Taming the mailing lists?

[Clifford Snow]

On Thu, 2004-04-29 at 19:26, Tom 'Needs A Hat' Mitchell wrote:
<snipped>
> 
> 1) Add a mailing list tag to the subject [FC], because the majority of
> new posters have no clue about threaded mail readers, procmail filters
> and large volume mail management.  The first day after subscribing to
> a high volume mailing list like this the rules of order get lost in a
> total disorganized blur.  This little change will help new arrivals
> and if short will pose no pain on others.

Experienced linux users have little problem filtering email.  It would
be interesting to learn which mail client new users use, evolution?  If
it is evolution, then it can easily sort on the list without having to
resort to adding a mail list tag.  I would vote leave the subject alone.
> 
> 2) Shorten the quoted name of the list in the reply to and from
> as much as possible. "Fedora discussion <fedora-list at redhat.com>"
> 
> Inspect how adding the mailing list to an address book works on
> multiple mail readers.    What is with this lonnnnnnggggg name.
> 
>   Reply-To: For users of Fedora Core releases <fedora-list at redhat.com> 
> 
> Is just too long and today adding the list to an address book is now
> partly crippled.  No wonder folks hijack threads.

When I first started out, I hijacked threads not realizing that just
changing the subject did not change the thread.  It's not intuitive to
the user.  For me it had nothing to do with the name.  It just seemed
easier to reply to a message, change the subject and voila, I had a new
thread.  It's either a user education issue, i.e. better upfront notice,
or a UI problem with my mail client.  
> 
> 3) Begin a welcome to the list message it with a reference URL that
> people can bookmark.  Cover threads, top posting, netiquette, FAQ,
> archive searching.  A single URL is easy to save. A URL can stay
> current.  An introductory file while a necessary  first step is often
> not saved.  It would be useful to send this message then 12 hours
> later activate the list so the "welcome" is not lost in the flood.

Good suggestion but I would send the message out immeadiately.  Get the
person attention right from the start.  Then monthly included it with
the subscription reminder email. 
> 
> 5) The single most common new user problem is how to stay current and
> setup yum/up2date to use a mirror.  Please design a way to fix the
> default yum and up2date actions to help people configure their config
> files better!     Too many of us have embellished config files but how
> do we get the basic vanilla mirror stuff in place.

I think you are addressing a quality issue with the distribution.  FC1
definitely had a problem with the up2date configuration.  I've read that
it is being address in FC2.  The FAQ is the place were the short comings
of the distribution can be addressed.  FAQs for MP3, Real Networks,
flash, java, etc.
> 
> 6) Adopt TEN FAQ sites.  Frequently asked questions frequently trigger
> rants, RTFM, and other non productive threads that are less than
> helpful to most beginners.  
> 
> Community sponsored FAQ's are one way that the user community 
> to assist and help.  I picked ten but a good short list one 
> that has a long list is necessary.
> 
> The bulk of the new arrivals have no clue what a FAQ is or the magic
> words to toss at a search engine to get good results.  Ponder the
> first two things that Google finds for Yarrow ...
> 
>  Schneier.com: Yarrow
>    ... Yarrow. A secure pseudorandom number generator ... About
>  botanical.com - 
>    A Modern Herbal | Yarrow - Herb Profile and ...  Common
>    Yarrow. Common Yarrow (Achillea millefolium LINN.).
> We know why this is silly but a beginner does not.

Not sure what point you are trying to make.
> 
> 7) Consider renaming the list "FCB Fedora Core Beginner".  This can
> set expectations for readers and posters.  There may be some demand
> for a "FCW Fedora Core Wizard" list as a result but the wizard know
> who is who and help each other.
If the list was targeted to newbies, who would help them?  
> 
> 8) Consider threads that have more than 5 postings as one of: a) bug
> report or b) rants.  The rants are obvious - hit 'd'.  The others are
> commonly problems looking for solutions.  Example#1: mp3 players. The
> number of mp3 postings is massive.  Perhaps the mp3 dummy plugin for
> xmms and other players could pop up a help window that gave some
> information?  Example#2: up2date gpg download error could pop open a
> list of possible causes and solutions.  The current error is
> equivalent to "BZZZZ error, bad boy go to the back of the line".  It
> could give the top three: a)download failed, try again, b) load
> missing redhat keys thus, c) non Redhat package ignore this one time
> only or load their key.
> 
Good suggestions to improve users experience. 

> Bottom line is that FC has to support itself out of the box better.

Agreed.

> 
> 9) It is time to change the Fedora.Redhat.com web pages.  Sadly I use
> Google to find stuff because the structure is dated.  Today they are
> more of an engineers project page than end user pages.  There are user
> interfaces that understand user 'flow' and then there are feature
> interfaces that enumerate all the work to do for the manager and the
> engineer.  Engineering managers tend to build the second users need
> 'flow'.  Some engineers just get it right because they have a vision.
> Others are managing their todo list and details.  At this point in
> time the web design needs to shift from engineer to user.

Agreed the Fedora page should have a place to show "engineering" plans
as well as a user section.  Ideally it would include a full FAQ.  Those
FAQ's that conflict with legal issues, such as MP3, should be directed
off site.
> 
> 10) Ponder a way to integrate  man, info and other help systems.
> I have a gazibyte of documents on my box but I have no navigation 
> tools that seem to do what I expect.  I end up starting with
> "locate" then "less" then a browser.  
> 
> Documentation is an anthology and some sane way is needed to build a
> new index and toc as each package is added.  See: /usr/share/doc/ and
> the 732+ piles of good but mostly hidden stuff there.

Agreed.  There probably exists a software package that does what you
want, but I don't know what it is.  Anyone?


Clifford Snow
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/attachments/20040430/c91dac33/attachment-0001.sig>