From stuart at elsn.org Tue May 2 22:41:37 2006
From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis)
Date: Tue, 02 May 2006 23:41:37 +0100
Subject: IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 2nd May 2006
Message-ID: <1146609697.5722.2.camel@localhost.localdomain>
(21:00:32) quaid:
(21:00:38) quaid: howdy, amigos!
(21:00:45) stickster: Hola
(21:00:48) elliss: Hi
(21:00:52) megacoder: ACK
(21:00:53) Eitch: hau
(21:01:07) EvilBob: Greetings
(21:02:13) ghenry: hi all
(21:02:32) ***megacoder thought the furor had died down...
(21:02:32) ghenry: SYN
(21:02:41) EvilBob: ACK
(21:03:06) stickster:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule
(21:03:23) quaid: thanks
(21:03:29) ***quaid lost that from his history and was searching
(21:03:48) megacoder: holy bisync, batman!
(21:04:03) quaid: EvilBob had an addition, should we discuss here
(21:04:07) quaid: it's about
(21:04:15) quaid: relnotes schedule, etc.
(21:04:23) stickster: gofer it
(21:04:31) quaid: basically, it gives us something to work backwards
from to define wtf we need to change and how
(21:04:52) ghenry: I like the Commnad line draft
(21:04:55) quaid: so, how about ... EvilBob and I are meeting following
this meeting to define our first pass at a schedule
(21:05:06) quaid: so we can talk about it -next- week, unless EvilBob
has anything to discuss now?
(21:05:23) EvilBob: Nope, I sent an email tot he list for input
(21:05:41) EvilBob: no need ot take time now when we KNOW little
(21:05:46) EvilBob: s/ot/to
(21:06:08) stickster: ghenry: Yeah, something we've needed for a whlie
now
(21:07:22) ghenry: steal the Debian one ;-)
(21:07:24) ghenry: joking
(21:08:59) stickster: I assume we're building in enough time for
translators?
(21:09:47) quaid: ideally, yes
(21:09:48) EvilBob: stickster: for the release notes?
(21:09:56) stickster: EvilBob: yes
(21:09:56) stickster: And paring down the release notes beats a bit...
(21:10:00) stickster: :-)
(21:10:01) EvilBob: stickster: that is part of my plan yes
(21:10:58) ***quaid finishes his overdone phone call
(21:11:02) quaid: yeah, full attention for IRC!
(21:11:16) EvilBob: the notes started to get out of hand near the end
IMO, we need better control
(21:11:33) stickster: EvilBob: Right on, you're my hero
(21:11:46) EvilBob: Some of the info was redundant
(21:12:07) EvilBob: mostly between the main sections and the summary
(21:12:18) quaid: ok, so that begs some sort of content plan
(21:12:27) EvilBob: I think we need to take a hard look at what makes it
in to the summary
(21:12:29) quaid: something we can point people at and say, "No, stop!"
(21:12:49) stickster: Part of that == deciding how to grab appropriate
content for the summary without turning it into a mini-doc all on its
own :-D
(21:12:51) quaid: we also want to be sure we are addressing the right
categories that people are looking for information.
(21:13:04) quaid: or ...
(21:13:06) EvilBob: stickster: +1
(21:13:24) quaid: make the Summary more useful that it is worth being a
stand-alone, that is, have it show up in more places, etc.
(21:13:32) quaid: like what happened with that darn "press release"
(21:13:44) elliss: +1
(21:13:47) EvilBob: quaid: +1
(21:13:54) elliss: The summary is effectively a press release
(21:14:03) stickster: elliss: disco
(21:14:28) elliss: Reviewers are definitely using it that way, I think
(21:14:43) EvilBob: OK I think we have a rough idea of things we can do
following this meeting and allow for more discussion next week on this
topic item
(21:14:46) quaid: right, we could keep it as stand-alone and pull it in,
if we like, as part of the overview
(21:14:50) quaid: kewl
(21:14:59) stickster: bitchin
(21:15:19) EvilBob: I do not want to take a lot of the boards time now
(21:15:32) megacoder: quaid: did anyone use the press release DTD &
stuff I did?
(21:15:59) quaid: megacoder: let's see ... I definitely did
(21:16:14) megacoder: ge4m
(21:16:15) quaid: but I think what happened was RH press people got
involved, and that derailed the energy
(21:16:30) stickster: :-P
(21:16:40) quaid: so we weren't sure who was supposed to do what, and
putting in more long hours at that point was crazy without a clear plan.
(21:16:51) quaid: so I think the conversion is in CVS, untouched :)
(21:17:04) ***megacoder notices folks keep mentioning "plans"
(21:17:43) stickster: That's a great album
(21:17:48) megacoder: ok, thanks, it was fun anyway
(21:18:26) quaid: megacoder: the point is still the same, that RH has no
way to translate press releases
(21:18:31) stickster: MC <-- often ignored until it's too late
(21:18:50) quaid: megacoder: so, I have it as a personal thing to see if
I can get them to use the press-release module next time :)
(21:19:14) quaid: which goes back to us making certain content
available, and having a schedule we can point PR people at and tell them
they need plain text or whatever to us by X date.
(21:19:31) megacoder: soitainly
(21:19:36) EvilBob: yup
(21:21:07) quaid: ok, then, moving along ...
(21:21:26) quaid: megacoder: have you got what you need or have any
questions/status/trivia about DocsRawhide?
(21:21:59) ***quaid provides http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/ for
this discussion
(21:22:14) megacoder: Last I checked, there was some bogus mirror in the
way so that refreshes got different values
(21:22:18) ***megacoder thanks for the URL
(21:22:44) megacoder: Yup, still bogus mirror
(21:23:02) megacoder: nman knows about it, though
(21:24:10) quaid: are we ready to talk about what we want to do there
next?
(21:24:19) quaid: or if it were working, are we happy with it as-is?
(21:24:25) ***quaid remembers when it worked and how cool that was
(21:25:25) megacoder: On my local system, the build process works
transparently enough that problem logs show up on the web page
(21:25:48) megacoder: so if a doc has any problems, you can see exactly
what it is.
(21:26:26) megacoder: But until that darn bogus mirror gets corrected or
turned off, anyone outside RH is not gonna get anything useful out of
it.
(21:26:37) megacoder: However, until that happens, I'm done.
(21:27:09) quaid: okily-dokily
(21:27:48) megacoder: btw, since I'm not RH, I can't see anything useful
there either ;-)
(21:28:14) quaid: oh, I don't get nothing useful
(21:28:18) quaid: it's broke for me
(21:28:40) ***megacoder feels less isolated, even behind this stupid
dial-up connection...
(21:28:44) ***EvilBob remembers the line from starwars..."these are not
the droids you are looking for"
(21:28:50) quaid: ok, when we see nman next, I'll make sure he has
access to whoever he needs to get that mirror problem unfsck'd
(21:29:27) megacoder: good man; knew I could count on you; knee-cappers
anonymous.
