From s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk Sun May 1 13:50:14 2005 From: s.ellis at fastmail.co.uk (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 14:50:14 +0100 Subject: Install Guide in CVS In-Reply-To: <1114884659.5016.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1114884659.5016.16.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1114955414.12662.233110945@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 14:10:59 -0400, "Paul W. Frields" said: > The upshot is, Stuart's newest Installation Guide is up in CVS now. > Hope this doesn't step on anyone's toes. I just happened to have some > free time before I head out of town this evening, and wanted to Do Some > Good. Since fedora-docs-commits is still in questionable shape, I > figured this was the best way to let folks know. I wasn't sure this > needed to go to f-docs-l yet, but if anyone wants to forward it, have at > it. For those not on the relevent CC lists - the EditorAssignments Wiki page and docs in progress tracking bug have been updated. -- Stuart Ellis From jwel_flower at yahoo.co.jp Sun May 1 15:01:31 2005 From: jwel_flower at yahoo.co.jp (=?ISO-2022-JP?B?GyRCNVxCPBsoQg==?=) Date: Sun, 1 May 2005 11:01:31 -0400 Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?b?GyRCRnM/TSRHJGJCZz5mSVckRyQ5JCshKRsoQg==?= Message-ID: <200505011501.j41F1VMT011676@mx1.redhat.com> ??????????????? ???????????????????? ????????????????? ????????23??28?????????????3P?????????? ????1?????????????????49????????? ????1????????????????????? ????????????????????????? ???????????????????????? ????????????????????????? ???????????????????????? 3P??????????????????? ???????????????????????????? ????????????????????????????? ????????? ???????????????????? From stuart at elsn.org Sun May 1 21:56:09 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 22:56:09 +0100 Subject: Requirements for new writers and editors Message-ID: <1114984569.13173.12.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> I've now written this up to try to pull the different bits together: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject_2fNewWriters (Original page name left in place because I couldn't think of a better one). Aside from the various lists and accounts we also have the writers and editors pages on the Wiki: Writers: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject_2fWriters Editors: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject_2fEditors Should writers and editors request a Wiki login as a matter of course, or should we be maintaining these as new people SelfIntroduce ? -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From anthony at hipub.net Tue May 3 17:38:57 2005 From: anthony at hipub.net (anthony at hipub.net) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 17:38:57 GMT Subject: Strategic Alliance Message-ID: Perhaps you already know, we help companies "Go Public". The President of our company is a securities and corporate lawyer. Please visit our site to receive information regarding how any company can go public. We have several research reports available on this subject. If you are aware of a company that may be suitable for this please let us know. We are happy for you to be amply rewarded for your assistance. The Benefits of being a public company are many. It is a valuable and powerful tool in achieving your goals. We look forward to developing a long-term business relationship with you. All the best, S. Anthony http://www.hipub.net/ #CSGTD-WOW We also have newsletters for you. P.S. If you prefer to not hear from us any more, email us with no longer in the subject. takeoff at hipub.net 8721 Santa Monica Blvd. No. 359 Los Angeles, CA 90069 From gdk at redhat.com Tue May 3 17:40:56 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 13:40:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Strategic Alliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I anxiously await the impending IPO of the Fedora documentation project. Best of luck to you all. --g (p.s. isn't this list moderated?) _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan Red Hat Summit ] [ New Orleans ] [ Learn. Network. Experience Open Source. June 1/2/3 2005 ] [ (And Make Your Boss Pay For It.) [ http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ On Tue, 3 May 2005 anthony at hipub.net wrote: > Perhaps you already know, we help companies "Go Public". The President > of our company is a securities and corporate lawyer. > > Please visit our site to receive information regarding how any company > can go public. We have several research reports available on this > subject. > > If you are aware of a company that may be suitable for this please let > us know. We are happy for you to be amply rewarded for your assistance. > > The Benefits of being a public company are many. It is a valuable and > powerful tool in achieving your goals. > > We look forward to developing a long-term business relationship with > you. > > All the best, > > S. Anthony > http://www.hipub.net/ > > > > #CSGTD-WOW > We also have newsletters for you. > P.S. If you prefer to not hear from us any more, email us with no longer in the subject. > takeoff at hipub.net > > > > > 8721 Santa Monica Blvd. No. 359 Los Angeles, CA 90069 > > -- > fedora-dsco-list mailing list > fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-dsco-list > From pfrields at fbi.gov Tue May 3 17:54:12 2005 From: pfrields at fbi.gov (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 13:54:12 -0400 Subject: test Message-ID: <1115142852.4515.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> test From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue May 3 18:16:05 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 19:16:05 +0100 Subject: Strategic Alliance In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200505031916.06047.ghenry@suretecsystems.com> On Tuesday 03 May 2005 18:40, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote: > I anxiously await the impending IPO of the Fedora documentation project. > Best of luck to you all. I should become a millionaire from this. > --g > > (p.s. isn't this list moderated?) > > _____________________ ____________________________________________ > Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have > Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the > Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the > ] [ dumb. --mcluhan > Red Hat Summit ] [ > New Orleans ] [ Learn. Network. Experience Open Source. > June 1/2/3 2005 ] [ (And Make Your Boss Pay For It.) > [ http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ > > On Tue, 3 May 2005 anthony at hipub.net wrote: > > Perhaps you already know, we help companies "Go Public". The President > > of our company is a securities and corporate lawyer. > > > > Please visit our site to receive information regarding how any company > > can go public. We have several research reports available on this > > subject. > > > > If you are aware of a company that may be suitable for this please let > > us know. We are happy for you to be amply rewarded for your assistance. > > > > The Benefits of being a public company are many. It is a valuable and > > powerful tool in achieving your goals. > > > > We look forward to developing a long-term business relationship with > > you. > > > > All the best, > > > > S. Anthony > > http://www.hipub.net/ > > > > > > > > #CSGTD-WOW > > We also have newsletters for you. > > P.S. If you prefer to not hear from us any more, email us with no longer > > in the subject. takeoff at hipub.net > > > > > > > > > > 8721 Santa Monica Blvd. No. 359 Los Angeles, CA 90069 > > > > -- > > fedora-dsco-list mailing list > > fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-dsco-list > > -- > fedora-dsco-list mailing list > fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-dsco-list -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue May 3 18:18:39 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 19:18:39 +0100 Subject: test In-Reply-To: <1115142852.4515.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1115142852.4515.19.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200505031918.39817.ghenry@suretecsystems.com> On Tuesday 03 May 2005 18:54, Paul W. Frields wrote: > test I never got this, could you resend ;-) > > -- > fedora-dsco-list mailing list > fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-dsco-list -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 3 18:33:44 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 11:33:44 -0700 Subject: Agenda 03-May-2005 Message-ID: <1115145224.18840.52.camel@erato.phig.org> Short meeting today. I have an earliest-I-could-get doctor appointment at 1:30 my times, so I have to cut out after about 20 minutes. Sorry. :) The meeting can continue without me, and I'll capture the buffer later when I get back, if you wish. 0. Misc./Open - This is first in case there is something we need to discuss as a group while I am present. 1. CVS - No new applications, one pending denied due to lack of activity - We want to move everything up one level 2. Doc Guide - Status check - Style guidelines posted 3. Process update - Writers assignment improvements - Tracking of open docs 4. Misc. Remainder -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue May 3 22:31:08 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 17:31:08 -0500 Subject: Fedora Docs Project Schedule page created Message-ID: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> I've stolen, er, open-sourced the Extras project schedule wiki and filed off the serial numbers, as requested. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule feel free to add your current activities before I announce on the f-docs-l. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue May 3 23:23:31 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 00:23:31 +0100 Subject: Fedora Docs Project Schedule page created In-Reply-To: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1115162611.8074.2.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> On Tue, 2005-05-03 at 17:31 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > I've stolen, er, open-sourced the Extras project schedule wiki and > filed off the serial numbers, as requested. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule > > feel free to add your current activities before I announce on the > f-docs-l. Does this totally replace: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject_2fMasterTasks ? -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 3 23:42:04 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 03 May 2005 16:42:04 -0700 Subject: Fedora Docs Project Schedule page created In-Reply-To: <1115162611.8074.2.