WARNING:DO NOT UPGRADE TO CORE 4

[Guy Fraser]

On Mon, 2005-11-07 at 23:40 -0400, Deron Meranda wrote:
> Okay, I think the "don't install on production systems" point has been
> made loud enough.  Let's not forget that there is no magic line which
> separates production servers from playboxes.  Some uses will be in
> that gray area, where it's not quite production or mission critical,
> but it still gives you grief if it breaks.  There's a whole continuous
> range of "importance", and that's the call of the user/administrator,
> which I'm sure Steven is well aware of now.

People are supposed to use FC to help work out problems before RHEL
is updated. If they don't run it in Real World situations it does no
good to RHEL.

This whole project is about testing in the real world to make sure 
all the software is as good as possible for mainstream use so it can 
be implemented in a future version RHEL, but then you get steam 
rolled when you use it and when a problem that needs to be fixed.

> 
> Regardless, FC4 is not working for him.  He may have started the
> thread wrong by coming out claiming all of FC4 was junk, but for him
> at least, it is.  Anyway, it's safe to say that during any OS release
> upgrade there will be some systems which fail.  Fedora is certainly
> not exempt. But I've also seen upgrades of major high-priced
> proprietary Unixes fail occasionally, and certainly many other Linux
> distros also have occasional upgrade failures.  FC may be slightly
> worse than others because of it's pace, but it's not exactly fair to
> just say "go away and use something else, you should've known better".

I'll agree his subject is inflammatory. When all you ever hear 
is that everything works perfectly, except in your unusual case, 
your patience starts to run a little thin, and that's when people 
do things that would otherwise be uncharacteristic. 

> 
> What we on the Fedora list (many of whom participate in the Fedora
> process) need to do is to ignore the poster's emotional overreaction
> and get down to helping him solve the problem.

Absolutely, and I would like to add that the developers should lead 
by example, and not be the ones who drive people to desperation.

> 
> * * *
> 
> Anyway, Steven, if this is truly critical and you can't wait to figure
> this out, you may want to back up files and reinstall FC3.  There is
> no way to downgrade that I know of.  If you had partitioned your disks
> with LVM you may be able to just install a partial FC3 alongside which
> you let you run until the FC4 issues are figured out.
> 
> About the Dell systems...yes, Dell has a long history of producing
> BIOSes that are very un-Linux friendly, especially with some of the
> video drivers.  The newer Linux drivers like i810 as you've found seem
> to deal with them better on some models.  Ultimately this is most
> likely a Dell issue as they have flawed BIOSes, but as you've done
> your homework on bugzilla, it seems you have resolved that problem.
> 
> Turning off selinux was the first step for your other problems.  At
> some point you'll want to turn it back on in non-enforcing mode to see
> what would have broke before it actually does.
> 
> I don't know Majordomo (I'm a Python and hence Mailman user), but
> there should be a way to enable some sort of Perl debugging in it. 
> Perhaps if you describe what the problem actually is better.  Is it
> random or repeatable.  Does it depend on any of the inputs, or on the
> recipient addresses?  Are the mail headers intact?  Can you capture
> the messages in the sendmail queue (or are you using something other
> than sendmail?)?  If you're experienced enough, perhaps you can
> download the official Majordomo code itself and try building it anew.

I setup majordomo on a RHES4 server this weekend and the SELinux is :
$/usr/sbin/getenforce
Enforcing

I downloaded the tarball from the main site then built it an installed
it.

One trick to be aware of : Majordomo like Mailman uses an suid wrapper
and sendmail won't use it unless a link is setup in /etc/smrsh.

$ cd /etc/smrsh
$ sudo ln -s /usr/lib/majordomo/wrapper wrapper

Assuming you have configured sudo, that should allow it to work.

To check for errors :

$ tail -f /var/log/maillog

Then hit the return key a few times so you can see a boundary
area in the log information, and send an email to the list.
On the command line press <ctrl>+<c>. There may be a cryptic 
error message that you can include with your request for help 
or put in Google or your other favourite search engine to see
if others have had the same problem and what was done to solve 
it.

> 
> And I think the output of strace may still have some useful information in it.
> 
> Deron Meranda

I would not be surprised if the poster did not use strace, depending 
on his level of expertise and what packages he installed, he may not 
have the program or know about it. Even if he did have it and know 
about it, he may not understand the output or know what to look for.

I may not have seen his request for help before this posting, because 
I was looking for other subjects. Sorry if I missed it and could have 
helped before Steven popped his top, but I am just another user on 
this list, and can't be expected to help everyone because the 
developers have an ego to maintain. Majordomo is not supported, 
because mailman is, so the developers will say, if you want help go 
elsewhere or do it yourself and submit it to Extras {gag}.