(21:29:55) stickster: quaid wins the Tanya Harding Award for the day
(21:30:08) ***megacoder waits for the video
(21:31:16) ***quaid needs a camera phone with video capability now
(21:31:23) quaid: ok, moving along ...
(21:31:45) quaid: anyone have stuff to talk about packaging? next
milestones? blockades to destroy?
(21:32:01) megacoder: not me
(21:32:43) ghenry: nope
(21:32:50) EvilBob: Has there been anymore talk about breaking the
release notes out of it's current package?
(21:33:01) quaid: ah, yes, that's right ... forgot about that
discussion ...
(21:33:11) EvilBob: So we can push updates to users
(21:33:12) ***stickster realizes he fell asleep during this part, sorry
(21:33:21) quaid: haven't seen anything, no
(21:33:34) EvilBob: is this something we want to take on?
(21:33:49) quaid: it would mean promoting a new package into Core
(21:33:57) quaid: for now we'd need an @redhat.com to own the package
(21:33:59) EvilBob: I am open for input on it, even if it is "Drop your
hairbrained idea Bob"
(21:34:14) quaid: EvilBob: what do you see as the advantages?
(21:34:36) stickster: It's a great idea that is slightly ahead of its
time... but trust me, there will come a time sooner rather than later
(21:34:42) ***stickster doffs FPB hat
(21:34:57) quaid: hmm, ok
(21:34:57) EvilBob: quaid: the default browser page has the
release-notes, as respins become more popular I think this will be a
huge advantage
(21:35:07) quaid: good point, too
(21:35:17) stickster: That's exactly right
(21:35:17) quaid: it is easier to get our package an errata if it is not
part of anothre package
(21:35:25) EvilBob: respins are a FedoraUnity task right now
(21:35:31) stickster: And fedora-release itself is just too darn big to
keep pushing updates
(21:35:41) EvilBob: stickster: I agree
(21:35:41) quaid: ok, I'm for it and will volunteer to be the first
maintainer, but you guys have to actually help write the package :)
(21:36:08) EvilBob: I will do what ever is needed
(21:36:09) stickster: quaid: All we really need, actually, is a
subpackage in fedora-release
(21:36:15) stickster: fedora-release-notes
(21:36:36) quaid: oh?
(21:36:44) stickster: Then it can be built in the regular package, it
only depends on the major version, and can be pushed independently of
the overall fedora-release package
(21:36:44) quaid: what's a sub-package v. a package?
(21:36:50) quaid: ah
(21:36:58) quaid: that means f13 can own it? j/k
(21:36:59) stickster: Built from same source but split out, like foo vs.
foo-devel
(21:37:14) quaid: ic
(21:37:20) stickster: Sure, I bought him beer, he'll capitulate
(21:37:22) ***EvilBob notes starting June 1 Fedora Unity will be
publishing respin ISOs every 30days through the "active life" of the
releases starting with FC5
(21:37:24) stickster: Ha! :-D
(21:37:31) quaid: nice!
(21:37:32) megacoder_ [n=chatzill at host-65-81-219-53.hsv.bellsouth.net]
entered the room.
(21:37:50) stickster: clones rock
(21:37:50) quaid: EvilBob: I'll host torrents when you have them
available
(21:38:04) EvilBob: quaid: that is great
(21:38:21) ***megacoder_ experienced some "backhoe fade" with his
dial-up; back now.
(21:38:29) ***quaid can probably devote a 100kb to it full time
(21:38:32) EvilBob: torrent willbe our primary delivery method
(21:38:38) stickster: EvilBob: Rockin'
(21:38:50) quaid: figured, can't take that personal bandwidth hit
full-on
(21:39:04) quaid: cool, now I can host torrents at fu.phig.org
(21:39:13) ***quaid loves that acronym, FU!
(21:39:28) quaid: megacoder: "Backhoe fade" sounds like a rap song
(21:40:16) megacoder_: It's a telecom term for when an idiot with a
backhoe cuts the phone line...
(21:40:34) quaid: EvilBob: how about you file an RFE against
fedora-release asking for a subpackage fedora-release-notes, and lay out
a few of the points ... add relnotes at fp.org to the Cc: and we'll all be
privy to it
(21:40:46) megacoder_: Derived from "train fade" from when a train
derails and breaks the wires
(21:40:50) quaid: heh
(21:41:14) EvilBob: quaid: OK if that waits a week until we have our
schedule/timeline laid out?
(21:41:24) quaid: good idea
(21:42:06) megacoder_: Does this mean that the relnotes packaging script
then is no longer a special case?
(21:42:24) megacoder_: And stickster can clean all that out of relnotes
"Makefile"?
(21:43:15) stickster: We shall see
(21:43:29) stickster: subpackage is a dumb idea, by the way, glad I got
that out of my system
(21:45:17) quaid: ok, in that case
(21:45:18) stickster: relnotes = most of fedora-release pkg
(21:45:24) stickster: In terms of sheer volume, that is
(21:45:29) quaid: heh
(21:47:34) stickster: So, fedora-relnotes may be better answer
(namespace switched to protect the innocent [packages])
(21:47:52) stickster: megacoder_: I'll see about cleanup :-)
(21:47:57) EvilBob: stickster: OK I will make a note of your suggestion
(21:48:12) ***stickster had a quick fly-by on #fedora-devel to solicit
opinions and was quickly talked out of stupidity
(21:48:15) megacoder_: stickster: good
(21:48:34) ***megacoder_ thinks I should try that...
(21:48:51) stickster: Hm, wait, I think my packaging stuff is gone in
there
(21:50:13) stickster: Not that it will build for all the other cruft ;-)
(21:50:32) stickster: methinks this module needs someone to weed-whack a
li'l
(21:52:05) EvilBob: OK next?
(21:52:52) nman64 [n=nman64 at fedora/nman64] entered the room.
(21:53:07) EvilBob: hey look nman64 is here
(21:53:12) ***stickster is informing f13 about potential plans
(21:53:12) megacoder left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out)).
(21:53:27) EvilBob: stickster: cool
(21:54:40) stickster: next? <-- +1
(21:55:30) EvilBob: stickster: I think we put them to sleep
(21:55:45) megacoder_: last one out turn off the lights
(21:55:56) stickster: heh
(21:56:18) quaid: hmmm
(21:56:26) megacoder_: nman64: any progress on the bogus mirroring of
proxy2?
(21:56:35) quaid: not much more time
(21:56:43) EvilBob: In the next couple weeks as we get the schedule
sorted out I am sure I will have questions for stickster and megacoder_
about the processes
(21:56:54) quaid: we'll use the relnotes schedule to set the schedule
for our MoinMoin2XML next-stages
(21:56:58) nman64: megacoder_: None that I'm aware of. Might poke
Sopwith about that.
(21:57:05) megacoder_: OK
(21:57:13) quaid: I have planz there I am fanning the flames on, hoping
to get a real good fire cooking on that within the next few months.
