From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun May 4 15:01:07 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 04 May 2008 17:01:07 +0200 Subject: Help a little, make Fedora 10 a lot better Message-ID: <1209913267.4312.89.camel@rousalka.okg> Mission accomplished? ===================== It's the half-year mark, a final package set is being spun, blocking problems have been resolved, the sky is blue? People can now focus on this version release parties right? WRONG It's time to think of the NEXT version release parties. And how to make the next Fedora version rock so much the parties will be HUGE. In particular, care of issues that will need a full release cycle to mature before the next release. We're not there (yet) ===================== Such as? fonts. Fedora inherited from Red Hat Linux an impeccable American server OS pedigree. Unfortunately it also inherited its ?American server OS limits. Massive non-English Linux desktop deployments often use Debian or Debian derivatives. Meanwhile we discuss English locales support. Why fonts? ========== More than flash or mp3 support we need more fonts, so the text that makes most of our UI renders fine. It does not matter how many cool features the Desktop team adds in the next cycle ? if the UI text screams to the user ?I hate you? he won't install better fonts manually. He'll switch to a competitor that deploys Fedora-developed features with nice fonts. Why fonts? (really) =================== ?We need more artsy fonts so the art team can produce all kinds of cool promotional Fedora material (including release party flyers). We need more international fonts so regions where the Fedora presence is currently nil can join the partying. We need more fonts so the work of all the non-server SIGs is properly appreciated. Over all, we need more fonts so users can customize their desktop to the point they can't envision using something else than Fedora. Why me? ======= The situation got a little better during the Fedora 9 cycle. But we're still badly lagging distributions that have been investing in good font experience for a long time (Debian, Mandriva). And the Fedora 9 effort was produced by few people, that can not scale indefinitely. The Fedora font wishlist has 32 entries today. Not counting the public font lists it references: only fonts someone explicitly requested. That's more than 2/3 of the total of our currently packaged fonts. The list is growing, not shrinking. Many entries have half a year (before we didn't tack them). Clearly a targeted effort by new packagers is required to fix the situation by Fedora 10 time. It's easy! ========== Font packaging is not hard: 1. we've got good official streamlined packaging guidelines http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Fonts/Packaging 2. most font upstreams make few releases; you don't have to track them closely A font package is perfect for would-be packagers that need to ?to learn the ropes on a simple package. A font package is perfect for experienced packagers that do not have the time to take care of another time-waster. Let's party! ============ So here's the deal: A. We need 32 packagers to adopt a font in the SIG wishlist: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Fonts/Triaging/Pipeline#wishes (Including fonts best packaged locally. It's a chicken-and-egg problem: we won't get local packagers before Fedora is attractive enough for them to join) B. We need them to package their font by Fedora 10 alpha? C. *Then* we can have huge Fedora 10 parties D. For Fedora 11, repeat with ?getting better than the competition? as objective ? ?So the result can be tested and the eventual buglets resolved upstream and in fontconfig before the final release -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Mon May 5 15:04:17 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 17:04:17 +0200 (CEST) Subject: [OT] Re: Help a little, make Fedora 10 a lot better In-Reply-To: <1209965876.12250.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1209913267.4312.89.camel@rousalka.okg> <1209965876.12250.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <37842.192.54.193.51.1209999857.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Lun 5 mai 2008 07:37, Rodd Clarkson a ?crit : > Are you talking about the fact that I've raised issues with being > stuck with Letter paper because I use US english? > > That might be my issue, but that isn't the problem as far as I see it. > This is as much a problem for anyone that wants to use some other > language than english, It may be... > but lives in the US and is stuff with A4 instead of letter. however I do not think the fact it was discussed for an English locale is incidental. It is pretty symptomatic of our community bias. -- Nicolas Mailhot From shadowjksp at yahoo.se Tue May 6 04:43:45 2008 From: shadowjksp at yahoo.se (Jan Knutar) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 07:43:45 +0300 Subject: Help a little, make Fedora 10 a lot better References: <1209913267.4312.89.camel@rousalka.okg> Message-ID: <2945f5-ss2.ln1@ludicrous.enivax.net> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Over all, we need more fonts so users can customize their desktop to the > point they can't envision using something else than Fedora. I would like Vista-style modal dialog accompanied with warning sounds and grayscaling of the rest of the screen, telling me that "Warning, you just upgraded package X through yum, and X wants to modify your font settings slightly, additionally you're currently running KDE and completing the upgrade of X will launch a gnome application which will launch the gnome settings daemon, which will also slightly change your current font hinting and antialising settings, and possibly also adjust your DPI by one or two units. Are you sure you want to continue?" There's nothing more unsettling than having something about the fonts change slightly, it's the same font but something's not right, but you can't quite tell what it is. It's blurrier/softer than before, or rougher / grottier / blockier than before, the size might be just slightly different too. You enter new data in openoffice calc, and rows mysteriously become one or two pixels higher as you press enter, but yet you're typing with the same font and size that the rest of the cells are, or atleast that's what ooo claims. You're feeling discomfort and perhaps a bit nauseous at first, a sensation somewhat similar to motion-sickness. Application after application succumb, either immediately or the next time you run them. Even konsole and gnome-terminal that usually are so benign and rarely try to stab you in the eyes turn evil! But they're often easier to get back on your side, and if all else fails you've still got xterm, hopefully. For the rest, you spend hours trying one font after another (or in the case of firefox, combinations of 5 fonts) in different sizes, but you just can't make it look the way it looked before... Heck, by now even if you'd stumbled on to the original settings, you've changed so much else that it's still not the same. I wonder if I'm the only one who's wrestled with this :) (And in this typing moment I just managed to get kmail and knode to look like they used to, but then xchat went bad, and I had already made it look like it used to... Or maybe I didn't get it to look like it did, just close enough, and I got used to that close-enough version, and now that it's really back to normal i'm getting discomfort from the slight change again?) Sorry for this long rant :) From cchance at redhat.com Tue May 6 06:54:53 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 16:54:53 +1000 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. Message-ID: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> Hi, This is Caius Chance who is the package maintainer from Red Hat. I am writing for the recent updates of Liberation Fonts: - The latest stable version is liberation-fonts-1.03-1.fc9 . - The font tarball had been hosted on https://fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts/. It is in trunk towards version 1.04. - The source on fh.o is still in progress of conversion. We are quality checking to see if the generated TTFs from SFDs (which generated from initial TTFs of original manufacturer) are the same. ref: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=444392 Best Regards, Caius. -- CAIUS CHANCE | CCHANCE AT REDHAT DOT COM X8116 | SW ENG | ENG-I18N | RED HAT APAC APAC DOT REDHAT DOT COM SLASH DISCLAIMER From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Tue May 6 19:04:27 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Tue, 06 May 2008 21:04:27 +0200 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> Le mardi 06 mai 2008 ? 