From nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net Thu Mar 1 07:03:08 2007 From: nicolas.mailhot at laposte.net (Nicolas Mailhot) Date: Thu, 01 Mar 2007 08:03:08 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Re: naming scheme for fonts packages? In-Reply-To: <45E61058.1020801@redhat.com> References: <45E54A39.7030104@redhat.com> <63347.192.54.193.51.1172657012.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45E61058.1020801@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1172732588.15284.12.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Le jeudi 01 mars 2007 ? 09:29 +1000, Jens Petersen a ?crit : > Hi, > > Thanks for the followup. No charge ;) > Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > > To be honest I'm not too fond of foo-font packages. > > Sorry, did you mean "fonts-*"? Right, sorry > I agree with you for fonts for Western languages for which it is > possible to have reasonable coverage with limited resources. A general font like DejaVu does lao, arabic (better support is waiting on better opentype support pango & qt-side) aboriginal canadian syllabics, armenian, greek, cyrillic so I don't think the "western only" qualifier applies. You just need to get people to work together, doing a whole unicode block is no harder within an unicode font than within a specific font (in fact it's easier since you don't have to redo latin like all the asian fonts do now) > > IMHO (which if worth what it's worth) you're not packaging generic fonts > > for tibetan but a specific font project, and it deserves name recognition > > just like any other upstream. So upstreamname-fonts seems more respectful > > for me. Also have you though of what will happen should someone want to > > package another tibetan font in a few months ? > > Well in the review we are actually now discussing putting two GPL > Tibetan fonts in the same package if it is going by the generic language > name. That's the logical next step. It feels like putting kmail and evolution in the same "MUA" package though. Can't you get by with a "Tibetan support" comps group instead ? I will work with font packages crossing langage boundaries, not force users to install every single font for one langage (and in CJK countries that weights quite a lot), allow you to follow two separate upstream release schedules, etc. Regards, -- Nicolas Mailhot -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 197 bytes Desc: Ceci est une partie de message num?riquement sign?e URL: From abelcheung at gmail.com Thu Mar 1 08:48:20 2007 From: abelcheung at gmail.com (Abel Cheung) Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 16:48:20 +0800 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Re: naming scheme for fonts packages? In-Reply-To: <45E61058.1020801@redhat.com> References: <45E54A39.7030104@redhat.com> <63347.192.54.193.51.1172657012.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45E61058.1020801@redhat.com> Message-ID: On 3/1/07, Jens Petersen wrote: > > Well the prospect of good free fonts with really wide unicode glyph > coverage is not something that is going to happen anytime soon I'm > afraid. Having lived 12 years in Japan my perspective is probably a bit > different from many Fedora developers. We really really need those > fonts-* packages for Asian languages and scripts. :) And as a > data-point the big desktop OSs also ship lots of separate fonts for them > AFAIK. Almost an offtopic sidenote: when it was decided in Ubuntu that python development packages should be bundled into CD instead of scim as well as some fonts for Asian languages, some helpers immediately considered devoting less time on Ubuntu. Abel > > > To be honest I'm not too fond of foo-font packages. > > Sorry, did you mean "fonts-*"? > > > They're a necessary 8-bit legacy stopgap, but I'd rather have vibrant font projects competing > > on quality and international coverage. You don't get that if you bundle > > different upstreams in neutraly named packages. (the fact that FC was more > > fonts-foo and FE foo-fonts reflects a rather utilitarian view of fonts > > RH-side, and the huge weight of the fossilized fonts sourced from > > xfree86/xorg) > > I agree with you for fonts for Western languages for which it is > possible to have reasonable coverage with limited resources. > > > IMHO (which if worth what it's worth) you're not packaging generic fonts > > for tibetan but a specific font project, and it deserves name recognition > > just like any other upstream. So upstreamname-fonts seems more