From ian at ianweller.org Tue Sep 1 03:12:45 2009 From: ian at ianweller.org (Ian Weller) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 22:12:45 -0500 Subject: CC BY-SA announcement drafts (also: holy crap ian did something!) In-Reply-To: <20090831174412.7eb414da@calliope> References: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> <4A9C41DD.6040505@fedoraproject.org> <20090831174412.7eb414da@calliope> Message-ID: <20090901031234.GA29636@deathray.ianweller.org> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 05:44:12PM -0400, Richard Fontana wrote: > On Tue, 01 Sep 2009 03:04:21 +0530 > Rahul Sundaram wrote: > > > On 09/01/2009 03:04 AM, Ian Weller wrote: > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release > > > > > > These are really crappy. Help make them better. Maybe we should > > > combine them, I don't know. > > > > Afaik, we specifically picked the "unported" version rather than the > > U.S specific version. Am I wrong? > > You are correct, sir. > And now, the mantra of the wiki: "Fix it!" :) -- Your Wiki Czar -- Ian Weller "Why, a four-year-old could understand this report. Find me a four-year-old child. I can't make head or tail out of it." -- Groucho Marx, "Duck Soup" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Sep 1 03:13:33 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:13:33 -0700 Subject: Upcoming schedule tasks Message-ID: <4A9C915D.7010208@redhat.com> Name Start End Port Wiki to Publican Fri 2009-08-28 Thu 2009-09-03 Remind Translation: Beta Rel Notes POT Coming Tue 2009-09-01 Tue 2009-09-01 Generate POT files for all fed-rel-notes.rpm content Tue 2009-09-08 Tue 2009-09-08 Remind announce-list & f-deve-announce Thu 2009-09-10 Thu 2009-09-10 From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Sep 1 22:15:21 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 18:15:21 -0400 Subject: Out of town for this week's meeting References: Message-ID: Eric I can cover it. --McD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:52 AM Subject: Out of town for this week's meeting > I'll be out of town this week during the meeting time. Can I get a > volunteer to direct the meeting? > > --Eric > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Sep 1 22:19:20 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 1 Sep 2009 18:19:20 -0400 Subject: Out of town for this week's meeting In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Thank you! On Tue, Sep 1, 2009 at 18:15, John J. McDonough wrote: > Eric > > I can cover it. > > --McD > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Christensen" > > To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" > > Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 9:52 AM > Subject: Out of town for this week's meeting > > >> I'll be out of town this week during the meeting time. ?Can I get a >> volunteer to direct the meeting? >> >> --Eric >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Sep 3 01:19:26 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 21:19:26 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-09-03 Summary Message-ID: <15537C86110B4F428CF7226A5C810AD7@Aidan> =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by jjmcd at 00:00:45 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-03/fedora-meeting.2009-09-03-00.00.log.html . Meeting log ----------- * Roll call (jjmcd, 00:01:06) * Last week's action items (jjmcd, 00:03:06) * Status on CMS (jjmcd, 00:10:24) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (jjmcd, 00:10:34) * Status on CC license rollout (jjmcd, 00:12:00) * Guide needs (jjmcd, 00:15:25) * New business (jjmcd, 00:16:27) Meeting ended at 00:24:08 UTC. Action Items ------------ Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * jjmcd (51) * rudi (18) * ianweller (7) * ryanlerch (4) * zodbot (2) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.3 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Sep 3 01:21:26 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 2 Sep 2009 21:21:26 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-09-03 IRC Log Message-ID: <939DD77104404627858D24B9176525C1@Aidan> 00:00:45 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:00:45 Meeting started Thu Sep 3 00:00:45 2009 UTC. The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:00:45 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:01:06 #topic Roll call 00:01:34 * jjmcd is here 00:01:51 * ryanlerch is here 00:01:51 * rudi is here 00:02:46 Wonder where is ianweller, ke4qqq, danielsmw 00:03:06 #topic Last week's action items 00:03:43 rudi - anything on changing the license info on Publican? 00:03:59 jjmcd -- yep; we're just about good to go 00:04:29 And -- best news -- I can confirm that we will have a new brand package shortly 00:04:43 To support Publican 0.X 00:04:51 outstanding 00:05:20 Do I understand we will do the F12 docs with 0.x and wait for 1.x until next cycle? 00:05:55 I think that's the safest assumption for now, although 1.x should be ready by then. 00:06:09 if so, we'll use that :) 00:06:24 Presumably the document source is mostly compatible? 00:06:29 Yes! 00:06:47 All that needs to change is swap the Makefile for a publican.cfg file 00:06:48 Good deal. Does the brand package fix the IE error? 00:06:57 1.x has the conversion utility built into it 00:07:17 Won't fix the IE error as things stand now 00:07:19 * ianweller is here but really isn't here 00:08:00 Bummer - makes us look like amateurs to 80% of the folks out there - oh well, I guess I'll grok some bach for the RNs 00:08:07 s/bach/bash 00:08:46 OK, last time there was an action item I didn't understand - co-maintainer for 0 00:09:34 That's about the packaging -- that won't be needed. 00:09:40 excellent 00:09:48 Anything else on action items? 00:10:09 Pay attention for a bit ianweller 00:10:22 hi 00:10:24 #topic Status on CMS 00:10:34 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:10:41 Anything to report 00:10:49 not from me 00:10:56 i haven't been very active in the CMS (or anything) 00:11:28 * jjmcd is just getting back after a long string of distractions 00:11:57 This may turn out to be a short meeting 00:12:00 #topic Status on CC license rollout 00:12:28 ianweller, seems like you're the only knowledgable one here as well, altho maybe rudi has something to add 00:12:48 i did a RFC for the announcements 00:12:52 haven't heard of anything else 00:13:21 Nothing to add -- we're good to go from Red Hat's side 00:13:53 I gather we understand what we have to do in terms of legalese, logos, etc.? It's just a matter of pulling the trigger? 00:14:06 jjmcd -- yep; all good. 00:14:14 cool beans 00:14:36 Anything else on CC? 00:15:25 #topic Guide needs 00:15:34 Anyone need anything? 00:16:14 boy it's quiet in here - must be something good on TV 00:16:27 #topic New business 00:16:45 Anyone have anything for the good of the order? 00:16:58 nope 00:17:02 I think it's the calm before the storm :) 00:17:28 I've been trying to get the change tables set up for the beats. The rpm_groups are so screwed up it is a major pita 00:17:52 ryanlerch, did you see what we are planning for F12 or was it just GMTA? 00:18:41 must not be paying attention - he joined just before the meeting 00:19:02 jjmcd: i havent seen it, no... 00:19:07 is there a link? 00:19:22 I can fill you in afterwards :) 00:19:27 okies 00:19:34 hmmmm, I don't have it offhand. Basically we intend to capture all changes 00:19:55 However, I cheat :) 00:20:24 * jjmcd isn't quite the glutton for punishment that ryanlerch is 00:21:04 OK, that brings us to the end of a very short meeting, anything else? 00:21:19 jjmcd -- this is what ryanlerch did for RHEL5.4 -- http://fossdocs.wordpress.com/2009/09/02/red-hat-enterprise-linux-5-4-technical-notes-every-change-to-every-package/ 00:21:42 I saw a planet entry 00:21:47 That's why I asked 00:21:55 (Which is why he's been scarce in Fedoraspace lately ;) ) 00:22:16 It's /awesome/ -- http://www.redhat.com/docs/en-US/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/5.4/html/Technical_Notes/ :) 00:22:19 ryanlerch, I have a little C prog that compares the F11 and F12 repos and spits out XML tables 00:23:07 My main incentive was to reduce translation for all those minor changes but still capture them 00:23:15 OK, I guess that's it 00:23:18 5 00:23:26 4 00:23:36 3 00:23:45 2 00:23:54 1 00:24:01 0 00:24:05 Thanks everyone 00:24:08 #endmeeting From noriko at redhat.com Thu Sep 3 05:12:35 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 15:12:35 +1000 Subject: Beta Release Notes Message-ID: <4A9F5043.9000201@redhat.com> Hi docs team Sorry I missed out today's meeting, and please allow me to ask the question here. According to Fedora 12 Schedule, it was 1-Sep (Tue) that the reminder of 'Beta rel-notes POT coming' to be sent to trans team, but it has not happened yet. What is the status of Beta rel-notes, can trans team expect to have PO files on 8-Sep as scheduled? Thanks noriko From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Sep 3 12:58:45 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 3 Sep 2009 08:58:45 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Beta Release Notes: How you can help References: <4A9992F5.5020602@fedoraproject.org> <1251661797.2924.62.camel@seitan.home.bewley.net> Message-ID: <373D3D2D8EAE494699E288794CFEC6C8@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Bewley" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 3:49 PM Subject: Re: Fedora 12 Beta Release Notes: How you can help > I finally found a couple hours to get started on a rough draft[2] of the > virtualization relnotes today. > > [1] > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Dale/Drafts/F11_Virtualization_Release_Notes > [2] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats/Virtualization Dale We want to include a table of changes in each beat. I have added that table to the Virtualization beat, although i suspect my list of packages isn't complete. The differences noted are those between the current F11 and F12 Alpha. This eliminates the need for your list of "xxx updated to..." (which I didn't delete). Three advantages by putting it in a table: 1) A user looking for a particular bugfix or feature can find it quickly, 2) the table doesn't need to be translated, and 3) the table can be generated programatically. This way the beat prose can focus on the really cool stuff, and little details can be left for the upstream notes. My list of packages is: gnome-applet-vm gpxe guestfish libguestfs libvirt netcf python-virtinst qemu-kvm virt-df virt-inspector virt-manager virt-top virt-viewer Let me know what is missing. Thanks, --McD From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Thu Sep 3 18:15:04 2009 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Thu, 03 Sep 2009 11:15:04 -0700 Subject: open release notes beats and unconfirmed status Message-ID: <1252001704.23992.13.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> According to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Beats there are quite a few open beats, unconfirmed writers (*), and beats still containing F11 content (#). If you have begun work on a F12 beat, it would be helpful if you could confirm your status (remove *), and update the status of the beat if there is no longer obsolete F11 info present (remove #). If you've never written a beat, why don't you consider joining in on the fun?! It's not as difficult as you may think, and you will learn a lot about the topic you choose to cover. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/How_to_be_a_release_notes_beat_writer From mel at redhat.com Fri Sep 4 05:45:04 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Fri, 04 Sep 2009 01:45:04 -0400 Subject: Fedora print magazine proposal from Linux Pro Magazine Message-ID: <4AA0A960.20401@redhat.com> Marketing! Logistics! Documentation! News! Design! Ambassadors! (If I've missed a group that should know about this, please forward it on and let me know.) Linux Pro Magazine (LPM) has proposed to make a special Fedora print issue for F12 - thousands of magazines out on newsstands internationally with an F12 DVD tucked inside. This would be very, very cool. We're trying to figure out whether this is possible, whether we should do it, and (if both of those are "yes"), how the balance of work would be distributed between the Fedora community (perhaps with help from the Red Hat Brand team) and LPM. We'd love your thoughts and feedback. This is moving quite rapidly (it first came up on Wednesday afternoon; we need to give a yes or no for F12 next week), so I've summarized the current state of things on a project page at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine. We would particularly love your ideas for https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine#Contribution_balance. Rikki Kite from LPM is being absolutely awesome about transparency for this entire process, has made a version of the proposal for public consumption (it's all the information that we have, minus financials and circulation numbers): https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine_proposal. If you have any questions, please add them to https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine#Questions - myself, Max Spevack, Karsten Wade, and David Nalley will be calling Rikki and the folks at LPM tomorrow (Friday), so that'll be a first chance (definitely not the last!) to get some of these questions answered. --Mel PS: One of the most surprising things I've learned in the last 24 hours is that the good folks down in LATAM are already doing a Fedora magazine - see https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_print_magazine#Of_Magazine_work_done_by_the_Fedora_community. Ambassadors *rock.* From kwade at redhat.com Fri Sep 4 23:57:08 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 16:57:08 -0700 Subject: CC BY-SA announcement drafts (also: holy crap ian did something!) In-Reply-To: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> References: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> Message-ID: <20090904235708.GE18490@calliope.phig.org> On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 04:34:39PM -0500, Ian Weller wrote: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release > > These are really crappy. Help make them better. Maybe we should combine > them, I don't know. I threw some stuff in to highlight that our content is more than distro-focused. Pretty good stuff. It's short, but why be more? Marketing might want to add some fluff, which is OK, too. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Sep 5 00:02:21 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 4 Sep 2009 17:02:21 -0700 Subject: ready to finish relicensing? Message-ID: <20090905000221.GF18490@calliope.phig.org> At this weeks meeting, Rudi said the Publican 0.4x package *would* get updated to include the new CC BY-SA licensing page. Are we ready to pick a firm date to, "Make it so"? - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mel at redhat.com Sat Sep 5 18:53:37 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Sat, 05 Sep 2009 14:53:37 -0400 Subject: CC BY-SA announcement drafts (also: holy crap ian did something!) In-Reply-To: <20090904235708.GE18490@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> <20090904235708.GE18490@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4AA2B3B1.2000701@redhat.com> On 09/04/2009 07:57 PM, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 04:34:39PM -0500, Ian Weller wrote: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release > Marketing might want to add some fluff, which is OK, too. Marketing fluff added. ;) How is this press release getting released, when, and where-to? Sorry I haven't been able to keep up with this discussion previously. Specifically, I added: * The standard "this is a press release!" headers ("FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE", location/date before the body text) * A headline (Fedora Project relicenses content to CC-BY-SA) * A boilerplate snip of org info at the bottom, yanked from http://fedoraproject.org/ (do we have a more official one to use for press releases? I couldn't find one.) * A shiny quote from Ian (this just in from IRC) * A contact info section * ### at the bottom, which is PRspeak for "end of press release" (For an example of what a professional press release looks like, see http://www.redhat.com/about/news/prarchive/2009/fedora11.html - you'll see all these elements in there.) It still needs: * filling in of contact information at the bottom - Marketing folks, how we want to handle press releases is probably something we want to figure out in general at some point. * copyediting (I suck at making sure spelling/grammar/etc is 100% correct; my quick pass usually gets things to 90-95%) * more nice quotes, perhaps from Sparks or quaid or stickster - something like... "This relicensing effort will enable us to $list_of_awesomeness, we'd like to thank $these_people," said $name, $impressive-sounding-title. "$shiny_media_soundbite!" Docs folks, if you want more help with this, can you shoot us a ticket (https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/newticket) and summarize this email thread in the comments so that we have a bit of context? --Mel From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Sat Sep 5 19:01:10 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Sun, 06 Sep 2009 00:31:10 +0530 Subject: CC BY-SA announcement drafts (also: holy crap ian did something!) In-Reply-To: <20090904235708.GE18490@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> <20090904235708.GE18490@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4AA2B576.7030708@fedoraproject.org> On 09/05/2009 05:27 AM, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Mon, Aug 31, 2009 at 04:34:39PM -0500, Ian Weller wrote: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Ianweller/Creative_Commons_press_release >> >> These are really crappy. Help make them better. Maybe we should combine >> them, I don't know. > > I threw some stuff in to highlight that our content is more than > distro-focused. > > Pretty good stuff. It's short, but why be more? > > Marketing might want to add some fluff, which is OK, too. Added a couple of sentences on why. I would prefer we explicitly list what all is being re-licensed: * Fedora Project Documentation * Fedora Project wiki Anything else? Rahul From wb8rcr at arrl.net Sat Sep 5 20:31:55 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Sat, 5 Sep 2009 16:31:55 -0400 Subject: CC BY-SA announcement drafts (also: holy crap iandid something!) References: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org><20090904235708.GE18490@calliope.phig.org> <4AA2B576.7030708@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <2DA17FAEDC8649F18F36AE1A4E70315D@Aidan> What about throwing in something along the lines of: "The Fedora Project, which has traditionally had among the best documentation around, has recenty been expanding and updating it's documentation, including updated Install and User guides, and a new Security Guide, plus more. This is content that others might well make use of. We realized that our older license would not allow this sharing as well as CC-bySA. We understand that if others can improve their documentation by borrowing part of ours, the entire community benefits. This made the decision to change to something more compatible an obvious one." Too long, but we should say something like that. --McD From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Sep 8 14:44:46 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 08 Sep 2009 07:44:46 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Documentation Schedule Reminder Message-ID: <4AA66DDE.6020400@redhat.com> Name Start End Generate POT files for all fed-rel-notes.rpm content Tue 2009-09-08 Tue 2009-09-08 Remind announce-list & f-deve-announce Thu 2009-09-10 Thu 2009-09-10 Wiki Freeze: Beta Release Notes Tue 2009-09-15 Tue 2009-09-15 String Freeze: release-notes.rpm Wed 2009-09-16 Wed 2009-09-16 Import publican to fedorahosted.org/release-notes.rpm Wed 2009-09-16 Thu 2009-09-17 Remind new guide owners SRPM package review Thu 2009-09-17 Thu 2009-09-17 Reminder to Trans that POTs coming and how many Tue 2009-09-22 Tue 2009-09-22 From noriko at redhat.com Wed Sep 9 04:24:25 2009 From: noriko at redhat.com (Noriko Mizumoto) Date: Wed, 09 Sep 2009 14:24:25 +1000 Subject: Fedora 12 Translation Schedule Reminder In-Reply-To: <4AA66DE0.1020809@redhat.com> References: <4AA66DE0.1020809@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AA72DF9.3070307@redhat.com> John Poelstra ????????: > Name Start End > Final Software Translation Period (POT to PO) Tue 2009-08-04 Thu > 2009-09-10 > Translate Beta Release Notes Tue 2009-09-08 Thu 2009-09-17 The entry of "Docs :: Release Notes" has not yet been appeared in Fedora 12 collection in Transifex. Can someone please provide any follow-up info? noriko From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Sep 10 01:27:55 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:27:55 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting Log 2009-09-10 Message-ID: <8C45C5D348D941C893B0D9D916FCA8CD@Aidan> 00:03:02 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:03:02 Meeting started Thu Sep 10 00:03:02 2009 UTC. The chair is jjmcd. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:03:02 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:03:11 two minutes - he's not gonna show 00:03:23 #topic Roll Call 00:03:28 * danielsmw 00:03:29 * jjmcd is here 00:03:31 * bcotton is here 00:03:34 * rudi is here 00:03:57 * jjmcd needs more windows to do this 00:04:07 #topic Last week's action items 00:04:29 danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite - where are we? 00:04:46 jjmcd: I surveyed what would work with scribite and what had what features and such 00:04:52 And I've decided on TinyMCE 00:04:58 * perspectival is here 00:05:05 the problem I've run into is the lack of guidelines on javascript library packaging 00:05:17 And especially js built with ant 00:05:26 (which I didn't actually know was possible, who knew). 00:05:48 As a new packager, I don't think I can handle that sort of task by myself. 00:05:55 It's not a time thing, just a knowledge thing. 00:06:07 Well, somebody has to be able to help with js, but ant? You may be on your own 00:06:11 So I can still do it, but I'd really appreciate if someone would be willing to sit down iwth me one day and do it. 00:06:28 There are actually pretty okay ant guidelines under Packaging/Java 00:06:36 It's the mixture of the two that I don't understand. 00:06:55 Oh, OK. What about whoever wrote those guidelines? 00:07:21 I suppose I could ask them. The JS guidelines are still in draft, though. I'm not sure that there really even are guidelines, officially. 00:07:32 Personally, it doesn't make sense to package javascript libraries. 00:07:38 Perhaps having the background of writing the guidelines they will have the perspective to be able to guide you 00:07:44 But I don't understand the going ons of Zikula 00:07:46 and such. 00:07:57 That's probably at least a start, you're right. 00:08:08 Well, Zikula isn't sooo different from other web apps 00:08:10 Okay, then I'll do that this week and hopefully get somewhere by the weekend. 00:08:24 OK, I'll try to be around to offer what little I can 00:08:30 Thanks, jjmcd 00:08:32 Maybe mostly moral support 00:08:36 :-) 00:08:57 The other items are Sparks, quaid and ianweller, none of whom are here 00:09:22 ANything else on action items? 00:09:52 #topic Release notes format changes 00:10:01 OK, here I need some help 00:10:22 I can offer moral support. :-) 00:10:25 We talked about having all changes in tables, and only a little in the way of prose 00:10:48 But there are a lot of apps that cross beats, and not all apps are covered by beats 00:11:11 And oh yeah, Alpha was really lame, only about 20% of packages, so we don't really know what we have 00:11:30 I am proposing to move the tables to the end, and organize them by rpm_group 00:11:50 With an alphabetical index, people can find anything fairly easily 00:12:13 Trouble is, it is big, but we don't really know for sure how big 00:12:31 Any thoughts on that approach? 00:12:46 * danielsmw likes alphabetical indexes. 00:13:13 Does it matter if it's too big, really? 00:13:18 besides losing some style points? 00:13:42 that might be a dumb question, I'm not familiar with RN so much 00:13:43 I don't think so. We don't add a lot to translate 00:13:48 okay. 00:14:11 The other intrinsic problem is that the rpm groups don't always make much sense 00:14:51 rudi, you got that right, but if I turn my head sideways, I can generally see how someone could imagine they belong the way they are 00:14:57 that's true. lots of things belong in more than one category in reality, so the groups are occasionally confusing. 00:15:01 Which leads me to believe that no grouping is perfect 00:15:14 Indeed 00:15:27 Example tables/index in http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha 00:15:40 Although grouping it my rpm may encourage packagers to more carefully consider the groups they use. 00:15:53 I was kind of thinking that, too 00:16:11 With the index you can find what you are looking for 00:16:13 Yeah -- it will be good if we can somehow apply some pressure in that direction 00:16:14 and not create new groups 00:16:29 or sub groups 00:16:37 Some are just stupid, like Applications/Games vs games 00:16:48 Why do you need both, pick one or the other 00:17:02 from memory, the networking one was a bit crazy too 00:17:46 The list on fedorapeople is against rawhide. I expect F12 will be smaller than that, but we don't have a feel for how much smaller because alpha was so limited 00:18:23 Yes, there are amateur radio apps in networking that have nothing to do with networking 00:19:02 Also, there are some beats with a few minor changes, I think we need to drop them rather than adding fluff 00:20:15 And I think we need to move embedded development out of development to the specialized group. It really goes with FEL 00:20:34 even tho it has the word development. It doesn't fit with the rest 00:21:20 rudi, are you pretty much there on installer? 00:21:41 Well, I haven't got anything new :) 00:22:08 I think I may have put some placeholders in there but not turned it into real prose 00:22:21 I'll take another look 00:22:35 I did go through the feature pages and tried to spatter stuff through the beats 00:23:13 We were supposed to have the 'big' pots out yesterday 00:24:27 So I intend to do what I can tomorrow and Saturday and then try to make pots saturday or sunday. The beats are nowhere near where I'd like, but L10N is waiting on us 00:25:02 I'll pitch in to help with that 00:25:11 I appreciate that rudi 00:25:19 I'll be out of town Friday 00:25:23 NP 00:25:45 But except for a few interruptions, I'll be around otherwise 00:26:07 The good news is we don't have to do all that po madness from 11 so it should be a little easier 00:26:23 although I should check with glezos on that 00:26:45 Yeah -- check. I'm assuming that we *will* have to do the po madness 00:26:45 #action jjmcd to check with glezos on po's 00:27:21 OK, anything else on release notes? 00:28:06 I'm surprised noriko didn't come over 00:28:30 We have no ke4qqq for Zikula so .... 00:28:45 #topic Status on CC license rollout 00:28:51 ANything new to report? 00:29:47 hearing nothing 00:29:58 #topic Guide needs? 00:30:08 I haz guide needs 00:30:19 Ahhhh, whatcha got? 00:30:26 I know -- I'm the blocker there 00:30:33 rudi: :-) 00:30:39 a little, rudi, but I can still write content 00:30:46 Yeppa 00:31:04 rudi: Did I send you an email about what sections I wanted to cover for F11? 00:31:10 I think I wrote it and may not have sent it 00:31:18 doesn't matter, anyway, the point is 00:31:29 I saw a link in IRC 00:31:37 okay, good 00:31:41 But you were offline by the time I read it -- I bookmarked it 00:31:52 do you still have the link by chance? 00:32:16 never mind, I got it 00:32:19 https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Danielsmw/Desktop_Guide_tasks 00:32:41 anyway, my proposal is just to work up through the first 5 chapters for F12 release. 00:32:48 There is a lot of detail in the desktop beat that I wonder whether it belongs in the desktop guide 00:33:02 jjmcd: I will take a look and see if perhaps it does 00:33:07 thanks 00:33:28 anyway, if anyone has any comment on what I've chosen to be ready for F12, now's your chance I suppose. 00:34:27 Okay, well, I'll put something out to the list, but that's all I have to say. 00:35:03 except, rudi: I really don't want to pressure you at all, because it isn't a big deal, but do you have an estimate on when you'll be ready? 00:35:09 with the Xml skeleton? 00:35:30 Looks to me like a good triage 00:35:32 Still "RSN" -- next couple of days 00:35:39 okay, that's fine. 00:35:42 (although I know I said that two days ago!!) :) 00:35:47 :) 00:36:00 * danielsmw is done with his guide needs. 00:36:14 OK, anything else on guide? 00:36:31 s/?/s? 00:36:42 ?? 00:37:09 <---- old PDP guy 00:37:14 * bcotton needs to actually work on the RPM guide, but doesnt require any external assistance at the moment (except maybe a cattle prod) 00:37:37 jjmcd: yeah, i always get confused when regexs aren't closed on the end 00:37:47 hehe - I think we all have that "the hurrier I go the behinder I get" syndrome 00:38:10 danielsmw, I'm pretty ancient, esp. as this business is concerned. 00:38:35 By the way, today is Dennis Ritchie's birthday, seems to me there should have been a lot more press about it 00:38:57 #topic All other business 00:39:08 Anything else for the good of the order? 00:39:40 Anyone else here able to sponsor new package maintainers? 00:39:40 5 00:39:45 (I think ianweller can) 00:40:00 I need one, I'll have to ask ianweller. 00:40:09 lets all gang up on the missing ianweller 00:40:12 lolz 00:40:43 We need to get some new packagers sponsored who are going to look after Publican dependencies 00:41:03 Yes, I need to get my badge as well 00:41:04 That's a current blocker for Publican 1.0 and the new Fedora brand package for 0.44 00:41:43 rudi, how can we find out about that sort of thing? 00:42:12 I raise it in a meeting? :) 00:42:40 Hey - I just got an email from mister K&R himself! 00:42:45 I suspected as much 00:43:06 It would be nice to be able to identify those things before they become painful 00:43:18 It only *just* became a blocker 00:43:37 K 00:43:40 (within the last couple of days) 00:44:26 But I didn't want to rush the sponsorship process either 00:44:33 It's important that we do things right. 00:45:04 But yeah, it's been a few days without any activity yet, so now I'm making noise :) 00:45:23 Yes, I agree. Seems like there are things we could predict, though. After all, it isn't like we don't have computers and stuff. 00:45:58 OK, anything else? 00:46:21 5 00:46:30 4 00:46:40 3 00:46:50 2 00:47:00 1 00:47:09 #endmeeting From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Sep 10 01:28:51 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 9 Sep 2009 21:28:51 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting Minutes 2009-09-10 Message-ID: =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by jjmcd at 00:03:02 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-10/fedora-meeting.2009-09-10-00.03.log.html . Meeting log ----------- * Roll Call (jjmcd, 00:03:23) * Last week's action items (jjmcd, 00:04:07) * Release notes format changes (jjmcd, 00:09:52) * ACTION: jjmcd to check with glezos on po's (jjmcd, 00:26:45) * Status on CC license rollout (jjmcd, 00:28:45) * Guide needs? (jjmcd, 00:29:58) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Danielsmw/Desktop_Guide_tasks (danielsmw, 00:32:19) * All other business (jjmcd, 00:38:57) Meeting ended at 00:47:09 UTC. Action Items ------------ * jjmcd to check with glezos on po's Action Items, by person ----------------------- * jjmcd * jjmcd to check with glezos on po's * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * jjmcd (83) * danielsmw (49) * rudi (26) * ryanlerch (3) * zodbot_ (2) * bcotton (2) * perspectival (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.3 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot From mel at redhat.com Thu Sep 10 14:55:38 2009 From: mel at redhat.com (Mel Chua) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:55:38 -0400 Subject: CC BY-SA announcement drafts (also: holy crap ian did something!) In-Reply-To: References: <20090831213439.GC2798@hovercraft.mobile.ianweller.org> <20090904235708.GE18490@calliope.phig.org> <4AA2B3B1.2000701@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AA9136A.6080200@redhat.com> > What are our goals for this particular announcement? Made a ticket, set ianweller as the owner, and put my recommended answer to this question in the first comment: https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/ticket/31#comment:1 Docs, waiting on y'all to tell us what you want from us. ;) --Mel From dhensley at redhat.com Thu Sep 10 20:40:31 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 22:40:31 +0200 Subject: Fwd: BZ Component and Product Change Request Message-ID: <4AA9643F.7030601@redhat.com> I have a pending request that I need to accomplish soon. There is a ticket for this request: https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1667 Mike, just to clarify: did you want the "doc-Deployment_Guide" component under "Fedora" or under "Fedora Documentation"? There seems to be some confusion about this. Thanks, -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From a.badger at gmail.com Thu Sep 10 21:20:56 2009 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 14:20:56 -0700 Subject: Fwd: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: <4AA9643F.7030601@redhat.com> References: <4AA9643F.7030601@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AA96DB8.2000702@gmail.com> On 09/10/2009 01:40 PM, Douglas Silas wrote: > I have a pending request that I need to accomplish soon. There is a > ticket for this request: > > https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1667 > > Mike, just to clarify: did you want the "doc-Deployment_Guide" component > under "Fedora" or under "Fedora Documentation"? There seems to be some > confusion about this. > Infrastructure is mostly unclear as to what the Fedora Documentation Project is intending here. * Is this rename something that Fedora Documentation would like to do across the Board? * Does Fedora Documentation want individual Guide maintainers to have the option to rename but not want to rename all Guides? * If it is indeed to be moved from the "Fedora Documentation" product to the "Fedora" product, why is that? Normally, "Fedora" is for packages in the distro and there's no package for the deployment guide (at least, not yet). * If shifting bugzilla products, does that need to be coordinated with the Packaging side of the project by talking to FESCo? And lots of other questions like this :-) Fedora Infrastructure can make changes, but we'd be making changes to things owned by docs and fesco so we want to make sure that the relevant owners are on-board with the changes. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Sep 10 22:06:46 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 18:06:46 -0400 Subject: Fwd: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: <4AA96DB8.2000702@gmail.com> References: <4AA9643F.7030601@redhat.com> <4AA96DB8.2000702@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 17:20, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > On 09/10/2009 01:40 PM, Douglas Silas wrote: >> I have a pending request that I need to accomplish soon. There is a >> ticket for this request: >> >> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1667 >> >> Mike, just to clarify: did you want the "doc-Deployment_Guide" component >> under "Fedora" or under "Fedora Documentation"? There seems to be some >> confusion about this. >> > Infrastructure is mostly unclear as to what the Fedora Documentation > Project is intending here. > > * Is this rename something that Fedora Documentation would like to do > across the Board? No. > > * Does Fedora Documentation want individual Guide maintainers to have > the option to rename but not want to rename all Guides? I think this should probably be brought before the group. > > * If it is indeed to be moved from the "Fedora Documentation" product to > the "Fedora" product, why is that? ?Normally, "Fedora" is for packages > in the distro and there's no package for the deployment guide (at least, > not yet). > > * If shifting bugzilla products, does that need to be coordinated with > the Packaging side of the project by talking to FESCo? > > And lots of other questions like this :-) ?Fedora Infrastructure can > make changes, but we'd be making changes to things owned by docs and > fesco so we want to make sure that the relevant owners are on-board with > the changes. > > -Toshio > Eric From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Thu Sep 10 23:49:01 2009 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 16:49:01 -0700 Subject: Docs Meeting Log 2009-09-10 In-Reply-To: <8C45C5D348D941C893B0D9D916FCA8CD@Aidan> References: <8C45C5D348D941C893B0D9D916FCA8CD@Aidan> Message-ID: <1252626541.27535.54.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 21:27 -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > 00:15:27 Example tables/index in > http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha I'm really not crazy about the huge inline tables, and I'm dubious about their usefulness. Scrolling quickly through, it makes it very difficult to pick out any text and headings. I suppose when more text is added that is less of an issue. It seems to me that something this exhaustive should be a link to a report in the packagedb. The format of this report is less useful than yours is though. Links back to the upstream page are very nice. This also doesn't compare to the previous release. https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/collections/id/21?_csrf_token=3e859ab8f97e04a2a0de070e8253a445496b8f57 How did you generate that information? Can that code we placed into the pkgdb app? From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Sep 10 23:53:24 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:53:24 -0400 Subject: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: <4AA9643F.7030601@redhat.com> References: <4AA9643F.7030601@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 16:40, Douglas Silas wrote: > I have a pending request that I need to accomplish soon. There is a > ticket for this request: > > https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1667 > > Mike, just to clarify: did you want the "doc-Deployment_Guide" component > under "Fedora" or under "Fedora Documentation"? There seems to be some > confusion about this. > > Thanks, > > -- > Douglas Silas > Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. > Has this been resolved, now? Is "Deployment_Guide" good now? --Eric From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Sep 10 23:55:59 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 19:55:59 -0400 Subject: Fwd: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: References: <4AA9643F.7030601@redhat.com> <4AA96DB8.2000702@gmail.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 18:06, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 17:20, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: >> On 09/10/2009 01:40 PM, Douglas Silas wrote: >>> I have a pending request that I need to accomplish soon. There is a >>> ticket for this request: >>> >>> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1667 >>> >>> Mike, just to clarify: did you want the "doc-Deployment_Guide" component >>> under "Fedora" or under "Fedora Documentation"? There seems to be some >>> confusion about this. >>> >> Infrastructure is mostly unclear as to what the Fedora Documentation >> Project is intending here. >> >> * Is this rename something that Fedora Documentation would like to do >> across the Board? > > No. > >> >> * Does Fedora Documentation want individual Guide maintainers to have >> the option to rename but not want to rename all Guides? > > I think this should probably be brought before the group. > >> >> * If it is indeed to be moved from the "Fedora Documentation" product to >> the "Fedora" product, why is that? ?Normally, "Fedora" is for packages >> in the distro and there's no package for the deployment guide (at least, >> not yet). >> >> * If shifting bugzilla products, does that need to be coordinated with >> the Packaging side of the project by talking to FESCo? >> >> And lots of other questions like this :-) ?Fedora Infrastructure can >> make changes, but we'd be making changes to things owned by docs and >> fesco so we want to make sure that the relevant owners are on-board with >> the changes. >> >> -Toshio >> > > Eric > Sorry for being short... I'm not feeling well today. --Eric From dhensley at redhat.com Fri Sep 11 00:01:58 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 02:01:58 +0200 Subject: BZ Component and Product Change Request Message-ID: <4AA99376.4000108@redhat.com> Not yet :-) The component name is "deployment-guide" now, and, after much confusion, it simply needs to be changed to "doc-Deployment_Guide" (with the "doc-" prefix). Its product is fine and correct. Would you be able to make this name change? Thanks again, Silas On 09/11/2009 01:53 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 16:40, Douglas Silas wrote: >> I have a pending request that I need to accomplish soon. There is a >> ticket for this request: >> >> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1667 >> >> Mike, just to clarify: did you want the "doc-Deployment_Guide" component >> under "Fedora" or under "Fedora Documentation"? There seems to be some >> confusion about this. >> >> Thanks, >> >> -- >> Douglas Silas >> Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. >> > > Has this been resolved, now? Is "Deployment_Guide" good now? > > --Eric -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From stickster at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 00:03:41 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:03:41 -0400 Subject: Fwd: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: References: <4AA9643F.7030601@redhat.com> <4AA96DB8.2000702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090911000341.GG17135@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 07:55:59PM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 18:06, Eric Christensen > wrote: > > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 17:20, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > >> On 09/10/2009 01:40 PM, Douglas Silas wrote: > >>> I have a pending request that I need to accomplish soon. There is a > >>> ticket for this request: > >>> > >>> https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1667 > >>> > >>> Mike, just to clarify: did you want the "doc-Deployment_Guide" component > >>> under "Fedora" or under "Fedora Documentation"? There seems to be some > >>> confusion about this. > >>> > >> Infrastructure is mostly unclear as to what the Fedora Documentation > >> Project is intending here. > >> > >> * Is this rename something that Fedora Documentation would like to do > >> across the Board? > > > > No. > > > >> > >> * Does Fedora Documentation want individual Guide maintainers to have > >> the option to rename but not want to rename all Guides? > > > > I think this should probably be brought before the group. > > > >> > >> * If it is indeed to be moved from the "Fedora Documentation" product to > >> the "Fedora" product, why is that? ?Normally, "Fedora" is for packages > >> in the distro and there's no package for the deployment guide (at least, > >> not yet). > >> > >> * If shifting bugzilla products, does that need to be coordinated with > >> the Packaging side of the project by talking to FESCo? > >> > >> And lots of other questions like this :-) ?Fedora Infrastructure can > >> make changes, but we'd be making changes to things owned by docs and > >> fesco so we want to make sure that the relevant owners are on-board with > >> the changes. > >> > >> -Toshio > >> > > > > Eric > > > > Sorry for being short... I'm not feeling well today. I doubt anyone thought you were short -- you're always so easy going! Hope you feel better soon! -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Sep 11 00:03:47 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:03:47 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting Log 2009-09-10 References: <8C45C5D348D941C893B0D9D916FCA8CD@Aidan> <1252626541.27535.54.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <8B2BBE250D794898B4D01163A2B5A1D7@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Bewley" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 7:49 PM Subject: Re: Docs Meeting Log 2009-09-10 > The format of this report is less useful than yours is though. Links > back to the upstream page are very nice. This also doesn't compare to > the previous release. One of the challenges we have is that the alpha was pretty weak. The report shows the difference between Fedora 11 a week or so ago, and rawhide. I'll regenerate those tables as we move closer, and hopefully beta will have a representative collection of packages. As F11 gets more goodness from the F12 effort, and as we understand what won't make it into F12, I expect the tables will get shorter, but I can't really guess how significantly. I had hoped alpha would be somewhat representative of Fedora 12, but it had only about 20% of the packages, so I had to use rawhide as a best guess. > How did you generate that information? Can that code we placed into the > pkgdb app? I don't know what the pkgdb app looks like, but the code that created the tables is in C. Basically, I compare the primary.sqlite between two repos. Unfortunately, there are a number of manual steps. I had an earlier version that just made hints for beat writers that was more automatic, but I kept changing my mind abut what I wanted, and I haven't yet learned how to code precognition. --McD From r.landmann at redhat.com Fri Sep 11 00:09:33 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 10:09:33 +1000 Subject: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: <4AA99376.4000108@redhat.com> References: <4AA99376.4000108@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AA9953D.60603@redhat.com> On 09/11/2009 10:01 AM, Douglas Silas wrote: > Not yet :-) > > The component name is "deployment-guide" now, and, after much > confusion, it simply needs to be changed to "doc-Deployment_Guide" > (with the "doc-" prefix). Its product is fine and correct. > > Would you be able to make this name change? > > Thanks again, > > Silas While we're at it, we should probably rename "install-guide" to "doc-Installation_Guide" so that is aligns properly with its Red Hat counterpart as well. Paul, you're actually the owner of this doc; are you OK with me opening an infrastructure ticket for this? (or is that something that only the component owner can do anyway?) Cheers Rudi From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Fri Sep 11 00:13:19 2009 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:13:19 -0700 Subject: colophon and contributors in rel notes Message-ID: <1252627999.27535.61.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> In F10 there was a contributors section in the colophon http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/en_US/Legal_Stuff_and_Administrivia.html#sn-Colophon In F11 the contributors were on the front page which was a little embarrassing, but also kinda cool if you have a early sorting name ;) http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11/en-US/ F12-Alpha draft does not list contributors http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha/ Can we going to go back to including contributors from the Colophon Beat at the end in F12? If so, perhaps we should blank it out and ask contributors to re-list themselves. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Colophon_Beat -- Dale Bewley - Unix Administrator - Shields Library - UC Davis GPG: 0xB098A0F3 0D5A 9AEB 43F4 F84C 7EFD 1753 064D 2583 B098 A0F3 From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Sep 11 00:18:02 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:18:02 -0400 Subject: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: <4AA9953D.60603@redhat.com> References: <4AA99376.4000108@redhat.com> <4AA9953D.60603@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 20:09, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > On 09/11/2009 10:01 AM, Douglas Silas wrote: >> >> Not yet :-) >> >> The component name is "deployment-guide" now, and, after much >> confusion, it simply needs to be changed to "doc-Deployment_Guide" >> (with the "doc-" prefix). Its product is fine and correct. >> >> Would you be able to make this name change? >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Silas > > While we're at it, we should probably rename "install-guide" to > "doc-Installation_Guide" so that is aligns properly with its Red Hat > counterpart as well. Paul, you're actually the owner of this doc; are you OK > with me opening an infrastructure ticket for this? (or is that something > that only the component owner can do anyway?) > > Cheers > Rudi I feel like the "doc-" is a bit redundant. It is already sitting under a component called "Fedora Documentation". Why do we need "doc-" in front of it? --Eric From stickster at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 00:19:34 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:19:34 -0400 Subject: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: <4AA9953D.60603@redhat.com> References: <4AA99376.4000108@redhat.com> <4AA9953D.60603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090911001934.GH17135@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:09:33AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > On 09/11/2009 10:01 AM, Douglas Silas wrote: >> Not yet :-) >> >> The component name is "deployment-guide" now, and, after much >> confusion, it simply needs to be changed to "doc-Deployment_Guide" >> (with the "doc-" prefix). Its product is fine and correct. >> >> Would you be able to make this name change? >> >> Thanks again, >> >> Silas > > While we're at it, we should probably rename "install-guide" to > "doc-Installation_Guide" so that is aligns properly with its Red Hat > counterpart as well. Paul, you're actually the owner of this doc; are > you OK with me opening an infrastructure ticket for this? (or is that > something that only the component owner can do anyway?) Actually, I believe that can be changed through the owners/owners.list (one of the last useful things in the Fedora Docs CVS). Maybe Karsten knows the answer to this -- Does a change there automatically roll into a Bugzilla change? Or was the deal that, once a component existed, we had to file a bug against Bugzilla itself to fix this? Either way, I'm sure the Infrastructure team is not involved if we're just renaming a component inside the Fedora Documentation product. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Sep 11 00:21:12 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:21:12 -0400 Subject: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: <20090911001934.GH17135@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AA99376.4000108@redhat.com> <4AA9953D.60603@redhat.com> <20090911001934.GH17135@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 20:19, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Fri, Sep 11, 2009 at 10:09:33AM +1000, Ruediger Landmann wrote: >> On 09/11/2009 10:01 AM, Douglas Silas wrote: >>> Not yet :-) >>> >>> The component name is "deployment-guide" now, and, after much >>> confusion, it simply needs to be changed to "doc-Deployment_Guide" >>> (with the "doc-" prefix). Its product is fine and correct. >>> >>> Would you be able to make this name change? >>> >>> Thanks again, >>> >>> Silas >> >> While we're at it, we should probably rename "install-guide" to >> "doc-Installation_Guide" so that is aligns properly with its Red Hat >> counterpart as well. Paul, you're actually the owner of this doc; are >> you OK with me opening an infrastructure ticket for this? (or is that >> something that only the component owner can do anyway?) > > Actually, I believe that can be changed through the owners/owners.list > (one of the last useful things in the Fedora Docs CVS). ?Maybe Karsten > knows the answer to this -- Does a change there automatically roll > into a Bugzilla change? ?Or was the deal that, once a component > existed, we had to file a bug against Bugzilla itself to fix this? > > Either way, I'm sure the Infrastructure team is not involved if we're > just renaming a component inside the Fedora Documentation product. > > -- > Paul W. Frields ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://paul.frields.org/ > ?gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 ?5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > ?http://redhat.com/ ? - ?- ?- ?- ? http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ > ?irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug It doesn't change. We'd have to request the change from the BZ administrator. --Eric From dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu Fri Sep 11 00:23:14 2009 From: dlbewley at lib.ucdavis.edu (Dale Bewley) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 17:23:14 -0700 Subject: Docs Meeting Log 2009-09-10 In-Reply-To: <8B2BBE250D794898B4D01163A2B5A1D7@Aidan> References: <8C45C5D348D941C893B0D9D916FCA8CD@Aidan> <1252626541.27535.54.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> <8B2BBE250D794898B4D01163A2B5A1D7@Aidan> Message-ID: <1252628594.27535.71.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> On Thu, 2009-09-10 at 20:03 -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > One of the challenges we have is that the alpha was pretty weak. The report > shows the difference between Fedora 11 a week or so ago, and rawhide. I would suggest that we list the package delta from f11 release date and f12. Not from current f11-updates and f12. http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2008-October/msg00028.html This better illustrates the advances made in the new fedora release. It may be true that yum update gives you some of the new packages from the next fedora release, but I think that misses the point. Particularly from a marketing perspective. -- Dale Bewley - Unix Administrator - Shields Library - UC Davis GPG: 0xB098A0F3 0D5A 9AEB 43F4 F84C 7EFD 1753 064D 2583 B098 A0F3 From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Sep 11 00:56:17 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:56:17 -0400 Subject: colophon and contributors in rel notes References: <1252627999.27535.61.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: To tell the truth, I had intended to delete that list at the beginning in F11, but never got around to it. In F10, we had a devil of a time getting that list nearly complete, and on F11, the list was nowhere near complete. Many beat writers were omitted, as were all the translators. It was so hard to get everyone it seemed better to drop the list than to overlook someone. On the other hand, I do like recognizing the contributors, especially the translators who do so much hard work. I suspect Dmitris could give us a list of translators and I could probably keep track of the beat writers, so that might not be such a tough thing to do. Let's add that to the agenda for the next meeting. --McD ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Bewley" To: Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:13 PM Subject: colophon and contributors in rel notes > In F10 there was a contributors section in the colophon > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f10/en_US/Legal_Stuff_and_Administrivia.html#sn-Colophon > > In F11 the contributors were on the front page which was a little > embarrassing, but also kinda cool if you have a early sorting name ;) > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f11/en-US/ > > F12-Alpha draft does not list contributors > http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha/ > > Can we going to go back to including contributors from the Colophon Beat > at the end in F12? If so, perhaps we should blank it out and ask > contributors to re-list themselves. > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Documentation_Colophon_Beat > > -- > Dale Bewley - Unix Administrator - Shields Library - UC Davis > GPG: 0xB098A0F3 0D5A 9AEB 43F4 F84C 7EFD 1753 064D 2583 B098 A0F3 > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Sep 11 00:59:14 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 20:59:14 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting Log 2009-09-10 References: <8C45C5D348D941C893B0D9D916FCA8CD@Aidan><1252626541.27535.54.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu><8B2BBE250D794898B4D01163A2B5A1D7@Aidan> <1252628594.27535.71.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <47602C7ED28C4E12AD378220E4D3EFDB@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Bewley" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:23 PM Subject: Re: Docs Meeting Log 2009-09-10 > I would suggest that we list the package delta from f11 release date and > f12. Not from current f11-updates and f12. I've convinced myself both ways on this. I think Paul prefers the latter, so I've avoided tinking about it too hard. I have, however, saved a primary.sqlite from the F11 release. I had actually considered a table of changes, perhaps on the wiki, from F11 GA to F11 current. I see the need for both. --McD From r.landmann at redhat.com Fri Sep 11 01:02:09 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 11:02:09 +1000 Subject: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: References: <4AA99376.4000108@redhat.com> <4AA9953D.60603@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AA9A191.2090603@redhat.com> On 09/11/2009 10:18 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > I feel like the "doc-" is a bit redundant. It is already sitting > under a component called "Fedora Documentation". Why do we need > "doc-" in front of it? > > Agree completely that it's redundant, but the "doc-" prefix would bring it in line with the Red Hat name for the component (where we sadly don't have a separate Documentation product). Given that the purpose of the exercise is to make the components align with each other, "Installation_Guide" isn't really the same as "doc-Installation_Guide"... Cheers Rudi From a.badger at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 04:52:32 2009 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2009 21:52:32 -0700 Subject: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: References: <4AA99376.4000108@redhat.com> <4AA9953D.60603@redhat.com> <20090911001934.GH17135@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4AA9D790.20107@gmail.com> On 09/10/2009 05:21 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 20:19, Paul W. Frields wrote: >> >> Actually, I believe that can be changed through the owners/owners.list >> (one of the last useful things in the Fedora Docs CVS). Maybe Karsten >> knows the answer to this -- Does a change there automatically roll >> into a Bugzilla change? Or was the deal that, once a component >> existed, we had to file a bug against Bugzilla itself to fix this? >> >> Either way, I'm sure the Infrastructure team is not involved if we're >> just renaming a component inside the Fedora Documentation product. >> >> -- >> Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ >> gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 >> http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ >> irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug > > It doesn't change. We'd have to request the change from the BZ administrator. > So if you guys decide to go for a name change, it should be a two part process. First, make the change in the owners.list file for fedora docs:: CVSROOT=:ext:toshio at cvs.fedoraproject.org/cvs/docs cvs co owners cd owners # edit owners.list and make the changes to the names of the guide. cvs commit Then you need someone to move the bugs from the old component to the new component and close out the old name. This is where a BZ admin comes in. I might have the permissions in bugzilla to do this but I'll have to check after the first part is done. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Fri Sep 11 12:18:26 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 08:18:26 -0400 Subject: BZ Component and Product Change Request In-Reply-To: <4AA9A191.2090603@redhat.com> References: <4AA99376.4000108@redhat.com> <4AA9953D.60603@redhat.com> <4AA9A191.2090603@redhat.com> Message-ID: On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 21:02, Ruediger Landmann wrote: > On 09/11/2009 10:18 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: >> >> I feel like the "doc-" is a bit redundant. ?It is already sitting >> under a component called "Fedora Documentation". ?Why do we need >> "doc-" in front of it? >> >> > > Agree completely that it's redundant, but the "doc-" prefix would bring it > in line with the Red Hat name for the component (where we sadly don't have a > separate Documentation product). Given that the purpose of the exercise is > to make the components align with each other, "Installation_Guide" isn't > really the same as "doc-Installation_Guide"... > > Cheers > Rudi > Ummm... Can I make an off-the-wall suggestion? Why not try to bring Red Hat in alignment with us since we are doing it better? It doesn't make sense to make the names redundant when we already have a solution in place to fix that problem. --Eric From stickster at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 13:18:49 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 09:18:49 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting Log 2009-09-10 In-Reply-To: <47602C7ED28C4E12AD378220E4D3EFDB@Aidan> References: <8C45C5D348D941C893B0D9D916FCA8CD@Aidan> <1252626541.27535.54.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> <8B2BBE250D794898B4D01163A2B5A1D7@Aidan> <1252628594.27535.71.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> <47602C7ED28C4E12AD378220E4D3EFDB@Aidan> Message-ID: <20090911131849.GD11347@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 08:59:14PM -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dale Bewley" > > To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" > > Sent: Thursday, September 10, 2009 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: Docs Meeting Log 2009-09-10 > > >> I would suggest that we list the package delta from f11 release date and >> f12. Not from current f11-updates and f12. > > I've convinced myself both ways on this. I think Paul prefers the > latter, so I've avoided tinking about it too hard. I have, however, > saved a primary.sqlite from the F11 release. I had actually considered a > table of changes, perhaps on the wiki, from F11 GA to F11 current. I see > the need for both. In terms of the release notes, really the best delta is F11 GA -> F12 GA. A significant portion of F11 updates come from work done on the F12 branch. If the delta we focus on is from F11 updates -> F12, we'd lose the sense that each forward-looking release cycle is contributing so heavily to advancement. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From a.badger at gmail.com Fri Sep 11 14:45:48 2009 From: a.badger at gmail.com (Toshio Kuratomi) Date: Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:45:48 -0700 Subject: Docs Meeting Log 2009-09-10 In-Reply-To: <1252626541.27535.54.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> References: <8C45C5D348D941C893B0D9D916FCA8CD@Aidan> <1252626541.27535.54.camel@tofu.lib.ucdavis.edu> Message-ID: <4AAA629C.5030700@gmail.com> On 09/10/2009 04:49 PM, Dale Bewley wrote: > On Wed, 2009-09-09 at 21:27 -0400, John J. McDonough wrote: >> 00:15:27 Example tables/index in >> http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha > > I'm really not crazy about the huge inline tables, and I'm dubious about > their usefulness. Scrolling quickly through, it makes it very difficult > to pick out any text and headings. I suppose when more text is added > that is less of an issue. > > It seems to me that something this exhaustive should be a link to a > report in the packagedb. > > The format of this report is less useful than yours is though. Links > back to the upstream page are very nice. This also doesn't compare to > the previous release. > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/collections/id/21?_csrf_token=3e859ab8f97e04a2a0de070e8253a445496b8f57 > > How did you generate that information? Can that code we placed into the > pkgdb app? > About getting this into the pkgdb, we should have the capability to do things like this in the next release but we haven't been planning a page quite like it. If someone wants to talk to mbacovsk and maploin about what the purpose is and what hte requirements are, they can see about adding it to the UI. -Toshio -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From marwalk at marwalk.com Mon Sep 14 22:34:19 2009 From: marwalk at marwalk.com (marwalk at marwalk.com) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 15:34:19 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction of Mark Walker Message-ID: <20090914153419.6c3e5ea959f65f906c27be4d32d2c6f5.acf307112f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Mon Sep 14 23:55:51 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 14 Sep 2009 16:55:51 -0700 Subject: Fedora 12 Documentation Schedule Reminder Message-ID: <4AAED807.3030605@redhat.com> Name Start End Wiki Freeze: Beta Release Notes Tue 2009-09-15 Tue 2009-09-15 String Freeze: release-notes.rpm Wed 2009-09-16 Wed 2009-09-16 Import publican to fedorahosted.org/release-notes.rpm Wed 2009-09-16 Thu 2009-09-17 Remind new guide owners SRPM package review Thu 2009-09-17 Thu 2009-09-17 Reminder to Trans that POTs coming and how many Tue 2009-09-22 Tue 2009-09-22 Ongoing build translation review htmls Wed 2009-09-23 Mon 2009-10-05 Final (Beta) Freeze: Development Code Complete Tue 2009-09-29 Tue 2009-09-29 String Freeze: All Docs Guides Tue 2009-09-29 Tue 2009-09-29 Post Draft Guides to docs.fedoraproject.org Tue 2009-09-29 Wed 2009-09-30 Build Draft Docs Guides RPMs Tue 2009-09-29 Wed 2009-09-30 Create Draft POT files for All Guides Tue 2009-09-29 Wed 2009-09-30 From stickster at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 11:59:54 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 07:59:54 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction of Mark Walker In-Reply-To: <20090914153419.6c3e5ea959f65f906c27be4d32d2c6f5.acf307112f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20090914153419.6c3e5ea959f65f906c27be4d32d2c6f5.acf307112f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <20090915115954.GB31932@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 03:34:19PM -0700, marwalk at marwalk.com wrote: > One other thing about me that might be of interest is I'm also known as > "Santa Claus."? I like to say that the white beard is real and so is the > jolliness, but I wear the red suit only on special occasions anymore. I'm fortunate that Mark happens to be in my local LUG and I can confirm that he is, in fact, a right jolly old elf. (Sorry Mark.) Seriously, Mark's a wonderful guy and I welcome him to Fedora and to the Docs team. OK folks, let's find him something interesting to help with! Mark, you might want to come by IRC Freenode on #fedora-docs on Wednesday at 8:00pm Eastern, when the Docs team has its normal meeting. There you can say hi, ask questions, and get involved in what's shaking. With a release coming up I suspect the team is going to need a few extra people to help, and even if you feel like you need some seasoning, you can look on and learn if nothing else. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Sep 15 13:42:43 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 09:42:43 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction of Mark Walker In-Reply-To: <20090914153419.6c3e5ea959f65f906c27be4d32d2c6f5.acf307112f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20090914153419.6c3e5ea959f65f906c27be4d32d2c6f5.acf307112f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 18:34, wrote: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.8) iEYEARECAAYFAkqvmd8ACgkQfQTSQL0MFMGm6ACfawiSyu/NAgWTn0vS8i6o3gB5 trUAnj2jlITStLPX5axcZd+9Q79ymTyL =O64h -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > ? > Thank you for the opportunity to introduce myself.? I Googled the name "Mark > Walker" and about 22,600,000 hits were returned; none of them me in the > first few pages. I then Googled the name "Mark Caldwell Walker" and about > 168,000 hits were returned; all of them me in the first few pages. > > As one of those "older guys" my curriculum vitae might not be the best > approach for an introduction, but I will point out that I've had plenty of > chances to make mistakes and to learn from them.? I do love to learn, and > that's one of the reasons I'm here.? I am here also in search of new > challenges, new ways to produce meaningful results that actually help > people, and along with that genuine personal fulfillment.? That might seem a > little demanding, especially from someone who's not yet retired from his day > job and therefore has only nights and weekends to offer for now.? But I > sense that the time is right for me to venture into these areas where I've > only been lurking in listservs for far too long. > > My writing projects include the three science fiction novels that appear in > the Google search returns mentioned above.? My professional writing includes > some newspaper writing in my younger years, which naturally followed my BA > in Journalism.? I've since written some professional documents for previous > employers, which were in the telecommunications and computer project > management fields and briefed them to executive management. > > My other degree is an MS in Management.? That's not very computer related on > the surface, but I've also been a licensed radio amateur since 1967 > (although I'm "rare DX") and my first home computer was a Commodore 64.? I'm > not a programmer, but I've played with FORTRAN, Basic, Pascal, C++, Visual > Basic, Java, and Bash scripting. Certs include A+ and Network+, and I've > been studying up on Security+ and Certified Ethical Hacker.? In the past few > years I've been researching XML, and think I could produce DocBook products > based on the v5 RELAXNG schema. > > I also have a radio broadcasting background that spans about 9 commercial > stations.? This was on-air experience; yes, I was your friendly local radio > DJ. My production of the FredPod podcast (feel free to Google it) is my > effort to enjoy broadcasting activities that take advantage of the > people-empowering trends in this field. I've been attempting to get the open > source Rivendell application running, but so far that remains a work in > progress. > > One other thing about me that might be of interest is I'm also known as > "Santa Claus."? I like to say that the white beard is real and so is the > jolliness, but I wear the red suit only on special occasions anymore. > > Pleased to meet you, > Mark > > gpg --fingerprint AA482E46 > pub?? 1024D/AA482E46 2006-07-06 [expires: 2011-07-05] > ????? Key fingerprint = D780 2F66 B08D 739D 3BF0? 2468 7C22 870D AA48 2E46 > uid????????????????? Mark Walker (marwalk.net) > uid????????????????? Mark Walker (alternate address) > uid????????????????? Mark Caldwell Walker (Earth Alien) > > sub?? 2048g/4421C0B1 2006-07-06 [expires: 2011-07-05] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkquwVIACgkQfCKHDapILkZTMQCghYPbrypxWZxGeOf96MzzsChg > WH4AoOXk3ZGsxxts7KO2z0OevASj5RL0 > =Z+Lf > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- Welcome aboard, Mark! Nice to have another ham among us (do we have a majority yet?). Please do join us on Wednesday evening and we'll get you hooked up with a mentor to point you in what we hope is the proper direction. --Eric From irashadul at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 14:48:55 2009 From: irashadul at gmail.com (Rashadul Islam) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 10:48:55 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction of Mark Walker In-Reply-To: References: <20090914153419.6c3e5ea959f65f906c27be4d32d2c6f5.acf307112f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <17fa59580909150748p337758b9qfa7e28ab5a55e9bd@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 9:42 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 18:34, wrote: > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.8) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkqvmd8ACgkQfQTSQL0MFMGm6ACfawiSyu/NAgWTn0vS8i6o3gB5 > trUAnj2jlITStLPX5axcZd+9Q79ymTyL > =O64h > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > ? > > Thank you for the opportunity to introduce myself. I Googled the name > "Mark > > Walker" and about 22,600,000 hits were returned; none of them me in the > > first few pages. I then Googled the name "Mark Caldwell Walker" and about > > 168,000 hits were returned; all of them me in the first few pages. > > > > As one of those "older guys" my curriculum vitae might not be the best > > approach for an introduction, but I will point out that I've had plenty > of > > chances to make mistakes and to learn from them. I do love to learn, and > > that's one of the reasons I'm here. I am here also in search of new > > challenges, new ways to produce meaningful results that actually help > > people, and along with that genuine personal fulfillment. That might > seem a > > little demanding, especially from someone who's not yet retired from his > day > > job and therefore has only nights and weekends to offer for now. But I > > sense that the time is right for me to venture into these areas where > I've > > only been lurking in listservs for far too long. > > > > My writing projects include the three science fiction novels that appear > in > > the Google search returns mentioned above. My professional writing > includes > > some newspaper writing in my younger years, which naturally followed my > BA > > in Journalism. I've since written some professional documents for > previous > > employers, which were in the telecommunications and computer project > > management fields and briefed them to executive management. > > > > My other degree is an MS in Management. That's not very computer related > on > > the surface, but I've also been a licensed radio amateur since 1967 > > (although I'm "rare DX") and my first home computer was a Commodore 64. > I'm > > not a programmer, but I've played with FORTRAN, Basic, Pascal, C++, > Visual > > Basic, Java, and Bash scripting. Certs include A+ and Network+, and I've > > been studying up on Security+ and Certified Ethical Hacker. In the past > few > > years I've been researching XML, and think I could produce DocBook > products > > based on the v5 RELAXNG schema. > > > > I also have a radio broadcasting background that spans about 9 commercial > > stations. This was on-air experience; yes, I was your friendly local > radio > > DJ. My production of the FredPod podcast (feel free to Google it) is my > > effort to enjoy broadcasting activities that take advantage of the > > people-empowering trends in this field. I've been attempting to get the > open > > source Rivendell application running, but so far that remains a work in > > progress. > > > > One other thing about me that might be of interest is I'm also known as > > "Santa Claus." I like to say that the white beard is real and so is the > > jolliness, but I wear the red suit only on special occasions anymore. > > > > Pleased to meet you, > > Mark > > > > gpg --fingerprint AA482E46 > > pub 1024D/AA482E46 2006-07-06 [expires: 2011-07-05] > > Key fingerprint = D780 2F66 B08D 739D 3BF0 2468 7C22 870D AA48 > 2E46 > > uid Mark Walker (marwalk.net) > > uid Mark Walker (alternate address) > > uid Mark Caldwell Walker (Earth Alien) > > > > sub 2048g/4421C0B1 2006-07-06 [expires: 2011-07-05] > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > > > iEYEARECAAYFAkquwVIACgkQfCKHDapILkZTMQCghYPbrypxWZxGeOf96MzzsChg > > WH4AoOXk3ZGsxxts7KO2z0OevASj5RL0 > > =Z+Lf > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Welcome aboard, Mark! Nice to have another ham among us (do we have a > majority yet?). > > Please do join us on Wednesday evening and we'll get you hooked up > with a mentor to point you in what we hope is the proper direction. > > --Eric > > Mark, welcome aboard! --Rashadul GPG KEY: 5557BFAC Fingerprint=CFB7 CAEC 157A 308A F9CE CE00 3620 8084 5557 BFAC -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From dhensley at redhat.com Tue Sep 15 18:26:05 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 20:26:05 +0200 Subject: Self-Introduction of Mark Walker In-Reply-To: <20090914153419.6c3e5ea959f65f906c27be4d32d2c6f5.acf307112f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> References: <20090914153419.6c3e5ea959f65f906c27be4d32d2c6f5.acf307112f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <4AAFDC3D.8050603@redhat.com> Welcome Mark! Paul is right that we are looking for more contributors, and now is a good time. I am spearheading a project to update the Deployment Guide for Fedora 12, which is a book that might interest you. We are definitely looking for good writers with networking experience; the guide's second major part contains chapters on Network Interfaces, Network Configuration, Service Access, OpenSSH, Samba, DHCP (Servers), Apache, FTP, Email, and LDAP. The online copy lives here: http://dsilas.fedorapeople.org/Deployment_Guide/en-US/html-single/ And the project page is here, along with a link to the mailing list: https://fedorahosted.org/deploymentguide/ It is not necessary to write in DocBook XML to contribute, though of course you would be welcome to. The Deployment Guide (and probably the other DocBook projects) currently