IRC Log FDSCo Meeting 2nd May 2006

[Stuart Ellis]

(21:00:32) quaid: <meeting>
(21:00:38) quaid: howdy, amigos!
(21:00:45) stickster: Hola
(21:00:48) elliss: Hi
(21:00:52) megacoder: ACK
(21:00:53) Eitch: hau
(21:01:07) EvilBob: Greetings
(21:02:13) ghenry: hi all
(21:02:32) ***megacoder thought the furor had died down...
(21:02:32) ghenry: SYN
(21:02:41) EvilBob: ACK
(21:03:06) stickster:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/FedoraDocsSchedule
(21:03:23) quaid: thanks
(21:03:29) ***quaid lost that from his history and was searching
(21:03:48) megacoder: holy bisync, batman!
(21:04:03) quaid: EvilBob had an addition, should we discuss here 
(21:04:07) quaid: it's about
(21:04:15) quaid: relnotes schedule, etc.
(21:04:23) stickster: gofer it
(21:04:31) quaid: basically, it gives us something to work backwards
from to define wtf we need to change and how
(21:04:52) ghenry: I like the Commnad line draft
(21:04:55) quaid: so, how about ... EvilBob and I are meeting following
this meeting to define our first pass at a schedule
(21:05:06) quaid: so we can talk about it -next- week, unless EvilBob
has anything to discuss now?
(21:05:23) EvilBob: Nope, I sent an email tot he list for input
(21:05:41) EvilBob: no need ot take time now when we KNOW little
(21:05:46) EvilBob: s/ot/to
(21:06:08) stickster: ghenry: Yeah, something we've needed for a whlie
now
(21:07:22) ghenry: steal the Debian one ;-)
(21:07:24) ghenry: joking
(21:08:59) stickster: I assume we're building in enough time for
translators?
(21:09:47) quaid: ideally, yes
(21:09:48) EvilBob: stickster: for the release notes?
(21:09:56) stickster: EvilBob: yes
(21:09:56) stickster: And paring down the release notes beats a bit...
(21:10:00) stickster: :-)
(21:10:01) EvilBob: stickster: that is part of my plan yes
(21:10:58) ***quaid finishes his overdone phone call
(21:11:02) quaid: yeah, full attention for IRC!
(21:11:16) EvilBob: the notes started to get out of hand near the end
IMO, we need better control
(21:11:33) stickster: EvilBob: Right on, you're my hero
(21:11:46) EvilBob: Some of the info was redundant
(21:12:07) EvilBob: mostly between the main sections and the summary
(21:12:18) quaid: ok, so that begs some sort of content plan
(21:12:27) EvilBob: I think we need to take a hard look at what makes it
in to the summary
(21:12:29) quaid: something we can point people at and say, "No, stop!"
(21:12:49) stickster: Part of that == deciding how to grab appropriate
content for the summary without turning it into a mini-doc all on its
own :-D
(21:12:51) quaid: we also want to be sure we are addressing the right
categories that people are looking for information.
(21:13:04) quaid: or ...
(21:13:06) EvilBob: stickster: +1
(21:13:24) quaid: make the Summary more useful that it is worth being a
stand-alone, that is, have it show up in more places, etc.
(21:13:32) quaid: like what happened with that darn "press release"
(21:13:44) elliss: +1
(21:13:47) EvilBob: quaid: +1
(21:13:54) elliss: The summary is effectively a press release
(21:14:03) stickster: elliss: disco
(21:14:28) elliss: Reviewers are definitely using it that way, I think
(21:14:43) EvilBob: OK I think we have a rough idea of things we can do
following this meeting and allow for more discussion next week on this
topic item
(21:14:46) quaid: right, we could keep it as stand-alone and pull it in,
if we like, as part of the overview
(21:14:50) quaid: kewl
(21:14:59) stickster: bitchin
(21:15:19) EvilBob: I do not want to take a lot of the boards time now
(21:15:32) megacoder: quaid: did anyone use the press release DTD &
stuff I did?
(21:15:59) quaid: megacoder: let's see ... I definitely did
(21:16:14) megacoder: ge4m
(21:16:15) quaid: but I think what happened was RH press people got
involved, and that derailed the energy
(21:16:30) stickster: :-P
