal notice, the legal department would need to check and approve the wording in every language. Unfortunately, the legal department simply does not have the resources to do this. Maybe this should be added to an L10N FAQ somewhere? Cheers, and thanks for your kind words :) Ruediger From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 7 04:53:43 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:23:43 +0530 Subject: some issues in docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <4ACBFE8B.1090808@redhat.com> References: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> <4ACAEA1F.3040403@redhat.com> <4818cd80910060522t37f90cfcoe5361e4dcffef384@mail.gmail.com> <4ACBFE8B.1090808@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ACC1ED7.9050103@fedoraproject.org> On 10/07/2009 08:05 AM, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > Maybe this should be added to an L10N FAQ somewhere? Added to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/FAQ#Should_I_translate_legal_notices.3F Rahul From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Oct 7 04:58:49 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:58:49 +1000 Subject: some issues in docs.fedoraproject.org In-Reply-To: <4ACC1ED7.9050103@fedoraproject.org> References: <4818cd80910051315r7c4c247el62c8fb87e49d8f1a@mail.gmail.com> <4ACAEA1F.3040403@redhat.com> <4818cd80910060522t37f90cfcoe5361e4dcffef384@mail.gmail.com> <4ACBFE8B.1090808@redhat.com> <4ACC1ED7.9050103@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4ACC2009.6090801@redhat.com> On 10/07/2009 02:53 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Added to > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/FAQ#Should_I_translate_legal_notices.3F > > Thanks Rahul! I've bookmarked that page now :) From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Oct 7 13:48:02 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 09:48:02 -0400 Subject: building kernel guide In-Reply-To: <4ACBEC2E.3020708@redhat.com> References: <4ACBEC2E.3020708@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 21:17, John Poelstra wrote: > Is there an "official" Fedora way to build the kernel from source beyond > this wiki page? > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Building_a_custom_kernel > > Does it adequately reflect instructions for Fedora 12? > > Thanks, > John John, I don't know of any other way to build the kernel. It appears that the wiki page is being updated regularly. --Eric From dhensley at redhat.com Wed Oct 7 15:54:03 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 17:54:03 +0200 Subject: FINAL Draft Ready for Review: Ch. 2: PackageKit Message-ID: <4ACCB99B.2060105@redhat.com> The PackageKit chapter of the Fedora 12 Deployment Guide is in final draft stage. The fine-pick comb has already been applied. Only content corrections should be applied at this point. Thanks to Richard Hughes, Rahul Sundaram, Rahul Kavalapara for their helpful 2nd draft reviews and suggestions Notable changes: * addition of a short discussion on, and screenshot of, the Software Update Preferences window, for setting update-checking intervals. (Rahul Kavalapara pointed out this omission--thanks!) * all screenshots now correct; all but three have "Figure X: description" captions * entire chapter now formatted (i.e. the bold has been applied) Review and feedback on this chapter is still welcome. For details on how to get involved in the Fedora 12 Deployment Guide update, see the project page (and join the mailing list) at: https://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide/ -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Wed Oct 7 16:10:02 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:40:02 +0530 Subject: 2nd Draft Ready for Review: Ch. 1: Yum Message-ID: <78323d480910070910s659a4a47rf39ac2bc5eddac17@mail.gmail.com> Douglas Silas wrote: > > Note: Yum and its "ecosphere" (yum-utils, plugins, etc.) provide > many more capabilities than can be described in the Deployment > Guide. That said, I am very interested in Yum use cases and > procedures that system administrators find indispensable. One > example would be: documenting orphan and unneeded package removal > with the package-cleanup command. Or merging config files with > yum-plugin-merge-conf. Initial text for supplementary sections would > be much appreciated. #yum list all #yum list available are rarely used in this form. This should be improved. Kpackagekit is not mentioned at all. Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From dhensley at redhat.com Wed Oct 7 16:23:04 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 18:23:04 +0200 Subject: 2nd Draft Ready for Review: Ch. 1: Yum In-Reply-To: <78323d480910070910s659a4a47rf39ac2bc5eddac17@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480910070910s659a4a47rf39ac2bc5eddac17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ACCC068.6000907@redhat.com> Hi, I've replied inline. On 10/07/2009 06:10 PM, A. Mani wrote: > Douglas Silas wrote: > >> >> Note: Yum and its "ecosphere" (yum-utils, plugins, etc.) provide >> many more capabilities than can be described in the Deployment >> Guide. That said, I am very interested in Yum use cases and >> procedures that system administrators find indispensable. One >> example would be: documenting orphan and unneeded package removal >> with the package-cleanup command. Or merging config files with >> yum-plugin-merge-conf. Initial text for supplementary sections would >> be much appreciated. > > > #yum list all > #yum list available > > are rarely used in this form. > This should be improved. I occasionally use them in this form. Do you have any suggestions? I have some changes to make to this section today and will be releasing the next draft, though these two commands will still be included. > > Kpackagekit is not mentioned at all. KPackageKit is mentioned in the PackageKit chapter, the first paragraph of which says: For more information on PackageKit's architecture and available front ends, refer to Section 2.3, ?PackageKit Architecture?. http://dsilas.fedorapeople.org/Deployment_Guide/en-US/html-single/#ch-graphical_package_management > > > Best > > A. Mani > > > Thanks, -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Thu Oct 8 13:55:24 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (A. Mani) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 19:25:24 +0530 Subject: 2nd Draft Ready for Review: Ch. 1: Yum Message-ID: <78323d480910080655re7f7beex908a11ef60b2c38a@mail.gmail.com> Douglas Silas wrote: >> #yum list all > > #yum list available >> are rarely used in this form. >> This should be improved. > I occasionally use them in this form. Do you have any suggestions? I have some changes to make to this section > today and will be releasing the next draft, though these two commands will still be included. #yum list available "abc*" or a combination of grep with yum list available/all Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Oct 10 13:02:37 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:02:37 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-08 IRC Log Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 00:01:03 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01:03 Meeting started Thu Oct 8 00:01:03 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:01:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:01:09 #topic Roll Call 00:01:11 * Sparks 00:01:23 * jjmcd is here 00:01:44 * bcotton is here (who is this guy anyway) 00:01:54 And according to my watch, you were within a couple seconds, probably IRC lag 00:02:04 * danielsmw is here 00:02:27 * Sparks wants to shoot the guy who schedules a meeting in the middle of an amateur radio contest! 00:02:48 There's always a contest 00:02:50 i wonder who that was 00:02:56 :) 00:03:10 70cm is dead anyway 00:04:40 Okay, let's get started... 00:04:46 #topic Old Business 00:05:10 danielsmw: What the status on the editor for Zikula? 00:05:37 Sparks: i've been working on it for the past hour 00:05:42 :) 00:05:45 Sparks: rpmlint comes out clean now 00:05:53 danielsmw: Very cool! 00:05:55 so I think i may go ahead and put it on bugzilla 00:06:25 Yup. 00:06:30 Excellent. 00:06:48 Let us know if you need any support. 00:06:55 Thanks for packaging it! 00:07:01 Sparks: Will do. I probably will later this evening 00:07:04 No problem1 00:07:54 rudi: I see you changed the license info on the Fedora brand package for Publican 00:08:14 Yep -- all done 00:08:41 rudi: Excellent 00:08:42 rudi, does that also include the additional localization? 00:08:51 jjmcd -- kinda 00:08:57 ianweller: Did you figure out how to change the license on the wiki? 00:09:02 It includes the feedback file 00:09:08 Sparks: it's in localsettings.php 00:09:10 which is in puppet 00:09:17 ianweller: So you are good to go? 00:09:19 But "Document Conventions" is part of the publican package 00:09:26 not the Fedora brand package. 00:09:35 Sparks: sure i'll work on a patch sometime tonight and test it somewhere 00:09:37 That seems odd 00:10:08 (I also missed 4 languages in the package I released the other day, there's a corrected package in Bodhi now that should appear soon to fix that) 00:10:36 All the langs except Chinese are now building 00:10:48 Well, since "Document Conventions" documents how Publican renders various XML tags, this doesn't tend to change from brand to brand. 00:12:03 If someone came up with a very heavily customized brand that *did* change how those tags were rendered, they could also create a new "Document Conventions" text to ship with that package 00:12:42 Which would override the one in Common_Content/common 00:13:11 Anyway, I'll see if I can package the extra "Document Conventions" translations into a new release of Publican 0.44 for us 00:13:33 good deal 00:14:52 Okay... 00:15:01 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:15:15 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:15:21 Can anyone provide an update? 00:16:36 Well, I know danielsmw will be submitting the editor for Zikula for review tonight. 00:16:44 Yup. 00:17:13 Anyone else have an update? 00:17:36 Okay, moving on 00:17:42 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:17:50 * #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:17:54 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:18:19 kudos to ianweller for his announcement and notoriety 00:18:20 I think ianweller sent out the announcement on Monday. 00:18:29 ianweller: Have you received any feedback? 00:18:34 no 00:18:36 Sparks, showed up in LWN 00:18:41 Cool 00:18:55 i am looking into the wiki crap at the moment if anybody's wondering 00:19:23 Just reach into your bucket of magic pixie dust 00:19:31 I think quaid was working on contacting previous contributors 00:20:27 ianweller: do you have a link for that LWN article? 00:20:45 * ianweller looksies 00:21:02 I think the big thing is going to be #7... Make changes to the guides. Rebuild all current versions and push them to docs.fp.o and repos. (All) 00:21:04 http://lwn.net/Articles/355546/ 00:21:15 they just copy/pasted my emai 00:21:17 email* 00:21:22 That means that all guides will need to be updated ASAP. 00:21:47 ianweller++ 00:22:24 This will be coming up in the near future. 00:23:02 I feel a world of CVS hurt a-comin :) 00:23:02 #action Sparks to send to the list an action request to all guide leaders for update status of the license 00:23:09 rudi: Yeah 00:23:17 * danielsmw is afk for a bit 00:23:35 Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:23:54 Are we just republishing F11 docs? 00:23:59 Or further back too? 00:24:31 rudi: I think just F11. 00:24:36 +1 !!!!!! 00:24:44 F10 will be EOL soon anyway. 00:24:54 rudi: Unless you want to go back to the FC days. :) 00:25:14 Uh.... 00:25:20 NO 00:25:23 :) 00:25:28 IMO if people are going to want to use some of our information they would probably want to get it from the latest source and not an old guide. 00:25:52 * Sparks thinks ianweller got off easy during this ordeal 00:26:07 Okay, moving on. 00:26:13 #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:26:21 #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:26:28 Does anyone have an update on this? 00:26:58 Going... 00:27:01 going... 00:27:07 gone. 00:27:09 Still blocked by the NotEnoughHoursInTheDay bug 00:27:17 rudi: Understood. 00:27:26 Expect some traction after I finish on the Publican 1.0 User Guide :) 00:27:36 rudi: You might want to shoot ke4qqq an email on this as I think he wanted to work on it but probably has the same bug. 00:27:38 (RSN) 00:27:52 #topic Guide needs? 00:27:58 * ianweller hsa to run 00:28:01 Okay, anyone have any guides that are in need? 00:28:10 Sure -- my blocker is getting the content together that legal has agreed to release to the wider community 00:28:10 ianweller: Cya 00:28:21 I sent a wuery to qrplinux-L looking for help 00:28:24 no joy 00:28:38 I think I will ping QRP-L, a much bigger list 00:28:39 the RPM guide might need a new owner, i am ashamed to admit that I havent done squat with it all summer :-/ 00:28:40 jjmcd: On the Amateur Radio guide? 00:28:45 affirm 00:28:59 bcotton: same bug as rudi? 00:29:05 jjmcd: Okay. I need to take a stab at some of it. 00:29:31 jjmcd: a combo of that and NotEnoughExperience 00:29:32 rudi: Which guide is this that you are having legal issues on? 00:29:34 Sparks, it would be nice to have something fairly complete for F12 00:29:52 jjmcd: Might be too late in the game 00:30:12 could be 00:30:15 No guide -- I got left behind -- I was still talking about the Open Source Style Guide 00:30:25 rudi: Ahhh 00:30:26 (and Red Hat's internal Style guidelines) 00:30:35 rudi: understood 00:30:53 bcotton: What do you need? More help or more time or both? 00:31:39 bcotton, you might be able to get some help from Florian. He asked us to do it, probably could provide content guidance 00:31:57 Sparks: a bit of both. i'm taking a new job later this month, which should give me a bit more time once i get settled. i'll also get more experience with git and rpm building, and so forth 00:32:23 bcotton: Put the word out on the f-docs-l and see if there are any takers. 