IRC log, 17 May 2005

[Paul W. Frields]

This is the first in a series of emails to document old meetings and
make sure the wiki references have antecedents. :-)

= = = = =

<meeting>
<quaid>	so, yeah, considering the time-to-release for FC4, that should
be most of our time today in discussing anything related to that
<quaid>	to start about the release notes:
<quaid>	1. I haven't done any PR this last week, things are the same as
they were ... small team.
<quaid>	2. As many of us as can help in anyway, please do, that will
define what quality and quantity we can do in this time frame
<quaid>	3. This will all be better for FC5test1 :)
<quaid>	4. I did this to help in collaboration:
<quaid>	4.1 created bz account for relnotes at fedoraproject.org ... you
all can watch that email address (bz.r.c -> account > email and watch
that email addy)
<quaid>	4.2 this addy will go right to a pre-filled bz ticket for
filling in any release notes http://tinyurl.com/73qe
<quaid>	when a ticket is filled out, relnotes@ gets notice, that comes
to me (as the so-far single person on that list), and anyone watching it
sees it to.
<tcf>	quaid: what do you mean by clean up, do you mean HTML or editing?
<quaid>	the tickets are set to block a single master tracker bug, and
the dependency tree shows all open bugs, so we don't lose stuff and have
somewhere to discuss with developers
<quaid>	tcf: clean up?
<tcf>	quaid: you asked me about
http://people.redhat.com/sundaram/fedora_notes.html right before you
opened the meeting
<tcf>	quaid: feel free to table that until later
<quaid>	yeah, let'
<tcf>	np, sorry to interrupt ;-)
<quaid>	let's table it for a minute, it's related but not as high a
priority
<quaid>	5. next me (and Sopwith and others) will start bugging all
Fedora developers to use that tinyurl to fill out anything they want
included.
<quaid>	6. I will keep a latest version of the relnotes at
f.r.c/docs/beta for reference
<quaid>	7. I will get the relnotes module in CVS right after this
meeting.
<quaid>	so ... if anyone can help, you want to take one or more relnotes
beats and watch the bug traffic for something that lands in that
purview.
<-- ideal
<quaid>	alt is to do it as ASCII files and I will meld them together at
the final.
<quaid>	just so we don't have to learn the special DocBook tags that
create HTML that Anaconda can render.
<G2>	What's the deadline for the relnotes again?
</>
<quaid>	comments?
<quaid>	30 May at the latest
<stickster>	quaid: re: RelNotes, were you already aware of the
"non-optimal" HTML rendering in the FC4t3 release in Firefox, or does
that matter given Rahul's effort to make a more generic PR page?
<quaid>	so, 29 May to give me a day to clean up
<Sopwith>	Remember May 30 is memorial day Monday
<elliss>	Suggestion: could you file a sample XML file in the CVS
module ?
<quaid>	stickster: I was not aware, did it suck?
<stickster>	ugly fixed-font
<quaid>	stickster: and that is hard to say, depends on our efforts to
get mether's changes included
<quaid>	ah
<stickster>	no biggie
<stickster>	I can BZ it
<quaid>	elliss: we might have to, but I didn't want to give us another
hurdle.
<elliss>	It was really for the benefit of dull people like me
<quaid>	well, it's the right way, let's try it out
<quaid>	the only thing is
<quaid>	if it makes broken HTML that doesn't render, we don't have a
test left to fool around on.
<quaid>	so I may still docbook2txt and put that in instead, if we have
to.
<quaid>	stickster: don't bother with the bz, I'll close it WONTFIX :)
<stickster>	:-) k
<quaid>	i.e., the objective is to move beyond the text
<quaid>	the fact is, we may get super low input in the next week
<quaid>	meaning that taking on some of the relnotes beats could be zero
to little work.
<quaid>	Sopwith: what are the chances that we can get mether's new
Firefox default page in for FC4?  
<quaid>	the idea is to have a Fedorafied version ASAP, if possible.
<Sopwith>	quaid: The default page has historically been the relnotes. We
can definitely make the default page be anything you want.
<Sopwith>	I dunno if you want to make mether's page be the intro to the
relnotes, or have two separate pages linked to each other, or what.
<quaid>	Sopwith: this all came from a discussion on f-devel-l
<quaid>	no, just to have a "friendlier" portal page with some marketing
foo about how awesome the release is, then links to valuable info
locally and out-there
<stickster>	Including the FDP ;-)
