From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue Dec 6 16:22:30 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 16:22:30 -0000 (GMT) Subject: Can't make tonight :-( Message-ID: <36467.192.168.100.90.1133886150.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Dear Guys, Got family over tonight, so a bit unsocial to nip off for an hour on their first day ;-) That OK? Thanks. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From stickster at gmail.com Tue Dec 6 16:53:03 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 11:53:03 -0500 Subject: Can't make tonight :-( In-Reply-To: <36467.192.168.100.90.1133886150.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> References: <36467.192.168.100.90.1133886150.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Message-ID: <1133887983.3234.3.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-12-06 at 16:22 +0000, Gavin Henry wrote: > Dear Guys, > > Got family over tonight, so a bit unsocial to nip off for an hour on their > first day ;-) > > That OK? > > Thanks. AFAIC, no problem. My thinking is, you don't volunteer for family, they come first. :-) Have fun! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Dec 6 22:55:53 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 06 Dec 2005 22:55:53 +0000 Subject: IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 6 December 2005 Message-ID: <1133909753.2807.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> (21:14:34) quaid: (21:14:43) quaid: hi megacoder, slow down! (21:15:03) megacoder: Yeah, I can't type so fgast anyomre (21:16:42) quaid: so, we broke f.r.c today, but only enough to send error messages (21:16:54) gregdek: We did? (21:17:00) quaid: sorry if you are getting them, we're working on it on #fedora-websites (21:17:06) quaid: hi gregdek, yeah, but not visually (21:17:10) quaid: the content is all live (21:17:26) quaid: some php is erroring, and that's what I know (21:17:32) ***gregdek hrms. (21:17:39) stickster: I saw messages about widgets.inc (21:17:44) quaid: yeah, those (21:18:01) quaid: gregdek: got a shell on f.r.c? sopwith is out of pocket today (21:18:08) gregdek: OK, so they're showing up in the error log but nowhere else? (21:18:28) ***gregdek looks to see if he has a shell of f.r.c he's forgotten about... (21:18:32) quaid: PHP Warning: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() in /var/fedorascratch/LIVE-2005-12-06-16.15/tmp/include/widgets.inc on line 85 (21:18:36) quaid: X3 (21:18:46) quaid: uh, so (21:18:51) quaid: I don't want to take over this meeting with that problem (21:18:59) gregdek: No shell, sorry. (21:19:05) quaid: so, gregdek, can you drop over to #fedora-websites for any insight (21:19:33) quaid: which segues into ... (21:19:40) quaid: new content on f.r.c, new logo (21:19:56) quaid: stuff is moved, more stuff was moved, cruft was removed (21:20:15) quaid: the (now) /About/Projects/{projectname}.php pages need updating (21:20:19) quaid: iirc (21:20:39) stickster: I got your mail about review of the material but have had zero time for FDP this week, sorry (21:20:50) quaid: I mean, here: (21:20:55) quaid: http://fedora.redhat.com/About/Projects/selinux.html (21:21:02) quaid: "Security-enhanced Linux (SELinux)is a patch of the Linux? kernel and a number of utilities with enhanced security functionality ..." (21:21:12) quaid: I have to change that right now, but still, that's embarassing (21:21:19) quaid: it hasn't been a patch since 2.4 kernel (21:21:25) gregdek: Heh. (21:21:32) quaid: actually (21:21:39) quaid: someone who is not me needs to own that page (21:21:46) stickster: Disco (21:22:08) stickster: You got a nibble on SELinux last week methinks... I answered onlist, did you follow up with the contributor? (21:22:36) stickster: Oh, I see you did (21:22:37) quaid: yes (21:22:38) stickster: nm :-) (21:22:47) quaid: yeah, he has CVS access and seems motivated (21:22:55) quaid: I'm hoping we see a commit within the week :) (21:25:01) quaid: hi (21:25:04) quaid: my name is quaid (21:25:09) quaid: and I am very distractable today (21:25:15) ***quaid seeks comfort in task list (21:25:30) quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule (21:25:32) quaid: *ah* (21:25:44) quaid: how is everyone, btw? (21:25:52) quaid: any complaints? (21:26:11) stickster: peachy, just very busy (21:27:29) quaid: ok, I moved the first item to the bottom (21:27:37) quaid: at stickster's suggestion from last week (21:27:40) stickster: :-) (21:27:41) quaid: as it is stalled for now (21:28:08) quaid: so, anything up with DocsRawhide? (21:28:15) quaid: do we have any RFEs? (21:28:19) megacoder: Stalled, but is there any hope of action any time soon? (21:28:26) quaid: ok (21:28:36) ***quaid looks for an email, one sec (21:29:02) quaid: http://wiki.apache.org/xmlgraphics/GnuClasspathCompatibility (21:29:19) quaid: " (21:29:19) quaid: The Apaches have bought into fixing Batik so it will run on GNU (21:29:19) quaid: Classpath based VMs. This was a precondition to getting FOP working. I (21:29:19) quaid: think they've started checking in their mods." (21:29:28) quaid: "Once they've cleaned up Batik, I think the only thing left is for (21:29:28) quaid: somebody (Tom Fitzsimmons probably) to implement java.awt.BasicStroke (21:29:28) quaid: (on top of Cairo). I still don't think this will be done in time for (21:29:28) quaid: FC5, but the wheels are in motion and it's certain to be ready shortly (21:29:28) quaid: afterwards. (21:29:29) quaid: " (21:29:42) quaid: that is what I have latest, as of 24 Nov. (21:30:12) megacoder: This is good news. (21:32:04) quaid: there! see I didn't know I had good news (21:32:13) quaid: the only part I got was the last sentence, so I was bummed. (21:33:52) megacoder: I learned a long time ago that for a sentence like "Yes, but only if blah, blah", my boss quit listening after the "yes". Never did that again. (21:34:27) quaid: <-- blah blah blah blah not in time for FC5 (21:35:21) stickster: gregdek: if I comment out the line "unset $item," the page loads (on my local mirror) (21:35:28) megacoder: Even bad breath is better than no breath at all. This means it can happen sooner or later. I'd have rather had sooner. (21:35:40) quaid: aye (21:36:29) quaid: ok, I threw in that URL to watch on the schedule (21:36:33) quaid: and on to DocsRawhide (21:37:09) quaid: hmm ... time to start an RFE thread on f-docs-l? (21:37:14) quaid: or just discuss here first? (21:38:15) elliss: The list is probably better (21:38:26) elliss: The clock is running here... (21:39:02) stickster: everything on the list that doesn't need authority/decision, IMHO (21:39:41) quaid: ok, we solved the draft issue, so on we go (21:40:15) quaid: ya'll need anything for the packaging? (21:40:19) quaid: any heads we can bust? (21:40:41) stickster: Yes, Father Time please (21:40:44) quaid: I tried to get some attention from folks I figured were downstream consumers here at RH, so their silence now means consent. (21:40:59) stickster: I am working during this meeting because it's the first chance I've had since last Tues (21:41:18) ***quaid hurries up so stickster can get more packaging donw (21:41:25) stickster: :-D (21:41:35) quaid: about beat writers ... that's really about contributors ... and recruiting (21:41:50) quaid: I'm on a push now to change the culture in developers ... to be one of content contributors (21:41:53) megacoder: stickster; I can help some if I know what you want. (21:42:04) quaid: so, that's the thing to think about (21:42:05) stickster: I'm not sure I do know, which is part of the problem (21:42:14) stickster: But I am working through it with my therapist (21:42:37) quaid: how to help developers be content contributors (21:42:43) megacoder: quaid: even if the developers could contribute sticky notes, that would be a help. (21:43:00) quaid: if you get inspired, write up ideas on list so we can pursue them (21:43:27) megacoder: ah, teach me to contribute ;-) (21:43:44) quaid: stickster: what do you think about the email you Cc:d me on re: licensing? (21:44:04) stickster: What were we waiting on to make an announcement? (21:44:06) stickster: FF? (21:44:19) quaid: *sigh* (21:44:21) quaid: yeah (21:44:28) stickster: crap (21:44:50) quaid: well (21:44:53) quaid: it's the FF's licensing policy (21:45:00) quaid: we are being handed (21:45:06) quaid: not to say we didn't have input, but here it is (21:45:14) quaid: so it made sense that way, to wait (21:45:16) quaid: gregdek: help (21:46:49) quaid: stickster: I'll see what I can figure out (21:46:53) ***quaid moves onward (21:46:58) quaid: MoinMoin2DBXML (21:47:26) quaid: I'm trying to rustle up a technical resource