This week's FESCo Meeting Summary
Toshio Kuratomi
toshio at tiki-lounge.com
Thu Jul 6 23:40:45 UTC 2006
2006 July, 06 FESCo Meeting
===========================
Note: This is the first meeting of the new FESCo. The new membership is
listed on the wiki:
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee
Meeting Summaries are posted on the wiki at:
http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meetings
Attending from FESCo
--------------------
* c4chris
* scop
* abadger1999
* jeremy
* dgilmore
* rdieter
* jwb
* tibbs
* warren
* thl (late)
Summary
-------
* FESCo organization
- thl was nominated and accepted as the chair until FC7. Then someone
else
will need to take over.
- It was decided to start a "Vice President" position to run meetings
when
the chair cannot make the meetings. Discussion of nominees will
take
place on the FESCo list.
- Scribe position to summarize the meetings. abadger1999 will do it
for
now. Possibly rotate.
- Meeting time will stay 17:00 UTC for now, 18:00 UTC during the
winter.
* FESCo list. jeremy is taking care of subscriptions so the new FESCo
receives
mail there. FESCo members, be sure to send a message to jeremy with
the
email address to subscribe to the list.
* Ctrl+C problem. (cvs-commits-mails can be prevented by hitting CTRL
+C)
- Sopwith put in a potential fix.
- Little testing has been done. Hans (bug reporter) was emailed to see
if it
is still hackable.
- Warren asked if anyone has tested whether breaking the ssh
connection to
the server at the right time will prevent syncmail from running.
Jeremy
replied that in theory syncmail will still run.
* Encouraging Extras Reviews
- Better guidelines for reviews have been worked on.
- New ideas solicited:
+ possibility of scripting pieces of the review (how does this
differ from
rpmlint?)
+ Creating an alternative to package reviews to getting a package
into
Extras. How do we avoid fire-and-forget packagers with this?
Auto remove orphans?
+ Reviving review days
+ Making reviews more beneficial to the reviewer;
* Publishing stats on number of reviews per person
* Making the requirement to do reviews more prominent
* Encouraging swapping reviews
- A points system to allow reviewers to gain points towards
having
their package reviewed.
+ Requires automated tools for tracking
- tibbs is going to try simply asking the reviewed person to
make a
review in return.
- c4chris will retrieve some stats on how the package review queue has
changed over the course of time.
- Creating a new tracker bug FE-GUIDELINES to block bugs which are
stuck
because guidelines are in flux (as in php extensions are being
worked on
right now)
* Deferred:
- Plan for the next election
- change log format (Was decided on the Packaging list)
- IPv6 proposal: Will be discussed at the next FESCo then bumped to
the
packaging list.
Full Log
--------
::
(10:01:01) scop [n=scop] entered the room.
(10:01:14) ***c4chris__ is around...
(10:02:22) jima: oh, right, fesco meeting. and i'll miss it, doh.
(10:02:31) jima: (and the new fesco breathes a sigh of relief)
(10:02:32) ***abadger1999 is extricating from the packaging meeting
(10:02:39) ***scop ditto
(10:02:41) ***jeremy is around-ish
(10:02:42) c4chris__: well, not sure if there'll be a meeting...
(10:03:04) ***dgilmore is here
(10:03:16) scop: c4chris, ?
(10:03:53) c4chris__: scop, thl won't be around, and wondered
what
would happen...
(10:03:55) abadger1999: scop: thl is going to be late.
(10:03:59) rdieter: ho hum.
(10:04:00) ixs: mhhhm. I should go home.
(10:04:08) ixs: I'm always reading "fiasco meeting"
(10:04:12) jwb: i'm here
(10:04:54) abadger1999: I think we should start by voting thl
extra
responsibilities ;-)
(10:05:03) c4chris__: right :)
(10:05:19) jwb: abadger1999, thl said he wouldn't mind being
chair
still
(10:05:23) scop: wasn't one item of this meeting choosing a new
chair?
(10:05:27) jwb: scop, yes
(10:05:32) dgilmore: yep
(10:05:37) jwb: scop, that is what thl wanted to primarily do today
(10:05:42) c4chris__: any other candidate ?
(10:05:51) jwb has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress
-
New Chair
(10:05:53) dgilmore: is anyone intrested in it?
(10:06:02) jwb: jeremy, you around?
(10:06:07) tibbs: The silence is deafening.
(10:06:08) c4chris__: nope, just got here...
(10:06:23) Seg: Aww I get to miss the possible non meeting. Math
test
today!
(10:06:41) jwb: ok, who's here?
(10:06:50) scop: I think there would be some value in shuffling
people
around, but if there are no other nominees and thl doesn't mind...
(10:07:08) jwb: scop, tibbs, c4chris__, dgilmore, abadger1999,
rdieter
(10:07:09) jeremy: jwb: vaguely
(10:07:14) Seg: Back in about 3 hours. ;P
(10:07:16) tibbs: thl should choose a second for those times he
can't
be here.
(10:07:24) jwb: jeremy, enough to pay attention?
(10:07:27) jwb: warren, you around?
(10:07:32) jeremy: jwb: we'll see :)
(10:07:34) c4chris__: tibbs, good idea
(10:07:58) tibbs: I have tried to run a meeting before and it's
not
terribly difficult; maintaining the schedule is not so easy.
(10:08:00) warren: jwb, nope
(10:08:04) dgilmore: anyone intrested in the backup job?
(10:08:04) ***scop says tibbs do it today until thl arrives
(10:08:20) jeremy: scop: seconded
(10:08:21) ***dgilmore agrees with scop
(10:08:23) tibbs: OK, let me un-run the other meeting.
(10:08:23) warren: jwb, what's up?
(10:08:30) jwb: warren, FESCo meeting
(10:08:50) c4chris__: scop, +1
(10:09:05) jwb: ok, so tibbs is running it today
(10:09:23) jwb: but was there anyone that wanted to nominate
for
Chair?
(10:10:08) jwb: ok, i take that as a no
(10:10:14) rdieter: thl? (:
(10:10:25) jwb: rdieter, he said he would do it again if nobody
else
wanted it
(10:10:25) tibbs: I guess that's a no. Let's put the chair bit
off
until thl is back.
(10:10:29) dgilmore: rdieter: he said he would do it until FC7
(10:10:34) jwb: right
(10:10:52) jwb: tibbs, you want to create a "Vice President"
position?
(10:11:08) jwb: was that the suggestion? or just someone to run
the
meeting in the Chair's absence?
(10:11:09) tibbs: That seems reasonable; thl deserves a day off
every
couple of years or so.
(10:11:24) jwb: ok, i like the VP idea
(10:11:29) rdieter: vp++
(10:11:36) c4chris__: yup
(10:11:43) tibbs: +1
(10:11:48) abadger1999: +1
(10:11:54) jwb: abadger1999, jeremy, warren?
(10:11:58) jwb: oh, sorry abadger1999
(10:12:22) warren: +1
(10:12:23) scop: any VP nominees?
(10:12:33) jwb: yeah, that's the next question
(10:12:43) ***scop nominates abadger1999
(10:12:53) ***dgilmore nominates scop
(10:13:07) dgilmore: abadger1999 would be good also
(10:13:08) ***abadger1999 nominates tibbs
(10:13:27) jwb: i say we discuss the nominees on the fesco list
and
vote next meeting
(10:13:28) jeremy: grr.. network sucking :-/
(10:13:31) abadger1999: Real question, does anyone accept?
(10:13:47) dgilmore: speaking of the fesco list i guess i need
to
subscibe to it
(10:13:48) jeremy: on the subject of fesco list, new members --
send
me a mail with the email address you want subscribed and I'll do that
(10:13:52) tibbs: I have a meeting immediately before this one, so
I'm
probably not the best person.