(21:57:15) megacoder_: Love that EvilBob
(21:57:48) EvilBob: September is going to come fast IMO
(21:57:54) quaid: yep
(21:58:05) EvilBob: I personally want to be ready in advance
(21:58:30) quaid: I'll tell you what ...
(21:58:44) quaid: I should have some idea with 7 days about how my plans
wrt XML from MoinMoin is going
(21:58:58) quaid: I might have to keep it quieter for now, sapling v.
seeds
(21:59:08) EvilBob: I know even if I think we are ready something will
come up
(21:59:18) quaid: but when I know anything definite, I'll get you all
aware and make sure the schedule plans for it
(21:59:24) quaid: then we'll take it public as it can be
(21:59:27) EvilBob: Yup
(21:59:30) quaid: that way I don't look stupid if my planz fall apart :)
(21:59:36) EvilBob: LOL
(22:00:05) EvilBob: quaid: FWI we are working on some of the same things
for FedoraUnity
(22:00:14) ***quaid spent 30 minutes on the phone with a developer
trying to get him fired up on a certain project that includes solving
the MoinMoin problem for me :)
(22:00:23) EvilBob: Sweet
(22:00:25) quaid: EvilBob: right, my plan includes making an open
project ASAP
(22:00:36) quaid: so we can be working with others in the same boat
(22:01:52) megacoder_: Bye, gang, gotta run
(22:01:52) EvilBob: Is there a timeline yet on when there will be a
Plone Transition for more static content?
(22:01:57) EvilBob: thanks Tommy
(22:02:21) megacoder_ left the room (quit: "Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox
1.5.0.3/2006042618]").
(22:02:53) stickster: EvilBob: I think the idea is that the box is ready
for signins now, so it's up to us to start figuring out how to put
content there... uh, NOW
(22:02:58) ***quaid hasn't seen anything
(22:03:00) nman64: EvilBob: It'll happen when our teams make it happen.
The Plone site needs content and theme work.
(22:03:20) stickster: http://fpserv.fedoraproject.org
(22:03:43) EvilBob: nman64: Ok well I will get my minions geared up to
help with that
(22:03:49) stickster: mmm, minions
(22:04:08) quaid: :)
(22:04:10) quaid: speaking of minions
(22:04:12) quaid: I release thee!
(22:04:14) quaid:
--
Stuart Ellis
stuart at elsn.org
Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
GPG key ID: 7098ABEA
GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E 9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA
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From stuart at elsn.org Tue May 9 21:32:52 2006
From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis)
Date: Tue, 09 May 2006 22:32:52 +0100
Subject: IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 9th May 2006
Message-ID: <1147210372.4052.1.camel@localhost.localdomain>
(21:06:32) quaid:
(21:06:54) quaid: first order of business, before the regular stuff
(21:07:45) quaid: Stuart (elliss) is moving to inactive status for
FDSCo, although he's likely to come hang out with us during meetings and
such.
(21:07:57) quaid: sad for us, but hopefully this gives him more
breathing room in his life.
(21:08:16) quaid: elliss: and we're always here when/if you feel like
getting active again :)
(21:08:24) elliss: Thanks.
(21:08:28) ghenry: I should probably do that, since it's overdue. As
that's all I have been doing, hanging ou here.
(21:08:37) quaid: :)
(21:08:44) quaid: now the inactive outnumber the active
(21:08:59) quaid: tcf_home and mjohnson became inactive by default
(21:08:59) ***BobJensen looks around and shrugs
(21:09:07) quaid: yeah, huh
(21:09:21) quaid: well, this project needs fewer committee members and
more just members, but...
(21:09:59) quaid: does anyone feel we need to recruit more FDSCo people?
or focus on just recruiting in general?
(21:10:08) megacoder [n=chatzill at host-216-76-237-169.hsv.bellsouth.net]
entered the room.
(21:10:19) megacoder: I made it ;-)
(21:10:20) ***BobJensen waves to Tommy
(21:10:28) stickster: Documentation is pretty low-hanging fruit, if you
ask me, yet people don't seem to want to stick with even this project
(21:10:34) stickster: Hi megacoder
(21:10:48) megacoder: stickster: tutti frutti!
(21:10:49) elliss: stickster: I'd disagree slightly
(21:11:21) stickster: *note: by low-hanging fruit, I mean, easy to get
involved -- cf. software development
(21:11:24) BobJensen: quaid: we are starting to recruit for FedoraUnity
hope it will result in some cross membership
(21:11:44) Sonar_Guy: BobJensen: I surely hope so.
(21:12:04) elliss: stickster: I think that time to outcome is important
here
(21:12:08) quaid: docs have a stigma, though, right?
(21:12:24) quaid: actually, here's an overall question ...
(21:12:26) BobJensen: quaid: what one?
(21:12:30) BobJensen: LOL
(21:12:34) elliss: You can be live on a Wiki in minutes, but formal docs
take weeks to build
(21:12:38) quaid: do we have anything more important to talk about today
other than growing FDP?
(21:12:42) elliss: and months to complete
(21:13:01) BobJensen: elliss: I agree
(21:13:04) quaid: yet we've proven that at last a good, long article can
be written by many hands in a Wiki
(21:13:09) stickster: My opinion is that if FedoraUnity gets more
members involved in Docs, it means we've failed miserably for several
years -- and I mean that in the best possible way, esp. toward Bob,
Scott and the other Unity guys
(21:13:17) quaid: +1
(21:13:27) quaid: not several years, though, just the last 14 months
(21:13:37) elliss: I would say we had a specific focus
(21:13:38) stickster: == We can pick up lessons from them as we move to
Plone
(21:13:39) quaid: I don't count the time before FDSCo formed against
FDSCo
(21:13:43) Sonar_Guy: stickster: I disagree, we just us a different
approach.
(21:13:55) stickster: quaid: good point, 40% retract
(21:13:57) stickster: :-)
(21:14:15) stickster: Sonar_Guy: don't back down, that's exactly my
point
(21:14:24) stickster: Sonar_Guy: own the awesomeness
(21:14:50) Sonar_Guy: stickster: we are starting to hit some limitations
as we were discussing last night.
(21:15:11) megacoder: We've been looking for authors, but most folks
just want to dash off a postcard
(21:15:16) BobJensen: How can what we learned in Fedora Unity be applied
to FDP? I don't know yet we are only 4 or 5 onths old
(21:15:17) Sonar_Guy: Hopefully we can come up with some changes to make
this easier.
(21:15:25) elliss: megacoder: Right on the nail
(21:16:05) megacoder: How about we start the "Fedora Sticky-Notes
Project"?
(21:16:07) BobJensen: megacoder: true but any of these postcards can be
merged in to larger works by good editors
(21:16:18) stickster: megacoder: There is a point there
(21:16:28) stickster: The FDP work needs to be in stitching the
postcards together
(21:16:38) quaid: maybe we focus on enabling content editors, people who
gather stuff like mether, and others who massage it into a whole.
(21:16:45) stickster: Or at least a goodly portion thereof
(21:16:56) elliss: knowledgebase?
(21:16:57) stickster: quaid: Yes, relnotes as an example
(21:17:09) BobJensen: stickster: I agree
(21:17:18) BobJensen: stickster: perfect example
(21:17:27) quaid: but can we take e.g. the Yum Guide and parse that out
or make it from scraps and pieces?
(21:17:29) megacoder: Classical documentation doesn't appear to be
working here
(21:17:48) stickster: At least not with only four or five people doing
all the writing
(21:17:50) quaid: we need to think more like open source
documentation :)
(21:18:06) quaid: that thinking got us the Beats -> relnotes
(21:18:09) BobJensen: megacoder: I think one reason for that is the
community as a whole, they want quick and easy
(21:18:15) quaid: but that model doesn't work IMHO with larger works.
(21:18:20) quaid: recipes
(21:18:26) quaid: maybe ... we can focus
(21:18:31) quaid: on getting a kbase-like thingie together
(21:18:42) quaid: and we can troll fforum.o, fu.o etc.
(21:18:58) quaid: and get ppl's permissions to publish their recipes,
like the way FEdoranews.org was but with more fact checking
(21:19:03) quaid: and best practice checking.
(21:19:18) quaid: if the recipes could be rated
(21:19:20) stickster: Does anyone see the input from RH docs as being a
positive move? I.e., massaging a big base of already-written stuff as
opposed to starting from scratch?
(21:19:25) quaid: a developer and a social rating ...
(21:19:35) quaid: stickster: yes, conceptually
(21:19:44) megacoder: Nope. "Drive-by documentation" ie. wiki / plone(?)
IMHO should be focussed on a topic basis.
(21:19:47) quaid: stickster: but it requires an editorial hand, do we
have that? is RH supplying that?
(21:19:51) elliss: I'd say possibly not from experience
(21:20:10) elliss: Sun dropped a load of docs on GNOME
(21:20:19) BobJensen: stickster: I am looking forward to the chance to
take on those large items and make them Fedora Focused
(21:20:20) elliss: More than the community could carry
(21:20:24) quaid: was it a smelly load?
(21:20:24) megacoder: Editors will then need to construct the "doc" from
all the post-its
(21:20:46) quaid: updating a guide for a release is HUGE work
(21:20:54) quaid: and we have three-times the releases that RHEL does
now
(21:20:59) BobJensen: true
(21:21:17) quaid: I've warned for a while that the "drop a smelly load
of docs on Fedora" approach wouldn't work
(21:21:40) quaid: do we want docs from RH that don't have an owner who
at least shepherds?
(21:21:52) quaid: similar to ... if we tried to do a man page update
(21:21:55) quaid: or modify docs from LDP
(21:22:03) quaid: tons of work, have to be checked for each release,
etc.
(21:22:12) megacoder: Are these just docs qua docs or Fedora-specific
docs? Isn't that our remit?
(21:22:18) Eitch left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(21:22:24) stickster: quaid: w/r/t recipes, as long as the vast majority
of the "community" still thinks "disable SELinux" and "install [Nvidia|
ATi] proprietary drivers" is a solution, I'd say ratings are for crap.
(21:22:43) quaid: megacoder: RHEL docs based on RHEL 4, meaning FC 3
needing updating to FC 5 facts.
(21:22:57) quaid: stickster: which is why we have a developer.technical
rating as well
(21:23:13) quaid: and show at the top the recipes with the highest
_developer_ level approval
(21:23:29) megacoder: How do we get out of the relnotes churn long
enough to care?
(21:23:39) BobJensen: anyone who suggests to disable selinux for more
than testing is foolish
(21:23:42) stickster: What does the social rating provide then?
Readability check?
(21:23:51) quaid: hmmm ...
(21:24:07) megacoder: BobJensen: disagree on that. maybe later, though.
(21:24:09) quaid: well, social rating may not have value, if we can't
trust the social group to do smart things sometimes.
(21:24:24) stickster: Heh
(21:24:30) quaid: megacoder: to answer you ...
(21:24:36) quaid: megacoder: we need to segment ourselves a bit
(21:24:41) quaid: and not have all-hands on relnotes
(21:24:47) stickster: quaid: +1`
(21:24:48) BobJensen: megacoder: using the tools to make things work
with SElinux is a much better option in my opinion
(21:24:48) quaid: even if relnotes get smaller as a result
(21:25:07) BobJensen: quaid: +1
(21:25:35) quaid: yeah, see, having me be the EiC meant I could delegate
to the whole group, so I did :D
(21:25:47) stickster: BobJensen's fully on board with the "let's not
play Norman Mailer" idea :-D
(21:26:01) quaid: what if we had general topic areas
(21:26:02) megacoder: And now EvilBob has the ball; I like it
(21:26:07) quaid: and editors for each, who can assemble teams
(21:26:15) quaid: similar to the way the beats are ...
(21:26:32) quaid: even a relation there, so that all content goes into a
recipe index, and only some comes back out into the relnotes.
(21:26:35) Sonar_Guy: And now with the work change for me I should have
some more time to work on Docs.
(21:26:52) quaid: Sonar_Guy: getting your land legs back, eh?
(21:26:54) stickster: quaid: Whence, pray tell, do we assemble these
hordes of workers?
(21:27:00) quaid: :D
(21:27:18) quaid: if we absorb the Beats
(21:27:24) ***stickster swings dead cat around and hits... er, nothing
(21:27:24) quaid: and make the relnotes only _one_ of the work outputs
(21:27:26) Sonar_Guy: quaid: Yup
(21:27:56) quaid: I mean, each of the little bits on many topics in the
relnotes could == a full article
(21:27:57) quaid: so ...
(21:28:11) nman64_away is now known as nman64
(21:28:12) quaid: we have the beat group ... decide next what the groups
are ... picjk
(21:28:23) quaid: pick three or five topics from all the pile of Beat
notes
(21:28:30) quaid: and make them into longer works.
(21:28:34) quaid: as a group.
(21:28:53) quaid: we can consolidate the beat groups a bit, so it's more
like 2 to 5 people per beat
(21:29:10) quaid: like the earliest model, where all daemons (services)
were in one group.
(21:29:37) quaid: we can choose to regroup the final output of the
relnotes, but have wider focuses.
(21:29:44) quaid: 'course ... what if they all say no?
(21:29:59) BobJensen: we hunt new minions
(21:30:04) quaid: this is more of a concept and a way to continue the
wave, than a shangai'd army
(21:30:25) quaid: BobJensen: right, and use the success and model of the
other as a selling point
(21:30:35) ghenry: yes, sounds good
(21:30:52) quaid: "Now you can not only contribute to the release notes
with the same work ... but your group will output several articles or a
guide."
(21:30:56) ghenry: my net connection is flaky tonight, so my comments
are a bit wavy
(21:31:18) quaid: this gives us somewhere to parse the RH docs into,
conceptually, so we're not handling big guides, but still do something
to provide value to that content.
(21:31:19) BobJensen: I think all of us have time to do small parts of a
bigger picture as long as we can project track and keep things moving if
someone "falls down"
(21:31:33) quaid: right, project tracking is the key
(21:31:43) quaid: and double coverage where we can, buddy system
(21:31:48) BobJensen: Yup
(21:31:53) Sonar_Guy: +1
(21:31:56) BobJensen: +1
(21:32:15) BobJensen: we do that in Unity quite a bit, team of people
getitng things done
(21:32:49) Sonar_Guy: The whole issue with my working on the install
guide came to a screeching halt due to work. A buddy system would help
out there.
(21:32:56) quaid: yes
(21:33:00) quaid: we have that with trans
(21:33:06) quaid: one person gets busy and the whole language falls down
(21:33:16) quaid: that's improving with time, but it is what it is
(21:34:13) quaid: ok, and how can we use Plone to make this work even
better?
(21:34:30) quaid: give people ... a workbench .. with a queue of small
items to work on?
(21:34:41) quaid: the work itself could be out in the wiki with just a
paragraph that points at the URL
(21:35:03) quaid: just so it is being tracked somehow, and we can
automate the Wiki -> XML in CVS managed by Plone part
(21:35:03) BobJensen: the way we have plone set up is simple many can
contribute, some can edit and few publish
(21:35:12) quaid: exactly
(21:35:40) quaid: I think if the first thing we gave a new writer was an
empty queue, a way to fill it, and some suggested bits to work on based
on interest that we can push into their queue ...
(21:35:46) quaid: that would help a lot of the bench warmers
(21:36:15) BobJensen: yup
(21:36:34) Sonar_Guy: +1
(21:37:22) Sonar_Guy: If it is easy for the writer to submit the content
it is more likely for them to generate the document.
(21:37:33) quaid: I'm woefully ign'nt about our Plone setup
(21:37:35) quaid: need to fix that ASAP
(21:37:41) quaid: but this seems feasible, yes?
(21:38:02) Sonar_Guy: +1
(21:38:06) quaid: ok, I'm going to reiterate where I think we are:
(21:38:09) quaid:
(21:38:22) quaid: 1. Consolidate Beats into functional groups to work on
topic areas
(21:38:29) quaid: 2. Relnotes are only one of the Beats outputs
(21:38:32) stickster: quaid: I am seeing the CVS/XML solution dissolving
in favor of Plone/XHTML
(21:38:44) quaid: 3. Enable Beat groups to contribute little bits by
using a queue within the CMS
(21:38:55) quaid: 3.1 This means each Beat needs a strong leader/editor
type
(21:39:47) quaid: 4. Beat groups work on outputting one guide or several
tutorials based around their area
(21:40:13) quaid: 5. Incoming docs e.g. RHEL docs, usable LDP or other
OPL content, etc. are parsed into the Beats in chunks
(21:40:31) quaid: chunk == all of the content about a topic area
(21:41:13) quaid: 6. We ask all writers to choose one or more Beats to
join, now and when new; then we can populate their queue with relevant
bits to work on.
(21:41:34) quaid: 7. Every content area gets double+ coverage to give
relief/back-up
(21:41:57) quaid: that it?
(21:42:21) BobJensen: good start
(21:42:31) quaid:
(21:42:44) quaid: how soon can we have the infrastructure in place?
(21:42:55) quaid: it would be good to announce when we are actually
ready for people to do something.
(21:43:00) Sonar_Guy: quaid: one last thing KISS Keep It Stupidly
Simple!!
(21:43:14) quaid: ok
(21:43:18) quaid: how can we make this simpler?
(21:44:56) Sonar_Guy: Another member of unity and I were talking last
night about how hard it is to work on a structured document. If there
was a form that took the information and fomated it without the user
doing the formatting it would make it easier for a poster to generate
documentation.
(21:45:40) stickster: Sonar_Guy: Just to make sure I'm understanding,
what do you mean by "structured" and what is hard about it?
(21:46:05) Sonar_Guy: The form would put it into a rough draft fomat for
the editor to tweak and help keep moving it forward throught
publication.
(21:46:40) Sonar_Guy: CVS and the format for DOC is overwhelming to a
new poster. As is our template on FU.o.
(21:46:54) quaid: thought templates were supposed to make it easier
(21:47:12) quaid: Sonar_Gal: how about structured text?
(21:47:13) Sonar_Guy: They are, but templates are only so good.
(21:47:19) quaid: i.e., email. .. which some people find way hard, too
(21:47:31) quaid: here's my thing ...
(21:48:04) quaid: with few, very rare exceptions *cough* mether *cough*,
if someone isn't interested in the minimal editing and structure for
their work, they are too much effort for us out of the gate
(21:48:28) quaid: I'd rather miss out on one or two of those rarities,
and I know we do!, but am I wrong about that?
(21:48:39) stickster: Sonar_Guy: +1 on the CVS call, +1 on DocBook even
(21:49:04) stickster: But at *SOME* point, people have to be willing to
do some structuring in their doc -- otherwise how is the editor supposed
to read the organization to know if it makes sense?
(21:49:20) quaid: I think plain text structuring is enough
(21:49:21) stickster: I mean, you don't write a high school term paper
without writing an outline, right?
(21:49:27) quaid: for a draft, anyway
(21:49:27) stickster: quaid: Yup
(21:49:31) BobJensen: stickster: that is what makes our template hard
for some for FU.o
(21:49:40) stickster: quaid: People should also be looking at the Plone
editor to see how it works
(21:49:47) quaid: maybe we need a plain text template for people to
follow
(21:49:53) Sonar_Guy: Agreed, however if the outline was a form to fill
in, that makes it easy.
(21:49:59) BobJensen: stickster: they are required to think about the
structure of the post first
(21:50:05) stickster: as I mentioned before, I think CVS/XML are going
to fall into disuse in favor of Plone's XHTML
(21:50:09) ghenry: bens up, have to dash. by efor now
(21:50:12) ghenry left the room (quit: "oops").
(21:50:31) stickster: Sonar_Guy: How do you fill in an outline for an
unknown topic, other than just the introduction (purpose, audience,
etc.)?
(21:50:50) stickster: If that's all you're looking for... I can have one
ready for you in an hour
(21:50:55) stickster: :-)
(21:51:15) megacoder: It's called "ooffice", isn't it ;-)
(21:51:55) stickster: Heh
(21:51:57) Sonar_Guy: Most people do not understand document flow,
having a form that walks them through filling out the outline and then
Fleshing out the outline into a rough document will make it easier for a
poster to generate the type of documentation needed.
(21:52:07) quaid:
http://people.redhat.com/kwade/fedora-docs/text-template.txt
(21:52:15) BobJensen: lol
(21:52:32) megacoder: If folks can't even manage to generate an outline,
should be believe their technical info?
(21:52:32) quaid: hmm .. a form
(21:52:46) quaid: 1. What topics do you want to cover? List them
separated by commas
(21:52:48) megacoder: s/be/we/g
(21:52:56) quaid: then those become the top levelsl, etc.
(21:53:19) quaid: megacoder: yeah, see, that's where I keep stopping at
(21:53:21) quaid: how low do we go?
(21:53:30) quaid: we have google for that already
(21:53:31) stickster: So now we're going to teach people how to write?
(21:53:49) stickster: Umm... isn't that a little like the developers
spending their time teaching people how to program?
(21:54:01) stickster: megacoder: +1, btw
(21:54:09) megacoder: I know: I'll invent a documentation language that
uses, get this, INDENTATION to suggest chapters, paragraphs and
sentences and words...
(21:54:22) megacoder: I'll call it MYTHON!
(21:54:24) stickster: Heh
(21:54:41) quaid: lol
(21:54:56) Sonar_Guy: No so much teaching them how to write, but how to
get thier information into the format needed for the docs project.
(21:55:08) megacoder: The folks will need to know about the TAB key and
spelling. Oops, spelling is hard. Gotta work on that one.
(21:55:48) quaid: I don't mind if there is polishing needed
(21:55:59) quaid: that is acceptable in coding projects, too
(21:56:03) quaid: practices, etc.
(21:56:11) mether: so, someone called me here?
(21:56:14) megacoder: Sonar_Guy: we'll take ANYTHING. We have resources
that are just waiting to do format surgery.
(21:56:29) stickster: mether: quaid just tossed your name out, is
all :-)
(21:56:36) BobJensen: mether: no we were just using you as an exmaple
(21:56:50) ***quaid is about to jump on a phone call
(21:57:05) mether: ok. anyone here to format
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung/pup into docbook and publish
it?
(21:57:08) megacoder: XHTML is OK because I can morph that into DocBook
XML easily enough. You give me the content, we can package it.
(21:57:32) Sonar_Guy: Ok, then that solves that issue.
(21:57:38) BobJensen: megacoder: Tommy that sounds like a challenge....
(21:57:47) BobJensen: hehehe
(21:57:51) quaid: please continue without me, anyone can call meeting
closed when it's obvious :)
(21:58:07) BobJensen: Our thanks quaid
(21:58:21) megacoder: Not a challenge, just a restatement of our current
position which has gotten LITTLE or NO content submittals
(21:58:24) quaid: moi aussi
(21:58:59) BobJensen: megacoder: I know I was only joking
(21:59:23) megacoder: Smiley when you say that, Stranger ;-P
(21:59:27) stickster: megacoder: Meaning, formatting is not the problem,
the lack of content continues to be the problem?
(21:59:29) megacoder: I know
(21:59:40) megacoder: stickster: got it in one
(21:59:52) stickster: megacoder: Just wanted to make sure the world
hadn't passed me by... again
(22:00:15) Sonar_Guy: lol
(22:00:21) megacoder: Every think old is new again. (sic)
(22:00:32) mether: so again, we have content here -
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ThomasChung/pup. anyone wants to look at
formatting it?
(22:00:58) megacoder: Heck, I will
(22:01:37) stickster: nman64: Does the Fedora Plone include Kupu?
(22:01:40) mether: ok anyone updates on relicensing of RHEL docs quaid
(22:01:46) BobJensen: mether: I will see what I can do, I have another
guy who wants to get started on something new
(22:01:55) nman64: stickster: Yes.
(22:02:01) stickster: nman64: thanks :-)
(22:02:08) mether: BobJensen, ya. needs a editorial review and
formatting
(22:02:18) tcf_home left the room (quit: Client Quit).
(22:02:24) mether: BobJensen, get people to post on the list so not
everyone ends up doing it
(22:02:38) megacoder: BobJensen: I'm withdrawing my offer then.
(22:03:23) BobJensen: mether: will try to have it done with in the week,
trying to hook up with the other writer has been a little hard at times,
if that plan fails I will take it on single handedly
(22:03:37) mether: ok. whatever works
(22:04:15) stickster: nman64: Can I make a short list of Kupu
"styles" (or whatever the term is) that would be useful, and send them
to you? Is there anywhere I can find the current list of attached CSS so
I can give you more useful input?
(22:04:41) mether: stickster, the workflow for the ideal system that you
posted on fedora-websites list will probably take time. is that a
requirement to redirect f.r.c to fp.org?
(22:05:04) stickster: mether: I don't see why it should hold up
anything, no
(22:05:20) stickster: It's a goal to shoot for, nothing more or less
(22:05:38) megacoder: so long until next time. Cheers
(22:05:46) nman64: stickster: What browser do you use?
(22:05:49) stickster: FDP: btw, Kupu is the (optional?) on-screen editor
in Plone... it produces XHTML.
(22:05:53) stickster: nman64: Firefox
(22:06:10) megacoder left the room (quit: "Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox
1.5.0.3/2006042618]").
(22:06:16) stickster: ...at least I *think* it produces XHTML
(22:06:32) nman64: stickster: Grab the Web Developer extension for
Firefox and use it's CSS features. That's probably the best way to get a
quick look. (And it's a great extension, anyway.)
(22:06:39) stickster: nman64: I have it
(22:06:47) stickster: nman64: Will do
(22:08:01) Sonar_Guy: There are also other editing modules that can be
plugged in besides kupu.
(22:08:16) stickster: Sure
(22:08:46) stickster: The point is, if we have an editor that supports
character styles as well as paragraph styles, that would be ideal for
drafting documents
(22:08:56) stickster: nman64: can Kupu do that?
(22:08:57) Sonar_Guy: +1
(22:09:21) Sonar_Guy: But I believe that tinyMCE is beter suited for
that task.
(22:09:35) BobJensen: tinyMCE has security issues on the past
(22:09:45) nman64: stickster: I'm honestly not sure how extensible Kupu
is, but it's worth looking into. I personally switch off Kupu and use
plain text.
(22:09:59) stickster: nman64: No good for our contributors, unfortch.
(22:10:18) stickster: Sonar_Guy: tinyMCE == Java == no-go for some
people
(22:11:09) stickster: Sonar_Guy: Oh wait, Javascript, I can't read
today.
(22:11:10) stickster: :-(
(22:11:17) nman64: stickster: I've upgraded your Plone account to
Manager. You should be able to poke around the ZMI at
http://fpserv.fedoraproject.org/manage
(22:11:36) stickster: Lesson to all: this is what happens when you bug
the admin enough :-D
(22:11:57) Sonar_Guy: lol
(22:12:05) nman64: From there, the portal_skins item is particularly
valuable. ;-)
(22:13:31) stickster: nman64: Ah, I see, thanks
(22:15:09) stickster: *: All right, anything else at this point then?
(22:16:03) elliss: Yes, minor.
(22:16:11) elliss: RPM Guide
(22:16:33) elliss: I converted this to DocBook a while ago in CVS.