to contribute to this effort, more when I hear more. (21:48:03) quaid: the problem is the NIH v. the download, install, patch, explode, repeat (DIPER) (21:48:35) quaid: I'm seeing that our approach when it comes to Web services is ... uh ... very selective. Which is good, but slow. (21:49:22) elliss: Would it help if access for this service was more restricted ? (21:49:23) quaid: so, I figure, for now, I'm going to be manually updating the XML from the Wiki XML (21:49:49) quaid: not if it's Web facing in any way, I reckon? (21:49:51) quaid: I don't know, really (21:50:09) elliss: Every contributor has to give an IP address (21:50:20) elliss: With the CLA signup (21:50:25) quaid: it's just that our onus is higher ... we aren't some small project, like, Apache has to develop and host on Apache stuff, right? (21:50:59) quaid: so whatever we choose has to become part of who we are, etc. ... I feel like that is as much at stake as the straight security. (21:51:29) quaid: elliss: too restrictive, for what gain? (21:51:29) elliss: I think that Docs drafting is a separate service to Wiki and Website (21:51:37) quaid: does it hide interfaces enough? (21:52:37) elliss: If a PHP solution for this is much more functional, but security is the key problem... (21:53:47) elliss: Then restricting the access via IP is one way of addressing the issue (21:54:33) quaid: yes, i guess so, but at a high restriction ... (21:54:44) quaid: I think too high, but I have nothing to do the risk analysis with (21:54:58) megacoder: Some folks don't have fixed IP addresses. Why not just give login access to the server is question? Admit them all and let Linux sort it out. (21:55:20) megacoder: Then accept only local changes. (21:55:29) quaid: ah (21:55:30) quaid: hmm (21:55:46) quaid: or a shell so they could setup an ssh tunnel (21:55:54) quaid: and then expose the PHP to localhost only :) (21:56:01) megacoder: yup (21:56:22) megacoder: I like gordian knot "solutions" ;-) (21:56:23) quaid: instant private network (21:58:25) quaid: ok, we'll throw that ideer into the pot. (21:58:44) quaid: anything else? (21:58:52) quaid: remainder of time to AOB (21:59:06) stickster: AOB - contributor checkup (21:59:34) stickster: I got 2 answers out of 6 queries, one "I'll be there soon!" and one "You folks aren't using a good license, so I'm stuck" (22:00:03) stickster: I followed up on the latter obviously, more as I find out (22:00:08) stickster: Anyone else do their duty? (22:01:49) elliss: I had a conversation with two of the people on the list (22:02:13) elliss: They're setting up a Website with nman64 (22:02:27) stickster: ? (22:02:47) elliss: fedoraunity.org (22:03:07) elliss: To pull together various community resources (22:03:31) stickster: With all due respect to everyone involved, I'm not sure what signal that's supposed to send... another website to do what? (22:03:52) stickster: quoting from the site: (22:04:00) stickster: The Fedora Unity project has been created by concerned peers in the Fedora Community to fulfill the need to bring unity to the Community. These are members of the Community who want to see the best content find its way into the hands of the Community. Members may include site maintainers, Fedora Project contributors, and interested users. (22:04:44) quaid: my feeling is, it is a channel for energy that Fedora is unable to use. (22:04:58) elliss: Agree (22:05:31) elliss: There are a number of sites around run by individuals (22:05:39) quaid: and always will be (22:05:40) stickster: My question (a serious one, not snarky) is, why are we unable to use that energy? What are we doing wrong? Or alternately, what barriers still exist? (22:05:42) ***quaid hopes (22:06:01) quaid: stickster: some of it is still that, some is encumberance due to RHAT, US laws, etc. (22:06:13) quaid: stickster: some is just that it is never possible to be an umbrella for all activity (22:06:26) quaid: nor should Fedora try to be the Borg :) (22:06:41) stickster: We don't want to try and snarf up everything obviously, but I just hope that we aren't ignoring or missing barriers that could be lowered or removed (22:06:54) quaid: I don't think so (22:06:59) nman64: Unity's goals are largely shared with the Fedora Project. Hopes are that it might eventually become an official project. (22:07:01) quaid: the ppl involved in those sites are right here (22:07:08) quaid: so they make us aware of those barriers (22:07:35) nman64: The people organizing it are people who work with the external community sites. They want to act as middlemen to bring the external and internal resources together. (22:07:37) stickster: OK, my only point being that people aren't turning there out of discouragement at the official projects (22:07:46) quaid: well, some may be (22:07:49) quaid: that's another thing (22:07:57) quaid: there will _always_ be the disenfranchised (22:07:57) stickster: Sorry, that should have read "...being that *I hope* people..." (22:08:11) quaid: due to assholes who make them feel bad, or personal attitude (22:08:12) nman64: No, Bob and Scott are doing what they know, and then later worrying about bringing it under the FP umbrella. (22:08:18) quaid: unofficial projects give them a way to contribute (22:08:36) quaid: and get their ideas filtered through those who _can_ be involved in the community without giving or taking offense enough to leave :) (22:08:48) BobJensen left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). (22:09:11) quaid: so, projects like this allow those people to remain involved and still feed their personal demons (22:09:25) quaid: some people just can't stand mixing their rebellion with processes and procedures :) (22:09:30) stickster: Well, an example is that one of the first things I saw there was a network installation guide that seemed like a repetittion of 90% of the info in the install guide... fortunately the author filed a bug so we could address it, but that seems like wasted energy to me (22:10:31) stickster: I'm not advocating control over this info... probably I'm just scratching my head at the inefficiency (22:10:44) stickster: But OTOH, whatever floats people's boats (22:10:54) nman64: Unity wants to gather what information it can from the many external sites and bring it into FDP. They also want to work with FDP to bring direct improvements. For example, Bob was beginning to work last night on helping Ignacio improve the packaging guide. (22:11:15) EvilBob: Hi Guys (22:11:21) EvilBob is now known as BobJensen (22:12:07) nman64: BobJensen: Good timing. (22:12:29) BobJensen: I don't have a lot of time we have Soldiers coming home today (22:12:50) megacoder: Hooray! (22:12:54) BobJensen: let me scroll back and catch up (22:13:26) nman64: megacoder: Do you mean hoorah or hooah? ;-) (22:13:50) megacoder: Well, I was trying to translate "hot d*mn"! (22:14:44) ***nman64 wonders how many people in here understand the significance of 'hoorah' (Marines) and 'hooah' (Army). (22:15:15) stickster: I live near Quantico and have a boss who went to West Point ;-) (22:16:26) BobJensen: I would be glad to answer any questions aboutt he goals of our FedoraUnity project that any one has (22:17:10) BobJensen: The project is building gaining speed and attention (22:17:50) stickster: Any other AOB then? (22:18:26) BobJensen: AOB? (22:18:26) stickster: BobJensen: Just to clarify or reiterate, I guess I'm not sure what the need is that drove the site, but I'm willing to sit back and be convinced over time (22:18:27) stickster: :-) (22:18:36) quaid: all other business (22:18:38) quaid: all done? (22:18:46) megacoder: bye (22:18:55) quaid: -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Dec 13 20:15:26 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 15:15:26 -0500 Subject: Absentee Message-ID: <1134504926.9048.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Sorry gang, I can't make it to the meeting today, I am swamped at work. I'll look for the notes to catch up. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Dec 13 22:34:27 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 13 Dec 2005 22:34:27 +0000 Subject: IRC Log FDSCo Meeting Dec 13 2005 Message-ID: <1134513267.2802.26.camel@localhost.localdomain> (21:03:13) quaid: (21:05:12) megacoder: Welcome back TCF! (21:05:34) megacoder: Good to see your avatar ;-) (21:06:20) quaid: aye, for sure (21:06:48) quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule (21:08:01) quaid: so, let's see, a short discussion was had about DocsRawhide enhancemetns (21:08:46) quaid: the discussion quickly fell OT (21:08:47) quaid: :) (21:09:00) G2: yo (21:09:09) quaid: so, whilst we are all here (21:09:22) quaid: are there any specific things we want to ask enhanced? (21:09:31) quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule (21:09:35) quaid: oops (21:09:39) quaid: http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/ (21:09:53) quaid: the links there are relatively static, or rather, are definable by us through CVS (21:10:17) quaid: my thoughts: build error output goes where? what can we do about that? (21:10:29) quaid: builds based on specific tags or branches (21:11:07) quaid: guess that's it :) (21:11:14) G2: get an e-mail like on extras? (21:11:22) quaid: yeah (21:11:35) quaid: with a URL to stdout (21:11:37) G2: that should be fine then (21:11:47) megacoder: Are the rawhide docs considered cast-in-jello? (21:12:06) G2: build error out to a folder in the same one as "en"? (21:12:10) quaid: the builds based on branches could be defined in the file that we use to define what appears in DocsRawhide (21:12:11) megacoder: I mean, is it "normal" for a CVS checkin (interim) to break the build. (21:12:21) elliss: Nope (21:12:32) megacoder: I think just a nag email about the build failure should go the doc owner. (21:12:32) quaid: one should build before check in (21:12:32) quaid: but (21:12:40) quaid: yes, nag mail to just owner (21:12:47) quaid: or, definable in our module file (21:12:57) quaid: one should build before check in, but that is not always possible (21:13:09) quaid: this gives people a chance to edit content without a working build system, which does happen. (21:13:19) megacoder: Incremantal check-in's can make that awkward. (21:13:22) quaid: i.e., sitting on another OS or a broken toolchain locally, etc. (21:13:44) quaid: too many nags, you mean? (21:13:47) megacoder: I'm mean, build failures should be noted, but no alarums should go off. (21:13:53) quaid: oh, right (21:14:00) quaid: well, every failure will gen an email (21:14:09) quaid: but right now, I think it's building hourly (21:14:19) quaid: that's another RFE: rolling builds (21:14:29) megacoder: Shazam! Put some hysterisis on the nag! (21:15:23) quaid: hmm (21:15:23) quaid: ok (21:16:03) quaid: elliss: minutes note -- if you'll compile these RFEs into a list, we can use those as specific task request of Sopwith (21:16:17) elliss: OK (21:16:33) quaid: or ... wonder if the docsrawhide tool/script is available for us to hack upon? (21:17:00) G2: should be (21:17:02) quaid: or otherwise help :) (21:17:07) quaid: yeah, just don't know where (21:18:42) elliss: docs-common/bin/bulkbuild ? (21:19:21) elliss: Don't know if that's the live version (21:20:21) megacoder: It's not, it's there as an archive. The real script is only sopwith'able (21:20:56) Sopwith: I'm working on moving the fedora-config cvs repo to a place where more people can hack on it (e.g. nman64) (21:21:10) quaid: cool (21:21:51) quaid: and everyone knows that we have some control through docs-common/bin/active ? (21:22:39) quaid: for example, that would be where we want to add tag/branch as a configurable (21:24:36) quaid: ok, we'll compile a wish list (21:24:54) quaid: our prime usage for this is to populate places such as Docs/Drafts/ on the Wiki with links to this (21:25:07) quaid: and that sort of thing (21:25:23) quaid: I don't see it being primarily for people to just browse through the directory structure, although they can do that. (21:26:16) quaid: if there's nothing else on this? (21:28:32) quaid: alright (21:28:44) calennert left the room (quit: "heading home"). (21:29:41) quaid: Paul is unavail, megacoder any packaging stuff you want to discuss? (21:30:35) megacoder: There has been a spurt of activity about how document images are found. I've written a "bin/copy-figs" file to handle that and am currently updating the docs guide. (21:31:09) megacoder: I did see a new self intro from a guy that does java... (21:31:26) quaid: yeah, he just left ^ (21:31:48) megacoder: Was it something I said ;-) (21:31:57) quaid: maybe he {felt} the vibe (21:32:15) quaid: feel free to reply to his self-intro and show him what we are doing in those areas (21:32:45) megacoder: OK, I'll give Paul a bit more time since he usually does that. If not, I will. (21:32:52) quaid: all righty! (21:33:01) quaid: yeah, Paul the Face Man :) (21:33:20) quaid: and you are BA Barracus, I'm Hannibal Smith ... (21:33:28) megacoder: He does