00:32:59 sparks: to help or to take? i'd be okay with either. i know the guide is rather dated, but i dont want to let it languish any more than it needs to 00:33:23 bcotton: Whichever you feel most comfortable. You'd probably find helpers first, though. 00:33:35 (i'll also try to hang out in the IRC channel more, i've been fairly absent for a while) 00:33:44 sparks: can do! 00:33:44 Okay 00:33:51 jjmcd and rudi: How goes the RNs? 00:33:58 Well, 00:34:14 I need one small edit before I make the beta rpm 00:34:29 Next move I guess is to update docs.fp.o 00:34:46 jjmcd -- I've been doing that as langs hit 100% 00:34:57 We have been building every night anf the L10N gang has been working hard 00:35:14 excellent 00:35:23 A couple of thoughts: 00:35:57 1) this time, I think we should only move langs to d.fp.o if there's been L10N work in the current cycle 00:36:25 2) langs should remain "Drafts" until they hit 100% 00:37:04 I think we're getting to the point where we should present readers with something a bit more polished 00:37:19 Some of you may have seen the French L10N team take a firm stand on this recently ;) 00:37:35 Last time there were a lot of langs at 80-90%, shouldn't we pull the trigger on those? Or should we encourage the translators to move that last few percent. 00:37:37 I didn't 00:37:43 rudi: Can you elaborate? 00:37:56 (They nuked the entire F12 RN fr.po file because they didn't want to see mishmashed docs published) 00:38:10 (and don't have plans to translate the F12 RN) 00:38:39 jjmcd -- I think we need to provide the encouragement to squeeze out that last 10%-20% 00:39:15 rudi: So let me get this straight... There were French translations and they removed them all? 00:39:26 Sparks -- yes 00:39:35 French translations carried over from previous cycles 00:39:37 rudi: That's not going to sit well with me at all. 00:39:44 For headings and stuff 00:39:52 rudi: Why did they do that? 00:40:00 What was the reasoning? 00:40:21 Sparks -- because they saw us (docs) publishing half-complete work in the past and didn't want it to happen again 00:40:29 Sounds so terribly French of them 00:40:30 rudi: what was the % translated when they nuked it? 00:40:33 so they aren't going to do them at all? 00:40:49 Sparks -- they have no plans to for F12 00:40:57 I'm not good with that 00:41:43 ryanlerch -- only about 10%?20% 00:41:47 Reused strings. 00:42:08 Okay... anything else? 00:42:19 It does mean, however, that if they decide that they want to do RN in French for (say) F13, they'll need to rebase the PO to F10 00:42:28 (or start from scratch, as they choose) 00:42:49 That's just nuts 00:43:12 True, but they probably didn't realise that they could just ask us not to publish the doc ;) 00:43:32 I'll keep my thoughts to myself at the moment. 00:43:34 And, I sympathise with their desire not to publish half-finished work to the world 00:43:40 Okay, moving on. 00:43:47 Anything else in the guide department? 00:44:17 #topic New guides? 00:44:28 Any new guides to be discussed? 00:44:39 You don't have enough? 00:44:56 I don't have enough time to work on the guides I want to work on! 00:44:58 :) 00:45:06 #topic Other business 00:45:09 Just noting that the Virt Guide is up 00:45:14 Anyone have anything else they want to talk about? 00:45:18 rudi: +1 00:45:21 On the F12 drafts page 00:45:23 Sparks 00:45:24 Check it out! :) 00:45:36 You are aware that the beta meeting moved a week 00:45:46 jjmcd: Yes... Was going to mention that to you... :) 00:46:12 :-) Poelstra sent me a note, I wasn't sure it also went to you 00:46:41 jjmcd: I saw it on the logistics list. Are you on that? 00:46:56 Not sure, don't think so 00:47:05 I already have too many lists 00:47:24 Okay, that list was created as a joint list kinda thing... mutual aid? 00:48:17 Okay, anything else? 00:48:21 Yep, the note from JP was posted to logistics so I guess I am on it 00:48:38 I actually have something. 00:49:11 The first meeting after the F12 release I'll accept nominations for "leader" of the Docs Project. 00:49:27 We'll give that a week and then we'll have a poll setup to vote. 00:49:47 So be thinking of someone you'd like to see running this thing. 00:50:02 I think it is a good idea to do this every release or two... 00:50:12 I don't know if you can get out of it that easy 00:50:15 just to keep the ideas new and the momentum moving. 00:50:23 jjmcd: One can try. 00:50:36 jjmcd: All I have to do is nominate you. :) 00:50:43 * ryanlerch nominates zodbot, he is always in meetings... 00:50:55 lolz at ryanlerch 00:50:56 ryanlerch: That's true. And he does take really good notes. 00:50:59 * bcotton seconds ryanlerch's nomination 00:51:02 I'll decline, but maybe I should nominate EvilBob, he is always at these meetngs, too 00:51:31 but here's a question: why can't zodbot be a she? 00:51:43 that is what I get for having a good bouncer 00:51:45 bcotton: zodbot sounds too masculine 00:51:59 what about Sonar_Gal? 00:52:26 Always coming and going 00:52:41 :) 00:52:45 Okay, anything else? 00:53:12 ls 00:53:16 * danielsmw apologizes 00:53:40 rm -Ir danielsmw 00:53:43 better than firefox http://myfavepornsite & 00:54:26 5 00:54:31 4 00:54:35 3 00:54:39 2 00:54:44 1 00:54:49 Thanks everyone for coming! 00:54:56 #endmeeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.9) iEYEARECAAYFAkrQhesACgkQfQTSQL0MFMGjUQCaAhq2IJZG3zAZ7kqTdBnLkhnW 9WUAoMHGe5nporh3sqsSTiBRkemTgfU8 =lm7C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Oct 10 13:03:13 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:03:13 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-08 Summary Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:01:03 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-10-08/fedora-meeting.2009-10-08-00.01.log.html . Meeting summary - --------------- * Roll Call (Sparks, 00:01:09) * Old Business (Sparks, 00:04:46) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (Sparks, 00:15:01) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks, 00:15:15) * Status on CC license rollout. (Sparks, 00:17:42) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule (Sparks, 00:17:54) * LINK: http://lwn.net/Articles/355546/ (ianweller, 00:21:04) * ACTION: Sparks to send to the list an action request to all guide leaders for update status of the license (Sparks, 00:23:02) * Shared open-source style guide (Sparks, 00:26:13) * LINK: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html (Sparks, 00:26:21) * Guide needs? (Sparks, 00:27:52) * New guides? (Sparks, 00:44:17) * Other business (Sparks, 00:45:06) Meeting ended at 00:54:56 UTC. Action Items - ------------ * Sparks to send to the list an action request to all guide leaders for update status of the license Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * Sparks * Sparks to send to the list an action request to all guide leaders for update status of the license * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * Sparks (113) * rudi (47) * jjmcd (36) * ianweller (11) * danielsmw (11) * bcotton (9) * ryanlerch (2) * zodbot (2) * EvilBob (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.9) iEYEARECAAYFAkrQhhAACgkQfQTSQL0MFMFq+gCeLUxhjF+yTCj0vx6hZN+hE8j5 r0cAoJ7rNVV1ZBUFyHG9B2K/3IMAE00e =Beaf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Oct 10 19:24:56 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:24:56 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-08 IRC Log In-Reply-To: References: <20091010161239.GA3305@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 00:01:03 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01:03 Meeting started Thu Oct 8 00:01:03 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:01:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:01:09 #topic Roll Call 00:01:11 * Sparks 00:01:23 * jjmcd is here 00:01:44 * bcotton is here (who is this guy anyway) 00:01:54 And according to my watch, you were within a couple seconds, probably IRC lag 00:02:04 * danielsmw is here 00:02:27 * Sparks wants to shoot the guy who schedules a meeting in the middle of an amateur radio contest! 00:02:48 There's always a contest 00:02:50 i wonder who that was 00:02:56 :) 00:03:10 70cm is dead anyway 00:04:40 Okay, let's get started... 00:04:46 #topic Old Business 00:05:10 danielsmw: What the status on the editor for Zikula? 00:05:37 Sparks: i've been working on it for the past hour 00:05:42 :) 00:05:45 Sparks: rpmlint comes out clean now 00:05:53 danielsmw: Very cool! 00:05:55 so I think i may go ahead and put it on bugzilla 00:06:25 Yup. 00:06:30 Excellent. 00:06:48 Let us know if you need any support. 00:06:55 Thanks for packaging it! 00:07:01 Sparks: Will do. I probably will later this evening 00:07:04 No problem1 00:07:54 rudi: I see you changed the license info on the Fedora brand package for Publican 00:08:14 Yep -- all done 00:08:41 rudi: Excellent 00:08:42 rudi, does that also include the additional localization? 00:08:51 jjmcd -- kinda 00:08:57 ianweller: Did you figure out how to change the license on the wiki? 00:09:02 It includes the feedback file 00:09:08 Sparks: it's in localsettings.php 00:09:10 which is in puppet 00:09:17 ianweller: So you are good to go? 00:09:19 But "Document Conventions" is part of the publican package 00:09:26 not the Fedora brand package. 00:09:35 Sparks: sure i'll work on a patch sometime tonight and test it somewhere 00:09:37 That seems odd 00:10:08 (I also missed 4 languages in the package I released the other day, there's a corrected package in Bodhi now that should appear soon to fix that) 00:10:36 All the langs except Chinese are now building 00:10:48 Well, since "Document Conventions" documents how Publican renders various XML tags, this doesn't tend to change from brand to brand. 00:12:03 If someone came up with a very heavily customized brand that *did* change how those tags were rendered, they could also create a new "Document Conventions" text to ship with that package 00:12:42 Which would override the one in Common_Content/common 00:13:11 Anyway, I'll see if I can package the extra "Document Conventions" translations into a new release of Publican 0.44 for us 00:13:33 good deal 00:14:52 Okay... 00:15:01 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:15:15 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:15:21 Can anyone provide an update? 00:16:36 Well, I know danielsmw will be submitting the editor for Zikula for review tonight. 00:16:44 Yup. 00:17:13 Anyone else have an update? 00:17:36 Okay, moving on 00:17:42 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:17:50 * #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:17:54 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:18:19 kudos to ianweller for his announcement and notoriety 00:18:20 I think ianweller sent out the announcement on Monday. 00:18:29 ianweller: Have you received any feedback? 00:18:34 no 00:18:36 Sparks, showed up in LWN 00:18:41 Cool 00:18:55 i am looking into the wiki crap at the moment if anybody's wondering 00:19:23 Just reach into your bucket of magic pixie dust 00:19:31 I think quaid was working on contacting previous contributors 00:20:27 ianweller: do you have a link for that LWN article? 00:20:45 * ianweller looksies 00:21:02 I think the big thing is going to be #7... Make changes to the guides. Rebuild all current versions and push them to docs.fp.o and repos. (All) 00:21:04 http://lwn.net/Articles/355546/ 00:21:15 they just copy/pasted my emai 00:21:17 email* 00:21:22 That means that all guides will need to be updated ASAP. 00:21:47 ianweller++ 00:22:24 This will be coming up in the near future. 00:23:02 I feel a world of CVS hurt a-comin :) 00:23:02 #action Sparks to send to the list an action request to all guide leaders for update status of the license 00:23:09 rudi: Yeah 00:23:17 * danielsmw is afk for a bit 00:23:35 Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:23:54 Are we just republishing F11 docs? 00:23:59 Or further back too? 00:24:31 rudi: I think just F11. 00:24:36 +1 !!!!!! 00:24:44 F10 will be EOL soon anyway. 00:24:54 rudi: Unless you want to go back to the FC days. :) 00:25:14 Uh.... 00:25:20 NO 00:25:23 :) 00:25:28 IMO if people are going to want to use some of our information they would probably want to get it from the latest source and not an old guide. 00:25:52 * Sparks thinks ianweller got off easy during this ordeal 00:26:07 Okay, moving on. 00:26:13 #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:26:21 #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:26:28 Does anyone have an update on this? 00:26:58 Going... 00:27:01 going... 00:27:07 gone. 00:27:09 Still blocked by the NotEnoughHoursInTheDay bug 00:27:17 rudi: Understood. 00:27:26 Expect some traction after I finish on the Publican 1.0 User Guide :) 00:27:36 rudi: You might want to shoot ke4qqq an email on this as I think he wanted to work on it but probably has the same bug. 00:27:38 (RSN) 00:27:52 #topic Guide needs? 00:27:58 * ianweller hsa to run 00:28:01 Okay, anyone have any guides that are in need? 00:28:10 Sure -- my blocker is getting the content together that legal has agreed to release to the wider community 00:28:10 ianweller: Cya 00:28:21 I sent a wuery to qrplinux-L looking for help 00:28:24 no joy 00:28:38 I think I will ping QRP-L, a much bigger list 00:28:39 the RPM guide might need a new owner, i am ashamed to admit that I havent done squat with it all summer :-/ 00:28:40 jjmcd: On the Amateur Radio guide? 00:28:45 affirm 00:28:59 bcotton: same bug as rudi? 00:29:05 jjmcd: Okay. I need to take a stab at some of it. 00:29:31 jjmcd: a combo of that and NotEnoughExperience 00:29:32 rudi: Which guide is this that you are having legal issues on? 00:29:34 Sparks, it would be nice to have something fairly complete for F12 00:29:52 jjmcd: Might be too late in the game 00:30:12 could be 00:30:15 No guide -- I got left behind -- I was still talking about the Open Source Style Guide 00:30:25 rudi: Ahhh 00:30:26 (and Red Hat's internal Style guidelines) 00:30:35 rudi: understood 00:30:53 bcotton: What do you need? More help or more time or both? 00:31:39 bcotton, you might be able to get some help from Florian. He asked us to do it, probably could provide content guidance 00:31:57 Sparks: a bit of both. i'm taking a new job later this month, which should give me a bit more time once i get settled. i'll also get more experience with git and rpm building, and so forth 00:32:23 bcotton: Put the word out on the f-docs-l and see if there are any takers. 