Non FOSS and Fedora

[Rui Miguel Seabra]

On Mon, 2004-01-12 at 17:03, Keith Lofstrom wrote:
> There are some folks here that claim to not like non-FOSS software,
> and admonish others for helping newbies use it.  The examples given
> included Acrobat, Flash, and the Java Runtime Environment.

And nVidia drivers et all.

> Some of us do work in the Real World (tm).  Yes, we have a strong
> preference for FOSS, and will use that to the exclusion of non-FOSS
> whenever possible.  But when a particular FOSS application is not
> available, or is incapable of performing a critical task, then the
> choice is to do nothing, or to perform the task with the best tools
> remaining.

Acrobat is unneeded, and gcj would like the help.
For flash, get rid of Software Patents (will help a lot).

This Real World (tm) is the world of slavery, where you subject yourself
the power of those you think the choice is do nothing about.

Flash is totally unneeded, we have many tools for PDF viewing/generation
and Java is having a brighter life, hopefully sooner than later (FC2
will include java aplications running under gcj, IIRC).

Living with software made by people that respects you might not be so
easy on a superficial analysis, but on the long run it works in your
best interests. Thinking about the long run is thinking in a pragmatic
and reasonable form, while short-term solutions inevitably lead to
bigger problems in the future.

> FOSS zealots can piss and moan, or they can do something positive.
> Rather than complain about the helpful non-FOSS FAQs and guides for
> newbies that others are writing, the zealots can write *better* FAQs
> that explain now to perform those critical tasks with FOSS.

Many FAQs would resume to search in google for very common keywords.

>   And if
> there are critical tasks that cannot yet be performed with FOSS 
> applications, those zealots with programming skills can correct the
> deficiencies of the FOSS apps.  Pretending those deficiencies aren't
> there is stupid, especially when some are so easy to fix.

Nobody pretends deficiencies aren't there, but if people think the
solution is to use non-Free software, then there will be less incentive
for writing or completing Free Software solutions.

> using the tools available to me.  To deny me those tools because of
> some silly claim that this somehow increases freedom is to strain at
> gnats and swallow camels.

Who denies you? Who has the power to deny you?

Are you confusing critic with force?

The difference is:
  One is Free Speech
  The other is actually forcing you to do something.

No one but your boss is actually forcing you to do things like that.

> about them to others.  We really are making rapid progress.  But we
> are NOT THERE YET, and it would be a horrible tactical mistake to
> claim victory and start hunting heretics instead of attracting
> converts.  It is the heretic hunters of the previous generation
> of software designers, with their licenses and their laws, that
> we are fighting now. 

Heresy? I don't see anyone talking about any religion but you.
We ARE THERE for most things one does on a computer.
Believe me when I tell you those doing CAD are a very small minority.

And even for those, there are tools that could use more people using and
improving them, instead of fleeing to proprietary software under the
convenient blanket of the 'NOT THERE YET' excuse.

> Think positive.  Promote and improve FOSS software.  If the competition
> works better, then improve your own efforts, don't attack users for
> making practical accommodations to the real world.  We don't need to
> be perceived as rigid, authoritarian lunatics.  That's the other side.

You're thinking neutral, when it is convenient for yourself, and
positive when it's something it fits you, and negative when you want to
justify your neutrality.

We're there. We're WAY EASIER to use than Windows 3.1 and many non
computer savvy people used it every day, so don't give me bullshit :)

Rui

-- 
+ No matter how much you do, you never do enough -- unknown
+ Whatever you do will be insignificant,
| but it is very important that you do it -- Gandhi
+ So let's do it...?

Please AVOID sending me WORD, EXCEL or POWERPOINT attachments.
See http://www.fsf.org/philosophy/no-word-attachments.html
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: signature.asc
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 189 bytes
Desc: This is a digitally signed message part
URL: <http://listman.redhat.com/archives/fedora-list/attachments/20040112/f1cb6e5d/attachment-0001.sig>