respectful > > for me. Also have you though of what will happen should someone want to > > package another tibetan font in a few months ? > > Well in the review we are actually now discussing putting two GPL > Tibetan fonts in the same package if it is going by the generic language > name. > > Jens > > -- > Fedora-i18n-list mailing list > Fedora-i18n-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list > -- Abel Cheung (GPG Key: 0xC67186FF) Key fingerprint: 671C C7AE EFB5 110C D6D1 41EE 4152 E1F1 C671 86FF -------------------------------------------------------------------- * GNOME Hong Kong - http://www.gnome.hk/ * Opensource Application Knowledge Assoc. - http://oaka.org/ * My own cave: http://me.abelcheung.org/ From petersen at redhat.com Fri Mar 2 06:58:22 2007 From: petersen at redhat.com (Jens Petersen) Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 16:58:22 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Re: naming scheme for fonts packages? In-Reply-To: <1172732588.15284.12.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <45E54A39.7030104@redhat.com> <63347.192.54.193.51.1172657012.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> <45E61058.1020801@redhat.com> <1172732588.15284.12.camel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45E7CB0E.3030403@redhat.com> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > A general font like DejaVu does lao, arabic (better support is waiting > on better opentype support pango & qt-side) aboriginal canadian > syllabics, armenian, greek, cyrillic so I don't think the "western only" > qualifier applies. Ok I don't know how many glyphs dejavu currently supports. But there is no coverage for CJK for example and CJK fonts are huge. > You just need to get people to work together, doing a > whole unicode block is no harder within an unicode font than within a > specific font (in fact it's easier since you don't have to redo latin > like all the asian fonts do now) True. I am all for it in principle. Not sure if everyone wants to have truetype fonts each over 30MB in size installed by default. It would certainly stop me having to worry about how we can have good international font coverage installed by default in Fedora. :) > That's the logical next step. It feels like putting kmail and evolution > in the same "MUA" package though. Can't you get by with a "Tibetan > support" comps group instead ? It will work with font packages crossing > langage boundaries, not force users to install every single font for one > langage (and in CJK countries that weights quite a lot), allow you to > follow two separate upstream release schedules, etc. Those are good points. Jens From josep.puigdemont at gmail.com Sun Mar 4 11:10:41 2007 From: josep.puigdemont at gmail.com (Josep Puigdemont) Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 12:10:41 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] smolt Message-ID: <1173006641.3973.15.camel@iepetus> Hi, During the installation of F7t2 I realized that the smolt screen in firstboot was not translated, even if firstboot seems to be 100% translated for my language. I looked at firstboot modules, and it seems the smolt part belongs to the "smolt-firstboot" rpm, unfortunately this module is not included in the "translate" cvs module that translators use for translating fedora. Could someone please add it to "translate", or make it part of firstboot? Thanks! /Josep From petersen at redhat.com Mon Mar 5 06:33:09 2007 From: petersen at redhat.com (Jens Petersen) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 16:33:09 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] smolt In-Reply-To: <1173006641.3973.15.camel@iepetus> References: <1173006641.3973.15.camel@iepetus> Message-ID: <45EBB9A5.4050606@redhat.com> Josep Puigdemont wrote: > During the installation of F7t2 I realized that the smolt screen in > firstboot was not translated, even if firstboot seems to be 100% > translated for my language. > > I looked at firstboot modules, and it seems the smolt part belongs to > the "smolt-firstboot" rpm, unfortunately this module is not included in > the "translate" cvs module that translators use for translating fedora. Could you please make the request to fedora-trans-list or file a bug in bugzilla? Thanks, Jens From josep.puigdemont at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 07:51:05 2007 From: josep.puigdemont at gmail.com (Josep Puigdemont) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2007 08:51:05 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] smolt In-Reply-To: <45EBB9A5.4050606@redhat.com> References: <1173006641.3973.15.camel@iepetus> <45EBB9A5.4050606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <1173081065.3684.1.camel@iepetus> El dl 05 de 03 del 2007 a les 16:33 +1000, en/na Jens Petersen va escriure: > Josep Puigdemont wrote: > > During the installation of F7t2 I realized that the smolt screen in > > firstboot was not translated, even if firstboot seems to be 100% > > translated for my language. > > > > I looked at firstboot modules, and it seems the smolt part belongs to > > the "smolt-firstboot" rpm, unfortunately this module is not included in > > the "translate" cvs module that translators use for translating fedora. > > Could you please make the request to fedora-trans-list or file a bug in > bugzilla? Hum, it was actually meant to be sent to fedora-trans-list, my bad, sorry. Reported in #230970. Thanks, /Josep From giomac at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 06:33:55 2007 From: giomac at gmail.com (George Machitidze) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:33:55 +0400 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Adding Georgian Support in Fedora Message-ID: <519a81d30703042233l6fb9c075w5dd31f8eeb596e17@mail.gmail.com> Hi all, I want to add Georgian support in lang-table. My friend has finished console font, but we dont know how to include it yet (kbd package). We have about 15-20% of quality non-fuzzy translations that is enough for users and we want to continue with it. Fedora 7RC's will be best testing platform for us, because at this moment we can, but we dont have enough time and machines to make distros with anaconda, it's better to use this freetime for translations. Please tell us how/where to add bitmap console font and how to get rw cvs access on anaconda module if it's required. Thank you! -- Best Regards, George Machitidze Georgian Internet Alliance http://www.gia.ge From giomac at gmail.com Mon Mar 5 06:41:59 2007 From: giomac at gmail.com (George Machitidze) Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:41:59 +0400 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] smolt In-Reply-To: <45EBB9A5.4050606@redhat.com> References: <1173006641.3973.15.camel@iepetus> <45EBB9A5.4050606@redhat.com> Message-ID: <519a81d30703042241g41229e12y22e904f5a149cca3@mail.gmail.com> Hi Josep, rpm -ql firstboot|grep locale rpm -ql smolt-firstboot|grep locale What's your language? On 3/5/07, Jens Petersen wrote: > Josep Puigdemont wrote: > > During the installation of F7t2 I realized that the smolt screen in > > firstboot was not translated, even if firstboot seems to be 100% > > translated for my language. > > > > I looked at firstboot modules, and it seems the smolt part belongs to > > the "smolt-firstboot" rpm, unfortunately this module is not included in > > the "translate" cvs module that translators use for translating fedora. > > Could you please make the request to fedora-trans-list or file a bug in > bugzilla? > > Thanks, Jens > > -- > Fedora-i18n-list mailing list > Fedora-i18n-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list > -- Best Regards, George Machitidze Georgian Internet Alliance http://www.gia.ge From josep.puigdemont at gmail.com Tue Mar 6 08:37:45 2007 From: josep.puigdemont at gmail.com (Josep Puigdemont) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2007 09:37:45 +0100 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] smolt In-Reply-To: <519a81d30703042241g41229e12y22e904f5a149cca3@mail.gmail.com> References: <1173006641.3973.15.camel@iepetus> <45EBB9A5.4050606@redhat.com> <519a81d30703042241g41229e12y22e904f5a149cca3@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1173170265.3504.36.camel@iepetus> Hi George, El dl 05 de 03 del 2007 a les 10:41 +0400, en/na George Machitidze va escriure: > Hi Josep, > > rpm -ql firstboot|grep locale > rpm -ql smolt-firstboot|grep locale > What's your language? It's Catalan. firstboot is 100% translated for Catalan, the problem is with smolt, and particularly the smolt module in firstboot, which is in another repository and it is not yet translated. It seems, though, that the problem is going to be solved soon, allowing translators access to fedora infrastructure's repo. /Josep > > On 3/5/07, Jens Petersen wrote: > > Josep Puigdemont wrote: > > > During the installation of F7t2 I realized that the smolt screen in > > > firstboot was not translated, even if firstboot seems to be 100% > > > translated for my language. > > > > > > I looked at firstboot modules, and