adhere to DocBook 4.5, which is DTD-based instead of Relax NG-based (theoretically unfortunate, I agree, but turns out to matter little in practice). We use the Publican publishing tool to build the documentation (I am testing the much-faster Publican 1.0 beta for building the Deployment Guide, and it's working well so far): https://fedorahosted.org/publican/ If you have any questions or suggestions, please let us know! Hope to see you on IRC on Wednesday. Cheers, Silas On 09/15/2009 12:34 AM, marwalk at marwalk.com wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > ? > Thank you for the opportunity to introduce myself. I Googled the name > "Mark Walker" and about 22,600,000 hits were returned; none of them me > in the first few pages. I then Googled the name "Mark Caldwell Walker" > and about 168,000 hits were returned; all of them me in the first few > pages. > > As one of those "older guys" my curriculum vitae might not be the best > approach for an introduction, but I will point out that I've had plenty > of chances to make mistakes and to learn from them. I do love to learn, > and that's one of the reasons I'm here. I am here also in search of new > challenges, new ways to produce meaningful results that actually help > people, and along with that genuine personal fulfillment. That might > seem a little demanding, especially from someone who's not yet retired > from his day job and therefore has only nights and weekends to offer for > now. But I sense that the time is right for me to venture into these > areas where I've only been lurking in listservs for far too long. > > My writing projects include the three science fiction novels that appear > in the Google search returns mentioned above. My professional writing > includes some newspaper writing in my younger years, which naturally > followed my BA in Journalism. I've since written some professional > documents for previous employers, which were in the telecommunications > and computer project management fields and briefed them to executive > management. > > My other degree is an MS in Management. That's not very computer related > on the surface, but I've also been a licensed radio amateur since 1967 > (although I'm "rare DX") and my first home computer was a Commodore 64. > I'm not a programmer, but I've played with FORTRAN, Basic, Pascal, C++, > Visual Basic, Java, and Bash scripting. Certs include A+ and Network+, > and I've been studying up on Security+ and Certified Ethical Hacker. In > the past few years I've been researching XML, and think I could produce > DocBook products based on the v5 RELAXNG schema. > > I also have a radio broadcasting background that spans about 9 > commercial stations. This was on-air experience; yes, I was your > friendly local radio DJ. My production of the FredPod podcast (feel free > to Google it) is my effort to enjoy broadcasting activities that take > advantage of the people-empowering trends in this field. I've been > attempting to get the open source Rivendell application running, but so > far that remains a work in progress. > > One other thing about me that might be of interest is I'm also known as > "Santa Claus." I like to say that the white beard is real and so is the > jolliness, but I wear the red suit only on special occasions anymore. > > Pleased to meet you, > Mark > > gpg --fingerprint AA482E46 > pub 1024D/AA482E46 2006-07-06 [expires: 2011-07-05] > Key fingerprint = D780 2F66 B08D 739D 3BF0 2468 7C22 870D AA48 2E46 > uid Mark Walker (marwalk.net) > uid Mark Walker (alternate address) > uid Mark Caldwell Walker (Earth Alien) > sub 2048g/4421C0B1 2006-07-06 [expires: 2011-07-05] > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) > > iEYEARECAAYFAkquwVIACgkQfCKHDapILkZTMQCghYPbrypxWZxGeOf96MzzsChg > WH4AoOXk3ZGsxxts7KO2z0OevASj5RL0 > =Z+Lf > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From stickster at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 21:14:58 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:14:58 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Documentation Schedule Reminder In-Reply-To: <4AAED807.3030605@redhat.com> References: <4AAED807.3030605@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090915211458.GY31932@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 04:55:51PM -0700, John Poelstra wrote: > Name Start End > > Wiki Freeze: Beta Release Notes Tue 2009-09-15 Tue > 2009-09-15 > String Freeze: release-notes.rpm Wed 2009-09-16 Wed > 2009-09-16 > Import publican to fedorahosted.org/release-notes.rpm Wed 2009-09-16 Thu > 2009-09-17 > Remind new guide owners SRPM package review Thu 2009-09-17 Thu > 2009-09-17 > Reminder to Trans that POTs coming and how many Tue 2009-09-22 Tue > 2009-09-22 > Ongoing build translation review htmls Wed 2009-09-23 Mon > 2009-10-05 > Final (Beta) Freeze: Development Code Complete Tue 2009-09-29 Tue > 2009-09-29 > String Freeze: All Docs Guides Tue 2009-09-29 Tue > 2009-09-29 > Post Draft Guides to docs.fedoraproject.org Tue 2009-09-29 Wed > 2009-09-30 > Build Draft Docs Guides RPMs Tue 2009-09-29 Wed > 2009-09-30 > Create Draft POT files for All Guides Tue 2009-09-29 Wed > 2009-09-30 Eric, JJMCD, Rudi, et al., What's your sense of how we're doing against the release schedule? Are we producing what's needed for the F12 Beta release, which is the last test release before the F12 final/GA? Paul From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Tue Sep 15 23:32:01 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 04:32:01 +0500 Subject: SFD Presentation Message-ID: <78323d480909151632x68405f54kc4c824e2c311f8d7@mail.gmail.com> I have put up my beamer presentation 'The Fedora Project' on Software Freedom Day, Kolkata' 2009 at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Presentations I will write the event report later. http://softwarefreedomday.org/teams/asiaandmiddleeast/india/ILUG-CALINFO Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From mark at marwalk.net Tue Sep 15 23:41:32 2009 From: mark at marwalk.net (Mark Walker) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 19:41:32 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction of Mark Walker In-Reply-To: <20090915160058.C35F561A264@hormel.redhat.com> References: <20090915160058.C35F561A264@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AB0262C.6000501@marwalk.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thanks Paul, and in the spirit of FOSS the jolliness is free of charge. ;-) And 73s Eric. I've seen some hamming apps in yum and elsewhere, and that's good to see. I have applied to join the Docs Project contributor group (docs) in the Fedora Accounts System, and received a welcome message in reply. Also, I've added the #fedora-docs channel to my IRC client on my Fedora 11 x86_64 box. I will be away from the house tomorrow evening, but will make every effort to join the Wednesday online meeting. It is now on my calendar as a repeat event. Whether or not I'm seasoned, it appears that 'tis the season for starting on Docs. Thanks, Mark - -- Mark Caldwell Walker GnuPG public key is available at http://www.earthalien.com/#pubkey Home page at http://www.marwalk.com/ Blog at http://marwalk.wordpress.com/ Twitter: marwalk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqwJigACgkQfCKHDapILkZpoACghXcQB1GrNRQvFIAU5DH2YoEc YgEAnRkHyv0w7ddChrlzOJs41ajaFQ6d =K3Tk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From kwade at redhat.com Wed Sep 16 00:59:56 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 17:59:56 -0700 Subject: Self-Introduction of Mark Walker In-Reply-To: References: <20090914153419.6c3e5ea959f65f906c27be4d32d2c6f5.acf307112f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> Message-ID: <20090916005956.GD7684@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 09:42:43AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > Nice to have another ham among us (do we have a > majority yet?). Clearly yes. ;-) Mark, I'm a West Coast contigent so caught your 'docs' team request. Whenever I can make good on sponsoring/mentoring, I'm 'quaid' on #fedora-docs. Welcome! ... and happy bit smashing. cheers - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From mark at marwalk.net Wed Sep 16 01:31:28 2009 From: mark at marwalk.net (Mark Walker) Date: Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:31:28 -0400 Subject: Self-Introduction of Mark Walker In-Reply-To: <20090916005956.GD7684@calliope.phig.org> References: <20090914153419.6c3e5ea959f65f906c27be4d32d2c6f5.acf307112f.wbe@email.secureserver.net> <20090916005956.GD7684@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4AB03FF0.7090902@marwalk.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thanks, Karsten. I'm 'marwalk' on IRC. Mark Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 09:42:43AM -0400, Eric Christensen wrote: > >> Nice to have another ham among us (do we have a >> majority yet?). > > Clearly yes. ;-) > > Mark, I'm a West Coast contigent so caught your 'docs' team request. > Whenever I can make good on sponsoring/mentoring, I'm 'quaid' on > #fedora-docs. Welcome! ... and happy bit smashing. > > cheers - Karsten > - -- Mark Caldwell Walker GnuPG public key is available at http://www.earthalien.com/#pubkey Home page at http://www.marwalk.com/ Blog at http://marwalk.wordpress.com/ Twitter: marwalk -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iEYEARECAAYFAkqwP+0ACgkQfCKHDapILkZLNACg67gsEJHrmAIPo/H2LFRbJUhk gcwAn0lDvjIHpZSalD43A7q7/f/Gokw/ =6Iaf -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Sep 16 06:58:56 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:58:56 +1000 Subject: Fedora 12 Documentation Schedule Reminder In-Reply-To: <20090915211458.GY31932@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AAED807.3030605@redhat.com> <20090915211458.GY31932@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4AB08CB0.4090604@redhat.com> On 09/16/2009 07:14 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Eric, JJMCD, Rudi, et al., > > What's your sense of how we're doing against the release schedule? > Release Notes are all but ready -- just waiting on a couple of beats. I'm not anticipating any problems having the Installation Quick Start Guide and Installation Guide ready for translation by the 29th; I can also make sure that the "minor" docs are re-versioned and ready by then. The XML skeleton for the restructured User Guide is sitting in a separate "devel" branch, meaning that if we can't get enough content into it for the 29th, we can still update and reuse the F11 version for F12. Cheers Rudi From stickster at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 13:09:04 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 09:09:04 -0400 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Why can't submit translations for F12 Release Notes?] Message-ID: <20090916130904.GF18731@localhost.localdomain> This thread from the fedora-trans-list is of interest to Docs people working on the release notes. As a reminder, any people in Docs responsible for major works like the Release Notes, Installation Guide or QSG, etc., should be subscribed to the fedora-trans-list as well, since frequently questions are raised there about process or specific strings. Docs people responsible for that content should be communicating schedule details, expectations, and so forth, regularly to the Translation teams through the fedora-trans-list. That will help all the teams stay connected and working together with less confusion and friction. https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2009-September/msg00083.html https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2009-September/msg00086.html https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2009-September/msg00092.html Paul ----- Forwarded message from Tomek Chrzczonowicz ----- Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:27:54 +0200 From: Tomek Chrzczonowicz To: Fedora Translation Project List Subject: Re: Why can't submit translations for F12 Release Notes? Does anyone know what's going on with those F12 Release Notes? The translation deadline is tomorrow...? ----- End forwarded message ----- From eric at christensenplace.us Wed Sep 16 14:07:44 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 10:07:44 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Meeting Reminder Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 REMINDER: There will be a Fedora Docs meeting today at 0001 UTC. The agenda can be found at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings. If you have any additions to the agenda please make them prior to 2330 UTC. Thanks, Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.8) iEYEARECAAYFAkqw8TwACgkQfQTSQL0MFMEhnQCfUc64UfPaARDskcGj5MyMH0Nj KJYAn2h/fYgRbXVAWb02ZRRASiHavEZD =Or17 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From chrzczonowicz at gmail.com Wed Sep 16 14:56:10 2009 From: chrzczonowicz at gmail.com (Tomek Chrzczonowicz) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 16:56:10 +0200 Subject: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order Message-ID: <1253112970.6701.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello everyone in the Docs Team, I know it's kind of late for translating F11 Installation Guide, but I thought what I have to communicate here might be important, especially if it can help prevent the same thing happening with F12 Installation Guide. Namely, the order of strings in .pot files (translation templates) doesn't match the one in the source text. And translating strings that are out of order - and, thus, out of context, is slow, painful and/or prone to mistakes. Can you please fix this? Regards, Tomek Chrzczonowicz Polish L10n Team P.S. Should I file a bug? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: To jest cz??? wiadomo?ci podpisana cyfrowo URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Sep 16 15:34:26 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:34:26 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order References: <1253112970.6701.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomek Chrzczonowicz" To: Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:56 AM Subject: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order > the order of strings in .pot files (translation templates) > doesn't match the one in the source text The current version of Transifex requires us to jump through all sorts of hoops to create the pot files. It is unlikely that we can maintain the order, even if it were a permanent fix. The problem should be corrected with the updated tfx. We had hoped to see the updated version in time for F12 but I guess that isn't going to happen. --McD From wb8rcr at arrl.net Wed Sep 16 15:35:33 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 11:35:33 -0400 Subject: Why can't submit translations for F12 Release Notes?] References: <20090916130904.GF18731@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: "Fedora Documentation Project" Cc: "Fedora Translation Project" Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 9:09 AM Subject: [Fwd: Re: Why can't submit translations for F12 Release Notes?] > This thread from the fedora-trans-list is of interest to Docs people > working on the release notes. > > As a reminder, any people in Docs responsible for major works like the > Release Notes, Installation Guide or QSG, etc., should be subscribed > to the fedora-trans-list as well, since frequently questions are > raised there about process or specific strings. I think we all do. The problem is that, since we're behind, we are heads-down trying to catch up, and not paying close attention to the lists. --McD From r.landmann at redhat.com Wed Sep 16 23:54:50 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:54:50 +1000 Subject: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order In-Reply-To: References: <1253112970.6701.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4AB17ACA.4000001@redhat.com> On 09/17/2009 01:34 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomek Chrzczonowicz" > > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 10:56 AM > Subject: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order >> the order of strings in .pot files (translation templates) >> doesn't match the one in the source text > The current version of Transifex requires us to jump through all sorts > of hoops to create the pot files. It is unlikely that we can maintain > the order, even if it were a permanent fix. The problem should be > corrected with the updated tfx. We had hoped to see the updated > version in time for F12 but I guess that isn't going to happen. Hi Tomek, What John says is correct, but I'll try to explain with slightly more detail. (I'll explain from first principles, so please be patient if you already know some of this!) All of our longer texts are made up of multiple XML files. This makes them easier to write and to maintain, especially when more than one person works together on a text. In the case of the Installation Guide, this amounts to around 700 separate files.[1] Our publication tool, Publican,[2] then transforms each of these XML files into a POT file, and then into PO files for each language. The order of the strings in the POT files and PO files matches the order of the strings in the original English XML files. You can see Publican's set of POT files for the Installation Guide here [3] and Publican's set of Polish PO files here [4]. Normally, these files are what translators of Publican documents should be working with. However, the version of Transifex in Fedora (version 0.5) does not support more than *one* POT file for the document, and *one* PO file per language. To work around this limitation, we have used msgcat[5] to merge all the POT files into one giant POT file (nearly 4,000 strings!) and merge all the PO files for each language into one giant PO file for each language. Msgcat groups the strings from the individual POT/PO files primarily in *alphabetical order of the name of the original POT/PO file* (which of course, is the same as the name of the XML file from which each POT/PO file was generated originally). This is why you are seeing strings in an order different from how they appear in the published book. However, /within/ each of those groups, the strings do actually occur in the same order as they do in the source text. To finish the story, once translators have finished their work, we must then split up the giant PO files into the individual, small PO files again so that we can publish the translated book. Unfortunately, the whole process is not 100% reliable, and occasionally, a few translated strings get lost in the process of merging all the PO files together and splitting them apart again. Sometime after the release of Fedora 12, the Fedora Project is due to upgrade to Transifex 0.7. This supports multiple POT files and multiple PO files per language, meaning that translators will have access to the PO files generated by Publican itself. Note that this doesn't completely solve your problem if you want to work on a book in exactly the same order as the text will appear in the finished book, because if you want to work that way, you will need to identify which of the 700 PO files contains the text that you want to work on. The easiest solution would be to grep through the directory until you find the file that you want (this is also how we writers find sections that we need to correct or update). Of course, you can also use Gtranslator or Lokalize to search for the string in the huge PO files that we have now. Hope this helps, and as always, thank you! for the hard work and dedication that you put into translating our docs. Cheers Ruediger [1] http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/install-guide.git?p=docs/install-guide.git;a=tree;f=en-US;hb=HEAD [2] https://fedorahosted.org/publican/ [3] http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/install-guide.git?p=docs/install-guide.git;a=tree;f=pot;hb=HEAD [4] http://git.fedorahosted.org/git/docs/install-guide.git?p=docs/install-guide.git;a=tree;f=pl;hb=HEAD [5] http://www.gnu.org/software/hello/manual/gettext/msgcat-Invocation.html From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 00:07:03 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 05:37:03 +0530 Subject: Software and Bugs Message-ID: <78323d480909161707g7b7f20bdjc4d9cdc65abad83f@mail.gmail.com> See https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=522961 "The statement "No software is without bugs." is located under section "1.4 Common Bugs" " in Fedora 11 release notes. I agree that it is wrong to claim that 'all s/w is buggy'. What is your opinion? Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From dhensley at redhat.com Thu Sep 17 00:40:45 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 02:40:45 +0200 Subject: 1st Draft: Package Management with RPM Update Message-ID: <4AB1858D.10609@redhat.com> The first draft of the Package Management with RPM chapter is complete and ready to be reviewed here: http://dsilas.fedorapeople.org/Deployment_Guide/en-US/html-single/#ch-rpm All comments/notes/suggestions welcome! I've got a rough draft of the PackageKit (Graphical Package Management) chapter (will capture better screens tomorrow) and a start on the YUM chapter, and hope to have first drafts of those ready to review tomorrow. That will complete the update for Part I of the Deployment Guide. In addition, I've received lots of material to incorporate into the Automated Tasks chapter of the Deployment Guide, which details cronie (i.e. anacron). Also, the BIND chapters have a technical reviewer and the update is under way. More details tomorrow. Cheers, -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. From bruno at wolff.to Thu Sep 17 01:22:55 2009 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Wed, 16 Sep 2009 20:22:55 -0500 Subject: Software and Bugs In-Reply-To: <78323d480909161707g7b7f20bdjc4d9cdc65abad83f@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480909161707g7b7f20bdjc4d9cdc65abad83f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20090917012255.GB5685@wolff.to> On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 05:37:03 +0530, Mani A wrote: > See https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=522961 > > "The statement "No software is without bugs." is located under section "1.4 > Common Bugs" " in Fedora 11 release notes. > > I agree that it is wrong to claim that 'all s/w is buggy'. > > What is your opinion? I doubt any of the software included in Fedora get's formal verification, so that any single package in Fedora is very likely to have at least one bug. The claim seems a bit strong when applied to a group of thousands of programs. From chrzczonowicz at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 07:16:34 2009 From: chrzczonowicz at gmail.com (Tomek Chrzczonowicz) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:16:34 +0200 Subject: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order In-Reply-To: <4AB17ACA.4000001@redhat.com> References: <1253112970.6701.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4AB17ACA.4000001@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1253171794.2552.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> > What John says is correct, but I'll try to explain with slightly more > detail. (I'll explain from first principles, so please be patient if > you already know some of this!) Actually, I'm fairly new to L10n and haven't used Publican yet, so all this is new to me. Thanks! Given that, I might be missing something important, but... The docs, for the most part, seem have a clear structure, like: The installation process - part 6. Beginning the Installation - chapter 6.1. The Boot Menu - section So...why not come up with a file-naming scheme based on that? Then people would have both the XML and .pot files ordered the way the Documents are structured, no? It seems to me that would to solve the problems you mentioned... Off the top of my head, the only obvious problem with such a file-naming scheme itself would be incorporating the parts "Preface" and "Introduction". Of course, I don't mean that the filenames would consist of numbers only. Only that there would be numbers at the beginning of the filename for easier searching, sorting and so on... What do you think? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: To jest cz??? wiadomo?ci podpisana cyfrowo URL: From chrzczonowicz at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 07:30:11 2009 From: chrzczonowicz at gmail.com (Tomek Chrzczonowicz) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 09:30:11 +0200 Subject: Software and Bugs In-Reply-To: <20090917012255.GB5685@wolff.to> References: <78323d480909161707g7b7f20bdjc4d9cdc65abad83f@mail.gmail.com> <20090917012255.GB5685@wolff.to> Message-ID: <1253172611.2552.70.camel@localhost.localdomain> Dnia 2009-09-16, ?ro o godzinie 20:22 -0500, Bruno Wolff III pisze: > On Thu, Sep 17, 2009 at 05:37:03 +0530, > Mani A wrote: > > See https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=522961 > > > > "The statement "No software is without bugs." is located under section "1.4 > > Common Bugs" " in Fedora 11 release notes. > > > > I agree that it is wrong to claim that 'all s/w is buggy'. > > Can I chime in? How about something along the lines of: "No software can be guaranteed to have no _potential_ bugs" or "No software can be guaranteed to be free of (potential) defects" -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: To jest cz??? wiadomo?ci podpisana cyfrowo URL: From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Sep 17 11:38:56 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 07:38:56 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order References: <1253112970.6701.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4AB17ACA.4000001@redhat.com> <1253171794.2552.