ATTN SELF-STYLED LIST POLICE (was RE: Mr. Day)
Wolfgang Gill
wolfgang at rpi.net.au
Tue Dec 7 04:03:54 UTC 2004
On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:37:08 -0600, Thomas Cameron wrote
> On Mon, 2004-12-06 at 10:42 -0500, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > On Mon, 6 Dec 2004, Shaffer Paul wrote:
> >
> > > Fedora's supporters (frequent repliers to these posts) rightfully
> > > view the lesser mortals here with skepticism and disdain because
> > > they are who they are and nobody is getting paid. Fair enough.
> >
> > no, not fair. and not accurate. if you go back and read some of
> > those threads again, you'll find that newbies are not chastised simply
> > for being newbies. they're chastised for bad behaviour.
>
> No, they're publicly derided for being innocently ignorant of some
> archaic set of "rules" which are not really rules - just suggested best
> practice. And that's just plain wrong. That is *not* the open
> community behavior I fell in love with when I first started using Linux.
>
> > some examples are (god help me, i'm almost scared to type them in)
> > posting in HTML, and top posting.
>
> I am so freaking sick of this BULLSHIT about posting HTML and top
> posting. It would amuse me if it didn't downright disgust me that
> the ones who scream the loudest about this crap are the ones who in
> the next message will bust on some poor newbie for not using the
> latest version of package X. Guess what - if your MUA doesn't
> handle HTML, then SWITCH FREAKING MUAs!!!! It is the 21st century,
> for Chrissakes! If you *CHOOSE* to use an MUA that doesn't handle
> HTML, I don't wanna hear you bitch about it! It's YOUR choice,
> freaking live with it. Pine works great with HTML, as does Mutt
> with *minimal* fiddling. Oh, and so does Evolution, and Thunderbird,
> and so on. I can't think of ANY modern mail reader that doesn't
> handle HTML. If you *CHOOSE* to be some ascetic Ubergeek monk and
> use a text only MUA that doesn't handle HTML, then you are a dope.
> And if I hear another whine about "I pay for my bandwidth and HTML
> uses more of it" I'm going to puke. If you can't deal with the fact
> that new list members are GOING to make mistakes, then maybe this
> isn't the right list for you. I mean, come ON!!! The WHOLE list
> for the month of November was a whopping 14 megs.
>
> And since about, oh, my SECOND YEAR OF GRAMMAR SCHOOL I've been able
> to read a letter out of order. GET OVER IT, people! Use your freaking
> brain for once instead of going off on some poor newbie who doesn't know
> any better. All you do when you flame some poor neophyte is alienate
> him/her and make the REST OF US look bad. Let me repeat that - when
> you flame someone, they think of "those jerks on the Fedora list,"
> not "that jerk Joe Blow on the Fedora list." Like it or not, you
> represent the Fedora community, and I do not appreciate you
> representing my community like an asshole.
>
> > when newbies do either of these (as
> > they are wont to do, not surprisingly), they are typically (and
> > politely) asked not to do it again. and that's it. they apologize
> > sometimes, they fix their mailers, they change their behaviour, and
> > everyone gets back to work. end of problem.
>
> So what is your excuse then for being such a jerk? There was not
> only nothing polite in your posting, but you were an out and out
> ass. Twice. The saddest thing about your behavior is that you seem
> proud of it! I can't imagine that you would speak to someone like
> that face-to-face. If you would treat a stranger like that face-to-
> face, I feel really sorry for you.
>
> > sadly, there is the occasional (i can't think of any other way to
> > describe them) self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who takes umbrage with
> > these rules of etiquette and initiates his own personal crusade to
> > defend either of the above.
>
> Sadly, there is the occasional self-absorbed, arrogant bozo who
> elects himself "list police" who attempts to make himself look
> somehow better by publicly chewing out newbies, making the whole
> Fedora community look bad.
>
> > with disastrous results, of course,
> > leading to the periodic flame war only because *one* *person* thinks
> > he knows better than everyone who's been a regular for years. go back
> > and check in the archives -- tell me i'm wrong.
>
> You're wrong. I've been in the IT industry for a decade. While I know
> there are many on this list who look at me as still wet behind the
> ears, I've been around for long enough to have seen all this crap
> over and over and over and over and over and over (have I mentioned
> over and over?) on list after list and newsgroup after newsgroup.
>
> When I was younger and less sure of myself, I admit that I tried to play
> the cool "old-timer" and did the list police thing myself. Now that
> I have (I hope) a modicum of maturity and experience, I realize that
> there are so many more important things that top/bottom/HTML posts
> that I just roll on by that crap.
>
> > posters here don't get flamed for being newbies or "lesser mortals".
> > they get flamed because they have no sense of courtesy, etiquette or
> > history.
>
> Bullshit. Posters get flamed here by people who are trying to make
> themselves look like something more than they are. Posters here get
> flamed for innocent ignorance.
>
> If you don't like something that some newbie does, educate him
> instead of publicly humiliating him. If top/HTML posting bugs you
> that much, then hey, the delete key works really well (and you
> should probably switch to decaf). Just don't use it as an excuse to
> try to puff yourself up as some sort of wizened old-timer who speaks
> The Truth.
>
> It's not that hard, people - use the same courtesy here that you
> would in a business meeting. Grow up, be civil. There are enough
> people out there being nasty to each other - we don't need it in here.
>
> If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all.
>
> Thomas
Amen to that - I couldn't of said it better myslf. Now let's get back to Linux
shall we.
Wolf
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