claim to be the handsome one. (21:33:28) quaid: anyway, moving on (21:33:48) megacoder: Gotta pick a muldoon, though. (21:34:16) quaid: nice segue, since I am about to reply to Chris Lennert and accept his taking the ServerTools beat (21:34:35) quaid: time is running toward test2 (21:34:38) quaid: we could use to fill our holes (21:34:47) quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Beats (21:34:53) megacoder: I pity the fool that tries to... wait... drop it. (21:35:51) quaid: Chris is added (21:39:18) quaid: for the record, the open slots are: (21:39:25) quaid: s/slots/beats/ (21:40:16) quaid: kernel, file systems (arguably part of kernel), DevelTools, Samba, SystemDaemons, x86 specific content, x86_64 specific content, database servers, backwards compat, and legacy (21:40:25) quaid: time for more nagmails (21:40:39) quaid: gregdek tells me that "automated guilt management" is the way to go (21:44:30) mether: quaid, legacy is different backwards compat? (21:44:42) mether: quaid, does legacy mean fedora legacy? (21:44:43) quaid: Legacy == Fedora Legacy Project ? (21:44:47) quaid: not sure, I think so (21:45:01) mether: ok do we need space for fedora extras then? (21:45:02) quaid: unclear how that fits, I forget where it came form (21:45:13) quaid: ah, yes, Extras would be a great beat (21:45:23) mether: if its fedora legacy ask ender I guess (21:45:47) quaid: ender can assign someone, perhaps (21:45:50) mether: he or anyone in the legacy build team would be better candidates (21:46:30) mether: and I heard legacy repo is going to be included enabled or disabled by default in FC5. so its fairly important. (21:46:46) mether: and for extras post to the fedora-extras list (21:46:59) mether: thl might be willing to do it (21:47:19) quaid: I'm going to cross-post :) (21:48:33) mether: I am not sure samba, database servers etc get notable enough change for every release (21:48:38) mether: to warrant a seperate beat for them (21:49:15) elliss: I guess the main issues there are compatibility breaks (21:49:17) quaid: when there is content, it should come from somewhere designated and not fall between the cracks (21:49:22) mether: is the colophon going to be included within the published release notes? (21:49:31) quaid: should be (21:49:40) quaid: did I miss that in the last one? probably did, huh (21:49:57) mether: yes it has been missed out (21:50:10) quaid: damn, that's right, it's only on the Wiki still (21:50:17) quaid: I can kick that to XML, I suppose (21:54:03) quaid: ok, nagmail being written (21:56:04) quaid: anyone had any luck with contacting SelfIntro'd people? (21:57:32) elliss: Awaiting a response on one. (21:57:51) ***quaid hasn't done any :) (21:58:20) elliss: I'd like to encourage people to look at user docs (21:58:31) quaid: I'll excuse myself, but if anyone wants to do as Paul did, feel free to Cc: me into any conversation, if I can provide the warm fuzzies from the @redhat.com side (21:59:01) elliss: Good idea (21:59:13) elliss: So I've pinged Matt Bird, who has been doing some work on the Desktop User Guide (21:59:43) quaid: yeah, cool, that's adding ideas (21:59:58) elliss: And I'll write to few more people who've expressed an interest in user docs (22:00:13) quaid: yeah, it would be great to get Matt some help (22:00:41) quaid: and it's certainly our most painful location (22:01:20) mether: what about Andrew Hudson (22:01:55) mether: Getting Started Guide hasnt got any updates for the past 2 months or so (22:02:17) elliss: mether: I wanted to talk to Matt first (22:02:34) elliss: Before approaching a professional writer (22:02:47) mether: ok (22:03:33) elliss: Didn't want to sideline him (22:08:09) elliss: That was all I was going to say :) (22:08:21) quaid: that's cool, thanks (22:08:30) quaid: that was a concern of mine, not sidelining no one (22:08:48) quaid: one note, as we end (22:09:01) quaid: we need to do some work on how to handle translation of the wiki (22:09:08) quaid: a streamlined process, as mether said (22:10:20) quaid: something we need to discuss with nman64 and other f-websites folks (22:10:35) quaid: so, let's consider, work on ideas on list, etc. (22:10:40) quaid: anything else? (22:10:42) quaid: AOB? (22:15:58) quaid: -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Dec 19 14:38:12 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 19 Dec 2005 08:38:12 -0600 Subject: Wiki->DocBook Update Message-ID: <20051219083812.6ba29997.