<quaid>	yep :)
<quaid>	Sopwith: but I see what you are saying ... I could effect the
change by putting mether's page in to start the relnotes, instead of
forcing the firefox package to change.
<Sopwith>	oh, we wouldn't change the firefox package for sure.
<quaid>	well, how is that default page set?
<stickster>	Actually, it woudl be the indexhtml package I think... or is
that no longer true?  
<Sopwith>	stickster: That's now part of the fedora-release package
<stickster>	Sopwith: ah, right
<quaid>	ok, so that one is easier to change?
<Sopwith>	quaid: We'd change the contents of the default page without
changing the URL of the default page.
<Sopwith>	Right now we create the default index.html file by HTMLifying
the relnotes.
<Sopwith>	It can be whatever you want :0
<quaid>	yeah but ... then Anaconda would show that page in the sidebar,
right?
<lang> I believe)
<stickster>	Is the fedora-release package built out of the /cvs/fedora
module?
<Sopwith>	yes, from the fedora-release module.
<stickster>	That was my only question, hope no one's waiting for a
follow-up... :-)
<Sopwith>	Anyways, sorry to have distracted from the meeting - main idea
I guess is that the fedora_notes page and the relnotes can be related
however you want, but I would like it so that people can somehow get to
the relnotes from the default index.html
<quaid>	right
<quaid>	http://people.redhat.com/sundaram/fedora_notes.html
<quaid>	Technical Notes -> Release Notes?
<quaid>	so its linked right there.
<bridgehead> or something like that, methinks
<Sopwith>	cool
<Sopwith>	maybe rename it to "detailed release notes" so people looking
for the old relnotes won't get lost.
<quaid>	ok
<quaid>	so
<quaid>	the main question on the table is, what release notes beat do
each of you want to cover for this release?
<quaid>	or would you prefer me to assign them?
<quaid>	or are you all telling me to piss off and do it myself? :)
<tcf>	let me look at the latest version first
<G2>	quaid: What is lacking content and how far are each along. Sorry if
I have missed that, bu tI have Ben on my lap again ;-)
<quaid>	G2: to be honest, not entirely sure, but ...
<quaid>	ok, here is a best-status:
<stickster>	If you really need me to do one, I'll take server config
tools... but I'm a weak girlie-man so I need to devote my limited energy
to IG for right now
<quaid>	A, It's fairly sparse right now
<quaid>	B. It covers some vital items, but I'm sure it covers all
<quaid>	C. I'm afraid of a last-minute deluge
<G2>	.me wonders what stickster looks like, a girl maybe ;-)
<quaid>	oh
<quaid>	B. It covers some vital items, but I'm *not* sure it covers all
it should
<stickster>	got it :-)
<Sopwith>	A last minute deluge can be dealt with by setting the
submission deadline early enough for last-minute submissions to be
processed.
<quaid>	stickster: you already begged off last week, I remember that :)
<stickster>	a/k/a "The Scotty Principle"
<tcf>	quaid: maybe the better question is "where do you need the most
help?"
<G2>	quaid: Are we still following the "release notes beats" e-mail
order?
<tcf>	are there missing sections you would like someone to try and
wrangle up?
<G2>	tcf: yes.
<G2>	to your first question
<quaid>	G2: ues
<quaid>	yes
<quaid>	elliss: your suggestions were good for rearranging the beats
<elliss>	OK.
<G2>	quaid: Which ones do you really want. (can't answer none).
<quaid>	tcf: I have zero handle on any of the beats
<tcf>	ok, so let's go through each section and talk about them
<G2>	tcf: yes, Kernel first
<tcf>	Is
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraDocs_2fReleaseNotes_2fCore4Test1
the latest version?
<quaid>	G2: I already have Security
<quaid>	http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Beats
<quaid>	ok
<quaid>	about that
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraDocs_2fReleaseNotes_2fCore4Test1
<quaid>	it's dead
<quaid>	ok?
<tcf>	ok, thanks, that page didn't look right
<G2>	fine.
<tcf>	kernel--do we have any info on it?
<G2>	can we put "dead" on that page later
<quaid>	yeah, if I can figure out how
<quaid>	there are a metric ton of release notes wiki stuff out there
<quaid>	all of which should be marked as dead
<quaid>	anyway
<quaid>	tcf: what do you mean "info in it"?
<quaid>	as in, what needs to go in the release notes?
<quaid>	the answer is no for _all_ beats
<quaid>	unless we have personal knowledge
<quaid>	like I do for SELinux
<stickster>	stickster: Do you just need that dead page removed, or what?
