From abelcheung at gmail.com Wed Dec 21 00:35:06 2005 From: abelcheung at gmail.com (Abel Cheung) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 08:35:06 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Formation of new translation team - Chinese (Hong Kong) Message-ID: Hi, I'd like to form a new translation team, as title. What procedure should I follow? I do already have an a/c in elvis.redhat.com, but haven't been actively using it so far. Hong Kong has been using Taiwan translation for long time, but since the cultural and language difference is becoming large, so there is need to seperately handle them now, though the difference can perhaps be easily managed by a simple script. But even after adding Hong Kong translations (language code is zh_HK), most software should have configure.in/ac updated, or to be precise, updating ALL_LINGUAS variable in configure.in/ac. Is there any need to contact corresponding software maintainers as well? Best, Abel PS Leon Ho, are you here? If there is need then we can perhaps discuss all these things... -- Abel Cheung (GPG Key: 0xC67186FF) Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1 41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF -------------------------------------------------------------------- * GNOME Hong Kong - http://www.gnome.hk/ * Opensource Application Knowledge Assoc. - http://oaka.org/ From llch at redhat.com Thu Dec 22 05:02:51 2005 From: llch at redhat.com (Leon Ho) Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:02:51 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Formation of new translation team - Chinese (Hong Kong) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <200512221502.51959.llch@redhat.com> Hi Abel, I am here :) Good to see you again. For translation wise, it is pretty easy. In Fedora Translation Project, all you have to do is request what locale you want to add in fedora-trans-list at redhat.com, and the Translation Project Leader will help you to add those po files. Or if you have i18n.redhat.com account already, you can just create a fresh po files, and cvs add zh_HK.po. Then, the files will be automagically fetched by the status page [1]. How many Hong Kong contributors you have invited at the moment? When your community is mature and is over five active members, we can also help to create a mailing list like fedora-trans-hk. In regards to your question on modifying configure*/makefiles etc. 'Usually' (of course there are no policy on this) when the maintainer sees there is a new, fully translated po, he/she will add the appropriate files updated to install that. If you of course want to speed things up, or the maintainer missed that, please feel free to notify them. That is translation part. Before you want to get started, let's think about on the i18n development part - I would like to pick some of the issues to you for discussion: - How to organize language naming in applications such as anaconda. As you know currently zh_TW are regarded as Chinese (Traditional). - Translation fallback. If there are no translation in zh_HK, how to fall back to other locale? Using special case like LANGUAGE=zh_HK:zh_TW:zh is the last thing we want to do in Fedora. Regards, Leon [1]: http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status On Wednesday 21 December 2005 10:35, Abel Cheung wrote: > Hi, > > I'd like to form a new translation team, as title. What procedure > should I follow? I do already have an a/c in elvis.redhat.com, but > haven't been actively using it so far. > > Hong Kong has been using Taiwan translation for long time, but > since the cultural and language difference is becoming large, so > there is need to seperately handle them now, though the difference > can perhaps be easily managed by a simple script. > > But even after adding Hong Kong translations (language code is > zh_HK), most software should have configure.in/ac updated, or > to be precise, updating ALL_LINGUAS variable in configure.in/ac. > Is there any need to contact corresponding software maintainers > as well? > > Best, > Abel > > PS Leon Ho, are you here? If there is need then we can perhaps > discuss all these things... > -- > Abel Cheung (GPG Key: 0xC67186FF) > Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1 41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > * GNOME Hong Kong - http://www.gnome.hk/ > * Opensource Application Knowledge Assoc. - http://oaka.org/ > > -- > Fedora-i18n-list mailing list > Fedora-i18n-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list From abelcheung at gmail.com Thu Dec 22 17:05:47 2005 From: abelcheung at gmail.com (Abel Cheung) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 01:05:47 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Formation of new translation team - Chinese (Hong Kong) In-Reply-To: <200512221502.51959.llch@redhat.com> References: <200512221502.51959.llch@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 12/22/05, Leon Ho wrote: > Or if you have i18n.redhat.com account already, you can just create a fresh po > files, and cvs add zh_HK.po. > Then, the files will be automagically fetched by the status page [1]. Thanks, I already have an a/c. > How many Hong Kong contributors you have invited at the moment? When your > community is mature and is over five active members, we can also help to > create a mailing list like fedora-trans-hk. Thanks for the offer, though I have mixed feeling about this. There is an existing mailing list for gnome in hong kong, and I'd want to reuse it for the purpose of centralized admin (handling multiple lists is a real headache). However, RH software maintainers may not know this and reflexively send news/queries to fedora-trans-* lists. But anyway, creating it first is better, let me see what should be done next. The reason is that translation community for chinese is very weak right now. I have no problem finding 5 members, but 5 ACTIVE members is different thing -- there are less than 5 persons working actively on gnome + kde summed up together, and that already includes people from Taiwan and Hong Kong. I'm aiming at improving the situation, but that needs a little time. > That is translation part. Before you want to get started, let's think about on > the i18n development part - I would like to pick some of the issues to you > for discussion: Yes, these are another set of questions that I want to discuss as well. > - How to organize language naming in applications such as anaconda. As you > know currently zh_TW are regarded as Chinese (Traditional). The best thing to do, is to use district name. (yes, GEOGRAPHICAL district name, not country or iso names, you know another riot from either taiwan or mainland china would happen otherwise) That looks like: zh_CN Chinese (China) zh_HK Chinese (Hong Kong) zh_SG Chinese (Singapore) zh_TW Chinese (Taiwan) > - Translation fallback. If there are no translation in zh_HK, how to fall > back to other locale? Using special case like LANGUAGE=zh_HK:zh_TW:zh is the > last thing we want to do in Fedora. Hm, FWIW, I never comprehend why $LANGUAGE is a bad thing, although a few applications don't use $LANGUAGE (like poedit), and it's a GNU extension. Put aside technical ideals, the reality is that, to make zh_HK fully available for _ALL_ software packages (not only RH specific software), it takes at least months, if not years. So during this transition period, solely depending on $LC_MESSAGES would cause translation not shown at all, thus discouraging translators to continue their work. That's even worse than adding special case support in language switcher. So setting $LANGUAGE is out of practical need, not because it's technically worse/better. Within say, 1 yr or 1.5 yr, this $LANGUAGE can be dropped if it's still undesirable. Greetings, Abel > > Regards, > Leon > > [1]: http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status > > On Wednesday 21 December 2005 10:35, Abel Cheung wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'd like to form a new translation team, as title. What procedure > > should I follow? I do already have an a/c in elvis.redhat.com, but > > haven't been actively using it so far. > > > > Hong Kong has been using Taiwan translation for long time, but > > since the cultural and language difference is becoming large, so > > there is need to seperately handle them now, though the difference > > can perhaps be easily managed by a simple script. > > > > But even after adding Hong Kong translations (language code is > > zh_HK), most software should have configure.in/ac updated, or > > to be precise, updating ALL_LINGUAS variable in configure.in/ac. > > Is there any need to contact corresponding software maintainers > > as well? > > > > Best, > > Abel > > > > PS Leon Ho, are you here? If there is need then we can perhaps > > discuss all these things... > > -- > > Abel Cheung (GPG Key: 0xC67186FF) > > Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1 41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > * GNOME Hong Kong - http://www.gnome.hk/ > > * Opensource Application Knowledge Assoc. - http://oaka.org/ > > > > -- > > Fedora-i18n-list mailing list > > Fedora-i18n-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list > -- Abel Cheung (GPG Key: 0xC67186FF) Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1 41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF -------------------------------------------------------------------- * GNOME Hong Kong - http://www.gnome.hk/ * Opensource Application Knowledge Assoc. - http://oaka.org/ From sarahs at redhat.com Fri Dec 23 06:51:26 2005 From: sarahs at redhat.com (Sarah Wang) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 16:51:26 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Formation of new translation team - Chinese (Hong Kong) In-Reply-To: References: <200512221502.51959.llch@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1135320686.4101.155.camel@localhost.localdomain> Abel, Currently there are two Chinese locales exist in Fedora Translation Project: Simplified Chinese - zh_CN Traditional Chinese - zh_TW I understand Hong Kong uses Traditional Chinese - my question is how different it is in terms of computer/linux terminologies, comparing with other regions using Traditional Chinese (such as Taiwan)? If it's not so different, would you consider working with people in fedora-trans-zh_tw list? Sarah From abelcheung at gmail.com Fri Dec 23 10:12:14 2005 From: abelcheung at gmail.com (Abel Cheung) Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 18:12:14 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Formation of new translation team - Chinese (Hong Kong) In-Reply-To: <1135320686.4101.155.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <200512221502.51959.llch@redhat.com> <1135320686.4101.155.