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Hey, Ya'll! I wanted to pass around the good news. Patrick Barnes and I investigated the Wiki->XML conversion with the moin-1.3.5-2 RPM. (This is the latest stable version.) If a page generated ... output, the results would fail to validate. We've found the flaw. I have sent Matthias Saou, the RPM maintainer, a patch. Twice uttered Matthias Saou this: > Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > We'd like to be able to have the Wiki converted into DocBook, but > > moin-1.3.5 generates invalid XML in some circumstances. > > > > The attached patch (and updated SPEC file) corrects that. Please > > apply, if it looks OK to you. > > No problem, I'll update the Extras packages now, so the change should get > into the next sign/push. When the moin-1.3.5-3 RPM becomes available, if we can get THAT installed on the Wiki server then we should be able to Wiki->DocBook in a fairly automated way. MoinMoin conversion is driven by a state-change engine that knows nothing about DocBook. So, you can still generate invalid DocBook if you say, output a title (a
) that does not include any content (a ), but at least the XML is now well-formed. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue Dec 20 17:29:22 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 12:29:22 -0500 Subject: Schedule problem Message-ID: <1135099762.12125.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> There is a significant chance I might be delayed (or worse) in getting to tonight's meeting. I don't have anything significant to report, save that I am editing Tommy's recent contribution to the DocGuide and trying to get back into the mindset of packaging before next week. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue Dec 20 18:24:36 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:24:36 -0000 (GMT) Subject: Absent tonight - Family visiting (Christmas and all that) Message-ID: <33134.192.168.100.90.1135103076.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Dear Guys, Family are all over for christmas now from Ireland (Laura's half), so will be unavailable tonight. Well done Tommy though on the Docbook/Wiki news. Cheers and have a great Christmas!!!! Gavin. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From kwade at redhat.com Tue Dec 20 18:55:34 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 10:55:34 -0800 Subject: meeting cancelled, see you next year! Message-ID: <1135104934.30772.157.camel@erato.phig.org> Friends: Sorry for the late notice. I need to concentrate on work due this week before the holiday, and it sounds as if others are busy, too. I'll be in IRC and would love to talk about Wiki -> XML toolchain ideas, but that doesn't require a whole meeting. Thanks, and see you next year, Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Content Services Fedora Documentation Project http://www.redhat.com/docs http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From sopwith at redhat.com Tue Dec 20 23:26:40 2005 From: sopwith at redhat.com (Elliot Lee) Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:26:40 -0500 (EST) Subject: Forwarded mail.... Message-ID: ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Tue, 20 Dec 2005 18:24:49 -0500 (EST) From: Elliot Lee To: Greg Dekoenigsberg , sysadmin-members at fedora.redhat.com, fedora-extras-steering at redhat.com, fedora-docs-steering at redhat.com Hi all, I have remedied one of the long-standing shortcomings of the Fedora Account System - the inability to change the Role Type (user, sponsor, administrator) of group members via the web interface. If you go to the details page for each group, you can select the users you want to upgrade or downgrade, and then click the appropriate button. You must be a group administrator to upgrade/downgrade group members. This is primarily relevant for making people sponsors and such. Currently, the difference between sponsor and administrator is that administrators receive notification of sponsor actions, can edit group settings, and can upgrade/downgrade members. Comments welcome, -- Elliot Red Hat Summit Nashville (May 30 - June 2, 2006) http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/