<tcf>	quaid: I mean do we have any info in the current relnotes about
the kernel or a kernel developer contact
<stickster>	quaid: Do you just need that dead page removed, or what?
(Sorry)
<quaid>	tcf: yes, there are some, and there is not a trict developer
contact
<quaid>	s/trict/specific/
<quaid>	stickster: Ronny Buchmann parsed the relnotes into bunch of
pages that all #include together somehow, all done under an incorrect
namespace.
<stickster>	quaid: ah
<quaid>	so, yeah, maybe they do need to be vaped
<quaid>	we can worry about that later
<stickster>	k
<tcf>	right, I see bits of kernel info dispersed through the notes
<tcf>	doesn't look like anyone wants to be responsible for the kernel
stuff ;-)
<tcf>	I was going to volunteer for printing when we got to it
<quaid>	oh, cool
<quaid>	I forgot that there is a module
<quaid>	release-notes
<tcf>	want me to add my name next to it on the wiki page?
<quaid>	tcf: please :)
<tcf>	I can easily talk to Tim Waugh about it this week
<G2>	Development tools is a huge one!
<quaid>	yeah, many of these just need a contact with some developer(s)
and a blessing of something or knowledge there is nothing to note.
<quaid>	G2: yeah ... the beats are subject to change, and a group can
work on them
<quaid>	I am going to pound on the developers to use the tinyurl ...
<tcf>	quaid: might be able to get some info about development tools from
wcohen
<tcf>	quaid: at least the gcc and oprofile stuff
<tcf>	quaid: and kprobes
<tcf>	but I don't have a contact for the rest of the devel tools
<Sopwith>	jakub is the best person for most of the tools (e.g. gcc
glibc)
<G2>	how indepth does it need to be, just package changes etc?
<quaid>	first priority is "gotchas" anything that is a surprise and
might matter to more than a few corner cases
<quaid>	second priority is "new features"
<quaid>	third is "fixed stuff"
<quaid>	IMO
<tcf>	probably the standard stuff--major changes such as new default gcc
flags
<stickster>	Plus, you can see old x86 release notes on the f.r.c web
site under Docs -> Release Notes for guidance
<tcf>	any new gcc compile options...
<G2>	yeah
<quaid>	okay, Developer Point of Contact column is added
<tcf>	excellent
<quaid>	and Jakub is in there for devel tools
<tcf>	I haven't been following f-d-list
<tcf>	have we already tried to ask for additions like ed used to?
<tcf>	ed used to get lots of info via bugzilla
<quaid>	during the tests, yes
<Sopwith>	tcf: That's one of the things that still needs to happen for
FC4final
<quaid>	I am about to send a big note to f-devel- and internal devel
list
<tcf>	in the past, most developers have waiting until the last minute
<quaid>	right, back to my deluge :)
<tcf>	fwiw
<tcf>	ok, so we are trying to be proactive ;-)
<tcf>	gotcha *wink*
<quaid>	ok, so, you all can see the test notes from CVS and the Beats
page
<quaid>	megacoder is auditing the meeting and will be back later, I'll
ask him then
<quaid>	I just added the changes elliss suggested
<tcf>	we have 6 mins left btw
<quaid>	elliss: can you take one or more beats, just for this release
<quaid>	g2: can you take one or more beats, just for this release
<elliss>	OK.
<quaid>	I'm sending out emails today, btw
<quaid>	so hopefully we get some action
<elliss>	How can we fill in developer contacts for the other bits
<elliss>	?
<quaid>	elliss: samba? daemons?
<G2>	OK, I'll do my best. Just assign me one please. I can't pick
<elliss>	Any, really.
<quaid>	Sopwith can likely provide guidance
<stickster>	Do both and earn the unending gratitude of quaid 
<--	ignacio has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
<quaid>	ok, I'm going to do this
<Sopwith>	If you are working on a section and need a contact, please
e-mail me (sopwith at redhat.com) and I'll do my best to put you in touch
right away.
<elliss>	Thanks.
<G2>	Cheers Sopwith 
<quaid>	I'm going to clean up that page and fill in some of us
<quaid>	I'll send email when I'm done
<quaid>	if you can't do what I put you under, let me know
<quaid>	no worries, this isn't that big of a thing
<quaid>	I just want to do a better job than I've been doing solo
<quaid>	yep
<quaid>	ok, anything else?
<quaid>	cool
</meeting>


-- 
Paul W. Frields, RHCE                          http://paul.frields.org/
  gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233  5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
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