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Re: Re: Deploring *nix Philosophy

On Sun, 06 Jun 2004 04:36:52 +1000, Daniel Stonier <snorri_dj operamail com> wrote:

On Sat, 05 Jun 2004 07:33:42 +0530, Parameshwara Bhat <pbhat ongc net> wrote:

Hello Mr. Erik & Mr.Robin,

Your points are valid (except perhaps for the internet connection), the simple, oft used things should be simple to do. However, most of this fedora already does - I find it odd that you are having the problems you do.

I missed most of your earlier notes so I might be a little off
target, but my default user and any new users I add are all given
permission to unmount and mount the cdrom. No problems here. Using automount -
you dont always want to mount a cdrom as a filesystem, so it keeps things
simple and leaves it there as an option I suspect. Automount is much more
useful for things like network shares where you want to slip in and out
unobtrusively without leaving it mounted for extended periods of time
(automount will automatically unmount something if you haven't used it for
<x> period of time).
I am hacking Automount / Autofs taking cue from a guide in web, I am really enjoying it. My blues over using CD / floppy seem to be over. They neither get locked because not unmounting.

Neither is sound I think a problem for 99% of users in general (I've never had an issue with it).

Been a while since I've tried to set up a dial-in modem connection. I'm
not sure how kppp does things, but the service I ran does need you
to start the daemon as root (internet interface being a security thing this
is the responsible option), but once it was started (which could be done
at bootup so you dont need to manually need root to do it all the time),
you could set it so users could open and close the ppp interface at will.

I did, I think have the same fustration trying to use kppp initially. You
might find redhat-config-network (or neat, a sym link to the same thing)
a much easier option. Users can then use neat-control to turn the interface
on and off without needing root password. I initially used this to set
up my cable modem internet interface and then users can turn the interface
on or off with neat-control. Most of the redhat-config- gui's are fairly
sensibly designed for a new user to set up basic devices fairly easily.

Most of these things are fairly simple things to get a handle on by
playing around with and remembering not to stonewall yourself by
refusing to allow yourself to think differently. You also
have to remember redhat's gui's have only recently been attempting to
accommodate the user market, so 10 years experience really only comes
down to two or so years of establishing an interface - so dont be
too critical on them. And also remember they are often just the
packager - most of the programs need be written by volunteers in
the open source community. Documentation within the system could be much
better - but the linux desktop is changing so fast its very difficult
for documentation to keep up. To make up for this you might want to
initially invest in a fedora bible of sorts. I haven't used one of these
for a while, but I found them useful to get started with, although
I did notice the redhat 9 one was fairly shallow and all about
pointing and clicking things rather than explaining concepts a
great deal. If you get to the stage where you want to do anything
fairly complicated though, you'll need to look elsewhere for info.

And then there's the philosophy of the user - should the fedora root user
(administrator) be tolerated to be as computer illiterate as most of the
windows computer world is (is it a bad thing for us to expect that
a fedora root user become a little more computer educated?) Does this
bring the complexity or power of the OS down to the level of a windows
machine along with all its problems? I have no idea :) Though I'm not
sure that bringing Linux down to the level of windows home setup just to appeal to
the masses is such a wonderful situation. I already find myself losing control
in gnome and kde thanks to configuration designs that are there to make the system
'easier' to use (this is not necessarily detrimental though! Alot of
users I think appreciate the controls the desktops take over). Thankfully
there is enough variety in linux to provide alternative desktops
which suit my style.

Just an odd note, I seem to see alot of people jump in and try Fedora because
they're unhappy with windows, but then get frustrated when they find
things dont work as they did in windows. Rather ironic.

No,this one deosn't belong to that. I love my freedom too much.

And, I believe those who have worked their way hard into the heart of Linux might have to reconcile to theidea that Linux should need only a normal intelligent person, not a computer expert, to install, configure and maintain at home for home use . If Linux can focus and target at this segment additional to it's high end uses. it will truly conquer the world.


P Bhat

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