16:54 +1000, Caius Carlos Chance a ?crit : > Hi, Hi, > This is Caius Chance who is the package maintainer from Red Hat. I am > writing for the recent updates of Liberation Fonts: Thank you for posting this. Many people have complained in the past of the Liberation communication blackhole. I hope this period will soon be behind us, and you'll get an active community interface. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From cchance at redhat.com Wed May 7 00:06:53 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 10:06:53 +1000 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> Message-ID: <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> Hi Nicolas, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > Thank you for posting this. Many people have complained in the past of > the Liberation communication blackhole. I hope this period will soon be > behind us, and you'll get an active community interface. > You are welcome. It was also a communication blackhole between me and the initial font manufacturer in fixing the previous bugs. There was not allowed to modify on the fonts except by their hands. My power alone is not strong enough to make this project sparkle, but it needs all of your support. From now on, I do believe the quality of these fonts will be boosted by active community with passion and profession on font designing/editing. Sincerely encourage everyone who are interested on Liberation Fonts join this project and have fun, from edit to testing. :) Best Regards, Caius Chance. -- CAIUS CHANCE | CCHANCE AT REDHAT DOT COM X8116 | SW ENG | ENG-I18N | RED HAT APAC APAC DOT REDHAT DOT COM SLASH DISCLAIMER From cchance at redhat.com Wed May 7 04:47:19 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 14:47:19 +1000 Subject: Better testing methods for Liberation Fonts? Message-ID: <48213457.5020000@redhat.com> Hi, For the quality testing on liberation-fonts in the progress of full source hosting on fedorahosted.org, I have performed some tests mentioned in this bug: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=444392 As the screenshots attached there, there are some horizontal displacements on certain glyphs. I also manually tested in GIMP on the PSD files which having two versions of font overlapping each other. However, it might be excellent if any of you could provide some better ideas on the testing? Thank you very much. Best Regards, Caius Chance. -- CAIUS CHANCE | CCHANCE AT REDHAT DOT COM X8116 | SW ENG | ENG-I18N | RED HAT APAC APAC DOT REDHAT DOT COM SLASH DISCLAIMER From moyogo at gmail.com Wed May 7 17:48:28 2008 From: moyogo at gmail.com (Denis Jacquerye) Date: Wed, 7 May 2008 19:48:28 +0200 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> Message-ID: <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> 2008/5/7 Caius Carlos Chance : > Hi Nicolas, > > > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > > > Thank you for posting this. Many people have complained in the past of > > the Liberation communication blackhole. I hope this period will soon be > > behind us, and you'll get an active community interface. > > > > > You are welcome. It was also a communication blackhole between me and the > initial font manufacturer in fixing the previous bugs. There was not allowed > to modify on the fonts except by their hands. > > My power alone is not strong enough to make this project sparkle, but it > needs all of your support. From now on, I do believe the quality of these > fonts will be boosted by active community with passion and profession on > font designing/editing. > > Sincerely encourage everyone who are interested on Liberation Fonts join > this project and have fun, from edit to testing. :) > > Best Regards, > Caius Chance. Hi Caius and Nicolas, Where should we send patches? -- Denis Moyogo Jacquerye --- http://home.sus.mcgill.ca/~moyogo Nk?t? ya Kong? m?bal? --- http://info-langues-congo.1sd.org/ DejaVu fonts --- http://dejavu.sourceforge.net/ Unicode (UTF-8) From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed May 7 18:52:19 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 07 May 2008 20:52:19 +0200 Subject: [Openfontlibrary] [Fwd: Updates of liberation-fonts.] In-Reply-To: <4228A65C-F898-4175-ADF5-8204EBBB3BCF@centroin.com.br> References: <1210101400.29476.8.camel@rousalka.okg> <4228A65C-F898-4175-ADF5-8204EBBB3BCF@centroin.com.br> Message-ID: <1210186339.25619.5.camel@rousalka.okg> Le mercredi 07 mai 2008 ? 15:07 -0300, Gustavo Ferreira a ?crit : > hello, > > > http://koji.fedoraproject.org/koji/buildinfo?buildID=45785 > > reading the changelog in the link above, it seems like there were > only small changes in some metainfo fields, and no changes in the > design (except for "alignement mismatch dot accents") -- is that > right? My (limited) understanding is Liberation is getting re-hosted from RedHat to Fedora with the objective to set it up as a normal floss project, with regular public releases, scripted build-from-source, sfd sources in a VCS, patch merging, etc. So the first step is not so much changing the font as switching its infrastructure so it can be maintained as a community project (like DejaVu, Lohit, etc) You can get more answers on the Fedora fonts list > also: was the license updated to plain GPL+font exception, without > the polemic extra clauses under which the first release came out? > > and finally: is there a zip with the current ttf versions of the > fonts somewhere? -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From cchance at redhat.com Wed May 7 23:40:56 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 09:40:56 +1000 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> Hi Denis, At the moment please send to this mailing list. We are still looking for a liberation-fonts exclusive one. :) Best Regards, Caius. Denis Jacquerye wrote: > 2008/5/7 Caius Carlos Chance : > >> Hi Nicolas, >> >> >> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >> >> >>> Thank you for posting this. Many people have complained in the past of >>> the Liberation communication blackhole. I hope this period will soon be >>> behind us, and you'll get an active community interface. >>> >>> >>> >> You are welcome. It was also a communication blackhole between me and the >> initial font manufacturer in fixing the previous bugs. There was not allowed >> to modify on the fonts except by their hands. >> >> My power alone is not strong enough to make this project sparkle, but it >> needs all of your support. From now on, I do believe the quality of these >> fonts will be boosted by active community with passion and profession on >> font designing/editing. >> >> Sincerely encourage everyone who are interested on Liberation Fonts join >> this project and have fun, from edit to testing. :) >> >> Best Regards, >> Caius Chance. >> > > Hi Caius and Nicolas, > > Where should we send patches? > > -- CAIUS CHANCE | CCHANCE AT REDHAT DOT COM X8116 | SW ENG | ENG-I18N | RED HAT APAC APAC DOT REDHAT DOT COM SLASH DISCLAIMER From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu May 8 09:44:46 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 11:44:46 +0200 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> Le jeudi 08 mai 2008 ? 09:40 +1000, Caius Carlos Chance a ?crit : > Hi Denis, Hi ?Caius, > At the moment please send to this mailing list. We are still looking for > a liberation-fonts exclusive one. :) You're welcome to use this list as long as you want. It's not as if it's high traffic and everyone on it should be interested in Liberation progress anyway. In fact your posting there made me wonder if we shouldn't repurpose this list in a Lohit+Liberation+Fonts SIG one. Certainly sharing an IRC channel with debian font packagers and other font projects didn't hurt us at all. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu May 8 18:33:34 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 08 May 2008 20:33:34 +0200 Subject: Better testing methods for Liberation Fonts? In-Reply-To: <48213457.5020000@redhat.com> References: <48213457.5020000@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1210271614.7910.6.camel@rousalka.okg> Le mercredi 07 mai 2008 ? 14:47 +1000, Caius Carlos Chance a ?crit : > Hi, > > For the quality testing on liberation-fonts in the progress of full > source hosting on fedorahosted.org, I have performed some tests > mentioned in this bug: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=444392 > > As the screenshots attached there, there are some horizontal > displacements on certain glyphs. I also manually tested in GIMP on the > PSD files which having two versions of font overlapping each other. > > However, it might be excellent if any of you could provide some better > ideas on the testing? IIRC Davide Viti of the Debian font team has a font regression suite. It would be nice to package it and use it for all our font packages http://d-i.alioth.debian.org/gtk-frontend/screenshots/ BTW your testing with OO.o is non-representative as it uses its own font stack different from the one every other app uses. IIRC right now you have GTK-style font rendering (pango...), QT-style font rendering (being merged with the GTK one at f.d.o), and one-of-a-kind OO.o & java font rendering. Since you're going to be responsible for a highly visible font package it might be a good idea to drop in one of freedesktop's text layout summits http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/TextLayout to make contacts and make some publicity around Liberation. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From cchance at redhat.com Fri May 9 00:04:18 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 10:04:18 +1000 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> Message-ID: <48239502.2020104@redhat.com> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > You're welcome to use this list as long as you want. It's not as if it's > high traffic and everyone on it should be interested in Liberation > progress anyway. > I have emailed to admin of this mailing list server for a new mailing list, but anyways we could still discuss at here if most of us preferred. I don't even sure if they will follow up my request. :) > In fact your posting there made me wonder if we shouldn't repurpose this > list in a Lohit+Liberation+Fonts SIG one. Certainly sharing an IRC > channel with debian font packagers and other font projects didn't hurt > us at all. > > BTW, I have created a channel #liberation-fonts in freenode as the official IRC FYI. I do agree we could share any current IRC channels with debian font packagers and other font projects too. Best Regards, Caius. -- CAIUS CHANCE | CCHANCE AT REDHAT DOT COM X8116 | SW ENG | ENG-I18N | RED HAT APAC APAC DOT REDHAT DOT COM SLASH DISCLAIMER From ianweller at gmail.com Fri May 9 20:08:00 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 15:08:00 -0500 (CDT) Subject: "Complete Guide to Pre-Installed Fonts" Message-ID: http://www.apaddedcell.com/web-fonts This page I found today has a complete list of all fonts on Mac, Windows, and Ubuntu. The author asks for lists of pre-installed fonts for other distros... are we game? -- ian From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Fri May 9 21:02:32 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Fri, 09 May 2008 23:02:32 +0200 Subject: "Complete Guide to Pre-Installed Fonts" In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1210366952.3222.1.camel@rousalka.okg> Le vendredi 09 mai 2008 ? 15:08 -0500, Ian Weller a ?crit : > http://www.apaddedcell.com/web-fonts > > This page I found today has a complete list of all fonts on Mac, Windows, > and Ubuntu. The author asks for lists of pre-installed fonts for other > distros... are we game? Please do so (just install all the -fonts packages, and fill the list) :p We should be as good as Ubuntu in 2007, though to be honest if one did and exhaustive font comparaison we're still far from the Debian font team. -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From ianweller at gmail.com Fri May 9 21:06:36 2008 From: ianweller at gmail.com (Ian Weller) Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 16:06:36 -0500 (CDT) Subject: "Complete Guide to Pre-Installed Fonts" In-Reply-To: <1210366952.3222.1.camel@rousalka.okg> References: <1210366952.3222.1.camel@rousalka.okg> Message-ID: On Fri, 9 May 2008, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Please do so (just install all the -fonts packages, and fill the > list) :p We should be as good as Ubuntu in 2007, though to be honest if > one did and exhaustive font comparaison we're still far from the Debian > font team. > Would it be preferred to only include fonts that come on the Live CD? Those are fonts that are "pre-insatlled" most of the time. However, I did notice that the Ubuntu list contained the msftcorefonts package, which I assume doesn't come on the CD. -- ian From moyogo at gmail.com Sat May 10 06:45:13 2008 From: moyogo at gmail.com (Denis Jacquerye) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 08:45:13 +0200 Subject: "Complete Guide to Pre-Installed Fonts" In-Reply-To: References: <1210366952.3222.1.camel@rousalka.okg> Message-ID: <8ebc61110805092345vbb3d495m3d09fffc8a1d7a44@mail.gmail.com> 2008/5/9 Ian Weller : > On Fri, 9 May 2008, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > >> Please do so (just install all the -fonts packages, and fill the >> list) :p We should be as good as Ubuntu in 2007, though to be honest if >> one did and exhaustive font comparaison we're still far from the Debian >> font team. >> > Would it be preferred to only include fonts that come on the Live CD? > Those are fonts that are "pre-insatlled" most of the time. > > However, I did notice that the Ubuntu list contained the msftcorefonts > package, which I assume doesn't come on the CD. "Starred entries in the Ubuntu column are installed by the mscorefonts package. According to a survey on the Ubuntu Forums, approximately 74% of Ubuntu users have mscorefonts installed." Have a good day, Denis Moyogo Jacquerye From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sat May 10 08:34:11 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 10:34:11 +0200 Subject: "Complete Guide to Pre-Installed Fonts" In-Reply-To: References: <1210366952.3222.1.camel@rousalka.okg> Message-ID: <1210408451.7455.1.camel@rousalka.okg> Le vendredi 09 mai 2008 ? 16:06 -0500, Ian Weller a ?crit : > On Fri, 9 May 2008, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > > Please do so (just install all the -fonts packages, and fill the > > list) :p We should be as good as Ubuntu in 2007, though to be honest if > > one did and exhaustive font comparaison we're still far from the Debian > > font team. > > > Would it be preferred to only include fonts that come on the Live CD? > Those are fonts that are "pre-insatlled" most of the time. When in doubt and if you have the time and energy you can do two categories and document both the fonts on the LiveCD and other Fedora fonts (since after all the rest of the repo is reacheable from the livecd) -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From fangqq at gmail.com Sun May 11 19:47:51 2008 From: fangqq at gmail.com (Qianqian Fang) Date: Sun, 11 May 2008 15:47:51 -0400 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> Message-ID: <48274D67.7030206@gmail.com> hi Caius I've heard some controversies [1,2] about the GPLv2+Exception+Restriction type of license for Liberation font families. I am wondering if there is any plan from Ascender or Redhat to make a clarification on this. The particular reason I ask is because I heard suggestions to port the Latin glyphs (vector or rasterized bitmaps) from Liberation to WenQuanYi ZenHei or BitmapSong, as the both WenQuanYi Fonts are GPLv2+Font Embedding Exception license. Does the additional restrictions of Liberation make it incompatible with GPL? Qianqian [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts#License_controversy [2] http://www.mail-archive.com/debian-legal at lists.debian.org/msg36584.html Caius Carlos Chance wrote: > Hi, > > This is Caius Chance who is the package maintainer from Red Hat. I am > writing for the recent updates of Liberation Fonts: > > - The latest stable version is liberation-fonts-1.03-1.fc9 > . > > - The font tarball had been hosted on > https://fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts/. It is in trunk towards > version 1.04. > > - The source on fh.o is still in progress of conversion. We are > quality checking to see if the generated TTFs from SFDs (which > generated from initial TTFs of original manufacturer) are the same. > > ref: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=444392 > > Best Regards, > Caius. > From petersen at redhat.com Wed May 14 00:45:23 2008 From: petersen at redhat.com (Jens Petersen) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 10:45:23 +1000 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> Message-ID: <482A3623.6050004@redhat.com> > You're welcome to use this list as long as you want. It's not as if it's > high traffic and everyone on it should be interested in Liberation > progress anyway. > > In fact your posting there made me wonder if we shouldn't repurpose this > list in a Lohit+Liberation+Fonts SIG one. Certainly sharing an IRC > channel with debian font packagers and other font projects didn't hurt > us at all. I agree let's use this list and ##fonts for discussion on Liberation fonts for now. We actually have an old list for Lohit. I suppose another way would be to subscribe this list to lohit-devel-list and a possible liberation-fonts-list, but that may be overkill? Jens From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Wed May 14 15:41:30 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:41:30 +0200 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <482B082A.7090704@sil.org> > At the moment please send to this mailing list. We are still looking for > a liberation-fonts exclusive one. :) Hi everyone, It's good to see the development process of Liberation opening up :-) During the last LGM where we talked about fonts and related topics I thought I'll clone the Liberation repo and see how I can contribute. I've found a few things here and there and I'll be sending a few patches in separate emails. Hope you find them useful. The metadata in the font needs to be checked more fully. The external reference EULA needs to be fixed. I think you'll all agree that "Use of this Liberation font software is subject to the license agreement under which you accepted the Liberation font software." is confusing at best. We need the full license in the appropriate metadata field in the various ttfs. I'd recommend having more descriptive information about the font project: who has done what, the Unicode coverage, etc... added to the source tree. A FONTLOG is a good format for that: http://scripts.sil.org/OFL-FAQ_web#00e3bd04 I'd recommend putting back the original ttfs in the repository as a comparison to the ones build using a free build path. Could we also put the spec (and then possibly other packaging folder for other systems) in the source tree as well? Cheers, -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Wed May 14 15:52:56 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:52:56 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Adjust-fontforge-path-with-env-as-a-source-build Message-ID: <482B0AD8.3050601@sil.org> Please find attached a patch against git://git.fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts.git Cheers, -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0003-Adjust-fontforge-path-with-env-as-a-source-build-ins.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 643 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Wed May 14 15:53:37 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:53:37 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] We-need-versioned-tarballs Message-ID: <482B0B01.6010504@sil.org> Please find attached a patch against git://git.fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts.git Cheers, -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0004-We-need-versioned-tarballs.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 1256 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Wed May 14 15:54:55 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:54:55 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Add-ignore-file-so-the-VCS-does-not-track-the-folder Message-ID: <482B0B4F.5090500@sil.org> Please find attached a patch against git://git.fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts.git Cheers, -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0005-Add-ignore-file-so-the-VCS-does-not-track-the-folder.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 597 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Wed May 14 15:55:40 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:55:40 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Adjust-path-for-various-Makefile-targets-subfolders Message-ID: <482B0B7C.7060104@sil.org> Please find attached a patch against git://git.fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts.git Cheers, -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0006-Adjust-path-for-various-Makefile-targets-subfolders.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 3634 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Wed May 14 15:56:18 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:56:18 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Fix-versionning-mismatch-in-the-binary-font-metadata Message-ID: <482B0BA2.5080802@sil.org> Please find attached a patch against git://git.fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts.git Cheers, -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0007-Fix-versionning-mismatch-in-the-binary-font-metadata.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 18405 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Wed May 14 15:57:15 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:57:15 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Add-some-description-and-extra-lines-to-the-build-ta Message-ID: <482B0BDB.9080603@sil.org> Please find attached a patch against git://git.fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts.git Cheers, -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0008-Add-some-description-and-extra-lines-to-the-build-ta.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 975 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Wed May 14 15:57:52 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:57:52 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Reword-and-restructure-maintainers-recommendations Message-ID: <482B0C00.9060203@sil.org> Please find attached a patch against git://git.fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts.git Cheers, -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0009-Reword-and-restructure-maintainers-recommendations.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 1738 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From nicolas_spalinger at sil.org Wed May 14 15:58:21 2008 From: nicolas_spalinger at sil.org (Nicolas Spalinger) Date: Wed, 14 May 2008 17:58:21 +0200 Subject: [PATCH] Some-rewording-of-the-readme-file Message-ID: <482B0C1D.2050808@sil.org> Please find attached a patch against git://git.fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts.git Cheers, -- Nicolas Spalinger http://scripts.sil.org http://pkg-fonts.alioth.debian.org/ https://launchpad.net/people/fonts -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: 0010-Some-rewording-of-the-readme-file.patch Type: text/x-diff Size: 2090 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 252 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From fangqq at gmail.com Thu May 15 04:15:31 2008 From: fangqq at gmail.com (Qianqian Fang) Date: Thu, 15 May 2008 00:15:31 -0400 Subject: GNU Unifont update Message-ID: <482BB8E3.9060402@gmail.com> I think this will probably be interesting to the people in this list. With the blessing from Roman Czyborra, the former maintainer of GNU Unifont, Paul Hardy, a volunteer developer from CA, is now officially maintaining this widely used dual-width bitmap font. In the past couple months, Paul devoted tremendous of efforts toward the goal of complete BMP coverage of Unifont. In the meantime, we had extensive collaboration and ported all our latest creation of Hanzi glyphs, including the Unicode 5.1 additions, from WenQuanYi's fonts to GNU Unifont. Paul told me that he is very close to make a release, perhaps a few thousands glyphs away from a complete BMP font. His website and the latest fonts can be found from here: http://unifoundry.com/unifont.html It would be nice to see this extensively updated GNU Unifont pushed through all branches for Fedora. I will keep you posted or send Paul directly here to announce his release. Qianqian From cchance at redhat.com Fri May 16 02:04:00 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:04:00 +1000 Subject: [PATCH] Add-more-information-about-the-upstream-designer Message-ID: <482CEB90.8070102@redhat.com> Applied to git. From cchance at redhat.com Fri May 16 02:18:15 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:18:15 +1000 Subject: [PATCH] Minor-typo-and-layout-fixes Message-ID: <482CEEE7.90709@redhat.com> Applied to git. From cchance at redhat.com Fri May 16 02:28:01 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 12:28:01 +1000 Subject: [PATCH] Adjust-fontforge-path-with-env-as-a-source-build Message-ID: <482CF131.1070508@redhat.com> Applied to git. From cchance at redhat.com Fri May 16 07:13:07 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 17:13:07 +1000 Subject: Original TTF files had been added to git. Message-ID: <482D3403.9030605@redhat.com> Hi, The last version of original TTF files (1.03) had been added to archive/ttf_1_03_orig directory for conversion correctness comparison testing. Best Regards, Caius. -- CAIUS CHANCE | CCHANCE AT REDHAT DOT COM X8116 | SW ENG | ENG-I18N | RED HAT APAC APAC DOT REDHAT DOT COM SLASH DISCLAIMER From jorge.fabregas at gmail.com Fri May 16 11:59:55 2008 From: jorge.fabregas at gmail.com (Jorge =?iso-8859-1?q?F=E1bregas?=) Date: Fri, 16 May 2008 07:59:55 -0400 Subject: Why generic names like "Sans" & "Serif"? Message-ID: <200805160759.55474.jorge.fabregas@gmail.com> Hello everyone, I've been using Linux for a couple of years but it hasn't been until recently that I've been paying attention to the font ecosystem so please bare with me :) I'm wondering why on KDE & Gnome (and on apps like Firefox) whenever there's a widget to choose fonts there is always these generic names: Sans & Serif. With this I don't know which sans-serif font I'm using...or which serif font I'm using. For example, when I go to the Firefox preferences...for sans-serif I have "sans-serif" and I'm like "Ok....but WHICH ONE? Is it Liberation Sans? Dejavu Sans?". This is the confusion. I'm guessing now: is it like this so you can define system-wide (at fontconfig level) the typeface you want for sans-serif family? and the serif family? So, for example, imagine I want to use in all system-apps the "Liberation Sans" font for all sans-serif requests...I'll then create a rule on my ~/.fonts.conf for that and I wouldn't need to go to each app (or desktop environment) to specify that I want "Liberation Sans" for sans-serif? I just need to make sure that I have "Sans" in all my preferences and I can double-check that by "fc-match Sans" right? Please help me understand this :) Thanks in advance, Jorge From dave at lab6.com Sat May 17 13:08:57 2008 From: dave at lab6.com (Dave Crossland) Date: Sat, 17 May 2008 14:08:57 +0100 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <48239502.2020104@redhat.com> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> <48239502.2020104@redhat.com> Message-ID: <2285a9d20805170608r498f4d4ft921fde97bbb05261@mail.gmail.com> 2008/5/9 Caius Carlos Chance : > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >> >> You're welcome to use this list as long as you want. It's not as if it's >> high traffic and everyone on it should be interested in Liberation >> progress anyway. > > I have emailed to admin of this mailing list server for a new mailing list, > but anyways we could still discuss at here if most of us preferred. I don't > even sure if they will follow up my request. :) > I think the community is so small that having another list would be disruptive. > BTW, I have created a channel #liberation-fonts in freenode as the official > IRC FYI. I do agree we could share any current IRC channels with debian font > packagers and other font projects too. I'm not on IRC much, but I think ##fonts is quiet like this list so no need to split things up. -- Regards, Dave I support www.gnuherds.org - democratic free software jobs From hun at n-dimensional.de Sat May 17 22:54:49 2008 From: hun at n-dimensional.de (Hans Ulrich Niedermann) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 00:54:49 +0200 Subject: fonts spec template scriptlets and fontconfig dependencies/conflicts Message-ID: <482F6239.1080200@n-dimensional.de> Hi, I have just noticed two potential problems in the fonts spec template. Citing http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/FontsSpecTemplate: > Conflicts: fontconfig > This directive will ensure concurrent fontconfig updating if > your ruleset uses some new syntax fontconfig versions shipped > in previous Fedora releases do not understand. > Do not use a versioned Requires, as this will force fontconfig > installation unconditionally. > Resources like fonts must not force the installation of a > particular handler. The template's %post and %postun scriptlets run fc-cache from the fontconfig package. Potential problem #1: Does "Conflicts: fontconfig From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun May 18 08:58:20 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 10:58:20 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Why generic names like "Sans" & "Serif"? In-Reply-To: <200805160759.55474.jorge.fabregas@gmail.com> References: <200805160759.55474.jorge.fabregas@gmail.com> Message-ID: <46085.81.64.151.204.1211101100.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Hi "Sans", "Serif" (and "Monospace", and a few others) are synthetic fonts composed from the fonts installed on system using the rules defined on system and user-level fontconfig configuration. They're not a simple alias, they can be a patchwork of fonts, and the composition of the patchwork for the same rules depends on the actual font files present on disk. Application developers like to use them, because their presence is guaranteed no matter what, so they don't have to guess what fonts the user chose to install. As long as there is one or several sans-serif scripts on-disk "Sans" will work. The small subset of fontconfig rules we use is documented there http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Fonts/Packaging/Fontconfig for more info, read the existing fontconfig rules, upstream's documentation (/usr/share/doc/fontconfig-2.5.0/fontconfig-user.txt, man fonts-conf) and ask more precise questions there or on upstream's mailing list. Fontconfig is very smart but its documentation is a tad lacking. -- Nicolas Mailhot From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun May 18 09:32:13 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 11:32:13 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <482A3623.6050004@redhat.com> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> <482A3623.6050004@redhat.com> Message-ID: <50609.81.64.151.204.1211103133.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Mer 14 mai 2008 02:45, Jens Petersen a ?crit : >> You're welcome to use this list as long as you want. It's not as if >> it's >> high traffic and everyone on it should be interested in Liberation >> progress anyway. >> >> In fact your posting there made me wonder if we shouldn't repurpose >> this >> list in a Lohit+Liberation+Fonts SIG one. Certainly sharing an IRC >> channel with debian font packagers and other font projects didn't >> hurt >> us at all. > > I agree let's use this list and ##fonts for discussion on Liberation > fonts for now. We actually have an old list for Lohit. I suppose > another way would be to subscribe this list to lohit-devel-list and a > possible liberation-fonts-list, but that may be overkill? I've looked at the old lohit-devel list and it's really low traffic, with Rahul Bhalerao accounting for more than 3/4th of the messages. So I guess it's up to Rahul to decide if moving to a common font list is worth it for lohit. Personally I feel a list with almost no messages is not inviting to third parties, so regrouping makes sense. If someone complains there's too much traffic there (we're far from it) I can always ask to create a fedora-fonts-announce list for Caius and Rahul to announce new releases. -- Nicolas Mailhot From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun May 18 10:21:54 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:21:54 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Why generic names like "Sans" & "Serif"? In-Reply-To: <46085.81.64.151.204.1211101100.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <200805160759.55474.jorge.fabregas@gmail.com> <46085.81.64.151.204.1211101100.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <50181.81.64.151.204.1211106114.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> See also http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Fonts/QA#identify-font -- Nicolas Mailhot From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun May 18 10:49:07 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 12:49:07 +0200 (CEST) Subject: fonts spec template scriptlets and fontconfig dependencies/conflicts In-Reply-To: <482F6239.1080200@n-dimensional.de> References: <482F6239.1080200@n-dimensional.de> Message-ID: <49190.81.64.151.204.1211107747.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Hi, Fontconfig will regenerate its caches at install and update time. It has to because its cache format changes (thus the old cache files may not be in the right format) and it can be installed on a system with pre-existing fonts (thus they may not have any associated cache before). If there is a hole in this re-generation step it needs to be fixed in the fontconfig package. I'll assume it works for now. Also it does not matter if any fontconfig-oriented content like config or cache files is left on-disk if there is not fontconfig to misinterpret it (and the scriptlets protect against no fc-cache available to use) Thus the only question to ask oneself when considering Conflicts: fontconfig References: <482BB8E3.9060402@gmail.com> Message-ID: <57687.81.64.151.204.1211110834.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Jeu 15 mai 2008 06:15, Qianqian Fang a ?crit : Hi, > I think this will probably be interesting to the people in this list. > > With the blessing from Roman Czyborra, the former maintainer of > GNU Unifont, Paul Hardy, a volunteer developer from CA, is now > officially maintaining this widely used dual-width bitmap font. ... > http://unifoundry.com/unifont.html > > It would be nice to see this extensively updated GNU Unifont > pushed through all branches for Fedora. I will keep you posted > or send Paul directly here to announce his release. Does this mean the WQY fonts are deprecated now and should be replaced with GNU unifont ? If that's the case you need to start a rename procedure and modify the comps files of branches unifont will be pushed to. If that's not the case, and WQY and GNU Unifont fonts will exist in parallel from now on, we need to find a packager for GNU unifont. I'd say the current WQY packager is best placed to take unifont up :p Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot From jorge.fabregas at gmail.com Sun May 18 14:22:22 2008 From: jorge.fabregas at gmail.com (Jorge =?utf-8?q?F=C3=A1bregas?=) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 10:22:22 -0400 Subject: Why generic names like "Sans" & "Serif"? In-Reply-To: <46085.81.64.151.204.1211101100.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <200805160759.55474.jorge.fabregas@gmail.com> <46085.81.64.151.204.1211101100.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <200805181022.22438.jorge.fabregas@gmail.com> On Sunday 18 May 2008 04:58:20 am Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > They're not a simple alias, they can be a patchwork of fonts, and the > composition of the patchwork for the same rules depends on the actual > font files present on disk. Thanks Nicolas for the help and links. One last question related to this... I asked this question on the fedora-list a couple of months ago but there wasn't a straight answer (I guess it's not possible) but I ask it here to see if any of you know a way. Is there a way to know the final rendered font when viewing a page on Firefox? I installed the "Font Finder" extension and basically I'll highlight some text and it will give me the requested font for that section. Something like: verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif Can I assume that the final rendered font (in Firefox) is the same I'll get when I do: fc-match verdana,arial,helvetica,sans-serif ??? It seems to be that way (having "sans-serif" for sans-serif on my Firefox preferences...) but if I specify a particular typeface for "sans-serif" in Firefox...it will not evaluate 'verdana, arial & helvetica"and it will jump straight to the specific font I specified in "sans-serif". Thanks, Jorge From fangqq at gmail.com Sun May 18 14:35:23 2008 From: fangqq at gmail.com (Qianqian Fang) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 10:35:23 -0400 Subject: GNU Unifont update In-Reply-To: <57687.81.64.151.204.1211110834.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <482BB8E3.9060402@gmail.com> <57687.81.64.151.204.1211110834.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <48303EAB.4030702@gmail.com> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > Does this mean the WQY fonts are deprecated now and should be replaced > with GNU unifont ? If that's the case you need to start a rename > procedure and modify the comps files of branches unifont will be > pushed to. > > If that's not the case, and WQY and GNU Unifont fonts will exist in > parallel from now on, we need to find a packager for GNU unifont. I'd > say the current WQY packager is best placed to take unifont up :p > For now, maybe keeping both packages in parallel is the best. The Latin part of GNU Unifont and WQY's Unibit have different styles. Unibit uses "Fixed" as the Latin glyphs, combined with the CJK characters, it gives a classical look. For example: http://wenq.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/fedora_unibit.png http://wenq.org/gallery/albums/userpics/10002/fedora_unibit_smth_full.png This combination is still preferred by some Chinese users. The maintaining expense for both packages is not that much though. I would be glad to maintain GNU Unifont, or show Paul how to do that if he wants. The spec files for both packages can be almost identical. Unfortunately Freetype2 does not support HBF (ftp://ftp.cuhk.hk/.1/chinese/ccic/software/info/HBF-1.1/Format.html ) otherwise, we can share common data blocks as separate files, and make one dependent to the other. Qianqian > Regards, > > From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Sun May 18 15:00:26 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Sun, 18 May 2008 17:00:26 +0200 (CEST) Subject: GNU Unifont update In-Reply-To: <48303EAB.4030702@gmail.com> References: <482BB8E3.9060402@gmail.com> <57687.81.64.151.204.1211110834.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <48303EAB.4030702@gmail.com> Message-ID: <45738.81.64.151.204.1211122826.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le Dim 18 mai 2008 16:35, Qianqian Fang a ?crit : > For now, maybe keeping both packages in parallel is the best. ? > The maintaining expense for both packages is not that much though. > I would be glad to maintain GNU Unifont, or show Paul how to do that > if he wants. The spec files for both packages can be almost identical. That would probably best as I've still not found a motherlode of new font packagers. Don't hesitate to ask on the list if you have any problem! Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Mon May 19 21:45:45 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Mon, 19 May 2008 23:45:45 +0200 (CEST) Subject: Start of Fedora 10 packaging cycle Message-ID: <35193.81.64.151.204.1211233545.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Hi all, To start the Fedora 10 development cycle, the following packages have been upgraded in rawhide : ? xgridfit was bumped to 1.6 ? fontforge was bumped to 20080429 to support latest upstream sfd format changes (kuddos to nirik) ? dejavu was bumped to 2.25 and rebuilt with new fontforge ? eddrip was bumped to 20080515 and rebuilt with new fontforge and new xgridfit ? charis was updated to 4.104 while I were at it I expect the font building tools to continue evolving in fedora-devel till freeze time. We'll then want every font package that uses them to have been rebuilt with the frozen version before release. Packagers please coordinate with your upstream as needed. If there are enough packagers interested a combined fontforge+font packages update can be done in Fedora 9 before. But that requires agreeing on a fontforge versions and rebuilding all the depending font packages in one go. We don't want a release to have a font package the release fontforge can not build. If all goes well liberation will join the built-from-source fonts this cycle. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot From petersen at redhat.com Tue May 20 09:13:37 2008 From: petersen at redhat.com (Jens Petersen) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 17:13:37 +0800 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <50609.81.64.151.204.1211103133.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> <482A3623.6050004@redhat.com> <50609.81.64.151.204.1211103133.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <48329641.2020608@redhat.com> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > I've looked at the old lohit-devel list and it's really low traffic, > with Rahul Bhalerao accounting for more than 3/4th of the messages. So > I guess it's up to Rahul to decide if moving to a common font list is > worth it for lohit. Right > Personally I feel a list with almost no messages is not inviting to > third parties, so regrouping makes sense. If someone complains there's > too much traffic there (we're far from it) I can always ask to create > a fedora-fonts-announce list for Caius and Rahul to announce new > releases. I guess you're right, since we stopped "spamming" this list with bugzilla mail it is low traffic, so maybe it is ok for non-fedora people to subscribe to. My initial concern was if non-Fedora people would be put off from subscribing to a Fedora specific fonts list. Jens From dave at lab6.com Tue May 20 11:28:44 2008 From: dave at lab6.com (Dave Crossland) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 12:28:44 +0100 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <48329641.2020608@redhat.com> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> <482A3623.6050004@redhat.com> <50609.81.64.151.204.1211103133.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <48329641.2020608@redhat.com> Message-ID: <2285a9d20805200428j440c9f51ta08e3073de2b5694@mail.gmail.com> 2008/5/20 Jens Petersen : > > My initial concern was if non-Fedora people would be put off from > subscribing to a Fedora specific fonts list. As someone very new to the Fedora community, I think a Fedora-specific general-purpose-fonts list is much more enticing than a Fedora-specific font-specific list :-) -- Regards, Dave I support www.gnuherds.org - democratic free software jobs From cchance at redhat.com Wed May 21 01:24:08 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Wed, 21 May 2008 11:24:08 +1000 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. In-Reply-To: <2285a9d20805170608r498f4d4ft921fde97bbb05261@mail.gmail.com> References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> <48239502.2020104@redhat.com> <2285a9d20805170608r498f4d4ft921fde97bbb05261@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <483379B8.8000302@redhat.com> Hi Dave, Alright. Thanks a lot for your info. Anyways, no mailing list admin was processing my request so no mailing list was ever created. Best Regards, Caius. Dave Crossland ??: > 2008/5/9 Caius Carlos Chance : > >> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: >> >>> You're welcome to use this list as long as you want. It's not as if it's >>> high traffic and everyone on it should be interested in Liberation >>> progress anyway. >>> >> I have emailed to admin of this mailing list server for a new mailing list, >> but anyways we could still discuss at here if most of us preferred. I don't >> even sure if they will follow up my request. :) >> > > >> I think the community is so small that having another list would be disruptive. >> BTW, I have created a channel #liberation-fonts in freenode as the official >> IRC FYI. I do agree we could share any current IRC channels with debian font >> packagers and other font projects too. >> > > I'm not on IRC much, but I think ##fonts is quiet like this list so no > need to split things up. > > From dirtyepic at gentoo.org Wed May 21 04:20:04 2008 From: dirtyepic at gentoo.org (Ryan Hill) Date: Tue, 20 May 2008 22:20:04 -0600 Subject: Updates of liberation-fonts. References: <482000BD.7040709@redhat.com> <1210100667.29476.2.camel@rousalka.okg> <4820F29D.9040502@redhat.com> <8ebc61110805071048o2447cac6hed5a34414788ac2f@mail.gmail.com> <48223E08.1040801@redhat.com> <1210239886.31424.3.camel@rousalka.okg> <482A3623.6050004@redhat.com> <50609.81.64.151.204.1211103133.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <48329641.2020608@redhat.com> Message-ID: <20080520222004.53b57554@halo.dirtyepic.sk.ca> On Tue, 20 May 2008 17:13:37 +0800 Jens Petersen wrote: > I guess you're right, since we stopped "spamming" this list with > bugzilla mail it is low traffic, so maybe it is ok for non-fedora > people to subscribe to. My initial concern was if non-Fedora people > would be put off from subscribing to a Fedora specific fonts list. > > Jens I've found it, along with the freedesktop list, to be quite helpful. ;) -- fonts, gcc-porting, by design, by neglect mips, treecleaner, for a fact or just for effect wxwidgets @ gentoo EFFD 380E 047A 4B51 D2BD C64F 8AA8 8346 F9A4 0662 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cchance at redhat.com Mon May 26 01:24:11 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 11:24:11 +1000 Subject: [PATCH] We-need-versioned-tarballs Message-ID: <483A113B.9010701@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Patched. -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg6EToACgkQRBdiLCX19gK2TACgq8lD9XVJ2pKjviEkoBMdUXth XzoAn2mR1KOUN1MmORN947/FYNZCYwWJ =e4Ht -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: cchance.vcf Type: text/x-vcard Size: 360 bytes Desc: not available URL: From cchance at redhat.com Mon May 26 02:58:35 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 12:58:35 +1000 Subject: [PATCH] Add-ignore-file-so-the-VCS-does-not-track-the-folder Message-ID: <483A275B.8060904@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 patched - -- Caius Carlos Chance Software Engineer Engineering (Internationalization) EM: cchance AT redhat DOT com PH: +61 7 3514-8116 Level 1 193 North Quay Brisbane QLD 4000 Australia Red Hat Asia-Pacific | apac.redhat.com/disclaimer -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg6J1sACgkQRBdiLCX19gKeiwCgnfk6f6MZEftfi/+1D7v4BDgh LJIAnRlbX7gEdHOU7uQqRhuafOs/BU4f =uge7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cchance at redhat.com Mon May 26 03:02:54 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 13:02:54 +1000 Subject: [PATCH] Adjust-path-for-various-Makefile-targets-subfolders Message-ID: <483A285E.6070901@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 patched - -- Caius Carlos Chance Software Engineer Engineering (Internationalization) EM: cchance AT redhat DOT com PH: +61 7 3514-8116 Level 1 193 North Quay Brisbane QLD 4000 Australia Red Hat Asia-Pacific | apac.redhat.com/disclaimer -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg6KF4ACgkQRBdiLCX19gJfMQCgufSKGNgRZxxMptP0fROBRG7q FDoAoKePqfg7ahjpAcyxdaAnfiVPeSa7 =sR7M -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cchance at redhat.com Mon May 26 03:38:48 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 13:38:48 +1000 Subject: [PATCH] Add-some-description-and-extra-lines-to-the-build-ta Message-ID: <483A30C8.3060703@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 patched - -- Caius Carlos Chance < cchance AT redhat DOT com > Red Hat APAC | http://apac.redhat.com/disclaimer/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg6MMgACgkQRBdiLCX19gIK9QCdEwQwir/Hh3sbRKajIGl97WvX g3EAoKHut68ya4eSsI8ZGXi+uLd2oqfa =vx34 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cchance at redhat.com Mon May 26 03:39:32 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 13:39:32 +1000 Subject: [PATCH] Reword-and-restructure-maintainers-recommendations Message-ID: <483A30F4.3020606@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 patched - -- Caius Carlos Chance < cchance AT redhat DOT com > Red Hat APAC | http://apac.redhat.com/disclaimer/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg6MPQACgkQRBdiLCX19gI/HACfeIQBwS+kH6n1iNPNqS0Yc163 duYAn1j9vumqIdd+cJzbWzfT1Ex8CNCg =Z1ce -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From cchance at redhat.com Mon May 26 03:46:38 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Mon, 26 May 2008 13:46:38 +1000 Subject: [PATCH] Some-rewording-of-the-readme-file Message-ID: <483A329E.1000000@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 patched - -- Caius Carlos Chance < cchance AT redhat DOT com > Red Hat APAC | http://apac.redhat.com/disclaimer/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg6Mp4ACgkQRBdiLCX19gLD6QCfa5dLDhOVbQh9FuAQNSSN0JGO z/0An00UItD1K6SYzADf0ijiUDEefIRL =VUj0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From martin.sourada at gmail.com Wed May 28 09:35:04 2008 From: martin.sourada at gmail.com (Martin Sourada) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 11:35:04 +0200 Subject: WebKit font problems Message-ID: <1211967304.3058.15.camel@pc-notebook> Hi, I though this bug [1] I've just filled against WebKit might be of some interest to you. In short, WebKit shows blank space instead of some characters, I noticed Japanese, Chinese and Korean to be the ones affected. I am not sure if it's WebKit or Fedora-way-of-font-handling issue, so I though I might let you know as well... (I hope I am not just causing noise :-D) Thanks, Martin References: [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=448693 -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From fangqq at gmail.com Wed May 28 14:01:41 2008 From: fangqq at gmail.com (Qianqian Fang) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 10:01:41 -0400 Subject: WebKit font problems In-Reply-To: <1211967304.3058.15.camel@pc-notebook> References: <1211967304.3058.15.camel@pc-notebook> Message-ID: <483D65C5.9080902@gmail.com> can you install wqy-zenhei-fonts or ttf-arphic-uming and tell us if the problem goes away. Qianqian Martin Sourada wrote: > Hi, > > I though this bug [1] I've just filled against WebKit might be of some > interest to you. In short, WebKit shows blank space instead of some > characters, I noticed Japanese, Chinese and Korean to be the ones > affected. > > I am not sure if it's WebKit or Fedora-way-of-font-handling issue, so I > though I might let you know as well... (I hope I am not just causing > noise :-D) > > Thanks, > Martin > > References: > [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=448693 > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Fedora-fonts-list mailing list > Fedora-fonts-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-fonts-list > From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Wed May 28 15:08:02 2008 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 17:08:02 +0200 (CEST) Subject: WebKit font problems In-Reply-To: <1211967304.3058.15.camel@pc-notebook> References: <1211967304.3058.15.camel@pc-notebook> Message-ID: <38707.192.54.193.59.1211987282.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> It'd be interesting to know what lib webkit uses for text layouting. Its root are in KDE and KDE tends to use QT's less than ideal layouting engine. OTOH GTK apps tend to use pango. If gtk-webkit uses somethingin the middle it's not surprising it behaves stangely. -- Nicolas Mailhot From martin.sourada at gmail.com Wed May 28 18:22:00 2008 From: martin.sourada at gmail.com (Martin Sourada) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 20:22:00 +0200 Subject: WebKit font problems In-Reply-To: <38707.192.54.193.59.1211987282.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <1211967304.3058.15.camel@pc-notebook> <38707.192.54.193.59.1211987282.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <1211998920.3133.15.camel@pc-notebook> I didn't noticed you sent it to me directly (and CCed the fonts list), so resending to fonts-list... On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 17:08 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > It'd be interesting to know what lib webkit uses for text layouting. > Its root are in KDE and KDE tends to use QT's less than ideal > layouting engine. OTOH GTK apps tend to use pango. If gtk-webkit uses > somethingin the middle it's not surprising it behaves stangely. > AFAIK, WebKit-gtk uses pango as well... $ rpm -q --requires WebKit-gtk | grep pango libpango-1.0.so.0 libpangocairo-1.0.so.0 Martin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From martin.sourada at gmail.com Wed May 28 18:23:34 2008 From: martin.sourada at gmail.com (Martin Sourada) Date: Wed, 28 May 2008 20:23:34 +0200 Subject: WebKit font problems In-Reply-To: <483D65C5.9080902@gmail.com> References: <1211967304.3058.15.camel@pc-notebook> <483D65C5.9080902@gmail.com> Message-ID: <1211999014.3133.17.camel@pc-notebook> I didn't noticed you've sent it to me (and CCed the font-list), so resending my answer to font-list now... On Wed, 2008-05-28 at 10:01 -0400, Qianqian Fang wrote: > can you install wqy-zenhei-fonts or ttf-arphic-uming and tell us > if the problem goes away. > > Qianqian > Installing wqy-zenhei-fonts does not solve the issue, ttf-arphic-uming does not seem to be in Fedora :-/ Martin PS: I've already subscribed ;-) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part URL: From cchance at redhat.com Fri May 30 07:41:31 2008 From: cchance at redhat.com (Caius Carlos Chance) Date: Fri, 30 May 2008 17:41:31 +1000 Subject: Liberation Fonts 1.04 beta is released. Message-ID: <483FAFAB.50907@redhat.com> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, The Liberation Fonts 1.04 beta is released. There are changes since version 1.03 from original manufacturer as the followings: https://fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts/browser/archive/ttf_1_04b_gwilliams_20080525/README?format=raw The fonts is hosted on fedorahosted.org: https://fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts/ The latest release of the fonts is available at: https://fedorahosted.org/liberation-fonts/browser/dist/liberation-fonts-1.04.beta.tar.gz?format=raw Please feel free for providing feedbacks. Thank you very much for everyone in fedora-fonts-list and font-devel. :) Best Regards, Caius - -- Caius Carlos Chance < cchance AT redhat DOT com > Red Hat APAC | http://apac.redhat.com/disclaimer/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAkg/r6sACgkQHyseJJBl4GzHRQCbBe/Ch5xzdKnB6yuSU7B7iG8+ AxEAn10cb6JmUGzCsAjCFiM9uIqMbPbM =R1gF -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----