IRC log FDSCo 11 Oct 2005

[Stuart Ellis]

(21:06:02) stickster: <meeting>
(21:06:19) stickster: Hi everyone! 
(21:06:56) tcf: hi!
(21:07:05) stickster: I guess I'll just start at the top of the list...
(21:07:29) stickster: I think the FOP stuff, from Tommy's last message,
is in "SOL" status for now
(21:08:08) stickster: Although I note that Anthony Green joined up on
the list and took the Java beat for relnotes
(21:08:16) G2: Yup. It hurts my head thinking about HOP
(21:08:20) G2: fop even
(21:08:33) G2: I need to put them all on the wiki contributors
(21:08:43) stickster: :-) me too...
(21:09:06) stickster: Yes, Anthony is on the EditGroup now, so he should
be able to work on at least the Java relnotes
(21:09:47) stickster: Karsten is "off" for right now, so let's skip the
FDP staging server part
(21:10:03) stickster: Any other status to report with translations? I
have one open issue...
(21:10:50) stickster: It ties into a later task... packaging the docs
(21:11:08) stickster: I may need help from Tommy in writing a better
mousetrap, er, Makefile, to do proper internationalized packages
(21:11:34) stickster: Which brought up the issue of internationalizing
our docs-common/common/ areas
(21:12:28) stickster: I am adding that to the Wiki... any other
thoughts?
(21:14:33) stickster: I know we're moving fast here... did I lose
anyone?
(21:14:52) ***stickster listens to ground for footsteps of angry mob
(21:16:02) stickster: OK then..
(21:16:15) stickster: Shall I move on?
(21:17:15) G2: Fine.
(21:17:27) stickster: Beat writers... Anthony has taken Java... G2, will
you edit the beats to reflect, and drop him an email on list?
(21:18:22) stickster: Also G2, I show you were still on the hook for an
email to drum up writers, correct?
(21:19:51) stickster: I see that XML output from the wiki is basically
OK, needs editorial taggin' and other lovin', but usable... anybody find
differently?
(21:20:14) G2: stickster: yeah.
(21:20:19) G2: stickster: and yeah.
(21:20:26) G2: I'll get that done. tomorrow.
(21:20:33) stickster: G2: sweet, thanks
(21:20:34) G2: and the wiki update for writer
(21:20:40) G2: writers
(21:21:12) stickster: Nothing like a couple tasks to get the head
aching^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hblood boiling, huh?
(21:22:14) stickster: :-D I see the next thing on the list is new
documents... I published new versions of the DevGuide to take care of
UTF-8, also the beta mirror-tutorial. Stuart had some good points to
make, and filed bugs (hurrah!) which I will address and get pushed out
to the f.r.c site
(21:22:25) G2: Ha.
(21:23:31) tcf: stickster: how many new documents do we have under
development?
(21:23:39) stickster: Hmm... hang on
(21:24:29) stickster: In CVS, we have the hardening tutorial
(status: ?), securing-filesystems (status: ?), proxy-guide (status: ?)
(21:24:46) stickster: On Wiki, the Desktop Guide, Admin Guide, and
Security Guide
(21:24:58) G2 left the room (quit: "oops").
(21:25:07) elliss: No Security Guide
(21:25:32) elliss: I wrote that page to be like NewWriters
(21:25:33) stickster: Oh, thought I had seen that in wiki traffic,
sorry... 
(21:25:45) quaid left the room (quit: "G.T.F.O.O.D.").
(21:25:48) stickster: Also Getting Started Guide, Building Packages
Guide, Essential Software, and Testing Guide
(21:25:52) elliss: e.g. short-term fill-in
(21:26:08) stickster: I think the packagers-handbook in CVS will be
consolidated with the Building Packages Guide on wiki
(21:26:15) tcf: right, I saw the guides in wiki, looks like most
outlines for now
(21:26:20) stickster: So that's essentially 9
(21:26:45) stickster: 4 of them pretty big ones
(21:26:52) stickster: (GSG, DUG, AdminG, BPG)
(21:27:04) stickster: BPG maybe not so big... :-)
(21:28:03) stickster: Stuart, have you had a lot of help with the wiki
drafts, or has a lot of this been solo?
(21:28:09) tcf: do we have lead writers for all the wiki guides now?
(21:28:44) elliss: No, and no
(21:29:13) stickster: I see Andrew Hudson on lead for the DUG, Stuart
for Admin, and Ignacio for the BPG
