From kwade at redhat.com Wed Sep 6 00:58:08 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 05 Sep 2006 17:58:08 -0700 Subject: IRC log FDSCo meeting 05-Sep-2006 Message-ID: <1157504288.22766.57.camel@erato.phig.org> as per the new rules, we are just doing stuff and whoever is here == quorum unless we detect gross negligence, etc. :) right-o * quaid digs up that shed-yool <-- [splinux] has quit (Remote closed the connection) http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule Looks like Thursday I need to pick up PO for IG http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#guides-schedule quaid: I show today was the day for another relnotes deadline mailbomb to f-{devel,maintainers}-list Can you copy/paste your previous email? heh, f-spam-l word jeremy posted a message to anaconda-devel-list with a link to the IG candidate I put up as a tarball on the wiki So far, no feedback, + or - Packaging update: Did a LOT of work on OMF to get it "just right" for release notes It will probably be OK for Makefile.common While doing this, I discovered that we probably have some ability to make modules with multiple documents... it will take some pretty intense Make-fu but it should be possible... probably won't even involve breaking anything. That's for the post-FC6 timeframe... maybe :-) --> singh (n=aalam at 220.224.50.116) has joined #fedora-docs * stickster doesn't have anything else to report this week As I told f13 earlier, many of the current PO (9 locales) are ready to go... others are stalled since the translators didn't do the common entity work required first :-( I sent mail to f-trans-l to see if anyone could get any done, but it's pretty late in the game modules == cool hoping that we get some -fu from the RHEL team, in terms of toolchain goodness Um... ok :-) but no fingers crossed until we see the stuff yeah * stickster does a Rip van Winkle in the meantime :-D just keep stuff on the list, jfearn reads jfeam? Oh, sorry, font rendering problem :-D heh DejaVu Sans Condensed has its moments Anyhoo... I don't think I have anything else to report hey, hmm ... there is two days for the entities, maybe we'll catch more Umm... yeah, for Web release, yeah I did note that in the email oh, right, sorry I was transposing RN on IG np, I understood or vice-v or v-v v-v-va-voom ok, updating the taskschedule I'm owning the DUG stuff, too Wow, amazing how much faster we move when people aren't making you work for a living! as I said, not going to seek translation, going to get it baked more Cool re: DUG what is OMF? Did I write too much detail in that Photo section? Ah, uh... Open Metadata Framework? I think... ok It's just a way of describing document metadata where are we with the fedora-release-faq idea/plan/work? Scrollkeeper, which is a system function for tracking that stuff in Fedora, keeps lists of OMFs for online documentation Hmmm I... don't. Er, know. it's here but I don't seem to recall if we decided to do something with it ... it could be in fedora-release-notes as a file so we can link it easily from the splash HTML page I'm reluctant at this point because we have no one providing traction for the latter part of that plan which brings up another point ... weren't we going to push a new splash page for /usr/share/HTML/index.html? That was a Bob thing. yeah, those are related glezos? Yeah, I think they were supposed to get together on list I didn't see anything about it beyond the original mockup. Without a proof of concept at this point I'm very nervous about moving down that road before FC6. It's been a lot of work for me just to get to where we have i18n OMF for the docs I still haven't even finished that completely -- I really need to provide i18n .desktop files as well and that takes some additional doing. or we could break out of the mold and just make something cool happen there is just enough time if e.g. glezos applies hisself :) it should just be files that go into CVS, which reference themselves; it shouldn't affect the package in any way. Yeah, the HTML part is pretty easy I would think But the doc integration is not as much so the FAQ? I put this into the task list, and the FAQ is optional IMO --- tseki_bot is now known as tsekine Well, again, if our contributors step up to the plate we should welcome them But given the amount of time it takes me to do Makefile hacking I can't promise a bunch of packaging integration I can't deliver on time :-( I've got some RH developers bugging me in BZ about i18n for the desktop docs delivery, so I'm trying my best to get it working in a way that we can carry out to all of our CVS The front page thing should be completely doable tho' Like you said, link out anything that isn't ready, and viola. it doesn't seem like it requires makefile help only the FAQ, and that we mark as optional Yup, I say go for the HTML Can you get Dim to work on this? just requested to the list sweetness yeah, we can always just dump the FAQ to HTML, style it, and put that in manually, skipping the XML -> HTML step I'll leave that up to him, or he who takes the challenge Yuck, that doesn't sound good Then if we release the FAQ as a module we have to figure out a way to obsolete files from another RPM? *shudder* hmm ok, I don't see a way around that Too hard to get that part right the first time... what with the CSS stylin' required, I'd say let's just link out to the FAQ for now, and look at how we'll handle it better for next time 'round do you think we should push docs packages to Extras? "CSS stylin' required" == making the page beautifulicious I think it would be cool to have them there I don't see a good reason for them to be in Core so at least we can get them out there and tested sooner, maybe make it possible for people to actually get a new FAQ etc. from Extras? word This was our original plan... well, where wasn't totally settled, was it? Yeah, a little odd because of release notes They're an exception methinks Now with Extras being available in the installer, and having a comps file that we can add to in Extras, much less of a worry cool, we can have a group that people install "Fedora Documentation" or somesuch yep ...it's just taking longer than expected because every time I think we're ready, I find out that I did something incredibly boneheaded and I have to back up halfway and start again TR has been scarce to keep me from shooting myself in the foot... but he hopes to be back around more soon I'm trying to do a better job of understanding what he's done already and extend it I'm starting to get a lot of it that was mysterious to me before The main issue I see now is that docs packaging is not ever going to be a push-button operation for an editor... it will take packaging knowledge to do correctly Which means the neglected DocG is even more necessary than before * quaid fires a request about PDF into f-devel-java-l Ah good! Our stylesheet for PDF sucks in xmlto, so anything we can do for better PDFs is awesome It often works, but is fugly * quaid goes to confirm that lack of content on his nagmail list of pages which is about the last of our task items to discuss, fwiw whew! good meeting! yeah :) AOB? I'm going to continue working on this .desktop issue... if I can get that licked we are a LONG way toward packaging Possibly have a beautiful first run packaging process in place for relnotes for final cool anybody who might help you with it? some connection we can make? nuttin else Well, all the phones I've tried went dead after "Hello, would you like to..." ;-) Tommy is incommunicado for a short time still if you have anyone in particular I might use some special influence on or something If he gets back online in the next week I'll certainly be asking him for help my mythical beer tip jar, for example heh ok, rock on -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Tue Sep 12 21:53:24 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 14:53:24 -0700 Subject: meeting 30 minutes earlier today Message-ID: <1158098005.31449.400.camel@erato.phig.org> Both Paul and I could use the meeting to start 30 minutes earlier, at 4:30 pm PDF/7:30 pm EDT. As it is, I have to leave by 5:15 PDT. But since Paul and I are the only ones to have attended the last few meetings ... :) ... I figure that gives us a one-time, last-minute time switch. Now that Tommy is online, maybe the new time works. Or we have to bump it forward another hour. Or? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Sep 13 00:11:59 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2006 17:11:59 -0700 Subject: IRC log FDSCo meeting 12-SEP-2006 Message-ID: <1158106319.20991.12.camel@erato.phig.org> Just when you thought it was safe to go into the chat room... http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule howdy, homechildren yowza hiya, pop all right, AOB we want to tackle first whilst all are here? Thanks to all for rescheduling for me; I've not liked being away. we have liked it even less :) quaid: Most of my time is being spent on polishing f-r-n for test3 anything to note for FIG/ ? Absolutely no feedback from the anacondans to date So I assume they think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, of course ok I will try and have it out w/in 24 hours of test3 ISO availability and how is that looking? that is, I've been stalling on the DUG I made a huge mistake with sending aalam the wrong POT, but he has reimported it and want to know if we have a new formal target Umm... I didn't set one :-D I think this is a question for f13 I think the spin was going to be Thursday They are trying to shake out some last minute problems a new idea: keep the DUG in Docs/Drafts/, take my time to work on the editing/writing more v. wrangling the XML, and push that to the world as a public beta that works keeping it in the wiki increases the chances 10x that another writer will get frustrated or interested enough to fix it up --> dartmolx (n=dartmolx at 58.71.14.245) has joined #fedora-docs I think that's probably a good answer megacoder: When you get a chance... can you help me with a specific Makefile problem? stickster, ok stickster, now is goot quaid: I'll take this private stickster, now ist goot stickster: on packaging, the new splash page is post-test3, right? and doesn't it have to be index.html? Yes on both counts I'm a little leery of the Javascript idea What javascript idea? Q.v. the list... an idea from Dimitris and we're not going to translate that page? or we are? A way of showing the proper language's RELEASE-NOTES-${LANG}.html page in Firefox default that is, XMLize it? We can, but that doesn't help the browser figure out which one to show on the local file system, since Apache isn't carrying the load of making that happen I think it was also proper index-${LANG}.html, too right I think we should go with the other idea write it in English and have links in other languages to the other language splash pages qYes on the index-${LANG}.html index.html is en_US by default, etc. and do the -$LANG stickster, isn't the proper language setting available inside the browser somehow? Yes, but it has to be either picked up by a script or the server --> noriko (i=noriko at nat/redhat/x-30219a1c6297e55c) has joined #fedora-docs but something need to get that info from the browser and serve the content EvilBob: 'Zactly we are dealing with static content When we have Plone this will enable us to do cool things! Yeah, on a file:/// URL I'm thinking of an Xinclude trick that might work. A simple xml wrapper file with its own CSS file that uses the locale to auto-load the proper doc. Does the installer browser have enough foo? could always enable the httpd server in the kernel and have it serve the pages...NOT :-D megacoder: Nope this is not for installer broswer it's for Firefox Or whatever the default browser is post-(install|upgrade) Hm. I'll fiddle offline and report back. hmm, yeah I see that I have an open request to update the schedule for translation; do we think we're going to get translations in? The crazier this gets, the more I think we should be looking at post-FC6 for it for.... what? relnotes? no no, stop it take minimal over nothing :) not relnotes, the splash page OK Ah The file will be part of fedora-release-notes, so we should set this up for release to translators the normal number of days ahead of the projected final release ok (and I'll make sure the POT is updated!) At worst, we will have a static single index.html with links to every provided language. ok has final release been bumped up a week, too? *That's* definitely a f13 question :-) My bet is, yes I guess I'll have to update the schedule ... somehow right after the T3 release I will have some time to help out, I have an obligation to get T3 Live media out for the Kadischi guys, so hopefully I can help out quaid: I'll be on this eveningish, I'll wait for f13 to show up and try to pounce on him to get the skinny on the prospective release schedule Aw crap * stickster has ugly Makefile error on Rawhide for f-r-n ok, i've got to hop off and get the jet OK, let's call it a wrap ok, good by me Happy flying I'm gonna kibitz with MC MegaCoder for some Make-fu stuff updated, irc log on the way -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From stickster at gmail.com Sat Sep 16 18:30:55 2006 From: stickster at gmail.com (Paul W. Frields) Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2006 18:30:55 +0000 Subject: Meeting Tuesday 2006-09-19 Message-ID: <1158431455.30332.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> I won't be able to attend Tuesday's meeting because I am trying to make it to the monthly FredLUG meeting for the first time that night. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project Board: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Board Fedora Docs Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Wed Sep 20 08:11:48 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2006 01:11:48 -0700 Subject: IRC log FDSCo meeting 19-Sep-2006 Message-ID: <1158739909.2714.259.camel@erato.phig.org> shall we talk about http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/TaskSchedule? But it's not hard for people to figure out where I am though :-) Sure, what the hey! or, you know, we could just slack :D Well, we could make it short and sweet Shall I report, mon capitan? The FIG only needs new screenshots... still no Anacondan feedback, but I'm not expecting any at this point I will pick up the translations from test3 this week and check in for a rebuild and post the "beta" to the Web site http://www.linux.org/docs/ldp/howto/User-Group-HOWTO.html quaid: I did have a question about PO files... when you get them from Trans, what exactly do you do with them? Do you overwrite your existing checkout and checkin the new ones? actually, SinghA has been doing it, and that is what I think he does the versioning is in CVS, so you can just overwrite the local copy with impugnity when is/did test three drop(ping)? Oh, OK. I will simply send a message to Trans on Friday to have this done. There was a delay from the last drop since someone munged the PO with CR/LF I did it on the target date, or the day after, but with that problem, it didn't get put in by aalam until 9/15 I want to give them a week at least... the changes should be minimal from there to final We'll make sure the next one is golen *golden ok I'm going to spend part of tonight beefing up my calendar, but we really should see if Plone has a way for us to share calendar information for TODOs and other targets *sigh* Need more time in the day, or to figure out a way to get a job as caddy for Max :-D .ics? Right there ya go so, f13 isn't around to ask ... Right 'sup with test3 release date? Errr... uh? You mean final? oh, sorry, have I been asleep? * quaid is sure he is sub'd to f-announce-l test3 released on last Thurs Right now we are go for the schedule as posted on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Core/Schedule --> alam (n=aalam at 59.94.210.3) has joined #fedora-docs So are docs target dates AFAIK So we'll end up about 9-10 days behind for test3 posting FIG, but we will make schedule for final ok I spent a bunch of time working on revamping the packaging for release-notes... now works like it _should_ I.e. no unnecessary building * quaid has been busy with his Application Stack related duties for the last two weeks so I need to get the DUG announced, too Understood, took a quick look last night at the front page I have one AOB <-- alam has quit (Remote closed the connection) aye? DocG... I would like to take up drafting this on the wiki, I think As evil-twin as that sounds from me * quaid falls off his chair good thing I was standing up already! I mean, not *just* me, but I think we ought to just work on it there, publicly no, this would be a good test for the docbook -> wiki :) and let us easily incorporate the wiki stuff right into it Yeah, and it's just not getting enough traction given the long toolchain for DocBook -> build -> publish right now Even if I was to actually complete major sections of it, the toolchain is in flux often enough that it's easier to fix the wiki than to do it the other way * stickster is just being practical, he thinks <-- singh has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) :) what is the new target date for the FIG? Well, as written on the wiki currently still works for me... i.e. freeze 28 Sep and go on from there oops, freeze 27 then POT to Trans on 28th sorry, i mean for test3? Oh, sorry * stickster is often confused and not responsible for his words aye test3, I will ask for PO back from Trans on the night of the 21st (22nd UTC) and publish it ASAP after that let's say 9/24 (But probably closer to 9/22 or 9/23) --> snowlet (i=snowlet at nat/redhat/x-64b8951bed96281e) has joined #fedora-docs ok stickster: so, packaging is "just right" now? It is very possible that there will be _no_ changes in the text for final, which means we'll be ahead of the game here is the /wiki blurb Packaging is now ''Just Right''; we are working on more changes for the contents of that package, and a new fedora-release-faq based on the [:FAQ:Fedora FAQ] ''may'' be in the works following FC6; we are going to push new docs packages into Extras and make a group of packages available, now useful even during install. Working on new default Web browser home page to replace release notes; aka Splash, see next item. Can we say 95% Just Right? :-) I am antsy about it but that's because I'm, well, just antsy. * stickster dithers hopelessly I need to get a hold of glezos to see if he has tried his style sheet from a HTML build of the XML-version splash source I wrote and posted for him to try ok I wrote DocBook XML for that page, but I may not have given him enough info to work on it against his CSS ah, there's the announcement, on f-devel-l megacoder has written some cool script-fu to autoload the right language HTML page into the browser guess we don't want the genpop at it? genpop? general population it ==? yes anyway, sorry, that was an aside I was on my way down to f-docs-l and saw that :) oh, FC6t3 sorry * stickster needs to be ignored, hard ok, so glezos update is, ready to move to XML? and other stuff I was going to follow-up with f-artwork but didn't he didn't get a reply Yeah, he got some this week I read it on the list... at least Mairin did IIRC A few of the mockups looked very elegant IMHO Yup, I see much discussion from yesterday and today on f-artwork-l quaid: Sorry, I got lured into reading :-) ok, good What is our next step for Splash then? Should I contact Dim and give him explicit instructions for how to test an easy module build using our XML -> HTML toolchain, to make sure his CSS sticks properly? final review version is due tomorrow package changes for it are done? No, not yet http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Schedule#splash-page-schedule But those changes depend on how we're going to fit the pieces together stickster: yes, that sounds like a good thing, or at least ask if he knows the steps and outline them ok * stickster unhappily found out that the XSLT for labeling @id attributes on HTML doesn't work like it should Otherwise, it would have been done already :_( mainly I wanted an early enough date for you to be comfie with I can live with it :-) ok I will email him tonight * stickster did it again OK... I guess that's good for tonight, right? yes sorry, been in dinner land for the last few minutes It's OK (cooking) I'm not as efficient as you RH guys ok -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From kwade at redhat.com Sat Sep 30 02:52:04 2006 From: kwade at redhat.com (Karsten Wade) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:52:04 -0700 Subject: 26-Sep-2006 no meeting occurred Message-ID: <1159584724.19689.87.camel@erato.phig.org> I was busy at a show conference and no one else appears to have showed up either. Something needs to be done here; I'm thinking about it. Do we have a problem that needs solving? Or ...? - Karsten -- Karsten Wade, RHCE, 108 Editor ^ Fedora Documentation Project Sr. Developer Relations Mgr. | fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject quaid.108.redhat.com | gpg key: AD0E0C41 ////////////////////////////////// \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From docs-list at fedoralinks.org Sat Sep 30 17:45:25 2006 From: docs-list at fedoralinks.org (Robert 'Bob' Jensen) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2006 12:45:25 -0500 Subject: Orphaned Drafts and Other Drafts, maybe we can OD Message-ID: <451EAD35.404@fedoralinks.org> There is a Draft on the wiki that I know is orphaned. I think we should talk about a policy for these items at our next meeting. Another point of interest is helping the other projects with documentation. I am trying to learn to package for extras and the info seems to be sparse on this. I have asked for packaging help to learn the basics so I can help with getting the processes documented. Editing help will be needed once I get to that point. The docs for this I would like to work on in our Drafts name space so /Docs/Drafts/Extras/ perhaps. -- Robert 'Bob' Jensen * * http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/BobJensen gpg fingerprint: F9F4 7243 4243 0043 2C45 97AF E8A4 C3AE 42EB 0BC6 Fedora Docs Projects FDSCo http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject