Fedora, KDE and Printing Package Policy Stinks

[Keven Ring]

Keith wrote:

>On Wed, 2004-04-21 at 06:18, Keven Ring wrote:
>  
>
>>Keith wrote: 
>>    
>>
>>>>>I have a binary print server that requires LPRng, however
>>>>>the folks at KDE and/or Fedora Developing have made it so
>>>>>that CUPS is required to be installed to install KDE base.
>>>>>This policy is short sighted and this forcing the adoption
>>>>>of a print server system is anti-Open Source and choice.
>>>>>I hope that this policy by Fedora Development and/or KDE
>>>>>will stop now.
>>>>>The Fedora development team do not have to support LPRng
>>>>>but the way that they have forced CUPS down the throats of
>>>>>Fedora users is absolutely wrong.
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>I have taken this off-list....
>>
>>Are you suggesting that the Fedora team does not support *any* printing 
>>package?  I mean, if they don't have to support LPRng, and they are bad 
>>for forcing CUPS down your throat, then, it sounds like they are damned 
>>if they do, damned if they don't.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>No, Requiring CUPS to install KDE is not the correct procedure.
>
Packages have dependancies.  For some dependancies, there may be 
multiple possible solutions.  The Fedora Team picks the solution that 
offers the widest range of flexibility.  Get over it.  Read that again.  
GET OVER IT.

>>So, to answer your specific question, "Why does the KDE RPMs require 
>>CUPS".  Because KDE has items which require print capabilities, and the 
>>Fedora team decided to use CUPS for their SYSTEM WIDE printing 
>>mechanism.  If you don't agree with their choice of CUPS, talk to them 
>>on the -devel list, not on a PRODUCTION RELEASE list.
>>
>>    
>>
>
> Requiring CUPS to install KDE isn't the proper way to distribute open
>source. Mandrake, SuSE and many other distributions don't force CUPS
>down the throats of the end user to install KDE.
>  
>
Great for them.  You are free to use their obviously better solutions.

>>I'm sure KDE can use either CUPS or LPRng, or, if you really want, a 
>>hammer and a chisel.  What you are *whining* about is that you were not 
>>presented with an option "Shall I install CUPS, the most widely used 
>>UNIX Printing Solution, or LPRng to support your arcane binary print 
>>server that is not RFC 1179 compliant"
>>    
>>
>
> Whining is good for development and the most usability for the end
>user. If people aren't allowed to complain about the product then 
>the developers and end user have no communication and the product sucks.
>  
>
No, Whining is not good for development.  Presenting a clear, concise, 
well-thought out argument to the developers is the way to achieve the 
most usability.  Providing patches is even better.  For instance, 
perhaps *YOU* could investigate why the binary print server ONLY works 
with LPRng [after all, you are the one with the binary print server].  
*THEN*, you could go back to the CUPS folks, and say "LPRng provides 
function X that allows me to do Y.  I do not see any way of 
accomplishing the same thing in CUPS.  Could you help me?"

Your argument of "My binary print server will only run with LPRng.  Why 
does the Fedora KDE require CUPS, and not LPRng.  I want it to support 
LPRng, and only LPRng.  LPRng is the right choice for the thousands of 
users of Fedora because it is right for ME." is selfish, and not 
necessarily in the best interest of the community.  Whining about it is 
likely to get people to ignore you faster.

>> during the install.  Of course, 
>>if they did that, the installer would be 1000x more complicated than it 
>>currently is, and no one would use it.
>>    
>>
>
> KDE does not require CUPS, it is Red Hat & Fedora development team
>that  require CUPS to install KDE. 
>  
>
Correct. KDE requires printing capabilities [as I mentioned before].  
The Fedora release team decided to use CUPS for printing [as I mentioned 
before].  An, as I mentioned before, there is nothing stopping you from 
taking the Fedora KDE source code, and compile it yourself, linking to 
LPRng.

There are several solutions provided in this email.  Why don't you move 
your discussion over to the -devel list, if you seek to change it, 
because it isn't going to be changed in a Fedora Core Production Release 
Mailing List.

-- 
Keven Ring               | "Oh no,  Not Again..."
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