(21:29:50) stickster: Stuart also has lead for "Essential Software"
tutorial...
(21:30:08) elliss: That's an experiment
(21:30:24) elliss: To supplement relnotes with a list of interesting
software
(21:30:35) stickster: Right
(21:30:37) elliss: Haven't done much with it
(21:30:49) stickster: 's OK, seen a lot of other work you've been doing
flying out on the Wiki notices
(21:31:28) stickster: *: What do you all think is the best option for
getting more traffic to the wiki to help with these docs?
(21:32:02) elliss: We already have a list of people interested in
helping :) 
(21:32:09) stickster: Excellent!
(21:32:27) elliss: I meant the list that G2 maintains
(21:32:36) stickster: Oh :(
(21:32:40) stickster: jk
(21:33:02) stickster: All right, G2 is handling the mass email, so let's
all be on the lookout for a list stampede (right? right?)
(21:33:14) elliss: Barrier to entry with Wiki is now so low that it's
barely there :)
(21:33:16) stickster: Hop on the newbies when they show up and hold
hands as needed
(21:33:25) stickster: Wait a minute, that sounded bad
(21:33:30) elliss: Note that CLA may still be required
(21:33:32) G2 [n=ghenry at mail.suretecsystems.com] entered the room.
(21:33:54) elliss: Had a discussion with the LQ guys when at FUDCon
(21:33:56) stickster: Right... I've noticed that many new people are a
little confused by the acct system, so some questions may come up about
how to execute
(21:34:00) stickster: LQ
(21:34:01) stickster: ?
(21:34:09) elliss: LinuxQuestions.org
(21:34:13) stickster: Ah gotcha
(21:34:15) elliss: They also have a wiki
(21:34:28) G2: sorry, bad connection tonight.
(21:34:51) elliss: But didn't solidify copyright/licencing initially
(21:35:04) elliss: Tricky to fix up later
(21:35:08) stickster: Definitely
(21:35:18) G2: How was FUDCon?
(21:35:21) elliss: Once multiple people have modified a page
(21:35:55) elliss: So we may need to ensure CLAs before granting
DocWriters membership
(21:36:09) stickster: Hmm, you may have an excellent point there
(21:36:16) elliss: FUDCon was fairly small
(21:36:53) G2: Need to call it early tonight. I'll do my jobs
tomorrow ;-)
(21:36:56) G2: Night guys
(21:36:58) stickster: G2: k
(21:37:01) stickster: 'night
(21:37:10) elliss: night
(21:37:14) G2 left the room ("See you all tomorrow.").
(21:37:37) stickster: So let's be prepared to hold hands with the
account system then
(21:37:52) elliss: WRT support for new people: #fedora-wiki
(21:38:06) elliss: I've posted IRC hours on my Wiki page
(21:38:10) stickster: elliss: Can you get with Anthony Green and make
sure he does a CLA before working on relnotes?
(21:38:33) stickster: And should this be documented on the wiki?
(21:38:34) elliss: Does quaid still have to counter-sign ?
(21:38:47) elliss: CLA requests I mean
(21:39:15) elliss: Yes, unless I'm wrong
(21:39:32) elliss: and T&C is attached to the Wiki already
(21:39:32) stickster: Access to the CVS groups requires approval, if
that's what you mean
(21:39:58) elliss: I'd forgotten the exact process
(21:40:32) stickster: The CLA is just a legal agreement stating that the
contributor won't knowingly blargy-blarg....
(21:41:03) stickster: So it doesn't use any technical measures to
control access to the wiki, but I think you're right that it would be a
good idea
(21:41:21) stickster: Especially since some of these docs are going to
end up packaged either in Core or Extras
(21:41:50) stickster: Which brings me to my only status report
(21:42:07) stickster: Did anyone update their local docs CVS and try the
packaging I built on example-tutorial?
(21:42:20) stickster: Current known issues:
(21:42:32) stickster: 1. No fedora-doc-common RPM, so you can't install
it yet
(21:42:46) stickster: 2. Not i18n'd at all, yet
(21:43:13) stickster: 3. Waiting on redhat-menus developers to OK adding
back in a "Documentation" menu for our use
(21:43:42) elliss: ?
(21:43:48) elliss: Is that needed ?
(21:44:00) elliss: Separate from desktop help viewers
(21:44:32) stickster: Yes... Because I found there are "features" of
both yelp and khelpviewer (khelpreader? whatever) that make our docs