(21:16:40) quaid: so we weren't sure who was supposed to do what, and
putting in more long hours at that point was crazy without a clear plan.
(21:16:51) quaid: so I think the conversion is in CVS, untouched :)
(21:17:04) ***megacoder notices folks keep mentioning "plans"
(21:17:43) stickster: That's a great album
(21:17:48) megacoder: ok, thanks, it was fun anyway
(21:18:26) quaid: megacoder: the point is still the same, that RH has no
way to translate press releases
(21:18:31) stickster: MC <-- often ignored until it's too late
(21:18:50) quaid: megacoder: so, I have it as a personal thing to see if
I can get them to use the press-release module next time :)
(21:19:14) quaid: which goes back to us making certain content
available, and having a schedule we can point PR people at and tell them
they need plain text or whatever to us by X date.
(21:19:31) megacoder: soitainly
(21:19:36) EvilBob: yup
(21:21:07) quaid: ok, then, moving along ...
(21:21:26) quaid: megacoder: have you got what you need or have any
questions/status/trivia about DocsRawhide?
(21:21:59) ***quaid provides http://webtest.fedora.redhat.com/docs/ for
this discussion
(21:22:14) megacoder: Last I checked, there was some bogus mirror in the
way so that refreshes got different values
(21:22:18) ***megacoder thanks for the URL
(21:22:44) megacoder: Yup, still bogus mirror
(21:23:02) megacoder: nman knows about it, though
(21:24:10) quaid: are we ready to talk about what we want to do there
next?
(21:24:19) quaid: or if it were working, are we happy with it as-is?
(21:24:25) ***quaid remembers when it worked and how cool that was
(21:25:25) megacoder: On my local system, the build process works
transparently enough that problem logs show up on the web page
(21:25:48) megacoder: so if a doc has any problems, you can see exactly
what it is.
(21:26:26) megacoder: But until that darn bogus mirror gets corrected or
turned off, anyone outside RH is not gonna get anything useful out of
it.
(21:26:37) megacoder: However, until that happens, I'm done.
(21:27:09) quaid: okily-dokily
(21:27:48) megacoder: btw, since I'm not RH, I can't see anything useful
there either ;-)
(21:28:14) quaid: oh, I don't get nothing useful
(21:28:18) quaid: it's broke for me
(21:28:40) ***megacoder feels less isolated, even behind this stupid
dial-up connection...
(21:28:44) ***EvilBob remembers the line from starwars..."these are not
the droids you are looking for"
(21:28:50) quaid: ok, when we see nman next, I'll make sure he has
access to whoever he needs to get that mirror problem unfsck'd
(21:29:27) megacoder: good man; knew I could count on you; knee-cappers
anonymous.
(21:29:55) stickster: quaid wins the Tanya Harding Award for the day
(21:30:08) ***megacoder waits for the video
(21:31:16) ***quaid needs a camera phone with video capability now
(21:31:23) quaid: ok, moving along ...
(21:31:45) quaid: anyone have stuff to talk about packaging? next
milestones? blockades to destroy?
(21:32:01) megacoder: not me
(21:32:43) ghenry: nope
(21:32:50) EvilBob: Has there been anymore talk about breaking the
release notes out of it's current package?
(21:33:01) quaid: ah, yes, that's right ... forgot about that
discussion ...
(21:33:11) EvilBob: So we can push updates to users
(21:33:12) ***stickster realizes he fell asleep during this part, sorry
(21:33:21) quaid: haven't seen anything, no
(21:33:34) EvilBob: is this something we want to take on?
(21:33:49) quaid: it would mean promoting a new package into Core
(21:33:57) quaid: for now we'd need an @redhat.com to own the package
(21:33:59) EvilBob: I am open for input on it, even if it is "Drop your
hairbrained idea Bob"
(21:34:14) quaid: EvilBob: what do you see as the advantages?
(21:34:36) stickster: It's a great idea that is slightly ahead of its