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomek Chrzczonowicz" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 3:16 AM Subject: Re: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order > The docs, for the most part, seem have a clear structure, like: > > The installation process - part > 6. Beginning the Installation - chapter > 6.1. The Boot Menu - section > > So...why not come up with a file-naming scheme based on that? In fact, the files have normal English-sounding names and the initial .pot files share those names. Generally, the names are something close to the section names. Over time, though, authors may tweak section names, and generally people want somewhat shorter file names, so the title and the file name probably don't match 100%, but in general, they are close. Adding section numbers does get to be a problem, though. As the document develops, sections get added and rearranged and having file names incorporate section names gets to be something of a maintenance problem, especially since each file's base name tends to show up in dozens of places. --McD From chrzczonowicz at gmail.com Thu Sep 17 15:25:54 2009 From: chrzczonowicz at gmail.com (Tomek Chrzczonowicz) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 17:25:54 +0200 Subject: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order In-Reply-To: References: <1253112970.6701.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4AB17ACA.4000001@redhat.com> <1253171794.2552.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1253201154.3288.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> > Adding section numbers does get to be a problem, though. As the document > develops, sections get added and rearranged and having file names > incorporate section names gets to be something of a maintenance problem, > especially since each file's base name tends to show up in dozens of places. Doesn't Publican take care of this? Do you name all of them by hand? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: To jest cz??? wiadomo?ci podpisana cyfrowo URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Sep 17 15:51:23 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:51:23 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-09-17 IRC log Message-ID: 00:02:29 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:02:29 Meeting started Thu Sep 17 00:02:29 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:02:29 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:02:39 #topic Roll Call 00:02:42 * Sparks 00:02:54 * stickster 00:02:56 * jjmcd is here 00:03:03 * joat . 00:03:08 * rudi is here 00:03:48 Sparks: Should the schedule tasks be on the agenda too? 00:04:05 * danielsmw 00:04:13 http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html 00:04:22 stickster: Probably 00:04:30 We'll shoe horn it in 00:04:44 I'd recommend that be there on a regular basis, just to avoid any sudden screechy left-hand turns 00:04:51 Yeah 00:04:55 Even if the kids in the back think it's fun 00:05:08 Trubble is, we're already in that state 00:05:23 Okay, let's get going! 00:05:25 * Tsagadai is here but late :) 00:05:32 #topic Last week's action items 00:05:50 quaid to follow up with Mizmo on the Zikula theme 00:05:55 quaid: You here tonight? 00:06:14 Sparks: I can fill in here 00:06:21 stickster: go! 00:06:25 mizmo worked for many hours the other night on Zikula theme 00:06:51 But there is some very significant broken stuff in Zikula itself that made the work slow, frustrating, and ultimately unfinished 00:07:21 mizmo has to punt for now because the web design is higher priority and there's too much Zikula architecture stuff to figure out for her to progress as fast as she's used to doing with other frameworks 00:07:47 eof 00:08:02 * jjmcd thinks that after we come up for air we need to work on zik dox 00:08:34 stickster: So do we need to find someone else to work on the skins? 00:08:47 Sparks: mchua is going to do that 00:09:06 Okay... Good to know. 00:09:11 jjmcd: zik dox? 00:09:28 * stickster is a little disappointed at Zikula progress -- not because people didn't put forth superhuman effort, because they *did* 00:09:28 My exploration of zikula was hampered by horrible dox 00:09:34 lots of them, all useless 00:09:39 More because there's so many broken pieces when you dig inside. 00:09:47 jjmcd: Yeah 00:09:53 stickster: I agree 00:10:14 There were a lot of people that put a lot of work into it and found it "not as advertised" 00:10:16 It makes me want to get further information on (1) how we decided on it, and (2) re-evaluate that process so that we can learn from the experience 00:10:20 But moreover 00:10:25 I think having itbegins around has been helpful 00:10:33 * mchua here 00:10:35 And I want to make sure that what we're learning is being fed back to the Zikula community for action 00:10:36 * mchua reads backlog 00:10:57 mchua: No biggie, just letting Sparks know that you are going to be on the lookout for more theming help for Zikula 00:11:05 stickster, that's why I say, once we get capacity free, we ought to help them out, too 00:11:27 jjmcd: A significant portion of the problem may be issues we can't solve, though -- like architectural issues, according to mizmo 00:11:35 since they helped us 00:11:45 stickster: Yeah, we've received a lot of support... but we had to re-engineer so much... 00:11:46 I have no idea myself, not sure I'd know from looking at it anyway :-) 00:11:47 itbegins and mizmo have cleared their plates completely of FI items, so itbegins can help more people do FI stuff instead of doing tons of it himself 00:11:58 Oh yeah, we need to give them guidance, but without simon, would you have gotten off the ground? 00:12:12 Not sure. 00:12:24 Anyway, don't let me derail your agenda Sparks, I think we answered the status bit 00:12:53 All the remaining FI work is listed in https://fedorahosted.org/marketing-team/query?status=new&status=assigned&status=reopened&component=Fedora+Insight&order=priority in a manner that is pick-uppable by passers-by. We're trying to doc everything as we go along so future zikula deployments will be smoother. 00:13:05 but yeah, there have been a lot of hacks as we approach the endgame. 00:13:20 mchua: Not to mention the hacking we did in the startgame too :-) 00:13:24 ...that too, yeah. 00:13:33 Okay... we'll get more into Zikula in a bit.. 00:13:35 moving on 00:13:38 quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. 00:14:00 Anyone know about the outcome of this? I feel we have revisited this more times than not. 00:14:33 Haven't heard anything new about it; don't know if quaid has broached the subject with Richard 00:14:45 So, AFAIK, Richard's previous advice stands 00:15:24 #action quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. 00:15:34 danielsmw to package an editor for Scribite 00:15:49 This didn't happen. Has anyone stepped up to do this? 00:16:13 Sparks: Here's my update. 00:16:31 I looked at using TinyMCE and worked at that spec file for a bit 00:16:56 I later consulted with abadger1999 and figured out that TinyMCE would be basically impossible to package without 4 or 5 other packages that are questionably packagable 00:17:05 oh, danielsmw IS here! Welcome! 00:17:11 Yes, I'm here. :) 00:17:20 * stickster shouts Howdy to danielsmw 00:17:31 danielsmw: So scratch TinyMCE 00:17:34 Anyway, we've picked up Xinha as our new option, as long as everyone's okay with that. 00:17:39 yes, scratch TinyMCE. 00:17:50 Xinha looks like it has compliant licenses 00:17:53 and is packagable. 00:17:57 danielsmw: I'm good with whatever works! 00:18:04 i'm almost done with the spec file, it's just complicated because of the lack of js guidelines. 00:18:19 but abadger1999 is helping with that and hopefully i'll have it up for review before next wednesday. 00:18:22 * ianweller is here now 00:18:31 abadger1999++ 00:18:34 Indeed 00:18:37 danielsmw++ 00:18:41 Excellent! 00:18:52 Okay... moving on... 00:18:54 ianweller to bring to the list the text for the CC license for the wiki so it can be approved 00:18:58 ianweller: Just in time! 00:19:41 ianweller: I think you did this already... didn't you? 00:20:13 which CC license? 00:20:24 CC-BY-SA 00:20:30 mmkay. 00:20:49 ianweller was here.... 00:20:57 We'll come back to him later... 00:21:01 hi 00:21:04 Sparks: he disappears when he wants to. 00:21:05 my internet is suck tonight 00:21:06 ianweller: hi 00:21:09 aaaagain 00:21:13 :-D 00:21:26 Sparks: all it needs to say is the message that "blah blah blah is licensed under blah blah blah" at the bottom of the page, just like every CC site 00:21:31 Sparks: unless you're looking for something different 00:22:58 i'm not sure if it's a good thing that my ISP's phone number is a busy signal right now ^_^ 00:23:01 Sparks: is that good? 00:23:13 ianweller: Works for me... 00:23:29 ok 00:23:42 Any other old business? 00:24:01 Publican update? 00:24:15 #topic Publican Update 00:24:18 rudi: Go for it! 00:24:48 * quaid is back 00:24:54 radsy, ryanlerch, and I are still waiting for sponsorship so that we can get Publican dependencies into Fedora 00:25:15 Once that's done, we can move ahead with both 1.0 and with the updated Fedora brand package. 00:25:16 ianweller: I think as the wiki czar, you're empowered to make the change, fwiw 00:25:32 So, any trusted packagers out there, we need you :) 00:25:43 ianweller: As long as we've notified people the change is coming, why, etc. 00:26:11 * perl-Locale-Maketext-Gettext-1.27-1.fc11.noarch.rpm ??? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521569 00:26:12 Bug 521569: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Locale-Maketext-Gettext - Joins the gettext and Maketext frameworks 00:26:13 * perl-Makefile-DOM-0.004-1.fc11.noarch.rpm ??? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521724 00:26:14 Bug 521724: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Makefile-DOM - Simple DOM parser for Makefiles 00:26:15 * perl-Makefile-Parser-0.211-1.fc11.noarch.rpm ??? https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=521723 00:26:15 Bug 521723: medium, medium, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: perl-Makefile-Parser - Simple parser for Makefiles 00:26:18 rudi: Okay. Do we need anyone to give a nudge to someone? 00:26:52 Well, unless we have any trusted packagers in the docs group, I'm open to suggestions... 00:27:13 This is the blocker right now for Publican 00:27:39 ianweller -- are you a trusted packager? 00:28:18 rudi: i guess 00:28:21 rudi: I don't think we have any trusted packagers in Docs. Heck, until a few months ago we didn't have packagers in Docs. 00:28:29 ianweller: Are you? 00:28:36 they trust me enough to sponsor people 00:28:47 Great! That's what we need :) 00:28:54 * ianweller trusts himself less than the community trusts him ;) 00:28:59 lolz 00:29:06 IMHO, that's always a good sign 00:30:22 Do you think you'll have the time to look at those in the near future>? 00:30:34 (and, of course, would you want to?) 00:31:42 rudi: Can you get with ianweller after the meeting, maybe? 00:31:49 NP 00:32:13 rudi: So basically after that you can support the fedora brand in Publican 00:32:29 Yep 00:32:36 Cool 00:32:41 Okay, moving on... 00:32:55 #topic Release notes format changes 00:33:12 #idea Put All Changes in a separate doc? 00:33:20 #idea Drop beats with few changes 00:33:21 Pretty much did them all except the separate doc ... moved them to the end 00:33:28 #idea Rearrange/add beats 00:33:37 I think we are ready to make pots. Still a couple of beats to touch up, but we should be at the 90% point. 00:33:39 jjmcd: Cool... 00:33:52 Many many thanks to rudi and Zach 00:33:59 So the RNs are on schedule? 00:34:03 L10N will love the 8000+ strings, but I think we'll hide that from them. 00:34:07 jjmcd -- so you're ready to pull the trigger now? :) 00:34:09 Sparks, no, not at all 00:34:16 rudi yeah 00:34:23 jjmcd: No? 00:34:24 Most recent build at http://jjmcd.fedorapeople.org/Download/f12alpha/index.html 00:34:41 Sparks, even after 900 cycles with john 00:34:45 Great -- I'll doctor up a POT file after the meeting :) 00:34:54 the wiki freeze came AFTER the pots in the schedule 00:35:09 We should have had pots last week 00:35:27 With luck, tomorrow. And yeah, htanks much rudi. I would appreciate that 00:35:52 Okay. Anything I can do to help? Do you need more resources? 00:36:14 Well, we should now be in good shape 00:36:25 Okay 00:36:28 Anything else? 00:36:29 THere are a couple of lame beats, but most of the changes were in virt 00:36:39 Also, I got surprised with a huge FEL document 00:36:50 I trimmed it way down, but it is still too large 00:37:03 Chitlesh has been working his butt off 00:37:23 But it is now under control 00:37:36 cool 00:37:40 anything/one else? 00:37:50 thats it from me 00:37:55 moving on... 00:37:57 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq 00:38:05 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:38:08 jjmcd: rudi: Thanks for your hard work 00:38:40 So Zikula has stalled on the runway... Are we now pushing this for f13 for sure? 00:39:10 I think we were clearly not making it for F12, but shortly thereafter 00:39:19 Okay 00:39:21 we'll be able to ride 80%+ on the Fedora Insight work going on 00:39:28 Assuming that proceeds well 00:39:31 skin, integration, etc. 00:39:34 WORKSFORME 00:39:51 stickster: well, that would only adjust my 80% down the scale some amount 00:39:54 I hope :) 00:40:04 I guess the question now is... do we want to try to work on the existing docs.fp.o to clean it up for F12? 00:40:22 * mchua wonders if Docs is interested in a zikula sprint for FUDCon as well 00:40:39 mchua: Which FUDCon? 00:40:42 f12 00:41:05 or perhaps a docs.fp.o cleanup 00:41:08 as a "Marketing got FI up, let's make our experience useful for Docs" thing infra-wise 00:41:40 and a "Docs is good at writing/workflows, Marketing can learn from Docs in getting an FI zikula workflow tweaked" thing as well, perhaps 00:42:00 mchua: I'm good with that 00:42:46 Ok. Who should I be coordinating with on that to see if it's a possibility then? Sparks, is that you? 00:42:56 mchua: Sure. 00:43:04 cool. action item me. ;) 00:43:08 mchua: Are we talking about the FUDCon in Toronto? 00:43:12 yup. 00:43:36 I think it's too cold for these southern boys 00:43:52 #action mchua to work with Sparks on an FAD for Zikula during FUDCon Toronto 00:43:58 jjmcd: It is concerning 00:45:10 Okay... anythign else? 00:45:24 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:45:32 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:46:04 I think we are waiting for the last minute request for quaid to talk to Richard about the CC logo on the wiki 00:46:21 otherwise our next step is to announce internally of the change 00:46:54 well ... 00:47:04 spot: ping 00:47:14 quaid: yes? 00:47:29 have you heard anything about discussions with Creative Commons 00:47:47 about using their logo on our websites? 00:47:55 i have not... should i have? 00:48:09 rfontana said he was going to pursue something with them perhaps. 00:48:22 send him an email and cc me 00:48:24 ok, not sure if you were in that loop or not, I reckon not 00:48:26 and i will stay on him 00:48:37 yeah, he said on list that he was going to look in to it, and I didn't want overly bug him :) 00:48:40 but I'll do that now 00:48:47 Sparks: k, we've reached 00:48:48 he tends to be busy 00:48:55 the time when i said I'd bug him if we hadn't gotten word 00:48:57 so I'll do that :) 00:48:57 i have regular meetings with him to make sure stuff doesn't get lost 00:49:13 For us to be happy to use the logo, CC would have to change *their* licensing... 00:49:16 He's a good mug and won't mind being bugged 00:49:35 I suspect that even if they agree in principle, it would take time for them to implement that change 00:49:37 rudi: well, or give us a specific exception that satisfied us, but ... 00:49:43 that might have the same effect :) 00:49:58 I think we should, as rudi is perhaps hinting 00:50:00 rudi: They wouldn't have to change their license. We could only use it on the wiki. 00:50:03 proceed as if we don't get the logos to use 00:50:19 Sparks -- ie, change their license 00:50:39 rudi: Well... yes, they'd have to change for us to use it on our docs 00:50:55 quaid -- that is indeed what I'm hinting :) 00:51:09 ya 00:51:26 Well, it really wouldn't be that big of a deal to go back and put the logo in on the wiki... 00:51:40 Exactly 00:51:46 So... all in favor of proceeding with just the text of the CC-BY-SA 00:51:49 +1 00:51:54 +1 00:52:07 +1 00:52:12 +1 00:52:12 +1 fwiw 00:52:30 +1 00:52:31 abstain 00:52:41 jjmcd: Is there a problem or??? 00:52:55 Nope, I see no prob either way 00:53:10 #agreed Proceed with CC licensing using only the text 00:53:20 quaid: Will you still follow up on the logo issue? 00:54:34 #action quaid to follow up on the CC logo issues 00:54:38 moving on! 00:54:47 #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:54:56 #link https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html 00:55:03 Does anyone have an update on this? 00:55:27 No progess since last week 00:55:33 rudi: Okay 00:55:41 not really an update as such but that may come up when I bring in a few things in a couple of weeks :) 00:55:41 rudi: Anything to talk about on this topic? 00:55:56 Tsagadai: Okay 00:56:13 there are 3 docs I have which I've scheduled to upstream as soon as I get a chance 00:56:36 Sparks -- I'm not sure what the last you heard was; I have a greenlight from legal to take most of our internal material upstream 00:56:47 rudi: I didn't know! Excellent 00:56:54 rudi: Just keep us updated. 00:57:17 So it now rests on time arising in my schedule, because legal will need to greenlight the final subset I pull out to use 00:57:43 Okay... cool deal 00:57:46 anything else? 00:57:47 Tsagadai -- 3 docs for the upstream Style Guide? 00:58:27 * Sparks notes two minutes left 00:58:33 nope, Virt Guide, Git guide, libvirt API guide :) 00:58:43 Ah OK -- you're ahead of us :) 00:58:56 okay, pressing on 00:58:58 #topic Guide needs? 00:59:05 Anyone have any guides that are in need? 00:59:18 * stickster has to bail for now 00:59:37 #topic New Guides 00:59:42 Any new guides? 01:00:15 #topic All other business 01:00:20 Sparks -- I might *very maybe* have an early version of a Power Management guide 01:00:25 Okay, any other business anyone would like to talk about? 01:00:27 But that's more likely to make F13 01:00:45 rudi: Ooooo sounds cool 01:01:09 Okay, anyone else? 01:01:18 5 01:01:22 4 01:01:24 3 01:01:26 I've just sent an update concerning the Deployment Guide to the fedora-docs-list 01:01:27 2 01:01:37 perspectival: +1 01:01:39 I try to come in at the last minute 01:01:43 :) 01:01:45 1 01:01:47 Anyone else? 01:01:55 Thanks everyone for coming! 01:01:58 #endmeeting From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Sep 17 15:52:13 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:52:13 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-09-17 Summary Message-ID: =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:02:29 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-17/fedora-meeting.2009-09-17-00.02.log.html . Meeting log ----------- * Roll Call (Sparks, 00:02:39) * LINK: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html (stickster, 00:04:13) * Last week's action items (Sparks, 00:05:32) * ACTION: quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. (Sparks, 00:15:24) * Publican Update (Sparks, 00:24:15) * Release notes format changes (Sparks, 00:32:55) * IDEA: Put All Changes in a separate doc? (Sparks, 00:33:12) * IDEA: Drop beats with few changes (Sparks, 00:33:20) * IDEA: Rearrange/add beats (Sparks, 00:33:28) * Status on CMS (Zikula) <-- ke4qqq (Sparks, 00:37:57) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks, 00:38:05) * ACTION: mchua to work with Sparks on an FAD for Zikula during FUDCon Toronto (Sparks, 00:43:52) * Status on CC license rollout. (Sparks, 00:45:24) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule (Sparks, 00:45:32) * AGREED: Proceed with CC licensing using only the text (Sparks, 00:53:10) * ACTION: quaid to follow up on the CC logo issues (Sparks, 00:54:34) * Shared open-source style guide (Sparks, 00:54:47) * LINK: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2009-June/msg00163.html (Sparks, 00:54:56) * Guide needs? (Sparks, 00:58:58) * New Guides (Sparks, 00:59:37) * All other business (Sparks, 01:00:15) Meeting ended at 01:01:58 UTC. Action Items ------------ * quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. * mchua to work with Sparks on an FAD for Zikula during FUDCon Toronto * quaid to follow up on the CC logo issues Action Items, by person ----------------------- * mchua * mchua to work with Sparks on an FAD for Zikula during FUDCon Toronto * quaid * quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. * quaid to follow up on the CC logo issues * Sparks * mchua to work with Sparks on an FAD for Zikula during FUDCon Toronto * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * Sparks (121) * rudi (35) * stickster (32) * jjmcd (30) * quaid (22) * mchua (14) * danielsmw (12) * ianweller (12) * spot (6) * Tsagadai (5) * buggbot (3) * onekopaka (3) * zodbot (2) * perspectival (2) * joat (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.3 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot From wb8rcr at arrl.net Thu Sep 17 15:48:39 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 11:48:39 -0400 Subject: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order References: <1253112970.6701.119.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4AB17ACA.4000001@redhat.com> <1253171794.2552.61.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1253201154.3288.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tomek Chrzczonowicz" To: "John J. McDonough" ; "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Thursday, September 17, 2009 11:25 AM Subject: Re: Installation Guide .pot strings out of order > Doesn't Publican take care of this? Do you name all > of them by hand? There are a few files that Publican controls the name of, but for the most part we name them ourselves. --McD From eric at christensenplace.us Thu Sep 17 16:06:31 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Thu, 17 Sep 2009 12:06:31 -0400 Subject: Meeting minutes and logs up on the wiki Message-ID: First I would like to thank John (jjmcd) for directing the meetings on the 3rd and 10th of September for me. He did an excellent job. I just got all the minutes and logs posted to the wiki[1] from those meetings and last night's meeting. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Category:Docs_Project_meetings#2009 Thanks, Eric From vishuindian at gmail.com Sat Sep 19 06:13:56 2009 From: vishuindian at gmail.com (vishesh kumar) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 11:43:56 +0530 Subject: Intro Message-ID: My name is vishesh kumar, working as a Linux system admin for a giant media house in india. My am working on Fedora and Redhat Enterprise Linux from around 5 years. I want to join FDP for following reasons Have closer contact with your favorite developers and projects. and writing as a career builder. What i can assure that i am sound in software hardware installation and configuration part. I can contribute to Fedora Documentaion in following area Installation or configuration of any software or hardware under Fedora General or security best practices What i need is oppurtunity to start. Thanks -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From a.mani.cms at gmail.com Sat Sep 19 16:44:11 2009 From: a.mani.cms at gmail.com (Mani A) Date: Sat, 19 Sep 2009 22:14:11 +0530 Subject: Book on the FOSS Community Message-ID: <78323d480909190944r3278a563lf834c16a0633deca@mail.gmail.com> "When I started work on The Art of Community I was really keen that it should be a body of work that all communities have access to. My passion behind the book was to provide a solid guide to building, energizing and enabling pro-active, productive and enjoyable communities. I wanted to write a book that covered the major areas of community leadership, distilling a set of best practices and experiences, and illustrated by countless stories, anecdotes and tales." http://www.jonobacon.org/2009/09/18/the-art-of-community-available-for-free-download Best A. Mani -- A. Mani ASL, CLC, AMS, CMS http://www.logicamani.co.cc From ccurran at redhat.com Sun Sep 20 23:59:37 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 09:59:37 +1000 Subject: Software and Bugs In-Reply-To: <78323d480909161707g7b7f20bdjc4d9cdc65abad83f@mail.gmail.com> References: <78323d480909161707g7b7f20bdjc4d9cdc65abad83f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AB6C1E9.4030304@redhat.com> Mani A wrote: > See https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=522961 > > "The statement "No software is without bugs." is located under section "1.4 > Common Bugs" " in Fedora 11 release notes. > > No software is without bugs. That's just a fact. You can try and pretty it up if you want. I hate when people sugar-coat their words, be honest and tell it like it is. > I agree that it is wrong to claim that 'all s/w is buggy'. > > I don't. I'm a programmer, any programmer that claims to produce bug free code is trying to steal your money. > What is your opinion? > > > Best > > A. Mani > > > Chris -- Chris Curran Content Author II Phone: +61735148302 (UTC+10) 193 North Quay, Brisbane, Australia. Red Hat, Inc. From petersen at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 02:44:28 2009 From: petersen at redhat.com (Jens Petersen) Date: Sun, 20 Sep 2009 22:44:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: a home for comps @books group In-Reply-To: <1351939788.574111253500866315.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <144877058.574141253501068369.