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> References: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115162611.8074.2.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> Message-ID: <1115163724.18840.62.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 00:23 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > On Tue, 2005-05-03 at 17:31 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > I've stolen, er, open-sourced the Extras project schedule wiki and > > filed off the serial numbers, as requested. > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule > > > > feel free to add your current activities before I announce on the > > f-docs-l. > > Does this totally replace: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject_2fMasterTasks If the Master Tasks list is a giant overview of all major tasks and their important dependencies, then the schedule is a collection of the actual sub-tasks/deliverables from the Master Tasks, aka Big List. This is just an idea. What do you think? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From gdk at redhat.com Wed May 4 00:14:00 2005 From: gdk at redhat.com (Greg DeKoenigsberg) Date: Tue, 3 May 2005 20:14:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Fedora Docs Project Schedule page created In-Reply-To: <1115163724.18840.62.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115162611.8074.2.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <1115163724.18840.62.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: In Extras-land, we don't really distinguish, although maybe we should. I created the Fedora Extras Schedule explicitly as a tactical mechanism for "getting stuff done". Tasks, dates, names. Accountability. So far for us has significantly increased the likelihood of things getting done -- and over time, if people *aren't* getting things done, it serves as a gentle prod to either get them moving or get them out of the way. --g _____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan Red Hat Summit ] [ New Orleans ] [ Learn. Network. Experience Open Source. June 1/2/3 2005 ] [ (And Make Your Boss Pay For It.) [ http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/ On Tue, 3 May 2005, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 00:23 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > > On Tue, 2005-05-03 at 17:31 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > > I've stolen, er, open-sourced the Extras project schedule wiki and > > > filed off the serial numbers, as requested. > > > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule > > > > > > feel free to add your current activities before I announce on the > > > f-docs-l. > > > > Does this totally replace: > > > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject_2fMasterTasks > > If the Master Tasks list is a giant overview of all major tasks and > their important dependencies, then the schedule is a collection of the > actual sub-tasks/deliverables from the Master Tasks, aka Big List. > > This is just an idea. What do you think? > > - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Red Hat SELinux Guide > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ > From stuart at elsn.org Wed May 4 10:22:48 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 11:22:48 +0100 Subject: Fedora Docs Project Schedule page created In-Reply-To: References: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115162611.8074.2.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <1115163724.18840.62.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1115202168.4234.233335170@webmail.messagingengine.com> On Tue, 3 May 2005 20:14:00 -0400 (EDT), "Greg DeKoenigsberg" said: > > In Extras-land, we don't really distinguish, although maybe we should. > > I created the Fedora Extras Schedule explicitly as a tactical mechanism > for "getting stuff done". OK, so our MasterTasks is more broad strategic /goals/, whilst specific /tasks/ should go on the Schedule. For example, "Have complete support documentation for deploying FC" would be a project goal, whilst "complete existing Installation Guide document" is a specific task with owners. Am I on the right line ? -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed May 4 14:18:16 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 09:18:16 -0500 Subject: Fedora Docs Project Schedule page created In-Reply-To: <1115202168.4234.233335170@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115162611.8074.2.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <1115163724.18840.62.camel@erato.phig.org> <1115202168.4234.233335170@webmail.messagingengine.com> Message-ID: <20050504091816.6895fcac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Stuart Ellis" , spake thus: > OK, so our MasterTasks is more broad strategic /goals/, whilst specific > /tasks/ should go on the Schedule. For example, "Have complete support > documentation for deploying FC" would be a project goal, whilst > "complete existing Installation Guide document" is a specific task with > owners. > > Am I on the right line ? That is how I look at it. The "MasterTasks" enumerates goals and directions, whilst the "FedoaDocsSchedule" itemizes each measurable activity: sort of like a work breakdown structure. HTH -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Wed May 4 14:22:36 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Wed, 4 May 2005 15:22:36 +0100 (BST) Subject: All writers and potential writers list Message-ID: <63929.193.195.148.66.1115216556.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Dear all, I've just spent the past two hours or so getting together a list of all the Self-Introductions, (which I haven't even done yet ;-) ), and I have found lots of people that volunteered, but never did an intro. The list is below with urls and year. What I want to know is if I should only list on: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocProject_2fContributors the Self-Intro people? I would like us to drop the other volunteers an e-mail to see if they are still interested, as some date back to 2003. Thoughts? List: Christian Huegel (2003) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2003-November/msg00012.html Bruce Martin (2003) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2003-November/msg00001.html Joost Soeterbroek (2003) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2003-December/msg00093.html Daniel Gonzalez (2003) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2003-December/msg00070.html Mike MacCana (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-February/msg00022.html Karsten Wade (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-March/msg00005.html Sulyok P?ter (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-May/msg00040.html Marc Bruggeman (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-May/msg00039.html Brad Smith (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-June/msg00041.html Laurel Kline (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-June/msg00037.html Mark Johnson (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-August/msg00288.html Stuart Ellis (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-August/msg00256.html Tom Large (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-August/msg00074.html Vladimir Djokic (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-September/msg00152.html Binh Nguyen (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-September/msg00076.html Kevin H. Hobbs (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-October/msg00016.html Basil Copeland (2004) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-December/msg00002.html Mayank Sharma (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-January/msg00014.html Gustavo Seabra (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-March/msg00084.html Duncan Lithgow (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-March/msg00083.html Charles C Heselton (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00323.html Thomas R. Jones (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00322.html Eric Jon Rostetter (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00320.html Gareth Russell (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00307.html Rahul Sundaram (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00305.html William Hoffmann (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00183.html Michael Kearey (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00142.html Tommy Reynolds (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00068.html Ronny Buchmann (2005) http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00046.html And let's not forget Paul W. Frields and Tammy Fox. Have I missed anyone else? Some of these might be the same person. So that makes a total of: 31 Authors/Writers (including Paul, Tammy, me and the potentials.) That's not too bad!!! -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 4 14:43:42 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 07:43:42 -0700 Subject: Fedora Docs Project Schedule page created In-Reply-To: <20050504091816.6895fcac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115162611.8074.2.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> <1115163724.18840.62.camel@erato.phig.org> <1115202168.4234.233335170@webmail.messagingengine.com> <20050504091816.6895fcac.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1115217822.31184.4.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 09:18 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Stuart Ellis" , spake thus: > > > OK, so our MasterTasks is more broad strategic /goals/, whilst specific > > /tasks/ should go on the Schedule. For example, "Have complete support > > documentation for deploying FC" would be a project goal, whilst > > "complete existing Installation Guide document" is a specific task with > > owners. > > > > Am I on the right line ? > > That is how I look at it. The "MasterTasks" enumerates goals and > directions, whilst the "FedoaDocsSchedule" itemizes each measurable > activity: sort of like a work breakdown structure. "By God, I think we've got it!" I made a new page, DocsProject/Goals, populated it with in-progress-of- being-rewritten content from MasterTasks, and set a #redirect DocsProject/Goals on MasterTasks Sorry about the confusion. I got off on a task of listing all the tasks, and got them mixed up with goals. :) It is a -bit- of a misnomer to call our task list a schedule, but at least it is common across projects, and if it serves purpose, why complain? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 4 14:53:57 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 07:53:57 -0700 Subject: All writers and potential writers list In-Reply-To: <63929.193.195.148.66.1115216556.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> References: <63929.193.195.148.66.1115216556.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Message-ID: <1115218438.31184.13.camel@erato.phig.org> On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 15:22 +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > Dear all, > > I've just spent the past two hours or so getting together a list of all > the Self-Introductions, (which I haven't even done yet ;-) ), and I have > found lots of people that volunteered, but never did an intro. > > The list is below with urls and year. What I want to know is if I should > only list on: > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocProject_2fContributors > > the Self-Intro people? For now, yeah. You can list the FDSCo members, and leave the link to the Self-Intro blank. The idea is to *generally* make our reality follow our process. For example, Sarah Wang, who leads the translation team, applied for cvsdocs access. For me, she needs no introduction, she is someone we _want_ to have access to CVS, and if she gets active in /cvs/docs or etc., I'll ask her to do a self-intro so everyone in the project is familiar with her. > I would like us to drop the other volunteers an e-mail to see if they are > still interested, as some date back to 2003. Can you divide the list of "status unknown" people by seven, and randomly assign members of the FDSCo as contact people? We can then each send out unique emails based on the person's interest. First we want to put together a list of points-to-make and useful URLs. Otherwise open to suggestions. Thanks - Karsten > Thoughts? > > List: > > Christian Huegel (2003) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2003-November/msg00012.html > > Bruce Martin (2003) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2003-November/msg00001.html > > Joost Soeterbroek (2003) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2003-December/msg00093.html > > Daniel Gonzalez (2003) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2003-December/msg00070.html > > Mike MacCana (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-February/msg00022.html > > Karsten Wade (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-March/msg00005.html > > Sulyok P?ter (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-May/msg00040.html > > Marc Bruggeman (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-May/msg00039.html > > Brad Smith (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-June/msg00041.html > > Laurel Kline (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-June/msg00037.html > > Mark Johnson (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-August/msg00288.html > > Stuart Ellis (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-August/msg00256.html > > Tom Large (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-August/msg00074.html > > Vladimir Djokic (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-September/msg00152.html > > Binh Nguyen (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-September/msg00076.html > > Kevin H. Hobbs (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-October/msg00016.html > > Basil Copeland (2004) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004-December/msg00002.html > > Mayank Sharma (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-January/msg00014.html > > Gustavo Seabra (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-March/msg00084.html > > Duncan Lithgow (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-March/msg00083.html > > Charles C Heselton (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00323.html > > Thomas R. Jones (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00322.html > > Eric Jon Rostetter (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00320.html > > Gareth Russell (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00307.html > > Rahul Sundaram (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00305.html > > William Hoffmann (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00183.html > > Michael Kearey (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00142.html > > Tommy Reynolds (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00068.html > > Ronny Buchmann (2005) > http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2005-April/msg00046.html > > > And let's not forget Paul W. Frields and Tammy Fox. > > Have I missed anyone else? > > Some of these might be the same person. So that makes a total of: > > 31 Authors/Writers (including Paul, Tammy, me and the potentials.) > > That's not too bad!!! > -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tfox at redhat.com Wed May 4 15:31:02 2005 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 11:31:02 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Project Schedule page created In-Reply-To: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1115220662.5809.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Tommy, Thanks for setting this up. I created an account and tried to add my tasks, but it said I didn't have permission to edit the page. Tammy On Tue, 2005-05-03 at 17:31 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > I've stolen, er, open-sourced the Extras project schedule wiki and > filed off the serial numbers, as requested. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule > > feel free to add your current activities before I announce on the > f-docs-l. > > Cheers > -- > fedora-dsco-list mailing list > fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-dsco-list From stickster at gmail.com Wed May 4 18:02:57 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Wed, 04 May 2005 14:02:57 -0400 Subject: Fedora Docs Project Schedule page created In-Reply-To: <1115220662.5809.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20050503173108.2e3da712.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115220662.5809.5.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1115229777.4495.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2005-05-04 at 11:31 -0400, Tammy Fox wrote: > Thanks for setting this up. I created an account and tried to add my > tasks, but it said I didn't have permission to edit the page. You should be able to now; I added you to the EditGroup. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 5 22:58:19 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 15:58:19 -0700 Subject: minutes/log for 03 May 2005 meeting Message-ID: <1115333900.25043.19.camel@erato.phig.org> Working on a new format for the minutes, based on Tammy's suggestion and Colin's format, and will send those to f-docs-l and f-announce. Sorry about the double-scheduling today, I have to leave in 20 minutes for a Dr. app't, I'll leave the meeting open and just say "bbl" so the conversation can continue. OK? And on to the first item. * quaid exercises the Power of Paste is there anything new that we want to discuss while all here, that is not on the agenda? Nothing pressing here just making sure I forgot nothing in the agenda, didn't put a tonne of thought into it :) ok, then Hi everyone * quaid forgot that part Hi all Howdy so, no one has asked for CVS access yet outside of this group ... not sure how to take that ... :) I'm confused on this go ahead The process rules say that CVS is for working on active docs Outside this committee there are only a couple of authors I never got one reply to my Fedora Forum post. active authors? With docs posted to the list Lots of people say they would write on Self Intros that -can- be good enough example is the sEcurity series Sure I think people just need to find the time. the outline he gave + self-intro seems tofulfill the requirement Check the other intros tho people are probably waiting until they have something to commit to request access probably re: tcf's comment... That's what many of us did when we started Should we have a Wiki of self-intros? Maybe we should stress that they can commit anything it might help to send individual emails to those with recent self intros Just to show activity? People don't seem clear what to write (from Self Intros) megacoder: at least with links to the mail archives Is this list archved outside of RH? probably megacoder: It can be mirrored anywhere... is it? dunno gmane remember the guy griping about that onn all the lists recently? Me? Remeber? Ha! oh, right G2: We have to have a modicum of care about docs "thrown over the wall" Don't want a cvs full of dead docs Ah OK. can anyone drag through the archives and create a Wiki of Self intros to get started, then we can divide up the list amongst ourselves and each contact someone individually,. Dead docs are the purvue of the doc manager(s). There's already a writers Wiki page we can use stickster: Personally, I'd like to see something rather than nothing at all. yeah, maybe links to self-intros in the archives from the writers page. stickster: Even just the layout. G2: not mutually exclusvie a layout is enough for entry :) OK. How do we get people started ? and, yes, the doc manager can clean out dead stuff G2: sure, just trying to say that we should define "anything" Some folk over on the Linux Kernel Mailing List mentioned that documentors never get their name up in lights. Here is our chance to fix that. stickster: yes, make it document layout/structures etc. elliss: we can lead a horse to water ... G2: bingo we have lots to do already that will be helpful * updating the doc guide * updating the quick start stuff * collating all the materials into one or two pages so that people aren't lost etc. elliss: Take our newest potential contributor... had a good idea, we gave him encouragement... when he shows up with first draft, it's CVS time... * G2 wonders what it takes to get given some work we'll just keep pushing on it, and peole will come on one at a time. G2: can you update the Writers Wiki page with links to self- intros in the archives? anyone who self-intros is a writer. quaid: I don't think that's so quaid: nope ;-) Yeah sure. I'll did through in the morning. or an editor or a technical reviewer Potential yes, potential just call everyone a writer for now? contributor? ok +1 G2: can you make that a DocsProject/Contributors page with links