From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 3 15:41:27 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 03 Oct 2005 11:41:27 -0400 Subject: Meeting Tuesday, 4 Oct 2005 Message-ID: <1128354087.3113.70.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi gang, Karsten is on vacation and left me on "chair duty" for the meetings on 4 and 11 Oct 2005. Unfortunately, a work engagement has left me tied up on the 4th, so the illustrious Tammy Fox (a/k/a Queen Bee of Red Hat Magazine) will chair the meeting on the 4th. I will be absent for that meeting, but will return on the 11th. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Oct 4 02:35:12 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 04 Oct 2005 03:35:12 +0100 Subject: DocBook RPM Guide Now in CVS Message-ID: <1128393313.9382.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> I've converted the source documents to DocBook, and added a Makefile, so this now builds. The files were converted with OOo on FC4, as per the Wiki, and run through tidy-bowl. I converted the
bits to , but have otherwise left them alone. Note that this document will need a bit more work to make it conform to FDP DocBook standards - fixing up the section tags, and adding the correct tags within the text. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Fri Oct 7 16:03:29 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Fri, 07 Oct 2005 12:03:29 -0400 Subject: Meeting 4 Oct 2005 Message-ID: <1128701010.3080.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Does anyone have the IRC log and/or meeting notes? Just the first would be fine; I'd be happy to clean and post the results per normal. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Fri Oct 7 20:31:06 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 21:31:06 +0100 (BST) Subject: Meeting 4 Oct 2005 In-Reply-To: <1128701010.3080.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1128701010.3080.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <55637.192.168.100.90.1128717066.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> > Does anyone have the IRC log and/or meeting notes? Just the first would > be fine; I'd be happy to clean and post the results per normal. Attached. > > -- > Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ > gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 > Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ > -- > fedora-dsco-list mailing list > fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-dsco-list > -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: Oct04-FDSCO.log Type: text/x-log Size: 5637 bytes Desc: not available URL: From stuart at elsn.org Tue Oct 11 22:03:27 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:03:27 +0100 Subject: IRC log FDSCo 11 Oct 2005 Message-ID: <1129068207.3562.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> (21:06:02) stickster: (21:06:19) stickster: Hi everyone! (21:06:56) tcf: hi! (21:07:05) stickster: I guess I'll just start at the top of the list... (21:07:29) stickster: I think the FOP stuff, from Tommy's last message, is in "SOL" status for now (21:08:08) stickster: Although I note that Anthony Green joined up on the list and took the Java beat for relnotes (21:08:16) G2: Yup. It hurts my head thinking about HOP (21:08:20) G2: fop even (21:08:33) G2: I need to put them all on the wiki contributors (21:08:43) stickster: :-) me too... (21:09:06) stickster: Yes, Anthony is on the EditGroup now, so he should be able to work on at least the Java relnotes (21:09:47) stickster: Karsten is "off" for right now, so let's skip the FDP staging server part (21:10:03) stickster: Any other status to report with translations? I have one open issue... (21:10:50) stickster: It ties into a later task... packaging the docs (21:11:08) stickster: I may need help from Tommy in writing a better mousetrap, er, Makefile, to do proper internationalized packages (21:11:34) stickster: Which brought up the issue of internationalizing our docs-common/common/ areas (21:12:28) stickster: I am adding that to the Wiki... any other thoughts? (21:14:33) stickster: I know we're moving fast here... did I lose anyone? (21:14:52) ***stickster listens to ground for footsteps of angry mob (21:16:02) stickster: OK then.. (21:16:15) stickster: Shall I move on? (21:17:15) G2: Fine. (21:17:27) stickster: Beat writers... Anthony has taken Java... G2, will you edit the beats to reflect, and drop him an email on list? (21:18:22) stickster: Also G2, I show you were still on the hook for an email to drum up writers, correct? (21:19:51) stickster: I see that XML output from the wiki is basically OK, needs editorial taggin' and other lovin', but usable... anybody find differently? (21:20:14) G2: stickster: yeah. (21:20:19) G2: stickster: and yeah. (21:20:26) G2: I'll get that done. tomorrow. (21:20:33) stickster: G2: sweet, thanks (21:20:34) G2: and the wiki update for writer (21:20:40) G2: writers (21:21:12) stickster: Nothing like a couple tasks to get the head aching^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hblood boiling, huh? (21:22:14) stickster: :-D I see the next thing on the list is new documents... I published new versions of the DevGuide to take care of UTF-8, also the beta mirror-tutorial. Stuart had some good points to make, and filed bugs (hurrah!) which I will address and get pushed out to the f.r.c site (21:22:25) G2: Ha. (21:23:31) tcf: stickster: how many new documents do we have under development? (21:23:39) stickster: Hmm... hang on (21:24:29) stickster: In CVS, we have the hardening tutorial (status: ?), securing-filesystems (status: ?), proxy-guide (status: ?) (21:24:46) stickster: On Wiki, the Desktop Guide, Admin Guide, and Security Guide (21:24:58) G2 left the room (quit: "oops"). (21:25:07) elliss: No Security Guide (21:25:32) elliss: I wrote that page to be like NewWriters (21:25:33) stickster: Oh, thought I had seen that in wiki traffic, sorry... (21:25:45) quaid left the room (quit: "G.T.F.O.O.D."). (21:25:48) stickster: Also Getting Started Guide, Building Packages Guide, Essential Software, and Testing Guide (21:25:52) elliss: e.g. short-term fill-in (21:26:08) stickster: I think the packagers-handbook in CVS will be consolidated with the Building Packages Guide on wiki (21:26:15) tcf: right, I saw the guides in wiki, looks like most outlines for now (21:26:20) stickster: So that's essentially 9 (21:26:45) stickster: 4 of them pretty big ones (21:26:52) stickster: (GSG, DUG, AdminG, BPG) (21:27:04) stickster: BPG maybe not so big... :-) (21:28:03) stickster: Stuart, have you had a lot of help with the wiki drafts, or has a lot of this been solo? (21:28:09) tcf: do we have lead writers for all the wiki guides now? (21:28:44) elliss: No, and no (21:29:13) stickster: I see Andrew Hudson on lead for the DUG, Stuart for Admin, and Ignacio for the BPG (21:29:50) stickster: Stuart also has lead for "Essential Software" tutorial... (21:30:08) elliss: That's an experiment (21:30:24) elliss: To supplement relnotes with a list of interesting software (21:30:35) stickster: Right (21:30:37) elliss: Haven't done much with it (21:30:49) stickster: 's OK, seen a lot of other work you've been doing flying out on the Wiki notices (21:31:28) stickster: *: What do you all think is the best option for getting more traffic to the wiki to help with these docs? (21:32:02) elliss: We already have a list of people interested in helping :) (21:32:09) stickster: Excellent! (21:32:27) elliss: I meant the list that G2 maintains (21:32:36) stickster: Oh :( (21:32:40) stickster: jk (21:33:02) stickster: All right, G2 is handling the mass email, so let's all be on the lookout for a list stampede (right? right?) (21:33:14) elliss: Barrier to entry with Wiki is now so low that it's barely there :) (21:33:16) stickster: Hop on the newbies when they show up and hold hands as needed (21:33:25) stickster: Wait a minute, that sounded bad (21:33:30) elliss: Note that CLA may still be required (21:33:32) G2 [n=ghenry at mail.suretecsystems.com] entered the room. (21:33:54) elliss: Had a discussion with the LQ guys when at FUDCon (21:33:56) stickster: Right... I've noticed that many new people are a little confused by the acct system, so some questions may come up about how to execute (21:34:00) stickster: LQ (21:34:01) stickster: ? (21:34:09) elliss: LinuxQuestions.org (21:34:13) stickster: Ah gotcha (21:34:15) elliss: They also have a wiki (21:34:28) G2: sorry, bad connection tonight. (21:34:51) elliss: But didn't solidify copyright/licencing initially (21:35:04) elliss: Tricky to fix up later (21:35:08) stickster: Definitely (21:35:18) G2: How was FUDCon? (21:35:21) elliss: Once multiple people have modified a page (21:35:55) elliss: So we may need to ensure CLAs before granting DocWriters membership (21:36:09) stickster: Hmm, you may have an excellent point there (21:36:16) elliss: FUDCon was fairly small (21:36:53) G2: Need to call it early tonight. I'll do my jobs tomorrow ;-) (21:36:56) G2: Night guys (21:36:58) stickster: G2: k (21:37:01) stickster: 'night (21:37:10) elliss: night (21:37:14) G2 left the room ("See you all tomorrow."). (21:37:37) stickster: So let's be prepared to hold hands with the account system then (21:37:52) elliss: WRT support for new people: #fedora-wiki (21:38:06) elliss: I've posted IRC hours on my Wiki page (21:38:10) stickster: elliss: Can you get with Anthony Green and make sure he does a CLA before working on relnotes? (21:38:33) stickster: And should this be documented on the wiki? (21:38:34) elliss: Does quaid still have to counter-sign ? (21:38:47) elliss: CLA requests I mean (21:39:15) elliss: Yes, unless I'm wrong (21:39:32) elliss: and T&C is attached to the Wiki already (21:39:32) stickster: Access to the CVS groups requires approval, if that's what you mean (21:39:58) elliss: I'd forgotten the exact process (21:40:32) stickster: The CLA is just a legal agreement stating that the contributor won't knowingly blargy-blarg.... (21:41:03) stickster: So it doesn't use any technical measures to control access to the wiki, but I think you're right that it would be a good idea (21:41:21) stickster: Especially since some of these docs are going to