time... but trust me, there will come a time sooner rather than later
(21:34:42) ***stickster doffs FPB hat
(21:34:57) quaid: hmm, ok
(21:34:57) EvilBob: quaid: the default browser page has the
release-notes, as respins become more popular I think this will be a
huge advantage
(21:35:07) quaid: good point, too
(21:35:17) stickster: That's exactly right
(21:35:17) quaid: it is easier to get our package an errata if it is not
part of anothre package
(21:35:25) EvilBob: respins are a FedoraUnity task right now
(21:35:31) stickster: And fedora-release itself is just too darn big to
keep pushing updates
(21:35:41) EvilBob: stickster: I agree
(21:35:41) quaid: ok, I'm for it and will volunteer to be the first
maintainer, but you guys have to actually help write the package :)
(21:36:08) EvilBob: I will do what ever is needed
(21:36:09) stickster: quaid: All we really need, actually, is a
subpackage in fedora-release
(21:36:15) stickster: fedora-release-notes
(21:36:36) quaid: oh?
(21:36:44) stickster: Then it can be built in the regular package, it
only depends on the major version, and can be pushed independently of
the overall fedora-release package
(21:36:44) quaid: what's a sub-package v. a package?
(21:36:50) quaid: ah
(21:36:58) quaid: that means f13 can own it? j/k
(21:36:59) stickster: Built from same source but split out, like foo vs.
foo-devel
(21:37:14) quaid: ic
(21:37:20) stickster: Sure, I bought him beer, he'll capitulate
(21:37:22) ***EvilBob notes starting June 1 Fedora Unity will be
publishing respin ISOs every 30days through the "active life" of the
releases starting with FC5
(21:37:24) stickster: Ha! :-D
(21:37:31) quaid: nice!
(21:37:32) megacoder_ [n=chatzill at host-65-81-219-53.hsv.bellsouth.net]
entered the room.
(21:37:50) stickster: clones rock
(21:37:50) quaid: EvilBob: I'll host torrents when you have them
available
(21:38:04) EvilBob: quaid: that is great
(21:38:21) ***megacoder_ experienced some "backhoe fade" with his
dial-up; back now.
(21:38:29) ***quaid can probably devote a 100kb to it full time
(21:38:32) EvilBob: torrent willbe our primary delivery method
(21:38:38) stickster: EvilBob: Rockin'
(21:38:50) quaid: figured, can't take that personal bandwidth hit
full-on
(21:39:04) quaid: cool, now I can host torrents at fu.phig.org
(21:39:13) ***quaid loves that acronym, FU!
(21:39:28) quaid: megacoder: "Backhoe fade" sounds like a rap song
(21:40:16) megacoder_: It's a telecom term for when an idiot with a
backhoe cuts the phone line...
(21:40:34) quaid: EvilBob: how about you file an RFE against
fedora-release asking for a subpackage fedora-release-notes, and lay out
a few of the points ... add relnotes at fp.org to the Cc: and we'll all be
privy to it
(21:40:46) megacoder_: Derived from "train fade" from when a train
derails and breaks the wires
(21:40:50) quaid: heh
(21:41:14) EvilBob: quaid: OK if that waits a week until we have our
schedule/timeline laid out?
(21:41:24) quaid: good idea
(21:42:06) megacoder_: Does this mean that the relnotes packaging script
then is no longer a special case?
(21:42:24) megacoder_: And stickster can clean all that out of relnotes
"Makefile"?
(21:43:15) stickster: We shall see
(21:43:29) stickster: subpackage is a dumb idea, by the way, glad I got
that out of my system
(21:45:17) quaid: ok, in that case 
(21:45:18) stickster: relnotes = most of fedora-release pkg
(21:45:24) stickster: In terms of sheer volume, that is
(21:45:29) quaid: heh
(21:47:34) stickster: So, fedora-relnotes may be better answer
(namespace switched to protect the innocent [packages])
(21:47:52) stickster: megacoder_: I'll see about cleanup :-)
(21:47:57) EvilBob: stickster: OK I will make a note of your suggestion
(21:48:12) ***stickster had a quick fly-by on #fedora-devel to solicit
opinions and was quickly talked out of stupidity
(21:48:15) megacoder_: stickster: good
(21:48:34) ***megacoder_ thinks I should try that...
(21:48:51) stickster: Hm, wait, I think my packaging stuff is gone in
there
(21:50:13) stickster: Not that it will build for all the other cruft ;-)
(21:50:32) stickster: methinks this module needs someone to weed-whack a
li'l
(21:52:05) EvilBob: OK next?
(21:52:52) nman64 [n=nman64 at fedora/nman64] entered the room.
(21:53:07) EvilBob: hey look nman64 is here
(21:53:12) ***stickster is informing f13 about potential plans
(21:53:12) megacoder left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection
timed out)).
(21:53:27) EvilBob: stickster: cool
(21:54:40) stickster: next? <-- +1
(21:55:30) EvilBob: stickster: I think we put them to sleep
(21:55:45) megacoder_: last one out turn off the lights
(21:55:56) stickster: heh
(21:56:18) quaid: hmmm
(21:56:26) megacoder_: nman64: any progress on the bogus mirroring of
proxy2?
(21:56:35) quaid: not much more time
(21:56:43) EvilBob: In the next couple weeks as we get the schedule
sorted out I am sure I will have questions for stickster and megacoder_
about the processes
(21:56:54) quaid: we'll use the relnotes schedule to set the schedule
for our MoinMoin2XML next-stages
(21:56:58) nman64: megacoder_: None that I'm aware of. Might poke
Sopwith about that.
(21:57:05) megacoder_: OK
(21:57:13) quaid: I have planz there I am fanning the flames on, hoping
to get a real good fire cooking on that within the next few months.
(21:57:15) megacoder_: Love that EvilBob 
(21:57:48) EvilBob: September is going to come fast IMO
(21:57:54) quaid: yep
(21:58:05) EvilBob: I personally want to be ready in advance
(21:58:30) quaid: I'll tell you what ...
(21:58:44) quaid: I should have some idea with 7 days about how my plans
wrt XML from MoinMoin is going
(21:58:58) quaid: I might have to keep it quieter for now, sapling v.
seeds
(21:59:08) EvilBob: I know even if I think we are ready something will
come up
(21:59:18) quaid: but when I know anything definite, I'll get you all
aware and make sure the schedule plans for it
(21:59:24) quaid: then we'll take it public as it can be
(21:59:27) EvilBob: Yup
(21:59:30) quaid: that way I don't look stupid if my planz fall apart :)
(21:59:36) EvilBob: LOL
(22:00:05) EvilBob: quaid: FWI we are working on some of the same things
for FedoraUnity
(22:00:14) ***quaid spent 30 minutes on the phone with a developer
trying to get him fired up on a certain project that includes solving
the MoinMoin problem for me :)
(22:00:23) EvilBob: Sweet
(22:00:25) quaid: EvilBob: right, my plan includes making an open
project ASAP
(22:00:36) quaid: so we can be working with others in the same boat
(22:01:52) megacoder_: Bye, gang, gotta run
(22:01:52) EvilBob: Is there a timeline yet on when there will be a
Plone Transition for more static content?
(22:01:57) EvilBob: thanks Tommy
(22:02:21) megacoder_ left the room (quit: "Chatzilla 0.9.73 [Firefox
1.5.0.3/2006042618]").
(22:02:53) stickster: EvilBob: I think the idea is that the box is ready
for signins now, so it's up to us to start figuring out how to put
content there... uh, NOW
(22:02:58) ***quaid hasn't seen anything
(22:03:00) nman64: EvilBob: It'll happen when our teams make it happen.
The Plone site needs content and theme work.
(22:03:20) stickster: http://fpserv.fedoraproject.org
(22:03:43) EvilBob: nman64: Ok well I will get my minions geared up to
help with that
(22:03:49) stickster: mmm, minions
(22:04:08) quaid: :)
(22:04:10) quaid: speaking of minions
(22:04:12) quaid: I release thee!
(22:04:14) quaid: </meeting>

-- 

Stuart Ellis

stuart at elsn.org

Fedora Documentation Project: http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/docs/

GPG key ID: 7098ABEA
GPG key fingerprint: 68B0 E291 FB19 C845 E60E  9569 292E E365 7098 ABEA
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