to self-intros? https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2004- March/msg00005.html Might I also suggest condensing the Writers and Editors pages into that, then? there's mine :) sure, we could do that * quaid curses Wikis :-) make redirects from the other pages into the Contributors Suggestion: FDSCo people should put the self intro stuff on their Wiki page and link to that +1 elliss: great idea http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/documentation-guide/ch- style.html style guidelines are live hurrah! quaid: yeas. Just getting my son ;-) He's on my lap with a bottle ;-) Yah ! * quaid sends pre-prepared email to list Hold off on that sorry too late Oh, nm * quaid is flying today any more CVS stuff? I just need to do a little research to get the FDL requirements handled in the text ah yeah my bad let's just go forward leave an obvious audit trail in CVS right (commit logs) best intentions, all that Q: is there something a new contrib can do with CVS straightaway elliss: yes To get them moving ? put in a template XML in about 30 minutes if you have a doc outline, you can have a blank doc pretty quick at least, I could :) sounds good and then start writing into it or collaborating agreed, committing an outline shows commitment What does "move everything up one level" mean? (from agenda) stickster: when I get back, I'll touch base with you about the FDL, we can split up that work some, I have to be accountable for that. k stickster: the fedora-docs/ folder stuff like to get all that up into /cvs/docs ... right? or if someone wants to write a doc, but doesn't know docbook, one of us could create a quick docbook template for them based on an outline and let them roll with it or not we could also have /cvs/docs/process-docs/ and so forth tcf: nice! quaid: gotcha... so there will be a separate module for each doc in fact, we should just do that by updating the template. quaid: or... :-) right something to discuss ... should there be a separate module for each doc Can anybody create a module then ? with a cvs import, right, tcf ? quaid: exactly, take the burden of cvs import and the docbook template off of new writers Modules are also good because no one has to take down a bunch of extraneous material to work on a single doc Takes two steps: "cvs import" and then c/o and commit "CVSROOT/modules". ok, yeah, then ayone could create a module that way and yes, you can create a module with cvs import That would make things easy The modules stuff can be configured to always include common, xsl, etc megacoder: so anyone has to write to CVSROOT/modules _or_ we need to have a CVS admin to do that? I can write a quick "how to create a new module" doc if someone tells me the best place to put it Anybody. tcf: in fedora-docs/documentation-guide/ stickster: exactly Has the been any progress with the docbook wiki trials? quaid: ok, will add to my list tcf: thx But I'd limit access to it to just the doc managers. ok, sensible Just to note that we're revising our process stuff here any other questions about the agenda? agreed G2: Who exactly was doing that? elliss: in what way exactly? please spell out for the record :) stickster: I thought someone was? megacoder was looking into it at one point G2: you see my point then ;-D bbl bye quaid I just mean that we are changing the process from what's on the Wiki bye elliss: I'll capture this and get it on the CvsUsage page Sure stickster: We should have a task page for each committee member ;-) Once we know how to *do* it, according to tcf's expert guidance :-) G2: We have the minutes mail to refer to... I would rather not create yet another place I need to checklist my work... that's what my sticky-notes applet is for :-) Someone mentioned my name in vain, just now. What about? G2: We've already got a Wiki page each megacoder: G2 thought you were looking into docbook to Wiki conversion Not I. I was tinkering with the sandbox idea. right, copy that elliss: yes, of course. I'll add my taks there OK. I'll do the same It's good idea everyone should feel free to list tasks wherever... I will probably refrain if it's all the same to everyone else The alternative is we tag the master tasks list with names stickster: How come? Too many places to keep track of? G2: right on stickster: I know the feeling I spend too much time on the Wiki as it is I think one list is best too, but that's just me * G2 Has two hands to type now, Ben is asleep!!! Need to get writing/editing done in my limited spare time G2: nice! warm milk does it every time ;-) * G2 is doing an update for the Amanda docs that I maintain too. Should we move on to issue #3 on the agenda ? tcf: Cold for him. He's got a cold. Snot everywhere and sneezes... Oh wait a minute, I'm rushing, sorry G2: ugh, my daughter (and I) are getting over a cold too Status check is that CVS has been corrected in the Doc Guide to point to cvs.f.r.c tcf: not nice watching a 1 years old (minux three months for his prematureness) lick/suck their own snot ;-( Not much else done yet, but the outline is still on the wiki for comment: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject_2fDocumentationGuide stickster: checking G2: yecchh! (But my son does it too, the little ogre) stickster: not yet, I had it on my list to do last week, but I injuried my eye and wasn't able to work from wed to sun * megacoder suggests "snot" is a bit OT. +1 With feeling stickster: but I will do it this week along with the cvs import stuff tcf: 'sOK... I've been working on editing Stuart's excellent work on the Installation Guide I know everyone is hot to have it out for FC4... at least, that seemed to be the general feeling I think that everybody thinks it's a good idea but a PITA to work on There will be at least a rough version ready... It will probably *still* require work after FC4 goes final, but there's nothing we can do about that do we have a master task list for the steering committee in wiki? I'm having trouble find it I mean, other than work on it http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject_2fMasterTasks stickster: thanks, I found that, but it doesn't have names associated with it * G2 Ben back. One hand again, so just watching not yet it doesn't stickster: have you seen the one fedora extras uses? stickster: gdk suggested we put something like that together stickster: to show who is accountable for each task I can't find it.... I see their package building reports, but not a task list... link anyone? brb stickster: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraExtrasSchedule tcf: thanks stickster: that is the one for the Fedora Extras I like the closed issues too That's not bad... so we can show we've made progress Right, rather than just having a page that looks different every time you see it, but you can't quite put your finger on how... megacoder: Care to start that up? we don't have this problem, but for some steering committees, it is nice to see who is actively working so the chair can make sure the best people are on the committee stickster: exactly plus it gives us a way to quickly record our tasks list after each meeting tcf: all right, I get it, you're trying to kick people off already (I kid! I KID!) OK, I'll give it a try with sufficient handholding You can do it man... just check their page and use it as a template We have faith in you the beauty of open source ;-) Yee-HA baby! Oh, behave! now now This kind of dovetails nicely with #3 on the agenda then... "writers assignment improvements" and "tracking of open docs" good change of subject ;-) Going, going, gone! I am segue man before we move on, I would like to say that I love Colin's summary of their meetings: http://lwn.net/Articles/125865/ just fyi for quaid to see if he reads the logs when he gets back from the doctor I never knew they did that Can we say some stuff about his mama in here too? elliss: yes, the fedora extras committee has it together They kind of have to, since they're tracking, like 1300 packages in their repo FESCo rocks +1 * stickster totally made that number up and stuff It's about that yes. ANyone has any RPMS in there? In my copious spare time, brother Reminds me One day we'll cross cut the fedora-docs-* RPMs to them, I'm sure :-) I have about 7 or 8. -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Thu May 5 23:49:58 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 16:49:58 -0700 Subject: Open Source Development and Documentation Project Message-ID: <1115336998.25043.27.camel@erato.phig.org> I forgot who said he or she would look into hooking us up with this group: http://osddp.org/ I took a very short peek. It seemed to me that we would need to join the site and read some archives, other research, so as to engage them in a better manner. I haven't dug that deeply yet. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue May 10 00:12:47 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 01:12:47 +0100 Subject: Open Source Development and Documentation Project In-Reply-To: <1115336998.25043.27.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1115336998.25043.27.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1115683967.5451.42.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> On Thu, 2005-05-05 at 16:49 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > I forgot who said he or she would look into hooking us up with this > group: > > http://osddp.org/ I posted this from my link archive, and have poked around a bit. > I took a very short peek. It seemed to me that we would need to join > the site and read some archives, other research, so as to engage them in > a better manner. I haven't dug that deeply yet. The Website itself seems to be primarily for Purdue courses, and there isn't much on outside work. It appears that they have a large and rather progressive Professional Writing department with an interesting technical bent (Open Source, CMS and blogging, not DocBook though). There's an overview of them here: http://pw.english.purdue.edu/ The topics that students are writing about for their courses are also rather hip (Creative Commons, Abiword, OpenBSD...): http://osddp.org/project/issues The best contact seems to be: Dr. David Blakesley (blakesle at purdue.edu), Director. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue May 10 08:54:58 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 09:54:58 +0100 (BST) Subject: LugRadio.org mention Message-ID: <48757.193.195.148.66.1115715298.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Dear guys, We missed the latest episode, dated yesterday, but we will have a mention in the next one, which is due out in two weeks time. No interview I'm afraid :-( Gavin. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue May 10 12:43:57 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:43:57 +0100 (BST) Subject: Where to put Contributors page? Message-ID: <34892.193.195.148.66.1115729037.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Dear guys, Where should the current writers/contibutors page be? I'm sure I created one, but I can't seem to find it again. Thanks. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue May 10 13:23:04 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 14:23:04 +0100 (BST) Subject: Contributors Page Message-ID: <38035.193.195.148.66.1115731384.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Currently here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocProject_2fContributors I don't know if it;s linked by anything though? Gavin. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 10 15:22:47 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 11:22:47 -0400 Subject: Where to put Contributors page? In-Reply-To: <34892.193.195.148.66.1115729037.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> References: <34892.193.195.148.66.1115729037.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Message-ID: <1115738568.4510.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 13:43 +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > Dear guys, > > Where should the current writers/contibutors page be? > > I'm sure I created one, but I can't seem to find it again. I moved the page to DocsProject/Contributors -- before, it was "DocProject," no "s". Now the parent link works correctly. Otherwise, made no changes. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue May 10 15:28:04 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:28:04 +0100 (BST) Subject: Where to put Contributors page? In-Reply-To: <1115738568.4510.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <34892.193.195.148.66.1115729037.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <1115738568.4510.30.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <46258.193.195.148.66.1115738884.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> > On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 13:43 +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: >> Dear guys, >> >> Where should the current writers/contibutors page be? >> >> I'm sure I created one, but I can't seem to find it again. > > I moved the page to DocsProject/Contributors -- before, it was > "DocProject," no "s". Now the parent link works correctly. Otherwise, > made no changes. > > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Contributors Ah, thanks. I thought it might be that. Speak to you tonight, Gavin. > > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ > From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 10 20:00:17 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 13:00:17 -0700 Subject: 10 May 2005 Agenda Message-ID: <1115755217.6897.124.camel@erato.phig.org> half-baked, but will work to start :) Agenda for 10 May 2005 1. CVS update - docs now in individual modules - tutorial on how-to make a module? - do we need to fix up CVSROOT/avail in some way? 2. Discussion of release notes process proposal - One volunteer already - Posting at DocsProject/ReleaseNotes/Beats 3. Status of the FC4 Installation Guide - Jeremy will provide a technical reviewer 4. Open -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue May 10 20:56:51 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:56:51 -0500 Subject: HOWTO: Accessing re-organized Fedora Docs CVS Message-ID: <20050510155651.2999c7f0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Greetings, Folks! To make life simpler, we have reorganized the CVS setup for Fedora Docs. Previously, there was one big "module" called "fedora-docs". You checked that out of CVS and you had the all the documents from the entire project. While you could check out just the part you were interested in, doing so was clumsy. Adding a new document was equally awkward. With the CVS changes now in place, each document forms its own CVS module and can be checked out individually. Everything that used to be in the "fedora-docs/" directory is now a top-level module. 1) To see which modules exist (assuming that your $CVSROOT environment variable is properly set): cvs co -c 2) How do you access an existing document? First, create a working directory. A "fedora-docs/" directory isn't created automatically, so make: a) yourself a playpen; and then b) get the overhead doc modules; and then c) and then get the document you want. Here is now it goes together: $ mkdir my-docs $ cd my-docs $ cvs co docs-setup $ cvs co developer-guide Note that the "docs-setup" actually gets three modules for you: "common", "stylesheet-images", and "xsl". You need these for any document you visit. Since each document you get from CVS can share a single "common/", "stylesheet-images/" and "xsl/" directory, you only need to do this once regardless of how many documents you work on simultaneously. 3) How do I begin a new document? Much the same was as you do an existing document. You still need the "docs-setup" module, described in the previous section. Create a new directory for your new document and away you go. A good technique is to use an existing document as a model: $ mkdir my-new-document $ cd my-new-document $ cvs co docs-setup $ cvs co -d my-material example-tutorial $ rm -rf my-material/CVS Be sure to remove the CVS directory from your new document's working area ("my-material/CVS" in our example) because your document has not been added to the Fedora CVS system yet. 4) How do I get my document into the Fedora CVS system? Sign up for CVS access! If you have followed the instructions above, you can add your document to the Fedora CVS easily. Rename your working directory, just to be safe, import your document into CVS, and the check out the "official" verion of your document. Continuing our previous example: $ mv my-material my-material-orig $ cd my-material-orig $ cvs import my-material "initial" $ cd .. $ cvs co my-material Notice that we renamed the working copy to "my-material-orig", and then imported that using the "real" name of "my-material": this is the new module name for your document. Compare its contents with that of your original "my-material-orig" directory to ensure its correctness. Feel free to delete your "my-material-orig" directory whenever you wish or keep it forever - your choice. The Fedora CVS administrator will add an entry into the official "modules" listing for you, so you should be see your new document in the "cvs co -c" listing very soon. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 10 21:17:14 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 14:17:14 -0700 Subject: HOWTO: Accessing re-organized Fedora Docs CVS In-Reply-To: <20050510155651.2999c7f0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050510155651.2999c7f0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1115759834.6897.134.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 15:56 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Greetings, Folks! > > To make life simpler, we have reorganized the CVS setup for Fedora > Docs. Previously, there was one big "module" called "fedora-docs". s/\"module\"/module/ As per style guidelines, putting quotes around it removes confidence > You checked that out of CVS and you had the all the documents from > the entire project. While you could check out just the part you were > interested in, doing so was clumsy. Adding a new document was > equally awkward. > > With the CVS changes now in place, each document forms its own CVS > module and can be checked out individually. Everything that used to > be in the "fedora-docs/" directory is now a top-level module. > > 1) To see which modules exist (assuming that your $CVSROOT > environment variable is properly set): > > cvs co -c > > 2) How do you access an existing document? > > First, create a working directory. A "fedora-docs/" directory > isn't created automatically, so make: > > a) yourself a playpen; and then > b) get the overhead doc modules; and then > c) and then get the document you want. s/c) and then/c)/ > Here is now it goes together: > > $ mkdir my-docs > $ cd my-docs > $ cvs co docs-setup > $ cvs co developer-guide > > Note that the "docs-setup" actually gets three modules for you: > "common", "stylesheet-images", and "xsl". You need these for any > document you visit. How can we make it so that doing a 'cvs up' to a module will make also grab the latest from the docs-setup group? > Since each document you get from CVS can share a single "common/", > "stylesheet-images/" and "xsl/" directory, you only need to do > this once regardless of how many documents you work on > simultaneously. If it's automagically included, can we drop even the first cvs co docs- setup? > 3) How do I begin a new document? > > Much the same was as you do an existing document. You still need > the "docs-setup" module, described in the previous section. > Create a new directory for your new document and away you go. A > good technique is to use an existing document as a model: > > $ mkdir my-new-document > $ cd my-new-document > $ cvs co docs-setup > $ cvs co -d my-material example-tutorial > $ rm -rf my-material/CVS > > Be sure to remove the CVS directory from your new document's > working area ("my-material/CVS" in our example) because your > document has not been added to the Fedora CVS system yet. Ideally, we want a docs-skel module. Maybe note that we are working on that. > 4) How do I get my document into the Fedora CVS system? > > Sign up for CVS access! > > If you have followed the instructions above, you can add your > document to the Fedora CVS easily. Rename your working directory, > just to be safe, import your document into CVS, and the check out > the "official" verion of your document. > > Continuing our previous example: > > $ mv my-material my-material-orig > $ cd my-material-orig > $ cvs import my-material "initial" > $ cd .. > $ cvs co my-material > > Notice that we renamed the working copy to "my-material-orig", and > then imported that using the "real" name of "my-material": this is > the new module name for your document. Compare its contents with > that of your original "my-material-orig" directory to ensure its > correctness. Feel free to delete your "my-material-orig" > directory whenever you wish or keep it forever - your choice. > > The Fedora CVS administrator will add an entry into the official > "modules" listing for you, so you should be see your new document > in the "cvs co -c" listing very soon. Okay, that sounds good. I'm personally OK with there being a final check with the CVS admin(s) before it goes live. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue May 10 21:29:35 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:29:35 -0500 Subject: HOWTO: Accessing re-organized Fedora Docs CVS In-Reply-To: <1115759834.6897.134.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20050510155651.2999c7f0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115759834.6897.134.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050510162935.6aec4e9c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > How can we make it so that doing a 'cvs up' to a module will make also > grab the latest from the docs-setup group? > > > Since each document you get from CVS can share a single "common/", > > "stylesheet-images/" and "xsl/" directory, you only need to do > > this once regardless of how many documents you work on > > simultaneously. > > If it's automagically included, can we drop even the first cvs co docs- > setup? I'm not really sure that we want the automagic updating. Especially for newbies, I think the principal of least surprise is in order here. After all, unless they are missing a new entity definition, it doesn't matter that much what is in their local information; they can't change it anyway. Perhaps adding a suggestion about updating the commons before anything more than a "checkpoint" checkin would be enough. I'm OK with the other surgery, though. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 10 21:37:02 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:37:02 -0400 Subject: HOWTO: Accessing re-organized Fedora Docs CVS In-Reply-To: <1115759834.6897.134.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20050510155651.2999c7f0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115759834.6897.134.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1115761022.4920.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 14:17 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 15:56 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > > Greetings, Folks! > > > > To make life simpler, we have reorganized the CVS setup for Fedora > > Docs. Previously, there was one big "module" called "fedora-docs". > > s/\"module\"/module/ > > As per style guidelines, putting quotes around it removes confidence > > > You checked that out of CVS and you had the all the documents from > > the entire project. While you could check out just the part you were > > interested in, doing so was clumsy. Adding a new document was > > equally awkward. > > > > With the CVS changes now in place, each document forms its own CVS > > module and can be checked out individually. Everything that used to > > be in the "fedora-docs/" directory is now a top-level module. > > > > 1) To see which modules exist (assuming that your $CVSROOT > > environment variable is properly set): > > > > cvs co -c > > > > 2) How do you access an existing document? > > > > First, create a working directory. A "fedora-docs/" directory > > isn't created automatically, so make: > > > > a) yourself a playpen; and then > > b) get the overhead doc modules; and then > > c) and then get the document you want. > s/c) and then/c)/ > > > Here is now it goes together: > > > > $ mkdir my-docs > > $ cd my-docs > > $ cvs co docs-setup > > $ cvs co developer-guide > > > > Note that the "docs-setup" actually gets three modules for you: > > "common", "stylesheet-images", and "xsl". You need these for any > > document you visit. > > How can we make it so that doing a 'cvs up' to a module will make also > grab the latest from the docs-setup group? This is my only beef with the current setup. Look at the CVSROOT/modules file for Extras and you will see one way to solve this problem. Their way grabs common code and moves it *under* the module directory using a line like this: module-name module-dir &common-module We probably don't want that since it would mean having to re-code all the docs. We want the common stuff to sit on the same directory level as the checked out dir. That would mean doing something like this: xsl xsl common common stylesheet-images stylesheet-images css css scripts scripts shared xsl common stylesheet-images css scripts my-module my-module shared Let's keep in mind the usability aspect. When someone does a "cvs up," they should receive any updates to css, xsl, etc. The method above assures that, and knocks out the requirement to separately download supporting stuff. By diverting all the supporting modules into "shared," any changes to anything *in* "shared" (including adding another dir later) will automatically come down to people running "cvs up". Is there a reason this is not acceptable? > > Since each document you get from CVS can share a single "common/", > > "stylesheet-images/" and "xsl/" directory, you only need to do > > this once regardless of how many documents you work on > > simultaneously. > > If it's automagically included, can we drop even the first cvs co docs- > setup? Yes, see above. > > 3) How do I begin a new document? > > > > Much the same was as you do an existing document. You still need > > the "docs-setup" module, described in the previous section. > > Create a new directory for your new document and away you go. A > > good technique is to use an existing document as a model: > > > > $ mkdir my-new-document > > $ cd my-new-document > > $ cvs co docs-setup > > $ cvs co -d my-material example-tutorial > > $ rm -rf my-material/CVS > > > > Be sure to remove the CVS directory from your new document's > > working area ("my-material/CVS" in our example) because your > > document has not been added to the Fedora CVS system yet. > > Ideally, we want a docs-skel module. Maybe note that we are working on > that. We should be able to accomplish this with a script included in the shared stuff. > > 4) How do I get my document into the Fedora CVS system? > > > > Sign up for CVS access! > > > > If you have followed the instructions above, you can add your > > document to the Fedora CVS easily. Rename your working directory, > > just to be safe, import your document into CVS, and the check out > > the "official" verion of your document. > > > > Continuing our previous example: > > > > $ mv my-material my-material-orig > > $ cd my-material-orig > > $ cvs import my-material "initial" > > $ cd .. > > $ cvs co my-material > > > > Notice that we renamed the working copy to "my-material-orig", and > > then imported that using the "real" name of "my-material": this is > > the new module name for your document. Compare its contents with > > that of your original "my-material-orig" directory to ensure its > > correctness. Feel free to delete your "my-material-orig" > > directory whenever you wish or keep it forever - your choice. > > > > The Fedora CVS administrator will add an entry into the official > > "modules" listing for you, so you should be see your new document > > in the "cvs co -c" listing very soon. > > Okay, that sounds good. I'm personally OK with there being a final > check with the CVS admin(s) before it goes live. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 10 21:42:25 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 17:42:25 -0400 Subject: HOWTO: Accessing re-organized Fedora Docs CVS In-Reply-To: <20050510162935.6aec4e9c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050510155651.2999c7f0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115759834.6897.134.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050510162935.6aec4e9c.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1115761345.4920.14.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 16:29 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > > > How can we make it so that doing a 'cvs up' to a module will make also > > grab the latest from the docs-setup group? > > > > > Since each document you get from CVS can share a single "common/", > > > "stylesheet-images/" and "xsl/" directory, you only need to do > > > this once regardless of how many documents you work on > > > simultaneously. > > > > If it's automagically included, can we drop even the first cvs co docs- > > setup? > > I'm not really sure that we want the automagic updating. Especially > for newbies, I think the principal of least surprise is in order > here. > > After all, unless they are missing a new entity definition, it > doesn't matter that much what is in their local information; they > can't change it anyway. Perhaps adding a suggestion about updating > the commons before anything more than a "checkpoint" checkin would be > enough. > > I'm OK with the other surgery, though. "Least surprise" == "everything works." That means, to me, that I (the hypothetical "new contributor") shouldn't have to remember to get changes in the CSS, xsl, etc. -- all of which have incorporated changes several times over just the last year, for instance -- to get the latest and greatest build tools, styles, etc. as "approved" by the FDP. Keep in mind that we need contributors to benefit from stuff in a "scripts" directory, the Doc Guide tutorial, and many other things we haven't even projected yet. By indirectly pointing to that stuff with a "shared" module, or one of a selection of "shared"-type modules (see previous e-mail), we cut down on the amount of help we're going to have to deal out on list traffic later. This is why Extras has set this up as well. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue May 10 21:58:11 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:58:11 -0500 Subject: HOWTO: Accessing re-organized Fedora Docs CVS In-Reply-To: <1115761022.4920.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20050510155651.2999c7f0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115759834.6897.134.camel@erato.phig.org> <1115761022.4920.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050510165811.2ac62fbe.