00:32:59 sparks: to help or to take? i'd be okay with either. i know the guide is rather dated, but i dont want to let it languish any more than it needs to 00:33:23 bcotton: Whichever you feel most comfortable. You'd probably find helpers first, though. 00:33:35 (i'll also try to hang out in the IRC channel more, i've been fairly absent for a while) 00:33:44 sparks: can do! 00:33:44 Okay 00:33:51 jjmcd and rudi: How goes the RNs? 00:33:58 Well, 00:34:14 I need one small edit before I make the beta rpm 00:34:29 Next move I guess is to update docs.fp.o 00:34:46 jjmcd -- I've been doing that as langs hit 100% 00:34:57 We have been building every night anf the L10N gang has been working hard 00:35:14 excellent 00:35:23 A couple of thoughts: 00:35:57 1) this time, I think we should only move langs to d.fp.o if there's been L10N work in the current cycle 00:36:25 2) langs should remain "Drafts" until they hit 100% 00:37:04 I think we're getting to the point where we should present readers with something a bit more polished 00:37:19 Some of you may have seen the French L10N team take a firm stand on this recently ;) 00:37:35 Last time there were a lot of langs at 80-90%, shouldn't we pull the trigger on those? Or should we encourage the translators to move that last few percent. 00:37:37 I didn't 00:37:43 rudi: Can you elaborate? 00:37:56 (They nuked the entire F12 RN fr.po file because they didn't want to see mishmashed docs published) 00:38:10 (and don't have plans to translate the F12 RN) 00:38:39 jjmcd -- I think we need to provide the encouragement to squeeze out that last 10%-20% 00:39:15 rudi: So let me get this straight... There were French translations and they removed them all? 00:39:26 Sparks -- yes 00:39:35 French translations carried over from previous cycles 00:39:37 rudi: That's not going to sit well with me at all. 00:39:44 For headings and stuff 00:39:52 rudi: Why did they do that? 00:40:00 What was the reasoning? 00:40:21 Sparks -- because they saw us (docs) publishing half-complete work in the past and didn't want it to happen again 00:40:29 Sounds so terribly French of them 00:40:30 rudi: what was the % translated when they nuked it? 00:40:33 so they aren't going to do them at all? 00:40:49 Sparks -- they have no plans to for F12 00:40:57 I'm not good with that 00:41:43 ryanlerch -- only about 10%?20% 00:41:47 Reused strings. 00:42:08 Okay... anything else? 00:42:19 It does mean, however, that if they decide that they want to do RN in French for (say) F13, they'll need to rebase the PO to F10 00:42:28 (or start from scratch, as they choose) 00:42:49 That's just nuts 00:43:12 True, but they probably didn't realise that they could just ask us not to publish the doc ;) 00:43:32 I'll keep my thoughts to myself at the moment. 00:43:34 And, I sympathise with their desire not to publish half-finished work to the world 00:43:40 Okay, moving on. 00:43:47 Anything else in the guide department? 00:44:17 #topic New guides? 00:44:28 Any new guides to be discussed? 00:44:39 You don't have enough? 00:44:56 I don't have enough time to work on the guides I want to work on! 00:44:58 :) 00:45:06 #topic Other business 00:45:09 Just noting that the Virt Guide is up 00:45:14 Anyone have anything else they want to talk about? 00:45:18 rudi: +1 00:45:21 On the F12 drafts page 00:45:23 Sparks 00:45:24 Check it out! :) 00:45:36 You are aware that the beta meeting moved a week 00:45:46 jjmcd: Yes... Was going to mention that to you... :) 00:46:12 :-) Poelstra sent me a note, I wasn't sure it also went to you 00:46:41 jjmcd: I saw it on the logistics list. Are you on that? 00:46:56 Not sure, don't think so 00:47:05 I already have too many lists 00:47:24 Okay, that list was created as a joint list kinda thing... mutual aid? 00:48:17 Okay, anything else? 00:48:21 Yep, the note from JP was posted to logistics so I guess I am on it 00:48:38 I actually have something. 00:49:11 The first meeting after the F12 release I'll accept nominations for "leader" of the Docs Project. 00:49:27 We'll give that a week and then we'll have a poll setup to vote. 00:49:47 So be thinking of someone you'd like to see running this thing. 00:50:02 I think it is a good idea to do this every release or two... 00:50:12 I don't know if you can get out of it that easy 00:50:15 just to keep the ideas new and the momentum moving. 00:50:23 jjmcd: One can try. 00:50:36 jjmcd: All I have to do is nominate you. :) 00:50:43 * ryanlerch nominates zodbot, he is always in meetings... 00:50:55 lolz at ryanlerch 00:50:56 ryanlerch: That's true. And he does take really good notes. 00:50:59 * bcotton seconds ryanlerch's nomination 00:51:02 I'll decline, but maybe I should nominate EvilBob, he is always at these meetngs, too 00:51:31 but here's a question: why can't zodbot be a she? 00:51:43 that is what I get for having a good bouncer 00:51:45 bcotton: zodbot sounds too masculine 00:51:59 what about Sonar_Gal? 00:52:26 Always coming and going 00:52:41 :) 00:52:45 Okay, anything else? 00:53:12 ls 00:53:16 * danielsmw apologizes 00:53:40 rm -Ir danielsmw 00:53:43 better than firefox http://myfavepornsite & 00:54:26 5 00:54:31 4 00:54:35 3 00:54:39 2 00:54:44 1 00:54:49 Thanks everyone for coming! 00:54:56 #endmeeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.9) iEYEARECAAYFAkrQ34cACgkQfQTSQL0MFMEIMwCgjUfkyupni5nwve5uh9Uf1Bow 9N8AoLqwjmu2Z39FMaJQC0mErnIft0GC =2J9W -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Oct 10 19:25:26 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:25:26 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-08 IRC Log In-Reply-To: References: <20091010161239.GA3305@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: 00:01:03 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01:03 Meeting started Thu Oct 8 00:01:03 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:01:03 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:01:09 #topic Roll Call 00:01:11 * Sparks 00:01:23 * jjmcd is here 00:01:44 * bcotton is here (who is this guy anyway) 00:01:54 And according to my watch, you were within a couple seconds, probably IRC lag 00:02:04 * danielsmw is here 00:02:27 * Sparks wants to shoot the guy who schedules a meeting in the middle of an amateur radio contest! 00:02:48 There's always a contest 00:02:50 i wonder who that was 00:02:56 :) 00:03:10 70cm is dead anyway 00:04:40 Okay, let's get started... 00:04:46 #topic Old Business 00:05:10 danielsmw: What the status on the editor for Zikula? 00:05:37 Sparks: i've been working on it for the past hour 00:05:42 :) 00:05:45 Sparks: rpmlint comes out clean now 00:05:53 danielsmw: Very cool! 00:05:55 so I think i may go ahead and put it on bugzilla 00:06:25 Yup. 00:06:30 Excellent. 00:06:48 Let us know if you need any support. 00:06:55 Thanks for packaging it! 00:07:01 Sparks: Will do. I probably will later this evening 00:07:04 No problem1 00:07:54 rudi: I see you changed the license info on the Fedora brand package for Publican 00:08:14 Yep -- all done 00:08:41 rudi: Excellent 00:08:42 rudi, does that also include the additional localization? 00:08:51 jjmcd -- kinda 00:08:57 ianweller: Did you figure out how to change the license on the wiki? 00:09:02 It includes the feedback file 00:09:08 Sparks: it's in localsettings.php 00:09:10 which is in puppet 00:09:17 ianweller: So you are good to go? 00:09:19 But "Document Conventions" is part of the publican package 00:09:26 not the Fedora brand package. 00:09:35 Sparks: sure i'll work on a patch sometime tonight and test it somewhere 00:09:37 That seems odd 00:10:08 (I also missed 4 languages in the package I released the other day, there's a corrected package in Bodhi now that should appear soon to fix that) 00:10:36 All the langs except Chinese are now building 00:10:48 Well, since "Document Conventions" documents how Publican renders various XML tags, this doesn't tend to change from brand to brand. 00:12:03 If someone came up with a very heavily customized brand that *did* change how those tags were rendered, they could also create a new "Document Conventions" text to ship with that package 00:12:42 Which would override the one in Common_Content/common 00:13:11 Anyway, I'll see if I can package the extra "Document Conventions" translations into a new release of Publican 0.44 for us 00:13:33 good deal 00:14:52 Okay... 00:15:01 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:15:15 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:15:21 Can anyone provide an update? 00:16:36 Well, I know danielsmw will be submitting the editor for Zikula for review tonight. 00:16:44 Yup. 00:17:13 Anyone else have an update? 00:17:36 Okay, moving on 00:17:42 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:17:50 * #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:17:54 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:18:19 kudos to ianweller for his announcement and notoriety 00:18:20 I think ianweller sent out the announcement on Monday. 00:18:29 ianweller: Have you received any feedback? 00:18:34 no 00:18:36 Sparks, showed up in LWN 00:18:41 Cool 00:18:55 i am looking into the wiki crap at the moment if anybody's wondering 00:19:23 Just reach into your bucket of magic pixie dust 00:19:31 I think quaid was working on contacting previous contributors 00:20:27 ianweller: do you have a link for that LWN article? 00:20:45 * ianweller looksies 00:21:02 I think the big thing is going to be #7... Make changes to the guides. Rebuild all current versions and push them to docs.fp.o and repos. (All) 00:21:04 http://lwn.net/Articles/355546/ 00:21:15 they just copy/pasted my emai 00:21:17 email* 00:21:22 That means that all guides will need to be updated ASAP. 00:21:47 ianweller++ 00:22:24 This will be coming up in the near future. 00:23:02 I feel a world of CVS hurt a-comin :) 00:23:02 #action Sparks to send to the list an action request to all guide leaders for update status of the license 00:23:09 rudi: Yeah 00:23:17 * danielsmw is afk for a bit 00:23:35 Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:23:54 Are we just republishing F11 docs? 00:23:59 Or further back too? 00:24:31 rudi: I think just F11. 00:24:36 +1 !!!!!! 00:24:44 F10 will be EOL soon anyway. 00:24:54 rudi: Unless you want to go back to the FC days. :) 00:25:14 Uh.... 00:25:20 NO 00:25:23 :) 00:25:28 IMO if people are going to want to use some of our information they would probably want to get it from the latest source and not an old guide. 00:25:52 * Sparks thinks ianweller got off easy during this ordeal 00:26:07 Okay, moving on. 00:26:13 #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:26:21 #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:26:28 Does anyone have an update on this? 00:26:58 Going... 00:27:01 going... 00:27:07 gone. 00:27:09 Still blocked by the NotEnoughHoursInTheDay bug 00:27:17 rudi: Understood. 00:27:26 Expect some traction after I finish on the Publican 1.0 User Guide :) 00:27:36 rudi: You might want to shoot ke4qqq an email on this as I think he wanted to work on it but probably has the same bug. 00:27:38 (RSN) 00:27:52 #topic Guide needs? 00:27:58 * ianweller hsa to run 00:28:01 Okay, anyone have any guides that are in need? 00:28:10 Sure -- my blocker is getting the content together that legal has agreed to release to the wider community 00:28:10 ianweller: Cya 00:28:21 I sent a wuery to qrplinux-L looking for help 00:28:24 no joy 00:28:38 I think I will ping QRP-L, a much bigger list 00:28:39 the RPM guide might need a new owner, i am ashamed to admit that I havent done squat with it all summer :-/ 00:28:40 jjmcd: On the Amateur Radio guide? 00:28:45 affirm 00:28:59 bcotton: same bug as rudi? 00:29:05 jjmcd: Okay. I need to take a stab at some of it. 00:29:31 jjmcd: a combo of that and NotEnoughExperience 00:29:32 rudi: Which guide is this that you are having legal issues on? 00:29:34 Sparks, it would be nice to have something fairly complete for F12 00:29:52 jjmcd: Might be too late in the game 00:30:12 could be 00:30:15 No guide -- I got left behind -- I was still talking about the Open Source Style Guide 00:30:25 rudi: Ahhh 00:30:26 (and Red Hat's internal Style guidelines) 00:30:35 rudi: understood 00:30:53 bcotton: What do you need? More help or more time or both? 00:31:39 bcotton, you might be able to get some help from Florian. He asked us to do it, probably could provide content guidance 00:31:57 Sparks: a bit of both. i'm taking a new job later this month, which should give me a bit more time once i get settled. i'll also get more experience with git and rpm building, and so forth 00:32:23 bcotton: Put the word out on the f-docs-l and see if there are any takers. 00:32:59 sparks: to help or to take? i'd be okay with either. i know the guide is rather dated, but i dont want to let it languish any more than it needs to 00:33:23 bcotton: Whichever you feel most comfortable. You'd probably find helpers first, though. 00:33:35 (i'll also try to hang out in the IRC channel more, i've been fairly absent for a while) 00:33:44 sparks: can do! 00:33:44 Okay 00:33:51 jjmcd and rudi: How goes the RNs? 00:33:58 Well, 00:34:14 I need one small edit before I make the beta rpm 00:34:29 Next move I guess is to update docs.fp.o 00:34:46 jjmcd -- I've been doing that as langs hit 100% 00:34:57 We have been building every night anf the L10N gang has been working hard 00:35:14 excellent 00:35:23 A couple of thoughts: 00:35:57 1) this time, I think we should only move langs to d.fp.o if there's been L10N work in the current cycle 00:36:25 2) langs should remain "Drafts" until they hit 100% 00:37:04 I think we're getting to the point where we should present readers with something a bit more polished 00:37:19 Some of you may have seen the French L10N team take a firm stand on this recently ;) 00:37:35 Last time there were a lot of langs at 80-90%, shouldn't we pull the trigger on those? Or should we encourage the translators to move that last few percent. 