Comments on bug 140214 - the removal of X utilities?

[Giulio Sorrentino]

Bryan Ischo wrote:

>Hi all.  I'd like to ask if anyone has any comments on bugzilla bug
>140214.  This bug is in regards to the removal in Fedora Core of the X
>utility programs xbiff, xmessage, and xcalc.  Are there Fedora Core
>developers on this list who can comment?
>
>The gist of the problem is that one developer, Mike A. Harris, has decided
>to remove these programs from the xorg-x11 RPM.  He has never given any
>reason for doing so and it can only be surmised that be believes that
>these programs are superfluous, presumably because he doesn't use them.
>
>The number of users of these programs is probably not terribly large, but
>then again, the size of these programs and the difficulty in maintaining
>them is incredibly small (they have been a part of the base X system for
>about 20 years now and as far as I know there has not been a bug or
>maintaince issue with these programs in 20 years!).
>
Probably you have respond to yourself.

>Mike A. Harris seems unwilling to consider the needs of users with respect
>to this issue.  He has simply decreed that these programs shall no longer
>be in Fedora Core and gives no reason for this.  I can appreciate wanting
>to "clean up" and remove programs which are no longer useful, but these
>programs *are* useful, at least to some users, and furthermore, they add
>only literally a couple of hundred K (at most) to the distribution.
>
>He has suggested that the X.org software will be removing these programs
>from its core system in the future.  Perhaps that is true, but why not
>wait until *then* to remove them from Fedora Core?  Why pre-emptively
>remove them without providing for any other place to put them?  Why not
>create a new small optional RPM called X-old-utils or something like that?
>  
>
This should be the most sensate solution to problem.

> And why not wait until the X.org project decides to remove these programs
>to do that?  The simple fact is that it has taken MORE maintainance work
>to prematurely remove these programs, for no apparent reason, than it ever
>did to just leave them in.  And it in no way satisfies any user to have
>these programs removed nor does it improve the Fedora Core distribution.
>  
>
If nobody use them why they should increase packet's size?

>The most frustrating thing is that Mike A. Harris simply gives no reason
>for removing them, and seems to refuse to respond to user's pleas to leave
>these insignificant programs in the x11-xorg RPM.  All that is necessary
>to put these programs back in is the removal of two or three comment
>characters that Mike A. Harris added to the spec file.  That's it.  Why
>won't he do this?
>  
>
This is absolutely THE worst mode for acting...

>Are these decisions made by a collective of developers at Fedora or is it
>all the work of just one person?  If there is collective input on this,
>can I please hear some thoughts from other developers?  If it's the work
>of just one person, can I please at least hear a reasonable explanation
>from that person about why this has been done?
>  
>
I think that everyman should response on his actions when somebody asks...

>The bug has been closed as WONTFIX but I'm really hoping that the needs of
>users can be heard here and that we can get this issue sorted out.
>
>Thank you, and best wishes,
>Bryan
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Bryan Ischo             bryan at ischo.com                          N, R, 6
>New York, NY, USA       http://www.ischo.com            RedHat Linux 7.3
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  
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