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > shared xsl common stylesheet-images css scripts > > my-module my-module shared > > > Let's keep in mind the usability aspect. When someone does a "cvs up," > they should receive any updates to css, xsl, etc. The method above > assures that, and knocks out the requirement to separately download > supporting stuff. By diverting all the supporting modules into > "shared," any changes to anything *in* "shared" (including adding > another dir later) will automatically come down to people running "cvs > up". Is there a reason this is not acceptable? I object to having [potentially] several copies of the common stuff under each document. As long as common directories are peers of the working document (read that as "../common") you are going to need a separate "cvs update" command because there is no longer a "CVS/" peer directory to them for one-stop-shopping. Either we stay with the current setup, or we go in and do surgery so that documents expect the common stuff as subdirectories. Since it's a style issue, I don't feel justified in saying one is technologically better than another although for a software development project I know what I'd choose. Just pick one and let the edits fall where they may. Cheers! -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 10 22:56:35 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 15:56:35 -0700 Subject: HOWTO: Accessing re-organized Fedora Docs CVS In-Reply-To: <20050510165811.2ac62fbe.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050510155651.2999c7f0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115759834.6897.134.camel@erato.phig.org> <1115761022.4920.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050510165811.2ac62fbe.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1115765796.6897.154.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 16:58 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > > > shared xsl common stylesheet-images css scripts > > > > my-module my-module shared > > > > > > Let's keep in mind the usability aspect. When someone does a "cvs up," > > they should receive any updates to css, xsl, etc. The method above > > assures that, and knocks out the requirement to separately download > > supporting stuff. By diverting all the supporting modules into > > "shared," any changes to anything *in* "shared" (including adding > > another dir later) will automatically come down to people running "cvs > > up". Is there a reason this is not acceptable? > > I object to having [potentially] several copies of the common stuff > under each document. > > As long as common directories are peers of the working document (read > that as "../common") you are going to need a separate "cvs update" > command because there is no longer a "CVS/" peer directory to them > for one-stop-shopping. OK, that's clear then. If we want them to be common inclusions of a single module, they need the CVS/ peer directory, so have to be included within the module itself. > Either we stay with the current setup, or we go in and do surgery so > that documents expect the common stuff as subdirectories. > > Since it's a style issue, I don't feel justified in saying one is > technologically better than another although for a software development > project I know what I'd choose. Just pick one and let the edits fall > where they may. Or are you thinking of a way where we pick both, dependening on the writer's preference? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue May 10 23:11:02 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 18:11:02 -0500 Subject: HOWTO: Accessing re-organized Fedora Docs CVS In-Reply-To: <1115765796.6897.154.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <20050510155651.2999c7f0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115759834.6897.134.camel@erato.phig.org> <1115761022.4920.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050510165811.2ac62fbe.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115765796.6897.154.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20050510181102.06a88756.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade , spake thus: > Or are you thinking of a way where we pick both, dependening on the > writer's preference? Captain, we don't usually ask the passengers about abandoning ship, sir. My point is that from the contributors point of view, the boilerplate modules are exactly that: unimportant unless they don't have something you need; then you update them. Checking in a document doesn't rely on any particular revision of the boilerplate. Since we don't envision the contributors distributing self-rendered documents they shouldn't be concerned if the commons modules are not up-to-the-minute. Also, think of the process of a contributor creating a document and then trying to import it into the CVS tree. Their working directory will be littered with files and directories they must _not_ try to import, such as "CVS", "common", "xsl" and such, or they will royally break things. Can we rely on the newbie properly cleaning up their working document before importing it? Even if we provide them a clean-up script, trust them to use it? In contrast, look at the 3-step process I outlined for importing a document in the draft CVS announcement that I sent to FPSco. Even a manager could follow that, I imagine ;-) I firmly believe that the commons stuff should just be a black-box to the contributor. After all, shouldn't all peers be equal or are some peers more equal than others ;-? Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 11 02:48:45 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 19:48:45 -0700 Subject: HOWTO: Accessing re-organized Fedora Docs CVS In-Reply-To: <20050510181102.06a88756.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> References: <20050510155651.2999c7f0.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115759834.6897.134.camel@erato.phig.org> <1115761022.4920.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20050510165811.2ac62fbe.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> <1115765796.6897.154.camel@erato.phig.org> <20050510181102.06a88756.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Message-ID: <1115779725.6897.177.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-05-10 at 18:11 -0500, Tommy Reynolds wrote: > I firmly believe that the commons stuff should just be a black-box to > the contributor. After all, shouldn't all peers be equal or are some > peers more equal than others ;-? In my finite wisdom I asked you to be our CVS administrator. Now I can safely defer to your wisdom. Which seems wise to me. Just don't ask what "which" refers to, and we're safe. Also, until the repository gets to be _huge_, retooling should we change our minds won't be that big of a thing. 'Sides, you mainly convinced me. I like the convenience of included modules, but we'll live the other way, too. Also, what you propose is closest to the current status quo. So be it. IIABDFI. Carry on. Other than the (minor) changes I made, is there anything else? If not, you're welcome to another edit iteration against this list, or to make up a final and kick it out of the nest. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Wed May 11 04:43:39 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 23:43:39 -0500 Subject: New CVS Layout Tips And Techniques Message-ID: <20050510234339.722a12d6.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Greetings, Folks! To make life simpler, we have reorganized the CVS setup for Fedora Docs. Previously, there was one big module called "fedora-docs". You checked that out of CVS and you had the all the documents from the entire project. While you could check out just the part you were interested in, doing so was clumsy. Adding a new document was equally awkward. With the CVS changes now in place, each document forms its own CVS module and can be checked out individually. Everything that used to be in the "fedora-docs/" directory is now a top-level module. The "fedora-docs/" directory is no more; it is an ex-directory; it is pining for the fjords ;-) Sorry. 1) To see which modules exist (assuming that your $CVSROOT environment variable is properly set): $ cvs co -c 2) How do you access an existing document? First, create a working directory. A "fedora-docs/" holding directory isn't created automatically as before, so make: a) yourself a playpen; and then b) get the overhead doc modules; and then c) get or create the document you want. Here is how it goes together: $ mkdir my-docs-dir $ cd my-docs-dir $ cvs co docs-setup $ cvs co example-tutorial Note that the "docs-setup" actually gets four modules for you: "common", "css", "stylesheet-images", and "xsl". You need these for any document you view or create. Since each document you get from CVS can share a single "common/", "css/", "stylesheet-images/" and "xsl/" directory, you only need to do this once regardless of how many documents you work on simultaneously. 3) How do I begin a new document? Much the same was as you do an existing document. You still need the "docs-setup" checkout, described in the previous section. Create a new directory for your new document and away you go. A good technique is to use an existing document as a model: $ mkdir my-new-document-sandbox $ cd my-new-document-sandbox $ cvs co docs-setup $ cvs co -d my-doc example-tutorial $ rm -rf my-doc/CVS Be sure to remove the CVS directory from your new document's working area ("my-doc/CVS" in our example) because your document has not been added to the Fedora CVS system yet. 4) How do I get my document into the Fedora CVS system? Sign up for CVS access! If you have followed the instructions above, you can add your document to the Fedora CVS easily. Rename your working directory, just to be safe, import your document into CVS, and the check out the "official" verion of your document. NOTE: take care that you do not try to import a directory named "CVS"! Your new document should not have *any* CVS directories before your import is finished. Continuing our previous example: $ mv my-doc my-doc-orig $ cd my-doc-orig $ cvs import my-doc "initial" $ cd .. $ cvs co my-doc Notice that we renamed the working copy to "my-doc-orig", and then imported that using the real name of "my-doc": this is the actual module name for your document. Compare its contents with that of your original "my-doc-orig" directory to ensure its correctness. Feel free to delete your "my-doc-orig" directory whenever you wish or keep it forever - your choice. The Fedora CVS administrator will add an entry into the official modules listing for you, so you should be see your new document in the "cvs co -c" listing very soon. 5) Single-Point Updates A document setup consists of two CVS entities: the "docs-setup" group and the specific document tree. For example, checking out the example tutorial: $ mkdir a-new-world $ cd a-new-world $ cvs co docs-setup $ cvs co example-tutorial Now, look at the working directory: $ ls -CF common/ css/ example-tutorial/ stylesheet-images/ xsl/ That makes 5 separate CVS objects to keep updated. The directories created by the docs-setup form the infrastructure used by your document. If you want to keep everything updated, you could do this: $ cvs update * in the "a-new-world/" top-level directory. You can also update your working document from within its directory, as usual: $ cd example-tutorial $ cvs update 6) I already have documents checked out using the old setup. Now what? Congratulations on being a current FDP activist! You have two choices, depending on your confidence: A) Keep what you have. Edit each "CVS/Repository" file in your local hierarchy to remove the "fedora-docs/" prefix from the pathname you find there. For example: $ cd example-tutorial $ cat CVS/Repository fedora-docs/example-tutorial $ vi CVS/Repository $ cat CVS/Repository example-tutorial B) Punt and do a fresh checkout. Shhh, we won't tell! Please enjoy your stay here in Fedora Docs CVS land. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 17 19:45:51 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 12:45:51 -0700 Subject: Agenda 17 May 2005 meeting Message-ID: <1116359151.6897.360.camel@erato.phig.org> I just noticed that I didn't finish and send out _last_ week's minutes. This is still a good exercise for me, to make sure everything is covered, but eventually I will ask someone else to help with logging and minutes. :) Focus on FC4 release. 0. Release notes - divide and conquer 1. Status Checks 1.1 CVS All going well from my perspective, open topic JIC Are we feeling like there is enough how-to for people to start? Learned to treat built DocBook as disposable blobs in CVS 1.2 Beta docs Going fine 1.3 Installation Guide -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From tfox at redhat.com Tue May 17 20:33:17 2005 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 16:33:17 -0400 Subject: CVS info on fedora.redhat.com Message-ID: <1116361997.6675.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi everyone, http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ is now updated with the correct CVS information. We need a link to instructions for gaining write access to CVS under the CVS Access section as well. I seem to recall reading on Wiki page for this, but I can't find it. Anyone know where one might be? There is also http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/docs.shtml which contains CVS information. Some sections probably need to be customized for docs instead of extras. Tammy From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 17 21:19:03 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 17:19:03 -0400 Subject: CVS info on fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <1116361997.6675.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1116361997.6675.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1116364743.4777.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 16:33 -0400, Tammy Fox wrote: > Hi everyone, > > http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ is now updated with the correct > CVS information. > > We need a link to instructions for gaining write access to CVS under the > CVS Access section as well. I seem to recall reading on Wiki page for > this, but I can't find it. Anyone know where one might be? I updated this page: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsUsage to link here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora/AccountSystem Do either of those help? > There is also http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/docs.shtml which contains CVS > information. Some sections probably need to be customized for docs > instead of extras. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue May 17 22:21:01 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 17 May 2005 17:21:01 -0500 Subject: CVS info on fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <1116361997.6675.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1116361997.6675.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050517172101.1c033846.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Tammy Fox , spake thus: > We need a link to instructions for gaining write access to CVS under the > CVS Access section as well. I seem to recall reading on Wiki page for > this, but I can't find it. Anyone know where one might be? You should be able to steal some stuff from the CVS reorganization email I sent out a couple of days ago. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From tfox at redhat.com Wed May 18 18:53:47 2005 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Wed, 18 May 2005 14:53:47 -0400 Subject: CVS info on fedora.redhat.com In-Reply-To: <1116364743.4777.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1116361997.6675.46.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1116364743.4777.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1116442428.5814.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 17:19 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote: > On Tue, 2005-05-17 at 16:33 -0400, Tammy Fox wrote: > > Hi everyone, > > > > http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ is now updated with the correct > > CVS information. > > > > We need a link to instructions for gaining write access to CVS under the > > CVS Access section as well. I seem to recall reading on Wiki page for > > this, but I can't find it. Anyone know where one might be? > > I updated this page: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsUsage > to link here: > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora/AccountSystem > > Do either of those help? > Yes. I will link to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/CvsUsage from http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs. Tammy > > There is also http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/docs.shtml which contains CVS > > information. Some sections probably need to be customized for docs > > instead of extras. > > -- > fedora-dsco-list mailing list > fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-dsco-list From kwade at redhat.com Fri May 20 17:38:26 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 20 May 2005 10:38:26 -0700 Subject: no meeting 5/24 Message-ID: <1116610706.3633.84.camel@erato.phig.org> I'm going to be unavailable for the meeting this coming week, trip to Raleigh intervenes. I can use the extra week to catch up on minutes and action items. Right now, with the release imminent, our main Fedora documentation duties are getting the Installation Guide and the relnotes done. Don't worry if you aren't able to work on either of these, you are not expected to inconenience your busy life for the Fedora schedule. Wherever you can help is appreciated. - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue May 31 12:45:47 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 13:45:47 +0100 (BST) Subject: Tonights meeting Message-ID: <41797.193.195.148.66.1117543547.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> We on for tonight, 9pm? -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From stickster at gmail.com Tue May 31 14:30:16 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 10:30:16 -0400 Subject: Tonights meeting In-Reply-To: <41797.193.195.148.66.1117543547.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> References: <41797.193.195.148.66.1117543547.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Message-ID: <1117549816.4604.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 13:45 +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > We on for tonight, 9pm? As far as I know... -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Tue May 31 17:03:01 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 12:03:01 -0500 Subject: Tonights meeting In-Reply-To: <1117549816.4604.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <41797.193.195.148.66.1117543547.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <1117549816.4604.8.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20050531120301.6b507e75.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" , spake thus: > On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 13:45 +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > > We on for tonight, 9pm? > > As far as I know... Not for me, I'm traveling to start my new job ;-) Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 31 19:39:11 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 12:39:11 -0700 Subject: Tonights meeting In-Reply-To: <41797.193.195.148.66.1117543547.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> References: <41797.193.195.148.66.1117543547.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Message-ID: <1117568351.29735.89.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 13:45 +0100, Gavin Henry wrote: > We on for tonight, 9pm? I thought it was for 1 pm! j/k Yes, we're on. See you in a few minutes. - Karsten, who needs an auto-reminder, auto-minute taking 'bot -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue May 31 21:31:09 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 22:31:09 +0100 Subject: Before shipping the IG... Message-ID: <1117575069.13285.5.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> Just in case... For safety, the &DRAFTNOTICE; is still at the top of fedora-install- guide-intro-en.xml. If somebody commits it to the Website or adds it to the ISO please remove the entity (since it will officially be The Real Thing at that point). -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue May 31 22:44:35 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 31 May 2005 15:44:35 -0700 Subject: Before shipping the IG... In-Reply-To: <1117575069.13285.5.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> References: <1117575069.13285.5.camel@humboldt.eln.lan> Message-ID: <1117579475.29735.95.camel@erato.phig.org> On Tue, 2005-05-31 at 22:31 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > Just in case... > > For safety, the &DRAFTNOTICE; is still at the top of fedora-install- > guide-intro-en.xml. If somebody commits it to the Website or adds it to > the ISO please remove the entity (since it will officially be The Real > Thing at that point). Good reminder, thanks. We need to make that part of the release checklist. :) I note that the schedule is for 6 June to ship FC4. Therefore, that is our target for having it go live at a specific URL. For the added value, I'll talk with whomever is doing the announcement to put in a plug for the IG right at the top. ;) The weeks following the release may present a few bugs to us for the IG. Expect the unexpected. - Karsten Know the unknowable -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: