Deploring *nix Philosophy ( Was Re : Splitting archives across floppies )

[Parameshwara Bhat]

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 12:37:46 -0600, Robin Laing 
<Robin.Laing at drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:

> Parameshwara Bhat wrote:
>>
>> Hello Mr. Erik & Mr.Robin,
>>
>> I thank you both for taking the pains to respond in such details. I am 
>> trying to clarify my position ( to myself first and the list ) help 
>> make issues clear.Dear List,please excuse me for the lenght.I can't 
>> help.
>
> We all have to learn sometime.  After using Linux since 1994, I am still 
> learning and loving it more.

Yes, I do love Linux. I thought my questions and criticisma were  
protestations of a genuine lover so that his object of love only shines 
more for him.
>
> I don't think there is a mis-understanding.  The problem isn't the OS 
> figuring out the aspect of your installation as much as confirming to 
> the OS that this is what you want.

That is the point.During installation or immediately after installation 
(first run),just in the manner of kde desktop configuration tool, Linux 
distros can run a script wherein the root can set what default settings - 
security scheme meets his/her needs.And when an user is added,whether the 
same settings should be mapped to the new user or changed should be able 
to be set.Anytime need changes the security scheme should be easily 
re-configurable from a central application.This way-system itself applying 
suitable security scheme I find will be more secure a system than one 
where advised by list or some friend one does a half-informed alterations 
to obtain a functionality.

> But should every account have sound enabled?  Reading and playing CD's 
> is another issue as well.  Do I want my children playing CD on the 
> computer?  Again this is an administration issue.  Default setups can be 
> configured to work across the board.  I haven't played with the settings 
> but I haven't had the need to.  Remember some hardware won't work in 
> Linux and from an article I read this morning, not all hardware will 
> work in Windows.

Yes,I believe computer is a tool, getting more and more cheaper,like 
tv,many other players and other gadgets like fridge, mw ovens. Now each 
has its own safety/security issue.But in a family,they are all accessible 
to different family members (setting different limits is ok,like child 
lock in tv).Computer cannot be on a different plane.This adaptability and 
configurability are more important.It should not require a computer guru. 
Linux is entering new markets in Desktop / home PCs and it should present 
tools so that any educated person ( not a computer professional ) can 
install it,configure it and maintain it for normal everyday uses where a 
Pc is more of a typing / publishing machine and a great multimedia 
entertainer. I would like Linux distros to see the requirement of this 
segment and cater to this and provide good security / reliability in this 
environment. It has far higher abilities which it can keep and augment for 
other segments of users. If this is ensured, hardware makers will come to 
Linux with support, You do not have to go beg.
>
> In the menu under System Tools is Disk Management.  I can mount, unmount 
> and format disks using this tool.  As *nix looks at the device 
> differently, unmounting the device before removal does make more sense.  
> I have wrecked floppies and CD's in Windows by removing them before the 
> FAT was updated and all writing was complete.  Being totally automatic 
> is nice but can cause problems.  This is more than a security issue.  It 
> is a reliability issue.
>
> I have no experience with modems and modern linux.  Last time I setup a 
> modem in Linux was in 1995.

> On the odd occasion I have had issues with Sound and I think alot of 
> that will change with ALSA.  I don't know yet.   For most purposes, 
> sound works great at home for all users.  I didn't have to change 
> anything for this to work.  I think I have had two issues where a 
> program did not exit for another user.  I have had issues with volume 
> being changed but I haven't thought about it.

> Windows is even older and it is now looking at where they went wrong. 
>   Security is a new word at Redmond and this is being forced onto the 
> sofware writers as a fix.  From what I am reading, there are allot of 
> applications and procedures that will change on Windows XP after the 
> installation of SP2.  If this is true, there will be allot of unhappy 
> users.  Many users have followed the adage of install and forget. Even 
> not doing virus updates and package updates.
>
> Try going from Windows 3.1 to Windows XP.  (I have used both on the same 
> day) There are alot of changes.  *nix systems are still similiar to 
> systems that were made 10 years ago.  Many of the commands are still the 
> same though some options have changed.  Why, they work.  In many cases, 
> many old applications can be compiled and still work on a current 
> version.  Now try running Windows old applications on a new version.  
> This is one of the major upgrade costs for Windows, updating 
> applications.
>
> But a driver of a car does need to know how to drive, signal and meet 
> some basic standards test.  I have seen cases of people that don't know 
> enough about cars try putting oil into the car via the dipstick.   There 
> are rules to the road and experience that allows you to drive to work 
> without having an accident.  How many people can go purchase a car and 
> drive it without having taken a driving test?  Would you want those 
> people on the road?  I don't.  I wouldn't let my wife drive until she 
> had her license to drive.  Maybe we should implement licenses to 
> purchase computers and use them. :)
>
> People purchase computers and don't have any knowledge of how they work 
> or how they should be maintained.  They don't know about updates, 
> anti-virus programs etc.  Microsoft EULA are now wanting to do updates 
> to you computer even if you don't know about it.  Is this correct?  Of 
> course, you don't purchase Microsoft Windows, you only license it for 
> usage.
>
> If you don't know enough about your car to do basic maintenance you hire 
> someone else to do it.  Do you do your own oil changes?  How about tire 
> repairs?  Now using this anology, some computer work for some people 
> requires paying someone else to do it.
>
> Windows does have it's issues and many people have to get outside help 
> to get things working.   I have made some good money from this in the 
> past.  I don't now as I don't have the patience to learn the Windows 
> Registry nightmare.
>
> Notice that some auto manufacturers are now looking at personal 
> identification as theft deterent.
>
>>
>> I believe I have been fair ( and forthright ). I have no hesitation in 
>> correcting myself if I am not

Security and safety precautions are fine but as everytool in the modern 
world is getting complex and coplexer, not everybody can learn everything 
and to use a tool,you should not be required to know all its internal 
mechanisms. That's an unfair demand on the user. By your response, I see 
we both diverge here. Security /safety of any tool should be so designed 
as to enable / empower a normal intelligent person in its usage.
>
> We are here to learn and any civil discussion.  Some of the issues that 
> have been in this thread are issues that I have thought about as well.  
> I learn look at other issues due to discussions.  I never looked at the 
> comparison between cars and using computers before reading this post.
>
> I would rather learn how to work within Linux security than deal with 
> all the headaches of having to re-install Windows once a year just to 
> clean up the registry.

I think I am putting quite a good deal in learning. I was only talking 
about the macro configuration which could obviate tinkering with half 
knowledge.

Regards,

P Bhat