(22:17:02) elliss: With the changes to the build process it probably no
longer builds
(22:17:29) elliss: That won't take long to fix
(22:18:02) elliss: But it also needs someone to go through the
autogenerated DocBook and reformat
(22:18:29) elliss: I did about three or four chapters before the IG took
precedence.
(22:19:10) elliss: I can look about getting it to build again
(22:19:53) elliss: But it needs another contributor to carry it forward.
(22:20:42) stickster: elliss: What sort of reformatting did you find
necessary?
(22:21:00) stickster: (other than fixing file names, sectN -> section,
etc.)
(22:22:18) elliss: I've just looked at my notes...
(22:22:48) ***Sonar_Guy has to run Kids have a concert tonight at school
(22:22:50) elliss: Fixing up the markup for URLs and s like
rpm
(22:22:57) stickster: ah
(22:23:04) elliss: A lot of find and replace
(22:23:15) elliss: About an hour per chapter
(22:23:21) stickster: OK, I will put this on the schedule so we can find
someone to help
(22:23:23) elliss: 30 chapters :)
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From stuart at elsn.org Tue May 16 20:50:45 2006
From: stuart at elsn.org (Stuart Ellis)
Date: Tue, 16 May 2006 21:50:45 +0100
Subject: IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 16th May 2006
Message-ID: <1147812645.11479.0.camel@localhost.localdomain>
(21:14:08) quaid:
(21:14:16) quaid: megacoder said he will be late or absent, btw
(21:14:44) ***stickster will be back in 30 sec
(21:15:07) quaid: hmm
(21:15:10) BobJensen: WHo are the "active" FDSCo members at this time?
(21:15:26) BobJensen: I know some are on leave and so on
(21:15:47) quaid: me, stickster, megacoder ...
(21:16:10) ***stickster shakes head sadly
(21:16:14) quaid: ghenry keeps saying he should be considered inactive,
and he's busy enough to be so :) ... but he is usually here and with the
meeting,w hich is helpful and all that
(21:16:23) quaid: elliss is now in the same boat
(21:16:32) quaid: tcf and mrj have gone way inactive
(21:16:50) ***stickster is not disappointed in people going inactive,
just would like to see more people coming in
(21:16:52) quaid: what has happened is, we've sort of morphed
(21:17:02) ***stickster nominates BobJensen, like, DUH
(21:17:19) quaid: only, see, I thought he wasn't interested in being
tainted :)
(21:17:22) quaid: or is it too late?
(21:17:36) stickster: Heh
(21:17:38) ***quaid seconds the BobJensen nomination
(21:17:48) BobJensen: stickster: I have had that conversation with quaid
also, I did not want at that time to get in the way
(21:17:55) quaid: ha!
(21:18:00) stickster: way of... er, what? ;-D
(21:18:02) quaid: yeah, like the road gets in the way of your wheels
(21:18:09) quaid: *vroom*
(21:18:16) BobJensen: But if people are needed ten i would be willing to
accept
(21:18:17) stickster: *screech* *crash*
(21:18:20) ***quaid hopes that analogy is not misunderstood
(21:18:48) quaid: BobJensen: I think it is more of a matter of making
formal what you are doing already, i.e., are you willing to be
recognized as a leader v. being all secret about it
(21:18:49) BobJensen: Seemed to me that thngs were running well at that
time
(21:18:49) stickster: BobJensen: I'd say the meeting attendance speaks
for itself, so, YES!
(21:18:58) quaid: but not even sopwith gets to keep secret, modesty or
not
(21:19:18) ***quaid likes how stickster and quaid are a quorum :)
(21:19:19) stickster: The Extras model of voting isn't going to make any
sense for this subproject where we have less than a dozen people
seemingly involved anyway :-|
(21:19:22) quaid: dangeroux
(21:19:33) stickster: It's like being Emperor of Luxembourg
(21:19:41) quaid: ok, done deal, BobJensen is official
(21:19:52) BobJensen: K
(21:19:55) quaid: now, how about some of these other cats who do lots of
stuff and like to hang out here
(21:20:04) ***stickster can't wait for the email discussion about how
quaid is becoming despotic... over docs
(21:20:09) elliss: I'm lurking for voting purposes
(21:20:19) elliss: +1 to BobJensen
(21:20:26) quaid: +1 yeah
(21:20:30) elliss: Hope that helps :)
(21:20:34) stickster: Yeah, how about EvilBob, Bob-Laptop, and StillBob?
(21:20:35) quaid: yep
(21:20:45) BobJensen: I would llike to hear a voice from translation
(21:20:50) quaid: stickster: careful or that means we have to take on
diauq, and he's a *bastard*
(21:20:55) stickster: OK then, "Ja"
(21:21:02) ***quaid nominates Eitch
(21:21:12) BobJensen: I would second that
(21:21:21) quaid: was thinking that before you said trans anyway, from a
pure docs perspective
(21:21:27) Eitch: O_O
(21:21:35) Eitch: I'm here
(21:21:49) ***Eitch was playing playstation (vacation rules)
(21:21:53) stickster: Eitch: Not only are you here, you're being
nominated for a FDSCo seat
(21:22:00) quaid: hi Eitch, we've been planning on growing the FDSCo
back to size again, and suddenly are doing it right now :)
(21:22:12) Eitch: hummm :)
(21:22:15) ***quaid digs up URLs
(21:22:19) quaid: Eitch: you can think about it :)
(21:22:21) ***Eitch turns his attention to the meeting
(21:22:36) quaid:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee
(21:22:42) stickster: Yeah, you have 24 hrs to accept the mission or
your document shreds itself
(21:22:52) quaid: Now, if it's going to interfere with my
playstation time ...
(21:23:02) BobJensen: Eitch: I think the board needs a voice that
understands the translation bits of our projects
(21:23:04) stickster: :-D
(21:23:11) stickster: BobJensen: +2
(21:23:20) quaid:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Charter
(21:23:32) quaid: that last one still seems relevant, but I'll review
it :)
(21:24:24) quaid: Eitch: those two pages are a good idea of the intent
of what we are doing, and you see the reality of it here on #fedora-docs
all the time :)
(21:25:31) megacoder [n=reynolds at host-216-76-237-192.hsv.bellsouth.net]
entered the room.
(21:25:49) megacoder: lo
(21:25:50) stickster: Hi megacoder
(21:25:55) ***Eitch reading
(21:26:13) megacoder: Better late than never; and I shall brook no
dissention...
(21:26:29) quaid: megacoder: we decided to hold impromptu elections,
since stickster and I were essentially a quorum by ourselves.
(21:26:29) ***stickster is getting hopelessly behind after having no
'net connection at work for the last month
(21:26:44) quaid: now, of course, we broke that by formally adding
BobJensen to the FDSCo
(21:26:54) quaid: and just extended an invite and time to think to
Eitch
(21:26:57) stickster: we carpe'd the heck outta that diem
(21:27:09) quaid: word
(21:27:11) megacoder: suits
(21:27:31) stickster: was that invective or agreement?
