Langa bashing (was Re: Problems getting Linux into homes)

[Wade Chandler]

Eric Diamond wrote:

> Tuesday, April 20, 2004 7:28 PM bbales
> 
>>The point I am trying to make is if I fire up my windows98 box
>>and use internet explorer to go to a site with sound, I can hear 
>>the sound.  I've installed Linux on probably 40 or 50 boxes and 
>>I can't get sound on my own box.  I correspond with folks who 
>>can't even tell me what browser they are using, but they can get 
>>sound with it.
>>
>>Linux is great, but it ain't easy.   Yet.
> 
> 
> And the point I was trying to make, along with having a little fun, and
> this is especially poignant if Mr. Langa has been around for as long as
> he has, is that I'm tired of hering IT people complain about something
> being difficult to configure. If this stuff were simple, and any joe off
> the street could make it all work, then most of us wouldn't be employed.
> And anyone who not only expects that everything should work correctly
> after a vanilla install but gets angry at the fact that it doesn't,
> shouldn't be employed in the first place (at least not in this field).
> 
> If Mr. Langa had stopped at his first distro and spent any time at all
> researching the driver situation for his card, then he probably could
> have gotten it working before he could have finished his second install
> and definitely would have by the time he could have finished his third.
> By that time he would have found either an appropriate driver or
> conclusive evidence that one didn't exist.
> 
> For that matter, why in the world would anyone undertake to install an
> OS on ANY machine without researching the hardware first and collecting
> all the drivers and software necessary to achieve the desired
> configuration before he started the install. In my mind, that in itself
> is invalidates both the mans test and his abilities.
> 
> 
> Eric Diamond
> eDiamond Networking & Security
> 303-246-9555
> eric at ediamond.net
>  
> 
> 
Just to add to this one.  I have had HP and and other manufacturer 
hardware I have had to get the drivers from a web site for for Windows. 
  XP being one of the OS.

I'll also note: The sound card issue in Linux is a normal desktop user 
show stopper.  It however isn't always the manufacturers fault.  The 
disperate sound systems are at fault much of the time.  There are times 
the sound card will have the driver loaded correctly yet sound isn't 
working because of a conflict between sound systems and applications. 
Not many users want to have to configure one application to run this way 
or another one to run this way.  I want to listem to my CD while I play 
a game with sound affects at the same time, or I want to listem to my CD 
while I write software and test it....software which outputs sound 
effects that is.

I think ALSA will address this if the community will rally around it. 
There are lessons to be learned from standardizing and simplicity.  This 
is something all distros will have to work on together.  It may hurt one 
projects feelings or it may not, but the fact is it will be better for 
everyone to start adding these types of things.

I think issues like this need to become part of the LSB.  I think the 
LSB should start including the sound system at a minimum.  Then everyone 
can put their energy into a base standard.  Software can still provide 
choice, but lets standardize and make some things a little more complete 
such as issues relating to certain hardware related programs.  It is 
just too complex to try an support multiple software interfaces in an 
application.

Look at XMMS for instance.  Sometimes you upgrade XMMS and the sound 
breaks due to some change in the sound plugin you are using, or your 
comfiguration gets changed and you have to reconfigure it.  If there 
were a standard sound system...no big deal.  The only thing the user 
would have to know is where is the volume set.

Anyways, my point...sometimes standardizing is the best way to deal with 
an issue.  I know everyone likes choice, but not everything needs to be 
so wide open.  If everyone were to focus on ALSA then at least this 
would take one notch out of the complexity belt, and we'd all be better 
off for it.  Get the application developers focusing on one standard 
sound api and they'll have more time to work on the main application 
instead of being side tracked by many different sound system's issues 
(that is a lot to maintain).

Wade