sink several levels down, out of sight and thus, sadly, out of mind
(21:44:45) elliss: Ah
(21:44:57) stickster: Neither has, as far as I can tell, a feature for
dropping a top-level docs group in so that the front page of the help
viewer features our official docs
(21:45:18) stickster: That part does, in fact, work though --
scrollkeeper will take the package, and I can read it in the help viewer
(21:45:32) elliss: I'm sure that SUSE have done this
(21:45:55) elliss: Though obviously I don't know if they altered yelp
(21:45:57) stickster: Right, but probably by munging the upstream
packages, which Fedora developers are consciously moving away from...
(21:46:26) stickster: This is why we want the Doc menu, so that will
launch the appropriate help viewer, or at worst, a browser to the HTML
version
(21:47:37) stickster: Since Fedora (RH) is the upstream for redhat-menus
we have an "in" there :-)
(21:48:00) stickster: Speaking of which... I am going to ask quaid to
apply some muscle to those guys, they've been delinquent in getting back
to us
(21:48:19) stickster: OK... so is there any other pressing business?
(21:48:34) elliss: Bugzilla cleanout
(21:48:49) stickster: I'm all ears
(21:48:51) elliss: Arising from discussion of docs in progress
(21:49:18) elliss: We've got lots of open bugs for docs that never got
into CVS
(21:49:29) elliss:
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/EditorAssignments
(21:49:58) elliss: Probably about time we just shut most of them down
(21:50:44) stickster: I could definitely see shutting down clamav and
samba-ldap, no apparent interest in those
(21:51:06) stickster: system-hardening has me listed as editor, but I
thought I had ceded it for lack of time
(21:51:54) elliss: Wasn't there a tracking file in CVS ?
(21:52:02) elliss: May be out of sync 
(21:52:24) stickster: I have the whole CVS here, nothing as far as I can
see, just owners/owners.list
(21:54:05) elliss: That's what I was thinking of
(21:54:20) stickster: OK
(21:54:34) stickster: We may need to do one other thing, entity related,
across the whole repo (not too big, fortunately)
(21:55:20) stickster: 1. Use a TITLE and VERSION tag in all main .xml
files to allow for easier packaging
(21:55:44) stickster: 2. Eliminate entities from top-level (article or
book) <title>
(21:55:56) stickster: It's a very small task...
(21:56:07) stickster: tcf: Does this sound at all evil to you?
(21:58:04) stickster: The practical effect on docs is negligible, but it
will make filling in Scrollkeeper OMF files much easier (as opposed to
the current "very difficult")
(21:58:37) ignacio left the room (quit: Connection timed out).
(21:58:37) stickster: I'll propose this on list
(21:59:00) elliss: This reminds me... the RPM Guide is OPL, but
LEGALNOTICE imports an FDL notice
(21:59:57) stickster: We should get a legalnotice-opl.xml file into
docs-common/common/ and update docs-common/common/fedora-entities-en.ent
to have it as an option
(22:00:12) stickster: Is there an easily available OPL in XML?
(22:00:23) stickster: I would hate for someone to have to tag one
unnecessarily
(22:01:19) stickster: Ha, GIYF
(22:03:10) stickster: All right, any other AOB?
(22:03:42) elliss: Um, GIYF ?
(22:03:47) stickster: Google Is Your Friend
(22:04:28) tcf: stickster: sorry, someone just came in the office and
distracted me
(22:04:30) ***tcf catches up
(22:04:53) stickster: 's OK, will wait, but I know you're due to
leave...
(22:06:23) tcf: stickster: not sure if it is evil or not, can you send
me an example so I can understand better?
(22:06:41) tcf: stickster: or send it to the list like you said, and
I'll respond ;-)
(22:06:51) stickster: tcf: will do
(22:07:19) stickster: OK, I take that as a good ending place
(22:07:26) stickster: </meeting>

-- 

Stuart Ellis

stuart at elsn.org

Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

GPG key ID: 7098ABEA
GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E  9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA
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