00:37:37 I didn't 00:37:43 rudi: Can you elaborate? 00:37:56 (They nuked the entire F12 RN fr.po file because they didn't want to see mishmashed docs published) 00:38:10 (and don't have plans to translate the F12 RN) 00:38:39 jjmcd -- I think we need to provide the encouragement to squeeze out that last 10%-20% 00:39:15 rudi: So let me get this straight... There were French translations and they removed them all? 00:39:26 Sparks -- yes 00:39:35 French translations carried over from previous cycles 00:39:37 rudi: That's not going to sit well with me at all. 00:39:44 For headings and stuff 00:39:52 rudi: Why did they do that? 00:40:00 What was the reasoning? 00:40:21 Sparks -- because they saw us (docs) publishing half-complete work in the past and didn't want it to happen again 00:40:29 Sounds so terribly French of them 00:40:30 rudi: what was the % translated when they nuked it? 00:40:33 so they aren't going to do them at all? 00:40:49 Sparks -- they have no plans to for F12 00:40:57 I'm not good with that 00:41:43 ryanlerch -- only about 10%?20% 00:41:47 Reused strings. 00:42:08 Okay... anything else? 00:42:19 It does mean, however, that if they decide that they want to do RN in French for (say) F13, they'll need to rebase the PO to F10 00:42:28 (or start from scratch, as they choose) 00:42:49 That's just nuts 00:43:12 True, but they probably didn't realise that they could just ask us not to publish the doc ;) 00:43:32 I'll keep my thoughts to myself at the moment. 00:43:34 And, I sympathise with their desire not to publish half-finished work to the world 00:43:40 Okay, moving on. 00:43:47 Anything else in the guide department? 00:44:17 #topic New guides? 00:44:28 Any new guides to be discussed? 00:44:39 You don't have enough? 00:44:56 I don't have enough time to work on the guides I want to work on! 00:44:58 :) 00:45:06 #topic Other business 00:45:09 Just noting that the Virt Guide is up 00:45:14 Anyone have anything else they want to talk about? 00:45:18 rudi: +1 00:45:21 On the F12 drafts page 00:45:23 Sparks 00:45:24 Check it out! :) 00:45:36 You are aware that the beta meeting moved a week 00:45:46 jjmcd: Yes... Was going to mention that to you... :) 00:46:12 :-) Poelstra sent me a note, I wasn't sure it also went to you 00:46:41 jjmcd: I saw it on the logistics list. Are you on that? 00:46:56 Not sure, don't think so 00:47:05 I already have too many lists 00:47:24 Okay, that list was created as a joint list kinda thing... mutual aid? 00:48:17 Okay, anything else? 00:48:21 Yep, the note from JP was posted to logistics so I guess I am on it 00:48:38 I actually have something. 00:49:11 The first meeting after the F12 release I'll accept nominations for "leader" of the Docs Project. 00:49:27 We'll give that a week and then we'll have a poll setup to vote. 00:49:47 So be thinking of someone you'd like to see running this thing. 00:50:02 I think it is a good idea to do this every release or two... 00:50:12 I don't know if you can get out of it that easy 00:50:15 just to keep the ideas new and the momentum moving. 00:50:23 jjmcd: One can try. 00:50:36 jjmcd: All I have to do is nominate you. :) 00:50:43 * ryanlerch nominates zodbot, he is always in meetings... 00:50:55 lolz at ryanlerch 00:50:56 ryanlerch: That's true. And he does take really good notes. 00:50:59 * bcotton seconds ryanlerch's nomination 00:51:02 I'll decline, but maybe I should nominate EvilBob, he is always at these meetngs, too 00:51:31 but here's a question: why can't zodbot be a she? 00:51:43 that is what I get for having a good bouncer 00:51:45 bcotton: zodbot sounds too masculine 00:51:59 what about Sonar_Gal? 00:52:26 Always coming and going 00:52:41 :) 00:52:45 Okay, anything else? 00:53:12 ls 00:53:16 * danielsmw apologizes 00:53:40 rm -Ir danielsmw 00:53:43 better than firefox http://myfavepornsite & 00:54:26 5 00:54:31 4 00:54:35 3 00:54:39 2 00:54:44 1 00:54:49 Thanks everyone for coming! 00:54:56 #endmeeting From eric at christensenplace.us Sat Oct 10 19:27:18 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:27:18 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-08 IRC Log In-Reply-To: References: <20091010161239.GA3305@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: Sorry for the bandwidth, guys. My FireGPG plugin for Firefox apparently has a bug in it that removes from the meeting logs. Strange! So now that I know it's happening I'll be more careful in the future. I'll also be filing a bug report! --Eric From stickster at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 00:32:31 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 18:32:31 -0600 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-08 IRC Log In-Reply-To: References: <20091010161239.GA3305@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <20091011003231.GA12052@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 03:27:18PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > Sorry for the bandwidth, guys. My FireGPG plugin for Firefox > apparently has a bug in it that removes from the meeting logs. > Strange! So now that I know it's happening I'll be more careful in > the future. I'll also be filing a bug report! It probably thinks they're markup language and is stripping them for some odd reason. You may want to just try your hand at a short script to convert them with some 'sed' commands. Here's what I use for converting output from my dircproxy logs: #!/bin/sh TEMPFILE=`mktemp` cp $TEMPFILE $TEMPFILE.bak sed 's/\[.*\] //' "$1" > $TEMPFILE sed -i 's/<\(.*\)\!.*> [+-]\?/<\1> /' $TEMPFILE grep -v '^<.*> $' $TEMPFILE > "$1" #---- END -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From poelstra at redhat.com Mon Oct 12 18:12:55 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:12:55 -0700 Subject: Schedule reminder for 2009-10-12 Message-ID: <4AD371A7.9060009@redhat.com> Start End Name Wed 23-Sep Mon 12-Oct Ongoing build translation review htmls Wed 30-Sep Tue 20-Oct Solicit Review and Bug Reports for Guides Mon 12-Oct Mon 12-Oct Translation Deadline: Beta Release Notes (PO Files complete) Mon 12-Oct Mon 12-Oct Build and Post release-notes to fedorahosted.org Tue 13-Oct Tue 13-Oct Build fed-rel-notes.rpm for Beta Release Wed 14-Oct Wed 14-Oct Beta Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting Wed 14-Oct Fri 16-Oct Create Beta Announcement Mon 19-Oct Mon 19-Oct Reminder to Trans that Guides POT files are coming Tue 20-Oct Tue 20-Oct Beta Release Public Availability Tue 20-Oct Tue 20-Oct Start One-page Release Notes: Docs & Marketing Tue 20-Oct Tue 20-Oct Prepare GA Release Notes Tue 20-Oct Wed 21-Oct Create POT files for All Guides Tue 20-Oct Tue 27-Oct Create one page Release Notes with Marketing Mon 26-Oct Mon 26-Oct String Freeze: GA Release Notes Mon 26-Oct Wed 28-Oct Port diff wiki content publican p.s. Thank you to the people who emailed me ideas on how to format these messages better. I'm still working on it. From dhensley at redhat.com Tue Oct 13 01:50:33 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 03:50:33 +0200 Subject: FINAL Draft Ready for Review: Ch. 3: RPM Message-ID: <4AD3DCE9.2010306@redhat.com> The FINAL draft of the updated RPM chapter for the Fedora Deployment Guide is ready for review. No new major additions or enhancements will be made to the chapter; review feedback and corrections are welcome, as always. Changes: * large warning admonition about using --nodeps in Install and Uninstall sections * rpm -q --whatprovides clarified for 64-bit .so libs * minor fixes in the GPG signature section * formatting fixes in Additional Resources * rpmnew now mentioned in addition to rpmsave * complete review and copy-edit Review and feedback on this chapter is still welcome. For details on how to get involved in the Fedora 12 Deployment Guide update, see the project page (and join the mailing list) at: https://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide/ -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From dhensley at redhat.com Tue Oct 13 02:00:54 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 04:00:54 +0200 Subject: 3rd Draft Ready for Review: Ch. 1: Yum Message-ID: <4AD3DF56.1080508@redhat.com> The 3rd draft of the Yum chapter is ready for review. Formerly, I had wanted this draft to be the final one, but I ended up making so many changes across the board based on copious feedback from Seth Vidal, James Antill, Rahul Kavalapara and others that I'm releasing this one as the 3rd draft, to be followed shortly thereafter by the FINAL I won't list all the changes, but the major ones are: * TOC changed; new structure * Yum plugin section much expanded; new additions: yum-security, yum-plugin-protect-packages * Yum variables documented * yum list family-of-commands section rewritten * many improvements in many other places Thanks Seth, James and Rahul for all the notes and feedback! Reviews of this chapter are still very much welcome, though I am no longer adding content, but mostly correcting the current text. For details on how to get involved in the Fedora 12 Deployment Guide update, see the project page (and join the mailing list) at: https://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide/ -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 13 04:40:20 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 10:10:20 +0530 Subject: 3rd Draft Ready for Review: Ch. 1: Yum In-Reply-To: <4AD3DF56.1080508@redhat.com> References: <4AD3DF56.1080508@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AD404B4.9020608@fedoraproject.org> On 10/13/2009 07:30 AM, Douglas Silas wrote: > The 3rd draft of the Yum chapter is ready for review. Formerly, I had > wanted this draft to be the final one, but I ended up making so many > changes across the board based on copious feedback from Seth Vidal, > James Antill, Rahul Kavalapara and others that I'm releasing this one as > the 3rd draft, to be followed shortly thereafter by the FINAL Throughout the guide for whatever commands you are list if you are showing glob expressions, you need to escape them where appropriate. Example: # yum list quake\* The backslash is important to escape the shell. Otherwise any files that are in the current directly that matches the expression will be passed an argument to the command instead of what you really want. Rahul From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Oct 14 12:08:54 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:08:54 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder Message-ID: REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs Meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings. If you have something to add to the agenda please do so before 23:30 UTC. Thanks, Eric From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Oct 14 12:08:57 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 08:08:57 -0400 Subject: Intro References: Message-ID: Vishesh Sorry for the delay. I have to admit I've been a bit slow on keeping up with these things lately, and work has had our team leader pretty well tied up. We are wrapping up the beta release notes, and I'm not sure where work on the Installation Guide sits, but I think there is still work to be done there for Fedora 12. Welcome aboard. --McD ----- Original Message ----- From: vishesh kumar To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:13 AM Subject: Intro My name is vishesh kumar, working as a Linux system admin for a giant media house in india. My am working on Fedora and Redhat Enterprise Linux from around 5 years. I want to join FDP for following reasons Have closer contact with your favorite developers and projects. and writing as a career builder. What i can assure that i am sound in software hardware installation and configuration part. I can contribute to Fedora Documentaion in following area Installation or configuration of any software or hardware under Fedora General or security best practices What i need is oppurtunity to start. Thanks -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list at redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list From vishuindian at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 13:23:23 2009 From: vishuindian at gmail.com (vishesh kumar) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:53:23 +0530 Subject: Intro In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thanks John On Wed, Oct 14, 2009 at 5:38 PM, John J. McDonough wrote: > Vishesh > > Sorry for the delay. I have to admit I've been a bit slow on keeping up > with these things lately, and work has had our team leader pretty well tied > up. We are wrapping up the beta release notes, and I'm not sure where work > on the Installation Guide sits, but I think there is still work to be done > there for Fedora 12. > > Welcome aboard. > > --McD > > ----- Original Message ----- From: vishesh kumar > To: fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2009 2:13 AM > Subject: Intro > > > > My name is vishesh kumar, working as a Linux system admin for a giant media > house in india. My am working on Fedora and Redhat Enterprise Linux from > around 5 years. > > I want to join FDP for following reasons > Have closer contact with your favorite developers and projects. and > writing as a career builder. > > What i can assure that i am sound in software hardware installation and > configuration part. > > I can contribute to Fedora Documentaion in following area > Installation or configuration of any software or hardware under Fedora > General or security best practices > > What i need is oppurtunity to start. > > Thanks > > > > > > > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -- http://linuxinterviews.blogspot.com -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 15 00:10:00 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 05:40:00 +0530 Subject: Review of Fedora 12 release notes - updates Message-ID: <4AD66858.6070805@fedoraproject.org> Hi, Not sure what the process is for updates to the release notes but a few things worth highlighting: Overview doesn't really highlight much and should atleast link to talking points Yum-presto is now enabled by default Moblin can be installed with yum install @moblin-desktop Displayport support for Intel hardware Bluetooth PAN support in NetworkManager - http://blogs.gnome.org/dcbw/2009/07/...etworkmanager/ Mobile broadband improvements include showing signal strength for cellular connections and network scanning for GSM early r600 DRI available: install the mesa-dri-drivers-experimental package. Not sure the RAID related changes in Anaconda has a direct impact but if so a note should be added to http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/sect-Release_Notes-Installation_Notes.html NFS4 is NOT enabled by default anymore although it is supported. Modify note at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/sect-Release_Notes-Networking.html Link to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Dracut Netbeans is mentioned in talking points but not at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/sect-Release_Notes-Changes_in_Fedora_for_Developers.html from http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/sect-Release_Notes-Changes_in_Fedora_for_System_Administrators.html Explain SELinux sandbox (from Dan Walsh blog) at http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/sect-Release_Notes-Security.html Hope that helps. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 15 00:16:35 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 05:46:35 +0530 Subject: Review of Fedora 12 release notes - updates In-Reply-To: <4AD66858.6070805@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AD66858.6070805@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4AD669E3.3030205@fedoraproject.org> On 10/15/2009 05:40 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi, > > Not sure what the process is for updates to the release notes but a few > things worth highlighting: One more thing: Reverse Engineering Broadcom firmware is installed by default and does work out of the box for some hardware https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-test-list/2009-October/msg00242.html Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 12:15:06 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:15:06 -0400 Subject: fedora-release-notes RPM maintainers Message-ID: <20091015121506.GD3348@victoria.internal.frields.org> I saw this snippet in yesterday's meeting log: [20:19] Release notes are owned by paul and jesse, so we can't, for example, submit a koji [20:19] jjmcd: I think you should be an owner [20:20] jjmcd: In addition to others as well [20:20] ahhh cvs perms [20:20] But first I need to better understand the whole process [20:20] I can make a RPM just fine, but I have little concept of what happens after that [20:20] In the past I've just handed it to Jesse and magic happens [20:21] jjmcd: It isn't that difficult to get it through. Heck, I've even done it. [20:21] I'm sure it isn't [20:21] Just need the map I would be absolutely thrilled to add some people to co-maintain this package. All you need to do is go here: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packages/name/fedora-release-notes Then login (at the upper right), and add yourself to the package for the various branches you need. I'd recommend F-12 and devel to start with, unless someone plans on doing F-10 or F-11 updates for the release notes RPM. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Oct 15 12:47:01 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:47:01 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-15 IRC log Message-ID: 00:01:25 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01:25 Meeting started Thu Oct 15 00:01:25 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:01:25 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:01:34 #topic Roll Call 00:01:38 * Sparks 00:01:56 * ke4qqq 00:01:57 * joat . 00:01:59 * jjmcd . 00:02:15 * joat thinks Spark's calendar is just as busted as his 00:03:08 Good group so far 00:03:23 joat: My calendar is all messed up now that I'm doing an ST&E 00:03:42 * ke4qqq is in and out 00:04:00 Sparks: I'm still sans-calendar 00:04:05 waiting for account 00:04:11 * radsy shuffles in 00:04:21 * rudi is here 00:05:05 Okay, let's get started 00:05:22 #topic Beta Release Announcement 00:05:29 jjmcd: Go ahead, I think you added this 00:05:58 Well, its no surprise, is it. We need to get working on the release announcement 00:06:22 Isn't the updated GA like a week away? Not sure the exact date 00:06:56 20th? 00:06:58 jjmcd: I honestly haven't had a chance to look at my calendar in days 00:07:11 hehe - yeah, I know what you mean 00:07:18 November 17, I thought? 00:07:30 SRI - i meant beta 00:08:07 Beta is almost upon us and we need to do the announcement. Not a really big deal, tho, not like GA 00:08:34 Can we just take Alpha and just change it to Beta? 00:08:43 Pretty much 00:09:00 volunteers? 00:09:26 I can do some with someone to bounce thoughts off 00:09:49 preferably someone who doesn't live upside-down 00:10:09 * Sparks is living upside-down in Virginia! 00:10:33 All these upside down guys sleep when I'm awake! 00:11:03 I haven't seen Zach in a while, I'd twist his arm 00:11:54 jjmcd: Okay, maybe put something out on the list? 00:12:08 Yeah, maybe poke a few folks 00:12:53 Okay... anything else on this topic? 00:13:28 #topic f-r-n.rpm 00:13:36 jjmcd: Okay, what's up with this? 00:13:44 OK, mostly by way of a heads-up 00:13:59 Our schedule had us doing the beta rpm last tuesday 00:14:17 and did "we"? 00:14:17 With the schedule slip, I translated that to yesterday to get the max transations 00:14:33 Turns out, it needed to be done about 4 weeks ago to make it into beta 00:14:40 ?!? 00:14:49 Yeah, that's about what I said 00:15:02 How did that all work? That doesn't make sense. 00:15:08 So, no f-r-n.rpm in beta 00:15:46 Not sure. A lot changed between the time the schedule came out and when we talked with john and l10n to set it up 00:16:00 have we followed up with poelcat to make sure our schedule reflects proper date 00:16:02 but also, we weren't paying close attention to the freezes 00:16:05 for next release 00:16:34 Yes, that was an action item from the meeting, plus, I've been talking with Jesse to better understand the whole process 00:16:51 Which I've mostly been ignoring, sor of do whaterver the sked says 00:17:29 Bottom line, tho, I think is that we really need to own this. Having Jesse and Paul as owners makes us too disconnected 00:18:25 Thats what I have. Other questions? 00:19:10 what do you mean by "having us own this" 00:19:40 Release notes are owned by paul and jesse, so we can't, for example, submit a koji 00:19:56 jjmcd: I think you should be an owner 00:20:02 jjmcd: In addition to others as well 00:20:10 ahhh cvs perms 00:20:12 But first I need to better understand the whole process 00:20:30 I can make a RPM just fine, but I have little concept of what happens after that 00:20:42 In the past I've just handed it to Jesse and magic happens 00:21:10 jjmcd: It isn't that difficult to get it through. Heck, I've even done it. 00:21:18 I'm sure it isn't 00:21:30 Just need the map 00:21:46 heck, if you can do git, svn, and cvn, then you are golden! 00:21:59 jjmcd: I think it's on the wiki... I'll see if I can find it for you 00:22:22 Seems like I found it, and I felt like it had some holes but that was a while ago 00:22:51 Okay... 00:23:03 anything else on this topic? 00:24:07 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:24:23 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:24:41 Any update on this? 00:25:52 Anyone? 00:26:50 Okay then... 00:26:55 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:27:04 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:27:17 I can't remember if I sent out the message to the list or not, now... 00:27:52 Will start rebuilding F11 and F12 guides RSN 00:27:53 But for those that are onboard, can you modify your license pages using the new publican-fedora brand and redo your uploads to docs.fp.o? 00:28:10 I'd like to have everything changed over by next Wednesday. 00:29:35 hehe - I didn't notice, but the RN's for L10N all say CC-BY-SA 00:29:43 Cool! 00:29:43 :) 00:29:54 Except for Chinese which hasn't run in a while 00:30:15 Sparks -- will do :) 00:30:49 Ya 00:30:51 rudi: Cool 00:30:56 Okay, anything else on this? 00:31:18 Is the Pravne odrdbe supposed to be always english? 00:31:37 is the who? 00:31:56 Legal Notice 00:32:10 It is in English for all langs, although it's title isn't 00:32:29 Yes 00:32:51 We aren't supposed to translate the legal notice as it might loose something in translation 00:33:10 Makes sense 00:33:30 jjmcd -- the title should be localised, the text should not 00:33:40 ANd that is the case 00:34:02 If you see a language where the title isn't localised, it's because the string "legal notice" is missing from the docbooks-locale file currently in Fedora 00:34:31 I see assamese isn't 00:34:52 There is currently no stylesheet for Assamese at all, even upstream 00:35:00 I'm working on that with the DocBook community 00:36:13 Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:36:46 #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:36:55 #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:37:01 Does anyone have any updates on this? 00:38:42 * Sparks hears crickets chirping 00:38:53 Okay, moving on. 00:39:00 #topic Guide needs? 00:39:06 Any guides have any needs? 00:40:02 #topic New Guides 00:40:08 Any new guides on the horizon? 00:41:34 #topic Other business 00:41:38 Anyone have anything else? 00:42:32 Anything at all? 00:42:43 me 00:43:08 Just an update that Publican 1.0 is very near now -- should be finished within days 00:43:19 But it won't be in Fedora any time soon 00:43:25 whew 00:43:32 rudi: No? 00:43:48 Because we've been waiting weeks for dependencies get approved 00:44:14 At this rate, it actually looks like Publican 1.0 will be in *Debian* before it gets into Fedora... 00:44:20 Ugh 00:44:21 (I'm not exaggerating...) 00:46:51 Okay... Well, I don't know. 00:47:49 Anyone have anything else? 00:49:00 5 00:49:02 4 00:49:05 3 00:49:07 2 00:49:10 1 00:49:15 Thanks everyone for coming! 00:49:19 #endmeeting From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Oct 15 12:47:42 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 08:47:42 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-15 Summary Message-ID: =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:01:25 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-10-15/fedora-meeting.2009-10-15-00.01.log.html . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (Sparks, 00:01:34) * Beta Release Announcement (Sparks, 00:05:22) * f-r-n.rpm (Sparks, 00:13:28) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (Sparks, 00:24:07) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks, 00:24:23) * Status on CC license rollout. (Sparks, 00:26:55) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule (Sparks, 00:27:04) * Shared open-source style guide (Sparks, 00:36:46) * LINK: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html (Sparks, 00:36:55) * Guide needs? (Sparks, 00:39:00) * New Guides (Sparks, 00:40:02) * Other business (Sparks, 00:41:34) Meeting ended at 00:49:19 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * Sparks (68) * jjmcd (41) * rudi (14) * ke4qqq (6) * joat (4) * zodbot (2) * radsy (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot From maxamillion at gmail.com Thu Oct 15 21:20:06 2009 From: maxamillion at gmail.com (Adam Miller) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:20:06 -0500 Subject: Requesting expertise in the field of writing. Message-ID: Hello docs team, My name is Adam Miller and I am one of the contributors who works on the Fedora Xfce Spin and I'm currently working on our new spin wiki page with all the info needed for the new Spin Pages that the design team is working on, I'm no writer so I was hoping someone might lend a bit of their talent towards cleaning up our "spin description" and "download tab" entries[0], we (Kevin, Christoph and myself ... all listed on the wiki page) just feel that what we want to say is being said, but that its a tad "rough around the edges" and Kevin suggested I come to the doc team and request their expertise, so I went to the #fedora-docs irc channel and was directed to the mailing list, so here I am :) Many thanks in advance! -Adam [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/XFCE_Spin -- http://maxamillion.googlepages.com --------------------------------------------------------- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments From dhensley at redhat.com Thu Oct 15 22:02:19 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:02:19 +0200 Subject: Requesting expertise in the field of writing. In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AD79BEB.8070706@redhat.com> Hi Adam, Here's a crack at the Spin Description: Spin Description Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for Linux and other *NIX systems. Designed for productivity, it loads and executes applications fast while simultaneously conserving system resources. The purpose of Fedora Xfce Spin is to highlight the benefits of the Xfce desktop's quick-and-clean interface, which enables users to work faster and hassle-free. Xfce on top of Fedora's numerous innovations make for a next-generation desktop experience! Notes: Concerning "Linux and other *NIX systems": you might as well add "Linux and" before "*NIX", which could be potentially confusing for new users. I don't think there's any bias in doing that since this is the *Fedora* Xfce Spin ;-) The Download Tab essentially just rewords the Spin Description, so, IMO, should offer some different text. That said, I