From panemade at gmail.com Wed Aug 6 07:33:19 2008 From: panemade at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Parag_N(=E0=A4=AA=E0=A4=B0=E0=A4=BE=E0=A5=9A)?=) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:03:19 +0530 Subject: Maithili language support gdm problem in Fedora Message-ID: Hi, We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in bugzilla against fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it instantly and made it upstream[2]. I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm. Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I can see ACLs are open on fontconfig. Regards, Parag. [1] *Bug 441995* - [mai_IN] fc-list does not show Maithili language name [2] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15821 From b.rahul.pm at gmail.com Wed Aug 6 10:14:02 2008 From: b.rahul.pm at gmail.com (Rahul Bhalerao) Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:44:02 +0530 Subject: Fwd: Maithili language support gdm problem in Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: forwarding on fedora-i18n-list as well. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Rahul Bhalerao Date: Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 3:42 PM Subject: Re: Maithili language support gdm problem in Fedora To: "Parag N(????)" On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Parag N(????) wrote: > Hi, > We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling > to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see > is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili > language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in bugzilla against > fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it > instantly and made it upstream[2]. > I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response > from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level > changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili > language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm. > Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead > and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I > can see ACLs are open on fontconfig. > How much important is it to have an entry for the language in the file fcfreetype.c of fontconfig and related entry in the header file ttnameid.h of freetype2? I observed that to have the language listed in gdm selection list, both of these entries are necessary. But that raises one more question that is, for languages that do not have MS or MAC codes, what has to be done as all the language and their codes listed in these files are defined according to the MS and MAC codes? There are many languages including Maithili, in iso639-2 that do not have such codes. _ Rahul. -- Rahul. http://b.rahul.pm.googlepages.com/home - http://rahulpmb.blogspot.com - http://samadiyami.blogspot.com - http://mazikavita.blogspot.com From besfahbo at redhat.com Wed Aug 6 16:43:01 2008 From: besfahbo at redhat.com (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:43:01 -0400 Subject: Maithili language support gdm problem in Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1218040981.1014.14.camel@behdad.behdad.org> On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(????) wrote: > Hi, > We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling > to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see > is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili > language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in bugzilla against > fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it > instantly and made it upstream[2]. > I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response > from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level > changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili > language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm. There is a misconception that bugs should be fixed as soon as they are submitted. That's simply not how it is. You submitted the Fedora bug in April, without attaching any patch or anything. I upstreamed it early May, the upstream maintainer asked for a patch on May 24, and released fontconfig 2.6 at the end of May. If you have submitted the patch in time, it would have been in latest fontconfig release and hence in rawhide, but you didn't submit a patch until July, and now expect it to suddenly appear in rawhide. That's not how I typically work, because Fedora is not Ubuntu. I've talked to fontconfig maintainer to try to get a new version out in August. *That*'s how it should work. > Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead > and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I > can see ACLs are open on fontconfig. I wouldn't particularly like that. Just because it's open doesn't mean... > Regards, > Parag. > > [1] *Bug 441995* - > [mai_IN] fc-list does not show Maithili language name > [2] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15821 > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-fonts-list mailing list > Fedora-fonts-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list -- behdad http://behdad.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From besfahbo at redhat.com Wed Aug 6 16:46:16 2008 From: besfahbo at redhat.com (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:46:16 -0400 Subject: Maithili language support gdm problem in Fedora In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1218041176.1014.16.camel@behdad.behdad.org> On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(????) wrote: > So even if we will get translations and all > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm. Also note that this is not accurate. If DejaVu Sans has Maithili support, things should still work. Also, even if you patch rawhide to add orth file to fontconfig, not everything works. Pango for example needs to regenerate its language tables against the new fontconfig language database and that does *not* happen with a rebuild of Pango. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From panemade at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 02:32:35 2008 From: panemade at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Parag_N(=E0=A4=AA=E0=A4=B0=E0=A4=BE=E0=A5=9A)?=) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 08:02:35 +0530 Subject: Maithili language support gdm problem in Fedora In-Reply-To: <1218040981.1014.14.camel@behdad.behdad.org> References: <1218040981.1014.14.camel@behdad.behdad.org> Message-ID: Hi, On 8/6/08, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(????) wrote: > > Hi, > > We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling > > to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see > > is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili > > language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in bugzilla against > > fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it > > instantly and made it upstream[2]. > > I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response > > from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level > > changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili > > language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all > > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users > > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm. > > > There is a misconception that bugs should be fixed as soon as they are > submitted. That's simply not how it is. I don't see this is misconception. I have seen and still working on bugs that have been reported years ago. I have never said that bugs should be fixed soon. > > You submitted the Fedora bug in April, without attaching any patch or > anything. I am not fontconfig maintainer/developer so how am I supposed to know that what things need to fix bugs. Its responsibility of bug person to whom bug got assigned to ask reporter for patch. > I upstreamed it early May, the upstream maintainer asked for > a patch on May 24, and released fontconfig 2.6 at the end of May. If > you have submitted the patch in time, it would have been in latest > fontconfig release and hence in rawhide, but you didn't submit a patch > until July, and now expect it to suddenly appear in rawhide. And then why you not CC'ed me to upstream bug. Does that look good to you? When I tried to search whats current status in upstream then only I realized that upstream is waiting for me. You should have asked me on IRC/mail to submit patch there. The only thing What I really don't like about you is that you never replied back to me that you are in need of input. I never said I am owner for all issues(say fontconfig) > That's not > how I typically work, because Fedora is not Ubuntu. I have never compared with Ubuntu and even don't know whats happening there. I don't see thats my key responsibility. > I've talked to fontconfig maintainer to try to get a new version out in > August. *That*'s how it should work. So then where am I comes in picture?. You and upstream is the only responsible to decide on issues then I should have not been asked to submit patch. > > > > Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead > > and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I > > can see ACLs are open on fontconfig. > > > I wouldn't particularly like that. Just because it's open doesn't > mean... It should mean anyone can fix issue. If not then make it CLOSED why ACLs are open to everyone? Thats is reason I mail first before modifying CVS. > > > > > Regards, > > Parag. > > > > [1] *Bug 441995* - > > [mai_IN] fc-list does not show Maithili language name > > [2] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15821 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Fedora-fonts-list mailing list > > Fedora-fonts-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list > > -- > behdad > http://behdad.org/ > > Regards, Parag. From panemade at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 02:38:50 2008 From: panemade at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Parag_N(=E0=A4=AA=E0=A4=B0=E0=A4=BE=E0=A5=9A)?=) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 08:08:50 +0530 Subject: Maithili language support gdm problem in Fedora In-Reply-To: <1218041176.1014.16.camel@behdad.behdad.org> References: <1218041176.1014.16.camel@behdad.behdad.org> Message-ID: Hi, On 8/6/08, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(????) wrote: > > > So even if we will get translations and all > > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users > > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm. > > > Also note that this is not accurate. If DejaVu Sans has Maithili > support, things should still work. Also, even if you patch rawhide to > add orth file to fontconfig, not everything works. Pango for example > needs to regenerate its language tables against the new fontconfig > language database and that does *not* happen with a rebuild of Pango. I think I asked only about gdm language selection issue. If other things will not get fixed in time then we will miss support for Maithili language. My only question was that why no update is given on downstream or upstream bug? I should have wait if any update is given on fontconfig bug before asking on this issue on mailing list. Regards, Parag. From vgaburici at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 02:44:37 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 05:44:37 +0300 Subject: TeXLive 2008 in F10? Message-ID: Are there any plans to include TeXLive 2008 in F10? Currently a preview is available, which is essentially a release candidate. I works fine for me on F9, but I have not packaged it. I understand that the new TeXLive 2008 installer and packaging system is a lot of work to deal with, but TeXLive includes LuaTeX, which is the designated successor to pdfTeX, being developed by the same people that maintain pdfTeX, which won't get any signifiicant new features. So, for all practical purposes LuaTeX is the "new TeX". LuaTeX can already use OpenType fonts (towards which Fedora is moving), although not for math for which there are no usable *free* Unicode fonts available right now (the only usable one being Cambria Math from MS). There is no OpenType support planned for pdfTeX, so it's important to get users exposed to LuaTeX as early as possible, and Fedora is a good way of doing this :) The entire TeXLive 2008 system uses a new kpathsea replacement written in Lua, which is *many* times faster the original. This results in major speed improvements for all TeX programs. The "packetization" of TeXLive, plus the support in LuaTeX for OpenType fonts should make the TeX fonts mess (bug 456580) a more tractable problem, even though it won't solve it right away. Also, TeXLive 2008 includes lcdf-typetools, which I was planning to package separately - the package has been orphaned around FC6 or so. The main issue that I see is how to deal with 1Gb+ of TeXLive 2008 packages (over 1000). Perhaps something similar to cpan2rpm is in order? From panemade at gmail.com Thu Aug 7 02:53:39 2008 From: panemade at gmail.com (=?UTF-8?Q?Parag_N(=E0=A4=AA=E0=A4=B0=E0=A4=BE=E0=A5=9A)?=) Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 08:23:39 +0530 Subject: Maithili language support gdm problem in Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <1218040981.1014.14.camel@behdad.behdad.org> Message-ID: Hi, On 8/7/08, Parag N(????) wrote: > Hi, > > > On 8/6/08, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(????) wrote: > > > Hi, > > > We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling > > > to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see > > > is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili > > > language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in bugzilla against > > > fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it > > > instantly and made it upstream[2]. > > > I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response > > > from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level > > > changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili > > > language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all > > > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users > > > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm. > > > > > > There is a misconception that bugs should be fixed as soon as they are > > submitted. That's simply not how it is. > > I don't see this is misconception. I have seen and still working on > bugs that have been reported years ago. I have never said that bugs > should be fixed soon. > > > > > > You submitted the Fedora bug in April, without attaching any patch or > > anything. > > I am not fontconfig maintainer/developer so how am I supposed to > know that what things need to fix bugs. Its responsibility of bug > person to whom bug got assigned to ask reporter for patch. > > > > I upstreamed it early May, the upstream maintainer asked for > > a patch on May 24, and released fontconfig 2.6 at the end of May. If > > you have submitted the patch in time, it would have been in latest > > fontconfig release and hence in rawhide, but you didn't submit a patch > > until July, and now expect it to suddenly appear in rawhide. Bug activity on upstream bug showed me Who When What Removed Added panemade at gmail.com 2008-07-08 23:52:32 PST CC panemade at gmail.com So till this date I was not informed that new release is coming and whether I need to provide any input on this? > > And then why you not CC'ed me to upstream bug. Does that look good > to you? When I tried to search whats current status in upstream then > only I realized that upstream is waiting for me. You should have asked > me on IRC/mail to submit patch there. > The only thing What I really don't like about you is that you never > replied back to me that you are in need of input. I never said I am > owner for all issues(say fontconfig) > > > > That's not > > how I typically work, because Fedora is not Ubuntu. > > I have never compared with Ubuntu and even don't know whats > happening there. I don't see thats my key responsibility. > > > > I've talked to fontconfig maintainer to try to get a new version out in > > August. *That*'s how it should work. > > So then where am I comes in picture?. You and upstream is the only > responsible to decide on issues then I should have not been asked to > submit patch. > > > > > > > > Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead > > > and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I > > > can see ACLs are open on fontconfig. > > > > > > I wouldn't particularly like that. Just because it's open doesn't > > mean... > > It should mean anyone can fix issue. If not then make it CLOSED why > ACLs are open to everyone? Thats is reason I mail first before > modifying CVS. > > > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Parag. > > > > > > [1] *Bug 441995* - > > > [mai_IN] fc-list does not show Maithili language name > > > [2] https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=15821 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Fedora-fonts-list mailing list > > > Fedora-fonts-list at redhat.com > > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list > > > > -- > > behdad > > http://behdad.org/ > > > > > > Regards, > > Parag. > From besfahbo at redhat.com Thu Aug 7 18:38:11 2008 From: besfahbo at redhat.com (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 14:38:11 -0400 Subject: Maithili language support gdm problem in Fedora In-Reply-To: References: <1218040981.1014.14.camel@behdad.behdad.org> Message-ID: <1218134291.6383.11.camel@behdad.behdad.org> On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 08:02 +0530, Parag N(????) wrote: > Hi, > > On 8/6/08, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(????) wrote: > > > Hi, > > > We have already missed F10 Alpha release and I am still struggling > > > to get Maithili language support included in rawhide. The problem I see > > > is that we need to modify fontconfig package to include Maithili > > > language. I submitted bug[1] to add Maithili in bugzilla against > > > fontconfig 3 months back. But package maintainer of fontconfig closed it > > > instantly and made it upstream[2]. > > > I submitted required input in upstream bug. But, still no response > > > from upstream. If package maintainer is not willing to do code level > > > changes and also upstream then I will see no progress to add Maithili > > > language support in Fedora. So even if we will get translations and all > > > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users > > > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm. > > > > > > There is a misconception that bugs should be fixed as soon as they are > > submitted. That's simply not how it is. > I don't see this is misconception. I have seen and still working on > bugs that have been reported years ago. I have never said that bugs > should be fixed soon. Then I don't understand how relevant it is that you submitted the patch last month. > > You submitted the Fedora bug in April, without attaching any patch or > > anything. > I am not fontconfig maintainer/developer so how am I supposed to > know that what things need to fix bugs. Its responsibility of bug > person to whom bug got assigned to ask reporter for patch. Sure, and the maintainers/developers fix it whenever they have time to. > > I upstreamed it early May, the upstream maintainer asked for > > a patch on May 24, and released fontconfig 2.6 at the end of May. If > > you have submitted the patch in time, it would have been in latest > > fontconfig release and hence in rawhide, but you didn't submit a patch > > until July, and now expect it to suddenly appear in rawhide. > And then why you not CC'ed me to upstream bug. Does that look good > to you? When I tried to search whats current status in upstream then > only I realized that upstream is waiting for me. You should have asked > me on IRC/mail to submit patch there. > The only thing What I really don't like about you is that you never > replied back to me that you are in need of input. I never said I am > owner for all issues(say fontconfig) It's not my job to CC you. I upstreamed the bug and posted the upstream link on the Fedora bug. You were notified of that. It's your job to jump on the upstream bug if you care. > > I've talked to fontconfig maintainer to try to get a new version out in > > August. *That*'s how it should work. > So then where am I comes in picture?. You and upstream is the only > responsible to decide on issues then I should have not been asked to > submit patch. You submitted a patch. Thanks for that. > > > Can anyone provide inputs on this issue? Otherwise I will move ahead > > > and will commit required changes in rawhide and build new package as I > > > can see ACLs are open on fontconfig. > > > > I wouldn't particularly like that. Just because it's open doesn't > > mean... > It should mean anyone can fix issue. If not then make it CLOSED why > ACLs are open to everyone? Thats is reason I mail first before > modifying CVS. My apartment's door is open most of the time too. It's not because everyone can come in. On Thu, 2008-08-07 at 08:08 +0530, Parag N(????) wrote: > Hi, > > On 8/6/08, Behdad Esfahbod wrote: > > On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 13:03 +0530, Parag N(????) wrote: > > > > > So even if we will get translations and all > > > other changes done in Fedora by F10 release to support Maithili, users > > > will not able to see Maithili language selection in gdm. > > > > > > Also note that this is not accurate. If DejaVu Sans has Maithili > > support, things should still work. Also, even if you patch rawhide to > > add orth file to fontconfig, not everything works. Pango for example > > needs to regenerate its language tables against the new fontconfig > > language database and that does *not* happen with a rebuild of Pango. > > I think I asked only about gdm language selection issue. If other > things will not get fixed in time then we will miss support for > Maithili language. gdm uses Pango too. > My only question was that why no update is given > on downstream or upstream bug? I should have wait if any update is > given on fontconfig bug before asking on this issue on mailing list. In general what I'm trying to say is that, we have time based releases for a reason. If a bugfix/feature/etc doesn't make it for F10, no big deal, there's always F10+1. It's a bit hard to understand at first, but you will appreciate it after a couple of times seeing what disasters rushing things can get you into. Anyway, back to work. -- behdad http://behdad.org/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Aug 8 07:22:59 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:22:59 +0200 Subject: TeXGyre fonts licensing concern In-Reply-To: <488D906F.5010002@wxs.nl> References: <645d17210807241621r1b7593cdqa186c3c1da8487ff@mail.gmail.com> <488B00FD.3030100@wxs.nl> <1217071502.13473.16.camel@rousalka.okg> <488D906F.5010002@wxs.nl> Message-ID: <1218180179.21364.1.camel@rousalka.okg> On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 11:25 +0200, Hans Hagen wrote: > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > I'm afraid these answers are utterly unconvincing. I've just checked > > Debian made the very same analysis as us, and you're on your way to get > > yourself blacklisted in all major Linux distributions. > > hm, you == tex-community or gust-foundry or ? Just TEX-Gyre so far but it does raise questions about all the entities that redistributed this work. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri Aug 8 07:29:27 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 08 Aug 2008 09:29:27 +0200 Subject: TeXGyre fonts licensing concern In-Reply-To: References: <645d17210807241621r1b7593cdqa186c3c1da8487ff@mail.gmail.com> <488B00FD.3030100@wxs.nl> <1217071502.13473.16.camel@rousalka.okg> Message-ID: <1218180567.21364.7.camel@rousalka.okg> On Wed, 2008-07-30 at 12:59 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote: > It looks to me like the GUST fokes did their best, but they're not a > big company, so they ignored some legal aspects. Rather than telling > them they're about to get blacklisted, perhaps a more constructive > approach is in order. When in doubt, ask questions first and relicense later. The correct solution always was just to keep the original license and only change it if every entity that contributed to the work approved. So what if the GUST people do not like the original licence ? many fonts have a sucky license (Bistream Vera, Liberation?), and people still abide with the original licensing. (And for the record, I doubt anyone but the GUST people find their license pretty. Legalese referensing other legalese, come on, it's not a perl obfuscation contest) Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From vgaburici at gmail.com Fri Aug 8 19:38:18 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 22:38:18 +0300 Subject: [Fedora-packaging] Are there *any* guidelines for what "Group:" an application should go in? In-Reply-To: <489C91BF.5010505@gmail.com> References: <489C91BF.5010505@gmail.com> Message-ID: Thanks for the info. I see it is possible to add a package to multiple comps.xml groups, which is more flexible that what "Group:" can express. Still, it would be nice if anaconda had a search box like PackageKit... On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 9:34 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote: > Vasile Gaburici wrote: >> >> Furthermore, are there any guidelines for the creation of new groups? >> > Pretty much no. We've settled on using comps for grouping of packages > rather than the Group: tag. That said, it's probably best to use one of the > existing groups (listed in /usr/share/doc/rpm-%{version}/GROUPS > > -Toshio > > From vgaburici at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 12:31:53 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:31:53 +0300 Subject: STIX license issues? Message-ID: I recall watching a Barbara Beeton's TUG talk recording that some people didn't like the STIX font license, and were waiting for the GUST Math font. Does anyone know what exactly the problems are? I see (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal_considerations_for_fonts#preferred-license) that Fedora considers the STIX license okay... From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Mon Aug 11 13:18:40 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 15:18:40 +0200 Subject: STIX license issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <48A03C30.9010707@sil.org> Vasile Gaburici wrote: > I recall watching a Barbara Beeton's TUG talk recording that some > people didn't like the STIX font license, and were waiting for the > GUST Math font. Does anyone know what exactly the problems are? I see > (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal_considerations_for_fonts#preferred-license) > that Fedora considers the STIX license okay... They listened to feedback from various people in the community and have dropped their own license and moved to the OFL: http://www.stixfonts.org/user_license.html http://www.stixfonts.org/STIXfaq.html Looking forward to the the final release they are promising for this summer :-) -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Mon Aug 11 14:25:32 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 16:25:32 +0200 Subject: STIX license issues? In-Reply-To: References: <48A03C30.9010707@sil.org> Message-ID: <48A04BDC.8030300@sil.org> Vasile Gaburici wrote: > Thanks for the info. BTW, does anyone know how to contact the STIX > fokes? The feedback form on their site sends a bouncing email. > > They miss some Romanian characters from the text part of the font. > Granted, I could edit the font after the release, but giving them > feedback before seem better... I'd suggest contacting Barbara directly. Her details are on http://www.ams.org/STIX/ -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From vgaburici at gmail.com Mon Aug 11 14:21:15 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2008 17:21:15 +0300 Subject: STIX license issues? In-Reply-To: <48A03C30.9010707@sil.org> References: <48A03C30.9010707@sil.org> Message-ID: Thanks for the info. BTW, does anyone know how to contact the STIX fokes? The feedback form on their site sends a bouncing email. They miss some Romanian characters from the text part of the font. Granted, I could edit the font after the release, but giving them feedback before seem better... On Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Nicolas Spalinger wrote: > Vasile Gaburici wrote: >> >> I recall watching a Barbara Beeton's TUG talk recording that some >> people didn't like the STIX font license, and were waiting for the >> GUST Math font. Does anyone know what exactly the problems are? I see >> >> (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal_considerations_for_fonts#preferred-license) >> that Fedora considers the STIX license okay... > > > They listened to feedback from various people in the community and have > dropped their own license and moved to the OFL: > http://www.stixfonts.org/user_license.html > http://www.stixfonts.org/STIXfaq.html > > Looking forward to the the final release they are promising for this summer > :-) > > > -- > Nicolas Spalinger > http://scripts.sil.org > http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ > https://launchpad.net/people/fonts > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-fonts-list mailing list > Fedora-fonts-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list > > From vgaburici at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 04:48:30 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 07:48:30 +0300 Subject: Best way to add a line to a config file from another package? Message-ID: I need to add line to /usr/share/texmf/dvips/config/config.ps to get some extra functionality enabled for lcdf-typetools, namely Type 42 support. The config.ps file is properly marked as a config file in texlive-texmf-dvips. Is there some infrastructure that's normally used to hack config files or should I just echo "..." >> config.ps? From vgaburici at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 12:41:46 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 15:41:46 +0300 Subject: Font subsetting is patented? Message-ID: Seems to me this way: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6252671/description.html But IANAL... From b.rahul.pm at gmail.com Tue Aug 12 13:47:24 2008 From: b.rahul.pm at gmail.com (Rahul Bhalerao) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 19:17:24 +0530 Subject: Problem enabling new language on gdm language selection list Message-ID: For adding a language on gdm's login screen, apart from having a locale file, few translations and required fonts, it is required that language is recognized by fontconfig. To make a fontconfig recognize the language, a related lang.orth file is required. With my experiment on this, I think there is also need to add an entry to fcfreetype.c of fontconfig and related language code entry in ttnameid.h of freetype2. After making all these changes the language is listed in the gdm's list. But this has a problem, as the entries of language code in ttnameid.h are MS and MAC codes for these languages and there are languages that do not have these codes but are included in iso639-2 language codes. Thus my question is, how much important is it to have an entry for the language in the file fcfreetype.c of fontconfig and related entry in the header file ttnameid.h of freetype2? And what is to be done for the language that does not have MS or MAC code? Is it possible to use our own codes? Can anyone please help resolving this? -- Rahul. http://b.rahul.pm.googlepages.com/home - http://rahulpmb.blogspot.com - http://samadiyami.blogspot.com - http://mazikavita.blogspot.com From behdad at behdad.org Tue Aug 12 15:22:16 2008 From: behdad at behdad.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2008 11:22:16 -0400 Subject: Problem enabling new language on gdm language selection list In-Reply-To: <1218550047.9000.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1218550047.9000.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <48A1AAA8.7010700@behdad.org> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Matthias Clasen wrote: > For b), we basically > ask fontconfig "do you have fonts for this language ?". It seems that > fontconfig says "no" if it doesn't know the language. It would be better > if fontconfig could say "I don't know" in that case... One way to detect that fontconfig doesn't know about the language is by querying the newly added FcLangGetCharSet(). It returns NULL if it doesn't know. behdad -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkihqqgACgkQn+4E5dNTERU5NgCbB/wfDVWBqzQjMYJxqyvOKNRL kAgAn3WV+V9VDVugPJ4Psq6Qn02d4o66 =dhTm -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From vgaburici at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 02:41:05 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 05:41:05 +0300 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar Message-ID: It's nice to see that the first (& only?) FOSS OpenType math font, (and by that I mean one that has a math script, like Cambria Math), has been added to rawhide. But the font is currently useless in Fedora, because (i) our XeTeX is too old, and (ii) the unicode-math XeLaTeX package is not installed. Unlike most other TeX projects, XeTeX has it's own SNV repository. I've been using the svn version of XeTeX for a while now, mainly because I've reported some bugs upstream (and I mean to the real upstream, not TeXLive). The repository includes all the required texmf bits that XeTeX needs, but unicode-math is considered experimental so it's not installed even by the svn installation script, thus it's missing even in TeXLive 2008. But it works well enough for me and others on that have tried it, including typesetting the whole AMS test document. Given that we package xetex separately in texlive-xetex, and since it doesn't seem likely that we'll ship TeXLive 2008 anytime soon, I'd like to prose that we switch xetex to its own upstream sources instead of getting the obsolete version from TeXLive 2007. This will fix (i) without having to wait for TeXLive 2008 to get packaged. Since we'd be using the svn sources, we can easily add unicode-math - it just needs some files copied to texmf, so we'd fix (ii) as well. From vgaburici at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 03:24:09 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 06:24:09 +0300 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar In-Reply-To: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> References: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: The STIX fonts do **NOT** currently have the math OpenType script. What this means is that they have nice collection of glyphs, but no special layout features, so they're pretty useless for actually typesetting something with them. The math script, aka MATH table, is a MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it has appeared in FOSS projects. These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), and now in Asana Math (FOSS). Fonts using these extensions are currenly usable only in MS Office 2007 (and some other minor non-FOSS products), but out of the FOSS world only XeTeX supports them right now. LuaTeX is scheduled to add support by the end of this year, together with the release of the GUST Math font. On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:52 AM, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote: > On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 05:41 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote: >> It's nice to see that the first (& only?) FOSS OpenType math font, > > STIXFonts? Well, not quite FOSS yet, but soon hopefully... > > http://www.stixfonts.org/user_license.html > > -- > Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams > From vgaburici at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 04:34:33 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:34:33 +0300 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar In-Reply-To: References: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: It turns out that STIX beta fonts have a modicum of MATH table (it didn't occur to me check), but not math script support. Because of the MATH table, STIXGeneral gets recognized as math font in Office 2007, but it doesn't really work; as soon as you type anything, you get Cambria Math instead. See: http://blogs.msdn.com/murrays/archive/2007/11/06/stix-beta-fonts.aspx. Also, the way the STIX fonts are spread across multiple otf files doesn't work with any typesetting software; but hey, if you just want to gawk at the glyphs with unicode.org's unibook viewer, it's fine. $ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf 251327 CFF 28 FFTM 30 GDEF 242 MATH 96 OS/2 4346 cmap 54 head 36 hhea 10026 hmtx 6 maxp 6393 name 32 post 572 prop $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf <> $ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf 354717 CFF 28 FFTM 30 GDEF 80 GPOS 1268 GSUB 12168 MATH 96 OS/2 2262 cmap 44 feat 54 head 36 hhea 12076 hmtx 6 maxp 128 morx 15289 name 32 post 542 prop $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf DFLT Default grek Greek latn Latin math $ otfinfo -f --script=math /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf dtls onum Oldstyle Figures salt Stylistic Alternates ssty On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:24 AM, Vasile Gaburici wrote: > The STIX fonts do **NOT** currently have the math OpenType script. > What this means is that they have nice collection of glyphs, but no > special layout features, so they're pretty useless for actually > typesetting something with them. The math script, aka MATH table, is a > MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any > documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite > extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite > this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it > has appeared in FOSS projects. > > These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), > and now in Asana Math (FOSS). Fonts using these extensions are > currenly usable only in MS Office 2007 (and some other minor non-FOSS > products), but out of the FOSS world only XeTeX supports them right > now. LuaTeX is scheduled to add support by the end of this year, > together with the release of the GUST Math font. > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:52 AM, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams > wrote: >> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 05:41 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote: >>> It's nice to see that the first (& only?) FOSS OpenType math font, >> >> STIXFonts? Well, not quite FOSS yet, but soon hopefully... >> >> http://www.stixfonts.org/user_license.html >> >> -- >> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams >> > From vgaburici at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 04:55:17 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 07:55:17 +0300 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar In-Reply-To: References: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: Unlike Office 2007, XeTeX checks if a font contains the math script, not the MATH table to decide whether it will work or not for Unicode math. So with STIX it complains: Package fontspec Warning: Font "STIXGeneral/ICU" at 12.0pt does not contain script 'Math' And predictably, it doesn't work: http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-asana.pdf http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-cambria.pdf http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-stix.pdf On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:34 AM, Vasile Gaburici wrote: > It turns out that STIX beta fonts have a modicum of MATH table (it > didn't occur to me check), but not math script support. Because of the > MATH table, STIXGeneral gets recognized as math font in Office 2007, > but it doesn't really work; as soon as you type anything, you get > Cambria Math instead. See: > http://blogs.msdn.com/murrays/archive/2007/11/06/stix-beta-fonts.aspx. > Also, the way the STIX fonts are spread across multiple otf files > doesn't work with any typesetting software; but hey, if you just want > to gawk at the glyphs with unicode.org's unibook viewer, it's fine. > > $ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf > 251327 CFF > 28 FFTM > 30 GDEF > 242 MATH > 96 OS/2 > 4346 cmap > 54 head > 36 hhea > 10026 hmtx > 6 maxp > 6393 name > 32 post > 572 prop > $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf > <> > > $ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf > 354717 CFF > 28 FFTM > 30 GDEF > 80 GPOS > 1268 GSUB > 12168 MATH > 96 OS/2 > 2262 cmap > 44 feat > 54 head > 36 hhea > 12076 hmtx > 6 maxp > 128 morx > 15289 name > 32 post > 542 prop > $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf > DFLT Default > grek Greek > latn Latin > math > $ otfinfo -f --script=math /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf > dtls > onum Oldstyle Figures > salt Stylistic Alternates > ssty > > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:24 AM, Vasile Gaburici wrote: >> The STIX fonts do **NOT** currently have the math OpenType script. >> What this means is that they have nice collection of glyphs, but no >> special layout features, so they're pretty useless for actually >> typesetting something with them. The math script, aka MATH table, is a >> MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any >> documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite >> extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite >> this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it >> has appeared in FOSS projects. >> >> These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), >> and now in Asana Math (FOSS). Fonts using these extensions are >> currenly usable only in MS Office 2007 (and some other minor non-FOSS >> products), but out of the FOSS world only XeTeX supports them right >> now. LuaTeX is scheduled to add support by the end of this year, >> together with the release of the GUST Math font. >> >> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:52 AM, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams >> wrote: >>> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 05:41 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote: >>>> It's nice to see that the first (& only?) FOSS OpenType math font, >>> >>> STIXFonts? Well, not quite FOSS yet, but soon hopefully... >>> >>> http://www.stixfonts.org/user_license.html >>> >>> -- >>> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams >>> >> > From vgaburici at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 07:09:18 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:09:18 +0300 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar In-Reply-To: References: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: It turns out that fontforge can already grok MATH tables [http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/math.html], so I had a look at the MATH tables oft the three contenders. No surprises that STIX doesn't work: a few constants are defined, but the rest of the sub-tables, like accents, shapes or constructions are completely empty. Calling this release a beta was a bit of a stretch... On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:55 AM, Vasile Gaburici wrote: > Unlike Office 2007, XeTeX checks if a font contains the math script, > not the MATH table to decide whether it will work or not for Unicode > math. So with STIX it complains: > > Package fontspec Warning: > Font "STIXGeneral/ICU" at 12.0pt does not contain script 'Math' > > And predictably, it doesn't work: > http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-asana.pdf > http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-cambria.pdf > http://www.cs.umd.edu/~gaburici/uni-stix.pdf > > > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 7:34 AM, Vasile Gaburici wrote: >> It turns out that STIX beta fonts have a modicum of MATH table (it >> didn't occur to me check), but not math script support. Because of the >> MATH table, STIXGeneral gets recognized as math font in Office 2007, >> but it doesn't really work; as soon as you type anything, you get >> Cambria Math instead. See: >> http://blogs.msdn.com/murrays/archive/2007/11/06/stix-beta-fonts.aspx. >> Also, the way the STIX fonts are spread across multiple otf files >> doesn't work with any typesetting software; but hey, if you just want >> to gawk at the glyphs with unicode.org's unibook viewer, it's fine. >> >> $ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf >> 251327 CFF >> 28 FFTM >> 30 GDEF >> 242 MATH >> 96 OS/2 >> 4346 cmap >> 54 head >> 36 hhea >> 10026 hmtx >> 6 maxp >> 6393 name >> 32 post >> 572 prop >> $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/stix/STIXGeneral.otf >> <> >> >> $ otfinfo -t /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf >> 354717 CFF >> 28 FFTM >> 30 GDEF >> 80 GPOS >> 1268 GSUB >> 12168 MATH >> 96 OS/2 >> 2262 cmap >> 44 feat >> 54 head >> 36 hhea >> 12076 hmtx >> 6 maxp >> 128 morx >> 15289 name >> 32 post >> 542 prop >> $ otfinfo -s /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf >> DFLT Default >> grek Greek >> latn Latin >> math >> $ otfinfo -f --script=math /usr/share/fonts/asana-math/asana-math.otf >> dtls >> onum Oldstyle Figures >> salt Stylistic Alternates >> ssty >> >> >> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 6:24 AM, Vasile Gaburici wrote: >>> The STIX fonts do **NOT** currently have the math OpenType script. >>> What this means is that they have nice collection of glyphs, but no >>> special layout features, so they're pretty useless for actually >>> typesetting something with them. The math script, aka MATH table, is a >>> MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any >>> documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite >>> extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite >>> this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it >>> has appeared in FOSS projects. >>> >>> These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), >>> and now in Asana Math (FOSS). Fonts using these extensions are >>> currenly usable only in MS Office 2007 (and some other minor non-FOSS >>> products), but out of the FOSS world only XeTeX supports them right >>> now. LuaTeX is scheduled to add support by the end of this year, >>> together with the release of the GUST Math font. >>> >>> On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 5:52 AM, Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams >>> wrote: >>>> On Wed, 2008-08-13 at 05:41 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote: >>>>> It's nice to see that the first (& only?) FOSS OpenType math font, >>>> >>>> STIXFonts? Well, not quite FOSS yet, but soon hopefully... >>>> >>>> http://www.stixfonts.org/user_license.html >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams >>>> >>> >> > From dave at lab6.com Wed Aug 13 09:29:43 2008 From: dave at lab6.com (Dave Crossland) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 11:29:43 +0200 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar In-Reply-To: References: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> Message-ID: <2285a9d20808130229w66097865lea79fb8ac018b754@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici : > > The math script, aka MATH table, is a > MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any > documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite > extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite > this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it > has appeared in FOSS projects. > > These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), > and now in Asana Math (FOSS). AIUI, the MATH table in Cambria is developed specifically for Cambria and will not be a 100% fit for other fonts; this is hy MS hasnt done anything about documenting it properly. Dave From vgaburici at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 10:11:32 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:11:32 +0300 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar In-Reply-To: <2285a9d20808130229w66097865lea79fb8ac018b754@mail.gmail.com> References: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> <2285a9d20808130229w66097865lea79fb8ac018b754@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: No, there actualy is some (unofficial?) MS documentation for MATH tables. It has been seen by both George Williams (fontforge) and Apostolos Syropoulos (asana). On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: > 2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici : >> >> The math script, aka MATH table, is a >> MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any >> documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite >> extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite >> this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it >> has appeared in FOSS projects. >> >> These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), >> and now in Asana Math (FOSS). > > AIUI, the MATH table in Cambria is developed specifically for Cambria > and will not be a 100% fit for other fonts; this is hy MS hasnt done > anything about documenting it properly. > > Dave > > From dave at lab6.com Wed Aug 13 11:33:29 2008 From: dave at lab6.com (Dave Crossland) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:33:29 +0200 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar In-Reply-To: References: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> <2285a9d20808130229w66097865lea79fb8ac018b754@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2285a9d20808130433s598a8388x585024725706d5cb@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici : > No, there actualy is some (unofficial?) MS documentation for MATH > tables. It has been seen by both George Williams (fontforge) and > Apostolos Syropoulos (asana). Sorry; I didnt put enough emphasis on _properly_ :-) > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: >> 2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici : >>> >>> MS has not yet officially submitted any >>> documentation for these math layout extensions >> >> AIUI, the MATH table in Cambria is developed specifically for Cambria >> and will not be a 100% fit for other fonts; this is hy MS hasnt done >> anything about documenting it properly. From vgaburici at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 11:43:01 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 14:43:01 +0300 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar In-Reply-To: <2285a9d20808130229w66097865lea79fb8ac018b754@mail.gmail.com> References: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> <2285a9d20808130229w66097865lea79fb8ac018b754@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: As for the "developed specifically for Cambria" that's a myth. If you want to make statements like that, it's more appropriate to say that TeX was designed for CM. There are 22 dimensions for a TeX math font. There are over 50 dimensions ("constants") for an OpenType MATH table, and some of them are lists! The MS folks in charge of this have stated on their blogs & typophile that they wanted to move most of the TeX built-in constants into the font. They were not kidding. MATH table flexibility does not stop there, you can have as many size variants as you like say for parentheses or radicals; these are specified as lists; unlike TeX there are no built-in rules for choosing the next "bigger" glyph from the font. Asana makes good use of this, there are up to 5-6 variants for things like widehats, tildes etc. When it runs out of the pre-designed stuff, it applies a construction rule that's also defined via lists, although this isn't anymore flexible than TeX AFAICT. You are limited to horizontal and vertical constructions. There's also a sub-table specifying alignment axis for math accents. This differs from how mark or mkmk work. The positioning info is shared between the accent and the letter. I don't think TeX has this at all. There's also some adjustment field, but fontforge crashes if you click on it :( On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: > 2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici : >> >> The math script, aka MATH table, is a >> MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any >> documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite >> extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite >> this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it >> has appeared in FOSS projects. >> >> These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), >> and now in Asana Math (FOSS). > > AIUI, the MATH table in Cambria is developed specifically for Cambria > and will not be a 100% fit for other fonts; this is hy MS hasnt done > anything about documenting it properly. > > Dave > > From dave at lab6.com Wed Aug 13 11:59:12 2008 From: dave at lab6.com (Dave Crossland) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 13:59:12 +0200 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar In-Reply-To: References: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> <2285a9d20808130229w66097865lea79fb8ac018b754@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <2285a9d20808130459r77d819dfx3f9979fdf5054944@mail.gmail.com> 2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici : > > As for the "developed specifically for Cambria" that's a myth. Okay cool - glad to hear this :-) > There's also some adjustment field, but fontforge crashes if > you click on it :( I hope you'll send GWW the bug report :-) From b.rahul.pm at gmail.com Wed Aug 13 13:15:00 2008 From: b.rahul.pm at gmail.com (Rahul Bhalerao) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 18:45:00 +0530 Subject: Problem enabling new language on gdm language selection list In-Reply-To: <1218550047.9000.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1218550047.9000.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > What gdm does it is only shows a language in the list if a) we have > translations for it and b) we have fonts for it. For b), we basically > ask fontconfig "do you have fonts for this language ?". It seems that > fontconfig says "no" if it doesn't know the language. It would be better > if fontconfig could say "I don't know" in that case... > Apart from these three conditions, even if fontconfig knows the language, is it necessary that fcfreetype.c has MAC language code defined for that language, in order to list it in gdm? When I tried adding .orth file, the "fc-list fontname lang" listed the appropriate language, but still it did not appear in gdm list until, the definitions were made in fcfreetype.c and ttnameid.h. Rahul. From behdad at behdad.org Wed Aug 13 14:06:20 2008 From: behdad at behdad.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Wed, 13 Aug 2008 10:06:20 -0400 Subject: Asana-Math: close but no cigar In-Reply-To: References: <1218595954.5233.12.camel@ignacio.lan> <2285a9d20808130229w66097865lea79fb8ac018b754@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48A2EA5C.7030907@behdad.org> Vasile Gaburici wrote: > No, there actualy is some (unofficial?) MS documentation for MATH > tables. It has been seen by both George Williams (fontforge) and > Apostolos Syropoulos (asana). Ack. If someone needs the document, ask me offlist. behdad > On Wed, Aug 13, 2008 at 12:29 PM, Dave Crossland wrote: >> 2008/8/13 Vasile Gaburici : >>> The math script, aka MATH table, is a >>> MS extension to OpenType. MS has not yet officially submitted any >>> documentation for these math layout extensions -- and they are quite >>> extensive -- not even in the draft 1.5/1.6 OpenType spec. Despite >>> this, it is the de-facto OpenType math standard, and support for it >>> has appeared in FOSS projects. >>> >>> These extensions are implemented only in the Cambria Math font (MS), >>> and now in Asana Math (FOSS). >> AIUI, the MATH table in Cambria is developed specifically for Cambria >> and will not be a 100% fit for other fonts; this is hy MS hasnt done >> anything about documenting it properly. >> >> Dave >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-fonts-list mailing list > Fedora-fonts-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list > From behdad at behdad.org Thu Aug 14 20:14:31 2008 From: behdad at behdad.org (Behdad Esfahbod) Date: Thu, 14 Aug 2008 16:14:31 -0400 Subject: Problem enabling new language on gdm language selection list In-Reply-To: References: <1218550047.9000.2.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <48A49227.7000604@behdad.org> Rahul Bhalerao wrote: > On Tue, Aug 12, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote: > >> What gdm does it is only shows a language in the list if a) we have >> translations for it and b) we have fonts for it. For b), we basically >> ask fontconfig "do you have fonts for this language ?". It seems that >> fontconfig says "no" if it doesn't know the language. It would be better >> if fontconfig could say "I don't know" in that case... Patch for this committed upstream: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=547826 I'll build it in rawhide when koji is back. > Apart from these three conditions, even if fontconfig knows the > language, is it necessary that fcfreetype.c has MAC language code > defined for that language, in order to list it in gdm? > > When I tried adding .orth file, the "fc-list fontname lang" listed the > appropriate language, but still it did not appear in gdm list until, > the definitions were made in fcfreetype.c and ttnameid.h. That makes no sense. The only thing those values are used for is to extract localized family and style names from font files. Those values are defined by MS and can't be free extended. And your fonts needs to use it for them to have any effect at all. > Rahul. behdad From vgaburici at gmail.com Sat Aug 16 07:21:11 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:21:11 +0300 Subject: FontForge FontView? Message-ID: According to http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/source-build.html, it's recommend to install the FontView bitmap font, which is used to label the font matrix entries, so you can visually check if you put the glyphs in the right slots. Shouldn't Fedora be shipping this? I know it's a bitmap font, but unless you're volunteering to move fontforge out of the X11 font world, FontView is needed to use it properly. According to http://khdd.net/kanou/fonts/ff/fontviewfont-en.html, FontView is a derivative of clearlyU, but with a lot more coverage (60K+ glyphs vs 9K+). Perhaps we should package FontView instead of clearlyU? From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sat Aug 16 08:17:16 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:17:16 +0200 Subject: FontForge FontView? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1218874636.12598.1.camel@rousalka.okg> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 10:21 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote: > According to http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/source-build.html, it's > recommend to install the > FontView bitmap font, which is used to label the font matrix entries, > so you can visually check if you put the glyphs in the right slots. > > Shouldn't Fedora be shipping this? Feel free to package it :p. The clearlyU packager may then chose to frop his package if he feels the need to. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sat Aug 16 08:22:10 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 16 Aug 2008 10:22:10 +0200 Subject: STIX license issues? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1218874930.12598.5.camel@rousalka.okg> On Mon, 2008-08-11 at 15:31 +0300, Vasile Gaburici wrote: > I recall watching a Barbara Beeton's TUG talk recording that some > people didn't like the STIX font license, and were waiting for the > GUST Math font. Does anyone know what exactly the problems are? I see > (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal_considerations_for_fonts#preferred-license) > that Fedora considers the STIX license okay... Though we obviously disagree with Debian on the meaning of the original STIX license (Debians arguments were most unconvincing), we do agree it's a badly worded license (writers of new junk font licenses should be shot, I'm thinking about you GUST and you Liberation lawyers). Fortunately upstream has promised OFL-ing "soon" ("soon" in STIX speak is not the on timescale you're used to, STIX happens in a strange slow-motion plane) -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cchance at redhat.com Tue Aug 26 04:39:24 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Chance) Date: Tue, 26 Aug 2008 00:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Subject: liberation-fonts is updated: fixed some hinting problems. In-Reply-To: <21931228.41219725541629.JavaMail.cchance@sashimi.bne.redhat.com> Message-ID: <16841668.61219725559216.JavaMail.cchance@sashimi.bne.redhat.com> Hi, liberation-fonts (1.04.90.devel) is updated. There are some hinting problem fixes: http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/taskinfo?taskID=785966 The files are available here: https://fedorahosted.org/releases/l/i/liberation-fonts/ Please feel free to provide your valuable feedback. Best Regards, Caius Chance. -- Caius Carlos Chance < cchance AT redhat DOT com > Red Hat APAC | http://apac.redhat.com/disclaimer/ From vgaburici at gmail.com Wed Aug 27 08:03:16 2008 From: vgaburici at gmail.com (Vasile Gaburici) Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:03:16 +0300 Subject: CC-ing the bugs list does not work? Message-ID: I've CC'd on some bug reports I've sent to (they don't use a bug tracker anymore), but the archives of fedora-fonts-bugs-list do show these messages... Does anyone know why?