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Re: OT Why is everyone so grouchy?

What can I say... Well said! I hope that people read this and take it to heart. Now, back to work for me...

Thomas Cameron wrote:

On Fri, 2004-10-22 at 00:24 -0500, Micheal wrote:

Looking over the posts in the past few days, I've noticed a tone between
certain people on this list that was a little less than congenial. While I am not the "List Police" nor am I trying to curtail anyone's
freedom of expression, I would like to ask that all non-Fedora related
flames be taken off the list and settled via private e-mail. Yes I know
how to filter email, and yes I know how to block posts, but with the
volume of this list being as heavy at it is I can see no benefit to
anyone with posts like, "You're a jerk" or "You are a Bush/Kerry
supporter, you are a tard". Maybe it is the US election that has got
everyone so jumpy. No matter what happens Nov 2. I'll move on and get
over it.

I would think the people paying by bandwith would agree.

Hugs and Kisses


It's the anonymity of the keyboard.

Example - A list member is in the store and someone walks up and asks
"Do you know where the tomatoes are at?"  I can't imagine that list
member would yell so everyone in the store could hear "What are you,
STUPID?!?  Don't you know that you don't end a sentence with a
preposition?  And besides, the store map is right up there at the front
of the store - look there for for where the tomatoes are!  SHEESH, the
NERVE of some people!!!"

But that same list member, cozy behind their keyboard, will publicly
shred some poor newbie for top posting, posting in HTML, posting a
question about something that has been asked before or some other
alleged breach of "netiquette."  Never mind that in almost every case,
the person posting is asking for help and is so new that they couldn't
possibly know about "the rules."  I mean, come on - do these self-
appointed "list police" really think that they are helping in any
constructive way?

Let's be serious, OK?  I see so many people point to some web posting of
"netiquette" as if it were {$your_deity's} own Word.  Please!
Etiquette, whether on a mailing list or in person is *suggested* as best
behavior.  It's not The Law.  Someone who breaches etiquette should
either be gently reminded *in private* about it or ignored.  A person
who publicly belittles another for an etiquette breach is just as guilty
- probably more so as they are being incredibly hypocritical.

If you don't like a posting, delete it!  If you publicly respond that it
somehow doesn't fit your model of how life should be, you have really
only hurt yourself - you are wasting your time, your bandwidth, and your
frustration.  You're not helping anyone really.  If you flame the poor
poster, you're actually damaging the community.

It's sad, really.  Behavior a list member would never engage in in
person seems to be the norm in this forum.  I first started dealing with
Linux back in 1995, and I used Usenet pretty heavily.  I had to, I was
as rank a newbie as anyone!  I really loved the sense of community and
helpfulness I found in the various comp.os.linux.* newsgroups.  It's one
of the main things that drew me into the Linux community.  Now when I
see a member's post begin with self deprecation like "I'm just a newbie,
please don't flame me for asking this" it really makes me sad.  They've
seen so many people take beatings that they come in like a scared puppy
and roll over on their backs hoping not to get smacked around.  Is that
really how you want people to think of the Linux community?  "I better
prostrate myself in front of them so they won't embarrass me publicly."
That's just wrong.  If you are on this list out of a sense of service to
the community, I applaud you.  I encourage you to be of service to all,
not just the ones who format their messages in the way you like.  If you
are on this list to prove that your geek weenie is somehow bigger than
everyone else's, please go somewhere else or at least spare us from your

I know how easy it is to fall into this aggressive/confrontational
behavior - I've done it myself.  But I've taken a long hard look at
myself and I don't like it when I act that way.  I'm going to do better.
I wonder if anyone else who regularly engages in this kind of bad
behavior will try.

Someone on the list (I think) recently quoted Thumper's mom from the
movie Bambi.  I think it's completely appropriate:  "If you can't say
something nice... don't say nothing at all."

Now let's please get back to helping each other with Fedora issues, not
flaming each other over everything else, OK?



/"...chance favours the prepared mind" Louis Pasteur/

/"One crowded hour of glorious life /
/is worth more than an a lifetime without a name" Thomas Mordaunt/

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