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On 12/23/05, Sarah Wang wrote: > Currently there are two Chinese locales exist in Fedora Translation > Project: > > Simplified Chinese - zh_CN > Traditional Chinese - zh_TW > > I understand Hong Kong uses Traditional Chinese - my question is how > different it is in terms of computer/linux terminologies, comparing with > other regions using Traditional Chinese (such as Taiwan)? If it's not so > different, would you consider working with people in fedora-trans-zh_tw > list? Hong Kong people have always been using Taiwan translations, and work together, despite the fact that some usage of words doesn't really fit Hong Kong users. But recent development changed the situation -- there are wide spread efforts of using semi-political propaganda spreading words, which doesn't really fit Hong Kong people's style, so there is need to make sure Hong Kong users have more natural and comfortable UI now. But indeed, I'll make sure translations won't differ too much by coorperating with people in fedora-trans-zh_tw. The difference of word usage is not huge (as between simplified/traditional chinese), so everything is under control. Abel > > Sarah > > -- > Fedora-i18n-list mailing list > Fedora-i18n-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list > -- Abel Cheung (GPG Key: 0xC67186FF) Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1 41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF -------------------------------------------------------------------- * GNOME Hong Kong - http://www.gnome.hk/ * Opensource Application Knowledge Assoc. - http://oaka.org/ From petersen at redhat.com Wed Dec 28 08:35:08 2005 From: petersen at redhat.com (Jens Petersen) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 17:35:08 +0900 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Results of Fedora community SCIM survey In-Reply-To: <43730B9D.7090200@redhat.com> References: <43730B9D.7090200@redhat.com> Message-ID: <43B24E3C.70702@redhat.com> Jens Petersen wrote: > The Fedora I18N Team invites you kindly to participate in a survey > to provide feedback on the SCIM platform for Asian language input. Thank you to all those who participated in the SCIM survey conducted online last month. There was a total of 120 responses (half of them were for Simplified Chinese and a fifth for Japanese). Overall the feedback by users on SCIM was quite positive: https://www.keysurvey.com/report/80474/-1/87ca Some of the suggestions and comments made include: - having an option to hide the scim IME panel - each IME should provide help on keybindings in the help dialog - better IME icons - better translations for some languages - adding support for Greek letters to scim-input-pad - easier way to input signs and symbols from scim-anthy and other IMEs - Korean users find native input somewhat slow - Korean and Indian users would prefer a different hotkey toggle to Ctrl-Space The results are also available in csv format from: http://people.redhat.com/petersen/scim/ScimSurveyResults.csv and translations of the comments in responses into English: http://people.redhat.com/petersen/scim/ScimSurveyTranslation.csv They can be read for example by oocalc. We hope you find them useful and help the SCIM developers and community to further improve SCIM. With seasonal greetings, Jens Petersen on behalf of the I18n and L10n Teams From james.su at gmail.com Wed Dec 28 09:05:25 2005 From: james.su at gmail.com (Zhe Su) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 17:05:25 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Results of Fedora community SCIM survey In-Reply-To: <43B24E3C.70702@redhat.com> References: <43730B9D.7090200@redhat.com> <43B24E3C.70702@redhat.com> Message-ID: <278a3d0512280105s1964f2e4m45fcbeb2bc54b78a@mail.gmail.com> Hi, That's really great! Thank you very much. If you are interested in helping improve scim, please join us. Any kind of help are welcome, especially for document enhancement and translation. Regards James Su On 12/28/05, Jens Petersen wrote: > Jens Petersen wrote: > > The Fedora I18N Team invites you kindly to participate in a survey > > to provide feedback on the SCIM platform for Asian language input. > > Thank you to all those who participated in the SCIM survey conducted > online last month. There was a total of 120 responses > (half of them were for Simplified Chinese and a fifth for Japanese). > Overall the feedback by users on SCIM was quite positive: > > https://www.keysurvey.com/report/80474/-1/87ca > > Some of the suggestions and comments made include: > > - having an option to hide the scim IME panel > - each IME should provide help on keybindings in the help dialog > - better IME icons > - better translations for some languages > - adding support for Greek letters to scim-input-pad > - easier way to input signs and symbols from scim-anthy and other IMEs > - Korean users find native input somewhat slow > - Korean and Indian users would prefer a different hotkey toggle to Ctrl-Space > > The results are also available in csv format from: > > http://people.redhat.com/petersen/scim/ScimSurveyResults.csv > > and translations of the comments in responses into English: > > http://people.redhat.com/petersen/scim/ScimSurveyTranslation.csv > > They can be read for example by oocalc. We hope you find them useful > and help the SCIM developers and community to further improve SCIM. > > With seasonal greetings, > > Jens Petersen on behalf of the I18n and L10n Teams > > -- > Fedora-i18n-list mailing list > Fedora-i18n-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list > From sampaths at in.ibm.com Wed Dec 28 17:58:34 2005 From: sampaths at in.ibm.com (Sai Sampath) Date: Wed, 28 Dec 2005 23:28:34 +0530 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Sai Sampath/India/IBM is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 12/27/2005 and will not return until 01/02/2006. I will respond to your mail, when I am back to office. If you require immediate attention please mail to rkhandek at in.ibm.com