had to look up what Xfce Spin actually is (a Fedora LiveCD that boots into the Xfce desktop and can install to the hard drive as well, evidently). Should that information be added to the Spin Description, Download Tab, or is it noted (somewhat prominently) elsewhere? Xfce rocks. Cheers, Silas On 10/15/2009 11:20 PM, Adam Miller wrote: > Hello docs team, > My name is Adam Miller and I am one of the contributors who works > on the Fedora Xfce Spin and I'm currently working on our new spin wiki > page with all the info needed for the new Spin Pages that the design > team is working on, I'm no writer so I was hoping someone might lend a > bit of their talent towards cleaning up our "spin description" and > "download tab" entries[0], we (Kevin, Christoph and myself ... all > listed on the wiki page) just feel that what we want to say is being > said, but that its a tad "rough around the edges" and Kevin suggested > I come to the doc team and request their expertise, so I went to the > #fedora-docs irc channel and was directed to the mailing list, so here > I am :) > > Many thanks in advance! > -Adam > > [0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/XFCE_Spin > -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Oct 16 00:49:20 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:49:20 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement Message-ID: Gang We need to get the beta announcement out and really needs some love. If you can, take a peek at the (very) rough draft at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_Beta_Announcement and bleed on it. Better yet, stop by on IRC tomorrow and lets bounce thoughts around. --McD From maxamillion at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 01:29:50 2009 From: maxamillion at gmail.com (Adam Miller) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:29:50 -0500 Subject: Requesting expertise in the field of writing. In-Reply-To: <4AD79BEB.8070706@redhat.com> References: <4AD79BEB.8070706@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 5:02 PM, Douglas Silas wrote: > Hi Adam, > > Here's a crack at the Spin Description: > > Spin Description > > Xfce is a lightweight desktop environment for Linux and other *NIX systems. > Designed for productivity, it loads and executes applications fast while > simultaneously conserving system resources. The purpose of Fedora Xfce Spin > is to highlight the benefits of the Xfce desktop's quick-and-clean > interface, which enables users to work faster and hassle-free. Xfce on top > of Fedora's numerous innovations make for a next-generation desktop > experience! > > Notes: > > Concerning "Linux and other *NIX systems": you might as well add "Linux and" > before "*NIX", which could be potentially confusing for new users. I don't > think there's any bias in doing that since this is the *Fedora* Xfce Spin > ;-) I do agree with the "Linux and other *NIX systems" comment, it was honestly just an attempt to incorporate the quote from the original author of Xfce found on www.xfce.org in their banner as an honor to his work. > The Download Tab essentially just rewords the Spin Description, so, IMO, > should offer some different text. The Download Tab (at least from my understanding) is the text that will actually be on the new Xfce Spin so we wanted it to provide similar information but be a little more brief. I can get clarification on that though and if need be we will come up with some different information/text/verbage to post there. >That said, I had to look up what Xfce Spin > actually is (a Fedora LiveCD that boots into the Xfce desktop and can > install to the hard drive as well, evidently). Should that information be > added to the Spin Description, Download Tab, or is it noted (somewhat > prominently) elsewhere? > That was just a horrible oversight on my part, I apparently take for granted what the Xfce Spin actually is. I have added a short blurb that is informative to that effect. Many thanks for your comments! It was very helpful to get some review from someone versed in the art of the pen (well ... keyboard, but you know what I mean). If there are any other comments/criticisms/snide remarks or otherwise please feel free to let me know, we really hope to make all aspects of the Xfce Spin shine and that includes our new spins page! Thanks again, -Adam -- http://maxamillion.googlepages.com --------------------------------------------------------- () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Fri Oct 16 02:29:30 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 07:59:30 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> On 10/16/2009 06:19 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > Gang > > We need to get the beta announcement out and really needs some love. If > you can, take a peek at the (very) rough draft at > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_Beta_Announcement and bleed on it. > Better yet, stop by on IRC tomorrow and lets bounce thoughts around. I don't think I will be on IRC. I have made so major revisions borrowing heavily from the talking points. Hope that helps. Rahul From awilliam at redhat.com Fri Oct 16 08:43:38 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 01:43:38 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement In-Reply-To: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1255682618.2314.59.camel@adam.local.net> On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 07:59 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 10/16/2009 06:19 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > > Gang > > > > We need to get the beta announcement out and really needs some love. If > > you can, take a peek at the (very) rough draft at > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F12_Beta_Announcement and bleed on it. > > Better yet, stop by on IRC tomorrow and lets bounce thoughts around. > > I don't think I will be on IRC. I have made so major revisions borrowing > heavily from the talking points. Hope that helps. Rahul and I bashed it around some more today, thanks to Rahul for dragging me in, I should have been reading the list to keep up with this. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Oct 16 12:14:15 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:14:15 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement References: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <281B7478DFD44ADAA48B019470EDCC66@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Sundaram" To: "John J. McDonough" ; "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2009 10:29 PM Subject: Re: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement > I don't think I will be on IRC. I have made so major revisions borrowing > heavily from the talking points. Hope that helps. Rahul, I caught your updates last night - very good, thanks for the help. --McD From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Oct 16 12:15:26 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:15:26 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement References: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> <1255682618.2314.59.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Adam Williamson" To: ; "For participants of the Documentation Project" Cc: "John J. McDonough" Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:43 AM Subject: Re: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement > Rahul and I bashed it around some more today, thanks to Rahul for > dragging me in, I should have been reading the list to keep up with > this. You gotta love it when everyone gets in on the party. Thanks! --McD From awilliam at redhat.com Mon Oct 19 17:39:28 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 10:39:28 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement In-Reply-To: References: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> <1255682618.2314.59.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <1255973968.2314.193.camel@adam.local.net> On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 08:15 -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Adam Williamson" > To: ; "For participants of the Documentation > Project" > Cc: "John J. McDonough" > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:43 AM > Subject: Re: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement > > > > Rahul and I bashed it around some more today, thanks to Rahul for > > dragging me in, I should have been reading the list to keep up with > > this. > > You gotta love it when everyone gets in on the party. Thanks! I see more changes keep landing :) Couple of notes on recent changes: "Of note, is that by default, Dracut generates generic initramfs images containing most kernel modules needed to boot on most hardware, increasing file size by about 3 times. To switch to more efficient hostonly images, see /etc/dracut.conf." - I don't think this kind of release note belongs in the beta announcement (if we take this one, I can contribute all kinds of similar ones to the other sections). At most, a straight link to the release notes (where this text should actually be included). "As always, the Fedora Project continues to push these enhancements upstream and make them available for all Linux distributions." - it seems a bit odd to write this _just_ in the webcam section, when obviously it applies to almost the entire document. Either we should have a little general blurb about this at the top - something like 'The Fedora Project's policy is to contribute all its development work to upstream projects to benefit as many users of all distributions and operating systems as possible', perhaps with a link elsewhere in the Wiki to the full policy and 'list of contributions' page - or we don't mention it at all. Developers and Sysadmins proposed section - I'm worried the announcement's already pretty long. In my experience, people tune out after the first half a page or so. (Most people probably aren't going to read past 'graphics support improvements' in the current text, IMHO). Still, not sure what a good solution is. A separate page would be equally rarely-viewed and it's hard to send out an announcement as multiple pages. I've been trying to keep the length of the current text down but it just keeps ballooning... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 22:41:32 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 18:41:32 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement In-Reply-To: <1255973968.2314.193.camel@adam.local.net> References: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> <1255682618.2314.59.camel@adam.local.net> <1255973968.2314.193.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <20091019224132.GB6301@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Mon, Oct 19, 2009 at 10:39:28AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Fri, 2009-10-16 at 08:15 -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Adam Williamson" > > To: ; "For participants of the Documentation > > Project" > > Cc: "John J. McDonough" > > Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 4:43 AM > > Subject: Re: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement > > > > > > > Rahul and I bashed it around some more today, thanks to Rahul for > > > dragging me in, I should have been reading the list to keep up with > > > this. > > > > You gotta love it when everyone gets in on the party. Thanks! > > I see more changes keep landing :) > > Couple of notes on recent changes: > > "Of note, is that by default, Dracut generates generic initramfs images > containing most kernel modules needed to boot on most hardware, > increasing file size by about 3 times. To switch to more efficient > hostonly images, see /etc/dracut.conf." - I don't think this kind of > release note belongs in the beta announcement (if we take this one, I > can contribute all kinds of similar ones to the other sections). At > most, a straight link to the release notes (where this text should > actually be included). Agreed. > "As always, the Fedora Project continues to push these enhancements > upstream and make them available for all Linux distributions." - it > seems a bit odd to write this _just_ in the webcam section, when > obviously it applies to almost the entire document. Either we should > have a little general blurb about this at the top - something like 'The > Fedora Project's policy is to contribute all its development work to > upstream projects to benefit as many users of all distributions and > operating systems as possible', perhaps with a link elsewhere in the > Wiki to the full policy and 'list of contributions' page - or we don't > mention it at all. Agreed again, and I would simply leave this out. This is a beta announcement and not a policy statement. > Developers and Sysadmins proposed section - I'm worried the > announcement's already pretty long. In my experience, people tune out > after the first half a page or so. (Most people probably aren't going to > read past 'graphics support improvements' in the current text, IMHO). > Still, not sure what a good solution is. A separate page would be > equally rarely-viewed and it's hard to send out an announcement as > multiple pages. I've been trying to keep the length of the current text > down but it just keeps ballooning... I made a few corrections but likely much has changed since then, and I withheld my knife/machete/axe at the time. We have consistently faced a problem of what should be simple texts growing out of proportion to their readership's attention span. My advice: Cut mercilessly! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Oct 20 13:36:42 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:36:42 -0400 Subject: Beta Docs Message-ID: Are there any documents that need to be synced on docs.fp.o before the Beta release? Please let me know ASAP if you do! --Eric From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 20 13:36:39 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:06:39 +0530 Subject: Beta Docs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ADDBCE7.5020100@fedoraproject.org> On 10/20/2009 07:06 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > Are there any documents that need to be synced on docs.fp.o before the > Beta release? Please let me know ASAP if you do! I have a few corrections that you can perhaps take into account https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-October/msg00048.html Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 14:59:36 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:59:36 -0400 Subject: Beta Docs In-Reply-To: <4ADDBCE7.5020100@fedoraproject.org> References: <4ADDBCE7.5020100@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20091020145936.GL933@victoria.internal.frields.org> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 07:06:39PM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 10/20/2009 07:06 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > > Are there any documents that need to be synced on docs.fp.o before the > > Beta release? Please let me know ASAP if you do! > > I have a few corrections that you can perhaps take into account > > https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-October/msg00048.html Relatively new bug 529401 also might apply. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Oct 20 17:10:04 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:10:04 -0700 Subject: Upcoming Schedule Message-ID: <4ADDEEEC.8050806@redhat.com> Start End Name Wed 30-Sep Tue 20-Oct Solicit Review and Bug Reports for Guides Tue 20-Oct Tue 20-Oct Start One-page Release Notes: Docs & Marketing Tue 20-Oct Tue 20-Oct Beta Release Public Availability Tue 20-Oct Tue 20-Oct Prepare GA Release Notes Tue 20-Oct Wed 21-Oct Create POT files for All Guides Tue 20-Oct Tue 27-Oct Create one page Release Notes with Marketing Mon 26-Oct Mon 26-Oct String Freeze: GA Release Notes Mon 26-Oct Wed 28-Oct Port diff wiki content publican Wed 28-Oct Wed 28-Oct Remind Translation POTs coming GA release notes Mon 02-Nov Mon 02-Nov Generate GA Release Notes POT files for Translation Tue 03-Nov Mon 09-Nov Review and correct GA Release Notes (daily builds html) Tue 03-Nov Mon 09-Nov Build GA release note htmls for Translation From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 20 18:29:13 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:59:13 +0530 Subject: Error in instructions In-Reply-To: <200910171639.n9HGd5U4030909@mx1.redhat.com> References: <200910171639.n9HGd5U4030909@mx1.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ADE0179.9000306@fedoraproject.org> On 10/17/2009 09:21 PM, Kirk Charles wrote: > Greetings, > I have found an error in the following page for windows users > > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/readme-burning-isos/en_US/sn-validating-files.html > > > It seems that the current checksum method is SHA 256. Only hashcalc can > do this. > The other 2 recommended programs will not do this. > It took me quite awhile to figure this out. > > Also it would be good to elaborate on how and where to find the sums to > check against > and to remind users > to be sure to use the correct calculation method. Already reported in Bugzilla. Hopefully someone in the docs team will fix this soon. Rahul From awilliam at redhat.com Tue Oct 20 23:17:54 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:17:54 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement In-Reply-To: <20091019224132.GB6301@victoria.internal.frields.org> References: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> <1255682618.2314.59.camel@adam.local.net> <1255973968.2314.193.camel@adam.local.net> <20091019224132.GB6301@victoria.internal.frields.org> Message-ID: <1256080674.2314.305.camel@adam.local.net> On Mon, 2009-10-19 at 18:41 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I made a few corrections but likely much has changed since then, and I > withheld my knife/machete/axe at the time. We have consistently faced > a problem of what should be simple texts growing out of proportion to > their readership's attention span. > > My advice: Cut mercilessly! Well, I did that a few days ago, and then it ballooned back again :) I had it down to a low of 9,561 bytes on the 16th, it's at 12,858 as published. Oh, well. Some of the changes were actual features that weren't mentioned before, but a lot were notes of people who had been involved with each change. I suppose there may be a Red Hat angle on this (RH would like its generous contributions noted :>) but it did stretch things out quite a lot, and that was without systematically attributing _everything_ mentioned - so the final document is somewhat 'unfair' (some people are credited but others who could have been aren't). If we'd credited all the changes mentioned, it would've been even huger. Oh well, these constitute notes for the future, I guess. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Oct 20 23:21:58 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 04:51:58 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement In-Reply-To: <1256080674.2314.305.camel@adam.local.net> References: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> <1255682618.2314.59.camel@adam.local.net> <1255973968.2314.193.camel@adam.local.net> <20091019224132.GB6301@victoria.internal.frields.org> <1256080674.2314.305.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <4ADE4616.2080600@fedoraproject.org> On 10/21/2009 04:47 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > I had it down to a low of 9,561 bytes on the 16th, it's at 12,858 as > published. Oh, well. Some of the changes were actual features that > weren't mentioned before, but a lot were notes of people who had been > involved with each change. I suppose there may be a Red Hat angle on > this (RH would like its generous contributions noted :>) but it did > stretch things out quite a lot, and that was without systematically > attributing _everything_ mentioned - so the final document is somewhat > 'unfair' (some people are credited but others who could have been > aren't). If we'd credited all the changes mentioned, it would've been > even huger. > > Oh well, these constitute notes for the future, I guess. Copy paste the Fedora 12 Beta announcement into http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Announcement and you can make all those changes you wanted right away. On the plus side, I got positive feedback when I send the announcement over to media outlets. Rahul From awilliam at redhat.com Wed Oct 21 05:40:13 2009 From: awilliam at redhat.com (Adam Williamson) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:40:13 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement In-Reply-To: <4ADE4616.2080600@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> <1255682618.2314.59.camel@adam.local.net> <1255973968.2314.193.camel@adam.local.net> <20091019224132.GB6301@victoria.internal.frields.org> <1256080674.2314.305.camel@adam.local.net> <4ADE4616.2080600@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <1256103613.2314.393.camel@adam.local.net> On Wed, 2009-10-21 at 04:51 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 10/21/2009 04:47 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > > > I had it down to a low of 9,561 bytes on the 16th, it's at 12,858 as > > published. Oh, well. Some of the changes were actual features that > > weren't mentioned before, but a lot were notes of people who had been > > involved with each change. I suppose there may be a Red Hat angle on > > this (RH would like its generous contributions noted :>) but it did > > stretch things out quite a lot, and that was without systematically > > attributing _everything_ mentioned - so the final document is somewhat > > 'unfair' (some people are credited but others who could have been > > aren't). If we'd credited all the changes mentioned, it would've been > > even huger. > > > > Oh well, these constitute notes for the future, I guess. > > Copy paste the Fedora 12 Beta announcement into > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Announcement and you can make > all those changes you wanted right away. On the plus side, I got > positive feedback when I send the announcement over to media outlets. Oh, it's definitely good, didn't want to give any other impression! Just thinking of ways to make it better. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Wed Oct 21 05:41:14 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:11:14 +0530 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Announcement In-Reply-To: <1256103613.2314.393.camel@adam.local.net> References: <4AD7DA8A.9080302@fedoraproject.org> <1255682618.2314.59.camel@adam.local.net> <1255973968.2314.193.camel@adam.local.net> <20091019224132.GB6301@victoria.internal.frields.org> <1256080674.2314.305.camel@adam.local.net> <4ADE4616.2080600@fedoraproject.org> <1256103613.2314.393.camel@adam.local.net> Message-ID: <4ADE9EFA.2040002@fedoraproject.org> On 10/21/2009 11:10 AM, Adam Williamson wrote: > > Oh, it's definitely good, didn't want to give any other impression! Just > thinking of ways to make it better. Yeah. Just suggesting a way to get a early start. Rahul From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Oct 22 00:12:24 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 20:12:24 -0400 Subject: GA Announcement Work Message-ID: Can I get some volunteers to work on the GA Announcement? This needs to be complete by November 10. --Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Oct 22 02:24:09 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:24:09 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-22 IRC Log Message-ID: 00:00:15 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:00:15 Meeting started Thu Oct 22 00:00:15 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:00:15 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:00:21 #topic Roll Call 00:00:23 * Sparks 00:00:58 * stickster auditing 00:01:30 stickster: auditing? 00:01:41 you know, like a college course for no credit 00:02:09 stickster: ha 00:04:47 * Sparks thinks this is going to be a short meeting 00:05:41 * jjmcd is here, you want me to make some trouble? 00:05:52 Now you're talking ;-) 00:06:00 Yikes 00:06:05 Okay, let's get started 00:06:19 * jjmcd is in a pretty good mood today, tho, just picked up my new roller skate 00:06:26 #topic Beta Release Announcement 00:06:49 So this got done. Should we start working on the GA Release Announcement? 00:06:51 adamw and mether did a great job pulling the bulk of that text together 00:07:00 +1 00:07:02 I just wanted to make sure they got a big pat on the back 00:07:02 yeah they did 00:07:14 #info adamw and mether kudos for work on the Beta release announcement 00:07:26 stickster: Thanks 00:07:27 thanks 00:07:42 Of course every time they got it right that stickster guy would go in and mess it up 00:07:42 i'll try and find time to poke at the final release announcement text, but things are kinda hectic around here atm :) 00:07:52 who is that 'frields' clown anyway? 00:07:54 jjmcd: That's why I have a manager job 00:07:58 PHB on the loose 00:08:02 LOL 00:08:10 * Sparks goes to lock out managers from the wiki 00:08:34 I wanted to point out that adamw and I had a very good side conversation about tying the announcement more closely to the press releases that Red Hat does around our test and final releases. 00:08:56 I saw some noise on the list around a UK press release 00:09:16 I'll pull that stuff together into a proposal for what we can do with the GA shortly. It won't be a huge game changer from the POV of actually getting the announcement done, although we will want to complete it by about a week or so prior to the release. 00:09:37 right, i think we more or less agreed on some fairly small changes that should address the issues 00:10:07 stickster: What day should we have the final announcement ready? 00:10:12 From the perspective of the Docs team, it's still really about creating a good GA announcement. 00:10:29 I would say you want it available by November 10. 00:10:31 * danielsmw sneaks in 00:10:53 * Sparks notes danielsmw was tardy and will volunteer him for something later 00:11:10 * danielsmw raises an eyebrow 00:11:12 #action GA Announcement to be ready by November 10 00:11:14 That's a week ahead of the release, which means plenty of time for Red Hat to tweak it for a press release. 00:11:40 We might end up fine-tuning that date a bit, but I feel like that's a good place to start. 00:11:48 More will be on the list shortly. 00:12:53 stickster: I just asked for volunteers on the list. Maybe you can respond to that message with additional info? 00:13:06 Sparks: sure thing 00:13:14 Okay, anything else? 00:13:17 * stickster will try to get that out by tomorrow. 00:13:33 FAD travelers start arriving in town tomorrow evening so I'll be tied up through Sunday. 00:13:54 #topic f-r-n.rpm 00:14:14 jjmcd: How are the FRN doing? 00:14:32 We need to get updated pots to L10N shortly 00:14:41 Otherwise, latest drafts on docs.fp.o 00:14:58 jjmcd: Okay. Did you become an owner of the RPM so you can update it yourself? 00:15:07 Not yet, working on that 00:15:16 Got some help on a reviewe request 00:15:21 but not complete yet 00:15:44 529387 00:15:48 jjmcd: Okay. If you need help with getting the package in the CVS, built, and in bodhi just let me know 00:15:58 .bug 529387 00:15:59 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=529387 medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: rcrpanel - Create a front panel for an electronics device 00:16:00 Sparks: Bug 529387 Review Request: rcrpanel - Create a front panel for an electronics device - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=529387 00:16:02 Bug 529387: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: rcrpanel - Create a front panel for an electronics device 00:16:24 Got advice from several people but not approved yet 00:16:47 Ya... looks like my first package. HI HI 00:17:05 Gotta do what we gotta do 00:17:09 jjmcd: Are the RNs on schedule, still? Do you see any problems with getting all the work done? 00:17:17 Really, no 00:17:26 I think I will have more updates than I would like 00:17:31 but not a terrible lot 00:18:04 Ok 00:18:06 This business of doing it at a higher level really eases the burden on everyone 00:18:14 Not just L10N 00:18:19 Need anything? 