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> So I start a rawhide install and decide to browse (customize) the package groups... I see an uncategorized group standing out - turns out to be a new @books group which currently contains 3 devel books... Then I remember fedora-security-guide-en_US (which doesn't really fit with the devel books). But there is the string/translation freeze so I hesitate to add a new Documentation category for F12... (maybe/probably we should for F13?). It seems most of the fedora-docs are published on the web so fedora-security-guide-en_US seems a bit lonely (probably also since current fedora publican still doesn't support the right package naming-scheme for fedora [1]). Anyway for F12 the options for @books seem to be: a) add @books to the Development category, (fits the 3 current opensource devel books there) b) add to Base category - less obvious IMHO; or c) break the string freeze and add a Documentation or a Content category? Or anyone have a better way? Probably more thought is needed on groups later: ie it might be better to have separate groups for devel and sysadmin type books later when more are packaged. But that shouldn't be a problem once they have their own category, or devel-books could be in Development, etc. A "Content" category would also allow other kinds of free content than just books and documentation. Jens [1] publican-1.0 should be able to create unversioned package names https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=478950 From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 21 03:10:46 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 08:40:46 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes Message-ID: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> Hi, I did spend sometime outlining what needs to be done but I am not going to do that work. If someone else doesn't step up, it won't get done and that would be a pity. If you want to participate, details at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Beta_release_notes Rahul From ccurran at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 08:55:29 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:55:29 +1000 Subject: a home for comps @books group In-Reply-To: <144877058.574141253501068369.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <144877058.574141253501068369.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AB73F81.6030204@redhat.com> Jens Petersen wrote: > So I start a rawhide install and decide to browse (customize) > the package groups... > > I see an uncategorized group standing out - turns out to be > a new @books group which currently contains 3 devel books... > > Then I remember fedora-security-guide-en_US (which doesn't > really fit with the devel books). > > But there is the string/translation freeze so I hesitate > to add a new Documentation category for F12... > (maybe/probably we should for F13?). > > It seems most of the fedora-docs are published on the web > so fedora-security-guide-en_US seems a bit lonely > (probably also since current fedora publican still doesn't > support the right package naming-scheme for fedora [1]). > > Desktop is a goal. Ebooks are a longer term goal (which could also be distributed with this method). > Anyway for F12 the options for @books seem to be: > > a) add @books to the Development category, > (fits the 3 current opensource devel books there) > I think this is a good solution. There is no point breaking string freeze if the books are already deprecated. > b) add to Base category - less obvious IMHO; or > Base would not be a good place for it in my view. Many use the Base group for minimal installs and it would annoy me if no one else to have docs there. > c) break the string freeze and add a Documentation > or a Content category? > > Or anyone have a better way? > > Probably more thought is needed on groups later: > ie it might be better to have separate groups for > devel and sysadmin type books later when more > are packaged. But that shouldn't be a problem > once they have their own category, or devel-books > could be in Development, etc. A "Content" > category would also allow other kinds of free content > than just books and documentation. > > I think it is wrong to have split groups for different audiences. There is always some crossover between audiences and with larger books this quickly becomes a very, very difficult question (as to whether to split the book or chuck it somewhere with a less than perfect fit). All books should be in one package group (regardless of whether there are 400 books or 4). Most people don't use groupinstall and those that do usually want everything (hence why they used it). Chris -- Chris Curran Content Author II Phone: +61735148302 (UTC+10) 193 North Quay, Brisbane, Australia. Red Hat, Inc. From baransels at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 09:15:36 2009 From: baransels at gmail.com (B.S.) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 12:15:36 +0300 Subject: Hello world! Message-ID: I have just joined the group, I'm want to help translation of documents.I'm from turkey.I only know turkish and english so I'm planning to translate some english docs to my native language Where can I start? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Sep 21 15:04:04 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:04:04 -0400 Subject: Hello world! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 05:15, B.S. wrote: > I have just joined the group, I'm want to help translation of documents.I'm > from turkey.I only know turkish and english so I'm planning to translate > some english docs to my native language > Where can I start? I think are in the wrong group. Have you looked at the L10N team[1]? [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N --Eric From baransels at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 15:30:31 2009 From: baransels at gmail.com (B.S.) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:30:31 +0300 Subject: Hello world! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: One of the example tasks of the docs group is "translate documents", translator is also one of the *"Contributing roles" *in docs wiki? So wiki is outdated or something? On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 05:15, B.S. wrote: > > I have just joined the group, I'm want to help translation of > documents.I'm > > from turkey.I only know turkish and english so I'm planning to translate > > some english docs to my native language > > Where can I start? > > I think are in the wrong group. Have you looked at the L10N team[1]? > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N > > --Eric > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From notting at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 15:43:46 2009 From: notting at redhat.com (Bill Nottingham) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 11:43:46 -0400 Subject: a home for comps @books group In-Reply-To: <144877058.574141253501068369.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <1351939788.574111253500866315.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <144877058.574141253501068369.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090921154345.GG5770@nostromo.devel.redhat.com> Jens Petersen (petersen at redhat.com) said: > a) add @books to the Development category, > (fits the 3 current opensource devel books there) > b) add to Base category - less obvious IMHO; or > c) break the string freeze and add a Documentation > or a Content category? > > Or anyone have a better way? Adding them to Development for now seems best. Bill From baransels at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 15:44:42 2009 From: baransels at gmail.com (B.S.) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:44:42 +0300 Subject: Hello world! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Wiki is really misleading...what I'm looking for is at " http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/" On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:30 PM, B.S. wrote: > One of the example tasks of the docs group is "translate documents", > translator is also one of the *"Contributing roles" *in docs wiki? So wiki > is outdated or something? > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Eric Christensen < > eric at christensenplace.us> wrote: > >> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 05:15, B.S. wrote: >> > I have just joined the group, I'm want to help translation of >> documents.I'm >> > from turkey.I only know turkish and english so I'm planning to translate >> > some english docs to my native language >> > Where can I start? >> >> I think are in the wrong group. Have you looked at the L10N team[1]? >> >> [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N >> >> --Eric >> >> -- >> fedora-docs-list mailing list >> fedora-docs-list at redhat.com >> To unsubscribe: >> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list >> > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From poelstra at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 17:00:08 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 10:00:08 -0700 Subject: Upcoming Docs schedule Message-ID: <4AB7B118.5050905@redhat.com> Upcoming Fedora 12 Tasks Full schedule available at: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-key-tasks.html Name Start End Reminder to Trans that POTs coming and how many Tue 2009-09-22 Tue 2009-09-22 Ongoing build translation review htmls Wed 2009-09-23 Mon 2009-10-05 Final (Beta) Freeze: Development Code Complete Tue 2009-09-29 Tue 2009-09-29 String Freeze: All Docs Guides Tue 2009-09-29 Tue 2009-09-29 Post Draft Guides to docs.fedoraproject.org Tue 2009-09-29 Wed 2009-09-30 Create Draft POT files for All Guides Tue 2009-09-29 Wed 2009-09-30 Build Draft Docs Guides RPMs Tue 2009-09-29 Wed 2009-09-30 Solicit Review and Bug Reports for Guides Wed 2009-09-30 Tue 2009-10-13 Translation Deadline: Beta Release Notes (PO Files complete) Mon 2009-10-05 Mon 2009-10-05 Build and Post release-notes to fedorahosted.org Mon 2009-10-05 Mon 2009-10-05 Build fed-rel-notes.rpm for Beta Release Tue 2009-10-06 Tue 2009-10-06 From stickster at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 18:49:39 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 14:49:39 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 08:40:46AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Hi, > > I did spend sometime outlining what needs to be done but I am not going > to do that work. If someone else doesn't step up, it won't get done and > that would be a pity. If you want to participate, details at > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Beta_release_notes Aren't the Beta release notes slated to be Publican-based and published on the Web? Are the notes you made meant to prompt people to create more text for the translators in the appropriate beats? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 19:25:32 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:25:32 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504063] Toolchain next steps In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909211925.n8LJPW9D013330@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504063 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|piotrdrag at gmail.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 19:25:40 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:25:40 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504069] Docs to fedorahosted.org In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909211925.n8LJPeh1013363@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504069 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|piotrdrag at gmail.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 19:25:09 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 15:25:09 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504062] Update helping-hand docs In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909211925.n8LJP9g1003874@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504062 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|piotrdrag at gmail.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 20:50:04 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:50:04 -0400 Subject: [Bug 229153] docs-common should move to submodule (&docs-common) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909212050.n8LKo4Nk002098@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229153 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|piotrdrag at gmail.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 21 20:52:32 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:22:32 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> On 09/22/2009 12:19 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 08:40:46AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> Hi, >> >> I did spend sometime outlining what needs to be done but I am not going >> to do that work. If someone else doesn't step up, it won't get done and >> that would be a pity. If you want to participate, details at >> >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Beta_release_notes > > Aren't the Beta release notes slated to be Publican-based and > published on the Web? If that's the case, I don't think I was made aware of it. Pointers? Rahul From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 20:54:07 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 16:54:07 -0400 Subject: [Bug 229153] docs-common should move to submodule (&docs-common) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909212054.n8LKs7Wn028465@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=229153 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|fedora-docs-list at redhat.com |piotrdrag at gmail.com -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 21 20:59:56 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:29:56 +0530 Subject: 1st Draft: Package Management with RPM Update In-Reply-To: <4AB1858D.10609@redhat.com> References: <4AB1858D.10609@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AB7E94C.8050901@fedoraproject.org> On 09/17/2009 06:10 AM, Douglas Silas wrote: > The first draft of the Package Management with RPM chapter is complete > and ready to be reviewed here: > > http://dsilas.fedorapeople.org/Deployment_Guide/en-US/html-single/#ch-rpm > > All comments/notes/suggestions welcome! Some of the material is certainly very out of date. "up2date is now deprecated in favor of yum (Yellowdog Updater Modified). The entire stack of tools which installs and updates software in Fedora 12 is now based on yum. This includes everything, from the initial installation via Anaconda to host software management tools like pirut." Pirut doesn't exist in Fedora for a long time. PackageKit and it graphical frontends have replaced it. You should probably introduce yum first, encourage the use of it and note that RPM is a low level utility so that users don't have to deal with dependencies themselves. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 21:03:29 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:03:29 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 02:22:32AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/22/2009 12:19 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 08:40:46AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> Hi, > >> > >> I did spend sometime outlining what needs to be done but I am not going > >> to do that work. If someone else doesn't step up, it won't get done and > >> that would be a pity. If you want to participate, details at > >> > >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Beta_release_notes > > > > Aren't the Beta release notes slated to be Publican-based and > > published on the Web? > > If that's the case, I don't think I was made aware of it. Pointers? Based on the same schedule everyone else is using for F12, in which our original Alpha was dropped, then Beta -> Alpha and Preview -> Beta. The timing for F12 Beta matches what would have been the Preview in releases before F12. That's always been the phase in the schedule when release notes are ported to DocBook, submitted for translation, and then published on the web. Having said that, it's up to the Docs team whether that's how these release notes are handled, but I believe that's the plan that was discussed in meetings, and judging by the commits and other work I've been seeing (nice work, Rudi, jjmcd, and many others), I think that's the work that's underway. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, though. :-) -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 21 21:03:02 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:33:02 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> On 09/22/2009 02:33 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > Having said that, it's up to the Docs team whether that's how these > release notes are handled, but I believe that's the plan that was > discussed in meetings, and judging by the commits and other work I've > been seeing (nice work, Rudi, jjmcd, and many others), I think that's > the work that's underway. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, > though. :-) I think, we need a docs announce list and some upfront announcements of such plans. I can't attend meetings or even read all the meeting minutes. Rahul From wb8rcr at arrl.net Mon Sep 21 21:26:08 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:26:08 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org><20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain><4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul W. Frields" To: Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 5:03 PM Subject: Re: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes > Based on the same schedule everyone else is using for F12, in which > our original Alpha was dropped, then Beta -> Alpha and Preview -> > Beta. The timing for F12 Beta matches what would have been the > Preview in releases before F12. That's always been the phase in the > schedule when release notes are ported to DocBook, submitted for > translation, and then published on the web. Not only the release notes, but all the "minor" documents are now in Publican. Translations for release notes are arriving at a furious pace. I'm having a problem getting the automatic build for L10N going, but I expect to have that going Thursday at the latest. The intent, by the way, is to build f-r-n.html frequently, probably nightly, so L10N can see their results. The release notes are a little different this time. The prose describing the changes only hits the highlights. This is followed by a long list of tables identifying every change. This way a person looking for that one particular new feature or bug fix can find it, even if nobody else thought it was important. Since the only logical way to organize the changes seemed to be by rpm_group, and depending on your particular perspective, the rpm_groups may or may not make sense, we have also included an alphabetical index. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 21:33:19 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:33:19 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090921213319.GS18270@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 02:33:02AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/22/2009 02:33 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > > > Having said that, it's up to the Docs team whether that's how these > > release notes are handled, but I believe that's the plan that was > > discussed in meetings, and judging by the commits and other work I've > > been seeing (nice work, Rudi, jjmcd, and many others), I think that's > > the work that's underway. I'm happy to be corrected if I'm wrong, > > though. :-) > > I think, we need a docs announce list and some upfront announcements of > such plans. I can't attend meetings or even read all the meeting minutes. That doesn't follow. The schedule for Docs tasks is published just like others, by John Poelstra, our schedule-meister, in accordance with the approval he gets from the Docs team members and leaders: http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html According to that schedule, to which the Docs team has been referring since before Fedora 12 development started, the release notes are being executed as planned and communicated. Setting up Yet Another Mailing List is solving a problem that doesn't seem to exist as far as I can tell. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 21:31:32 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:31:32 -0400 Subject: [Bug 504065] Team per document In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909212131.n8LLVWkf009669@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=504065 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|piotrdrag at gmail.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are on the CC list for the bug. From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 21:33:28 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:33:28 -0400 Subject: [Bug 508930] Move RPM Guide to wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909212133.n8LLXSjG010076@bz-web1.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508930 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|piotrdrag at gmail.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 21 21:32:32 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:02:32 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org><20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain><4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> Message-ID: <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> On 09/22/2009 02:56 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > > Not only the release notes, but all the "minor" documents are now in > Publican. Interesting. Wasn't aware of that. How are the documentation contributors informed about this? How do we keep track of such important changes without having to read every email? Rahul From bugzilla at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 21:33:35 2009 From: bugzilla at redhat.com (bugzilla at redhat.com) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:33:35 -0400 Subject: [Bug 508935] Need to move the Documentation Guide to the wiki In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200909212133.n8LLXZv7017213@bz-web2.app.phx.redhat.com> Please do not reply directly to this email. All additional comments should be made in the comments box of this bug. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508935 Piotr Dr?g changed: What |Removed |Added ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- CC|piotrdrag at gmail.com | -- Configure bugmail: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/userprefs.cgi?tab=email ------- You are receiving this mail because: ------- You are the assignee for the bug. From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 21 21:38:42 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:08:42 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <20090921213319.GS18270@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> <20090921213319.GS18270@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4AB7F262.3010304@fedoraproject.org> On 09/22/2009 03:03 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > That doesn't follow. The schedule for Docs tasks is published just > like others, by John Poelstra, our schedule-meister, in accordance > with the approval he gets from the Docs team members and leaders: > > http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html I don't see where I can infer from this schedule that the Beta release notes is not supposed to be one page document as has been done up until now but published via Publican now. > According to that schedule, to which the Docs team has been referring > since before Fedora 12 development started, the release notes are > being executed as planned and communicated. Setting up Yet Another > Mailing List is solving a problem that doesn't seem to exist as far as > I can tell. I am not just imagining the problem. It certainly does exist for me. How do I keep track of such important changes? A schedule is just one part of it. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 21:44:36 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:44:36 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090921214436.GU18270@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 03:02:32AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/22/2009 02:56 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > > > > Not only the release notes, but all the "minor" documents are now in > > Publican. > > Interesting. Wasn't aware of that. How are the documentation > contributors informed about this? How do we keep track of such important > changes without having to read every email? The fedora-docs-list is pretty low traffic, so Docs contributors generally do read them. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Sep 21 21:47:14 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:47:14 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 17:32, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/22/2009 02:56 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: >> >> Not only the release notes, but all the "minor" documents are now in >> Publican. > > Interesting. Wasn't aware of that. How are the documentation > contributors informed about this? How do we keep track of such important > changes without having to read every email? > > Rahul We make a point to put every decision or quest for a decision on the listserv or it is discussed at a meeting and then the logs are submitted to the listserv and to the wiki. This has been going on for quite some time. We were pushing for all documents to be put into Publican since F10. F11 seemed to get most of them and I think F12 will see all of them. I would encourage everyone to read the listserv as part of participating in the Project otherwise you won't know what's going on. --Eric From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 21 21:50:28 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:20:28 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4AB7F524.1000504@fedoraproject.org> On 09/22/2009 03:17 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 17:32, Rahul Sundaram > wrote: >> On 09/22/2009 02:56 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: >>> >>> Not only the release notes, but all the "minor" documents are now in >>> Publican. >> >> Interesting. Wasn't aware of that. How are the documentation >> contributors informed about this? How do we keep track of such important >> changes without having to read every email? >> >> Rahul > > We make a point to put every decision or quest for a decision on the > listserv or it is discussed at a meeting and then the logs are > submitted to the listserv and to the wiki What is listserv? Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 21:54:56 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 17:54:56 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB7F262.3010304@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> <20090921213319.GS18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F262.3010304@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090921215456.GV18270@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 03:08:42AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/22/2009 03:03 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > > That doesn't follow. The schedule for Docs tasks is published just > > like others, by John Poelstra, our schedule-meister, in accordance > > with the approval he gets from the Docs team members and leaders: > > > > http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-12/f-12-docs-tasks.html > > I don't see where I can infer from this schedule that the Beta release > notes is not supposed to be one page document as has been done up until > now but published via Publican now. > > > According to that schedule, to which the Docs team has been referring > > since before Fedora 12 development started, the release notes are > > being executed as planned and communicated. Setting up Yet Another > > Mailing List is solving a problem that doesn't seem to exist as far as > > I can tell. > > I am not just imagining the problem. It certainly does exist for me. How > do I keep track of such important changes? A schedule is just one part > of it. I'm not saying you're imagining a problem you're having. But extrapolating to the general community from yourself may not be the right answer. You attempt to track a lot of Fedora, which is certainly your choice. But then expecting all parts of the project to make that easier for you as a corner case is a little out of step with general open source conventions. Most contributors pick and choose where they want to be involved, they don't try and track every part of the project. You and I are exceptions. It's easy to set up mail filters for "Meeting," "Minutes" or some such if you just want to see important stuff from certain lists, and not read everything. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 21 21:53:01 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:23:01 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <20090921214436.GU18270@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> <20090921214436.GU18270@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4AB7F5BD.3040503@fedoraproject.org> On 09/22/2009 03:14 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 03:02:32AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> On 09/22/2009 02:56 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: >>> >>> Not only the release notes, but all the "minor" documents are now in >>> Publican. >> >> Interesting. Wasn't aware of that. How are the documentation >> contributors informed about this? How do we keep track of such important >> changes without having to read every email? > > The fedora-docs-list is pretty low traffic, so Docs contributors > generally do read them. If the expectation is that every docs contributor should all mails in this list, I don't have time for that unfortunately. I don't think I am the only person who faces that problem. If it is undesirable to create a announce list and highlight important changes, then I guess I will scale down my contributors and let others who have time to read every single mail, step up. Thanks. Rahul From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 21 21:55:50 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:25:50 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <20090921215456.GV18270@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> <20090921213319.GS18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F262.3010304@fedoraproject.org> <20090921215456.GV18270@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4AB7F666.906@fedoraproject.org> On 09/22/2009 03:24 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > I'm not saying you're imagining a problem you're having. But > extrapolating to the general community from yourself may not be the > right answer. You attempt to track a lot of Fedora, which is > certainly your choice. But then expecting all parts of the project to > make that easier for you as a corner case is a little out of step with > general open source conventions. A announce list seems to be the norm rather than the exception as the traffic in the list goes up really but if my needs are a corner case, then I will accept that and deal with it myself. Rahul From stickster at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 22:00:11 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:00:11 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB7F524.1000504@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> <4AB7F524.1000504@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090921220011.GW18270@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 03:20:28AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/22/2009 03:17 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 17:32, Rahul Sundaram > > wrote: > >> On 09/22/2009 02:56 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > >>> > >>> Not only the release notes, but all the "minor" documents are now in > >>> Publican. > >> > >> Interesting. Wasn't aware of that. How are the documentation > >> contributors informed about this? How do we keep track of such important > >> changes without having to read every email? > >> > >> Rahul > > > > We make a point to put every decision or quest for a decision on the > > listserv or it is discussed at a meeting and then the logs are > > submitted to the listserv and to the wiki > > What is listserv? Eric's talking about the mailman software that runs this list. Many long-time users refer to mail managers generally as "listservs" even if the software's not the same. There's actually software called "listserv" if memory serves (ha!). -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From eric at christensenplace.us Mon Sep 21 22:04:56 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:04:56 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <20090921220011.GW18270@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> <4AB7F524.1000504@fedoraproject.org> <20090921220011.GW18270@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 18:00, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 03:20:28AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: >> On 09/22/2009 03:17 AM, Eric Christensen wrote: >> > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 17:32, Rahul Sundaram >> > wrote: >> >> On 09/22/2009 02:56 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: >> >>> >> >>> Not only the release notes, but all the "minor" documents are now in >> >>> Publican. >> >> >> >> Interesting. Wasn't aware of that. How are the documentation >> >> contributors informed about this? How do we keep track of such important >> >> changes without having to read every email? >> >> >> >> Rahul >> > >> > We make a point to put every decision or quest for a decision on the >> > listserv or it is discussed at a meeting and then the logs are >> > submitted to the listserv and to the wiki >> >> What is listserv? > > Eric's talking about the mailman software that runs this list. ?Many > long-time users refer to mail managers generally as "listservs" even > if the software's not the same. ?There's actually software called > "listserv" if memory serves (ha!). > > > -- > Paul W. Frields ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?http://paul.frields.org/ There is! I guess we use Mailman, though. Can we make that a verb? --Eric From stickster at gmail.com Mon Sep 21 22:08:21 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 18:08:21 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB7F5BD.3040503@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> <20090921214436.GU18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F5BD.3040503@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090921220821.GY18270@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 03:23:01AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/22/2009 03:14 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 03:02:32AM +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> On 09/22/2009 02:56 AM, John J. McDonough wrote: > >>> > >>> Not only the release notes, but all the "minor" documents are now in > >>> Publican. > >> > >> Interesting. Wasn't aware of that. How are the documentation > >> contributors informed about this? How do we keep track of such important > >> changes without having to read every email? > > > > The fedora-docs-list is pretty low traffic, so Docs contributors > > generally do read them. > > If the expectation is that every docs contributor should all mails in > this list, I don't have time for that unfortunately. I don't think I am > the only person who faces that problem. If it is undesirable to create a > announce list and highlight important changes, then I guess I will scale > down my contributors and let others who have time to read every single > mail, step up. Thanks. Or you could use the method I described elsewhere that flags or moves meeting minutes and other Very Important Email in a way you can more easily prioritize it. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Mon Sep 21 22:19:11 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 03:49:11 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <20090921220821.GY18270@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> <20090921214436.GU18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F5BD.3040503@fedoraproject.org> <20090921220821.GY18270@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4AB7FBDF.9010606@fedoraproject.org> On 09/22/2009 03:38 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Or you could use the method I described elsewhere that flags or moves > meeting minutes and other Very Important Email in a way you can more > easily prioritize it. That doesn't work for me. Don't have time to read all the meeting mins. Something that highlights important changes specifically even if it isn't a separate mailing list would work well but if you are right and this is just my need, then it is not important. If the other regular contributors have the time to read all the mails, they probably have time to do a better job than me anyway. Rahul From r.landmann at redhat.com Mon Sep 21 23:02:02 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 09:02:02 +1000 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB7F524.1000504@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> <4AB7F524.1000504@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4AB805EA.6@redhat.com> On 09/22/2009 07:50 AM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > What is listserv An electronic mailing list. In the present context, fedora-docs-list specifically. Released in the late 1980s, LISTSERV was the first automated management software for electronic mailing lists. Although LISTSERV is a trademark of L-Soft for this particular piece of software, people colloquially use the word to refer to /any/ electronic mailing list management software and -- by extension -- to any electronic mailing list. This is similar to the way that people use the word "xerox" to refer to any photocopier, photocopy or -- as a verb -- the act of producing a photocopy.[1] You can find out more about LISTSERV at L-Soft's website,[2] and of course at Wikipedia.[3] A search for "listservs" on Google produces over 500,000 hits.[4] As a trademark, LISTSERV should never be written in plural form. It is therefore likely that most of the pages found by this search use the word "listservs" in a generic sense to refer to electronic mailing lists. Indeed, many of the hits on the first page of results demonstrate this usage unambiguously. Consider the following examples from the first page of hits: * "LISTSERVS, also called mailing lists, are a way of communicating via email on various topics..." * "ISACA and ITGI have established several listservs..." * "List of listservs (e-mail-based discussion forums) targeted to student interests..." * "In the Commonwealth, LISTSERVs are one of the ways to support communications among students..." * "Listservs are a popular means of communication and discussion within the Academy of Management." Cheers Rudi [1] This kind of usage is said to "genericise" a trademark and creates a problem for trademark holders. The Wikipedia article on the subject explains the phenomenon and its legal implications well -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genericized_trademark [2] http://www.lsoft.com/products/listserv.asp [3] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LISTSERV [4] http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=listservs From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Sep 22 00:05:48 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:05:48 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <8BD4E76472C846EE80E5C1B70AD18384@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Sundaram" To: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 11:10 PM Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes > Hi, > > I did spend sometime outlining what needs to be done but I am not going > to do that work. If someone else doesn't step up, it won't get done and > that would be a pity. If you want to participate, details at > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Beta_release_notes Rahul I actually did steal liberally from that page, as well as the feature pages. I didn't take everything, some things were hard to discover more details, some of interest to a smaller audience. This cycle the release notes are trying to have prose only on the most important features, although obviously, "most important" depends a lot on who you are. But I'm not ashamed to steal content anywhere I can find it! And I do appreciate you taking the time to put that together. It did serve to remind me of a number of things i had forgotten, and others I never knew. But no screencasts in the release notes -- sorry. --McD From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Sep 22 00:09:22 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Mon, 21 Sep 2009 20:09:22 -0400 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> <20090921214436.GU18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F5BD.3040503@fedoraproject.org><20090921220821.GY18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7FBDF.9010606@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <5089C0501F074BA384392A6AFC4905F9@Aidan> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rahul Sundaram" To: Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 6:19 PM Subject: Re: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes > That doesn't work for me. Don't have time to read all the meeting mins. > Something that highlights important changes specifically even if it > isn't a separate mailing list would work well but if you are right and > this is just my need, then it is not important. I don't know whether you, and others, are aware, but since we got the meeting bot, we post two documents as a result of the meeting; the log and the minutes. The minutes are generally quite short and show the main actions taken. They can serve to warn you if there is a discussion you want to read in the log. A lot fewer cycles than wading through the logs. --McD From r.landmann at redhat.com Tue Sep 22 00:46:11 2009 From: r.landmann at redhat.com (Ruediger Landmann) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:46:11 +1000 Subject: Hello world! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AB81E53.6030309@redhat.com> On 09/22/2009 01:44 AM, B.S. wrote: > Wiki is really misleading...what I'm looking for is at > "http://docs.fedoraproject.org/translation-quick-start-guide/" Thanks very much for highlighting this for us, B.S.! Over time, we've had quite a few people introduce themselves on the docs list offering to help with translations -- now I know why! The wiki really is misleading... Anyway, I hope this experience has not scared you away -- welcome :) Cheers Ruediger > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:30 PM, B.S. > wrote: > > One of the example tasks of the docs group is "translate > documents", translator is also one of the *"Contributing roles" > *in docs wiki? So wiki is outdated or something? > > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 6:04 PM, Eric Christensen > > wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 05:15, B.S. > wrote: > > I have just joined the group, I'm want to help translation > of documents.I'm > > from turkey.I only know turkish and english so I'm planning > to translate > > some english docs to my native language > > Where can I start? > > I think are in the wrong group. Have you looked at the L10N > team[1]? > > [1] http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N > > --Eric > > -- > fedora-docs-list mailing list > fedora-docs-list at redhat.com > To unsubscribe: > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list > > > From ccurran at redhat.com Tue Sep 22 01:52:59 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 11:52:59 +1000 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB7F666.906@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> <20090921213319.GS18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F262.3010304@fedoraproject.org> <20090921215456.GV18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F666.906@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4AB82DFB.8000609@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/22/2009 03:24 AM, Paul W. Frields wrote: > > >> I'm not saying you're imagining a problem you're having. But >> extrapolating to the general community from yourself may not be the >> right answer. You attempt to track a lot of Fedora, which is >> certainly your choice. But then expecting all parts of the project to >> make that easier for you as a corner case is a little out of step with >> general open source conventions. >> > > A announce list seems to be the norm rather than the exception as the > traffic in the list goes up really but if my needs are a corner case, > then I will accept that and deal with it myself. > > Rahul > > People still use email lists for announcements? How about a blog like the rest of the twenty first century. Chris From petersen at redhat.com Tue Sep 22 06:13:11 2009 From: petersen at redhat.com (Jens Petersen) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 02:13:11 -0400 (EDT) Subject: a home for comps @books group In-Reply-To: <547894647.687381253599919950.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <523667315.687401253599991179.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> ----- "Christopher Curran" wrote: > > a) add @books to the Development category, > > (fits the 3 current opensource devel books there) > There is no point breaking string > freeze if the books are already deprecated. I don't think any are deprecated. For reference the current books are: - diveintopython - javanotes - ldd-pdf (linux device drivers) so yeah developer-oriented. I went ahead and put @books into the Development category for F12. I am still wondering about a "Content" category for F13. Should we go with that even it only were to contain @books for now? Anyway probably more important would be getting gnome-packagekit to list books when we have more. Jens From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Sep 22 10:15:43 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 15:45:43 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB82DFB.8000609@redhat.com> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> <20090921213319.GS18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F262.3010304@fedoraproject.org> <20090921215456.GV18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F666.906@fedoraproject.org> <4AB82DFB.8000609@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AB8A3CF.2070603@fedoraproject.org> On 09/22/2009 07:22 AM, Christopher Curran wrote: > People still use email lists for announcements? > > How about a blog like the rest of the twenty first century. The number of announce lists in Fedora has only increased steadily. Welcome to the real 21st century. Rahul From bruno at wolff.to Tue Sep 22 15:16:17 2009 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 10:16:17 -0500 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <20090921220011.GW18270@localhost.localdomain> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <1D5F1C93AF324EF6BF1E906DD6AAF8D7@Aidan> <4AB7F0F0.1080802@fedoraproject.org> <4AB7F524.1000504@fedoraproject.org> <20090921220011.GW18270@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090922151617.GA11587@wolff.to> On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 18:00:11 -0400, "Paul W. Frields" wrote: > > Eric's talking about the mailman software that runs this list. Many > long-time users refer to mail managers generally as "listservs" even > if the software's not the same. There's actually software called > "listserv" if memory serves (ha!). There was both listproc and listserv. They had crash bugs, which almost certainly means they had security bugs. We were still using one of them at work after spam starting being a problem and some of the spam messages (which tended to have long headers more than usual messages) would crash the server. From wb8rcr at arrl.net Tue Sep 22 17:59:05 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Tue, 22 Sep 2009 13:59:05 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Release Notes References: <20090922160052.79361619F53@hormel.redhat.com> Message-ID: <288330772DC64F2688FF139BCD72DCE6@Aidan> I am currently uploading a build of the release notes to http://fedora.is-sixsigma.com/F12beta/ for all the languages. All the languages should be there in a few hours. Most only have a little translation done, but I appreciate folks getting right on this. I will update this copy frequently over the next couple of weeks so that translators have a chance to review their work without having to personally go through all the gyrations of building the notes. Thanks for your hard work --McD From stickster at gmail.com Wed Sep 23 18:02:30 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 14:02:30 -0400 Subject: Technical advisory opportunity Message-ID: <20090923180230.GC31586@localhost.localdomain> Hi Fedora Docs team, I was contacted by an editor for a well-known series of UNIX volumes who asked me to check with the Docs team to see if there was anyone interested in serving as a technical assistant for their upcoming book that in part covers Fedora 12. It's a for-fee job. I don't want to clog the list with "me too" messages, so please respond to me off-list. I'll forward all names I receive by COB Friday, September 25th to the editor for action, and note them here to the list as well for transparency. Here are the skills, abilities, and knowledge you'll need to do the job: * Access to a pre-Fedora 12 (Rawhide) system, staying current with updates * RHCE certification, or an equivalent level of skill -- that is, skill in most pieces of the Fedora platform -- is helpful * A significant amount of spare time to fact-check all the relevant chapters, usually a few at a time * The ability to relay and revise information if something changes over the period of work * Ability to work well and be accurate and thorough under pressure and strict time deadlines * The ability to communicate clearly in English to other people on the team such as authors and editors I've done technical editing on a book in the past, and it is a fairly demanding part-time job that requires several weeks of detail-oriented reading, testing, note-taking, and communication with the writers. I don't think I could have done it alongside my tasks in a release cycle at the time, but I happened to come into a project during downtime after a release so everything worked out OK. Fortunately, it can be very rewarding if you enjoy the subject matter. I look forward to hearing from any interested folks off-list. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From kwade at redhat.com Thu Sep 24 01:47:47 2009 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 23 Sep 2009 18:47:47 -0700 Subject: a home for comps @books group In-Reply-To: <523667315.687401253599991179.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> References: <547894647.687381253599919950.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <523667315.687401253599991179.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> Message-ID: <20090924014747.GO7220@calliope.phig.org> On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 02:13:11AM -0400, Jens Petersen wrote: > I am still wondering about a "Content" category for F13. > Should we go with that even it only were to contain @books > for now? Anyway probably more important would be getting > gnome-packagekit to list books when we have more. I like that; there could be lots of content that fits, e.g. screencasts. Better to be a bit wider in our solution. - Karsten -- Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener http://quaid.fedorapeople.org AD0E0C41 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ccurran at redhat.com Thu Sep 24 02:21:38 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:21:38 +1000 Subject: a home for comps @books group In-Reply-To: <20090924014747.GO7220@calliope.phig.org> References: <547894647.687381253599919950.