it seems the smolt part belongs to > > > the "smolt-firstboot" rpm, unfortunately this module is not included in > > > the "translate" cvs module that translators use for translating fedora. > > > > Could you please make the request to fedora-trans-list or file a bug in > > bugzilla? > > > > Thanks, Jens > > > > -- > > Fedora-i18n-list mailing list > > Fedora-i18n-list at redhat.com > > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list > > > > From dimitris at glezos.com Thu Mar 8 02:26:13 2007 From: dimitris at glezos.com (Dimitris Glezos) Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2007 02:26:13 +0000 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Adding Georgian Support in Fedora In-Reply-To: <519a81d30703042233l6fb9c075w5dd31f8eeb596e17@mail.gmail.com> References: <519a81d30703042233l6fb9c075w5dd31f8eeb596e17@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <45EF7445.8070800@glezos.com> Hi George. First of all, welcome! O/H George Machitidze ??????: > I want to add Georgian support in lang-table. My friend has finished > console font, but we dont know how to include it yet (kbd package). I see that Georgian already exists on the i18n table [1], so I guess you mean the language menu in Anaconda. Best thing (I guess) would be to open a bug report on Anaconda for this. -d [1]:http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status?page=status&locale=ka&branch=HEAD&essential=0 -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) -- From giomac at gmail.com Thu Mar 8 06:33:51 2007 From: giomac at gmail.com (George Machitidze) Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 10:33:51 +0400 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Adding Georgian Support in Fedora In-Reply-To: <45EF7445.8070800@glezos.com> References: <519a81d30703042233l6fb9c075w5dd31f8eeb596e17@mail.gmail.com> <45EF7445.8070800@glezos.com> Message-ID: <519a81d30703072233u5cf0fe6j50d17b28726dd3bd@mail.gmail.com> Thank you Dimitris, As i have informed last day 90% of anaconda must be translated, i have all needed information to include fonts in X and kbd too. On 3/8/07, Dimitris Glezos wrote: > > Hi George. > > First of all, welcome! > > O/H George Machitidze ??????: > > I want to add Georgian support in lang-table. My friend has finished > > console font, but we dont know how to include it yet (kbd package). > > I see that Georgian already exists on the i18n table [1], so I guess you mean > the language menu in Anaconda. Best thing (I guess) would be to open a bug > report on Anaconda for this. > > -d > > [1]:http://i18n.redhat.com/cgi-bin/i18n-status?page=status&locale=ka&branch=HEAD&essential=0 > > > > -- > Dimitris Glezos > Jabber ID: glezos at jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B > http://dimitris.glezos.com/ > > "He who gives up functionality for ease of use > loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) > -- > > -- > Fedora-i18n-list mailing list > Fedora-i18n-list at redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-i18n-list > -- Best Regards, George Machitidze Georgian Internet Alliance http://www.gia.ge From petersen at redhat.com Fri Mar 9 00:20:44 2007 From: petersen at redhat.com (Jens Petersen) Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2007 10:20:44 +1000 Subject: [Fedora-i18n-list] Re: naming scheme for fonts packages? In-Reply-To: <63347.192.54.193.51.1172657012.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> References: <45E54A39.7030104@redhat.com> <63347.192.54.193.51.1172657012.squirrel@rousalka.dyndns.org> Message-ID: <45F0A85C.5000504@redhat.com> Nicolas Mailhot wrote: > IMHO (which if worth what it's worth) you're not packaging generic fonts > for tibetan but a specific font project, and it deserves name recognition > just like any other upstream. So upstreamname-fonts seems more respectful > for me. Then a followup question: if there is only 1 (truetype) font in a font package should the package name be "upstreamname-fonts" or "upstreamname-font"? :) The latter seems semantically more logical, the former more syntactically consistent. It is easy to search for /most/ fonts packages now with "rpm -qa '*fonts*'", but on the other hand it is a bit strange to call something *-fonts if it only contains a single font? So which gives? :) Any comments on this? Thanks, Jens ps I guess another aspect is one can never be sure that a project with one font now, in the future will not have more than one, or vice versa even. (Debian uses package names like "ttf-name" for truetype fonts.)