00:18:32 Not right now, will in a couple weeks 00:18:38 When I need to push the rpm 00:18:56 Okay, anything else on the RNs? 00:19:04 not from here 00:19:13 Okay, moving on. 00:19:18 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:19:34 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:19:50 Any updated on Zikula? 00:21:25 Well, both Polls and Advanced Polls were approved. Advanced Polls got into the CVS and have been pushed to stable. 00:21:43 I'm still waiting for Polls to get room in CVS and then I'll push those to Bodhi too. 00:22:22 I got a notice that crpTag and MultiHook packages were being deleted from the F-12 branch for some reason so I need to investigate that further. 00:22:55 I'm still waiting on approval for Xinha. 00:23:55 danielsmw: See if nb can help you with that. He did both of my packages in record time. 00:24:07 ? 00:24:09 I think ke4qqq is working on it. 00:24:15 reviews needed? 00:24:47 nb: not yet, but I might let you know depending on whether or not ke4qqq can find the time 00:24:47 nb: danielsmw has a package that he's been working on. Not sure if ke4qqq has had time to review. 00:24:50 I know he's busy 00:24:55 oh 00:25:04 danielsmw, whats the url? 00:25:06 or bug #? 00:25:17 528003 00:25:23 .bug 528003 00:25:24 Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=528003 medium, low, ---, david, ASSIGNED, Review Request: Xinha - Javascript library for making textarea's WYSIWYG 00:25:25 nb: Bug 528003 Review Request: Xinha - Javascript library for making textarea's WYSIWYG - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=528003 00:25:27 Bug 528003: medium, low, ---, david, ASSIGNED, Review Request: Xinha - Javascript library for making textarea's WYSIWYG 00:26:30 Okay, I'll let you two work on this post meeting. 00:26:33 ok 00:26:51 Anything else on Zikula? Will we be ready to deploy after F12? 00:26:58 * stickster pretty sure that ke4qqq is still digging himself out at $DAYJOB and blocking on him may not move things forward as fast as desired. 00:27:07 sorry, catching up to buffer 00:27:44 Cool, looks like nb is on it 00:27:48 00:28:00 stickster: no problem 00:28:13 Okay, anything else? 00:28:39 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:28:48 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:29:17 Okay, I haven't heard anything back from guide owners about updating their guides. 00:29:34 f11 and f12 guides all updated and re-uploaded 00:29:44 rudi: All of them? 00:29:47 Yes. 00:29:52 Well, almost 00:29:52 rudi: You did this? 00:29:55 Yes. 00:30:04 rudi: Don't you have a job? :) 00:30:08 rudi++ 00:30:27 I only left out about a zillion incomplete translations of the F11 Release Notes 00:30:35 * Sparks needs to figure out what to do with fedora-security-guide...rpm 00:30:47 Yeah, you go rudi. Also saw various repairs 00:30:57 * danielsmw has done much less than he'd hoped on the UG at this point 00:30:59 Ah yes, and I didn't touch the security guide or SELinux guid 00:31:22 danielsmw -- since we missed the L10N deadline on the UG, I think we have to be thinking in terms of F13 00:31:27 rudi: What the heck? :) I need to get up with radsy on the SG 00:31:35 rudi: that works 00:33:52 #action Sparks to follow up with ianweller to check on wiki license update status 00:34:29 #action Sparks to follow up with quaid to check on courtesy note to previous contributors 00:34:56 Should we make our license change coorespond to the F12 release? 00:35:28 Sparks -- might be better not to 00:35:39 Otherwise the announcement might get lost in the rest of the fanfare 00:35:51 This way, you get two lots of publicity :) 00:35:55 true 00:36:21 So before or after? 00:37:49 Well... I'd like to be ready to go by next week... if that's possible. I think most of the hard work has been completed. 00:38:00 I think the sooner the better 00:38:08 +1 00:38:27 Okay, anything else on this topic? 00:38:56 #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:39:04 #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:39:08 Any update on this? 00:39:31 Nothing this week 00:39:51 Okay. Do we need to keep this on the agenda each week? 00:40:11 Maybe not till we get some traction on it 00:40:27 I'll make sure that anything that happens gets mentioned at the soonest meeting 00:40:28 Ya. Okay, just remind me when the wheels grab the ground. 00:40:33 cool 00:40:34 Yeppa 00:40:40 Sparks: rudi: Is there something a new person could do to help move that item? 00:41:05 Not unless they're internal to Red Hat :) 00:41:30 Wait, wasn't that a cross-distro external project that came up at WOSCon? 00:41:32 I think rudi was working on getting the RH guide released... I don't know if Fedora's guide is even compiled well enough to release 00:41:43 Sparks -- that's correct 00:41:47 Oh, oh, I see -- rudi's talking about the specific task of getting that guide out 00:41:59 yes 00:42:01 I'm talking more broadly about engaging with the folks who are working on this externally 00:42:08 In other communities. 00:42:28 If our answer is "at some point Red Hat will get this done," they do have the ability to simply move on without us. 00:42:28 yeah, I'm not even sure we have someone on point for this 00:42:38 Well, we've been real slack on this for a while. I think ke4qqq was going to champion it but then life happened. 00:42:55 ahhh, yes. RL can be such a pain 00:43:02 I don't think we're a blocker for them, but will check upstream. 00:43:05 Sure, I'm not expecting any of the few people here in this meeting to suddenly say, "I want to do it! Me!" :-) 00:43:17 rudi: Yeah, that's my point. 00:43:20 I heard stickster say he wanted to do it. 00:43:35 Sparks: Funny, but that's not my point 00:44:02 I think we need to get our style guide put together before we can offer it to anyone else. 00:44:04 My point is, can we identify something that a new Docs contributor can do to engage with these other upstreams in the absence of some Red Hat material which we don't know will emerge or when? 00:44:10 Sparks: We have some of it on our wiki. 00:44:18 Has anyone offered that? 00:44:28 If not, would that be a task that a new Docs person could work on? 00:44:35 Absolutely 00:44:38 I think it could/would be 00:44:52 AIUI, things are at a very embryonic stage 00:45:03 I don't think even a format for the project has been decided yet 00:45:25 rudi: I haven't heard anything from the original requestors lately 00:47:19 Okay, anything else? 00:47:30 So, as with other groups in Fedora, it's a good idea to figure out what we could interest lurkers or new volunteers in doing 00:47:51 esp. with things that haven't taken off like we'd hoped... sometimes those are the best things to involve a new enthusiast 00:47:56 00:48:35 stickster: Good poing 00:48:39 s/poing/point 00:49:08 Okay, moving on 00:49:15 #topic Outstanding BZ Tickets 00:50:03 #link http://tinyurl.com/ylg2xqm 00:50:29 We have accumulated a bunch of tickets that have not been accepted. Many of them I think are being looked at. 00:51:13 When you get a ticket please go ahead and assign it to yourself so the person that sent the ticket will know that someone is actually looking at it and that the ticket isn't just sitting there. 00:51:44 I know it's a bad feeling, to me, to take the time to file a ticket and then have it just sit there seemingly not getting any attention. 00:52:10 Many thanks to ke4qqq for jumping in and grabbing some IG tickets 00:53:02 Any comments before we move on? 00:59:26 Okay... not sure what happened there. 01:00:13 TAP TAP TAP, is this thing still on? 01:00:27 #topic Other business 01:00:28 yes 01:00:29 nope 01:00:37 Okay, anything else? 01:01:25 Okay, thanks everyone for coming tonight. 01:01:33 take care 01:01:46 I'll have the meeting minutes and next week's agenda posted later tonight. 01:01:50 #endmeeting From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Oct 22 02:24:44 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:24:44 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-10-22 Summary Message-ID: =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:00:15 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-10-22/fedora-meeting.2009-10-22-00.00.log.html . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (Sparks, 00:00:21) * Beta Release Announcement (Sparks, 00:06:26) * adamw and mether kudos for work on the Beta release announcement (stickster, 00:07:14) * ACTION: GA Announcement to be ready by November 10 (Sparks, 00:11:12) * f-r-n.rpm (Sparks, 00:13:54) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (Sparks, 00:19:18) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks, 00:19:34) * Status on CC license rollout. (Sparks, 00:28:39) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule (Sparks, 00:28:48) * ACTION: Sparks to follow up with ianweller to check on wiki license update status (Sparks, 00:33:52) * ACTION: Sparks to follow up with quaid to check on courtesy note to previous contributors (Sparks, 00:34:29) * Shared open-source style guide (Sparks, 00:38:56) * LINK: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html (Sparks, 00:39:04) * Outstanding BZ Tickets (Sparks, 00:49:15) * LINK: http://tinyurl.com/ylg2xqm (Sparks, 00:50:03) * Other business (Sparks, 01:00:27) Meeting ended at 01:01:50 UTC. Action Items ------------ * GA Announcement to be ready by November 10 * Sparks to follow up with ianweller to check on wiki license update status * Sparks to follow up with quaid to check on courtesy note to previous contributors Action Items, by person ----------------------- * Sparks * Sparks to follow up with ianweller to check on wiki license update status * Sparks to follow up with quaid to check on courtesy note to previous contributors * **UNASSIGNED** * GA Announcement to be ready by November 10 People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * Sparks (87) * stickster (38) * jjmcd (27) * rudi (22) * danielsmw (9) * nb (7) * adamw (4) * buggbot (4) * zodbot (4) * radsy (1) * Sparks_ (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Oct 22 06:13:44 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:43:44 +0530 Subject: GA Announcement Work In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ADFF818.8070202@fedoraproject.org> On 10/22/2009 05:42 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > Can I get some volunteers to work on the GA Announcement? This needs > to be complete by November 10. Go from here https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Announcement Rahul From kwade at redhat.com Thu Oct 22 17:55:21 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:55:21 -0700 Subject: RPM content - valuable? still interested? Message-ID: <20091022175521.GB30924@calliope.phig.org> Hi: A few months ago we had a discussion on this list around RPM content. IIRC, some folks from rpm.org were asking if Fedora Docs folks wanted to work on updating 'Maximum RPM'. We also have the 'RPM Guide' in our collection, waiting for updating. Does it make sense to look at merging these two works in to one, new, canonical RPM guide? http://www.rpm.org/max-rpm/ http://docs.fedoraproject.org/drafts/rpm-guide-en/ Figuring it made sense to at least be _able_ to merge them, I have been working on getting the approvals to have both works relicensed to the CC BY SA 3.0 Unported. People who want to work on RPM content -- is this relicensing work still valuable to you? I've made some progress: * 'Maximum RPM' relicensing requests are all completed and replied to. * We have tentative or real approval from all major copyright holders. With still more to go: * There is some work to do with the 'Max RPM' source to remove some work that will not be relicensed. * I still need to contact the author of the 'RPM Guide'. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Oct 26 00:17:31 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 20:17:31 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504067] Student mentoring In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200910260017.n9Q0HVYx012462@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504067 Karsten Wade changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Flag|needinfo?(kwade at redhat.com) |needinfo? --- Comment #2 from Karsten Wade 2009-10-25 20:17:30 EDT --- I've lost the context for this bug report/request. Is this a work tracking bug? What is the scope/goal? -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Oct 26 11:37:19 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 07:37:19 -0400 Subject: Updating the Security Guide on docs.fp.o Message-ID: I haven't had the opportunity to update anything on docs.fp.o since the code change. What do I need to do to update the SG? I have HTML and HTML-single in hand. --Eric From r.landmann at redhat.com Mon Oct 26 20:35:00 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 06:35:00 +1000 Subject: Updating the Security Guide on docs.fp.o In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AE607F4.3080102@redhat.com> On 10/26/2009 09:37 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > I haven't had the opportunity to update anything on docs.fp.o since > the code change. What do I need to do to update the SG? I have HTML > and HTML-single in hand. > So, if you've rebuilt the SG using the new version of the publican-fedora package that adds the CC license info, all you need to to is re-upload the files to: security-guide/en_US/F12/html security-guide/en_US/F12/html-single security-guide/en_US/F12/pdf Dutch and Spanish are also showing 100% complete on Transifex and need to go to: security-guide/es_ES/F12/html security-guide/es_ES/F12/html-single security-guide/es_ES/F12/pdf security-guide/nlcNL/F12/html security-guide/nl_NL/F12/html-single security-guide/nl_NL/F12/pdf Dutch and Spanish then need to be added to: f12docs.php Just copy the