Some thoughts for the future

[Craig White]

On Wed, 2005-06-29 at 17:49 -0400, Tim Holmes wrote:
> 
> [Tim Holmes] 
> I would like to comment on this as well!
> 
> I have been using Fedora Core 2/3 for about 9 months now (I know --
> still a newbie) and I have run into many different challenges, (which
> have been solved -- thanks largely to this list) but I have also run
> into some observations, so this looks like an ideal time to post them --
> stream of consciousness style
> 
> 1. There is a definite need for better installation procedures.  When I
> get something that is packaged for a particular distro, it generally
> works without too much complaining. However when compiling from source,
> it is a whole different ballgame.  I spent over 20 hours trying (with
> little success) to get a satellite tracking program to run on an FC3
> box, it kept erroring out in the configure or make stages.  The errors
> messages were at best cryptic and at worst non existent. -- I finally
> gave up and abandoned a superior product for one that worked.  If it is
> the goal of linux (in general, not just fedora core) to become a
> mainstream USER operating system and hope to displace windoze, things
> must JUST WORK.  The average user will NOT spend 20 hours trying to get
> a program running that they can have in 3 minutes in windoze.
----
when was the last time you installed from source code on Windows? I
would bet it was never. This is an absurd argument.

windows users install from Windows binary installers. Most Linux
packages have a similar installer, some clearly do not. If you are faced
with compiling directly from source, you are likely going to need some
help if you don't know how to do it.
----
> 
> 2.  There needs to be better GUI options (notice I said options) for
> many tasks.  I strongly prefer yum to up2date, and earlier this week
> found a nice gui for that, but in general if you are not comfortable
> with a CLI, linux is not going to work out too well.  I teach junior
> high and high school computers, and I cannot imagine trying to teach my
> junior high typing class to use the CLI just to get to an application
> (yes, I know that icons can be created etc) however even that process
> needs to be simplified if Linux is going to make it into mainstream.
----
Install smart or wait until there is a better gui for yum.
----
> 
> 3 SAMBA -- Samba needs help badly -- Once you get it to work, it works,
> but getting it there is an oddessy that few would care to undertake.  I
> have been working on it for several months now and the best I can come
> up with is about a 7 step process to get a windows (active directory)
> user access to their home directory -- it needs to be simpler -- I know
> -- don't use active directory -- but in companies where thousands of
> dollars have been spent purchasing AD etc, that option is NOT going to
> sit well at all, especially since there is no Production Ready
> equivalent out there (that I am aware of at least)(Yes, I know that
> samba 4 is supposed to replace AD, but its not there yet)
----
samba.org has the best open source documentation ever put out. There are
mail lists for samba.org. Their 'Samba by Example' should have made it
easy.
----
> 
> My final comment -- Linux (in general, Fedora in specific) is a
> wonderful operating system.  It is great for servers and such, but it is
> the stated position of the linux community that their desire is to
> displace windows as the primary operating system.  In order to do that
> some things will need to happen,  Perhaps this thread will have the
> effect of opening more dialog on what must happen so that we can get to
> that point.
> 
> Number one thing -- STUFF HAS TO WORK -- easily and quickly -- stability
> and security take a back seat quickly when things don't work.  Even I
> find myself granting more permissions on directories than should be,
> just so things work --- its got to WORK
> 
> Ok -- enough of a rant -- please take this in the spirit in which it was
> offered -- constructive commentary and criticism in the hopes of
> building a stronger operating system
----
The biggest problem is the nexus that you think a stronger operating
system means that Linux will try to compare favorably to Windows. That
isn't the point of Linux, only the point of some who want it to be both
what Windows is and what Windows isn't.

Linux is about having the source code to modify, to inspect, to alter as
you see fit. Windows is about buying software that may or may not meet
your expectations and you never get the source code to anything. Linux
is about participating in the software development process and Windows
is about buying the hopefully mature software that works.

Rants on this list might make you feel better but they are unlikely to
develop into anything. If you want to rant to those who are involved in
the development process, the fedora-development list is a much better
place for them.

Craig