Comments on bug 140214 - the removal of X utilities?

[Bryan Ischo]

> [snip]
>> Mike A. Harris seems unwilling to consider the needs of users with
>> respect to this issue.  He has simply decreed that these programs
>> shall no longer be in Fedora Core and gives no reason for this.
> [snip]
>> He has suggested that the X.org software will be removing these
>> programs from its core system in the future.
>
> So the reason was given, you just don't like it.

The fact that X.org may be removing these programs in the future doesn't
seem to me to be an actual reason for removing them from Fedora Core now. 
He did suggest that they may be removed but didn't give a very definite
statement that this is the reason that they are being removed from Fedora
Core.  There just doesn't seem to me to be a cause an effect here - so
X.org *may* be removing these programs at *some indefinite time* in the
future.  How is that a reason for removing them from Fedora Core's
packaging of the X.org software *now*?

>> Perhaps that is true, but why not wait
>> until *then* to remove them from Fedora Core?
>
> What will that change?

It will make these programs available to Fedora Core users now.  And at
the time that X.org decides to remove these programs from its software
base, it will then be a discussion to be had in the X.org forums, which
would be a more appropriate place to talk about it than in the Fedora Core
forums, simply because it's more appropriate for X.org to decide what
programs are available via their software distribution than it is for
Fedora Core to.

>> Why pre-emptively remove
>> them without providing for any other place to put them?
>
> Read the bug again.  The place for them would be Fedora Extras.  Now you
> just have to get one of the people that is intersted in using them
> interested in maintaining them.

If the place for them is in Fedora Extras, then why arent't they there
now?  Why remove programs without setting up the RPMs for them in Fedora
Extras?  It doesn't seem to make alot of sense to remove programs without
first ensuring that they have a place in their new more appropriate
location.

Won't it be harder to maintain a separate package for these programs
because they are an intrinsic part of the build process for the very large
X.org system?  I admit that I am no expert on X.org software or on
Fedora's packaging process but the last time I looked at this I concluded
that these programs are very embedded in the X.org software framework and
to make a separate package for them may be difficult for that reason.  For
example, would the source rpm be the entire X.org distribution, and would
you have to compile the whole thing just to get these handful of small
programs out of it?

> [snip random personal attacks]

I apologize if what I wrote seemed like personal attacks.  If you read my
message carefully I believe that you will see that I stated only facts,
and my interpretations of these facts.  I made no judgements about the
character of Mike A. Harris or comments about his person.  I simply made
comments about his decisions and his actions with respect to this bug.  As
you can plainly see my comments are flavored a bit by my personal
frustration with this issue - it feels very much like a bureaucratic sort
of situation, or more likely autocratic - but still, I made no personal
attacks towards Mike A. Harris that I am aware of.  Also I refer to him as
Mike A. Harris because honestly I have no idea how he prefers to be called
as I have never met him.  That is the name that is present in the bug
report.

Thank you for your comments though.  I will try to adopt a more
conciliatory tone in future.

Best wishes,
Bryan

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Bryan Ischo             bryan at ischo.com                          N, R, 6
New York, NY, USA       http://www.ischo.com            RedHat Linux 7.3
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