Attn : Dave Jones Re: I just want one more option in the FC Kernels (Dave Jones)

[Les Mikesell]

On Fri, 2005-04-08 at 11:52, Robert Locke wrote:

> But Les, how long does a Fedora release last?  We're talking at most a
> ten month window here, where you and I are upgrading to the next release
> every four to six months.

Better questions are "how long should you use a fedora release" and
"should you start using it on release day or wait for the first
round of updates".  My first post in this thread was in response to a
complaint about people continuing to report bugs that are already
fixed.  Chances are good that many of those people didn't install on
release day, and if the updates had been rolled into the distribution
they not only wouldn't be reporting the bugs but they wouldn't have
had them at all.

> After the ten months, if the Fedora Legacy
> Project wants to roll a new ISO, that would be up to that project, but I
> don't think that's the point of the Fedora Project itself. 

By that time fedora has rolled out a whole new set of fresh bugs.  You
can't avoid bugs by waiting for the next release of fedora (and again,
I have no complaints about the bugs being there in the first place).

> The goals
> for this project are different than they were for the RHL product.

But the fedora project only needs *one* correct bug report per bug
to accomplish their goal.  They don't need to continue delivering that
same bug to everyone else and keep getting annoying bug reports after
it has been fixed. 

> Most of us in the Fedora Community are here for one of two reasons:
> 
> 1) Bleeding edge of the Red Hat world

Whether anyone wants to admit it or not, I'm convinced that the main
reason free software is so good today is almost entirely due to the
number of users that tried to make the old buggy stuff work starting
around the RH 4.0 release that was so easy to install that everyone
did - and some of them ended up patching things or at least reporting
bugs.  I have no complaints about pushing out new and untested software
before it is fixed because it serves a purpose.  After it is fixed,
continuing to distribute it just hurts everyone.

> 2) Free beer
> 
> Those from the "free beer" camp have to remember that this is not a
> "product" and while FC has been extremely "stable" for my uses, I do not
> "rely" on that "stability"....

There are other distributions.

> The point is, to roll a new set of ISO's is not just about running a
> script to create the ISO, it is also about testing it out.  This is what
> the three Test releases are geared to.  By the time the version is
> "released", "most" of the kinks have been worked out.  Once in a while,
> something is broken that is more widespread, but that goes with the
> territory.

Sorry, but we disagree there.  The updates are largely a result of
failures of the test releases to accomplish that purpose.  If there were
no updates needed this wouldn't be an issue. 

> Frankly, my participation is more to be on the bleeding edge, and I
> would much rather see the developers focusing on fixing things and
> rolling the next release than back-peddling for the "believing it's a
> product" folks.  Fortunately my perception seems to match that of the
> "powers-that-be".

Then no one should complain about continuing to get bug reports about
code that is still on the currently-available distribution.  I think
the harm from the publicly-visible bugs and complaints greatly exceeds
what would be needed to stop distributing them.

> Now having said all that, there is nothing to preclude some "community
> volunteers" from stepping up to the plate and rolling these new ISO's
> and perhaps campaigning to have them housed on one of the wonderful
> community repositories out there.
> 
> But, for my lack of money, I want the developers to keep looking
> forward...

I wouldn't want to take time away from the people adding features to
evolution, openoffice, firefox and such, but I thought others were
involved in the packaging.  And frankly, I was happy with where
unix files lived many years ago and I wouldn't mind having the people
who keep deciding to move them around to new locations spend their
time getting working programs on the CD's instead...

-- 
  Les Mikesell
   les at futuresource.com