end up packaged either in Core or Extras (21:41:50) stickster: Which brings me to my only status report (21:42:07) stickster: Did anyone update their local docs CVS and try the packaging I built on example-tutorial? (21:42:20) stickster: Current known issues: (21:42:32) stickster: 1. No fedora-doc-common RPM, so you can't install it yet (21:42:46) stickster: 2. Not i18n'd at all, yet (21:43:13) stickster: 3. Waiting on redhat-menus developers to OK adding back in a "Documentation" menu for our use (21:43:42) elliss: ? (21:43:48) elliss: Is that needed ? (21:44:00) elliss: Separate from desktop help viewers (21:44:32) stickster: Yes... Because I found there are "features" of both yelp and khelpviewer (khelpreader? whatever) that make our docs sink several levels down, out of sight and thus, sadly, out of mind (21:44:45) elliss: Ah (21:44:57) stickster: Neither has, as far as I can tell, a feature for dropping a top-level docs group in so that the front page of the help viewer features our official docs (21:45:18) stickster: That part does, in fact, work though -- scrollkeeper will take the package, and I can read it in the help viewer (21:45:32) elliss: I'm sure that SUSE have done this (21:45:55) elliss: Though obviously I don't know if they altered yelp (21:45:57) stickster: Right, but probably by munging the upstream packages, which Fedora developers are consciously moving away from... (21:46:26) stickster: This is why we want the Doc menu, so that will launch the appropriate help viewer, or at worst, a browser to the HTML version (21:47:37) stickster: Since Fedora (RH) is the upstream for redhat-menus we have an "in" there :-) (21:48:00) stickster: Speaking of which... I am going to ask quaid to apply some muscle to those guys, they've been delinquent in getting back to us (21:48:19) stickster: OK... so is there any other pressing business? (21:48:34) elliss: Bugzilla cleanout (21:48:49) stickster: I'm all ears (21:48:51) elliss: Arising from discussion of docs in progress (21:49:18) elliss: We've got lots of open bugs for docs that never got into CVS (21:49:29) elliss: http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/EditorAssignments (21:49:58) elliss: Probably about time we just shut most of them down (21:50:44) stickster: I could definitely see shutting down clamav and samba-ldap, no apparent interest in those (21:51:06) stickster: system-hardening has me listed as editor, but I thought I had ceded it for lack of time (21:51:54) elliss: Wasn't there a tracking file in CVS ? (21:52:02) elliss: May be out of sync (21:52:24) stickster: I have the whole CVS here, nothing as far as I can see, just owners/owners.list (21:54:05) elliss: That's what I was thinking of (21:54:20) stickster: OK (21:54:34) stickster: We may need to do one other thing, entity related, across the whole repo (not too big, fortunately) (21:55:20) stickster: 1. Use a TITLE and VERSION tag in all main .xml files to allow for easier packaging (21:55:44) stickster: 2. Eliminate entities from top-level (article or book) (21:55:56) stickster: It's a very small task... (21:56:07) stickster: tcf: Does this sound at all evil to you? (21:58:04) stickster: The practical effect on docs is negligible, but it will make filling in Scrollkeeper OMF files much easier (as opposed to the current "very difficult") (21:58:37) ignacio left the room (quit: Connection timed out). (21:58:37) stickster: I'll propose this on list (21:59:00) elliss: This reminds me... the RPM Guide is OPL, but LEGALNOTICE imports an FDL notice (21:59:57) stickster: We should get a legalnotice-opl.xml file into docs-common/common/ and update docs-common/common/fedora-entities-en.ent to have it as an option (22:00:12) stickster: Is there an easily available OPL in XML? (22:00:23) stickster: I would hate for someone to have to tag one unnecessarily (22:01:19) stickster: Ha, GIYF (22:03:10) stickster: All right, any other AOB? (22:03:42) elliss: Um, GIYF ? (22:03:47) stickster: Google Is Your Friend (22:04:28) tcf: stickster: sorry, someone just came in the office and distracted me (22:04:30) ***tcf catches up (22:04:53) stickster: 's OK, will wait, but I know you're due to leave... (22:06:23) tcf: stickster: not sure if it is evil or not, can you send me an example so I can understand better? (22:06:41) tcf: stickster: or send it to the list like you said, and I'll respond ;-) (22:06:51) stickster: tcf: will do (22:07:19) stickster: OK, I take that as a good ending place (22:07:26) stickster: </meeting> -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051011/5f3dcb20/attachment.sig> From stuart at elsn.org Tue Oct 11 22:12:39 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 23:12:39 +0100 Subject: Minutes for 11 Oct Meeting ? Message-ID: <1129068759.3562.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> It may be better if the chair writes these, but I'll do it if it's easier. -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051011/cf31dc3c/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 11 22:20:47 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 11 Oct 2005 18:20:47 -0400 Subject: Minutes for 11 Oct Meeting ? In-Reply-To: <1129068759.3562.