(21:27:43) stickster: :-)
(21:27:45) megacoder: Have I gotten nominated for anything in my
absence?
(21:27:49) quaid: nope
(21:27:53) stickster: god of all Bash
(21:28:01) megacoder: Then it was "suits me".
(21:28:02) BobJensen: LOL
(21:28:06) quaid: but I was going to find out who I need to tackle to
help get webtest working again
(21:28:32) stickster: megacoder was looking into it w/ nman64
(21:28:39) stickster: methinks
(21:29:01) quaid: yeah, something about a proxy or masking host inside
redhat.com?
(21:29:11) megacoder: Yup. Can do no more until RH get their insipid
load-sharing bully out of the way
(21:29:18) quaid: last I heard, sopwith was the person to ask next?
(21:29:23) quaid: ah, the load-sharing
(21:29:29) megacoder: verily
(21:29:45) megacoder: One of the load-sharers ain't mirrored
(21:29:54) stickster: auggghh
(21:29:55) quaid: ok, I'll email Sopwith and find out wtf, Cc: to nman64
and megacoder
(21:30:05) megacoder: bueno
(21:30:13) stickster: He is in my 5:00 mtg
(21:30:53) stickster: email him and I'll follow up then w/o making too
big a deal of it ;-)
(21:31:18) megacoder: Just checked; still broken
(21:32:02) quaid: email emailed
(21:32:47) Eitch: I would be glad to help with translation coordination
in Fedora Docs as a FDSCo member and any other works that I'm capable
of :)
(21:33:03) stickster: 2 fer 2, 'tis
(21:33:38) quaid: Eitch: excellent! welcome (formally)
(21:33:47) quaid: BobJensen: and thanks to you to, man
(21:33:54) quaid: too too too!
(21:34:07) Eitch: ;)
(21:34:13) BobJensen: Nothing is going to change the way I see it
(21:34:18) megacoder: Hey, if Eitch is an example of impromptu
elections, I'm gonna be late more often!
(21:34:24) quaid: "Fedora Docs, where hard work only gets you more of
the same."
(21:34:45) stickster: "FDP, where no good deed goes unpunished."
(21:34:48) quaid: BobJensen: nah, like you say, it's just same stuff
with more words.
(21:34:52) megacoder: It's pinball: if you do everything just right, you
get to do it again.
(21:34:54) BobJensen: Yup
(21:35:32) Eitch: :)
(21:35:43) Eitch: lol
(21:36:45) quaid: ok, that's enough excitement for me, I'm ready for a
npa
(21:36:47) quaid: nap
(21:36:52) quaid: oh, wait, still time left ...
(21:37:10) quaid: oic, it's time for me to "eat crow"
(21:37:35) quaid: meaning, as predicted, I do not get to fund fixes to
MoinMoin XML output from my internal project
(21:37:53) stickster: :-(
(21:37:54) quaid: otoh, we have a Summer of Code proposal we're
sponsoring for the same thing, so maybe the Universe is still OK.
(21:38:59) stickster: Did that make it onto the list under respective
deadlines? Anyone bite yet?
(21:39:08) stickster: Oh, I suppose they're still gathering/sorting
applicants...
(21:39:58) quaid: http://code.google.com/soc/fedora/open.html
(21:40:07) quaid: it's the highest on the list :)
(21:43:00) stickster: I can't read that page :-(
(21:43:18) stickster: But I'll take your word for it
(21:43:22) Eitch: me too
(21:44:10) ***stickster needs to jet shortly...
(21:44:19) quaid: oh, sorry
(21:44:42) quaid: I see nman64 already assigned me as a mentor
(21:45:03) quaid: I'll send a copy of the proposal to the list, if it's
not there
(21:45:06) BobJensen: What is the status of the RH Docs coming our way?
(21:45:40) stickster: The IG stuff was shipped to me a few days ago... I
will be looking at it to see what it's going to take to stitch it
together
(21:45:52) stickster: Other than that I think we're still on hold
(21:45:52) BobJensen: K
(21:46:49) quaid: stickster: I was going to recommend ... that you do
the work in your own SVN, then do a cvs import into cvs.fedora when you
are ready for it to be collaboratable (you've done your agreed upon
work)
(21:47:06) stickster: That would work
(21:47:08) quaid: when you do the import, include a link back to the
original SVN, so we have a breadcrumb to follow,
(21:47:27) quaid:
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From kwade at redhat.com Wed May 24 19:50:53 2006
From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade)
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 12:50:53 -0700
Subject: no IRC log, meeting cancelled 24th May 2006 (eom)
Message-ID: <1148500254.3830.79.camel@erato.phig.org>
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Editor * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/
gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41
Fedora Documentation Project http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
Learn. Network. Experience open source.
Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006
Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/
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From kwade at redhat.com Sun May 28 17:35:10 2006
From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 10:35:10 -0700
Subject: not avail on 30 May, still meet?
Message-ID: <1148837711.8628.385.camel@erato.phig.org>
Hi:
I'm going to be unavailable ... or maybe I am, but I don't know for
sure ... this coming Tuesday.
I encourage you all to continue to meet and discuss:
* FC6 test1 schedule has moved back a week, but it's Beats time
* http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule
First one who wants to, can run the meeting for me. Or do I need to
pick someone? :-D
- Karsten
--
Karsten Wade, RHCE * Sr. Editor * http://people.redhat.com/kwade/
gpg fingerprint: 2680 DBFD D968 3141 0115 5F1B D992 0E06 AD0E 0C41
Fedora Documentation Project http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject
Learn. Network. Experience open source.
Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006
Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/
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From stickster at gmail.com Sun May 28 19:16:20 2006
From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 15:16:20 -0400
Subject: not avail on 30 May, still meet?
In-Reply-To: <1148837711.8628.385.camel@erato.phig.org>
References: <1148837711.8628.385.camel@erato.phig.org>
Message-ID: <1148843780.8197.37.camel@localhost.localdomain>
On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 10:35 -0700, Karsten Wade wrote:
> Hi:
>
> I'm going to be unavailable ... or maybe I am, but I don't know for
> sure ... this coming Tuesday.
>
> I encourage you all to continue to meet and discuss:
>
> * FC6 test1 schedule has moved back a week, but it's Beats time
> * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule
>
> First one who wants to, can run the meeting for me. Or do I need to
> pick someone? :-D
Same goes for me... Actually, Karsten and I will be in the same place.
At least physically. Maybe mentally too. Who knows?
http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/
--
Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
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From stickster at gmail.com Sun May 28 19:17:28 2006
From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields)
Date: Sun, 28 May 2006 15:17:28 -0400
Subject: Summit meetings?
Message-ID: <1148843848.8197.39.camel@localhost.localdomain>
I would like to suggest that any Docs people (other than Karsten and
myself) who are Summit-bound try to get together. I know Karsten is
tied up Tuesday, probably well into night-time, but would anyone else
like to meet up at the reception on Tuesday night?
--
Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/
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