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Re: OT Why is everyone so grouchy?



On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:05:21 -0500, Thomas Cameron
<thomas cameron camerontech com> wrote:
> On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 00:24 -0500, Micheal wrote:
> > Looking over the posts in the past few days, I've noticed a tone between
> > certain people on this list that was a little less than congenial.
> > While I am not the "List Police" nor am I trying to curtail anyone's
> > freedom of expression, I would like to ask that all non-Fedora related
> > flames be taken off the list and settled via private e-mail.  Yes I know
> > how to filter email, and yes I know how to block posts, but with the
> > volume of this list being as heavy at it is I can see no benefit to
> > anyone with posts like, "You're a jerk" or "You are a Bush/Kerry
> > supporter, you are a tard".  Maybe it is the US election that has got
> > everyone so jumpy.  No matter what happens Nov 2. I'll move on and get
> > over it.
> >
> > I would think the people paying by bandwith would agree.
> >
> >
> > Hugs and Kisses
> >
> > MC
> 
> It's the anonymity of the keyboard.
> 
> Example - A list member is in the store and someone walks up and asks
> "Do you know where the tomatoes are at?"  I can't imagine that list
> member would yell so everyone in the store could hear "What are you,
> STUPID?!?  Don't you know that you don't end a sentence with a
> preposition?  And besides, the store map is right up there at the front
> of the store - look there for for where the tomatoes are!  SHEESH, the
> NERVE of some people!!!"
> 
> But that same list member, cozy behind their keyboard, will publicly
> shred some poor newbie for top posting, posting in HTML, posting a
> question about something that has been asked before or some other
> alleged breach of "netiquette."  Never mind that in almost every case,
> the person posting is asking for help and is so new that they couldn't
> possibly know about "the rules."  I mean, come on - do these self-
> appointed "list police" really think that they are helping in any
> constructive way?
> 
> Let's be serious, OK?  I see so many people point to some web posting of
> "netiquette" as if it were {$your_deity's} own Word.  Please!
> Etiquette, whether on a mailing list or in person is *suggested* as best
> behavior.  It's not The Law.  Someone who breaches etiquette should
> either be gently reminded *in private* about it or ignored.  A person
> who publicly belittles another for an etiquette breach is just as guilty
> - probably more so as they are being incredibly hypocritical.
> 
> If you don't like a posting, delete it!  If you publicly respond that it
> somehow doesn't fit your model of how life should be, you have really
> only hurt yourself - you are wasting your time, your bandwidth, and your
> frustration.  You're not helping anyone really.  If you flame the poor
> poster, you're actually damaging the community.
> 
> It's sad, really.  Behavior a list member would never engage in in
> person seems to be the norm in this forum.  I first started dealing with
> Linux back in 1995, and I used Usenet pretty heavily.  I had to, I was
> as rank a newbie as anyone!  I really loved the sense of community and
> helpfulness I found in the various comp.os.linux.* newsgroups.  It's one
> of the main things that drew me into the Linux community.  Now when I
> see a member's post begin with self deprecation like "I'm just a newbie,
> please don't flame me for asking this" it really makes me sad.  They've
> seen so many people take beatings that they come in like a scared puppy
> and roll over on their backs hoping not to get smacked around.  Is that
> really how you want people to think of the Linux community?  "I better
> prostrate myself in front of them so they won't embarrass me publicly."
> That's just wrong.  If you are on this list out of a sense of service to
> the community, I applaud you.  I encourage you to be of service to all,
> not just the ones who format their messages in the way you like.  If you
> are on this list to prove that your geek weenie is somehow bigger than
> everyone else's, please go somewhere else or at least spare us from your
> ego.
> 
> I know how easy it is to fall into this aggressive/confrontational
> behavior - I've done it myself.  But I've taken a long hard look at
> myself and I don't like it when I act that way.  I'm going to do better.
> I wonder if anyone else who regularly engages in this kind of bad
> behavior will try.
> 
> Someone on the list (I think) recently quoted Thumper's mom from the
> movie Bambi.  I think it's completely appropriate:  "If you can't say
> something nice... don't say nothing at all."
> 
> Now let's please get back to helping each other with Fedora issues, not
> flaming each other over everything else, OK?
> 
> Thomas
> 
I don't agree, if someone comes up to me in the store and ask ""Do you
know where the tomatoes are at?" I would say " go look at the store
map up front. I don't work here.".
It's the way you answered the question, not whether or not you should
chastise the questioner.
However, if someone comes up to me in the store and says "Man, do you
think my girl friend is really a tramp?." that will require a totally
different reaction. So relevance does come into play here as well, and
if he said that in Latin, I will have to ask him say it again in
English before I can tell him to go find a support group, and a
grocery store is not a proper place to look for comfort. The same
thing applies to this list, you don't just post anything you feel like
in any format you like, stay on topic and in text format at the bottom
of every thread, it is too much to ask? just common sense.


Yang


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