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <523667315.687401253599991179.JavaMail.root@zmail02.collab.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com> <20090924014747.GO7220@calliope.phig.org> Message-ID: <4ABAD7B2.80106@redhat.com> Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 02:13:11AM -0400, Jens Petersen wrote: > > >> I am still wondering about a "Content" category for F13. >> Should we go with that even it only were to contain @books >> for now? Anyway probably more important would be getting >> gnome-packagekit to list books when we have more. >> > > I like that; there could be lots of content that fits, > e.g. screencasts. Better to be a bit wider in our solution. > > - Karsten > I think, even considering, delivering screencasts by RPM or yum is completely the wrong approach. Documentation has a space on the desktop, videos do not. -- Chris Curran Content Author II Phone: +61735148302 (UTC+10) 193 North Quay, Brisbane, Australia. Red Hat, Inc. From ccurran at redhat.com Thu Sep 24 02:30:13 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 12:30:13 +1000 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4AB8A3CF.2070603@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> <20090921213319.GS18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F262.3010304@fedoraproject.org> <20090921215456.GV18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F666.906@fedoraproject.org> <4AB82DFB.8000609@redhat.com> <4AB8A3CF.2070603@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4ABAD9B5.8030906@redhat.com> Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/22/2009 07:22 AM, Christopher Curran wrote: > > >> People still use email lists for announcements? >> >> How about a blog like the rest of the twenty first century. >> > > The number of announce lists in Fedora has only increased steadily. > Welcome to the real 21st century. > > Rahul > > Rahul, you can't seriously believe anyone in the wider community (outside of government and universities) still uses email lists as a way of making announcements. Most are using blogs, with press release style articles (or actual press releases which are sent to the real media). Just because it is going up in the fedora world does not mean it is not sinking into obscurity in the rest of the world. What that means is we are further isolating ourselves from the wider community and becoming LESS accessible as technologies and mindsets change. Most open source coding projects I am involved in do not even have mailing lists anymore. Blogs and RSS are the norm, even twitter in some cases. Chris From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Thu Sep 24 02:34:13 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 08:04:13 +0530 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4ABAD9B5.8030906@redhat.com> References: <4AB6EEB6.6030302@fedoraproject.org> <20090921184939.GM18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7E790.3070801@fedoraproject.org> <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> <20090921213319.GS18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F262.3010304@fedoraproject.org> <20090921215456.GV18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F666.906@fedoraproject.org> <4AB82DFB.8000609@redhat.com> <4AB8A3CF.2070603@fedoraproject.org> <4ABAD9B5.8030906@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4ABADAA5.9060501@fedoraproject.org> On 09/24/2009 08:00 AM, Christopher Curran wrote: > Rahul, you can't seriously believe anyone in the wider community > (outside of government and universities) still uses email lists as a way > of making announcements. Most are using blogs, with press release style > articles (or actual press releases which are sent to the real media). Which open source projects are you involved with? Most of the ones I am involved with rely on mailing lists very heavily. > Just because it is going up in the fedora world does not mean it is not > sinking into obscurity in the rest of the world. What that means is we > are further isolating ourselves from the wider community and becoming > LESS accessible as technologies and mindsets change. Why would Fedora docs project announcements need to be done as press releases? Anyway, I am the not the person you need to convince. Rahul From bruno at wolff.to Thu Sep 24 12:45:14 2009 From: bruno at wolff.to (Bruno Wolff III) Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 07:45:14 -0500 Subject: Won't be working on Fedora 12 Beta release notes In-Reply-To: <4ABADAA5.9060501@fedoraproject.org> References: <20090921210329.GP18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7EA06.6080004@fedoraproject.org> <20090921213319.GS18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F262.3010304@fedoraproject.org> <20090921215456.GV18270@localhost.localdomain> <4AB7F666.906@fedoraproject.org> <4AB82DFB.8000609@redhat.com> <4AB8A3CF.2070603@fedoraproject.org> <4ABAD9B5.8030906@redhat.com> <4ABADAA5.9060501@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <20090924124514.GA3880@wolff.to> On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 08:04:13 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/24/2009 08:00 AM, Christopher Curran wrote: > > > Rahul, you can't seriously believe anyone in the wider community > > (outside of government and universities) still uses email lists as a way > > of making announcements. Most are using blogs, with press release style > > articles (or actual press releases which are sent to the real media). > > Which open source projects are you involved with? Most of the ones I am > involved with rely on mailing lists very heavily. Wesnoth doesn't use email for discussion for most things. They primarily use a combination of IRC and forums. That's still a lot different than using blogs. I can't see how using blogs for discussions is going to work well. From wb8rcr at arrl.net Fri Sep 25 21:32:34 2009 From: wb8rcr at arrl.net (John J. McDonough) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 17:32:34 -0400 Subject: Fedora 12 Release Notes References: <20090922160052.79361619F53@hormel.redhat.com><288330772DC64F2688FF139BCD72DCE6@Aidan> <19133.9407.675761.626943@freddi.uddeborg> Message-ID: ----- Original Message ----- From: "G?ran Uddeborg" To: "John J. McDonough" ; "Fedora Translation Project List" Cc: "For participants of the Documentation Project" Sent: Friday, September 25, 2009 4:14 PM Subject: Fedora 12 Release Notes > There are certain parts of the release notes missing from the pot > files. For example section "1.5.1. We Need Feedback!". Is this > something that is planned to be fixed later on, or should I write a > bugzilla about it? Interesting. That section is part of "Common Content", and as such, isn't really a part of the Release Notes but a part of the Fedora branding for Publican. So no its not a bug, and no it shouldn't be in the pot. I have just installed updated branding so if all goes well, a copy with the branding bits in the correct language for nl and se should be up in an hour or less. All the languages will be done overnight. --McD From stickster at gmail.com Sat Sep 26 00:58:44 2009 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 20:58:44 -0400 Subject: Technical advisory opportunity In-Reply-To: <20090923180230.GC31586@localhost.localdomain> References: <20090923180230.GC31586@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20090926005844.GJ18048@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 02:02:30PM -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Hi Fedora Docs team, > > I was contacted by an editor for a well-known series of UNIX volumes > who asked me to check with the Docs team to see if there was anyone > interested in serving as a technical assistant for their upcoming book > that in part covers Fedora 12. It's a for-fee job. > > I don't want to clog the list with "me too" messages, so please > respond to me off-list. I'll forward all names I receive by COB > Friday, September 25th to the editor for action, and note them here to > the list as well for transparency. The list of people who responded was: Susan Lauber Harish Pillay John Poelstra I've sent these names on to the publisher. -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug From noreply at boxbe.com Sun Sep 27 14:22:27 2009 From: noreply at boxbe.com (noreply at boxbe.com) Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 07:22:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Branch 'f12-tx' - po/pt.po (Action Required) Message-ID: <1086749857.1070332.1254061347511.JavaMail.prod@app003.boxbe.com> Hello Transifex System User, This message serves as notification that you will not receive any more courtesy notices from our members for two days. Messages you have sent will remain in a lower priority queue for our member to review at their leisure. Future messages will be more likely to be viewed if you are on our member's priority Guest List. Thank you, krishna.tadepalli at gmail.com About Boxbe This courtesy notice is part of a free service to make email more reliable and useful. 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From: Transifex System User Subject: Branch 'f12-tx' - po/pt.po Date: Sun, 27 Sep 2009 14:09:17 +0000 (UTC) Size: 3324 URL: From dhensley at redhat.com Mon Sep 28 02:44:57 2009 From: dhensley at redhat.com (Douglas Silas Hensley) Date: Mon, 28 Sep 2009 04:44:57 +0200 Subject: 1st Draft: Package Management with RPM Update In-Reply-To: <4AB7E94C.8050901@fedoraproject.org> References: <4AB1858D.10609@redhat.com> <4AB7E94C.8050901@fedoraproject.org> Message-ID: <4AC02329.9080302@redhat.com> Hi Rahul, On 09/21/2009 10:59 PM, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > On 09/17/2009 06:10 AM, Douglas Silas wrote: >> The first draft of the Package Management with RPM chapter is complete >> and ready to be reviewed here: >> >> http://dsilas.fedorapeople.org/Deployment_Guide/en-US/html-single/#ch-rpm >> >> All comments/notes/suggestions welcome! > > Some of the material is certainly very out of date. > > "up2date is now deprecated in favor of yum (Yellowdog Updater Modified). > The entire stack of tools which installs and updates software in Fedora > 12 is now based on yum. This includes everything, from the initial > installation via Anaconda to host software management tools like pirut." > > Pirut doesn't exist in Fedora for a long time. PackageKit and it > graphical frontends have replaced it. You should probably introduce yum > first, encourage the use of it and note that RPM is a low level utility > so that users don't have to deal with dependencies themselves. I had been thinking a long time of shifting the chapter order as well, and now I've done just that. The order of chapters is now: Yum -> PackageKit -> RPM. These could still be swapped around based on feedback, but I currently agree with you. > > Rahul > If you have the chance to look over the much-modified Part I, I'd love to hear it. Aside from a few small things, it's completely updated (with a completely new chapter on PackageKit): http://dsilas.fedorapeople.org/Deployment_Guide/en-US/html-single/index.html#pt-pkg-management Cheers, -- Douglas Silas Technical Writer | Red Hat, Inc. Purky?ova 99 | Brno, Czech Republic Office Direct Dial?62116 Brno Office?(+420) 532 294 111 ext. 10718 From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Sep 29 11:53:46 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:53:46 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-09-24 IRC Log Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 00:01:38 #startmeeting Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings 00:01:38 Meeting started Thu Sep 24 00:01:38 2009 UTC. The chair is Sparks. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 00:01:38 Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 00:01:47 #topic Roll Call 00:01:48 * Sparks 00:02:07 * jjmcd . 00:02:56 * danielsmw 00:03:31 * ianweller kinda sorta not really 00:05:47 * Sparks gives everyone just a few more minutes 00:08:34 Okay, let's get started. 00:08:48 #topic Last week's action items 00:09:00 quaid to follow up with Richard about the use of the CC logo on the wiki. 00:09:01 none of the action item guys are here 00:09:09 Yeah, I just realized that. 00:09:24 We'll just pass these by... 00:09:42 #topic Release notes format changes 00:09:50 jjmcd: Is there any further discussion on this? 00:09:56 what were we changing? 00:10:26 A little late, they are being built each night 00:10:34 I don't know. 00:10:42 We'll just call this topic done. 00:10:54 #topic Status on CMS (Zikula) 00:10:55 http://fedora.is-sixsigma.com/F12beta 00:11:02 Is there any update on Zikula? 00:11:25 Um, I guess I have a small one 00:11:31 danielsmw: go ahead 00:11:45 I hope I'm not being a blocker, but I'm not done with my package yet. 00:11:48 I am very close though 00:11:51 and most of the work is done 00:11:59 danielsmw: Which package? 00:12:01 what I need is a legit packager to help me out with my packaging mistakes 00:12:04 Xinha, for Scribite! 00:12:17 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status 00:12:26 ^^^ I don't see it on the list. Could you add it, please? 00:12:53 danielsmw: I'm a packager but certainly not legit. ianweller is one, though. 00:13:01 Sparks: alright 00:13:05 If he can't help you then maybe he can point you to someone who can 00:13:07 wait, should this be on this list? 00:13:14 Yes. 00:13:19 okay 00:13:23 even though it's a general package 00:13:26 and not a zikula module? 00:13:54 Well... it's needed for Zikula, right? 00:13:56 It's just that it's _for_ zikula, which is why I brought it up now. 00:13:58 Yeah, it is 00:14:02 So I guess it goes there then. 00:14:05 I'll update the list. :) 00:14:18 TU 00:14:40 danielsmw: Do you know how much more time it will take to get it straight? 00:14:57 if I may... I had started to package Xinha for a project of mine (but they I abandoned as I didn't use it in the end) 00:15:18 Sparks: i really do have most of it done now, I believe. It's just silly rpmbuild errors 00:15:27 all I remember is that it wasn't a hard package, I had it built 00:15:40 bochecha: it doesn't look that hard, I'm just no good at packaging. :) 00:15:41 danielsmw: What are the errors? 00:15:54 danielsmw, if I can help, drop me an email, I had already done it :P 00:16:09 Sparks: things like... using sources that aren't archives, and such. 00:16:12 bochecha: will do, thanks! 00:16:25 Sparks: but the main outline of what I"m doing is there. 00:16:31 danielsmw.fedorapeople.org/xinha.spec 00:17:20 danielsmw: Okay. If I can get my head above water (maybe this weekend) I'll be happy to look at it. ianweller fixed so many errors for me that I might know how to fix yours 00:17:24 might 00:17:41 Sparks: might. thanks, it looks like I'll be getting plenty of help. 00:17:47 danielsmw, if you have time tomorrow I might help, too tired tonite 00:18:08 cool 00:18:12 great 00:18:14 thanks everyone. 00:18:17 i appreciate it. 00:18:20 Anything else for zikula? 00:19:21 uh 00:19:23 I have a question 00:19:27 danielsmw: Go ahead 00:19:35 * quaid arrives back 00:19:38 On that page you told me to edit, FCKeditor is listed as something that needs to be packaged 00:19:46 * quaid can address his item when it comes back around 00:19:47 which is basically the same thing as Xinha. 00:19:53 is there a reason they should both be done? 00:20:23 No 00:20:25 or is that just left over? 00:20:26 Not really 00:20:30 okay, i'll remove it then. 00:21:11 Okay, anything else for Zikula? 00:22:03 #topic Status on CC license rollout. 00:22:14 quaid: Were you able to follow up with Legal? 00:22:16 danielsmw: did you get hooked up with the Beacon maintainer? 00:22:19 Sparks: yes! 00:22:25 quaid: no, I forgot! 00:22:28 ironically, Richard just pointed back to spot 00:22:41 and spot knows of the problem; and there doesn't seem to be a solution 00:22:51 i.e., the CC logo(s) are not coverable by the CC-BY-SA 00:23:04 but maybe spot can explain better ... 00:23:08 * quaid forgot to ask if he'd be around 00:23:16 neither is our logo... 00:23:24 BUT, I'm good either way 00:23:44 heh, nor are other logos we might carry 00:23:50 yeah 00:24:22 spot: You around? 00:25:14 I guess not. 00:25:24 So I don't see the problem with using it. 00:25:47 And I do see a problem with using it. 00:26:00 So are we going to go with "don't use it"? 00:26:07 well, we have a clear legal guidance for don't use 00:26:13 so, for now, we don't use it. 00:26:24 I'll ask spot to explain on list, k? 00:26:40 k 00:27:08 #link https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule 00:27:29 So I guess we need to make internal notifications and then get ianweller on changing the wiki over 00:28:08 rudi's not here tonight but he was still trying to get access to those packages so he could change the Publican brand files over 00:28:30 * danielsmw is sneaking out early. peace. 00:28:37 danielsmw: Have a good one 00:28:46 Anything else on the license changeover? 00:29:02 * quaid is happy :) 00:29:30 #topic # 00:29:30 * 00:29:32 #topic Shared open-source style guide 00:29:47 I think this is a rudi thing, too. Anyone have anything to report on this? 00:30:09 well, yes 00:30:14 this was just part of something, righ? 00:30:14 quaid: Go ahead 00:30:20 do we have someone who is focusing on what is going on 00:30:25 with the upstream initiative? 00:30:26 Well.... 00:30:29 writingopensource.org, right? 00:30:34 maybe 00:30:39 I don't remember now 00:30:49 I think rudi was working on getting RH to release their docs 00:31:03 right 00:31:04 I think ke4qqq was going to work on it as well 00:31:17 that is something we can contribute to the upstream effort, or so I thought we discussed :) 00:31:27 I forget who was on-list with this item ... 00:31:36 he's a gnome.org person, iirc. 00:31:38 yeah, I think someone else had point but I don't remember who 00:31:48 * quaid looks 00:34:38 It's been so long ago I don't even remember 00:34:49 shaun mcchance? 00:34:57 * quaid having slow browser ... 00:35:50 * quaid joins http://identi.ca/group/wosdocs 00:36:19 So we need to figure out who from FP is going to work on this. 00:36:56 I think ke4qqq was interested but I don't know how much time he has now 00:38:53 Let's take this to the list and see if we can stir up any interest 00:38:57 anything else on this? 00:39:28 #topic Guide needs? 00:39:38 Are their any guides (or RN) that need help? 00:40:13 I see some weird stuff 00:40:19 need to get w/rudi 00:40:56 okay... anything else? 00:41:36 #topic New Guides 00:41:40 Any new guides? 00:42:33 #topic All other business 00:42:46 Anyone have anything else? 00:44:32 * Sparks thinks we're going to get done early 00:44:43 5 00:44:45 4 00:44:47 3 00:44:49 2 00:44:52 1 00:44:57 #endmeeting -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.8) iEYEARECAAYFAkrB9UgACgkQfQTSQL0MFMErPQCgkOorQMfe6mD61fq7OUd1ZOFX hqsAnin1A1u2NTf4GukmBX+1zr75gJZf =gcpi -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From eric at christensenplace.us Tue Sep 29 11:54:57 2009 From: eric at christensenplace.us (Eric Christensen) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 07:54:57 -0400 Subject: Docs Meeting 2009-09-24 Summary Message-ID: -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 =================================================================================================== #fedora-meeting: Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings =================================================================================================== Meeting started by Sparks at 00:01:38 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2009-09-24/fedora-meeting.2009-09-24-00.01.log.html . Meeting log - ----------- * Roll Call (Sparks, 00:01:47) * Last week's action items (Sparks, 00:08:48) * Release notes format changes (Sparks, 00:09:42) * Status on CMS (Zikula) (Sparks, 00:10:54) * LINK: http://fedora.is-sixsigma.com/F12beta (jjmcd, 00:10:55) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Zikula#Module_status (Sparks, 00:12:17) * Status on CC license rollout. (Sparks, 00:22:03) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/License_changeover_schedule (Sparks, 00:27:08) * # (Sparks, 00:29:30) * Shared open-source style guide (Sparks, 00:29:32) * Guide needs? (Sparks, 00:39:28) * New Guides (Sparks, 00:41:36) * All other business (Sparks, 00:42:33) Meeting ended at 00:44:57 UTC. Action Items - ------------ Action Items, by person - ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) - --------------------------- * Sparks (79) * danielsmw (35) * quaid (27) * jjmcd (9) * bochecha (3) * zodbot (2) * ianweller (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.3 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.8) iEYEARECAAYFAkrB9ZAACgkQfQTSQL0MFMHpmQCgsoP9GGBhMslBLYPCEUzb/98Q qssAoIIqyJm8a5ZHon++O2HN855DRhXI =CJM7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From sundaram at fedoraproject.org Tue Sep 29 12:19:33 2009 From: sundaram at fedoraproject.org (Rahul Sundaram) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 17:49:33 +0530 Subject: 1st Draft: Package Management with RPM Update In-Reply-To: <4AC02329.9080302@redhat.com> References: <4AB1858D.10609@redhat.com> <4AB7E94C.8050901@fedoraproject.org> <4AC02329.9080302@redhat.com> Message-ID: <4AC1FB55.50804@fedoraproject.org> On 09/28/2009 08:14 AM, Douglas Silas Hensley wrote: >> > If you have the chance to look over the much-modified Part I, I'd love > to hear it. Aside from a few small things, it's completely updated (with > a completely new chapter on PackageKit): > > http://dsilas.fedorapeople.org/Deployment_Guide/en-US/html-single/index.html#pt-pkg-management Much better. Few more notes: All screenshots should use the default theme (and font) RPM is both the name of the low level tool as well as the format. So when you use the term, it would be useful to note the context. PackageKit is the underlying framework. Do not confuse it with the frontends (gnome-packagekit or kpackagekit). Tolerant option is a no-op. It is only retained for backward compatibility. Don't mention it in the guide at all. In a multi-lib system, you can use yum install package.arch, ex: gtk2.i386 to install the package for a specific arch. For package group installation, I prefer something like # yum -v grouplist | grep -i kde # yum install @kde-desktop It is much easier to type and consistent with the kickstart format. @ denotes a group operation and yum can use a group id (kde-desktop) instead of the full name. Yum plugins should be covered. You might want to add a note on gpg signatures in the first section itself. It is critically important that users understand the security reasons for it. For creating a repo, createrepo -d is much better since it creates the sqlite database which speeds up yum operations. Delta RPM (presto plugin, createrepo options) can be explained in more detail. RPM section should warn against using --nodeps. Cover the difference between rpmsave and rpmnew (http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/~jw35/docs/rpm_config.html) That's it for now. Rahul From poelstra at redhat.com Tue Sep 29 17:07:47 2009 From: poelstra at redhat.com (John Poelstra) Date: Tue, 29 Sep 2009 10:07:47 -0700 Subject: Upcoming Fedora 12 Documentation Tasks Message-ID: <4AC23EE3.7040303@redhat.com> Upcoming Fedora 12 Documentation Tasks Name Start End Ongoing build translation review htmls Wed 2009-09-23 Mon 2009-10-05 String Freeze: All Docs Guides Tue 2009-09-29 Tue 2009-09-29 Final (Beta) Freeze: Development Code Complete Tue 2009-09-29 Tue 2009-09-29 Create Draft POT files for All Guides Tue 2009-09-29 Wed 2009-09-30 Build Draft Docs Guides RPMs Tue 2009-09-29 Wed 2009-09-30 Post Draft Guides to docs.fedoraproject.org Tue 2009-09-29 Wed 2009-09-30 Solicit Review and Bug Reports for Guides Wed 2009-09-30 Tue 2009-10-13 Translation Deadline: Beta Release Notes (PO Files complete) Mon 2009-10-05 Mon 2009-10-05 Build and Post release-notes to fedorahosted.org Mon 2009-10-05 Mon 2009-10-05 Build fed-rel-notes.rpm for Beta Release Tue 2009-10-06 Tue 2009-10-06 Beta Project Wide Release Readiness Meeting Wed 2009-10-07 Wed 2009-10-07 Create Beta Announcement Wed 2009-10-07 Fri 2009-10-09 Reminder to Trans that Guides POT files are coming Mon 2009-10-12 Mon 2009-10-12 Start One-page Release Notes: Docs & Marketing Tue 2009-10-13 Tue 2009-10-13 Beta Release Public Availability Tue 2009-10-13 Tue 2009-10-13 Prepare GA Release Notes Tue 2009-10-13 Tue 2009-10-13 Create POT files for All Guides Tue 2009-10-13 Wed 2009-10-14 Create one page Release Notes with Marketing Tue 2009-10-13 Tue 2009-10-20 I realize the formatting of these emails is not pretty if your email reader uses a proportional font. The mail archives are worse, for example https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2009-September/msg00082.html Right now I'm using a simple python script to parse and add spaces to a CSV file created by TaskJuggler. Let me know if there are any ideas for fixing this. Thanks, John From ccurran at redhat.com Wed Sep 30 06:26:52 2009 From: ccurran at redhat.com (Christopher Curran) Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 16:26:52 +1000 Subject: New docs project - Fedora Virtualization Guide Message-ID: <4AC2FA2C.6080205@redhat.com> As King Leonidas, also the codename for Fedora 11, said in the movie 300: "This is Sparta!" so it is that "This is Fedora!". Today, Fedora grows by one more project as a new Virtualization Guide joins the CC-BY-SA licensed works within the mighty docs project. Presently, the Virtualization Guide is not ready for the prime time spotlight (much as detractors say virtualization is not ready for production). Fear not, for I shall slave until it delivers and provides quality virtualization documentation for Fedora. It may not be Year of the Linux Desktop yet, but it will be Year of Linux Virtualization with your assistance. Some translations are included. To get involved visit the friendly wiki: https://fedorahosted.org/Virtualization_Guide/ or send me an email/IRC ping. Have fun now, Chris -- Chris Curran Content Author II Phone: +61735148302 (UTC+10) 193 North Quay, Brisbane, Australia. Red Hat, Inc.