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1129068759.3562.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1129069247.4381.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2005-10-11 at 23:12 +0100, Stuart Ellis wrote: > It may be better if the chair writes these, but I'll do it if it's > easier. As "replacement chair" this week, I'll take care of it, but thanks for the offer! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051011/9dfec500/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 17 14:31:23 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 07:31:23 -0700 Subject: confirm our preference for meeting time (all please respond) Message-ID: <1129559483.18168.67.camel@erato.phig.org> A quick showing of hands, please: Are you satisfied with our meeting time? This is not to rock the boat. I have a potential meeting conflict I'm resolving and our meeting takes precedence. I want to make sure we _like_ our meeting time. thx - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051017/0210df06/attachment.sig> From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Oct 17 14:45:37 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 09:45:37 -0500 Subject: confirm our preference for meeting time (all please respond) In-Reply-To: <1129559483.18168.67.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1129559483.18168.67.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <20051017094537.e355de6a.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered Karsten Wade <kwade at redhat.com>, spake thus: > A quick showing of hands, please: Are you satisfied with our meeting > time? Works for me, mostly. When it doesn't, nothing would have worked anyway, so no need to change on my account. Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051017/2591b331/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 17 18:17:22 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 14:17:22 -0400 Subject: confirm our preference for meeting time (all please respond) In-Reply-To: <1129559483.18168.67.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1129559483.18168.67.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <1129573042.3179.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2005-10-17 at 07:31 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote: > A quick showing of hands, please: Are you satisfied with our meeting > time? > > This is not to rock the boat. I have a potential meeting conflict I'm > resolving and our meeting takes precedence. I want to make sure we > _like_ our meeting time. Given we need to support members across the pond, I'm satisfied. Anything better for me would be much worse for them. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051017/bc0d67ed/attachment.sig> From tfox at redhat.com Tue Oct 18 00:13:34 2005 From: tfox at redhat.com (Tammy Fox) Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2005 20:13:34 -0400 Subject: out this week Message-ID: <1129594414.5722.21.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hi everyone, I won't be able to attend the meeting this week because the doctor has put me on bedrest and no work (I'm checking my email one last time before I put down my laptop for the week.) If you don't see me next week or the next, it is because the doctor has not allowed me to return to work. Take care, Tammy From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Tue Oct 18 19:24:27 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2005 20:24:27 +0100 (BST) Subject: confirm our preference for meeting time (all please respond) In-Reply-To: <1129559483.18168.67.camel@erato.phig.org> References: <1129559483.18168.67.camel@erato.phig.org> Message-ID: <35457.192.168.100.84.1129663467.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> <quote who="Karsten Wade"> > A quick showing of hands, please: Are you satisfied with our meeting > time? Yup. > This is not to rock the boat. I have a potential meeting conflict I'm > resolving and our meeting takes precedence. I want to make sure we > _like_ our meeting time. > > thx - Karsten > -- > Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ > gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 > Red Hat SELinux Guide > http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ > -- > fedora-dsco-list mailing list > fedora-dsco-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-dsco-list > From stuart at elsn.org Wed Oct 19 18:31:18 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 19:31:18 +0100 Subject: IRC Log FDSCo 18 Oct 2005 Message-ID: <1129746678.2821.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> (21:08:03) quaid: <meeting> (21:08:08) quaid: there, now we are officially started (21:08:19) stickster: Error: meeting does not validate ;-D (21:10:09) quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule (21:10:12) quaid: working from there, as usual (21:10:38) quaid: btw, do others see/agree that using that page as our agenda is i) good, ii) ok, whatever, or iii) bad ? (21:11:04) elliss: i) (21:11:25) elliss: It's very helpful (21:11:29) megacoder: -ii) (21:11:46) stickster: OK by me (21:11:49) ***quaid wonders how he knew megacoder would choose ii) (21:11:55) quaid: all right, I like it too (21:12:04) megacoder: I gues my reputation exceeds me... (21:12:09) quaid: anything else you all want to address before diving into that? (21:12:36) ***quaid counts down quickly (21:12:37) elliss: Small thing (21:12:43) quaid: go'head (21:12:50) stickster: nope (21:13:06) elliss: I spoke to the guys at LinuxQuestions at LinuxWorld (21:13:35) elliss: One idea that emerged was having a Fedora namespace on their Wiki (21:13:50) elliss: It's technically possible (21:13:59) elliss: Link... (21:14:29) elliss: http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Main_Page (21:14:53) elliss: Basically they are trying to build a resource for end-users (21:15:55) quaid: off-hand ... I would love to keep us working from one single source, and syndicating that to e.g. linuxquestions.org/wiki/Fedora. (21:16:22) elliss: Yes How this might be used is an open question (21:16:35) elliss: I thought I'd pass it on (21:16:51) quaid: I can't see how we can pull in their content, once it's created, because of licensing (mainly) ... :( ... and I don't want to see us trying to do extra duty where we are thinly stretched already, so our formal contribution to them would also be stemmed by that. (21:16:58) quaid: still, there seems to be an upswelling. (21:17:18) quaid: a need for a single source and/or a strong connection between document repositories. (21:17:26) quaid: something to continue pursuing, definitely. (21:18:02) quaid: megacoder: regarding FOP and gcj, anything new come up? (21:19:06) megacoder: No. I have also reached the end of my Java technowizadry, so I'm not sure how to proceed, given the lack of response to my solicitations. (21:19:49) quaid: ok, I'm going to take this from here. I now have a chain within RH I can use, where previously I could only do advanced begging. (21:19:49) G2: quaid, megacoder I still can't get the Samba tree to work right (21:20:00) quaid: bummer (21:20:04) G2: OS Chain? (21:20:14) quaid: command chain (21:20:58) G2: yeah, open source rather (21:21:09) elliss: Should we alter the task, then ? (21:21:11) megacoder: samba chain? (21:21:20) elliss: On the Wiki (21:21:29) quaid: megacoder: the latex toolchain that Samba has working (21:21:44) megacoder: Oh. I couldn't get that working either. (21:24:51) ***stickster hums Jeopardy theme (21:25:50) quaid: sorry, writing email (21:25:52) quaid: moving on (21:26:15) quaid: about the staging server (21:26:52) quaid: I don't have an update from a few weeks ago, but I had taken this inside and asked for a release engineer to help us make this happen, someone to support Sopwith (21:27:53) quaid: if Sopwith doesn't have anything more on that right now ... I'll just update the status that we are waiting for a reply/more info. (21:28:18) quaid: ok, moving on (21:28:24) quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation (21:28:35) quaid: my first stab at nailing down the current process in one location (21:28:37) quaid: comments? (21:29:16) elliss: We have trans guides in CVS... (21:29:59) quaid: right, which is their guidelines (21:30:11) elliss: Though I can only see a link to the Windows trans guide on fedora.redhat.com (21:30:14) quaid: should add a link to that in the steps, then? (21:30:21) quaid: ? (21:30:33) quaid: /participate/translation-guide/ ? (21:30:35) elliss: Is the main guide on-line somewhere ? (21:31:37) elliss: http://fedora.redhat.com/participate/translation-faq/ (21:31:43) elliss: That's an FAQ (21:31:55) elliss: Can't see a main Guide (21:32:05) elliss: On the Website (21:32:15) quaid: yeah, I've seen it in CVS (21:32:59) quaid: I know someone has ownership of this, Chester Cheng iirc (21:33:03) quaid: s/this/those/ (21:33:11) quaid: I'll point the FAQ for now. (21:34:23) quaid: am I missing something about building the doc? (21:34:37) elliss: Is it broke ? (21:34:42) quaid: or does the Makefile just automagically pull all files in and output different languages, as they appear? (21:35:03) quaid: I was trying to decipher Makefile.common at 1 am after a long day, and couldn't grok it :) (21:35:44) stickster: Doing a make html or make all should automatically do all the languages properly (21:35:50) quaid: ok, cool (21:36:16) megacoder: There are two steps involved: a "template" gets defined and then instantiated with a foo-${LANG} target driven by the ${LANGUAGES} macro from the client Makefile. (21:37:31) ***quaid saves the DocsProject/Translation page with some updates (21:37:34) quaid: ok, that looks better (21:39:41) quaid: is that a clear enough process for now? (21:40:45) elliss: May be add a link to the trans mailing list (21:41:05) stickster: Yes, except don't you need to add step 3.5, set LANGUAGES = en it (21:41:11) stickster: in the Makefile (21:41:46) quaid: ah! (21:41:58) quaid: more wording, please? (21:42:02) quaid: or can you fix the Wiki yourself? (21:43:19) ***quaid wonders if this task is completed ... (21:43:32) quaid: yeah, good enough for now, it will be an updating process, so I'll enter a new task for that. (21:44:41) stickster: I'll make the change (21:45:23) quaid: thx (21:46:33) quaid: ok, on beat writer recruiting (21:47:16) quaid: before I left for vacation, a very properly placed management person volunteered to find people to fill our gaps, if we didn't get enough volunteers. (21:47:48) quaid: I sent out the appeal last night and finalized the details today, so I am crossing all my fingers and toes that will go well enough. (21:48:08) quaid: we may not get much in time for translation, but we have another week for content that can go live on the Web. (21:48:23) stickster: Did Anthony Green make it onto the Java beat? I thought he had agreed to take that (21:49:03) quaid: he did (21:49:25) quaid: but he is about it (21:49:53) quaid: oh, wait, he's not there (21:49:55) quaid: I'll add him now (21:52:35) quaid: G2: anything you want to add about recruiting right now? (21:53:54) quaid: elliss: abnout the XML output, are we comfortable enough that we can get some sort of snapshot this coming weekend that I can jam into the main release notes? (21:53:57) stickster: G2: did you work on the contact email(s) discussed last week? (21:54:57) elliss: quaid: does not nochunks require any special considerations over normal DocBook ? (21:55:09) elliss: stray "not" (21:55:49) quaid: hmmm ... not really (21:55:56) elliss: OK (21:56:10) quaid: I can see unusually deeply nested <section>s as looking weird in a nochunks (21:56:15) quaid: but that's it :) (21:56:46) elliss: Are we starting the Notes from scratch, or should we be importing content from the FC4 CVS ? (21:57:38) quaid: it's all f'uped up (21:57:56) quaid: we haven't done proper tagging and branching, it uses sub-folders for each release (21:58:06) quaid: to answer your question (21:58:19) quaid: we are going to import all old content and review for pruning (21:58:30) quaid: some stuff stays for a few releases, such as the stuff about kernel source (22:02:52) elliss: OK. I can move stuff across tommorrow (22:03:25) quaid: ok, I need to close, we got through the priority 1 items (22:03:42) quaid: I now have a regular meeting that just follows this one, so expect me to be better with timing :) (22:04:11) stickster: ;-) (22:06:33) megacoder: quaid: hint: "</meeting>" is appropriate now... (22:10:16) stickster: </meeting> -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051019/2ab9e34a/attachment.sig> From ghenry at suretecsystems.com Mon Oct 24 18:53:40 2005 From: ghenry at suretecsystems.com (Gavin Henry) Date: Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:53:40 +0100 (BST) Subject: Away all tomorrow Message-ID: <46211.192.168.100.90.1130180020.squirrel@webmail.suretecsystems.com> Sorry Guys. Doing a big server install in Brighton, so long day. Flight out of Aberdeen at 6:30am, back to Aberdeen for 9:45pm, so won't get back home until after that. Cheers. -- Kind Regards, Gavin Henry. Managing Director. T +44 (0) 1224 279484 M +44 (0) 7930 323266 F +44 (0) 1224 742001 E ghenry at suretecsystems.com Open Source. Open Solutions(tm). http://www.suretecsystems.com/ From stickster at gmail.com Tue Oct 25 23:50:07 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Tue, 25 Oct 2005 19:50:07 -0400 Subject: Apologies Message-ID: <1130284207.2967.0.camel@localhost.localdomain> I was unavoidably detained at an offsite today at work, with no Internet connection. Sorry I missed the meeting; I'll look for the minutes to catch up. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051025/f9f05986/attachment.sig> From stuart at elsn.org Tue Oct 25 23:58:37 2005 From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis) Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 00:58:37 +0100 Subject: IRC Log FDSCo 26 Oct 2005 Message-ID: <1130284717.2793.147.camel@localhost.localdomain> (21:10:43) quaid: <meeting> (21:10:50) quaid: this meeting has no quorum, so no formal decisions. (21:11:03) quaid: but we can review status, and talk about stuff of interest to those who are here. (21:11:47) quaid: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule (21:12:25) quaid: lessee, megacoder sent an update that the xmlto changes are going upstream. (21:12:40) quaid: I'm still getting go/no-go details from the Java folks. (21:12:50) megacoder: correct, as usual, King Friday (21:13:10) ***quaid looks around for the trolley car (21:14:47) quaid: ok, I'll punt on a "why saxon and fop" wiki page until I get asked the question again :) (21:15:38) quaid: all right, on DocsRawhide (21:15:47) megacoder: I've gotten no responses about when FOP will go mainline. (21:15:59) quaid: ah, hmm (21:16:04) quaid: you mean, into Core? (21:16:44) megacoder: Anywhere but JPACKAGE. We need them in RPM form, maybe in extras, but in a related repo anyway. (21:17:30) quaid: ok, gotcha (21:17:35) quaid: I'll make sure that doesn't get forgotten. (21:18:56) quaid: so, about DocsRawhide, I tried to get back out of Sopwith's way last week to let him get stuff done. (21:19:40) quaid: I'll hold that status open for the moment (21:19:55) megacoder: Should I hack tidy-bowl to work only on *-en.xml files? (21:20:02) quaid: hmm (21:20:09) Sopwith: quaid: Yea, I just need that magic list of shell commands or a .spec file or something. (21:20:14) quaid: oh, ok (21:20:40) quaid: megacoder: what should we give Sopwith? a list of which CVS and make commands to use? or a .spec file? (21:20:55) Sopwith: I could come up with it myself, but it'll go faster if one of you all does it. (21:21:11) megacoder: Sorry, what does Sopwith want to do again? (21:21:51) quaid: magic scripts that (21:22:02) quaid: - get specifically tagged content from CVS (21:22:13) quaid: -- maybe it uses a .conf file so we can define the tags easily? (21:22:19) quaid: - builds all targets (21:22:29) quaid: - publishes URLs to a Webpage (21:22:31) quaid: </> (21:22:56) megacoder: Dunno how to publish the URL's but if you give me a hint, I'll try my hand at a magic autobuilder script. (21:22:59) quaid: addendum -- conf file could let us specify which modules _and_ which tags within those modules. (21:23:24) quaid: megacoder: reverse that, Sopwith is doing the magic script stuff, but he needs to know what our shell commands are to build docs (21:23:26) quaid: 'make' (21:23:39) quaid: or a .spec file, whichever is best (21:23:54) megacoder: cvs update -rfoo && make all (21:24:05) megacoder: That's it. (21:24:22) quaid: Sopwith: it sounds like megacoder is available to help with the autobuilder stuff, should you need it. (21:24:26) Sopwith: cool (21:24:33) megacoder: OK, fine. (21:24:40) Sopwith: Yea, I can take care of the 'publish to a web page' stuff. (21:24:40) quaid: cool^2 (21:25:14) quaid: Sopwith: yeah, or predictable URLs that we can link from f.r.c/docs and fp.org/wiki (21:27:12) quaid: megacoder: anyway, we call this DocsRawhide because it allows us to give easy access to builds of latest stuff in HEAD, and people can work on docs without having to have a local build environment (21:27:33) quaid: Sopwith: we'll eventually want to do something with the build errors, such as send them to fedora-docs-commits (21:27:56) megacoder: I see. (21:28:19) Sopwith: quaid: Sounds good. (21:28:29) avatraxiom [n=maxka at 216.233.212.131] entered the room. (21:29:39) quaid: ok, beat writer escalation went pretty well, Tim is still tracking down people fo rus (21:30:10) quaid: hopefully we'll have full coverage long before test2 (21:33:05) quaid: no status on general recruitin (21:33:17) quaid: now we get to the fun part, MoinMoin2DBXML (21:33:40) quaid: nman64: I'm working on a full reply, and I'll cc: elliss as well. (21:34:00) nman64: quaid: Great. (21:35:44) quaid: status is -- it went better than expected, thanks to nman64 with Wiki > XML and elliss for getting the pieces in place for review (21:35:54) quaid: it took be about five real hours to do the manual conversion back (21:36:19) quaid: 20% of that was doing visual diffing of content, to save me having to retag with XML what hadn't changed. (21:36:42) quaid: anyway, we'll make some sort of report after our sidebar conversations. (21:36:52) megacoder: On a side note (rim-shot), we now have enough folks here to fill up my XChat scroll bar. (21:37:20) StillBob: No, I am just here three times (21:37:26) megacoder: Group hug (=) (21:37:29) quaid: heh (21:37:48) quaid: megacoder: anytime you want to feel that love again, just make your xchat window less tall :) (21:37:54) EvilBob: Playing musical laptops today (21:38:06) megacoder: quaid: when you say "retag" do you mean XML tags or CVS tags? (21:38:24) quaid: XML in this context (21:38:29) quaid: I've been loose with that one today. (21:38:35) megacoder: Fine. CVS tags are cheap. (21:39:04) quaid: heh (21:39:21) quaid: megacoder: that's the third time I've been asked that, though, showing that I'm being undescriptive about my usage :) (21:40:08) megacoder: "I've been <tagging> ..." vs "I've been cvs -t'ing". (21:40:29) quaid: cool idea (21:40:50) quaid: hey, we made it through priority 1 items! (21:41:05) quaid: I'll just touch what else we can (21:41:11) ***quaid moves xmlto task to compleed (21:41:15) ***megacoder notices Stickster isn't here.. what a cooincidence. (21:41:32) quaid: yeah, freaking slacker (21:42:12) quaid: Hmmm ... example tutorial. (21:42:24) quaid: that depends on Mark and I working on the XML tag guidelines (21:42:39) quaid: I don't have a status on that, but maybe we'll do some work on that when I'm in Raleigh. (21:47:44) EvilBob: I think I have to put the 20 HDD back in this laptop, only getting 6 hours battery life... (21:47:58) EvilBob: Ooops, wrong channel (21:48:01) quaid: ok, I'll start a colophon via the wiki (21:48:02) EvilBob: Sorry guys (21:48:06) quaid: EvilBob: still, that was interesting :) (21:48:43) quaid: elliss: do you need any help with the Anaconda team, re: the Installation Guide? (21:49:08) quaid: ignacio|NotHere: have you had a chance to look at the rpm-guide? Would it help if we built and published the draft somewhere? (21:49:57) EvilBob: quaid, I got a Transmeta based laptop over the weekend, but I am not getting the battry life i expected after a harddrive upgrade. (21:50:54) elliss: quaid: My notional plan was to review t1, update the IG and then push for a tech review, or submit a focused set of questions (21:51:20) quaid: cool (21:51:23) quaid: sounds good (21:51:24) elliss: Anaconda is still being revised (21:52:14) elliss: So may not stabilize for a while longer (21:52:35) elliss: Re: The RPM Guide (21:52:46) quaid: yes? (21:53:17) elliss: I'm putting the tagging in (21:53:38) elliss: it may require some content update also (21:54:00) elliss: But hopefully pnasrat or ignatio can do that (21:54:11) quaid: yeah, exactly (21:54:22) quaid: nasrat was quite excited, he was all set to start the conversion himself :) (21:54:41) elliss: It very large, though, so any help would be good (21:54:55) quaid: elliss: have you had any contact with ignacio|NotHere about it? last I got was a few weeks ago that he would take a look when he had a chance. (21:54:56) elliss: It's a proper book, this one (21:55:10) elliss: quaid: No (21:55:11) quaid: I think there are several people that Nasrat will lead in to help with it (21:55:30) quaid: we could get their help now with the conversion, if you'd like. (21:55:50) elliss: It's dull DocBook stuff (21:56:19) EvilBob: quaid, ignacio|NotHere has been busy with school a bit I know (21:56:32) elliss: But if there's someone else who feels comfortable fixing up ulinks and entities then that would help (21:56:42) elliss: To speed things up (21:57:11) ***quaid would love to, if he wasn't already accountable for converting 4000+ pages to DocBook (21:57:22) quaid: but I'll ask nasrat if he and buddies want to help (21:58:27) quaid: ok, anything else? (22:00:19) quaid: 5 (22:00:20) quaid: 4 (22:00:21) quaid: 3 (22:00:21) quaid: 2 (22:00:22) quaid: 1 (22:00:25) quaid: ! (22:00:29) quaid: </meeting> -- Stuart Ellis stuart at elsn.org Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ GPG key ID: 7098ABEA GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051026/da270874/attachment.sig> From stickster at gmail.com Mon Oct 31 14:44:38 2005 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:44:38 -0500 Subject: Time change Message-ID: <1130769878.2932.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hello all, Would it make sense for us to change our meeting time starting this week to 2100 GMT, to account for the daylight savings time change? That would keep the local time the same as in previous weeks, i.e. Eastern time for the meeting would remain at 1600, Pacific time at 1300, British time at 2100. Without this change, I can no longer make the meetings, so I'm hoping everyone agrees this is reasonable. ;-) -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051031/027b566f/attachment.sig> From kwade at redhat.com Mon Oct 31 14:02:53 2005 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 06:02:53 -0800 Subject: Time change In-Reply-To: <1130769878.2932.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1130769878.2932.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1130767373.12794.585.camel@erato.phig.org> On Mon, 2005-10-31 at 09:44 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote: > Hello all, > > Would it make sense for us to change our meeting time starting this week > to 2100 GMT, to account for the daylight savings time change? That > would keep the local time the same as in previous weeks, i.e. Eastern > time for the meeting would remain at 1600, Pacific time at 1300, British > time at 2100. I don't grok this entirely ... oh, I see, right, we set our meeting against UTC, which doesn't use daylight savings. Philistines! > Without this change, I can no longer make the meetings, so I'm hoping > everyone agrees this is reasonable. ;-) +1 - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Tech Writer * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/ gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41 Red Hat SELinux Guide http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/enterprise/RHEL-4-Manual/selinux-guide/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051031/a53a15be/attachment.sig> From Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com Mon Oct 31 14:08:37 2005 From: Tommy.Reynolds at MegaCoder.com (Tommy Reynolds) Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 08:08:37 -0600 Subject: Time change In-Reply-To: <1130769878.2932.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1130769878.2932.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20051031080837.58323dda.Tommy.Reynolds@MegaCoder.com> Uttered "Paul W. Frields" <stickster at gmail.com>, spake thus: > Would it make sense for us to change our meeting time starting this week > to 2100 GMT, to account for the daylight savings time change? That > would keep the local time the same as in previous weeks, i.e. Eastern > time for the meeting would remain at 1600, Pacific time at 1300, British > time at 2100. This seems a reasonable action, given our switch to a GMT timebase. Heck, I like it just because it stiffs daylight savings time ;-) Cheers -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-dsco-list/attachments/20051031/2057c865/attachment.sig>