(10:13:55) jeremy: I didn't want to figure out people's address
that
they wanted :)
(10:14:10) abadger1999: tibbs: scop and I are there as well :-)
(10:14:19) c4chris__: jeremy, k, will do
(10:14:20) abadger1999: I guess that excuses all of us :-)
(10:14:20) tibbs: Crap.
(10:14:26) scop: what about purging old members' subscriptions?
(10:14:35) jeremy: scop: I'll take care of that too
(10:14:41) scop: jeremy, ok
(10:14:46) jeremy: that's easier :)
(10:15:05) jwb has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress
-
VP candidates
(10:15:22) ***jwb notes that tibbs is supposed to be doing this ;)
(10:15:32) tibbs: I have now un-run the other meeting.
(10:15:57) ***abadger1999 notes that jwb is doing a fine job ;-)
(10:16:11) tibbs: Candidates: I agree that we should discuss on
the
list.
(10:16:24) c4chris__: and he didn't give excuses of other
preceeding
meetings...
(10:17:03) tibbs: I have to learn everyone's nicks. Crap.
(10:17:09) scop: list++, next ;)
(10:17:14) jwb: ok, so i'll start a thread on the list
(10:17:24) jwb: once jeremy says everyone is subscribed
(10:17:32) tibbs: Great. Next.
(10:17:42) jwb: tibbs, i put the nicks on
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee
(10:17:50) tibbs: The CTRL-C problem?
(10:18:05) jeremy: tibbs: an attempted fix went in
(10:18:09) dgilmore: warren: any update on ctrl-c
(10:18:10) tibbs has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress
-
CTRL-C problem
(10:18:21) tibbs: jeremy: Has anyone tried to hack it?
(10:18:29) warren: dgilmore, I haven't been able to work on it at
all
while I didn't have sysadmin access during the election.
(10:18:30) tibbs: I recall that Hans could do it at will.
(10:18:45) jeremy: tibbs: dunno
(10:18:53) jeremy: tibbs: it's definitely going ot be _harder_ now
(10:19:01) jwb: can somebody ask Hans to try again?
(10:19:05) warren: dgilmore, and frankly, I cannot prioritize
doing
that myself right now.
(10:19:06) rdieter: what is the "cntl-c" problem exactly?
(10:19:09) dgilmore: should we get hans to try since he brought it up
(10:19:11) jeremy: tibbs: sopwith made it so the script should
ignore
ctrl-c
(10:19:23) tibbs: I don't think he does IRC; I'll shoot him an email.
(10:19:25) ***rdieter remembers now, never mind.
(10:19:27) jwb: rdieter, if you hit CTRL-C at the right time then
you
would cancel the commit email
(10:19:30) dgilmore: rdieter: if you press ctrlc at the right time
in
a cvs commit syncmail doesnt run
(10:19:59) ***tibbs will move on soon
(10:20:04) dgilmore: tibbs: he does sometimes but mostly not
(10:20:06) warren: What if you break the SSH connection at the
right
moment?
(10:20:23) dgilmore: warren: probably the same
(10:20:24) ensc [n=irc-ensc] entered the room.
(10:20:41) ***tibbs will move in in 30
(10:20:54) warren: The script sounds to be ignoring the signal
now,
but will it prevent syncmail from failing if you break the
SSH
connection?
(10:21:16) warren: If stdout is directed there, it might not.
(10:21:31) tibbs has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress
-
Encourage Extras Reviews
(10:21:34) jeremy: warren: it shouldn't afaik
(10:21:52) tibbs: I was doing this, but aside from better
guidelines
I'm all out of ideas.
(10:22:13) jwb: tibbs, would it help if some of the stuff
was
scripted?
(10:22:23) dgilmore: I know i need to do more reviews
(10:22:33) dgilmore: jwb: you would think so
(10:22:42) tibbs: jwb: I'm not sure, honestly.
