Thanks for answering the roll call. And now, a question.

Tue Apr 17 15:58:54 UTC 2007

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007, Jim Kronebusch wrote:

>> What should Red Hat be doing in the education space?
>
> First off, I don't think that this should be looked at as just 
> "education space".  Many of the approaches to help education could also 
> be sold to businesses.  Businesses need to save money as well, and the 
> education space leads to the business space after high school or 
> college.  So when putting together a model, it may help to look at the 
> education space as a foot in the door to the business space.
>
> Here is a quick background on myself.  I work full time as the Tech 
> Admin for a Senior High School, Junior High School and 3 elementary 
> schools with about 850 students total. I also run a local computer 
> business on the side geared mostly for commercial support along with 
> some residential and 4 other local schools.  I work with Windows, OSX 
> and Linux.
>
> I think thin clients and central system management is the way to go for 
> schools and many businesses.  However I see 2 major setbacks in this 
> area.  First is scalability, currently there is not a foolproof, 
> efficient single setup that can scale many servers with hundreds of 
> clients.  I know that Jim McQuillan has talked to an organization in 
> South America (I believe it is somewhere down there) who has put 
> together an excellent load balanced multi server setup that can handle a 
> few thousand client and he hopes to build this into future releases. 
> But that isn't guaranteed and is definitely a way out in the future. 
> There needs to be a fast and easy way to centrally manage 5000 thin 
> clients with a single server cluster.  This is the main thing keeping 
> Thin clients out of schools in our area.  It just doesn't make sense to 
> manage a separate system in each classroom, they all need to be tied 
> together so profiles and data are available in every classroom.  Sure 
> Samba/LDAP with NFS mounted /home directories are a way to get there, 
> but this isn't always speed friendly and is not widely tested for 
> hardware guidelines. Second is multimedia.  Much of what students need 
> computing for very multimedia based. Terminals (and fat clients for that 
> matter) need to be able to deliver good and consistent sound for all 
> apps.  They also need to be equipped with the necessary software to 
> access all types of online content.  Many sites students use contain 
> Windows Media, Shockwave, Flash, Real Media, Quicktime movies, etc. 
> Schools need a distribution that does this out of the box and is stable 
> doing so.  They also need this all to play from within a web browser.
>
> I am not an advocate of one to one computing being achieved with 
> laptops.  I have overseen laptop programs in the past, and do not think 
> this is the way to go.  They are costly to purchase, costly to maintain, 
> and have a shorter life cycle than thin clients.

I've heard this complaint with laptops elsewhere.

> I personally think that the best way to give students access from home 
> is to have them remotely connect back to the server cluster at the 
> school and work just as they did in school.  This has been done for 
> years in businesses and there should be no reason they can't do it in 
> schools.

Indiana is also doing this.  An interesting side-effect it has on 
students: when they log in from home, they don't conceive of themselves as 
"doing homework".  They think of it as "finishing work at school."  Which 
is a brilliant sleight of hand to accomplish in a kid's mind.  :)

> However remote connection clients for Linux are lacking in comparison to 
> their counter parts.  Windows Remote Desktop can pass sound, communicate 
> with local printers, and is much better at speed.  If I use VNC compared 
> to RDP I simply do not get near the same experience, RDP makes me feel 
> as if I am onsite where VNC has menu and typing lags.  I think an 
> excellent Remote software package would be a great add-on as well.

/me nods.

> So I guess to summarize I would love to see the following come about in 
> the future:
>
> 1. Seamless Cluster Management.  With Windows 2003 server I can fire up 
> a management console and choose server roles, Linux needs this.  I would 
> love that when I fire up my new Redhat Server it asked me what roles I 
> would like to assign to this machine.  Roles could be Primary or 
> Secondary server, Application server (gui to walk through which apps to 
> export to other servers), DHCP server, File Server, Directory Server, 
> DNS Server, etc.  Then when I choose each option it walks me through a 
> little wizard to configure the server role.  If I happen to add a server 
> and choose Secondary, it would allow me to pick which primary server to 
> choose for each role with a simple gui that let me enter in the IP 
> address or name of which server was the primary for File serving, 
> Authentication, Applications and so on.  I really think a nice GUI 
> server role management tool would go a long way.
>
> 2. Strong Multimedia delivery.  I know there has been a lot of talk that 
> a move PulseAudio as opposed to ESD or ARTS should help.  But along with 
> sound multimedia browser integration and a single do all player would be 
> great.  I know multimedia is a must for schools out of the box.
>
> 3. A good compression remote desktop tool that can transport sound and 
> recognize local printers.
>
> 4. RedHat is obviously closely partnered with Dell since RedHat is the 
> only distro Dell will install on their servers.  Work with Dell to 
> package server setups that can handle different sized schools.  If I 
> could call Dell and talk to a server rep and let them know that I am 
> looking at deploying a Redhat based thin client setup in a school with 
> 800 terminals and the rep could tell me that I need servers XYZ and ship 
> them as a configured package that I can just plug into my network and 
> start adding terminals, I would be in heaven.  This wouldn't go just for 
> schools either, businesses could benefit from this as well.  Right now 
> when I mention such a thing to a Dell server Rep they haven't a clue 
> what I am even talking about.  There could be a few case studies and 
> some testing to determine how much hardware is needed and what the most 
> efficient way to cluster would be. (Personally I find a speed hit when 
> using Samba/LDAP with NFS mounted /home directories, there has to be a 
> more efficient way of doing things.)  Redhat is definitely know as a 
> stable server operating system, couple that with Dell hardware support 
> and preconfigured packages, and you could stumble into a goldmine. 
> Maybe if Redhat and Dell worked together you could find 64bit server 
> setups with quad quad core Zeon processors and 32GB of RAM and 4 teamed 
> Gigabit NICS that could handle 1000 clients from a single machine. 
> People like me just don't have the resources to test this sort of thing 
> and see if it is possible.
>
> 5. Work with Dell or some other vendors and build an approved client 
> list that is known to work with the above preconfigured packages out of 
> the box.  This could provide a start to finish package that is 
> guaranteed to work.  Maybe Dell could even look at getting into the thin 
> client market along with RedHat.
>
> 6. Be sure that all common Education apps are in RedHat software 
> repository and can easily be installed with Yum Extender.  I don't think 
> that they need to be prepackaged, but need to be easily searched as 
> Education applications and be available.  A good scheduling/grading 
> appliation such as http://richtech.ca/openadmin/ or 
> http://www.miller-group.net/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1 are 
> a must in this list.
>
> 7. Possibly build local vendor support for the sale and technical 
> support of such systems.  I know my business would be interested in 
> supporting Southern Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Iowa area. 
> http://www.1-cs.com.  Local support options may be a key in 
> implementation and making end users feel comfortable.  If nothing else 
> knowing support is available could set minds at ease.
>
> I think if Redhat could find solutions to the above problems they could 
> dominate one to one computing and the terminal services market in both 
> Education and Business.  I am not sure how much of the above is even in 
> the realm of RedHat's scope but if nothing else they may be able to be a 
> good facilitator.
>
> And you thought your message was long :-)
> Jim Kronebusch

Heh.  :)

Thanks for the feedback, Jim.  I appreciate it.

--g

-- 
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"