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Re: Fedora Core 2 - review.

Sean Estabrooks wrote:
On Tue, 25 May 2004 09:22:34 -0600
Robin Laing <Robin Laing drdc-rddc gc ca> wrote:

Hi Robin,

Alot of the replys in this thread have already said what I would have in response to your points.

I do use ogg and support free software, even at work. I am glad to see portable ogg players available. The problem is moving the masses to free and open software. I often point out links for open software to windows users to use.

Great.   Then our views aren't that different after all :o)

As stated by others. It doesn't help any free and open software cause if a user cannot go to www.somesite.com and view what is on that site. Nor does is help when a Windows users sends me a file that isn't readable of viewable on Linux. Yes my mother-in-law does require access to mp3's and flash for surfing the web. How many sites use flash home pages?

I'm not sure this is such a clear cut assertion.   There's at least some
reason to believe that a little pain may inspire acceptance of alternatives.
As our numbers grow it would then be harder and harder for websites to convince themselves to use these proprietary protocols. As for mp3's i'm pretty sure there are already viable alternatives today, as you point out.

Sure it's ok to make some concessions in order to attract people and
make it easier to migrate over.   But those should be secondary
activities that don't overshadow the real work. People who support open source and want to get more people excited about it have no reason to be shy. It was voices and actions like theirs that created Linux in the first place. Something it would be nice to hear more proponents of proprietary solutions acknowledge and

The problem here isn't the users as much as the designers. How many sites don't even work in Mozilla due to MS only coding. I have emailed sites that don't work properly and in some cases been told to get IE. :( I just refuse to use those sites. I have and will continue to email sites that are a pain to use/view.

I used to use Lynx for years instead of Netscape (in the 90's) as I didn't have the patience for most sites graphics.

I don't know if RH can be deemed responsible to providing their customers information on why software isn't included in their distribution. In fact as it isn't provided would be a defense. I am not a lawyer but I think I will post this question to my brother-in-law who is becoming a lawyer.

There were comments to this effect about the time of the fedora.us
merger.   At that time they jettisoned packages with inappropriate
licensing which they hosted before the merger.

It is easy to come up with reasons not to provide software. The issue that is raised in the review is how to make Linux useful for the mainstream users. I do feel that the more Linux is used in the home, the more open standards will be implemented. Other distributions provide the software that is in question which is their own problem. All I am saying is give Fedora users a tip on how and where to get the software to make their installation work in this closed standard world.

It seems doubtful that the masses are going to run to Linux tomorrow
even if every proprietary protocol/package was supported.   We have
to keep adding to the core benefit of Linux and grow our community

The problem is that time can work against the adoption of Linux. At this point in industry and commercial operations, there is a gap in what Microsoft if providing. Longhorn is years away and many businesses that signed into the New licensing agreement are now paying the price without updates and something to show for trusting Microsoft to deliver. Now is one time to act.

Microsoft is getting scared and even getting close to stating lies as facts.

It may be easier when Longhorn is released if the hardware resources are so great that most people cannot justify the cost to upgrade. As a friend of mine says. When Linux can support his hardware out of the box and allow him to play his games, he will move. This is a point that must be recognized to get Linux into the homes. Games will sell.

I have a 7 year old that wants to play the games that are Windows only and I have allowed her to purchase one (her money) and I am going to try to get it to work.

Don't kill the fight for free and open software by denying that closed standards have to be supported until the open standards have taken some market share.

I'd turn this around and say that you can't be fighting for free and open software without at least a slight reluctance to use non-free and non-open software.

The last commercial software package that I purchased was a home CAD package for Windows 3.1 which I ran on OS/2. The last Microsoft product that I purchased was a flight simulator for my father as a gift.

I use Linux, Gimp, OpenOffice, Mozilla on a daily basis for work.

Ogg is getting great reviews for quality over all other formats and this will win supporters. DRM is going to be an issue that will have to be dealt with, but that is another headache.

DRM may well drive more people our way if we keep preparing for that day and not throw up our hands and capitulate wholeheartedly to the proprietary forces.


I have supported and used Linux since 1994 (Slackware) and would like to see MS fail but I doubt that will happen in my lifetime. I do take pleasure in how Linux has cut into Microsofts bottom line.

I see the battle to get Linux onto more computers is to offer something that is stabler and allows home users to do all that they want and need to. Something that is hard to attack and make computing easy and enjoyable for the home and business user. I feel that it is better to get people to feel that they want to change than trying to tell them to change. Offer them something that they want at a price they are willing to pay. I have found that it is easier to get people to change one small thing at a time than a wholesale change.

This goes back to the original topic. FC2 isn't ready for the home as it doesn't include what is needed to be acceptable. Of course reading the list shows that it may not be ready for many users (I am waiting for the Nvidia issue to be resolved). When I purchased my new computer I installed FC1 just to get it up and running again. I had plans on installing Gentoo. I haven't taken the time to look at Gentoo as FC1 is working almost perfect.

Linux needs to come up with the killer business application that will save businesses millions and would take Microsoft years to develop. And it needs to be patented to make it harder for Microsoft to compete. :)

Robin Laing

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