(10:22:59) jwb: dgilmore, i was looking at it today... there isn't
a
ton that can be scripted but some can
(10:23:08) tibbs: Even when people know it's a requirement
for
sponsorship, they still don't do it.
(10:23:21) scop: huh, scripted reviews?
(10:23:26) warren: tibbs, thus we should drop review requirement?
(10:23:27) jwb: tibbs, i was actually thinking of the reviewers
(10:23:27) dgilmore: I guess there isi not much glory in reviews
(10:23:36) jwb: scop, no not scripted reviews
(10:23:50) scop: :)
(10:23:59) dgilmore: should we start sending emails with stats
on
reviews? like was done a long time ago
(10:23:59) tibbs: warren: I don't think we should drop
the
requirement, no. But it needs to be more prominent.
(10:24:03) ***edhill suggests that, for more reviews, we figure
out
how to clone tibbs
(10:24:08) jwb: scop, just a tool to check for some of the
simple
stuff. like license, spec name vs. %{name}, etc
(10:24:26) tibbs: jwb: Sounds like rpmlint.
(10:24:28) scop: jwb, like rpmlint?
(10:24:39) jwb: scop, yeah does rpmlint do all that already though?
(10:24:45) tibbs: rpmlint is good, and improving it is good, but
it
doesn't get to the root of the problem.
(10:24:49) dgilmore: rpmlint on steroids?
(10:24:57) jwb: yes, rpmlint on steroids
(10:25:15) jwb: tibbs, right it doesn't solve the root of the
problem.
but it helps... maybe
(10:25:16) tibbs: The problem is that people want to maintain
the
packages they're interested in. They don't want to be involved
in
other peoples' packages.
(10:25:41) tibbs: I recall that we used to have review days; did
they
help?
(10:25:52) c4chris__: the trick is to get at least two
people
interested in oen package.
(10:25:55) scop: IMO *that*'s not a problem in a volunteer project
(10:26:00) ***thl on the keyboard now
(10:26:09) scop: volunteers do what they are interested in
(10:26:25) tibbs: scop: True. You can't really change that.
(10:26:45) stickster left the room (quit: "Ack! Thppptt...").
(10:26:47) scop: reviewing for the sake of reviewing doesn't make
much
sense
(10:27:08) rdieter: imo, if no one is interested enough in pkg x
to
review it, then it shouldn't be in extras.
(10:27:17) warren: Maybe we should work on some *other* way of
getting
a package in that nobody else is interested in?
(10:27:26) tibbs: rdieter: You're probably right.
(10:27:43) tibbs: But I pick up packages that I'm not interested
in.
Lots of them.
(10:27:56) c4chris__: rdieter, I feel the same
(10:28:02) cweyl [n=cweyl] entered the room.
(10:28:08) dgilmore: tibbs: you have super powers though
(10:28:37) rdieter: but warren has a point, if pkg x *were* in
extras,
maybe more people would get interested and use it.
(10:28:38) cweyl: that he does, especially when it comes to
perl
packages :)
(10:28:38) tibbs: dgilmore: Honestly I don't think so. It
doesn't
really even take all that much time.
(10:29:01) warren: The question is how to define this
(10:29:02) abadger1999: warren: Do we keep enough stats to
correlate
fire-and-forget packagers with # of reviews?
(10:29:11) c4chris__: encourage more swapping reviews ?
(10:29:19) warren: And yes, fire-and-forget packagers is a HUGE
risk
here.
(10:29:44) ChitleshGoorah left the room (quit:
"Konversation
terminated!").
(10:29:47) Sopwith: What is the risk?
(10:29:50) dgilmore: c4chris__: i think that can help. I know that
i
dont review alot but the ones i do i hope they will return the favour
(10:30:10) warren: We don't want to encourage people to dump
packages
into Extras and they don't maintain them.
(10:30:19) c4chris__: Sopwith, orphans ?
(10:30:37) Sopwith: Maybe we auto-remove orphaned packages?
(10:31:00) dgilmore: Sopwith: we did that just before FC5 was
released
(10:31:06) cweyl: Sopwith: a package may be orphaned but very much
in
use. maybe just from devel?
(10:31:25) c4chris__: cweyl, yes, for devel
(10:31:27) ***thl likey to add a note to the CTRL-C
conversation:
Sopwith changed something and it should be harder to trigger now;
but
no one tried yet if it's really better now
(10:31:31) scop: definitely only from devel if there are no
security
issues or compleat borkage
(10:31:40) tibbs: I think we're back to where we started: I have
no
ideas for encouraging reviews.
(10:31:53) jwb: thl, i think tibbs is going to as Hans to try
again
with the ctrl-c thing
(10:32:06) thl: jwb, I asked Hans already
(10:32:08) abadger1999: dgilmore, c4chris: Contribute to a review
and
receive a point. Guide a review start to finish and receive
five?
Redeem points with a set of package reviewers that will review
your
package for five points?
(10:32:33) dgilmore: abadger1999: that could be incentive
(10:32:36) thl: he said "I only triggered it once and don't know
how
to trigger it again"
(10:32:43) jwb: thl, ok
(10:32:46) tibbs: abadger1999: I guess it's worth a try.
(10:33:01) tibbs: thl: I thought he said it was easy to do? A
tempest
in a teapot, perhaps?
(10:33:03) c4chris__: abadger1999, why not.
(10:33:04) jwb: abadger1999, how to track that?
(10:33:33) c4chris__: jwb, yes, that's the next question...
(10:33:34) abadger1999: jwb: I don't think we can automate it yet :-(
(10:33:54) jwb: abadger1999, then you're not much better off
than
doing swap reviews...
(10:34:21) c4chris__: abadger1999, cough package database cough
(10:34:25) abadger1999: Yes. Except that you don't have to
swap
directly reviewer to reviewee.
(10:34:47) jwb: abadger1999, right. but someone has to 'assign'
points
until it's automated
(10:35:27) scop: anyone have stats about how the length of the
pending
review queue has developed eg. this year?
(10:35:40) c4chris__: jwb, could be the duty of the packager once
his
package is approved
(10:35:56) tibbs: scop: You should be able to look over
c4chris's
reports.
(10:36:14) c4chris__: scop, I can dig some stuff up, but not for
a
whoel year yet
(10:36:22) abadger1999: c4chris__: If the package db tracked
who
reviewed a package then we'd be able to pull that. But
tracking
contributors might be harder.
(10:36:24) scop: cool
(10:36:30) tibbs: I've been following it pretty closely but I
don't
have any hard figures. It's definitely gone up recently; we're
blocked
on a whole pile of PHP stuff.
(10:36:36) jwb: abadger1999, want to draft up a strawman for
the
points system and send it out?
(10:37:06) dgilmore: tibbs: wasnt there a huge perl influx the
last
couple of weeks?
(10:37:09) jwb: tibbs, isn't the PHP stuff waiting on
guideline
changes?
(10:37:19) tibbs: I think I'm going to try something simple. When
I
approve a package, I'll ask the submitter to do a package
review.
We'll see if it makes any difference at all.
(10:37:20) warren: a points system wont work at all unless it
is
automated as part of bugzilla and the account system
(10:37:21) dgilmore: jwb: yeah it is
(10:37:34) tibbs: dgilmore: I have finished off most of the
Perl
stuff.
(10:37:37) jwb: warren, that's my thinking too
(10:37:53) warren: Note that GNOME Bugzilla has an excellent
example
of a points system that modifies contributor behavior to do
productive
things.
(10:38:02) jwb: warren, but a strawman for how it would work
can't
hurt
(10:38:05) abadger1999: jwb: I could. I'd like to figure out a
little
more about tracking first. If we know it's possible after we
implement
some tools that's doable, if we don't know how to automate at
all
that's quite another.
(10:38:25) warren: Points scale by a logarithm instead of just
linear.
(10:38:26) ***dgilmore brb
(10:38:37) warren: abadger1999, ++
(10:38:50) warren: I think tracking the metrics of the review queue
is
a good first start.
(10:39:17) jwb: k, who's going to do that? c4chris__ ?
(10:39:45) c4chris__: jwb, k, I'll dig some figures and post them.
(10:39:52) jwb: cool
(10:39:54) tibbs: Perhaps we need to indicate that some tickets
are
blocked waiting for guidelines. That would give is a clearer
picture
of what's really sitting around.
(10:40:05) jwb: tibbs, +1
(10:40:24) thl: FE-BLOCKEDGUIDELINES ?
(10:40:31) c4chris__: tibbs, I guess they have php in the summary?
(10:40:34) thl: or any other blocker bug?
(10:40:40) jwb: thl, yes that would work
(10:40:41) tibbs: Or one for each guideline? PHP, mono.
(10:40:52) cweyl: tibbs: on a related note, a "review/don't
review"
table at the top of ReviewGuidelines would be a nice clue
for
reviewers, too
(10:40:53) tibbs: Mono stuff doesn't have mono in the summary.
(10:40:55) thl: tibbs, no, one geneeral blocker bug should be enough
(10:41:09) thl: tibbs, those things hopefully should not happen
that
often
(10:41:10) jwb: cweyl, huh?
(10:41:13) thl: (in the longer term)
(10:41:44) thl: Tracking Bug for PHP, Perl, Python, ... stuff
in
general were discussed once
(10:41:45) cweyl: jwb: e.g "don't review php packages ; do review
perl
; don't review..." etc
(10:41:59) thl: but only a few persons liked that idea then
(10:42:21) tibbs: My bugzilla-fu is poor; anyone want to set up
that
tracking bug and start blocking things?
(10:42:37) thl: I can set up that bug and use my bugzilla-sink
account
for it
(10:42:41) jwb: cweyl, oh. that would be a short lived table. i
think
a blocking bug for things waiting on guidelines and statement
about
"if the bug is blocking FE-BLOCKEDGUIDELINES don't review" should
be
ok
(10:42:50) warren: cweyl, "don't review php packages"?
(10:43:03) warren: cweyl, you're going to make bress cry. =)
(10:43:11) cweyl: jwb: gotcha. either or, just so long as there's
a
clue to be had :)
(10:43:12) jwb: warren, because of being blocked on guidelines
for
now. not for forever
(10:43:24) jwb: warren, in other words "don't waste time on this ATM"
(10:43:28) warren: oh
(10:43:29) thl: btw, has anybody a better name for that tracking
bug
-- FE-BLOCKEDGUIDELINES has a lot of chars ;-)
(10:43:31) cweyl: warren: for now! I've been wanting phpMyAdmin
in
there forever ;)
(10:43:40) jwb: thl, FE-GUIDELINES ?
(10:43:44) thl: jwb, +1
(10:43:45) kanarip left the room (quit: Read error: 104
(Connection
reset by peer)).
(10:43:52) warren: heh... in the past years I've untarred
phpmyadmin
every time I wanted to use it.
(10:44:00) tibbs: bress should help us out with guidelines if he
wants
it done quickly.
(10:44:02) warren: jwb, +1
(10:44:11) cweyl: warren: yah... same here. it gets old quickly :)
(10:44:12) tibbs: BTW, phpmyadmin should be reviewable now.
(10:44:16) jwb: btw, does this apply to Core as well?
(10:44:16) abadger1999: jwb: +1
(10:44:18) rdieter: jwb, +1
(10:44:19) c4chris__: jwb, +1
(10:44:36) ***scop needs to go in 5 minutes
(10:44:39) thl: okay, I'll create FE-GUIDELINES and post about it
to
the list
(10:44:43) tibbs: phpmyadmin is not a php extension package.
(10:44:50) ***c4chris__ needs to run soon too
(10:44:53) tibbs: scop: anything you wanted to cover before you
leave?
(10:45:02) tibbs: c4chris as well.
(10:45:18) scop: resolution on chair, perhaps quickie
on
co-maintainership
(10:45:24) c4chris__: I guess we'll do the AWOL next time?
(10:45:28) cweyl: tibbs: and that's exactly why we/I need this clue,
I
had it stuck in my head "no php at all right now"
(10:45:34) thl: AWOL next time IMHO
(10:45:40) jwb: AWOL next time
(10:45:58) jwb: thl, nobody stepped forward for the Chair. still
ok
with doing it until FC7?
(10:46:07) thl: yeah
(10:46:08) scop: re php, note that phpmyadmin may depend on some
other
php stuff which is subject to guideline changes
(10:46:13) jwb: +1 for thl as Chair
(10:46:20) tibbs: +1 thl
(10:46:22) abadger1999: +1 thl
(10:46:26) c4chris__: +1 for thl
(10:46:26) dgilmore: `+1 for thl
(10:46:36) thl: btw, I wanted to bring in a "Vice President", too
(10:46:36) cweyl: +1 (rabble, tho ;))
(10:46:52) jwb: thl, cool. i'm starting a thread on fesco list
for
that with nominees
(10:46:52) thl has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress
--
FESCo self organisation
(10:46:54) scop: +1 thl, and we agreed to discuss VP on list
(10:46:59) dgilmore: jwb as VP
(10:47:03) rdieter: +1 thl
(10:47:11) tibbs: That's 7.
(10:47:12) thl: scop, k
(10:47:33) thl: thx guys
(10:47:45) thl: well, there is one other thing I#d like to change
(10:47:53) thl: I'm getting tired of writing the summaries
(10:48:04) thl: I would prefer if that job rotates
(10:48:16) warren: Or we could have a FESCO scribe
(10:48:21) warren: doesn't necessarily need to be in FESCO
(10:48:26) jwb: i like the idea of a scribe
(10:48:35) scop: ditto
(10:49:03) abadger1999: I can do meeting summaries.
(10:49:10) warren: The scribe should *usually* attend meetings,
but
could actually do it from logs afterward.
(10:49:21) ***c4chris__ too, but I'm not sure I like scribing much...
(10:49:45) c4chris__: abadger1999, thx
(10:49:49) thl: we don't have to find a proper solution now
(10:49:53) jwb: sure
(10:50:05) jwb: abadger1999, want to take this meeting for now
then
until we finalize?
(10:50:06) thl: but doing it every time is frustrating
(10:50:24) abadger1999: jwb: Sounds good to me.
(10:50:25) thl: abadger1999, I can post the log to the wiki if
you
don#t have one
(10:50:35) c4chris__: thl, yup. Rotation is good.
(10:50:50) scop: I need to run now, see ya
(10:50:53) thl: scop, bye
(10:51:08) scop left the room ("Leaving").
(10:51:13) thl: one other thing
(10:51:20) abadger1999: I have a log. We might want to make sure
the
chair always keeps one, though, just in case the scribe isn't
present.
(10:51:33) thl: I'd like to make plans for the next election soon
(10:51:53) thl: that might be the best now that the memorie of
the
recent election is still fresh
(10:52:05) c4chris__: thl, k. Put it on the agenda?
(10:52:14) thl: yes, that's my plan
(10:52:30) thl: but abadger1999, you seem to have the best
knowledge
of the voting systems in general
(10:52:51) thl: abadger1999, can you put togehter a rough plan how
the
next election should be done?
(10:52:55) c4chris__: gotta run now (sorry)
(10:53:04) abadger1999: thl: Just what we've implemented thus far.
(10:53:05) c4chris__: see you all later
(10:53:20) thl: thl, I didn#t mean the voting app
(10:53:23) thl: more the scheme
(10:53:36) thl: Let's discuss this afterwards
(10:53:37) nim-nim [n=nim-nim] entered the
room.
(10:53:41) thl: I'll mail to the list
(10:53:44) abadger1999: thl: Sounds good.
(10:54:01) lmacken: are multiple *Requires packages separated
by
spaces or commas ?
(10:54:10) jwb has changed the topic to: FESCo meeting in progress
--
Free Discussion
(10:54:21) jwb: i have 2 items i'd like to get on the agenda
(10:54:27) jwb: 1) change log format
(10:54:33) jwb: 2) IPv6 proposal
(10:54:49) ***thl likes to note: all FESCo members can put things
on
the agenda
(10:55:11) tibbs: jwb: changelog format has been voted on by
the
packaging committee and should be written up soon.
(10:55:14) thl: please just give enough infomrations so other know
the
most important backgrounds
(10:55:26) thl: and maybe announce the addition on a mailinglist
(10:55:28) rdieter: jwb: changelog format was discussed already in
the
Packaging comittee.
(10:55:40) jwb: tibbs, rdieter, even better then
(10:56:07) thl: jwb, just out of interest: what did you meant
with
"IPv6 proposal"
(10:56:53) dgilmore: lmacken: both work
(10:57:02) jwb: thl, dwmw2 made a proposal on fedora-maintainers
that
all Extras packages should support IPv6 if they support IPv4. if
they
don't, it's a MUST to add it to a blocker bug (similar
to
ExcludeArch), and explain why
(10:57:20) jwb: thl, he wants that added to the guidelines
(10:57:30) tibbs: I like the idea of encouraging IPV6-ness
and
certainly making sure it's enabled if a package supports, but I
don't
think lack of it should be a blocker.
(10:57:43) jwb: tibbs, rdieter: what's the relationship between
the
packaging committee and FESCo?
(10:57:55) warren: lord and serf
(10:57:59) _wart_: jwb: does the proposal include instructions on
how
to test for ipv6 support?
(10:58:02) tibbs: jwb: Packaging committee decides on
packaging
guidelines for both core and extras.
(10:58:04) thl: jwb, well, add it to the schedule then
(10:58:14) jwb: _wart_, his example does not
(10:58:16) jwb: thl, will do
(10:58:33) thl: jwb, but my opinion is "we do packaging guidelines
and
that's often not packaging"
(10:58:33) jwb: tibbs, yes but shouldn't FESCo agree to them
before
they become set in stone?
(10:58:35) dgilmore: tibbs: I think that if ipv6 support its
there
then it should be turned on
(10:58:47) jwb: thl, my opinion as well
(10:58:53) thl: and the packaging guidelines are done by the
Packaging
Commitee
(10:58:56) thl: nevertheless
(10:59:02) thl: let's talk about that once
(10:59:14) thl: but not today
(10:59:19) jwb: right
(10:59:40) thl: btw, does anyone know if all new FESCo member are
in
the US or Europe?
(10:59:58) thl: does Thursday, 17:00 UTC fit everybody well?
(11:00:05) dgilmore: thl: im in the US
(11:00:08) jwb: .us
(11:00:18) jwb: i think most are from .us
(11:00:19) abadger1999: Works well for me (.us)
(11:00:25) thl: or do we need to rotate two or three different
times
to make sure everyone can attent?
(11:00:38) ***thl would prefer one fixed time
(11:00:46) jwb: i prefer a fixed time as well
(11:00:49) ***warren prefers one fixed time that works for both US
and
EU.
(11:01:46) thl: okay, then we stick to 17:00 UTC
(11:01:52) jima: holy crap, it's still going!
(11:01:54) thl: (and 18:00 UTC during winters)
(11:02:05) thl: anything else we should discuss today?
(11:02:15) thl: any sponsor nominations?
(11:02:45) jwb: it's late. i say we save those for next week
(11:03:04) thl: yeah, let's close the meeting for today then
(11:03:09) ***thl will close in 30
(11:03:28) ***thl will close in 10
(11:03:40) thl: -- MARK -- Meeting end
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-extras-list/attachments/20060706/2648f2ab/attachment.sig>
More information about the fedora-extras-list
mailing list